EDA 1995 01 19CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND
I~I~BEVF_J~PMP/gT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 19, 1995
Chairman Boyle called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
~ER~ PRF_$~ Don Chmiel, Charlie Robbins, and GaO' Boyle.
Mason arrived to the meeting late.
STAFF PRE~ENT: Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive Director
Jim Bohn and Mike
APPROVAL OF MINUTIa: Chmiel moved, Robbins seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting as presented. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
VI~ITOR PRF~ENTATION~; None.
REVIEW 1995 GOALq AND 1994 A~'-~OMPIJ~I:IMI~4-TS~
Boyle: Todd, I don~t know if we really need to go over piece by piece, unless these
gentlemen would like to. Why don~t we do it on an exception basis. If there's any questions
or comment on any of these, we could do so at this time. Well there's J'ma. Had us worried
there Sim. I have one question Todd. On paragraph 4, Market Square development, and I
should know this but Lots 2 and 3 are where?
Gerhardt: They're directly north of Subway. They're very small lots and Brad is working
with a couple of clients right now. A good example would be like a...would go in there.
Boyle: Oh just small stuff.
Gerhardt: Yeah. The biggest issue that they're having to deal with right now is parking over
there. So they're trying to, one of the lots may become the parking lot for the other lot. So
he's coming up with some concepts. Trying to get numbers to work and things like that so I
would expect probably something within the next two months back to you.
Bohn: I just talked to my brother in law who's got...and I asked him about that lot being
developed and he said, we don't have enough parking over here. They're going to have to
make more parking to put anyflzing in there. But where are they going to get the parking
from. One of those lots doesn't quite, Wendy's opened up and.
Gerhardt: Wendy's is kind of doing the old shuffle of pushing the employees over in front of
the hardware and pushing them over into Festival. So they got that all squared out now and
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
they're parking back on site. They just wanted to get their building as visible at the
beginning oi: their opening as possible so people you know would have parking, and trying to
deal with extra customer service...
Robbins: I guess Mr. Chairman, based on the way it's stated, it says update. Attached is the
update on '94. It says review. Prepare to discuss. Are we looking for a motion or just to say
yes, we've reviewed them and we refer to the Council?
Boyle: I don't read a motion is needezt anywhere in here.
Gerhardt: No. Sust...you might want to make known individually. Did I miss anything?
Any modification that you would want to see. And just to keep you informed of where we
are with some of the '94 accomplishme.ots and how we're moving into '95 and if you want to
direct staff to go aheaut and present these to City Council...
Robbins: So at this point then we're not looking for a motion. We're just, this is more of just
to tell us what's going on?
Bohn: This isn't cut and...?
Gerhardt: No.
Bohn: We can change.
Robbins: I guess what I would defer to...for his action.
Boyle: Is there any questions of anybody. J'ma, when we opened the meeting, we have
already approved the Minutes. Did you have any questions on those?
Bohn: No.
Boyle: Okay, then we moved to this. Rather than going through each one of the 10
paragraphs or each one of the 10 goals and review one at a time, we thought we'd do it on an
exception basis. If anybody had any questions that they would like to discuss.
Belin: The only question I had is, can we change anything?
Boyle: And that answer is affirmative. Paragraph 9. Demohtion of Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus
building. Leases for these facilities end as of June 1, 1994. Should Pauly be included in
that?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
Gerhardt: The Pauly's lease ends, I didnk update that part. Their leases for the Pony and
Pryzmus building really ended in October of '94 and Mr. Pauly's lease runs out in November
of 1995. That should be modified.
Bohn: Yeah, we gave Pony and Pryzmus 6 months. Actually their lease ended in.
Gerhardt: '94. October 1.
Bohn: Didn't it end in July?
Chmiel: We gave them a 6 month condition.
Gerhardt: And they got out before that. I don~t think I collected, I think you're fight. I didn't
collect rent after July but getting them out and the facilitation and relocation, they physically
weren't out until October. But you're right, the rent that we received ended in Suly.
Boyle: Okay, I had no further questions. Don, did you have anything?
Chmiel: No, I have something regarding the landscaping at the Hanus facility but we'll get to
that as we go through here yet.
Bohn: Are we going to demolish the Pryzmus and tho Pauly and Pony building...wait for the
Pauly's building?
Gerhardt: No. I handed out a letter regarding that from BRW and on the second page there's
a time table of the schedule for that demolition. The physical structures will start coming
down March 1 and the footings would come out probably sometime after road restrictions
because of frost.
Chmiel: Yeah, and regarding Pauly's place. That I had brought up to be used as a youth
center for a period of time until once we get ready to clear that out as well and we're going to
review that. Give the kids a place to go.
Boyle: I guess at this point then we would direct staff to present this to City Council with
options for changes.
Bohn: I have one question. This was done by BRW?
Gerhardt: Yep.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 1 O, 19~$
Bohn: I thought we were all done with BRW.
Gerhardt: We've continued to use BRW for demolition because of the history that they have
with the water hook-ups. When you demo a building, you go back and disconnect the water
hook-up. They,re also got the footprints of all the buildings on their computer system.
Bohn: Don't we own that information? I thought we bought it from BRW. We don~ Why
are we going back to BRW7
Gerhardt: They just have the information. I don~t think anybody can do it as cost efficiently
Bohn: In other words we don't have the information?
Gerhardt: We have tho information.
Bohn: Anyone here with the history of BRW, we went through. I have a bad taste in my
mouth for BRW.
Gerhardt: They've done all the demolition projects. You know they've got the whole set of
plans and specs for demolition. There's another engineering company that probably could do
it. They're familiar with how we like to do it They're familiar with the contractors that have
done this work. It really takes a lot of burden off of mo and the managing this and brining
somebody else new on. Ifs not a large dollar amount for them.
Bohn: How much? Not a large dollar amount for them but how much dollar amount is it for
the HRA?
Gerhardt: It would cost you about $5,000.00 for them to put the plans and specs together and
see the project through to those specifications.
Chmiel: Does that cover that environmental aspect too?
Gerhardt: No. That would be a separate contract They are not providing environmental.
Environmental is, I'm getting bids from two companies.
Robbins: Todd, from what you're talking about, could you please just tie in what your
discussion is in terms of the items on the agenda, where this falls in because I don~t see what
you're talking about in terms of the.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: It's number 9. The demolition of Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus. Jim has brought up.
Robbins: Which is part of section 2?
Gerhardt: Section 2. I have it as a part of the goals. Number 9. Page 3 of the goals.
Robbins: Thank you.
Boyle: Jim, did you have any?
Bohn: No. I'm just not happy about BRW being involved in this.
Chmiel: Yeah, you're fight Jim. There's been some real concerns with what BRW has done
within the community.
Bohn: I hate to give them another dime.
Gerhardt: ...that I'm working with them and again, theyN, e got the dat~ They know the
advertisement. They've worked with, we only had two people that..bids for demolition.
That's been Wickenhauser and Al Nelson and they know who to call. Who to communicate
with and that usually gets you a lower bid because they work well together...but if you don~t
want to work with them, we can go elsewhere too. It just may jeopardize the schedule. Road
restrictions go on March 15th and it's k/nd of tight schedule. I know your displeasure with
them and that's sta~s reasoning for going with them is just the history of working with them
on demolition. We've always had successful demolition projects with them and we haven't
had a problem.
Boyle: Charlie, do you have any issue with this?
Robbins: No.
Boyle: With BRW.
Robbins: No.
Boyle: Don, do you?
Chmiel: No. I think if it's strictly with the demolition portion, they've been very consistent
with that with what the city has looked at for projects. But if it goes beyond that I have
many questions. But I don't with this at this time.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
Boyle: Jim, would you like to carry it through?
Bohn: No.
Boyle: Alright. Can we move to item 3.
ESTABLI~qH 1995 MEETING DATE~,
Boyle: Well right out of the shoot I%e got a, I'I1 be out of town on February 23rd. And
possibly the 22nd of Sune.
Bohn: Is it possible to change Sune 22nd to tho 29th? Are these in conflict with the Council
meeting, is that the reason?
Gerhardt: Let me make a copy of, I~,e got a calendar upstairs that shows you when the
Planning Commission and Council meetings are.
Robbins: Todd, can we just go through the order of and say we would accept these dates.
Bohn: Well let's get the Council meetings first and then we'll know where.
Chmiel: Well the Council is every second and fourth Mondays.
Robbins: Because I've got conflicts. Gary's got conflicts. /'tm has and Don has so we're all
going to have conflicts and so to just keep things in order, if we could just accept the dates as
presented subject to change.
Chmiel: The only date I don't know-what we're going to do as far as November is concerned.
What date are we having on that? Let me go get the calendar. As far as I-IRA. Ifs blank.
Bohn: Okay, Council is the first Monday of the month?
Chmiel: Yeah, the second and fourth Mondays of the month.
Boyle: So you'll have a conflict with the 27th, if thafs a Monday of February.
Chmiel: No, I don't. These are Thursdays.
Boyle: No, I mean for Council. This was the date I was talking about for that month's
meeting.
Housing and Redovelopraent Authority - January 19, 1995
Chmiel: Oh, oh, yeah. That would be anything on a Monday would be.
Boyle: Would be a problem, yeah.
Chmiel: Because normally that's work sessions also.
Bohn: For what? Was that date in June that you're talking about?
Boyle: No, that was something else.
Belin: And February. June and February.
Boyle: Yeah, June and February are my two confficts right now.
Chmiel: These are all, all these dates are fine with me. All except November doesn't have
any date.
Boyle: Planning must alternate the weeks between Council right?
Chmiel: Yeah, they're the first and third Wednesday.
Gerhardt: Does anybody else have conflicts? Pve got Gary down for February 23rd and June
22nd.
Robbins: I've got a conflict on May 18th, June 22nd, and 9/21.
Chmiel: We can either move it up a week or down a week. For those Thursdays.
Boyle: Well let's take February firs'c Is there any, I see on February, if we moved it up, the
16th would fall the date after Planning Commission.
Robbins: On the 16th I'm gone.
Boyle: Would there be a hinderance of moving it to March, oh March 1st is right on a
Planning Commission meeting isn't it? No. No, it would bo March 2nd I guess.
Robbins: Chairman, what I would like to entertain is perhaps we accept the dates as
presented and those who can make the meetings will make the meetings.
Hous/ng and Redevelopment AuthorRy - lanuary 1 ~, 19~$
Boyle: Fine, with the exception of February is our next meeting and if we review each
month, a month prior, I think we may be in a position to make a change. So if I could attend
the February meeting, if everybody's in agreement to either go a week up or a week back, I
would appreciate it.
Chmieh Did you say the 16th was bad for you Charlie? Of February.
Robbins: No. That's fine.
Gerhardt: The only thing that does worry me is the award of bid on the demolition.
Chmieh You think moving it up a week would be too quick or too much?
Gerhardt: We're bid opening February 16th. We can still do that. I can bring the bids on
that day. I can still do that. As you get your packet though, the bids will not be in there but
I can present them to you that evening.
Boyle: I have no problem with that.
Chmiel: That's fine.
Gerhardt: That will work then, if it works for everybody's schedule. And it is open. The
room is open. It is going to put a little pressure on Don and Mike because that is a Council
week. And Planning Commission.
Chmiel: That doesn't bother me one way or tho other.
Gerhardt: Yeah, and I don't see ~king.
Boyle: It should not be a long meeting. Okay. Lefs do it then. And then I think what we'll
do, lofs just review each month when we como and see how they're doing because we all get
stressed a little bit. Hi Mike.
Mason: Big crowd.
Chmiel: You should have seen what we turned away.
Robbins: Chairman, what I'd like to do is to entertain the motion that you have stated and
we'll just approach each month as stated.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Boyle: Fine. If we'd like to take it as a motion. Mike, the process we're in right now is
reviewing the 1995 calendar dates. There was a conflict in February and knowing that you
like to attend 3 meetings in one week, we moved it up to the 16th.
Chmiel: I said that was alright.
Mason: Well, if the Mayor says it's alright. February which? The 16th? Yeah, I probably
will not be in town on the 19th of October. But I don't have any trouble with moving the
February one up.
Boyle: So rather than approve the whole year, why don't we just, and I don~t know if a
motion is necessary but we review each.
Chmiel: Maybe what we could do, yeah. Review each month but I think March and April
were fine. July and August was alright. And November, what date in November are we
having it?
Robbins: Mr. Chairman, there's a motion on the floor regarding to entertain approval of the
one month and then we'll review each month currently following.
Boyle: Okay, could I have a second to that motion?
Chmiel: I'd move it.
Robbins moved, C~mlel seconded to approve moving the Homing and Redevelopment
Aulhodty meeting date in February to February 16, 199S and to review e~h sulnequent
momh at e~h meeting. Ali voted in favor and ~ motion
Chmiel: Todd, what about that November month?
Gerhardt: It's the 9th. November 9th. That's an off Council meeting and 2 weeks prior to
Thanksgiving.
Boyle: And normally we don't meet in December do we?
Gerhardt: Normally we don't. I put in a date just in case if there's a closing or something.
We have to hold a public hearing...or anything like that. But we'll try to do a little
Thanksgiving dinner thing on November 9th.
Boyle: Turkey?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Turkey?...pork chops.
Boyle: Okay, we'll move right on to number 4.
REVIE-AV SPEqIFIC,~ONS FOR Tile SALE OF LAND ON wF-q~ T 79TH STREET,
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, HRA members. Staff had been approached by both Charlie James
and the Brookdale group, specifically Craig Oberlander and his parmer, and showing interest
in purchasing the land due east of Americana Bank, which is approximately 3 acres. With
that these two groups seem to be financially sound. Have money and have shown success in
doing projects. And with that they were very eager to get some type of offer, kind of what
we might be looking for as a price on that So staff...and put a list of specifications together
of what expectations that you may see that you want to get out of that property. And with
that staff...go on the very high end of everything that we could think of that you may want to
see against this property. As to uses. As to price and as to the land that sits next to the
Chanhassen Inn. We were discussing maybe purchasing that and how you control how it's
going to come about... We put that as a condition on the resale of this property. Staff has no
control over how these specifications, I mean they cannot come back and sue us saying well
Todd said this in this letter. You make those decisions and I do not bind you to anything that
I may have sent out to these people. They were eager so I went ahead and put something
together for them to review and come back and make a counter offer. I want you to have the
opportunity also...
Boyle: Very good, thank you Todd. We'll start with you Charlie.
Robbins: Todd, I guess comments. This, the way ifs structured, at least what I understand of
it, is a major piece of land. Would this be the land from the bank, the Americana to the
driveway of Cheers? Or just a part of that
Gerhardt: No, it would be all of the land.
Robbins: It would be all of the land.
Boyle: There is a portion there that I mink though is wetland, is it not?
Gerhardt: Yes. Part of the site is designated as a wetland~
Bohn: But that would be filled and traded for property across the street, right?
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Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
Gerhardt: That's our hope on this. I mean everybody's got to work together. Somebody has
to purchase the...piece and with that you can't bind the City Council to these decisions. But if
the City Council would agree to have that wetland relocated over onto that area, then they
could build a wetland or build on the wetland and then replace it over onto the McCarville
piece.
Boyle: Charlie, you're trying to make a point I think.
Robbins: Yeah. Just going on through your letter it talks about approximately 130,000
square feet. I think that is about 3 1/2 acres. I thought that the parcel between the bank and
the liquor store was more than 3 acres. That's just one question.
Gerhardt: I can verify that.
Robbins: It says the Authority has permitted and so on for permitted uses. Non-permitted,
body shops, car, boat. Why are these not uses? It says non-permitted uses. Body shops, car,
boat sales, car wash, fast food, banks and so forth.
Gerhardt: You have
Robbins: Not right now to answer but in terms of just, a part of your letter. As far as the
purchase price, $8.00 per foot versus $6.00 per foot or $10.00 per foot. I can't speak to the
price. I guess I'd just like to know more about what the structure is with the land.
Gerhardt: Would you like me to answer those now?
Robbins: Chairman?
Boyle: Yeah. Go ahead Todd, if you can. Whatever.
Gerhardt: The $8.00 is, I wanted to go on the high end of the thing. These are what I'll call
the maximums. Anybody can come back and counter, and we'll bring that offer back to the
HRA for your consideration. Somebody may come back and counter with $6.00, $5.00,
$3.00, a buck. I will bring those back to yo~ And I made those representations to people.
These are our expectations. High expectations but they are not, we are, we would be willing
to listen to maybody's offer. That deals with the $8.00. I will verify the 130,000 square feet
size of the lot the best that I can for you and get that back to you. As to the non-permitted
uses. That comes off of the Highway 5 corridor ordinance and the Planning Commission and
City Council have adopted a Highway 5 corridor ordinance that allows certain uses along the
Highway 5 corridor. And all of those uses are non-permitted with the exception of a bank.
11
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Bohn: I thought motel too.
Robbins: I guess I would question the item on several of those is that at one time we were
looking at the Lariat Group, which was the Applebee's. Owners of Applebee's. Why is, one
time we're looking at another group besides the bank, which had a fast food in there and was
also that Bernie Hanson had looked at that for being a garden center and lumber yard use and
it's not saying it's a non-permitted. So what changed?
Gerhardt: You could, I think fast foods are included but I~,e heard some people that they
didn't want to sell.
Bohn: Lariat never had a fast food. They had Applebee's but not a fast food restaurant~
Gerhardt: And if you wanted to include fast food as a permitted use, we can do that As to a
bank, Americana, we sold land to them. I'd have to go back and re-verify if we had any
restrictions against not allowing a bank to go on there but in fairness to them, it didn~ make
sense to add another bank right next to their bank. But if you would like to include bank in
there as an option to see that, we can do that.
Bohn: The question I had was the hotel. Where did that come from?
Gerhardt: I'd have to go back and re-verify. The hotel probably could be a permitted use.
Bohn: Because we permitted use along Highway 5 for a motel in that Vision 2000 and
Highway 5 study. Motel was one of them that was permitted.
Gerhardt: Okay. We could, I'll go back and re-verify hotel. Iq.1 go back and...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Boyle: Motel. And it fit within the Highway 5 corridor policies and was not a restricted use
for that matter, then we would probably entertain whether or not that could up in the
permitted or not. So I think to sit here and debate this for long period of time is fruitless.
Bohn: The Highway 5 corridor did not restrict hotels.
Boyle: Right. I'm just using that as an example. And we could shuffle at the time. I mean
if, Buyer A said I want to do this, then we consider whether or not we'd want to move. Then
it...is a permitted use.
12
Housing and Redevelopment Authori0y - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Staff's reason for not including hotels and motels is that this is one of the last
chunks of land that is available and we felt we wanted to see more retail in the area. A hotel
is just...There's still some uses, kind of day to day uses that citizenry would utilize and
putting a hotel in there you're taking away other opportunities.
Boyle: I agree. I also think that maybe a sit down, nice sit down, an Applebee's for
example, that was mentioned before would be a good example of good potential property.
Business and revenue at that location, as an example.
Gerhardt: You wouldn't believe the number of phone calls I receive on Taco Bell. There's
rumors out there that Taco Bell wasn't corning in and Pve taken 5 phone calls stating why
isn't Taco Bell coming.
Boyle: Really? Why aren't they?
Gerhardt: They are. And I always say, you can be the hero of your company and go back
and tell them that Taco Bell is coming and you brought it back.
Boyle: Don, do you have any comments on this?
Chrniel: No. I'm just thinking the entirety as it is, I only have just one concern even under
the permitted uses, which I was thinkiug of excluding, is that auto service center with no
outside storage for cars, tires, parking... That has been a very highly discussionary thing with
Council and I'm just wondering whether that should be there but I don't, I think you have to
give a choice of something and something. But I think staffs position should be maybe
brought out the fact of saying, what do you think we should have within as well. But it's
good to come up with some of those decisions but I think too, hotel or motel would be
accommodated from that particular location rather well. But I'd say, just accept the entirety.
Are we also, in here if I was reading somewhere about, yeah. If closing does not occur
before December 31 '95, the option/purchase agreement will be declared void by both parties.
Do you think that's sort of a long option? Normally options are granted for 6 months.
Gerhardt: Typically to get through the city process it takes 3 months and people will not start
the plans and specs for their construction on their building which takes approximately
anywhere from 6 weeks to 8 weeks to complete to get a building permit. And then to get
financing in there too so you can do the financing on a building permit and plans and specs
in conjunction with each other but I feel like I could come back every month and do a
modification to things for you guys. So 6 months to go through the whole city process and
that I didn't think was too long...in dealing with Taco Bell for almost 2 years now and we're
going to hopefully close here in March. It's up to you. I mean if you want to put more
13
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
options in there, that's up to you. I would think 6 months would be more than adequate for
you guys to say, to give you enough time to get your ducks in a row.
Chmiel: Well that's what I was thinking is giving a 6 month option to purchase and then
they've got a year to build within that particular period of time. I think that way we don't
have to toy with an option and keep waiting until somebody decides to make up their mind. I
think if we push them a little bit more into a comer and say okay, let's do what you want to
do.
Boyle: I have to assume Todd that both of these individuals probably have some pretty good
clients in mind to build there. I mean and because of that, maybe moving it up, I think I'd
agree with Don.
Chrniel: That's all I had.
Boyle: It's your turn Mike.
Mason: I share Den's concern about the auto service center, knowing all the tack every time
that comes up. But again, I mean these are guidelines and like you said earlier Todd, they
know nothiug's going to be approved until it goes through us anyway. I too like the idea of
more retail as opposed to hotel/motel but then also like Gary said, if somebody's going to
come in and say, yeah. I'll give you $8.00 a foot, well. I think it would behoove us to listen
regardless of what it was, within limits. So this sounds fine. I do think there are the
Highway 5 task force ordinance. I mean that ordinance certainly is in place that anyone
would have to conform to anyway. So I'm t~ine with this. And with Den's and Gary, if they
want to change that, that's fine.
Gerhardt: Staff did put that in for a reason. Tires Plus does have a purchase agreement with
Mr. McCarville and they're not excited on building on it. I don~t know if they'll ever build
there or never build there and I didn~ want that to influence you in making your decision but
the Highway 5 corridor plan does allow auto service centers as a part of that.' And we
thought with their purchase agreement they could tie into item number 8 fairly easily in
accomplishing our goal...McCarville piece to us and that'd be purchased for $50,000.00...
Sounded like a good deal and could be worked out. We do not want to see that ldnd of use
there, if it's sold to that individual or you guys want to go ahead and purchase it yourself.
We can still take that approach and it's not a concern...and purchase that~
Chmiel: Yeah, there's two ways you can go. But you're still saying that the mitigation would
be of a wetland that's existing on this parcel replaced by the other parcel that Don
McCarville.
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Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Place it on the McCarville piece.
Boyle: Okay Don, do we want to change that December 31 st date. The closing date does not
occur by December 31st. What would it be? Are you saying Todd that this would put a
hinderance on you to move that? Burden might be a better word.
Gerhardt: Not on me. I mean if you wanted to reduce this down to 3 months, that means
they really have until August, September, October. You know a 3 month option. 4 month
option. That's plenty of time I would think. To get flxrough tho city approval process, and
that's how I stated it that the buyer must secure all government permits, specifically site plan
and building permits and others that are needed. That means that you have to have somebody
come in, roads on the property, get the city site plan approval, complete plans and specs on a
building and pull a building permit. I just don~t think.
Mason: It wont happen.
Boyle: You know that's true. If they close on it July 1st. December, that's 6 months that
we're giving them time in which to get everything done and closed.
Chrniel: Well, 6 month options can be done rather quickly without too much problem but.
Gerhardt: ...$anuary's gone. I mean the soonest that they probably could get on is either later
part of February, March. Mar.ch, April, May.
Boyle: Stays December 31sC We'll leave it where it is.
Chmiel: Yeah, that's alright.
Gerhardt: I've got a feeling they'll come back and probably will modify this...
Boyle: Charlie?
Robbins: Comments. In fact I have number 6. Paragraph b, c, d, I guess e and f. In the
past we had some problems with the James property in terrn.~ of where we had some things
that we had to kind of clean up later on that we were not aware of and some of these are also
entitled in this paragraph about levies and different taxes and things that the James property
went through. I guess I would question the item number (c). Do we know those exact
dollars? Number (d). Seller shall pay at closing. Do we know those exact costs? And (e),
buyer closing. The recor~g fees and rifle, because there could be some items that might
surface later on this land that may not be encumbered at this time.
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Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 199:5
Gerhardt: As to (c). That is the actual cost of the specials down to the penny. I took that
fight off the card. As to the taxes, fight now it's tax exempt so nobody's paying taxes on it.
And as to any future levies or liens that might go against the property, it's in the city's name
and I can't expect anybody to file a lien against us for that property. And there are not any
plans of future projects, development projects where there would be additional specials
against the site. And as to the recording fees, title insurance, the dollars associated with that.
They're all going to fluctuate. Some of them were the...but those are language that we've
taken out of all our purchase agreements. Exactly I took it out of the last one we had and
had the City Attorney review it too and he felt comfortable with those. And those are just
shared costs and expected costs when you do a closing that the buyer is responsible for and
the seller.
Boyle: Was that answered to your satisfaction Charlie?
Robbins: Yes.
Boyle: Okay. Are there any other comments regarding item number 4? Okay, if not we'll
move on to item number 5.
Gerhardt: If I could just make one comment. For non-permitted uses, banks. In or out? Do
you want to leave that as a non-permitted...
Boyle: I think at the time we leave as is. That's my recommendation. I mean if a bank
comes in, we would consider but quite honestly puttihg banks back to back, I don~ know if
that really.
Bohn: Doesn't make any difference to banks so. In Excelsior you see TCF and Norwest
fight next to each other. In Chaska, kitty corner from each other so, the banks don't care I
don't think.
Mason: I say for now we leave it as is and see what happens. That's my opinion.
Bohn: I'm surprised hotel was in even in there. I couldn't understand why hotel was in there.
Gerhardt: ...more retail in the comrmmity. If you put a hotel on there you...
Boyle: I kind of agree with that personally.
16
Housing and Redevelopmon~ Authority - January 19, 1995
Chmiel: But the only argument I think you can get from that is if an individual wants to
come in with a bank, it's pretty hard to say you can't put a bank there because there's one
next door to you.
Boyle: Oh exactly. That's what I mean. We can have that on there but if a developer comes
in with so and so bank, TCF wants to put a bank here. Would you change? We'd probably
consider it very seriously.
Gerhardt: There are banks very interested in being there. There's a couple fight now...dollar
amount.
Mason: Really, who?
Gerhardt: Richfield Tmst...but before you take a decision on that, I'd like to go back and see
if we put any exclusions on the land... I don~t know if you want to be fair, not fair.
Americana is here...
Bohn: I don't think so. I don~t remember a r~ction for another bank.
Gerhardt: I don't know if we did.
,
Bohn: I don't think we did.
Gerhardt: I know we talked about it.
Bohn: I don't think there was a restriction but I stuck the hotel across the street probably
wouldn't want another hotel across the street either. Chanhassen Inn wouldn't want a hotel
there.
Boyle: Item $ Todd. Would you like to brief us.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF CiiANGE ORBEI~ 3 TRRU 12 IrOR ~ ItANUS
PRO,1Ecr.
Gerhardt: This past summer we discussed the change orders that were going to occur on the
I-Ianus building. The largest dollar amount associated with this was, that I brought back to
you was the granular amount. That we were going to change the specs to go from 6 inches
to 9 inches based on meeting road specifications. And that's the largest portion of these
change orders... The other ones, if I can just briefly go through them. Cul-de-sac
modifications. As we got out there and saw the way it laid out in front of the Hanus
17
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
building, it just didn't flow fight when plowing snow and a vehicle might want to drive back
towards the building. That it just didn't look like a road section. That they might hop the
curve and they might have some problems hauling snow so with that we made, we pulled the
nose of the cul-de-sac back and straightened it out a little bit...
Boyle: Todd excuse me. I don't mean to interrupt you but I don~t think it's necessary that
you have to go through each and every one of these unless somebody wants that. Maybe we
approach it as such that if there's a question regarding any one of the changes, let's address it
and ask the questions. Some of these are quite, the result of something else probably.
Gerhardt: Just off hand we extended the trail and the specifications ended fight at the I-Ianus
property so we extended the trail to match up with the existing trail along Great Plains. That
was another cost to the project. Just to finish the connection with those. There's some costs
in there and servicing grounds during construction. The bituminous was...to provide
temporary access.., and also upgraded the concrete apron around the building to get access
into some of the businesses. That is a nutshell on that.
Bohn: I have one question. We eliminated the pork chop that was at the entrance into the
parking area to tho Hanus building. We were going to cut that pork chop off. Just make a
rectangle and now ifs gone completely I notice.
Gerhardt: Yes. And it was...out there and it was just ridiculous. I mean Mr. Pufahl couldn't
get into his bay. I mean it was ridiculous. He could get into it but it was very difficult. It
was confusing on flow and tenants were saying, we're never going to park this way. So we
got to the point where we just eliminated it completely and for ease of snowplowing and
egress, in and out of tho building. Mr. Brown has a largo semi that delivered tires and
batteries almost on a daily basis and ifs very difficult for that truck driver to get in there
without a proper opening. So we bent to the tenants out there and gave them what they
wanted, and they're very happy with how the site is laid out right now. We also...that if
anybody would happen to push their parking out into our, what I'll say is the roadway section,
that we would put some barricades up to eliminate that and...
Boyle: Okay, any other questions? Mike.
Mason: I looked through this and I know we've been through this before but I don't
understand. Well, Change Order No. 3 or Change Order No. 4. 5% indirect overhead and
then 10% overhead fee. I mean, I don't get that quite honestly and I'm also a little concerned
that all of this stuff had to be modified after it was put in. I mean if something doesn't work,
it's got to be fixed. I understand that but in the design in the first place, and obviously you're
not responsible for it. I don't mean to imply that but who's desiring this stuff for us?
18
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Well, if I can shift to the overhead is probably the best way to explain this. What
we looked at was just where the property lines end and this was all going to stay as a cul-de-
sac. It just didn't seem right. We wanted to make this look like an extension of the road. So
after being out there and loolting at it, it just didn~ flow right_ You were going to get people
to continue to park out here. It would have been real tough for Mille to plow this area. So
we just made it look like an extension of West 79th Street.
Mason: Yeah, I guess I'm just concerned that whoever is designing this stuff/'or us doesn't
anticipate some of these kinds of things. I mean this is, I mean just that one alone is, you
know that's a $4,000.00 change. And again, I'm not ragging on the city here but that's a
pretty expensive mistake or oops, it didn't work. We have to change it and I don~t know what
we can do about that. That's just a concern I guess.
Boyle: Just a thought Mike, but it's a good point.
Gerhardt: And I agree if the engineer, I mean it would have been nice if the e gi eer would
have caught the granular too.
Mason: Well it would have been.
Gerhardt: It's difficult to go back and do change orders but the nice thing is, change orders
you catch some of these things too to make them better you know once you get out there.
Mason: Right. I just, I mean.
Gerhardt: They stay within the boundaries. Some people have this tunnel vision that they
don't want to expand out of the project area and they saw where this road, or the project area
ended was the Hanus property line and it would have been nice if they would have realizing
that the cul-de-sac really didn't necessarily serve a purpose...
Mason: And I guess that's something we need to take a look at. I mean if people we have
working for the city don't, aren't far sighted enough to see that kind of stuff, maybe we need
to take a look at that too.
Gerhardt: Well it was Bill Engelhardt~ I mean he knOWS.
Mason: Well Chairman.
Boyle: Yes Charlie.
19
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sanuary 19, 1995
Robbins: I guess I would like to comment on paragraph number 2 of the cover memo. To
quote, the total amount for these change orders is 37 but 28,9 is related to the pedestrian
bridge project. I'm not sure whether we've even agreed to that project on the pedestrian
bridge project. Hence, how can we be charged/'or something we've not even agreed to? Mr.
Chairman?
Boyle: You're not asking me the question I assume. I mean you're addressing that to Todd?
I can't answer your question.
Robbins: Well you're the liRA Chairman. I'm just asking you. It says basically $29,000.00
of $38,000.00 is for the bridge and we~ve not even said we're going to use the bridge.
Boyle: Related to the bridge project which continues to grow which is going to be a major
issue at some point in time because wetve got a lot of money into it.
Gerhardt: I came back this past summer and asked the HRA, there's going to be some
additional grading work that's going to need to be done on the pedestrian bridge site if the
project gets tho go ahead. You have a problem in place here to match grades and we had
some fairly good quotes here for hauling material. At that time we decided to bring materials
from Charlie James' site to the back side of the Hanus to match the grades onto the site out at
Lake Drive on the south side of Highway 5. At that time the HRA gave me the go ahead and
do that work. The official document. You've already authorized that work. And yes, you
have incurred expenditures with the pedestrian bridge. We purchased the land on the south
side of Highway 5. You authorized plans and specs to take bids on the thing. The last step
that you will have to make is to award those bids at your March meeting. Or denial.
Bohn: I thought, isn't MnDot taking the bids?
Gerhardt: Yes. But you still have jurisdiction and authority...
Boyle: Why is MnDot taking the bids Todd?
Gerhardt: It was an ISTEA application. It's their responsibility to do that.
Boyle: Okay. I think I recall that discussion. Okay. 'Charlie, did that satisfy your question?
Or comment or concern.
Robbins: No, just in general. Have we spent any amount of that $28,000.00? Or $37,000.00
or whatever it is for the bid for a bridge which may not happen.
20
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Yes. You spent close to almost $200,000.00 already. I think I updated you at the
last meeting on what we had expended. What the expected price of the project would be and
that is I think around $200,000.00.
Boyle: Additional? You mean how much has already been invested.
Boyle: I think you're right. It's $200,000.00 and something.
Gerhardt: We had to prepare plans and specs which includes substantial, we did some
renderings to come up with designs. We paid for the application for the ISTEA. Those are
some of the list of items. We purchased land as a part of that...
Boyle: If there's no other comments, I'd like to have a motion to approve the Change Order
Numbers 3 through 12 for the Hanus project.
Bohn: I'll make the motion.
Boyle: Do we have a second?
Chmiel: I'll second that with just a little discussion.
Boyle: Okay.
Chmiel: In looking at these trees that have gone in, by the way having Hoisington-Koegler
Group do some of this, I'm losing a little faith in them and I think the costs have esc~ated
because of some of the inconsistencies that they also had as well and I'm not too pleased with
that. But in addition to that,'do you feel that most of these trees that they have purchased to
put in, our unit price are fairly decent? Because I know just about what you can buy some of
these for and.
Gerhardt: Can you help me on what page?
Chmiel: Go to page, partial payment 5 of the base bid on the site improvements. Item
number 5. Page 1123. And I know this has already gone by but I look at some of this, some
of these costs that are incurred. Here to we did a lot of, we dropped tho curb section and we
also bid a concrete walk. It wasn't that costly but nonetheless, all those little things that keep
coming up. I think they should have been caught at some time along the time. Keep coming
back to haunt us and those dollars keep going and going and going. And somehow we just
21
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
have to put a stop to them. Totally for the base bid on all those things if they went through,
I have gone through 44 that came up to about $173,984.00...
Bohn moved, Chmiel seconded to approve Change Order numbers 3 tiirough 12 for 1he ltanus
project. Ali voted in favor md 1he motion carried.
(There was a tape change during Mayor Chmiel's discussion.)
APPRQVAL OF BIIJ~,
Chmiel: ...and Jerry Singer and there was another one. Yeah, Richard Anderson was the
other.
Gerhardt: Those are the relocation for the tenants in the Pryzmus building.
Chmiel: Did he get, which one is Richard, oh! Okay. I know Richard.
Gerhardt: ...Mayer, Jerry Singer.
Chmiel: Now was there another individual there as well?
Gerhardt: Yeah. Richard Anderson.
Chmiel: Yeah, that was the other one on the other page.
Gerhardt: And just the three. There was one other that we did pay $500.00 to in July. We
have not gone back after him to try to recoup that $500.00. He moved in after the HRA had
purchased the building, thus not qualifying him for relocation. So staff felt that that could be
his compensation...
Robbins: On page 1, Swenson and Associates. The bottom of page 1. And then Eastman
Kodak, we spent $5,300.00 to buy something. What did we buy?
Gerhardt: We bought the color unit to the copier upstairs that made these pages look blue.
Robbins: So we stay with black and white it would have cost us nothing then?
Gerhardt: That's true.
Robbins: Oh, okay. Back to Swenson and Associates. What was that?
22
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Swenson and Associates was the appraisal that was completed on the McCarville
piece and that came in at $100,000.00.
Boyle: Todd, just to ask the question. Who approves the purchase of a color unit to a copier
that spends this HRA money? I mean what if we didn't approve this bill at this point in
time?
Gerhardt: You have money in your budget that was not delineated as a detailed item and so
staff go get $5,000.00 from the HRA budget and weql take it out there if we can. Bring it to
the HRA as a part of the agenda. If you do not want to purchase that, then we'll go back and
we'll find another spot for that.
Robbins: But I think the point of the question is pretty well taken. You know we don~t get
the full benefit of a copier here. We don~t make a lot of copies here and for $5,000.00 for 6
copies in color does not give us a whole lot of benefit of this thing. I guess I would have to-
question the purchase of spending 6 grand or, well I'm sorry, $5,272.00 of line item 057542,
why it was approved because we did not approve to buy a copier.
Gerhardt: That's true. It was a line item that you had lef~ in your budget. It was not
delineated in there and if you wish not to assist in the cost of that, we can look elsewhere in
doing that. We can try to find somewhere else in the budget~
Robbins: I guess that would be my comment Chairman. I'd like to see that item taken out
because it's not our budget item.
Boyle: Jim, what's your feeling on that?
Bohn: I must agree. But if the city doesn't have the money to buy it either. Does the city
need it?
Chmiel: I was going to ask, if I could interject. Other than giving us a blue and white, does
this benefit the city in any other way? For having this availability of the blue.
Gerhardt: It's more than just blue. You've got red, green, yellow, and one other color. And
it's something that we'd like to have to highlight special sections of agendas. Park and Rec
fliers. Reports that we put out in the budget. Debt analysis. Doing a variety of other things.
Chmiel: If you have any graphics, you can put them into color you're saying then.
23
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: Yep. If you would like for me to bring this back as an agenda item to justify it
more, I could do that. I could sit down with Karen and give you s~..
Chrniel: Yeah, I'd like to find out a little more myself. What it's going to do for us.
Boyle: Do you have feelings Mike?
Mason: I think it would, I know ifs more work for people but you know when I first saw
this I thought, well big deal. But I do know that having color capabilities is definitely
advantageous. But it might be nice to get a little more information on it.
Boyle: I would assume that the final outcome is going to be the same but I think the point
being made here is that we be prudent with the expenditure of the funds is what they're
saying Todd so, with that we're going to ask staff to give us a little more information,
justification for a color copier. Or color unit for the copier, excuse me.
Chmiel: Maybe if I could just interject one more time. Maybe it'd be advisable to come and
ask the HRA prior to acquiring and purchasing. I think that might be where it comes.
Gerhardt: I agree. But when it comes down to a budget and they see these things and ask
and put it on there...but you're right, I should put it on an agenda item for an open discussion
and ask you.
Boyle: So I will now ask for a motion that we approve the bills as amended.
Mason: As amended?
Boyle: As amended.
Mason: Second that.
Gerhardt: As amended means everything with the exception of the Eastman Kodak?
Boyle: Correct.
Robbins: Discussion?
Boyle: Discussion.
24
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Robbins: Is that also saying then that in the future we won't see these because it says on
here, Accounts Payable 11-14 and now we're seeing it now in January, I mean 2 months later
so really we didn't have any approval authority on these bills because they've already been
Gerhardt: Most of them.
Robbins: It says accounts payable 11-14. Check number, Post Master, Post dated and so on,
but it's already 2 months later so we really did not get authority on paying these bills b~e
they've already been paid.
Robbins: I think what Mr. Chairman's saying, and I guess I'd also request, to see these in
advance before any accounts are paid at all, subject to our approval of paying the bills.
Because there are some items on there we might question. Again, as came up in the question
here. We don't know what Postmaster is for postage. We don~t know for an example what
Holmes and Graven is or T.F. James. It says special assessments and so on but I'd like to see
a review before we pay any bills. My personal opinion. Before we pay any bills, I want to
see the bills before we pay because why show us after the fact.
Boyle: Todd is that logistically possible? And maybe logistically is not the fight word. Is it
possible to review bills before paying, I mean in front of HRA?
Gerhardt: The City Council operates that way but the City Council meets every 2 weeks.
My concern is a 30 day processing, and you did not meet the month of December...It's
something that we can do if you wish. Staff works with a budget and if you, like the copier,
do not want to pay for it, that's... The bills will get paid but if you wish to have Jean pull
those, City Council also reviews these...
Boyle: These same bills?
Chmiel: Yeah the only concern I'd have with sometimes holding some of those bills, if it
goes beyond that timeframe, that we have to pay them by, but I think Charlie brings out a
good point. We should see these things before they're already consummated by staff and
presented to the HRA.
Bohn: If we see that they're going to purchase the copying machine for $5,000.00 and know
about it before it's purchased or the time it's purchased, we can do it in less than 30 days.
25
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: How about those larger capital purchases. I mean the Holmes and Graven, I mean
those are attorney fees. My travel and training.
Robbins: Chairman. This is the Chairman of I-IP~. I guess in c~omment to those questions I
would, I guess to ask, I shouldn't say ask for a motion but to give a motion in terms of items
that are ongoing for travel and training, etc, postmaster, ongoing normal expenses. Those
could be approved by the Chairman without review by committee and special exceptions to be
reviewed by the Board.
Mason: Mr. Chairman?
Boyle: I don't quite understand.
Chmiel: Yeah I don't, go ahead.
Mason: Well yeah. I was just, I mean.
Boyle: Where do you draw the line?
Mason: Yeah. I've had this discussion at a different meeting here. Not with these people.
Yeah, where do you draw the line? What is the line? $500.00? $600.00? $700.00?
Robbins: I'm not saying dollars. I'm saying...is okay and projects I draw the line.
Mason: Well I guess I have enough faith in staff here. I mean I do personally think bounds
were overstepped on spending the $5,500.00. I ~ink that should have come to us before we
approved it but I think that quite honestly, to have to go through every bill or who's going to
decide which bill is and which bill isn~ seems like a lot of busy work to me.
Boyle: I can see us spending twice as much time as we have tonight just discussing the bills.
Each meeting and I'm not quite sure that's in our best interest.
Chmiel: I don't want to put this into record but the County Board goes through line item by
line item on bills and it's just a damn waste of time. I mean normally.
Boyle: I could see where that could be. The issue was raised tonight because of a color
copier unit to add to the copier and I think staff has got the message. And there are certain
other items that may come up at times that should be questioned and I would hope that
people would say gee, is this one of those items that would be questioned by the I-IRA.
26
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Therefore, let's get it in front of them before we go further. I know that's making it very
general but that's kind of the message I'm getting overall Tod&
~Iason: I s4~ree with that Mr. Chairman.
Bohn: Could. I ask a question? How much money did we spend with Hoisington Group in
19947
Gerhardt: Well the Vision process I would say was probably around $50,000.00. If you take
Mike's time and Fred's time, the young lady that worked with them and secretarial time.
Fred...I mean he had at least 2 meetings a month for a whole year and at least I meeting a
month... The ad hoc group, their meetings and their time working back in the office. He
spent substantial time...
Bohn: About how much money did we spend on Hoisington Group?...total?
Boyle: Charlie.
Robbins: Comment. Would it be possible to obtain a listing by category for the expenses for
the year, i.e. it says Postmaster or postage. Postmaster. I would think that our software then
could give us a printout for the year showing how much we did go to postage or to, for
example the various categories that you've got listed of how much we spent. In other words
taken the other way around. Just for the year, how much we spent in the various categories.
Gerhardt: You asked for that at your last meeting and as soon as we close our year end
books, we'll present that. What we spent in '94.
Robbins: Thank you.
Boyle: What color would you like that in Charlie?
Robbins: As long as I bought the copier, I want it in many colors.
Boyle: Okay. Oh excuse me, there's a motion on the floor that has not been seconded to
approve tho bills as amended with the copier machine. I believe you made the motion Mike.
Chmiel: I'll second it.
Boyle: And Don seconded it. And we~ve had discussion and comment.
27
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Robbins: Discussion. One is to resolve the questions raised about the bills.
Boyle: Yes. Maybe we'd better be specific then to what questions. One was the copying
machine. Or unit to run color.
Robbins: The copying machine. And there were just I thini~ some other, myself obviously
had most of the questions in terms of a lot of these dollars are spent and what does it really
go for. It says where it went but, is it things that we've spent totally or is it allocation to
other departments within the city or what is it really for?
Boyle: Charlie are you asking, these are bills that were paid in November. Are you asking
that Todd or staff or somebody advise you of this at the next meeting? Or at this time. I
mean these bills have come and gone.
Robbins: What I'll do is withdraw the comment.
Boyle: Thank you Charlie. We have a motion on the floor to approve the bills as amended
and a second.
Mason moved, Chmiel seconded to approve the Accounts Payable for the HRA as amended
regarding clarification of Check fl0~7~42 to Famman Ko~ in the amount of $~272~0. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
Boyle: May I have a motion to adjourn tonighfs meeting.
Robbins: So moved.
Bohn: We have HRA resolutions.
Boyle: Oh, I'm sorry, resolutions. Any I-IRA resolutions? Why do we have that on there?
What is that for?
Gerhardt: It's usually HRA comments. I don't know...
Boyle: Any comments or resolutions?
Bohn: I have a comment. Are we going to hear about the pedestrian bridge at the next
meeting?
28
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - January 19, 1995
Gerhardt: The award of bid is in March so it will be a March meeting when we put that item
back on. What I'm expecting at the next meeting though is a report from Strgar regarding
your request to review some of the intersections at Market and Great Plains. And Charlie is
just finishing that up fight now in my office...so that will be one of your agenda items.
Bohn moved, Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carrie~L The meeting was adjoumexL
Submitted by Don Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
29