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1993 09 23CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 23, 1993 Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT; Mike Mason, Gary Boyle, Don Chmiel- and /'un Bohn - MEMBERS ABSENT: Charlie Robbins STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashwonh, Executive Director APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated August 19, 1993 as presented. All voted in favor, except Yum Bohn who abstained, and the motion carded. Chmiel: I'd like to have some discussion in regard to.some of the questions that were asked by Councilman Wing and I didn't see any retort to some of those que~ons in the adwlnistrative section. Will we be receiving those shortly? Ashworth: As you're aware of, Todd is out of town so I was responsible for getting the agenda out and quite frankly I didn't have these minutes at that time. So I'll have them for you next agenda. . Mason: He did raise some good points and I'm kind of thinking that some of this may come up under old business with Vision 2000 process and update of '93 goals. I think we could spend some time discussing that then. Bohn: Any other questions? Boyle: I agree. VISITOR PRF_~ENTATIONS: None. CONSIDER AWARD OF BID~ FOR ~ REMODELING OF ~ HANUS FACILITY. Ashworth: We opened the bids this m.~ornin§ for this pwject. Bids ranged from a low of... Chmiel: No, we were to get the cards, it indicates in the memorandtun. The bids would be received at 9:00 a.m. on September 23rd and staff would present bid re, suits at Thursday night's meeting. $160,000.00. We talked $160,000.00 all along. Who came up with the add one, Alternate I for another $981.007 Mason: Oh, that's for the fence? Chmiek Yeah. Drop curb and concrete wall I don't know if you've driven back through there but the...only went down to the 79th Street portion where Heunepin County is adding out the new TH 101 and mm onto ?gth. And I drove inw that building and I saw curbs that were up that high and you're driving down there, you're going to have to find out. Mason: Now I haven't been back in there. Chmiel: That grade is just absolutely unreal. I don't know how they're going to get in and out... Ashworth: Seven bids were rex~ved on this project going from a low of $166,000.00 to a high of $200,000.00. The engineer's estimate was $160,000.00. I'm trying to figure out why. There appeared to be some concern by bidders starting this late in the fall and being required to have it completed _this winter. We believe that that prod~ some higher bids than what we had anticipated. On the other side is w reject all bids. There is a ~ood that you could see an increase in materials...1994 so any cost savings because of the reluctance to bid this late, may be wiped out as a result of higher material cos~ If we go with the base bid and Bituminous Cons~on is the low bidder. We checked on them. They're a good contractor. The alternate bid represents enclosing the trash enclosures. And here's where we get inW more of a difficult issue because Bituminous ConsUuction showed that as $851.00 and by fights then they would be low, whether or not you wok the base bid and the alternate or not. However, in going through the extension of their individual quantity bids, they put in there a price per lineal foot for some concrete wozk at $90.00...That means that this bid is actually $3,600.00 instead of the $851.00. We called them. We asked them if this bid was c~recc They said it was. We have told them about the, we showed them the $90.00 cost estimate. They stated no. That was not correct It was $9.00. All of the other bidders bid the work, the concrete anywhere from $10.00 to $15.00. The very highest was $25.00. It is totally illogical to think that they had meant $90.00. When you do the extension using $8.00 and come up with $851.75. After going through this with the City Attorney, it was his position that it was an obvious error and that the decibel point was in the wrong place and that all of the extmu/ons fie out to the $8/Jl.00. That any type of a court decision would be in favor of Bituminous Construction- So again I guess the two issues back to you is one, should we reject all bids and look to allowing consuuction to go into 1994. And then secondly, do you agree that the low bidder is Bituminous Consulting and wish to go with just the base bid plus the alternate. Chrniel: Mr. Chairmen. Bohn: Yes. Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sepl~mber 23, 1993 Chmicl: Don, is there any real rush for us to have thi, accom?lished this year? Ashworth: I think from the tenants have been asking that we repair the I~ilding. As is Brad... Mason: Brad, would you come in here please. Ashworth: We're in the process of considering award of bids for the wozk over at the Hanus. The question is, one of the relunctancies..Jow bidders was concern that the specifications as written required the work be done in 1993. And given the time of year and the snow storm last year on October 31st, at issuc is if wc reject all bids...the contractor to go into 1994, we may get a better bid. The question asked by the liRA, is there any reason that we need to award this. I started to say because of the tenants have been asking for this. The question is how rambunctious are they. Brad Johnson: Well I think from a parking point of view they'd like to get that slraighten out. You know the surfacing. And then we thought for now that we would ~ it this year...just the resin'racing this year and then the balance was going to be done next year. I mean that's what we were anticipating and I told them. So the only really antsy person would be, from our end of it is that Toll has just has a deal on their lease that it's sll done and paid for...and that's the only real direct pressure. So you could put it off and I don't think you'd have any problems. Or you could let the guy try to figure out when they're going to do it but maybe encourage them to do the resuneacing this year. Chmiel: Yeah, I think one of my concerns is that I've seen too many projects going in later pan of September, even the early pan of Septern_l~r or early August with a later in service date. And running into more problems than we really care to have. My concerns are, would we better to reject all these bids Wnlght at this time and go into spring. I'm thinking we can probably maybe even get betl~ bids even though the costs, as Don indicated, could possibly go up. And you always figure about a 10% increase but they may be very hungry at that time and as there's less and less work being done all over. Brad $ohnson: ...so part of it can be done this year and pan of it next year. Chrnicl: No one has bid it, I don't know. I haven't seen the actual bids. Brad ~ohnson: I was up in Duluth and talking to their engineering department, and they're geuing really good bids for that sequence of events because then the bidder knows he's got work in May and June. You know...It's kind of interesting. If they can start this year and they know they've got something to complete next year, I think they were getting some preuy Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 good prices. Ashworth: Thc City Attorney would have a problem. Let's assume that we've awarded the low bidder and said well we'll let you carry it through spring. Brad Johnson: He'd have to mt}id it. Yes, I agree with that. Ashworth: Thc only other alternative would be if I could take a look at it and adminislxatively we could authorize a contract up to $15,000.00. If that would cover costs of doing thc asphalt work. With thc intent then that the rest of it would then be rebid and done next year. I have no idea ff $15,000.00 would take care of it or not lake care of it. If we lose the $15,000.00, because I wouldn't care to do that. If I coold put it out and then have it all tore out. Chmiel: That's one of my concerns. If we did lay that now, would that new tar be dug up at all? Ashworth: Well, I would make the assumption that if you would instruct me to pursue that, that I would make sure that it would not be tore up before we would let any... Boyle: I'd like to ask Brad a question when he's done. Brad, in your opinion, isn't it more likely that these individuals would be bus/er in the spring than they are in the fall? Therefore the costs could be higher right for the labor. In your opinion_ I'm just asking your opinion_ Brad Johnson: Who knows. All the bids are supposed to be great right now because a lot of people aren't busy you know but right between now and getting something done between now and October-November when everybody's trying to clean up. We've got a deal, you know the same people are all back lo§§ed because of the weather so they don't have much time between now and November. Not because you haven't gotten some of the work done, just like. we're seeing around here. It's the same guy when you think about it. There's only one asphalt plant, or two that feed this whole area so we've just got to find somebody that doesn't have a lot of work. So from our end of it, thc operational side up there is, if we get it resurfaced, there are portions of that, and not a lot, that gets kind of messy during the winter time. Between the frosts. And we can straighten that out. Other than that, I'm sure... Chmicl: Just by re, surfacing wouldn't correct the problems of thc heaving that you'd have within thc road in itself. As you're mentioning, there's some areas that are a problem. Brad John,son: ~ aren't too many Don_ It's just most of them are up close to the Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 building. They're not resurfacing just to be resurfacing. I don't think we're talking more than a couple of weeks of work up there. That's what I was told. If in fact we need to get the concrete work done and all that other stuff done, that's a different ~ I'm not familiar enough. Fred, or one of those guys could tell us the process~ What is logically going to happen over there. And I don't know. But I don't see any problems in rebi_'dding it and between now and the time you rebid it, maybe we could t:ind o~t What the sequence could be. If it could be done in the fall I don't know. Audience: ...whatever I need to do between the time I put it down and the time you seal it. They're putting it down now and sealing it in the s]~ring. Brad Johnson: You've got to realize there's 8 inches of asphalt there now. We're not moving onW something that's got real bad, bad base. Bohn: Don, how long does that whole process take of redoing that7 Ashworth: I think this work can be done relatively quickly. Within a one month period of time. At issue is, you're at the first of October now. Again we've seen snow on October 31st the last two years. Brad Johnson: And lately all the asphalt plants have been closed by November 1st. Clayton $ohnson: November 15th. Brad Johnson: Yeah, November 15th's the htest. Mason: City Council learned from 1V[innewashta Parkway not to start projects too late. Chmiel: Frontier as well Mason: Yeah. I wonder if we're cutting this a little close. And maybe it would be worth it to see if we could take care of the resudacing problem now and if Fred or whoever says we're not going to have to rip that stuff all up again. Ashworth: Well as I understand Fred. We can get thc notices back in the newsp~ and literally be in a position to award in 2 weeks. If we're just going to modify the completion date from December 31st to June 1st and therefore if the guy can in fact work through mid_ November, it would be done this year. But if for whatever reason we have snow fall on October 31st, he'd have the fight to move part of the worlr into the spring of next year. Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Bohn: Sounds reasonable. Chmiel: I guess if he puts that at the start at the project, to get that resm'facin§ done immediately but if Nred says that it's going to cause a problem, then I still have a little ¢oncel'n. Ashworth: You're certainly making guesses but I really believe that if we rejected all bid~ instructed staff to re-advertise, meaning we'd have to call a special meeting in approximately 2 weeks. Make the award at that time. I personally think that the project will be done before the end of the year. But again, if some portions of it can't be done because of snow fall, he would have the legal authority to hold that work off until April or May. Chrniel: Yeah. Of course then I keep thinking that there's not going to be any mud they're going to be driving around with and people getting in and out and going into those businesses. Just strictly the re, surfacing aspect of it and as Don has explained, that might be, that'd be a little more logical. Mason: I'm okay with that. That makes sense. Boyle: I agree. Chmiel: So you'd like a motion as w. Ashworth: To reject all bids and authorize staff to re-advertise. Mason: With the stall concerns or conditions or wha~,-ver. I will mike that motion Mr. Chairman. To reject the bids and have staff re-offer and check some more stuff out and see what happens in 2 weeks. Bohn: Is there a second? Boyle: I'll second Mason moved, Boyle seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority reject all bids for the parking lot improvements for the Hanus Building and authorize staff to re- advertise for bids. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF VISION 2002 PROCESS AND UPDATE ON 1993 GOALS. Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Ashworth: Todd has woflr~ with the commission a little closer than myself as far as the 1993 goals. Hopefully I can respond to questions that you might have or whether...in place or not. The second part of it I was more involved with is the Vision 2002. And at stake here or at issue is really one of trying to work back with the Bill M~ over at the University in preparing a plan that represents the goals that we had hoped to accom?lish inclutling details of land use, entry monuments, whatever else during the time frame that the HRA would continue in existence. I think the type of questions limt were raised by Councilman Wing are a good example that we really don't have in place something that people look and say oh yes. This is a goal that we've been trying to accomplish. This is the plan that we're working to accomplish. As we get new members to Phnning Commission and something is brought back to thcm, I can see where it's easy for a commissioner to say well, where'd this come from? I don't understand this. Where in fact we may have set that as a goal or something we had wanmd to accomplish 2 or 3 years ago. It had been presented to the Planning Commission and now we're actually in a stage of implementation and people Idn,q of feel like it's a whole new itcrn. Thcn if we had part of that, even with the entry monumcnts and how long were we working on those? At least 4 or 5 years. I know that some of the...had gone back to some of the other commissions from...look at and say yes, this is what we'd like to accomplish. So that's really what Vision 2002 is all about. We hope to be able to get Bill's efforts and as you've noticed, a lot of these under Hoi~ngton's stationary. Fred is woddng as an arm to Bill Morrish in this whole process and Bill's schedule this summer just prohibited him from taking an active role in that process. Mason: Do we get to start discussing now7 Is now the time? Bohn: Yep. Now is the time to do it. Mason: Well, I've been talking for quite some time about giving the housing in Housing and Redevelopment Authority. I'm concerned that none of our goals deal with some way of figuring out how to make Chanhassea a little more affordable city for many of the people that work in here to live in. And I want to be able to talk, to discuss, figure out what, if anything, and I've got to believe there is something we can do about that. I'm very concerned about the number of people that we have working in this city that cannot afford to live in this city. I would like to know what the HRA can do about that. And I don't know if that fslls under HRA goals or Vision 2002. I think it's probably a combination_ But I really would like us to take a look at that for one thing. Bohn: Is there grant money or federal money available for senior housing? Ashworth: The senior housing is really one of two fashions. A project which would use tax credits and in an instance like that, you'd have a NSP type that would actually be buying Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 those tax credits. They would, you're typically talking about tax credits might be worth $2 million face value. It would be worth that in the larger corn?any that could use those and that would produce the equivalent of about a million dollars in cash that could then be applied towards the project itself. And you would be looking. The other way would be to issue what is refen~ to as essential purpose bonds. Both those account were about the same type of thing. I would anticipate that within, by the time of your next meeting, Mr. McCombs will have complet~ his work. I believe you're aware the city used part of their community development block grant funds to survey the community to delErmine what type of needs are out there. And then we employed Skip McCombs to analyze which of the alternative sites might be best suited for senior housing as well as what of the alternative forms of financing potentially could be used. And I would anticipate that by your next meeting that that report will be ready and will be in front of you and similarly in front of the Planning Commission and back to City Council So I really would like to see, or hope that the foundation as to what it is we're trying to accom?lish, in terms of senior housing, will be in place before the end of the year with hopefully construction being able to start next ~ring. Boyle: Jim, you raised a question and Don you replied to senior housing but I believe Mike, you were raising the issue regarding low income housing rather than senior housing. Mason: And I think that's going to be done of the hang-ups. I'm not neces~y talking about low income. I'm talking about middle income. I mean when we had that discussion before with, I don't know, Oak Pond or whaler. I mean if my wife wasn't working, I would have qualified for what kind of subsidy was it7 We had that, do you remember what that discussion was so I'm not, you know I'm not saying "project housing" or anything like that. I just know there are a number of people that are workin§ in this city at an hourly wage that can't afford to live in this city. And what, the average price is $120,000.00. $130,000.00 now. Maybe even higher than that. Chmiel: You're a little. Mason: How much Brad? Brad Johnson: We haven't had any multiples for sale but it's been up in the $160's. Mason: That's a lot of money for a whole lot of people. Chmiek Not middle income. Mason: No, it's not middle income and I'm not advocating what is it? Not Title IX funds. Whatever the Title is but I think we're kind of at the high end of the mark~ right now and I Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Septm~ber 23, 1993 guess I'd like to know if we think that's a good idea or not. I mean I don't mind the $160,000.00 homes but I'd like to be able to see some other people be able to afford to live in this city wo. And thanks for brining that up Oary. I ~ I think we've got, hopefully we've got senior housing pretty well under way but I think there's some other housing issues we need to address there. I would like to address, I'll put tt that Way. Ashworth: Mr. Chair. One of the primary issues is really one of what are our needs. And to that end, one of the work efforts in light of this whole thing we're looking at is to... ~'j..'-, L.b ~ (There was a tape chan§e at this point in the discussion.) ~r~~9'~ ~' :'~C-'~ :}~ DISCUSSION REGARDING ~ FUTURE SALE OF LOT 4 AND OUTLOT A TO MARKET SQUARE. Brad Johnson: ...to thc Planning Commission and thc City Council process, which is as I said, is normaLly a process we would take. We had to kind of reverse it for a while ~ we have to get your approval, not so much in advance but we know at a certain point everything has to have your approval of the project relative to what it looks like. I think that's basically it. And that's because that's part of the purchase agreement. So I think what we're going through this evening is to present the project to you. We have met with the Planning staff and we feel that most of the planning items are taken care of as far as the site plan is concerned. You know from their point of view, although we have not submitted it. We have Kevin Norby. For those of you on the Planning Commiasion, remember we were trying to include this in your tree program so it would match what you did. We've actually used it for that purpose so we've spent probably 3 months already sort of indirect dealing with the issues at the Planning Commission level So tonight I'd like to present what we will call Market Square IL Basically it's a 10,000 square foot retail bnilding and then a restaurant that would go along with it to be located on that property. And all of this is a permiU~ zoning. And so Bill, do you want to kind of go through the site plan. Bill Brisley is the architect for the Market Square so he can talk more elaborately on how this fits into what we do and also the commnnlty. He's prepared some things for you that might help you in your evaluation. And then what we're looking for is your comments on what you lhink it looks like and how it fits into the overall picture of what we're trying to do there. BilL This is the site plan. Chmieh The other one doem't look too bad either. Look at the monitor... Brad Johnson: The othcr thing was...the same people that arc taking care of the Post Office activities, thc same ~ucracy is going to be in charge of our health plan. Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Bill Brislcy: As Brad told you, this is a ~t of working with a restaurant An actual restaurant and also thc PLanning Commi~ion, we've been working on it for about 6 months and just a simple in-out. This is favorable to this partictda~ restart. It went through many changes to get to this. The parking for the restaurant is based on their use and we'll work with the planning on that I believe it's within city limits and then the retail is basically an office building for shops_At is from the back side, if you look at your colored drawings, it has small windows rather than continuous shop fronts as Market Square does. And about 3/4 of it is...probably going to be office. Hopefully maybe mutll shops on one end and make more offices...but I think we can put doors in at any point. It's got a...and it will work for either use. The vocabulary is basically the same as Market Square. It's wood lap siding up in thc gable above thc windows. Inbetween thc windows. It's got a rock faced block base. And that particular base is the same as Market Square so, and then the gables are basically found ...from here in Chanhassen... The Wendy's restaurant, which is illustrated here, matches in color, but they're not goin§...but matches in color to the Market Square. It has similar, although not the same color but has similar canvas canopies. It's all brick however. It's not wood. This is gray. The light gray of the wood on Market Square. This is the dark gray of the rock faced block base at Market Square. And this green up above is similar, although not the same, as Market Square. That's pretty much, that's about it. It's a pretty simple site plan. Bohn: Are you aware that all the new buildings that size all have gabled roofs? Bill Brisley: We discussed that at great length with Wendy's and they apparently have so much equipment on their roof that it's completely i .mpractical to do that. They have, I think their roof comes in approximately at this level This is all parapet. Right above the canopy is where the roof comes in. So I can't really speak to that, except that I know that fact and that's why they were reluctant to do that. I did not design that. I don't have that much control on that design. But they spoke to me about that when we did have a meeting and they said that it was very, very difFtcuit because they have so much equipment. Chmieh We'll have to talk to big Dave... Boyle: Don, the property west of Target on the comer. Is that not earmarked or agreed for some fast food restaurants also? Ashwarth: Thc Planning Commission and City Council stated that no more than two fast food restaurants could co-exist on that property. Boyle: Thank you. Is any fast food restaurant currently showing interest in that property? 10 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sepl~mber 23, 1993 Brad $ohnson: There are two on that parcel Boyle: Okay. And they are? Brad Johnson: I just know there are two. One of which we turned down. And of. Audience: Why? Brad Johnson: Why did we turn it down7 Because of the use. It was in conflict with Guy's operation. So you can imagine what type it was. So what we had tried to do is not go in direct competition on that outlot with anything that's in Market Square. They also have restrictions from Gateway as to heights of buildings as to what goes on there and also use. There's quite a bit of restrictions that we have to deal with as we §o through. We did have a Wendy's as a pre-approved use in that area. Along with Hardee's and everybody else. Boyle: 8o why not Wendy's there? Brad Johnson: Why? Boyle: Yeah. Brad Johnson: They don't want to go there. Boyle: Ohl Well that makes sense. And they've been pre-empted already by Brand X. Okay. And they don't want to have two Brand X's ar two types, ~ type nnits in the same area. That's, Ryan does that stuff so I can't say who it is or those are. I think in general, until that mad is down there, it's really difficult to do a site plan ar to come here and figure out how that's all going to work. I mean we're just about there and so Ryan has been working with probably 3 ar 4 different types of restaurants. We've got a full service restaurant, liquar ~ everything going in where the hotel is and I think we'll cad up with another family type restaurant in the community like a p_~-in~ ar something like that within thc next 2 to 3 years. Mason: Where do you see that fitting in? Brad Johnson: We're getting to be a pretty big city so normally you have about 10 restaurants. All of our restaurants so far as doing very well I mean they're all performing so there's a demand. Up until this time McDonald's has had really no competition whatsoever. So you can assume one way ar the other over a period of time that we'll end up with a Bakers Square ar one of those types. We probably will not end up with a large 10,000 ll Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 square foot full service Friday's or whatever because the population density i~n't there yet. And they would like to be near a larger shopping center. But these sites, this is a $800,000.00-million dollar invesunent. They have to do a million and five business in order to make the thing work. Each of these has to do that amount of business. A lot of the attraction that they are having is to the fact that we have the Business Park. Our lunch business is pretty good here in this community. So that's the atl~action. We're going to go from an annual shopping visit to 12,000 cars, or visits. Not cars. Visits per month. When the Target opens, to 24,000. And all of those are things that many people realiz~ and normally they like to stop someplace and slowly but surely, thanks to our ~ planning, we have a downtown now where people are interested in being a part of it. One of our concerns is we did not want to put the fast food, we do have a lot of requests for this site but we did not want to put it all in here. And so what we did is, and luckily the temmt that we're working with there is allowing us to build a building that's very similar to the other buildings that we have on Main Street. And if you look at the layout, it's almost identical to bid. A couple...buildings over in here and the roof line and everything are almost the same. The one you're looking at there, if you look at the roof line on this building, it's almost identical to the Medical building. As a matter of fact, it looks identical to Phase II. I told him he didn't have to hire an architect...but it's basically identical to what we've previously approved. It answers your questions as far as the.., concerns. It's got the gabled roof _and things like that There is in the, what we say in the food business, just the problem of dealing with roofs and as you've found out in the Hanus building, you've been flying to come up with, and the only other solution is to put a fake front on it and I think what Wendy's is saying, is they'd like to work. This is almost, I mean there may be some peaks and things they need to add to this because the requirement really is it's supposed to look ~ Market Square. Market Square is not, all the buildings down here are supposed to look like Market Square. Market Square does not have the gabled roof and that's in our development plan. That's in the city conuact. Bohn: I know because we weren't thinking about it at the time and it was developed ahead of tLrne. Or else it probably would have. Brad Johnson: Well I don't know. You know because I think you can't have every roof, all the roofs can't all be the same. So I appreciate what you're saying but in real life a mixture doesn't hurt anything either. Nancy Mancino: But I would ~ to add, I think you can get what you ask for if that's really a condition what you want. When I was just 2 days ago at Centennial Lakes, going through that development on France Avenue off of 494. Between 494 and 100 and you go in there and there's an Office Max, there's a Computer City, there's a pizTa place. There is a McDonalds in there and it does not look like a traditional McDonakis. I mean it is, it's got the brick front and Santa Fe interior. It is a completely different McDonalds than I have ever 12 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 seen anyway but yet they wanl~l to be in there. Because they wanted to be in there and that location, they would do whatever they needed to architecturally to fit in with that whole devclopment, which is a wonderfully su~ devclopment area. Whatever we want, we Audience: ...and I can't remember but it seems to me that it does have a front... Nancy Mancino: Well it's big long buildings and kind of comes out in an L shape. But some of the comer ones...almost looks like a tepee kind of a roof except it's done very nice with materials and everything but I would encourage all of you to go out there and just take a drive and look at that because it does have some fiat roofs but it's combined with some of the other kinds of things and it's very effective. ' Brad Johnson: You've got to ~ that's the ~ shopping strip mall in the city. They're currently getting $20.00 a square foot which is double what any merchant can afford in Chanhassen. And they had tremendous assistance flxrm the city on that project. Audience: Well I think you should look at that and see what are some of the positive things and take some of the positive things and do it in a way that maybe doesn't cost you... Brad Johnson: This particular building is all brick. It's got all the things that you were asking for that we've never had before. We haven't had an all brick building downtown in the past. And the only thing they're dealing with is, they have a high parapet here so you can't see any of the equipment. The question is, can they cover the equipment. Because if they don't have the equipment on the roof, then it has to go on the ground. Nancy Mancino: And then how is that done? Brad Johnson: Yeah, and that's a touchy so what they're saying is, present it this way. Yes, they do have flexibility but I think you have to kind of, I'm not from Wendy's, okay. We have to go through the Planning Commission process, and we're aware of that and there is a concern about the design on this corner that we have built into it and that's why we went with the gabled roof on the building that's on the main street Remember this is the 25,000 square feet building that's not on Mafl~ Square. And probably there'd be no problem, as Bill and I understand, if we didn't have to deal with the equipment that would have to go on the roof. Bohn: Have you seen the Hardee's in Redwing? Brad Johnson: That's an old building. That's remodeled. 13 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Chmiel: It's the old railroad lm'minal. Boyle: Brad some of the, on Market Square, the shops. The retail. There are some gables that are kind of fronts there, are they not? That Lind of gave the opinion. It's not really covering the roof but it kind of breaks. It's either several peaks. I don't mean gables. Brad lohnson: Remember we're in the middle of...of this. Right now we've said that we can break thi~ up and add, I mean if Bill had a chance, which we will okay. All we're saying is, this can be modifl~ This is the/r first blush at it and from their point of view, they would just like to keep it fiat and go with whatever else. I'm sure, and Bill's not the archi~t but we could modify this...and we can probably handle. Bohn: ...On the sides. Both sides. Brad Johnson: Yeah I know and it's a nuisance. Bohn: But it's covered, screened and shrubs around it. Mason: Mr. Chairman? I think to some extent talking about those kinds of issues right now is almost a little bit like putting the can before lhe horse. I mean I lhinlr those are issues that will come through the Planning Commission. That will be dealt with quite honestly I think in a little more timely fashion. I mean is it our charge right now to discuss about what we think of the uses before us? I mean I have faith in what the Planning Commission will come up with and certainly if the Planning Commission doesn'~ City Council will. You know. Maybe. Hopefully. Bohn: But the HRA always said, we wanted pitched roofs~ Mason: I understand that. What I'm saying is, I guess I don't think now is the time to be talking about pitched roofs. I mean that has to go through a whole big process. I mean isn't our charge right now to be talking about the land usage as put before us? Bohn: Not necessarily because we didn't say about pitched roofs last time when they built Market Square and before we knew it, it got by us. So I want to make that clear from day one about pitched roofs. Chmiel: I think the aesthetics are something we should have some concern with and start directing that attention. Brad ~ohnson: ...we would like to have it be more, and this is w~re I think we are. It looks 14 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Seplember 23, 1993 okay but you feel that we should attempt to at least have it look like a pitched roof and I think the only problem we've got to do is an engineering problem. Okay. And then we deal with that as we're going through the Planning Commission because they may feel the same way okay, and then bring it back. Chmiel: Yeah. I'm not even sure just, my own perspective on it, as I look at it. I'm not sure I would want a fast food in that location. Brad Johnson: That's a permitted use. Chmiel: I know that. I know that. But by design we can make the design look a lot different but I'm not overly elal~l with this type of a restaurant that would go in. Brad $ohn~n: But now I'm, you know I'm one of the owners of Mazket Square. Is what we need because they have a big advertising budget and attract a lot of people. That's the life of retail is how many people can. Chmiel: So do the other stores in the Market Square draw. Brad Johnson: The only ones that have other, have anywhere near the advertising budget here would be Festival. And Festival is making this center work fight now. Chmiel: When you say they advertise, where do they advertise? I guess that's the only thing Isee. Brad John~n: Yeah, there's~.. Chmiel: But I don't see it that often either. Few and far between in fact. Brad Johnson: Big bucks. Audience: What would you like to see there? A different type of restaurant or just some type of a distance? Chmiel: I would lilre to see a ~t type of family restaunmt. Audience: I thini~ there's a lot of those that have big budgets. If you think about the ones that used to be owned by the Pillsbury...but they've got all kinds of family type restaurants... and we talked to a...about a few of those. 15 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sep~nnber 23, 1993 Brad Johnson: They've all turned the site down. Not big enough. They need more parking. Audience: Well I guess that brings to question the office building. Do you really need an office building there in Market Square? Brad Johnson: It's not an of~e building, h's a retail building but they're going to have what you'd call a service retail in it. Audience: Oh, that's on the second floor. Brad Johnson: There's no second floor. Chmiek Just one floor. Brad Johnson: Just a service retail that the first tenant's going to be there are approximately 5 years and then they're going to build their building. That's the plan. Just like we've got other tenants ia that particular complex that are planning on moving out and build their own buildings. Boyle: What's some examples of service retailers? I think that might help. Brad Johnson: Real estate. Title Inntmmce. Insurance. Doctors. Lawyers. You know people that go on the first floor. That's service retail. Boyle: And I do thinir there's probably a need. I do believe there is a need for that. Brad Johnson: It just is a good location for it. It's a nice clean use and it's an inlm'im use and in addition to build something, you have to have a good credit. You can't get financing on it unless you have a good credit. So right now all that land is going, this currently has no taxes being paid on it because you guys own it. And there are, none of the specials are bei_'ng paid off on it and the ptupose of course is to get this all back on the tax roll We're talking about $60,000.00-$70,000.00 a year in taxes that this particular project will create. We're in the business and it appears that we cannot attract the "family resmtuant". Isn't that fight Vemelle? So far. We've contacted all the family restaurants all the time. Boyle: The Bakers Squares, Applebees, all that? Brad Johnson: Bakers Square, Applebee~ Boyle: And that's because of parking? 16 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - $~ber 23, 1993 Brad Johnson: And so far they've written us off, except for one and the one has got two other sites in wwn that they've got their eyes on and this is not a primary site for them. And that particular one wanl~.xi to §o down where the bowling alley is. On what you'd call your parking lot for the transit. So we said we didn't think we could pull that off. Boyle: I guess I would rather see a fast food spot idnd of behind there. Brad Johnson: Well fast foods are, we have three fast foods in there fight now. We have Frankies, Guy's, and a small restart. They're all, what's fast food7 I mean everything is fast food. Our deli is fast. Chmieh Yeah but it's not sitting there all by itself with those. And that's one of my objections I guess I see and that's. Brad Johnson: Is that a pa~onal objection or as a member of the Council? Chmiel: It's an educated idea. Brad Johnson: Where else would they go? Tl~'s the problem. Mason: You know, I guess I just, I throw this out and I'm throwing it out only for discussion. I don't, at this point I don't have a feeling one way or the other but this same discussion came up with auW uses and nobody likes to have them in their city but by God, everybody uses them. And I guess I do just throw that out. If I'm hearing that certainly Market Square would benefit with a Wendy's there. And then I, so now I have to wear the I-IRA hat. And then I've got to wear the City Cotmcil hat. And I think those are some things we need to come to grips with. I mean I definitely see how something like_, that would benefit Market Square but yet I'd also wonder if there aren't some other restauranis that could do the same thing and I'm hearing you say, right. And I understand that Brad and I appredate that Brad $ohnson: We've been in contact with I would guess with every restaurant type there is. Chmieh Have you tried the Schoenings at all? Brad Johnson: They're not building in this area. Chmieh Why not? Brad Johnson: Because they're just not Don. I don't know. They're just not. 17 Housing and Redeveloprru~t Authority - Sep~mber 23, 1993 Clunich Have you asked them? Brad Johnson: Schoenings is normally on a highway or a freeway of a high traffic area and what we've done here. Ch~el: Not some Schoenings that I've seen on the west coast are not. Brad Johnson: They're just not in towns Don. Are they? I don't know. I've never been to one. Chmiel: They're over in Wisconsin in Hudson. Brad Johnson: See unless they're in your community with an adverti~4ng program, I don't know if any of you guys are retailers. They don't come in with one restaurant. They've got to come in with 20. Just like Walgren's is doing currently and so ~ And the primary locations for those are all on 494 all the way around the community. You know we're not a high traffic community. We're a small residential community with local tmf~. We have very little thru traffic. Even though we have a lot of Highway 5 traffic, it's commuter traf~c you know. It's not ~ the road between here and Duluth where you have people stopping to buy gas and eat because they've got no other place to go. And so I, secondly. Through our zoning and thc fact that the city has purchased every major corner along Highway 5, whether other places there would go, you therefore will find thom over here. I mean there's hardly a corner that is left on Highway 5 that the city doesn't own. Chmiel: Yeah. I like the bank concept on that comer that we had at one time. Brad Johnson: But the bank, somebody made a decision and that didn't happen you know. Okay. And the bank, quite honestly the bank was in to encourage a fast food next door. That's what they would ~ to have next to a bank because they...on psridng. Nancy Mancino: Brad, what's in Colonial Square in Wayzata? There's that, which remina_s me very much of Market Square. There's the Lunds in there and there's the hardware store, etc. Audience: TCBY Yogurt. Nancy Mancino: And there is a family restatuant. Brad Johnson: Perkins. 18 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Nancy Mancino: Oh Perkins. Brad $ohnson: We will have a Perkin.~ probably, perkins or a Bakers Square in town but the site selectors have not chosen this site, I'm son3' to say. Audience: Maybe it's because the roads are still under conslrucfion and it's hard to. Brad Johnson: It's partly due to price. Audience: The question I have Brad is, and I've been following this stuff but it seems to me that we fill the Market Square and grocery store...and the con'anunity is certainly growing you know and it seems like they're always busy down there. Brad Johnson: They want more retail. I mean we're in that business every day. Audience: Who, the grocery store does? Brad Johnson: No. The small tenants in there. We know, my business is developing shopping centers and other things but one thing we know is we have to create a very high critical mass in there for those merchants to be successful because there are only 2 or 3 merchants in there that have an advertising budget. The rest of them will live off the oiher advertise anyway. Bernie, Guy and the hardware store. Now they're an Ace. All I'm saying is from a practical point of view, to make that center successful we need a couple more anchors. And we went after Block Busters because they have a big one and we asked them to go on this comer but they've decided to go at TH 4 and TH 5 on the comer and they're going to build off a parking lot in front of the Driskill, store. What I don't know. I don't necessarily agree with that but that's what they're going to do. And because that shopping center is dying because they don't have the necessary anchor advertising kind of anchors in there. If you've been in there, it's empty. And so we don't want that to happen to our center. Secondly, it's the better pan of the, both the liRA and the city, if we can put a high test, high paying, high value bnildings on there and these ha~ to be those. This is a million sev~ almost 9. million dollars worth of d~elopm~t.~ow what we've done with tlm restaurants is that, as you know we have what is equivalent of a Fridays or whatever you want to call it, a full service family reset with liquor going in to the, over there. Now it's crazy for me to be out chasing another one of those. We've been told by most of them they wouldn't come here anyway. That's the Fridays and all these kincl_~ of guys. The ones we do think will be here, pretty sure will be a Perkin~ or, a Perkins first blush at the community is they couldn't do enough business. 19 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Bohn: Clay~n7 Clayton lohnmn: Brad, if I could speak one time wnight. Even the bank site anticipated a fast food on the other half. When we proposed a bank on that comer, the fast food was going on the other end. I don't really know, I don't think we've ever anticipal~l anything other than a fast food on that site. We made a very special effort to get Gateway to approve that use on that site... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Brad Johnson: ...it's all brick, which we don't have anything like that in the community and there's no requirement to do it that way. Boyle: Brad, it actually is, it's on the back end of the lot, is that not correct? Brad Johnson: It's on the back end of the lot. Boyle: And it sits in a ways so quite honestly going down 78th Slreet, it's not as though you're going to have that as focal point, right7 Brad Johnson: And they're going to landscape. By the time we get through with Paul and everybody, we'll have landscaping here and berrns and evenything else. Boyle: Will the entrance to that, where wo.ld the entrance be? Brad Johnson: Over here. Boyle: And that is where7 Brad Johnson: That internal s~et of the. Okay, here's the Festival. Boyle: Okay. Now I know where I'm at. Brad Johnson: This is where your free lot was last year. We're going to tak~ your tree lot. That's probably why you don't like it. Boyle: Well now that you bring it up. Bohn: You know one of the things that I found wrong with Market Square, and I can see a problem right there with that one too is, other than the building for the retail, there's no Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Septe~ 23, 1993 sidewalks into Market Square. There's not one sidewalk into Market Square. You can walk down, there isn't. You can walk down the street from the regular sidewalk and you cannot, without walking through the parking lot to get to those buildings of those stores. There's no sidewalks. Brad $ohnson: We don't have one at Target either. Bohn: Yes there is. There's going to be one at Target. Target's going to have a sidewalk. There's supposed to be. It was on the drawinEs. Brad $olmson: It's not there. Bohn: We'll have to look into that. Brad $ohnson: I think the problem that you run into in that case lira is traffic Froblem~. We did that over, there was too much of a liability if you have a pedestrian walking through a parking lot. Bohn: That's what, they have to walk now is through the parking lot because you don't have Brad Johnson: Normally, what we want you do is walk along the buildings. Bohn: But how do you get there from the sidewalk? Brad Johnson: Just off the north side. Bohn: They don't connect. Brad John.on: That's because they haven't completed all the development yet. Bohn: You go from Festival over to Market Blvd, you have to walk in the streets because you can't get from the sidewalks on the Festival over to Market Square without walking on the street because there's no sidewalk. Brad lohnson: Do you know why that is? Bill Brisley: No. That was drawn on the plans. I never noticed that. That's supposed to connect right to that long sidewalk that runs out along 78th. 21 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sepir'mber 23, 1993 Bohn: Yeah, you've got shrubs there right now. In fact it looks like you were going to put a Ashworth: If I could. There was a large trandormer at the comer and we had to have that. .. sidewalk on 78th Street going in as a part of thia conuact Typically... (There were two different conversations going on at one time, at this point,) Bohn: Yeah, you can't go from here to here without walking. Brad Johnson: They didn't want you to walk across, see this is a major mad into. Bohn: Yeah, but here's the main enlrance. Brad Johnson: No, this is actually, handles almost as much lxaffic now. Bohn: But to go out here, you've got to walk on the street to get out to the sidewalk. Brad Johnson: What you'd like to do is get a walk and. Bohn: Yeah, cross the street right there to the sidewalk. Brad Johnson: That's kind of like the same problem we had at Town Square... Ashworth: I know that there's a...that's going all the way across. I know that we're finishing... Bill Brisley: Did you notice these sidewalirs down here? This one? Bohn: Yep. Now if you're corning from Markrt, coming from the bowling alley and you want to go to Wendy's, where do you cross? Brad Johnson: Well, we have some problems. Bill Brisley: That would be easy to do. I can see what you're saying. Brad Johnson: What has happened, even out in front of the dry cleaners and that area and out in front of Guy's, we didn't have here in the winter. We didn't have sidewalks. They were putting them in. Those are issues that are not a big expense. What you're saying is that you shouldn't have to walk, is that what you just said? 22 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Bohn: In the roadway, right. Brad Johnson: You could have to walk across the roadway but... Bohn: Yeah. Brad Johnson: I think that was the same question you brought up, somebody brought up in Town Square. Bohn: Yeah, I did. From the sidewalk into the parking lot, there was no sidewalk Boyle: Brad, there's several things about it. I think first of all the image of a fast food anywhere near a main street is always a negative in any commnnity, probably at the very early stages. However, nobody here has come up with a good alternative flutt is solvable at this time. That I've heard. Brad Johnson: We can put this off for a couple years and click off $60,000.00 in taxes, Boyle: And then we might also end up with something less desirable. I'm of the opinion Wendy's is normally a good impression. They're clean atmosphere. In.sid_e and outside. Brad Johnson: And they're easy to deal with archi~y aho. Boyle: And that is the other pan. If they, I think one of the hang-ups here, we agreecl to some type of, maybe not a pitched roof but some type of a pitched front would solve some of the issues. I also believe that it would be an asset to the other merchants in Market Square, which we have an obligation W. That's my conunents. Brad Johnson: Now since that time I've talked to people who actually live in this community and they're excited. They'd love to have a Wendy's. My kids can't wait. Tom Workman can't wait. All these people. Mason: Well in that case. Brad Johnson: You know he used to be on this and he's usually against anything I'm for. He thinks it's a great idea. If you sit down and talk to the people, you know our average age in this community is under what, 32 years old. That's ~ you've got a whole bunch of kids. This is over by the park. It's where, it's the kind of stuff, we tried to get a Dairy Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Septem_her 23, 1993 Queen in there at one time because we have City Center Park here and you guys are too old to renwanber but when I was a kid, after I played football or basketball, I'd say dad. And he just never happened to either, can I go to, and the closer the bet~r. We're actually getting, like he suggested walking u2ffic. My youngest kid now, the one...rides his biire_, around downtown. Of course now we're getting complaints from thc tenants from Market Square that we have people bike's around there but you know, we're getting the children in the community with the new bridge that Don and you guys have put together coming over from. If you really are going to have a nice downtown and part of it is this kind of stuff. Nancy Mancino: Brad? Brad Johnson: Yeah. Audience: I'm neither for or against this so don't take any of my questions the wrong way...but a lot of places that I've bccn to, many different cities or in my travels and things, it seems like there is sort of a bunch of a fast foods in one place with some shared parking and then all the traffic is designed so it's concentrated and for a lot of families that's nice too because not everyone wants to eat at the same fast food place. And so I always envisioned that somewhere in our community there would be that one location that would have 2, 3 or 4 of these things kind of in a row or... Brad Johnson: But the Planning Commission turned k down. It was turned down by the Planning Commission. Audience: Well I thought they just agreed to have a couple, 3 or 4 over by Target. Brad Johnson: No. If Target wanted to put in a food court of 4 or 5 and we restricted it to 2. Audience: But anyway, my question is...if one of these restaurants needs all this parking, .4 of them wouldn't need 4 times that much. Brad Johnson: Here's the problem. You've got, this is real practical. If Burger King goes on first, no more hamburger stores. If McDonalds goes on first, no more. There's all kinds of restrictions on the McD0nalds area. No hamburgers. That's why you haven't had any. That's why we're doing auto. We could not put. Mason: Burgers or cars. You've got your choice. Audience: McDonalds will not...if they have any competition around them7 Housing and Reclevelop~t Authority - Sepl~mber 23, 1993 Brad Johnson: They write restrictions and the same with Burger King. So...saying Burger King is already the restaurant of choice that's going on potentially at that site down there. And we are, Taco Bell and Taco Johng both would like to be on this site. We told them no. Audience: But they could go on the other Target site. Brad $ohnson: Because they're a taco store. Now it doesn't co .rnpete with, and the next thing is a pi~.7~a store can go down there. See. But McDonalds or Burger King or anybody, they just write restrictions and they don't want to see that direct co .mpetitor or Hardees. Audience: $o if Wendys goes in there first, then Target won't get a burger probably. Brad Johnson: Yeah. And I think the reason Wendy's is moving along out here is because they sec they're second at the other site and they can't go on, bccausc the city owns all the other lots on the corner there and they've got the next maybe semi logical place over by the McDonalds. So we've done a very good job of creating traffic...The other thing is we've got to realize that we're getting to be a bigger city. And we're going to have a lot of these people coming in and each one is going to be tough to deal with because it's the first one~ Mason: And I do see that as being one of the issues. I mean I haven't lived in this city all that long. What, 7 years. Compared to some people around here. But even in the 7 'years, the growth that's occurred is just so phenomenal and I think a lot of people that have been here that long or longer are just getting dragged kicking and screaming. And whether personally I like a Wendy's or not, I think again our charge as HRA or whatever, is what is best for that area and the resulting community and it seems to m~ finan~y for the city, and certainly for Market Square, song like this makes sense. And I'm not quite sure what we need to do on this tonight but something tells me we could be talking about this until 2:00 in the morning. Brad Johnson: You get another chance at it. Mason: Well, yeah. More than one I suspa'C Brad Johnson: We'll be back asking you for tax increment sometime down thc line, if this qualifies for that. Especially to pay off the specials and if we haven't gone through the right process with these guys, we'll never get here. And if we get here, hopefully we've had, you two guys will have probably two shots at it and you will have had a couple of shots at it and by that time, and we've already, as I said, workrxl with making sure that the Tree Committee and that group perceives that our parking lot makes sense. I ~ we're trying to be sensitive and I don't have any problems with it because I know what you're going to say. Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Peakod roofs and stuff like that. We can change this around, okay but we're not the architects you know and these are private and all you have to do is say, it looks like it's okay but we want to review the final plan as it comes through the Council and the Planning Commission and we'd recommend a different roof s~ and maybe something else that it would look like and all you guys, Don you have another 2 or 3 c~ Chrniel: Oh I know. My wife likes Wendy's so you can add one more. Brad Johnson: Put her on our list. Now we've got one Republican, Workman and one Democrat... Chmiek What's your setbacks on that property from Market Square and from your drive in into the shopping center7 Bill Brisley: This is 2~. Chmiel: What about Wendy's7 Brad Johnson: This is 2.5 to here. Chmiel: Okay. What is it from that point back to where Wendy's will be located7 Brad Johnson: It's like another 3/i feet or so. Bill Brisley: This fight here is 25 so I'd say that's like almost 45. Brad Johnson: We can put a berm bump or somcdfing along here. Bill Brisley: Kevin was talking about truing this a little bit wider so that it was greener and more screeaed from the street. Because we've got this extra...pocket. Brad Johnson: We've hired a landscape architect just to work with the city process of making sure. Not that Bill doesn't do a good job but he's been working through all the, he's not a landscape archimct so what we have now is a person that's working with all the committees, am I ri§bt? I mean we're doing our best because we are not necessarily happy with the landscaping that we have at Market Square. Okay. And it's not the architect's problem. It's just that we specified some plants over them that we probably shouldn't and we're getting static about thern. And we're trying to correct that so we don't do it again and we'll probably try to change Market Square around a little bit. I got static from Linda about our little boxes out in the middle of the sidewalks over there. The white ones and I get static 26 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 about, what's that yellow stuff that we have all over there. PontintelLa. And we may have too much, because it grows up and grows up you know. We may have too, we may not have enough hardwood trees and softwood lrees. You know how this goes. You've heard it. You'll see this one has everything that everybody wanted. And so you know, and since you don't like the look...remember what we went through with Target. Change it. We'll change it. That stuff we can do. I liked Wendy's because they were, we said you guys are going to...into town. And they said okay, we'll work with it. We're used to working with dries. Boyle: We could do worse. Brad Johnson: Yeah. And then they came back, I'd like to...Wendy's has kind of, you know they've added this. They don't have that anymore..xight ~im7 They're getting there. And next time around when the architect, you know we're going through this but if we can get the architect Even though we're going, we have to be careful too because the Planning Commission gets mad at us when we come over here and talk to you guys in advance of what they do. Bohn: There is no really no front or back to that building. Brad Johnson: It's all around, yeah. They've got a real problem. Chrniel: Which is a plus if they'll work with it. Brad Johnson: It's all brick all the way around. I guess that's what we're looking for. Just some atta boys. Boyle: Well, I think you've heard from two of us. Mason: Yeah. I know you've got at least two atta boys here Brad. .. Chmiel: Those are big Dave's. Vernelle Clayton: That's the case with a lot of people~ It is a little more upscale than the McDonakis and Burger King. Chmiel: If I were to say anything, I guess I'd reserve judgment until I see some aesthetic changes to that particular building. Brad Johnson: Are we on the right track though7 $70,000.00 worth of taxes. I'm no up in Virginia. They don't even have a planning cornmi~ion up there because they've never had 27 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - 8ep~ber 23, 1993 anything built in the last 20 years. Chmiel: That's their problem. They're going to have some other problems too. Brad Johnson: Yeah. But it's kind of interesting. So what you have here is opportunity. Bohn: Thank you Brad. Are we going to get some drawings too of the. Brad Johnson: The proposed? The green one? Bohn: Yeah. Brad Johnson: That's not thc color though. That was computer generated thing. Bill Bfisley: Not only the computer but then taken to l~inko'$ and _ghiOEd one more time. That is not... UPDATE ON ~ ~ 78TH ~'R~ET CONSTRUCTION PRO.CT. Ashworth: ...plans for all the hnpmvements we're making along 78th Street. Somewhere in that process, when you and I had looked, we saw where they were widening the curbs. So as you turn by the clock tower, we're bringing the curbing back into to get an additional lane as it would go up to the Riveria and the last time I had seen we were stopping right there is the driveway into the Riveria. Boyle: The east driveway into the Riveria. Ashworth: The east driveway. I understand that in actuality the plans now have been corning to the west driveway. Did you understand that? Boyle: No. I understand it just the opposite. Ashworth: Just to the east. Boyle: Yeah, just to the east and that's when we pointed out that even that next intersection. Ashworth: So at issue was really one of, if everything is going to be widened from this point on down, and if we're widening from the clock tower down to the Rivcria, is it not reasonable that we would carry out this widening for the last block. And at issue is, you will lose all the trees. There's not space to...The problem is, there's a major t~lephone line fight 28 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 underneath there and we can't save them. So I think we have like. 42 m~s that we're moving up to this group and we've salvaged I think 28 of them. But these will all be lost. Chmieh Is telephone within our right-of-way7 Ashwor&: Yeah. I mean the right-of-way really comes right at one foot inside of the sidewalk. Chmiel: Okay. Where is this telephone located7 Ashworth: Right underneath thc sU~-C Chmiel: Okay. So they have to relocate without any cost to us fight? Ashworth: I would hope so. I don't know if they will just simply let us go over the top of them. I mean the curbing, I'm hoping that they're down 2-3 feet and we can just go over the top of them. Chmiel: And they're going to dig in when they have to. Ashworth: I don't know Don. Chmiel: Go through some problems with that. Ashworth: At issue was, since we had gone through so much detail, I wanmt to make sure everybody knew what we were doing before I went ahead and said okay. Go ahead and talin out that last block and a haft to make sure that's what you wanted. Bohn: Did you talk to the people that own, what do we call that shopping center there? I can never remember. Town Square. About putting the trees between the sidewalk and their parking lot. Boyle: Oh the buffer. There's not enough room Jim. Ashworth: In fact ri~t now, in fact there's one vehicle. I wonder if they've got it...they always back in and they always. Boyle: They're up to the sidewalk. 29 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sep~n~ 23, 1993 Ashworth: Yeah I know. We've got to find out who that is.._I don't think that I need action but I would like to make sure that you knew that those would take and go. Boyle: Don, one of the other reasons for that issue was, you have two lanes corning in, £our lanes coming in. Or excuse me, two lanes to one lane for that block and a half. It's almost a similar situation as when you come on by the bank. You're coming down. All of a sudden you're into one lane. By Brown's Standard where I've seen, in fact I see them 3 abreast coming in there the other day. If we're going to do it at this time, at some point in time more likely we're going to have to do that to avoid a bottleneck so why not do it now? At some point in time... Chmiel: We're having problems too right on Market Square. I came in tonight and every time I've come through there, there's darn near an accident because that right lane gets a point to turn onto, what is it. 79th Street and those who don't know are going straight ahead. And it's darn near bumper ville right through there. And that width in going through as well gets to a point where when there's a left hand turn going into the shopping cem~r, you're darn near having another problem within that area. And I don't know how we can resolve that other than the fact of making it a left turn lane but then you bring it all back down. So you're going to have to have all single traffic coming in. It really is screwed up. Boyle: I believe this would become that type of an issue in the future. That's why we brought it up. Ashwor&: ...Don's point, as you recall We did give the assignment to Strgar to give us recommendations as to how to fix TH 101 and Market Boulevard. We have given them some other assignments. We said okay, phase those in. Get the first ones done in the August- September time frame. But then get us some answers for our meeting in Oc~ber-November for Market and TH 101. We haven't forgotten. They will do it. Boyle: I don't like the idea of losing uvxa either but I think the allmamfivc over rides it. Chmicl: Yeah, is there any possibility Don on the back side of that sidewalk7 The~ is green area there. Can those trees be relocated in that narrow strip7 And one other thing before I forget. During winter, we have a lot of ice build up on those sidewalks. And how can we eliminate that, and that's because of the flow and the top0's that's there. Rather than that water dispensing in another way, it comes straight across that sidewalk and it's frozen and it goes off into the other green area that we have now and then it eventually gets onto the s~.~-t and goes into the gutter. But somehow we have to make sure that some of those problems are going to be eliminau~ as well, and that happens in front of the shopping center, in front Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 of the bank, and going in and around the corner corning up towards the back side of, or going into City Hall. Aahworth: Do you know where the sid~wal~? Chmieh You and I were talking about that last winter. We were looking at some of these things at the time. Some of this in through here is just slick. Like ice skating and in through here it's the same thing. And whcn you get around here, it does the same identical thing. All that water is coming off that grade because you've got more of a topography and a slope coming down. I don't know how they can climinR~ that but some, well They can't eliminate it but I think they have to do something. Ashworth: If there were room for trees, which I don't think that there is, again it could not be these because they are so close to that line. In fact I ashxi Charlie. I said, is this the kind of a thing that maybe a guy could bare root. You know do yourself? He said, given the size of that line, if for any reason you did hit it, you would more than pay for buying all new trees. Chmieh Not if they're in our right-of-way and we have to do something. Ashworth: But I mean, if they mark them and then we. Chmiel: Yeah, we can mandate them to move it because of what we have to do as well They're in our right-of-way. Ashworth: So what you're saying is force them to move it first and then we can go in there and try to take out the trees. Chmieh Yep. Ashworth: I think what it probably_as you're driving to work tomorrow, there's a good possibility that they're going to be out there. A lot of this work has to get done in the ne~t 2, Bohn: Thc space between the drive pan of this parking lot. The space in here between, this space hcre is wider than you can see... If we can get them to move this curb hcre. .. shorten the space up, it's wider than they had over in the shopping centcr...Take away maybe 3 feet of their property to put trees in it. It depends how bad do they want Irees there themselves? Mason: Yeah, what can we do or what can be done about landscaping. 31 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - September 23, 1993 Bohn: Yeah. Well this is a ~ wide space in here. They could give up a couple feel and move this over. Chmiel: Yeah, but they have to have enough room for two cars to get back and forth through there and I ~ink if you were to nazrow that, you wouldn't have that. Boyle: I guess you're right. That's probably ri~t at scale...d~ this require a motion or anything? Chrniel: It's just an updating isn't it'/ Ashworth: ...3 or 4 people said it was a good idea. Bohn: I agree it's a good idea. Chmiel: It's a good idea that we widen it but I would have liked to have seen some other things done prior to that congideration with having those utilities moved. I don't think you can but you know. Bohn: Any other? APPROVAL OF BILLS. Ashworth: ff I may. I'd like to add these. These are bills that were removed from thc City Council's last agenda and asked that they be considered by the HRA. The first one is Sl~an and Associates. That's thc architect for Hanus. Thc second bill is really the last of the bills associated with the community center project and the third one, the Hoisington Bill is, as you can see by the coding dow below, it's assigned to a number of projects but the biggest one is this 473 and that again is the I-Ianus thing. We had a number of meetings with the tenants and then...preparation of plans and ~ecs and all the rest of thaC (Taping of the meeting ended at this point in the discussion.) Boyle moved, Mason seconded to approve the Accounts Payable of the Ho-~ing and Redevelopment Authority as amended by the Executive Director. AH voted in hvor and the motion carried. Boyle moved, Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The rmefing was adjourned. 32 Housing and Redevelopment Authority - Sepl~mber 23, 1993 Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director Prep~ by N~nn Oph~n 33