1979 12 12
EXCERPT OF PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES DATED DECEMBER 12, 1979
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CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, SITE PLAN REVIEW, CANNONBALL KITCHENS, PUBLIC
HEARING:
The public hearing was called to order by Chairman Roman Roos at
7:50 p.m. The following persons were present: Charles Novak,
14750 South Robert Trail, Rosemount, MN; Larry Zamor, Excelsior;
L.J. Renner, Tonka Bay; and Robert J. Davis, 4212 Alden Drive, Edina.
Bob Waibel, Assistant Manager/Land Use Coordinator read the notice of
public hearing.
Bob Waibel reviewed his planning report and noted that the only real
changes in the plan were the removal of the 11 parking spaces that
were proposed east of the structure. The number of parking spaces is
now reduced to 65. Mr. Waibel noted that consideration should be
given for postponement of utilizing the full proposed capacity of the
restaurant until a neighboring development occurred, wherein cross
easement or shared parking could be incorporated into these plans.
Shared parking would have to be in place before ultimate facilities
are in operation (that would be the banquet area).
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The Housing and Redevelopment Authority reviewed these plans at their
meeting of November 12, 1979, and found the plan to be acceptable.
They suggested that some low lying shrubs be plan~ed on the berm in
front of the trash enclosure and that a couple more deciduous trees
be added on the western property line and that a couple ash trees
be added on the northern property line.
Bob Waibel recommended that the Planning Commission recommend to the
City Council to approve the site plan and building moratorium variance
for Cannonball Kitchen with the following conditions:
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1. That the perimeter of all manuevering and parking areas
be lined with concrete curb;
2. That the city engineer approve the grading, drainage,
utility, lighting and parking sub-surface preparation
plans of the applicant;
3. That proposed signage is reviewed by the Sign Committee
and approved by the City C~uncil;
4. That the final plans include the landscape recommendations
of the HRA;
5. That the capacity OD the restaurant be limited to the 60
parking spaces provided with the extra five spaces reserved
for employee parking which includes reservation for the
utilization of the proposed banquet facilities since the
use of said banquet facilities would potentially exceed
the parking ar.eas provided on the plan by 15 to 20 spaces.
Clark Horn - You're ruling out ever expanding into this eastern section?
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Bob Waibel - I am going along with what the HRA set aside for that
soft entry portion into Chanhassen.
Roman Roos - What your saying is that if development occurs to the west
whatever it might be, office building, office/warehouse,
etc., that at only that point in time you feel that the
shared parking should permit the improvements of the banquet
ar ea ?
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Bob Waibel - Yes, any ~increase i:n the capacity.
~ Roman Roos - Your saying that parking right now is adequate for
three persons per space.
Bob Waibel - Parking right now is 65 spaces, counting 60 for customers
and five for employees. They are estimating five employee
parking spaces for each shift. That puts it at about
180 capacity. The upstairs right now is somewhere around
the neighborhood of 150. That leaves them approximately
10 spaces short for the banquet :'.area that they had
indicated which would be 60 persons in capacity.
Roman Roos - I'd like to have the people from Cannonball Kitchens
respond to that.
Charles Novak - I guess before we proceed I'd like to have my memory
refreshed to the HRA recommendation.
Bob Waibel - The HRA had reviewed the new plan, it had just been received
that day so they accepted the plan that was revised that
you have right now. Their endorsement was based upon the
new plan, showing the deletion of the 11 spaces.
Charles Novak - Who elimiated the 11 parking spaces?
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Bob Waibel - The HRA did from our recommendations at the last meeting.
I think they found it obvious the HRA had set aside that
green space and this is a great diverence from their
previous rulings on that.
Charles Novak - In our last discussions your recommendations were that
11 space parking area would be a problem.
Roman Roos - We went along with the recommendation based on the
green space, but moreso than that we were concerned,
as I recall, with the signage.
Bob Waibel - I have no indication of free standing signage in any plans.
Charles Novak - We haven't shown that at the present time. We knew
the signage was going to come up at some point and
we did show a picture last time on what type of pylon
sign we would like to have but we haven't gotten
to a point of finalization.
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Roman Roos - I'll try and recall back to a discussion we had and one
of the things of course was the viewability of that parking
area from Highway 5. The green area of course, and you
can attest to this Mr. Zamor, from day back we have been
talking about a greenway area, moderate width, but
something that would be viewable as you enter Chanhassen
and that discussion has ever changed even back when
Holiday and Happy Chef were working in conjunction. I
am sure that thing still holds true. I know that I
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expressed the question that would the number of parking
spaces that you have now be adequate, and in that point
in time they stated that it would be. I'm just trying
to recall from memory some of the other items brought up.
We expressed some concern about the entry, the cross
easement parking was brought up but at that point in time
I don't think there was any firm indication that you might
use cross easement parking with the development to the west.
I think this is something new that I had not heard before.
You showed us a picture of the restaurant and we would like
to discuss the structural design of that building. We have
a physical layout and we would like to hold that structural
design to 'something in the line of that which we saw
in that photograph. It's very difficult to look at a drawing
like this and say "yes that's the shape of the building"
without knowing physically what it's going to look like.
Charles Novak - I brought a set of plans with me today showing that
it is basically a copy, although the floor plan is
slightly larger. The Cannonball Kitchens, Inc.
from st. Cloud owns the facility and land and they
would be building this second building as a corporate
facility, not a franchise.
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Roman Roos - The reason I asked that question would be very
desirous at this point in time to do all the construction
complete in that building rather than going back as
you are talking about and if the banquet room proves
to be the thing that is a bread winner to increase the
capacity of that banquet room is that they are desirous
to put together as one total package or are they doing
this as they "answer to" staff concerns.
Charles Novak - No, they basically build the building totally, that's
why we didn't want to get a recommendation saying
to reduce the size of the building and then add onto
it later. It's better construction-wise to build
the building the size that they need it now and
just prove that the parking capacity is adequate or
use it at a slightly less because we plan to have some
dividers in the banquest area to make a couple small
rooms and one large room so we can just use it at
a half capacity until such time as we i.can make further
arrangements for the parking.
Roman Roos - Just one other question, in your determination, based on
the other two Cannonball restaurants, what do you feel
is adequate for parking, I'd like to know that factor.
I know what the ordinance says, but I'd be very curious
to know what you think.
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Charles Novak - I would like to see them personally have a few more
cars than the 60 that are there and I think the
additional 11 that we had put them at what I feel
a reasonable (capacity for use of a banquet;~acility
on a part time basis and the upper restaurant on a
full time basis, but I don't think that reduction down
to the 65 cars is in the long run adequate parking
for both areas in full operation and an additional 10
to 12 spaces will be needed for that to run properly.
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Roman Roos - Just one more question - Again, coming back to the
corporation, would it be their desire then if you had
the parking spots .or if you did to finish off the total
banquet room or are you going to try and feel out the
market place.
Charles Novak - They'll finish off the total area because of the
construction costs. To finish off half of the
banquet room and put the rest of the carpeting
and paneling or whatever it takes, mechanical
systems have to go in in tact - so I don't think
the final costs of the difference between finishing
half the banquet:room and the entire banquet room
are really an unreasonable amount of costs to project
for future use.
Tom Droegemueller - I'm curious what type of a market study you did.
Charles Novak - I didn't do the market study. It was the Cannonball
people themselves.
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Walt Thompson - My comment is and I don't know if I'm reading this
correctly or not, it sounds to me like they're
limiting the capacity of the restaurant to the number
of parking spaces and while I do not have any
arguments with three people per car, I can see
an occasion,lwhere you're going to have more than
3 people per car, maybe it will average out, but
I really don't think they ought to be limited.
I would like to see some more parking spaces put
in where they had them originally, I think they can
berm that and put some low growing vegetation in
there and it would cover that. Personally, it seems
kind of nebulous to me to anticipate something
happening on the west, which at this time we don't
have anything before us, hopefully, they are saying
something will come in there that will let us expand
our parking to the area, but I hate to see them limited
by the cold number of parking spots.
Roman Roos - But are you certain about expanding that parking back
intoi\.the original location south of the Holiday -
because that's quite contrary to everything we believe
in Walter, from day one.
Walter Thompson - It could well be, but I believe that that 11 space
parking area could be concealed by landscaping
and that is not really my primary premise. I don't
think they should be limited to seating capacity
when they have more capacity available to them
because they only have that number of parking spaces
there based on three people to a car.
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Roman Roos - Let's talk about intensification Walter. When we talk
about intensification on a piece of land, and this has
been a problem Mr. Zamor from day one, and I talk about
intensification I'm not only talking about the building
structure but also blacktop and Walter, h~(~J what
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you're saying and I also know these people are in that
business, they know their business and I have a feeling
when I look at that overall project right now, I feel
that it's a much better use right now than when the
first time I saw it. There's been alot of work,
and alot of thought went into this triangular piece
of land, but I do see right now an intensification of
their portion, but I can live with it, I sure would not
want to see any more blacktop than I see already.
The restaurant is considered as a money making proposition
and you start talking about a banquet room with the
futur.e growing in Chanhassen I think its a good idea.
It might be a little premature. Cross easement parking,
again, if I had a crystal ball I could tell you what's
going to happen to the west, it might not be conducive
to cross easement parking and then you are going to
be pigeon-holed and maybe in that point in time the
choice of the banquet room was wrong, I just feel that
right now there is an intensification, I don't want to
see any more parking on there Walt.
Walt Thompson - I would draw my objections to 11 additional parking
spots if we did not limit the downstairs to
Roman Roos - I don't think it should be limited, if they want to build
it, fine, let them build it. I don't think that has
any bearing
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to be restricted to a certain number of people until
additional parking is available - I don't go along
with that.
Roman Roos - That's by ordinance. That's what we have the ordinances
for.
Charles Novak - I think the market place tends to limit things as
well. People start coming 2 or 3 times a week to
find out if restaurants uphold and they can't find
a place to park so they think twice about coming to
the resuaurant again, so that tends to limit how the
restaurant is used to the capacity of the parking
as well without saying you have to have a certain
number of seats.
- Would another possibility be to put the employee
parking over there and cut that spot down to five.
Would that soften up the entrance.
Roman Roos - Your talking about the part we wiped out?
Yes. I would like their comments.
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I think you're approaching very closely to what would
Charles Novak - be a very workable parking situation.
I guess it is a possibility.
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A motion was made by Tom Droegemueller and seconded by Clark Horn
to adjourn the public hearing. Motion unanimously approved.
Roman Roos - I guess we've had enough time to throw this around
and I would like a motion on the floor and in that
motion I would like to have the staff recommendation
be considered as a part of that motion with whatever
modifications we might want to make to number 1.
We've looked at all the various ways of looking at
it. I'd like to see if we can get this thi.ng moving
along.
If we try to adhere to ordinance, what would be the
proper;way - can we say
Bob Waibel - As far as orciUmance standard would be the building could
be constructed but no commissioning of the banquet
facilities could occur until such time as the amount
of parking needed is constructed. The capacity would
be limited.
Larry Zamor - You can't control that.
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Bob Waibel -
Clark Horn -
Roman Roos
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The key is the cross easement. Until that is available
some limitations would be in order by the letter of the
ordinance.
I feel uncomfortable by having this cross easement
thing as our only out, our only option.
I would entertain a motion at this point in time that
the Planning 'Commission recommend to the city council
that the site plan as presented is accepted with the
allotted parking spaces they have shown, that the banquet
room be part of the total project be self limiting and
that's the reason we feel that we can somewhat deviate
from the ordinance standards. In addition to that I would
like to see the other four items of the staff report
be included and conclusive to the recommendation.
Walter Thompson seconded the motion. Motion unanimously
approved.
A motion was made by Tom Droegemueller and seconded
by Clark Horn that the building moratorium variance
be approved. Motion unanimously approved..!'