09-21-88 Agenda and Packet/*
CALt TO ORDER
OLD BUSINESS
TH 101 Realignment, Update
Rosemount Inc. Proposal:
a. Redevelopnent PLan Amendment, City of Chanhassen.
b. Review Land SaIe Agreement.
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AGENDA
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
WEDNESDAY, SEPIEMBER 21, 1988, 7:30 p.M
CHANHASSEN CITY HALL, 690 COULTER DRIVE
Sign Variance request to allow a 45 square
1ow profile sign instead of the permittedground low profile sign.
SuperAmerica, Located at the southwest corner
IIwy . 41 :
a. Conditional Use Permit Request to permitproperty zoned BN, Neighborhood Business
of Hwy.7 and
gas pumps onDistrict.
foot ground
24 square foot
b
Approval for a 3,200 square foot convenienceSite Plan
s tore .
4
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Conditional Use Permit for a12.1 acres of property zonedlocated on Galpin Boulevard *
S tockdale .
landscaping contractor I s yard onA-2, Agricultural Estate andmile north of Hrdy. 5, Dave
5 North West Nursery located on the west
south of County Road 18, Mark VanHoff,
side of Hwy. 101, just
appl icant:
a.
b
Conditional Use Permit for expansion of a contractor'syard on property zoned A-2, Agricultural Estate
wetland A.l-teration Permit
wetland
to al-ter a Class A and B
6. Golf Driving Range and Miniature colf Course Operation,property zoned A-2, Agricultural Estate and Iocated at County
Road 117 and Hwy. 5, John Pryzmus:
Zoning Ordinance Amendment to Chapter 20, Article IV,Division 3, regarding standards for golf dri\ring rangeswith or without miniature golf courses to provide regu1a-tion of signage, to proviCe regulations as to light stan-
dards, and to establish hours of operation beyond sunset.
a
*ITEM #5 HAS BEEN TABLED UNTIL OCTOBER 19, 19B8*
b Conditional Use Permit Amendment to install Iight stan-
dards, extend hours of operation beyond sunset and per-
mitting the installation of a sign.
*ITEM #7 HAS BEEN TABLED UNTIL OCTOBER 5, 1988*
7. Zoning Ordinance Amendment to amend Section 20-42L
the wetland Ordinance to Clarify that the City has
over dredging of wetlands in public waters which
in lakes wholly within the City of Chanhassen.
( l1) of
controlare located
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NEW BUSINESS
Site Plan Approval for a self-service car wash and automotive
service station located on property zoned BH, Business
Highway located at the northeast corner of Hwy. 5 and TH 101,
Amoco.
Site Plan Approval for a 25,000 square foot of f ice/warehouse
building at the southeast corner of Hwy. 5 and Park Drive,
( Park Place Office,/Warehouse), Dolphin Construction, Inc.
OPEN DTSCUSSION
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES
ADJOURNMENT
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX .I47
' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
UEMORANDUM
IO: Planning Commissi
FROM: Planning Staf
DATE: September 15, 1988
SUBJ: TH 101 Realignment Update
Attachments
Attached is the packet that was presented to tshe City Council atthe September 12, 1988 meeting. The purpose of the consultantrspresentation to the Planning Conmission this evening is merely toupdate the Planning Commission regarding this proje-t. FredHoisington will be present to present seven alternatives. AIsoto be presented are the criteria that the City Council will useevaluate the various alternatives.
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Evaluation Cri teria
Proposed Seven Alternat.iviesCity Council Minutes dated AugusL 22, l-gg9City Council Staff Report dated September 12, 1988 neeting
Land use Consultants
KEY
101
TRUNK HIGHI.'AY IOI EVALUATION CRITERIA
ConLinuityl.
,
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
L4-
15.
LeveIs of Service at Key IntersecEions
Traffic Saf et Desi n Standards
Se aration of Throu h from Downtoun Traffic
Downtown Accessibili ty
Ot. he r Business /Propert y AccessibiliEy
Residential Accessibili t.y
Pedestrian S3f qLf /Accessibili Ly
Rgsidential Impacts
Pro jec t Cost/Fiscal ResponsibiliEy
Accept.ance by Mn DOT
Abili tv Eo Meet Accelerated Hr,ry 5 Schedule
Environmental Impacf s
Development ImpacEs
Public Acceptance
7300 Metro Btvd.
Sulte 525
Edlna. MN 55435
(6r2) 835-9960
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Land Use consuttants
STATE TRUNK HIGIII.'AY IOl
ALTERNATI VES EVALUATION
ALTERNATIVES
CRITERIA r23456
l.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
l0l Continuiry
Levels of Ser v iceTraffic Saf etyTraffic Separation
Downtown AccessOther Bus AccessResidential AccessPedestrian AccessResidential ImpactsProject. Cos ts
MnDOT Acceptance
Schedule Adherence
Environment
Development ImpactsPublic Acceptance
+A
-A
lternative
lternaEive Satisf ies Cri terion
Does Not Satisfy Criterion
73OO Metro Btvd.
Sulte 525
Edina. MN 55435
(612) a35-9960 ,,'i.l,l.!,1"i
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T.H. 101 REALIGNMENT SIUOY
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T.H. 101 REALIGNMENT STUOY
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. Cit1, Counci I t4eetj.ng f .uqu=t 22, tsgg {
Counci Lman Johnson:
neighbor,s property.
tl4ayor Hanirton moved, e.ouncilman Geving seconded to approve a 7.4 foot varianceto the.side yard setback for the const;uction oi a rg' x 20' boat cover. A.r.rvoted in favor exc€pt counci lman e"yt "na councirman ;orrnso. ;; -"d"; anl themotion carried with a vote of 3 to i.
PT]BLIC HEARING: LYMAN LT]I,BER INDUSTRIAL DEVETOPME}II REVE{UE BONDS.
lrayor Hanilton called tlE public hearirg to orde!.
lElror Hamilton: !{e tave. a.p:blic hearing to consider the issuance of onemillion dollars in irrlustri;I a"""rogn ni ;;ril; bords for the L],man Lunber
::Tffi:.1.#iliry in chanhassen. ri tr,.."-i"y.L here who roura-wisiE spear
councilman Horn moved, councilman c€ving seconded to crose the ptrbric hearing.AII voted in favor ard the motion carri&
Resorution #88-88: courrcilman Johnson moved, councilman rbrn secorded toapProve tle issuance of 9J ,AA6,0A6. g0 in industrial dev;f ogn;nt-i""Ei"'U.n"j::.-tr''"" Lunber's expansion ri"iiiiv i; d;;;"".. Alr voted j.n favor and themotlon carried-
PT'BLIC HEARING: IH 101 REALIGIME\E: ,A. CO{PRH{EIIS IVE PIAN TDCP AI,TBIDMENT TO A!,IE[ID THE TRANSPORfAION CrnPIER TO.. IDE}ITIFY TI{E REALIGbI,rSIT OE 11{ 1OI.
B. ADoET OET'ICIAL }TAP, EIRST AND SrcOND RBDING -
C. . CONSIDTR ATIIIIORIZING COIIDE"TMTION.
D' srrE PIAN REVrEfi FoR A Aa,ggq seuARE Fogr sHopprNc csrrER (HTDDEN vALLEycEI\lrR), NoRIr{ oF raKE DRrvE EAsr, JUST EAsr or q-suernerrd, ffi- all-inrcauHOMES CORPORAT ION.
Public present:
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Narne
Jerry Schlenk
Stephen J. I4acoonaldIlissey Kersch
Gruck Bye
Scott & Kirsten Melencamp
Roger & Dorothy Do!"rning
ULrico Sacchet
Address
225 i,lbst 78th Streer
B0l7 Cheyenne Spur
271 Hidden tane
27I Hidden tane
8137 Dakota t ane
7200 Juni.per Road
8071 Hidden Ci rcle
L4
(P.o. Box G51)
therers another alternative too, he can buy 2.4 feet of his
Cj ty Council l.betir - August 22, LgAa {
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8040 Hidden Circle
8022 Dakota Avenue
8023 Dakota Avenue
8121 Hidden Court
7338 Eronti.er ltail
8136 Dakota [ane
8136 Dakota tane
7425 Frontier Trail
224 l,ts*st 78th Street
8140 Hidden Court
52O 35gg !'trest 80th, Bloomington
8131 Dakota tane
8100 Hi.dden @urt
8120 Hidden Court
8191 Hidden Court
8170 Hidden Court
321 Sinnen Circle
8091 Hidden Court
8181 Hidden Court
8143 I'{arsh Drive
8170 I',larsh Drive
8163 Marsh Drive
30I Sinnen Circle
P.O. Box 103, Chanhassen
3I4I Hidden Court
8121 Dakota tane
8109 Dakota t ane
330 Sinnen Circle
1800 l,leri tor Tower
9g [ake Drive East
Mayor Hamilton: Just as a little background. I would like to just, I knoweverybody's here to corment on this item and that,s good. r woird ask that ifthere are representati.ves frcrn a neighborhood or a slreet or sqnethirg that cans[Eak. for a group of people, I u,ould orefer to have you do that rathei thaneverybody corning up and sayj.ng the same thj.ng. I lhlnk rne know what yourconcerns are. we received your letters- Iverve read the planning ccnm-issionmeeting Minutes so wetre awire of your concerns. tnie r,rrould like to hear frorn youagain however if there,s anl.thing new that you'd like to add but iusi-io kird ofconsolidate the ccrments ard to iave a rittie bit of time, r,a a$reciate itthere are spokespeople, if you can cq,'e forward at that time. tiis i.s, I thinka. conmunity probrqn. rtrs not just a neighborhood probrern on one or the otherside of the highwav. t's a pr6brem rhar-rhi; -ity nui u""" tivi"g-tJ Iear wittrfor a mrnber of years. r thi;k there's been scrne corments made that were ratherupsetting to me about the staff and about the process that this city has gonethrough ard itrs crear to me tiat sorne of the fupre making these c&rments don,tunderstard the process rhat you need to 9o through to accoiptish wfraf;sattqnpting to be done here. thi.s procesi was started r guess in 1gg0 rooking atrearigrrnent arternatives for $I ror. r'4any plans have be&r pru""ntJ. -ir,u."
hasnrt been any action taken on ttrem becaus6 there q,as nevei a pressing issue ora need. to do anything. At the present time qE feer Ehat there is u .r"& Eo dosomething to cqne up vri th an aLignrnent. @nsequently, we,ve tried to !iU",additional informarion ro try to heJ.p us make ihe ueii aecision possiuie. what
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Philip schloss
I'lichael Wittrock
Stephen Wigg
Greg Gniterko
Jim I'{ady
Hugh Eaulds
Karlm Knutson
Brad Johnson
Jack Atkins
Dean & Joan Stumerf ieldIarry Guthrie
Robert & Cindy |fyers
Doug & Traci tnwnanJeff & Holly peters
lrary & l(ay Eidqn
Ebbie lrleigelBill Streepy
David Clapp
Doug & Helen Chase
Ryan Johnson
cary Disch
Randy Irnker
Kim Heikkinen
Bernard Edeli.neider
Rich Fears
Howard ShartE
Richard Donnay
Tqn & Sue Lelunann
J.W. Cook
C€ne Berg
Your Honor ard mqnbers of the City Counci I, what I,d like tothe feasibility study team first of all, ati'oi wtrom you know.
we're trying to do is to select a ri.ght-of-way so that should the road be buirt,we can telr ltrDot where we rrould prefer, as a cqrmuni ty, to have ttris-roaabuilt. you have seen a couple of alternatives.. vE think there.."-"oo. others.There's been a lorg process of .a tot of people involved. - i-r;;";;; iI=a rc".city staff or council or planning cfimis;io;. There have u"e., s"v".ii-ergineerirg firms invorved in this whole process. rt.s not =oo"tr,i[ that s]e,vedone r'rithout a lot of input frcrn a r.ot of' peolie wrro. sr:ppos.arv-roroJso,nethrngabout highray develolment. There are a roi oi question-s thai ;J-1"-;ansr'lered yet. I'rhen the project r.rourd be done for one thing. rtre runaingquestions have not been answered so there are sonE questions that need to beresorved that lre do not have the ansr^ers to. i wantea to pass on soine of thosethings to-you'- Keep that in-mird .=. yo, n k" four ccnments. r appreciate thatand r wourd rike to rhen car.r. ttre pubi ic n".iiiq to order. v,,at r wiu, do istake cqments fron anybody r,*ro r"ouid wish to;ie cqments. l€ wilr not, unressr tm. overruled. make a decision on t,.is tnis e-vLing. i uii.r' ti,.i.-i""'addi tionar. information that needs t" u" gutrr.i.a ard additionar alternativesthat need to be rooked it so orce vo"..il.nt= are made and itrs a part of thepublic record, Le will then so baci ard a. .aJiti".J;;;;J; Lt'.;;.cqments into account and reiearch the itsn "*" *o.a and r.e,l1 have to discussit scrne more. vEtII have Council aiscussion-lonj.ght al,so.
Don Ashrrorth: r think it r.rourd be herpfur if we courd, most of the peopre hereheard the report as it !,rent to the pra-nning cqmission. A nunber of conmentsrrere made regarding arternatives ard lhat iype or progress tt.t -."v-uI-*u.i"
regarding those arrernarives ard sraff has ib.ni "ig"iti.u.J-u-r"-i"Iiry t.yingto took inro ar' astrEcts- r.was hoping to .[na . iittr.-t-ir or-riil^:i.t eoi.,gthrough wtrat has been done since thi eianning @mnrssron meet'r,n. tie do haveDon Ringrose here from BRI^I to 9o through =*i oi tto.". r..A ri6l=ir,9to.,-
|4ayor Hamilton: That's a good idea. Iare can update you frorn what,s happenedsince the plannJ.ng Connission time.
Barbara Dacy: tlhat d rike to do is have Mr. Hoi.si.ngton review the pranning
Conmi ssion action ard then he,1l i ntroduce ttr. ninqroi. from BRw.
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Ered Hoisington:
do is inlroduce
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l''ayor
'amirton: Ferhaps Ered you courd te}l us and r,et everybody know h,t,,o youare ard how long you,ve been involved in thj.s project.
Fred Hrcisington: Fred Hoisington and I am a rand planni ng consurtant and r havebeen involved in the City of Chanhassen for about tn" turi 3 I,z2 years. wefirst became involved wilh our efforts to resolve sorne of tr,.."a"r.iogn ntconcerns in downtown chanhassen ard then rater became invorved with whll r.,,e carlthe broadened study area which dealt with answeri ng " rot -or-tne -qu""tion"
oraccess that were not answered, really r,rere posed by the downtown 6.":."t. i.rhathe came up with in the broadened study area study, were reconmendations thatdeart with access to rhe major trunkline systqns through in" iitv-.i6r,anhassen.i$e deart to a great extent with TH r0l, rH 5 ard futur;, n"u.r"n ?o.urJ-,-n ,tz.So thatrs kird of been our involvsnent with you. In thj.s "u.", ,^. .."'coordinati.ng the feasi.biriEy study team on beharf of m" ciiv-or &unnr"""n.The folks hE have involved Jn thji process, BRW, Don Ringro* ,to ls
"neuO
ofthe feasi.bitity study for BRw has ueen in thi.s process 16r reariy quit.-.",n.
Lt,
J'City,council }4eerj.ng -{tr=a 22, LgBg
i- fIlS-"I^!rX: Howard presron, r",ho is also wirh BRrl,, is rheir j n_house project
i ::":?:: :?r rh,is parricutar project ard who has a grear famj.liarity rith r.r.,da:-r He usecl Eo work there v*ri.ch makes him a real resouice for us. Jim- Benshoof wtrois the lead traffic engineer in this case, who is the one that j.s crrarged w1ih-evaruating the a,r ternatives you'[ be seeing here in a short time. rh6 purposeof this meetirq has real.Iy charged since. th6 rast tjme you reeie here. vlir*'yoot'ere here on the 3rd of August to meet $rith the plannin! Connission, una i gi.".those things happen. orne of the things that we determiied e,,as that r."e could notprovide the Courrci I r"ri th the information that t€ felt !,,as needed in order tomove ahead with a decision on this critical issue this evenirq. i{e Hereoriginally looking for an apSrroval frcrn ttre council. vre did isk approval fronthe Plannj.ng Ccnmission ard no$, werre not sure hre want you to approve what ltethought re wanted y9u-to ?pprove only 3 v,eeks ago. I,ltrai re,re iooking tortonight is input. lrle're lookirg for that frqn both the Council ard frcrn nrsnbersof the ar.rdience. r?ris decision is too critical, too much involved to make adecision fast ard that's a bit contrary to what r told you in the past butscmetimes things do change a rittle bit. so let me terl you what kind ofschedure that l"e r.rould like to have this move aronq on. ionight we'd rike toreview alternatives. SePtember 12th, we'd like to ccme back ind at least gi.veyou a staff report of vrhere r.te are with Ehe collectioir of additional infor ationard additionar analysis. rhen on septernber 26th r.,e \^,outd like to be able toccne back to you with a reccnmerdation. !€ rnay come back with the samereccnmerxiation t€ came to the Planning Connission wich. AII I can tell you atthis point is that I'm cautiously more optjmistic about the possibility Lfrat
- there may be one or tr.!., other alternatives than r vras 3 weeks ago. t{ov, to
i .:i!:rate the objectives of the study, rE have ro define, as rne think, as IErtI gf.this process, a place for TH I0I to go. !e're afraj.d if r"e don,t definl ttratr- talrly soon, we,ll lose sqne options. The wirdow of opportunity is goirry toclose and we simply lion't be able to deal with this crilicat issue in the nearterm. one of the things that r^e think ue i.mportant is that rH r01 havecontinuity through the city of chanhassen. rt i. the only road through thiscomuni ty that has any chance of having of providirg continuity north to south.A lot of the trips that will use and do use- TH 10r ioday, origi.nate outside thestudy area ard pass
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conpletery through the study area. -
Nor", oie could argue thatthe aLternatives. we.rre showing tonigit don,t reirry represent continuity: rn myjudgment, r think they do. Another thing that we'ie goi.,g to be extranel-yconcerned about ard it has to be an objective because r,tn6t n"" made it anobjective ard that is, that the revel of service at the majoi intersectionsalong TH 5, the leve1 of servi.ce at those intersections be sufficient toacccrnodate traffic welr. the thj.rd one is that r.,e separate truffi" through fromdowntown traffic. A fourth is thar we deverop g."*.ti i". iiy -souna aesign. rnother words, vle-can't create accident prone n-ighway a".ign"'u"-" part of thisprocess. Gre of the thj ngs that. $re,re contj nuiuy- and tie audience here willrecognize is fiscar responsi.bi r i ty. rE's very ai.iricuri lo-"i*pry use or takeany of the alternati.ves and impLement Ehem no rnatter the cost. some of thecosts, the costs wiLl be snhstantially higher for sorne of these a1ternativesthan perhaps others. the risks that r taiked to tr,e pra"":.nt -onmission arouthaven't gone away ard there are t!,,o of them. one of che ii=i"-i" that there isa shopping center in the way of the south 1.T of the proposed aLternative. tvtlat- that could mean j.s if thaE leg j.s closed, thic alrernrriir" ii cioseO for at1: intensive purposes. rf that shopping center is buirt. t," ..co.r risk is a,- a9ily in. Ehe consEruction of ltl 5 which is now on "n u"""i"..cJ schedule. oneoI the Ehings vE've 1earned since we last met with the planning Ccnrnission r.asthat r"e vrourd not require additional right-of-way should we uJSpt tn" north reg
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City Courcil tEeLi( - .qususr 22, LgBa
id.ty Counci L r\beEj ng -( rgust 22, Lgag {
option. The ccnmon reg betv,een IH l0l and Tlt 5 from the due north reg to creatPlains Brvd'- That has been accomodated ard so we,re sornewhat r-ess concernedthat there wirl be a deray for Ehar purpose. ,,har we wi, t;t lo Jo-lno ,tut*f 5: trv]r,s at this poinl is to make =ir." ,". stay on schedule with that andstill satisfy the needs of the ciEy or ct.nnu.=.n in the process. the reason !,rechanged course. is ccrnprex - as you'tnow,'-tr,.-erun.,;ng -c#;;;i;;'.;.Ir"o
.narternative wtrich q,as realJ.y tw6 "rternaurr".. The preferred alternative uasthe north Ieg option. wtrir" tn" ehnning cili""io.,'ill;;;; ;;"-"alternatives, the last ccnment made by tfre conmissio.,. i-tni.f-itlias it,schairman, there has to be an arternative 'tr'ruf'riu ,oit r,"i". v rJth. pranningccnmission did r,ot want to do r^:as forecio""--io..u". the possibirity that rr.would be able to build ,*t 101 and I think ,n i tf,"y r,rere telli.ng you arxt tellingthi's cqrmuni tv was that if r.e can ;. ia
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north reg option, fine but if raecanrt' r€ r^'ant to nnke sure that at teast ii can be buirt. A secord choice wasof course, to use the south lp. S. ,*-ti.,.rqii about that for a r.rtrile and roedecided as hard or as nany alt6rnativei rh;a'il;"" been consider"a in-rn" p."t,we should stilr continue to evaluate more and r^e have aone thai. anoirrer ttrinqthat's happened is that the. wards "." u"gin;i.ry to show scxne interest indevelolment of their property. Ore of de things that they,ve jndicated is thatthey may wish to rerocate at-least moaestiy -Tt- r0r so qxe.rook at that as anopportunity. lihether it. produces -scrnethini ior us is questionable but itcertainly is an opportunity ard of course io..nount has announced that it hasselected the city of Granhissen ror itis-new-ilcir.ity and since it,s next to theward property, it aLso opens an opportunity for some additional consideration ofalternatives. tlow, we aia meet ,iii, lt o.i'i"-L," i.,t"r.r".,ing periods since thePlanning cormission met- Essentiarly, what we ire saying or what my feelingslErsonalry are about this process is- that ,,,e can ue "uuiior.ry *o.l ofi-i*i=ti"than r,l,e were before. Especiarry .uout ,n"in"i one of the other alternatives canbe acco'-nodated - r am oplimistii but not .= *r"i, so that he can do it on theaccelerated t 5 schedu-le. ltow the
-nei9r,[o..-Iui ."0 some good questions ast'€lr ' Questions that can not be put ..ia. u.ra-qu"stions that we have i ndicatedmust be answered as Dart of thi.s ieasiUiiity study process. one of those is
1oi1e and the noise impacts on the subdivi=ions to the south. Hestrian accessto downtown arxl e-superette. rtaffic on take Drive Easr. r. "t[".-"".i", givenEhe different scenarios, which of tr,"* woura-rrIve the most detri.mental effecttraffic wise on Lake orive East- r^,r,.iir.i -it,"'! i.ntersecti.on at Great prainsBlvd', as proposed, would rvork- How eaiy it woura be for resi.dents to-get ontoIake Drive East and wherher rhere !,ould L "riii"i""i ;6=-;;;]I;;iln, .n.signalization 1o they could get onto *,ul-.o"aiiy. one of the questions orconcerns raised also had to do with the reLativefy minor level of serviceirnprovenents that would have existed ,iti., -tn -p.op.sal at creat plains Blvd. andthe new north leg or the proposed j. ntersection' of- tH tgl. ri"afiyl--tf.leneighbors also asked for a request for the considerati.on of other arternatives.vE have, as a team, feasibility study team, looked at those alternatives ard notonry the ones that rne're going to show you this eveni ng but at a muitiiuae orothers, many of which do not work fron i gecrnetric stoiopoina -o; ';;;; -;.' ."
lr.towing you tonight are ones that qre uj.n( ao r"orx geometrj."uriy. -so-j,.t ,..,orike to do is present those ard. then simpry ask you to rqnember that these havenot been tested for their Eraffic carryi.ig- capabirities uno u,.t i,.-"Jn-noasuggest to you thi.s eveni.ng, buE roe will by the 26th of Septernber, ttul tn ywiLr in fact work- so with Ehat, v,hat r'd- like Don Ringrose to do is to make abrief presentation of the four arternati.ves than we,d rike to t"xu input ard cjetsorne ideas. rf you have any other suggestions, werd ]-ove to hear Ehqn and ure,dl-ove Eo hear others frcm the neighbori-as we_Ll.
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City Council rbetjrf - August 22, l9B8
Counci lrnan llorn: I have one question. lEre any eliminated because of cost?
Fred Hoisington: The onry one that has been eriminated because of cost has beenthe bridging arternative that rarould bridge tlle rairroad, TH 5 and so forth r,,hichis about 1,0 times the cost of an at grad6 cost.
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Don Ringrose: the rast week has been, as Fred indicated, as rather hectic onefor the people that are involved with this arrl arso as Fred irdicated, whirewe've developed sone ideas, qE r,rant to present thqn here to you, bear in mindthis q,as alr acccrnprished in about the last week ard it has iot had theopportunity of being thoroughly tested from an engineering and trafficstardpoint. At the same time, lre aren't about to present to you or discuss witl:the pubr ic anything that kind of at our gut level re don,t feit nnkes sense orthat q,ouldn't presunably [Ess reasonable tests of erg ineerirg principres. vdehave this evening four alternatives and the council r,.s ."c"irr-.d redirctions ofthese that you've had an opportunity to rook at. Eor the neighborhood ard thecitizens, r appreciate this is the first opportunity to beconre familiar withthese. rilr go through than briefry ard then enterlainirq questions that youhave. The first one which is presented is essencialry .ei"rlea to as thecurrent proposal. That is basic design that city staff, ourserves ard thDotstartd out with about 6 to 8 weeks ago wilen thj.s whole process startd. Itconsi.sLs of the rerocarion of mt r0r easterly of existin! creat prains, crossingover and then swingi.ng south onto take Drive ard ttEt i.s the portion which vas -
discussed through tire plannirg ccnmission ard the neighborhood meetings that
v,lere held prior to the planning Ccxnnission. On the drawing, we,ve sh6wn anextension of that irrustrating how that would conEi.nue wesi ard then Eurn to thesouth and connecting to existing TH l0I. Gle of the issues which r^ras notdiscussed at length because r^e didn't feer it was particularly of concern forthe neighborhood, was how this linkage wculd occur. thDot had made it clear tous early on that the T j ntersection, that Hould be take Drive ard then a Tintersection to existing TH l0l would be unsati.sfacEory in terms of the TH l0rfunction. so this drawing represents the originar proposar expanded to includethe rinkage to mr rgl. rhen we arso have, in light of the wari prolErty casuardiscussions r think is the best r^,ay to describe those, and the more- specificproposals for Rosqnount, expan<3ed our sco[E of thinking in the sense ihut trrehorizons that we can look at here to see iow this new ictivity and new interestr.,ouId relate to this existing prohLgn. ent3ring thi.s one time, ard probabr-y notthe only time to assure where haste mi.ght have made waste in it biause r thinkas r^re|ve exparded the horizons our thinking here, r"e have generated sorneadditionar- alternatives that have genui ne merit. wtlat r{e then have shown on thesame drawing, the extension of lake Drive, the proposal for a Market Blvd.connection and the connection on into the basj.c center of downtor"n Chanhassen, sccnmerciar district. r€ think that as the advantage of tying Ehis erneig ing jobge{ttlf to the exi sting retail cormerc j.al- distr icE of Ehe aj ty. This asr irdicated is the originar proposar. This is also the prop6sal which trreneighbors $rere very concerned about. primari.ry, as r underitand it, because theproximity of relocated rH l0r to the homes ato-{ trre northerly side of Lnesubdivision and the noise and the issues that they had raised and Fred touched
?l: th.n takirg. j.nto accounr prjmari.ly rhe cjriz;n,s or the neighboihoodJssues, we said is there scrnethi.ng rne can do to address those in terms of adesign in terms of some rerocation. with respect to the originrr piin,-*^* ".ntalk about noise berms. noise walls, and scrne of those i ssues Uut r *rinX youwere rookirg for somethj ng more furrlamentar jn terms of an arternative rocation.
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'- tity Councj I l€er j ng { uVusr 22, Lgga {
In scrne cases $re have to stretch our mird a litEr-e bit even to stretch ourimagination frqn an engineering standpoint to corne up with these but r.e ferteven though I can,t support sorne of thsn frcm an engineering "t.napoint una ,*
9:?:,! Py: a drawing ro ralk abour, it's difficulr ro have a discussion. rcnrnK Enrs represents one that farrs into that category. Essentiarly the samenortherry leg but moving the nev, TH lor to the nort6, i=""ntiuiiy niirr.ybetween take Drive arrJ existing TH 5 swinging to the vrest arxl then to the south.The objective here is trying to trxlt scme ipaie retr^een the new road and the
:Ii:iiy ryIl:": That's rhe-only reat "tunge.- The ccmplication of thar is it,rn scine respects, frcrn an engineering and irom a fi.scai =tunapoint,
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rrasto be considerd, I'd say siity. lh6n you ioof "t it fror, r."e have three roadsarr running east/r^rest in a coriidor or iuoui-agg to 500 feet. There,strsnerdous cost invorved in duprication or racitities. nr.re,s -sGitlntiar
costinvolyed in acquisition of profurti"" t" ,*r"-tt is rrappen ana ;i;-;''"""certainly dravr the rine so it r"ould r,rcrt jecmeirica,y aru r.rcuiJ-irn"iion, itdoesnrt have a 10t of ccnmon sense to it- the rest of the $resterly portion isthe same. Trre third arternative is erhat is -iererrea to as the no.tn'i"g. Thisis what. the planning cormission iaentiiiea--!-ii,"i. preference if it courd beacconpl ished. prior to the- planning Comj.ssion,s coisideration, -* -f,JJ .:i*Benshoof, the traffic consurtant tnit,s reen aoing att ti.," ,-i['r"i trr ciay,did sfile analysis on this north leg .ft"rn.liu". I want to be sure youurderstand the function here becauie I'm noi convinced ti.,. aiuri.,!-: iiJ.a..a.=it as it should- The intention here for tn" tn rgr through traffic is to moveon the existing aligrrnent up to TtI 5, then au.t o. rlest on TH 5 and the north onwhat we call the north leg. So southbourd is to this location, " iigi;t n..riturn, a left hand turn and so forth. rt is nor intended trrat iu roi'ti.tii"
T.ll :: ]fV-_rlsnion so like rhar. i,Jherher or nor rhis ,oouu "u".,-L iermitted,rn rerms.ot tie crose spacing, etc. by
^hDot
i-s questionable. rt is-siown onthe drawing as somethirg thai rve'd riie to consid-er. l*,i r" ir," - intI.I."tr on",this inEersection and tiis intersection,
"un-u."omodate the turning movqnencs.Physically the southbourd or northbourd. fn puiti.ular, the left turn movanentsthat !,rour-d occur here and here, that is uy tr,!-introouction of a doubre reftturn rane at this rocation ard this rocation, the predicted reft turn movarentscan be accqnodated through the i.ntersection.' rtre issue that surfaces with thisdesign is not the turn movsnent_lut .E1.. weavj ng movsnent. That is, for exanrpie,in the design voru'nes there's g00 vehicles in--ine pear hour that will ccrnesouth, turn onto existing TH 5, want to move over two ranes ard make the .r-efthard turn to go south in a distance or aooui,-it,s less than r,000 feet. t.hentte presented this to M"ryt :: our meeEing last rreek the ans$rer whicn Lfriy gaveus lias the answer qrhich I think we would have predicted that no, ii'-can-noc worxin their opinion ard that they can't suggest tlut * shourd even pursue it. Thesoluti'on, and we had tarked about it ouiiervei in t".r" of the concept of iheconmon section isn't totarly i.nvarid if there's sufficient space in *r,i"n thutv'reaving rnovsnent can occur but this jsn't suffj.cjent space. 'Eor u ,*1]i. \$3 !.rereactuar]"y lookirg for arternatives to where we could move this back uf .na ....t.
:p999 by moving it to the-east. Hovrever, then r+e start lookl..ng at aiarunenrbuildings ard arr kirds of major issues on the north side so "6'i" j'r=i ."ri^:one, werre creating one problan to solve anoEher. &rt erha t surfaced out or thediscussions of last week ard it realJ.y ,.. jn in form of a brai.nstormi.rgsessi'on i n our off ice when the entire desj gn came on t,.Hnesday morni.ng rast qEek
:::r:Y-..yp_by a meering rr. t4nDoE Wednesdat afrernoon ar whjch poinr aII r,re hadwds Lr.ssue paper sketches of sdne of these thi.ngs which r,E rere presented butwhat surf:ced out of that discussion is a fourui arternati.ve whi.ch we think issubstantially dj.fferc.nt buE it begj.ns to aaaress more accuraEely or more
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City CounciJ- rEetj{- f,ugust 22, L98A
appropriately alr of these. rtrs not per fect but it addresses r think morepeople's concerns j.n a better way than most. It. consists, in a sense it,s amodification of ntrat we refer to as the north leg or the last one r presented toyou but it solves the defect of the north Ieg allernative by j.ntroduLj.rq
additionar spa.ce betvreen the left hand turn movqnents. this arternative, TH 101
t"rourd come down ard connect \"ri Eh TH 5 in the same rocation as in all the otheralternatives. tlchrever, rather than turni.ng south at existing TH r01 or GeatPrains Brvd., the ltl 101 thlough movsnents wourd continue !€at on TH 5 to l,larketBrvd. and then re r.rouLd suggest ttlat TII 16r would be relocated extending southto Market Blvd., wlrich exists only to the raiLroad tracks today but is ptanned
and platted to thi.s location, continue south initially connecting up to existing
Ttl I01 but planning to the future it's suggested that IH 101 r,ould be relocated
$rest of the hornes along the lake in conjunction with TH 212 so ultimately it
r.rould cqne down ard go in this fashion but on an interim basis it tuDuld cqre
down ard link to the existing. It might irdeed c.cnre doun and go like that.
Therers lots of different detailed alternatives. The concept is r.rhat,sjmportant. I4re think that this has all the advantages of all the alternativeswith the one possible defecr that you could argue that it doesn't havecontinuity for the north,/south direction for TH 101. Grat is, now you come uphere ard you rnake a jog about 2,5AA f@t, alfiost a half mile anl then continuenorth. lhat is the one negative. I think it provides access to an area thatwill reguire access in Eerms of a.nerg ing develoEment within the city. Itcertainly addresses the issues that !,rere raj.sed by the neighborhood. It
eljminates the probtsn ard Fred irdicated, I think he used the term cautious
optimism, I thj.nk itts a fair statenent.. I'hDot in our discussions with thern,did not reject this categorically as they did the other alternative with tireshort linkage. I guess thar essentj.ally sr.t'rmar i zes where ire are Eoday. As Etedj.rdicated, we are in the process now wj.th Benshoor of testing this out in termsof the traffic capacities required at the partj.cular jntersections. For
example, qte had moved najor turning movqnents ard concentraEions of traffic fromthis location to this location. In terms of the overall- ciiy p]an, long term,
r,ve felt this was the lC0? corner arri jt couid ile that j.E,s movirg here becau-of these changes. So Jim is i.n the process of doj.nE that analysj.s. i{e thinkthat before your meeting 2 weeks frqn this evening, thaE lre would have completedthat anarysis and arso have gone back to l4oDot one more time and be abre to be alittle more definitive about the ability to liork ard a littte more definitiveabout t4nDotrs position. If that is posi ti.ve, then it's my opinj.on, based onwhat our responsibility is in terms of thi.s overarl feasibirity study that wecan catch up in terms of lost. time in terms of the Cj.ty,s responsiUility.There's still an jssue of whether the State can react Eo these charges irdmaintain their schedul-e. Again, t.rerre optjmistic and hopeful I gueis.
l4ayor Hamilton: Thank you Don. Did Mr. Benshoof lrant to present anything oryou're just in the process of working on the nunbers? Does anybody 6rse haveanl.thing that you want to present fron the feasibility side?
Don Rjngrose: hre're just repsonding to questj.ons at thjs point.
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l'rayor Hami lton: t^ihat I'd like to do is have anyone then from the public whowourd rike to make conment ard then after the pubric hearing is closed, r^e'lr
make corments ard ask questions.
e-ounci Lnan Boyt: Can I ask for a littLe chanqe possibly?
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.J City Counc j I l1ee r j ng -( r.Vusr 22.{1938
l4ayor Hamilton: h,hat would you ljke?
Counci lran Boyt: I would like to suggest Tom that j.t mj.ght help the publicreaction if they had son'e. idea of juii a quick where our parti.cular thoughtsr.Jere initialty. Ihat might give t6an
"o,n"thi ng to bounce off of.
Mayor H,arilton: I guess if you want to give then yours, you,re vrelc'ne to. IfthatJs r*rat you're saying to me- r'm inferested in ktlat they have to say and rthink they have put a rot of time ard energy into studying tiris aru I ieatizethat they've just seen a nee, concept this 6irening and perhaps it rrculd beappropriate for thsn to make conment on that. r-have irore -questions th* r nuu.just general cqrments.
councirman Boyt: r think one of the frustrations of having been in the positionthat they're in is tt,.t if they donrt know where ,ee,re ccming fron, it;s awrur:.yhard for ttrqn to react-. By th; .'me tfrey ao
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v*rere r,,e, 16 "*irrg-i."., th"public hearirg is closed.
l4ayor lhniJ,ton: Ihe process of a E:blic hearing is to gather input frcm thepublic. - rb take rhar, to m3:T9e it ana aiqesr it and iit tnut i.,io-lir. pfun=that r're're trying to acconplishi rhat's the
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v,,ay the process r"Drks r guess.
Councilman Johnson: Ton, I believe by providirg the input, by givj.ng our j.nputto the pubr ic beforehand, it-arso *uv "i."o ,p i.rne or ine conm6nts is they aretryirg to cover alr bases arxl if we've atreaay covered sorne bases, it may nctcover iE. Boy, it's getting confusing.
l4ayor rlamilton: WelL, Itm saying if you irant to rnake your conmenEs knor,rn,you're relcone to do so.
Counci knan Johnson: Okay, so in other \,rcrds, what Bill suggested here, you,rewilling to do that?
!4ayor tlamilton: That's fine. Sure, go right ahead. you,re first.
Counci Lman Johnson: Okay- Of the optj.ons, I lj.ke the, r"re got these on Eridaynight so r'e had a rittle more time t6 look at them. rrm reaning most towardsMarket Blvd-. I had discussed a simi.rar tni.ng $/i. th staff arrl irfo oeen rookirgat it-before. Itm glad to see your aligrnrenti r,ry mai.n problsns with it are inthe.affects on those ponds in th.re. w. tnna to rook at our wetlards ard ourpords very cautiousry and this particurar affeci nas a maximun affect on ourponds. ricwever, i.n this case, this i.s one of those cases where this treehuggerbelieves that it's besr for the city maybe that u,e do put it right through this
!?rd. r'm in the position of l\brket glvd. over any of the orhe; optioni at thisElme -
Counci lman Boyt: I sEartcd ouC li.king Option 2. I had two major concerns. Oneof.the major concerns is.that r,e not derly tu 5. r rrourd soy fhut,s p.obutty.yprimary concern and r think responsi.bi.l ity to ttre wrrole c-ornnuni ty uut my nextconcern is Ehat rE not put this in anybody's backyard. so looking at ti,eopti.ons' I vroutd say that on first blusn inat opti.on l whi.ch put it inio r"x"Dr jve East arxl I thjnk vrj th the big concern of lhc nei.ghborno&, ,,nulJ ue rhelast opti.on on my lisr and the firit one hDurd probably u" tn" iourtn ottion.
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City Councj.l rcecjd - Augusc zz, L)el.
Councilman Horn: I can,t nake a deci si.on until I have a lot of questionsansurered. Irm not sure i.re want tc do that at this poi.nt. To me there are too
many unknowns to make a decision. I think though, Iooking at Option 2, evenEhough Don has hi.nted that that'|s not a feasi.ble arternative, ulpears to me tobe the best solution.
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counci lman cr-'ving: r think the Mayor said it best l{hen he opened with the factthat werve got a lot of public input. we,ve had a chance to read so muchinformation on this through the g:blic hearing process and I think itrsjfiportant for us to understard Lhat when rnre review our EEcket, werre alwayslooking for other arternati.ves and that was my first and fore*nost objective. rsaid tc myself, why not force TH 10I as far to the west as r,ie can qel it. Howabout CR 117 or even TH 101 and Llman. I drove do$,n to L)rnan frql l,,lr .Klirgelhutz' property. It's exactly L/2 miLe out of the way to get to CR 17 ardanother L/2 niLe once you get on the north end back to the American Legion. Sothen I got thinkirg about the possibility of I',tarket BIvd.. This is lorg beforer even looked at any of thes3 maps and that seemed to make a lot of sense to me.I was happy tonight to see that as an alternative. l4y personal feeling is thatthis needs a lot more study. I personally need much more time. this is a kindof decision thatrs going to be with us for a long tjme. i,0e don't rework Itl 101everyday. It's been there for years and years and years and it will have agreat deal of impact upon the citizens of the City ard Irm not in favor oftrying to impact any nr.mber of citj.zens who moved into our comunity at all. Igot calls over the weekend frqr business leaders in the conmunity. They said,you're diverting traffic away from my business. I built a motel in toim and Iwant that busj.ness traffic to flow past my facility ard I agreed with him. !$e
have gas stations and we have other faciliti.es that r€nt Lhat business so rnervegot to look at it fror their aspect as we1l. We've just siEnt several milliondorlars redeveroping our doknto!',m. vie !'rant the traffic that frows our conmuni tyto al-so stog ard shop. So tve must be concerned about the entry to the
Chanhassen business district. qtr flotels, gas stations, food stores and soforth. Then the questj on came to my inj.nC, what if lre do nothing? frtrat if wedid absolutely nothing and 1et TH 5 conEj.nue and proceed al,ong? !,laybe that,snot a good idea because we'II have missed an opportunity ard the opportunity j.s
that r.re could have the State realign thi.s at a ti.me when it's beneficial to us.
So with every negative there's a possibility of an opportunity. I think I look
IErsonally di.fferentLy at this project Eoday than r did in 19gr because r washere in 1981 ard this was not a big deal,. ile knew it was going to happ3o
sometj.me in the future but the future is now because TH 5 j.s going to- happen.
[.,1e I ve $rorked on it. tlre,ve put a lot of money into i t frcrn a Chanhassenccnmunity standpoint along vrith Eden prarie, Chaska, VicEoria, aII the
conmuni ties along the route ard these people rvant to see IH 5 happen ard it'sgoing to happen. r'm not anxious at this time to start marketini'the cenEerLine on our offjcj.al transportation map just to get the project 6n theconprehensive plan- Irm not anxious to do Ehat untir we do a rot of study.Anaryzirry it ard ccrni rq up wj.th the the kirrj of arternatives thaE Don menEj.onedhopefully uErve have on sepEernber l2th. some of the other "o(*"nti-io terms orscrne of the objectives arxl that is to make sure that thi.s is not a danqeroussituation where. wer re going Eo have ki.ds crossinq hi ghways to get t; s;perettesor to get Eo schoors- I read with interest Ehe conments frorn 6rad Johnion that.ere have the same kj.nd of experj.ences on Ehe north end of town. any-oi youpeople that go to vrork in the mornjng knot, what you,re talkj rq aUout wn&r youccrne do',,rn 78th Street rnd try to geE onto TH 5. Just try to get ooto TH LOI orwhat I call l4ajn SEreeE js a chore. I puII up in front of X"nny," every mornirg
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i'tity counc j.l lEeting ( ueust 22, LssB {
and I know that I sat there for soneti mes 3 or 4 mi.nutes. That,s a long timerraiting for 15 or ,, ":I: -T
p.:" s9, r,rervg goi to do sornerh j.ng about reroutj.ngEhat traffic off our main street. ,y real 6o*"nt= are, let,s noE rush intothis whole project without.looking .t .ti tf.,"'tfd cards. t€t,s check thealternatives and bad dtard adequare j' ;ipi-i;il:' i,T.?:T;:l:r,,"iff"fil #:..:.":,ii...rT:;:nago when r started to rgaq ione of trre eranning connission notu"-lnJ iinutes, rdidn'r think rhat r€ H, do"? " tt.-rgt,-J"il"if," XinO of job that lras presenredto us tonight ard r think ire' ve cqr. a-ro.,g way in the rast ti,,o tueeks . Anotherthought, ard it's just a thought, i= tt"t--in"iili" .or*u.ri ty, for the peopre whohaven'r lived here verv Long, you,, not. tLi'tr.,"i.;=-;-i;; ;;-di;ol*".divide our. ccnmuniry. 'Eith6i it;.-" .iii.ii't.u"k or iE,s a highway. r*sTH 5 or it's rH 7. rt': ry 101, cR rz, cn-iiz'ana nr ar. Alr of rhose di.videard segment our cormunity into iittre'iocxeG ot peopre ard this earrierProPosal, the south leg proposal m"ra- u"" aon". exactly that to Brookhill, GranEstates, Hidden valr.ev. atl or tmse rittie-f,ocr"t"-"i'",ii"oil,riiI|-.r.,.. ur.new to us and had no idea,about this project 'i-y...", 3 years ago when ueproposed it, are now faced with this i" i .".i possibtity. i" iv opi.io., we,regoing to tly to do ever,thing r,re can to i*,""a tirat and eriminate that as ap:"_f,,* for you.. r tninx on6 of the t.lng"-tLt r,d like to see, at leasr r dort rn my own business, I'd like !9 *9 a# pros and cons of """iv .itllr..rr..Itrs nice to be able to present thsn here .fo f tni.,X you did u i"iy qood ;o"Don, but r would rearrv like. to =*e a cornprete ii"I-"r ffi ;;;"'uii'Ll'"on= ,o.each of your alternatives when you get aown to-tne finar si:iection ilnt "o r=can see thsn in bold print- r,el us-know what the rear negatives are and l,rherewe're conirg frcrn in terms of the positives. - rr," onry otr,"r riq quJslion i i,avei's, what are Ehe benefits to the cqrmunitv-.r inr= TH r0l? I've rive<i here 22years and lve rived with TH r01 all that'time. rt has noE ;rpu"t+: *e a sreatdeal bu! r have to be realistic ana r tnow tiiai change is raking pru... *r..:I'IIJ"
an opportunity, in my opinion, with Rossnount movi.ng to Cf,."n"riJ,*"iin .payrorr in the neighborhood of 500 Lo 7gg p""pi"..,a the traffic that rila* sgoing to bring to this area of trarket efvO., il have an opportunity to rerouEetha. if r.re can get together. with tf.," wu.a-i"riiy. I think personally tharalt'ernative nLrnber, I'rr carl it Ehe rast on", -tn" Marxet eiva- piopi=ui i= ti.,.best frcm my starxlpoint. Thank you.
lrayor tlamilton: Thi.s process, as I mentioned earlier, I began lookjng atarternatives for this in l9g0 ard it's ueen a iiustrating process for me becauserrve never seen one that r liked or fert conioit.ure with and r wrestred wiitthis darn thing ard I just couidn't, I don't knoer, there $ras just. someEhingabout it that ah,,ays boEhered me. i courdn't iina one that r liked. r saw onetonight Ehat I rike- That's nunber 4. rt =.*n. to answer the questions arri theconcerns tlat ue have and-Ir.r-r be cautiously oprimi.s.ic, u" oon !uiJ,-ii sulringthat it's an alternative I Ehink that r cou-rd ical.ry throw *y .uppoii lur.,ino.It looks Iike j.t gives the.City a Iot of ne$, opportunj tj.es rnC jt sol-ves scmeproblens that have been exj.sEjrrg....he were lust^ tatt<i.rrg before the ;;;;;.9tonight about sqne otrrer possibil i ties. r laid r don'i care v*,oc-yoJ-ioor at, rdonrt care if you have to Eear down buildings or $rhat you have to ;,or. Uut I,r.ought to.consider every possible arternati.v6 to puttin! a road in "o'r.-".nsolve this thirg ard do it_ properly. I think we,ve goi the solution. tle c:rnput in ru 5 i.f r''rnDoE wirr buy r t ano go along with ttiis and "oi[
-ri*, ,= ongettirq this done. rt's a grard oppoituniey for the ci.ty to rnake M.ir..t erua.kind of.the main thoroughfaie into-ihe a""nlo*n. rt rviri "u.au;nrv t "ip ou.irdustriar trErk. rt 'rirr be a big s"-" r.i-it*"- rE rrirr help us strrighten
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City Councii ll--et j.f - .\uqust 22, L933
out parts of TH r01 that have been a mess for years. rt seeflE to ansqrer a rotof the questi ons that r've had and it resorves a rot of the issues that rrve hadso-9e9, this is rearly positive r think. r'm really preased wj.th wlrat I,ve seenard although therers additional i.nformation that !,ie need to get, Jay mentionedthe problan with the porxl. We have had, and I don,t think that,s much of aprobJ.an, r,rrerve had a deveroprnent propcsed for that site previously ard we neededto do some things with the pond and r think we resolved thsn at that time anrl rsee no reason why we can't resorve thsn again. That's a minor i.ssue to takecare of but I look forward to r,orking with the feasibility study group. I'IIcertainly do all r can to herp and r think werve got a woikabre- sorution. Thoseare t}le cqments from the Counci Lmsnbers. Nor^, i.f there are individuals wtroqnuld like to rnake ccrments for the public record, please corne up to the
microphone, state your name and address and give us your ccrmenta please. llho|sgoirg to be first?
stephen wigg: rrm President of the ctranhassen Estates Residential Association.
hie know there's got to be chances that have to be made ard several of you
gentlqnen said r^re have to consider some of the different arternatives inci scrneof the problems pro ard con, etc.. .,.ihaE is not drawn on this last proposal
rafiich everyone seerned to be leaning toward, is that intersection of Dakota
Avenue. Irve been there for 6 years. I came in riglit at the erd of the
controversy where the Estates spent thousands of dollars fighting l4cDonalds
cqning into that corner. ldow there's a big difference bete,een fighting sqneone
coning in ard having an snpty building if that r,vould be the situatj.on from lackof traffic. For that matter, trdo enpty buj.Idings sitting at the entrance of our
neighborhood. That's the first concern. There is nothj.ng on here that shows.
i{e took in, my understardirq is, approximately 8 to I0 years ago, because of the
danger of that intersection before lhere l,rere stop l-ights there, the Association
took ard fought very strongly to get stop Iigltts at that j nEersection fcr thesafety of lrople crossing- I don't. see anythj.ng on here that says jt,s going Eo
address any kird of pedestrj.an traffic getting across. Thj.s neighborhood j.s a
2q year old nei.ghborhood. Itrs startjng to turn over again. There are a lot
more younger children that are growj.ng up in thj.s neighborhood so tnat concernis sonething that.rs got to be very much looked at. There have been thinEs
mentioned in the past about pedestrian cross over, etc. but js it feasible onceyou have these chj.ldren, all these peopLe :re just starting Eo rj.de bikes, howfar are they going to have to go to get across that highway ard what,s going to
happen to those busj nesses that are on that corner? Tttere isn,t anything thaEsholrs an islard. There's noEhing sketched j.n there.
Mayor Hamilton: r think your concern is genui ne and Ered wil-l take note of itard I think thatrs one of those issues that we,II need to respord to.
Jack Atkins: My name is Jack Atkins, I live at 220 l.Iest Tgth sEreet and r guessfirst of arl r do rike Ehe M.lrket street proposal. r live on the north sidehere on l.tresE 78th street and r do have some concerns about the norLh leg there.Mainly the railroad trJcks after Ehey cross the exj.stj.ng road there, they gobehind Jerry Schlenk,s properEy, they go below grade there maybe l0 to 12 feeEard that train, a rot of peopre say there'is onry r or 2 trai.ni but theri are alot of Erains that come through there. If you ljve near there, you t<now ttrac.so what you're essenti:rry doi.rq i.s you're going to have to tf,ke- out th3t enti resound barrier for our nei.ghborhood to put that new road in. r just rnant to rnakesure that that i.ssue is addrcssed. Thanks.
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City Councj.l ilbet j. ng \ugusE 22, Ig33({
!ii_"i:!:'"i',,Ff';,;f ,T:.:i'Lfif"; ]3lt': ""d sentr€nen, mv nane is urirhink is my .isht;; r,o,,"ii",J'li;; *:ffiJ::;ff:,:i.r::.f ,::.J:,.*::.,
that it sesned necessary. $rhen r ."""'h...-una r wunt to thank you mqnbers of theCity Council for having- laxen our .on"Jii""=!rror.f y and listened to ourconcerns. Hor^,rever, r sti.rt want to .aaiess-Io*" other poinLs because it seernsthat the prospecE or the.or iginai 'ir"i".Ii-iin,
t- rotal ry out of Ehe window.j.t";.#i: il::frfii*ea picture ii.f,-iiiiii."ar ard. cerrainry rar more
3ddrss: "d;;;-ffi ,:ii :F{iii,.il:.i,i"x.:"* *;.**.:i#,.:x,";"L":il:*il:"H'l3g5.:: :r'"-Hia'J'"'i.ri.r"]L:. . hb handed i n peri Eion
.r,iv, -*,"iil .}
fi il"j:"Fr":i:;"ilil5..Up;=irig;*F;;tii:":H":,today hhich r don,t Lno" ,t"tn.i-i.;t;=;; ,rntormed
of. you have, thar,s3l3ii"*J=ffi';:'iill .1iJ-"-5"-"'titi.oTi zs or Ehe residenrs ro L rheD;ive il;;:.. ; Jiii ffii..:";ffi.:# :?"iil:.--t5,_"- J".iis*."iii"rilrsr ar r.ake
H::*.u. r said, the proposa.r. isn,r rorallv fl:t:,. sorne. of the key poinrs
;i:::";rl,B.."ffi"pi"ur*ni.
- n.-."i. o,**.lrnil5 Iii;, j."iffii=rr;*:.S;i:
ror in s.,i...i; fiJ':: i::F:H:'Li:::#,:i,:: ffi'ffii ;ffi;;i:i,i.i.*::-Now it sesns rhar rhe :,rigin?t p-p.=ri-a"Ei, th.t p.oirlan away frorn rhe 78L.rstreet inrersection h'i rh iu iori - -il"ri"".l^ii
u*"n ,a really so*,e ir in rhesense that it's qone' In my vie$r' tr',ut pioii=n ,s just moved to the soutn srdeof Ttt 5 and the ilmou" r of d.,. pi."r*r-tr,Ii"i"'="r.r.naly ferE on rhe nortn sideof TH 5 with rhar intersection' oi;il;;."; and TH r0r r,rould be off loadeci;:::.*: fi:tT?'l"y:^::::lti'i i.,"r1m,inl and Hjdden varrey or channassen
::r=. ?f d;-;;;;, H#T-i}-. :?,"H::..1. ::,:: T":.:if:; :.-,\, ;;;;;'
need to accomoda te threug6 traffj.c u*u"".-i.uiric is rj.sing. tv: knor., En3E.tre've seen ir. However, :..r.,s ;;-;#;i;;;L. rr,s based on ass*npErons.i:,ilT: il,:';H$'::"-l$-si.n"-;;';; ;;..v much rhe way they,ve been
f3,,ti",.' 5ia-i"; d;:J: ii;flS:':H='* 33.1,"ff
;,j.ff.ffL:;ff";i*: ::.rghts, which is tikerv. r,* ,"t-*irlfail_'iii ... going to be rhe case our icrs an assunption. or Lhe orher nuna, *i,-tt lu=ia.nt. of Brookhi.Il ano HicdenVaLley, we live there novr. That,s noE .., u"I*paio.r. That,s noE a plan orProposal . rhat's real ily: -r* riu" r,..J'nli-.'no yo, i\tr. I4ayor, you macie arqnark thar you were a li.rt,e ..siai;"iy .JJ.i.o,-an".," no-. L.,., ro.aI-you u=ed,by sqne of rhe conmenrs- you got and I sincerei, rir." to apoiogile..ii-l*" or ,rycqmenEs upser you. , If.i:. "*p*..-*Vllii'iri *, "o,n "pi.=. Now you c3n
ff-'ii[.ff:'i'].0:::[:.-"n:':::.::.i:;:;*.i--.,se in mv vierv, tf,e sarety orbuildins a house *reie-ana retis-:-"-""o; ll iil:"H:T i.[.T*"i.]"'"ilin3r!"that ccrre abouE? The city made u-.or*iuo.nl'Ui'roning that area for sjnglefamiry hones. rhe Ci tv ,"a" "1".,iiC.,ia-r, Ji"i"g a p_.rmj E ro buj Id rharsingie fami Iv hqne thele ".a tn"." "i,Ji"ii"ool"3i' Then comes rhe irdividuals radmake the biggest cqmi bnen. of ar.r. t',.v-i.i.J'" mortgrge that hsts 30 yearsard they $rant to live tshere and make ;t. it.i. fro*". I don,t mean to bl&ne 'our
pranning process or what you're doi.ng rrri"i 'ao'
rror ieve that iErs justir;ea iornake this statsnent. rn a previous. in"ua you;r! dj.scussed tonight, you weretarking about a serf created situation oi i"tut-i*= ,t: this is a serf createdsiturtion of Ehe citv "d l_il ,*;."-J.i "s i.""alnainq up for our rights. Ithank you EhaE vou oo consider us- Ai;;;;"";irns are obviousry necessary rnd
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City Council rcetinc{August 22, 1983 {
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F" kl heard and very uerl so. r might just briefry address that obviousrythe option that is favored by most of you is certainl| goirg to b" tne'optioithat_is going to be favored by the nej.qhborhood that r,ri sp6akinq for. thebenefit to the city ard the residents in general is realry- tt. iriin-i==ue that rr'icurd
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exlEct you to consi.der as u're city council . It vJas pretty striki.ng in thePranning ccnmission meeting a couple of weeks ago that the only benefit thatcould really be mentioned to the original proposal eras through trafficaccqnodation. We1l, re have a head on collision here of through trafficinterest and residents interest if the original proposal r.vourd be impl anented.Obviously the original proposal. is not a sotution. To sacrifice thedesirability of a wLrole neighborhood, the safety, conpronise the safety, evensacrifice a shopping center, what jmpact does that do to the tax revenie base ofyour City? You can also look at it frcrn tlat angle. After all money has acertain weight in this world. The costs of the right--of-ways of theconstruction. tbw does that all fit together with that rH 101 is not even clear
i" tgry" of who has jurisdj.ction. l'ie're trying to build sqnething that was notfourded at t}le time the proposar ras made. rt'!s not even lEt aeciaea that rtl
101 wilr have an off ramp at tH 212 highr":ay anl r qrourd like to enclurage you tocutinue on the track to acctrnulate information and build this up step 6y stepbecause it's an important issue ard it's not going to get a sourd so:.ution 4.rushing and j unping steps before they're matu;ed and crear. r!:ank you for yourattention.
hrry qlthrie: l4y na.ne is larry Guthrie. I,m an Attorney and I represent
uni ted Mortgage corporation arxl Rottlurd Homes ard r ttave a few c-omenls. r tooaPplaud the efforts of the councir to consider arternatives and the efforts of
BRw to cqne up with arterantives ard to risten to the recomnendations that weremale by the Planning conmission ard also support the rnarket option. rrd rike tomake-a conment \,/i th respect to some of the ioncerns made by councilman Geving onthe downtown traffic and perhaps suggest to BRw that wtren -they talk to tlnDot,that th3y see whether or not a business route alternative through downtown couldbe signed
. through the old TH 101 so people hiho r,.rant to go downt5wn wt-ro might benot fami-liar with chanhassen, will kno$, that there's a business route thal theycan still hook up eri th TH r01 by going down the t'4arket Blvd. alternative. rhesecord ccnment r have is with respect to the pubJ.ic hearing ard the other i tsnsyourre going to be addressing later tonight and sorne of the concerns that r,\ereexpressed as to the timiBl of this ard whether or not the window of opportunitywirr be cl-osed. r4y ccnment is sort of two fold. !, nether or not you inteno tocrose the public hearirg after all the conments are recei.ved tonifnt ard then goon and consider the ma1l that is being proposed to go in because itnt m"y o oaynot excrude certain a.Lternatives and r guess suggest to you that because a1l tlrereconmendations aren't bei.ng made. to you tonight, tnat iL r^rourd be inappropriateto close the pubric hearirg tonight. rhe pubiic shourd have an opportunity torespord to the recomendations that are being made to the councir'.- ttrat's thefi.rst conment. Ttle secord cofiment is whethei or noE BRw can corment, whether ornot when they cone back on the 26th, whaE proposals stirr are going to be viabr-eat that point. At the prannirq comnission qe were sort of led to 6erieve thatthere u,asnrt much time in doing anytiling until perhaps 2 years frqn no$, wou.Ld beout of ttle question unLess you acted inmediately. so r think that needs to bepresented before the public heari.ng is closed aid secorrjly, or tlirdly orfourthry, hrherever I'm at, on arr the arternatives, iE seJs rike the north 1egis the same and wheEher or not scrnetJring could not be done, if there is a der.ay
:{.!hu wirdow of opportunity j.s being mj ssed because you want Eo rnake adeLiberate decision and make the righa decision and consider atl lhe
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City C-ourri I tieeting (ugust 22, 1988 (
al-ternatives, whether or.not scrne tlpe of comprornj.se as far as puttjnq jn thenorth reg, even if traffic isn't goinq to be using it-in io- ti-s"[ri' pio""=a r"qon that option- rhving the north-leg in place an6 *,"n p".r,up! tiJ !"..= ao*the road , purting in the l,rarket efvai . dan[-you.
phirip schross: r,y name-is ehirip schross and r live at 8040 Hidden circle. r4yconments basicarly, r had a rot oi thgn uut lrr. Hoisington-kiJ oi-toJi. tr,o".all as'ay by the fact that. he came in witir -dre'otrrer arternatives tonightand .m grad to see that he did- tr,ut u- yri"ir..,ni.rg conmission, even theydidn't rike the present proposar as it sLnas. r E.'i to urge you to reject anyltr 10r proposar that does go south of TH 5 betrraeen bkota and T, 101 because i.tseqns to me that rhe impact is stitl the same as the origin"i ;;6;r: r had adiscussion with nr. Evan over the phone J ic.ora irq to him, r4r. Evan is theproject rrEmager of TH 5 on F.. qa".l"g.;;Jiaing to wLrat he said, if you r.tereto separate TH 10I as a project frqn tfr 5, ti*t ltoyld n9t delay the widenirq ofTH 5 through chanhassen - rbw you -uy *na"i--#,"t is ttri.s g"i.i i;"""i *z rhecosr means rhar rhe inrersection thei r."ourd fait rotatry-;-il: ;.;"il do rhat.As I urderstand as it is now, that cost will G shared. *ck=ver, with scrne ofthe, other options, maybe that is the mosl cost-ettecu.ve to put the deci.sion offrather t'an to go ahead with this without ""vL"u:- understanding of totalr.ywhat's involved as rhis.!.: F"".u=i,"a up"n'uI. what I wanE to urge you,please don't be afraid to deray tire ,iaeni"g or rn s. as ur. conrad siid, andhe is rhe head of the prannirs @mi."i;;; i"-;ia i"t it f,'.i...iilv Ir(tranhassen I s decision, no. r'rnDot's decision to delay TH 5. Hor,{ever, if you feela decision must be made tonight, r ,.g"-y; iiat r teel that the fourtharternative, in other words,-it;s tr,"-noitr, r{ optron onry witn G.r.-t str..t,I believe that's r,rhar ,:'.: g9i.,9 to "ufilt,-i urge you to supporr thar one. rthink that conrinuitv.l ry i.or.. n""i'! i-lonci",liti.r-rH-i6i-i" iiie rinoinsa pot of gold at the erd of the rainbow. - thank you very much.
Mayor tlamilton: Are there any other ccrments? If there are no othercoments, I would suooest to the Council that the pubJ.ic hear,.ng be continueduntil such time as G"hare further inro.muti on
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ano froi rrJ-nor"rnqtoni1 1l th=e. is anybody in the publ ic ",t,o-,,.rla'"i"h ro eirher wriLe or makecoments to the City, you may do so. serd a letter to the City or co.,l.ctmysel f or other councilmanbeis, you can stiir-mare pubric cormenE. r think vEshould hold the public hearing ofun unr.J.I uit.. m" meeting of the f2thl
couhcirman Johnson: r move r^/e cont,nue the public hearing and stop receivinginput tonight I guess.
r
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l'ayor Hamirton: r don'!t think !,e need to rnove with thi.s. It wilr ranai.n openuntil after the meeting,of the l2th. people can still inpui tn..rghlh" City orthrough any of us individually. Actuarly, the four items are "ir
-i-i-J-'tog"tn".
arxl the one gentlernan comnented, he wasni t sure if ,* ,i"lor[^to'-ilr" on unyof thsn. I don't think there,s any j.ntention to make any d;isio;; on'iny ofthem tonight. They,re aII tied together ard rhey all nek 6-;-;;.ilitogether. At least for the present time.
Barbara Dacy: Except for itsn (d)...
l4ayor rhmirton: r don't think he can do that eiEher untir vre know utla EaI jgrunenE rne're goirg to have.
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Gity Councj.l lL.eU rf - Augusr 22, I98A
Counci lman Johnson: I think r.,e need to discuss jt separately Tom.
Councilrnan Ceving: You canrt do (d).
Councilman Boyt: I $rouLd move, wtten appropri.ate, that 'ne table (d) for lack ofinformation because we didn't receive the drawings. I think that,s appropriate.
Counci lman Geving: I would secord that motj.on and I thj.nk the New American
Hcmes have to realize that 'rE can't get last minute details on a very important
Subject on tle night that !€rre going to be making the decision.
l,tayor tla.'nilton: I€ have a motion ard a secord to table itern 3 (d) for lack of
information.
Mayor Harnilton: Pat, I guess I'd like to ask lpur opinion on that- We don,t
have sufficient inforrnation.
Pat Earrell: I undersEand that. Are you tabling it for a time specific?
l4ayor Ha.Tj.Iton: i.i3 tabled it on-Iy because rre have non-sufficient infoEnation so
wtpn sufficient information is available, !^,e could consider it but it should
also be tied wiEh the realigrment.
Pat Earrell: Yourre rrithin your authority to tabl-e it then.
Councilman Horn: I had a question of either Ered or Don. What provision do you
have planned to Brt along TtI 5 betrreen ltl 101 to the north ard ttarket? It
aptrEars to nE that rrhat you're doing jn that particular section of the road is
you need to create a hj.ghuay Ehat can handle both the traffic volunes of TH I0I
ard Ttl 5.
Ered llcisington: that's correct -
Counci lman Horn: So is that going Eo be 6 lane there?to have a bottleneck.
Otherwi se you're goj.ng
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Ered tlcisington: I'll ansroer that in a general sense. ,Ihe traffj.c analysiswill dsnonstrate what will be necessary there. !,b think it would involve t!"olanes in each direction ard tt"o left turn lanes so conceivably for a portj.on ofthat stretch, yes it could be 5 lanes wide.
Councj.lman Horn: othervrise it doesnrt do much goodto the vrest.
Ec have four l:nes beyonl it
Councj. Lman Johnson: Create a bottleneck righE there.
29
Counci lman Boyt moved, @unci Iman Geving secorded to table actj.on on the Site
PIan Review for a 40,066 square foot shopping center (Hidden Valley Center), tlevr
American Hcmes Corporation, for lack of information. Al,1 voted in favor and the
motion carried.
(^,City Counci 1 t4eetj.ng gust 22, 1988
That's right. The road capacity goes with ttE snaLlest
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Councilman Horn:
bottleneck.t
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Don Ringrose: Thatrs lttDot's primary concern is that !€ donrt diminish theservice level on TH 5.
@uncilman Horn: Itrat, s my primary concern.
Councilman Bolt: I rve got a couple coments. Along vrith Jay, the tr,,o of us satthrough
.
t,.e pranning ccnmission ireari.t ;;-i guess a coupre of cqments. ."leis drivins Ehroush v.v?ara.fairrv freqie;-aiv; rH r0l is alout;"-i;;i; up as ircan get $,hen it goes dom the main strLt oi'a part of wayzata so oui-existingsituation isn'r unccrrno:"!:l i::-....*i+t-;. one r thiik ,* *ni io."t"ywith. As I mentioned before, T* 5 shouldni t be delayed. lty reaction tothe Prannirq ccnmission earrier *= tt"t-i tt"rgr,t they created the impressionrhat this $,as a mere 2 vear deray for IH s. ii',* a*ia.';;; ff"ilins thatrrrcu1d derav Tu s's extension, it win not-re [uirt.--o.";t-[iJ v.Ji'lJii ao .ni"rthe state is going to ccrne back and gi". * *on"v to extend it inother couple ofmiles. They won'|t do it arrl so what-weire aJiai.r,g is do ue want it to be 4ranes out to cR 17 or don'it q,= vrant it to-u"-I-run6s out to cn-ii. - -p"isonatty,
r can telr you that the decision may be extr<neJ.y difficult before $,e,re dor*but that my vote wirr be to extend -it. Td;;';" r mentioned earrier, option 4 rthink nrakes, it certainly makes sense to ,r. irL r^rhat r,ve heard. It sourdsrike it makes sense ro a r.ot "t pu"piu uuJr-ili..,x r*,J u"tIJI-i" viiy'.u."rurto get chan Estates reactions to-this uefore r^e leap ahead. r think tirat w.Wigg made scme good poinrs,
.
u:. T",n p"i;G-;.;; ard $re probably need to hearfrcrn more peopre in thar neighborho& so i ini* werrr have the opporrunity todo that. t4y last point wouJ.d ue, r tninx-tnai trre neigrrno.i,ooo cilinq-rogerherhere, certainly you,re :or done arxi you ;;r-b" ;.;-il;-;;;J'oII o*r"ion..r.9ink it's very import3nr thar -the'neij.tin""a conrinue to rake this rolhDot. TH 5 is Soinl t? cha.rye grar.raticiffy. you need to have inprf-in ti.,.tchange process so if you r.rant- noise uarriei!, they know that. rf you have otherconcerns with how TH 5 is bui]t ard extended, ihat they,re a$rare of that sodon't.disban. simply because the City ot Orannassen makes it,s IErt of thedecision. Thatts atl I have.
councilrnan ceving: r just want to fini.sh wi th a coupre of corments andquestions to Don on no, fl=. furding for rhis prolect, ir it-r"i""i. i.L".o,r"ourd or could be arconprished- the total .""iig*n nu of TH rol to .,arket orwherever h," place. How vrould that haptrEn Don? t don,t believe there;s'anymoney for this.
Don- Ashvrorth: lrtre had approached Ehe legislature this past year. In fact, ourbilr was incruded even in the erding seision. rt lost by 2 votes on the senateside at 3:30 in the morning on the iast day i.n iession. the major stumblingblock _was contingent fron iennepin County. Sorne concerns there, sEaff isalready starting to meet-with legislativ! representa r i ves . rc;;"-;;;; that on anunber of occasions- we're meeting again wiih Ehsn thi.s w.anu.auy-io'; n=rr.that as q," approach this next legi;ra[ive session, thaE !\E wilt have !*orked outthose problqns.
councirrnan Geving: And then just one other cqment ard that has to do with thewhole issue of this real ignneit process ard wha. i*pu"t ru-n iL"" "" lr*deray, porentiar delay for TH 5. r can Eelr you tnit ,o,u. 6rxJ-rJI iears to
30
City Counci I Meetj
{- August 22, L9ga {
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get Ttl 5 upgraded and expanded to 4 ranes out to chanhassen and regardress ofwhat's going to happen with our decision on-TH r0rr r certainly v,ouldn,t rrant usderaying that project. r don'it lrant to see it farling short to rg4th streetjust because we did something here. that promoied that delay. I,rhatever it takes,rde rrant to see the comni.ttee, Hoisington and Don to proceei al0ng thoie criteriathat '"e move ahead wirh trJ 5 ard pusfr ir ahead just iike t* rr"J ir*i"a ",along- and keep us informed so thai ne're aware that if our decision is toactualry delay, 1et us know- secorx y, if there's anything that the city can doby bringing in our own architects or Lngineers or draits$pr. to uirng this upto speed, as was mentioned in scnre of the staff not." n.i. ,' tLa;.-" -Si.ut
possibirity- t€trs proceed in that vein because ue canrt let rH 5 deiay intothe 1992-93 scenario- That's the direct r'd rike to =" tir" -"i"rt gJl-
counci lman Johnson: rrd also rike staff, r see Barbrs not here right now but Jo1* p..9FUtV kno$s it just as uell, tell us what the next steps ar6- There,s afeasibility study yet to be done ard things Iike this. ffrr.l"V ."i" steps aone have goirg here?
l,layor tbmi I ton : Fred , IErhaps you could .
Fred Hoisington: I think that Barbara laid that out in her meno Jay.
Counci lman Johnson: WelI , they didn't read Barb's msno.
Fred Hoisington: There wil-I be a feasibility study. It ,^'uld have to becqnpleted ard arr the answers providing for irs to proceed. rf there is analternative that we can settre on, thei rne can des-ign...ard part oi-tn.t "tro.tto--. then it $riu be constructed so thatrs wtrat rde expect the process to be.
Counci lman Johnson: Okay, i\rarket Blvd. opti.on has quite a bit of streetsinvolved. Orite a bit oi roads involved. fhere's a- mileage limit in ourenvirnomentar assessrent state raus ard envirorrnentar guarity law, r ber-ieveit's called. r think we need to take a look aL that rear. soon and see if anEnvirofinentar Assessnent worksheet will have to be done so vie can gei that goingtoo so !"e. don|t cqne up at the rast minute on oh my goodness, r^re.r6ea an EAw forrunning these rlpe things. rhis feasibirity stuay- ii going to a..iJ" a rot orthe questions that have been asked- pedesriian ciossiig ii one that rdefinirely want to see in thar feasibiriry sruJy uecaud th"a i";-;r;brsn thar.this Ciry has righr now and if we can tie rhar in here. ;;;"-;.; .rh;;-
arrdressed. as early as possible. - This is a good ri.me, ; g;;-;;;;IJ-u,.o,that. on the agenda. r think i.trs arready ii ttrere but r want to make sure itrsin there. whether the feasibility of whit tr,u "ft*t trris wiri-irav"-oi' tnbusinesses in that intersecti.on, ihe sincrair stati.on and l,,tac.nJ-ooni" tt...,rrm not r00? sure h'hether that belongs in there or vrhether thaE is a freeenterprise's responsibirity to do thaE but if that is e"onorni""riy ""n-i" .oa.ato it, that vourd be nice to have there too. r do not berieve inlt-tiii= ,*ura,with movqnent of Rosemount in and a fer.r other "h..rg", gojng in town, I dontEthink this wilr have a marked effect on those busines=6=. 'r un:.rr["u" -r", ."growing,- theyr re not goi.ng to see any decrease io business to our road.Especiarry. when you throw io 5ao Lo 700 new unployees jusE down the road fromthem- 'Iheir runch time is going to be even busier. oi course, the feasibiriEystudy wilr rook at the noise arso that people have talked about. r i"airy enioylistening to Uli. I,ve listened to hi.m thiee ti."= nor. At the planningcomnission ard earlier, r wi.sh r courd speak ai eroguentr.y .= n" ao".l-"r oo
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31
. City Council I'reeting {rnu=. 22, tsgs
PT'BLIC HEARING:
wEsr 781tl STREET DETACHMENT EEAsrBILrry sruDyi suppLEI,rEl.lrAL REpoRT !,p. r
RlbLic Present:
Nane Address
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berieve tiere is a benefit to this because rrre have a rear probran. Thi.s is noEjust to connect IH 101 north to south. we've got a rear problan. Ttt r0l- as itgoes through the north side here, goes through a residenti.al neighborhood. Itgoes past a grade schoor. . rt goes IEst a couple churches. tt rrlns past Kenny'swhich is where aII of our kids go to hang out jrst Iike kids o., yo.rr'siAe qo tosuperetLe- .Inle have a present ard real dinger going on right now'wi th TH rot onthe north side and we have to, do scrnethi ng
- on fhat -but to create u l.out*n onthe south side by doiDg scmething to sorv6 a probrsn on the north side doesn,tmake any sense either. ltrat r s v*ry r favor ttri one r'm favoring no$r. r thinkthe. business signage can be hardled very easily as far as *yi.,g e,infru"".nbusinesses, trke a right no$, and you c.i go to downtown Ut furai,s p."ttystandard stuff. r just wanted to cover scnre of the pubr.ic cofirnent ir,.i ,as *aoethere. that's al1 Irve got to say at this time.
l'rayor rhmilton: r think 1ourve received a few more questions Eted frqn trrepubl ic and frfir the council.. Especialry Dakota Avenule. Hcw is that g;ing to beimpacted ard scrne of the others -." ir y6" courd gather the information on thatand bring it back to us, rrd appreciat6 it. Anyoodv "r." r,u"" -.ny -&n
nt=z
councilman Horn: Just a response to Jay. when rne first started rookirg at theTll 10r alternatives, lrE Lerentt moving the property to the souah u*."". tir.south.wasn't built up like it is. As a matler- of iact, ,rt.n tr,ut-J.""ropn.na$,ent in, roe discussed this. rt u,as discussed with the church v*ren it went inard roerve alwalE tarked y.rllt anybody who's deveroped i" ."y ..".-anvrr,.i. inthis area
_
about the possibir.itrof iealigning ttt 1gl ana *frat tr,e po"=inr"impacts might be. The church people hav6 be6n debating for some tlrne wiretnerthey want to continue with their project untir qre resoive this. rt's not amatter of pranning- rtrs a.matter of gettirrg the pubtic sector transloilationissue. resorved in conjunction with the privite deveroFrent. rve don,i controrpri.vate develognent. That happens. th! onry option we have when . iuu.r.oo=.comes in is r,,," can say, we1l, r^,e mi.ght be devetoping *r"." =o,nJ.y.
-c"-Uy"ifr.t
property. Thatrs the only option qle have rrhen thaE planning comei in otherl.riseT !-": to let thern go through with their process. !^te can tell lhern thaE youmight be impacted at sq.'* point but rn ...,l t stop thsn. Thatrs the type ofprocess to go tirough. rt.might rook rike bad planning but itrs tne ieatity otthe fight between the pubric arxl private sector-. r^Jhen this lrhole thing started,the situation lras much different. rn fact, many of the options that did rookattfactive at one point don't look that way ur,1ilor".
l,rayor Hamilton: I would like to just thank everl,body for your input. Itts beenvaruable !9 us ard r.E appreciate your ccrning to ine plannj.-ng conmission anj tothe council meeting to show your support for what,s being d6ne in the city.Thank you.
r
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B.C. "Jim,, Burdi ckBrian H. Burdick
Jan Coey
425 fake Street, Excelsior
5205 creenh,ood Circle
Taco Shop
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32
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
.'-t:r 1,, CtiY 'rd trl$tahY
/a:);'''rn'-€ " " '
MEMORANDUM
TO3 Don Ashworth, City Manager
FROM: Barbara Dacy, City Planner
DATE: September 8, 1988
SUBJ: TH 101 Realignment, Update
BACKGROUND
Attached is a set of criteria used
ating the proposed alternatives for
The consultants would like feedback
impressions regarding the criteria.
rl
The City Council tabled action at the August 22, 1988, meeting on
this item so that the consultants could prepare additional infor-
mation reqarding the additional alternatives presented at that
meeting. The purpose of this ite$ on tonightr s agenda is merely
to update the Council as to the progress of the addltional study
tshat is being conducted by the consultants.
ANALYS I S
l .r-hii S. .
by the consultants in evalu-
the realignment of TH 101.
from the Council as to their
Also attached. are graphics depicting additionaL variations to
some of the alternatives created by staff and consultants.
Fred Hoisingtoo and Howartl Preston, BRW, will be present aE
Mondayrs meeting to revier* the crit,eria and update the Council on
the additional information.
It is recommended that t.he Council take no action on this item
and merely provide input to the consultants on the information
presented.
ATTACHMENTS
Evaluatsion criteria.Letter from Joan Summerfield dated September 8, 1988.
Letter from lim Erhart dated August I8, 1988.
Letster from Blue Circle Association dated September 2r 1988.
Graphics of proposed alternatives.
1
2
3
4
5
i't,i-:.i------.,,---,rr:.'---9-:.kkd --
-fu!2.9q...
-
RECOMIIIE NDAT ION
l1s. Joan Summerf ield
Bl40 Hidden Court
Chanhassen, t1n. 553i7
Chanhassen City Council
Chanhassen Municipal Bldg
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen,lln 553.17
Dear Councilmen,
I was pleased to attend the council meeting onB/22/gg and hear
alternatives for T.H. l0l.
I am one of many persons in the Brookhill addition who oppose the
alignrnent 0n t0 Lake Drive East. The prefened alternative is alignment
'4.....0n to l'lanket Blvd.
A. lesser concern of mine is the plan for gakota Avenue/Hwy. 5
intersection should alignment ,4 be approved. tf it is intended the Dakota
AvenueiHwy.S lignts be removed and right in/out only, then llcDonald
custorners and Data Serve employees might increase Lake D.ive East usage
because of limitations to westbound exit
I urqe you to further analize the potential non-residential treffic on
Lake Drive Ea:t that rniqht re:ult.
Sincerel
O A-t--;:LI
S EP _j l9B8
CII Y OF CIjANIiASSiJJ
.-,d-
S
Tim A. Erhart
775 liest 96th Street
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
(612) 474-llr6
August 18, 1988
Hs. Barbara Dacy
City of Chanhassen
690 Coul ter Dri ve
Chanhassen, li'lN 55317
SUBJECT: HIGHWAY & REALIGNHENT
Dear Barb:
Tim
cc: Ladd Conrad
t-
lfi^AIE
No matter where the exact routing of Highway l0l through Chanhassen ends up, it
is essential that the new intersection include a street connection to Lake Drive
East. This connection is required to make the areas now zoned commercial south
of TH #5 viable.
I want to make c'lear that in favoring the north route for a rerouted #101 thatI was assuming that the connection between Lake Drive East and the new
intersection would be created. As I stated during the planning commission
meeting the north option to me represents a number of potential routes including,
but not limited to the TH #5 route. l,le should be looking at use of l,lest 79th
among other potenti ai routes.
Reg ards
TAE:j
rhart
=
Uith this letter I would like to clanify my position regarding the realignment
of Hjghway #101. First, I bel ieve it is absoluteiy essential that the current
route along t,l. 78th Street through downtown be el iminated. Second, a new
intersection to the west of the current Dakota Avenue/IH #5 intersection
represents an improved method for routing traffic between within the commercial
areas of Chanhassen. Moreover, that this new intersection can aid in solving
the #t0l routing problem. I want to emphasize, howeVer, that I see the primary
reason for moving the intersection is to enhance Iocal traffic flow within
Chanhassen's commercial. area particularly those areas south of TH #5.'The movewill also improve access to and from commercial areas north and south of TH #5.
MAUN, GREEN, Haves, Stt'totr, JoHANNEsoN axo BneHt
ATToRN EYs AT LAw
SAINT PAUL O FFI CE
JOSEPH A.
'.iAUNXERLYN C. GREEN
LAWFIENCE J- HAYES
JEROME B. SI MON
JOHN C. JOHANIIESON
JAMES W- BRE}'IL
BFUCE G. OOLAUG
ALAEFI A WOOOWAFO
RTcHARO O. OONOHOO
6AREIETI E. MUIROONEY
WILLIAM J. HASS'I{G
M. l.ICHAEI. MO'{AHAN
JAMES A. GALLAGHER
SARRY A. GEFSICX
6EOFFRE' P. J RPE
RICHArlO M. 6A LSW'X
LARRY B. GUTHRIE
ROLF €. GILBEEITSON
SEIH M. COLTOn|
NANCY BUEIXE HUPP
JAMES G. WEIN' EYER
PHILIP I COLTON
LONNY D, fHOB^S
GOROON J. APPLE
RUTH SILSETH MARCOIT
PATR'CIA A. COI'EFOFD
SUSAN SOEIRELL XELLY
33? H^iitl. BurLorNG
406 ST. PEIEF SIFIEEI
SAINT PAUL, t'II{NESOTA 55IO2
TELEPHONE, AC - Cit2.224-73C)0
TELECOPTER: er2 -29A -O9r5
M IN N EAPOLIS OFFTCE
August 30, l9 88
surTE 520
35OO WEST 6OTH STFIEET
MTNNEAPOLTS, ra r r{ r{ € SOTA 5543r
TELEPHONE: AC. €r2,s35 - 95sO
TELECOPT€R, 612-s3S-3463
City of Chanhassen
Chanhassen Munici,pal Building
590 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, ltinnesota 55317
€€ f^,.|t - -9{* t<,.11
Re: Proposed Realignment of Highway 101
through Chanhassen
Dear Mayor Hamj-1ton and Council Members:
Irm writing this letter to emphasize the coNoitment nyclient and other third parties associated with Hidden val1ey have
in opposition to what I will call the "Lake Drive Option" (i.e.,
diverting 101 traffic onto Lake Drive).
unlted l,lortgage and others associated with it in Hidden
Valley are prepared to contest any decision favoring the Lake
Drive Option, administratively and, if necessary, in the Courts,
to prevent implementation of the Lake Drive Option.
I hope your Honor and the Council Members do not take these
statements as threats because they are noti they are merely
expressions of commitment. The Cityrs consultants are currently
going through feasibility studies and it is merely my client's
i.lr'
AllG 3 i 19BB
UllY 0r CHANI.,ASS!ii
Minneapol i s
As you may know f rom my previous appearance bef ore you and : ---- - - -. , - -the planiing c6mmission r rtry f -irm repres-"-rrt" u.rit"a laortgige -224- 'i-Q/ /J/
Corporation in connection with the above-referenced matter and
United Mortgagers development of Hidden Va1ley. United MortgageCorporation, like many of the residents of Hidden Valley, werequite pleased to see serious consideration given to altexnativesto the originally recornmended proposal .
MluH. GneeH, Hlves, Srr.roN. JoxalNesoru ero Bnexu
intent to make sure that itrs and othersr cornmitment of
opposition against the Lake Drive Option should be legitimately
considered as a factor, both from the standpoint of costs anddelays, in the deliberations over whether any of the other
alternatives are not more feasible than the Lake Drive Option.
incerel
Lar Guthri e
LBG:p1
cc : B-onald C. Ilelmer , Vice Presi
United Mortgage Corporation
Bud J. Rotter, Vice President
Rottlund Homes
Blue Circle lnvestment Compony
6'125 Blue Ckcl€ Drh/e. Minnetonko, Minnesoto 5534{} 612193}0409
CERIIFIEIFRECEIPT REQUESTED
September 2, 1988
Ms. Barbara Dacy
City Planner
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Drive
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Mn 55 31?
Under the'rNorth Leg Optiontr101 would intersect with S at the same proposed
Iocation as shown on the original proposal, however, its westerly route would merge
with Highway 5 rather than Lake Drive East to the present l0l/5 intersection. Ai
that point 101 would turn and travel south a-long its current route.
At the Planning Commission the City's consultant presented the original proposal
and the'rNorth Leg Option" stating that after researching numerous options the trvo
proposals were the only viable options. Ttre Plannirg Commission recommended that
the Council adopt the nNorth Leg Optionn with the further recommendations that ifit was not possible to implement tie rNorth Leg Options thet the original proposal
be implemented.
Re: Ilighway l0l Renlignment
Dear Ms. Dacy:
I recently attended an informal informational meeting and a formal planning
Commission Public Hearing regarding the above captioned iubject.
At the informational meeting the city's consultant presented a plan which showeda.new Highway 101 and 5 intersection which was to be located at the Redi-Mix plant
site on_Highway 5. Highway 101 was then going to continue south to the existing LakeDrive East, then move westerly along Lake Drive East to the intersection of exiiting
101, then turn south along the existing route of 101.
some of the residents south of Highway s objected to this proposal stating thatthey had just made major investments in new homes and that thCy flared theirlnvestmentwould be seriously jeopardized by this proposal. These residents indicated that they
had not taken the time to investigate the cityts future road plans and they also feliit was the city's responsibility to inform potential home buylrs of plannet actionswhich might affect the value of their investment.
As a result of the concerns expressed by these homowners the City's consultant
was directed to study and present to the Planning Commission a fiNorth Leg Option.rr
S EP iI 19EB
crrY oF CHANhTN
Ms. Barbara Dacy
September 2, 1988
Page 2
We are totally aghast to learn that the City Council is now giving serious consideration
to new and different plans which completely ignore all past planning by the City Staff,
Minn DOT, the Cityts consultants, and the investment which we made in the City of
Chanhassen which was based on reliance upon that planning and the recommendations
and representations made by the City Staff and Minn DOT. I would like to emphasize
that a great amount of planning had taken place prior to our involvement, that we
were required to abide by that past planning, and that we had to make specific changes
to our original plans in order to comply with that past planning as that past pl&nning
was going to be complied with in the future.
Like the previously mentioned homeourners we, also, have made a substantial
and recent investment in the City of Chanhassen. Unlike those homeowners we went
to great lengths to explore present and planned traffic and road patterns' present and
planned road access, and residential development plans prior to making our investment.
During that investigation we received certain assurances from the City Staff
regarding future road patterns and access.
The City Engineer, Mr. I\{onk, gave us detailed information regarding Lake Drive
East and even drew us a map of its route. Labeling it as Exhibit A I have enclosed
a copy of that map for your review.
Lake Drive East was to be, and in fact was' completed from Dakota Avenue
to Highway 101 in 1986.
At some future time Lake Drive East was to extend easterly from the point that
it now ends to the Chanhassen/Eden Prairie border where it was to connect with Highway
5 at a major, signalized, all movement intersection. We now understand that this is
going to be done in conjunction with the upgrading of Highway 5.
Lake Drive East was also to be extended westerly from the present l0l to County
Road 1?. This was to be done at some future time, and take a route generally in accordance
with Mr. Monkts sketch (Exhibit A). While the timing and final route were uncertain
the connection point at the present 101 was without question going to be located at
the same point on 101 that Lake Drive East presently connects to l0l. All of the new
plans now being considered by the Council do not show this to be the case.
The present location of the intersection of Highways 5 and 101 was to remain.
It was, for certain, going to be upgraded in some manner in order to accommodate
the projected increase in traffic but it would remain a major, four-way, all movement'
intersection with Highway 101 in its present loc&tion and providing vehicular access
to our property from Highway 5, downtown Chanhassen, the population base north
of Highway 5, and the existing and planned population base south of Highway 5.
We spent many hours working with the City staff and Minn DOT to plan our development
and &ccess to it in accordance with the aforedescribed criteria and in such a manner
that it would be workable not only at the present time but at the future point in time
that these improvements took place.
I have enclosed the minutes from the Planning Commission and City Council
meetings, Exhibits B and C, which dealt with our development. For your convenience
I have highlighted and underscored what we feel are key excerpts from those minutes.
These excerpts, we feel, leave no doubt that the City Council, City Staff, and
Planning Commission knew we were making a major investment in an important intersection
in the city of chanhassen, that at some point in the future thet intersection was going
to become an even more important intersection, and that we, in conjunction with the
City Staff and Minn DOT, had gone to gre&t length to plan our development so thatit had the access which allows optimum and at the same time safe vehicular access
from both the present and future road systems.
Ms. Barbara Dacy
September 2, 1988
Page 3
PBH/dmm/48
Encl.
Acting in reliance upon the assurances, representations, and recommendations
given to us we entered into a lease agreement with en anchor tenant whose presence
is essential to the viability of our development. That lease allows that tena;t to terminateits lease upon-'rthe closing, substantial and permanent relocation or rerouting of vehiculartraffic away from any street or highway adjoining the premises.'r Some of tf,e newplans the Council is now considering due not only completely ignore all of the past
planning upon which we relied they qlss create an environment under which thl tenant
which is absolutely critical to the ongoing viabiLity of our development wiu, without
doubt, vacate.
We are certain that you are aware that if the City Council chooses a courseof action which is contrary to the planning, representations, an recommendation uponwhich we based our investment decision we will be faced with economic disaster and
be left with the unpleasent arternative of engaging legal counsel with specific expertise
in the area of condemnation in order to protect our eConomic interests.-
- .In recognition of the importance of this matter we are requesting that you immediately
distribute copies of this letter and its exhibits to the Mayor andeach member of thecity-council as well as any others that may play a role in the decision making process
in this matter.
Sincerel V,
Patrick B.
Partner
allisey
E
€Ftirtotv d
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HENNErlNI CoUNTI
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L986Thirty one
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Ir t i?
Public Present
Jim and Sue tavrrence 68 4I Penamint Lane
Thompson: This is the first issue, correct?
Dacy: If you don,t tnind I can cover all three issues at once. Thesite is south of the Ame-rican f,egion pilp..ty, north of the ner.e LakeDrive East coming from H$ry I0I oier iito Chanhassen Estates. ft waszoned as part of the Hidden.val-r-ey puD iast summer to c-2.-- The platrequest is basicallv to.split tne-prolerty so that the second buildingthat you see on youi site plan can be'conveyed in separate ownership.As far as setbacks are concerned, the c-2.district J1.;= b;ildingsand p-arkins to come up right to ite iot rine ii-tr,e;;;;;";; Lot iszoned C-2, so rhere should be no problems rrom-rtr;;;;i;;;';'"int ofview. However, we are requiring tnaJiot 2 shourd share the access asproposed on the Lake Drive East:
Dacy: That is correct. The second issue is the conditional usepermit for gasorine sa1es. This is the proposed site plan that shourdbe in your packet. The -gas pornp" ur" iocated in the southvrest cornerof the property proposed- in conlu"ciion witrr a e convenient store onthe r',estern end of the proposali rhe si n prun -..u i "r
"i.-qu"= t is justfor the commerciar uses- irierf. rhis co'naiiionai;";-;";;ir is for thegasoline sal.es. We had our public safety director ,.ii., this siteplan and he advised us that ifr. upp.opii.t-p"i*it" t"""'tl'uuobtained by the state.for the undergrouna instai:.ation &-gu" tanks.Arso, proposed in conjunction withinis are 17 foot ro incri 9as pumpcanopy. There is si_gnage proposed on the canopy. past history in theCity of Chanhassen f6r iignage on g-ui.llrnp ".nopys are for example,the.Horiday station was not grantei silnage on the canopy. The ordermembers r.rilr recall .that tha site plan was approved on 169 for LincolnPropeEties to redo the Mobile station site. -6ne or it. .onaitions ofapproval there was that there. be no -gas ca-nopy signage. oefending ont', h-at the.city feels as to continue tliat poriiv o.io1.r.*-itutporicy, in this case staff is recommenaing ttrit .t- r.""i"ilnage terestricted from the south and east sides b'""ur". tt.i-iu.."= tn"neighborhood area to the south. As far as the conditionar use permitis concerned for gasoline sares, ere are rec.ommending approvar subjectto the storage tanks being in compriance wirh tt" "iiili*-i1... coa"and requiring permits obtained and then that signag. ""n-o"iy Locatedalong the north and $rest facia of bhe canopy th6n ipprovai or the siteplan request.
third request, the site plan review request is for a
.foo_t-.shopping center on Lot I and 4,066 square footbuilding on Lot 2. The proposea puriinq rdguirements thata ratio of one space for 2oo squire te6t oi retail stoie-
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Planning Commission MinutesMay 14, 1986
Page Thirty Trro
Honk: As Barbara has n-oted, the sanitary sewer and vrater natters vrereissued or were resolved ""-;r;;#t;:, Hidden varley proposat.subsequent runofr wirr run i;;;;;.';;r.e to servi..'.ir ihree utilitvitems and if Ehere are qu.estior,"lUoJi_no: :xpctly ttri" i" being doner can anse/er those_q,r."iion"-i;lj;;;"""ron r-akes prace. one of thelssues with this si.te was it"-i..iiil il ,la our and access. severalof the things that have G;;.;T;l; rhe readins entrance and exitrnto the site has been IinJ.J'r-i it .1i....."
n Drive, the access intoHidden valrev wilr tr.erp ;i t;*'.;.''Jl"'t"ti.." associared with of fsetaccess and so on. ,r.! y...r".y i*-po-ii.n. ao "t"ri_ttui Jnrl.oriiaingproposed on this site basicariv ,I"-irr"t access and dever6per has beeni!^ftil!il:.:l'liuix?.'::j.:;,:,xil'.;i.:"""". Because or iire shortne;;properry, we have recommended ir,".-.r,...3;i:::":: ::I:niln.:: .n.basically a doubte e*it ,norJ,ieii-."'ti"a right hand turns can beallo$red while people_wanEing t" g"i#;ight or turn left can beaccomodated in a ieparate m6tion-una-i- think that is very importantagain' r am recomm+ldiis tr,"i-i'ni"'"i='rand be exrended ti tne nortrrslishrty just ro.l1g: ro. " iil-i1.;;; more satin on the exit modeand to restrict the entranc" ,n"-"Li.-n a" irom cutting the corner andcausins porenriar .",I1::::-;ii'h;:';;r: rryins ro set our.:ffi f ff ffi :f{i:,!!='*ffiq.."".r"ti,""".,,":1.,::f ::.ffi ;o$
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trrini-aia"J.;;;;; bo overtune the rioht i", iis;i ou.-iiopo".r and J
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n . ". i i i g" il : f ; "";.';ii*. _: I ; : ; .' l:;r.J." i : g ill: i;ff U iH it "51"ff :".t,::.'u"nili"" -' ::l I i :r' - ;;;; i".1,..u -.o r."r . i -ti, ii i n rerm sttreir-exiJiG";5j.=.t w-rth Ehe Leqion site.. -rhere I"., q;""tion rhaEuntir such tirie as ais
rn this location w.ourd have ii i" Tr-.=ii.r a. i ""a!h"y ,r;;i; iil; ;; 'nev develoPed, but wtrat unoof illIi'Jii'back ro isproperry tine al Hr"'"-" a consolidated a c-3_e3 s ei ttrer-aesilniing tt i"a"';i;;il.;;'-i"'ini:' -'-^1"1 !h" l"sion deverops,"a liii,iJiJ'
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.ig -tn.-Jii.-tere_addressed durinq the?::nI:lun"':tri.t""'"T" .ror ttidden v;ii.;: rhe nexr i"s,"-ii rrarriccteveloper on Mondav:l:-{::t ltP.o.tt, uloot lyas to meet with the
1.t," 91'"-""!"ooI'oTiotornrng of this vreek_r.eg_arding rt"-"".',""v'in.nathe city iis;;.'";;';"*il"'"'l;"r::...,..;X..n'nt i w_o.utt ii-k.-';" i,,it.n-!o
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Planning Commissin M I nutes
May 14, 1986
Page Thirty Three
Thompson: Bill, did you talk to theacceptable so lut i on?
applicant about that? Is that an
Monk: yes, they agreed tha-t although my- w_ording may not be perfect onthe condition, r have stated on the -"ondition g"-n"iii -.o*ro.nt"
otI'{nDot and if we can rrork out the details of thlt access in ttre future,that. lr-ould be agreed. They lrould have to change ttre site pianslightly to accomodate that access Uut it can be done.
Thompson: This all happened in the past couple of days?
D3cy: Just a couple more thoughts. Just after what BilI has gonethrough on the aicess on the pioposed connection possiury in tt.future to the Legion property, one of our conditions on thelandscaping plan was to .r,:ing tanascaping around to the edge of thebuirdinq so that it wourd ha-ve a pr;;i;; area to contain parking on_this corner. r-.g-uess -at this poi-nt itr.i r don't know ii ihe conaitionneeds to be modified,-b\t our intent wourd be, "u"i.."rv i'e*oon,t want
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. now because now vre are closer to the existi ng Legion entrance.Instead ere came up wi th a proposal conditio n No. 12 $rhich staffrecommends that the acces s into this site be allowed as an interimuse. We donrt like to use the work tempora ry or interim, but it beallowed as a interilu use.At such time a s the Le gion site isdeveloped, there is no question in m y mind that,not only willthe Legion want to mai ntain some a ccess on the o ne Iane, you willremember they were platted a separ ate right of way on the very easternedge of the parcel you are looki ng right no vr.The ful1 development oftheLegion's pr operty,right o f way as
we did require the develthe ma or entrance into this
oper in Hidden
Leg ion
Val leyPlota 6g foo t j
Pr ope rty uIti na te 1y.
L L I ome
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Based on that
be tr t in or r ght ou E,
we put a condition 9ein
t. a
the cond i t
fter the i
i.on no. 12
r plat is appr oved.basicall vstates that as the Legion site would be devel oped, we are ant ic i patingthat tbis is the perferred L ocation for the right in, ri gh t out. Theywill be cons tructi ng that as a part of this site. If tha t occurs weare basical ly sayi ng that the e ntrance we provided for it now would beinterim and city would have the right to c lose that entr ance andrequire ac cess into this right ias the city is successful
n and ri gh
in t out lrould be constructgatinq the ri ght for thathere, as I ong ed
access, which I think $re can condition dev elop of the Legion property,we can i ncl ude that as a condition of their approva l.Just because ofthe timing di.f f iculty involved when on e parcel wants devel opment andother does no t.I would recommend tha t in addition to th e cond i t ionsthat the Commiss ion looks at tonight,that they also cons ider someform of cond i tio n number, I think it i s number 12, conce rning thisaccess location.Again, ver y briefl y as I explained, as theCommission enters into di sc uss 10n.
",
to plant any trees, e!9.-.in the way of possible connections so we arejust lookins for a modification to brin! tanascapin!-;;;;;; a rittrebit to dress up the. rear of the Uuif-inq. Very minor correction.signage, what is being proposed is t prion sign in the northwesrerncorner of the site and Iong Lake Driv-J east. The sign along LakeDrive East, re would encouiage that the appticant i;;t"Ii-;'groundprofile.sign insread of a.pyion sign to ada'in, ;i"i;i;;-iriact asainstthe residentiar area to the south. As you recarr from the HiddenYull.y plat directly across the street ?rorn r,aie p.1"" i"It, i", rbelieve a G to I f oot berm along the entire r"n jttr oi iale--drive sastso that wir.1 screen out a10t of-the activity o"i"ii"ll.-tt.commercial area here, however, as fai i. flgnt from the sign, etc. rewould recommend that a ground profile sign iourd ue uest-iri'tnatlocation. Trash encrosures and roor top structures are to be screenedas- depicted in your sight pran materiaL!. The fire marshall has alsoasked that an additional hydrant be located at the entrance to thesite on Lake Drive East to ensure vrater supply capacity. Also, atthe time of buirding permit appricarion thai-oie oi trr.'l.rr.ing spacesmay have to be eliminated for pr_oper fire lane access td tue uirirai.nq.This loss of-the parking space wi.il not affect ability to provideadequate. parking on site. vte are recommending "pproril oi ltre siteplan_review request subject to the tweLve "onaitions contained in thestaff lepor t.
Bob Froemm.ing, Developer: We have gone through and read her comments
i.o you tonight and we are in agreement to ao jtt those things thatthey are recommend ing.
Conrad3 Any other conments.
Thompson moved to close public hearingl Emming seconded.
AII voted in favor.
Erhart: What is ooing to happen to the Legion site? Itrs for saleisn't it?
I
Dacy:
Erhar
$ras n'our C
and H
It is zoned C-2
t: The Legion si
commercial.
for sale,
for
te i s I just wanted to make sure It saying somethi ng that wasnrt t rue.Tha trs a beautiful site inity of Chanhasse n, that r,rhole area i n bet ween Lake Drive Eas twy 5 and H!,ry l0I in there and I re rJiae--!.Ires.:yoq-Elu vs.JIaJe_e.in this t hiJ.rg and wanE to proceed with something and1oweodo that. I guess overall from a planningstandpoint I uould like t o see how, to see if there is a nyway to sitback and Look at this thi n9 as a whole si te and make su re that we doas many things as we can today to make it better for all of us downthe road. If you are thi nking t.hat someday you might put a road
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Planning Commissin Minutesuay 14, 1986
Page Thirty Four
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Planning Commission Mi nutes
May 14, 1986
Page Thirty Ei ve
across the north the back of the building ever being proposed.
Dacy: The north lot line is the rear of the shopping center.
Thompson: Haybe they donrt understand why that Lake Drive is.proposed, I don't know if they understand that "on..p[.
- - itr.".gentlemen down at the end.
llglk: The devel0pment plan shows existing chanhassen Estates arr inthis area and Hidden,val|ey prot and the fegion p.op..ty.-- -.
i ght nowthe councir wirr be looking lt prans and specs for construction ofthis entire point road to cope wittrin the next 45 days, so that isr'rha.t we articipate at this point. The first t"ii oi'Hii = levelopmentis.basicarry in progress right now and is anticipated to be-tinisrreawrtn year hrrth the second half startino later this year or next year.In rooking at rhe Leg i on sire we did d; qui te a bi t'oi "oix
'i
nproviding for this access at this rocation between these tr,ro sites inHidden varley. Getting that 60 foot righted rray so tirat uiiimatedeveropment of the Legion courd eventu-urry t.r-. ptace wrriie ttrebuilding was orientatea in this direction,' with it "-p.iili"g .naaccess, directed down to Lake Drive. There is anoiher r6ason forthe burm and the large Iand on these lots r.ras to separate thesepotential uses. cond-ition number 12, you know we iren,i-tiyi"g toover burden this development with conditions, but that is baing put inthere because we are concerned about the number of access pointsbetereen Lake Drive East and TH 5. As TH 5 gets widen to f-our lanes,chances are that there wirr be median strip going trom r,axe Drive EastuP to TH 5 so the through movements would not t" iltowed andconsolidation of these access points at that point would be verydesirable. As far as the access into the siti goes, on" oi the thingsthat we did look at, and we will look at the Mn6ot a.u*ing-. One ofthe things we did looked at as this rane comes in, chances- are thiswilt stay- This is the probrem, it $rourd stay in at this rocation butas so.on as you got there you vrould probably end up at the r,egion site-Ieaving an area here where the bac k- of thi j bui Iding "orfJL"buffered. This is not proposed to be a street arr t-he way through
!9.". Anything can happen. There is a 10 foot separatiori now withthe potential for nore, but again r think it is gota that the chancethat the 1i ne would bend in and the reason f or tliis cond i tion is j ustto try and provide for the best ptanning possibte as far as accessgoes here. It will have a definite effect on these people but thereasons being put on there is that ere are trying to iool at theoverall picture.
P.tf"ta: You are proposing that Ehe driveway into the entrance fromthis plan up north.
I:ilt. -lv-elEuallyr y€sr on the plan as it is sho$rn r.re are recommendingEnaE rt be praced as shown and in the future that the access as it is-
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'ePlanning Commission MinutesMay 14, 1986
Page Thirty Six
planned could be closed and that condi tion would be viabl e. Theaccess at this Point $roul d come i n off of TH l0I in her e. In thefuture sre reco minend i ng a gatn as the Legion post devel ops as weantlcrpate, they put an access down here but the n this site wouldaccess to tha t. We r.rou d make that a condition of the Le gion si te.If that occurs this one would be closed. So a gain, i nter rm andtemporary access is not recommended b Y any stretch of the ima ginationbut because of timin 9 problems, somet rmes you do get into them. But
I
these devel
rmDort
o ers are a t lea st rovlp ss
on that. lt slemsthat faci I i ty.
Emm i ogs:
redundant
1S
Seigel: Just one question to caccess coming from the south onarea?
Iarify that access to TH IgI. fs thatIy on rH Ior inro trre sffiiEe =*i;;'
Monk: It r{ould be r.ighr -1ll..iglt out so you woutd be able ro get into
i.1"" :::ff.rtsion coming northborid on ri 1sr and ser back on going f rom
Seigel: But you canrt turn from the north.
Monk: you have to use Lake Drive East.
Monk: Again, I think Ehern EeEms of what Ehey are
question might be better withexpecting Ehe flow of traffic the developerto come i nto.
a 1i ttleHave you done any studiesto have thaE entrance into
Seigel: I erould iust question why anybody coming heading north $rould Inot take Lake Drive EaJt inro tr,"'"".l-ini.;-";;,";;;:-.., .,'
Monk: you courd probabry- take a rook at crosing off the right in and -''lyou know the proposat couta "u."ir"-rilfr the right out. I iuess the?;::.il: Ii::: ";:".from a eooa J.,"iop-".:-.rh#-;;,-r-J.rik^"'t,o ways _l;:#i:r*s3 iffi. lyou witr il-;;"i"s;ourh of Lak" i;"";lnd so on. sions that _l
Seigel: I guess ^y pb-int is if you are going to eventually move thatnorth ro rhe share of 2_way enriy wiitr ir," r,-.,gi"";;;;"-.#,an.n iawould become more likely ti.rut-"n!,Uoai"tiuo,.ng north srould use LakeDrive East entrance int6 the ru"iriti."-
t
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Eroemming: As r understand the proposal once the access moves Eo thenorth, it will nor be a tr^ro $ray;"";;;:-.there- w-ili-.-i;t:"" right inright out access so it wourd u6 tne sime.type of access onry rocatedto rhe norrh. r would expect tt ui ttl'iigi,.r in-ri-oi;;;;,.;..y
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extensively with our major tenant on it. They know peoples habitscoming in and out of their stores and stations. Their major concernis that people coming from the south, by the time they usually see andreact to Lake Drive East to make the right turn to go in there, thenif you pass it, once you see it, you are there, you can still get in.If you miss that second chance at coming in, then they are gone andyou have lost them.
SeigeI: Do you plan not to have a trro r.ray entrance into the pEopeEtyat the Legion HalI?
Monk: The TH Lql-acc€jirlbetrreen Lake Drive East and TH 5, no mattererhere it is or what side, erould be right in right out only. There isno eray that another four coEner intersection could ever be designed.The distances are just too short so even if it is moved up to ttieLegion property, in the future it rrill just be r-ight in right outonly.
Seigel: You say that the road into the Legion property is not goingto connect with Lake Drive East straight across, i,t is going to goinside that property?
Monk: .B-?Sic.al].v what vou haye bapof Hwy 101- would be a priTEEe accFs
ParKlng Iot or whatever. Not neces
I
$re are thinking the Legion might develop into one large use. Fullaccess for the Legion would be provided by Lake Drive East on theother corner. This would only be a back door along THsure that the Legion is going to request that.
en].n 15 a rl ht in ri ht out of fs and I t r{ou access nto asarily into a frontage road because
Well I understood that would dead end but as a separate
10I but we are
Conrad: Okay, then there is a connection between Lake Drive East onthe olher side of the Legion.
Monk: Yes there is. -
Conrad:
entrance.
Monk: It is a separate entrance.exhibit. I should have for that.Again, I didn't do a separate
Conrad: Do we have any indication of what else would be involved orlrouLd be included in the shopping mall. What kind of stores, tenants?
Bob Froemming: Different types of things. Gas and goods, restaurant,take out restaurant. such as pizza, dentist, dry cleaning, typicalservice type of center. Those type of stores. Typical service kindof tenants from surveying a neighborhood district. These stores, withthe exception of the gas and goods, wilt be from about 1,000 square
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 14, 1985
Page Thirty Seven
,J
Minutes a,
a heav i 1 traveled area with a Iot of shoEt
out ey are no t go ng to be spending hours
.P Iann i ng Commissin
.May 14, 1986
Page Thirty Ei ght
foot to 2,g1g squate foot. They are quite small.
conrad : J,t-rroq,,Ld.Jce-q.grl.term people going in and
at this mal1.
Bob Froemming: No it is not that Iarge that they would spend hours at
there. It is maybe a gas and goods, if you stoP and buy gas you also
pick up some food or something, like a modern Kenneyrs.
Thonpson Boved to close Public hearing, Emmings seconded it.
AII voted in favor and the Botion carried.
Thompson moved to recommend approval of Subdivision Request 86-8 as
depicted on the plat stamped "Received April 24, 1986" and subject to
an access easement across Lot I being recorded in conjunction !tith
filing the plat to insure Permanent access for Lot 2.
Emmings seconded. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
Seigel made a Motion' ThomPson seconded, to recommend approval. of the
conaitional Use Permit Request *86-2 for installation of gasoline
pumps as depicted on the site Ptan stamped 'rReceived APril 24, 1986"
subject to the following conditions:
1. Gasoline tank storage shall be in compliance with the
Uniform Fire Code and a permit must be obtained from the
State Fire MarshalI.
2. Gas pump canoPy signage shall only be Located along the
north and west facis of the canoPY.
3. Approval of Site PIan Requests 186-1.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Thompson made a motion, Emmings seconded, to recommend approval of
Site Plan Review Request *86-1 as depicted on the site plan stamped
"Received ApriI 24, 1986" and subject to the following conditions:
1. The free-standing sign along Lake Drive East shall be aground profile sign.
2. Additional landscaping shall be installed in the
noithwest corner of the site. A landscaping Plan shall
be submitted in conjunction with the building permit
application for Lot 2 which $rould include instaLlation
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Minutes ,lanning Commissinltay I{, 1986
Pa \re Thirty Nine
4.
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6.
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11.
'7
8
3.
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of a 2 foot berm along.Lake-Drive East and installation
i5.niir.t"ns consistenr wirh tto". ti"i'are depicred for
A11 site drainaqe be directed to on_site catch basinsand not to Lake Drive East.
The access island on Lake Drive East be lengthened l0feet to the oorth to assist *iitr-t..tiic channelization.
The exit lines to Lake Drive East be clearly signed and:::ig"d.to designate proper turning and directionalmovements. A detaited plan be iru,iiiila $rith thebuildine permit aenotini-sie;;s;-;;;':I.ipus. of theaccess area.
Il:-9:""19per. acquire a_ permir from unDot for the TH to1access and adhere ro al_1 condition= oi'-""ia permitincluding nraintainins ait"r,-ai.ji;;.:''
All bituminous areas shall be Iined with concrete curb,includins the isrands ;I-;.t; ;;;=";;..".
Roof-top equipment and trash enclosures shalI be
;;:"iB;:,,:" depicted on the pr;;-;t;;;:d ,,Received Aprir
Installation of Iandscaping as depicted on the planstanped "ApriI 24, 1gg5,t.
An additional fire hydrant will be located on Lake DriveEast. This will insavairabirity ro. ri.l=:n:'r:t::.'"ter supplv and
Fire rane access wil-1. be-provided in the front of thebui td inq. rhe sDecif i" l;;;ii;iJ't."a'..u..ined af terfinal building pians are submitted-
o
12. TE JHJo,f _gg.."JS is approved as an interimentrance/exit w-i in ctosure reguired ,pon l.t.consrruction-of an access, "r";; t;; "Iiin-pi"p.rty rineat a future date. Such closure shalI Ue rituireO onfyupon the regal right of Lot 1, Hidden varlev 2ndAddition to use siid "cces=. er".,-Iit;-;i:i revisionsro attoe, for rhis access "r,lrI"i,.rr iE ipi,J"r"a by theCity to insure proper vehicular .orr"*.nt=I---
ill.::t:o in favor :.I::pr Erhart_who opposed. Erhart stated rhar a;; ; ;SI "i:il " n?t nXt'.'rXt=l'"" "ou ia..uJ "-ri i "r"a i n ..i. t ion -io
2|)a)
lretained by whomever's p,r_gperty thg.y happen to be on, but we don,t see hoe,the city can place that i.nto a ;ond ilio; i;*-.- r .* recommerxr i ng that 5 bemade concerning the requirement rti lrr-'*"!.it for driveway purposesacross [,ot 4 be executed ard granted to ll.. "
Hugt o.
Councilwoman watson: Ei..g-: are only six lots. f don,t see anyreason why we tnve to see just ttre averall roi "rru ard median rot size. rthink toe could have gotten tle ri* ioi-"ir""]- '
Dacy: The lot sizes are the plat too.
l4ayor lramirton: Have any troubre with tiat condition 5 Tom?
ltom KlingelhuEz: Nc, no problem at all. I think it would be foolish tonuke him move his driveway t tren the i"t- i" ".'i..ge anlhow.
Dave Hughes: I live on the east side of the property line ard Iacknowledge the Council is.not setting- I"SJ .piip".ty fin"". I amap5rreciative Mr. Monkrs wiJ,Iingness t6 en[er ihat e.s"m"nt ard Mr.Klingerhutz's wirlingness to 96 arong wittrlt ]ir my drivewav arrl r paidspeciar nore to his comment !-har he -"orlan'tiiira.iJ-ti,JJ't;e'"G;
to finJing just hhose trees they are.
City Council l4eeting - June 2, 19g6
i.:L;rlfrt7 {.
Councilwoman Swenson moved, Councilwoman Watson seconded to atrprove theFinal PIan &nendrnent Request #83-l for pfutting six singte family lots inoutlot D as presented on tire -pf a"s "-t .6;-;ived April 24r 19g6,, anlsubject to the follo$ring conditions:
1' ffi:tilLtf":alo root landscaped strip arons the two rors aburtins
2. Shorten the cul_de_sac ten feet.
3. Alt construction meet urban design staniards for utilities.
4- site grading be required to route runoff away from the alreadydevelo[:ed protrErty to the east.
5. An easement be granted across tot 4 for driveway p.rrposes for theadjoining pro[Erty.
All voted in favor ard motion carried.
*Elgs
Cir.le Associaton, Northeast corner of Highway
l=
IOi and rake Drive
F
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a.ffi ,"*r#*-ElE*"rEC*-'*inro,r{o
ffi.ffi.*ffi: Requesr for casoline sares on Etroperty
b.
ll
City Counci I t4eeting - June 2, 19g6
Site Plan
zoned-G7
Review for Commercial Uses on 1.35 Acres of, Ccnrnercial -
_Lr
T.yl I. will guickly run through this request. Ihe plat request is todivide the parcel into tr'ro rots so tlre free starding buird ori G ;;J;."portion of the lot can be rrnveyed to separate ownership. Condition ofplat approval that the two rots fire u"r6"r "u*."nt access agreementbetween the two lots so that those fots ca" -oJy
be used u" piopo"J fro.rike orive Eu:!. Ar you recall, the lot ,* pfJtt"a i" .onion.iion-riii,,the Hidden Valley Estates plan and you wili r"ecall that lake Lucy is goingto connecE eventually down to mkoG. It was a cordition of approval alongthe south side of take Drive East that t}re;"; a 6-8 foot berm aronq tiisar€. This ortlot ard the outlor to the east;-*;;;i;';;i#, "ProtErty r''as zoned to c-2 at t'e time of the iidden vurr.v piJlrppiorur.so the alplicant's site plan
-requires two appiovaf s by citiZ coo;.-il-. -.;=
is a @nditionar use permit for the sale oi su"orin".' *;'r" ttI'"iteianreview for tlp commerciar use itserf. Et"ii' ,*" are perm itted uses inthe C-2 district so the conditional use oniy p..tui"" to the sale ofgasoline. rtre iite plan for. determining G io""tion "t tf* pr.pu-io."meet the setback requirements for the c-_z aislilcu of ";;";'il""f"*.gas_pump signage that is proposed. r think *o"l ot you witi ;;;ii th"iearlier request or ure Hotialy station
"rrd ;t th. r,i'ncorn-ero[r#=;;prohibited any t),IE of gas p,mp canrt be signaged. ltowever, if it isconsidered by Council as recommended ttut ti. -"ignug. o"fy L-io"utJ *the norti ard west side ard not the "o.rtn uJ.."t to only promote theability to -see the signs from tirat airection aii not from the neiqhborhood.As far as trre pmps are concerned, tne Fire llu."'t.i-iw.a"-.to.n;ii?r'#'Lis recommend ing conditions of approval. ; ;;;-r" the site plan isconcerned, we have noted 12 corditions that !.rould be maae ; p.;I ;;approvar. what r would rike to do is briefly go through tiroie .o we rno,trhat Staff is reconmerd ing.
1. As,f:r a_s signage is concerned, there wilL be one pyLon sign on thewest side of Ehe site. It is.also bei.rg rec-omm"naea tli:it "f"*i t}. *i*,side, alons with a basis of signage i" ;J;;;; the profite sign rarherthan a Fylon sign to give it a- di?ferent .t "-.*t"..
c.
2. .ddi tional landscaping in the northwest corner of the site. fbweverratthis tim e Sta ff wants to r.rithdraw that conlition because of tlle ssue thatis raised wit h Lhe access fr om IH I0 I.. What is be lng Propo s a one-$rayIn or one-way ouE trom TH Ig rnto the site. MnDo t has come back ard saidIthat in the future when the Ameri can Iegion property develops to the north,that this access wilL be closed anl a !E!, access be built along the northIot line and that the traffic desi gn of this site be reoriented to thenorth to access inEo the drivewa Thus is cordition 12 that the CityErgineer added at the time of p lanni ng Conmiss ion approval .
3. Is to direct on-site catch basins arrl not to take Drive East.
4' that the access isrand on take Drive East be rengthened 10 feet to thenorth to assist with traffic cnannerizalion. - ttri" *i[ ar ter t]," turningmovements of cars entering the site ani arso coming out "t ti," =it..- wL
9J
2fig
Property
t
6-,--,Y{)
City Council t4eeting - June 2, 19g6
propose tr.ro ranes as you exit the site for a right hand turn arrl left harrttum.
5. requi res that lanes in here be clearly striped.
6. That the developer acquire tlE MnDot permit ard comply with all of itscorrlitions.
7. the standard cordition requiring all bituminous areas shall be linedwith concrete ard curbs.
8. .lhat the root-top equipment be screened as shown on the plan datedApril 24, 1986.
9. Installation of larrlscaping.
Lg. Eefers to an installation of a fire hydrant along f.ake Drive East.This is to insure protrEr water suply for fire protection services.
11. Gte of t}le parking spaces along the front of the shopping center be atIeast located to provide for fire lare. Fire lare access ard theelimination of one parking space will not affect parking requirarents.
Pat Hallasee: I ue that
f-,in.-develop 1anI
w 1se ard tent
reconmendat lons.
. Mayor Hamilton: We would just have so many problems, werve had problems
with other facilities in the City ard I i^rork continually with ttre Carver
County police de[Ertment ard that seems to be a major source of minors
Srrrchasing alcoholic beverages is buying through a e-Su[Erette or that t]ltr)e
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The Planning Commission recamnended approval on the plat, corditional
use permit ard the site plan approval with the 12 conditions as presented.
have
we those
Mayor Hamilton: I think I sa\^, that you are planning on putting in a
Q-Superette in there.
Pat Hallasee: That is correct.
Mayor fhrnilton: Don,t they generally sell 3.2 beer.
Pat Hallasee: 3.2 beer, yes.
Mayor Hamilton: Itsrsonally I have a problem with that. I would make thata cordition that a 3.2 beer license not be allowed at the e-Superette.
Pat tlallasee: I think that would be a substantial problem.
Councilwcrnan watson: Why.
c-\ f"f 1
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City Council lfeeting - June 2, 1986
of establishment, whether it is a ?om fhumb or whatever tlpes seU it.That is a ma jor .problem. l.leV.e tra! ti,o=u lioUi.*" in tt i".Ior*r-n1tv -'
tI:.: and i t is an important problem thjr w;
-';ve
a hard time deal inqwith because you can't have someone sitting down there ;i;ili*".'t;,often times have 16 year olds worring in -6*"'irn"
of facirity and theyare sellinq to other 16 year o1ds. eofi"" alpu.tments terd not Eo patrol
H"::r:r* of facititiei "i.pry-L;;;-i."i51'rz ard you can,r ser drunk
P.y, the only clmment I was asking for clarification was, is that theliquor license is not a zoning issuJ p.;t t.i; to this application.
l,ayor namilton: r bro.ght it up because r want the applicant to know thatis an issue.
A discussion followed on what other facilities such as Hol iday, SuperAmerican and Kenny's sord 3.2 beer. ri ,."-u"luurisnea tuJtupel-'iier i".ard Kenny's did. lbliday does.not, t vi.g g;-d-ecia. ir. p.*.ilit rrl"been established with respest to issuifo 5t f i.qro. f ic.n"e!-to-tt.;:F"of facilities, a gas staEion facility *uitt -.-=ior" attacrment.
Don Ashworth: council has great discretion in terms of riquor ricenses.You have issued a license to SA and have not issued one, ;;;;;-d;;"appl ied for one, to Holiday.
Pat Hallasee: I think it is an issue thatrs of some fairly majorimportance though. I,m not going to *t it i-s-a. re.al major factor in e,sbusiness, r know it is an. imlport-ant pail o1 ti,.1. buslness and .ve neverrearry specifically guestion& *r" g.-ntt"*.n uaout wnetner he would gofor$rard on this site or noL withoui it, lui i a-o r"o, they are incomlEtition. not only with Holiday but witi X.n"V," market'also ir*: tf*Vwourd certainry be ar a comperit-ive aisua".niilE if they ,"i. nof.rio*"ato cqntrEte on the same basis as Kennyrs.
C.ouncilman C€ving moved, Councilwoman Watson seconded approval ofSubdivis-ion Fguest 86-12 as depicted on ti," pf"t stamFd ,,Received April24, .1986". and subject to an easement across tpt I being recorded inconjunction wit, filing the plat to insure Gii.,un.nt u..."" for Lot 2. AIIvoted in favor and motion carried
Mayo-r Hamirton moved, counci lwoman watson secorded approval of corxritionar.Use Pernit Request #86-2 for installation of gasofirp -pumpu * a"pi"tJ- ontr._fl!" Plan sramrEd "Received Ap;ii-r;; i-SaZ;-roui"ct ro rhe folrowinscorditions:
t. Gasol ine tank storage shall be in compliance with the Uniform FireCode ard a permit must be obtained fr&n tne State Fire Uarstrat.
2. O".ry.n. canopy signage shall only be located along the north andwest facia of the canopy.
3. AS4rroval of site plan Request #86_I.
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City Council },feeting - June 2, 19g6
councilwoman svrenson: rs.it anticipa.ted that there w r be any automobilerepair or maintenance on this site?
it is strictly gas sales, self service gasoline andPat Hallasee: Ib,
convenience food.
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Dacy: Ihe canoEl signage vrould be part of this request.
Councilwoman Sr,renson: I loo-ked diligently through here I tlnught ard Icould find no. c'opy of what they want-ed to- prt oi this sign. rs-ttrere a
-copy
of $rhat ttre signage on tle canopy was going to look like. I know we werevery specific with lbliday that ttrey couidn't put anything on tfris sign...The signage wourd have to be restricled to tt. nane of tte- station. -
ryyt ftte nine foot square sign, that is the e sign, the other one listsprrces.
courcilwoman svrenson: oh no. you can'!t have it up there because if youbave it up there. you can put the name of the esGUt ishment but m ti" g."prices. Ide vrent thro,gh this with Hol iday. rtrat is a main corner theie.TheY want rotatirg pylons.
-
Oucyi l.lo, they urderstand that it is not to be rotating. Ihat isprohibited by ordinance.
Councilman Horn: What is the difference if the prices is on the canoSlg oron another sign.
counci l woman swenson: r_ think it can be pretty ',icky* looking especiarryas you are entering the City.. If our whole poii.y ii going t6 cGnge thanr think we should establ ish it before .uu.yo-n" er-se is-goiig to be ianiinqsigns alr.over the marquees. Do r understard that ttre -ard th.t- i" g.i^ito be facing TH 5, the north lot line is the rear of tlre shopping .enf.. o.are vre talking about something else.
hcy: Yes, the north side is the rear.
councirwcrnan swenson: The pmps are going to be facing take Drive East?
hcy: Yes, at the corner of take Drive East and Tll I01.
councirwoman swenson: what provisions are being made for the architecturarappearance on the rrcrth side of the building.
Pat Hallasee: It is all brick. The building will be brick all foursides .
Courci lr.rqnan Sqrenson: t*rere do you intend to have trash containers?
Pat Hallasee: We have inlicatsl two positions on the Site plan. Weurrlerstard the trash containers wilr be screened. we wourd want to do thatanl4.,ay.
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Counci l woman Sr'renson: [,lcw 9re are having two signs. We're having a pylonon the northeast side ard another one on- f,ake ori*re sast. - y;;h" ;i;ordinance provides that you_ can -have one "ign io. every street frontage soas a corner lot they are allowed two signs.
City Counci 1 t4eeting - June 2, 1986
Counci lwoman Watson:
says?
What does the pylon say as opposed to what the canoSlg
Dacy: the detail on wt|at != "ign say w.rsi not suhnitted. Ttrey will applyfor a sign IErm it ard they have io .dt tlre- iocation ard the sizeygeu-iremepts as stipulated by the sign o;iin;;;.. we require them to showthe location on the site.plan so the C."."li- G aware that there is goingto be a sign on the particular site.
Councilwoman Ssrenson: lG aFprove tle signs then. Counci I approves thesigns?
Dacy: I\b, it is processed adm inistrati vely. Ihe gas pump canoEf signageis included in the corrl i tio_nal usage p".*-i1-uppi*al hovrever, the freestarding. pyron signs are a&ninistr-atively .pp'ior"o because that is what thesign ordinance provides. rf they .."t t6"t[unaards of th" "ig;-;;i;."on the free stardinq signs, ttrey file an application
"rrd SLii,;;;;the peEmit.
&unci Iwoman Swenson: I noticed in the planning Commission Minutes,accord ing to you, one of the corditions for appiovat was that there was tobe no gas canopy signag".. g pag" mrlrty one'oi.May 14, r.eee lrinutes.-oxaythe one on take Drive East is going to t" ri,. "Ligh'b.ihl"d- ivn ,
"iri-or.r.r:
profile and rhe one on .rH s is-eisht feer talr. i b"iiJ; u{f i"'inIi',read.
I)acy: 0t TH 5. Nb.
C.ounci lman @ving: you are dov,rn to nr-rrber 9.
Councilwornan Swenson: On tlre back here it says rotating it says it isgoing to 6 feet side anl 8 feet nigh on "-rz-ilt po=t. lihich is the samesize as McDonalds.
Dacy: 2A fee' is the maximum. Ihe planning Commission did approve ttrecorditionar use perm it as presented in ttre itatf Report. aa "qoui"-f""t.T?," maximum for a commercial sigrn is eo squiie ieei "o trr"y ... =r"a**.tr,
that requirement.
A1I yoled in favor except @uncilwoman Swenson who op6:osed. Motioncarried.
}.:fi{:l HoIn..I9uF, @urrcilm-an Geving seconded apgrroval of Sire planxevrew Request #8G-I as depicted- on. the site plan sGmped ,,Received April24, L986" and subject to the following conaitio;s:
1. Tbe free-starriing sign along take Drive East shall be a grourdprofile sign.
47
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City Council l,teeting - June 2, 19g6
2 AII site drainage be directed to on-site catch basins arld not totake Drive East.
the access islard on take Drive EasE be lengthened 10 feet to thenorth to assist with traffic channelizaEion]
lhe exit lines to take Drive East be clearly signed ard strilEd todesignate prolEr turning ard directional mo:vements. A detailedplan be subnitted with the bui ldi.ng permit denoting signage arrlstritEge of the access areas.
the developer acquire a permit from ltnDot for the 1tt IOI ac.c€ssard adhere to all corditions of said perm it including maintainingditch drainage.
AI1 bituminous areas shall be tined with concrete curb, inclr:dingthe islards at both ac,,,cess points.
Roof-top equipment and trash enclosures shall be screened asdepicted on tdl plan stamped rrReceived April 24, 19g6r'.
Installation of lardscaping as depicted on the plan stampd
"Received April 24, 1986".
An additional fire hydrant will be located on take Drive East.this wiLl insure proper water supply arrl avaj.Iability for fire
aparatus .
Fire lane access will be provided in the front of tl1e building.
The speci fic location to be determ j.ned after final building plansare suhnitted.
3
5
6.
7
I
Lg.
11. I"he IH I a
C
no
AII voted in favor ard motion carried.
is approved as an interim entrance/exit withosures require upon the constructi.on of an access along tterth property line at a future date. Such closure shati berequired only upon ttre lega1 right of Lot I, Hidden VaIIey 2rdMdition to use said access. AIso, site plan revisions t6 allowfor this access shift shaU be approved by the City to insureprolErty vetricular movsnents.
Dacy: r'tr. Mayor r just noticed that on the plat request, the agenia shourd
[vg read preliminary ard final plat. they have suhn itted both: As u .utt",of fact, the plat in your packet is a final plat. For the record could
You entertain a motion.
Mayor rbmilton amended his moEion and counci lman @ving seconded to amendthe Preliminary prat Request to subdivide 1.93 Acres inlo two commerciart ts of 1.35 Acres ard .58 Acres to include preliminary and Final plat
approval .t
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CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 9s7-1900
-{-./"J. t,. //ta
f..- 1/tr | 2g
azH
MEMCRANDUM
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ :
RECOMMENDATION
The Planning
Attachment +2
Planning Commi s s ion
Planning Sta
September 16, 1988
Review Land SaLe Agreement
Attached is the analysis from the IIRATs 1egal counsel regardingthe above referenced iten. The primary purpose of this actj,on isto determine consistency between the proposal and the land useplan. The proposed uses are consistent r,vith the city's land useplan and zoning ordinance.
1nCommission approves Resolution #S8-A as presented
ATTACHMENTS
Memo from John Deaa dated
Proposed resolution.September 16, 1988.1
llEx)NATDIJI,T
TO:
FROM:
DATE !
RE:
Chanhassen Plannlng Commisston
JOhn B. Dean, HRA CounBel
September 16, 19BB
Rosemount Inc. Development - Conformlty wlthComprehenelve PIan
0n your agenda for Septeilbet ZL, is an itern involving the
pfoposed Rosenount deveropment in chanhaseen. As you may kno$r,
the chanhaeEen HRia is considering the red,evelopment o! a 54-acre
trast, q1 land whr-ch generally lies Eouth of Hrghway 5 and north
of Lake su6an. The exact rocation of the site will be shown on
maps which will be furnished at your meetlng.
Rosemount will be bullding on the site aD approxleately
330r000 Equare foot building which will house certain manufactur_
ing, warehouee and offlce actlvltles of that corporation.
Ihe site is presently owned by Alecor ,foint Venture No. 2.
The contemprated development would requrre that the HRA acqurre
the slte together wJ-th approxinately four addrtlonal areas of
Iand from the owner and then convey the slte gnd the four
additional acres to Rosemount. Ro.emount wourd then convey the
four addltional acres to the City for park purpoeee. Roaemount
needs to have tltle to the eite by early November so that lt can
cot[mence ConetrUetlon by mld-November.
As you might expect. before a development of this ssope caD
happen maDy thlnge mugt takE placa _ including a ho8t of
governmental actlona and approvals- one of the required actronS
lnvolves the ltem presently before you.
ffi
Chanhaseen Planning Conrnrisgion
Septenber 16, 1988
Page 2
MinneEota Statueo, 5462.358, Subdlvlalon 2, plovldes that
the HRA rray neither acquire nor dlspose of an interegt ln real
property untll the plannlng cor@iesion hae revlewed the proposed
acqulsitlon or dllsposal and hag rendered rte flndllngs eoncernLng
whether or not the acguisition or dispoaar ls in cornpliance with
Chanhaeaenre Courprehensive plan. Those flndlngs muEt be ln
wrlting and muat be transmltted to the HRA.
Pred ltoisington will be present at the meeting to present
lnformation concernlng the propoeed developnent and hle analysls
of its compliance with the comprehensive plan.
for your convenlence, f have ilrafted a proposed reEolution
for your consideration, The regolution can be used if the
plannlng comrnission finds conpliance with the comprehenslve plan.
In the event that the plannlng conulsslon finds noncompllance,
the word nnot" can be lngerted after the wotd "isn in the eecond
Llne of the paragraph nurnbered n1.,, near the bottom of the
Resolutlon.
0511ME02.814
PLANNTNG Co},MTSSIoN RESoLUTIoN N0. _
RESOLUTION REGR.ADING COMPLIANCE
OF PROPOSED ACQUISI?ION AND DISPOSAT
OF LAND WITts CO}IPREEENSIVE PLAN
(RosEtoUNr sIrE)
WHEREAS, the l{ouelng and RedevclopE.ltt Althorlty Ia and for thc Ctty of
chanhaaaen (HM) le conreoplsthg th6 scqulElrtou and aubacqueat dlsposlrlon
co Roseuount rnc. of a rracr of land lylng wlthln thc clty of chanhassso all
of whlch arc ehown strd located on the proding prelltftary plat of chrnhr.acu
Lekes Busloess ?6tk S€coDd Addttton aa Lot I. Elock I ald 0utlota A rad B
(8tt!) i rtrd
I{HEREAS, pureuanr ro @!g Elglgggg, S.crtoa 462,356, Subdlvteloo Z,
thc HRA hae requcstcd that th. Plarmlng CoulrrLoa rcvLcr the propoacd
ecqulsltlon aod dl8po8ltloo ald randcr lts fltrdlnts aa !o ehether the propoaed
acqulettl.on and dlspoaltlon er6 ln coEplleoce wlth the CouprehcuaLve plan of
thc Clty of Chauharaen; aad
I{tsEREAS, the Plaunlng Coroiealon hae conEldered the taforaatloa suppllrd
lo lC conccfnlag ch3 uaea and actlvlBtas to whlch would occur oa thc 81tc
should thc cort.ophtrd acqulaltLon aud dlepoaltloD tEk. pltcc; end
ItrEREAS, the Plennlag Comlsal-on hca coopercd such u3.s afid acBlvltles
rlth ths provlslonE of the Cooprahsnslvc PIeu eppllcablc to thc Sl!a.
N0lJr TIIEREFOR.E, BE IT RESOLVED, by tha PlaroLug Cml.erloa of thc Clty of
Chaaharren aa followr:
1. Thc Plannlng ConolEalon fluds thef Chc propoecd acqu181t1on end dlapoal-tlon of th€ Slte la Ltr coaplianee wlth thc provleloue of Gha
Couprchaualvc Plan of thc City of Chaahaeacn.
2. Tbc rccordLng Bccrrtary LE dlrcc!.d to proDprly dcliviE 8n e:(ecuted copyof thr.s Rceolutlon to the Exccutlvc Dlrcceor of the URA.
D8G.d:
-,
1988.
ATTEST I
Rrcordlng SecrcEery
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CITY OF
EHINHISSEI[
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
UEUORANDU!{
TO: Planning Commission
FROM: Jo Ann Olsen, Asst. City planner
DATE: September 15, 1988
SUBJ: SuperAmeric a ttwy. ?/4L
c. Provide a ne!, ground low profilecity requirements
d. Provide proper channelization andright hand turning movement into
E.L1
Daie l: - -.: l.- "-'_
,.,"-Sr-an?--
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?12, /ftr-,-
DlteJ... '::- .-l
On August 3, 1988, the Planning Commission tabled action on t,hesite plan review and conditional use permit for the SupelAmericaconvenience store with gas pumps until the following issues couldbe resolved ( Attachment *l)!
1. Access from Hwy. 7. Whether MnDOT would permit the siteaccess from Hwy. 7.
2. Amend the site plan as follows:
a. Provi,fe a 15' side yard setback from south lot line
b. Revised landscape plan providing additional berming and
s creen ing
sign design which meets
signage to preventthe Hwy. 7 entrance
3. Provide information on emergency plans if gasoline spi11soccur.
4. Provide a traffic study to determine if the site and accesswill accommodate the proposed use.
The applicant has provided an amended site plan (dated August 15,1988) which address *2a, b and d. The side yard setback has beenprovided, the landscaping now meeCs city requirements and thesite has been designed t'o restrict traffic from entering the Hwy.7 entrance.
The applicant has proposed a variance to the sign ordinance forthe ground 1ow prof iJ.e sign which is addressed in a separatereport. Any wa1l signs will have to meet city requirements.
Planning Commi ss ion
September 15, 1988
Page 2
MnDOT has stated that the entrance from Hwy. 7 would be permitted
upon removing the right to the service entrance from Hwy. 41 just
south of Hwy. 7 (see Engineering memo). The applicant has pro-
vided a Eraffic study (Attachment #6). Attachment *2 is a memo
from the Assistant City Engineer which reviews the traffic study,
access issue and gasoline spills.
The applicant has also provided a lighting plan which shows the
extent of light seen off site (Attachment ll3). The lightingbarely extends beyond the site and should not impact the neigh-borhood. Staff is sti1l recommending that the canopy lights be
recessed.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
The applicant has provided documentation which states how a gaso-
line spill will be handleil, that the site and access can accom-
modate traffic Aenerated from the proposed use and that lighting
should not impact neighboring uses. The applicant still wishes
to have the site open 24 hours for business and security reasons.
The applicant is willing to limit tanker deliveries to an 8 hourshift whenever the city prefers and will not have outside storageor sa1es.
Staff feels that the applicant has addressed several of the con-
cerns of the public and Planning Commission and feels that theproposal is meeting the conditions for a conditional use permit.
Recommendat i on
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval ofPermit #88-10 as shown on the site plan stamped
1988" with the following conditions:
Conditional Use
"Received July I1,
1. No unlicensed or inoperable vehicles shall be stored on premi-
ses.
3 No public address system shall be audible from any residentialparcel .
4.Gas pump s tacking
sha.i.I not intrude area
i nto
deemed to be appropriate by the city
any required setback area.
5. No sales, storage or display of used automobiles or othervehicles such as motorcycles, snowmobiles or all-terrainvehicles is permi tted.
2. No repair, assembly or disassembly of vehicles is permitted onpremises.
5
Planning Commi ssion
September 15, 1988
Page 3
The lights on the gas canogy shall be receded into rhecanopy.
There sha11 be no outside storage or sales.
8 hour shift and onTank deliveries will be limited to andays as determined by the city.
The applicant shall meet all conditions ofEngineer.the Assistant City
10. The applicant shal1 comply with a1I conditions of the siteplan approval .
SITE PLAN
7
8
9
The applicant has addressed the sitelandscaping and directing traffic on
Recomnendat ion
Planning staff recommenCs thefollowing motion:
Planning Commission adopt the
pl an
and
issues, i. e.off the site.setbacks,
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of#88-10 dated July 11, 1988, with the iollowing
I. The site plan sha1l meet the conditions ofuse permit approval.
The wa1l signs shall meet the
No signage will be permitted
A11 rooftop equipment must bedirection -
Site Plan Review
conditions:
the condi tional
requirements of the ordinance.
on the gas canopy.
screened from view from any
2
4
5
6
7
The trash enclosure must be LotaIIy screened.
The applicant shall not receive a building permit until MnDOThas approved access permits for Hr.ry. 7 and Hwy. 41, the accesspoints have been installed and the final plat and developmentcontract. for HSZ had been recorded. with Carver County.
The revised plan shall be reviewed and approved by the
Minnesota Department of Transportation piior to final siteplan review and comply with their conditions.
Planning Commissi.on
September 15, 1988
Page 4
8. Storm sewer calculations sha1l be submitted to the City
Engineer for approval prior to final site plan review.
9. An erosion control plan shall be submitteal to the City
Engineer for approval prior to final site plan review.
10. The applicant shall provide Ehe City r.rith a copy of the exe-
cuted roadr.{ay easement for the portion of Lot 2, Block I
which serves the westerly access for the subject parcel.
11. Utility service for this property is contingent upon the HSzsite improvements .
ATTACHMENTS
Planning Commission minutes dated August 3, I988.
Memo from Larry Bro$rn dated Septenber 14, 1988.
Light plan.
Letter from applicant.Staff report.
1
2
3
4
5
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Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 34
Wildermuth: I
HeadIa: Den i aI
Conrad: I don't
agree with whatrs been said.
is consistent.
have anything ne$, to add.
Ellson moved, Ernnr i ng s seconded that the pranning commission recommenddenial of the Hidden varrey center site pran beiause it confricts with theproposed official Map for the relaignment of TH rot. Arr voted in favorand the motion carried.
_(
PUBLIC HEARING:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST
NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS DI STRICT7 AND HWY 4I, SUPERAMERICA.
PubIic Present:
Name
Betty Lang
A1len putnam
Bob Wagner
Gene Conner
Roman MueL l er
Bud
Randy Pe ter s on
Roger Zahn
Sandy
Jo Ann Olsen and Larrythe Site plan Review-
TO PERMIT GAS PUMPS ON PROPERTY ZONED BN,AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF HWY
Address
2631 Forest
6285 Chaska
2 5I1 Orchard
2521 Orchard
SuperAmer ica
S upe r Amer i ca
Real Es tate
HSZ
Aven ue
Road
Lane
Lane
Agent for Appl icant
Brorrn presented the staff report on this item and
Arren Putnam: r live at 62g5 chaska Road whicil is just to the east of theproposed si.te. That just off of the street r live 6.,, TH 4r where thetraffic has been getting worse there more and more. r believe that gaspumps located on this site, and this site has been brought before thisbody. in the past. Traffic was a major concern for this particular siteand- by putti.ng a 12 outreE gas staElon there, even any gas stati.on therewourd significant increase the traffic turning oit tg'7 onto TH 4r to comeinlo that area- rt wourd increase the traffic on TH 4r. There are sixgas stations within a mire of that rocation "o.iuniry in ttre Excelsiorarea. Three of them rocated right on TH 7. Because of that, r wourd askthat this body deny the motion to put gas pumps at this location.
Chairman Conrad called the pubJ-ic hearing to order.
Betty Lang: I live 2631 Forest Avenue anddry before when you taLked about this cute
I thought this was all cut andIit.tIe shopping center that lras
,.
r
Allen Putnam: Did Chanhassen run the number ofexpected typical at a SuperAmerica?
Brown: Through the Hsz site, because it's fairJ.y common that the parkingIot is going- to pick up from the exhause fumes, Et"., part of thestructures that have been.proposed here in the storm siwer system by thewatershed District in trying to maintain the $rater quarity, is a deiicethat would skim off the oirs that courd possibly e.,fer into the pondingsystem and the storm sewer system. so that device wirl prevent lhe oils,the gasorines heading straight through to the lake. Alr the water qualityissues have to be addressed through ihe watershed District as werl.
Conrad: Does this put any new perspective, having a gas station on thiscorner versus a restaurant or whatever some of us might have imaginedbefore, your comfortabre that the runoff from the gai station is not goingto pose any addiEional probJ.ems to water quality because of the skimming -
devices that wetre talking about?
Bro$rn: The natural run-off that we have through any parking lot, r.rhetheritrs going. to be a gas station or a restaurant is going Lo 6e the same.r.rm not going to speak in regard to if there's a mijor-gasorine spilrthere. My prevj.ous corunent regarding the gasoline itation may becorrected that we do have gasoJ.ine once in a whire that maybe a coupredrops here or there or whatever that may come out of the spouts as thecustomers firl his car, in that aspect ihe concentration o-f oirs that comeoff the parking 1ot could be i ncreased. Thankfurly Hsz, through theirplanning of their parking rot, was concerned about that as the watershedDistrict vras and tbey did install, or have proposed to instarl a skimmingdevice- That device vrould in fact take care of not onry the HSz proposedstrip center but the run-off i.ncurred by the proposed sA station as werr.Again, this would not Eake care of any inforeseeable event. I can,timagine what would happen then but any expected use in thi.s area wourd beaccomodated for $rith that skimming device.
f
cars that would be
Randy Peterson: I represent the real esEate investmentRandy Peterson. I have here of f ic j.als from SuperAmericaany of these questions and the design of the b;j.lding tomodel. Would you Iike that done at this point?
Conrad: Go ahead. Why not?
firm.
that
sho w
My
can
you
name Is
answer
the
Randy peterson: AIso,
we do have a hard timedi fficul t time. It may
other thing Ehat I did in talking to staff
TH 7 access is cut off. We have a verymay not work, like I said but we need TH 7
one
if
or
was,
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 35
going in and nothing to us about a SuperAmerica. Eor one thing, they haddiscussed before the run-off in which they were going to have a hordingpond. what kind of run-off are you going to have ar6und Lake Minnew"=6tu? -Another thing, ...gas stations have been brought up many ti.mes and I donrtthink...
Conrad: Jo Ann, in terms of run-off?
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Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 36
Conrad: TeIl us a little bit about aa pump, a spill. A major spill. Notidylling and oil and a tittte bit of
How $rould that affect the partjcular
Iooked at?
{
access if at all possibre. That isn't an. issue here rearry and it's beingworked on as r understand right now but that'!s not on oua.-.. He asked aquestion on the cars right? This is what it,s going to iooi rit.. Romando you want to come up because you're a rittle nett6r advised on this.This is a whore new design thatis coming into the cities. ioo're one ofthe first to be seeing this design ana i'rI let him take it from here.
Ronan MueIIer: Werve aII met before. Irm Roman MueIIer r,rithSuperAmerica. this is our latest prototyp_- design that werre proposingfor this area- changes to a more iesiaeniiat stlre than oui oraer fratroof buirdings- coing to a lighter style brick, solarium on it. The samebasic entranceeray. you see a ixytit aiea over the entrance. Differentsrgnage appearance on the outside of the building with l-ighting up to thisedge. putting a stripe trim on it. rrying to mike it br;;i betrer withthe residentiar locations where we,re buiLding more often than not thesedays. one thing rtd like to cr-ear up what was stated in the report, thereare 6 pumps capabre of serving 12 cars. Those are not 12 pumps. Thereare more than 12 hoses. Each dispenser has 4 hoses on ".ci: =ia. urt onryone can be operated at a time giving a maximum of 12 cars to be serviced:r just want to make that very clear. This is the styre dispenser we,rediscussing. on the question of traffic that was brought up', we've donenumerous traffic studies aE a number of different tocitions and each andevery one of these around the country has shown that over g0% of thetraffic that draws into our site comEs from existing traffic in the areaso the impact of increasi.ng the traffic flow in the area is not that much.Thatrs the simplest it can be put on the traffic issue. yes, we doincrease the number of turning motions in the area but werre notincreasing the traffic. There is some concern about. theft in an existingconvenience store and rrc rike to point out one of the differences Ehat ;ehave between ours and a majority oi other convenience store operations.That's the number of people r^re have on duty in our shifts. they,rerunning 2 to 3 peopre on duty. using the buddy system more often than notversus many of our competitors using a single empl0yee at any .oarticulartime making them more susceptibre to theft becauie ihere's no one there towatch but one person on duty. r think the issue of contamination was veiywell handled. rf peopre really look into the issue of cars driving ont;-'the area, you'll find out Ehat actualry the asphart is going to be puttingout more contaminates than the cars driving on it for the most part- in th6initial stage of the project.
djsaster though. A disaster meaningjust minor stuff. A car sitting andgas, Irm talking about a major spilI.drainage that our engineers have
Roman Muerler: one of the thi.ngs that is required of us and we do on arrour sites Ehese days is there is a spirr containment program estabrishedfor the store in lrhich the grade in the area, all aquifiis, all watersystems are rooked at. The drainage to them. The peopre that need to becontacted to stop any type of a spill to contain it as it traveLs.Notification of Fire Marsharrs. Everybody we can think of is listed in
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Planning Commission Mee t j. ngAugust 3, 1988 - page 37
each store and it goes down starting at the first person to be carred ondown so we can control it if it does happen. The potential. is alwaysthere. Anytime you have a human worki.ng with something that can bespilled, it can happen. Wetve got an extremely good record at our storesto this point in time. I'm not aware of any major spills that we've had.Werve had some minor ones where a truck driver is not following the rulesand is not watching when he's filling and it will overfl,ow. Theunderground tank, werre taking preventative measures now with a systemthat hrill shut it off in the tank before he can overfill it. That,sagain, a part of the new system we,re putting in as well as the inabilityfor the gasoline to travel up through the vent pipes and be spilled outthrough that area. We are addressing those issues because they are veryimportant to us as they are to everybody else.
Emmings: Will, this store have access to that system?
Roman Mueller: This store wiII have that system. We are starting as ofthis summer putting that system in every store. What it is, it's a
containment system at the tank that as you fiII it, it begins to slow thefilling from the truck which immediately the tank driver is going tonotice. It begins to slow as it gets towards the top. If it gets to thetop, therers a baII valve in there thaE shuts it off and then there's a 2ggallon container above the tank that will hold all of the gases in theline. so if he's standing there, he shuts it off, he hasnrt got anythingto do with that 20 gallons in the line, he pulls the hose off. It will
dump into thj.s secondary containment and as the tank is Iowered by people
pumping gas, fuel will drain back into the tank. So the possibility orthe probability of an overfilt is almost non-existent. At the dispenserswhere the gasoline actually comes out of the ground, it's been requiredfor years for a valve to be put in there. If somebody drives across andhits the dispenser, knocks it completely off the island, the valveautomatically trips and shuts. It's just a very, very simple trip valvethat's in there so the gas can,t come out of the dispenser then either.
Conrad: TaIk to us a little bit about traffic. SuperAmerica is a realfine operatj.on and I'm pleased to see, it's just a good operation. Itrsso good that I perceive, I get a problem with what Irm seeing on theboard. Access. I still have the problem now, I have an additionalproblem that if we donrt have TH 7 access, r^rhat that does to trafficcoming in. rt's like we're begging for another probrem here. we not onlyhave the other Hsz traffic that's going to come into the site, vre norr, havaa whole lot more coming in from possibry one site and location and that'sa real concern to me.
Roman Muerrer: r think in just a very brief moment r had to read throughthe staff recommendations, r thought that was pretty werl handl-ed in thitif the access from TH 7 isn't arlowed, we don,i get-building permits.Also, that issue is primariry someEhing that's b6en dealt with tne nszdevelopment. Access, understaodabl,y this is operating. we are developingonly the rot area that you see in front of us. The aicesses to the areaare whatever Hsz rives with. I didnrt understand that access wouLd be anissue involved with our conditional use permiE.
L
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 38
{
{L
conrad: werl, did he -reflect accuratery the staffrs report? l,ty opinionof how r read the staff's report is, we $rould not deny iheir appriiationgiven TH 7 access. That's the way r reviewed it. yoi.re asri.ng for, theappricant shall not receive a permit until MnDot approves accesi from TH 7but you haven,t conditioned it on access to TH 7.
olsen: rf itrs found through that access permit to use that site canfunction just off of that one access on TH 41, that's through MnDot, thesite could function separately. r think everybody is thinkinq that theTH 7 access wirr stilr be permitted. rf it doesni t r think c[anges wirlbe made.
conrad: How does this superAmerica affect all of the concerns, arr theaccess concerns because it is a high traffic generater. rt's not rike arestaurant where you have turnover every harf hour. rt is a high trafficgenerater every hour. How does that impact what werve previousry seenwith this whole site? rn terms of trafiic studies, shoi:ld we refer toLarry?
Brown: Tvro things, t'd rike to carl your attention to condition 9 of thesite pi-an- rt states that the appricint shalr not receive a buildingpermit until MnDot has approved iccess permits for TH 7 and TH 4l-.
Conrad: So if they don't approve TH 7, then what happens?
Brown: Then it wourd have to come back to the pranning commission. Toaddress your second concern, if you,re satisfied wit.h Lne first.
Conrad: WeI1, that clarifies that condition.
Ann,
TH
Randy Peterson: Say Jo
because just eliminating would that really take pl,ace, to come back indoesnrt change our site plan though?
According to thi s wiII.
7
itElIson:
Ol sen :The whole HSZ site will have to come back.
Brovrn: The HSZ site was, correct me if Irm wrong Bathose accesses. Unfortunatley your s j.te is a pait oplat does not receive approval r then there is ieallythat h,e can proceed with Ehat. The second point Urotraffic, one of the things that staff Iookei at vras,genEleman from SuperAmerica brought this up as well,traffic that $rill be serviced by SuperAmerica in fac
Hor", many peopJ,e drive 30 miles out of their way to gSuperAmerica right now is, I think you've heari theidepending on this movemenE to direct the eastbound tand in onto the site from TH 41. From a traffic volwould rather take this free right turn if it,s grantand contioue the continous path back out to TH t thahere, waiting at the light, making this turnr gettincoming back out and doubling back. If in fact MnDotthat no access is permitted at this point, more than
rb, was approved wi thf that Plat. If thatno reasonable way
ught up reg ard i ngI believe thethe majori ty of the
E is already there.o to Ehe gas station?r indication is,
raffic into their site
ume standpoint, people
ed by MnDot, fill upn they would com i ngg into SuperAmer ica,
comes back and sayslikely it's bound to
t
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Planning Commission Mee t j. ngAugust 3, 1988 - page 39
reduce this traffic vol umethat movement.
here because people are not as wJlling to make
t
Conrad: No, I don't agree \^rith that. youtre absolutely right, you,regoing to do the most convenient thing. That right in accesi is veryimportant. Irm sure it's very important to SuperAmerica. I don't -know
that theyrd want to be in this location if they have, the same logic holdsto get in 300 feet away from a site and try to rrrork your vray back tosuperAmerica is not the most convenient access to a gas station eilher.rrm really concerned with the overall traffic. The amount of traffic that
now potentially is in that site. Either coming in right-in or exiting bygoing Ehrough Lhe HSZ site. Most of your gas stations are designed, you-get in and you go right back out to vrhatever highway. Now rrer re routingthem, there's no right-out. There's no right-out as we go to the north.You've got to wiod through the rest of the site and then we go out to acongested intersection because the rest of the shopping center is going tobe pulling in some folks.
Roman l'lueIler: Increasing the left turn off of TH 7?
Conrad: But basically at this point in time Larry, yourre not concernedabout the amount of traffic. The amount of traffic thatrs coming to that
one intersection, that intersection wiII be able to tol-erate in thefuture. Assuming that therers no right-in off of TH 7, you're convincedthat that one access wil-l accomodate all the needs for the HSZ site andthe SuperAmerica which could generate, I don,t know hohr many cars an hourbut it r^rould be a significant number of cars because it's a goodoperation. It's a natural draw. people are going to go there regardless.They're going to wind their way throuqh. Not as many as if they had TH 7but theyrre still going to get there. youtre not concerned?
Bro$rn: Obviously it's a concern. From staff's viewpoint it's not a verygood traffic Plan as you mentioned here and staff surely would have lovedto have these issues all cut and dry before we had brought approval about.
Conrad: What internal , within the HSz site, what internal trafficproblems do you see if the TH 7 is not there?
Brown: From the Hsz site, HSz I believe, for their main access is goingto depend on this intersection on TH 4l right no$r. r donrt see any real.strong impacts with this. Obviously they're not goinE to have, asI mentioned before, the entj.re volume that they would like to see corningoff of TH 7 because some people are going to say, it's more convenient Lokeep on going through out to rrherever but as fai as the outloEs, yes itdoes have an impact because of the rerouting of traffic.
Conrad: Hohr do you merge the shoppj.ng center traffic $rith the gas stationtraffic? Is there any cross traffic there? It looks like there isoit buthor., do you get the other shopping center traffic in que to get, out on
t TH 4L? Irm directing my comments to our engineer beCause I lranE him to\ talk about iE but jump in if you,ve got some answers.
(
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 40
Emmings: If you're parked in here, how do I get out of
Roman Mueller: yourre going to have north up to
Emmings: Okay, sothere?the only way into you can't go
Roman MueIIer: One thing I wanted to point out that I don,t know ifthere's confusion here or what' but thi comment about peopre fron the sAwandering through the site is somewhat off because ttrri-ii-trre access offof the SA site to the service road onto TH 41 at this point. so theyrrenot entering anvthing thar is conrrorred arive.- Ti.,-;; ;;;";;r vranderingthrough this area. They do not have to come f rorn this !oin! ao*., and thenthrough and around - The access is here and the lray our isrands are laidout. it more or less funnels the people in that aii"ction.--
Conrad: If we lose the. TH.7 site and you,ve got people coming and goingout and then coming right back down, it's a two $ray and the onry access tothe site- Then as vou exit, how do you merge that iraffic with the trafficfrom the rest of tfie sitee' gow is ttat"'rinea upa r can,t visualize it?How do the parking people at the site get in line?
to go
this,
there?
the drive.
in anywhere along
Roman Mueller:
SA site and putentire bus i ness
and out of ournot going to go
cIoseIy.
ALLen Putnam:out the model ,me if in your
maga z i nes ?
Roman Mueller:at subs tan t i. al
Correct. Only at thj.s point. Take off of let,s say thea stop sign there... Keep in mind from our aspect, ouris built around convenience. If a person can not move insite with some Ievel of convenience, we know that theyi."'-there. We go through the traffic i=ru". very, very
conrad: rrm sure you do. rrm sure yourre much more versed in it than r
Allen Putnam: I have a question. Is theand your convenience store tied together?do one without the other?
Ronan Mueller: Irve never presenEed that.
AIIen Putnam: I assume theyr re considered as one?
approval of the gas pump permitIn other words, you would not
conrad: rt's kind of confusing administrativery from my standpoint rightnow. In our public hearing.wetre trying both t6geth.r -.ight nor. Interms of how they approach it, a pubtic hearing f,.= to be held for aconditional use permit and that's r^rhat we're r6ally going through bu!we're rearly getting, into. some site pran reviews .igtt n6, *i,i.t r"-=ortof fogging some of these issues.
I have anoEher question thatrs related to, since he brouqhtrelated to the convenj.ence store and that is, "un vo"-i.ii-convenience stores now, do you have any pornographii
No, we
expense
do not. They were pulled out a number ofto the company. Bud, do you remember?
years ago
r
Planning Commission Meeting
August 3, 1988 - page 4I
Bud KeIp: Yes, they were pulled out approximatelythe convenience chain in the country to pull thoseshelves at a cost, profit of over 3 million dolLarsit.
3 years ago. We were
books off of oura year but we pulled
Allen Putnam: And you have no intentions of puttj.ng them back?
Bud Kelp: No sir.
Gene Conner, 2521 Orchard Lane: In the consideration of the original HSZproposal, one of the prime reasons that came up over and over about the,would say, the necessity for a TH 7 access was for emergency vehiclesservice to that area. It hasn't been mentioned here at all tonight. Iunderstand that the whole thi.ng may not be viabte but that was one of theprime reasons, aside from business. Your emergency services are on TH 7and you put a gas station in there, and I kno$, that they take all thesafety precautions in the wor1d, you are indeed increasing your risk ofthe need for emergency services which I don't think you can handle
adequately with TH 7 lost.
I
(
Roman Mueller: One thing getting back to the TH 7 access, it's really notan issue with our conditional use permi!.
Conrad: That is true. We've merged two issues here. We have and you didit, not me. You brought this up. I was trying to keep the items separatebut you decided to come up and show us this and that is merging site plan
review with conditional use permj.t request and I rras trying to keep themseparate a littl-e bit so we didntt do what you're experiencing right now.
But. anyway, as the Planning Commission operaEes, ere will vote on those, r.vewill review them separately. Our discussion has merged the two together.It's stiII a public hearing.
Bob liagner , 25LL Orchard Lane: vie had a neighborhood meeting last
Thursday and of course some of the quesEions r4rere addressed and theopinion was asked of how I felE. I said I,l,I f Iov, with t.he feeling of theneighbors who are closest and that's what I,m here to tell you about soI'm addressing not myself but several people. We've talked about, andI'11 try to jump over Iooks quickly, but r^re talked about cosmetics. LikeI have a mustache and this fella has a mustache, you fellas don't but r./eall have faces and when hre get right down to it, it's stiu- a gas station.
However cosmetic they want to figure, we have a gas station. That brings,in my opinion, contamination in several areas. we,ve talked about thepossibility of contamination of fuel buE I,d like to talk abour. theintensity. The 24 hour useage. The type of fuel. If wetre going to havedeisel there, I realize it's not J-ikely but Ceisel fuel can pull that oddtruck in that's running out of fuel to that thing at 2.gq in the morning.I'm not excited abouE that. The hours I th ink are a big issue. We satbefore this group and said we want BN to preserve the integrity andsomethj.ng less than corunerciaL. !{hen I think of commercial, I think ofgas stations and I th ink of 24 hours and I think a lot of the things r.re'reIooking at here tonight, which I donrt think is the direct ion that theneighborhood and this group and the group above this one has tarked about
t
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Bob Wagner: Itrs notdidn't have last time
the win-win situation that Mr.
and . . .
HeadIa thought we
for 3 years. Traffic patt.ern has been mentioned and r don't think r,re needto go into that. The whole area to me is, is this looa-ior-tf,eneighborhood? rs it good for the area? when w" tuit iuoui peopre driveby this and theytre going to get gas if they need gas. WeIl; that,sargument. is good for people who diive by nere and fhey can live inresidential houses here. people come b| here and [i,"y .outJ n"y uhamburger here if it was something else-. r donrt leai to that argumentvery. strongry- r do lean to something much ress commerciar however and rthink thatrs been the i.ntent and the integrity that the communrty and theCity of Chanhassen has worked for.
Gene Conner: Arso, it's been stated that the petition of the superAmericastation, and I have nolling against SuperAmeri;a. I buy a lot of gas atsuperAmerica but the addition of a sup;rAmerica station ,ooid .dd noaffect on the volume of traffic along TH 7 and TH 41, that,s probablytrue. rt r^ronrt increase the volume of traffic but therers a nerr of a bigdifference betr,reen traffic flowing by on the highway and stopping,starting and the generar increasiig io the noi"6 ""itu;;";ai;;, ii youwant to calr it contamination. r object strenuousry to the concept of a24 hour operaEion out there as Bob wagner said. rhit does not fit at arrr.ri th what I think we were soLd in a u6ry fine seltinq job-lt HSZcorporation. The concept of a 24 hour ?uel operatioi 6oes iot fit at allwith the neighborhood shopping center and witir adequate uermrng and arr,the rest of that, I think we were sold a very f ine.-.fL
Bud Kelp: My name is Bud Kelp, I represent SuperAmerica as irell as someof these. other guys. . one of the things about the 24 hour operation, thatis a period of time when we do a rot 6f business. our ar".ig" transactionin.a 8 hour, II:Afi p.m. to TrOA a.m., is approximately I75 vehicles.Between 11:00 and 12.09 we wourd estimate on an average of maybe 50. From52Ag to 7:gO a.m., o! an average of 60. So from midnight to 6:00 a.m.werre tarking about 65 or 6 r/2 vehicres per hour. rn that period oftime, that is when a rot of cJ-eaning up ii done in the store. stockingthe sherves, some of the paperwork is accomplished and policing of theoutside area. These are things that are done at night. A lot of timesyour tanker comes and drops itrs gas so that they'r6 not there in thedaytime congesting the driver,ray, blocking the driveway, whatever. Thequestion was asked how many transactions a day wourd ie assume $re $rourdhave. lve wourd estimate approximately a total of goo transactions. Thatwould figure out to be., if they just iook it over a 24 hour period, 33;;hour but there are peak periodi obviousry. They might doubre tnat u*oonibet\"reen 7 zAQ and 8:30 in the morning.
Bob Wagner 2 869
Bud Kelp: yes.
'\_ Bob Wagner: How
per day?
24 hours. That.s in a 24 hour
many did you say between 11:09
period.
and 7 2 g0?
Planning Commission Meeting
August 3, 1988 - page 42
t
Planning Commission Meeting
August 3, 1988 - page 43
Bud Kelp: We estimat
11:00 p.m. and 7t00 a
We have people going
from 8:qq to 3.39 orgot people working thpurchase food i tems .convenience. Itrs ato have an 18 hour. we've had more i.ncidents when the store crosed at acertain given hour, be it L]-.Og oy L22OA. There were incidents thathappened where the people were forced back into the store in a safesurrounding. our crime rate at superAmerica is extremery low. we don'teven tark about it because we don't have a lot of probrems. r canrt evenremember, Irve got an area supervisor here that could probably telI thelast time he had a store hold up. I don,t know if he even had one.
ed
.m
to
4:ir
T
1o
I75. That's an average. Thatts just between
The other thj.ng is that we cater to all people.work, everybody isnrt fortunate that can just workSg. ilerve got people working second shift. Werved shift.. These people, they purchase gas. Theyhey purchase things too. we're there for theirt, we found, safer to be open 24 hours than it is
Area Manager: During my 3 years as annortheast Minneapolis that experiencedis Burnsville, Eden prairie, Mound and3 years, Irve never run into any kindrobbery or anything like that.
area manager, I've had one store ina robbery. easically my territoryIrve had those stores for the past
of threatening, Iife threatening or
Bud KeIp: I guess what I'd like to sum up is that SuperAmerica $rants tobe part of the community wherever we,re at. We encourage our managers tojoin the local chambers or whatever. The company itseli is city minded.There are many, many things we do for the communities Ehat we,re in likehrhat I just did recently was donating of bullet proof vests to Tr^rin Citydepartments. we did that at a cost of half a mj.llion dollars. We didthat in Milwaukee as well as here. Every city, for every store that ithad, received 3 bullet proof vests compliments of SuperAfterica. We just
had the big run for MS. $250,OOg.gg was donated. This was sponsored bySuperAmerica. Werre able to do these things, yes we are a big company.Therers no question about that but r think in each community we're small.We're not big because we $rant Eo be a part of that community and we wantthe store to be a part of that community. we offer jobs to children. rrvebeen eJith the company for 23, going on 24 years and I came through theranks. I rras a store manager at one point. I was an area supervisor atone Point. Today I'm working with the zoning and permit end of it. I'veseen a lot of young people come through our stores and today have veryresponsible positions in.the community and theyire thankfur that they gottheir start at SuperAmerica. As far is the 24 hour issue, yes jtrs - -
important for us to deal with. It is not mandatory for us. I rrouldnr tvrant to jeopardize the approvar based strictly on the hours of operationbecause rrre could compromise there. If it came dor.rn to iE but there aremany things that need to be done during that thi.rd shi.f t period of time.We certainly vrouldn, t like that option taken away from us.
sandy: r understand that superAmerica has...in the Tsrin cities. r don,tIdhat percentage of them are 24 hour operations but r do know that theyhave a store at the corner of Er.ring and Lake in downtoern l,tinneapolis ihatis not open 24 hours and iE is in a neighborhood. ...a very crean store.Itrs a nice store, that's fine but it is not open 24 hours lnd it doesblend in with the community. I think having to change...,which youmentioned yourserf during the night hours and my houae is right over the
I
t
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 44
Roman MueIIer: Out ofour site to your home?
if
curiousity, can I ask you what the distance is from
the hi11.
development.
hrith the area than I
next to me and
the development.
gearing back up now.
to hear an amount of
them going into SuperAmerica even more.
wise, yourre primarily concerned by the trucks
cornerr learing dovrn and then gearing back up is totalry unnecessarycontamination in our communi.tyl Thi; is a nlighborhoodl ttrey snouraconform. to. the neighborhood h6urs._ They don,t go 24 hours a day. Wesreep at nighE because we work.during tire day "na r tninr superAmerica,indeed you alrow them. to coine in her6, -even though r do not agree thatthey should because they have an access problem, -they sh-uid conform Eothe neighborhood.
r
Sandy: Oh, what would you say Bill? Irm right over
Bob Wagner: Itrs one of the houses that borders the
Roman Mueller: you folks are obivously more familiaram. About Ir SAA feeL?
Gene Conner: About that far.
Roman Mueller: Out of curiousity, which side?
Sandy: My house is right here and my neighbor is sittingher house is right here.
Roman Mueller: So relatively well blocked by all of
Sandy: I currently hear the trucks gearing down and
Roman I'lueller: I can understand that. you,re goinghighway. . .
Sandy: I'm going to hear
Roman MuelLer: Thegoing in and out of
notse
there?
Sandy: frm concerned by Ehe 24 houraccess. I'm concerned by the soundyou I ve said.
Conrad: Talk to us a littlegoing into this site?
concerned by theirreEardless of what
traffic. I,m
con tami na t i on
biL about Erucks, diesel fuel and trucks
Roman Muerrer: currentry it's not pranned to have dieser fuer in there.As long as we're rooking for a lesson on contaminates, dieser fuer isactuar'ry the least conEami.nate that you can put products in the ground.Trucks seem to be a concern. The tiucks "oi'i.,g'up and ru-ring ;iah----diesel fuer, currentry. r've been. taking dieser iuei out of most rocationsthat have dieser fuel in it and it's n;t schedured to go in this rocation19 i!'s not going to be drawing the odd truck thaE com6s in there. A rotof the city trucks run on gasoJ-ine anyhray. The noise that's in there,therers a conditi.on in here under rec6mmendation from staff that the
!
(
Planning Comm j. ss i on MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 45
public address system canrt. be audibre to any residentiar parcel . That'sin the condition. I believe we can control that. That's not a problem.
we work with people on that all the time. Truck noise, I guess $re canrtstop the trucks noise out on the highway and yes, there wilr be automobirenoise in the area no matter what. I would like to point out that ourbuilding separates from the islands to the areas as rrell as the othardevelopments in the area. The vegetation thaE rrve understood is going tobe pranted in that area, r had one brief glance at the overarl vegetationplan so that portion I can't speak for. And if I remember correcily onthe recommendation from staff, they're having us plant several coniferoustrees in that area to help block sound, light, etc.. We are addressingthaE problem.
cene Conner: Excuse me, this has gotten akin to, it sounds like do weover here are trying to . . . superAmer ica . That,s certainly is not the case.
SuperAmer j.ca I think, certainly I would be, SuperAmerica proposes a fineoperation. As service station operations go, I have no objections toSuperAmerica. The objection that I think we aII have is that it does notfit with what lre were told that this site plan approval for HSz was goingto be. It does not fit the neighborhood business concept of limited time,rather low key, quiet operation. No matter ho$, fine your operation is,you canrt convince me that itrs going to be consistently quiet. Itcertainly is going to be bright. It,s going to be lit up aII the time. Ican understand how theyrd be...24 hour a day operaEion. I doubt if itwould be viable if it was completely limited to the hours that we wouldlike to see if gas tanks are allowed in there. ...SuperAmerican but itdoes not fit with what we were sold very hard over a very l-ong period oftime. In rezoning that from a single family to residential area all the
eray up to a business neighborhood. It's exactly vrhat many of us said wewere afraid of years ago. Once you start the commercialism, it is goingto go on and on and upward and upward uotil we lose control of it. Wefeel wer ve lost control.
Sandy: This is j ndeed an escalation of what we had...
Bud Kelp: I have just presented some pictures that you can look at.Lighting. The type of lighting that Super,America uses at itis location.Downcast lighting. It does not light up the neighbors, especially this isideal, if the closest house is 5Og feeE, they ara not going to be affectedby the J.ighting of SuperAmerica. It is not going to shine into theirhouses because as the picture illustrates, ii's downcast Iighting.
Headla moved,favor and the
Conrad:
issue of
separate
through
sa y?
seconded
carr ied .
El l son
moti.on
to close the public hearing. AI1 voted inThe public hearing was closed.
As we made comments, werII vote on these issues separately. Thethe conditional use and the site plan but I think it,s hard tothem as we talk so feel free to address both j.ssues as vre gothe Commission. Dave, start at your end. What do you have to
{
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 46
Area Manager: Most of our locations thata day. Eor a station of this size, it is169 by Flying Cloud Airport and that qersSometimes one depending on the traffia butevery other day. The same size tanks.
are extremely busy
more comparable toa tanker every t!.ro
you ' re looking at
get a tan kerthe one on
days.
unleaded
Headla: So that wouldthere.be the maxinum major truck traffic going through
Roman Mueller: And rre can, I should mention, controldeliver. If there's a problem there at night, we haveto tell them so Ehat can be something to consider.
their th ey
powe r
hours tha twithin our
(
HeadLa: r'd kind of like to see it go in there but we started outjust office building in there and then we made the neighbors buckleand we let this other stuff. Now werre going onu ^oa"-to gu= pr*p=now this thing 24 hours- r don't kno, rrow far we shourd prlsh thesepeople- That'!s nothing, r don't have anything against suierAmerica
wi th
und er
and
aE
Headra: r tarked to Barb about this. r tooked at this prace as very muchlike the superAmerica at rH 4 and TH 5. rrve gone in there at manydifferent hours and r think the homes are pret.iy much the same as theywourd be over here at rH 7 and TH 41. earb, dia you get a chance to tarkto Eden Prairie people?
Dacy: I asked Jo Ann to contact the staff.
olsen: r discussed whatever issues they had for their Eden prairie site,if !!gy had any problems. or what good p6ints or whatever. They did have atraffic issue because_ with the imfrove;ents to TH 5 and TH 4, the trafficwas going to have to.be routed thiough residential stieeis so that wastheir major issue which vras not a coicern at this site. The righting,they- said if they courd change it they would have trre canopy r,i6hts ;hichwe already have in a condition. The ioise, it is ario-"p.i'za iours, theyhave not had any conditions placed about that.
Headla: The 24 hour operation didn't bother them?
olsen: No, they wourd just reduce the amount of right, to receed them forany impacts to the surrounding area. The major i...i" wa=-again thetraffic, those commericar. sites, they have a chiropracter brlsi.ness therearso, using that residentiar street. That was a mllor issue. other thanthat, they had no real complaints from the neighborfiooa.
Headla: One of the ladi.es that called me from that area was quiteconcerned about noise and traffic. That's why r was i.nterested to see!',hat you found on that traffic. How big are those fuer tanks that youhave in the ground ?
Roman Muelrer: That werre proposing here? Three Lg,qoq galron tanks andone 12,009 gallon tank.
Headla: So you're bringing in maybe two tankers a day?
(
Planning Commission Meeting
August 3, 1988 - page 47
al-l. I think maybe we've come to a limit. The only other thing Irve gotis I see an awful lot. of conditions on the recommendations. when I seeall these conditions and it really tells me that your consultants didnrtdeal in earnest with the staff. Rev ise plan, Eevise plan. Revise thelandscaping plan. Provide plans. The site plan shaIl be revised. Revisethe plan. Why didn't the act get cleaned up before this even came inhere? I just think itrs excessive and somebody didnrt sit down and dealin earnest with this ap.
Olsen: A lot of those are just, the landscaping issue and the lightingissues were conditions of staff after it came in. It,s not necessarilythat the applicant didn,t provide it.
Headla: How come so many
you sit down
revised plans?
with the appl icant and go through aI1 this?
haven't seen them and
Erhart: Did
Headla: You
obviously you
Roman Mueller:
talk about revised plans and we
haven ' t
wha E
seen them.
you
Irm
referr ing to?
T
Headla: Items 2, 3, 4 on page 5
Roman Mueller: Okay, I guess I was going
Planning Staff. Their recommendations onconditions on there.
through recomnendations on thea motion rrhere there are I
Emmings: Yourre J.oo k i ng atthe site plan.the conditional use permit. Hers looking at
Roman Mueller:having had a chance to go through it very we11...
Bob Wagner: If
Not
this
Headla: For this size of plan, I think it,s an avrful lot of conditions.
Wildermuth: we're talking about the condi.tional use perrnit first right?
Roman MueIIer: Most
ordinance questions.
Conrad: I'rhen we vote we wi IIcondi.tional use but I thi.nk inhard to not, the issues are soI think the comments Jim, cangas station. Conditional use.
is an open hearing, I've got a few comments too.
of these appear to be just clarifications on
These are not a problem.
be talking about the site plan and thenterms of ho$, werre going through here,close that I can't keep them apart so
be made regarding anything. Site plan
the
it,s
or
wildermuth: r rearry sympathize wi.th the peopre in the neighborhood. r
1 certainly wourd not rike to have a service station crose by, within 500\ and 500 feet of where I Iive despite the fact that SuperAmerica isprobably one of Ehe class acts in the business. I'm really concernedabout the traffic, the increase in traffic thaE,s going to happen in that
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 4g
(
(
area from that corner. rt just rooks l ike that's a corner that r.rourd lenditself to a smarr office.uuitding. Accounting offices, something rikethat rather than a relatively hitn intensity uie. It,s a contusingintersection to begin with on th6 north sidl going i.rto ine-snorevroodshopping center and r think this is going to confuse it further. r thinkthat the intensity is too great, too-sev6re for this pirii.ur". corner.
Conrad: you menti.oned 900 cars a day, I converted transactions towhether thatrs right or not, thatrs wrrat it is veisu"-r["t"u". "r".generated there. AAg is not as many as I thought.
cars,
is
Erlson: Eirst r wonder vrhy this didn't come through with the originalsite plan- r feer b?dly-t-hat maybe this was being discussed and the sitepran came through initiarry becairse they thought Irrat would go througheasier and now this is coming in later. That would make me really angrybecause as I said before, I was telling you people, you know it could beworse, you courd have a gas station on that Lorner'.ia n"ie a fev, monthsI'ater comes in that gas itation. In our ordinance with a conditionar use,it has to meet a lot of different thinqs such as it has to have approachesfor cars that are not going to create lraffic congestion. - it'" supposedto be compatible with the surrounding area. Itis-not supposed todepreciate the surrounding property iarues. r think based on theseconditions, it,s not going lo Ue .6t" to meet these things so l,d bevoting down a conditional use permit for pumps.
Emmings: r donrt know where you start. Irve been here with this propertycoming in front of us a few times and itts obviousry a commlrciar corner.There were a rot of people who didn't agree with th-at uut ai least to meit was always obvious that itrs goi.ng to be developed as a commerciar,corner. we also went-to some rear pains to make sire that. as a commerciarcorner it wourd offend. the surrounding residentiar neighborhooo as littreas possible. I don't knohr exactly wh6re that takes me but now we,re in asituation- where they're asking us to take the second step and r,m sittinghere thinking to myself,.are we going to wj.nd up rrith . ;u;- station onthat corner and no shopping center because they r.rind up iot fiXing th;tfr feer like we're taking step two before step 6ne has iealry been-taken.Before we decide on this, r'd really like to go back ano to6k at. the HSithing and see if we want to puLr oui approrral of thaE based on the factthat there is one entrance. r don't tnink, every tirne i.re've got a projectthatts only got one entrance, $rerve said no. we make churches put in anextra entrance to the site because we worry about access for emergencyvehicles. The gentreman out here pointed aut the fact rhat rr.. 6e;ii,*e.,tfor that area comes from the west on TH 7.. They rearly need that iiqi,a-i.off of TH 7. r donrt know why we,re spending ait ttris-time on this intirthat issue is resorved. That kind of bothers me. r dont t kno.n why r.rehave to look at this right now. Noh, Irm going to shj.f t gears and go theother direction for a whiLe.
Conrad: So you'd rather table it?
Emmings: Oh yes. Like I say, Imushy ground with step I and iE,That really concerns me because
feel like we're takjng step 2. Werre ons just mushier when you get up to step 2.I really thjnk there,s a possibility irere
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Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 49
that if a station were suddenly to appear up there on the corner, we maynever see that shopping center back there. r don,t know how committea iszis to it. I feel like Annette, and I have of course no basis for this,that they were probabJ.y dealing with these folks when they brought in ihisother proposar. Not r donrE know if they hrere or not but m srispiciousabout it and r don'|t rike it. r donrt like the feering rrve got -about it.Thatrs offensive to me. If they had something on an overarl plan for thewhole thing, we should have seen that whole thing. Maybe thai didn'thappen that way. Letrs assume it didn't but youire stil-t stuck with thesituation where we don't know if the Hsz thing shourd have our approvalan!'more- rt hras approved with an entrance off of TH 7. That entrance isnot there an!.more and I think $re ought to 90 back and make sure we knowvrhat hre're doing there before we look at this one. On the other handthough, I don't mind this particular plan. If therets going to be a gasstation on the corner, r don't mind this one and r even thiik that ar6adown there needs a gas station. Somewhere in that $rest of Excelsior. Iwould say that if they're willing to restrict the hours of operation...
Wildermuth: Isnrt there one across the street?
Emmings: No, there's not.
{
Dacy: r can appreciat.e your concern about the right-in onry to the siteand r.rhat was originally approved with the HSZ. I just r.rant to clarifythat when the city acted to rezone the site to Neighborhood BusinessDistrict, in that analysis we changed it oI to BN and therers a list ofpermj tted uses and a list of conditional uses. Whether or not, yes theshopping center was proposed as a proposed user of the large lot but inrezoning the site to the Neighborhood Business District and making thaidecision, the Council recognized that there could be appli.cations forconditional uses such as convenj.ence stores with gas pumps. Thatrs !.rhyitrs a conditional use because iE,s a different type irt ise that thecommission has to evaLuate vJhether or not the appricant is meeting thestandards of the conditional uses in the ordinance.
Emmings: Then, looking at it strictly Lhat way, t.hen I'd have to agreewith Annette. That there are several conditions of the requirementi of
t
Wildermuth: Isn,t there one on the frontage road across the street?
Emmings: No. I live do$rn there. I have to go all the way intoExcelsior. It's no big deal but I do go into Excelsior to get gas. Iftheyrre wiIIing to Limit hours of operation, if theyrre willing to t.ellthe tankers r,rhen they can come. It sounds like theyrre r.riIIing to beflexible enough so that we could probably put sor,nething together here.Another thj.ng that I personally don't like is having aII that pop andstuff for sale pired up outside. r r.rould vrant to impose a restriction onthat. I dor-r't mind the looks of Ehe building. when you pile up 432,gqgcases of pop in front of it, it kind of takes avray from the oveiarl appealas far as rrm concerned. r'm uncomfortabre, r feel- like we,ve taken i-u.a -first step and norv r think werre being asked to take a second step and rdonrt vrant to do it. r want to go back and rook at step 1 before r evenlook at this.
{
Planning Comm j. ss i on },teeting
August 3, 1988 - page 50
the conditional use permit that this doesnrt meet.
Conrad: Which ones?
Emmings: She read most of them.
EIlson: Traffic. Congestion.
Conrad: Traffic. Congestion.
Emmings: It wiIl be aesthetically compatiblearea? Are we tal.king about just the HSZ site?
EIlson: lJill have the vehicular approaches tocreate traffic congestion. ?his is our basiswith surrounding public thoroughfares.
Dacy: But the commission's concern is that you want to make sure that theright-in from TH 7 is there, then that can be a condition of approvar orif you want to make sure that's going to be there and table .ciion, that,sanother issue but when the HSz plat -ame in, the traffic analysis for theright-in off of TH 7 and the furr inEersection of TH 4r was based on anyuse that was.going to be alrowed in that district could occupy those threelots- The right-in only and the full intersection on TH 4r is tne uestvray to serve that center as a neighborhood business user. So are yousayj.ng that the addition of t.he gas pumps is causing...
More
41.
EIlson: More traffic.then going off onto TH
the property which do notright here. Or interfere
congestion because people are stopping and
with the area.I don't think What is the
so.
intended. Trafficoutlots were going
Dacy:
wouldto be
But
come
us ed
just recogn j.ze that that was the way itin off of TH 7 and go to whatever thosefor and then travel out onto TH 4l-.
was
two
Emmings: But Barbara, thatis not quite fair because, and ItII tetl youwhy r think it's not quite fair. That ignores the whole history of theproperty. That ignores the whole controversy with the neighbors thatwerve heard over the 3 years r've been here and that had to do with thefact that we don't want intensive use of this property. It was a toughvote to get people. once we approved another irropping center in ther6 andthat ended up not being approved. r made the motion on that. rn factr- remember making the motsion...wanE to rezone this piece because r.re kno,vrhatrs going there. Dontt ask me to rezone these outlots untir r knowhlhatrs going on there and everybody sa id, oh no. you can't do that.Thatrs spot zoning or something. I got shouted down on that. No onewould swing with me on that. shour-d have done Ehe same thing here becauseI^Ihat they did is they came in with a pran for a nice littte row intensity-use shopping center and thatrs what wE focused on. werre not focused on'those empty outlots out there. They sold that to us as a row intensity--use thatrs surrounded by a residentiar neighborhood and we rinarry ari'agreed to take the step. okay, this is cr6arly a comrnercial corner, werregoing to take this step to this low intensity -use. This isn,t the same.This is a much higher intensity use and y"s it's recognized as a pot.ential
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Planning Commission Meeting
August 3, 1988 - Page 5I
use under the BN.
Dacy: Donrt misconstrue my comments. What I'm trying to drive at is, to
make sure that the Planning Commission fulIy undersEands and identifiesvalid reasons for denial based on the ordinance standards. I just r,ranLedto bring up the history when we looked at this site. That is a ZS,SSSsquare foot shopping center and that in itself does generate a lot oftraffic exceeding the 800 trips per day of SuperAmerica. I just want to
make sure that you're fully aware of atl that..
Emmings: And I guess what we're saying is, if we donrt have access off of
TH 7, do we want to have approval of that shopping center?
Dacy: Right. I'm not disputing those comments. If you feel
about that, then you have the option to make that a conditionbut the statements regarding not meeting the standards of theI just wanted to make sure that you're aware of all that.
strongly
of approval
ord i nance ,
Emmings: WeIl,
standard, IeE I swith the area.
do you?
say 8 or
How
Lq?
do you feel about the general
That it wilI be aesEhetically
lSSUlng
compat ible
Dacy: They have exceeded our standards for construction.a maximum distance away from the neigirborhood.t Olsen: ...with the new style of the brick.
Emmings: I agree vrith Ehat. If werre going to put a gas station outthere, thatrs the spot to put it. I agree with that and I have said, they
seem to be willing to work. If theytll curtail their hours of operation
and when the trucks come, I could probably be soLd on vo! j.ng for this. Myproblem is, without the access issue...
Erhart: The history is certainly a matter in this thing but looking at
where we are today and that we've zoned this as a business district andknowing quite frankly that SuperAmerica is willing to go in hereconsidering the questionable access, which I do think we ought to spendmore time at, I think rre ought to be happy that Eheyrre going to take thatoutlot. That particular lot so you don't get a gas station on the lot tothe vrest because then you are going to have problems. I think what thereal thing you can do is make sure hrhat goes into the oEher outlot iscompatible with the homes. That's it. I think you ought to look for arestaurant and be happy you're getting SuperAmerica as opposed to, I won'tmention any other names. That's the only comment Irve got.
Conrad: I don't know $rhat I had envisioned for thaE lot. I probablywasnrt_thinking gas station at the time. I think if any operator is goingto go in, I'd prefer to have a SuperAmerica than anybody else but I vrill -
echo some of the coffinents on overall traffic patEerns. That it just looksreal bad. We are Iooking at one parcel but as a part of the oveiall areaand it just makes me real nervous. part of that is due, I think, Cit.yCouncil has made some recommendations that may not be the same as whai wewould have liked to see j.n terms of access and at least in terms of r.rhat I
Itrs located at
Planning Comm i ss j.on MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 52
{would like to see. Il* probably playing with some old memories of thingsthat I envisioned differently with that-parcel versus what rn seeing t6earea turn out to be but overalr I'm stirr nervous r,rith the iraffic frow inthat area- rt's not the site as much as it is, it's not ihis particurarsite tonight, itts the overall site. rt,s going to Ue iougfi for me, Iguess I donrt have as many problems with Suleraierica goini in therebecause d rather have a fine operator in lhere than iomeiody who's notso fine but r go back and r have to relate to h,hat steve has said. whatif the shopping center doesnrt go in and I don,t know if thatrsnecessarily logic that $re can uie in making our recommena"iio., rre.etonight but it r^rourd bother me if the shopling center di;;;a 9o in. youhad a comment?
Roger zahn: r shoutd just crarify this TH 7 access. MnDot had approvedthat- right-in onry about a harf a dozen times verbarry ai meetrngi and acouple of times in writing- rt wasnrt untir last rhuisduy *t.n ie got a
:.u11 I.."* Larry saying that gee, nor,, they may be question-ing that issue.That there might not be acceis off of TH 7. tt cime up and'obviousry wewere.a rittle surprised after having it approved so maiy times. we have ameeting with MnDot on Friday. The iesult or tnat meeti;g is tnat r expectthe approval will be granted.
Conrad: But you don't knovr.
Roger Zahn: I can I tI'd have to do somespeak for them. Itthe meeting and withthink i.t would be aapproval of the TH 7
Emmings: Did they
say. before right now so obviously from my standpointrethinking if the access wasn,t granted... I can,tcertainly would add some issues ihat were addressed insome studies from our consultants that I really don,tproblem so the idea of making it conditional up6naccess doesnrt bother me at all. I r.rould preter it.
Roger Zahn: I hopeIrve heard informal
at Ieast tell you
to hear something
before -
when they would make a decision?
by the end of the week informal but
conrad: r donrt r.rant to delay this. rt,s getting late tonight. r thinkrrve heard superAmerica. say thi.ngs that r'd like [.o hear. r probably$rourd want to put them into words or paper but the rimiting of the trucktraffic and the diesel fuer, arthough that may be minor, iI stirr *uy-u"something that rrm concerned with. r'm concerned with the hours ofoperation fitting in. I think that $ras, the concept of businessneighborhood is just that. rt fits in. other business neighborhoods thatr know of, it fits into the community and r will hord you E6 those types- -
of concepts- rt fits into the "ommunity. we,re not fitting inEo TH'i:-werre not fitting into the shopping cent"r. across the way. we're fittinginto chanhassen and the communily Lrrat,s right there. i'want that to bedone. r think the aesthetics of- the buirdi;g is a nice scait but on theother hand, t.here are some other things that r want to fit in and hours ofoperation might just be one of those things. r'm stirr concerned withdisaster. I heard some good things from SuperAmerica tonight and Iguess r need those things in writing. r need to knov, that our drainageprobrems are solved even in a disaster situation. r erant Eo know whai
L
t
(
Pl,a nn i ng Comrnission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 53
they are. r think that's the biggest issue. r,m not going to dear withconcepts and Larry probably, you forks have worked with it so much more.when we rook at it, e,re spend a half an hour looking at papers and we don.t -get into it that deepry but r want to knor., that we're covered generalry interms of run-off and r think r.re are. r think the skimming devices souidgreat but r arso need to know that disasters are taken caie of too. r _heard those nice words tonight but r just wouldn,t feel good about havinga disaster on that site and not having us be able to hanale it or have tfrestorm water system take it. right to Minnewashta. r $ronr t deal with thatparticurar probrem. r've got to knoe, werve resorved it and maybe they are -but rrm not comfortabre that they are right now. r guess the iraffic- andthe circulation of the site remains to b; the bigges[ issue for me. Notonly the superAmerica site but the overarr site. r guess this adds tosome of these other comments that Dave brought up. stroutd revise andshould revise- r think the revisions are pretty small and rrm not hordingsuperAmerica or anybody responsibre. r think it,s just a matter of staffreviewing them and making those comments. r guess some of those things -d rike to have, when it gets to city councir, tney should be taken careof and there shouldn't be that many revisions that have to come. r'd riketo see those back here personally and r guess my idea tonight would be totable this until we can Eet a better handle on iome of the items. Maybeuntil we get a better handre on the TH 7 item and thar may be very siirple.You may just come back.and say it's approved. I guess I have a toughtime, Irm approaching it from an entiiily different standpoint tonilhtwithout the TH 7 access. I'm just really caught up in overall sitetraffic. rt bothers ne that r see some littre rines on there that Larry,stelling us that may be an access in there and maybe not throughgrandfathering or whatever. r don,t know rrrhat that means but that bothersme. It bothers me that we may have only one access to the overalllocation and r don't feel good giving this site the go ahead when I don't -know that the whore rocation has two sites so my preference is to tabrethe item. Irm sorry for the neighbors, maybe rre do that tonight, maybe wedonrt but we bring you in here every 2 treeks and take you through th6exercise but unfortunately when you're in an area that has rand in it,thatrs wanted, the good news is they're a great operation. The bad newsis, theyr re a great operalion that wants t.o be in-your neck of the woods.r guess the onry other comment r have, the only other thing that affects -me is this 800 car count. r thought superAmerica wourd pui:. in *o.. "ui=than that. r rearly did and.800 rearly seemed, I can armost accept 800 asnot being a major change in intensity because a restaurant mi.ght i.".iut"- _4gg or 5gg. A gas station I thought would puII in a lot more andespeciarry the pulling power of super.Lrnerica. They're like putting a cubin a rocation where you can purr from 17 mires around versus a coupre. so
9ny$ray, for those reasons I prefer to have it tabled and maybe havi itback here when we have a little bit more clarification on ti 7.
Headla:
Is Eha t
How
Iess
do you people feeL about berms between thesecure or more secure for you?
highway and there?
Roman Mueller: We have bermssite plans by conditional use
in many, many of ourrequirements such as
Locations put into ourrrhat you I re. . .t
Planning Commission Meeti ngAugust 3, 1988 - page 54
r
Headla:
goes?
Roman MueLler: That doesnoutside displays or sales,
Okay, so that doesott bother you as far as property or anything
I t bother us. Either does conditions for norequested.
Headla: I thought that was
that was
a good
concern.
point that Steve made.
Roman Mueller: It,s not a
Randy Peterson: AII Iwith tonight is if atconcerns of yours wi th
recommendations to goa timeframe here. I'dwe're scheduled also,
(
Gene conner: Therers a lot of other concerns being expressed, may rexpress one?
Conrad: Sure.
was going to say was, what I'd like to come awayall possibLe is to be able to vrork out thesestaff and get your, if possible, yourto Council with because we are on some tittle bit ofIike to go that way rather than to table it becauseand we can work out those conditions with staff.
conrad: r know you can. r guess rrrr. leave that up to whoever makes themotion tonight. we do that occasionalry r.rhen ," *u.rt to get rid of an
1!.*. vle'll get it out of our court and we,ll kick it up to city councir.rf we don't want to see it and we want to let the neighbors have tneir siywith the City Council folks, we will do that
Gene Conner: The subject of conditionalto me I heard Barb's comments imply thatrequest for a conditional use permit, ifto be accepted.
use
9€€ riils
permits
anyb odya nice
came up and it seems
who comes in with apIan, it really ought
conrad: I donrt think that'is the case. what we try Eo do on conditionaluses is detair what lhose conditions are. The city;s getting much betterat that. rn the past we'd say it requires a condilionir use-permit but !,redidn't have any condi.tions so they,d come in and say gee, nov, we get torook at it but there are no conditions so lre might is werL grant it butwe're quite a ways away from that j.n thjs clay and age, at l6ast inchanhassen and Ehe staff has gone through it, rookea at the conditions.Made their recommendations to us. we hive a disagreement betr^/een staffand Pranning commission on interpretation. rs the noise signiricantiyincreased? Traffic increased ,eisus hrhat the staff perceived to uepermitted under a conditionar use so r think therers some differences ofopinion but the conditions are stilr there. staff does not normalry gothrough, staff turns down many things because of conditions.
Gene conner: r think r can assure you that bhis doesn't fit our idea of aconditional use that should be permj.tted.
Dacy:
publ i c
bu rden
My cornnent was thaE this is why it,s a conditional use. It,s ahearing process with specific standards. The applicant has theof proof to prove whether or not he meets those 10 standards.
(
Planning
August 3
Commission Meeting
19 88 - Page 55
(
Yourre saying that they're not meeting those standards. That,s fine. TheCommission then has to decide whether or not the informati.on theysubmitted about traffic and the lighting and aesthetic quality and noiseand no diesel fuel , if that satisfies those concerns.
Bob wagner: rt's just amazing that we're even sitting here talking abouta gas station after the discussions that r've heard the same group tarkabout those. I just can,t believe it.
Arren Putnam: Yourve expressed a concern about the g00 cars and using thenumbers that you gave me where you indicated from 11:00 to 7.00 you hiveabout 175 cars. Thatrs from 11": gO to L2.gO you said 50 of them... Withthose hours being the row hours, if you take the 50 cars per hour and takethe other 16 hours in the day, that adds up to ggg and then you put the175 on top of that from 1l:00 to 1zTg, iL's already 975.
Bud Kelp: No, that's incLuding that. Subtract the 175.
Allen Putnam: I understand that but I'm thinking the 50 cars per hour yousaid you had between 11:Og and midnight. If you averaged that for yourdaytime hours, which you indicated were busier hours, just the otnei IGhours,.excluding those 8 hours you have us, would be 86A cars. 50 by 16hours is 800 plus 175.
Bud Kelp: 24 hours time the 800, you,re looking at 33 cars per hour.
Conrad: I think I want to do something here before we all 9o to sleep.gas station Iike maybe the Tom Thumb in their business nei.ghborhood onTH I01 ls a low intensive gas station use. I think here we do, in mymind, we have a Iittle bit different intensity and it has been zonedbusiness neighborhood. It's a real matter of perspective in terms ofintensity. They may get, in that particular location, they may get 4 orcars for gas in an hour and that,s a whole lot different than 30 or 50 orL5O. Anyvray, my recommendat.ion was to table it for a little bit noreinformation and review it again and brjng the forks back but I'rr open itup for any recommendation that somebody would like to make.
Emmings: Just as a quick comment, I think that Dave's point is very weIItaken. We shouldn,t get these with, this wi.Il provide you with anoPPortunity, instead of having 17 conditions on here, it should come back$rith 3 or 4. The rest of thi.s should all be incorporated in the plan. ithink these are real hard to work on hrhen they're this long. Tim,actually brought it to my atEention. When we firsE opened this up hesaid, $rha t is this.
Dacy: A lot of these are standard conditions.
A
5
Emmings: I understandcare of even before iEgoes to Council.
thi.nk a 1ot of the
and shouLd be taken
could be ta kenof before it
that but I
comes here
stuff
caret
{
r
-(
Planning Commission MeetingAugust 3, 1988 - page 56
Head I a mov ed , E'mm i ng s
#88-10 and Sit.e plan
carr ied .
seconded to table
Review #88-10. All the Conditional Use permit Requestvoted in favor and the motion
Wildermuth: Do you want to put some conditions on the tabling?
conrad: r think we can give staff direction in terms of what we'd rike tosee them bring back. r think the items deserves attention and hopefulrycan be back here in tvro weeks so we donrt destroy a time ta;re. I'd surelike-to see -the neighborhood back here again but- r thi;k ii-re ".n gir"staff some direction after this so maybe we can make the motion and thenteII them what we,d like to see. I tiink basically, t..fiic to theoverall site is a major deal. r think the potluti6n control 0r thedisaster issue for me is a concern that I'd like you to work withsuperAmerica on so $re knov, how it wourd be handlei and we would know ifit's going to get into the Minner^rashta system or not. Hours of operationis probably a concern that r.re arl have and whether or not that,s somethingthat could be worked in the staff report. steve, yourre concerned withthe...
Emmings: Hours
merchandise for
until we know about TH 7a reason to cone back?
or are we tabling i.t
to deliver and outsjde display ofthe trucks come
saIe.
Wildermuth: AIso no diesel fuel .
conrad: And possibirity maybe working with the superAmerica forks toresorve any of the conditions. rf they have to stiy out there, that'sfine. r don't think you need to do extra work to tiy and bundre them inand make them do that additionar work but if they cai incorporate them intheir plans and the document.s they've given us, -it wourd be good to havethat so $rhen it goes to city council, councir can see everything in anice, neat package. Anything else?
PUBLIC HEARI NG:
ZONING ORDINANCE
6 (B) , ACCESSORY
Conrad: I donrt
public hearing.
AMENDMENT TO AMEND
STRUCTURES, CITY OP
beL ieve that staff
SECTION 2A-9q4 AND SECTION 2S-615
CHANHASSEN.
has to give a report on that. It is a
wirdermuth moved, Emmings seconded to close the public hearing. Alr votedin favor and the motion carried. The public heaiing was closed.
the way I read th j.s now, it says detachedresidential districts. Clarify for me, aredetached garages and storage buildings?
Erhart: Page 3, item 5,in all agricultural anddifferentiatj ng between
Dacy: We wanted to make sure that a detached garage was...
garages
we
Ellson: Are we sayingindefinitely or hav i ng
(
}IIEMORANDUM
TO: Planning Commission
CITY OF
CHINHISSEN
&FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
Larry Brown, Staff Engineer
September 14, 19 88
Staff memo update to the JuIy 27, 1988 Site Plan Review for
Lot 3, Block 1, Seven Forty-one Crossing, SuperAmerica Site
Planning FiIe No. 88-10 Site Plan, SuperAmerica Corporation
f3_
690 COULTER DBIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
During the August 3, 1988 Planning Commission meeting, this item
was tabled due to several outlying engineering questions that
needed to be answered prior to approval. The following is in
response to those quest ion s.
As the Commission may recall, there was question during the
meeting as to whether the approved HSz siLe had confirinaLion as
to the construction of the ri.ght-in entrance from State llighway 7
to the site. Staff and the Commission felt that any of the Hsz
sites would not be adequately served if the right-in access was
not constructed. Since that time, staff has requesLed a letter
from MnDOT indicating that approval wiII be granted. Attached
you will find that MnDOT has given srritlen approval. The permits
requested will be granted as long as the current owner will
exchange access rights for the existing Eield driveway at the
northeast corner of the development. The applicant has notified
MnDOT and has stated that this is accepLable.
In addition, the Developerrs engineer was instructed to prepare a
traff i.c study to analyze the impact to State Highways 4I and 7
and to confirm thaE the proposed accesses would adequately sup-port the shopping center.
As sunrmarized in the traffic study, the Lraffic analysis was
based on a "worst case scenario" with the assumption that a fastfood restaurant would be located on-site. Al-though this assump-tion was made for the traffic study, a fast food restaurant isnot permitted in the BN District. The study also assumed thatthe "generated traffic" would be in addition to the existingtraffic.
The conclusions of the report state that the proposedcenter, gas station and anticipated future developmenthave an adverse affect on Trunk Highways 4I and 7.
An additional item of concern was the potential for thecatastrophic gasoline spill as it affects Lake Minnewashta. TheCommission was concerned that if a tanker truck were to spill,the storm sewer system would carry the gasoline to LakeMinneerashta. r have been in contact wiih trre watershed Districtto analyze and suggest measures that could be taken to handlesuch an event. The Watershed District has indicated that theponding site which services the HSZ development is construcLedunder rrhat is known as a pressure flow situation. This meansthat the inlet and outtet from the ponding site will be sub-merged. In the event that a catastrophic gasoline spill woulooccur, the gasoline would be contained within the ponding site aslong as the bottom of the pond maintained a ilept tr of 2r inches ofwater. Attachment #1 shows that the intake would keep the oilsaway from the outlet as long as the water l'ras not depieted. Inthe evenL of a rra jor catastrophic spilr the fire depirtment couldreact immediately by connecting up to an existing hlrdrant andpumping water into the ponding sile such that the oils are keptfloating to the top as an interim conditions unLil the dischargepipe could be blocked. The blocking of Lhe storm sewer pipe canbe done quickly and effectively.
The size of the pond was sized to hold a maximum capacity ofapproxirnately 462,5O0 gallons at any one Lime. the taniertrucks Lhat i{ill be servicing SuperAmerica each have four dif-ferent cornpartments, each compartment holding approximately 2,400gallons. Thus, the maximum spill that would be-inticipatei wouldbe 2,400 gallons at any one time. Staff and the Water;hedDistrict have reviewed the overall plan anct fino thaL the stormsewer system and retention basin provide adequaLe time to reactto such an emergency.
The applicant has also
address the concerns ofPlanning Department haslight ing plan to ensurewill not cause glare or
roadways .
submitted a revised 1ightj.ng plan toa recessed fixture into Lhe canopy. Therequested Engineering to review thethat the intensity of the light fixturesnuisance to adjacent property owners or
s hopp i ngwill not
The light plan shor^rs that the maximuln foot candle strength outside- of the property boundary would be approximately 0.07 footcandles outside of the ESz site. as a guiaeline, most of thesurrounding cities use the recommendation that lighting shallbe greater than 1.5 foot candles beyond the propeity line. i,iefind that this plan is acceptable.
not
Planning Commi s s ion
September 14, l-988
Page 2
Planning Commission
September 14, I9 88
Page 3
It is therefore recommended that the
the previous condiLions stated in my
Attachments
1. Pond deta i 1s .
plan be approved with
27, L988 staff report.site
J uIy
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{r#Minnesota
Department of Transportation
District 5
2O55 No. Lilac Drive
Golden Valley, Minnesota 55422
(612) 593- 853 7
-\ugust 3, 1988
Larry Broun. -Ass't. Cit)' Engineer
city of chanhasseo
690 Coulter S treet
chanhassen. llN 5 5317
Re: S.P. 1004 (I.H.7)/S.P. 1008 (T.H.41)
Proposed HSZ Development in Sl{ Quadran!
of T.H. 7 and 41 in Chanhassen
Dear Larr-Y,
lie have resolved the access quesli<rn for the above reterenced devel-
opmcnt. lln/DCI i-s currenLly processing a permit lor Lhe main access
point off ot I.H. 4l and Ehis permj.E could be issueri ilr ab()ut Luo to
three rseeks.
Ilr l e3ar.J Lo Llte pr:r)poseri Jcce5s ..r I I .rt I
ri,.lltL Lurrr rlI rt l,H. 7. -llle r.lesrgrr r)L
irJ rrl to Ltr,.] .rtt.tctre(l rl!;r1r1llli.
7. ue uill allow a orre-war"
proposed ,rccess sltould L'ott-
,l{.
LIle
.{ t'ermi t for chis entritrrce is ..lepelr(ient upult rt citattge rlr Lhe e\'is!ing
ilccess rio[lrol. lt is ..,ur understandirlg ihat Llte developer rrill exchatrge
access rights to I.H. .rI :rt. lhe \E cc!'Irer Q! his det elopuent in return
for the right turn cff oI 1.H. 7. ou[ DislricL liigtrt-of -tda]. Errgineer
Earl Hore, i.s currently processing Ehe lcgal ilork for this eschaflge. If
.v-ou need to knorr' the tiiui.ng of this. 5'ou c<.rultl corlLact llr. Houe aL
593-8510.
If you have 1ny questions in regard lo this uatLer. please coniact me.
S incerel! .
Evan R. Creen
Proj ec t l{anager
-{Ltachment:
ERG: pl
u/cc: JoAnn Olsc.n - ljit!' of Charih;rs.,en
AUG (l t 1988
An Equ.rl Opportunitg EmploAer
CIT-Y- OF CHAN|'ASSLN
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SUPERAMERICA.
Division of Ashlond Oil, lnc.
1240 West 98th Srreer
Bloomington, Minnesoto 5543I
6.t 2-887-6100
8/r7 /88
city of chanhassen
Planning Comnission
690 coulter Drive
chanhassen, MN
Re: SA 4366
Chanhassen, MN
In response to the staff letter of 8 Aug. 1988 to Randy
Pedersen, we are addressing the particular concern forgasoline spiI1s. To preface the subject it should be notedthat there are several governmental bodies, includ.ing butnot limited to, the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency,
Envirorunental Protection Agrency, Community Right To I(now andthe Minnesota State Fire Marshal, all overseei.ng thequestion of contamination. Our installations are designedto meet and in most cases exceed the requirements set forthby state and federal Iaws. A11 installations receive STI-P3cathodically protected tanks, epoxy coated galvanized
cathodically protected piping, overfill containment
manholes, pressure sensitive leak detectors for each product1ine, diaelectric unions on tanks and dispensers, emergencyshut-off or shear valves at each dispenser and manual
emergency shut-off ssritches at the master console in thestore. In conjunction !,rith this hardware, all employees aretrained in spill containment procedures as pointed out inthe attached actual SPCC Plan for our store in St. Paul, MN.
To the question of tanker deLiveries we must respond that wedo not know which hours of the day or night the city wouldprefer deliveries. Each has its advantaqes and
disadvantages and we can bracket the deliveries to any 8hour shift preferred. Outside bulk sales can be eliminatedat the city's request.
If there are any further questions pertaining to
SuperAmericars operation please call me at 887-6171 or we
can set up a meeting at your convenience.
Roman Mue 1Ier
EngineerRegiona I
4cm
#
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEI[
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: Aug. 3, 19gg
C.C. DATE: Aug. 22, 198g
CASE NO: 88-10 CUp88-L0 Site plan
Prepared by! Olsen,/v
Fz
()
JL(L
!.(o
trJFa
PROPOSALs
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:Partnership
1 for a Convenience Store
3r350 Square Foot
NE Corner of Hwy. 7 and 4I
Chanhassen Super America900 Second Street SouthMinneapolis, MN 55402
Conditional Use permit
with cas pumps
Site Plan Review for aConvenience Store
WATER AND SEhIER:
PEYSICAL CIIARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
N-
S-
E-
w-
BN, Neighborhood Business
1.04 acres
Hwy. 7 and Shoresood
BNi future HSZ Development
RSF; vacant
BN; vacant
Water and sewer is available to the site.
The site is a fairly level open area
Commerci al
2
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
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SuperAmerica ll$ry. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 20-692
BN District as
Section 20-695
District.
allows convenience stores without gas pumps in Ehe
a permitted use.
(5) allows a maximum Iots coverage of 65t in the BN
Section 20-694 allows convenience stores with gas pumps as a con-ditional use in the BN District.
Section 20-695foot rear yard
Section 20-695
maximum height
( 6-a) requires
setback and 15
(7-a) requiresof one story.
35 fooE front yard setback, a 30
foot side yard setbacks.
the principle structure to have a
Section 20-1178 requires that all trash disposal units be comple-
tely screened on all sides.
Section 20-1191 requires a 10 foot strip of land between
right-of-way and vehicular use areas including one tree
feet and a hedge wall or berm of at least 2 feet.
abuttingper 40
Section 20-L192 requires interior
r.rith one tree per 40 feet.
property lines to be landscaPed
seccion zo-l-2l-l^ requires interior landscaping for vehicular use
a reas .
Section 20-LL25
of gross floor
requ ]- res
area ior
1 parking space for each 200 square feet
shopping centsers.
Section 20-L302 permits a
24 square feet and 5 feet
1ot .
Asst. City Engineer
Building Department
ground low profile sign not
in height with a maximum of
to exceed
tlvo per
Section 2O-L255 allows motor ruel price signs to be affixed only
to the fuel pump and that they shall not exceed four (4) square
feet.
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Attachment #2
Attachment *3
B ACKGROU ND
The
was
subject site is an outlot of arecently approved for re zon i ng
larger piece of
from OI , Office
property whichInsti tutional
SuperAmerica Hiry. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 3
to BN, Neighborhood Business with the most southerly Portion of
the site being proposed as a shopping center and two outlots on
the northern portion of the site (Attachment f4). The subject
site is the outlot located in the most northeasterly corner of
the larger parcel. The whole site is proposed to be serviced by
a r ight- in,/r ight-out from Hwy. 7 from the north and by a full
intersection from H$ry. 41 on the east side of lhe property.
Access to the site is dependent upon access approval trom MnDOT.
The applicant is requesting site plan approval and a conditional
use permit for a convenience store with gas pumps. The site is
bordered on the north by Hr,ry . 7 and on the east by H!'ry. 41 and
will be serviced by an internal roadway system which will oe
developed as part of the HSz property's development. The subject
site is 1.04 acres and is zoned BN, Neighborhood BusinessDistrict.
The applicant, SuperAmerica, is proposing a 3,350 square foot
convenience store wiEh 6 gas pumps. The proposed site plan loca-
tes the convenience store on the south portion of the site with
the parking to the north and east of the building and the gas
pumps between the parking area anai Hlrry. 7. The subject site is
separated by adjacent neighborhoods by an outlot to the west and
future ret.ail center to the south.
SITE PLAN REVIEW AND CONDITIONAL USE PERI{IT ANALYSIS
Site Plan Review AnaIys is
Site Design
The proposed bulding will be made of a Ean brick and bronze metal
roof with a red and while striped facia. The building and main
entrance will face Hvry. 7 with a service entrance on Lhe west
side of the building and an additional customer entrance on Lhe
east side. The site also contains gas pumps with a canopy. The
canopy will match the facia on the building and wilL cover three
islands with six gas pumps. The islands will accommodate tlvo
cars on either side for a total of twelve cars at a time.
The site is maintaining the required front yard setbacks of 35
feet from Hwy.7 and 4I and must maintain a 15 foot side yard
setback from the westerly and southerly property boundaries'
current site plan shows a 10 toot setback from the south lot
Iine. The applicant has staEed that the site plan can be
adjusted to provide the required 15 foot side yard setback. A
revised site plan with the increased setsback must be provided
prior to City Council approval .
Circulation
The
Traffic will be able to enter the site either from the $rest via a
70 foot wide entrance or from the south via an entrance which
SuperAmerica Hhry. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 4
Landscaping
The site is providing landscaping around the cuilding andperimeter of the site. Staff is recommending ihat evergreens beincluded where the four crab trees are proposed on the west sideof the building to further screen the service area. AlthoughIandscaping is not required on the rear of the buildin!;, someform of landscaping ( trees or shrubs) would break up the expanseof the building and is recommended by staff. The applicant isalso required to provide a 2 foot hedge, wa11 or berm between astreet and vehicular use area. The applicant has not providedthis on the north or east side of the property. Staff is recom-mending that. the applicant provide an amended landscaping planwhich includes staffts recommendations and meets the requirementsof the ordinance. Shou1d islands be included in the 70 foot wideentrance, landscaping should be provided for those aIso. Thetrash enclosures must be completely screened on aIl sides.
Signage
with a maximum
of 5 feet. The
which appears to5 feetprovided. The
The ordinance permits a ground low profile signsign_area of 24 square feet and a maximum heigntapplicant is proposing a ground low profile signbe larger than 24 sguare feet and is higher thin(Attachment *5). An amended sign design must be
connects to the HSZ shopping center parking 1ot. Either entrancewill accommodate traffic entering the site to park and shop oruse the gas pumps. Staff is concerned with the 70 foot wideentrance. A 70 foot r.ride entrance without an island or direc-tional lanes will result in confused traffic movements- TheAssistant City Engineer will address reducing the width of theentrance and aLternative designs in his memo.
MnDOT has recently notified staff that the right in only from TH7 may not be permitted. IrlnDOT is in the process of reviewing theproposed access. The applicant has stated that the site plan willwork without the access from Hwy. 7 and that the site plai reviewshould continue. If the access from Hwy. 7 is removed, the sub-ject site would still maintain a second access wes! of the gaspumps by maintaining connection by an internal road as sho$r; tothe HSZ parking lot (Attachment #5). The whole site would dependon access to Hwy. 41.
If MnDOTT s final decision results in the need for any changes tothe site plan, the appl,icant would have Co go through the ;iteplan review process again. Staff is recommending that the appli-cant provide a revised site plan shorring how the site will bedesigned without access from Hwy. 7. A building permit will notbe issued to the applicant until the necessary iccess permits from
MnDOT are received and the access(es) to the site are insEal1ed.
SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 5
ordinance also restricts gas price signs to be located on the gas
pumps or on t.he ground low profile sign. Any signage on the gas
canopy would not be permitted. The building is permitted onewall business sign per street frontage and no individual sign
shal1 exceed 24 square feet. The applicant should provide
details on the proposed walI signs.
Parking and Rooftop Equ ipment
The applicant is providing the required number of parking
including one handicap space. AII rooftop equipment musttotally screened from view from any direction.
site plan
line prior
spaces
be
with a 15 foot
to City Counc i 1
Miscellaneous
Since the access issue impacts the whole HSZ site, a building per-
mit will not be permitted for SuperAmerica until the final plat
and <ievelopment contract for HSZ has been recorded with Carver
County.
RECOMME ND AT I ON
Planning stsaff recommends the Planning Commission adopt t.hefollowing motion:
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Site Plan Review
il 88-10 dated July 11, 1988, with the following conditions:
I
2
3
4
The site plan sha11 meet
use permit approval.
the conditions of the condiEional
The applicant shalI provide a revised
side yard setback from the south lot
approval .
The applicant sha1l provide a revised
addressing staffr s conments .
landscaping plan
The applicant shall provide plans for the ground 1ow profile
and wa1l signs which meet the requirements of the ordinance.
No signage wilI be permitted on the gas canopy.
screened from view from anyA1l rooftop equipment must be
direction.
7. The trash enclosure be totally screened.
all conditi.ons oE the Public Safety
5
6
8
mus t
meet
9
The applicant shallDirector.
The applicant shaLl
has approved access
not receive
permits for
a bui lding
Hwy. 7 and
permit until
Hwy. 4I, the
MnDOT
acce s s
points have been instsalled and the final plat and developmentcontract for HSZ had been recorded with Carver County.
10. The applicant shall provide an amended site plan showing howthe site will be designed without access from H$ry. 7. If thesite plan result.s in changes in the current site plan theapplicant sha11 again go through the site plan process.
11. The site plan shall be revised to show proper channelization
and signage to prevent a right-hand turning movemenE from thewesterly exit.
12. The revised plan shall be reviewed and approveal by t.he
Minnesota Department of Transportation prior to final siteplan review and comply with their conditions.
13. Storm sewer calculations shall be submitted to
Engineer for approval prior to final site plan
the City
review.
14. An erosion control plan shall be submit.ted to
Engineer for approval prior to f1nal site plan
the Ci ty
review.
15. The westerly proposed driveway sha11 oe reduced to a maximum'rridth of 32 feet.
16 The applicant sha1l provide the City r"rith a copy
cuted roadlray easement for the portion of Lot 2,
which serves the westerly access for the subject
of the exe-Block 1
parcel.
17. Utility service for this propertysite improvements.
is contingent upon lhe HSZ
CondiEional Use Permit Analysis
the Zoning Ordinance requires conditional use permiLs for a con-
venience store with gas pumps in the BN District. Section 20-232 of.the Zoning Ordinance establishes standards that a cooditional usepermit must meet for it to be approved by the city as folLows:
1. will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health,safety, comfort, convenience or general welfare of t.he neigh-
borhood or the city.
2. Will be consistent with the objectives of the cityts compre-hensive plan and this chapter.
Will be designed, constructed, operated, and maintained so tobe compatible in appearance with the existing or intendedcharacter of the general vicinity and will not change theessential character of that area.
Will not be hazardous or disturbing to
neighboring uses.
3
4 existing or planned
Supertunerrca Hwy. 7 and 4I
August 3, 1988
Page 6
5
6
7
8
WiIl be served adequately by essential public facilities andservices, including streets, police and fire protection,drainage structures, refuse disposal , water and sewer systemsand schools; or will be served a,f,equately by such facilLtiesand services provided by the persons or agencies responsiblefor the establishment of the proposed use.
Will not creat.e excessive requirements for public faciLities
and. services and will not be detrimental to the economicwelfare of the community.
Will not involve uses, activities, processes, materials,equipment and conditions of operation that will be detrimen-tal to any persons, property or the general welfare becauseof excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes,gIare, odors, rodents, or trash.
!fi1I have vehicular approaches to thecreate traffic congestion or interferesurrounding public thoroughfares.
property which do not.with traffic or
9 WiII not result in the destrucLion,access, natural, scenic or historic
s ignificance.
Wi 1I meet s tandarCsin this article.
loss or damage of solarfeatures of major
surrounding property values.
prescribed for certain uses as provided
i0.
11.
L2.
WilI be aesthetical-Iy compatible with the area.
WilI not depreciate
The subject site has residences located tso the west and south andany iinpacts related to a convenience store with gas pumps need tobe minimized. The major issues of concern to the nelghborhood isnoise, lights, hours of operation and traffic. Of tha generalconditional use standards listed in the ordinance, the iollowingare the most pertinent to the proposal:
1. Will not be detrimental to or endanger the publicsafety, comfort, convenience or general welfare ofborhood or the ci ty.
heal th ,the neigh-
3
* The site plan is designed to provide safe access, adequatescreening and compatible building design so t.hat- it willnot endanger the public health, safety, etc. of the neigh-borhood or city.
Will be designed, constructed, operate.i, and maintained so tobe compatible in appearance rith the existing or intendedcharacter of the generaf vicinity and lei1I not change the
SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 7
SuperAmerica Hwy. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page I
4
essential character of that area.
7
Wi 11 not be hazardous
neighboring uses.
or disturbing to existing or planned
The conditional use permit process permits condicions to
be adiled to ensure the site will not be disturbing to
neighboring uses. The lights on the site will be downcastto prevent light from being directed off site. The
canopy lights are also downcast but to further reduce
impact to the neighbors, staff is recomrnending that fhe
lights be receded into the gas pump canopy. Traffic to
the site ',ri11 not be directed through the neighborhood to
cause a traffic hazard and the design of the whole siLewith landscaping and berms should minimize any noise.
WiII not involve uses, activities, processes, materials,
equipment and conditions of operation that will be detrimen-tal to any persons, property or the general welfare because
of excessive production of traffj.c, noise, smoke, fumes,glare, odors, rodents, or lrash.
* The gas pumps will not cause excessive noise, traffic,
fumes, etc. SuperAmerica is typically open 24 hours aday. The applicant will be prepared to address concerns
about noise or activities related to the gas pumps and
store. In discussion with the applicant, it appears thatthe number of users between midnight and 6 a.m. are sma1I
and will not cause excessive noise or activity. The
Commission and Council may rrant to review the site in 6
months to one year after it is open to determine if havingit open 24 hours is detrimental to the neighboring uses.
Will have vehicular approaches to the property which do notcreate traffic congestion or interfere with traffic or
surrounding public thoroughfares.
The internal roadway and access from Hwy. 7 and 4I was
designed to remove traffic from the neighborhood and toprovide safe access to Ehe site.
10. !{il1 be aesthetically compatible with the area -
be aesthetically com-The building and landscaping willpatible r{i th the area.
8
Section 20-388 of the ordinance also provides specificfor a convenience store with gas pumps which will also
conditions
minimi ze
The building will be constructed of a tan brick wa11 and
bronze metal roof with a maximum height of one story. The
design and height of the building will maintain t.hegeneral character of the area.
SuperAmerj.ca Hwy. 7 and 4I
August 3, 1988
Page 9
impac t
1. No
2. No
4 Gas pump stackingshall not i ntrude
area deemed to beinto any requ i red
appropriate by the city
setback area.
to the neighborhood uses as follows:
unlicensed or inoperable vehicles sha11 be stored on premises.
repair, assembly or disassembly of vehieles.
3 No public address systen shall be audible from any residential
parcel .
5 No sales, storage or
such as motorcycles,
display of used automobiles or other vehictes
snowmobiles or aIl-terrain vehicles.
SurL'na r y
The proposed improvements to the site (building, lighting,
landscaping, gas pumps) are designed to minimize impacts to neigh-boring uses and to be compatible with surrounding uses. The con-ditional use permit process allows the city to establish
conditions felt necessary to address any concerns of surroundingproperties .
RECOMME NDATI ON
Planning staff recorunends the Planning Commission adopt Lhefollowing motion:
"The Planning Commission recommenCs approval of
Permit *88-10 as shown on the site plan stamped
1988" with the following conditions:
Conditional Use
"Received July 11,
1. No unlicensed or inoperable vehicles shal1 be stored on premi-
ses.
No repair, assembly or disassembly of vehicles is permitted
premi ses .
on2
3. No public address system sha11 be audible from any residential
parcel .
4. Gas pump stacking area deemed to be appropriate by the city
shall not intrude into any required setback area.
No sales, storage or display of used automobiles or other
vehicles such as motorcycles, snowmobiles or all-terrain
vehicles is permi tted.
6. The lights on
7. The applicant
D i rector .
the gas canopy
shalI meet all
shall be receded into the canopy.
conditions of the Public Safety
SuperAmerica Hr.iry. 7 and 41
August 3, 1988
Page 10
8. The applicant sha11 comply rrith all condit.ions of the siteplan approval-.
ATTACHMENTS
Excerpts from City Code.
Memo from Asst. City Engineer dated July 28, 1988.
Memo from Building Department dated July 25, 1988.Detailed site plan of whole IISZ site.
Showing access to SuperAmerica site without access from Hwy. 7
Proposed s ignage.
Reduced copies of trash enclosure and building details.Application.Site plan dared JuIy 11, 1988.
Landscaping plan dared July 1I, 1988.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
(
(
ZONING $ 20-692
(5) The setbacks are as follows:
a. For front yards, twenty-frve (2b) feet.b. For rear yards, twenty_five (28) feet.c. For side yards, ten (10) feet.
(6) The maximum height is as follows:
a. For the principal structwe, three (B) stories/forty (40) ieet.b. For accessory structures, one (1) story/fifteen (1i) teet.(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 8(b-&S), 12-1s-86)
Secs. 2M76-20,690. Reserved.
ARTICLE XVI.'BN- NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS DISTRIC.T
Sec. 2G691. Intcnt.
The intent ofthe "BN" District is to provide for limited row intensity neighborhood retailand service establishments to meet daily needs of residents.
(Ord. No. 80, Arr. V, $ t0(5-10-t), 12-15_86)
Sec. XH92. Permittcd uses.
Itre following uses are permitted in a ,.BN,, District:
(l) Convenience stores without gas pumps.
(2) Neighborhood oriented retail shops.
(3) Self-service laundries.
(4) Dry cleaning and laund4r pick-up stations.
(5) Day care ccnter.
(6) Personal service establishments.
(7) hofessionalolfices.
(8) Small appliance and shoe repair shops.
(9) Health services.
(10) Veterina4rclinics.
(11) Utility services.
(12) Shopping ce.ter.
(13) Privatc clubs and lodges.
(14) Community center.
(Oril. No. 80, Art. V, $ r0(S-10-2), 12.18A6)
t2t5
$ 20-693 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
Sec. 2G693. Permitted accessory uses.
The following are permitted accessory uses in a ,.BN,, District
(1) Parking lots.
(2) Car wash (when accessory to automotive service station).
(3) Sierrs.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ r0(5-r0-3), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G694. Conditional uses.
the following are conditional uses in a .,BN,, District:
(l) Convenience stare with gas pumps.
(2) Automotive seryice stations.
(3) Drive-in banks including automated kiosks.
(4) Temporary outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
(5) Standardrestaurants.
(6) Bed and breaksfast establishments.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 1O(S-104), 12.15-86)
Statc law reference-Conditional uses, M.S. $ 462.3b9S.
Sec. 2G695. Lot requirements and setbacks.
The following minimum requirements shalr be observed in a ..BN,, District subject toadditional requirements, exceptions and modifications set forth in this chapt€r:
(l) lhe minimum district area is three (3) acres- This paragraph may be waived in thecase of expansion to an existing district.
(2) The minimum lot area is fifteen thousand (15,000) square feet.
(3) The minimum lot frontage is seventy_live (?5) feet, except that lots fronting on acul.de-sac shall have a minimum frontage of sixty (60) feet in all districts.
(4) The minimum lot depth is one hundred fifty 050) feet.
(5) The maximum rot coverage including all structures and paved surfaces is sixty-five(65) percent.
(6) off-street parking areas shall compry with a[ yard requirements of this section,except that no rear vard parking setback shall be required for rots airectly abuttingrairroad trackage; and, no side yard shall be required when adjoining "o--u."i.'tuses establishjoint off-street parking facilities, as provided in sectiou 2i-tt22, exceptthat no parking areas shall be permitted in any required side street
"ia"
y"ra- ti"minimum rear yard shall be frfty (50) feet for lots directly abutting any residentialdistrict. Side streets side yards shall be a minimum of twenty-Frve (25) feet.
Other setbacks are as follows:
a. For front yards, thirty-five (35) feet.
C.
(
L276
G
C
(
ZONING
b. For rear yards, thirty (gO) feet.c. For side yar&, fifteen (1S) feet.
(7) The maximum height is as follows:
a. For the principal structure, one (1) story.b. For accessory structures, one (l) story.(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ rO(S-10-S), 12-15-86)
Secs. 2G696-2G.?10. Reserved.
ARTICLE XVII. "BH'HIGHWAY AND BUSINESS SERVICES DISTRIC:T
Sec. 2G711. Intent.
5 20-7 72
The intent ofthe "BH" District is to provide for highway oriented commerciar develop-ment restricted to a low building profile.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 11(S-11-1), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G.?12. Permitted uses.
The following uses are permitted in a .,BH,, District:
(1) Financial institutions.
(2) Fast food restaurant_
(3) Automotive service stations.
(4) Standardrestaurants.
(5) Motels and hotels.
(6) Offices.
(7) Retail shops.
(8) Miniature golf.
(9) State-licensed day care center.
(10) car. wash.
(11) Convenience store with or without gas pumps.
(12) Personal service establishment-
(13) Liquor stores.
(14) Health services.
(15) Utility services.
(16) Shopping center.
12t7
Mortuaries-One (1) space for every three (B) seats.
$ 20-1r25
(12)
(r3)Motel or hotel-One (1) parking space for each rental room or suite, plus one (1) spacefor every two (2) employees.
(
(14) Office buildings (administrative, business or professional)_Three (B) parking spacesfor each one thousand (1,000) squar.e feet of floor area.
(15) Public service buirdings, incruding municipal administration buildings, communitycenter, public library, museum. art galleries, and post ofiice_One (1) parking spa;for each frve hunriied (b00) square feet of floor area in the principal structurl, ptusone (1) parking space for each four (4) rests within public assembly or meeting rooms.
(16) Recreational facilities, including golf course, country club, swimming club, racquetclub, public swimming pool_TVenty (20) spaces, plus one (l) space for each fivehundred (b00) square feet offloor area in the principal structure or tno (2) spaces percourt.
(17) Research, experimental or testing stations-one G) parking space for each frve hun-dred (500) square feet of gross floor area within the building, whichever is greater.
(18) Restaurant, cafe, nightclub, tavern or bar:
a- Fast food-One (l) space per sixty (60) square feet of gross floor area.b. Restaurant:
1. Without full liquor license_One 0) space per sixty (60) square feet of grossfloor area or one G) space per two and one-half (2%) seats whichev-er isgreater.
2. With full liquor license_One (l) space per fifty (50) square feet of gross floorarea or one (l) space per two (2) seats whichever is greater.
(19) Retail stores and s€rvice establishments_One G) space for each two hundred (200)
square feet of gross floor area.
(20) School, elementary (public, private or parochial)_One 0) parking space for eachclassroom or office room, plus one (1) space for each one hundred fifty (1S0) squarefeet of eating area including aisles, in any auditorium or gymnasium or cafetcriaintended to be used as an auditorium-
(21) school, iunior and senior high schools and coreges (pubric, private or parochial-Four.(4) parking spaces for each classroom or olfice room plus one (1) space for each onehundred frfty (1s0) square feet of seating area including aisres, in any auditoriurn orgrmnasium or cafeteria intended to be used as an auditorium.
(22) shopping center-on-site automobile parking shalr be provided in a ratio of not ressthan one (1) parking space-for each two hundred (200) square feet of gross floor area;separate on-site space shall be provided for loading and unloading.
(23) Storage, wholesale, or warehouse establishments_One (1) space for each one thou.sand (1,000) square feet of gross floor area up to ten thousand (10,000) square feet andone (l) additional space for each additional two thousand (2,000) square feet plus one
t249
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ZONING
X
$ 20-1179 CHANHASSEN CITy CODE
(5) The removal of diseased and damaged trees is permissible.
(d) Tree removal not permitted under subdivision, planned unit deveropment or site planreview shall not be allowed without the approval of a tree removal plan by the city counc,.Ttee removal plans shall include the content requirements as dictated in s€ction 20-ru? andidentify reasons for tree removal. The plan shall be submitted three (B) weeks in advance ofthe city council at which it is to be considered.
(e) This section does not apply to singre-fam y and two-fam y lots of record.(Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, $ Z, 12-15€6)
Secs. 2Gl 180-20.1190. Resened.
DWISION 2. PEBIMETER LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 2&1191. Generally.
(a) where parking areas are not entirely screened visually by an intervening building orstructure from any abutting right-of-way, there shalr be provided landscaping b-etw"eo
"ir"harea and such right-of-way as follows:
(1) A strip of land at reast teu (10) feet in depth located between the abutting rightof-way and the vehicurar use area which shall be randscaped to incrude uo ur"*g" orone (1) tree for each forty (40) linear feet or fraction thereof. Such trees shall belocat€d between the abutting right_of-way and the vehicular use area.
(2) In addition, a hedge, wall, berm, or other opaque durable landscape barrier of at least
two (2) feet in height shal be praced along the entire length ofthe vehicurar use area.If such opaque durabre barrier is of nonriving materiar, a shrub or vine shall beplanted along the street side ofsaid barrier and be planted in such a manner to breakup the expanse of the wall. A two-foot berm may be used; however, additional
landscaping at least one G) foot in height at time of planting shalr be instaled. Theremainder of the required landscape areas shall be landscaped with grass, ground
cover, or other landscape treatment.
(b) This division applies to perimeter landscaping.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, $ 2(8-2-1), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2Gll92. Required landscaping aqiacent to int€rior property lines.
(a) where parking areas abut property zoned or, in fact, used primarily for residential orinstitutional purposes, that portion of such area not entirely screened visuarly by an interven_
ing structure or existing conforming buffer from an abutting property, there shalr be provid.ed
a landscaped buffer which shourd be maintained and repraced as needed- Such landscaped
bulfer shall consist of plant matcrial, wall, or other durable barrier at least six (6) feet in
height measured from the median elevation of the parking area closest to the common lot line,
and be located between the common lot line and the off-street parking areas or other vehicurar
use area exposed to the abutting property. Fences shall be constructed according to the
standards in section 20-1018.
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ZONING $ 20-1255
Sec. 2G1255. Signs allowed without permit.
The following signs are allowed without a permit
(1) Campaign signs, not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet in area. The sigtr must
contain the name of the person responsible for such sign, and that person shall be
responsible for its removal. Such signs shall remain for no longer than seventy-five
(75) days in any calendar year. The city shall have the right to remove and destroy
sig'ns not conforming to this paragraph.
(2) Directional signs.
a. On-premises signs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The number of
signs shall not exceed four (4) unless approved by the city council.
b. Off-premises signs shall be allowed only in situations where access is confusing
and traffic safety could be jeopardized or traIfic could be inappropriately routed
through residential streets. The size of the sign shall be approved by the city
council and shall contain no advertising.
(3) Signs or displays which contain or depict a message p€rtaining to a religious, nation-
al, state or local holiday and no other matter and which are displayed for a period not
to exceed seventy-five (75) days in any calendar year.
(
(4)
(5)
(6)
Informational signs not exceeding sixteen (16) square feet.
Integral signs.
Motor fuel price signs are permitted on the premises of any automobile service
station only ifsuch signs are alfixed to the fuel pumps or are made an integral part of
a ground low profile or pylon business sign otherwise permitted in ttrat zoning
district. Motor fuel price signs alfixed to a fuel pump shall not exceed four (4) square
feet in sign display area. When such signs are made an integral part ofa freestanding
business sign, the sigrr display area devoted to the price component shall not exceed
thirty (30) percent of the total sign display area of the sign.
Nameplate signs not exceeding two (2) square feet.
Nonilluminated construction signs confrned to the site of the construction, alteration
or repair. Such a sign must be removed within one (l) year of the date of issuance of
the first building permit on the site and may be extended on an annual basis. one (1)
sigrr shall be permitted for each street the project abuts. commercial and industrial
signs may not exceed lifty (50) square feet in sign area, and residential construction
signs may not exceed twenty-four (24) squar.e feet in sigl area.
O.S.H.A. signs.
Signs ofa public, noncommercial nature erected by a governmental entity or agency
including safety sigrs, directional signs to public facilities, trespassing signs, traffrc
signs, sigrrs indicating scenic or historical points of int€rest, memorial plaques and
the like.
(7)
(8)
(e)
(10)
1261
C
s 20.1301 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
collector street as desigrated as such in this chapter. such sign shall be located so asnot to con{lict with tra{frc visib,ity or street -uir,t"n*"" operations, and sha, besecurely anchored to the ground.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ b, 12-15_86)
Sec. 2G1302. Neighborhood business and institutional districts.
The following signs shall be allowed by permit in any oI or B-1 District:
(1) Ground low profrle business signs. One (1) ground low profile business or institu-tional sigrr not exceeding twenty-four (24) sfuare feet of sign display area shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsign shall be located at least ten (10) feet from any property line and shall not exceedfrve (5) feet in height.
(2) Walr business sigrr. one (1) wa, business sign shalr be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The total of all wall mounted signdisplay area sharl not exceed ten (10) pe.certlf the total area of each buding wa,upon which the sigrs are mounted, but no individual business sigal shali e;cJtwenty-four (24) square feet in sign display area. A wall business sign shaU not bemounted upon the wall of any building which faces any adjoining resiclential districtwithout an intervening public street.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ 7, t2-l5-86)
Sec. 2G1303. Highway and general business districts.
The following sigrrs shall be allowed by permit in any BH, BG, or BF District:
(1) Ground low profrle business signs. One (1) ground low profile business sigrr shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsigns shall not exceed eighty (g0) square feet in sign display area nor be greater thaneight (8) feet in height. Such signs shall be located at least ten <fOl fe"t f.o- u.ryproperty line. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding businesssigns, whether such signs are pylon or ground low prohle signs.
(2) Pylon business sign. One (l) pylon business sign, not exceeding sixty-four (64) squarefeet in sign dispray area, shal be permitted per lot. A pylon business "ig, gr"ut".than sixty-four (64) square feet, but equal to or less than eighty (g0) square feet, maybe permitted after securing a conditional use permit. such signs
"hutt bu to"ri"a utleast ten (10) feet from any property line, and shall not exceed twenty (20) feet inheight. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding business signs,whether such signs ar.e pylon or ground low profile sig:s.
(3) Wall business signs. one (1) walr business sign shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The total of all wall mounted signdisplay area shall not exceed fifteen (15) percent ofthe total area ofthe building wallupon which the signs are mounted. No individual business sigrr shall exceed. eighty(80) square feet in sign display area. A wall business sign may be mounted upon anywall of a principal building.e
1268
(
(
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORAI\DUM
TO: Planning Commi ss ion
FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer
DATE: July 27, 1988
SUBJ: Preliminary Site plan Review for Lot 3,
Seven Forty-One Crossing
Planning FiIe No. 88-10, SuperAmerica
Block 1 of
This site is located onof State Highway 4I and
approved the final platof an open field with aproperty boundary.
the southeast corner of the intersectionTrunk Highvray 7. The City Councilon July 25, 1988. The site is comprisedsmall grove of trees along the easterly
Sanitar y Seere r
Municipal sanitary sewer service is to be extended to the south-west corner of this lot via the fiSZ site p1an. The installationof the actual sanitary sewer service sha11 remain the respon-sibility of the applicant. It is recommended that 6-inchdianeter sewer creanouts sharr be instalred at 100-foot intervalson all sanitary sewer services in excess of 200 feet in length.
Water Service
SimilarIy, a 6-inch diameter watermainthe southerly property boundary for theproject. The construction of the waterresponsibility of the applicant.
shall be
subj ec t
service
extended a]-ong
lot via the HSzwill remain the
Access
The construction of the right turn rane/exit ramp from eastboundIlighway 7 as part of the HSZ site requires a per;it from theMinnesota Department of Transportati6n tunrzooil. Th; pi"p"""aentrance to the SuperAmerica site has a potential to aito* aright-hand turning movement into oncomin! traffic. This willhave to be addressed through proper chanielization and signageand.written approval from MnlDOT prior to the final site lIanreview.
fr2-
PIann ing
J uly 21 ,
Page 2
Commi ss ion
1988
The plan proposes an entrance width of 70 feet. General designpractice is to avoid large unchannelized inLersections that a1lowthe driver to enter and leave at random. It is recommended thatthe driveway width be reduced to a maximum width of 32 feet.
The applicant should provide the City with a copy
easement located immediately west of the subjectthe proposed westerly en trance.
G rad inq
of
lot
the land
which serves
The proposed plan proposes no major changes to the grading planwhich was approved through the ltSZ sile. The construction of thepond on the easterly side of Lhe lot will be constructed as partof the Seven Forty-One p1at. We find thaL this plan is accep-table .
Drainaqe and Erosion Cont ro1
The storm water runoff has been proposed to connect to the stormsewer system of the Seven Forty-One plat. Storm sewer calcula-tions which verify that adequate capaciLy exists to handle theincreased runoff from Lot 3 hrill be required as part of the finalsite plan review.
The plan does not address erosion control. A reviseal plan which
shows the City's standard details and location of the erosioncontrol will be required as part of the final siLe plan review.
It is therefore recommendedthe following cond it ions:
that the siLe plan be approved upon
I The sile plan shall be
and signage to prevent
westerly exit.
revised to show proper channelizationa right-hand turning movement from the
2
3
4
5
The revised plan shall be reviewed and approved
Minnesota Department of Transportation prior toplan review and comply with their conditions.
by thefinal site
Storm sewer calculations shalI be submitted to
Engineer for approval prior to final site plan
the City
review.
An erosion control plan shall be submitted to the CityEngineer for approval prior to final site plan review.
The vresterly proposed driveway sha11 be reduced to a maximumwidth of 32 feet.
Planning CommissionJuly 27, 1988
Page 3
6. The applicant shall provide Lhe City with a copy of the exe-cuted roadway easement for the portion of Lot 2, Block Iwhich serves the westerly access for the subject parcel.
7. Utility service for this property is contingen! upon the HSZsite improvements.
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937- 1900
TO:
FROM:
DATE:
SUBJ:
MEMORANDUM
Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant City planner
Steve A. Kirchman, Building rnspecror [-Cf f ,
JuIy 25, 1988
Planning Case 88-10 CUP and 88-10 Site plan Review,
SuperAmer i ca
1
2
3
w3
One handicap parking space is required.
One hour wa11 required if less than 20 feet to lot line.
Protected openings required if less than 10 feet to lot 1ine.
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APPLICANT:aulho"SSc, y
ADDREss fu) 4.r!. 5tr"s'
537o2
code
TELEPHONE (Daytime )3/7-
REQT'EST:
zoning District Change
zoning Appea1
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Amenalment
Land Use Plan Amendment
Conditional Use Permit
Site Plan Review
PROJEC? NAME (tca-
) TELEPHONE Saz-*-zip code
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch Plan
_ Preliminary plan
Fina1 Plan
Subdivi s ion
_ Platting
Metes and Bounds
Street/Easement Vacation
t<rnr.- sor"-
5/"-'-
AD DRES S
PRESEN? I,AND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
t.1 . .
PRESENT ZONING 4N
REQUESTED ZONING t,\i-
USES PROPOSED 4 S,r-L- 7az
SIZE OF PROPERTY /. o*Aarcs
LOCATION 7+,t/orta
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST AL-oqr -fu Corsrt<t rzl^--'
IAGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary)
//*'
4s nd'.-*,ul- o'--
I,AND DEVELOPI{ENT APPLICATION
CITY OE CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
wetlands permit .
xx
city
Land
Page
FTLING rNS ?R UCT I
FTLTNG CERT IF TCA TION :
of Chanhassen
Developmen t, Application
2
This application must be completed in full and be typer.rritten orctearry prinred and musr b" ;";;;;u;i.i"oy aLI informarion and.plans required by appricauie-;;;;";;iil.nce provisions. Beforei:'i:?"Hi;.'ffl:t:::l?n._vou.shoir;-;;;;.. wirh the ciry pranner
"ppii;;;i;^';" ";;";T;;ii:.:i|i:"'ce and Procedurar requl.rements
Signed By
Signed By c
Date Application
Application Fee
City Receipt No.
21,/
App t ICAN E
e
Recei ved
Date 7
Date 1,:' 7
certifies
a1I
s
The undersiined reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is famiriai witrr irre-ir;:";;;.i"..quirements ofapplicable City Ordinances.
Gr
Thc u;:de;signed hereby certifies ihat ihe appiicanL iras been:::::liff: ro make tnis appiic"ri"i-i"r"rhe property herein,
fi9 s
e,klts,
Paid
Y
Z{co51'&
cons idered
Appeals at by the
thei r Planning Commission,/
This Application will beBoard of Adjustments andmeeti.ng.
..:-
P# IB+
CITY OF
EHf,NHISSEnI
STqFF REPORT
Fz
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ko
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PROPOSAL:
LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
SW Corner of Hwy. 7 and 4I
lw
Sign Variance Request toGround Low profile SignBusiness District
Permit ain the BN,
45 Square poot
Neighborhood
AatDn Dy (,lv Adnh6t=lcr
i1.i,!!ri-
nr:;(l:d--_.--a,*3./tt/2L-
Drt! sJ: iri.:, rir -, 'nl ::'':i
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSTTY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAf, CHARAC.:
BN, Neighborhood Business
1.04 acres
Ewy. 7 and Shorewood
BNi future HSZ Development
RSF, vacant
BNi vacant
N-
s-
E-
w-
P.C. DATE: Sept. 21, I98g
C.C. DATE: Ocr. 10, 19gg
CASE NO: 88-11 Sign
Prepared by: OLsen,/v
-J/t/-et-Datt ir:-: i i' iln'ri
SI:"li::",: super America partnershin
-
yuu seconcl Street SouthMinneapolis, MN 55402
2000 f,AND USE pLAN: Commercial
Water and sewer is available to the site.
The site is a fairly level open area
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SuperAmerica Hhry. 7/41 Siqn
September 21, 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
Section 20-L302 permits a ground low profile business or institu-
tional sign not to exceed 24 square feet per street frontage vrith
a maximum of two signs per lot for the Neighborhood Business
District. Such signs shalI be located at least I0 feet from anyproperty line and shaIl not exceed 5 feet in height (Attachment
#1) .
Section 20-L255 permits motor fuel price signs only if such signs
are affixed to the fuel pumps or a main integral part of the
ground low profile or pylon business sign otherwise permitted in
the zoning distirct. Motor fuel price signs affixeil to the fuel
pump shall not exceed four (4) square feet in sign display area.
when such signs are made an integral part of a freestanding sign,
they shall not exceed 308 of the total sign display area
( Attachment *2 ) .
ANALYS I S
The subject site is located on the southwest corner of Highway 7
and 41. The site is proposed to be developed by SuperAmerica as
a convenience store with gas pumps. The site is zoned BN'
Neighborhood Business District and has two street frontages. The
signage of the site is limited to ti,ro 24 square foot ground low
profile signs and wa1l signs. The applicant is also permitted
motor fuel price signs affixed to the fuel pumps (maximum 4
square feet). The applicant is proposing to combine the two per-
mitted 24 square foot ground low profile signs into one 45 square
foot ground 1ow profile sign (Attachment #3). The applicant has
stated that a 24 square foot sign is not large enough to conEain
the SuperAmerica name, motor fuel price signs and be easily seen
by traf f ic on Hr"ry. 7 .
The City Code permits the City Council to grant a variance upon
the recommendation of Ehe Planning Commission where strict
compliance of the ordinance would cause a hardship and the
variance would be in keeping with the intent of the district and
ordinance. The site is located on the corner of Hwy. 41 and 7
and the zoning of the site does not permit pylon signs. Although
the site is located adjacent to two highways, the intent of the
zoning district is to provide limited 1ow intensity neighborhood
retail. The type and size of signs permitted in the BN District
were developed Lo support neighborhood retail while not impacting
surrounding neighborhood uses. As the ordinance is currently
written, the applicant is permitted signage for the proposed use
and the existing features of the site do not create a hardship
for which to grant the variance.
If the Planning Commission and City Council feel a larger sign
should be permitted within the BN District then a zoning ordi-
nance amendment would be more appropriate than granting a
SuperAmerica Hwy. 7/41 Si,gn
September 21, 1988
Page 3
Planning staff recorunends thefollowing motion:Planning Commission adopt the
variance where it is difficult to prove hardship. The idea ofcombining ground low profile signs which are peimitted on a sitewoul-d be an appropriate amendment in that it ieduces the numberof signs on a site and within the City. This option would alsopermit an applicant the choice between two smaller signs or onelarger sign (maximum 48 square feet - 24 square feet limes 2).
RECOMMENDATI ON
"The Planning Commission recommends denial of the Sign VarianceRequest #88-12 and recommends that staff proceed with a zoningordinance amendment to the BN District sign Regulations to a1Iowtwo 2! sguare foot ground low profile signs to-be combined intoone 48 square foot ground Iow profile sign if the site is per-mitted two ground 1ow profile signs.,,
NOTE: Should the planning Commission grant the variance, thereason (hardship) for approval should be stated. A1so, itappears the proposed fuel prices exceed 309 of the sign area. Anamended sign detail should be provided $rith the motor fuer pricesnot exceeding 30t of the sign area.
ATTACHMENTS
l-
2
3
. Section 20-1302 from City Code.. Section 20-1255 from City Code.. Proposed s ign.
$20.1301 CHANHASSENCTYCODE
collector street as design-ated as such in this chapter. such sig,, shall be located so asnot to conllict with tralfic visibility or street -"irrt"r,.rr"" operations, and shall besecurely anchored to the ground.
(Ord. No. 80, Arr. IX, $ S, 12-fS-86)
o
o
Sec. 2G1302. Neighborhood business and institutional districts.
The following signs sha[ be allowed by permit in any oI or B-1 District:(l) Ground low profile b rsiness signs. One (1) ground low profile business or institu-tional sigrr not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet of sign display area shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsigrr shall be rocated at least ten (r0) feet from any property rine and shall not exceedfive (5) feet in height.
(2) Wa, business sign. one (1) wa, business sign sha, be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The total of all wall mounted signdispray area sha' not exceed ten (10) percentlf the total area of each building wallupon which the signs are mounted, but no individual business
"igo "L.I ";"""itwenty-four (24) square feet in sign display area. A wall business.igr, "tult.roin"mounted upon the wa, ofany building which faces any adjoining residentiar districtwithout an intervening public street.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, $ Z, 12-rE-86)
Sec. 2G1303. Highway and general business districts.
The follo*ing signs shall be a orved by permit in any BH, BG, or BF District:
(1) Ground low profile business signs. One (1) ground low profile business sign shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsigrrs shall not exceed eighty- (g0) sqpur" 6"", .r. sign display area nor be greater thaneight (8) feet in height. such signs shal be locJed at least ten trol r*t r"o- unyproperty line. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding businesssigns, whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs.
(2) Blon business sigrr. One (l) pylon business sign, not exceeding sixty_four (64) squarefeet in sign display area, shall be permitted per lot. A pyron business
"iso g.*tu"than sixty-four (64) square feet, but equal to or less than eighty (gOl
"quu."-fuJt, .lybe permitted after securing a conditional use permit. Such sigrrs
"t uit t" to".i"Al,least ten (10) feet from any property line, and shall not exceed twenty (20) feet inheight. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding business signs,whether such signs are pylon or ground low profile signs.
(3) Wall business signs. one (1) wall business sign shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The total of all wall mounted signdisplay area sha, not exceed fifteen t15) percent ofthe total area ofthe buding wa,upon which the signs are mounted. No individual business sign shall exceed eighty(80) square feet in sign display area. A wall busines"
"lgr, auy U" mounted upon anywall of a principal building.
1268
o
X
#1
ZONING $ 20-1255
!i.c. lG 1255. Signs allowed without permit.
The following signs are allowed without a permit:
(l) Campaigrr signs, not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet in area. The sign must
contain the name of the person responsible for such sign, and that person shall be
responsible for its removal. such sigrrs shall remain for no longer than seventy-frve
(75) days in any calendar year. The city shall have the right to remove and destroy
signs not conforming to this paragraph.
(2) Directional signs.
o
^1A
(3)
(4)
(5)
(6)
a. On-premises signs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The number of
signs shall not exceed four (4) unless approved by the city council.
b. Off-premises signs shall be allowed only in situations where access is confusing
and tralfic safety could be jeopardized or traffrc could be inappropriately routed
through residential streets. The size of the sigrr shall be approved by the city
council and shall contain no advertising.
Signs or displays which contain or depict a message pertaining to a religious, nation-
al, state or local holiday and no other matter and which are displayed for a period. not
to exceed seventy-Iive (75) days in any calendar year.
Informational signs not exceeding sixteen (16) square feet.
Integral signs.
Motor fuel price signs are permitted on the premises of any automobile service
station only ifsuch signs are afExed to the fuel pumps or are made an integral part of
a ground low profile or pylon business sign otherwise permitted in that zoning
district. Motor fuel price signs aIfixed to a fuel pump shall not exceed four (4) square
feet in sign display area. When such signs are made an integral part ofa freestanding
business sign, the sign display area devoted to the price component shall not exceed
thirty (30) percent of the total sign display area of the sign.
Nameplatc signs not exceeding two (2) square feet.
Nonilluminated construction signs confrned to the site of the construction, alteration
or repair. Such a sign must be removed rvithin one (1) year ofthe date of issuance of
the frrst building permit on the site and may be extended on an annual basis- one o)
sigrr shall be permitted for each street the project abuts. commercial and industrial
signs may not exceed fifty (50) square feet in sign area, and residential construction
signs may not exceed twenty-four (24) square feet in sign area.
O.S.H.A. signs.
sigrrs ofa public, noncommercial nature erected by a governmental entity or agency
including safety signs, directional signs to public facilities, trespassing signs, tralfic
signs, signs indicating scenic or historical points of interest, memorial plaques and
the like,
(7)
(8)
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(e)
(r0)
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CITY OF
EHANHASEEN
P.C. DATE: Sept. 2I, 19gg
C.C. DATE: Oct. 10, I98g
CASB NO: 85-2 CUp
Prepared by: Olsen,/v
ko
hJF
@
one-half mile norrh of Hwy. s i._5mm_
PROPOSAL:
TOCATION:
APPLTCANT:
for a LandscapingConditional Use permit
Contractor t s yard
!r--;
Dave Stockdale
7 210 calpin BoulevardExcelsior, MN 5533I
PRESENT
ACREAGE:
DENSTTY:
ADJACENT
AND LAND
ZONING:
Z ONING
USE:single fami Iy
agricultural & Bentz Contractor's yar
vacan t
vacant/agr i cul tura 1
N-
E-
w-
A-2 i
A-2i
A-2 i
A-2;
VIATER AND SE!|ER:
PHYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
The site is outside of the UrbanArea without city i{ater and sewer
The property is fairly level, witharea on the north of the site.
Agr i cu 1tural
Service
a wooded
STqFF REPORT
Fz
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=(LL e/z/ /t-1--
A-2, Agricultural Estale
12.1 acres
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Stockdale CUP
September 21, 1988
Page 2
Building Department
PubIic Safety Department
Engineering Department
Carver County
BACKGROUND
Based on the revised
anC as contained in
Permi t .
site plan submitted on March 18, L985
Planning File *85-2 Conditional Use
Attachment
At tachment
Attachmen t
Attachment
*2
#3
#4
*s
On March 18, 1985, the City Council approved a conditional usepermit for a landscaping contractor's yard for the applicant,
Dave Stockdale, at t.he subject site with the following con-ditions (Attachment #6 ):
I
2 Compliance with the recommenalations of the City Engineer
stated in his memo dated February 22, l-gg5.
as
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
The Zoning Ordinance permits contractorrs yards as a conditional
use in the A-2 District with the following conditions:
1. The minimum 1ot size is five (5) acres.
2. A1I storage and yard areas as well as buildings must be set
back one hundred (100) feet from public or private roadright-of-ways and five hundretl (500) feet from an adjacentsingle fanily residence.
3. The site must be located along a collector or minor arterialas identified in the comprehensive p1an.
4. A11 outdoor storage areas must be completely screened by one
hundred (100) percent opaque fencing or berming.
5. No two (2) contractorrs yard.s shall be located within one (I)
mile of each other.
6. Ilours of operation shalI be from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.,
tqonday through Satuday on1y, irork on Sundays and holidays not
permi tted.
7. tight sources shall be shielded.
8. No outside speaker systems are a1lowed.
REFERRAL AGENCIES
S tockda 1e
S eptembe r
Page 3
CUP
21, 198E
3 Installation of additional evergreens measuringfeet in height along the south property line toscreen the parking area.
at least four
adequate 1y
5
There is to be no
ment on site.signage advertising the business establish-
Vacation of the 60 foot easement on the south side of theproperty.
6. Inspection of the septic systems by the City Engi.neer.
The Zoning Ordinance requires a conditional use permit to havesubstantial construction take place within one year from thedate from vrhich the conditional use permit was granted. Ifsubstantial construction has not taken pJ,ace within one year,conditional use permit is void.the
The applicants did not begin construction on Ehe contractorrs yardwithin one year of the approval and also subdivided the propertyby a metes and bounds subdivision on August 23, L985, to separatea 6.46 acre parcel to the north of the contractorrs yard wherehis residence is now located (Attachment #7). The conditionaluse permit that hras recorded with the county subsequently becamevoid because E.he legal description had been changed due to tshesubdivision. Therefore, the applicant had to resubmit an appli-cation for a conditional use permit for a contractor's yard
because development of the site had not taken place within oneyear and the 1ega1 description ior the contractorts yard had been
changed due to a subdivision.
ANALYS I S
Site Plan
The applicant is requesting a conditional use permit for alandscaping contractor's yard on a 1oE. directly south of hisresidence. The contractor's yard. will consist of a 55,000 squarefoot pole barn which will contain a 25t x 25t office area, a 25rx 45r workshop, and storage space for 7 trucks, 3 trailers andbobcat. The inventory of vehicles are as follords: 3 single axledump trucks, 2 one ton trucks, 2 3/4 ton pick-ups, 3 skid loadersand trailers. The contractor's yard wilI employ 3 staff person-neI and 12 field personnel. The hours of operation proposed arefrom 6:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. with peak hours between the hours of6:30 and 7:30 a.m. and 4:30 and 5:30 p.m. The applicant is pro-viding a paved parking area and the site will be accessed fromGalpin Boulevard located at the southeast corner of the site.
4
Stockdale
S eptembe r
Page 4
CUP21, r988
Access
Se tic S s tems
Because the contractorrs yard building contains an office,bathroom facilities will have to be provided which wilI reguire aseptic system. The applicant has performed soil boringslocating two septic sites. The soil borings and location of thetwo sites still need to be reviewed by the city's consultants,Machmeier and Anderson. The site is fairly 1eveI and staff doesnot feel that the location of two septic sites $rill be difficult.Approval of the conditional use permit will be conditioned uponapproval of the septic sites by the consultants.
The applicant will have to receive an access permit from CarverCounty prior to installation of the driveway and if the siteresults in more than 20 trips per day Carver County may requestthat. turn lanes be installed on Galpin Boulevard. Carver Countyalso commented on landscaping near the Co. Rd. 1I7 right-of-$ray.
These are existing trees.
Drs. Machmeier and Anderson have commented on the informationthey have received to this date (Attachment #8). Drs. Machmeierand Anderson are requesting a profile view of the sewage treat-ment system to determine if a pumping station is needed. Theyare requesting a detailed location of the well and noted that itmust be properly separateil from the septic system and any otherchemicals,/fertilizers stored on the property. The applicant wiIIbe washing three trucks per week. The applicant is proposing tohave wash liquid drain into a set.tlement tank and then into theseptic system. Staff is rcommending that a holding tank beinstalled for the waste water instead of using the septic system.The applicant must provide a contract with a pumper and providethe city lrith documentation stating the holding tank has been
pumped .
Landscaping
The applicant is providing berming along the easterly andsoutherly portion of the property to screen the site from CR 117and the property to the south. The elevation of the parking areaand building is 982. The proposed berm hrill reach an elevationof 988 which will be 6 feet above the parking and building area.The applicant is also providing a retaining wall at the edge ofthe parking and storage area. The berm wilL adequately screenthe parking area and partially screen the building. The appli-cant has provided a landscaping plan and elevation for the bermarea. The applicant is providing 5 foot Blue Spruce 20 feetapart which meets t.he requirements of the ordinance. There is anexisting stand of trees screening the site from the north.Therefore, landscaping is not required north of the building andparking area.
S tockda Ie
S eptembe r
Page 5
CUP
2l , 1988
The applicant is not providing the I00 foot setbackrequired from County Road Ll7 for tshe storage area.
amended site plan wiII be required providing for thefoot setback.
Grading,Drainaqe and Access
The Assistant City Engineer addresses grading, drainage and
access in Attachment *4.
Specific Conditions for Contractorrs Yards
The Zoning Ordinance has eight specific conditions for contrac-
torr s yards, as follows:
I. The minimum lot size is f ive
the
(5) acres .
The property exceeds five acre minimum.
Al1 storage and yard areas as well as buildings must be set
back one hundred (100) feet from public or private roadright-of-ways and five hundred (500) feet from an adjacentsingle family residence.
2
An
100
3 The
AS
The contractor's yard is located within 500 feet of theapplicantrs residence which is located directly to thenorth and is also located within 500 feet of an existing
home on the east side of county Road 117, located
northeast of the site. The property located directly
across from the site on Galpin Boulevard does not containsingle family residences at this tine but has been sub-divided by Mike Klingelhutz for single family homes.
site must be located along a collector or minor arterialidentified in the comprehensive plan.
4
t The site is located along a collector.
Currently, there is a contractor's yard located just south
of the property on County Road 117, Theodore Bentz
5
All outdoor storage areas must be completely screened by one
hundred (100) percent opaque fencing or berming.
r ?he applicant is providing berming and four foot walls to
completely screen the outdoor storage located in theparking areas. The outside storage will not be permitted
above the 4 foot walls and retaining walls.
No two (2) contractorrs yards sha1l be located within one (1)
mile of each oEher.
Stockdale
S eptember
Page 6
CUP
21, 1988
(Attachment *9). Theodore Bentz received a conditionaluse permit for a contractor.s yard on February 4, 1985, bythe City Council. Staff has contacted Ur. Bentz and hiscontractorrs yard is stil1 in use, therefore, the appli-
cantr s proposal would not, meet the one mile separat,ionfrom an existing contractorrs yard.
6. Hours of operation sha1l be from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.1
Monday through Satuday on1y, work on Sundays and holidays notpermitted.
* The applicant has stated that the hours of operation wouldbe from 5:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. The hours of operationwould have Eo be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.n.
7. Light sources shaLl be shielded.
* The site has one light source which shall be shielded.
8. No outside speaker systems are allowed.
* There will be no outside speaker systems.
ceneral Conditions for Conditional Use permits
The landscaping contractor's yard will include activitiesthat are consistent with the city's comprehensive planfor agricultural land, but the proposal does not meet allof the conditions for a contractorrs yard.
3 Will be designed, constructed, operated, and maintained so tobe compatible in appearance with the existing or intendedcharacter of the general vicinity and witl not change theessential character of thats area.
so as
and to
The applicant is proposing berming and landscapingto screen the activity from surrounding propertiesmaintain the rural characteristic of tie site.
The Zoning Ordinance also has 12 general standards for con-ditional use permits.
1. WiLl not be detrimental to or end.anger the public heallh,safety, comfort, convenience or general welfare of the neigh-borhood or the city.
* The location of the contractorts yard in the rural area
and the size of the contractorrs yard should not be detri-mental or endanger the public health, safety, comfort,
convenience or general welfare of the city.
2. Will be consistent with Lhe objectives of the city's compre-hensive plan and this chapter.
S tockda 1e
S eptember
Page 7
CUP21, 1988
The applicant will have to receive an access permit from
Carver County which will ensure adequate site distance
will not be hazardous
neighboring uses.
or disturbing to existing or planned
The site is within the required 500 feet of existing resi-
dences and future residences, therefore, could bedisturbing to planned neighboring uses. The screening ofthe site and other standards required for a contractorrsyard should linit the impact of the site to surroundingproperty.
Will be served adequately by essential. public facilities andservices, including streets, police and fire protection,
drainage structures, refuse disposal, wate! and sewer systems
and schools; or will be served adequately by such facilities
and services provided by the persons or agencies responsiblefor the establishment of the proposed use.
* The size of the operation can be adequately served by aseptic system and private ere1l and will be served ade-quately by County Road I17.
WiII not create excessive reguirements for public facilities
and. services and will not be detrimental to the economicwelfare of the commun i ty.
The proposed contractorrs yard will not create excessive
requirements for public services and faciLities and wiII
not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the com-
munity.
WiIl not involve uses, activities, processes, maleria1s,
equipment and conditions of operation Ehat wiII be detrimen-
tal to any persons, property or the general welfare because
of excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes,glare, odors, rodentss' or trash.
Will have vehicutar approaches to the property which do not
create traffic congestion or interfere with traffic or
surrounding public thoroughfares.
5
7
6
I
4
The contractorrs yard will not involve uses or materialsthat would be detrimental to the general welfare of the
city. The applicant is proposing the hours of operation
that exceed what is allowed with a conditional use permit
which could result in traffic and noise that could bedisturbing to residences. Provision of a holding tsankwill help prevent any possibility of ground rrater con-
tamination.
S tockda 1e
S eptembe r
Page 8
CUP
21, 1988
onto County Road 117. Should the site generate trafficof 20 vehicles or more per day, Carver County may requireturn lanes to be provided on County Road 117 that wouldprovide safe traffic novement.
9 will not result in the destruct.ion,
access, natural , scenic or historic
s ign i f icance.
Ioss or damage of solarfeatures of major
*The locatsion of the building and parking wiII not resultin destruction, loss or damage or solar access, natural,scenic or historic features of major significance.
10. WiIl be aesthetically compatible with the
1I. Will not ilepreciate surrounding property values.
Since the property is locat.ed in an agricultural district
and is a semi-agricultural use, it should not depreciate
surrounding property values.
12. !{i1l meet standards prescribed for certain uses as provided
in this article.
* The application does not meet all of the specific con-ditions for a contractorrs yard as stated in the report,specifically, *2, #5, and #6.
Although the application is a smaller business run by the appli-
cant who lives directly adjacent to Lhe property, and is more ofa family run operaEion, the applicaEion does not meeE. all of the
standarals reguired for a contractorrs yard as a conditional usepermit. Therefore, staff cannot recommend approval of the con-ditional use permit for the contractorr s yard.
The proposed berming and landscaping of Lhe property will
a1lord it to blend in with the area and be compatible withthe area.
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt the
following motion:
'The Planning Commission recommends denial of Conditional Use
Permit f85-2 for the following reasons:
I. The contractor's yard is located within one mile of anexisting contractor's yard.
2. The contractoris yaral is located within 500 feet of a resi-
dence .
Stockdale
S eptembe r
Page 9
CUP
21, 1988
3. The hours of operat.ion exceed those permitted.
Should the Planning Commission recommend approval of the contrac-torrs yard, staff is recomrnending the following conditions:
I The applicant sha1l provide a revised site plan whichconforms to the 100 foot setback requirement for the storageareas.
2 The applicant provide soil boring information 1ocating twoseptic sites for approval by Drs. Machmeier and Anderion foruse of a bathroom facility in the contractor,s yard buildingand provide a holding tank for waste water with a contractfrom a pumper and documentation when the tank has been
pumped .
3 The applicanr sha11
County.
receive an access permit from Carver
4. The applicant shall maintaina.m. to 6:00 p.m. with workholidays.
hours of operation betr,veen 7:00not permitted on Sundays and
5 There sha1l be no signage advertistingestablishment on site.the business
6
7
Conditions of the
Conditions of the
ATTACHME NTS
Building Department.
Engineering Department.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
1r.
Excerpts from City Code.
Memo from Building Department dated September 12, 1988.
l,lemo from Public Safety Director dated August 24, 1988.
Memo from Engineering Department dated September 14, 1988.Letter from Carver County dated September 13, 1988.City Council minutes dated March IB, 1985 & conditional useCity Council minutes dated July 6, l-g87.Letter from Resource Engineering dated September 7, 1988.City Council minutes dated February 4, l9-85.Letter from applicant dated Sept.ember 1, 1988.Site plan .
permi t.
:55:x"
Q,
ZONING $ 20-256
(2) The structure must be in compliance with local building and fire codes
(3) The site will be reviewed annually through a public hearing process.
(4) Septic systems must be in compliance with chapter 19, article IV.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 9(5-9-1(2)), 12-15-86)
Slec. 2G254. Commercial kennels, stables and riding academies.
The following applies to commercial kennels, stables and riding academies:
(1) The structure must be in compliance with chapter 5, article III.
(2) The site must be located on a collector street.
(3) The structure must be a minimum of two hundred (200) feet from wetland area.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 9(5-9-r(3), 12-15-86)
The following applies t, contractor's yards:
(1) The minimum lot size is five (5) acres-
(2) All storage and yard areas as well as bu dings must be set back one hun&ed 000)
feet from public or private road right-of-ways and five hundred (b00) feet from an
adjacent single-family residence.
(3) The site must be located along a collector or minor arterial as identified in the
comprehensive plan.
(4) All outdoor storage areas must be completely screened by one hundred (100) percent
opaque fencing or berming.
(5) No two (2) contractor's yards shall be located within one (1) mile of each other.
(6) Hours of operation shall be from 7:00 a-m. to 6:00 p.m-, Monday through Saturday
only, work on Sundays and holidays not permitted.
(7) Light sources shall be shielded.
(8) No outside speaker systems are allowed.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 9(5-9-r(4)). 12-15.86)
Sec. 2G256. Commercial communication transmission towers.
commercial communication transmission towers not designed to collapse progressively
shall be set back from all property lines a minimum distance equal to the height ofthe tower.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 9(5-9-r(5)), 12-15.86)
X
(
1173
it
Sec. 2G.255, Contractor's yard.
CITY OF
EHINH[SSEI{
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
I{EUORANDUM
TO: JoAnn O1sen, Assistant City
FROM: Steve A. Kirchman, Building
Planner
Inspector \ct r..
DATE: September 12, 1988
SUBJ: Planning Case 85-2 CUP (Stockdale)
Pump and underground tank installation must
approved by the State Fire Marshal before a
be reviewed andpermit can be issued.
Building must be sprinklered.
Septic design must. be submitted to che City and approved prior toissuance of a building permit.
Building requires at least one lavatory and water closet.Separate facilities for each sex must be provided if there aremore than four employees and both sexes are employed.
fr7
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant City planner
FROM:
SUBJ:
DATE:
Jim Chaffee, public Safety Director
85-2 CUP (Stockdale)
August 24, 1988
HZ
From the information provided, this office has no publicsafety input regarding the conditional use permit for aIandscape contractor's yard on 12.I acres of property zonedA-2, agricultural estate and locatecl on Galpin Boulevardapproximately I/2 mile north of Highway 5.
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
ME},IORANDT'M
TO: Planning Commi ssion
FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer
DATE: September 14, 19 88
SUBJ: Conditional Use Permit
Planning File No. 85 -2
for a Contractor's Yard
CUP, S tockdale
4
This site is located on the west side of County Road 117 (Galpin
Boulevarci) approxinately one-ha1f mile north of State Highway 5.This 12 acre site is comprised o:-= rolling topography with arnature grove of trees located on the northerly portion of thesite. The Exhibit "C" shows that lhe applicant also owns andmaintains a northerly lot as his residence shown on the plans.
qanitary Sewer
This site is located outside of the Metropolitan Urban ServiceArea (MUSA). The applicant has delineated an area for the pro-posed septic system sites. These sites wilI be required to bestaked and roped off prior to any construction to prevent anyconstruction traffic over the proposed drainfield-
Wat erma i n
Municipal water service
sources will have to be
Access
is not avai Iable
developed by the
to the site. On-site
applicant.
This plan proposes to access County Road Il"7 by the constructionof a private driveway. This will require a permit from theOffice of the Carver County Engineer. Comments submitted byCarver County indicate that if lhe site generates more than 20vehicles per day, an analysis for a righi turn Iane into the site
wi 11 be required.
Planning Commi ssion
September 14, 1988
Page 2
Grading and Drainaqe
The plan proposes the construction of the building, parking lot
and berms surrounding the parking lot on the south and east sides
of the site. In addition, the plans propose to construct agentle flat berm in an east/west orientation through the westerly
half of the site.
The plans indicate that there is a natural ponding area located
in the central portion of the northerly lot. The construction of
the flat berm mentioned previously wiIl increase the retainagepotential of the ponding site which maintains the predeveloped
runoff rate and has adequate storage for a 100-year storm event.
The plans do not show any provisions for a culvert or constructed
outlet for the pond thus leaving the overflow for the pond
natural , which would run through the proposed parking area an<i
may endanger the building site itself ( refer to Attachment *1).Provisions for a culvert and berming to ensure that the emergency
overflow situaLion can be accommodated without endangering theparking 1ot or propose<i building should be incorporated into the
plans.
The proposeo driveway will be required to have
diameter minimum culvert underneath the access
Road 1I7 (refer to Attachment #2).
an I8-inch
adjacent to County
The parking lot runoff has been directed to the southeast corner
of the parking lot. As proposed, this would create a ponding
situation in the area of the proposed storage for sand, gravel
and black dirt. Page C of the plan set indicates that some sort
of culvert or storm sewer structure will be placed in lhis
southeast corner. This plan is not acceptable as iL would
transport the stored materials such as black dirt or gravel
through the storm sewer system and into the County ditch.
Provisions for directing drainage away from these storage areas
should be made along providing details for the proposed storm
sewer system. A revised plan shall be submitted to the City
Engineer for approval- prior to final review.
Erosion Cont rol
The plan does not
showing the proper
City Engineer for
erosion control .
controls shal Iprior to f inal
A revised plan
be submitted to the
review.
address
eros ion
a ppr ova I
Mi scellaneous
The plans are required toengineer. Revi sed,/f ut urethis signature.
be signed by a registered professional
submittals wiIl be required to have
Planning Commi ss ion
September 14, I988
Page 3
It is therefore recommended that the conditional use
CUP be approved upon the following conditions.
permit 85-2
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions ofthe access permit onto County Road 1I7 as issued by theOffice of the Carver County Engineer.
Provisions for an emergency overflow shaLl be indicated onthe plan set which does not endanger the building or proposedparking lot shall be incorporated into the final grading plan
and shall be submitted to the City Engineer for approvalprior to final review.
1
2
An 18-inch cliameter culvert minimum .+rith flared end sectionswilI be required underneath the proposed driveway just priorto the existing blacktop of County Road 117.
The applicant shalL obtain and comply with all conditions ofthe Watershed District permit.
A revised erosion control plan which includes the City stan-dards for Type II erosion control sha1l be submitted to theCity Bngineer for approval prior to final review.
Storm hrater drainage for the parking lot shall be directed
away from a1I storage areas. Provisions for outletting Lhedrainage from the parking Iot to the appropriate drainageswales sha1l be incorporated into the p1an.
A valley in the driveway shal1 be constructed prior to theexisting blacktop of County Road 117 to ensure that drainagefrom the driveway or parking lot is not routed to the Countyroad.
A11 revised future submi t t a1sprofessional engineer.
will be signed by a registered
Attachment s
Emergency overflow paLh d iag ram.
Driveway detail plan.
3
4
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PUBLIC \I/ORKS DEPARTMENT
(612) 448-343s
CARVER COUNTY COURTHOUSE
600 EAST 4TH STRE ET
CHASKA, MINNESOTA 55318
COUNTY OT CABVIA
September 13, 19gg
RE: Conditional Use Permit 85-2 (Stockdale)
cR 117
Dear Ms. Ol sen:
1) Installation of a new entrance onto CR 117 (GalpinBlvd.) will require a permit from the Carver CountyEngineer's Office. The appl icant is responsible foralI the entrance construction costs including a culvertif requ i red .
?)Tree plant'i ngs along CR 117 should be set back a suffi-cient distance from the right of way line so futuregrowth does not infringe on the right of way. The ex-isting right of way line is 33 feet from the centerl ineof CR 1 17.
Thank you for the opportunity
have questions concerni ng this
ven i ence .
to submrt our comments. If youmatter, contact me at your con-
Si ncere ly,
William J
Ass i stant
Weckman P. E.
County Engi neer
. .-!-i:l v lli
sEP 1 4 1988
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
ss
WJw/cj r
Allimotve AclDn/Equol Owortunily Employer
Ms. JoAnn Ol sen
City of Chanhassen
690 Cou l ter Drive
P O Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
We have reviewed the information submitted for the Stockdale con-ditional use permit. The following comments are submitted:
Council lleeting, Harch 18, 1985 -2-
iaehed aray. They rill pick one ieeksnd after aII of this and 9o over everything.
They rill pq.Ll 8ny l,eeds thst they soe comi,ng up, and will paint any spots on the
fire hydrsnts that didn't get psinted the first tine. There .rere a feri extraa thst
they asked the city of chsnh6ssen to do to cooplete his project. He lrould likc thecity to paint the curbs and crossrelks. He rrould like the carver county H6rsld to dos story on the group as they are doing the project. He rill be taking picturcs
bafore, during and after the project and then give a presentation to the city council
on ihat they did at the end.
l
llayor HaDiltoo asked if the City
Jill Gregory replied yes.
Counci lBan Geving raa rondering
Jir G16gory 88id that hs snd his
h6ve to give aervic€ houra. The
lras to supply the equipnrent needed for this project.
xho rrould be r,orking on this projsct.
Scout
Scout
Troop. In order to advsnce in Scouting, you
Troop needa the tioe just ss JiE does.
by
to be
r un
ra3
Counciloan Geving also suggested that he t.ould lj.ke to see the city sreeperthe areas that the litter is picked up. He ras also nondeIing lf snything
done xith the 2l to, feet posts. He felt that it ie a great project.
JiD Gregory
around then
steted
also.
that they rill be pulLi,ng the l.eeds around the posts and spray
Bill llonk stated that he did not knon if the posts nere private or if theypropesty. He rEa to check into this. He felt that it tras not f,orth it totheo, as they r.ould then have to continuslly paint then.
Iten l5 - Side Yard Setback Variance Request, 720 tlest 96th Street, RonaldThis iteD traa approved unanimously by the Boa.d of AdjuatEents and Appea.Lsearlier lreeting this evening. It rras therefore reooved faoo the Agends.
Landin.
a t an
CONDI IIONAL U5E PERMI I FOR LANDSCAPINC CONSTRACTOR I S YARD ACTIVI IIES, OAVID
BOULEYARD:SIOCKDALE.ONE-HALF MI LE NOR IH OF 5 ON GALPIN
rs re ci ty
paint l
APPR0VAL 0F HINUTE5: Councilrooan l{atson noved to approve the Council Meetingl,linutes dated February 25, 1985. i{otion ',ss seconded by Councilnan Horn. Thefolloring voted i.n favorr Mayor Hanilton, counciryoDen Hatson and s,.enson, andCouncilEen Horn. Counciloan Geving abstsined. Hotion carried.
APPR0VAL 0F ACC0UNTS: Hsyor Hamilton noved to appaove the biIIs as presented:
ch€cks ,022109 through check lOZZtg2 io the aoount of t2jr,g50.6j and checks ,024790through ,O2488, in the anount of t72,488.r4. l,lotion ras seconded by Councj.lranGeving. Ths folloring voted in favor: r.rayor flarirton, councilrooen llatson EndSreoaon, Councilnen Horn and Geving. No negative vote9. l,lotion ca!ried.
HI CHWAY IThig certain parcel totala I8 acres in slze. Earlier this rintcr,subdivision that ras pessed by the Council cre6ting four lots. A alxto be tied in with Mr. Sentzrs parcel, ihich is l4 acres.
it iss
SCre
BARB DACY:
part of a
pa rce I t.as
ho
Councilro.an Hatgoo Doved to note the Planning Cor!tDission Minutes dsted February 27,1985. Xotion r.as seconded by Councilronan Slienson. The folloning voted rn Favor3I'layor HariLton, Councill,omen llatson and Slenson, CouncilDen Horn and 6eving. Nonegati.ve votea. Motion carried.
Council l{eeting r Harch I8, l9B5
Install a tion of
al ong the south
Si gnage to the proposed
Sign 0rdi,n8nce.
additional eve!greens measurin g at
property lj.ne to adequately screen
least four feet in
the parking area.
-t-
T
Also this rinter' Mr. Bentz applied for a con,ri,tional use perDit for the eri,stingcontractor's yard activities, As you recarr, he had approxinstely 9 vehicles andall of theo ',ere to be stored on site in the existing buirdings. This apptication igfor a lendscaping contrsctor'is yard. Ihat is being proposed is the applicantrssingle fsEily home, 1,200 square feet, lrith a three-stall attached garage. As faa sathe contrectorrs yard' '.hat is proposed is a ro by r.00 pole bern uuilding ,,hichrill, bs uaed s9 en office, and rorkshop and storage for 6 trucks. The parki.ng areaie surrounded by a 5 foot bern along Galpin Boursverd, conplioented rith a nuober ofaix foot colorado spsuce, l4 feet 8part. re are aecoDrending thBt he continue thcsaDe tyPe of evergteen vegetation along the south property line. The olevations thathe ia propoeinq to schieve rith the grsdi,ng in this aros is thst ths parking arearill be lorer than the finished gssde of the property around the Eite ao the propertyorinera to the northrest xill see the roof of the building and tho parking area rillbe screened froo the north and xast. This is the first ne, applicstion fo! a nercontractor'e yard. Arl the previous applications have been fos cxisting sstablish-Eenta. rn bstreen the pranning cotrni.saion rseting 8nd this reeting it has beenaaiaed in the neoo' thst the coqncil ray rant to conaider reatrictiona or additionslconditions that neu establishments have to achieve because the exiating applicationsthat lre Looked at are on a one to one basis. It has been suqgested th;t 8150 footsetback froo a public road to the contrsctor.s yard be implenented. I contacted theapplicant today snd fron ',hat he has represented to ne, he has agreed to rsmove theretaininq wall thet is supporting the berming area.nd 1et the berm taper out. Sorhst,ilL be renoved is r0 feet of the parking area. you xould then have a setbackof 80 feet fron the front property Iine to the edge of the parking srea. IhePlsnfiing Cornmission did recoorarend approval based on the folloij,ng four conditions,
I The teconnenda t i ons of
t985.
the City Engineer as ststed j,n his meno of February ZZ,I
?
,
hei qh t
site shall not exceed tro square feet as requi!ed by the
4. Vacation of 60 foot easeDent on the south side of the property.
llhEt re are proposing is vacating this eagenent and moving that dorn to the southbetreen the tro 5-acre parcels rhich can be accotDplished rith the coope!ation ofthe property olrners thenselves.
T
Councilman Horn:Do ne have any other instances r.here ,e have adjoiniog contrscto!!syards?
Barb Dacy: No. AE I nentioned in the report, that ras a concern because they areapproxioately 600 feet ar,ay ftoo each other; but the activity thst appears f.om Hr.Bentzrs operation is ninimal, all of his vehi.cles being stored inside and the countyroad is a 9 ton ',eight linit, noat of the treffic rould be directed onto the countyroad and then dolrn to Highf,ay 5.
Counciloan Horn! I9 this going to be a retail operation?
Eerb Dacv:
the trucks
No. This
to col,le at
is stoEege for landscaping naterials, tiober, grsveI and fornight End be etored inside.
-_
Council l'{eeting, l,larch 18, 1985
08vid Stockdale: l.ly business lrould be pretty Iuch a contract. I often0ccagionally I nould hsve people come to see plana that I have drarn up.
and oset them on site. I enploy eight people eeasonElly and four people
They come to rork betleen 5:rO and B!rO and they go out to job sites.
Counci lnan Horn !Do you have vehicles coning in dropping offlarge
a ac[i
-4-
Counciltuan Horn: llill people cone
ae an office for hiB business?
there to contr6ct? lli1l he be using his facility
Barb Dacv: Ihere is en offiee involved in the pole barn.
Devid Stockdale Eppeared before the council end ahoied then a colored sketch andexplained his propoeals.
t
do the iork.
I rould go
f ull -time.
Ioad comes in ri th timbers and
g!avel ?
othe r than tha tDavid Stockdale,once a reek
ny trucks.it rould just
Councilronan
be
Slrengon:
aiona here for business
According to the
operation. Thi I
zoninq
i.s a b
Counci Iroman Srenson. llhy rould they need a sign to advertise thst they are therenot a buainesg? I do not rant to see a lot of signs of contractorrs yaads
city. Sqmexhere along the Iine lre are going to have to ,nake an anend-
ordinancs,
if
sl I
they are
over the
to this
I don't knon of any contractor's yard that has
h9d the sane eleoents that re have on thi s one.
of buainess?
ordj.nance, there are not sny provi-
usi nesa operation.
been approved tha t
llhe re else rould you
t|nent
Don Ashxorth:
really hasntt
put this kind
Councili.omao llatson, I think it is o.k
out there.
Counci lnan
but I don't see a need to have a sigo
Gevinq: I don't believe there needs to be a big sign out thers. In this
Particular operstion, the eDployees come to rrork, repoat to the ro!k 9ites, theyrsturn. There should be no tesson for people to be looking for this paaticular place.I like the idea of ooving the yard setbacks. 0n this particular site, it seeDato Ee that they ate using a lot of land for a big pErking area. I an elao in favorof the ner rogd betreen the tro 5 acre plots. I |ras interested in the goil per_colatioa test thst PauI }laldron comoented on. He said thet according to the per-colation test end on-9ite investigation, it is ny congidered opinion that e desiqnplgn bo colllPIeted to insure the proper systen for these 9ites. lfould you explain thatto m6 s little nore Bill?
Councilnan Gevinq: So then any cooditions re place on this, I r.ould like an rnspec_
tion report a9 p.rt of our conditions.I
Earb Dacy! The only other example that I can think of is R & [ Sanitstion, Theyuae the house that they are living in nor., f,hich they are renting froo Mr. volk.
They operate their offj,ce in their hooe to do contracting and so on. Acontractorrs ya!d oiner ugually opesates f!oo that yard to conduct their trsde.
Bill Honk: The on-site investigatlon is really the testing that goes on at the t!Deof the building peroit and is dooe in alI cases.
Council lleeting, trlarch 18, 1985
Councilmsn
paevioua appl icati ons that
Don Ashrortht Not in this
Counci I|!En Horn: Hor iould
q6finunity. I have seen it done in other area9.
our existing contractor's yerds be iI!proved to cooply
Horn: In your reComnenda t ion Of
!.e r,o rked on?
150 feet, Don, is that bosed on any
T
T
t
the
lrith
trith this?
Don Ashrorth ! They nou ld not.
Counci lronon Srenson l I yould
checked out
approve the Conditional lJse Permit for Landscaping
StockdaIe, on Galpin Bouleve rd tri.th the fol.Ioxinq
like to have Included in the recomnendations thst
by the City Engineer so re donrt have any problena
llayor Haoilton replied that the dEiveray ras acting es a teaninal for the trucks topick up lllsterial snd so fo!th.
Counciloan Gevinq! What |rill ie see nhen driving along the rosd?
the berra, snd you 8I ao iill arcDavi.d Stockdsle: The lunber should lift up above
Part of the buildings.
eeptic Eystem be
that.
Counci lDan Horn mo ved to
Contrsctor's Yard, David
condi.tions:
1 The recornnendations of the
Eeno of February 22, L985)
Ci ty Engineer ss sta ted in his
rhi ch are!
Utilities: Munici.pal saoitary serer and r.ater faci.lities are notpresently availsble in this ares so the p.oposed use 'ri1I be ser-
viced by a septic system snd private well. percolstion tests foE
a 9eptic system rere perforned aa a part of the recent lot split
involving this site and rere found to be iithin acceptable limits.
Drainaqe:Proposed site qrading i,s mioimal and does not
osterially change the exlsting drainage patterns, The bi.tuninous
surfacing rill incEease the volume of runoff elthough the over6II
rate of runoff from the si,te lrill not change due to the creation
of a sOall pondinq area. The propog6l 69 guboitted does oot pre-
gent eny negative drainsqe impect to this Eree of the BIuff Creek
Drainege area althouqh spp!oval by the Carver County and the
l{atetshed District rrill be required. Conditions of approvsl by
these agencies should be a condition of any City approvel.
Installation of additional evergreena meegurinq
fe.t in heiqht along the sosth property line to
ac teen the pa rking area.
2 at least four
6dequately
Councilman Horn! I sgree rith thc setback. I prefer 150 feet.
Streetsr All drivinq surfecee are proposed to be blscktopped and,
ss nith the City's rural street section, drainage rill be haodled
in ditches in place of concrete cuab, Ihe applicant rill be
requised to secuae an accesa permit froo Csrver County for the
proposed entrance onto CR 117.
Council Heeting, Msrch l8, 1985
No si gnsge on
Vecation of 6
SubJect to the
the proposed site.
60 foot e6senent on the eouth eide of the property.
City Engineer I s inspecti,on spproval of the septic systena.
neeting shori ng the reduc-
aI onq Galpin Boulevard.
-6-
t
4
5
6
l
Based on the revised
tion of the psrking
l6 arcnded 4-15-8r,
p!esented at the
by approxinstely
l.
Plan
arca
P8 ge
Council
l0 f ee t
llotion rae a!conded by councitrooan srenaon. Thc folloring voted in fsvorr IayotHarilton, councilronen lfatson End strenaon, councilDen Horn and Geving. l{o negetiveYotrs. l{ot i on cesried.
FINAL PLAN AI.iENDHENT,l{HIIETAIL RIDGE,NORIHEAST CORNER OF LAKE LUCY ROAD AND GALPIN
EOULEVARO, PAUL PALMER:
Earb Decvr The parcel ia located in the north!ast corner of the Lske Lucy Rosd andGalpin Eoulcvard interaection. Xsldrip's Addition ,ae passed i,n l98l and psrt ofth6t plsn ras the crestion of three lots for duplexes along Galpin Boulevard, fivesingl! felily lots, and the Iot to accorrDodstc the 7-unit apartEent bui.lding thatrxiata thcre nor. At thst tiDe in r98l it nes 6nticipsted thet five singre faoily
lote could br placed in the subject outlot. They changed the n6oe of the OrcherdHills plet end caoe in rith five single faDily Iot8. 5o this request ia to aoend thefinal developnent plan fot 0utlot B, rhich h.d pDeviously been 5 single fsnily lols,fot eight tornhomes. At the Planning Comoigsion meeting there raa some confuaion agto rhat ia the exact process the applicsnt is going to, snd to reiterate Egain thisfinal plsn alllendnent is fo. tornhones. Sj.ngle fami.Iy honea, tornhouses ond nuIti.pIefaDiIy et!uctures are peroj.tted uses in the P-I District. Also raised at the
PIanning Commission meeting, was the over6ll density of Ialdrip's Addi,ti,on. As ori-ginolly plEnned it ras 2 unj.ts per acre. That included the three duplexes, the fivesingle faoj.Iy lots in 0rchard Hills, the 7-uoit 6psrtoent buildi.ng snd the fiveeingle faDily lots in the 0utlot B. Iith this aoendDent, by creating eight tonnhomesit ia incressinq the overall units to 27 and the overall. density of llaldrip's
Addition i8 2.2 units per acre. The dcosity of the individual lot, horever, is Z,g.
The toinhooes aae clustered along the ri.dge and the loi areas in the southesgt andthe goutht.est cornets of the lot9. The laodscaping plsns proposed is a conbinationof evergreens and naples along the south eide of the property on Lake Lucy Road
and along the east side of the property. Evergteens 6re also being proposedalong the north. The Staff recom,nended thst the prinsry function of the
evergteena i9 to screen the parking area occuaEing on the north lot line. Itxas rccomnended thet they be four feet high. Accesg res also a m6jor igsue atthe Planning Commiaaion meeting. The Comnigglon met rith Carver County0fficials out on the site. The letter thBt I distributed this evening just ca,nethis sfternoon. Basically' rhet th6t letter ia ssying is that the county iouldptefer thst the access come off of Lake Lucy R06d. Secondly, they ere Iookingfo! r50 fcct of stopping site distonce. It is not knoin, end they 6re stillnorking oo it to see if this Deets that criteria. Holreve!, it eppeers from thiapreliDinaty evaluation th6t the loceti,on of the existing 6ccess, ot this point,
does not neet thet criteri6. It sppearg thst thig access rould have to be noved
to the gouth and the County is s6yi,ng no further aouth then scross fron 6rth
Street. They also aay in the letter th6t if it is found that the eristiog
acce99 i9 to be maint6ined, vegetstion rould hav. to be cleared on either gide
100 feet to the north snd south of that exigting sccesr to creEte adequot. gite
t
T
o
1. permit. Subject to the terms and conditions set
forth herein, the City of Chanhassen hereby grants a conditional
use permit for: Landscaping Contractorrs yard activity
Propert . The permit is for the following described
property in the City of Chanhassen, Carver County, Ltinnesota:
See attacheil 1egal description marked Exhibit "A''.
o
2
3
f olJ.owing
Conalitions. The permit is issued subject to the
conditions:
I
2
Based on the revised
and. as contained in
Permi t.
site plan submitted on March 18, 1985Planning FiIe #95-2 ConditionaL Use
Compliance with the recommendations of thestated in his memo dated February 22, Lggs.
City Eng i neer as
3 Installation of additional evergreens measuring at. least fourfeet in. height- along the south property line t6 adequatelyscreen the parking area.
4. There is to be noment on site.signage advertising the business establish-
5 Vacation of the 60 foot easement on the south side of thepr oper ty .
6. Inspection of the septic systems by the City Engineer.
ng,
CITY OF CIIANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, !4INNESOTA
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
o o
Criminal Penalty. Violation of the terms of this
conditional use permit is a criminal misdemeanor.
71a,vd.t a8 , /?8{
5
Dated:
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
v:
v r
By:/.Its Clerk
STATE OF MINNESOTA))ss
COUNTY OF CARVER )
zgrn u^, l,jl"
Mayor, and Da Minnesota
foreqoino instru-i'ltirlrii
on Ashsorth, Citymunicipal corpora
ment was acknowledged before me this
, I9S!; by Thomas L. Hamilton,
Manager of the City of Chanhassen,tion, on behalf of the corporation.
4
Notary P
r Jir (.1r,Ell J. ENGELHAROT
.t,-a,ri* ': _ MrNl{eS(rtA
\f.J IUNTY'".;! ! .., c_ I oc. !t !€5
I q 281
CmNHASSEN CrTy COUI\rcIL
REq,LAR MEETI}G
JIJLY 6, 1987
PI,BLIC HEARING:
Rlblic present:
Narne
Kevin pieper
C'ary & Jane Kendrick
"*-*.@.H@
A poRrroN oE
'LEAsANT
vrEw
x ju"D
I
t
Acting Mayor Geving carled the meeting to order. the meeting was opened vriththe pledge to ttE Elag.
ffi*.m",:H;lTT#il;,?T"li5. ticrn, counc i rm an cev ins and
#*tr #trry D)n Ashworth, Barbara Ecy, Jo Ann olsen, cary walren ard rbdd
#".*eE"ffi*H*9T,ff T,ff;*.,ffH"#ff Jff "&,ffiff SB*wanted to dd disc,ssior. +Yr pu.L-una-ni-l#-ai""*"io, ";il;iffii.sinspecrion' Don Ash!,ort' n+-; a; il-#sprinrrirg ban. Ar1 voted infavor of the agerda as amended .na'r,roit"- _.ii.o.
FIS=E ttroo: Councilman Gevirg stated that he did not see any formalrerter asking for 1*rasing ot parti aeaicitio" i."= for cary Brown's Mi.ni-storage ard in tlre futur6 he "o"ra iir..-to-;J"th."" requests in retter sothey become part of the packet.
Councilman Horn moved, Tling I.Vg. ceving seconded to approve the followingconsent agerda items E:rsuani to -*= city'lli*9..," reconmenlations:
a. Oonditional Use permil-
-for a Telephone Eq.lipment Building, tot 7,Block l, Chanhassen gi1ls, Horthwe"t"- s"ff Telephone.
)!t. p9u:=! to sibdivi:d: -rr.X u".." inEo three single famiJ.y lors,' located on Galpin BLvd., !/2 mif" norG of TH 5, David stockdale.
c. Einal plat Approval, Jeurissen Mdition
e. planning C.rxmission Minutes dated June 24, :1ggl
f. A[?roval of phasing park dedication fees, Gary Broh,n Mini_Storage.
A11 voted in favor ard motion carried.
vrsrroRs
'RESENTATTONS:
There r,rere no visitor presentations at this [Eeting.
Address
541 Irdian HiIl Road
550 Indian HiII Road
#7
ROAD,/\ALHALTA DRIVE, CITY OF
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RESOURCE ENGINEEBING
We have received maps titled Exhibit C, Exhibit D andDirection E from your office in regard to the above project.
The print entitled Direction E appears to be a landscapingplan of the proposed buildinq and improvements.
Rogcr E. Machnrcic[. P.E
19665 Ncul Avcnuc
Lindstronr- MN 55015
(612) 257-2019
September 7, 1988
Jo Ann OIsen, Assistant City planner
City of ChanhassenP. O. Box 147
Chanhssen, MN 5 5317
Re: Planning Case 85-2 CUP (Stockdale)
Dear Jo Ann:
Jlnrcs L. Andcrson. C.PS.S
3541 Ensign Avcnuc. North
Ncw Hopc. MN 554?7
(612) 593-5331t
is not speci f ied. Itproperly separated notbut from the bur i edfertilizer which may
On Exhibit D an area is proposed for the drainfield. Nosoil texture data, no depth to seasonally saturated soil norany percolation test data were submitted to us. Inaddition, the estimated sewage flow rate would need to besubmitted by the developer in order to determine the amountof drainfield area required. Consequently, we cannot
comment on the suitability of the site with respect to theinstallation on an on-site sewage treatment system. It mustalso be noted that any site proposed for the installation ofan on-site sevrage treatment system must be protected againstany and all construction activity which would damage or
compact the original soi l.
When the design of the sewage treatment system is submitted,a profile view will be necessary to determine if a pumpingstation is needed to deliver the septic tank effluent to thedrainfield area. The maps submitted to us show noelevations of the source of the serrrage in the proposedbuilding.
It is noted on the map entitled Direction E that "Liquidwaste from truck washing, etc., to drain into settlementtank buried under floor and then flow out to drainfield."
we would strongly advise against allowing this design t8
SEP i :1988
{.:I TY OF CHANhASSgT
SPECIALISTS IN ONSITE SEWAGE TBEATMENT
The location of the hrater supply wellshould be noted that the well must beonly from the seerage treatment systemfuel tank and any other chenicals andbe stored on the property.
Planning Case 85-2 CUP (Stockdale)Page 2
The reason for this recommendation is that when trucksor cars are washed or are in a service bay, there is likelyto be used engine oiI, hydraulic fluid and otherpetroleum-based products containing hazardous wastesintroduced into the drainage system. Many petroleum
products contain PCB's and other toxic chemicals, which mustbe handled and treated in a manner that will prevent theirintroduction to the environment. These materiats will notbe filtered or removed by the soi1, and if they flow into asubsurface soil treatment system, they vrill percolate
downward with the water through the soil and be a potential
hazard for groundwater contami nation.
In addition to the service bay drainage and petrol.eumproducts, it is likely that during the winter, road
chemicals will be washed from vehicles and introduced to thefloor drain system. If these compounds are discharged intoa subsurface absorption system, the soil will not adequatelytreat these water-solubLe chemicals and they vrill also move
downward with the percolating water and be introduced to thegroundvrater.
As soon as soils data are subnitted along $rith an estimateddaily sewage flow rate so that the size of the onsite sewagesystem can be evaluated, we will make a field visit toverify that data.
Sincerely yours,
/1
Rog e Machmeier, P.
ENG I NEER I NGRESOURCE
t.)n !,@/v
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REM/j jm
because of the possibilty of groundwater contamination. Theon-site sesrage treatnent system shoul,d handle only
domestic-type wastes, that is from toilets, showers, kitchenfacilities, etc. If there is a service bay for vehicleswhich are lubricated and washed witb the $rastes flowing intoa floor drain, this type of liquid waste absolutely must notbe di.scharged into a subsurface seerage treatment system orsubsurface drainage systen. Any liquid r.rastes associatedwith servicing vehicles or the washing of vehicles must bedischarged into rratertight hotding tanks. This Iiquid wastenust then be removed from those tanks in a proper manner andtransported to a waste treatment site operated by the
Metropol itan Waste Control Commission.
Council l{.cting Februsry 4,
Hotiofl s"conded by
Counci lrol!en lletson
Hotion cas!ied.
1,o -2-
CONDIIIONAL USE PERHIT FOR CONTRACIORIS YARD. 7'OO GALPIN BLVD, TEO BENTZ:
Councilrooan Uatson moyed to approve a conditional use peroit , planning Case
,8t-2o, for a contractor's yerd st 7100 Galpin Blvd. subject to the folloning
condi ti,ons !
t. Expansion of the cxisting operation beyond rhat has been represented in this
application nust b6 approved by a conditionel, use permit.
2. All equipment nust bc stored Hithin a building or the outaidc vehicle storagea!!5 r!ust be 3c!ecned -on al,l sides rith adequate fencing of st lsast gix feet inh"i 9h t.
t.
Councilsan Hosn. The folloiing voted in favot: Mayor HaDilton,
and Srcnson, CouncilEan Horn and Geving. No nagativr votes.
PI PER RIOGE SUBOIVISION PR EL IMI NARY PLAT. RANOY HERMAN:
Barbara q?l)l - Eased on the councir recolo.o.ndation, the applicent has ravised theprBliDinary plst to locat. ths proposed road right-of-ray to ths n!et of the retlandercs. All the rot sirGs oa!t tha riparj,an and non-aiparian lot a!ea requiseoents ascatsblishcd by 0rdinsncB 65. Hoiever, inyolved in th.i.s app.ov6l, the councir hss toconsidcr variances to thc 75 foot structure sqtback for the buil,ding psds on Lots l,2, and t. As it appears thc psoposed building peds for Lots Z snd, aae ,ithin 20to l0 feet of th! edge of thG retrand area. Hor.yer, the building pad for Lot I is[uch close!, rithin 5 to l0 fset of the edgs of the ,lersh. As I pointed out in thelcport, scveral criteria to baae your decision on a r.tland ot not if vatiences
Should be gsanted, as you recall froo the lirst proposal, Iuch oF the iork HasdistuEbing at least 50: of thc ietland.
Coun ci llrooan Snenson
caI er!or here,4r,
be iiE,!aterially',
can tly .
- 0n page, of the staff ssport, I think thsre is a typog.aphi-firet psragraph, nThst the granting of the application !rr.lL notb6lieve that should bB Estesj,all.y or substantia.Lly or si.gnifi_I t
Esrbata Dacv It shou ld be risterially.
Councilrnan Gevinq - The last tiDe that lrc met re had some discussion on Lot I and thefect that there '.ould hsve to be substantiar amount of fill placed in that Lot areaon the pad to nake that a buildable Iot. As I look at the oap, I uoirld like to havesooeone verify this for ne, rhere it gays proposed ranbLer wslkout, there is a nine
and a five and theo there .is a blur there. I cantt tell yrhether thatrs a seven or a
onc.
Randv Hermen fhat's a 9oven.
councilnsn Gevino - It!e 957. The last tiare re oet I discussed this and I suggested
that re look at lhe lot on the north side of the road l.hich is slso 957 and I havedriven by there ony tines aod I have noticed that teter has alrays stood in thstelea just nosth of the bituninous section of the road and if rs ase going to buil,d,the b.ck of this houss ril,l sit at 997. I reatly have sore rea6!vations about thatand Randy Hhen re Ieft here lhat niqht you rere 90i,ng to ask your enqinee. and youxele 90i,ng to do sone oore indepth soul searching rhether or not you could actual.Lybuild on that Iot. Ho|. do you feel nor,?
Randv Hec".n - The place Hhere you 9et your feet ret do;n in ths actual marsh atea i9aboul 95r. Ihatrs Hhese it.s ret. If it gets any higher than that it flolrs out.Ihcre is a natural ditch that flor,s through !here. Therc are trepped pockets of,ater in there at 95r. fhe standaad that ie u9e and the one s6t up by the FederalHou3ing Admrnistration th6t says that the lore.t fLoo. in any dlieILing shouJ,d b6 atlc.st fosr feet above the nearby xater table. It,s oot actually a rater tabI. but
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Septenber l, i -q80
To: Planni rq Commis:ion and L'itg Douncil
Cit! of Chnnhd3sen
Chnnhdssrfi, l"ln. 55i | ?
Re: Re-rpplicrtion t'or Conditionsl Use Permit
To Whom it Hag Conc+rn,
0n tlarch 20, I 985, I recei"rd confirmation 0iagprotv"l f0r € c0nditionol use permit tbr
propertg thst I hes in the process of buging at ?210 Golpin Blvd. Mg purch$B ogreement var
conti ogerrt ulon appro!.d 0f this corditionll (Ise permit. I apprecistd Uour c0rlsiderslion rr{
vo: villi ng to conform to tlp conditioffi slated i n tpur letler 0f npprwal. Subequent t0 recei pt
0f the letter, I built a h0uee of the approxr mste dl mens'i0m, but sttuated it closer to the etreet
thdn ,riqi nsll q propored. AIso, due i0 the unstsble c0rditiom 0f the frrm industrg, the m0rtg6ge
i nslitutions .,rrre not dloving m0rtgages 0n lord Farcels grealer thsn l0 Ecrffi. I lherelbre Vrs
mrced t0 iubdivide ard seporate mg residence as identified End contirmed in a ietter irom
E0rbaro Dacq ftted Augu:t 29, 1985. 5he st8ted thit olthough the plon hEd been approved, due
t0 the legil sepirsti0n 0f the lvo prrcels, I 'srould hsve to reappl g t'or the conditional use permit.
At this ti rne I rlm requeiti ng reconsideralion for the Corditional usc Pirmit for the stme
purp03fi.:3 1/f,'3 preuaurlq approve{. I hove fflofified E slte plEn t8t(lrq tnto sccounl not 0nlq
tfie rdv exrstirril rffi'lences, but als0 sonie congiderstiorr respordi r{ t0 s memorsrdum fr-0m Dorr
Ash!,'orth Elireiied to tte llaqor ard Citg Council dsted Hsrch 18, 1 985.
Folloli i flq are Eome sf the vital i nformation regardi ng mg personal ond busi ness bockground, and
phqs'icr'l tnd tempor:l needr es it rehies t0 the proFertq in quffifion:
Projcct:
tlorrtraclor's Yard 0n parcel sdJace0t t0 per3onol rffiidence
ADplicoot:
David Stockdale atd Anga },tcBrgde- Stockdale
T2l0Galpin 8lvd.
Chanlmssen,Hn.5533l 4?4-76?6
I\nt - tZbe
0vncr of Perard:
Picbord B. lgnnn
1 810 Trog Lom
Houn , H[.
4?3- 2?8 t
Legal Dercri ption:
3ee Attsched, Exhi bit A
Proposed Start Dttc:
Fsll . I ir88
Yici nitg map:
Attached. Erhi bit I
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
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CHANHASSEN PLANI{ING DEPT.
Hto
5tr uct ure:
+i th
baUs
5i te:
Dole barn approx. 5u'x I I B': spprox l8'tull st r00f ri'lqE. [on:truction trtprcal
earth tone fini:h. Designed to contain 15';<15'office. ?5'x4E'',trk shop, storsge
tDr 7 trlcks. J trailers, rnd bobcats.
Eecru:e oithe nitural topogrsphg, the:tructure rnd idjcininq qard space vill be
n*tled d0vrr I nto gr6Oe. +/lth rddttl0nsl peri meter bermi nq 8nd tree plantr ng,
iubjtafitial Jcreeniri,.t vill dramaticsll q reduce the visu€l impdct 0n adjacent
pro perties.
0vcryiey of Bmi ltcsJ:
Established I 976
Pri morg businffis- hndscape struclure c00$tr$lion
l'larket base- S.'r{. Mpls. suburbs- Edim, EI6mirgton,E&n prsirie, Lrkel'tinnetonks srer.
Frin}arq clirnt- Enchrnnn's, 1rc.
H0ur3 0foFerrtion- 5:50 A.H- S:30 p.H
Peak hours- b:30 A.l"l.-7:10 A.M........4:i0 p.l,l.- S:I0 p.H.
Ferk season- *pril l5- !,lorrmber l S
No. of emplogea:- 3 stiff, l2 field
List [fvrhirlse- i ein,tte le dumg trucks, z one ton trucks. a_S/.4 t00 pick ,lF, s
shd lo#ers srd trsilers.
Zoni ng {[d Lxnd U$e:
A-2, Agricultural ss per l,.r!0 Land U5e FlEn
Site PIan:
Attactrc.d- Exh'ibits C ind D
Th;nk gou tnr {our rorrgideritirln,
ln cloeing, I feel csnfident thi; pro-iect r,rill beconre r model ex!mple 0ivhEt the rl0mmiBii0n
trid lntended E f0ntrictor'5 lirdt0 be. lt/ouh, liket0EdrlthstIfeel stronglqnD0ut m.inlmr:rng
the vieudl imprct not onl{ 0n [rr! oe'i']hbur's pr0pertiEr, but also as it reldt* t0 rnrl residrrce.
ln r,lnsider0tj0fi 0f this :ite ior n runditional u:e permit- totheextent thatit is econorrricilig
ftffirble. lrm vrllinq to aco:mmr.r,late mu nerqhbor's \,anis and nee&. ond cEn ffisure puthoi
flrU utmost f:0ncern is to be a qood neiqhbor and resFoffii ble citlaen.
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ADDRESS lUO 6atpnrB ul o.
qtnilrttt3 N'r 53=/
TELEPHONE (Daytime) A,rVnL:
p Code
REQTJEST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning ?ext Amendment
Iand Use plan Amendnent
X conditional Use permit
Site plan Review
I.AND DEVELOPTGNT APPLICATION
CITY OF CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
ChaDhasseD, MN 55317(612) 937-1900
oulrea:-T)Kr-Ltu
ADDRESS ttrO kltu
A u
TELEPHONE zi P code
Planned Unit Development
_ Sketch plan
_ preliminary plan
_ Final plan
Subdi vi s ion
_ Platting
_ Metes and Bounds
Str ee t,/Eas emen t Vacation
Wetlands permit
PROJECT NA,IYE rdo
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
REQTJESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT zoNrNG -RL-A:
REQUESTED ZONING
USES PROPOSED
S.-Pu- I h*to10
SIZE OF PROPERTY ?r. I l'<taEs
LOCATION r\,Gtnla 5 S. Aorrwurm U0 (/6,t1t:'Bwo.
REASONS FOR THrS REOUEST CoHtrn OHru
fir\ Fi{llr( btDrt{Eba
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LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach legal if necessary)
APPLICANT.M
FT L ING rNSTR U CTIONS:
FILI CER,T TF ?roN :
Signed By
App i
The undersiauthori zeddescribed -
Signed By
Fee O\nrne r
Date ApplicaE.ion Recei ved
Application Fee paid
city Receipr No.
-
This application must be compreted in fulr an., h6 !!,-^.-_i -.clearry- p.i;a;"";;-must be i;;;il";;J.ii :li Hr:IH:xi::.:1u".Eiil;r'ffi:':SriI":Epl-i""ui"-;;i;";;;i;",,"u provisions. Beroreco der.ermin. *,. =o.1?l-t _Yoo.shourd confer with the citv ii""r,",appri;;;-i;"i" l;,;';;;ii:":i:i:""ce and procedurar ..eoi..il,,t.
City of Chanhassen
Land DevelopmenC ApplicationPage 2
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cer,,i f i es
Dat e
Date
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gned hereby certifies. that the applicant has beento make rhis applicarion foi itr".ii.p.-Iiy herein
by the
thei r
This.gppl!6ation will be consideredl:o:9 "t edjustmenrs and Appeals ar&eeLing
Planning Cornmi ss i on,/
CITY OF
EIIINH[SSEI[
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DA?E: Sept. 21, 1988
C.C. DATE: Oct. 10, 1988
CASE NO: 87-1 zOA &82-5 CUPPrepared by: Dacy,/v
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Amendment to Conditional Use permit to InstallLight Standards, Extend Hours of Operation andPermitting Installation of a Sign
Northwest Corner of Co. Rd. 117 and TH 5LOCATION:
APPLICANT:
Amendment Request to StanalardsRanges With or Without Miniature
John Pryzmus
7476 Saratoga Drive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
PROPOSAL: 1. Zoning Ordinancefor Golf DrivingGolf Courses
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:A-2 i
A-2i
A-2i
A-2t
, :. ri :, , .:/ .-J'nlt;staslti
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contractor I s yard
single family residence
single f arnily residence
vacant and agricultural
WATER AND SEWER:
PHYSICAL CEARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Agriculture
There are no municipal services availableLo the site.
The site contains a Class A wetland in thenorthwest corner
2.
A-2, Agricultural Estate
18.1 acres
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Pryzmus CUP &
September 21,
Page 2
zoA
1988
BACKGROUND
on November L6, L987 , the City Council approved a zoning ordi-
nance amendment to permit golf driving ranges with or without
niniature golf courses as a condilional use in the A-2,
Agricultural Estate District. The Council also adopted standardsto evaluate conditional use applications. They are as follows:
a. The location of the driving range is limited to being adja-
cent to TH 5 and TH 212, an access must be from a collector
or arterial which leads to TH 5 or TH 212.
b. The hours of operation sha11 be from sunrise to sunset.
c. Provision of adequate parking areas and submission of a
landscaping plan in conformance with the Zoningr ordinance.
d. No site sha11 be located within 500 feet of a single fanily
resiilence.
e. Buildings on the site may not exceed 800 square feet and
shaIl be painted in earth tones.
The Planning Commission at the April 22, 1987, meeting recom-
mended approval of the zoning ordinance amendment and recommended
t.he first four of the five conditions.
( The ordinance amend.ment including golf driving ranges with or
without miniature golf courses as a conditional use in the A-2
District was adopted just before adoption of the new codified
ordinance. Although not specifically printed in the new codified
ordinance, the approving ordinance adopting the codified ordi-
nance does include the aforementioned ordinance amendment. )
On August 22, L988, City staff presented a review of the con-
ditions of approval of the condit,ional use permit for Council
review. The City Council tabled review of the Pryzmus con-
ditional use permits until the Planning Commission could review an
amendment to the zoning Ordinance and the conditional use PermiEto permit the items that the applicant rltants to install.
ANALYSIS
differeot from city approval of the driving
golf course projects are as follows:The items that are
range and miniature
1. Installation of
2- Installation of
3. Installation of
s tandards .the light
a sign.
video games and vending machines.
Pryzmus CUP &
September 21,
ZOA
1988
Page 3
4. Reduced size of parking 1ot (batEing building was denied).
Because the parking 1ot has been reduced, the amount of screeningalong Galpin Boulevard can also be reduced. The applicant is inthe process of rebuilding the berms that were proposed along Hwy.5 and Galpin Boulevard. to the indicated 4 feet height on theapproved plan. The applicanr is also currently installing theevergreens identified on the originally approved p1an.
Liqhtin q
The intent of the city's prohibition of installation of lights
leas to limit the intensity of the use in view of its locat.ion ina rural area. The applicant has installed 75-watt flood lightsapproximately 2 to 3 feet in height along the miniature golf
course area. Also located on the $rest side of the building areflood lights that are directed on the driving tees. There are noother light standards installed on the property or proposed bythe applicant. The Planning Commission may amentl the originalconditional use permit to permit the installation of the lightsalready installed on the site or the Commission can recommendto the Council to have the lights removed.
Hours of Operation
The applicant is seeking an amendment to the ordinance to permithours of operation from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. The originalordinance stipulated hours of operation from sunrise to sunset.Obviously, expanding the hours of operation would dictate theneed for lights on the property. The Planning Commission needsto decide whether or not this amendment is appropriate.
S igna qe
Video Games and Vendin g Machines
Discussed in the 1983 permit application r^ras the ability toinstall video games and vending machines on the property. Thisissue was not discussed during the 1987 ordinancL amendments.The applicant has installed 9 video game machines and two vendingmachines. Upon direction from the City Council the appticant
Not aliscussed during any of the previous applications on thissite is signage. The applicant has installed a 32 square footsign reading "Driving Range". The A-2 District does not permitsignage for this type of use. If the Planning Commission wantsto permit signage on the property, it should amend the standardsfor the conditional use to identify such. An ordinance amendmentallowing this may be appropriate given that other uses such asgolf courses would have this type of signage. Given the size ofthe property and the nature of the use, staff finds that the 32square foot sign size is not excessive.
Pryzmus CUP &
September 21,
Page 4
zoA
1988
Currently, the city does not have an ordinance requiring the
licensing of video machines. Further, a definition of a video
arcade has not been provided up to Ehis point. In this par-
ticular situation, it may be appropriate for the city to identify
in the standarils for golf driving ranges and miniature golf cour-
ses that a limit be established to prevent an accessory use from
becoming the primary use. The size of a building or a golf
driving range with a miniature golf course is already limited to
800 square feet. At one time the city did define an amusement
arcade as having a business with more than five "mechanical amu-
sement devices". Upon conferring with the Public Safety
Department, the current number of games located in the building
does not appear to be causing a problem. Secondl-y, staff finds
that this type of activity can be considered accessory to the
driving range and miniature golf uses; however, it is recommended
thaE a maximum of ten games be identified in the ordinance to
clarify future policies on this item.
RECOMMENDAT ION Zoning Ordinance Amendment
Should the Planning Conmission approve the request to amend the
zoning ordinance to add standards regarding golf driving ranges
with or without miniature golf courses, the following motion is
recommended:
removed a cigarette machine. The
was that the building housing the
the primary use as a video arcade
miniature golf and driving range.
the Council felt that they were a
miniature golf and driving range.
No site sha1l
residence.
City Council's primary concern
video machines did not become
versus an accessory use to the
As to the vending machines,
logical accessory use to the
a The location of the driving range is limited to
cent to TH 5 and 'lH 212, an access must be from
or arterial which leads to TH 5 or Tll 2I2.
being adja-
a collector
b. The hours of operation shall be from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.
Provision of adequatse parking areas and submission of a
landscaping plan in conformance with the Zoning Ordinance.
c
d be located within 500 feet of a single family
"The Planning Commission recommends approval of Zoning ordinance
Amendment #87-1 to amend the standards for conditional uses for
golf driving ranges with or without miniature golf courses as
follows:
Pryzmus CUP &
September 21,
Page 5
g.
Buildings on theshalI be painted
No more than tenother mechanical,installed. Thisor soft drinks.
site may not exceed 800in earth tones.square feet and
zoA
1988
e
f Installation of a sign advertising the facility is permj.tted,however, in no case sha11 the sign exceed 32 s{uare'feet.
videc games including pinball machineselectrical or electronic machines bedoes not include vending machines for
or
food
should the Pranning commission lvish to amend the conditional usepermit, the follorring motion is recommended:
"The Planning Commission recomnends approval of the amendedConditional Use Permit *82-5 amending t.he conditional use permitissued November 16, L987, with the following conditions:
1. Installation of 22 six foot evergreen trees al,ong TH 5 andGalpin Boulevard.
RECOMMENDAT ION - CondiLional Use permi t
Light standards on the property shall be limited to 75 wartlights not to exceed 3 feet in height to be located in theminiature golf course area. Lighting may be located on thebuilding for security and to illuminite the driving rangetees to the west. In no case shaI1 any lights be direciedadjacent properties or glare onto abutting road right-of-ways.
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on
3 No more lhan ten video gamesother mechanical , electricalinstalled. Vending machines
may be installed.
including pinball machines oror electronic machines bedispensing food and soft drinks
4. Hours of operation shall be from 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.
5. There shall bethe planting ofThere shal1 be
approved by thepermit process.
no alteration to the wetland area except forgrass seed and periodic disking of the site.no filIing, grading or other alteration unlessCity Council through the i"retland alteration
6.Fencing on. the property sha1l not exceed 6'6,' in heightunLess authorized by conditional use permit. The apf,licantshal1 provide to the city a copy of the contract wiLh alicensed pumper in compliance ,ritf, the City'" S.pti.'-Coa"".
Pryzmus CU
S eptembe r
Page 6
& zoA, r988
P
2l
ATTACHME NTS
Ordinance 80-E regarding golf driving ranges with or withoutminiature golf courses.Conditional Use Permit dated November I6 , l-987.City Council minutes dated August- 22, L988.City Council minutes dated November 16 , L987.
Planning Commission minutes dated ApriI 22, 1987.
Adopted site plan with November 16, 1987 approval.
1983 Conditional Use Permit.
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5
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
ORDINANCE NO. 8O-E
THE CITY COUNCIL OF CIIANHASSEN ORDAINS:
SECTION I. Article V, Section 3,
A-2, Agricultural Estate District,
adopted and amended heretofore, is
follows:
Uses is
14.
(4) Conditional Uses in the
of Zoning Ordinance No. 80, as
hereby amended to read as
and submission ofArticle VIII of
10. Golf Driving Ranges with or without miniature golf
cour s es
SECTION 2.Article V,Section 9 (14) Standards for Conditionalto read as f o.Llows:hereby amended
Golf driving ranges with or without a miniature golf
courses:
A. The location of the driving range is limited to beingadjacent to TH 5 and TH 2L2 and access must be from acollector or arterial which leads to TH 5 or TH 2L2.
B
c
Hours of operaEion shal1 be from sunrise to sunset.
Provision of adequate parking areas
landscaping plan in conformance withthe Zoning Ordinance.
No site sha1l be located withinfamily residence.
500 feet of a single
Buildings on the site may not. exceed 800 square feet
and shal-1 be painted in earth tones.
SECTION 3. This ordinance shall become effective from andafter the date of its passage and official publication.
Passed and adopted by the Chanhassen City Council this 16t.hday of November, 1987.
D
E
Don Ashworth,
Published in
ILY Mana ge r L. H aml 1ton,Thona s
Nei^rs on
Mayor
r987tshe South Shore Weekly December 17,
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ARTICLE V, SECTION 3 (4) OF THE CHANHASSEN
ZONING ORDINANCE NO. 80, ADOPTED FEBRUARY 19, 1987
AT1EST:
1
a
1. Permit. Subject to the terms and conditions set
forth herein, the City of Chanhassen hereby grants a conditional
use permit for: A golf driving range with a miniature golf
course .
2. Property.The permit is for the following described
Chanhassen, Carver County, Minnesota:property in the City of
See Exhibit A.
3. Conditions.The permit. is issued subject to the
following condi Eions:
Submission of a revised grading plan by December L, 1981 ,
showing the proposed Iimits of grading, methods of erosion
control where necessary indicating the size and revised Ioca-
tion of the parking lot and club house tr00 feet from the cen-
terline of County Road J-17, and proposed berm areas around
the putting green and miniature golf course area. The
parking area shall be paved. city staff sha11 revier., and
approve said plan prior to activity occurring on the site.
Submission of a reviseil landscaping plan by December L, L98? ,to adil a 2 foot evergreen heclge and 6r trees in front of Ehe
proposed parking area. City staff sha1l review and approve
said plan prior to activity occurring on the site.
Fencing on the property sha1l not exceed 6 feet 6 inches in
height unless authorized by conditional use permrt.
The two septic system sites along County Road l-17 shall be
protected from grading activities and shalf be staked and
protected in the f ie1d.
The applicant shall- install a holding tank and sha11, comply
with all the requirements of Ordinance No. l0-B. A copy of a
contract. with a licensed pumper shall be provided prior to
issuance oE the sept.ic permit.
The applicant shal1 comply with the requirements of the
Watershed District, Fish and Wildtife Service, DNR anil any
other legal jurisdiction as it relates to utilization of Ehe
site.
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5
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CITY OF CHANHASSEN
CARVER AND IIENNEPIN COUNTIES, MINNESOTA
CONDITIONAL USE PER}IIT
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7. There shall be no alteration to Lhe wetland area except forthe planting of grass seed and periodic disking of the site.There shal1 be no filling, grading or other alteration unlessapproved by the City Council through the wetland alterationpermit process.
8 The applicant sha1l provide proper
amount of 110t of the cost of theprior to December 1, 1987.
financial security
improvements to the
in thesite
9 There shalf be no light standards on the premises. Ilours ofoperation shaIl, be from sunrise to sunset.
I0. The applicant shall pay
Engineering by Decemberfuture fees if services
mined to be necessary.
all fees incurred by ResourceL, 1987 , and shall be responsible forby Resource Engineering are d.eter-
4. Termination of Permit.The City may revoke the
permit following a public hearing under any of the following
circumstances: material change of condition of the neighborhood
where the use is located; violation of the terms of the permit.
5. Criminal Penafty.Violation of the terms of this
conditional use per it is a riminal misdemeanor.
DaE.ed:/t,
CITY OF HANHAS S EN
By:
STATE
COUNTY
OF MINNESOTA
OF CARVER
The
lX^A day ofIvlayor, and D
a lli nnesota
regoing i ns tru
on Ashvrorth, Citymunicipal corpora
Ibs Ma or
Its Clerk
acknowledged before me thisby Thomas L. Hamilton,of the CiLy of Chanhassen,behalf of the corporation.
By:
ment was, L9n,
llanager
tion, on
Kro.N J. Ei!..' u.!..17licl; q/ Pu:ttc , I \)tAcAFVi:.i Cl_r
My co.'l:nrssm er_ -, r_-1+31
No ary
(
Councilman Johnson: By our next &uncil meeting?
f,tayor Hamilton: Sure. September 12th.
@unci lman Johnson: t{ould you Iike to add that to the nrotion Bill?a schedule by Septsnber l2th?
@uncilman BoyE: Sure.
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l
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To bring us
Councilman Boyt moved, Counci lman Horn seconded to approve the Assulptionsqninary tirnetabre for securing _the buirdings on the- lroperty as profrsea ana todirect staff to bring an u[dated schedure dck by septqnber 12, 1988. Ar,r votedin favor ard the motion carried.
-*-,-RE1,rIEi{ PRYA{US DRrVI}IG RATGE AND MINIATT'RE @LE COURSE.
Barbara Daqa: Ttle appr icant is here tonight also anl r,erve reviewed theconditionar use EErmit and what exists oui on the propertv tJav. -rtre sum.ryon page 4 identifies 3 i tgns which r berieve r"e reiorired i.c tr,i, poisibly a '
fourth one wourd be arso rsnoval of the buirding parts th"i u;; i;;t.a b"t ^."r,the parking area ard the street. Tvo itsns were iot discussJ arii.,g the mostrecent apprication process in 19g7 and 19gg. Those tq,o issues rtere lnsErlationof video games ard verriing machines ard rhe instarlation of;-.i;;: -L to tr,"sign, that is a tlpical accessory feature to an operation such "i ttis but videogames ltere not discussed at all.
Mayor Hanilton: John, do you have anything you qEnt to present?
John Pryznus: r guess r ree-r ly don't. r opened up on the 5th of July ard itrsbeen a rong hot surmer... rhe progress so iar has been a rittre srow... scrneof our prants ard trees wilr be later on in the fall. As far as the steel
?:tl!i:nl I.m rrorking right_now on selling it. I don'r know. r,d prefer ro getlt sor€l rather than try to fird soneplace to store it. rf it's a ligrrt probienard r donrt get it sold by next month, $rhat r possibly courd do...so'it raoutdn,tbe visibre. Like r say, it's been srow but evlrythini is comi.ng together.
l4ayor Hamilton: you're wilring to put the culvert in and the driveway? 1"hatapparentry wasnrt done. you'!ve got to put a curvert in there. The eiergreensyourre going to do. rhve you gotten permission frcrn MnDot to put them in theright-{f-way?
John Pryznus: lhe culverts are all j.n.
I4ayor H,amil ton: No, I mean the trees.
Barbara Dacy: Ihere are no trees j.n the right_of_way.
l4ayor Harnilton: The berm was supposed to be located right?
Barbara Drcy: If he eranted to install the berms that he had original-Iyirdj.cated, they would have to.
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6q
Cily Council lEeting (.nu.. 22, lgrjg
t
City Courcil t'€"tif - August 22, 1988
I John Pryznus: the berms are there. As far as the trees, I r.ron't be able toplant, only 2 feet out of the right-of-r.ray so I will be v,,orking with theArboretur. Right now they have scnre different planting shurbs that rrd rike toplant all alorg the site... I'II put the evergreens inside of the ferce.
l,layor lbrnilton: And yourre going to take the J.ights down that yourve got inthere as reccnmerded by staff? The l ights that you had put out there, you,regoing to rqnove those?
John Pryznus: At this point, all IIy ccmFtj.tion has lights. I r.,ouldn'tfinancially be able to c{mlEte with t}rsn so at this poi;t, I guess I hronrt.
l,tayor Hanil,ton; so Irou riElnt us to shut you dor,m then? you're not inconformarre witi your cordi tional use. It $ras frqn sunrise to surdown.
John tsyznus: Ihat $,as back rhen re had the sunrise ard sunset. In theoriginal, lrhen just the drivirg rarge was approved ard r guess rNe didn't go overit all...
!,talror Hamilton: Any questions? Jay, anyEhing?
councilman Johnson: yes, r $rant to know how the kids are enj oying the cigaretternachine. You say your verding machines r€re for the chj.ldren. i don,t "e", I,man anti-snokirg advocate to a point, I donrt see encouraging. I believe gnokers
n 1"{ their own little roqn t}rey go off into and fill each other,s lungs but I
I donrt see at a fanily recreationat facility that r€ should be selling
I .igireEtes. . Ird like to see, if rre're going to consider it, I don't have anyr probrqns with one or tr^ro video machines as long as we don't becqrc a videoarcade utpre the primary trrrpose is to play video garnes. As a sright accessoryto putt-putt, on a hot surmer day ccrne in ard cool off for a while ard play acouple ganes of Donkey Kong or litratever, no big deal to rne but if you siarlgetting l0 or 15 video games in there ard the place turns into a tLnage videohang-out, that's going to be a probran. cigarette machine is definiteiy aproblsn wi th nre .
John pryznus: r have no problan. r don't gnoke and r don't have any problernwith takirg that out. They put thsn in there. r didn,t ask for it.- tt reasIErt of wtrat came $rith the machines.
Counci lman Johnson: You can blame us.
John Prllznus: I^Iell, it don't matter...
Courci lman Johnson: Does that sign need a sign permit or an!.thj.ng Barb?l'lormauy you can get such and such a sign if you have a busiiess ii.gtrtz
Barbara Dacy: Right. A permit r'rour-d be required except vre anended theordinance to alloe, a driving range arll minj.jture golf course. Unfortunately r.Edidnit address in detail of how big the sign shouid be.
a
! courci rman Geving: r think John you made a rot of progress out there. r,mL Pl-".:f. to see it's conring alorg. Ttre few trri rgs tirit-we;".-sot renainirg hereare pretty mlnor. _you aptrErently are *orking tovrards getting those trees inthis faII ard you irdjcated there v,,ere berms there, I6on,t i*n nU". seeing any
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6l
Ci ty Counci f lbeting -lust 22, 1988 (
berms but if that's in the corxlitional use permit, r,re ought to look at that.There sesns to be a differenc€ of opinion between yourseif ard the staff onwhere the berms are or where they shourd be. ncw many video games are there outthere?
John Pryznus: Itrerers foosball and hockey.
l,layor tlamilton: There must be 4 or 5 I su[pose.
coylgi lmal Geving: . $.y, r guess l*ren r.e discussed this vay back vtren !€ r4reretalkirg about tip differerrce between a business having r or'z macnines versus anarcade and r think r^re came up ds, is 6 the rnagic nunber? Do you recall that 6is an arcade?
Barbara Dacy: there are no definitions.
courcilman ceving: okay, r guess rnalbe vre r.rere thinking of that at one time. rdonrt see. any big problsn with the fer., it.,* that r.,e r ve got here. TtE only onethat re did have a lot of discussion over John r.6s the light stardaiils. - rhatthere uasn't to be any rightirg on the facility. r don,t have a real hardfeel ing about that but l.think if .rre,re.going io go that route, re;re going tohave to cqne back ard tark about it again beiause r can see r^rhere that houtdextend your business day. Does it give you another half hour or sonething?
John Pryznus: I'ltrat it does is, in the evening as the sun goes down, before itgets too dark, r wourd assune that, rrve tarked with arr the neighbors and itwill keep it open on a nice evening for another half hour-45 minites ratner tnansunseE-. Basically r've kept my stardards. F100ds up on tle out lights anJ keepthan shinirg down. r'm nor puttirg thqn in a high place rire a uiripaix oranything like that. I wasnrt...
councilman ceving: r think our discussion when r"e talked about rights r,,eresqnethirg far different than what yourve got out there. r think ,6 *..thinking that v,e r.rouldn'|t let John have these big right pores and ioi=-"tploblsns with any neighbors that might obj ect to thal uui r see no objection towhatrs out there now. r dontt have any problem with that tohn excepl- that it,snot on your corditional use permit. That's aI1 I have.
t-
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Counci lman Horn: I guess I don,t have any problern wjth the sign.looks like a reasonable sign for that kird of a business but a{ain,lre should discuss that...
l,tayor Hanilton: That can be discussed through the ordinance process.
Courrcilman Horn: I also agree about the lights. I don'E see anythj.nq. Iherights are mainly in Ehe mini-putt area aren'it they? the rights'ai; ,iuinry ;nthe mini-putt area?
John Pryznus: yes, they follow the path. Ihere are tr^ro rows of trees thatfollor", the pa.th ard they shine towards the mini-putt area...
counci I'man Horn: r rearize r.re didnrt arlow those but again, Dale said re hadenvisioned scmething EotaLly different. r aLso agree that there shourd bevending machines out there. peopre shourd have access to pop. you don,t have
To rne it
I sulposed
62
City Counci I t4eetin.(
any rdater on the site do you?
thing. . .
Like a rater fountain so this is really the only
{
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John Pryznus: Yes, I havenrt.had it hooked up y,et. I do have a... Right nov, Ihave_ the pepsi-cora @npany vrith autcrnatic "ooter. Like r say, the cigarettemachine i{asnrt one of the nrachines that r had brought it. ttre ' veJ ing '
""rrp.rrybrought it in. r didn't order it ard r can have thqn take it out of foiere...As you get the grass to start growing out there ard eventually... As ]rou ccmein there'|s one beEn that's maybe 7 feet high in front of the Luildirrg,'bot
"c[r.of tllat might even... but r will be rrorking on it right on through tf,. r.rr tohopefully. . .
Courcilnran tlcrn: I don't have any problem with anyEhing I see out there. tryonly recqrmerdation rrrcurd be that r think it rourd be bitt.r, ard you nraydisagree with this, to :o're-t9 o: *ith rdt't you']ve done and o.,"',oia alree withit. llhereas to go ahead ard do it before wJget a [Ermit to do it can sqnetiJnescause yourself more grief.
John tryznus: Ihere are scne things that I changed...
oouncilman Boyt: r see where staff recfimends g foot evergreens instead of 6foot.
Barbara Dacy: yes but since the berms are 6 feet, therers a disagreenent so...
councilman Bo].t.: r didn't hear it as a point of disagreenent arorg ttre highway.
John Pryznus: r don'!t think that rould be done... !,rot all of than, everyone isput on the road. The shorter ones will be put inside
courcilman Boyt: r hoIE you're successfur lrith this. r've got to telr you thatit bothers me r"/hen anyorE intentionalry viorates the stardaris the city has setr9r $eir deveLogrent. you rdon t t convince me John that eihen you put ti:ose lightstardards in you thought the city gave you approval to do that. what that meansr:, y9u decided that you're going to do that business the q,ay you need to dothat. brFiness ard then you'lr cone back to the city ard get i$rovar. r don'tthink that's a snart business approach. r think that r*e shourd definiteLy rookat the sign to be sure that it fiLs within the stardard size for signs. rsuspect it does. The right standards, vre need to have those inspecfed by staffto be sule that theyr re directed so they donrt shine on the highiay at all anigood luck. I hotE to get out there ard use it scmetime.
Barbara Dary: Given the courcil s. discussion, r guess what r reuld suggest isg,t g* applicant apply to. amend. his permit regaiding the rj.ght standjids andthe sign issue or tLE Courcil look at a ordinan& arnendnent.
C.ounci lman Boyt: I think hle should consider hours of operati.on too.
I"rayor Hamilton: yes, I think John should cone back, hours of operation, lightstandards ard the trees.
John pryzmus: I'11 bring that up to staff thj.s rEek.
63
August 22, 1988
City Council l4eeri ng { Surt 22, LggB {1,
I4ayor framilton:
a part of that.rBernie: r have not been forlowing this but r am wondering why the restrictionis praced on a businessman to hava restricted hours when [ne compet:.tioncertainry dictates that putt-grtt courses, their best hours are i.rn-aiog to16:00 at night. r'm worxrering $rhy his position is so "niqr"-il.i-; Inoura naveto restrict him frcrn sunrise to sunset?
lhyor Hamirton: I'rhen we first rooked at this Bernie, John had a hand drawn pranthat he brought in here ard. the neighbors objected to it. r,{e tried to work withJohn all the vray
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through this proceis arxl itis been kind of one frusirationafter another ard just as it occurs now he's got rights o"i tt.."-tn [-L.. notapproved and be goes ahead and prts thsn up tfrere wi tnout getting pennissi.onfron the city- rf he wants to have rights out there, he sfroura ilre in herewlth-a ela! like anlbody- else thatr s going to try to do sqnething. Tto iust goahead ard do it, like Birl says, thatis not the ;ight Hay to do ii. -iti= ,"=severar years ago when the first plan came arong and r.re said we r€renrt going toallow hi:n to have the high pore starrJards arxl af that tirne was when r.re saidsunrise to sunset roould be his operation. so r think since ttrat ii'me-.ronn nastarked with the neighbors ard they have seen that it's not goint to L- ti,unuisance that they thought it was going to be but he,s got [o "&n" back to uswith an amended plan to try ard chirge- it.
John Pryznus: ...I have r"iorked with the neighbors...
councilman Johnson: vihen you started tarking about your water systsn, r hoIEyou. realize that lrhen you start serving that r^rater to lEople, ei Lner in trratmachine or in that water fountain, you have created a lubiic'wate. -"ppry oystate taw and you have to do cerEain !,,ater quality tests on that on a- ioutinebasis- Yourll need to coordinate that with the county Hearth DeparEnent. you,ll,
need to do that and fire your reports of this. At one of *y .rrlr prants r workwith, they have one coffee machine that is hooked up to wat6r, otheiwiie theyhave bottled water ever)4)lace. !G got stuck because you have more than 25qnployees there, as a publ ic water supply systqn. So you,re in the same boatthere so watch out for that one.
I,layor Hamilton: He hasn't hooked it up yet.
C-ounci lman Johnson: Itts a fairly sj.mple test and 1 think they,re probablygoing to be annual tests, I,m not sure. Our test requires to L on[ a-yeartesting for bacteria and that kj.nd of stuff.
L
l4ayor Hamil ton moved, Councilman Geving seconded to table review of the B,,rznusDriving Range ard Mi.niature Colf Course untj.l a plan j.s brought back withadditional information. AII voted in favor arxl the motion carried.
REQUEST EOR KENNEL PERMIT, 1630 [,AKE LUCY ROAD, PHIL MATHIOI^IEIZ.
Jim chaffee: I'tr. I''tathiowetz is here who is the appricant for the kenner permit,He is here because we've had ccmplaj.nts frorn a nej.ghbor, l,lr. Krueger, ra,trich I,msure counciL is well aware of since he was serd irq arr the informition on the t
64
So we need to t^hle this until, oh and the sign also should be
-.iF.
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City Council lteeting - ltrovqnber L6, LggT
@uncilman Johnson:
anl ^ray.
be willing to sulT)ort a situation in which he wour.d grant the city aneasement- If tie city wants to build a trair on both sides ot cn't7, r thinkwe should be willirg to pay for it but r,d rike to have that option ivairatreto us. r think that saves t4r. patton's feel ing that itrs costi;r-B;'--development money because you're simpJ-y giving us an easement arrl yet itprotects tie abirity of the city to cqrq back- and build a tr.ii iai"i.--
@u,ci lman Boyt: what we agreed to tle other evening was that !,tr. patton wour-dbuild tle trail on both sides of cR 17 arr r ttrinx park ard Rec said that ifhe chose not to buird it,.there would be a reduction i" ti," t iii" r."". rthink since then we have ircrease the amount oi- t."i.r" ,e'rre i"iJ lril p"tto.,to build in ttris devero;xnent and quite possibry it,s reasonabi. to i"r io, u.,easqnent.
I thought that was what the park arrl Rec was asking for
ASA
tSe, zuo
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J.'REVIE'!{ SWINGS RECREATION PROJECT.-JOHN PRYZMUS ,.APPLICANI:
ZONING ORDIM}CE AMENDMEMT 10 II\ICLUDE GoLE DRIVING BANGESeo$-rrroueElSE-elroffi raruneGor.FCouRsEes-an-ft cffi ffi
^r,O f ilUii neeOrlrC-
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B. APPRO\AL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT DOCI'MENT.
Barbara Dacy: r do need.a crarification on one of the proposed corrlitions ofthe conditional use permit b:t-as !o,the zoning oraina;. ;.rri.;; - th"C-ouncil needs to act on the 2nd arrl fj_nal read ing on the zonirg ordinanceamendment to aLl-oh, gorf driving ranges as a corditionar use with or withoutmlnrature golf as an accessory use. The five corditions th"a th"-co;;Jir putin their motion from May 4, 1987- rtre courrit-approved the conditionar usepermit ard also acted to deny the wetrard atteraiion permit so tii"-coun"iineeds to authorize execution of the conditional use permit which staff hasprepared in Attachnent *2. If r c,.uld review briefliy on" oi tr.,. .oJiiior".On the graphic here rhe lip bI*, if you wiII, is the \,retlanC area in thenorthwest corner of the site._ the oringe area is where the *i"i"tri" irrcourse is going to be located. ttre gra| area is where the parkinq area isproposed to be then there was a smarr clubhouse bui ld irg riulJ-'t ...I- mi.cotored square is the proposed barting building at thab time. tt" Gitingbuildirg was not approved as part of [fre corgi dional use permit ard this areaover here represents the septic system sites ualu".ni to -cu-rpin iira..'^'rt i=site pran shown here was_submi t-bed_ in conjunction with the lardscapinq pranard.that Iandscaping plan is proposed to -l= tf,"- in=tau;iio;-;;-;;#L: ofdeciduotrs rrees ard also proposed construction "f ;.;-;;;;. iiilr,"Iil='represented i.n green- the apprican-t ar.so proposed r"n inl-u.ouJ d! *ti."perineter of rt!-- sire as wer-l as a fencre uiorrt tl,e ili;d;-;; ,n'i'iilpuaa
19
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courcilman BorrE moved, courcilman Horn seconded that the applicant provide aneasement on one side of county Road u for the future devei6pnent oi-i-lrait,to be builr by rhe city, if a trair on both sides of county foad rzls almeonecessary. A1I voted in favor ard motion carried.
o.1 c.
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C ity Courci I |,teetj n9 - Novan)cer 15,L987
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area. So the corditional use permit has been designed to folLow up on theelements. that was represented by the applicant on h-is "rt" piun una-' -"
J'ardscaping pran. rn number I the firsc permit requir"" "uu*i="ioi or urevised grading pran showing the. limits 6f graaing,- *"thod;;i;;J=i.i-n controrard irdicatirq the revised location of the farkin{'rot a.n "ruurrou"..*' e. porecall, the applicant had originalry intended in iltering ti,e ,etial area arxlcrea.irg a pord back here ard to lower the erevation "r irc tiri-... in trri=area for the construction of a batting buirding. since the ,ueiiana-.rlrationpermit was denied ard since tlre batti.g buildirg vras not included in theapproval, the appricant has changed his prans so ttrrt we wourd rite to
-reauce
the size of the hill in this area arrl se"ord of a1I, if you wili .*.if,carver county had a condition that the setback area for trr" pu.ring -iJ
"ndthe crubhouse buiJ.dirq be measured fx.,a Lgg feet from the ce-nter ri.re "tGalpin Bryg.. r aporogize to t],e applicant arso and to the counci 1, uut ttreway that first cordition shourd read is wittr the 50 foot structure setback inthe A-2 district, the first condition shourd read, indicating tir. .""ifurocation of the -parkirg rot anl clubhouse r50 feet from the 6enter iine ot cnLLt. r'na E wourd take rnto accomodation t].e additional, right-of-way needed forcR 117 as welr as the 50 foot setback. r think that was iiscussed'ali atong.r made an error in the footage from the center rine of carpin er.,rd..-- Th" sire
S^-*^1.:Itlg 19! wa.s primarity based on the use of the bittirq lotrai.,s.Provlded on the pran here is clnstruction of 92 strEces. rtre uaiting buitdingis not beirq incruded, there is no reason to L*- *rat size of i -Gixi"g r.tso what the first condition is saying is that the plan should shoi the ievisedlocation of.the parkirg rot arrl rr: lit<e to add the revised size ard locationo!.the parking lot and clubhouse so that the applicant is proposinq-to-i.ar""this in size, rhat's fine. Finatty, rhe plan irnicatea rdt ;h" E.;i.[ ..".was to be bituminous and again r apologize, that should have been speciiiea inthe first conlition there. A1so, the ord inance does require ttrat aii-parxingareas. should be l]ned by corcrete curb arso so the counJi J. may want to'discussthat in more detail tonight but in order to match our ordinanle, u ".nt..,.=shourd be added that the pa.rking shall be paved and lined with concrete curb.The secord conlition was.commented on the previous staff report back in ttaythat in order to be consistenE with our landscaping ordinanice. 6 fooLevergreens ard 2 foot evergreens should be praced between the parking areasard GalFin Blvd-. rtre proposed fercing of the site, tl.e appriiant iiaicateato me-that iE would be approximately 5 feet ard it shourd not exceed our 6teet in conformance with our ordinance. Mlmber 4 and 5 really go together.As you recall, the bathrooms r^rere to be located in the battirq building area.Tte appricanE has found a better rocation for mound s)rstems oier in this area.rf the batting buirding.is no lorger there, the bathrooms are to be placed inthe clubhouse, the applicant's has a couple of options. fe can eith6r pumpthe effluent to a septic system site to the north, instarr a hording tairx orinstall temporary satetrites on t},e prolErty so what staff is recomierrJ ingthat if the sepEic systern sites are not to be used, then r^re recommerrjlnstallation of a hording tank rather than instarlation of satelrites. rn anycase however, we want to insure that septic system sites are protected out inthe field arrl are not altered in case they are removed o. r=.ded bv th"applicant. If.the ag)licant is to install a holding tank, then t# cogf ofthe clntract with a licensed pum5Er stlould be proviaed. Six, the app:.icant
9!3!] compfy with all the requirements of the Watershed Distiict, rl'sn ardwiLdrife ard D,rR- Because the applicant wirl Lre sutrnitting . ."ri="a giaaing
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I Plar,t, the watershed Distrj.ct approval wiII be necessaly in that case. TtreI apprrcant will- have to receive their authorization. Ncw, as to the wetlandalteration permit, @uncir action again eras to deny that on May 4, r9g7. Theappricant is proposing to prant grass seed in this area on a regular basis inorder to pick up the balls from the tee area. Because this area has beenfarmed in the tEst on a consistent basis, staff did not feel trat prantinggrass seed periodicalry would be adverse to the wetlard areas. we prepar& atErmit to allow seeding of the site. rf that is not consGient with what thecouncir feels was their action on I'tray 4, 1gg7, then that needs to becorrectd. ld:mber g, to insure compretion of 'the grading iroprorrern".,ts and theparkirg lot improvements ard so on, we ask that tt; "ppricani submit a retterof credit in the amount of ugB. ltre courril discussii ai ttre tast meetingard made a cordition the zoning ordinance amendment to include tlre u- tha[the hours of operation would be from sunrise to sunset and therefore therewourd be no rightirg unr.ess that was a specific cord ition of approvar.Finally, there is an outstarding bill inclurred by M;. ldhr;ier arri Mr.Anderson- werre requirirg that be paid ard it an aaaitionJ- review wourd benecessary for the mourd septic. system sites beyoni our current staff, thatrdourd be necessary that a cordition that those -fees wourd be paid by tleappr icant arso and that is consistent with arr oi ooi ippr i""nts for any ofour subdivision or any tlpe of applicant in the rural aiia.
Mayor Hamilton: I can think of one question offhand. you said we wanted to! F:i a.! .1i t!:f* I guess r don't recatt thar in the rural area for anyI :yp". of ? Ee rike -this and r guess the only one r can think of that wourd be: ..rrry srmrlar would be the mini-storage area. r don't bel ieve that wer requ r red curb and gutter in ttnt area.
P::= T": For Mr. Brolrnrs there was I bel ieve the main access drives,tngress ard egress points to the develolment.
I\rayor Hamilton: Right but not the whore, r^rhat you would consider the parkingarea.
Barbara Dacy: Right- lbnight r was irrlicating that the curbing and thepa.virq ard the bituminous issue was not even discussed at trle }4ay 4thmeeting. r rras nerery pointing out that our ordinance requiils it. thatpaved be lined with concrete curb so you're consistent with the ordinance.
Mayor rhmilton:
.cx<ay ard r was just questioning that wondering if that'sconsistent with what we do in the rural area. r1 that's whai our ord inance$ys, I guess that surprises ne.
Barbara Dacy: staff has been crcnsistent in recommending that that beinstalled.
Mayor 'amirton: rrm sure you tnve but my question is still the same. rs itthe ordinance that it rrpuld be installed in tte rural areas?
Barbara Dacy: your question, have you approved it in t}le past?
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Mayor Hamilton: No, does it say that in the ordinance? That rural areas putin parking for whatever use you,re going to use, you have to have curb artlgutter .
Barbara Dacy: the ord inance. does not speci fy if itrs urban or rural. rt saleif you have a parking area, it has to be paved ard you have to have aon"rat"curb.
Mayor Hamilton: Alright, so thatrs something that the courrcil could decidewhether or not r.re want to have that right? staff is recommerd irg that theapplicant do Blt that in. Irm also curious about the wetlarrl noi. Thedrawirg that lDu were showing us -there ard the portion in green is suEposedly
Barbara Dacy: We asked the applicant at that time, what we use as thedefinition of edge of the wetrarrl is where the reed grass vegetation startsard stops. That was one factor because the reed grasl was piedominant in thisarea. the other reference that we used was the official ctrinhassen wetrards
map that was on file. This part of the area does reflect on the contourthatrs located on the $retlards map.
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lEyor Hamilton: What class wetlard r^ras that?
Barbara Dacy: It was a 1\pe II, Class B.
l4ayor Hamilton: Is Ehat the l-owest grade you can get?
Barbara Dacy: There's \pe I which is the lowest.
l'layor Hamilton: so itrs next to the lowest ard that area had been farmed foryears if I remember correctly. I stil-I, in being consistent with what I,vesaid in the past, I don't believe tha!'s a wetlard ard I would like to see
some evidence if it is. r think the appricant ought to be allowed use in thatarea. It may have been a wetlard at one time and John filled iL Right orwrong itrs something that's been done. I think that he's said that ai ttratfar north erd of that there is a pord or he would construct a porri that couldbe used as a wetLard or as a retentioo area for runoff to go into the creek.I would prefer to see that done since he's filled the area already, all,o$, himto use it. I guess I have stated that previously and I still feel the same!ray. I think anybody r.rould have a hard time going out there ard I don't careif it's Mrs. Rockwell or our staff and proving that that is in fact a wetland.I don't think there's any evidence out there. Do council members have anyquestions of the staff?
@urcilman Horn: one of the things that we requested $rhen we reviewed this
Last time was to get a general poliql on allowing this type of use from the
Planning Commission. I didn't see any record that they had given us aguideline on this issue.
Barbara Dacy: As I interpretted the Minutes after reviewing them, that topic
was discussed but then I bel ieve it was @uncilman cevirxl sayirg you have to
decide on a particular issue at hand tonight and that two rnolionJ occurrd.
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so that item has not been brought back to the ptanning commission for reviewgiven Council's action.
councilman Horn_: rf you read further in the Minutes it said that, yes ere hadto act on this issue this evenirg but part of our probrem witrr aciifo tnatevening was t},at we didn't.hav9 the guideline anA wnat we said i., dui ,eshourd go back ard get a guideLine as to what tytE of uses we should alrow arrlwhere we should alrow rhem and what kinl of criieria r. "torrJ poi;;ih.*ki.rds. of uses- specifically the issue of the batting u.." n"J "-rrl
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that is not addressed anywhere. we arso described ti:e fact tt,.a- i; fru-reaaour ordinance it doesnrt;rlow a gorf -or=" ..rlpr"cre in the city wiihout aconditionar use [Ermit. That was another one ot- th" issues t}at' we ,.nt"d toaddress ard brought back to us for us to act on. Nor,, we come back to thisissue again ard we don't have any further recommerxiation" o. ""v-i"iit"isui$3n9e on this thins ard it seems rike we,ve rost a rot of tim:" where wecourd have been making a poricy on that so orce again instead oi p.oi"ti"",$ie're retroactive.
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Barbara Dacy: r guess r disagree because the five conditions that the @uncileventually approved were ttE specific recommerdations of the pranning
commission ard they made a specific statement saying that u* b.ttiG buirdingof the commerciar recreationar uses was not appr6priate in tte iurii "r"u.Put they did distinguish bethreen driving ..ng.i afo m;.niaiu."-g-iilo"i""".They decrined to act on ttre. gorf course -issud because that $ras -not brought ,4)t9 them at that point artlrough r recarl that the pranning commission aia saythat they would alr agree that a golf course should be airowed in the ruralarea. Basically what the counci I has approved was the pranning commissionreconmerda t ion.
courcilman Horn: rhat's true but what we arso asked for was that the issue ofgolf courses in general be addressed in terms of our overalr ord inancE arll rdonrt bel ieve it has-
Barbara Dacy: yes, they have not addressed that but r guess r stilr don,tunderstard how that issue wourd rerate to Mr. pryzmusr a-ppr ication beca,se rdon't. think the_ driving range and miniature gtir--o."" i! crearry a aistinctuse than a golf course.
Courcilman Horn: What youtre telling us is that tiere is no anomaly to theordinance to date- That this is a v6ry cr,ear cut issue frcro our ordinance.
Barbara Dacy: Ihe Council _acted to approve the planning Commissionrecommerdation for the gorf driving ranges ard miniaturl goii ;;i;.". Theydid not. address a golf course issue at itt.
Councilman Horn: I understard that. Based on the current ordinance?
Barbara Dacy: Right.
counci rman Johnson: As r.said in May, r think $re shourd allow at reast theseed irg in that area to make the area usefur. r do not think we =touia m.xemajor grading changes ro r}rat area. rr srill, wirh rhe ;;;;. ""Ji;Sl wirr.
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function as a nutrient drain the wetrard area. rhis is another example of howthe ttr 5 corridor there needs to be looked at. we are in tir.f pi"..'""] rguess rookirg at the entire downtown to rrl 41 as part of our coi!r"i,""!i""p1an.
John pryzmus: As far as if I can t.ve it, vrhatever you decide as far as thecurbirg we can go ahead ard do that but lrhat t workeJ wi*l staff ls atier tte1r inches of rain, r went dovrn trere ard mowed tlat area a week ard a halflater ard there wasntt even any water there so rrm not worried auout rirtingin the wet area at arr. me thing rhat r wourd like io p;;p.;"-i;-th;-batring
cage or our proposar there was a batting building. tt wis Jonsistent with my
f.r*l.i!g ard that project was...to make it fina-nciarly reasiuie. --
i- n*eatbe battirg cage or the.indoor gol,f ard batting. as fi as trre aensiiy or thearea crincides with miniatu:e golf arri driving range. Also, when leopie areu-sirq tla!! they wontt rearry gb off the site -so if r coura'reconsiJ"I-io .aathat building as a utility building, that wourd be the only thing. other than
Pu!, r wonrt be doirg anything in the 1ow, lanl at arr oth6r thai seed ing it.As far -as the grading permit, that goes along with the miniature qofi ;w andwe rronrt put any fiu in the row area, werrl just knock down the 6ne ui anajust pr.rsh it to the back-. - rhere wilr be a veiy minimum u*""nt or-gi.;i;g -.the site. So if you would
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reconsider allowirg having a utility luiiai"g tomake it financialty feasible. . .
Mayor Hamilton: Ihat's an entirely separate issue. I guess if you want thatto be reconsidered, you'll have to brirq it back at anoiher timel Do you haveany probrems with the corrlitions r through lo that were outrined by thlcorrlitional use permit? ltere those corrlitions acceptable to you?
John Pryznus: the curbing and?
City Counci I Meeting - Novernber 15; 1987
Mayor Hamilton: There are I0 condj.tions.
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llave you had a chance to review
John Pryzrtus: I didn ' t.
Counci lrnan Bol.t: Did you fill in the wetland?
John Pryznus: Yes, I filled in IErt of it.
@unci lman Boyt: Did you have a permit to do that?
John Pryanus: there isnrt any wettard on the property. I have a letter fromthe DNR statirg ttEt it's not a protected wetlard.
Courcilman Boyt: WeIl ttre City considers it a wetlands and you filled it jn
without a permit, is that correct? I just rrant to get a cleir status on howwe lost the wetland. My urderstarriing is we Lost the wetland because youfilled it in.
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tl4ayor tlamilton: That,s correct.
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City Oourci I lGeting - Novsnber T6, Lg87
Councilman Bol.t: What ]ou're basically askirg to do with the wetlards and
r.rhat the City proposes is a wetland, is to seed it, mow it, treat it like anyothe! piece of grourd. I would like to ask the staff, is this going to impeleit's ability to do wtEt it,s doing nolr?
Barbara Dacy: When Dr. Rockwell visited the site last spring, she commentedthat the area is really not acting as a good ptace for habitit which is one ofthe criteria for a wetlard. rtrs main function was serving as an arel forrecharge and a storm water retention area before it gets to a creek along thenorttr side of the proEErty. staff felt that because there was goirg to be noadditionar fill or arteration of the property, that it would continie to remaintained the way it was in the last severai years, that we felt that theseeding rdould not affect that function at all.
councilman Boyt: No!., r heard somethirq about an offer to build a pord on theproperty as a holding pord. r think that's a reasonabre offer ard we shouldtake 1ou r-{) on that.
Barbara Dacy: ttnt was part of the originar wetland alteration permit requestthat eras denied by the Council so if you,re proposing to do that] he wouldhave to reapply for that.
councilman Boyt: lbvJ are you proposing ard how r.rourd you l-ike to arter thatwetlard any differently than what )Iou propose to do novr?
John Pryanus: you means as far as building a ponl?
councirman Bo1rc': No, as far as the particurar wetrard. rs that where you areproposing to build your pond?
John Eryznus: yes it r"ould be down at the erd of the road area-
councilman Boyt.: Alright, so what other kirds of charges were you proposingto make in the retland?
John Pryznus: A11 r v,ant to do is just tike r have there on the ser,rer.
Councilman Botrt: Do we have- any difficuler with him improving the wetlard?we seem.to have set a precedent indicating agreement to do thlt before. werrJay, maybe when it gets to be your turn you can comment on that. Then theother situation r have is-_on thg parkinj tot. As I read the ;rlin;;;, it,s aIittl.e di fferent rhan sraff is-.inierpretling it. It says on trEge L247; iamultiple family, business, office ant indusirial distritts. 'we-,re-noi'i., ..,yof those so it does state that a [Erson needs to have some sort of do"t fa*.arl weather surface anl c'oncrete curbing. rtrs rear specific as to rrhere inthe city r',e can require that. r bel iev6 this is an ag-ricurtural aisi;i;t?
l4ayor Hamilton: It, s A-2.
Counci lman Ebyt: I think given the surface area, it probaby makes sense toFrt a concrete curb arourd this but r don't think the city -ord inance requiresit- r think itrs kind of c.ommen sense if you're going to- p.t a hard suiface
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City Courci I l€eting - Novsnber 16, 1997
on that much grourd to have some means of controlling the runoff from that.
So to kind of summarize r^rhere Irm at right now, on the wetlarri, if you,regoirg to improve it, I can certainly be convinced that gradirg ard seed ing isappropriate since it doesnrt seem to interfere with what itrs doing novr. On
ttre curbing, I'm okay with goirg on the curbirq whichever $ray llou want becauseour ord inance doesn't require it as I read it. lbwever, I would ctertainlyIook favorably upon puttirg concrete curbirg arourd your parking area. Mybiggest @rcern is that werre sitting in an agricultural area and we areproducing what I think is goirg to be a tlemendous traffic generator. Acollector into this [Erticular spot. B]siness Week in the tast month had anarticle that irdicated that miniature golf courses are doirg quite well. Ithink we see an example of that on IH 7 and 1'I{ I0I and I think we should viewthis as a prmanent structure ard not as a temporary stlucture until somethingbetter comes along. I don't l(rpw that werve done a traffic study. lhve we
done a traffic stud]?
Barbara Dacy: lb lve have not for this.
Councilman BoyE: I gather that we're saying werre preparirg to approve
something that I think will generate a great deal of traffic. Is a county
study done?
Barbala Dacy: the County has reviewed the site plan. Their recommendation
was that the access be located 3gg feet to the north of the intersection.
Councilman Boyt: Maybe tEople i^rho are more famiLiar with that lErticularintersection than I an can add to more that.
Barbara Dacy: we do have books upstairs from the Institute of Traffic
Engineers that estimate the amount of traffic to be generated from miniaturegolf courses and retail uses and so on. I think when we went to throrryh tl:e
process last spring the major concern r^ras the batting building because that
would generate more traffic on a consisten! basis. Ihe miniature golf coursetraffic vrould be seasonal in nature. Peak periods would be on Saturday ard
Surday arri evenings.
Counci lman Boyt: You're saying when the traffic load would terrf to be Iighter
on TH 5r this...
Barbara Dacy: It's considerably less than a retail use or commercial
recreational use.
Courci lman Bol,t: You don't consider this to be comparable with a retail use?
Mayor Hamil.ton: I guess if we did a traffic study it would probably show us
what we already know and thatis that TH 5 is overused and if we have another
use along tle highway it's going to continue to overload it some more. I have
no other cqments on the tr.Io proposd itsns before us.
@uncilman Bol.t: ltEn we're saying we make this amerr*nent that anyone in the
agricultural area can come in and apply for a miniature golf clurse and a golf
drivirg range?
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layor Hamilton: Right, as a corditional use.
Councilman Boyt: erd basically we can only turn down a cronditional userequest rrhen there is some overridirg concern. we can't do it because thereighbors don't want it there?
!'layor Hamilton: corditionar use has alrmys given us a great dear of ratitude.
Boger Knutson: you have a good discretion on it. you canrt turn it dordnbecause the neighbors donrt like it. Itrey frown on tlnt. you have toexercise your own judgment.
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l,layor lhnilton: thatrs true BiIl. UhforturEtely thatrs the case.
Councilman Horn: I believe that one of the requirements vre put on here isthat it be located adjacent to a najor road with an off strelt access.
councilman Johnson: From a corlector or an arterial. liot just an off-streetaccess.
Councilman Horn: I{trich will limit it to sqne degree.
councirman Johnson: rhere arenrt that many sites wbo courd deveJ.op this. vtlespecified IH 5 ard tH 2L2.. We,re not opening this up to the entiri a_2district.
l{ayor Hamilton moved, counci lman Hcrn secorried to approve the zoning ordinance
Amendment Request *92-4 to amerd Alticle v, Section 3(4) to allow golf driviirgranges with or without miniature gold courses as a conditionar usi in the A-2,Agricurturar Estate District ard to amend Alticle v, section 9(14) to arrowstandards for gol,f driving ranges with or without miniature gorf courses:
1. the Iocation of the driving range is limited to being adjacent toTH 5 and TH 212 ard access must be from a co[ector or aiterial whichleads to TH 5 or TH 2L2.
2. fburs of olEration shall be frqn sunrise to sunset.
3- Provision of adequate parkirg areas anr submission of rardscapingplan in conformance with Article VIII of the Zoning O,rdinance'.
4. tlo site shall be Iocated within 500 feet of a single famiLyresidence.
5- the buirding to be construct€d on any site wourd be a maximum of g00square feet ard shalL be painted in earth tones.
AI1 voted in favor and motion carried.
lrayor Hamilton: rtem b is to a[x)rove the corditionar use hrmit document.Tte applicant has said that he hasn'|t reviewed the r0 items. rs there amotion to hardle item 5(b)?
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City Courcil l4eeting - Novqnlcer 16, 1987
Counci lman Johnson: Did ttle applicant get this?
Mayor llamilton: I don't think so. Yourve been working with him rather
closely, it's hard to bel ieve he hasn't.
Barbara Dacy: I know t}e packet was sent out to you on Friday. you have not
received it?
John Prlanus: Irve been out rrcrking at tlte site so I haven't gotten my mail.
Barbara Dacy: It was sent to the Saratoga Drive address.
Councilman Johnson: Vlhi Ie ',rc have a sJ.ight break here, BiIl was talking abouttle wetlards down there. By improving the wetlards, I do have a slight
opinion on that. If we're not building the batting cage, which at this time
we arenrt, our amount of impervious surface beirg added to the area areminimal. lbe amount of increase runoff that wouLd require an increased
holdirg pord should be minimal. If we can keep that area as an infiltration
area versus a holding pord area, I personally believe it $ould be best served
to keep it in the s.rme use as what nature has it now. t'lot necessarily making
a holding pord in a wetlani is an improvernent to the wettand in my opinion.
Certain wetlards have certain gfposes. this wetlanl ard the area adjacent toit appears to be a infiltration area. t nfortunately therers about a foot ofdirt in many areas on top of vrhat used to be the wetlands but I think if we
dug deep enough we would find the $retland that was there. At this time, if we
had approved the other buildirg there, then I would be insisting r-pon a
holding pond to slow down the runoff going into tlre creek there but at this
time I don't think there's a great need to try to improve that wetLard. When
you try to improve something, you someti.mes may screw it up.
Councilman Johnson: Aesthetically yes but hydraulically Irm not sure if the
improvement wilt be any differenE. I havenrt seen any facts or figures to sayit. As an area of infiltration anl recharge of grourd water, it will continue
furction as such. You l)lt it in as a pord ard we have a better mosquito
breed irg area.
CourEilman Boyt: Ttre hold ing pord isn't in the condition in the cordition asit stands. I wouLd like to see it put in. I think it could help it improve .
Mr. Prrzmus seems be willing to put it in. Is it acceptable to amend the
wetlard alteration prmit?
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Courci Iman Johnson: !& denied it .
Barbara Dacy: If you wanted to provide for a corditional use permit, you
could include it in cordition number I by saying, submission of a revised
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Councilman Horn: Itrs already broken.
Mayor tlamilton: But itrs broken like Clark says. It could be improved I
would think dramatically because if you walk back there there's nothing there
ard it could be improved to be sqnethi.ng.
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City Council l4eeting - Novqnber 16, 1987
gradirg plan by December lst irdicatirg Iocation of a holdirg pord.
Mayor Hamilton: I guess I was thinki.ng of the same thing but I $rould like to
see John be encouraged to come back ard request a wetlard alteration permit
again showing what he's going to do with the pond. I guess Ird kirxl of fiXeto see because you at one time agreed that you r,rould do that. Just improvetjre pord in tJ:e north end. Then we would have some idea of what it,s going tolook like ard what he,s goirg to do because I think you would still 1i[e tohave a permit.
John Pryzmus: r'm working lrith Biu Ergerhardt right now arri werre working onthe chargewer from the filred in areas to put a pord in there ard have hiriard the DUR decide how big ard !,rhether tley tnink it should be there.
!,tayor tlamil ton: Okay, ard then that could be a pa.rt of your request for awetlard alteration permit coning back to us at another time.
John Pryzmus: It $rould be nice to have that as a cordition if yourd let mehave my batting building.
l,tialor Hamilton: Itrere's no reason, if you want you can ask for both of thoseagain. I can't tell you to or not to but if thatis sornething you want to do,tllatrs something you have to decide if you want to come back arri request, oneor either or both, that's tp to you to rnake that request.
Counci lman Johnson: John, do )rou liant this pond?
John Pryzmus: I think as far as from tlre area, the pord isn't goirg to hurt
me.
Courcilman Johnson: What about ttre septic systems? you talked about ttEconversion there to a holdirg tank versus a leptic systern.
Barbara Dacy: rdo, therers nc cbange proposed with that. conditions 4 ard 5rqnain the same.
Courci lrnan Horn : Ilb could include an asphal t curb.
Counci lman Johnson: I prefer to get sheet flow off of the parking area.
Mayor Hamilton: r would too. r don't know that much about water runoff butit would -seem that if you have water runnirg off, don't you decrease theamount of velocity coming off of an area by doing that. That's what werreallialls _ tryirg to do.
Barbara Dacy: That be addressed arxl reviewed by staff.
l4ayor Hamirton: rt seems -like we arways talk about decreasing tlre vetocityard tiat roul-d seem like rhat might do tlnt. Maybe it doesn'i, i aonii-t-or.
@urlcilman Horn: I€trs leave off everyEhirq with curbs.
29
5) tr r-^AaJaJ -
r
II
It
((
City CounciJ. l,teeting - Novqnber 16, 1987
Gary Warren: tle'll look at that with the plans that cqrc in.
l4ayor ttr nilton: I guess I'd be curious to know if it does or doesn,t.
Councilman Horn moved, l,layor ttamil ton seconded to approve the Corrlitional Use
Permit Document as presented with the following amendment to the first
cordition:
I
t
t
t
I S:hnission of a revised grading plan by Decenber l, l9g7 showing the
proposed limits of gradirg, methods of erosion control where
necessary, irdicating the revised size ard location of the parkingIot ard club house ard I50 feet from the centerl ine of County RoadI17, ard proposd berm areas arourd the Frtting green and miniaturegolf course area. Tte parkirg lot shall be paved. Cier Staff shatl
reviel, and approve said plan prior to activity occurr ing on the site.
AII voted in favor ard motion carried.
CONSIDERATION OE ALLOI^IING HUNTING NORTH OF TH 5, DNR CONTROLLM GOOSE HUNT.
l,layor Hamilton: We've had an oEportunity to see one of these previously ard
Jim has made some recommendations to us. reading through Jim's
recommendations saying the ultimate solution though may be the elimination of
hunting all together within ttp city limits of Ganhassen I couldnrt agreewith less. I donrt think that's the ultimate solution at aII. There are
areas in the city where you can hunt estEcially around Rice Marsh take or
swamp or whatever you call it. There are a number of areas south of TH 5 that
are certainly acceptable for shotgun hunting of birds ard fowl but tErhaps not
any lorger of deer. Although there is enough open slEce so I think slug
hunting is probably pretty safe also but to get to the real problem, these dog
golre geese. Personally I guess, unless everybody r4rants a report from Jim, I
would really like to see us just say no hunting north of TH 5 period. Whetherit's a special, hunt or non-special hunt so you don't run inEo the same
problans r.re did last time. Ihat was a mess.
Councilman Boyt: I think that we have a tremendous problem with the geese inthis city. As much as I Iike to see them fly, I understand that a good many
people dontt like to see them on their yard ard vrhat they leave behird. I
would think that it is a difficult issue where vre allow people to hunt north
of TH 5. I agree with you by the tray on hunting south of TH 5. I think that
there are still some areas where people should be able to hunt in Chanhassen
given tte level of develolment as iE is right now. I would like to see us
Look at some sort of reasonable gnrideline ttrat l,lr. Chaffee coul-d use in doing
a prelj.minary screell on a request. whether itrs north or souEh. I would
think sonrething in the neighborhood of I'ggg yards frcrn any hcrne.
l4ayor Hamilton: Eeet or yards?
@uncilman Boyt: l'lo, yards. The reason I say yards is because thatrsbasically ttp maximun carrying disEance of a shotgun. It's not going to carry
there with any ability to do anything. @ntlemen, I can assure that if you
3g
(
Planning Commission Meet i ngApriL 22, 1987 - page 27
{
configuration of the roadways
Commission for review.
that that come before the etanning
AII voted in favor and motion carried.
Siegel moved, Headla seconded thatapproval of the Wetland Alterationconditions:
the Planning Commission recommendPermit *87-6 vrith the fotlowing
1- The class A r,retland shall be preserved by a conservation easemeotestablished at 75 feet from the ordinary high water mark.
The applicant shaII
areas throughout the
areas.
provide drainage easements over the pondingsite and not aLlow any alteration to the
All voted in favor and motion carried.
Erhart: can you exprain what item nurnber 2 in your recomnendation means.
Olsen: What they are providing, in what they caII a storm r.raterIrm just making sure that they definitely provide easements overthat those are protected areas so they wonrt be altered.
easement,
that and
Erhart: AI tered?
Olsen: Such as mowing the lawn.
SWI NGS RECREAT I ON ,LOCATED ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF HIGHWAY 5 CO. RD.II7, JOHN PRYZMUS,APPLICANT:
A. ZONING ORDINANCE AI"TENDMENT REQUEST TO AMEND THE A-2, AGRICULTURAL
AND
ESTATE DISTRICT TO ALLOW GOLF
COURSES AND INDOOR BATTING BU
DRIVING RANGES, M INIATU RE GOLF
B MINIATURE
C. WETLAND ALTERATION PERM I T REQUEST TO FILL IN LA cc I WETLAND.
rr.orucs as a conorTrbEEr,-EsE-l
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR A GOLF DRIVING RANGE,
BUILDING.
Dacy presented the staff report on the zoning ordinance Amendment
Where else would a gol-f driving range be in the city?
L
Barbara
request.
Conrad:
not listed in any other commercialgolf driving range is not aCity of Chanhassen.
Dacy: Currently a golf driving range isdistricts so basicall.y a golf course orpermitted or conditional use within the
{Commission Meeting
1987 - Page 28
{Planning
April 22,
Conrad: Can you refresh my memory why thati.rhere we specifically said we did not wanthave a hard time recalling thaE.
1S?
tha t some
a rea
notes
and I
area.
those
Irn looking atin agricultural
Dacy: what happened was, during the zoning ordinance review processseveral times in rg85 and 19g6- The Btuff creek gorf "orr". now isconforming use as a golf course but we do recal1 discussion that thecommission did have probrems with a golf driving ..rg" l"- the ruralYou didn't think it was appropri.ate. rt created some- traffic arongroads so.it wasn't approved a- a part of the new orainance-ttrus trreappl ication.
we met
a non-
Conrad: John, you are the applicant. Specificall,y John lre,re talking onthe zoning and before you-teLi us what your range and vrhat yourconfiguration vrould rook like. r dontt knov, hori r can rimii you to just onesubject- You are asking .for a zoning change or you are asking to amend theordinance based on a project that yo-u,ve got. r don't want to review theproject yet. r realry do want to ieview ihe concept. of the three thingsthat you've asked for, in general in the city of ctant"ss"n. can you keepus away from your project for a while? oo you have anything to tell- usabout driving ranges in chanhassen? persuade us that -we shourd have drivingranges in Chanhassen is what my chatlenge to you would be.
John Pryzmus: on page g, basicalry my feelings in the chaska Herald is anad r developed. r spent a rot of iimi ,itr, tie peopre piu"ring tt" aii"inqrange out there now. Irve been in front of the City CouncLl about twom,onths ago and at that time we didn,t have the tota-l prans and the layout ofthe new facility. It had been approved originalfy f i-ve years ago for adriving range and r never aia open it. r w5rked in it giaduarry over therast 5 years and being that the rittre one r had in towri, there was nodevelopment on it, I never had a reason to open the new one. I brought in
legnl.e from chicago, John Jacobsford Golf and ere went and looked at 6very -
d:iving range in the Twin cities area and there are a rot of driving ...r!""that arenrt kept up very werr and a rot of them are just an intern -";-;;;-.
piece. of property untif you put it into an industriai park or whatever. youaren't going to buy an industrial park for driving rrn!"" but you do buy adriving range for industrial parksi with this project, rrm not proposing itto be used as an industrial park down the road. rtrs a half . ,nittiondorrar .project that should enhan"e the recreationar facilities for thecommunity. In all the response Irve had, they axe LTAZ toi ttre prolect. Ifeel by getting communityiupport, r feel that I want to show the counciland the Planning commission lhat not onry do r want to make a businessventure -out there, I've already spent a tot of money buying the land. Ibought it on a contingency tirJt f courd have a driving ian!e tnen that wasapproved so I guess what I vrant to do now. I originaily pioposed aminiature g.olf in my originar proposar and that was turned down but what rI^tant to do is make it financiaily feasible for me to do it as an i.nvestmentand also make it a good thing foi the community. with the nature of TH 5and there is not realrya tratf ic probrem. Theie numbers might not arl beright but you have appioximatety is,SSS cars going by there i day so uherewonrt be a traf f ic impact. They would be comlng -orf or TH 5 and goi.ng aorrn
{Planning Commission Meet i ngApxil 22, f987 - Page 29
100 yards on a major collector road which is tar.
Conrad: John, I think you are getting into the specifics of the project andIrm really trying to focus on the Ordinance itself right now. We have tolook at the Ordinance and say does it make sense to allow driving ranges?
Does it make sense to allow some buildings out there and you can come backin a few seconds to talk on the specifics but anything else that you canshare with us in terms of, I knov, they are real closely tied together.
John Pryzmus: I guess maybe if I could just answer any questions you havebecause if I start rambling on and on I might get back into that. If thereare some questions as far as if it wiII be compatible. My neighbors outthere, I have a group home to the west of me and contractor yards to thenorth of me. DaIe Green has a farm to the south of me. A guy named Larryvan Deveire has the rand to the east of me and r talked to him and he feelsit's commercial. One of the gentlemen here, John Hennessey, he has the landto the northeast corner of me so basicaJ. Iy what Irm trying to do by getting
community support is not set a precedence in al.rowing any kind of comnercialproject. Like Barb stated, a driving range needs a Iot of land. It isnrtlike putting a gas station out there. The miniature golf and the battingcages, the three of them blend together to make it financially feasiblefirst of all but they also make it a nice project for the people inChanhassen. Like you just had on your map, each developer gives park space.They put in baseball diamonds. The City is acquiring property to add threemore diamonds just a mile to the east of this project. They ire puttinglights on the park because there is such a demand for a recreationalfacilities.and as a private developer, there vron,t be any city money oranything like that. This wilr be a private venture so r think it w6uld jusEbe in asking too with what the City already is doing with their parks aniwith their recreational facilities.
Roger schmidt: I live out in that area. I guess my thinking is that Ihavenrt seen a driving range yet in the metroporitan area that r think is adefinite asset as far as aesthetics go on the community. They are usuarlyIocated in more of a business area or with a golf course and even a golfcourse is stuck back in a corner someplace where they aren't thaE visibre.Being a resident of that area, frm somewhat concerned that werll probably
end up with a very similar situation that you have with 9gZ of the other-driving ranges and rtm very much concerned from the standpoint that r donrtsee the City doing much policing in the area of taking care of what,s outthere right now. That's been, for several years, right now it,s nothing buta junk pile and werve had comments from people out-of-toe/n and in townasking us r^rhatrs going on over there and itts kind of embarrassing for us tohave to admit that we're riving in an area that. l-ooks rike that. r thinkthat particular spot, as far as driving ranges within the City, I thinkthere probabry are spots for them but that particular one, r iould think yourook at it as your western gateway i nto torrn and r think you shourd rook itthat as somethi ng that you donrt want to bui ld up with things that probabl yalenrt going to be complimentary to the city. you have to decide w-hether '
that is a compl,imentary activity or not and obviousry the other thing thatI'm concerned about is the commerci.aLization of the district. It,s not
{
(
Commission Meeting
1987 - Page 3g
fPlanning
Apx iL 22,
arlowed as far as your zoni.ng now and r think peopre kind of go by t.hezoning issues when they decide to locate. there and you don't irbifrarilychange them so r think you should give that serious consideration also.
Headla moved, Emmings seconded to cLose pubric hearing on the zoningOrdinance Amendment. AI1 voted in favor and motion cirried.
Headra: r donrt understand why having a driving range, and the battingthing and the miniature golf is different but r don'i see why a drivin!range would be of any benefit. r think there are severar doinside asf6ctsof it but r donrt see any upside aspects except the person running thirange. I think the people surrounding that might sutfer.
Conrad: You,ve got to consider themDriving ranges are used.
like a golf course. people use it.
Headla: Then if r look at the rocation, then r wonder about Galpin Blvd..
llT on that road quite a bit. r ride a bike on that and right now, r donrtlike the way the cars are on there. Do you have any iilea hJw much trafficcomes and goes from one of those facilities?
Pryzmus: rim sure there will be some major amount of traffic. r don.t knor,,vrhat you consider major but most of it vr1 rr be coming off of TH 5 so theywould be coming off TH 5 down 100 yards and turning in there. The trafflcstudy we, do have a parking rot scheduled for lG spices. we overbuirt theparking lot basicalry. r r^rould say a full ilriving range wouldnrt have morethan 3 or 4 cars at a time. Thatri comparing appi"s t5 oranges because thatwas a temporary thing and basically the people wourd r.rant something to dodown on west 79th street where this wirf uJa business that will be
ma inta i ned -
Siegel: I canrt reca 1l
from the A-2 district.discussing our reasons for excluding golf courses
Dacy: I can't pinpoint the date. we didfiles. It was a fairly short discussion.
go back and look through the
siegel: what was the justification or the reasoning behind us or st.affreconmending the exclusion from the A-2?
Dacy: The way it rras proposed, it was Listed because it was consistent withour prior ordinance. However, it was the specific recomnendation to havegolf courses and driving ranges removed.
Siegel: In essence what werre doing is removing any possibility of having agolf course or driving range in the City of Chanhassen.
Dacy: Thatrs correct. The Bruff creek gorf course is now non-conforming.
Siegel: WeII, that doesnrt make sense to me. It just doesnrt make sense.rf somebody came in with a plan for a beautifur gorf course in the rolring
t(
Planning Commission MeetingApril 221 1987 - page 31
hills of chanhassen, r'm sure the city council and the city pranning
comm-issi.on would jump at the chance to invite them in with open arms todeverop that as such. rn lieu of that, -r rook at that piece of property andr guess rrm new to the history of it and r guess the apilicant has beenremiss in some respects in his follow through in what -tL nu" been pranningfor that. rn arl due respects, r think we should approach this as a newapplication for such use and rook at it in that rigiri. r think it wirt bean improvement on that corner and to me the locati6n is marketable as adriving range and as a miniature golf course. r tend to favor that. unlessthere is more stronger objections to granting a conditionit use permit inthe Zoning Ordinance, I lrould favor iL.
Emmings: r agree with Bob t0ot that r canrt imagine why we wouldnrt havegolf courses and driving ranges as a conditionar- use in the A-2 district. rdonrt have any p:oblem with that. r agree rrrith the staff that miniaturegolf courses and indoor batting buildings such as this don't berong outthere and belong in a commerciat aistrict. Then having said that, r guessputting a miniature gorf course with the rest of the tiings that are liere,the driving range and whatever a naxi-putt and putting grJen business arlseems to be pretty cohesive and make sense in ttris paiticular project so rrmhaving some problems with this. r don't have any piobrem with-thJ drivintrange being a conditionaL use in the A-2. r don't think there ought to b6,in condition r, r don't agree that they ought to be abutting correctors. rthink they should only be on arteriars. oi major streets, i ttrinx we wantto rean thaE r^ray tor^rards major roadways. r think the second condition isvery important that they onry be operated from sunrise to sunset. r thinktha.t_'s adequate in the summer time and r think the li9hts would be a rearproblem for anyone who lived around it. I guess thaf,s alL l got.
Erhart: r -disagree regarding the issue of whether we shour.d arrow gorfcourses and these things in the A-2 area. r agree with Bob. r think wereally overrooked sonething in golf courses and r don,t know enough that vrecan rump practice areas in that or not so r don,t have a strong feeringabout that. r do have.a strong feering about buildings in -ir," a-t and A-2areas- ?hese metar buildings and they tend to be the area that acts as atransitionar area from agricur.tural to the residental. rn south chanhassenwhere peopJ.e have built these metal buildings out in the country and r don,tknow for erha t reason, where they have not bden part of a farm hoir es tead,they. a-re. rearly an eyesore- Even though some oi them are r,rerr kept up; theydonrt fit so r"rith respect to that, r would reat agai;s[,-ttut batiing^practice thing requires meral or any kind of. r.j;; i;;oJtiiur typ"i unvkind of a non-farm building or a non-house, r donit think it ought to bepart of the A-2 or A-1. r think it should not be puii or t-he a_z district.r agree with steve entirely as far as the. driving i.nj.. - i'guu"" as rong asit's on TH 5 r'rith the correct word is major arte-rl.i;'i gr-Lss it,s okay.certainly the one the John ran just west -of the aity 'rr"i."-"r" rong as therewasnrt any buildings and the griss was mowed, r did;'t think it h,as aneyesore at alr-. Regard.ing the buirding on the other hand, if we,re going toput a
'lriving range in here, you proba6ry have to have iooi" "."rr buildingto keep the tractor and stuff out of the rain "" r g;;s'i wouran't mind asmall wooden garage or something just to maintain ti,"t ri"a of thing but
{Planning Conunission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - page 32
certainly not a permanent i_ndustriar type buirding. r agree the hours oughtto be sunrise to sunset. The second concern, r think in the A-z area is foemphasize that we do not want retair business in the A-2 area. For example,r canrt have a retail nursery on my nursery farm. r can have wholesare Lutyou canrt have retail. Again, reflecting on that, we have to be realcare.f ul if we're going to use it at alr, r think it should be on TH 5. Thatis the onry appropriate place to have this in the city. so the rest of thecommission can think about that retair issue and we'vL got to be rearcareful about that. we consistently said we do not wani retail businessactivities down there. r rike 4 that certainry it should not be wi.thin 500feet of a single famity residence. our wholesale nursery and contractoryards basically have to fit with that ru1e.
conrad: r have nothing more to add. r think golf courses and drivingranges are appropriate in chanhassen. r donrt think that buildings out inthat area, specificarry indoor batting buirdings, is what r want to see butto use the rand that way, r think is appropriate. r would vote for thatEype of a use in a A-2 district. My onry comments other than that are weshould have, if we make a notion in favor, somebody might want to work theword golf course in. we don't need to and maybe a gori course is a wholedifferent set of circumstances. r don't know. The other part that r wouldlike to see is an intent statement in terms of why we're ailowing thls antrguess one of the intents that I would see as a conditionar use, i! tominimize impact on neighbors in terns of noise, traffic and righting. rthink we need some kind of intent statement along with this if we d6 chooseto alloe, this as a conditional use.
Emmings: r wouldn't like to see gorf courses included tonight for tworeasons. First of alL, itrs not in front of us and that always makes meuncomfortable but secondry, staff has obviousry thought through the kinds ofconditions we should impose on a driving range, if we're going to arlow thaEas a conditionar use and r don't see thai they have had t[:e ofportunity tothink through conditions for golf courses as i conditionar use-and may-bethat ought to come back as a separate item.
{
Conrad: That's a good point.
motion was*At this this point a made and the following discussed occurred.
miniature golf courses on purpose?Conrad: Steve, did you leave out
Emmings: Yes.
Siegel: Does the miniature golf course, in the eyes of us here, ref l-ect asa retail establishment? Would that be the objection to including thatminiature golf course as a conditional use? It borders in the aiea ofretail establishment and service recreational type business.
Emmings: The vray I think about a miniature golf thinq fits into acommercial area. It's compact. you canrt put a driving range in just acity lot. You need some room. Miniature golf courses don't bothei :ne in
{Planning Conunission Meet j.ng
ApriL 22, 1987 - page 33
the City, they bother ne to thinkdoesn't seem to fit at all.about them being out in the A-2. It just
siegel: r guess r tend to think of it as a similar type of use to a gorfdriving range especially in conjunction with it. rf i! were to tark aboutspeci,f ics, put a bunch -of -miniature golf courses 2 miles apart, rnaybe thatwould be a little bit different but we,re tarking about is'a proposedcomprex here. Not one being here and one being r mile down t-he ioad andanother one a mile do$rn the road all in the e-2 district so r think it,s arittle bit different erhen yourre rooking at it as u p."r.g" as just onethin9.
Emmings: Let me ask in that regard, retrs say that we have passed thisZoning Amendment to allow it as a conditional use, if r.re rdere somehowpersuadeal that a miniature- gorf place fit in erith this particular drivingrange project, could we allov, it?
P3"y, . what r hear you saying- is that you feer that the driving range andthe.miniature gorf course really shourd act together and not a stand aloneminiature golf situation so if you wanted to p-h.u"" vori ipp.o"al in thefranework that gorf driving ranges subject to these conclitions. liiniaturegolf courses as an accessory use to the gorf driving rung", that would be anoption. You couldntt. haye a- miniature gor.f course witt o,it a driving i"nt"-along erith it. If thatrs what yourre saying.
siegel: r guess to me it makes sense. The whole idea of having a miniaturegolf course, especiarly when you think about fathers and mother-s going outto a golf driving range and theyrve got a place for their kids to "p.na "o*"time- rtrs sort of a natural. rrm iurpriied there aren't more combinationsIike that around.
Emmings: rf we could, r guess r4,hat r would rike to do since r made themotion, is 1e-ave my motion out there the way it is and theo maybe you canmake a second motion to talk about miniature gorf as an accessory use to thedriving range. Would that be alright?
Dacy: Yes, and then you shourd look at what a miniature golf course is. rtdoes require more lights. you have the windmirls and the-peopre to hit theball through and so on so you have to consider those visuai aspects arso.It is different than a driving range.
Erhart: r wourd r ik-e to. see us go back and spend some more Eime on this oneand define it a riEtre bit bettei. r,m reall-y .against putLing anything inthe A-2 area that visually is not consistent witir eittrer resiaentiar oi --'
agricurture and r think you can make a driving .unq. "on"isient wittragriculturar but r think we ought to define w-tra t tle l""asciping" is-'going tobe. Buil-dings in some kind of terms. vJhaL buirdings can u. pot on there?rrve.seen driving ranges with r.6 foot high fences uid th"n in a couple yearsthey're faII ing down.
Emmings: Tim, don't we retain complete control over that when it's under
{
{Conunission Meeting
1987 - Page 34
{PlanningApxil 22,
Headla: I doubt that
has to get pretty bad
you have that much control over a conditional use. It
Emmings: No. When the plan comes in Dave, r^re look atgets built and hre say we only alIo$, you to build it iflandscaping this way. If you show us the plan for theto build and we approve it.
it before anyth i ngyou do thebuilding you're going
Headla: Irm referring to Timrs
Emmings: Yourre talking aboutalways a problem yes.
coflunents.
maintaining it after itts built. That's
Headla: r think Tim made the comment very well in that a conditionar usepermit is very hard to police at times. i ttrint< a good exanple of that isthe horse riding farm. once they were in there and there was a dustproblem, and r was involved with that to some extent, it's hard to say youpeople created \az of the dust. rt's pretty hard to shut them down beciusethere is nothing to enforce that. once they were in there, they were inthere.
Dacy: -The advantage to the Zoning Ordinance now is that, that originalconditional use permit was approved severar years ago and we do a lot morerestrictions in our current ordinance and thatrs thL purpose of thisamendment process is to establish those type of conditions. rf you wantedto add no metal buidlings on the golf driving ranges or a suggesledcondition, just authorize a building to take tickets or whatever, can,texceed.800 square feet. r don't knov, but you have that ability to establishconditions Ehrough this process.
Emmings: There are two other things. A conditional use permit can berevoked if they donrt rive up to the conditions. Mr. pryimus has arreadyfound that out on one occasion. That's worked here. To say that a gorftlriving range or golf course doesn't fit in the A-2, means lhat ere'r;banni.ng. alr driving ranges and that doesn't make sense to me. They are aconditionar use, not as a permitted use just so anybody can put on -anywhere
they want to, as a conditional use
conrad: Tim, you r,rould like to see other conditions in that other than erhatwerve got. Is that true?
sieger: werre talking about the zoning ordinance amendment now, not theconditional use permit r ight?
Dacy: Yes.
our conditional use? That to me is the whole reason that it should be inthere as a conditional use rather than a permitted use because we retain arot of contror over the pran and the randscaping and what the buirdings aregoing to be.
{Planning Commission MeetingApri.! 221 1987 - page 35
Erhart: we courd put it in the zon i ng ordi nance so we have dr i ving !ange sare permitted as rong as the crub house is kept to a 35-40r we can put ahatin there if we want and one storage shed. you could add those as part ofthe zoning ordinance. on the other hand, r guess if alr we're arl6wing isthat the driving range it erouldn'!t make any economic sense to put much morethan that on it. Just .a smal1 garage and smalr crubhouse. Maybe it rrrouldpolice itserf. The other thing r would be more inclined to go-along with isif $re actuarly restricted it to TH 5 ox TH 2L2 but r eril1 not vote for it ifthis can be put on TH 101 or Lyman Brvd.. r just think thatrs dead \rrong.
Headla: What are we really voting on novr?
conrad: we're voting on an ordinance change and as stevers motion said, heis recommending that golf driving ranges be a conditionar use in the A-)district. werre not talking about John's proposar now. we're tarkingsimply about, is it appropriate to allow aiiving ranges in chanhassenbecause right no$, you can,t have them.
{
Headla: So if we were to say no, weOrdinance says as is. That does notgetting a conditional use?
donrt want any of this. Weprohibi E anyone from coming
do
in
what the
and
Conrad: They can't get a conditional use becauseThere is no way to apply for a driving range right
Headla: It is explicitedly prohibited?
Dacy: Yes. The use is not allowed in any district.
itrs prohibited right
now.
no hr.
is, we will aI low it as atown right now and build one.effect the Zoning Ord i nance
Conrad: But what we're saying in this requestconditional use but Dave, nobody can come lntoJohn rrrants to build one and he's got to have usright now if he,s to build anything.
Dacy: rf r can make one more comment before you take action on that motion.on the collector and arterial condition, it concerns me if you do rimit itto just two highways or to an arteriar because to me that construes that youcan onry get access from that arteriar highway. we wourdn,t lvant to createa driveway situation off of TH 5 so the beneflt of having a coLrector inthere, in this particurar situation, is that you can hav6 access of themajor street. Arr the streets in the rural aiea are collectors or arterialsanyway but r think we shourd preserve the arterial to keep that frow i;;;;;;traffic and not allow addition interruption.
Erhart: what about stati.ng within 7ao feeE of TH 5 or TH 2:Iz. Have accessrrom.. .
Dacy: You are saying more of a location?
Erhart: yes
bus i ness out
exactly. What you're talkingin the rural area and I think about is putting a retailthe only place you want to do
(
Planni.ng Comnission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - Page 35
that is on TH 5 ox 'IH 212.
Erhart: It could be a collector but as long as it was on TH 5 or TH 212.The access points can be on the collector.
Dacy: Itot T ,5Og?
is subjective because $rhere do you draw the lines? At 5Og, L,ggg
Dacy: Then in that case r guess r $rourd recommend that you look at amendingnumber 1to location near an arterial street with access to a colrector orarterial. Again, it all depends on iErs location.
Emmings: Wha tfor ingress and
if we said location
egress?
on an arterial with access to a collector
Siegel: Wouldn't
Ord inance?
that be part of the conditional use instead of the Zoning
Dacy: Yes, the benefi tindividual case.
of the conditional use will allow you to look at the
Emmings: No. My motion is going to leave that in and IrlI teII you why.
Conrad: Leave what in?
Emmings: It's going to leave in a condition that will state that it will belocated on an arterial with access to a collector for ingress and egress andthe reason is, if someone comes in and our ordinance already says they canonly look at places along arterials, werre going to have a lot less troubLewith those people than if they come in and say, okay I $rant it over here andyour Ordinance doesnrt say I canrt.
Erhart: But you've got Pioneer Trail and TH 101 and Lyman Blvd. are allarterials.
Dacy:
s t reet
As
as
I is Iocat ion on an arterial
Conrad: Steve, do you want to amend that?
Emmings: Yes. Again, I think it should be located on an arterial streetwith access to a collector for ingress and egress. I guess what werresaying is we donrt want them just anyvJhere in the agricultural district. Wewant them on major roadways but we donrt want their driveway coming ontothat major roadway. We $rant them like here, on a corner where they've got
access to a collector so the turn can be made off of TH 5 onto Calpin andthen get in and out on calpin so they aren,t actually turning off thatarterial. They don't have Eheir driveway on the arterial but we wanE themIocated on major roadways rather than just scattered anywhere.
the motion
identified 1S
:.n
on the floor norrr, i temArticle VI, Section 25.
{
PJ-anni ng Commission MeetingApril 22, L987 - page 37
Siegel: Now where are we Mr. Chairman. Wervewe're in discussion stage and he wants to make
Conrad: Thatrs correct so I withdraw mymotion on your change Steve just to get
discussion?
I.
original second and second yourthis going. Is there anymore
Erhart moved, Headla seconded to amend the motion to limit the golf drivingra_nges must be adjacent to either TH 5 or TH z\2 and access must be from acorrector or an arteriar which leads to TH 5 or ,tH 2L2. Erhart, nmmingi anaHeadla voted in favor and siegel and conrad opposed the amendment, andrnotion carried.
Emmings moved, conrad seconded that the planning commission recommendto amend the Zoning Ordinance to allor^r driving ranges i.n the A_2district as a conditional use with the following c5nditions:
had a moti on
an amendment
anC a second and -to his motion?
The location is limited to being adjacent to TH 5 and TH 212 andaccess must be from a collector or an arteriar which leads to TH 5or TH 2L2.
2. Hours of operation shall be from sunrise to sunset.
submission of a3 landscapingProvision of adequate parking areas andplan in conformance with Arti.cle VIII.
4 No site shall be located within
res idences .
5OO feet of si.ngle family
All voted in favor except Headla who opposed.
HeadIa: The r ea sonsituations that canrespect to both the
being that I think there are fa! too rnany negativeshappened as compared to the upside advantages. Inadjacent landowners and the City.
Conrad: John werlt bring you back on board. Werre going to open up thepublic hearing for the second stage of this which is-wireie y.o u. are a-skingfor a conditional use permit. you are asking for a golf da'r.rrrrrg range.Barbara, because we have turned dorrn a miniafure gori course aodTor u-aitingbuilding, shourd John continue to pursue and pres6nt his lioposar in fulr.i-
Dacy: I think so.
Pryzmus: Basicalry' financially I canrt even proceed, by taking out theminiature golf and the indoor activities, finaicially'foi me, it maXes itimpossible. what you basically did was take away th; f o;nd;tion ana-lnJ-r^ralrs and yourre giving me the roof so r can,t enler into a contractuaragreement with the city to spend 9360,06q.a6 to basicatly make a r"auiitotdriving range. r arready have the driving range sprinkr3r systems arreadyin' The tee area is ar.ready built. The greens are arready done. Thesandtrap is there. ?he classified parking lot that we ori{inalty was-agreea
t
{Planning Commission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - page 38
{
upon five years ago is in and r need to do some minimar grading to open itup- so when you mentioned that the miniature golf, thi; is a sportscomplex. Not just a temporary use driving ru.rg6. The miniature golf as yousee on r-494 on the strip $rhere it's alr concrete and also in Excelsiorwhere they have alr rock, now on ny deveropmentar plan we aie usingapproximately, r haven't walked and measurEd it ali off, but for the battinocages and the miniature go1f, we're using with parking io*.rtr"i. ;;;";;-;-"'acres. 5 to 6 acres in a commercialry zoned arJa wouid make it financiairyimpossibre, especially when you buird a building thatls ;;;;g ro conformwith all the buirdings in the industrial park. -aut g"tting'lu"k to what isgoing to be nice for the community, as Roger said, ii is lirt of the gatewayfrom the west- with -the landscape architecture plans thai we have submittedand this will arl be done through the city, we wirl be adding anywhere from4 to 8 foot berms throughout the miniature goJ,f. They wirl -ue rn-aintainea lya.neighbor out there. r have a furl time manager hiied to run it. A fulltime grounds keeper. He wirl be there 5 days i week, o. I or whatever ittakes. The trees, we will basicarry have u! righting on irr the berms withthe shurbs. There are, even though it hasn't been mJintained as anarboretum ri.ght now, most all the trees are planted. There will be anotheradditional 100 some trees pranted. r appreciate your voting to arlowdriving ranges but r don't know what you want me to sign in-a contractuaragreement to do what when r canrt have basicarty two-tiirds of what rtmproposing. The building itself and where it's ;ituated, this pran was drawnup before we decided where the on-site septic system would go ind with theadditional setbacks, the building can be set batk lag feet. with the bankbeing taken down 10 feet and the berm coming up 4 feet so this buirding---'-wou-ril absorutery, that's 14 feet in itself Jnd the building is only ti-reethigh. No it goes from 14 feet to I5.8 basically with a fIJt roof. Thebuilding would be all cedar on the outside. Tlie roof is metal but when rinsulate it, it would. be Like a compco roof. There is a neighbor that livessouth on TH r01 that.is-getting a price together for me now io the buiraing-would not be a tin shed. rn this area theie is permitted use. rn fact, rhave to get financing on the building so r wourd have to come to the city toget a building permit to build a conCractor's yard, a nursery, a nog rari oiwhatever. rtm going to have to do something with ih" prop"rty and lhebuildi.ng is already there so r do have to d6 somettring wittr ii and r justfert that for the community and the neighbors, with air the landscaping. rtused to be a tree farm so there are alreldy 300 some trees, r think'tnJ tro]the miniature gorf and the driving r.ng" a-r " just a naturai. people aregoing to cone out- rf you have any chitdreo, -how many people say, what canwe do mommy or what can we do? There's nothing to do in ChanhaJsen. thafJsthe.biggest thing ever since rrve been here for 13 years, there's notninj 1odo in this town. Here we have no booze. we have bisically no noise. c6rrbal1s don't make any noise. we have no dust problem. we r6alry have noproblems other than something thah shourd be nice for the community. Thecost of the building in the centrar business district, r just sotd-a pieceof rand that this wourd basicarl,y be the onry prace in chjnhassen that itcould go righE now and that rand with the buirding that it would take, wouldcost a coupre mirrion dolrars. Einancially you courd never do tt.t pioj""t-here so the citizens of chanhassen won,t trive trris project. The loc;ti;;out there, being that it is on a major highway. rt is not conducive to
(
Planning Commission Meet i ngApril 22, 1987 - page 39
(
estate homes. when you have 20,aoa cars driving by every day, everyoneknows what the land, r paid i4,ogo.oq per acre ior-5 yeais ago when-the randwas going for a rot more because peopre aren,t buying- it for farmrand. rdid buy it on a contingency that r courd have the-drlving range so by notbeing able to sho r., you vrhat...we're using pictures and aimensions fr6mcourses in california and Erorida and r rdant this to be the nicest and wetrthought out miniature golf course. rf you've ever played mini-luii o;.;-i;Minnetonka, we measured that out and hranted to at rlast have thl trees andshurbs and greenery th-aF they have. !{e aren,t proposing any elephants orducks or geese or anything that,s going to rook -ba8. r -ru"i it io be fun.vlerre going to do a lot of underground things with pvc. Littre kids rikewhen- the barr disappears and then it comes up. The nini-putt, to get backto $rhat mini-putt and maxi-putt is, a mini-putt for kids inywhere Erom 4 or5 years old up to 9 or r0. you take them to a real tought irini.atri" goir--cours-e_ and they get very. discouraged. Everybody likes lo do good so itwould be a real interesting little course Uut ttieir ball alwalis winds up ina good spot so they can score good but it won't be interestin-g enough f'oryour 11, 12, 13 and your adults so the maxi-putt would be thai. t'ri tryingto get something for the whole family. The batting cages, r don,t know ifany of you have ever had chirdren in Little League -tut itre worse thing thatcan.happen is when your little guy strikes out twice in a row and he comesback crying. when r was in the Jaycees we bought on" u.tii.rg machine forthe cAA but there just isnrt enough time for a1t the little kids to use thatone batting machine. ?he buirding itserf would be basica).Iy not seen fromthe .highway. Right now, in a farm zoned area, you can uuiit uasicarrywhatever you want f or a hog f arm, dairy f arm, -wfratever. r want to have alot.nicer building than that._ rt's going to be totarly screened but bytaking away, like r say, the foundation. - t appreciate your motion to ilrowthe driving ran9e.
Dacy: Given t,heir action, the next item on the agenda is l-iterally aconditional use permit for.a driving range. you [rave a coupre of -options.
You can withdraw that apprication right now so they rrould not "".ry out thereview of the driving range and the m;tter wourd just go on to councir todetermine the ordinance amendment but if they do ittow-the driving ,ing"-unaeverything erse, it wiLr have to come back and go through the pran ."rri"r.so, do you vran t them to carry out the review iuit for ttie ariving r;;;;;;are you withdrawing your application at this !oint?
Pryzmus: r r.rant the driving range but wlat r'l saying is r can't reallyenter into any contracts if r only have the drivinj .Jng". r appreciateyour motion for the driving range.
conrad: John, r think there was some sensitivity to the miniature golfhere- rt q,asnrt voted that way but there was diicussion. city couricii may:JrleJtain that thought. I don;t know just because we voied-one way. rthink they wirl be consistent in some -or tn" things tha;-wl're saying. r!nin!. some phi-rosophicar things wilr carry out baied on rrhat we,re sayingbut rrm sure that miniature gorr is totarly out but r -aon;i- know if y6u -iant
to carry it forth. Itrs really up to you.
{Planning Conmission Meet i ngApril 22, 1987 - page 40
Pryzmus: I want to carry it forward.
Dacy! What we could do is, this is going to the Council on May 4th, youcourd come back to the pranning commission on May 13th for gernit review ifitrs approved. I knoe, you have some timing restiictions.
Pryzmus: That is to enter into another agreement so they have the site planand other additional uses. Okay.
Dacy: I rrould have to come back and you probably wouldn.t get approvalbefore June Ist. It would be more time if they don't reviei it.--
But they canrt review it if you are going to Leave the motionjust for driving range. Let's just take the driving range and IiIIspend another month. I don't know what else to do bLcause yourvemotion and thaErs your feelings so I donrt have an option.
Pryzmus:
stand i ng
have to
made the
Conrad:
advice.
Well, you probably do. I guess
What did you two decide?
Barb is just giving you some
Dacy:driving
SiegeI:
think you
range.
You still
I are asking us to go ahead and review just the golf
want it to go before Council in total?
Pryzmus: I r"rant
Dacy: Okay, thenPermit, they wilIon Ehe Ord inance
it to go before Councit in total because if
Ehe Conditional Use permit and the Wetland
make a motion to table that pending Council
amendment.
I don't - - -
Alterationfinal action
Pryzmus: tetrs do the wetland. Wepart of the driving range. That has
Dacy: So you are saying to go ahead
Pryzmus: Yes.
Conrad: Okay, this is a public
can do the wetlands
nothing to do rrith now because thatrs
the miniature gol f.
with the driving range?
commen ts ?
hearing. AII voted in favorSiegel moved, Erha r t
and motion carried.seconded to
hearing. Any
close publ ic
Emmings: one thing that I notice that there is in theexisting ash, 2 to 2 L/2 inches in diameter and points
roe, of trees. when I drove by there tonight, I didn,t
Dacy: There are trees out there. There areJohn has mentioned. They are small.
Landscaping it sa ysto that whole Iong
see any trees at aII.
Emmings: 2 l/2 ioches in diameter?
a number of trees out there as
{Planning Commission MeetingApril 22, 1987 - page 4I
Dacy: Some are but
Emm ings: And doesthis?
not all.
it go across the whole property the r.ray it's portrayed on
??9yt It's along TH 5, yes. Some, I think may be dead. A lot of themdidn't have leaves on them as of yesterday.
Emmings: put in a condition that they have to be living trees?
Dacy: They are identifying existing conditions. The specific thing thatthe comnission shour.d address is the appropriateness of it" tignting and thefencing proposars. Those are some of €tre [trings that staff ki;d of -f i;;9;-oyt- with just the driving range, there was a talrer righilng stanaiia'inthe southvrest corner. Iour pre;ious notion rdas for the 6peration of thedriving range from sunrise tb sunset so in my .i"a-tt,.t iiirrting ""t"."-falls out and you need to address that one wiy or the othei.
Headra: what does he need. the lighting for? rf you don,t give him rights,that kind of insures that it doesn,t go past sunset.
Dacy: r realize that. r was just saying that r wanted to make sure thatthe Commission was comfortable with that.
Ernmings: rs there any reason they have the lights? That you wourd want thel igh ts ?
Pryzmus: As you know, there i.s a group home west of me. Irm not sayinganything bad about group homes but the contractor's yard, the residents overhere, everyone in the .farm community has security riqhts and a person courdget in and raise all kinds of heck witt th" putti-ng gi."n o, r,rhatever and rfeer that r need some security maintenance out there-. with the puttinggreen being in the southwest corner, that wirl give me the securiiy aowithere. r also had security on the front of the indoor activity uriiainf u"tI wouldnrt propose any more lightinq than the average farrn has.
E:nmings: Ho$, tall is that lighb? How high above the ground is that lighti tsel f?
Pryzmus: I don't kno$r what NSp puts in.
Emmings: Itrs just one of those standard lights?
Pryzmus: rtis a standard right that wourd be on a farm. The other thing, rguess r cut it short when the pubr.ic hearing was crosed but as far as thefencing, there wirr be the fencing around tfre perimeter of it rrill be thesame as princers fencing down the street. rt ;ilr be the black fencing -.na
the fencing on the west and across the north border wirr be the fencin{thatrs out there- rt is a sirver fence but it erilr arr be G f"ea hlgl:There won't be any need to protect any roads or anything. The drivirig wilrbe hitting to the north.
{Planning Commission MeetingApxil 22, 1987 - page 42
Hnmings: Barbara, I see one light. Are there more?
{
Dacy: Yes, the Iight in the
shor,rn on the glan outside oflights but if the miniatureout. Other than those, thaE
south$rest corner is the only one ththe putting area. The miniature gogolf course is not there, then thole
at
If
you had
courseIights f aIJ.
Pryzmus: We have Iighting on
Dacy: For the tee area.
was the only Iight, correct?
the path underneath the trees.
Pryzmus: This is a path in back of the tee area.
Dacy: Iour re saying these are l0 feet in height?
Pryzmus: Yes, those, a:e 1! feet in height. They would be a down light. rtwas to light the path but if we're not going to Le open...
Dacy: Arong the tee area they are proposing a series of 10 foot rightsthere.
Pryzmus:
feet and
would be
In back of the tee area there is athen they are diagonally across fromin the tree area.
Path. I put
one a no ther
trees every 30
and the I ights
Dacy: But again, if they condition from sunrise to sunset and they are notthere for security reasons.
Headla: Where $rould that G foot fence be?
Pryzmus: A 6 foot fence would surround Ehe whole property.
Headla: Everytime you drive by TH 5 you see a big black fence.
Pryzmus: Yes, it wourd be about the same as the arboretum fence only itwould be black. rt lrould be the same as princers fence down half a rnit".
Headla: Have you people seen that fence? Go take a look at it.
Pryzmus: rf you donrE rike black fence, r donrt have to put it. r thoughtmaybe you would like it because it was the same as prince;s.
conraal: rn trying to understand staff's analysis of the wetland. rn carytsreport, are those conditions bundred in to the staff recommendat i ons?
Dacy: Yes.
conrad: And Gary, basicalry you have a lot. of concerns with the area from awetlands standpoint and some other things. were your conditions as stated,were they worded so that if we decided to arlo$, filring in the wetrands,these things have to be done? r didntt see a statement that said that. r
{Planning Commission MeeEingApriL 22, 1987 - page 43
saw Rockwellrs comments saying that the $retlands shouldnrt be firred in.That there are some senstive areas and whatever. How do r interpret your
comments at the end on the attachment?
warren: r admit it got a littre confusing as \.re got into it. rn trying tointerpret our wetlands ordinance, that was part of the thrust that r wairesponding to some of the deficiencies thaC the submittal, has in relation tothe wetlands ordinance. r guess the final bottom line of my comments wourdbe that if you go ahead that the recommendations that f havL shown should beenforced as far as sedimentation basin and then some of these things. iguess in general that's ldhere I was coming from.
conrad: rn briefr r'm not sure that rrve seen a hardship or a real reasonto al1ow the firling in of the wettands. r r,rould have Jtough time goingalong with. r don't think the measures pointed out are necessary. r preterto keep the wetlands operating. rt appears from Rockwellrs comments, rwasnrt sure about the trade-offs that she was mentioning. I was having atough time interpretting that.
Dacy: When we $rent out to inspect the site, as you kno$r, the area has beencurtivated. what she came back and said was that it's not good for habitatPurposes. Hordever, it is performing some type of function ior storm waterrun-off to Bruff Creek. A11 that's out theie noi,, are the regrasses and soon- It is not proEected by the DNR because of their particular restrictionson vegetation and so on. what she said was that they have rooked at thesituation where, as in the Centex case, if you alter one part of thewetland-, if you improve another part of it, they wilr accegt that. rn thiscase, the appricant has no access to other propLrty. He d6esn,t own anyother property that contains additional wetrands aiea. He would have t-ogain that easement right over to do that. rf you deny the wetrandsart.eration permit, you would in effect deny uje of t h-e property as a drivingrange.
conrad: There are tr.ro issues here. As a conditional use permit for thegolf driving range. There is also a wetlands alteration permit that we haveto respond to also. As r said, based on the ordinance fo-r the vretrandsarteration permit, vre havenrt solved the problem. There hasn,t been atrade. rt's almost impossibre to soLve the problem with the wetrand andtherefore, r guess r would have a tough time. r don't see ho$, he canmaintain the ordinance and the intent of the ordinance with the currentproposal. Is there a motion?
Siegel: Barbara, don't your recommendations makeapplicable to the vretland ordinance?the wetlands perm i t
{
Dacy: Yes. That's true. However, because we are unsure about rrrha thappen to the ordinance amendment in the first case, we really didnrtspeci fy a motion as rr, e do in other cases but Gary correct me, you rconditions are directed toward gaining additionai inroimatlon anarecommending a permit sedimentation basin there if alteration was arr
would
o$red.
Planning commission "."{rnnApril 22, 1987 - page 44
Warren: Right.
Siegel: And some of Garyrsproject. Not just the golf
Warren: My recommendati ons
Siegel: you had someth i ng
Warren: That r s correct.
Siegel: In lieu of that,set by S ta ff?
recommendations weredriving range right?contingent on the total
are based on the toEal project.
about run-off from the building.
does that make any change in your recommendations
Dacy: As far as the drainage issue, it eriminates additional hard roofarea, that calculation from the drainage but r thini tt.-o".r"rr drainageplan and so on stirr remains intact. irr ot these conditions courd beapplied for a recommendation of approvar except for number r. rf you havesome type of preference for the lighting sche-me .na you-"t"u-ra probautyidentify the hours of operation if -you Jre going to i..orn .nd approvar.
siegel: r thought we already did that with the previous motion?
Dacy: yes, you did but I guess I wouldapplication.prefer that you clarify it in this
Ernmings: Ifwould it make
Siegel:
land to
someone were tothe conditional to deny the wetlandpermit moot?
aI teration per:nitvote
use
Dacy: Yes .
Emmings moved, Erhart seconded thatof the application for Ehe wetlandexcept Siegel- and motion carried.
the Planning Commission recornmend denialAlteration permit. All voted in favor
Siegel: I thought I was assured that Staff vrouldrecomnendations to satisfy the alteration permit.
Conrad: You can minimize the impact on the wetland
Siegel: In essence, vre are denying the property
Conrad: No. For a golf driving range because hepr oper ty.
ensure with their
owner
the Ordinance says.
any use of his land.
but
I
me
see the effect of a golf drivingimpact on it than any other type
fail tois less
apparenEly needs more
range on aof use.
piece of bare
Emmings: He has to fill in the wetrands to use it as a golf driving range.
sieger: r stilr disagree. I think staff came up with recommendations thatthe applicant coul-d adhere to and meet the use of the land for his purpose.
Pryzmus: That piece of land has been farmed for LTA years. It $rashomesteaded and last year with the lvettest year we ever had, it was downtwice_.in the spring and in the farL. There has never been any waterstanding there and so, $rhen you reach your ordinance about what is a class Awetrand or what is a protected wetland, it,s anything that is going to haveany water if there is a l6a year rain. Basicalr-y, *o-st of your communitiesare built to crass A vretlands according to that ordinance ;o r don,t wantyou to get real carried away with thinking that r,m firling in a lake. rtrsa piece of farmrand. rtrs row and it's advantageous to me to put in acouple feet of fill so my barlpicker, r.rhen itrs raining, won't-squeeze thebarrs into the ground. There isnrt going to be any ch-ange. There isn'tgoing to be any buirdings close to the creek. The water wi:.r stirr f lor.,very smoothLy. rt's going to be nothing but mowed grass and so r thinksometimes you're getting a littre carried away with r.rhat I'm doi.ng in there.The wetlands seems to throw the trigger so address that. rt is a farm. rtalways has been a farm. There are no caEtails. There has never beenstanding water there ever. r drove through there the other day with mypick-up. Now, it's been a dry spring. f,ait spri.ng it was the wettestspring werve had for years so it's not wetlandl =o- I wanc people to realizethat.
Planning Commission MeetingApxiL 22, 1987 - page 45
WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO INST ALL THE LAKE ANNVIRGINIA FORC EMA I N IN.\ND NEAR CLASS A AN D CLASS B
INTERCEPTOR AND LAKE
wETLANDS A Lo-NG THE_ALIGNMENT RUNN I NG SOUTHEASTERLY FROM TH 41 5, THROUGH CHANHASSEN LAKESBUSINESS PARK, NORTH OF LAKE SUSAN AND I NTO
TO TH
-EDEN PRAIRIE, METROPOLITAN WASTECONTROL C duMlSsronl-APPLICANT.
Publ ic Presen t :
Leander Kerber 1520 Arboretum Blvd.
Barbara Dacy presented the staff report on this item.
Leander Kerber: r have concern with it because it's going to go rightacross the south end of my property on TH 5. r have [tre fropeity betweenthe City park and the nursery. My question is, as long as it's ii,g_zaggiogaround, why don't they cross the highway dovrn the road 56A feet to L,gqd 'feet and stay off of my property. enoEher question is, am f going to teassessed for that no$,,or when am r supposed to pay for it or im r going tohave to pay? If so, why?
?::y_t --1h. iltgrc-e-p^c9r at rhis rime is nor proposed to be assessed duringthLs year and in r987. The Metropolitan council wirr not allov, us or alfowproperty o$rners in that oerner to hook up into that interceptor until afterthe year 2006 so there are no assessments at this time.
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r CITY OE CHANHASSEN
(
I. perrnit. Subject to the terms
forth herein, the City of Chanhassen hereby
use permit for: T.R.I. properties, Inc.
2. Prooert
COUNTIES, !{INNESOTA
USE PERMIT
and conditions set
grants a conditional
The permit is for the following described
Chanhassen, Carver County, Minnesota:
CARVER fu\D HENNEPIN
COND IT IONAL
ProPerty in rhe city of
See attached Exhibit "A
3. Conditions.The permit is issued subject to the
following conditions: See attached Exhibj.t "B"
4. Termination of Permi t .The City may revoke the
permit following a public hearing under any of the following
circumstances: material change of condition of the neighborhood
r,{here the use is located; violation of the terms of the permit.
tfrfrfitwrs I
conditionai use permit is a criminal misdemeanor.
Dated:N-"r.--t-^,i<l , lctt3
CITY OF CIIANHASSEN
I t.S yor
By:
Its Ci ty Manager
{1Violation- of ttie terms of this
/
-s. c.imil;r p enalty.
STATE OF |{INNES OTA ))ss
COUNTY OF CARVER )
. The foreooing instrument was acknowledged before me thj.sllq day of /)i"'-,-4y___, iojl-u!-rhomas L. Hanirron,Mayor, and pdi-EEEio-i rh-, Cfty uanl{er of trr" city of chanhassen,a l{innesor.a municipat "o.poririon,'"" Iln"rr "r
-ir,.-.J.i".Iiion
.
rNotaryl a^
ffi rsas I
KAREN J. ENGELHAROTIIO'AIiY PUFLTC . T.I'NNESOTA
CArrvcA COUNTy
iay Comm'3s,o. Ero,rie Ccr tr
L__
EXH IB IT .\
fho c oa rr( ,n.hip
Seca ion L
EolIo,,rs:
of che Sou a h!.'e s E16, Ranec 2l and, Township L I6,
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Quoracr:of ehe Sourh,;esc euarcer of SecCton tb,*::;"ni5:n3: *":"3:::[r:._ :::"::::f ::i.:Hi:;i.
Eeglnnlng aC Ehe souEh(.resE corner of sald SecElon l0; fhence on an assumedbcarlng of Norch I dcgree So-rr,ii"cI= i6'"""o.,a, Hesc,aione-Ehe wesE Iine ofii'ij::!:1"!i',:::t::;;t.1i:;:li::J::"i:1,,e!-!e;;;-.f;"IIE s",.r,7e degreeiJ2 mrnucci iri ""II",r= an.c, n;ii;;;;;: ii iii:ii [:::; :l]:la: i*i[;l^lii::::l2 mr':rtrr.s 2o ':r<'corrrr':r r'i^':rr: ;;i ii';;;;r;" l, I 12o.rr, i"iir ;i;;;i.. sou(:h 74,rr.11ron.. -32 mrnr.rEcs 20 scconds unsc, n.ii;.;;;; t!.t:u:0d i;;;; ;ii;il"" souEh 47 rregrcest7 mrnuccs 20.scconrts Easc, a iii;i;;.::l li.aj-ri"Ii,.i"II" Norch 82 <lc,ircest2 mrnuEes 60 seconds uasc, a Ji;;;;:; ia.ga r"".; cr,".,.u"iouch 58 desreest7 minures 20 seconris eascj a Ji;;;;"; "t 91,s8-f;";;-;;InIe so,.,ct,8e-deereesr7 minuces 20 seconds eascj i Ji;;;;.; rr rea.o:-i;;r;"I;;;." Soueh 18 dlgreest7 mtnuEcs 40 scconrrs..r^Jc,scj a Ji;;;;;; lr aza.i; i;;;,.i.,Iiio norEherly rrshE_ :.f-'w:rv
''ne of Trunr<,,igirw.iv-51';;;;:: i,i.q1 ss dcgrces 54 mrnuEcs 50 secondsi:iil- i!-i";;::,';6'li;ii";l gll;:i;ffi i';' <* s rance-or 3 3. 08 recc ;
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::l:liH l3;1.;;;ji.;i i;;i,,.;;;"':.'l:,31'llo"f.osiljll!";" :[;.::i=", ,"/ . _.._ and subjecE E6 any o"a_nir_Io.;;d;;; Il..r""o.n.(
I
(.EXIIIBIT "B
That the applicant receiveCarver County public l{orksCounty Road 117.
an access permit fromDepartment for access
{
1
2
the
onto
That. the applicant submit plans d.emonstrating the mannerin which- the parking area is to be constructed so as todrain well and prevent surface material f="* ,."ir:..r1 o,eroding from the parking area. said pians shall includethe type of surface material to ue usEJ-and the placementof erosion control devices such as ii"a=.upi.rg t],ml.is- -
around the perimeter of the parking area.
3. The premises shall be free of litter at all-times .
That_ sanitary facilities be maintained insatellites as shown on the proposea pianduring hours of operation.
5 That grounds security lighting be shielded sointerfere with traffi",oi niqfrway S ina-sa:.ameet the approval of the Citt En;ineer.
That the City Council may revoke the permita finding that any provilions of the ier*:_tmaterraLly vioLated.
That the applicant comply with a1lordinances and regulations.
That the applicant comply with a1lagency rules and regulations.
the form of
on the premises
as not toIighting shalJ_
upon making
have been
6
7
9
That the hours of oDerationhours of sunrise and sunset.
applicable city
applicable referral
be restricted between the
That no alteration occur within ten feet of the edge ofthe ravine area and furthermore that the property isadditionally subject to the provisions of- the ShorelandManagement Ordinance for the general d.evelopment wateisof Bluff Creek.
72.
11. That no food or beverage be soLd on thethat no food. or beverage machines, snackelectronic ganes are permitted.
premj.ses andbars, or
That a revisedrestrictions,
Counci.l .
plan be submitted that willconditions, and approvals of reflect the
the City
4
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10.
CITY OF
EHANHASST}I
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: Sept. 21, 19g8
C.C. DATE: Oct. 10, 1988
CASE NO: 88-11 Site plan
Prepared by: Dacy/v
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Site PIan Review for a Convenience Store withGas Pumps and a Car Wash
PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT:Amoco Oil Company
5001 West 80th Street, #890Bloomington, MN 55437
Mr. Jim Filippi
North Star Engineering
3052 Harbor Lane No, *lPlymouth, MN 55441
PRESEIIT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AI{D LAND USE:
WATER AND SE9IER:
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:
BH, Highway and Business District
1.16 acres
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BH;
BN;
BH;
BH;
Brown Car Wash
Ewy. 5/Arnerican Legion
Eanus faci lity
Iloliday Station
Water and sewer is available to site.
The site contains an existing Amoco StandarStation and automatic car waih
Commerci a1
LOCATION: Northeast Corner of Hwy. 5 and 101
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
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Amoco Site Plan
September 21 , 1988
Page 2
APPLICABLE REGULATIONS
secLion 20-712 aIlows
washes as a permiLted
convenience stores with gas pumps and car
use in the BH District.
Section 20-7J-5 requires the maximum 1ot coverage of 65t rrlith set-
backs of 25 feet for fronl yards, 20 feet for rear yarals and 10
feet for side yards. The parking and off-street parking areas
shall comply with all yard requirements of the secLion. The
maximum height of a structure is 2 stories.
Section 20-1178 requires alltely screened on all sides.
trash disposal units to be comple-
Section 20-1191 requires a I0 foot strip of land between abutting
right-of-way and vehicular use areas including one tree per 40
feet and a hedge wall or berm of at least 2 feet.
Section 20-1L92 requires i nter iorwith one tree per 40 feet.
property lines to be Iandscaped
Sect ion
areas .
20-L2LL requires interior landscaping for vehicular use
Section 2C-I125 requires I parking space for each 200 square feet
of gross floor area for shopping centers.
Section 20-1303 permits one ground 1ow profile sign per street
frontage with a maximum of two signs per lot which do not exceed
80 square feet in sign display area or I feet in height. In no
case shall any lot contain 2 free standing business signs when
such signs are ground low profile or pylon signs. The BH
District permits one pylon business sign not exceeding 64 squarefeet per lot. A pylon sign greater than 64 square feet but equal
to or less than 80 square feet may be permitted upon a con-
ditional use permit. Such signs shall be located at least 10
feet from any property line and shall not exceed 20 feet in
height. The BH District also permits one wal1 business sign per
street frontage for each business occupant within a building.
The total of all wall mounted sign display areas shall not exceed
50t of the total area of the building wall and no individual
business signs shall exceed 80 square feet.
AI1 rooftop equipment must be completely screened
section 2O-L255 allows motor fuel price signs to be affixed only
to the fuel pump and that they shall not exceed four (4) square
feet.
Amoco Site Plan
September 21, 1988
Page 3
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Asst. City Engineer
Building Department
Public Safety
BRW
Fred Hoi sington
ANAI,YSIS
At tachment
At t achmen t
At t achment
Att achment
At t achmen t
*2
*3
*4
*s
#6
The site is located at the northeast corner of Hwy. 101 and ttwy.5. The site currently contains a Brown,s Standari eutomoiiveService Station with an automatic car wash. The most easterlyportion of the site is not.developed. The app).icant is propoiingto remove arl of the existing structures and- inderground' t"itrsand pipes and develop a completely new site to coniorm to ihe new
Amo co site p1an. ?he proposed sile plan contai." ". aonr"ni.rr""store with gas pumps and gas canopy, an automatic car hrash and aseparate four-stall self-serve cai wash. The proposed site planis developing the easterly area of the site.
The site plan is Iocating the convenience store, gas pumps, gascanopy and automatic car wash along the westerly portion-oi tnesite and is locating the separate telf-serve car wash at theeasterly portion of the sitL. The convenience stoie ,iit -gi"
pumps and the self serve car wash will be separated by alandscaped median. Both uses will be controiled by airoco.
The convenience store is r,030 square feet and the the applicantis proposing four gas pump island-s with a total of g fueiingpositions.
_
The gas pumps wilr permit one car on either sid6 tofuel at a time. The gas pumps lnd canopy are located on thenorth and south side of the convenience- itore (two on each side).The automotive service station is rocated north of the northerly9?s pgmps and canopy. - The applicant is also proposing two iadi_tional future pump islands lolatecl east of noith-and iouthislands. iihen the future pumps are installed the gas ;;;;pywould also be extended to cover those areas. The ipplicani'trasasked staff to review the future pump isrands at thii time ratherthan having to go through an amended site plan in the future.Staff finds no objection to the addition oi the future pumpi s lands .
Acce ss
to comment on theproject. The
service the site.
BRW and Fred Hoisington reviewed the site planplan in relat ion to the dolrntown redevelopmentapplicant is proposing two points of access to
Amoco Site PIan
September 21, 1988
Page 4
Both access points have a width of 24 feet. In the memo from
BRW, it is stated that as part of the downtoern redevelopment pro-ject, the most southerly tlriveway vras reconstruct.ed at a width of27 feet. The site plan should be amended to show the existingcondition of 27 feet vs. 24 feet. Currently, the most northe;1yaccess continues up to Gary Brown's Car Wash located just northof the site. The applicant is proposing to close off t.he accessco Garyrs Brownrs car wash and instead construct a 24 foot wide
access with curbing and landscaping on the subject site. WhenGary Brown received conditional use permit approval for the carwash in 1983, it was approved with the car wash sharing accesswith the service stat.ion (Attachment *7). As the sj.te plan isproposed, Gary Brown would have to find another means for a
second access/egress on his site. The proposed site plan is
changing the approved conditions of the car wash.
Staff is verifying with Lhe City Attorney wheEher a condition ofsite plan approval can be to maintain a shared access or at least
have Arnoco provide a plan for how Gary Brownrs site can maintaina second access,/egress. It vrould not be desirable to have accesspoints, one on Amoco site and one on Gary Brownr s site, directly
adjacent to each other. It would be preferred to combine the
access points or provide for adequate separation.
Fred Hoisington and the Assistant City Engineer have stsated thatthe southerJ.y access is in conflict with traffic going north on
Hwy. 101 from Hvry. 5. They recommended that the southerly access
and northerly access be combined to reduce the traffic conflict.
Combining the two Amoco access points will also aIlow additional
separation between Amoco and Gary Brownr s site.
AnoEher factor impacting the two access points to the Amoco sit,e
is improvements to Hwy. I01. Hwy. I01 is under the jurisdiction
of MnDOT. Along with the plans for Hwy. 5 improvement.s, MnDoT is
proposing to construct a cenEer lane median on Hwy. iol from Hwy.
5 to just south of the railroad tracks. The median would be con-
tinuous with no median cuts to provide for left hand turning
movement. The proposed median will impact businesses locateii on
West 79th Street and the Amoco site. Staff has contacted MnDoT
concerning the median and has requested that MnDOT review
possible alternatives. One alternative which may be permitted
would be one median cut directly across from west 79th Street.
The applicant has stated that if no meilian cuts are permitted
that t.hey would leave the site as it exists with no improvements.
If MnDoT allows the one median cut, the site plan would have to
be amended. Staff has explained to the applicant that until the
median issue is resolved, it woulal be difficult to move aheadwith Ehe site plan review since this will affect the proposed
site p1an. The applicant has stated that they want to move for-
ward with the application because they feel confident tha! they
Amoco Site Plan
September 21, 1988
Page 5
will be able to maintain the two access points and if they must
combine them, it woul-d be a minor impact to the site p1an.
As part of the improvements to Hr,vy. 5 anal the 10I median, MnDOTwill be requiring additional right-of-way along Hwy. 5 and 10I.
MnDOT has stated that there is adequate right-of-r,/ay provided onHwy. 5 for the improvements but that there would be additionalright-of-way required along Hwy. 101. MnDOT cannot state how
much right-of-r^ray will be required at this time until the medianon Hwy. 10I has been resolved and designed. The additionalright-of-way from Hwy. 101 will also impact the site.
Landscaping, Parking and Setbacks
The applicant is required to provide a 25 foot setback from Hwy.I01 and Hwy. 5 and a 10 foot setback from the most northerlyproperty 1ine. The setbacks include building, oarking and vehi-cular areas. The applicant is providing the 10 foot setback fromthe northerly property line that but has located vehicular areaswithin the 25 foot setback from Hwy. 101 and 5. The applicant
has stated that they interpretted the ordinance to read that nobuilding or parking areas could be located within the 25 footsetback and has maintained the required setbacks. Staff hasalways required all vehicular areas to maintain the required set-
backs so that there is a 25 foot setback used for l-andscaping andgreen space. If vehicular areas are not included in the setback,there could be impervious surface up to all lot 1ines. Staff is
recommending that the applicanL provide an amended site plan withall impervious areas meeting the 25 foot setback. Should thePlanning Commission and City Council feel that what the applicantis proposing is acceptable, they may grant a variance to the set-
backs.
The applicant is providing 4 parking spaces. According to theordinance, the applicant would be required to provide one parking
space per 200 feet of retail area which would equal 5 parkingspaces. The applicant must therefore provide one additionalparking space, for a total of five parking spaces, one of which
must be a handicapped space.
The applicant is providing Iandscaping around the perimeter ofthe site and on the island separating the self serve car wash andconvenience store. The applicant is showing landscaping on thecenter island along Hwy. 101 between the two access points. Aspart of the downtown redevelopment project, three trees have beenplanted along this island. The plan should be amended to showthe existing vegetation. The applicant is required to provide a2 fool- hedge or berm between the vehicular area and street right-of-ways. This berm or hedge has not been provided along Hwy. 101or 5 and an amended plan must be submitted. The ordinance alsorequires the perimeter landscaping to contain l tree per 40 feet..It appears that in some areas the 40 foot separation is not being
met and an amended landscaping plan should provide one tree per40 feet. In addition, the. ordinance requires 50t winter opaiityEo be provided. The majority of the trees are deciduous withsome spruce being provided north of the automatic car wash, northof the self serve car wash and along the easterly portion of thesite. Staff is recomrnending that additional eveigreens be pro-vided to maintain a 50t winter opacity.
Amoco Site Plan
September 2I, 1988
Page 6
Liqhtin g, Siqnage and T rash Enclosures
The applicant is providing lighting standards throughout thesite. Page 4 of the site plan illustrates the exteit of thelight seen from the site. The applicant is also proposingrecessed lighting in the canopy areas to further reduce lightimpact to surrounding properties. The Iighting plan shords thatthe impact to surrounding properties is ninimal ind should norconflict with traffic on Hrdy. 5. The lighting does extend intoHwy. 101. The light fixtures should be relocated or redirectedto reduce the amount of light entering onto H!ry. 101 to reduceany conflicts r,vith the traffic. Also, extending the lightingfixtures should match those with Lhe downtown project.
The applicant is proposing to maintain the existing pylon sign,three wa1l signs approxinately nine square feet in size each onthe northwest and south side of the convenience store, one vrallsign 8.5 square feet on the south side of the automatic car wash,and three canopy signs, each approximately 11.7 square feetIocated on the east/west and south siale of the southerly gas
canopy.
The ordinance allows one wall sign per st.reet frontage Eor eachbusiness occupant within a buililing. Therefore, the applicant isonly permitted Ewo wall signs on the convenience store. Theapplicant is proposing three wal1 signs and one of them must beremoved. The wa11 signs on the convenience store are proposed at9.3 square feet which meet the requirement of 15t or less of thewall area. The waII sign for the automatic car wash also meetsthe requirenent of I53 or less of the wall area. The ordinanceonly permits motor fuel price signs within the gas pumps area.
Gas canopy signs have not been permitted as other sites(SuperAmerica and Holiday, etc.) and should not be permitted forthe Amoco site.
The applicant is proposing to have one brick trash enclosure
Located in the median between the self-serve car wash and the
convenience store. The trash enclosure is screened on all sidesrdith a brick wall and a wood fence entrance and is also
landscaped.
Gradinq, Draina qe, Utilities, Access and CircuLation
In his attached memo, the Assistantgrading, d.rainage, and utilities of
City Engineer address
the site and also addresses
Amoco Site Plan
September 21, 1988
Page 7
access and circulation (Attachment *2).
Summary
RECOMMENDATION
Planning staff recommends that
f oJ.Iowing motion:
The nost southerly access point to the site from H!ry. I01 is inconflict with traffic leaving Hwy.5 and going north on Hwy. I01.The. two access points are also in conflict with the ttwy. lblmedian and Gary Brownts site. Staff is recommending that actionon the site pran be tabled untir these issues are resolved and itis clear where access points are permitted and how much addi-tional right-of-way is required.
the Planning Commission adopt the
"The Planning Cornmission recommends tableing actionReview No. 88-11 until the issues with the ttighwayadditional right-of-way and Gary Bror,rnrs access are
Attachments
Excerpts from zoning ordinance.
Memo from Asst. City Engineer dated September
Memo from Building Dept. dated September 12,
Memo from Public Safety dated August 2, l9gg.Letter from BRW Cated September 15, 1988.Letter from Fred Hoisington dated September 9Site Plan for Gary Brownrs car wash.Site Plan dated September 2, 1989.
on Site Plan
101 median,
resolved. "
L
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
14, 1988.
1988.
r988.
o
o
b. For rear yards, thirty (30) feet.c. For side yards, frlteen OS) feet.
(7) The maximum height is as follows:
a. For the principal structure, one (l) story.b. For accessory structures, one (1) story.(Ord. No. 80, Arr. V, $ 10(5-rO-S), 12-15-86)
Secs. 2Mg6-2G,?10. Reserved.
ARTICLE XVII.'BH'' HIGHWAY AND BUSINESS SERVICES DISIRICT
* 20-7 t2
The intent of the "BH" District
-is
to provide for highway oriented commerciar d.evelop.ment restricted to a low building profile.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ r1(5-tr-r), 12-15.86)
*c. 2O-712. Permitted uses-
The following uses are permitted in a ,,BH,. District:
(1) Financialinstitutions.
(2) Fast food restaurant.
(3) Automotive service stations.
(4) Standardrestaurants.
(5) Motels and hotels_
(6) Offices.
(7) Retail shops.
(8) Miniature golf.
(9) State-licensed day care center.
(10) Car wash.
(11) Convenience store with or without gas pumps.
(12) Personal serviceestablishment.
(13) Liquor stores.
(14) Health services.
(15) Utility services.
(16) Shopping center.o
1277 +t
ZONING
Sec. 2G?ll. Intent.
$ 20-712 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
(17) Private clubs and lodges.
(18) Community center-
(19) Funeral homes.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 11(5-11-2), 12-1546)
Sec. 2G713. Permitted accessory uses.
The following are permitted accessory uses in a ,.BH" District:
(1) Siens.
(2) Parkiug lots.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 11(5-11-3), 12.18-86)
Slec. 20.714. Conditional uses.
The following are conditional uses in a ,,8H" District:
(1) Outdoor display of merchandise for sale.
(2) Supermarkets.
(3) Small vehicle saies.
(4) Screened outdoor storage.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ r1(5-114), 12-15-86)
State law reference-Conditional uses, M.S. $ 462.8895.
Sec. 20.715. Lot requirements and setbacks.
The following minimum requirements shall be observed in a .,BH,, District subject to
additional requirements, exceptions and modifications set forth in this chapter:
(1) The minimum district area is ten (10) acres. This paragraph may be waived by a
condition use permit in the case of expansion of an existing district.
o
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o
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
(6)
Ihe minimum lot area is twenty thousand (20,000) squafe feet,
The minimum lot frontage is one hundred 000) feet, except that lots fronting on a
culde-sac shall have a minimum frontage in all districls of sixty (60) feet.
The minimum lot depth is one hundred fifty (150) feet.
The maximum lot coverage is sixty-live (6i) percent.
Off-street parking areas shall comply with all yard requirements of this section,
except that no rear yard parking setback shall be required for lots directly abutting
railroad trackage; and, no side yard shall be required when adjoining commercial
uses establish joint off-street parking facilities, as provided in section 20-1122, except
that no parking areas shall be permitted in any required side street side yard.
Minimum rear yard shall be fifty (50) feet for lots directly abutting any residential
r218
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ZONING I20-732
district. Side street side yards shall be a minimum of twenty-frve (25) feet. Other
setbacks are as follows:
a. For front yards, twenty-frve (25) feet.
b. For rear yards, twenty (20) feet.
c. For side yards, ten (10) feet.
(7) The maximum height is as follows
a. For the principal structure, two (2) stories.
b. For accessory structures, one (1) story.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 1r(5-11-5), 12-15-86)
Secs. 2G716-2G730. Reserved.
ARTICLE XVIII. *CBD" CEI{TRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT
Sec. 2G731. Intent.
The intent of the "CBD" District is to provide for dotmtown business development
supporting a strong central business district while enhancing the overall character of the
community in conformance with downtown redevelopment plan, goals and objectives.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 12(5-12-r), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2G,732. Permitted uses.
The following uses are permitted in a "CBD" District:
(1) Bowling center.
(2) Retail shops.
(3) Offices.
(4) Standardrestaurants.
(5) Liquor stores.
(6) Entertainment.
(7) Convention and conference facilities.
(8) Financialinstitutions-
(9) Health care facilities.
(10) Hotels.
(11) Speciu11, r"tail (including but not limited to jewelry, book, stationery, bible, camera,
pets, arts and crafts, sporting goods).
(12) Supermarkets.
1219
o
?
o
o
ZONING $ 20-1125
Mortuaries-One 0.) space for every three (3) seats.
Motel or hotel-One (1) parking space for each rental room or suite, plus one 0) spacefor every two (2) employees.
Ofice buildings (administrative, business or professional)_Three (3) parking spacesfor each one thousand (1,000) square feet offloor area.
(15) Public service bu,dings, including municipar administration bu,dings, cornmunitycenter, public library, museum. art galleries, and post offrce_One 0)-parkr"; ;;;;for each five hunrired (500) square feet of floor area in the principal structure, pluaone 0) parking space for each four (4) rests urithin public assembly or meeting rooms.(16) Recreational facilities, including golf course, country club, swimming club, racquetclub, public swimming poof_Twenty (20) spaces, pi.r" on" (1) space for each frvehundred (500) square feet offloor area in the prrncip'Jstructure or two (2) spaces percourt.
(17) Research' experimental or testing stations-one') parking space for each frve hun.dred (800) square feet of gross floor area within tfr" i,_,ifiing, whichever is greater.
(18) Restaurant, cafe, nightclub, tavern or bar:
a. Fast food-One (1) space per sixty (60) square feet of gross floor area.b. Restaurant:
1- withour full liquor license_One (1) space per sixty (60) square feet of grossfloor area or one (l) space per t*o ,rrd one_half (2h) s€ats whichever isgreater.
2. With full liquor license_One (1) space per hfty (b0) square feet of gross floorarea or one (l) space per rwo (2) seats whichever is great€r.
(19) Retail stores and service establishmen*_One (1) space for each two hun&ed (200)square feet of gross floor area.
(20) School, elementary (public, private or parochial!_One (1) parking space for eachclassroom or oIfice room, plus one (1) space for each o.re hundred frlty OS0) squarefeet of eating area including aisles, in any .rdi;; or grmnasium or cafeteriaintended to be used as an auditorium.
(21) School, junior and senior high schools and colleges (public, private or parochial_Four(4) parking spaces for each crassroom o. om""-.oo- pius one t) space for each onehundred fifty (150) square feet of seating ar"a ir,"traiif ai"t"s, in any auditorium orgymnasium or cafeteria intended to be used as an auditrium.
(22) shopping center-on'site automobile parking shall be provided in a ratio of not lessthan one (1) parking space-for eact t*o t,rrral"a tzooi"lqr""" f".t or gross floor area;separate on-site space shall be provided for loading and unloading.
(23) Storage, wholesale, or warehouse establishments_One
')
space for each one thou.sand ( l'000) square feet of gross floor area up to ten thousand 00,000) squa"e f""t ..ione (l) additional space for each additional two thousand (2,000) square feet plus one
t249
(r2)
(13)
(r4)
o
$ 20-1179 CHANHASSEN CMY CODE
DTVISION 2. PERIMETER LANDSCAPING REQUIREMEI{TS
Sec. 2Gf19l. Generally.
(a) Where parking areas are not entirely screened visually by an intervening building or
structure from any abutting rightof-way, there shall be provided landscaping between such
area and such rightof-way as follows:
(1) A strip of land at least ten (10) feet in depth located between the abutting rightof-
way and the vehicular use area which shall be landscaped to include an average of
one (1) tree for each forty (40) linear feet or fraction thereof. Such trees shall be
located between the abutting right-of-way and the vehicular use area.
(2) In addition, a hedge, wall, berm, or other opaque durable landscape barrier of at least
two (2) feet in height shall be placed along the entire length of the vehicular use area.
If such opaque durable barrier is of nonliving material, a shrub or vine shall be
planted along the street side of said barrier and be planted in such a manner to break
up the expanse of the wall. A two-foot berm may be used; however, additional
landscaping at least one (1) foot in height at time of planting shall be installed. The
remainder of the required lan&cape areas shall be landscaped with grass, ground
cover, or other landscape treatment.
(b) This division applies to perimeter landscaping.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, $ 2(8-2.1), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2Gll92. Required landscaping adjacent to interior property lines.
(a) Where parking areas abut property zoned or, in fact, used primarily for residential or
.institutional purposes, that portion of such area not entirely screened visually by an interven-
ing structure or existing corforming bufler from an abutting property, there shall be provided
a landscaped buffer which should be maintained and replaced as neded. Such landscaped
buffer shall consist of plant material, wall, or other durable barrier at least six (6) feet in
height measured from the median elevation ofthe parking area closest to the common lot line,
and be located between the common lot line and the off-street parking areas or other vehicular
use area expos€d to the abutting property. Fences shall be constructed according to the
standards in section 20-1018.
o
o
r254
o
(5) The removal of diseased and damaged trees is permissible.
(d) TYee removal not permitted under subdivision, planned unit development or site plan
review shall not be allowed without the approval of a tree removal plan by the city council.
Tlee removal plans shall include the content requirements as dictated in section 20-1127 and
identify reasons for tree removal. The plan shall be submitted three (3) weeks in advance of
the city council at which it is to be considered.
(e) This section does not apply to single-family and two-family lots of record.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, $ 7, 12-15-86)
Secs. 2G1180-2G,1190. Reserved.
o
o
ZONING E 20-7212
(b) In addition. an average of one (l) tree shall be provided for each forty (40) linear feet ofsuch parking area or fractional part thereof. such trees shall be located between the commonlot line and the off-street parking area or other vehicut", *" *"..
(c) where such area abuts property zoned and, in fact, used for office, commercial, orindustrial purposes' that portion of area not enr""ty s""".,"a visually by an int€rveningstructure or existing conforming bufer, shall comply with the tree provisio; _, ;;;scribed in this section.
(Ord. No. 80, Arr. VlI, i 2(8-2.2), 12-15-86)
Sec. 20-ll93. Combi,rirrg with easenerts.
The required landscape bufferyard may be combined with a utility or other easement aslong as arl of the landscape rcquirements can be furty met, otherwise, the raadscape bufleryardshall be provided in addition to, and separate from,;"r;;;;,
""""-ent. Cars or other objectsshall not overhang or otherwise intrude upon tir" ""qoi""J uoa"cape bu.freryard more trrautwo and one-haU (2") feet and curbs will be required.(Ord. No. 80, Arr. VItr, $ 2(8-2-g), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2Gllg4. n-isririg laldscape mat€rial.
Existing randscape material shall be shown on the required pran and any matcrial iusatisfactory condition may be used to satisfy these requiremlnts in whole or in part.(Ord. No. 80, Art. VItr, g 2(S_24),12_15€6)
Secs. 2G1196-2G1210. Reserved.
DTVISION 3. INIERIOR LANDSCAPING FOR VEIIICI'LAR USE AREAS
Sec. 2Gl2ll. Geaerally.
(a) Any open vehicular use area (excluding loading, unloading, and storage areas in theIoP and BG districts) containing more than six thousro-J {e,ooo) "qo."" feet of area, or twentv(20) o-r more vehicular parking spaces, shall provide ioturio. tarr-a1Jpi;il;;;"#":#ithis division in addition to "perimeter" randscaping. Interior tandscaping may be peninsularor island types.
.^ _(b) This division applies to interior landscaping of such areas.(Ord. No. 80, Arr. Vm, $ g, 12-18-86)
Sec. 2Gl2l2. Laadscape area.
(a) For each one hun&ed
'00)
square feet, or fraction thereof, of vehicurar use area, frve(5) square feet of landscaped area shall be provided.
(b) The minimum landscaps area permitted shall be sixty-four (64) square feet, with afour-foot minimum dimension to a, trees from edge ofpave.ent where vehicres overhang.
1255
o
o ZONING
Sec. 2G1255. Signs allowed without permit.
The following sigrs are allowed without a permit:
(1) Campaign signs, not exceeding twenty-four (24) square feet in area. The sign must
contain the name of the person responsible for such sign, and that person shall be
responsible for its rernoval. such signs shall remain for no longer than seventy-live
(75) days in any calendar year. The city shall have the right to remove and. destroy
signs not conforrning to this paragraph-
(2) Directional signs.
o (4)
(5)
(6)
(3)
(7)
(8)
(9)
(10)
a. On-premises sigrrs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The number of
signs shall not exceed four (4) unless approved by the city council.
b. Off-premises signs shall be allowed only in situations where access is confusing
and tralfic safety could be jeopardized or traffrc could be inappropriately routed
through residential streets. The size of the sign shall be approved by the city
council and shall contain no advertising.
Sigrrs or displays which contain or depict a message pertaining to a religious, nation-
al, state or local holiday and no other matter and which are displayed for a period not
to exceed seventy-five (75) days in any calendar year.
Informational signs not exceeding sixteen (16) square feet.
Integral signs.
Motor fuel price signs are permitted on the premises of any automobile service
station only ifsuch signs are affrxed to the fuel pumps or are made an integral part of
a ground low profile or pylon business sign otherwise permitted in that zoning
district. Motor fuel price signs allixed to a fuel pump shall not exceed four (4) square
feet in sign display area. When such signs are made an integral part ofa freestand.ing
business sign, the sign display area devoted to the price component shall not exceed
thirty (30) percent of the total sign display area of the sigrr.
Nameplate signs not exceeding two (2) square feet.
Nonilluminated construction signs confrned to the site of the construction, alt€ration
or repair. Such a sign must be removed within one (1) year of the date of issuance of
the first building permit on the site and may be extended on an annual basis. One 0)
sigrr shall be permitted for each street the project abuts. Commercial and industrial
signs may not exceed fifty (50) square feet in sign area, and residential construction
signs may not exceed twenty-four (24) square feet in sigr area.
O.S.H.A. signs.
Sigrrs ofa public, noncommercial nature erected by a governmental entity or agency
including safety signs, directional signs to public facilities, trespassing signs, trafic
signs, sigrrs indicating scenic or historical points of interest, memorial plaques and
the like.o
1261
z
$ 20-1255
o
e
o
1268
S 20-1301 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
colrector street as designated as such in this chapter- such sign shall be located so asnot to conllict with trallic visibility or street maintet
securely anchored to the ground. nance operations' and shall be
(Ord. No. 80, Art. IX, S E, 12-15-86)
Sec. 2GlB02. Neighborhood business and institutional districts.
The following signs shall be allowed by permit in any OI or B-l District:(1) Ground low profile business signs. One (l) ground low profile business or institu_tional sigrr not exceeding twenty-four (2a) sq-uare feet of sigrl display area shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot, Suchsign shall be located at reast ten ,0) feet from any p"ope"ty tio" und sha, not exceedfrve (5) feet in height.
(2) Wall business sigrr. one') wall business sign shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. The total of all wall mounted signdisplay area shall not exceed ten {fOl pe.cent ofitre total area of each building wallupon which the signs are mounted, but no individual business sign shalr exceedtwenty-four (2.r) square feet in sign display area. A walr business sign shalr not be .
mounted upon the wall ofany building which faces any adjoining residential districtwithout an intervening public street.(Ord. No. 80, Arr. IX, $ Z, r2-t5_86)
Sec. 2Gl30g. Highway and general business districts.
The following sigas shall be allowed by permit in any BH, BG, or BF District:(l) Ground low profile business sigus. One (1) ground low profile business sigrr shall bepermitted per street frontage, with a maximum of two (2) such signs per lot. Suchsigns shall not exceed eighty (g0) square feet in sign dispray area .ror be great€r thatreight (8) feet in height. Such signs "t.tt U" to"ai"i rt leasr ten (10) feet from anyproperty line. In no case shall any lot contain more than two (2) freestanding businesssigrrs, whether such signs are pylon or ground lo* p.ont"
"igrr"-(2) &lon business sign. One (l) pylon business sign, not exceeding sixty.four (64) squarefeet in sign display area, shall be permitred;;; i;;. ; pylon business sisn girea,urthan sixty-four t64) square feet, but equal to o" 1".. tiur,
"ighty
(g0) square feet, maybe permitted after securing a conditional ,"","" ri.i,r"f, signs shall be located atleast ten (10) feet from any property line, and shall not exceed twenty (20) feet inheight' In no case sha' any lot contur., mo"u thao t.uo (2) freestanding business signs,whether such signs are pylon or ground l"* p""frl; ";.(3) WalI business signs. one ,) rva, business sigrr shall be permitted per street frontagefor each business occupant within a building. n " totrt of all wall mounted sigrldisplay area shall not exceed fiftee" trst per""it oitf,"Ltat ar"a ofthe building wallupon which the signs are mounted- No individual business sign shall exceed eighty(80) square feet in sig,, disptay r.".. a;;ii;;:;;; may be mounted upon anywall of a principal building.
EHINHISSEN
},TEUORANDUU
TO: Planning Commi ssion
FROM: Larry Brown, Staff Engineer
DATE: September 14, 1988
SUBJ: Site Plan Review, Amoco Service
File i'lo. 88-II Site P1an, Amoco
Stat ion
Corporat ion
This site is located on the northeast corner of State Highways 5
and 101. The site er<ists as Gary Broernrs service station.
The application submitted caIIs for the reconstruction
exisling service station and the addition of the 4-bay
car wash proposed on the east end of the site.
In light of BRW's participation in the design and
the streets aod utilities adjacent to this parcel ,
requested that they review this application as it
downtown project (refer to Attachment *1). I have
BRw's colunents into the content of this report.
of the
seI f-serve
construction of
staff hasrelates to the
incorporated
Sanitary Sewer
Hz
CITY OF
)pv///
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Municipal sanitary sewer service is available to the site by the
existing 10-inch diameter sanitary sewer main located on the
northerly boundary of the site. The plans show three A-inch
dianeter sewer services (gas station, single bay car wash and
4-bay car wash) flowing into the existing 6-inch PVC servicepipe. The 6-inch sanitary sewer service has a;t€,e been analyzed
to ensure that adequate capacity exists for each 4-inch tliameter
service. We find that the existing service will accommodate the
intended use -
Both of the proposed car ,rashes are located approximately 7 feet
south of the existing sanitary sewer line. Although the
buildings are outside of the existing 15-foot utility easement,
replacement of the sanitary sewer main would endanger the foun-
dations of the building. It is recommended that the buildings be
moved to the south 5 feet to ensure the safety of the buildings.
Planning Commission
September 14, I9 88
Page 2
Waterma i n
The Minnesota Plumbing Code states that the sanitary sewer ser-vices must have an inflammable waste separator prio-r todischarging into the public sanitary sewer mainl Details forthe inflammable waste separator shall be submitted for approvalto the City Engineer prior to final approval.
Municipal water service is available to the site from the lO-inchdiameter watermain which was constructed on Trunk Highway 10r aspart of the downtown
_
recons truct ion project. The plin a-ccuratelyshor.rs the location of the two water services which were extendedto the property boundary. It should be noted that the servicesthat have been extended are 1-inch diameter services versus theconnection proposed for the buildings as a 1l-inch diameter waterservice. rt is recommended that the proposed serf-serve car washtake water service from the 8-inch diimeter watermain rocatedadjacent to the northwest corner of the site. This would reducethe length of service and provide a separate service for the carwash.
Acces s
The site plan is proposing to have tero driveways in the locationas they presently exist. The applicant should be aware thaL
{IDOT i? proposing a center island along Trunk Highway I0I fromState Highway 5 to a point 400 feet norlh on I0]..- This is1,and,as proposed, does not have any island cuts to permit a left-handturning movement from the Amoco site onto Stat-e Highway I0l(refer to Attachment *2). In addition, MnDOT has indiiated tostaff that the southerly driver/ray will interfere with the rightturn lane for the westbound State Highr{ay 5 traffic onto StateHighway 10I northbound. As stated in ttre attached memo from Mr.Fred loisington, the City's consultant, MnDOT and the City havethe right to control access from the Amoco site to one drivewayif reconstructed (refer to Attachment #3).
Since the proposed 400-foot long center island for StaLe Highway101 would also have an impact to ttre existing ana anticipiiEabusioesses along hlest 79th Street, staff and Fred Hoisin;to; havebeen working with MnDOT to review the possibi lity of qet[inq acenter island cut which would be in line witn tfre exiSting 6est79th Street. If MnDOT would allow the center island cut,-slaftwourd be recommending that the proposed entrance and exii for theAmoco site be limited to one which would faIl in line with iheaccepted island cut and erest 79th street. This hrould decreasethe number of traffic conflict points within this area.
If the City is not successful in gaining the island cut asdiscussed, the applicant has indilated lnat ttrey wiIl not pursuethis application and leave the existing amoco s-ite as is.'
Access for the proposed car wash located on the east side of thesite is less than desirable. A car trying to enter the southerlycar wash bay does not have adequate room to negotiate this turn.This i{as analyzed using a design passenger vehicle only (refer toAttachment *4). ALl the car wash bays should have adequate roomto alIow uninterrupted traffic movements for access and exits.
Planning Commi ss ion
September 14, L988
Page 3
The plan also proposes to have a center island for the divisionof the ti{o-way traffic from the car wash. This island should berevised to ensure that traffic is routed to the north such thatgreater separation between Highways 5 and l0I exist for exitingtraffic from the site ( refer to Attachment *5). The plan alsoproposes a curb radius on the northerly access from the serviceStation to State Highway 101. The dor.rn t or^rn construction plans
had originally called for this type of access to be constructedas part of the Dovrntown Redevelopment projecti however, the ownerof the existing gas station objected. The plans for the downtownwere revised to include an open driveway apron to the car wash onthe north. The plans should be revised to indicate the detailsfor finishing oi the curb radius in this area prior to finalreview. The driveway constructed as part of the Dovrntown
Redevelopment is a mooolithic slab which will be difficult to
change or make additions to.
It should also be noted that with the widening of Highway 5,
MnDOT wilf require additional easement area. !,lritten commentsfrom MnDOT have not been received to
r ight-of -!'ray r^riII be required.
verify how much addi t ional
Grading and Draina ge
The plans call for a 2-foot wide curb cut on the south side ofthe property which r,riIl outlet drainage to the existing drainage
swale along State ttighway 5. This plan does not provide any pro-tection from oil runoff from the proposed parking Iot. It isalso likely that MnDOT wiII eliminate a portion of this ilrainagecapacity through the widening of Highway 5.
The westerly t$ro-thirds of this site has been accommodaLed
through the Dohrntor.rn Redevelopment drainage plan. It is
recommended, that the plans be revised to incorporate a stormsewer system which would drain into the City system andultimately through the Cityrs downtown ponding site.
The plan also proposes that a 0.3t grade be constructed for theexit of the automatic car wash, This grade is very flat and may
cause some difficulty with icing up near the access onto l0I asthe cars exit from the automati.c car $rash in the wintertime. Itis recommended that the elevation of the automatice car wash beraised such that a steeper slope may be construction aL the exitto accommodate the anticipated drainage.
lanning Commission
September 14, I9 88
Page 4
Erosion Control
The plans do not address erosioncontrol plan shall be submittedfinal review.
control. A revi sedto the City Engineer
eros ionprior to
The- issue regarding the center island cut on State Highway I01will have a great impact to the layout and traffic ciiculitionfor this site. Staff is recommending that this item Ue tiUieauntil this issue can be resolved. Ai mentioned previously, theCityrs consultant, Fred Hoisington, is working ,itt UnoOt'ioaddress this issue. Until this issue can be iesolved, stafifeels that it is unreasonable to approve this plan.
It is therefore recommended that this plan be tabted untiL thecenter island issues of State trunk Aighway 101 be resolved.
l,lemo f rom Gary Ehret ( BRW) dated
Diagram of island - itighway 10I.
Memo from Fred Hoisington datedTurning radii diagrarn.Island diagram - Amoco site.
September 15, 1988.
September 9, 1988.
I
2
3
4
5
Attachments
!i-lt ^r I .
BolfErr R CnosE !.Jo_sfEJ, JARIS 6.rp!NEA. trrc . THESI|EF SQU^aE . 7@ IHEO ST SO . t rNNgApot-€ MA :,5tt5 , pH_ 612/370.0?6 i^r: 6rz37ct3?E
Joann 0l sen
Assistant City Planner
City of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Orive
Chanhassen, !,lN 85317
RE: Site Review
Amoco 0il Company Submlttal
ffilu$qn
Dear Joann,
As you requested, ye have revieved the site oStation for general compliance with City of bticular, to establish consistency vith iecent
Downtown Redevel opment Project. In this rega
o Site PIan
PLANNIh(;tRruspcrrerro
ENGINEEBING
ARCHIIECTURE
It is our understanding that two acces
Boulevard does not reflect current TH
by MnD0T. These driveways must be coocurent p l ans.
lan submittal for the Amoco 0ll
hanhassen standards and ln par-
improvements made during the
rd rre offer the follow'ing corflnents:
s points off TH 101/Great Plains
5 deslgn upgrades belng completed
rdinated wtth l{nDoT and their
1
?,
3.
4.
olvrJ J SErN€lt
CrOal :.o a. hu\ll
The southerly access drlveway s/as reconstructed under the downtou,nproject t0 a yidth of ?7t-0t, not 24,-0n, as shown.
The northerly access dtlveway t.,as reconstructed under the downtot n pro-
Ject to an overall uidth of 60 feet, lrhlch ls a monollthlc concretepour rrith the car uash.
If the.proposal is to construct a nefl apron wldth of 24,-0,' as shown,reconstruction of the car uash drlveuay ulll be necessary and should be
shown on the pl ans.
Applicant should be aware of and recognlze ln thelr plans a future'lsland which is proposed by MnD0T for construction oh TH 1Ol.
It appears as though a passenger vehtcle wllI have dtfftcutty tn makingturning movement into or out of the most southerly stall at ihe manual-car uash-
3)i{aLOvJ RnGSl)€E fflc'J3eo p $C!SF:!O pErEfi€ JAa\rS LAI/rENcEJGAFotrEi Iho|J SiClaaOL!
MAFX G sa/Etl:Orr JCtlN 5 rrc.dlr AA ATCHAAO O aL6Rtv O{€ gec
^.lir
CEAxi A aMUnt)C,€N
CENNSJ SiTiUFF
MINNEAFOUS ST PETERSBURG OENVER TTJCSON PfloEI.JX
September 15, 1988
5.
*1
Joann 0l sen
September 15, 196E
Page 2
o Gradi n s Plan
1 Is the proposed drainaoe.from the two_foot wide curb opening on thesouth side of the orooErtv.consiitini ;i;; MffiT tmprovements? Isd*ect drainase inlo trre-irtiri iiiilidi;; "iilI. ... carch bas.rnsconstructed by the doyntown proJect'wrrictr couii'Ue connected to forextension of an on-stre stori iEwji ;i;iem;-'''
fhe 0.3 percent orade fron the autonatic car uash ex.tt ls very flat.rhts may cause s6me dirflcuiiy ;iii"'i;i;s-;; iiiter conaitions.
The_utiliiles appear to correcily correlate with the uilliilesconstructed under the dovntown rrp;;ierini-p.Jjl.t.
2
3.
o Landsca e Pl an
1 According to Arilcle VIII, Section 2. of the chanhassen Zoningordlnance, there must be an_average of one (l) tree every 40 linealfeet of vehtcle use area. ln ioJiiron,-iir).rriorru be a two (2) f::T-9r gpaque hectge to screen use. 16itfrii-oi'rhese issues have b400 res sed.
]ff,r#!:::. tree sizes and variefies are consistenr utth city
Additionar screeninq should. be provrded at the automatic car wash entrv
i:,;'fi i'.i:l8ll:ll'.,ilil ;:',::l::;ll.,ii,jlil. iji:ii.;lii:,iii,:ii]"
duous tree. ),
Plantings in the island algng.g!-eg! plains Boutevard should be coor_dinated utth and consistent irin-u,e'piiiiiriil'lorpleted by the down_tolrn project. Noruay Mapte or nea oa'r'ioril'i.'.onrrrtent.
oot
een
2.
3.
4.
oSl na e/Lt htln P'lan
2.
I
l.:;:tlr::.3i'35 square reet or sisnase plus the exrsfins pvron slsn
Canopy 1196g5 should not be vlslbte from off_site.
fr: !l : lighilng fixtures_consistent with C.tty standards?submittal details avauabre t6 i,liir.l."[r,ii"it.r.
3.
There are no
SEP 15 'EB 1{::E ERI,] II]C.
Joann 0l sen
Sept€mber 15, 1988
Page 3
o General Corments
If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact either JimLasher or me.
Slncerely,
-RINGROS VIS-GARDNER, INC.
yA.ret
nagerProj ec
GAE/ sK
Detai ls have not been lncluded on the uillitJes, such as material types andconnection detalls. lle assume that these wlll be provided with a siparateconstruction document submi ttal
lle reallze that some of the ltems uhlch are proposed and cormented oil herein are
Am0c0 0i'l Conpany standards, and therefore, further consideration may beapproprlate (i.0., anount of slgnage).
t
N
W €c'T 79 th -r>
1/
PROPOSED ISLAND
<_oco
ISLAND 6
.r'$tN'{
c)
47.
\_
Hoisington Group lnc
Land use Consultants
Ms. Jo Ann 01son
Assistant City PIa n nerCity of Chanhas se n
690 Coulter Dri ve
Chanhassen, MN 55317
SepLember 9, 1988
clIY 0F C!liltr!l$$$tf{
lRlEt?Fntrnrr
SEP 1o tgg8
Re: Anoco Site Plan (88-11)HtGtltEERllG 0tPI.
Ann:
Since others r.ri11 revieH the Anoco Site Plan in itsentireLy, I will limit ny remarks to the i.ssue of access toState Trunk Highway 101 or Great Plains Boulevard.
As you are aware, MnDOT is in the process of designing a
nedian for Great Plains Boulevard Lhat will extend from
Highway 5 nearly to the railroad tracks. No openings are
proposed whi-ch means that access Eo the existing properties
on both sides of Great. Plains Boulevard wil l be restricted.
I would have to say EhaE while I undersLand whar MnDOT is
at.ternpLinB Eo achieve, some consideration has Eo be given to
t.he tlighvay Business land uses lying along l{est 79th Street
and thei-r need to be served by the exisEing Highway 5
traf f j.c flow. I believe we should work with MnDOT Eo try to
get one opening in the nedian at West 79th Street nhere all
naneuvers can be accommodated.
The Anoco proposal calls for two accesses including the
movemenL of the southerly drivevay even further to Lhe south
vhere it will- inrerfere viEh t.he righL-turn lane fron Hwy 5onto Great Plains Boulevard. This proposal 1s a totally'unaccept.able one from a traffic st.andpoint and suggesEs thaEthere ought to be but one access to the proposed new Aurocostation which access would be locat.ed opposite the presenE
I{est. 79lh StreeE intersection. Whether or not Ehe mediancut is allowed by MnDoT, we would not wanL to have two'drives connecEing Ehe Amoco staEion to Great PlainsBoulevard as shown on the proposed site p1an.
It is my undersEanding that so long as the Amoco station
remains as is, iL is enEitled to retain its presenE Euo
driveway entrances to GreaL Pla j-ns Boulevard. Given that
they are Soing Eo Eotally rebuild rhe subject site, the City
and MnD0r has Lhe richt[I $P,Ulffillffihs ro jusr one
MEGEIUEO
' 73OO Metro Btvd
Suite 525
Edlna. MN 55435
(6r2) 835-9960
sEP 13 i98A
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driveway uiEhout having Eo provlde compensation for the lossof access. It is important. to no Ee Eh;L Ehe nedian, uith;;lopenings, does not consEitut.e severence of acces;-;;.;;;--;;'conpensat.ion to eiE.her Amoco or the owers along I,Iest 79thSt.reeE. Since we have Ehe ability eo iip.or" the situat.ionin conjunction vith Ehe proposed redevelopnent of the Anocosite, iE r{i11 be exErenely important. that we creat.e Ehe bestaccess improvetlienEs possible.
t/hile no t- idea1, we strongly- recommend EhaE a singledriveway be approved t.o bJ i1:.gnua triit -rn. llesE 79r.h sEreetinEersect.ion. lJe must. work uiih Amoco to encourage MnDOT Eoprovide a rnedian cur at .haE locaEion. Until .hif ,;,;;; i;resolved-, and recognizing Ehat changes to the site plan wi-iihave to be rirade to refleit a single"driveway, I reconnendconEinuat.ion of the request.
Sincerely,
F re d Iloisington
ConsulEant
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MEMORANDUM
TO3
FROM:
DATE :
SUBJ :
JoAnn O1sen, Assistant City Planner
Steve A. Kirchman, Builtling Inspector
September 12, 1988
Planning Case 88-11 Site Plan (Amoco)
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 9s7-1900
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
\qr
One handicapped parking stal-1 is required. Entire building and
approaches must be handicapped accessible.
North walls of car wash and self service car wash must be of 1
hour construction with protected openings.
Canopy is a B-1 occuPancy. Convenience store is B-2 occupancy.
The area enclosed by the canopy must be separated from the B-2
occupancy by t hour occupancy separation waI1. AII ogenings must
be t hour assemblies.
*l
690 COULTER DRIVE . P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
r
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Ii{EII{ORANDUM
TO: Jo Ann Olsen, Assistant City planne
FROM! Jim Chaffee, Public Safety Director
DATE: August 2, L988
SUBJ: Amoco Site Plan, Planning Case 88-11
Dale Gregory and I have reviewed the site plan forremodel-ed Amoco Station at Highways 5 and 101. Atcan find no changes to recommend regarding hydrantfire suppression or accessibil,ity by public safety
We do recomrnend; however, that consideration belighting and any other security measures neededbusiness of this kind-
the nen andthis time weplacement forunits.
given
for a
to secur i tyretail
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IRANSpcBrAloI
ENGINEEB,NG
ANCHTECTURE
l|0NNEAPcf,I}. MX S5.rS . pH. 612/370i1(fr i;,X: innfoitna
September f5, f988
,loann 0l sen
Assistant City PlannerCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter 0rive
Chanhassen, MN 55317
RE: Site Reviev
Aroco 0il Company Submtttal
Dear Joann,
As you requested, we have reviewed the sitStation for general compliance wttn Citi iticular, to establish consistency witn iec
Downtown Redevelopment project. -In this i
o Site Plan
Ian submittal for the Amoco 0lI
hanhassen standards and ln par-
improvements made during the
rd ve offer the fol lowing cofiments:
Trloi.lAs i C.^AAO[
0ALE x 3EC$J^I/..
CnArG A AMUM)!e
C€]\IUSJ SU:UFT
epfc
ent
ega
1 It is our understanding that two access points off TH 101/Great plains
Boulevard does not reflect current TH 5 ireslgn upgrades uetnq compieliobv MnDoT. These drivewavs must be coordinatlo wi[n unoor ani ineii----current p lans.
The.southerly access drlveway lras reconstructed under the downtoh,nproject t0 a yidth of ?7,-01-, not ?4t-0", as shoun.
The northerly acces s
-
drl velray r,ras reconstructed under the dolrntor/rn pro-
Ject to an overatl $.ldth of 60 feet, u,htch ts a monoltthtc coniiile''-pour with the car rash.
lf the_proposal is to construct.a new apron wldth of 24,-Or as shown,reconstruction of the car wash drl vevray rrlll be necessary and should'beshown on the pl ans.
Applicant should be aware of and recognlze ln thelr plans a futureisland which is proposed by MnD0T for-construction oh TH lO1.
It appears as though a passenger vehlcle ulll have dtfficulty ln makinoEurnlng movement into or oul of the most southerly stall at ihe manual-car wash.
L.
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M FXG slveNf{n\r JCH S. r.rcJ.tAU^fii FCTuAOO aL(iAlV
ST PETERSSURG OENVEN TIJCSON PIIOENX
*
MiNNEAPOUS
5
Joann 0l sen
September 15, lgEg
Page 2
o Gradin s PIan
1 Is the proposed drainaoe. from the two_foot wide-curb opening on thesouth side of the orooErtv ionsiitiili iiii r.rit6i rmprovements? rsdrrect drainase rnto lne-irtir-iiiJii.[i!z '-rf,J.. ... catch basrnsconstructed by the doyntoyn proJect'rf,i.tr-couii'Ue connected to forextension of an on-stre sto"f iErii ;;;;;:""'"
Il?-0.S p....nt grade from the automailc car wash exlt ts very flat.rnrs may cause some difftcutty wittr iiing-in iinter conaitfons.
ilg ylitiiles appear to correcilv corerate *,ith the utilitiescon s t ructed unde r the uowntown
-
iip iiiri,,iiriil,ijl.t.
2.
3.
o Landsc ap e PI an
1
3.
According to Arilcle VIII, Section Z, of the Chanhassen Zoningif i!'iiriiir,t:,:.*:,i,,il*il;,iI,:ii;$tff il.i!.Ijj.tir.l..,
::#.lL::.ore hedse ro screen,se. -iiiiiiili.-oi'.n.r,
rssues have been
]ffi,i#::::. tree sizes and variettes are consistent utth city
lldi!jlfr. screenins shourd be provlded at the ajlri rL:i;FIiltiriifi if,:[riiirii,ii,;[r. ii,l,i.;li!;,iii]:i, l"
4. Plantings in the is.land.along Great plains Bouleyard should bedinated urth and consi.steni iriil-ii-.'iTjiiirrss compreted by thto!,n project. Noru,ay !.tapte ;;-ii.;"0u[';;,liu oe consrsrent.
co0r-
e down-
oSt gnase/L i ht lnq PI an
2.
l.*:t:r::r3l'35 square reet or sisnase plus the exrsilns pvron slsn
Canopy Ilghts should not be visibte from off_site.
iff i1'.l,Ellll?,'ll:iiii,!.il'llllj.l:'lnfli{d;andards? There are no
3.
t.
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Joann 0l sen
September 15, 1988
Page 3
o General Conments
N -R I NGROS
yA.
Proj ec
GAE/ sK
VIS-GARDNER, INC.
Details have not been rncluded on the utiliiles, such as material types andconnection details. l,re assume that these wllt be proriaeJ ,ittr-i iipu.uteconstruction docment submi ttal
lle real'lze that sone of tie ltens which are proposed and cormented on herein areAm0c0 0il company standards. and therefore, iuriher conirueiiti.n;ri i;;approprlate (i.e., amount of slgnage).
If vre can be of further assistance, p'lease feel free to contact either JimLasher or me.
Slncerely,
ret
na9er
Hoisington Group lnc
Ms. Jo Ann OlsonAssistant City PlannerCity of Chanhassen
690 Coulter Dri ve
Chanhassen , MN 55317
Re: Amoco Site Plan (88-1f)
Jo Ann:
Slnce others will review the Anoco Site plan i.n lLsentirety, I wiLl linit ny renarks to the issue of access toSt.ate Trunk Highway 101 or Great Plains Boulevard.
7300 Metro Btvd.
Sulte 525
Edlna. MN 55435(6r2) 835-9960
As you are aware, MnDOT is in the process of designing amedian for Great. Plains Boulevard that will extend fronHighvay 5 nearly to the railroad tracks. No openings areproposed nhich neans that. access to the existing propertieson both sides of Great Plains Boulevard will be rlstiicted.I would have to say Ehat. while I understand r.rhat MnDOT isattempt.ing Eo achieve, some consideration has to be given toLhe Highway Business land uses lying along WesL 79th Streetand their need Eo be served by the existlng Highuay 5traffic f1on. I believe we should uork wiih M;DOT- Eo try toget one opening in the median at West 79th Street where allmaneuvers can be accomrnodated.
The Amoco proposal cal-1s for Lwo accesses including thenovenenE of the southerLy driver.ray even furLher to the southrrhere iE will interfere with the righE-Eurn lane fron Hwy 5.onto Great Plains Boul-evard. This proposal is a Eotallyunacceptable one from a traffic standpoint and suggesEs thatthere ought Eo be but one access t.o the proposed nirv Amocostation which access wouLd be locat.ed opposite the presentWest 79th StreeL intersection. WheEher or not the mediancut is allowed by MnD0T, we uould not. wanE. to have twodrives connecting the Anoco station to Great plains
BouLevard as shown on Ehe propose.d site plan.
It is ny understanding that so long as the Anoco statlonremains as is, it is entitled to retai-n its present tvodrivevay entrances to Great plains BouLevard. Given thatth:y...I:_e9ing Eo totally rebuild rhe subjecr site, tte-Cityand MnDoT has the right to control access to just one
ix',:CEl V[:D
sEP 121988
OITY OF CHANI-iASSEN ,
Land Use Consultants
Sep tember 9, 1988
#(/
driveway without having to provide compensaEion for the loss
of access. IE is impo rLan L Lo noLe EhaE the median, without
openings, does not consEitute severence of access worthy of
conpensation to either Anoco or Ehe owers along hlest 79th
SEreet. Since we have Ehe abilit.y to improve the siEuaEion
in conjuncEion with the proposed redevelopnenE of the Amoco
site, it will be extrenely importanE that we creaEe Ehe best
access j.nprovenenEs possible.
While not. ideal, we s!rongly reconmend thaE a single
driveway be approved to be aligned uith t.he West. 79Lh Street
intersection. lJe must vrork wiLh Amoco to encourage MnDoT to
provlde a median cut at Eha E location. Unt j.1 this matter is
resolved, and recognizing tha t changes to Lhe site plan will
have to be raade to reflecE a single driveway, I recommend
cont.inuaLion of the request.
Sincerely,
F re d lloisington
Consultant
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APPLICANT: Amcco oil conpany OWNER: Amoco oi1 compan
ADDRESS 5001- w. 80th Street, + 890 ADDRESS 5001 w. 80th Srreer, + 890
ELgomington, MN 55437 Blooninqton, MN 55437
TELEPHONE (Daytime )6L2
Zip Code
I31-7 s20
REQI,EST:
Zoning District Change
Zoning Appeal
Zoning Variance
Zoning Text Anendment
Iand Use PIan Anendment
Conditional Use Permit
xxxxx site Plan Review
PROJECT NA]4E
Planned Unit Development-
Sketch PIan
-
preliminary plan
Final Plan
Subdivision
_ Platting
Metes and Bounds
vacat i onStreet,/ Easement
Wetlands Permit
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION conmercial
RE0tESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION comnercial
PRESENT ZONING "BH" Hiqhwav & Bus.iness Services District
REQUESTED ZONING "BH" Hiqhway & Business service District
USES PROPOSED Motor Fuel -S!ago_!__q9.9-!-CS-0.!C.ESL9-ES._.9__ca ruC s!-as _
SIZE OF PROPERTY 1.16 Aercs
IOCATION N.E Corner Stare E!{y L5 & Stare HWy * lol
REASONS FOR THIS REOUES rhT ,rn :l I^L, f^r rr7in.' & rchti'ldihrl iI itv
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (Attach 1egaI if necessary)See Attached
I,AI{D DEVEIOPIIBIT APPLICATION
CITT OF CEANEASSEN
690 Coulter Drive
ChaBhassetr, ltN 55317(612) 937-1900
TELEPHoNE rctit ezr-tszo -zlij:t:
\
city of
"n.nnu"".(nLand Development ApplicationPage 2
(
This application must be conpleted in full and be typewritten orclearly printed and must U" i"corop"nl.i-oy aII information andplans required bv ""pr_icabie-;l$:g;;il.nce provisions. Beforefiling this applic"tion, you shoild "oni., with the city plannerto determine the speciti"'".ainI"-;; ;;;'appricabre t" v"oi-"ppricationl-" procedurar reguirements
FTLING TNSTRU CT IONS :
FTLI NG CERT IF I CATION:
Signed By
Signed By
The undersiqned reoresentative of the ap_oIj.(:ant hereby, certifiesthat he is iamiliai wittr ttre'f,rJiuirl"i"r.qurrements of allapplicable City Ordinances.
App 1 rcant
Fee er
Dat e
Dat e
Lrate Application Recei ved
Application Fee paid
City Receipt No.
. This Application wiII be consideredBoard of Adjusrmenrs "nd Ap,;;i;-;r-meecing.
by lhe planning Commi ss ion,/their
€
The undersigned hereby certifies that the applicant has been;::::fi:5: ro make trris apliicJii".-i.i.,.he property herein
**tzL
\.EHINHISSII\I
STAFF REPORT
P.C. DATE: Sept. 21, 19BB
C.C. DATE: Oct. 10, I98B
CASE NO: 88-13 Site plan
Prepared by: Olsen/v
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PROPOSAL:
APPLICANT:
25,000 Square Foot Of f ice,/Site Plan Review for aWarehouse Buildinq
Dolph j.n Construction
530 West 79th Street
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Brian wassKrech, OrBrien, Mueller & W6115 Cahi1l AvenueInver Grove Heights, MN 55
s
5
PRESENT ZONING:
ACREAGE:
DENSITY:
ADJACENT ZONING
AND LAND USE:
IOP, Industrial office Park
4.5 acres
R-12; vacant
1-.-: . t,' -. ,-- ,,
WATER AND SEWER:
PEYSICAL CHARAC. :
2OOO LAND USE PLAN:Industrial
Jo.i iie.i----.__-_
lief{i jL-* --, -i+, g/// / Pt_
tlte SubJrt, j :- :- , :ri:l..r.:lIOP; vacant
- ?/-L /Fg
IOP; Victory EDvelope
IOP; Mini-storage facility
Available to the site.
The site is fairly level on the northwestcorner and has steep topography located onthe southerly and easterly porlion ofsite. The site contains i large grove ofmature trees.
N-
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CITY OF
LOCATION: Southeast Corner of Hwy. 5 and park Drive
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Park Place - Dolphin Construction
September 21, 1988
Page 2
APPL IC AB LE REGU LATI ONS
Section 20-812 permits warehousethe IOP District.and office as a permitted use in
section 20-815 allows a maximum rot coverage of 70t, a front yardsetback of 30 feet, a rear yard setback of 10 feet and a sideyard setback of 10 feet. This section also allows a maximumheight of 50 feet for the prinicipal structure.
Section 20-1191 requires a 10 foot strip of land betweenright-of-way and vehicular use areas inlluding one treefeet and a hedge wall or berm of at 1east 2 feet.
abutt i ngper 40
Section 20-L192 requires interiorwith one tree per 40 feet.property lines to be landscaped
Section 20-L2Ll reguires interior
areas.landscaping for vehicular use
REFERRAL AGENCIES
Section 20-1125 requires for warehouse one parking space for each1,000 square feet of gross floor area up to 10,000 a-nd one addi-tional space for each additional 2,000 iquare feet, plus onespace for each company vehicle. For office it requiies 3 spacesper I,000 square feet.
Building Department
Public Safety Department
Asst. eity Engineer
MnDOT
DNR
ANALYS IS
No comments
Attachment #2
Attachment #3
The applicant is addressing future
HeTy 5 realignment
No comments
a 25,000 square footrented to different
The applicant isoffice warehouse
businesses.
proposing to constructbuilding which will be
The 25,000 square foot building is located in the south$restcorner of the site. The easterly portion of the site willas it exists within the existing trees and meadow.
rema 1n
The site is providing the required 30 foot front yard setbacks
from Highway 5 and Park Drive and is also providing the 10r.side
yartl setback required along the south property line. The site
Lontains parking along the r^resterly and northerly portion of the
buililing witfr toaaing docks Iocated along the south and east side
of the building. The building is surroundeil on all sides by
parking and vehicular area.
Park Place - Dolphin Construction
September 21, 1988
Page 3
PARKING AND LANDSCAPING
The applicant is proposing to have one-third of the building
used li office space and t\"ro-thirds of the building used for
warehouse. The applicant is providing 43 regular parking spaces
plus tr.io handicapped spaces for a total of 45 parking spaces
which exceeds the requirements of the zoning ordinance.
The applicant is providing the required berming between the vehi-
cular area and road right-of-ways and is afso providing adequate
amount of vegetation along the westerly and northerly portion of
the site. The vegetation on the west and north side is deciduous
but should include some evergreens to provide 50t winter opacity.
The site plan is providing Colorado Spruce along the southerly
1ot line to screen the Ioading dock area. The amount of Colorado
Spruce along the south lot line should be increased to provide
continuous screening of the loading and dock area and the
Iandscaping should continue to the edge of the parking area on
the south side of the site. The applicant is providing an I foot
high wood fence on the east side of the loading area which will
also act Lo screen the docking area from Park Drive.
The site plan has Ewo dumpsters in the docking area which are
screened on three sides. The ordinance requires that dumpsters
be screened on all sides. The applicant is also proposing to
screen all rooftop equipment.
ACCES S
The applicant is providing access at the most southvresterly
corner of the site to locate it the furthest distance from Hwy. 5
as possible. This has been approved by MnDOT. The applicant isalso showing the proposed Hwy. 5 right-of-way. The applicant
has been in contract vrith MnDOT prior to designing the site planto accommodate tshe proposed right-of-h,ay as best possible. MnDOT
has reviewed the plans and found them to be suitable.
GRAD I NG DRAINAGE AND UTILITIES
At tachme n t
address ing
#3 is a memo from thegrading, drainage and
Assistant
utiLities.
City Engineer
Park Place - Dolphin Construction
September 21, 1988
Page 4
}.{T SCELLANEOU S
1. The applicant provide additional aad continuousalong the south lot line to the easterly side ofarea.
The building will be rented to separate businesses and staffwill review the type of business being proposed for the buildingr.{hen they receive occupancy permits from the Building Department.This will guarantee that any business moving inLo the sile ispermitted within the IOP District.
RECOMMENDATION
the site plan meets the requirements of the ordinance andPlanning staff recornmends the planning Cornmission adopt thefollowing motion:
'rThe Planning Commission recommends approvaJ_ of Site plan
#88-13 as shown on the site plan stamped ,,Received August1988" and subject to the following conditions:
Reque s t
29,
screeningthe parking
2 The applicant provide evergreens along the north and westproperty lines to provide 508 opacity.
3. The applicant
areas.
provide complete
5
4. A11 rooftop equipment must be
The applicant sha11 obt.ain andthe Watershed District permi t .
screening of the dumpster
screened .
comply with all conditions of
6 The plans shall be revised to address erosion control andshall show the Cityrs standard details for Type II erosioncontrol. These plans sha1l be submitted to the City Engineerfor approval prior to finat review.
7
8
9
Calculations rvhich indicate Lhe increased volume ofsha1l be submitted to the City Engineer for approval
f inal- revi ew.
runoffprior to
The driveway shaIl be constructed withgutter per the standards of the City ofindustrial d r i veway.
a concrete cross
chanhassen for a
ATTACHI4ENTS
Excerpts from zoning ordinance
Irremo from public Safety ilated September 13, 19gg
I
2
The plans sha1l be revised to include an energy dissipator
manhole structure as shown on Attachment No. 1.
Park Place - Dolphin Construction
September 21, 1988
Page 5
Attachme n t s
Memo from Assistant City Engineer dated September I3, 1988Letter from applicant dated August 26, L988
Application
Site plans dated August 29, 1988
3
4
5
6
(
ZONING $ 20-814
ARTICLE XXII. "IOP" INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK DISTRICT
Sec. 2G811. Intent.
The intent of the "IOP" District is to provide an area identifred for large scale light
industrial and commercial plauned development-
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-1), 12-15-86)
S€c. 20€12. Permitted uses.
The following uses are permittcd in an "IOP" District:
(1) Offrces.
(2) Warehouses.
(3) Light manufacturing.
(4) Ttade shops.
(5) Health services.
(6) Printers.
(7) Indoor health and recreation clubs.
(8) Body shops.
(9) Utility services.
(10) Recortlingstudios.
(11) Off-premises parking lots.
(12) Conference/convention centers.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-2), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2&813. Permitted accessory uses.
The following are permitted accessory uses in an "IOP" District:
(1) Parking iots and ramps.
(2) Siens.
(3) Retail sales of products stored or manufactured on the site provided no more than
twenty (20) percent of the floor space is used for retail sales.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-16-3), 12-15-86)
Sec. 20€14. Conditional uses.
The following are conditional uses in an "IOP" District:
(1) Concrete mixing plants.
(2) Communication transmission towers.
t227
C
$ 20-814
(3) Public buildings.
(4) Motor freight terminals.
(5) Outdoor health and recreation clubs.
(6) Screened outdoor storage.
(7) Researchlaboratories.
(8) Contracting yards.
(9) Lumber yartls.
(10) Home improvement trades.
(11) Hotels and motels.
(12) Food process'ng.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, $ 16(5-164), 12-15-86)
State law reference-Conditional uses, M.S. $ 462.A595
(3)
(4)
(5)
C
Sec. 2G815. I-ot requirements and setbacks.
The following minimum requirements sha be observed in an "Iop', District subject toadditional requirements, exceptions and modifications set forth in this chapter:
(1)
(2)
The minimum lot area is one (l) acre.
The minimum lot frontage is one hundred frfty (1b0) feet, except that lots fronting ona cul-de-sac shall have a minimum frontage of sixty (60) feet.
The minimum lot depth is two hundred (200) feet.
The maximum lot coverage is seventy (20) percent.
off-street parking areas shall comply with aI yard requirements of this section,except that no rear yard parking setback shall be required for lots directly abuttingrailroad trackage; and, no side yard shall be required when ad.joining commercial
uses establishjoint off-street parking facilities, as provided in section 20_1122, exceptthat no parking areas shall be permitted in any required side street side yard- Theminimum rear yard shall be hfty (50) feet for lots directly abutting any residentialdistrict. Side street side yards shall be a minimum of tiventy_five (2b) feet in alldistricts. Other setbacks are as follows:
. a. For front yards, thirty (80) feet.b. For rear yards, ten G0) feet.c. For side yards, ten (10) feet.
(6) The maximum height is as follows:
a. For the principal structure, four (4) storieVtifty (S0) feet.b. For accessory structures, one 0) storv.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V, S 16(5-16-b), 12-rb-86)L-
t228
CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
(
ZONING
$ 20-1125
I
(12) Illortuaries_One G) space for every three (B) seats.
(13) Motel or hotel_One (1) parking space for each rental room or suite, plus one (l) spacefor every two (2) employees.
(ll1 ggr." buildings (administrative, business or professional!_Three (3) parkitrg spacesfor each one thousand (1,000) square fu"t oi noo. ,""..
(15)
(16)
Public service buildings, including municipal administration buildings, communitycenter, public librar5z, museum. art galleries, and post office_One [) parking spacefor each frve hunrir.ed (500) square feet of floor area i, it" p.io"ip.t structure, plusone (1) parking space for each four (4) rests within pobti" *llmUty o" meeting rooms.
Recreational facilities, including golf course, country club, swimming club, racquetclub, public swimming pool-TVenty (20) spaces, ,L" "r" tD space for each fivehundred (b00) square feet of floor a.", in tt
"
p.i.r"ip'ut
"t.i,r"i*u o" t*o fz) spaces per
o
(17) Research, experimental or testing stations_One [) parking space for each five hun-dred (500) square feet of gross floor area within the iuilding, whichever is greater.(18) Restaurant, cafe, nightclub, tavern or bar:
a. Fast food-One (1) space per sixty (60) square feet of gross floor area.b. Bestaurant:
1. Without full liquor license_One (1) space per sixty (60) square feet of grossfloor area or one (1) space per two and one-half (2%) ""u* *iri"t "ri. i"greater,
2. With full liquor license_One 0) space per hfty (50) square feet of gross floorarea or one (l) space per two (Z) seats whichever is greater.
(19) Retail stores and service establishments_One (1) space for each two hundred (200)square feet of gross floor area.
(20) School, elementar5r (public, private or parochiall_One (1) parking space for eachclassroom or office room, plus one (1) space for "a"h one hundred frfty 050) squarefeet of eating area incruding aisres, in any auaito.ium or gymnasium or cafeteriaintended to be used as an auditorium.
(21) School,junior and senior high schools and colleges (public, private or parochial_Four(4) parking spaces for each classroom o" ofii""-.oo- plus one (1) space for each onehundred frfty (150) square feet of seating area including aisres, in any auditorium orgymnasium or cafeteria intended to be used as an auditorium-
(22) shopping center-on-site automob,e parking shalr be provided in a ratio of not lessthan one (1) parking space.for each two hundred (200) iuare feet of gross floor area;separate on-site space shall be provided for loading and unloading.
(23) Storage, wholesale, or warehouse establishments_One (!) space for each one thou-sand (1,000) square feet of gross floor area up to ten thousand (10,000) square feet andone (1) additional space for each additional two thousand (2,000) square feet plus one
t249
o
$ 20-1179 CHANHASSEN CITY CODE
(5) The removal of diseased and damaged trees is permissible.
(d) Tree removal not permitted under subdivision, planned unit development or site plan
review shall not be allowed without the approval of a tree removal plan by the city council-
Ttee removal plans shall include the content requirements as dictated in section 20-117? and
identify reasons for tree removal. The plan shall be submitted three (3) weeks in advance of
the city council at which it is to be considered.
(e) This section does not apply to single-family and two-family lots of record.
(Ord. No. 80, Art. Vm, S 7, 12-15€6)
Secs. 2Gll80-2G1190. Reserved.
DWISION 2. PERIMETER LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 20-1192. Required landscaping adjacent to interior property lines.
(a) where parking areas abut property zoned or, in fact, used primarily for residential or
.institutional purposes, that portion of such area not entirely screened visualy by an interven-
ing structure or existing conforming buffer from an abutting property, there shall be provided
a landscaped buffer which should be maintained and replaced as needed. such randscaped
buffer shall consist of plant material, wall, or other durable barrier at least six (6) feet in
height measured from the median elevation ofthe parking area closest to the common lot line,
and be located between the common rot line and the off-street par.king areas or other vehicular
use area exposed to the abutting property. Fences shall be constructed according to the
standards in section 20-1018.
o
e
o
Sec. 2Gll91. Generally.
(a) Where parking areas are not entirely screened visually by an intervening building or
structure from any abutting right-of-way, there shall be provided landscaping between such
area and such right-of-way as follows:
(1) A strip of land at least ten (10) feet in depth located between the abutting right-of-
way and the vehicular use area which shail be landscaped to include an average of
one (1) tree for each forty (40) linear feet or fraction thereof. such trees shail be
located between the abutting right-of-way and the vehicular use area.
(2) In addition, a hedge, wall, berm, or other opaque durable landscape ba*ier of at least
two (2) feet in height shall be placed along the entire iength ofthe vehicular use area.
u such opaque durable barrier is of nonliving materiar, a shrub or vine shan be
planted along the street side of said barrier and be planted in such a manner to break
up the expanse of the wall. A two-foot berm may be used; however, additional
lantlscaping at least one (r) foot in height at time of planting shall be installed. The
remainder of the required landscape areas shall be landscaped with grass, ground
cover, or other landscape treatment.
(b) This division applies to perimeter landscaping.
(Ord. No. 80, Art, Vm, $ 2(8-2-1), 12-15-86)
7254
ZONING I 20-1212
I
T
I
I
t-
I
(b) In addition' an average of one (1) tree shall be pro'ided for each forty (40) rinear feet ofsuch parking area or fractional part thereof. Such trees shalt be l0cated between the commonlot line and the off-street parking area or other vehia,rt., *. *"r.
(c) where such area abuts property zoned and, in fact, used for office, commerciar, orindustrial purposes' that portion of area not "oti""ty """u"oua visually by an intervening
;|iljrT[r::,*rl-";onforminc burrer, shal
"oo,pry ,nitr, the tree provisio* ,"1, ;;;"_
(Ord. No. 80, Arr. Vm, $ 2(8-2-2),12-15-86)
Sec. 2GII9B. Combining with easeEerts.
The required randscape bufferyard may be combined with a utility or other easement aslong as all of the randscape requirements can be ILIIy met, otherwise, the randscape bufieryardshall be provided in addition to, and separate from, ,.rry oih", "*"-ent- cars or other objectsshall not overhang or otherwise intrude upon the requi.ed landscape bulreryard more thatrtwo and one-half (2%) fsstr and .urrs will be required-
(Ord. No. 80, Art. V[I, S 2(8-2-g), 12-15-86)
Sec. 2Gll94. r.i-isting landscape material.
Existing landscape material sha, be shown on the required plan and any materiar insatisfactory condition may be used to satisfy these requirements in whole or in part-(Ord. No. 80, Art. VItr, S 2(8-24),12-lb-86)
Secs. 2G,1195-2G1210. Reserved.
DWISION 3. IIVTERIOR LANDSCAPING FOR VEHICULAR USE AREAS
Sec. 2G,l2ll, Generally.
(a) Any open vehicular use area (excluding loading, unloading, and storage areas in theIoP and BG districts) containing more than six thousrod 1o,o00y "q,r""" feet of La, or twenty(20) or more vehicurar parking spaces, shall provide interior randscaping in accor6ance withthis division in addition to "perimeter" landscaping. Interior randscaping may be peninsuraror island typres.
(b) This division applies to interior landscaping ofsuch areas.(Ord. No. 80, Art. VlI, S 3, 12-18-86)
Sec. 2Gl2l2. Landscape area.
(a) For each one hundred (100) square feet, or fraction thereof, of vehicular use area, five(5) square feet of landscaped area shall be provided.
- (b) The minimum landscape area permitted shall be sixty-four (64) squar. feet, with afour-foot minimum dimension to an trees from edge of pavemeut where vehicles overhang.
t255
o
o
CITY OF
EHf,NHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEIT,IORANDUM
TO: JoAnn O1sen, Assistant City Planner
FROM: Scott Harr, Assistant PubIic Safety Director
DATE: September 13, 1988
SUBJ: Dolphin Construction Plan
Fire Marshal Phil Mathiowetz has no additional comments on this
plan.
CITY OF
EHINHISSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
MEMOR.fu\DUT"I
TO:
FROM:
DATE :
SUBJ:
Planning Commi s s ion
Larry Brown, Staff Eng ineer
water service i to the site by a
A water servi ce
#
"---.-
September 14, 1988
Site Plan Review for Lot t, Block 3
Chanhassen Lakes Business park
Planning File No. 88-13, Dolphin Construction
This site is located on the southeast corner of llighway 5 andPark Drive. The site is composed of a flatr open fiel-d with acreek which traverses the northeast corner of the lot.
Sanitary Sewer
Municipal sanitary sewer service is available to the siteexisting 10-inch diameter sanitary sewer along park Drive.Sanitary sewer services have been extended to the property
Water Service
by the
l-ine.
Mun icipal
di amet er
ext end ed
watermain alongto the property
s avai Iable
Park Drive.
boundary.
l0-inch
has been
Access
The plan proposes a 30-foot wide driveway at the southwest cornerof the subject parcel. The proposed driveway maintains the maxi-
mum separation for this parcel from State Highway 5. We findthat this plan is acceptable.
Grading and Draina ge
The plan proposes a minimal amount of grading to the site. Tree
removal has been reduced to a minimum.
The plans propose that a storm sewer system be constructed alongthe southerly side of the parcel which wiII drain to the existing
sed.iment pond located on the east side of the parcel. The sLorm
sewer plan calls from PVC storm sewer pipe. The City's standard
Planning Commi ss ion
September 14, I988
Page 2
is RCP for the urban areas.
porate reinforced RCP in thewill need to obtain a permit
The plan should be revised to incor-
storm sewer design, The applicant
from the watershed District for the
construction of the storm sewer
existing sedimentation pond.
and within the proxinity of the
The predeveloped runoff rate has been maintained by the construc-tion of the existing sedimentation pond as part of the Chanhassen
Lakes Business Park One project. Further on-site ponding willnot be necessary.
Erosion Control
The plans do not address
control plan showing the
erosion control . A revisedCityrs standard for Type II eros ion
eros ion
approva I
I
2
control shalI be submi ttedprior to final review.
to the City Engineer for
Recommended Condit ions
The applicant shall obtain and comply with all conditions ofthe Watershed District permit.
The plans shall be revised to address erosion conlrol and
sha11 show the Cityrs standard details for Type II erosioncontrol-. These plans shall be submitted to the City Engineerfor approval prior to final review.
3 The plans shall be revised to include an energy dissipalor
manhole struclure as shown on AtLachment r\o. 1.
4. Calcul-ati,ons which indicate the increased volume of
sha11 be submitted to the City Engineer for approvalfinal review.
r unof fprior to
5 The driveway shaIl be constructed with a concrete crossgutter per the standards of the City of Chanhassen for ainduslrial driveway.
J
,)
ATTACHMENT# 1
E
\..1
i '.
q.i.,..:t.:j::i:1,. .
Do"*rr*
r-
C ONSTRUCTION,I*.
August 26, 1988
Mrs. Jo Ann 0l sen
Assistant Pl anner
City of Chanhassen
P.0. Box 147
Chanhassen, MN 55317
Dear Jo Ann:
Accompanying this letter are the items necessary to submit our appiication for
Land Development in Chanhassen Lakes Business Park. As you know, we are planning
to construct a 25,000 square foot offi ce/wa reho use building at the southeast
corner of the park entrance.
The building is to be known as "Park Place", will house several existing
Chanhassen firms and should attract several new business entities to the city.
The architectura.l firm of Krech, 0'Brien, Mueller and Wass, Inc. shall represent
the owner and provide any support you may need in the rev'i ew and approval
process.
Should you have questions we may answer, please ca1 I either Joe Harding or me
at 934-0472. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
-i
Si 4cere ly,^
i, j- , n.l /' t.l.k;x*/o;/.,)i/L/
David W. Schul z
Presi dent
./
./-
Dol phin Construct ion, Inc.
(612) 931-O4725 30 West 79th Srreet P. O. Box 327 Chanhassen, Minnesota 553 I 7
('
LAND DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
690 COULTER DRIVE
CHANHASSEN r4N 55317
937- 1900
Dol phi n Constructj on , Inc. 0I^,NER David t^l. Schulz
530 VJ. 79th Street ADDRESS 530 }t. 79th Street
Chanhassen, MN 55317 Chanhassen, Mll 55317
TELEPHONE (Daytime)
_934-0472
REQUEST:
APPL I CANT
ADDRESS
ZONING DISTRICT CHANGE
ZONING APPEAL
ZONING VARIANCE
ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT
LAND USE PLAN AMENDMENT
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
SITE PLAN REVIEI.I
PR0JECT NAME Park Place 0f f i celtJa reho use
SKETCH PLAN
PRELIMINARY PLAN
FiNAL PLAN
SUBDIV]SION
PLATT I NG
STREET/ EASEI4EIIT VACATION
I,IETLANDS PERMIT
x
PRESENT LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATlON
REQUESTED LAND USE PLAN DESIGNATION
PRESENT Z0NING PUD for 0ffice and industrial
REQUESTED ZONING 0ffice l.Jarehouse
USES PROP0SED 25,000 square feet Offi celWa rehouse
5.0042 acres or 277,983 square feetSIZE OF PROPERTY
LOCATION Southeast corner of State Highway 5 and Park Drive
REASONS FOR THIS REQUEST City review leading toward permjt
LEGAL DESCRIPTION (ATTACH LEGAL IF NECESSARY)
Business Park - lst Addition Chan has sen ).
Lot I Block 3 Chanhassen
(
-
PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
't'.
This application musr be completed in fuLl and be typewrit.ten orcrearry prinLed and musc be iccompani.a-oy ar.r information andPl?l:':SYired bv uppli""ui"-ai;;';;;;;"nce provisions. Berore'trrrng this apDlication, you should confer "itt, it.-diiy iiinn.,to deEermine the sDpciri.'"iain"n.J iii'p.o.edural requiremenrsapplicable to your applicat ion
INS TR,UCT rONS:
Signed By
agreement to permit cons tprior to acquisi
Signed B
The undersiined reoresentative of the applicant herebythat he is familiai aittr itre
- prJ"uj"i"it ,.qui remenrs ofapplicable City Ordinances.
z/.
:erti fiesall
Da.LeAppIicanE
n or deve 1o
The. undersigned herebyauthorized to make thi sdescri beci,, provided rhat s
certifies that the lcant has beenapplhe.pr
l not
the s
e app 1
Date
applicaLion for t operty herei nuch authorization sha 1 be construed as anpment of ubj ect prope rt
J ect pro rt vbvth 1Cant.
Fe wne r
Date App Iication
Application Eee
City Receipt No.
Rece i ved
Paid
be
and by thetheir
cons i dered
Appeals at
This Application wiIIBoard of Ad j us tmcn esneeLing.
PJ.ann ing Coruni ssion,/
C
City of ChanhassenLand DeveLopmenE Applica E ionPage 2
a
FTITNG CERTIFTCATTON:
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETI NG
SEPTEMBER 7, 1988
Vj.ce Chaj rman Emmjngs callecl the meetj.ng to order at 7:35 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Tim Erhart, Steven Emmings, Annette Ellson, BrianBatzri, David Headla and Ladd conrad arrived after the first item.
MEMBERS ABSENT: James Wi Idermuth
STAFF PRESENT: Barbara Dacy, City pfanner and Larry Brown, Asst. City
Eng i neer
CONDITIONAL USE PERI\,TIT TO LOCATE A CHURCH IN THE
PROPERTY ZONED RR, RURAT RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT ANDOF HWY. 4I APPROXIMATELY ONE MILE NORTH OF HFIY. 5
CHURCH .
RURAL DISTRICT ON
LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE
, WESTS IDE tsAPTIST
Barbara Dacy presented the Staff Report.
Emmings: Do you have anything additional? you understand that what we, reorig j.na1 plan wi thoutlook j.ng at in front of us right now is the oldmoving the church over?
Westsjde tsapt j.st Representat. j.ve: No changes.
Elnmings: That's fine wjth you?
Westside Baptj.st Representatjve: yes.
Emmings: Are there any members of the pubJ-icthi.s item?
Batzl- j. moved, Erhart seconded to close the publjc hearing. AII voted jn
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Headla: Do they intend to g ive you some borjngs on the septic sjtes?
Dacy: Yes. They have followed up and done additional borj.ngs...
Headla: That's all I have.
here that \,eant to comment on
SEE US
a
I canrt
them
Batzlj: My comment from Iast time stjll appl j.es. I would Iike to
being able to work wj.th the Metropolitan Council on the MUSA ljneapplication for a sj.te like this where jtrs obvjous that jtts nearwetland. The interceptor is going to run right through there andbeljeve the ljttle consideratjon that went into being able to hookup. But having said that, I donrt have any questions.
Ellson: No comments from me. It looks fine.
Planning Commission
September 7, L988 -
l'1e e t j ng
Page 2
Erhart: I was goj.ng to say, you probably have the j.mpress j on that theCity of Chanhassen doesn't want you Eo hook up to thj.s interceptor. Ithink l can speak for most of the Commissj-on mernbers here and not here,
$rould be to our...if you and other property owners along that line couldhook up to it and I find it amazi.ng that the Metropolj.tan Council can,t
somehow fjnd it jn their way to allow you to do that and I think perhaps
i'rhat you see in here a little bit is sjmply that wetve been through thisin the past and it's always kind of that frustration so somehow acceptthat as an apology. If you can f j.nd a vray to hook up, we're aII behindyou. Again, ...and j.trs been real frustratj ng. Other than that, that,sthe only cofiL'nents I have.
i.r
Emmings: I don't have anything to add. I agree wjth Tjm's comments. Itdoes seern like a reasonable thing to do that the Met Council would allowyou to hook up to that interceptor that is going right through yourproperty but Irm not surprised. Itrs amazing but also kind of typical.
Headla: Ir11 make a motion that the plannj ng Commi.ssi.on recommendapproval of Conditional Use permit #88-9 for a church to be Iocatedoutside the MUSA line with the following conditjons- The 12 that thestaff Iisted and I,d like to add a l3th. That the staff, I think Brianhad an excelrent point. r'd like to see the staff make an earnest attemptto negotiate, to see if we could get them hooked up to the MUSA l-ine.
Emmings: That wouldnrt be a condi ti.on on this approval because we canttreally put that as a condition.
HeadIa: [,^Ie can ask the staf f to
ask the staff to
do Ehat.
do that.Emmings:
Batzli:
We can
Second.
Is there a seco nd ?
Headla moved, Batzli seconded that the planning Commj.ssionapproval of Conditional Use permit *gg-9 for a church to beoutside the MUSA Iine with the following condi.tjons:
The applicant must receive preliminary plat approvalsite by September of 1989, unless the property ownersthe parcel remain as one undivjded lot.
rec omme nd
located
for the subj ect
agree to have
t
2
3
4
The tvro approved septjc sites
receJ.ving a buildjng permit.must be staked and preserved prjor to
Provide a landscapi ng plan whj ch provides screenjngvehicular access areas and abutting right-of-way aiSectj.on 2g-LI9g of the Zonj.ng Ord j.nance.
between
requ i red
the
in
The applicant shall
instal lation of the
recei ve an access
church drl veway.
permit from MnDot prior to
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 3
A fire lane must be installed for the ent j.re length on either the eastor r^rest side of the building. The fire lane, at least 20 feet inwidth, must comply with the City of Chanhassen's requirement for anall weather surface meeting urban standards. Whichever side is
chosen, a clear access must be maj.ntained by desj.gnatj.on of a "FireLane" .
6. The maj.n driveway shall have ,,No parking Eire Lane,r sj.gns jnstalled.
1.
Lg.
It.
L2.
The appl icant shaII
calculati ons whi.chrate and al-l storm
process.
provide a revised grading plan with storm sewer
ver j.fy the preservatj.on of the predeveloped runoff
sewer capacities as part of the final review
The developer shall obtain and comply with aII conditj ons of the
Watershed District permit.
9 llood fiber blankets or equivalent
disturbed slopes greater than 3:l
shall be used to stabi 1i.ze all
The developer shall be responsible for daily on and off site clean-up
caused by the construction of this site.
A11 erosion controls shall be in place prior to the commencement of
any grading, and once in place, shall remain in place throughout theduration of construction. The developer shall be responsible forperiodic checks of the erosion controls and shall make aII repairspromptly. AI1 erosion controls shall remain intact until an
established vegetative cover has been produced.
A revised pJ-an which shows bj.tuminous parking and curbi.ng shall be
submitted as part of the f i.na1 review process.
All- voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE I0.75 ACRES INTO 27
PROPERTY ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY AND
DRIVE, APPROXIMATELY L/4 MILE ViEST OF MINNEWASHTA
DAVE JOHNSON.
S INGLE FAMILY LOTS ON
LOCATED A'I 6279 GLENDALE
PARKWAY, ' COUNTRY OAKS ,
Public Present:
Don Brandt
Tom Poppi tz
J. Hal lgrenElaine Dunn
Ralph & Carol
Vern I shamDick Kinsman
Address
Leslee Curve
GlendaIe Dr ive
Mi nnewashta
LesLee Curve
Lone Cedar Ci rcle
Leslee Curve
Crestview Drive
Kant
380r
4sg0
6864
3829
382q
4s36
392q
Name
Planning Commiss j.on
September 7, l98g -
Meetj ng
Page 4
PauI Ni t zke
Mike RyanPeter & Lola warhol
Craig Cour tneyRick & Mae Vanderbruggen
Dacy: The 90
and the I ots
on curves asbe an option
ba sed on $rha t
somehow tha t
GlendaIe Drive
Maple Ci rcleLeslee Curve
Cres tv i er./ Drive
Glendale Drive
foot width at the setback Iine js only for cul_de_sac lotson that curve, the City in the past has not considered lotscul-de-sac 1ots. I^then you had earlier brought up thaE it mayto create a bubble on the street. We reviewed the planswas submitted and that would be the recommendation thatthat issue would be resolved.
4gIO
3859
3831
39gl
46tq
Barbara Dacy and Larry Brown presented the staff report.
Ladd conrad arrived durjng thjs jtem.
Vice Chairman Bnmings called the public hearing to order.
Dave Johnson: rrm Dave Johnson with shorewood oaks Development. I'Iyunderstanding, to bring up the first thing that r^ras brought up was Lhesetback. !1y understanding is that we neea a 9a foot set6ack it thesetback line, not at the street line. perhaps r was misinformed earlierbut thatrs my understanding of it. rf that's the case, there are only twolots that that doesnrt $rork on and they are very large lots in the coiner.
Errnings: Letrs stop right here. rs his understanding correct orincorrect?
Dave Johnson: r'|ve had some discussions with your engi.neer here about Ehebubble effect. we could easily cure that probrem by putting a bubbre in.He has reservati.ons about, if reservati ons is the rig-ht word, aboutputting a bubble on a curve. r didn,t see that as slgnificant a probremmyser.f . one of the things that vri.th those rots in the corner, the onesthat have the narrower setback up front, therers no togic.i-.uu"o., why thehouse would be set rhl! f3r forwirC anyway. I,m a bu j.ider also. I may ormay not be buirding alL the houses in thii subdivision but we h,ourdn.thave a problem wi.th stipurating a setback farther back so the r0g footwould work and not put the bubbre in if that would resorrr"-th. i""r"because the 10t i.s plenty big enough. rt wilr have a substanti.al rearyard. Those are tvro of Ehe biggesE rots in there. Therers got to be somevray to resol-ve that issue. whether it,s with a bubble, whi.ch doesn,tappear. to be acceptable or getting variance cn where the lot lines wouldg-o-.. with respect to the sewer issue and the lift stati.on, we did a tittrefurther rooking into that but we haven,t had rime to gei uacr< ,iitr-liiiy--on it but it would appear to us as though e/hen this mini-subdivision ofthose severar smaller parcers there were carculated, the gravity frow--system will work i.f everybody develops their property at 5nce. ourproblem is that the property to the south of ,r. i.s ,trere the gravity ser^,er
I:r]9_Il::_!h::ugh. js nor beins developed so unrjr jt does, i[ appeirs toDe necessary to put in a lift station to temporari ry push it out towardsthe east. Then when the property jmmediater,y to the iouth is deveroped,then that lift station courd be removed and ihe property hrourd work
PIann j.ng Comm j ss j.on
September 7, 1988 -
Mee E j. ng
Page 5
gravity along with everything e1se. Now that's, as Larry sajd, isissue that wiII be addressed later but it,s my understanding thatthe reason for a Iift station and it would be a temporary problem.
than that, I donrt know what to tell you. I have my engineer Rayis here i.f you've got any questions that are of a technical naturecanrt answer .
an
that's
Other
Brandt
that I
Emmings: Okay. I'lI teII you what we'll do, if there are people thathave concerns here, werll let them raise their concerns and if you wantanother opportunity to respond to their commentsr wetII gj.ve you that
opportuni ty.
Craig Courtney: I live at 3901 Crestvie$, in pleasant Acres. Itm also thePresident of the Pleasant Acres Homeo$rners Associ.ation. There are 66
members in the Pleasant Acres Homeor.rners Association and they are allquite against this development. The main reason that most of them areagai.nst ir is, in 1968 Pleasant Acres Homeowners Association was given a
deeded lake access lot. Now this land thatrs bej.ng developed as Outlot A
and Government Lot 5 js ljsted as part of Ehjs property that r,rould get
deeded lake home access but it was dee<ied to Pleasant Acres HomeoernersAssociation. The deed states that. This is not going to be pleasant
Acres. This is going to be Country Oaks. Even though they're deeded thatproperty, therers goi.ng to be some sort of confljct, we feel, jn the factthat Pleasant Acres owns the property. t{e maintain it through all of ourtaxes. lie pay the taxes on it. What js gojng to be done to the residentsthat buy this property in Country Oaks? Hereto the policy that we havewith the Lake Association Beachlot. IL states jn our corporati on papers,
the peopl-e who use this wj.ll be members of Pleasant Acres Homeowners
Associat.ion. We feel tha t
these 27 additional lots along with the 66 will put the number, out of lggpeople that could have and wil-l use that deeded lake access lot. We feelit's very overcrowding that small I acre or L/2 acLe lo|- .
Emmings: Is there anyth i ngyou're organi zed that forces
organization?
ln your
you to
By- 1a ws
perm J t
or l.n
these
Ehe papers under which
people jn your
Craig Courtney: The only thing that we see that would force hjm is, this
Quit Claim deed was given to Pleasant Acres Addition I and Addition 2 and
on unplotted lands now owned by me in Sections 6, Townshj.p 116, Range 23
and Government Lot 5, Township L16, Range 23 so jn essence, j.f it is legal
that they are getting deeded lake access to this property, that would be
the only thing Ehat. would say that they can have it because the Quit Claim
Deed is in Pleasant Acres Homeowners Association's name. our Articles of
Incorporation sEate that members of thj.s corporation shall- be ljmited to
residents of the area known as Pleasant Acres, Chanhassen ViIlage, Carver
County, Minnesota.
Emmi.ngs: This particular j.ssue sounds Like jt might be a legal issue
between you and the developer of this property and later on the homeowners
of that property. It probably isnrt something that we can get i nvolved
in.
Planning Comm j.ssion
September 7, 1988 -
seems to me that what you're talking about there is privateas opposed to anything that the City could address in this
craig courtney: Then I'1r drop that point. r also have a concern. ThePleasant Acres is stated as all rarge, people consider them r/2 acre lotsand country oaks is comi.ng in and half of the 10ts are just barery theminimum size- we donrt feel that this is going to do pleasant Acies anygood at all. There was mention of the size of the homes and the pricerange of the homes and this land is, in my own view of the land, is notrand that you would develop homes of this size and price range of homes isgoing to be developed. My personar objection is to the size of the rotsand I guess that was jt. Then if lre may ask for some direct j.on forthe Homeohrners Association and may be something we canrt be herped. rtwill be ironed out bet$/een the developer anci pleasant Acres.
Emr j.ngs: Itlegal rights
appl ication.
Craig Courtney: Let me ask you how you interpretted your Section 5 ofyour zoning Regulations as far as the use of non-conf6rming use property?rt states that non-conforming use property, which this tot is, shall noibe expanded or enlarged. yourre not expanding or enrarging the propertybut you're expanding the use tremendously.
Emmings: Yourre talking about the beachlot nor,r?
Craig Courtney: Right.
Enmings: You can,t expand a non-conforming use and f guess I had aquestion about that too. rn the staff Report it seemed pri.marily toaddress whetner or not they erourd be allowed to have more boats down therebut it would seem to me that having more people using it, 27 famili.es orwhatever, would expand the use of the property. why does it affect thedocking of boats and not the use of the pioperty by more people?
Dacy: Just to make cr.ear that the pleasant Acres beachrot, whateverexisted when vre adopted the Beachrot ordinance in Lgg2, the number ofboats, the number of docks and the number of canoe racis and so on, arr ofthat existing use is grandfathered in. when we tarked to the cityAttorney about that he said, you canrt authori.ze another docx or anotherboat or anything thaL the city had on record occuring .; ih; preasantAcres Beachrot- The city really coulcl not tell the ir".sunt ecr"sHomeowners Association that property ovrner A courd not use trte beachrotversus property owner B. His feeli.ng was thaE because part of theproperty was regally described as part of pleasant ecrei subdivision, thatthatrs going to have to be a mattei between the develop".-"na the existingHomeowners Association to $rork out who uses it or ir ti:ey g;t t" use it orwhatever. It's part of that private Restrictions ana Coireiants which thecity does not have a party to. what $re do have a party to is that $re wirtnot alLow more boats or docks located on that neaci.rlot-.
craig courtney: - If you adopted thaE as non-conformance use, the number ofDoaEs, docks and you do not adopt the number of parcels of land that wereto use-that property at that time? At that time there was pleasant Acresl and 2- There was outlot A and there was Government Lot B. Thatrs two
Meeting
Page 6
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meet i ng
Page 7
than Pleasant Acres l and 2 and now yourre going to have 27
Dacy: Thatrs where m saying that the city Attorney is saying thaL theprivate property owners and the pleasant Acres homeowners hive to workthat out. The zoning ordinance is only pertaining to the conditional usefor a beachlot. what happens there? The number of docks, The number ofboats. The city's regulations do not apply to who gets to use that, whatrots get to use that. That is contained i.n your do6ument and is u prirrai"document between you and r"rhoever owns the property as part of the pleasantAcres subdivision- Again, part of this propeity is delcribed as a part ofthe Pleasant Acres- part of it is not so just ?rom me looking at ii,therers no question whether 27 lots erould have the ability to use thatbecause onry half of the subject property is legalry desciibed as part ofPleasant Acres.
extra other
more.
Emmings: It wouldAttorney go tbroughyour options are.
Craig Courtney: Thank you-
Erhart: Didn I t we recentlythat can use any particular
like your Homeowners Association should have anpapers and this situation and 1et you know what
pass an ordinance
beachlot?
Iimiting the number of lots
from the
beachlots and
sound
yo ur
Dacy: The ordinance reads that there,s a l,0AA foot radiusbeachlot but again, that ordinance applies to newly createdthis is a grandfathered beachlot.
Erhart: But that does l-imit the numberthat number? Do you remember?
of users to a beachlot. What is
Dacy :
8A% of
subdivi.sions I think we had 4t and that rrras based on
Erhart:
not.
But this is resident j.al. It woutd seem to me that it may or may
For the rural
the lots. . .
Brown: Normally when a contractor goes in, theyrll bjd the
That means grading for tbe entj.re subdivision and the earthjn constructing street and utilities. They,ll bid that as
ent j re job.
work i nvo l ved
one lump sum
Dick Kinsman: I live at 392A Crestview Drive and knowi ng that
developments of this type sometimes run into problems, have trouble andarenrt always completed as planned, I'm wondering nhat the bondingsituation is or what type of guarantee you impose on the developer to knohrfor the Cj.tyrs sake as well as ours that the thing is goi.ng to look and wesee it as planned?
Emmi.ngs: I think the thing the City is worried about are the public
improvements that the developer has to put in as part of that development.
We get some financial security on those items but that's all. Is that
r j.ght?
PIann j.ng Commission
September 7, L988 -
MeetJ.ng
Page I
package. The City in turn wiII requi.re the developer to post a letter of
credit for the amount of LLO% of tbe amount that it costs for the entireproject- That extra l0A is to give the City some leeway as far as
administrative costs to get a contractor in there to complete the work ifthe contractor fails to do so.
Batzli: Those are just for the public improvements?
Emmings: Does that answer your question sir?
Dick Kinsman: Yes.
Jo Ann Hallgren: I live at 5850 Minnewashta Parkway which is the property
south of Country Oaks. I guess there isn't a representative from the Park
and Recreation here this evening? There $ras mention made about a piece of
Country Oaks being designated for parkland and then in the future
development of the property to the south, that parkland would be extended.I don't know if I want you to do that. It seems to me Mr. Johnson has achoice of where he !,rants his piece of parkland to be but jf it,s supposedto connect up r.rith development to the south, which is me, and I have a Iotof prime buildable property, I guess I wouldn't care to have thatdesignated as parkland if it doesn't have to be. I understood there were
some questions about the parkland and I don't know how it works. If you
have to donate land or pay fees or $rhat, I have no idea on that. Thattswhy I wanted a rep from the Park.
Emmings: We don't know either.
Brown: UsuaL1y it's
entire package so it
the ponding site and
for the entire subdivision because
would include grading for the lots,
landscaping.
it I s bid as one
construction of
that the functions of the
Your comments probably
become a part of ourordi.narily get involved
Jo Ann Hallgren: Has Mr. Johnson picked an area for the park?
Emmings: Just a minute. I think the thing i.s
Park and Rec Commission and ours don't overlap.
shouLd have been addressed to them but they,11Minutes and go onto the City Council. We don,twith the things in their domain.
Jo Ann Harlgren: But no one $ras notified. r was not notified that it wasgoing to be designated parkland.
Headra: can r say something steve? This is a pubri.c hearing and this isthe first chance anybody has had to say anything on it. Isnit thatappropriate?
Emmings: Doesnrt park
this comes in front of
and Rec have a
t hem?
publjc hearing when an item like
I SSUe.Dacy: Technically no but let me expla in a Iittle more about thj.sThe Park and Rec Commission identified this general area as beingdeficient and they identifjed a need for parkland. typically the
park
Park and
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 9
Rec commission notifies the appricant about this. r know that theapplicant had objected to the reservation of the one acre park area. ThePark and Rec commission's recommendation goes onto councir and theappli.cant has the ability to appeal that decision to the councir. ThecounciL can decide whether or not to accept the park and Rec commission'srecommendation. r guess in one instance it's good to hear these commentsnow.
ut
the
Emmings: I rrrant you to
has and wants to becauselooks at your comments.
your comments
Ci ty Counc i 1
on record and
Iooks at what
p anybody
happens
el se
here
who
and
Jo Ann Hallgren: As I understand r I don't go to many of these meetingsbut Park and Rec land, r donrt know what they have ii mind. now big ipark? usually 5 acres is supposed to be a plrk. r certainly dontt want 5acres taken, or 4 acres taken off my 11 acre pi ece and where else are theygoing to go? stratford Ridge is to the east and therers 40g feet to getto the south of me- I don,t understand where they think they're goin{ to9o with their 5 acres. rt would be that r would have no choice in trredevelopment of my property where r would like designated parkland or if rwould rather pay fees, if that's the choice. I do;'t know. The otherthing is, Lake Little Joe, r don't know if you're famiriar with it butitrs down the road a few brocks, there is a lot of low land there whichm sure is unbuirdabre because it's a water table. To me a park in thatarea would be much more feasibre. you would have wildLife and area for alarger park than you rvould in this particular spot.
Emmings: I think that when it comes to you developing your properEy,issue will be negotiated anew between you and the park and RecreationCommission and the planning Commission. I don,L think that anythingPark and Rec is doing, they may be making plans but it's not going tothink constrain your devet6pme-nt in any ,ay. Am I light Barbara?
that
tha t
I
Jo Ann Hallgren: They said that additj.onal parkland can be added whendevelopment occurs to the south.
Emmings: I Ehink that,s wishful thinking. That,s what they hope to doand whethey they do it or not, thatts a question for the future.
Jo Ann Hallgren: But that.s r^rhat you say.
Erhart: I have a question for later on but jt might be an appropriatetime to ask it. what is the legal requirement for the deveroper regardingsupplying any land to the Parks and Rec?
Dacy! r think it's chaptex 17 or rB of our city code does enabre the cityto require a certain amount of land dedicatj.on for park and Recreationpurposes. In Lieu of that, the City can also impose park and trail fees.
Erhart: what is the amount of land as a percent of total land beingdeveloped or is it not measured like that?
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeti ng
Page l0
Dacy: Most communitj es use a 1g? figure and Chanhassen goes by the amount
of population thatrs going to be generated from a service area of thesubdivisions. As Lori noted in her report, how many folks could be
anticipated to use that park and to use persons per lot and crank thatinto a formula to determine the number of acres.
Erhart: what's the ordinance specifically...
Dacy: The ord inance
find it.
is based on that. If you can give me a minute, I can
Erhart: No. The report's a little scarey I think. Eirst let me ask you
this. what do you suppose the average size, in terms of acres, of the
typical subdivision that we've seen here in the last 12 to 24 months?
Dacy: Letrs answer your question this way. A 5 acre park for a
neighborhood park is the standard but for this size subdivision, torequire 5 acres out of this size subdivision is excessive.
Erhart: Right, and Lori admits that. I donrt think the Park and
Recreation Commissioners stated that. The one that I f i.nd a little
awestruck by is the sentence, typically it is in the Park and Rec policy
to request not less than 5 acres and I can insert the words, of asubdivision, for parkland. I look at this subdivision and I look at this
and I say this is very typical of subdivisions we've seen here since I've
been on the Planning Commj ssion and they're all generally around 10 acres.I think out there theyr re al1 around I0 acres and to state that 5 acres istypical rrhen the average subdivision is 10 acres somehow I question that.It just appears that $rerre, to keep kind of going back to the developers
and askj.ng for more, it gets to the point where jt is a littleintimidating for the developer.
Dacy: Donrt misunderstand r^/hat she's saying. She's saying 5 acres forthis park deficient area which includes the western half of the west sideof Minnewashta Parkway there.
Erhart: okay, maybe I am misinterpretting it. I read that...
Dacy: She's not saying, 5 acres out of thj.s 10. That,s where Mrs.Hallgren is saying, I don't want 4 acres being taken out of mine.
Erhart: I see. I read that to say that typically r^re take a minimum of 5acres for any subdivision. Okay, I take back everything I just said.
Pete Warhol: Pete Warhol, 3831, Leslee Curve and I guess Irm a little
opposed to the size of those lots. I donrt thjnk they conform to thearea. My lotrs an acre and a fourth. I know my neighborrs lots aredecent si ze.
Emmings: Where do you live?
Pete warhol: 3831 Leslee Curve.
Properties that are decent sized.
I don't
Thatrs
think that ' s
my comment.
going Lo help our
Planning Commj ssion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page II
Tom Poppitz: I live at 4669 Glendale Drive and my main concern is thelowland behind my house with the amount of vrater that sits back there andgetting rid of it after a normal winter with the spring thaw and with therains that do come in the summer. I have a couple piciures I'd like topass around and have you peopre rook at.. The first one r wirr pass aroundis after the spring thaw, where the water sits and the second one is aftera normal rain in the summertime.
Headla: Why donrt you tell them the time you took that.
1978.Tom Poppitz: These were back in
Emmings: Are these taken
having the holding pond?
in the area where we've been talking about
Tom Poppitz: Yes. The hrater closest would be
would be. Before that and the back part would
vrhere the trold ing pond
be r^rhere the two I o Es would
Erhart moveci,
favor and the
Batzli
motion
seconded to close the public hearing. AII voted incarried. The public hearing was closed.
questj.on of Mr. Johnson. Would you go over again
how it affects the property to the south?
Headla: I I ve got a
about the serrer and
Dave Johnson: I would have my engineer Ray Brandt.
Ray Brandt: Right now my plans shows a lift station in this area that
would take it up to Glendale Drive but after talking with Mr. Brown, thebest way to do this is to put the lift station at this end of the property
such that at some time in the future when the land to Ehe south does
develop, then the gravity sewer can, I would drain the vrhole project downto this point and then pump from here back up to here or maybe even overat StratforC Rj.dge but when development occurs to the south such that this
roadway gets extended, at that point then the sanitary sewer with gravity
flow out and the lift station would be abandoned or removed.
Brordn: Again, werII be looking at that further through the plans and
specs review. If I may make a brief comment. The concept study that was
done through the Stratford Ridge did not have the precise topography, if
you will. It was looking at in a concept sort of manner- Again, the taskput back to the developer is to support his conclusions with data throughthe plans and specs review proving to the City that this can not be served
by gravjty flow. If he does that, then r^/e wiII accept the lift station
concept.
Headla: By that, hrer re realJ-y sayi.ng that if the person to the southsells her property, damn well better put a road in there. So you'repredesigning something. Yourre takjng many perogatives away from that
Iand owner to the south. The land owner to the south, they may not wantto go out thaE way so now, what happens?
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeti ng
Page 12
Brovrn: I don't see the problem.
Headla: what are you going to do about the lif t statj.on?
Brown: We have at the present time 23 lift stations rdithin thenot desirable to have another lift station added to the system.
we can't deny that.
Ci ty. It's
Hor.rever,
Headla: So the Village assumes the cost of the Iift station and thebuilder goes avray scott free.
Broern: In maintenance costs, yes. Much l-ike we wouLd a public street.
there have on the futureHeadla: What impact does that street ending
development of the property to the south?
Dacy: If you recall during the Stratford Ridge subdivision, thatrs whenwe did take a broader rook at the properties under separate ownership inthis area. There's no question that we have properties developing inthese small chunks. We are predisposing the street pattern onlo thatadjacent property but we have looked at the overarr picture at least ingeneral kind of concepts and have provided a rogical street extension tothe property to the south.
Headra: But if neither stratford Ridge or this one fotrows the pran thatwas presented before. It seems Iike a builder comes in and makes hispitch and then thatrs the eray it starts going.
Dacy: Another consideration also is the topography of the site. physicarfeatures in this particular case, there was the street connection up atGlendale that made good sense to connect that in. I{e hranted to make surethere !,rere two ways to get into the subdivision as welr as providing "o*"type of access to the south. When the land to the south...
Headra: rf werre going that rrray, why aren't we consistent? on stratfordRidge we put in a cul-de-sac. Now we deadend the street. That isnrtconsistent.
Dacy: on Ehe stratford Ridge property there was along the southernboundary, there was an outlot reserved for further exiension to thert vras a cul-de-sac in the northeast corner. when we looked at thatentrance onto Minnewashta parkway versus other entrances and rre didreserve an outlot for future extension to the r./est.
west .
Headra: rrm realry opposed Eo having this coming right up to anotherpersonrs property. Thatrs a really sad thjng. at t[" bu].lder,sconvenience, this is the way it's going to b6 period. Like it or not.me thatrs wrong. ...that's anarchy. I,ve got a question on why the sosmarr a.rot. why do you want to go 259 to Jg* smJrler on your lots thanrrhat I s i.n the rest of t.he area?
To
Planning Commission
September 'l , L988 -
Mee t j. ng
Page 13
Dave Johnson: The rest of those lots were developed back at a time whenIand rras cheap and so was development. The zoning for this area is 15,0AOsquare foot minimum size. We attempted to get as many Lots as we couldget taking topography into consideration and staying within the guidelinesof your ord inance .
Headla: But you had no concern for the neighborhood
wanted to go for the maximum buck. People invest atheir property. If you use the same size property,
value in your proper ty.
whatsoever. Youlot of money intoyou still got good
Dave Johnson: I think before anybody considers that vretre coming in thereand just going for the biggest bang for the buck without regard to theneighborhood, I think they should perhaps check out some of the projectsthat we've been involved in before. I heard the same sort of commentsjust across TH 7 on that project called Brentridge in the City of
Shorewood and aII the people along Howards Point Road, in this particular
case theyrre all sitting on Iots that are approximateLy 29,000 square feet
and the area on that side of a large marsh, Boulder Bridge Farms is on theother side of Howards Point Road and you knovr, or maybe you don't butthat's $5Og,qqg.0q and up nej.ghborhood and itrs zoned for 40,90A squarefoot lots. Now east of the marsh, on the other side of the marsh it's
zoned for 2grqqg square foot lots. Now meanwhile you've got a strip ofexisting houses in there that, aII those neigilbors raised a lot of cane
and complained that you're going Eo hurt the value of our houses if youput in, in this case they changed the zonj nq to 2A,qgO aod r./e put in an
average of 26,006 pLts for a lot. But the neighbors were all- up in armsyet nov, that the project is in there, the quality of the house, the sizesof the house and the layout, it's going to be a nice addition to thecommunity. Everybody's scared when land thatrs been sitting there vacant
and they've had the beautiful views of the raw land and gotentially in
some cases the use of it, that this developer is just going to come in andrack the area. That doesn't happen to be the case. we intend to put in a
nice subdivision with nice houses. werre conforming to the City's
requirements and then some. I guess I don't share the view that thedifference of 3,ggT square foot per Iot is a significant enough difference
to say that it's going to be a crummy development.
Headla: Itrs more than 3,090. You're talki.ng L5,6gg lots and the others
axe 22,q0g to over 4A,660.
Dave Johnson: The figures I heard up here were, mine are. . .
Headla: Let me ask
sedimentation pond,
put it back in Your
some other ques t i ons
why is that so close
own l and?
wi 1I you please. The
to the neighbors? Why didnrt you
Dave Johnson: I'II defer that
Headla: I see a common thread
disturbed about it.
to my englneer.
through this whole thing and Irm really
Plannj.ng Commi ss ion
September 7, I988 -
Meet i ng
Page 14
Ray Brandt: You've got to put the ponding area in the loe, end of the
project. You canrt put it in the high end of the project. The lov,r end of
the project is right here. This is where the drainage goes. This wholeproperty, except for possibly a little corner down here, drains todayright through to this Iow area, through this drainage swa1e. This ponding
area can do nothing but improve the situation because all the storm water
goes into the pond and has a chance to settle out which it doesn't do no$/.
There's capacity here in this pond for almost 8 inches of rain in a 24
hour period. If we get more than that, maybe I0 inches of rain like we
had last year in JuIy, there's an overflow from the dike at 964.5 which
would go over the dike, down into the swale thatrs there now.
Headla: I disagree with your reasoning. Why you've put
corner where it's minimum disturbance to the rest of the
move it up further and catch probably 75% to 80? of the
off of there.
that off in
land. You
water com i ng
a
canin
Ray Brandt: Where should I move it to?
Head 1a :getting where that onea1I this. . .
right angle in the road is. The point is, you're
Ray Brandt:
proj ect.You can't put it uphill. You put it at the low end of the
Headla: But you don't have to put it at the bottom end either. You wantto catch LggZ, maybe... I see this, you're totally coming in, yourre
going to have water in that pond, a lot more than it is now. If theyrvegot kids or pets going in there, it's going to be aoother mess. You canrthelp but get alray from that.
Ray Brandt: There will be no water standing there except after a rain fora day until it drains out.
Headla: I donrt think it's going to be just a day. Another common threadI see is the builder wants to be part of the pleasant Acres. He r^rants
access to the lake. Pleasant Acres concern to be pJ-aced but when it comesto providing park area for that whole Pleasant Acres, he doesn,t r,.rant todo that. He wants to back away and make them give up an acre of that. Ifyourre part of Pleasant Acres, yourre part of the problem damnit, but whygive park area. Somebody should provj.de it. Right now the way it's laidout, just like that road, the people to the south are going to have tobury that and thatrs wrong. Pleasant Acres created the probl-em, I thj.nkthat whole thing should be solved by Pleasant Acres. Another cofltmonthread I see j.s when you had your meeting, the developer, when you talkedto the neighbors, it was on a week night. Nor^, the neighbors that I talkedto, most of them were gone. If you called it on a weekend, you woul,d havehad a lot better attendance.
Dave Johnson: I don't fol-]ow that logic at all.
Headla: when did you have your meeting?
PI ann j. ng Commissj on
September 7, I988 -
Meeting
Page 15
Dave Johnson: l{e had it on a week night. Either wednesday or Thursday.
Headla: Right and people... I think some were concerned,hear that. The drai.nage concern there, there shouldntt beon that should there?
they wanted to
any real effect
Dacy: The dra i nage?
Headla: Yes.
Dacy: Larry?
Brown: Agarn, there's concern from the homeowners regarding Ehe potentialfloodj.ng of it and we're working to make sure that that doesn,t hippen.
Headla: Then I have one Last comment. This letter from the forester.I'd like to have the forester come over to my house and take a look to thenorth and terr me he confirmed to see the land thatts straight bare ratherthan a bunch of Box Elder on it. On his wording there, Box Elder is trashtrees but vrhen you look at that l-and now, there are trees on it. There issomething green. Now if they want to take those trees down, okay, maybethat makes sense but I think they shouLd replace the equivalent number of
wood that they take down. I thjnk they ought to replace the equivalent
somewhere along with the development of that. Thatrs all I have.
Batzli: Ird like to say one thing about the park issue. As I understandit, for a single family detached dwelling Lots, you consider an average of
3 persons per lot and you need I acre for 76 people. Thatts what the park
and Recreation Commission goes for so i.t appears here there's rrnat, 27Iots. l acre does, in theory obtain what they recommend or it comes veryclose. within the guidelines of r^rha t our ordinance says for that so Ithink more than I acre is outrageous and I acre is probably about righton. I was interested in those pictures that vrere passed aroun<i in thatthat appears to me to be where we're going to put the drainage swale andthe holding pond. You said earlier that yourre going to put the swale soif there is overflow, if there is an event greater than the Lqg yeay
storm, it's going to overflow into the creek? ThaEis what yourre working
on not/ with their engineer to come up with something like that?
Brown: That t s correct.
Batzlj.: It appears from those pictures that thatrs standing water and Itm
going to assume that it's there more than a day after the rains take place
so when you construct a holding pond Iike th is, you normally redo the
bottom of it or something in order to have it drain properly? Right nor.,the engineer indicated somethj.ng you could do there for a short while. Isthat the case or is this thing going to co}lect water and hold -,vater?
Brown: Most of our ponds with in the City are constructed as what
a dry pond, usually drain out within a day so there shouldn't bewater if the pond is constructed correctly.
we call
standing
Planning Commi ssion
September 7, I988 -
Meeting
Page 15
Batzli: Did we not impose restrictions on grading within drainage pondareas that were located within areas that weren,t outlots in previousdevelopments? I thought for some reason, I canrt remember the name ofthat we did a big drainage swale and there were going to be Covenantsimposed on the homeowners that they couldn't adjust that grading.
ir,
concern
alter that
Brovrn: Thatrs correct. That was inobvj.ously, as you eluded to, is thatsort of ponding configuration.
Stratford Ridge. Staff'sa builder not come in and
Batzli: Or the private individuala swal.e in their backyard.
that moves in there if they dontt want
Brown: Correct.
Brown: It has the potential Eo be resolved later.
Batzri: rrd like to see something like that put into the recommendations
here. personally. I disagree with, somewhat, not with the City Attorney,sopinion necessarily but that by adding 15 more lots that are ible to u3e abeachrot does not increase it's use. r think it's rudicrous to say that.Thatrs just a comment that I'11 make and I donrt Ehink hre can real-lyaddress it but r think that's a silly thing to say and r canrt imagine whywe canrt address that. If werre told r4/e can't address it... a questionfor Larry. Do vJe not need easements if a lift station is necessary?
Brown: The lift station, and IrII simply check here...
Batzli: r $ras referring in particurar to the staff report condiEion 7.The appricant wirr provide the city with easements to service this parcelby gravity sewer unress otherwise demonstrated that a lift station isnecessary. That seems to me to say that r,re don,t need any easements if alift station is necessary.
Brown: okay, maybe my condition was unclear. Going back to this conceptplan that was done a whil"e ago showed sanitary sewei running down theproposed tot l and Lot 2 in Brock 3. Excuse me, that's Lot 2 and Lot 3 0fBrock 3- That common rot 1ine. obviousry, r tarked $rith Mr. eoppitz, -on-
of the adjacent lot owners there. There is a potentiar that saniiary-se$rer might run down that lot line that r mentioned and through thePleasant Acre lots there to Glendale Avenue if sufficient easements exist.obviously the city can not go back through the preasant Acres subdivisionand require more easements unless we condemn and we certainry don't $rantto do that at this point so we'd rather have the applicant provide anadditional easement through possibly Lot 2 or 3 to accomodate the existingeasement within the pleasant Acres if this becomes necessary. Again, thetask is back to the developer to provi.de us with that data.
Batzli: r thought he was indicating that he may put in a temporary riftstation and then go to the gravity.
BatzIi: So the condition
rrrhat you two dec ide?
may change at the City council depending upon
Planning Comm j. ss i on
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 17
Brown: That I s correct.
be along Lots 2 and 3 of
Batzli: Barb, I rrant
dontt think you quite
end of that road that
again that I'd be looking for wouldThe easement
BIock 3.
to ask the question that I thjnk Dave asked and Ianswered it. why isn't there a cul-de-sac at thegets to the eastern border? What is that? South?
Brown:
Batzl i :
Dacy: The City has
Ehat point. That'sthat.
Southwestern.
Even if it's a temporary cul-de-sac. Whatever.
the perogatj ve to require a temporary turn around atfine. Larry, I donrt knoe, if you wanted to address
Brown: The basis for the cul-de-sacs, giving it a long deadend road isbasically for fire protection vehicles so they don,t have to back a1I theway out. Given like our aerial truck or a hook and ladder or whatever.PubIic Safety, we confronted public Safety regarding this and Jim Chaffee,the Public Safety Director stated that it was not required in this. Hefelt that the length which I w j.11 bring to the Commissionrs attention, Imentioned was L,qgg feet. My error, it is only 500 feet. He stated thatit was not required in that instance.
Batzli: Thatrs interesting, but that's his decision. I guess I,d preferto see... Last two comments, one is, I would prefer to see the developer
rearrange Lots 1, 2 and 3 with 3 and 4. Whichever the ones are that don't
have the required frontage rather than going for a variance. I don'tthink the lots in this case deserve a variance. I think he's packing themin there and he can rearrange them a litt1e bit to get the requiredfootage. Itrs his hardship to developing around this corner. I also
would like to ask the question that we talked about before regarding
blending neighborhoods. I think we talked about amending the ordinance tobIend. Any comments?
Conrad: This is a fun one, because thatrs a concern of mine. In thj.sparticular case wetre not that far different than, I'm sure the residents
don't care to hear that but at leasE we're withio 252. I get real upset
when new developments are coming in at L5,6g0, all at L5,Tgq square feet
and they're in areas where the other houses that are there are over anacre. There werre talking about 300?-490?. This is really quite minor
compared to what we've seen over the past several years.
Headla 3 ...when
Ridge.
you consider all the Pleasant Acres or/and Stratford
Conrad: Bottom line is, the ordinance says L5.bqg Dave and werve gone
through that and what the ordinance says is what the developer has to meet
and we don't have any control over that unless we change the ordinance.FIat out. Period. End of sentence. End of whatever. The developer only
has to meet the minimum and when we chanced ordinances a couple years ago,
we didn't have too many peopl-e in this chamber saying ere need bigger loL
sizes. We had very few people showsection in there where we proposed
We proposed that. Nobody showed upTherefore, the City had the chanceoption to come in at l-5,Agg. ThisIt's less than the neighborhood but
developments werve seen.
up for those meetings. We had aa 49,606 square foot zoning district.for that meeting. Nobody showed,
and right now the developer has thedeveloper is coming in more than that.it's sure far closer than most of the
Batzli: I agree that the ordinance says L5,6AA but I rrould like toproceed post haste $rith taking a look at that blending.
Conrad: Can you do that in the next couple of days Barbara?
Dacy: Sure.
Conrad: I agree r,rith that Brian. This is a real problem area because Ithink we want new deveropments to brend in. we just rearry do and thereare definite economics that are imposed on deveropers right now versusdeveropers 10 years ago or 2q years ago and that can be incorporated intoour ordinance and our thinking. Lot sizes may never be as big as theyused to be but that doesn't mean that we can't try to match neighuorh6oasand new deveropments into the old neighborhoods. we just haveni t gottenthere yet. We don't have an ordinance that we can move back on to saythis is not in concert with the existing deveropment. our ordinancedoesn I t do that.
Emmings: I just noticed one thing here.Lots I through 5, Block 2 and that should
Dacy: That I s correct.
On recommendation IsayBlock3Itake , it saysit.
Conrad: I agree with a lot of the comments. Larry, just a quick questionthat this issue brings up. when $re put a pond in on i piece of pro-perty,you kind of erant that to take care of the drainage obviousry uut you rinaof r.rant it to be an asset at the same time, if y6u can. A iot ofdeveropnents and the neighborhoods can be upset if you put a pond in ordonrt put a pond in. Different people have different plrspeclives. A rotof the ponding that rare pu! up, that capt.ure drainage riom subdjvisions,can be permanent ponds. Attractive ana rarhatever. rn this particular caseitrs meant to be a dry pond. Do we do anything to make it ittractive?Does that mean that the land stays as it is and it is our posture thatthat is good because it can be good? or do we try to make'ihings pi"ttvvrith that pond? What,s our posture in the City?
Brovrn: r think you laid it out werl. There's two possi.birities. Eitheryou construct the dry pond which is going to add probably the, r call itthe meado, grass. Thatrs probabry not a very good term Lut itrs themeadow grass that's out there now along the edge of the pond. obviousrythe edge of that vegetation is going to depend on how many successiverains you get. The $/ater $rirr potentiarry stand in that ior a day andthen maybe drain off. rf we have 14 continuous days, we slowly start todeteriorate the vegetation but if jt's a dry pond, usually the banks andthe area thatrs not directly affected wirr be a meadow gri.". rf on the
Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1988 - Page 18
Planning Commission
September 7, I988 -
Meet i ng
Page 19
Dacy: Maybe the applicant may v,rant to comment on that also. we talkedabout that. That was the recommendation from the Park and Rec Commission.
There were other issues regarding preliminary plat that had to be
discussed. Final decision would be up to t.he Council as to whether or notthey $rould go along with the Park and Rec Commission's action.
Conrad: so the applicant said
show where it would be?
that I prefer not to have a park? Not to
Dave Johnson: I received a l-etter from Lori Sietsema with her
recommendations on it basically as it related to a park. It said thatthey prefer to get a 5 acre park. They didnrt feel they could take 5
acres from this project. That would be considered a taking, I believe isthe $rord she used. Sbe said in light of that, it was her recommendationthat they look for parkland closer to Lake Joe and that they require a
cash park dedication fee from me in lieu of taking any land. Then she
went on to state that they wanted, because there was a through street inthere, they wanted a trail put along the side of the through street. When
I discussed what that entailed, I said well that sounds fine with me if
thatis your recommendation. I had a prior commitment and I didntt go tothe Park and Rec meeting because I felt they would probably Iisten to what
the staff suggested aod rrhat the staff suggested was fine with me. After
the Park and Rec meeting, I was contacted and told that t.hey wanted two
lots. It doesnrt show the tra j.l system on the one that you have. we
havenrt put it in. I don't have a problem with that and I prefer the cash
donation rather than the land. Irm not particularly in favor of a I acrepark. I donrt think it does much for the project and Mrs. Hallgren may or
may not develop her Land in the near future and it may or may not work out
so that you're able to get more land there with 1l acres. I doubt you
could get much more than an acre there and Irm not so sure that a 2 acrepark is, if there is more land not. very far away where a 5 acre one could
be gotten, I think that vrould make more sense. I don't know. I intend to
have a Park and Rec meeting thj.s Tuesday which I r.rilI attend. Itis goi.ng
to be discussed here.
other hand you decide that you want to enhance the wildlife aspect, createa wet pond and then you create another concern, at least from my pastexperience with neighborhoods, of safety versus smalI children in yourpond. To create a cattail situation which would enhance a lot of wildlife
anC yourre Iooking at a minimum of about 3 feet of vrater which residentsoften times donrt like because of the safety problems.
Conrad: I think it comes down to some preferences and priorities ofdevelopers and neighborhoods. I have my preference on what I would nant
and I think there's not al\rays total agreement on what I believe would bebest to improve the value of the neighborhood. I think I'II just Ieavethat alone. I vranted to raise the issue. Dave, you were concerned thattheyrre putting the ponding close to neighbors. On the other hand, that
can be an asset too. I think you can cut this thing a couple differentways. It all depends on your perspective. Barbara, for you basicali.y, ifthe folks to the south, two questions. One, why are we looking at a platwithout a park on it?
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 20
conrad: rrm kind of lost a little bit. so what did park and Rec say?They want an acre maybe here but maybe they hrant a different park soireother place? Thatrs what I just heard. What are they looking for andit's not even our business except as to how it affects this plat and Idonrt like to see a plat that doesnrt have a park that somebody says youshould have and send it to City Council. I'm kind of lost.
Dacy: If the Council comes back and agrees with the park and RecCommission action to locate a park in the plat, the applicant will berequired to submit a_ revised plat. we felt uncomfortable delaying theapplicant's hearing in front of the pranning commission based 6n i coupreof options that the park and Rec commission, obviousry werre looking ai avariety of options on this piece of property, and makE a recommendaiionto Council. So we have three different bodies maybe saying threedifferent thi ngs.
Conrad: On the park and Rec target map, where they want to put parks, dowe have a little bullseye over this parcel? Have you seen that map?
Dacy: They donrt have a specific plan. They're reacting to this area ingeneral as being park deficient.
Ladd, where you,re just looking at the..., the parkto the south. That paragraph before it, that kind
beingof preempts
Head la :
expandedit.
Conrad: In terms of running agood planning Dave. The firstput any roads anyplace becausedevelops. We just dontt know.we're going to take a wild stab
road into an adjacent property, that isgroup comes in, you can't just say donrt
hre never know when the next property
The best planners can do is say hey,at it and we could force cul-de-sacs too.
Headla: Cul-de-sacs would be much more tolerable.
Conrad: Then yourve got access problems. Then yourve safety problems.r bring this up not that we haven't gone through this before but r thinkyou shourd hear some of the things $re talk auout. you put a cur-de-sacin. there, which specificalry the rady with the property to the south, weput a cul-de-sac in, we have additionar safety lroBremi. rypiciriy-]rou-try not to have cur-de-sacs but the neighbors siy we rike cu1-ae-sicibecause it gives a sense -of conmunity. So thereis a lot of th!.ngs thatgo into some of this stuff but back io something kind of real. 6y navinga road that abuts up to a neighboring property, does that absotut6ry meaiwerre-going to connect to it or does t[rat mean that in the future, thenext landoerner may say, hey I don't want to connect? For the lady thathas that property, erhat are we saying to them?
Dacy: Absolutely, LTTZ, of course r{e cantt guarantee that but itprovides for a rogical extension. when we rook at the half section, thisis the stratford Ridge property and we reserved an easement arr alongthere and the road comes in like this. It would be natural to make thatsome kind of connection back up to Minnewashta parkway. Maybe acul-de-sac back in here and on down. r think your prlvious cornment $ras
Planning Comm j.ssion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 2I
right. Werre doing the best that $re can knowing
now and we had a previous guide with the overalltrying our best to reserve all possible opt j.ons.
the factors
by B R!.1 when
that we know
we were
Conrad: I do agree with the staff report and the staff report Ealksabout, and basically I don't agree with any variances. I think thedeveloper should live with the Chanhassen ordinances as they are and wedonrt create subdivisions and have a variety of variances created by thatsubdivision. Yourve got a big block of property that can be divided a lotof different ways and I donrt think we a1low variances. At least Idonrt feel comfortable with that. The balance of the staff report lookspretty good to me.
Emmings: I was just going to fo1low up on his comment. His last
comment. Just like the developer is allowed to develop Iots as small as
].5,0gg, he gets the benefit of that. He gets a burden here, it seems to
me, of having to develop that corner in compliance with our ordinancetoo. we donrt just give him a variance because it doesn't fit his plan.
He doesn't get a variance to the things that donrt f j.t his plan when he's
using the ordinance to develop rather smaLl loEs. I think particularlyin this case we donrt grant variances.
Ellson: I agree, I don't like grant ing a variance so I wouldn't go alongwith a variance for any of the setbacks less than 90 feet. I don't
think, Irm probably more along the lines of Ladd. I donrt really think
there's a disadvantage to having a holding pond. I donrt see t.hat as anegative. I see that as an undeveloped land and these people wanted as
much undeveloped as they could have and this is nore or Iess designating
that as never being developed. If they didn't want to have it. developed,if they had water standing 1g yeals ago in the back there now, I donrt
see that it's going to look a whole lot d j.f f erent only now itrs going to
be designated. If you can clear off the run-off of the LTA year storm or
whatever, I think itrs actually an improvement. I don't like Ehe idea of
temporary things like the lift station. I know that we canrt like not do
it or whatever but if there was a way around something like that, I'd
like to see it. I think once you say temporary, I'd like to have an
ending date. As of when rvill it stop being temporary versus an ongoing
thing. I prefer to stay away from anything that's temporary. I like the
designation of a park and from Briants reasoning, it makes sense that I
acre should be sufficient. I think it's nice to have a neighborhood
v,rhere you can walk to a park and at least have some swings or a slide or
something for young children and that and I also think that a bike trail
is nice for anyone within Chanhassen. Especially a new development that
you can bike around it. Itrs a nice addition to any development so Ird
like to see both the park and the I acre park. I agree 5 acres is a bit
much but I really would advise the Homeovrners Associatjon to check j.nto
your legal options as your deed goes. You may certainly_have quite a lot
of grouna to stand on that maybe you havenrt explored and I would really
recommend that they do that as far as the beachlot. I probably would go
atong with j.t. Again, rrm not thr j.lled with the size of the lots either
but we can't change the law just because we don't like it. vler ve already
agreed that this is going to be the law and I canrt then say, but I donrt
agree wi.th it for you and I do agree with it for you so I think as long
Planning Commi ss i on
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 22
ask you something here Barb.by the State?
as he's meeting that ordinance, whether I Iike it necessarilycan't really choose that. I woutd really be able to do muchsize of that law. I think hers meeting 6ur requJ.rements andhe can do. That's aII we can hold him to.
or not, I
about thethat's all
Erhart: Let mea required body
The Planning Commission is
Dacy: Yes.
Erhart:Is the
By StateDacy :
Emmings: So are we supposedreview their recomrnenda t i onssrant to ?
Park and Rec?
Statute? I can I t say for sure. . .
Erhart: r guess r heard a coupre statements here tonight that r disagreewith and that is that parks are not our business. r,v6 heard that as wego al.ng here over the years. r think, r might be wrong r rrve been wrongonce before- rn fact once arready tonight, but r think-parks are ourbusiness. r venture to say that parks and Recs are not I required bodyand I might come and state that Irm aII for parks and Recs andr encourage their work. They're needed and everything but r think it isour rrrork to review park and Rec r ecommenda t ions . rt is a rand pranningsubject. There's a purpose that they meet prior to us. I thini thepurpose is so we can review their recommenditions and see how it fitsinto the broader view of rand planning. r guess maybe we shourd take itup aftervrards in a discussion but r think we aLl oulnt to make a decision$rhether it's our job or find out whether itrs our i5b because r think itis. r think r'd like to have us dear with that isiue when hre go along.
Emmings: Let me interrupt you. Barb, can you comment on that? How dothe Planning commission and park and Rec rerate to one another? Are theyparalleL bodies both making recommendations to the city councir?
Dacy: That's the way the flow chart works.
to review park issues? Are we supposedbecause they meet before us? Can we if to
we
Dacy: That has not been the policy in the past. Timrs right from thestandpoint that it is a rand pranning issue and the commission in thepast actions have made comments one iay or the other on parks and trairsor $rhatever. Just in general things. We have not speciiicaLly made apoint of each item to review the alpropriateness of 'park inJ n""'.recommendation because they report- alrictty to the co"""iil- Maybe whatwe could do in the future is_maybe get the Chairman from each boiytogether to talk about that j.ssue.
planning issue and itsee why $re should sayand look j. ng at theeither and winding up
Enmings: you can see on the one hand that it is aseems appropriate for us to address it and I donrtwe canrt but on the other hand, if they're meetingwhole thingr therers no sense in duplicating effoite/ith cont.rary proposal s.
Planning Commi ss i on
September 7, I98 8 -
Meeti ng
Page 23
Erhart: Irm not suggesting that. I suggest that we should certainly usetheir input but using the precedence that we have corunented, ItlIcoNnent. r think the issue regarding the confusion of this r acre versusfee and so forth. It seems to me it makes more sense to have the park
and Rec Commission, if there are deficient areas, and I know there are aIot of deficient areas, somehow they should take and look at the city andfind those areas and put them in the land plan some 5 acre parcels. Idonrt thj.nk you can take in the middle of the process where you take a 5or 10 acre subdivisions and somehov, expect to come out ever with some 5acre parks. I think it makes good sense, if youtre going to have a park,you make it 5 acres. That sounds very logicaL. If youtre going to have
swj.ngs and baseball, softball fields but it seemed to me rather thantrying to sort of take a half hearted account from this developer and saywell we'd like 5 acre so then back off. we kind of look foolish. Letrs
make the plan for 5 acre parks and letrs get them on the Comp plan sopeople are notiiied years in advance that we think we,re going to lookfor a park. Anyway, that's enough said on that. I think we should dothe trails. I think itrs too bad we donrt have a 5 acre plan here. Itrstoo late to try to fit in l acre here and 4 acres from the lady to thesouth. It think it's too late. Let's get the fees and trails in there
noe, so thatrs my comment. Irm against, very much against the variancecoinciding with the comments that have been made. You havenrt got a
chance of getting the variance and you ought to go back and change yourplan. I do have, as we watched this go along here though, empathy forthe situation where we do have sharp curves and we attempt to put lots on
them and we require the 90 foot frontage at the street line. I would beinterested in getting involved in looking at the ordinance to allow oncurves, that on the outside portion of the curve, that we use another wayto measure. One would be the setback line. A couple things so you end
up building here, otherwise you're always going to have a couple lots ona curve that are going to be 50? bigger than the other lots. What it
does is it ends up skewing your data so when you look at this
subdivision, it says 17,ggI square foot average lot but 9gZ of the Iots
are I5r000 square feet. Itrs because youtve got curve lots that are
larger. I think if you would givel just in the same way we change the
ordinance to reduce the minimum lot depth to 125 feet to give the
developer more flexibility in doing a design, I think reviewing the
ordinance as far as curve Iots and frontage, if we have the energy and
!'rant to do that, I think itrs a good idea.
Batzli: wouldnrt that impact just putting in more small lots? where
there's a couple big lots. . .
Erhart: No, it would frave no
onJ-y have affect on how much
Batzli: Then you could make
affect on the overall lot size. It would
frontage is required.
the outside radius 1ot smalLer.
You could make them smaller.
That doesnrt mean you're going to make Ehat always bigger.
Erhar t :
Bat z1i. :
Planning Commission
September 7, L988 -
Meeting
Page 24
Erhart:That's
what I s
my purpose.
Batzli:purpose?
Erhart: The purpose of it is todesigning a better pIan.give the developer more flex ibi 1i ty 1n
not
the
Conrad: I think the logic woulddo we like the grid of streets?penalize a developer for puttingtalking about this plan at aII.
be, do we like curves in our streets orIntersecting and whatever? Ighyin some curves and I'm not specificallyShould we encourage sharp curves?
Erhart: Being that nobodyr s interested in it, thatrs fine. Theponding, I've got a question on it. t-ly preference is to encouragepermanent in ponds. r'd like to ask the engineer rdhy, or the deieloper,why make the decision to go basically with a temporary holding pond ;sopposed to a permanent pond?
Erhart: How big are those, asponds in surface area?
defined in the map here, how big are those
Ray Brandt: I believe, unless you can have a larger pond, this reallyisn.rt that big of a pond to have $rater standing in it. Ii it was...itmight be better for the wildlife. r donrt hav6 a 2 acre pond. r have a1.6 acre per foot capacity. r have a large capacity..., lomewhaE rargecapacity but itrs not r.6 acres of water. A h;rf acre of water is I ieetdeep. Something like that.
Ray Brandt: I don,t know.an acre. l4aybe 7 /L7lh's of
guessing theyrre half maybe G/lOEht s ofacre of water at the top.
I'm
an
Erhart: Both ponds combined or is that one pond?
Ray Brandt: IErs all one pond.
Erhart: And yourgets smaller, thepermanent bas i s?
feel ing is tha tless Iikelihood ln a
that
half
it's an acre
9oin9 to
pond, as the
reta i.n wa ter
pond
ona
Ray Brandt: No, you can make it retain water buthad a couple acres of wetland, I r,/ould think thathaving say a half acre of wetland. A long narrow
I don't know, if you
rrou ld be better thanhalf acre of wetland.
Erhart: I donrt know. _ It's probably down to, again you say who,sopinion it is, but if r guess if r wis rookini r"r i i"i in6 n.a ".,opportunity to buy one and not having ki.ds, alain, I think yourve got alot of choices. The comments. about neighbors-on iia", lf pSoplehave kids they don't have to buy the ro[ on a pond because there arenrtthat many rots with ponds. As a person who wo-uLd buy a rot, r donrt findluyi.ns a permanent ponded rot, itid be worth =o*" mo-ney to me becauseI like ducks and frogs I guess. Anyway, my preference is to havepermanent water if poss ibIe.
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 25
I see this pond as one that will end up being... It is aRay Brandt:
benefit...
Erhart: WelI, you could make it
Ray Brandt. You could, yes you
Erhart: If the objective was toto figure out.
that way.
couId.
have a pond, that's r"rhat yourre trying
Emmings: Larry, did you have a comment on this?
Brown: Just a point of clarification. Itm not sure if the dated plans
that was sent out to the Commission versus the most recent. My concernin addressing the ponding issue was to go back to the engineer and say,letrs create one larger pond versus three tiny ponds which have morepotential to fail so the engineer has revised that on my set andI apologize that the revision on the pond, if yours shows three.
Erhart: Yes, mine shorrs smaller ones. The cul-de-sac Ehing is kind of
another issue. I guess I'd leave that to the judgment of staff and
engineering and other. The problem is, if you run it right up to the end
and you don't ever use it, then you've created a permanent problem. Onthe other hand, if you got a 90? chance that someone is goign to use it
as an extension to put a cul-de-sac in, then you've got 4 houses that end
up building at an angle to the street. How do you get rid of itz You
canrt so I guess it comes down to a judgment thing. If you think therers
a 90t chance it's going to be extended, I guess I'd favor running to the
end so the houses end up being along the street parallel. The lot sizes
thing, the last issue to comment on, again, as you knor,J Itm somewhat of
a proponent of smaller lot sizes. On the other hand, the citizens I
think over the last year in many of these subdivisions have expressed
their desire for us to create a solution where we take into consideration
existing homeowners in Chanhassen. I do think it's time we do address
this. I don't think it will be that difficult if we just sit down, and
r'd volunteer to spend some time outside of the Planning commission
meeting and I kno$, BiIl on the Council has commented to try and come up
with the formula approach to solving the problem of blending. I think
the citizens have Ueen in here over and over agai.n asking us to do it and
I think we ought to do it. That's ny last cotunent.
Headla: Itd like to talk about that pond some more- wherers the
drainage of that pond? where do you drain the water out of the
sedjmentation Pond?
Ray Brandt: To the swale in the bac k.
Located from Ehe bottom of the pond? Is it atHeadla: where is the piPe
4, l0 feel?
Ray Brandt: Itrs at the bottom of the pond.
Planning Commission
September 7, l98S -
Meeting
Page 25
Headra: Now that's got a real high water rever. That whole rand. we'regoing to be draining that thing continuousry. However, if you raise theI'ever of that pipe, maybe you would have a very attraciive iona in thatarea. stirl have enough in reserve so when you have that hEavy rain, itwonrt go-.-overfrow. r think there's a good possibirity because thatplace is wet. rt's been wet as rong as i can renember. For many, manyyears. You donrt ride your horse over that. It's just too wet. Ifthere were some way we could r^rork that with the neilhbors and them, maybeit could be turned into a real asset.
Emmings: The r.roman sitting underneath the TV raised her hand at onepoint. Did you have a conment that you wanted to make?
Mae Vanderbruggen, 4gL6 clendale Drive:knows. AII of us and you said that, theI donrt remember your name.
The pond, it
gentleman to
wet, as Daveleft, I'm sorry
is
the
Mae vanderbruggen: yes. How wour-d we keep this? r rike wirdrife myserfand r love the ducks on our yards, the deei in the back and arr that butr can understand we can not keep it from developing. How can we keepthis-pond, or get this pond and with x number oi n6ignbors in this newdevelopment, hovJ will the deer and the ducks and atl of thisbeautification come to this particular pond?
Emmings: The guy who likes the frogs?
Erhart: How would you guarantee that a duck'sdonrt know that you can.
going to nest there? I
Mae Vanderbruggen:
do have ducks that
ear Iy.
I say it becausenest there. This
we've livedyear we had
there a long time and wethe ducks but they Ieft
Erhart: I knos, vrhat Ird do. I haveyard and I go down to the RobbinsdaLeevery year that are wild. They stayThey're beautiful. They quack in theleave. It's very convenient. If theable to do that.
like this, in fact it's inStore and I buy 8 duckJ.ingsall year. I feed them.
summer and in the fall theywasnrt there, I wouldn't be
a pond
Fa rmthere
late
pond
my
Mae. Vanderbruggen: The grade will be definitely a problem. Like I say,just so we at preasant Acres i.n the end, if ttil ilit-po*p-ao"=n,t handrethe situation as it shourd or when, are we going to gui "to.. sewer inthere? Because when it rains, it gushes. aown iito tiat, this way, downto the south. Rishr down to iake iirginii t;.-;;;.--'iiiti"^tn"drainageway plus the road into Lake Virgini] and it does, ;e do have anice roaring creek.
acre
parkn in
some
park in
inhere that
thi ng s
some
Emmings: Irve got a few comments here myself. Having a Ithis area seems to me to be a nice idea. I'd like to see athere. I think rhere are going ro be families *iin-.i,iii.!can use a park like that. It,s not big enough maybe to dobut it,s big enough certainly to have i nice-play'..". u.,J ma ybe
PI ann j. ng Commission
September 7, I98 8 -
Meet i ng
Page 27
playground equipment and stuff like that and I think thatrs a niceamenity in any neighborhood. As far as the pond goes, I think thelocation is right and I thi.nk the location is right because I think it
does the least violence to what presently exists. The water, accordingto the pictures we were shown, collects there no$r. It may be they'recontaining the area that it flows to a little bit and that,s fine withme. Whether or not therers a pond, whether it's a dry pond or a wetpond, it seems to me on the one hand, the important thing is from anengineering point of view, is that the water gets handled and whetherthatts best handled by a wet pond or a dry pond, I surely don't knov, butI trust that our City rngineer will know by the time this thing gets
approved and it will have some good method of handling water. Erom thestandpoint of $rhether therers a wet or a dry pond, as to lrhether it.s anice amenity, it seems to me that's strictly in the hands of thedeveloper. If he thinks it will raise the value of the property he,sgoing to sel1, to have a permanent pond there, then thatrs what he'1I do.If he doesnrt think it will raise the value or if he doesn't care, thenhe wonrt. It seems to me itrs appropriate that he gets to make thatdecision so I donrt care vrhat he does. I care that the water gets intothe holding pond. I agree that there shouldn't be any varj.ance and thathe should have to adjust his Iots to meet the ordinance. On the roadthat deadends to the south there, it seems to me that somehow there oughtto be a turn around there and Irm really kind of surprised that ourPubIic Safety Director doesnrt want the turn around there for emergencyvehicles or that our people who plow the roads don't want it as a turn
around for snowplows. I donrt understand that but I guess they've spoken
and if they donrt want to do it, fine. The rest of it, the size of the
Iots doesn't bother me that much. when I look at how the l-ots line up,
it doesn't bother me too much. I don't think we're that far off. I do
have to take a little bit of issue with some of the comments and frankly
Irve got to tell you Irm surprised to hear myself say this but this guy
owns a piece of property and he has a right to develop that pro.oerty andas Iong as hers meetj.ng our ordinance, itrs inapproprj.ate for us, I
think, to sit up here and say you canrt develop your land pretty much the
eray he wants to as long as he meets the ordinance that werve got and he's
done that. I know that neighbors get used to looking at empty land and
they prefer to see it that way and prefer to see deer walk j.ng through
there and everything else. That guy owns a piece of land, your land thatyourre on before you had houses on there and probably there were some
neighbors that came in and didn't want to see all your houses going in
there at that time. This j.s a thing we face over and over again here butbasically he's put together a project that f its. Having that road going
to the south tor^rard the Hall-gren property there, again and again Dave, on
that issue in parEicular, $rhen werve had neighboring parcels developj.ng
at or close to the same time, werve tried to preserve oPtions so they can
come in. I think that's been planned in here and r think if that hadn't
been the rule, we would have said how are you going to connect thi.s oneto the south because thatrs what we've done on every other one again and
again and we've been real consistent about that. I think in fact werve
gone out of our way to find ways to hook them together. I spoke mypiece.
Planning Commission
September 7, L988 -
Meeting
Page 28
Erhart: Laxxy, do we take
we want them wet or dry or
developer ?
theis
position on
that totally
drainage ponds, whetherthe discretion of the
these
up to
Brown: Therers a couple of things that I havenrt mentioned yet that may
come into play. Bear with me if you will. IIII try to make this asbrief as possible. A short scenario. Think of these ponds as a bowl . Ifyou put 5 feet of r^rater in that bowl , that reduces the capacity of thatpond to store vrater. That 5 feet is no longer there to store additional
water.
Erhart: Unless you make it 5 feet deeper.
Erhart: But if somebody comes in and wants adiscourage them do you?
wet pond, you don't try to
Batzli: That raises the issue of if it is actually an enlargementuse, what are the City's remedies to limit the use? Anything? Ithat eras the City Attorney's point, is that do we go in and take aphysical counting of people?
of thethink
Emmings: I thi.nk what the City Attorney is saying is that the thing thatcreated this took in a certain amount of land. It didn,t take in acertain number of people and however that land may be developed,intensively or not intensivety, but however it's developed, whoever I s onthat land has a right to use that access. We can limit the boats and
Brown: Unless you make it 5 feet deeper or what more often happens is 5feet higher because you run into ground rrater in this area, which we
suspect because of the poor soil conditions. The developer will dig
down, run into the water plus the fact that he has to match into theelevation of the existing creek so he can get enough slope to have itflow properly to this channel . You canrt 90 below the creek or the creekwill flow back into the pond. Create a back flor,, situation so in askingthe devel-oper to create a wet pond where he wants a dry pond, I'm afraid
what herd end up doing is having to create a berm up to get the requiredponding storage. Right no$, to address engineering's concern regardingthe storage, hers provided more than the storage for the 109 year eventand I guess in that aspect I'm satisf ied.
Bro$rn: Not as Iong as they're providing the adequate storage, no.
Emmings: I've got one more comment and that is on the beachlot thing.Irm familiar with this beachlot. I live on Lake Minne\"rashta and there isno way that you're going to convince me that thj.s isnrt an extension ofthe use, enlarging the use of that property. Not only that but I thinkit's a real awkward situation because I can see the people who are usedto using it and used to using it together, there,s going to be someresentment with 27 new families coming in who are eager to have access tothe Iake and a group of people who are used to using it together having awhole bunch of new people coming in to use it. I Eoo would encourage youto find out exacrly what your rights are for that. what documents thereare that establish it.
docks
that's
wrong .
and permits but we
what he's saying.
can't Iimit the
I think that I s
number of peopl-e.
probably right but
I think
if it feel s
Batzli 3 Because it is enlarging the use technj.cally.
not anything else on this, do you
Maybe not lega I I y.
irant to make a
Batzli: I move that the Planning Commission recommend approval of
Subdivision #88-21 as shown on the plat stamped "Received JuLy 22, 1988"subject to the following conditions. Conditions I through 9 as provided
by the staff with the change in condition 1. It reads, is there a changein the number i ng ?
Emmings: Block 3.
Batzli3 Okay. And I propose a conditjon 10 reading, subject to City
approval of language, the applicant shall provide restrictions on the
Block 3lots in order to maintain the ponding site contours and I thinkalso it should be noted that, is the plat that you have Larry stamped a
different date that shows the pond?
Bro'rvn: No, my revision was for the grading plan.
Conrad : I ' II second the motion.
BatzIi moved, Conrad seconded thaE the Planning Commission recommend
approval of Subdivision #88-21 as shown on the plat stamped "Received
Jtrly 22, 1988" subject to the following conditions:
1. Lots 1 through 5, Block 3 and Lot 8r Block 3 be adjusted to provide
90 feet of rridth at the street frontage.
Emmings:
motion?
)
4.
If there I s
3
The applicant will work with the Park and Recreation Coordinator to
provide one acre of park land along the southerly boundary of the
proper ty .
The applicant shall provide a soil borings report for each Iot and
along the location of the street prior to final plat approval -
The applicant shall provide an amended plan showing fire hydrants
located not further than 300 feet apart.
5 The applicant shall enter into a development
city with the necessary financiaL sureties to
installation of these improvements.
The applicant shall service this area by gravity
unless their engineers can demonstrate that this
be serv j.ced by gravj.ty sani tary sewer.
contract and provide the
guarantee the Proper
6 sani tary sewer
ent j re parcel cannot
Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1988 - Page 29
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 30
1 The applicant will provide the City with the
easements across this parcel to service thissanitary sewer unless otherwise demonstrated
necessary.
necessary utilityparcel by gravity
that a lift station is
8. The applicant shall obtain and comply $rith aII conditions of theWatershed District permi t.
9. The applicant's engineer shall provide the City with the necessarydocumentation to verify that the 1OO year storm event and e.ergencyoverfrow conditions for the proposed ponding site will not affect theadjacent properties.
]-g- subject to city approvar of language, the appricant sharl providerestrictions on the Brock 3 lots in order to maintain the pondingsite contours.
Alr voted in favor except Headra who opposed and the motion carried.
Emmings:
what they
Do you v,rant to briefly set out your concerns? I think we knoware.
Headla: what do you mean, briefly?
Emmings: Just give us a list of r^rhat your objections are.
Headla: The 1ot sizes are not consistent with the area to the southeast.The road going to the south should be a cul-de-sac or an easementeventually going through in case the road does go. ...I think thereshourd be a barrier so people don't drive onto ihe property to the south.r disagree, r don't think there shourd be any .".e 6f parkiano. r thinkMr- Johnson is correct there. rt's just too small for that area. rf youhave bigger lot sizes, then you wouldnr E need any parkland either
PUBLIC HEARING:
MINNEWASHTA MEADOIVS, LOCATED AT
ROAD, GARY CARLSON:
A. LAND USE PLAN AMENDMENT TO
THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF HWY. 7 AND CHURCH
CHANGE
MED I UMLOW DENSITY TO RES I DENT IAL
RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAM I LY.
B. REZONING FROM RSF, SINGLE
MEDIUM DENSITY RES I DENT IAt
Public Present:
Name
Gary Carl sonHarry Carlson
THE DESIGNATION FROM RES IDENTIAL
DENSITY ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF,
EAMILY RES IDENTIAL DISTRICT
D I STRICT.
Address
Applicant
6241 Church Road
TO R-8 , MIXED
Planning Comm j.ssion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 31
Barbara Dacy presented
Chairman Conrad called
HeadIa:
trees.
staff report.
public hearing to order.
6231
385r
Church
Church
Road
Ro ad
the
the
Gary Carlson: As you can see Irm quite anxious. I,ve been before you
and sat in on your meetings and I wish to thank you on behalf of the City
and on behalf of being involved as a resident for your time and for yourgreat considerations of all these proposals that come before you and Ifeel. that you do a very, very good job. I've got some gentlemen r,rho are
my associates who are quite qualified and they wiII be exptaining theproposal a littl,e bit better than Irm able to do but I do have a fewIittle pet things that I have put into this project that Irve gotten from
comments from the Planning Commission. By listening to exactl"y whatyourve said, has given me a couple things, more than a couple things inthere that I just want to poiot out because I'm proud of them and I $rantyou to know that your j.nput into the City is being heard. Just tointroduce myself a little bit, I live just outside on West 52nd in theCathcart home. It vras built in 1886 and have lived out here for 2gyears. My grandfather homesteaded a half mile from my present home and
my father was born out in that home so lrm the third generat.ion and thisproject is to benefit the fourth generation. I have a handicap daughter
and I donrt know if itrs covered too much in your project, it is
ment.ioned in my letter to you that two of the unj ts and possibly three
will be hand j.cap units. Some of the proposals that yourve considered inother apartments in other areas of the City, they say theyrre handicap
accessible. well, a person in a wheelchair and a van is up against a
curb stop... In my buildings, they drive, if you looked at the plan
thatts in here yourII see that they drive directly into their home, the
wheelchair exits the van and they can drj.ve straight into their living
f l-oor and have a two bedroom apartment. The plans are bej.ng checked by
courage Center and these wiII be provided in this development. Thatrs
kind of a pet project so it will give my daughter a lif etime income plus
housing that's really needed in this area of the City. The thing that's
in here for Dave, as you can see, these are native maple trees.
You like trees. I've seen your place and you have a lot of nice
Gary Carlson: And those are in there for Dave. Here's for Tim now.
This pond here. In the house plans, these units which are affordable
housing $rith no city subsidy, theylre affordable housing, this plan
that's in your book there shows, I know you had some subsidized housi.ng
in front of you and yourre trying to get them to make tbem more sound
proof. They didn't seem Eo be able to find the dollars alEhough the City
was subsidizing. The only noise cover between the units would be betr./een
the floors. I think you can see the ceiling joist and the floor joist are
separated by 5 L/2 inch air space. I've had them include in here, it
lists here, I also have sound insulation so there would be no attachment.
Merlyn Wanous
Ter r y and Dar^rn To I I
Planning Comm j. ss i on
September 7, 1988 -
Meeti ng
Page 32
Brad Sworem: Basicarry m here to say simirar things to what cary justdid. rn a nutsherl what he's saying is, this rand ii not iJearry suitedfor single famiry residentiar. To directry address your -qrestion orwhatrs the big need for a change. we're tiying to mixe-tn'e-rest possibreuse of the rand both for us and for the city. That,s the whore idea ofzoning- Because of church street being a col-lector road and some of the
The units do not attach of course on the walls and on the floors, therersthe joist system and the ceiling joists that are from tero separatesystems. so they should be realry nice units and as for Mr. Ladd conrad,I have a very competent staff to sell you this project. I have Bradsworen...from the engineering firm of Engerhardt a;d Associates r have asenior design engineer whots basically done my originar layout and hasworked on this layout so rrlr be here to answer any of your questions. rdo want to thank alr the neighbors. r guess r thought ierry, the Toll,shave left but r wanted to point out, in the letters here, tlre residencethat lies west of me, he owns everything buildable west of me has got aletter in support. Terry Toll and his wife are here. They also live$rest of the development. Theytre the next neighbors to th6 west.Therers a letter of support from a neighbor to the east that oerns thecorner, the other corner of TH z and church Road. The other neighborsaren't here. They haven, t written a letter but I know they may havecomments. r want to thank the neighbors for their support and theirunderstanding in looking at the project and m not just a deveroper thathey, listen let's make some rots so r can serl them. rrm trying io *uru-a development that wirr work. The rast thing r want to point out is, thereason Irm looking to fiII this with rental property ins-tead ofresidentiar properties is very nicery expraiied-by,-it,s in your forderhere from Mr. Crasrford, the District Engineer for the StateTransportation Department. His first comment, residential development isa very noi.se sensitive rand use. present noise revels along TH 7 exceedstate standards for residentiar deveropment. so basicarry ir r had ashadowmere or if r had a cedar, those three developments just south of meon Minne$rashta Parkwayl realry nice bedroom communities. rf r had a FoxRun or Covington or Hunter's Ridge, I wouldnr t be, because I Live tnere.m going to be looking at these. r rdourdn't want any deveropment thatdidnrt look single family in nature so that's r^rh y r,m bringin! in singrefamily level. I dontt think I r.rould fill, there are tr.ro oih"i ni"ebedroom communities opening up for single families that can afford tomove in- rhis will give the needed reitar housing for families thai theycan move into covingtons and the waterfords and the Hunter Ridges rvhenthey can afford it. This is right on TH Z so I guess going by what thestate, itrs not suitable for reiidential so we,16 not frop6singresidentiar. people rive here if they can...and .asy ic""ss to TH 7.Theyr re not- going to buj.td until all lhis buitds jn ind they say I justhave to be here. Then they might buy my residentiar lots =6 itis kind ofled me to this point. r own 7 .ther rentals in this area. rn fact, thisparty here has rented. from me for 13 years and this party here. Thishouse is going to be built on 13. This party here his .-"nteo from me for7 years. This one 5 years. Anyvray, they are really happy and maybe theywant to comment- - - r vrould thank you for your time. uy- ciriraren- ".n .roisee me on ChanneL 20 a",d if you have any questions, I'Ii b; glad toanswer them.
improvements, TH 7 and the Eire Station and the park, there is not anyproblem ,rith the chang j.ng neighborhood. I guess that's the concern ofsmaller lot sizes next to large lot sizes. This is, in effect anisolated project. It's ideally suited for this type of development. Thesecond thing that you have is there is no traffic problems because noneof the people who live in these units are going to be passing any otherresidentiar homes. They're not driving through any of those other areas.The major intent of all the zoning rules, the major intent of governmentsubdivision regulations are all being met by the project. We,ie askingfor the project basically because they need to be able to make a zoningchange like this in order to have this type of housing in chanhassen. rfyou dontt permit a change Iike this, youlie going to iave larger squarefoot lots. The units themselves are going to be more expensive but therents are going to be higher. There is nothing to speak of outside ofapartments or single family homes available for rent and that,s themarket that vJer re trying to get and that's the market that we're askingyou as the Planning Commission to be able to meet. Those are really ourcompelling reasons. There are some more comments that we have in theapplication and some of the comments of cary but thj.s zoning fits theproperty best. It probably should have been zoned Iike this originally.
Does that answer your guestion?
Conrad: Keep going.
Brad Sr.rorem: The rest of the stuff that I have to say is just bas j.cally
comments that are good reasons for the project. Number one, werrelooking at putting on 15,OOg sqvare foot lots, over/under two famiLy
homes which are obviously different than side by side. They look exactlylike a single family home. They give you the sideyard setbacks. Theygive you the large lots. They give you the rest of those zoning intentrules for maximum density per lot. If vJe were to go to a side by side ora side by side would be appropriate, we would think that the 2O,AAAsquare foot $rould be appropriate but the L5,0gO certainly does fit
because of the type of unit we have. We are obviously limi.ting the
amount that they can be rented for because over/under, as werreconstructing them, will only be tlro bedrooms. Again, werre trying to
segment a market that is not being hit in Chanhassen and vre feel, to alarge extent we need your assistance in being able to cover this. i^Jerve
worked hard at working with the neighbors. Obviously Gary's been in t.he
neighborhood for years and thatrs a big factor in the development.
...aII the people, some people may be here today and we do appreciatetheir support. One of the complex or problems that we have had is tryingto fit our proposal with the Cityrs zoning codes and to a degree it'sputting square peg into a round hoLe. We have a proposal for 36 lots and
one of the staffrs concern was we could turn arouod tomorrow and build a
bunch of apartment buildings. Werve asked how we can propose to changethat. I guess contract zoning or agreement, developer I s agreement or
addendum to the platting or anything like that is frowned upon because
it's contract zon j.ng. I guess the point that we have is, we feel tr.ro
th j.ngs. That in talking to staff prior, this is the best way toeffectuate the change. Two, with this change we can proceed wjth it thisyear. Staff had indicated some other alternatives including planned unitdevelopments. If we were to do that, that would kick it back to next
Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1988 - Page 33
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 34
year. But the basic concept is we,re trying to fit a project that makessense for us and makes sense to serve that rental market. The densityper acre is, I believe on the very lowest end of the medium developmentfor the most comprehensive plan so it's basically fitting aII of theCity's needs, if not necessarily the City's specific zoning rules andregulations at the present time. The proposal is going to-be to havefour family units on the south side. Staff has some concerns about thedriveway on Lot 16, which is the southeast corner. That certainly can bemodified and ask you to make any suggestions or comments on that. Weshould be able to satisfy any objections yourve got today. we r.rould liketo suggesting changes or proposals that you want. We would tike you tovote in favor of the zoning change so we can get to the City Counail so
vre can get moving on it and start construction still yet this fall and
maybe put some foundations in and proceed through the winter. Is thereanything else cary?
Harry Campbell: My name is Harry Campbell. I live on 624L Church Road.Irm against the rentat because I donrt knor{, what kind of people werregoing to get in there for rentals and what is going to do to my propertyright across the road from there. That,s the main thing I'm interelted-in. The kind of people he's going to rent to in there. If they're goingto have wild parties over there or hrhat, s going on over there. That's myconcern and why Irm against the renEa1 property in there.
Terry
there
Toll: My name is Terry Tol1,
68 units j.n this proposal?
3851 Church Road. First of all, was
Dacy: 36.
Terry Toll: Okay. I guess I'm kind of concerned about rentals too. Atfirst I agreed on this but I'm wondering about what kind of people aregoing to be there. people in and out. we really eron,t get io know themthat good. Then something else r was lrondering ibout is, smitrr Acres hasan easement to Minnetonka and it's onry a 50 foot easement. This is partof Smith Acres so I was wondering how that,s going to work out.
Enmings: Would you explain that. I didn't understand what you justsaid.
Terry Torl: Therers an easement to Lake Minnetonka for smith Acres.
Emmings: Oh, to Lake Minnetonka?
Terry ToII: Or Minnewashta, I,m sorry.
Headla: Itrs on the north side isn't it?
Terry ToI l : Yes.
Emmings: Could you show us on the map and what j.t has to
Dacy: What he's referring to is that Schmidt's Acre has abeachlot. It's not used extensivety but there is a record
do with this.
grandfathered
of a 50 foot
Planning Commission
September 7, 198 8 -
Meeting
Page 35
easement for homeowners of Schmidt's Acres.
Conrad: And where
thi.s parcel at all
is Schmidt I s Acres.
right?
Okay. So that should not affect
Dacy: This parcel is, I can't remember if itts Lot 4 or 5 or both. Thisis the Schmidt's Acre lot. The part to the north of the Schmidtrs AcreIot. Lots to the west of Schmidt's Acre lot and parcels down and acrossthe road. Right in here there's a 50 foot easement tnat was created many
moons ago. Very similiar to the Pleasant Acres situation. The samepolicies $rould apply. Our records what verify what existed as of theadoption date of the beachlot ordinance and any expansion as far asdocks, boats, moorings, etc. .
Conrad: But it still could be used?
Dacy: If they wanted to contest that further.
Terry ToIL: Then I was rrrondering, if they want to develop another
development, not Gary because he don't have land, off to the west,would that traffic aoing through have? We live right in here, is
vrhatr s this right here? Would that be a road that could be openedthe cartway?
Conrad: Yes.
where
there,
up to
Terry ToIl: Then vrith the people that are going to be
deveJ-opment, howrs that going to affect the park? Istoo many people for that park?
in
that
these hous i nggoing to be
Conrad: That's not our park.
they look at this development and park around it. WilI theyin lieu of?
BatzIi 3
collect
But
fees
Conrad: I rm
Batzl- i : But
Headla: Yes
sure they haven I t
they looked at it
they did.
look at thi. s?
previously under the old.
Batzli: So they're not going to put trails or anything around there? So
people would probably tend to congregate over...
Terry To11: Then I was also concerned about the value of our house.
will it go up or will it go down? The rental people usuaLly donrt take
care of their houses as well as people that own them because it's notsimply theirs. vler re concerned about the parties. Maybe four people
moving into, $rhat kind of cars are they going to be driving? So werre
concerned about that. At first I thought it was a good idea and we've
been thinking, talking to neighbors and r'm kind of against it.
Planning Commi s sion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 36
Merlyn wanous: My name is Merryn wanous and r rive at 6231 church Road.r guess in generar alr the objections that have been mentioned, r objectto also. In fact, it's going to be a long term development. AII thehouses out there are singre family residenti.ar. as you stated, shorewooddoes own. that park. -what is going to prevent shorewood from selling thatpark.if he does get development to some other deveroper? enotner concernof-mine is.if this project should fall through, if h; should decide tosell it, will someone, if he does get this R-g zooing, will they takeadvantage of this zoning and become apartment houses-or put som-ethingthatrs going to not be in confirmation with the rest of lne neighborfrood?He also mentioned that he has approvar from Mr. Kerber but he didn,tmention that Mr. Kerber has his property for sale. It is rentalproperty. It is all older housing out there but I guess, like Mr. Tollsays, Mr. McPherson does have a rittle acreage there. rt is row rand buta rot of development has gone into low rand io r guess we are concernedabout the neighborhood and r guess werre concerned about the influx ofpeople that are going to be there. we've been there for 2g years. weare used to the open land. r admit that and r woul.d like to see, we doapprove of these single family residentiar. r think that's a good idea!y! noy when you start bringing in,apartments and aII these otfrer peoplelike they did mention, a roi oi undeiirabre, the fair trouiing law ioe-snot permit him to decide who he's going to rent to. He has to rent towhoever comes to rent. so r guess tha['s one of our primary concerns.Thank you.
Terry To11: We do have two little kids and we,d like them to getfamilies that plan on sticking around. Maybe they wiII decicle toEhe area and move into a house they can afiord soireday. Usuallypeople are on the move. They donrt plan on sticking iround so Ithat vras kind of one of the concerns of ours. That we'd like topeople move and get to knor,, them a little biL.
to knor",
like
rental
guess
see
Erhart moved, Hnmings seconded to close the pubric hearing. Alr voted infavor and the motion carried. The public heiring was cloied.
Erhart: I. think a good place to start, do we have a City map, zoning mapsomeprace here? other than the one on the warr. Barbari, coula you-justwalk around this property and kind of tell. us what, I gr.i" what I,mdoing is asking, trying to go back and if you cout6 r"riina us of how wearrived at the zoning for that whore area up in the northwest corner ofChanhassen. Is it all RSF?
Dacy-: Yes. Maybe r can start krith those blanks first. The neighborhoodby the north side of Lake Minner^rashta and preasant Acres suraivi.5ion indthe scattered deveropments north of TH 7 in the church Road area, a rotof these areas were subdivided in the 50rs and 60.s and r think auringthe earry 80's when the.city was- looking at the first br.ush of the co;pPran, made a poricy decision to keep this area in a similiar rand usepattern. Then when we revised our ordinances, our zoning ordinance in1985 and 1987, then you mereJ,y appr-y the RSF District ov6r the rand usecategory that was established through the Comp plan. Beyond that, the
onLy site that has entertained the different land use is the TH 't/TH 4Lsite. Thatrs on the area west of TH 41.
Erhart: So the closest medium density is where? In this whole area.
Dacy: The closest medium density would be the area thatrs just west ofCity Hall here adjacent to do$rntown and is on the agenda later on.
Erhart: Why did l^re select that as medium density?
Dacy: The City wanted to create higher density projects adjacent to
downtown to create population and because of the access to service thosetransportation traffic. AIso, r,{e iranted a buffer beEween the industriatpark on the south side and vranted to provide areas for different stylesof housing. That was the big issue in the Lake Susan Hills west PUD last
sunmer was how much multiple family land should be provided so those were
the two primary areas during the Comp Plan review that we looked at forhigher densi ty.
Erhart: Do you think we're deficient in multiple family area now?
Dacy: Right now as zoned and planned for, vre've got a good mix as far
as, I think itrs 75? single family and 25? multiple family. Itrs apolicy decision that you have to make.
Erhart: Of t.he areas rde have medium zoned, medium density now, is any of
that being developed into multiple family housing?
Dacy: Outside of the application thatrs on tonight's agenda, thatrs
about it outside of the Jacobson toi{nhomes right next door.
Erhart: So therets adequate Iand that's accessible to sewer? We arentt
in any urgent need to rezone additional land?
Dacy: Thatr s a question that you have to answer.
Erhart: I know but you deal with it everyday.
Dacy: We have vacant land available at this point.
Erhart: But you donrt see any urgent need to add anything to it? Medium
density. I luess Irm not...iecommendations from the standPoint of
staff, therers no urgency to add to our inventory of med ium density.
Dacy: Urgency, no. We have adequate lands novr. Whether or not you want
more is. ..
RSF so again, the area to the
par k?
Erhart: More specifi.cally, ...it's
north, the City of Shorewood, that's
Dacy: Yes.
all
a
Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1988 - Page 37
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 38
Erhart: Make sure I get it correct this time sincealready. That's a park. The area to the northvresthomes. Immediate hrest is some !^retlands. what's onChurch Road?
I made one rni s takeis some single fami lythe east side of
Dacy: There are four houses. The Wanous,,Larsonrs house and the gentleman who lives
Erhart: And to the south is?
Dacy: There's a fire station and the...property and the Schmidt's.
Erhart: I guess my comment is, I've heard some reasons from adeveloper's standpoint hrhy he wourd rike to have this rezoned but rr havenrt heard so far, good arguments why we should rezone it fromstandpoint of city pranning. Maybe with further questions, r'rr seebut I donrt see it.
guess
theit
Emmings: r heard even Less than Tim did. r onry heard conclusions. rdidn't.hear any reasons. r heard people say thai this is the best zoningfor this piece of land but I didn't hear any reasons why it was. Ithought the original plan was very appropriate to the aiea and to therand. To have single family with some multiple, with some twin homesalong TH 7 made pretty good sense to me. r would be absolutely opposedto any R-8 in that area. That's stepping it up quite a few nolchei itseems to me in intensity and r donrt see any reason for that whatsoever.rt might be that ld be persuaded to do arr R-4. That's the only onethat r.courd even go to as a farrback position but basical-ry r think thatthe. oriEinal plan for single family homes with the tr.rins al6ng the
!iS!y"V was a good one and r don't see any reason to change ii. Thehandicap accessibility thing is very inteiesting to *e .n6 a veryattractive feature and r wourd hope that if theie's onry twin hoires alongTH 7, that vrould stilr be incorporated even if we dontt go along with th6zoning- one of the presenters brought out attention to this Departmentof. Transportation lett.er stating thai residenEiar development is verynoise sensitive rand use and th5 present noise level. ii6ng--rH 7 exceedstate standards for residentiar development. r guess r haie a questionfor Barb there. r take it that just because it 6xceeds the standardsdoesnrt mean that development is in anyway prevented?
Dacy: No.
Emmings: That paragraph goes on to say that we suggest that every efforthas been made in design of the development to ress6i the impact thismight have on it. r guess that's the berm and the trees. I don,t knor^,if thatrs doing enough and r particularry don,t know if it,s doing enoughin right of the next paragraph whicir -says that rH 7 is probably going towidened out and thar the lots pratted directly adjaceot shourd piooa6ry-be deeper than normar to make the prat .or" "-.pr[.ible to future prans.rrm concerned about that part along the highway. r remember that we wererelunctant at the time we approved the fir;t pii", -*"-uiieJ-a rot orquestions about why twin homes wourd be acceptabre in this area. Nowwerre being asked to go to something that would allo,o apartment
the Campbell's, Terry
immediately on the corner.
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 39
buildings. One of the reasons, I think that I was persuaded thatr.rould be alright here were some marketing concerns about gutting,having a transition. Not being able to seJ.l single famiJ-y homesthe highway. That plus the fact that there are already some t$rinto the vrest on TH 7 on the south side so I thought it seemed Iikepretty reasonable approach to the development of the land. I cangoing to R-8. Thatrs all Irve got.
it
sort of
al ong
homes
anot see
Ellson: Itrs such a drastic change from the last one. I guess I don,thave a whole lot of new things but I agree with MnDot that I don't thinkyourd do too well having single family homes against the highr^ray butagain, as Steve had said, that was sort of addiessed with the oiiginalstudy. I don't know, if the real reason is that he needs more rentalincome or rrhat have you, I really like the other one better. We sat downwith a land use pattarn and trie6 to figure out what to do and I hrasn'tthe one who did it but there must have been logic behind it and I haven'theard any reasons why it was illogical before. I think it looks logi.caland as I said before, if this gets done, then that's just opening thedoor for the next one to be changed as well without any good reason tochange it. I reaLly don't think it,s necessary. Maybe if I had seenthis first or something like that but I really Iike Lhe other one betterthan this one. Therers 36 homes or 36 families trorth on one cul-de-sac,thatrs an awful lot going in and out so I $rould vote against it.
Batzli: Again, I don't have a whole lot to add. My only conment is thatI think that the first plan demonstrated that the zoning was workable forthis area. I think it was a fairly good plan and I don,t thjnk rhattherers really been a need demonstrated or an incompatibility
demonstrated other than perhaps the one sentence out of the Department ofTransportation letter that something needs to be done about the noise butthere are other ways to handle that than to build fourplexes rather thanduplexes. I think if there was a real need to be creative, theappropriate way to handle it wouldn't necessarily be the R-8 in any eventbut might be PUD or some other veh j.cle. I'm against this.
Headla: Talking about 36 units here? We haven,t talked about parkland
but how many v'rere there, 27 on the previous one and we spent how manyminutes talking about parkland? I think we should talk about parkland if
we want Eo increase, putting in this type of density because we don't
have any parks out here. The closest one that the City put in is 5 or 7miles away.
Batzli: Therer s a park in Minnewashta Heights.
EIIson: I'm sure these people woul-d use the Shorewood park.
Headla: I like the first plan cary came up with. I thought that was, hereally worked with it and he was... I think it's still a workabte plan.
I Iike all the trees he has here but... I erant to st.ay with the original
pLan.
Conrad: i{hen we talk about land use plan, by the way.plan, when was the Iast time, and this shows Irm losing
Our land useit somehorr, vrhen
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 4g
did we update the Use PIan?
cur rently
itrs not
t ime
Right nov,
La nd
hle I reDacy:
Conrad:It I s there but
Dacy: Right. So the last
was last fall I believe.
Conrad: In the
have designated
fami Iy?
Dacy: Right.
in the process.
been approved ?
that r.re l ooked at the Land Use Chapter
proposed land use, that,s not had a public hearing, wethis as a greater intensity use than resj.dential single
Conrad: In the previous land use plan, it was similiar? We have notchanged it? rt seems to me that if the developer, and obviously he has aparcel to work with here and needs to do something but r guess it's stilrout of context here. we're rooking aE this particular paicel and r guessas other commissioners have said, I havenrt heard a compelling reason tochange land use. That's why r introduced our needs when we take a rookat land use. I think you have to relate to what we look at. That'stransition. Thatrs need. services. Fire services are taken care ofhere but shopping centers. consumer oriented things wetre concernedwith. You notice that we tend to cruster higher divelopment around thoseservices and thatrs srhat wetve been trying to ao. r think some of thethings ri.ke fire protection is taken clre-of. Transportation systemother than a terrificly long cul-de-sac wiEh a whole lot of people on it.In this design, that kind of bothers me but Irm not looking at yourdesign as much as rrm just looking at your conceptuar thinls. r thinkwerre missing some things that r rook for. r think you ar6 abutted upagainst some residential area and r don't know, r think we in chanhaslenhad planned on how we're going to use the rand or how the owner of theland to the east might want to subdivide but so far, in my mind r haven'tseen a major reason to say this is a great hi.gher density area. youhavenrt done it yet. The city hasnrt told me that we ne;d more highdensity units. The City is telling us we plan acceptably well. Itdoesnrt mean we're right. rt does mean that right now tirere, s a rever ofcomfort that we can satisfy the need. I would itick with, I'mcomfortable that we can put higher densi Ey on TH 7. r think that makessense. I think you tried to do that with your last plan. Irm notcomfortable at arl lrith the R-8 district. Not at arr. r think ih"." ."ybe something that I could look at in the R-4 but even then, I stilL havesome, R-4 which yourve already.got on part of your parcel . I'm just notsure what that gives you and rrm not sure what the -transition. i'm notsure if we'd have good transitions to the neighborhoods to the west. Tothe northhrest. To the east. r'm a rittte bi! uncomfortabre. Theopportunity that r see for you is taking this forth to the ci.ty counciland in their wisdom may see somethj.ng that we don,t. The otheropportunity that r see for you is to create a scenario for us as we hordpublic hearings in the future when werre tarking about compiehensivePlans and we rook at everything. Itrs rearry tough for us to take a lookat one parcer. rt's classic spot zoning. rt's classic take care of the
Planning Commission
September 7, 19 88 -
Meeting
Page 4I
Headla: We didn't talk at aII about theIake. Putting that many people on...beachlot or tbat right to the
Brad Sworem: Can I make a comment? A couple of things, I understandyour position but I'd like to at least address some of the concerns.First of aII, some of the neighbors had some concerns about lousyrenters. Werre not exactly looking at the low end rental scale.
Conrad: We're comfortable with that.
Brad Sworem: The second thing is, my involvement with cities and otherpeople, the initial zoning is kind of a broad brush. Say this whole sideof town is going to be single family. planning Commissions are here andCity Councj.ls are here to take a look at the specific projects and sayyes, I guess we didn't know how development was going to occur. Werregoing to take a look at a project here and there... Itrs my view thatzoning as it becomes a broad, super competling reasons for changingrarely ever exist. The idea is, does thi.s zoning change make sense forthis particular situation. The reason r^rhy we felt so was because a bunchof comments about TH 7, one of the things that people said about we tookcare of it with the boEtom 1ots, that's true and it isnrt. As soon asyou put twin homes in there, you may affect the values of the other lotsup there so the whole project is, the point js, it's isolated here. Itrsisolated by traffic patterns j.n part so that,s a compelling reason. It
may not be compeJ.ling to you but thatrs the point that I wanted to makewith you. Werve eliminated the traffic problems and some of those thingsthat make it a good idea. A big j.ssue, the Planning Commissionultimately and City Council gets to decide, do you want this type ofrental market in Chanhassen. you wil-I not have it if you require in yourhigh density zoning areas, 26,ggg square foot lots for twin homes. yourrents are 9oin9 to be $85S.00. Itrs going to be high end. Are you goingto put everybody into apartments? I just don't think a young family witha couple of kids happens to fit ther, you exclude them from the City of
developer because they have this vision of something. we need a broaderperspective and tonight in an hour, we donrt have that yet. I think youhave an alternative when we go through the public hearing process.
Whenever the Comprehensive plan .comes in front of the publ ic, that youpossibly create in area of sensitivity on the pranning- commission a-ndCity Council to do that. That's a long winded approa-h to saying Irm notsure the city needs higher density there right now and haven,L leenpersuaded and would vote against it. Both the Conprehensive plan
amendment as weII as zoning. Anything else?
Conrad: At thj.s point in time, I think we want to say in concept werrenot really, and maybe that does have some application, I donrt know. Irmsaying, do we want a higher density there? Does it make sense and that,swhat the developer is.asking us. Does it make sense to put more densityon that land because it fits and because the community needs it? Werre-realIy not getting into specifics in terms of design and streets andwhatever. Weire not there yet. I kind of want to keep it there unlessthat has an impact on the overall. Does that have an impact on higherdensity Dave? You might be able to create...
Planning Commission
Septenber 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 42
Chanhassen. That's one of the things that, at least so far as... Iunderstand where yourre coming from. I appreciate your time onconsidering this issue and recognize that everybody-seems to beunanimously opposed to the project. werd al-so like some input from youon what you would think wourd be the besE way to do it. weive presenteda proposal. The biggest opposition appears to be because it's R-g. Thereason why we went R-8 is because these lots on the north end are L5 10g6square feet and that's in order to put a terin home on Ls,ggg square feetwe had to be an R-8. Staff has indicated we could rezone to 2O,gqOsquare foot and still put it in there. we felt we addressed some ofthose other concerns. The same reasons for development concentrationsfor pranned unit developments, to put those twin homes on the south sideof TH 7 all enter into play here. fie would like some input from you inaddition to your probabre rejection of our proposal. rs a planned unitDevelopment something that you would look on this type of proposal?
Because we want to be bound by a limited number of units and vre donrtwant to,put up apartment buildings. ...square peg round hole problemwhere if we get up to this project size, the ciiyis fearfur that we can'tcontract zone or canrt enter into a development agreement and theAttorney says we canrt do it, shourd we back track and go into a prannedunit development to address those concerns or just don'f you like thiskind of concentration in this area?
Gary carrson: This is the originar proposal. These homes are 24 x 42.single family wirr be bigger. Not too many singre families build a 24 x42 home. These over/under fourplexes will have the exact same squarefootage as twin homes so basicalJ.y you're rooking at a singre tariirydevelopment. Werre not chaoging. we're not suyi.,g at whai point wL,vegot to have these. These neighbors wourd then be looking at; if we wentwith R-4, these neighbors would be rooking at the typicai twin home whichis double garages. Doubre utirity outleti. Double-driveerays. Doubreentrances. rf you like a twin home next to you, doubre driveways, doublegarages and doubre front doors, this doesnrt have any of that. This is asingle-double garage. The entrance is, if you lookei on the plancarefully, everyone comes in the same entrance and they have a twobedroom apartment.. Every one of these single famiry h6mes, if r serrsingle. fgTify, wi]-l have at least three bedrooms, maybe four bedrooms.rrm building a home with four bedrooms. Four bedrooms. Four bedrooms.This guy courd buird 3 bedrooms. this guy could build 5 bedrooms. Thisguy courd build whatever he wants. This is going to take this plot ofland under R-4 arlows 28 units. High densiti. ri* asking for 36. stillhigh density- No. No eray. r am v6ry row d6nsity. Thi; home right heieis the same as this home right here. rhis is arrlady buirt. trris is adevelopment . . . over/under duplex. This ferlow who had a concern about hisproperty varue, the fellow before him on the Gorf course Estates, ...theguy that rived there alr the ti.me he did, he offered it to me for 92 andsold it for 97. Every penny he vranted. Hers next to this rental.
Conrad: Let me interrupt. I think generalIy...
Gary Carlson: ...I just want to teIl you that if youbecause of the TH 7 noise, your City has these zoningpeople that have voiced recomnenda t j. ons , if I were to
see it working
things. A11 thesetell them, yes
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 43
have 64 units, they would go...so
I donrt r^rant to see 54 uni ts. IResidentiaI...
I want to
64 units.density.
fast.
vrant
They donrt wantthis development,
to see
1ow
Conrad: Itrs not true. Come on. Chanhassen really is a residentialcommunity. Werre here every two weeks and we listen to the neighbors,what they want and we kind of echo some of what the neighborhoods say.
There are very few neighbors that come into this chamber and say we wanthigher density. what we had granted to you last time, we gave you higherdensity because we understand where you are and you're sensitive to TH 7.
We granted that. You are not bringing in a low density. you are notbringing in a low density development here. I'm looking at the numbers,yourre not bringing in a low density so don,t give me that argument.
Yourre putting in more units on the property than what we originally wereIooking at but we felt comfortable $rith that. Now yourre putting in a
few more units. You're asking for zoning that gives you the capacity toput a Iot more units than this plan. We're not reacting to your ptantonight. We're reacting to a Comprehensive Plan and a Zoning Ordinance
amendment which you requested. We have to react to that. I donrt wantto react to trhat yourre really doing here. Youire askiog for zoning and
Comprehensive PIan amendments that give you that abilJty. Yourre askingfor that and thatrs what we have to react to and we did. Yourre askingus, rrrhat the community wants and werll kind of, and Irm speaking formyself and the Commissioners you can jump in any time. I donrt speak forthe balance of the group but we have not considered this area as a higherdensity area and you can see that on our Comprehensive P1an. You could
see it in vrhat wetre proposing to the community within months. Therejust hasnrt been expressed a oeed. There hasnrt been expressed a need
that vJe need more units, rental units like this in this economic categoryin that area. we haven't heard it yet. You're coming in and telling us
that you want to do it. You havenrt told us that there's a need for ityet.
Gary Carlson: we rented this one on a Sunday. I had 25 calls and I have
5 couples. Beautiful people. I thought to myself Gary, how can you
decide which one to rent to so I said, I just rented it and I picked oneof those 5. How many families can afford S6qg.go in rent and not...
Conrad : Then yourre going
dont that at all tonight.to have to present a need to us and you haven't
Gary Carlson: If you want to...
Conrad: I don't erant to interview them either. We donrt have that time.
That's not our job but you have to present that need and I think you have
an opportunity next week or in two weeks when you go to City Council and
you can present that need there and if Lhey feel comfortable with it, Ithink they can make that decision but you havenrt done that to me at
Ieast tonight. I understand economj.cs and I understand what it takes toput people in a particular deaL at a certain price but I haven't seen the
need and I havenr t heard the community say to me that we need more of
those units. I didn't hear the neighbors say that tonight either.
They're not violently objecting to this yet on the other hand they're not
Planning Commissi on
september 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 44
saying, that.s the greatest thing. I want it in ny neighborhood.I.didn't hear one person come in and say I want that here. If it's arittle bit higher density, and most residents donrt want a littre bithigher density. Then you put in renters in their neighborhood and that'swhy. we tend to cruster units rike this in different praces than we havedesignated here. But what r said is r think you havE opportunities topersuade us and I think we also said that maybe a little bit higher, Ithink in the past we granted a little bit higher densities and i.rl openit up for other comments here in terms of whit other commissioners fe;lis appropriate for this land. Steve?
Enmings: There are a whore bunch of other kind of comments that could bemade on this project I think and I tried to stay kind of broad andgeneral because r opposed it on a conceptuar idea. That it should go toR-8 just seems preposterous to me and r thought the original plan wis agood one but if ere were going to look at this plan, and this is a much
IingI .point,.yourve got aII these twin homes and yourre talking aboutfamilies moving in there. The rearity of talking about young iamiliesthat canrt yet afford to buy homes so they're riving in housing of thiskind, you've got a two car garage on each one of th6se twin homes andeach one of the families that rive in there are going to have tvro cars.They're not going to have one car because that,s also a modern reality sowerve got two cars in garages and where do the other two cars park?There are a rot of other, rrm not asking for any ansrrers but there are awhole lot of fine polnts of that nature. we're rooking at this on afiner revel that r think you r,rant to have addressed but r don't think wehave to spend the time rooking at the project at Ehat lever becausetherers no reason to change the zoning.
Conrad: Tim anything? AnnetEe, any additions that you can see? Brian?
Batzli: Just my earlier comment that if therethis area, I think yourd be looking at a moreir.
was a creative need
acceptable way to go
for
about
Conrad: If there was a creative need, and yousupport. hrhatrs our minimum for a pUD Barbaraa minimum acreage? Is our new ordinance going
feel 8 acres
acreage wi se?to have?
cou Id
Do we have
Dacy: No.
conrad: rtrs hard to be creative in a sma1l area rike lhis and designateit a PUD unless you've got some unique phsicar characteristic, righti
Dacy: The major advantage the pUD gives you is the ability to baseapprovar on a specific development. That's what the appr-icant issaying - r don't r{ant to buird 64 units. I hrant to buiid 36 unitshis request is t.hat we consider the puD as an option to buiid that
Gary carrson: r'rl drop these fours and make them... r read thathighway report and they said they want, see these fours come prettyto TH 7. I'd be willing to, thatrs why if you see a how, I'Il comewith a pUD. I,11 make ihese fours int6 twos.
andpIan.
Sta te
close
bac k
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 45
Dacy: Again, if the Commission realIy prefers the original plan that wasproposed, that type of direction is to be given to the applicant. If you
do not consider the entire piece as twin homes, then that should be said
now.
cary CarI son:
El l son : wi t.h
conrad: wou ld
AS A PUD?
This is the
extra People.
layout.
Extra cars.
anybody on the Planning Commission accept this coming back
Emmings: Not if there is a development this intense. I think that's the
message. Maybe werd look at it as a PUD but I think the message is thatthe level of intensity of the development as we originally saw it wethought was appropriate and we think this is too high. That's r./hatI think. I don't care if you call it a PUD or a zi.nger. I'm going to beagainst it if the intensity is this hi.gh.
Gary Carlson: I r^rould drop the units. . .
811son: Maybe thatrs an idea vrith the City CounciJ..
Conrad:
Anythi ng
Erhart moved,
deny Land Usethe following
ElIson seconded that
PIan Amendment #88-6findings:
Commission recommend
Request #88-l based
Yes, and I think you should be talking to city Council too.else? Is there a motion?
Erhart: I move that we recommend denial of Land Use Plan Amendment
Request #88-6 and Rezoning Request *88-1 based on the findings that the
density permitted in the medium density resident ial category and the R-8
zoning district would permit a land use pattern which is more intense inscale and character than the existing land use pattern.
EIIson: I'1I second it.
the
and
PIannj.ng
Re zon i ng
to
on
I The density permitted in t.he medium density
the R-8 zoning district would permit a land
is more intense in scale and character thanpattern.
residential category and
use pattern which j.s more
the existing land use
A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
Ellson: You did a good sell job on the last one and you were behind itjust as much as you are now. AII of a sudden you donrt like your lastone because aII loved it and we still do-
Planning Comm j.ssion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 46
PRELTMTNARY PLAT To sUBDrvrDE 46,709 SQUARE EEET INTO 2 STNGLE FAPITLY
LOTS OE 24,3AA AND 22,409 ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLEFAMILY AND LOCATED ON LONE CEDAR CIRCLE BETWEEN LAKE MINNEWASHTA AND HWY.5, RALPH KANT.
Barbara Dacy and
Chairman Conrad
Larry
caIIed
Brown presented the staff report.
the public hearing to order.
Ralph Kant: Irm Ralph Kant at the residence, 3g2A Lone Cedar. I guessthe only comment I have is that I have been taking care of this la;d,this 60 foot piece, cutting the grass and so on, ior 14 years so now Irmjust asking the City to consider vacating the land. I don't, in myconversations with staff and so on, there would be no plan to put I roadin there. In talking with the neighbor to the east, he woutd like tohave an easement so he can get onto Lone cedar across that property and rhave no argument with that. That,s the $ray it would be devalobed. Thereis the driveway from that property onto Lone Cedar and any easement,roadr^ray would utilize that same access onto Lone cedar. inat's arreadyin ex i stence .
Enming s moved, Ellson secondedfavor and the motion carried.
to close the public hearing. A11 voted in
The public hearing was closed.
Head 1a :
staffrs
Batzli:
Ellson:
I think the whole use is appropriate and I agree with therecommendation.
I donrt have any questions.
Looks clean.
Enmings: Just a key point. Number 2, you $rantof dock and removal of lakeshore vegetatlon toI want that just to say that that plan comes ininstallation or removal because otherwise it,sother order. That,s aII I,ve got.
Erhart: I donrt have any coru[ents.
to plan for installationCity Staff for approval .before there I s anygoing to be done in the
ftnmings moved, Erhart seconded that the planning Commissionapproval of Subd j.vision #88-3 as shown on the piat stampedAugust 15, 1988" subject to the following conditions: -
1. The proposed street vacation must be approved byvrith each lot ma j.ntaining at least 2{l ,OOO squarEstreet frontage.
the Cityfeet and
Counci I90 feet of
2 A plan for the installation
vegetation must be subm j. ttedinstallation or removal.
dock and removal of any lakeshorecity staff for approval prior to any
of a
to
r ec ommendrrReceived
Planning Comrnission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 47
3. The
for
pla t
applicant shaJ- 1
Lot 1, Block I
rev iew.
submit plans for the construction of the drivewayto the City Engineer for approval prj.or to final
4. The applicant shall obtain written approval by the
Department of Transportation for the constructiononto Lone Cedar Road prior to final plat review.
Minnesota
of the d r i veway
5 The proposed driveway for Lot 1, Block 1 shall maintain a minimum
separation of IAO feet from State Highway 5.
6.A 15 foot utility and drainage easement shall
inch diameter watermain for the entire length
be vacated.
be
of
centered over the 12the right-of-way to
A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.
DERAND CORPORATION, LOCATED ON COUNTY ROAD ].7, APPROXIMATELY L/2 MILE
NORTH OE HWY. 5, OAK VIEW APARTMENTS:
A.PRELIMINARY PLAT TO
OUTLOTS ON PROPERTY
SUBDIVIDE 18.9 ACRES INTO FOUR R-I2 LOTS AND 2
ZONED R-I2, HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
PER},IIT TO DIRECT STOR},I WATER INTO A CLASS BBWETLAND ALTERAT ION
WETLAND.
C. SITE PLAN REVIEW POR 136
Barbara Dacy and Larry Brown
UNITS .
the staff report.
A PARTMENT
presented
Ellson: What did you say
right-out or you won't be
on Powers BIvd., therers going to be a right- j.n
able to take a Left in?
Brown: Correct.
Ellson: Whatts going to prevent you from doing that is what I'm
wonder ing?
Brovrn: They would have to create some sort of triangular island out here
that would prevent that type of movement. The probl,em with those' we
have a Q-Superette that's out there. It has a right-inr/right-out island
and they do get abused and the Countyr s not real favorable on that type
of situation. I know that the applicants are here tonight and wish to
get any suggestions or comments from the Planning Commission. so they can
proceed thiough the process again at a later date. Theyrve indicated to
me that theyrd like to see this done.
Conrad: In terms of traffic analys is right nov, though Larry, therers
nothing that we can react to.
Planning Commiss i on
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 48
Broern: r'm afraid not. BRw is still tooking at this scenario. There,sone option of trying to shorten this island up but right now it's justnot looking favorable because we need the stackjng distance for reit handturning movements onto west 78th street. pushing the island furthernorth, in talking with the County, theyrre not real sure that that'sgoing to eliminate the u turn situatio; so those people have a choice uphere as to going into Excersior in a straight line or doubring back to !othrough downtown.
Conrad: The island's purpose again is what?
Brown: Itrs going into a four lane roadStreet and then creating the guidance andthat down int.o two lane again.
between TH 5 and west 78ththe channelization is to taper
Emmings:
wher e?
The project that they're proposing to build fits on this thing
Does it have to go all the way to powers? Could it just be
Broern: Itrs in this area right here.
Erharts And wherers the wetland?
BEown: Right through here. The right-of-way that they have proposedrines up, it wirr be exact to the west virrage Townhomi center rine andtheir intent is, with the tax increment dist;ict, hopefulry the city cando the feasibility to get that road pushed through.
Ellson:
end i ng?
Brown: Wj.th this type of density, if we wereintersection out here, maybe we could considertype of density, it seems reasonable with ourand push this road through. It fits our Compit. Letrs get it...can support the density.
to get
that.
pIans,
PIan.
a ful1 movement
However, with th j.s
in the past to try
Theytre propos i ng
Dacy: If we can't get the access onto powers, it makesproperty to the north much more important. That was aapproval on the original plat that there be connection.two fulI movement intersections accessing that area.
the access to thecondition of
The City wants
Brown: Yourve all seen my note regarding the tabring. r rerayed that tothe applicant. He still wishes to be heird by the C6mmission.
conrad: r think what we'll do is, r don.t think we need to trord a publichearing at this juncture but r think we wourd certainry let the app-ricantspeak to us and if we can provide any kind of comnents that we may haveon the project in general . Is that icceptable? That we not hold apublic hear ing?
Ed Flanner: rrm Ed Flanner. r live and work in savannah, Georgia. r amthe principte with DeRand, which is next door to Arlington, vi.6ini".- --"
There are several comments that have been made by...in Minneapolis that
Planning Commission
September 7, I98 8 -
Meeting
Page 49
have been working with the staff here and I feel like everything isprogressj.ng rather effectively. I do have a specific suggestion relatingto the situation with the road which seems to be difficult to resolve atthis time. It was mentioned, the entrance is here. Therers an existingapartment complex here and one under construction here. If we could justbuild this part, erhich is approximately one-quarter of the land, we c6uldget the people in and out. ?his is 56 units. ftrs not a dramaticincrease in the traffic and that would give time to resolve the j.ssue ofgetting this here. Would that be acceptable to you?
Again,
on the
Dacy :parcel it reaIIy dependsnorth. We asked
Ed Flanner: You asked forthat would not be part of
on
for
our review of that access to thethat 50 foot easement.
a 5g foot easement. That area is in here andwhatrs to be approved at this time.
Dacy: If it came dor.rn to that we couldnrt get that access onto powers,
$re would have to be assured that $re could get a second vray out knowi.ngthat the rest of the parcel would develop. We want to make sure that theplan that you had submitted for a 50 foot easement works. I donrt knowif we can really react and say yes or no. A phased plan could be anoption if we can get another $ray out.
Conrad: From our standpoint, vre !.rant you to be working with our staff.If there is a phased approach to this, we would certainly entertain thatbut again, they have to be comfortable that accesses are there.
Ed Flanner: Thatrs fine and I coul-d include that, my question to seerrhat, the issue she had raised was, it has been proposed to be provide
access from thj.s piece of property onto this road. I would prefer to usea reservation of an easement because I think if a personrs usi.ng thatroad... Thatrs a semantic point but I feel- like we could then reservethis piece and connecE it to his which would also be reserved. we
obviously have got to do some molding of the entrance down here but atthis point it seems Iike it's a very difficult situation. Obviously
something with more long term, we can resolve either by improving thisintersection or by improving changing this. The point is this is
extremely loe', through here and would take a lot of fill. It may be worth
doing that in order to not have the right-in,/right-out intersection. Myrequest is that you consider phasing. My further request is that we dealwith the specific points since I'm here, relating to the recommendations
of the...and I might ask that you do that.
Conrad: We can do that. Dave, in terms of what you see, do you
understand vrhat werre going to do? we're just going to go through what
we would have gone through if this had been a public hearing. r thj.nk
they would like to know what concerns we have. Do we agree with thestaff comments? Do we disagree so they can go back and while we're
resolving the sequence of phased in approach or highway access, they canalso be vrorking on oEher issues at the same time. What do you see?
Headla: Just the phasing bothers me lvhen you design on the spot. Can we
do it here?
Planning Comm i ss j. on
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 50
Conrad: We can't do it, no. Their job, staffrs job and the developer,sjob is to go back and the developer has got to show how it would bephased. staff would have to agree with the traffic patterns during thosedeveropment stages and access and wourd have to be comfortabre thai thefuture is taken care of but werre not going to do that tonight. we can'tdo that. Anything else though in the entire report?
Headla: I didn't go through this one in that much detail.this until sometime Monday. I got through the other stuffPleasant Acres took a tremendous amount of time so, to bego through this one.
Bro$rn: The developer, and I apologize for not bringing this up in mypresentation, the developer has a concern as was laid out in theirreport, that they are not meeting the green space requirements. Theimpervious area versus the green space. To meet tha€, they, re proposingthat the public roadway be reduced to a 22 foot width roadiay. -st;ff i;recommending that although they are private roadways, they retain a 2gfoot width. That that standard has been set aside for this type ofdensity and that it not be reduced. That wirr mean that if we stick tothat standard, even though itrs a private roadway, that they go back andadjust their lot lines to meet that Ereen space area.
Ed Flanner: i{e would like to withdraw that problem.
Conrad: Let us just give you some direction. I'Iljump back in here. Brian, again going through this.
Batzl,i: Do we just want to talk about the site plantalk about aI1 three or what?
conrad: rrd tark about anything because we,re not, any inkling that wecan give them at this point in time is going to be beneficial. They,regoing to know where werre coming from when it comes back to us and allthese traffic patterns are resolved.
I didnr tin detail.fair, I did
get
not
give you a chance to
Anyth i. ng ?
or do we want to
Batzli: The first thing that rearly caught my eye, because r usuaLryrook at it first, is the wetland arteration permit. rt i ndicates tiatthe appLicant isn't going to make any physic;l alterations to thesretland. Then. we put all these conditions on it that we're going toprovide a detaired plan and free form and sharl embankments. Does itmeet these r ight now? I.Iha t' s goi ng on here?
Dacy: The reason for the alteration permit is that the vJetland wilr bereceiving the storm water run-off from the area. ALthough they are notproposing to physicarly art.er it, there will be additionil warer cominointo the wetland- what they'!re saying is thar if it,s going io-uJ-;;;inqas a storm water pond, then it shourd conform to our typicar conditionsfor Fish and Wildlife pond.
Batzli: Do we knov, that it conforms or doesn't conform?
Planning Commj ssion
September 7, I98 8 -
l4ee t i ng
Page 5l
Dacy: At this point, no.
and so on and veri-ficationheld within that area.
That's why we're asking for the calculat j.ons
to determine exactly how much water would be
Batzli.: WhaE about aII thegrading plan on thi s?
slopes and things like that? Do we have a
Brown: The slopes within the wetland?
Batzli: They're not going to grade it. Does that area already meet ourwetland requirements or the DNRis or whoever it is?
Dacy: It's a lot steeper than the slopes identified in those standard oconditions. Nonetheless, it stitl provides good area for habitat.
Dacy: To be honest, Ia good ans$/er.
can't answer that at thj.s time unless Larry's got
Brown: One of the things that's pending. Normally you see on-siteponding to maintain the predevelopment run-off rate. U.S. Eish andWildlife came back and stated that this r^retland could use additionalflow. We went back to the Watershed District. The Watershed Districtsays, as Iong as they address water quality issues, that the flow going
in there is clean, fine. As long as it meets our hletland Alterat ionPermit., let it go to the eretland on the recommendations of the U.S. Fish
and wildlife. These volumes of fLow to determine srhether it's going to
have too great an impact or not enough inpact to help the wetland out,are analyzed through the plans and specs. The actual number crunching
volumes. Thatrs why the issues is kind of held up right now.
Batzli: Two questions still remain though. One is, it's an exjsting
Class B rretland. Is the holding pond something different than the
r.retI and?
Brown: No, it is not.
Batzli: okay, so the basin shall have shallow embankments wjth sJ,opes of
xyz. The basin will have uneven rolling bottom contours. Is it thecurrent rretland? Does it meet these so they're not going to go in there
and dredge this thing? Thatrs what I'm asking because I don't want themto do that. They're going to be r^rrecking a wetland to build a wetland.
Brown: The plan that they have now,There's no proposed changes.no.
theseBatzli: Would we require them under conditions to change it?
Dacy: Werll take a closer look at that. That's a good point because
can change that the slopes are steeper and werre going to have to take
we
a
Batzli: Are we going to be requiring that the applicant make adjustmentsto the existing wetland in order to make it conform to a wetland? Isthat what we're doing? That rrras my real question but I wanted to see if
we had an answer.
Planning Commission
September 7, 198 8 -
Meet i ng
Page 52
lve concerned about the quality of Ehe hrater entering the
thought it
closer look.
Conrad: weren I t
wetland on this?
Brown: Correct -
Conrad: And therefore you were recommending creating a pond?
Dacy:Upstream.
Ups t r eam
That I s a
Conrad:and you just said...
Batzl i :fi l tration area .
Conrad: You just said that the pond was in the wetland but Iwas upstream which would mean that it rrrasnrt in the wetland.
Brown: They vrill be using the wetland, they wiII be directing theirstorm rrrater run-off to the wetland. period. Exclamation point. Theremay be either a structure or a mini-pond, not Iike what yo-u, re used toseeing, as far as to address the water quality. that dols not addressthe storm water retention because they are aclualry adding water to thewetrand. They are not going in and creating at this time a separate pondwithin the wetland area. Theyrre just directing that flow to thewetland.
conrad: r liked it before you gave me the answer Larry. r think it'srear important, and being from out of town and maybe n6t totarly familiarwith our ordinance, wetre real concerned about weilands here. rt's realimportant that the quarity be maintained. rrm trusting staff is terlingyou $rhat our standards are and we have a.lot of other agencies jumpinginto the thing but as rong as wetre getting agreement. r read lnii aiwerre trying to make sure that the i.ncreased run-off is as clean goinginto that wetland as possibre. Now all of a sudden yourre ielrin{ me-everything is being dumped in there and we haven't d6ne it so r':n goingto end my comment by saying werre real concerned about the quality ofwater going in there. r trust you can work with staff and iesoLve thei ssue .
John Duffy: r think there's been a rittre bit lost in here. I.Ihat we areputting in, we are not affecting the wetlands at all. werre not doingany work there. we're dumping only crean rain water in there which wilralready be. treated before it goes in at a minimal frow rate. There,snothing going into this wetraids except srow moving, t."itea water that9!fs. in. there. The plan shows a disipation struct;re on our propertywhich the design wilL be approved from the watershed, which contrors theflow rate, sedimentation and alr that. From there ii goes into thewetrands- There's no need for a pond at all. If you iead through yourreport there, they question who's goi.ng to maintain this disipatlon'structure- Therefore, the staff is recommending putting a pond on ourproperty that r.rould control the sedimentation and then f rord into thewetlands - we stilr feer the disipation structure is the right way to go.
Conrad: Steve. Anything that thewhile theyrre solving the traffic.developer should be working on for you
Emmings: I see therers one garage space for each unit and I wonder whatpeople do when they have more than one car and I hronder if parking isadequate for any people who have parties and have people over. I didn'tIook very hard at this plan, in fact I didn't read it to be perfectlyhonest because it looked Iike it was being tabled.
Dacy: Theyr re already exceeding parking requirements.
Emmings: That's a different issue. We get inEo that aII the time.
Dacy: And additional guest parking.
Emmings: When a plan comes in,Iooking very closely at because
two cars. A lot of people have
there I s some reasonable parking
that's something that I'm going to beI think most people, a lot of people havepeople over and I want to be sure thatfor everyone.
to
sa ys
John Duffy: It does t$ro things. Because of the topography, the velocityof water coming down exceeds $rhat can go into a hretlands area so we builta disipation structure which is really a series of concrete baffles thatslords the hrater down, Then when you slow it dor,rn, any particulates inthe water will drop out and they fall into this basin that we're
building. From there, the clean water f loers into the r.retlands.
Erhart: When does it fill up? The sedimentation.
John Duffy: Actually Ehatrs the series of calculations that will go
the watershed and they $ronr ! review it until the Planning Commission
okay, go ahead.
Erhart: When it does fill up, you have some rray to clean it?
John Duffy: Yes, it eventually fi IIs up
that t s r^rhy the staf f was saying 1 theyt reclean it so in lieu of Ehat, Ehey would
somebody has to clean it
sure if somebodyt s going
a pond built with certain
and
notlike
and
to
Planning Commission Meeting
September 7, 1988 - page 53
we're going to have somebody on-site, Iiving there fulI time that wiIImaintain that and lver lI put that in the development agreement.
Batzli: Therers an indication on the site plan that therer s going to bea storm sewe! layout. I assume that $rhen we resolve this whole thingabout hohr much water wetre dumping in there, that's going to becontrolled and the storm se$rer takes off additional? That $ras my majorquestion.
Conrad: Annette, what guiding words do you have?
El1son: Pass.
Erhart: What's a disipation structure? How does that work?
slopes like you were discussing there. Werre saying
development agreement, we'II agree to clean it. Ittime of the day or night.
thaE in the
can be inspected any
Erhart: Do you think it,s less expensive to put this structure in?
John Duffy: No, actually the structure is more expensive but it's goingto be required anyway because of the high velocity of water. yourre
dropping about 30 feet there so werre going to have to build that anyway.
We might as well use it for sedimentation collection also.
Batzli: Is there going to be oil run-off off of imperv i ous sur face?
John Duffy: Therers undoubtedly going to beare weirs built into this structure that willdesign has to be approved by the watershed.
Dacy :
trail
side
land .
Erhar t :park and
as welI.
some oiI run-of f
skim the oils.
so thereAgain, that
Erhart: Have you gotten far enough here that you,ve got trails andstuff? Are these sidehralks to dovrntown and so forth in the plan?
John Duffy: We asked that this go to the park plans and they say, nothatrs something that's handled separately. Werve got the space for it
and hrer11 certainly agree to anything the park plan wants.
Erhart: This is just a preliminary review isn't it?
Yes, and Ehe Park and Rec Commission recomlended constructing aalong West Village Road and a 2g foot trail easement along the eastof Por,rers Blvd. and to accept park dedication fees in lieu of park
Erhart: Remind me again here. what are these three squares here. l,rhatdoes this designate?
Dacy: Potential bui Iding space.
houses or apartments?Erhart: For single family
Dacy: Apartments.
It rdould just seem to me thata hretlands area and providing thi s area as somewhat
around that would make
using
trail of a
sense
John Duffy: Irm going to speak for Ed, some of that land could bedonated in lieu of the park dedication fee. I think that'd be okay.
Enmings: I just want to ask. On that street problem. Itlanes from TH 5 to West 78th Street and then yourve got thethe island. Why couldn't you just put the island up on thethe road? They want to put it out and continue the 4 lanesstreet. Do you understand what I'm saying?
comes from 4problem wi thother side ofup to your
Planning Commissj.on Meeting
September 7, 1988 - Page 54
Planning Commission
September 7, 198I -
Meeting
Page 55
quite a L ist of reasons. Someof fact, as to hrhy that islandreal familiar with the area...
Brown: There'sin, as a ma ttervras. If you I re
of them are still
has ended ex ac tly
com i ng
where it
Emming: That's something, when I look at it, it looks to mewould be way to get two full intersections in there and stillbut just a little further north back to two Lanes. If thatrsfine. If it hasnrt been considered, then take a look at it.
li ke that
reduce it
r id iculous ,
Conrad: My only comments are really consistent with staff report.
Maximum 354 lot coverage. That's got to be. I don't care how you do itand I wasntt going to let you off by reducing road sizes either. I thinkyourve got to come up with the 358 someway and if you do, it will sailthrough. We talked about the wetlands. you hear our point on thewetlands. Donrt need to belabor that point. The 25 foot frontyardsetback, yourve got to meet that. Those are just some absolutes that wejust don't slack off of at all. Anything else?
Ed Elanner: May I interject one other issue? That is the handicap. We
have this symmetrical building...8 units. If I expand this area,particularly with the handicap having a 12 foot space, $rhat I'd like todo is put 2 handicap units per building so that I would have a balance inthe way the building is built. The report asks that we mix them andspread them throughout the project. I feel...for the maximum 2 handicapunits in the building.
EIIson: What riras your reason for that?
Ed Flanner: Itrs a design use.
EIIson: I understand that but what was her
Dacy: Irm not sure and IrIl work with the
reasonj.ng
appl i cant
for the opposite?
on i.t.
Headla moved, Batzli seconded to table action on the preliminary plat,
wetland alteration permit and site plan reviev, for the DeRand
Corporation. AII voted j.n favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND SECTION 2g-8I4 TO PERMIT DAY CARE
CENTERS IN A FREE STANDING BUILDING AS A CONDITIONAL USE ON PROPERTY
ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK DISTRICT.
PubL ic Present :
Name Add res s
Appl icantRoman RooS
Jerome Car l son
Barbara Dacy waived the staff report due to the hour of the meeting.
Planning Commission
September 7, L988 -
Mee ti ng
Page 55
Chairman Conrad called the public hearing to order.
Batzli moved, Headla seconded to close the public hearing. AIl votedfavor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Ellson: The only thing I wondered is, by doing this, do they havethat whoever,s using this building is the only one who can use thatcare or then does it fal,I into, Iike any other day care, r.rhether Ithere or not, I can use that day care? Does it mike that any morethat whoever's in the industrial office park is limited to it? Areany restrictions on it to people from the outside?
1n
a rule
day
workstrict
there
BiII Boyt: It $rould seem to me that yourre going to pass this ontoCouncil r.rith no comment virtually. This is going to be a difficultissue. r would rike you to think about, beciuse-many of you are parents,what we think the issues are so you could at least lay out r.rhat thecouncil people should be_ thinking about. one that jumps immediatery tomy mind is that we have intentionally kept them out of the office pirkpreviously. There are some good reasons for why it would be nice to haveghild.care very close to where a person is working. There are somedetlnrte drawbacks r think to having child care in an inclustrial officegg.k. Ird just J-ike you to, if you,ve thought about any of the issues,
1I V9u coutd just identify whar you. think the issues ar6, it might helpthe Ievel of the discussion when- this gets to City Council.
Erhart: What do you think the drawbacks are BitI?
Dacy: I asked the City Attorney that question and the City would not beable to go that far in how exactly who,s children the day care centercould... As a free standing use, itrs up to them.
Batzli: I move that the planning Commission approves Zoning OrdinanceAnendment Request #88-15 to amend Sectj.on 2O-BL4 as follows: (13) StateLicensed Day care centers. And additionarly to add section 2o-2g2, stateLicensed Day care centers as provided in the staff Report, conditions l,2, 3 or whatever those are.
Erhart: Second.
ones that would beI understand it.
basi s. If you rdantjust added, we
BiIl Boyt: I think it depends on what they,re next to I suppose butletrs suppose that werve got, as it turns out, they're next to the mini-storage area- Nohr we'!re going to have traffic potantiarly alr day long.Basicalry unsupervised. Do we run any safety risks by puiting one in inindustrial, office park? Do we have .ny con=iderationi -for should it beany different if itrs in an industrial office park than if it,s do$rnto$rnor if it's somewhere erse? r don't know. r haven,t really thought aboutthis issues other than just r know it's not going to be a iimpte yes orno kind of discussion when it gets voted on.
Batzli: I think all the concerns that you raise areaddressed. Itrs being added as a conditional Llse, asThaErs going to have to be revievred on a site by siteus to adopt standards, further standards than erhat we
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 57
could consider that. I don I t knorrr.
Brian
Thatrs
but I
a good
wasn I t
po int .
hearing anything thatBilI Boyt: I don't knov, either
was going to be real helpful.
EIlson:
this is
Emmings: I don't think so. Thepeople need day care and I think
have it by where they work.
As long as itrs a conditional use, it means $re get to say, no!,by a mini-storage, therefore we,re adding some stuff.
Emnings: I think r.rhat you're hearing is we all think it's a good idea.
Conrad: We aII thought it was a good idea when it r.ras in a building andthe building that would service the employees of that building. Werrelumping these two together but the point that BiIl brings up is probablypretty valid. A11 of a sudden there's a free standing bui).ding. We noIonger have the same rules. It is now not necessarily functioning forthat one company which we were all really comfortabLe with with InsEant
Webb before because again, it wasn't a profit motive. It was a servj.cemotive to the employees. Now we've got a different situation.
reason I donrt think so is that I thinkit's important. I think it's nice to
Conrad: But you r"rouldnrt necessarily put it in an industrial?
Enmings: I would put it there and frankly, unless I erorked there, I
r4rouldntt want to take my kid down into that probably either. I thinkit's going to primarily be used by those people dorrn there and if otherpeople want to bring there children there, I donrt care. It seems to methe important thing is that day care is available for people who need it
and where it is, if people don't like it dorrn there, then they can taketheir kid someplace else. That's almost a market factor.
Conrad: Your industr ia I garks
for pedestrians and whatever sogoing out and playing?
typically, theyrre maybe not designed
don't feel any sensitivity to kids
are
you
Emmings: But they're going to have to provide a place for the kids to go
out and play and that may be a little difficult for them jn the
industrial park than some other setting. That's why I think as a matter
of fact, the People who are going to hrant to use thj.s thj ng in theindustrial park are peopte who are going to be working there and are
going to be handy to it. I donrt thj.nk anyoners going to chose that
location.
Conrad:
Thoug ht
Are we comfortable vrerve thought about this first item enough?
about the situation? Steve has.
Erhart:
overall
There is requ i. rements
requ i rements .
for outdoor pl-ay area and thatrs in the
ElIson: The drop off point,
you're dropping off your kj.d
usually means a
road that t s got
separate dr i veway
traffic Aoing back
that
ona
SO
and
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 58
f orth.
Dacy: As a free standing facility, there can be more
address those separation issues and safety issues. Ibe more of a problem on the next item as part of theoffice building where you have to go back and reviewreconfigure existing situations.
flexibility tothink itts going toa mul ti -tenantparking areas and
Conrad: Everybody comfortable werve done our homework on this first one?
Jerone Carlson: Irm Jerome Carlson, the CEO of the three companies. WerdIike to proceed with this project. ...my comments as far as it relatesto traffic, is that in our plan wiII be reviewed whether we want to putit into the Instant Webb buiLding or not, I can assure that one of thetwo primary factors...had to do with this very same issue. The corner ofthat building where we were going to put this day care was where all ofour heavy trucks entered the premises to go around to the back to unloadand then when they exit, they come right back around the same corner andthis caused a Iot of concern on my part and on the part of... I{e didnrtfeel it was somethj.ng we couldnrt manage. We planned to put up theappropriate security fence... The other reason that we chose not to usethe Instant Webb site is because the space requirements that we foundourselves having as we do continue to groer. We then chose to a siteclose by, off-site. With aII due respect r I think you wiII find that thesafety standards of that particular site is very isolated. As far as themonitoring of traffic, there is no traffic. Itls a dead end and it is, Ithink appropriate from a traffic standpoint... Rerative to the questionof. whether we are private or public as far as the personneJ- that r^rould beusing this location. Our intent remains to provide a service for ouremployee group. The surveys that we took clearry indicate that what {^reare intending to do is in rine with the survey needs. Eor some reasonthat facility does not attract from the employee base, we hrourd certainlythen in order to operate it on a break even basis, which is real,ly arl w-ewant, we $/ould then want to reach out to the...public. But that is notthe objective here. The objective is to provide quarity, cost...day carefor our employees. That's not changing.
Roman Roosl ...permitted use, free standing or otherwise. Theconditional use process lets you 100k ar eaih item... r think in termsof a free standing day care center, such as the one werre presenting toyou, or a day care center in an existing complex, both really serve thesame needs... we'ire just finishing up one in chaska right now...for twocompanies. one is for a manufacturing company... r think the thing thatwerre Looking for tonight is to get a recommendation to the council thatday care, free standing or otherwise, is a desirous thing. rhe issues...the traffic, all of those can be handled on the site plan review...
Conrad: Bill, are you seeing somethi ng? I Ehink we were going throughthe first item here because werve obviousry talked about this before andwerre pretty much rubber stamping it, until you made us stay later. whatother issues, do you see other issues or are you just reall| sayi.ng, treyany other thoughts that sre have? Are you uncomfortable?
Planning Cornmission
September 7, 1988 -
Mee t j. ng
Page 59
Bill Boyt: Irm not opposed to this. I simply want to be comfortablethat when we put into the office park, because we are now mov ing it outof a building. The first one, I think the Council was, one of the
conditions of approval was that this would apply only to people who
worked in that facility, as I recall. So rrer re changing the parameters.
We're making it, as Mr. Carlson said, basically a free standing day care.
When $re do that, I just want to make sure vre do it right. There'scertainly a need. We've had some more discussion about it. It gives mea little bit of a feel where they're coming from. I thj.nk itrs very
important that we know exactly what the standards are. Ird like to seein the staff report Barbara, that those be more spelled out...to go withthe existing State standards. Maybe the State standards arenrt good
enough.
BatzIi:
amend i ng
door the
Erhart: Overall, I'm very
should spend a Little moreabout day care centers but
I think that these quys are going to
the ordinance and we donrt know whatnext time around.
do a
will
fine
c ome
job and werre
in through the
Conrad: Any more thoughts al,ong this line? Tim, are you comfortable
that r.rerre reacting with enough information?
Erhart: I donrt kno$, much about day care centers because I haven't usedit. I guess I would basically make the assumption that there are somepretty good rules in effect in regulating them. Werre using the, it
vrould be okay here, from a safety standpoint I guess. The overall
feeling was that thj.s probably would be safer, I'm comparing it with aprivate home, safer than a private home. Better fire proEection. Itrs
more of a disciplined environment in the industrial park. Private homes
tend to be private. Things happen in private homes that...
Conrad: And you feel comfortable that we can put this type of operation
into a free standing unit?
comfortable with it. I
time reviewing the Code
th j.nk yes, maybe we
and learning more
Conrad: And you don't care
then again. . .
who goes to that daY care center?
it makes a difference. I think it's a greatErhart: No, I donrt think
business.
Emmings: Let me teII you how I feel about day care. I can remember the
panic in my own breast when both my vrife and I had to go to work and
somethj.ng had to be done with our child. It's a great. need out in this
area in particular. I think we should do everything we can to make that
type of service available. Especially for people who work out in
chanhassen. Having your kids close by to where you work, for those times
vrhen they need you and you have to be there, is realLy an important
thi n9 .
Conrad: Brian, do you vrant to amend your motion?
Planning Commission
September 7, I988 -
tlee t i ng
Paqe 6g
Batzli: Ird be happy to accept the
to look at additional safety points
consideration, thatrs fine.
suggesti on that if staff would like
for incfusion for the Council's
Conrad: Was your motion ever seconded?
Batzli: I donrt recall .
Dacy: Tim did.
Conrad: Tim, would you amend your second?
Erhart: Sure.
Batzli moved, Erhart seconded that the Pl,anning Commission recommend
approvaL of Zoning Ordinance Amendment Request *88-15 to amend Section
20-8L4 as follows:
(13) State Licensed Day Care Centers.
AdditionalIy, to add Section 2q-292, State Licensed Day Care Centers:
1. The site shall have Ioading and drop-off points designed to avoid
interferring with traffic and pedestrian movements.
2. Outdoor play area
mitigates v i sual
3. Each center shall
s shall be located and designed in a manner
and noise impacts of adjoining residential
which
areas.
obtaj.n applj,cable state, county and city licenses.
ALso, that staff will look into additional safety points forconsideration. A11 voted in favor and the motion carried.Council's
PUBLIC HEARING:
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND SECTION 2g-8I4 TO PERMIT DAY CARE
CENTERS AS PART OF A MULTI-TENANT BUILDING AS A CONDITIONAL USE ON
PROPERTY ZONED IOP, INDUSTRIAL OFFICE PARK DISTRICT.
PubIic Present:
Name
Scott Ander son
Sue
Barbara Dacy presented
Chairman Conrad caIled
Address
Appl i cantBuilding Block Day Care
the staff report.
the public hearing to order.
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeti ng
Page 6I
Scott Anderson: My name is Scott Anderson and Itm with Anderson andAssociates. Werre corporate adminstrative consultants working with NewHorizon Day Care. New Horizon Day Care has about 30+ locations currentlyin the 7 county market and this particular Iocation, working with HeitmanwiII be the, there are three that we're currentLy rrorking with with
Heitman Properties. The property of course was developed by Opus andHeitman is the current owner. Heitman being a pension fund that ownsptoperties such as lDS Tower and the City Center and First Bank East andwest and little thj.ngs Iike that around lhe twin Cities market. Just torespond to a fei{ of the quick issues that were brought up earlier, ingeneral I think day care is just an extremely rapidly growing industryand initially when the concept of day care was to put them closer toresidential uses. Now I think a vast majority of expansion in day carethat we're seeing on behalf of New Horiz6ns ana otnei day care clients aswell, is to be closer to the place of $rork than closer to home. That's
one of the biggest single reasons that in Chanhassen yourre seeing this.
Werre in front of Minnetonka. Werre in front of the City of Minneapolis,BurnsviIIe. There are already current locations within industrial parksin multi-tenant buildings. As an example, Eden prairie on i{est 70thStreet, ...is probably the closest one. In Minneapolis, we get a multi-tenant building. In Minnetonka, a multi-tenant building. I{e,re lookingfor facilities in do$rntown Minneapolis and in the last couple weeks amulti-tenant office building vras suggested in Minneapolis showing a daycare. In fact, day care on the skyway system in downtown St. Paul with
access to rooftop for playground. Day Care is just in tremendous demand
and what we have is a very good operator, New Horizon Day Care. !!hen youlook at some of the information in there, it's considered one of the bestin the United States and they come very highly recommended. They've
always been high in the State of Minnesota standards, which by the way,the SEate of Minnesota has some of the strictest safety standards in the
United States, if not the strictest so I think when you consider daycare, as far as safety issues, the State of Minnesota really does a realstrong look at every single one of these facilities. In addition, New
Horizon has been j.n business since 1971. This is non-profit corporationthat wiII be running this particular facility called Building Blocks. Ifthere is additional space avai.Iable, and it's only if, therers a verysmall percentage chance another one of the elements that may be
incorporated into this facility is something called Chicken Soup. It'sfor sick kids. Itrs another thj.ng we're working with to expand
throughout the Twin Cities market. Again, the present demand to work
with the companies, close to the companies for care of the sick childreo
as well as an entity that would provide, subsi.dize through the
corporat ion, day care. With that, if you have any questions.
Sue from Building Block: ...One of the things that I wanted to point out
is the real benefit we have being close to hrork is when you already have
a provider in another location, a neighbor or another center, if
something happens and you canrt get therer... we have all the...call in
sick. I canrt come today, my provider is sick. I don't know what I'm
going to do. . .
Scott Anderson: ...we al-ready have a waiting list in excess of 30
students without any advertising. Without any marketing so the demand...
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Mee t i. ng
Page 62
Hnmings moved, Headla seconded to close the public hearing. Al,1 voted infavor and the motion carried. The public hearing was cloied.
Emmings: I dontt like this one. I shouldn't say I donrt like it. I,lyreservations about it being in murti-tenant buildings as opposed to a frestanding facitity is simpty access. One of my concerns, I'm not usingday care an).more. One of my major concerns $rhen I did use day care iswho has access to that building? How do we know, if you,ve got amulti-tenant building, yourve got a lot more people coming and going.Both the people who have offices there and any clients they might beseeing and deliveries being made. It seems to me that securit! in amulti-tenant building is totally different than in a free standingbuirding- They probably know a lot more about that than r do but r thinkmaybe we r^rant standards for a murti-tenant buiLding that says that theentrance and the exit to the day care facility is separate and distinctfrom the access to the buiJ,ding itself.
Scott Anderson: It definitely is.
Conrad: werre not reviewing your application.
fi[nings: I rm glad you
maybe we ought to have
thought about it. Ithat built in here.
guess what I'm saying is,
Ellson: In case the next guy doesn,t.
Conrad: why?
Emmings: I suppose you can let the parents worry about iEmy feeling is, when you need day care, sometimes you go outwhatrs available because $/hen you need it, you need it bad.facility, r^rhy don,t we impose ihat on people that are goinghere rather than forcing parents of kids...
but you knorr,
and you getIf thatto build in
Conrad: what I s going to
day care center?
happen between the car door and the front of the
Ellson: unless it's a hi.gh rise or something and you don,t even knowwhere it is and att these peopre are coming in and out. we don,t know.
Sue from Building Block: They all have to be ground level .
Conrad: You're kicking your ki.d out the car and saying, weII hopefullyyou get there?
Sue from Bui ldingsign their child BIoc k:in.Also, all of our parents have to come in and
We are close to 50? tuition filled and we've done nothing but erord ofmouth so there's another side of the demand.
Planning Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Mee t i. ng
Page 63
Conrad 3 Werre really not looking at your particular
conceptualizing here. Do we need more requirementsIrm trying to force us to think about this. Irm notsensitivity but others are I guess. I guess I'm notto happen? Tell me whatrs happening?
appl icat ion.
is what we're
showing any
sure, what's
Werre
saying?
gor ng
Batzli: It may be after you drop the child of f .
drop the child off, didn't youConrad: Because
walk them to the
the time that youbetween
door?
Emmings: Of course. Ladd, I always did but you know, using day care isa real emotional thing from the standpoint of there's a Iot of anxiety.First of all of leaving your most valuable possession with somebody else,
anybody else to start with. I knov, that the one that we used was in afree standing facility but it was in an apartment complex and that's
something that we talked about a lot. It vras who has access? How easywill it be for the people who are running this facility to recognizepeople who should be on the premises and people who should not be on thepremises. As a comfort factor, maybe like I say, maybe it's purely anemotional kind of issue and maybe I over reacted, I don't know. I don'tthink so. Maybe the stuff is aI1 designed in already.
Ellson: Doesn't Ehe State say al1 these thj.ngs right now?
through the StateSue from Building Block: I think they're aII covered
regulations.
Scott Anderson: The facility is designed for security...
Sue from Building Block: Thatts a State requirement, signing in and
signing out and asking for ID's. On your State forms, you have to have
r.rho can pick up the child. Anybody different has to have a signed
authorized slip from the parent and you have to be identifi.ed with a
I'linnesota drivers license or picture ID. State requirement.
Roman Roos: ...the ones that forth coming aLso, I think you will find
that day care is one of the most state regulated businesses that you canpossibly get into. I can't begin to tell you what we're going through
with state inspections. . .
Batzli: I have safety concerns again. The same ones that I had the
first one and I donrt know what the state says they have to do or donrt
have to do so I'm counting on the staff that they did their homework and
she came up with the 2 or 3 items that the State didn't cover.
Headla: Did you look at the State regulatjons?
Dacy: Yes. TheY are,
standards that we arein the ordinance aI so.
i.n general,
adopti ng as a
in your packet.
this application
The
is currently
i ncluded
part of
PJ. ann i ng Commission
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 64
Emnings moved, Ellson seconded that the planning Commission recommendapproval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment Request *gg-14 to amend Section2g-8!4 as follows:
(14) State licensed day care centers as part of a multi-tenant building.
AdditionalIy, to add to Section 2g-292, State Licensed Day Care Centers:
1. The site sha1l have Loading and drop-off points designed to avoidinterferring with traffic and pedestrian movements.
2. Outdoor play areas shall be located and designed in a manner whichmitigates visual and noise impacts of adjoining residential areas.
3. Each center shall obta j.n applicable State, County and City licenses.
AIl voted in favor and the motion carried.
approve theI7, 1988 as
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Emmings moved, Erhart seconded toMinutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated Augustpresented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
TREE PROTECTION POLICIES.
Erhart: If this is easy to do, I'm all for it. I still have a littlehard time understanding why, we basically handle Class 2 wetlands. Ifsomeone smells a Class 2 wetland out there, somehow we canrt let him, canyou prohibj.t him from wrecking it and I think we do it effectively. tcanrt understand why we have been effective in preserving trees. rf wehave- to do a whole great big overlay and make a drawing of all the treesin the City, thatts fine. Itrs just a lot of work. I just have a hardtime understanding why we have to do that. But if thatis what we have todo, tha t. Is fine.
BatzIi:
easily.It seems to me you could do aerial photos and do it really
Dacy: Therers more imprications in wetland areas as far as buirdabilityand poorer soirs and so forth. Trees add value Eo the rot and so on.
Conrad: So our di recti on to staff is
take this
to proceed ?
onto the Counc i I .
Emmings: Along with the issue of blending.
Dacy: Yes, werre going to
Batzli: And blending and without appearing toprotection policy, I think it is something thatas weII as the blending. I think werre kind ofshort trip since it's so late but I think it is
be trite on this tree
we definitely need to dogiving it a little bit ofvery important.
Planning Commi ssion
September 7, 1988 -
Meeting
Page 55
you stop that Dave?
drive stuff down there.
Headla: On tree protection, on the land next door to me. I see thj.sgreat big shovel going down to the lake. This is great big steel tracksand I donrt know how many tons. They just barely fit between two oaks.Theyrre hauling rock down there for the storm drainage. He comes back upand gets another Ioad of rock and goes down again. I don,t know ifyou're familiar with those. You disturb those roots by driving a tractorpast it a few times and disturb those roots, 3 to 4 years they're gone.
Now these two oaks are old oaks. I thought we hrere going to protectthose trees. Theyrre 9oin9 to be dead. Itd bet a piych6ct< witfr anybody.
Conrad:
Headla:
Conrad:
te11 i ng
feet of
would
don I t
How
You
But how do you want
them . Do r./e need an
an oak? What do you
to do that? Larry
ord j. nance that says
want?
canrt be out
donrt drive
there
within l0
Erhart: I think what we should do, we should pay special attentj on to
oak. It's not just that but I mean, tri.mming oak trees in the spring
an absolute no no and if werre going to go through this, we ought toincorporate some words in there.
Conrad: Are we looking for guidelines?
HeadIa: Yes.
Conrad: which means enforcemenE but at least the guidelines should be
there. So we should be chartering staff to be looking for guidelines
that talk about construction in areas. That talk about simply
operational procedures to preserve whatrs there. That makes sense.
I donrt know that. we can moniter it. Therers no way.
Headla: If we can improve the situation 3A2, werre way ahead.
kno$, about
trees. If
trees.
scratch
rS
into a
an
Batzli: And yourre going to go after the
violating it. If one person drives overnot going to catch them anyway.
people that
an oak Eree
flagrantly
once, you I re
They go
or break
are
root
Erhart: A lot of people just don't
development and they 90 beat up the
oak tree in the sPring.
oak
you
Conrad: A lot of people don't know about the whole root system of some
of those plants and they start planting dirt around it. The last iten
Barbara is you. I think for myself, as I told you on the phone, Irm
really sorry to lose you. Chanhassen is Iosing an outstanding planner.
Itve just been so impressed r.rith what has been done in the last year by
so few people. I wish you the best.
Headla: They had a tree plan. That should be in that tree plan.
Pianning Commission Meeting
September 7, L988 - Page 66
Erhart moved, Enmings secondedfavor and the motion carried.
to adjourn the meeting. AIl voted in
The meeting was adjourned at 12:I0 a.m..
Dacy! r think it's a fair statement to say that rrve rearry grown hereat chanhassen the last four years. r'm definitely not the same person r
r./a s four years ago, both personally and professionally. I reallyappreciate the Commission's patience Ladd. Some of you older members.If I can work with the same type of people up in Fridl€yr I,lt just beecstatic.
Submitted by Barbara DacyCity PLanner
Prepared by Nann Opheim
CHINHISSEN
MEMORfu\DUM
TO: Planning
FROM: Planning
DATE: September
SUBJ: Modi fied
690 COULTER ORIVE ' P.O. BOX 147 ' CHANHASSEN, MINNESOTA 55317
(612) 937-1900
Commi s n
St
r5, r988
Tax Increment Plan and Redevelopment Plan
Attached is Modification No. I to the Cityrs Reoevelopment Plan.
As you recall, incorporated in the Redevelopment Plan is the Tax
Increment Financing Plan for the redevelopment area which
includes the downtown commercial area and the Chanhassen Lakes
Business Park. The plan is being amended to permit the acquisi-
tion of the property north of Lake Susan by the l{ousing and
Redeveloprnent Authority. The HRA ,ri11 reconvey the property to
Rosemount, Inc. for developmenL. State law requires that the
Planning corunission find Lhat the mooification proposed is con-
sistent $rith the Comprehensive P1an. Because the Modification
involves the construction of an industrial faciJ-ity located on
land designated as industrial on the Cityrs land use plan and
zoned IOP, Industrial Office Park, the Modification proposed is
consistent with the City's land use policies for the subject
area.
RECOMMEND AT ION
Planning staff recommends the Planning Cornmission adopt the
following mot ion:
"The Planning Commission adopts Resolution No. 88-1 finding
Modification No. 8 consistent vrith the plans for developrnent of
the City of Chanhassen. "
ATTACHMENTS
Proposed resolut ion.Modification No. 8.
I
2
CITY OF
L
CITT OF CIIANUASSE$
CARVER AND HENNEPIN COUNTIES, }'INNESOTA
RESOLUTION
Date
llotion By
Resolutlon No.
Seconded Bv
RESOLUTION FIrr'DING IHE
MODIFIED TAX INCRBTENT FINANCING
PLAN TOR THE CHA"\I{ASSEN DOLNTOWN
REDEVELOPMEM PROJECT CONSISTENT
WITH THE PLANS FOR DEVELOPIIENT
0F TllE CITY OF CHar*HASSEN
I'IHEREAS r the chanhassen lrRA and clty council have authorlzed. preparatlou
of a modifled rax rncreEent Elnancr.ng plan (TrF plan) for the chanhassen
Dow'town Redevelopnent project and have sub,ltted the nodlfled plan to the
Plannlng Comisslon for co@ent; aud
WHEREAS, the Plannl.ng Conmission has made a thorough revle!, of the
Eodlfled Plan and has cornpared the plan with the prans for developmenE of the
City as a whoIe.
NoI{, TIiEREF0RE ' BE rr RESOLVED By rhe planntng conmission of the city of
Chanhassen, Mlnnesota as follows:
l. The oodlfled TIf plan is found to be conslstent lrlEh the plan fordevelopm€nt of the City of Chanhassen as a rhole.
2. rt 1a recomlended thaE the clty council of the clty of chanhassen holdthe publlc hearlng requlred by 1aw and adopr the modifled plan.
Passed thls _ d"y of _, f988, by the plannlng Comisslon of
the Clty of Chanhassen, Mlnnesoca.
ATTEST:
s ecretary
05IIREII.E4O
Chairperson
MODIFIED TAX INCREMENT EINANCING PLAN,
CHANHASSEN DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT
MODTFICATION NO. 8
CITY OF CHANHASSEN, II{INNESOTA
September, 1988
Prepared by:
LeFevere, Lefler, Kennedy,O'Brien & Draerz
2000 First Bank Place Westl,linneapolis, MN 55402(612) 333-0543
Table of Contents
Modified Tax Increment Financing p1an, Chanhassen
Dovrntown RedeveLopment project, Modification No.
P aqe
8
Subsection H.
Subsection I.
Subsection J.
Subsection K.
Subsection L.
Subsection M.
Subsection N.
De finitions
Statutory Authority
Statement of Objectives . .statement of Public PurposeRelation to Redevelopment Dj.strict plan
Boundaries of TIF DistlictHistory and Classification of TIF
D i strict.Modification of TIF P1an. .
Use of Tax Increment- , .Excess Tax Increment. . .Limitation on Administrative Expenses .Limitation on Bound.ary Changes.
Rel oc at ion .Parcels to be Acquired within TIpDistrict.
Estimate of Project Costs .Estimate of Bonded Indebtedness . . . .Estimated Captured Tax Capacity andTax Increment . .Duration of TIF District.
Estimate of fmpact on Other TaxingJurisdictions..
AnnuaI Financial Report
I
2
3
3
3
4
4
4
4
5
5
5
5
5
6
6
6
6
6
7
Subs ec tion
S ub s ection
Subsection
o.
P.
0.
Subsection R.
Subsection S.
Subsection A.
Subsection B.
Subsection C.
Subsection D.
Subsection E.
Subsection F.
Subsection G.
Subsection T.
MODIFIED TAX INCREMENT FTNANCING PLAN,
REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT, MODIFICATION NO. 8
A. De finitions
For the purposes of thefollowing terms sha11 have thethe context otherwise requires:
"Authority"Authority in and
"City Council"
Council;
CHANHASSEN DOWNTOWN
mod i fi ed
me aning s
nAdministrative Expenses" means all expenditures of the HRAor City other than amounts paid for the purchas. of t.r,a o,anounts paid to contractors or others providing materials and
?grri9g", including architectural and- engine5ring services,directly connected with the physical developm6nt of r6a1 piop.rtyin ttre Redevelopment Distritt, relocation- benefits !iii-1" o.services provided for persons residing or bus ine sses 'rocated inthe Redevelopment District, or .rmount; used to pay intereit on,fund a reserve for, or se1l at a discount bonds iisued pri"o"r,tto Section 469.178 of the TIF Act. Administrative ixperrse=includes amounts paid for services provided by bond coirnsel,fiscal consultants and planning or econoriic developmentconsultants.
or |'HRA" means the Housing and Redevelopmentfor the City of Chanhassen, llinnesotai
"Chanhassen Downtown Redevelopment District,, or,,Redevelop-ment District" means the Redevelopment District which was createdand established pursuant to and in accordance with the HRA Act on
December 19, L977.
means the City of Chanhassen, a municipal corporationunder the laws of the state of Iulinnesotai
"Comprehensive P1an" means the Cityr s objectives,standards and programs to guide public and privatedevelopment, redevelopment and preservation for allwater within the City,
policies,
land use,lands and
"HRA Act"
469.047 t
" Proj ect "Project whichthe HRA Act,
or "Council" means the Chanhassen City
"County" means Carver County, Minnesotai
means Minnesota Statutes, Section 459.001 through
means the Chanhassen Downtown Redevelopment
was established on December 19, 1977, pursuant to
"Redevelopment P1an" means the plan for the Chanhassen
Dorrntosrn Redevelopment District adopted pursuant to the HRA Acton December 19, L977 and subsequently modified on sevenoccasions.
Tax fncrement PIan, thespecified be1ow, unless
1
"Staterr means the State of Minnesota;
"Tax Increment
_ Bonds,' means any general obligationrevenue tax increment bonds issued by- thL City to fi;";;publi,c costs associated hrith the Reievelopme"i O:."tii.f .
-
term also includes any bonds which may le sofa i" th;-;;l;."any obligations issued to refund the Tix Inclement Bondsl
fncrement Financing District,' means the TaxDistrict associated $rith the Redevelopmentcreated and established on December 19, t9?7 i
Increment Financing Acttr or "TIp Actt meansSectj.ons 469.174 through 469.1?9; and
"Tax fncrement Financing pIan. or "plan"which was_.initially adopted -on December 19,hereby rnodif ied.
or
the
The
or
" Tax
F i nanc ing
which was
t TaxStatutes,
fncrement
District,
Minne sota
means the TIF plan
L977, and, which is
B. Statutory Authorit
Pursuant to the HRA Act, the City on December 19, 1977,created the Chanhassen Downtor.rn Redev6Iopment fio;ect-':,n theportion of the City north of state Highway 5 and estibtished thearea as a Tax Increment pinancing DistricL. On December 1g, 197gthe Project was expand.ed to indlude an additiona] 41G acres intne area south of Highway 5 (chanhassen Lakes Business park) andincluded that area as part of the TrF District. At ah;-lime otthe creation and ex_p_ansion oj the project, a Redevelopment plan$ras adopted by the HRA and the city. the 'p1an containld detartsof the Project and included a briei dj.scussion r"gara;j ih. ,."of TIF. This constituted the nstatement of the i"ttr"a' pitposeafor financing" the project required by the HRA Act uf Lrr"-li.rn. orthe adoption of the RedeveJ,opment plan.
Through the expansion of the project and changes in thePlan, it is appropriate for the gne ana City to ame-nJ the tffPlan to reflect changed conditions an. neq, ir"p"";i;:- iccora_ingly, the city and Hna intend to adopt a modified TrF plan hrhichaccurately reflects the- fi-nanciat p1.., for ttre nroieci, withparticular emphasis .on_ lhe developmerit proposed by nos6mount Inc.
:3_ tlg Redevelopnent Districr. ior.r.i, iaoptio'ir oi ir, -.rpa"t.a
TIr. Plan does not constitute an election on tile purt oi tir! Cityor HRA to proceed with the project under the TIi Act, .*".pt toth: :)..ten! reguired by Section 469.t79 of the tfr a.i. tn. nneand City intend to continue to administer the nrojeci as a TIf,District created and ,certified prior to August t,- iilg,- exceptvrith regard to those
_
development activities which are the subjectof this amendnent which is made after May 1, 19gg.
The HBA and the City seek to achieve the following objec_tives through the modified plan for the TIF District:
C. Statement of Ob'j ectives.
1.
2
3 encourage development innot been utilized to its
provide employment opportunities \ ithin the
improve the tax base of the City andeconomy of the City and State;
City;
the general
4 impl ernent relevant portions
and
assist in the acquisitionof promoting development.
an area of thefull potential;City which has
of the Comprehensive plan i
of property for the purposeE
D. Statement of Public Purpose.
In amending the TIF Plan, theintend to make the following findings:
1
HRA and the City Council
Anticipated development by Rosemount Inc. LrouId notreasonably be expected to occur solely through privateinvestment within the reasonably foreseeable futureand, therefore, the use of TIF for land acquisition is
deemed necessary;
The modified TIF Plan will afford maximum opportunity,consistent with the sound need.s of the City as a whole,for development of the Redevelopment District byprivate enterprise; and
)
The modified TIF Plan
development of the city
conforms to
as a whole.
general plans for
E. Relation to Redevelopment District plan.
The Pl-an for the Redevelopment District was adopted by the
HRA and the City rn L977 and has been amended on seven occasions.This rnodification is for the purpose of describing the develop-ment activities proposed by Rosemount Inc. for a portion of theRedevelopment District. Except with respect to those development
3
3
For purposes of the finding it will make regarding Section459.L75, Subd. 3, clause l2l of the TIF Act, the City has reliedupon the reconrmend.ati.ons of its staff and planning commission aswell as the personal knowledge of the members of the City Council,regarding the development potential of the property to beacquired and resold to Rosemount Inc..
activities described in this modification,unchanged since the comprehensive amendmentand City in the first quarter of 1997.
F. Boundaries of TIp District.
the Plan
adopted by
rema insthe HRA
Boundaries of the TIF District are shohrn on Figure 1of theMarch, 1987 Pl-an modification. The TrF District includesproperty in both the Dor^rntosrn Redevelopment Area and chanhassenLakes Business Park. Legal descriptioni of the boundaries of theTrF District vrere included as exhibits to Resorution Nos. 77-72and 78-73, adopted by the City Council on December 19, 1977, andDecember 18, L978, respectively. The boundaries df the TIFDistrict r^rilr not be changed as i result of this modification.
The TrF District r^ras. established by the HRA and city in rate1977 and contained approxj.mately 176 acies. The TrF Disirict wasexpanded the follovring year $rith the inclusion of approximately415 acres in the area south of Highway 5 known as thi'chanhassenLakes Business Park. For purposes of classification, the TIEDistrict is- a pre-1979 TfF Disirict and the HRA and city intendto retain that designation except as required by Sectio' aOS.fZgof the TIF Act.
c. History and CIassi fica tion of Tf f' District.
H. Modification of TfF Plan.
The TfF Plan may be modified by the HRA and the City,provided that any enlargement of geographic area of the TIEDistrict, increase in amount of bonded indebtedness to beincurred, incruding a determination to capitalize intereit on thedebt if that determination w-as not a pari of the original plan,or to i.ncrease or decrease the amount bf interest on ih" debt tobe capitalized, increase in the portion of the captured asiessedvalue to be retained by the HRA, increase in totai estimated taxincrement expenditures or designation of additional property tobe acquired by the HRA or the City sha11 be approv6d upon thenotice and after suc-h di.scussion, pubtic hearing and find'ings asreguired for approval of the original p1an.
This modification is reguired because theintend to acquire land for the 330,000 squaredevelopment proposed by Rosemount Inc.
HBA and the Cityfoot industrial
I. Use of Tax Incremen t.
Pursuant to section 469.176, Subd. 4 of the TIF Act, aIIrevenues derived from the TrF District shall be used in accor-dance with the TrF pIan. The revenues sha11 be used to financeor otherwise pay the capitar and administrative costs of i"t:..ri.-ties within Redeveropment District as identified in the Redever-opment Plan and TfF plan.
4
Pursuant to Section 469.L76, Subd. 2 of the TIF Act, in anyyear in r./hich the increment exceed.s the amount necessary to paythe costs authorized by the TrF plan, the HRA sha1l'use theexcess amount to do any of the folrowing, in the order determinedby the HRA:
J. Excess Tax Increment.
prepay the outstanding bonds;
discharge the pledge of tax increment
pay into an escrow account dedicatedbondsi or
I
2
3
4
therefor i
to the palment of
return the excess amount to the Carver county auditorwho shal1 distribute the excess amount to the City, thecounty and independent school district.
In addition, the HRA and theTIF PIan again in older to providewithin the Redevelopment District.
City may choose to modify thefor other public improvements
K. Limitation on Administrative Expenses.
Pursuant to Section 469.176, Subd. 3 of the TIF Act, admin-istratj-ve expenses are Iimited to 1O percent of the total taxincrement expenditures. Each time the HRA increases the budgetof the TIF District as it is doing with this modification, iireamount of tax increment money allocated to adminj.strative costsmay be increased as long as the total of administrative expendi-tures does not exceed 10 percent of the total budget of the TIF
Di strict .
L. Limitation on Boundary Changes.
The geographic area of the TIP District mayit cannot be enlarged after five years followingthe effective date of the TIF Act. Accordingly,of the TIF District may no longer be enlarged.
be reduced, but
August l, L979,the boundaries
_Although no relocation is anticipated, the HRA accepts asbinding its obligations under state Iar", for relocation and willadminister relocation services for famities, individuals andbusinesses displaced by public action.
M. Relocation.
N. P€.rcels to be Acguired Within the TIF District.
The HRA will acquire property r^rithin the TfF District andwill convey it to Rosemount Inc. for the purpose of constructingan industrial facility. The legal description of the property tobe acgui,red is attached hereto as Exhibit A.
5
Previous modifications of the Trr plan have outrined thecosts associated with various earlier developments occurringwithin the Redevelopment District. The forlowini figrrr"" iie ttreestimated costs solely related to the 33O,600 -"qrr.r"- footindustrial facility proposed by Rosemount Inc:
$ 1,441 ,8804l ,70835,900
220,000
34,612
O. Estimate of Project Costs.
Land Acquisition
Administrative Expenses
Costs of Bond fssuanceCapitalized Interest
Bond Discount
Total $ 1,775,000
P. Estimate of Bonded fndebtedness.
O. Estimated Ca ptured Tax Ca pac it and Tax fncrement.
R.Duration of the TIr'District.
S. Estimate of fmpact on Other Taxinq Jurisdiction.
It is anticipated that TIF Bonds wi1l be sold in annot to exceed $1,775,000. principal and interest paymentsBonds will be met through pledged increments.
amount
on the
It is estimated that constructi.on of the industrial facilityby Rosemount Inc. will begin in late 19gg and be completed prioito January 2, L990. A partial j.ncrement witl be paid to the HRAin 1990, but the full increment will- not be availatle until 1991.The -estimated captured .tax _ capacity of the property followingcompletion of the facility is $754,285 and the e;timated annualtax increment is 9837,258.
In accordance with the TIF Act, the HRA may continue toreceive TIF payments until 2009. However, after )001, the HRAmay conti.nue to receive increment only if it has obligationsoutstanding on that date which were in-pIace prior to ap'ril L,1990.
ft is anticipated that $937,259 in increment will becaptured from the property which is the focus of this modifica_tion of the TIF plan. This increment amount is based on fullassessment of the d-evelopment on January 2, 1990, for taxespayable in 1991. Although the HRA and -the City believe theactuar impact on other taxing jurisdictions is zeio because theRosemount rnc. development vrourd. not have occurred vrithin thereasonably foreseeable future without public intervention, theassumed amount of tax- dollars foregone - by each jurisdiction islisted in the table belokr:
6
Amount of Taxto Various
Taxinq Jurisdiction
City of Chanhassen
Carver County
Independent SchoolDistrict No. 112
Other
To tal
rncrement Attributable
Taxing Jurisdictions
E s timated
Tax Loss
($)
$77 4,987
$229 ,409
$399,3?2
$ 33,490
$837,2s8
T. Annual Financial Report.
Pursuant to Section 469.L75, Subd. 6 of the TIF Act, the HRAmust file an annual financial report regarding the developmentactivities within the TIF District which are the subject ofmodifications to the TfF Plan made afte! May 1, 1988. The reportshaLl be filed by July 1 of each year with the school board, thecounty board and the state auditor. The report to be filed bythe HRA shaIl include the following information:
1. the original tax capacity of the TIF District;
2 the captured tax capacity of the TIFincluding the amount of any captured tax
shared $rith other taxing districts;
District,
capac i ty
3
4
the outstanding principal amount of bonds issued orother loans incurred to finance project costs in theTIF District;
for the reporting period
TIF Di-strict, the amount
and the actual amount
categories:
and for the duration of the
budgeted under the TIF Plan
expended for the following
a) acquisition of land and buitdings through condem-nation or purchase i
b) site improvement or preparation costs;
public utilities or other publicinstallation of
improvements;
7
c)
d)administrative costs, including the allocated costof the HRA and the City;
for properties sold to developers,the property to the HRA and thedeveloper; and
the amount of tax exempt obligations, other than thosereported under clause (3), L,hich were issued on behalfof private entities for facilities located in the TIFDis tri.ct.
5 the total cost ofprice paid by the
6.
8
C8 :0511RA01. E4 0