CAS-32_THE GODDARD SCHOOL (3)1 Subject
Site
Proposed
Building
Location
Tho �s neither a legally recorded map nor a survey and is not intended to be used as one.
is a cortpilaticn of records, information and data located in venous city, county• state
an rel office. and other sources regar6rg Me area shovm, and is to be used for referencE
purposes only. The Qty does not warrant Mat the Geographic Information System (GIS) Data
used to prepare this rrep are error free, and Me City does not represent that der GIS Data can
be used for natigational, trocWN or any other purpose reguinng exacting measurement 0
distance or direction or precision in the depiction of geographic features. 9 errs or
discrepancies are found pease contact 952-227-1101. The preceding dadainler is prwlded
pursuant to Minnesota stables §4156.03. Subd. 21 (2000), and the user 0 this map
acknowiedges that the City shall not be liable for any darnages, and express y waives all chino,
and arpees to defend. intlertndy, and hold harMass Me city from,ywany and all claim brought by
User, its employees or agents, or third parties whir$u�"h�°dJgt'm'T[a
Provided.
0
CITY OF CHA HASSEN
7700 Market Boulevard
P.O. Box 147
Chanhassen, Minnesota 55317
www.d.chanhassen.nnn.it
P
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OIT 7 ( q
SCANNED
IND SCHO DIST 276
261 SCH AVE
EXCELS MN 55331
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A Notice of Public Hearing
CharAssen Planning Commissioreeeting
Dd & Time:
Tuesday, October 19, 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
L tion:
City Hall Council Chambers, 7700 Market Blvd.
Request for a Site Plan Review to construct a 6,400 square -
^f
foot retail building and a Conditional Use Permit to allow
}�osal:
multiple buildings on a single lot on property zoned
Neighborhood Business District - Chanhassen 7 & 41 Retail
Center
PjMningFile:
04-34
licant:
Flip Jam LLC
perry
Southwest intersection of Highways 7 & 41
ation:
A location map Is on the reverse side of this notice.
The purpose of this public hearing is to inform you about the
applicant's request and to obtain input from the neighborhood
about this project. During the meeting gthe Chair will lead the
public hearing through the following steps:
t Happens
e Meeting:
1. Staff will give an overview of the proposed project.
2. The applicant will present plans on the project.
3. Comments are received from the public.
4. Public hearing is closed and the Commission discusses
the Project.
If you want to see the plans before the meeting, please stop
by City Hall during office hours, 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.,
Monday through Friday. If you wish to talk to someone about
Questions &
this project, please contact Sharmeen AI-Jaff at 952-227-1134
Comments:
or e-mail saliaff@ci.chanhassen.mn.us. If you choose to
submit written comments, it is helpful to have one copy to the
department in advance of the meeting. Staff will provide
copies to the Commission.
City Review Procedure:
• Subdivisions, Planned Unit Developments, site Plan Reviews, Conditional and Interim Uses, Wetland Alterations,
Rezonings, Comprehensive Plan Amendments and Code Amendments require a public hearing before the
Planning Commission. City ordinances require all property within 500 feet of the subject site to be notified of the
application in writing. Any Interested party is invited to attend the meeting.
• Staff prepares a report on the subject application that includes all pertinent information and a recommendation.
These reports are available by request. At the Planning Commission meeting, staff will give a verbal overview of
the report and a recommendation. The Rem will be opened for the public to speak about the proposal as a part of
the hearing process. The Commission will close the public hearing and discuss the Item and make a
recommendation to the City Council. The City Council may reverse, affirm or modify wholly or partly the Planning
Commission's recommendation. Rezonings, land use and code amendments take a simple majority vote of the
City Council except rezonings and land use amendments from residential to commercial/industrial.
• Minnesota State Statute 519.99 requires all applications to be processed within 60 days unless the applicant
waives this standard. Some applications due to their complexity may take several months to complete. Any
person wishing to follow an Item through the process should check with the Planning Department regarding its
status and scheduling for the City Council meeting.
• A neighborhood spokesperson/representative is encouraged to provide a contact for the city. Often developers
are encouraged to meet with the neighborhood regarding their proposal. Staff Is also available to review the
project with any Interested person(s).
• Because the Planning Commission holds the public hearing, the City Council does not. Minutes are taken and
any correspondence regarding the application will be included In the report to the City Council. If you wish to have
sornethino to be includsdWn the report, please contact the Planning
Stag Person nam the notification.
• 0 vLA-3Z
Affidavit of Publication
Southwest Suburban Publishing
State of Minnesota)
)SS.
County of Carver )
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
Laurie A. Hartmann, being duly swom, on oath says that she is the publisher or the authorized
NCASE CCAASE E NONOSEN. 09-32
PLACIN
agent of the publisher of the newspapers known as the Chaska Herald and the Chanhassen Vil-
OF
lager and has full knowledge of the facts herein stated as follows:
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN
that the Chanhassen
A 'these newspapers have com lied with the requirements constituting qualification as a legal
()P 9 g 9 g
apubng
Commission will hold a public
newspaper, as provided by Minnesota Statute 33IA.02, 331A.07, and other applicable laws, as
hearing on Tuesday, October 5,
amended.
2004, at 7:00 p.m. in the Council
Chambers in Chanhassen City Hall,
(B) The printed public notice that is attached to this Affidavit and identified as No.�/-
�
7700 Market Blvd. The purpose of
this hearing is to consider a request
was published on the date or dates and in the newspaper stated in the attached Notice and said
for Sitefte Plan Review for the
Notice is hereby incorporated as part of this Affidavit. Said notice was cut from the columns of
construction of pe 8,008 square -foot
the newspaper specified. Printed below is a co of the lower case alphabet from A to Z, both
hereb used
dCentral
building on property caned Central
inclusive and is acknowledged as beingthe kind and size of in the composition
Y g type )"
Business District with an area of 124
and publication of the Notice:
acres located at the southeast
intersection of West 78- Street and
abcdefghijklmno xyz
Great Plains Boulevard. Applicant:
I
Fred Riese.
A plan showing the location of
A .
Yl
the proposal is available for public
B
review at City Hall during regular
Laurie A. Hartmann
business hours. All interested
persons are invited to attend this
public hearing and express their
opinionswithrespecttothisproposal.
Subscribed and sworn before me on
Sharmeen Al-
Jaff, Senior Planner
Email:
��1' flY`Ti rhanhaaNA iiL L
Phone: 952-227-
�
Say of 2004
1134
(Published in the Chanhassen
G1NEN M. RADI)ENZ
Villager on Thursday. September 23,
W T Y PU8l1C MRt1E90T4
2004: No. 4268)
M/Co 7wsvw&4muAn. 31,200.5
Notary Public
RATE INFORMATION
Lowest classified rate paid by commercial users for comparable space.... $22.00 per column inch
Maximum rate allowed by law for the above matter ................................ $22.00 per column inch
Rate actually charged for the above matter ............................................... $10.55 per column inch
$CANNED
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING
PLANNING CASE NO. 04-32
CITY OF CHANHASSEN
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the Chanhassen Planning Commission will hold a
public hearing on Tuesday, October 5, 2004, at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers in
Chanhassen City Hall, 7700 Market Blvd. The purpose of this hearing is to consider a request for
Site Plan Review for the construction of an 8,068 square -foot building on property zoned Central
Business District with an area of 1.24 acres located at the southeast intersection of West 78'h Street
and Great Plains Boulevard. Applicant: Fred Riese.
A plan showing the location of the proposal is available for public review at City Hall
during regular business hours. All interested persons are invited to attend this public hearing and
express their opinions with respect to this proposal.
Sharmeen AI-Jaff, Senior Planner
Email: saliaff@ci.chanhassen.mn.us
Phone: 952-227-1134
(Publish in the Chanhassen Villager on September 23, 2004)
SCANNED
6y --3Z
City Council Summar*ctober 11, 2004 •
b. Resolution #2004-72: Approve Resolution Amending the 2004 MSA
Improvement Project Assessment Roll, Project 04-02.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Mary Herschberger-Thun with the Community Education Board discussed Community
Education Day on October le and invited City Council members and the public to
attend a meeting being held at the Chanhassen Library in the Longfellow Room from
6:30 to 7:30 p.m.. Similar meetings will be held in other cities within the District 112
boundaries on the same day and time.
Judy Schmieg, 200 West 77`s Street spoke about her intent on keeping the parcel of land
where the Goddard School is proposed, that the City keep that land as vacant parkland.
She asked for clarification on the status of the property, whether the City owns it or not
and if it can be resold at this time. She read quotes from old newspaper articles stating
this area of town would remain a park. Reiterating the fact that 160 signatures had been
collected in 2 days when they heard that all of a sudden the city had sold the land and 160
people don't know anything about it and don't want it sold. She asked what it will take
for the residents to keep this piece of property. Mayor Furlong asked the city manager to
provide historical background on this site. Judy Schmieg asked for clarification on a
citizen's rights to attend and speak at an IDA meeting and public notification. She
reiterated the question, what can the citizens do to keep this parcel as public parkland.
Dick Mingo, 7601 Great Plains Boulevard stated he was the gentleman who mailed the e-
mail to the City Council. Having been a resident of Chanhassen for 47 years and playing
baseball for the Chanhassen Red Birds for 4 years prior to that, and working for the
Minnesota Twins and traveling all over the upper Midwest, he's seen all the scenic little
parks and churches in small communities and would like to save the historic piece of
Chanhassen in old St. Hubert's church and the old village hall and a park along with that.
He had concern with the size of the building and parking on such a small parcel of land.
He also asked if there was a contingency of approval by the City Council on the purchase
agreement which could stop the project. He also expressed concern with the size and
location of the playgrounds. Tom Lentz, 404 Santa Fe Circle, who has lived there since
1969 stated he too was against development of this green area. He provided information
from the Carver County Herald, articles dating to 1989 and 1987 about the historical
significance of this area. He suggested that Chanhassen should have a preservation or
heritage commission that reviews proposals such as this. Mayor Furlong asked staff to
clarify the location of the brick plaza in old town square. Todd Gerhardt clarified the
location of the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus buildings and that the businesses were sold under
threat of condemnation. Mr. Lentz continued to question the blocking of views of the
historic value of this area. Ron Roeser, 222 Chan View stated he was present to plead the
case to keep the property open, and read excerpts from the history book on Chanhassen.
Jack Atkins, 220 West 78'b Street questioned the mailing that was sent out for the public
hearing and suggested in the future on any commercial development happening in
downtown, to extend the mailings to 2,500 feet. While he liked the concept of the
2 SCANK o
City Council Summarwctober 11, 2004 •
Goddard School, he felt it belongs on a different piece of property in Chanhassen, such as
along Highway 5. Tom Lentz asked for further clarification if there was proper public
notification of the public hearing.
Sergeant Jim Olson and Chief Greg Geske provided an update on President Bush's visit
to Chanhassen on Saturday, October 9'h from a security and safety standpoint.
Councilman Ayotte asked Sergeant Olson to explain what was learned from operation of
the EOC, Emergency Operations Center. Todd Gerhardt provided an update on vehicles
parked and EOC operations. Mayor Furlong thanked all the city, county, and volunteers
who helped to make the event so successful and a historic day for the City of
Chanhassen. Councilman Lundquist thanked the city and staff from his perspective as
being involved with President Bush's campaign and expressed the campaign's gratitude
for how well the event ran.
REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A
Public Present:
Name Address
Judy Schmieg
Joanne Meuwissen
Rick Engelhardt
Mel Kurvers
Julia Prinz
Thomas Lentz
Curt Robinson
Gladys Hanna
Ron Roeser
Franklin J. Kurvers
Rosemary & Dick Mingo
Jack Atkins
Brandy Geiger
Fred & Valaire Riese
David Helmer
200 West 77`6 Street
201 West 770' Street
403 Santa Fe Trail
7240 Kurvers Point Road
408 Santa Fe Circle
404 Santa Fe Circle
202 West 77`6 Street
1321 Lake Drive West
222 Chan View
7220 Kurvers Point Road
7601 Great Plains Boulevard
220 West 78`6 Street
1016 W. 9th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA
9154 Sunnyvale Drive
7201 York Avenue So #1306, Edina
Kate provided background information on planning that had taken place reviewing the
historical preservation of this area of town. Councilman Ayotte asked for clarification on
the citing of the old village hall. She then presented the site plan and provided an update
on Planning Commission review. Councilman Labatt asked staff to clarify the zoning on
this parcel. Councilman Ayotte clarified where the old village hall would have to be
moved to meet historic preservation standards, study of this area's historical significance,
and questions regarding the traffic study review. Mayor Furlong asked staff to explain
City Council Summar3&ctober 11, 2004 0
the public notification procedures used by the city, questions regarding the traffic study,
the height of the buildings that were previously at this location, the previous route of
Highway 101 through this property, parking requirements for the current use and future
use of the building, and signage. Specifically a requirement for no neon lighting.
Councilman Ayotte asked for further clarification on aesthetics of the building,
landscaping and the traffic study. Fred Riese, 9154 Sunnyvale Drive spoke as the
applicant, stressing their desire to maintain the historic quality of the site. He outlined all
the architectural detailing, landscaping and parking arrangements with the church and
Chamber of Commerce. After council discussion the following motion was made.
Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council
approve Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown
on the plans dated received September 3, 2004, subject to the following conditions:
1. Applicant shall preserve all existing trees south of the grading limits and outside of
the property lines. Any trees removed will be replaced at a rate of 2:1 diameter
inches.
2. Applicant shall move the red maple shown in the southeastern corner of the site to a
location within the grading limits. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the
city.
3. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will have to be obtained including
but not limited to the MPCA and Watershed District.
4. Add detail sheet showing City Detail Plate Nos. 1002, 1006, 2001, 3101, 3102, 5201,
5203, 5214 and 5300.
5. Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges are applicable for the new building. The
2004 trunk hookup charge is $1,458 for sanitary sewer and $2,814 for watermain.
Sanitary sewer and watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the
parcel at the time of building permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the
number of SAC units assigned by the Met Council.
6. Prior to building permit issuance, all plans must be signed by a professional civil
engineer registered in the state of Minnesota.
7. Any retaining wall over 4 feet in height must be designed by a Structural Engineer
registered in the State of Minnesota and require a permit from the Building
Department. A 4 -foot safety fence must be included on top of the wall where
adjacent to a pedestrian walkway.
8. On the site plan, revise the handicap parking stall from 9 -inch to 9 -feet.
9. On the utility plan:
- Revise the sanitary sewer pipe class from SDR35 to SDR26.
0
City Council SummaActober 11, 2004 •
- Revise the watermain pipe from CL55 to CL52.
10. Show all existing easements on the plans.
11. Revise the plans to provide a minimum of 1.5 feet of elevation difference between the
FFE of the building and the emergency overflow elevations of the side yard areas.
12. Storm sewer sizing calculations for a 10 -year storm event must be submitted prior to
building permit approval
13. Tree protection fencing must be installed around all trees in the construction zone that
will remain.
14. All roof top equipment shall be screened.
15. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the
necessary financial securities.
16. Fire Marshal Conditions:
a. The building will be built to the 2000 International Fire Code as adopted by the
State of Minnesota not the NFPA 1012000 Life Safety Code.
b. Builder must comply with the following Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire
Prevention policies (copies enclosed):
• 01-1990 regarding fire alarm systems
• 04-1991 regarding notes to be included on all site plans
• 07-1991 regarding pre -fire plan drawings.
• 29-1992 regarding premise identification
• 36-1994 regarding proper water line sizing
• 40-1995 regarding fire protection systems
• 34-1993 regarding water service installation
c. The 4 -inch ductal iron pipe as shown on page C4-1 should be no smaller than 6 -
inch per NFPA 13 Sect. 9-1.3.
17. Building Official conditions:
a. The building is required to be protected by automatic fire extinguishing systems.
b. The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
c. The accessible parking spaces must be located on the shortest possible route to the
buildings served.
d. Roof drain piping must be air tested within 10 feet of the building.
e. Detailed occupancy related requirements will not be reviewed until complete
plans are submitted for a building permit.
E The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as
soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
W
City Council Summar,*ctober 11, 2004
18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed
sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided
prior to requesting a sign permit. No neon or high intensity lighting will be allowed."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
The City Council took a short recess at this point.
REQUEST FOR A PRIVATE KENNEL PERMIT, 8561 FLAMINGO DRIVE,
LINDY & DENISE HOLLINGSWORTH.
Justin Miller presented the staff report on this item. Councilman Ayotte asked for
clarification on the permitting process and the number of kennel permits in the city.
Mayor Furlong asked for further clarification on the process and complaints received on
this permit application. Lindy and Denise Hollingsworth spoke as the applicants at 8561
Flamingo Drive asking that the council approve their permit application. Councilman
Labatt asked the applicants if their dogs had ever bitten anybody, to which they replied
no.
Councilman Labatt moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded that the City Council
approve the application for a private kennel permit at 8561 Flamingo Drive pending
registration of all animals listed on the application. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
AWARD OF BIDS, COUNTRY OAKS NEIGHBORHOOD DRINAGE
IMPROVEMENT PROTECT.
Lori Haak presented the staff report on this item. Councilman Labatt clarified which
properties were involved in this project to ensure he did not have a conflict of interest
with his parent's property. Councilman Lundquist asked for clarification on which
properties will benefit from this project.
Resolution #2004-73: Councilman Ayotte moved, Councilman Lundquist seconded
to award the construction contract for the Country Oaks Drainage Improvement
Project SWMP 12 -BB to Kusske Construction Company in the amount of
$18,450.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4
to 0.
CONSIDER RESOLUTION FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CLEAN-UP, MOON
VALLEY.
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Councilman Labatt asked staff to
outline any risks to the city.
0
City Council Meeting Ictober 11, 2004
Judy Schmieg: Mayor, did you say now is the time to speak?
Mayor Furlong: Yes ma'am.
Judy Schmieg: On an issue that will come up later.
C,,ac�a
Mayor Furlong: No, now would be the time to come forward. And that way we can be
sure to address your issue when we get to that point on our agenda. So if you'd like to
come forward now.
Judy Schmieg: My name is Judy Schmieg. I live at 200 West 77`s Street and for the new
business, I just wanted to take this opportunity to ask the council to not to sell the parcel
of land at the Goddard School plot. That it's very important, we've done a lot of work
and I understand that this property has not been sold. We were told at the Planning
Commission, is that correct? This property has not been sold.
Mayor Furlong: I believe we have signed a purchase agreement, have we not? That was
conditioned upon site plan approval and other conditions that are typical.
Judy Schmieg: Justin, I believe it was you that told us at the Planning Commission this
land was not sold. That this is still our land.
Justin Miller: The property has not been sold. Title still holds with the City of
Chanhassen. They have a purchase agreement so it's just like if you have a purchase
agreement with a house.
Judy Schmieg: But can you back out of that?
Justin Miller: I'd have to refer to the City Attorney for that.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, there are a number of contingencies that have to be satisfied in
the purchase agreement, but if they're satisfied we've obligated to sell the property for
the agreed price.
Judy Schmieg: So if this property was condemned, can they just go out and sell it
without offering it back to the original owners?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. So once it's condemned, that doesn't make any difference. They
can condemn it and resell it.
Roger Knutson: That's correct.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. Because I had heard different but I'll check that out later. The
other thing then is what you're telling us is you sold our land without asking us or even
3
61- 3Z
SCAUHM
City Council Meeting 10tober 11, 2004 •
giving us an opportunity to do anything about it when it's a very important piece of
property. It was told to us that it would be a park. It would stay as a historical district
and I think the Planning Commission asked the staff to look for where we would get that
idea that it was a park and stuff, and what did you find?
Justin Miller: We did check. We did not find any records of any City Council action
saying that it would remain a park or a historical area.
Judy Schmieg: So you didn't find anything Kathryn? Oh, okay. Well I found something
even though it was like 2 days. This kind of thing, it was talked about building on the
history and about the, the Chanhassen historical town, how St. Hubert's Catholic Church,
Cemetery for the nucleus representing 19'b century, blah, blah, blah. It will be a park.
That is one thing and I can show you that later. And then there was also work done. It
says that the actual work on two roads will begin within the next 2 weeks. The city plans
to build 22 foot clock tower in Old Town Square. Will also be created between the
relocated original city hall building, St. Hubert's church constructed, this is going to be
the first of our park. It goes on to state that they're putting in a grand, or a clock. A
village clock tower. The location chosen for the clock tower is a pocket park at the east
end of the village center. I have like 6 more that I could find. I really feel bad that staff
doesn't care enough to at least try to find out why the city residents are so upset about
this. We did a lot of work to get there.
Mayor Furlong: If I could ask you to address the council with your comments rather than
staff, thank you.
Judy Schmieg: Well, I would like you to let the staff know that the city residents, it's
kind of disappointing that you really care. And again, as representatives of the people,
why are there 160 signatures in 2 days when we hear about it that all of a sudden you
have sold the land and 160 people don't know anything about it and don't want it sold.
Not to mention there are more than 160 people that don't want it sold. That's a 2 day
thing. And we worked so hard to keep it as a historical district and by putting in a black
top roof you know, shingled black wood shingles to, the whole center that covers up the
church and you don't have to worry about seeing so much roof line because the trees will
cover everything up. That was not the intent of that piece of property. And we did buy
that property. We paid for it. Why you're selling it for $600,000 when I think the council
just sold 4 1/2 acres, which is 4 times that land for a million, I mean it can't be financial
because it doesn't seem like you put a lot of thought into you know where the money was
going to. But this piece of property is important to a lot of people and to the town in the
long term. Not the short term but the long term. And we've been trying to find out how
do you keep it. How, we're the residents. We own it. You're the representatives. Why
is this working so poorly? That the communication when all of a sudden it's sold and got
a project. You know and it's got a purchase order and we have no say about our little
piece of property. That's the only piece of historical property and someone mentioned
there could be a pioneer monument or sculpture or something. It is nice to have a little
park with a bench or whatever. That was the purpose of this sidewalk and that
connecting, and I would like to know how I can get that little piece of property to stay in
4
City Council Meeting Actober 11, 2004 is
the community of Chanhassen and not have a daycare or anything else on this little piece
of property that technically belongs to the citizens of Chanhassen. So I'm going to ask
you, you just tell me what it would take to keep this piece of property.
Mayor Furlong: I don't know that I have that answer right now. In terms of the process,
I know this council has been looking at that property, I'm trying to remember when the
Grill and Chill, Chill and Grill first came forward. I think that was early 2003.
Timeframe, first quarter 2003.
Todd Gerhardt: About 2 years ago.
Mayor Furlong: Was it? You know not having the advantage of the articles that, or
whatever you're referring to ma'am, again I think the EDA as an economic development
authority.
Judy Schmieg: Which is the council.
Mayor Furlong: That is the council. That always hasn't been that way but that is the way
it is now. And it acquired that land when? Maybe Mr. Gerhardt, could you give us some
history on this.
Todd Gerhardt: Sure. We purchased what we called the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus site in
probably the early 1990's and the intent was to try to redevelop the area. We brought two
development proposals back to the City Council. I believe one was a retail development
with housing. That was denied. And then the Grill and Chill was the last, and that was
denied. We believe that the daycare is a better use for this area. It's not retail oriented
that would create a lot of traffic. You would see traffic probably early morning and later
in the afternoon, and probably none on the weekends. So the intent was always to try to
create more activity on that end of town.
Judy Schmieg: That surprises me because you are quoted inhere too that just another
piece I'll pull up because there's tons of it around if you look for it. History, you know in
downtown kind of thing. Heritage Square which covers the old village hall stands as a
symbol of the City of Chanhassen's history. City officials and planners see the area
where St. Hubert's is a rice resource and have it planned as a historical section of town.
We have been told over and over that this would not, if you for 2 years have been looking
at Dairy Queen's or daycares or whatever you've been looking at for 2 years, it seems to
me you had an obligation to say to the people we're taking away this piece of property
from you. And that just would be from a common, you're representatives of the people.
Why is it the people did not know for 2 years and until we found out that there's approval
on the daycare.
Todd Gerhardt: There's never, Mr. Mayor, there's never been a plan for a park. The
articles that you're referring to are the articles which are Heritage Square Park, pocket
park that's there right now. It's the brick pavers with the trees inbetween St. Hubert's
and old village hall. There's detail plans in our engineering office. It was a part of the
5
• City Council Meeting October 11, 2004 •
downtown redevelopment. There were limestone pavers put in there that you could etch
individual's names in those with exposed aggregate outlining those areas. And
landscaping beds on both the south and the west side of the Heritage Square park. That's
what those articles were talking about. When we purchased the buildings, we came in.
We demo'd them right away so we didn't have activity with the youth or whoever may
get in there and do vandalism that we experienced at the bowling alley property for the
year and a half that we owned that. So there was no rush in doing the redevelopment.
Like I said, we brought two development proposals back. It did have resistance from the
neighborhood on those. I won't you know hide the fact. They're in the minutes. But at
this point staff recommended that a daycare could fit into this area with the parochial
school across the street, St. Hubert's, the old village hall. It kind of blended in with the
development and that was our discussion at the EDA level.
Judy Schmieg: I would like to comment on your development level and stuff when that
Pauly complex was brought in here, I guess they called it the Pryzmus or whatever but
when that was purchased, the roads, 101 at that time was not going through there, or
Great Plains Boulevard excuse me, was not going to be going through there because all
the plans and everything would show it, that was one of the original. The road went
through and the clock was set up and stuff and that stayed historical district and it didn't
have to be approved as a park that the park department had to take it over because it
wasn't big enough. And it wasn't going to have any required... and a bench, and that was
the extent of the park so there was no need to go to the council and have a park take over
that piece of property as a park. But like it was called a pocket park, like you mentioned,
that is everybody assumed, not assumed. Knew from all the articles and told over and
over that that is a historical district and that will remain that way. Now, my problem is
up to this point all of a sudden here we are and I need to know how, what we can do to
keep that park. That piece of property belongs to the citizens and they have worked very
hard through all of these developments that you've done, that we were at one time going
to have a new building... swimming pool. Another community center...
Todd Gerhardt: No, I remember.
Judy Schmieg: It was in the paper...
Todd Gerhardt: I lived through it.
Judy Schmieg: So other than that development ... I care a lot about having that history in
this town that worked hard, a lot of people to do that and these must be something where
we can do ... to maintain our piece of property.
Councilman Lundquist: From a, just from a council and EDA perspective, we do
appreciate your passion and, or I appreciate your passion in that. However, you have a
lot of articles and things from the past but these proposals have been out there as well.
The Goddard School has been in front of us, the council or EDA at least 2 or 3 times.
They're published, everything's published in the newspaper. The plans have been
published in the newspaper prior to the EDA meetings.
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• City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Judy Schmieg: Can we speak at an EDA meeting? They told me that that is, EDA was
not the public forum. Like I tried to attend the EDA meeting.
Councilman Lundquist: EDA meetings are open to the public.
Judy Schmieg: Can you speak at them and have an opinion to decide what to do?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Judy Schmieg: So everybody could have come to the EDA meeting. I went through the
papers for the last, I think 3 or 4 months, 5 months maybe. I went through every single
paper looking for anything that had that Goddard on it and did find EDA was, there was a
proposal, a Dairy Queen I think or something else but as far as knowing that you were
going to sell our piece of land, I didn't see anything that said people, we're thinking
about selling that and turning it into retail.
Justin Miller: Mr. Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Mr. Miller.
Justin Miller: April 14th, Wednesday, April 14th I'm looking, 2004, Chanhassen Villager.
Title of the article, Development Proposal for Historical Downtown Site. It outlines the
Dunn Brothers coffee shop as well as the Goddard School. Thursday, August 26th.
Judy Schmieg: I got that. Now from April to August, so what do we think happened
inbetween there. Did you ... what happened.
Justin Miller: Yes, I'll tell you what happened. In April there was a meeting.
Judy Schmieg: No, I mean the public. Did you put that in a newspaper that the public
knew what happened April 14th. I mean did we know. I really wait until I thought was,
is how the procedure works. You are representatives of us.
Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Absolutely ma'am, and I think at the, and correct me if I'm
wrong Mr. Miller. At the April IDA meeting, that's when the EDA or the council sitting
as the IDA was first presented with this as a concept. You know to sell city owned
property to the Goddard School and at that time they were looking at both Goddard and
Dunn Brothers. That's changed. Dunn Brothers is out of this proposal. As a concept and
as an EDA did we think that it was worthwhile for the staff to continue to discuss and
negotiate the sale of that property with individuals that are building the Goddard School.
So what transpired between April at that meeting when it was first proposed to us, and
our August meeting is that the staff and the private parties were looking at negotiating.
They were working with our planning staff to look at possible site plans and those types
of things so that's what was transpiring during that time.
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Judy Schmieg: ...any importance or responsibility to the citizens with big letters to say
we're going to sell that piece of property people. Nobody felt any responsibility to let the
people know. Now EDA is not usually open meetings, and again maybe the new ones...
Mayor Furlong: Oh, quite the contrary. They're an open meeting, absolutely. That's
why they're published. You know I think ma'am the issue too is that there's a legal
requirement for public notice and Mr. Attorney, correct me if I'm wrong, okay. And then
there are other things that can be done. One example is I believe for, and correct me if
I'm wrong here, on a public hearing we're required to notify residents within 300 feet.
As a city we extend that voluntarily to 500 feet, so there are ways that we can do that.
The issue here is, while there's public notice, we also benefit from and rely upon the
Chanhassen Villager, our local newspaper to sit in and report upon the actions that we're
considering and looking at. Okay? And that's where we get some articles and that's
usually where we get phone calls.
Judy Schmieg: Yeah, I never found an IDA meeting update in the Villager or.
Mayor Furlong: I think what I was referring to ma'am was that after our April EDA
meeting, is that when that first article was written Mr. Miller?
Justin Miller: Yes sir.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, that's one way to let people know.
Judy Schmieg:... anything until August, what did you say, the 10 or something? Okay,
now let me focus back. I need to know what can we do and it's not just me. I mean I
have the 160 signatures for you and we can get you 500 but we need to know what it is to
keep our land open on that piece, on that comer.
Mayor Furlong: Well I don't know that I have an answer for you. I heard the attorney
say we've entered into a purchase agreement which has multiple contingencies in it,
correct?
Roger Knutson: That's correct Mayor.
Mayor Furlong: You know. If you want, I don't know if you can address her answer.
Roger Knutson: What you can do is express your opinion to the council but they've
already signed a purchase agreement and if those contingencies are satisfied, we are
legally obligated to sell the land.
Councilman Ayotte: I'm going to, I'm not going to hold back. I've got to add
something. We have not put anything under a hat. This council and EDA has been forth
right the entire time. This is the first time I've seen you at a podium ma'am. And I've
been here every other Monday night and I've attended all the IDA meetings, so if you
have had a concern or if anyone else has had a concern, minus the e-mail I recently
City Council Meeting October 11, 2004 •
received, I have not heard from the community on this point. So I appreciate Brian's
polite approach to it, but I'm going tell you I don't appreciate being said that I don't
represent the people up here. I've worked darn hard for it and I don't think, in all due
respect, that that's a position that I welcome because we have done due diligence. We
have, I've talked to the Villager about this particular project. They have put articles in
the paper about this particular project.
Judy Schmieg: I read the articles in the paper.
Councilman Ayotte: Well for you to come here after the fact puts us in a bind. We are
legally bound to respond to the people who have offered to buy the property.
Judy Schmieg: My problem with you is, it is after the fact. How do you think we feel
about it? If there was something at the EDA that that should be, I'm not talking about
little stuff. This is a big thing and if you were representing the people you would know
the people out there want to keep that piece of land. So if what you're saying doesn't fit
with the actions.
Councilman Ayotte: Madam, I've received one e-mail, and it was just this week.
Judy Schmieg: And that's because we just heard. That's what we're trying to tell you.
We didn't do this because we didn't show up before. We really didn't know. How many
people know what an EDA, and they go to all the meetings to find out what the city's
doing? EDA's used to be closed. They now are open, and if there's something on the
EDA that you want to address you could come and I would guess you guys would listen,
but all I'm saying is, if you do represent the people, this would have been a big deal with
a lot of articles about the property, selling that piece of land. It could be used for
anything. It could be used for a daycare. It could be used for anything as long as it
complies with the no restriction requirements... because they weren't ever going to
develop it. So then the city setbacks and all of the requirements and every other piece of
land in town. How do we stop the sale?
Mayor Furlong: Okay, I guess, we made, you keep asking that question. I keep telling
you, I don't have an answer for you that.
Judy Schmieg: But you have to.
Mayor Furlong: No ma'am.
Judy Schmieg: But I'm here.
Mayor Furlong: Absolutely. Absolutely, and for you to just say that the EDA meetings
used to be closed and now they're open. That's a step in the right direction. As
Councilman Ayotte said, there wasn't anything hidden here. Was there a delay between
when we were working on and responding to requests and when you and some of your
neighbors found out about it? Perhaps. I find it difficult to think that any time the IDA
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
wants to consider selling a piece of property that the city owns that we're going to have
to notify by mail all the residents in the city because.
Judy Schmieg: Why? Why can't we know?
Mayor Furlong: Well, because, and you said yourself, you said yourself that we
represent the citizens. We are a representative democracy. What that means is, is that
not everybody will know about everything that's going on all the time, and what we do is
try to stay informed as representatives. Listen when people call us and e-mail us, and try
to do the best we can representing the citizens. Are we going to do that 100 percent to
your's or to anybody else's liking all the time? Absolutely not, and we're going to try to
make best decisions as often as we can. In this particular case it looks like you disagree
with the decision that the IDA made. How's that for stating the obvious? Okay. The
process is an issue and that's something that I was talking to Mr. Gerhardt about today
after looking through the packet this weekend about the, you know there was a mis-step
here. How do we improve that? We may not be able to do it for this one particular
property, but how do we improve it going forward? I mean we need to have.
Judy Schmieg: ... public hearing meetings on developing that site. What happened to the
public hearing on this item? No. It never happened, did it?
Councilman Lundquist: The public hearing for that property occurred at the Planning
Commission.
Judy Schmieg: There was never a city public hearing. Planning Commission informed
us they can't do anything other than ... abide by the rules. So we waited, when was the
public hearing for the city? It didn't happen.
Councilman Lundquist: There was an EDA meeting ma'am, and part of the
responsibility, as the mayor stated in a democracy is also to keep yourself informed. As
the mayor stated. It wouldn't be feasible or prudent for us to mail out to every citizen
every time what happens. Articles were in the paper. We had several meetings about
this. It's not been a secret and although I feel for your issues, this is something that
people should, you know you, I feel like you had plenty of opportunity to be informed.
Judy Schmieg: We can't. We didn't know.
Councilman Lundquist: Sure, it was in the paper. There was several times and as the
mayor stated, you know maybe we have some room for improvement but I would suggest
that for all of our residents, you know it's also your responsibility to keep yourself
informed to a certain degree on what's going on.
Judy Schmieg: I think I do. Justin, have I been up to talk to you? Have I kept informed
then with what you did with the bowling alley?
Justin Miller: Yes, you did.
10
City Council Meeting 10tober 11, 2004 •
Judy Schmieg: Okay. And have I called Sharmeen? I have.
Mayor Furlong: And I think ma'am, and why, it sounds like you're very informed. The
bowling alley's probably a good example here in terms of the proposals that came to the
EDA and the... ultimately deciding which property, which developer we would sell to and
then working with that developer to get it done. The process for the bowling alley was
the exact same process used for this property.
Judy Schmieg: And that was very poor because people came in with good proposals with
Walgreen's and everything, and like you said, if you got informed you could you know
like call Justin and find out what was going on. But at the end, the council, the EDA, the
HDA, whatever you want to call it, they approved it back to the Bloomberg for the
fifteenth time and a million dollars which is what we paid and sat empty because the wall
was connected and the property was small. It was not a good process for people to say,
do you want a community center in town? Do you want a Walgreen's? Do you want a
swimming pool? The people did not have a say about that. I watched everything that
went on with that. And that didn't work, so let's not even go to the bowling alley...
Mayor Furlong: No, but the reason I go to the bowling alley is because the process was
the same. Now if you disagree with the outcome.
Judy Schmieg: That's different.
Mayor Furlong: That is different.
Judy Schmieg: There was no meeting ... for that bowling alley.
Mayor Furlong: Well I think there were.
Judy Schmieg: There was nothing... Justin you said in August they were going to close
in August so hurry up between May and August and do it. Then it didn't close for a year
and so.
Mayor Furlong: Ma'am, on this particular issue, I understand that and we don't want to
go back and re -live everything with the bowling alley, but I use that as an example of the
process was the same and if people could get informed and influenced members of the
City Council and the EDA between those meetings, that's the time to do it. You ask are
people allowed to speak at the EDA. I will tell you right now at EDA meetings people
can speak.
Judy Schmieg: Okay, then you're saying the forum for future stuff is go to, whenever
you see it in the paper that says EDA meeting, then go there and voice your opinion? But
the EDA was decided to sign the purchase agreement or whatever already when you got
to that meeting, they were ready to sign it. Is there someplace back farther? No.
Because it had to be there when they signed the purchase at the EDA meetings.
11
City Council Meeting qktober 11, 2004 •
Justin Miller: What I'm saying was in April there was a meeting where the council, we
provided a concept to the EDA. That concept had a Dunn Brothers coffee shop and a
Goddard Learning Center. That was a concept. At that meeting the EDA told staff to
pursue further options on that property. They did not sign a purchase agreement. They
did not do anything with that property at that time. After that time there was coverage in
the media so people should have known that there was a chance there could be
development on this site. Between April and August there was plenty of opportunity for
people to contact staff. For people to contact their council and say that they did not want
this to happen. As far as I know, I did not receive any.
Judy Schmieg: When was the purchase agreement signed?
Justin Miller: That was in August.
Mayor Furlong: After the August meeting. Okay, thank you ma'am.
Judy Schmieg: I'll let somebody, if anybody else wants to talk. You haven't answered
my question on that. What I can do to stop it because the attorney is saying that it's.
Councilman Ayotte: Answer her. There's nothing you can do at this point.
Judy Schmieg: Yes there is.
Councilman Ayotte: No, there's a purchase agreement that's signed.
Judy Schmieg: ... contingencies, right? If they do not comply with the contingencies,
then the purchase falls through. Correct? If they do not comply with the contingencies,
then the purchase falls through. Then do we have a chance before you sign again or give
them another, what is it, year and a half to get the purchase agreement signed? Do we
have a chance then? If they don't comply. And maybe they've turned to the developer,
you can tell us.
Mayor Furlong: Well I think I've told you. I don't have an answer to that question.
Well, I like to answer everybody to their satisfaction but I don't have an answer to that
question.
Judy Schmieg: Give me any kind of an answer. Give me at least some hope. You know
I'd settle for...
Councilman Lundquist: Make an offer to the Goddard School to buy it for more than
they have and they might consider selling it to you.
Mayor Furlong: Alright, let's move on if we can.
12
City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Judy Schmieg: One other thing. Can we ask the city to buy it back? We're citizens.
Even if you don't think it's a good idea and the citizens did, it's our money. Could we
buy it back from Goddard?
Mayor Furlong: Ma'am, okay. I'd like to keep the meeting moving. Thank you.
Dick Mingo: Good evening. My name is Dick Mingo. I live at 7601 Great Plains
Boulevard. About 3 short blocks just north of your site that we're talking about here and
I'm the gentleman that mailed the e-mail to you folks. I did receive an answer from Mr.
Lundquist and Mr. Ayotte. I tried to get back to you about 3 times but I kept getting your
answering machine and that's as far as I got, but anyhow. I've lived here for 47 years
and I started playing baseball about 4 years prior to that in this town because I knew I
was being drafted and come over and played for the old Chanhassen Red Birds because I
was a baseball nut and I still am. And I just want to point out that I worked for the
Minnesota Twins and have for 15 years and travel all over the upper Midwest putting on
baseball clinics and as a result I've covered hundreds of thousands of miles driving
through small communities of Minnesota and some of the things that interest me when I
pass through a lot of these little town, the little scenic churches they have and some of the
little scenic parks they've got in their little communities. I just think that you've got a
gem sitting over here. You've got a church that has been registered as a National
Historic site. My brother-in-law happened to be the instrumental fellow to have that
done, who by the way is a past city attorney for the City of Eden Prairie. In fact his law
firm still has that job. And I just can't believe that we want to cover that up. Now I get
the answer well, you can still see the steeple. Come on. Leave that thing the way it sits.
It's the only green space left in old town Chanhassen. It's a small area. I can't believe
the fact that we want to put a building on that thing. You're going to be right up against
the sidewalks. The parking is going to be very, very limited, and you say there's plenty
of parking spaces but they're going to be dropping the kids off in the morning and
according to Goddard School people here at the meeting last Monday, the people must
bring their kids into the building and then you must take them out. That means that
you're going to have to stop and come in and get the kids. Take them back or whatever.
In the meantime be driving around that circle and back on the street. I live on Great
Plains Boulevard and I know that the school that we have there, the private school, if
you've gone by there, my gosh the traffic there is unbelievable at times. And that's fine,
but we don't need more traffic there. And then I also hear this deal about a drive thru
coffee shop over in that area. You've got to be goofier than my cousin Hugo to even
think about that but that's my belief. So I just think this is a great site. It's kind of the
gateway to Chanhassen. People could come into town and see that. You've got the
Dinner Theater right across the street, which by the way also has a lot of traffic at times
and they have matinees there. So those things should have been taken into consideration.
Now I'll ask our attorney, you say there are contingencies. I can't believe you don't have
a contingency in there that with the approval of the City Council and everything else
that's involved. Isn't there a contingency for that? And that would stop the project. She
was asking, how do you stop it? Right there you've got a stop I would think, and I can't
believe you don't have a contingency in all of those little papers you sign.
13
City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Judy Schmieg: If that's true, answer him.
Dick Mingo: The other thing, that property was condemned. Those were businesses. I
get a kick out of you saying you still wanted to add a little life to that end of town. Hell,
when Pauly's bar was there, it was the life of the damn community and county. Wayzata
was dry. Excelsior was dry. Deephaven was dry. Everybody around came into this
town. Even people from Hopkins where they had liquor. It was a great area, but that's
gone. And I just, I can't believe that we're going to allow condemn property. Eliminate
a business that had been there since 1934. It's still the only business, liquor store that
started when prohibition ended. Russ Pauly who took it over, my nephew, wanted to get
into the bowling alley and we let some yo-yo over there go for a couple years without
paying his liquor bills. Not paying his taxes. And we kind of bumped Russ out of town.
Hell, he's married and got 3 young kids. He had to go to Chaska and he's got a very
flourishing business down there. He should have been here. In the bowling alley.
Paying taxes. Instead we fiddled around and blew that but again that's another story. So
I just think that we're being very, very foolish here and we're not looking at what we
have here. We've got a nice gem sitting there. And I guess I can't add too much more.
The lady ahead of me pretty well was on your case real well but the other thing about the
building, the play areas. There's going to be a play area on the east and the west. The
one that's on the east side's going to be sitting right on the steps of the church and the old
city hall. Boy, isn't that scenic beauty? Isn't that, doesn't that give us an aesthetic value?
Playground on this side. We're going to come down the main drag where we could be
looking at that nice scenic site and there sites another playground. And by the way, those
playgrounds must be the size of a postage stamp. I was a school teacher and a coach for
30 years and I can't believe you're to, I know they're going to be little peanuts in there
but boy they'd better be real small because those sure are small areas. So you guys might
have done your homework, and by the way, I guess I'm another yo-yo. I did not see
anything in the paper about this but I guess I just don't read everything right down to the
last paragraph in the paper so I too have to say that I was unaware of this until 2 weeks
ago when I found about a lot of this being, or taking place. I guess that's my comments.
Thank you for your attention.
Mayor Furlong: Great. Thank you sir.
Councilman Ayotte: Thank you sir.
Tom Lentz: My name is Tom Lentz. I live at 404 Santa Fe Circle since 1969. I too am
against the development of this green area. I have some copies here of some stuff I want
to share with the council members.
Councilman Ayotte: Sir, I'm sorry. I didn't hear your name. Could you say it again?
Tom Lentz: Tom Lentz, L -e -n -t -z.
Councilman Ayotte: Thank you.
14
City Council Meeting October 11, 2004 •
Tom Lentz: I pretty much agree with everything that's been said so far. Just listening to
it I think something that is obviously of historic significance like this. It doesn't appear
to me that the government or the council or you folks did anything extra to make sure that
the public would be behind this. This isn't like some other development. It's obviously,
it's in a historic significant area. With this information I have handed out, it pretty much
even talks about it back when it was done in '89 and '87. I pulled these out of the Carver
County Herald. One says, revitalization plans also include the construction of the old
town square where the 191s century church and the first city hall, the white clapboard
structure stands. The brick plaza will serve as a meeting place and unified for the old
town structures. Then there's another article about children discover pioneer life at Chan
Heritage Park. So if anything it's obvious to me that somehow the system failed. We're
at a point now where you're saying you don't have any choice but to approve this
development. It's obviously it shouldn't have happened. I don't know, it doesn't appear
to me that Chanhassen has a heritage or preservation commission that should be
reviewing things like this. Obviously I don't know if the other commissions take that
role, the Planning Commission or who but from a heritage point of view, has anybody
looked at anything like this before you make a decision? And is there any obligation to
do that? I know at the federal level, the federal government cannot relinquish any land
until a complete study is done about any type of a significant heritage or ecological type
significance the land may have before they can release it. So that's a question. Was
anything like that done?
Councilman Ayotte: You asking a question sir?
Tom Lentz: Yes. The commissioners, any of the other committees or commissions in
town have the responsibility of looking at the.
Todd Gerhardt: There's no requirement as a part of the site plan of this. It's a vacant lot.
Tom Lentz: I would highly recommend that the village consider putting that in on
sensitive land like this.
Councilman Ayotte: There is sir, and I did ask, I want you to know that I did ask the
question of staff. Inquired largely due to Mr. Mingo, who I believe probably played short
stop incidentally. Is that a good guess? Did you? No? I could have swore. But that the
State Historical Preservation officer usually cuts on these sorts of things and I asked
specifically if this piece of property was registered with the SHPO and the response that I
got, staff obviously does it's research in this area, was no. It was not a part of a historical
registration. This particular piece of property.
Tom Lentz: Have we had a historical society, preservation society, they would have
probably recommended that it be, into that, and would work with SHPO and made it
happen.
Councilman Ayotte: I tend to agree with you.
15
City Council Meeting otober 11, 2004 •
Tom Lentz: Also I included a picture, a couple of snapshots that I shot and the bottom
picture is what we see today when we come down West 78i' Street. We're not going to
see that anymore once that building's there. That's going to be gone. And the loss of the
aesthetic value is significant. It's devastating. We have something here that is just very,
very special and we're at a point where it's just not going to exist anymore. Now I'm one
of the probably 160 people on that petition that did not know this was going ahead until I
seen the sign. But I'm only in Chanhassen about half time during the summer and I came
home one time and I seen that sign and I said what's going on? And so I can say that also
the energy was to get names on that petition, you know if this was an election, the guy
would have won by 99 percent. There was nobody that was approached, except I think
one person that didn't want to sign the petition. Everybody, and it wasn't oh, okay I'll
sign it for you. Everybody had high energy for it so it's obvious that there's a whole
bunch of the citizens that don't want this to happen and weren't really aware that it was
going to happen. And again I think this is different than any other development that's
going on in the city because of the historic significance and also the precedent that was
set. With all the articles we read through the years, I always assumed that this was a
park. I didn't know that this land was going to be sold and marketed so.
Mayor Furlong: I guess one point of clarification, if I may, and the information you read
out of this articles speaks of the old town square and the brick plaza to serve as a meeting
place. Just for clarification, the site plan that we're going to look at later this evening
does not change at all the brick plaza.
Kate Aanenson: That's connect.
Mayor Furlong: The square in front of the old village hall and in front of the church.
Okay. It's the grass area where the, there were buildings before? That's where the
restaurant.
Todd Gerhardt: No, that was a road.
Mayor Furlong: The road went through.
Todd Gerhardt: 101 went up through there and then right where the westerly landscaped
plaza or planter bed is was the wall of Pauly's Bottle Shoppe. And then as you worked
your way west there was the Pryzmus office, apartment building and then the Pony
Express was on the comer. And just for note, we did not condemn those 3 businesses.
They were under threat of condemnation but it ended up as a purchase agreement with
each of the 3 entities so we did not go through the full condemnation process. So I just
want to make sure everybody understood that.
Tom Lentz: That's just a formality. I mean, if Russ wouldn't have sold, you would have
condemned him.
Todd Gerhardt: It was under threat, correct.
16
City Council Meeting 10tober 11, 2004 •
Tom Lentz: Yeah, I read an article. I didn't copy that. I did read an article that talked
about the fact and he was, it was an article about him closing the business and selling out
because his property was condemned according to the article.
Todd Gerhardt: Yep, and we tried relocating Russ in two different locations in town.
Over in the Kenny's building, which was not successful and also the bowling alley,
which he could not enter into a successful lease with the current owner of that building.
Tom Lentz: And another problem with, if I could add is I spoke with Clark Horn who sat
on the council at that particular time and asked him his recollections. And he said that
the council contemplated a number of things to do with that land. One was to make it a
park, so that was talked about. They also talked about later on making it a library or
senior center. His feeling is that they decided not to make it a park because the city
square, the area, they said we had a whole block there that was going to be enough land.
Mayor Furlong: Which is the new City Center Park, is that?
Tom Lentz: Yeah, but now that they put the library there, he says it's more appropriate
that that should have been left a park.
Todd Gerhardt: And we had those discussions mayor and the library footprint covers
almost the same square footage that the parking lot and the old bank building sat on. So
if you take the brick pavers and the green out there today, you have as much green space
as you had when the old bank was there and the two empty lots to the west.
Councilman Ayotte: Could I ask a question?
Mayor Furlong: Certainly.
Councilman Ayotte: On the picture that Mr. Lentz presented, has this green space always
been green space?
Todd Gerhardt: No. There were 3 buildings there. The Pony, Pauly...
Mayor Furlong: I guess that was my question.
Councilman Ayotte: This, I just want to, from a reference point, this green space that's
pictured here had buildings on it before.
Todd Gerhardt: That's correct. Two bars and a.
Mayor Furlong: I thought that was my question.
Councilman Ayotte: I didn't understand.
Mayor Furlong: No, I'm glad you clarified that because I heard something different.
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City Council Meeting *toter 11, 2004 •
Tom Lentz: You know there's another thing I'm going to add to it. You know we
basically moved Great Plains Boulevard. It went in front of the church. And that gave us
access and view of the church but we moved it to the west. Now we're going to put a
building up basically to block the front, the visual front of the church from any street.
It's not unlike what happened with the new gym over at the old St. Hubert's school which
blocked the views of those homes of downtown. There used to be a street there. Got
vacated. They put the gym up and I think there's got to be some consideration taken. I
mean architecturally in planning again a historical area, or whatever you're doing there. I
mean there's some visual aspects and aesthetic values of these buildings and stuff and my
view is that, and not being taken into consideration and being ignored and we're going to
lose some value here. Some aesthetic value here that we'll never, ever recover. And as
time goes on, it's going to look back at the decisions going to be looked back at and say,
boy that was really dumb. Just like we look back at ... that tears down some of their own
structures. Because a lot of those structures that were in Chanhassen when I came here,
that would I think, there's a lot of people that wish the historic value was still there. As
Chaska's been fortunate enough to keep some of their old buildings and, but Chanhassen,
we haven't had that foresight so.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you sir.
Councilman Ayotte: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: We're still in visitor presentations. We've been talking about this for, I
didn't look when we started but probably 45-50 minutes so, if there's any new
information on this topic I would certainly invite somebody to come forward but from a
discretion standpoint, if it's simply a repeat or continuing to emphasize, I'd ask that we
try to delay that.
Ron Roeser: I don't know if I have anything new for you.
Mayor Furlong: If you could state your name and address sir.
Ron Roeser: But I'm sure that, I'm Ron Roeser. I live at 222 Chan View.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Ron Roeser: I'm sure all of you own this and have read it and I'm just here to plead the
case that you keep that property open. This book contains the history of a church were
most of the citizens of the little village of Chanhassen were baptized, married and buried.
It's a church whose bells rang out to celebrate Christmas and other holidays and the
ending of two world wars. There's a history in here of the goings on of the small village
down to the very cost of the building of it. It's a village hall where my grandfather, my
father and I all served on the council at one time. It is the village hall in which the only
protestant in town served as the mayor for many years. It is the village hall were the first
summer recreation program originated. $500 ran the whole program. It is the village hall
IU
City Council Meeting 14tober 11, 2004 •
where people like Gene Coulter, of Coulter Boulevard and the Lyman Brothers, Lyman
Boulevard, got together and decided to merge with the township so that we wouldn't all
become Chaska. Then we have the depot from which many people commuted back and
forth from the city. Mail and farm products were delivered and taken there. The area we
are concerned with was the heart and the beginning of what we now know as the city of
Chanhassen. The business district at that time consisted of Pauly's grocery, Pauly's bar,
the post office, the State Bank of Chanhassen and Joe's Place. It was Joe Meuwissen's
place where you could get an ice cream cone or a shot of whiskey. Everyone was
welcomed. You could even get a haircut there. The State Bank of Chanhassen, after
Saturday you won't believe this but the State Bank of Chanhassen was owned by Elmer
Kiln, a friend of Franklin Roosevelt and Hubert Humphrey. Elmer was one of the
founders of Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party. If you look across the street you
see the Chanhassen Dinner Theater. The Dinner Theater signaled the beginning of what
today is modem Chanhassen. Once Herb Bloomberg came to town, growth was
inevitable. And that's not a bad thing. But just remember that it all started right there in
that little square of land. Those of us here, and we have signed the petition, ask your
reconsider and not put a building on this lot. A city cannot have too much open space
and this is an open space we should keep and develop in some other way. Thank you.
Jack Atkins: I'm sorry, just a few minutes. Jack Atkins. I live at 220 West 78th Street.
A couple blocks east of this site. I'm curious first of all, did I get a letter? Am I within
500 feet? While she's checking on that, I guess the first thing I'd say, to prevent this
from happening in the future is any commercial development, you should probably
extend that to at least 2,500 feet. I think you can tell from the comments made that
there's a few hundred of old Chanhassen people here that are feeling that they got bowled
over with development over the past 20 years. You're getting some of those expressions,
a feeling about that property now. That was my father-in-law that just spoke. He was
baptized at that church and my wife was baptized at that church. I guess the issue for me,
living that close to that property, and I don't think that I did get a letter.
Kate Aanenson: No...
Jack Atkins: I did not? I heard about a Dunn Brothers and a daycare center and I thought
oh, how quaint that would be. I didn't realize that the building was going to have a roof
surface area that's larger than my entire lot. I think that the Goddard School's a very nice
school and it's a good concept. I think it belongs in Chanhassen. I think that they're
trying to put a square peg into a round hole in that facility. That they're going to put a
massive building with a huge roof and a, it's going to be entirely fenced in. I realize you
guys can't do anything about it. I would urge Goddard School to consider some more
appropriate lot in Chanhassen. Maybe on the frontage road along Highway 5 would be a
lot easier access for them and I would hope for Judy Schmieg as a last ditch effort here,
that they would consider doing that and if they did consider doing that, that the council
would allow them to get out of their purchase agreement. That's all I had to say, thank
you.
19
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 0
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. We're still on visitor presentations. This is again an
opportunity for others to come forward to discuss other issues. Ma'am, if I may ask.
Judy Schmieg: I'm waiting...
Mayor Furlong: Okay, but we did already spend a lot of time with you so we'd rather not
have people speaking 2 and 3 times. Okay, thank you.
Judy Schmieg: That's very welcoming, which happens to us all the time. Why can't you
listen to us?
Mayor Furlong: Ma'am, all I was saying is, we spent a lot of time.
Judy Schmieg: ... ourselves, if you feel the same way, we don't want anything repeated
and don't come up again, why can't you listen to us? This is pretty important to us.
Councilman Ayotte: Ma'am, if you think it's important why don't you give us a chance
to talk. Why don't you have a seat and let's see how we can resolve some of these issues
instead of dropping a bomb and leaving. Why don't you have a seat so we can finish up.
Mayor Furlong: Just so there's clarification here. Ma'am please. We're still in visitor
presentations so this is a point in the council meeting when we listen. I know there's
been a lot of listening going on, okay. We are going to, and the reason you're talking
now, we are going to address this issue on our agenda. We've got another thing
inbetween here that we're going to take up and then we're going to address this as part of
our site plan approval. So that's why.
Judy Schmieg: But I don't know where to address you. You people think we know.
Nobody does. I thought it was visitor presentation. Then I have to keep my mouth shut.
And the question I'm still have, Mr. Mingo asked the attorney if the council doesn't
approve this, is that one of the contingencies and I did not hear the attorney answer it.
And I just want to be sure that's answered before you start. It's frustrating. Okay, I'll go
sit down.
Mayor Furlong: I want to make sure we have an opportunity to.
Tom Lentz: I have one, sorry I have one question based on what I heard. I'm not sure
how the city government works but if you had made a decision that notices were going to
go out within residents within 500 feet, for public comment, and you in fact did not do
that, or get them out to those people, does the process start over again? At the federal
level I know it does. In other words if you made, the council made a decision that the
public would be noticed by within 500 feet and you didn't do that, and now you have to
get those notices out and start the process over again.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is that our practice or not? The 500 feet, and I think.
PLO]
City Council Meeting -0tober 11, 2004 is
Kate Aanenson: I don't think he's within 500 feet though...
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So part of what we have in our packet I believe is a statement, an
affidavit from our city clerk with regard to the public notice. Is that correct Ms.
Aanenson?
Kate Aanenson: I'm sorry.
Mayor Furlong: Doesn't Ms. Engelhardt usually include a distribution?
Kate Aanenson: It's inside. It's in your packet.
Mayor Furlong: So the affidavit of the mailing notice.
Kate Aanenson: Attached.
Mayor Furlong: And I, ladies and gentlemen, I'm trying to be as accommodating as I
can.
Dick Mingo: Just one quick, 500 feet away from that area, I'm an old football coach too.
That's only 165 yards. Hell, there's only a couple houses within the 165 yards of it. The
rest are all businesses.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Okay. Is there any other items with regard to visitor
presentations? Otherwise I'll close visitor presentations. Hearing none we'll close
visitor presentations and move on with our agenda. Thank you. I'd like to invite forward
now, we have both Chief Geske and Sergeant Olson. They requested to come before the
council this evening and give us an update on the President's visit this last Saturday from
a security and fire safety standpoint so gentlemen. One or both. Whichever you prefer.
Sgt. Jim Olson: Hello. It was an honor for me over the weekend and last week to be
involved in the planning for the Presidential visit. The cooperative effort between city,
county, state and federal agencies were incredible, and that certainly helped with the way
that thing came, or the way it came off and as smooth as it did. There were over 170 law
enforcement officers from 21 agencies that were involved in this, and that doesn't include
the federal officers that were there. During the event itself we had 21 calls for service in
the city from practically 9:00 in the morning until 5:00 in the afternoon. 10 of those were
related to the event. Only one of those was an assault of a person wearing a Kerry t -shirt
and there were 2 citations that were issued for that event. That was after everything was
over and everybody was walking away. Inside of the event itself there were 7 medicals.
4 missing children and there were no arrests at all. It was an incredible event to be
involved in, and it went very well from law enforcement standpoint. I have to give praise
to the Chanhassen Fire Department with the way that they handled everything, and also
city staff with the planning that was involved with setting that up so. Any questions for
Myself regarding that event at all?
21
City Council Meeting Otober 11, 2004
it so it's a once in a lifetime thing for me so I guess I'll remember that and I'll get a
picture but thanks.
Mayor Furlong: Great. Congratulations. Thank you. Let's move on now with our
agenda.
REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A
THE GODDARD SCHOOL, FRED RIESE.
Public Present:
Name Address
Judy Schmieg
Joanne Meuwissen
Rick Engelhardt
Mel Kurvers
Julia Prinz
Thomas Lentz
Curt Robinson
Gladys Hanna
Ron Roeser
Franklin J. Kurvers
Rosemary & Dick Mingo
Jack Atkins
Brandy Geiger
Fred & Valaire Riese
David Helmer
200 West 77"' Street
201 West 77'h Street
403 Santa Fe Trail
7240 Kurvers Point Road
408 Santa Fe Circle
404 Santa Fe Circle
202 West 77'h Street
1321 Lake Drive West
222 Chan View
7220 Kurvers Point Road
7601 Great Plains Boulevard
220 West 78`h Street
1016 W. 9th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA
9154 Sunnyvale Drive
7201 York Avenue So #1306, Edina
Kate Aanenson: Thank you. Location as you indicated is West 78`h and Great Plains,
just on the other side of old village hall.
Councilman Ayotte: Kate I'm sorry, you're going to have to talk a little louder.
Kate Aanenson: Old village hall. Next to old village hall and old St. Hubert's church.
This is a highly sensitive area. Discussion tonight so I just want to reframe a couple of
things as we kind of move through this before I go into the staff report. This is where the
village hall sits. That was that pocket kind of a park area that Todd was alluding to
earlier that was discussed in some of the reports where the brick pavers are and the like. ]
did want to talk a little bit about historic district because that came up. I believe the year
approximately 2000 Sharmeen Al-Jaff and Cindy Kirchoff on our staff undertook a
process of working through some historic designs for this part of town. As planners we
always try to be leaders in looking at some of those areas that we think we need to go,
just like we were bringing back to you. Some multi family design standards as we see
25
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
that as an issue as we're moving forward. They spent a lot of time photographing the
buildings in town and were moving forward to come up with some design standards
regarding character in this neighborhood. As we moved along, there a majority of people
that asked that we not proceed with that and it was dropped. Also in the background,
when we moved Highway 5 as a part of the environmental assessment document for that,
there was the old historic depot and the city manager and myself at that time met with the
State Historical Preservation because we thought this would be maybe a possible place to
put that and their recommendation is that if it's a historical building, it should be sited
correctly. The village hall is not cited correctly because it's sitting at an angle and not in
the right spot so for historical significance it does not qualify. We did locate the depot
according to SHPO, the State Historical Preservation standards so it does qualify because
it's next to the railroad tracks and we worked very hard with the Bloomberg companies
and the Dinner Theater to work to get that. So we are very sensitive to that issue. It took
a lot of work to get it located there and it is correct and historic in that location so.
Councilman Ayotte: Can I ask questions or should we wait?
Mayor Furlong: Do you have a preference?
Kate Aanenson: That's fine if you want to ask, while I'm on that.
Councilman Ayotte: The orientation to the building that takes it out of the parameters of
being a historical site, why was it moved?
Kate Aanenson: The village, I can't comment on that location of that.
Councilman Ayotte: What was the error that caused that?
Mayor Furlong: If we can, let's let staff try it first.
Councilman Ayotte: Give it a shot because you've got a lot of help here if you can't get
it right.
Todd Gerhardt: Unfortunately I lived through that event and the old village hall was
located behind the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus building. There was no uniform parking for any
of those 3 buildings. Most of the parking was on street or behind the buildings in a dirt
parking lot. As a part of the downtown redevelopment we tried to create a uniformed
parking theme throughout the downtown. Old village hall sat basically where the
garbage dumpster sits right today in that parking lot. So as a part of the redevelopment
they took old village hall off it's original foundation and placed it where it is today, and
there was a lot of debate. You may remember this, when they put it at an angle. We
went through a lot of meetings. People upset that they set it at an angle and BRW were
the engineers at that time and nobody knew, it was kind of going to be at this angle but it
stayed there and that's how we got it today. People would have preferred to see it
parallel with the park, but that's how old village hall got to where it is today. Any
disagreement?
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City Council Meeting October 11, 2004 •
Kate Aanenson: Anyways, back on point on the historic, because I just want to touch on
it briefly because I think all these treads are going to kind of weave together. In meeting
with the State Historic Preservation Office, their concern, and I'll use the exact term that
they told the city manager and myself is they don't like to see a zero effect. They want
things correctly placed as they were. Not that you put it in, crunch it all into one area and
call it a historic zone but they want things placed correctly if they're historically
significant. So the historically significant building certainly is the church in this area and
as a staff, one of the things that we've always worked at as far as planning this area that
we believe calls out, that you're in a different area because that's what we try to look at,
is that we place buildings closer to the sidewalk. Medical Arts building. St. Hubert's
when the addition, we asked them to come closer to the street because you enter and you
have that sense of you're in a different type of area. The old town. Again, that different
feel so that's always been kind of the underlying, and again the central business district,
what this is zoned, has a zero setback from the front line and that's what we've included
along this corridor. Again, to give a different feel. A sense of arrival as you come in
from that direction. So I just wanted to frame that up. Again, this property is zoned
central business district. It is guided for commercial and that's how we've always looked
at it. In looking at developments on this property. All of our other parks are zoned parks
open space and are also guided for parks and open space so they have a different zoning
or land use designation. So that's how it's being looked at today when the property
comes in. As the city manager did mention, there has been numerous applications over
the time as the city's looked at, even when this proposal came in there was two and staff
worked hard to say you know, just two aren't going to work on this site and dropped
down to one to really make it fit into this so the original proposal that did come before the
EDA did have two and it was too intense on the site. Certainly we agree that fast food
didn't work so how we got to this type of a use is we felt, as the city manager indicated,
the fact that it's 5 days a week. It's quiet on the weekends. It works with the existing
church that's using the old St. Hubert's. There's shared parking so we thought it was a
good compromise as far as the fact that it's all brick and they've worked hard on that so
that's how we came down to, from the planning side to look at the recommendation. So
with that I'd like to spend a little bit of time going through the site plan itself. Just a little
bit more background. The Planning Commission did review this. Again, their job is to
decide whether or not it meets requirements of the ordinance so based on their
jurisdictional review of this, they did recommend approval of the site plan based on the
fact that the site plan met the requirements of the zoning district. So with that, I'll pass it
around in just a minute but it is an all brick building with aluminum. It called off the
shingle detail, the high quality. Again we were concerned about the materials in the area
so it's a very high quality building. The one concern, as was mentioned was the brick.
The orientation of the building, we did spend a lot of time working with the Riese's. Just
for your background too, we met the Riese's. The staff worked and were they surprised
that we put a park and ride in their back yard so they've seen development on both sides.
When we met with that neighborhood and worked through a 3-4 month process to get the
zoning in place for a park and ride with some multi family housing so they've
experienced development in their back yard and putting in someone else's. Kind of
seeing both sides of the spectrum here. In looking at the orientation of the building we
27
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
looked at different, how the building is sit regarding the fact that they do need playground
areas. We also were concerned that we wanted a front door presence. That we didn't
have a back door facing the street because again we wanted the appearance, just like we
asked Chapel Hill to put windows, that we have that street frontage like you'd see in a
traditional downtown. While it's nice to have some of those thing, I grew up in
Excelsior. I can comment on the changes and the struggles that they have in the core
downtown trying to keep businesses competing with Chanhassen. We want to have that
presence on a street so they worked hard to get the orientation. While there's not a front
door, they do have a back door that's the operable one but a full front so again giving that
street presence. The building is recessed in order to make the grades, the parking lot does
slope away so the building is recessed 4 feet as you get towards that street. There is a
retaining wall there. We also worked to get, what we believe is a highly decorative and
those plans are in your packet. Wall, fence, wrought iron with brick pilasters that match
the building itself. Again highly decorative which we think is higher quality again. And
again the playground structure is mostly grass but there is a padded area for the
playground itself. On either side of the building, and that meets their requirements for
the State for the playground area. The roof was one issue that we struggled with. This
would be the view looking towards the church. Again you can see that on the model. We
took these pictures of us using the model so that's where they came from. It wasn't
submitted by the applicant. That was just the staff itself trying to get understanding of
the orientation of the building itself. One of the things that we were concerned with is,
when you have a lot of the HVAC, they like to keep that in their building too so the roof
itself, the pitch was lowered but all the HVAC, the heating ventilating equipment, is all
put into the roof itself. Again, keeping some of that stuff off, giving a more aesthetic
look to the outside. One of the issues that came up with this neighboring property Remax
is the shared parking lot. Was that they wanted to see, so they had a better movement
through there. Through the parking lot is that this is an existing curb line that we tried to
move that curb line. I think that seems amenable to both parties to provide them with
access because they also use that driveway. I think with that.
Councilman Ayotte: Kate, could you go back to that previous picture where you show
the relationship of, zero in on that. Okay, thanks.
Kate Aanenson: Again, that's based off the model. That wasn't, that was just taken right
from our scale, and we did ask them to provide that. We wanted that for our edification.
Understand that too, the setbacks and the height. So with that, unless there's any
questions. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions in the staff report and I
would be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Questions for staff. Councilman Labatt.
Councilman Labatt: Kate. You had talked about, about this property is zoned and guided
central business district, commercial and parks are zoned parks open space accordingly.
This purchase, or this property was purchased in the early 90's, right? If I remember
right.
P"
City Council Meeting October 11, 2004 •
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Labatt: When was it given the guiding of CBD?
Kate Aanenson: It's been that way.
Councilman Labatt: It's never been zoned parks.
Kate Aanenson: Not since I've been here. I've been here 12 years, it has not. Correct.
Councilman Labatt: It's never been zoned parks open space.
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Councilman Labatt: And we've talked about the other potential purchases and the stuff.
I remember sitting through a meeting, and I've been here 7 years and I've never, you
know nobody's ever come up here and said don't sell that property. The church came
into us and looked to expand that property too at one did. Expand that church.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Councilman Labatt: And they came in with a big plan, and I don't recall hearing
anybody come and say don't do it then. You know, they had actually taken the old city
hall building and moved it to the west end of the property.
Todd Gerhardt: It never went through site plan approval.
Councilman Labatt: No, but they came with, so there's been all kinds of things that have
come before us. But I just wanted to share that one other one that looked to expand.
That was the only question I had. Just on the zoning I think right now.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other questions.
Councilman Ayotte: What was the population? How many people got letters on this
thing?
Kate Aanenson: It's written in the report.
Councilman Ayotte: I know it's in the packet but just, I want you to state how many
people got letters. You should know this by memory.
Mayor Furlong: No she shouldn't.
Kate Aanenson: 21.
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City Council Meeting -*toter 11, 2004 •
Councilman Ayotte: 21, okay. And with respect to this old village hall, which is kitty
whompus. What kind of latitude do we have, and I'll just be overtly silly about it. Could
we move it again?
Kate Aanenson: I would think so, but if you're going to move it again I believe the state
recommends if you're going to move it, that you move it so that it's correct in it's
original location to qualify for historic significance. Certainly...
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, you could move it again and what are the parameters for
moving it again. Say it again so I can hear you.
Kate Aanenson: Well if you want to get historic significance, then you need to move it
back to where it's original location would be. To quality for...
Councilman Ayotte: So what you're saying is no matter where we would move it, it
would not have a historical significance unless we could move it back to where it was.
Kate Aanenson: That's my understanding of the law.
Councilman Ayotte: Is that correct?
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, and use materials.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, materials that would be associated with the era.
Todd Gerhardt: Yeah, it was on a rock foundation.
Councilman Ayotte: A rock foundation, okay. And where would it have to go if we had
to move it back again?
Todd Gerhardt: Can you point to the middle of the site plan? Yep.
Kate Aanenson: Approximately in this area.
Councilman Ayotte: And that's not doable is it?
Kate Aanenson: Sure. Not with the proposal in front of you.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. I'm asking these questions to also educate a bit if you don't
mind. Now the Environmental Commission is really associated with you isn't it?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Environmental?
Councilman Ayotte: Environmental, yeah.
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City Council Meeting *etober 11, 2004 •
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Councilman Ayotte: You're welcome. And I believe it was Mr. Lentz that made the
comment that heritage preservation commission would be helpful and I tend to agree with
him on that point. I think it was Mr. Lentz that made that comment. Is it reasonable,
could the, the Environmental Commission right now does not have the charter to be
involved with the review of heritage preservation activity. Do they or do they not? I'm
not certain.
Kate Aanenson: No they do not.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Would it be a big effort to alter the commission's focus to
consider that as an added function of that commission?
Kate Aanenson: It'd be my recommendation that that really would belong to the
Planning Commission. Actually in the Met Council if you're going to do something like
that, it would, if you were going to weave in one to the existing, it really would belong, in
my opinion, probably a little more close related to the Planning Commission who is more
involved in site plan review and that's kind of their bailiwick.
Todd Gerhardt: And can you, approximately 5 years ago we had a historical review.
Kate Aanenson: We started an old town plan and that was started in approximately 2000.
I mentioned that earlier, and we spent some time on that and we were asked to cease that.
There wasn't buy in from the neighborhood at that time so. We did kind of start that
process.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, but there could be a charter for, in your view, the Planning
Commission to consider historical preservation check for activity.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. There's a lot of different ways you can go with that. Whether you
want to do an ordinance or some sort of review. There's a lot of different ways you could
set that up.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Has there been much traffic study with respect to the
Goddard activity?
Kate Aanenson: They did look, kind of looked at there, what their peak hours were.
What their peak hours were. That was our concern. Again, they did do a peak hour
study.
Councilman Ayotte: I didn't hear you.
Kate Aanenson: They gave us their data what they used for peak hours. What their main
traffic, morning and afternoon and what their time frames are.
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City Council Meeting 41tober 11, 2004 •
Councilman Ayotte: Who's reviewed that so far?
Kate Aanenson: Planning staff has. It was not a formalized traffic study.
Councilman Ayotte: It was not formalized?
Kate Aanenson: No. Just kind of what their peak hours, what their normal traffic
patterns are. How many children are in the school. What their normal pick-up, those sort
of things.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay. Thanks Tom.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman Lundquist, any questions? Just a couple for
clarification. It's 500 feet. Number of people notified has been raised. What are the
other ways that, as a city we try to notify residents and businesses of proposed
developments?
Kate Aanenson: All public hearings are also, the agenda is published. For the Planning
Commission.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Signs on the property.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Other things, I guess newspaper are some of the things that
happened here.
Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct.
Mayor Furlong: But for the fact that the city acquired this property back through it's
downtown development, when would notification typically go out. If this was a privately
held property.
Kate Aanenson: Exact same process.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So there would be no earlier notification. We're notify the same,
the way that the residents found out about this would be the same way that they'd find
out about it if it was a private transaction between two private owners or the owner
wanted to come in and develop the property.
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Following up on Councilman Ayotte's question on the traffic.
What was planning staffs review of that data and what was the results of that review in
terms of traffic on the roads on West 78`s and Great Plains?
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 0
Kate Aanenson: There was some concern voiced about the other school, Chapel Hill
that's across the street and that the hours there, they start shortly after 8:00. The drop off
on this is a little bit broader overlap. They have one start time. This one has an hour and
a half, two hour window. The morning drop off. They have some noon or 1:00 pick-up
and then evening pick-up which I think is until 6:00 p.m. So that's different than the
school let out time which is 3:00 so we should be off setting that so we didn't see that as
a problem. It's again going back to the fact that that's the 5 day as opposed to what fast
food which may be more operational and longer periods of time or something like that.
That could be an office building or housing which has traffic 24 hours a day.
Mayor Furlong: You're saying if there's a different use.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So with the current uses, staff found that the traffic pattern was at
least complimentary to or didn't.
Kate Aanenson: We thought that would be the most complimentary to the overall
neighborhood patterns.
Mayor Furlong: Didn't overlap the peak times of other uses in the area?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct.
Mayor Furlong: They were offset.
Kate Aanenson: They were offset, right. And then also worked you know for the
weekend. Again this is a shared parking lot. That worked for the weekend uses of the
other facilities, and this plan does accommodate.
Mayor Furlong: That would be the church?
Kate Aanenson: The Chamber who also uses that building. There's parking provided for
that and for the church. That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And just for clarification, in terms of the location maybe going
back to the.
Kate Aanenson: The site plan?
Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Let's go to the site plan first. Where the paver courtyard is now
the village hall.
Kate Aanenson: This area.
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City Council Meeting -4tober 11, 2004 •
Mayor Furlong: That used to be a road? That was the road.
Todd Gerhardt: 101.
Mayor Furlong: Came through there?
Todd Gerhardt: Went through the Standard station across the railroad tracks, up and then
it was a 4 way stop at that intersection at 101.
Mayor Furlong: At West 78th?
Todd Gerhardt: Yes, and then take a right onto West 78`s Street was the route for 101.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: If you look at the site location map, it shows the property for that road.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, that strip going up and down there between the two. Okay. And
the building's that were razed from this site where the grass is now, obviously they
weren't on the road with the paver stone. How tall were those buildings? Were they
single story buildings? Were they two story?
Todd Gerhardt: Pauly's was a single story. Pryzmus was a two story and the Pony
Express was a two story.
Mayor Furlong: And height wise on the two story, were they comparable to this with the
roof, if you can recall or high or lower?
Todd Gerhardt: They wouldn't be any higher.
Mayor Furlong: They wouldn't be any higher, okay. Alright. Parking with other uses if
this did not contain to be a daycare, but was an office. Do we know what the ratio of
parking would be? Would we still have adequate parking?
Kate Aanenson: Depends on the square footage.
Todd Gerhardt: It's 1 per 250.
Kate Aanenson: Again it really depends again on the use because you have a daycare
drop off. You have much more flexibility of that cross over use. An office may,
depending on the type of office, may compromise that more during the day or weekends.
Again it would depend on if there's an office that doesn't use the weekends, for example
realty office may be busier on a Saturday so it would depend on that type of office type of
use.
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City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Do we know if it was an office use, if the parking would be
adequate?
Kate Aanenson: Well you'd have to, it'd be perspective. You'd have to limit the size of
the building to meet the parking standards.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Is that a consideration that we need Mr. Attorney to look at? As
part of the site plan approval. Alternative uses of the building.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, it could potentially create a problem for someone but if they
don't meet the parking, they couldn't go to that use. So they might be frustrated in their
intentions potentially depending on how they wanted to use the building, but if they don't
satisfy the standard or unless they petition you to change the rules.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, so there's a catch there. There's a check and balance. That
would be the case.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Any change in use would have to meet the standards.
Mayor Furlong: Signage.
Kate Aanenson: There is signage on the building as shown on the plan.
Mayor Furlong: As I'm asking that question, can we include a condition or would it
make sense to include a condition that would eliminate neon as an option.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. The signage.
Mayor Furlong: Or whatever.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: You probably know where I'm going with that question so.
Kate Aanenson: Right, correct, and I think that was brought up by the neighbors too. It
is a sensitive issue when you're in proximity to residential.
Mayor Furlong: But I'm not sure, something, a sign may meet our current ordinance but
I don't think it would, if this sign goes through I don't think it would be appropriate.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. They're proposing a pylon sign on the corner but that's fine.
For the lighting for signage.
Mayor Furlong: Is that necessary? I just want to make sure they don't comeback with a
neon sign because it meets ordinance.
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City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
Kate Aanenson: No, I think that's fine.
Mayor Furlong: Is it covered? Or do we expand it?
Councilman Lundquist: Condition 19 would be no.
Mayor Furlong: I'll leave it to staff to, I think they know where I'm going with that issue
and I'll leave it to staff to know what the language, so we're not trying to do that.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it's condition 18. If you just want to, so we did put in there. I
don't know if it's clear enough, a detailed sign incorporating the method of lighting. If
you just want to qualify that by saying you know brightness, intensity or something to
that effect.
Mayor Furlong: Can we say no neon? Or neon accents or what's, I mean what I'm
thinking of here is the Original Mattress Factory sign and I'm not sure how that fits into
our current ordinance but I'd like to not have that anywhere near. So, that's a different
issue, different topic. I think those are my questions at this point. Thank you. Any other
questions for staff?
Councilman Ayotte: One other. Can there, when I took a look at the view of the steeple
and the building, it doesn't seem as complimental as it possibly could be. Is there
anything that can be done about that?
Kate Aanenson: I think the Planning Commission asked the same question because a
picture shows as, which we took off the scale model shows a white roof. The shingle
type is actually on there. It's a dark shingle. Can you hold it, my assistant. So it's a dark
shingle, so I think it's a little, I think the Planning Commission struggled a little bit too
looking at that large white roof but it will be a dark roof complimentary. Actually the
type of shingles they're trying to match in that area so that would I think change a little
bit of that intensity when you're looking at that picture.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, and in terms of the contrast with respect to the vegetation,
can we be a little bit more specific with the emplacement of landscape to do a little bit
more with it. Was there any discussion along that line and what latitude we have to do
that.
Kate Aanenson: Sure, there is some existing but if there's a recommendation, we're
always happy to meet with the landscaper on site to preserve views or guide certain
views. Those sort of things and we'd be happy to work with the applicant.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, because the other thing that can happen, instead of try to
make it integrated is to set it up so that one, so that it actually blocks.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. You can either try to screen something or enhance something
and we need to work through those. I think we can work with them on those issues. But
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City Council Meeting *toter 11, 2004 •
we know lighting's an issue for the neighbors and we want to make sure that that, and the
applicants are aware of that too, and that's another thing. This should be pretty low key
on the weekends.
Councilman Ayotte: One last question Tom I promise. For a traffic study, is that being,
in your view, could we get some dividends by having a more didactic look at traffic?
Kate Aanenson: I don't know if Paul wants to comment on that but.
Paul Oehme: Engineering did look briefly at the traffic.
Councilman Ayotte: Pull it closer to you Paul. I can't hear you.
Paul Oehme: Sorry. I have the traffic study right here and engineering did take a look at
the analysis that the Goddard School did put together. What they did where they
compared 3 other schools I believe that currently are running. They looked at the peak
hour traffic flows for those schools and basically correlated through the size and the
scope of their facility that they're proposing to date, and based upon those numbers we're
looking at one at 64 peak hourly traffic increase versus what's today, which is virtually
nothing compared to what's on Great Plains currently is what, 8,600 ADT. Average
daily traffic flow on Great Plains.
Councilman Ayotte: So the current traffic study you have satisfies you and you do not
see the need for an additional.
Paul Oehme: In my opinion there is no traffic issues.
Councilman Ayotte: Alright.
Mayor Furlong: Ms. Aanenson, with regard to the roof and sight lines. Functionally is it
possible to lower the roof?
Kate Aanenson: The applicants can speak to that but the point they made at the Planning
Commission is, in order to get the HVAC in, that roof, all their heating ventilating, sorry
I'm using an acronym, in their roof. If they went any lower they'd be compromising the
ability to get in and do the normal maintenance. They've lowered it as far as they believe
functionality.
Mayor Furlong: So then otherwise they'd have to have an open roof and then use some
shielding or something for the HVAC.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, and we'd rather see it you know, in this area, that was a goal was
to try to get enclosed roof on this.
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City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
Mayor Furlong: One last question. I was looking at my list. Maybe it's my last
question. Windows. There don't seem to be as many windows on this as we see on some
of the other projects that come forward. Is that.
Kate Aanenson: It does meet the requirements of the code as far as, there is a
requirement for openings and it does meet those requirements.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, between the doors and the windows together?
Kate Aanenson: That's correct, yep. It does meet code.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Okay. Alright, is there any part of this site plan, there's no
variance being requested.
Kate Aanenson: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: Is there any part that doesn't meet code?
Kate Aanenson: No.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright, thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time? If
not I'd certainly invite the applicant to come forward. And if there's anything you'd like
to address with the council. We do have copies of the Planning Commission minutes so
we have that information in front of us as well but good evening.
Fred Riese: Good evening. Fred Riese, 9154 Sunnyvale Drive and it's a pleasure to be
in front of you again. I'd like to say right from the beginning that from the first day that
my wife and I were presented with this site that it was to the utmost importance to us to
maintain the historic quality of the site and that's the way we have worked with the city
staff right from the beginning. We have put a lot of changes into this building
architecturally and to say the least those changes have cost us a lot of money. So if you
have any questions for me, go ahead and please ask them.
Mayor Furlong: Any questions for the applicant?
Councilman Ayotte: Would you be willing on your own, rather than the involvement of
the city, to share with maybe a resident or two all the things that you've done to
accommodate the historical preservation to the site.
Fred Riese: Sure, absolutely. If we can bring the site up here.
Councilman Ayotte: What I'm thinking is maybe it would be a.
Mayor Furlong: I'd like to hear some of that I think.
Councilman Ayotte: Okay, I'm sorry. I apologize Tom. Excuse me.
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Fred Riese: I can do it down here, that's fine. The site plan first. We have added to the
rear of the building the dormer area which basically duplicates the front of the building
except for the cupola. As you can see on the model where the cupola is and that
designates the front of the building, and then the back by 78`h Street, it's basically the
same size dormer with the white columns and everything. It just does not have the
cupola. We wanted to keep the cupola just on the front to designate the front so we
added, but on city staff's request we put that dormer on the back okay to make the back
look just like the front because that's the way we wanted it to look along 78a' Street. We
also added the dormers, the smaller dormers on either side on the west and east sides of
the building to give it an architectural look to take away from the.
Councilman Ayotte: Why don't you put that think on there so the folks can see it.
Mayor Furlong: Nann, can you hit from this camera? From an angle. I don't know, will
that work? Or alternate. I don't know if that will help or not.
Fred Riese: We have the dormer that we added here. We have the dormer that we added
here and here, both with very large white columns on both sides. The two white columns
here, here and here. The white columns in the front. On the sides, also on the sides of
the building, besides adding more windows and doors to give it to more transparency,
which by the way we took it to the max of the building without sacrificing the sheer
quality of the strength of the building. We added as many windows as we could. Before
the architect finally says you can't add anymore. We also are going to be doing arched
brick work above every single window. The reason for that is to try to match the arch
brick work to the best of our ability on the church itself to help compliment that arch
brick work on the church. The landscaping here on the corner here where we have a
bunch of utility boxes, okay. We're adding landscaping in there. Those utility boxes
which you can now see as you come down West 78th Street will be completely hidden.
You will not see them anymore. The trees that are there will all be staying, okay. We
added 4 trees to the site. All of the vegetation or landscaping that's along Great Plains
Boulevard we are going to maintain and actually dress up and make better. The center
island here, which is actually going to change quite a bit, is going to be all new
landscaping in the center island. There's going to be all new landscaping, there's going
to be 2 new trees right here. And all new landscaping in front of the building. There's
going to be a flag pole in this area right here, which will have the American flag and the
Goddard flag. And let's see, what else.
Justin Miller: Fred, maybe address the brick color.
Fred Riese: The brick color, yes. The brick color, I visited several brick companies and
finally found this brick company here that could match the brick on the church to the best
of their ability. I took, I found samples on the ground around the church and I brought
them with me and that was the best that we could do. To match the church. And the
roof, we also matched the best we could. Now keeping in mind that the roof is a cedar
shake roof which is probably 50 to 60 years old. It has green mildew on it and I decided
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
that probably the best matching roof would be that of a weathered wood, architectural
look. So it's not a white roof. It's not a black roof. It's a weathered wood look, and it's
architectural. On the roof which actually is not shown here, there are 2 smaller dormers
on either side to help break up the roof line. Here and here. I don't know if you can
actually see, not in that shot. Okay, so you understand what I'm talking about. Those
were added also to break up the roof line. Let me see, the parking lot itself, okay. The
building as you know is going to move forward and into the parking lot a bit. The
parking lot itself, the grade of the parking lot is going to be made much safer than what it
is right now. It's going to be much flatter so that people can, traffic can move in and out
of the parking lot in a safer way. Also, lighting is going to be added to the parking lot
and sidewalks. The sidewalks that are going to be added are going to be right here which
is going to connect with the city sidewalks and there's going to be a sidewalk in front of
the school, which will also attach to the sidewalk that goes besides the old city hall and
then into the, I'll call it the church park. The sidewalk here and the sidewalk here, in both
spots is going to have sidewalk lighting so at night when people are walking, hopefully
walking on a stroll in that area they'll be able to walk safely along that sidewalk. The
parking lot is going to get an additional 5 parking light lamps. Currently in that parking
lot only one lamp works. Okay, and that actually is going to be removed. It's in the
center island and we're going to add 5. So that parking lot will be illuminated and it will
be illuminated with the type of lights that shine only downward so not out, so it will not
be affecting the neighborhood. Let's see. I think that's about it.
Councilman Ayotte: That's quite a bit.
Kate Aanenson: I just wanted to add.
Mayor Furlong: I think that was helpful, thank you.
Kate Aanenson: I just wanted to add that they do have a typical plan.
Mayor Furlong: I'm sorry.
Kate Aanenson: They do have a typical plan, I believe 2 or 3 that they build as a typical
prototype.
Mayor Furlong: For Goddard Schools, they have a prototype...
Kate Aanenson: Yes... prototype but there's no other one that will look like this.
Fred Riese: Right, right. There is no one that will look like this. This will be the first
one of it's type. There's been a lot of redesign done on this building. A lot.
Kate Aanenson: Specifically to meet what we believe to fit into this area.
Fred Riese: Right. So the roof was brought down just about 4 feet from the original
height. It was originally a 6:12 roof. We brought it down to a 5:12 which took almost 4
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City Council Meeting Otober 11, 2004 •
feet off the height of the roof. To do that we had, they had to redesign the interior
drafting area for the mechanicals. So that was all done. And like I said, well the
architect told me, she said there will be no room if we take it down any further to work on
the mechanicals inside that roof.
Mayor Furlong: So that, and that's to answer my question earlier. It's as low as it can go
with it's current design, otherwise it would have to be an open roof I would suppose.
Fred Riese: That's correct.
Mayor Furlong: With shielding for the mechanicals.
Fred Riese: Right. It'd be a flat roof, which would just not be good for the architecture
of the area. We're trying to work extremely hard to blend with the architecture of the
area and to compliment it, you know the best we can. And that's our single goal here.
To honor the historic site.
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, could you have Mr. Riese talk about the parking
arrangements with St. Hubert's and the Chamber. I think that's a restriction against your
property, if I remember right.
Fred Riese: Yeah, they're going to be granted easements. The church and the Chamber
of Commerce. The Chamber of Commerce, actually those addendums to the purchase
agreement are being reviewed right now by the city attorney's office and, but in those
proposals the Chamber of Commerce is going to have 4 permanent slots in the parking
lot. Which would be right over here. These 4 slots. And then the church is going to
have the following slots. The church is going to, that's correct. Yeah, 4 and 4. If I
remember right, it's going to be 4 and 4. They're just going to have designated parking 4
and 4, and the church will have use of the parking lot on Saturdays and Sundays and also
at night during the week, Monday through Friday, and that's all included in their
easement. And Remax is also their easement is also being re -written. Actually it has
been re -written. It's also in front of the city attorney right now and that also continues to
grant them access and also I have talked with the owners of Remax and there's going to
be a gentlemen's agreement for overflow parking as they require it.
Todd Gerhardt: Mr. Mayor, the old St. Hubert's church has on street parking as their
means of their patrons to park and access the church. They do not have any ownership of
parking in the parking area as that exists today or in the future we will be allowing those
times as Mr. Riese has mentioned.
Fred Riese: Yeah, and the Chamber and the church will, their designated parking will be
indicated by signage with their hours of operations so that no one else will park during
their hours of operation. So it will be their parking. Also when, I know you addressed
the signage that was.
Mayor Furlong: You heard that?
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City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
Fred Riese: Possibly going to go on the property, yes. Right now there is nothing, no
plan for any sort of illuminated signage at all. I just want to make that point.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. We may still put it as a condition. So fore -shadowing it. Okay,
thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay, any follow-up questions for
staff? If not, why don't we bring it back to council for discussion. Councilman Labatt,
you want to start?
Councilman Labatt: I'd love to Mayor. Okay. While, this is one of these tough ones
here where the residents and neighbors, the passion to stop this and yet we're bound by
our zoning and rules that we have here, so this is a case where if the shoe fits you must
wear it. Bob, how's that?
Councilman Ayotte: That will work.
Councilman Labatt: You know as I look through the plans and specs, to try to come up
with a way to kill this thing, I don't see it. I mean the applicant here has bought a parcel
of land, whether it's public or private, under a legal means and we've done everything as
a city here as far was notifying whether it was private or public. We have no choice. I
like what Mr. Riese has done here with trying to come in with a project and a plan that
really blends in. If you look at what, in the Findings of Fact number 4. Creates a
harmonious relationship of building and open space with natural features and existing and
future buildings. You couldn't have asked for a better building. And here an applicant
has gone above and beyond what would normally be put upon them. It's a case like this
where I hate to say the term you know, this is where we become Chanhassle again.
Where this applicant here has gone way above to make this thing work. He's, where are
my notes here? Back when Tom and Brian and Craig, 2 years ago when you first joined,
we, remember I think it was Craig or Brian that asked city staff to inventory our city
property. We were faced with a budget crisis. And we were needing to come up with
funds and look at forecasting what we have. And we asked city staff to inventory all the
city property. Give us the zoning, give us the guiding and what's the plan for this and
that. This is one of those projects we talked about. And we as a council, the 5 of us
decided let's look at unloading some of this property that we're wasting here. Let's look
at generating some tax revenue on it. Let's see what we can do to fit in, and here's an
example here of our city staff doing what this council charged them to do. Doing what
the 18,000-20,000 charged the 5 of us to do and keep their taxes within line. Lower their
taxes when we can. Be good stewards of the money. Now here's a case where we're
doing it. And now we're, I don't want to ... but now we're being condemned for it. Two
years ago we talked about doing this and so there's been no, nothing put underneath the
hat here hidden. We've looked at different proposed developments here. I mentioned the
DQ Grill and Chill. Dunn Brothers. Goddard. The expansion of the church. They came
in on that night. There's been a lot of talk on selling this property. In the 7 years I've
been up here, we've talked about looking at this site as a potential church. It's too small
for that. We looked at a potential farmers market. And whether we brought that here to
City Center Park. But I've never recalled the conversation about us leaving it as a park or
42
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
open space or putting swing sets there. So I'll leave my comments at that. I'm in favor
of the project.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Councilman Lundquist: My comments probably a lot similar to Councilman Labatt's.
As we went forward on this proposal, again as Councilman Labatt said, I think it was
under direction of the council that staff went to sort of actively market this property so
they did that at the request of the council and/or the EDA. And I think that the efforts
that have gone through this proposal set it apart from the other ones that have come.
When Grill and Chill came, they were asked to make some changes and basically
responded with a flat out, you know no. And so that was our response in return. And as I
responded in my emails back that I received in the last few days on this project, it's still
my belief that this city shouldn't be in the land ownership business for the sake of owning
land. If we're not going to intend it, if we don't intend to do something with it, that we
should get it on the market and not, and be good stewards of our taxpayers money so
here's an opportunity we had to tum some of that land back into revenue and we found an
applicant who was extremely willing to make changes and added expense to themselves,
so that being said, again no variances. Meets all the codes. We have a legal and binding
agreement, purchase agreement and unfortunately not everybody's going to come out
happy in the end of this thing but hopefully we can learn some lessons going forward.
Right now not only are we bound by it, but I think I'm in favor of the proposal just on the
face value for what we've got so I would commend the Riese's and our staff as well
again for really trying to do the best for this site and put a good product on there that still
preserves the location and the feel. Look and feel of that area. So I'm also in favor.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Councilman Ayotte.
Councilman Ayotte: Yeah, a couple of facts. The facts are that traffic is not going to be
an issue. The facts are that our communications with the residents is flawed in this
particular situation because we got a whole bunch of signatures here of people with sour
pusses and we've got a project that's pretty solid and we've got a project that you guys
tried to assimilate to the community. Assimilate to a historical site which is really not a
historical site. So what I'd like to see, instead of people walking out because they don't
particularly care to hear what we've got to say, is to possibly consider heritage
preservation as a target out of this, and see if we have potential concerns and somehow
capture that, so I just want to bring that point up. Maybe there's something we should
look at and maybe, is the Villager here tonight? Villager's not here tonight so some of
these things that maybe should be getting into the Villager, like this discussion, may not
and maybe we need to figure out a way of communicating in tandem along with the
Villager so we've talked about this before. What things can we do to communicate so
that we don't have this particular situation. I dare say maybe half or a third or maybe
three-quarters of these people would feel better about the project if they would have
worked in concert with these folks to see all the things they've done to compliment that
church. There's nothing you can do to compliment the kitty whompus city hall we've got
sitting there. You know that was a snafu from the get go. So I'm in favor of the project.
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City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
I'm upset over the fact that the community doesn't seem to be educated on this point.
I'm concerned that we do not have a newspaper here to hear these concerns, and I'm also
wondering whether or not we do need to, in some fashion, take a look at our heritage
preservation activity and possibly formalize it in some fashion. And I've got these guys
names here. I'm going to make some calls to some of these folks, see if they want to
participate. Because peak and valley participation's not the way to go in a community,
so, and Mr. Atkins' point about maybe us taking another look at the population that we
communicate, maybe it shouldn't be a threshold. Maybe we should look at each situation
and see how we can invite more folks to participate so with regard to the project, I'm for
it. I'm concerned about heritage preservation identification and I'm concerned about
communication with the community and I think we have to address that in some fashion.
And I really applaud and appreciate your involvement with this community sir. Thank
you very much. That's it.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Try not to repeat. I think again the difference with this
property versus a normal site plan approval is that the city was involved early on as part
of the EDA having acquired this property through redevelopment. Objectives for our
downtown area. And what the EDA, Economic Development Authority, it's about
economic development. From a development standpoint, we can go back and say what
people were told. What they weren't told. I think from a practical standpoint, it's
important to follow and look at our comprehensive plan and what I heard tonight is that
long before the city ever acquired this property it was zoned for commercial
development. And it was not a park or that was not the intention. I think the issue I have
and some of the questions I was asking earlier tonight was the issue that's been brought
up is the sight line towards old St. Hubert's church. And so I was trying to ascertain what
was there before there was green grass. The reason there's green grass there now is
because, as I understand it, after the city acquired the properties, we razed them rather
than leaving empty buildings there. We didn't do that with the bowling alley. We waited
til we had a development there before that bowling alley came down, and there was
vandalism issues and obviously it was very unsightly and I guess I applaud the city
earlier for taking the buildings down here and at least planting grass rather than just
leaving them sit there. As Councilman Labatt said, this council directed staff to actively
look at property throughout the city that the city owned that could be redeveloped. That's
part of what the Economic Development Authority does. In addition to the bowling
alley, which is an ongoing redevelopment as that building has now come down and it's
happening. This was a site that we've looked at. You heard earlier we turned down
some other applicants because we didn't think it was appropriate. We also looked at the
old Red -E -Mix site along Highway 5 and the pedestrian bridge. We went out, actively
solicited proposals there. The ones that came back were not acceptable and we said no.
We're not interested in selling for those, so I believe this council is being prudent in
terms of looking for opportunities to put city owned property back onto the tax rolls, but
not doing it in such a way that we're doing it at fire sale prices or we're doing it at
whoever first comes through the door. So I think that's important. With regard to the
site plan itself, it meets the zoning requirements. It meets all the ordinances. I'm sorry.
Kate Aanenson: No, it exceeds.
44
City Council Meeting Atober 11, 2004 •
Mayor Furlong: Exceeds. There are no variances being requested. From a site plan
process itself, I commend the applicant, the Riese's for listening and doing so much to try
to accommodate the request of the historic site. Things that they didn't have to do that
I'm assuming they'd still meet site plan requirements had they not done that, so I think
that needs to be pointed out. So from a site plan standpoint, I can support and will
support it because it fits. You know from an overall development standpoint, there will
be disagreement on this in terms of site plan and like. You know with regard to a park or
with regard to a business there, private business, I think this type of business is
complimentary with other businesses around the area. It's kitty corner from Chapel Hill
Academy. The preschool. As we heard, the traffic flow is not going to be an issue. It's
going to bring people to our downtown, which is part of what economic development's
about and why we're going through this process. Parents are going to drop off their
children in the morning and bring them back in the afternoon. It's going to help other
businesses in the downtown. These are all issues that we talked about at the IDA. We
wanted to make sure that the traffic was addressed. It's been addressed. We wanted to
make sure that the architecture was appropriate. That I too believe has been addressed,
so that's getting more on the development issues and is more of a recap of what we did as
an EDA back, starting in April and then completing it through August. From a site plan
standpoint, I believe it meets the requirements and I will be voting in favor of it for
reasons previously stated. Any other comments or discussion? On this. The one thing I
would ask is that if somebody makes a motion, if they could include a condition.
Councilman Labatt: 19?
Mayor Furlong: 19. Do you have some language there or suggested language?
Kate Aanenson: Sure. If you just want to modify 18 that says the applicant must obtain a
sign permit. If you want to add no illumination.
Roger Knutson: Or is it neon signs?
Kate Aanenson: They intended no illumination...
Mayor Furlong: So no illumination? Where do you want that included in the language?
Kate Aanenson: I'll just modify number 18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit.
Somewhere at the end of that sentence. No illuminated signs are permitted.
Councilman Labatt: The pylon too? Let's just go with no neon. Can we do that Roger?
Just, I mean if they want. If it starts getting dark at 4:30 in the winter time. Maybe they
want a sign out there.
Kate Aanenson: That's fine.
Roger Knutson: I mean if you put a light on it.
45
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
Councilman Labatt: A regular incandescent back lit signor something, but let's just go
no neon for now. Is that okay Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: That's fine. If we could say no Original Mattress Factory sign, but
that's a little more specific. Let's find out where the problem is that addresses that. So
what, based on those comments, what would you suggest? No neon?
Councilman Labatt: No neon or high intensity lighting.
Councilman Lundquist: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: And we'll leave it to staff to determine high intensity. Thank you.
Councilman Labatt: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. With that, is there a motion on this?
Councilman Lundquist: I would move that the City Council approve Site Plan 04-32 for
an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown on the plans dated received
September 3, 2004, subject to conditions 1 through 18 including modifications for sign
lighting as previously discussed.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there?
Councilman Labatt: Second.
Mayor Furlong: It's been made and seconded. Is there any discussion on the motion?
Councilman Lundquist moved, Councilman Labatt seconded that the City Council
approve Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown
on the plans dated received September 3, 2004, subject to the following conditions:
Applicant shall preserve all existing trees south of the grading limits and outside of
the property lines. Any trees removed will be replaced at a rate of 2:1 diameter
inches.
2. Applicant shall move the red maple shown in the southeastern corner of the site to a
location within the grading limits. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the
city.
3. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will have to be obtained including
but not limited to the MPCA and Watershed District.
46
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 •
4. Add detail sheet showing City Detail Plate Nos. 1002, 1006, 2001, 3101, 3102, 5201,
5203, 5214 and 5300.
5. Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges are applicable for the new building. The
2004 trunk hookup charge is $1,458 for sanitary sewer and $2,814 for watermain.
Sanitary sewer and watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the
parcel at the time of building permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the
number of SAC units assigned by the Met Council.
6. Prior to building permit issuance, all plans must be signed by a professional civil
engineer registered in the state of Minnesota.
7. Any retaining wall over 4 feet in height must be designed by a Structural Engineer
registered in the State of Minnesota and require a permit from the Building
Department. A 4 -foot safety fence must be included on top of the wall where
adjacent to a pedestrian walkway.
8. On the site plan, revise the handicap parking stall from 9 -inch to 9 -feet.
9. On the utility plan:
- Revise the sanitary sewer pipe class from SDR35 to SDR26.
- Revise the watermain pipe from CL55 to CL52.
10. Show all existing easements on the plans.
11. Revise the plans to provide a minimum of 1.5 feet of elevation difference between the
FFE of the building and the emergency overflow elevations of the side yard areas.
12. Storm sewer sizing calculations for a 10 -year storm event must be submitted prior to
building permit approval
13. Tree protection fencing must be installed around all trees in the construction zone that
will remain.
14. All roof top equipment shall be screened.
15. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the
necessary financial securities.
16. Fire Marshal Conditions:
a. The building will be built to the 2000 International Fire Code as adopted by the
State of Minnesota not the NFPA 1012000 Life Safety Code.
b. Builder must comply with the following Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire
Prevention policies (copies enclosed):
• 01-1990 regarding fire alarm systems
47
City Council Meeting *tober 11, 2004 0
• 04-1991 regarding notes to be included on all site plans
• 07-1991 regarding pre -fire plan drawings.
• 29-1992 regarding premise identification
• 36-1994 regarding proper water line sizing
• 40-1995 regarding fire protection systems
• 34-1993 regarding water service installation
c. The 4 -inch ductal iron pipe as shown on page C4-1 should be no smaller than 6 -
inch per NFPA 13 Sect. 9-1.3.
17. Building Official conditions:
a. The building is required to be protected by automatic fire extinguishing systems.
b. The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
c. The accessible parking spaces must be located on the shortest possible route to the
buildings served.
d. Roof drain piping must be air tested within 10 feet of the building.
e. Detailed occupancy related requirements will not be reviewed until complete
plans are submitted for a building permit.
f. The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as
soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed
sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided
prior to requesting a sign permit. No neon or high intensity lighting will be allowed."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you everyone. We do appreciate your comments. Given the
hour, I'm going to call a 5 minute, or recess subject to the call of the chair. Be back in 5
minutes please.
The City Council took a short recess at this point.
REQUEST FOR A PRIVATE KENNEL PERMIT, 8561 FLAMINGO DRIVE,
LINDY & DENISE HOLLINGSWORTH.
Justin Miller: Mayor, council. Staff has received an application for a private kennel
permit at 8561 Flamingo Drive. By city code anybody who has more than 2 dogs or a
combination of 4 dogs or cats, over 6 months in age, are required to have a private kennel
permit. The normal city practice as stated in code as we published in notice of such a
request in the Chanhassen Villager. If no complaints are received and it meets a
satisfactory inspection by our kennel inspector, which is our CSO, and the animals are
licensed, it is granted. A kennel license. A private kennel license which is good for a
year. We did receive some complaints on this. One written, which was in your packet
and I received one verbal also which was not included in this obviously. The CSO's did
M
0 0 o4- 3L
CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
SUMMARY MINUTES
OCTOBER 5, 2004
Chairman Sacchet called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Dan Keefe, Bethany Tjornhom, Kurt Papke, Steve Lillehaug,
and Uli Sacchet. Rich Slagle arrived during item 3.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Craig Claybaugh
STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Sharmeen Al-Jaff, Matt Saam, Paul Oehme, and
Justin Miller
2005 MUSA AREA UPDATE ON FEASIBILITY STUDY, CITY ENGINEER.
Paul Oehme provided an update on the feasibility study being prepared for the 2005
MUSA area, highlighting the infrastructure and design criteria that has been established.
Commissioner Lillehaug asked staff to explain the feasibility of extending services to the
southwest corner of the area, which has been requested by a land developer in that area.
He also asked for clarification of the proposed collector roadway system. Chairman
Sacchet asked for clarification on the roadway alignments and if there's any flexibility in
their locations. Commissioner Lillehaug asked staff if they were comfortable with the
touch down points established by the County. There was no action taken on this item.
PUBLIC HEARING:
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN 8,068 SQUARE
THE GODDARD SCHOOL, FRED RIESE.
Public Present:
Name Address
John Bertelsen
Joel Hussong
Andy Martin
Brandy Geiger
Fred & Valaire Riese
Chris Thompson
Rick & Kathie Engelhardt
Judy Schmieg
Joanne Meuwissen
201 West Travelers Trail, BV
2428 Minneapolis
1016 W. Ninth Avenue, King of Prussia
1016 W. Ninth Avenue, King of Prussia
9154 Sunnyvale Drive
Remax Action West
403 Santa Fe Trail
200 West 77`s Street
201 West 77's Street
Planning Commissiontnmary — October 5, 2004 •
Fred Prinz 408 Santa Fe Circle
Dick Mingo 7601 Great Plains Boulevard
Jack Atkins 220 West 78m Street
Sharmeen Al-Jaff presented the staff report and Kate Aanenson clarified the role of the
Planning Commission in review of this item. Commissioner Papke asked for clarification
on zoning regulations for a school versus a daycare, and traffic circulation interfering
with current uses. Commissioner Tjomhom asked about hours of drop off and pick up
for the school, ages of the children, and location of the playground equipment.
Commissioner Keefe had a concern with safety and security with traffic along West 78th
Street. Commissioner Lillehaug questioned the setbacks and landscaping.
Commissioner Tjomhom asked staff to explain what happens with the building if the
school use leaves. Chairman Sacchet asked for clarification on the retaining walls and
elevations on the site. He also expressed concern with the size of the roof. Fred Riese,
9154 Sunnyvale Drive, spoke on behalf of himself and his wife, VaWre Riese, the
applicants. He thanked city staff for their assistance and introduced the civil engineers
from John Oliver and Associates and support staff from Goddard School. Commissioner
Keefe asked Brandy Geiger with Goddard Schools to outline their program and how it
differs from other daycare/school programs. Commissioner Papke asked how
architecturally this proposed building compares with Goddard's prototypical building.
Commissioner Lillehaug asked the applicant to comment on the parking agreement with
the church and questioned the adequacy of the parking. Commissioner Keefe asked the
applicant to explain the traffic circulation patterns in relation to their drop off and pick up
of students. Commissioner Papke and Chairman Sacchet asked the applicant to clarify
the color and height of the roof. Chairman Sacchet asked the applicant to elaborate on
the playground layout and size, and elevation of the site. John Bertelsen with John Oliver
and Associates explained how the building and amenities were located in relation to the
elevations of the site.
Chairman Sacchet opened the public hearing. Fred Prinz, 408 Santa Fe Circle presented
a petition signed by 160 people requesting that the property remain vacant and asked
what organization he should talk to regarding this issue. Justin Miller explained the
ERA's make-up and role in the decision making process. Jack Atkins, 220 West 78th
Street expressed concern that this use would be better located along Highway 5 on a
larger parcel and asked that this property be retained as open space. He also had concern
with the size of the roof. Dick Mingo, 7601 Great Plains Boulevard, a 47 year resident of
the community, stated he's not against a school but thinks this is the wrong site. He feels
the site should remain a park to go along with the historical area of old village hall and
old St. Hubert's Church. He suggested using the site for a Veteran's Memorial or a
Pioneer Memorial honoring the pioneers of this community. He also expressed concern
with the locations of the playgrounds. Judy Schmieg, 200 West 77`h Street asked for
clarification that this was a public hearing and that the residents of Chanhassen own the
property that's described as Lot 1, Block 1, Old Village Hall. Kate Aanenson clarified
the role of the Planning Commission is to decide whether or not this site plan meets with
the zoning code. The Planning Commission does not have the jurisdiction to decide
whether or not this piece of property should be sold. Judy Schmieg expressed frustration
Planning Commissionary — October 5, 2004 0
at the public hearing process and asked who the public, the 160 signatures on the petition,
need to talk to about keeping this parcel vacant. Chairman Sacchet suggested contacting
the mayor and City Council members with their concerns. She also expressed concern
that this was a daycare center, and asked if it was licensed with the State of Minnesota.
She also had concerns with traffic from this site interfering with the Dinner Theater
traffic and city traffic on Great Plains Boulevard and West 78`s Street. Chris Thompson,
representing Remax Action West, stated their concern with an island in the parking lot
interfering with the traffic flow from their site. He suggested re -writing their easement to
lose one of the spots in the parking lot and cut back on this existing island to make a
more reasonable entrance into the Remax Action West site. He also proposed that there
be some common signage associated with Remax, the proposed school, the church and/or
city hall in this general area to help guide people as to where they're going. Chairman
Sacchet closed the public hearing.
Planning Commissioners asked Justin Miller to clarify what agreements exist with the
property and if there is any verbiage that this site was planned as park and open space.
Kate Aanenson clarified that this site is zoned commercial, not parks and open space.
Dick Mingo commented that he felt it was dirty pool for the city to eliminate a business
place that had been there since 1933 and now replace it with another business place.
After commissioner comments, the following motion was made.
Lillehaug moved, Papke seconded that the Planning Commission recommends
approval of Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as
shown on the plans dated received September 3, 2004, subject to the following
conditions:
1. Applicant shall preserve all existing trees south of the grading limits and outside of
the property lines. Any trees removed will be replaced at a rate of 2:1 diameter
inches.
2. Applicant shall move the red maple shown in the southeastern corner of the site to a
location within the grading limits. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the
city.
3. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will have to be obtained including
but not limited to the MPCA and Watershed District.
4. Add detail sheet showing City Detail Plate Nos. 1002, 1006, 2001, 3101, 3102, 5201,
5203, 5214 and 5300.
5. Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges are applicable for the new building. The
2004 trunk hookup charge is $1,458 for sanitary sewer and $2,814 for watermain.
Sanitary sewer and watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the
parcel at the time of building permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the
number of SAC units assigned by the Met Council.
Planning Commission&maty — October 5, 2004 •
6. Prior to building permit issuance, all plans must be signed by a professional civil
engineer registered in the state of Minnesota.
7. Any retaining wall over 4 feet in height must be designed by a Structural Engineer
registered in the State of Minnesota and require a permit from the Building
Department. A 4 -foot safety fence must be included on top of the wall where
adjacent to a pedestrian walkway.
8. On the site plan, revise the handicap parking stall from 9 -inch to 9 -feet.
9. On the utility plan:
- Revise the sanitary sewer pipe class from SDR35 to SDR26.
- Revise the watermain pipe from CL55 to CL52.
10. Show all existing easements on the plans.
11. Revise the plans to provide a minimum of 1.5 feet of elevation difference between the
FFE of the building and the emergency overflow elevations of the side yard areas.
12. Storm sewer sizing calculations for a 10 -year storm event must be submitted prior to
building permit approval
13. Tree protection fencing must be installed around all trees in the construction zone that
will remain.
14. All roof top equipment shall be screened.
15. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the
necessary financial securities.
16. Fire Marshal Conditions:
a. The building will be built to the 2000 International Fire Code as adopted by the
State of Minnesota not the NFPA 1012000 Life Safety Code.
b. Builder must comply with the following Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire
Prevention policies (copies enclosed):
• 01-1990 regarding fire alarm systems
• 04-1991 regarding notes to be included on all site plans
• 07-1991 regarding pre -fire plan drawings.
• 29-1992 regarding premise identification
• 36-1994 regarding proper water line sizing
• 40-1995 regarding fire protection systems
• 34-1993 regarding water service installation
c. The 4 -inch ductal iron pipe as shown on page C4-1 should be no smaller than 6 -
inch per NFPA 13 Sect. 9-1.3.
4
Planning Commissionamnary — October 5, 2004 •
17. Building Official conditions:
a. The building is required to be protected by automatic fire extinguishing systems.
b. The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
c. The accessible parking spaces must be located on the shortest possible route to the
buildings served.
d. Roof drain piping must be air tested within 10 feet of the building.
e. Detailed occupancy related requirements will not be reviewed until complete
plans are submitted for a building permit.
f. The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as
soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed
sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided
prior to requesting a sign permit."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
In summary, Commissioner Lillehaug wanted to add that his support wasn't for the actual
use of this land for this building versus leaving it open space. It was strictly looking at
the site plan and if it adhered to the city comp plan and ordinances. Chairman Sacchet
stated the Planning Commission looked at this site plan in terms of how it fits with the
ordinances, comprehensive plan and the surrounding area. He addressed the concern
that's been brought up very strongly from the local residents that they would prefer this
to be an open area, a park, possibly a memorial and asked that the City Council consider
that request, especially considering the fact that there is a petition with 160 signatures
asking that the land remain vacant.
PUBLIC HEARING:
AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 20 OF THE CITY CODE REGARDING DESIGN
STANDARDS FOR MULTI -FAMILY HOUSING.
Public Present:
Name Address
Rick Dorsey 1551 Lyman Boulevard
Krista Novack Town & Country Homes, Eden Prairie
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item. Commissioners Papke and
Tjornhom asked staff to clarify how the design standards being proposed by staff line up
with what's being proposed by Town and Country Homes. Chairman Sacchet clarified
the wording on page 2, point 9. Chairman Sacchet opened the public hearing. Rick
Dorsey, who owns property at 1551 Lyman Boulevard, expressed his opinion that the
design standards being implemented were too vague. Not strict enough. He provided
5
y;
'r Planning Commission Wing — October 5, 2004
Lillehaug: I have one other quick question.
Sacchet: Yeah, go ahead Steve.
Lillehaug: Is the City comfortable with that touch down point at Butternut there? I mean
as planning and engineering, are we, are you guys pleased with where that is because I
mean even though the County's telling us that's where they want it, I mean are we, is that
where we want it?
Oehme: Yeah, the AUAR and the traffic analysis that went along with that, we need that
east/west connection point to facilitate development in this area. We feel on the, it's
really limited in terms of where we can put that along Audubon and the grades are
restricting us, the connection points to roadways. We always want to try to make T
intersections instead of off sets so. So those are the things that are really hampering us in
terms of where we can locate that connection.
Sacchet: Alright, thank you very much. Very, appreciate to get an update on that. It's a
big project for the city. With that let's move to our first public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING:
SITE PLAN REVIEW FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN 8,068 SQUARE
FOOT BUILDING ON PROPERTY ZONED CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT
THE GODDARD SCHOOL, FRED RIESE.
Public Present:
Name Address
John Bertelsen
Joel Hussong
Andy Martin
Brandy Geiger
Fred & Valaire Riese
Chris Thompson
Rick & Kathie Engelhardt
Judy Schmieg
Joanne Meuwissen
Fred Prinz
Dick Mingo
Jack Atkins
201 West Travelers Trail, BV
2428 Minneapolis
1016 W. Ninth Avenue, King of Prussia
1016 W. Ninth Avenue, King of Prussia
9154 Sunnyvale Drive
Remax Action West
403 Santa Fe Trail
200 West 77`s Street
201 West 77's Street
408 Santa Fe Circle
7601 Great Plains Boulevard
220 West 780' Street
Sharmeen AI-Jaff presented the staff report and Kate Aanenson clarified the role of
the Planning Commission in reviewing this item.
o4 -3Z
`r J Planning Commission ating — October 5, 2004 •
Sacchet: Questions of staff. Kurt, go ahead.
Papke: Throughout the proposal here in the report, this is referred to as a school. If
everywhere in the report we replace school with daycare center, would that change any
planning and zoning regulations, city code, treatment of any way, shape or form?
Al -Jaffa In fact what we did for instance for school standards and parking, there isn't as
much parking spaces required if you use that standard. What we did is we used for
instance daycare standards for the parking which is substantially higher. So we tried to
be more restrictive with our requirements of the applicant.
Papke: Okay. The only other question I had was, you mentioned from a traffic
perspective this compliments the use of the church parking lot and so on and that makes
great sense. The only concern I have from a traffic perspective is the Dinner Theater is
right across the street and during the week you do have some matinee performances I
believe.
Aanenson: Wednesday's.
Papke: Wednesday's. At what time? Do people start streaming in?
AI -Jaffa Do you know Justin?
Aanenson: I believe it's afternoon.
Miller: Late morning.
Sacchet: Late morning.
Papke: Late morning so there shouldn't be any interference because that was my only
concern when I looked at this where the entrance was. You know the people that come in
and look for where to park in the Dinner Theater. They're not always paying attention
and that would be my only concern from a traffic perspective would the traffic going in
and out at the appropriate pick-up and drop off. Obviously the drop off times in the
morning is going to be a non -issue, but at the pick-up time is there going to be any traffic
conflict with the Dinner Theater?
Al -Jaffa We'll be more than happy to double check on that tomorrow. The one thing that
we did do today for instance was to go out to the site during rush hour. See whether we
can get in and out of the parking lot easily and that wasn't an issue at all. But we'll be
more than happy to check that tomorrow.
Sacchet: Okay. Bethany, go ahead.
Tjornhom: I have a couple questions Sharmeen. There's a school located across the
street from this school.
0
r,
Planning Commission Wing — October 5, 2004 •
Al-Jaff: Correct.
Tjomhom: Now what are the hours of dropping off kids for this, the new school? Do
you know?
Al-Jaff: That's something that the applicant can answer.
Sacchet: The applicant will be able to address it. Okay.
Tjomhom: Okay, because my only concern is that you know you've got one school
dropping kids off in the morning and then the other school across the street dropping kids
off and everyone trying to merge into the same traffic area together, so you know I'd
assume they'd both have kind of the same hours of the day, morning and you know mid-
afternoon for that. Maybe not.
Aanenson: I'm just assuming, Chapel Hills starts a little after 8:00. Most people have to
be work by 8:00 so I'm assuming that the daycare would probably be loaded by the time.
Tjomhom: Before then.
Aanenson: That's just my.
Tjomhom: So then this is a school like, not a daycare but for younger ages?
Aanenson: Well yeah, but you're going to take them to school on your way to work more
than likely, yeah.
Tjomhom: So then okay, that was my question was what are the real ages of the kids?
Aanenson: They can address it more specifically.
Tjornhom: Is it more like a preschool or is it?
Sacchet: It's babies up to 6 years old, that's clearly what I read.
Papke: The drawings show the ages of the different groups.
Sacchet: It's 2 or 4 months starting. I mean really little.
Tjomhom: Little, okay. And then where is the location of the playground equipment?
Sacchet: Both sides.
Tjomhom: Both sides?
" Planning Commission sting — October 5, 2004 •
Al -Jaffa Both sides of the building.
Jack Atkins: On both sides?
Tjomhom: Okay. And that's it for now I think.
Sacchet: Thanks Bethany. Dan, any questions?
Keefe: Just a quick question. Can you speak at all to kind of the safety and security for
that particular location? Just given there's a high volume of traffic which goes along
West 78m and I drive it you know morning and afternoon and I know there's a lot of
traffic and there's a fence and I saw they got playground equipment on both sides. Any
consideration in terms of you know security or safety concerns? Particularly in light of
the.
Al -Jaffa Not really. One of the things that we thought of was, before Chapel Hills, St.
Hubert's used to be there and to my knowledge there's never been an issue with, from a
safety standpoint with the school.
Sacchet: Yeah, we'll get to the hearing in a minute. Anything else Dan?
Keefe: Well, just in terms of where it's mostly a drop off I'm assuming and no bus
service and.
Aanenson: No, it's not like across the street where they'd be walking or something like
that.
Keefe: Yeah right so it's drop off at the door. Okay. That's it.
Sacchet: Steve, any questions?
Lillehaug: Just a couple. Looking at the compliance table on page 8, and the building
setbacks, it looks like only 12 foot ... 12 feet is pretty close. Does engineering or planning
have any concerns with the building being that close to the property line?
Al -Jaffa Not really, no. And it is.
Lillehaug: Is that standard along?
Al-Jaff: 5 feet from.
Aanenson: If you look at Medical Arts is probably pretty close to.
Lillehaug: Look at what?
Aanenson: Medical Arts, which is just across the street.
Planning Commission sting — October 5, 2004 •
Lillehaug: To the north.
Sacchet: The north side, yeah.
Lillehaug: So it kind of matches what goes through that corridor?
Al -Jaffa Axel's is right up to the property also.
Lillehaug: Is it that close?
Al -Jaffa Yeah.
Lillehaug: Okay. Looking at the model here, it looks like there's adequate landscaping
but in the landscaping table, how can we be off so much on the required and the
proposed? Does the proposed not take into account the fact, or the existing landscaping
out there? Is that why the table is kind of skewed?
Al -Jaffa Yeah.
Lillehaug: So if you were to put.
Al -Jaffa The majority of the landscaping is actually existing and what we're trying to do
is maintain the existing landscaping. That has been a goal for our City Forester in this
case, and if you look at the conditions of approval, the penalties are for trees. Existing
trees lost.
Lillehaug: So are you saying if you added the proposed trees up and the existing trees
which we don't have a count on, that it would be pretty close to what's required for that
site? That's all I have, thanks.
Sacchet: Thanks Steve. Do you have another question Bethany?
Tjornhom: I have one more question Sharmeen, and I think that the school is a good mix
or it is a good blend for that area of town. What happens if the school leaves and the
building is there one day?
A] -Jaffa They will be able to address this issue as well.
Tjomhom: Okay. Because it is a historical part of town.
Al -Jaffa Correct. And that is true with any development that comes to town. What
happens if they left. We always make sure that from a parking standpoint they have to
meet requirements. The use has to be permitted within that zoning district. So there are a
number of things that we still have to address and make sure that they meet ordinance
requirement.
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Planning Commission Oeting — October 5, 2004 •
Tjomhom: So they couldn't turn into like a fast food place in 10 years?
Aanenson: Well again, it would have to meet the performance standards. So they'd have
to modify the building which would require coming back. And then, as Sharmeen
indicated, they would have to meet the parking standards. So there is some trigger points
that will, and based on that square footage of building, I doubt that that would happen,
yeah.
Miller: Justin Miller, Assistant to the City Manager. As one of the requirements in the
purchase agreement, we did put additional restrictions on the property that run with the
property and those restrictions are no automotive uses, no fast food, no convenience, so
even if this property does sell there's limits on what it can be.
Tjomhom: Okay.
Sacchet: Thanks for clarify that Justin. I have two questions still too. My main question
is that the retaining wall, and it's probably more an engineering type of question. First
when I looked at the plans, I was trying to figure out is this retaining wall up or down,
and I finally realized that it's down, so you basically have the road level, and it goes
down quite significantly, like about 4 feet or so. So there's quite a drop. We have that
fence, that wrought iron fence with the nice brick pillars but then it goes down 4 feet and
there's a retaining wall. And then it's basically level with the parking area, for more or
less right? And I wonder, on one hand it seemed a little abrupt. A little much to me. It's
just kind of make it flat and then have a retaining wall. Are there reasons from
engineering viewpoint why it couldn't be maybe terraced or why it has to be like that?
Are there concerns like, one of the commissioners already brought up the concern about
safety. I mean is there a safety concern? I mean if a car bumps into that fence, goes
through the fence, bumps right down? Stuff like that. Has that been looked at?
Saam: Sure, yeah. But I spoke with the applicant's engineer prior to the meeting and I
think they're going to address a little bit on this.
Sacchet: Okay, so we'll hear from the applicant.
Saam: Yeah. Basically the building elevation was set to standards such as there's
accessible, there's slope standards for accessible, what people used to call handicap
routes. You can't go over a certain slope for wheelchairs that expects accessibility.
They're keeping a lot of the existing parking so that elevation's kind of set. Then you
have West 780' Street and that sidewalk so that elevation's set so maybe the applicant's
engineer can talk to this a little better than me but basically with those two, the bottom,
the top being set and then the maximum slope requirements, that sets your building
elevation. So, and again maybe the applicant will add to that but that's.
Sacchet: Can you just clarify the height of the retaining wall on the north side where it's
probably the highest? It's about what?
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Planning Commission ting — October 5, 2004 •
Saam: Yeah, it is. 4 1/2, I see 4'h at the highest point. If I'm reading it tight. Yeah, 4
'h appears to be the highest so.
Sacchet: 4 1/2 , and that kind of leads to my second question where we have this
building that's kind of recessed 4 feet roughly into the ground and so that takes away
from the height of the floor, for this is one story building. Then we have, it seems, what
seems to me a pretty massive roof structure on top of it. Now Sharmeen, you mentioned
that you already worked with the applicant to try to reduce that as much as possible.
Al -Jaffa What we did was, they changed the angle of the roof system.
Sacchet: Okay.
Al -Jaffa And that resulted in 4.3 feet less than what they initially put, so the roof that you
see today is essentially lower than where we started.
Sacchet: So from staff's perspective that is a balance thing, because my concern is since
the building's kind of recessed down, which makes it first look smaller, it's going to
make that roof structure even appear more massive. And it seemed like there was really a
massive amount of space in that roof structure, which is really just decorative the way I
understand it. I don't think it's being used.
Al -Jaffa They will be able to address this issue in more detail but it is intended to house
their roof top equipment basically and hide it from views. They have introduced 4
dormers, different sizes to just break up the, rather than looking at one large roof. But
they will be able to address that.
Sacchet: That's probably what we'll hear from the applicant on that part, okay. Alright,
I think that's all the questions. With that I'd like to invite the applicant to come forward
and tell us your story please. See what you can add to what staff presented and if you
would please state your name and address for the record.
Fred Riese: Absolutely. My name is Fred Riese and my wife's name is Valaire Riese.
We live at 9154 Sunnyvale Drive here in Chanhassen and it's been a pleasure working
with the city staff on this project. There's been a lot of cooperation and it's been our goal
from the beginning to work with maintaining the historic site for those working now in
the architecture of the school. And we are very proud to actually bring the Goddard
School to Chanhassen because we know it's going to give parents an alternative to a
regular child care facility for bringing their children to a preschool type business. My
staff here is John Bertelsen from John Oliver and Associates. And also Joel Hussong
from John Oliver and Associates as civil engineers. Brandy Geiger from Goddard
Systems, and Andy Martin from Goddard Systems and they are here to help me in
answering any of your questions. So please feel free to do so.
Sacchet: Thank you very much. Questions from the applicant.
I1
Planning Commission Ating — October 5, 2004 •
Keefe: Yeah, I'm interested just to hear a little bit more about the Goddard School and
what it is and if you could just describe the business a little bit in terms of what it is.
Sacchet: How you distinguish yourself from other schools.
Papke: As you speak to that, it sounds like this a franchise of some sort.
Fred Riese: That is correct. Yeah, we are.
Papke: That's where, you know how many others there are and how does this compare
with the others, etc, etc.
Fred Riese: Sure. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask Brandy Geiger from
Goddard Systems to step up and she'll be able to fill you in on all those details.
Brandy Geiger: Good evening. First let's start off by yes, Goddard School is a franchise
business. They are not corporately run schools. They are owned and operated by local
residents. Fred and Valaire Riese are purchasing a license to operate our program and
they will be on site and operating it. They will be under our auspices and we will be
helping them develop curriculum and that sort of thing. We have a 170 schools open
right now in 23 states. This will be the first one in the State of Minnesota so we're real
excited not only for it to be the first one but to be in this community because of the
support we've gotten from the city has been incredible. A little bit about what the
Goddard School is and how it's a little different, or very different from a lot of the other
centers that you look at. If daycare or child care centers. This is a preschool. What we
do offer full educational curriculums to infants up through 6 years of age. It is 7:00 a.m.
to 6:00 p.m., Monday through Friday. We really see ourselves more as the home away
from home for our children because of the interaction with the staff and the children. It's
very low ratios of staff to the children in the classrooms. There's a lot of interaction with
the parents with the on site owners because they're probably there with their neighbors,
co-workers and that sort of thing. We pride ourselves in our quality assurance. In our
health and safety and our commitment to making sure that the school is the highest
quality it can possibly be and that's evidenced by the interest that we have in people from
across the country who want to invest in this and want to open schools, either in states
that are already established, or in newer states like this. Like Minnesota. We just
recently, you know we're just about to move into Arizona and that sort of thing. We're
really spreading out over the country. We have been ranked over the last 3 years by
Entrepreneur Magazine as a solid business for the entrepreneurial type people that the
Riese's are, so we're very proud of that and we are leaders in our industry in just about
every aspect of what we do from playgrounds all the way up to curriculum. You
mentioned a couple things about our hours, which I just addressed, 7:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m.. Little bit about drop off and pick up and how the traffic flows within our parking
lot, if you'd like me to address that, I can do that. We do have a staggered drop off
between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. in the morning. We do that because we don't want to
have the problem that a lot of schools run into where they have a drop off time where you
12
r Planning Commission feting — October 5, 2004 •
have you know the cars cueing in all morning and standing there and blocking traffic.
Everybody has different times that they need to get to work in the morning so the staff
will work with the parents to organize a drop off that's as streamline as possible. We do
the same thing in the afternoon. Our pick up is between 4:00 and 6:00 p.m. I do want to
add that a lot of our students are part time. It means that they either come half days or
they only come 2 or 3 days a week. In that case about 30 percent of our student
population leaves midday every day. So the amount of traffic that you have in the
morning or the parents are coming in and dropping off, they will be coming back 30
percent of them come back in the afternoon and then you have less in the evening that
they are coming to pick up. I also want to mention that we do have a drop off procedure
that they do pull into the parking lot. They park. They stop their car. They take the child
into the building. And we do that for the safety of the children obviously, and it's also an
easy transition between the child and the staff member that they're getting turned over to.
I think you mentioned, I think it was, I think maybe I did cover the primary things. If
there's anything else that I can answer please.
Papke: From an architectural perspective, how does this particular unit compare? Is
there a look to all the Goddard Schools that this one adheres to or are all these unique?
Brandy Geiger: We have, we've been around for 15 years so we have a lot of schools
and Andy can come up and speak to that. He's one of our construction managers. We
have a lot of schools that have very different styles. Over the last couple of years we're
trying to really focus in on having that high quality look to the schools to reflect what's
going on inside the school. This is close to what our prototype is currently, but we have
adjusted it quite a bit to fit in with the site, with the desires of the city and with the needs.
Based on what this State of Minnesota tells us that we have to have within the building.
And anything else you'd like to add to that.
Andy Martin: Good evening. My name is Andy Martin. I also represent the Goddard
School. To give you a little history on the layout to start before I get into the
architectural aspects of the building. In fact, do we have the layout? First I'd like to
point out that our standard building of course, 8,000 square feet in size. Measures 80 by
100 foot. Due to the site constraints with this, I'm going to call it a pie shaped parcel,
and with what was existing parking there, obviously we chose to plot the building at the
northern portion of the lot. We discussed with the tenant and we looked at it from two
angles as far as how to place the building. Generally our entrance is from the 80 foot side
of the building, and we did inquire with the State of Minnesota to see if it was feasible to
modify our floorplan to accommodate an entrance off of the 100 foot side. But in this
location it did make more sense, it gave us a wider playground to the east and west side
of the building, which was much more appealing for the operation of the center. Then,
once we have, we're set in working with the city here and the plotting of the building, we
moved onto the roof and the architectural aspects of the building. Generally our building
has a 6:12 pitch. Unfortunately that didn't sit so well with the church as the back drop so
we were able to redesign the roof structure as minimum as we could, because currently
we do have all our mechanical equipment in the mezzanine of this building. This one
story building. All the furnace units, everything is located in that area. So though it's
13
Planning Commission Sting — October 5, 2004 •
usable space and the large mass of the roof structure, it is used for the mechanical
equipment. So I believe we did our best to make the roof line work within these
characteristics of the surrounding buildings in this area. Second, I know Fred Riese did
of course do research with some local vendors on the brick color and what not trying to
accommodate a suitable shade of brick to work within the church. The characteristics
and colors of the church. I'd like to touch base on the safety concerns as well, if that was
satisfactory to you. I know, I believe we are 12 foot from the right-of-way with the
setback of the building. And unfortunately, well I'll let the engineer, John Bertelsen, or
Joel discuss the grading and the reason we recessed the building for the accessibility
reasons but as far as for the location and such close proximity to 78`s Street and of course
Great Plains Boulevard, we still feel very confident that with the local speed limits on
these two roads being 35 miles per hour, we are within adequate distance from that in the
event something were to happen there. We do, we did beef up the fence with the brick
columns inbetween the spans of the wrought iron type fence.
Sacchet: Alright, questions?
Keefe: Well I still have just a business question. Who do you guys compare yourselves
to in the market locally in Minnesota? I mean what sort of, who's kind of a comparable
operation? Yeah because obviously you fit in somewhere. Where do you...
Brandy Geiger: As far as part of the industry and who?
Keefe: Yeah.
Brandy Geiger: Our chief, if you want to call it a competitor I guess the one program
that's probably the closest to our's, I actually think, I don't even think they're in
Minnesota yet either. It's call Primrose Academy which is another preschool educational
facility. There are a couple in locally that I've seen. I think you have maybe a
Kindercare or something like that. They're probably in the same industry. Their
program is different. They're considered more of a daycare/child care. We do with our
educational standards, but they are in our industry. There's Children's World, New
Horizons, if that rings any bells.
Sacchet: Maybe you could give us a little bit of a nutshell insight of what your
philosophy is. How you deal with little kids. I mean you're calling a baby a student so
you must be trying to teach him something. There must be some sort of a basic principle
that you're following I would suspect.
Brandy Geiger: Right. Our entire curriculum is a Peoget based curriculum which
basically says that children learn through play. They learn through interaction. They
learn through integration with what's going on. It's not just static learning. It's not that
they're sitting in a comer playing by themselves. You could have an infant that's having
interaction with a staff member. They're on the floor playing with that staff member.
With maybe the other children. They're not in a swing or a crib all day long. There's
interaction. They get that contact that children need at that young age. I did get a lot of
14
Planning Commission Sting — October 5, 2004 •
strange looks when I say we had educational curriculum for an infant. Anyone would
have said the same thing. What do you teach them? But you teach them there's
interactive skills and you really include them in group and that has been shown to help
tremendously. Then you move into pre -toddlers and toddlers and pre -kindergarten and of
course you just get into a huge range of things. Anything from sign language to foreign
language. We do have a lot of Spanish programs in some of our schools. Into dramatic
play. Of course there's the arts and there's the science and there's language and there's
all kinds of things that we try to involve them in that are activity based that they can
interact with and they get status reports. They go home with them every day. That the
teacher hand writes notes on each student every day that gets home with the parents so
they know what they did. They know what they experienced and I have several parents
who say you know they, sitting at the dinner table and all of a sudden the child starts
counting in Spanish. And of course that doesn't mean they speak Spanish but it means
you know they're listening and they're retaining something and they enjoy it.
Sacchet: You say it's based on Peoget?
Brandy Geiger: I'm sorry?
Sacchet: Who was it based on?
Brandy Geiger: Peoget. Ah yes. We also have a very well known child psychologist
that I believe is with Harvard University, if I'm not mistaken. Dr. Kyle Pruitt who is one
of our, who is our main consultant. Who is renown in his field as very knowledgeable of
the development of children. He writes books on our behalf. He, we just finished a
series of parent discussions with him that we do a lending library with our parents on
everything from biting to moving to divorce to all these sorts of things.
Sacchet: Well I appreciate you sharing a little bit about that. That's not necessarily what
we're judging here but it's good to have the framework. Go ahead Steve.
Lillehaug: Back to planning. I have a question for Mr. Riese. If you can comment on
the parking agreement with the city or with the church and the adequacy of the parking in
your mind and possibly, you know I don't know if, I don't know what that church
operates as far as weekday events, but my church has some events during the day that
may overlap with the parking in your school there.
Fred Riese: The church has indicated to us, Justin Miller and I had a meeting with the
church, and also with Remax and the church had indicated to us that during the day
hours, the regular work day hours, that they would only require around 3 spots maximum
during the day hours, except on the weekends of course, for services. Which doesn't
interfere with the Goddard School because we are closed on the weekends. The church
is, in easements that are being currently re -written as we speak, the church is going to get
3 designated spaces on the east side of the parking lot which will be their's and their's
alone for the daytime hours. And so, and city hall will get 4 designated spaces which will
be their's and their's alone during the daytime hours also. The easement with Remax is
15
Planning Commission Aing — October 5, 2004 •
going to be maintained almost exactly the way it is, except that they're going to be
allowed through mutual agreements with the new owner, myself and my wife, that they
will be allowed to have overflow parking for special events and things like that. The
church will be using the parking obviously to a greater extent on the weekends. I believe
they have a congregation of about 50 right now and the parking lot holds 51 currently.
That's how the new design will be, about 51. So there should be adequate parking for
them on the site.
Lillehaug: Okay, thank you.
Sacchet: Any more questions?
Keefe: Yeah, just planning related which will be related to dropping off the kids and the
adequacy of sort of the staging area for dropping them off. It just seems, I was just taking
a look at it. It doesn't seem like there's a ton of space between where the entrance to the
door is and the curb cut to go out to Great Plains Boulevard. I mean in terms of just the
volume of traffic that you expect to go in in the morning and sort of the circulation in that
parking lot, can you just speak to that a little bit in terms of...
Fred Riese: Yeah, the circulation in the parking is two way. It goes both ways. The
parking that's going to be right in the front of the school, okay which you can probably
see in the model there a little bit. Actually that's right here. That is going to be
designated as drop off and pick up and then the hatched area here, you can see this is an
area that's left open for parents and the children to have access to the front of the building
without having to go between cars.
Keefe: That's it.
Sacchet: Kurt.
Papke: Another design question. Sharmeen, when you showed the layout of the colors
of the brick and so on, given the 4 foot elevation change and the design of the building,
about 60-70 percent of what we're going to see is shingles as we drive down 78`s Street.
What, I hope that the color, the shingles aren't going to be white as they're shown on the
scale model over there. I suspect there's been some thought about the color and texture
of the shingles. They are on there, okay. Okay.
Fred Riese: Yeah, the shingles are a weather wood. I matched it to the church's cedar
shingles the best I could. The church shingles are obviously you know extremely old and
actually moldy and green in a lot of areas. So weathered wood was the closest I could
come. It's going to be an architectural shingled roof.
Papke: Okay.
Sacchet: You already touched on the height of the roof and that it's being used for roof
top equipment like heating and cooling and all that sort of stuff I presume.
16
Planning Commission &ng — October 5, 2004 •
Fred Riese: There's going to be that type of equipment inside.
Sacchet: It does need that much height and space in there? It seemed quite bulky to me,
but on the other hand you comment on how you already reduced it so it looks like you
already did something in that direction, but I'd still like you to comment a little more on
that.
Fred Riese: Yeah, I had many discussions with Sharmeen, the architect and Andy Martin
on this subject. To bring it down to the 5:12 roof line and we're doing that. As it is they
tell me that the space for let's say any maintenance done on the mechanicals up in the
attic area is they said is going to be extremely tight. Even with you know, and then the
mechanicals will fit but for someone to go up there and do maintenance after the project
is complete, will be more difficult they said because of the limited roof. The limited area
that will be available.
Sacchet: So in other words you think you went about as far as you reasonably can go
with that?
Fred Riese: That is correct.
Sacchet: Because my concern as I voiced before is that since the building is recessed and
that will make the roof look even more substantial because what's underneath is going to
be visually shrunk since it's recessed into the ground.
Fred Riese: I understand what you're saying, yes. If you look at it from a certain angle
like, let's say you're looking from west to east down 78th Street.
Sacchet: Right, you see mostly roof.
Fred Riese: You're going to see a lot of roof, but if you look at the 3D model, you're
going to see a lot of trees which actually will help block that roof. And those trees are
going to, they're existing and they're going to be staying so.
Sacchet: Good. And then my other question was the recessed aspect. The retaining
walls. It was mentioned in terms of accessibility and all that. Staff mentioned that was a
concern. I would assume you probably explored possibilities that you wouldn't have to
dig into the ground and put the building that far down.
Fred Riese: Yeah, I mean I would love to just keep it right on the flat surface where it is
now but for safety reasons, and actually I should probably let John Bertelsen, or Joel go
into this. For safety concerns we needed to bring it down, the grading down so that the
parking lot and the area in front of the building, that it would be safe for pedestrians.
Otherwise it was going to be like a ski slope, and would have been very dangerous.
17
Planning Commission Ating — October 5, 2004 •
Sacchet: Okay. Now in terms of where actually the playgrounds are, that's just small
area of the area on both sides.
Fred Riese: On both sides, yeah.
Sacchet: So what's the rest of the space being used around the playgrounds themselves
because it seems like the playgrounds are those small fenced areas with the play
equipment. Or is it the whole area?
Fred Riese: The whole area. The whole area is the playgrounds. Where this area here
and here is just where the playground equipment is.
Sacchet: Okay, but the whole area would be used for playground, okay. I want to be
clear about that. Okay. Yeah, so I'd like to hear a little bit more about this.
Fred Riese: Playground?
Sacchet: Elevation stuff and playground.
Andy Martin: In looking at the elevations I would just like to touch base on the
requirements of our playgrounds for the Goddard School. With finished side yard. With
finished side yard. We do have I believe approximately 3,500 square feet to either side,
which does meet Minnesota standards for playground... these rectangular boxes
underneath these piece of equipment is for, what's called a rubberized poured in place
surface. It's a resilient rubber surface. It's much better nowadays than sand or mulch.
So, but that is the use that is required under those equipment pieces. Otherwise the rest
of it, the yard is sod.
Sacchet: Okay. Yeah, that's good to be clear about that. Thank you. Do we want to
hear about the elevation aspect from the engineering people?
John Bertelsen: I'm John Bertelsen with John Oliver and Associates in the Burnsville
office. The building and the elements around the building are very tightly related to one
another. The main components here are the building, the sidewalk to the north, the
sidewalk to the south, both of which are just about immediately adjacent to the building.
You have the head in parking that's directly south of the sidewalk on the south, and then
you have the drive aisle that's just south of that. The existing parking lot right now ends
approximately here, and if you obviously are aware of the site. The upper portion is
fairly flat and then you have a parking lot which slopes fairly consistently from the north
to the south at about a 6 percent grade, which is really more than what you'd like to see in
a parking lot because of the stop and starting that comes, that happens in parking lots.
Joel has actually attended a wedding at the church here in the winter and has had slidden
all the way down this entrance here unable to stop so it's really too steep for stopping and
starting movements. So when I looked at the site, and I looked at the grades in that
parking lot, I said unacceptable. However we really don't have the flexibility to redo all
the grades in the parking lot so we've got to work somewhat with what we have. We've
IVi
Planning Commission Ating — October 5, 2004
got to take into consideration the use that we're proposing. So what I did was, just
relating to itself, you've got a building that's flat. Flat elevation. Obviously it's one
level. You have a sidewalk to the north and the south which slopes at 2 percent which is
the typical slope for sidewalks. We have handicap parking here, ADA parking which can
be a maximum of 2 percent, and then we have the drive aisle which I set at what's kind of
my maximum of 3 percent. I'll go to 4 but really in 24 feet, 3 to 4 percent is only about
that much, so it really isn't that good but it's way better than the 6 percent that's out
there. So when you take that in relation to itself, you have to drop it down or raise it up
until that southerly edge matches the existing parking lot. When you do that the rest of it
bam, is set. So you just take that elevation of the existing parking lot. Run those
percentage to grades, which is 0 in the building, 2 percent base because you're parking
and sidewalk, all the way through to the north to the south. South to the north excuse me,
and you get an elevation. There's really no way to change that other than adjusting the
floor in the building, or putting some more space between the building and the sidewalks,
it just isn't available on this particular facility. So it just happens that we ended up with 4
feet at the north end. 4 feet is a pretty nice dimension when you have these segmental
retaining walls that you see being put up all over the place. The standard block units. 4
feet is a maximum height that you can go before you have to start putting some geo grid
fabric back behind the wall to keep the wall stable. So in this instance it just happened to
be 4 feet. We didn't really choose 4 feet. We didn't choose to put a retaining wall there
really either. It just happened to come out that way. And we would like to reduce that
because the retaining wall obviously costs money. We'd like to reduce the amount of fill
coming off the site, but it just isn't there because of the existing parking lot grades, and
the relationship with sidewalks to the building and ADA requirements.
Sacchet: So for this type of use, terracing or anything like that wouldn't really work?
Okay.
John Bertelsen: No, it just doesn't work. As Andy had mentioned, if we could have
turned the building 90 degrees, that would have helped but you would have lost
significant playground and really it wouldn't have been nearly as functional as it is today.
Sacchet: Thank you very much. Well I appreciate your presentation. You want to add
something more from your end?
Fred Riese: Not unless you have some more questions for us.
Sacchet: I think we about exhausted our questions so thank you very much for excellent
presentation from all of you. Excellent team here. With that, this is a public hearing. I'd
like to invite any of the residents that are here to come forward. If you have something to
comment about this proposal. This is your time to come forward and please state your
name and address for the record and let us know what you have to say please. Please get
the microphone somewhat targeting your mouth. Yeah, you just pull it right over. It's a
flexible arm. There you go.
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Planning Commission ating — October 5, 2004 •
Fred Prinz: I don't want to talk too loud into it. My name is Fred Prinz. I live at 408
Santa Fe Circle, which is a couple of streets away from 78th Street. I just found out today
that basically all I can do is comment on my presentation and that what I'm saying is not
bonafide as far as the building itself. But I ran a survey with a bunch of members of our
city and basically I've accumulated about 160 signatures here which I'd like to give to
the Planning Commission to submit along with whatever else you do. But basically the
160 people are requesting that the property remain vacant. I know this is probably not in
your purvey at this point to make.
Sacchet: But are they willing to buy it?
Fred Prinz: Huh?
Sacchet: Are they willing to buy it?
Fred Prinz: No, the city already bought it. We paid for it already. And so I don't see
that we have to buy it again.
Sacchet: Okay. That was semi joke so.
Fred Prinz: I understand... so I'd like to submit this and give it to wherever this
organization that we have, who is composed of that organization? That EDA.
Sacchet: The EDA that is?
Fred Prinz: Yes. Who are they?
Aanenson: Justin, want to address that?
Sacchet: Justin, do you want to speak up to that please.
Fred Prinz: Because if I have to address them, I'd like to be able to know who I'm
talking to.
Sacchet: Well here's one of them, right?
Miller: No. I don't get a vote. The EDA is the Economic Development Authority and
it's made up of the 5 members of the City Council.
Fred Prinz: Currently.
Miller: Currently.
Sacchet: It is the City Council.
Fred Prinz: With the mayor and all that?
Planning Commission ating — October 5, 2004
Miller: The mayor and the 4 council members make up the EDA.
Fred Prinz: So then in this case I would, just for elaboration on my part, whatever my
next step is, would have to deal with the City Council, is that correct? Okay, thank you.
That's all I had.
Sacchet: Thank you very much. Anybody else wants to come forward? Jack, please.
State your name and address.
Jack Atkins: My name's Jack Atkins. I live at 220 West 78`h Street. About 2 blocks east
of the property. I guess in lieu of not being able to bring Pauly's back, it seems to me
there was some reference made to the open space and usage on it. It looks to me like the
entire property, right up to the right-of-way is being fenced in with a wrought iron gates
and there's no public access to any of that. It's basically being locked off. I think you
have to go through the building to get out into the play areas?
Sacchet: I would definitely think so considering the use of it.
Jack Atkins: So I mean from a public use standpoint we'll get to enjoy it by looking at it
through the wrought iron fence.
Sacchet: And you can look down too from 78th Street.
Jack Atkins: Yeah, and look down. I guess from my standpoint, I mean certainly the
EDA has to make economic as well as whatever type of decisions but I mean this would
seem something at least should be sited along the frontage road on Highway 5. To me
there's plenty of space there to accommodate that, and I understand that going from a
6:12 to 5:12 was an accommodation but 5:12 over a distance of probably what, that's 40
feet there. It's 17 feet of pitch to the top of the roof from the top of the first floor, which
is pretty significant like you said. It's a lot of roof, but I mean it's better than a Chill and
Grill but anyway that's my comment.
Sacchet: Thanks Jack.
Dick Mingo: Good evening. We're missing a good ball game here. My name is Dick
Mingo. I live at 7601 Great Plains Boulevard which is about 3 short blocks straight north
of the site we're discussing. I'm a 47 year resident of this community. I've lived here
since the population was about 110 when I married my wife and moved in here. It's
changed quite a bit. My very quick comment is, a number of comments I want to make
about this site. First off I'm not against a school but I think it's in the wrong site. It
definitely does not belong on that site. We've got two historical things left in this whole
community that kind of are our original items, and one of them we moved in there. Of
course the old city hall. And St. Hubert's original church of course goes way back.
Dates to old times. We have got a park there, and I know we've paid for it. You also
paid for Bandimere Park. You paid for some other parks. You just have to write it off
PC
Planning Commission ating — October 5, 2004
that this is a park. I think that should remain as a park. You've got a beautiful
unhindered view of those historic sites as you come down from the west, real neat
looking area. In the next few weeks we're going to see beautiful trees along there. One
of the prettiest sites in all of Chanhassen. In fact I would like to see at some point in the
future if we could keep it a park, which it should be. That that would be a site for a
Veteran's Memorial or a Pioneer Memorial honoring the pioneers of this community. I
think it's a great gateway to Chanhassen. As the people come into town. We've got
literally thousands and thousands of visitors visiting our Dinner Theater right across the
street and I would think it would be very nice to maintain that park and that historic site
for our visitors as they come in. A couple things about what I'm seeing here. The
playground. That was one of the thoughts I had. Where are they going to play? In the
cemetery? But I see you've got that and you've got one playground that's going to be
sitting right outside the front doors of the two historical sites. The other one will be in
the west side that you'll see as you come down 78a Street toward it. I love playgrounds.
I'm a retired school teacher. Taught school for 30 years but playgrounds are not very
pretty. They're there for fun and again I just think this is the wrong thing in the wrong
spot here in Chanhassen and I would just plead that we keep this as a city park and
maintain it for future reference. Again it's the only green area left in all of old town
Chanhassen. Once it's gone, it's gone. There are no other green areas that I can think of
in old town Chanhassen. Thank you.
Sacchet: Thank you very much. Anybody else? Please come forward.
Judy Schmieg: How long do I get?
Sacchet: Until you're done.
Judy Schmieg: Thank you. First I have a couple questions.
Sacchet: Name and address please.
Judy Schmieg: Judy Schmieg, 200 West 771h Street. And then I would like to ask some
questions of the people that are here that have come up in the procedure, and then I'd like
to comment on some of the school issues.
Sacchet: Okay, let's get going.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. Is this the first public hearing on this?
Sacchet: I would think so.
Al -Jaffa On this plan.
Aanenson: On the site plan.
Judy Schmieg: Yes or no?
22
Planning Commission9eting — October 5, 2004 •
Sacchet: For the site plan, yes. I mean the public hearing is about the site plan. I'm sure
there have been discussions about this parcels before that I'm aware of.
Judy Schmieg: Is this the first public hearing on this site?
Sacchet: On the site plan, yes. This is a new site plan.
Judy Schmieg: Thank you. Okay. Does the city, let me clarify that. The residents of
Chanhassen still own the property that's described as Lot 1, Block 1, Old Village Hall.
Miller: Yes.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. Sothis is the time and the place for those citizens, if they're going
to sell a piece of property, to come and have an opinion about their piece of property. Is
that correct?
Aanenson: That's not correct.
Sacchet: No it's not.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. ...just one more. Can we just back up then? That's not correct.
Aanenson: No. This is the Planning Commission is here to decide whether or not this
site plan meets the zoning code. That's what this hearing's about. Not to decide, this
body does not have the jurisdiction to decide whether or not this piece of property should
be sold.
Judy Schmieg: Okay. So can you just tell us citizens that keep waiting for
communication for all of this, how we do this? We wait for a public hearing. We have
160 signatures. We wait until it's told and then it is our property. We should at least
have a voice in it. You people are representatives of us. If there's 160 people that don't
want to sell this, like how do we do this then?
Lillehaug: You need to contact your, the IDA which is our City Council. We don't
represent the ownership of the land period. We up here don't other than.
Judy Schmieg: Is your recommendation then that the, that we need to do it at the City
Council level? So wait til all of this is done and then come back from the neighborhoods
and say to the City Council, we don't want to sell this piece of property. It's very small.
It's 1 acre. We don't want to sell it. And the city hopefully, council would listen to the
people because that's what they're there for.
Lillehaug: I would hope so.
23
Planning Commission feting — October 5, 2004 •
Sacchet: There is no reason why you can't contact the mayor or City Council at this
point. About this, since you have that concern. Because I understand where you're at.
Judy Schmieg: I'm a single citizen. There's a public hearing. We, you tell us right away
when we come they can't decide anything.
Aanenson: No, that's not what I said. Let me just clarify again what the Planning
Commission's role is. The Planning Commission by law has to process an application
within so many days and make a recommended.
Judy Schmieg: I read that.
Aanenson: Right, so that's what their role is.
Judy Schmieg: I know that. So you tell us right away that that's all their role is. To
approve it. Okay, if everything is done and the city planner approved it, and they've
done everything, there's nothing for them to approve. They're abided by the laws. They
did everything right so they're not, and they can't make any choices whether we think it
should be a Dairy Queen or a school. So that means you're saying they can't tell us, the
citizens that.
Aanenson: Well just to back up. Again, within that zoning district that's probably the
most, the largest number of uses can go in that district. So if it wasn't a daycare, could it
be a liquor store? Yes. Could it be a bar? Yes.
Judy Schmieg: Let me comment to that. In answer to Justin's question. Bethany I think
you asked Justin, what happens if they move out in 10 years? Justin nicely said they
can't because we put in there that they can't open up a Quick and Easy and a liquor store.
And they can't do that, right?
Miller: That's right.
Judy Schmieg: No Justin, they did that to us. Exactly that. They said nothing will go in
there. Now it's a park. That's exactly what they told us. Just like you're telling Bethany
that we won't let it. We put that in there they can't sell it to a liquor store or... so that's a
frustration that the city is meeting right now. The other thing is, if it's a school, if it's a
school, is it charter? It's in a daycare. It's a daycare. It's 6 weeks to 6 years. They go to
school at 6 years old. This is a daycare. And it should, is it licensed by Minnesota, here
in Chanhassen that this is a daycare. It's a New Horizon. It has all the same issues New
Horizon, everybody else has. Another thing, if you do take wrought iron gates for
children, have you ever seen a head hit against a wrought iron railing? With 134 kids,
you want them to climb up 4 feet so they can hang on the railing and smash their head.
134 kids. That doesn't make sense. Why would you even care? Then when you stick
them right on traffic, I went by there at 5:00 today too, and unless you put a semaphore
light across from Frontier Dinner Theaters to let those people out, people will never get
out and you'll back up traffic to 101 because I stopped my car to see how long it took. I
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Planning Commissioniketing — October 5, 2004 •
just pretended and killed the engine. And how quickly I could back up traffic coming off
of 5. This is not the place for this particular thing and I agree with you. There is nothing
wrong with a daycare. St. Hubert's, new St. Hubert's has a front parcel and a back
parcel. They have playgrounds. They have traffic control. They have parking spaces.
You have 31 spots. That doesn't even include staff parking.
Sacchet: Okay, that was the comment part?
Judy Schmieg: But I'll let someone else, so that everyone can get a chance.
Sacchet: Alright, thanks Judy. Appreciate your speaking up. We have somebody else.
Chris Thompson: My name is Chris Thompson. I don't live in Chanhassen but I
represent Remax Action West, which is an adjoining parcel. And I have two issues that I
just want to bring to your attention. One has to do with the traffic, and I guess if we can
have a camera on here. This is the entrance to Remax right here. We have a perpetual
easement to get into Remax. I'll illustrate which lines in that direction. And my
comment is that what we would like to see is in the re -writing of this easement which is
occurring, to lose one of the spots in the parking lot and to cut back on this existing island
here. To make the entrance into Remax a more reasonable entrance as opposed to kind of
being in the back of this parking lot as it exists today. The reason that that ended up
being like it is is because of the existing island that's in that parking lot. I was not
involved, my father-in-law Darrell Berger who is the owner of Remax and I wasn't
involved in the writing of this easement but I believe, from what I understand, the idea
was not to disturb that island at that time and that's how we ended up with an easement as
we did.
Sacchet: So you're proposing that that would change that island.
Chris Thompson: What I'm proposing is to change this island, and if one looks at, the
easement is supposed to be 26 feet wide and it actually requires, if you ever use this
parking lot, and I have a few times, to turn in, in this direction, many times you're going
to run over the curb here. The turning radius is too sharp and it would not be something
that I think the architect would plan on in the absence of this island being here to begin
with. And the way I've laid it out, it would just require one parking spot to be lost, which
based on the parking count that I see is, as it was laid out in the site plan, and I could
have an older site plan but my copy suggests that the school needs 28 spaces. And if the
church is shown with 7, although I think it's the church and the city hall, if you lose one
space, on my count you get 33 spaces. And you had mentioned 51 just a few minutes
ago, I'm not sure where that came from so I just thought I'd point that out. So anyway,
my main point is, has to do with the easement as it exists with the city right now. There
is a written easement that's described. I'd like to see, I don't have a problem or we don't
have a problem with this development and contrary to some of the other comments, you
know I can take it or leave it. But if there's going to be a change.
Sacchet: Like to improve that.
25
Planning Commission ting — October 5, 2004 •
Chris Thompson: I'd like to see a more reasonable entrance to Remax. It wasn't really
the entrance that we had hoped for, my father-in-law had hoped for to begin with. I know
that. And so there were some accommodations made at that time. The other thing has to
do with signage and we would propose that there be some common signage associated
with Remax with the proposed school and the church and/or city hall in this general area
to help guide people as to where they're going. So we would propose that if there is to be
some kind of stand alone monument sign or something, that it be a common sign.
Sacchet: Okay, good point.
Chris Thompson: And that's my comment.
Sacchet: Appreciate it very much, thank you.
Lillehaug: Can I ask.
Sacchet: Yeah, go ahead Steve.
Lillehaug: It doesn't look like they're touching that portion of the parking lot. I don't
know, are you willing to pay them money to redo their parking lot in that area? Just a
question.
Chris Thompson: The removal of that small amount of island is not going to cost very
much, and we would be willing to share in that cost of just that.
Lillehaug: Okay.
Sacchet: That's fair, thank you. Anybody else wants to address this item. Public hearing
is still open. If nobody else wants to speak up, yes. We've got a retake here from our
friend Judy. You going to ask me how long you have this time again? Alright, go ahead.
Judy Schmieg: You are the Planning Commission.
Sacchet: Yes, we are the Planning Commission.
Judy Schmieg: And that is important for the planning of how things work together in this
city. And to have no say other than to meet the regulations doesn't seem right either.
That there should be a lot of thought put into planning and I think I was commenting to
you Sharmeen, when you take a senior citizen high rise with the age of 73, average age
73 and you put a bicycle shop next to it, how great you know that is for those senior
citizens to go to the bike shop. When you put a Houlihan's where they love to eat
because they can't hear anybody is like that whole planning is an issue in this town. We
have become a strip mall. There are 15 strip malls in this town and what, 19 banks are
we up to or something.
26
Planning Commission4keting — October 5, 2004 •
Sacchet: They're definitely sprouting.
Judy Schmieg: ... you are the Planning Commission. It is important. It's very important
that you have, and we've worked hard to keep that little bit of green space and if that
takes planning to do it, then it should be done. Coffee shop, we haven't started there.
Sacchet: Yeah, well you want a Dairy Queen there?
Judy Schmieg: It should be stayed with a park.
Sacchet: Ahight, thank you very much. So do we have any last takers here for the public
hearing? Seeing nobody, I'm going to close the public hearing. Bring it back to the
commission for discussion. Comments. Steve, you want to start?
Lillehaug: I have a couple questions first. Is this land zoned for the use of the, what
they're?
Aanenson: Yes
Lillehaug: Okay. And then maybe a question to Justin. Were there previous, was there
previous verbiage attached to this property when the city bought it that precludes this
use? Putting a school or a daycare on this property or that said it was going to be a park
from here on out.
Miller: No. As far as I understand, this land that used to be Pony Express, Pauly's Bottle
Shop, I think John Pryzmus had an office there. So they call it the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus
property. As I understand there were no restrictions on the land when we bought it.
Lillehaug: When the city bought it there was no restrictions?
Miller: There were no restrictions.
Sacchet: Where's the notion that this would be park come from?
Miller: I do not know if it's, I don't know that it's ever been decided by the city that it
will be a park. If that's the case, I would stand corrected if somebody can produce those
records but.
Sacchet: It's something I think should be researched.
Miller: There might have been a recommendation from the park commission.
Aanenson: There was a recommendation. The City Council never acted on that
recommendation.
Sacchet: So there was a notion but it wasn't implemented.
27
Planning Commission ting — October 5, 2004 •
Aanenson: The park commission discussed it...
Sacchet: Okay, as a possibility.
Aanenson: ...but the City Council never said we're going to re -guide it open space as a
park. It was never rezoned or anything like that.
Sacchet: So in terms of the comprehensive plan, in terms of the zoning, it was always
considered full commercial.
Miller: It is not denoted as a park in our park system. It doesn't have a name as a park.
Judy Schmieg: Heritage Square.
Aanenson: And it's commercially zoned. All our other parks are zoned parks/open
space. So this still has a commercial zoning to it.
Sacchet: Okay. Okay, did you have some wisdom since you've seen this all unroll in
front of your eyes?
Dick Mingo: Could I add one other thing?
Sacchet: Real quick, yeah.
Dick Mingo: Originally the business places that were located were, the spot we're
talking about of course, were I think picked up through condemnation, am I not correct
on that?
Aanenson: That's correct.
Dick Mingo: And it was my understanding when that occurred we would not replace,
you eliminate a business place that had been there since 1933 and now replace it with
another business place. I think that's dirty pool when we do stuff like that and I know
time has changed things but still, as I recall going back historically, the only thing that
was ever proposed for that property, other than a park possibly, was a library and they
decided it's not big enough for a library to go in there.
Sacchet: Too small for a library, yeah. Especially the size of library we got. Alright.
This turned out more lively. I think we can compete with Chaney and Edwards here
tonight. Alright, we have comments and discussion here. Kurt, you want to.
Papke: In general I support this. This seems to satisfy all the zoning regulations,
requirements, comprehensive plan. I understand the issues the citizens have had with a
perception, or an expectation that this would be a park but that's really up to the City
Council to decide. I think the request brought forth by the Remax representative were
0
Planning Commissionteting — October 5, 2004 •
very reasonable. I think the suggestion of, for sharing of the costs of the island certainly
makes sense. I can see where that could be a real issue, particularly with all the slopes
and so forth, and I liked kind of the idea of the common signage too. Has that been
considered? Is that?
Aanenson: Yes. We've talked to him about that.
Papke: Okay. Okay, so other than that I have no real issues. I have some concerns about
the aesthetics of this, given that we're going to see a lot of roof here as you come down
78`s Street but I think the EDA has decided that this is how they want to develop that
property and I think that's how it goes.
Lillehaug: Well said.
Sacchet: Anything more to add Dan?
Keefe: Yeah, I generally, you know I don't think we have jurisdiction over getting into
whether it's a park or not and I think they seemed to have worked with you guys really
well and seem to have a pretty well designed building and I don't know that we really
have anything but really to support it because I think they've done a pretty good job in
regards to the planning issues. I did have just a couple of questions, just so I can clarify.
The area outside of the play areas that's within the fence on either side of the building,
what is the surface?
Aanenson: Grass.
Keefe: Is it grass?
Aanenson: Grass, except for the area underneath the play structures...
Keefe: Okay, so it is grass.
Aanenson: Correct.
Keefe: I guess in terms of lighting of the building, any sort of after hours. Is it going to
be a well lit area or what was your?
Al -Jaffa Well there is existing light fixtures out there today. They are adding a few light
fixtures on the building itself and that is denoted on the light plan that you have. They
are not adding any new fixtures to the overall site. You've got lights on West 78°i as well
as Great Plains Boulevard and I think there are five fixtures between the plaza and
between Village Hall and this site.
Keefe: Yeah, even one of my thoughts is just you know as you're driving down, it may
be after dark and you know, how's it going to change. I mean we've done a lot of work
with the roof, but you know are we now going to have lighting in places which is going
29
Planning Commissionating — October 5, 2004 •
to kind of detract from some of the changes that we made in terms of that? And they
have to come back with more specifics on lighting but I just kind of want to bring it up as
maybe a concern that we just want to make sure that we.
Aanenson: Follow through.
Keefe: So, that's it.
Tjomhom: My comments, well the first was going to be directed to some of the people
that were here but they left so I can't. I was going to say that I am sympathetic to how
they feel. I drive by there all the time and I like the open space in a perfect world. It
would be nice to have a gazebo or like he said, a memorial to the pioneers or something,
but that's not my job here tonight. My job is to review this site plan and see if it meets
the standards of the city and I think it's a good use for that area. We have a school across
the street and I think it fits in well, and so I also, I see nothing wrong with this. So that's
it.
Sacchet: Alright. I don't really have much to add. We have to be clear what our scope is
of what we're dealing with and it's a good proposal. I think it's compatible with the
surrounding. It fits with the comprehensive plan. With the zoning. Seems like an
extensive effort went into working with staff and making it as much suitable as possible
in every which way. The concern of the residents about trying to make this a park is
really not our decision here. I mean it's something that City Council's going to have to
look at. So with that I'm willing to take a motion.
Lillehaug: I'll make a motion the Planning Commission recommends approval of Site
Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as shown on the plans
dated received September 3, 2004, subject to the following conditions 1 through 18.
Sacchet: We have a motion. Is there a second?
Papke: Second.
Lillehaug moved, Papke seconded that the Planning Commission recommends
approval of Site Plan 04-32 for an 8,068 square foot building to house a school as
shown on the plans dated received September 3, 2004, subject to the following
conditions:
1. Applicant shall preserve all existing trees south of the grading limits and outside of
the property lines. Any trees removed will be replaced at a rate of 2:1 diameter
inches.
2. Applicant shall move the red maple shown in the southeastern corner of the site to a
location within the grading limits. A revised landscape plan shall be submitted to the
city.
kP
Planning Commission0eting — October 5, 2004 0
3. Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will have to be obtained including
but not limited to the MPCA and Watershed District.
4. Add detail sheet showing City Detail Plate Nos. 1002, 1006, 2001, 3101, 3102, 5201,
5203, 5214 and 5300.
5. Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges are applicable for the new building. The
2004 trunk hookup charge is $1,458 for sanitary sewer and $2,814 for watermain.
Sanitary sewer and watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the
parcel at the time of building permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the
number of SAC units assigned by the Met Council.
6. Prior to building permit issuance, all plans must be signed by a professional civil
engineer registered in the state of Minnesota.
7. Any retaining wall over 4 feet in height must be designed by a Structural Engineer
registered in the State of Minnesota and require a permit from the Building
Department. A 4 -foot safety fence must be included on top of the wall where
adjacent to a pedestrian walkway.
8. On the site plan, revise the handicap parking stall from 9 -inch to 9 -feet.
9. On the utility plan:
- Revise the sanitary sewer pipe class from SDR35 to SDR26.
- Revise the watermain pipe from CL55 to CL52.
10. Show all existing easements on the plans.
11. Revise the plans to provide a minimum of 1.5 feet of elevation difference between the
HE of the building and the emergency overflow elevations of the side yard areas.
12. Storm sewer sizing calculations for a 10 -year storm event must be submitted prior to
building permit approval
13. Tree protection fencing must be installed around all trees in the construction zone that
will remain.
14. All roof top equipment shall be screened.
15. The applicant shall enter into a site plan agreement with the city and provide the
necessary financial securities.
16. Fire Marshal Conditions:
a. The building will be built to the 2000 International Fire Code as adopted by the
State of Minnesota not the NFPA 1012000 Life Safety Code.
31
Planning Commissionkting — October 5, 2004 •
b. Builder must comply with the following Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire
Prevention policies (copies enclosed):
• 01-1990 regarding fire alarm systems
• 04-1991 regarding notes to be included on all site plans
• 07-1991 regarding pre -fire plan drawings.
• 29-1992 regarding premise identification
• 36-1994 regarding proper water line sizing
• 40-1995 regarding fire protection systems
• 34-1993 regarding water service installation
c. The 4 -inch ductal iron pipe as shown on page C4-1 should be no smaller than 6 -
inch per NFPA 13 Sect. 9-1.3.
17. Building Official conditions:
a. The building is required to be protected by automatic fire extinguishing systems.
b. The plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
c. The accessible parking spaces must be located on the shortest possible route to the
buildings served.
d. Roof drain piping must be air tested within 10 feet of the building.
e. Detailed occupancy related requirements will not be reviewed until complete
plans are submitted for a building permit.
L The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as
soon as possible to discuss plan review and permit procedures.
18. The applicant must obtain a sign permit prior to erecting the signs on site. A detailed
sign plan incorporating the method of lighting, acceptable to staff should be provided
prior to requesting a sign permit."
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
Sacchet: We wish you luck with this. Excellent project.
Lillehaug: Could I add a comment to this?
Sacchet: Yes. This is going to council. We do want to summarize.
Lillehaug: I just want to make a note that, at least in my opinion, my support wasn't for
the actual use of this land for this building versus leaving it open space. It was strictly
looking at the site plan because I'm not sure if I support it or not leaving it open space or
not so it was strictly looking at the site plan and if it adhered to the city comp plan and
ordinances.
Sacchet: Yeah, in summary for our council I think we have to be very clear that we look
at this as a site plan. How it fits with the ordinances. The comprehensive plan. With the
uses in the surrounding, which in those context it seems a very good fit. However the
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Planning Commission*xting — October 5, 2004 •
concern that's been brought up very strongly from the local residents that they would
prefer this to be an open area, a park, possibly a memorial or something like that. I think
that's a consideration that has merit but that's not our scope to decide upon so that's
going to be up to the City Council to look at, which I would hope has been looked at to
some extent when they made the decision to consider this. So to some extent I would
expect that this is a little bit of a done deal as such, which then poses another difficulty
which was brought up by the residents that felt they had not any opportunity to input into
that process. I mean the fact that they have a list of signatures of 150 or 60 long certainly
shows that there would have been a voice from the citizen side that should be heard, and
maybe there should be an effort made in retrospect to put that into the picture and see
how that can be duly considered in the process. So I would very much want to encourage
the City Council to consider that but that's not our job here as Planning Commission.
Anything more we want to add to the summary for council? Alright, that's it for this one.
Thank you very much.
PUBLIC HEARING:
AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 20 OF THE CITY CODE REGARDING DESIGN
STANDARDS FOR MULTI -FAMILY HOUSING.
Public Present:
Name Address
Rick Dorsey
Krista Novack
1551 Lyman Boulevard
Town & Country Homes, Eden Prairie
Kate Aanenson presented the staff report on this item.
Papke: Along those lines Kate, unfortunately I wasn't here last week for the Town and
Country materials but if you look at what you have here in place and you look at the very
first one we're going to see here, how does it line up? How close are they coming? You
know are we kind of.
Aanenson: Yeah, well they presented an excellent presentation to the Planning
Commission at the work session the last time and actually we asked them to hold off until
we came in with the design standards, and actually I think the Planning Commission at
that first review, I'll let Dan and Steve comment if they want to say something different
but I think we were pretty pleased as introducing a different product. Looking at the mix.
The pitch of the roof. Open space. That project now proposes actually public open
space. Looking at some of the natural features. Orientation of buildings. Some of those
things that the current ordinance doesn't address orientation so I believe that that is
moving in the direction that we want to see on the rest of the project. So very pleased.
Papke: ... effect on some of the developers.
Aanenson: Correct.