1992 06 18CHANH~SSEN HOUSING ~
REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
3UNE 18, 1992
Chairman Horn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Don Chmiel, and Jim Bohn
MEMBERS ABSENT: Charlie Robbin$ and Tom Workman
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; and Todd Gerhardt, Asst.
Executive Director
~PPROVA~ OF M~NUTES: Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated April 23, 1992 as
presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
(The taping of the meeting began at this point in the discussion.)
A1Klingelhutz: ...I'd like to call on Cheryl to start this out.
..
Cheryl: We were brought into the discussion early this spring and alerted
to the fact that you were looking at places to locate a new Chanhassen
library in your planning. We were very happy to see this because as you
know, our library is increasing greatly in useage along with population
increase in Chanhassen. Mary has a chart that kind of shows the increase
in the last 10 years. If you could pass. that through. Chanhassen is.the
block in the dark blue. We were delighted to see, not only that you're
considering building a new library but also that you're giving it a good
prominent place in the community. We have some wonderful sites to look at
and the Library Board felt that'with this increase in useage, Chanhassen
circulation has increased 133~ in the last 10 years. 11~ increase just in
this past year. We wanted to really put some thought into the best
possible site in planning for this increase which we anticipate will
continue into the future. So that's why we brought in David Smith to help
us look at some of the factors to consider and he's been working on this
plan. Looking at the sites and complying information. The Library Board
met Tuesday night and had a lengthy discussion about it and felt that we
would like to come to you and ask you to consider as the best possible
site, the location on the corner of Market BlvdJ-and 7Bth Street. Lot 4,
Outlot A. Now I'd like to call on David Smith to give some comments on
what goes into determining a prime library location.
Gerhardt: I handed out maps that.
Chmiei: Yeah, we have them here.
David Smith: Good evening. I'm David Smith, consultant librabrian
from Hopkins, Minnesota. I resided in Hopkins, Minnetonka for off and on
30 years now and it used to take me a lot longer to get to Chanhassen back
in the $O's and 70's than it did this evening. I have been a practicing
librarian for over 30 years. Before I became a full time' consultant, I was
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 2
with Hennepin County as the Associate Director of that ltbrary. It was
during a period of time when we built about 19 new libraries in Henneptn
County and I was the primary site selector in most of the properties that
those libraries are now on. I do this on a national basis now so I'm
pretty familiar not only with the needs of a suburban library, both
operationally and in terms of location of the site here but I've drawn from
a lot of experience I've had across the country.. When we look at a library
of this sort, we're looking not only at what the current needs are in terms
of a size of building and what it's going'to be doing over the years but in
the distant future, which maybe lO, 15, 20 years, how big that.library
might have to become in order to adequately serve.the community. It's
interesting to see the various lines of population projection for this
particular community from relatively conservative to some fairly .
substantial projections which could lead us, I guess conservatively to a
population of about 17,500 in the year 2005, to substantially more than
that if you exercise a more optimistic point of view. The relationship of
this is that we try to provide in a library these days to accommodate both.
the print collection and all the non-print technology that goes into a
library. About one square foot per capita in a community. So if we're
looking here at a population now as [ understand it to be approaching 13,
or a little over 13,000. Applying that particular approach we'd want to
start with a library that was at least 13,000 square feet in size. A
factor you have at work here too that's somewhat similar to Hennepin County
and the other suburban counties in the metropolitan area is the fact that
your major communities in the county that build the larger libraries serve
as a draw. In this case you're going to serve as a draw for a retail
population. Upwards of 30,000 I understand with the new Market Square
development and you'll also service a library draw. In other words, many
people come from other areas of the County to make use of this library so
we're anticipating that we'll have a demand from population that's not just
within the city but throughout Carver County. We looked then at the site
and location criteria. I tend to separate them first into general
location. What are we looking for without getting to a specific site and
it's perhaps not surprising, but it's-probably the same sort of criteria
that anyone as a business person would look at in terms of selecting a good
piece of property that's going to generate as much use as possible, and
that's a key theme in this because you can build a library most anywhere.
It's a non-mandated service in the community. You can put it on a back
road. You can put it in a park or whatever but to insure it's maximum use,
particularly from people that are going to be coming from outside the
community, it needs good visibility. It needs good access. And so you
look at the piece of property with that in mind. Over ther years, even
though you may pay more for a piece of property, the use of the library
built at that location is going to be substantially higher and I had many
cases where this was true in Hennepin County. I lire'in an area where
there are 3 libraries between ll,O00 and.iS,000 square feet Within 2 miles
of my home and those libraries are used at differing rates and it's largely
due to the location. Library has the same number'of hours. Has the same
type of collection. Has the same demographics as far as population'so the
main difference in those three libraries use has to do with the.location of
the building. And when you're paying for heat, light, electricity, staff
and all the rest of it, you might as well get the maximum value out of your
investment. When you come down then from the location and it's
accessibility and visibility and to the specific site requirements, you're
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 3
looking at a piece of property that has good configuration. Obviously the
topography is a factor in the sites that we've looked at here in the
community. Topography is not an issue. You have relatively level, easy to
build on sites. Pretty useable sites. We're looking at property that's
available, either through acquisition or that the city owns and again we
have a number of properties that the city has already identified as
possibilities where there is availability and access. $o then you look
within the community. Which one of those properties satisfy the various
requirements of the user access and the visibility the best. We start out
with four sites actually. Shown on the map that you've received. Property
which is the Pauly's site, West 78th Street and Great Plains Boulevard.
Property adjacent to the MGM Liquor Store'down on West 79th Street.
Redevelopment area property using existing buildings on Bowling Alley Road.
I was called by Fred Hoisington the other day and said that that was no
longer available as a possible site. So that one should be crossed out.
And then the fourth one is the one across the corner on Market Blvd. and
West 78th Street. As we've looked at the various properties, the least
desireable of the three properties is the one on West 78th Street from a
location standpoint in that you have relatively low traffic service
businesses located on that street. It's not a highly visible piece of
property. I suspect that's one of the reasons why the MGM Liquors is
taking advantage of moving to a more visible location.at the shopping
center. The property backs up to the railroad tracks which could present
some possible hazard from users. Young users in the community. I should
interject at this point too. The size of the properties is going to play a
role both in allowing the necessary amount of parking as well as the
anticipated expansion in the future. That particular parcel is 1.2 acres.
Now if we look at a library serving ahywhere from 13, 15, to 20,000 people
in the city with adequate parking, we're looking at a site, minimum site of
approximately 1.65 acres. So in terms of long, possible expansion on that
particular location, it doesn't work very well. But the location is the
factor that that would be ruled out immediately. So we really have two
major sites that best fulfill the possible use by the library. That's
the Pauly's site. There has been some development of site plan there which
shows roughly a triangular piece of property. It too is about 1.2 acres,
although there is some property further down that could possibly be
reorganized, rearranged to accommbdate just a bit larger site. So the
triangular piece of property there presents a little bit of a problem in
terms of being able to get a building designed, at least as it was shown on
some of the initial development plans which allow for best functioning
within the building. In othe~ words, they showed the library opening at
the long end down by St. Hubert's Church which creates a more difficult
floorplan to operate. The building that can be accommodated there
presently is about 12,000 square feet. There was some indication that the
expansion could take place but it would have %o be done at a second level.
This is not for this size of library a practical solution because in terms
of operating costs, staffing costs, two story libraries Just don't funtion-
in a category below 30,000 square feet. Good case in point, in Henneptn
County we had 26 community libraries. Area libraries and only one of those
libraries is more than one story, although they are adding onto 'one of the
35,000 square foot buildings now to a second level but only the $outhdale
Library, which is about 65,000 feet is currently a multi-level building. I
do a lot of work in Carneige Libraries throughout the country and that's
one of the great deficiencies of Carneige Libraries because they're planned
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, i992 - Page 4
two levels and they become less efficient for staff operations and they
become harder for the public to use because you'have to divide your
collections between two floors. So we've got a good location on the Pauly
site in terms of some other institutions there that give it character.
Obviously the road system provides good access. The commercial draw there
is not as strong as it is obviously down at the Market Square area. That
kind of tips the balance if you weight'these two sites out in terms of
their relative value to one another. 'The Market Square site, when you take
both of those lots, is about 1.85 or 1.8 acres as I recall. You have a
real distinct advantage there in long term because you have around 435
parking spaces scheduled to be constructed on that site to serve the
adjacent businesses. So at a point in the future, even though a building
might be expanded and use a considerable amount of the available site, you
would still have a fair amount of on site par. king and then you'd also have
the potential to overflow and people who'would come there to use the
commercial facilities could also then come from their cars to the library
and utilize it that way. So the overall evaluation of those properties.is
that on a short term basis, if you don't allow for expansion, the Pauly
site is a good location and a reasonably good site. If you look at all of
the elements of dimension, location, expandability and parking, the Market
Square site proves out to be better in the long term. So that's where
we've got it at the present time. I'd be happy'to answer questions.
Horn: Any questions from the Commissioners?
8ohn: Have you thought about the. corner, the northwest corner of Kerber
and 78th Street?
David Smith: No. That has not come up. Could you identify exactly where
that is?
Bohn: Just west of here.
David Smith: Okay. This is a property that has a For Sale sign on it
now? Yes. I looked at that just in passing when I came ~ut here for a
meeting the other day. That would, depending on-the size of the parcel and
all, that could be made to work certainly. I think if you, without looking
at how big it would be and it's exact configuration, I'd say location is
probably a little bit stronger because of the things that'down at this end
of town as opposed to the Pauly's site. But in terms of general location,
that would probably fit in there pretty well.
Horn: Other questions? Don.
Chmiel: Yeah I guess I had just a couple. In looking at our proposed
population as to what we have now, presently at 13,000 as you indicated,
and to what our potential full growth needs would be and I see probably
anywhere between 30 to 35,000 people in our community. And that I look at
from Just because of what we have contained within the city and space and
what lot sizes could be construed from that. With that particular size to
this, and I'm looking at your minimum site requirements, the library
building, single floor which is 15,000 square feet and of course you need
the additional parking spaces which would consist of 60. Single floor
seems to me, and I understand what you're saying is that you need more
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 5
people within a library to facilitate that. If you put two stories on that
particular building. But I see some of the things as I remember Hennepin
County with their two floors as they have and the accessibility of coming
down. There's always one checkout area. The need of having additional
people upstairs would probably be one more but I'm thinking-that could also
be worked through a communication kind of line that you could have. If
they have a question, that they come back downstairs through-a telephone
intercommunication kind of system. But having those stairs on the, coming
in within the main portion of that library, still the access of going out
and checking out books would be still through that main floor. Wouldn't i't
be a benefit to have a second story in that particular instance?
David Smith: In what size of building then are you referring to? The
larger size?
Chmiel: Probably something maybe a little larger than what you're
indicating.
David Smith: If you're getting up closer to 30,000 square feet, then one
might assume that you're going to have-the basic tax support where you
could afford a larger staff. The danger is, assuming too soon that it's
going to wo?k and let's say in the 20,000 square foot range, that it's good
economy to do that sort of thing. One of the real problems and I've gone
through this with a couple of buildings that are approaching 60,000 square
feet out in another state. Part of it is the determination of what you
split off and put on another floor and the degree to which the people using
it are going to require some level of service' One of the things that
libraries, you know you don'.t see it as much in your present library but
the libraries, particularly the size we're talking about here are going to
start moving more and more to, is that we use a lot more hardware.
Computers, CD ROMs, audio visual material and that sort of thing.. And
people need assistance in accessing information on that way so it's more
and more difficult to try to operate libraries with distant floors that you
don't have a full time commitment to' staff. I do a lot of costing out of
staff requirements in buildings like that and to maintain a staff desk in a
building that may be open 50 or 60 hours a week just with a single, person
behind it can run $40,000.00 or SSO,O00.O0 a year. Kind of .a rule of thumb
figure that can be applied in many cases. Over a 20 year period, it might
cost you in a larger library like this, a million dollars more in staffing
to provide for staff at that level. Now that's probably an extreme and
maybe an exaggerated example but I know from my own experience actually
operating multi floor buildings that they are more difficult and more
expensive to operate.
Chmiel: From a staff standpoint is what you're saying?
David Smith: Yes. And also from a public and user standpoint. One of the
things that happens that libraries don't just decide what sort of
configuration you're going to have in a building. The Southdale library is
a good example of that. It was built in '73 and before I.left the County
in '85, I participated in about 6 remodelings within that building. It's
kind of llke the Guthrie-Theatre in some Nays. You were striking'sets and
changing them on various floors because things worked or they didn't work
very well or some new service came in and it had a priority over some
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 6
existing service. And so it's good to'have that sort of flexibility built
into a building. And a larger building on a multi level you can do that
but it's going to be a'building that you have to have'the staff resources
to make it operate. So I'd say anything below the 20,000 square fcc% level
which is a fairly long term for this community, would encourage you to
think in terms of a good single floor library.
Horn: Further questions? I have no more.
presentation.
Thank you for your
A1 Klingelhutz: This library site has been discussed for maybe a year or
so. I think Don is pretty familiar with that. The Library 8card felt it
was very important to take into consideration while there is some good
visible site still available that haven't been developed. That we should
come in and give you some ideas of what was really needed in a library and
we'd like to thank you for your time. Hope you take us under your
consideration.
Horn: Thank you very much Al.
Chmiel: Yeah, thanks for coming in. Appreciate it.
Horn: Brad, did you have a visitor presentation?
Brad Johnson: Mr. Chairman, I was asked by Don Ashworth to come before You
because we have and maybe the Library Board people would like to stick
around for a minute. We have some development pressure now starting to
happen on Market Square Blvd. or Market Blvd. and also on the site on 79th
Street. I don't think we'll accomplish that tonight because of the agenda,
because you've got other things to think about but I thought I'd throw this
at you and you might make it an agenda item for next time. We currently
have two people that are interested in the site also that you guys are
interested in. The reasons are for the same reasons. That it is probably
perceived to be a very high profile site in the community and they're just
quite different uses. One would be a fast food and the other one is a
medical clinic. The difference would be not substantial in what they would
pay for the land. In both cases they'd pay somewhere between $400,000.00
and $500,000.00. Ultimately. In the one' case, only half the lot is needed
so they'd pay, buy half and we'd be left with the other half. In one case
the whole lot would be needed and that's the case of the clinic. The
clinic would want to wait a couple years before the construction was
anticipated to start but would enter into a contract immediately and within
2 years consider that. They'd also consider by the way the 79th Street
area because they feel that's a good location as anyplace but not currently
available certain points between there and the proposed Target. The bottom
line is that both of those would generate in the neighborhood of SSO,O00.O0
to $100,000.00 a year in taxes. Pay the City $400,000.00 to $500-,000.00
but, as I said, are quite different uses. We don't, as you know, I
represent the Bloomberg Companies. The Bloomberg Companies are under
contract and basically own the property. And so I am, they have the right
to repurchase it from the City and the City can match the price 'at that
time. I think we'd all like to just kind of generally start off in a
direction that seemed to be one that you guys were interested in seeing
happen. And so those are things that are happening. The clinic is St.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 7
Francis Hospital. Medical clinic and they are currently trying to plan
where they'd like to be. They have other locations that they'd be
interested in in the city. I mean this is not the only one. I'm Just
saying these are things that you'll have-to kind of come to some conceptual
decision on and then work that out with the Bloomberg's ultimately if a
purchase agreement comes.in. So we're going to be needing maybe by next
time some direction from you as to the type of development you'd like to
see on that corner. I'm. sure the Library Board'would be interested in the
same thing and I was not aware that you guys were going to be here. This
was just my mission this evening on the part of St. Francis and also the
people that are interested in the fast food type of thing. And we're going
to have that pressure. Because this is HRA and inevitably you're going to
be involved in it in some way, so you'll.have some control so I thought I'd
let you know that and as I said, it's a busy agenda but we should be
discussing it probably no later than next time. Thanks Clark.
Horn: Put that on the agenda for next time. Any other visitor
presentations? If not, let's move on into the regular agenda.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF PRIVATE REDEVELOPMENT CONTRACT. MRIL SOURCE. INC.
Gerhardt: Mr. Chairman, HRA members. Included in your packet is a private
redevelopment contract between the HRA and Mail Source for the development
of a 15,000 square foot office/manufacturing facility. Under the HRA
special assessment reduction program, Mail Source Inc. is asking for
assistance in writing down specials of`.$54,458.00 and the. remaining
increment to be used to write down the land of $27,834.00. In our
calculations this would amount to $82,293.00 in taxes over the 3 year
period. So they are staying within the HRA's guidelines of- 3 years. Staff
would recommend approval of- the private redevelopment agreement and land
write down.
Horn: Comments from Commissioners.
Chmiel: I'm just wondering maybe if the proposer of this particular
business wanted to say something. If he's here this evening.
Gerhardt: He's not here this evening. He had to sub some work out into
Cokato in the building that he subbed the work out has been blown up
through that tornado mess so he's got some problems right now.
Horn: This is consistent with all of the other programs we've had?
Gerhardt: That's correct.
Chmiel: And the contract that we pull together is also consistent with all
other contracts that we've had?
Gerhardt: Yes, similar to the last two agreements that we've entered into
with Bloomberg Companies. Or the last two that we've worked on.
Horn: If there's no questions, I would accept a motion to approve.
Bohn: I make the motion.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 8
Chmiel: Second.
Bohn moved, Chmie! seconded to approve the Private Reclevelopment-Agreeme. nt
with Mat! Source, Inc. and their request of ~82,293.00 tn specia!
assessment and land write down a~tstance. All voted in'favor and the
motion carried.
REVIEW ALTERNRT~V~ PLANS FOR REDEVELOPMENT OF THE BOWLING CENTER/CONFEReNCE
CENTER/HOTEL AREA.
Gerhardt: Don just stepped out but this last Tuesday we had' a very good
meeting with individuals belonging to the hotel group. The Dinner Theatre,
the bowling alley and from this meeting we had Fred Hoisington give some
alternative schematics of the bowling alley, back of the Dinner Theatre and
hotel expansion area. At this time we'd like to have Fred go through some
of the items that we discussed at that meeting and also show you those
schematics.
Fred Hotsington: Thanks Todd. As you know, two of you in particular
because you've been on this HRA for a good many years. We have been
working together on this downtown for the past, well you've been much
longer than I but I for the past 7 years. And when we first got involved
with downtown and looked at some, I guess we were looking at more things
that couldn't happen at that time and there was a lot of pessimism about
whether things would ever take place in dowDtown Chanhassen. 'Perhaps. for
good reason there were a lot of buildings that were not very good or very
conducive to re-use, many of which had %o come down and have subsequently
come down. The worst and most difficult part of this downtown is the one
we're going to be dealing with this evening and we were here last month and
talked a little bit about it. But what I'd like to do is go back and cover
just a little bit of territory in that respect because I can't impress on
you enough how difficult this particular area of downtown Chanhassen is.
It's not like any other part of the downtown because everything else for
the most part faces onto West 78th Street and is pretty easily made to fit
face, work with the street itself and the traffic that happens to be on
that street. What happens on the backside however is a little different.
As you know, everything is oriented to West 78th Street: and has been
historically, or I should say since 1968 or there shouts when the Dinner
Theatre itself was constructed and prior to that'.time, the things that
really were here were more industrial in nature. Not the commercial kinds
of things that we're trying to and have been trying to encourage on this
side of the street for the past several years. The difficulty is trying to
turn this around and trying to make a back a front. That's the one thing
that simply has not been easily able to be accomplished and that's why this
is the last piece of puzzle that will have to.be put together before this
area will have development that is compatible with the rest of downtown.
Now, to explain to you, as you know there is a vertical change'in elevation
that runs through the center of this back side. If it were at the same
elevation, it would be easier but not easy to.relate the back to the front
and there are a number of ways that that might have occurred if this were
not here. This were...north/south direction which we still thiDk is
important. But to get people down one level from an area that kind of
blocks it is sort of double jeopardy. It doesn't work very well and we've
..
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 9
been trying to ftgure'out for the past several years how we can get people
to come around to the back side. In addition to that, we have the vacant
warehouse or the city building or the Instant Webb building or what's left
of it. It's sort of still vacant. The mill shop and the scene shop, which
is in use but probably wouldn't be if it weren't used for a scene shop. So
we have a number of buildings that don't' fit very ~ell with downtown and
where changes are going 'to have to occur if that is to be reversed. I
guess I shouldn't say reverse. To create a focus .on this back side. Now
the last time I was here you remember we talked' a little bit about the
various broad concepts that we had looked at or had been looking at over
the years from sort of a do nothing, which uses or re-uses all of the
buildings pretty much in their present form and the kinds of uses we would
envision seeing occur here might be things like lumber yards, heavy
commercial kinds of uses. Things that do not fit in particularly well with
the, either the zoning that happens to apply to the downtown redevelopment
plan for Chanhassen. A retail center which would essentially call for the
elimination of most everything that's back here. We're not saying that's
bad. We're just simply saying that if you-ever were to have retail here,
it would have to orient to Market Square. It can't function by itself on
the back side of this block down one level. The third alternative is the
one that we're developing the alternatives for and the ones that we want to
discuss with you this evening and that happens, to be what we term an
entertainment and recreation center. It's an integrated kind of
development that puts everything together and allows it to function as a
unit and since the seeds are already here in the Dinner Theatre and so
forth, it seems to us that that becomes the seed around which everything
else must grow. It's an anchor on this end. For the hotel, not an anchor,
very strong support element on the far Nest end and this end. How we
connect all this together in a fashion that makes everything work...talking
about this evening. After our last session with you. and getting some
positive feedback about the third alternative, we'went back and began to
development some other alternatives or some other concepts and spent a
little bit more time on them. I won't suggest to you that those are final
because they're not. They're sort of another stage in the evolution of
looking at plans for the south side but let me tell you some of the things
we took into consideration in this case. Some of the parameters. Some of
the needs and so forth that we felt needed to be addressed and will need to
be addressed as the project is put together here. We know that the scene.
shop wants to relocate and that it's been looking at the Frontier Building.
We have not short term concerns about that but we have some lo.ng term
concerns about that because we're not sure just how that building will fit
into the long term plan here as a scene shop. We know that the hotel wants
to expand 24 to 28 rooms and they'd like to. do that in the near term. 'And
we know that they would like to have a restaurant as part of the hotel or
as an element in this complex that would service hotel .patrons. We know
that the hotel needs meeting space and it needs to be linked into whatever
we do here to make sure that it's, all of these facilities are kind of
multi-purpose facilities. Able to serve not only the city but the hotel
and all of the users within this complex. '~nd we know that Filly's has
been sort of a pain in our sides for a long time and is really has turned
into a detriment or one of the things that has not allowed the development
to occur here. In the early days it wasn't so bad. In the later days,
it's not so good. And then the whole question of whether we can create a
focus on the south side and whether can find viable uses there and whether
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page ~0
we can improve the image from TH 5~ across the railroad tracks and the back
side of this development in some manner or form and whether we.can do
something with the city building,-which is probably always going to have
the kind of use that you currently see there. Unless it's eliminated or so
substantially rennovated that you wouldn't recognize it. One of the things
that we're concerned about is also the bowling center. There's been a
substantial investment made in that facility and we think that maybe that
is a good thing for a recreation center and that we ought to protect that
investment inasmuch as we can. Ne have been struggling with the hiding, if
you will or screening of the back of the Dinner Theatre and trying to-
figure out a way that we can put something there so that, while it's a
tremendous asset, the back side. is not. $o we need to do some screening in
that case. The city seems to need meeting space. The city perhaps needs
now to address indoor recreation facilities and of' course there are some
very critical, important phasing considerations here. What things should
go first. What things should go later. What I'd like to do, I also have
Tim Steffen here who is the architect that's been working with us on this
particular project. I think what I will do is quickly run through Just the
broad concepts and then have Tim embellish the alternative that seems,
anyway at this point to be rather preferred by those who would have a
chance to look at the plans. And there are four alternatives and a couple
of permeatations on the last one that I will just briefly cover. Hotel as
it exists. Expansion. Retail. And in this particular scheme the proposal
would be to completely wipe out the Instant Webb building. This is sort of
the clean slate approach where everything ~ould be eliminated .... phase 1.
A lobby and entry. A north/south access via an escalator into the hotel
meeting space. That first element would be primarily there to serve or to
provide service to the city and to the hotel. Then elaborating or
expanding on that concept, the addition of a recreation center-with
racquetball, classrooms, gymnasiums, pool, locker rooms and aerobic
facilities and so forth. And this plan really ends up with everything
here...somewhat behind the retail does not do one of the things that we
would like to see happen here which is to screen the back of the Dinner
Theatre. Another alternative would be one which started with Phase 1 and
leaving the bowling center in place. Leaving a good share of it in place.
Developing a cinema on the southwest corner. One that could provide some
verticality in that corner. Some identity from TH 5. Moving the
auditorium more to the east. Creating meeting space in this location. And
then further expanding on that and converting some of the space to, as new
space came on line to a recreation center. Another alternative would have
about the same location but would take a little different approach leaving
most all the bowling center in place, as shown here. Adding the auditorium
on the southwest corner. Creating the vertical element here. Creating the
north/south pedestrian access directly from the hotel into that auditorium
space. The meeting space would be very much used by this element but
perhaps more importantly in this scheme, the prominence of the auditorium
and the city needing space. That's one of the reasons,-one of the very
positive things about this particular alternative. And this would finish
it out and add to the recreation center further to the east. Once again
not going very far to the east and penetrating more into the parking lot
which does represent a problem for me in trying to determine whether the
total parking demands or needs can be satisfied. Scheme 4 is again kind of
an efficient approach to this with re-use of most of the bowling center
building as it is currently. With the creation of a cinema on the corner.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 11
In this case a 3 theatre cinema-. The auditorium, being the vertical
element as would the cinema, perhaps as many as 3 stories located here to
which really creates the orientation or the focus for this entry on the
back side of the... And a lobby which would connect into the hotel.
Escalators, and I'll show'you how that fits with...spend a little bit more
time on the back. Then expanding on that with the pool, the racquetball,
recreation center, gymnasium, and' the one thing t did not mention, the
scene shop which we think is important to be in this location primarily
because it is a very important part of the Dinner Theatre operation. But
we'd like to see it in a building not quite like the building that's there
today because that's not a tremendous asset for the city or for this area
in particular. Now one of the things that we felt was important here was
to look at a number of different options for this space. Remember in the
last one, this was cinema and this was banquet and meeting space and we're
concerned about marketability of space here and where do people really want
to go and we think we have to provide a range of options that may make it a
bit more palatable and what we're suggesting is that this could ~ork as a
restaurant space because most of the space is already filled out. One
thing that it would need is kitchen with it but the possibility would be
the restaurant with the cinema here and leaving the rest of this pretty
much as is except if we use this space for cinema, we lose the daytime
daycare or child care opportunities that the bowling.center requires and we
might then be able to connect this into that to serve that purpose. Now
one of the neat things about this is that we have also gotten Herb'
Bloomberg's juices flowing and the drawing you see up here on the wall is
Herb's response to the things that we've done on the back side with some
rethinking of the things that could happen on the front side. And some of
the things that Herb is talking about include, this is the Dinner Theatre'
end and the hotel end, would be perhaPs filling this space between the drug
store and the Dinner Theatre-complex with a restaurant. We found some very
interesting things. You could build a restaurant here. That would, be no
further from the kitchen than the present restaurants'elsewhere in the
Dinner Theatre. In addition to that, we could keep this barrier or this
continuous walkway all the way through and on the alternative I've shown
you, that's not the case. Herb is also talking about the possibility of
some sort of a civic entry that would provide us with that north/south
connection from West 7$th Street and he's kind of fit this all together so
it works well with the bowling center, the pool, the showers, and the rest
of the recreation center and still can provide the service that. will be
necessary on the back side. 'Now all the details of this have yet to be
worked out but the good thing is that we think it all works and has some
possibility of being able to put together and put together in a fashion
that you see in this case we've shown in relationship to the civic entry
and the restaurant to the as Herb has shown it but it sort of fits. this
whole thing together so we can have an access or a corridor to come through
the buildings, in the front as it burrently does and then continues on into
the Dinner Theatre itself. $o what I'd like Tim to do.is to talk just
briefly about the amenities and so forth related to this particular plan...
Tim Steffen: A couple of the items that we felt were real important or
parameters that we...place of entry for the structure. A place where
people can identify the entry. We organized the butldin~...two masonry
elements. One fits in the auditorium and-the other masonry element...
sandwiched between those two elements are all the visual activity things
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 12
where we need lights and air and interesting to watch, like aerobics and
weights. Those kinds of functions. And then located...acttvities that are
the showers, locker rooms and racquetball up against.the back side of the
existing retail. So we both end up with the recreation center to the park
and to the site and then it's kind of sandwiched as bookends on either
end... It uses the topography of the site by providing solid elements back
up against higher grade change and then ope. n it up to grade levels down at
the lower... We've also opened up an access point from West 78th Street
down into the facility by an exciting grade change that occurs...and into
the recreation center but also provides another access point other than the
civic entry. Thanks.
Fred Hoisington: Just one last couple of points. We changed the name of'
the road... The phasing of this plan would include the cinema in Phase 1.
The hotel expansion and restaurant if the restaurant were to go in this
location or perhaps a meeting space if it did not. And then the
auditorium, the lobby and so forth, so ail of this potentially could be
phase 1 and the parking improvements themselves would-be made in phase 1.
The scene shop would be appropriately done in phase 1. So leave the
roadway connection to the old one and then everything here, in way of the
recreation center and all of the interconnections and so forth between,
would be kind of Phase 2 elements. We're not sure exactly what the
appropriate timing of that might be but it might be over the next 5 or so
years. Some other things that are important here though that we think are
critical with this particular plan is the effect it would have on the
service area and screening the back side of. the Dinner Theatre and then we
can begin to potentially berm, screen, landscape this area such that we can
just about take everything out of play that has been sort of a negatives
about this south side. So we are very optimistic that this kind of plan,
in fact we've had difficulty getting very excited about the kinds of things
that happen on this back side because we haven't very many viable uses for
it. We've talked cinema for a long time. We've talked restaurants for a
long time but I think only with these elements might we reasonably be
expected to turn everything around and create that focus that we see
happening on this side and actually creating this whole sense of community
center which could very appropriately occur in this location. $o Mr.
Chairman with that, I'll step down and would be happy to answer any
questions you might have.
Horn: Questions Jim?
Ashworth: Could I add?
Horn: Yes.
Ashworth: One of the reasons we brought this back to you was, we had made
a presentation. A number of the elements in some of these have changed but
they've really changed in response to .changes that have. occurred, I call
within the business community. Before we went into any type of a cost
estimate associated with any of the alternatives, we wanted to make sure
that the business community really supported any type of alternative 'that
we're looking at. I know Mayor Chmtel has continuously stated to me that
he wanted to see what it was that the businesses themselves would be
willing to do back here. What is it that they're going to make Commitments
..
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 13
to? And I know I've had various meetings with Clayton Johnson and the'
hotel and in some ways they come backland say, well what is the vision that
the City has for this overall area? And I think that with what is being
presented here this evening, you're seein~ kind of a merger of both of
those statements. In other words, the vision is really coming from them
but it also, hopefully accommodates some city needs, long range
perspectives of what we want. As Fred noted, we have tried to listen to
what it was that they were trying to tell us in terms of the hotel really
wants to take advantage of that conference type of business that's out
there for groups that are less than 100. Really the auditorium, this
escalator back up into that area can meet both of those needs. When we
were talking before, there's a lot of questions as to really what was going
to happen with the bowling center. We know that the existing owner does
want to sell. He doesn't want to really be in the bowlin~ business. We
did know that Mr. Doreck had a repurchase agreement for that section of the
building and it kind of...in terms of whether that would occur. At this
point in time, in the copy of the.letter in your packet, Mr. Doreck is
saying, we support this type of concept because he sees that as bein8 kind
of the only means whereby the city becomes a player in this whole thing.
That bowling should remain as an activity within the community and... He
recognizes that Ftlly's has been a concern area back to the community from
previous years and potential sale by Mr. Dahlin may, well I think that it
will...and probably turn it into a use that we really don't want. And in
response to that sort of thing, I can work with you coming in with another
operator. Before any of this would transpire, we would propose that you
would be entering into development contracts with the hotel guaranteeing
their construction of the additional 28 rooms or whatever. Construction of
the meeting rooms. And having the tenant for the cinema." Having in place
the development contract as to the square footage that they would be
taking over as a part of that complex. That 81oomber~ Companies would in
fact enter into the following contract to ensure the construction of that
scene shop and basically the overall screening patterns... We me.t with the
businesses and'we wanted to assure that some of these elements in fact did
represent what it was that they wanted to see and I think it's fair to say
that there was 100~ support for this and a desire and a statement being
made that yes, they would be willing to make a commitment to enter into the
development contract to carry out the private construction that would go
along with these plans. I think that most of those people are here this
evening. I see that Mr. 3chh Dorek and his son Steve are here. I believe
the hotel people are here. 81oomberg Companies. Who else? Jim,
representing the Dinner Theatre and that remains as a major component of
anything we do. We have to make sure that the business opportunities, as
they're created from the hotel back to the Dinner Theatre and the Dinner
Theatre back to the hotel and I think Jim can speak to that viability of
those kinds of things need to continue to be there. I'm not sure how many
of the business people want to speak but I do know that a number of them
are here.
Horn: Thanks Don. Guestions?
Chmiel: I think maybe there's some business people here that would like to
discuss some issues.
Horn: Would anyone like to comment on the proposal? Clayton?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 14
Clayton Johnson: Clayton Johnson representing the Btoomberg Companies.
Maybe if we have a library across the street we don't need meeting rooms
for the hotel. But we have, as you know, we've presented at the last
meeting our plan for the redevelopment of the south side of West 78th
Street. We see that thts...concerned about. We need, representing the
hotel interest, we needed an answer as to what was to happen to Fttly's and
we certainly wanted an answer to that before we proceeded with our plan.
We've got 3 of the partners here tonight but I think I'm going to ask Dick
Rasmussen who represents our management company, National Lodging to
comment. Dick.
Dick Rasmussen: Thanks Clayton. I'm Dick .Rasmussen. I represent National
Lodging Management Company. We manage the hotel across the street, Country
Suites. During the past week we have gone out into the community with a
sales blitz as we call it, to repoll the area and see what we really need
over there at the hotel. We come back very pleased again. I might first
say that in the past month we did come in second in occupancy in the entire
southern, southwestern area of the city which we're very pleased with of
course. By out there polling the people on our blitz again'we did find out
that meeting rooms are a problem for us. They're still looking for the
meeting rooms and we are promising'the people that yes, that's coming
the road very shortly. With those meeting rooms of course we hope that we
will need the additional 24 or 28 rooms that is being proposed. We, I
might say are still having a problem behind us and we hope yOU gentlemen
will take a look at for us is the Fill¥'s situation. In the.past, as I've
told you, we did have to put o.n security and lock the doors because of the
traffic from back there. Now we're facing a new problem as we go Into the
summer months and people are opening the windows. It's very noisy out
there in the parking lot area and we are getting some complaints from that
again. Thank you gentlemen.
Horn: Anyone else like to speak on the presentation?
3ohn Dorek: My name is 3chh Dorek 'from Chanhassen Bowl. I've been here "
before and I'm here now only to report to you what's happened so far in the
Chanhassen Bow1 entertainment center, which is what ~e've called it for a
few years. We've had one negative and that's been Filly's. I recognize
it. We recognize it. We have made some changes and it's not anywhere near
as bad as it was. We did it by changing management and helped the problem
but it still has been a problem that we're 'willing to eliminate. However I
would like to say one thing about Filly's. We've had some bad press here a
few years ago when you had a referendum to the, up before the 'people.
Since we've, I and my son Steve have taken over the complete management,
we've had negative things said because we hired Carver .Cc,Jnty Police and we
have taken the philosophy that under aged people, under 21 that attempt to
get in by counterfeiting ID's is bad not only for us but for them. And
most bars will kick them in the bad end and say get out of' here but we
don't do that. We think that that daughter or son might get in somewhere.
Might buy liquor. Might go to a liquor store. Might get in an accident
and so on so the police have been very 9~>od and we take thee people in the
office. Talk to them. Call the parents. Re~Jlt is, it's in the paper and
there's been a ticket issued but it's done what we think is a plus and a
good thing to do rather than just leave them 'go. $o I'm not apologizing
for anything other than Filly's isn't quite as bad as it's been painted.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 15
But over the years we've provided, other than Filly's, we've provided a
wholesome, healthy recreation center for a lot of people. I have these
notes because I put some figures together that are rather interesting.
We've provided a social and a competitive and an instructional type of
recreation that's been for 3 year olds to 93 year olds. You don't have to
be tallest, heaviest, fastest, fattest. There's nothing about it that
requires certain physical requirements and there's records of people 12
years of age and 91 years of age bowling-a 300 game. $o we think that
we've taught a lifetime sport to a lot of people .and they're going to enjoy
it for a lot of times. We have, according to actual count, we have leagues
as some of you know, and we have open bowling. Our figures surprisingly.
are between 4,000 and 5,000 people a week for 36 weeks that come into our
center plus some husbands, wives and so on that naturally follow their
spouses. We've had things such as Senior Class Plays, or Senior Class
Proms. Christmas parties. Birthday parties. Hockey meetings. Baseball
meetings. Dance exercise meetings and classes. Ne have the Bloodmobile
here regularly 'and they're very pleased with it. We've had civic groups
meet. We've done a lot of things with the handicap people'. Most of these
things we supply free. With the.city we participated in your July 4th
celebrations. I kno~ one year 'it cost us quite a bit when we were all-
learning. We continue to participate with you in your Art Festival and in
your, we've done quite a job in the Carver County Food Shelf collection.
We were high for the whole city for a couple of years. And we provide
things, although bowling isn't really doing real well, we do .have a day
where we provide 75 cent bowling for everybody which is pretty low. Much
lower than anyone else. I mentioned exercise and the fact that this is a
sport in addition to just a social thing and this will amaze you I think.
A bowler that bowls 3 games, I'll be through soon, lifts 864 Pounds of dead
weight. He takes that dead weight and in a pendulum swing throws, rolls
860 pounds during his 3 games. He propells those 864 pounds 63 feet' and he
walks 1,620 feet at a brisk rate to do alp these things, so there's some
exercise involved. Probably as much as golf. There are some centers in
the area that are suffering from lack of bustne~. From the high cost of
business and it's a problem for all of us but we think that this is good
for the community. It's become kind of a child with me. I've got 2
centers in Edina and I'm interested in this because I think it's not only
good for John Dorek and Steve,-but it's good for the community and we hope
that you look at it in the same light as I do. Thank you.
Horn: Thanks John. Anyone else care to make some comments?
Jim Jude: Mr. Chairman. Jim Jude from the Chanhassen Dinner Theatres. As
3chh reflects a little bit on the past and present, I would like to reflect
,
a little bit on perhaps my vision of the future of the Dinner. Theatres and
.
how it may tie into this plan. The parent company, International
Broadcasting Corporation, we are anticipating that probably within the next
few months we will have a new owner. We will have new management of the
larger corporation and it will be very interesting to see how it
deceminates down to all the different divisions'. One that has been
mentioned of course in the paper was the Nedertander Group which is. a group
that represents and owns and operates a number of different theatres
throughout the country as well as some outdoor amphttheatres. I think one,
they're going to come in and they're going to be asking a lot of'questions.
Whether it's Nederlander or whoever, those owners and operators may be,
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 16
they're going to be asking a lot of tough questions about the Chanhassen
Dinner Theatre operation. Amongst those questions will be, I'm sure, how
can you or what are the plans to be able to Continue to operate 78,000
square feet and generate revenue on a consistent basis and on a stand alone
and profitable basis? Perhaps not only during the 5 hours .of the evening
when we do our theatre and our dinner theatre product, 'but also during the
day as well. I think we're going to be exploring tho~e. What
opportunities may be there and have to address that. I think they're also
going to be interested in the facility itself. The assessment of what kind
of shape the facility is in. How efficient that facility is going to be
and again, there's going to be some tough questions that we're going to
have to deal with and I'm bringing this up to you all in conjunction with
the plan being presented here tonight because I think that there will
probably, this whole situation will necessitate some changes in the way the
Dinner Theatre has been traditionally operated, t think this group, the
Nederlanders or any other group that will take over the entertainment
properties of IBC, including Chanhassen Dinner Theatres, are going to be,
they may not have the same sentimentality and grasp of tradition and
emotionality that a lot of us have connected' with the business. They're
going to be very much interested in how the business is operated on a
profitable basis and that will be our drtvin~ force. $o we wtlt be
interested in, and I say t4e. Those of us who are management at Chanhassen
Dinner Theatres and anticipate continuing to be management at Chanhassen
Dinner Theatres, would be very much interested in how .the connection is
made from the hotel. This synnergy all along the plaza and connecting back
up with the Dinner Theatres and perhaps the' possibility of using some of
that Dinner Theatre space for different uses than the Dinner Theatre space
and retaining the, even 35,000 square feet. The 600 seat Dinner Theatre.
Perhaps being able to expand that and get more seats in there and adapt to
market changes that are telling us that people aren't going out on Tuesday,
Wednesday and Thursday nights like they used to and we need to be able to
have the opportunity to capture as much business on Friday, Saturday and
Sundays. And maybe retaining some of the lower areas, the theatres and the
meeting and banquet facilities that ar'e available do~n there and continue
to operate our kitchen and make that as efficient as possible. But I'm
suggesting that in any case there will be some changes in how that
operation operates. I am happy to see in the-plan that the scene shop is
an integral part of that. As I mentioned the last time I came before you,
that is also another piece of the formula to make the Dinner Theatres more
successful. Being able to have .the space to save a lot of the sets and the
scenery. Being able to recycle those pieces instead of just simply
destroying them. The opportunity to be able to lease those out perhaps.
Or rent those out to other community theatr, es, high schools, colleges and
other professional theatres because it definitely 'is of that quality. So
I'm very pleased to see that the scene shop is still there. And I think
right now, as far as the plan that's before us, I think it's very viable
there. We think we can operate well in that space but I just wanted to
make sure to kind of make our position clear, my position clear as general
manager of the Dinner Theatres, as how I see the future playing out and how
this will be part of the overall, long term plan. Thank you.
Horn: Thank you. Anyone else? Commissioners questions. Comments.
Mayor.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 17
Chmiel: Yeah, I guess I have a-few as usual. I think that one of my main
concerns with this is what the participation's going to be by everybody
else within what we're going. Trying to achieve With this proposal. Some
of the things that I still have to know cost factors always'become a very
important issue to me. What is it going to cost us and what's it going to
cost the city? What's it .going to cost'everyone else and what are we going
to gain from this after a period of time? What cost is the architect going
to be? If we were to put in those specific rooms, meeting rooms within
that facility, how do we utilize those or how do we make charge backs or
what do we do with that? Are they going to be free rooms for the public to
use? Or would there be a charge back for those? And that we've not
addressed. I guess there's a lot of questions that still are unanswered. I
like the concept. I think it improved the area considerably but there's
still a lot of unanswered or a lot of answers that are not ~nswered and
whether the hotel goes through with the 20 or 28 rooms or if they plan on
putting in a facility of a restaurant that was discussed before. I think
I'd like to see all this right down the line.. Know exactly where we're
coming from. In using the center in itself, how many people would this
accommodate? What sizes are we going to have? How many people will fit in
these facilities? I'd like to see what the dollar investment is that
according to numbers as well. So I guess there's quite a few things I'd
like to find out before I go through that particular process.
Horn: Jim, questions?
Bohn: My questions are pretty'much the same as Don. And also, in the
community center, would it be geared towards adults? Children?
Chmiel: Combination.
Bohn: Combination.
Ashworth: There was a key point that I didn't hear addressed. We have
shown a community center and we've-done that because we, as Fred eluded to-
in his presentation, it's difficult to bring people back into this area. It
has to be a destination type of... So we're also saying, this is a Phase
2. I don't know if that means 3, 4, $ years from now but it's somewhere in
the future. If given that future timeframe it can be shown that this can
work as retail, we could very easily reconsider that dec'ision as to the
best location for that community center or should it be somewhere else. I
think we've said all the way through that any form of a community center,
if it were built in downtown., would have to occur after there was some
other facilities built adjacent or along with our schools. Or more
specifically the school that they're talking about right now with School
District #112. I~ that facility has the gyms, probably a pool, that
facility truly can be designated as a youth or young adult type of a
facility. That would give you the opportunity and again you're talking 3,
4, probably 5 year period of time to move ahead with this type of facility
as an adult facility. If the other did not go through, this could
accommodate both and you could do the restrooms that were adult and you
also had the youth along with it. But that's kind of a, that's a question
that's difficult to answer not knowing what the future may bring.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 18
Horn: I think the good thing about this concept is that it is staged. If
we haven't learned anything else in terms of this redevelopment process, I
hope we've learned that we have to stage these things because we're not
going to get the whole at once. The other thing that's exciting about this
concept is it looks like it does accomplish something that could be
visually attractive in an area that's very difficult to provide that. Plus
provide many of the community services that I think we all recognize that
we at least at some point are going to need. So I guess I'm really
encouraged by the overall concept and obviously, in my mind this is a
concept at this point. I don't expect to know who's going to be in what
space or the restaurants going to be here or here at this point but ! think
the overall look is good and it makes sense. Now it's Just a matter of, in
my mind, the next step is taking the concept out 'to the business people and
saying okay, now what are you going to put in this space to make this
concept work or do we have enough interest in this space to make the
concept work. As a general concept, I think it's good.
Ashworth: One of the things we needed to do was to define'some of the.
costs but without really knowing which plan we're kind of dealing with, it
was difficult to determine those costs and then as, you're correct.. Once
those costs are known, as the Mayor had suggested, going back and saying,
who is paying for these meeting rooms? What allocations are being made?
Is this being looked at totally city? Totally private? How do those sort
out? We are in an initial stage. You may reject it at any.one of the next.
stages but at least we've got something to start working with.
Horn: Yes Clayton.
Clayton Johnson: Maybe if I could Just try to respond to a couple of
questions. One is that, let me clarify the meeting room issue. We would
fully intend to provide meeting rooms within the hotel facility. We would
be looking to the public facilities for the larger meeting space on
occasion but we would be providing our own meeting rooms in our own
facility. In regards to what we can commit to, we are very anxious to
proceed with the financing of the hotel expansion so what we have done in
the interim is we're going forward on two fronts. We're going to go
forward just trying to finance the hotel expansion~only, the 28 rooms. And
we're also going to go forward with a plan to finance the hotel expansion
with the restaurant but if Jim and his organization can provide a
-
restaurant in an existing facility that compliments his, we are not anxious
to make an investment in a restaurant. If John Dorek and the current
Filly's facility is a restaurant of a different type could be provided and
is accessible to our hotel, we would not be interested in duplicating. So
I guess what we're here tonight to tell you that we can deliver is we will
deliver the private development on the hotel expansion.- The Bloomberg
Companies will deliver on the upgrade of the retail facilities on the front
and I hear Jim saying that to whatever extent he's able to commit at this
time, he's certainly interested in working and providing the restaurant
facility. Brad has had preliminary conversations with the Theatre people
to deliver the Theatre site and I think that's kind of the commitment that
the private sector is ready to make a.nd very anxious to proceed on at least
part of this and I think the direction we're looking from you is what is
the general direction? What's going to happen back there and then we'll-
take it from there. Scene shop. We're able to do if the scene shop, if
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 19
the decision is to run the road through there and again, if Jim's
organization is willing, we will deliver a new scene shop that they can
occupy to whatever design they would come up with.
Horn: Thanks. Any other comments or' response?
Chmiel: Just one other. In talking about the scene shop. With Merlyn's
moving out from that particular area, is there something else that's going
to go into there?
Clayton Johnson: Retail...
Chmiel: I was thinking that has the space-in there, I'm not sure it would
accommodate the needs for a scene shop or not but that's another thing I
just thought about.
Horn: Comments or questions? Do you need any further action from us on
this or general?
Ashworth: The instructions from the last time were to prepare the cost
estimates and bring those back and'again it was only because of'some of the
changes in the business community. I don't need any additional action if !
can make the assumption that we're still proceeding under the guidelines
that you gave us from the last meeting. The only change would be, we would
be developing those around this concept. Correct?
Horn: I think that's the consensus. Okay, let's move on. Excellent
proposal.
UPDATE ON THE PROPOSED T~RGI~T DEVE[LOPNENT.
Ashworth: The report that I prepared on this item took into account some
of the newspaper articles that have appea-red and ! had a problem with those
in that the HRA has never really gone out and tried to entice a particular
business into the community and I think we've made. What's the word I'm
looking for? The only exception there would be with the grocery business
and I think that that was really more g~ocery store than a particular
store. We have tried to respond to each request for development in terms
of where does that development. How can that development best fit into the
development plans for our city? And I guess I look at the decision by the
bank and I know that they had looked at a number of sites when they had
originally considered in building the Chanhassen State Bank and we, meaning
the.HRA, staff and the Methune's sat down and kind of looked through
things. We were in the infancy stage in our downtown and felt that the
bank being located out on the highway, which I think was really their first
desire, would not do that much for our plans for trying to redevelop the
downtown. Target has been no different. We did not go out and try to
entice Target into the community. We have simply in the previous instance
as well as the current instance, solely tried to look at their market
position to come into this community in terms of what site is going to best
work for the overall plan for our city. And as part of that process, a
special meeting that the HRA, Planning Commission, City .Council conducted
in conjunction with the business community, looked into the 4 different
sites. The Legion, the Ward's, the Charlie James' and the 8urdick site.
Housing and RedeveIopment Authority
June lB, 1992 - Page 20
It was through the work of Bill Morrish at the University and our planning
staff that it appeared as though the 'best site there would be the Burdtck
site if it were carried out in a plan similar, to the Bill Morrish plan. $o
all of. our work to date has really been one of reacting to a notification
given to us by a particular developer, and I should note in here that, any
of these parcels have been zoned the way they've been zoned for 10-15 years
and so although we may feel that a grocery store of 120,000 square feet and
having certain traffic demands is really good, you can't say well we're not'
going to allow some other private development that's about the same size
and has about the same amount of traffic. We're not going to let them into
the community. You don't have those type of powers. You can add amenities
you wish. You can develop it or try-to get the development to meet your
guidelines but in terms of telling them that they can't go onto a
particular site, that becomes very difficult if the underlying zoning has
allowed that type of use for a l0 or iS'year period of time. With that the
action tonight, if we're to stay in line with kind of original timeframes
that we were looking to, would be to authorize basically two purchase
agreements and those would be kind of a simultaneous type of a closing
thing. One between the HRA and Mr. Burdick purchasing the property
necessary for the overall development. The secondary one being between the
City and Ryan where we then are reselling that property. In that process
staff is recommending that several conditions be placed as a part of the
purchase agreement to insure that some of the initial concepts that were
presented by Bill Morrish or that are symbolic in the plan that he
presented, are stated up front. Everyone knows what it is that we're
trying to achieve. They're put into writing and so that we don't end up in
a later closing timeframe or some other type of timeframe with people
saying, well I really didn't understand that we were going to be whatever.
So with that, oh and the last item on that is, ! don't know how .the HRA
wants to respond to this issue but Mr. James did. write me a letter and he
was concerned as to what was occurring. He foresaw that potentially there
may be some delays in this whole process. He's a little'disappointed that
Target did not pick his property and he feels as though there's a number of
reasons that, whether it be the HRA, Council, Planning Commission, but the
community should have picked his...references that had occurred before and
if those no longer are really valid in terms of new land uses as'they would
be represented by the new plat. ! prepared a response to him kind of
addressing each of the conceTn areas and I don't know if the Commission
wishes to discuss each of those or wishes to in some way concur
disconcur with kind of the position I sent back to him.
Horn: I guess I only have one question. Did Roger or somebody review the
recommendation?
Ashworth: He drafted them.
Hot n: 0 kay.
Ashworth: We met with the City Attorney, the City Engineer, C~ty Planner,
myself, Todd and also Hr. Johnson who had prepared a list of conditions as
he felt on the private side and went through those with Roger and what you
have in front of you were drafted by the Attorney.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority.
June 18, 1992 - Page 21
Horn: I didn't find any conflict as I read through them with any of the
recommendations. Just wanted to make sure they were reviewed.
Ashworth: I should note that some of the things that are just standard in
your development contracts. I'm trying to think of, oh. That the
applicant must meet all the existing ordinance requirements as to setback
and all the rest. That's not there. That's not in these because it's just
a standard condition. It's something that basically is assumed. These
were all out of the ordinary type of conditions.
Horn: Ouestions by the commissioners? Don.
Chmiel: I just want to make one comment on one of the concerns that Mr.
3ames had. In his letter it indicated that Target absolve the Code
requirements on the 8urdick parcel. James would be reasonable to expect to
receive similar waivers in the course of developing our property. I don't
think any Code requirements are going to be absolved in any manner, shape
or form and I just wanted to point that out.
Horn: Jim, did you have any comments or questions?
Sohn: No.
Horn: Is someone ready to move on staff's recommendation?
8ohn: I'll make a motion we move on staff's recommendation.
Horn: Is there a second to that motion?
Chmiel: I'll second that.
Horn: Further discussion. Yes.
Vince Driesen: Good evening members of the Commission. My name is'Vince
Driesen. I represent Ryan Construction and Just briefly wanted to say that
generally speaking Ryan Construction has been working with the land owners,
the Burdick's, their broker, Lotus Realty, staff and Target. We're
generally in agreement with the direction that things are moving in. There
are a few specific details, some which are mentioned in this document. The
staff report that are yet to be worked out from our perspective but we
don't see any problem in getting through that. Generally those are small
site plan details that we see as we get a little bit further along in this
process.
Horn: I would think that most of those will be resolved in negotiation of
the purchase agreements which is what we're authorizing them to start
preparing.
Vince Driesen: Additionally, we have a representative from Target tonight.
I think he'd like to just also carry the flag on behalf of Target for you
tonight.
Horn: We do have a motion on the floor.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 22
Chmiel: Any discussions after a motion's bee~ made, I'd like to hear the
discussion.
Horn: Okay. Yes, the representative from Target like to say a few words?
Jim Taylerson: Mr. Chairman, my name is Jim Taylerson. I represent'
Target's real estate group in this manner and I just wanted, I won't take
much of your time. I know that we're anxious, all of us to get out of here
this evening but I would just like to reassure the group where Target
stands on this. We have looked at this market, as you know, in the past
and it's been sort of an on again/off again. Part of that has been fueled
by the rumor mill as generally things are. But our market people have not
identified this as an area that we're giving serious consideration to and
·
our management has given us the preliminary approval· to proceed with the
entitlements, through the entitlement phase. We are expending resources
along with Ryan Construction to go through that and I just wanted .to leave
with the Commission the fact that one positive. Now maybe you can get that
warm fuzzy feeling as they call it, that Target is indeed giving serious
consideration to Chanhassen. Thank you.
Horn: Thank you. Don, did you have other discussion before we?
Chmiel: Yeah, I guess the only other thing that I wanted to just comment
on real quick was that making sure that that accessibility·to and from at
least Kerber to CR 17 as we have reviewed in some of these plans that we've
got, that that be carried through with that 4 lane and possibly maybe a
little bit more as we get to CR 17 with right and left hand turns. In
other words, not just 4 lane. Maybe it has to be 6 or maybe 8. I don't
know but that's something I think we're going to finalize with that. The
second thing was basically the building and the aesthetics that we're
looking for within that facility.
Horn: Anything else? Further discussion.
Bohn moved, Chmtel seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment ~uthortty
authorize the City Attorney's office to=
- Prepare a purchase agreement between the HRA and Mr. 8urdtck including
the attached conditions; and
- Prepare a purchase agreement between the HRA and Ryan Construction with
the attached conditions; and
- Authorize Initiation of Negotiations with Charlie James.
All voted tn favor and the motion carried.
Horn: You're authorized to proceed with those purchase agreements.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF' THE HI GiHI4RY 5 CORRIDOR CONTFL~CT,.
Ashworth: This is, as I mentioned to Mayor Chmiel the day before, maybe
last week. I said, the HRA agenda for this next week is really a powerful
one. We've seen 3, 4 items so .far this evening that have been major issues
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 23
in and of themself. This one here is right up in with all the rest of
them. The toughest part about this evening is that tonight you're starting '
to see some real dollars as they're being laid out in terms of whether or
·
not this dream of being able to build a community across the corridor can
become a reality. As I noted in my cover memorandum, I see this as
covering two tracks and I think the first track is well underway. It
involves our planning staff, Barton-Aschman and Camiros wherein the overlay
district is, will be prepared which will govern each of the uses along'the
highway. It will determine whether or not buildings should, face. the front
or parking lots to the rear. Areas where we want buildings closer.to the
road versus further away. Frontage roads and how some of those would take
and come closer again to the roadway versus moving away.. The frontage road
as it deals with the south portion of TH 5 is very doable.locally. I don't
know at this point in time whether those will be built as 100~ special
assessment back to developers. Whether'portions of those costs will be
paid by tax increment or dedication requirements but in any case,
combinations thereof probably will allow us to build that section of
roadway to control that development. And again that's all Tract 1. Tract
2 is really our attempt to go out after these new Federal Administration
dollars that represent a major change in the Federal legislation that has
not been changed since the days of Etsenhower, since the original freeway
construction bills were put forward by Eisenhower back during those
timeframes. John Mullin is here this evening with Barton Aschman to
explain what some of those are. The emphasis in my report though is, I
really think that it's important. We're not going to be able to build the
north frontage road without some external help. We'll not be able to
sustain an assessment against Eckankar, plug your ears Peter, because there
won't be a benefit. The park fees that are, the road section as it would
go out by the driving range, actually takes the entire parcel. The swath
of green that's proposed along the front to ensure that you maintain this
green image as you come through Chanhassen. I don't know if that's going
to be 150 feet, 200 feet but it will include the pedestrian corridor
through it. There's no benefit back to abutting property owners from that
type of construction. Both John and I, and this is in meeting with Bill'
Crawford, feel that we have a good chance to go out after these dollars.
We're playing a gamble. It's a risk. You're throwing the dice you might
say. In doing that and knowing that $100,000,00 is at stake, the important
thing is how do we minimize that risk? How do we go out after those
dollars and try to measure each point along the expenditure path to ensure.
that if after $5,000.00 or $10,000.00, is there a way in which we can take'
and say, it's too late. Let's pull the plug. We're not going to get the
dollars. The position that we're presenting is one of, and again we think
we have the State's agreement. Instead of letting Chanhassen be the one
who's trying to chase these dollars, let it be the State of Minnesota. Do
enough work on this application so that literally the State can sign off
and actually become the applicant. Once they have made the determination
that this is a State project that they're going out after the dollars on.
I think we can feel far more comfortable that in fact we'll get those
dollars since they're one of the primary people who determines who then in
fact gets the dollars. So it seems only logical to me that they would take
care of themselves. The other par. t though that is the reason that they
would carry out that endorsement is there simply are not enough, state
dollars available to match the total amount of Federal dollars that will
come into the State. So if you look at the total Federal dollars that'wtll
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 24
be available under the new Bill,. 20~ of those having to be funded by the
State matched. There's only so many. State dollars. If, and now ~ere is
the next part. A commitment back on the City's part. Yes, we:re willing
to take and make a commitment to those kind of dollars but if you look at
it, we've got the larger tax increment district. The McGlynn district is
doing very well. This HRA does not really look at those dollars. Those go
back to City Council. It's highly .likely that the Opus parcel, the parcel
that lies between CR 117 and TH 41 will come in at some point and will in
all likelihood be a tax increment district. A division, a three way split
of the overall local commitment which I'm looking to be .approximately 20~.
of potentially $4 to $6 million. $1.62 million divided by basically the 3
agencies. HRA, TID #3 and TID #4 which .is yet to be created. I think I've
rambled long enough. With that, oh. The third element of trying to reduce
our risk would be the commitment from Barton Aschman that they recognize
that there will be major dollare associated to them if this goes through.
I mean a $4 to $6 million contract would be very nice and I know t'hey have
some very large contracts but I'm sure .this one would be welcomed. But in
this early phase if there would be an agreement from them to basically bill
any costs at cost and to defer what might be profit. To my own mind
provides a little bit of incentive back to them to be willing to come back
here and pull the plug if it's necessary to pull the plug because they're
not making any money out of it. Might just as well come in front of you
and say, this got snagged. So and so shot it down. Whatever the case may
be. Initial approval that we would be looking for is a commitment to spend
no more than and maybe John can help me fill in the number but I guess I
was looking at $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 to prepare an initial EA and
receive State commitment that they would be the ones who would be making
the application under the Federal process. If we achieve that, we would 'be
coming back before you seeking the remainder of the commitment to complete
the EA and hopefully at that time being able to present why it is we feel
pretty certain that we're going to get the dollars. With that, John Mullin
of Barton Aschman.
John Mullin: Thank you Don. Members of the Commission, I'm John Mutlin
from Barton Aschman. The Vice President in charge of this office and Don
has sort of laid out how this all came about but I think a little more
background. This new Federal legislation referred to as IST, the
Intermotal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 is very unique.
It's not unlike legislation back in the 50's that created the Interstate
system and this is a whole new ballgame now for the highway systems. Before
we had the Interstate, primary, urban, secondary and safety projects.
Things of this sort. Now we're going, to end up with what's called-a
National Highway System which in Minnesota will eventually, will initially
be around 5,000 miles of interstate and primary roadways but within 2 years
will be cut down to somewhere between 3,200 and 3,800 miles. And then
there will be the surface, STP, Surface Transportation Planning and that
takes all of the other roadways within the State that are not considered
local streets or minor collectors and puts them all into' one pot. And out
of that pot there's a lot of enhancement monies now that they talk about
enhancements. That's pedestrian trails. That's congestion relief. That's
landscaping. That's getting Scenic and beautification monies. It's
getting historic sites. Money to address historic sites within the
transportation area. It's for billboard money and things of that and
there's certain dollars that are, like 10~ of the STP money has to go to
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 25
that kind of stuff. So I think you're in a.good position to be able to go
in and get the Federal monies. Our conversation with MnDot,.spectfically
Doug Crawford at this point, is that he sees that it would be advantageous
to the State to get this frontage road. There will be some traffic
congestion relief off of TH 5. There will be the local trips will be
removed from TH 5. During construction, it will ease construction of TH $.
However, he did state straight out that as of now there's no matching
monies so the City should be aware of that. I look at this, the plan is
something that I assume the City is committed to. They're going to pursue
it regardless of whether they get Federal money or not 'but this is an
opportunity to pick up 80% of the funding, construction funding through
Federal monies. So based on that, if you have any questions, I would be
glad to answer them.
Horn: I don't. Do you have any questions Don?
Chmiel: No, I guess I don't. At this time I do have a couple questions of
Don. Maybe you can answer these. I think our first concern is getting a
road to Lake Ann Park number one on the north side. And ! think that, as
said, that's our first concern. Have we looked at this so-we don't really
jeopardize either Barton Aschman or the City in looking at this in stages
first before we, and maybe proceed with what we're doing right now? I
guess I don't want to see us as a City get stuck with those dollars nor do
I want to see Barton Aschman get stuck with it. I guess the first thing I
talked about what's our first concern. Our first concern, is getting the
road over to Lake Ann Park. I think that's number one. From that point on
we can do this in stages maybe. ! don't know. Or proceed with the
application that we would, through MnDot, to file to the Feds to see if
those dollar appropriations were there.
Ashworth: Ne looked at the staging but from a little different mechanism
and that is, stage how many dollars were going to be committed at any one
point in time. The only reason we did that was simply recognizing the
Federal legislation itself. One of the biggest factors that we're going to
be able to use in our application is the section that deals with attempting
to reduce congestion associated with highway construction. If the north
frontage road is in place, and from what John has said. Dave. Listening
to Bill. Crawford. If that entire roadway can in fact be constructed in
place so that the entire TH 5 traffic can be diverted over to. that frontage
road, that means the contractor can move in there and do the entire roadway
instead of the jockeying around type of thing that occurred in Eden
Prairie. That type of construction can add 1 or 2 years to a project and
they're putting big time emphasis in this new Bill in terms of-
accomplishing that type of thing. They're putting dollars in ensuring that
any project has pedestrian as a part of it. That they build in the walkway
for both the bicyclist and the walker. The phased approach is ~ood but it
becomes difficult for us to show, put the dollars in because here is this
over the entire system that we're building. I think there's going to be a
great deal of reluctance to, I'll call' it the phase type-of approach. If
you can't show that you're doing the whole thing, 3Chh.
John Mullin: If there's commitment from MnDot. If we receive MnDot
commitment for this project, TH 5 is, I forget now. Programed for
construction fiscal year '95 or '96. The thought is, hopefully we will
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 26
escalate that. MnDot is even talking about escalating that up to '94-'95.
At least one year. If that happens and if they buy into the frontage road
concept which we will know fairly soon after pursuing it, the whole
frontage road would be built at one time. That would be the front end of
the contract. That would be our thoughts as it now stands is that it would'
go out with the TH 5 contract with the understanding that the contractor
would build a frontage road first year. First Season or whenever first and
then he would come through and have total access to the trunk highway 5...
So it would all be done at one time. I'm not sure at what phasing you're
looking for Mayor on access to Lake Ann but.
Chmiel: I guess I'm looking at that piece. To me there's a public health
and safety issue there for the residents of the city. The accessibility
going back out onto TH 5 and going back in. to that park rather than most
kids would still be able to use the standard service road. Be able to
access that park without having to be involved in the heavy traffic out on
TH 5 and I guess that's one of my concerns there and that's why. I was
saying that, if we could stage that first part and put that road in to the
park and still-proceed with what we're proposing to do to get the balance
of that service road on the north side, to-go all the way to TH 41 and I
think that's what we're looking at.
3ohn Mullin: That's correct.
Chmiel: That I think would put us in a better position and also you if the
funding didn't come through from the Fed's.
3chh Mullin: Right. One of the things that certainly could'be explored
would be to escalate that section and attempt to reach agreement with MnDot
that maybe this could be some portion of the local share for construction.
Now I can't speak for MnDot but it would seem like that would be an
appropriate.
Chmiel: There's a certain amount of benefit too for MnDot because it
provides them some addition safety too with their people working out there
and accomplishing that road. "
Ashworth: Again, I'll go back to this decongestton and also, there's 'a
term missing but it's literally kind of the slow down of the motors and
projects that take and look at how to keep main line travel moving best you
can. t4e're going to get the most attention and we do have. a concern to
ensure that we get our traffic and my family out to Lake Ann Park. But .if
the frontage road is built in it's entirety, and let's just take the one
piece from Audubon to CR 17. You can do that. Again they want to see the
whole thing but let's just talk about that one piece for a minute. Now the
necessity for the signal that is currently being shown at Park Drive,
becomes really questionable. You can do a right-in/right-out off of the
highway. If you've got the signal at Audubon and you've got the signal at
CR 17, you no longer need the one at Park Drive, especially if the frontage
road is in place. You're going to get 20 extra brownie points from the
Feds and the State if we're able to eliminate that signal. It's one less
stop for the motorist along TH 5. It's one more reason why they should
help build that frontage road condition.
Housing and Redevelopment A'uthority
3une lB, 1992 - Page 27
Chmiel: It saves them $130,000.00 as well.-
Ashworth: Well, but the Bill measures it more as you and I. As drivers
who are stopping and starting our vehicle for that signal. We really
wouldn't have had to if the frontage road on just that one piece and of
course they're looking at it as the piece from CR 17 to .TH 41 in it's
entirety were completed. I still think it's going to be difficult to get
MnDot or the Feds to kind of buy in on the one piece because we're not
taking care of then the traffic from our west end. The people that live on
the west side, how can they get into Lake Ann because they'd have to come
all the way back around.
Horn: Jim, comments?
Bohn: No.
Horn: Questions? Well, I guess my perspective ls that, we've '~een
innovative and been on the front end of a lot of these plans and taken
advantage of them. This sounds like another opportunity to do that. I
think one of the things that government generally neglects is their prime
business which is infrastructure. They get too hung up on all of the other
types of things that, they worry about safety and they look at safety in
the wrong way. They don't look at safety in moving traffic and making safe
roads. They look at safety in terms of stop signs. And it's encouraging
to me to see that the Federal government is finally recognizing what it'
takes to make a safe system. Rather than enforcement, it takes good
planning up front. And I think we should go for this. The other-thing I'd
like to say is, you know these look like dollars that you have no chance to
get. A number of years ago when ! was still on the Council, I heard many
Council members tell me that TH 101 would never be improved. That we
should forget about pianning for that. That TH 5 would never be improved.
That we should not even think about those things.- Ail it takes is
persistence and you have to keep at it and you have to organize and you can
make it happen.
Chmiel: I like that.
Ashworth: How many times did Hamilton say, 212 would never happen? Quite
worrying about planning for that.
Horn: Right. And being involved with the Highway Coalition and see what
you can do and it surprised me the funding that we got for TH 212 by
beating down the door at the Federal government. This matching fund thing
is an issue at this point. Is a serious thing but if State government
starts recognizing what the job of the government is. That it's to fix
infrastructure and highways and stop spending on all these other things
that they do, I think that will happen. I think there's a kind of a social
upheavel that's going to require that. That those matching funds will
happen and if we have this all in place when that happens, we'll be'in a
position to cash in on that. So I think we should proceed. Is there
disagreement or agreement on that by the rest of the 'Commissioners?
Chmiel: I guess I don't disagree with what you're saying basically. I
guess I like to have things pretty well firm so we know where we're going
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 28
and what we're getting before we go to do what we're going to 'do. In other
words, the money is there and th~ dollars are there, then we should
proceed. And it is like rolling a set of dice and you're not quite sure
what you're going to come up with. You may wind up with boxcars on your
second roll or your first roll or snake eyes rather than coming up with a
7. And I guess I don't like jeopardizing city dollars for that and it
becomes sort of a concern.
Horn: Well if you don't have your planning in place, you're not going to
be in a position to cash in on it when it does come and that's one of the
things we learned through the TH 5 Coalition is that you have to be
proactive on the planning process-or you get left out, and we did get left
out for many years on highway construction...
(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.)
Horn: ...do you suggest we put a cap on our motion?
Chmiel: I would say that we keep it to $10,000.00.
Horn: Would you llke to include that in your motion Jim?
Bohn: Yeah. I agree.
Horn: I would include that in my second also. If it looks like it's going
to run over that, maybe it needs to come back to us. Further discussion?
Bohn moved, Horn seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority
approve the Env[ronmental Assessment (EA) Contract ~[th Barton Aschman not
to exceed $10,000.OO. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Gerhardt: Hr. Chairman?
Horn: Yes.
Gerhardt: A second note on this item is, Paul's looking for one HRA member
to sit on the Highway 5 Corridor Coalition. Study Commission and you need
HRA to appoint one member to that.
Bohn: I thought I was on that.
Horn: I thought you and Charlie and Don. All three of you were on that
weren't you? Is this a different group?
Chmiel: I sit on too many.
Horn: Would you like a motion that we're.going to appoint Jim from the HRA
and 'Don will have other opportunities.
Chmiel:
Horn:
Yes, I'il have other opportunities.
Okay, we'll elect Jim as our representative.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
June 18, 1992 - Page 29
Gerhardt: I thought there was a group. Is this different? I thought
there was already a group out there that was meeting.
Chmiel: There is basically and that's what I thought. Do you have
somebody from Public Safety?
Ashworth: Well, they had an initial study thing. I think theY're trying
to expand it at this point in time.
Horn: We had 3 members of the HRA.
Chmiel: You've got too many studies going, that's t~e problem.
Horn: It sounds like you can just keep the same group going.
Chmiel: Yeah, I would think so. I agree with that.
Ashworth: This one is going to, it will be expanded. I know they have
like 6 citizens at large and it more closely parallels the Water Surface.
think we had an initial kind of committee that was doing some of the
initial work and now they're looking to an expanded, ongoing type of a
commission.
Horn: Okay.
Brad 3ohnson: Can I just say something?
HoT n: Yes.
Brad 3ohnson: I'm kind of in support of this corridor thing but when you
mentioned the interchange at Park and Lake Ann Park... Everytime I run on
out there, I take a left turn going out of Lake Ann, I literally know, it's
just hairy. The last time I was there a neighbor went out first. Somebody
didn't see him coming and the guy skidded all the waY. It was just lucky
nobody was coming down the other side of the road. All the way across the-
road and almost into the other side and missed my neighbor who was right by
me trying to get out of there...and if you could accelerate in some way,
the idea as Don has. Going from CR 17 to Audubon...because we're going to
end up losing a couple of guys there...
Chmiel: Yeah, and I don't disagree with you. I agree.
Brad Johnson: That's a real problem and you got to have to go out there to
get out of there. The problem is, they're coming out of there at 6:00 and
they're coming in at 6:00 and that's exactly traffic rush going home on
TH 5.
Chmiel: Yeah, I fully agree with you Brad. I've been out to the park
about three different times now and checking some of the construction
activities that we've got going there and I had a little difficulty each
time I get there because traffic flow east and west is just going and you
really have to be cautious.
Brad 3ohnson: ...it's just scares the living daylights out of me.
Housing and RedeveIopment Authority
Sune lB, 1992 - Page 30
Chmiel: Yeah. With this new piece that's put in, it's even worst.
Horn: Well this whole TH 5 thing with the construction is a'maJor obstacle
course. But again those kinds of issues will be done in the planning
process.
Chmiel: Maybe that could be our service road that's there right now. If
they'd put the highway a little more to the south.
Horn: Well the frontage road concept is something'I know we've long looked
at doing. I know they're expensive to put in and they take up land but
they really make your traffic patterns work. Let's move on to item number
6.
UPDATE ON THE HZGHNAY 5 AND MARKET BOULEV/~RD MONUMENTS.
Horn: I didn't see any new pictures in here Don.
Chmiel: No, I didn't either.
Ashworth: I would have liked to, we were trying to get the ad in the local
newspaper trying to get input from citizens so that hypothetically we could
have something on this agenda. You know I go out and I watch the
construction associated with the Americana Bank and... If we're going to
do something, we should be out there now. This schedule basically says
that we'll have something back in front of you. We'll have' ran the ad now
twice. We'll have any updates to you by then. But we're still in a
position 'and right now I guess I'm looking like in November-December.
construction if something is going to .be constructed. It would occur in
that timeframe and that would put us into a position then of doing' the
planting portion of it in the spring of '93 and still keep us well ahead of
or let's say in line with the construction schedule for the bank. $o we'll
have to see who comes forward in the next 2 ~eeks.
Horn': What's our contingency plan if this doesn't get a result?
Ashworth: I checked with Barton Aschman as to can we do the wall condition
and even plantings at this point in time knowing that there may be a larger
structure behind it at some point in time? Basically they said that's kind
of like putting the plantings around the foundation for your house before
you build the house. You know you're going to lose eveything. If., as I
see it, the contingency plan would say, well the only thing we'll be doing
is the wall and plantings. If you get a chance, take a look at that. I
stopped there the other night. It is way down there. I think even with
the wall condition, you're not going to see very much. I really think that
you should look to something with some mass if you're going to have people
see it at all. Take a look yourself. 3ust stop there and look out-and see
what might fit.
Horn: Well I hope we get something that's a little more exciting than
we've seen so far. Okay, let's move on to approval of the bills.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
3une 18, 1992 - Page 31
APPROVAL OF kILLS.
Chmiel: Don, what was our dollar allocation that we had for the University
of Minnesota for Highway Corridor Study? How many dollars was that?
Ashworth: $15,000.00.
Chmiel: We're within the budget?
Horn: Sounds like just as much as what we would look at to get the whole
thing done.
Chmiel: Okay. I'd move it.
8ohn: Second.
Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Bills for the Housing and
Redevelopment Authority. All voted in favor and'the motion carried.
Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and
the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Doo Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim