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08-3-88 Agenda and PacketAGENDA CHANHASSEN PI,ANNING COMMISSION WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 3, 1988, 7:30 p.M. CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE 1. Comprehensive plan Amendment to amenal the TransportaLionchapter of the comprehensive pran to idenLify the realignmentof TH I01 across TH 5, City of Chanhassen. 2- consider Adoption_of official Map for the realignment of TH101 across TE 5, City of Chanhaslen. OLD BUSINESS 3. Site Plan Approval for a 40,000 square foot shopping centeron 4.86 acres of property zoned BN, Neighborhooi'au6i""",District and located on the north side of f.ake Orive eiit,just east of o-Superette, Hidden VaLley Center. PUBLIC HEARING 4. Conditional Use permit Request to permit gas pumps on Dro_perty zoned BN, Neighborhood Business DisErici ana ro"lteathe southviest corner of Hwy. 7 and Hwy. 41, SuperArn;;i;;. NEW BUSINESS CALL TO ORDER PUBLIC HEARINGS 5.Site Plan Approval Iocated on property and l-ocated at the SuperAmerica. ITEM #6. HAS BEEN TABLED ** Site Plan Approval forservice station located Highway located at the Amoco. for a 3,200 square foot convenience store,zoned BN, Neighborhood Business Districtsouthwest corner of Hwy. 7 and Hwy. 41, at 6 a seLf-service car wash and automotiveon property zoned BH, Businessnortheast corner of Hr.ry. 5 and TH I0l, PUBLIC HEARING 7 Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amenal Section 20-904 andSection 20-615 (6b), Accessory Structures, City ofChanhassen. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OPEN DISCUSSION C:9J ADJOURNMENT -li-/' EHINHISSEN 690 COULTER DBIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937-1900 MEMORANDUM TO: Planning Commission FROM: Barbara Dacy, City planner DATE: JuIy 28, 1988 SUBJ: Comprehensive PIan Amendment., Official Map anal Hidden Va11ey Center Site Plan Review The information for these t,hree items wilI be distributed onMonday evening. As a result of the second informational meetingconducted lrith the property o$rners affected by the realignment ofTH I0I, the cityrs consultants are preparing additional infor-mation so that the Planning Commission can review it during yourconsideration of these items. It is anticipated that the ion-sultanErs information will be received on l{onday and the reportsfor these items will be delivered on Monday evening. CITY OF CITY OF EHINHfiSSEI\I STAFF REPORT P.C. DATE: Aug. 3, 19gg C.C. DATE: Aog. 22, Lggg CASE NO: 88-1 8 8_1Prepared by: UP ite Plan en/v 0c OS C1s E tIJF @ PROPOSAT: LOCA?ION: Partnership 1 Permit for a Convenience Store 3,350 Sguare Foot NE Corner of Hwy. 7 and 4I Chanhassen Suoer900 Second StieetMinneapolis, MN Amer i ca South s5402 Condltional Usewith cas pumps Site Plan Review for aConvenience Store PRESENT ZONING: ACREAGE: DENSITY: ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE: WATER AND SEIIER: PEYSICAL CHARAC. s 2OOO f,AND USE PLAN: BN, Neighborhood Business 1.04 acres Hwy. 7 and Shorewood BN; future HSZ Development RSF, vacant BN; vacant N. s- E- w- Water and The site selver 1s availabl,e to the site. is a fairly level open area Fz (J J TLL APPLICANT: t. Commercial ooa oooN o!t N o()6ro Oo 6 N o oN('l Ntl *2W v RR a lt ./1tl o z q. Eo s T CRE r J PUD- v it R et sofr DRIV w6i #'AO' o g lgqc*J a,l,$L WZ:>.lir flr>LtaAua-utua @ ) I S t =/r l SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 2 APPLICABLE REGULATIONS Section 20-692 BN District as alIows convenience storesa permitted use. without gas pumps in the Section 20-694 allows convenienceditional use in the BN District.stores h,ith gas pumps as a con- Section 20-695District. (5) allows a maximum lot coverage of 65t in the BN 35 foot front yard setback, a 30foot side yard setbacks. the principle structure to have a all trash disposal units be comple-Section 20-1178 requires thattely screened on all sides. Section 2 0 -1191right-of-way andfeet and a hedge SecEion 20-695foot rear yard Section 20-695 maximum height Section 20-1125of gross f loor ( 6-a) requires setback and 15 ( 7-a)of one requ r res s tory . requires a 10 foot strip of land between abuttingvehicular use areas including one tree per 40wall or berm of at least 2 feet. Section 20-IL92 requires interiorwith one tree per 40 feet.property lines to be landscaped Section 20-12),1 requires interiorareas.landscaping ior vehicular use requ i re s area ior I parking space for shopping centers.each 200 square feet Section 20-1302 permits a g 24 square feet and 5 feet i1ot. round low profile sign notn height with a maximum of to exceed tvro per Section 20-1255 allows motor fuel price signs to beto the fuel pump and that they sha11 not exceed fourfeet. REFERRAL AGENCIES Asst. City Engineer Building Department At tachmen t At tachment affixed only ( 4 ) square property whichInsti tutional #2 f3 B ACKGROU ND The subject site is an outlot of awas recently approved for rezoning larger piece offrom OI, Office SuperAmerica H-r,ry. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 3 to BN, Neighborhood Business with the most southerly portion of the site being proposed as a shopping center and tl^ro outlots on the northern portion of the site (Attachment #4). The subject site is the outlot located in the most northeasterly corner of the larger parcel . The whole site is proposed to be serviced by a right- in,/r ight-out from !lwy. ? from the north and by a full intersection from HhIy. 41 on the east side of the property. Access to the site is dependent upon access approval trom MnDOT' The applicant is requesting site plan approval and a-conditional use plimit for a convenienie store with gas pumps. The site is bordlred on the north by Hwy. 7 and on the east by Ilwy ' 41 and wiIl be serviced by an inteinal roadway system which will be ae".fop"a as part 6f tn. Hsz property's development'. The subject site ii I.04 icres and is zoned BN, Neighborhood Business District. The applicant, superAmerica, is proposing a 3,350 square-foot .orrr.'ni.n". "iot.-witsh 6 gas pumps. The proposed site plan loca- tes the convenience store on Lhe south porEion of the site e'ith the parking to the north and east of the building and the.gas l".p'i u"t*6en the parking area and Hlry. 7. The subject site is-""pli"t"a by adjacint neighborhoods by an outlot to the west and future retail center to the south. SITE PLAN REVIE W AND CONDITIONAL USE PERI'IIT ANALYSIS Site Desiqn CircuLation The proposed bulding will be made of a tsan brick and bronze metal roof'wi[h a red and while striped facia. The building and main entrance will face Hi,ry. 7 with a service entrance on the west .iae oe the building ind an additional customer entrance on the east side. The site also conlains gas pumps with a canopy' The canopy will match the facia on the building and will cover three islands with six gas pumps. The islands wiII accommodate two cars on either side for a total of twelve cars at a time. The site is maintaininq the required front yard setbacks of 35 feet from Hwy. 7 and 41 and must maintain a 15 foot side yard setback from the westerly and southerly property boundaries. current site plan shows a 10 foot setback froo the south lot 1ine. The applicant has stated thats the site plan can be adjusted to provide the required 15 foot side yard setback. A revised site plan rrith the increased setback must be provided prior to City Council approval . The Traffic 70 foot wi 11 wide be able to enter entrance or from site either from the west via a south via an entrance hrhich the the Site PIan nevi er,r- 4.!g l-YSj e connects to the HSZ shopping center parking 1ot. Either entrance$rill accommodate traffic entering the site to park and shop oruse the gas pumps. Staff is concerned. with the 70 foot wideentrance. A 70 foot wide entrance without an island or direc-tional lanes will- result in confused traffic movements. TheAssistant City Engineer i{i11 address reducing the width of theentrance and alternative designs in his memo. SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 4 Landsca IN MnDOT has recently notified staff that the right in only from TH7 may not be permitted. MnDOT is in the process of reviewing theproposed access. The applicant has stated that the site plan wirlwork without the access from Hwy. 7 and that the site plair reviewshould continue. If the access from Hwy. 7 is removed, the sub-ject site would stil1 maintain a second access west of t.he gaspumps by maintaining connection by an internal road as showi tothe HSz parking rot (Attachment #5). The whole site would dependon access to Hwy. 41. rf MnDorrs finar decision resurts in the need for any changes tothe site plan, the applicant would have to go througi, tfr. 6i.t.plan review process again. Staff is recomm6nding tiat the appli-cant provide a revised site plan showing hohr the site will bedesigned without access from Hwy. z. A building permit wirl notbe_issued to the applicant until the necessary icless permits fromMnDor are received and the access(es) to the iite are instarled. The.site is providing landscaping around the building andperimeter of the site. staff is recommending thut .i..g.eens beincluded where the four crab trees are propoied on the iest sideof the building to further screen the slrvice area. ALthoughlandscaping is not required on the rear of the building, "oi.,"f9rm. of. landscaping ( trees or shrubs) would break up tie expanseof the building and is recommended by staff. The alplicant isalso required to provide a 2 foot hedge, waLl or berm between astreet and vehicular use area. The applicant has not providedthis on t.he north or east side of the property. Staff is recom-mending that the applicant provide an amended. landscaping planwhich includes staffts recommendations and meets the ieqrli-rementsof the ordinance. Should islands be included in the 70 foot wideentrance, landscaping should be provided for those a1so. Thetrash enclosures must be completely screened on all sides. S i gnage The ordinance permits a ground 1ow profile signsign area of 24 square feet and a maximum heightapplicant is proposing a ground low profile signbe larger than 24 square feet and is higher than(Attachment #5). An amended sign design must be with a maximumof 5 feet. The which appears to5 feetprovided. The SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 5 ordinance aLso restricts gas price signs to be located on the pumps or on the ground low profile sign. Any signage on lhe-anopy would not be permitted. the building is Permitted one wa11 business sign per street frontage and no individual sign shall exceed 24 square feet. The applicant should provide details on lhe proposed walI signs. Parking a nd Rooftop E ipment gas gas The applicant is providing the required number of parking incluiling one handicap space. All- rooftop equipment must totally lcreened from view from any direction. Miscellaneous issue impacts the whole Hsz site, a building per- permitted for SuperAmerica until the final plat Lontract for HSz has been recorded with Carver a revised site south lot line s paces be with a 15 foot to City Counci I Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt Ehe following motion : "The Planning Commission recommenils approval of site PIan Review #88-10 dated July 11, 1988, with the following conditions: Since the access mit wi 1I not be and development County . RECOM},IENDAT ION The site plan shal1 meet use permit approval. The applicant shal1 Provideside yaril setback from the approval. the conditions of the conditional1 2 plan pr ior 3. The applicant sha1l provide a revised landscaping addressing staff ' s comments. 4. The applicant shaLl provide plans for the ground and walt signs which meet the requirements of the 5. No signage will be permitted on the gas canopy. 6. A11 rooftop equipment musts be screened from view direction. plan low prof i Ie ordinance. from any 7. The trash enclosure must be tsotally screened. all conditions of the Public Safety8The applicant D i rector . sha11 meet 9. The applicant sha1l has approved access a building Hwy. 7 and permit until Hhry. 4L, the MnDO? acces s not recerve permits for installed and the final plat and development had been recorded with Carver County. The applicant shall provide an amended site plan showingthe site will be designed without access from Awy. 7. ifsite plan results in changes in the current site plan theapplicant shal1 again go through the site plan pricess. The site plan shal1 be reviseC to show proper channelizationand. signage.to prevent a right-hand tur;ing movement from thewesterly exit. 12. The reviseil plan shall be reviewed and approvedMinnesota Departnent of Transportation piior toplan review and comply with their condilions. 13. Storm sewer calculations sha1l be submitted toEngineer for approval prior to final site plan SuperAmerlca Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 6 points have beencontract Eor HSZ 10. 11. I4. 15. The westerly proposed i,ridt.h of 32 f eet - driveway sha11 oe reduced to a maximum how the by thefinal site the Ci ty revier'7. An erosion control plan shall be submitted to the CiE.yEngineer for approval prior to final site plan review-. 16 The applicant shaIl provide the City withcuted road-t ay easement for the portion Ofwhich serves the hresterly acces! for the a copy LoL 2, subject of the exe-Block 1parcel. 17. Utility service for thissite improvements. property is contingent upon the HSZ Conditional Use p ermi t Analysis The. Zoning Ordinance requires conditional use permiLs for a con_venience store erith gas pumps in the BN Distri;L. section io-zlz otthe zoning ordinance establishes standards that a conditional usepermit must meet for it to be approved by the city as follows: 1. WilI not be detrimental to or endanger the public health,safety, comfort, _convenience or gen6ral weliare of the neigh-borhoo<i or the city. 2. WilI be consistent with the objectives of the city,s compre-hensive plan and this chapter. 3. Will be designed, constructed, operated, and maintained so tobe compatible in appearance with the existing or intendedcharacter of the general vicinity and wiIl n6t change theessential character of that area. 4. will not be hazardous or disturbing to existing or plannedneighboring uses. 5 SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 7 9 Will be served adequately by essentl.al public facj-lities andservices, including streets, police and fire protection,drainage structures, refuse disposal, water and sewer systems and schools; or wilJ. be served adequately by such facilities and services provided by the persons or agencies responsiblefor the establishment of the proposed use. WilI not creaLe excessive requirements for public facilities and services and will not be detrimental to the economicwelfare of the commun i ty. WiIl not involve uses, activities, processes, materials, eguipment and conditions of operation that will be detrimen- ta1 to any persons, property or the general welfare because of excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes,g1are, odors, rodents, or trash. will have vehicular approaches to the property which do not create traffic congestion or interfere with traffic or surrounding public thoroughfares. Will not result in the destrucLion, loss or damage of solar access, natural , scenic or historic features of major s ignificance. WilI be aesthetically compatible with the area. Will not deprec iate surrounding property values. prescribed for certain uses as provided 6 7 8 i0. 11. l-2.!{i 11 meet standarJsin this article. The subject site has residences localed to the west and south and any impacts related to a convenience store with gas pumps need to be minimized. The major issues of concern to the neighborhood isnoise, lights, hours of operation and traffic. Of the generalconditional use standards listed in the ordinance, the followingare t.he most pertinent to the proposal: 1. WilI not be detrimental to or endanger the public health,safety, comfort, convenience or general welfare of the neigh- borhood or the city. The site plan is designed t.o provide safe access, adequatescreening and compatible building desiqn so lhat it willnot endanger the public health, safety, etc. of the neigh- borhood or city. 3 WilL be designed, constructedr op€r€rted, and maintained so tobe compatible in appearance with t.he existing or intendedcharacter of the general vicinity and will not change the SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 8 essential character of that area. The building wi 1I bronze metal roof design and heightgeneral character wi 11 not be hazardous neighboring uses. be constructed of a tan brick wall andwith a maximum height of one story. Theof the building will maintain theof the area. or disturbing to existing or p lanned4 7 't The conditional use permit process permits conditions tobe added to ensure the site rrill not be disturbing toneighboring uses. The lights on the site will be downcastto prevent light f rorn being directed off site. Thecanopy lights are also downcast but to further reduceimpact to the neighbors, staff is recommending that thelights be receded into the gas pump canopy. iraffic tothe site will not be directed through the neiqhborhood tocause a traffic hazard and the design of the whole sitewith landscaping and berms should srinimize any noise. Will not involve uses, activities, processes, materials,equipment and conditions of operation that witl be detrimen-ta1 to any persons, property or the general welfare becauseof excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes,g1are, odors, rodents, or trash. * Th" gas pumps will not cause excessive noise, traffic,fumes, etc. SuperAmerica is typically open 24 hours aday. The applicant will be prepared to iddress concernsabout noise or activities related to the gas pumps andstore. In discussion with the applicant, it ippears thatthe number of users between midnight and 6 a.m.-are smaIland will not cause excessive noise or activity. TheCommission and Council may want to review the site in Gmonths to one year after it is open to determine if havingit open 24 hours is detrimental to the neighboring uses. Will have vehicular approaches to the property which do notcreate traffic congestion or interfere with traffic orsurrounding public thoroughfares. * The internal roadway and access from Hwy. 7 and 41 r^rasdesigned to remove traffic from the neighborhood and toprovide safe access to Ehe site. 8 I0. Will be aesthetically compatible with The building and landscaping wilIpatible with the area. the area. be aesthetsically com- Section 20-388 of the ordinance also provides specific conditionsfor a convenience store with gas pumps which will arso minimize SuperAmerica H!iy. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 9 impac t 1. No 2. No to the neighborhood uses as follovrs: unlicensed or inoperable vehicles shall be stored on prenises. reparr,assembly or clisassembly of vehicles. address system sha11 be audibLe from any residential3No public parce I . Gas pump stacking shall not intrude Gas pump stacking shal1 not intrude area deemed to be into any reguired appropriate by the city setback area. 4 5 No saIes, storage or display of used automobiles or other vehicles such as motorcycles, snowmobiles or all-terrain vehicles. Summary The proposed improvements to the site (building, 1ighting, Iandicaping, gas pumps) are designed to minimize impacts to neigh- boring uses and to be compatible with surrounding uses. The con- ditional use permit process allows the city to establish conditions felt necessary to address any concerns of surrounding properties. R ECOMME NDAT ION Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the following motion: I. No unlicensed or inoperable vehicles shall be stored on premi- ses. No repair, assembly or premises. disassembly of vehicles is permitted on No public address system shall be audible from any residential parcel. "The Planning Commission recommentis approval of Permit #88-10 as shown on the site plan stamped 1988n with the folLowing conditions: Conditional Use "Received JUIY 11, 2 3 4 area deemed to be appropriate by the city into any required setback area. 5. No sales, storage or display of used automobiles or other vehicles such as motorcycles, snowmobiles or all-terrain vehicles is permi tted. 6. The lights on the gas canopy shall be receded into the canopy. 7. The applicant sha1l meet all conditions of the Public Safety Director. SuperAmerica Hhry. 7 and 41 August 3, 1988 Page 10 8 The applicant shall comply with all conditions of the siteplan approval . ATTACHME NTS r988. 1988. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6.'7. 8. 10. Excerpts from City Code. Memo from Asst. City Engineer alated Jul Memo from Building Department dated Ju1Detailed site p).an of whole HSZ site.Showing access to SuperAmerica site without access from Hwy.Proposed s ignage. Reiluced copies of trash enclosure and building details.Application.sire plan dated July 11, 1988.Landscaping plan dated July 1I, I9gg. 28, 25,v v 7 C ZONING (5) The setbacks are as follows: a. For front yards, twenty_five (25) feet.b. For rear yards, twenty-five (28) feet.c. For side yarils, ten (10) feet. (6) The maximum height is as follows: a. For the principal structure, three (B) stories/fofty (a0) ieet.b. For accessory structures, one (1) storyififtcen (15) feet. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 8(58-E), 12-t5a6) Secs. 2G676-2Mg0. Reserved. Sec. 20.692. Pennittcd uses. The following uses are permitted in a .,BN', District: (1) Convenience stores without gas pumps. (2) Neighborhood oriented retail shops. (3) Self-service laun&ies- (4) Dry cleaning and laundr5r pick-up stations. (5) Day care center. (6) Personal service establishments. (7) Professio"e I o{frces. (8) Small appliance and shoe repair shops. (9) Health services. (10) Veterinaryclinics. (11) Utility services. (12) Shspri.t..rter. (13) Private clubs and lodges. (14) Community center. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 1O(S-r0.2), 12-15€6) $ 20s92 #ARTICLE XVI.'BN" NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS DISTRIC'T Sec. 2G691. Intent. The intent of the "BN" District is to provide for limited low intensity neighborhood retair and service establishments to meet daily needs ofresidents. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ r0(5-ro-1), 12-15-86) ( 12r5 $ 20-693 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE Sec. 2G693. Permitted accesaory uses. The following are permitted accessory uses in a ..BN,, District: (1) Parking lots. (2) Car wash (when accessory to automotive service station). (3) Signs. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ to(b-ro3), 12-18-86) Sec. 2G094. Conditional uses. The following are conditional uses in a ..8N,, District: (1) Convenience store with gas pumps. (2) Automotive seryice stations. (3) Drive-in baaks including automated kiosks. (4) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale_ (5) Standard restaurants. (6) Bed and breaksfast establishments. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ t0(5-104), t2-l5{6) State law reference_Conditional uses, M.S. $ 462.9595. Sec. 2G535. Lot requirements and setbacks. The following minimum requirements shall be observed in a ,.BN,, District subject toadditional requirements, exceptions and modificatiorra "", fo*f, in this chapter:(l) The minimum district case of expansion r" ""Xffi;T,"jj:lacres' This paragraph may be waived in the (2) The minimum lot area is hfteen thousand (15,000) square feet. (3) The minimum lot frontage is seventy_five (25) feet, except that lots fronting on aculde-sac shall have a minimum froniage of sixty (60) feet in all districts.(4) lhe minim'.m lot depth is one hundred fiIty G50) feet. (5) The maximum lot coverage including all structures and paved surfaces is sixty-five(65) Pslsg'1- C (6) off-street parking areas shalr comply with all yard requirements of this section,except that no rear yard parking serhack shall be requirei for lots directly abuttingrailroad trackage; and, no side yard shall be required when adjoining commercialuses establishjoint off-streetparking facilities, as provided in section 20-1122, exceptthat no parking areas shall be lermitted irr rny ""q,ri""J"ide street side yard. Theminimum rear yard shall be -fifty (b0) feet for tots aire"tly abutting any residentialdistrict. Side streets side yards shall be a mlrri-rlrn of t*u"rrty-five (25) feet. ( eOther setbacks are as follows: a. For front yards, thirty-flve (A5) feet L276 C ZONING 5 20-7 72 b. For rear yards, thirty (80) feet.c. For side yards, frlteen (15) feet. (7) The maximum height is as follows: a. For the principal structure, one (1) story.b. For accessory structures, one (l) story. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 1O(S-10-S), t2-1b-86) Secs. 2M96-2GZI0. Reserved. ARTICLE XVII.'BH" HIGHWAY AND BUSINESS SERVICES DISIRICT Sec. 2G?11. Intent. The intent of the "BH" District is to provide for highway oriented commercial develop-ment restricted to a low building profrle. (Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ lt(E-lt-1), 12-tb€6) Sec. 2G,712. Permitted uses. The following uses are permitted in a ,,8H" District: (1) Financialinstitutions. (2) Fast food restaurant- (3) Automotive service stations. (4) Standardresraurants. (5) Motels and hotels. (6) Olfices. (7) Retail shops. (8) Miniature golf. (9) State-licensed day care center. (10) Car wash. (11) Convenience store with or without gas pumps. (12) Personal service establishment. (13) Liquor stores. (14) Health services. (15) Utility services. (16) Shopping center. ( t2r7 ZONING $ 20-1125 ( (12) Mortuaries-One (1) space for every three (3) seats. (13) Motel or hotel_One (l) parking space for each rental room or suite, plus one (l) spacefor every two (2) employees. (14) O'frice buildings (administrative, business or professional)_Three (B) parking spacesfor each one thousand (1,000) squar" f*t of noo" """".(15) Public service bu,dings, including municipar administration buildings, communifcenter, public library, m^useum. art galteries, and post office_One (1) parking spacefor each frve hundr'ed (b00) squa.e reet of floor arel-io tru 6n"ipat structure, prusone (1) parking space for each four (41 "e"ts *itnin frUfic assembly or meeting rooms.(16) 9""r""*rorrrl facilities, including golf course, country club, swimming club, racquetclub, public swimming l*^l:k*t, tzol "pu""., pio. one (l) space for each fivehundred (S00) square feet of floor are-a t" th";;;;;p.;tructure or two (2) spaces per (17) Research, experimental,or testing stations_One G) parking space for each five hun_dred (500) square feet of gross floor *", *itfri., ti"'i,iding, whichever is greater.(18) Restaurant, cafe, nightclub, tavern or bar: a. Fast food-One (1) space per sixty (60) square feet of gross floor area-b. Restaurant: 1. Without full liquor license_One (l) space per sixty (60) square feet of grossfloor area or one G) space per two and one ialf (2%) seats whichever isgreater. 2. With full liquor license_One 0) space per fifty (S0) square feet of gross floorarea or one (1) space per two (2) seats whichever is greater. (19) 11g1"i1 stores and service establishments_One G) space for each two hundred (200)square feet of gross floor area. (20) School, elementar5r (public, private or parochial)_One [) parking space for eachclassroom or offrce room, plus one 0) space fo. "u"f orru hundred fifty ObO) squarefeet of eating area including aisles, in any *ari".r"- ", gymnasium or cafeteriaintended to be us€d as an auditorium. (2t) S"5ool, rontor and senior high schools and colleges (public, private or parochial_Four(4) parking spaces for each- classroom o" ofi";oo;;;" one (l) space for each onehundred frfty (150) square feet- of seating area incluairg ui"f"a, in any auditorium orgymnasium or cafeteria intended to be used as an audilorium. (22) Shopping center-on-site automob,e parking sha, be provided in a ratio of not ressthan one (l) parking spacefor each two hundled (2.ois'quare reet or gross floor area;separate or-site space shall be provided for loading and unloading. (23) Storage, wholesale, or warehouse establishments_One (l) space for each one thou-sand (1,000) square feet of gross floor area up to ten thousand 00,000) square feet andone (l) additional space for each additional iwo thou".rrd (2,000) "qrr"r" feet plus one K 1249 C s 20-1179 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE (5) The removal of diseased and damaged trees is permissible. (d) Tlee removal not permitted under subdivision, planned unit development or site plan review shall not be allowed without the approval of a tree removal plan by the city council. lYee removal plans shall include the content requirements as dictated in section 20-11?2 and identify reasons for tree removal. The plan shall be submitted three (B) weeks in advance of the city council at which it is to be considered. (e) This section does not apply to single-farrily and two-family lots of record. (Ord. No. 80, Aft. Vm, $ 7, 12-15€6) Secs. 2Gll80-2G1190. Reserved. DMISION 2. PERIMETER LANDSCAPING REQUIREMEI\TTS Sec. 2Gll9l. Generally. (a) Where parking areas are not eutirely screened visually by an intervening building or structure from any abutting right-of-way, there shall be provided landscaping between such area alrd such rightof-way as follows: (1) A strip of land at least ten (10) feet in depth located between the abuttitrg rightd- way and the vehicular use area which shall be landscaped to include an average of one (1) tree for each forty (40) linear feet or fraction thereof. Such trees shall be located between the abutting right-of-way and the vehicular use area. (2) In addition, a hedge, wall, berm, or other opaque durable landscape barrier of at least two (2) feet in height shall be placed along the entire length ofthe vehicular use area. U such opaque durable barrier is of nonliving material, a shrub or vine shall be planted along the street side of said barrier aud be planted in such a manner to break up the expanse of the wall. A twefoot berm may be used; however, additional lantlscaping at least one (1) foot in height at time of planting shall be installed- The remainder of the required landscape areas shall be landscaped with grass, ground cover, or other landscape treatment. (b) This division applies to perimeter landscaping. (Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, $ 2(8-2-1), 12-15-86) Sec. 2Gl192. Rcquired landscaping adjacent to int€rior property lines. (a) Where parking areas abut property zoned or, in fact, used primarily for residential or .institutional purposes, that portion ofsuch area not entirely screened visually by an interven- ing structure or existing conforming buffer from an abutting property, there shall be provided a landscaped buffer which should be maintained and replaced as needed. such landscaped buller shall consist of plant material, wall, or other durable barrier at least six (6) feet iu height measured from the median elevation ofthe parking area closest to the common lot line, and be located between the common lot line and the off-street parking areas or other vehicular use area exposed to the abutting property. Fences shall be constructed according to the standards in section 20-1018. C ( e 7254 .+-...*rrib.a.-.--.-i.-.r--i.a!iti Sec. 2G1255. Sigrrs allowed without permit. The following signs are allowed without a permit: (l) campaigrr signs, not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet in area. The sign must contain the name of the person responsible for such sign, and that person shall be responsible for its removar. such signs sharl remain for no ronger than seventy.frve(75) days in any calendar year. The city shall have the right to remove and destroy sigrrs not conforming to this paragraph. (2) Directional sigas. a. On-premises signs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The number of sigrrs shall not exceed four (4) unless approved by the city council.b' off-premises signs sha, be arowed only in situations where access is confusing and traIfic safety could be jeopardized or traffic could be inappropriately routeithrough residential streets. The size of the sign shall be apfroved byihe citycouncil and shall contain no advertising. (3) Sigrrs or disprays which contain or depict a message pertaining to a rerigious, nation-al, state or local horiday and no other matter and which are disprayed for a period notto exceed seventy-five (25) days in any calendar year. ZONING $ 20,1255 Informational signs not exceeding sixteen (16) square feet. Integral signs. Motor fuel price signs are permitted on the premises of any automobile servicestation only if such signs are alfixed to the fuel pumps or are made an integral part ofa ground low profile or pylon business sign otherwise permitted in that zoningdistrict. Motor fuel price signs alfixed to a fuel pump shall not exceed four (4) square feet in sigrr display area. When such signs are made an integral part of a freestanding business sign, the sigrr display area devoted to the price component shall not exceedthirty (30) percent of the total sigrr display area of the sign. Nameplate signs not exceeding two (2) square feet. ( (4) (5) (6) (7) (8)Nonilluminated construction signs confined to the site of the construction, alteration or repair. such a sign must be removed within one (1) year of the date of issuance of the frrst building permit on the site and may be extended on an annual basis. One [)sign shall be permitted for each stre€t the pmject abuts. commercial and industrial signs may not exceed {ifty (50) square feet in sign area, and residential constructiou signs may not exceed twenty-four (24) square feet in sign area. O.S.H.A. signs. (10) Signs of a public, noncommercial nature erected by a governmental entity or agencyincluding safety signs, directional signs to public facilities, trespassing signs, traffrc signs, signs indicating scenic or historical points of interest, memorial plaques and the like. (9) 1261 C $ 20.1301 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE collector street as desiSnated as such in this chapter- such sigrr shall be located so asnot to conllict with traffic visibility or street maintenance operations, and shall besecurely anchored to the ground. (Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ S, 12-15-86) Sec. 2G1302. Neighborhood business aud institutional districts. The following signs shall be allowed by permit in any OI or B_l District:(l) Ground low profile business signs. One (1) ground low profile business or institu-tional sign not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet of sign display area shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsign shall be located at least ten (10) feet from any property line and shall not exceedfive (5) feet in height. (2) wall business sign. one (1) wa, business sign shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The totar of all walr mounted sifidisplay area shall not exceed ten (10) percent of the total area of each building w;Iupon which the signs are mounted, but no individual business siga shall iceedtwenty-four (24) square feet in sign dispray area. A wa, business sign sha, not bemounted upon the wall of any building which faces any a joining residentiar districtwithout an intervening public street. (Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ Z, 12-15-86) Sec. 2G1303. Ilighway and general business districts. The following signs shall be allowed by permit in any BH, BG, or BF Districr: (1) Ground low profile business signs. One (1) ground low profrle business sign shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsigns shall not exceed eighty (g0) sqs3r.";"", .o sigrr display area nor be greater thaneight (8) feet in height. Such signs shall be located at least ten (10) feeg gr.m ..,property line. In no case shall any lot contain more thau two (Z) freestanding businesssigns, whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs. (2) $lon business sign. one (l) pylon business sigr', not exceeding sixty-four (64) squarefeet in sign display area, shall be permitted per lot. A pylon business sign greaterthan sixty-four (64) square feet, but equal to or less than eighty (g0) square feet, maybe permitted after securing a conditional use permit. Such signs shall be located atleast ten (10) feet from any property line, and shall not exceed twenty (20) feet inheight. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding business signs,whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs. (3) Wa, business sigrrs' one .) wa, business sign sha, be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a buildiig- The totat of all wall mountcd signdisplay area shall not exceed fifteen (15) perceit ofthe total area ofthe building wallupon which the signs are mounted. No individual business sigrr shall exceed eighty(80) square feet in sigrr display area. A wall business sign may be mounted upon anywall of a principal building. ( e 1268 ( CITY OF EHINHISSEI{ 690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 553.17 (612) 937-1900 Sanitary Sewer the southeast corner of the intersectionTrunk Highway 7. The City Councilon July 25, 1988. ?he site is comprisedsmal1 grove of trees along the easterly MEMORANDUM TO: Planning Commi ss ion FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer DATE: Jo,Ly 27, 1988 SUBJ: Preliminary Site plan Review for Lot 3Seven Forty-One CrossingPlanning File No. 88-10, SuperAmerica Block 1of shall be extended alongsubject lot via the HSZservice wilI remain the Municipal sanitary sewer service is to be extended to the south-lvest corner of this lot via the flSz site p1an. the instaliitionof the actual sanitary sewer service shali remain th; ;;;;;;_sibility of the applicant. ft is recommended that 5-inchcrlameter sewer cleanouts shall be installed at 100-foot intervalson all sanitary sewer services in excess of 200 feet in f..gtt,. Water Service Similarly, a 6-inch diameter watermainthe southerly property boundary for theproject. The construction of lhe waterresponsibility of the applicant. Access This site is located onof State Highvray 41 andapproved the final platof an open field with aproperty bounilary. The coostruction of the right turn lane/exit ramp from eastboundHighway 7 as part of the HSZ site requires a periit from theMinnesota Department of Transportatio-n (Mn,/DOi). The proposedentrance to the . SuperAmerica site has a potential to altow aright-hand turning movement into oncomin! traffic. This willhave to be addressed through .proper chanielization and signageand written approval from Mn,/DOt prior to the final site ltanreview. frzz- PIann ing JuIy 27, Page 2 Commi ss ion 19 88 The plan proposes an entrance width of 70 feet. General designpractice is to avoid large unchannelized intersections that a11or{ the driver to enter and leave at random. It is recoNnended that the driveway width be reduced to a maximum width of 32 feet. The applicant should proviile the City with a copy of the land easement located immediately west of the subject lot which serves the proposed westerly entrance. Grading The proposed plan proposes no major changes to the grading plan which was approved through the flSZ siLe. The construction of the pood on the easterly side of the Iot will be constructed as part of ttre Seven Forty-One plat. t{e find that this plan is accep- table. Drainaqe and Erosion Cont rol The storm water runoff has been proposed to connect to the storm serrrer system of the seven Forty-one plat. storm serrer calcula- tions which verify that aalequate capacity exists to hanille the increased runoff from Lot 3 will be reguired as part of the final site plan review. The plan does not address erosion control. A revised plan which shows the City's standard details and location of the erosion control will Le required as part of the final site plan review. It is therefore recommended that the siLe plan be approved upon the following conditions: 1. The site plan shall be revised to show Proper channelization and signage to prevent a right-hand turning movenent from the lre ster Iy exit. 2. The revised plan sha1l be reviewed and approved by the Minnesota Department of Transportation prior to final site plan review anil comply lrith their conditions. 3. Storm sewer calculations shall be submitted to the City Engineer for approval prior to final site plan review. 4. An erosion control plan shall be submitted to the city Engineer for approval prior to final site plan review. 5. The westerly proposed driveway sha1l be reduced to a maximum width of 32 feet. Planning CommissionJuly 27, 1988 Page 3 6 7. The applicant shall provide the City with a copy of the exe-cuted roadrray easement for the portion of Lot 2, afoct fwhich serves the westerly access for the subjeci parcel. Utility service for this property is contingent upon the HSZsite improvements. !{EMORANDUM TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant city Planner FROM: Steve A. Kirchman, Building Inspector DATE: July 25, 1988 SUBJ: Planning Case 88-10 CUP and 88-10 Site SuperAmer ica 690 COULTER DRIVE ' P,O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317 (612) 937- 1900 CITY OF CHINHISSEN S-ot-r, 1 2 3 One handicap parking space is required. One hour wall required if less than 20 feet Protected openings required if less than 10 Plan Review, to lot line. feet Eo lot line. w3 Ai 1 ':t'2:> ::3:I a4?F21141!ttt\ eulLO-f /1 tu*.dsbtr..kE. '*. F i!F'r. 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'@i., l.l. !, 'G^cru{.',o[nn,. e @@ A @@ 6e o a,,r'. O **. LEFT EilD ELEYAII OI{ o xa i.r.^.c. i,! rr rfi Q ct r. r ru rrr n*rr. C coc. nrrr l-o a cnrr 1 trrcrrmrcrr (. rrrct Lunu m rr G\ nru Lqtrc rr ra oo o 0urlDtxc cnosr rtfi.!_ol r-Y-r I rrrrDarIdua{idorrtcrir{rrlsror .r0 rur I ^n . o(rtrrcrsl.rtj 6trtc, rnn rll €ttv^Ttoxs t outLolNc SEcrloxs x.-0. . .?-.. r.r(lllt! !ll!l* ::_--""'* /.\ TEAN ELEVATIOX\:./o irorr E{0 ELrYlIr,9I,r F I lEg E€,supERAMER.tEAE ___.1 ___l --lI _!: I III @Z-Sa)".s I.AND DEVELOP ENT APPLICATION CITY OF CEANEASSEN 590 Coulter Drive ChaDhasseD, MN 55317(612) 937-1900 APPLICANT:arhhcsss^ J/ ADDRESS fu) 4.'L sf's. TELEPHONE (DAY REQI'EST: Zoning District Change ioning Appeal Zoning variance Zoning Text Amenalnent Land Use Plan Amendment Conditional Use Permit Site Plan Review PROJECT NA},IE (tCr)- PRESENT I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION si^-r- Planned Unit Development Sketch Plan Preliminary PlanFinal PLan Subdivision _ Platting Metes and Bounds Street,/Easement vacat ion Wetlands Permit . f<rror- -S$f<- ER: ADDRES S 9/r',tr S3k2 Code Line) fl7- Zfr() TELEPHONE Sla*-zip Code l1',c ) REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION PRESENT zoNrNG ,bN S);.t^,r ': "."f'.-REQUESTED ZONING 4 s-r-o- SIZE OF PROPERTY /, o*rc5 LOCAT ION REAS ONS /k-7 1 //.^'n/6r-/L FOR THIS REQUEST 4Lt-o.D fv Casrf<rd^-' IEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach //*' regat if necessary I r/s ndu44,L ar'- xx USES PROPOSED This application must be completed in fu.Ll and be typewritten orclearly prinred and must U" i".o.luii.i-oy a1l information andplans required bv aopticauie-a;;;";;;il"nce provisions. Beforeiilii!,iiH.'if;:l:;::::r";:i.:*#'i:F:: :i,r,,i."iii, iii;;;.appricabre to your'ippricationl-" procedural reguirements City Land Page FILING rNS TRUCT ION c. FILING CERT IF I CAIION: 2lt/ Signed By of Chanhassen Development App I i cation 2 The undersiined reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is iamiliai witrr-trre'ir;;u;;;^ior.quiremenrs oapplicable City Ordinances. Gr certifiesf all Appl tcan t e wn Date Thc uadersigned hereby certifies. that the applicant:::::ii:;: ro make this appriciti".-i"...the properry has been herei n Signed By , Date Application Application Fee City Receipt No. Date 4,.' Z lB+Received Paid "{?<i This Application willBoard of Ad j us Lmen Lsmeeting. be and cons idered Appea.Ls at by the thei r Planning Commi ss ion,/ ./--') CITY OF EHINHASSEN STAFF REPORT P.C. DATE: May 18, 1988 C.C. DATE: June 13, i988 CASE NO: 88-8 ZoA Prepared by: Olsen,/v ko hJFa Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Section 20-904 forAccessory Structures PROPOSAL: LOCATION: APPLICANT: r/-...ro'e "'' t/rr/{Y -Y/ ld / €{ 6/t:/8N PRESENT ZONING: ACREAGE: DENSITY: ADJACENT ZONING AND LAND USE:N- S- E- w- WATER AND SEWER: PEYSICAL CIIARAC. : 2OOO LAND USE PLAN: Fz O =(LL Zoning Ordinance Amendment May 18, 1988 Page 2 Accessory Structures At the June 15, 1988, Planninq Commission, the Commission tabled action on this iLem until Bhe ''vhole ordinance could be published. The Commission had tro f urtiler cotnments or corrections on the pro- posed ordinance a.nendment !'or accessory stsructures. RECOMMENDAT ION Section 20-9C4, Accessory S tructures . (a) Detached Garages and Storage tsuildings. No det.ached garages and storage ouildings in any agricultural and residenLial .listrict shall be located in the -required front or side yard. DeLached garages and storage buildings in the RSF and R-4 districts shalI not exceed 1000 square feet in size and sha1l not occupy more than 30t of the area of any rea-r yard. A rear yard is measured as the area bet-vreen the rear wal1 of the principal structure and Ehe rear lot line. Detached garages and storage buildings in the RSF and R-4 Distrlcts having an area up to and equal to 200 square feet in size shall have a rear seEback oE five(5) feet and a side yard setbacK of ten (10) feet. Any deEached garage or stsorage building over 200 L 2 3 BACKGROUND The Planning Commission reviewed amentling the ordinance for accessory structures on March 2, 1988. At that time, the item was tabled until staff could come back with Tim Erhart's comments and additional commencs on lakeshore lots (Attachment #1). The. Planning Commission lranted to have a maximum size for an accessory sEructure ror lots 5 acres and less. AE the May 18, 1988, meeting, the Planning Commission made several changes and directed staff Eo conducE a public hearing. Staff went ahead and advertised for the public hearing; however, we did not publish the proposed language. Therefore, we would like the Commission to verify tshaE what is proposed is consistent with tshe Cornmission's previous <iirection. The Cornmission should then table the item until staff can republish Ehe proposed changes. Planning sEari reccr rnends the Planning Commission adopt the Eollowing notion: "The Planning Commission recomlnends approve the following amend- ments t.o Sections 20-904 and 20-515 (6b) and an addition to tshe definiEion of the City Cotle as follows: Zoning Ordinance Amendment May 18, 1988 Page 3 Detachealdistrict.sprincipal Accessory Structures sguare feet and up to and equal to the maximum of 1000square feet sha1l have a rear yard setback of fifteen(15) feer. and a side yard setbict of-ien (10) feet. garages in a1I agricultural and residentialmust be architecturally consistent with thestructure. A. detached garage or storagesha1I have a maximum heigh[building in the RSF Disrrictof twenty (20) feet. 6 7. Detacheal garages and storage buildings located onriparian lots shalI maintain a setba;k of s.rr.nty_f i.r.(75) feet from t.he ordinary high water mark onRecreational Development Likes-and one hundred fiftv(r50) feer from rhe ordinarv high water *.i[-"r-*iiir"rEnvironment Lakes as designited-on the Official ZoningMap. Detached garages and storage f:uifaings-on iipu.i"nlots may be located in rhe front yard but musi .iiil.inthe front and side yard setbacks. (b) Tennis Courcs and Swimming poo1s. l. No tennis courts _or swimming pools shall be locatedin the required front or siie-yard ana srrait-m"i"iri"a rear yard and side yard setbick of ten tfOl i""t.- 2. Tennis courts and.swimming pools Iocated on riparianlots shalI marntain a setbalk of seventy_five (75)feet f rorn the ordinary high water mark onRecreational Development iakes and one hundred fiftv(150) feet from rhe ordinary high warer ;;;i-;n----,Natural Environment Lakes as detignated on iir" - Official Zoning Map. (c) In any residential district, or agricultural districtparcels with less than 3 acres, n6 storage i:ui faing, -aetached garage or accessory use sha11 be erected or constrrfctedprior to the erecr,ion or construction of the p.i;;i;;i-".main building but may be erected s imu.L taneousiy. =-- - Section 20-6L5 Lot Re quirements and Setbacks 5 b. Accessory structures, 20 feet. Definition of Stora ge Build inq: A structure used accessories usedprincipal use of for the storage of material-sand normally associated wi ththe property. and the Zoning Ordinance Amandment - Acce:;s.rr-; qi:ructures May 18, 1988 Page 4 ATTACHMENTS Planning Commission minutes dated March 2, 1988. Letter from Tim Erhart dated February I9, 1988. Planning Commission minutes dated May 18, 1988. Planning Commission rlinutes dated June I5, 1988. 1 2 3 4 PIann i ng March 2, Commission Meeti ng 1988 - Page 26 -{ {t SECTION 2g-964, ACCESSCRy STRUCTURES. Olsen: What we're proposing to do now is, nurnber l just states thatno detached garage or storage building in any district shall belocat.ed i1 the required front and sid6yard. Number 2 wouta-essentiarry be for RsF and R-4 districts wtrere-i[-rourJ-"iy, rn RsFand R-4 districts detached garages...and then add the remainder ofthis r.rhere it was talking speciiicatry about RSF and R-4 with theL1000 sqoare foor and maiimum of 30t 6r tne r"iivuia;.i;;; that as aparagraph under 2. Then make number 3 as anothei section-under number2 because this wiII be-pertaining to the RSF and R_4 districts.Number 4 rhen is also for rhe maiimum height "iir u" ;;;ii; to rheRSF and R-4 district. If you feel that you $rang these also for theother districts, we can alio add that under nurnber 3 that we added formultiple famiry commerciar, industriar ar"t.i.ii ititi.g-ti;.r rheyshall have a rearyard setback of 10 feet. Essentially werve got oneas a condition for arr districts. Tlro l.rourd be RSE u-na n-a. tn.."would. be multiple family, commerciat and incusiri"i Ji"tii.i". Thenwe tried to further define a tennis court and swimming pool, wherethey can be located and where they can not. when you l-oof it tneordinance now they are considered'an i"-"""ory use but then you use :l:.-?::::::ry-strucrure setback so we came up with specificrequrrements for those. (c) is the same- Conrad: What did we decide? City Council didn,t like the l, qAO foo'building r i ghr? olsen: They wanted different setbacks and Bill is here to be sure. Emmings: Thatrs been incorporated already. Olsen: Right. Conrad: They 1iteraIlya garage or a build j.ng them but that was what said in either point Ias large as L,600 feet.they said. or 2, they did not wantNot that I agree with Dacy: They did talk about 809. Conrad: What are you thinking Bill? Let me give you our logic,r think when we went-througtr it a month or two ago. Tom didn't carlon me for our J.ogic during our meeE.ings so r'11 ;hare it vrith youl--w.really took a look at what it \,rould take for a 3 car garage and alsowhat it wourd take to have a.littre shop in there and-lnei steve aaaeaa 10t fudge factor or something and we iame up wilh r,oog feet. webasicarly rooked at garage stalrs to be a key there. r think g00 feetprobably would work too. I don't knor., if th-ere," u gr.ui aleal ofdifference between 800 feet and r,aou feet in our miia uut-wtrenr heard city council tarking, r heard numbers that erere significantlylower than lhe 1,006. Bill, do you have any comments? anytning to'guide us on this thing based on ihat you heard? Planning March 2, Commission Meet i ng 1988 - Page 27 ( Councilman Boyt: I remenber saying at the meeting, when we firstdiscussed this and I think whaE I could live with is if the outbuilding $ras never to be larger than the main structure. In a sensethat $re don't require a house, the ninimum house size is less thanI,000 square feet. I'd like some means of avoiding the situation where a person has a 850 square foot house and I,q6g foot outbuilding 15 feet from the lot line. I have a really serious problem and will Probably vote against this if we come up with L,Obg squaxe footbuilding and put it closer to our rear lot line than rre no$, allov, a 850 square foot house to be. I think that's inappropriate. Headla: What about a little Sears sheet metal utility shed? Emmings: Conrad: Emmings: That I s under That I s under That I s why 2gg. 2gA so there's no problem with that. that in there vras that concern for that. { we put Councilman Boyt: If I might just comment one more thing about thatitein, when I think of a s j.ngle car garage, which is t^rhat I had envisioned abooE 2Ag square feet to be, and see that 5 feet from a back lot line, I get nervous about that too. What I see as an outbuilding is something where a person can store a lavrn mower or a few tools and I knoe, staff vras going to check into what a typical size of an outbuilding is. what is a typical size of an outbuilding? Olsen: It's always an 8 x Lg, Lg x L6, L0 x 12 and he said vp to 2gg. Then I always checked around erith other cities and 2gg $ras the cut-offpoinE for their small buildings and 1,060 was the typical maximum. Dacy: Thatrs in the Bul. lding Code too. The L,Agg. Councilman Boyt: That the l,qgq :.s a maximum? Dacy: For a garage. garage also. Tim Erhart had come up with l,qgg for a 3 car olsen: we first had 809. up rri th l, ggg. really here to Dacy: Then Tim came Councilman Boyt: I rm listen so Eake it away. Dacy: Thatrs the concern about the accessory building be larger the princi.ple building. I think that goes right in with (c) andlogical extension of that as far as when an accessory building isconstructed. I think that's easily accomodated if the Commission wants to pursue that. The only exclusion to that would be if you in an A-2 area and your barn wouLd be obviously larger than yourbut that can be excluded. than is a L $rere home Planning March 2, Commission Meet i ng 1988 - Page 28 { Conrad: Emmings: they I re Headla: The districts that 2 Conrad: Is there anythink the 5 acres. . . Tim r.rants to expand 5 acres or less. And I think we'lI want to make that I0. RSF and R-4. Ietter to RR-I and A-2 if some of the othercity.separa tely area. to fall under the appl ies that in to, his Conrad: I agree with Tim in thosethat are residential in nature. I Emmings: I think the record shouldmakes much more sense when he,s not lots that we're a 1I owi ngI think we should. Earm lots are approximatelyare below Ehat. If you would reflect that we all think Timhere than when he is. Iogic we can use? r hear grhat you're saying. I Iarger a9ree. Conrad: Hers much more agreeable. 1:19Iu: Which point are we going Eo discuss here? we,ve gotdifferent ones. rf we'r" going [o talk about Tim,s meno; i don,tthink it should be 5 acres. I think it should be 10. Look on thewest side of Minnewashta, you can put up an awfur big building thereand it just doesn't fit inlo the aiea. ^r'd be aree"iel-ui-it rot rreally thing that,s for the good of Chanhassen, that,i th6 way itshould be. It Dacy: I think the 5 acres, all the Hesse5 acres and all the cluster subdivisionsrai.se.it to LO, it rrould probably i;;i;;"described sporatic parcel3 throuaho;a- the Headla: So wetd knock all but one out in our Dacy : ma x imum Your area is zoned RSF so you're goingof l,0gg. Headla: Even though I've got I0 acres? Dacy: Riqht. What werre.proposing to do is regulate it by zoningdistrict. Timrs concern is out in the iural area. your zoneal RsE.You have 10 acres. you have a max j.mum of I,OAO "qour" iu"t. Headla: That accompJ-ishes what I lranted. Emmings: It's funny about 5 acres, it just kind of feels right butdon't really know why. Conrad: It feels right but Ithe I0 but I do like the 5. didn't have a good logic. I didn,t like 3, now itts assumedbuildings is left out of I {L Emmings: I'm wondering why in the old numberunder 2, it says detached garages but storage Planning March 2, Conmission Meet i ng 1988 - Page 29 {there. Is there a reason for that? Dacy: Yes. Our concern was tha! we had a difficult time trying to enforce that condition on, for example 120 square foot seats buildingor one of those. When we talked to Tim more about it, he said that was his main intent also, was to make sure that the garages at least looked the same as the house then. Ehmings: How about saying detached 260 square feet? Because if they'rewouldn't we want them to be? and storage buildings over to build a bigger building, garages going Olsen: A lot of times those are still polebarns. the RSE?Ernmings: Can they build polebarns in olsen: so you have a 75 foot setback for any structure. { Emmings: Yes, but my frontyard is away from the lake and saying I canrt build a garage back there erhen the road is my car comes j.n there. Irve got. to gut my garage now... you're back there, Headla: IErs the old story, which is your fronEyard. Dacy: The ordinance defines the frontyard as Ehat part that abuts the street. Your case, because you're on a private easement. olsen: You still have to be You could still, if You houseyour garage in the front. back and that's the frontyard. feet back, you could stil.1 have 30 feet was 50 Dacy: Are Emmings: you I tm calling your lakeside your front? asking. Dacy: Yes. Olsen: But when it' s a garage. . . Dacy: You do need the thicker walls obviously but Building Code PUTPOSeS. Enmings: The other thing Itve got is, number l says no detached garages or storage buildings in any residential district shall be located in the required front or side yard. Down under tennis courts and swimming pools, yourve Put in some special language for riparian lots. Again, not I'm getting kind of worried about my own situation here a IittLe bit but it does come to mind. This vrould prevent me from building a garage on the side of my house away from the lake without a variance, would it not? what is my rearyard? Dacy: The Iakeside. { Planning March 2, Commission Meet ing 19 88 - Page 30 { Emm ing s : my front garage. This is by Dacy: The ordinance defines the lakeside asclose as 75 feet. Between 75 feet and yourgarage. a rear but it can't be ashouse you could have a in the front andIogically build rny don't have ago back and look at says I can't build a detached garagethe street but that is where I wouid Olsen: You canrt have it within Erunings: setback of the fronE. got to get a variance. in the frontyard, youill need a What you're you want to saying builil a 1S the Irve garageDacy: Ifvariance. Emmings: But why should EIlson: Hoe, many people Conrad: euite a few, Emmings: Everybody who I ives Dacy: Especially in the older Headla: We talked about thisdefinition of a fronEyard andthat for me. we make that necessary on riparian lots? wi 1l that affect? on a lake. platted areas. before. We sti 11you were going to _( Dacy: The ordinance defines frontyard as that part of the lot thatabuts the public street. Headla: But thatrs not good enough. you rve got double frontage 10ts.Yourve got lakes. Dacy: We define a double frontage 1ot also. you've gone to the trouble do$rn for tennisdistl.nguishing what you do r^rith riparianthing for garages and storage buildjngs? Ennrings: My point is this,courts and swimming pools oflots and why not do the same Dacy: That I s fine. Olsen: On riparian lots? Emmings: yes. Olsen: The Shoreland Ord i.nancethat vrhat yourre talking about? Emmings: No itrs not. prohibits that within 75 feet. Is L Planning March 2, Commission Meeti ng 1988 - Page 31 r Dacy: AIl werd be doing is repeating vrhat the Shoreland Ordinance says. Emm ing s : shou ldn I t EI Ison: j ackets Conrad: who live AlI I want be al lowed don't lakes to in say the need a lot and 262 of is something Iikel on a riparian lot they rearya rd . Dacy: Your intent is to prevent the ability of somebody to construct some type of storage buiJ.ding between the principle structure and the Iake? Emmings: And to allow it in the frontyard in that si tuati on. back that has IifeYou don't vrant a Sears thing in thein it and things like that? We on of variances coming in here withthe people in Chanhassen live on peop I e 1akes. Emmings: Irve probably got 25A feet down to the Iake fron my house.I dontt have any trouble getting back 75 feet. Not that I would everbuild a building there. No one in their right mind would but vrhycanrt I just get a permj.t to build it in my frontyard in thatsituation? Why do I have to get a variance? Dacy: Let me explain this. The intent to permit an accessorystructures in the front and side yard is, in the case of the sideyardto not block and access between two lots. The frontyard is to maintain a safe distance betr,reen the public right-of-way and any typeof struct.ure for safety reasons. Like in your area along Horseshoe Curve or the Red Cedar Point area, Ehere are a lot of those older garages that are right on top of the road. I think everybody knowsthat thatrs not the best safety type of sj.tuation also so this accessory buildings not being able to be located in the frontyard, thatrs a typical requirement in most ordinances. Maybe it should belooked at through a variance procedure in some special cases because Ithink to allov, it outright may be creating more problems than it's wor th . Emmings: Just think for a m j.nute. If we aIlor,/ed it on a riparianIot, when they come in for the permit they're going to have to meetall the setbacks. If you allow it j.n the frontyard on a riparian lot,yourre not gojng Eo run into the Red Cedar Point type of situation. Conrad: Steve, why donrt we table thj.s? There are a lot of things here and I guess Ird like to have staff come and bring it back nexttime that vre meet and work in these consideraE.ions and just Ehinkabout it a little bit more in terms of riparian and that kind of s Euf f . L {Emmj.ngs: I the rest of all kind of like, to think that Tim can even had some think we us seem speak about Tim I s, but good thi ngs that could Planning March 2, Commission Meet i ng 19 88 - page 32 r be incorporated too. Dacy: I understand heeither. Headla: Dacy: wonrt be able to make the meeting on the l6th r donrt think we lrant outbuildings on the rakeside allorrabre. Wer 11 bring it back. HeadIa moved, EmmingsAccessory Structures.seconded to table action on Section 20_9q4,AII voted in favor and motion carriee. { REVIEW PROPOSED STATE ENABLING LEGISLATION. Dacy: If I could iust bring you up_to_date where it is with theIegislature. rt i; ln commltle. iio,i-rr,"t r understand now andvarious communities_ll": p..l testifying pros and cons on many ofthese issues. My main intent of brinqing this to your attention is sothat yourre aware of this proposed tii-t"c.us" it does have in someinstances, very significanl imptications on hor., pranning commissionswill be operating in the futurS. Minnesota r think is inique intaking this approach of rooking at ii;;-enabring regiiritio=n and doinga compLete revamp. Looking at other raws like Lr" lr.tropoiitan r,anause pranning Act and tooking at how cities relaie rr".iiI""rry withcountiesr etc.. Eor exanpl6, it you-noted on page 30 for condi.tionaruses, r'r1 just bring the- exampre to your attention. sor0ething thaE'seasily idenEi.f iabre- Alr.the ranguige that,s underrined is what isbeing proposed. whar is being prop6"",i-ii tr,"t .i;;-;i;;;;r;commission is getting a titrl; irorl authority on ""naitionui ,="permits. what i.t's saying is that the city torn"it r.,u=-to-.on"rau,that pranning comrnissi6n'6 recomm"nJ.iio" and over two-thirds of thecouncir must abide by. Ehe planni.ng commission,= .".o.*"nJu[ion o. uy utwo-thirds vote override thaE. s6 ror example, that is diiferent thane'hat was raw up until lhis time. another issue in here, this doesnrtaffect the -planning commission necessariry bur the ";;;;sition or tneBoard. of Adjustment and Appeals. lihat's being propo""i- i=-lf,.tcouncirmembers are not goJ.ng to be permitted io sii on the soard ofAdjustments and Appeals. That is current practice in chanhassen sothat takes a different approach. There are other rarger issues thatere could go on and on about as far as consiste""t ;;[;;;.---comprehensive plans and zoning ordinances and so on, but again, mymain intent vras to get you familiar with this so you unaeiilanO thatthis has direcr impacr on how you oeciae is"r".-"6a-d;t';;; can andIdhat you canrt do. If you would like, I could have Roger'Knutson comein and hiqhliqht the chinces a rittr.e bit more. Becau6e on erhy theydid this or why they did that, I'm not up to speed on. I don,t knowthe history or the rational but Roger could gii,re Ehat. {_Headla: One point I,d like him to corunent on is Chanhassen goj.nghave liabirity on us then rike they cover the councir? Right now to they February 19, 1988 Tim A- Erhrn 775 West 96th Street Chaska, Minaesota 55318 Pl anni nq ommr ss I on Subject: Accessory Building Restriction in Residential Areas Ue recently discussed applying restrictions to the size of accessory buildings in areas zoned relidential . The result was that the Planning CJmmission recommended that the sizes of accessory buildings be limited to 1000 square feet in the RSF district. I believe the same good reasoning applies to all residential areas including itroie ln the A-2 arid nn-t distrlcts. I bei ieve residential areas in rural districts can adequately be defined by all lots which are 5 acres or less in size. lihat makei theie sub-divisions similar to those found in the RSF district is that even though the lots are larger, they are clustered and form a nei ghborhood. For example, how would it look if people in Hesse Farms, Pioneer Hi11s' and Riley Lai<e Uoods started building pole barns? I therefore recommend that we inclirde the restriction on accelsbry building size to all Chanhassen lots which are 5 acres or less 'in size. Secondly, I bel ieve !,e are already experiencing a problem where people. build detachei-garages (accessory buildings) jn resjdential areas which do not arch i tectu-ral 1-y maich the frimary strutture (house) and are. tota.l.1y out of sync with the-esthetic vaiues of the neighborhood. These buildings, most oi which are metal , prove to be terribly unsightly- Homeowners have invested a lot of money into building archjtecturally pleasing and conform- ing homes and expect to have this investment preserved. Therefore, I also recommend that any accessory structure larger than. 200 square feet on lots of 5 acres or leis in s'ize, must have exteriors made of the same material as the primary structure. Again, th'is should apply to a1) residential districts, RSF, RR-l and A-2. \ .,,,/^7 Tim-A. Erh a rt- { Planning Commi ss i on May 18, 1988 - page Meeting 2g system capacities asprocess. part of the plans and specifications review 5 The road profile shall be revised to show athe Minnesota Department of Transportation'ssubmitted for approval by the Cit| nngineerspecifications review process. The proposed right-of-way shall be revised to a 60 foot right_of-waywidth, and sha1l maintain a 60 foot radius at the end of tf,ecuL-de-sac as per ARticle 3, Section 2g_57 (b) of the Chanhassensubdivision ordinance. _The proposed r ig ht-oi-*iy --t uir -t.-lr "t t"a tothe edge of outlot s and submitted to tie city siuti u-piun'signifyingthe amendment to the right-of-way. A11 utilities shalI be jacked underneath Audubon Road. Subdivision is contingent upon the MUSA line being approved by theI'letropolitan Council. voted in faovr and motion carried. 6. 7. 8. A11 landing zone which meetsguidelines and shall beas Part of the plans and APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Erhart moved, wildermuth seconded to approve the Minutes of the ptanningCommission meeting dated May 4, 1988 ,iif, tf," change noteJ on page 52 byBrian Batzri regarding clarification on the voting outcome for the motion.A1l voted in favor and the motion carried. ACCESSORY STRUCTURE REGULATIONS, DI SCUS S ION . Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Emmings: we had a rong discussion around this r.rhere r said, why wourd rcome in for a variance when r qrant to build a garage in rny irontyard butnothing was changed in here to reflect any of inatl orsen: That's where we discussed it. The frontyard, you stirl have the30 f oot setback. That i.ray you wouJ-dn I t have to io a- vlr iance. Emmings: I'ly point then and r read it and iE was kind of confusing somaybe r havenrt made myserf crear on it. My rearyard on a ripariin lotthis would say that r can,t buird a llarage i. *v-iiontyi.a ,r,i"n is theside of my house away from the lake. The street side which is the rogicalplace for it- r'ry point is this, why don't_we say that on riparian i.i;;--no detached garages and storage uuiloings in re"ia"nii"i aisiri"ts sn.iibe l.cated in the front or side yard except on riparian 10ts or somethingrike.that. The point being, trren r "a., c6me in. ana-simpiv-g"t a buirdinipermit rather than having Lo go through rhe "uiiin".-p.;;e";.Dacy: But you still have to meet the front setback. Planning Conmi ss i on May 18, 1988 - page Meeting 2L Dacy: So yourre looking at either 7 or 8? Emmings: I don't know. I was trying have a better idea. No, 7 stays just to modify number I but maybe you like it is. though is, that v,rou Id be the section. werre trying a serparate rule for each numeral. Emmings: Then do you r^rant to add another number? Dacy: Number 7 pertains to riparian lots. Dacy: What I'm sayi ng with each numeral have Erhart: why did you come up rrith objection to having Ehe detached Batzli: I'm los j. ng the neighborhoods I'm from, betr,reen the house. to begin with? what the front or side of number 1 garage in was the the home ? Dacy: That's standard practice in most zoning codes. chain of thought here. I guess from the the garage is aj.ways detached and it's always wildermuth: Itrs on Ehe side yard or rear. Batzli: No, front. Emmings: Where I gre$, up it. was always rear. Batzli: It depends. If yourre in the City and you're going down the alley, itrs always in the backyard but in a lot of more ruralized, just kind of places Irve seen, quite a few garages are in the front yard because it's right up against the road and you've got the house set back. Erhart: I think yourve got to remember where we started on this thing. Itstarted about six months ago when some guy came in here wiEh 7 acres on RSF district and wanted to put up 36,900 square foot barn. Somehow now werve got this around to r"re I re talk j.og about accessory buildings. In todayrs marketplace, no one builds a single famiJ,y house in a small lotwith detached garages. Irm not even sure that thaErs an issue- I almostthink by adding number I that we may create a problem that really doesnrtexist. Erhart: I would think the y who se would want to put it in the rear. Batzli: It depends on street i.t is. Emmings: I alr^rays have to meet every setback. I know I have to meet thesetbacks. I just wonder why I have Eo go through the var j.ance procedure. No one builds their garage between their house and the lake, I donrtthink. Batzli: It may be that there are smaller homes located about that donrt have a garage. Planning Commission May 181 1988 - Page Meeting 22 Emming:Itrs not a bad general rule. Right. Exactly. For separation of buildings and the street... Did you have anymore on that Steve? I want to get back to this. Dacy: Erhart: Emmings: No. r guess r'd like to find a way so if a person on a riparianlot $rants to buird a garage, they can come in for a permit and make surethey meet arr the setbacks but not have to go through the variance. Thereisn't any doubt that if r come in as a ripaiian rot owner and r want Eobuild in my frontyard, I'm going to get that variance. The City,s notgoing to make me build between the lake. Theyrre not going to make me putit in the rearyard. Dacy: Irm not going to say always but youtre chances are j.ncreased. Emmings: rsn't this one of those situations $rhere we can ret staff handleit through the permit process rather than having to make a person gothrough the cost and expense? Dacy: What I was thinking of to discuss vrouldthat on ripar j.an lots the detached garages, doonly to detached garages as opposed to storage Emmings: I don't know. be Eo add on a sentenceyou just want to exclude it buildi.ngs? Dacy: Therers an aesthetic standpoint. Emmings: r r"rould say garages. r guess r wouldnrt mess with the accessorybuildings at this point. I wouLd say garages. Dacy: That detached garages may be located in the frontyard but it mustmaintain the front and side setbacks. Erhart: I think with your 4 and 5, the way itts coming out right now,itrs not getting accomplj.shed what I see accomplished i.ncluding what I'mconcerned about. That js, itrs a situation where essentially asubdivision, even though it,s in the A-2 or RR district, is essentially agroup of small lots. Generally wit.h our current ordinance the tendenayis to do 2.5, economically that size. They come out just like an RSEsubdivision and the concern is that on these bu j.ldings, the houses areuniform. Agai.n, Iike anything else it's to avoid a situation where theycome in and puE in a metal building in the middle of a residential area.The way it reads now is it's kind of mushy so what I'm saying is, maybewhat the real cutoff here is vrhen do you get out of this subdivision Dacy: An exanple of that is in the carver Beach area. Those order areasand typically they are within the 30 foot setback and we do have theability to put them through the variance process so we can evaluateexactly close that it should be. I realty recommend that you keep 1inthere because then Iaw, even with the previous ones, standi up in- thisbook. Planning Commission May L8, 1988 - page Meeting 23 cluster and when do you get into the rural area? I'm not opposed to metal sheds at all in the rural areas... Dave r^rould argue that noE on I0 acres.5 seems reasonable to me. Bluff Creek, the Hesse Earms, a lot of these where youive got 100 homes coming in there putting 2 L/2 acres, they areaLL 2 L/2 to 3 acres subdivision so when yourre done there is thetemptation to put that metal shed when somebody has built a $3gA,Ogg.qghome. I would rather adjust this acreage thing down to 3 acres if youhave a concern about this bigger building rather than making it aconditional use because what happens in conditional uses vre forget whaEthe intention was. EIlson: Why metal sheds? don I t. you We spent make the point that this is trying to eliminatea little bit on that one before. to do is erase the Change 5,acres must be acres is toolot size sothis Erhart: We can combine all of this in one. What I,d likeanything belo$, 5 acres they can not be allovred at all andcondition use permit. Secondly, make them argicultural .detached garages on all residential, al.l lots Iess than 5architecturally consistent. Now if the Commission feels 5big, rather than making this mushy, I'd rather reduce theeverybody feels comfortable that wetre doing a service forsubdivision. Does that make sense? Emmings: Where Irm confused is if the detached garage, obviously thatdoesnrt include accessory buildings. . . Erhart: The !{ay you have it now, det.ached garages. you just restrict itfor residential districts. A-2 I assume is not at all. Dacy: No. I used the term in aII residential districts. EIlson: Even A-2, thaE's residential. Erhart: I see. So you are including the A-2? Dacy3 Maybe you can clarify it to make sure detached garages inagricultural, and residential districts must be architecturally... Erhart: I think you should say 5 acres or less. On lots 5 acres Batz1i: If a guy has 246 acxes Ehen who.cares what his detachedlooks Iike? Erhart: less.Do the same as you did in item 4. you use the term 5 acEes or alL or Iess. garage Dacy: Ellson: to the Dacy : Itrs sti 1I If itrs house. the perceptj.on of archj. Eectural going to be a garage, you have Eo cont i nui ty. have walking d i s tance The 5 acres really came for the storage buildings. Planning Comm j. ss i on May 18, 1988 - Page Meeting 24 Erhart: Werre differentiating between detachedbui.ldings? Dacy: Yes, because the storage buildings, thenand all that business and you really shouldn't Erhart: Does this change then allow us to putless than 5 acres? garages and accessory you I re getting into metalbe... up metal buildings in lots Dacy: We are not saying anything about metal buildings. Erhart: Are we differentiating between accessory structures? Dacy: Your re differentiating between detached garages and storagebui ldings. Emmings: Do rre have definitions for each of those in the ordinance? Dacy: we have a definition of a garage and building as a structure. Erhart: what about the guy who comes in and saying r'm not proposing thatI build a detached garage. I'm proposing to build a storage shed. Emming: That Irm going to put my car in. Erhart: Yes, so all of a sudden this doesnrt appty anlrmore. Dacy: Vle do have a definition of a garage. Erhart: Alr r $rant to do is prevent someone from coming in and saying rimbuilding a L,2gg foot metal building. Batzri: on accessory structure it doesnrt have to be prirnary...so he canput up an accessory structure without coming in for action. Emmings: We do have accessory structures? Dacy: Right. Erhart: why canrt we just say on item 4, change it to say in the A-2 andRR district no detached, or in alr these districts, no deiached garage oraccessory structure? Dacy: Because yourre forcing people to, instead of going to MontgomeryWards or just getting those.... EIIson: The little ones, you're telling t.hem Ehey canrt have Ehem. Erhart: I'm saying no accessory structure shall exceed IrAAO square feeton lots 5 acres or less. Change the words from detached garages toaccessory structures. Dacy: Start over. On 4 or 5? Planning Cornmission May 18, 1988 - eage Meet i ng 25 Erhart: on 4. rn the A-2 and RR districts no accessory structures sharlexceed L,AAg square feet. Dacy: That r s there. Erhart: Yourre using the term detached garage. Dacy: And storage bui ldings. Erhart:- .okay. r'm satisfied. r guess r was thinking of storage buildingsr rras.thinking of those little tiny buildings but yoirre using the term i.odescribe all of them. Okay, Irm satisfied. BatzLi: Ird rather see the terms defined than coming up i{ith detachedgarages and storage building which isntE defined anywhere. Enmings: Accessory structures seemed broad to me. Dacy: storage buildings are risted as an accessory use in the district.Storage building is an accessory structure. Emmings: If accessory structure is the broadest term, why noE use it? Batzli: We have pools under that. parking lots. Dacy: Thj.s got back to your original discussion between useand we beat each other over the head aod thatrs why we camestorage. What are rve trying to regulate? Storage bu j.Idings Theyr re all accessory structures, yes. Erhart: What happens liith a horse barn? Dacy: Werre calling those a private stable. Batzli: Private stable would be an accessory structure. Dacy: Private stable is a conditional use. Wildermuth: Itrs in a classification all by j.lseIf . Erhart: r go back to what t originally said, we should change the wholetone of accessory structure shall- not exceed L,660 square feeE. Dacy: But the term accessory structure incLudes docks,pools, g3rages,storage buildings, tennis courts. Ellson: Didn't r.re talk about this before? Webefore. Batzli: I didnrE like storage then and I stjlL came up hri th storage and str ucture up wi th and garages. don't 1i ke it. Planning Commi ssion May I8, 1988 - Page Meet i ng 26 Erhart: tetrs just take Accessory bui Idings. the storage out and letrs say just buildings. Dacy: That could be number 8 Erhart: Why donrt you just state detached garages... Dacy: Because a private stable is a conditional use in the single family and it's a permitted use in the A-2 and RR. Thatrs an issue. Do you erantto review the size of the buildings through the condit j.onal use peimitprocess for private stable depending on the number of horses and theacreage or did you want to set a maximum acreage for calling it anaccessory structure? As a condiEional use it can be the principle use ofthe land. Erhar t :How big was that stable? I think that was over L,ggg.Dacy:I think it was L,3gO or l,4gg. Emmings: There you go. Dacy: I think we need to be consistent though ordinance and as long as wetre listing storage accessory uses, lve shouLd try to keep that. Erhart: Itrs clear to you that a horse barn? Emmings: You might include it jn the with other terms in the buildings as li s ted Batzli: I would recommend personally, that we come up withfor our definition sectj.on for a storage building. what isbuilding and that would solve our problem. Then we can useIike using the term but I don't I ike realIy creating terms what we're talking about right now but is somebody tries toand it's not defined anywhere. a air tha co definition storage. Then It we know me in Later BatzLi: Itrsstructure. going to be a building defi ni tion means we thaErs not connected do not. . . Eo the main Emmings: Not used primarily BatzIi: Not used primarily for... f or. r.rha tever . isn't both rather than what itthe Sears barns and i.s. the I r.rou Id bigger Emmings: WheEher it's cars, stables or anythjng. Batz1i: You have to define what itrather be...because then you take inpole barns and whatever eIse. Dacy: Okay, we can do that. Jo Annis an accessory use so if werve gotdistrict, then as written they wouldthey wouldn I t. just pointed out that private stablesIqg acre parcel out in the A-2 need a conditional use permit. No, Planning Commission May 18, 1988 - page Meeting 27 wildermuth: If it's under L,ggO square feet it doesn'E... Batzli: Proceeding onto number and storage buildings and startyou differentiating between thebuilding? 4...but then we leave our detachedtalking about accessory buildings.accessory building and the storage garages Are Emmings: That's the term youin (c). You used accessory use but you aLso used it do$rndidn't want tobuildings. Erhart: Going backwe're going to havejust make it a rule. to that one, that sentence oughta rule against lrtqg square foot to be eliminated. Ifbuildings, then Ietts Batzri: That begs the question on lrhat do you allow on 5 acres or more? Erhart: Werre not inposing restrictions. Batzli: If we leave that inuse process.there you have to go through the conditional Dacy: Erhar t : Then that should be clarified. Dacy: r think that ends up the lray it'is being written but r think the waywe had intended it was for 5 acres or less. Batzli: I don.t read it thaE way. What are we trying to clarify? Dacy! Our inEent hras that if it was an ag lot, not part of thesubdivision as you had described, that they may need a buirding more thanL,ggg sqoaxe feet and rather than having Ehem come in for a vaiiance whichmeans a hardship has to be demonstraEed whereas a conditional use permitis a little more flexible. Erhart: My concern is that ere permj.t everything. Batzli: Over 5 acres. Erhart: rt doesn't say over 5 acres. rf you're going to change i.t to saythat if you had more than 5 acres and you wanted io uu:.ra r,000 squarefeet and come in for a conditional use permj.t, Irm all for that. Dacy: Thatrs an option. you could bepermits for accessory buiLd j.ng s aad/or,restrictions on accessory buildings inbe in the front and side yard and so on Erhart: you're sayi.ng with the proposedcurrent ordinance read s? getting a lot of conditionalas written, there is nothe A-2. I should say, theybut that's about it. ordinance change or as the use canrt Planning Commission May I8, 1988 - page Meeting,a Dacy: The current ordinance reads the same $ray. you can have 100 acresand you canrt have it in the front and side yard. Erhart: Let me try to clarify this. Letrs say we have in sentence one inparagraph 4. We agree-that. the wording, detached garages and storagebuirdings with your definition Brian, is perhaps aicepfable. Then thequestion becomes, as I read it, we add another paragraph that allowssomeone to come in for a conditional use permit. To ne that's thequestion on this. Am I rj.ght or $rrong? Emmings: You'd rather have them come in for a variance? Erhart: Yes, because I think if $re're going towrite a rule... The rule is written for a goodthat itrs a good reason. r^rrite it, why would we reason. If we believe Dacy: How about if we do this? Shall exceed L,Ogg square feetacres or less and add some language for lots used primarily forfamily purposes. on lots 5 singJ.e Erhart: Farms on 5 acres or less.that conditional use sentence or do Irm assuming \^rha t anything. everybody with j ust eliminating want it to stay in? think more IS you Batzli: Ird be happy to eliminate that sentence but I stil-Isection might raise the issue of $rhat happens when yourve got acres . Erhart: put up Batzl i : Erhart: No, Irm all in My concern is that when about it. this than 5 it says is if yourve got more than 5 acres, you Irm assuming that as well. Emmings: I donrt know if I vrant to throw out the sentence. The onlything, if somebody had a good reason to put up over l,OA0 sqoare feet5 acre piece. If you look at our standards for issuing a cond j.tional permit where it can't depreciate surrounding property value and it hasbe aesthetically compatj.ble. If we could control it to that extent. ona use to favor of that...horse barns. I agree erith that.this comes in we wonrt really sit down and think Emmings: I don't know. 1,000 square feet case somebody wants it. A machj.ne shop orbuild cabinets or something Iike that. not a }ot for 5 acres in somebody wants to use it l.s if to Erhart: ...Ird even go to L,5q0 square feet on 5 acres. Just cut thewhole thing. Instead of 5 make it 3. I don't think werre going to seeanybody selling in the rural more than 5 acre lots. If some guy wants tosplit t0 acres into 5r than I don't care what kind of buildings he puts 1n. Batzli:I th j.nk 3 acres is probably a goocl number to go with then. Planning Commission May 18, 1988 - page Meeting 29 Emmings: Okay, so if you put 3 acres in the first sentencethe second sentence and have it say that over 3 acres thererestrictions on properties greater than 5? Wildermuth: As long as the setbacks are satisfied. and are eliminate no Batzli: IhE RSF That I s and . . . So what yourre doing isR-4 districts?yourre actually Iessening the standard in my next question. Why do we have setback requirements for the A-2that. in side. wou ld Dacy: Werre just establishing different setbacks for RSF and R-4. Erhart: I think the confusion that Brian and I have is when you useword residential district and Itm not sure in our minds, because thesays Agricultural Estates, werre not sure that your language covers Dacy: We are specifying the district though. Erhart: You're saying that no detached garages or storage buildingsany residential district shall be located in the requirea front and Dacy: In number 3 wetre specifying... Batzli: RSF and R-4. So if you lived in A-2, you could put... Dacy: You would go by the original ones in the A-2 district. Theybe in the front and rear. Batzli: RSF and Emmings:R-8, and Residential districts R-12. Tim, in the ordj.nance are RR, RSF, R-4, Dacy: Nov, we're increasing Ehe setback because right now they can have itback to 5 feet withj.n the rear yard. Now in t.he RSF district werre sayingif itfs 2ga or less you can put it 5 feet on the rear and l0 on the side.If yourre over, yourre up to 15 feet. Batzli: What would the normal rear yard setback be? Dacy: For an accessory building it's 5 feet. BaEzIi: So ifA-2 is i ncl udedIimited by the itrs over.2Og square feet...but according to the ordinance,in a residential district. so if you h;d A-2, are youseEback in some other section wetre not looking at? Erhart: Theagricultural You need to say residential and Emmings: So you want to add all residential and the A-2. same goes for paragraph 5.districts. Erhart: ...item 1 and i.tem 5 and we add A-2. Planning Commi ss ion May 18, 1988 - Page Meeting 3g Batzli: I want to retract everything I saidparagraph 4. I'll Iet them worry about that Dacy: So the about that second sentence in when the t ime comes... sec ond shou Id sentence of 4 is dropped and that's it? have the first sentence in 4 changed to say...Emmings: You Erhart: And about, is it consistent? aII residential districts detached garages that have about storage buildings? and to barns by say i ng 2gg does? Just the A-2 district. be a rch i tectura l ly 5 rnjust wha t Wha t Olson: We talked about that and storage buildings they didn,t have to bedesigned to make those. Batzli: Can we differentiate the square feet doesnrt have to be and Ellson: You can get those things to ask to paint it your color and 1ot. big and already prefab and thenroof the same, that's asking a Sears over that under 200a question. mighty have a Batzli: I thought I would just ask though. Dacy: There is also the deed restrictions... To be detached garage is but at Ieast there it's somethingthe structure. honest I think a that is dependent on Erhart: Irm talking of that small lot subdivision from putting metal sheds in. what happens in 2 L/2 acre minimum and you've got a consistentneighborhood and the temptation. . .and the next door neighbor canrt dothat. Yourre trying to protect t.he value of one neighbor against what some other guy will do. Thatrs what Irm trying to do. Ellson: You buy those things already made and then them architecturally sound or then yourve got to go house or whatever. to go back and make back to your stucco Emmings: Barb, we have unanimously...to A-2. You've got to change whereyou put all the argicultural distrjcts. You canrt put A-1 up there. You canrB enforce this. It should be in A-2 and aLl residential districts. So 5 should be changed to just say A-2 and alL residential districts. Erhart: The last question remains I guess is do we want Eo take lots of 2L/2 acxe subdivision and allow these metal storage sheds. ThaErs thequestion and Irm proposing that we add st.orage sheds to 5 to prevent that. Batzli: I think shed and you I re Lester. I don't we could. Enmings: Iresidential by J-im j.ting s j.ze you're goj.ng to allow the Sears storagegoing Eo el.imjnate a guy comj.ng in with a 45 x 17, x 3Olthink hte can regulate the sheds. Ird sure like to think dontt think wet l.l have a problem... districts and you're using accessory Do we mean now building and do just we want Planning Commission May 18, 1988 - page Meeting 3l them included in A-2 here or not? Dacy: If the structure is used for agriculturalinterpretted as the primary use. Erhart: I think the basis that in the 3 acre or less Dacy: This could per ta j. n garages buiIt. purposes , that can be whole thing applying to rural areas is acres. fami ly. of thi s lots.If itrs 10 to RSF or mul t iple we just donrt wanE Erhart: I agree. A1l I'm saying is if agreement...in any residentialdistrict and on any lot ress than 3 acres in the a-2 area, no accessorybuilding or structure shalr be built and so on. r think what you don,i$rant. to do is get the 20 acre parceJ. out there and prevent som6 guy fromputting a storage shed up. That happens frequently. Emming: Okay,A-2 lots than 3 so we say in anyacres. Then it residential district. or less than 3 acres.says no accessory bui Id ing. Dacy: Change it to storage. Emmings: Storage building and thatrs all? difference betlveen an accessory building or a storage Dacy: Letts just say no storage buj.ldin9,buildings shaIl be erected. detached garage or accessory term yourve found is accessory buj. Id j.ng. werre trying to accornplish. Dacy: Yes. Batzli: What r s the shed ? Erhart: The best accomplishes what Batzli: I would agree.for accessory everyth j.ng. It I r.rould say there, accessory use. yourre looking Dacy: Again, anytime you say no accessory use that means docks. EIIson: You canrt have a porch. Dacy: That covers it all. Emmings: Letts try that and see how it works. Erhart: Is this comi.ng back to us? Dacy: Yes, Jo Ann and I were just talking that. itrs been so long weshould really readvertise for a pubric hearing with the changes. Planning Commi ss i on May 18, 1988 - page I.leet i ng CONTlNUE BF DlSTRICT DISCUSSIO}I. Erhart: A1l I want to do is, if we canwant to deal with planning issues or weIf we want to get into the legal issues,here. Werll never get this out of here. the question of whether weget into the legal issues. never get this through settle want to wer lI Emmings: I mentioned to Tim when we were sitt ing here that maybeshould find out the legal problems involved befoie we spend tiireon this. Tim's point was that we should ignore the 1egal issue.it onto the City Council, we should do the planning decision andworry about the legality and I thj.nk that makes a lot sense. there there? we working . . .moveIet them now, as Dacy: As a matter of fact, Roger went out and looked at these sitesand we had a talk about it in preparation for tonight,s meeting. Emmings: Why don't you tell us about that. today Dacy: He is really concerned about changing the zoning to ag on themajority of these properties where it can't be proven that it is aneconomically reasonable use of the property as;n ag use. For example,the cold storage. That wilr be non-confomring. Maybe a better exampte isthe Jack Brambil-ra's rot where that smalr building was. rf thatrs vacatedand we change it to A-2, it's really dubious that the City can prove thatthatrs a viable lot for ej.ther ag purposes or for a single family home. Erhart: Hers already there right? Hets grandfathered in. I.Jerre noteconomically chang ing tha t.. Dacy: Itrs just a vacant building. Ellson: Then he comes in with a ner.i person as a renter. Dacy: How about if I just finish. He followed that up by saying maybe vJhat we should do j.s the City has used an appraiser in the past and nothaving the appraiser do a formal report but just going out there undersite inspection and look at values of some of these properties because theAttorney is concerned that by rezoning we may be taking. He said that,sfine if yourre willjng to pay for it. That kind of gets to the issue thatyourre talking about. The Council is the one that authorizes, especiallythe rezoning and authorizes acquis j.t ion of the property. Anotheralternative other than rezoning to A-2 j.s that the City become a littlemore ambitious in creating...for thj.s area. Either frontage road or someset of standards that are going to try and resolve the traffic j.ssues andthe zoning issues. That is poss j.ble. That means a public improvementproject and assessments back to the properties. They have to have sometype of use of the land that's going to enable them to pay off theassessment. ltrs like between a rock and a hard p)-ace. Emmings: small as One question. Isit can be to cover BF zone that werve got downpropertj.es that are already the the Dacy: Yes. As a matter of fact originally it extended over tomunicipal boundary. I can have Roger write his feelings up formain concern is the taking issue. Thatrs fine jf we,16 wiiling theyou. Histo buy it Erhart: Someone would haveit important enough that. we use. to the public hearing and then... Isdo anything about it? Long term land to come vran t to Bnmings: Shouldn r t direction Counci 1? for something like that come from the City Batzli: I guess hrha t I'd propose is that we make a resolution thatwould rike to see thaE preserved in A-2 and we want the city councillook at it then give us direction. Just make a resolution. 9re to Erhart: If the Commission thinksthen Ietrs go to Council and saythis point, r^re think itrs a validthem to look at it- what werre proposing here j.s a good ideawe think, without geEting into details at and good planning proposal and we,d like Emmings: Letrs send Timrs consideration be made. updated letter along and that further Erhart: r carled Eden prairie on this subjecE, the Minnesota val,Ley, andylut I got from this phone call,- Ehey have what Ehey call a conservatorydistrict. rt covers this area down there, the Minn3sota River varley.The Purgatory creek watershed and the Bluff creek waEershed. what ii saysis you've got your zonjng districts but rrrithio this conservatory districithere's also a condition and it.'s on density and types of use. rt's sortof like a...that overlays these special areas. r ionsider the Minnesotavalley and the Bluff creek area is the same potentiar for that so that waskind of, r $ras talking to Barb about this, about getting "o..on" to comeover and just tark to us about preservation of green areas and these areasin general . Tly to give us some direction on what to do to get thoseareas preserved. During the small ti.me ve been here r,ve ieen whereitrs been easy to come in and the next thing yourve got a subdivisioncoming in and it doesn,t hi.t you that night, iE.,s inconsisEent with thereal 10ng term opportunity to have a green area. we donrt want it righton Bluff creek which years ago we already sort of planned to make it as agreen area but it never rearly got officiar so we missed it. ...Bluffcreek Green's did. came back and negotiate to get some easements. Dacy: For ? Planning Commission Meet i. ng May 18, 1988 - page 33 Bnmings: r don't know if this wourd make sense. Do you think we ought toIet the City Council, do you want to just pass this up to the City Councilor should we ask them to give us direction on this? If they hrant us totake a look at it. Dacy: What I could do also, if you rdant, kind of a parcel by parcelanarysis of, there are I properties in there. Have Lhe appriiler evaluateit. Have Roger analysize it and then you have a better feel for theentire history. Planning Commission May I8, 1988 - Page Meeting 34 Erhart: It was asubdivisi.on along remember Thompsonplot rri th in this. Batzli: overlay? walking. For Bluff Creek for the golfPioneer Trail. ile approved it all the asked a few questions and the developer course. That way through. caught on to Is that something that should go in the Comprehensive plan? Our Dacy: our wetland, your froodplain and shoreland ordinances all are nowoverlay districts right now Don called me back and he said that thatconservative district did not apply to the Mj.nnesota River Valley. Iasked him to write a letter to us clarifying what are the reguraiions forthe the Iand immediately abutEing TH 2I2. Erhart: Anyway, lheir whole valley area is zoned agricultural. Dacy: He said r^rhat they have besides the ag zoning is they do haverestrictions on steep slopes which is similar to our zoning. Batzli: Are $re unanimous in wanting to implement Tim's plan? Emmings: That's what I r^ranted to ask. Do you need a formal motionresolution or someth ing ? or Dacy: Why donrt you go ahead and move. Erhart moved, Batzli seconded that the planning commission wourd like tochange the BE district to A-2 in the location east of TH 101. The Citycouncil should take into account the comments of the city Attorney and theappraiser to give direction on whether or not to pursue rrith thatapplication. AIso, that the City Council take into account Tim Erhart'sletter regarding this issue. Alr voted in favor and the motion carried. Erhart moved, EIIson seconded to acijourn and the motion carried. The meetj.ng was the meeEing. adjourned at voted in favorp.m.. AII 9:45 Submitted by Barbara DacyCity Planner Prepared by Nann Ophe 1m I Planning June 15, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 2g { Wildermuth: Excellentthink they're probably center. idea. I think Instant Webb is to be commended.the first company in Chanhassen to have a daycare I Emmings: I have no comments. I agree with Annette. EIIson moved, Wildermuth seconded that the planning Commissionapproval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment Request #S8-I0 to amend2g-8L3, Permitted Accessory Uses of the IOp, Industrial OfficeDistrict as follows: Licensed Care Center. r ecommend Section Park (4) AIl State voted Day andin favor the motion carried. ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND SECTION 2O-9A4 AND SECTION 2A-615(68), ACCESSORY STRUCTURES TO PROVIDE SETBACKS AND MAXIMUM SIZE OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, STORAGE BUILDINGS AND DETACHED BUILDINGS Olsen: wer re asking you want to publish the whole to table it right now until we can republish. Wething so people can see it. { Emnings: At this point you just want to know that vre... olsen: easier That this is okay. Theto see what the changes is in bold hopefully to make itnew stuf f were. Emmings: We're going to table this I guess. Conrad: So we're not goi.ng to have a pubJ-ic hearing. Enmings: So werre not going to have a public hearing and I thinktheyrre asking for is our comments as to the cantent of this whencome back on the public hearing so they want to be sure that werreagreement lrith what this says at this point in time. If anybodyr sreservations, just go ahead and speak them out.. conrad: The onry thing that r find interesting is the city councir, whowas.very concerned about I,ggg square foot accessory buiLding and w_-rationalized LrAOA as a good sized three car garage and a sh6p. Thatrshow we came to that rruua feex. That makes sense-to me. r hive no othercomments but thatrs a number we could certainly move around. whether iErsL,qqa oE r^rhatever. r think city councir wilr move iE to where they wantto move it anyway so I don't really care. Emmings: The 3 acres is the same thing. It could beIt could be 5 or 9 but I think itrs reasonable. Thenthat this basically says, that it brings together whatmany times before. wha tit does ingot any (3. d oes hre 4. fee I SO It could be ev e r ybody tried to do I think Ird just clarify that or something. Werre talking about ( Batzri: The one comment r had was for agricurtural district with ressthan 3 acres. Are there many agricurturir districts in the city with lessthan 3 acres? Are you talking about lots in agricurtural distr-icts? OIsen: Yes. BatzIi: Iots. Hnmings: Agricultural district Iot. Batzri: something like that. yourre not talking about the district.yourre talking about lots erithin the district. Emmings: or parcers maybe because they probably arenrt divided into rots. Batzli: Thatrs just kind of a clarification. OIsen: Just add parcels to residential district parcels and agriculturaldistrict parcels. Batzli: Does the 3 acres appry to Ehe residential district as werr? a L Olsen: No. Itm just saying, if you're confused with agriculturaldistrict maybe residential district is confusing too. Batzli: well, it's in any residential district or in an agriculturaldistrict on lots of less than 3 acres is r.rhat yourre trying to say,correct? I guess Ird just clarify that a little bit. Hnmings: Okay, then is there a mot j.on to table this until can be given for a public hearing? proper notice Batzli moved, Wildermuth seconded to table the zoningto amend Section 2A-994 and Section 20-6L5 (6b) untilgiven. AII voted in favor and the motion carried. Ordinance Anendmentproper notice can be SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR Jo Ann OIsen presented OE' THE FIRE STATION, 7610 LAREDO DRIVE. reporE. EXPANS ION Ehe staff Wilderrnuth: I have no questions on this issue. I think it's a fine ideato expand the fire department. t Batzli: I think it,s a fine idea Eo expand it asquestions though. I was curious where, the powernorth side of the property. Apparently some sortthat erhere the property line is? welL. I have a coupleIines now run along the of uti l ity easement. Is Planning Commission Meeti ng June 15, 1988 - Page 21 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEET I NG JULY 20, L988 Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m MEMBERS PRESENT: James Wi ldermuth Tim Erhart, Steven and David Headla Emmings, Annette EIIson, Ladd Conrad, MEMBERS ABSENT: Brian BatzI i STAEE PRESENT: Barbara Dacy, CityCity Planner and Larr Brown, Asst. Planner i Jo Ann Olsen, Asst.City Eng i neer PUBLIC HEARING: SUBDIVISIOT{ OF 7 ACRES INTO TWO LOTS AND ONE OUTLOT AND TO CREATE A NEW 54TH STREET CUL-DE-SAC ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF WEST 54TH STREET AND HWY. 41, REED ADDITION, GARY REED AND HSZ DEVELOPMENT. PubIic Present: Address Gary and Jan Reed Roger Zahn Just a quick quest i ona standard for vra ter 2461 West 64th Street HSZ Development Larry. It was stated in the staff reportretention on site. Is that a City Conrad:like itrs standard? Brolrn: Yes. That retention pond, as Barb mentioned before, wiLl accomodate a 16A yeax storm event or, not only for the Reed property for the HSz property. I should also add that the pond will also help the drainage problem that's occurred in the past on the Reed property drainage that flows underneath TH 41 fron the Minnetonka school. but in fr om Conrad: I think it's a good standard. Chairman Conrad called the public hearing to order. Gary Reed, 2461 West 64th Street: The hoJ.ding pond, I haven't discussedthis with Mr. zahn yet but I don't know if it would make a difference whether it went in one or another place as far as the location of whetherit be, I've done some test drilling since I last talked to Roger and wefound one Iot that the bottom would be pretty low and hard to build on so we thought that vrould be a better location for the pond. Name Barbara Dacy and Larry Brown presented the staff report. PI ann i ng JuLy 20, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 2 Conrad: So you feel there,s a better place for the retenti.on pond? Gary Reed: Yes.the pond and thj.sbe low so if ... They had it in Outtot A here thatis the lot that I was informed on we had kind of l-ocated that it would probably Headla: Could you put that slide up Larry so ere can all see? Conrad: I dontt know that we care rightbe working lrith the applicant to find theengineering feels itts appropriate. now but we would direct staff toright Iocation and whether Gary Reed: ...it's and . . . just a matter at this time, itrs kind of preliminary Conrad: And possibly wou 1dwith Larry and staff withinin two weeks fron norr? you have that informatj. ona week so they could take ready it to to discussCity Counc i 1 Gary Reed: yes. I think the test report should be back. Conrad: Itrd be nice to and staff before it gets Roger Zahn: I understand.and itrs a big number. The go with that kindto City Counc i I . of firm agreement between you Anything else besj des that? that number todaydo it that way, Gary Reed: As far as the rest of it,s concerned, I think irer re all... Roger zahn, Hsz Development: r just $/anted to maybe alert the commissionto the fact that the additionar length of storm sewer that werve beenasked to add to our earrier proposai, werve gotten a preliminary estimateon the cost of that and it turns out to be about $zs,-ggg.oa over and abovewhat we had proposed to do before. we were rooking at some otherealternatives. possibly a study as to the topograpiy or something. Irmsure our engineers have tarked to Larry. rou mig6t- study it a tittrecroser and find that the earrier proposal might actually work but ere wantto.find something that does work. This one ilternative certainly does butit's an expensive alternative too. we just wanted to alert you to that.rf you can find something that works as werr and is a littre bit lessexpensive than that. conrad: Barbara, here hre have t$ro cases where we have a retention pondand we have some concern with how we run the water off and it seems rikethe applicants are asking for some time. Do you have a suggestion to us? Dacy: I canrt believe that the applicant reall,y r^rants this thing tabledbecause the original approval on this was that ihe storm sewer issues andprans and specs had to be _ approved prior to permits and r know they wantto get going on the shopping center. These issues do need to be resorvedas quickly as possibre because if there are any changes and we change theplans... In order to keep your schedule going, ther;'s going to have tobe some decision made. Just to clar j.fy. I only gotbottom line is, if we had to Pl ann ing JuLy 29, Commission Meet j. ng 19 88 - Page 3 we !.rould. expensi ve, slow down. If Ehere isnrt something that's clearly suj.tabl-e,thatts... fErs sort of a recent development. We tha t I s less donrt want to Emmings: rt seems to me that the storm sesrer question is a condition ofthe approval tha!rs already been given. What wetre looki.ng at heretonight is just a replat of the Reed property and it doesn't matter forwhat werre looking at in front of us or am I wrong about that? Dacy3 The f j.rst part of your statementplat is the creation of the pond on thethe run-off from the HSz property. is correct also. part of this Reed property which does handle ftnmings: Isa condi tion? Dacy: What I s that? Emmings: The creation of Dacy: rtrs indicated on 6 of the conditions. Emm j. ngs moved, Erhart secondedfavor and the motion carried. the holding pond? the drawings. On the right hand side and number to close the public hear j.ng. Al1 voted in The public hearing was closed. it in there? Where do I see that in here? Is it in here as Emmings: But resolutj.on of the drainage problem is a condit ion of theother approval thatrs already been made. Headla: On the page 2 of the staff's memo, it says the property should be made aware that upon replatting that a different streetutility plan may be required. Are the applJ.cantrs aware of that?get this part Barb? owner or Did you Dacy: Yes. report. Both Mr. and Mrs. Reed and Mr. Zaln recej.ved a copy of the HeadIa: What are rrre cons ider i ng? reall.y supposed to be voting on tonight or Dacy: Tonight yourre approvi.ng a preliminary plat creating the creatjon of an outlot and tvro single family lots. The creation of a cul-de-sac on64th Street j.nto the Reed property. Yourre reviewing the utitity and drainage plans for the construction on that street of a proposed trunksewer sys tem. Headla: We donrE have that will we? Dacy: Yes. Shovrn on the plans pond along 64th Street and then is crea t i on dor.rn oriole of a pond and a pi.pe from that Lane. Planning JnIy 2q, Wildermuth: Independent of the storm sewer Dacy: I don't think therets storm sewer out Brown: Therers a paper street right noer. Comm j. ss j. on Meet i ng 1988 - Page 4 What you're seeing is angoing to handle ex j.sting system and the street right? there. Dacy : That I s improvement over and...the existing situation. Conrad: Of this r./hoIe site, water ispaper it Looks like j.t's been resolvedl ittle bit different alternatives. an important consideration and onbut the applicants are finding a Headla: Maybe I'm confused butbefore on one of our motions? on number 2, didn't you pull that out Brovrn: That the applicant shall enter into a development contract? Headla: Yes. Brown: Irm sure that we probably have, yes. Headla: What determines if it.'s in or out? Dacy: Hers referring to the Waytek ptan I'm sure. Brown: usually anytime that there's a...vre require the appricant Eo enterinto a- development contract because there's a pt.tted punii.c right-of-waythat the city then has i.nterest in with creati-ng a striet. The other printhat yourre referring Eo is the waytek pran ti16d at tile last planning Commission meeting which was a site plan only. Headla: And. . . Brown: correct, because we reaJ-1y did not have a publi.c interest in anyof the platted right-of-ways. wildermuth: From the engineering standpoint, wourdnrt you rrrant to runsome kind of a storm sewer line down the cul-de-sac to iie into t.hat otherline thatrs shown at a right angle line? other!"rise ii'= jr"t goi.ng to rundown the cul-de-sac r j.ght? Brown: You,re saying run a storm sewer system doL,/n this direction? wirdermuth: Erom the cul-de-sac down going north to the other rine. Brovrn: Irm sorry, I guess I don't understand. Wildermuth: How are you goj.ng to drain the cul-de-sac? Dacy: Goj.ng down the south of the cul-de_sac. cary Reed: Are there catch basj.ns on the cul_de_sac? Planning JuIy 20, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 5 Brown: There are catch Irm wrong, I believe thehere. basi.ns down at this point here and correct me ifstreet grade runs the drainage down to this point Wi ldermuth : street? So yourre just going to let it run down the surface of the Bro$rn: In the gutter, correct. Wildermuth: Is curb and gutter required here Barbara? Brown: Correct. ftrs urban secti.on. Wildermuth: It still seems like it's going to be a problemrunning some type of a storm ser,rer down from the cul.-de-sacthe other sewer line. Brown: Normall-y we try to use the criteria of limiting theto approximately between 5gg and 1,000 feet. It depends onof the grades. Obviously werd like to have the stoim sewerimmediatety avail,able but if the grades arenrt very steep, make a greater allowance for lettjng it run-off the gutter. there wi thoutto tie into gutter run-offthe sever i ty sys t em then we usual ly Gary Reed: If I could make the comment just about the existingcondit j.ons. There has been a problem wiLh water coming down the street....it needs regrading and so on... Ellson: I donrt have anything new. I think it looks fjne. Bnmings: I basically think itrs fine andpond, I think what $re should do j s perhapsso inclined to approve this plan with thejust leave it up Eo them to show the City vray before they get to the City Council so as far as the location of the go ahead and j.f the people arepond where it is, then again, that they wanE it a differentit moves it out of here. Erhart: The. . . is such ait.minor deLail that I think the staff can l-ook at Emmings: Itrs a technical- issue. Conrad: Itrs a technical jssue and we don,t understand it. Barbara, just one quick question going back to the property to the north. The plan isto vacate 64th. Shov, me now the roads work. Can you do that? The pointfrom the cul-de-sac and the point of vacating the roads. Refamiliarize me r,ri th tha t . Dacy: From here on out, this is where 64th Street now exists. Rj.ghtalong here. Once this is constructed, this portion of 64th Street into TH 4I will no longer exist. They'lI remove the pavement. Regrade.Council required construction of an 8 foot bi tuminous trail so that will meander through this area as well. There wilI be no connection between54th street back to TH 41. Planning Joly 20, Commission Meet i ng 1988 - Page 6 Conrad: And theytll have their oern internal turn into that property? Dacy: Yes, the cul-de-sac wilt just be able to turn. conrad: And how do you get to the cur-de-sac? rs it anticipated thatthat property wiII be, how do you get to the cul-de-sac? Dacy: The rday that you wourd be able to get to it is from TH 7 eitherturning right into oriore or reft into oriore. Another condition ofcouncil approvar was that the applicants construct that left turn lane uphere on TH 7 to make a safer left turn movement into Oriole. conrad: so is it thought that that's going to be residentiar area? Dacy: r think lrhat the. Reeds and maybe yourrl irant to comment but theyare looking at residentiar around the cul-de-sac with potentiarapplication for commercial. you might rdant to verity ifrat. conrad: Yourre comfortable with the cul-de-sac arternative here? Dacy: city council approved that on May 31, 198g. staff did have anotherrecommendation. Enmings: The commission and the staff r think both wanted to see G4thgoing through but r consider that a dead issue. r stilr think it shourdbe. conrad: .r just want to raise that point. r think there are otherarternatives to that cur-de-sac arid obviously we have a disagreement withthe city council. r hope they pay attention to $rhat that's ioing. r naveno other comments. r think it's;ise to move it out to give the-appJ-icanisome time in here so if they do want to change to anythiig, they .;; ,;;ii-with city staff- whether it be drainage, reLention ionasi sewer and I. thllk it's realry wise to do that befween now and dity .ouncir so thatthe city council can see what we approved and then ".., i." if th.r. uruany variati-ons to that based on youi agreement with staff. rs there amotion? Emnings: could r ask a question of Larry before we make a motion? Thisplan shows the rocation of a pond in the spot that we tarked about butdoes it aLso show the storm sewer goi.ng doin, rike on thif-arawing youshowed us, _going all the way down onto the City property? ff we ipirovewhatrs in front of us, will we be approving i t- wi th' the' stoim sewer goingall the way down onto City property? Bro!'rn: Eor clarification, the plan does not directly show that and if thecommissi.on so chooses, they can nake the condition tiat the storm sewer beextended all the way down to the Herman Eield park. Dacy: The plan does show it. Thatrs the plan dated July L3th. Emmings: Okay, r^rhere do we see that? Planning JuLy 2q, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 7 Dacy: This line here running aII the way down. Enmings: It doesnrt show where it goes though does it? Dacy: What it's showing you is that itrs stopping and discharging corner of that property. Itrs not the trunkated version. Was that one that you're referring to? Brown: No, I guess I was agreeing with bit unclear to whether it just stopped Mr. there Emmings that or where it at to it was a I i ttle went from there. at the the at present, Park? Bnmings: And you're telling us that in your opinion, it's necessary that that pipe be extended all the way 4 5 6 least Herman Brown 3 Correct. Enmings moved, Wildermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of subdivision #88-17 to create one outlot and two single family Iots in the West 64th Street cul-de-sac as Presented on the plat stamped "Received JuIy 13, 1988" and subject to the following conditions: I Reservation of a 25 foot trail easement over the proposed 8 foot bituminous trail in the vacated 64th Street right-of-way. z.The applicant shall enter into a development contract with the City and provide the City with the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the proper installation of this improvement. The applicant shall obtain and comply t ith all conditions of the Watershed District perm i t. 2 Utility easements Iocated over the proposed sanitary sewer and watermain between the existing west 54th street right-of-way and the proposed cul-de-sac right-of-way shall be shown on the final plat. These easements shall be 20 feet in widEh minimum. The applicant shall provide the City r.rith a temporary easement agreement which will allow entry onto the Reed property for consLruction of the cul-de-sac and ponding sites. The proposed ponding s j.te located at the southeast quadrant of the proposed intersection of West 64th Street and the proposed cu1-de-sac inatt Ue located such that a 5 foot buffer exists between the existing utitities in West 64th Street and the 100 yeat hjgh water elevation for the ponding site. A temporary constructj.on easement wil-I be required from the Minnesota Department of TransPortation such that gradj.ng may take Place within the right-of-way owned by the Minnesota Department of TransPortation located adjacent to the northeast corner of the parcel. 7 Planning JuIy 20, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 8 o o A11 erosion controls sharr be in place prior to the commencement ofany construction, and sharl remain in prace throughout the durationconstruction. The developer shalr periodicarry iispect the erosioncontrols and make any necessary repiirs promptly. The plat shall maintain the 64th Street street name. of Arr voted in favor except conrad who opposed and the motion carried. Conrad: And my reason for opposition.Iike the cul-de-sac. I don't think itrscul-de-sac there for future use. I li ke the subdivision-the best plan. Hav i ng I do not the PUBLIC HEARING: SUBDIVISION REQUEST TO SUBDIVIDE 76.5 ACRES INTOACRES ON PROPERTY ZONED A-2, AGRICULTURAL ESTATE96TH STREET, TIM ERHART. TWO AND LOTS OF 66.5 AND 10 LOCATED AT 775 WEST Conrad: tabled. Headla moved, #88-18 per thecarried. It is my understanding thaE Mr. Erhart has asked this to be Erhart: Before we do that, ret me exprain the reason for this is that inpurchasing the land on a contract for deed g years ago, the contract is upnext March and r.rith the help of Mr. perpich, in oraei to get, because ofthe new foreclosure laws, wi:ereas banks wiri not ;;;ag;;.';;opertiesrarger than 1g acres because they canrt forecrose on [nJ. irryroo... rf youwant to get a mortgage, yourve got to have a rot size of r0 acres or ress.Therefore, I,m required lo get i mortgage to subdivid" i"a-piut out 10acres around the house. So any\"ray, we didnrt get a chance io meet withstaff on some issues and r felt tiere were some clarifications to be madeso I asked thaE we postpone. I,ve got until April Ellson seconded to table actionapplicancrs request. Al1 voted Subdivision Requestfavor and the motion on in Jo Ann ( There Olsen presented the staff report. was a malfunction of the tape at this po j. nt in the meeting.) PUBLIC HEARING 3 CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR SUPERAMERICA STATION, TIIC. TO CONSTRUCTAN 80 SOUARE FOOT PYLON SIGN ON PROPERTY ZONED A-2, ACNiCUiTUNAL ESTATESAND LOCATED AT 615 FLYING CLOUD DRIVE, ROMAN MUELLiR. Conrad: when we all-ow a conditional use,times when we have developed ordinances,conditions are that we're l-ooking for. as staff has directed us we need to know what those so many Ol sen : at that have the we added You and basic condi tions ofthat you should add a conditional an additional use. ...we lookedcondition. . . lay Conrad: So staff is real comfortable that this is not setting aprecedent? That this is in conformance with the point of a conditionaluse and that it meets the conditional use criteria that the ordinancesout? OI sen :Right. Okay, good.Conrad: Wildermuth moved, EIlson seconded that theapproval of Conditional Use Permit Requestpylon sign for SuperAmerica on Highway 2I2 2 The new sign sign. Planning Commission recommend #88-12 for an 80 square footwith the folLowing conditions: 1, The height of the sign cannot exceed 2A feet. must be located in the exact Iocation of the ex j.sting ALl voted in favor and t.he motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: SUBDIVISION REQUEST OUTLOTS ON PROPERTY SOUTHWEST CORNER OF Public Present: Name Mark Koegler Mike Mcclynn Mr. and Mrs. Bert Mcclynn TO SUBDIVIDE 70 ACRES INTO ONE INDUSTRIAL LOT ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OEFICE PARK AND LOCATED HWY. 5 AND AUDUBON ROAD, MCGLYNN BAKERIES. Address Representative for aPPl j cant Appl icant appl icants AND TWO AT THE JoAnn Otrsen and Larry Brown presented the staff report. Chairman Conrad called the publjc hearing to order. Mark Koegler: Let me make a couple of introductions and then briefcomments. To my Left is Bert and Mike McGIynn. Obviously, of McclynnBakeries. ...Just a response to a couple of Ehings that Larry broughtFirst of all in terms of the overall pl-at, the attempt is, as shown asl and Block l wiII be retained under Mcclynn Bakeries, ownership. The up. Lot eianning Commission Meeting JtrLy 29, 1988 - page 9 PI ann ing JoLy 29, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 10 eastern side of that, as you'lI see through the next item of the site planis where the first phase probably will go. Ultimately there will, be asecond phase going essentially to the west of that. It will be kind ofpart of a campus type environment that will exist there. The only issuethat reaIIy has surfaced of recent is the right-of-way requirement fromMnDot along TH 5. We had a couple of concerns initial.Iy. One $ras theuseability of lrhat l,ve shown as Outlot A. We donrt have any majorconcerns in that regard because the property is between about 42q and 4gqfeet deep right now. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 feet, hopefullyno more than that, is not going to impact that. we get into another issueabout lrhat is reasonable for MnDot to require rdithour them actuallyproviding compensation back to the owner but that,s not realry an issue tothis body this evening. we were satisfied after meeting with Evan creenfrom MnDot yesterday that we can work with that. we wiit provide him r,ri thsome additional grade information which is going to have some impact onthe appropriate right-of-way that they need. With regard to theintersection setback from TH 5, as Larry mentioned, the t-lnDot standard is6g0 feeL. We have 590 feet. Again, ...prefect1y adequate for putting inan intersection there so our intent is to get that loop road in. Thereason that 590 foot point is set is because, Irm sure you notice thatlines up with paisley park's center line right-of-way just right acrossthe street which is obviously a very good site in termi of us. That'slikery in the future, at least from MnDotts thinking, couLd be the primaryentrance to Paisrey park. rf the city foLrows their recommendation andputs a median in Audubon, it rrourd shut that first entrance effectivelyoff for any left turn movements in so... Other than that, thereconmendations in the staff report are perfectly agreeable. We arecertainJ.y wirring to work with the city and the consultant on the AudubonRoad project to make sure everything falls into place. If you have anyquestions of me, I'd be glad to answer them or the oerners. wildermuth moved, Erhart seconded to cLose the public hearing. Arl votedin favor and the motion carried. The public helring was closed. conrad: comments on the subdivision only right now before !,re get into thesite pIan. Anything? Headla: rrm looking at sheet 2 and r still donrt understand the 600 feetand Mark has said somethi.ng with the 585. As r look at this one drawing,r think rtm rooking at the right one, r donrt come close to that. what-amI reading rrrong on it? Mark Koegler: The dimensi.on that werre talking about is essentiallycenter l ine to center I ine. TH 5 to r,rhat is rabeled noe, as ButtercirpRoad, this entrance point. That is the distance that on this plan ii ssofeet and that's the standard that MnDot says should be around 600. Head1a: Larry, on sheet 2, doesntt that look like 335? Hark Koegler: That.s the frontage just to this point right here. Headla: Right and then youtve got half the road. PI ann i ng JuLy 2q, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 11 Mark Koegler: Headla: About Mark Koegler: Bror.rn : Center HeadIa: Oh, to Mark Koegler: Headla: Okay. others. And then yourve got out to the center line so youtve got... another 60 feet there. Itrs 590 on our scale and on MnDot's scale. l ine to center line. the center Line of the highway? Yes, thatrs how we measure. My questions were directed to that. I don't have any and Wildermuth: I have no questions on the subdivision. Ellson: Nothing here. Emmings: I have basically no questions. I'm just a little confused. When I look at sheet 2, just because therers something called Block Ithere's nothing called Block 2 and therers something called Lot I. Is that all of Block l? I can't teII where things stop and start and why it's done exactly the way it is. l,lark Koegler: The reason it's set up, Outlot A and Outlot B vriLl subsequently be subdivided at a later date. Enmings: I understand those I think. Mark Koegler: It hrill become Block 2 of Lots such and such, in the case of B. A11 of Block I eventually will wrap around, unless we have some interruption that we donrt envision right now, this wiII become Block 2 in the future. Rj.ght now they're platted as outlots. We essentially have one lot and one block for this entire parcel . Emmings: okay, so the fact that Lot I is written inside that easement doesn't mean that your re. . . Mark Koegler: ThaE Iine is right there. Emmings: Yes, and goes where from there? I'tark Koegler: Lot I, Block I is aII this. Outlot B is thjs piece and Outlot A j.s the piece that wraps around here. Emmings: So right now, just so I understand, Lot I and BLock 1are... Mark Koegler: Correct. Erhart: The intent here is that vrer re going sirnilar to the one just to the east Larry? put an Aud ubon en t r ance Road ? to On s19n Planning JuLy 2q, Commission Meeti ng 1988 - Page 12 Brown: An entrance sign? Erhart: Or a little median in there with an industrialor what was the isLand yourre referring to? park entrance sign Brown: At this pointfeasibility. However,future development, anrule out. there is not a proposed island vrritten into theif traffic volumes srere to increase due to theisland is certainly something that we shouldnrt Erhart: But didn't you mention an island in your presentation? Brown: I did. As I statedwarrant an island, we wouldthat is stiII a possibilityplat here that would limit,intersection into the park Erhart: Okay,Paisley Park? Brown: Correct and g u idel ine. before, if the future traffic volumes docertainly have to consider that and becausein the future, we wouldnt t want to set up aif we could at all help it, a full movementso that was staffrs concern. and thatrs the purpose of havj.ng it directly across from maintaining rLhe 6gg foot distance that we use as a Erhart: Where doesrelative?Park Road enter from the opposite side? Is that Brown: A little bit south. Erhart: The applicant o$rns the entire parcelOpus, the other industrial park, who owned all Mark Koegler: Originallytime that Opus bought it. owner s . that was owned by Dunn There may have been a correct? And like in thethat proper ty? and Curry prior to theseries of proper ty Erhart: But generally when itproperty. Who did the streetsCity do that or was j.t shared? developed into a park, Opus owned thethere then? Did they do that or did the was in Erhart:who'spayingforthestreetimProvementhere? Mark Koegler: Thatts to be determined by the feasibility study. Theproposed, at reast the thinking right no; is that a certiin poition ofthat cost hrould be offset by the eionomic deveropment aiiiiilt. A portionof that cost rrourd be- assessed to the properties thinking thatrs what...inthe study. Audubon obviousry is a roai t[at has m"ny ruic[ions and thatmakes assessments not quite as crear as a residentiai iiieel: - - - ----- Plann i ng J\iLy 20 , Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 13 Erhart: The thinking is that the City will somehowstreet even though it may be the intent of the ownerthese...seII some of the areas to other businesses? pay to for some of thissell some of Mark Koegler: The feasibility study itself, as Larry says, the exact...isbeing defined right no$, but what it appears is you trlve a series ofprioriEies. Priority number one is to get Audubon Road improved andhopefurly to get that southern lane of Buttercup Road into the entrance ofMcGIynn as a part of one public improvement project. From there thearternatives are to put in additional utilities and streets. one optionmight be, not necessarily as a part of that same funding mechanism butpart of the same public improvement project... That hasnrt been determined yet but in the third tier is the utility connections to go downto the south. Whether or not those will be put under the same contract...Right now itrs just being defined as kind of a hierarchy and see $rhat thecosts are . Erhart: Okay. So in looking at this proposal tonight, actually thestreet isnrt that concrete. That's atl the questions I've got. Conrad: I have no comments. Larry, because things are not absolute,are you going to be doing between now and when this hits City Council?WilL you have tied down the thing, the need with MnDot before it getsCity Counc i 1? Brown: Right now, yes we are hoping that MnDot will give us a prompt reply over the next week here and by the time these plans hit CityCouncil, we hope to have the feasibility study complete and that will address aII these questions. wha t to Conrad: Jo Ann, therers nothing in terms of the subdivision, that talksthe streets go based on... right now that really, in openess of roads and where the mot i on about the Olsen: Number 2 I think states thathrhatever...they will be required to meet Conrad: Okay, that covers it. 5, I donrt Conrad: When this gets to City Council, we've got 5 conditions right now. Are there going to be more that staff is going to recommend between nov, and then or is there something Ehat you'd like us to word in ther nohr? Olsen: As far as TH Brown: Irm sure there will beout MnDot I s position. know. a couple more conditions added once we find Conrad: Jo Ann, when you send what circumstances can you add a staff reportconditions that to $re the Ci ty haven I t CounciI, under seen ? Olsen: If there are conditions to be added in, we have an update. Plann i ng JnLy 29, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 14 Conrad: So right now,about the concern wi thwill be a staff update?OIsen: Right. therers nothing ?H 5 and the 80 in the recommendations talkingfoot right-of-way versus 6q, 1E Conrad: Any other questions? Ellson: Is that a problem? Conrad-: WeIl, I get bothered when I don't see whatrs goingCouncil. I'm comfortable sending this along because I thi;kI think we know r.rhaE,s going on 6ere. It's not that we needanything any further. Mcclynn folks have their opinion andtheirs and I think City Staif will arbitrate this thing andit. I donrt think I need to see it an!.more. to Ci typeople know,to clar i fy MnDot has take care of Enmings: Sort of like the storm sewer situation inReed property. It's kind of a technical issue thatsomehow. the has last one on theto be resolved conrad: rtis got to be resorved and all r do here is r make sure that wealways have the arternative. to bring it back. so we see exactly, we havethat right to see exactry whar goes to city councir. -i; a;i. particularcase, rrm comfortable persona1ty trrat we don't need to see this. thatthings can be resorved between iow and then but typicarry ti,r tik. to seerrhatrs going there. Olsen: If they ever changeright-of-way or $rha tev er andOutlot a going into there... the plaE, if they need the 80they would have to rearrange foo t the road or Wildermuth: what wouLd you doneeded the fuII 80 feet, wouldsubdivision dor./n to the south? there l,lark? Let ' s say j. fyou slide the whole plat,MnDot saidthe whole they !.lark Koegler: No. There is adequateuses rre potentially. . . depth there stilt for the type of Conrad: The big concern would be compensation. -Headla moved, I{irdermuth seconded that the pranning commission recommendapproval of Subdivision Request #88-13 as. shown on the ffat stampea"Received June 13, 1988" and subject to the torrowing-c5iiiti".,.! --1. The appricant sharr enter into a development contract $rith the cityand provide the city with the necessary financiar "or.ii.= toguarantee the installation of these publi" iroprove.e.,is. 2' The applicant wirr work with the city to provide the necessarveasement or improvements which are required as a result of t;;feasibirity study for rhe upgrading oi audubon noiJ-""J Mccrynn park. Planning Jtrly 2g , Commission Meeti ng 1988 - Page 15 AII stormsehrer systems shallpipe to be in accordance with construction. be constructed of reinforced concretethe City's standards for urban 3 4. The plans shall be revised to 5. The applicant shall obtain and Watershed District permi t . AII voted in favor and the motion show pond skimmer details. comply with all conditions of the carr ied . Jo Ann Olsen presented the staff report. Conrad: This is not a public hearing but Mark, is there anything that the McGIynn folks r.rould like to say, any comments to the staff rePort? I'lark Koegler: The site plan is generally the same as the previous one. The modifications were made to reflect t.he change in building in the manufacturing operation. I would ask at this point, if you have questions on the buildings, we have representatives here or on the operation itself, wer11 be glad to handle it in that manner. Conrad: what product did you change from? Before the site was intended to produce what versus what is it producing no$r? Bert Mcclynn: Originally it was going to be part retail stores for the area which we also have a frozen operation...is the fastest growing segment of our business. . . conrad: CorporaEe headquarters wilI be where then? Bert Mcclynn: It wiII out here. Conrad: Irm sure happy to have you out here. Tim, do you $rant to start? Erhart: I donrt really have any questions. Enmings: I don't either. EIIson! I loved it. r like to see when people go above and beyond. Those that Put in extra screening and things like that- I thought about the Lyman thing when r was reading this, about having a dock here and they seem to be doing more than is required. wiLdermuth: I see Part of the building designated as freezer, are you going to be using liqui.d nitrogen for freezing? SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR A 161,700 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING FOR OFFICE AND FOOD PROCESSING ON PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFEICE PARK AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF HWY. 5 AND AUDUBON ROAD, MCGLYNN BAKERIES. PLanning JeLy 29, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 16 Bert I'lcclynn: Ammonia. Wildermuth: An ammonia system. So yourre compressors? Are the compressors going to McGIynnrs Archi Eect: Some out. Wildermuth: There isn't going tothere Jo Ann? I like the layout. Headla: What color is it? Is it Mcclynnrs Architect: Theyr 11 use Headla: More like MTSrs in Edenstructure you I re thinking of? A portion of them will be outside... be any special noise requirement isIt is like a campus. going to be like the White Castle. primarily... it will be natural col.ors. Prarie on TH 5? Is that the type of bone white but it will be a very light going to have be outside or large inside? McGlynn I s Archi tect : It hron' E becolor, natural concrete. . . Headla: It's going to be pretty lrell seen from the south. wi 1I have...Mcclynn's Architect: The precast Headla: Jim brought up a point. I seethis or I missed the letter in here. Ehe Fire Department did not review orsen: They did review it and it met all the conditions. There was anoriginal memo from the Fire rnspector and he had stated a lot ofrequirements that wirr be met with the Building rn"f".ioi wnen ttrebuirding prans come through so the public safe[y oiiector wrote anothermemo which removed alr those and said they wereii t necessary at the time.That he meets the UBC Code. Headra: on your refrigeration system, how many ton are you tarking about? I'{cclynnrs Architect: rrn not sure werve got that totally figured out yet. Headla: cive me a ballpark. Are you talking 5g ton? Mcclynnrs Architect: In the ballpark of 300 tons. Headla: And you use ammonia? If they have a fire in that building,shouldn't the Fire Inspector, or how ao yo, handle that? If yourve got309- tons and you,ve got ammonia in there-, ana a iire.in;, soiig in-t6--fight a fire, they,ve got a real problem. l'lcclynnrs Architect: _. . . refrigeration piping...the pipes wirl be on theoutside attaching on the roof so the ouiside of the i"iiai"g handles it. Headla: So Larryl do you look at that type of thing with the safetypeople? Pl ann i ng Jluly 2q, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 17 Brown: This wiII be reviewed again by the Public Safety Director. To thebest of my knowledge, as Jo Ann has eluded to, right now it only has to be concerned through the site plan review. They will however, have concerns when it goes through the actual buildi.ng permit, constructural review. Headla: So this might be involved? a little premature for them to get that Brown: Correct. Part of the new system that we are starting up will address some of the concerns of the Public Safety Department, are that a reduced sets of plans wiII be submitted t.o the City indicating any danger zones such as the one you've just mentioned and we will be kept in a command vehi.cle so if there is an emergency out here, they will have that information readily available to them. Headla: okay, that's fine. Mark, that landscaping. I tried to get of the Arboretum stuff, how do you you think thatr s appropriate? before I thought you did a good job on Iittle bit, not trying to put in some feel about the recommendation 1(a)? Do a Mark Koegler: We don't have any problem complying with that. Headla: Thatrs too bad because Irve got problems with it. I though you'd go the other way. Deciduous isnr E. a dirty word and I really would like to see deciduous trees there. I think theyrve got a lot of aesthetic value and they can. . . Olsen: We like them t.oo. Itts just the ordinance requires 50t opacity. Headla: Hot, did you measure the cross section of a deciduous tree? That really breaks it uP too and I donrE see, you can go to one type of conifer and thatrs got a different opacity than another one. I'm not sure yourre measuring that right. ...and I thiok it should be deciduous trees. OIsen: All deciduous trees? Headla: No. I think $rhat Mark has in here now is great. I hate to see it go to anymore conifers. You know where you tatked about putting .onifer" ar6und the parking Iot. r'd like lo see that deciduous- I think that $rould be very apProPriate. Conifers arenrt realty native to this area as much as the others and I just think deciduous fits in much better. If you can make them maples, thatrs all the better. conrad: I don't understand that. Yourre screening in the wintertime is what werre talking about and you'r-' saying deciduous greens and I donrt understand that at aIl. Headla: You can't look right through it. Youtre Iooking through aII those branches. Ellson: Especially a young one. Planning Jluly 2q, Commission Meet i ng I98 8 - eage 18 Headlas You know, a young conifer that high. EIIson: Six feet is rrhat.s required. Headla: In 10 years from now, do you know how high Conrad: l{e t re talking wintertime. Headla: I just think thatrs, therers a long valueyou talked about working tlro 8 hour shifts? Olsen: I think theyrre going to be open 24 hours. Headla: Did you notify the people around there ifconcer n? they grohr? there. Then, I think there I s any real Olsen: They were notified that ther^rerenrt notified of the site p1an.internal and the truck traffii, from property was up for The trucks, i t's allwhat I've heard.. . subdivision. going to be They Headla: That'sjust wondered,good? Are you problem? Olsen: Yes... Conrad: Mcclynn where wetypical 1. The applicant shall submitfollowing issues: what you wrote but with. the lights going and everything,I really don,t see a problern Uut aia-you really fo6f at-iUsatisfied that there's very Iittle pratabitity- of a I Brown: If I might make the comment. In sitting through the Last meetingr^rith L)rman Lumber and now r hear the same issue coming-op-i"guraing thenoise- The commission shourd be advised that the pubiic safety Directorhas recently put in for an order for a Jecimil meter and is worxing on theNoise Nuisance ordinance, that'!s (vhat it's been nicxnamea-iignt no,u. rthink if these problems_ do crop up at inappropriate hours, then people areobviously going to complain to the public Safety Department.. Tbey,regoing to go out there and have a meter, have a way of monitoring it andtake appropriate actions from there. I donrt have any quest j.ons. I thjnkand staff have done a nice job. IErshave very IitEle comments. This isat all so this is a real pleasure. I wildermuth moved, Ellson seconded that theapproval of Site plan Reviev, #gg_3 as shownJune 13, 1988" and subject to the following Planning Commission recommendon the plans stamped'rReceivedconditions: a revised landscaping plan addressing the it's a good plan.fun to see plansnot typical. Thiss there a motion? I thi nk l ike thisis not a The applicant either provide additionalor replace some of the deciduous trees50t winter opac i ty. evergreens forwith evergreens l and scap i ngto maintain Planning JnLy 2A, Commission Meet i ng 1988 - Page 19 The applicant provide additionat screening along the southerly andeasterly border of the enployee parking area and around theservice drive located on the north side of the building and thatthe screening include evergreens. The applicant shal-l enter into a development contract with the City and provide the City with the necessary financial sureties to guarantee the installation of these public improvements. The applicant will work with the City to provide the necessary easements or improvements which are required as a result of thefeasibility study for the upgrading of Audubon Road and Mcclynn Park. A11 stormsewer systems shaIl be constructed of reinforced concretepipe to be in accordance with the Cityrs standards for urban construction. 5. The plans shall be revised to show pond skimmer b 2 3 4 6 details. conditions of the AII voted in favor except Headla who oPposed and the motion carried. Conrad: And Dave, you don't like... Headla: The 1(a). The rest of the plan is great. APPROVAL OF },IINUTES: The applicant shall obtain Watershed District permi t . and comply with aII Headla moved, Emmings seconded to approve the Minutes of Commission meeting dated July 6, 1988 as Presented. AlI and the motion carried. the Pl ann i ng voted in favor Headla moved, EIlson seconded to aPprove the Minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated JuIy 13, 1988 as presented. AII voted in favor except Erhart and Wildermuth $rho abstained and the motion carried. OPEN DISCUSSION: Headla: on the north side of my property we have stratford Ridge Development. The builder there has been working with the staff, as far I knorr. As you go by there now, he has literally racked the land. Brought in bulldozers, hers got huge piles of wood, the land is totally stripped. 2I year old Austin Pine has been cut down. 5g to 6g year old Black Walnut. Serveral Red cedars and theyrre the oldest Red cedars in that whoLe area and we have our Red Cedar Point where we have hardly any Red cedars. He's totally changed the character of that particular Part Minnewashta Parkway. Those Red Cedars and the other stuff on the west of PI ann i ng JuLy 29, Commission Meeti ng 1988 - Page 20 side of the road-.- Are more a part of it than the mapres just to thenorth- r don't know how we approved it but r find thai Ede; prairie hasgot a poJ'icy where if a buirder comes in tike this and he cuts down theselypes ot trees. Let's say trgrs got Black walnut and retrs say it, s 2,4 -- inches in diameter- He wourd haie to reprace 24 inch equivitent of that24 inch tree. 24-L inch caliper trees. 2-I2 inch. I don't see how wecan change stratford Ridge but r donrt want to see anybody erse go throughthe damn racking of the land like I've got on the wes! side of miproPerty. Conrad: when did this Headla: Itrs going on Conrad: Didnt t we have OIsen: On the beachlot. happen ? right now. a tree removal plan on that? Conrad: Only on the beachlot but not back. Dacy: What we need to do is go back and look at thego out there and review the site to see because theand the road construction and utilities. We can gowhat was approved to see if they violated anythin;. Erhart: rf r remember that right, that one came in here and basicarryreport was that on the west side of the bourevard the term row quarit|trees which r assumed to be Box Elders but on the rake side there wasquality trees so we onry appried the tree removaL portion to the rakeside. The conclusion we nia was that this was a bunch of Box Elders.yourre telling us it,s Black Walnut and Red Cedar. do me a favor and review thewith staff? Do you have time plans and specs andgrading of the streetsout there and revi ew the high Not, Mi nutesto do Conrad : That I sof the meetL ngs OIsen: I Iooked at too bad. trlould where that came be happy to. remember visiting thatthose trees . .. Headla: Yes, Itve got some neighbors that are really ticked off at it.Itrs surprising, weII, they all noticed the Black Wainut but those Redcedars, they aren't rearry a picturesque tree but iErs so much characteralong that road. you inthat and see vrhat we did? Head 1a :I rm WerdDacy : Conrad: yes, $rhy donrtsee if rre should. . . golng to be traveling heavy this next week. you take a look and see if we did what we did and site with the Forester and we walked and Headla: yourre right. Right up there those were Box Elders- elaininq JuLy 2A I Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 2t Olsen: The trees right along Minnewashta parksray... Hnmings: I think theyrre being removed on higher ground thanpond area is. Headla: Oh yes, but he's just going through with a bulldozer. Conrad: Do you think they're doing what they rrerenrt allowed where the to do? Headla: I think we did not, look at that correctly. Irm suggesting wereview what vre looked at but also that we look and see if adopting the Eden Prairie policy of having the builder replace comparable coverage orcaliper. Thatrs a very Iogical way to do it. Conrad: Canrt we already do that? Canrt we does something contrary to what we granted? them to recreate ? somebody force Hnmings: I donrt think thatts what happened here. EIlson: Thatts what hers saying something in place to prevent it but hers saying now for the future have Headla: I don't think we can control it but Irm looking out on a barren Iand now for a long time and it's a shame that if we don't learn from that mistake, it will make Ehe next one a lot better. Conrad: This has happened before and werve put in some things with staffts help in terms of a removal plan and vre just didn'E want it to happen again and here's a case where I guess we havenrt. I'm not pointing the finger at anybody. I think we didn't take a good look at it.. Headla: AIso, I'd like to see this policy, if everybody agrees, implemented before they start work on that beach. Looking at those oaks, Irm scared to death that if they bring a very good size Bobcat, a 510 or bigger, running around down there atong the oak trees, sure as heck, in 2 years youtre going to see a l-ot of those oaks trees dyiog. Conrad: Since yourre motivateC on this one, would you stay staff and see what they're doing and give us a quick review meeting we have. in on touch wi thit the next do that right now if Canrt we go back and Erhart: I think thatrs really a gooal point. We've taLked about trees but therers something that werve mi=sea here and that is damage to oaks during construction wili surely, they'1I get the wilt disease because I've seen it dor,rn in my area. yoi'Uuifi a h5use in these beautiful oaks, they think ttrey nave a ieautiful yard and 2 years later they're half gone' olsen: we did go out with the Eorester with the develoPer to show him where construction should be. lihen they show uP... Erhart: rs there anyr^ray, r know the City now piling junk, Scott Harr, the Code Enforcement an enforcer in terms of maybe this is the has and Planning JuLy 2A, Commission Meeting 1988 - Page 22 opportunity we havetree removal thi ng . ammun i ti on . to use Maybe tha t what pos j tion we need to is help us enforce to arm him wi th more of this some more Dacy: It would be nice if wethey get on the builder...andisnrt going to hold them back. had some they get more staff.going and a I tm ser i ous I i ttle stake bec a use and a rope Erhart: could scott Harr help you out in that area? He comes out with agun doesn't he, so to speak? Dacy: Hers a fuII commission officer- Erhart: Is therebetter enforce? something we can do to help you and Scott together to Dacy: It alrrrays helps to have those specific conditions ofbecause then $re can show them the piece of paper but if thegone. approval trees are Ellson: But thendo it and then heback on. the consequences does it and right Itrs one thing to say !,re doort have anythi ng too. no $, you can I tto f all Erhart: Maybe what rde could do is to ask staffdescribe to us what Eden prairiers ordinance istalked about Eden prairie's ordinance. I thinkgood. in a future meeti ng because Barb and I werve agreed that i to ha vet's Dacy: They are sending a copy. Erhart: Maybeover that and improve on it can take some time at a future meeting to kindif and vrhat part of it would be applicabJ.e. we Perhaps focus on oaks and construction- we see and of 90can al so wildermuth: r was 100king at the ordinances last night and r didn't seeanything in regards to seivice roads "iound plant buirdings and industrialareas. I talked to you about the service ro;d, talking u6ort the graveltype service road - I would think that the Fire Departient would be veryinterested in the targe buildirt; ;;;; as this r,rcciynn Bakery. rt,s goinsto be 28 feet talt. I.?*.a fir6 "qoi;*"nt standpoint, I would think theve'ould be very intere"t:d.i!.having'" '...ui.. roai at i,"a"-i"r.i"i.''aiI='the gravel around the building. Brown: The public safety Director has been examining the fire r-ane safetycodes and the Uniforn euitAing CoAe ana-ne recently iound ouc, as Iong asthere are some trade-9ff: in i."i;; [iiI ouiraing sprinkrered and once rhebuilding has this f":lr1!I: arr trr6v-iearry require is a paved surface onone side.and an inpass just Eo tt" 3ia"i of the building. you don,tnecessarily need it aII the ,uy ..ounJ-Ihe entire Uuifaing.- Dacy: we just adopted Ehe sprinkring system rast year so we have seen... ' Pl a,nn i ng Commission Meeting' July 29, 1988 - Page 23 Conrad: I see under Open Discussion, Comprehensive plan, Chapter. What does this mean? Implementati on Dacy: This means that it willjust m i scommun i ca ted . be on the August 17th agenda. Mark and I EIIson moved, Emmings seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting eras adjourned at 9:00 p.m.. Submitted by Barbara Dacy City Planner Prepared by Nann Opheim 1-