Loading...
1977 06 22 REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING JUNE 22, 1977 e Mal MacAlpine called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. with the following members present: Hud Hollenback, Walter Thompson, Dick Dutcher, and Roman Roos. Jerry Neher came at 7:55. Les Bridger was absent. MINUTES: A motion was made by Dick Dutcher and seconded by Walter Thompson to approve the June 8, 1977, Planning Commission minutes. Motion seconded by Walter Thompson. The following voted in favor: Hud Hollenback, Walter Thompson, and Dick Dutcher. Roman Roos and Mal MacAlpine abstained. Motion carried. MIKE SORENSON CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT: Mike Sorenson and Ron Enright were present. The property is located on the north side of West 79th Street and on the west side of Great Plains Blvd. and is in the CBD. Mr. Sorenson wants to construct an approximately 6,900 square foot one story retail building. The City Planner suggested that three parking spaces be eliminated. There are more than enough parking spaces. He further recommended that the petitioner indicate the type of screening to be used to screen the outside storage area. The Engineer has checked the grading plan and found no problems. Mr. Enright discussed the plan. The building will be tan in color. The screening will be either a cyclone fence with slats or a redwood fence. The storage building or garage on the northwest corner of the property would be used for truck storage and storage of rental equipment. Proposed uses for the building are; plumbing shop, rental center, and auto parts store. ~ Jerry Neher came at this point. Hud Hollenback moved to hold a public hearing to consider a conditional use permit for retail sales and services for Mike Sorenson on July 13, 1977, at 8:00 p.m. Motion seconded by Dick Dutcher. Motion unanimously approved. MOTHER-IN-LAW APARTMENTS: Walter Thompson suggested that being the city licenses bars, kennels, stables, dogs and cats; why can't the city license mother-in-law apartments? The license would be good on a renewal basis for a nominal fee for as long as the people own the property. If the property is sold the mother-in-law license is void and can be renewed by the new owner. The City Attorney will look into the approach but there is still the problem of the SAC charge. Members recommended the Council explore the possibility of licensing mother- in-law apartments and how that would compare with having mother-in-law apartments as a conditional use and discuss with the Sewer Board the SAC charge implications. e PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION AND ECOLOGICAL COMMITTEE: The following people were present: Al Sinnen, Ecological Committee Joe Betz, Chairman, Park and Recreation Commission Phyllis Pope, Park and Recreation Commission Shirley Chellis, Park and Recreation Commission Walter Coudron, Park and Recreation Commission Mel Kurvers The Ecological Committee has established some tentative suggestions Planning Commission Meeting June 22, 1977 -2- for Lotus Lake. Dick Dutcher read the suggestions. Bruce Pankonin - On June 6, 1977, the Council gave the Ecological Committee, Park and Recreation Commission, and Planning Commission the following directive: Councilman Geving moved that the Council is in agreement with the City Planner's report of June 2, 1977, providing free public access to all the lakes in the City and specifically seek out a suitable access on the northeast end of Lotus Lake and at some future point report back to the Council with methods of funding, suitability of a site, alternative sites, etc. Motion seconded by Councilman Neveaux and everybody voted in favor of it. The Council is in concurance with the idea of a public access to Lotus Lake and has given us the directive to seek out a suitable location for an access and neighborhopd park on Lotus Lake. Dick Dutcher - I wonder if both the issue of public access and perhaps some preliminary discussions on regulation of water use might not be a reasonable way to tie these together and at the same time make the park proposal,. the access proposal, more palpable to the people that live along or near Lotus Lake. This questionnaire that we got out, percentage wise we got a higher return from the Lotus Lake area than we got from any other area of the city,so those people are concerned. They are interested in what's going on. I would hope we would get as much imput as we possibly can from them as we go on. Hud Hollenback - I would like to see some sort of inventory on Lotus Lake. I mean like where is the housing pressure now, how many boats do homeowners have that have access to the lake, how deep is the lake, how would you classify the clarity of the lake, etc. You start talking to the DNR and they will say, we'll put in parking for 500 boats. Maybe you don't want 500 boats on that lake. Maybe you want 10 boats~ because of the boats that are already there by right. When we see .., the inventory we might come to a different conclusion. What kind of soil does it show up in the northeast section for a park? Bruce Pankonin - Peat and muck, steep slopes and good loam. The Ecological Committee has set a goa~. I think it has been re~nforced by the Park Commission that there should be public access to lakes and everybody should have an access to the city's lakes. To financing these would be, on lake shore property would be through LAWCON Grants. It seems logical to the Council and the Planning Commission staff that the first park the city should go after in response to development pressures is a park on Lotus Lake for neighborhood park purposes. Hud Hollenback - What kind of park do you visualize up there? Bruce Pankonin - I see a park of 10 to 15 acres in size with a beach and a boat launch and an area to play ball and in the winter time some hockey rinks and free skating. A neighborhood park about a quarter the size of Lake Ann but just to serve the immediate neighborhood and provide access to the lake. We have talked to the State Planning Agency and the people that are in charge of the LAWCON Funding and this particular site, with it's conservation characteristics, it's water based characteristics, active recreational characteristics meets all the criteria for a LAWCON Grant and would probably be funded. There are very few sites that do all the things that they want to do and this happens to be one of them. Joe Betz - It's agreed that there is a need for a park up there. The matter of what characteristics you have, that's a separate discussion~ which points are being discussed tonight. It requires further study .., to look at it and see what is really feasible, what should go in there. There certainly should be a park up there. We haven't discussed how it would be equipped and developed. We have a conflict amongst e e e e. Planning Commission Meeting June 22, 1977 -3- ourselves in discussing what level it should be developed to as opposed to developing Lake Ann Park. We are trying to weigh those two things. We are looking seriously at trying to, at this time, increase the size of Lake Ann Park. One should not eliminate the need for the other in any way but in terms of how heavily you would develop that northeast park might be affected by the development that would go on at Lake Ann Park. We have not come to any conclusion yet. We would look to working with you, the Planning Commission and Ecological Committee, in some ways to actually arrive at that decision. Hud Hollenback - What are your thoughts on getting the DNR involved? Bruce Pankonin - I think we are going to have to follow up on the Council's directive and that is to find an area for a suitable boat launch on Lotus Lake and investigate all the methods of financing that. Any time we start dealing with the DNR there are certain obligations on our part and some people are going to have to make hard decisions aI?-d weigh all of the issues. I think we are going to have to lay out, w~th the Park and Recreation Commission, a total financing program for this. Dick Dutcher - With DNR access you are going to lose some control because they are not going to finance it unles~ they contr~l ~t. I t~ink that has to be weighed to as to whether as a c~ty we are w~ll~ng to g~ve up control over access on a lake this small and as relatively fragile as Lotus is. Russell Larson - I think one of, being a resident of Lotus Lake for the past 17 years and observing the intensification of boat traffic, one of the priori ti'es in 'that is controlling the surface usage, limitation of horsepower. We had one accident there this week. It's impossible on a nice holiday or week end to go out in your canoe or take a sailboat out. In my view this is a priority and the noise factor is tremendous. Mel Kurvers - I would have to agree with Russ and this year it has picked up a lot more. There are larger boats out there. . You can't go out there with a sailboat or'a canoe. Mal MacAlpine - I know the Park and Recreation Commission and the Ecological Committee both spent many hours in their' respective areas and I would like to see us try to come up with some more specific statistics~ similar to what you were talking about Hud, and come to the Planning Commission with as many statistics as possible and a definite recommendation as early as possible. I feel we have to come to some decision on the surface usage on lakes, not just Lotus, put also Minnewashta.' Bruce pankonin - There is a'lot of money available this summer for LAWCON Funds and I think we should figure out a site and put together an application. There is a lot of money available for acquisition not development. This thing may be developed 15 years from now. In the next couPle of months we:have to get an application in. We can apply for a grant up to $100,000. It will have to be one site. As I look at how the city is being absorbed I see the Lotus Lake area as being the most threatened. Hud Hollenback - Do you know how many homes are built on the shoreline that have lake access? Do you know many buildable lots remain? Bruce pankonin - Yes. Hud Hollenback - I think this would be of prime importance, how many more boats, by buying land, unless we zone a conservation easement, as these things sell, how many boats are going to be on that lake? You may not want additional land for a public landing or if it is it be canoes only. That would have a big influence on what kind of park you put in. Bruce Pankonin - We know how much' is developable and we know the capacities in the sewer and the water so we can get a pretty good fix Planning Commission Meeting June 22, 1977 -4- on the numbers as to how many dwelling units will be there. We know on the average how many boats per single family home. ~ Roman Roos - Joe, in terms of the Park and Recreation Commission, what'" do they feel the priority is right now? Is it Lotus Lake or is it Lake Ann? Joe Betz - Speaking for myself, we are torn between the two. We see the people that pay to live in Chanhassen, on a Saturday or a Sunday going to Lake Ann. Whether these other areas will alleviate that or not is something that should be a part of your evaluation of what to do next. Roman Roos - If we are going to apply for a grant and we have got to pick one area to work on, what we are doing is talking about 19 different topics and we are not going to get to a head, what I am asking of the ~ark and Recreation Commission as a charge and what I as a Planning Commission member, I want to take these recommendations of the Park and Recreation Commission and try to target on that recommendation and take that recommendation and apply it towards a grant in about a two month period. Bruce Pankonin - Last year the pre-applications for LAWCON Grants were due July 19, 1976. They haven't come out with a schedule but last year they said, you have a week to complete them. We have got to look at July. In terms of the grant criteria we have to look at land where we are conserving wildlife and fish habitat, we are providing for active recreation and a myried of recreational activities. We have to temper that by questioning which parcels are under threat of acquisition by others. Maybe Lake Ann is next year because sewer isn't going to be there until 1981 and Chanhassen doesn't allow subdivision without the sewer. ' ~ Joe Betz - It would be nice to go out and ask the people and I suspect'" if you asked the people you would find out that they would say do something at Lake Ann Park but the point is as Bruce has pointed out, trying to minimize our investment and maximizing our return it's probably is good to try and shoot for that parcel up north. The lands at Lake Ann Park postponed until next year. We will continue looking at it with the idea of addressing it next year seriously for funding. If we get the other one for $25,000 we have got that piece of property. Dick Dutcher - I would like to ask staffs help in of statistics, surface usage, restricting engines tying in Hud'scomments, and available inventory time frame we have? Bruce Pankonin - Last year the State Planning Agency wanted pre-application~ by the middle of July. Hud Hollenback - Maybe you, as a group {Park and Recreation Commission} ~hould get together with Bruce and walk the area. I have never been there. Maybe you wouldn't be satisfied. Bruce is making the recommendation. Dick Dutcher - Could we give staff some authority to proceed with some preliminary work on this? Bruce Pankonin - That has to be a Council recommendation. Joe Betz - Is there any way of getting engineering estimates of costs of getting that site developed to the level that you would need it? Roman Roos - Bill Brezinsky could give us an estimate. Joe Betz - Does everybody feel that as far as, if we are going to apply for anything this year that you got direction to go. We have already admitted that we approved it based other previous discussion. I think you should start to go in that direction and the only thing we can do is say stop. Bruce, you set up a time working through Fran doing the summarization to a particular size, facts. What is the e e . e Planning Commission Meeting June 22, 1977 -5- to get as many people from Park and Rec. to go look at the property. Mal MacAlpine - The Park and Rec., by July 6 should be in a position to come to the Planning Commission recommending that that is a suitable site. Bruce pankonin - I think they are going to have to come up with a recommendation next week to the Council. The Council can authorize staff to start preparing LAWCON applications. A motion was made by Roman Roos and seconded by Walter Thompson to adjourn. Motion unanimously approved. Meeting adjourned at 10:00 p.m. Don Ashworth City Manager