1993 10 21CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND
REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 21, 1993
Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Bohn: Don Chmlel, Gary Boyle, and Charlle Robbins
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Mason
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; and Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive
Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Chmiel moved, Boyle seconded to approve the Minutes of the
Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated September 23, 1993 as presen~L All
voted in favor, except Charlie Robbins who abstained, and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
VEIH~AI. UPDATE BY JIM DVORAK ON WEST 78TH STREET FROM POWERS
BOULEVARD TO THE CLOCK TOWER.
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, at our last rm. eting, I've been asked several times on the progress
of the downtown...West 78th Street. I thought the best way to handle that was to ask/'tm
Dvorak...engineer come in and give you aa update on the progress of West 78th Street The
time table on wrapping it up before the snow flies, knock on wood. And that/'tm will also
update you on some of the change orders that have taken place .dnce last time you looked at
the project And at _this time I'd like to introduce Jim Dvorak with SUgar-Roscoe.
lirn Dvorak: I guess as everybody knows this year has been a tough year for contractors in
construction. Trying to get things done and here in Chanhasseo it hasn't been any different
There's been substantial delays because of weather and other unforeseen circumstances but
the contractor has assured us, at least as of yesterday a_fUa'noon that they are going to get all
of the road work done thi.~ year. Right now they're concentrating their efforts on Powers
Blvd north of the new West 78th intersection in an area where we have the wetland on either
side and the steep embankment and some of the soil problems, and I guess I can get into that
a little bit. In addition, as you probably noticed in the last couple of days, we're getting to
pave a good number of these mincellaneous widenings that we have to the east of Kerber.
And I guess again we've been reas~ that it is all going to be completed yet this year.
And also a section between Laredo and the Medical Arts b, ilding. That portion that I guess,
we met with a couple members of the HRA and it was decided that we should look at in
doing that and this project at the same time. So that is also slated to be completed yet this
fall. Some of the other things however, probably are not going to be completely finished.
For instance the sidewalks. They are going to infill as many sidewalks as they can as
weather permits and we're going to have them concentrate on the areas that are obviously the
most importanL In front of Target. In the downtown area. We probably won't see this piece
in front of James, the lames property between Kerber and Powers on the north side. There
isn't a lot of pedestrian movement there so we're going to have them concentrate on the
places and try to get those things butwned up. They are going to be starting on the median
pavers sometime early next week. Part of the contract has some median paver work in the
raised medians along, all the way along West 78th. That paver work will match what was
previously done on Highway 5 project. That theme will kind of be canied throughout the
project here. Before they were going to try to start that and wrap it up, we're not sure how
far they're going to get. That's slow work. A lot of it is highly dependent on weather. If
it's warm enough that they can do what they need to do so they'll get done what they can
this year and they'll finish it up, finish up if there is anything left next spring, on the pavers.
Some of the other amenities, the landscaping and the inigafion are definitely going to wait
until next year. They're just so far behind schedule that there isn't time for them to get those
things put in. I guess we kind of support that. We don't want a sloppy job. We want it to
look good when we're done. So we're, I guess pretty much supporting that they hold off for
the landscaping and getting it all looking very nice until next year when they have time to do
it right. The lighting system. The lights for the most part will be up and operational. If you
recall, we have a new lighting system going in bnsic~y on the outside of West 78th, the
whole length. We've salvaged the existing light system that was on the east end of town and
are using that for the new median lighting between Kerber and Powers. Whether that median
lighting is up and operational or not, I'm not sure. That's more of n decorative ef/ect at this
point anyway. If we just anticipate that the roadway lighting itself will be up and functional.
Attached to the median lighting system is a separate circuit that is going to be used to light
some of the holiday decorations that the city has anticipated putting up. One of the
unknowns at this point is whether th~ circuit is going to be up and rnnning for you folks yet
this year. There won't be any t~x,8 up there however to hang any lights on, at least in the
new areas so maybe that isn't such a problem. On the east end of town, if they do get sm't~
out there we'll have them concentrate on the east end again and try to get that buttoned up
first. In case there is some desire to use that system. The signals, and I believe there's 6 of
them, are slated ali to be up and opera6o~ yet this year and that would be the Powers and
West 78th. The main entrance here to the two sides of West 78th that can service the Target
building also. Kerber, Laredo and Cyreat Plains. And Mar~ also. ~t is also up and
nmning at this point. So that basically is the major items of work that we have left to
complete and where we're at. We should see quite a bit of activity on the east end of town
in the next couple of weeks as they try to get that nil buttoned up. Especially the pavement.
As I said before is where they're going to concentrate their efforts. Todd mentioned a short
synopsis on some of the change orders that have kind of taken place to dat~. Most of it has
concern with this end of the roadway. An hnin~vement that what's been happen_ ing around
Powers and then this frontage road. We have nm into some significantly poor soils than were
originally anticipated and I had to adopt some special construction tx,'chniques to take care of
those problems and fini.~h the projecC Mostly what have been done is a surcharge operation
in this area and on the future alignment of the frontage road that will be continued to the west
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
out to thc park. And then the second would be the slope stabili-~tion that we're doing up
here where the steep slopes are up north, right around the Oak Ponds development. Between
that wetland. Those two wetlands. There have been a couple of other minor _things going on
that we're going to have to make some modification to the lighting system to make it work.
And then also we're going to need to process a change order to add this piece of widening
between Laredo and the Medical Arts center that was previously di~ to the contract. I
guess with that I'd be open to any questions or comments.
Bohn: I have a question. Is there anything going to happen with the area down by Brown's
and down by the new bank?
Jim Dvorai~ Brown's and the new bank down on Market?
Bohn: No...
Jim Dvorak: Oh. Staff has asked us to look at, it's kind of out of the project area at Market
and Great Plains near Highway 5 to see what's happening with those intersections and lane
usage and that type of thing. If we come up with a good solution, it will not happen this fall
The contractor is going to have all they can do to button this up. What he has opened up
now. Anything we do down there will probably likely...unless it's something very ~rr~. lc, we
may need to coordinate that with them so it's difficult to say what thc timing will be. We're
in the process of looking at that and trying to come up with some answers on what we think
we can do to rectify some of the problems.
Bohn: The area by the new bank, I don't know why the State would have.
Jim Dvorak: Well, it's a matter of, it's basi~y the signal I guess is what you could say.
The signal at Highway 5. There's loop prol~ctors that go well back up into the city property.
Thc State controls that signal. They control basically how the intersection functions and if
we have an idea to change lane uses or something like that, we would have to coordinate that
through the State. Whether or not that's going to be a problem, I guess I don't know at this
point That's something we...
Bohn: In the original drawings for the area down by Brown's, didn't have it coming to, it
wasn't a protected left turn there. And I don't remember, Barton-Aschman I think was the
one that changed it didn't they?
Jim Dvorak: Barton-Aschmau did the design for the State on Highway 5 and that's when
things kind of got, I guess turned around a little bit and it's something we need to look at.
Bohn: TH 101 won't be on Great Plains Blvd at that time. Probably next year sometime.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Don7
Chmiel: A couple questions Jim. The sidewalks that we're going to be putting in, were all
going to be cement?
Jim Dvorak: All the wsllr.~ on West 78th are concrete. There is a trail the Powers one that's
bituminous but the rest of it is concrete.
Chmiel: Okay. Because we had at one time in front of Maflr, et Square some tar...that was
hid for a walk and I wasn't very happy with that.
Jim Dvorak: Right, and that is planned to be removed and replaced. Whether they do that
_this year or next year, I'm not sure. There's a walk in service now. They may elect to leave
it.
Chmiel: Okay. All the lights that we have up and down and are going to Powers Blvd,
you're saying that they're all going to be tied in and a light system will be there for
additional lights. Are all the opficons going to be operable at that time as well?
Jim Dvorak: It is my, I'm not a signal engineer...I'm not real sure but I don't see any reason
why not. The only part of the opticon system that we're not sure of, and that's here again,
maybe a little bit out of control, are the lights out on TH 5 where the State can get their stuff
together soon enough to get that up and running.
Chrniel: Yeah, those are going. Those are in.
Jim Dvorak: Yeah, they're in but I don't know.
Chmiel: I don't know if they're operable. But it's my understanding they're to be in
operation, I thought by the end of this month. I might be mi.~ak~n but in one of those
conversations that I had, was indicated at that time. Todd, maybe you can answer this. We
gave the contractor some incentives to have thi~ done and buttoned up as quickly as they can.
Are they going to live within that agreement for that additional $50,000.00 that we put out on
the table to make sure that it would be completed and so that they could work longer hours
and pay their people? I shouldn't say it was an incentive. It was some additional dollars so
we can make sure that this was all tied down. And have they reached that point? And if
they haven't, do we get some of our money back? Maybe you can look inW it?
Jim Dvorak: Maybe I can address that better than TodcL The agreement that was made
between the contractor and the city is...hours necessary to get the project would be split
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
between the city and the contractor. I don't know that you're on the hook for the money so
to speak tmless the contractor actually spends all of those dollars in oven/me hours. I guess I
don't know exactly where it's at but contractuatly you're only obligated to spend as much as
they spend. So if they spend less, then you pay less.
Chmiel: Right. I'd like to find out what those figures might be.
lim Dvorak: We can look into that.
Geflmrdt: That is a cap. They cannot exceed that.
Chmiel: Right, I understand that. You mentioned in your discussion, or in your introduction
that this would be done this year. My undcr~g was that we were going to have this
done by October 31st. Is it going to be much different than that7
Jim Dvorak: Welt, I guess thc original completion date of this entire project was basically
scheduled so that it would be done in time, plenty of time for basically the open_ ing of the
Target facility. That was the original completion date was actually slated to be September
1st. Because of the year, the weather, it was physically impossible to do that. There just
wasn't enough weather that was conducive to construotion activities so that the contracWrs
could do that. Things have improved a little but the weather that we've experi~ here in
October is the best that we've had all year. I guess at this point we're just hoping to get the
actual road work and the real necessities, the street ligh~ and the signals up and done by the
end of the construction season, which is typically mid-November.
Chmiel: Was there a condition within that too that they should be sweeping those streets?
And I'll give a clarification. I came in today, this evening at about 5:00 or so and West 78th
Street going east, and I didn't look at thc north side of the road. But the south side of 78th
Street was pretty well laden with mud all over.
Jim Dvorak: Vv'nich area in pa~?
Chmiel: Coming off of Highway 5 and going east on 78th Street up to Kerber Blvd.
Jim Dvorak: So it's between Powers and Kerber?
Chmiel: Yep.
Jim Dvorak: Okay. The contractor should be keeping the streets cleaned at all times.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Chmiel: Well he didn't today. I'll guarant~ it.
Jim Dvorak: Well there maybe a day or two where they can't get a sweeper out or
something. I guess here again I can talk to the inspection stuff to make sure that they keep a
little closer eye on that and follow up on that.
Chmiel: Would you do that?
Jim Dvorak: Sure.
Chmiel: That takes care of my clean car. I only drive a black car but it's got a little brown
haze to it. That's all I had.
Bohn: Gary.
Boyle: I had no questions.
Bohn: Charlie.
Robbins: A couple of comments. Is that one on one of the original plans that I have for the
2nd Addition of Copeland-Mithun's building, which is the Medical building. At that time
there was a curb cut across the median to allow for emergency vehicles proceeding eastwa~
to cut across because that will become an emergency type clinic. Right there. Exactly right
there. Right now it's not marked that way. So there ought to be a curb cut because the
original plan showed to be a curb cut them to cross the median. That's just one, I'm not
saying to answer it now but that's just one question.
Jim Dvorak: I guess I'd just would maybe want a little clarification. By the original plans
you mean the previous project that consuucted?
Robbins: The previous project that we had from Copeland-Mithun that was going to build
the building for Phase 2 showing that and it was agreed that there ought to be a curb cut
crossing the median because, well If you think about it, if it's an emergency vehicle you
don't want to hit a tree when you're crossfing the median and right now there's a tree right
Jim Dvorak: I guess at this point the only extra work that we are aware of down here by the
new Medical Arts site is there's a parking lot in back that was partially built.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Robbins: I guess I would just like to bring it up. That there ought to be a curb cut acrossing
the median for emergency vehicles proceeding eastward.
Chrniel: I was just going to say that in my recollection of that, that was changed in that there
was access to that site only with a fight-in and a right-out.
Robbins: That's possible. The recollection I have is contrary to that. That would show a cut
across the median to allow eastward bound emergency vehicles making that movement. Just
bear that in mind. That's something that you might want to look at.
Gexhardt: Both of you are correct. There were proposals that did show the curb cut, the
center median with the curb cut through it. And Don, you are correct in that the final
decision of the City Council in approving the site plan, it was made that the curb cut would
not go in and that the median would stay and that it would be monitored in the furore. And
if there deemed to be at that time, it could go back in.
Robbins: I guess I would just being a little fac~ous but if you've got an emergency vehicle
that has to make a left turn going over a bump, if I'm laying there busted up, I don't think I
want to be pounded a whole lot by a median. To hurt me because I crossed that.
Chmiel: We could come back through the back side, the alley way into the parking lot to get
to that area.
Bohn: What we thought at the time, they thought about going into that entrance by the
Riveri~ Where the curb cut is.
Robbins: And then thc next question is with the, again this is my day's back on to cruise
Lake Street kind of thinE but with the number of signs on 78th, will the timing of the lights
perhaps, should we say, make traffic speed up to make the next light by any chance?
Because it ~ that that's about a distance of about a mile. Maybe a mile and a quarter
from like the clock tower to Powers~ People driving 2 lane, driving with a number of lights.
To make thc lights. Make the next light approach. Will that be a situation to contend with7
Jim Dvorak: I guess that's something that we can monitor. Obviously no tr~ffic control
system is perfect. I think what, in general what we think will happen out here is you'll see a
decrease in speed beca~ of number one, the vehicles On the roadway. We have major
developments because Target and Mackct Square going in. That's going to add vehicles to
the roadway. It's going to slow the speed down. N~mher two, just because of thc lights and
there will probably be time for something in the neighborhood of 30 mph or in that range and
that should keep the cars platooned and moving through town in an orderly fashion-
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Hopefully that won't become a problem but that's something that will be monitored and
corrected for if necessary.
Chmiel: Hopefully we'll keep it about 20 mph.
Gerhardt: I think this is an excellent time to hand out an article. Jun, you haven't read this
yet but this is how informed our local newspaper is. This is unbelievable. It's just
unbelievable a person could write something like that. I'm just taken aback by it.
Chmiel: Stop and go. Stop and go. Oh, this is today's paper?'
Bohn: Yeah.
Gerhardt: This paper publishes all our ads. They're at almost 100% of our meetings and for
somebody to write an article like this is unbelievable. That's all I can say. I'm taken back
by it. For somebody to write something like that, it's just out of line and improper. I have
no problem with the press you know writing on controversial things but _this guy is just way
off base. I mean we held at a minimum, at a minimum of 12 meetings regarding the
downtown redevelopment. You held a minimum of 5 and the City Council has had at least 6
to 7. We took it to the Chamber. We took it to the Rotary. We took this thing on the road.
And for this guy to write something like this is just ridiCUlous.
Robbins: I see that Kevin is here. With regard to the, which I don't see it marked there and
maybe it's not there. Right turn into your, into the drive in.
Kevin McShane: At Market?
Robbins: At Market. Is that going to present any stacking problems if there's not a fight in
there, because it doesn't appear that there's a fight lane there or anything. I don't see that.
Kevin McShane: Is it there one next to the intersection, 50-60 feet away?
Jim Dvorak: Yeah, and the West 78th Street intersection.
Kevin McShane: That I understand was proposed for a right turn lane.
Robbins: Because right now it's marked without a fight turn, at least as far as I can see
anyway from here. It does not show a fight turn from here.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Jim Dvorak: There is an additional that's proposed to be built through there.
Robbins: But now a fight turn lane?
lim Dvorak: But it's not an exclusive right, no. But there will be two lanes there. If
someone is making a right turn. It will certainly be much improved over the way it is today.
Kcvin McShanc: I understood there was going to be a fight turn. With that initiaL
Robbins: That was the original plan that we originally, that was drawn that way. There
would be a right there. A right in I guess, w~er that term is to make a right mm.
lira Dvorak: The westbound on West 78th.
Robbins: Westbound going north to Mark~
Jim Dvoralc I think that the original intent with the plan may have been to stripe that
additional lane as a fight turn lane but it's certainly not an exclusive fight turn lane in~o that,
onto that roadway on Market. We have a similar situation at Kerber, although I think Kerber
is probably going to be a thru also. But with the previous decision they have this second lane
between Laredo and the Medical Arts building. The city now has an opportunity to have two
thru lanes westbound all the way thru town. However you want to deal with the tmf~ and
how you want to stripe it, that's something that can be worked out...
Robbins: So it is possible to do a right there?
Jim Dvorak: It's possible to stripe it as a fight opening and have one thru lane and one right
turn lane.
Robbins: Well at one time a set of plans, I'm not saying it was the last set of plans, but the
plans that I had seen that showed two thru lanes westward, w~er the right turn lanes so
obviously three lanes then if you want to call it that.
Jim Dvorak: I think what you probably saw was the ultimate development.
Robbins: So this is not the ultimate development then?
Jim Dvorak: Well there's other areas here where we're still only going to have one lane
through town and at this point it's mostly on thc eastbound thru here but there's slfll only one
lane through and ultimately sometime in the future, lO years, 15 years, whenever the traf~c
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
demands needs need to be met, then that will have to be dealt with. That fight mm lane onto
Market is something that, while it's probably nice to have, you know you have to look at is it
critical for the function of the intersection with a signal there. That's something that has tO
be looked at as the needs or demands grow.
Robbins: Kevin, would you like to comment on these?
Kevin McSlume: Well, when we received the originai notice~ on the easement~ there was
some confusion on the taking and that's when you went out and staked it beca~ our
company's in thc process of being acquir~ by thc Klinc's. And all of a sudden we've got
parking issues and we were wondering how that would affect our land and future parking
spaces and square footage. And as we understood it at the time, now maybe that's changed
since, there was going to be a right turn lane there and I don't recall whether it was a full
lane all the way through.
Gerhardt: In that area you have a left hand turn. You have one thru and then a right hand,
second land thru. That person can either decide to turn right or you can go straight through.
And that's the same from Market over to Kerber.
Dvorak: Basically, in essence what you're asidng for is a separate right turn lane.
Kevin McShane: We didn't ask for anything. To start with and the taking...
CI'h~ was a tape change at _this point in the discussion-)
Bohn: ...either that or also corning up from Highway $ and they get onto, I don't know what
the street's called. 79th Street. So I guess it's still probably called 79th Sueet or whalever it
is. And they cross over the median to get into the Kenny's parking lot. There's a divider
there but they still drive over the wp of it...made higher so they can't do that.
Jim Dvorak: That is being replac~ hcrc and it will be.6 inches high and be likc driving over
a regular curb. It's be discouraged. It really adds to the congestion of the intersection when
you have somebody waiting at that location to get across there. And you can go around it
and come in from the side.
Bolm: In fact I seen them tonight do that. Two cars in a row, both drove over that median
and drive.
Robbins: Is that one at Brownies?
lO
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Bohn: No. In front of, by the clock tower. The cut coming between Kenny's and the
Medical Arts building.
Gerhardt: That was their choice. I think we did make it somewhat surmountable. If
somebody wants to take the risk of having to replace, it's their shocks.
Robbins: Todd, you know you and I have talked about this before as you're going southward
on a combination of ?gth/101, whatever it is, crossing the Iracks. Where it's one lane. It's
two lanes as you approach the tracks. You hit the intersection of the tracks and then it goes to
one lane. Will that be fixed?
Gerhardt: That's part of the report I asked them when they would have that done. That's in
front of Brown's Car Wash.
Robbins: Exactly.
Jim Dvorak: That and at Market. There's a ~ situation at Market and TH 5.
Gerhardt: That will be back, when did you say? The next couple months.
Jim Dvorak: Yeah. Within 2 months.
Gerhardt: There's just no way we can get to correcting either one of those problems this
year.
Bohn: We probably could correct the one by Brown's because it's still 101 there.
Gerhardt: Right, and we can correct it but we would have to inform MnDot of some of the
changes that are being...It's going to tak~ a while for that designation to be switched. I mean
we may have the north side of TH 101 open but I'm sure there's some paperwork that needs
to be Iransferred and deeds and that so a resolution by both parties with one accepting and
one...the fights. Is that typically how State highways are...
Jim Dvorak: I've only been on the other end where the State has turned around and said, we
don't want this mad anymore. It's you folks. I haven't done a lot of work that's been ttuned
over to the State from a city. I would imagine it's much the same that could be described as
the one, there's a paper trail that needs to take place before it's official.
Gerhardt: But that...will not wait for that to occur before we start looking at correcting the
11
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
situation. We will be contacting the...
Bohn: We eliminated one fight turn in and out in front of, I don't know if it would be the
new restaurant or Animal Fair. We elimina~ one entrance there.
Gerhardt: That will be going to City Council I think this Monday or 2 weeks from this
Monday. The City Council will make the ultimate decision if that access will be dosed.
Bohn: It's already closed. They put a curb there.
Chmiel: Famous last words.
Bohn: I thought they had closed it.
Gerhardt: ...acceptable of both parties. I mean they're out there doing the curb. It just
doesn't make sense. The Mayor hates it when we go back out there and rip up things and put
them back in...
Chmiel: I ce~y do.
Gerhardt: It just made sense when the property owner was willing to go along with the...
Bohn: Thank you.
NEW BUSINESS: REVIEW 1994 BUDGET.
Gerhardt: It's that time of year again, I attached this last year's oIx~ting budget and there
are really two things that the HRA was concerned with. The first thing is, was capital
projects. The West 78th Street development...the services that are needed to effectively
manage the tax increment districc..so basically a good percentage of your budget is outlining
contractor services. Things that you should be looking for in 1994 will be any type of
promotional or special projects that you would like to see accomplished. Those can be
sponsoring activities that would promote activity in the downtown or that would create
additional economic development activities in brin~g people to the city. Co~ in the
Park. Sponsoring a lot of the 4th of July activities. Where we pay for the houtogs and the
chips and beans and that. And the ~ banners. The decorative lighting that we put in
the downtown in the trees. Those types of activities.
Chmiel: Remember those Christmas lights this year.
12
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Gerhardt: That's one of the things that will be a question to see how ~hn does in getting a
new electrical outlets in thc medians so we can have that additionaL
Chmiel: We'd best have thac
Boyle: Todd, is that the promotional expenses that was bud§eteA at $20,000.00 last year7
Gedmrdt: Yeah. You know the percentage of that goes to pay for I think the tent for the 4th
of July and the holflois and some banners...
Bohn: I have a question. When they put the Christmas m~e lights on, down the center of the
street, do they just drive by with a truck and just throw the lights up?
Gerhardt: It's real difficult. You notice when you go through the downwwn, the ~ in the
~ are the river birch and it looks like we just throw them on but the branches ~eak on
them. They tie them to thc branches and it gets so cold and they're so thin: they go like thaL
And the guys try real hard and this past, the last liRA meeting I went to Nashville and the
Opryland Hotel, I went, the sen'dnar started on a Sunday and got over on a Wednesday and
they were still wrapping those trees when I left with Christmas lights. It's unbelievable how
they go about doing that. They, if you put them on a net and they go strand by strand at the
top of these trees with cherry pickers~ And they had/5-6 people working on them for that
entire week that I was there.
Bohn: They don't have snow either.
Gerhardt: No, but they have Christmas lights. Lots of them. So we will be looking at some
alternatives. Mike prides himself in trying to...but it is difficult when those branches break
off and they're just dangling there. We will try to get some bigger branches and as those
trees and mamre.
Robbins: Todd, just a couple of observations on budget '92 compared to estimated. I'm
sorry, I'm in the wrong year here. It looks like we're okay. I was just curious about the
telephone and a couple of other things there. But it looks that was in '92 so that doesn't
matter. My fault.
Gerhardt: It looks like we added additional homes somewhere to keep them out of there.
We're not looking for any action on this item. It's your shot to look at last year's numbers.
If you had any ideas of certain things that you had in mind that in some of the events. The
Oktoberfest or this year Park and Rec is looldng at a Wintedest activity. The City Council
really limits Todd on how much money he can really spend on those and you do look back to
13
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
corporate residents to assist a lot in those, and they give a lot. No question about it. Kevin
has been a good contributor. Instant Webb and a lot of the other businesses have helped out
in that. But I know he's scraping the botwm every time he puts one on and...to help him out.
Boyle: Todd, I think maybe a proposal from Park and Rec as to what they're looking at and
the dollar figures involved would help also.
Gerhardt: Yeah, he put that on for the next one. I did, as I was writing this report I went in
and asked him what certain things could the HRA phy in assisting him with some...festivals
or other promotional activities within the community and some of their suggestions were, you
know fireworks or the sponsoring the Concert in the Park that they hold out in front of City
Hall. Some of those is what those suggestions were but I'll get more detail with them over
the next week...
Boyle: Based on the assumption they get some money for some of these already, is that
correct?
Gerhardt: Right. We would not pay for the entire thing. I think Todd maybe as he gets
these programs going and then lets a lot of the Lions and Rotary people have taken...The
League of Women Voters wants to get involved and there are several other organizations...
When we get these new programs it's wugh to get some interest in 4th of July or...And the
Septembeffesc Both of those agencies are co-sponsoring one of those two and Todd thought
it would be nice to get a winteffest going promoting the long wintexs here and there would be
a lot of activities. Cross country skiing and snowmobile racing. Ice finhing. Snowman
sculpturing and some other activities that they have planned. He thought fireworks, a lot of
people like to look at fireworks. You need some things to draw but again, Kevin can only
give so much and In.~mnt Webb can only give so much and if you get some initiation going
and paying an interest, people like to...
Bohn: Maybe we could have abon fire over at the...
Gerhardt: Anybody have any other ideas of certain things? Any special studies?
Bohn: Well I have one. Still that trail from the new bank b~jlding along thc railroad tracks
over to Lake Susam Underneath the railroad tracks. I talked on WedneMay I think I talked
to Paul Krauss about the area between the pillar and embankment where a trail could go. We
still don't know who owns that property between, does the railroad own the pr~ between
the two pillars or all the way up to the embanht~t?
14
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Gerhardt: Thc way I understand it, they've got like a 50 foot easement and I thin~ it's 25 on
each sldc from the middle of thc track.
Bohn: So then it's probably just between the two pillars. That space between the two pillars
is big enough for 2 or 3 tracks.
Gerhardt~ Yeah, then the rest of the way was MnDot, fight
Bohn: Would be the highway. Then would have to get pcrmisdon from them to run a traiL
Better having it run through there than over the wp.
Geflm~t: We can research that and see where the easement's spotted on that and...
Bohn: Because I think it'd be a nice way for people to get over to Lake Susam Lake Susan
Park from downwwn. Because I think it would come up, the trail I figure would come out
between the church and Robert's Automotive. Anything else on the budget?
VISION 2000 PLANNING PROCESS.
Gerhardt: Mr. C~'rnan, HRA member. On the last agenda where we had the 2002 study
outlincd...tentafivc meeting dates. This information I have tonight is that we have established
two meeting dates in November 1st and November 15th at 7:00 at thc Chanhassen Dinner
Theatre. We have scheduled a room in the lower part of the theater to hold those. From
what I've been informed...and both Fun and Don have sent out invitations to a variety of
different people in the community...175 letm~ so I think it's going to be a good project and
hopefully we can stay ahead of all the development that's going to be proposed and get some
input from the residents on some of the remaining parcels. Again, this is ldnd of another
update. In the November meeting I'll have another one telling you what some of the
comments that we received have been but I would hope that you could attend that meeting.
We've invited all the commission members. Planning Cornmi~ion, Senior Cowmi.~sion, Park
and Rec to the meetings and a variety of bnsiness..,A lot of people that have questions...
Bohn: Is $ohn Dean going to run that?
Gerhardt: Frcd Hoisington will be the facih'mtor. He's done several of these in thc past. I
think he did the first one that the city had done in the downtown redevelopment. He's done
several in Rosemount, Apple Valley and...and Fred's real energetic. He keeps the thing going
and he does a good job...We were hoping that everybody would be out of there at 10:00.
That's what we asked thc Dinner Thea~. That's what we asked...Thcrc's no action that
needs to be on this. Any modifications that you may have seen. Any specific project. I
15
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 199'3
think we highlighted a lot of some of the ideas of what we want to look at fi~om the entry
monuments to land...fire station...
Bohn: Are we going to prioritize what we do with our funds in the next year?
Gerhardt: No. That's why we're going through this process. To get some input back from
the residents on seeing what their priorities are and then from that you would go through that
information and facilitate...
Boyle: That's the purpose of this whole...?
Gerhardt: Yes.
Chmieh Just one thing I wanted to just mention Todd regardin§ this article in the paper.
1ust consider thc source.
Gerhardt: I guess I feel more son~ for Charles and everybody that had to come through the
public hearings. It just takes one article like that and...
Chmiel: Well it's a shame he doesn't know what he's really talking about and that's part of
the problem and I'd go on record.
Gerhardt: ...it's easy to sit there and judge...
Chmich Maybe we should start looking at another newspaper.
Gerhardt That's all I havc on that Mr. Chairma~
OLD BANK ACQUISITION, UPDATE REPORT.
Ashworth: I went through my packet and there was a copy of Hoisington's report in mine.
Can I make the assumption that you similarly did not get a copy of that?
Boyle: That's a correct assturq~on.
Chmicl: Boy is that right.
Ashworth: I don't know what happened. As I mentioned in thc cover mern~~ the new
bank owners and the existing bank owners are quite concerned about our potrntial, or our
condemnation of the old bank property, and that concerns, or that stems from thc fact that
16
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
they would like to see an expansion go on the new bank pmpa'ty upwards of about 20,000
square feel: If they were to do that, they would not be able to accommodate the total number
of parking stalls on their site. There is a city ordinance that would allow for off site parking
if it's within 300 feet of the entrance of business but you have to get approval from the City
Council to avail that of that type of remedy. But again, they see that as their only remedy if
they were to put a new addition on_ Accordingly I asked Fred to meet with them and try to
explore some alternatives to try to see if we couldn't meet those concerns. Thc first diagram
that you have in there. Basically we'd try to look at reconfiguring the existing bank properW.
Would move the driveway in to the north. Would connect that driveway with the post office
and would again reconfigure their existing parking. The problem with it is it only orates 5
additional stalls over what they have. They still would be required to have 84 additional
stalls to be able to put that 20,000 square foot addition on_ Thc second alternative looks at
combining the western part of both the post office site as well as the bank as one parking lot.
So you would, this would make the assungrdon that the city would come in _~nd create a
municipal parking lot out of what would be again the western portion of both the existing
bank properties and the postal property. This would be in a fashion very similar to how we
felt the lots behind the Pauly/Pony/Pry~nus or Kennys, the medical center, etc. This would
produce 18 stath over the existing. They still would need an additional ? 1 stalls. If you
would like, if you have any questions as I'm going through each one, feel free to stop me.
The final proposal, final drawing would remove the post office entirely. It makes the
assumption that in the next 3 to :5 years that the post office will move and that that property
then could be made available for some other use. In thi~ case as a parking lot for the bank
expansion. I think it's fair to say that the owners of the bank, specifically the Kleins really
see this as the best way to provide long term parking needs. It gets rid of thi~ requirement
that they go back to the City Council and get a special permit to allow them to use the old
bank property for meeting their parking needs. It in.~res that their customers and their
employees don't end up having to park across the street Basic~y use thc bank itself. The
post office finds this to be the most exciting alternative because Al, that post office was
designed for approximately 3,000 to 4,000 people. It was dexigned to have two can'ier routes.
They currently have 8. They will be moving up to 9 very shortly. They do not have the
ability to expand on that site. And you can reasonably be assured that sometime within the
next 3 to 5 years, potentially longer, we think shorter, that the post office will in fact need to
move. In addition in my own mind is the fact that if the post office, I'm talking about the
federal government, waits for 5 years, or even if they wait 3 years, that there will not be a
site left in downtown Chanhassen for a post office. I think that's going to be a real shame
for our community because I don't know if you know were Eden Prairie located their's clear
out by the Flying Cloud airport. You know their post masters agree, this is kind of a
disservice to thc comtmmity. It doesn't really serve reaidents. It doesn't serve the
commercial area. The abih'ty to go down in the morning and pick up your mail or buy some
stamps~ C~o to the bank. Go to thc grocery swre, those are just typical activities that
17
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
reasonably should occur within the downtown area. So I think that a post office, we will not
have a site for a post office and they would end up locating in the industrial park in front of
McGlynns. South of the public works garage. Any of those kind of alternatives that just is
kind of depressing to me. Again, the post master really would like to take and work with us
and what we want to do is to develop a proposal that we can submit to the feds. The
problem is, that they have a very, very favorable lease in that currant location that could take
them, they're in 5 year blocks and the next block comes up next July and they have two
remaining after that. So they could be at that site, under that lease for 11 years. But from
physically, from thc standpoint of physkally operating out of there, there's just no way that's
going to occur. So I think we've got to develop some options. Now where does that put us
back with thc owners of thc bank. Thc Klicns and Mithuns. We tentatively reached a quasi
agreement. Until things get onto a sheet of paper, does that really represent what we said.
You have some of those types of disagreements, But I think that we reached agreement that
the city could enter into an option agreement to purchase the old bank ~. And that
option agreement would have that the payment for our acquisition of the property, when we
would literally execute that. Take over the property...would be that we wonld provide them
the deed to the post office property. That we would have somewhere like a 3 to 5 year
period of time in which to work with the post office. Get them to a different location. Take
over the ownership and therefore be able to execute the agreement reaching with the bank
people. That would also allow us to purchase what is the two vacant lots right now. Another
pan of the agreement, as this would be solely an option type of a~t, they would retain
ownership so therefore they would retain the right to lease the property. Since we would be
getting into potential relocation type of costs, we'd look w a chuse in there regarding
relocation. I think they would agree to that...Quite truthfully I don't think that we're going to
have wo much of a problem reaching agreement in that area. There may be a kicker but I
don't know who might get it. Anyway, that's where we stand. Tomorrow morning I hope to
have completed restling that and calling Kevin and potentially getting a copy of that to him.
Tonight's meeting was really one of seeing if the liRA, was in agreement that this was a
good approach to take and resolve some of these differences between the Mithuns, the Kleins
and the city. And secondarily to see whether or not you supported staff's position to try to
work with the postal service to ensllre that we did keep them somewhere within our
downtown area. Hopefully close. As close as possible to here. That's our report
Chnfiel: I think we should try to tie down and get this thing cleared up between the present
owners and the new owners, only because of the fact that I too want to sec the post office
retained within thc downtown area and I see potentially the Charlle Jam~ site as a location
for that. If we don't move on it, we're going to be hurting somehow. I'm a strong advocate
of having the post office downtown, just like the rest of the businesses and if we get all the
things that maybe Charlic James is talking about brining in, that could also have the senior
housing center as well on that same parcel And by having that all there it meets two
18
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
different ends that I see. One, because of the seniora The proximity of everything
downwwn. The availability and accessibility for them. Two, still keeping a post office in the
downwwn area to provide the additional kinds of movements that we need to support the
basic businesses within the community. If they come downWwn, they'll go to the post office
and maybe they'll go w the bank. They'll go to the grocery store. They'll go to Target.
They'H go to all the other stores that we have within the mall so to me it has a real good, I
have a real good feeling about this.
Boyle: Don, when you refer to the Charlie James pwpeny. That's the ~ on the west
side of Kerber?
Chmieh That would be on the north side off
Boyle: Of 78th?
Chmiel: Yeah. West 78th and west of Kerber, right.
Boyle: Don, in this proposed agreement, is there a purchase price in there? Recommended
in this agreement do you know or has a purchase price for the old bank bnilding been
Ashworth: It calls for an even swap of the two properties. As we sit down and meet with
them, they may not feel that that's reasonable and they'll present their feelings for why.
There should be a differential in thc price. It does include a price per square foot for the two
vacant lots and quite truthfiflly, well I'll take that back. I believe our atwrneys have talked to
Mr. Mithun as to what they think is a fair value for that. And thetl discussions kind of broke
down and we got inW thi.s, you can't take this piece. That's the only place we can expand on
and it got us into our current negotiations.
Chmiel: And then of course there's one other thing too that I forgot about is, keeping this
open in front of City Hall and having that designed as that park portion that we're looking
for. Some of the things that we've been contemplating for a long period of time.
Robbins: Just looking at it in terms of the post office, because as we experience growth and
retail sectors and wholesale and se~ice sectors as a post office, the land, if we do a wade or
come up with some type of swap, or call it what you will, would that suffice for the future
growth of the post office7 Because it's possible they're going to need some expansion space
in 3 to 5 years as well so is today's footage to their's enough to accomplish that in 5 years or
whatever the time frame is.
19
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Ashworth: Well again, remember we haven't picked a site and we haven't developed a.
Robbins: Have we got anything more definitive in ~ms of. We know the present size of
the post office now. Do we have any trends for what 3 to S years growth of the federal post
office system for Chanha~en would be in that time frame?
Ashworth: Yes, but what they're going to have to. It's going to take a number of meetings
with the postal service and have them define what it is that they want to look at. If we're
going to look at solely the post office to serve the customer needs of Chanhassen, you end up
with one size. If it's going to be a facility for both their carder routes and the customer
service, it's a little different size. One of the concepts that I find real intav, sfing, and I think
that Kansas City and Washington are lightly going to support will be a consolidation of the
carrier routes for Chaska, Excelsior, Chart out of this facility and design it in such a fashion
so that they can more efficiently, because all three of those post o~ are having a problem.
If they remove the carrier routes out of all three and consolidate those into one location and
similarly provide the customer service for the new location, they can get rid of three
problems. They can solve three problems with one swne. We're going to have to develop
the proposal. Something that we can literally carry probably to K_sn._~s City, hopefully
getting them to come up here, and show them. Walk them down through it. Show them
where we would like to see it and I think part of that decision should be back with Al, who
remains as a good supporter for us but we're going to have to develop that proposal and then
again, try to get them to react to it because we're, they're just not going to do it on their
own. You know. They're going to wait until it's too late and then when they do do it on
their own, then we'll all be rewiniscing. Gee, we should have done something back when in
'93.
Boyle: Even starting now is going to take time.
Chmicl: Oh sure.
Boyle: Going through that process with them.
Ashworth: I would expect 2 years...
Chmiel: I think we should be a little aggressive in that particular time_ frame for us to go
ahead and do what we're doing and I say that's the way we should go really. The existing
post office site, what is that? About 5,000 square feet. i'm trying to remember what that
building, existing building is.
Ashworth: I was going to say 3,300.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Chmiel: Is it? So they would probably need somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe
15,000 ~quare feet?
Gerhardt: Yeah. We're going to have to put a proposal together on several alternatives.
You know like Don said, you're going to have a mass distribution operation or you may have
a separate facility that we just have the carrier routes go out of and you have like a service
facility as a separate building where you could maybe get your stamps...and your PO boxes
and your route people would be someplace else. And they would convert back and forth.
Mail would be held from the distribution area. Or you look at just one separate post office
that we have with carrier routes would come out of. As Don said, we'd have to put a couple
of concepts Wgcther. Different...
Boyle: Having spent about 3 years working with the government in various areas, I would
guess that they probably have plans for each one of those alternativ~ or concepts that you
just discussed, already available. If a post office does this, it's 15,000 square feet. If it's
this, it's 5,000 and so forth. They probably have something.
Gerhardt: In my mind there's only the one alternative and that would be to go with the two
separate buildings. In my mind. Because even I've been in the Excelsior post office and it's
unbelievable. They just continue to trip over themselves.
Chmiel: Yeah. The availability of parking is, yeah.
Bohn: I also have heard that all the mm1 carriers will be getting government vehicles. So
each route witl have a vehicle that will have to left at the post office so that will take a lot of
parking spaces. If Chanhassen has 12 or 8 routes or 9 routes, that's 9 vehicles that's going to
be left there overnight and if we get the rural carriers from Excelsior and Chaska, we could
have 20 vehicles sitting out there overnight.
Ashworth: Possibly. Al did mention that possibility although right now they're funcrdoning,
each employee...their own vehicle. That seems to work for them so. Kevin tells me that
they've got a tentative clo.sing between Mithuns-Kleins for next, _this Friday?
Kevin McShane: Next Friday, the 29th.
Ashworth: If we could put things together, do you think it would be possible for us to meet,
I'm assuming that would be thc 28th is a Thursday. That would make thc assumption that we
were able to reach agreement. Cot a packet out to you hopefully Friday evening in
preparation for a special meeting a week from Thursday.
21
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
Kevin McShane: A week from today.
Ashworth: Oh a week from today7 I think what we're going to have to do is just keep the
HRA posted as to how these negotiations are proceeding. I mean is this a maker or breaker
of your closing7
Kevin McShanc: That's a little 'hard to answer because' they, they being the Kleins, notified
through the attorney process. I say our's. I'm on both ~ kind of inbetween, if I survive
the transaction. They had notified the Mithun's ~ey that this is a material change in the
transaction which leaves it open for them not to dose. And they have not withdrawn that.
Our goal was to hopefully get some kind of assurance that they can live with that the parking
issue will be somehow handled and knowing we don't have an answer today, just have some
assurances as your memo said that if something can't be done with the post offtc, e, other
parking stalls are available in the future and if not, the land comes back. Keeping in mind;
the bank owns 2 of the 3 lots on the piece. Mithun Enterprises owns the third lot on the
west~ly piece. That is not being purchased by the Kleins. The Kleins are purchasing the
two lots via the purchase of the bank and they're purchadng the bank facility which is in a
separate corporation- But it's all part of the transaction so. If the Kleins purchase it, we'll
own our bank facility, two lots and Mithun Enterprises will continue to own a third lot.
Ashworth: I'm confident that thc attorneys for both the Mithuns and thc attorneys for the
Klcins are going to go through this document and to think that somehow we're going to take
and reach agreement. Have all the changes made and then be able to meet a week from
today, I just find that. We've never done that. I mean I can set it as a goal but I ~ it
probably won't happen. I think the best I c, an do is just continue to wol~ with, keep you
posted as to what's happening and we'll just play it by ear.
Boyle: I agree with you Don.
Bohn: I agree with that. Have we looked at another site for the post office besides the
Js_,rw.s' property? How about the Burdick property across the street?
Ashworth: The Burdick will be, thc site as you're aware, thc access for Target is off that
back road and you really can't see what's happening on the back side of the property. Good
access to 78th Street isn't done. Visibility is directed to 78th. There's one drawback
You're dealing with Mr. Burdick and the 79th Street property of course we own. I think...so
that's a possibility. Another one that wc will have A1 take a look at, and that's the Merlyns.
That does the ability to literally serve vehicles out of the back side without being fight on
main street. It has the square footage of about the area that they'd be looking at. So we
could do the mass production type of thing out of the back side and the customer service out
22
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - October 21, 1993
of the front. You'd probably be in that 10,000 to 15,000 ~quare foot range.
Bolm: But do you view Irucks unloading will show up then won't it?
Ashworth: They come in at 5:00 and pick up and then they're gone within 15 minul~s. They
must come in in the morning, although I guess I've never really seen them. The number of
trucks per day is really very small at least in my observation.
Bohn: Yeah, the carrier vehicles they have to load and unload their. The rural carriers.
Their vehicles will be back there loading and unloading. Especially if they take their postal
vehicles, then they'll have even more. They'll have their cars and the postal vehicle cars.
Boyle; Well we're kind of jumping ahead.
Chmiel: Yeah, a little bit~ But one of the things that I'd like to see us get the im~'mation on
Wo Don are the total dollars that we are looking at. I'd like to see what that's going to come
to as well. So maybe we could have that within our next paclmt.
Boyle: Maybe also the feasibility of the Mithun pmpe~ that is not, the third lot that Kevin
just mentioned. That is not going with the new bank. Mithun's going to maintain ownership
to.
Ashworth: I see that as pan of the.
Boyle: Total package?
Ashworth: The negotiations with the city...purchase all tlzree and I see it as a technical issue.
Mr. Mithun potentially signing one document as it deals with one lot and then him signing
another as he represents the bank ownership...
Bohn: Any other questions? Thank you.
APPROVAL OF BII.LS. Chmiel moved, Boyle seconded to approve the Accounts
Payable of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority for October, 1993. All voted in
favor and the motion carried.
Robbins moved, Boyle seconded to adjourn the meetin~ All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Don Ashworth, Executive Director
Na n Opheim