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1992 02 20CHANH~SSEN HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 20, 1992 Vice Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Tom Workman, Don Chmtel, Jim Bohn, and Charlie Robbins MEMBERS ABSENT: Clark Horn STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive Director; and Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Coordinator - APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Chmiel moved, Workman seconded to approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority dated January 23, 1992 as presented. AiI voted in favor except Robbins who abstained and the motion carried. VISITOR PRESENTATION: None. PRESENTATION BY EOS'ARCHITECTS REG~RD]:;NG .CITY CENTER PARK AND THE DESIGN ALTERNATIVES FOR THI~ FOLLOWIN~ AREAS: A. FUTURE EXPANSION OF CITY H~M_L. lB. NORTH FRONTAGE ROialD/CITY HAl.I. ENTRANCt~. C. ALTERNATIVE STAGE DESIGNS, Ashworth: Some of the issues that have been lacking or that the HRA has had questions to and asked staff to respond to, it involved the City Hall space needs. If we go through an ultimate construction addition onto this building, where might the front door at that point be. Do we have sufficient space to house employees into the' future? Wil'l some of the assumptions that are being made under this City Center Park Plan actually work? To respond to those questions I've asked EOS to basically respond. Bert Haglund is here to do that. The second component has been the park gazebo shelter stage. I think there's been continuous-questions in terms of how is this thing going to really function. I mean we've got this concert growth to the rear and we're talking about a plaza area in the front and we're showing this stage area, how does this actually function? And again I've asked EOS to address that. I think in doing that they'll show you some alternative designs and they go from large to small and things inbetween. When they do that they're really responding more to the architecture. What type of an 'element is going.to sit well, function well? You're not really talking about the programming side so' to answer the question as to which alternative might best be used, you've got to re-examine how this is going to be programmed. How it's going to be used. That's where I've asked Todd Hoffman to really prepare a list that would go through that and again Todd is here this evening to respond to questions. I think that either he or Barry will be presenting those. Finally once you"ye tested the programming back against the architectural element, You then have to re-examine the original concept plan and say, how is all of this going to fit together? And so then I've asked Barry Warner to finish off the presentation on this item with ki-nd of a discus'sion. Now does the overall development plan meet those needs. There's one other question that Barry will first respond to and that was, if you're going to have a 4th of July here, you're going to have Oktoberfest, you're going to have all of these activities, is it reasonable that the parking that we're showing in Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 2 this area is going to be sufficient for those. And so Barry's done some work in that area as well trying to respond to those questions. With that I'll let or introduce again BuTt to have him respond to the question of City Hall space needs as well as the initial work that they've done in terms of what this stage area might look like. Bert Haglund= Thanks Don. Wasn't sure what the format was going to be tonight. Whether we should set up easels and have a look at what we've done in that way or if we'd sit at the table and do it that way but I think based on how we're .seated ! should set up the easels that we've bought. Or what do you think Don? Ashworth: I think you can just put those in front of the HRA, if you don't mind. Tom, if you'd like to come up while they're going through that. number of these are overlays so if you put them on a board type of thing, don't know that they are as easy to see. We do have an easel if you Prefer doing it that way. Chmiel: I think if we're here and everbody could see it. Bert Haglund: As Don mentioned, my name is Bert' Haglund. I'm Vice President of EO$ Architecture and we are working on the senior center project. I think that was mentioned also. And. so this was...taking a look at the building. Just as a reference point to begin with, I know that this is the master plan that you have most recently been working with Barry on. I think this is where that had been left off. Chmiel: There were still some modifications that have been done to what's existing. Bert Haglund: For purposes of just looking at the building itself, this on the northwest corner here is in the plan being shown ~illed out if you will or built out so it would complete the picture of the building. And the way this was shown, it's shown in just a very symmetrical arrangement. Just mirroring what's existing on the east side. And taking a look at, okay let's take a look at how might that plan actually be arranged. We have · taken this floor plan and, we've taken a look at what you have now for the existing floor plan. That again over here has added that last quadrant of the building. A couple of main things 'I'd like to point out about. How that begins to affect the building is that first of all the blue we've shown here the primary circulation of the corridor pattern of the building. Right now these that are in solid blue'exist as well as over here. And of course with this addition that would simply continue and then connect back like this. It may be that when this is constructed, that with the rearrangement of departments and offices and so forth, that would naturally be part of that project. That it may be worthwhile to consider connecting straight through here which does not exist. These are offices... That may or may not be...just depending on what the needs are. But the circulation pattern is, of course was intended to connect through like there and gives a fair amount of useable space again. This is...and this upper floor is about 4,100-4,200 square feet... We expect there would be another stair down here which would be needed for Code reasons .... there needs to be an elevator somewhere in that part of the addition, because a building of that size, 2 story government building and so forth will need an elevator. And Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 3 then also we have shown over in this corner a receiving area. Again we put those over in the far corner there thinking that that would be the kind of opposite the entrance...back side of the building. However, this building doesn't really have what you'd call a thru back side. Because if you drive around it and the south is a front, the east is a front face and the north becomes a front face so it really doesn't have a rear but this would be about as close... So we think that that makes a logical arrangement of space, at least at this time. On the lower board, again we've shown the corridor and the clrcul~tion in blue. This lower left corner here, the southwest corner of the building, this is where the senior center is going to be built up. That project will include an addition of this vestibule. Then of course that would just as it does on the east side, connect up through the corridor system back and then to a stairs here again.giving a good amount of space, useable space. The elevator, coming down. You can have a mechanical room. Again how that space will be divided up in the future we don't know yet. But it does afford a'fairly good amount of space added to the building. In taking a look at a city, given it's current population and number of staff members, trying to relate that to some need in the future as the city is going to expand, we've taken a look at staff counts, departments and so forth and although that's again, at this point, it's hard to really predict what the staff load is going to be, it depends . a lot on the specific needs of the city and so forth. However, we feel that this will afford adequate space to serve the city's needs well into the future. And so we're comfortable in saying that. So that Just gives you a very general look at that. What that addition might consist of. How we might arrange the elevation and mechanically have the ceiling, stairs and so forth. Chmiel: What additional square footage are we talking up and lower? Bert Haglund: This? This addition would be about 4,000 to 4,200 square feet pet floor, gross area. And that compares with the total square footage that you have now is about 9,000 square feet. Chmiel: Okay. I have a question for Don. If what I'm looking at here is . the schedule that we see with where we're going to go with the master facility site plan and as I look at the '92-'97, each are going as different categories. If we vacate library from existing City Hall and we build another library, I see we will probably finish that in '95, if we were to go on that particular schedule. How many square feet do we have downstairs and would this accommodate the additional needs that we would need through '97 with that space? Ashworth: 2,900 square feet is the square footage associated with the existing library. 2,200 square feet was the original addition. We addition 700 square feet with the remodeling the wing that we placed down there. That does not include any of the hallway corridors, restrooms. That's solely dedicated library space. It does not include any of the storage area we provide for them. Yes, as part of the overall plan when we would remodel that area for seniors in that 1995 timeframe, I would anticipate that Park and Recreation would move into that particular area freeing space up above. $o I would not anticipate the necessity for the addition that Bert is talking about prior to sometime after the year 2000. 2001, 2, 3. -- Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 4 Chmiel: Okay. Bert Haglund: In taking a look at the point that that addition would be added to the building, how that might affect the building as a whole as you drive up to it. It's entrance point and so forth. Maybe we can spend' a few minutes on that. Right now the entrance to the building is here in the northeast corner. And essentially what happens is here you have a main entrance coming in and then you have a control point here to direct the public to which department they're headed for. When this is added to the building, adding quite an area. Also to the mass of the building from the exterior as you come up and you see the building. From the street and as you drive up to it. 'Our suggestion is that we consider with this reorienting the entrance to the building something like this. Where when this is completed, this facade of the building becomes much more it's face, if you will. The front of the building from the north. Also given the building of this size and how departments might be arranged in here, it gives an opportunity to come in more centrally to the building and then from a control point go to whichever direction You would choose to. When you think that this has a lot of merit, it needs to be really considered when thinking about completing the building. Robbing: On that, just by the way it's structured and knowing that the, we're saying to the north of where your proposed entrance is. That is where the school rinks, etc., how would you propose that to be arranged? Would that be what, parking lot then? That would be done away with or what's the flow of traffic then to enter that way? Bert Haglund: I think the flow of traffic would have to be. Robbins: I mean parking and all the other things too. Bert Haglund: Yeah. That's something that I think you'll find Barry wi.Il address a little later on tonight...fold this in with the ideas of the stage, the performing platform of the park and he'll show how he's taken that into account. There is some change, will need to be some change from what you have here. But there appears to be a workable way of doing'that and reorienting that entrance and making that work. So I think we'd best leave that to 8arty. So this has some significance as to how that site was arranged but again we think this has some... Chmiel: Do you have any idea in concept and design as to what that proposed entry would look like? Bert Haglund: We have taken a brief look at 'it. As a matter of fact I do have a simple elevation here of that door inside. Where this right here would be the face of the addition. Now how this would be treated has a lot, has to do entirely with what kind of architecture and...whatever that entrance might be when it is ultimately built out. But we want to have something here to focus your attention as you drive up to the building so that it's evident that there's the entrance to the building. By perhaps coming out of it, a canopy or something that might extend a little bit beyond the base of the building so that it's obvious that there's an entrance there when you develop that. I don't think of this aesthetic has anything that is a final version of it but this is just to indicate we need Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 5 to treat that entrance somehow. Perhaps it is a canopy that comes out. What we have in front of that here on which we have say some signage, this is a colonnade which is a carry over from some thoughts we have on what's happening on the south side of the building. Park side. And that's an element that we've suggested in there and the thought .is to bring that around and say yes, it's some common elements on the building. Again, that may or may not be how it's treated. But it gives you the idea anyway that you have this facade centered on that and you treat that, I think that would work well. Robbins: What's the reasoning for moving the entrance from one to the other? More of a flow of traffic or just what's the reasoning? Bert Haglund: I think there are two main reasons. One is an internal reason as to how the building will function for the public to come into the building. How they're routed through the building. They come in once place. If they want to go to someplace else. Do they have to go through a lot of the building to get there? The idea being that they enter more. centrally and then have an easier flow.- . That's one reason. Just an internal function. Chmiel: Better direction, less confusion is what you're saying? Bert Haglund: Yes. The second reason is, as we think of the building from the outside and as you're approaching the building, they have some sense of where that entrance is that relates well to parking. Where when you're looking at that facade of the building, is it'on the end on a corner or is it more centrally located and that's really more of a question than just an architectural treatment on the building as a whole. As you approach it from the outside. Obviously from a...standpoint this can work. It's not that it can't work but we think that this has some merit from the outside of the building as well. How you perceive that when you drive up to the building. Ashworth: If I can addi We're maintaining the concept that there will be a mirror image so the step that's in front here, I would see that that continuing into the future because that's close to the parking areas. In a similar fashion when you do what I call the mirror image, you'd have a similar doorway as it would approach the parking lot on that side. So now you end up with these two door areas. Those people who know where they want to go, it's going to be easier simply to park in one parking lot or the other and go directly to whichever area. But I hear Bert.saying that if you do the front entry and have an additional entry there, for those people who literally are coming for a first time, that's a spot to come into and know whether or not they'Te going to the left or they're going to the right. Are they going towards public safety. Probably by that time you'll end up with licensing and permits and. whatever may be on one side. You may have another section that would be planning zoning. You may have another section that's administration finance and finally a fourth section that would be engineering and whoever is left. Bert Haglund: That's really all we have to show you about this tonight[ It's really a preliminary study, planning study and not so much to get into the architecture of it. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page $ Ashworth: If I were to create a summary of basically what Bert and I have gone through. It's that we feel, and they've kind of tested then our analysis, that we can meet the space needs for this city through the year 2010 with this structure and with any type of an addition that may be put on. That all of those things can be built in fashion similar to what's being shown here. That there will be changes to those in potentially and upcoming years but we're not going to have to start all over. We're not going to have throw away what we've done. That it would appear as though, even with our future growth projections that we can reasonably account for all of the bodies that may be needed by that point in time within this structure or the addition thereto. Bohn: Also, wouldn't it be possible for eventually if we ever build a community center, put the senior citizen center in the community center? Ashworth: That's not a good idea. I think that's an excellent idea. I've always felt that that would be the best thing to do. But every group that we have met with who has been involved in this area say don't do it. Have your senior center in a separate location. It can be close. It can be whatever. But if it's in the same facility, seniors have a tendency to say, this is my building and all of a sudden if it's being used for Other uses, youth type of activities, there can get to be some real wars. They basically have advised us against doing that type of thing. Chmiel: So the space is utilized accordingly and used enough so it's not sitting vacant by separating one from the other. Sometimes that can be as such as a given problem. I think too like we were talking, senior center or a location for the. youth. Potentially it's only an if but they're talking, may like to build an armory within the city. That's in talking stages yet and I've been talking to some people. Utilization of an armory can also be used by the city during the week because weekends they do their training. So that's something that we should keep in'the back of our minds as well. Robbins: Back to the north, the way you guys have proposed with the entry and that general concept. With that type of situation, do we run into any type of, I shouldn't say conflict but any type of tight land with the school district who owns the elementary in terms of their land ownership of the school in back of us here? In terms of where the school boundaries starts and stops and this would start and stop. Because the school is readily north of that. The school is dir-ectly north of that. The way you've got it proposed right now. Bert Haglund: I think that will be shown on Barry's plan. Get a pretty good sense of scale and distance and so forth. Let me end up and with me tonight and he's going to be addressing the stage or the performance area. Kevin Connelly is going to ~o through, walk you through that. Kevin Connelly: I hope you can see these gentlemen. They're relatively small scale but hopefully they'll convey the intended... As they were mentioning a second ago, what I want to do is I want to just take a minute for my portion of this discussion and focus on this guy right here. The bandshell is a component of' this total picture...amplified on this side but you've got neighborhoods up here to the north, northwest and there's a Housing and RedeveIopment Authority February.20, 1992 - Page 7 certain amount of control that you want to try to maintain to project that sound in that direction. Whereas from the other side there.'s not the same constraints because you don't have the residential... But you could support a much larger projection of sound and light and performance. You've got a little zone here where you can have kind of a core audience of people seated and probably focusing right on what's going on~ Maybe the fringe audience here that might be listening to it but they might be moving around and then...park more passive audience that might still be...listening to the performance. $o it begins to validate...for us the location for some type of stage or some type... We did go through some other options and we did take a hypothetical look at what happens if you build it down in this corner of the site. Over here. Work it around and try to play'devil's advocate and come up with a lot of different alternatives. And this really came out to be the one that seemed reasonable so we're, like'I said, that's our starting point .... there's some other things so when the time comes to make actual architecture out of this, it will need to be handled in terms' of how the acoustics are and sound deflection...we'll get to eventually. And not the least of which is how the audience orients in relation to the performanbe and some's going to be in the audience...summer season...but the evening sun coming from... $o we begin to build some criteria for actually laying this thing out on site and the next series that I want to approve, there is some respective floor plans for this thing. I think we look at and again these are not meant to be architecture but they are' different in terms of the size and the scale of the map. Try to show some alternatives. Here we've got something that's kind of a, based on this and based on the question, what could this structure really become. Again just kind of pushing then, saying what could we accomplish here if we really tried to do something significant. And address these dynamics in a very linear, straight forward way. Well do we have stage again. Position relatively...and then focus on' some type of concert group and there's some limits as to sight lines and things. But you still need to be' able to perform on the other side as well. There needs to be perhaps another platform there. There's a need for other functions and they're beginning to think about those somewhat. Toilets could occur in any number of places in the park. One thing that could be done is they could be integrated into this building. Another place the toilets could go, if they were to be built, could be in some way blended into the kitchen expansion up here. Of course they'd be longer term according to the schedule that's... $o this is a relatively compact, two stage, double stage kind of arrangement. Shows how the alternatives will... Workman: We're okay with portolettes in this city so just go-ahead and design those in. Hide them behind trees and stuff. . . Kevin Connelly: What I'm showing here is some studies that We went' through also. Not only for the purpose of just exploring some architectural plans but also trying to determine as we come closer to where we think we want to go...how we can go back to landscape plan... $o this would be a way of orienting a larger stage at right angles to the access of the front of City Hall and other alternatives. What I'm drawing around here for lines on these things are suggesting we begin to define a certain kind of space in front of the City Hall and oriented to that larger stage and... Fundamentally what this is doing is this is trying to get in regards to something like this where this coming very close to the existing building., Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 8 We tr'ied to find a way to keep the platform that was oriented towards the amphitheatre and yet keep this larger piece away from the building... stretch it out a little bit. And again we're trying for planning purposes to beg the question...about what other things...storage space and some toilets again. Final two schemes are kind of what if scenarios. What if we really define a large space and we have to make this thing much larger and much more linear. Build something that has more of a facade that would be more related to the facade of City Hall. In fact it creates a kind of architectural place in here. The thing with these scheme is that, and not only does this structure become quite large but it starts to break up the park and have this space behind it and you've got this space on the side of it. It doesn't seem like... Completely different alternative to that is to not attempt to build two completely separate stages. It's a real question...and again going back to, what are you really trying to do with this thing? An alternative would be to still allow the type of quality space that you could develop in this amphitheatre area with a small enclosed stage area and then allow for a larger, less frequent in performances...few times a year with just an open plaza. Just an open raised area that would be part of the plaza, landscaping of the park. But without we found... This is our latest version but the key here is to try to suggest all the things that it could be, and really ask the question. What are the intentions here? Barry's going to be able to go through, based on some of these same floor plan scenarios, some different modeling of things to show you how... Chmiel: Just my own, and I think we're looking for something simplified enough with the stage to have direction so people can view it from the entirety of that park. Putting up a wall I think would be sort of a mistake, depending upon how many people really come out. I don't see the need for any outside toilet facilities.when City Hall is right adjacent to that and those are accessible. I think we're looking for more of a simplistic aspect than going into great detail, at least that was my thought. But I don't see the need for those other things along with that. Bohn: I agree. I thought of more of a theatre in the round type of thing where it showed it in a direction or if you wanted a backdrop, you could always hang curtains or drapes or canvas to shield it from one side to the other. I really thought of more of a round platform, maybe with a roof to keep the rain off. Kevin Connelly: That is the question that's on the table...start with something that's flat and then stand on it and put... There's several examples of facilities like this around the Twin Cities and they really range you know from things that are very simple to things that are, in a couple cases are very sophisticated. Chmiel: Could we get some addresses or locations of those facilities and maybe go on a look see as well? Kevin Connelly:' Sure. I've done that myself already. A tour and see what's out there. Robbins: This is probably saying just what Don is saying and what Jim is saying, ...saying the same thing perhaps too is it's possible we might want Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 9 to make this the way it's structured. In terms of the concept I think it's okay. In terms of where it's not brought back to...in terms of whether we might want to say we want to make it very simple and then as we raise it in the summer should we say and bring it up on jacks or a raised stage, and it's modular and then in the fall you fold it down and Put panels away and make a modular structure and doing that. I've seen that at some other areas too. And doing it so you can actually reconfigure the stage however that you want to reconfigure it. ~ast, west, north and south by just panels. And just have that available too. Just make it Portable because · · weather is going to drive this a little bit too. Kevin Connelly: Yeah. I mean if... Robbins: The concept, you know the way the amphi type of Situation, I think is, our concept is there I think. Kevin Connelly: Just one reflection I have about the plan'scale in relation to the size of the park and everything and again, not to go into some things that 8arry's going to cover but it's not, the whole park is not really.., some city parks are. Some really are recreational areas...can . support something like that. It really does function at times when you're going to take...and turn it 180 degrees... Because of how much. is being developed here and because of how relatively structured the plan, this whole thing is, I don't know if you're going to have a lot of opportunity to do something that's just--going to... Robbins: But it might be just to start it'out though in te~ms of, 'get it going and see what's going to work. Chmiel: What size stage would accommodate an orchestra for instance? Kevin Connelly: A full orchestra?' About maybe 2,000-2,500 square feet... and this is representing about that size... This is a little bit smaller. Another thing to remember about this too, again this is not architecture and I'm not here selling architecture at all. Again, because of the size of the scale and the park and because of how this suggestion keeps suggesting south...what you build there and how'it goes together is important... Chmiel: Yeah. I think the idea and the concept-of the amphitheatre being where it's at. Plus I also like the fact that if that does fill, you get a lot of people, I still would like to have the accommodation of those people to the south portion of it or to the southeast portion being able to still sit down on the grass or bring their blankets and still have view of what's taking place. From down below from where the stage would be. Workman: That was my feeling. That whatever group is playing should not be playing into the hill, and I know that maybe for intimacy would be best. Well I got this idea from my kids, I want to tell you. My kids think, no. That because I don't know how versatile we want to try and get here. I imagine people driving by on West 78th and seeing this and if you see some band and their back is to them and their equipment's backs are to them, that's kind of what people are going to see and .they're going to see all these people sitting up on the hill but the back of these people playing Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 10 their fiddle or whatever. It seemed to me that we could build something maybe naturally acoustic into that hill for where the performances would occur and then out into the rest of the park and then not worry about going two ways or into the hill. I guess it all depends on what kind.of orchestra or puppet show or whatever you think. You know big group, small group but. Robbins: But we can draw the analogy that, in having visited ~he Lake Harriet band concerts, which is not a two sided event. That's about at a 70 degree angle approach. Maybe we're trying to accomplish too much by doing a 360. This appears to me to be a 360 device here. All the way around, correct? That's the way it's drawn here. Maybe we don't do that. Kevin Connelly: This has a... Robbing: But again we're going to face all the way around it. We're going up the amphitheatre seating and down below and all the way around it. If you just take the approach of Lake Harriet, I'm not saying that"s right but in terms of that concept, they've got a bandshell constructed. It's out there. You sit. You know where you're at and this is the way it is you know. And that's not all bad. It works very well and we go to quite a few of those during the summer and it appears to all of us it seems pretty well. I think that's the intent of this. People go out and have a good time and if it's acting or if it's stage or music or band or Combination, I think that's the intent of this thing. At least that's my.opinion. Ashworth: Again as I stated when we started. I think what Kevin has done is shown you a wide range of alternatives. Decisions as to which one or should we kind of go a different direction should really be answered after you kind of look at the programming aspect. How this facility is going to be used. With that, unless you have additional questions of Kevin, I would suggest that we allow Barry to review what he has done from that programming aspect and some of his thoughts. Barry Warner: We have in front of. you the graphic that's really been in a state of evolution ever since we started. YOU might remember we started with some broad magic markers and went through a...of concept alternatives. And even though this seems rather crisp in the way it's been drawn, it is intended to stay in a state of evolution and stay dynamic until it goes in the ground. In essence, it's almost a dart board'from which we can advance notions and issues and challenges to and then we'll continue.to evole it. And we feel that the exercise that we've gone through with EOS, and staff has been very productive. I know that you've had, as well as we've had a lot of ongoing dialogue and questions that we certainly didn't want to answer, not being architects in terms of well, what .is the focus going to look like? This building and so on and so that's been very productive and I think it also helps us have more common expectations in terms of what this performing facility is going to be. We have thrown out everything from a plain catalog gazebo to something that's more fancy so those are the range of alternatives and I think that's where we need to continu~ to be. One of the exercises however that seems very important for us to continue to look at is for the entire open space area, what are we going to use it for and maybe that's the best thing we can do right now is take a step back. With Todd Hoffman's input, certainly because he's going to be. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 11 programming a portion of this facility and keeping a portion of it active. At the starting point we've put together a calendar that really shows a lot of what programs he would anticipate for this open space area, including the shelter during a typical calendar year. And you'll see that it really ranges significantly in size. In April for example, an annual Easter Egg Hunt with 200 to 300 participants and May and Arbor Day Celebration with 50 to 200. June would include Concert in the Park, Summer Discovery, Wednesday Wing Dings and library programs. The 4th of July Community Picnic is one of the largest events obviously and we"re starting to look at 2,500 people. So when you contrast between 50 and 2,500, you can see that this facility really needs to be responsive in scale. Appealing good to all those events as well as some of the larger ones. Concert in the Park response to the performing area. Summer Discovery. Wednesday Wing Dings again. Library programs and August Concert in the Park. Summer Discovery. Library programs and an Art Fair which could potentially draw up to 3,000 people. Winding down in the fail'with a Concert in the Park and Oktoberfest in September. Again the Oktoberfest being a large event and finally Holiday Lights in December. So that gives you a framework for programming if you will that is likely to be attracted towards the open space and some of the amenities that would be within this area. I also , feel that once the momentum gets going, something like this is going to attract more. Maybe do something as simple as Safety Bike Day or something in front of there because it's a civic event, do any number of different alternatives. So.that kind of gives us some idea of the programming and Todd, I don't know if you have any additional comments or contributions which we should be made aware of. Hoffman: Certainly some of the flagship events which have evolved to date. The 4th of July, Oktoberfest are going to fit right into this area but as Barry mentioned, other things are going to evolve. Civic groups of different natures are going to say look at this central location. We can plan an event. Bring people into downtown and showcase our organization in the city so other events will certainly will come about. This is .just a shopping list to start with. Barry Warner: Again I think it's important to understand the implications of that for just a brief moment. What we're trying to provide here is a space that is as flexible as possible so that we don't preclude any programming. Rather we attract programming.and as the traffic for a small event as it is feeling comfortable with 3,000 people there for an art fair. So that's really a challenge to all of us to try and anticipate that scale. One of the implications that it has however is parking. Now when you begin to attract some of the people, amounts that we are anticipating for an art fair, for Oktoberfest, for your 4th of July Celebration. One thing is where are we going to put all these cars? We've put together a graphic here that begins to inventory some of the spaces. Spaces that would be available on site adjacent as a part of the complex as well as reservoirs that are adjacent at the elementary school and fire station. The post office, the new bank, the hotel. The development to the south and one that we can't anticipate, because we don't know'what kind of land use' it's going to be, is that that's west of Kerber. The bottom line says this. The existing City Hall has about 70 spaces. The future City Hall would have about 110 spaces and based upon your zoning code for example, which you'd have to adhere to, you'd have a net of about 30'additional spaces. So Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, i992 - Page i2 we're covered reasonably well there. If we take a look however at a peak central park event that has about 2,500 participants and our traffic engineers tell us that for many of those civic kind of events you're going to average about 2.6 people per vehicle. That would say that we basically need about 830 spaces. Or excuse me, 960 spaces. 830 of which would be provided within a block radius of the facility.- And again keep in mind, because we don't know what the land use is going to be there', it may be another reservoir here and certainly as we go further towards the downtown east of here, there are going to be people walking towards an Oktoberfest or 4th of July or even from some of the residential reservoirs where they don't, they're going to be walking instead of driving and we haven't put in any street parking whatsoever. The remainder of my presentation I'm going to quickly respond to some of the alternatives that EOS has advanced and I think that's been a really good exercise as I've pointed out. One-of their alternatives has a line, the performing facility in this area with one of the banks looking back towards the concert grove and another towards a plaza over in this area and again that's largely defined by the colonnades that have been anticipated. Again basically an architectural wall that would have openings in it but it helps to set define what that plaza space might be. You can see by these spaces, the tones that we've used, that that initial concept that we've evolved to stays roughly intact. Though the plaza in front although we've shown it here to be a'gray tone would have landscaping in it so it shouldn't read as that. The mall stays intact. The elipse garden. The promenade. That open lot area and that concert grove. I'll quickly go through the other schemes so you can see how we've responded to them. Again in the second scheme, the concert grove was reduced somewhat like the plaza.is increased. Those other functional areas stay largely intact. This space becomes a lot larger. In this case the mall becomes foreshorn. Perhaps not as prominent as it was or possibly is in the other schemes. And the plaza becomes much larger and that might pose some scale problems. I think at that point the building almost begins to be offset by that large plaza in front. In schemes C, again here's an opportunity for the mall to extend all the way to the building.. That plaza might be br'oken into a couple smaller areas. One of which is used as a seating area for the larger of the two performing areas. The concert grove, the elipse garden, promenade-and so on. Scheme 3 is much-like that. However, the south plaza state is increased in size. The elipse garden begins to have a funnier arm to it. The mall is foreshorn and quite small. The promenade stays reasonably intact as does the concert grove. 1%hiCk it's important to know however that as this architectural performance extends south, that it becomes much more elegant. It almost becomes dominant and I think that would be a real challenge architecturally to say is that something that we can live with? Does it begin to dominant the building. Does this plaza begin to dominant the building and are we beginning to lose some of that presence that we want City Hall to appear as. And Scheme E again takes a look at a small performing area here. I think the plaza would be a little bit irregular in shape but again could be broken into smaller pieces. The elipse garden again has kind of a dogleg because of responding to the performance area. That concert grove stays reasonably intact and the promenade stays reasonably intact, although that would be quite regular. Consistent with the rest of the concepts. The mall in this case we feel could mar...the building across the plaza and again stay reasonably consistent with the original intent which was to provide a strong view up to the City Hall to provide a real special place Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 13 for it. $o again this is in our response to some of the alternatives that have been advanced. Chmiel: When you say south plaza, how much hard surface are you Saying 'for that area so is it all going to be landscaped with greenery within? Barry Warner: This area is about 28,000 square feet and we have shown it as being a gray tone because of the path...would be in some kind of paved surface. Although we might have canopy trees, large shurb massin~s and seating areas and so on that would consume the'other half of it. Chmiel: Yeah but if we want the Concept to be a park, why Would we put hard surface in? Barry Warner: Well I think that's a very fair question. One of the things that we're trying to do here, and here you can see that... It's more moderate in size here allowing us to have some more flexibility in smaller events and day to day lunchtime activities for example and so on. My fear is I think is that this becomes to be overwhelming and even though we would have landscaping on both situations, it becomes almost too expansive. It would be there on an off peak, it's a lunch hour by ourselves or something. We'd be overwhelmed by that hard surface area. And as I said at the outset, one of our design challenges as all decision makers is to try to make this space as flexible as possible. It looks good when it's not being used yet it's very accepting of 25 to 100 to 300 people. Being able to fill in these open areas with either tents or special events. An art fair. A performance that you bring in a chamber symphony or a small orchestra or something that allows you to draw maybe 1,000 people if it's a real big event or something of that nature. Maybe you for a special event work at the Dinner Theatre and bring in some of their cast over for a summer playhouse one or two evenings. Something of that nature. We're wanting again to provide flexibility but then something that challenges us so we can program this thing and use it to it's utmost. And I think that the basic concept has been here to provide'a civic open space instead of something that's just viewed on. That's static. That never, gets used. I think we'd be really defeating what could be a tremendous potential if we restrict ourselves to just...space. We'd want it to be an activity area that really speaks well of the community and Shows of their, participation. Robbing: Just a general question. The way it's drawn in terms of a lot of your programs, it tends to draw attention to the south side in terms of the corridors and the malls whatever. But yet another drawing was also stipulated that the main entrance would be the north side. How do we kind of direct traffic around, saying okay we've got it going up. the south side and yet it remains on the north side. Is there kind of a lack of words? way to get people around to see that in fact the entrance on the north side not the south side? Because the way it's drawn right now, the main oedipus if you will, would be at the south side and that's not the intent, or is it? Barry Warner: No. And that's a very good question. I think that there is a strong commitment to having pedestrian access to. the btiilding and your parking reservoirs either on one side or the other Or on'the north side of the building or all three. And there is not a commitment to parking on the Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 14 south. That essentially is being used here for open space purposes. That means in my mind there needs to be some attractive monumentation. Signing that would be at the intersections that would reinforce that this is an entrance to the'City Hail for vehicIes. But architecturally I think the challenge to this facade is to say this is a civic building and civic campus...into a space and actuall, y it gives you a sense of entrance as you go in. I think that same feeling should occur on Market and Kerber. Maybe a special landscaping, bouIevard trees and so on that bring you into the site. Bring you into the perking area and with the correct architectural statement, across the small plaza and into this entrance on the west side of the building. Bohn: On that plaza, you said you would have shurbs in there. People will be sitting down there, maybe on a blanket or not, watching a concert. Would that obstruct their view? Barry Warner: No. Let's go back to this. Bohn: Say we 3,000 people there. What would you do? Barry Warner: You may have views obstructed by canopy frames but generally you can see through...some of the heads when-they're...may preclude some views. If you're sitting back in here but if you've never been at something like Ravina or some other of these. Bohn: I've been to a couple that were disasters. I mean complete disasters for me because I was behind a tree and I'd move over and there was another tree in the way. Too many trees and t'he thing about people sitting up here watching a concert, they don't want to be looking through shurbs. Trees may be big enough. Barry Warner: Right. If we can go back to the classic question and the shurbs. The shurb marrings are compliment the building and to establish an edge for some of the plaza but they're not to preclude pedestrian circulation and they're not to preclude views from this performing area. Bohn: If we have 3,000 people there or say 2,000 people, where would they be sitting? Barry Warner: They're basically going to cover most of that area. That's a peak event and that's what I've tried to reaffirm that it's a challenge to make one or two people feel comfortable in this.space and yet make .it amendable to 3,000 people. You're going to compromise 3,000 people if they're here for one performance in terms of them being able to see the performance. They're going to participate in the music. The best seats in the house are the ones that are going to go first and they're the ones that are going to have the strongest view but there is just no way that 3,000 can be accommodated and you're going to pick the corners up and have strong views of here. But you're still going to have good music. I'll kind of show the other side of the coin. If I go to some of these places, I like to bring a blanket and maybe have some food and participate in that as well and the music and I may be less interested in watching the performers all the time. So I'm not sure that you really have to provide an intimate view to the performer from all the seats in the house. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 15 .. Bohn: There would be occasions that you would though? Barry Warner: Yes. And I think the other thing here is that as Todd Hoffman's programming points out, whereas a children's program you may have a comedian, a clown or one person that comes in and you want to provide them a very intimate seating for them so if they really participate-one to one with this performer. But if you have a Chamber orchestra or a portion of the Minneapolis or Minnesota Symphony that shows up, music is the intent there, especially if you're drawing a big crowd into the event. Ashworth: No action is required and some of the points that Barry had brought out, for example potentially working with the Dinner Theatre, I have shared some of these with the-people from the Dinner Theatre. Jim Jules specifically. Herb Bloomberg. It's too early for them to make any type of comments and I think that we've got to realize that the earliest, the very earliest that you would be thinking about authorizing this project and starting any specifications, etc. is 1995. 3 years from now, maybe 4. I think to get some alternatives on the table. To feel comfortable that we've explored issues is a good idea but I don't see any necessity in saying we're going to do one versus the other until Market Square becomes a reality. We've got the businesses there. They're starting to push us to. take and have more downtown events, etc.. REVIEW 1992 HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY GOALS. Gerhardt: Attached are the staff's list of 1992 HRA'goals for your review. I put some tentative time schedules along with those. I would hope that you had an opportunity this past week to go through there to see if there are any additions or times or dates that you'd want to change associated with any of these or if I had missed any. I tried to sit down one evening and think of everything that we've been working on and been planning for. I put some time tables that I felt that I could reach as a part of each of those. In the past we've tried to do an August review of these to see how we have been accomplishing them on the year and Don and I sit down every once in a while and go through it to see where we're at also. As I kept making the list out, it kept getting bigger and bigger and I'm going how are we going to try and accomplish all of these but we seem to touch on each one every, at some point during the year. Bohn: I noticed demolish the Chanhassen Meadows Apartments. Is that in the HRA district? I didn't think so. Gerhardt: Boy, I can't remember. I get fuzzy where that boundary is. Robbins: But that's because of the realignment of TH 101. Gerhardt: I'll check on that. Chmiel: I don't think it is because we just get to the Taco Shop and the cement. That was just strictly for the relocation of TH 101. Relocate that facility for that entrance in and out, if I.remember correctly. Gerhardt: I think you're right. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 16 Chmiel: I have just one question. I guess I don't really know what the answers are. Maybe you can give them to me. I think we talked about the existing square footage of what the library is now and that-was at about 2,900 square feet was mentioned before. As we grow and our population becomes increased, what is the ratio that they use at the library for space for square footage in relationshi~ to population? Gerhardt: They like to, there's a couple different criteria. They feel that they should have, what was it. 1,O00 square feet For ~very i,O00 people. We sort of like to use 500 square feet for every 1,O00. Chmiel: I think that sounds more reasonable. Okay. The other question. I have is, if.we put in a library within the city and it's also tied in with the County, does the County make any contributions toward any of that? Gerhardt: The County provides all the books. They provide all the shelving and they also provide all the manpower, womanpower to run and operate the facility. All we do is provide the shell and. Chmiel: They'd fill it. Gerhardt: They'd fill it, right. So we provide carpeting, fixtures, that type of stuff and then they operate it. Chmiel: Do we know what total numbers use the library now? Gerhardt: I can get you those numbers. I don't know off hand but it's increased every year I know. But right now'the Couhty, what Mary told me the other day. Bert, do you remember any figures that Mary may have used on how many people are using the library? I don't think she brought that out in our meeting. Bert Haglund: No, she did not. Chmiel: Maybe you can get that. Gerhardt: I know they've increased and I know the county has cut into 'their budget. She'd like to add more people, add more time to her staff and they're going to get hit with some of these State cuts too. Chmiel: I think just one other quick comment. The two different months there we're having Wing Ding Days and I think that they should probably have Workman Ding and Dimler Ding and Wing just can't have the 'fun. Workman: I thought you were making a snide remark to me. Chmiel: No. Workman: Chmiel ding. Are we just making general comments on-the goals? Gerhardt: Yeah. I put a list together you know of what I felt that some of the projects that we've been talking about and that are underway and how we're going to accomplish them. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 17 Workman: And when you look at this in a format like this, it all looks very ambitious and we're doing an awful lot and I think we're doing an awful lot of good. The only comment I have, I hope I haven't interrupted somebody here. Chmiel: That's alright. Workman: The only comment I have is one in a general sense that I'm getting from some members of the community. Members who are people who are in the know but they're kind of wondering and people are starting to kind of wonder about our accumulation of buildings and lots and property and I started to get that feeling when we went for the Hanus building.. We're kind of going at this and it's really hard for me to convey to some of those people why and what and how and maybe I need to direct them to you. But people are starting to get concerned and I don't know if ira's the economy or what it is and I explained that gee, these districts have been created since before 1980 you know and we're doing what a tax increment district is created for. To do the things that we couldn't otherwise normally do. I think the purchase of the outlot from Bloomberg and some of those things, they're'starting to accumulate and people are asking-me questions. That's not any of your problems but I'm starting to become sensitive to the way a city or the HRA appears to be maybe doing things and maybe we need to get back to re-educating people on what and why and 'how and how it's costing and that sort of thing so quite frankly I can feel better about doing all of this. Because if I get back to my original comment, my comment is I think this is stuff that we, that I'm excited about doing so Todd I'm not saying to you', we should be doing any of this. But people are looking at a lot of these things, what do you mean we're buying a Red-E-Mix? What, what, what. I mean you know how that goes. But it seems to be picking up a little more. steam and I want to make sure, and I guess I can begin telling them but they start to get questions about everything as a whole and the city's-becoming a land holding company and a wheeler and a dealer and everything else. That's the way it appears and while I know and I voted for all of it, I know why we're trying to accomplish it. It just for some people are starting to. Bohn: We're recycling the land. Workman: Right. Chmiel: Yeah, but I think really the whole intent behind it, and that is some of those properties is so that we ge~ what we want within this community rather than having someone come in and tell us they're going to go on that particular piece of property in something we don't want. Workman: Right and then blame us for it being there. I'n these economic times, people are concerned about taxes and they're concerned about their jobs and those kind of things and when those things start to really get on their craw, then they look for what they may, and I'm sure misperceived what is maybe waste and why are we doing this and how. I'm not saying that we're doing the wrong things because 10 years from now we will know that we did the right thing. It just at this stage people are tense and I feel that and I thought I would convey that. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 18 Chmiel: That's good and I've had a few people indicate that too and I sort of combatted it by just exactly what I said.' And in'taking into consideration 5 or 10 years from now, it's going to have something there that will be a tax paying the increment back into the city which will also help lower their taxes in the long run. But I think they've got to take into consideration that we're looking at'it purely from an aesthetic aspect as to what will go into that particular location. We're more choosey and.I think we're taking the right approach in doing that by acquiescing these properties. And not have somebody come back 5 year or even 3:years from now and say why did you let that thing come in here. Workman: Right and you can't keep everybody happy. Chmiel: That's true. The economy's bad. Well I shouldn't say it's bad. It's picking up. It's getting better but there are a lot of concerns with that aspect. Workman: People using less electricity? Chmiel: No. I wish they were. Robbins: Todd, do we need a motion on this to accept the goals? Gerhardt: No. Bohn: I have one question about this. Is there anything on here about the street going behind the Dinner Theatre? Is there a name for that street? Ashworth: Yes. Pauly Way. Pauly Boulevard. Pauly Place. Pauly something. Chmiel: Terrace or Lane. Bohn: The street that goes behind the Dinner Theatre. Ashworth: I know that, well the family, the Pauly family had asked for a street to be considered and that, the plat was going through about that same timeframe and I remember it had been presented and the Council had approved Pauly something. Pauly Place~ Pauly 8oulevard. Pauly Terrace. Chmiel: Pauly's Bar. Bohn: Also in the redevelopment for the area where Pauly/PonY/Pryzmus is, and that land that we now own, say a library's built there. Is there any consideration to what's going to happen with the Cravens£Klingelhutz building? Ashworth: I personally think that we're going to have to face that issue at some point in time. I don't know how we're going to respond to the issue. I think part of the response is going to depend on what the existing owners would like to do. At one point in time I had met with one of the two partners who appeared to be very anxious and wanted to do something and we went through different proposals using the HRA policy in terms of how we could help them. They seemed to be quite anxious in doing Housing and Redeveiopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 19 that and then the next thing I heard was that the other partner was not interested in doing anything. And accordingly that one was just dropping it. Now that is the oldest commercial structure within the city of Chanhassen and we identified various uses, or at least alleged uses for that building. One was a mercantile. One was supposedly a lumber yard. I'm trying to think of some of the other ones; Right now the current plan doesn't show anything there and we've got so many areas where the owners want to work with us and do something that we haven't take'n the initiative just to go out and takm sommbody in advance o~ when they want to do something. Bohn: That building can still operate even though the library's there. We own the parking lot anyway. Ashworth: Yes. Right. Bohn: They have an easement through that lot? Ashworth: Well they have a driveway that's actually on their property and in addition, as a part of the public improvement project, they were Charged for x number of those spaces. I think it was. lO or 11 and when the actual hearing came through, A1 came forward saying that was too aggressive and my recollection is that the Council had approved an.assessment for like 4 or 5 of those spaces. That's my recollection. Bohn: There's no action on that. Okay, .we'll move onto the next item. Ashworth: If I could, we've typically had onto our agenda an update of Market Square. Bernell is here this evening. I had mentioned to both Brad and Bernell, they may want to stop over just because this continues to be of concern. Commissioner Workman had contacted me earlier today with some concerns as they've been relayed to him by Bernie Hanson. Could we just take a couple of minutes before we start this next item to give you an update on where that stands? Is that acceptable? Bohn: Yes. UPDATE ON MARKET SQUARE. Ashworth: I think I can keep this very short. We've had 3 or 4, and I call them very minor type of issues but they're the type that you have to document. One of the partners is a Wisconsin. resident and under Wisconsin law there's some differences as it deals with property and they needed to square that away. He's in agreement.. The attorneys for the two banks have provided the release and he's going to sign that. They asked for a change in the, not in the development contract but just in regards, to insuring that the mortgage would stand ahead of the development contract and so we made changes there. No monetary impact but just reassurances for them. It seemed like there was one other real miscellaneous one. Then the real issue appeared to be Bernie Hanso~ and again I've had conversations I think with various commissioners. Between 6:00 and 7:00 this evening I had Brad contacted me saying that he had been meeting with Bernie for most of the day and that he was confident that they had worked through all of the issues that were of concern to Bernie. Bernie then Contacted.me to restate Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 20 the same thing. And I think Brad had wanted him to contact me so that-I could hear from his own lips that he in fact thinks there's an agreement. Again, I don't know do you wish to add anything more to that? Bernell: No, I think you probably hit it pretty well. I know that-...or it will close that day but I think you said it pretty well. We've had 3 issues that have been, well first of all we're driven by when the lender, the first bank attorney's says we can close... Some things are.important to one and some thinss are more important to another. We have a commitment from the first bank's attorney that he can close in 24 hours of the time that we say roughly the issue on the Wisconsin marital property question is resolved and we receive assurances that the past covering that, transmitting that agreement would be at our attorneY's office tonight. It has been an incredible amount of delays to get that issue resolved but the other issue has been the question of making sure that all. the easements are right and that... The other issue has been Bernie. That issue has been only in existence since last Wednesday and it may seem hard for any of you to appreciate why this came up now since he's had the lease in place for, well in concept for years I guess and in final form since October. Actually...Lutheran Brotherhood in December but the issue of...Bernie has an option to purchase and the...coordination documents that are required of ' all tenants... His attorney has made a change in order to protect his interest...and we have had to build a sort of a bridge in the'form of amendments to the document all around what might happen to Bernie in the event of a foreclosure. We have had a couple of different'versions and we were all delighted to tell Todd and Don last Friday that we thought we had them all solved and then on Monday morning the attorney for Lutheran Brotherhood in this case... We made yet another concession about 5:30 or 6:00 tonight and Bernie is out of town now but his...lenders attorney agrees in concept, then we'll draft the documents and Bernie's assured us that it's alright. So that will eliminate anothgr... Chmiel: We had 6 final items I think is what I was told. Bernell: I don't want to say there are 6 or 3 or 2 or 1. I want to tell you that we have, I counted the number of documents that we'have about the middle of December and I counted 170 different documents. Since then I'm sure that we have manufactured enough...lO0. There are littl~ things from time to and time in every one that while it-might not be an issue, it's something that has to be addressed...and their person' might not be in their office that afternoon and then we have to get back and have somebody else... 3ohn Dean or whoever redo it and one of the things that we have appreciated through all this is the quick response and cooperation we've gotten from the city staff and their legal counsel for the HRA. They've been almost a delight to work wit.h but nobody...secretaries take a few minutes to type it and the lawyers take a few minutes to read it. It's just amazing so we have a few little miscellaneous things and...but we would like, I don't know if we can have a document closing tomorrow afternoon or not. We were hoping if we got Bernie's things out yet today that we might be able to have it... We're going to press for it and our attorney...so that's where we are but I think we will... Appreciate your patience in... Workman: I'm liable to start taking this personal, all these delays. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 21 CONSIDER APPROVAL OF PURCHASE AGREEMENT WITH AMERICANA COMITY BANK. Ashworth: At the last meeting the presentation was made by Americana Bank to build on our property on 79th Street. That was in the form of a purchase agreement where they would purchase the westerly portion of that property for the construction of the bank. I think it's fair to say that everyone was supportive of that. I think coming into the meeting there may have been some concern as to how this proposed new construction on 79th street, what effect would that have on'Market Square? Would it .in some way affect things that we'd been doing to date. I think that Randy wanted to make it very clear that they needed to be decisive. They needed action and they needed to demonstrate that they had the wherewithal and were going to build this facility. I think in the process of them making sure that they were making a presentation and proposal that would literally be guaranteed, they knew they could construct $,000 square feet or 7,800, whatever that proposal was. They showed the plan that would show an approximately additional 4,000 square feet that as time would go by they would hope'to be able to put on and to add to that facility. Again I'm happy that we made the decision to accept their proposal to have them build on that site. However I heard two things being said. Well I heard one thing being said and that Nas, this is a key intersection for the city. We want to see a major structure on that corner. We are concerned that maybe 7,500-7,800 square feet as an initial construction may not be what we fully desir.e. Is there a way in which that could, then that additional 4,000 square feet could be put on? Since that point in time staff has pursued that issue... and are willing to proceed with a commitment to build the full approximate 12,000 square foot structure and we would recommend approval of that agreement. Randy is here this evening and would like.to show you a concept plan of what he thinks that that new structure would look' like and I don't know if you want to open it for questions to myself or wish to see Randy proceed with the presentation. I'll leave that up to you Vice Chair. o Bohn: Randy. Randy Schultz: Thanks. This is the' quick drawing that we were able to have done showing the new building now with phase 2 added on. I think the easiest way I can show you the effect is I'll show you the picture with what we had before. What you've seen before is this area here...south side towards 79th Street. Now this would be the full facility'with the phase 2 being built right up front. I think as Don indicated, our thought all along were that we would be doing phase 2. We are very concerned'about being a landlord of an empty building. Our concern all along was what is our kind carrying cost to put up Phase 2 until that's a part of the building we're actually ready for. Our plans of course would probably be to occupy the lower level of Phase 2 at some point in.the years ahead and we hope that will be very soon. Initially we do not need that space. That would be rental. And we would had planned all along to make the upstairs of the building rental and in this case the upstairs of Phase 2 would be rental also. So we hope that we would occupy.the whole first floor in the very near future. As soon as it's prudent for us to do so and obviously would hope in the long run we occupy the whole building. But in the meantime we think it would provide some excellent rental space for people in need of good office space in the communitY.. We plan to provide a very nice building. I think as you can see it's the same building we've Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 22 presented to you before. We understand that it's the building in'the main entrance coming into the community so be assured that there will be an excellent landscaping design and shurbery design with the building. We recognize our responsibility to make sure that that is the image. We think it will tie in very well with your little park concept coming into the city. Workman: What is the, Don what is the one year'of tax-increment to be applied to rental losses. What does that amount to? Ashworth: The aggregate amount or how it would actually apply? The aggregate amount is $50,000.00. A little bit more. I believe the specific number is leases that in.$22,000.00 for the first. Randy Schultz: 21. Ashworth: $21,000.00 for the first two years. $il,O00.O0. Randy Schultz: $8,000.00 for the third. Ashworth: $8,000.00, okay. Workman: What number are you talking about here? What's $21,000.007 Ashworth: That would be the aggregate amount that they could be reimbursed should the leases from the additional 4,000 square feet be less than $5.00 per square foot. So if they're able to lease out 2,000 square feet at $8.00 a square foot and the remaining 2,000 square foot sits empty, reimbursement in that case would be $10,000.00. In 1994, if it also sat vacant in 1995, would be a similar amount. If itlsat vacant. Workman: $o how much could it cost us total? $150,000.007 Gerhardt: $50,000.00 for three years, times 3 is $150,000~00. That's the program. .. Workman: But are you saying that they could rent. Is that what you're basing that on? The 4,000 extra square feet times $5.00 a square foot? ~shworth: We're saying that, right. But realizing that $5.00 a square foot represents a minimum carrying cost for them. I mean typical rents will be $8.00, $10.00, $12.00 a square foot. But if we're really talking about their loss associated with holding the property, the necessity to have the full $8.00, $10.00 or $12.00 isn't there. That's my perspective. Workman: Okay, but where are you getting 50 a year? Rshworth: $50,000.00 is the aggregate over 3 years. 21, 21 and 8. Gerhardt: The original deal is that they get $100,000.00 up front. They give us a check. We give them $100,000.00 up front as land 'write down and then over, that's two years worth of increment. The incentive for them to put the expansion on and then the remaining $50,000.00 or the third, year's Housing and Redeveiopment Authority February 20, &992 - Page 23 worth of increment would be given out, if and only if that space isn't rented. Ashworth: I apologize. Roger assured me last week, a week ago last Monday that he would have the revised purchase agreement to you which would spell out each of these terms. The amount of initial assistance and then the amount that they may get if rents. Todd tells me that that was not delivered to you. I don't know what the delay in Roger's office is but it now will be potentially tomorrow before it's delivered. Workman: $o are we .supposed to approve this tonight? Ashworth: Well. Workman: If they want to go April let, we're not going to meet until March. Ashworth: Could we do this? Could you approve it in concept in terms of it's format under the condition that the purchase agreement, revised purchase agreement would be sent to you and if anything in there was different than what Todd or I have said this evening, that we would then hold an emergency meeting of the HRA to resolve any issue'that'somebody found? Workman: What I think is missing maybe is really where's the incentive for - Americana to rent or lease it out? Ashworth: At $5.00 a square foot, they're much better off. Workman: Renting it out for $14.007.. · Ashworth: Right. Why would you wa~t to just let 'it sit empty so you can get $5.00 if you have the opportunity to lease it out at $8.00, $10.00 o, $12.007 Workman: Because I don't want my building to wear and tear. I don't know. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. Randy Schultz: I can answer that. We sincerely hope that...we would hope to rent the entire upstairs of Phase 1 and the entire downstairs and upstairs of Phase 2. Robbins: Don, this has gone through what, Council and gone through our attorneys and it's been ail approved and looked at and reviewed and approved in concept? Ashworth: You're talking about the site plan? Robbins: Yeah. Ashworth: It was to the Planning Commission last night. They approved it, correct? Gerhardt: Yes. Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 24 Robbins: I guess ! would make a motion that we accept it on the purchase agreement that's stated with your comments about the reviewing it for the, you were talking about the revisions by Council.of the agreement. Workman: $100,000.00, which is two years increment which is what they get plus 21 plus 21 plus $, if it's' not leased. So that's a 3 year. So the first year they'd get 21. Second year they get 21. Third year they'd get 8. Ashworth: First year of what is the leaseable timeframe, which again gets you into that 1993-94 timeframe. '93-'94-'95. ', Bohn: Do I hear a second? Workman: Go ahead Don. Chmiel: I'll second it. Robbins moved, Chmiel seconded to approve the Purchase Agreement with Americana Community Sank with the condition that if any HRA members have any questions upon receipt from 'the City Attorney, that a special meeting will be held to resolve any questions. All voted in favor and the motion carried. APPROVE OF HODIFICATION NOv [~ TO THE RE~)EVEkOP~fl~NT PLAN MD TRX [NCREM[NT FINANCING PLAN, Gerhardt: In front of you is the plan modifications to the redevelopment plan. Included in here are our projects that are outlined in your goals are outlined what's in the plan. Talking about future construction of a central park. Future construction of a senior housing complex. Construction of a public library. Expansion to the Heritage SQuare park which is adjacent to Pauly's in front of St. Hubert's next.to old City Hail. Acquisition of the Hanus building. HRA funding of the construction of the senior center. Construction or adding West 78th Street as a project under your speciaI assessment reduction program. That that project would qualify for special assessment reduction program. Your TH 5 entry monuments at Great PlainslBlvd. and Market Bird. and future reIocation of the railroad depot and restoration of that depot. Workman: So moved. Gerhardt: There were some, just to add to that. There were some questions at our last meeting. Are these .some of the projects? Do you want to build a library down on Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus site? Is a senior housing one of the things that the HRA wants to take on? I think we did discuss some things in detail at that meeting. Staff Just wanted to bring that up .again so everybody was aware that these are. in the plan and can look to further discuss them tonight. .. Robbins: Todd, are we limited to these nine or could we put another 10, others that might be explored? Isn't it possible there might be one added later in the year that this mlight come under the same jurisdiction? Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 25 Gerhardt: You'll notice this is. RobbinG: I say that as a general question. Gerhardt: This is Modification No. 11.so we pretty much come on to an annual review of the plan and make a modification yearly. So last year we had Modification No. 10. If you want to add projects into the future we can always make another modification at any time. RobbinG: Related to that question then, I'm going to assume that this is going to be concurrent to number 3, the goals? Gerhardt: Correct. RobbinG: I would move we accept memo stated by Todd Gerhardt dated the 13th of February, 1992. Modification No. ll. Wot kma n: Seco nd. Bohn: Any questions? Chmiel: Yeah, just a couple. In going through some' of the attachments that you had with this Todd, where the estimate of the project cost. We're talking it probably is at our assessment rate less $30,000.00 to operate to qualify for reduction equal to 7~ of the value of the property. Ashworth: That particular section is very old. It's reallly been in the plan for at least l0 years. Chmiel: The question I ask in that, should that be updated? Ashworth: Well. Chmiel: Or is it still? Ashworth: Can you recall where this? There's a particular set of properties that came into play which is the reason that we had set the I'm wondering if that wasn't associated with the downtown. Because the assessments in that area were much higher than thew were out in the Business Park and exceeded that $30,000.00 amount that was put in there. Since those were done, and I'm not anticipating we're going to do anything more, that probably is still a reasonable number. Chmiel: Okay. Alright. Just a question. The other thing on the original tax capacity, we're talking about tax increment, housing projects and so on, and that's item R. Q and R. And the subsidized housing is fine to a point and I think we probably need some of that within the city. My question is, once this housing does go in and it being subsidized substantially, who operates those facilities? Workman: The owner. Are you talking about apartments or single family? Ashworth: There's a multiplicity of potential answers - Are any. of the units over in 3acobson's, are any of those eligible for like Section 8? 'Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 26 Anyway, if they are. Gerhardt: That's the second question I've have like that this week. Because if it did qualify for subsidy, that's where the shooting occurred. And that would have impacted us if we subsidized that unit in any way. We don't. Ashworth: Well it does though like under Section 8. I'm sure that the rents per unit are low enough to take and qualify for the Metropolitan Section 8 program. I would be, I'm almost sure there's units in there that are subsidized. But those go through the Metropolitan Agency. 20~ of the units in the Heritage Apartment are subsidized units and the management there, are the ones that actually the responsibility for leasing and meeting all of the federal guidelines for a subsidy program. Therein lies the problem in that tho~e units, and HRA members have expressed this'to me several times before, were and have been very disappointed because that project was approved as a senior housing project where 20~ of the units would be senior units. Yet in the final turn of events in one of the last presentations made by Brad was to the extent that well we still want to see seniors in there and we're still going to you know the new requirements under the federal law now say that we just have to change a little bit and we have to put in there. Workman: We'll attempt to. Ashworth: Low income. Low and moderate income or §eniors. Well, that's knocked out all of your seniors. Because what happens is a senior citizen that gets $5,000.00 or $8,000.00 a year in social security, th'e one person, husband potentially died and potentially $100,000.00 from the sale of a house and whatever, so number one there's an asset limitation. The $100,000.00 basically keeps them out of .that. ' And realizing $100,000.00 to live the rest of your life on, the next 5, 10, 20 years, that's not a lot of money. Chmiel: Geez, I'd better not retire. Ashworth: And so if they're making whatever amount in interest, they're going from day to day. It's not that easy for them. But a lady who's husband has run off and left her with the two kids and she-makes $12,000.00 as a waitress, there are the 3 people in the family, they'll take the $12,000.00 and divide it by 3 and if i~'s $4,000.00 it will greatly exceed the seniors. The long and the short of it is you have no seniors in that facility. Going back to trying to respond to your question. I would hope that at some point in time we would be able to build a senior facility that we would be able to build it using HRA dollars. That we would be able to tell the feds they can take all of their rules and stick them, specifically the ones that talk about the percent of minority contractors, prevailing wage, Bacon Davis Act, specifying particular pieces of equipment t-hat have to be used that are at outrageous costs simply 'because they're got them in their circular. And that we set our own regulations as to who we're going to allow in there and that we do it on the basis of not kicking somebody out that may have $100,000.00 or $200,000.00 and getting social security in the amount of $5,000.00. You can do that. There are successful programs out there like that. They are administered through people and we've met' Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 27 with them. Catholic charities. Is that the group we met with? I got their card upstairs. They're very excited about the possibility of potentially doing something in Chanhassen. We haven't pursued that to date because we haven't really set it as a primary goal. 8ut I personally ' believe that we should and we are close to having the wherewithal, in other words the money, to actually do that. To create our own rules. To make sure that we treat our own people the way we should. Part of that goes back to assigning the task back to our newly created senior commission and hopefully the Council will act on that this upcoming Monday and agree to that. 8ut to identify specifically what are the needs for senior citizens. How many units are needed at this point in time and then to bring that information back to you so that you can make a decision yes, we should move ahead with the senior housing project or we shouldn't. Chmiel: 3ust one other' question. On the resolution as the finalization under item number 1. Where it says HRA's request to submit plans to Planning Commission for review and comment regarding consistency of the plans in compliance with the plans for development of the city as a whole. And I think this is being done but I'd like to see something more added to that with the publication date for input as a public informational meeting. 8y putting this in the paper and we just explain that part when it does go to the Planning Commission? Gerhardt: I went to the Planning Commission meeting~ Chmiel: So the general public basically is aware as to what's being done. Gerhardt: I went to the Planning Commission last night with this and they approved the resolution and the plan.' I presented, Dick was present. I showed them the concepts for the entry monuments. I showed them the central park concepts. I showed them the entry monuments. We. talked at length about, they also saw the economic development district modifications' over by McGlynn. We talked about the school sites and some of the park and lift station land acquisition. We talked about each of these 9 modifications. They gave some great input back to staff on the lettering associated with some of the entry monuments. We used this type of lettering and one of them said, is this lettering western motif type of design and aren't we trying to get away from that? I said that's a good comment. Nobody ever brought that up. You can pick from 50-60 different type of lettering styles and I said, if they wanted before HRA approves plans and specifications for some of that construction, that we could run it through the Planning Commission and get some of their input and b~ing it back to the HRA and let you know how they reviewed that. We talked about the Hanus acquisition and why the HRA was acquiring that land.. The basic reason was to try to incorporate the TH 5 corridor and the landscaping that would go with that. And I told them that the future of the building was still, no decision's been made. If it's going to stay or not stay. We talked about.the public library and the senior housing complex. It's been a policy of the city'whenever we do construction that. we run through the Planning Commission site plan review process so that they would also see that before any action would be taken. And they were excited. I t'hink I started about 8:30 and I got out of there at quarter to 10:00 so we talked for about an hour and a half on both the plans. But they approved both of them. They were excited and they want to be a part of it. They Housing and Redevelopment Authority February 20, 1992 - Page 28 want to review some of these things. I told them that the HRA is always looking for input from anybody and that we would run it through them. Chmiel: I guess the question I'm really leading to is, is it self explanatory showing that this is what we're going to talk about at the Planning Commission? So people are aware if they're interested rather than getting it. Gerhardt: The public hearing for March 9th is at the City Council level. Chmiel: Yes I know. Gerhardt: What the Planning Commission needs to do is to pass a resolution saying that yes, a central park could be built in City Hall. In front of City Hall. That yes, you could build a housing, senior housing project in the downtown. Yes, a library could work on the Pony/Pauly/Pryzmus. That that is consistent with the overall zoning and planning for the community in whole. And that the HRA isn't bringing an industrial building into a commercial area and things like that. So they need to pass .a resolution saying that these plans are consistent with the land use plan and the zoning for these areas. Ashworth: I'm sure that that was put into State law to insure that in any one city an HRA did not do somethin.g that was inconsistent with the city's comprehensive plan. Chmiel: Okay. Robbing moved, Norkman seconded that the H~using and Redevelopment Authority adopt Resolution No. 92-1 approving Modification No. ll to the Redevelopment and Tax Increment Financing Plan for the Chanhassen Downtown Redevelopment ProJect. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Gerhardt: A copy of this has also been sent-down to the school district and the county. CONSIDERATION ANP APPROVA~ OF PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS AND 'AUTHORIZATION TO TAKE BIDS FOR DEMOLITION OF THE CHANHASSEN MEADOWS APARTMENTS,' Workman: I'm going to need a box of tissues for this number 6 item. Gerhardt: It's too bad. You brought up a good point here and my mistake. I'm going to have to ask you to delete this from the agenda because it is outside the district and you're not. going.to get to pay for this demolition. This is going to have to go back to City Council which is the acting economic development agency for that district. So that was my mistake. I work with you guys so much I want to put everything on your agenda. Workman: We're still wondering if we really want to tear it down. Chmtel: Tom would like to move it a little closer to his place. Housing and Redevelopment. Authority February' 20, 1992 - Page '29 Workman: It's now become a historical site because of the fact that I live there. APPROVAL OF BILLS: Workman moved, Robbins seconded to approve'the Bills as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Gerhardt: Along with that last item, you guys have' seen the reviews of - those relocations and you have to go back and have Sean recode those over- to the economic development district. So those will not be expenditures to the HRA but to that district. So that's another mistake I made. Workman move, Robbtns seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting ~as'adjourned. Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director prepared by Nann Opheim