EDA 1994 05 19CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND
REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 19, 1994
Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m;
MEMBERS PRF_~ENT: Don Chmiel, Mike Mason, Gary Boyle, and Sim Bohn
MEMBERS ABSENT: Charlie Robbln.~
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director and Todd G-erSt, Asst. Executive
Director
APPROVAL OF MINIJTES: Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated March 31, 1994 as presented. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
REJECT BIDS ON THE HANUS FACH.ITY ROOF.
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman and HRA members. In your packet is a request fa'om staff to reject
bids on the Hanus remodeling project. Staff was a little disappointed in the bids we rec~ved.
Three bids from contractors for that project and the bids were over the architect's estimate by
approximately $130,000.00 and staff at thi~ time is making a request to check the bids and
that we're going to sit down with the architect and relook at the plans themselves and meet
with a couple of general conlxactors to see what we can do to bring this project back in line
with our estimate. The architect has preliminarily met with a few of the contractors and he
feels confident that making some of the alterations to the plans, we will be able to meet that
Chmiel: Then going with the general contractor rather than through the architect portion
itself, right7
Gerhardt: We will be meeting with both, probably general contractor and an archilrct and
we'll have to come back and ask that we go out to bids again and we already saw plans and
specs with modifications to try to get this project back in line.
Chmiel: Great.
Bohn: Okay, do you need a vote on rej~g.
Gerhardt: You should make a motion to reje~t the bids.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Mason: I'd like to make a motion that we reject all bids received on May 5, 1994 and yeah,
direct staff to look at other alummtives to complete the process.
Boyle: I'll second that.
Mason moved, Boyle seconded that the HRA reject aH bids on the Hanus Remodeling
project and direct staff to look at other alternatives to complete the process. AH voted
in favor and the motion carried.
CONSIDER CHANGE ORDER TO HANUS FACILITY UPGRADING AGGREGATE
BASE AND TO HAUL DIRT FOR PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE.
Gerhardt: Included in your packet again is thc request for thc proposed change order. If you
remember thc Hanus building was broken into two projects. One was the parking lot and
landscaping around the Hanus facility and on part of the Apple Valley Red-E-Mix site for the
tow lot area the HRA will have. Included in that specifications we had 9 inches of gravel
and 3 inches of bituminous and city specifications call for 12 inches of rock and 3 1/2 inches
of bituminous. So staff is requesting that to rebuild these parking lots we need to put city
specifications based on truck traffic that will be using that facih~ and around. There is some
question in the soils in the area. The beefed up parking lot should be done. At this point
we're requesting on the one section you should take action. There's a change order for
changing the specifications at a cost estimate of $11,673.00. And then the second item on
that, was for the pedestrian bridge and with that one, what we're going to be doing is
bringing dirt in to bring that elevation of the bridge up in line with MnDot's specifications for
the height of the bridge and also to malch the grades of the land on the south embankment
area along Lake Drive East.
Bohn: Do I have a motion?
Chrniel: Well, I have a question Mr. Chair. Was there any kinds of soils that we could
possibly get from the Byerly's site to u 'tdize there? And rather than have them haul it
somewhere else, just put it right in that particular location and thereby maybe cutting some of
those costs?
Gerhardt: The esfimams that we received from Buck's Blackl~ does include fill material
from the Byerly's site and Charlie .lames has offered that to us at no cost so we're not paying
for the dire The route of traffic that they would have to use. Go down CR 17, down TH 5
and come up TH 101. $o the din is free and then...back side of the I-Ianus building too and
that would also be at no cost and even hauling it over there...cost so we're trying to use as
much of the material as close to the site as possible. And it just makes sense for that portion
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
to use Buck's Blacktop to match in with the naUa~ grades of the north embankment of the
pedestrian bridge. You're kind of doing half a project and the same contmctor's...finishes off
the grading work or the berm along the Hanus facility property.
Bohn: Is he going to be grading an the way down to the oki Taco Shop?
Gerhardt: No. It will end, we finish the plans for that. We do not know how that mv.a's
going to lay out so you would have to approve the set of plans of how you want to see that
area landscaped. So that will probably come under number 5 on your agenda. When you
discuss the process that we're going to go tlu'ough on that.
Ashworth: Todd, if I could Mr. Chairman. Maybe I should add that Todd is correct Charlie
had made that offer to provide the dirt. However, as part of the settlement agreement as a
part of our acquisition for part of big ~, moving of 78th Street. So you'll be seeing
that. It's a little more complicated than just to say that the dirt is free but there's no other
strings going along with it. I should make you aware of that. You will be seeing that
probably this next month.
Bohn: Do I have a motion?
Chrniel: I would so move to consider change order, Hanus facility. Staff recommeads HRA
direct staff to proceed to change orders. Item 1, with the upgrading of the depth of aggregate
base for the amount of $11,673.00 and the conslxucfion of the emit at the north end
of the pedestrian bridge at $17,397.00.
Mason: Second.
Chmiel moved, Mason seconded that the lIRA direct staff to process two change orders
as follows:
1. Upgrading the depth of the aggregate base and the thickness of the bituminous to meet .
city standards at a cost of approxims__te, ly $11,673.00.
2. The conslruction of the embankrr~t at the north end of the pedestrian bridge at a cost of
approximately $17,397.00.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
REVIEW SENIOR HOUSING PROPOSAI~q.
Ashworth: As the HRA is aware, we had a joint session with the City Council to look at
senior housing on this past Monday night. City Council acted to set the next wok session
date for Sune 20th at 5:30 p.m. We would see that as another again joint session with the
HRA, City Council. We're anticipating, it was at least my understallding of that last meeting
that the primary concern, at least as I heard it from City Council, was to insure that__ if we
went into this type of project, that financially it would be feasible. We wanted to hear from
people like some of our...county counterparts who have done similar type of projects and are
any of those in financial risk or not. And again, I primarily heard that the emphads of the
Council not taking any further action at our last work session was really one of just wanting
to be assured that financially that this was the best way to go. The sale of essential purpose
bonds. Putting GO backing behind that. I did not hear anybody say that this is not
something that you want to do. I think if you polled everyone, there'd be a general
consensus saying yes, we would like to do this. We want to do thi.~. But I think there was a
lot of concern as to the financial aspect And again, they did act Monday night to set up the
next work session for Sune 20th to try to answer some of those que.~ons so I would, the
HRA just acknowledge that they will have that work session on Sune 20th. In the meantime I
might note that Sharmin has been trying to keep the seniors aware of what is transpiring in
both Planning Commission, City Council and the lIRA and I think it's because thi~ item did
appear on your HRA agenda that we do have several senior citizens present I don't know ff
they wish to speak this evening or not.
Bohn: Would anybody like to speak to the HRA about senior housing?
Audience: Do you have a program in mind as to how you're going to subsidize any of the
apammnts or not?
Bohn: Would you go up to the microphone please?
Chmiel: So we can, we have this recorded so we'd like you to come up to the microphone.
We can't pick you up from the chair there.
Audience: Are you planning on having any kind of a program that would subs_idiTe some of
the apartments? And if they would be subsidized, who would they be subsldiTed by who?
Ashworth: There's a number of alternatives that you can look to and I thinir it's fair to say
that.and see units subsidized. One thing would assure that is that we would try to have as
many units as possible qualified under what's refen~ to as the Section 8 plan that's
administered by the Metropolitan Council I should make you aware of the fact that there's
Housing and Redevelolm~t Authority - May 19, 1994
really not enough of those units around for the need so when the Mayor and I had visited
Waconia, a number of those units similarly fall under that Section 8 program. But for people
wanting to get in there, it takes almost a 2 year period of time to gain qualifi~on. You can
establish local programs and that's one of the things that we'll be exploring and one of the
things we'll be talking about on June 20th.
Audience: That's what I was wondering about because I am in a subsidized building now...
and I used to live in Chan and I want to get back here so badly and I was wondering. And I
did call, or I had sorne~y call thc lIRA today and they said they have a waiting list of
3,500 that you're going to take care of first. So I was just wondering if there was any other
program so that I would be able to come in here without that.
Ashworth: 3,500, that's.
Audience: That isn't just for Chan. I think that is for the State I think
Ashworth: Probably the melro.
Audience: I got it from the Linkage Line. Senior Linkage lJine.
Ashworth: Given the total number of units that they've used up. I know that sounds like a
lot with the number of metro wide units that are subsidized. I would guess that would put it
probably into a 2 year waitlist thing. It would be nice to be able to establish in a local
program where we could establish locai crilm'ia. I think one of the things that was very
disappointing with the complex here in downtown. That's both senior as well as a low and
moderate income facility.
Audience: I was over there, yes.
Ashworth: But what ha~ on that is that a divorced individual with 2 or 3 children
making $12,000.00 to $15,000.00 a year will be the first one to get the unit over a senior
citizen who may have $6,000.00 or $8,000.00 in social security with potentially $80,000.00 or
$100,000.00 in the bank from the sale of their home. And so as a ~sult. I haven't
considered the HUD program as a very good one.
Audience: I guess that's all
Bohn: Thank you. ff there's nothing else, we'll go on to review of the entry monmnents.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 19o2
ENTRY MONUMENTS.
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, lIRA members. At our last City Council meeting, staff had
Michael Schroeder give a presentation to the City Council on soliciting their input on entry
monuments and what they thought was appropriate in what location. Prom that meeting it
was determined at the Council level that they would like the enU'y monuments at the
intersection of County Road 17 and Highway 5, ~ Boulevard and Highway :5 and also
the north leg of TH 101 and Highway 5 as the three projects that they wanted to initiate this
year. And included in those they do not want to see any detailed signage at TH 101 and CR
17. They wan~ed to try to emphasize those in~'secfions with more of a landscaped feature in
those areas. They would be interested however in signage of some sort at the intersection of
Market and Highway 5. Depending on the cost and the detail. From that staff was directed,
which we then directed Michael to slart putting some schematic desi~ together for those
your review and comments. Right now that's the process that we have in place.
Boyle: Todd, was he given a little direct/on on cost? I mean a paramem'.
Gerhardt: There was, they wanted to give us numbers. You know they wanted to lay out
the money but taking into account the area that you have there. We just couldn't do that.
We felt that it was better for him to come in and to lay it out and come back and say this is
how much the budget would be if you were to §o with these different scenarios.
Mason: Yeah, I do recall, I think he felt very, we made him aware of the fact that we wanted
to keep it as, not as cheap but as inexpendve as possible. We weren't looking to spend
hundreds of thousands of dollars but he's not, I don't think he'll be coming back with
something pie in the sky. I would ~y hope he wouldn't.
Boyle: Based on past experiences, is thc reason I question that.
Mason: Would you agree with that Don?
Chh-del: Yes.
Bohn: Any other discussion? We'll go on.
Mason: I'm just curious if anyone on lIRA had any ~ts on that. As I will be talking
with City Council about what we discussed on this.
Bohn: Feelings for.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Chmiel: In other words, the two of you guys.
Bohn: I was just thinking about the money it was going to cost. That's the only thing I was
Boyle: I thinle the letter said it quite appr~tely. Tastefidly and not very expensive.
Mason: That's what we're looking for, that's right.
Boyle: It hits the nail right on the head.
Oer~dt: That's how the Council felt about it. They were very concerned that they didn't
want to run into something that would gobble up, they would rather see a plan that had the
money put into trees than into 5 vertical dements or signagc or the fact that they wanted to
try ua come in with more of a landscape entrance theme than getting into expensive...
Bohn: I wish we would have thought of that 3 years ago.
Mason: Live and learn.
CONSIDER MODWYING THE REDEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WlTlt RYAN
CONSTRUCTION ON OUTLOT Bs RETAH. ADDITION.
Ashworth: We have thc development contract included in your packet for the Ryan
development west of Target. This has been a very difficult one because when they had
originally approached the HRA, they had anticipated not only being able to bring Target into
the community. Potentially reap some benefits off of that but in addition, be able to develop
the 5 ouflots that had originally been planned for that area. As this item went through the
Planning Commission, it became quite obvious that the Planning Commission would not
accept that level of density. And in addition, you wanted to see a large band of green space
literally surrounding the entire development proposal That reduced the development potential
from the 5 lots to 3 and in the process of doing that, literally took most of the money that the
developer might normally receive out of a contract like this, out of the picture and they're
currently basically in front of you saying they would ~ to finish this but quite U'uthfixlly
they're doing it solely on the basis of trying to recoup costs that they've put in during the last
3 year period of time. I think the contract meets the guidelines that you've given staff.
Again, there is the large green band that is both to the southwest and north of the proposed 3
development sites. The level of help has been reduced. It's generally closer to half of what
you might normally provide, which I thinir was another goal of the liRA. Todd has some
minor type of changes that they have requested since this document was sent out. Maybe I
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
should quit at this point and ask if there's any §eneral questions about the contract as it's in
front of you. Approval is recomm~
Bohn: Any questions? Mike.
Mason: No.
Boyle: It seems to me that must be a considerable amount of green space to reduce the lots
from 5 to 3. I would only question, is it really necessary7 I mean we all ~ to have some
green area and make it look very nice but we also have to consider the right bn~ness
decisions I think sometimes. Do we really need that much green space to mak~ it look right?
That's my only question.
Ashworth: I think that some of the things that happened, you really can't have half lots
recorded so once you lost the one and then started eating into the other, it's much easier to
just kind of reconfiguring thc whole thing as 3 lots versus the 5. I think the P]allning
Cotmnission's position is pretty adamant. They did not want to see the denalty that had
originally been shown on those plans and I got the feeling that at least the Council concurred.
I don't know if that's a fair statement or not.
Gerha~t: City Council did approve the specific~ons for thc green area...and that was thc
difficult...38% green are~
Ashworth: That was significantly higher but again, there was a great deal of concern as to
that being one of the entry areas into the community and back to this whole Bill Morrish
theme of rooms and entry areas, etc. We very much followed idn~ of a plan that he had laid
out as it dealt with that intersection. And like I said, the Planning Commission really felt that
that was the way to go so.
Bohn: To build on that one lot, wouldn't they have had to put a retaining wall in?
Ashworth: I don't know a retaining wall.
Bohn: Well on the corner, it seems like it's much higher than it is.
Gerhardt: They're going to have to mass grade the site...there's the ravine that needs to be
filled or graded down and so there will be substantial grading. You also have, it's a very
difficult site to develop. Tom from Ryan Conslruction is here and...some of the pitfalls.
There are some poor soils out there. There's a major fiber optic telephone line that goes
through the property. There's a gas line. There's a sewer line. There's a water line. And
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
you have to try to move the buildings and footings around all those because you just can't
move those fiber optic lines. You can't move a large watermain.' Those just make things
cost prohibitive. So in conjunction with those and site coverage percentages, they just didn't
feel that that fourth lot could fit and Bill brought that to our attention last December and it
was viewed with the scenario that we would have a little more green area.
Bohn: Are they going to move Perkins further to the e.~t7
Get, t: Not so much the Perlcin.~ I think was the problem. That's pretty much out of the
utility area. It's the other two. Well they had one, Taco Bell is in. That one they could fit
inbetween some of the units but they haven't picked a third user yet but that's the other one
that they're having trouble, or would have trouble in moving things around and getting a
fourth lot. The Perkins takes the larger percentage of the site. I think they have 1.2 acres or
1.3 so they're miring the most southerly portion of the property. And that's where the fourth
lot is...parking at Perkins squeezes out a fourth lot that you could try to fit in there and still
meet thc 38% green.
Bohn: Any other questions?
Chmiel: I had just, Don. Maybe you can just sort of (qll me in on this~ Under Article IL
page 6, Section 2.2, subparagraph (c). Is there any kinds of ballparks that we're looking at as
far as that blank for total dollars7 That would come inw that.
Oer~t: Did we...1.5 or 1.4. Something like that
Tom Palrnquist: I believe it was 1.2.
C~rharcit: 2? Okay. $1,200,000.00.
Chmiel: Okay.
Gerhardt: The other changes that are occurring in the plan that are not highlighted call for
not having that third user. Ryan has requested that they get a 6 month extension on the one
lot so that would take them, that they would have to build something on that third lot by luly
1st of 1995. And Rmt the other two lots would have to be completed, as the plan calls, by
January 1st of 1995. So you're giving a 6 month extension to the third lot and right now
they have not come to terms with a third user of that.
Chmiel: Yeah, that was my question.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Gerhardt: And then with that you are extending the increment into 1999 for that one lot.
Boyle: Just the one lot.
Bohn: Any other questions?
Boyle: I have no further questions.
Bohn: Can we have a vote, or motion?
Boyle: The motion is on the extension is what we're looking for, is that correct? Don, the 6
month extension. Is that for another?
Gerhardt: That and the agreement has several modifications in the last item...Were there any
other corrections that they changed which.
Tom Palmquist. Excuse me. Mr. Chairman, rne~ of the HRA. Staff. I'm Tom
Palngluist fi'om Ryan Construction Company. Oood evening. ! have just a couple of pointa..
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Ashworth: ...or their inm'pretation of how they want it recorded.
Chmiel: It would be in our best interest to just sit back...resolve between the attorneys before
any motion should be moved on this?
Ashwor~: They'll have to respond to that. Last time when I had talked with Bill McHale,
he desperately wanted to see this moved as quickly as possible because he knows that the
timing is going to be very, very close for him to have 2 out of these 3 projects closed, open
and operationM by December 31st. There is a lremcndous amount of work. And again, Ryan
should respond to that question.
Tom Palmquist: I guess I will. Thc feeling I guess that we have for that is that if thc HRA
does request tabling the issue until matters clear, given thc time constraints, I see no other
way to get the development done but to expand the window in which it's to be completed
beyond January 1, 1995 and that's not something that I know staff wants to do. It's not
something we want to do and frankly, the users that we're cm'renfly working with likely will
not ride the bus with us until that process is completed.
Boyle: Don, is there any legal ramifications for moving on this tonight?
10
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Ashworth: No. I don't see any. And again, in talking with Gary this morning, I also had a
conversation with Charlie Same~. The three of us see no problem in trying to be able to put
this into a format that makes Ryan's attorneys happy. It's really a format problem.
Boyle: And we would be impmp~ order to move on this toni~ in staff's opinion7
Ashworth: That's our opinion, yes.
Boyle: I would like to make a motion then I guess Mr. Chairman that we approve the
development agreement as so stated and changed by Ryan Construction Company.
Bohn: Second?
Mason: I'll second it.
Boyle moved, Mnson seconded thnt the m~ approve modifying the Redevelopment
Agreement with Rynn Construction on Outiot B with the corrections nmde by stnff. AH
voted in fnvor nnd the motion cnrried.
Bohn: Discussiom
Chmiel: Just one other quick question- What's this conveying rifle of right-of-way property
that's involved in here, as was mentioned?
Geflmrdt: That's an old railroad right-of-way. It's MnDot right-of-way. There's a small
little square. I mean if you look at it...
Chmiel: Okay. I couldn't visualize where the railroad was coming in there.
Gerhardt: There's just one correction and that included the 6 month extea~on and...
Chmiel: Yeah. At least I noted that in mine.
Boyle: I did the same. I assumed it included everything that was proposed.
Chrniel: The 6 month extension. July of '95 for the third lot to January '95. No. ~luly of
'95 for the third lot and the other two were January of '95.
11
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
CONSIDER APPROVING PURCHASE AGREEMENT FOR ~ SOUTH
TOUCHDOWN AREA FOR THE PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE.
Gerhardt: The next item is considering approval of a purchase agreemeot for the south end of
the pedestrian bridge. Attached for your consideration tonight is thc purchase agreement
between the HRA and Mort~nson Development Company for the southerly embankment along
Lake Drive for the ped~ bridge. The purchase calls for the HRA to pay $3.25 a square
foot or approximately 26,000 square feet of land on the new Lake Drive and the new
pedestrian embsn~t are~ I've incl~ a map that shows, this last attachnm~t shows how
the pedestrian will land on the south side and one of the questions that may come to you is
do we need that much land. It's a difficult piece and as you bring the trail down and we
have to continue to bring the trail farther west to get those grades necessary to meet the ADA
requirements. And to ~ly grade the site. So it's staff recommeadafion to approve the
purchase agreement as drafted for a purchase price of $84,788.00.
Chmiel: Todd, what side of the highway are we talking about?
Bohn: The south side.
Chmiel: On the south side, right. We own what's on the north side.
Gerhardt: Yeah, this would be directly to the east of the ball diamonds out there. There's a
high point. A high field over there so it would be east of the Legion ball diamond.
Bob. n: Would there be any of the Mortenson pmtm'ty left?
Gerhardt: Yes. Yes. There would be, I think they own approximatdy 4 acr~ so of that 4
acres we're taking 28,000 square feet, which is roughly a little more than a half acre.
Boyle: I feel it only appropriate that I express the concern of the amount of dollars that we
are spending on this particular, it continues to climb evea'y time we get into it. I don't think
we have another option. We need thc property to complete the project so. Not another
option that I'm aware of anyway.
Ctuniel: Does that all take into consideration the total cost for that bridge? Didn't we have a
ballpark figure?
Gerhardt: The costs that you've seen to date only included the bridge construction, h did
not take into account land acquisition and embankment constnxcfiom
12
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Chrniel: Okay..
Oer~C So this would be up and above that estimate. I have those upstairs. I can bring
those down...to see those I can get your copies of the last eatima_te-s for that bridge.
Boyle: Todd, is it in staff's opinion that this $3.25 a square foot is a fair and equitable price
to pay for that property?
Gerhardt: It is a fair market value for that piece of property. I think we had all appraisal
done on thc property and Harvey came in at $3.00 a square foot and they of course wanted
more. We came to terms at $3.25. They were very friendly in negotiations. They were
looking for $3.50 and we halved it. So it's, $3.25 is fair. They were trying to make other
concessions along with it. They wanted to be able to put in a sign that won_Icl_ be
grandfathered in and _things like that and we said that we couldn't bind future Council to...on
how they may develop their property and it's just pan of the negotiations.
Boyle: Can we make this a toll bridg~ for the first/i years maybe and recoup some of it?
Chmiel: A nickel for each bicycle going across.
Mason: Kids pay a penny.
Boyle: Just one other question Todd. I know this is going to grab some metnory but what is
the total now7 The total cost and then how much is, just to refresh the memory. If you don't
have it right now that's. Okay, I was just curious.
C~r~t: I think you're up to 450.
Boyle: Appro~ly.
Gerhardt: Not including the 84 and not including the $17,000.00 in grading. In grading that
up.
Boyle: Maybe I shouldn't be joking about the toll. I have no more questions Mr. Chairman.
Bohn: Don?
Chmiel: No, I don't have any questions.
13
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Gerhardt: In the total project, that's not your conlribufion, h's still going m be $2.50,000.00
that goes towards it so you're going to get a total project cost that would probably be up w
Mason: Bridges don't come cheap.
Boyle: Very nice bridges.
Mason: It is. Bill Morri_'sb was impressed with it last night, as a matter of face I'll make a
motion to consider to, not to consider but to approve purchase agreement for the south end of
the pedestrian bridge as per staff recommendations.
Bohn: Do I have a second?
Boyle: Okay, I'll secoud it.
Mason moved, Boyle seconded that the m~ approve the purchase agreement with
Mortenson Development Company for the southerly embankmmt for the pedestrian
bridge as drafted and direct staff to schedule a dosing~ AH voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Bohn: Richard7
Richard Wing: As a member of the Highway 5 Task Force, we thank you. This is one of
the ...windows that was identified by Bill Mon'ish as one of thc sight line discusdons of the
city.
Bohn: Thank you.
REVIEW ARCHITECTURAL STYLE FOR QUTLOT A AND LOT 4~ MARKI~
SOUAim.
Gerhantt: As some of you may know, the HRA does have architectural appwval of
developments that are in your control and tonight you have Brad Johnson...here wnight to
present their proposed development of a Wendy's and office retail center for Ouflot A and
Lot 4 on Market Square Addition. At this time I'd like to have that parmer~hip come up and
present their plan to the HRA.
Vemelle Claywn: Good evening. I'm Vernelle Clayton_and for the benefit of those of you
who haven't seen the plan, and Gary I guess you're probably the only one who hasn't really
tslren a look at therm..site plan will teal you where they are. With our colcu~xl version of our
14
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
landscaped plan. That kind of shows a little more preU~ version. This is this building and
this is the Wendy's building. Both buildings have been redesigned since we first visited with
your group last September or October. Thi, one is the one that has under gone the most
dramatic changes. It's been designed to both coarai-~ with the archi~ elements of
Market Square and with the elements of archi~-al that you see up and down main street,
particular in the near by vicinity of the comer. The way in which it coordinates with Market
Square is, we use some of the same construction ma__n~_'~ls along the bottom. Using some of
the same colors as the awnings on the window trim and the pillar, picking up the pillar
acces~ of the... The other aspect of the architecttu-e...bett~r looidng buildings of the city and
we think this will be an~ng the best looking with all of the brick and so fcn~ I think, and
with all the glass. It will be a relatively dramatic appearan~ particudarly in the evening I
think with the lights on inside...That then is the building...relatively brief about those and you
can ask questions. The other building will pick up on the same color. The brick is relatively
close to the color we'll be using on that one. Picking up on the brick. Since we visited with
you we've added the roof element over the...color and they'll be coordina~d as much as
possible with Market Square. As many of you have chatted with me and said, well we're
essentially through the CounciL We are essentially that. We have, this is the landscaping
plan that was...This is the landscaping plan that they...addition of some trees that peop~..
Mason: That's the south side fight, Vernelle?
Vernelle Claywn: This is the south side. This is an entrance. In case any of you have been
experiencing what we've expedence&..we're also cutting this back a bit so that the curve in
turn in will be a lot better...
Bohn: How many more trees did you add to it?
Richard Wing: More than the number of trees, just the re~ty that that isn't the place to be
putting in large amounts of uees and materials. I think it was my wish to l~lly...sight lines
with thc reality that this really isn't an appmpria~...l think we had about 5...but their
landscape architect was very...and this is pushing our limit and what really fit in there
realistically. So this is a realistic compromise. I think they did a nice job.
Boyle: These are actual trees, not bushes. These are trees? I mean ~ a.
Richard Wing: They're all overstary...
Boyle: I'm sorry.
Vemelle Clayton: The term these days, the clinical cozre~ imm in reference to lrees in
15
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
parking lots is overstory. So these are overswry trees. It ~ you can see under them.
The purpose is to walce it cooler...parking lot. So these big brown circles are the trees and
then the little...circles are shrubs.
Mason: Now you showed, on the other side you don't show that many txces I don't think
Vemelle Clayton: This is with the addition.
Mason: Okay, okay. I guess our purpose there is to present the architecture to you and I
don't have it in a nutshell down there but I'd bc happy to answer questions.
Boyle: Tremendous improvements from the first time that I think we all saw iL I guess, I'm
going to ask a question. Only as still the rookie on the HRA. At what level of respo~~ty
does it rest on liRA when it comes to archimcumfi approvement? The Planning Conmfission
has looked at it. Oiven their opinion- City Council has done it. Voiced their approval I
assume. What level is it the responsibility of the HRA when it comes to architectural
approval?
Ashworth: You don't have any, there's nothing under State law to provide archimctung
review...over to Housing and Redevel~t Authority. You've established no local
procedures as you filler thaL But there's one very obvious thing that provides you the ability
to do that...and that is they're looking for your assistance.
Boyle: Okay, this is a courtesy.
Ashworth: ...you make a decision that you want to review the architecture and that's up m
you. If they don't want to take and show you the architectm~, you don't have to provide
Boyle: Thank you Don.
Vernelle Clayton: That's a segway into a question that I had. I don't know how much
format you exactly want to use tonight. We have two issues that are on the agenda plus our
request that you suggest~ for asses~t bre~ down and one addifionsl land that we'd like
to consider and that being the movement of the utility boxes that currently are located up here
over...It costs about $10,000.00...
Boyle: Separating7 Or do we do it all at once7
Chmieh Go ahead. I was just going to say something in itself but that's alright. I guess my
16
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
position is, I see us in no position to relocate those at HRA's cost. They've been put there
before and been rel~ated. I always feel two times with us and out. If there's an additional
cost that's required, then I think it should be bom by the developer. At least that's my
position~
Vemellc Clayton: I don't understand what you're saying.
Chmiel: Well, we moved that once before. And then we moved it a second time because of
some other problems that existed and to move it the third time, I don't think we should do it
Vernclle Clayton: You don't think it should be moved anymore, period?
Chmiel: Well if the developer wants to move it from existing location to the new proposed
location, I would say that's fine.
Vernelle Clayton: What we were asking is not essentially that you out and out pay for it.
But that you allow us w, that it be paid as we repay the cost on TIF. So we'd be paying for
it out of taxes. That was what our proposal was going to be. The problem that we're having
up here is that there's a requirement that there be a 10 foot clearance around them so they
can get at them and you can't have any shrubs aronnd them, So on that...our 100 set comer
we have...sittin§ there and the cost is only about $10,000.00 but we don't feel like it's, and
there's some question too. I know we aren't sure of that. We had a surveyor out there..Jt
appears that they might be outside of the easement. I don't know about that. But we didn't
think it was...that we might get some help from you all
Boyle: Well I would definitely agree that that does not enhance that comer at all
Chmiel: They're not pre~.
Boyle: It's not pretty and it probably should not be there. How did it get there?
Vernelle CLayton: ...was done by the planning depamnent or the CounciL I think it was
done by NSP that's coming along and saying, this is where we put the boxes. We need to
put these boxes out here and suddenly there it was.
Chmiel: They're normal required to put them in right-of-way segments of the city and if
that's the case where it's outside of that easement, then it would be up to NSP to l~OC~te that
facih'ty or move it to your desired choice. If it's on, if it would be on that property.
17
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Ashworth: I think at least one of those, if not two, are the controller units for the signals.
Vemelle Clayton: One is and that's the one we're hoping to include that in the designs...
That one I understand can't be moved...
Chmiel: That's true.
Boyle: Well in regards to color, landscaping, and construction malm'ials, I have no problems
with what you presented tonight. I think it looks quite good.
Bohn: Mike.
Mason: I basically agree. But Vernelle, help me out a little bit. We had talked I think on
Council something about changing the shingle on the roof. What ha~ed?
Vernellc Clayton: We've included that in our plans.
Boyle: On what building? Oh, on the Edina Realty7
Mason: Yeah. To the.
Vernelle Clayton: To give a little more ~ right.
Mason: Yeah. I _think it looks nice.
Bohn: I have a question. We're buying this property, or selling this property? Never mind;
next item. Any other questions on thc archil~mml? No?
Boyle: There is an issue I believe however on thc boxes, is there not?
Mason: Yeah...deal with that now. I don't thini~ so.
Chmiel: Yeah. No, I don't think that's n~y within that function.
Mason: I would want to get an opinion from stuff on all that kind of stuff before I said
anything on that.
Boyle: Okay. We're looking, I think Todd it was agreed that we're looking for some staff
recommendations and opinions regarding the boxes before we.
18
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Bohn: The electrical boxes?
Boyle: The electrical boxes. How's that for pas~ng the buck?
Mason: It doesn't have to be done tonight.
Chrniel: I don't think that's something that has to be resolved this evening.
Cm-rhardt: I don't think so. There's going to have to be some agreement on the, her second
request for special assessment assistance and if you want to deal with that now too. I'd kind
of ~ to get your feedback I think Vernelle is asking also that through the increment that
would be cre~ted off of this site, to write down the exis~ng specials. Right now the purchase
agreement which is the second item of thi~ issue is for you to hold the public hearing
regarding thc land sale. Once you're in agreement with the project, and then direct staff to
execute the purchase agreement And then Vernelle's asked for special assessment assistance
and I do not know right now how much specials are against the property but we would look
at our next meeting to deal with that issue and put an ~t together similar to the one
that Ryan has tonight Right now the purchase agreement calls for the development to pay
the specials on the site prorated back to the time that we acquired it. So I don't know how
you feel on that issue. If you want to discuss that among yourselves and give us some
feedback on that or if you're looldng for staff's recommendation on that. We can review that
also.
Bohn: Alright, can I have a motion on item numl~ 8?
Chmiel.' I would so move.
Mason: Second.
Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to approve the proposed archi~ styles as
proposed by Wendy's and for the office/retail crater for Marke~ Square. Ali voted in
favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING REGARDING THE LAND SALE OF OUTLOT A AND LOT 4~
MARKET SQUARE.
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, under State Statute the lIRA must hold a public hearing when
disposing of pr~. The sale of Outlot A and Lot 4 was published in the newspaper on
May 5th. You have opened the public ~g to take citizen comment and stuff would
recommend that anybody that would like to comment on that sale do so at this time.
19
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Bohn: Would anybody wish to addre~ the HR at this time? Richard.
Rielmrd W'mg: ...situation at all First thing here...Vill~er Newspaper. I wasn't very ~dna
to ~ Trippler necessarily and my concern of hi~ coverage that he's giving thc Council and
the types of quantity and quality and we had a little discusdon about that. He was a...and I
guess I stand by my position but in the meanwhile he turns around and his editorial that he
wrote clearly was in support of...his own feelings and comments and...and his cffmment that
there's an opportunity to make the city a developer, the devel~...that'd be my goal for the
future. That all of us try to make that an aim to try and extract a little more quality. In this
case...very respectful and tried very hard to do what you could to make t~is ~o with the city.
I just want to go back to the Plannin§ Commission motion because it kind of slid, it gets in
the process and I don't feel staff represen~ it very well and Council failed to discuss it.
And the motion denied this proposal on what they felt was a parking problem and the pazking
problem right now is based on 15,000 populatiom..30 or 35 .... completed at Planning
Commission and then it went to Council and then a council member brought it up...
(Thex~ was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Vemelle Clayton: ...the Council which is why it didn't get ~tdres~d much in depth because
the perception was the problem was going to be solved. A8 to parking on site, there's
adequate parking. We're installing 2 more than the code requires and the parking overall
the...addition was anticipated with the PUD parking approval at that time_.. That technically
was a...The parking we're propo~n§ here is greater than required, even without con~4d_ering...
Bohn: Is there a sidewalk going in there?
Vemelle CLayton: Yes. Here and here. And there will be another sidewalk that will come
down here...and then it will ~hen go down over into that north...
Bohn: How about the Festival corning up Mm'ket Boulevard?
Vernelle Clayton: Well that's part of the proposal so I can't ansv:r that fight now...
Richard Wing: While Vernelle's up there can I just ask another question for you to address...
and fight now I don't _thini~ that's a problem. The Council addressed that...it's very common
to see 6 to 12 cars at McDonald's lined up at lunch or duling dinner time. I have not seen
that at Wendy's. I haven't seen those type of lines but as this is a permanent stru~ and as
our population doubles, will in fact that stacking be inappropria~e...parking lot and are we
~g a problem that we will not be able to resolve...
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Vemelle Clayton: I think that I have talked about that issue with each of the mcmlm-s and
Wendy's...paying window and pick-up window. Paying window. Another one here. Another
one here. Ordering and that's...so you can have 6 cars there before they start parking behind
any of these. And the issue that sornexme suggest~ was that they probably weren't terribly
concerned about a car tying up a parking stall but they would be concerned if they went out
into the street and that possibility is quire remote. On the other hand...qulm politely referred
to Wendy's...and try to make a living there and they're comfortable...
Boyle: Well Wendy's evidenudly has done this many times and they don't feel that's a, the
stacking is an issue, I guess I wouldn't either. It seems a few cars to tm, I mean just like
you say, I thir~k Wendy's is the one that does the business there and they're comfortable with
that few of cars stacking. Is the stacking location starting from the order point or from the
window? Oh, from the window where they nw,~ve it.
Vemelle Clayton: They come through here. You've got one car here and presumably they
consider everybody else behind them stacked.
Chmiel: If they don't have an order ready, so it doesn't hold up or combine additional
stacking, is there any area they can pull off to to pick up their tnuchases?
John Noga: Maybe I should answer that.
Vernelle Clayton: John Noga from Wendy's.
John Noga: Thank you. Hrst of all, this is the same stacking we have on all of our stores.
We find that the maximum stacking for us or the ideal stocking is about 6 cars. We don't
have the volume that McDonald's has. McDonald's restaurant does a far greater volume,
unfortunately, than we do. We'd like to have their volume but we don't. We also have the
double drive thru in terms of having two windows. One is a window for taking your change,
your cash and the other one is for delivering the product. And that moves the cusWmers
through the process a lot faster, and you see that on...you see that on Burger King's and that's
the latest way of doing things because it does move the flow of traffic faster. And then you
had one other question.
Chrniel: The area to pull off in the event an order is not.
John Noga: We don't have that and the reason for that is we make all our products fresh for
the customer. $o when you order your product at the window, by the time you make the
change with the change person, the product is delivered fresh. And McDonald's, because I
21
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
used to work for McDonald's. They pre-mark their product so therefore if you say ordered a
fish sandwich. They don't have any fish sandwiches ready at that time, then th~ ask you to
pull over to the side and they'll make it fresh for you and then bring it out. So their system
is a riffle bit different and, I'm not saying anything to dcgr~gat~ thegn. It works for th&
system where our system, we make the sandwich freath to order so we have everyone
designed so that they can deliver that sandwich in a fast convenient way.
Jurij Ozga: Most of our drive thru lane has a by-pass lane so in the instance that somebody
wants to pull out and go out into the street, so he's not stuck...
Boyle: On the south e~l of the building, how many parking spots are thee? How many
stalls, parking stalls on the south portion? Yes, in ths_t area them. I'm not trying to be a...,
just curious.
John Noga: 33.
Boyle: 33.
John Noga: We recomnmnd 35 on a lot so this will have almost that requirement just on one
side, not counting.
Chmiel: John, in delta'mining those basic needs, how do you normally look at that? Do you
look by what population is within a c~mmul~ty or how do you ~ne the bagic needs for
that?
John Noga: You look at an average market in terms of population base. Now because of the
Byerly's and the Target, we know that the population drawn to this market should run larger
than...the city. So we look for an average population of about 30,000 people to support the
store. And we believe we will have that since the Target and Byerly's uses a lot more than
that population to support their stores. We think your village will take off...and draw from a
lot of other villages inw the retail market...
Bohn: I have a question. If you came off of main street on the sidewalk, you wanuxi to go
into Wendy's, what sidewalk would you walk on?
Vemelle Clayton: 78th Street is what we call main street here~ You're coming along here
and...walk down there, over here or...
Bohn: Where's the sidewalk? You said walk.
22
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Vemelle Clayton: This is the sidewalk coming...
Bohn: Where does it end? Go back to right there. Yeah, right the~. You come in, inside
the Bdina building. Okay, you keep on walking.
Vcrnelle Clayton: Okay. This is essentially the sidewalk to the Edina building. Thi~ was
the sidewalk to the...
Bohn: So you have to wnlk all the way around the.
Vemelle Clayton: You can walk across there.
Bolm: There's no sidewalk then. There's no sidewalk in that curbing area them
Vemelle Clayton: No. The reason for that Tun is that we decided that the place for the real
sidewalk entrance to Market Square really was over here where it...this way over here and
they could. .. over to the rest of the.
Bohn: I was just thinking about pedes~ walking on the sidewalk coming from that
direction, walking to Wendy's.
John Noga: There is no break over in the landseap~g...
Vemclle Clayton: One of the reasons that we didn't do that is because we didn't want to
encourage people to come in here, park here and go into Wendy's, This is a fairly needed
parking lot slots.
Bolm: I was just thinking along the Edina Realty building. Keep on crossing the parking lot
over to Wendy's.
John Noga: Their own patrons can walk across.
Vemelle Clayton: Well they'll be coming out doors all along here and...cut across.
Bohn: No, I meamt on that westm'n side of the Edina Realty building. The sidewalk..aXTo, I
~t on the wes~ side of the Edina Realty. Right there. Keep going straight. Cross over
where that tree is and the sidewalk there connecting.
Vcrncllc Clayton: Well see that was thc problem with people coming in here to pazk and run
into Wendy's and take up the Bdina parking spots.
23
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
~ohn Noga: ...coming from this building. If they want~cl to have lunch, they could walk
across without walking on grass or stones or...
Bohn: Well in the winter time they'd be walking around the driveway because therc'd be
snow up there unless there was a sidewalk to keep them from walking inside the parking area.
Boyle: I believe maybe moving back onto the hearing itself regarding the land sale is
probably apropos at this time.
Gerhardt: At this point I guess I would suggest that the HRA close the public hearing.
Mason moved, Boyle seconded to close the public hearin~ All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The public hearing was clomL
Bohn: The public hearing is closed. I'd like to ask the question. We're buying this, or
selling this property back to the Bloomberg Companies for $2.50 a square foot?
Gerhardt: That is what the repurchase agreement calls for. I attached that agreement.
Chmicl: That's maybe what the question Jim's asking is, we're paying $3.25. He's looking
probably at $2.50. On the previous, one of the previous items that had been on.
Bohn: We're paying Mor~nson $3.25.
Chnfiel: Yeah. That was all contained within the agreement for the $2.50, is that correct?
Gerhardt: That is correct.
Boyle: And I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that was discussed in a previous meeting.
Gedmrdt: That was...
Chmiel: Yeah, but from my understanding too is that the buyer's going to pay all the general
real estate taxes that are levied against that property.
Gerhardt: Yes.
Chmicl: And in addition to that, at dosing they're going to pay in full or assume all unpaid
pending special levies that are there.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Gerhardu Well that was Vemelle's request that the incremeat generated off this site.
Cluniel: Yeah-
Gerhardt: That they would, the HRA use the increment gcnerauxi from both the Wendy's and
the retail office facility to pick those up. Right now the...calls for them to pay in full
Brad Johnson: Can I clarify something?
Bohn: Brad.
Brad Johnson: Back whenever that was, 1987-88 when we starl~ this project, we miginally
requested that we be allotted all of the TIF for these lots. Just like we did the rest of Market
Square. The city said no. But that they would be willing to have us pick up the special
assessments one day against the parcel Had that not been true, we probably would not have
agreed to all the special asses~ts that are now levied against the property. And this went
on for a long time. You rebuilt that road a number of different times and so...but I think you
can read the redevelopment agreement and you'll see that it says that we ~nnot request any
more than the special assessments that are pen_ding to be used as TIF, which is...about a year,
year and a quarter. Is that about right, for the whole project? It's not very much. And
maybe one of your staff can...and that's been the standard practice throughout the city...
You've done that with Charlie. You've done it with every deal we've done. We're just not
asking for any additional write downs or anything like that. And I think that's standard
policy...But we're not asking for that today.
Chmiel: You're right.
Mason: They're not asking for that today.
Chmiel: No.
Mason: Well, yeah. I mean I think this is, I look at this item as quite honestly kind of a
done ~ and that's cerutinly discussion we'll take up later on. Past practice or whatever.
With that in mind, I'm willing to make a motion on this.
Bohn: Do I hear a second?
Mason: In fact I'll wake the motion. There, I just made the motion.
Boyle: And the motion is?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Mason: We're in agreement to go ahead with thc resale of Outlot A and Lot 4, Block 1 to
B loomberg Companies based on the agreement as stated.
Boyle: I'll second
Mason moved, Boyle seconded that the HRA diFeet staff to execute an a~reement and
schedule the dosing for the resale of Outiot A and Lot 4, Block 1, Market Square to
Bioomberg Companie~ The terms of thi, agreement call for Bloomberg Companies to
pny the lIRA $2.S0 n squnre foot and pay nil the nssessments agninst the two lots. The
total estimated purchase price is approximately S200,O00.O0, not including special
assesmnents. AH voted in favor and the motion carried.
Geflmrdt: Staff would prepare a report at the next HRA meeting regarding the relocation of
the mmsf~ and special assessments...for l'eConsicle~afion.
APPROVAL OF BILLS.
Chmicl: We're st~fing to roll out thc checks.
Gerhardt: That's two months worth.
Mason: That's right. I saw that and went whoa, but it is 2 months. Yeah, thank you Don.
Bohn: What are we doing with BRW again?
Chmiel: So moved.
Mason: Second.
Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to approve the lIRA billa as presented. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
HRA PRESENTATIONS:
Bohn: Do we have any special HRA presentations, Todd?
Geflmrdt: The liRA presentations are any items that you may want to discuss. I do not have
any.
Mason: I move adjournment Mr. Chairman.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - May 19, 1994
Boyle: Well I have about 4 or 5.
Chmiel: I have just a couple. But that won't take very long. First question is, when do we
adjourn?
Mason: You're getting bitter at pulling my chnln Don. I don't know about that.
Bohn: Should we adjourn at 9:00?
Mason: $o moved.
Boyle: S~ond.
Mason moved, Boyle seconded to adjourn the meefinlb Ail voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 pan..
Submitted by DOn Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by N~nn Opheim