01-6-88 Agenda and PacketAGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
WEDNESDAY, JANURARY 6, 1988, 7:30 p.M.
CHANHASSEN CITY HALI, 690 COULTER DRIVE
CALL TO ORDER
OLD BUSINESS
APPROVAL OA MINUTE S
NEW BUS INESS
5. Organizational Items
1. Adoption of planningB. Election of Chairman
6. Planning Commission 19gg
ADJOURNT4ENT
Commission By-Laws
and Vice-Cha irman
Goals and Objectives.
P;U
1. lYetland Alterat.ion permit to construct a channel and boatturnaround in a Class A wetland on Lake Lucy on prop"riyzoned RR, Rural Residential and located on iot S, aio"i'2,Lake Lucy Highlands, Eric Rivkin, applicant
2. Stratford Ridge Subdivision, located at 5g30 MinnewashtaParkway on property zoned RsF, Residential Si"gi"-i".iiy,Robert pierce:
A. Subdivision of 9.04 acres into 15 single family lots
B. Conditional Use permit for a Recreational Beachlot
C. i{etland Alteration permit t.o construct a public streetwithin a Class B wetland and for construction within 200feet of a Class B wetland
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Variance to the Sign Ordinance to allow a 12 square foot on_site direcrional sign "" p;;;;.ay lJnea rop, rndusrrialoffice park Disrrici and iocutea'.1-1901I Lake Drive Easr,Nordquist Signs ( DataServ ) .
4. CondiEional Use permit to receive a conditional use permit toexpand the public Works Building on property zoned IOp,Industrial Office park and loca[ea .t fSgf park Road, CiLyof Chanhassen.
CITY OF
EHAIIH[SSEN
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATB: Jan. 6, 1988
C.C. DA[E: ilan.25, 1988
CASE NO: 87-1 WAP
Prepared by: Olsen/v
Fz
C)J(LL
t(o
hJF
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PROPOSAL:
: t, /z '/tl /l 7
APPLICANT:
To Construcin a C1ass
Channel and Boat Turna round
e tIa nd
ta
AW
Eric Rivkin
5525 Conifer TrailMinnetonka, MN 55345
!.,.--
L:.
.'t.:
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONTNG
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SEWER:
19 90 LAND USE PLAN:
RR, Rural Res idential
10.3 acres
N-
s-
E-
$r-
Lucv
Lucy
RR; Lake
Lake Lucy
RR; Lake
RR; Lake
Hi ghlands
Highlands
single family
r es id.encesingle fami Iyresidence
Lucy Higrhlands vacant
Not available to the site
A major portion of the site is a class Awetland and contains marsh grass.
Residential, Low Density & parks,/Open Spac
LOCAIION: Lot 5, Lake Lucy Highlands
*J 16, 1_iz _
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PEYSICAL CEARAC. :
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The wetland protection Regulat.ions require a wetland alterationpermit for the creation of ponds, doc[s, walkways or boardwalksin a class A wetland. The iegulations also .eqtir. . f.i^il t",any dredging or digging in a class A wetrand r iittactrmei:t *ii-
The Wetland protection Regulations allow dredging only when itwill not have an adverse effect on the ecologicai "na-hyliorogi-cal characteristics of the wetland. Section 2, O."agi;g----Regulations, Iimit dredging as follous:
Rivkin Wetland Alterat ionJanuary 6, l-988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
It shall be located as
It shaIl noL adversely
t.o minimi ze
change water
of the dredged area shallfor the proposed action.
the impact on vegetation.
f1ow.
be limited to the minimurn
wat e r fowlis deter-
wa terfowl
A
B
c The size
requi red
D Disposal of the dredgedwetland district unlessalteration permit.
E
F
material is prohibited ieithin thespecifically authorized in the wetland
any dredged material sha1I include proper erosionnutrient retention measures.
Disposal ofcontrol and
REFERRAL A GENCIES
U. S. Fish and Wildlife
SoiI ConservaEion Service
City Engineer
DNR
watershed DistricE.
U. S. Corps of Engineers
BACKGROUND
l::::l:g :l_lly yerl?n9 area is prohibired durinsoreeorng season or fish spawning season, unless itmined by rhe City that. Eh6 wetfina is nlt usea forbreeding or fish sparvning.
Attachment #2
Attachment #3
Attachment #4
Attachment #5
Attachment #6
Attachment #7
The Pranning commission first reviewed the wetrand AlterationPermit request on February Il, l9g7 iattactrment *gl. TheCommission tabled action on the item-un[if ""r.."i .f tiilquestions that rvere brought up could be answered and until theDNR and watershed Distri;t -"1. . iecoimenaation on the issue.
The Commission feIL that the DNR and Watershed DistricE should
comment on the applicaEion prior to the City acting on the iEem.
The applicant pursued the issue reith the DNR ancl WaEershedpistrilt and his now received approval for a channel and a boat
turnaround (AtEachments #9 ).
Rivkin Wetland Alteration
rlanuary 5, 19 88
Page 3
ANALYS I S
The applicant had originally proposed a channel approximately 12
feet wiae with a I to l siae stope and a ponding area which was
approximately 6 feet deep with I 2 t9 I side slope' The DNR com-
,nlnt.a that Lhere should be minimal impact to the wetland and
that the channel should be combined with a dock walkway to reduce
;i;;-;;;.a of clredqing. rhe DNR also recommended that the pond
se-rea"..a to a 40i x 40' area and that the spoil material be
oiaced above the ordinary high water mark (955'1)' The lilatershed
5;;;;;.;-;;co.menaea tnai ctre channer shourd be dug. rast. from the
p".J-ior".ai th. 1.k" and thaE a barrier should be kept between
[t . -""""it"ct ion and Ehe lake. The watershed District also
recommended that. the site should be allowed Eo settle prior to-
;;;;;i;;-a;e barrier between the channel and the lake'
The applicant was also proposing t9 Iocate Ehe spoil material
;;;*--t.he channel witrrin'itrl wetiand area' The DNR' llatershed
oi"[ti"i, antl staff aia not approve of. this action and recom-
;;;;;-iir.E ir,e "poii-*"t".i"i'be locared ourside of the wetland
area.
The applicaot has amended the proposal for the channel antl a
oondinq area. tn. pt"J"""l is'now for a channel and a small
[;;;;;3r;;-iio,-"-a'oii"iJi^rn. uoit. rhe channel is now approxi-
mately 15 feet wide with a 2 Lo I slope to lessen erosion of the
side slopes. The p"nai"g area has beLn reduced to a 40'x 40r
area as recornmended ;;-;i.-;NR and now has a 4 foot depth and is
."r"tir.l.a rvith a 3 Lo I and a 2 to I slope'
The applicane is also proposing to remove a1l of the spoil
naterial to an area on" trii proferuy outsside of the wetland area
;;;-;a;;. ine ordinaiv nigh-waier mark' rhe applicant has also
shown where a future ionn5ction can be proviiled to Lot 4, the
p..p"tiv-:""i to th" east of the proposed site' The applicant
i."'proirii.d a letter from this property owner sEaEing thaE
should he ever want ;ccess to Lake tucy that he would get it
t'ti""gt itt. existing channet ?lq.n"t-Ptgpose Eo have his own
""putiu" channel (eitachment *10)' Staff is recomrnending Lhat
ttE-"ppif"inu ana ct.-"*n"t of Lot 4' Lake Lucy Highlands provide
; e.;a'restriction i"quirj.ng Lot 4 to use the proposed channel on
Lot 5 ralher tshan "ppiving io. " "up.rate connect.ion to Lake Lucy.
Asstatedbefore,theDNRandtheWatershedDistricthavegiven
approval for the cuiient proposal' The DNR granted the permit
Rivkin Wetland Alterat ion
January 5, 1988
Page 4
aith Ehe following conditions:
I The permittee shal1 comply with a1l ru1es, regulations,requirements or standards of the Minnesota pollution ControlAgency and other applicable federal, state or locaI agencies.
Permittee sha1l ensure that the contractor has received andthoroughly understands all conditions of this permit.
Future maintenance excavation of this project shall notexceed the dimensions herein authorizei. prior to cornmencingany maintenance excavation, permittee shall advise theDepartment of Natural Resourles (DNR) in writing of thevolume of material to be removed, the manner of removal, andthe- spoil disposal site(s) proposed. Maintenance "*"i"itio"shal1 not be corunenced unLil pirmittee receives DNR ;;;;;;;i.
Excavat.ed materials sha11. not be deposited or stored alongside the protected water in . ^.nn"i wtrere tne materials canbe redeposited into the proE.ecE..a ,riLei-OV reasonableexpect.ed high water or st.orm runof f .
When feasible and oracticalr excavation shalI be conductedfrom landward areas to the protecCeJ-water and breakthroughshaIl occur a. the last prait.i.ur *"^""1. prior to finalbreakthrough, any and ati uquii^"nf-"iiir u. siruared so rhar
;:,t..*:i:i:o "r the breakth,;";h-p;i;i, facirirarins equip_
Permittee shaIl comoly--r.vith the conditions of the Rileypursarory aruff crelk'wateistrei ;i;;i"; as set forrh intheir lerrer dated october z,-is8il--iiJcificatty:
a. The District will require that all work undertaken in thelake be complered -duii n9 ctre-is87lr;aa winter monthsbeE.ween -the .oeriod of oecemUei- i, tg to March 1, l9gg.Work undertaken dur-ing ctris perioa-,ri.f .i.n:.*i;; a;.----.potential of a problem, sedimeniiti"n, rr"^ J",r"iof ingrtrithin t.he lake.
2
3
4
5
6.
b At the -toe of.slope where excavat.ed material is to bespoiled, erosion control *.""o..", -"iii'r.n"" , and,/orstaked hay bales reinforced with snow-ience, must beinstalled. If silt fence is "s"a, tfre-iot.toEr flap mustbe buried and t.he rnaximum allowabie =tu.ing UetweEn"po.tsif 4 ,-'oot on center- AII posts ,nuit [e-either 2u x 2upine, hardwood, or stell flnce posts. If hay Uates areused, a1I bales must be. staked,in place and reinforced onthe downstream side with snow fencl .
A11
and be restored with seedblanket within two
c areas altered, spoil area, mustdisked mulch, sod or wood fiber
Rivkin Wetland Alteration
January 5, 1988
Page 5
weeks from the completion of construction or no laterthan June I, 1988.
The District must be notified in writing a minirnum of 48hours prior to t.he commencement of construction.
Planning staff visite<i the site with Dr. Rockwell since the
Planning Commission first reviewed the application. Dr.
Rockwell staE.ed that iL was a well preserved wetland that provi-
des refuge, forage and breeCing habitat for a variety of fish,
birds and marunals. She stated that it was a irreplaceable and
non-renewable natural resource. Iler commencs on the proposed
alteration r,rere to avoid or at least minimize any adverse impacts
to the wetland. She suggested that the applicant construct a
boardwalk and a floating seasonal dock for access raLher than
dredging out a channel.
The intent of the wetland Ordinance is to preserve the wetlands
or to at least minimize impacts on wetlands as part of develop-
, staff recommended
d instead recomrnendedprovide the applicant
as been consistent in
n option for access to
ing channels to be
that a boardwalk has
s installed it a1lo',rs
neath it and it does
t has been proven that
cutEing of the vegeta-
been designated as a
S UMMARY
d
ment in the city. In the initial proposal
that the channel and the pond be denied an
that a boardwalk be installed which would
access to Lake Lucy. Staff and the city h
recommending and approving boardwalks as a
lakes through wetlands rather than permitt
dredged through the wetland. Staff feels
less impact to tne hretland since once it i
the wetland Eo revegetate around and under
not require on-going maintenance. AIso, i
alteraiion uo wetlands such as dredging or
tion promotses purple loosestrife which has
noxious weed and can destroy a wetland'
The applicant staEed during the public hearing in February that a
Uoarawiff would cause him iore liability than Ehe channel'
aiiachment *11 is a ietter from the City Altorney which addresses
this issue. The att;;;ey advises that Lhere is no nore liability
in having a boardwalk thin a channel' If the applicant is con-
cerned with liability he can choose to leave the property as is,
and not construct th6 channel. The applicant addresses further
issues in his letter dated June 8, 1987 (Attachment #12)'
The City Engineer reviewed the new design for the channel and
turnaroirnd ind stated that his conments from the February 5,
I987, memorandum stiII aPPIY.
Theapplicant|scurrentproposalhasmetmanyoftheinitialcon-
;;;"a';i the citsy, DNR a;d the watershed District. The pond has
been removed and the spoil material $rill not be located lrithin
the wetland. The applicant has statsed that the City must permit
him access to Lake Lucy and claims that a boardwalk is not finan-cially feasible. Staff cannot base recommendations on the costEo Ehe applicanE, but must base recommendations on the regulationsof the Zoning Ordinance. the Wetland Ordinance states thet mini-
ma1 impact to the wetland should occur when granting a hretlandalteration permit. Section 2 of the Wetland protection
legulations provides six conditions that must be met to permitdredging in a wetland (hiqhlighted under applicable regulations).With Ehe conditions established by the DNR ind City, if.ems A, B,D, E and F can be met, but Item C is not being met. Item C states"The size of the dredged area shall be limitea to the minimumrequired for the proposed action,'. The purpose of the channel isto provide the property owner with accesi to take tucy. Stafffeels that a channel is not necessary for this porpo"i and io"minimize the size of the dredged ar6a required-foi the proposedaction", a boardwalk would be more in keeping with the iiteit otEhe zoning ordinance. staff is confident thit a boardwalk willresult in less impact to the wetland at tine of installiiion anain the future Lhan a channel. The City has been consisten! inpermitting boardwalks to serve u" u.c.i" to lakes instead of chan-nels and as of this time no dredging of wetlands aaiacant io alake has occurred in Chanhassen. A boardwalk does n"i-t"".-t" U"unsightly and rhe chance of introducing or i."i."" i.g -p;;;i.
loosestrife in rhe wetland, which courd ultimateiy a6"[ioi-ir,i"viable wetland, is too great for staff to support the channel .
Rivkin Wetland Al tera t ion
January 6, 1988
Page 6
RECOMME NDAT I ON
Staff recommends themotion:Planning Commission adopt the following
TIte gity's regurations are more strict and have more control thenthe DNR and Watershed District. In order to minimize-irpi.a t"the wetland, sEaff must sti11 ...o^^"nJ -den ia1 of irr. p.IoJ""r t"construct a channel and recommends inst.ead that a U"".iriif-o,floating seasonal dock be permitted.
"The Planning commission recommends deniar of the wetlandalteration permit to construct a channel and turnaround.
The Planning Cornrrission recommends approval of a wetland.tion permit to install a boardwatk oi- seasonal dock withfollowing conditions:
altera-
Ehe
I The boardwalk shaIl be locatedto the open water of Lake Lucy.
from the edge of the wetland
2
3
Shall receive permit from the DNR.
Excavated materialswater mark ( 9 56.1) .
shall be removed above the ordinary high
Rivkin Wetland Alteration
January 6, 198 8
Page 7
4 The permit shall be issued
for the montshs of December
viding that the wetland is
tion equipment.
for a restr ictedI, through March
frozen enough Lo
period of Lime1, I988, pro-
support construc-
6
No motorized watercraft will be permitted within the eretland
( i.e. channel) .
A deed restriction will be recorded
Highlands to require sharing of the
5, Lake Lucy Highlands. "
Should the Planning Commission recommenal approval of
and boat turnarountl, staff recommends the following
1. The six conditions of Ehe DNR permit.
the city 48 hours
and shall Provideto completion of
the City Engineer.
against Lot 4, Lake LucY
proposed boardwalk on Lot
the channel
conditions:
grading and erosion
to construction on the
prior to
\^rr i tten notice
the project and
3
2
5
The applicant shall submit a detailed
control ptan for city approval prior
site.
The applicant shall submit a performance security of $2'000
to ensure proper completion of the project'
4. The apPlicant shal1 notifY
commencenent of excavation
to Ehe CitY Engineer Prior
shalt receive aPproval bY
6
7
Excavated materials sha1l
vrater inark (956-1).
be removed above the ordinarY high
turnaround shall not
from the CitY, DNR,
the dredged area
d period of time
h 1, 198E, Pro-o support construc-
FuEure maintenance of the channel and
commence prior to receiving permission
and the watershed District.
An erosion barrier shaIl be placed around
anal between Ehe construction and Ehe lake'
The permit shaLl be issued for a restricte
for the months of December I, through Marc
viding that the '.retlanai is frozen enough t
tion equipment.
No motorized watercraft wiLl be permitted within the wetland
( i.e. channel) .
8
9
A deed restriction wil-l be recorded
Highlands to require sharing of the
5, Lake LucY aighlands.
agains t. r,ot 4 , Lake
proposed channel onr0.Lucy
LoE
Rivkin Welland Alteralion
January 6, 1988
Page 8
I
2
3
3
5
6
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
L2.
13.
14.
15.
Wetland Protection Ordinance.Letter from Dr. Rockwell dated May 2, l9g1 , and August 24,1987.Letter from the Soil Conservation Service dated January 20,1987.
Memo from City Engineer dated February S, Igg7.Letter from DNR dated March 19, 19g7.Letter to DNR from glatershed District dated October 7, L9g7and minutes dated October 7, Lgg7.Letter from U.S. Corps of Engineers dated Februaty 26, Lgg7.Planning Commission minutes dated February 11, I9b7.DNR permit dated November 25, L997.Letter from lrlark Sando dated September 20, LggT .Letter from City Attorney dated December 1, I9g7.Letter from applicant. dated June g, 19g7.Application.
I ni t.ial site plan.
Revised site plan dated December 1, 19g7.
ATTACHI_{ENTS
5-23-4 Violations.
1 Penalties. Any person, f irrn, or corporation who shal1violate any of the provisions hereof shal1 be guilty ofa misderneanor and upon conviction thereof, shail be-punished by a fine not to exceed g3oo.oo or byimprisonment for not to exceed ninety (90) dais. Eachday that a violation contj-nues shal] consLitule aseparate offence.
Enforcement. In the event any building or structure iserected, constructed, altered, repaired, used,converted, rnaintained, or any shorefand is altered orused in violation of this Ordinance, the ZoningAdninistrator of the city may institute any properaction or proceeding j-n the narne of the City (a) toprevent such unLawful erection, construction,alteration, repair, conversion, naintenance or use; or(b) to restrain or abate such viol-ation.
SECTION 24. !{ETI,AND PROTECTION REGUI,ATIONS
5-24-! STATEMENT OF FINDINGS AND INTENT: Wetlands are a valuableresource. wetlands help naintain !'rater quality, serve to
rninimize problens with floodinq and erosion, serve assources of food and habitat for a vari.ety of fish andwildlife and are an integral part of the conmunj.ty'snatural l-andscape providing the aesthetic benefits of open
space and a natural- separation of land uses. It is theintent of this Ordinance to establish a program of soundstewardship through regulatj-ons that strive toward zero
degradation of the $retlands by conserving, protecting and
enhancing these environmentally sensitive resources.
5-24-4 STATEMENT OF PURPOSE:The purpose of this Ordinance is to
assure the protection of the general health, safety andwelfare of the residents and the protection of the wetland
resources of the Cj-ty, for now and in the future, throughpreservation and conservation of r^retl-ands and sound
management of development by:
Establlshment of wetland regulations.
Requiringr proper erosion control practices.
Requiring sound managenent practices that r./i1I protect,
conserve, rnaintain, enhance and improve the presentquality of r^/etlands within the comnunj-ty.
1
2
3
Requiring improvedwith its attendantvalue.
water quality in streamsincrease in recreationaL
and
use
Iakes
and
fi\-8 0-
il
E]
2
t;k
I
I
il
il
t
4
6
Protectinq andconmunity.enhancing the scenic value of the
Restricting and controlling the hamful effects of landdevelopment which adversely affect wetlands.
Reducing the need for piped stom water ihprovenents.
Preventing rapid runoff from developed areas.
Slil"li]"3rpo11ution fron sas, oit, sa1t, fertilizer,
A110wing only devel0pnent that is compatible withwetland protection ui,a "nr,i"."riitl""'t''Providingr standards for the alteration of wetlands.
Controlling develoDment outside of the wetland areasthat may be derrinental to ;;Ii";A=."= "
Prohibiting dunpinq of r^raste in hretlands.
f::Il"at"n the placement of strucrures within lrerLand
10.
Lt .
12.
13.
74.
t5.attenti.on to the functi.on of wetlands and theof urbanization upon hretlands.
5-24-3 ESTABLTs HMENT OF WETLAND AREAS:wet.l-and area shalI bes ubj ect La nds lying within aestablished herein to th e requ ]. rementsas h/ell as rest rictions andrequirements est abl i shed b y other applicable c itvord].nances and re gul ati ons The Wetland protec tionReguJ.ation shall not be cons trued to al1ow an ythingotherrrise prohibi ted in the zoning district where therrretLand area is 1 ocated. The r^retland ma p, entitled"Chanhassen Wetla nd Map,,dated May 22,1984 is hereb vadopted as prima facie ev idence of the wetland areas and anofficial co PY as on file IN the office of the Cit y CLerk.Land within the $retland area s shaLl be classified as ClassA rrletland or Class B wetland as delineated on the map.
ffi; H"ii'ii:il..fi: i:":i:n.",.city,s atenrion. rr_requiieJ-b;"i;; ii.v, .n" appricantshall provide aporonriat-e technicuf. -i iio.rution, includino:::_l?r rimited- Lo,'roposrap;-i;-;;;:;.lna soir data deemedffiff:iil ,f;: :l;"":!v- t6- aliermi;;';t.'exact wetrand,"s.,i.iio,,i"ir"ii, riio'i. ii"i.fu E"i]* l:,i"fr?I-:::.;:.r"""wetrand. rhe city ".:::il_JlSii-r;;;"":;essaryrnterpretations concerning the ,"tf.nJ-irea based upon the
Drawing
r.npact
!
!
I
-8t -
7.
8.
9.
5-24-4
2
3
4
6
7
Public works in a Class A or classenergency public works which sha11vretLand alteration permit.
B wetland except fornot require a
H
II
m
tr
H
H
H
t
Fl
h
TI
h
I
Tr
I
I
I
I
creation of ponds or dams andnatural drainage lrays or waterClass B wetland.
alterations of thecourses of a Class A or
Removal from Class A wetLand of trees or vegetationexcept hay, crops and diseased and storn daiaged treesand vegetation which shall not require a r,retlandalterati.on permit.
5
9
Docks, walkways and boardwalks, within a CLass A or Bwetland.
Development in any Classof a Cl,ass A wetland whic
$ratershed.
etland or within 200 feets within the $retIand, s
AWhi
Septic or soil absor6ition systerns in a class B wetland.
Sedimentati,on basi-ns l-n a Class B wetland.
l-1. Digging, dredging, f i1Iing in a Class A or B r,/etLand.
l-2. Advertising signs in a Class A or B wetland.
5-24-A WETI,AND ALTERATION PERMIT GUIDELINES:No wetlands the Councilal-terat Lon perml t shalI be ISSUe d unlesdetermines that the proposed developnent complies with thefollowing guidelines, as well as the intent -nd purpose ofthis Ordinance. In reviewing wetland aLteration proposalsreference shall be nade to United States Department ofAgricuLture Soi-l Conserwation Service under Runoff, Erosionand Sedinent control- Handbook and Technical FieLd Guide.If the City CounciL detennj.nes that the requiredcalculations in a particular instance are needlesslyburdensome because of the area and nature of a proposa-I,, it
rnay agree to a substitute analysj,s.
-83-
hstal-ling or replacing drain tile or ditches in aClass A wetland. Repairing existing drain ti1e, in aClass A wetland if the property has not been in activeagricultural use during the 12 months preceding theenactment of this Ordinance.
10. Any structure in a Class A or B wetland except formj.nor expansion and additions to single fanily detacheddwellings existing on the date this Ordinance is
enacted which shal-I not require a $retland alterationpermit.
5-24-5 PROHIBT TED USES IN CLASS A WETLANDS The following usesare prohib f ted in C lass A wetl ands:
1 Disposal of waste rnaterial including, but not limitedto, ser4rage, denolition g.oriJ,-rrlr;;a";; and toxicsubstances, and arl waste tnii.;;;;;-;;..rty bedr-sposed of at a solid waste 9irp.="f..lite or into aser,/age disposal- system or sanitai|-;r;;.
sposal sites,e transfer or :]:9?: ash.disposat sites,orsposal sites.
Septic or soi-1 absorption systens.
Solid waste dihazardous wast
Sedinentation basins
Open storag.e .
Aninal feedlots.
for construction proj ects.
of the genus Lythrum.
of all sizes and
DS: The foJ.lowing uses
The
areasues a wetlan d
3,
4.
5.
6.
7.
o-
The planting of any species
9Y::.!l:" of notorized crafrctass i fications .
5-24-6 PROHTBTT ED USES rNc B WETL,ANare prohib ted i n clasa B wetl,ands :
I
1 DisposaL of r^raste materiaL including, but not Lirnited5ft=iix33i; s;I":ii'-:r 9"bri;;-;;;#4";: and roxicdisposed "i il-"*ijrs/aste that wourd nonnally besewise ai=polir-si:i:fi ]:"::.ig:;=::,::t"-"i iit" u
SoIid waste disposat^sites, sludge ash disposal sites,nazardous waste transter or disposal sites.
Aninal feedlots.
5-24-7 CTTVIT rES RE UIRING A I{ETLAND ALTERAT ro N PERMTT:fol l owi ng activit es are proh ib ited ].n the wetl,and
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indicat ed unless the City Council is
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alterat ion pernit a1I owrng the activ itv:
Scientific research projects in a class A or cLass BwetLand which aLter ttre- wetfanJ
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wetland nap, the definition of ,,$ret1ands,, contained hereinand the intent and purpose of this Ordj.nance.
2.
2.
The planting of any species of the genus Lythrun.
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1 FiIling. A mininum anount of-fiIIing will be allowedwhen necessary for the use "r pi"p.ity]'out only whenit r^ri11 nor have a net adver="';;;;;;,.1pon theecorogical and hvdrologicar--r,ali.IIiilIi"= of therretrand. rn det!nnin_i;;-i!"#;;-I"iijil=.o deveropmenrwiLl have a net adverse effect ""
-tf,"-EJ"rogical
andhydrologicaL characteristics-or-iirJ' ieiia.,a, tir"council sharl consider, but "ot iirri-iis considerationto, the following factors:
A. Any filling shall not- cause total naturaL floodstorage capacitv of the wetranJ-[o"iirt t"tor, o,fall below furtier, ttre proi eci"J-riirr*" of run_offfron the vratershed g""".ii"6-ry-; ;:; inch rainfarlin 24 hours. Since the totat iir"""['"t fii,ling whichcan be pemitted is linited, ipp".tiJ"*"nt of fiLlopportunities for other prope.[i"= -"U"tting thehretland shal1 be consideied'.
Any filling shall norstripping capacity ofto an extent that islake or stream.
cause total naturaL nutrientthe wetfand to be diminlsheddetrinental to any area river,
Only fill free of chemica.Lwastes may be used.
pollutants and organic
iilllls shatl be carried out so as ro minimize ther.npact on vegetation,
Filling in wetland areas wil-l_ not be permittedduring sraterfor,rl breeding season or fisn spawningseason, unLess it is_determined by tire cit| tnii.trrewetland is not used for waterfowl'b.""ai"g of fishspawning.
Dredging wil,1 be al,Iowed only when it r^ri11a net adverse effect on the ec;Ioqi;ai-andcal characteristics of the $retl;;;;:-;.loginq,wed, sha1l be linited as follows:
2. Dredgin g.not have
hydrol ogi
when aIIo
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A. It sha1l be located as to mininize the inpactvegetation.
B. It shall not adversely change lrater f1ohr.
7+The. size of the dredged
m j.nirnurn required for the
on
area shal-I be l-imited to theproposed action.
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D Disposal of the dredged material is prohibitedwj.thin the wer.l,and ai=t.i"i-""r"=i-"|"Iiricatt yauthorized in the wetland arr;;;ai";'pJi.it.
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Disposal of any dredgedproper erosion control,
measures.
material sha]l includeand nutrient retention
D.:dSl.rS- in any wetland area is prohibited duringwaterfow] breedincr season or fisir .;;;;i"g season,unress it is deteimined by- tt "-iitv'tirui tn. r.{etlandis not used for r^raterfowl b.-"ai"q'"."iisn spawninq.
3. Dischar ges.
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A. SoiL loss fron a construction site any part of whichis in a wetland or witrrin-io; ;;;; I .n. $retlandthat is within the r{etland *"t;;;;"; shaLl notexceed a rate of nore than 2 a;;--;;. acre per year.
B. Projected soil loss from a completed constructionproject shall not exceed 0.5 t;;;-;;r year if anypart of it is in a wetLand ".-rittrii'2oo feet of ar^retland that is within tir. ""tii"i watersned.
ffitfrEi#r6EE' .iii:iillu ili:fi "i"u jl"JliHli." j"..the naturaL volune or runori miv-il"'.irlred whennecessary for use of ^property
-lit-""iv-rhen it will nothave a net adverse "ti".i upi,.,-iir"""lirlgicar andhydrorosicat characreristic!-"r-[i""iIiiu.,or. rn nocase shalI the restrictions-on-rr]"Jri==ia out be1or,/ beexceeded. since the rotal i";;";=-;-i; iirlotr which canbe permitted is limited,
- the c".""ri""iIn considerinopernit apprication= :l"ir ""..ij"i,
-ii"fuoi..:.o., to trieI:]l:yi"g, apportionment of increased runoffopportuniry to a1r wetrana-piop"iii-iiiili" tir"surrounding wetland area.
Stonn water runoff fI"T u deveLopnent may bedirected to the werLand- "nfy ,ir"i "irJ".,of debris andsubstantially free or crrenilai--p"ti"iI"t= and sitt,?:1 glry 3r f?t9. which do ;;r ii=i;;"veseration orrncrease turbiditv- :h:?t- tfow ana-"iler overtanddrainage of runofi snarf le-en";;;.;;;:
The proposed action sha1l not cause storn waterrunoff on the wetlands-to. taxe-pi;;"-;; a rate r,rhichwould naterially exceea the natir;i-.;;".
The allowed total increased runoff, in conbinationwith the rotaL firl aLrowed,-il;ii'nji cause totarnatural flood storage capacity of the wetland tofaLl be1ow, or fall-berow r"iin"i, -iie*proi"ct"a
volume of runoff on the "n"i.
-a'""liJpfo^ w"tr.navratershed qenerated uy a s.o-ln"n-i]ili.r:, in z+hours.
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5-24-9 WETI,AND ALTE RATION PERMI T PROCEDURES :The applicant sha1lfurnl-s h 1n f orrnat IOn L f requi red by the city incl-udin g butnot lirnited to, a sit e p1an,topographic dita andhydrological data for the rev i,ew of a hretland alterationpermit appl j.cation. A wetl"and alteration permit shall notbe issued lrithout havi ng been f j-rst revie wed by thePlanning conmission an d approved by the C ouncil followin sthe review procedures set forth for conditionaL useperrnits. The a ppl icant shal1 have the burden of provingthat the propo sed use or activit y conpl-ies with thepurposes, intent and other provisions of this Ordinance. Apennit must be approved by a 3/5 vote of the Council. Thecouncil may esta b1 ].S h reaso nable conditions which arespecially set forth in the pemit t o ensure compliance withrequt renents contained in tLis ordi nance. Such conditionsmay, anong other natters limit the s]-ze,k l-n d or characterof the proposed work, re qur.re the construction of otherstructures, require re placenent of vegetation, establishrequired rnonitoring pr ocedures and maintenance activitstage the work over ti me, require the alteration of th esite design to ensure buffering, reguire the provision of aperformance securit y. The granting of a wetLa nd alterationpermit does not abr ogate the need to obtain perrnitsreguired by other 1 oca l-, state or federal agencies.
5-24-1.0 TI],18 OF PERMIT--EXTEN SION AND RENEWALS :
The allowed total increase in runoff, in conbinationvrith the total filI a11owed, .triii -"lt -"ause totalnatural nutrient stripping i"p""iiv oi fhe wetlandto. fa!1 below, or fali-tei"w iuritl.,-ti" projectednutrient producrion from the *,h;i;-;;";iopeal $/etl-andr'ratershed .
Unless otherwj.se specified by the City Council-, apermittee -shalL begin and coirplete thl developrnentauthorized-by the permit within one year aftei the datethe Council approves the perrnit application.
The permittee shall provide written notice to the cityEngineer 24 hours prior to tne cornmencement anacompletion of the development project. No projectshal-l- be deened to have. Leen "onpieted untii aip."""aby the city Engineer after receipt of notice ofcompletion.
If the perrnittee fails to conmence work on thedeveJ-opment within the tine specifiea herein, thepennit shal-l be void. The Council.y i".,., a voidpermit at its discretion. ff the co"ircii does not renewthe perrnit, the holder of the voia perrnit may nakeoriginal application for a new p.i.ii. -
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5-24-]-T INSPECTION:
work to ba maand shall caucompletion of
5-24 -).2
5-24-L3 GENERAL D EVELOPMENT REGUI,ATIO NSfor lan ds abutt 1ng or ad I acent20o feet, the f 011o$/ing ninimunappl icable :
Mininurn 1ot area:L5, 000
setback:
5-24-14 Variance:
requ ]. relnenbe granted
app I icant
env i ronmenthat is pr
the pgr.ml:ttee nay make written application to theCouncil for an extension of the Li." io-"o.mence $rork.but onl-y if rhe permittee subrnits tn" ippii"uli;.-;;i;.
::-:l:-3?!: already established to co.rnlnc" worr<. rheapprrcatron for an extension shall state the reasonsthe perrnittee requires an extension.
The City Engineer nay cause inspection of thede periodically during the courie oi-=rlrr wo.rse. final-. inspection t6 be made iori.*iii tir"the work.
ffi ' ".X;i:l:I"'H":::::";8."f ,i,nE#'.provisions of this chapter ;ilii";"fi;i" .r,y person fronany respons ibil iry ..1::rl,::, irnposea -ry -
raw- r."i- aanu;;1"persons or propertyi nor sharL Lrre i=.iarrce of any permithereunder serve to impose any liability on the City or its::Il:::: or enpr.oyee='r". injuili-;;';;il.e" to persons orproperty.
: lrTithin lretland areasto a horizontal distancegeneral regulations are
and
of
the
may
the
the
area
IN
frost
L square feet.
Mini.murn structurehigh water mark.75 feet frorn the ordinary
septic and soil abso;pljsn systern setbacks: 2oo feetfrom ordinary high $rater mark.
n"iu;=;"9::"il:.f]""' erevatj-on: 3 feer above ordinary
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No development shall be allowed which rnay resuLtunusual road maintenance costs or utirity :,ine:=iH?", due ro sou riniia;i";; i;:iiJi.ns nj.sh
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. The.city Council nay grant a variance fromts of this section. in-addition,-"-"iIii.""based upon mitiqatit"_ .."r.It", "i;'#'il;"I'::";::"E::T:;:.:l
tar and hydrorogicar -runctioi
"i-in"-ilir".,aoposed to be aIf.ered.
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CITY OP CHANI.I.ASSEN
'/iETLA}iD EVALUATIOs' WORKSIiEET
LocArIoN f,ar- ZtVVtrrl \116+1 CF l-Y-t.U,Uvf
SUBJECT
TYPE OF HETLAIiD
t--r.i-,--ot-
C OI,LUENTS
.>
-t.-42,4 lr<rl ,,..<-.4--
it lA
(
V-Vlf\-y^ ^W. Wt-4t T frcv''€ ?. Y-t
I.ie.-*. . _:.J
l'4AY 3 i tlEZ
clrY <rF CHANHASSEN
(r{
WETIAND AITERA'IION REVIR^l
DI{R No:
IiE'IT,AND TYPES:
1. Seasonally Flooded
Basins or Flats
2. lleador,r
3. Sha1lov, ttlarsh *
4. Deep l{arsh
VreE1ATIYE TY DETC.
t/
5. Opejl Water
6. Shrub Sr,Jranp
7 . l{ooded Sr^ranp
8. Bo9
/Lr-tv,-e>L-WS[,AI!D SOIT^S:
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2
3
5
!iA.IERSHED CHARASIERI STICS:
Iocation: Iakeside
Watershed District:
fietland Size:
DrainaEe Area:
7. Drainage Flovrs to:
Streamside
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qEn Water:
Ratio:
Upland
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o a-1../-).-
Signature:
V-a- t
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te of Field Inspection:
l,lap ID No:_rtrL, Rab s
CCS&TENIS ON PROPOSED AiTERATION:
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
I,IETLAilD EVALUATION }IORKSHEET
REFERRAL AGENCY COMMENTS
C0l,tllENTS on proposed access boat channel by Eric Rivkin at Lake Lucy:
The proposed channel would destroy a substantial portion of emerqentwetland associated rvith Lake Lucy at Mr. Rivkin's'project site. -
Fishes and wildlife that find food and shelter in Lmeigent wetland oflakes include but are not limited to surface-feedi ng ducks, rails.wrens, herons, blackbirds, sunfishes, bass, northern pike, and perch.
A single access channel would probably not significantly reduce'
resources for fishes and wildlife whose reproduction depends onwetlands. H@{ever, the cumr'lative effect from more than one suchproject soon causes major losses that cannot be replaced or mitigated.
Consequently, the Fish and llildlife Service does not support
constnrction of individual access channels for shoreline property
owners. Alternatives of lesser damage to the envi ronment are (1) a
communal dock that can be used by many boat onners or (2) a public
boat launching ranp which would require a par*ing area but serye a
greater number of boaters and further reduce loss of emergent wetland
from shorel i ne developrent.
In response to your concern over pollution from treated wooden docks
or boa.rdrvalks, I am sending you copies of pp 127 - 138 of Technical
Bulletin itumber 1658-1, the Biologic and Economic Assessment of
P entach l orop henol , Inorganic Arsenicals, Creosote Volum I: l{ood
Preservatives. Available information suggests that pollution from
pressure treated wood material for docks and boardnalks is minimal.
SIGNATU RE a nt Jt C 12.c*^xl(
we
Fish and l{i ldlife Biologist
z t
*tb
Tests have also been performed to neasure As in surp sater fron the basenents
of an As-Lreated sood foundation building. lreasurements rrere taken itrEediately after
construction, after 3 months, and afLer 5 nonths. llith the exception of the initial
reading, the As concentration was belos 0.1 ppn, tbe level pernissible for discharge
to ground L,ater and for use as irrigation water (Arsenault, 1975a).
The Alberta, Canada, Occupational Health and Safety Division investigated the
AHtF and concluded (Boway and Hosern, 1975):
"From our evaluation of the literature regarding the environnental effectsof wood preservalives, we do not think Lha! its usage presetrts any signifi-cant health hazard to the occupants, tror any contaDination threat to theveSetation, soil, or the eater systen. occupational exposure, eittrer fronapplyint the preservative in the plant or froD cutting the fioished hrood,presents no problem because of the nature of the reacted chenical and thework procedure. lle support the Building Standards Braoch ruling onPreserved l{ood Foundations and, if tbe csA standards are adhered to, thenthere will be no health or ecological risk."
fn a study comissioned by the EpA, Burrus and Sargent (1976) reported that:
"ALmospheric emissions resulting from the manufacture of wood preserva-tives is coosidered netligible. Irith regard to the uses of arsenically-preserved rood, however, it is reasonabre to assume that after a sufficientperiod of tine (decades and, in some applications, centuries) deteriorationof the nood woul-d release the arsenic to the environnea!. Such releasewould be very slow since the preservative conpounds bind tightly to thewood fibers. The anount of arsenic noving inio the environient by tbisEethod is too slow to pose a pollution hazird to air, water, or soii, andat the expected slow rate of release, concentration of sorubre arsenic inadjacent soil and waLer lrould be 1ow enough for lhe arsenic to beconereadlly bound into insoluble species in soils-and sedioents."
This study rrent on to consider various alteraative poricy positions availabreto the EPA. llith respect to the alternative of banniEg u"e or lrsenicar wood pre-servatives, the reporL concluded (Burrus and Sargeat, l9Z5):
'rThis arternative was rejected because there is no apparent hearth hazardto the consumer via vaporization, leaching, or other nechanism."
Exposure to Anlmals rt polnl ol End Uge
Aninals that oay be exposed to treated rrood are usually donestic farn animalsaud peLs. Anioals would have sinilar exposure to the surfaces of the treated woodas that of hunans living in buirdings constructed of treated eood. soorc horses areprone to "cribbing" or biting off bits or chunks of sood fron their atarrs. They arenot known to ingest this uood, thus limitiag the exposure to As.
Fate ol Arsenlc ln lhe Envlronmenl
since As is an elenent' it is not a degradabre entity such as penta or creosote.rt does undergo changes in chemical identity and in varence state. Arsenic roay be
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leached froD trcated rood, or epplied as a herbicide, fungicide, insccticide' Srortth
i"[ri"to", or soil Eterilant. -ior.""r, once it reacbes thc environD€Dt, it becoDes
iniistlogui shable fron As ebich i8 preseut aeturally'
For these reesons, this sectioa nill discuse thc fate of As in the environDent
io geDuiat teros as ,"il "" that specifically applicable to tbe eood preservatives.
The fatc of As that is uaique to a particular aPP.lication or use rill bc discussed
in Voluoe II.
Arsenlc ln Alr
"llatural and hunan activities produce a persistetrt 10n-1evel conceDtration
of arsenic iD the atmosphere. Hosever, elevated conceatratioas are found
near certaitr hunan actiiities. To assess the ioPortance of the contribu-
tions of sone of these activities, it is necessary to estinate the back-
grouad concentrations for locations in which these activities are not
present.
'rThe National Air saEpliog Network (llASN) routioely Booitors suspended
particulate cooceut;atioa ievels ia urban aad non-urban areas' generally
reporting theo as qr".1"tfy corposites for statious in the nete'ork' The
conposite' wtricU poois atl- sampies collected during the quarter' assists
in ienerating sufficient material for laboratory analysis'
"Average annual arsenic coDceDtratioos for locations ranged fron 0'000 to
0.083 nicrogran/cubic meter' The average aunual concentration for all NASN
Iocations was 0.003 ni-crogran/ cubic Deter' The average anoual concentra-
tion for rhe eight ;i;"; "it"" ,"" 0.030 nicrogram/cubic neter' Ileoce '
cooceDtration" io.."-"s" tV "" o'a"t of oa8aitude for urban over rural and
another order of oagniiude-for s,elter cities over urban (Suta, 1978) .''
Arsenic in Air from Treated Wood
Arsenic in air fron the use of treated wood origioates in three rays:
the saeinB of treated ,".;; att ito' "t"uo1isn to volatile compouads ' and
entraiDneot of surface dePosits '
(1)
(3)
from
air
The Departoent of Health and Social Services for the State of Uiscoosin
(Tisconsin, 1g77) exanineJ thu .ir content io a hone buildiog plant rhich used ccA-
treated plywootl. al. .*.oii"tions varied f rom O ' OOf ng/cuUll oeter to 0 ' 003 mg/
cubic meter in tUe ureaiii"g-'o"t of off-bearer duriog the sawinS- operatiotrs' The
,,g-hour time-L,eighted """;;;'" "ii".ot."tioo for the offlbearer would be approximately
0.0015 mg/cubic meter"' we=l l below the curreot OSIIA standard' o arsenic was
detected in the breathiog "J oi oth.r workers involved $ith the sawinS operation or
tbe construction of walls treated t'ith CCA'
The NBS (Sleater and Berger, 1977) conductett air sanplin8 t€s-ts i-n basements of
homes built r,ith the arriw""-tt ". l'lood Foundations. Tbey found levels of 0.002 to
0.019 nicroSram As/cuuic neter in an exposed nasoory basenent' In hooes with
finishedbasemetrtrooms'thelevelsrrereo.oozto0.03lmicrogramAs/cubicoeterwith
an average of o.oo8 ,t. rogiir-es / cubi c meter for nooden foundationsi in nasonry base-
ments which were covered [tt f""f sas 0'008 microgran As/cubic meter'. These results
indicate that the As air levels in basements consirucLed from treated t"ood were not
staListically higher than those constructed of nasonry' The NBS values sere nuch
loeer than those reported in an earliet stu'ty by the lJat-ional Concrele ltasonry
Association (NCl'tA ) for iwo of the saoe dwellings' No background As leveIs were
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lrood treated eitb As but not uith copper aad chroniun nitht coEtribute to atDos-
pheric As particularly in a closed euvirolscnt, I{erri1l and French (1954) reportedthat Lenzites trabea lnd L. aaeDiaria gave a garlic odor rhen grown on an agar nedia
conlaiDins A8rO2, Both L. trabea and L. aacpiaria ara rrood-rottiag fungi comonlyZJ
found in wooden buildings. Tbe nethods ueed iD this 6tudy could not detect any
evolved areenicals. Altbouth the forEatioD of alkylarsioes froo A8 in treated r,oodis theoretically possible, the presence of copper aad/or chrooiuo ia the preserva-tive Prevents tbe reactioa by controllinS, the nicroorganj.sn capable of tbis netaboli.c
conversion,
Arsenlc ln Alr lrom Pestlclde Appllcaflon
oBry tl,o studies have beeo found rerative to As ia air aB a resurt of pesticideusage. one involved lead ar8enate spraying on apples and the otber in air around acotton giB after the cottoB was defoliated or desiccated t,itb erseoicals.
. . NeaJ, et al. (I94f) reported As air coaceotrations for a nuober of operationsduring the use of lead arseuate in apple orchards (Table 45).
Table 45 . --Concentratioo of arsenic in air
Q>eration Average Range
mR As/n3
t8,500
r66, 700
1 ,400
800
8,900
100-600
50
200-110,700
48,600-251,200
400-4, 800
100-3,200
2,500-19,000
20-l,900
30-80
A side
Appl i cations
Iead arsenate
exists.
range of air concentratioos is evident depending on the operation.of 30 to 90 pounds As/acte/yr were applied during this study. Sinceis no longer used oo apples, this source of contanination no longer
129
reported by ICMA 8nd thus their aa.Iysis oight be in error (Sleater and Bcrger,
1977).
llixing i.nsecticide
Burning contaiDers
Spraying orchard
Thianiag fruit
Picking fruit
Duqring fruit
Sorting and packiog
Seasonal variation of atmospheric As in Texas rras reported during a 3-yearperiod as air concentrations ranged fron 0.001 mg/cubic oiter to o.ogs ng/cuuicmeter (Attrep, et al., 1975). concentrations were elevated from septernter roEebruary, a period when cotton is ginned. The As found is a result of using arsenicacid desiccant or cacodylic acid, an organic arsenical defoliant. Average aEbientair As cont.ent was 0.018 mg/cubic neter during this 3-year period. It r,ras estinaLed
t,
2.5 oicrograns / cubic Deter at the property Iine and dropped to 0.26 to
1.46 micrograns,/ cub ic neter at a distance of 21000 feet. Values continued to drop
to 0.02 to 0.13 ni c rograos,/ cubic meter at 8 niles fron the snelter (Nelsoo, 1977).
that 116 grane of arsenic areof cotton. "
released duriag the ginniag on one bale (500 pouads)
Burning of cottoa trash froo 8 gin iB also a source of at'ospheric Ae (HEU,1967). At a distaDce of 46 to 9l n dorosind froD a uest Texas cotton gin, conceotra-tions of 0.600 to 141.0 E8/cubic Eeter eerc detected. Arseric eoissiJns fron inciD-cration, however, sere aot reported. rn 1956, 371 of the gias incinerated theirtrash. ,Adverse cffects on trees aDd vegetatioo in areas dornsiad froo cottoD ginrere observed." Texas Air Quality Coatrol Board regulstions Bince 1965 have chanledthese levels since buroiag is by peroit oaly in reEote, noo-populated areas,
Arsenlc in Air from Smelters
and Mining Operations
Air As levels have usually been highest in comuaities where soelters arelocated. During the refiaing of ore (copper, lead, zinc, or gold), beat deconposesthe oioerals aad volatile AsrO, is eeitted. Ihe arsenical gases are cooled, con-
densed, and refined. The quantitiee of As in aoa-ferrous ores vary. tJestern ores
generally are highest in As. The arsenical conceDtrates after smeltiog nay be sent
to the ASARCo soelter at TacoEa, Ilash., wbere they are refined further.
Air concentrati.ons in aud around the Tacona snelters have been reported by a
nuober of researchers (UcClannan and Rossano, 1975; Nelson, 1977; I{agoer, 1976;
and Iilhan and Strong, 1974). toathly averaSes during 1975 ranged from 0.5 to
Arsenic air levels within the soelter are a fuoction of the ore being processed.
The higher the As content in the ore, the higher the As in the smelter air (l{agner,
1976). Values raaged fron <l,O microgran/cubic Deter for a snelter processing 0.003X
As ore to 130 nicrograms/cubic neter for a srnelter processing l! As ore.
Arsenic can be re-entraitred itrto the atoosPhere fron traffic traveling on
uapaved roads (McClanaao aod Rossano, 1975)r but the levels are about otre/tenth those
present from the snelter operation itself.
It has beea calculated that the ASARCO smelter in Tacona has eoitted 200 tons
AsrO, per year (Uilhan and StronS, 1974) altbough levels should decrease as pollu-
tion controls are upgraded under EPA guidelines.
Atmospheric As is lorer at other snelters. Anaconda, l{oat., had As levels of
0.18 to 2.5 mi crograms/ cubi c meter (l{agner, 1916) and averages <0.5 microgran/cubic
oeter. A lead smelter in El Paso, Tex., had quarterly averages of 1.40 nicrograns/
cubic neter iL 7974 (HEU, f958). A Utah snelter had aurbient air levels for 0 to
12 ppm As depending on sarpling tine (tJullstein and Snyder, 1971).
Arsenic in Air from Coal-Fired Plants
Several studies have exanined the oass balance of As in coal-fired stean plants
and the resulting losses. Highest concentrations of As were found in the precipi-
tator (Bolton, et al., 1973; and Lyon and Elrery, 1975). Hoeever, there vas a loss of
52 to 6tt7, of the As indicatiog foroation of a volatile gas vhich escaped the precipi-
tator. CouLant, et a1. (f975) likewise fouad As distribution tbrouth the conbustion
130
'i
systeD as a fuDction of teEperature. They coacluded that "although lead anddisplay characleristics of volatility in the conbustioo syste', Inly snallages of these elenents are enilted fron the stack." Arsinic is enricheostrean fly ashes (Kaakinen, et aI., 1975).
The smaller sized fly ash is nost likery to escape control measures and sirlalso contain the highest residues on a. weight/weight bisis (Natusch, et al., 1974).Sooe As night escape the power prant in tbt vapoi phase as-Asro, (riavison, et ar.,
1974). Emissions froo power plants may accouot for the higher urban air reversrecorded when corpared to air in rural areas of the country. i "*"ry of As in airand dust is presented in Table 46.
Arsenlc ln Dust
Arsenic in dust can be present froo several sources. House dusts in an areaarouad a snelter eere a'ong the highest reported in the li.terature (|tcclannan andRossano, 1975)- varues r-anged fron 77 a t,46t ppm As and rrere a function of dis-tance fron the Tacooa soerter. r{irham and strong-irsza) rikesise io,roa au"a sarpresat 2 nires froo the smelter contained 70 ppo As and increased to rrioo ppn As fron0 to 0'4 Dile fron the stack. These fiadinjs were used by the puget 'sountr air porru-tion contror Board to set an emission staidard ror ls design;;'i; ;;;r." environ-Dental contaninatioD.
House dusts in Hawaii were exaoined for As since arsenical herbicides and woodpreservatives are extensively used in Hanaii (xleomer, "t "i.,-rgisJl Resurts werecrassified according to nhether Ae had been u""a ro. teroJte contror. varues variedfroo 1'1 to 11080 ppm As but no corruratioo r"" rouoa beteee' revers in the dust aodAs treatEent for terDite coatrol.
House dusts in ccA-treated soodeo foundation _buildinSs rrith exposed prywood hadrevers up Lo r,267 ppm As."nd "".."gud izg pp. tsr""Ler and Berger, 1977). *hen thewarls had been covered, the respeciiv" ""r'"'"1 eere 53 and 20 ppm As. A hone lrith
H:;::[;:rt]: had dust revels oi 27 and 18 flo as ror ,,o"o'.'Ji
"oa covere. warls,
Atoospheric dust sarples- froo llunich, Gernany (Schraoel, et aI., 1974) revealedvariatio's eith site and month of the sar'pre i;ketr. yearry averages ranged from g.0to 53 ppo As' nonthrv varues raoged rror'r.o 1o zez pp, As. However, Eonthly trendsfor the various sanpling stationa were Dot coosistent.
- P:t sarples at four sarplins stations in Japan iadicated air concentrationsfrom 0'025 nicroSran As/cubic i"t.i to 0.t9 miciograo As/cubic oeter (t{aiuro, et ar.,1970). only two l-nonth periods ,"." "r"rio.a in the_first stuary. rn the ratter,varues ranged from 0.0r oicrograo As/cubic Eeter to 0.079 microgr"i l"/"rui" meLer inEonthry sarples from four sites take' over a year's period. The four stations werefrom areas uith different degrees or pollutioi, Alaospheric As levers did not cor-relate eith the pollution of oiher elenints at aoy given site.
Areonlc ln Wltot
- Naturarly occurring As appears in arl rater sarples as evi.deaced iu Tabre 47.rn sone cases, the As is below normar detection lrnits rhich vary according to theneLhod used' Arsenic revels are generarry quite rorr. About 4% of the anaryses inthe united states'shows As -at more than 50-ppi, the maxin,n p.r.i."iur" .oncentrationin driokiag eater (HEW, 1952).
arsenic
percent-
in down-
r3l
I
I
I
I
I
Table 45.--Arsenic in air and dust
Arsenic CoDcentration
ReferenceLoca I i Ly
Air Dust
3
United Stales:
l'laryland
trashinSton, D. C.
I:liscellaoeous
Tacoma, lJash.
U. S. general c
Hawaii
Aus Lra I ia
Czechoslovakia
England
Japan
Hexico
Russia:
Rostov
llicrogran/n As ppm As
0.005-0.012
0.02
0.0r-2.50
Aras et al. ' 1973
Aras et al. , 1973
Sullivan, 1969
llillan & Strong, 1974
ltillao & Stroog, 1974
tlcClaonan & Rossano' 1975
Iatusch et al. , 1974
Klemer g! 91. ' f gZS
Comissiouer of Public
Health, 1930
0.04r-0.078
0.012-0.055
0.005
0 .8-5. 0
58- 150
3.8-24.8
Beocko et aI. ,
Porazik et aI. '
Goulden et aI. ,
I'tamuro q! {. ,
l{anuro q! q!. ro - 012-0.19
r.o-297
14. Oe
750-3 ,800
a
r968
1956
1952
7972
1972af.
Navarrete et aI. , 1974
Bespalov et aI. , 1969
Rozetrshteio, 1969
Rozeushteiu, 1969
Schranel et al. , 1974
a DusL froo coPPer soelter.
b Dust remote from coPPer snelter'
c Fly a sb.
d Dust from cattle alipPint.
e Near porer pIant.
f Ai rbo.o..
732
I ,3OOa
7ob
77-4,641
680-r,7oo
ll-l,080
r0- r2d
3,000-5,000m from
copPer snelter
300-4,000m fron
poser Plant
Gernany
Table 47,--Arseaic in fresh r.ater
Water Arsenic Coocentration Refereoce
llicrograns/ lite r (ppb)
United States, lakes:
New York, Chautauqua
Hichigan
Superior
Wisconsiu
California, Searles
Californi.a
Florida, EchoIs
Ilorida, Hagdeleoe
Connecticu!, Linsley Pond
Cedar lake
United States, rivers:
Lis & fiopke, 19 73
SeydeI, 1972
Seydel, l9 72
Chanberlain &
Shapiro, 1969
Thite et aI. , 1953
Livingston, 1953
livingston, 1963
Branan & Foreback,
Branaa & Foreback,
CowgilI, 1974
Cowgil1, 1974
r973
1973
Graatham &
Sherrood, 1958
Goldsmith et a1. , 1972
Braman & Foreback, 1973
Eeinglass, 19 73
FairhalI, 1941
Goldblatt et al. , 1953
|rorton et al., 7975
Sandhu eL al., 1975
CreceLius et al., f975; &
Crecelius &
Carpenter, 1974
3.5-35 .6
o .5-2 .4
0.1-1.6
4.0-r17
1.5
0.21-86 .9
30-r80
0.55- r92
< 10- 140
Hillsborough
I{ithlacoochee
Fox (introduced)
Yellowstone
Narros
Providence
Seekonk
Sugar Creek ( industria I
di s cha rge)
Colurnbia
Columbia
SchuylkilI
Nen Mexico, variety
Variety
0.25
0,42
r00-6, 000
4.5
0.90
0. 75-0. 90
2.48-3.45
<10-1,100
United States, canals:
Florida
United Slates, well hrater:
California
Florida
ltinnesota (introduced)
WashiDgton
Oregon
Oregon
Georgia
10-2 ,000
0.68
r1,800-21,000
5 .0-6 .0
0.00-1,700
0.00-2, r50
0. 00-70
Uniled States, Puget Sound 1.5-1,200
133
r98 ,000-243 ,000
o. o-looa-
o. 0-2 , oooD
3 .58
1.75
2.3-2.6
1.6-r3.9
<10-20
Branan & f'oreback, 1973
Branan & Foreback, 19 73
Brown et al. , 1973
El.lis, r934
Ray & Johnson, 19 72
Ray & Johnson, 19 72
Ray & Johnson, 19 72
Durun et aI., 1971; &
9i.1der, 19 72
Onishi, 1959
SiIker, 1954
Xopp & Kroaer, 1967
Gladney & Orens, 1975
Durum et al. , 1971
Table 47.--Arseuic in fresh ea ter- -cootinued
Irater Reference
UDited States, rainwater:
Rhode I s land
l{ashington, Seattle
Bosnia, Shebreai.ca, spriag
Canada, well nater
Chi Ie
ILaly, l'lodena Province:
Grounduater
Subsurface
Japan:
Rain
Rivers (40)
Aomori Prefecture
Lakes
I{ell, Nagoya Univ.
Geroany:
Nev Zealaad, rivers:
ilaikato Riverc
lraiotapu VaIIey
Postugal
lli crograms/ l iter (ppb)
0. 82
t7
480-l,490
trace-300
4,607
0.5-r5
<2.3-7 ,500
800
3.0-5.0
<0.4-21
0.0r-r3.9
o .25-7 .7
30-3,950
0.15-t.9rl.0
r.1-54.5
800
5-I00
trace-275,000
0.0-1.0
Ray & Johnson, 19 72
Crecelius et aL. , 1975
Cuatelli & de Geraicola,
r970
Bado, 1939
Ivaocevic & Tooic, 1956
Goulden & Brooksbaok,
r97 4Ityllie, r937
Borgono & Greiber, 19 72
Kanamori & Sugawara t
1965
Kanamori & Sugawara 'r955
Noguchi & Nakagawa, 1970
Onishi, 1969
Sugavara & Kanaoori,
7964
25
I
5
5
20-
3.
3.
2.
Lancaster eL al. , 1971
Grimnett & llclntosh, 1939
Livingston, 1963
l3t
Arsenic Concetrtration
ArSentina, Cordoba,
drinking water
EIbe River
Rhine River
llai.n River
Logo Haggiore
Greece, lakes
Fornosa, uell rrater
Vivoli & Beoeventi, 1970
Clenente et al. , 1974
Onishi, 1969
Xdlle et aI. , 1971
Lieser & Neitzert, 19 76
Lieser t Ieitzert, 19 76
Onishi, 1969
Faa & Yang, 1969
r'
lJa te r Arsenic Concentration Reference
Yagnob, Daiyee Rive r,
suspended
Sseden:
Rivers
Glacial ice
Antarctica
llicrograEs/ Iiter (ppb)
100 - 300
o .2-o .4
2 .0-3 .8
0 .50-0. 75
130-l,000
0 . 0-5 ,800
20-3 ,800
30-500
Xvashnevskaya &
Shablovskaya, 1963
Ouishi, 1969
lJeiss & Bertine, 1973
ldhite et al. , 1953
l.lhire er at. , 1963
llhite et aI. , 1963
dSpring i{ater,California,
(anchatka, U.S.S.R.,
Iew Zealaod
Oil- and gas-field waters,
California, Louisiana,
Hungary
Therrm 1 waters , Itlroming,
Nevada, CaLifornia, Alaska,
Iceland
Spring vaters,e U.S
Iilyoning, Algeria,
S.R. 'Icelaod
a
b
c
d
e
Dissolved solids, <2,000 ppn.
Dissolved solids , >2,000 ppn.
High in bicarbonatel of geothermal origin.
High in bicarbonate and boroo.
Deposit travertioe.
There are sooe sites t here the arsenic Ievels are high naturally:
Searles Lake, Calif.; wells in California and Oregonl Bosnia; Canadal
Aonori Prefecture, Japan; Nes Zealand rivers, and various spriogs and thernal waters.
But for lhe Eost part, drinkin8 eater As levels are not above Lhe maxinurn allowable
Ievel of 50 ppb. Arsenic in seawater normally ranges from I to 6 ppb.
Arsenic in Water from
Wood Preservatives
The CCA pressure treatnent forces the preservative itrto the cellular structure
of tbe eood. Uithin this cell structure, the As forms very insoluble conpounds.
Factors rhich affect the penetrati.on aod retention eithio the sood rrill affect its
lea chabi 1i ty .
135
Tablc 47.--Arscni.c i.n fresh uatcr- -continued
l{hite et al. , 1963
litite et aI. , 1953
Douglas-fir, pooderosa pioe,
2 to 2.54 preservative solutioaa,
tration of the treatinS solutioo
teoperatures nor the tiDe betseeo
of As.
Leaching in saltnater is oore raPid thaa
to Ia8 behind that of copper and chronium and
the preservative fornula. Leaching increased
Dahl8ren, 1976).
The fornulation EaY affect the
with a@oDical solutioos of copper'
netal oxide to arsenic oxide ratio
than 1.25, only I to l5X was lost
1976).
aod southern yellou piae had high leschability at
but greatly rcduced Ieachability nhea the coDceB-
uas doubled (Dahlgreo, 1975). Neither dryin8
treatEent and dryiog affected the leachability
IE
is
as
fresh nater. Loss of As is shoso
related to the excess cbroDiu[ in
the salinity increased (Irviue and
Ieachability of the preservative. Wood treated
ziDc, and As lost 35 to 671 of the A6 shen the
sas less than 1.25. WheD the ratio Uas Sreater
uader a severe accelerated leachiDg test (Rakt
Tests have been oade for As leachiBg fron AiJWr as oeasured io the surp-purp
saters. Arsenault (1g75) reported ao ioitial As level of 110 ppb As in the surp pit
at the coupletioa of constiuction of a house iE Atlanta, Ga' After 3 rooDths ' the
level declined to 80 ppb aod io another 3 nonths, to 20 ppb As'
A nore receut examinatioo of Uater fron surp Pusps in AHII basements was nade
in Rapid city' S. p"t.,ln 1978 (llcNanara, 1978) ' Twelve hones were tested' varying
i. i.'"sau oi lir" tue 'uaseients 'were coEpleted (3 to 60 nonths). In hooes t,ith Bo
sunp purps oPeratinS .oJ-aJ.i" in the pit, values ranged froD 5 to 22 ppb As' Io
houses which had suop p-T's operatiog tid '"t" being rived io' residue levels sere
<1 to l0 ppb As.
Arsenic in Water from Pesticide
Applications
Several episodes of As appearing itr water as a result of Pesticide contaBioatioa
or application have appeared in the literature over the years'
Feioglass (1973) rePorted on 13 people-who were erposed to r,ell eater t'hich uas
contaninated ty "o "t"Joi"al grassh-opp-er bait' The bait had been stored on the
ground and the rreLl"" -J.i
11.a" throug-t' a layer contaiDing the bait' -The weII water
had levels of llr8oO to iiroOo ppu As' o peroaneot adverse bealth effects vere
observed.
lrater io the iiegatchee, t{ash., area cootained fron only 5 to 6 ppb As (Fairhall'
l94l), even though the soii in llashington l,as estiBated to have received as nuch as
i,oo6,ooo pouods of leJ arsenate in- a single year' l'ost of this chenical vas
applied ia the llenatchee-Yakina areas.
Sodiurn arSenite r,,as used for aquatic aeed coBtrol for many years' As a result'
As levels in sone lakes has increas-ed. Ilowever, it becones difficult-to assess alL
ioputs uhen other sources of pollution are Present' . Arsenic 1","",1" i" treated
Lake chautauqua averaged r5.r ppi As 13 years aiter trcatoe't stopped (Lis and Hopke'
1973). Arsenic cootent in satei at application ti'Ee varied from 1'100 to 14'600 ppb
As. Sodium arsenite is not used for aquatic aeed control at the Present time'
Richardson,etal.(1978)examinedrunoffUaterfromcottonfieldsafterarsenic
acia w"" appliei "t SIO r.glt". The hiShest residues were 250 ppm and were a function
of time and tillage op"i.tiorr" afte; aPPlication' Levels were reduced to 10 to
136
20 ppb sfter tso to three
gedioent fron erosion.
Arsenic in Water from lndustrial
Discharge
runoff eveats. llost of the As eaa associlted nith the
Industrial sources for As iu $ater are quite varied. llidespread los levels have
been reported in ralowater (Cawse and Peirion' 1972; Ray aod Johnson' 1972; and
Ikoanori and sugawara, 1!osi. Raia near seerters, howeverr, oay be quite hi8h.
Crecelius (1975) rePort.J
- f"t'"t" in seattle raiDwater of l7 ppb coopared to <0'l to
5.4 ppb As in areas Dot containioS sDelters'
Durping of srsenic-rich slag aatt liquid -ttischarges
iato the Puget Souad has
elevated As levels io t6" riciniiy of the ASARCO snelter at Taco,a (Crecelius and
Carpenter, 1974; and ct.".fio", tiZS)' Arseuic conteEt iD t'ater decreases rapidly
with distance from the -"r.it"i, however, eith values ranging froo 1,200 ppb As at
the snelter to I to 2 ppb 2 milee dorrnstream'
At a zinc sn€lter in Blackwell, Okla', saoples t'ere collected froo ponds'
creeks, roadside ditches, stock tanks ' public aatgJ suqnligl' and the
chickaskia River. AII samples coEtained less'than 10 ppb As (Benenati, 1974) '
Sources need not be caused by manufacturing aad processiug activitiest however '
Elevated As levels in ilrainage fron an abaodoned niDe were fouad at
Horetoo Harbor, Newfountlland (Penrose, et al', 1975)' At the point of drainage '5.3 ppb rere observed. Tbe concentrati-on -Eroppe<t rapidly -to. f PpJ ' Streans in
soutiiest England receive tlrainage fron Past oining and smeltinS of- arseoical and
associated metalliferous ores (AJton, et -al., 1975). Levels >250 ppb are found in
these streans .
An episode i.nvolving As discharge fron a rnanufacturing PIaDt occurred at
Sugar Cre& in North Caroiina in 1971. Large anounts of As nere discharged into a
seiage treatment Plant in Charlotte' N.C. llater levels of 1,100 ppb were found in
thewaterofSugarCreek.TheAswasbeingnoveddoYnstreaniaboththedissolved
and suspended state (Wilder, 1972).
Arsenic levels in Lake l{ichigan average f.6 ppb As (Seydel, 1972) and are higher
than those in Lake Superior. x16f1 lreZS) assessed the isportance of various sources
ofisPutsofAsintoLake}lichigan.IleconcludedthatiDtroducedsourcesarelikely
to be rnost inportant for As. Aerosol depositiotr is the najor source'
Lor,rAslevelsinriveri,ater!'eretheresultofusingdetergents-containiugAs
(Tanner, et aI., 1973; antl Colasaoti antl Ilopke, 1974)' Arsen-ic .levels ranged fron
5 to 51 ppn As in the detergent itself' Angino, et aI'- (1970) found that water
treated r.rith cold Iine c'ontairied As at O'4 ppb' gatei althe iBtake contained 2'5 to
3.6ppbbeforetreatnent.TbeAsingaterreturnedtotheKansasRiverafterser'rage
treaLnent ranged fron 1.5 to 2-1 ppb' Angino felt that As itr deterSents added si8-
nificant quantities of As to the river system; others have felt thaL there was little
dan8er (Pattison, 1970; and SoIliqs, 1970) '
137
I
I
Fate of Arsenlc ln Water
Ad&rpllon ,rom W!t.r
Arsenic io r.ater is quickly renoved by reaction or adsorptioa to sedioeots.
Several factors are responsible for the reooval of arsenite froE uater by lake sedi-
oents (Huang aod Liac, 1979). The adsorpti.on naxinur of the lske sedioents was
reduced seveafold after renoval of the sesquioxides (iroo and aluoj.nuo hydrous
oxides), carbonate6, and organic Eatter. SoDe adsorption still occurred after
removal, of the above naterials and nas attributed to adsorption to the exteroal sur-
faces of various clays .
ConcentratioD of As iu sater appears to be a factor iD the rate of adsorption.
At uater concentratioa of l0 ppb As, 111 nae left in the eater at 5 days, and 9l
after ll days. llhen 1,000 ppb As sere added, 451 reoaiaed in solutioa at 5 days but
ooly l7t at ll days (tioolsou, ct al., 1976).
Naturally occurriag As fron hot spriags cooceDtrates in sedinents to 300 ppn As
(Reay, f973). Areenic is noved donnriver as suspended Particulate oatter aad
deposited in the ocean.
Iodustrial arsenical uastes, likenise, nay concentrate in sedinents dounstrean
from the site of coatamination (Hilder, 1972). Levels of 35 PPm As rdere found io
stream-bed Baterials and 500 ppn oD suspeuded sedi.nents. Duriug periods of low
streae florr, Eost As iE traosported in the dissolved state and reacts rrith streaD-bed
Eaterials, thereby decreasing As levels in eater. Duriog periods of high flor,' the
sedioents are carried aloog by the sater Dovement atrd most As is moved dowBstreaD on
suspended sediDeDts. Arseaic, nhether from natural sources or hunan activity' Eoves
to the ocean ultiDately where sediEeotatioo occurs. Ferguson and Gavis (1972)
concluded that "there is uo substantial iEbalaace betweeo natural $eatherinS and
deposition of arsenic at present."
A sumary of As in sedioents is preseoLed in Table 48.
HetabolisE of As involves several reactions; naoely, oxidation, reduction, aad
Eethylation. The latter two processes are biologicalLy Dediated rrhile the oxidation
Eay or oay not be.
Arsenate, methylarsonic acid,
fresh uaters uhich had received no
additioo to the above, arseaite was
oxide) was found only in fresh water.
and dinethylarsinic acid were found in natural
As applications (Branan and Foreback, 1973). In
delected in seasater. Trimethylarsine (or the
Bacteria, fungi, aquatic plants, and/or aniuals are resPonsible for the conver-
sions of inorganic As to the organic forns. Bacteria can nethylate As both anaero-
bically (llcBride and trlolfe, 1971) and aerobically (ChaIlenger and Higginbotton,
f935). !,larine bacteria are knor.rn to reduce arsenate to arsenite under laboraLory
conditions (Johnson, 7912). Johnson and Braman (1975) "hlryothesize thaL some
member(s) of the Sargassu.ul connunit y is producinS the alkyl-arsenic" since it is oot
present ia raiftraLer and alkyl arsenicals as rrell as arsenite aod arsenate are found
in members of Lhis comuni.Ly.
138
U.trbollsm ln Wller lnd
Aqurtlc Orglnllm3
r
CARVER SOIL ANDI.. ATER CONSERVATION DISTRICT
MINNESOTA
SOIL AND WATER CONSERVATTON D|STRICTS
January 20, 1987
I,!s. Jo Ann Ol,sen, Asst. Clty planner
City of C'hanhassen Planning Department
690 coulter Drive, p. O. eox fl+T
Chanhassen, It{. 55317
2 t 9 Easl Froniag€ Road
Waconia. Minnesob SS3B7
Ierephone (612) 442.510!
Dear l,Is. oLsen:
Exclosed' find a copy of the coments provided to DNR Division of waterson Eri.c Rivkin I s appli.catlon for permit . Ttrese sa.ne comeats virl al_soapply for your revier of Planning Case No. g?-1 Eetlands Alteration forEric Rivkin,
PDN /rtl
Enc .
AN EOUAL OPPORTUN Y EMPLOYER Xl+,<at,@4| 3
CIIY OF CHANHASSEN
RECEIVED
rAr!2 !q87
CHA.I.IHASSEN PLANNING DEPT.
Sincerelv-) ^ (., i'---/ I
^i
I' G*\ \ . /t(i.-
-,Paul- D. Neumann
Conservation Teehnician
iCITY OF
EEIfrI{H[SSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE . P,O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(512) 937-1900
MEIITORANDUI{
fO: Planning Commission
FROM: cary Warren, City Engineer
DATE: February 5, 19 87
SUBJ: Wetland Alteration P3rmi t
Planning Case No. 87-1
Eric Rivkin
In general , our ir-etland protection regulations (Ordinance 47-AR)
require a very cautious review of Class A wetland activities,
such as those proposed by Mr. Rivkin; namely, the creatsion of
ponds and the digging, dredging and filling in the wetland. Ihis
is not to say that these improvements are not permitted
obviously; however, I believe tshe term improvement is the key
qualifier. I will defer to the Department of Natural Resources,
Division of Waters expertise as to speciiic impacts; however,
concerns thaL this ofiice has with the Proposed wetland altera-
tion are with the longterm usefulnsss of this pond and channel
proposal . I do not question the canoe access Ehat will be main-
tained; hovzever, I have concerns as it relates to the implied
primary purpose for this weE.land alteration; namely, "to proviCe
i secfuaea op"n *"ter habitat for qater fowl and possible
spawning entry area for fish".
J.Department of Agriculture, Soil Conservation Service, Urban
Erolion and Sediment Control Handbook, referenced in ourThe U.
Runoff
ordinance, indicates a rninimum acre surface area and 14 foot
depth and an adequate supply of good quality water is needed to
support fish. This proposal provides only 1,/10th of an acre of
surface area and a very minimum 6 fooE depth. with the pond
proposed to be roughly 300 feet inland from Lake Lucy, I antici-
pate some very stagnant water conditions would prevail in this
pond and channel area, which woulil only encourage rough bottom
fish and nutrient rich algae or weed prone grolrth, i.e. a very
stagnant condit.ion. In my opinion, this would lead to future
requests for access to Ehe site for continual dredging improve-
ments. As a resulc, I do not look Eavorably on granting this
wetland alteration permi t.
If, horvever, the Commission and Council sees fit to issue a
'.'retland alteration permit, I would recommend the following con-
ditions be incorporated:
DI6UArI"N| + -
(
o o
Planning CommissionFebruary 5, L987
Page 2
3
I
2
The pernit be issued for a restricted period of time forthe months of February and March, 19g7, providing thatthe wetland is frozen enough to support the entrince ofconstruction equipment
The applicant be required to submit an acceptable erosionand nutrient control plan for the site prior to construa_tion.
A performance surety in the amount of g2,000 be providedto the City to insure proper completion of the pioject.
STATE r
hJh!trs@TA
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
6t21296-7523 1200 l,JARlrER RoAD, ST. pAlrl,, MN 55106
March 19, 19 87
Dear I1r. Rlvkln:
PERMIT APPLICATION 87-6190, GEANNEL AND POND EXCAVATION -
LAKE LUCY, IO-7P, CITY OT CITANtsASSEN
DepartDent of Natural Resources personnel have reviewed youE Project
and have conferred lrith other interested ageDcles.
The concerns arlsing froa the review of your most recent Plan (a coPy
of whlch was received fron the City of Chanhassea on February 12,
1987) are as folLows:
Ile want you to be arrare that there is no guarantee that
stagnatioD wonrt occur in the Pond. DNR Dlvision of
Fisheries does not totally agree that the studies and
nethods of Clean-F1o Laboratorles are always effective
in controlling rreed grovth. If purple loostrife'
duckweed or filamentous algae invade, for example,
future alEernative controls may have to be by way of
cheuical treatEent (which requires a Pemit froE the
Divislon of I'lsheries).
The 1: I channel slopes appear to be loo steeP to
oaiDtaln the dimensions shown. fhe toP wldth of
excavation wlll increase dramatlcally wlth shallower
side slopes, thus havlng a more profound lEpact on the
envirotrEent. I.le request that the soils to be excavated
be analyzed (by an engineer) for slope stability so
that a Dore reallstic estiEation of channel wi-dth can
be made.
(
PHONE NO
RI
I
2
l{Bt-L. .; .aiJ
i'iAR Z 0 irET
AN EOUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
@@
fr,
FILE NO
Mr. Eric Rivkln
5525 Conifer Trail
Uinnetonka, MN 55345
CITY OF CHANHAsSEN
f
Mr. Erlc Rivkln
PER}.IIT APPLICATION 87-6190
March 19, 198 7
Page Tlro
B
3. Flnally, there stlll appears to be an issue of spo1lplacenent. MN Rules part 6115.0200 Subpart 58 statesthat redepositioD of excavated materlals into protectedwaters sha11 on1y be pernitted when it w111 iesult ln
iEpro]reEen! - of natural condltions of protected rratersfor the -pybLic benefit. Docunentation Eust be made asto the habltat _imploveBent due to spo1I redeposltiou,and must be revtewed and approved by the Area Wt1d11f;Manager. In addlrlon, the Ritey_furgatory_Bluff Creekllatershed Dlstrict and Clty of Chaatassen Eust be lnagreeEent wLth the spo11 disposal plan.
It is Ey understandins that you have a new deslgn for your proposal.lf these issues can Le addiessed "1;"; ;;- "ubn1tta1 of your aerp1an, and if the loca1 authorities t..r" io ''i,_r.tfrer
objectlons, we willproceed vith finallzing your perroit applicattoi.
Sincerely,
}fETRO REG
cc:
J25 /lkr
Bob Oberneyer
JoAnae Olsen
reau, Area tsydrologist
ION DIVISION OF WATERS
t
bw^M'^-
I
.a
Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District
Engineering Advisoc Barr Engineering Co.
7803 Gleoroy Road
Minneapolis. MN 55435
830-0555
Legal Advisor': Popham, Haik. Schnobric[ Kaufman & Doty
4344 IDS Center
Minneapolis, MN 55402
333-4800
\:
\f,
october 7, L987
Mr. Kent LokkesDoe
Regional Bydrologis t
Minnesota DepartBent of
Natural Resourceg
1200 Warner Road
St. Paul , MN 55106
MDNR Chapter 105 Work in Protected l{aters Pernit - Rivkin ProPerEy
Lake Lucy: Chanhass en
Dear Mr. Lokkesooe:
The Board of Managers of the Ril ey-Pur gat ory-B luf f creek I'Iatershed
DisErict has reviewed Ehe MDI{R chapter 105 i{ork in Protecced llaters permit
for the constructioD of boat accesa on Lake Lucy for Ehe Rivkin ProPerty io
Chanhassen.
Re
The Managers recoomend thal
Protected 'rlaters pernit for
condi. ti ons :
the I{DNR approve the Chapler
this proj ect subject to
105 Work i,nthe folloring
1.The District will require Ehat all work undertaken in the lake be
ccnpleled during the 1987-1988 $inter Eonth8 betlreen the period
of December lr 1987 to March Ir 1988. Work undertaken during
this period rill nininize the Potential of a probleo,
sediEeatation, frm deveLoping lriEhin lhe lake.
Ac the toe of slope uhere excavaEed material is to be spoiled,
erosion control oeasures, silt fence, and/or sEaked hay bal'es
reinforced sith snos fencer Eust be iostal.led. If 8i1t fence is
used, the bottm flap Eust be buried and the EexiEtE allqrable
spacing between posts if 4 fooE on center. A11 Posts oust be
eiEher 2'r x 2" pine, harduood r or Eteel fence Po8ts. If hay
,
REC=:','?f,
ocT z 3 1387
CITY OF CHANHASSEFfib*
!'lr. Kent Lokkesmoe October 7, L987
All areas altered, spoil area, Bust be restored with seeddisced nulch, sod or wood fiber blaaket lriEhitr two weeksthe completion of conatruction or oo later than June I, t9gg.
The District must be notified iu writing a uinimrmprior to the coruenceoent of constructi;n.of 48 hours
If you have any questions regarding the conditioosperni!, pleese call us at 830-0555.
of the D is trict I s
Page 2
and
frm
bales are used, all bales roust be staked in place and reinforcedon the doirnstream side nith snow fence.
3
4.
RCO/i""-
c: Ur. Frederick RichardeMr. Frederick Rahr
Ms. Joann O lson
KK/330,0
1y
I
e
Robert C. Oberneyer
BARR ENGINEERING CO.
Engineers for the Dis t ri ct
Approved by the Board of Managers
RILEY-PURCdTORY-BLUI|F CREEK
I{AJE
./rt,.
RSHED DISTRIi,/.,4,
DaEe: '-
President
./
Ri ley-Pu rg ato ry-B luf f Creek watersheal District
Minutes of Regular Meeting of
october 7, L987
Page 2
B Permit 87-64r Bleustem Hi1l.s 4th Addition; Grading and
Land alteration permit: Eden Prairie.
In order to aIlow municipal review of the development to
be completed, it was mol'ed by Cardinal, seconded by Rahr,
that the matter be continued until the next reqularly
scheduled meeting of the Board of Flanagers. Upon vote
the motion carried.
MDNR Chapter 105 work in Protecteal waters Permit Applica-
tion - Rivkin property - Lake Lucy: Chanhassen
Manager Rahr conunenteal that no additional construction
shoulal occur adj acent to the ditch bei.ng affected by this
proposeal deve lopment. Manaqer Rahr expressed his
opposition to any future construction on either side of
the ditch in the event this development application is
aPproveal,
Permit Extens ion 87-43'. Eden Pointe: Eden Prai.rie.
Bermel-Smaby Singletree Lane site: EdenPermit Extens i on :
Prairie.
c
D
E
F
l.1r. Brauer was Present to submit the plans and specifi-
cations for this development. During the course of
cliscussion. Iilr. Brauer noEed that sedimentation basins
;;; already in place from previous developments which
have been reviewed and approved by the Board ' These
sedimentation basins wilI Iikewise service this area to
be developed.
Pernj it 87-68 and MDNR Chapter 105 work in Protecte'l
;l;i;;;- p.t*it apprication - Lake virsinia-Lake Ann-Red
RockSan-itarySewerlntercePtor:EtlenPrairie/Chanhassen
Upon motion duly matle, seconded and adoPted, this matter
w'as continued until further plans and specifications are
submitteil to the Board for review'
G Permit 87-59: UtilitY Installation-Timber Creek North;
Grading and land alteration Permit: Eden Prairie
The Managers noted that site grading has already commenced
on this site. Mr. Obermeyer rePorteal that the developer
is now seeking permits for utility installation' The
Managers expreised serious reservations as to r''hether or
not iny additional permits should be issued unless and
until -the developei compJ-ies with existing permits
ieeuirinq the instrllation and maintenance of aIl erosion
I
*16
{{
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
SI, PAUL DIS]FICT. COIPS OF Ei.(iDIEEFS
r!35 U.S. FOS' OFFTCE I CUSTOX HOT SE
sI. ,auL ulxr€sol^ !5r0r.tart
i#xtl"*( n-o?€rN-Lt)
Cooatruction-Operatioas
Regulatoty PuDctions
1rlt".r.,-1 eL't?n
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Gtut**l t4r-tt d24 P**l
o4A 4/434 "/'^ '/ l:" P^"1
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fiNCa^rn*G
yNeff you have any quGstions. pleare call
Siacerely,
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Itetc;--iaation 3eo ,s- 6)bt) Li)
n1-. Bl-lz,;* t^^./,r; ri-r-.-0 q nzh,;-no;Jb p.--f ,C. !-/er/k
cf.-**! o.^"1 o. u,-oao* p-.!
P-rrA -"A J*rr^r! ,;rn^-U k"-Z m
Eacloaure (e)
4;ZL /r"48-U
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pa.y A-aa /rrL.*;l pL--Jr-"2- A,cZ/-^-/ il4 ,*".t
-t-l.^;/trA@(fiea A. 9oA{
ffie. neiuiatory Fuoctiong Branch, Coastructioroper!tioDa Divieioa
4
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f,,tAR i 3 iJ8/
TL-"-/o,ooo 4#-
tr clrY or cnANness6,t
/r1.. ti P"'l';
ss?s t -*T',ffldE*lz.L, n N ,sj.t,
lle have reviesed the ioforEatioa prorrided ua about your projeet.
The sork you propore at the locatiotr stated ebove is autlorized iy aae:isting aatioavide Departneot of the Arly peruit. prorided the rork isdone ia coapliaace ritb the caclored coaditioar aod raaageacnt pEacticerligted iB the ealcoaure
fhis deteruiDatioa covers only the proj:ct tefercaced above. lfthe design, location. or purpose of the rort is chaaged. you ahouldcoatact us to oake Eule the rork rould Dot se3ult ia a violatioa ofEederal lar. Our telephoae ouober is <6LZ) 725-7557.
It is your reapoasibility to iasure that the vork coo,plies ritb theterEs of rhis lerter aad the eacloeures. rr rs ycllR nrspoNsn u.tr: To GTArNAI.L REQUIRED STATE PERI{ ITS A}ID APPROVILS B EEORE YOU PROCEED I{I1T rxE PROIECT.11I]S NATIOTTIIDE PER}TIT AITIXORIZATION IS @NTI}EENT IIBON STI[rr APPN,oVAL.
rr
TEADTATERS xiDresots
33 cFR 330.5(a)(25)(i) Di.echargea of dredgerr or fill uaterier iEro the rererslisted iB paragraphs (d(25)(il aad (ii) of tbie sectioD .t"ept tuoi" ,iicn
. cau8e tbe loar or aubstaatial ldverge nodificatioo of l0 acree or Eore of %teraof tbe united statea, iacludiag vetlanda. For dischargee vhich cauee the loggor :ubetaotial ldverce nodification of I to l0 acrea of gucb yatrrs, inclurtingyetlatrd8, lotificatiou of tbe district engioeer ir rcquired ia accoidance vithsectior 330-7-. - (Projecrs thet. qualify for euy other aationside peruit naybe authorized by that perait.)
(i) Xoa-tidal rivcre, rtrcau8 rod tbei! lehea and iopoundmente,iucluding ldj!ce!t vetla'd', that rre roclted above tbe headrraters.
Becioual Coud it ioua
A IT STATE PERUITS AITD/ OB ATPROVAIS REOI'IBTD
Aay pereon intending to diacharge dredged or fill Daterial ioto r{ionesota-derigoated tProtected lhtererr rhall eubuit an application to tbe llionelotaDepartDeEt of llatural Resourcee (ttDtlt) before begianiug rorlc Activitiea areaot luthorized under thie !"tiolvide peruit uatil the applicaot obtains allapplicable llioneeota DepertEert of lfatural Beeourceg (UOnn) ana/or UiuDesotaPollution Coatrol Agency (X?CA) pernite and approvale. tlorL uay proceed uponrecript of all applicable !{DtlB aad/or IPCA peraite and approvaie.-
Other State aad local luthorizstioae uay be required.
ff the project vill draia, fill, or inuadate yaters of tbe United. Stetes .ad tbea.ajority, by area, of the ysteas/vetlaads sffected ig abovc tbe ordioah high-r.ter Eark of State r?rotected llatero'r, theo Sectioa B belou !pplie8.
I. IF trO STATE PEEI{ITS AtrD/ OR APPROVATS RTQI'IRTD
l. An Isdividual DepartEept of th. Arny PerEit Uu8t Be Obtained Fro The Corps of
EoqiEeers for the Pl.sceEept of Dredred or fill Haterial IE tbe follorriaq Arees:
d. IBoUT IIrES - ,etllDdr adjrceat to tbcse lrt,ea derigoit€d b, tt. t{DfB(lirt.ttrched).
c. CILCABEOIrS lEf,S - fcur dcrignrted by tbc UD B (lirt ettached).
l-21
he tributarias -l(aad rdjaceot retlandg) of tbe8e ltreaos as pari of a project that vould draiu,fill, or iluBdate aa !rG! larger tbla 10,000 eguare feet of | ?rter of the . : -IIEited Strte.. .. ! ' ....-.
.' - b.. IEDEnAL IIILD AND SCEI{IC BMBS (ST. CnOIx BIWR).- ell bea<lyeterr (ead . - ': i a
.. idjrccat rctlalda) aud ell tributarieo (aarl adjaceut r€tlaDds) of the.St. .Croir : .' Livcr ra p.rt of e projact that rould drait, fill, or iaundate an area larger :-
than 101000 equare feet of a yeter of the Uoited Stltes. .- -
-
c. LIIXES/rEnAf,DS IJIRGEB EAI{ lO ACRES - ell retleDils ailjaceEt to rhese "':.
heldv.trr la}.cr and retlrndr. if the placerent ia done rr part of. projlet thet -.-. i'
vould draio, fill or inuDdrte !n lrcr larger tbaB 10,000 aiuare feet of r reter . l
of the lrDited Statea. Theae areae are ideatified by l{DtrR oa.their r?ublic
faters/IretkBds Iweatorytr aapr. . . . :. ..' - ..
a
7 (
lliaac rote
lfort rey procccil lpol tcecipt of .! bdi"idurl pcrnit fror lhc Gorpr.of Eagiacerr.
{
'+.2. ,
I i..
o P P
.lctiviticr thrtr -ra p.rt of a ?rojcct, rould dreia, fitl, or iouDdrtc ra rrce ofrorc thrB 101000 rqoerc fGct of a,lrlGa of tha Uaitrd 8t!tcr, vh.rc th. proj.ct
ir totelly ont.idc rtetc jurirdictio!, rurt be raportcd to the Corpt of Eagineert
?rior to carrying out thc rcrivity.
llorl rey procied spoD accript of l coofinetion lcttrr froE th. Corpr of
'tagiuccrr.
3. latioavide Pctuit Aoslics
Other
:
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D-22
{EADPATEBS
r' Statc Protccted llateRev3
ll.ccrcnt of drcdgcd o! fill retcritl ia ell otbcr herdrrtcrr end tdjrccotrctlud. ir eutborircd by thir rrliottrid! paruit. -.9ott rey proeecd rithoutttittc! eutborirttioo froE thc Gorpr of Eagiacerr.
(
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISS ION
REGULAR MEET I NG
FEBRUARY 11, 1987
Chairnan Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Tim Erhart, Steven Emmings, Robert Siegelr Ladd Conrad, James Wildermuthand David Head Ia
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Howard Noziska
STAFF PRESENT:
Barbara Dacy, City Planner and Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City Planner.
PUBLIC HEARING:
create an o pen water habitat for waterfowl and
on Lake Lucy on proPerty zoned R-R, Rural
t Bf..k 3. Ltke Lucy Highlands, Eric nivkin,
{I
Publ ic Present:
Ton Kraker
Mark and Kathy Sanda
{
Olsen: The property is located in Lake Lucy Highlands, Lot 5 and it is
adjacent to Lake Lucy. The applicant is proposing a pond and channel to
provide access for his canoe to Lake Lucy. The wetland is a class A-wetland and the ordinance requires a 9[etland Alteration Permit for any -"1
dredging or channels or docks or any alteration to the lretlands. A permit I
is aiso required from the DNR and the Watershed District. The channel wilI
serve as aic"ss to the lake and the pond will serve as a wildlife habitat. -
The city regulations require minimal impact to the wetland, tl.lat no spoils
will bJ locited within the wetland and that erosion control will be
provided. The DNR and Staff visited the site with the applicant and after
ieview, we found that the pond and the chaonel connected can promote rough l
fish entering up into the pond. The size of the pond is so that it will
have summer and winter kiII, the lack of oxygen, Ehat it could possibly be
a maintenance problem with stagnation due Eo the high volume of vegetation
around it. The DNR has stated that they $rant the pond and channel to be
separated. We keep working on this day Eo day and their most updated
reponse is to have the pond and the channel separated. That would prevent
th; fishery problem erith the fish coming up into the pond and promoting
these rough fish. They had stated that an aerator could be used. The
applicant has, as far as the stagnation and the summer and winter kills,
on this new plan has provided an aeraEor. A DNR permit is not required
if an aerator is not used durinq the winter. The DNR wanted it to
fl6
wEEl;;d-Tterat ion Permit to
Fil6Ee' aEG6-Tof grre gel99
Residence and located on Lot
EppllcanE. -
5597 Timber Lane, Excelsior
I4343 Eairway Drive, Eden Prairie
Pl ann i ng
February
Commission
I1, 1987 -
Meet i ng
Page 2
be made clear that if t-he channer is put in or the channer with a pond, thatthat becomes public and "nlotg using ihe Lake can go up into that pondarea. They arso pointed out that thL site has looiestiir" -iigtt
n'ow'-and ithas been documented that if a site is artered it promotes more roosestrifeto expand in that area which can be a real problem. rt kirls off the restof the wetland. The watershed acted on this' r.J w.an"sJuy^.ra they tabredany action untir they hear back from the DNR on their recoirmenda t i on. Theyhave stated that they want erosion contior throughoui ina- Ii,,.t no spoilswill be permitted within the wetland aiea. As far as the City isconcerned, $re want minimum impact to the eretrand. rn our review, the mainpurpose o-f this pond and channer is for access to the rake so staff isrecommending that the pond and channer be divided u"".r""-oi the potentiarprobrem to the wetland- we are recommending instead ttril "-ao.r o,boardwalk be instar.red. rtre reasons -io. tt ii ii" -tn. ;;;;i.*" rhat canoccur from the pond and the channer being connected to Lake Lucy. Thereare tr.ro lots on either side. one alreadli tras a trouse -U"i"i built on it andthe other one is a potentiar nome sile ind they could arso want Eo come inand have another channel and_a ponding.."". we are recomnending that if achannel or a pond is approved,. t!?t ,iey -:.oof p! !h" p"."i-Uif it, of puttingthe pond and channer on the rot lines. 'Ar"o, if it i;-;;pio.,.a, lre arerecommending that he provide a performance security. rf the permit isapproved, we have a list of conditions that r "un
jo tt,i..gh but we arealso recommending, as the.DNR,. that the pond and channel b6 separated so:H:::::lyoil?..'" wourd be eriminaieJ.' wo,rd you rike me ro eo rhroush
Conrad: No.
Eric Rivkin: (The applicant handed out pictures of the site to EbePlanning Commissione-rs)_ The responses tiat I have n".", -in.ruded with thatnew map, are revised after r reviewed the staff n"J".t'".'iiis is a secondmajor reiteration orocess- r'm going to read arong and comment oo thehand-our rhar vou iave and r'tl itari our r.riih-;r; ;;p;""p;".d design hasminimum impact. Firsr of arr, praclm.r,t o. the rot ,i.i;i;;" the rengthrequired. this is the outland irea, star-ted by heron" i= -arr marsh fromhere down- They found to put u pona on-ur," otti.. .iJ" ,"uii go much ronqerso this is the shortest diitancL from the place where I.o11a enter a boitand go to the open water. The pond aepitr, 'you ..n ".i ;-;;;"= sectionhere, r revised ir he-re to g feet p."u.nuini proui.*"-tJ iiir a"ptt,freezing. The pond also does not ie.o,re ttre ietrinJ-oi-uiJ.ti. vegetationthus -destroying any additional foot or habitat ror wrrariie- that wouldbenefit from that- The marsh grass starts right tr".". -tt,i" veqetationhere is primariry terrestriar ind not aquatici tt," pona,"rI yo,, ".n """,is not what is Iocated in the terrestria'r area. tn"'poni Jn'a ctrann"rsquare foot surface area is ress than the typicar a."ig;-th;' DNR fisherieswould have permitted with a simpre boat t-urnaround. My proposal has atotal of r0,813 square feet which is 8 L/22 ress vrha u o', ri illo*mended. Itarked to steve oie in the Fisheries and he said typicarrv tt"v permitted a2q f oox square channel rrith a turnaround f". ;1;;i. --,i^,*u''iu"a
conversation with him he said that was some-thing they ".n"'ii.'r" wiEh anditrs less than that- The surface area of Ehe channer itserf removes
!.
Plann i n9
Eebruary
Commission
11, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 3
on]-y z/]-qth of L?. This is the lot right here in the green. The slashed
area is rdetland area on Lake Lucy. This outline rras taken directly from
the wetland's Map given to me by Jo Ann. This pond and channel is to scale
so it gives you an idea of what kind of impact it has. We've got ovet 2
million square feet of marsh on Lake Lucy and the channeL is a Iittle over -5,000 square feet. Is every remaining lot owner or potential owner had a
boat channel, that is all these lot otrners here already have lake access.
A1I the Iot owners here except this one, Mark Sanala, has lake access. The
island is owned by someone vrho doesn't Iive there and that could
potentially go to development and this is a government outlot. That can
not be developed. This coulil be potenEially developed and Princers
property could possibly be developed. If I added in a total of 5rO6O
tineal feet of channel, the same as my width, and it came out to
approximately 2Z of the entire wetland area to date. The Pond' is brought
to the edge of the upland terrain to eliminate the need for artificial
structur;s such as docks and also to keep it within my needs to work to put-
my Iake access in. The Profile of the pond is perceived to be minimal
because of the efforts made by steep slope. The slopes are 2 to 1 and 5 to
I. Typical as possible with a minimum disruption to the Iand may not be
conducive to further cattail growth. If you design a pond to be much more
shallower grade to it, you further enhance the ability for cattail to grow
back so we made it as deep as possible. The curved pond design avoids the -established deciduous shrubs and Erees such as dogt{oods and ash as well as
provide a natural vJood. The crooked design of the channel avoids an
irtificial appearance with minimum length. If we went straight out it
r,rould not f ook tite it was a part of the park. With minimum intrus i on into-
the upland clay soils which maximizes Ehe chance for rapid revegetation
surroi:nding the pond but also the fact that it is in terrestrial vegetation
area also maximizes the chances for it revegetating too. Why the
construction methods have minimal impact? Dredging the channel versus
using herbacide, which is an alternative that the DNR has approved before.
oredging is non-pol.luting to the environment. SilEation created-by
dredqin; wilI totally disappear. The long Eerm health effects of
herbicides have not been 100? safe and may contain carccinogens- To
minimize silt entering into the Iake, we have follo$red pretty much the
recommendations given to us by Bob Obermeyer of the hlaEershed District. To -
minimize silt entering into the lake, construction is to take place during
the winter months when ice can support the equipment. I t ould Iike to say
that I think they are making a somewhat unfair in this proposal by the
staff that $re only restrict this to winler of 1987. If delays are made, I
do have the right Eo have one year to use any permit that may be issued to
me so I think that should be extended to 1988. The pond should be
constructed first and the channel dug Iast from the pond to the lake
leaving a barrier at the end of the channel until sediment permits removal
of the barrier. Siltage here, minimum two foot dock is excavated in the
area and all exposed spoils from the pond will be Iocated right here. The -
exposed soil will be temporarily seeded with broadgrass mixture and mulched
wiih straw for erosion control. For nutrient control, no bluegrass wiIl be
plant.ed and no fertilizers will be permitted. Spoils from the channel are
being disposed of behind this l2 foot berm. The l2 berm meaning there is a
cleai arei from the edge of the channel to rrhere we can disperse the spoilsL
I
PI ann ing
February
Commi ss i onII, 1987 -
Meet ing
Page 4
from the channel- rhis is not spoirs from the pond. This is the channelonly. This is cattairs and it's got water or ice in this case and theamount of sitt, as i_ndicated on here, could possibi; ;;l-iito ttre wetlandarea is ress than L/4 inch of slit over the are. uli n!- ai"p..".a. Thecarver soir and water.District llanager visited the ;iie-;;; said thatdispersemenr of catrair spoirs is thL way it i;;;;;1lyJJne ana irdisappears with no detrimental effects. Almost every municiparity in therocal area permits this practice with no detr i ment"r -. ii."i" and since thisisnrt.a very big project, this isn,r g"ing-1.-;r;;-;";;;;;; it willprobably disappear within a year. ario the fact that lt.'-tn.nn"r isn,t dugin a typicar fashion- . rt's not squared off. rt's angred dovrn for accessand it arso minimizes the amount 'or
"irt that we,re fufins ort. typicallymost channel designs that the DNR permits l;."" *iti " !q:,r.re bottom sortve arso submitted a ricense for ihat design. glack aiit' and clay spoirsfrom the pond can be placed separateiy upta-na and spreiJ lo tne proposedtopography as soon as Ehe moisiure .oit.nt of the "'oii-p.i.it=. Finalseeding of the uprand area, up around here, wirr consisi oi snort prairiegrass mixtures- Arso, the exiavator .iy" it,ut. ".;.ti;;-"i.-n."r spoirs awayis pretty needress and also is "eiv coli prohiuited. There witr be worsedamage to the environment because -he,s going to have to remove thesedogwoods due to the truck traffic becaule t-he pond t,u" J-L" dug first.This.is arr going to have to be trackJ over, he has to haur in twodumptrucks going back and forth constantly to keep ttre cranl operating andit wiII take another additionaf foui-auv=_ of constructiont $3t6OO.6O moreand it wirr arso contain tarqe ctrunk" or i"" utrt v.r r"ria have to deposithere which make the spoils inipossibre to revet out the same year because ofthe moisture content so.you cin't dry it out- That prevenis spreading itout and reseeding it rigtrt away and c-hut.dd= to pote'ntiar "irt run_off inthis area. r arso wanted to r-espond to the dock] It reairy can,t $rorkbecause it is house prohibited wirich i; "i;.;i-J"ri". *""iil riqht to rakeaccess' since my conversations with Jo Ann, Irve gotten three more quotesfron Bridgeco- r called three more sources and t-hey u." "ri more than whatI quoted here so this is very conservative. w",r.-.t.1f.in9- aboot g_7,006.00to put in 6as rineal f eet of a-ock with minimar'tr,...1".i''"iatn. this isthe least expensive design and.comparatively the cost to exlavate tneproposed plan with an aerator is $Z,IAA.SS. If I aia ttl -.u-"ao. deck orfroating deck, it would be more expensive and r haa quoies-ripwaros of$30,090.06 to $39,ogo.a0.to do froaiing aocxs.nJ-Jo-i.-li.-xi.d of docksyou see in parks $rhere there a-re docki going in tr," ,"1a"'ind that kind ofdock is $35,ggq.gg. posts need to b" d.iu.o to solid g.ounJ- and are verydifficurt to instal1. rt is a serious liability anJ in;-;safery hazardto snowmobirers. 6 to 7 foot tarl cattails. ,p rirgh"r irr]n docxs anasnowmob.irers do freguenE the area a1l the time. ft"r" "J= J snowmobiretrail there when we visited the siEe this morning.Mi't i"-. seriousliabititv- The dock lrourd be hidden in rhe.reeds .;t;;;;.. travering ata great speeds is soing to run inro it. This is rhe ki;e-;; thing thatinvites rawsuits- Arso, the neighbors and r thing u aocL l-" .n "y""o...rt doesn't brend in at arl Eo the environnent. prtduct rite ror docks istypicarry 15 years. Maintenance cosEs are very.high ""p."ilrrv if made toremove rhe docks. rhe posts in the winter, ir-it 6".o.!"-"-iiiuiiiav, -ii-turns my leisure activity into a vocation which is ""*.tni"S... I also
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PIanning
Eebruary
Commission
1I, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 5
would like to say in response to the fact that it's not detrimental, I
would like to say why it's beneficial to the wildlife fish and lakes
surrounded by the community. The addition of more open water would
counter balance the gradual disappearance of open lake eraters due to
natural eutrophication process. There is also a clay base to the pond whic[
will maximize in it's depth ancl also maximize it's ability to continue tohold water. The addition of pump at the bottom surface will encourage
initial growth of a better class necessary for natural oxygenation and
support fish and $rater fovrl habitat. The DNR, John Parker, from the
water Conservation District ManuaI which he came !ne those specifications
for the pond. when I proposed this plan to him and he initially said that
there wouldn't be any problem due to the wildlife benefits to this and he
did recommendations on how to design the pond from this book. In a smaller
positive way, the pond also increases the storage capacity of the lake by
more than J-4 gallons. The 16 to I slope going up in here is preferred for _water fowl eniry in the water Conservation District l.lanual. It states that-
thatrs not a good slope. The Pond is located to existing shrubs and dry
grasses providing desirable cover for mammals and possibly nesting water
fowl and is far enough away from the houses to provide. The fish manned to-
the area will consumme mosquito larvae. The map shows here the size of the
pond now. The DNR recommended a 40 by 40 foot version of this pond which
is a Iittle less than half this size. If I donrt have any pond at aII,
rough fish are still going to get in. They prefer shall'ow erater- My pond
is more than tvrice the depth that the DNR recommends. They recommended 4
foot deep, 40 x 40 foot boat turnaround and if you have someplace for rough
fish to spawn, that's going to be the place Eo do it- I've Proposed an
aerator system which will keep the water oxygenated to encourage good fish
to come in because they prefer water with high oxygen leveIs. The pond and
channel are large enough to Provide addiEional landing area for water fowl. -That is another benefi[. even though ducks and geese have been thriving in
much shallower ponds in Ehe Lake Lucy area, you can drive by any littIe
pond and they are covered with green duck weed and it'S croontail in them.
I have taken a canoe out into th-ese ponds and looked at them with Bob tange-
to investigate what is the nature of these ponds and there is croontail,
about 2 or 3 feet of muck and the ducks and geese are thriving so algae
aloes not create the severe stagnaEion conditions where there is a high
tlegree of decomposing orgranic material in the boEtom does not discourage
wiid fowt at all and the evj.dence is there. Just Crive by and you find
animals all the time living there. I plan to Prevent stagnation and .i
fillament this algea to a minimum by putting in a nicroenforcer used with a
remote pump described in the attached literature. I gave Jo Ann a copy of
it. you pfobably didn't get a chance to see all of them. I think there is
one sheet where they describe the system there. Basically, whaE it does is -
it causes microscopic air bubbles to rise in the water from the lowest part
of the pond and the sUrface tensiOn of the air water interface causes them
to pull a maximum quantity of water fron Ehe bottom of the lake causing a
purging process and thatrs the kind of !hing that occurs naturally in clear
tatces up-north twice a year $rhen cold waves come in. The pump will be
turned otf in the winter to prevenE open $rater hazards. This can benefit
the community too. The process being demonsErated on the pond can provide
a good example for studying, controlling or reversing the eutrophication
(
{
t
PIann i ng
February
Commission1r, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 5
process that is occuring no!, on Lake Lucy. Every lake goes through it andsome people refer to.it- _as a dying lake process when you lose the resource.Lake Lucy is a very shallow lake ind .nyit ing tt ut-y"ir-""n-ao to createmore open water wirr enhance it and revErse fhis pr6cess rg0 degrees so rwas kind of surprised the DNR didn't come back and actuatty want more takenout because they permit. this -on a grand scale on other lakts. The city ofRichfield right now_.is breaking up cattail.s .na tt"y,r" -iof
"r"n putting inaeration systems. They ar.e just slmpry going in urd ;ig;ing out the messand the muck and putting in ponds .na tattaiis that w".'e- .ir"ray there.That wiII disappear- and they wiIl have more open water for the rest of thisarea to enjoy and wirdrife and_ encourage bettir fish, not rough fish. Thiswill also benefit the other- rakes and irevent fish kirrs. rmprovingcl-arity, reduce weeds. and argae and heip eliminil. tt,.-""rphorous odorsthat are associated wi th
. decompos i ng matter. r wirl maintlrn rarger andhealthier fish and wir<rrife populations, eriminaie-"t.g"."; bottom $ratersto prolong the rife of the raae. ...to rocalize the fiofo""a pona. rt is430 feet from Lake Lucy and is the most effects of diis'area. Letrs say rdidn't have the aerator-. Let's say the artificiar o*yqen.ilon ,r." not usedat all. Buird-up of deconposing rnatter, this is *h;tj y;;;;ed to encouragerough fish- To have- an understinding oi this would eriminate any fearsthat an-ybody might have with a g foot deep pond encouraging rough fish fora very long period of time. You need severar conditioni iri oradr ror rougtrfish to wanE to live there..One is that you .have d.ecaying algae on the top.Ihgt {nay occur, probabry wirr occur because there is d-uck- weed Ehere nowbut. thatrs not going to cause light to enter the water but vrhat causes thefish not to $rant to come in in thL first prace is black anterobic srudgethat is down in the bottom and causing a separate type water which preventthe fish from going down and doing botlom fieding. 'ini" -p..*its beneficialaerobic organisms- The buiral-up of decomposing 6rgani" ,n.lt.. on thefot!9m of the pond would be very ins_iqnificant -for -""." ii*" because thereis rittle organic matter to begln wit"h and build-up in trre"surroundingvegetation wourd be minimal-. usuarly it buirds up very iu"i ,n"n you haveagricurtural run-off going in when it rai,ns and t.r".p.. "iits ana we havelots of forested areas- ponds in forested areas tend i. riir up nuchfaster because the organic matter tends to buird-up ou.. li*" and therearentt any big trees around here to cause that condition. there is iittr.organic natter to begin with and build-up from surroundinq vegetation.Beneficiar aerobic organisms to consume and keep up r"rith a-minimum inituxof organic matter so so-calLed stagnation or oxygen depretion probabrywon't occur for some time. continuous oxygenation or iemoval or "uru6ndioxide will maintain a favorabre environment to any good or bad that oointo the pond as werl as prevent buird-up of manaeroti" a""o* fo-Ji "g
-"rll.
i "matter. By having a shallow channel and a shallow pond, boat turniro"ia,--the rough fish wouLd thrive more. By giving the qooa rish a prace to comein, it would cut down on the rough tfsrr popuiation by traving deep waterthere-. The design of the pond is meant to support rirge poiurations ofspawning game fish. Thatrs not my primary purpose but at rlast i.t won,t beadetriment to any fish or any wildlife trrat wouta w..,a.r in. However, rwirr mention that this artificiar oxygenation process t"s in many pondsbeen a great success. To explain the oxygenation part or tnis tt,i.q -.-
rittle better than r can, r have asked sou r,ange ,iro i"-.n-.xpert in this
Meet i ng
Page 7
(
Bob Lange: Irve knolrn Mr. Rivkin since 1985 and I would like to say that
he has called me on many occasions and asked my advice about environmentalmatters. He has looked at other land and has constantly r.rorked to improve _the land for the environment and wildlife and I think he is a credit toyour community. I didn't cone here to promote my company but I would like
to tell you that I'm the President of Clean Flo Laboratories in nopkins and
we started business in L970 so werre 16 years oId and we have restored over-
L,00A Lakes and ponds worldwide during that period. one of the things that
I would like to address is the loosestrife problen. Loosestrife prefers
r^rater that is shallower than water that cattails live in and by digging the-
pond deeper than the cattails, Mr. Rivkinrs project certainly lrill not
encourage any loosestrife growth. The other thing I would Iike to addressis mosquitoes. In 1982 I wrote a report for the Department of
Environmental Protection in the state of New Jersey on mosquitoes and the
results of that report caused the state to aIIo$, storm water settling
basins to be built in housing communities provided aeration was applied to
these basins and I would like to read you some exerPts from this report. -Ponds will be conducive to mosquito growth if permitled Eo become stagnant
of it the ponds became full of aquatic vegetaEion. Mosquitoes and
stabilization ponds have usually been associated with gro$rth of aquatic
vegetation. ShaIlow ponds with abundant vegetation often produce mosquitoproblems. I would like to say here that Mr. Rivkin's pond will be so deep
thaE it wonrt encourage submerged aquatic vegetation. According to
researchers, ponds free from vegetation have presenEed no problem and I
give several references here. waters t.hat contain fish, seldom are sources
of mosquitoes because their larvae are preferred fish food and are
relatively available to fishes because the larvae and pupae come to the
surface to survive. WhiIe collecting material for his publication the
mosquitoes in IlIinois, H.H. Ross in 1947 found no mosquito larvae or
nymphs in farm ponds except in parts containing dense stands of submersed
aluirtic rreg"tadion which prevetted the fish from reaching the larvae or
pupae. What I've just given is three major reasons why nosquiEoes have not
been found in ponds treated by the clean flo process- The moving surface
water due to multiPle inversion of the water, the lack of aquatic
vegetation and the exceptional abundance of fish- l'rater quality is greatly
imbroved in all the Ponds that we treat, especially in higher oxygen, lower
phospherous and nitrogen levels. This gives much better watar quality then -would be found in Ponds partially recharged.-. I would also like to say
that in the ponds thaE we have aerated, there has been an increase in water
fowl using those ponds. In fact, in the State of KenEucky, we itave several
ponds that we are aerating there and this has been responsible for water
fourl now beginning to winter over in the state of Kentucky r"rhere they
havenrt in the past. Are there any quesEions that I could answer?
Conrad: Maybe Iater on.
Mark Sanda: I'm the neighbor to Eric's east side. The property line there
, mentioned in one of the diagrams and my wife and I are here, we just wanted
L to state that we've known Mr. Rivkin for about 5 months. rt's becoming
PJ. ann i ng
February
Commission
I1, 1987 -
area to Ealk and answer any questions about this process.
r\mutual future neighbors and have been very impressed with his knowredge ofenvironmental factors. He has taught us a tremendous amount about thetype of vegetation that exists up on our property and the care of somerather nice majestic red oaks thJt exi.st up on odr property. The care intaking care of the tree-s during the constriction pr6ce." oi ooa home andrrve told Eric that as long as -the pond did not udc-ome -a riJsquito nest orsomething rike that, we cin't imagine him- doing ";tthl.g
'ii tn" propertythat wouLd be environnentarly damiging and thai we have no objections tothe building of the pond and the ciianriet.
Tom Kraker: Irm also an osrner of one of the lots on SteIIar Court,actuarly across the street from Mr. Rivkin and r have r.norn eri" ro..short period also but.have h.een equally impressed ,ith ;l;'inor.rledge andconcern and care of the environment. r rrourd like to state that ii appearsthat the recommendation for the dock is really much less-in keeping lriththe natural environment. than his proposar and- r wourd encourage thecommission to come in with a favoiabie recommendation because r do supportit: r.h.ave personarry rived on smarl lakes that have ueto." victim to theeutrophication process. and it's real.ry a sad thing to see lhut pro""ed andanything such as this that c..t a.resf that should be 100ked on veryfavorably and r believe Mr. Rivkinis proposat- with the deep pond, aerator,etc- wirr indeed herp arrest that protes! and again, shouti be rookec uponfavorably.
Eric Rivkins r want to read a letter from another neighbor who was addressedon the list. His name is Bob Burish and he is owner o-t f,ot l, Block 2,Lake Lucy Highlands. He addressed the letter Eo Ms. Olsen. It says, inregards to the notification on the hearing for my."qu""f to aredge achannel. and smaLl pond on the shore of f,alie Lucy-, woirld liLe to go onrecord in support of the.request. rt is our opinion th;. i;" pran proposedwould enhance the shoreline-by creating a protected open water wetrand areafor.migratory water fowl and ihore rirds. rt would also "reate morehabitat for fish and aquatic wildrife. rr is also o;;-;pi;io. rhat rhechannel and pond area r^rould be more appeaLring ih.n .-roIi'rooa"r, dock toEhe open vrater and l.ess. disr.upEive tJ uprand glne and vis'uar aesthetics. rarso want to say that since ii has become or w-ourd
-t eco.e u pubric waterrraythat everybody on Lake Lucy, rdhether they come in from land or water, willcome and enjoy the benefits of the increase in wildlife ana possiury aprace to fish- r arso tarked to some of the oraer ieiia"nts ot the area tofind out what kind of the history of the eutrophicati""-lio"""s has gone onLake Lucy. There is a- gent.remen there up on the hilt who has been theresince 1907 and r asked him how is the tistrinq.n tt "-r.t"? Ho$, has it beenand he said it's gotten worse. All he catchds no$, are uuirheaas. He usedto caEch warleye and many more northerns then there are now. He is sodisappointed with the rake and it's abirity to proauce -rl.i,'tn.t he doesn,tfish there anymore and he hasn't for about 30 years. since 1907, that'sLess than harf his rife. He says that the amouot of cattairs that havebeen encroaching on the rake hai been ever increasing so we can stop thaEprocess.
Planning Commission Meet i ngFebruary Il, 1987 - page 8
Pl ann i ng
February
Commission
1I, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 9
Headla moved, Emm ings
and motion carried and
seconded to close pubJ.ic hearing. All voted in favorpublic hearing was c Iosed.
one
Headla: Jo Ann do you have any comments on the presentation?
Olsen: Yes, I have a few. Steve oie from the Fishery DePartment of DNR
iloes not approve of the channel and pond. As stated before, they want it
separated to not promote any rough fish with the connection of the tlro.
Also, they stated they rrant the pond separated 5g to lAg feet from the
channel. The government lot to the west was an outlot but the city did
not $ranE it as a parkland so the developer $rent to the City and it has
become a buildable lot now. As far as the construction extending into next
year, that is fine as long as you only do it during the winter months. It
states that you can not dredge during the rdater fowl breeding season.
Again, the spoils, it was recommended that they be outside of the ordinary
high water mark and the Watershed District has confirmed that they vron't
allow even the channet spoils to be placed within the wetland. AlI spoils
have to be mulched and seeded and that wiIl be difficult to do if they are
just placed next to the channel. Again, we are stressing that the Pond and
channel should be separated.
Headla: What do you mean thaE the pond and channel should be separated?
Olsen: The pond is an area where the fish will go up and can spawn, rough
fish, so the DNR does not want that to be connected. They will allow the
channel so he can have access for his canoe and they $rilI allow the pond
also if he wants to have an open wildlif e habitat area but by connect i ng
them, that provides an area for the fish !o go up and possibly will promote
Ehe rough fish. If ther-- is any stagnation of Ehat water, that also has
been found to be detrimental Eo the lake.
Headla: So physically, they should noE be connec bed ?
shouLd be separated at least LggOlsen: Right. They
feet min imum.
are saying that they
Headla:
canoe ontalking
on the agenda here, the second line says a private access for
Lake Lucy. where did this one canoe get started because werre
about a tremendous amount of money and effort for one canoe?
olsen: Itrs just a private access.
Rivkin: I live there and I r^ran! to get out to the open water and I have a
canoe today. The lake is not big enough or deep enough for water boat. I
think there is a motor resEriction on the lake so it doesn'E appear to be
in the best i nterest to have a watercraf t so I wou Id rather put it as a
nice place to go to in the first place. I would like Eo add that the
purpole for wildlife is one major benefit to having this. It kind of
turned into a purpose af ter rev iewing alI this because it is a reversal or
stoppage of the eutrophication process. I r.rould put that dovrn as the
purpose for this project.
(
Pl ann ing
February
Commission
tr, 1987 -
Meeting
Page Lg
t
HeadIa: You're interested in just awith just a simple channel .o*ing op
why r.rouldn't you be satisfiedIot 1i nes ?
Rivkin: Coming up to tr.ro lot Iines? Sharing with Ehe neighbor?
HeadIa: Yes.
Rivkin: Mark sanda has, do you want to address the two neighbors sharing?
Mark Sanda: yes, in speaking to an attorney, they said there were atremendous number of regar issues about who -would- have responsibiri.iy orriability for something that came up a rot line. rt.s tt"-Ja,ne as having adriveway on two rot rines, r"commend"d against something iixe tnat.
Rivkin: rtrs arso an aesthetic problem that Ehe 1ot rine is straight and rlrant. to have something that wiII fit naturally.
Wi Idermuth: youtve done your
certa i nIy compelling. Do you
What kind of soit?
ca noe.to t$ro
homework very welJ,
know what is below
your argument is
muck on Lake Lucy?
and
the
Rivkin: r asked a soils expert about that. I have not dredged out to findit but r ovrn a lot on the north side of Lake Lucy ana tiralis'been sord andr looked at the soir reports there. rt is very iandy on [n.u "ia. of thelake going down to the old clay and lhe area on the west and north s ide isgray.clay and very mottled ctay. The soils expert Eold ms ahat thaE $rourdpenetrate down into the lake bottom so the rake bed is ctay. rt's notsand.
Headra: r have two concerns. My first concern is r think you,ve covered alot of the questions as of today. It scares tn. f,.& ort of me, $rhat,sgoing to happen in 5 years? xoi may noi b. h"... what happens if you rosepower down there to your aeration system? what can we ao io make sure thatis maintained 5 to I0 years from no-w?
Bob Lange: After it's run f_o r 5 to r0 years, it wourd take a number ofyears for the lake to eutrofy again. t-he pond would be eating up theorganic matter and it would Le iuctr Uetier off than Lake Lucy.
Rivkin: Because ere're_ starting off with a fresh clean bottom. Lake Lucyhas 3 to 4 feet of muck on th.- botton oi it. w",u" ""tuuiii gon. out thereand felt the bottom and stuck.our paddles down and ,"r"o.Ed'the muck. weknow what it is- we're- starting o-ut clean now. rt,s a clay base at thebottom-of thi.s pond and it woul-d take ttunareas of years ioimucX toaccumulate rike it has on Lake Lucy so it wilr ui,t'o.-rry-uirays be betterthan Lake Lucy even with no aeratfon at alr. There,s algae there no$r.rt's wetland and you go olt rhere any EiTtli q; *iiii,fna yoo see algae.By naking more of the _water reachabfe, doesnrt decrease the amount ofalgae. rtis the bad kinds of .algae that we worried about but the depth ofthis pond, even without artif ici-aI aeration.
Pl ann ing
Pebruary
Commission
11, 1987 -
Meet i ng
Page 11
(
wildermuth: so it would support the kind of slope you are conEending?
Rivkin: Yes. In other words, the clay has a very high ability to hold
erater first of all. Itrs the muck thatrs the Problem sitting on top of
wildermuth: I,m really wondering i{hat it's going Eo take for the sides
the pond to sloPe in.
it.
of
Rivkin: The pond edge now as proposed is the same, is only 5 inches to a
foot above ttre take level measured on a survey in 1985. The DNR has said
that the lol, water mark and high water mark is an imPortant. The elevation
is going to be 6 l/2 when it was surveyed and the elevation before fxeeze
o.r.i ,.i 6 inches above that. Lake Lucy is at the head of a chain of Iakes
and there are a lot of springs in the area. There are water springs coming
out of Mark's land that drains in. There is water coming out of the 10t
that I used to or.rn next to Ted Hillary's place and there's water constantly
filling the lake so the Lake level doesnrt flucuate very much except in
severe droughts.
i{ildermuth: so you don't anticipate having to redredge very soon?
Rivkin: No, not at aII. Therers no reason to redredge. To cause
redredging would mean that it would have to be so fiIled with muck that I
would liave to take it out and because the sloPes are the way they are, it
won't revegetate at all so it won't need to carve it out. The edge is
already growing with vegetation right now so it won't erocle into the pond
and welri going to seed with natural prairie grass around there which is
native to Lhe area which will encourage wildlife habitat and also the soil.
ThaErs the best thing for that area to keep the soil intact. The short
prairie grass mix number one. They have restored for Iarge corporations
ind parks and cities and they said that the particular clay soils that we
have would work.
Sieget: Jo Ann, do you know the average depth of Lake Lucy?
Olsen: we were talking abouE thaE Eoday and Ehe number the DNR has is
fairly old and it's not accurate so I donrt have a currenE dePth.
Siegel: Does the DNR regularly stock Lake Lucy with game fish?
access to Lake Lucy.
i mprovement in this area
olsen: I don't believe that there is a public
S iegel: rt seems 1i ke this wou Id be sort of an
rather than an unimprovement to the area.
I
Olsen: From a wildlife aspect it could be
saying that it will be detrimental to have
Siegel: I guess I missed the reasoning or if there
reducing the area Eo 40 by 40 instead of Ehe...
either way. The Fisheries are
a pond and channel together.
vras any given f or
says that that is the size that they normally allow forOlsen: Again, DNRa pond area.
S iegel: Tha t
than 40 by 4A.
was their only consensus was that they Con.t allow larger
Olsen: They have certain regulations.
Rivkin: I happened to have a conversation with Steve Oie from theEisheries about r.rha t you said about that. They changea ine-ir mind on the
29 -AV Ss and said just sep_arate the. pond compGtely.- r askea steve, howdid you arrive at 4g by 40? tte sai6 it's ar-ui.trar'y. itit;" about enoughto turn around a smalr boat. sometimes. it,s u1!!-ei "h; y.; have rargerdevelopmen.s- They have boat marinas that "r" 1-ig9"i t"t'1't's iustarbiErary. rt's a design probrem. As far as the ri "tr "i.
-concerned, theshallowness of the channel itself. Lake Lucy atready has rough fish. It'sa shallor', lake. rt has rough fish. rf r put a channer in, rough fish aregoing to go into the channel. If I have ] shallow "trinnei,- they,Il live inthe channers- rf r hav.e something deeper and better than what is arieaay---on Lake Lucy, then that doesn't encourige rough fish, that encourages anygootl fish that may be around whether I ierate or not.
Siegel: I guess I undetsta_nd what yourre saying that's r.rhy I,m trying toget sone reasoning of why the DNR feer so stfongry as theyto about theirrecommendation or if this is a recommendation.
Rivkin: r asked thern back and forth for a number of days for a coupre ofwee.ks and they change. Today they are one way and tomoirow they areanot-her way and you tark to somebody else and- they're sraying him. r canfind just as much evidence to suppoit my.proposar as thei-rs uut tney ir.v"allowed many projects larger thai -mine iitrr ,iore i*p..i-tr,.n mine forpeople .who are profiting from carving out rarge areis of weirands. peopreput in boat marinas for a great purp5se righti they go rn-ana carve out abig wetrand but you get some serloul milrion dorrar *i.i.. 1r,.." unJ it "y-permit Ehat sort of thing and itrs a precedent. r rranted to make sure thatmy design that we don't be a detriment to anything, it witi oe a benefit sowe meet that criteria. r tarked to Bob here who tcnows ri=hand rakes andother ponds that have- certains depths and character of ponds and lakes andr caLred Ehe John parker over at the DNR and he propo""i ..ituin criteriato me which r based my design. when r tarked to-him ne saiJ, werrFisheri_es is against -it. r said,. were you. against him when you carredFisheries and he said no but their supervisor saia he was igainst it so rguess rrm in too. That'!s the kind of responses r get when i caLl the DNR.Just because m relying- on -somebody erses opinion therefore thatrs what rrecommend so \.rha t it boils down to, a lot of these decisions are arbitrary.
siegel: what is your reacEion Eo the stipuration that the pond and channernot be connected?
Rivkin: That promotes rough fish and encourages stagnation.
Planning Commission Meeting
Eebruary 11, 1987 - page 12
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Planning
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S iegel :
that you
Rivkin:
siegel:
Would you still be pushing for the project if a requirement was
had to have the channel separate from the pond?
I think it
You would
would be a detriment. I r,rouldn't put Ehe pond in.
j ust use the channel?
Rivkin: I would put the channel in and request for some kinil of large
turnaround but then thatrs about hal-f the size of the pond anyway so why
not put something in that's really going to benefit fish instead of just
doing a halfway attempt at it because if I Put in something shaIIol{ Iike a
channel, it's encouraging rough fish. If I put in something deep, it
doesn't encourage rough fish, it encourages good fish.
Bob Lange: I have a report from Dlrayne Shodean from the DePartment of
Natural Resources and in his report he states that two of the aerated Iakes
that $re did in the Minneapolis area became the two top game fish Iakes in
Ehe seven county metropolitan area and these irere lakes that were trashfish lakes primarily. They would get winter kill before that and rre
produced Erophy size game fish in all the projects we do nationwide. On
the contrary, our process is not desirable to Ehe Erash fish. I have a
1ett3r in my file from Dave Hanson who is president of Fab-Con and he is on-
a swimming Iake in Golden VaIIey and they put our system in there and the
nort.herns came back and other game fish. They had a number of carp in the
lake before we put our system in and these carP were constantly seen with
lheir backs sticking out of hhe water and after our system was in for a few
years, the carp left the 1ake. It was connected downstream to Wirth Park
so they left the lake. They left the area. I don't believe that the rough
fish will come into Mr. Rivkin's pond and I believe Ehat it wilL be a place-
where game fish will thrive.
Conrad: Why would they thrive Ehere and not in the lake? There aPparently-
arenrt any fish in the lake right now.
Bob Lange: Right, because $re have an abundance of oxygen
We have a much lower toxic gas level. Fish become sluggish
r.rhen there is high hydrogen sulfide, amonia, carbon dioxide
and this process gets rid of those gases.
which fish need.
and lyEharg icin the water
I
Conrad: But if the rest of the lake
doing?
doesn't sustain life, then what are we
Bob Lange: If there are any game f ish arcund, it wou ld be able to mul tipty
and thr i ve.
Rivkin: DNR has gone on record as saying they encourage projects as those
recommended by the federal government to creaEe r,.retlands ouE ofagricultural land and also to reverse Ehe euErophication process by dredgingout areas and creaEing more open erater for wiLdlife. They have gone on
record as saying, the head of the DNR has gone on record as saying this is
one of the best policies that was ever to come along and is one of the bes t
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Planning
Eebruary
Commission
Il-, 1987 -
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Page 14
benefits to Minnesota. He said that in last Sundayrs paper. There isproject going through our. Congress right now about...project, reinvestMinnesota which has a section -in trrere- auo"t c;;aii;;'..'.!" r"ar"nds andincluded in wetlands open rraterways so it. oun- tr"" -;;r;-;; record insupporting this sort of activity.
a
in
rrarn as itrs been, Irveand approves it, I can
Conrad: They've been on record as supporting what kind of activity?
Rivkin: creating new areas for fish and wil.life and for the devel.pmentof pockets. people have to take a vote of tne represenll t i.r"..
siegel: what is the tirning- of approval from the DNR and the watershedsubject to this requesE? Wtrer" a-oes ii stand, do you know?
Olsen: DNR has 30 day comment period and they're pretty close to makingtheir recommendation- watershed District onry meets once a month sothey'11 be meeting on March 4th.
Rivkin: If I $rant to get this in this winter, asgot to get.in by March. The Council meeting meeEsget a permit within a few days.
siegel: That was Ehe point.of my question because one of staffrsrecommendations is that_ it be con-ti-ngent on approvar from DNR andWatershed and if Watershed isn't goiig io me"t until March 4Eh, you r^ron,tbe able to get approval from them untll uarch 4th-
Rivkin: The DNR said they could work around that. As long as I meeE thecriteria, she doesn't need them to meet and r do meet their crit.eria oferosion and soil contror as far as r can terl from trre recommendations.
Siegel: But the Watershed District is separate from the DNR.
Rivkin: r know but Judy Monroe from the DNR said that she courd issue apermit or something and courd work around their nor h.;i;; io .""a. rdon't knor',- you wourd have Eo ask the DNR. lry i.pre.sioi "." trrat shecourd give permits rrithout having the watershea oiitrict ictuatty meet.Things have gone through faster. rf it doesn't co*e aown to it and r missthis year, I'1I have to rdait until next winter
Olsen: We really must get Watershed District approval .
Emmings-: -r'!ve got an ar.rfur rot here but llr try to keep it short somehow.rrm wondering what yo_ur training and occupation i" u"".u'""- -we,re getting anawfur rot of scientific type of informarion r,"r" "i-;;-;;.
"qoinq toevaruate whaE you're saying, r have to know who you "i". iiitre bit?
Rivkin: My backgrounrl is industriar design. rrm an architect forproducts and r had influence on as far as the aesthetic "ni-".." taken Eomake sure that it conformed aestheEicarry with ttre environi"nt .oaesthetics are my business. Throughout 'my entire rii"-l;u.-irways been an
_(
I
Planning
Eebruary
Conmission
11, I987 -
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Page l-5
site several sources here. They're in your thing there.
Emmings:read everything.
(
environmentalist. Irm against the use of herbicide control and pesEicide
control and stuff Iike that. By ovrning this land and other people owning
Iand on Lake Lucy will benefit from the things that I can do.
Emmings: I guess I vrould have the same question for you Mr. Lange. I
tlon't know what your background or training is in.
Bob Lange: I'm an engineer by training from the University of Michigan.
Emmings: What kind of engineering? Civil engineering?
Bob Lange: ELectronic.
Emmings: When I look at the plan, Irm really torn over this thing. I think
the pond would add a lot to the property. It looks real nice and I see a
guy who has a lot on the lake and in a lot of ways it seems crazy to me
that he doesn't have some sort of reasonable access to that lake but I
think in a way you've done such a good job of doing your homework that
yourve raised more questions then yourve answered by a longshot and I have
no r.ray to evaluate this flood of information that has come in front of me.
I don't know about the rest of you and there is an awful lot of disputes
here that are bas ica I Iy scientif ic in naEure and I have no way Eo resolve
them .
Rivkin:
up...
Rivkin:I can
Irve
What
why does that discounE the ability for me or somebody else to come
Emmings: Irm not saying yourre wrong. I'm saying I donrt know if you're
right or not but I know that you disagree with the DNR on several points
and I donrt have anyhray to resolve that dispute.
Rivkin:seems Eo be the major concern.
Emmings: Letrs get into it a little bit here. First of all, the plan
we've got in front of us shovrs a pond that is 4 or 5 feet deep and the DNRsaid it would freeze out and now the pond is 9 feet deep so the plan seems
to be changing as $re're looking at it and that concerns me a little bit andI hope that the DNR, I don't know what version of the plan they have infront of them rdhen they're issuing their pronouncements. You say ittsbeneficial to the fish and wildlife in your materials and the DNR says itisn't beneficial to fish and they donrt rrant the channel connected to theIake. Mr. Lange says thaE oxygenation is very important to Ehis thing andIrn sitEing here wond--ring what if you dec ide to turn of f the aerator six
months after you start it up? We donrE have any vray to controL what you do
and I have no reason to think Ehat you trould do anythiog like that. IErs
. just a question that comes to mind. You've got oPinions about it being
L good and what it r.rould add to the wildlife and to the use of the lake and
Pl-anning
February
Commission
11, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 16
everything else and your neighbors have got opinions and Ehe DNR hasopinions and a lot of them are in conflict. Mr. Lange says that Bluestripe likes it sharrow so thatis noE going u" u. .nf-p;;6i.* in the pondand r think right away, okay, well the- channet isn't so shalrow. rs itgoing to be a problem in the channer? somebody put an articre on my deskhere when r came in tonight, it's from t-he llew york Eish and Game Journaland it says that the most loosestrife weed problems have occurred atmarshes in which the natural vegetation has been disturbed or eliminated1ld in-a rot of ways it sounds -to me fiom rrhat r read here that it,s thedisturbance of the environment that is as much a probrem as anything erse.
have to root somewhere and they donrt say in that study thatshallow the rdater has to be for }oosestriie to trt.-iooi. -"-
Emmings: No, and r don't know that but if Ehe 9 feet of depth is enough toeriminate loosestrife from growing in the pond, do ,r" tur.'-to worry aboutwhether the channel is 4 feet deepi
Rivkin: you said you !'rere worried about the channer freezing over.
Emmings: No, I didn' t.
Rivkin: The DNR didn't say.anything about theIrve seen articles that have si trtea literaturecompletely freezes over. ponds $rouLdnr t freezeThey never even came out to look at the site.
Rivkin: Theythey say how
Emmings: And we don't havechannel ei Eher? Ever ?
channel freezes at 4 feet.about freezing. It neverall the way to the bottom.
Enmings: Thatrs not.an issue. uy question is do we have to worry aboutIoosestrife growing in the channel?-
Bob Lange: Mr. Emmings, if you look at the naEural areas arounc this areawhere there is loosestrife growing, you will see them around the perimeterwith the cattails on the inliae. -ioi won,t find loosestriiE growing invrater deeper than the cattairs themselves wirr root in. The channel isgoing to. be deeper than Ehe cattaiI root.s so there urourd be no Loosestrifein the channel.
Bob Lange: Right.
Rivkin: rf the channel were dug with straight wal1s, Ehat $rourd almostguarantee .for many generations that cattails or anything erse wourcvegetate in there. There would be some gradual .dmi.,g in but onry to aboutl foot or so wourd you say they like Eo rtot in uut itrJ sleep srope is rdhatthe DNR tord me. John parker tord me thaE EhaE srope is id-eat for notencouraging cattait growth so r'm not in confrict rith the oun th.r. as faras cattails are concerned.
Emmings: so you r.sould not Ehink that you wourd ever have Eo redredge that
Eo $rorry about cattails encroaching in the
P Iann ing
E ebruary
Commi ss i on
11, 1987 -
l,leeting
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channel. Once dredged it will stay clear forever of loosestrife, cattails.
whatever else might grolr?
nivkin: I feel that quite strong, yes.
Emmings: On the lake I live on, Lake Minnewashta, wetve got cattails at
severll places on that lake and clumps of cattails grow around on the Iake
and lodge against my shore and why irouldn't that hapPen here?
Rivkin: Those kind of cattails are on bogs.
Bob Lange: what they're doing is growing on top of dead Plants. They have-
to have their roots in less than a foot or tlro of water in order to grovr.
Emmings: I wrote down a comment here that too bad your system isn't being
used on the whole Iake instead of just on his pond because I think the
possibility of producing trophy size fish for the whole lake is noE
iealistic. I was rrondering Mr. sanda, you have lakeshore property here
too. What are you planning to do for lake access if anything?
Mark Sanda: Nothing at this time. No plans.
Emmings: If the DNR gets it's way and has you disconnact the channel from
the pond' did I hear you right that you just wouldn't do the pond?
{r.- Rivkin: I dontt know. I hadn't thought about it. I think what would
happen is I probably would do it because digging the pond was supposed to
clein out the detrimen!s to the channeling and also add to the positive
condition of the Lake. By separating it, why have it. The purpose doesnrt -exist anymore of benefitting the lake or benefitting Ehe environment so I
probably wouldnr t.
Emmings: You've just underlined another area where you and the DNR
disagree. so thaE rnakes it very hard for me to make a decision on this
thing. That is the problem here. Because this stuff really shouLd be
resolved by people $rho understand it. we're people who come from all
different kinds of backgrounds and I don't know half of what you know about
this stuff and it. makes it just real difficult.
Rivkin: I askeil a question to the DNR this afternoon and they didn't state
a reason why they just referred me to somebody else. I couldn't get a
straight ans!{er. I get the impression that Ehis is just an arbitrary
decision. It's like throw our po$rer around and you canrt have this and you -
can't have that and we'II look smart here and I didn'E get an answer tothat question that you're asking. Why do I have to separate? why is there
no benefit to $rhat I'm doing? If by seParating this, aren't you creating a -rough fish spawning area in the channel by not.having it connected to abeneficial something that wilL negaify rough fish.
Emm i ng s: we've had a recent example here where the DNR made a comment on a -
proposal that eras before us and then t.he person who was superior to that
(
Pl ann ing
February
Commission
11, 1987 -
Meeting
Page 18
person wrote us a letter and said just ignore srhat they said and wegoing to do it another way so I,m iamiriir vrith what yJr,r" talking
rre
about.
why wait then? The same thing is probably going to happen in thisYou're going to wait a month and io investigate it and they,resive you r0 dif ferenr answers ir y6u ;;i-i;-i;;;.;.'.;';-"#i:r.
Emmings: Just as a personar naEter, r have a hard time seeing as any kindof goal for this project that wourd "ith.. stop the encroachment ofcattails or stop the process-of eutrotrrication] p..ti"ri.iry since, as youunderlined, you're realry affecEing srich a very tiny-;;;ai;, of rhe whorething. That process is -not going [o-be stoppe-d. rt'i going ro be stoppedriqht in that area but the nit,r.it p.o."r= that is bringing that rake todry. land -isn't going.to .b-e sto_pped by this project. r Ehi;k there is somuch evidence on both sides of -the tting, f aon,t think we have any choicebut to table it until some of the issu"s can be resolved and I guess, tome' r would almost be will_ing to- go al.ng with what tt. ow-i decides to doand the watershed b.g11"." f tirinf ifr"y turg_.or. expertise than you do tomake a decision and t think we ought io table it untif we see what theyhave to say.
Erhart: r think steve was.getEing to where r was getting in listening tohis questions is that r thi;k we'vi wasted a 1ot oi Eime"here. youtreasking the pranninq commission to make judgments o" .-lot'"-r issues thathas nothing to ao fitn pLanning. - i;;""" my responses Eo you is why are welooking at this on February rrln a.ra you're tryinq to get ihis ttring inthis winter? yourre tryynq to push .'pro.."" arong here too fast. Haveyou actuarly gone Eo the oltn, to their offices and -"n.",
in-e m ttris pranand everythi ng?
Rivkin: Yes, J sent it Eo them in the mair- and r they helped to design itin the first pLace. .Like t said before, John parker was the one whoadvised me. r used his advice throughort th. process to "o." up l,rith thefirst proposa I .
Erhart: Okayl but is there a formal DNR approval process?
Rivkin: yes.
Erhart: rn the sequence of this thing, r might be entirery wrong but inthe sequence of this_ thing, you shourd have had arl that dJne before r^re sae,this proposal. That'!s just my opinion. the_chaiima. *.v ,."t to addressthat a rittle bit rat3r and f juit don,t feer trrat we cai .i"r". tn.="questions. we shouldn't be asked Eo. Moving along to ,tut--, considerpranning questions, what was the notificatioi proc6== oi tr,i= regardingother land oh,ners? was it arr the peopre aroind tn. rrr." "i r.ras it justpeople within 3gg feet?. I thought we had a -change in that. I,m all infavor of everything you're arguing about. t've 9-ot pi.riv-tr swamplandmyself that r'm thinking of corning in here with i p.;p;;;i ,-itt in the nextyear but. . .
Rivkin:
proj ect.going to
PIanni ng
Feb rua r y
Commissionrl, 1987 -
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Erhart: Like I say, I agree lrith everything that you're
there is a process to this so that it gets done right.
people around that lake ought to be notified about this
I planning process, it effects them all and thatrs $rhat
for if I remember right.
Rivkin: what donrt you believe?
conrad: The old ordinance did not
notify landowners within 3AO feet-
month or two.
it- The old
changed that
arguing for but
I think all the
thing because fromour Ordinance cal ls
ordinance said to
within the last
Rivkin: why vrerenrt they invited this time? If the ordinance calls for
it, why werenrt they invited?
ca 11 for
We have
Erhart: I sort of agree with steve. The thing ought to be tabled and
let's get the homewoik done and you can get it in next.winter. Get the
.ppro.r-ul= in favor of that. So you have an understanding of where r.rerre at
,'itn tni= thing, I would Iike Eo see us take sort of a poll to give the
pia.rning staff a'irection on wheEher we agree or disagree with the concept'i" totui or if you would like, you can have us go to a vote on it'
Rivkin: I was encouraged by Jo Ann and people of the DNR that this wouLd
go through rather quickiy. -Judy's .f.irst reaction when I said this was this -
Is wondeiful. Tha€ we s-houtd ao ctris and the fisheries and wildlife will
;i";-;; for doing this and it was a $ronder I didn't ask for more land to be
"oi ur"V. r ""nf a letter to the DNR and said what do you think and they
Jia",t h'uu" urry groblem with iE so I was encouraqed that it might go
ttri""gtr this y:ear but I'm not rushing it through. It's my fault for giving
t;-y;; this tite in the first place so I'm still not hooked on the idea of
inii-V.ii-*hich gives plenty of tim_e for plenLy of barg-a-ining to go on but
wtr,-wt"fa it charige yorir opinionz I don't think it would probably change
anyone's oPinion
Rivkin: Before I aPPIied?
Erhart: I don't think we want to pass it' Somehow this
be tied Eo the DNR and watershed approval whebher we Pass
is the eray I understand the recommendation'
Rivkin: I thought the city could overridge the DNR'
thing is going to
it here tonight
Conrad: No.
OLsen: If our recommendations are more restrictive, it overrides DNR.
Rivkin: So it just becomes an argument contest'
Conrad: No, we need their inpub and that,s what wetre looking for.
(
Erhart: since we've spent so much time, just in favor of the project, ifwe get to the point to w_here we,re going to give the staff an id"J of 'what
we would like to see. r'm in favor of ihe project ou.."ii.-- r wourd liketo see, because of these things have a tendlncy to affect a rot of p.;pi;,r r,rould rike to see it shared. .Regara[ess, th;t's my opinion. r thinklawy-'s5 wirr arways find a mirlion reasons why yo" -in;t do something and rEhink_steve w.ilr agree with me on this one thlC I rdourd like to see itshared if it is possible- on the other hand, if itrs not, it shourdn,t becriteria for going ahead- r wourd rike to see the pona actuarly as big aspossibl-e. r think it provides more opportunity fo*iiarli". r don,tunderstand the connectlgl" ?n9 withoul- getting into unoit.i question, isthere .real fishing on _this rake? r gueis if ie bat trrii iiounar I donrtknow if tiere is any fishing on this rake so r don't kno!, whether, you'regoing to have to get DNR approval 0n that so that completes my questions.
Rivkin: If you take a vote noe, and let's say it passes. The DNR seesthat, that would be a positive thing for them. A cue for them...
a
Emmings: If they're as arbitrary as you think they are.
Rivkin: Then again, it.wiII go on for a year this way and everybody wiIlbe more confused then they arL right now. Just try to invorve more peopleand involve more arguments.
proposing for the pond is as good as you sayto present the nechanics of ii and hiicanrE see any reason you can,t convince the
Emmings: If the plan you'reit is and you have Mr. Langeexperience and background, IDNR that you should have it.
Rivkin: The problem is,.this has happened. a lot. When you have to go headto head wiEh the DNR you're going to io"e te""use thatrs their power. No,r can not bring in expert witnesses thaE will coun.er trreir argumentsbecause they stil1 wolld n:i.i1sue- a permit even Ehough everybody and hisbroEher could be conv.inced
_ rhaE the *:t r- b;in;' j;'i" .ignt. rhey,Ilstill be a stick in the. mud. They,Il silt. .rot .pi.orr" lil,r"t becausethey are ashamed to go back on trr6i i ow-n opinioni-and Ehis is just pasthistory. ?his is their nehavior.--- -""
Emmings:
build it.But if they won't issue you a permit then you,re not going tosee, that'!s the probrem. youire going to have to ""i"ini"-it"*.Conrad: That's the truth.
Rivkin: I woutd like you to take a vote an,l send a signa1...
conrad: you'lr hear what ce're going to do in a few seconds. Just acoupre of thoughEs- r'!ve been around for a .few years Longer than the otmembers on the commission and that puts me into the ord hislorian ror.e b$'hen but let me give y.ou some backgiound to Ehe eretrands -liotection
ordinance- . Basical-ry it took z or r years to come up with and thecommunity is real sensitive to wetraid arteration, "i"i.""rlj. we,re one
er
ck
h
a
of
Planning Cornmission Meeting
Eebruary 1I, 1987 - page 2g
Planning
Eebruary
Commissionr1, r987 -
Meeting
Page 21
(
the few who have a permit process like you're going Ehrough right no!r.
Yourre one of the first that is really testing a few sections of it and the-
test really says, are you really providing an asset or are there potential
negatives? The way I read it right now, I see more negatives than
positives. The fish, I don't think there are any game fish in there so
vrhatever you do, yourre not doing anything, r.rhether you aerate it or not so
Irm not seeing any positives and therefore, if I vrere to test the Ordinance
as to the philosphy and I donrt know if Jo Ann gave you the wetland
ordinance, but there is a philosphy. There is a rationale for grantins -alteration permits anal I think you should take a look at that. I think the
Planning Commission should get those sections, which we don't have here,
that sets us up for why we vrould grant a variance. You make a lot of good -arguments for and I think if we see those good arguments, those are going
to be the positives that will allow us granting that variance but right
now, to echo what some members to my right say, the plan has changed and
when f see a plan changing so many t-imeJ, I do;'t know what r'n reacting -
to. I saw one. I sa!, some other sPecs and $rhen I see varying specs, I
canr t make a motion because I donrt know $rhat we're making a motion to and
when we do that, Irm not sure vrhaE other advisory agencies are reaIIy
reacting to. It gets us aI1 snarled up. I see conflicting info. I see
the speis changing. I don't see documentation from some folks that r would
like lo see documentation on. I guess Irm very worried about the
precedent. It's not yours. Nol.rr. Irm wo-rried about vrhat are we saying to
Lverybody else? that you can build ponds. There are other cases e,rhere
dredging- is not good and I can quote you several that I've been through
*f,..-" ai"aging c-an be very detrimental and the DNR says no and the lakes in-
chanhassen -they wilr say that too. I don't know, it's probably noE the
truth in your la." but Jgain, I can see that scenario as a potential
negative. The loosestrife is an issue that I guess rre should know about
"n6 w" have Some technical informaEion that tells me we should be at ease
about that. Again, I see enough issues Ehat I'm unsettled hrith that I
couldn't say tliat there are more posiEives confirmed then neqatives,
potential, and I,m rLaIfy "onc"rnld about Ehe precedenE also- I think in
lh" Iong run you probably have a pretty good project and I think werre
qoing to be abte to go along lrith it. but again, I would like to see t.he
ie"n,iicaf informatioi come together. One plan come together. The
iniormation coming back. I would like to see those things in one place.
iiif "top there. -Tho". ,r" my concerns and I guess I would be in favor of
iabling ilso until we get some of those things lined up'
Rivkin: one nore response. I guess in the inEerest of trying to get
someth ing Ehrough, I know that if I try for a pond I m ight as well f orget
i[. - wtut- r'1I d; is II pull back and r'11 compromise. The DNR has
already stated that they are willing to go with the channel as proposed
and a lmall turnaround, 16 square feet. If that is agreeable vrith you and
it's agreeable to them, would you consider passing something" '
conrad: I guess my preference rrould be to see that. come back. I donrt
knol, hovJ quickly we can turn that around. I lose stuff that says I'Il
negotiate tr"re ,itt you rather than something on paPer. Again, I get a
tiitfe bit nervous witn that and I don'E want to speak for the Planning
Pl-anning
February
Commission
It, 1987 -
Meet i ng
Page 22
Rivkin: I'11 have pLans and specsinto the City Council. I think theget it in this winter yet becauseend of the channel.
Commission but I guess
to do is to come back inthat.
Ernmings: Has the DNR
Erhart: I feel werre
on her desk in two days so it
DNR lrill issue a permit fastthey have approved a 46 by 40
my preference $rould be if that's what you would liketwo weeks and Irm not sure where we'11 go with
approved anyth i ng ?
being roused to influence Ehe DNR quite frankly.
them so Irmis. Itrs inlike you to
can get
enough tofoot at the
go ing
the
vote
Conrad: I do too.
Rivkin: They recommended it in their Staff report.
Enmings: But r don't knoi{ what they're doing down there and frankry, r'mas concerned about th€m.as.I am about your pioject. I like your projectand r wish you courd just show us that ""..yt"dy *o"ra go.rong with it andthat t-here's .not going tc be any problems witt it. r ,6ora-upprove it in asecond but right now, r don'.t know what the DNR is rooxing-ut and r $rouldLike to see whaE they say before we act.
Rivkin: I don't have the Eime, money or energy to fightto c_o-mpromise and go with whatever tlheir recommendaEionStaff Report for a channel and 40 by 40 foot and I wouldon it so I can get on with my life.
orsen: The DNR has t_o.-_co.ordinate input from a1r. different offices and it,sa little tough' The DNR.has been -ryG to negotiate wiEh irre appricant.As far as the most recent recommendJtion, the ieparati.on-or-tn" pond andthe channel, they are saying now, even a 4g by 40 could really bedetrimental and encourage rough fish. Howevei, the DNR stiit aoes not havea definite recommendation. a! approving what r have in the staff Report isnot necessarily what the DNR witf appro-ue.
Headla: What does the Watershed vrant? Whatcomments? I hear second hand, third hand.writing.
does the DNR?I would like to are thei rit in
ilhat
see
Enmings moved, Erhart seconded to tabre the wetland Alteration permit tocreaEe an open water habitat for waterfovrr and private u"".=a for one canoeon Lake Lucy on property zoned R-R, Rurar Resid-ence and io"uu.o on Lot 5,Brock 2, Lake Lucy Highlands until the planning commission -i.= . prun th"thas been apProved by the DNR and the watershed District and that Ehe publichearing wilr be continued and notice wirr be given to uri'tt" rando$rnersthat the new ordinance requires. Alr voted ii favor of tuuring th; it;;and motion carried.
ila-0?733-01 PBOTECTED WATERS
PERMIT
P.A l!aoa r
87-6190
in th.
enich
coursa r
INNESOTA
alers
?ursuant to llinnesota Statut.s, Chaptcr 105, and on thc basis of statcrcnts and inforration contain.d
per.it application, Iett!rs, .aps and plans sub.itt.d by the applicant and oth!rs supporting data. alI tf
a.e .ade a part h.rcof by rcfercnce, Pt[tISSlot lS lltRt8l GRtlIto to th! applic.nt na.cd b.lor to changc th.
cur.lntr or cross s.ction of thr follorinq:
P.otccted lat.r
Lake Luc ( 10- 7 )
Add.€ss (llo. E Str.!t, RFD, 8ox Io., City, Stat., Zip Codc)
5525 Conifer TraiL, l,linnetonka, MN 55345
This p.r.it ls grantcd subjcct to thc folloring GEilEiAL aod SPECIAL PR0VISIOxS:
GTXERAL PROVISIOIIS
Ihis prrrit is pcrrissivc only and shall not releas. thr prrrittte fror any liability or c5Ii9a!icn iEpcs.d
by l{inn€sota Statut.s, Federal Lar or local ordinances relating thereto and shall renain in forcr subject to
aI. conditions and liritations nov or hcreaft!r irposed by lar.
lh..s prrrit is not assignable cxc.pt rith tha vritten cons.nt of th. Co.rissioncr of llatural Rrsourccs.
Ihe Regional Hydrol0gist shall be notificd at least firG days in advance of tha coitoenc.rant of th. rork autho'i!:C
hcieundcr aod shall b. notified of its corplrtion rithin fiv. days th.r..ft... Th! notic. of pcrait iss:ee
by th. Coniissioncr shall bc kcpt sccurcly posted in a ..nspicuous place at thc sitc of operations.
llo changc shall ba oad., eithout sritt!6 lernrissian r'.:viousl'/:b:ai'rad f'er !5e farill::iax.r cf l:aturel lEsc.rrces.
in the dioensions, capacity or location oi any itais of ro.k autho.i?.d hareunder.
Thr perrittce shall g.ant acc!ss to thr sit. at aIl reasonable tir!s during and aftcr const.uction to autho.ited
rcprrs.ntativ.s of thc Co..issione. of llatu.al Resourccs for inspection of thr ro.l authorizrd hrrrundlr.
Ihis prr.it ray bG t€..inatGd by tha Corrissioner of l{atural f,!sou.ccs at any tina he dccrs it ncce:sary for
the cons€rvation of rate..eEourc.s of th. state, or in thr interest of public hralth and velfarc, or fcr violatirn
of any of the p.ovisions of this pa.rit. unltss otherrise providcd in thc Special Provisions.
Const.uction york authorizrd undcr this Derrit shalI b. conpl!t!d on or bcfor! datc specifitd zbov.. Upon vritt.n
rcqu!st to thc Corrissioner by thc P.rrittrG. statinq thr re'son the'efort' an ertrnsion of ti" 'ay b€ obtai'ei'
Ih. Grcavation of soil authorizad har.in shall not bc coostru.d to includc thr r..oval of organic .att.. (as
indicatcd abovc) unlcss thG ar.a fror rhich such organic 'atte' is rcrovcd' is ilpervious' or is sralrd by
th. applisatiotl of bcntonite aft.r !xcavation.
In aIl cescs rh.rr th. doing by th. pcrrittcc of anything authorized by this p!..it shall inYoIv. thc t.king.
usingr or daraging of any p.op.rty rights o. intc.rsts of any othar p!.90n ol p!rsons' o. of any publicly ornco
lands or i.prov..ants th!rcon o. intrr.sts th.rain. thr pcrrittcc, b3iorc procccding the.rrith, shall obtain
tl? rrittrn cons!nt of all pcrsons. agcncies, or authoritics conc?rn!dt and shall acquirc all p.op?rty, rights
and intc..rts ncc.ssarf th!r.forc.
Oepa.hent o,
Drvlslon ol
ural Resources
9
2
3
5
6
6
I
ila.. of Applicant
Eric M. Rivkin
Tcl?phon. tturbcr (includr Arca Code)
(6121 934-2363
lutho.i.cd to:
excavate channel through 400 feet of cattail with a rEximum top rridth of 16 feet, a
depth of no greater than 4 feet (to el.evation 952.1 NGVD. 1929) below the ordinary high
lva ter level, and 2:1 (hori.zontaf to vertical) side slopes, aI.I as shown i.n plan revised
October 2, !93'l and received October 6, 1987.
2urpos. of Pr.iit:
lake access by canoe
Erpiration oat. of P.r. i t
6 /30 /88
Propcrty Ocscribcd as: 6ey. Lot Ir Lot 5, BLock 2, Lake Lucy
High]and, SEt, Section 3, T116N, R23w; Stelfa! Court, City o
county cARvER
Chanhassen
As Indicatcd: (ll)
the oldinary hj.gh uater leve1 956.1 NGVD, 19
As I ndicatcd: (8)
does not appLy
fi1
Co u.tt y
lc' This perrit is pcrrissive only' Io liabirity shall be in,posed upon or in.urred by the stat. of rinnesota orany of its officers' aqtnts or enployces, oiriaially or pcrsonally, on account of th. ar.nting hcrcof or onaccount cf any danage to any person c' o.opertv rcs'lting fronr any act or orission of the geriitt.! o. anvof its agents' elployccs' or contractors tai"tl"g io- any natter hercundcr. This DerEit shalr not bc construedas estopping or liritinq any ltgal clairs or "iir,t or action of any pc.son ott e" ,an the stat. against theperrittec' its agents' crployccs, or contractors, ro'" any- aa""g. or injury resulting frol any such act or o.ission,or as estoppinq or liriting any legal clain or rioht or "",ion "r $,.'.t"i. ,g"in., ,n. pcrrittcc, its agrnts,
;::]"'""t'
or contracto's for violation or o" r"itr.. to corply eith the pei"it o" applicablc provisions of
11. l.lo nraterial crcavatid by authority ofshall be placed on ary portion of thc
- 12. Any ertension of the surface of saidraters and lcft open and unobstructed
I3. This perrnit do.s not
Post 0ffi c! and Custor
obviate any requirement for federal assent
House, St. Paul, ilinnesota 55l0l,
this pe..it nor laterial f.o. any othcr
bcd of said ratc.s rhich lies belor (as
raters rcsulting fror york authoriuedfor use by the public.
the contracto! has received
be deposited or
be redepos 1led
froa the tl.S. Corps of Enginecrs, lI35 U.S
source, exccpt as specificd hcrein.
indicated abo ve ).
by this perrit shall bccorc p.otectcd
requjrements o! standalds of thefederal, state or local agencj.es.
and thoroughl.y understands aLl
19.
The per:nittee shal I
Minnesota pollution
Pernittee shall ensure thatconditions of this perrnit.
Excdvated md ter id -I s shdLl. not:naDner where the ndterid.j.s cdnhigh h,ater or stor:r runoff.
SPECIIT PROYISIOXS
comp.Ly rrrith al.L ru.Les, regulations,Contro.l Agency and other appLicabl.e
Future maintenance excavation of this project sharr not exceed the dimensions helein autho!-ized' Plj'or to corlTencing any naintendnce excavation, permittee .tuii-uori"" the Departmentof NaturaL Resources (DNR) in lrliting "f ah" ;;i;r" of :narerj.dl to be renoved, the nannerof renovar, and rhe spoiJ. disposaa "i..i"i'i.ri"".o. lraintenance .;;";;;.." sharL not becoxl.nenced unti.L pernittee rece-ives OSn approra-i.-
stored dlong si.de the prorecteci waterinto Ere protected *ate. i:y redsoDdble
l.nd
expectei
when feasible and plactical, excdvation shar.r. be conducted fron r.dndward aleas to theprotected ir'ater and breakthrough snar:. o.cr. ai-an" ,.ra practical ;;;.;.. prior to f ina.Lii:lliiTlill.T:"ili.:ii',;":;:m"I:::":-:,:;.."..d so rhat i, i. l;;;,a,d or rhe break_
Permittee shal.r conpl], t,i.th the conditi.ons of the Ri.r.ey purgatory Br.ufi creek watelshedDistrjct as set forth j.n their tetter aatea O.ioO", 7, fg,jj. SpecificaL.ty:
1' ?he District vil1 require that ar.r !,rork undeltaken in the r.ake be compfeEed during the1987-1988 rrinter months betueen tr.,. p.rt"a-Ji Decelnber r, rgSi;; ;;;.n L, 1988. workundertaken during thj.s peliod t,it.l .i"i"ir"-an. potenrial. or a protr]from developing within the lake. PvLEr'Lrar or a prob-Iem, sedimentation,
At the toe of slope where excavated mate!.ial is to be spoil,ed, erosj.on (sirt fence' and/or staked hav bares ."i.,i or..i-ri trr snow ..r,.", ,r*i-i"rilillir$]r"."",
i:i:::;:::: I I'ij;.tn" bottom rlap,,"'i-i.'buried dnd tr,e'maximui arlowabre spacins
::,:::j:"i;j:";f::i"":i.#"Hi:,:i:.1#:.::::":i.:';::t ;: :.:;"r'lj;,li::;r::""'
ATTACHME{T A
2
Authori zcd Signtt f
moe
Iitle
RegioDal. H ydrologist
0. t.
z{/82XentLok
6
1
-r.g -- --_.-!i.-\
Attachnent A
Permit 87-6190
Eric Rivkin
cc: uscoE
Carver County SWCD
Riley Purgatory Bluff creek wSD
City of Chanhassen r-l--
DNR Metro Fisheries
Jon Parker, AwM
St. Paul llatels
Lake Lucy fj.Ie ( l0-7 )
Kent ok , Regj.onal HydroJ-ogist
3
4
zt/tu?
Date
AlJ. areas aJ,tered, spoil area, must be restored with seed and disced muLch, sod or wood
fibe! blanket r.ithin tlro weeks from the compleLion of construction or no }ater than
June 1, 1988.
The District must be notified in writing a minimum of 48 hours prior to the corunence-
ment of construction.
O.- /:J*;
z/^/t*
A^ g;
aL -0#a *4i "!!
,h
-L.r-Or- *--rl9ry,*C4n\<-rt4^e-l l-*l* '?t)-+*
T a*!,A C/rn1 *AL /4-44*x ilJ ar+<2/r4.--t-H
./.-
"Jfl4 Z.^1 -/.r'^il,*,lfra
!*^ru,--/ilJ "A;* /&
/*
,fr ll p.& H
A4az-r4-
.*% z/-I G'u
4- ,.7"-1r'
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
RECEIVED
rl i r;6 i9:j7
a*<.L-z-<-
X c^e?r-1
Sro
CHAi:!.IASSEN PLINNING DEP'I.
"llrffi.i+l,i"sg'
Zr**0.7,
4//Z(
D^vrD I.. Gr^NNrs - 1874-1961
D^vrD L. GRANNE, JR. - l9lO-1980
V^NCE B. Gr^NNrs
V^NCE B. GR^NNrs, JR
PATrlcK A. FATRELT
D^vrD L. GR^NN6, III
RocER N. KN!.rroN
L^w OFrrcEs
PtorEsstoNAL Assoct^TroN
Posr OFFTCE Box 57
,(), NoT,vEsT BANX BUTTDING
16l Nof,TH CoNcorD Exclr^NGE
Souru Sr. PAUL, MrNNEsor^ ,t07,
TEIIPHoNr: (612) 45t-1661
December 1, 1987
TErlCoPTR:
(612) 4rr-2)t9
D vtD L HAI.MEYET
M. Csc[r^ R^Y
EuJorr B. KNErscH
MrcHAELJ. MAYEI
Ms. Jo Ann olsen
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, l4innesota
RNK: srn
;- GRAI{I{rS,
KNUTSON P.A.
N.
147
55317
RE: Rivkin wetland Alteration Permit Application
Dear Jo Ann:
Mr. Rivkin has applied for a wetl-and alteration permit' You
have recommended that a boardwalk be constructed to give hin
access to open wateri he prefers to create an open channel' His
attorney hai advised him that a boardwalk may expose him t9
Iiability for anyone iniured by it. He should check with his
insurancL agent Lo determine if his home owner's insurance gives
him adequate coverage. Assuming the boardwalk creates greater
liability exposure ior the applicant than an open water channel,
the fact is not germane under wetland alternation permit
requirements. rf he does not r'rant to accept the liability
.*io".r." created by the boardwalk, he always has the right to do
nothing.
/'Vetv('tru$ .yours ,
i/BY:
FARR}
e'r -)-l
on
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CHANHASSEN PLANNIi'iG DEPT'
sl\
GnaNNrs, GnaNr.trs, Fan nrrr & KNUTsoN
t1
8 June 1987
Ms. Judy Boudreau
Area Hydrologist
Metro Region Div. Waters, DNR
1200 Warner Rd.
St. Paul, Mn. 55106
Dear Ms. Boudreau:
I have reviewed yourconcerns regarding the channel and pond excavation and amresponding with a modified plan and detailed explanation. The following list of- -
people confened with me:
Clitford Reep, Shoreline consultatnt
Scott Thomas, Hyd. Soils Engineer, Twin Cities Testing Lab
Cameron Kruse, P.E.,Vice pres-Engineering, Braun Eig. Testing
Jerry Sundee, Hyd. Soils Eng., Sundee Eng-.
Mary Ruhme, City of Richfietd -
Anne Sigfurd, Director, Woodlake Nature Center
wit reoard o the dis nensino of the c annel s ils:Notice on therevised plan that the spoils lrom th
100 yr. flood plan (957 elev.). This
to be in agreement with the City of
and the DNR's initial comments of
e channel will now be brought upland above thewill minimize impact on the wetland and seems
Chanhassen's Wetland Alterations Ordinance
Feb. 11 (see att.).
wilh:egard to the plan as a whole: you will also be pleased to notice thatthe pond has been eriminated . This was also done to ressen tne impao on t-newetland by drastically reducing the amount of dredging and is limited to theminimum size required ror rhe proposed action. Th! design is now only a channelwith a minimum boat turnaround or 1600 sq. ft. (top surfaie) eqrirareniio tne -
40x4o area previousry recommended by the Fisheries oepahmbnt in the DNRinitial comments ol Feb. 1 1.
with reoard to the channel slou hino:After discussion with various
hydrological solls engineers, the 1 :1 slope rb too steep and a 2:1 slope would bemuch better. sloughing will occur to some degree no matter what stbpe is useo
because the materials are moslly muck and water, and an accurate slbpe can -
never really be maintained. To cut a 4'deep channel in a marsh, one must make itjust wide enough to minimize sloughing and not be conducive to iapid
re-establishment ot cattails orweed growth. starting with a 2:1 slope, this would
make the channel 16'wide at the surface. sometimes starting with a g:1 or a 4:1
slope will reduce the sloughing rate further, but it will also carJse an
environmentally unacceptable top width.
There would still be no guarantee that a particular sloughing rate will occur, even
after exhaustive soil testing. The soils engineers wrrom I sp-ore with felt it washighly unproductive to the project to have soil testing done in the channel area to '--- .'- -l
f'UG L , ij37
, ly oc CHANHASSFTI
determine slope stability. To make a reliable recommendation, they must obtain
enough samples along the length and width of the channel area and surrounding
area in orderto make any worthwhile estimations of sloughing rate or stability. ln
combination with the fact that the samples will be ditficult to obtain, they said that
the cost would go well into the thousands of dollars making it unreasonably
expensive, thus in eifect denying me lhe open waler access.
Uncontrollable variablessuch as lreezefthaw cycling, freeze depth, variable water
depth, and natural wave action make it nearly impossible to predict what the
sloughing will do over time. Being a dead-end semi-private, short narrow channel
means that the wave action lrom speeding boats and the boat wake and prop wash
typically associated with serious sloughing problems will be almost nonexistent
and cannot be factored in as a serious cause of sloughing.
I agree with the principle ol soil testing when its necessary and productive,
especially lo larger, more involved projects, but in this case it seems clearly an
unreasonable and unnecessary requiremement.
ln addition, it is mainly lo mydisadvantage that the channel may slough in. When
plant regrowth occurs over time, it is to human disadvantage if channel passage is
restricted. lt is inconceivable that plants orwildlife will be harmed itthe channel lills
in very slowly with vegetation due lo sloughing. Even il it sloughs in to an
appreciable degree many years hence, the channel may still be passable.
No soils experts familiar with this type of channel construclion that I spoke to
thought a 16' W x 4' D channel will completely lill in and be totally impassable in
the near or distant future. After construction, I plan to "let it go natural" with no
interference. Any alteration of course to reopen any part of the channel should it
become impassable will require a DNR permit and conditions can be reviewed at
that time.The modest 16' width al lhe surface with a 4' DNR-recommended depth
for prop clearance is a good compromise and is still narrower than 20'which the
DNR told me originally was a typical single party channel width.
Thp nl lowino con di t o n s will al!blv durino eonstr uclf on:
l.spoils from the construction will be disposed of upland in lhe area shown on the
drawing, and will be spread to proposed topography as soon as moisture content
of soil will permit.
2. To minimize disturbance to wildlife by preventing construction during waterfowl
breeding season and fish spawning season, and minimize silt entry int-o tne raxe,construction will lake place in winter months when ice can suppori equipment.
3. To further minimize silt entry into the lake, a banier will be left at the end of thechannel until construction is completed and settling permits removal of tha barriei.The channel will be constructed from the lake towlio tre upland with aoffine.Note: lt is not possible to dig the upland end lirst since that is the "r""ln" s-rroir.must be transported through during construction. This will force tt,e macninJ,y
-
operators 10 trample over mature dogwoods in the wetland and cause
" sereiesafety hazard to the 2 dump trucks and the operators if forced to trir"r
" li""i",distance overthe ice to dump.the spoils upland . silt entry to the lake an'd damag"to the environment are the main concems, and digging trom tne rare to ine upianowill be least disruptive to the environment and sat6it tbr tne construction
"reri anomachinery. A silt ditch of 2'depth will be excavated in area shown. Ail
"rpor.Jsoil up-land will be temporarily seeded with ryegrass mir:ture ano mutcneo winstraw for erosion control. Final seeding witttonsist of prairie n".toratio*, in",short prairie grass mix #1 or equivalent.
4.... . lngress and egress for the dumptrucks hauring the spoirs to the disposar areawill be.between the existing dogwood hedges indidated on the drawing.'Th;; -
are not to be dlsturbed.
With reoard to an alternative dock system: Doing absolutely nothing to the
wetland , no docks included, may be intellectually an opinion of the farthest extent
of the word minimal, bul minimal does not mean to do nothing, but to design
using the fewest and sirrpresl elements with the ,eas, impact lo aclrrbve the
desired result-which is lawful right to open water access. A dock system in this
case may also have minimal impact, but in no way is "fewest'or "simplest', either in
enhancement to the wetlands, safety to wildlife or humans, or in reasonable
resources to achieve access because of its gross size ol 430'.
As you can see lrom the attached estimate, the cost is so exhorbitant that it makes it
impossible to achieve the desired result, lrus ln etfect denying the right to
open water access. ll the distance were much shorter, it would be a viable
alternative and less impacl on the wetland, and may not be obiectionable by the
other residents as an eyesore on the wetland. Please note that the neighbors
voiced strong opposition to the long dock system, and heavy lavorlo the channel
idea instead through letters sent lo me (atlached) and through opinions expressed
at the City's Planning Commission hearing where my lirst proposal was presented.
At the hearing, there was not one resident who stood up in lavor ol the dock
proposal, nor did I hear any positive comments from any members of the Planning
Commission on the dock proposal. The other residents who spoke up and myself
got lhe impression that the majority of the Planning Commission lelt that the
channel, or even the pond lor that matter would not have been harmful to the
environment. Although we agree in principle to protection of the wetlands by law,
the residents and I felt that since the area of the channel was so minute(only .01%
of the total 50+ acre wetland area) it would not have a negative impact. lf every
lakeshore resident on lake Lucy that had the same reason to cut a channel in
similar fashion to my proposal, either now or in the distant future , the total area ol
wetland lost would be only about 1-2/" ol the 50 or so acres ol wetland. That can
also be interpreted as minimal impact to the wetland. I suggest that the
eutrophication rate and subsequent rapid weed growth now occuning on Lake
Lucy is probably fillingin more open water and creating more wetland than my
scratch-oia-channel will take away. This means the impact may still be zero as the
open water continues to fill in with another.0l% of sedimentation and vegetation.
The residents and I feel strongly that the dock will be extremely difticult to maintain
and deteriorate more rapidly than usual. Because of its huge size, it cannot be
expected to be removed in the winter , and will gradually become a piece of junk in
the wetland. lt will also be a serious hazard to snowmobilers because it covers
such a long area hidden in the tall cattail reeds. lt will also cross an established
deer trail which has been observed to be used daily by many deer for several
years. At least four residents at the west end of the lake do confirm that the deer
iike to graze and retreat in the wetland regularly, and when deer bound through,
a 1-2 foot high dock would be a safety hazard. Mr. Ridderson indicated in his letter
his eyewitnels account of a deer breaking his nec! trying to break free from a dock
while being chased bY a dog.
I want lo add that I am nol convinced that Ms. Olsen's proposal for a long dock
system will not harm the wetland. More affordable dock materials such as
ln conclusion: The decision by the city pranning commission to tabre myproject.was due lo more questions being raised tf,an answered, and what thevrequesled for the next meeting was approval of a plan from the'DNR ail;;'watershed District so the planning commission can make a confident decision thenext time this plan is on the agenda. I hope you will ail find the ,";prdoJ; '
satisfactory solution.
Thank you for your consideration. prease- cail-me ir you have any questions. Myphone numbers arc 937-4048 at work or 934-2363 at home on r-rioiys. copieittthe revised drawing and this memo have also been sent to JoAnn oisen, and BobObermeyer.
Sincerely,
Y, //,/ri
Eric Rivkin
5525 Conifer Trail
Minnetonka, Mn. 55345
pressure-treated woods typically used for permanent dock posts and decking
contain inorganic arsenicals, which are highly toxic cancer-causing chemicais that
can leach out into the water. That's not a comforting thought, and lwouldn't be
surprised someday to see pressure-treated lumber banned from open water
applications before its too late to discover ils a more serious pollution and heatth
hazard than we think. see the attached EpA report on restricied uses of wood
preservatives and Dr. Foreman's toxicological evaluation of leachable arsenic.
I looked into the next least expensive atteinative that wouldn,t seem to harm theenvironment, which was the galvanized steel post method I asked the serv-a Dockco. to quote (attached). The other local dock companies capable or qualified roinstall a dock either refused to quote the job or did'not return the inquiry.
The favorable opinions of some members of the planning commission and the
attached testimonials of neighbors indicated the strong Jommunity support foi mychannel,.and.l can assure you that this support will be iepeated, if-not Lironger thesecond time I present the revised plan at the next planning comm. meetingi Thedock system is not an acceptabre arternative, and I beriev6 that the n"* fripo..oplan does Dave minimal impact and stops just short of having to l."rort tJ
" io"x.
I understand Ms. olsen's well-meaning position that she must try to enforce thewetlands ordinance, and I would be the first to stand behind it if it were a realistic,beautiful, and safe alternative to achieve lake access, but in this case the d;;k -
proposal will in effect deny rhe right to open water access because of its high cost,and.be an unsafe.eyesore on the wetrand. r arso encrosed a copy or tne qu6tationsfor the channer digging so you know the difference in costs beiween tnair.rnooand a dock system- Dock system: $19,000; Channel: $2OOO - 95750.
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United States
Environmental Protection
Agency
Olrice ot
Publc Alrairs (A- 1071
Washrngton OC 20460
Environmental News
FOR RELEASE:WEDNESDAY
A1 Heier
11, 1984
382-437 4
JULY
1202!
EPA RESTRICTS
USES OF WOOD
PRESERVATIVES
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency today
three esticides useil to reserve wood:creosote,
In addit.ion, the corunercial wood pressure treatmenC
required to participate in a consumer airareness program
pressure-trea ted wood or treated wood proilucts.
i norgani c arsenlca 1s.
The agencyrs final action restrict.s the sale and use of the wood pre-
servatives to cert.ified applicators. UntiI now, anyone could purchase and
use these preservatives arounil homes antl farms. These pesticides accountfor over 97 percent of the wood preservatives used in this country antl for
one third of a1I agricultural and industrial pesticides (2.7 billion
pounals) produced in the U.S.
imposed restrictions on
pentach 10 rophenol , and
industry will beto inform users of
EPA wilI require appropriate protective clothing, such as gloves and
coveralls impervious to the chemicals, in certain applications of the wood
preservatives and in handting freshly treated wood. Respirators will be
required in certain high exposure situations.
The registrants of pentachlorophenol wiIl also be required to limit
immediately lhe dioxin contamination ( hexachlorodi benzop-d i oxin or IIXCCD )in pentachlorophenol to 15 parts per million (ppm) antl to reduce that
level to one ppm within 18 months. The more potent 2,3r7,8 tetrachloro-
ili ben zo-p-dioxin (213r7r8-TCDD) has not been found nor will it be per-
mitted in pentach lorophenol .
EPA said that without these restrictions, the risk to public health
from using these pesticides would outweigh the benefits
The agencyrs decision is basecl on evidence that (I) creosote causes
cancer in laboratory animals and has been associated with skin cancer in
some workers occupationally exposed to creosoEei (2) a dioxin contaminant
(HXCDD) in pentachlorophenol has been shoirn to cause cancer in laboratory
animalsi and (3) arsenic has been shown in epidemioloqy studies to be
associated with &iEi-in Eurna-n s who either dianX water contaminated with
arsenlc or 9,o rea e a].r con at-n1n arsenr.c.na on, pen ac o ro-
p eno and r norga n r c arsenicals causes defects to tbe offspring of fabor
ef ects (qene defects) in bact erla an Iaboratory animals.
en 1ctoranimals. Creosote an nor
SrEPA
-3-
Applicators must not eat, drink, or use tobacco products during theapplication process, which may expose them to thi pesticiaeformurations. workers.are requir-d to wash thorouihly aiier stincontact and before eating, drinking, use of tobacc6 pioducts or usingrestrooms.
of all pentachlorophenol products must include awomen during pregnancy should be avoided becausebeen shown to cause defects in the offspring of
Pentachlorophenol and creosote cannot be applied indoors.
Pentachlorophenor cannot be appried to eood intended for use in in-teriors, except for millwork i;ith out-door surfaces) and supportstructures which are in contact rith the soir in uar""l "tiuiis, andsimilar sites and which.are subject to decay or insecL infestation.sealer must be applied in those instances.
Creosote cannot be applied to wood intended toexcept for those support structures which arein barns, stables, and sinil,ar sites and whichinsect infestat.ion. A seaLer must be applied.
The label s
exposure to
ophenol has
animal s .
PentachlorophenoJ_ or creosote must notcontamination of feed, food, drinking
be used in interiorsin contact with the soilare subject to decay or
warning that
pentach Ior-
l abo ratory
The appr_ication of pentachlorophenol to rogs for construction of roghomes wilI be prohibi ted.
If creosote- or pentachlorophenol is applied towhere it will be exposed to Uody contilt, twosealants-must be applied. Urethane, epoxy andsealers for creosote-treateal wood. Urithane,enamel , and varnish are acceptable sealers forwood.
wood intended to be usedcoats of appropriateshellac are acceptableshel1ac, Iatex epoxypentach lorophenol -trea ted
useil where there mayirrigAtion hrater.
bebe
or
The Consumer Awareness pro ram wilI require wood pres sur e-trea ter s to sendCons umer In orma t on eets w t t eac I n o trea hro 1S ln orm-siE10n w]'ema e avar a e l.n aces vr rea e wo sso ns ruc-t onsumers a out an 1n ec nt ues, suc as euseo pro rve g oves ancoverasanace mas S r.,en Salrrl n rea woo ro uc s.e rn orma r- onsheetWIrecommend a nst euseo t{o tr ea te an et reerservativelnroximittooodeed, an u I cdr ln IN water .teriors of farm bui lttingd where domes t c anrma s are un I e v o lc bi te
coats:he wood, pent achlorophenol and creosote-treated wood may be used ifed._>f an approved sealant are appl i
or
two
The infornation sheet wilI also recommend that consumers avoid flequent and>rolonged skin contact with pentachlorophenol and creosoie-trea ted wood such as'{'reated lawn chairs and othei outiloor firrniture unless two coats of an effec-tive sealer have been applied. nii-ireatea wooa uieJ-toi-patios , decks,
n n-
901 S. wolcott st. r P.O. Box 5998, Chicago, ILL. 60680 Tel . (312) 996-7638
To: The
Subject:
Portland Cement Association
Toxicological evaluation of leachable arsenic in
labeled plywooil, based on data supplied by Trace
of test alata:Summa ry
The quantities of arsenic
and, LP-22 labeletl plywoods at the
The values presented are averages
reported by Trace Elements, Inc.
FDN and LP-22
Elements, Inc.
from 3x5x5,/8 inch specimens of FDN
time intervals are summarized be1ow.
samples of each specinen, as
leached
var i ousof three
Sample
FDN
LP-22
Discussion:
I tlay 3 days
4.8 mg. 9.0 mg.
2.7 6.0
7 days
12.0 mg.
8.7
28 days
41.0 ng.
2L.0
50 clays
58.5 mg.
A11 of the staternents contained in my previous report on leachingtests which were conilucted by PCA are applicable to the present tesls.
However, I will summarize a few of the more salient points. The following
biological and physical properties of arsenic are releva-nt to a toxicological
evaluation of results from the current leaching study.
1) A minimum fatal aclult dose of arsenic upon acute ingestion
I00 m9. (I 284 ounce) as recorded in the nTOxIC SUBSTANCES
is approximately
Lrsr, n I97 3
Nat i ona Iedition, U. s. Department of Health, Etlucation.and Welfare,
Institute for Occupational Safety antl Health.
2l Water-soluble arsenic compounils are readi).y absorbed from the
gastro- intesti nal tract, as weII as from skin exposure.
3) Arsenic compounds are extrenely persistent; i.e., they are unaltered in a
toxicological sense, when subjected Eo the usual environmental conditions.
4) Arsenic is a cumulative poison. Thus several exposures to sub-letha1 doses
could result in a fatal body-burden .
5)he uoted lethal dose 1S that for an adult. A lethal dose for small
ch Idren and omest lC an s cou e consr d erably lower.r ma
5)The quoted figures are lethal doses. Toxic effects would be expected at
Iowsei ll oses.
7l Arsenic (ancl chronate) salts are known as
tlisorders.causative agents of serious skin
RONALD L. FOREMAN, Ph. D.
Toxicologi st
30.0
2t
Summa r
-3-
!gr9"g of Comnuni ty Environmental l{anagementDivision of Communi ty Injury Control
U. S. PubLic Health Service-
U. S. Department of Health, Education andNational Institute for Occupati.onat Saiety
Environmental protection Agency
WeI fa re
and Health
arsenlc.?he ressure-trea teal I ood in uestion containstotaba semen oa oofarsistent chem rca c 1S I
b e placed in i nt inat e contact w t ais imperativnust provide
household ocouttloors wit
high leve1s ofrUCreresens a mass ereoxves9At15 ma er a wuman env ronment.
t t
e that all necessary testsconclusive evidence that such use is without hazard
are conducted.Prior to
Results of
r o 1r
1
such use, itthose teststo thecupants.AI thou h treated I ood has ahout incid ent, severa new and unnew use o e r uc as a asemen oun J.Oree of leach !n s acce ta €r I a
a rentl been usedgue cons era t ons arl. se
OS nature, and
from the
I ro
some t
J.upon vrhae bodyoffactslstha t ecl s on ma e?
v rT9 'rer wt*=.?
t ts of the leaching tests performed by Trace Elements Inc. forCement Association conf i rm the results of previous te sts on LP-22cted by PCA. These results show that toxii t evels of arsen
-- hrq( u.,tAl rpdus[
the Portland
plywood condu
- be leached fr om a single 3 x x5 nc samp e of treate ywood. Th e FDN
r.c canpamtreflects thewould urge th- cognizant ofappraisal of
s e h no doubthigher concentration of preservative in FDN labeled plywood. Iat one or all of the fed eral agencies listed in the text be made
use.\
this information. In m yo inion, an ob ective and com rehensivethis apparent hazar s warrante pr r. or oa rova or
RonaLd L. F oreman,Ph.D.
1)
3)
July 10, 1987 ,{-fuudrt- $rz;a.
rqz .r, rzqv +f e_.Russ W'dmer
Widmer,lnc. Excavating
PO Box 219
St. Bonilacius, Mn. 55375
Dear Russ
Please send me a wrinen quotalion ol the construction ol the our lake access on lot 5, block 2 in Lake
Lucy Highlands, as we discussed. ln order to cover all the design possibilities, please quote the three
lollowing designs:
Plan A. 400' long x 16' wide x 4' deep channel and approx. 8450 sq. tt.pond as shown on the
atlached scale drawing.
Plan B. 400' long channel only, no pond.
Plan C. 355' long channel with a 45' diameler (1600 sq. fl.) x 4' deep boat tumaround.
The lollowing conditions will apply during conslruction as they apply to each plan:
2. To minimize disturbance to wildlile, and minimize silt enlry into the lake, conslnrtion will take place
in winler rnonths when ice can supporl equipment.
4. lngress and egress lor the dumptrucks hauling the spoils to the disposal area will be between lhe
existing dogwood hedges indicated on the drawing. These are not lo be dislurbed.
The only parl that I will be responsible ror and you can eliminale from your quote is the rnilching and
seeding. Please send a quolalion soon, so I can proceed to gel a plan approved by the DNR. Thank
you lor your consideration.
Si
ric Rivkin
5525 Coniler Trail
Mtka,Mn.55345 934-2363/937-4014
1 . Spoils lrom the construclion will be disposed ol upland in the area shown on the drawing, and will
be spread to proposed topography as soon as moisture content ot soil will permit.
3. To minimize silt entry into the lake, a banier will be left at the end of the channel until conslruclion is
completed and settling permits removal ol the barrier. The channel will be @nslrucled lrom the lake
toward the upland with a dragline. Note: lt is not possible lo dig the upland end lirst since thal is the
area the spoils musl be transported through during construclion. This will force lhe machinery
operators to trample over malure dogMvoods in the wetland and cause a severe salety hazard to the 2
dump trucks and lhe operalors i, lorced to travel a grealer distance over the ice to dunp lhe spoils
upland . Silt entry to the lake and damage to lhe environment are the main @ncerns, and digging
from lhe lake to lhe upland will be least disruptive to the environmenl and salest lor the conslruction
crew and machinery.
A sitt dilch ol 2' depth will be excavated in area shown. All exposed soil upland will be temporarily
seeded with ryegrass mixture and mulched with straw lor erosion control. Final seeding will consist ol
Prairie Reslorations, Inc, short prairie grass mix #1 or equivalent.
lfirupurul
WIDMER INC.
P.O. Box 219
ST. BONIFACIUS, MINNESOTA 55375
Phone t146.1495
Page No of
, .--:_-44a,. _ a-4<za
-.,-'--*: -Zza-a42-;44
Pages
I
PROPOSAL SUBMITTED TO
STREET
CIIY, STAIE AND ZIP COOE
ITECT
We hereby submit specificatrons and eslimates lor:
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.Jg relotva
lho lien. tre
llt3 inctuded
ths rlght to tile . ttlech.nlcr Llen It bill lr not pald wlthln tho len8lh of tlmc arr.crlbcd by lrr. You .8ro! to p.y all co.t lncurr.d prrt lnl.lgrill ngt be resrDntible ,or.ny undcrground utilltie. th.t c.nnot ba located by the utality cornp.nler or the hotncotncr. Normal claan{p
ln thii p.oposal. There ls no rod ,igured ln thl! proporal. llra rlll not .33urne ihe retponsibility lot water pipe!, trect, llee roott, aprlnkler
iy.temr, etc. unlesr notiried lo eract locatlon prlor to ercavatlng. Fro.t rlpplng ertra charge. lt l. erpre3rly 3tl pul.ted .nd .8re.d that the undertltncd
rhall not b€ held liable ror d.maget to 9...i, trces, ahrub! and lny underground obltruclion3, including pl pe., electrlcal rl.lng rnd .tc. ln biddln8lob
,lgurs roll to dry. ll wet, therg will b€ extr. charSer baied on tlme.nd material.
fff flfnplOf hereby to turnish material and labor - complete in accordance with above specilications lor the sum ol:
dollars ($
to be made as tollows
A lln.ocr ch.r8o ol 1.59{ po. month (189t tnnu.l r.te) rlll bc chr8qd on p.3t due .ccount..
/--;.2 3- "'fO
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all m.i.rial is 8u.nnt..d to D. .a 3!aai6cd. all 6.1 lo b. compl.l.d in a 6.tm..rrl.
mann.r .ctordr.8 lo 3t.nd..d C..clicB. Any .lt.r.tion or d.vr.iion lrcm .boe. sprinc.
t'on. ..6lvina aItr. .oal3 rrll b. ararut.d only lpon rntl.n ord€6. .n.l9rl b6om. an
.nr. .n.rg. ov.r a.d .DoE th...t'n.t!. All .areo.nrs .o.rr.B.nt upon stnt.s..ccd..i3
or d.l.F b€yond our control. Oen.. !o c.rry trrc, lornado.nd oth.r nEesi.ry insu.ancc
Ou. ,0rr.6 .r. lslly .or..d by worlm.n s ComFnsi'o. l.'er.n..
Arr8ptenrP uf frrpural -rhe ar'ove p.ces. speci,ications
and conditrons are salistactory and a/e hereby accepted. You are authorized
lo do thework as specitied P.ymrnt rrill be made as orrtlined above.
Signature
' Notei This proposal may be
withdrawn by us il not accepted wrthrn
Sign.ture
Signature
PHON'7sz-OAIEor'?
JOA NAME
?
L*JOB tOCAiON
oAlE ot PIANS U-.JOB PHONE
Oate ol Acceptance
- r*i- ffi?b
1eO days
3--r'zJ'
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-11
I
May 16, 1987
To:
Richard Olson
15281 County Rd. 40
Carver, Mn.55315
Dear Richard:
Plan B. 400' long channel only, no pond
Plan C. 355' long channel with a 45' diameter ( 1600 sq. tt.) x 4' deep boat lumaround.
The lollowing conditions will apply during construction as they apply lo each plan
I . Spoils from the construction will be disposed ol upland in the area shown on lhe drawing, and will
be spread lo proposed lopography as soon as moisture content ol soil will permit.
2. To minimize distubance to wildlile, and minimize silt entry into the lake, construclion witl lake place
in winler rbnths when ice can support equipment.
3. To minimize sitt entry inlo the lake, a banier will be lett al lhe end ol the channel until conslruction is
completed and settling permits renbval ol the barrier. The channel will be construcled lrom the lake
toward the upland with a dragline. Nole: lt is not possible lo dig the upland end firsl since lhat is the
area the spoils must be transported lhrough during conslruction. This will lorce the machinery
operalors lo trample over mature dogwoods in the wetland and cause a severe salety hazard lo the 2
dump trucks and lhe operators il forced lo travel a greater distance over lhe ice to dump the spoils
upland . Silt entry to the lake and damage lo lhe environmenl are the maln concerns, and digging
,rom the lake to the upland will be least disruplive lo lhe environment and salest lor lhe construction
crew and machinery.
A silt ditch o, 2'depth will be excavated in area shown. All exposed soil uplard will be temporarity
seeded with ryegrass mixlure and mulched with straw for erosion conlrol. Final seedlng will consist of
Prakie Resloralions, lnc, shorl prairie grass mix #1 or equivalenl.
4. lngress and egress for lhe dumptrucks hauling lhe spoils to lhe disposal area will be between the
exisling dogM/ood hedges indicated on lhe drawing. These are not to be disturbed.
Sinpaely,
,/ro)/u /ru
Eric Bivkin
5525 Conirer Trail
Mrka,Mn.55345 934-2363/937-4048
May 31,1987
ful ua rfAzu z& z-r
df,izl//L eaort.- t*- oooo
Ftt'Z *a.at * C
Please send me a wrinen quotalion ot the construclion ol the our lake access on lol 5, block 2 in Lake
Lucy Highlands, as we discussed. ln order to cover atl lhe design possibilities, please quote the three
lollowing designs:
Plan A. 400' long x 16' wide x 4' deep channel and approx. 8450 sq. lt.pond as shown on the
atached scale drawing.
The only part lhat I will be responsible for and you can eliminale lrom your quote is the mulching and
seeding. Please send a quolation by June 8, so I can proceed to get a plan approved by the DNR.
Thank you lor your consideration.
To:
Serv-a-Dock
2115 Alboretum Blvd.
Vicloria, Mn.55386
Dear Sirs
Eric Rivkin
5525 Coniler Trail
Minnetonka, Mn. 55345
z4Z, e,/N: l?7kk€>
44zi.r i ,, 4' ',
Please quote lhe enclosed Dlan lor a. dock system on the enclosed drawings, usirE your cofipanys particular
F:!',fl.i$jEl!id!6i!:fliiiiE,Ei"T#B?g,,Jr?fli:.ffi,:t'E!l#j;itts:j.[*:*ai.,iffi*dock is expecled to be completely permanenl, wilh minimai miinienance anlicipaled . please also fumish vourestimate of the expected tid soad t lre sysrein sysrem Cnoien. i5il[Hnnlrif€-ilfigrt,'"$:ifijii;"'i].'i,i;"'consideration. You will be exoected to provide mdterialsino ribr, as we a! visit thE sitd ano' qo over tne phnwith me betore consrrucrion. 'consrruabn can ui i'n lny ;;;;il;r;rl;6;, ;il;;i;;"H;ifr#i in yo* qror".
x?T:i*yri* liffif.'#'".T'{E Ti'tT'"i?l#""#USB'&Hf):?3St1trHl';:;L',?'l"J}iil:,il, o "chanhassen on.Lake Lucy so you can lind tlie sile'eisily-.-'t witt ue'grio io-se-C you-ii rnj'irri. ir niiessary. Therers no house on the tot as yel, but is due ro go in this year. twoutc ir-e to leithe'dockilffi;;n'il rnomns.
Thank you ,or your consideralion. please send a wrinen quote as soon as posslble.
Sincerely,
/rr; o,r,u-
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SERV.A.DOCK
HWY.5 - VTCTOR|A, MN 55386
2115 ARBORETUM BLVD.
(6121 443-2811
QUOTATION
NAME AODHESS CITY
.(,llr'I r,c?-"1
HOME PHoN-
DATE
/,'/ 8'f,-t
OUOTED BY
EB'i,'fi EY89Ifl ;ffi ii,".Il3L93fllli13,Ii.t11I..?;*EMBLy. aND,f sraLLA.oN ,a
BUSINESS PHONE
DESCRIP?lON PFICE
FIRS?
NIE
t?{sTALL
42" x%" LONG GALV. DOCK SECTTON COMPLETE r at t,.)4)
62" x 96" LONG GALV. PLATFORM COMPLETE
16' x 24' LONG CANOPY BOATHOUSE
16' x 32' LONG CANOPY BOATHOUSE
8' WIOE BENCH (OVERHANGS WATEB)
GALV. LADDER (4 STEPS)
2" x 4" x 6' CEDAR BOAT BUMPERS
GALV. STARTER BRACKET /.o(-
GALV. 90' COBNER BRACKET
30' STABILIZERS
MOORING LINES #
FRAMEWOBK 42" x 96" LONG GALV.BLACK
FBAMEWOBK 62" x 96" LONG
FRAMEWORK 82" x 96" LONG
CEDAR DECK FOR OOCK SECTION
GALV. PIPE FOR DOCK SECTION
BENCH BRACKETS
SEBVICING BARBEL WITH BRACKETS
SLEEVE HAMMER FOR INSTALLATION
LEVELING JACK FOR INSTALLATION
PIPE JACK FOR BEMOVAL
PKG. OF 4 SERVICING TOOLS(FOR SERV-A.DOCK CUSTOMEFS ONLY)
t, 0rk .?ct
{a'>t)J I
NRICE -a/c (L
TAX a )-'
SU8 TOTAL'rq
.INSTALLATION
CHARGE )
TOTALAIIOUNT a;c
CoMMENTS:l], -/. // I r,. pr. ./
P, : ,. ,. , / -i. ! '.' a'.,- ', I
fA" .- .. .. ,:.,1 -, !(...t. 1
,
SAIESMAN
/r,,
'sE'vrcE BTLLED NET 30 AFTEB DATE oF rrusralr_ard.
,y'n^
'l*',ni,;,1"'oFFrcE cop, frrHnE) . cusTouEn copr fiELlOW) .
QUOTEO PRICE GOOD FOR
t rt,.-.1 4' 1.
7. ilt t.,
ffiIIIIIIIIIIIII]rIIIIIIrIIIr
Wdt 6 W.lt rnn Cafi<te6
OTY.UTIT
PRICE
82" x 96" LONG GALV. SUN DECK COMPLETE
18' x 40' LONG CANOPY BOATHOUSE/STEEL SLATS
GALV. FABBICATED DOCK BRACKET
;:, I f
. .. May 27,1987
To:
Mlnnelonka Portablo Dredging Co.
500 W. Lako S:1.
Excolslor, Mn. 55:t31
Dear Slrs:
Edc Rltftln
5525 Conilot Trall
Mlnnstonka, Mn. 55345
June 15, 1987
Dear Mr. Rivkin:
Thank you for your recent inquiry for a dock system. lle are not 'interested
in bidding at th'i s time.
Bi I I N i ccum
Ploaso quole tho onclosod plan lor a dock syslom on lho enclossd drawings, using your conpany'3 patthular .
spsda[y ln rnalerlals. ll your spsc,lalty ls lrealed wood pllirEs, uso a slngle pod system. 1l ]rou uso a galvar{zed
.foLip"S system, tne iost ls not to'bo abve fho level ollne Oocf. Floating systerE are unnacceplable. Ths
Oo"i fi erp"&eO fo be complately permanenl, with minltnal mair enance ar lchalsd . Pleassalso fumlsh your
osflmato ot tho oxpected lif; span Lt tne system syslem chosen. ConsiJering lhe length. cosl wlll be ol prlme
@nsHeratton. You witt be expeaJdto povHe malerials and labot, as well as visit ths sile and.go oror lhe plan
wifh mo beforo conslruc[on. Construciion can bg ln any soason you preler, and pl€ase menllon n ln your quols'
I am golng fhrouoh lhs pToce$ ol Oefllng lhs roquked agency-ap-plovals lo gd a potmlt lor-anorallon ol lhls
woland. My phone ntimbors aro 9-34-ZfOS ttroriet anA 6SZ-lOiti (wod(). Enclosod ls.a m1O 9i wtere tha bl ls ln
Chanhass6n on Lako Luc, so you can flnd the site oasily. I will be glad io so6 yotl a! l.h€-.slto lt necossaty' ThoT
ls m house on the bf as yer, drflJOre fo go fn lhls year. I would l[<e lo gel the dock ln the noxl 12 ]mr hs'
Thank you lor your @nsuerallon. Pleaso send a writlen quolo as soon as possible
H)-/rr.'rru*
May 27, 1987
Water-free docks, lnc
Minnelonka Plaza
Excelsior, Mn. 55331
Dear Sirs:
tl-
Please quote the enclosed Dlan ,or a. dock syslem on lhe enclosed drawings, using your corpanys padicularspeciatty in mareriats. I your speciatty is treateO wooO'oifiniii.-utmetarposr svstem, rhe p6siis fioiro 6elir6,i l-n;i.-,!tii#',ili.:fiH1,".,f.:]j#il:T;rt#!,1??,e.d8l,?l5*dock is expected to be comptetety permanent, ivitn miriiiiji iriin'i;;r;;;i;;iih-;-;,'p;a;ilrirJ+ii;lF;;iliii,ilfiffiilffif 'SiSfrH'lJill""'"lai,f:f;ii"JT,;llJB,'.
considerarion. you wir be exoecred ro pro'vide mi;;aii;;J6br, as werr a! viin inEilijl-rid d6'over rne pranwith me betore consrrucrion. bonsrrucrion can 6il'n-ffi;;;#frdu prele-;,;nai;id&-;;ffi;t, your quore.
!?I:tt'*rf,+y*lliBtT,"'#'.'gr'X'rE$?'t'S'.'i','"3'r'.%6lE'&:1i:)1".fl:Hffil'S:in"i'fi"J),"1,1!,il,,.,"chanhassen on Lake Lucv so vou can rino rie siie'eiiiryl-i diii6e'gr-aoio se!-ft;;ftHs?e? ridcessary. rnereis no house on the lot as v'et, tirt is oue ro d iniiiis yi# r 'ili iiirike ro ger rhe dock in rhe nexr 12 rnonths.
Thank you ror your consideration. prease send a written quote as soon as possibre.
Sincerely,
Edc Rivkin
5525 Coniter Trail
Minnetonka, Mn. 55345
//,7?r 2hvrzd,/Q, 6r)tr6 ?a- utaqt-
P,>oe aw27 - /4d@.
June 16, 1987
Water-Free Docks, Inc.
5 615 I{anitou Road
Excelsior, It{innesota 55331
Eric Rivkin
5525 Conifer Trail
Irlinnetonka, !.tinnesota 5S345
Bidding your Dock is difficult due to all.at this titne that could be involved, until weinstalling the Dock.
Dear Mr. Rivkin;
I, first of all, an very sorry about takinggetting back to you about your Docking needs.
so long tn
of the unknownsactuaLly start
60 - 8t Sections are needed for 430'of Dock. Our Dock
retails for $194.00 per 8r Section, with the anount you need,
you could purchase it for $1
cost of the Sections is $9,5
unknown. I would have to bi
per hour/per !nan. Tine of i
conditions are.
per 8' Section. The totalAt this time, the labor isat this tine at $25.00
would depend on how wet the
for about 2 -3 weeks and I will give you a call
Thank you,
lJ,u
l{m. Gregg smith
lVater - Free Docks, Inc.
59.00
40. 00.d this
nsta11
I will
when I get
be gone
back.
tr^r
I.AND DBVELOP!{EIST APPLICATION
CITY OT CEANEASSETf
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhasseo, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
APPLTCANT: EEtc di/or,l*PIVIJU UIINER2 EaC j //o24,t4 EtVl(N
aoosxss /L/{,TzLLaz a /to r)ADDRESS #2,eaUlF€R 71e*/L
a/14//r/95&v /441t /,1 -ff7rf,Zip Code zip CodeTELEPHONE ( Day
REQT'EST:
ti,ne) ?t7-qoq9 TELEPHONE
'3/-7'b 3
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site Plan Review
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Stree t,/Eas ement Vacat j,on
Wetlands Permit
-PROJECT NA]48 PAP?/4//flu/UGz-70 /4*.€ /-!/4/
PRESENT I,AND USE PI,AN DESIGNATION P6/?€1u'rziL
REOUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATIoN &e c#,+/h, e.
PRESENT ZONING P-/.4
REQUESTED ZONING
USES PROPOSED
-
€
SIZE OF PROPERTY o.3 ,e<,€t lg /c./dP t?2. Fz.?6p €Lev4rr.N
LOCATION IA7,,,dlacz zt //+*G ZtE .n4 .'l a-.h1,/p ,*r+P
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST fO fter* * -€.are ewmfitHt*f F:a, tuarda fuWL # Eit/CtA crp,,ies.t/,.L.a €.w>tzy .tz€)+ @_F/sr/.ffuienrl tEE .+€PZt w?e ,,@t fiL av/€ 4+,/o4./tzrc: aa\t€a,/..taa ?2,? fut4ltr4,Urr,F Ar7-.*74€a ,w /et
c4, 7o #ltrlrc* tl cd,/tz-L, &qpatpw7'a*L/ ar4.r rC zd./)
PTION (Attach 1egal if necessary) l-OT S, Bulr- Z
L*vE: tlt<v It tetttA N D=,
A-ITAaHMqVJT t7
\!{
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch Plan
_ Preliminary plan
_ Final Plan
Subdivision
LEGAL DESCRI
City
Land
Page
of Chanhassen
Development Application
2
This application must be completed in full and be typewritten orclearly printed and must be iccompanied by arl in ro'riaii"" -ina
plans reguired by applicable City Ordinance provisions. Beiorefiring this application' you sho-urd confer ,ritt, it.-6iiv iilnn..to determine the specific ordinance and procedural .eqo'irl*.ntsapplicable to your application
FILING TNSTRUCTIONS:
FTLING CERTIFICATION:
The undersilned- representative of the applicant herebythat he is familiar with the procedural iequirements ifapplicable City ordinances.
Z',/,2^4,;
certifiesall
Signed By
The undersigned herebyauthorized to make thisdescribed.
DateAppiicant
certifies that the applicant has beenapplication for the property herein
Signed By DateFee O'/rne r
Date Application
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
Rec e i ved
Pai d
,}
I '-l
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l(\') ttU
This Application will be
Board of Adjustments and
meeting.
by the' Plann incons idered
Appeals at
t
their '\Commission
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News Releasr
FOR IHI'IEDIATE RELEASE
FRIDAY, JUNE 12, 1987
CONTACT: (612) 297- I548
may be the result of an
Nichol s l i sti ng purpl e
PURPLE LOOSESIRIFE
IS A IIOXIOUS }'EED
More ducks, geese and waterfowl in lilinnesota,s wetlands
order recently signed by Commissioner of Agriculture Jim
loosestrife as a noxious weed in l{Jnnesota.
August.
federal
Ju)y and
state and
There are several species of the weed; Lythrum Salicaria is the only one affected.
As an ornamental plant it grows in many gardens, Dennistoun said. Researchers are
able to distinguish between the species, but even so elimination of this species can
be quite costly in wetlands, he added.
The plant's magenta flowers are strikingly evident throughout
But this beautiful plant has the potential for doing much damage to
efforts to sustain.waterfowl production, Dennistoun said.
Under the law passed by the Minnesota Legislature, a person b,ho
transports it on public highways without proper bundling or dumps
propagatory parts on Iand or wet areas is guilty of a misdemeanor.
sel)s the p)ant,
the seed or other
30
over the past five years Purple loosestrife has increased significantly in the'state. The order adds the plant, Latln name Lythrum Salicaria, to the state,s primary
noxious weed list.
State departments have been working with a number of citizen groups the past few
years to draw up a plan for weed control and present it to the Legislature.
Purple loosestrife is designated a prirnary noxious weed. All governments and
landowners are responsible for its control
The weed is an aquatic plant found on xet soils to shallow standing water, wet
meadows, pasture wetlands, cattail marches, stream and river banks, lake shores and
drainage ditches. The plant crowds out vegetation required by wildlife, while having
no value to the wildlife itself.
"It spreads quickly, especially in dry years,,, said Deputy Conmissioner of
Agriculture Rollin Oennistoun. uIt soon takes over completely and grows so thick thatwildlife cannot use the area.,
-4.
LO / 281 87
CONTROL AND ERADICATION OF PI'RPLE LOOSESTRIFE
Prepared by the
MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOIIRCES
PI]RPLE LOOSESTRIFE PROGRAM
The 1987 designatloo of purpre loosestrlfe as a noxlous weed in Mlnnesotahaa created ouch denand for lnfornatlon about the Eost effectlve purpleloosestrlfe control methods. Thls suuoary sheet 1s lntended to piovidepllvate laad owuers, agrlcultural inspectors, and resource nanaglrs wlththe Eost current approved control techalques as well ae, guldelines forobtalnlug the neceasary perults.
rtte L'ltlatlon of coutrol lfforts lD lllnnesota ls tLocly because the purpr.loosestrtfe lavasLon of the state's wetlands 1s at a critt".l "ari".
'--'
Presently only a snall percent of the sultable habrtat for loosesitlfe 1ultl.nnesota Ls lnfested, although oace loosestrlfe has colonlzed aE arla, 1tcatr spread and become unmanageable very qulckly. LoosestrLfe 1s currentlytound 1n at least 52 of the gtate's 87 counttes and hundreds of separatepopulatlons have been reported, yet Dost loosestrlfe colonles are Ltlllsnal1 and nanageable rlth knorrn conErol Eethods.
Coacrol strategy for suall loosestrlfe populatlons should couslst ofaggresslve eradlcatlon of exlsting plants. Monlcorlng l,etlands that donrtcurrently have loosestrlfe, co ensure that auy lnvaslon ls detected early,ls also a crltlcal part of thls control strategy.-
Current Dechods for eradlcatlng large, dense populatloos of looaestrlfe arenot totally effectlve. Mechanlcal control trethods are lneffectlve, aad theherbLclde Eost effectlve for k1lllng loosestrlfe is non-select1ve.
Broadcast spraylng of non-selectlve herblcldes k1lls all of the vegecatlou
and nay result ln au lncrease ln loosestrlfe denslly because of seedgernlDatlon followlng the renoval of conpetlng perennlal vegetatlon.Rea1lstlcally, the long-tern conrrol of large populatlons may requlreblologlcal controls and/or better herblcldes, but thelr developnent 1sat least several years arJay. Therefore, contalnaent aod ulnlulzlng seedproductloa 1s the present control objectlve for large dense populatloas.
PERMIT INFORI'IATION
Aquatlc nulsance control (Au\C) perults are requlred for destructlon andcoatrol of aquatlc plants ln the protected uarers of the State (DNR
Co@Blsaloners Order No. 2210). Chenlcal concrol of purple loosestrlfeltr protected rraters requlres an ANC perElt, but as outllned by DNRComlssloners order No. 2244, thete 1s no fee for the peralt. Mechanicalcontrol of purple loosesrrlfe, such as hand pulllng or cuttlng, does notrequi.re an ANC perolt.
Appllcaclon for an aquatlc nulsance control perBlt for any body ofprotected rraters Day be nade by any rl.parlan orrner on thac body of t ater orby the repreaentatlve of any such group of rlparlan ouners. Appllcattonfor an aquaclc nulsaoce control perult oust be oade on foms provlded by
Ehe DeparcEent of Natural Resources. The perElt appllcatlon fong are -
avallable frou the nearest DNR Regional Flsherles Offtce; oa the DepartDenEof NaturaL R€aources, D1v1s1on of F16h and Wlldllfe, Ecologlcal Sct-tr1c.3
Sectlon, 500 Lafayerte Road, Box 25, SE. Paul, MN 55145. once couplered
the appllcatlons should be subeltted to thes. officee.
1
PurPle loosestrlfe concrol?1: "::""::", to protecr Hlnnesora,s narlveplants and wlldllfe. rherefore pernlts- rftf.Ul-i"",r"d r.rhlch speclfvherblclde and applliatlon cechniques "irr"t-rl]t'ite objecrlve of bestprotectlng valuable planr aod wtidltfe .;;;;;;;".
CONIROL TECHNIqUES
rmary of both successful aod unsuccessful controleen resred by resource Eanagers "a .""."r"i"iJ].
The followlng lsEethods rrhlch hav
as
eb
Pulllns
Pulllng 1s lapractlcal for older plunt" or iarge nuabers of plaats.Relatlvely youns (l-2 year old) "iJ-i".r"i"i'ii)llllg rs^eaarlsi ,i"i',"."r-i";i ;";:';rPsrants cau be pulled bv hand.aurrace. care sto.iJ-ie raken .o irJ,i,l ;;ri.li::ilr:::::,r:::"::":li,provldes a slre for seed gerolnarr"i. ii-ail^i."" rr.., rhe enrlrerootsrock should be r"rorJd, "h.;-;;g";;.;;;o;":i"T":":t.::::;. t;1t1, rt""",,,.. -i!-i;;;;iffi
ff :T. :iI. TH::::trr r""i u.-ii;;;"";"";^:""sota' ,here purple loosestrlfe 1s . ooiio"J-i".a,
nost lnstaace;-;;;; ;i:.:::f .:ll :j:::.:ft ll.H: i::: :u.:ii;"ii"..
Note: DNR aquatlc uulsapul1lng (,..i;;i;:i""::::ii #Ti:;r:.i.:::#lulred ror haad
odinq
To date, the Eo6t effectlve, s56 lcient aud leasE costly Eethod forcontrolllng loosestrlfe 1n slEua tlons L,here the plants cannot b e pulled lsrrtth spot appllcatlons of herb
aval-LabIe under the trade narne
to be very effecrlve for klllt ng purp Ie
s Roundup
1de. clyphosare herbtcldes hav
{gosestrlfe.and Rodeo rfi lyphosar
, trhlch are
e been founde1s
Eanufactured by Monsanto. Thl s herblclde ts
Cuttlns urnlns .and Fl o
Cutting does result to ,gT. shorc_teru reductlon j.o
"a., numbers, aod lacesu,ner cuttlDg ls Dore effectlve .h"";i;;;;;
;:::.:::ii.:" ff":;:::l ro' rong-i;; ;;.i;:;oTii'l:;".t1il;:::'""
areas, these pteces can
are cu! lnto pleces where chly "a" rro"c io-I"r,
spread. Glven rhe kt;.'i::;."lll;"illj.l? :::.il;:;ilrr:ii""""-.t"=-recoomended control Ee chod.
Euroing loosescrlfe starDost stands, ,na r" ro"i"dl-is dlfflcult because -flre w111 not spread ta
on esrabrlsheo r*".",-"ii;:]ff ::r:"::l'lit;,"i1".0i"; i"-;L;'i,li.il..,.
sarers.Eav have'a nesarlv-e imp-act ;;-i;;,;;.:il:'li;:.:T::In..lri]lltl"nor afford rhe opporrunt ry, to- ,.r,rpur!;;";;;;;.i"".rs and wherefr:*:*#:",1lili1,'li";.:.::.:j*:;:;.;;;i.: ne!, exposed uud r1a,s ror
Uee of Herblcldes
la taken up through Leaves or younB steEs andconEacts on chese clsaues. Th eretore lc ls 1 trportant toloosesrrlfe and avold the v aluable r.re t l;tnd lants llk ec
ffi IEr lt
D
tfeat onlv ihor?i!Ti#
Glyphosare ls blodegradeabre and very short-lrved becauselnactlvated shen i! contsetrlns asenr rhac n." .::';"::tilri3ll; ,::":::., Roundup
over oPan
1lrls qulckly
contalns a
rra cer. Only
Ihe overall objecllve wheu controlllng purple loosestrlfe lrlth glyphosate
herblclde ls to spray very carefully aod selecElvely, uslag a very snall
dosage of herblclde, so that the loosestrlfe plants are selectlvely reoovedbut the surroundlng deslrable pereDrdals are uadanaged. If thls caa be
acconpllshed oosr of the loosestrlfe w111 be reuoved aud only relatl.vely
snal1 "holes" lD the vegetatlou rr1ll be created, that 1111 be qulcklyfllled by otheE perenllals precludlng the establlshEetrt of loosealr1feseedllnBs. Follos-u treatEent for at least one Eore scason !1111 be
necessary slnce sooe plauts w1ll e Elssed, new see 1D8s Day sprout, aud a
few plants w1ll eurvlve the low-dosage treatuent. Illgher dosage aud
careless appl1catlon, however, lttevltably k11ls nore auErouodlag vegetatlon
aud leads ro establlshnenr of looaesttlfe aeedllugs.
Detalled Instructlons For Control Uslnq GlvDhosate Herbiclde:
Plao on spoc spraylag ln late sumer (August-SepteEber) because the
herblclde ls oost effectlve !hen. At thls tlDe of the seaaotr cheplants are 1n bloou and even sprayed plants v111 set sooe aeed;
however, seed v1ablllty ls probably cut lD half by spraylog. If
plants are already we ll-es tab llshed at the s1te, there 1s probably
already a high denslty of vlable seeds ln thc sol1. If feaslbJ.e, the
flower heads should be cuc off and bagged for removal. Thls ulll
ellmlnate any seed belng set that year and !,ill thereby ElnlElze lhe
seed bank.
DeternlBe vhe+,[er the slce has scandlng water. If there 1.s standl.ng
wacer, Rodeo "' should be used. Ulnnesota Statutes requlre Ehat any
appllcatlon (vhecher by coDDerclal applLcacors, prlvate lndlvtduals,
Agrlcultural lnspectors or resource managers) of herblclde to publlc
waters of MlDnesota requlres an Aquallc Nulsance Control (ANC) perElt
froE the DepartDent of Natural Resources. Contact the Departloent of
Natural Resource's Reglonal Headquarters nearest the lreatnent slte to
obtalu a perolt or to detemlne whether one 1s requlred.
2
3 Use onl
water,
sPray o
ls llke
ya
che
fs
Iy
plastlc or stalnless steel sprayer. Uslng only clean
ck your sprayer for leaks aD.d adjust the nozzle to provlde anaII droplets. Do no! adjust to a oist, slnce a flne nlsc
to drlft and k111 deslrable vegetatlon.
4 Select an approprlate day aDd tloe for spraylng. Glyphosate works
besr ln late sunmer; begln spraylng after August lst. Spray on a
sunny day shen raln 1s noC expecced for ac least 8 hours, preferably
24 hours, and spray durlng Ehe Eld-oornr.n8 to afternoon hours (uatt
t111 the der ls off and the planls are dry). Do noc spray on a wlndy
day.
5. READ THE HERBICIDE LASEL
TM
Rodeo -" rPfly be used over open rrater. It Eust be ulxed rrlth Ortho X_77Spreader ', or another approved lrettlng agent. Roundup rfl, whlch lsuseful 1n any sltuatlou nhere there 1s no staDdlng sater aE the tlDe ol.spraylng, ls readlly ava11able at Eost feed aud garden stores. Rodeo ln 1sonly sold ln large quatrtltles and by very few dealers. If you need to
coEcEol purple loosestrlfe 1n staEdlng lrater, contact lhe DepartDent ofNatural Resourcers Purple Looseslr1fe program coordlnator for asslstance lnobtalnlDg the herblclde oE for the curreat l1st of llcensed couerclal
appllcators.
I
6.M1x herb 1c1de:
a. Roundup m:
rater) . . .
b.Rodeo &
gater).
Spreader
c.Foanlng Iuater bef
resc of t
Hlx a llZ solutlon (2 oz. Roundup ft/gallon of clean
M1x a l7 solutlon (l l/3 oz. Rodeorfiiriir$.(just sllshtll ov'r ! oz-j
TU /gallon of cleanof Ortho X-77
s a1n1n1zed lf you flrst fill the sprayeE 3/4 fuLL of,ore addtlg the heEblclde and surfacianl;-d;; .o'u .f,"
7
E-iihllii,.:::.:!:il:t.!1,,1.;"hii..li"::i: ffiil"::::,:ii:.fffi :;".H#":::illT.".ner sp.c1.s.--il"I-iio""".,rre-rs talier--
r" "ri"".il-". ;;;",i::::-i{1,{ :lil ;::Tff ,.l,""ill :i ;::,iit::: ir:lri: ::::i,i:#".:"""e.. roi-il,;;; ;i;".", .keep 1o,r"i-ii"-t
IJork systeEatlcallv thrpugh the- colony by startlug aE one slde audbacklng atray fron th" "r"" you have "p.ry"i
-ao -.rold
lralklng through::'.:ii ii*l!'|."; o:o;,
t.';"' p".in"l, -1"i"'irrgnt
colored - rlags iled
areas tha. have been .r;fl"I]"4", for uarklng rhe boundarles .i_afr"__-
If the tleatEent i.s carrle_d :,ut on Mlnnesota publlc r,raters, 1t 1snecessary to post aquarlc
_
nulsauce conEro.L ar"lar"rra slgns 1E therreared area ro serve lorlce ro rhose ;;-.;;;;" Ehe area for wacerrecreaclon. There 1s a 24 hour ,"" a.r" "io.r-lrr-i.rro.ang ln rrarer near
i::::;: "*.". sistrs are provid.ed by rhe DNR ,i.n ch. A"\c perDlr 1s
Revtslt the wetland eachprevenr a relnvaslou. ^#p::r::ii :::":';r::Il;ilt.i::H"::: ::exposed oud flats nay provlde a slre f.i-"""aiirg esrabLlshnenr.
9
8.
10.
(Th 1s i'nforaarlon o,as prepared uslng..funds provlded by the Mr.nnesotaLeglslactve Co@1ss1on on Mlnnesora,s Resources)
*
--'-'.
.,-.ri,Jh,:::: -,!.
ch.404
Scc. 107. [t6.781 CONTROL OF pURpLE LOOSESTruFE.
. SuMiyision l. DEFINffiON. For the ouroosc of rhis sccriorl -ourpt-.
loostJtnfc' mcan3 lvthrum salicana
SuM. 2. ESTAaLISHMENT OF CONTROL pROcR {"1t. Thc commrs.
signcr of natural rcsourc6 shall coordinatc a contrgl ororam to curbThelq4l
of oumlc looscsrnfe. Thc commi$roncB of "rn.utturc "na rr",, niiiri -rsraid and coooc!-arc with rhc commissioner of n"tural .csourcesEistablish .i-imiii
mcnt. and cnforcc thc control orocram.
Subd- 10. Appropriarioo Adjurt-
mcot
Thc commirsioncr of inaacq upoo rcc-
ommcndation of rbe lc!i3latiyc
commilsion o! Minncsora rclourE6. sha.ll
rr.ducc t-hc appropnarioor for thc p.ojccrs
fundcd by rhir sccrroo by t 100,000 in
6scal ycar l9tt and t 100,00O in 6scal
ycar 1989. Thir rcducrion shall bG rcaP
propnarcd to tic commirsioncr of oatu-
ral rcsourcc! to csrlblish a cootrol
program for tllc wccd lylhnrn salicana
(purplc looscstnfc) in cooperarioD wtth
thc dcpanmcot of agnculturc.
S€c. tl. Minnesora Statut6 19t6, sccrioo lt.l7l, subdivirion 5, is amcodcd
to rcad:
Subd- 5. |{O!OOUS WEEDS. -Noxious wccds'mcans rhc annual. bi.nrr-
al, atrd pcrcnoral planti which arc dccmcd by thc commissloserr !I commisston-
cr's ordcr. to bc injunous to public hcalth. public roadt, crop!. llvcstoct and
othcr propcny. Thc commissioncr's ordcrs u.dcr thir subdivrsioo..c nor iuL
jsg! to chaprcr I {.
Scc. t4. Minnesota Statutcs 1986. r€ction l8.l7l. is amcnded by addiog a
suMivision to read;
Subd. 8. I-AND. -tand- includca werlands and oublic warcrs.
S€c. 85. [8.1821 PENAITY FOR SAI-E OF PURPLE LOOSESTRIFE.
A pcrson who EIE pumlc looscstrife. h1hrum salicari!. s rurltv g!g mirdc-
mcanor.
Scc. t6. Minncloia Statur6 19t6, sacrion 18,241, suMivision 2, it amcrdcd
to rcad:
Subd. 2. RIJLES REGAI-DING TRANSPORTATION. Erccp. at provid-
cd in sccnon :1.74. whco any pcrson dcsircs to trampon tlong a public hrghway
matcrialt containing rc€ds or othcr propagari[g pans of lcafv spurSe. horsc
ncltlc, Auslnln 6cld crcss. 6cld bindwccd, pcrtnnial pcpp.r 8rar5. \vrld ridish,
sow thisrlc. Crnad. thisrlc. hoary al-v.'sum. gglg loosGrnie. or any othcr nox-
ious wccd dcslSlatcd by thc commrssioncr, thc pcrson shall sccurc from a loca.l
or it2tc wccd rnspcclor. or county aBncultural inspcctor, a *nncn pcrmrt for thc
tnnsponauon of such matcnal. All duly conltltutcd wccd lnsp€ctor! may lssuc
such pcrmits lo pcrlons rc5ldinE or op.6tilt wrthi! thcir rcsprccrrvc wced;uns
dictro.rs to rctulalc thc transponatioo of such matcnal and to rcquirc progrr
trcatmcot, clcaning stcnlizauoo oa dettructlon of any such matenal whlch has
bccn or is about to bc transponcd or dcposltcd to prcvcnt rhc troprng or
scancnng of any w.cd lceds or othcr propagating pan! contatncd thcrctn.
Copr6 of all pcrmits risucd undc this sccrioo shall bc immcdiatcly scor ro thc
commllsronct.
LAWS ol MINNEsOTA tbr 1987
Scartcring arld dunping ol: lznd or it watcr cf, grain. s€cd. and screel;rts
contlinin8 scedt and orhcr propaBains parrs of oorious ,rccdt ilt crcas of lcg^al
limiB of wccd sccds pcr lDund in atnculrural sccd. and of soil. gravcl, njbbrsh.
rrash, and othcr matcriak cootaioiog sacds or othcr propagating pans of norrous
*€cds in harmful amount3 at dcrcrmincd by rulc of thc commissioner i! prohlE
itcd u[lcss:uch matcnal is proccsscd. trcatcd. or buncd sufficicntly deep ro
dcsrroy viablc saeds and othcr propagatrng pans whrch rhcy contatn down to thc
limiB providcd by rhir scction.
Scc. 87. Minnc$a Starurcs 1986. scction tE.:91, is amcndcd ro rcad:
lE.tgt coNfiuIssIoNER M.{y QUAXT.\TINE .{.\D DESTROY WEEDS.
Whcn from irv6rigatioo or othcrwrsc. it appcars lo thc commlssioncr thal
upon any tntct of r6lcr+irnEl land thc.c is ao tlltsratroo of noxious wccds
bcyood the abilily of thc land occupant o! owncr !o cradlcatc, upon rcqucst of
lhc ow[cr. or upon thc commissioncr's own motron. rhc commrssloncr shall takc
ruch stcps as arc ncccssary to prcvcnt funhcr rprcad of,uch wced growrhs. TO
this cnd. rhe commlssioncr shall quarantinc such ponton of each tracl of land as
may bc so lnfdtcd and pur iolo immcdiatc op.rauon thc ncc6sary mcans for
the cradicatlon of such wccd growths.
Scc. 88. Minncsora Sriturcs I9t6, rcrioo 16.3ll, is amcnded to rcad:
r8.3t I E\PENSES.
Thc crpcnsc! of 6cld opcralioor, ilcluding cosr of chcmicalr and orhcr
matcnals cmploycd in wccd cradicrtio!. cxccpt machincry and ot-trcr cqurg>
mcnt. shall bc paid from rhc fuDd provrdcd for this purposc. This fund shall bc
rcrmburscd not latcr than January 6rsq of cach year. 20 pcrcenr rhcrcof by rhc
coumy or!d, rcn pcrccnt thcEof by thc towlr in which thc land so quarantincd
aDd improvcd is siruarcdr ind tcn Dcrccnt rhcreof bv rhc landowncr itrvolvcd.
wlcD thc infcsrahont of noxious wecds. rgainsr \rhich thc acxviri6 ot thc
commlssloncr arc dircctcd. arc found locarcd on rhc ,idcs of public hithweyi,
lhc cxpcnig of cradicarion shall bc paid, 50 pcrcctlr by thc sraic from rhc fundprondcd for thit purposc, 50 pcrccnt from rhc funds providcd for thc mainrc.
oancc of thc statc htthway dcpanmcnl if lhc tnf6Etion it on a iutc highwav,
50 pcrcent by thc cou[ry. rf thc infesration is on a couoly or statc aid .oad, and
50 pcrc€nr by the rowl. rf thc rofcsutron li on a rown road or canw.y.
Wh.n inf6htion! of oorious wccdf t8ainsr which rhc adiviri6 of rhc
corhmi3sioncr arr dircclc4 rrc found locatcd wrthin rhc corporarc limit, of amunicipaliry or on p.opcny us€d ,y r munrcrpality, lhc .rpcnsc of th€ c.adiq-tiorr-ofsuch wceds sha.ll bc paid as tblloss: 50 pcrccnr rhcrrof by thc srarc fromthc funds provldcd tbr Ois purposc rod jO p.rccnt by thc munrcipality from rtsgaocral rcvcnuc fund.
Ctin86 o. iddidoat rr. indlcra.d b, und.rtinc, d.l.aioat b, ...lal
L -..-,. -. _ _'l-
-
._
Erccpt as providcd in lccrlon 21.?4, no train sd, scrcenings, hay foragc,
rtfirw. soil. gravcl, sard, or rcfusa atrd othct matcnal3 containing reds and othcr
propatadnS pans of lcafy lpur8c, horsc rrctrlc, Ausrrian 6cld crcas, 6cld biod-wced, pctcnnid pcppcr grass, wild radish, sow rhistlc, Casada rhirrlc, ho{yalFlumr pgqlg looscsrnta. or any orhcr noxioss *esds dBtgnarcd by thc com.
misironcr shall bc rransponed upon aoy public highway uoicss rt bc in 5ackrbelcq boxct or o:h!r cc:raitcn suficiclly tigtrt iad closcd or covcrcd wrth
canvas or olhcrwisc to prcyclt s€cds and othcr propagatrng pans of such wcrds
from blowing or scaltcring aloot thc highrray oi onothcr l"nds o, **cr.
ii.<-r---.-,--
CITY OF
EIIANHASSEI[
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: Jan. G, lgg8
C.C. DATE: Jan. 25, 1988
CASE NO: 87-32 SUB87-17 cuP, 87-16 WAPPrepared by: Olsen,/v
Fz
C)JLL
ko
lrJF
@
Subdivision of 9 Acres into 15 Single FamilyLots
Conditional Use permit for a Recr_-ationalBeachlot
Wetland Alteration permit for Developmentwithin 200 fE. of a Class e wetland.'
6830 Minnewashla parkway, on the west siCe ofMinnewashta parkway appioximately l miie soutnHighway 7.
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
of
APPLICANT:Pierce Construction
3 915 Farmhill CircLeMound, MN 55364
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SE$IBR:
PHYSICAL CEARAC. :
1990 LAND USE PLAN:
RSF,
9.04
5.9
Residential Single Fami Iy
acres
acres (net acres ) 2.54 rt/a (net densi!
single familysingle f ami.ly
Minnelvashtasingle family
N-
S-
E-
w-
RSF;
RSF ;
Lake
RSE;
Available to Ehe sile.
The site has a grove of Lrees on t.hewestern side of Lake Minneeashta. Theremainder of the sit.e is open f ield.---Outlot A has a steep slope'towara-tneIake and heavily vegetaEed.
Resident.ial Low Density
1.
2.
3.
(
R,i
:illt
a
LAKE
HtililEVASHrA
RD
PUD-R
IAPLE tllOal t
9RIVE
7 62 r{O
\
A (
rF E
,E I ILLd d
-*-'lu"
l(! r|GS ROAO
*l m
o
-z
-
STJOE
L AKT
Eo
F
I
---.-I
\l
F
e ),tfr
l,
I
D
Stratford
January 6,
Page 2
Ridge
1988
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 5-5-5 requires a lot area of 15,O0O square feet, 90 feetof street frontage and I50 feet of lot depth iattachmeni *I).
secLion 5-9-1 (11) Recreationar Beachrot conditions requires atleast 200 feet of lake frontage for a recreat.ional beadhlot andrequires at. least 30,000 squaie feet and i00 feet ot aepiirfor any recreational beachlot to have a dock tattachmenl *2).
Section 6.5 (7 ) of the Subdivision Ordinance does not permitdoubre frontage lots except where the lots back on an irteriar orcorrector srreet. and then such rots sha1l have an aaaii:.oniidepth of r0 feet to accommodate vegetative screening aronj-lrreback lot line (Attachment *3).
REFERRAL AGENCIES
DNR
City Engineer
U. S. Fish & wildlife
U. S. Corps of Engineers
Park and Recreation t4i nutes
Fire Inspector
Watershed District
SoiI ConservaLion Service
BACKGROUND
fhe applicant must receive apermit from t.he DNR forinstallation of the sandblaakets on the beachlot andfor directing stormwaterrunoff into Lake Minnewashta.
Attachment #4
AtLachrnent #5
Attachment #6
Attachment #7
Attachment #8
Attachment #9
Attachment #I0
On October 29. L987, the planning Commission reviewed the sub_division proposal of 15 single iimily 1ots and the conditionaluse permit request for a recreational beachlot (Attachment #Il).At the time of E.he October 28, 1997, planning Commission *".ting,there were many outstanding issues concerni.ng the subdivision andthe recreational beachlot that needed to be iesorved prior io adecision being made on the proposal . As far as the sirbdivi"ion,staff rdanted to review street. Lonnections to Minnewashta parkwayand future sEreet extensions to surround.ing properties in moredetail prior to making a recomrnendation on-tire proposed streetIayout. Staff also visited the site prior to t-he ilanning
Commission meetinq with Dr. Rockwell and determined that a ClassB wetland existed on the eresterly edge of the site and thereforea reetland alteration permit had to be obtained which reguired apublic hear ing.
Strat.f ord Ridge
January 6, 1988
Page 3
The applicant.family lots.I5,000 square
The Commission tabled action on the subdivision until staff couldreview the street alignment and eretland alteration permit in moredetail. The Planning Commission also moved to table the con-ditional use permit for the recrear.ional beachlot until theycould receive further information from the City Attorney on thesubject of the variance to the lot depth requirement for thebeachlot to have a dock.
The City relained BRvl, Inc. to complete a preliminary overview ofthe properties surrounding Ehe proposed Stratford Ridge develop-ment along l.4inneirashta Parkway (Attachment #12). The purpose ofthe BRW report is to provide the city a comprehensive approach tostreet patterns, utility connect.ions and stormwater management.
The City Engineer reviews the BRW report in further depth.
The BRW report provided two options for the subject property andthe surrounding area. Option A provided for future roadway con-nection from Lhe subject property to the north and did notutilize the existing roadway easement along the south. Option Bproposed using the existing driveway easement to the south forfuture roadway access Eo the property to the west. and south.Staff reviewed both opt.icns and preferred Option B. Staff pre-ferred Ehis option because it provided the property to the .rest
of the subject parcel 'vrith more direce access from Minnewashta
Parkway .
AI{ALYS I S
Prel imi nall _P1et
The subject property is .l-ocated on the western side of
Minnewashta Parkway, approximat.ely l mite south of Highway 7.The property is approximat.ely 360 feet wide with a depth ofapproximately 1200 feet. The site contains some heavily vege-tated areas and open field. The site slopes from the centertowards the south and east and currently contains a single familyresidence which is serviced by a driveway t.urnaround fromMinnewashta Parkway. The existing single family home is indisrepair and will be removed from the site by the applicant.There is also an existing shed on the site and several junkvehicles and other ilebris. The site is bordered on the south bya drivenay easemenL for access to the property located to thewest and to the rear of Ehis site.
i.s proposing to subdivide 9.04 acres into 15 singleThe Zoning Ordinance requires a minimum tot area offeet, 90 feet of street frontage and 150 feet of
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 1988
Page 4
1ot depth for lots rvithin the RSE district. The net densitvof the proposal is 2.54 units per acre which is within theResidential Low Density designltion of the comprehensir. pr"n.
ANALYS I S
Preliminary Plat
The subject property is located on the h,estern side of[linnewashta parkway, approximately ] mile south of Highway 7.The property is approximately 350 feet wide with a aefitn ofapproximately 1200 feet. The site contains some heavil,t ;;g._tated_areas and open field. The site slopes from the ci,iceito$,ards the south and east-and currentry iontains a ii"gre-iamirvresidence which is serviced by a drivewiy Lr.naround fr6ml{inner.rashta parkway. the exilting single family home is indisrepair and wilr be removed. frofr the-sit. uy-it . -"ppi i""it.There is also an existing shed on the siE.e ana severii iunfvehicles and other debrii. The site is bordered "" it,.-"ootn uya drive.*ay easement for access to the property located to thewest and to the rear of this sit.e.
The applicant is proposing to subdivide 9.04 acres into 15tamrly lots. The Zoning Ordinance reguires a minimum Iot a15,000 sguare feet, 90 ieet of street frontage and 150 feetlot depth for lots within the RSF district. The net densit
9f !!" proposal is 2.54 units per acre which l.= ,iinin-tr,"-Residentiat Lor,, Density designition of the Comprehensive p1
Streets
The applicant is proposing to service the site by upgrading theexisting driveway easemeni to a public street ana tfren conitructan internal cul-de-sac from the proposed street to access the rotsinternally. The existing single famity home on the site whicnnow has t.,/ro- access points onto Minnewa3hta parkway wi lI bergmgyed: The City requires an urban street to privide a i0 rootright-of-way and to be constructed with curb ani gutter. it"groposed internal street has a 50 foot right-of-wiy and therequired radius for the cul-de-sac. the lroposed improvement tothe driveway easement to the south also contiins ttre-ieq"ii;a sofoot r ight-of-way.
11 " :a:ggt _
configuration resul_ts in several double frontage lots.The Subdivision Ordinance only permits double frontage fois ifthey back ont,o a collector or arterial street. Lots 2 through 5,Block 2 will meet this requirement since the lots back ontoMinnewashta parkway, but ioEs 7-10, Block I and Lot 1, B1o;k 2r^,ill not since they back onto a local street.
single
rea of
of
v
an.
The Subdivision Orclinance also requires that
f eet. of depth be provided on double frontage
an addi tional
lots to allow
IO
for
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 1988
Page 5
landscaping to screen the lots from the road. Only Lot 7, Block
l and Lot 5, Block 2 have enough depth to allot the addit.ional 10
feet of lot depth for landscaping. The remaining lots must
receive a variance to the requirement of the additional 10 feet
or the 1oE layout will have to be rearranged. totss 2-5, Block 2
can receive an additional I0 feet by shifting the internal streeE
to the west into Lol 1, Block 1. The shifting of the internal
street will provide Lots 2-5 with additional loL depth but may
also result in the loss of Lot l, Block 1. It is not possible to
provide Lots 8-10, Block I and Lot 1, Block 2 with an additional
10 feet of lot depth without removing several lots. Therefore,
the only option for these lots to remain are for them to receive
Iot depth variances.
Staff prefers the location of the street which creates the double
frontage lots, because it provides better site distance on
Minnewashta Parksay than if the street went through the center of
the property. The purpose of the additional 10 feet is to pro-
vide area for landscaping. Staff can support the lot depth
variances if the applicant witl provide a Iandscaping screen
between the house pad the street. LoE 1, Block 2 also does not
meet the minimum lot depth requirernent of I50 feet and wiII need
a variance in addition Eo the lot depth requirement for double
frontage lots.
On January 11, 1988, Ehe City Council will be acting on an amend-
ment to the lot depth requirement of 150 feet to reduce it to I25
feel. when the Ior depth requirement was reviewed by the
Planning Commission it was felt that 125 feet of lot depth j.s
adequate for a single family 1ot. If the City Council approves
the ordinance amendment to reduce the lot alepth requirement Eo
125 feet, the 1ot depth variances required for the above men-
tioned lots will not be necessary.
Staff recommends that the Planning Commission decide whether or
not lot depth variances are justified for Lots 8-.10, Block I and
I-,ots 1-5, Block 2 at this time. The Commission can eibher deny
the lot depth variances and. reguire a new Iot confirguration or
they can require the internal street be shifted so uhat certain
lots (Lots 2-5, Block 2) can meet the 150 foot lot depth require-
ment and the addiEional t0 ioot requirernenE. Another option is
to grant lot depth variances fcr Lols 8-10, Block and Lols 1-5,
Block 2.
staff also recommends that all 15 lots must be serviced internally
from StraEford Ridge Drive and no lots be allowed a separaEe
drive tso Minnewashta Parkway. The Subdivision Ordinance recom-
mends Ehat all of the homes face t.he internal street and not the
collector or arterial street.
Strat.ford Ridge
January 6, I988
Page 6
Future Street Connection
The applicant is providing right-of-way up E.o the northern por-tion of the site for a road extension should subdivision of Ehenortherly property take place. The applicant is also providing30 feet to the west.erly boundary along the existing drivewayeasement. These future road. extensions are consistent withOption B of Ehe BRt{ reDort.
Landscap i ng
Staff visited the site with Che DNR Forester, Alan Olson. Thepurpose of the site inspection was to determine the guality ofthe existing vegetat.ion on the site and to determine which treesshould be preserved anil if a tree removal plan would benecessary. Upon visiting t.he site Mr. Olson determined that mostof the existing trees were box el-der and not of high qual_ity andthat. a tree removal plan was noE necessary.
Park and Recreation Commission
The Park and Recreation Commission reviewed the subdivisionOctober 27, L987 (Att.achment #7). The park and RecreationCoinmission recomrnended to accept park dedication fees in lieu ofparkland and to receive a 20 fooL trail easement along the westside of Minneurasht.a Parkway. The trail vrill be 8 ieef wide bit.u-minous. It may be possible to locate the trail within theexisting RCW of Minnevrashta parkway 'rhich would permit the appli-cant to have more area for the proposed sedimentation basin indlandscaping sLrip. In either case, the 20 foot trail easement.sl'a1l be provided to ensure a Erail can be located alongMinnewashta Parkway.
Mi sce Ilaneous
RECO!{MENDATION --_Pre1 imlnall pla!
Planning staff recoomends thefollowing motion:
Planning Commission adopt the
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Subdivision*57-32 as shown on the plat stamped "Received October 23, LgB7"and subject to the following conditions:
Staff recommends that approval of the subdivision be conditionedupon removal of the existing single family structure and the shedand debris on the site. A demolition permit must be obtainedbefore destructsion of these buildings. A moving permit will berquired if the home is to be moved to another site in Chanhassen.Existing debris and any oLher debris generated from demolitionshaIl not be buried on site and shall be transported to a properIandfilL site.
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 198I
Page 7
1. The right-of-way south of Loes 7 through 10 shal1 be
designated as an outlot.
2. Lots 1-5 shaLl provide an additional 10 feet of dept,h or an
approved detailed landscaping plan providing screening from
t{innesashta Parkrday.
3. The existing building and debris shall be removed from the
site upon approval of the appropriate permits.
4. Provision of a 20 foot trail easement on the west, side of
I.tinnerashta Parkway.
5. Type II erosion control, staked hay bales and snow fence,
shlff Ue placed along the south side of Lots l, 9 and 10.
6. A typical iletail for type II erosion control , staked hay
balei antl snow fence, shall be placed on the grading plan.
7. Wood fiber blankets or equivalent shall be used to stabilize
all disturbed slopes greater than 3:1.
8. All streets and utilities sha11 be constructed in accor<iance
to the City's standarcls for urban construction-
9. The watermain shall either be looped or increased Eo an
eight-inch diameE.er. No dead-end stubs shall be allowed.
10. All erosion control measures shall be in place prior to the
commencement of anY grading.
II. The applicant shall enter into a development agreement ',viththe City and provide the necessary financial surities as a
part of this agreement for completion of the improvements-
12. The applicant shall obtain aod comply wiEh all conditions of
the Watershed District anal DNR permit.
13. The proposed manhole 2 shall be lowered Eo its minimum
possibte elevatsion such that service from the north of the
easterly proposed cul-de-sac may be facilitateil.
14. Drainage easements shall be ail just.ed to cover the entire
ponding site should shifting of the pond be necessary.
15. The curb radios as shown in Attachment *3 shall be replaced
by a curb transition section as shohrn in Attachmene *4.
CONDITIONAL USE P8R!iIT
permit for a
A as shordn on theThe applicant is requestsing
recreational beachlot to be
a conditional use
Iocated on Outlot
preliminary plat. The applicant is proposing4 slips and also proposing boat racks and twobeaches. The remainder of the site woulil bestate.
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 19 88
Page I
At the October 28, 1987, meeting Lhe planning
requested the City Attorney to review severalcerning the variance request. Attachment #12Roger Knutson addressing those quest.ions.
The Zoning Ordinance requires the BoarCl of Acljustments andAppeals to review vari,ances t.o the Zoning Ordinance. Thereforethe Board of Adjustments will decide on the lot depth requirementirhich determines whether a dock rsiII be permitted. The p-roposalmust receive a 1ot. depth variance from the Board of Adju;t.mentsto be permitted a dock. A dock with four slips for overnightstorage wiII also require a variance since the ordinance Iimitsoverni,3th storage to three slips per dock. The Board ofAdjustments will review the variance on January 25, 1988, priorto Ehe City Council reviewing the whole Stratford Ridge appJ-ica-tion. The Planning Commission shal1 act only on E.he conditionaluse permit for a recreational beachlot and should conditionapproval of the recreational beachlot with a dock upon t.he appli-cant receiving a variance for the 1ot depth from the Board of
Ad j ustment.s and City Council.
a dock
s andleft in
with
its natural
The Zoning Ordinance requires a minimum of 30,000 square feet,200 feet of lake frontage and 100 t-oot depth for a recreationalbeachlot Eo contain one dock. Outlot A contains 3I,400 sguarefeet and approximately 550 feet of lake frontage, but cloes notcontain 100 feet of depth. The northerly portion contains 110feet and the southerly portion contains 84 feet and, but Lhecentral area of Outlot A only contains 40 feet of depth. Thenarroe, part of Outlot A is the approximate area where the dockand sand beach is proposed. Therefore, a variance would berequired to the recreational beachlot ordinance to permit a dockto be installed.
Commi s s ionquestions con-is a letter from
Outlot A is extremely steep from Minnewashta parkway to LakeMinnewashta and the applicant is proposing a timber walI to buildstegs to Ehe beach. The Fire Marshal has recommended thaE a rampbe installed instead of steps to grovide access in case of anemergency and to also provide access for handicapped persons.Therefore, staff is recorunending that instead of st.eps, a ramp beinstalled. The ramp wiII not accommodate motorized vehicles iorparking. A1so, Outlot A is heavily vegetated with a higherquality of trees than what were found on the site where the lotsare proposed ( Sugar I'laples and Red Oaks). Since these trees areof higher quality, staff is recornmending that a tree rernoval planbe provided for approval by the city and DNR Forester prior toany alteraEion to the outlots. Staff is also recommending thatthe applicant provide more detailed plans for the recreational
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 1988
Page 9
RECOMMENDATION - Conditional Use Permit
The proposed condilional use permit for
meets the Zoning Ordinance requirements
1ot without a dock.
a recreational beachlotfor a recreaEional beach-
"Ihe Planning Commission recommends approval of Conditional Use
Permit *87-L7 for a recreational beachlot subject to the
following conditions 3
I. The recreational beachlot shall not have a dock unless a
variance to the lot depth requirement is granted by the Board
of Adjustments and City Council.
2 The proposeil dock shal1 not have 4 overnight slips
variance Eo the limitation of overnight storage is
the Board of Adjustments and City Council.
unless a
granted by
3
4
AII additional standards established for
beachlot in the Zoning Ordinance roust be
A tree rernoval
approval prior
a recreational
met .
plan musL be submitted t.o the City and DNR for
Eo any aLEeraLion lo Outlot A.
WETI,AND ALTERATION PERMIT
Upon visiting the site staff noEiced an area t.ot"rards the north-
west portion of the site Ehat mights be considered a vretland.
Staff then visited tshe site with Dr. Rockwell who confirmed thaE
the vegetation in that location was in fact a wetland. The area
of Ehe wetland is located on a hillside which drains tohrards the
northlrest. It acts primarily as a drainage area which resulted
in the sparse wetland vegetation. Dr. Rockwell stated that. it
was a marginal class B wetland serving as a drainageway but that
it did not have any benefit to wildlife habiEat. She stated in
her memo that she felt it could be altereC if the wetland r'/as
mitigated with a ponding area. Dr. Rockwell stated that if
filling is going to occur wiEhin the wetland area, the applicantwill have to receive a permit from the Corps of Engineers.
The applicant is, as shcwn on the drainage plan, proposing to
directs all the drainage from the site to the east where it will
be collected in a sedimenLatsion basin along Minne$rashta Parkway
where it, will t.hen be directsed to Lake Minner,rashta. The grading
of the site will provide for the drainage to be redirecEed Eo Ehe
street. where the stormser.rer will direct. it to the sedi.mentation
beachlot to the city and DNR to determine if a DNR permit isrequired.
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
Stratford Ridge
January 6, 1988
Page I0
Planning staff recommends thefollowing motion:
Planning Commission adopt the
basin. Typically, where the wetland area is located is alsowhere the wetland is mitigaced by providing a ponding area inthat location. The applicant is redirecting aII of the drainagetoward a new sedimentation basin, and the Engineering Office hisconfirmed that this is the preferred direction for diainageraLher than maintaining a seoimentation basin in the northeastcorner. Staff is recommending that the proposed sedimentationbasin be accepted as the mitigation to the wetland and al1owgradj.ng and development to occur -veithin the existing wetlandarea. For the new seCimentation basin to be accepted as a miti-gation to the development of the existing wetland; staff isrecommending that it be developed to the six requirements pro-vided by the Fish and Wildlife Service. this option was riviewedwith Dr. Rockwell and she was satisfied with t.hi.s proposal.
RECO}IIT{ENDATION
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of WetlandAlteration Permit #87-15 to permit the alteration of a Classwetland with the following conditions:B
I The proposed sedimentation basin shallfollowing six crileria so E.hat iL willarea:
be designed to thealso as a .rretland
a
b
d
e
The basin will have freeincrease shoreline lengthfeeding and resting birds
The basin will haveI0:1 - 2C:I for at
encourage gro$/th offood for wi ldI i fe.
(no even-sided) shape toprovide isolated areas for
form
and
shallow embankments with slopes ofleast 30t of the shoreline to
emergent vegetation as refuge and
The basin will have uneven, rolling bottom contsour forvariable water depEh to (a) provide foraging areas forspecies of wildlife feeding in shallow witei t0.5 - 3.0feet) and (b) encourage growth of emergent vegetation inareas of shallow water and thereby increase interspersionof open water irith emergent vegetition.
The basin wil-I have a layer of topsoil (muck from anexisting rrreLland being filled) on bottom of basin to pro-vide a suitable subslrate for aquatic vegetation.
The basin will haqe hrater level control (culverts, riserpipe, etc.) to minimize disturbances of wildlife usingthe wetsland.
Stratforcl Ridge
January 5, 1988
Page 1l
t The basin will have fringe of shrub
surrounding the basin to minimize dwildlife using the wetland.
soist n upland
urbances of
The applicant must receive a permit from the Corps of
Engineers.
ATTACHMENTS
Section 5-5-5 of the zoning Ordinance.Section 5-9-1 (II) of the Zoning Ordinance.
Section 6.5 (7) of the Subdivision Ordinance.
[lemorandum from Asst. City Engineer dated December 31, 1987.
Letter from U.S. Fish and wildlife dated October 27, 1987.
Letter from U.S. Corps of Engineers dated November 5, 1987.
Park and Recreation report dated october 27, L987.
Memo from Fire Inspector dated September 25, 7987.
Minnehaha Creek watershed District dated Sept,ember 28, L987 .
Letter from SoiI Conservation Service dated October 23, L987.
Planning Commission ininutes daEed October 28, 1987.
BRw report daEed December 2, 1987.
Letler from Roger Knutson dated November 12, I987.
Letter from Craig Freeman alated october 13, 1987.
Appl ication.
Plans from BRW report.
Preliminary plat daEed December L4, I987.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
L2.r3.
14.
15.
16.
L7.
2.
5-5-4 The foLlowing are conditional uses in an ,rRSF, district:
churches
Private stabLes, subject to provisions of the horseordinance
Recreational beach lotsComnercial stable $rith a rnininuo lot size of fiveacres.
Lot Requirements and Setbacks. The fo1Ior^ring rninirnumrequi-rernents shar-I be observed i"--""-riir- District subjectto. additional requirernents, exceptions-'Ino modificati-onsset forth in this Ordinance-
1. Lot Area: 15,OOO square feet.
2. Lot Frontage: 90. feet (except that lots fronting on acul-de-sac sha1l be 9o ieet i" ,iJi, at the buj-ldingsetback line).
3. Lot Depth: l-50 feet.
4. Maxinun lot coverage for all structures and pavedsurfaces:252.
5. Setbacks:
A. Front yard: 30 feet.
B. Rear yard: 30 feet.
C. Side yard: l-O feet.
Maximun Height:
A. Principal Structure: three stories/4o feet.
9: lccgssory Structure: three stories/4o feet."R-4, MIXED Iow DENSITY RESIDENiiAi-oiSinrct
1
2
3
4
5-5-5
\
I
I
i
I
i
6
SECTION 6.
5-6-1 Iltent. .Single-fanily and attached residentialat a maxirnun net density of four Jr"iiiig "r,it.
devel-opnentper acre.
b1
5-6-2 The
Single-family dwellingsTwo-family d!,rel l inqsPub1ic. and private parks and open space
:G:oup home serving six or fewei personsState Iicensed dav care center f6r twelve or fewerch i Ld renUtility servicesTenporary reaL estate office and model home
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
-40-
B Emergency vehicle
or located across
use .
access sha1l not be.adjacent toa street from any residential
)11. Recreational beach lots provided the
standards are met in addition to suchas nay be prescribed in the permit:
following minimumother conditions
B
c
A. Recreational beach Lots shall have at least 2OOfeet of lake frontage.
No recreationaL beach lot shall be used forovernight carnping.
Boat launches are prohibited.
No recreational beach lot shal1 be used forpurposes of overnight storage or overnight mooringof nore than three (3) notorized or non-motorizedrrratercraft per dock. If a recreational beach Lot is
No structure, portabl-e chemical toilet, ice fishinghouse, camper, trailer, tent, recreational vehj_cl-eor shelter shall be erected, naintained or storedupon any recreational beach l-ot.
No boat, trailer, motor vehicle, including but notIimited to cars, trucks, notorcycles, motorizednini-bike, alI-terrain vehicle or snowmobite shal-Ibe driven upon or parked upon any recreationalbeach l-ot.
D
E
F
a1l, owed
number osail boa
windsur f
be store
if theyfor that
be al1ow
watercraother hratine oth
norfbtm
ersdo
are
e than one dock, however, the allowedoats nay be clustered. Up to three (3)oorings sha11 also be atlowed. Canoes,
, sail boards, and sma1l, sail boats nayvernight on any recreational beach lotstored on racks specifically designedpurpose. No more than one (L) rack sha11ed per dock. No more than six (6)ft may be stored on a rack. Docking oftercraft or seaplanes is pennissible at anyer than overnight.
No dock shal1 be permitted on any recreationalbeach Iot un]-ess it has at l-east 2Oo feet of lakefrontage and the lot has at least a 1OO foot depth.No nore than one dock may be erected on arecreational- beach 1ot for every 2Oo feet of lakefrontage. In addition, 30,OOO square feet of landis required for the first dock and an additional20,00O sqnrare feet is required for each additional.dock. No more than three (3) docks, however, shallbe erected on a recreational beach 1ot.)d,ne^Lt tt-+
-48-
t:
A'al-
H. No recreational beach lot dock shall exceed six (61feet. in width, and no =""r, a""x-.tiir-"""Jla-tf,",",greater of the.following lengtt=r-'1.1 fifty-fiOifeet or, (b) the minimum striiqht_tine distancenecessary a" ..::l a. hrater depin ot t""i-fsi--iJ.t.The width (but not the renglhi-or-tn" cross-bar ofany ,,I,, or ,,Lo shaped aocX-strafi-fe inciuaea_;; #"cornputation of lengtfr aescrilea-i.i the precedinosentence. The crosi_bar ot iny =""t a""i-=iIii..I".measure in excess of twenty_iir"-12s1 feet inlength.
I. No dock shaI1 encroS:h_ upgn any dock set_back zone,provided, Iowever, that the ;;";; or any twoabuttinq lakeshori. s:-tes -niy-e;;;;
""" common dockr,rithin the dock set_racx ,"i"-iii".tenanr to theabutting 1akeshore sites, if tfr!-Jonuoon alock is theonly dock on the two 1akesho..--.i.f.= and if thedock otherwise conform= ,iirrr-tnl-irovisions of thisOrdinance.
J. No sail boat mooring shal1 be perrnitted on anyrecreational beach fot unie=s Ia-;;. ar Least 2oofeet of lake frontaqe. No-moie-iiru., o.," sail boatnooring shall be aliowed f;;-;";;'2oo feer of lakefrontage .
K. 1!.1:"=.. gigrrlv percenr (8oz) of the dwelrinsun].ts, which have appurtenant rights of access toany recreationat bealh tot, straii--be located withi.nat least one thousana lf,OoOl i""t-of tn"recreational beach Lot.'
L. A11 recreational- beach 1ots, including anyrecreational beach_ lots estiuii=f,"J p.io. to theeffective date of this ordina;;;;;y be used foriyi*i"s !"":n !:Ip:="=;-;;I-;;iy"'ir =,:.*,nins areasare-clear1y delineited #itfr rnarxlr buoys whichconfom to United States c"u.t-c"".O standards.
M. Each recreational. beach lot shalL have a width,neasured both at tfe grfinary nitn--water nark andat a point one hundred -(1Oo) f""i--fa.,Ar.rd frorn theordinary hiqh water .u.i, oi ""i-f.==. than four (4)lineaI feet for each dweili"g ""ii-""rch hasappurtenant riqhts of access t" tt a' recreatlonalbeach lot accr,li.,g to the or.,"i= -oi occupants ofthat dwellj-ng unii.und"r appriciui! rur"= of thehorneowner association ". .;;i;;;tii-r nor=ingdevelopers.
N. Overnight docking, moorj.ng, and storage ofsratercraft, $rhere. alLoweai' is resiiictea tor^ratercra f t or,/ned by the o$rner/oa""pl"t o.
-49 -
L1. Pri vate
drives which
be allowed.
Streets. Private
provide access to
are prohibi.ted. Prlvate
than three lots may
streetsnot more
15. Reserve Strip. Private reserve stri-ps control-Iing public
access to streets shall be prohibi-ted.
6 3
6.4
6.5 Lots.
AlLeys.cial and
A11e1,5 31-6industrial
prohibited except for fire lanes in commer-
deveJ. opments .
Iots shail be substant i-aI Iy
Ilnes or substanti aI ly
Blocks. The length and width of blocks shall be sufficient
to provide convenient and safe access, circulation, control
and street desi.gn. Blocks may not be longer than one thousand
eight hundred (1,8OO) feet, or shorter than three hundred
(3Oo) feet except where topography of surrounding development
limits ability to strictly comply or as speci.fically approved
by the City Counci.l to foster innovative design consiscent
with sound planning principles. Pedestrian ways may be required
on blocks ionger than nine hundred (9oo) feet or in other
areas to proviCe access to schools, parks and other destination
points. Easements for pedestrj.an ways shaLL be at least twenty
(2O) feet wj.de anci shall be located to minimize intersections
with streets.
1. Location. Al1 lots shal1 abut for their fuII requj.red
minimum frontage on a publicly dedicated street as required
by the zoninq ordinance or on a private drive pursuant to
$'6.2 suoa. it.
2. Side Lot Lines. Slcie lines ofat right ang).es to straight stneetradiaL to curved street Iines.
3. Drainage.
locations.
1. Natu! a1 Amenlties. Lots shallprotect naturai amenities, such as
slopes, waEer courses and historic
Lots shall be graded to drain away from buj-lding
be placed to Preservevegetation, wetlands,
areas.
and
s teep
5. Lot Remnants. Lot remnants are prohibiteci.
6. Hardship to Owners of Adjoining Property. SEreet arrange-
ments for the proposed subdivision shalI not cause undue hard-
shi.p to owners of ad j oining 'property in subdividing thei.r
own land.
7. Double Frontage Lots. Double frontage lots with frontage
on two (2) parallel streets or reverse frontage shall not
be permitted except where Iots back on an arterlal or coLlector
street. such l-ots shall have an additj.onal depth of at Ieast
ten (1O) feeE to accommociate vegetative screening along the
back Iot line. Wherever possible, structures on doubl'e frontage
-LZ-
I
-t
-l
I
I
i
fr3
t-
:r
i-
Ir
Ir
I
t-
Ir
:r
I
T
r
Ir
IL-i
Ir
i-
!r
i-
'Ir
!r
be
or
Iots should face the front of existing structures across thestreet. If this cannot be achieved, then such lots shall have
an additional depth of ten (10) feet to accommodate vegetation
screening aLonq the back lot Iine.
8. Solar Orientation.
tion the potential use
Lot layouts should take into considera-of solar ene:'gy design features.
already on sj-te, at least one suitable tree shalL
in the front yard setback on every lot. The typeof trees planted shalL be approved by the clty.
6.6 Tree Removal and Conservation of Vegetation.
1. Existing healthy t!'ees and native vegetation shaLl bepreserved to the maximum extent feasibLe and shall be protected
by adequate means duri.ng constructj.on.
UnIess
planted
spec i es
3. consistent with approved grading pIans, existing
shall be preserved withi.n any !"i.ght-of -way when they
suitably Iocated and in good health.
trees
are
/.. No dead trees
developroent.
or uprooted stumps shaLl remain after
5. AII distu!"bed areas shall be seeded or sodded to prevent
erosion.
6. Detaj.led landscaping requirements sha'I I be set forth i.n
a cievelopment contrac+-.
Erosion and Sedi.ment Cont!'oI.6.7
6.8
,
at
1. The de',/elopmenlr
to creale the Ieast
The smallest p:'actical increment
any one time durj.ng development;
of land shaLl be exposed
3.
in
Detai.Ied requirements for each plat shall be set forth
the development agreement.
Drainage. The natural drainage s),stem shall
maximurn extent feasible for the storage and
The following requirements shalI also apply:
be used to the
flow of runoff.
sha11 conform
potential for
to the topography and solls
soil erosion;
1. Proposed drainage facilities shall have adequate capacity
to accommodate potential runoff fron their entire upstream
drainage anea, whether within or without the subdivision.
The effect of the subdivision on existing Cownstream drainage
areas outsi.de the subdivision shall be considered ln evaluatlng
the adequacy of the sto:-m water management pLan;
2. The drainage system shall be constructed and operational
as part of the first stage of deveJ-opment and construction.
-13-
CITY OF
EHINHISSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
ME}4ORANDU!I
TO: Planning Commi s s ion
FROM: Larry Brown, Assistant City Engine", X/
DATE: December 31, 1987
SUBJ: Stratford Ridge Preliminary PIat Approval
Planning Case 87-32
Submittal of the subject plat prompted a study by BRW to analyzefuture access to undeveloped parcels, access onto Minnewashta
Parkway, future utilities, and storm water runoff (included j,n
staff report). The application of the report is not to dictatespecific lot layouts for the surrounding parcels but to analyzethe requirements of Stratford Ridge such that future development
may be accommodated.
Of the two options presented in the report, option B was pre-ferred over option A for the following reasons:
Minnewashta Parkway serves as the collector road for the parcels
on the west side of Lake Minnewashta. The number of accessesonto Minnelrasht.a Parkr^ray is Iimited to tswo additional points for
Lhe review area. Option B provides for greater access from theeast while providing a "back door" access from the nortsh viatrunk highway 7.
Option B also facilitates t.he locaEion of the existing lift sta-tion south of King's Road, while keeping addiEional requiredsanitary sewer capacity in the existing sanitary sewer alongMinnehrashta Parkway to a minimum.
In light of the report conducted by BRW as it specifical.ly re-lates to St.ratford Ridge, the fotlowing items are presented foryour consideraLion:
The proposed pIat, StraCford Ridge, is located adjacent to
Minnewashta Parkway approximately 0.6 miles south of trunk high-
way 7. The 9.04 acre site consists of a rolling rneadow with agrove of trees on the north side and a wetland on the northlrrestcorner of the plat. The site is surrounded on three sides by
undeveloped property, with the fourth being MinnewashE.a parkway
and Lake l4innewashta.
Planning
Decembe r
Page 2
Cornmi s s ion
31, 1987
Sanitary Sewer
ltunicipal sanitary serler service is available to this sitefrom an existing I0-inch line which extends along MinnerrashtaParkway. The proposed manhole *2 should be loweied to itsminimum elevaEion to provid future service north of the easterryproposeil cu1-de-sac.
Trunk sizing of the sanitary sewer sha1l be reviewed as partof the plans and specifications submittal.
Water Service
Municipal
existing
Parkrvay.
water service i.s12-inch watermain
available to E.he sitewhich also runs along
by
Mi
an
nnewas h ta
The plans propose aline of Lots 7 and 8the south and to the
wi I1 be investigaLedreview.
6-inch watermain along the cornmon lot, Block 1, for future service of areas towest of the siE.e. Again, trunk siziogas part of the plans and specifications
Roadway
The applicant has provided for a 50-foot right_of_way for theaccess along Ehe southeast corner of E.he plit and tfrioueh - -
straLford Ridge Drive. This is in accoraince wiir,-lrr.-6itvstandards for urban construction.
Although the access road does not intersect Minne\vashtaParkway at right angles, the intersect.ion is ."".oi.Ui" to,the proposed use. Any additional traffic ,rotumes'',rt i;; ;;ybe generated by future development would requir. p.""i"i""ito be made for the access road to intersect -Minneiashta
Parkway at right angles.
The gravel driveway shown on t.he south si.de of the platserves as access for the parcel adjacent to the west side ofStratford Ridge. The applicant hai provided for a 33-footrrght-ot-way to accommodate the driveway and a 17_foot per_petual road easement to facilitate the extension of theaccess road to t.he ,rrest should the need arise due t.o futuredevelopment.
Since the width of the proposed right-of-way along E.hesoutherly plat boundary changes from 50 feel to 3i feet, thewesterly curb radius should be trunkated (refer to attachmentThe proposed curbing could serve as a traffic hazard to west_bound traffic.
#3).
Planning Commiss ion
December 31, 1987
Page 3
The existing drainage pattern can be characEerized by
overland sheet flow. At present, 4.23 acres of the 9
site drains torrards the northwest corner of the plat,
the remainder flows into Lake Minnewashta.
.04 acre
while
The proposed stormsewer design redirects a portion of the
drainage which used to flow to the rretland on the north\,rest
corner of the plat, to the proposed retenlion pond on the
southeast corner. This plan would reduce the offsite runoff
to the wetland area by 44t.
The applicant has provided a sedimentation,/reten cion pond to
maintain the predeveloped runoff rate. Although the pond
meeEs tshe required capacity for a 100 year storm, the loca-
tion will have tc facilitaEe an eight-foot wide trail.
Drainage easements for the retention pond should be adjustsed
shorrld shifting of the pond be necessary. A revised plan
shoulti be submitted for approval by the City Engineer.
Gradi4land _Erqsiqn Coqtrol
The proposed gracling p1,an indicates
site. The applicant should provide
removal pIan.
grading of the entire
the City with a tree
Additional erosion control should be placed along the south
side of Lots 1, 9 and t0 of Block I. Erosion control shall
consist of staked hay bales and snow fence. The City's stan-
dard detail for Type II erosion control should be added to the
grading pIan. Staked hay bales will also be required around
i1l- stormsehter inletss. Recommended conditions:
I
2
4
5
The applicant should supply the City with a tree
removal plan.
Type II erosion conErol , staked hay bales and
fence, shall be placed along the south side of
1, 9 anC 10 of Block I.
snow
Lots
3 A typical detail for Type
hay bales and snow fence,grading plan.
II erosion control , staked
sha11 be placed on the
tol{ood fiber btankets or equivalent shaI1 be used
stabilize all disturbed slopes greater than 3:1
A11 streets and utilities shaIl be constructed in
accordance to Ehe ciEy standards for urban
cons Cruction.
Drainage
Plann i ng
Decembe r
Page 4
Commission
31, 1987
AII erosion controlto the corunencement
8
10.
L2. The curb radius asreplaced by a curbattachment *4.
measures shaIl beof any grail i ng .
in place prior5
7 The applicant shall enterwith the City and providesureties as a part of thisof the improvements.
a development agreement
Ehe necessary financial
agreement for completion
con-
9
The appJ.icant shaIl obtain and comply with a1lditions of the watershed districL pernit.
The proposed rnanhole 2 shall be lowered to ics
mum possible elevation such that service fromnorth of the east.erly proposed cul-de-sac rnayfacilitated.
The applicant shall provide for a 20-foot trailment. aLong Minnewashta park$ray. If shifting ofponding site is necessary, a revised plan shal1submitted for approval by the City En!ineer.
m1n1-
the
be
ease-
the
be
11. Drainage easements shall be adjusted toentire ponding site should shiiting ofnecessary.
cover thethe pond be
shown in attachment. #3 sha11trans i E.ion section as shown
be
in
I
2
2
Attachmen t.s :Location Map
Curb DetailTransition Detai 1
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PUD-R
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SUMO(NTABLE CURE AND GUTTER
2,
EHq-6'11J"'f.'-"iililHlBo,U*'^IP"'rTf l-nj-PLACE cuRBs. cor\rsrRUcr rapen EEVii-r.rd'exd brcuRB RETURN RADrus AT STREET rrurEnsEc-rrorus.'
c_9.qr_ o_t rApER To BE TNcTDENTAL ro sum.rou;viasr-eCURB AND GUTTER.
CURB TAPER DETAIL
:
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
WETLAND EVALUATION WORKSHEET
REFERRAL AGEIiCY COMI'IENTS
C OMMEN TS L
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RECOMMETiDAT ]ON'.D -22,,..-.,,'D a-*o^-r."rIL
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DATE oF INsPEcTIoN /.' /tI/
S IGNATURE :i 4 "A^J"2{
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General Specifications for Constrrction of l{etland f or liildlife
The basi n will have:
freeform (not even-sided) shape to increase shoreline
length and provide isolated areas for feeding and
resti ng bi rds;
shal'loy erbankrEnts xlth slopes of 10:1 - 20:1 for atleast 30X of the shoreline to encourage grorth of
emergent vegetation as refuge and food for xildlife;
uneven, rolling bottom contour for variable water depthto (a) provide foraging areas for species of wildlife
feeding in shallow water (0.5 - 3.0 feet) and (b)
encourage grorth of emergent vegetation in areas of
shal lo!, water and thereby increase interspersion of
open water with emrgent vegetation;
layer of topsoil (muck from an existing retland beingfi]led) on bottom of basin and the slopes to provide a
str i tabl e substrate for.aquatic vegetation;
rater level control (culverts, r'i ser pipe, etc. ) to
minimize disturbances of wiidlife using the Betlano;
fringe of strubs on upland surrounding the basin to
minimize ciisturbances of rildlife using the vetland.
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
ST. PAUL OISTRICT. COFPS OF ENG|tlE€AS
1135 U S. POST OFFICE 3 CUSTOM IIOUSE
ST. PAUL. MINNESOTA 5510'.1ll79
NoveEber 5, 1987
Ms. Jo Ann Olsen
City of Chanhassen
Asslstant Planner
P. O. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 5 5317
Re:stratford Ridge by Robert prerce -- prace sand for beacb enhancenent;Lake Mlnnewashta;
Sec(s). 5, T. 116 N., R. 23 !{.; Carver County, MN.
We have revleved the lnfornatlon provlded us about your proJect. Thevork ls authorlzed by a natlonvlde Departnent of the Arnl p..rftl provi;;dthe enclosed condltlons and nanagenenl practlces are folloved.
This deterninatlon covers only the proJect referenced above. Shoutdyou change the deslgn, locatlon, or purplse-of the vork, contact us to makesure a vlolatlon eould not occur. Our telephone number is (6Lz) 728_7lii.
It ls your responslblr.lty to rnsure that the vork compr.ies lrith theTCTES Of thl' lEttEr ANd thE ENCIOSUTCS. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS CONFIRMATIONLETTER DOES NOT ELIMINATE.THE NEED FOR STATE, LOCAL, OR OTHER AUTHORIZATIONS.
Thls authorlzatlon explres on January :.'Z, 1992. If you have anyquestlons, ptease calt Mr. Vern Reiter at (6t2) 725_7726.
SincereIy,
Enclosure( s )
Deteroination: Tltle 33 Code of Federal Regulatlons 330.5 (a) (26)
-/-,rtlnAEr'1,f;g ttopay'l
/ Chiet, tregulatory Functlons Branch' Cons truc t i on-operat i ons Dlvlsion
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Constructlon-Operatlong
ReguLatory Functlons ( 88-212N-?4 )
)." .'
':iirfrq 1iB7'
CHANI{ASSEIiI PIII{NIN C DEPI.
IX}IESOTI
lutborlty for tbe follovtag actlvltles ls tlveE at 5, Code of Federal
RetulatloEs (CfR):
[gf 77o.5la)(26) Dlscbartes of alredSed or f 111 Eaterlal. 1!to the yaters
ilsted 1n Dalagraphs (a)(25)(1) and (11) of thls gectloa ercept those rhlch
cause tbe loas or aubstaJltlal, adverse Dodlflcatlo:l of 10 acres or roore of
auch yaters of the Uatted States, lEcludlE€ retlards. For dLscharges yhlch
cause the loss or aubsta.atlal adverse Eodtflcatloa of oEe to te! acres of
auch yaters, i.lrcludlDg eetlalds, Dotlflcatlo! to the dlstrlct cltlnGer 1s
requlred 1E accord.a.Ecc ylth Sectlon 150.7 of tbls aectloD. (Sectloa 404)
lEpo!,llldEents ,gaters.
(1) lloE-tldal rlvlrs, atrea&s, a.ud thelr lakes a!
llcludlEg adJaceEt vetlaDds, tbat are located above the head
(11) Otber loa-tldal yaters of the Ualted States,
lEc1udlEg aiuaceat vetlaDds, that are tlot part of a surface trlbutart
gysteE to lDterstate vaters or EavlgabLe eaters of tbe gElted States (1.e.,
lsolated vaters ) .
Realonal Condltlons
t-l llal orlty of the ProJ ect Requlres State Perlllts a.Dd/or ADDrovals
Aay persoE lttteldlat to dlscharte dred€eti or f111 Eaterlal lEto l{lEEesota-
desiglated "Protected 9atersi shall EubElt art appllcatlon to the UltrEesota
DepartEe!.t of Latural Rcaourccs ( ITIDNR ) before begllElDg vork. Actlvities
.re authorlzcd under thlr Datlolylde pcrElt after the appllcaEt obtahs
all appllceble lllD-Eesota DepartEeDt of Natural Reaources ([DNR) and/or
Itll!.Ecaota Pollutlon coEtrol Ageacy (I'lPCl) perElts aDd approvals. York nay
lroceed upoa recelpt of aII appllcable ItlD[R aEd/or UPCA perBlts alrd
approvals.
Otber State ald local authorlzatloas Eay be requlred.
Thls dl8charge of dredged or f1ll. Eaterlal vouLd. cause the loss or
aubsta.ltlal adverse Dodlflcatlotl of :
t,.(.] Less thaB otle acre of eaters of tbe gElted States
t_] Betvee! 1 a-ad l0 acres of rraters of the lrai.ted States
bcl 1
(See rlvcrae slde. )
Thc follorlng S?ECIAL (DIDIIIO S rurt ba follccd ln otdcr for thc n.tforrldc pcrrlt, to bc valld:
l. Thrt any dlachargo of drcdgrd or fltl ..t.rlrl rlll not occur Ln thr prorlrlt, of e public r.trr .upply
lnteLct
3. Thrt th. rctlvlt, rlll not Jeoprrdl:c . thr.rtenGd ot cn&ngcrcd rpcclcr .. ld.ntlflad und.r th. lndengcrcd
Specler Act or dertrct or rdverrcly rodlfy thr crltlc.l hrbltat of ruch rpocler
4. That th. ,ctlvlt, rhell not rl3nlflcrntly dlrrupt the rovG.ent of thorc rprclrr of .qultlc llfa lndlgcnour
to dha raterbody (unlcrr thc prhrry purporc of thr flll fu to hpormd,rt.r)t
5. Thst eny dirchargc of drcdgcd or llll retarLrt rhrll con.l.t of rult.bl. r.t.rl.l frcr froo toxlc pollu-
tant3 in torl.c .rountaS
6. Thrt ery rtructur. or flll .uthorlr.d rhdl br proprrly rrlntllnr&
7. ttr.t th. .ctlvlt, rllt not ociur {n . corpon.nt of th. Netlonal If lld end Sconlc Rlvcr Srter: nor ln a
rlvcr offlclellt degignetcd by Congrcrr rr e ratudy rlvcri for porrlblc lncturlon ln th. rtttGr. rhLlc thc riv.r l.
ln an ofIi.cld ,tud, .t.tutt
8. Th.t th. .ctlvltt rhrll not c.ur. !n rmrcceptrbte lnt.rf.tcnc. rlth mvl!.tlont
9. That. lf th. .ctlvlt, lry rrfuarraly rfflct hl.torlc propertlcr rhlch tho thtlonrt ParL Scrvlcc hrr llrtcd
on or dctcnlncd eltglblc tor lirtlnj on thc N.tlon.l naSlrt.r of lllrtorlc Pl.c... th. p.srltt.. rlll notlfy thr
Dlttrlct Englnccr. If th. perrlttGe incount.rr r hlrtorlc proprrt/ th.t har not baan llrtcd or dctcrllncd otlStblo
for llrting on th. ll.tlon.l R.girt.r. but rhich rry br cllgLblc for llrtlnt on th. tl.tlon.l nc8l.t.r, he/rhc rlll
notify th. Dlttrlct Enginccr.
to' Th.t th. conrtructlon or oprr.tlon of th..ctlvlty rlll not l.p.lr rrrorwcd trlb.l rlghtt. lncludlnS. but
not lhlt"d to, rrrerv€d ret:r rtghtr tnd tr..tr flrhlng tnd huntlnS, rlShttl
ll. ftat ln c€rtrln ,t.ter, rn lndlvldurl .t.tc u.tar qurltt, c.rtlflc.tlon rurt bc obt.lncd or ralvcd!
12. ftat ln ccrtaln atet.r, an Lndlvldual rtata co.atrl tona lanagGrant co[rlrtanc, concurrGnca nurt ba
obteined or raivcdS
t3. That the lctlvlt, rl11 corply rlth rcglonal condltlonr rhlch rry hevr born rddtd by thc Dlvfulon Englnccr3
14. Ttet thc !.nrg"rent practlc.. rhrll bc follorcd to th. r.rl.u. .rt..t pr.ctlc.btc. (Sec revcrrc rldc.)
trtlttttt,ltttttttt
2. That eny dirchrr3r of dtcdgcd or flll ratcrlel rlll not occur ln rrcrr of conc.ntntcd rhcllflrh productlon
unl.r! tho diechergc fu dlrcctly r.l.ted to e rhalllIrh hrrvcrtlng .ctlvlt, .uthorLrd by paragraph (a)({) of thl.
acction!
5
PRC DATE: OcE. 27, 1987 ^
C.C. DATE:
CASE NO: 87-32 SUB
Prepared by: Sietsema,/v
(
STAFF R=PORT
Fz
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=LL
L
ko
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Subdivision of 9.04 Acres into 15 Single Family Lot
wesc side of take Minnewashta, approximaEely I mile
south of Highway 7
PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:Robert Pierce
440 North Arm
Mound, MN 55364
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
RSP, Residential SingIe Fami 1Y
9 .04 acres
RSF
There are no parks in this area.
Minnewashta Regional Park is locatedon the east side of LaKe Minnehrashta.
COII,IPREIIENS IVE PLAN :The Comprehensive Plan ideneifies this asa park deficient area. The E.rail pLanidentifies Mil:ne{rashta Park'rray as highpriority for a trail system. This
development lies with:.n tl:e MUSA Iine.
fll
-...4..€ - - r ',
CITY OF
EHANHISST}I
ADJACENT ZONING
EXISTING PARKS:
-r
Robert Pierce (Stratford Ridge )october 27, L987
Page 2
BACKGROUND
This area is a park deficient area,
borhood park facilities. However,tified as potential parkland and itrequire dedication of over half thecontinue to be made to acguire thedepicted in the Comprehensive plan.
most significantly in neigh-this area has not been iden-
may be unreasonable tototal site. Efforts s hou ICIland around take St. Joe ask
Trail needs should not be overlooked. Minnewashta parkway hasbeen ident.ified for a linear systen in the trail plan. Cirrentresidents in this area have made it clear that a irail systemalong Minnerrashta parkway is very important to them.
rt has not yet been determined where the trail along lrin'ewashtaParkway will be located, most likely it rdi1l have C5 cross theroad at some point. As the grades are prohibitive for a t,railsystem on the east side of the road, a Lrail easement should beobtained along the west side.
RECOII{MENDATION
rt is the recommendation of this office to accept park dedicationfees in lieu of parkland and to request a trail-eaiernent of z0feet along the h,est side of Minnewa-shta parkrrray. As this traileasement wilL have minimal- impact on the devel6pment, it isrecomrnended. that traiI dedication fees be requiied as we.L1.
L
Update October 27, 1987
The Park and Recreation Corunission acted to recommend that theCity accept park dedication fees in lieu of parkland and torequest a 20 ft. trail easement along the weit side of MinnewashtaParkway. As this is an easement aloig the rear 1ot lines, thecommission recommended no credit be given toward trail dedicationfees.
: *-..
Park and Rec CommissionOctober 27, l-9g7 - page
Meeti n9
!2r\Curt Robinson: Are you saying
Jin Mady: Since all it's goingthere's no reason to right nowl
a typical
to be is
gravel then and not
basically an access
bi tuminous ?
to the park,
Curt Robinson: So it's Lori Alternative #I?
Lori Sietsema: This iten wirr be going to city council r,rithin the nexttwo weeks to a month and r wirr sen-d oui a lett-"r with the staff reporton the agenda to that meeting. rf you'rr reave your name and address here
Ilr1.r:-I:._"ure .I get thar to you. r won't Ue do-ing a mass mailing againso rt you're not on my list or you donrt carl me and terr ne you want tobe notified, you wonrt be. thank you.
SITE PLAN REVIEW,STRATFORD RIDGE, ROBERT PIERCE.
Lori sietsema: This subdivision is along Minnevrashta parkway and rthought of trails- BasicarJ.y, it'is 9 acies and they are prolosing tosubdivide it into 15 singre family rots located on ihe we=t iiae ot raxeMinnewashta about r/4 mite south or tu z. This is Minneerashta parkvray.r carred up Mark immediatery and asked him, when he was driving uy ana'checking out Minnewashta parkr.ray, which side he thought the trai.r wourdlikely go on once rre got to that point and he said qiit" hon"=tly it,sa Toing to have to cross. we're not going to be able to get it on one side\cr the other arr the way down. rt,i just inevitabre but in this sectionyou can see the contours. rt'|s quite steep down to the lake. The otherside didn't rook nearly as steep but r thi;k there stirr is contours inthere. what rrm proposing to get a Lrair easement arong Minne$rashtaParkvray. Because that trair shourd have a minimum impac-t on the homesthere, because it will be their rear lot rines, r,m pioposing that theystill \,rould be subject to the trail dedication fee. -we are parkdeficient in this irea. Lake st. Joe has been earmarked on the rand useplan as.eventuarry some day owning that for a park in that area. Again,our policy has been to have neighborhood parks of no less than 5 ."i.".'rf rre were to take 5 acres from this site; he,d have less than half ofhis deveropment reft to develop and r don't think that's right eithei.rrm,recommending that we accept park dedication fees in lieu of rand andstilL keep. our eyes on Lake st. Joe. r don't know that ,",." going to---get an active park in this area but if we get a trail along ttin-newJshtaParkrday and get a passive park at Lake st. Joe, r think w;'11 have servedthose peopl.e to a pretty good degree. I think they'll be pretty happywith that. With that I'Il take any comments or qu6stions.'
carol watson: r think you were quite right. rt would be unreasonabre tohave him dedicate over harf of his potentiarLy deveLopable rand for parkus?. Besides that, when you look at this piece of laid, it,s reallyweird.
/ qim Ma.dy: It is harfway between the two roads and that $rourd be nice
L rom that respect. Horrrever, r think Lake st. Joe, if we went with the
Park and Rec Commi ss i onOctober 27, ]-987 - page
Meet i ng
I3
{
north side of Lake st. Joe, that would be.the best place to put a park ifwe courd get it which is sonething that wirr be aisc"ssla-i"'t", on in theagenda. As far as Irm concerned, you,re right. w; ;;J iJ t.i." "littre money- r donrt believe that- getting a 20 r..t ".""."nt hurts theproperty owner in any way and there is no reason...
Lori Sietsema: And again, if we can put the trail within the streetright-of-way, thatrs optimar as arwayi, thatrs what we would do and theni{e liouLd be able to give that easement'bacX.
Larry schroers: r like direction that things are going and r arso likeIlt: .ra.: of a passive park by Lake St. ioe rather than an active but Ithink that area is par-r aetiiient ai iur'.r active purri .i. concernedalso' rrm wondering about that area diiectry to thi north ;f Kingrs Roadwhere it says RsF. A: {?. as r,m ur.i",'thai,s " t;"i;t-i".g" open areaback in there- r think that $re snould rnayue consi&er r'ooiini at thatarea. Keeping our eyes on that $,irh the inrent "i
-;;";i;i; "t .., i.g a moreactive type of park in that area.
Jim Mady:
- Maybe just combine the t wo. put the two together. A1r. werearly need is one barrfierd and something ui9 enough- ioi-" 1o"".rfierdand the-n put a rarge passive area irr ln" ru.r, uy tn6 .o.a .na a path dosrnto the lake.
Sue Boyt: Is the area to the west developable?
Larry Schroers: No. That's farmland. Kind ofback th.ere mostly. The-rers realIy nothing goingis an abandoned railroad right_oflway -iurtner togoes from Excelsior to victoria- '
like
on
the
abandoned farmlandthere aE all. Therewest back there tha t
Robinson moved, Mady seconded that the park
recommend to accept park dedication fees ina trail easement of 20 feet along the vrestand that trail dedication fees be requiredand motion carr ied.
and Recreation Comm issi onlieu of parkland and requestside of Minnewashta earkw-ayas weLl. AIl voted in favor
REQUEST TO UPGRADE HOCKEY RINKS AT CITY CENTER PARK.
Lori sietsema: Dave flans€n was the gentreman that was sitting over there- and he left with me what he sranted t6 say. Originalfy f,is requesEincluded turning the hockey rinks so we wourdnit have'to go through oneto get to the other. r realize that that is an inconrranian." if yourre- 9l?yilg a. game, to stop play everytime somebody lrants Eo ger across. It,suntortunate that it was de-igned that way. I believe th.t .o"t hockeyrinks are faced the way that our rinks arL simply recause'wn"n the sun
- refrects off of the hoakey boards, you end up -r,uiring .-*.t "pot on thatside of the ice rink. If you turn them. tn"--othe. ;;y, y;",.; 9oin9-to-, h:y". one. who.Ie Iength of your ice rink that's going # h'ave water on it_L',o EnaE's trhy you try to keep it Eo a smarrer spot. Dave realizes that
&r5 'a -,a--.-
_f
CITY OF
EH[I[H[SSEI[
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 . CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant City Planner
MEMORANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE :
SUBJ :
Steve Madden, Fire Inspector
September 25, 1987
Stratford Ridge
"L
It is the reconmendaE.ion of the fire inspection department
ramp be installed in the area of the proposed timber wall.
-veould replace the steps. The rarnp would aid greatly in any
rescue that might occur. Also, this rvould oe an advantage
handicapped person who might use the area.
that a
Thi s
F-o any
All other aspects of Ehe plan that I reviewed meets the Fire Code.
#0
3
MIIUNEHAHA
WflTERSI{ED
CBEEK
DISTRICT
Lll(E itlrxtT0ilt(A
P.O. Box 387, Wayzata, Minnesota 55391
mAR0 0F ilAtil8tR& David H. Cochran. [tes. . Albert L. Lehman . John E. T]omas
Cam lle 0. Andre . James R. Sp€nsley ' Richard R. Miller . Michael R. C€rrcll
{t5 oIl Rlvt,
September 28, 1987
City of Chanhas senAttn: JoAnn 0lsen, Asst. City Planner
690 Col ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55317
2
Re: Stratford Ri dge
Dear l''ls. 01 sen :
t|e have received the information you forwarded concerning the 9 acre
sub-divi si on called Stratford Ridge.
The developnent appears feasible and will require a permit review and approval
by the Board of l,lanagers of the l',li nnehaha Creek l,latershed District.
Some of the Districtrs concerns in development of this type include that:
1. The rate of stormwater runoff from the site shall not incnease as a resultof the proposed development. This criteria shall be analyzed and met forrunoff producing events with return frequencies of I and 100 years.
The quality of stornwiater runoff leaving the site after development shal lbe equivalent to runoff quality for the existing condition. Th.is criteriashal'l be analyzed and met for runoff producing events with a return
frequency of one year.
Appropriate erosion control methods are in place to prevent the transport of
sediments off-site during and after construction.
Engi4eers fo
/(r,;^ (.
J
4 Prompt restoration of the disturbed area be completed with seed and mulch or
sod.
Thank you for the opportunity to corment.feel free to contact ne at 473-4224.
If you have any questions, please
Si ncerel y,
EUGENE A. HICKOK AND ASSOCIATESrte District
Kevin Larson, Engi neer
cc: Board
G. Macomber
REC=:','=f,
ocT 0 5 1"Q87
CITY OF CnNrnes.etr
).
H x
wrltt![t0 lout0ltY
United States
Department of
Agriculture
Soil
Conservation
Service
219 East Frontage Road
Waconia, Minnesota 55387
To
Stratford Ridge
(87-32 SUB,87-17 CUP)
Jo Ann 01sen, Asst.
Clty of Chanhassen
590 Coulter Drive, p
Chanhassen, I'lN 55 317
Date October 23, 1987
City Planner
. O. Box 147
File code
Attached you w111 find a soil map sheet rrtth approxLnate plat boundarlesnarked and single sheet interpretatlons for eacir so1l on ihe property.Soil infornation in this report ls for general plannlng uses and- 1s notsite specific. speeific questlons at speclfic ],ocattons shoutd be addressedby a qualified eng j.neer.
The Hayden soils (Ea) of the slte are generalry sulted to butlding site are-velopnent. shrlnk swelr and frost action in tlis sotl may damage paved sur-face,s and footings if not properly designed. Temporary high water- tablesnay be encountered in the Iia soil type.
The prlnclple limitation to develop,ent appears Eo be site slope. Erosionduring a*d after construction shourd be controlled. please consiarer thefollowlng reconnendations :
l. An erosion control plan should be prepared and specify the rype anil tiningof erosion control practices to be applied. Grading ancl Ltabrlizing the siteln stages would reduce the total sediuent generated at any one tiuel
2. The beach and bank area east of the parkway could become unstable iffoot traffic is not confined to srabre aieas. -Any constructioD on the bankshould be done r^rith the approval of a qualifled. engineer.
3.' The- responslbility for inspection and malDtenance of beach area facilitiesshould be assigned so people and money will be available to provide up keepLn the years ahead.
nL ,(
nle Wendland
Distr ct Conservationist
REC=].-=f,
ocT 2 6 i9B7
clTY or qrmnesse{
o The Soil Conservation Servic€i! en ag6ncy ol lhe
Uniled Slates Depanment ol agricutrure
bto
Subiect:
l.(@).ttr--J
CARVER COUNTY, MINNESOTI
'Cs
HENNEPIN COUNTY R 2:
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rrf E rDzr saus corsrsrs or DlfP lrlr DIlrxD solls tol@ n gllctlr tll,L rrDa DEDUE tltrs! 0r oooS lstaxlxlt roR txEs. tRt sortlcl utE rs vEt D rr (Ill lrln 2 EEs tlrct. ttl 8l,r6uprl lllE r5 Drrt 6Rllr5! ta(rrLONi, IECS Mer, t'E! S!B9II IS Bmr rro tltlurits! !rcn Lrl lD Ctlt talt ta tElEs tttct, tE s[Elllllr1)l! t8
L!G8t OLM nclX LO r. StO?tS t lEf, tDoll 0 tO 50 PETCE . ltas ltl lAD Xn CI?lrrO. 'rttlltElll) lto EDtlrO.
tllla slirrs
tm t5-t00 a!-t!t!-t@ to-t6 to-t!r5-t6 90-100 !0.95
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Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order.
MEMBERS PRESENT:Tim Erhart, Steven Enmings, Robertdermuth and David Headla
Howard Noziska
Siegel, LaddConrad ,
MEMBE RS
James W
ABSENT:
I
srAFF PRESENT: Barbara Dacy, City planner and Jo Ann olsen, Asst. city-FrEnE'ei-
ROBERT PIERCE APPL ICA NT, LOCATED AT 6830 I.!INNEWASHTA PARKWAY ON THE
EEST END-TEST SIDE OF MINNEWASHTA PA RKWAY,APPROXI MATEL.I/Z MILE SOUTHOF HIGHWAY 7.
A. SUBDIVISION OE ACRES INTO 15 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS ON
PROPERTY ZONED RSE, S I NGLE FAMILY RES I DENT IAL.
B. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT .
PubIic Present:
Name Address
9.9 4
(
Robert Pierce
Ered Pl ocher
Chuck & Helen Lawson
Mary Mann
Gordon Simonton
JoAnn Hal lgrenCarol Uppal
Mary Jo Moore
Ray Roettger
Barbara HeadLa
De11 SchottJeff Mar ti neau
Appl icant
Box 181, Victor ia
5807 So. Hwy I0I
7211 Minnewashta Par kway
375 Hwy. 7, Victoria
6860 Minnewashta Parkway1I0I4 Oak KnoII Terrace No.
3231 Dartmouth Drive
3221 Dartmouth Drive
6870 Minnewashta Parkway
7034 Red Cedar Cove
2565 No. Shore Drive, Orono
Jo Ann
Erhart
OI sen
moved,
presented the staff report on the subdivision request.
Emmings seconded Eo EabIe the subdjvision-request of 9.04-single family Iots on property zoned RSF for ioberte applicantrs request. AIl voEed in favor and motion
acres into
Pierce per
carried.
15
rh
L
hli
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISS ION
REGULAR MEETING
ocToBER 28, L987
PUBLIC HEARING:
Conrad:
beachlot.
Nov, staff has the report on the tonditionaf use permit for theHow can we move on this until rrre see the subdivision? -
Planning Commj.ssion Meetj.ngOctober 28, ].9g7 - page 2
Olsen: Make it conditioned upon approval of the prelimi.nary plat.feel we can condition it upon upprir"ur or tt. l"u5i"i"i'"..""rt .."t"all the requirements.
Jo Ann Orsen presented the staff report on the recreati.onar beachrot.
Robert Pierce: As we brought this before the city wetve been workinghand in hand r,rith them trylng to develop this and- I,d like to say, onewe feel we're willing to worI to the benefi t of a1l around us as muchas possible and with the City as much as -possible. Agajn, our thinkingis that we h.ave approxi.matery 9 ";;;; & tana there and the reason wecame in with the beachrot uni on" dock with three stalrs in it is thatthis, as r understand your. orainances-r' wourd be the exact same as faras the dock question: _A single famiry home could have three boats onone dock' r know and have understood'clearry that there is concern foryour lake and that vou want to limit the amount of boats that can be onit. r can under s taid _ that. That;;-;h;'!{e came in with thisparticular, what we-feel vras a very l-ow usage of the lake and thenallow the other peopre to enjoy a b6ach. up and down MinnewashtaParkhray, as Irm sure yourre awire, there are numerous usages of thismanner. some of them.much higher usage than wfrat wei re -piopo"
i "q. Wemeet most of the requirements for it. we are a little short on one.on the one side, the northerry side, we have about 120 feet and on thesoutherly side we have about g0 feet and jt do"s nurioo, u Uitinbetween. our square footage is over and above what is needed for onedock and also j_nstead of 2gA feet we have apcroximately 500 feet oflakeshore- The thing that is really criticar t" .ri pr1. i-s to get tnedock.- lVhat. we plan js that we woult let one of the three 1ots, ljke 3,4 and 5 each have one slip on the dock. If we can do this, we can comein here and set a mood foi a very h j.gh quality or upper bracketneighborhood which wilr carry ri-9ht -on -through. I^rerre rooking at homesroughly in the g36s,6gq.OA range on the froniage and the S2oq,qga.qqrange behind. Without that doak, the vatue of the property i" greilfyreduced. we just feer that in order to do that, it-chingei the whoreidea of what wetre tlying to do- The housing, the cost ivourd certainrybe an asset in the idea of valuat j.ons for the neighbors and jf we,rerimited without the dock, you just can,t begin to think tt,ut ," can putin that type of homes. It jusa v/on't. !.rork. I rh j.nk from thatstandpoint and in that vray, werre trying to keep a mini.mal use of therake and bring in a rear quality deveropment. r'm avrare that peoplesometimes just plain and simpre don't li.ke deveropment and r canunderstand their feelings but we'd like to do it luch that ihedevelopment can set a precedence for further deveropment uerrrna if thatwoufd ever happen or if it doesn,t happen, if you hlve a njcedevelopment on the lake f ront that can move on back, i.t wou Id donothing but make Jt possibre to just conti.nue on that price bracket andmake the j.r land vrorth more at a future clate. -If t.herJ are anyquestions maybe I could try to anshrer them.
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I
t
folks moved ther eproperty. We've
( thu:!-Lawson: I lived there for over 1q years. My_\ :n 1915. Eor many years they rented boats on thj;
t
Planning Commission Meeting
October 28, L987 - Page 3
always had a dock and I believe that somewhere I read that the City of
Chanhassen wants to open up the lake for everybody. Not just a fewpeople living right along the shore and tha t seems to me what thJ s pl anis opposite of what it should be. I guess that's about all. Maybe I
should make that cl-ear. I nean the Planning Commiss j.on's plan is
opposite not Mr. Pierce's.
Ray Roettger: I live 3221 Dartmouth Drive on the north end of the
Iake. f guess Irve looked at property and new homes going up and some
of the areas are thickly wooded. A developer cones in and does a n icejob and they're building $30g,A0g.gg to $4q9,990.06 homes. i've always
kind of wondered $rhy doesnrt somebody come in and take some .l-akeproperty close to the Iake where you have a view of the lake andrelieve us of some of the taxes we're payi.ng. I thjnk we're being
overtaxed on the north end of the lake simply because we're sitting onlake property. l thjnk this is a pretty good approach to it. Taki.ng
the three lots and putting a dock out. It wonrt overload it anynore.
I guess first of all when I came j.n here I was kind of against Lhis butI think just looking at the basic proposal it seems quite reasonable.
The thing I would be agaiost is a common beachlot which we have, and I
have one right along of my home, and that has been nothing butproblems. It's in the Sterling Estates area. ive have perhaps 10 .Iotsthat that outlot r.rould serve and there is a dock and there was oneboat, then two boats then three and then there was four. The problem
is I'm looking at it and so is my nej.ghbor but nobody takes care of it.
They just tie up their boats. Sometj.mes they break loose. Nobody hascut the grass. Nobody has picked up the cans. Nobody has done
anything so I'm against any beachlot that provides for a number of
homes because it just doesn't work.
Conrad: So you don't ljke th j.s proposal?
Ray Roettger: No, I think thj.s man has the right approach. put somehigh prJ.ce homes, and I have nothj.ng against people whc can't affordthe higher priced homes but I'n saying to relieve the tax burden, ifyourre going to put some high prjced homes someplace, you certainly cando it there and provide a single boat, not three boats for each home.If he limits it to that, one boab and he goes on record that he's goingto build homes for $390,qqq.00 or more.
Conrad: This proposal and this beachlot js a L-ommon
donrt like. This is a beachlot. VJhat the applicant
one dock which houses three boats.
beachlot i.rhi.ch
is asking for
you
is
Mary Jo Moore: I feel tha t the Ci ty djd a two year study on lake
r.. usage. We came up with a pl-an... accepted by everybody in the area.r.- I see probl-ems vrith beachlots. Itrs Ieft up to the residents of Ehe
Ray RoeEtger: Three slips. One for each one of tem, Lots 3,4 and 5.
Conrad: Yes.
Planning Commission Meet i ng
October 28, L987 - page 4
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I
Ered Plocher! so you have somewhere in the neighborhood of 46g xo 500feet of rakeshore here which r believe staff is recommending not have aboat which sounds like on the surface of that, a bit illogital.Whereas if it were sold as one parcel, it could have one dock. Itcould have a dock as one parcel. In other words, Mr. Lawson who hasIived there fox 70 years has been illegal" to have .a dock on thatproperty?
Olsen: His dock was grandfathered in.
Ered Plocher: So you }j,ave 4gg to 5qO feet of Iakeshore on Minnewashtaand you can not have a dock on j.t. That seems to me to be j.llogical.
civen the ordinance to protect the lake and I don,t know of anybody whois against that ordinance but there has to be a balance of logic. Tohave that much ownership on a lake and not be able to have a dock isillogical. There are several parcels of property along Minnewashta
Parkway that have that same condition. It's too bad al.I those property
owners aren't here tonight to hear that. They'll never be able to have
docks there when that property changes hands. I think it's the duty ofthe Planning Commission and Counc j. I to take a Iook at the Iogic of
ordinances where they were well meaning and well written but maybe didnot foresee every circumstance- Thank yo-u.
Headla moved, Erhart seconded to close public hearing.
favor and motion car r ied .
AII voted in
Conrad: For my information Jo Ann, t.ell me why a property owner
couldnrt buy this, or two, .and not have a dock-
Olsen: According to the subdivjsion ord j.nance, i.f a parcel of Iand is
separated by a street, it's a separate parcel. A dock is an accessory
structure and you would have to have the prjncipal structure on bhereprior to having a dock. Mr. Lawson did have a dock there for many
years but it has not been there or in use for .the past year. If there
was a dock sti11 on there, it would be grandfathered in.
conrad: When that requirement and the ordinance was set forth, do you
thjnk it was considering this particular situation or this type of
area to patrol it. Irve also seen the new townhomes go on LakeMinnewashta and dockage has increased. Now they are ;ooring boats bysailboat moorings. It just gets out of hand if you allow p6ople tostretch the ord inance.
Fred Plocher: r'm a deveroper of the Red cedar cove Townhouses, justaround the corner from here and r represent the selrer of the propertyas the real estate broker for this property so I,m not unbiased. As iunderstand the ordinance, those lot rines could not continue on theother side of the road. Is that right Jo Ann?
OIsen: Not without 1ot area variances.
r
Planning Commission Meeting
October 2g | 1987 - page 5
situation? It wasparticular one.
probably anticipating something else and not this
olsen: There are other communities that have lakeshore lots similar tothis that are considered part of the property across the street wherethe person would have a dock but right nord the way our ordinancestates, thatrs the way we have to look at it.
Conrad: Then we can consider this a hardship?
orsen: The way we look at the hardship is that there is no use of theproperty.
Conrad: We are telJ.ing the applicant that they canrt use the 1ake.
Olsen: They can use the lake but not have a dock.sand blanket. They can have a. swimmj ng beach.
Erhart: r agree that it makes sense to somehow f i.gure out a i{ay to puta dock here so rrm trying to look at this hardship as welr. rt seemsto me that if you pick the hardship because you,rl comparing this toanother applicantion nade on Lake Riley.
OLsen: No, rde looked at it specificaLly.
Erhart: Okay, for a.moment let's just look at that. The hardshipthere is a 50 foot wide lot. That 50 foot r.ras created by thedeveloper.
They can have the
{
Erhart: so r rook at this hardship being different than this hardship.rt boils down to the onry technical difference is this one is 5?. rtmeets all the requirements except for one. r,Ihere the other one missesat 50t and the fact that it isnrt even meet...
Olsen: we r^reren,t necessarj ly trying to compare. It'saccording to the Attorney,s of f ice, there,s no hardship
Conrad: Let me geL a koack of where you're coming from
jusE tha tin this case.
Tim.
Erhart: I was trying to f igure out if this was a state highway i mpo sedhardship versus the other one being imposed by the devel0per himself.
Emmings: r guess this case is to different to- me from Lake Riley thatv,e don'|t want to get i.nto extensive comparir*is mayue-'except that itwas brought up in the materiar. over t-here vo" t ii-u id root wide rot/ wjdth and neighbors riving on each sj.de and i ttri"[ in"-t,'" a terribreL situation. That'|s where r think beachlots are .n auu.L.- r arso rive
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Planning Commission Meet i ngOctober 28, L987 - page 6
on Lake Minnewashta so Im not unbiased either. r rive on the northend of Lake Minnewashta. weive got a rot of crassic examples of how abeachlot shouLd not be constructed on Lake Minne$rashta. ie that as itmay, in this situation, we've got 5gg feet of frontage, to even suggestthat you-could deny a dock to someone who bought thai whore parcer tome is ridicurous. r have almost no doubt in riy mind that if r ownedthat parcel I know I'd get a dock. I thj.nk if the City wouldn't giveit to me, I have little doubt that a Court would. And given that; Idonrt see why there shouldn't be a dock. Now, the othei side of thatthough, Ehe frip side of that is there could be certainry one dock outthere and if we Iimit the number of boats. Use by three dif:erenthousehords is not the same as use by one househord and you discussedthat at length here but, still for the amount of frontage thatrs thereand everything else, if it's limited to just three boats, one boat per1ot then I don't think thatrs an overuse of the property in any way. Iguess Ird be inclined to find a way here to draw the distinctionbetween this and a lot of Ehe bad proposa I s we,ve seen and alloe, thereto be a dock here. One thing I'd like to put in here as a condition,I'm concerned about the ramp as provi.ding vehicle .access. Theordinance provides that you can't have parking on a beachlot butwhenever you make it so easy as dr iving down a ramp, I think you'reinviting it and I'd Iike to see someway, I almost thing they ought tohave it closed off by some means.
Olsen: I th j.nk when they talked about a ramp, Ehey meant more of a
ramp for the handicapped and wide enough for a wheelchair and forpedestrians if they had to go down with a streEcher. Not necessarilyfor cars -
Olsen: That's prohibiEed on a recreationaL beachlot.
Emmi.ngs: The other thing is, I think there ought to be, wetve talked
about this from time to time too, there ought to be a specific
obligation of a homeowners associatjon to maintain thjs beachlot such
that if the Cj.ty at any time feels that it's not being adequat.ely
maintained, thaE they can go in and maintain j.t and charge that back to
the homeowners association and Eo the individual lots that use it so
that we're sure that sre donrt wind up with any messes 3l,ong Ehere that
hre canrt somehow effectively cope with. other than that, I think there
is a hardship imposed by the road.
Siegel: what's the definition of a hardship in this case?
olsen: where ther-- is not a
section where the enforcement
reasonabLe use of the property.
of the ord i. naoce- $roul.d cause an
Siegel: Make it unliveabl-e you mean?
Itrs the
undue hardship.
Emmings: Oh great. If there's gojng to be a ramp then it shouldn't be
able to be used by cars.
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Planning Commission Meet i ngOctober 28, 1987 - page 7
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siegel: so when sonebody is.designing a piece of property to meet hisown design, that is not necessarir-y deterrnined as i trirasnip when he iscreating it himself. or .creating whit we may assume to be a hardship ifvre assume that not having a dock on his property is -a trarasfrip. Ii,ssort of interesting because a hardship can take arr kinds c: differentforms depending on the piece of propeity invotvea.- i-;;;.. ieith srevewith. the analogy that we would s-ay ir,.t-u si.ngre p.op"iiv owner courdnot have a dock on a piece of proierty of Ehis size is a littleincongurous. I don't think the "ouiti would go along with it. I,mjust wondering if that courd be arso construed- in trrd rilit or commonsense of stretching -our ordinance requirements too far thereby causinga_de. facto type hardship in thi.s casJ. Especiarry in considerationof the fact that -he's- aiking for a dock with only four srips. rt's notlike he's asking for four aocrs witn Jour slips. I would tend to thinkthat werre causing a little more stringency here than is required. If{ l!-:tt:"!: the orher decisions *.ir" -rnua.,'our atcoineys- woutd have ro\ Iook.at that. I canrt see hohr we could not gauni u ao'naltional use- permiE for this purpose.
olsen: A true hardship wourd be whete they wourdn't have any use ofthat property vrhatsoever. There is the opiion tr,ut-tt.v-"Ju:.a possiuryget a housepad on there. They'd have to get numerous variances for thesetbacks but there i:.11! poisibility..,6 the po".iuifity-or urecreationar beachrot without a dock. the biggest irarJsnip-is wtrenit's self created, then there,s no qulstion brif again, ti,i3 i= not selfcreated.
Wildermuth: ...the outlot does not meet the criteria thatin the ordinance in this particulai ..... i think vre eitherobrigation to modify the ordinan". oi .nto.ce the rures.
we 've
ha ve
set up
an
Headla: Are r.re talking now a beachlot for the whole property? Socalled 9 acres? WouLd there two beachlots? One for the three
i;1"..iffi1; ro pur a dock in and then anocner beachloti -H"" io you pt-an
Bob pierce: At this point, wha t we did is basi caIIy came in $rith ageneral idea or concep-t- we could go either "uy-
- lry-ia.. ,u" tnat thedock was for the use of the three ho-meowners .nd the-beach10t would befor the use of everybody else. To answer the question as far asmaintaining it, !9'd be more tiran wiiting to, in ttre -noriiornu."
Association to address that so that would be taken.-i.'ot because oncewe build it and are gone, it's to the advantaqe to us-iol to have that100king nice 5 years from now for severar. reasons. one, I continue tobe in the business and also if we arl working "; ti., tt "-6i.ty, if r", e holdup our end of rhe barsain and we do a nice;;;"i;;;;f,Tt lust makesit that much easier to continue to have a. gogd- working rerationship sothat's just kind of a concept urf-tnJt'. xi.a 1i -"t,.t'ri-r"r. pranning.
/' Headla: The access to the beachlot, wirr it be where the or.d road isL Sojng down to the lake or *"." yor-going to put jn something?
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Planning Commission Meet ing
October 28, L987 - page I
Bob Pierce: r assumed, again I think it can be moved. That is where rjust sa9, a naturar spot $ras for it but itis not cast in concrete.
Headla: Yourve got terribly beautiful oaks there and there areIow spots, do you plan on doing sorne filI between the road andlake?
some
the
r
Bob Pierce: What we had planned on was to bring in some sand. Theyproposed that we have a plan for what $re do down there as far as thetrees. I'd like to be able to cone in there and to trim some of thetrees and just get the underbrush out in the areas that the ceachwirr be and r just kind of anticipated leaving the end toerard the northand the south pretty much wild. Just kind of get Ehe buffer zonebetween the parks and land.
Headla: I see the fire marshaLl recommended a ramp. I disagree withthat. I think at that grade, that percent and somebody going down aramp, certainly not a wheelchair you wouldn,t vrant to go down a rampIike that and if someone was walking down there, s.ince my place isright next to it, I have some idea of what a driveway is, and I think
somebody is really liable to fal,l. I'd Like to leave it up to theoption of the builder what he \,rants to do there and I'd like to see
something, steps like r^re were at yesterday looking at the duck pond. Ithink that would be by far the more practical. Also, if he can have
steps 1i ke that, he can control the runof f down into the Iake where if
he just has a ramp, most. of it's going to go shoot j.ng down the ramp andthen into the lake. I just hate Eo see t.hat. The engineering, when
you have an jdea and you go through a thought process and like you saidyourself you tend to go to an exEreme and Let me carry something to an
extreme here. I th ink the Lawson's qualify for a dock and my rat j.onale
is I've seen Chuck and Helen have a dock there ever since irve been outthere. There's been a dock there and the kids would swim there and
people rrould use that !o fish. I thjnk Ehe principal that wetre
looking at is, is there a dock there the last year. well, my extremeis, why canrt Chuck and Helen go oul. there thjs weekend and put a dock
in. Then they've established they had a dock jn this year.
Conrad: Jo Ann, tell me about Ehe concept of depth in a beachlot.
Maybe I'11 talk !o you about $rhat I perceive the depth issue in a
beachlot is to be and basically it might be a safety factor. It might
allow people space to recreate in. Are there oEher i.ssues besides
those that would be prominent jn terms of why vre wanted 100 foot depth.
Olsen: That's essenLially to provide good area.
Conrad: Would this area have good area to recreate in?
olsen: Itrs rnore or less provides enough spacl for the beach.
conrad: In staffrs opinion Ehen' your opinion, LA ox 12 or ho$rever
many houses werve got here, what do we have 15? 15 houses, is this at
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PIannj ng Commission Meeting
October 28, L987 - page 9
suitable area for a common beachlot?
Olsen: It's not a whole lot of area.
Headla: Let me drawPleasant Acres. TakeIeaves what 40 to 45They swim. They got
Conrad: Adequate room
beach I o t.?
on that property? They can haveland i tsel f would be hard to use
The appl icant has
Parkway will be the ones
whoIe.
is for the whole
always my intent.thing.
a
Conrad: So Iiterally uhat can they doa canoe rack and a dock and really theother$ri se?
Olsen: They could also have the beach area.proposed that just the lots along Minnewashtausing the beachlot.
Headla: I thought ere srere opening up to the
Bob Pierce: The beachlot, as far as swimmJ.ngThe dock issue was for the 3 homes. That was
Conrad: Okay, letrs say for swimming you need a beach area. Is thissuitabre property for supportinq 15 i.^irie= to go- down io it" beach?
Olsen: There is a wider area on the northern part where they areproposing the dock and the beach area to be right now. rtjJ-le tight.
I
a similarjty. co north about 300 to 4gA yards toa\day that parking lot from that beachlot, thatfeet and that,s a1l. They play volleybalL there.plenty of room if you take the parking lot out.
Conrad: So you feel Ehat here Eirere would be plenty of room?
Headra: Definitery.- r,,i.th the approximate number of homes he has andthe way we used our rot, and we uiea our rot a lot in the summertime,what he'd say 3]-,qgg square feeE, r think there is aaequaie room forpark for the nunber of homes he intends.
on the beachlot for people to enjoy the
HeadIa: Right. Tha t,sfor these people.
Olsen: But that wouldvegetation. Accord i ngpermi tted .
Headla: with the plan, can,tIeave the major trees?
no parklng. Not puttj.ng anything do$rn except
requlre extensive grading and removalto the ShoreLand Ordinance, that would
of the
not be
I
Olsen: Yes, they can do that.
they cut out the brush as long AS t hey
(
Headla: Thatrs the way I look at it.Just right on through and to me, that'strees and I think that could really addit's a positive thing.
-{
Conrad: It seems to me we can do two things tonight. Three things.
We can reject it because it doesn,t meet it and one thing that I.mrealIy concerned about, this beachlot ord j.nance, as a lady suggested,it's there. It's not the best buE it,s something that is alsoprotective of a lot of things that we hold dear to us in Chanhassen. Idonrt want anything we do tonight to impact hor., that beachlo: ordinanceimpacts the other beachlots in the community because they,ll alI behere if we set a precedent in some means if it's not justifi:d. Ifitrs justified and ere can rationalize it, then Irm comforta.,e. Ithink we can do a couple things. The part has got to be able to usethe lake and get a dock out there and I think we can alter anysubdivision ordinances werve got to allow it. They could potentially
have 3 or 4 pieces of property that would have docking rights if we
changed that subdivision ordinance therefore not imposing a hardship onthis property so there is an alternat j.ve. We can go and change Ehat
ordinance and make sure that any new folks that move j.n on Parkway and
have property frontage, are going to be able to have a dock there.
That seems logical to me. Rational. I can't imagine we wouldnrt want
that to happen. On the other hand, the proposal seems like a less
intensive use than what I jusE described and j.o that light, I would go
along with the proposal as long as j.t doesn't set a precedent Eor any
other beachlo! in Chanhassen. ThaE's where I'm at right now. Thatrs
why I led in here Jo Ann with my comment, as long as it looks like a
beachlot that people can really enjoy and serves the purpose of a
beachlot, the applicanErs request seL:ms reasonabLe, rat j.onaL and good
for the Lake. I could go along w j.th it. I would have a real tough
time voting for on something tonight unless I knew that the words and
the rationalizaEion and justif i.cation granting the varjance was
approved by an attorney sayj.ng Ehat r.re have not altered anything and
set a precedent for other properties that are already out there. I
would have a real tough time right now wjthout an attorney telling me
how to justify the variance.
Headla: I think thatts probalby the way to go on Ehat- I don't see
why we need a variance.
Conrad: It doesn't meet our requj.rements Dave.
He was grandfathered in.Headla: What requ j rements?
Conrad: No he's not. As soon
grandfathering there.
as he sells i t's gone so therer s no
t Emmings: No, he's subdividing the vrhole property. Thatrs
get into a problem. He's subdividing Ehat whole property.
$ras one lot, now there are 15.
hrher e you
Where Ehe re
Planning Commission Meeting
October 28, L987 - page 10
I can see aII the brush cut ou t.
\,.rhat it will be. He,s got ni.ceto that whole thing. I think
Planning Commission Meeting
October 28, l-987 - page 1I
Olsen: And thepast year.fact that they did not have a dock in use for over the
Headla: But if he put a dock in thj_s rreekend?
Olsen: It srould be non-conforming.
Headla: Why if he has a dock every year?
Olsen: From I know, that dock hasn,t been in place for over a year.rt comes back to the subdivision ordinance defining that as r separateparcel. Just to r.eview that, the Attorney and sta-f f , we did revieweach of the scenarios that Mr. conrad is p;iniin;-"r1. -'wt"i;";-;"="
could possibry grant 3 0r 4 10t area varilnces uia t"t that outl.t A beseparated and each have their o$rn dock or it has a recreationalbeachlot. This was when we thought thaE it rrourdnrt be abre to evenhave a recreational beachlot witliout a dock, we r,rourd have to permitthem some use. we were reaIIy torn because no, we donrt want non_conforming 10ts al0ng the rake there but then we iounJ ," courd havethe recreati.onal beachl.t without the dock. Give him stirr some use.r knor', itrs not the i4ear use and maybe not the most rogicar use but !,redid get confirmation from our Attorney that it is not a hardship.
,- Headla: rf the La$rson'!s serl it and he's had his dock there, does thati. grandfather totally go by the *"y"ia"z
olsen: rf the dock had remained there and it's arways been there, wasstill there tociay, that dock would be grancifathered in.
wildermuth: Could he put a dock there today, the original owner?
olsen: No because technically it,san accessory use. you have to l.)avehave an accessory use.
Olsen: The dock isn,t there
a separate parcel and the dockyour house there first before
i.s
you
Headra: rf he lived Ehere and he's harr the dock there for umpteenyears, just because he moved away, isn,t thaE dock still u.flaa
Headla: Right now it isn,t
anymore.
there but what
used in over a
if it vras there Last year?
year, it has been iemoved forOlsen: If it hasover a year, itrs not been
lost i. t.
for
wha t
you
conrad: The one dock though, this is a beachrot. we,re askingbeachloE, the applicant. is, but the Ueacnf.ot ogdinance governsgo on it and based on the physicai oi*e-"=ions of this beachr-ot,not have a dock.
a
can
can
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r
Planning Commission Meet i og
October 28, L987 - page 12
Headla: I hear you say that butbeen sEanding there it would have
Erhart: Not for the subdivision.
Headla: Not as a beachlot?
Conrad: Not for a beachlot.
I hear Jo Ann say that if a dock had
been grandfathered in.
no
The
you
Lot
Are we talkingother words, does
d eep?
Headla: Okay, so that's not a point.
Conrad: No. Theyrre asking for a beachlot. Our ordinance sayscanrt have a dock based on the fact that it,s not deep enough.does not meet the depth requirements of our beachlot ordinance.
Erhart: Ladd, I have a bit more bas j.c question now.about a variance to have a beachlot here at all? Inour ordinance say that a beachlot has to be I00 feet
Olsen: It says 200 feet wide.
ErharL: And there's no depth requirement?
Olsen: No.
Erhart: How do you tie the 100 feet 'n jth the dock? what's the logic?
Whatts the logic for not having a depth requirement for a beachLot andthen having a depth requirement for a dock?
Conrad: Therers a flaw someplace but I think Ehe logic Tim is the factthat, I'm not even sure what the Iog j.c was and Itve been around enough,Irve been t.hrough the development of these things and I canrt rememberwhy. I vras just trying in conceptual terms trying to chink about it.
Agai.n, if you have a dock, it probably means Ehat people are going toswim, boat and play around there and therefore you need soine property
to do that on and therefore you should have enough depth to do thaE and
keep you away from, usually there are adjoining propertj.es and you're
trying to keep people a$ray from those adjoining properties. Youtretrying to give people space so they're not sjtting on Ehe property
line. When you don't have that depth the assumption is, you may be ina different situatj.on. You may be in a situation like this. I guess I
could construct a scenario why that LgO fooE depth makes sense jn many
cases for a dock. Irm not sure thaErs the real reason thaE ere thought
of many years ago.
Emmings: There's another provision jn the ordinance that Irve never
seen before and it says that each recreational,. beachloE has to have thewidth measured both at the ordinary high water mark and at a point 100
feeE landward from the ordinary high \,rater mark of not less than 4lineal feet for each unit which has apert j.nent right of access so we
r,roul-d have to have a variance for that provi.sion, dock or no dock.I
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PJ. ann i ng Commission Meeting
October 28, L9g7 - page 13
Olsen: That's an option if you don't have the eridth. That you couldjust go over a certain amount of feet as kind or an optionlather thanthe flat out width.
Emmings: That,s not what it says.
Headla: On Ri1ey, how many square feet did they have?
Olsen: It was 56 by L00, 5,000 square feet.
Headla z 5,0A0 and now $re're talking about 3L,gbg square feeE.
tasle this
:or rect i ng,
What is it.
controJ-1ing
Conrad: I really have a general feeling lhat I,d like tothing. I'm not sure why. Maybe to outiine the options ofjust the.ability to have a aoik in a situation tiie this.our subdivision ordinance or our zoning ordinance that isthe fact that itrs a separate parcel?
Olsen: Subdivision. It's under a definition of a.Iot.
conrad: r guess that bothers me. r don't think that is considered,this particular type of situa.ion and r think we should review it.Therefore, we could review Ehat and give the "flri"unf-oit..f :1.:::":!i:::,1", rerms of use of rhar property. on rhe other hand, r^,eL :9uld -go ahead tonight and approve it. the Jtaff is saying no dock andEhat doesn,t appear acceptable to me. I think the proplrty has gotenough foot.age there so I guess I,m looking for staif,'I personallywo.u.Id be. Iooking f or somebody to help me out of this one andrationarize, justify, wiEhout us Erying to verbali.ze i.t here i,n pubric.
Erhart: I don,t think therers any reason to conclude this thingtonight anyr^ray.
conrad: rtrs got to come back but r think we should give the appJ-icantand those peopJ-e here a general drift of what werre doing. Maybe wehave- Maybe in our comments we'ire giving a sense f";-;i;;l we,re doing.
Bob pierce: rn the hardship case, wouldn,t just the idea lhat beforethese ordinances were invoked, ret's just .our-r a number tot, r.t," ".yhis land rdas worth $lSO,OSO.,S becaus6 he had a dock u.,a-h"a lakeshore.NoL, these ordinances Ehat came about 2, 2 L/2 xo f Ve.is ago, you,vetaken his parcer and now you've saia it's ".f i". iri-ii il"=no.". r*spretty to 100k at and all tha.t but you can't put a dock i;'--It ".;;to me that wourd be an incredibre ha-rdship recause i-;;.i; guess thedevaluation of the y.l:".of his prop"ity has gone down 40t. I meanthaE's how important it is.
conrad: r don't know. rrve never found that ieduced varue creates ahardship as lono as you had some reasonable use of that property and, I'm not an attoiney tut as $rerve hratched- those things, werve never beent- able to say Ehat you,ve decreased value by l0?, therefore itrs a
r
hardship.
Bob Pi erce :
P.l ann i ng Commission MeetingOctober 28, L987 - page 14
That I s never come
But the word reasonable there is kind of the key.
conrad: r think we alr recognize that the groperty needs access anddeserves it and r guess my feeling is, whaC you've-proposed is treatingthe lake much better than some alternati.ves that f could see-Therefore, I feel good, J'd like you to maintain that posture at leastin terms of this beachrot. et lelst for me. r like h6w it rooks andhow it reads right now. rrm not sure, the rest of Ehe subdivision wehaventt talked about it but I would hope that there are someimprovements in the rest of it. I gue-ss r would rike to tabre this ifeverybody feels comfortabre erith that action and allow staff to murlover our comments and come back erith some alternatives and s:mejustification given the fact that we think that there should bedockage. staff shourd recommend to us r.rhether in light of maintainingthe philosophy of the current ordinance, how we do that.
up in years here.
Erhart moved, Wildermuth seconded to table the Conditional
Request *87-17 for a recreational beachlot- AII voted inmotion carried.
Use Perm i. tfavor and
Tom Heiberg: Mr. Chairman, I missed the public hearing. I know it'sclosed here this evening. I just have a cougle questions regarci j.ng
this matter. Would you have time to indulge another c j.t.izen for abouttwo mintues?
Conrad: Go ahead.
Tom Heiberg: The reason Irm here is I,m concerned primarily ;ooucpedestrian and roadway traffic along Minne$rashta parkway. As many ofyou probably know, there are a lot of us out in that particuiar area
aod I come from, I live on Red Cedar point at 3725 Soutlr Cedar Drive.I'm just coocerned, I walk on that darn road everyday and people driveit too fast. Iim guilty of driving it too fast. A lot of people,
there are not good sighL lines there. I can see the developmenE of theproperty should not be discouraged. The petitioner should have theopportunity to do that but I see that we,re once again Puttingpressure, develoPment pressure, traffic pressue, in my judgment on
inadequate roads. Then we're also talking about contributjng topedestrian traffic across that way. I don't know $rho will be the
owners of those homes but t would suspect there witl familied involved.
Werve had too many close calls already on Minnewashta Park$ray and Irmvery concerned about encouraging additional close ca11s.
Conrad:
comments
couldin a
you
note
Yourre also aware
A walking trail.
have our PubIic Safetv Director address those
to us the next time back? "in terms of crossing.
Erhart:a trail?that Ehere's a 20 fooE strip designaEed for
Planning Comm j. ss i on MeetingOctober 28, L9g7 - page 15
(
Tom Heiberg:
This is a 20trailway?
No, I was not avrare of that.foot walkway along M i nne vra sh ta
f rrn sorry I was not here.
Parkway, a 20 foot wide
Headla: That's what the park andwhich seems to be extremely wide.
Recreation Commission is recommend ing
olsen: Thatrs an easement. rt rrill a 5 foot trail 0r an g foot trair.
Headla: Over
more traffic
by.
Emmings:
in Lake Susan HilIs theythere. Tom, f've got a
ha ve
study
5 feeE andon that if
they have ayou want to
lot
stop
Tom Heiberg: rrll be happy to see that and maybe we had been noticedbut if you recall r was heie maybe e.o"ti," ago wi. tf, Ci.g-,-eniI and EdHasek, hers on the park and Rec Board, and f -traven,E ;;;'or teard anyresults yet of our requests to put a trairway in there or r"1xw.y *ittthe improvement of that.rcad. ^It;";-;y error for nor doing my
::il::..* rhere but r an just ..utryLn.'"rn.a. rhank you iJ. you.
::":.?: _]!-llr: adjacenr tando$,ners shoutdn,r rhey haveor E.nls meetinq? On the Lawson property, anybody ,rho hasis adjacent to them, shouldn,t ti"V'u" -iotified:
OIsen: yes.
been notified
a home tha t
I
HeadIa:
adjacent
Ol sen :
Ever ybod y
I know the
landowners
We made sure
aro und
peop 1e
were.
Lhe lake too.
around the lake but I,m noE sure Ehat the
everyone tras within 509 feet.
IPPROVAL OF, MINUTES: HeadIa moved,mrnuEes of the planning Comrnissionamended by Ladd Conrad on pages 12motion carr ied .
Conrad
meet i ng
and 15.
seconded to approve thedated October 14, l9g7 asAII voted in favor and
COMPREHENS I VE PLAN UPDATE -TRANSPORTATION , MARK KOEGLER.
Mark Koegl.er: What I've done, if you recall our discussion of the lastmeeting, we talked about a *nor" f""x of ropics "nd ;;;;; the thingswe wanred ro rake just a tirrLe b j.t of ti.. ionijn;;;;;;".. on lras rHLqL' r know it's a subject that rim-ias discuss6d uotrr puuricly anderhen !re've been abte ro meeE i;;.-i;r;-i"-iii!=il"t#;.il. we atsotalked about rhis conc.epr or doioe-a iiltr"-t-ic^ir.I["I'iir;eu, or some.' of these corridor studi;s ana tnii i."i=ion !." v"i-i.'uJ-,ouae by rheL city council. r betieve ia;. g;i;; -Jo u" made on Monday night jusr
_j_.l-}B#RBry
PLANNING
TRANSPOBTATION
ENGINEERING
AHCHITECTURE
AENI€II RIiGFOSE, !,1O1€ELO. JAFVTS G|AFONER U\€ THREST€F SOIIAAE . 7CO TH|RO STnEET SOJTH MNNEAPOIS. irN 55a15 . PlOllE 612310.07Q
oecember 2, l9A7
City of Chanhassen
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317Attn: llr. Gary l{arren, P.E.
Clty Eng i nee r
RE: Subdivisio
Stratford
Northwest
Stratford Ridge is
Iand vhich is I ess
on three sides by u
Parkway and Lake Mi
Future access to the entlre
Mi nnewashta Parkway from ei
"back door" entrance from T
mary access from TH 7 is do
of Victoria and/or l,lnDoT, a
between the exi sti ng Leslee
no rthwest.
O'{/IO J SENNETI
OONAIO E HUNT
a proposed subdivision which is to be built on
than 10 acres. This particular parcel of land
ndeveloped property with the fourth side being
nnewashta.
8F $H&$iii$s$E}]
MEEEilUED
DEC 10 i9B7
a parcel of
i s su rrou nded
l,l i nnewashta
eneral study area
few from K ings
proximately twe I ve
proximately l5
PETEF E JAFVIS
crcs/ao L cFlarc
CAAIG A AM('NCEEN
O€NNIS J SUTLIFF
$iT?
Ei{$;i{Ei$:iiG EiFI.n Revi
Ridqe
Chanha
ew
undeveloped area wlll be provided primarily by
ther the north or south, with the potential for a
H 7. It is our general feeling, however, that pri-
ubtful vJithout some form of agreement with the City
nd certainly }Jould be I imited to one access point
curve to the north and the rail road crossing to the
The northern boundary of this area is formed by the Pleasant Acres subdivision
with street right-of--ways platted for extension south into this study area' The
southerly and iesterly -bouhdaries are primari ly undeveloped land with-the
southerl! boundary aUirtting the low lving landi adjacent to lqle St'..Joe' and
the propirty to t-he west b;ing within-thi boundaries of the City of Victoria.
Approximately a dozen homes are currently located lrlthin the
wi r most having primary access from M'innewashta Parkway and
Road. The geneial area is currently under the ovrnership of
owners with the parcels ranging in size from a few acres t0
acres.
s
a
ap
ap
MINNEAPOLIS
AICH'AO P\AOTSFELO
OENVER
LAVFENCE J GAADN€R
FI|CHAFO O ATGFIM
I}IOI AS F CJFFOLI
OAIE iT AECXMANN
fl ta.
PHOENIX
Dear l,lr. llarren:
At your request, we have completed a preliminary overview of the properties
surioundind the proposed Stratford Rldge Development ln Section 5' Townshlp
116N, Rangi 23l.t in the Nl', corner of Chanhassen. lle would like to offer the
fo'l lor,,ing general coments for your consideration:
Si te Planni ng
MNALO \II FINGBOS€
MAF( G Sl/vENSOr.r
Mr. Gary Warren
December 2, 1987
Page 2
It is apparent that the future development of the area is dependent upon the
ability of a developer to assemble several of the parcels into a single develo-
pable package. Some of the individual parcels may stand alone in this regard,
but at least one-half of the parcels are dependent upon assembly of a col lective
package. Platting of the entire area may occur in a variety of ways t00
numerous to surmarize. l,le have considered two options which we have included
for your consideration. Both are dependent upon the collective assembly of
several parcels by one developer. It appears as though the primary development
potential for this area (considering RSF zoning) is with minimum lot sizes of
15,000 square foot with the potential for larger more expensive lots and an
internal road system. Access to l.linnevrashta Parkway should be I imited to a
maximum of two connections along Lake Minnewashta.
A portion of Iand which lies in the Clty of Victoria has access restricted to
the north due to TH 7, to the west by the rai lroad and to the south because of
marsh land. The optimum access to this tract, }Jhich could be subdivided into
100-120 Iots, is from l'{innewashta Parkt{ay through the review site.
Another tract of land which is similarjly restricted in access lies within the
Chanhassen city Iimits to the south of the southwest corner of the review site.
Several residences are currently at this location and the region has the poten-
tial to be replatted to contain approximately 20 Iots. The present access to
the existing residences is along Kings Road which runs along the southern border
of the review site. The future use of Kings Road ls dependent upon the disposi-
tion of the existing homes ln the outlying regions.
Access
llith the large number of lots which could be accessed from Minnewashta Parkway,
care must be taken to keep the future requirements of Minnewashta Parkway in
perspective. It is likely that future development will necessitate the
upgrading of Minnewashta Parkway as a collector road with subsequent widening to
four lanes. Any development al lowed adjacent to Minnewashta Parkuay should,
therefore, make al lowances for such an outcome.
The proposed plat submjtted by Schoell and Madson for Stratford Ridge includes
provisions for an access road at the southern boundary of the property. This
concept has been carried through in our option B. A road in such a location
would be well suited as an access to the interior of the review site. In such a
situation, there would be a moderately high volume of traffic and therefore a
need for a road of sufficient width and section to handle future needs. A
36-foot wide roadway should be considered. Because of the ownership conditions,this access road must be placed v,ithin the Stratford Ridge plat, at least up to
the north-south entry road (see attached exhibit). After this point, the right-
of-way dedication and road section could be tapered down to match the existingdriveway. The fulI w'idth could then await the development of the rest of thearea. The future al ignment and connection of the proposed access road should becarefully reviewed. A 90 degree intersection }rith Minnewashta Parkway would be
the most desireable, but not absolutely necessary. The two exhibits, which areattached, illustrate h o!r, this alignment may be considered with future improve-
ments.
l,l r. Ga r
De cembe
Page 3
arren
, 1987
Future right-of-way dedi cati on
developer to provide access to
of cul-de-sacs, (as shown in 0
exi sti ng roadway.
exi sti ng
vity to
I opment
manhol e
stub be
the review sit
and is restri c
rai I road and T
an el evati on o
hould be considered from the Stratford Ridge
he north. Such a layout would reduce the number
ion B), by allowing for continuation of the
he area of concern is predominantly below
lude a direct gravity flow connection to
a force main to the same area would not be
here is owever, an existing sanitary linee. The invert elevations arer site filling is needed.
yl,lr2
s
t
pt
Utilities
Existing sanitary sewer and watermain run along the north and east borders of
the review sjte. Over half of the total review site will drain to the sanitary
sewer line along Minnewashta Parkway. A portion of this area wilI be served by
an existing lift station near the southeast corner of the site. The I'ift sta-
tion pump capacity should be considered. Full determination of such a need is
beyond the scope of this report.
The sanitary flow from the Stratford Ridge plat ls planned to outlet into the
s
th
to
in
ex
ystem along Minnevrashta Parkway at a point xrhere it can flow by gra-
e main regional lift station north of TH 7. To allow for future deve-
the north of Stratford Ridge, it is recormended that the proposed
the eastern cul-de-sac (MH 2) be Iouered as much as possible and a
tended to the north.
cross TH 7 for future sanitary service. This area is Iow Iying
from direct connection with victoria facillties by the
Sanitary flo!, from the remainder of the review site uould probably flow to the
north. A connection could be made to the existing sanitary sewer line along
Glendale Drive. This flow drains to the lift station north of TH 7 mentioned
earl i e r.
The City of Victorla has requested consideration of property to the northwest of
ea
ted
H7f9 . It appears tha40. This would p
tt
rec
and
T
the review site southeast of TH 7
an economi cal ly feasible solut'ion.
alonq Pipewood Curve adjacent to Victoria's
about 937 so a lift station would be require
,hsit
do
Watermain connections can be made to the existing system at the Minnewashta
Parkv/ay aCCeSs points. An area of Concern would be along the access road on the
south Lorder of Stratford Ridge. The preliminary design submitted by Schoell
and l,ladson does not provide for service to future development on the south side
of the road. Such s'ervice might be provided by the installation of a main along
the road, as indicated in option B.
Storm drainage from the review area presently f'lows to the northwest through
existing culierts under Highway 7, to the west into Victoria and to the east
into Lai,e Minnewashta. Oui reionmendation would be to maintain these drainage
patterns. It is necessary to construct detention ponds to restrict-off-site
ilow to predeveloped levels and to allow for sedimentation. Some of the pond
areas colld be used as green space or parks during nonstorm conditions.
Mr. Gary Warren
December 2, L987
Page 4
The proposed Stratford Ridge storm system and street grades should consider the
future roadway extension to the north. Catch basins and street grades may need
to be revised at the time the temporary cul-de-sac is removed and the roadway is
extended to the north.
Ie hope this brief overview of this study area assists you in your site review
of the Stratford Ridge plat.
If we can offer further assistance, please let me know.
Si nce re ly,
-RI NGROSE-VIS-GARDNER, INC.
fy A.P
GAE/5K
Attachments
E
'YGs?Lts1ttc
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N
o
STRATFORO RIDGE AREA
Lrk. Mlnn.w..hlt
crw 0f o illlsstfRE:;t...:i:
oqc te. .
o xsrs& ?ufi{rc otn
OPTION A
EXISTING PROPERTY OWNERS
NOBTHWEST CHANHASSEN
SUBDIVISION CONCEPT
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RBAR HEADLA
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LUTHERA
LIWRENCE
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o
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EEL\r DI WEN
AWRENCE D
ELMER J, IIUN9INGEA
Hill
7
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/ PLEASENT AC RES
2NO. AOD IT ION
l
MARTIN FOY
I I ---r
o,
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.}q
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PLEASENT -ACAES
HOIVEOWNENS
A sso c tArlo N CH nntit ERSON,
1 ON
IJP
&
JO :IE
o
o
STRATFORD RIDGE AHEA
Latc Mlnn€w.thta
OPTION BL)
JAMES BOYL
KER
ARLE
L
HoLY cBogs.
LUTHERAII CHUN
r
CH
oE.ALL
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N IAA S ON
HEA/^
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ARBAIA Mr-a EAl-
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(
EN
N GERE"l HU
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KINGS ROAD
l3r!ll'
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EXISTING PROPERTY OWNERS
NORTHWEST CHANHASSEN
SUBDIVISION CONCEPT
1
"cAABt.ES+I.
I
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L--.
V^ricE B. GRANNTS
V^NCE B. GRANNTS, JR
P^TarcK A. F^RREr!
D^vro L. GBANNTS, III
RocsR N. XNt rsoN
LAv,OFFrcEs
GnaNNrs, Gnal.txrs, Fannnr & KNLrrsoN
Pr.oFEssroNAL Assocl^'tloN
Po6T OFFTCE Box 57
403 Noi.vEsr B^Nx BUTLDTNG
16l NoRTH CoNcoRD EXCHANGE
SourH Sr. P^uL MrNNEsor ,r07t
TEIEPHoNE: (6121 4ir-1661
November 12, 1987
beachlotset a
are different
TrLEcoPtEi:
r5t2t 45r-2119
DAvtD L. HAx.MEYR
M. Ctclu^ R^Y
ELLrcTT B. KNErsck
MrcH^ErJ. MAYER
F:EC::'.'=f
NOV 1 6 1,187
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Ms. Jo Ann olsen
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive, Box
Chanhassen, Minnesota
147
55317
RE: Stratford Ridge DeveloPment
case No. 17- 17
o.
A
O. The conmission wants to be able to pernit the applicant to
have a dock on the recreational beachlot. Eow can they do it?
A. The Board of Adiustment and Appeal has the ability to
grant a variance. The better approach would be to amend
the ordinance.
How would approving a dock on the recreational
impact the iiXe Riley court case and would it
precedent? The Ptanning Conmission feels there
circurnstances and issues.
The eguaL protection clause of the Minnesota and United
Statei conititution requires that similarly situated
property be treated similarly- The plaintiff in the Lake
i.ifly .i=. would argue that the cases are similar; r
wouli argue that they are not- Granting the variance
would giie the appli-ant another argument that the City
would iot have to-dea1 with if the variance is not
granted. The only difference I see bets'een the two
iituations is th;t one can't comply with the depth
requirement and the other can't comply with the size
reguirement.
D^vrD L. GR^NNrs - 1874-1961
D^vrD L. GR^NNrs,JR. - l9l0-1980
Dear Jo Ann:
Your November 4, 1987, letter asks a series of guestions
regarding the Stratford Ridge Development recreational beachlot
C.U.P. request:
il,2
Jo Ann Olsen
November 12, 1987
Page T\"ro
The City can change the ordinance requirements.divided by a street, however, doesn't functionsingle 1ot. You could count both halves of thelot size requirement, but what about setbacks,coverage, Iot frontage?
A The hardship is that without a variance they can't have adock. If this is a gualifying hardship, then everyone whofail-s to meet minimum ordinance requirements would beenLitled to a variance. Minn. Stat. $ 452.357, subd. 6defines "undue hardship" as:
The property in guestion cannot be put to a
reasonable use if used under conditions allowed bythe official controls, the pliqht of the landowneris due to circumstances unique to the property not
created by the landowner, and the variance, ifgranted, will not alter the essential character ofthe locality. Economic considerations alone shallnot constitute an undue hardship if reasonable usefor the property exists under the terms of theordinance.
"Undue hardship" applies to the use of the land, not the
dock.
O. The Commission feels that it is physically impossible to meetthe requirement of the 100 foot depth, that a dock existedprior to the ordinance and that the ordinance thereforeinflicts the hardship. As a note, the property oirner had adock on the property proposed for the recreational beachlot,but this dock has not existed for over a year.
A Since the dock was renoved there are no non-conformingrights to put it back. If 'rphysical impossibility" tomeet the ordi,nance requirement was all that was requiredfor a variance, then crdinance restrictions vrould haveIittl-e if any meaning in relationship to exi,sting lots.
O. The Commission guesti,oned that if a variance could not bejustified to allow the dock on the beachlot, that we shouldreview the Subdivision Ordinance which defines a lot as aseparate parcel if it is divided by a street. The Conmissionfelt that it should not be considered as a separate lot. Theyfelt that it shoul-d be permitted to be joined with theproperty across the street.
A l-otasaIot forIot
A
O. fs there an existing hardship to permit a variance to allowthe dock? I{hat is the definition of a hardship, is it no useof the land or no dock?
Jo Ann Olsen
November '12. 1987
Page Three
If you need any additional information, please call me. Ifit would be helpful I wilL attend a Planning Commission meetj.ng
and discuss this with the Comm
Ve truly
IS,
DI
BY
Kn
RNK: srn
Roger
\r'r'i:,L .
u\-'r.*.vt(.,t,
- -.J..{-
CRAIG W. FREEMAN M.D.
5AOA CRESCENT TERRACE
EOINA. MINNESOTA 55436
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ADDRESS
LAND DEVEI,OPIIENT APPLICATION, CTTY OF CEANEASSEII690 Coulter DriveChaDhassen, MN 55312(612) 937_1900
OWNER :
/a /',' -l(l,r_ADDRESS
2J,
(te CI y"_
IZip CPs odeTELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQt]EST:
74
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Land Use plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site plan Review
TELEPHONE rpa
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch p1
_ Prelimina
_ Final pla
fr subdivisi.on
L
' platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Street/Easement Vacation
Code
v
PIan
an
ry
n
aX
PROJECT NAI,TE
PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION /j)
REQUESTED ZONTNG ',l /
USES PROPOSED
,/,/
STZE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION
REASONS FOR TH IS REQUEST
y'/o
Fra, nr t AD/S
fil , rn .o.1/, /o 'Z-
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I,EGAL DESCRIPTION
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(Attach
7o /4,e Daztc to /a-,,2-zOa-,a V.rk <cce
/aer ,/' /.if necessary )
/ /-, .1_n nJ"-
./f tre 92..,/.a fir1 e
7j^,'11 4 t ta^/,( a/'. n -. J..
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legal
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Wetlands permit
PRESENT ZONING
</ 1.. ls
?
e!Ld ernr
This application must be completed in ful1 and be typewritten orcrearly pri.nred and must be lccompanied by arr intoiiaii"r-i"a
E+?1. r:gyired by applicabte Ciry ordinance provisions. Beforerrrlng rhis application, you shourd confer wittr the city plannerto determine the specific ordinance and procedurar ..!o1.r..""t"applicable to your application.
City of Chanhassen
Land Development. ApplicationPage 2
FI LI NG INSTRUCTIONS:
FI LI NG CERTTFICATION:
Signed By
AppIi
The undersilned representative of the applicant hereby certifiesthar he is famiriar lrirh the proceauiai'iequiremeni"-ir -"ii-
applicable City Ordinances -
i-._/.tu
/rn
The. undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has beenauthorized to rnake rhis application ioi- ttr"-i."l.iiy-;;r;i;,described
Dat e
DateSigned By
e Owner
Date Application Received
Application Fee paid.
City Receipt No-
by the
thei r
t This Application will be considered
_":":9 "f Adjustments ""a epp""i.-IIneeting.
Planning Commiss ion,/
N%
CITY OF
EHINHASSEN
P.C. DATE: Jan. 6, 1988
C.C. DATE: Jan. 25, i988
CASE NO: 87-10 SIGN
Prepared by: OIsen,/v
STAFF REPORT
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Variance to the Size of On-Premise DirectionaL
S ign
\,.
PROPOSAL:
--t/t 1rz
APPI,ICANT:
1901I Lake Drive East (CPT Site)
Nordquist Sign Company
312 West take Street
Minneapolis, MN 55408
PRESENT ZONING:
ACRE,AGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND I,AND USE:
IOP, Industrial Office Park
69.3 acres
IOP, Redmond, ABC and the
Eden Prair ie
Eden Prair ie
RSF, Chanhassen Esta tes
Press
WATER AND SEWER:Available to site.
PEYSICAL CEARAC. :
I99O LAND USE PLAN:
LOCATION:
The majority of the site is open space
maintained as a prairie.
Industrial
N-
E-
w-
val al
.6800
6eOO
7000
--7too
-72OO
-730C7400
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7500
-?600
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Sign Variance
January 6, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABTE REGULATIONS
Section 3 of the Sign Ordinance permits four on-premise direc-
tional signs whictr shall not be larger than 4 square feet.
The ordinance also states that off-premise signs sha11 be limited
to situations where access is confusing and traffic safety could
be jeopardized anci that the size of the sign sha1l be approved by
the City Council and shall contain no advertising (Attachment #1).
ANALYS I S
The applicant is proposing three on-premise directional signs to
be located on the former CPT site which wil-1 now be the site of
Dataserv. The on-premise direction signs are proPoseo to be 12
square feet (Attachment #2). The Zoning Ordinance only permils on
site premise directional signs to be 4 square feet and therefore
the proposal requires a variance to the Sign Ordinance. The
applicant is also proposing one off-premise directional sign with
a square footage of 12 square feet. The off-premise directional
sign will be reviewed by the City Council along with the request
for L2 square foot on-premise directional signs. The Zoning
Ordinance requires the Planning Commission to act onJ.y on lhe
on-premise directional sign size and not the off-premise sign.
The Planning Commission and City Council must determine whether
or not there is a harilship to approve the variance to the size of
the sign (AttachmenL #3). An undue hardship is defined as "the
properiy in question cannot be put to a reasonable use if used
uncler condiEions alLowed by the official controls. The plight of
the landowner is due to the circurnstances unique to the property
and not created by tshe landowner and if granted will not alter the
essential character of the locality".
The purpose of an on-premise directional sign is to direct traffic
to the visitor, employee and shipping and receiving areas. The
existing industrial sites in Chanhassen (Victory Envelope, United
Mailingl etc.) have directional signs r^rhich meet the four square
foot miximum size required. The directional signs contain just
directional wordage (Employee Parking ->, etc.) and not the name
of the company (aitachment *4). This meets the tief iniEion of a
<iirectional sign. The proposed on-premise directional signs
include the naire of the company and its logo (Attachment #5)'
Staff feels the name should be removeC and reduce the sign area to
meet the maximum square footsage.
The size of the site is unique from existing industrial sites in
Lhat it contains close to 70 acres. The size of the site could be
conslrued as a hardship whereas larger directional signs are
necessary. Directional signs are not meant tso be read from a long
distance, but rather as the traffic enters the site. Therefore, a
Iarger sign is not necessary. what might actually be needed in
Sign Variance
January 6, 1988
Page 3
the future, as a result of the size of the site,on-premise directional signs over the permitted 4
RECOMMENDATION
Staff feels that a 4 square foot on-premise directional sign isadequate for the subject site and that the company name and logoshould be removed from the sign as required by the ordinance.Staff feels a hartlship does not exist and that a variance to the4 square foot maximum size is not justified. Therefore, staffrecommends the follohring:
nThe Planning Commission recommends denial of the sign variancerequest to permit 12 square foot on-prenise directionai signs."
ShouLd the Planning Commission feel the variancet.hen they should state the hardship and grant the
ATTACHMENTS
is addi tional
signs.
is justi f ied
variance.
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
Section 9-3-1, (2) a & b of theProposed on premise directionalSection 3-1-3, VarianceTypical directionat s ignSite plan
Letter f rorn applicantApplication
Zoning Ordinance
sign
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building, or m.il bor.i in ,tl di.rrictr. Th. numbdr rhali bc et tcsjtlht . indl6 in hciSht.
No sitndh.f than $wcrnmarEl si$i. ihsu bc crtctrd oa pLcad uponty publia 3tl.!r, ritht{f{.y or pubtt ..jsnalt. o. proj.d ov.r publicp.oEny.
Thc apos.d uprighB, irFnEudurr rld./or b..tid. of.I si8 $.Ub. paint d a n6rral colo( sldr .s lithr bhE 8r.y, brcwn, ; whir..
unkss i can b. illulueEd fiat sudl Fn of (h. iigo d.ri8o.d c psbr.d
m la0lh6 m.trnE ir inEsrrl !o Gc ov.r.I dcsitn of rh. ,igr.All p..manc !i8is shall b. dcai8n d .nd co$nu.rcd in a rraiforn
Earad atrd, to tlE crGn! po$ibb, .6 rn iDtqrrl p.n of lhc buildins'rrrchitcctuE. Multi{cn rt comhdci.l .rd induirial buildin8s slr.Ih r uniforrr sigoa8..
SECTION 3. PERMITTED AND PROHIBTTED SICNS9-3-l PlrDi$cd Sigr5. TIE folosh8 itn! tr! .Uoecd sithour r pctrlit:l. Crmp.ign Sitrr. Camp.ittr dlrq @r Grc..dht Z qu.rE f..r." _ Ita ailn [rur.oarir dl. [tnt of tL Dartdl ragotraibL fbr rud
ign, alld $ar p.rson rhatl b. r.spollsibL for nt llmovd. Sldr dgr!3
sh.:ll ranain fo. m longs rhan lcv nry-filE (?t d.F in .!y carcr-
d., yar. Thc Ciay ClaI hav€ thc !i8h lo Emov. .rd d.suoy i!
roa confor0irlg io d! ordinaac..2. Ixl.dion.al SirB.A- OEPEmir. sigB. Shdl troa bc hr!6 d[tr fqr. ({) rqurr! fc.r.
Th. n'Ebcr of si8ta rh.[ Doa ,.rr fou, (a) unl.s .ppmv-
cd by rhc City CouEit.B, Ofr-Prsiirc Si8n5. Sh.! bG fmit d to dlurtio.r *]EE BI confusirry .Dd rr.ffr r.fcry ould bc icof'r.diz.d or c.ffic
could ta ir.pp.oprirEly rouEd ttaough rldd. rial strccrt.
Th. dz. of dE si8o 3lnl bG .ppov.d by dE City Co,llcn udihal conai. oo .dvlrtjrht.3. Holid.y SiSrB. SitB a diSt yr wh-h cotrqin a,teid r nEr.$
Dcn.iring 6 r rclitbu3, ord(D.t, r.r.. a bc.t holidty ]rd nooth.r mao.t rtrd *hich rE dirphrld fo. ! Fiod 'Dt
ro .rcc.d
s.vGlty-fiv! (7, d.ti i! .ry crl.'rd.[ )E r.,1. t[formdiotr l Sit[. lnformr.ioa.l 3itrt noa dc..dira iftGo (16)
J. Inlrlnl Si8ns.5. Mdor tu.I pric! silnt r. Fmiu.d on ah. pr!8i..3 oa .!yruunobib lrwicc n rirr only if er.h rig[t rI! sffir.d to th. fuct
IrurrF crrE tn aari aSral p.n of a Sround b* Fofdc 6 pyloa
bodn i dln o(h.t'ir p.ttnirrd in th.r zrnir8 difiic. Mora fudp.icc dtns diflx.d 6 . fud Fflrp $dl aor .rccrd fou. (zl) !qur!f.a in 3i8r dilplry .r!., whca sra sigrs eE meac -l Urcard pcnof. fr!6raodiry borhc$ j!r, rhc !i!Il disphy &. d.vot d to rh.pric! cdnpon.d $rI nd s...d rhirty (10) p.r..rr of rh. tot lritn display aE of rhc si!n.?. NamFhr! Stnt. N.Dcpl.r! si8ns noa cxe.din3 rwo (2) rqurcfcct.
t. Norrlllutrlinrt d CorsEucrion funr. A nonilluminar.d con truc-lioo sitn confincd to rtE sir. of alE consuuc-rion, alto-rtioo orrlpair. Such sign mun bc Emovrd $rhin ooc (l) y..r of th. drr.
of issuanc. of rh. firi buildin! pcfirir on rhc jir. and m.y b. sr-
t.ndcd on an annu.l barir. OrE ign shdl bG Fmiarcd fo. .ich
sEca alE proicd abu6. ConrDgciil .rd indutnal ti8Dr rD.y norcr.!.d fifry (50) squrrr fccr in sitr .I!., .nd Esidcnti.t colrrt uc-
aiql siglt3 may no. cxc!.d twlaty-folr (24) qu..r! f.q in sitn erc..9. O.S.H.A. Sisni.
lO. Public SitnJ. Sitns of. pubtc, ooncommaci.l naruG 6..tcd byr tov.rnmcor.l citity or rgdt.y includin8 s.f.O !i8n5. dircctiordrilnt ro public faciliti6, tr spassi4 dtnr. arrftic iilos, signs io-
dicatina scak or histo.ical poinB of inkrcr, manorirl ptequ.t
aid rhc IiL..
I I . Rr[nnr4. (Car.s.) SaL litrrr. Rumm.8. ..L itn! ih.ll bc ranlov-
.d tiithin t*o dar! aftE th. arl of dE !.L rri rh.lt no. crctd
fiv! (J) squarE fcca. RumErA. r.lc itrt sh.ll nor tc k c.t d h .nypublic rig.htof*ryr. Th. Ciry lhdl h.vc th. rilht to ranol/! r.nd
d...roy i8tr! rot coofo.mht ao lhi! Odi E. Th. Ciry mry trr6sr f.. of S2.fl) ps sitn rcnovd by rlt City.
12. TdDporary dft.lopm.nr proicc. advcnrrnt rgrB .rlctcd for rh.purpos. of scllina or pronotiru .Ity noor.ridadrl pmj.cr, or any
rGidcnrial proicr of &n (lO) or rtld! drrdtir! unin. shzll bc pcr-
Irita.d subjcq !o E follcsiry relutr.iont:A. No. mor. fian lwo (2) .uch iitns 3h.U b. alor,6d p.r proj.ct.B. Sudr .igrt fi.l onty b. local.d alory $r..ti O.a plovidc
paimary accrsr to lha projad ailc.C. Such dSns shal bc r.r back nor L$ than tw.nty-tiv. (2J) fc.r
from 8rly prop.ny lin.. ard sh.ll bG firnly rnchond ro rhc
tround.D. No $crr sisn shrl b. bc.r.d doicr rhrn t*o hlndrcd AqDfca from an .xi$ing r.rit.nrial ds.llina !nn. church, or
school *hich i! not r Dsn of fic proj.cr b.int ro .dvnrir.d.E. Sudr !it[t shr| nol b€ locr&d dos.r rhan lwo hondEd (2m)
f.d from &y oths sudr 3itn hcar.d on rhc 9m. *tc of th.
F. Sitn dilpLy arcr sh.ll nor.rcctd sirry-four (6a) {u.r! fc!r,
^ .rd rh. hcidr of $d i'Snt rhrl nor .rc..d fitl.cn (lj) f.cr.G. Such sittrr ihrl b. rlmor.d wlEn rh€ ForEr bctn! rdvcrti.-.d a alr Frc.rt (toct) .o.rpla.d. For rh. pu.por. of lhi,Etion. O. Frc.n[!. of p.or..t comphtior rh.ll bG ircrc.-llnd br aivtdiaa dk.uob., of dr.Uiltt uritt.ott in tll.r6t l6d.r DEjcr t, lh. ro..r .uhq o(;d, .Io,.d i! rtl.
i!d rron' nny \t(ccr I'rnr{r-way lrnc and \hn! b. r!.mty
anchor.d (o rh. grohd.
J) Such 3itn sh.I onty b. confiuctrd olt of Fnd m.Eri.Jsrd b. non-iuumiora.d.
6) Such liSn sh.[ bc Gmovcd it (5) monrh3 rh.r rh. si8oh6_bcd .rccrtd .!ld d.vctooc m.y nd .pply fo. . ;-ond off-pr.m!.! dillcriotld itn FDir.7) SiSo copy shrU includc rh. D.!rc d srtdivitior &d .ditlctirn artDw only.
Prohibit.d Sito!. Th. folowio3 itDt ur FDhibir.d:l. Advcfli.in8 SiSrL
2. Advanisio8 or budoar !i8n! oo a tnrchcd to cquipndri ludr srdni-tlucl tr.ilcr! wh.r! ri8nit|' ir . principd u.. of rh. cquiF
mant on cith6 a rcmporary 6 pcrmancnr basi!.3. Mdioa i!!lr .rd FLthinf Silnr, .r.A! rjlDc.rld @Fr.!r|! iarr&d bt6cr polaa.
a. Prcicctin8 siga.
,. Roof iilnr. Er..rt th.t r budncar !t! rly b. d.c.d 6 rh. roof,
facii. fi m.rquc. of r buildi8 p,ovil.d i do.. aoa .rr.rld rbovc
ihc hith.st dcv.rion of lhc buildin& adudinf dinrr!,t.A. n@f ,itar dr.l b. t\o.outhly !.cund ltrd .achoftd to ahcfr-r.. of thc buildins ov.' ,hidr rh., r,l cdn tcld .rd
9-3-2
.-- --.-,-,--.r!a.d-
- --buildi4 oft
SECTI I
B. No ponioo of irof iitr! C|.! .il.rd bcyoid $c FiDh.iyof rh. roof.6. Budn6r dtn ehidt .dv.ni!. -r rlivity, buiD6i prDduc or r.r-
*
vic. ,|o bnlc prcducld or conducld an lhc Dnaia€ ufi ?hichtt ito is loc.rcd. wt r. thc oarE 6 Lttoi of t. D;t . b 9lll .o
rcalitu r ad taaart. $dl silra Ery rgtrri! b lrhar fo. [oa mo]c qllc
rbn fiirty (!O drF to|D th. darc of vr.ry. ._!!a
7. wrl c,rphb. *-|z2 -gnt, Patrbh furt a..Dr I p.r6i!!d ia Scrior 92-lO of lhb i. .
Odln&|c!.9. Sitoa rhict l,! lr.tcd G Ec.a, ftlaaa 6 otiuty DoLa.
10. Hqr. occup.tioo !r8B ac.p. f(' (n. idctrjfrrioo dr.. Tb dm 4
mry noa accGd tIo (2) rqura falr i! arta.
SECTION 4. NONCONEORMING USES
wha! tlE p.incip.l u!! of hd L Lgrly roocqlforDios uDdq. ih! C''-nh'.6
shd tE coo3idc.ld drforDir[ if lhq.r. h c6plir!.. rili ria rtD DrDvi- :
tionr fo. thc hd Elrricir.rzoorD! dis r i! rlid ti. FiriFl ur b ruo?.d.
SECTION J, AGRICULTUXAL AND RESIDENTIAL DI;TNJCTS
TIE folo$n8 i8r3.I! dbr.d by p.r'lt i! rhc A-1, A-2. Rt. nSF, R-{ n{ 7.. 1.!d R-12 district3:
95-l Pub[c.rd lDsritutiood Silrl. OE frosnd br profrlc c rrtl rfu+ -rr. -],llEt crc..din! B.nry-fou. (:,4) rqu&! fG. of rilo dithy rrt+ .tell -'-' I
bc pcrei[.d on (h. prtoir.. of.try pblic a insdNrior.l proldr, ]
iviru rha ne|. of ti. frcility l|d oatut of rha u! ard oacrlDlsfl.
Sudr d!a! 3hrll bc bc.cd ir larr rfl (10) fc"r from.ry Foec'; [r;
=rrd Cdl nd.xa€.d fir! (t fc(r in h.iahl :*9-5-2 D6doprncor lddrfatior Signr. Oa ai6or irrad6c io io. ^ . . . + '
noa crc..diq twmry-f9rr (r) rqurrt tcq oi riln dijpLq,.rc." rh;x' -t^ ?
o, r.tr (lO d mor! d?clliru unlrt. Fd th. purDorr of liL ;ioo. ^ .- - So]
'hrejor aro rE" .h.ll b. dcfincd s rhc iarcnodor of rav toat nrJ >r&' v.&
r.iving rrE id.nrifi.d da.btrD.ln *ith .ry rr.drl or -i..r- lrfca _19
io ddiSorEd ur Anich Vl. S.crioE 2t. SuGh rilrs thrll bc b(.t.d so
a! not lo corflid sith rnffr vilibility o. $rla tnrbt.ollc. oD.r.- T
tions. ard shall tc..cuEly arEhorld io th.3ound. c.T
sEcTroN 6. NETGHBORHOOD BUSTNESS AND-INST|TUTIONAL trDI.STRICTS
TIE folloving dgnr th.[ b. rlow.d by FrDn in &y OI or B-t Disriq: ?'
9+l Cround t y Pronlc Bu.io.s St!r. OrE gound bw D'rofil. bu.h.rs )r
or in3trrunon.l sign nd crcacdiru l*(nty-fou,r (24) {rrarE fcd of rim rE I
di.plry aI! $![ bc p6Eit!.d p6 ir!.( froo!.sc. yirt r marinr -"of teo sudr rigrs p.r lot. Sudr lilDr $r[ bc .i!Dr tocaud c lc.!r tcn !I '(10) fcca f.om rny FoD.ny lin..d rt!r[ no(.rcccd fivc (J) fc.r iD rrt
hcishr.9+2 W.I Eusin r. Sisnr. OrE wrll b!fir.. riStl 3lull bc p.'bitt.d F sla SECTION lfronk& for .ad buthcar o.cup.trr Iridb . buildiru. T[. totrt of.I lcl-l p6r
w.! molrnlld ritn dirpLy .rlr $.ll nor ac..d En (tO) p.rc.n. of tic . '*tor.l ar.a of ..dh buiHiru edl upor whid th. sisDt rE rnoulrr.d. brLr :c
no iodiridud busin63 dfa rh.ll crc.Gd arcov-fou. (2,a) lqulE fc.r - .. th.
in riSn disphy .r.r. A u.tl bulincr 3igl| shdl nd tE oornrcrl upoo . --
Ocnlhc w.ll of.tly buildioS whkh f.c.. rny .djoitriot R..idcnti.l DLEicI ' _ d6
eirhour !r intcry6uE publr rrr.a. tct-2 t c
SECTION ?, HICHWAY AND CENER,AL BUSINESS DISTTTCTIi IbTh. follosin8 eiS shdl b. .llrycd by pcr[n h .lt!, BH. BC a BF Dilrrici: I9.?.1 Clound Low profil. Butin.sr Saar. OlE gouo.l br FDfit. buin.r.
sign shru be p.lmltl6d p.r nrG froaE!.. eith.or;cu[ of ryo (2) 2. t
such silnt p.r lot. Sudr .i8 jhtl nor.rc.cd .thty ($) rqurc fca _ - th 3it,l dispLy rft. no. bc 8r.!t6 ti.r.itha (O fcq b h.iihr. Such I
sigtrl sha!, bc bc.Gd 1 L.rr Gn (lO) fc.r froE r[y FoD6ty titrc. I!
rD cr.rc shtll &y b coalli! ltror! rhan rro C) f'tarr'diq butinaa a. (
silrs. whlrh.r ircli d&! rrc pylo! 6 rroud b, pmf . dt,lt.9-?.2 Pylon BulioBr Si&L Orr pytoo buinca. rtr, !a cecrcaia: siiry-for L l(6.) iqusr f.a h 3i8n diph, r!.., lhdt bG p.tlnird p.r lor A pyh. Ibuin6t dln gr.L? th.D drry-fdr, (A) rqu.E f..r, but.q!.| to 6 ILr. th.n cilhry (t0) !qur! f.a, .o.y b. p.rEtrdd rftG t.c|jrnnt r con-
dition l u.. pcrmir. Such !i!nr .hdl b. to..t d r Lur Gr (iO) fc.t t. IIroln.ny p.op.nr lhq .rd ddl ool crc.d traty OO) tcc in h.thi.
Ia no c.!. rhrll l,ly bt co rb mdr lhl! rwo (2) fEcn&dirf bud!.tr j
- _ - .it$. yh.thcr iucl| ii!D..r! pytoa a tDuad bI Diof& 5ir0r. lcl-3 d9-7.1 W.[ Busi&.r Sigr. OE ?.I buir.. rt! {t lt bc !lr,Di[.d ;,cc $dlfrorrlt. fo. c.d butitr .a ocerprd srrhir . buildi{. fb tord of rll iioor.0 mornr.d jtn dbphy.rrr ttdl ba ac..d flft .n (t, Dcrr.lr of l\ :_r I- :rb to..l .I.r ot dr buildtr r.I ur6 rri.t r!. tr &r;ooo.ad. IF .l i-..- -.'-+"'''' .- ---JJ.r!,
$
,,.
:!i
'7
I
i_.:ac
-|*
I
:
:
)
)
r fonh in Chaprcr 4, of
ray bc &nend.d, arc
.'t ro th. Star.'s Ehr-
Ell tc
"nacrgrounit.)ermitt d an,I*hcrc that'' -.8ularfu ns appticabt.
rpprov.d Dcv.loprncnt Plart ard by dividins thc numbd of
buildints .onstruclcd in a nonrcsid.nrial proj.ct by rhc iorrl
numbc of building sit.s in $. approv.d D.v.loprnmr Plar.
13, T.rnpoEry tEal c$at. siSns which advcnis. rhc saL, rcnral or tcal.
of r.al lstat subicc ro thc folo*i.g spccifications:A. On r.mi!. r.al.stac SErs dv.niling lh. saL, rcnrd or ka!.
of thc prdnis.s upon whid rhc siSn is locrrcd.l) OrE noniUuminat d Sgn is pcrmi .d t'cr nr€a fronhSc.
2) SiSn display ar.a shal nor .iccld twdv. (t2) jquate f.!r
p.r si8tr on proplny containing lcss thm l0 acrcs in ar.a.
and $iny-rwo (12) squarc f..r pcf sign on pro[J6ly con-
ntr bc locat d lcss than rcn (10) f.cr f.om any pr
linc.4) All tcmporary rcal.strt sitns sh.I bc rEnov.d
scv.n (, &F followint saL, lcas., o. r.nral of
9-8J Cround Low Profilc Busin.ss SignJ. OrE grourd bw rofilc busincsr
sigl shdl bc permin d p6 strca fronrzt., widr . maridl,In of two (2)
such skns Fr lor. Sudt sigrr shal nor dcccd .ighty (m) ,quar. fc.r
B. Ofr-prEmisc llai 6tat. signs sdvcnising rhc eL, Enrat or
of Busincss and lndustri.l buildin8s:
h sign display aIla na b. grcar.r rhan cighr (E) fcd in hciShl. Sudt
rigns rhal bc lo€rld ar Las r.n (tO) fcct from any prof,crty tir..WaI Buriruss Si8rls. OI! yrU bEdn.ss sign stlal bc p.fiDiltcd F srcd
frortagc for cad busincss ocf,uprnr liilhin a building. Thc roaal of,Ilwa[ moonGd sign display atE! shrtl nor.rcccd fift cu (lJ) pccctrr of
kEror strc.t so d6ittt rld in Aniclc Vl, S.caion 25. Sudr nSrs shal
bc locat.d so as not lo conflid with u-rffic visibility or nrccrrainiq l0 or morc acr6.
3) No srch sisn shall cxc..d l.n (10) fcet in ov.r.ll h€i8ht
mfiLnfi.. o!.rarioos, ard shal bc lcorEly 8roulrd.SECTION t. INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PA.RK DISTRICTS
Thc folowinS dsrE shal bc alow.d by FInn in any IOp Di5lricr
9-E-2
Chanhassen Zoning Ordinance page El€ven
No individu.l businBt risn lhill .xc..d .ilhry (e)) squ.E fcli ir siar
display ar... A wall bulincs sito mry b. mouri.d upm anv *rl-of
a princip3l buildinr.
9-7-4 Dcvdoprnat Idardficadon S8n5. OrE div.loprxnr id!trtifi.adon d8n,
noa dccrdinS si y-fotE (64) iquit! f.ra of si8n di$lay rrta, shall bcpcrmi ed for cach major artr.n ! inlo any omrDcci.t dciclopm.ar
of thr.. (3) or morE buildin8r. For rhc purDo..r of thL ..dion,'..ma-
j or cntranc." shall bc dcfm.d as rhc iflr.rsccrion of any bc.t or coll6-t( str.ct scrvinS dl. id.Drifr.d d.r,cloprncni with any ancrial or col_
th. total .r.! of dlc buildirs y.[ upon whidr OE siStrt aI. mounacd.
No indivitu.l buincss si8n ClaI .rc..d ci8hty (80) squilt fc.t in sign
display a.... A wall busi.clr silD o.y tE mouoad upo uy vaU ofr pdrcip.l building.
9-8-3 Dcvdopm.nr Iddfificsrioo litllr. OE d6/dopm.aa i!.otificatioo d3D,
mt dcc€diry nincty (9O) squaE fc.t of siln di.pl.y !r! . sh.I be pcr-
Dill.d for .a.h Dajo. dr!".nc. inlo rny tndu3ri.l Ofncc part of drl!!
(3) or molc pri*ip.l buildinSs. For ih. purpos.. of riii s.6ion, .,tn!,
jor cstrancc" sh.ll bc &fincd as lhc inrElccriotr of rry loc.l, cokc_
tor or an.rial 3EEa s.rvina Ihc idcntifi.d dcvdoF.nt *ith .[y.n li.l
o. collccror srcd so d.sian{ld in thii Ordir.nce. Suc.h ig shalt bc
I@r.d so as rlot ro coiftcr *ith rrffic vilibiliry or ldcd Brintaenc!
opcrrtions, and shal bc s.cuEly archorcd to th. lroud.
ivl+-.
hin.d and t4,t h atlt !r. mtt d. unsaf.,
air.d or r!pla..d by Orc
r whidr rh. sign nmdi
om 3ny buildinS un-._..ar approv€d by lhc
acd€d. plrccd or main-
enh any .lelric lighr,
imilar d.viccs whicha p.rmit. Th. pcrnit
3yr. Nomtr rhaa thltc
: t koD b.iu dirEa.d_ rirs th. visioa of rh.rrrr! an official Eaffic
r arE visibl. from public
ficicnt movcm€nt of
!l shsl conrain words
sudr ar "Srop", ..Cau-
, '^ dt.d raffic on rhc
: ay not bc illumirur.d- all rcquir. a pcrmit.
qrru.curivc d.ays. No
-inl.d durira any crlm-
linc rhan a disrancc' aback. No sitl sldl
.idq 6 stict.r numb6
l) OlE rcnilluminaEd off-prcnisc siSn shdl b.pd buildinS.
2) such sitnr shall ooly tE p.mirt.d ir businBs and I
du$rial districts and on prop.ny locar.d eith rhc
hin.d that prcvcnB
frE .scapc. No sign
ed so that thc fac.s arc
,!rna O. tac6 cxceeding
1 id.s addcd lo8crhcr
a for rhar districr.
t_c posirion.d so that
ri srriclr alons adjoining
. lubdivisioo or dcvclopmcm a. rh. buildiry bcint
.dv€niscd.
!) Such sitns shau nor b. kcaEd dos.r ah.n rwo hundEd
(2(tr) fca from any othE such sign toc4cd on thc sr,tlr
sid. of thc src.t.
4) Sign Display Ar.a dl,I Doi acccd 6iriy-.wo (32) squzrr
fcd, and &c hcigha of sudl siSns shdl not qc..d fifrcrn
(15) fc...
5) such signs shdl bc rcmov.d wiahia sd.o (I) days follow-
iry lhc I.a!. n salc of €ishry pcrclat (&)t ) of th. buitdinr
Iloor spac! shich it is advcdisin8, or wirhin twctvc (I2)
mondE frcm $. dat a pcrmiln ire.d, whichcvd com.s
tirsr.
C. Otf-Prlglirc dir.dional ii8trs which show dir€crion ro rEw
csil.rtial d€vcloEn.nts:
INTEIIT. To allow shon t rm signaS!, fo. rrsiddlrid d.rrlolF
mcnt, to farniliariz. thc public wirh rh. n.w dcv.lopm6t.l) Such siSD sbal onty b. lcrmitt€d a]ory najor an riab and
coll.croB ar idarrificd in rh. Comprchmsiyc pt.n.
2) Only on! sitn p.r inl€Ecdion and on. sign pcr dcv.top-
m€fi lhall b€ pcrmitr.d.
3) Sigr displry slca shal not cxc!€d twary-four (24) squaE
f.tt ard rh. h€igr of sudr sienr shall not €xcc€d a.n (10)
f.!t.
4) Such sign shal not bc locat d dos.r ahan lw.nty-fivc (25)
fca frcm any nr.a righr{f-way linc ard shaU bc firmty
aichored ro rh. sound.5) Such sign shal only bc consnucr€d out of wood maErials
and t!. non-iuuminard.
6) Such sisn shall be removcd six (6) monrhs afrcr lh. sirr
har bcgl .recrcd and d€vclop.r may dor appty for a scc-
ond offrr.miss dircd'onal sitn Fmir.7) Sit[ copy shall includ! th. nam€ of erbdivision .nd a
dircction arrow only-
Prohibhcd Signs. Thc folloeing siSns all prohibiLdl
l AdvcrtisinE Signs.2. AdvcnisinS or buiincss sig otl or atrrch€d lo cquipm€nt such as
sdni-truck trailers whcrc signint is a principd us. of rhc equiF
mmr on eirhcr a Gmporary or pcrmancnt basi!.3. Mdioo 5gn5 and Fl6hiry SigrB, dccpr tim. and EmFr.tur. sign!
aIId barbd r,ot6.
SECTION 9. CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTR,ICT
Thc folbwinS sifns $all be alow.d by pcrn|n b tb. B-3 Dfurrici:9-9.l Wa{ Busincss Sign. Olt *a[ buin s iS! shdl b. ldEidcd pcr 3r!a
frontag. for cad bu3incs. occupanr wi6io . building. Thc tot'l of atl
eratl mqrntcd dtl display .r!a $.ll mt tr.!.d fftc![ (It Dqc.a. of
thc total ar.a of th. buildi"s y.U updl yhidr tbc srSFs arc aou,lt€d_
No individu.l buin.3s siga $all.rc!.d drty-fo{r (6a) 6qu{. fc.t in
sign disphy arEa. Thc dcsitn snd locari[ of aI busia.s sig!. in thi!
di{dcr shrl bc in tcpirS widr thc F,rpc..Dd io!.nt of thb Odinac
and thc goah ard obj.ctiv6 of tE Do*niotxtr R.dddopocaa plan
of thc Ciry. Ccnrral Busin.s6 Distrid .i8aaS. stlrl bc uniforofy d6iarcd
to tc an inrcgral pan of rhc buildin!'s ard rcdur! to avoit cxccssiyc
siSnag€ and to cn5urc a hamonious appcaa[cc thm[thour tha
Dof,,ntowo arca.
9-9-2 gtrin€ss Dir.crory Si8n. OlE Busin.ss Dirrcrory SiaII dlal bc p6mit-
t d p.r shoppiq ccrtcr. Th€ d.siS, and location of sud sign shdl bc
consisrcnr whh thc d6ign obi€ctiv.s for wall buin6s Sgrs in $it
disrricr. Thc maimum h.iah fo. sud sisLr shal bc twcnry (20) fcd
and lhc lotal sign display rrca sh.I not .rcc.d cighay (80) squrr. f€.L9-9-3 Pldor Busin.si Sigtr. Olr pylor busin.s. itn, ro(.rc..dint sirty-four
(64) squaE fea in sigr diiplay aEa, rhal bc pcrmitl6d p6 lot. Sud
sitrll shall bc lo.at d .! Lalr lcn (t0) fccr from atry Fopcrty titrc, ,rd
sh.ll no( clc!.d tscory (2O fca h h.i8tt.
SECTION IO. BONUS STCN AREA
To cncou.asc d.sign ac.ll.nc., lh. ,[.rinum stn arc.i for c.nrin budtr6s..,
induiuial. arid dir€c1ory sigtls m.y b. incr..s.d ry to a merious of t a (10)
p.rccrt bas.d on lh. oriSinal siSn ar.a linlilador.
9-10.1 Groud Profilc, fr.. srending rnd wall siSo! may bc incrtat.d .r
follows:
building ofirchl rnay 0.116 th. (lmord of .ny dgn ttr.a b @t mehr.in.d in
aacordaoc. wirh thc maintarmcc provisioo!,pt thb Odir.rc..
SECTION 12- PERMIT. APPLICATION, V]\RIANCE AND CITY
COUNCIL APPROVAL '
e-12"1 Erepr s p6vid.d in S6don 93-t. no sisn ff iis! srruciurc shal b€<cr.d. connrucicd. strcrcd, r.buitt or rcbcar.rl urit. p.rmir has frnben i$u.d by thc Ciry.
9-12-2 SiBn ApplicarioD- Thc foltowins irformadon for a jan p..mir shslb. supplicd ty an applicur if r.qucn.d by $c Ciry:l. .tlwnci addrcir and tctcphonc numb.r of pct.on matins' applicarion.
2. A sirc plan ro s.aL $owin8 lhc to.ation of lor lio.s, building iruc-tur6, parkinS .r.as, casrirg and pmpos.d sigs .nd :ny oth.r
physical fcaturcs.
3. Plalls, locadon and sp.cific.tioff rrd m.rhod of .ontlIu.rion !d
.ttachtn.nt to tlE buillin8s or pl.cdc mcrbod h 6c arcurd.4. CoDy of $r.$ shcat aod alcu|llioN-t. wrilt.n corudrt of th. olrrE 6 lcircc of .a, nt. o rhkh th.
iitrl ir ro ba €rcctcd.5. Ary dccticd FEn llquirld ri i$d for ttc it!.
7. Sudr dh.r irfom.tion .. 1hc Gty rh.! rqri. .o rl|o, fun cod-
Dli.ne vilh itb .!d .I otl . br! id o.d!.ac.. of ih. CiO.$l2-3 TrE Ci.y Phua upoo 6! 6I!a 6a.., qDr ior f.t I pqEn dtlls!ri: lxi C..r, tlEcilb.to.d oat6 dE- It lb Dro?o.d -t!
-,. acCi.. rlt .il.i da.tbta. aahErab iFA6 i{
: sisn idenrfyins lhe
buildinr, acccssoryr (rs shall tc ar lcas(
. 6r.r.d or placcd upon
' ^. ploj.d ovs public 9-3-2
r id. of aI 3i8rls shal
rtfy. broPn, or whiic,
rgn dEtncd or p&rr.d
, rd.d in a uniform3 .n of &c buildin!'.dEirl buildirsr ittll
l.:N:;- I rlldrr FEiri. ,i!3 2t ,qu,t fc.r..'llE$orsibk lDr rudl
. in r6oid. Such sisls. att).h!r b Er ota-' tl-- qo- ..n'
.t i:'
r*a-ra
ab.h
iai. ,i.
'bFra-.!I-ta. i rr.l-r--rr.
-(h,b-_ !!-! lr-.
B. No ponion of roof siSnt sh.[ cxtlnd bcyond $c Fiph.ry.. or dE roof.6. &dl'6 raaE ehi.h .dvai- & Biwityr buar<r p.odu6 s !ar-vir rb lo,a6 produ...t c @!ducr.d d !h. pl6is upn whi.tr
lhc ian i5 ldr.a- wrEG dr. dc d bsr oa rhc prcnis is,..iia. nF t@r. {.i r.ar.m.y.d!n ir pt.e for tror mor.
rtr^n lhirrr (It drlr idd th. &!. ot ti.:ncv.
?. *d GnctE'
t. p6r.nr \{- d(.r,r s rErm,[..t in Sc:hon 9-2,10 of Gisod'-d'
?- !!- I!l--T_*.. or a.6. r.nc€s or urjliry poles.lO la.c d!l5. trB Glr to. oni-.' - *d ,..,,,,
";.;:";;'il11':riclrron
stn tlEsitn
aaa"l"rl a r{ry rt\lor\I\r I (t -t!-rb---- , .-" ..._.,,: ",-...--.-. ...,, -..; .,1:*:._l'*nr(trm,m urd6 rl|. chanha5s.r.rd !r . r-!{ ..-, , . ., _ ___ '"' tt c,'niuncrron wrdr rhar hnd,
-. .,...; "...,-:.:':' 1" -,hnr,anc. wirh rhc srgn provi-
I :
:i,_":,r."; ;r.: i*r t*ih.:iffi liH,,#r J"''
rj:[xi:l:lll],1j,,i,ir; lL?r5"ff :T,l,:;I.t ffiiE rrtrnrrld on ih. !rr!mi!.! of .n, Frblc a idEtioo.t FoFry,llr!. rh. 6E -, 6 r.re d :;.- - - -
, *,,
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Shipping and
Receiving
Employee
Parking
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II I IIII I IIIIIII I
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
COI,II'IUN I TY OEVELOPHEIIT OEPARTI.IEIIT
690 COULTER ORIVE
cHANHASSEN, t't 5 5317(512) 937- 1900
Si te
ddres s /.+rza
Permi t o.
Date
Perni t Fee
Res. Com. Ind. Publ ic
New Eristin
Subdiv i sion
Lot Bl ock
N 1_ Sl_
L:
I hereby acknowledge that I have read this
app'lication and state that the infonnation 'is
correct and agree to comply xith the Chanhassen,
MN ordinances and the State of I'linnesota laws
r€gulatin9 bui I di ng construction.
Si gnature
Pemi ttee
CALL FOR FOOTIN6 & COMPLETION
HEI ;l! ALTERATION
-
REPAIR_ ADDITION- OTHER-
I l -llounted- Free-standi ng rZ: Other (specify)Permanent
=-Temporary
spect f i c usef / Zttz*:t o a')'a 4'
Type of Construction:
(lilateri al Used) Fram pp
COLOR SCHEI'4E
ORDINANCE SECTION
Use: Perflitted
-
Setback; Front
Conditional S ide
l{on-Confor ing _ Rear
ALL APPLICATTONS FOR A SIGN PERT.{IT I4UST BE ACCOI.IPAIIIEO 8Y T\^/O COPIEs OF FULLY DIMENSIONEO PL'
ORAI,III TO SCALE SIIOIIIIIG THE PROPOSED LOCATION OF THE SIGN OII THE SITE. ELEVATIONAL ORAU II{GS OF THI
SIGI{, ANO STRUCTURAL OIAGRAHS OF SUPPORTS, FRAI{E, FACE, ANP ELECTRICAL SERVICE.
Do Not l./ri t e ln lnr 5 5pace
PERI'IIT ISSUED
TO:
0!{EX ii N THAT ALL KS E DONE IN ACC T 0
OF CI{AIIHASSEI{ AIIO THE LAI{S OF THE STATE OF I{INI{ESOTA. THIS PERT4IT IS VOID IF XORK IS IIOT CO}fl€TI(
UITHTI{ 90 OAYS OR AEANOONED FOR 90 DAYS.
ame
Address
it Tel . No.
L'C
ame
Tel . No
Address
cit
9n
__>t/ttl
rec !0 r ne 0
5i gn _l,/al uation
V.t2t'f-; .t
Lst. comoletion,Date,,/r/*t
llluminated- Non-ll lu,ninated
--
,//2"''Kind of Construction .r!, /..irfl
FEETr3
I-
x_
x
SQ. FEET ETEVATIONS AREA/Z- wwx _
_ sourH _
_ EAST
IEST
FEET
eight
q
Ft. t{ei ght Lbs
BY CIAIIHASSEI{ BUILOIIIG I ZONING OFFICIAL
IAPpL I cAT ron t ;t ptnnlrl
\
I
Zoning 0'istrict
Section
IORDING OII S IC:i:
INSPECTIOi{S-
PHoNE 937-1900
Thc vDlrlion oi.ny *ntt.n condidon sh.ll conriurc . rlolariotl
of th i5 O rdinanrc- A varienc. dr.I b.co.n. voa yi6h onc ( I ) yc.r
folb*ing Lssu.nc. unls! rirbruaurl .crior tl.s b.!n r.tar b; lh.
Pcrillon(l in rclanc. thcaaor.2. .{ variam. ln.y bc 8r'int€d by Oc Board onty if it find, aI &.folloeinS:
A. Thar rh. tircrrl cnforEtrtld[ of rtc Ordir.E ,ortd cau!. ur-du. hadship .nd pracrcat drfficutrv.B. Thar lh. hrdrhip b c.u!.d by sp.drt condjrionr .rd cir-cunll.nc6 whid .It p.cdia lo 0. tard &d strudur! invotvcd.id ehidr r,t nor ch.t-.crlrttic of o..!dic.bt io dlFr landror srrucrur6 in th. 5n. diatrid.C. Thar ah.8ranrint of th. vari.nc. i, nccr.sary for rhc pr!s.rv.-
^ !l)Il Td .nroyrtrc of subs[ndrl propcny dSnB.u. I llat th. stlacid condiooE ind orcuElstlc., r! not a coolc-quacc of . rclf{ft.t d h.rdihi6_E. Thrt thr y.rhnc. will not b. nj;riour to c .dv.r!dy .rlcctr!. hc.Ilh, s.fay o. t,.tf& of ttE llsid.rB of !b. Cit; or 6c
fthborhood wh.Ein lhc propsty i. iturEd .d ,iI b. i!
- raa?[u wto llr. spiri and inr.nt of thc ordiDaDcc.a l1IT.. t9. +: ".poatv us. of r firl.\f.D y dwdlin! .5 .lro-redy d*ltlir8 6ry otrt b. rllo.cd urdc rbc tollirin3
^. I!..". : q1lr"rtld D..d b.r.d upoo dir.bitiry, ,rc orrDraod hrd.hb.B. I!,l'wdI'C Bs dlc aErior .pec.r.E oa r ird..f.a yow.uiq, r[chdirt rh. D.lrla&c! of oe d.itwt .ad otEnnio crry.
i.
f
SECT N
l-5-l
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orab
ot In(
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3-J.5 koid
Dav(I.'i'
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ilIr
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dDt. brik
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l-: Erc.pr,.pr+.
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ar h.
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C. ScA.r.E utitiiy s.rrts ttt Dr 6obli$.d (..!. !r.t rarr,!d.r, ctc.)D. Th. y.ri.n ! wil nor b. iniuriou3 !o 6.dE$.t, .rT.cr th.h.rl6, lafcry or wclfar€ of rh. r..idc rs of ttr.Cirt; ;;
'riShbctr@d
ylE! rhc ,rcpqty b jtu.r.d lad ri bah ;nt iiln th. spni ard iDrcar of lhir Odis.rce1l{ Procldur6-
l. Form. ArDGab. rrd .pplic.rions fo. y.ri&c.5 3tru b. 6lcd wih rlcz.rl[! A(tElnr.lrlror cl pr.lcflb.d fom!. A f.., .. F,Uiq.d byIn€ L[y (-oonc,l, llull b. Fit upoE thc fitiD' of & rlDtirtioa.
.,,,! f*T.."y :.i,9rtE pptic.rDn fc. in unurud cl;;!mccs,,. d..nat. upoD th. filirg of., ,pp..t or lpDlic.rtoa tor vrrirpth. Z-ninr AtuiDisrr.ra o.n ri r rt c iil pru-;. -h;t
bcto(. U. Dord of Adiulnrldrt! .nd App..! o $ch .r"-t;.pp[arpn. shicrt h.ariu $.x b. hdd *;dh diny OO f;-rf;.r!.-rury or s.rd app..l or rrpticadoo. Ar th. h...iDr U; Adrd$tr nar srcb p.r3on! I etrh to b. b..rd. cirhc iE o.rro" _ f,.nomc, or at ot. Noric. of $ch b..rin! .t I bG dkd bt ,-iftaa rar 00)daF b€foE dE a"tc.t t -riig o rf* pc."mi ffrrb. app..t or applicedoa ronariancc, an-a, in Ul casc-oi l" -i
plicariin fo. vad.nc., ro cao o.ncr or propcri-ril.J'*-r,aT
or Fni.ly withu fivc huodEd (rm) fcd of rt. pro;;;;-il;.t varianc. applicetio,r r.t"tc. n aalnts J -Jd&;i;r-;
o*Ers sh.lt bc dalrniD.d by d,. Z.oillr Ad._&-;;;rccor* pmvd.d by rlE aDDtic L3. Dcisiolr of rh. Boird. fi,i AerU
"trett Uc oporald !o dccid.rprE b .Dd 8r.nt vadtuc.! onty phar dE d;;; .i1d il:i! by r ur,aoir[ou5 vor!.
A Smplc lnzjoriry vot a sptir vor. t, lhc a6rd iMI t w. otv- er r rcclmm.rdarion ro drc Ciry Councit. *rro Oal oca iric rrifmd dcr.nhhadon on &. .ppcal or rro.nc. tt(u..r ?i[jn ;ir;
. ffii**ffix1+. mix,.m.ro;*,tli.t d by .ry deioori of rh. Bo.fll, iDdudinr dt r-,rl", - "T_Flor olrdtrg prop.ny oI ,-d.r .irhi" fi;. h";;;-d6; i;of.h..propcny !o ehi.h a v.n.ncc appti..rioo rchr.., .;i ;;r;ruch d.ririon ro lhc Ci(y Coorrl by flint an zppcrt wirt itc./i_itraAdmin'll,.ror rilhin ra rtoraeyr rrr:.' rllc'a:ac"r t ili,dcctioo. TtE Foc.dorE lov.mrnt appab !o th. Bo.rd shrll .t olovcm app.3lj !o rlE Ciry Couocil.t 9I.919:. By.ma-joriry von, th. Cry couail day t!y.n ..!n E o. modjry, whony o, p.ruy. rtc a.os- r"ocera-r."Jij!olE, end io ltr.r md rhc. v C.uacil.ti.I hr;; .l ,t. -**ot 0E Ao.d. Th. Councn shtl-idryr arr.r rh. d.E o, rhc -,Jlf-il'ro"t"
*'tt'i" rt liv (J01
c. oii.r. voi.*iii ;'o-H #fril1"ffJ. c*,.,r..,a.udr dcli.] dull coisnuE a fidr
ditioru Equrcd to.
"pp-,"r aoq**Joi'rn'harbn thar th"or-
7. A.tiotr Wilhoul Dclsloo. r nod
ro rr.ciry couc uiuh "*,:6:l;L*-,i:1i:#ffIp.at or vin.nc. r.qu6r i! fil.d Dnn ft! Zon,ns Adm;4,;;;il.
Counc may tet. acrim on $. r.qirJr, h &@dlne ;;; ;.j
ccdures sov.mmS rh. 8o.rd. *drour funtrcr ar1113 66 [o.-j,,dcci.bo.
SECTION 2. CONDTTIONAL USE PERMTTSl'2-l Pu!Da.. Cddruoll.t u!6 mclud. lhor. rE . ehich ,! rDr usr.Ily.[ow-d wifih dr 2onina disr.i€1, bu enidr mry und6 s6. .";;;;b._rrubt . Th. .ppuc.nr $.U h:r. Oc bordc, of Eoof;;;;;
I r r ::::oDf ad rhi! th! s.od.r6 ld ronh E' thB s.di- r,.* *o,.i.-az ApDic.ron. plbtk H..nna, Nooc. md noc.o..- rt r"r_"iiFrttla h..rur. DuDr. .ou.. d pr! duE,quloaB r-ffi liu!. 9.tui8 th.[ b.lh. rr... ttr6. to] rltr6dm6B - D."nd.d ;AnicL ll1. S.crid 3 .rc.F $lr rtE ,.rEi dr.ll b. i.srjo|, ,h;:,lr.dt! vo.. d . Erir , "r r. -u.. c",.-r. iiiot.i'jl_i.
- -.--..{!.? :::r{.b-.6Ca. - .prE i.r rc r oo,-ufrii
SECTION 3. TEXT AMENDMENTS AND ZONINO DBTRICT
CHANCES
Aorhoriay. Th. CouEil E y iioE tioc b tiin. by . four-fifd|t (4/r)vo.. of dr 6tnE Coun i &p. &rciear b rhfbrdi*c;a;;
rhc zonia3 mrIr.
l. Pmcc.dinF lo amad lhn friue !h.X ooly b. iririlrd b, tt
3_T._1 ,t Pt&nils Commi..br a . p.rtti"o "r U. eroi.ni
i,
(
ti
2- t;
2. A! appticztion for ra .ecdrnar.trl bc fl.d rih 6c Ciay. pai-
tiotrs try prq.ny orn.t! rquc.liq arrqr b r ais;o bo'unaanrna! Dc Eo6p.ni({ by r nnp c pt.r rhowirg rhc tradr progcj. b tE dllnrcd rd .[ Ld rrlnio 6rr hrdrd (jlD) fca of ihc Ll!-dffi6 of ln. proFry Eoeor.a t-
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December 3, 1987
THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN
Planning Conrnission
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55417
I
Dear Connission Members :
This letter accompanies our attached request to install four non-illuminatedorrectronat signs at Dataserv-10911 Lake Drive East. The directionals oerour drawing are 3,x 4,and sit on a poured concrete Uaie.
These signs_duplicate th.e directionals we provided for Dataserv in Eden prairie.
Jl:,9::ig, is one they feel is aesthetic with tne s.ize propoitionit.-in..-latronshrp to the site size. It is also felt the desigir aird size creates easeof legibility for visitors as weil as shipping ana reciiving;.[i.i;;:*
l'le appreciate your consideration of our request. If addit.ional information isrequired prior to the meeting, please call 'me.
Si ncerely,
NORDQUIST SIGN COMPANY,, INC.
Steve Hi rtz
SH/ctt
Encl osure
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55408
ESTABLISHED 19O4
(612) 823-7291312 WEST LAKE STREET
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LAND DEVELOPIIENT APPf,ISATIOII
CITT OF CEANEASSEI
690 Coulter Drive
Cha.uhassea, MN 55312(612) 937-1900
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OWNER:tutJAPPLICb/zft-c
ADDRESS :<I),/-sor-.
TELEPHONE
REQT]EST:
(Daytime )fr<-Zip Code
7;v7/
ADDRESS
TELEPHONE
55r:
ZL p co&
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PIanneC Unit DeveLopr"ent
_ Sketch Plan
_ Preliminary plan
Final Plan
subdivi sion
_ Platting
Metes and Bounds
Street,/Easement Vacation
Wetlands Permit
PROJECT NAME
PR.ESENT I,AND USE
REQUESTED LAND US
PRESENT ZONING
PLAN DESIGNATION
E PI,AN DESIGNATION
REQUESTED ZONING
(USES PROPOSED
X srzE oF PRoPERTY
X LoCArroN :-7zc=
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X REASONS FOR THIS REOUEST
REC=i,'=D
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CITY (tr t:xaruxlrsrrrt
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Zuzs. ,//^t .;>/6-
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
5rt+)uorrir3g Variance
Zor:ing Text Anendment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use Permit
Site Plan Review
X. LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach J.egal if necessary)
C j.ty of Chanhassen
,":;: ?"""'"Pment APprication
This application must be completed in fult an.t hoclearly'p;i;a;;""; must be ;".;;;";;.;,.ri :li Hr:IH:5::.:;u",
i: ti::.if, ,:":ir!I::!ii* fi=^ i,il,f :iH:",,i#i;::H: "ffh;:.
appricauil"i"l;;'il;ii:":l:i:"'ce and procedural'ueoi'"i"nt"
FTr rNG rNS TRUCT IONS :
FTLI N r: rrF RTTFT qATION:
I
The undersiiyned representat-ive oflh"!. h". is familiai "iti,-irr"'p.Iiapplicable Ci ty /Ordinances .
7lururlr,rr_ EirJ
_
the applicant hereby certifieseclural reguirements of a1l ----
The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicanr has been:::::li:;: ro make tr,i" ippii.u-Ii""-i"i.,.he property herei::
A signea ay
Date Application
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
App t t c an)//
F ee Owner
Date //
Date
l\NJ qF ??-Fjq*fu€. a,-*t:zt-. 2rc*_l H-2o
Rece i ved
Paid $),
This Application wilIBoard of Ad j ustmen tsmeeLing.
b onsideredppeais at by thetheir Planning Commi ss i on,/
'.' e** e rz-e,r#.r.c.i&r!2l.:'r,
an
ecdA
X sisned By
P.C. DATE: Jan. 6, 1988
C.C. DATE: Jan. 25, 1988
CASE NO: 87-19 CUP
Prepared by: OIsen,,/v
STAFF REPORT
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LOCATION:
APPLICANT :
Permit to Expand the Public Works
15 9l Park Road
Conditional Use
Bui 1d i ng
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
PRESENT
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT
AND LAND
ZONING :IOP, Industrial Office Park
5.35 acres
ZONING
USE:N-
s-
E-
$t-
IOP ,
IOP ,
IOP,
IOP ,
PMT Corporation
vacant
Empak Building
vacant
WATER AND SEWER:Available to property.
The
on
site is fairly leve1 withthe western portion of the
r"rooded areas
sit.e.
1990 LAND USE PLAN:Industrial
CITY OF
EHINHASSEI[
PROPOSAL:
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
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Public Works Conditional Use Permit
January 6, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
BACKGROUND
Section 5-16-4 of the Zoning Ordinance aIlows publicas a conditional use in the IOp District (Attaahment
Section 5-16-5 of the Zoning Ordinance requirescoverage of 70t and a front yard seEback of 30selback of I0 feet and a side yard setback of IDistrict (Attachments #1) .
buildings#r).
a maximum lotfeet, a rear yard
0 feet in the IOP
In t,he spring of 1987, the City j.nitiated the study of expandingthe Public Works Building t.o extend the existing office work areaand to enlarge the garage area (Attachment *2). The funding fort,his expansion will be coming from the City's building fund (afund consisting of monies placed aside for expansion over thelast several years ) .
On August 17, 1987, the City Council authorized preparation ofplans and specifi.cations for the exDansion to the public WorksBuilding (Attachment #3).
ANALYS I S
The proposed expansion of the public Works Building would belocaled to the west of Lhe existing office and garige space. Theaddition will consist of approximately 2,000 square-feeL of officespace and approximately 6,000 square feet of additional Earagearea. The total impervious surface area of t.he site includingparking and the additional building area will be 19.25S. Thenumber of parking spaces required j,s 16 and the site pl,an is pro-viding -for 27 spaces. The existing building is 27 feet.high andthe addition will be 20 feet which is within the 50 foot heightrestriction of the IOp District. The buildinq will match theexisting st.ructure and wiIl preserve the exisiing wooded areas tothe west of the builiing. The Engineerr s Office has h'orked clo-sely with the consultant on this project. A11 engineering con-cerns have been addressed on the site p1an.
The Zoning Ordinance requires a conditional use permit for publicbuildings in the IOP District. There are no specific conditionsfor public buildings, but. the proposal is in conformance with thegeneral conditions of a conditional use permit, Article III,Sectioo 2.
RECOMMEND AT I ON
The
the
proposed addition to the public Works Building meets all ofrequirements of the IOp District. planning staff recommends
Public Works Conditional Use Permit
January 5, 1988
Page 3
the Planning Conmission adopt the following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Conditional UsePermit *87-19 to expand Ehe existing public works facility as
shown on the site plan stamped "Received December 15, 1987.r1
ATTACHMENTS
Zoning Ordinance Section 5-L6-4/5.
llemo to City Council from Don Ashworth dated August L7, 1987.
city council minutes dated August 17, 1987.
Application.Site plan dated December 15, 1987.
1
2
3
4
5
1
2
Parking lots and ramps
SignsRetail sales of products storedsite provided no more than 2oZused for retail sales
or rnanufactured on theof the fJ,oor space is
5-L6-4 The following are conditionaL uses in an ,,IOp,, district:
x.
5-15-5
1.
2.
3.
6.
7.
8.
o
L0.
11.t2.
Concrete nixing plants
Communication transmission towersPublic buildingsUotor freight terrninalsoutdoor health and recreation clubsScreened outdoor storage
Research laboratoriescontracting yards
Lumber yards
Home irnprovenent tradesHotels and motels
Food processing
Lot Requirements and Setbacks. The following rninirnunrequirenents sha1I be observed in an ,,IOp,, oisiii-i-sutl ectto. additional requ j_rements, exceptions and rnodificationSset forth in this ordinance.
1. Minirnun Lot Area: one acre.
2. Mini:num Lot Frontage: 150 feet (except lots fronting ona cuI-de-sac shall have a minirnurn 60 foot trontageJ-] -"
3. Mininum Lot Depth: 2OO feet.
4 . Max j.mum Iot coverage: 7 Oe. .
5. Setbacks. Off-street parking areas sha11 cornply withall yard reguirernents of thii Section, except that norear yard parking setback shaLl be required^ f"r iots-directly abutting railroad trackaqei ind, no siae-VirashalL be required when adjoining 6onruercial usesestablish joint off-street parking faciliti.=, i=provided in Section. T-l-7, except -that ,ro pu.iirrq .r"u=sha1l be permitted in any requiied side stieet =ia"----yard. Miniurun rear yard shall be 50 feet for Lotsdirectly -abutting any Residential District. side streetside yards shall be I rnininurn of 25 feet in alldi.stri.cts.
A. Front yard: 30 feet.
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690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Mayor and City Council
Don Ashworth, City Manager
August L7, 1987
OF
EHINHISSEN
MEMORANDUM
?o:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ: Public Works Facility
On June 29, L987, the City Council directed staff and EOS
Corporation to revise the proposed addition to the Public Worksfacility to include extenaiing the existing office/work area to
coincide with the construction limits of the high bay portion ofthe building. Attached please find the amended plan. Mr.
Ruehlrs report is concrse and will not be repeated here.
Fund i ng
I had anticipated completing a funding analysis by the time EOS
had completed tshe revised building plans. I have not. We are
approximately 50t through the budgecary process for 1988 and
anticipate presenting a combined capiEal improvement program
together with the operating budget during the next few weeks.
Although a specific analysis is not oeing included at this time,
this office would recommend that we move forward with preparation
of plans and specifications for the Pub1ic Works facility. I am
confident that funding is in place. Specifically, we saw an
approximate 10t increase in valuation this past year, have
received. notification of an approximate I5* increase in valuation
as of January 1, and construction in progress rvill add another
15t to the 1989 property tax ro11s. During this same t.ime frame,
debt has remained relatively stabl-e. Currently, staff is not
considering recommending any increases in overaLl debr. We
believe that the building additions (public works/city hall) can
be completed rrithin the operating budget. The potential addition
onto the fire station could create difficulty. The question issolely one of tshe scope of improvemenEs co be considered. TheCity Council will also be seeing working drawings for this faci-lity, as well as City HaII, trithin the next few weeks.
Recomrnendat ion
It is recorunended that the City Council authorize preparation
of plans and specifications for uhe expansion to the Public works
building as depicEed in Attachment B.
>t A"*l***1Uc.
CITY
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COFIPOFIATION
J. NICHOLAsi FIUEHL, AIA
BEFTTL E HAGLUNETI AIA
'10 August 1987
Mr. Gary Warren, CIty Engineer
City of Chanhassen
@O Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Mn 55317
RE: Public Works Facitity
Dear Mt. Warren:
Ittaghed is a summary of the work to date on the above-rererenced proiect- you may useit as it is, or, if you prefer, use the most pertinent information.
ll you have any questions, please call.
Sincerely,
J. Nicholas Huehl, AIA
Enclosure
JNR/m
ARCHITECTS . SPACE PLANNERS . INT ERIOR DESIGNERS
ilUU .L tl l:57
ciUoEcHennessE.r
684 EXCELSIOR BOULEVARO. SUITE ONE . EXCELSIO R, MINNESoTA 5s3ol . (6tz) 4t 4_g2g 1
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CORPOFIATION
t
ctw oF c HANHASSEN
Addition to Public Works Facitiry
Augusr t7 t 987
Backqround
Des iqn Rali le
ln April 1987 EOS Corporation, Architects, was retained to prepare a pretiminary design
and cost estlmate lor an additlon to the publlc Works Faclliiy.
The.addition was to be comprised ot increased space for the storage ol vehicles as well as
additional space for the employee locker room and lounge.
Several altemative designs and related costs were explored. Vehicle storage spaceranged from 6080 sq ft to 7600 sq ft. Additional employee lounge and wori space nngedh.om 660 sq ft to looo sq ft. The proiecr cosrs were esiimated t6 be 23O,OOO !o 275,00d,depending upon the altemative.
Due to perceived budget constraints, staff selected a conservative alternative (see
Aftachment A) and presented it to the City Council for discussion.
At the June 29th meeting, the Council recommended that the staff reconskJer by
expanding the program to include addilional work area.
The slaff subsequenlly worked with the architect to develop the plan presented in
Attachment B.
The current design calls ,or a vehicle storage addition of 6080 sq ft and additionalworkspace for the Park and utirities Depanments. The pran arso cafls for additionar rockerrooms and lounge space that will serve the needs of all public Works employees (both
male and female) well into lhe ,uture. The lounge wi be finished wirhin the scope ol thisproiect, however, the locker rooms wifl only have the rough plumbing installed ior finishing
at a lime there is pressing need. The total area added will be 9424 sq ft. -
Another consideration in the design is the planning for yet another addition ro the vehicle
storage area. Maxlmum cily growth will demand more equipment and thus space to
adequately store aM maintain vehicles.
The site plan (Attachment c) reflects possible future additions ,or both maintenance andvehicle storage.
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COFiPORATICNI
Budoet
The construction cost estimate for the 9424 sq ft addition is $332,s00 (see Anachment D).The-prolect budgel incruding architecturar fees (8yo) and construction contingency (5%) issr75'700. Approxrmarery $25,ooo of rhe construction cost can be offset uy r.i'irizini euuticWorks slaff for the soil conection work prior to construction.
The.constructlon costs appear to be comparable to other proiects of lhis type and the finalcosts will depend upon the bidding climate.
Schedule
with authorization to proceed with contract documents assumed to be August 17th, thelollowing schedule will be estabtished: .
Sile Plan Review Submission
Contract Documents completed
Bidding completed
Construction start
Buildlng enclosed
Subslantial completion
Final completion
August 3i, I9B7
September 21, 1987
October ts, 19Bz
October2t,1997
November 30, 1987
January 30, 1988
Spring, 1988
i
RTTRCHT'IENT R
BRSE B ID
.6900 s0. FT, RoDtTtoN
REI1OVE EXISTING YRLLS
RELOCRTE EXISTING GRBf,GE
DOOB RNO PRSS DOOB
CONVERT EXISTING LOUNGE
IO OFFICE
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EXISI IN6
OFFICE
AREA
NEY OFFICE
SPACE
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CITY OP CHANHASSEN
PUBLIC 'ITORKS GARAGE ADDITION
OBRYIT
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CITY OT CHANHASSEN
COST ESTIMATE TOR ADDITION TO PUBLIC WORKS GARAGE
DESIGN DEVELOPMENT ESTTMATE *I ( 9424 SQ. FT. ADDITION )
DE SC RIPTION UNTGenera I 227 40
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Excavation/ Backf i11/S IabFiIl, Compaction
Grading
Paving
Haul ing
Landscaping
Concrete
IlasonryStructural Steel
Jois ts / Deckl,lisc. lletals
Carpentry
Roofing fnsulationBlock InsulationSealants, VB, perimeter InsuL.Conc. SealerSkylights & curbs
Doors and WindowsPaint (exr. & int..), Ceiling & VCT
PI umbi ng
Heating/vent ing/ACSprinklerElectrical LightingElectrical Power
Sub- tota I
G.C. OH & P 0 8t
CONSTRUCTION COST
475
ARCHITECTS . SPACE PLANNERS . INTE RIOR DESIGNERS
684 EXCELSIOR BOULEVARO . SUITE oNE . EXCELSTOR, MTNNESOTA s5331 . (6 12)47 4-3291
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CORP(]RATION
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BEETIL E HAGLUNO, AIA
s 307800
s 24630
s 332430
") .) '{o
City Courcil |,teeEing - August L7 , :.:98:-
the roads be looked at, Big Horn as early as possible in the processif not right at the beginning, as soon ai can be determrnerj thaE thatroad is r:seable for construction traffic ard as a part of that, make
sure that Carver Beach Road can sustain tlE constluction traffic.
o
1
Jim Fenning: Right, I unlerstard that also.
Mayor Ham ilton moved, @urci rman Geving secorxled to approve the tree removalplan for shadowrnere subdivision consistent witlr the "iiff,. ,.co,o erdationwith the following conditions:
I. the applicant work with the DtilR Forester, Alan Olson, on al,l tleersnoval .t,I
tir
2.
3. The csnstruction traffic mlst not use Erontier ttail.
All votd in favor ard motion carried.
@urEi lman ceving moved, I4ayor Hamilton secorded to approve the final pIaE forthe Shadowmere Subdivision subj ect to the plan stam@ ,,Receiveci Auqusr 7,
I987n ard subj ect to the following conditions:
l. Execution of the develoFnent. contract ard subrnission of Ef,.e necessaryfinancial sureties.
OJtLot A will be dedicated to t}le city at no cost should Lhe City
Council fird that Carver Beach Road should be ex terried.
AII voted in favor ard motion carried.
COIICEPT APPROVAL, PUBLIC WORKS GARAGE D(PANSION, NICK RUEHL, EOS CORPOPATION.
l4ayor Hamilton: Didn't \re do this al-ready?
Don Asht^rorth: You gave staff the instruction thaE we should look ac .r ?-Jnthat did not include continuaEion of vrhat is Ehe wocd framed section o! i:-a
building and you instructed EOS and staff to look at squaring the unit. ofE :nci
thatrs really what he did in that process, we're goirg to be able to us.r r
portion of that for a [Ert repairs, that wiII be a lower roof secEion r-uE.
should again work very we.l.l for that tyIE of function.
Councilman Geving moved, Counci Iman Johnson seconded authorized preparrElon or
plans ard specifications for the expansion to the prblic works buildirq as
depicted on Attaclrnent B. A1l voted in favor and motion carried.
II 2.
Mayor Hamilton moved, C.ouncilman Horn seconded to amerd tbe agerda Eo move
Consent Agerda items 1(g) and I(b) to this point in the agenda. AIl voteci rn
favor ard motion carrid.
L
IAND DEVEIOP!{BTT APPLICATION
CITY OF CEANEASSEf,
690 Coulter Drive
Chaahassen, MN 5531?(612) 937-1900
APPLICANT: City of Chanhassen O{NER: same
, MN 55317
Zip Code zip CodeTELEPHONE (Daytime )
REQTJEST:
TELE PHONE
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amendment
Iand Use plan Amendment
Conditional Use permit
Site PIan Review
PROJECT NAME Expansion of p ublic Works Buildin g
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION INdUStTiAI
REOUESTED LAND
PRESENT ZONING
USE PEAN DESTGNATION
IOP
same
REQUESTED ZONING same
USES PROPOSED
STZE OF PROPERTY 1O
LOCATION
REASONS FOR THrS REQUEST See staff re po rt
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary)See site plan
ADDRESS 690 Coulter Drive ADDRESS
Chanha s sen
-
x
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch plan
_ preliminary plan
_ Final plan
Subdivision
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Street,/Easement Vacation
Wetlands permit
This application must be completed in fult and be type$rritten orcrearry printed and must u" ic.o*prni.i-ov arr information andprans required bv ""pr_icauie-;;;;t;;;;.nce provisions. Beforefilin9 this applic.Lion, you shoild confer with the City plannerto determine the soeci ri"'"ia i""i;; ;;;-pro.edural requiremenrsapplicable to your application
FTLTNG TNSTRU CTIONS:
Signed By
The undersiined reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is familiai wittr itre - proluj"i_it r"quiremenrs ofappJ.icable City Ordinances -
The undersigned herebyauthori zed to make thisdescribed.
Signed By
certifies that the applicant has beenapplication for the property herein
certifies
a1l
Date
Date
A '4 (.--1".., , -f f r. - I
(." -, . ./.- J 6- j .-77". -.-!
f r.c L c.-9,.-,^1 "4 tAL
A^,r.r. ^, .j:-:!-:*!'- /J'.
App li cao t
Fee Owner
Date Application
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
Rece i ved
Paid /UD f {
* * L/-/,ss /L*I o-Jt
-. // A"
9.r, .-.// e.1
4
/
/d,; .ff
C-e,.
/, <. ol. ....
74--7 -*ol.ca _/
City of Chanhassen
Land Development ApplicationPage 2
FILING CERTIFTCATION:
* This Application wirr be considered by the planning commission,/Board of Adjustmenrs and Appeats ii Cir"r..meeting.
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEET I NG
DECEMBER 9, L987
Chairman Conrad cal led
TimMEMBERS PRESENT:
the neeting to order at 7:40 p.m..
Erhart, Steven Emmings, Ladil Conrad, Howard
NozTE[E, SavIi--Heaata
MEMBERS ABSENT:
STAFF PRESENT:
Siegel and
Dacy, Ci ty
James Wi ldermuth
PI anne r
Rober t
Barbara
DISCUSS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE, MARK KOEGLER.
l'lark Koegl,er: what ere want to do this evening is take a few minutes tokind of update and get sorne crarification, poticy kind of comments fromthe Planning Commission. As you recaLl, we tatfLa to you, it'sprobably been a month or tr.ro ago, about the possibifity of doing some _corridor studies for some of. the major tranJportation irteries lhrouqhoutthe city. This group was kind of mixed on lhat. sonewhat sprit if rrecall- That did go onto the council and the determination of thecouncil was they wourd like that ki.nd of separati.on shown on the plan.what we want to do tonight is to update that and kind of set the tonefor srhat the types of uses that yourrl be rooking at this time around.The exhibit that's on the board right now is the plan that you've seenmany, many months ago. this is th.e zgag land use pran. Esienti al)-y itremains rargery unchangetl from what it was in l9g0 with the exceptionof some updates. These updates really coming about more as a resurt ofthe zoning process. what wetve done then is taken a rook, previouslywe talked about two different corridors. As a part of the gardencenter discussion we went through, r think it was an issue iot directlyas a part of the plan but it kind of became interw j.ned to a certaindegree- we looked at r.and .uses along TH 5. previousry arso the pranis showing !i.pfy low density residentjal predominantliy down here.That was refined somewhat as a resurt of discussions iat this groupwent through on a couple of occasions. once pertaining to TH 212 andthen later on as an example of r.rhat these corridor stu6ies night be.Thatrs the land use configurati.on we had talked about at thaE time andwe had talked about there being one spot of the neighborhood andhi.ghway oriented commerial down there which you stiIl sho$, there. Ifwe have any comments on that, any changes in thought, those would beappropriate this evening. The other thing i.t does show is essentiarlythe land uses we talked about for the TH 5 corridor. Again, that $rasrelating to the garden center in which rre were lookj ng it higherdensity adjacent to Lake Ann and then scattered uses ilong tire tn SfronEage consj.sting of high, medjum dens j.ty, some commercial at twolocations, and then office/industrial which would tie in with some ofthe deveropment that is currentry going on in the city of chaska rightnovr. Bear in mind again that therers no sewer here and this is aconceptuar statement. rtrs a number of years down the road before thatever wirl occur. so those are the two aieas that we have looked atkind of previously. The direction from the Council rdas to look atessentially TH 5, TH 10I, TH 2L2 and what we'll call old TH 159 as
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meet i ng
9, L987 - Page 2
corridors and they should be looked at as a part of the plan. Takingthat a step further, we looked at some scenarios of Iand use down inthe southern part of the city along TH TLZ and along TH 169. What
happens I think becomes pretty obvious and we didnrt really do thatuntil we put some of this information together and Barb, Jo Ann and Isat down and looked at it. What werre almost beginning to do as a partof these corridor analysis is to do a land use plan for the entirecity. Werre beginning to have very few areas really that are notcarrying some kind of designation. And that, we think, is perhapsgetting a littl-e bit beyond the scope of what r., e thought rre weregetting into. Land use down in this part of the city, in terms ofbeing of any intensity that would have sewer, is quite a ways off.Admittedly even more so than some of the more northern portions andthat gives us a little less degree of comfort in talking about whatthese things should or should not be. As a result, the suggestion that
we got that werre bringing back to you this evening is to look atspecific corridor studies for the areas withjn the MUSA like the TH IOIcorridor study r,re ran through before. If appropriate, portions of TH 5and then as we get out into the more rural areas, to util j.ze this k j.nd
of information as a base for discussion by this group is a base forkind of setting some policy goal kind of statements for what thesecorridors should be. I think maybe the best eray to illustrate that isby some examples. You'Il notj.ce the land uses that werve shown I thinkalong any of these corridors are consistent in philosophy with what wasshown along TH 5 in that werre tooking at adversity uses. Werre notlooking at creating a strip commercial corridor no; are we looking atcreating a solid industrial corridor. That kj.nd of thj.ng could be apart of the corridor study for TH 2L2 for j.nstance. If you would have
some statements in there, Iet me back up a step. What we're advocatingis not showing a detailed land use map within the corridor study for tft212 and for TH 169. In lieu of that, r.re talk about the corridor, talkabout sone of the potential qualities, talk about the improvements thatare supposed to go j.n, the timeframe for those lmprovements and thenmention some things like diversified land use, werd like some inputfron the comm j ss j.on on 17, if there ever j.s an interchange here, whi.chpresumably there would be eventually if the road gets built eventuaJ.ly,is that an area where we should consider possible addition ofcommercial growth? Do you want to do that even though maybe some ofthe other areas are not completely bui. It up or should that be held j.nreserve? We think there,s got to be, in a corridor study for some ofthese areas, there needs Lo be mentioned the relationshi.p bet!,reen landuse and the transportati.on improvement wbich is reaIIy spawning thiswhole effort. this is probably an excellent case in point right here.If TH 2L2 never happens, if we never have an interchange there,presumably you have the potential to create a significantly differentIand use pattern there. This one is really geared to where werre goingend up rdith some smaller parcels and sone odd pieces that may work welifor commercial tract or high density residentiLl tract. If Ehatrsgone, maybe $re get back to the scenario before where we've got a largerarea of low density that we feel is more reasonable. Thatrs again whywe get a Iittle oervous rrith going too far wi th some of these corr idois
Pl ann i ng
Dec ember
Commission Meet i ng9, L987 - Page 3
in terms of what they shourd be with the road. Now the TH 169 area,just in kind of brief review, what werve shown right now is theexisting commercial area remaining there. That oie is kind of ananory.to be quite honest with you, it gives us a little problem in terms ofhow Metropolitan council rooks it it. As a commeiciar area, it's notsei.rered and we've got to be a littre bit cautious with the wording ofthe Plan as the intent is not necessari.ly to expand that but tobasical.ly tolerate that as either a conf6rming i. non-.onforming use,depending on what kind of facility is there. Then from there hre tookedat possibly a pocket of high and mid-density residential. Maybe we,vegot a land area here that seems, as far as the physical quali[ies go tosuPport that pretty werI. A piece over here, tlreie's . littte valieyarea r.rith extreme topography and as you get over further :ast it,squite hilly aIso. We.ve -shown that pierceptually right now as perhapshigh density residential because thLre was a nLed -to do quite a bit ofintense clustering and barancing the property. Ref lectiirg some of theexisting commerciar and industriar down here, we're refreciing the pran
wi. 1l eventualry for alr of this to be included in the Naturar wildlifeRefuge so what werre, r guess aski.ng the commissi.on to provide commentson tonight- First of arr perhaps ii ttre approach that ie think maybeis the one to take- which is again, rook specif icarry "l ah" TH rOtarea within the MUSA, TH 5 within MUSA and iny other 6orridor $rithinthe sewered area- once we get outside of thal then, rather than treatthat by showing proposed land use maps, which may buiLd falseexpectations in some people and nay be unrealistlc expectations for arIwe know, to treat that more in a goil policy philosophy kind ofstatement. this is what we think the corridor strouia le. we r^rant adiversity of rand use. we want commerciar at major artery corners. wewant a buffer between certain kinds of uses. Those kinds of statementsand not get anymore specific than that. so with that, that,s kind ofthe _d_irecti.on wetre proceeding and would appreciate any comments youwould_want to provide on either how we approached thai or any of ihespecifics that are shown here.
conrad: r think maybe Jay and Bill may have some comments or may offersome help in terms of their perspective in Eerms what should be woveninto. the comprehensive plan. r think r r.ras the one that didn,t want toget.into doing this and I think Mark summarized it fairly well bymaking the statements that it forecasts some thi.ngs that $re can,tdeliver. rtrs so far in advance that, planning is- great but unress youknow, if youtve got enough inf ormat j.on, you neLd some and I guess Iworry that we havenrt hit the mark in many of our plans and ihen youget way out in advance of somethi ng you may send some s j gnal s topeople. The reality is you can't deliver on those plans so I guess myonry commenE is, rrm really pretty conservative. i do r-i.ke to pran aidthat's probabry $rhy rrm here but unless r know that r.re have some reargood data to base that plan on, it's sort of like, I find it verydifficult to provide varid information in the plan. Therefore, i tixear,rhat Mark said when h j.s direct j.on vras not Eo put;.t into theComprehensive plan, such as Iand use, but put it into goals andobjectives and maybe philosophy statements: So I agreJ with what
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting
9, L987 - Page 4
Mark's
here as
saying
much
but why don't we go around.
as we are in concept.
Not getting into specifics
Erhart: My reaction to this discussion last tine $ras that we dopresent some kind of a long term map of sort of what $re see. I guessthe basic assumption here or the basically thing that this depends onis whetber that f reerday goes in or not i.n that whole half section. Ifit doesnrt go in, this r.rhote thing is meaningless really so you couLdput I guess a note on there that this is the long term 2q20 ot r.rhateverplan you want to talk about. I think it would be he!.pful because Ithink yourre dealing with, just Iike the guy who came in with the planto put the store on TH 5. It's hard to deal rrith that if you donrthave an agreement on what your long tern plan is. I guess I'm in favorof doing this as long as it's clear this is not a speci fic 2006 yearplan but there is a 2A66 year plan that maybe is more dependable buttherers another one saying this is a concept only and it should beviewed upon as. State it so anybody seeing the plan can understandthat this Js concept and philosophy.
Conrad:
graphics You
and
take the concept and philosophy but you provide somea little bit more detail. That kind of detail with it.
Emmings: I guess I probably agree with Tim, and maybe itrs just my ownbias. When I read goals and objective sections I almost never knowwhat people are talking about and I thj.nk it,s really helpful to have,and maybe if you just say one an example of our goals and objectivesnight look like this. rt coutd look like anything but it might lookIike this. Just to make it a little more concrete. Otherwiie, I justget drifty erhen I read goals and objectives. I have no idea and Ithink anybody who read that, to make it meaningful to them, is going towind up coming in and saying $rhat are you acturlly talking about heieand it would be nice to show them something.
Conrad: And you think we can pin that down like Mark has tried to do?
Emmings: I think itrs conjectural. Irm talking about r^rjldconjectures. I think it's pure speculation thatrs on this board herebut I don't know that itrs necessarily irresponsible to do that as anexample of your goals and objective statement. Just say these are ourgoals and objectives. We don't knoe, how it,s going to play out butjust to give you some idea of what we're talking about,- this is onepossible scenar i o .
Erhart: I think the example Ladd, if I could interrupt, is if you lookat that land around TH 159 between the railroad track and TH 169,therers some opportunities there that if you donrt explore it today,yourlJ. never achieve. Yourre asking some good questions here. He'slong term. Hers saying high densj ty. I'm -saying hmm, thatrs across anational park. Itrs very steep terrain. Is it auildable at aII andmaybe the 56 year plan ought to be wildlife for the whoLe area and ifyou donrt Look 2A years down the road, you'Il never do things today to
PI ann i ng
December
Comm j.ss j on Meeting
9, 1987 - Page 5
ever get you there.
Emmings: I think it would be dangerous to call it a 2g26 plao. Iwouldnrt do that- r wourd say call it, donrt put a year ori it but justsay itrs a rong way out or erse carr it sornethlng th:at,s so far out butif you_'re go_ing to p.ut down goals and objectives, I think having anexample of it. Mark was abre to "ome u[i with ttris and rrm sure l,Iarkcould go back and alo r0 more and come up with 10 different ones and rwould realry have any v/ay to evaluate ihem but r thi.nk giving anexample isn't bad. Maybe you even rdant to give more th;n o;e. As longas those examples shos an application of those goars and objectives, ifmight not be bad to show moie than one.
Noziska: I donrt think it gives anybody false expectations of theplan. I think that'S it good to have a long rangL plan. yes, you,reright, it's absolutery to try and predicate it uion'trre locition anderhether or not werre going to have tH 2L2 going ihrough there. Tenyears ago we were probably as close to that as we are right now. FromMarkrs comments, he knows more about it than I do, is th;t still inthat great nebulous baII in the sky yet? Do you know anything moreabout TH 2L2 ytark?
Mark. Koeg.ler: Hopefully itrs a rittle croser since a consultant isabout to be selected but again, thatrs been done before.
Noziska: r knor., back in r9G7, r think r did a study on three differenterays to cross the river on TH 41. rt's stiLr ota ana that's 2g yearsago and the studies have been long thro$rn a$ray and they are no Iongervalid so things tike this do tend to drag on fiom time Eo time but Ithink there-ts enough pressure right now itr"t it wiff p.oUaify gothrough and I think that it make-s some sense for the e-Ianningcommission and the city of chanhassen to outline ,tat wir-i-
-ue
takingprace when that corridor goes in. r think it's good to --aaaiess
tneland down through the valiey. That may not be t-he sorution that thePlanning commission .thinks. is right bul r tnink it makes "o." .".,"".rf yourre going to change it, th6n change it but pr;j;.I iI"or.. rftherers a ttought that chanhassen never -wants thaI aiea deveroped, thenthey shourd let the peopre know or if rdater and sewer comes throughthat would allow some high density stuff in there, th";-;;;y shoutdalso let people know -that. ft,s gooa to have tir"l" fo"g-.J'ng" pf u.,"and objectives. people along TH 5, iE may not be exactiy the way I,dlay it out but it'!s a solution. TH 5 prob-ably rooks u"11"i- to ne thansome of that stuff on the ,tH 2L2 corridor. flm a tittte bitapprehensi.ous about too much residentiar arong a freerray. i,a in fu.ro.of seeing -sornething. whether or not this is dnat tte final statementis, I donrt know, but I think something should be said.
Conrad: And you rarant to get specific though?
Noziska: As specificyourre talking gI i tter as a 2g or 30 year plan
and generalitj.es and as
be. Al ways
around here, we
can
we
ever
know
Pl ann i ng
Decembe r
Commission Meet j. ng
9, L987 - Page 5
spot zone and every other thing depending upon somebody with a do-re-me
who comes through with a big idea someday. So that will always change.Exact use of the land, most I ikely wi ll change frorn the time that thisis put out but the general philosophy of developing higher density
along the freeways. The general philosophy of the open spaces and theparks and this and that. thatts really what.
Conraal3 I totally agree with your statements. I don't disagree. I
guess the point is that the detail to which we provide the specifics
and I think Tim and Steve are pretty comfortable with putt.ing doh,nsomething. Putting dov,rn some zones and circles that may indicate
something thatrs in concurrence with a philosophy.
Noziska: That's right tadd and sure, the specifics are always going tochange. In the last fee, years werve had so many speci.fics change,
flipping flop back and forth depending on who walked in with a betterplan so as long as the specifics that are given on the map reflect the
general pbilosophy, how can you go wrong?
Headla: I had a question, maybe two for Mark. If we go back 15 to 26years, with this type of planning that $ras done at that time, how close
are we to being Eo what rdas planneil?
Mark Koegler: I canrt give you a factual answer to that. I remember
the plan for the city was done I think in about 1968, if I remember
correctly, I saw probably a third or fourth generation xeroxed copies
of that when I was with the City in about 1977. If I remember right
they painted quiEe a large picture of simply Iow density residential at
the time and obviously the City has carried along on those tracks. It
diil show a Iot of planoing concepts that were rea I ly in vogue at tha t
time which vras defining neighborhoods by schools. rf r remember right
it showed a number of schools around the city and each of those became
the neighborhood unit and there was commerci al around those so in that
regard itrs not consistent. Itrs tough to say. At that time a Plan
was widely done, the late 6g's and early 70's where you would take an
entire city, border Eo border and you take out your colors and just
cover it. Planning after 1976 did require a more focused effort by the
city to tie into the san j.tary sewer. I'm not saying we're going back
to that by employing these type meetings. I don't think that would be
an accurate statement. ...so we are getting out there a ways. Itrs
much more questionable. If we do that, we definitely need a lot more
disclaimer language in the plan making it very clear Ehat these kinds
of thoughts which are reflected in these graphj.cs our predicators are
set on transportation, availabili.ty of sewer and those kinds of things.
Those become the overriding policies. You can do that and certainly
make that distinction.
HeadIa: Is planning much more of a science now than just guess work or
is it still in the early part of the cycle?
Dacy: Itrs called Ehe dartboard approach.
Planning
Dec ember
Commission Meeti ng
9, 1987 - Page 7
But they donrt think about their long range plan as next
Headla: I just wondered if you're a little more confortable now withyour planning process and forecasting procese.
Mark Koegler: particularly within both the Metro Council's MUSA lineand the city's MUSA line, I would say confidently that rrerrecomfortable with that. It's working as a target population and sometarget employment and so forth. Once you get outside of that, giventhe fact that the City is not free to do erhatever it wants to, it doesbecome a little more suspect and r think as Barb says, you are throwingmore darts. We're pretty comfortable with that level as long as itstays within pretty werl defined perameters. once you take the entirecity and add to it the areas, 2A20 is a nice date but I donrt know ifsome of those areas will sewer in 2020.
Noziska: r think yourre totally dependent upon what the MetropolitanSewer Commission has to say.
Headla: Yes, I think youtve got different triggers and that's r^rhatwe've got to look at but I like this concept. If you accept thephilosophy, no decision is forever and I certaintf believe- it. youlook at 1g years and the planning Commission thatls going to come inhere, it's going to be totally different but it's not going to be aradical I80 degrees type of thing. It,s going to be an ev6lution. I$rould suspect itrs going to be updated gradually. The same waybusiness plans do. They continually evolve. Ay ttre time you have itin print, itrs changed but it is a plan and it points "o*"ih"re in thetype of direction.
Conrad: What is the longest Control Data plans out Dave?
Headla: I saw the 2A62 plan t$ro years ago.
Noziska: They do plan ahead?
Headla: Definitely.
Noziska:
r^reek?
HeadIa:
chang i ng .
Nozi ska :
No, itrs way out but by the time you get a document, itrs
But itrs st ilL a general philosophy in a general direct j.on.
Headla: Thatrs the point. Itrs a general philosophy and it's the bestinformation you have_ at the time. As you get smarter and planning
becomes more of a science, yourre going to be more accurate.
Conrad: Jay, whaE do you think?
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting
9, L987 - Page 8
Jay Johnson: I Iike the approach of it being a general concept.Graphics are much more understandable. I just spent the day in a classthat every time the guy turned around he talked about conmunicatingwith graphics. People understand you a lot better when you communicatewith graphics. I agree with Steve and Tim. Therets going to have tobe a lot of disclaimers on the graphics but I think it's a goodconcept. Irm one of the people who will push for this far, Iong rangeplanning. Thatrs towards ,tH 2]-2 and TH 169. On TH 5, I'm concernedalso on interim use between now and when we get the MUSA. werregetting more and more pressure to allow some types of interim uses.Ird like to see some guidelines established saying therers not going tobe any interim use besides farming or putting a house in or here arethe lawn centers or putt putt golf, ererve got putt putt golf in therenow. The real plan for that. Just a speci.fic tittle corridor becausewe're goi.ng to be, in the next few years getting some very strongpressure to do some kind of development in there. I think if we startthinking that out now, $re can get some guidelines. Irm concerned morefor the TH 5 corridor because it,s much closer in our future. we'realready getting pressure there now. Itrs going to worse. The morestrict guidance we have at this time, the better off we'IL be.
Bill Boyt: Typical business plans, 5 years I think thatrs long rangeplanning. One year is getting to be fairly long range planning for
some businesses and werre lookj.ng at 35 years. I think it's a joke. Iwill back up a little bit and say everything you've said aboutconcepts, I buy that. Sure, to tell people $rhat we v,rant. AII thesedifferent colors, business and high density here, I don't see that'sit's worth the Eime and money. what are the chances of that happening?
Erhart: Ird comment on that since I do 5 year business plans. Thepremj.se for a business plan is totally different than the premise forthis. A business, I canrt predict by business, what it's going to beIike 3 years from now. I agree but you're dealing with a dj fferentthing. Technology changes. Customers change. Personnel change.
Theyrre all different. You canrt plan out. I'Il guarantee you that 30years from nord TH 5 will be there, TH 2L2 wjll be there, the housesthat are there today are stilL going to be there and yourre still goingto have the same problems and itrs still going to be growth. I thinkyourre dealing with an entirely different premise. In a zoning plan,or I shouldnrt say zoning, in a long term plan for a community, it'sjust not related to a business vrhatsoever.
Conrad: I do $rant to startInterviewing chandidates.to what we r re. . .
mov j. ng on to
Jay, go ahead
some otherif you have
things.
something relevant
Jay Johnson: Graphics, we donrt necessarily need to shor., TH 212. Wecan show any highway, not necessarily this particular Iand, a stretchof highway with an interchange on it and say this is an il lustration ofour concept. Not have it specific to southern Chanhassen. So you showit but itrs not geographically specific so it does illustrate and
Planning
December
Commission Meet ing
9, L987 - Page 9
peopre can stirr see it. so the farmer rdho owns that land right now ora developer who owns _that l,and r ight now is not going to say, gee, Idonrt want to put high density, relidentj.al ther6. t-here is norelationship but the concept can stirt be graphically illustratedbecause you've got a stretch of 4-rane trighway with 'an ini"i"n..,g.showing how on a typical interchange to do th;t.
Conrad: The Conprehensive plan that werre updating is realIy validuntir the yeax 2oa0 right? And we know wha€ we're- tatx-ing atout. rt'snot-going to go into effect in the year 2060. we know these corridorsw-irl not be open for deveropment, f6r commercial, for residentiar bythe year 20ao or like we're 99t sure that a l*lusA rine is not going tobe extended to incorporate some of these areas that $/erre rooking at.Is that a pretty good guesstimate?
Mark Koegler: I would bet with you on that one, yes.
Conrad: And the Comprehensive plan called what r^retre going to beIooking like in the year-2000, we,xe going to put what ure're going tolook like in the year _2020. rhe majoi coipora-tions of this countrycanrt put together a r0 year plan thatrs c1ose. werre tarking aboutputting together something that's 25 years, 30 years in the future. Ido disagree with you Tim. Even though there ari highwayi, we donrtknow where TH 169 is totarry going to be yet. r think t-here are somethings that are reatly tough to seltre o.,. you donrt kno, if a varr;yFair vrants to move in. I ahink there are some things that we justdonrt.h.ave the foggiest idea now and Irm real n".voJs about puitingsomethi.ng that r^re think - i.s in the year 2020 in a year 20A6 plan.That's my nervousness. phil_osophically however, I Iike doinf, some ofthe concept. r think thatrs rLalry kind_of neat and r 9;.;i ererve gotsome. various opinions. BiIl's on one side and that's wiy ,lay,s oveion the other side- r think what I'd rike to do and take ts away fromthis, the detair to which we get to r,m not sure, but r think Mark rrdlike to invite Mark back and where we do some concepting on these tr.roparticular, I think we soul-d relook Howie at TH 5. Irrn realcomfortable rrith TH 5 and ho$, you've got it laid out there. I thinkthere are some realry nice thi.ngs. r think we shourd look at interimuses there and r thi.nk that makes a rot of sense. r don't have thefoggiest idea how we want aH 2r2, TH 169 to rook. r just don't knowand r think if we're tarking concept, which everybody is saying rightnow, r don't kno$, what the concept is. r haven,t diicussed-the coiceptwith anybody and r donrt know vrhat anybody's thoughts .." fo. that so rguess it sounds to me like we need a working sessi.on with uark to starttalking about what our philosophies and concepts are.
Noziska: r think thatrs a wonderful idea but r donrt agree with Bilrand I do agree $rith him. On one aspect I thiok that so;t of graphiciLrustration of a general direction is important if for no otn.. reasonthan to give the aura of progression in the city of chanhassen ifnothing else. But beyond that, r donrt think ii's worthwhiie spenaingan alrf ul lot of time, thi.s is where I agree with him, I donrt think
P). ann i ng
Decembe r
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itrs very worthwhile at all to spend a lot of time on it. To just givea general, philosophical direction and say hey, if a Iot of things
happen this is what r.re feel should take place but to spend a heck of alot of time dinking around with it, I don't think so. I think therersjust some Iittle philosophical statement that the Ptanning Conmission
can arrive srith Mark in a very short period of time. Whether or notthat flatland between the railroad track and TH 2L2, TH 159 needs to
have anything done with it other than tow density residential and alsoif in fact TH 2L2 is going to go where we promise it's going to go,
are you going to want to keep that residential or are you going for
some high density stuff here and there. That's just about as far as
you can 90. I think that's the only quesEion in philosophy that I
would see at aII in this.
Conrad: So, I guess most votes are for more detail than maybe vrhat Ird
1i ke to see but I think that we can deal with that if we invite Mark
back and let's start $rith the philosophy stage. Mark, I don't thinkthatrs going to be a big deal. I think, like Howie said, I think we
need you for half an hour so we can start talking conceptually. I'dlike to feed that back up to the city council before, real quickl.y, so
r.re get their thoughts on whether that's the right philosophy in termsof their eyes and thoughts and proceed from there. If the consensus is
that we need the examples and the detail, werll do that. Then we'Il
work up the administrative h,ay, Mark, of working this out to nake itvery clear what werre talking about trying to do. Is everyone in
agreement with that?
Emmings: I don't know if Mark can do it, he certainly can't do it in
half hour, but when he comes back and talks to us about these concepts,
it would be an ar^rf ulIy good opportunity to educate us on how to think
about these things. I don't know how he came up lrith this particular,
how he colored this in but he $rent through some kind of a process there
and Ird like to know erhat it is. what do you think about laying things
side by side because I certainly don't know.
Erhart: why do we need a 260A year plan?
Conrad: To help us plan.
Erhart: well, I know
seem to me thatrs the
If we're going to eliminate one, it would
el imi nate.
we know wherethe MUSA's I ine
change.
tha t.
one to
Conrad: But we've got more definition on 2000 because
the MUSA line is. Thatrs the key. we don't know wheregoing to be ever. we don't know if itrs ever going to
Erbart: That you do know.
Noziska: I think at some point in time you can build a house in Eagan,
you can build a house in Chanhassen and just in a few lots left in Eden
Frairie. Itis either that or you can dr-ive to St. Cloud. Itrs obvious
PIann ing
Decembe r
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CAROL WATSON
Carol watson: Irve lived within a mile of where I live all my life.My family came to chanhassen in 1909. rrm a regist"..a .,ri"". r doutilization review for Health Risk Management on a part time basis. rwas on
-t-h-e
pranning Commission f rom 19g-0 to 19g2. r was on the councilfrom 1982 to I985 and f _am.p-resently on the goaral oiedJr"i*.nt .naAppeals, carver county solid waste etvisory committee a'na ltre park andRec Commission.
that development is coming this way.
COMMISSION APPLICANT INTERVIEWS.
Conrad: Why areversus the comm i
you interested in getting on the Planning Comm i ss iont tees, and f guess that brings up what you would dowith the committees you are currently on?
Conrad: How come you want to get back on the Commission?
carol watson: r r^rould resign my position on the park and Recreationcommission. r don'it know thit th-eie would be a conflict as iar theBoard. of Adjustment and Appeals. There always used to be a elanningCommission member on that board so there's no real conflict to being onf!"t. .During the pea.k- building season t.hey do meet pretty much everytime there's a councir meetin{ but now sin-ce like th end 6f ieptemoer,early October, we haven,t met. It's very sporatic. Itrs vrhen someonevrants to buird a garage and their 10t's ioo-smalr or they $rant to buirdin Carver Beach or ned Cedar point. They are very restrictive Lotsizes and they almost always need a variance.
Carol watson: Because Ianything I learned duringThe la nd use issues.
zoning and land use issues. If there'syears, thatrs what really interested me.
Iike
the
Conrad: Whatrs
Chanhassen?
your philosophy on the direction for growth for
Carol Watson: In having helped developed the new zoning ordinance, itwas one of my rast of f iciar icts as a ctunci r p.iron ".I #-rini"r, tr,"ordinance-, -r perfer the lar-ger lot sizes obvio-usry. r-;";- thaE used onthe Board of Adjustment and-Appears, you see a nei house ina tne ptatfor the development hasnrt been there i.n years, someone,s coming inbecause they can't add on a po-rch. They tan't-uuird a-deJand itrsbecause the lots lrere too smilr to accom'odate unyttr,g u-"i."a hrhat wasbuilt in the first place so I like. larger lot sizes. I think thatchanhassen is ooino to groer. rn the s6wered areas you cin-no rongerafford to farm: t[ was- inevitabte. iti= co*ing un6 ." -ionq ." we havea chance to p1an, I hope the nerd ordinance r= nirpl .e i.-;;i. it easierfor the developer to cbme in and "." ,t.t we wuniu";;li-;; ro guide
PLANN I NG
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting
9, L987 - Page 12
us as we try not to be too arbitrary in our decisions.
Conrad: Whatrs the good and the bad about growth so far?
carol watson: The bad is the dwindling open spaces that those of usrrho have rived here a rong time are us6a Lo s"-"ing. Trying to pr.an foropen spaces. Eor parks and for enough open spaces in our developmentsthat we stirl can see some of that. The up slde of course is a -larger
tax base, Iarger community. More people to make use of the facilitiesthat we are designing and setting up for a more populated community.Itrs almost more inevitable than anything that we put a handle on it
and say h,hether we like it or not.
Conrad: Last question is the time that yourve got and I know Carolyou've always got a Iot of energy to trhatever you've been on. How isyour time? What is your availability right now? we alr4rays haveproblems maintaining 759 attendance here.
Carol watson: I missed one council meeting in 4 years. When I'mcommitted, I make the time to do it.
Conrad: How are you in park and Rec?
Carol Watson: I believe iE,s 79t or something.
GARY BAS S
Conrad: Gary, can you give us a real nutshell of your
work and home, whatever. Almost what you have on your
summarize it for us a little bit.
background at
sheet but
Gary Bass: I'm originally born and raised and my formal education wasin Michigan. I transferred here with Sherwin-Williams Company in l9g3and lived in Chanhassen, my wife and I for one year on carver BeachRoad. sherwin-williams, r'|ve been with the sheiwin-wirliams company asan open sares representative for 7 years now. prior to that it was-myformal education. I graduated with a BS in urban planning. I pursueithat field as a county recreation planner for a little ov6r a yEar andas an assistant city planner. Frankly I found that the money was nott.bere so I pursued other avenues. r worked in the buirding irade as asubcontractor in floor covering and walr covering and kind -of eased myway i-nto the.building trade and wound up with sherwin-williams. r'mvery happy with sherwin-wilriams and to be in their emproy. However, rdo feer r.kind of negl.ected my degree and r would likJto-geE back intothe planning i.n a kind of vorunteer aspect. r have . "on"irn in landuse. Irve seen some horrendous land use planning. r've seen some verygood land use pranning and r see chanhassen as a community on Ehe moveand growing very rapidly. I feel as though I could contributesomewhat in planning for the best use for the majority of the peopLethe majority of Ehe time.
Conrad: That sort of takes care of the second question.dir:ction do you think chanhu"""n "t ou1d grow i;t il y;t:philosophy on their growth?
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting9, L987 - page 13
Conrad
o ther
additi
days a
thatrs
workinyour ttype o
Headla: Do you have any quest.ions of the Commission?
cary Bass: In section I of the duties and1-2 it stated that the planning Commission
: What we require on the planning Commission, r.re meet everyweek, basically two times a month which necessitates anonal thro days a month for preparation so yourve really goL fourmonth. We require 75t attendance at the planning Commission andhard. It seems 753 is not that big a deal but I th ink if yourreg and yogrre on the road,. it's a lot of stuff. TaIk to us lboutrme. It's one of Ehose things wJiearty-;;aa- be;:iiie-'itis- d,]o.u*f issues here. Tell us about your ava ilability.
cary Bass: My job r am invorved in sares however, rrm not overnight.r rarely have commitments to travel overnight so r donrt anticipat-ethat r would miss meetings often. rrm familiar with the commitirent ofa Planning commission member in that my employ with the county and thecity of Marquette in t'tichigan, r was prepail.ng presentations for thePlanning commission and attended those meetings so m familiar vriththe time. r put in some long hours sometimes meeting right into thewee hours of the morning as r recalr. r thought long an6 hard beforeactuarly fired an application to consider myserf an ippricant for theposi tion.
Wha t
have a
Gary Bass: I have a difficult time in answering that question. Irm notas famiriar as r should be to answer ihat. However r f6er that maybethat my being neg in- the com.munity mi jt t trave aa.rant.f"s 1ri-tt ut rdonrt have any biases or anything in tiil manner. r see the directionChanhassen should take, as i ^..rli on.J- bef ore, is the definition ofland use pranning. we shourd considei itre uest use of the rand for themajority of the people a majority of the time. rtis-as-slmite as that.
Conrad: Anything good or bad about how you see the community growingright nohr?
Gary Bass: contrary to opinion, number one the _downtown devel-opment.that r see, r like. r think it'has some po teni iit - ril;ii" tEE' p.o]e"t ,sconpleted- when alr the aesthetics are Ehere, r think the,m6re-peoprewill enjoy it and pr-ais5 it .than they do right now. I see, as everyoneelse does Irm sure, lack of transportation planning. I have someconcern, r don't know hov, founded it is, in the relreationai pr.ans forthis _area. Normally when you see residential develop*.ni oio, u"rapidly as Chanhassen is, iometimes enough cons ial-rlT i;;- i'sn'i liven tothe recreation aspecE. Like r say, r can't comment on it because rrmnot real familiar with the City as of yet. I r,rould hope to be.
I
responsibilities, SectionshaII prepare a
PIann ing
December
Commission lleet ing
9, 1987 - Page 14
Comprehensive Plan. I interpret that as there is no Comprehensive
Plan?
Barbara Dacy: No, there is one. We adopted it in 1982.
Gary Bass: The other thing I had underlined here vras the subdivision
ordinance and that's one area that Itm not real familiar with and would
enjoy working lrith. In working in the Iron Range of upper Michiganthere was not a lot of new subdivisions going in, which might be
expected so we didn't have to deal with that a lot.
Emmings: Is there any particular issue thatrs provoked your interest
in the Planning Commi ss ion?
cary Bass: Not any issues in patticular with Chanhassen but issues
that have come up in my life after my education. The different
communities that I've been in.
Emmings: It's the broader issue so no
caught your a ttent i on?
particular j.ssue in Chanhassen
Gary Bass: No. Issues in general related to quality of the
environment letrs say and casual comments by friends or neighbors in
relation to conditions in general. whether it be transportatj.on or
schools or recreational facilities or problems with the roads. r find
it interesting how many times a day if you stop and think and count,
the comments that are made and conversation brought up that deal
directly with quality of our environment. That deal directly with our
land use.
Erhart: You own your own house here in Chanhassen?
Gary Bass: Yes.
Erhart: Do you have a fanily?
cary Bass: No. I have a wife.
Erhart: why did you pick Chanhassen as a place Eo buy your home?
Gary Bass: Aesthetics. I suppose if I had driven TH 5 a fe$, times
before I had signeil the commitment I may have looked elsewhere but
found a beautiful home on Carver Beach Road above Lotus Lake and it
the best house for the money that we found.
Erhart: You didnrt pick out, I want to live in chanhassen? It eras
basically the home?
we
was
Gary Bass: I looked overto Chaska and Chanhassen
a year.
area.
I looked from Lake Elmo all the way
Planning
Dec embe r
Commission Meet ing
9, 1987 - Page 15
JOHN OLSON
Conrad: Give us a real brief scenario of your background.
John Olson: Eor the record my name is John orson. r live aE 69gconestoga Trair which is in chanhassen vista 2nd Addition which is thenew deveropment about 3/4 of a mire to the north of here. we closed onour house on November rst of this year so rrve onry rived in chanhassenfor a very short time- prior to that r rived in Richfierd. currentryrrm the director of research for the Minnesota chamber of commercewhich is in association with 92 tocal chambers of commerce and some51000 businesses from all over the state. As director of research rrmresponsible for preparilg and anaryzing various data on comparing forinstance Minnesotars rerative posiiion-to other states in t6rms ofthings like tax policy,, workerls compensation costs, empfoyrnentcompensation costs and so on down the 1ine. My education-is t h"ve aBachelor of science degree from the university Lf uinnesota inagricultural and applied economics which is i tittte bit misleadingbecause the emphasize that r had during my course of study was in -
community development. so in addition to having the educitionalbackground on community resource development and the things associatedwith that, rrve also been able to get 4 years lrorth of exferience inworking at the state level and from time to time dealing "itn some ofthe issues on a state level that rrm sure many of yor.ie dearing !rithfrom the perspective of Chanhassen. My interast i-n being on thePlanning Commission is that even if I,m not appointed to thecommi.ssion, being a resident of chanhassen an6-having the backgroundand the access to the various types of data and infoimation, r think rcan make a contribution in terms of tryi.ng to help you or the staff orboth. of you out in trying to get at certain types-o1 information.Particularly things like whatrs happening in oitrer communities aroundthe state. Last summer I drove 5,qOO rr.iles and alI of it was inMinnesota so frve had a chance to go around the state and see howthings are done in different communities which I think is an assetbecause once you go .through a community, in fact once you've gonethrough many communities you can look at them and you 6an see-where youor I might think that some mistakes were made and hopefu).ly we canlearn from those mistakes. particurarly when you're deariig withissues Iike commercial development. easically, my view o., irhutdirection chanhassen shourd take, rrm somewhal- opln o., that right nowbecause r've only rived here for a month, rrm still getting accustomedto.where things are and bow to get from point A to point A. Veryquickry though r guess r would see two i.mmediate th-ings. Number one,with the amount of development and construction that,i going on outhere, particurarry in your single family dwelrings, you -hav6 a sizeableamount of new income coming into the communiEy. -with that ner^r incomecoming into the Chanhassen area, obviously at some point you're goingto start to have developers that are goiog to be looking Jt tne 6ity-like chanhassen and seeing dolrar signs in their eyes b6cause maybe,just maybe we can score a good deal on a piece of -land and put up ashopping center or strip mall or whatever that's going to piovide us
PIann ing
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vrith a wonderful return on the investment. In fact, I would probably
guess, and Irm just guessing, that Chanhassen today is probably at the
same stage that a city, for exanple like Eagan, where Eagan lras at
maybe 10 or 15 years ago or Burnsville L5 to 2g years ago. I guess myquick analysis r.rould be, I think you have the opportunity to Iook atplaces like Eagan and Burnsville that have grown very rapidly over thepast decade and see what theyrve done. Maybe it is the best htay to do
things. Maybe it's not. Maybe you need to do a mix of things in there
but I think the key element in planning is Iooking at what has already
been done by other people and taking the time to analyze it and see is
this really srhat we want? Is this aPplicable to the City? Those
types of more essetaric questions that are often difficult to answer.
In terms of my time commitnent, I really don't have too many concerns
about that. My work day typically starts at 6'.39-7.09 in the morning
because I find it's the only time I can get work done because at 9.go
the phone starts ringing.
Conrad: Basically lve meet twice a month and that means you really need
a night in advance to do some preparation and reading because sometimes
rre get stacks. we review our Comprehensive Plan and it's a lot of work
and we have special sessions but rde require 758 attendance at the
Planning Commission and it seems easy until you really have to hit that
75t rnark. I guess what we're kind of interested in, if you feel that
is a realistic Aoat for you, that you can attain that kind of
commitment to the Conmi ss ion .
John olson: My attitude has alvrays been, as far as work is concerned,
because I work in downtown St. PauI, thatrs a 30 mile commute one way
and I would much rather get uP early in the morn j.ng and drive in
instead of working Iate at night, I would just rather do it on the
front end and take off at 4ztg in the afternoonr which I usually do ancl
get here by 4:45 ox 5.OA before the real crunch hits in Eden Prairie.
So in terms of missing meetings or anything like that, I donrt perceive
any problem in that.
Conrad: What questions do you have of us?
John Olson: Irm going to throw out kind of a loaded question, just out
of curiosity more than anything, where do you see Chanhassen in let's
say 10 years? I guess where Irm coming from Mr. Chairman is that vrhen
my wife and I were shopping for houses, we Iooked in many, many suburbs
and the most vivid one that stilI stays in my memory was when we were
in Eden Prairie and we were Iooking at a particular developer, I wonrt
mention any names, where clearly they had Eaken something that l^ras
meant to be two lots, like say thjs tabLe was tvro lots and divide it
down the middLe. what they had done instead was they had put in a
private cul-de-sac and had split it into three lots so you had house l,
house 2 and house 3 and it was very evident that the developer was
trying to cram as many homes in as they could in a given amount of
space. I guess as a new resident out here, we have a very good sized
lot and all the lots in the development are of good size and I
PI ann i ng
Decembe r
Commission tteet ing9, 1987 - Page 17
understand that is by ordinance and rrm sure with a considerabre amountof work that you forks did. r wourd be concerned as a resident downthe long run to see the city acquest to the pressures of developers anddeveropers have ways of exerting pressure. in trying to come in andcram 50t more homes into an area where aestheticalty it really, franklycanrt handle it. Then of course once you get more homes in there, theiyou also need more commercial development and the whole thingsnowballs. . The onry thing that r reirry see as a frying branket is theTH 5 situation. If that doesn't get reJolved soon, de.rJtop."nt I wouldguess will probabty come to a screeching halt.
conrad:_ . r think yourve identified some concerns that some of us haveand r think what werve done John over the time that rrve been around,is werve tried to identify assets. uniqueness and then make sure thatthe growth fit in with thtse assets. tiey may be lakes. They may beopen sPaces. They may be a farm. Again, through our ComprehensivePlanning process we kind of identified those and we tried to guide thegrowth. I think a lot of us have spent some time on that kind of apranning and r think thatrs why we'ie here. Hopefurry werre guidingthat kind of an orchestr-ated growth whi.ch probably sa-ys not much but incase you end up, a 10t of us did get on ttre Dlanning cdmmission simplytrying to preserve some of things you were talking about.
John olson: yourre just a part of the overall process with the counciland rrm sure the chamber and the Mayor and uhe other various entitiesthat also have vested interest.
Erhart: Why did you pick Chanhassen overIong ways to St. paul.other areas? you drive a
DANIEL CHRI ST I E
Conrad:
Almost
word s .
your background.but in your own
. .If you could just give us a brj.ef summary ofthe stuff that you put on the application form
John olson: A couple reasons. My wife works at cargi. l1 up in wayzataand part of her responsibilities include getting calis troir peopre at1:30 in the morning saying the computer has diei, come in lo work.secondly, and to be very-candid wiEh you, the rand varue out here, theprice th-at we paid for the lot Ehat we got was the best in the Tvrincities that r.re found. rn the areas in fhe south and western parts thatwe r^rere looking for. That was not Ehe onry factor. we were arsolooking at deveropers and the quarity of the construction of the homes.Those sorts of things. We both come from smaller towns vrhichchanhassen stirl has a very good mix of the fact that you're right nextto the metropolitan area but it has a very distinct smjll townattitude. Deinenure or .however you rrant to describe it. rt seems likea small tordn out here in that respect and on the basis of that, wechose to build here.
Planning
Decenbe r
Commission Meeting
9, 1987 - Page 18
Daniel Christie: I'm originally from Milwaukee and a graduate of theUniversity of Wisconsin Milwaukee. Irm an engineer. I work for publicutility and then several consulting firms. I moved from Milwaukee outto Denver and then to Monrose, Louisiana and moved up to Chanhassen in
January of L979. I worked for tiro locaI consultants here in town andthen I started with my own business in 1984. The type of consulting
r^,ork that Irve done is primarily energy related and it's for municipalutility and industrial clients. I get into such things as designerboiler and incinerators, etc.. Do you want me to continue?
Conrad: Yes, just tell us why you're interested in the planning
Commission.
Daniel Christie: I think my wife and I have, just due to the nature ofthe type of business that Irm in, working for other consultants, wenever really had any roots. Due to lay-offs, Iord workloads, changes ininterest in the company where theyrve decided to divert, it was
necessary to keep moving so $re never real, Iy did put down any roots.
Outside of Mileraukee where I was brought up, Irve lived in ChanhassenIonger than anywhere else and I think werre here. Ird like tocontribute to this arears growth and at Ieast make some type of acontribution towards which things, in some cases irritate me, such as
TH 5 and I think also my background as an engineer and now as a
businessman might give a slightly different perspecEj.ve to some of the
views on the Planning Commission.
Conrad: Have you served on anything else in the community? Have you
been with any other cornmunity or civic Aroup?
Daniel Christie: I work with several groups that were related to my
technical background. I worked with ASME, American socieEy of
Mechanical Engineers here in town, the local chaPter and also the
computer, the Texas Instrument professional computing group but I
haven't done anything on a civic background.
conrad: What direction do you think Chanhassen should gro!'r? Do you
have a philosophy of growth in this community?
Daniel Christie: My own opinion towards looking at no growth
situation, is I think when you quit growing you start dying and I think
though that you can qo through a controlled growth and exercise some
direction torrards which way the city can grow. I have no problem r^rith
Chanhassen getting larger. I think the area obviously, incJ.uding the
Twin Cities, has an awful lot of people and wetre not going to be a
small tosrn or an oasis because the area is growing so I think as long
as r., e can provide the kind of services that people in this tor,"n need
and require, that that gror^rth isn't a problem. I think unbridled
growth right noe, with TH 5, for an example if it were to be l-ef t
uncheckedl would create problems but if highways can take the people, I
wouldnrt see any problem \,rith growth in the area. The same for any of
the other utilities and amenities that go with living in a municipality
like Chanhassen.
Conrad: Why dontt you summari ze foxyou see about the growth. Irm sureas the good?
US
TH5
the
is
good and
the bad.
bad things that
What do you see
Danier christie: r think the nicest thing about chanhassen is r seefor any number of reasons, the community coming together closer withour dorrnt-orrn development. I hate to brlng it up again, but TH 5, itseems to be something thaErs armost bringing the people together ratherthan dividing them and r rike the development th;t we've h-a d as far asbicycre. paths throughout the community. our park system. r think forthe most part our development has beeri handlei fairiy welt.
conrad: rn talking about time conmitment, the pranning commissionmeets twice a month which arso neans that yourre goinj to be spending anight.beforehand preparing for it. The packlts ..i rg -pages rong and -
sometines they are I00.pages long. It iequires that typ6 of acommitment and we require 75t atiendance ihich means 3-tut of 4meetings- yourve got to be here. We do that because of a quorum. Wervegot developers coming in and having public hearings and w6 can'tdisappoint them in terms of whether ere can hear a-n issue or not. whydonrt you tell us about your ability to fill that kind of timecommi tment .
Daniel christie: Now that rrm on my own, my office is in my house so rdonrt have the commute time. r erork in the area and r'm an€icipatingmoving on out into regular offices but they would probably be in thearea that rrm looking at in chanhassen, a commerciir build1ng, the orddrug rehab center. r think one of the reasons that r probabry wasn,tinterested in this type of a situation before was the a'mount oftraveling r was doing r.rhen r was working for other conpanies. Therewas one year r put 37 flights bet$reen Mirwaukee and Minneapolis. Nowmy work is p.retty well a day out of town, I probably haven-,t spent I0days a year in a motel so I think the time commitment and theinterference with the $rork isn,t a problem like it was in the past.
Conrad: What questions do you have of us?
Danier christie: what type of issues does the planning commission getinto? Do they review everything that you review and p-repare a reportto you or is it less or more specific tban that?
Conrad: Primarily they are land use issues. we,re not in planningother items for the City other than that. We get into zoning. We getinto subdivisions. We prepare Comprehensive pian, which is ior the-Metropolitan Council, which tells us ho rr, werre going to grow and howwerre goi.ng to have utiLities and services to support that gro$rth. wehord.public.hearings. we're the group that uasitilry lets issues opento the public for their input and have to make our decisions and p a-ssthat along to city council. we even have to make tougher decisiois
Planning Commission Meet ing
December 9, L9g7 - page t9
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meet i ng9, 1987 - Page 20
based on the community's j.nterest in those areas.
Headla:
day, Itm
L2. Og?
I was thinking,just dragg i ng.
sometimes we go after rnidnight
Can you get along with working
and the nex t
unti I 11:00 to
Daniel Christie: I havenrt in the past, in fact quite often I workIate at night. I find that in my business I can get more done in anhour at night than I can during the day because of the constant phonecalling so itts not tough for me to work untj.l midnighL-Ll.AT. Althoughif I'm really wiped out because Irve done this for a while, it.s noproblem for me to hold back my hours in the morning by an hour or so.
Emmings: Is there any particular issue in Chanhassen or in your
neighborhood or anything like that that's prompted your interest in thePlanning Conun i ss i on ?
Daniel Christie: I think the three things that Itve seen recently that
most prompted my interest are the fight with TH 5, developnent of the
dov'rntown,/TH 101 route and I as some of my acquaintances have called itthe hairpin turn coming out of that, and the city square, town squareconcept which I thought was nice. I think those were the three majorissues. I canrt really point to anything that's been directly underthe control of the city that I think has been totaLly bad. Irm not anirrate citizen, mad as hell and going to go out and change the world.I just thj.nk that some of my philosophies may be slightly different
than current and was interested in applying for the positions that you
had open.
Conrad: What do your neighbors say about the city?
Daniel Christie: It's sort of funny, in the area around our house wehaven't been Eerribly close to some of the funny neighbors. Theimmediate neighbors, one of them is a young couple thatrs burning the
candle at both ends. Hers going to school and working and vrhat not.
He just doesnrt have time to do much. And the others, an old time
Cha ska-Chanha s sen resident and been here since day I and plans onstaying here and I never bear anything bad from them either. Most ofthe criticisms you hear about government they start at the state level
and go down.
DAVID C. PRI LLAMAN
Conrad: If you could give us a Iittle bit of your background, some ofthe things that you put on the application. The length of time yourvelived here and your work and that would be helpfuJ..
David Prillaman: I live on Red Cedar Point in Chanhassen since 1961.I've lived in Minnesota since 1949 and I retired about 3 years ago. Mywork lras not very important but I managed a plastics division for
Planning
Decembe r Commission Meet i ng9, 1987 - Page 21
carter Day company in ttopkins. since r retired, we sord our propertyon Red Cedar Point and moved into Red Cedar Cove. The only t-hing I,;doing right at the moment, rrm doing some volunteer rdork trelping-olderPeopre with their income taxes and the gorf course, since r donit haveanything to do. My interest in the thing lies in the fact I didn,tknow that Dave was on the planning commiJsion. r think we need somerepresentation on the north part of chanhassen and the Lake Minnewashtaarea. Some things that are going on over there, therers a lot ofdeveropment left to be done and if there was anything r could do to seeit done in an appropriate matter, that is what f woul-d like to do. Idonrt have any particular qualifications. Irm not sure that anybodydoes. riro an engineer and architect and maybe what you have to rook atis sometimes resort to the environments. i ttrinr tliat,s item one.Land in the lakes. you can build roads and houses most anyplace butyou can a1so. destroy the things if you're not careful in puisuing someof these proj ects.
Conrad: Do you have some philosophies on gro$rth for Chanhassen.Youtve lived here for many, many years and as you can tell Chanhassenis growing. Whatrs your philosophy on that? ihat's really what rre doin terms of t.he planning Commission. We plan growth.
David Prilraman: r thi.nk the pranning comrnission has done a good jobin TH 5 corridor. r think the highway department needs to get into thepicture now on some kind of basis. r thi;k that sometimes jovernmentis too concerned with tax base and not enough concern with itratcomprises that tax base. r think there are times when you might havetoo much buirding for the rand that is involved. r can think of a fewinstances of that and r'm not going to get into any details becausewhat has been done has been done but I think thereire times whenperhaps other tor,rns have gone too far. r think that as this bui.rdingcontinues, I think there should be some means for some agency toprovide a littte bit on the builders to see that the sitL isn'E fouledup for a long period of time. Some of it might be necessary. Some ofit is compretely unnecessary and r don't know whaE vehicle is used topolice these things and take care of them but rrm sure you've driven bysome buildings sites that have been underway for a long, Iong time andthatrs just a matter, it seems to me, of having a littie bit more pridein our community and our area but as far as the development of the
"ity, f know nothing about that. I'm in it occasi.onally. On TH 5 onlywhen I have to be but I donrt have to be anymore. I feal that's aproblem and has to be addressed at some point. The constructi.on thatis taking place out here south and west, I think thatrs remarkable...Maybe there's nothing we can do to speed up construction or to poJ-icethe. areas as they go along and maybe this is just something thatnothing can be done about. If I $rere talking to buiLders 6r owners, Iwould want to know hov, Iong they miqht think it r.rould take them to getinto a _site and get out of it. crean up and move on to something eise.Dave, Irm sure you know what Itm talking about. Over on Lake...andthen Red Cedar Cove also.
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting9, L987 - Page 22
Headla: That particular subject did come up here.
David PriIlaman: I live at Red Cedar Cove and I rdas talking about someof the stuff that Itve seen and I kno$, there is going to be more takingpl ace .
Conrad: In terms of tine, we meet twice a month and everytime we meetit probably takes a day or a night of preparation of going throughmaterials and we have an attendance requirenent of 751 which means youhave to be at the meetings 3 out of 4 times simply because ofcontinuity but trdo, we need a quorum. we have a lot of folks with aIot of noney, and developers primarily coming in to talk to us and torepresent the community we need to have a quorum. Therefore, theattendance requirement. How do you feel, do you feel you can meet thattype of requirement?
David prillaman: I $rouldn't have any problem. I donrt spend too muchtime on vacation...I donrt have anything else to do. I donrt haveanything to interfere with it. Irm not sitting here making anapplication because I lrant to be on the planning Commission. Irmsitting here making an application because I feel I might be of somehe1p. I could care Iess about titles. I haven't impressed anybody, Inever rranted to impress, I never had anybody I wanted to inpress...
Conrad: What questions do you have of us on the planning Cornmission?
David Prillaman: None in particular. I've attended a few of themeetings. Where yourve had the open meetings and I dontt remember vJho
was on then. I do have this question having to do with what kind offollow-ups do you have in respect that Irve just been talking aboutsuch as cleaning up building sites and cleaning up those objectionalsites. Is that part of vrhat you fellas do?
Conrad: Not really. I think itrs the city staff. We may bring thoseitems up. we may be concerned with a developer in the beginning andlay out some requirenents for timing. GeneralLy however, because vlerrevolunteers in the community, we kind of keep our ears open for certaintypes of concerns. If folks are abusing things that would be directedto city staff to follow up on. If $re see things that should beorchestrated in terms of an ordinance, it,s our job to raise thoseissues and make them part of the ordinance.
David Prill.aman: Actually, the most of your activity has to do withdealing people who cone before you with proposals or for overallplanning?
Conrad: We focus on land use and we do that a couple of ways. We vrorkon whatrs called the Comprehensive PIan which kind of forecasts wherewe're going fox lg years and we ask for community involvement.TypicaIly nobody likes to plan but those of us erho are here andvolunteer their time. We also Eake a look and rr, e use some tooIs, we
Planning
December
Commission Meet i ng9, L987 - Page 23
Bay on
on
David Prillaman: Therers an area that I want to caII it Crimson
the east side of Minnewashta, the old Wormrs property that abuts
TH 5. Is that going to be served with septic systems?
Barbara Dacy: Yes, that subdivision was processed before we changedour ordinance to a I unit per l0 acre requirement in the rural area.Thatrs the rule that we have on the lot sizes now in the rural area.
David Prillaman: whaE are the lot sizes over there?
Barbara Dacy: Those were Ithere was 2l/2 al]d I think
2 L/2 acxes. I think theof them got as large as 5
per
one
because
and got
smallest
I3-14 years
the I ake
David Prillaman: Thatrs just a matter of curiosity
ago we finally got seerer around most of Minnewashta
changed the zoning ordinance, rde Iook at that and see what it shouldbe. See if it's consistent with the Comprehensive plan. We reviewsubdivisions and we hold public hearings. I don,t think thatsummarizes all that we do. We also make recommendations to thoseparticular ordinances that we've gone through. A whole bunch ofordinances as it relates to community development in the last couple ofyears.
David Prillaman: At this time, do you have developers makingpresentations where therers no sewer and erater available? What is yourphilosophy as far as the Iand use where a septic tank is a requirement
and what lot sizes are you talking about? What percolation tests do we
make and what borings do we make and things of that nature?
Conrad: Good questions. I can't summarize that in a little bit oftime. Basically rrhat werve done, the planning Commission played apretty heavy role in that. Werve updated all our drainage standards,our septic system standards in Chanhassen so if a development goes in
on an unsesrered area, I think 9re now have some controls on the qualityof the septic drainage systems. I think werre confident. wervereviewed that a whole bunch of times. How $re want Ehat rural area, theunsewered area to be developed and we continue to do that. Therersjust continual pressure on that particular aspect of Chanhassen. A lotof developers want to get in and itts a matter of how an intensive use
we want to use for that land.
David Prill.aman: What are the prospects, apparently there aren't any,the prospects for being able to eliminate septic systems as such.
Conrad: Ir11 talk for myself, we basically reviewed...allowi.ng new
development going in simply as residential type of development. Notreal intense, as intensified as within the downtown area but werrepretty confident that werve got Ehe contEols and technology that willaIlor., that type of septic system without a great deal of harm to the
environment.
Planning
Decembe r
Commission Meet i ng9, L987 - Page 24
David Prillaman: My neighbors are sti1l getting settred into Red cedaEcove and they have enough complaints about trying to adjust to some ofthe things. Actually I dontt hear any complalntl. Letis say it thatway-. Everybody has a rittre something that they,d like to hive better.r think Minnewashta parkway needs some attention but on the other handI don't want a speedway because I'm walking aII the time. Thatrs theonly thing and there may be something underway as far as that goes. Ithink those of us who think that things can be the way they rrere 25years ago have got their heads in the sand and you might as well getthem out because that's not going to happen. rhe important thing is tomake progress that everybody can live with. I think that would begenerally the rray I feel about it and I think most of my neighborsfeel .
GREGORY GMI TERKO
Conrad: To begin with, if you could just give us a brief summary ofyour background, work experience, time in the community, that ki;d ofstuff- The same stuff you put on your apprication but give us a quicknarrative of that.
Gregory Gmiterko: I just moved to Chanhassen 6 months ago.a Public Accountant in Golden Valley for the last 9 yearj.
Conrad: Why don't you tell us why yourre interested in theCommission. Why the planning Commission? Why not park andmotivated you to join this happy group up herd?
Gregory Gmiterko: I've always been interestedthe future and stuff like that. I'm concernedgrows and I vrant to be a part...
Conrad: Do you have a philosophy on grovrth. you havenrt lived herethat long but either here or other communities, is there a specificphilosophy you could share vrith us that you are going to apply to theChanhassen level ?
I rrork f or
PlanningRec? What
in planning things forabout how Chanhassen
cleaned up pretty weIl. you canrt stand in the lray of progress but youhave to try and preserve what is being done is not harmiul sometimedown the road.
Noziska: Dave, yourve been in the past been on any of thosecommissions in the city?
David PriIlaman: No.
Conrad: What do your neighbors say about Chanhassen? What do theycomplain about?
PLanning
Decembe r
Commission Meeting
9, 1987 - Page 25
cregory Gmi.terko: In a way I'd kind of like to keeptown. I want it to grow but not grow as much as aIlsubdivisions. Where you still be a part of the city
some atmosphere to it. SmaII toern atmosphere.
it in the snallof the other
but you also have
Conrad: what things do you see that erere good about Chanhassenrsgro$rth r{ithin the few months or bad in our groerth? Anything that irksyou, irritates you about how werre growing that yourve seen?
Gregory Gmiterko: Not really. I like all theof the new owners.. .
new properties. Irm one
Conrad: What do you think about our downtown.
Gregory cmiterko: Itrs different. I didnrt expect it. See I didnrt
see the way it was planned so r^rhen I saw the $ray the streets ended upturning out, I was kind of surprised they ended up going that way.
Conrad: A Iittle bit about timing. We meet twice a month which meanstherers two nights a month out of your life and therers probably thenight before or a couple nights before where you have to review apacket of information so therers a time commitment on the Planning
Commission that we really have to hold you to. Yourre required 758
attendance at Planning Commission meetings and for very good reasons.
Do you see that you have the time to commit? Do you have that type oftime to commit?
cregory Gmiterko: That should be no problem at all.
do you have us about the Planning commission?
any that I can think of.
Conrad: What quest ions
Gregory cmiterl(o: Not
Emmings: Are there are particular issues in your neighborhood or in thecity that have provoked your interest in beiog on this commission?
Gregory cm i terko: I
disappointed j.n the
the development that Irm in
ay itrs turning out.
no w, Irm kind ofn
Emmings: Where are you?
Gregory Gmiterko: Irm in Brook HiII over south of TH 5.
Emmings: And is part of your interest in coming on the Commission
seeing Ehat something thatrs going on there that you donrt like doesnrt
happen in the future?
Gregory Gmiterko: PartIy yes.
Emmings: What is it that's called your attention?
Planning Commission Meeting
Decembe 9, 1987 - page 26
Gregory Gmiterko: Originatly our building was in there first and thenno$r, a mortgage company owned the land and they sold out to anotherbuilder now so I wasn't too happy r{ith the buiiaing that eras going in.
Emmings: For what reason?
GregoEy cmiterko: I assumed that all the houses were going to be builtby that one buiIder... I lras told about the 1ot, that the City ofChanhassen was very particular about moving into that development asfar as building and I iras surprised about how they changed buitders.
Headla: You lived in colden Valley for 9 years?
Gregory Gmiterko: I lived in Hopkins.
Headla: Then you came here just by chance?
Gergory Gmiterko: My grandparents are from hrestern Minnesota and I h,astravering through chanhassen 4 oE 5 times a year for the last 3o yearsand I alirays liked what I sarr.
Conrad: What do your neighbors say about Chanhassen?
Gregory Gmiterko: I haven't really talked to them thatthe lots around us, nobody lives in them so I don't knowthat well. What they said, they aII really like it outnice and quiet out there and everybody is real1y happy.
much. A lot ofthe neighborsthere. Itrs
ROBERT J. PETERSON
Conrad: Do you have a philosophy of growth for Chanhassen?
Robert Peterson: No. I guess I would like to see some controls on it.As Irve mentioned, I,m in the construction business and I seedevelopments and developments and developments, go on and on and on,surely Chanhassen, in my travels throughout the cities and I bid $rorkaII through the metropolitan area, Chanhassen is probably, which Irmsure you know, developing the most of any of them. I guess I wouldlike to knoh, that therers a future for ms in Chanhassen iust as aresident. That this thing just doesnrt get out of hand and startchoking peopLe and things like that. I think the interest of thepeople is probably what my concern would be mostly. whatrs good forthe_city. Whatrs good for the people. That's protably the approach Ierould take and if thatrs the errong approach, then so be it. it's onthe table.tonight. It would be for the peopLe. Irve seen specialinterest in construction just go array. f don,t $rant that. Does thatanswer a 1ittle bi t?
Conrad: What do you see good that's happened out here?
Plann i ng
December
Commission Meet i ng9, 1987 - Page 27
Robert Peterson: I live on 5 of the prettiest acres yourve got here.I hate to choke in around but thatrs rrhy I bought 5 acres. If I wasn'tdoing that, I guess I would have bought a lot. I think if it,scontrolled, itrs just going to be super down the road. I don't knov,$rhat the consensus of the total populous is. Does it want to beanother Medina? Does it want to be an Eden prairie or does it want tobe a Chanhassen? I personally think Chanhassen, at least on the southand west parts of the metropolitan area, is probably the prettiest. Idon't rrant to see that just eaten up with bricks and concreteskyscrapers. Again, I like to be a representative of the peoplersperson. Development has been my Iivlihood aI1 my life and now I Iivehere and rrrith some control itts going to be built.
Conrad: To talk a little bit about the time commitment, we neet twj.cea month every month. Typically we have agendas that take us manynighls until midnight. 7.3A to midnight. Itrs not fun the next day.
Werre trying to structure ourselves away from that but even when hre get
committed to structuring ourselves avray from that, vre get alot of
development pressures and developments trying to fit in and fit on the
agenda that we tend to keep the meetings a little late. For everymeeting therers at least a day of preparation or an evening ofmaterials that the staff is provided. we have an attendance recordrequirement that says yourve got to be here 752 of the time. we needthat consistency. We need a forum i.s realJ-y what we need. We canrtdisappoint people vrho come here for public hearings or developers whoare trying to put sone money into Chanhassen. How do you see yourselffulfilling that commitment? Is that a problem with travel?
Robert Peterson: I work 2 miles from here and I live within a I l/4from here. My evenings are not consumed by a lot of telev j.sion andthings like that.
Conrad: What questions do you have of us?
Robert Peterson: I|II flatter you by telling you that I had appliedfor a variance on my orrrn home that I thought... I was fairlyimpressed. I needed a variance to build there and I worked in EdenPrairie for so long. I had a problem and it worked really good. Barb
handled it for me.
Headla: Every once in a while r^re go until
be a problem for you? cetting up from the
Robert Peterson: I don't punch
though.
midnight, is that going tosack the next day?
a clock. I go to bed early at night
HeadIa:You dontE really see that as a problem?
Peterson: No.Robert
PI ann i ng
Decembe r
Commission Meeti ng9, 1987 - Page 28
Emmings: Is there any particular issue, either in your neighborhood orin th.e community that caused you to be interested in being 6n theCommissio-n? Do you have any built in biases or anything ihat we maybeought to know about?
Robert Peterson: No. Before I accept things, I have to beLieve inthen. If it's something thatrs come up, I iee we're talking aboutbuilding a community center. Things iike that. rf r berieie in thesethings rrrl be behind them rgot. ff r don't, r would surery join themajority but r rri1l voice my opinion. rf thatrs e/rong, r donrt know.I donrt think it is.
Emmings: Has your company does work with this city?
Robert Peterson: Directly with the City, no. We do a lot of thesedriveways. but again, Irm not an orrner in ttre company, Irm worker. AII-I do is bid. I put prices together and that's the jxtent of my job. Idonrt develop any tand. r donrt own any land. r don,t believe therersany conflict at all.
Headla: Wi th your backqround,and roads and stuff, do have away werre going or what should
r.re ta I k
problem
be done
to
The
quite a bit
expressing
there?
about developments
an opinion about the
Robert Peterson: f can be pretty open. Is that rrhat yourre asking?rrd be very open- r guess again, r should emphasize a littre bit ioyou that if it isn't the planning commission, somewhere in this virrageI would like to help to do something. Like I say, Irve got 30 yearsunderneath my bert and rtrr probably put another -is ye.rJ. r think rcan be of some value to somebody and I want. to.
Conrad: what do your neighbors say about Chanhassen?
Robert Peterson: Tim. Erhartrs one of my neighbors. My r{ife is outpicking up another neighbor tonight by the way, an old farmer whoprobabry started with the town, got iost on h1 s way to chanhassen. Mywife got a call at 8:30 and this lady wanted us to go pick up herehusband in Hutchinson. He got rost going to chan. so- she,s out theredoing it now.
Emmings moved, Erhart secondedfavor and the motion carried.
Submitted byCity Pl.anner
Barbara Dacy
adjourn
meeting
the
was
meeting. All voted in
adj ourned .
Prepared by Nann Ophe i m
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
FROM: Barbara Dacy, City planner
DATE: December 30, 1987
SUBJ: Organizational Items
A. & B. Eleclion of Chairperson and Vi ce-Cha i rperson
The Commission decided at the December 16. 1987. meeting tomit nominations to Planning Staff for the Chairperson and
Vice-Cha i rperson prior to t{ednesdayr s meeting. Aalditionalnations at lhe meeLing can be accepted. Staff will provideballots for voting at the meeting.
s ub-
nom]. -
rev i ewed
of appro-
C. Di scussion o! By:Laqs_
Section 7.4 of the By-Laws requires
and adopted at the first meeting ofval is recommended.
that the tsy-Laws bethe year. A motion
D. 1988 Goals
The Commission should review the attached and feel free Eoor add any of the items. The Commission could also decidehave a work program.
E. Miscellaneous
deletenot to
I The Commission needsHRA. Bob Siegel has
to appoint the representative to the
been the HRA Liason.
Ehe Commission, the City Councilnot been completed. Ladd Conrad isfirst meeting on January 11, 1988.
2
3
Due to lhe
a t tenda nce
s chedul ed
vacancies on
schedule hasto attend the
Attached is the progosed 1988 meeting schedule. please
decide as to erhether or noL a second meeting in Decembershould be scheduled.
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN. MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
!,TEII{ORANDUII{
TO: Planning Commission
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Commiss ion
MEMORANDUII{
TO: Planning
FROM: Planning Staff
DATE: December 4, L987
SUBJ: 1988 Planning Commission Goafs
Ordinance No. 28 statses that the Planning
work plan each year. Staff suggests the
sidered as part of the 1988 work program:
I Continue communication bet\deen the public and Planniig
Commission.
2. Continue Comprehensive PIan update process.
COMIIENT: Staff will provide the Planning Commission with
more detailed schedule at the January 20, L988, meeting'
3. Continue evaluation of development ordinances.
COI'IMENT: The Planning Commission meetings are now atEended
by the South Shore Weekly News and the Chanhassen VilIager'
I"lietings are also televised. The Planning Commission should
also c6nsider having these papers provide informatsional
articles on current issues being considered by the
Commission, such as the Comprehensive Plan, or provide infor-
mation on the Cominission or its members.
commission establish a
following items be con-
a
COM}IENT: As was done this past year, the Planning Commission
and staff accumul-ated a list of issues tha! required further
discussion. Some of these resulted in zoning ordinance
amendments. This "housekeeping" function should continue.
The Commission may change the above or add additional items'
so desi,red, Ehe Commission may Ehen motion to establish the
Work Program.
If
r9 88
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,iti!i.aa:a: :
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE. P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
FROM: Barbara Dacy, City Planner
DATE: December 30, 1987
SUBJ: Organizational Items
A. & B. Election of Chairperson and Vi ce-Cha i rpe r son
The Commission decided at the December 16, 1987, meeting to sub-mit nominations to Planning Staff for lhe Chairperson and
Vice-Chai rperson prior to Wednesdayrs meeting. Additional nomi-nations at the meeEing can be accepted. Staff will proviileballots for voting at the meeting.
C. Discussion of By-Laws_
Section 7.4 of the By-Laws requires
and aalopted at the first meeting ofva1 is recommended.
tha! the By-Laws bethe year. A motion
rev i ewed
of appro-
D. 1988 Goals
The Commission should review the attached and feel free to deleteor add any of the items. The Commission could also decide not to
have a work program.
E. t'li sce l laneous
I
2
The Commission needs
HRA. Bob Siegel has
to appoint the representative to the
been the IIRA Liason.
Ehe Commission, the City Councilnot been completed. Ladd Conrad isfirst meeting on January 11, 1988.
Due to t.he
a ttenda nce
s chedul ed
vacancies on
schedule has
to attend the
3 Attached is the proposed 1988 meeting schedule. Please
clecide as to whether or noE a second meeting in Decembershould be scheduLed.
UEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Cornmission
CITY OF
EII[I{HISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUI\,I
TO:
FROM:
Planning Commission
Planning Staff
DATE: December 4, \987
SUBJ: 1988 Planning Commission coals
Ordinance No. 28 states thai the Planning
work plan each year. Staff suggests thesiilered as part of the 1988 work program:
Commission establish a
following items be con-
1 Continue communication
Commission.
between the public and Planning
COMMENT: The Planning Commission meel-ings are now atEended
by the South Shore Weekly News and the Chanhassen Vi11ager.
Meetings are also televised. The Planning Commission should
also consider having Ehese papers provide informationalarticl-es on current issues being considered by the
Commission, such as t'he Comprehensive Plan, or provide infor-
mation on the Commission or its members.
2. Continue Comprehensive PIan update process.
COMMENT: Staff wil-I provide the Planning Commission with a
more detailed schedule at the January 20, 1988, meeting.
COMMENT: As eras done this past year, the Planning Comnission
and staff accumulaEed a list of issues that required further
discussion. Some of these resulted in zoning ordinance
amendments. This "housekeeping" function should continue.
The Commission may change the above or add additional items.
so desired, the Commission may Ehen molion to establish lhe
work Program.
If
r988
3. Continue evaluation of deveJ.opment ordinances.
statwltti JAN
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SEPT
BYLAWS
PLANN ING COMMISSION
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
The following bylaws are adopted by the City Planning Commission
to facilitate the performance of its duties antl the exercisinqof its functions as a cotnmissj.on establ,ished by the City Council
pursuant to the provision of Subdivision 1, Section 462.354
Minnesota State statutes anotated.
Section 1 Duties and Re spon s ib i li tie s Planning Commission:
r.1
The Planning Commission sha1l serve as an
City Council through carrying out reviews
A11 final decisions are to be made by the
L.2
The Planning Commission sha1lthe future development of the
to the plan as they arise.
advisory body to the
of planning matters -City Council.
prepare a Comprehensive Plan for
City and recommend on amendments
1.3
The Planning Commission shall initiate, direct, and review the
provisions and standards of the Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision
Regulations and report its recommendations to the City Council.
1.4
The Planning Commission shall review applications and proposals
for zoni-ng ordinance amendments, subdivisions, street vacations,
conditional use permits, and site plan reviews and make their
reconunendations to the City Council in accordance with the
Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision ordinance.
1.5
The Planning Commission shall hold public
proposals as prescribed by the Zon.ing and
Regul,ar meetings of the commissionfourth weeks of each month at 7:30
hearings on
Subdivi s ion
deve lopmen t
ordinances.
r.6 Establishment of Subcommittees
The Planning Commission may, as they deem appropriate, estabtishspeical subco[unittees comprised solely of their own members.
Section 2 Meetings
2.1 Time
shal1 be held onp.m. at the City the second and
Counci 1
page 2
Chambers, 690 Coulter Drive, unless otherwise directed by theChairman, in which case at least 24 hours notice will be givena1l- members. Regular meetings shall have a curfew bf t:.:iO p.mAlI unfinished business will be carried over to the next regulaPlanning Commission meeting.
to
r
When. tbe regular meeting ilay falls on abe no Planning Commission meeting.
2.2 - Special Meetings
1ega1 holi.<iay, there sha1I
his
48
Special meetings shall be held upon call by the Chairman, or inabsence, by the Vice-Chairman or any other member rith the con-currence of 4 other members of the commission, and with at leasthours of aotice to all members. Notice of a1I speciat meetingsshall also be posted on the off ici.al City tsulletin Board.
2.3 - Attendance
Planning commission members shall attend not less than seventy-five(75*) percent of aL} regular and special meetings held during agiven (calendar) year, and sha11 not be absent irom three (3) ormore consecutive meetings without prior approval 0f the chairnan.Failure to meet this minimum attendance reluirement sharl be causefor removal from the Commission by action of ttre City Council.
Section 3 Commiss ion Compos ition , Terns and Vacancies
3.1 - Compos ition
The Commission shal1 consist of 7shall- be appointed by the council
Four Planning Commiss iontransaction of business.final or official action
voting members. Seven members
and may be removed by the Council.
for the
no
3.2 - Terms and Vacancies
?he Council shal1 appoint seven members to the Commission forLerms of three years. vacancies during the term shall be filredby the council for the unexpired portion of the term. Everyappointed member shall before entering upon t.he charge of hisduties take an oath thar he will fait[fuiry discharg6 the dutiesof his office. A1I members shall serve without comiensation.
3.3 - Quorum
members shall constitute a quorum
Whenever a quorum is not present,shall be taken at such a meeting.
Section 4 - Orqan i zation
4.1 Election of Off icers
A! !!" first meeting in January of each year, the pranning commissionshall holal an organization meeting. At Lhis meeting, thecornmission sharr elect from i.ts membership a chairmin and vice-chairman. This shalr be done by secret uattot. Each member shallcast its ballot for the member he wishes to be chosen for chair-man. If no one receives a majority, balloting shall continue
until one member receives the majority support. Vice-Chairman shal1
be elected from the remaining numbers by the same proceeding.
Page 3
If the Chairman retires from the planning Commj-ssj,on beforethe next regular organizational meeting, the Vice-Chairman shallbe Chairman. If both Chairman and Vice-Chairman retire, newofficers shall be elected at the next regular meeting. If bothChairman and Vice-Chairman are absent from a meeting, the commissionshall elect a temporary Chairman by voice vote.
4.2 - Duties of the Chairnan and Vice-Chai.rman
The Chairman or in his absence, the Vice-Chairman, sha1I presideat meetings, appoint committees from its own membership, andperform other such duties as ord.ered by the commission.
The Chairman sha1l cond.uct the meeting so as to keep it movingrapidly and efficiently as possible and sha1l remj-nd members,$/itnesses and petitioners to preserve order and decorum and stickto the subject at hand.
The Chairman shall not move for action but may second motions.
Section 5 Procedure
5. r Parlimentary Procedure
Parlimentary Procedure governed. by Roberts Rules of Order Revisedsha11 be followed at all regular meetings. At special worksession meetings, and when appropriate, the commission may holdgroup discussions not following any set parlimentary proceduresexcept when motions are before the commission.
Secti-on 6 PubIic Hearinqs
a
b
The Chairman sha11 state the case to be heard.The Chairman shall call upon the staff to present the staffreport. Required reports from each City department shall besubmitted to the Planninq Commission before each case isheard.
The Chairman shall ask the applicant to present his case.Interested persons may address the colunission, qiving informationregardino the particular proposaL.Petitioners and the public are to address the Chairman on1y,not staff or other commissi-oners.
There shall be no dialogue among the commissioners, staffand the public during the hearing.
d
e
f
6.1 - Purpose of Hearings
The purpose of a hearing is to collect j-nformation and factsin order for the commission to develop a rational planningreconmendation for the City Council.
6 .2 - Hearing Proced,ure
At hearings the following procedure shall be followed in eachcase:
7.t Planning Commission Discussion
7.2 - Suspension of Rules
The comnission may suspend any ofvote of the members present.
Matters for discussion which do not appear onbe considered and discussed by the commissj-onand presented by the staff and shal_I be placed
agenda .
the agenda mayonly when i-nitiatedat the end of the
these rules by a unanimous
7.3 Amendments
Amendment of these bylaws may be made at any regular or specialmeeting of the Planning Commission but only if icheduled on themeeting agenda in advance of the meeting.
7.4 - Review
At
be
the first meeting
read and adopted
in January of each year, these bylawsby the Planning Commission.
sha 11
Adopted
ihairman ,
Date
Page 4
(Planning Comrnj.ssion members may ask questions of persons add-ressing the conmission in order to clirify a fact, but anystatement by a member for any other than to question may beruled out of order . )
g. After a1I ne$, facts and information have been broughtforth, the hearing shall be closed and interested lersonssha1l not be heard again unless the hearing is reolenedor unless all interested parties sha11 be allowed Lo beheard again. Upon complelion of the hearing on each case,the Planning Commission sha1l discuss the item at hand andrender a decision. The planning Commission if it so desires,nay leave the public record open for written conunents for aspecified period of time.h. The Chairman shall have the responsibility to inform a1Ithe parties of their rights of ippeal on lny decision orrecommendation of the planning Commission.
6.3 - Schedule
At meetj-ngs where more than one hearing is scheduled, everyeffort shal1 be made to begin each case at the time set inthe agenda, but in no case may an item be calied for hearingprior to the advertised time listed on the agenda.
Section 7 - Miscellaneous
BYLAWS
PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
The following bylaws are adopted by the City Planning Commissionto facilitate the performance of j.ts duties and the exercisinqof its functions as a commission estabLished by the City Councilpursuant to the provision of Subdivision 1, Section 462.354
Minnesota State Statutes anotated.
Section I Duties and Re spon s ib i I itie s Pl-anning Commission:
1.1
The Planning Commission shal1 serve as an advisory body to theCity Council through carrying out reviews of planning matters.A11 final decisions are to be made by the City Council.
1.2
The Planning Commission shaLlthe future development of theto the plan as they arise.
prepare a Comprehensive PIan forCity and recommend on amendments
I.3
The Planning Conmission shall initiate, direct, and review theprovisions and stand.ards of the Zoning Ordinance and SubdivisionRegulations and report j-ts recommendations to the City Council.
L.4
The Planning Commission shal1 review applications and. proposalsfor zoning ord.inance amendments, subdivisions, street vacltions,conditional use permits, and site plan reviews and make theirrecolunendations to the City Council in accordance with theZoning Ordinance and Subdivision ord.inance.
1.5
The Planning Commission shall hold publicproposals as prescribed by the Zoning and
1.6 - Establishment of Subcomnittees
heari-ngs on
Subtlivi s ion
deve lopmen t
ordinances.
The Planning Comnission may, as they deemspeical subcommittees comprised so1-Iy of
approprj_ate, establishtheir or"rn members .
Section 2 I{eetinqs
2.L Time
Regular meetings of the comnissionfourth weeks of each month at 7:30
shall- be held onp.m. at the City the second and
Council
Page 2
Chambers, 690 Coulter Drive, unless otherwise directed by theChairman, in which case at least 24 hours notice will be given toall members. Regular meetings sha1l have a curfew bf 11:30 p.m.AI1 unfinished business will be carried over to the next regularPlanning Commission meeting.
When. the regular meeting clay falls on a
be no Planning Commission meeting.
lega1 holiday, there shall
2.2 - Special lleetings
Special meetings sha1I be held upon call by the Chairman, or in
absence, by the Vice-Chairman or any other member with the con-currence of 4 other members of the commission, and with at least
hours of notice to all members. Notice of all special meetingsshall also be posted on the off icj,al City tsulletin Boaril.
his
48
2.3 Attendanc e
Planning Commission members shall attend not less than seventy-five(75t) percent of aI1 regular and special meetings held during agiven (calendar) year, and shaIl not be absent from three (3) or
more consecutive meetings without prior approval of the Chairman.Failure to meet this minimum attendance requirement sha11 be causefor removaL from the Commission by action of the City Council.
Section 3 Commission Composition, Terms and. Vacancies
3.1 - Compos ition
The Commission sha11 consist of 7shall be appointed by the council
Four Planning commission
transaction of business.
final or official action
voting members. Seven members
and may be removed by the Council.
for the
no
3.2 Terms and Vacancies
The Council sha1l appoint seven members to the Commission for
terms of three years. Vacancies during the term shall be filled
by the council for the unexpired portion of the term. Every
appointed member shall before entering upon the charge of hisduties take an oath that he will faithfully discharge the dutiesof his office. AlI members shall serve without compensation.
21 0uor um
members shalI constitute a quorum
Whenever a quorum is not present,
sha1l be ta}<en at such a meeting.
Section 4 - Orqan i zation
4.I Election of off icers
At the first meeting in January of each year, the Planning Commissionshall hold an organization meeting. At this meeting, the
Cornmission sha1l elect from its membership a Chairman and Vice-
Chairman. This sha1I be done by secret ba11ot. Each member sha1l
cast its ballot for the member he wishes to be chosen for chair-
ntan. If no one receives a majority, balloting shall continue
until one member receives the majority support' vice-Chairman shall
be elected from the remaining nu.bers by the same proceeding.
Page 3
If the Chairman retires from the planning Commission beforethe next regular orqanizational meetj-ng, the Vice-Chairman shallbe Chairman. If both Chairman and Vice-Chairman retire, newofficers sha1l be elected at the next regular meeting. If bothchairman and vice-chairman are absent from a meeting, the commissionshal1 elect a temporary Chairman by voice vote.
4.2 - Duties of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman
The Chairman or in his absence, the Vice-Chairman, shatl presideat meetings, appoint corunj.ttees from its own membership, lndperform other such duties as ordered by the comrnission.
The Chairman shall conduct the meeti.ng so as to keep it movingrapidly and efficiently as possible and sha11 remina members,witnesses and petitioners to preserve ord.er and decorun and stickto the subject at hand.
The Chairman shall not move for actj-on but may second motions.
Section 5 Procedure
5.1 Parlimentary Procedure
Parlimentary Procedure governed by Roberts Rules of Order Revj-sedshal1 be followed at all regular meetings. At special worksession meetings, and when appropriate, the connnission may holdgroup discussions not following any set parlimentary proceduresexcept when motions are before the comrnission.
Section 6 Public Hearings
6.1 - Purpose of Hearings
The purpose of a hearing isin order for the commission
recommendation for the City
information and factsa rational planning
to collectto develop
Council.
a
b
6.2 - Hearing Procedure
At hearings the following procedure sha1l be followed in eachcase:
The Chairman shall state the case to be heard.
The Chaj-rman shall call upon the staff to present the staffreport. Required reports from each City department shall besubmitted to the Planninq Commission before each case isheard.
The Chaj-rman shaIl ask the applicant to present his case.Interested persons may address the conunission, qiving informationregardino the particular proposa I .Petitioners and the public are to address the Chairman only,not staff or other commissi-oners.
There shall be no dialogue among the comnissioners, staffand the publ.ic during the hearing.
d
e
f
page 4
(Planning Commission members may ask questions of persons add-ressing the commission in order to clirify a fact, but anystatement by a member for any other than to question may 6eruled out of order . )
After all new facts and information have been broughtf9t!!r, the hearing shalI be closed and interested lersonsshall not be heard ag:ain unless the hearing is reopenedor unless all interested parties sha1l be illowed Lo beheard again. Upon completion of the hearing on each case,the Planning Commission shal-I discuss the item at hand andrender a decision. The planning Commission if it so desires,may leave the public record open for written colunents for aspecified period of time.
The Chairman sha11 have the responsibj.lity to inform allthe parties of their rights of appeal on iny decision orreconunend.ation of the planning Commission.
- Schedule
At meetings where more than one hearingeffort shall be made to begin each cas-the agenda, but in no case may an itemprior to the advertised time l-isted on
I
h
6.3
Section 7 - Miscellaneous
7.1 - Planning Commissj.on Discussion
is scheduled, everyat the time set in
be calied for hearingthe agenda.
these rules by a unanimous
Matters for discussion which dobe considered and discussed by
and presented by the staff and
igenda.
not appear on the agenda maythe commission only when iniliatedshall- be placed at the end of the
7.2 - Suspension of Rules
The corunission may suspend any ofvote of the members present.
7.3 - Amendments
Amendment of these bylaws may be made at anyneet!ng of the Planning Commission but onlymeeting agenda in advance of the meeting.
7.4 - Review
At
be
the first meeting in January of each year, theseread and adopted by the Planning Comrnission.
regular or specialif scheduled on the
bylaws sha1l
Adopted
Chairman,
Date