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EDA 1994 07 21CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REGULAR MEETING JULY 21, 1994 Chairman Bohn called the meeting to o~ler at 7:30 pA MEMBERS PRESENT: Don Chmiel, Mike Mason, Jim Bohn, Char~ Robbins and Gary Boyle MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd C, er~t, Asst. Executive Director ELECTION OF OFFICERS: Bohn: I'd ~ to nomin~ Gary Boyle as Chairman. Mason: I'd second that. B0hn moved, Mason seconded to appoint Gary Boyle as Chairman of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority. Ali voted in favor and the motion carried. Bohn: Can we have a nominee for the Vice ChsLrman7 Do I have a nomination for Vice Chairman7 Chmiel: How about Charlie? Charlie's been. Robbins: Ah nay. Nay. Based on the past conversation, nay. Chmiel: Okay. How about Sim? Boyle: I would second ~im as Vice Chair. Mason: Sounds good. Chmie~ moved, Boyle seconded to appoint Jim Bolm as Vice Chairman of the Housing and Redevdopment Authority. All voted in favor and the ~ carried. Bohn: Secretary. Chmicl: Mike Mason. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting - Suly 21, 1994 Boyle: Charlie, would you entertain secretory? Robbins: Nay. Boyle: I'll second Mike. Chmiel moved, Boyle seconded to appoint Mike Mason as Secretary of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority. AH voted in favor and the motion carried. Bohn: I'll turn over to our new C~tairman, Gary Boyle then. Boyle: Well Todd, do you know anyone here that wishes to address the HRA at this time? We could sure entertain them. Gerhardt: They were here but I don't know what happened. No, I do not know of any. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Boyle: Oh, we've got to approve the Minutes. We don't do that. Do you have the Minutes m approve? Gerhardt: Nann was swamped with some additional things. Commission Minutes so at this time we do not have the Minutes from our last meeting. And we would submit those at our next lIRA. Boyle: We'll just pass limt onto the next meeting then. I. JPDATE ON THE CONTRA~'r WITH ~ MEDICAL ART~ LIMITED PARTNERSHIP REGARDING THE SECOND PHASE OF THR PROJECT, Gerhardt: If you will remember at our last HRA meeting, staff asked for additional time to meet with the Medical Arts IAmited Parmership to cliscuss the private redevelopment agreement. It was 6 years since we entered into that agrecunent and some conversations that I had with several HRA me~ thought that we should see if the second phase was going to occur. If not, maybe we should relook at the agreement to see if it still existed or not. So we had a meeting with the Parmership on July 7th and we expressed some concern that we had with market values and land in the downtown area over the past 6 years. And they were amenable that they felt that they had gone up. They felt that you know they were held up a little bit too with the Lawn and Sports relocation activities that delayed their project and trying to get tenants in there. And we acknowledged our responsibility in holding them up. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting - Suly 21, 1994 We also expressed to them that we wanted them to be the developers. That the HRA was not looking at them to go out and find anybody else, so they appreciat~l thac So what we've come to terms with, with the changes is basically that we will stay with the terms of the existing agreement as to the option. Supporting the option which they have exemised. So they must dose on the ~ one year from the date that they sent a lettex to us. In the last packet there was a letter from the parm~ dated June 23, 1994 exercising that option. So they have one year from that date which is June 22, 1995 to close on this.., one year from the date of that closing to construct a facility. So since June 22nd, so the building would have to be complet~xi and occupied by June 22, 1996. And then the HRA aiso will; in the existing agreement, agreed to finish off the parking lot over there. Right now, when Bernie was there, you remember back when we were finishing off that parking lot, one of the reasons why we, staff recommended that we try to move Bernie is we wanted to finish the parking lot and his building was sitting on the land that we needed to finish that paridng lot. So right now, if you see that parking lot back there, it's not corr~.lete. And with the downtown project that is currently underway, we have._for that parking lot to be comp~ I would expect here in the next couple of wee~ you will see curb and gutter over there with the new driveway access put in to finish that parking lot off. So we will-meet that number 3 of the term of that agreement in the next couple of weeks. To give us some leeway, I put that date out to January 1, 1995. The cummt purchase ~ is $100,250.00 and we changed that based on some of our holding costs and the specials against the ~ and what we felt the best estimate was for the current market price for that pr~ up to $139~280.00. The current assessments over there for the parking lot and West 78th Street was $129,030.00. The liRA and the partnership would then have the HRA attorney draft a special a~.asment agreement with them to reflect these changes and also that they establish a minimum mark~ value of a half million dollars on the second phase. In lieu of that we will then ~ up $90,000.00 of the outstanding special... The last item, on the back page, is one if they do not complete this facility by January 1 of 1995, this year, the purchase price would increase by an additional $15,000.00. And then if they do not complete the building by January 1, 1996, then the purchase price would then rise by another $15,000.00. And you're going to say, well if we happen to close on the property here by August, how are we going to capture that $15,000.00 if we already got our money. I highlight in there that the pm-me,hip would waive their rights to us special assessing that property $15,000.00. And they agreed to that. So we would certify by November of 1995 an assessment of $15,000.00 against the property. With that staff would reco~ that the liRA approve the modifications as listed above and direct us to develop a private redevelopment agreement to include all those conditions. Boyle: Do you have a motion? Discusdon first? Chmiel: Yeah. Or you can have your motion, either or. Boyle: I thought the motion then discussion. We'll take a motion first and then discussion if we could. Chmiel: I would so move. Mason: Second. Boyle: Discussion. Chrnieh Two things that I'd just like to comment on. In putting in the drive and the parking lot portion that you're talking about, is it wise to do that prior to co~on? Gerhardt: That's a good comment. We discussed that with the parmer~hip and we, that was one of the conditions that we felt that they were holding. You know as you look at the agreements and everybody's trying to position themselves, they were saying that we had not complied with the private redevelopment agreement since we hadn't completed the parking lot. And our argument was that the reason we haven't completed the parking lot is why compl~ a parking lot when you're going to go build a building and tear it all up. They said no. We can build around those improvements. So we are moving ahead and putting the improvements in and any damage that would occur to those would be their responsibility to Chmiel: And that would be contained within the contract agreem~t? Gerhardt: We would get a letter of credit...before they got the building permit. Boyle: Is the parking to thc rear Todd? Gerhardt: Yes. Boyle: The same as now. So the addition to the building would be an extension of what's currently there, is that correct? ~t: Yeah. If you want to get a visual image of it, if you would take the Medical Arts Building to the east of there and cut it, the lower level off and take the lower level and just drop the building completely down is what you'll have there. It's a mirror ima~ of the othe~ building but only one story. Bohn: I noticed they were surveying out there yesum/ay afternoon. Gerhardt: Yeah, that's for thc curb. Chmiel: Second co~t that I had. I have to commend you on cleaning up that site. It looks good. I think that just shows that we're not exempt from it as far as the city's concerned and I think taking that initiative as you did_; I appreciate it Gerhardt: I think this is another step in lxying to clean up the site. It's still; as you drive around that comer, it's not the most beau~ thing so, try to get it fini,h_ed off and completing that second phase. And I think the pm-m~p apprecia~t the pressure we put on them because that made the Medical Arts people get off their horse and make a decim'on mo. If they're going to be there or not be there. And so they've made that decision, the partnership has made me aware that through their negotiations with the Medical Arts they have agreed to enter into a lease for that second phase. So I'm expecting in a couple months, as soon as the plans and specs are done, that they will be calling for a building permit. Is what they have told me. Boyle: Any other discussion7 Charlie7 Sim7 Mike7 Mason: No. Chmiel moved, Mason seconded that the HRA modify the private redevelopmmt agreement to include the conditions listed in the stuff report and direct the attorney to prepare the necessary document~ AH voted in hvor and the motion carried. PRESENTATION BY MICHAEL 8(~IROEDER ON ~ PROPOSED ENTRY MONUMENTS. Gerhardt: I guess an inlro for Mike here. As you may remem~, we had a joint meeting with the City Council and the lIRA to talk about entry monuments throughout the downtown area and ~Idng each of the bodies what areas they felt were important to see entry monuments at And the conclusion that we came with from these meetings was, is that you wanted to see...physical entry monument sign or statement with a fixture of some sort at Market Boulevard and West 79th $1reet And that at Powers and Highway 5 and West 78th Street, Outlot B of Target, you wanUxi to see some type of landscape theme in that area. And then the third area was the Taco Shop and the Red-E-Mix area and you also wanted to see a landscape theme in that intersection. Tonight Mike has put some rough drawings wgether with alternatives of each of these areas for your review and comment. And direction to Mike and slaff of how you'd like to see that area develop. I think he had some rough cost estimates to go along with each of the alternatives... Michael Schroeder: Okay, like Todd says, just for direction we're taking these around now to staff. Dave and Todd...and we'll be tsking them up to the City Council next week. 'I'nere are no firm or concrete ideas but they do build off of ideas that were started with the 2002 process. One of the ideas that was brought out during those ideas which I think was well received was thc idea of making three main cntrances to downtown. Powers Boulevard, at Market Boulevard and then at thc AVR~aco Shop site. And to use the landscape theme as thc dominant character clement for each of those and let that character somehow form the streetscape, at least towards the center of the downtown. So at Powers Boulevard we focused on a treaunent that uses oak trees. At the Market Boulevard focusing on the wetlands and the ponds, and out at the Taco Shop, on sugar msples. And I have a couple of ideas for each site. Each site is a little bit different. I'll start out with the Taco Shop site because it's probably the most complex but it also has some other features that might play along with it. There's two ideas I'd like to talk about for this site. First of all the site has a configuration that makes it difficult to use. It's also quite difficult to access. The pedestrian bridge is here. The Hanus building is here. Dakota Avenue/Highway 101 is over here. And what we wanted to try to do is somehow get sugar maples at the introduction to Omnhassen at that point. To focus views back towards the bridge using sugar maples on one side, because of the restriction of the sight lines. And the second, using crab apples or something lower, ornamental. But the idea at this point is just a long corridor room at the gateway that will focus views back towards the pedestrian bridge. It's idna of a gateway landmazk for this part of the entry experience. But tied with that is what you actually use the space for. It's a fairly large space. Not accessible but vehicles but very acce~ble because of the pedestdan bridge and it is tied in with the pedesuian passes built along the north leg of TH 101 now. At some point in the past there was discusdon by at least one of the Council _members, about wanting to do some kind of a commemorative planting at a particular site. Actually the site that they had identified was the site down the~ where the fast food are~ would be. And as we thought about it, we thought it might not be a bad idea but that's probably not the right site. But maybe there's a way that we can use that idea on this site to make it into truly a park like setting with a natural meaning behind it. It won't be an active use park but maybe there can be some other meaning. And what we looked at in both of these schemes is two configurations that develop a pafldand setting with maybe a comm~ve walk at least through marking the events in Chanhassen's history. And I think it's even appropria~ now as you look wwards 1997, and I believe that's the 100th, the centennial for Chanhassen. Maybe this could be a way to top some of those ideas, '967 Chmiel: I think so, isn't it? Michael Schroeder: Well we've got to move faster then. But a way to maybe fie some of the ideas of the centennial back to a park. A natural place that's developed to celebrate that. Makes it happen with marking two things. It's nmddng people through dedication of trees and a grove or along a walkway. Or in this case, in a more distinct grove in thc center. And also extracting the walk at the enUance of Chanhass~ as an introduction and a time line so as you move along the walk there could be plaques or castings or something marking events that have been significant in the first 100 years of Chanhassen. That's a way to introduce a specific use to this site that seems to fit it's chamc~. It's not something that anyone would ever drive to. Other feattu~ about this~ Thia plan versus this plan. This one has taken some m.~2surcs to protect sornc of the sounds and intrusion of cars on Highway 5 by creating some more dcfinit~ hedgerows and b~ pulling the path back farther and creating oth~ objects which tend to shelter people. This one here might be a little more exposed but the idea is to try to creat~ a parkland cnvironmeat as part of the catty start. The second is to look at the Market Boulevard entries, which is the one that was mentioned as thc location for some kind of monumentation and we've developed a couple different schcmes. I'll start out with this one here. Wc looked at a way in which we could create a different kind of a feeling fight at to wrap the whole site with a oak and maple frame. Playing off of the clements from both ends and bringing them into thc center. This one 1~ thc sign on a ~ of ~ea land where it's vcr~ close to the roadway. Quit~ promin~t, That's one way of looking at it, Thia one looks at it a little differently and has a couple of r~frcrcnt ideas in it, One is that we're going to u~ and celebrate thc wetlands that circle this intersection. We thought about ways that we could acmall), enhance that. Right now poop~ and I think generally people don't recognize wetlands as a fcattuc of thc cnvironm~t, But th~ do rccogniz~ water bodi~ as a featttrc of the enviromncnt, We can expand wetlands at each of th~ corners, or at the~ two opposit~ corners and still maintain thc sense of arrival and celebration of crttry. By expanding thc wm~ surface wc can actuall)' pla)' up thc idea of wetland. In this case, once wc excavate thc corner for a pond, the oppormniti~ for developing signage at that intersection become limited. B)' thc wa)' of introducing signagc again might bc to place signage in a relationship with the landscapo. How you act,_,~_]l)' view the Chanhasscn landscape and it's usuall)', )'ou view clcn~nts across a fcamrc of thc landscape. Across thc field or across a wetland to an object in the background. 8o ma)bo the sign is locau~l at thc back side of thc fountain. You view it looking across thc pond. Across thc pond and to thc signs in the background. So the two ways that the~ might can7 through on top, thc sign is located vcr~ close. It might have a chazact~ that is similar to som~ of thc other monum~tation that we've looked at where it's a vcr~ simple base and a symbol of Chanhas~a, the maple leaf placed on top of it, It's rclafio~p to th~ roadwa)' gives it a lot of prominence. I've shown a sketch he~ that shows it about 22 fe~ long and ma)'b~ about 12 fcct high. It's not an overwhelming clement and as we look at it, there arc ways to introduce lighting and other th~gs into this to mak~ it int~'~ng at night, Th~ second id~ where wc look across thc pond, has the advantage of being able to f~]! in a spot in th~ landscape that's kind of missing and opens to thc back sicle of Festival Foods. And docs it with a sign that uses more of a, ~ the Holl)~ood sign where it's vicw~ across the landscal~. Where it's letters that ~ out Chanhasscn but thee're set into a landacat~ at th~ back side of the pond. And create a strong back drop against thc Festival Foods site. Thc last one that we looked at is thc entry that is at Powers Boulevard and this one wc talk~ about an oak theme. Playing off the oaks that have bccn saved when Target was dcvclopai and there arc also sornc remnant oaks in thc new dc-veldt up behind Bycrl¥'s. But t~ can bccon~ a powerful element in trying to ~fine the intersection. As you move through thc int~z~'don this wa)', this whole portion of land kind of drops awa)'. It doesn't provicle a focus. In fact what you sec is a vcr~ th~ strip at thc top of thc building. What we'd ~ to do is use large features of the environment like oaks to try and frame that intersection and create focus on the intersection instead of at the warehouse buildings and also an area where we can manipulate the landform to introduce other things that are chlu'acl~'isfic of oaks and...like shrub roses, to provide some color and other highlights to the inte.~'~'tion. As this is developed, we would like_, to be able to suewh it up Powers Boulevard to make the connection back to the oaks at Target. To make sure that there are view can'idars going back to the Target sign and the front door of Target. And also to ~nd_ ways to introduce oaks into the development of the fast food site. And these are characterized in this sketch at the bottom. Whereas a room that you actually are drawn into and focused in on the other side~ Second part of this is to try and assign cost to this and the cost I think are really have to be considered at a concept level fight now. We looked at this and there are a lot of elements that have w play into this. When we try to consider what the potential costs for developing an entry at any one of these points might be, and the one that will probably strike everyone at all these sites is the one about earth wozk. I think that sites like the AVR site has been really disturbed. In order to create an environment that works like a pm~ there may be a fair amount of manipulation of landform in order to make it work well In order to make it work as a park and as an entry statement. If we go to the option where we dealt with the excavation of ponds, there's a cost there. What I tried to do is outline what all of those are so that we could understand the implications of the concepts as I've illusuated them. And then see if it's a direction that can be pulled out relating w the positive aspects of any one of these to the cost that might be tied to it. Boyle: Thank you Mike, very good. Why don't we §o back and start at the very be~nning then. At the first one and discuss it. Take one step at a time. Okay, and we're talking about TH 101 and the AVR site as we come in. TH 101 coming into town. You made a comment that what has currently been done would require a lot of correction? Michael Schroeder: Possibly. We don't have, at this point, the current topography so we're not really sure what the underlyin§ condition of the ground farm is. We know what it is when we approach the bridge and we know now that it falls off quite a bit. There may be, in order to get things to grow well, some amount of soil ~ons that would be necessary. We have to investigate that a little bit. Boyle: Is any of this land, and I open this up to anybody. Has any of thi~ land between TH 5 and the railroad developed? Possible for development? Todd, maybe you know. There's not much there is it. Chmiel: No. Bohn: Thc biggest problem is you can't §ct to it. Gerhardt: Well the big thing with it is, that you're going to have, there's not enough depth to the land. You're woridng with, I tried to visualize what you can put back there. I mean when you take a look at the Taco Shop and the Red-E-Mix, they did not have a lot of building square footage with them. I mean the Taco Shop was pushing maybe 2,000 square feet. 2,500 and then the Red-E-Mix itself was in atl probably a total of 5,000. You know when you talk about building pads of that size, it just, you just can't fit too much of a building back there and the building that you do put back there, you're going to have to put the parking lots on either side of the building. You know either on the east or the west side of it so it's going to be real ~t to make a pazking area and building attractive back along there. But it could be developed. Michael Schroeder: I think one of the limitations is really access. You're not going to get access on Highway 5 and the amount of space available for access along Highway 101 is quite limiled. And would be limited to a right-in, right-out. Which far most uses is pretty restrictive. Gerhardt: Yeah, it would have to be a planned destination type of bus/ness that would have to go back there. The one attribute to the site is you would have unbelievable exposure. People will know where you are so. And if they can see you, as long as they can find some way of getting there. I'm sure anybody that would come there would want some type of off Boyle: Mike, what have you got to say7 Do you prefer one over the other or any comments7 Mason: You know at this point I don't. It's hard for me to visualize this kind of stuff. Just seeing the drawings like this. Boyle: Looking at the drawings I kind d... (There was a tape change at this point in thc discussion~) Michael Schroeder: ...frame that's around. And how big this actually will get to be, we don't know. In order to figure that out, we would have to create models and more study tirade mo Boyle: By well groomed we're talking grass. Michael Schroeder: Grass. Mowed of some kind. Or at least something that would contain an elevation or a height. So it might be a shorter mix and a taller mix in thc background uausitioning to the... Chrniel: Would any of these, I always think a nice soft touch in looking at a convnnnity is the flower beds within. Have we thought any about that at all? Michael Schroeder: We haven't looked at flower beds particulnrly and one of the reasons that, and we can look at it more. One of the rensons that I didn't was because this is a 55 mph environment and in order to get enough flowers for people to notice, you would have to have thousands and then you'd be talking about hiring one person to mow grnss. You could hire another person just to... Mason: Well you're in charge of... Chrniel: Well we have a garden club. People who are interested in doing this. Gerhardt: I think the flower club has got a lot more priorities. Mason: You're right. That would be a lot of flowers. Michael Schroeder: ...downtown inlm'secfion wlmre people are stopping. Chrrdel: I'm thinking about how we grab more people into the community. If you get a lot of flowers out there, women absolutely love that. Women control the purse strings and can bring those purses into the community. Mason: I hope this Lan't on tape. Holy cow. I kind of like the idea of the steps from groomed into the wild flowers into the trees or whatever. That sounds, I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued by what that could possibly look like. Boyle: I am too. And that would, we still have the pond on the, on our left. Michael Schroeder: There are clements of these that could be interchangeable. You can take a sign from this one and inlroduce it to this one. You could take e~panded pond areas or you can make the groomed area for this one and put it with this one. At this point, they had assembled ideas in partiozlar ways just to show ideas of Boyle: Do you think the sign behind the pond is too far away from the highway to be noticed? Michael Schroeder: Well, it would have to be large. But at the same time if you make it large, it has to be subtle because in order to work and the landscape...celehrate the things we're doing about wetlands and oaks and maples, we don't want something that's over powering. The thing that I like about _this is the view across the pond, is if you travel up and down Highway 5, that's how you see downtown Chanhassen. You're looking across fields or you're looking across wetlands. You never get right up next to it. 10 Mason: Which is kind of neat. Gerhardt: Mike, can you show the concept of that one where we're looking at the tilted leaf or the falling leaf? Michael Schroeder: If I bring this up closer so it's easier to see. Gerhardt: Oh there it is. Michael Schroeder: This is the one with the tilted leaf. The one that's on the fight over here where the sign is up close and more manicured environment. This is about a 6 foot person. This is about the size of the sign and I've tried to fairly acctuately represent what it is. It's not an overwhelmingly large sign but it's right up close to the highway. The one on the other hand, and this is a little more difficult to read...~t the sign is visible through an opening in trees behind the fountain and it's res~dlng fight across the back but where you would otherwise be looking at the back of Festival Foods. The top line is the line of Festival Foods. And it might be developed in an environment specifically with the back drop of evergreens. The sign elements which are really cut out letters mounted someh~ on posts with, in this case, probably something to bring the grade up above the level of the water a little bit. And in this, we had thought about, if you were to have color, this would be the place to have color. Massive color right at the base of this sign. Boyle: Most of these signs are viewed only on westbound traffic, right? Michael Schroeder: Well actually this one here. Boyle: Westbound and then coming into town I guess. Michael Schroeder: Right. Well it would be, if you were to really try and do this right, with two signs, you would try to put them at oppo~ng comer~ With the grade it doesn't work out well. This starts to fall away and then we were trying to conserve costs. But it doesn't seem appropriate to try and put a sign on the opposite side of the highway of downtown. This could be developed so that it reads from both j_des. You'd have C'hanhassen on both sides of this sign. The maple leaf would read the same. Whichever way you're looking at it. I think we would try and do something, maybe more interesting than just a solid cut out of a maple leaf, like the one behind it. Maybe we'd do something that's more of a silhouette...where we can introduce special lighting effects at night where it's actually an outline of a maple leaf rather than a solid maple leaf. Chmiek That would be sort of neat. And using those during the spring of the year and keeping that leaf as a green leaf and as the fall leaves start to a~, change that lighting. 11 Mason: Hey, that would be cool Boyle: Jim, would you like to comment on anything? Bohu: I like the sign. I still lik the idea of the light, the sign across the pond. I keep thinking about vanda~ Well I keep thinking vandals on all of them because I can see some kid lum~ng up on the H. Mason: Then we'd have to give him H if he did that. Boyle: Matt, would you like to make any comments? You're welcome if you have some input. Matt Ledvina: No, I don't have any comments at this point. I guess I have some preferences or whatever but we're going to see that in the Planning Commission so. Boyle: Okay. Michael Schroeder: I think the point of vandalism is i .mportaut. All these signs are adding exposed, potentially unprotected environn~nts and we would have to make sure as we go forward to develop in a way that are going to resist that. We know they're going to get vandalized. I think we have to start out with that assumption and create signs that can with stand a fair amount of things. Boyle: We'll put an electric fence around it or ~g. Mason: Well or just electrocute the sign. Boyle: I'm kind of leaning more right now, with some_ mtxiifications, probably to, what do you call it. The lower, the one on our fight Maybe with stuff, I like the sign on the other one but...it would be too big for that side. I like the idea of a sign, a smaller sign and having Chanhassen on both sides. So you're seeing it both ways coming plus a little bit angled as you're coming in to Market Boulevard. It'd make a nice stalement. Yet not obtrusive. That's my feeling. Mason: I think I've probably already, thc one on thc right looks interesting to me. I lhink there's, it is kind of the central area and just to have that little green sword if you will, around that can be kind of cool I think at some point we need to have a fairly rousing discussion as to whether we want signs or not. Boyle: That's a good point. 12 Mason: You know. I ~ I don't. Boyle: I'm more... Mason: Right. And that may be and that's fine. I think even krespecfivc of the cost, I think Chanlmssen's on the map one way or the other. I mean I think we've ~deflnil~ly established a name for ourselves in the metro. And I'm not, at this point I'm not saying I'm for or against the signs but a lot of money and I wond~ if that money could be ~ spent in oth~ areas. And maybe we do. Again, I'm not saying we don't want the signs. I just think it's something I'd like all of us to grapple with a little bit. Just throw that out I guess. Boyle: That sign in that 25, I mean co~ to some of the things we've seen, it impresses me to look at a sign that might be 25, maybe a little bit more it's a full sign. I mean $25,000.00 kind of seems, gee. That looks good compared to some things. Mason: Well that sure is true. Yeah. Michael $chrceder: I think your comments are well taken. I remember that from City Council as I left here thin~ng that it's not the sign itself that's ~icin§ injury, it's the landscape or the environment that we're trying to shape into a design and quite a bit more subtle but once people recognize it, I think it's more memorable. Mason: Yeah. Yeah, inte~sting. Boyle: Again, maybe inlm-mingle in some evergreens in that too. Again, one person's opinion. Mason: Well I don't think we can, weJl obviously ~ does stand for sugar maple. Make no mistake but I agree with what you're saying. Prom October to April, I think any color we can get in there I think would be just, I'm all in favor of that. All in favor of that. Chmiel: Yeah, and I think another thing you're going to have to really look at is placement of those with sprays of the salt. And whether or not they'll sustain. Boyle: In this one most of them are kind of back though. It looks like now when you see how with that shaded area and your trees are back a ways from that. Chmiel: Sprays go a great distance and evergreens are very susceptible to that Mason: Yep. No, that's a rea~ good point. Chmiel: I'm agreeing with your point too though but what setbacks have to be there and how 13 do we do that7 Boyle: Anything else? Can we move to the third one down by Target then. West entry. For future development that's going to go. These buildings, is that the proposed, I don't Oerhardl: I must have read your mind but that's what I was just going to say. Perkins and Taco Bell submimxl this week and I think that Mike has got it pretty close to tmilding locations. Michael Schroeder: It gets close by the time because I didn't get the plan until after I talked to you. This building is actually maybe shifted a little further over. This one is in about the right location. This is actually turned more this way. Gerhardt: Thc third one hasn't, it hasn't committed yet. Right now it's just Taco Bell and Perkins and thc third one hasn't committed but they have put a concept of what they might Mason: Which is the Perkins and the Taco Bell there7 Geltmrdt: The Perkins is the one closest to TH 5 and that would be Taco Bell. Boyle: The other one looks fairly large. Can you say who's intrusted? ~t: It's probably going to probably be a Burger King, something along that line. And Hardee's. Blockbuster Video. Something of that sort. This plan I don't think does the entire site justice. I mean it really has, you know it's tough to visualize but there's a lot of green area around these buildings. Michael Schroeder: Yeah...I had to do was s.c~__~lly get the correct site plan on here. But it brings out a point that I'd like to at least address. Is that as we start to develop spaces like this or we try to carry through a theme, maybe not a lot of cultured plantings but at least a theme planting, there's no reason why that same theme couldn't be extended through this kind of development to make it work even better. Mason: I would really like to see that. Michael Schroeder: Right now the plan for these two bnildlngs that were submitted, doesn't do that. I think it has 5 or 6 different kind~ of I/ecs on a 3 acre site. Which is nice to have that many trees but it might be better if we were to try and make it a part of this entry monument. 14 Mason: That makes a lot of sense to me. To connect the two. You know I'll admit to being a little partial to that comer because I live off Kerber Boulevard and go down Powers Boulevard frequently. But I see this comer as potentially bec:orning the ugly ca:Hller. Boyle: It's going to be a difficult one Mike because as you come off TH 5, you're looking at telephone lines. Mason: I know it. And now I hear, you know no offense to Burger King or Hardee's or Blockbuster, but I hear those going in there and I'm going well, now we're talking ugly with a capital U. So I really, I ~ I think of the Mazket Boulevard intersection and you know, that doesn't look half bad the way it is right now. I mean it rely doesn't. I mean it's nice and wide and open with the little pond there and the AVR site is going to, that's got to ~ care of itself there. I mean I'm concerned about this corner. I really am. So I, boy. Michael, I ~ what you said about incorporating that site plan with the whole deal there. Boy, that makes a lot of sense to me. Gerhardt: One of the other things I think ~ should show in here, because this really has the potential of being Market Boulevard over again because you, the city in it's planning of West 78th Street and the extension out to the park, is the pond. Michael Schrocder: On this corner here. Chmiel: There will be one there. Mason: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Gerhardt: That will be pond and landscaping. You won't see the, so you basically have somewhat the same idea. I mean West 79th Street separates anything in there but I just wanted to make that comanent. That you will see the pond out there. Boyle: Thc only corner that I think is really a concern here is, it's going to be very dit~cult to do, I repeat is the one where thc building's on. The Target site. Yes, that's going to be a tough one. Bohn: How much land do we have there? Gerhardt: Well we're selling, they're developing a little under 4 acres and we're reminin.' g almost I thinir 3 in there. Mason: On that side? 15 Michael Schroeder: It's all the edges going around this way. Boyle: Wc really need a pretty good idea of what we're going to put in there before we start approving thc rest of it because then we can get the builders to comp~t what else we're doing I guess, fight? Mason: That's an excellent point. Boyle: Get a pretty good idea. I really don't have answers to that. Bohn: We should have this done so they can't stop us. Once we've got it in, they can't say take it out. It's going to affect our building. Chmieh Yeah. One of the things that we are the property owners of that paw& or the last one and we don't necessarily have to sell it either. We can choose and pick as to who we really want in there. Matt Ledvinm Would that be a planned unit deveiotmaent? Chmiel: No, I don't think so. Matt Ledvina: Those am..xight7 Chmieh Yeah. Matt Ledvina: For that area so we could...was most of it a planned unit development? Mason: I don't recall what the development contract says for Ryan on that. Don, do you7 For that comer. Chrniel: I'm just trying to think and I don't. Mason: Yeah, that's something we should look into Matt. Now that's a good point. Because I think we need leverage on that corner. Clearly. Gerhardt: This is everything outside of this line is what you're retaining here. Near the green area. So t~is is the green area that will go along with it. This is your future development of that The County right-of-way that goes along with it and as to the designs of the buildings, they've done a fairly good job of laying those out. This being the Perkins here. I think this kind of matches in. If you've been over in Woodbuty, is I think the most current Perkins. And this is their concept. Now one of the things that Kate and Mike and I are going to look at is the contours off of Highway 5 as you look on this is a flat mansard 16 roof. So it's open up above. It's not completely. Chmieh Can we dome it? Gerhardt: Then Taco Bell is almost...mirror image of this but smaller in scale and this is an example of the one over in Eden Prairie off of 169. Chmieh Yeah, that's not too sharp. Bohn: Can you see the mechanical stuff on top of the roof for both of tho~? Gerhardt: That's why I said. We're going to have to check the conWurs and see what we can make on top of that and that will be a concern of the Planning Commission and Council. They're, as we see it, they're going to have to raise it or enclose it. One of the two. Michael Schroeder: I would like to add one more thing about the principles that we might learn about this site and the themes that we're developing there and as a result of one of the meetings we had, it was acumlly a discussion we had before we started talking about the problem too with the Planning Commission. And that there is still a potential for developing in a subtle way, a landscaped statement that would signify entries at other parts of the Highway 5 corridor. As I started thinking about it and Nancy was the one that made the comment, that maybe we should look at how we can introduce these same kinds of themes at different sites as they develop. So that the city isn't bmdened with the cost but at least there is some statement that recalls what we're trying to do at Powers Boulevard with oaks for example. And as I drive down the corridor, the first major intersection seem~ to me to be the one that says, this is an entry point. And Dell Road on the other end. It's the same kind of space. I think we might want to congder looking at how those sites, as they're privately developed, might reinforce what we're doing with the patterns and m,_u~_'_s!s of the landscape of the Highway 101 entry and the Powers Boulevard entry. Boyle: I think everybody would agree on that. Gerhardt We gave Mike a copy of their landscape plan~ He has a copy of thaL..and would expect probably a letter back from you in a couple weeks...recomme~ a specific species type for the parking lots and then the overall landscape plan. Boyle: Direction, I'm not quite sure. I really don't know how to direct that except to make that corner look as nice as possible considering what might go in there. I don't know, Mike. Mason: Well put. ~ it Mike. Boyle: Jim, would you like to comment? 17 Bohn: Whatever we do, wc have to do it pmty quick before they come along and say, anything we do will block thc view of their buildings in there. Boyle: Well, tough. I mean excuse me. I really don't mean it that way but part of what we're doing here is to compliment the building maybe is a better word than block the b~_ilding. You can't say block the building because you want to compliment. Gerhardt: We've never landscaped anything to block it. I mean the Hanus building may be probably the closest but we made sure that we reserve sight lines for signs and things like that. The screening thing, if they're going to put a dnmpster out there, we're going to put heavy landscape around that area. You know in concert with their's. Boyle: It almost has to be done in conjunction I think_ Maybe not nmning ahead first and putting our's in and then let them come in because then you start teadng in and out. You've got to do it all at one time, don't you. Gerhardt: That's why Mike is here. This is why the plans are in front of you. I mean we're not so worried about Red-E-Mix and Market Boulevard at this time. But these guys, with our priva~ redevelopment agreement, they need to be in the ground here by this fall Boyle: Oh, they're moving that quickly. Has ~is been to the Planning Conm:tission yet'? Gerhardt: It goes in August sometime I think. In August. And they need to be...fairly quickly for approval because they need to be opened and occupied by the first of the year to get the incentives that you have agreed to give them. And they're already looking at us that you're going to try to delay us and hold this up. We, staff has been working. Chrniel: Well that's their problem, not our's. I mean they had that oppcl~u~ty to come in much prior to this time frame. C-er~t: And that's what I told them. Chrniel: Yeah. Don't let them pull that stuff on us. Gerhardt: That's why Mike is here so we can't hold them up saying that we have to design our landscape plan first before you come in. Boyle: I think can't you do it all together. Michael Schroexier: I think if we plan it together, even if this doesn't get installed at the same time, as long as...together, I think we'll be in the game. The comments about visibility to buildings, I as a landscape architect seeing trees grow. Trees I planted early in my career 18 are still small trees and are not blocking any buildings. Retail developers will always say you plant the tree, you can't see my bniltting. Well I know that when you build a 5,000 square foot building, it takes an awful lot of trees to screen it when... And by the time the trees get large... Mason: And you know, I'll go back to the comment I made about Chanha~saen a few minutes ago. I mean Chanhas~o's on the map and these people want to be bnildlng here. And we've gone round and round about that with other restaurants and what not that have devcloped here and made time and time agsin say they can't do it and well lo and behold, they can. And the business is doing well and they like the trees and this, that and the other thing. So you know, I think they'll get a message fairly loud and clear that it's going to be done thc way Chanh~sen wants it done and we're glad to have you here but. Gerhardt: ...we just want to try to get through the process and get your comments... Boyle: Good. Michael, do you need more direction? Michael Schroeder: No. I'm going to be meeting with the City Council next and continue meeting with Todd and di~t staff and msybe with Planning Commi~on. I don't know if it will fit on your next meeting but hopefully if not then, another special meeting. Geflu~t: At least one pan of the three I think will have to go in with the site plan and Target. And either with the site plan ar just before the iron that the Plauning Cowmission can at least see what feedback the HRA and City Council will give them ~is last week. Or coming week. Mason: This isn't coming up on Monday's City Council is it? Mason: Well I'm not going to be here. But Wing isn't going to be either you know. ~t: I thought he told Kate he was going to fly in. Chrniel: Well, he wasn't quite sure. Mason: I thought that was on the 8th he was going to. Chmiel: Yeah, well one of those two. Crerhardt: We can, I mean ~ can come out and meet with Dick personally on it too. We're not looking far, I m just what you did tonight was perfect. That's the direction we 19 were looking for. Which concept we should be using and including thc sign or not including the signs. Maintenance items... Mason: So there are really no major deds/ons to be made yet. Gerhardt~ Or Monday night...Dick is going to meet with him maybe 10 or 15 time~ Boyle: Well I thank you very much. Excellent job. UPDATE ON VISION 2002 PROCESS. Cerhardl: I think last month or a couple months ago I said this was going to show up on your agenda for thc next couple of months. Our last meeting of the ad hoc group, I believe both Don and Fun were present and we presented the concept of the...the newsletter is much larger. It's 11 x 17 piece of paper and in flint we attached the Minutes of our last ad hoc meeting with quite a few changes that went dong. I think Mike's going to probably spend the next month and a half just making the changes. Or making the graphics readable. But the concept of the newsletm' was what I wanted to address to you tonight. To give you a feel of what, how it's going to be laid out and what's going to be included. Basically the theme of it was approved and showing the different principles that we're trying to inc~ into the downtown. How the plan was appwved and how we went through the process. And how we are planning on including it and some priorities that were estab~ throu~ the process. And the newsletter is going to highlight that. The biggest concerns that I think the ad hoc committee had was the graphics. That as this thing goes out, you know make sure that people can read it. Make it legible. They want to clean up some of the terminology that we've been using. I think we called it Focus on the Center. I think they want to say, Focus on the Downtown now as one of the key elements. They wanted to use some different graphics, different pictures that depicted better examples of pitched roofs and building maim'ids that they felt were appropriate. Again, it was more of the graphics and the hand written notes and things that went dong with that that they wanted to see coming back. And the one other thing was they didn't want all this process to be coming down is we're expecting this newsletter to go out here in the second-third week of August. With that, we will follow up with a survey with Decision Resources. Some of you may know of them. They do, I want to say 90% of all the surveys in the metw area for school districts. Cities. Anybody that's considering a referendum. About political views. We've used them to try to get what the residents in the area are either thinking or wanting. So they're a real professional group. They use a scientific methodology and they can take a sample and get a pretty good idea of what the citizens think of our process and our ~ndings. And then from that, we will take the data from the survey and the data that we've collected to these meetings and present that over to the Planning Commi~on by yourself and the city. Go to you first Then to the Planning Conlw. i~ion, City Council for their final approval of the plan. And then take that plan... (Taping of thc meeting ended at ~s point in thc disctmion~) APPROVAL OF BILLS: Chmid moved, Mason seconded to approve the bills as presented. AH voted in favor and the motion carried. The sneering was adjourned. Submitted by Todd C,~r~t Asst. Executive Director ~ by Nann Opheim 21