EDA 1995 06 22CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND
REI)EVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
RF~ULAR MEETING
JUNE 22, 1995
Chairman Boyle called the meeting to order at 7:.00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Don Chmiel, Gary Boyle, and Jim Belin
MEMBERS ABSENT; Charlie Robbins and Mike Mason
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Gerhardt, AssL Executive Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES; Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Minutes of the
Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated May 18, 1995 as presented. All voted
in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
CITY CENTER PARK DFC. IGN~, FRI~ HOI~INt~TON, HOI~INOTON-KOEGLlgp
GROUP.
Gerhardt: Mx. Chairman, HRA members. As a part of kind of your Vision process, or before
we started the Vision 2002, the HRA went through a variety of renderings out in front of City
Hall in looking at trying to create a green space, park like se~ting and Barton-Aschman went
through a variety of different concepts that were presented to the HRA at that time. And
since that time, we went through the Vision 2002 process and from that we got a lot of
feedback from people liking the concept of having the green lawn or the park like s~tting out
in front of City Hall. Through the surveys and through the neighbor, through the public
hearing meetings, we received positive feedback regarding that element. With that we've
been working the last 6 months with the City Hall expansion and we are at the point now that
it's time to start looking at how the front of City Hall, the lawn element feature, is going to
weigh itself out. And we have come to terms with the bank people on the purchase of that. I
would expect at our next meeting you'll see a purchase agreement for your approval for the
land to the south of City Hall owned by the Chanhassen Bank and Mithune Enterprises. With
that, Don and city staff have asked Fred Hoisington to take those concepts as presented by
Barton-Aschman and incorporate those with the City Hall layout as it is today and present
some alternatives for the HRA to review and to consider in implementing once the City Hall
expansion occurs. At this time I'd like to introduce Fred Hoisington who has about 4
different concepts he'd like to show you and explain to you.
Fred Hoisington: We actually looked at a number of alternatives other than Barton-Aschman
alternatives... We had HGA has taken a shot at this site. Barton-Aschman and Kevin Nordby
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
has also looked at this site. He's a resident and he gave us some suggestions. This was while
we were going through the Vision 2002 process and so we were interested in as much as we
could, kind of meshing all of those things and seeing if we could come up with something.
We're kind of satisfied that the objectives that we~ve heard about for a long time. But an
interesting question was raised the other night at City Council, and maybe we ought to get
that out right now. Jeff Farmakes was there and one of the questions he was asking was why
we were not extending City Hall in this direction up onto the school property in this phase.
We looked at that actually during tho course of the Vision 2002 process, because that's one of
the things that Kevin suggested, and it's a good suggestion. The only problem was, we had to
broach with the School District, using their land to bo able to do that now, and that made it
very difficult to do. So I think the conclusion was that for the most part, whatever was built
in this next phase, kind of had to be coalesced around what's there today and thafs where the
Council and the I-IRA of course have been working for some period of time, is looking at the
options they feel being more closely tied to the existing City Hall. So that's why it's where
it's at and we picked it up with sort of a footprint and already established alter the long
process of and arriving at this point. I'm going to show you 4 alternatives tonight but I think
there's some things that kind of came out of the Vision 2002- process that are important, that
you ought to have kind of an overriding bearing on the ultimate decision here. One of .them
is that there's this whole concept of a City Hall and park, especially HRA knows how much
discussion ensued over this front area here. The idea being that perhaps this would be a
gathering space and one that would be considered to be an amphitheater and so forth. Would
have been very difficult to put an amphitheater there. There isn't enough space to do it the
way it would need to be done. That's still an important part of all of the plans we're going to
be showing you tonight but we've also looked at this whole idea of City Center Park
extending to the north. We can't do that now. There's a park there. It's an active, sort of
park but at some point in time, if the school use changes, and that could happen. It's an old
school. We could expect to see something that was more in keeping with what we're trying
to accomplish here and therefore would have this building setting in a' park like setting.
Extend it considerably north of this immediate side. Another thing that was again spelled out
as a parameter or that would be common with all the concepts was we need the presence on
West 78th Street. The door. The front door of City Hall off of West. 78th Street.- Of course
that's been one of the difficulties with City Hall over the years is, those of us who know
where it is, that's not a problem but poople who don't know where it is, it's-not a very visible
or accessible building and it will be much more so when people can see it once it's integrated
with downtown. And thirdly, the whole idea of protecting the corners. That has been kind of
important and as you know, there are some plans that there's an orchard shown there. There
have been open, rather passive areas shown there. But again all of them, this was kind of to
be the square, if you will, and remember that Bill Morrish was actually hoping and
advocating early on that Byerly's or whoever used that other site, would actually build to the
edge of this square so we'd have City Hall on one-edge. We have, or Byerly's on one edge,
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
City Hall on the other and then of course the development to the south on the other edge. All
kind of wrapped around the square, understanding that tho bank would never bo. It could
never be, that 3 comers out of 4 wouldn't be bad. That won't be the case because Byerly's,
we struggled with that for a while to see if it could be done. It couldn't. It had to be sot
back for loading purposes and so forth, and actually they've done a wonderful job integrating
it with downtown so there's nothing to be sorry about at all there. We just wer~n~ able to
accomplish everything we would have liked to see happen. Now, some things about the site
itself. Those of you who are rather intimately familiar with it know that there is a very steep
bank that comes right down through here. Ail that means to us is that we cannot run a road
down that bank without doing substantial work on the site and so we're, none of the
alternatives are we showing any roads corning right, directly down the bank. Another thing
that is characteristic of all the alternatives and is site constraining, there's a hill also on
Kerber. You can't just simply nm straight up that hill and get into the site without cutting a
substantial swath through there and losing some land essentially in the process. Now, we
think that the primary access to this site will be via Marke~ Boulevard. People who are going
to be coming up here will never have been here before. Because of the access all the way to
TH 5, no other place do you have that idnd of access, and that's why this roadway is so
important in the future, and why it must remain a roadway. Not a parking lot aisle. It also
will connect of course in this direction and that's another reason why it's important because it
will be serving people that live in these directions. People who live to the north and anyone
that's coming from outside the community, most of whom will be coming from the east will
get here. The seconchuy access, obviously Kerber. In each of the alternatives we're showing
you and of course there will be a lot of people from' Chanhassen who will be living to the
west and to the northwest who will come via this access. The parking' required in this case is
240. Ifs 160 for City Hall. We actually &d some counting during the middle of May and
we concluded based on the demand that existed at that point and then projecting into the
future, based on square footage and the nomber of employees, that we would have somewhere
in the neighborhood of 160 for City Hall and you'll remember that you have a commitment to
the bank for another 80. So you have a total of 240 parking spaces, which is essentially
required at maximum development.
Bohn: How many do we have now?
Fred Hoisington: Right now we~ve got about 30, 60. Todd, do you remember what the exact
number is? 30, 60, 70.
Gerhardt: 70 plus.
Fred Hoisington: And you will, on peak days, you have people parking on the street, which
many of you who are here frequently know and it's generally when you have a-seniors event.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sune 22, 1995
Folks will be parked there and then when you have a library, just a quad event, youql also
have some people on the street so on one of the days we counted, we had the entire street
essentially full of folk's cars.
Bohn: I was just wondering if that's going to be enough. 200.
Fred Hoisington: Well we think it will be. We actually calculated parking within three
different fashions. I don~ know if you ever got that calculation or not but one was on the
base of employees, and you will, there's a number of employees that are working in the
building now and/or that will be as of this summer, with interns and so forth. I think we
calculated 52 are here now. Now with tho building, when it's first occupied will bo for all
intensive purposes, full. There will be no spaces that are unus~. Ifs just that there will be
able to be some doubling up later. We're estimating a total of 70 employees in the future.
So we're assuming with the employee demand won't be quite as high as it is today, but you'll
increase seniors and you'll increase library, which add so we're more than doubling the total
required parking for City Hall. So I think we're okay. I want to tell you a little bit about
some of the alternatives. All of them link north and south. The idea, and you can see
walkways and plazas and so forth around the building, ail of.them are intended to link this
part of the site with this part of the site. Both through the building and around the building.
Market Boulevard in all cases realigns. As you know it comes up here and then out to the
east and then goes into City Hall to the parking lot that exists. Two important, it would be
important for that to occur rather than to continue to have... All of the alternatives show
generous number and amount of walkways and ponds around the building. You don't have to
build all that in the first phase, but what we're saying is, this is a people place. 'This is a
place for people to congregate and while cars are important, people are more important so the
spaces closest to the building are those where people are effectively congregating over time.
As you know, some of this already exists. We would expect over a period of time to create
more and more of that kinds of space in the future. Then in all cases there's one additional
access to Kerber up here. We tried to look at the possibility of having one through this area,
It simply doesn't work. The grade's much more tolerable in this location. Across from the
entrance to the Byerly's. The north entrance to Byedy's, and ifs this entrance will ,play an
unusual role. What it will do is it will play a role of people that are rather quick in and quick
out. People that are looking for permits and that sort of thing. So it will be a different
pattern of use. Usage in this comer than we expect it will in these corners where when this is
fully developed, you'll have either a lot of parking here or you'll have no parking here.. It will
be that kind of situation. Here you'll always have parking, and especially when the bank gets
here, you'll have, if it ever expands and I don~t ever expect that it's going to expand to require
the additional 80 spaces. This will always bo used. This will always be used and this will be
employee parking, not unlike what we see today. Okay. Alternative 1, or scheme I as we
term it. We have an access road that replaces Coulter, and I am very reluctant to say that it
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
replaces Coulter because the thing about Coulter is that we can accommodate traffic on it and
not cause any serious disruption to this area because it was designed as a road and so forth,
and other uses were on the other side. This road could easily, if it were designed exactly as
we're showing here, become a road that replaces that and we're concerned about not only that
separation occurs here but that we're going to have some rather serious conflicts perhaps. So
we have to be very careful with design and it doesn't all have to be built. For example, this
part of this road would not have to be built in Phase 1. Perhaps never would have to be built
and we would instead tend to route through here, leaving this parking in place as it is today
so at least emergency vehicles could get through there, and what I'm talking about are
primarily volunteer firemen. The ones that live up to the northwest. And so that when
people can't find a parking place in one of the places up in this north area, at least they can
get to Market and Kerber without having to go out on West 78th Street to find a parking
place. One of the things we prefer they not do is, if they ean~t find one here, they have to go
around and come back in on the other side so it would help to have something that could
move at least some traffic east and west across this site. On that road it's also possible,
although we don't really need it but because the nature, the type business that will be done on
this north side of the building, it's also possible to have some...parking on the roadway it serf,
either parallel or diagonal so you could have...spaces in there. We're a little bit concerned
about putting in immediately in front of the walkway, because we still in the longer term
future, a rather strong connection up to the park area to the north. Now we think this
alternative has a very good focus, very good view from West 78th Street. Just the way
everything is oriented. It has a very good pedestrian connection. The pedestrian space
focuses on the door so when you come across here, or leave here to go...Byerly's, really what
you see is a pedestrian environment first. You don't see a vehicular environment. But at the
same time, because of that, the walkway does cross tho driveway at two points so there is
some additional points of conflict in this particular alternative. Nothing serious but there
could potentially be some conflict. Scheme 2 is a little bit different in that it has, it does not
have this connection across the top, which means that people that cannot find a parking place
here will have to exit in this fasb/on. Come down here. Not find an~g along hero but
have to come around and find a parking place on the other side. This' particular plan, there's
a little bit more emphasis to the automobile. A little bit more expansive parking. More
circuitous walkways around the edges of parking lot...conflicts. At least relatively fewer
direct conflicts between cars and the areas for'pedestrians. This one has a strong possibility
of creating a pattern through the building, since the door is on the north. It could extend
through and around the building and into the park to tho north encouraging or inviting people
to use that. In a sense connecting the park north and south. We think this one also has a
very good focus or good orientation to West 78th Street because of the nature of the
walkways. We think the walkways go where they need to go in this case, with the exception
of...more circuitous than they are in scheme 1. -In scheme 3 we're looking at one that is
clearly oriented to the car. It has much less in the-way of pedestrian accommodation. 'It does
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
make this connection to the north. It does tend to put additional parking in this location north
of the building and focuses the drive itself on the entries so when people are entering here,
they will look directly at the entry and vice versa. One of the good things about this
alternative, though it does consume moro space for parking, moro surfaco area covered by
parking, when these spaces would need to be built down into this area, you can actually do
that with no disruption, if you were to build this north at first and build the south half, you'd
disrupt what you°d already built so it would bo a phasing benefit perhaps in that case. Where
the other alternatives would have to be built east or west, this one could bo built with these
two, north and south...sfill function. Begin to function as we would have them use tho site
and that would continue well into the future. The orientation in this case is to 78th Street but
not nearly so direct as it would be with the other two alternatives which have diagonal
pedestrian lanes. I might add that this one would be a little bit more expensive as well
because of the road itself and because of the large parking surface. And this is alternative 4.
Alternative 4 has some of the same advantages that alternatives 1 and 2 do. Ifs also much
more compact in the way it deals with parking. Tho islands are non-existent. We end up
with pedestrians ways around the outside. We end up with a few conflicts relatively, or
roughly with fewer conflicts because you're not actually crossing the drive aisles with the
walkways as such. In this particular case we're still exploring the possibility that the entry to
the one part of City Hall would be on the west side, versus on the north side, which the other
three show. A west entrance is better in some respects. From a weather perspective, but as
you know, northwest winds come from this direction in any event so you're vulnerable in
either one of those walls here. I would call this or count this one a more efficient pattern of
use. It is not...circulate back into 78th Street to get from one side of the building to the other.
And so I think each of these have advantages and disadvantages and I'm not going to put the
overlay up here but let me just say that in each case, in order to accommodate all of tho
parking that the bank would require, would require that there be an additional 40 spaces built
here and that there be about 25-30 or thereabouts that the bank would have to use here. So
not only would they be using all this space...but one of the things that wo thinl~ is pretty
important for this site, and that's the corner. One of the things that Don Ashworth was going
to do is to go back to the bank and talk to them again because it's difficult for us to imagine
in this day and age, a bank tripling in size and that's what it would take to require the
additional 80 spaces. So if it were to double in size, we think we could handle it a lot better
than if it were to triple... So with that, I simply open to questions. I would like to introduce
you to Todd Hallum who is a member of our staff. Todd's been involved in this process and
has actually developed all the graphics that you see here and the plan that you see here and
once we know which-direction you're going to take us, which one of these alternatives seem
to best fit your needs, then Todd will be the one that will be developing that alternative.
Bohn: Could you put the first one up.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Fred Hoisington: Yes.
Todd Hallum: One comment that I would make is that the benefit of all the alternatives is
bits of pieces work together. If the parking circulation on Alternative 1 is something that you
think works well, it doesn't necessarily mean that the road on the top would have to go in
either. That could be a phased part of the project or not happen at all. Thafs something to
keep in mind when looking at these too.
Boyle: Hear about that additional parking on this one that you made comment to in scheme 4
for the bank. I mean if we had to go further for another 40 or 50 parking spaces, it would
really take out the geometric design of it, would it not?
Fred Hoisington: No question about that.
Boyle: I mean personally I like this plan the best.
Bohn: I like this one the best too.
Boyle: But it concerns me if the bank wants that extra parking.
Chmiel: I don't really see the bank tripling only because of the fact of two more banks
coming into town. We have four banks. I think it's high expectation on their point but, or
their thinking but I just can't see the bank tripling in size.
Fred Hoisington: ...and I think this bank is owned by, I guess they own another, behind the
building...
Chmiel: Yes, several.
Fred Hoisington: They own $ of them altogether. So they have a good track record...in this
case but I would guess branching is probably more likely than trying to do it all in one single
location.
Chmiel: Right.
Bohn: Where does that property line run? Where's the school property line come?
Fred Hoisington: It's pretty close to right here..'It's 140 feet north of the existing north line
of City Hall.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Bohn: The hockey rink is in, on school property?
Fred Hoisington: The hockey rink is on, I think it actually goes across the property line,
doesn't it Todd? The hockey rink or is that entirely on city property?
Gerhardt: It's entirely on city property.
Bohn: I thought, didn't the property line come with the, straight back from the fire station all
the way back.
Gerhardt: It runs right behind the warming house.
Chmiel: Yeah, just about where the warming house is.
Fred Hoisington: The warming house would be sitting right about here. The hockey rini~
would be here. That could be free skating.
Boyle: Does this assume that, and this might not even be a point Does this assume that the
library would still be at the City Hall?
Fred Hoisington: Oh yes. Oh yes. The library would slightly more than double in size. I
think it goes from 2,300 to 5,900 square feet. The senior center will more than double, as I
recall, as well.
Gerhardt: They'll get a portion of that expansion over there. We're not designating it all as
senior but it's an activity room that the seniors will do a lot of programming out of. But we
want to keep the option open for library and larger meetings can use that also.
Bohn: Why couldn't that road that comes up from, well where Chan View and Market
Boulevard meet, it come up there. Curve up further north so that it'd be.
Todd Hallum: Are you talking about here?
Bohn: Yes. Right there. That road that comes in there. That driveway. Go up further,
higher north. Instead of curving there, go up north further and curve.
Todd Hallum: You mean more like this?
Bohn: Yeah. So that you'd have more parking, put some parking in front of that building on
the north side.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Fred Hoisington: Let's just say that it could in that case. In this particular case we have 170
new spaces for City Hall, which is 12 more than we feel you're going to need...snyway Jim so
for future expansion of the building, which we're at some point there probably will be another
expansion phase for the building, we had anticipated that there would be parking on the north
side of this road, and possibly even extend the road up, for the parking on the south side.
Chmiel: Basically I think Jim, some of the reason why they put that same type position, of
that road is purely for vehicles to slow down. And that does give them that tendencies to do
that, rather than going up straight and then straight over. Once they get up through that first
piece, then they're really zooming out on the other part.
Fred Hoisington: And at this point, this is more, this is still conceptual. I don~t want you to
think that we know precisely where that is fight now. We also know that we have a little bit
of a grade problem fight here and we also know that we have a little bit of a grade problem.
If we don't build this segment initially, and then we tend to go through a parking lot instead.
If you've been out there and looked at it, you know...grade comes down into the parking lot.
We'll have to be careful on how we do that. It's doable. It's not that bad. So nonetheless,
not easy.
Chmiel: One of the discussions the Council had was to cut that off from Market Boulevard
up to that parking lot. Close that off completely and come in from one side.
Boyle: So the only way to get to it would be from Kerber then? Not from Market
Boulevard, is that correct?
Chmiel: That's correct. To that particular point. Other than the fact again, coming around
Kerber, all the way back around to go to the other parking lot.
Fred Hoisington: Yeah, you'd still be able to come through the parking lot itself.
Boyle: Oh, okay.
Chmiel: That's fight. That would stay.
Bohn: If you were coming for a meeting to City Hall, where would you park? Now coming
during the day. Say you're going to meet with Don or Todd. Where would you park?
Fred Hoisington: You mean if I did it during the day?
Bohn: Yes.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - ~lune 22, 1995
Fred Hoisington: Well, I guess it would depend on where they are in the building when this
is all over, and I'm not sure where they are.
Bohn: Say you're going to meet in the conference room.
Fred Hoisington: Currently of course aisles are here and yet I have the inclination to park out
here. And that's because having to carry things and so forth often, I don't usually opt to
climb the stairs. I will look, and when I can't find a space here, I'll come back down and
park on this side so, I think my inclination is to be down here. If it were a Council meeting,
that's where I always park.
Bohn: Now there's going to be meeting rooms down on the main...
Fred Hoisington: ...park and use this parking lot and .there will definitely be some parking
along the street. S00 feet can accommodate about 20, quite a number of cars.
Chmiel: I think figure what, 20 feet per vehicle.
Fred Hoisington: ...I think we counted 25 down here, total. I think some of those would be
on the other side of the street. About 20 cars...
Boyle: Very good. So what direction are you looking for tonight Todd7
Fred Hoisington: We'd kind of like to know which one of these fit, most to fit or you think
you want to go with the site.
Boyle: What did Council come up with? Or have they talked? Did they voice an opinion?
Chmiel: They looked at, I think they liked scheme 1, isn't that right Mark? Except for that
road accessibility.
Mark Senn: I wasn't there in the first place but that's not what I heard.
Fred Hoisington: I heard three people on the Council say that they liked 1 better than.
Chmiel: Yes. That was my understanding.
Boyle: I personally like 1.
Bohn: I personally like 1 also.
10
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Boyle: The only thing that does bother me is that lower, right hand corner and it all depends
on what the bank does. I mean that would really mess up the whole schematic of it, I'm
afraid.
Fred Hoisington: Well there is another option. It may not be the very best for the bank but
when it gets right down to a rock and a hard place, it might work too. Is to encourage the
bank to use a portion of this instead, or at least temporarily maybe work out some type of
temporary arrangement for some parking there for their employees. I would certainly favor
that more than I would favor extending down into this comer. No question about that.
Boyle: Yeah.
Fred Hoisington: Well if that's where you think you want to go. If you think 1 is kind of
where you think we should go, that's kind of where we'll jump off.
Boyle: It's sure a good start.
Fred Hoisington: Okay. Okay.
Bohn: I like that open space going across main street where you don~t block nothing in front
of City Hall. And if you want to use it for a function, there's nothing to stop you. It's all
open for, if you want to have a gathering there or the Mayor wants to make a speech.
Chmiel: No speeches. I might bring in a band though.
Fred Hoisington: Okay.
Boyle: Thank you Fred.
Fred Hoisington: Yes, thank you.
Boyle: Nice job. Very thorough.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF LANDSCAPING PLAN FOR OUTLOT A~ PERKIN~, TACO
BELL AND BOSTON MARKET SITE:,
11
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, HRA members. As you may remember, as a part of the sale of
land to Taco Bell, Boston Chicken and Perkins, the HRA retained a good portion of land
around all three of these buildings and with that staff has come up with a plan in laying out a
landscape plan for this area. And I'd just like to ~how, we have an overhead here. The area
that is still under your ownership is all the land highlighted around the dark black line. This
being the entrance into Target. This area along here being County Road 17. And this being
West 78th Street.
Bohn: Where's the sidewalk coming off West 78th Street into Boston Market? The upper
left hand corner.
Gerhardt: It doesn't show on this plan Jim but there is a sidewalk that will be in~qaHed in this
location. And down to here. They can get on the sidewalk and go this way.
Bohn: They forgot to put the curb cut in.
Gerhardt: Right. And then over here is the sidewalk that we had to put in place with the, off
of CR 17. And then this being the sidewalk that would have to be in~qalled in this area~
Boyle: You know I'm not a landscaper Todd but one of the, it seems like the majority of
times that somebody gets involved in landscaping on a new building, a new home or if you
call somebody out even for your own property, they always suggest it seems like about 10
times more than what you really need and it'd be a lot of clutter. I don~t know. Is this, is
there any overkill on this, do you think? It just seems like a lot of trees and a lot of bushes.
I understand it's a pretty big space but.
Gerhardt: If, Den's kind of smiling and I'm sure he's smiling because of Ben Gowen. Ben
came in here and said, when we showed these landscape plans for City Hall to him about a
year ago, he says you've got too many trees on that plan. There's just too many trees. So we
counted the trees up and we told Ben that, how many trees do you think currently sit on City
Hall site? He said about 50. 25. Something like thac We have 177, 176 trees at City Hall
right now. On City Hall property and that encompasses about a little over 3 acres I think.
And this area right here is I think a little, about 2 acres. So these plans show maturity of
trees. The circles once they're mature. Once you get out there and see the 2 inch caliper,
you're going to say boy, it looked bigger on paper but it's, I don~t think it's too much and it's
once they mature, it will look beautiful. But you're right, it does look like a lot fight now.
Boyle: It definitely will make the area look nice. Not so commercial. Dressing it up, no
doubt about that.
12
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Gerhardt: Well if you remember back when we had Mike Schroeder come out, this last fall
he made a presentation on three areas and I think his estimates were 5 times what we're
proposing.
Boyle: Yeah, that's true isn't it. I forgot about that.
Chmiel: Yeah, it was quite heavy.
Gerhardt: And what we heard from the HRA at that 6me was to, why don~t you just get a
landscape plan together. Take it to the local nurseries and see what they would propose to
come in and put together. So that's what we did We went to Lotus Garden Center. We
went down to Halla and we went down to Wilson Nurseries and asked them to bid on this list
of materials. And the results of that were a bid from lay Kronick for $25,685.00 and a bid
from Halla Nursery at $21,937.50 and a bid from Wilson Nurseries for $13,891.00. I'm
convinced that you're .not going to get a lower bid than Wilson Nurseries to in.~mll that much
material. I mean he's left a lot of money on the table between the three of them.
Chmiel: And they're basically all identical except for the ones that Halla substituted. Some
of the trees maybe they didn't have on site.
Boyle: Who selected the trees and the bushes Todd?
Gerhardt: Jill Sinclair, our forester and, I don't want to say she cheated in the thing but we~ve
been working with MnDot and Mike Schroeder so she had tho assistance of those two
individuals too. We're working on, we received a $100,000.00 grant from Mnl3ot to plant
trees along Highway 5 so with the feedback, you notice those trees in this area right here.
Boyle: On the bottom?
Gerhardt: Right here. That is a part of the grant from Mnl3ot that will be occurring in that
Boyle: But, will that take all that $100,000.007
Gerhardt: No. That's this area. The area all the way over to Dell Road.
Boyle: Oh, okay. Well I personally don't, I have no more discussion or commentS. Do any
of you on the landscaping? Don?
13
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Chmiel: I think total numbers of trees, basically as I went through I thinl~ camo up with 77
and the others that are from where the 20's arc, the compact American cranberry bush and on
down, those are much lower.
Boyle: Well even some of these others. I see they've got the Princess Kay plum, which is
not a tall tree and the Japanese lilac tree or whatever. Some of these are not huge trees.
They're more ornamental I think.
Chmiel: Of course those Amur maples get up 15-18 feet as well. But they don~t get much
more either.
Gerhardt: These are, typically when you thinl~ of the bigger trees, they consider those
boulevard trees and I've got to thini~ that the trees out along Highway 5 are going to be more
of your boulevard trees. This area in the springtime is just going to look beaufifid with these
crabs blossoming and we didn't want to put in varieties that were going to screen the
buildings. We wanted to have it as a natural amenity. And you don~t want towering trees
along buildings and things like that. You want it to look a little more decorative, is I'guess
the point I'm trying to make.
Boyle: Have we had any discussions with the Arboretum in regards to some of these too?
Gerhardt: I know Jill has, I don't think she's talked to the Arboretum about the plan that she's
put together here but all the materials that she has selected are hardy for this ares~ That
would not get wind burned or salt damage from, for salt resistance. Similar varieties of what
we already have in the downtown. By the clock tower there's flowering crabs around there.
At the bank and that location there's a few flowering crabs.
Bohn: That pond that we have out there with the fountain, that sure looks shabby. The trees,
some of them are dead.
Chmiel: Oh, you're talking on Market?
Bohn: Yeah.
Boyle: Along Market Boulevard?
Bohn: Along the railroad tracks you can see from the highway. They were going to put
more trees and shrubs in there too, weren't they? To block off that view. The railroad track
is not hidden at all.
14
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Gerhardt: Boy the grade change there is so dramatic, it'd take a look time for a tree to
mature up to really screen that.
Bohn: Well they were going to put more evergreens I thought. Spruce trees.
Gerhardt: I don't know if we ever had a landscape plan. I think Charlie went back there and
snuck some trees in there but I don't know ff we ever had a plan that called for trees to be
planted.
Bohn: We want something to hide that building.
Gerhardt: Well on their side they've got some big evergreens on the grocery store side.
Chmiel: Yeah, they do. They do. But I think they want some visibility too from the
highway.
Gerhardt: Yeah. I don't think we'll ever get anybody to plant trees to hide that building. It'd
have to be some big trees.
Chmiel: Yeah, you're right.
Boyle: That would be another topic. Well I would like to have a motion then that we direct
staff to implement the project and award the bid to Wilson's Nursery Inc. for $13,891.00.
Chmiel: Is that a motion?
Boyle: I would like to have a motion? Can I make the motion?
Chmiel: Sure.
Boyle: Okay. I just made the motion then.
Bohn: I'll second it.
Boyle moved, Bohn seconded that the Homing and Redevelopment Authority direct staff to
implement the Outlet A planting proposal and to award the bid to Wilson~s Nursery Inc. in
the mount of $13,891.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
~ONSIDER APPROVAL OF SEqTLEMENT AGREEMENT~ APPLE VALLEY REII-E-
MIX,
15
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Gerhardt: This agreement we've been working with since, I think it's before '92 but that's
what Gary starts out in his letter. But I think Gary did an excellent job in giving kind of the
history on this Apple Valley Red-E-Mix but just to briefly go through it. The Apple Valley
Red-E-Mix had a conditional use for their operation and that uso ran out here in 1993. We
pushed the issue that we were not going to renew'their use. Conditional use permit. Thus
they contested that the conditional use permit was for only a portion of their operation but
findings came down and said that it would be, it was for a major portion of their operation.
So with that, with any condemnation, they expressed if they would have to relocate, that they
would have a loss of business. So we took that to Court and the Courts ruled in our favor.
That loss of business or concern over losing business was not permissible. With that, there
was a variety of different negotiations that were going on. They wanted the right to redevelop
this site and wanted a condition that we find a new location for them. We didn't want to get
into that. We said we want to purchase your property and you find your own location. So
that's how we proceeded with the thing and now it's down to a settlement of pure land costs.
Right now the estimate for the area being considered is roughly $6.80 a square foot. That is
a very fair price. I think we paid the Taco Shoppe $6.00 a square foot for their site and that
was very limited space that you could operate with the Taco Shoppe. And these guys have a
much larger piece of property that opens up a variety of different options that you can use
their site for than what the Taco Shoppe could be used for. With that, staff is in agreement
with the City Attorney in awarding, or settling this agreement at $6.80 per square foot,
making the final settlement payment of $530,000.00 to Apple Valley Red-E-Mix.'
Bohn: How much did we pay for the property where the Americana Bank is and that
property we have for sale?
Gerhardt: We paid $1.50 for the Les Renner piece. And I think it was less for the Burdick
land. I think the pond was like $.72 per square foot. And I think it was a dollar, $1.25 for
the rest of it. Where Americana sits.
Bohn: How about where Target and Taco Bell and stuff is?
Gerhardt: Target was purchased at $4.00.
Boyle: Does this go in front of City Council also?
Gerhardt: Yes. It's on for Monday night.
Boyle: Any questions?
Bohn: It seems like an awful lot of money.
16
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Boyle: It seems like an awful lot but it's been going on for so long. Obviously it appears as
though there's been a lot of study, a lot of negotiations as you said Todd and it's come right
down to it. I guess $6.80 a square foot seems reasonable..
Chmiel: Yeah, I know it is. What was the price Burdick got for his property?
Bohn: Who?
Chmiel: Burdick. From Richfield.
Bohn: For the Richfield Bank?
Chmiel: Richfield Bank. What did that go for?
Gerhardt: I think, from what I've heard it's ranged anywhere from $10.00 to $11.50. There's
a variety of different things that had to occur. There were some title issue problems and
easements and by the time you settle those out, I think it was closer to the $10.50. The
settlement that you made with Charlie James down here was closer to the $8.00 a square foot
toO.
Boyle: I make a motion then that we approve the agreement for the balance of the
$1 lO,O00.O0 for AVR.
Bohn: I'll second it.
Boyle moved, Bohn seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority approve
settlement agreement wilh Apple Valley Red-E-Mix and flint tim balance of $110,000.00 be
forward to AVIL Ali vo~ed in favor and the motion carded.
Chmiel: It's been a long time going of getting that out of that particular location is an
environmental improvement as far as aesthetics are concerned.
¢'~NSIDER CHANGING THE PATHS OF THE PEDI~TRIAN BRIDGE FROM
BrruM OUS TO CON
Gerhardt: This last fall when we brought back this concept for the pedestrian bridge, MnDot
made a requirement to us that when you use ISTEA dollars, the physical structure is the only
thing that they would be bidding out. They would not include the trail segments for this
project. So with that, I met with MnDot and asked them, I said is there the option of maybe
processing this as a change order. Having the concrete embankments and abutments that the
17
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
bridge will sit on, on both the north and south side, that we have a bid item on there for
concrete per square foot. And with that bid item it was included at roughly $2.50 per square
foot. The best estimate that we can come up with right now for bituminous is $1.33 per
square foot. And wherever we've had the option to put concrete in, we~ve tried to do it. And
some of the examples we use is that all the trail segments that Eden Prairie has put in, you
see a variety of sections over there that have deteriorated in the last 10 years to where they've
had to come in and patch. Had to come in and do extensive sealcoating. I think, I don~t
know how the trail is that you ride on a lot but we've found that the concrete sidewalks are,
will last longer. They're less of a maintenance. You don't have to worry about se~lcoating.
Patching them. You will have to, if you do get some settling, you will have some cracking
that you might have to go in and replace sections but we think they're longer lasting and are a
little less maintenance free and that the $5,000.00 that you would save in doing this, will pay
out in the long mn. With that, we would like to see the I-IR direct staff to issue change
order No. 1 for the installation of concrete trails on both the north and south side of the
pedestrian bridge and connect to the existing trails in the are~
Bohn: The trails they connect to on the south side is concrete but the trail on the north side
is asphalt.
Gerhardt: The reason for the trail over there is we didn't have concrete work with tho except
of curb for the Hanus project is where we put that trail in_ So we had bid items for the trail
segment there so we went with bituminous. And so it's unfortunate that we put that in. We
should have spent the extra money and put concrete in there. But at the time, we thought that
it would probably cost us more in the project in adding that segment of concrete and not
having another bid item for it.
Bohn: Is that stuff, this is off the subject but that stuff thafs along that trail where it comes
up behind that building, there's fires and everything else back there. It looks like a junlcyard.
Gerhardt: There are some tires back there and we've wanted to keep the tires there because
of the amount of truck work that's going to occur back there yet. So they'd lay out along the
curb so they don't damage the curb. But the sooner they're done with that work, Mike will
pick them up. Take them out to the public works and then have Carver County hazardous
waste pick them up.
Bohn: Are those city tires?
Gerhardt: No. They're were abandoned there.
Bohn: Like that phasing unit that's back there too.
18
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Gerhardt: Right. I think that got picked up.
Mark Senn made a comment from the audience that was not picked up by the microphone.
Chmiel: I question that and the reason I say that Mark is, I talked to engineers again today.
They say your life expectancy for concrete is at least 30 years. You get for asphalt anywhere
between 10 and 15.
Mark Senn: Yeah, but asphalt is very easy to patch.
Chmiel: Sure it is.
Mark Senn: Concrete, you have to remove full sections and replace it. On a trail, concrete
presents some real safety hA?~rds because...and settling occurs and you end up with
substantial sometimes differences in the elevations. I mean I do 20 miles of this a day and I
tell you, I hate concrete ones. You trip over them. YouN, e got to keep your eyes open
constantly on them. When you're biking. When you're running. I consider concrete trails to
be one of the worst safety hazards in the world for what you use them for. Whether you're
rollerblading, biking or whatever. And granted, you can use the long term argument on the
maintenance but in the short term maintenance, you know sometimes you save that because if
you have a problem with asphalt, it's real cheap and real easy to go out and patch asphalt.
Not real easy to go out and jack hammer out a whole section of concrete every time it settles
wrong. And Chanhassen's famous for our wonderful soils, and I'll tell you, that's a real
problem around here where we use concrete because this section over here may sag 2 inches
and this section over here decides it doesn't and I just you know, I just think asphalt gives
you a lot more flexibility and I think in the long run, less cost.
Chmiel: No, that's not true. That's not true.
Mark Senn: ...had a trail system that goes long enough to find that out.
Chmieh No, by I'm talking with other people who have done the installations within their
particular communities.
Mark Senn: Well, see that's different than trails and that's what I want to argue.
Chmiel: No, no. I'm not talking about roadways. I'm tal~ng trails.
Mark Senn: Trails or sidewalks?
19
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sune 22, 1995
Chmiel: Either or. Well, it's one and almost in the same.
Mark Senn: No, they're not the same. Sidewalks, you've got concrete curb and gutter and all
that. It's a whole different story than free standing trails. It's a whole different installation.
Chmiel: I guess I don't agree with that part
Mark Senn: Go try them. I'll bet you you'll see the 'differences.
Chmiel: Well I agree. You get more sound with concrete than you do with tar, as far as tires
are concerned on highways. But I asked two different engineers and...to go with and that's
what I keep looking at the long run.
Mark Senn: I think the State's got to be considering...I don't think they're taking that into
account.
Boyle: How many feet are we talking about here? Todd, maybe it's on here. I didn't put on
my glasses.
Gerhardt: Yeah, it's 4,140 square feet but the distance, boy ifs tough to read off of this. On
the map.
Boyle: It's just this little black.
Gerhardt: Yeah.
Boyle: I shouldn't say little black but I guess what I'm really trying to determine is how
much.
Mark Senn: ...bridge segment. I mean if you're building, the trail segment is almost, just on
a straight line basis, almost twice the distance of the bridge.
Bohn: Yeah.
Mark Senn: It's not a small section.
Bohn: The thing I like about, I agree with the, I think it's nicer to walk on the asphalt
because the broken concrete. The only thing I don't like about the tar is you get puddles in
them where it sinks and you have water standing on tar where you don't on concrete.
20
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Mark Senn: Jim, I agree but to me as a user, that's better to deal with than the other.
Bohn: But I've walked on some of the sidewalks, even in Chanhassen, and some places are
different than others. They don't match because of the heating. So you've got the good thing
from one and you've got the good thing on the other. Both of them you've got drawbacks.
Boyle: Yeah, it really does. I can see, I think economically the cement probably over long
term would take less cost over a 20 year period say. The safety issue is a concern. That
definitely is something we should be concerned about. But what raised the issue? Why the
thought of changing Todd? How did this initiate?
Gerhardt: The one thing was that we've got a contractor out there and he's going to start
putting the concrete down. He'll do the little embankments down here and then he can just
keep going. With the blacktop, I've got to get, I~ve got to go out to either Charles' road
project out here at Bluff Creek or we~,e got to use one of the other items. Maybe tonight we
could have that contractor who's going to make some of the repairs in the downtown area, to
see if he would include this trail segment to do it. So it's, I've got to go to a different project
and ask to take a change order off that project to have them come over here and do it. And
they're going to do it when it fits their schedule. With this one, the contractor's there. He
just keeps on rolling and pours the concrete out and it just makes it a little cleaner from a
project management standpoint.
Boyle: It's kind of hard to read. I'm guessing that's not more than, well. I was going to say,
a quarter mile maybe. At the longest point.
Chmiel: And it's not to scale when you get to that. Okay. I would make that
recommendation that I-IRA approve Change Order No. 1 for the installation of concrete trail
on each side of the pedestrian bridge based on the itemized bid amount included in the
original bid.
Boyle: I'll second that motion.
Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded that the Honsing and Redevelopment Amhodty approve
Ch_a~ge Order No. 1 for the installation of concrete trail on each side of the pedestrian bridge
based on the itemized bid mount included in the od.~insi bid. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
APPROVAL OF BILLS.
Boyle: Did you have any questions on those?
21
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Bohn: I noticed that BRW's up there again. That, my favorite.
Gerhardt: That was the demolition project on Pony Express.
Bohn: Still.
Gerhardt: Their total bid amount was close to $6,000.00 so thafs $355.00 of the $6,000.00.
They've sent out a monthly statement so last month, we finalized the project here. We got
final payment to be made to Ingram through this next Accounts Payable so you'll probably
see one more bill from BRW.
Chmiel: Oh, okay. I was just going to ask if that's the last one.
Bohn: What's the Oak Ponds senior site closing? That's for the land and for the. Now
Applebees are.
Gerhardt: That's the one I don't understand. There's probably $200.00 that went towards the
Oak Ponds and $493.00 that went towards the Applebees so it's, he had two issues that he
was working with me on. That's the grand total of $693.00 so I itemized that out. You don~t
see the itemized billing so.
Bohn: We haven't approved anything on Applebee's. I mean what are we paying fo~
'.
Gerhardt: I'm going to bring back to you a proposed purchase agreement so we've been
negotiating with them and for July I'll bring back a purchase agreement for your
consideration.
Bohn: And now this private development with Country Suites. That's that new contract Is
that with the money that.
Gerhardt: Expansion.
Bohn: For this TCF? I think it was TCF, TIF.
Gerhardt: Correct. New redevelopment district.
Chmiel: Okay, call for a motion.
Boyle: I will call for a motion that we approve the bills as stated.
Bohn: I'll second it.
22
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded llxat the Housing and Redevelopment Authority approve
Accounls Payable as presente& All voted in favor and the motion carried.
IrlPDATE ON WEST 79TH STREET PRO~.
Gerhardt: On the back of item number 8 is the preliminary layout for the West 79th Street
plan. Staff in the last 3 or 4 months have been worltng with Tires Plus and Applebees in
entering into a purchase agreement on the sale of this land. 'At this point I would hope within
the next two weeks that we'll be at the point where we could present to the HRA's July
meeting a proposed purchase agreement Based on the conditions that I presented to you 2 or
3 months ago, laying out for the redevelopment of this area. Selling the land at
approximately $8.50 a square foot and 50 cents of that land being used for the acquisition of
the MacCarville piece, which lies directly west of the Chanhassen Inn, whic~ is currently
controlled by Tires Plus. And that we would go in there and assume his purchase for
$120,000.00 and using that 50 cents to write that down by $70,000.00 and then the HRA's
cost of $50,000.00 through, in purchasing that property. And then using that land as the
possible relocation of the wetland that exists in the corner of this lot, in this location here.
Boyle: In that statement Todd, you said something about Tires Plus. What is their
relationship in Den's property?
Gerhardt: They have a purchase agreement on the MacCarville piece, which is due west of
the Chanhassen Inn. It sits in this location.
Boyle: Yeah, I know where it is. I'll be darn.
Gerhardt: They own this piece here. And the planners have told me that he could put a store
on that location. He would have to put pilings in and we brought back to the HRA, oh about
a year ago to consider purchasing the MacCarville piece. Since that time we felt that the land
was worth like 47 cents or, you know 27 cents a square foot. We didn't think it was worth
$120,000.00. So with that, MacCarville entered into a purchase agreement with Tires Plus
and now that Tires Plus had that, we felt that it was, that they wanted to, they would have
preferred to be over on our land than to be on that corner. They didn't want to deal with the
pilings and not being in a location that might be controversy going through say plan approval
and knowing that the city didn't want them there. So they felt that they would work with us
in selling us their land if they could be a part of this piece. Well, now they're buying a piece
of land that's at $8.50 and they do have some holding costs that are up and above the
$120,000.00 now. He is asking for option money between now and the time they close of
about $1,500.00 a month until they close up until the end of December. They want me to
tack that on as part of the purchase agreement and I said no. That our purchase agreement
23
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
will not exceed $120,000.00, and they've agreed to that. So however, they would like to see
us close as soon as possible so they can limit their exposure to that $1,500.00 a month. So
the benefits of having control of the MacCarville piece is one, if you ever do redevelop the
West 79th Street, you have to look at relocating a wetland and it makes sense that thafs a
close proximity in doing that, and Diane Desotelle had recommended that site be a possible
location for the relocation of that wetland. And two, it sits at the back of the Applebees site.
It doesn't have great visibility from Highway 5. As to the parking layout, in the evenings
when Applebees has got, their business is at a peak, Tires Plus' is not So you can do a
shared parking arrangement so the Applebees people can use the Tires Plus parking area.
Chmiel: What's the status of Fuddrucker's for that other 4,900 square foot?
Gerhardt: That is, it's getting real close. He said he was going to call me today but he didn't.
But he's told me that he wants to use the same contractor that Applebees is using to build
their facility and I would say that they're at a 60% chance of happening right now.
Bohn: When does Applebees want to start?
Gerhardt: That's what we're negotiating right now. They want to close on the property on
April of 1996. They've got all the dollars allocated for the year 1995, and I said well, then
we'd like to be the first one. We'd like to close the end of January of 1995. And from what
I've been told, they've agreed to that. But I haven't talked to Jim today to see if he confirmed
that. So instead of April of 1995, we would close the end of January, 1996. Bumping it up a
couple of months.
Boyle: How does that 5,000, whatever 3 square feet compare say to Perkins? Is that?
Gerhardt: It's about the same size as Perkins.
Bohn: Has anybody shown any interest in the other comer?
Gerhardt: The 4,900 square foot is the building pad for Fuddruckers restaurant. On the back,
piece here I've talked to the tenants in the old bank building. Made them aware that this site
is available, if they're interested in locating on there. I've talked to Dairy Queen. They are
not interested in taking of acquisition at that dollar price. I've talked to Pi'oex has shown a
strong interest in taking lease space there and they would have to find somebody, and I've
talked to a developer that might come in and build that and lease it back to him. So that's a
possibility. There's a video store but I shied away from them, thinking that wo~ve already got
enough video stores in town. And so trying to find a use that doesn't compete with the rest
of downtown.
24
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Boyle: That's good.
Gerhardt: I would hope that our July meeting, that Tires Plus and Applebees would be on for
your approval o£ a purchase agreement. And Fuddruckers, they've just changed the names on
the Applebees purchase agreement and it would be the same agreement, I would hope. So if
they come in and want to sign at that time, we could have that one then also.
Boyle: Well we definitely won't go hungry, will we?
Gerhardt: No. We won't go hungry.
Boyle: Don, did you have any questions?
Chmiel: No.
Boyle: Jim.
Bohn: No.
Boyle: Thank you Todd.
Gerhardt: The Planning Commission also reviewed, Mike Meyer is a Planning Commission
member and Kate Aanenson showed this concept to them last night and it was well received.
Bohn: It's better than the first one you showed us. Much better.
Gerhardt: And I've also shown it to Americana Bank. In this version it shows the access,
joint access between the bank property and this property and Americana is very interested in
having that. However, the site plan for Tires Plus is now pushing that access more in line
with their island so as a flow, traffic flow, it's not as good but I'm going to take it down,
plans down to Mr. Schultz and they're going to review it again and see what they can come
up with.
Boyle: There was some concern at one time also Todd on whether we could keep the curve
on the road but this looks like it fits well.
Gerhardt: Yes.
Boyle: We wouldn't have to change the structure of the current.
25
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - 1une 22, 1995
Gerhardt: I've asked Strgar to send me their analysis and they haven't completed that yet so
that would be a part of their site plan approval. It'd have to go to Planning Comrrdssion and
City Council for their approval on this. And with that, engineering would take a detailed
look at traffic flow and concerns in this are~ So that report will be crucial to their review.
Boyle: Okay. That takes us to HRA presentations.
HRA PREqENTATIONS:
Boyle: You wanted to talk a little bit about the update on Great Plains and Market
Boulevard.
Gerhardt: At our March meeting I handed out, or we had Denny Eyler from Strgar Roscoe
make a presentation to the HRA regarding geometrics of Great Plains Boulevard and Market
Boulevard. I thought Denny did an excellent job in coming up with some recommendations
and modifying these two street layouts. With that, staff was directed at looking at getting
some cost estimates. What we did is asked for bids and received bids from, or a quote from
C.S. McCrossen and with that, they did come under the estimate by approximately, oh a
couple thousand dollars. In the presentation of the cost estimates that Strgar presented to you,
the estimate was $93,155.00. That did not include the engineer cost at that time. So the total
project cost, including engineering is approximately $93,000.00. So it is right in line with
their estimates but their estimate report did not include their engineering costs so. This is the
report, and I'll just hand it out.
Bohn: I see they've still got painting.
Chmiel: Is McCrossen the only one who even would bid, did this go out in bids first of all?
Gerhardt: To be honest, I don't know if, how they did this. If McCrossen has got some work
that Charles is, as a part of the West 78th Street project, is still open and asked them if they
wanted to submit as a part of that using the same bid items. Charles worked on this and he
wasn't here and I said I've got an lIRA meeting tonight. They're not going to meet again
until Suly so I guess, I don't know how they really got the bids.
Chmiel: Well I'd like to see that at least from that standpoint because if this didn't go out for
bids, I think it should. And the cost estimates that were figured by Strgar, and we have
McCrossen coming in so close, I wonder if he saw Strgar's estimate.
Gerhardt: No.
26
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Suno 22, 1995
Chmiel: You know that's one of the things that I really insisted on that we do not publicly
show what our estimates are that we look at.
Gerhardt: The bids are $24,000.00 loss than Strgar's. So Strgar's proposal for the work was
$93,000.00. Their price is $69,000.00.
Chmiel: Okay. Okay.
Bohn: I see that the striping's still in there. I thought the City was going to do if?
Gerhardt: I talked to Charles about the guys doing the striping.
Bohn: I seen them out there early doing some striping.
Chmiel: They're doing it on Kerber. Our guys were.
Boyle: Todd, your objective obviously is to get this thing rolling. If we put it up for bid,
and I agree with Don that this really should go out for bid. What, is there a possibility this
could be completed before winter this year?
Gerhardt: It'd be real close. The problem that we're going to have is getting real competitive
bids mid year on anything. And fall is not a good time to take bids. We got caught in that
one other time and people are trying to wrap up projects furiously in the fall timeframe. You
know maybe if you want to bid it, then we hold off and do it next year maybe.
Bohn: This thing's been going on it seems like for 2 years. We've been complaining about
those two roads.
Boyle: Oh, I just am amazed there haven't been more accidents. I would really like to see it
get accomplished, personally. It's just kind of one of those things everybody talks about.
How could you be so stupid to do that.
Bohn: Yeah. We talked about this last fall.
Gerhardt: Yeah, and.
Bohn: And we haven't gotten any further than other than getting a bid. Nine months later.
Gerhardt: I agree.
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Housing and Redevelopment Authority - June 22, 1995
Bohn: What's holding it up?
Gerhardt: We've taken it as quickly as we can on doing this. Strgar came out in March and
made the presentation. They went out and got a quote from somebody to do this work. I
think, honestly it's a change order to the downtown project using the same bid items from the
downtown. $69,000.00 is a fairly good quote on the thing and I don't know if you're going to
see much lower than that if you go out to bids. I don't know if that answered your question
or not.
Boyle: Yeah, that price doesn't seem to be out of line, when he talked to us in March, they
were talking $100,000.00. I mean I remember that 90 some dollars so. That obviously came
in $20,000.00 some less because as you said before, it did include the engineering costs. So
the price seems reasonable with what information we know.
Gerhardt: Well, what I could do is, if you are leaning towards you know, giving this to C.S.
McCrossen, I can do more research and get a memo out to you next week, contingent upon
you know finding out how they didn't receive these bids and did they solicit more than one?
Is it a change order to the downtown project? I've got to think it's a change order to the
downtown project because I think we're violating some laws here if we didn't do it that way.
So if you didn't do it that way, then we should go to a competitive bid process.
Boyle: That would make me feel a lot more comfortable I think Todd. I think everybody -
would. And that's probably our best alternative at this time.
Gerhardt: Okay. So if it is a change order to the downtown project, your motion would be
to approve the bid received from C.S. McCrossen. If it was one where they solicited a bid
from C.S. McCrossen to do this work, then you'd like to see a competitive bid process be
accomplished?
Boyle: Exactly. Okay. Anything else? I'd like to have a motion for adjournment then.
Chmiel moved, Boyle seconded to adjourn Ihe meeting. All voted in favor and the motion
carded. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Gerhardt
Assistant Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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