1993 11 18CHANHA~$EN HOUSING AND
REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 18, 1993
Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBER~ PRF~ENT; Sim Bohn; Charlie Robbins, Gary Boyle, Don Chmiel and Mike
Mason
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director;, and Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive
Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robbins moved, Boyle seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated Ocw~ 21, 1993 as presented. All
voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Robbins: lust as a matter of record, how this all started is that Russ asked me, and lohn, you
know how do we talk to the HRA and I says well there's a section on the agenda. Not that
we act on it or anything but we listen to anybody wanting to address the HRA at this time
and appear and just address the HRA at thi~ time so they had called me.
Russ Pauly: Okay. Now for those that don't know me, my name is Russ Pauly and this is
my parmer John Helidron and we'd like to build a full service car wash in the city of
Chanhassen and I guess we looked at, we've been to the Planning Commission- We've
talked to them as far as parcels that are available and the zoning for that type of business in
Chanhassen and so we've done a little bit of ground work but we haven't approached the City
Council or anyone else with this idea. We'd like to start with the liRA and see if there's a
need for a business like this in Chanhassem We feel it would be a big asset for the
community. We're talking about building a first class operation similar to Gehdng's Car
Wash in Wayzata. Another comparison would be the, oh there's one in Bloomington_ It's
Buff and Shine off of Shady Oak Road. That's another. Not Shady Oak but Old Shakopee
Road. That's another first class operation but that's the type of unit that we would want to
build and it would probably be around, between 7,.500 and 8,500 square feet you know as far
as a building goes. And we're here to hear what the HRA has to say and what we can do to
move this thing through the system.
Robbins: Russ, have you given any thought to the land where you're going to be or any
plans or any drawings? Have you done anything like that?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Russ Pauly: Well, we have done some pre_limin~ry stuff but we just felt 'at this time you
know we would bring this...The lot that we're talking about is next to the motel. The
Chanhassen Inn down on Highway S there. It's owned by Don McC~low and it's a
relatively small lot. It's like 38,000 square feet and one of the problems that you know, one
of the things we've addressed with the lot is that it also has some problems as far as wal~.
It would require some things as far as, you know to make it buildable. Those are some
things I understand the HRA has done in the past when there's been land that requires special
things as far as whether it be fill or whatever so. I don't know at this point that's about as
far as we've progressed with it. We don't want to spend a lot of money on it until we find
out what, you know we would like to go ahead with the project one way or the other but
we're here to start and you know with the syslx~ and just see how we progress and what the
feedback wonlrl be from the HR.
Boyle: Russ, what kind of feedback did you get from the Planning Commission?
Russ Pauly: Well I tell you it was kind_ of a funny thing because when we went up there
originally in the spring, they thought it was a great idea and pointed out the different
properties that were available and you know, that are zoned for that type of business. And
then we came back about 6 weeks later with architects that wanted setbacks and that on the
property and they just go whoa. You know we can't, the Council's inslmcted us not to allow
any more automotive related businesses on Highway 5. So that's basically where it sits. We
don't want to try and build something in town that isn't wantecl obviously but I think, you
know like I say. I think it would be a huge asset to the cotmmmity and we're not talking
about building a tin shack type operation. You know it would be as first class as any
building in Chanhassen.
Boyle: At the current time do you have a second alternative?
Russ Pauly: You mean as far as property?
Boyle: Yes.
Russ Pauly: Well with the type of zoning that you're looking at, there's very few parcels that
are available and anything that really mee_ ts the size and the ~ patterns that we would be
looking for. You know we want something that's got some good access and obviously that
piece of proper~ on West ?9th has great access.
Robbins: Have you looked at the, because I drive by there a lot and I'm in and out, as we all
are. It looks like it's kind of dnmp. What about the soft correction? Is there anything
needed on the soils? Do you know anything about the land?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Russ Pauly: Yeah we had, we went off of a soil test that was done 2 years ago when I think
Dalwn Construction was going to build a 2 story office building on that. So we called the
engineers and have them tell us basically what was going to be needed based on that soil ta~
So we know that the buikiing will have to be piled. You know there's like 61 piles so it
wouldn't be a cheap deal to build_ the buildin§ but if the land can be purchased at a
reasormble price, you know you can still, you know it's a lot basically. They can build a
building on just about anything but if the land isn't that great it would require some soil
correction. That's det:initeiy a, we know that for sure.
Robbins: Todd, is that zoned where he's talking within the tax increment, what's the word I
want to use? Territory should we say.
Robbins: Okay.
Russ Pauly: We were told that by several people including Don McCarlow. He would like
to sell the property too. Obviously.
Bohn: This is on the west side of the hotel?
Russ Pauly: The west side of the hotel, yeah. At one time I guess they had expressed an
interest in buying it but he said he just, now that the other motel is in town, he's not looking
for any expansion because Don has approached him about it and he's had that pwperW for
sale for about 2 years I think he said. Calhoun Realty's had a sign down there but I think a
lot of it has to do with the fact that there's very few businesses that fit on a lot size that
small. I mean you're going to be looking at something that's either a drive thru situation
with limited parking. It's just too small to really do a lot with it. You rely couldn't do
much as far as retail there you know. Like I say, we're talking about probably between 7,500
and 8,500 square foot building and that's about as big as you cou_ld put on there. And we
wouldn't require a lot of parking for the simple fact that it's a business where you drive in
and drive out. It's not, you're not leaving your car. We would require parking for employees
and whatever the city requires as far as that type of business but it wouldn't be an 8,000
square foot retail business say like a bar and restaurant. You're not going to have that Icing
of traffic. So I don't know, we feel that spot is a good one but there again, it's the kind of
thing. There's been pros and cons from what I've heard as far as the building anymore of
those things on Highway 5.
Chmiel: One of the things that in discussion probably with staff, as they indicated. There is
a temporary hold on any auto related uses adjacent to Highway 5 corridor. And that's
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November
probably a very true statement because Coundl looked at that. In fact I think it was
Councilman Senn that wanted to have a moratorium on any building in and adjacent to
Highway 15 and I think probably the balance of Council looks at it that way as well We're
only going to have one time to put this thing completely together and hopefully try to do as
much aesthetics as we possibly can. And they seem to frown on the fact of auto related
businesses in and adjacent to TH 5. I don't know if that's the full Council feeling. But I
think what is being looked at is how can we preserve that and get the aesthetics to that
particular area. Now the piece that you're talking is directly to the west of the motel on the
south of 79th.
Russ Pauly: South side, correct
Chmiel: Okay. Is that, what is that land in itsel/? Is there any wetland in there? It's never
been considered as wetland? Just a drainage area? There's a lot of moisture containment
within it.
Gerhardt: ...it's not a wetland.
Russ Pauly: No. We talked about that Last spring.
Gerhardt: I think thc concern that Council had, I mean it was in the paper with the
discussions regarding thc moratorium and where staff has been coming in on that is, we've
been trying, struggling to get this Highway 5 corridor amendment. I don't know if you're
familiar with that.
Russ Pauly: Right.
Gerhardt: We've been so inundated with subdivisions this summer. I mean the Planning
Commission was here until midnight again on Wednesday and what they've done is they've
cleaned a docket off and they're going to deal with this I think on the 15th of December and
all they're going to deal with the Highway 5 cmridor plan and hoping to wrap that up by the
first of the year. So Paul gave me some dates. I'm not sure on it but they're hoping to
complete it by sometime in Sanum'y and k~ping som~ of those ~gs ~ so you can sit
down and...this plan flni~h~l and adopt~l anti get it onto Council for th~ reviow. So the
plan is complot~ but it's still got to go through tho mviows and som~ public ~gs with
the resid~ anti that. $o I know that was the Council's concerns are. I don't know if
they're always the automotive relat~l but that's one of tl~ uses that they're conccrnexi about.
Contex was in at the last Council m~ting and I think that's what was Immght up regarding
the moratorium issue. Until ~ plan is adopted. So it's not just auto mlat~ It's anything
that maybo goos along Highway 5.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Chmieh Specifically some of the Council had indical~ auto reiated. They didn't want any
more and as I said, I'm not sure that's the feeling of the entire Coundl but that's something
that we have to keep in mind and depending upon aesthetics and the way that might be faced
there, there's always a potential. But there's no action that we can take tonight. We can't
even give you direction because it's purely a discussionary thing on your standpoint. But it is
depending upon what it looks like, what the exterior is, the corr~,lete view of how it's going
to look. You may have some problem with that. But how great and just don't bank on my
word but I'm just saying as what I see and what could come back. I'd rather be honest with
you than not.
Russ Pauly: Well I guess that's what I'm looking for but.
Chmiel: But the whole point of it is, is that okay what are you really going to have it look
like? Will it look like a car wash in itseif?
Russ Pauly: Well I guess if you travel to either Wayzata or.
Chmiel: I'm familiar with that.
Russ Pauly: I mean there isn't anything that resembles a car wash there. I mean they're just
first class operations. First class b~jlttlngs. There isn't a nicer building, well a lot nicer than
a Target. You know I mean if you want to compare apples to apples, there's no comparison.
If you're looking for beauty, this thing will, you could hide this in the berm_s and, or make it
part of a landscape. It's not going to be sonmthing that's going to stick out like a sore thumb
you know. We want it to stick out somewhat because we want it to do business but on the
other hand you know a building like that has a lot more potential...as making it a part of the
landscape. A part of the community mare so than that big elephant on main slreet.
Boyle: I can appreciate Russ' concern saying I don't want to spend a lot of money.
Russ Pauly: Whether it's a car wash or not.
Boyle: Having an architecture draw plans and go through the whole thing. Present it and be
told hey no. We're not going to do anything so I'm not quiie sure what the direction is for
him to proceed from here. I think that's what you're looidng for.
Russ Pauly: Basically that's it, right. I mean there is no moratorium offidally on building
automotive relal~xi businesses on Highway 5. There is, it's zoned for that use. Legally the
city can't stop it if you meet the criin/a. But you know like I said, we're not here to be in a
grudge match or anything like that. I've been a reddent of this comrmmity all my life.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
John's grown up here. You know we want to work with the city of Challhassen. I see
people coming into this town all the time and getting what they want. Well I'm just, you
know, I'm just here to ~ind out what the city will do for me you know and these are people
that are coming in from nowhere that have never had a vested interest in _this cx)mmunity
before and you know, it's like I saki. We've been long time residents here and I don't know
if that accounts for anything but I would certainly hope so.
Robbins: With regard ~o the moratorium on the car related, you know the auto reline. You
know we could just as well have said, food rehted or anything else related. Why we pick on
auto related, I'm not sure why that was ever done and I'm not privy to that information but I
think we want to look at the picture here of putting in a building. Some business. Whether
it's auto, food, you know whatever the circums~ are. Why we set a moratorium on auto,
I think personally it's unfair.
Boyle: I think using the word moratorium is inc~
Robbins: Yeah, but that's the way it was worded to Russ right now because he's got an auto
related project
Chmiel: And Charlie I guess what I was telling him was the fact that this is what was
discussed. I was being very open with saying what was being discussed. And auto related
was one of those issues that were talked about. But anything related as well as to a fast food
sendce, other kinds of co~ buildings that could come in are also being looked at as
well It's just not that singling out but that's the way it started out with discussion.
Boyle: Well I think that, and you also staled Don flint there's a l~xporary hold and I think
that's maybe the bellrr ~em~inology to be used until the Planning Commission goes through
this Highway 5 corridor plan which they're trying to get done by 12-15. And I think maybe
at that point in time we re-address.
Russ Pauly: $o really at this point what you're saying is, it's not a no and it's not a yes. It's
a maybe. It's a definite maybe. Come back in January and find out.
Chmiel: You know what I'd do Russ is, I've seen what you're proposing because you did
show that to me and we ~lked about this what, 3 months ago. 4 months ago. And it is a
nice looking facility. No question. But I'm only one member on that Coundl and Mike is
also on Council as well and I think it probably would be good to come back in }'anuary. I
don't think you've contemplal~ doing much of anything right now as far as starting any
construction. And I don't know that but you do. But I think coming back at a later time.
I'd suggest thai you probably bring along those drawings that you do have and that rendition
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
portion and at least then present it at that particular time.
Russ Pauly: Would you recommend getting on the agenda at that point or just come back for
an informal discussion like this or?
Chmiel: Well, I think.
Russ Pauly: You ~ me how to approach it. I guess that's what I'm here for.
Chmiel: I think probably what would be best to do is just come back on that informal kind
of basis. I think the direction would probably be there by that time. At least I hope so. If
we're going to know where we're going by by lanuary. We should probably have that at the
first Council meeting.
Gerhardtz I'd also suggest that Russ meet with the planning staff. Sit down and you know
see how thc site really lays out for thc type of car wash that he's proposing.
Chmiel: Well I think he's had some discussion with them.
Russ Pauly: Right I've met with Paul several times.
Gerhardt: And the only concern that Paul
Russ Pauly: Well his concern was what was directed to him as far as from the Council's
point of view.
Chrniel: Yeah, and he's right
Russ Pauly: Lilce I said when we went in initially they just, you know they gave us a booklet
and it had all the lots laid out and they said it can go here, here, here, here, and here. And
you know we looked at the different lots. One of the spots that I lhink they would ~ to
steer us towards is down by where they were going to build that Abra-Goodyear which is that
ever going to happen?
Chmiel: Goodyear is breaking ground.
Boyle: They broke ground today didn't they?
Chmiel: Yep.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Russ Pauly: But there's no, you'd be really ~ in there and it wouldn't really be a good
spot for us. We wouldn't have much visibility. I know how Chanlu~sen is with their signs
so you know they wouldn't let you put a big sign on the highway so there wouldn't be much
point in bnildlng it if you can't see it. So that's why I guess the visibility thing is, it's an
important part of the building.
Chrniel: What would it cost to build something like this?
Russ Pauly: Well the estimates that we've had Don. We're looking at a total project cost of
you know probably around a million dollars. We've come up with some that arc a little less
but when you go building and equipment, it's going to be roughly a million dollars. We'd
like to see it at 900 or 850 but it's going to be closet to a million. You know one of the
things that have hiked the costs up arc again the soil corrections that's going to be required
for that property.
Chmiel: Yeah, and hopefully you don't run into soil correction problems as we did on CR
17.
Russ Pauly: Oh this new, where they're trying to.
Chmieh On Powers Blvd.
Russ Pauly: Is that some of what's held that up?
Chmiel: Yeah. I'm surprised that the road stood where it was at without sag~ng and going
right down. But yeah, and there's a lot of areas that they're finding that there's more of that
§ood loon stuff there than you really want.
Russ Pauly: This lot has about 45 or 50 feet of it so it's, just on one end. Actually the end
that's closest to the motel is pretty decent. It's just the one tip.
Chmiel: You know we took soil borings, and just for your information. We took soil
borings on CR 17 and we missed that. Didn't know that it existed but it was right under the
road and often times if you don't have enough soft borings you can miss something by 5 feet
and wind up with a lot more problems as far as the soils are concerned.
Russ Pauly: Well the company that did it is a pretty reputable firm so.
Chmiel: Well yeah and I think you should see is where they actually took those and they
have drawings showing where all the soft borings are and what depths and what it consists of.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Russ Pauly: Exactly. It's a full report.
Mason: Russ, I was just going to say. You know I think, and I'm not speaking for myself
now. I think I'm speaking for the mood of the Council I think you're facing an uphill
battle. But I'm not saying I don't think it will happen either. I mean there clearly is a mood,
and I'm still a little mystified as to why we should not have any auto reia~ uses in town but
that's, what can I say.
Chmiel: We take all our car repairs to Eden Prairie.
Russ Pauly: What do they think they're going to bu/ld on the highway?
Mason: Well that's a question that deserves, yeah. Well that's a question that desentes an
answer. I agree with you. But I do think, never say no because like you say, that's an
allowable use on that spot right now. But I guess you know if you continue to go ahead with
it, I think if you've been following Coundl at all, landscaping, aesthetics, that kind of stuff is
of paramount importance fight now.
Russ Pauly: As long as...you can't be unreasonable.
Mason: Right, and who decides what's reasonable and unreas~le. You know, I mean.
Russ Pauly: It's been done in the past. They can't change the rules halfway through the
game.
Mason: Right but I just think anything that you do do, do it the best that you can possibly
can and I think that would help anything that you had going.
Russ Pauly: I've got one other _thing I'd like to address as long as I have your attention.
We're currently frying to make a deal on that Kenny's property across the street and what I'm
here to ask is, you know if that doesn't work out you know, I know we had lalked at one
point about acq~g that. If we acq~ that propal3~ if there would be a way that the
liRA could get involved in helping us with some of the assessments that are against that
property. It's been sitting there since January pretty much empty. It's really not much of an
asset the way it looks to the community. If we were to go in there nnd tske that building
over, we would keep the dry cleaners there but the rest of the building we wonld_ mm into
you know, a bar and restatwant. I guess my question would be at this point, you know we
have an inte~-~st in the building. If that doesn't work out we also, I'm also here to ask ff
there's a possibility of the extension of our lease where we're cm'tc-ntly located. Just some
things for thought and if you have some feedback for me, I'd like to ~ it along with me
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
and maybe come back on the agenda at a later date.
Chmiel: I think maybe Todd, can you address some of that?
Bohn: We don't have any plans right now to tear that building down, as fl~ as like the day
you move out.
Chmiel: Well there again, that's in that Vision 2002. Another discussion that was done with
that that we've had. In fact that was some of the thoughts and.
Gerhardt: To address the conce~s. If Russ would move over to the Kenny's builtting, again
if he should happen to go in there and renovate the building. Increase the market value of
that building. They have taken advantage of your existing program, 3 years worth of
increment but I've seen plans of what Russ is looking at doing to that facility and I think
Odin Sharer, the County Assessor would come in there and determine that Russ is going w
improve this place a little bit up and above what he has for market value. So in lieu of that,
he would pay additional taxes. And from those additional taxes that Russ would generate off
that site, he could take advantage of your 3 year program and that could assist in writing
down some of those specials. Now as to the Pony/Pauly~us site itself, Russ is ~
that hi.~ lease does end at the end of May or beginning of May.
Russ Pauly: First of lune.
Gerhardt: Yeah, end of May in '94. And you're also ~ that during these vision
meetings some of the comments brought up is that some people felt that would be where the
library would go. Some people like the idea of expanding the area for a park. Some people
like the idea of enhancing the presence of old St. Hubert's and in the next 2 to 3 months I
will be bringing back to you a request to make renovations to that church and brining it into
the year 2000. The new roof and whatever else, whoever I hire to figm~ out what's wrong
with the building because I think there might be some ~ problems down the line in
the trusses and maybe some foundation stuff...woricing out some agreements with St. Hubert's
and...church people. But as to the extension you know, that's your call. The only question I
would have...supported that extension would be why are we giving it? You know. Until we
figure out what we're going to do with the area. We worked our anangements way back
when. We tried to put facades on the building. That didn't work. And then you came in
and you purchase~ the buildings and your plans were to raise, or demo these buildings. So if
it's give Russ time to stay in there so he can move inW his new spot, you know those are
some of the questions that need to be answered.
10
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Robbins: But with what the, you know the May 1st. I'm not sure whether it's May or Sune
or whatever the expiration date is of the Pauly lease. I think there's also something in there,
we have to notify them within x number of days prior to that and I guess just in fairness to
Russ. You know if I was a busines~ perso~ I guess I would want to be advised...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Russ Pauly: ...it's in bad shape. It's a 28 year old building you know and there isn't
anything when Kenny's left there, they've got, that's why they haven't had any success
leasing thaL I've talked to Brad lohnson several times and he said they walk somebody in
that place and they just mm around and walk fight back out. Because Mason and the bunch
that own it, they don't want to stick a nickel in it and at this point you're not going to lease it
with the way that thing looks. It's a 28 year old roof. It's a 28 year old heating and air
conditioning. Some of the electrical and that's been upgraded but for my use I'd have to
sprinkler the building and you know it doesn't have a big enough watermain to even do that.
So you'd have to bring in a bigger main from the, well actually the street I believe that goe~
behind the building is where the wamnnain runs so that wouldn't be that expensive to do that
but you know you're looking at probably $28,000.00 just to sprinkle a building.
Robbins: Would the size of the building, would that be comp;arable to, for parting and things
of that nature, would that still work the~?
Russ Pauly: I talked to Fred Hoisington today about that ~ we had some discussions
about that and I need to talk to Paul Krauss about that. Tomorww in fact I've got a phone
call in for him but the situation is basically we've got a 6,200 square foot building right now.
The Kenny's and pizza operation is a 9,000 square foot bu/lding. By the time you put
offices, walk-in coolers, storage space, we're probably looking at about a 6,000 square foot
bar and restaurant. The same thing as what we currently have basically. I think one of the
concerns they had when they looked at that 9,000 square feet, they thought wow. That could
be a huge bar and restaurant. You only have 6,200 square feet now but all of our office and
storage is in the basement and that building has no basement. So we're going to be looking
at probably about the same size operation and I discussed it with Fred today.' He said that
based on that, he said I saw the plan but he said when you look at 9,000 square feet, he said I
thought that was a little bit but he said when you put it to me in those terms, he says you're
right. He says you're going to be about the same size as what you are now. So he said ff
Paul calls him with those concerns, he said he feels that that's enough parking for that
operation. Our peak hours. He did a study on our traffic patterns and that and he concluded
that it wouldn't affe~ the medical building because of our customers come between 15:00 and
6:00 and that traffic at the medical building is pretty much out of there by then. So he felt
that that wasn't going to be a major factor. But I've heard complaints from some of those
11
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
people, as soon as the rumors sumed to fly that we were looking at that property, you know
their first concern was, they weren't going to have any psriHng.
Robbins: Taken the choices. Let's just throw it that way in t~ms of modification of th~
Kenny property for your needs versus staying in your sim that you've got now existingly.
Assuming that we could work out the lease for one year, which would work out better for
you?
Russ Pauly: Well, if we can, it all depends on what happens with, I guess basically if the
Kenny's property doesn't happen, obviously I'd be thrilled to death to re-negotiate the lease
for any expansion or any period of time but my first and foremost concern is to try and
acquire the property across the street
Bohn: What's the lease that Edina Realty's got in there?
Russ Pauly: That's just a temporary. They signed a 6 month agreement and I think given 30
or 60 days notice they have to vacate the ~ at any ~me. This is just a temparary
office...~th that information as soon ~mors started flying around...permanent kase holder.
Bohn: Well they're planning to come over to Mad~ Blvd I think. The F. dina Realty.
Russ Pauly: I'm not sure.
Chmiel: Let me ask a quick question, so you don't spin wheels either. There's a setback
requirement from residential with any on or off sale liquors. What was that setback
requirement, and I can't remcm~ it right off hand.
Cmflm~t: Oh, I want to say 150 but.
Chmiel: No, it was more than that.
Russ Pauly: Karen checked into that for us.
Chmiel: Oh did she.
Russ Pauly: When we lalked about this ond it meets all thc g~fidelines.
Chmiel: Okay. I just didn't want you to spin w~
12
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Russ Pauly: No, because we talked about that. The first concern obviously is the church
and the school. You know we've been good neighbors to them for, well since 1934 so you
know we haven't had any problems with. We've gone through a lot of priests in that period
of time and we seem to get along with all of them so. And I know the church is actively
pursuing that property also. I don't know, they're telling me that they're still calihg but you
know they're not offering enough obviously. Because they're running out of room in that,
Chmicl: Yeah, thcy want to expand or movc or do something.
Russ Pauly: But I know we checked into the setback situation as far as what the city had for
guidelines and if I'm not mistaken, they didn't really have much. They had to go by State,
they had to go by State guidelines.
Gerhardt: I thought there was something in there on churches though_
Russ Pauly: Was there7 I don't recall but I know...
Chrrfiel: Yeah, residential and churches were.
Gerhardt: She said you had to, I asked her today but I didn't ask about the church...going to
relocate...
Russ Pauly: I guess another thing is what do you...Council have any problem, I mean as long
as it meets all the codes and if Frod Hoisington recommends the parking is fine, they
wouldn't have a problem with thaC It's hard to say.
Chmieh Yeah, I don't know. I mean I really can't answer.
Russ Pauly: Because we're going to improve the ~ obviously. I mean even though
they put that facade on the building, it's still, it looks bad. The paint has faded and they just
didn't do a very good job when they did thac
Chmiel: And I think too that a discussion regarding exten~on of it, it sounded like 3 of the
commissioners didn't have any problem and I _think if it went on a month to month kind of
basis, you know and depen_ding upon what's finally decided with the 2002 vision. Whether it
would go, what do we require in rent?
Gerhardt: Right now they're just paying the real estate taxes...I mean they're covedug the
taxes and the cost of the phone. And that's not reflected on anything but the agreement that
13
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
we entered inw with them reflects sort of less cash than we had to put out as part of the
purchase of the building. So the arrangement msd_e, was we'll give you this much money
based on whatever revenues you may collect over the next 4 years.
Russ Pauly: You made that ageen~nt with my dad. I pay rent.
Gerhardt: Well he passed it on...purchase that property. That sll we had to do is pay the cost
of all utilities and taxes. We would not take a real estate fee or any cost associaled with
that..
Chrniel: Yeah, that's reasonable.
Bohn: Any questions?
Boyle: Well Russ, did you learn all you wanted to know?
Russ Pauly: Well yeah, I've learned a bunch. But I guess at this point, you know if there's
anything that you would want me to bring or as far as with the Keany's operation across the
street. You know is there anything I can do?
Bohn: Not that I can think of. Gary?
Boyle: I have no idea what the next step is. I thinl: it's a good question.
Gexhardt: There's about/5 questions you've got out there Russ. If you want to know if
there's, I think it's just going tln'ough the process. If you've, I mean you've got a good site
plan already put wgether. I guess I'd go that route first and as we talked earlier today, it
would be, I'd try the liquor license _thing as being the first issue. That's going to be the
biggest hurdle. You can get all those site plans and evetyflfing else approved but if you don't
get the liquor license, I see that as being the biggest issue before...and see if that thing will
transfer over there. And go through the process for that. I think that will answer a lot of
questions,
Russ Pauly: How qulcldy would that be able to get on the Council?
Geltu~t: I'd say fairly quickly. I ~ they still have to do that seamh thing and that takes
a couple of weeks. I'd say as soon as you fill out the application, we'll get started on it. It's
usually about a month, month and a half.
Russ Pauly: Again we're pressed for time. That first of the year date is.
14
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
C-erhardt~ Yeah, Council meets once in December and Decem_l~r's 2 weeks away.
Chmieh And you have the end of May as your termination.
Gerhardt: Well he should know, he's not going to purchase Kenny's...not get a liquor license.
Chn~el: Right. That's one of the first things to pursue.
Gerhardt: There's only one guy in the Twin Cities I know that will buy a horse track and not
know if he gets to open...
Russ Pauly: Well if you had that k/nd of money you wouldn't care.
answers a lot of my questions. I appreciate your time and thanks.
Gerhardt: Yeah, give Karen a call tomorrow and see...
Well, I guess that
Russ Pauly: AlrighL thanks Todd.
Bohn: Anyone else wish to address the HRA at this time?
APPROVAL OF BIDS FOR HANUS BUll.DING SITE IMPROVF._Mg.~,
Robbins: I would move that we concur with staff.
Gerhardt: We rook, and I'm going without my report in front of me but at our October
meeting you looked at bids for the Hanus remodeling. Not only the remodeling but for the
parking lot construction and with that staff was directed to go back and rebid the project and
giving direction in those plans and specs to extend the consu'uction period out into the spring
and part of the summer hoping that we would get more favorable bids on the project. With
that, giving that flexibility, we were able to save approximately $5,000.00 in re-bi_d_ding that
project. The results of those bids are includexi in your report. Buck Blacktop was the low
bidder. I met with a representative of Buck Blacktopping. He's a local resident that works
for the company. Bob Peierson. He lives off of TH 101 and I think Bob would do an
excellent job on this...
Chmieh How many square feet are we talking? Of that lot in size. Or how many cubic
yards of blacktop is going to be laid?
Gerhardt: I had...specifica~ons...
15
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Chrniel: Yeah, and I look at what the engineer's estimate was. It was $160,000.00 plus
$961.25 and of course they come under that bid of his, or his estimate I should say for
$159,000.00 and you're saying we're going to save approximately $5,000.00.
Gerhardt: The biggest part of it, you know we did the blacktopping through the...
Chh,ich Are those cement curbings?
Gerhardt: Yes.
Chmicl: I see blacktop going down and I see blac~ curbings. I wouldn't want to see that
because mine are still missing.
Gerhardt: With this you've got a lot of landscaping and berming that's going along with that
too...
Boyle: But that's not in this cost?
Gerhardt: Yes.
Boyle: Oh, it is in there? Okay.
Gerhardt: ...the bid tabulations.
Robbins: Right hcrc.
Gerhardt: Are they in there7 They've got per item. How many trees they...
Chmieh I was just trying to come up with and see what the cost is per either cubic yards or
square foot.
Gerhardt: The bids were alL.with the exception of Muellcr & $ons...and it Wasn't a drastic
change from thc last time...This is, to get this many people to bid on a project of this size is
pretty good.
Boyle: I believe there's a motion on the floor to accept staff's recommendation. I would
second that motion.
16
Housing and Redevelo~t Authority - November 18, 1993
Robbins moved, Boyle seconded that the LIRA award the bid to Buck Blacktop Inc. for
the bid price of $1S9,820.66 and the alternate bid for $1,299.75 for the Hnnm Building
site improvements. All voted in favor and the motion carried ummimous/y.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF 1994 BUDGET.
Gerhardt: The 1994 budget, there's no large drastic changes from last year. I've also
attached the '94 goals on there. I quickly put those together. If there's anything that I may
have missed. I incorporated looking at housing. Incorporated public trail system that
Chairman Bohn mentioned at the last meeting. There are monies in the budget to review that
with S~rgar looking at options...and they said they could do that. And there is also a leuer
from Todd Hoffman requesting $5,000.00 assistance in getting the February Festival off to a
good start. He also gave a good outline of the events and when they would occur and what
would be included. Other than that, a good share of the cost that you have is in...capital
projects...so those are not included in this budget This is basically...to carry out and
managing the tax increment disUict
Chmiel: Taking these sahries as we have them, and wages. I noticed we've gone from
$118,000.00 to $126,000.00. How are those figures being disUibute~
Gerhardt: If you go back to my report in the back where it says page 96. We're not
proposing to change it...We're slowly, even though there was a change over...staff off of the
lIRA budget and brining them back inw the general funding. If we were to get rid of _this
tax increment district today, the city would not see a large revenue windfall We would noL..
because of the fiscal disparities and the contributions that would go back and...We're
estimating somewhere between $11~0,000.00 to $200,000.00 that we would try to have to
make up through the general fund. And I'm not kidding about that. Some people don't
believe that but that's a fact. So we're slowly going to bring that...so we're not getting one
big hit in the year 2000 comes into effect.
Robbins: Ah Todd, with relation to the budget, this is more of a question relaxed to it in
terms of people have asked me does the HRA have a bank account of it's own or a checking
account of it's own? Do we publish statements or is it public knowledge what's in quote "the
HRA checking account"? Is that something that's a public knowledge or is it something that
we kind of hide from people or you know, where does _this number show up?
Gerhardt: If anybody's interested, there's a...up at the County. We're audited every year on
the lIRA funds~ There's a whole section in there. We do not have to do that but we do do
it. We ask thc auditors to come in and check our books on that to show where the dollars arc
spent and where they're allocated. If anybody wants to come in and look at that, I can go
17
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
back a number of years and show them the audited books. And then as to the capital projects
that you run, you can show those to them. Where the expenditures have been made on each
of the capital projects. And there's also what we call the B&R's, The budget reports that
operate off of this. I mean this is a, I can show you all thc expendi~ that they approve
each month. There's a whole recording mechanism on that. If they want to see what the
HRA spent on this...I can go through the sheets. I mean you get copies of the review sheet.
Jean's got a whole book showing what you've spent your money on. We can show them
those for the back years and that. We can show them audited numbers. Where you're debt
is. Where your revenues are. They're public knowledge...We're not required to do it. We're
not required to publish in the paper any slamnents of revenues or expenditures. I don't know
if we do it anyway. I think we might. I'm not sure about that.
Robbins: Thank you.
Chrniel: Yeah. I think there's been some real misconceptions by a lot of people in town and
I just had a question posed to me just recently as well That they assumed that we had $25
million...in the liRA and that was a goal set that was established at one time a long time ago.
We did have $11 million.
Robbins: It was $18 million you know...
Clnniel: ...keeps tumbling down but fight now we have about 4+. Yeah, we only have about
$4 million plus now. With the last computation that we had with those in Hennepin County
and discussion, or in Court I should say. With the County. And we wound up losing that
particular case. So I think if people realize the fact that those books are there. Anybody has
accessibility to them. That's public information.
Boyle: I think there's a lot of misunderstanding. I know even the other night at the focus
group session. I heard a comment, well yeah. The HRA used to have $11 million but now
there's only $4 million because they spent a lot. I thought, I mean there really is a lot of
misconception of what it is and even the $4 million is not money in the bank today that some
people think we're sitting on $4 million in the bank and drawing interest. I mean that's the
projections as I understand it. It's going to happen between now and the year 2000 with
revenue coming in and how we budget it. It's just a misunderstanding.
Gerhardt: These vision meetings is a way to prioritize the $4 1/2 million. You spent a lot of
money. I ~ some people forget why the HRA was creauxL It was basically to pay for
the public improvements in the downtown and industrial pazk. You know and it's expensive
to do those kinds of things. You also have the...Inslant Webb, United Mailing, Victary
Envelope are a perfea example of those incentives. And then you've also taken an
18
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
aggressive stand in acq~g dilapidated buildings. I mean that's why you bought the
Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus site you know. They didn't want to renovate it. They wanted...and so
that's why we went in there and...The Red-E-Mix site. Another one. The Taco Shop. That's
where your money's going and thca'e's not, I xnean if you did have $25 million...
Boyle: We probably would have done it the same if we had to do it over ri~t?
Gerhardt Yeah. I ~ look at the benefits that you've got. The Medical Arts. The hoteL..
Boyle: I just have one question on the budget Todd and it has to do with the $10,000.00
promotional services. Yeah, promotional expenses and...
(There was a tape change at this point in thc discussion.)
Boyle: ...service organizations, etc, then that could be reduced, is that correct?
Gerhardt: Yes. We're always the last one. We're the catch all If everybody you know...
Chrislmas and gives generously. You know Todd only comes to us as a scapegoat. He's
~g short and all his programs are...
Boyle: And that's the max so we're just.
Robbins: I guess I would like to, not...it says included for your assistance for $5,000.00 I
would hate to tbinlr that we would not sponsor a winter festival, whaler _this $5,000.00 is
used for because the total billing came to be $5,001.00. I guess I would, I'm not sure if I
want to say it $5,010.00 or whatever but I'd hate for it not to be conducted if it was over this
$5,000.00 figure because I think it's well worthwhile for us to put in money of that nature.
Gerhardt: If we go over the $5,000.00 mark, we can come back and make a budget
adjustment. Maybe ahead of time...formal request of the HRA. I thinir you can't give Todd a
blank check.
Chmiel: No, he's too good of a car salesman.
Mason: There's a song about take thc money and run I think.
Robbins: But thc liRA, we want to get recognition and some of our dollars do go to the Park
and Rec and I thinl~ one way of doing it, with the 4th of July, the winter, the spring, the
festivals that we do spend some money on for HRA and I think this is a way to do it and I
just would not want to see us halt it because of a technicality in the contract.
19
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Gerhardt: I think that $$,000.00 should be more than adequate. Todd is good at geuing other
businesses. I think he will ultimately probably add to thc pwgram...He usually, I think that's
more than adequate...and if he does need more, you know we could go ahead and bring it
back to you at that time and he'll have e, stimat~ and things lilm that...~c way I hear Mr.
Robbins speaking is that if he wants more money, that he should come back and ask for it
and then you can consider it then.
Boyle: Wr~thin reason.
Bohn: Do we have a motion?
Robbins: I would move that we take staff's consideration on item number 3 for the budget
with the comment that the, looking at that $5,000.00 on promotion expense as being a
guideline with discretion used on that n~m~her.
Boyle: Okay, this is all one motion. I mean we're approvin! the budget under this motion
and the $5,000.00 for Park and Rec, is this correct? Under one motion.
Robbins: Or by chance would you like me to rephrase .it and make it two motions?
Chmiel: Well I was thinking mo Char~ would we also have the HRA goals as a part of
that?
Robbins: Don, I'm sorry. What was your connnent7
Chmiel: Regarding the liRA goals for 1994. Do we need a motion on goals at all?
Gerhardt: You don't need to go over it now. I'll put that back on in lanuary. You can take
the month of December to think about any other things that you want to add to that.
Mason: We get Decemb~ off7
Gerhardt: They want to bring you in with Fred to talk about some of the projects and we
thought a 5:00 meeting and that we would have.., some meal and kind of a, just a short one
hour meeting and...diso~ some of the vision planning that we've had.
Boyle: In December?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Mason: Do we have a date for that yet?
Chn~el: Decemlx~ 9th. h looks like I've got two things scheduled. Public Safety at 7:00
and HRA at 7:30.
Gerhardt: What's the third Thm-sday?
Mason: 16th.
Chmiel: Yeah, that'd be the 16th as the third Thursday.
~t: Do you want to do it the 16th or do you want to do it the week before? ~ that
Public Safety the week before7
Chrniel: Yeah, I'd like the 16th if everybody's going to be azonnd_
Boyle: 16th's okay with me.
Mason: And we're talking a 5:00 shot here?
Gerhardt: Yeah. 5:00 nmefing and we'll have food available,
Chmiel: Down here or upstairs?
Gerhardt: Courtyard.
Mason: I would hope at that time of year, consid_erhlg the time here, the food would have
some son of festive.
Gerhardt: Whatever you want.
Boyle: The pizza will be in the shape of a Santa Claus...
Gerhardt: ...but I don't know if they do meals or not.
Robbins: Exccllent idea. Talk to the Riv. Excellent idea.
Bohn: They have take out.
Go'hardt: Maybe the chickcn sandwich type of thing. Something a little bit.
21
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Chmieh Steak sandwich.
Robbins: Chicken and ribs kind of Ihing. That'd be an excellent idea. 'I'nere's a motion on
the floor that we've accepted the budgeted as stated and I'd still like discussion. Not
discussion. I'd like that $5,000.00 to be modified within reason by the Park Director.
Bohn: Is there a second7
Chmieh I'!1 second it.
Bohn: Discussion.
Boyle: I guess I don't know what's within reason but that's fine. As long as it's not an
Chmich It will come back before us.
Robbins moved, Chmiei seconded that the lIRA adopt the 1994 budget for the Housing
and Redevelopment Authority ns proposed with the note that the $S,000.00 for
pronmedonal expenses be used ns a guideline. All voted in hvor and the motion (tarried
unanimously.
Gerhardt: I hear both of you and I think I can use both concerns on that. I hear Charlie
saying that he has...
Mason: Well as long as thc fireworks are in fact spectacular as I believe the memo says they
will be. In fact we have a guarantee on that.
Gerhardt: ...your memo may come back to haunt you.
Chrniel: We're going to do this on Lake Susan, from what I read. Will we have any given
problems with any of thc residents in and adjacent to Lake Susan?
Bohn: How st~out parking over there?
Chmieh And will this in any way affect with all the booms that will go off. Rosemount
Industries.
Gerhardt: We can contact Rosemount and let them know.
22
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Chmiel: Just find out because they may have some type of sensitive equipmen_ t within that
could cause problems far them.
Gerhardt: Yeah, we'll ask then~..we have the cap~'ty of notifying those people adjacent to
the lake that we're planning this and I do not know...
UPDATE OF THE VISION 2002 PLANNING PROCESS.
Gerhardt~ I put this on the agenda bexause I know a couple of the HRA members couldn't
make the first meeting and I wanted to get the information to you and outline how well that
first session really went. It was very well attended. 75 people were there and I think they
had a lot of fun. They were serious about it. There was no playing around. Everybody sat
down and...uying to create a vision...it led itself to be fun. The second one was a little more
difficult because...priaritize and everybody has their own vision of how things should occur
and when things should occur and where things should be. That part of the process...but I
think of the, I think there were 10...out there. You know everybody was able to come up
with a priority list. $o I'm just excited about the process. People getting that involved and a
mix of people that we invited to it. You know it was not just people involved in the city. It
was a mix of people throughout the commtmity that had concerns regarding how the city was
developed over the years and if you read Tim McGee's article today in the paper, you know
that's not the same guy that wrote the article about the traffic signals. I mean...I said this is
what happens when you get involved. This is what happens when you get the knowledge
and...you understand what's going on. You've got to stay involved and you've got to go to
some of these meetings to find out what's going on. He did that and he congratulated the
HRA...going through mis process.
Chrrdel: Was that in today's paper?
Bohn: Yeah.
C3miel: I haven't re. ad it yet.
Bohn: Editorial section.
Gerhardt: I take anything back.
Mason: I was a well written column-
Boyle: I think he gives a much better appreciation too to the public of the prioritizing
process that the city has to go through to ~ry to please thc majority. And the more people
23
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
you can get in to sit in and realize what that is, the more they aPl~eci~ the big picun'e.
Mason: That's a real good point.
Gerhardt: I think Fred has done a great job in...
APPROVAL OF BILLS.
Bohn: Can wc go on to approval of bills?
Chrniel: $o moved.
Robbins: Second.
Bohn: Discussion.
Chmiel: Discussion yes. I want to have discussion too. Thank you.
Robbins: The office equipment from PC Express. What is that all about?
Gerhardt: ...we're continning to network...system so I can talk to Don. Don can talk to me.
In the budget each year we usually lay out approximately $10,000.00...I'm sure that that's
part of the...
Chmiel: Did you have any more Charlie?
Robbins: No, none.
Chmiel: I just had one question too. $400.~. Tom Chaffee for repair and maintenance of
equipment. What was that for?
~t: I'm wondering if Tom spent a check in fixing or buying some equipment for our
computer syslm~..
Chmiek It doesn't say.
Gerhardu I can go up and pull that check and get that on the ne0k~ agend~..That would be
my guess is that he personally wrote a check. Tom...so~ he goes out and buy the par~
and write a personal check and reimburse himself. But I'll check.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority - November 18, 1993
Chmiel moved, Robbins seconded to approve the nRA Accounts Payable with an
explanation back at the next meeting regar~ the $400.00 check to Tom Chaffee. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Gerhardt: Is that with the except/on of the Tom Chaffee bill and we'll get that one next
time7
Chmicl: No, I would say approve that but I want information back as to what it was.
Chmiei moved, Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in eavor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Don Ashwonh
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim