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PC 1994 09 21CHANI-IASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 21, 1994 Chairman Scott called the meeting to order at 7:30 p_m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Joe Scott, Jeff Fannakes, Ron Nulfing and Matt Ledvina MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Harbe~, Nancy Mancino and Ladd Conrad STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Planning Director, lohn Rask, Planner I; and Sill Kimsal, Forestry Intern ADOPT RESOL~ON FINDING MODIFIED PLAN FOR TAX INCREMENT FINANCING DISTRICT NO. 2-1 CONSISTENT WITH TI:IF. PLANS FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE CITY OF CHANHASSEN. Scott: What that really ~ is that we've ~ a tax increment district to fund by the use of selling bonds a roadway and scrme other public i .reprovers in the area that's near the new elernen~ school, which is that thin~ that's being built on Highway 5. So staff report please. Kate Annen~on presented the staff report on this item. Scott: I think perhaps the one question would be, why are we, I mean we've already seen this and the reason why we're doing this is so that we can make stue that we have enough bonding capability to cover what we believe the expenditures to be for the i ,mprovements, land acquisition and adwinistrative costs. We may or may not sell that many bonds but we're just trying to cover ourselves on the high side. Is that in essence what we're doing here? Aan~nson: That's correct. Scott: Okay. Co--ts, questions from commissioner~ Ledvina: Your opening or the second paragraph says, the only reason this itrm is before you is that our bonding attorney requires the city to modify the plan by documenting that the projects are moving ahead and the city is selling bonds to pay for them. What arc the modifications? I guess L Aancnson: Well thc thing that wc're approving is to include it as part of thc tax increment district is...we're calling a recreation center. Scott: Oh, we're going to own it too? Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: As part of the school. Aanenson: Right, In that package. And pan of that we also included the co--on for th frontage road that will access it. Ledvina: Okay, that's fine. Farmakes: But that's the gym and pool that you're talking about, Ledvina: No. No pool. Scott: No, no. This is basketball courts, racquetball courts, meeting moms. Yeah, so it's. No ice. No pool, no ice. Okay. Any other questions? Ledvina: Was that essentially the modification? Aanenson: That was the modification. Ledvina: And the attorney, this is driven by the attorney, is that correct? Aanenson: ...it was in the original plan... Ledvina: That's fine, thanks. Scott: Any other questions or comments? Okay. Can I have a motion please? Ledvina: I would move that the Planning Cornmisiion, are we adopting this resolution? Ledvina: Okay. I would move that the Planning Commi~ion adopt Resolution No. 94-3 finding the modification to the tax increment financing district No. 2-1 and 2-2 and development district No. 2 are consistent with the City of Chanhassen's Comt~hensive Plato Scott: Can I have a second please? Farmakes: Second. Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Scott: It's been moved and seconded that we adopt this resolution. Is there any discussion? Ledvina moved, Farmakes seconded that the Planning CommissJ'on adopt Resolution ~4-3 (Attachment ~2) finding the modification to Tax Increment Financing District No. 2-1 and 2-2; and Development District No. 2 are consistent with the City of Clmnhn~.n's Comprehensive Plan. All voted in favor and the motion carried. REVIEW SIGNAGE FOR THF. CHANHA,qSF. N RETAIl, SITE~ PERKINS AND TACO BELL. Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Farmakes: I have some questions. I missed the previous meeting when this cam~ up. On the third page of the packet. There's a s~hm-~mtic elevation for the right side, left side elevations. Also front and rear. Typically these buildings have large stripes on them. I don't sec that indicated. Aanenson: We did ask them to bring a color rendm'ing showing that...Are you talking about Perkins7 Farmakes: No. I'm talking about Taco Bell. Also the colorations. I've seen some of the new Taco Bell stuff that's Idnd of a purple and magenta and I'm seeing this as yellow and red. Have the colors been specified in the original one or is this part of the PUD? Aanenson: It's part of, I don't believe we... Don Palmquist: Good evening. My name is Don Palmquist with Ryan Companies. I sm representing this development I don't know that I can specifically answer your question regarding thc color but I can answer questions regarding which of the faces will contain the signagc on thc Taco Bell parcel What's shown in your pack~ is signage on four faces. They have agreed to reduce that to two faces... They will be showing signs on the north and east faces of that building... Farmakes: So that would be the right side elevation and the. Don Palmquist: Thc right side and the front side. We will not have signage on thc rear or the left side. Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Farmakes: Do you have a schematic of some sort with the striping and how you are planning on painting the paint and...stucco. Don Palmquistz I don't have color renderings. I guess I wasn't aware that that was a requirement for this evening. The only elevations I would have available would be the full sized blue line drawings of the reductions that you have... Farmakes: The reason I bring it up is because we've had discussions in regards to the typical addition to signage on franchises where the large bs_nning of striped colors have been added to the facia to these buildings and there's been some discussion in regards to the Highway 5 issuc and I think in regards to signage. Whether or not these constitute si~ge additions or whether or not it's architecture. Typically examples are Amoco, Holiday. To a lesser extent say Target where they I tbinir substituted tile for the paint stripe or plexiglass... Some of the other Taco Bells I've seen in towll have large striping additions and I would iikg to find out what their intentions are with that. Don Palmq~ Well...answer that question. My understanding though is that the ~ used on the wall... Farmakes: So it's...stucco that's being described then? It covers the entire, except for the back of the signage itself. Aanenson: Yeah. There is stucco... Scott: Are you _talking about the pre-fab...area here? Farmakes: Yeah. Typically... Scott: How do we proceed on that? Can we put a condition in and move it along or7 Aanenson: ...these colors were consistent with the colors that were... Farmakes: Okay, so if this thing is erect~ and they add these stripings that are typically part of Taco Bell, is that a fielder's choice on the part of the developer or is this something that then is not allowed under the PUD7 In other words, is this signage that's being proposed? Aanenson: Right. This is the signage... Farmakes: So there is no striping? Planning Commission Meeting - Septemlxu' 21, 1994 Aanenson: Correct. Scott: Any other questions or comments? Ledvina: I had one question now. I know that we're reviewing the Per_k/ns and Taco Bell In the staff report it says one free standing pole sign shall be permitmt for Target. You're just talking about the Target PUD? You're not. Aanenson: Yeah. This PUD...lots. The Target and the three ouflots. One... L~lvina: Okay, these are the other bnildings, right? Aanenson: Right. Ledvina: Okay. Aanenson: So there's au unicnown one that... Ledvina: So there's no more Target, there will be no more Target signage? Aanenson: Correct. Ledvina: Okay. And then the rock faced CMU. Could you describe that a little bit or what is that type of material? I guess I'm not fiuniliar with that... Farmakes: That was something else. That was a fancy word for stucco. Ledvina: Okay. Is this another fancy word for stucco, CMU? Don Palmquist: I'm not sure what the acronym stands for. Ledvina: Do you know? Scott: Would that be, when I think of rock face, instead of putting brick on, it's some sort of Ledvina: I don't know. I don't know what that is. I mean rocldace CMU, I have no idea. Aanenson: It's our understanding that it will be... l:q~nning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ledvina: Similar mind-'rial to the Target sign? I mean the pylon. Aanenson: Yes. Ledvinm Okay. So that was the intent that this matedal is tying into the other m._teriaL Don Palmquist: ...I'm not sure what that really stands for. Ledvina: Okay. Well I think we should, if that's the intent, then I think we should say that since nobody knows what this stuff ia Scott: Put that in as a condition? Ledvina: Yeah. Well how do we say that7 Thc base of the signagc shall be consistent with, the base material shall be consistent with the other signage with the PUD. Is that adequate7 Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: Okay. Scott: Okay, any other7 Ledvina: Well I guess just to talk about Jeff's concern as it relates to the band. The color band and things like that. Farmakes: She addressed that. Ledvina: Okay. I guess you know whether that represents signage or not, I don't know. Farmakes: I'm still wrestling with that but since I wasn't he~ for the provious meetings I question whether or not it... Ledvina: So the bands are not going to be there? The color bands are not on this building? Farmakes: They're not part of the elevations that were submitted. Ledvina: Okay. Farmakes: Is Perkins. Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Aanenson: They have... Farmakes: Okay. Do they also have, are we talking backlit awnings? I believe on the Perkins over in Minnetonic~ they have backlit awnings where Perkins is on the awnings itself. Backlit at night and I'm wondering if that's pan of this. Don Palmquist: No, that is not part of what they're contemplating. Fanmkes: On your sign the coloration is shown like an off cream. Is that white? Don Pahnquist: On the pylon sign? Farmakes: Yeah, I'm looking at both the pylon and monnmen_ t. It appears to be the same color. I'm just wondering is that white flex or is that a cream or what is it7 Don Palrnquist: It's more of a cream as opposed to a white. Fannakes: Is the third restaurant in that PUD agreement fast food or sit down? Kate Aanenson's answer was not picked up on the tape. Farmakes: Can be. There was a cap on two? Aanenson: Two fast foods... Scott: With the issue that we had about aligning the ingress and egress point into the three restaurant area, was that resolved? Did you see plans that lined it up with the T~rget? Ledvina: It's right here. Sco~ Well I'm looidng at that and I was going. Ledvina: Does that depict the parking and the enmmce arrang~t or is it different from that? ...that issue is resolved, okay. Scott: Okay, fine. Ledvina: I don't want to complicate. Okay, I would move that the Planning Commission recommend approval of signage package for the Chanluu~en Retail Center as presented by the applicant with the conditions specified as part of the PUD and an additional condition Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 identifying that the base matefiah of the signage shall be cons/stent with other monument and pylon signs within thc PUD. Scot~ Is there a second? Farmakes: Second. Scott: It's been moved and seconded that we adopt the staff z~xmm~lation. Now is there any discussion? Ledvina moved, Farmakes seconded that the Planning Committal'on reco~d approval of the signage package for the Chanhassen Retail Center as presented by the applicant with the conditions specified as part of the PUD and an additional condition identifying that the base materials of the signage shall be consistent with other monument and pylon signs within the PUD. AH voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A RECREATIONAL BEACHLOT FOR MINNEWASHTA LANDINGS ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF~ AND LOCATED AT THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF UIGHWAY 7 AND MINNEWASHTA PARKWAY~ KENNETH DURR. Public Present: Npjne Address Gary Carlson 3831 West 62nd Street John Rask presented the staff report on this item. Scott: Okay. When we have beachlots in ~ront of us, probably the number one concern that we hear is obviously additional traffic on the lake. ~ust for purposes of public record, this is not a landing so these boats will not be, I don't have one so I don't know what...~t they have to be launched from the public launch facility on Lake Minnewash~ They will not be taken out there and the only, the total number of boats that will be allowed, what 3 boats, 1 sailboat overnight Aanenson: If you want more dining the day and tie them off... Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Scott: Right. So all the people who have lots on the lake are ~y free to own boats but they're going to have to take them to the landing and put them on and off so. If there is any concern about additional traffic on the loire_., it looks like they're only going to be able to put 4 more boats on the lake. Or w~er anybody would care to, so the big factors is not necessarily this conditional use permit. The big facl~ is how many people choose to use the boat landing on a given day, whether or not they live on the lake. Okay. Does the applicant wish to make any comng~ts? You're not obligal~d to do so. If we have some questions, okay. Questions or co~ts from anybody from the commission? Farmakes: Can you tell me why the city considers ~s, but why would the city prohibit shelters? Aanenson: Well we looked at that and this being...I think at that _time_ there was concern about garages. People storing boats on the ~. Staring docks. Staring snowmobiles. Swring their boats on trailers on the beachlot. I think that was... Fannakes: When we doeine structure or shelter, or we define them differently? In other words, ff it's a roof but no walls, is that a shelter? And a strucum~ is with walls or what is7 Aanenson: ...a structure. Farrnakes: Okay, well typically like a 50 foot gazebo is more like a landscape element where you know maybe it's a couple sitting there or 3 or 4 people. It's not like a picnic shelter or something like that. Is there a way to, it's really an enhan~t. What I see here is that we can appwve the biff...but we can't approve the gazebo so. Aanenson: ...we looked at that as trying to find a reasonable...because the way our ordinance reads as far as slrucmr~... Famvflces: Does this have potential as a variance? Kate Aanenson's answer could not be heard on the tape. Kenneth Durr: We can conslruct Farmakes: What kind of room have you got? Nutting: If the structure has to be removed af~ Labor Day, is it therefore a smicttrre? Is it. Kate Aanenson's answer could not be heard on the tape. Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 199~ Farmakes: Okay. This would be beyond the 75 foot setback. It looks like 100. It could be over 100 feet back. Ledvina: If we have a lot on the city, I mean if I own a lot in the city, I can't just put a garage on iL Is that right? Aanenson: You can have an accesso~ ~... Ledvina: Right. But I ~ the basic requirement is there. You can't have an accessory structure without a primary stmcttn'e or a residence. Which I think is an excellent...right. I mcan certainly it's a reasonable... Scott: Probably the variance process would be the appropriate way to deal with that. Farmakes: I would be open to that. Aanenson: Or amending the code. Sc. otc Yeah, I think we can do that. We don't need to make a motion but I think that that would make sense furtuer define suuctmv~ versus shelter and use the suucttn~ would be something that's with walls and shelter is something that's without. This is a public heating. Is there anyone who would like to speak at the public hearing? Can I have a motion to ~ the public hearing please? Ledvina moved, Farmake9 seconded to open the public hearing. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried. The public heating was opened. Scott: The public hearing is not open. If anybody wo~ld like to speak, please feel free to step up. Give us your name and your address and we'd ~ to hear what's on your mind. Gary Carlson: Good evening. My name is Gary Carlson and I usually come and speak on any matters that concern our beachlot which is the next one to the south. I don't know, is that park illustrated on this plan? Scott: Well we know that you have this 50 foot reservation that's just on thc side, sure. Gary Carlson: Yeah. There's a 50 foot reservation. And as far as the gazebo item is, I've seen structures go up in the city where there's no principle structure. I'm talking about on Cathcart Park, all of a sudden somebody moved in another building on there and they called it an ice warming house. We've been watching this old house slowly fait down. They try 10 Planning Commission Meeting - Sepmnber 21, 1994 and paint it up and they try and paint it up each year but it's still a falling down house that all of us neighbors have to look at and somehow that goes right around all these ordinances. But being on a beachlot myself I know what lighming and rain and when you have your family down on the dock situation and there's no place for safety for them to go. And for Mr. Durr not to be able to build, not nccess~y build but to have the finest beachlot on, as far as I can see with this plan, and the size of it and his landscaping, it will be the finest beachlot on the lake. Why it cannot have a gazebo is beyond me. There's a few too many rules that don't make sense and you gentlemen are here to just say, aye. Let's pass it and then let the Council solve it. You don't have to follow every little ordinance that happens to be up here because there's a lot of them on the city books that have never been enforced... So I think you should allow him to have the gazebo for safety and for the appemance and for the fact that it's the smallest beachlot in the whole ~ There's only 27 ~ts in that development and I think if you traced each beachlot around Lake Minnewashta you'll ~nd that that is also the smallest. One of the smallest beachlots on the whole lake so they should be able to have those type of simple safety sm~tures that are for the residents to find shelter if they have their family at the beach. Especially when lightning storms. The only concern we have is that you allow Mr. Durr to erect that find beachlot next to our's because it will also enhance our's. So that's all I have to say. Scott: Good, thank you. Would anybody else like to make any comments7 Seeing none, can I have a motion to close the public hearing please7 Farmakes moved, Ledvina seconded to close the public hearing~ All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was ciosaL Ledvina: I was wondering about off street parking. I know in your corr?llance table you've indicated that the standard prohibits off street parking. I guess I, I don't know. The alternative would be the cars parked along the roadway. Can you expand on the rationale for no off street parking7 Rask: Sure. There really is no spot for off street paddng here. However, all the lots are within 1,000 feet of the beachlot so it's kind of the assumption that people will be walking to the beachlot. There will be a path in, actually access. You know the people using the beachlot are all within that subdivision and we would just as soon that they would walk to the beachlot as opposed to drive a block or half a blocl~ Ledvina: So you feel it would be a walking situation, sure. There would be cars patkeA all along. I would walk but I don't know about everybody else. 11 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Aanenson: We may have in.~tances where families may drive down with a picnic basket and children and... The intent/on is not to have you §o parking down there... Ledvina: And I know situations with other recreational beachlots where off street pafldng creates some addit/onal problems with after hour act/vi 'ues and things like that with other people so I guess I can see it but I just wanted to just get a little better perspective on that. I guess as far as the gazebo is concerned, I think it's an amenity for the beachlot but I think the process would call for a variance of the ordinance and we don't have the analysis for a variance here. The variance process is pretty well defined and I don't know that we can do that. Maybe one of the, as far as condition number 5 is concerned. Maybe we can suggest that variance process be initiated for the gazebo. I don't know. Aanenson: Or Jeff had a good suggestion too. Amend the code under the beachlot section that says if it was just a roofed building and that would constitute a ~... Ledvina: Well, then we're monkeying with the de/init/on of smicttue then, aren't we? Aanenson: Only in the beachlot section. Ledv~: Oh! Only in thc beachlot section. Okay. Aanen~n: We'd just be amending the beachlot ordinance to say ~ of these types of... gazebo and then put a cap on it. Ledvina: So you're saying amend the ordinance? Aanenson: Yeah. That would be the two options you would have... Scott: The definition section. Aanenson: Or just amend the beachlot section. Whichever. Ledvina: Okay. Well, I don't know. I guess wc can just leave that alone then in terms of the conditions. Aanenson: You may want to just.and forward those onto Council Ledvina: Okay. Well maybe just a however on number 5. Whoever make~ the motion then. And then just for semantics pm'poses here. With condition number 2. I guess I would change the wording of the second sentence just to make sure that we're talking about on 12 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 shore storage of the canoes and how I would say that would be, with tl~ maximum on shore storage of 18 canoes and just take out the word slips because I think slips implies water kind of thing and we know that the canoes are intended to be stored on the ]snd; right? Okay. So I would just clarify tha~ Scott: Like 18 rack spaces. Ledvina: Or whatever. Just maximum on shore storage. How they do it L Scott: I can ~{k about horses but not boats. Led~ Okay, that's it. Scott: Jeff. Farmakes: I'd like to see what we can do to get to allow the gazebo. I think it'd be an enhancement also, even from the lake viewing an enhancement. One of the things I'm concerned about, we have a, I live next to a park where, a small park probably about this size and we have about 80 homes and it's on a curve and there ism't much parking there but there is an oppommity to get off of the main part of ~ on Utica. Just to drop stuff off. Coolers. Chairs. Things of that nature for one car. For thc park there. They get the kids out of the car. They ~ire their cooler or whatever down to the beac~ They have boats. They can load it up. It allows them to §et out of the lane of uaific and it's a no parking situation so they drop off their stuff and then they go park wherever and they come back. It would seem to me that for people with children or people who have to transport imm, that maybe up there just past thc island you could cut in enough space to get a car out of the lane of traffic so when...but not enough to constitute s parking problem. Anyway, this is a matter of practicality. I see it every day on our park and it would be very beneficial I think to see. Other than that I thiner it's very nice. High quality. I even like the landscaping so, that's it. Scott: Good, Ron. Nutting: I don't have anything substance to add to the record. I'm also in support of the gazebo. It adds to the site so whalx,-ver mechanism, whether it's the variance process or amendn~nt to the ordinance for the beachlot, I think that would be a worthwhile venture. I have nothiug more to add... Scott: Okay, can I have a motion please. 13 Planuing Commission Meeting - Sept~mber 21, 1994 Nutting: I make a motion that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit ~4-5 to allow a recreational beachlot on Outlot A in Minnewashta I.~naings Subdivision with the conditions stat~l in the staff report. Scott C~ons as made. Nutting: With the correction as noted in number 2. With the on shore storage. Scott: Good, second? Farmakes: I'd like to make a friendly amendment. To add consideration for the turn out for a car so as not to create a ua/YlC problem there. Scott: Is that acceptable to you Ron? Nutting: Sure. Scott: Okay, good. Can we have a second to that motion as amended please? Ledvina: I would secoM that. Scott: Okay. It's been moved and seconded. Is there any more discussion7 Nutting moved, Ledvina seconded that the Planning Commi~qion recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 094-~ to allow a recreational beaclflot on Outlot A in bflnnewashta Landings Subdivision with the following conditions: 1. All provision of Section 20-263 pertaining to recreational beachlots shall be adhered to. e 3, Verify water depth and submit the aplH~Hiate configuration of dock. The dock must be within thc dock wetback zone. The dock shall have a maximum of three (3) boats docked overnight with a maximum of 18 canoes stored on shore. Thc applicant shall apply for a permit from the city on an annual basis prior to installation of thc portable chemical wilet. The portable chemical Wilet shall only be permitted from Memorial Day to Labor Day and shall be removed from the beachlot during the rest of the year. The width of the trail und location of landscape plantings shall be designed to allow for the annual removal of the toilet facih~. 4. No gazebo or shelters shall be allowed on the beachlot. 14 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 The applicant shall supply a turn out space for a vehicle so as not to cause traffic problems. AH voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE RELATING TO TI-W. CONTROL AND PREVENTION OF DUTCH ELM AND OTHER ARBOREAL DISEASES WITHIN Scott: I'd like to welcome Jill Kimsal to our meeting and I can say we had Jill come out to our pwperty and look at some trees and she was very knowledgeable and very co~us and that comment was made to your boss. So now that you're totally emban~sed and stuff, let's hear your report Jill lfimsnl present~ the staff report on _this item- Scott: Good, thank you very much. Any questions? Comments. Nutting: Are you conflicted in this? Is there any monetary future benefit to be gained? Scott: Conflict of interest here. Aanenson: The ordinance does require that we have someone that's available on a part time basis. It isn't full time. Just so you know, we're going through the budget process with this. Jill's done a great job for the city this s~ and what we've done is, what we're proposing in the budget is to keep her on 3 days during the winter...some of the stuff that Diane Desotelle is working on with storm water and lake management inventory and looking at trees and some of those sorts of things so then we'll have J'dl on again next summer. But what thi~ does require, and we talked about thi~ in the budget last year is having someone available all summer. We're just at that level with the environmental issues that the city has and trees is one of those things. Ledvina: Tree preservation. Aanenson: So we need someone available and J'dl has done a gre~ job helping us manage that. And also she...erosion conlxol, the solid waste element of vegetation. Those sort of things. 15 Planning Commission Meeting - S~ber 21, 1994 Scott: May I just ask you a question. Just a question for J'fll. In the last issue of Planning magazine that we get, there was a specific issue, did you see that? Aanenson: Yeah, we read that. I was going to include that in your packrt about tree Scott: Yeah. But to increase, I think it was they wanted, if you have a grade level of the root system, the Wp of the root system, and then you have to fill in around, I think they were recommending going from what, like 5 times the root ball or something ~ that which is, it exceeds~ Aanenson: We looked at that ordinance but one of the things that I think Bob and I were lalking about too is that our ordinance is a little bit different. We went back with the significant in the canopy. Again your...closer to matching individual trees which we found. Scott: And we're doing canopy instead. Aanenson: So we're looking at, yeah. We're looking at tho bigger piottm~ which we _think; we think it works a lot better .... plats where we had individual trees~.. Kimsal: Yeah, and just my experience throughout the ~ dealing with developments. You know saving single trees was just really hard to do because the developers, the contractors, the builders don't really see thc significance of a single tree in the front ymxL It's a lot easier for them to infringe on that, the root system of that tree rather than a whole grove. Aanenson: Going back to this oniinance and conflict, let me answer that question. Nutting: I was in jest. Aanenson: What this does in part is someone that's available. Now you don't have to keep that person on full time but we've committed in last year's budget that we do have an intern available to do ~ Thc good news though is that Jill will be working on Wo as a part of this is there's money available to become a Tree City USA and that's one of the first things she'd be working on and there's quite a bit in that. Scot~ Hey alright. Can we put that on a sign? Aanenson: There's money available for that and also going back to this, if there are diseased trees, we can work out a program to help reduce the cost to the homeowner and so that's being introduced. The purpose really is to get rid of diseased trees that are a problem and not 16 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 to necessarily penalize the homeowner. To try and get those taken care of so we think _this is a way to do that's not punitive. It's again, maWhing a resource that we have... Farmakrs: What pot~tially could happen to a homeowner that may have 20 acres and they have, I want to say a farm area where they may have 10-12 acres of heavy forests. In that heavy forests maybe several trees that maybe require eradication. Which could be several thousand dollars. Kimsal: Not necessarily. I believe it was kept in the ordinance that one of the procedures for removal or elimination of diseased tree is girdling within an area where there's no safety concerns whatsoever. So if somebody did have 20 acres and they had, and usually in that case we're going to have elms that are 6 inches or less. It's usually a small diameter tree that's going to have this situation. And in that case, it's easy enough for them just to go around and girdle up the trees. There'd be no cost to them. Farmakes: Okay, what's girdle? Kimsal: Oh girdle is to take at least 2 inches of bark off entirely around the diameter of the tree. The circumference of the tree. Ledvina: From the bottom? Kimsal: Just take the bark off, yeah. Ledvina: All the bark on the tree? Kimsal: No, no. A minimum of 2 inches. Ledvina: What does that do7 Kirnsal: It's killing off all the water. The conducting vessels are within that area and if you take that away, nothing can move up and nothing can move down. Ledvina: So that prevents the spread of the disease? Kimsal: Well that kills the tree. Once the tree dies, it is a possible site of beetle breeding grounds. However, if you get trees that small, they're going to dry out faster and once the tree dries, the bark separates from the wood and in order for it to be a hospitable beetle breeding site, the bark needs to be tight to the tree. So once the tree dries out, the bark expands off the tree. You don't have to worry about it. 17 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Farmakes: Okay, so they wouldn't necessarily have to eradicate it? Farmakes: Okay. In surrounding communities with oak wilt. Now we have a lot of red oak here. Don't they eradicate that by trenching or ~mething or is that, are we looking at creating barriers from that coming in here or do we just wait until the trees die and then we eradi~ them? Kimsal: Yeah. No, we don't want to build a trench around the city or anything like that. Usually you just wait until you find a suspected case of oak wilt. In that case the reconunended procedure is to take samples of it. Send it to the Department of Ag and based on the results you get l~om that, that person would either use trenching or removal on white oak or red oaic..which can transmit the disease. ~ in all cases of oak wilt you would recommend trenching around that infected tree. Farmakes: Okay. I've seen, is part of this program, I've seen red marks on the trees say over between Greenwo~ Shores and thc park where the city put in those roads there and then they finally killed off those trees by putting in the PVC pipes so they didn't have to put plumbing into the shelter at Lake Ann: So they could run it over to the pumping station on the Greenw~ Shores side. They must have killed 10 or more trees. Large mature trees by doing that This is off of thi.~ ordinance but that, it would be a good thing to evaluate how those trees were killed by that type of construction so that the city doesn't do that again. It was counter productive and the co--on methods that were used by the subcontractor killed those trees. I was there and observed their con,tucSon method~ They operated in the sumrmr. They were using tractor trends on cats that were depressing the ground about 12 inches at the base of those oak uees with no regard. Aanen~n: That's part of what you would have done is review the plans as far as conslxuction management and then she's out in the field making sure that it's done...and that's why in the summer months at a minimum we ggt 8omeolle to do that. ,4n~ as she was out in inspections to find diseased trees, we realized we...ordinance in place. Farmakes: And when I discussed that with the dty personnd I was told that well, it was the lowest bid that they went with and my response was, well then we have to have a criteria for the bid that requests these cons~uction methods then because it was really sad to see that type of trail through those type of trees and then to kill the trees. And also when they decided to put the PVC pipe and run it all the way to the other side of the lake, how many trees they were killing with a 5 inch piece of PVC pipe. Maybe ff that was part of the con~id__eration for the plumbing, they may have decided not to do that so anyway. 18 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Scott: Also too, I know when we get, one of the big things that we have to deal with is when we have developments come in is that you have, thc person who provides us with the information as to where thc trees arc, what kind they are and whether or not they're going to be around after the development starts is not really objective. So I'm sure that there's ample opportunity for your cxpertise to be applied to a few of those babiea Okay. Could I have a motion please? Led~ I have a few more questiona Scott: Inquiring minds. Ledvina: Sorry. lust on the language I guess. Now we were talking about this forester position. Have we not created that yet? Aanenson: Yes. Ledvina: So are we duplicating this section? Aanenson: No. What it's saying is that thc model language we could adopt came right out of thc State statute so you looked at doing that. Ledvina: Kind of like thc shoreland ordinance? Aancnson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what we did is we spoke with the City Attorney's office and said, yes but there were penalties and things in there we didn't want and so what they said is you have to get commission aPl~roval yeah if we wanted to amend or have a little bit different ordinance. So what we do need to have in order...we do need to have language that says we do have a city forester and that's qualified and Jill and Jeff, our int~mt last year also qualify. Ledvina: Okay. I dicln't know if this was redundant. I thought we had done this but I cam, it just reinforces what's already on the books, right? Aanenson: Right. Again, it's out of State statu~ a lot of this. Some of the language we did. .. slraight out of the... Ledvina: Okay. Can someone interpret this hmguage for me? On page 2, Section 13-2. Elm and oak wood swrage. Okay. Here we go. Let's lry to do this. On the second line there. Is prohibited except during the period September 15th through April 1st of thc 19 Planning Commission Meeting - September 2l, 1994 following year during which period such storage shall be permi~ Whew. How the hell do you? What does that mean? Kirnsal: Well all that's trying to say is, elm logs and infecl~ trees fi'om the red oak group, you can store those, if you're using them for firewood or something like that, between September 15th and April lsc If it's between that time, neither elm bark beetles are reproducing nor oak wilt spoor mats are forming. Therefore, the wood that is infect~ is relatively safe at that time. So you could store it on your pr~. Ledvina: Okay. But what's of the following year? What does that have to do with it7 Kimsal: Well April 1st the following year because you have Seplx~ber 15th of say 1994 to April 1st of 1995. It covers the winter. Ledvina: Okay. September 15th through April 1st of the following year. So it doesn't have anything relating to do when the tree was cut down or anything like that7 Kimsal: No. Ledvina: Because that's what I was thinking it was relating. The following year. Aanenson: If you're going to cut it down and store iL Scott: lust think, those are the months that you can't golf. Lodvina: Okay. Think of it that way. Well I don't know. That's kind of weird, Aanenson: And we can put you know during whatever month period that is. A 9 month period of whatever. Ledvina: Why is it so confusing? Am I stupid or. Scott: No you're not, You're very inmlligent and well educated. Aanenson: ...calendar year so you can say the whole consecutive whatever, 8-9 montlm Scott: That means if you're going to cut something like that down, you got to btu~ it. You'd bet~ bum it so if it's laying around, then you're in violation of the code. We have the wood pile police now. Planning Commission Meeting - Sept~-m~ 21, 1994 Ledvina: Okay. Would you fix that language if you want? I mean I guess these state ordinan~s you don't want to monkey with those too much. Ledvina: And then also just one other thing on page 4. Itmn (e). You're talking specifically about diseased elms and oaks. Do we want to say, and other trees? I mean I know we, but why are we specific to that? Is that intentional or no? Kimsal: That's only intentional because as of fight now those are the only diseases we know of that would be a problem. Ledvina: Right. But we want w, but I mean this is the thing that talks about stumps and if we need to deal with stumps from other types of diseases let's say. Let's throw that in there. Because you know it's a specific thing on stumps. Scott: Also in Section 13-36 we must have his/her in there. By the way. You don't think we read these things do you? Nutting: Our hour is up. Ledvina: Yeah, hour's up. Okay. Scott: Okay, let's have a motion then. Ledvim: I would move that the Planning Commisaion recommend to the City Council adoption of the proposed Diseased Tree Ordinance as shown in the attachment of our staff report with some helpful modifications to the language to clarify and enhance as discu~s~l here. Scott: Good. Can I have a second please7 Nutting: Second. Scott It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion7 Ledvina moved, Nutting seconded that the Planning Comm[~d~'on recommend to the City Council adoption of the proposed Diseased Tree Ordinance as shown in the attachment of our staff report with some helpthl modifl~~ to the ]ankmage to clarify and enhance. All voted in favor and the motion carried. 21 Planning Commission Meeting - Scplx~nber 21, 1994 Scott: And let thc record show that althou~ this was a public hearing item, no nmnbers /rom thc general public are in thc audience so we dispensed with thag APPROVAL OF MINUTe: Ledvina moved, Nutting sex, onded m approve thc Minums of the Plavning Commission meetings ~ August 17, 1994 and September 7, 1994 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CITY COUNCIL UPDATE. Aanenson: They approved thc Interim Use for Admiral Waste. I think Council made some good modifications as far as capping the number of dumpsters and also making sure that they were only Adrniml Waste. They couldn't sublet their space. And I think that was a good compromise. Again, we kept to the same number of years that you had recommended which was 5 so that was...I think that was a good co ~mluxmmi~. When Halla went before the City Council they had recornmunded...attorney's office on whether or not they could go on the averaging or whether they had to go back to thc original plat. Roger gave a legal opinion that said, really their oki grandfathered right was to pursue the original plat. And again that was the legal opinion and the City Council went ahead and gave him the average so. Ledvina: Which is how we passed it forward, is that cozrect? Aanen~n: Correct What they'll be seeing Monday night is the exact motion that you had forwarded to them. But what we are...that is a recommendation because this has been going for 7 years. I mean he's proceeding with a right that nobody else has which is, you know if be was to come in today he'd have to go at 1 per 10. Ledvina: Did the Council at that point approve that plat? Aanenson: No, it's going Monday night. Ledvinm But it almost seemed like they were approving thc. Aancnson: No. They didn't have the plat in front of them or the conditions so that's really, but the condition that we're adding in as weli as your recommendation...is we're adding a drop dead date because he has to final plat the whole thing. That was one of the conditions so we're saying that there's so many lots that have to be final platted or he no longer has the preliminary plat status. Because this has continued for 7 years and it's either got to go forward or drop so that would be our recommendation on that. Business fi'inge district. We talked about, we added some permitted uses. Those we thought that were easily converted to Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 a higher or better uses such as the rninia0_~re golf. The Council was still concerned about some of the conditional uses, which are in place fight now. That may not be quite so transitory in nanh~ such as the cold storage. If somebody has a mortgage on a piece of properW, based on a large facih'ty, it may be hard to convert that type of use. So we do have one down there fight now that they're recommending now that that be taken off the conditional use so really what we're loo_ldng as far as conditional uses is the car lot... Ledvina: Wasn't the purpose of that ordinan~ to expand the uses and what we really ended up doing was narrowing them, in the end fight? Aanenson: No, we didn't have any permitI~ uses. So what we did is we did add some permi~ uses...would change in the future. But we did revisit the conditional uses and take out some of them that maybe weren't quite so palatable as long term uses. Again going back, if someone's going to put a big building on there and then a mm'tgage, he's not going to turn over as quickly as a miniature §olf course. So I think it was a good compr~ Ledvina: Yeah, I think so too. Aanenson: Shadow Ridge was given final plat approval. If you've driven out there, they're up there working away. They've done a good job as far as slaking their trees and...pretty conscious effort to try and preserve... And then they also approved, the Cotmcil approved the Wetland Alteration Permit for Highway 5 and Lyman Blvd. Scott: Good, thank you. Planning Commission terms, speaking for myself. I would li~ to be re-appointtxi. I'm interested in being re-appointed so you cain pass that on to. Aanenson: What I wanted to do was just forward this on to the City Council just so you know because what happens is...at the end of the year and then we've got to make sure we've got people in the chairs so we can k~p the agendas going so I'll forward this onto the Council So if we do need to advertise, maybe we do need to..X,add and Diane so we have people here ready to serve. Nutting: What do you do if Nancy gets elected to the Council? Scott: Well we'll know and then we'll have a seat. Nutting: You'll advertise at that point in firm? Scot~ Ri~t. 23 Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ledvina: I don't understand this, these ~ I was appointed b~fore. Aanenson: Some people are filling out like Brian Batzli's so there are some people that are fillir~g OUt other people's tm'ms... Ledvina: So how come Jeff has a $ year Farmakes: He's obviously more valuable than we are. Scott Oh by the way, I would like to announce that Matt Ledvina has been awarded the Brian Batzli Memorial Attendance Award. Unfortunately Brian couldn't be here tonight to give it to you so you'll have to call him at his office. Lcdvina: I guess we're going to share that award with, I share it with Nancy and yourself so. Scott: Well, I don't know how that happened. Ledvina: And you two over there, shape up. Nutting: Is my 69% based on the number of meetings I was eligible to attend or all the meetings? Farmakes: 81% is a B-. I'll take that Aanenson: ...City Council decided to interview so you weren't even appointed until March and that's, we've got 3 people out. Scott: So it looks pretty nasty there. Well that's the problem when you have a young child. I certainly wouldn't want to do that. Okay. Could I have a, wait a second here~ There's a. Ledvina: Shoreland ordinance. We don't talk about that Scorn Yeah. This is just attached for our information7 Aanenson: Yes. Scott: May I have a motion to adjourn please? Planning Commission Meeting - September 21, 1994 Ledvina moved, Nutting seconded to adjourn the meeting. AH voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:37 p.m: Submitted by Kate Aanenson Planning Director ~ by Nann Ophcim