PRC 2007 04 24
CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 24, 2007
Chairman Stolar called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Glenn Stolar, Steve Scharfenberg, Thor Smith, Dan Campion, Paula
Atkins and Jeff Daniel
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Tom Kelly
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
PUBLIC PRESENT:
Bob Awick 581 Fox Hill Drive
Karen Lokkesmoe 481 Fox Hill Drive
Jon Lang 640 Carver Beach Road
Paul Otto, Otto Associates 9 W. Division Street, Buffalo
th
Ron Larson 16755 25 Avenue No.
Debbie Lloyd 7302 Laredo Drive
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Stolar: Welcome our guests. We have here all commission members except for Commissioner
Kelly, and our condolences to him and his family on the passing of his mother-in-law. Do we
have a motion to, or any updates or changes to the agenda?
Daniel: I don't know if this might be the appropriate time within the meeting but we may want to
introduce formally our two new commission members. Oh, is that next? I didn't read ahead.
Stolar: There you go.
Scharfenberg: Do you want to add on the dog, the off leash dog area?
Stolar: Yeah. Committee member, or commission member committee reports I guess.
Scharfenberg: Sure.
Stolar: And then under commission member presentations, it's not going to be an official
presentation but I'll give an update on that seminar for the trust for public land. Anything else?
No? Alright. Do I have a motion to approve the agenda?
Scharfenberg: So moved.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Stolar: Moved by Commissioner Scharfenberg.
Daniel: Second.
Stolar: Seconded by Commissioner Daniel.
Scharfenberg moved, Daniel seconded to approve the agenda, amended to include an
update under commission member committee reports on the off leash dog area, and an
update by Chair Stolar on the seminar for the trust for public land. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Daniel moved, Scharfenberg seconded to approve the
verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated
March 27, 2007 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with
a vote of 6 to 0.
APPOINTMENTS OF TOM KELLY AND THOR SMITH TO THREE YEAR
COMMISSION TERMS AND DAN CAMPION TO A TWO YEAR COMMISSION
TERM.
Stolar: Now we will introduce new business, our two new members. I'd like to welcome also
we have Tom Kelly who has been reappointed for another term. Tom's not here with us today.
And then our two new members, Thor Smith and Dan Campion. I want to welcome both of you.
I had the pleasure of riding with you Thor, we know each other from Rotary. From before, and
Dan, nice to meet you and welcome you to the commission.
Campion: Thank you.
Stolar: And I think you'll find that this is a very active commission and as you saw today in the
park tour, we have a lot of beautiful areas here and a lot we can offer our citizens and that's what
we're here to do is do our best and make the most of that. Jeff, would you like to offer any
additional comments?
Daniel: I think you'll really enjoy the next, Dan for you, next 2 years…if you want to renew.
And Thor as well. I've been up for a year and actually it's been a pleasure and an honor to work
with the commission, as well as those with the City of Chanhassen. You really get a good feel
for what type of direction we're heading to from a park and recreation standpoint so I welcome
you aboard. Both of you and look forward to working with you.
Stolar: Paula.
Atkins: Welcome.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Scharfenberg: Same. I echo the comments of Jeff and everybody else. It's a fun group of
people and we look forward to working with the both of you.
Stolar: And we'll welcome Tom back when he returns. And for those of you who don't know,
two members, Tom is the longest serving member now on the commission. He and Jack were
tied and Tom's going to continue, that's going to be great. He'll bring a lot of good history.
LOTUS WOODS: REQUEST FOR SUBDIVISION OF PROPERTY LOCATED SOUTH
OF FOX HILL DRIVE, EAST OF CARVER BEACH ROAD, NORTH OF BIG WOODS
DRIVE AND WEST OF LOTUS LAKE WITH VARIANCES. THE SITE IS ZONED
RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY. APPLICANT: PAUL EIDSNESS.
Hoffman: Thank you Chair Stolar, members of the commission and audience members. We
have probably, I think the majority of the property owners here and the applicant's representative.
The commission toured the site this evening. Everyone's familiar with the property. It's an
application for a preliminary plat to subdivide this 7.6 acres into 11 single family lots and 1
outlot. It's located south of Fox Hill Drive, you know where the location is. It combines 4
separate parcels of land. The current situation is best described as a wood lot with then the, you
have the 4 single family properties that are down on the lake at the present time. As proposed it
combines these parcels and allows for the orderly subdivision of the entire parcel into 11 single
family lots as proposed. You have the plat in front of you. We have a copy here on the desk.
And I apologize, we don't have use of the overhead at this level because if we put it on there then
we're on TV and we can't be on TV at the park commission. I have copies, I think they're
probably out there. The public copy of the agenda over there and I also have copies of the plat if
you want to take a look at it. So we have 8 lots that are located in Block 1 and those would be
marketed as the new home sites for the subdivision. The remaining 3 lots, comprising Block 2
are the existing homes to 3 of the 4 owners that are located on Lotus Lake. Outlot A as it's
proposed on the submission would be set aside at, to preserve a small impact section of the wood
lot that's there. When we look at a subdivision application at the Park and Recreation
Commission meeting, you're taking a look at a couple of different things. The comprehensive
plan and how it speaks to parks and then how it speaks to trails. The parks in this area, the
property is located within a park service area which is 1/2 mile distance. It's located in 2 park
service areas. Carver Beach playground and Carver Beach Park. Carver Beach playground, as
you saw this evening and we talked about, is located at 900 Carver Beach Road. It's just under 2
acres in size. It was the site of the old dance hall on the association property and currently today
it features a public ballfield, a basketball court, and a very nice creative play area that's recently
been updated. Carver Beach Park located just down the hill from there at 6891 Lotus Trail, it's a
6 acre water front park featuring 2 public swimming beaches, a picnic area, nature trail and a
small playground. The nature trail follows the shoreline and is nearly a half mile in length. That
was the nature trail that the Eagle scout project took on last fall to spread the wood chips on and
to rejuvenate. Speaking again directly to trails, with the exception of the nature trail down at
Carver Beach Park and one section of concrete sidewalk that starts at the playground park of
Carver Beach playground, heads west towards Powers Boulevard. Those are the only 2 trail
segments within this general area and that condition or lack of trails is directly attributable to the
age of the area. It's narrow street grid and the right-of-way is very limited if any right-of-way to
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
allow the construction of trails or sidewalks if we wanted to in this area. The major traffic flow
in and out of Carver Beach is on Carver Beach Road itself for both vehicles and pedestrians.
And then we have one last important trail connector. You saw it this evening. It's located at the
terminus of Carver Beach Road, just down from this proposed subdivision and it links
pedestrians of the Carver Beach area up with the Big Woods Boulevard, and then onto Kerber
Pond Park and then eventually south of the downtown area. When reviewing this type of
development, you have the choice of recommending the City Council accept park fee, cash park
fees or land dedication as a condition of approval. The cash park fees required of this application
as submitted would either be $63,800 or $5,800 per lot. However it's staff's recommendation
that the commission seek land dedication of Outlot A in lieu of cash park fees as a means of
preserving some of the wood lot character that currently exists on this site. The location of
Outlot A is at the intersection of Carver Beach Road and Fox Hill Drive. It will serve as a
landmark for future residents of this area and the existing residents that are there, and everybody
would benefit from that public outlot. Staff's request of the applicant was to maximize the size
of this no touch outlot or preservation area. The maximum dedication of land allowed by
ordinance is 1 acre for every 75 people that a new development brings into town. Our
calculation is 3.5 people per home, so you have the 11 lots at, and you do the calculation, you get
.51 acres or 22,361 square feet. So just about a half acre. As currently drawn, Outlot A contains
30,527 square feet but 8,000 of that's a wetlands. Wetlands are not accepted as parkland
dedication. The wetland also has a 16.5 foot protected buffer. That's now gone up to about 20
feet as a buffer, which does not count towards the 22,361 square feet of dedication. And then
additionally the upland area of the outlot is currently split into 3 separate parcels, the largest of
which is located on the corner. However this portion of the outlot is partially subjected to tree
clearing, grading and filling further reducing the no touch preservation node that is desired at this
location. So I think the commission understands the overall recommendation and it's staff
recommendation that the commission recommend the City Council acquire as a condition of
approval for the proposed Lotus Woods subdivision the full dedication of no touch parkland
outlot. That 22,361 square feet. That would be with 11 lots. If this taking reduces the
application by a lot down to 10, that would, that dedication would go down accordingly. And
that taking would at the corner of Carver Beach Road and Fox Hill Road. It's an area general
dimensions of 140 by 150 feet. And that area currently depicted it's located as generally 140 by
86 feet so it needs to be expanded. And then this land dedication would be in lieu of collection
of any cash dedication fees on the subdivision. Be happy to answer questions of the commission
and then look forward to hearing from the applicant or the owners.
Stolar: Okay. Before we invite the audience to speak, does anyone have any questions for Todd
and his presentation. Dan, we'll start with you. Any?
Campion: No.
Scharfenberg: No.
Atkins: No questions.
Daniel: No.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Smith: Yeah, I just have a quick question. When you talk about the upland area there, the lot is
split into 2 separate parcels. What is it?
Hoffman: You're looking at the 3 nodes. It's the largest on the corner and then there's 2 corners
that go outside of the wetland. Little nodes that are separated from the main component. This is
one and then this is one here.
Smith: Okay.
Hoffman: So you're trying to preserve the majority of the area on the corner and you've got these
other 3. Two little spots.
Stolar: Okay. Anything else? If not we'll invite members of the audience who wish to speak.
If you would come up to the podium and state your name and address.
Paul Otto: Thank you. I'm Paul Otto with Otto Associates. Buffalo, Minnesota and I'm here on
behalf of the applicants. I'm the engineer and surveyor on the project and I appreciate the
opportunity to speak on this. As Todd had mentioned we did meet with staff and went through
the proposal with them. Trying to figure out some of the things here that the city was looking for
and one of the big things for us on this was the park dedication. Donating the land. You were
out and saw what the neighborhood looks like. I mean it's a tight neighborhood. It's faced with a
lot of challenges. There's small roads. A lot of topography out on the site, and that makes things
difficult, especially the development area. That's an infill area. And while we understand the
need for preserving the parkland and preserving some of the character of the area, we would like
to kind of go through a couple of points on this just to get your feedback on that and see what
your thoughts are. The first thing that I guess I would like to bring up is that we're looking at the
park dedication for 11 lots. 3 of these lots are existing homes. They are built on, they have been
there for a number of years. Typically the ordinance would give those some credit for being
there and theoretically having paid their dues to the park dedication fund so I would ask you to
consider that in your decision as well as far as the area goes. Because I think that while the parks
are very important, especially for new lots coming in, I mean that's kind of the justification for
the park fee is that we've got new residents moving in. We're taxing these parks and open areas
more than they currently are so, but these 3 homes have been there. They've been there as long
as most of the other homes in the neighborhood so I would like you to just recognize that and
bring that into your decision process. The other thing that I did do upon this is, I misunderstood
the dedication. I was under the understanding that only the wetland wasn't counted and not the
16 1/2 foot buffer around it, so we had calculated that slightly incorrectly so what I did do is, and
I'll pass around one of these for everyone. We came up with somewhat of an alternative to try
and get a bigger area in that corner and preserve that. We also reduced, I should have kept one
of those but, we also reduced the size. We also reduced the size of Lot 1. It was 19,000 square
feet. We pulled 3,000 square feet out of there on the corner of that lot so, to protect that corner,
so what I end up with is 99 feet along Carver Beach Road, and 289 feet along Fox Hill Drive. So
we tried to enlarge that some, keeping in mind that you know, the area that, the purpose of this
park would be open space, preserving the character out there. I can understand the need for a
nice rectangular block for a park that we're going to put playground equipment in or we have a
specific purpose. This park's purpose would be to preserve the character, open space and trees,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
and so I think we're accomplishing that with a slight redesign to our plan. As you saw the
wetland, I mean this is a different type of a wetland. It's a wooded wetland. It isn't a cattail type
wetland so when you look at the wetland, it doesn't look a lot different than the rest of the woods
out in there so, but that calculation is not, that wetland area is not included with the calculation.
So those are kind of the two main points that I wanted to make was you know, that that size of
the wetland. We can meet the 11 lot criteria with this slight redesign but maybe some
consideration for this redesign is the fact that those 3 homes have been there and maybe this is a
good compromise between what staff is recommending and what we're trying to do. If we go
with that larger area, we're going to be pulling another lot out of there. And while economic
means are not something that you're basing your decision on I realize, it does make a difference
in this. I mean there's some real challenges in getting the through street in here that the City is
requiring, and making this economically feasible to even do this at all. And maybe that isn't
something that you're worried about either but there does come a point in time where, well it just
doesn't work. So I would ask for your consideration of that and I'm not sure if any of the
property owners want to speak but I can answer any questions that you have of me.
Stolar: I do have one. It's hard to read here. On Lot 1 then along, what is that, Fox Hill Drive?
What is that length there? It's about 160 then?
Paul Otto: 160 on Fox Hill, yes. Yep. And then 100 foot on Big Woods Drive. Proposed Big
Woods Drive. Or Lotus Woods Drive, I'm sorry.
Hoffman: Well to help with the conversation, can you talk about what's creating for tree loss
would happen in this outlot based on this plan?
Paul Otto: In this plan, it'd be the same as on our first plan. I'm not sure if the commission
members have a copy of the grading plan. What we are doing in the grading plan, we aren't
proposing a major grading in there. What we're trying to do in that outlot is we're trying to run
the numbers on the drainage for the site. The swale that exists there now is not really a very well
defined swale, so it's hard for us to model the numbers as far as how much water is coming out
of that wetland. And so what we wanted to do so that we were sensitive to the ponding and such
in this area, is we wanted to define that swale so that we knew exactly what runoff rates were
coming out of there so you need to go in there, in order to do that we need to go in there and do a
slight modification of the swale to kind of confine it, define it so that we know exactly how
much water's coming out, and that would require removing 3 significant trees. On the tree
replacement plan we have shown that we would be replacing trees back in that area. So we yeah,
we'd be replacing 3 trees back in that area…if there's enough room in there but we aren't
proposing major disturbance in there. I guess my thought would be, we'd have a Bobcat in there
reshaping that swale so that we can define that runoff out of there, and we know exactly what's
coming out of there. Rather than this broad crested swale that we don't know exactly what it's
doing. It's really hard to model something that's really flat so we're just kind of pulling it a little
tighter. Giving it a little bit more of a channel so that we know exactly what's happening.
Scharfenberg: Todd, could you speak to the City's policy about the issue he raises in terms of
existing homes and how that's been handled in the past by the city.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Hoffman: It's an area of discretion for you to make a recommendation of the council. An area
for their discretion as well. You're perfectly within your means if you require dedication for
those 3 lots. There are some instances where they've been credited. If they have paid, these
homes have been there for many years before parkland dedication ordinance was put in place, so
there is no, there was no payment made so you are within your means to go ahead and collect it
now at this time. Either the cash dedication, $5,800 per lot because they're in the midst of a
subdivision application. Included are those 3 lots. Or taking land dedication based on the 3.5
people per house. But the council has in the past given credit for an existing property or an
existing house . In some cases it's a much larger plat. You'd have 1 house on you know 50
acres. 1 house on 40 acres. So this is somewhat of an unusual situation where you have 3 of the
11 houses are existing homes, but again it's a discretionary area.
Paul Otto: I guess to clarify what I was asking for is not to necessarily reduce that number. Just
to allow some leeway in the design of it. Because like I said, we can meet that number with
those in there but we'd like to vary from staff's recommendation with that physical layout of it.
Stolar: Todd, do you have any initial thoughts on this proposed? I know it's new so any initial
thoughts?
Hoffman: Well there is a good reason why we're trying to acquire all of it on the corner. There's
always room for negotiation in these processes. This is a negotiation as a part of the subdivision
process. But let's speak to the reason, the good reason why. When Lot 1 is built on, it's going to
be a back yard. That preservation area will be in somebody's back yard. It's very easy for them
to creep off of their property and to try and clear cut and it just makes it more difficult for us to
manage. If you have all of the area adjacent to Lot 8, you have one property owner to work with.
It becomes very defined on where that one private/public property line is. And you're bound by
street frontage on Carver Beach. Street frontage on Fox Hollow. The wetlands on the east side
and then you have one property line to watch. Because encroachment is one of the most
prevalent infractions that we deal with between public and private ownership, and so what it does
it just puts, it just creates a little bit more like it's a back yard. We could work with the applicant
on that. There are wetland buffer signage that go up. We could put some tree conservation
signage that could go in so it's not to say that you couldn't work with that right up front. You
don't want to fence the property but you could put some signage in to try to mitigate that type of
a situation where people would move into that preservation area.
Daniel: So really what you're talking about Todd is with the elimination of Lot number 8, on the
new handout that Paul just gave us, the management of really Lot number 6 and 7 with the
resident encroachment into the property, into the park area. Dedicated park area is what one of
the issues that you're talking about. I just want to make sure I clarify. Versus having 8, 6, the
angles and which to deal with Lot number 8.
Hoffman: Yeah.
Daniel: So on and so forth.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Hoffman: Yep, if Lot 8 goes away, then it depends on how these other lots are drawn on the
property. They may change. They may not. The grading is also one of our concerns. If you,
probably the best page to look at for, once you acquire this property and then they go to develop,
there's a wall that needs to be built, and if you go to your sheets. It's near the back. 7 shows it?
Or 11. Go to sheet 11 of 12. So that outlot is drawn, it was widened a little bit. Back about 10
feet? So it was 86 feet I think and now it's 99. But on sheet 11 of 12 it shows that the little
clouded area. That's going to be graded in and then some tree clearing in that area, so you start
to see that while you've preserved Outlot A, you're going to clear those trees to allow for this
grading and for the construction of the house on Lot 8. So the wider you make Outlot A on the
Carver Beach Road street frontage, the less of an impact that encroachment has on that outlot.
So they have in fact helped that to about 10 or 13 feet, based on what Mr. Otto handed out this
evening, so it has gotten better.
Paul Otto: And we could probably work with staff to look at a different design of the house or a
little bit different footprint. That house on Lot 8 is one of the larger of any of the houses, and all
the houses in here do meet the required minimum size but Lot 8 was a little bit wider. We put a
little bit wider home on there. So we could probably work with staff to redesign that. Or not do
a split entry walkout. Basically bury that side of the house into the hill some more. Make it as a
look out instead of a walkout and that would eliminate some of that grading. That would be very
helpful.
Daniel: Actually the concern from my perspective is, as you look at the Big Woods addition,
and I definitely remember what the lots were like beforehand in the clear. It's a wide open
neighborhood now and there's very little resemblance of what was there before and this will
happen. That's going to happen with what we see here for the development which certainly I
have no problem with the development. It's the after effect, especially given the, what the
community has been used to over the years. I know there's progress that's going to happen but
certainly any, for what we may have in the outlot, and I understand that we have to go through
the grading process. The absolutely preservation of these trees, or that, this area here, to
whatever we could maximize would be I think extremely beneficial for us and I agree with you
Todd, is the wider we get, the more likely we have to preserve that type of woods. Kind of
create a buffer as you approach that neighborhood. And keep that open space.
Stolar: Steve, anything? Thor?
Daniel: I do have one more thing. Todd, did you mention the wetland area that's not included?
Or cannot be part of the park dedication.
Hoffman: Correct. The outlot, it would not include the wetland or the protected buffer, because
it's protected already so it's not eligible for credit under the park dedication taking.
Daniel: Okay.
Stolar: Were there other comments you wish to make? Would anyone else wish to speak from
the audience?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Karen Lokkesmoe: I'm Karen Lokkesmoe. I live at 581 Fox Hill Drive and first of all I have to
say that I haven't been really involved in a lot of this process so I will admit that I'm not
intimately familiar with all the plans and the details on this. I would just like to encourage you,
as you look at this, that, for having lived in this area for a long time and lived with these woods
and looking at… (There was a tape change at this point.) …like it just got clear cut to a large
extent. And then at this point to have this emphasis be on, oh my goodness. Now we need to
save the trees in this area and it feels a lot like it's on the burden of these 4 people trying to do
something that is feeling like it's the movement of progress and what's going to have to happen in
this neighborhood, that it becomes the burden of these 4 people instead of you know a whole
community. So I just, I just want to throw that out there. I know there's a lot of considerations
and I want the children to have some place to play too, and I understand the necessity for that
and that's been one of our priorities is how we can even look at something without going through
and just cutting everything down, I mean because the trees have been a very important piece in
keeping some of the nature environment has been a very important consideration for all of us.
So as you consider you know how you do this with homes that are long standing in this area, and
wanting our own desire to want to save some of that, I'd like to encourage you to try to put on the
other hat and see you know from our perspective of what that's like and feeling like there isn't
really much of a choice in terms of whether we pay the park fee like anybody else might pay, or
there's this land dedicated. And I think it's important to have land dedicated so I'm not saying
that there isn't. But I also want to encourage you to look at what it looks like from the
homeowner's point of view as you're making all of the considerations. Thank you.
Daniel: Todd was there any, with negotiations on Big Woods, Big Woods on Lotus Lake, did we
just take the money? Took the fees, okay. And what was the decision, I wasn't a part of that
process. That was years before I was here. It's not because there wasn't just enough land at that
point with those lots? I think that was one single lot wasn't it? Or one single property owner?
Hoffman: Yeah, just one street. One sided so. Difficult to take a little chunk and have any
meaning to it.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: This is much more, the fact that this is out on a corner really makes it desirable.
Daniel: Sure.
Stolar: Does anyone else want? Yes.
Debbie Lloyd: Debbie Lloyd. Just to your point about what was done, your question with Big
Woods. I was really not happy with that development, but they obtained, now you have to help
me here. They obtained the permit to do a 50 foot wide road through there but they had to
preserve 10 feet in the back of the lots, the trees had to be preserved.
Hoffman: Tree preservation.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Debbie Lloyd: Right. So they did take into account some tree preservation in that project,
despite the way it looks.
Stolar: Okay, thank you. Did you have any other comments?
Debbie Lloyd: I haven't seen this plan so not at this time.
Stolar: Okay. Anyone else from the audience wish to comment? Okay. We'll bring it back to
the commission then. Are there any additional questions? Paula? No? Okay. So we have a
motion, or recommendation in front of us from the staff which, and Todd correct me if I'm
wrong. It's 140 feet along Carver Beach Road that you're looking at?
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: And then going in 150 feet.
Hoffman: And that's the general desire that we had early on. Again the importance part is that
we acquire the full half an acre which the area that they have shown now, 26,475 is just slightly
over the calculation that we have at 22,361. The buffer is in flux right now at the council level
but it's not a big deal. It might go from 16 1/2 to 20 feet. I guess what I'd like to do is, you can
craft your recommendation, if you want to go with the 145. If you want to let staff negotiate
with the applicants and come up with a reasonable compromise. We don't want to see them lose
a lot. It's not our goal to say you know push Lot 8 out of there because we want you to lose a lot.
We understand, as the commission talked tonight, this is a 4 way split and so economically you
know the return on the investment of giving up what you have out there. You want to maximize
that as well. We also talked about, to the other person's point that talked about we need to look
at this from the landowner's or the owner's perspective. Again that's something I brought up out
there. If this was you or I and we owned this property and we were developing it, you want to
maximize the utility of the property. Maximize the return so we understand that. So if we can
save that lot and, but make some reasonable, I think the compromise of moving out the grading.
You still need to understand with the engineer, with the grade, the swale through there for the
drainage, because what happens when you take these wood lots and you get in and you start
grading, you start doing alterations and it doesn't really matter if the trees are there now. They're
probably not going to remain and if their roots are damaged, they're not going to remain there for
much longer after that, so the important part is the no touch, really to minimize the surface in this
area so when it's all said and done, those trees that we're preserving are still there. You know
we're taking the maximum, which is a small piece in the overall realm of things, .51 acres, or
half an acre. And it doesn't have to be 140 feet. It doesn't have to be, so if the commission can
formulate a recommendation based on this compromise or office staff's recommendation and I
would be comfortable with working with both of those.
Stolar: What is the time line we are facing here to get back to council?
Hoffman: Well it's going to Planning Commission next Tuesday.
Stolar: So we have to have some, some frame of reference for them.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Hoffman: It would be nice. Helpful for the Planning Commission.
Paul Otto: I can speak a little bit on the swale issue. Some developments that occurred since we
submitted the plan with the ponding. The City has a stormwater pond kind of to the south and
west of this project, and they are, as part of their talks and us with this project and our ponding,
they are talking about doing something with that and if that pond's capacity was increased, which
is what they are talking about, that it may not be as critical to define that swale quite as much.
When we first met with staff, that was one of our first questions was could we go with our
stormwater into that pond. They say you know what, that doesn't have any more capacity. We're
having problems as it is so no, you can't go into there. And now they've since looked at it some
more, they've determined that regardless of this development, they probably want to do
something in there so maybe as a, as they're working through that process we can work with
them to maximize the pond that we do have, and not worry so much about the water coming out
of this wetland and defining exactly what we have and increasing the capacity somewhat in that
other pond, that that may be something that we can work with the city engineer on to kind of fine
tune some of that and keep us out of there for that swale. As far as the house goes, we can work
on a redesign for that. That's within our means. We're trying to put all the pieces together and
that's why we were trying to grade in there, but that might be something that might be a way to
compromise with the city and put some capacity in there for that. Thanks.
Hoffman: The swale that we're both talking about is on sheet number 7 of 12. That little swale
in the middle of Outlot A. That would require some grading. It has a denotation there, rip rap.
Daniel: Todd will that be at the corner pond down here, it looks like Lot number 7. Does that
feed into that big reservoir? I mean it's almost like a reservoir. Or will it feed further down
stream from there?
Hoffman: No it, well right now it's showing it's going to feed into the ditch that feeds into the
creek, but that's undecided. It may feed into the pond and then that pond needs to be upgraded in
the future. That's what they were talking about.
Daniel: Lot of activity in that pond.
Stolar: So you're talking about the pond off the property, correct?
Daniel: It's across.
Paul Otto: Across the street.
Stolar: Because I remember in the surface water project they were talking about how that is a
goal potentially to reduce the number of ponds, if you can re-use or enlarge other ones. Better
water management approach. Well does anybody have an inclination to either move on staff's
recommendation? Amend it?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Daniel: I personally feel it might be based off the good, at least the presentation that Paul
presented, brought forth to us, to evaluate the conditions of that lot and also given some other
considerations to the home design, you might want to consider a recommendation of further
discussions of the development. As a thought.
Stolar: Okay. Would you like to make that as a motion? Take a few seconds to think how you'd
phrase it.
Daniel: I can do that.
Stolar: Are there any other comments related to that? I mean, I guess I'm going to ask for a kind
of little consensus. Is this the direction we'd like to go is have staff look into this with the
property owners.
Scharfenberg: I agree. I think there should be some sort of negotiation of compromise with the
staff.
Stolar: Okay, so if you'd like to put forth.
Daniel: I'd like to put forth a motion for staff to consider discussion, or consider discussions or
have discussions further with the development to come up with a negotiated settlement on the
property based off of new changes and possibly other recommendations that could be a good
compromise for both the City as well as the residents.
Stolar: Is there a second?
Scharfenberg: Second.
Stolar: Discussion on this. I'd like to maybe provide staff with guidance on some specific
questions. So if we may add to that. Discussion regarding the redesign of the house on Lot 8 I
believe was. The swale, and understand the implications of the potential changes with the city
engineer. The grading, which I think goes along with the swale, but we're also talking about the
grading for Lot 8. That that might be able to be adjusted with the redesign. We talked about tree
inventory and damage. You made some mention of some of the impacts and to minimize the
difference in tree, or remaining protected trees from staff's recommendation to this new proposed
approach. And then, you talked about signage Todd. I don't remember if that was a part of the
discussion with them or an activity that the City would consider.
Hoffman: It would be a part of our recommendation that we post those tree conservation or
conservation area signs and that would be a condition of approval of the development.
Stolar: Okay. Then I'd like to add that. Those were the points I had written down. Were there
any others?
Scharfenberg: Do we want to say anything about that, the existing 3 homes? Whether or not
that should be in consideration for the.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Daniel: Park dedication?
Scharfenberg: Right.
Stolar: Well, the question I have is, the recommendation that they're putting forth would be in
lieu of park dedication so the consideration of the 3 existing homes then is incorporated in our
recommendation to have this discussion. If I understood what you had said correctly. I don't
know Paul, was that correct? That you're asking us to consider this recommendation and as part
of that consideration knowing that 3 existing homes were a part of this.
Hoffman: Yes. That they wouldn't argue that point.
Stolar: Okay. So I think that's incorporated in this recommendation.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Stolar: Is that correct Paul?
Paul Otto: That's fair.
Stolar: The only thing I would say thought is that we are, are we also saying here, and maybe
this is a separate motion. That we are looking for land preservation in lieu of park dedication
fees as recommended by the staff?
Daniel: Yes.
Stolar: And this is an approach to that land recommendation.
Daniel: Correct.
Stolar: Alright, so we have a recommendation for staff to discuss with the property owners and
engineers their recommended approach towards dedicating land in lieu of park fees in the area
estimated at 22,475 feet in their recommendation, and discussing the specific points that we had
listed. The grading, the swale, the tree inventory, redesign of the house on Lot 8 and signage. Is
that the motion we have in front of us? Is that acceptable Jeff?
Daniel: Correct. Yep.
Stolar: Steve? Acceptable on the second?
Scharfenberg: Yep.
Stolar: Okay. Is there any further discussion on that?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Daniel moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission table the
Lotus Woods subdivision request to allow staff time to discuss with the property owners
and engineers their recommended approach towards dedicating land in lieu of park fees in
an area estimated at 22,475 square feet and discuss the specific points listed by the
commission such as grading, drainage swale, tree inventory, redesign of the house on Lot 8
and signage. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Stolar: Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming out here and Todd obviously, if you
need to bring anything back to us, please do.
Hoffman: I will.
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
2007 EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT.
Stolar: I guess in Nate's absence, Jerry you'll do the presentation on the recreation program
reports.
Ruegemer: I will. Thank you Chair Stolar. We did have the Easter Egg Candy Hunt out at the
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Chan Rec Center Saturday, April 7. We did have 255 kids registered for the event, which is
slightly lower than the previous year. It was an extremely cold morning that day. We did move
the Easter Egg candy hunt in the courtyard area between the Rec Center and one of the pods or
the area of the school to kind of be protected from the wind. So that was one of our options to
kind of get out of the elements and you know for the most part that actually worked out pretty
good. We moved some picnic tables out of the way. Parents who didn't want to brave the cold
could just peer out the rec center glass windows and stay inside and have kind of a warm
approach to the event. And that actually worked out, actually very well in that area. We did
change up the entertainment this year. We took a break from the Splatter Sisters and brought
somebody else in and that was I think very well received. Shawn Sweeney was a very
entertaining person. Got the crowd really involved with that so that was a good change. We did
have volunteers again from the Chaska High School Key Club and they did help out with set-up.
Hanging up pictures. Passing out candy. They did dress up the bunny costumes, which is nice
because I didn't have my hop that morning so that worked out pretty good with that and they
really do add a lot of value to our events as they have in the past, so that worked out really good.
The courtyard area was nice. We really, really tried to you know kind of get people in and out so
to speak kind of from the front elements. We really tried to do things kind of a fast approach.
Distribute the candy. Get it kind of cleaned up. Get the next age group surrounded and
involved. Get the candy passed out and it worked out, it went very well going that way. Did a
lot of things that we gave away some gift certificates, that sort of thing for the parents. We had
some stuff left over from Feb Fest and some other stuff that we kind of collected through the
year so far so we had drawings again for the parents so they kind of felt part of that as well.
Then we had some Mustard Seed gift certificates. Byerly's and some Culver's stuff from the past
so. Recommendations for 2008. It's a great asset to us to just keep and hold the event at the
Chan Rec Center. It really works out well that we could talk to Tom Knowles, our Rec Center
manager. Setting aside the necessary community rooms and other types of conference rooms
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
that you know for kind of the pre-set up and that sort of thing. It works out really good for us.
We can do a lot of stuff ahead of time. It's not so stressful for us in the morning. Again not list
the start times for the candy hunt. That always seems to get people there just for the candy and
not for the entertainment. And certainly we've been talking about possible elimination of the
entertainment component of that and just, it seems the main focus does seem to be on the candy
so you know, we're discussion at this point possibly the elimination of the entertainment, starting
you know at 9:30 or so with the candy portion of that and just kind of letting it roll, but you
know we'll certainly take guidance from the Park and Rec Commission on that. It's in
discussionary kind of purposes right now so if anybody has any thoughts, we'll certainly
entertain that.
Hoffman: Pretty soon we'll just mail it to their house.
Ruegemer: That can happen huh. It worked out well having the registration areas. Check-in
tables kind of both sides and kind of caught people as they came in. I won't say catch, but asked
them if they pre-registered, which many did. I think we had around 90, 92, 95 registrations that
day so we certainly did catch people on their way in and kind of go through that process as
needed so. We always have candy bags and stuff for the kids and that worked out well. A lot of
people don't bring baskets or other types of bags to put the candy in, so that worked out good and
there certainly was some discussion about adding another age category for the coloring contest
for that this year. I think really going ahead, I really do think that we could probably cut back on
some of the candy as well. A lot of kids certainly with less participants, you know we had
around 15,000 pieces of candy again so people were certainly had their fill of candy on that
though. That's something we could take a look at too is kind of cutting back on the amount of
that and our goal is obviously to have you know 15 to 20 pieces of candy per child and we
exceeded that expectation. And then just kind of the, the nuts and bolts. The revenue, expenses
of the event. Certainly all the money that we do expend for the event has been taken in the
annual sponsorship program that we have.
Stolar: Any questions for Jerry?
Atkins: How much does it cost to register?
Ruegemer: $3.00.
Stolar: Whether you pre-register or not, correct? It's $3.00 either way, whether you pre-register.
Ruegemer: Correct.
Stolar: Anyone else comments? Steve? A couple of quick notes. One, the Key Club. I know in
previous years we've recognized them at a meeting. I know we're getting towards the end of the
school year. They were at Halloween and now this and I believe they helped with one other
thing if I'm not mistaken. Or was it just these two? Were they at Feb Fest? No.
Ruegemer: Mainly those two. I think they might have helped out with the Breakfast with Santa
with the Rotary.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Stolar: Sorry. So if doable for the May meeting, it'd be nice to recognize them.
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Stolar: It was always asked about whether we want to charge a different rate at the door versus
pre-registration. A discount for that. I think did we start doing that for Halloween? We did?
Not yet? Regarding your question, entertainment. Another thought there would be, is there like
a high school group that might be interested or some local talent that just wants the exposure as
opposed to paying for a professional entertainer. Something to consider. Paula might be able to
give us some lead.
Atkins: Well I certainly could.
Stolar: And then the final question. This is just kind of an observation. At a lot of these events
we get great sponsorship from Byerly's as far as gifts and I just look at the expense allocations
and I don't see as many gifts from some of the others. So I'm just wondering that's something we
ought to consider, I know price is a consideration because we're under a budget also but
something to consider. Because they're always sponsoring us.
Smith: It was a great event. It was cold.
Stolar: Were you the inside parent or the outside parent?
Smith: I was the outside parent actually. But I thought with regard to the entertainment, I
thought he was good. I think it could have been shorten a touch. Some of the kids got a little
antsy. You know let's just go get some candy.
Ruegemer: I think a lot of people feel that they're going to miss the outside events with the
dragging on of the entertainment but.
th
Stolar: Okay. Should we go to 4 of July celebration?
TH
2007 4 OF JULY CELEBRATION REPORT.
Ruegemer: Thanks again. Kind of an update for the commission just to kind of let you know as
the progress as to what's been going on. Nate's been working very hard on putting a lot of the
events together. As you know, the commission, we did add the, kind of the mini midway so to
speak or with Midwest Rides, we will be having carnival types of an atmosphere this year for the
rdth
3 and the 4 and that is something brand new this year. Conversations probably started oh
probably August or September of last year and looks like, well it's definitely going to happen and
so we'll be adding that component. And then also we did add kind of a skate park competition
rd
on the 3 and that's part of a, kind of a series of skateboarding events that is going to be kind of
going across the Twin Cities area. And the winner of that, it's kind of accumulation of points.
It's kind of the Little League of skateboarding essentially then. They're kind of working towards
the Midwest mainly is going to be having, being held in August of this year so it's kind of
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
accumulation of points and then they'll kind of go to this big, kind of big competition at the end
of the summer so we are a stop on the tour with that and so we're pretty excited actually about
that. It's been kind of one of our goals you know obviously to get some type of an event on the
rd
skate park on the 3, since that is a key component of our, not our city hall but of our downtown
area so we're pretty excited about that. So working a lot these days with food vendors. Midwest
Rides is going to be providing a handful of food vendors kind of up on the northern part of the
property of City Center Park. And then also we'll be retaining food vendors that we've had in the
past and also working with the Chan Rotary. We'll also be having kind of some vendors from,
rd
and local establishments from the Taste of Chanhassen will also be working on the 3 of July as
well so we're kind of working in some local flavor on that as well as kind of handling some other
food needs from our vendors that we've had in the past. We're trying to all kind of mesh all that
together. We should have a good capacity this year and we're looking forward to that event. A
variety of menu items for that. We've been working with the Rotary certainly on the layout and
the beer garden area, food vendor kind of layout. Probably had oh probably 4, 5 meetings so far
with various Rotary members and that kind of a local restaurants that are going to be involved
rdth
with the 3 and the 4 events so, that's going on. And working is scheduled, obviously the
parade will be a big component of that. That will be the same time again this year. Same route.
We're certainly working on kind of the staging area back in the neighborhood areas to increase or
kind of have a better flow. The events of the front isn't hitting the back of the parade so we can
kind of work on the staging area within that kind of the neighborhood groups and streets in that
area so. Hopefully that will improve this year. Just kind of working on really kind of the main
theme is capacity. We've increased the tent size. Increased tables and chairs again. Increased
the pony ring area. Increased the, you know just a lot of areas. We're having a lot more people
at our events. We're certainly trying to be aware of that and really reduce the amount of time
people are in lines, whether it be food, water wars, ponies. You know hopefully the rides will
have you know great capacity in getting people in and out so, it's really kind of been one of our
themes certainly this year as well as in the future. You know a lot of the music entertainment has
already been booked many, many months ago. The fireworks contract is in place with that so, a
lot of the things are in place already. It's just kind of a matter of keeping on top of those
contracts and details. And there'll be many more details from this point forward but Nate did
kind of put together kind of a schedule of events. Nate's had a lot of conversations with the
Chanhassen Chamber as it relates to the Business Fair. And a lot of different areas going up and
rdth
down kind of the page here so we do have a lot of events scheduled for the 3 and the 4 and
looking forward to another great event so. We will be having sign up sheets come down the line,
probably May or June and certainly would love to have all the commissioners involved in the
event itself. Any questions?
Atkins: Do you think that, are you trying to get people to stay in town then for the carnival
rides? Is that going to be open all day?
Ruegemer: Yep.
Atkins: And during the parade?
Ruegemer: (Yes). One component too that's not on here, there's been talk about having kind of
a battle of the bands under the big tent. Kind of maximizing the rental of that and then with the
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
donation of a food shelf type of item kind of will be the admission so it's kind of a food drive so
to speak while using the existing stage from the night before and the tent.
Atkins: So right after the parade maybe or something?
Ruegemer: I believe it is going to be after the parade, yep.
Atkins: And I do think the, our theater group wants to do a scene from our summer show of
Tom Sawyer. We'll have a parade entry and then we would like to perform maybe before. I
don't know which would be the best time but I would talk to Karen about that or Nate.
Ruegemer: Talk to Nate. Yep. …way back in the day when I first started and Todd designed
many of the t-shirts in the late 80's, early 90's and it was more the kind of the caricaturist type of
an artist. I've had 2 or 3 conversations with him already and basically we have to get over to
Hopkins where his shop is and then kind of go through that. We'd kind of like to make it kind of
fun again. More so than the last.
Atkins: Yeah. That eagle seemed…kind of old.
Ruegemer: …cookie cutter type of design. And I'm not trying to you know make light of or
make fun of what we had in the past. You think back to some of the old shirts that we've had,
they were kind of fun and kind of a fun, festive design so.
Atkins: Well, and they were, they seemed to be getting a little bit the same more or less. They
used to be different. A different color every year and a different logo and all different, always
different and they got to be collector's items you know.
Campion: …I remember he did some stuff for our football team. Caricatures and all that. It was
good.
Ruegemer: Another endorsement. Yeah, he always was a fun guy to work with and always had
kind of fun, unique designs so.
th
Hoffman: We'll work him into the 25 next year as well.
Stolar: The what?
thth
Hoffman: 24 anniversary of the 4 of July celebration and we do have all 25, 24, 23 shirts now.
24. 25.
Scharfenberg: Jerry with that, the skateboard competition. How many people are you
anticipating would be participating in something like that?
Ruegemer: You know it's really hard to say. I mean obviously we have a lot of kids that are
using the skate park and really the beauty part of it is, is that you can register that day. So really
it's going to be very simple and it's going to be really kind of a spontaneity type of thing that
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
you're out there using the park. Okay, come on in. It's going to be I think it's going to be $5.00
for an entry fee. You could register that day. It's hard to gauge how much because this is the
first year they're doing it as well. You know would 30, 40, 50 people be great? Absolutely.
Scharfenberg: I was thinking in terms of, since this is a competition throughout, how many
people would be coming here to compete in something like that? Do they know or they just
don't have any idea?
Ruegemer: I don't think they know at this point. And there is, that certainly is definitely a
possibility of people traveling to Chan that day and you know be a fun area. One thing that's
really kind of a nice feature of that too is that our skate park, or skateboard camp is 2 weeks after
th
the 4 so we certainly can get more promotion during that event as well, so it's kind of helping us
twice.
Smith: What would there be prizes for different age categories or?
Ruegemer: Yep. Yeah, they'll separate out the kids by age and ability so, it's going to be a fun
event.
Atkins: It's a great idea.
Scharfenberg: So with that, the rides and that then, like last year they had the blow-up stuff. I
take it that's not coming back this year.
Ruegemer: That won't happen.
Scharfenberg: Okay. And when you say rides, so we're talking like Tilt-a-Whirl, all of that
stuff? Okay.
Stolar: What about for little kids? One or two for little kids also?
Ruegemer: There will be some component of that as well. I want to say the numbers like 3 to 4
types of ride for that type of area.
Hoffman: It's not a huge midway. And then we're maintaining what we have which is generally
for smaller kids. And then we're adding this component to create a longer lasting atmosphere for
the tweens. The 8 to 10, 10, 12, 14, 16 year olds so they've got something to do in town during
the event.
Stolar: Okay. Next item, administrative items.
ADMINISTRATIVE: COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE, PARK AND TRAIL
SECTION.
Hoffman: The City is engaged in the update of our comprehensive plan for 2008 as mandated by
the Met Council. To complete the park and recreation section we have retained the services of
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
one of our parks planning consultant, Hoisington-Koegler Group will be working with us. Mr.
Paul Page and Ms. Jill Latham on the project. If you look at the work program, it has the
inventory analysis. Gathering of input. Development of the plan. Review and update park
classifications and standards. Develop system objectives and policies. And then the last item,
identify key priority projects and implementation. That's why we're doing this. We'd like to set
a date for the commission as a working meeting with the Park and Recreation Commission to
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meet with the professional service provider and staff and the public on Tuesday, May 8 to kick
this process off. Suggesting 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. that evening. We'll most likely meet in the
Fountain Conference room in this building and just wanted to check calendars to make sure that
works for the majority of the commission members. If it's not a good date we can certainly
select another date.
Scharfenberg: What was the date again?
Atkins: What was the date?
th
Hoffman: I think it's Tuesday, is that May 8? Is that right?
th
Stolar: May 8 is a Tuesday. But I won't be here.
Hoffman: It's our off Tuesday. And if that does not work I would suggest the following
th
Tuesday so we would go on the 15.
Scharfenberg: And what time did you say Todd?
Hoffman: 7:00 to 9:00 for a 2 hour block of time.
Scharfenberg: For me it just, we've got games on Tuesday nights so I don't know what time we
play that night.
Hoffman: If a Thursday works better. It's not locked into Tuesday. Traditionally the first day
we go to is always, so try to keep your second Tuesday open throughout the year for work
sessions. You meet the fourth Tuesday. That's the first day we go to. If it doesn't work for
thth
people then we can take a look at another date. Thursday, May 10. Thursday the 17.
thth
Atkins: Tuesday, May 8 is fine for me. I have a board meeting that night so 15 is good for
me.
Stolar: Why don't we do this. Can we all send Todd an email. Say pick 2 or 3 days in May that
work for you on a Tuesday or Thursday, how's that?
Hoffman: Yep, works good.
Stolar: Okay. And you'll just pick the one that has the most common response.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Hoffman: Yeah. Very exciting process. The thing to look forward to after that is the two open
houses and we encourage the commission to be there that evening. They'll both be in June. I
think they're coming up back to back and that's the time when we get to hear the feedback and all
divisions, all subject matter will be represented at those open houses. Housing. Land use.
Roads. Transportation. Wetlands. Wildlife. Parks and recreation. And so you'll see a cross
section of people there on those two evenings and you're welcome to attend and to listen to that
feedback and gather that feedback.
Daniel: Maybe the announcement will be sent with the email.
Hoffman: You'll hear a lot more here in the near future. I believe one of the meetings will be at
the library and then one at the rec center. Those two weekdays.
Stolar: Any questions? No? For reference purposes do we, does the City have the current
comprehensive plan on it's web site?
Hoffman: Yes.
Stolar: So if you wanted to review. I know you sent, we had it sent out to us a while ago. Way
back when you had sent it out but if you wanted to look at it or you had an update of what these
are.
Hoffman: And as we're going into the open house, we'll be setting up existing conditions so
people can come in and they can say okay, we want to talk about the… Where do we want to
go? What's left? What trails are left? What parks are left? What missing components do we
have and that's the board we'll start marking up with the citizens that are walking in and
discussing with us what they want to see in their park system.
Stolar: Okay.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Stolar: We had an off leash dog area committee. It's since been disbanded but we actually had
action today and so Steve and Jeff, if you want to comment on what happened today.
Scharfenberg: Well today the Carver County Board took up our resolution to pass, or adopt an
agreement between the City of Chanhassen, City of Shorewood and Carver County for an off
leash dog area at Lake Minnewashta Park. This is something that off leash dog area that this
commission has been working on since approximately 2004. We, just as kind of a historical
background for those members that weren't here, we had done a study of our parks trying to look
at putting an off leash dog area within one of our existing parks and just didn't see that we had
the feasibility of doing that. We had money to do that but not necessarily an area that was a park
that we thought that that would really work. We had looked at Lake Ann. Kind of the wooded
area off to the, what would be the west of the, one of the parking areas and that but we weren't
able to come up with anything. But then in conversations with Carver County Parks, we had
learned that in their comprehensive plan at Lake Minnewashta they had a 17 acre area that they
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
had future plans for an off leash dog area. But given the budgetary constraints of the county did
not necessarily have the finances to get that up and running. So we had conversations with them
about putting in our capital improvement plan, money towards that park and dedicated $30,000
in our CIP for 2007 for that off leash dog area. And in addition the City of Shorewood in
conjunction with a group of people.
Stolar: The Parks Foundation.
Scharfenberg: The Parks Foundation of Shorewood dedicated 5 with a matching 5 from the City
of Shorewood, so another $10,000. So $40,000 to put for the county to use in an agreement with
Shorewood, Chanhassen and the County to put in things such as signage, parking lot, fencing,
things of that nature and there's a building out there that they were going to have to move or tear
down. So today the County took up that resolution and approval of that agreement and Glenn
and Jeff and myself all were there with Marty.
Stolar: Marty Walsh.
Scharfenberg: Marty Walsh, and we spoke in favor of the resolution and it unanimously passed
by the Board and they've already been, according to Marty, they've been doing some initial work
out there already. They're going to be doing some work this spring. It will probably tail off
maybe a little bit this summer, but they'll have some of their summer staff work, doing a little bit
of work and then in the fall probably take that back up again and work with hopefully an
opening, according to Marty, sometime in early 2008. That's kind of what they're shooting for
so. So for this commission it was something to see that we took from the beginning all the way
to the end and to see that kind of end up was neat.
Daniel: Really the only thing I can add is the appreciation for not only this commission but also
the, for Carver County Commission to finally move ahead with this. The light's at the end of the
tunnel. Actually the door's practically opening now, so it will be a nice feature for us to
advertise within the city and I think it will get tremendous use. Been an advocate since I even
applied for this commission and I'm glad to see that finally it's come to a fruition.
Stolar: Great, and thanks to Jack and Anne for serving on the committee for a while.
Hoffman: Yeah, they just missed it.
Scharfenberg: If somebody has Anne's email, Todd probably does, if you'd send her an email to
let her know that.
Stolar: You could actually send her the agenda item too. It's in that PDF file.
Hoffman: Thank you all for going. Appreciate your getting down to the County Board to
participate in that and it did really showed their connection that you're making with others in that
collaboration and I think it would be well served with that relationship in the future.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Stolar: Commissioner Workman mentioned that, he said the word collaboration is over used but
in this example we've got somebody who's not even in Carver County collaborating with us to
build something. It's got to be the right thing to do so it was great. Any questions from our new
members on this?
Smith: No.
Campion: No.
Hoffman: We also, excuse me. They called to ask and inquire about our Caterpillar and we have
offered to provide the piece of machinery and our operator so they'll be out there doing some
work so again we're just continuing in that. They don't own a Caterpillar but we do so we'll go
out there and do some work with the operator.
Stolar: Excellent. That just you know makes it, like we talked about when putting together the
playground. When you get the neighborhood involved, it just adds a connection. When we're
helping build it, it just adds a connection to it. So that's great. Not to keep us too late. Next
item.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Stolar: I did attend, Todd sent out a note that there was this seminar going on done by the Trust
for Public Lands which is a group that helps local organizations find ways to get funding for
preserving open space, and so they've worked with Washington and Dakota counties in their
recent referendum. No, I think they worked with Eden Prairie on one. I don't believe they
worked with Plymouth on their's. I'm not, I can't remember.
Hoffman: They actually started working with us in our 1996 referendum as well.
Stolar: Oh okay. Oh, that's right. They did say that. I think the same woman in Minnesota.
Hoffman: …they didn't finish the project with us but they started it.
Stolar: Yep. And part of what they do, they do a lot of advisement. They help coach you and
this seminar talked about different messages you can use in the ballot initiative and things like
that. And they showed I think it was the Washington County one that got soundly defeated and
they showed the wording of that which was all legalese and you didn't even understand what you
were voting for. And then they showed the one that passed by 60 to 40, much simpler. You
know the benefit's right up front, and so there were a lot of staff people from various
governmental entities related to parks and open space there. In fact I don't think there were any
other citizen commissions, except for me. It was very interesting. They have a web site out
there. I'll send the link out. Certainly in our area, our biggest concern is Seminary Fen as we've
talked about in previous meetings and preserving it. And then Marty was there, I sat next to him
at the meeting, and he and I have talked about it, talked briefly about maybe there's something to
start working on from a Carver County perspective, similar to Washington and Dakota and he's
already started the talks and expressed him my interest in helping if he wants to start a citizens
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
committee. A couple key things. He's got to start with the citizens. There's got to be a citizens
group. Governmental agencies don't go very far in these things. You've got to be as a citizen
group bringing it forward. And I think the other thing they brought out, which was very
interesting, matching grants are a key to the success of this and so I think it was Dakota, when all
was said and done, they got a 4 to 1 matching grant. And the bulk of the matching grants come
from the state. They don't come from the federal government. In fact if you look at the
percentages of spending on open space preservation, local governments are by far the number
one source. By far. It was like, I think it was $600 million for local governments to like $60
million from the federal government for local preservations. Obviously the federal government
does their federal land, but they don't give a lot to local preservations. But the States were a
good chunk at, I think it was in the 200's. So you do this referendum and for certain things you
can get state matching grants. So they concluded with talking about the proposal for the State
income tax increase that's, there's an amendment going on right now that's being discussed. I
think some action happened today but I didn't catch it. What was on the radio. To dedicate a
new sales tax and have that dedicated to parks and open space, as well as the arts was thrown in
on that. And this is, before the arts piece came in, and it was a collaboration of some wildlife
organizations like Pheasants Forever and Ducks Unlimited, as well as the Trust for Public Lands.
So they talked about how they work a lot with those types of organizations to set aside lands.
Daniel: I actually do believe that did not make it out of committee.
Stolar: That's what I thought I heard.
Daniel: Yeah.
Stolar: And I know there's a lot of controversy about it. The wildlife organizations, when the
arts were put in starting backing away on their support on it because they want it dedicated just
for preserving land. Anyway, that's just something that, it was a very interesting thing I think
from a, for us again as we start looking at Seminary Fen. I didn't get a chance to ask him the
question about the limits we have with Seminary Fen where, because it wasn't valued or assessed
at the level that they were selling, we couldn't get the matching grants. Was that what happened?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Stolar: Part of it.
Hoffman: The difficulty with the appraised value versus what they could get out of the DNR.
Stolar: Okay. So something to think about. I think as we've visited it at what 3 months ago, or
it might have been longer, we visited Seminary Fen. Something to think about and I might
attend another one of their seminars they have later on.
Hoffman: Thanks Glenn for going. Appreciate it.
Stolar: And I'll bring my materials at the next meeting. I forgot to bring them this meeting but,
I'll also send the web site to everybody. Alright, anything else?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET:
Stolar: Administrative packet, any questions?
th
Hoffman: Please register or attend the Senior Center 15 Anniversary events. That's the first
page. You're welcome as guests. Probably Senior Commission at any of those events so please
either just show up or give us a call.
Scharfenberg: So we can show up on Monday for the breakfast if we haven't registered?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Atkins: Especially go to the history talk that my dad's giving. He's really nervous.
Hoffman: He'll do great.
Atkins: I know he will.
Stolar: And was Susan, was going to be looking for people to help with the, to serve on the May
rd
23.
Hoffman: Yep. To serve but we switched from barbequing to having it catered from
Mackenthun's, so you can come help serve and host but there's no more barbequing detail.
Daniel: Now what are you going to do?
Hoffman: We didn't want the chicken burned or raw.
Stolar: If there are no more questions, can I have a motion for adjournment.
Scharfenberg: Oh I've got, I'm sorry. Just a couple comments. First of all, my pleasure in
reading the Connection to staff for the Twilight Music Series for increasing the evening this year.
That looks great. Looks like a good line-up. My second comment was, I didn't see anything in
here about farmer's market. Is the farmer's market back this year?
Ruegemer: It is. Yeah, had a conversation with Jim Bledsoe. The Chair. We're meeting this
afternoon and they are getting all their insurance information together and it is scheduled to start
th
I think the first Saturday in June, which I think was the 8. And then going to the last Saturday
rd
in October which is the 23-ish. Something like that. So yeah, it is happening.
Scharfenberg: Have they had any increase in vendors or?
Ruegemer: I want to say it's somewhere in that same range.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - April 24, 2007
Hoffman: They need support from the community to really get it, they need to make the extra
push and get it to grow because it's on, right on the fence. He's doing a great job. Should be
good reason to have a wonderful farmers market in town but it's just like a house that's been on
the market too long, it becomes stale and there's not that energy behind it so, any help you can
get. Branch out. Talk to your neighbors. Talk to other vendors. When you go to other farmers
markets say hey, you should consider Chanhassen so, some grass roots help would really assist
in that.
Scharfenberg: And one last thing. Any issues with the skate park so far since it's been opened?
Hoffman: Other than the, it really comes always with a real bang at the beginning of the season.
We have to re-train the skateboarders. Tonight chasing them out of this park. Reminding them
if they don't stay out of this park, they're going to close down that one. The attendant should be
starting.
Ruegemer: Early May.
Hoffman: Early May, so. Lots of crowds. Lots of kids in the parking lot and it does draw.
When you talk about where will they come from? The kids, the group I just talked to, I always
ask them where they're from. Hopkins. Burnsville. They come from a long ways.
Stolar: Any other? Alright. Can I have a motion to adjourn?
Scharfenberg moved, Atkins seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission
meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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