1992 09 24CH~NHASSEN HOUS[NG AND
REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETZNG
SEPTEMBER 24, 1992
Chairman Horn called the meeting to order at 5:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Don Chmiel, Tom Workman, Charlie Robbing
and Jim Bohn
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; and Todd Gerhardt-,
Asst. Executive Director ,
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Workman moved, Chmiel seconded to .approve the
Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated August
20, 1992 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
CONSIDER APPROVAL OF CONSTRUCTION MAN~vGER FOR THE BOWLING CENTER/
CONFERENCE CENTER PROJECT,
This item was tabled.
UPDATE ON HIGHWAY 5 AND Ft4RKET. BOULEVARD ENTRY MOUNTS.
Horn: I think your explanation was pretty'self explanatory. Did anybody
have a problem or see any differences or come up with any new ideas'than
we directed last time?
Chmiel: The only concern I have is that Jeff I think really has the full
handle on it and he and Don w~re going to have some discussion. I don't
know if that has taken place as yet, but I would llke to make sure that
prior to the final development of this edifice, that we make sure that he
looks at the design prior to any.submittal for contract.
Ashworth: ...2 or 3 times on the wall.
Gerhardt: I think that the best decision ever in getting Jeff involved
in this project. He has taken this to a level of detail that, it's kind
of unbelieveable. I mean he has looked at this thing so closely. He is
getting down to the quarter of an inch. We've scheduled a meeting for
next Tuesday between Barton-Aschman to work out what I'm going to say are
the very details of what 3elf would like to see this project accomplish.
It is not changing the concept that you have in front of you with the
exception of maybe making that leaf proportionately more realistic to a
leaf design and changing maybe the size of the leaves or what I'll call
are the olive branches coming down from'that. Basically the concept, the
lettering. The brick layout is going to change a little bit. 3elf feels
that if this is a pattern, he wants to see more of a random selection of
placement of the brick. And this has got a pattern that doesn't relate
to anything in Chanhassen. His example was the gazebo walls on each
side. That that was more of a random pattern. He had slides and
pictures that he's gone out and-taken. He's dedicated a lot of time on
this project and I think it's, his ideas and the detail that he's
discussed regarding this is unbelieveable. I think you're going to be
real happy with the final project. It's got that much of a personal
touch to it.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 2
Horn: I think all we really need to do this evening is to confirm our
previous approval on this, unless something has changed.
Workman: So moved.
Horn: We don't even need to make a motion unies= there'= new input.
Workman: Motion withdrawn.
Horn: I'm glad to see that Jeff is spending so much time on it and I'm
sure he'll do a good job on it.
Bohn: Are they going to be able tO start on that this year?
Gerhardt: We hope so. We're planning this for winter. If the snow
stays away, I think we can still get on it yet.
Horn: Okay. Anything else on that item?
UPDATE ON TARGET
Gerhardt: An update on Target. This could be done every 5 minutes of
the day I think. I guess first of all I'd like to highlight. This is
going to City Council this coming Monday 'for site plan approval, and
they're also asking for a grading permit. With that, it's going to be
difficult for them to get on site to start grading until certain things
are agreed to...repurchase agreement back with you. They're.going to be
taking some of the dirt and soil corrections with roadway bases,
alignment of roads. This meeting Monday night will really lay the ground
work to finalize the purchase agreement with'the HRA. The repurchase
agreement. Entering into a redevelopment contract with the HRA. Working
out details with purchase of the outiots from Ryan. From the HRA to
Ryan. Monday's meeting will really lay the ground work for all this
stuff to occur. One of the things that I'm concerned about is the
architectural style of the building. I included in your packet the
renderings, the layout of, the conceptual layout for the outlot.
Horn: Do you have a colored or a larger view of that you could show us?
Gerhardt: Yeah. I laid it out upstairs.
Horn: I have a little trouble just visualizing this. One of the
concerns that staff has was this big blank wall as you drive down along
West 78th Street. And we worked With them a lot and pushed them and
hammered on them to try to do something to break that massive wall up.
You're not going to see a wall. The grade difference is one and you can
see that in one context in there, as you drive along there...6 foot'
retaining wall. A lot of this wall will be hid as you're driving down
the street. But we still wanted to break up...farther west there, you're
going to see more of a wall. That's where we had them come in with these
elements here protrude out. These things will be backlit in this area.
It will be lit at night and sort of look like store windows :to some '
extent without windows. They Just broke up a plain wall and gave some
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 3
shadowing effects...
RobbinG: ~hy can't they extend that the rest of the building? I mean
the way it's shown, it looks like it stops or is that just parking or
what have we got here?
Gerhardt: You can see in that one picture a lot of this you won't even
see because of the grade. This is where the retaining wall.
RobbinG: Yeah, I know that but just because you will see part of it
though.
Horn: This is a different scale here than what he's got. This is your
view?
Gerhardt: Right.
Horn: Well see now these are equally spaced' and on yours they're ail
scrunched to the side.
RobbinG: That's why I was asking the question on that one because it's
not shown that way.
Chmiel: It's moved over a little more.- A little bit of difference.'.
RobbinG: The one I can see on our drawing, but not on that one because
one of them is.
Horn: Right, our's looks better.
Gerhardt: ...I'll find out which one of these is right. If that's
right, you prefer more of a proportioned one.
Bohn: Not necessarily. Not if you don't see the back part of it. That
end part.
Gerhardt: Well this is still all the wall on the north side of the
building.
Bohn: That's the north side of the building?
Gerhardt: This is as you drive along Nest 78th street.
RobbinG: And also you do not put firs or trees or landscaping above and
beyond the wall? If the wall is there okay. Then back of the wall on
the south side you have trees back of that.
Gerhardt: On the south side of the building?
RobbinG: No. North side of the building. South side of the wall.
Between the structure and the.
Gerhardt: Parking lot?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24. 1992 - Page 4
Robbins: Yeah, parking lot...trees in there.
Bohn: Is there trees and shurbs there? I hope there is.
Robbins: Well, that's ~ot the way it's shown though.
Councilman Mason: The landscaping along West 78th Street I personally
have a lot of trouble with. That's an issue that I...
Robbins: Especially on the south side.
Councilman Mason: Yes.
Robbins: Yeah.
Councilman Mason: The view, the pictures that we saw, the colored
drawings looked kind of like a blank Wall.
Robbins: That's the way it appears to me. That's why I asked the
question.
Councilman Mason: Yeah, and I mentioned at the Planning Commission
meeting and I don't know if...
Horn: Well we're not sure what we've got because what we're seeing here
and what we're looking at there are totally different-
Gerhardt: You can add the trees between the parking lot and that but
from a view from West 78th Street...
Councilman Mason: Right, but trees mature in what, 20 years?
Robbins: Let's put in mature trees now. Mature fir trees are...firs are
going to cost you a couple hundred dollars a piece.
Councilman Wing: Don,-another question I have, Clark if I could comment
on. This is one of the biggest projects in the city. One of the largest
buildings. One of the largest retail going in with some of the most
complexities of traffic and conflict and...why 'are we basing' this entire
project on one little piece of paper with some sketch that some artist
has made look good. Go buy some stained glass windows...sketch like that
and see what you get. How do these plans come in...and not have a
picture with computer imaging. It's in. It's here today... I don't
know why we keep looking at these little sketches for this multi-million
dollar project when they can come, out and take a picture of the thing.
Draw the building in and start putting in trees and...computer imagery.
I don't know why...
Horn: Nell this isn't what they plan to present to the City Council is
it?
Gerhardt: This came right out of their packet.
Horn: This is the whole thing?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 5
Gerhardt: Yes.
RobbinG= I think in fairness to.
Horn: I thought we weren't seeing the whole thing that you guys get.
Gerhardt: They get some boards that are colored.
Councilman Mason: It's a bigger picture but it's the same thing.
RobbinG: We spent about 3 years in ali fairness to the'development of
Market Square. We spent several years of that requiring them to do some
hoop jumping and getting a lot of different renderings or drawings.
mean we did go through that a couple different times to get'different
drawings. And yet we're going to go with a one shot deal here. I think
we'd want to exercise the same caution to them as we. are to here really.
Or to here as we are to them.
Gerhardt: In their defense, we've seen 5 different site plans already.
I have 5 different site plans in my office.
RobbinG: Of what?
Gerhardt: From the changes that they've made from the start, site plan
changes. I mean this is number $. They added the things to the
building. Before they didn't have it. Before we got a few trees in the
parking lot where they didn't have any trees in the parking. I mean We
worked with a very clean box 'building and we've built it to what you've
got here so far. I mean this is how they do this.
Horn: So you can't tell, it's hard to tell on here.
Robbins: No, but we asked the bank to do a lot of different drawings.
We did with Market Square. The hotel and a few others. Why can't we ask
them to give us the courtesy?
Horn: I don't think we had to ask the bank. They just gave them to us.
RobbinG: Well whatever but, why can't 'we end up with comparable plans so
we see basically what we're working with 'here.
Horn: Is this this green metal stuff again? How did that get in there?
I don't like that. Never have. I don't know how it snuck in in the
first place. How did we get that?
Bohn: It matches Market Square.
Horn: Well I know but just because we did it once doesn't mean we have
to do it on everything. What's wrong with shingles? Whatever happened
to shingles?
Gerhardt: Well I tried to give them my' concept and that wasn't good
enough. So this is their modeI that they've been buiIding in Chicago.
Housing and RedeveIopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 6
And they're making tweaks to it as we, the Planning Commission recommend
so basically the concept you have in front of you is what the Planning
Commission has approved with the exception, of the walkway that goes down
the middle of the parking lot. And they are adamant about not having
that parkway go down the middle of the parking lot. What that does is it
now puts you back into the negotiating arena with them. You eliminate
the sidewalk down the building and maybe we can get you shingles or
they've shown some concepts over to Don on a walkway. Putting more
landscaping along West 78th Street. Adding more green along West 7$th
Street. And in lieu of having to put that sidewalk down the middle of
their parking lot.
Horn: Which group has the authority for architectural fendings? Is that
the Council? Is that the Planning Commission or is that us? Or do we
all? Or how, it's not clear to me how that works. I always get, the way
it works out is well somebody else got to decide that.
Gerhardt: And staff has got thrown around in the middle~. When you guys
have asked for certain changes to architectural style, then the Planni'ng
Commission feels that you're getting into their arena and making changes
and they don't have any say in it. The approach that we've been taking
now is to go through Planning Commission, City Council, keeping you
appraised of, that's what I'm doing tonight, of the styles that the
Planning Commission has approved. -'
Horn: So the Planning Commission is the one that approves these green
tin roofs?
Gerhardt: Yes. They approved 'all the sites. They approved the bank.
They approved Market Square.
Horn: I'll have to get on the Planning Commission I guess.
Chmtel: Can I ask a question?
Horn: Yes.
Chmiel: Todd, in the overall proposal that Target has provided tO us, is
there any discussion with them or any indication that they might have had
that there may be, or there could be two entrances and exits into that
building? In other words, giving the customer and providing the customer
that opportunity if they're going into their Target store for just one
specific thing they can go in one door. Go close to that product. Get
that product that they want'and go right back out. Give them the
accessibility to the parking lot in itself rather than having a long
distance walk from one point to the other. In other words, having two
entrances going in and lining up their, and I'm not trying to change
their design from the inside because I don't know a damn thing about it
but I'm just thinking, could that be of a benefit to make that building
look a little better aesthetically by having that?
Gerhardt: It's real difficult to do with this site. With Highway 5.and
grades and the ponding needed on one side and the depth that you have
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 7
between the building and West 78th Street. Because they want to
associate their parking with those entrances. People are going to take
the shortest path. They're going .to take the stall closest to the door
and if you can't, if you put an entrance on what I'll say is the south
side of the building where there's not that much parking as it's laid out
here, people won't use that entrance.
Chmiel: No, I mean on the front.' The front on 7$th Street where it
wouId be having one to the east and one to the west of that building.
Gerhardt: They do have buildings with two entrances and again they like
to have an equal amount of-parking on both sides of those from the
designs that we've seen. In this case they don't have that parking
equalization so no, we haven't asked them for an additional access on
what I'll say is the north side and I don't know if you would. It would
change the interior layout of their building.
Chmiel: That's what I'm saying. I don't know it would e'~fect them on
the inside but look at it from the outside, it would give the balance of
that building of having those two on each end. And then having some of
this in the center portion.' To design it to make it look a little
different.
Clayton Johnson: They do do two entrances on their Greatiand but this is
not a.
Gerhardt: This is their traditional store.
Chmiel: I know, yeah.
Clayton Johnson: But on the Sreatland they do have two-entrances.
Chmiel: Okay. I haven't been to a Greatland so I can't say.
Bohn: Where's this sidewalk going down the center? You talk about a
sidewalk sort of like it going down the center.
Gerhardt: ...they gave us some of the 5 that they had one...said they
wouldn't accept it.
Councilman Mason: The Planning Commission wanted'a sidewalk going down
the middle of the parking lot to connect...
Bohn: Well we don't even have a sidewalk, in Market Square. You can't
get to Market Square by sidewalk. You can walk around the outside.
There's no way to get the sidewalk that goes to all the stores without
walking through the parking lot. In fact even the bank across 'the
street, there's no sidewalk going to that bank.
Gerhardt: I think we did have one incorporated with Market Square at one
time and...maintenance headache for these people...provided more
impervious surface coverage...but again these people are scared if
somebody's going to slip on this stuff if it's not maintained well in the
wintertime. It may just end up just throwing their snow on top of these
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 8
things...we may find this is where the pile of snow is going to be and
so, I'd rather try to negotiate trees along side of the building and
providing more greenery along West 7$th Street between their parking lot
and West 78th Street than to try to get a sidewalk down the middle of the
parking lot.
Bohn: I don't necessarily mean down the middle of a parking lot but some
way to get to the building from the sidewalk along the street.
Chmiel: They're looking at that I'm sure from a safety aspect. But in
the same token, that ~can be a problem during the winter going along as
you're saying.
Bohn: Look at safety. Safety. Walking down a sidewalk is a lot safer
than walking in a parking lot. Especially...get splashed in the
wintertime.
Chmiel: Have we ever checked to see what other cities as to the amount
of accidents that have occurred or pedestrians being hit?
Horn: I think there's more fender benders from cars in parking lots than
people.
Chmiel: Well I'm sure that's what it would be than having people hit.
Ashworth: They contend that they've had more., that this has been their
number one complaint area. In tbs wintertime, especially...people don't .
see it, literally drive, start driving right across it. An area where
vehicles park over the top of sidewalks, esp.ec!ally if they back in. The
amount of walkway area is less. You're left with a 3 or 4 foot area to
actually walk over. It's an area where people, if they do push their
carts in from this walk area, they end up doing more damage to vehicles
that are parked along there beGause the thing gets out of control or'
rolls off and hits a car. For them it's a real maintenance problem.
They would, they're open to almost anything except for 'that walkway. They
would suggest instead to move the entire site plan.
Horn: How do they feel about shingles?
Ashworth: They would move everything 15 feet to the south and they would
build a berm into this section...and then they' would agree to heavily
landscaping this to the point where you couldn't even sas the parking lot
or the building. If you put a berm in here and...the elevation
difference.
Councilman Mason: Do we know for sure that includes this?
Gerhardt: I'm not showing it but since you're a Council member you can
say okay, we'll agree to get rid of this but we want to see this over
here too.
Chmiel: West 78th Street.
Gerhardt: Right.
Housing and RedeveIopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 9
Chmiel= What problem will that do with drifting? If you put a berm
there.
Horn: It's on the south side, you won't get it there.
Chmiel: You're talking south side. You're not talking north. Okay.
Ashworth: The Planning Commission recommendation was to put a concrete
walk right down here or this one. I don't know which one it is, but
again, in winter, heavy rains, people aren't going to see the thing.
Actually it reduces the amount of impervious area and reduces the places
for trees. If you're going.to do that, you'll force them into doing
more in other areas.
Horn: Yeah, I agree.
Councilman Wing: Rs long as we're standing here Don.. Here's the road.
You're showing, this is what you want. Is this what you're going to get?
What's the status between this...and this one?
Horn: The plan has changed.
Ashworth: Yeah. The original roadway was up here to the northerly
alignment. Now it has moved down 120 feet...part of the public hearing
to authorize construction of West 78th Street .... there are actually a
number of benefits. Our acquisition cost I anticipate is going to be
significantly less because this is owned by Charlie James and of course
this is up here as well. We would look at a total...before. Now we've
got a partial. The roadway as it will continue out to Lake Ann, right
now .
Councilman Mason: I was going to say. Whe're is that going to occur?
Ashworth: Right here. In fact I can show you a little bit...
(There was discussion going on that wasn't being picked up on the tape
recording. )
Ashworth: Here's Highway 5 and here's what we'd be-'developing...CR 17.
This is the new alignment. This takes, there's far less of an S curve.
Here's the old alignment, from Market Square... The other part of that
is...
Workman: Why don't you turn it over'
Ashworth: The other benefit of moving the road, it reduces the S curve
out there...less back up from Highway 5. Those people coming back into
town. But here was another one. Now this is a Class A wetland. The
edge of that wetland is here. So you leave it up here, you get into that
wetland area with the construction. If you move it down, the
construction is going to stay outside of that wetland.
Chmiel: By moving it that much forward, what problems does that do for
stacking?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 10
Ashworth: Stacking is not a problem but what they did have to do is,
they've added a double...
Horn: Has the County reviewed this?
Amhworth: Yes.
Horn: They're okay with it?
Ashworth: Yeah. The issue the Council will face on Monday night is,
both of these owners, Charlie James. Charlie wants the median cut and
these owners want the right-in/right-out.
Workman: Is Charlie now okay with this alignment?
Ashworth: Well it's hard to tell from Charlie but.
Horn: He's okayer than he was.
Ashworth: That's what it will look like if you have the right-in/right-
out. Staff is recommending that you don't have this at all. This
disappears and the access is solely down in here. Have this disappear.
Not allow that and...Now that I have our attention. One of the reasons
you employed Strgar was to have them tell you some of 'the things that are
wrong with the downtown area and what we can do...so you go into four
lane construction starting here at Kerber and all the way back...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Bohn: ...I would still like to see a sidewal~ from that front door of
the store to the sidewalk going along the street.
Horn: Along the street.
Bohn: Yeah, so you can get from the door.
Horn: Right. Not through the middle of the parking but along the
street?
Bohn: No, no, no.
Horn: Have you got that Todd?
Gerhardt: I got it. You want trees
along, between the curb and the building on the north side. You want a
mirror image of the landscaping that's in front of you by the retaining
wal 1 and.
Horn: Some type of a break up feature such as this that goes more
symmetrical along the wall.
Gerhardt': That proportionately lines, up with the wall of the building.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 11
Bohn: Right. And a sldewalk from their front door to the sidewalk along
the street.
Horn: And I have a personal blas against tin roofs.
Gerhardt: I don't know what we're going to do with that one.
Chmiel: Yeah, keep that tin out of there.
Bohn: So if somebody's coming'down with a baby stroller, they don't have
to get out in the parking lot to get over to the front door.
Gerhardt: I need one clarification. You-see this sidewalk' here Sim.
This is a sidewalk so if I take my son and !'m going down here and go
Ii ke this.
Bohn: I don't want this thing going down the middle. I just want a
sidewalk...
Horn: Is that clear direction? Does everybody agree with that?
Bohn: We talked about that road being widened. Why didn't they make it
wider all the way down instead of just, was it Market? You're going to
widen it as far as Market Blvd. right?
Ashworth: From Laredo all the way out to CR 17. We'll take full
width... The south side would have a restriction-in front of the hotel
but we've got a plan that shows how you could take that restriction out
of there. But it would involve removing that wall and displacing a
portion of their par. king. Strgar is saying, the roadway in it's current
condition can handle the traffic putting in traffic control devices
through the year 2005.
Bohn: It's like going downtown, taking main street and going down to TH
5 by Brown. You've got two lanes of traffic and then all of a sudden you
get down across the railroad tracks and you're down to one lane because
you've got that divider in there. It's' two lanes of traffic in front of
the par king lot.
Horn: By the Dinner Theatre.
Bohn: By the Dinner Theatre but when you get down there, you've got a
turn lane instead of two lanes of traffic.
Horn: It seems to go into one for a place in-front of $orenson's
building and then it goes back out into two as it gets down to TH 101.
Why is that done like that?
Ashworth: That's a good question. In thinking about it, you're right.
Bohn: Both directions.
Horn: And they just changed it to'narrow it. There were two lanes in
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 12
there and it just changed.
Bohn= Same thing from...You come from off TH 5 and you. have two lanes
.
and all of a sudden you g9 to one. Then you get back up past the
railroad tracks and you've got two lanes again.
Chmiel: That's where your right yield.
Workman: There was supposed to be a median in there where you couldn't
really make that turn. I remember that argument with the City'Engineer.
Previous one, That there was supposed to be a median there after the
track heading north. But because of the Klingelhutz property and the
Dinner Theatre property, we removed it. So it looks wider.
Bohn: We don't want a median in there.
Workman: I know but that's why it appears wider.
Bohn: And it's two lanes wide too.
Horn: Yeah, it's actually marked that way for a stretch. It will be
interesting to see when they put the marks down where they'll go.
Councilman Wing: I guess I'm making an assumption, and I don't know if
it's correct or not but it seems like West' 78th Street is a HRA project
should change... And there's a couple of issues about that I'd like to
address. Could' I ask that the West 78th Street issue be put on a future
agenda? HRA agenda. I'd like to come and address a couple of problems I
see.
Horn: It's one thing that we've talked about'coming back to on a
repeated basis as we periodically develop this whole thing. We need to
keep a close look at the overall traffic flow. I think it's something we
need to re-address on a periodic basis as each element completes. We
have to make sure what we have there still makes sense. $o I think it's
appropriate to bring that up again. It's been a while since we've done
that. We've made some adjustments but we need to make some more.
Workman: I move that the HRA, the first HRA in January revi6it this.
Horn: You want to wait for the snow?
Chmiel: Just prior to December.
Horn: Oh I see. Alterior motives. Okay, anything else on the Target.
The other thing I think, if you can kind of send a message.back to them
before they make their presentation to the City Council, is that the HRA
was disappointed in the presentation material. The visuals.we had to
make a decision with. Just from the representation I heard from the City
Council, they would prefer to see better presentation material at their
meeting on Monday night if they can burn some weekend oil to put
something a little more presentable than this and something that's
consistent between this and this. I think would make it easier for the
city Council to deal with. Anything else?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 13
Robbing moved, Workman seconded that the Housing and RedeveIopment
Authority recommended that the foiIow/ng /tams be Iooked at further by
Target:
1. Trees between the curb'and the building on the north side.
2. A mirror image of the landscaping by the retaining wall some type of
a break up feature that goes more symmetrical that proportionately
lines up with the wall of the building.
3. The sidewalk from the front door to the sidewalk along the street.
4. The green tin roofs.
All voted /n favor and the mot/on cart/ed.
VZSZTOR PRESENTATIONS=
Horn: It seemed inappropriate to have a Visitor Presentation at 5:30
when nobody was here. I think most of the people here are already on the
agenda but if there's something that's not on the agenda that you want to
address, we'd entertain that at this point..
Clayton 3ohnson: We want to find out what happened. What was the action
taken on the construction manager?
Horn: We are getting some more reference checking and Don and Todd are
going to put together some projected costs with each of the three
approaches and we'll make a final selection next meeting.
Clayton 3ohnson: Does that mean we don't do anything again for another
30 days?
Chmiel: It sounds like it.
Horn: What, if we had somebody picked.
Clayton 3ohnson: We had a partners meeting this morning again of the
hotel and I guess we're looking for something that tells us that we
should go ahead with our plan. I was looking for one of two things.
Either some very distinct action on the bowling alley site, which I
understand hasn't happened. Or hiring the construction manager which
would allow us to proceed. Our architect was here tonight. We're still
pawing the ground. We'd like to proceed with, to a preliminary plan. We
find it very difficult to proceed to a preliminary plan not knowing
what's going on behind us.
Robbins: Clayton, just being a. little facetious, but 'how would your plan
differ depending upon the construction manager?
Clayton 3ohnson: Well I understand the construction manager is going to
develop a conceptual plan for the city's part of the project.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 14
Robbins: We're seeing all things are equal now. The cost was the same.
Construction's the same. Everything's identical. Why would your plan be
different depending upon the construction manager?
Clayton 3ohnson: I understand he's going to employ an architect and the
architect is going to take your, and develop a conceptual plan for the
city's portion of the project. $o we know what we're building next to.
Chmiel: The CM won't get the architect. The City will choose the
architect.
Clayton Johnson: I was under the impression, well that may be but I mean
can that proceed ahead of the construction manager?
Horn: I would think the prelimiDary plans could.
Ashworth: The architect knows that he is working for the construction
manager so the intent was to employ a construction manager. -Set his
recommendations as to who to interview or to, the construction manager
will be a real integral part of the selection of the architect. Yes, it
will be done by this body but hopefully based oD the strengths or
weaknesses of the construction manager, that he will look to an architect
that, number one he can work with. But number two, that can work with
him. That adds additional strengths to the strength~ that he brings to
the table.
Bohn: And we have to wait a month to make the decision of who we're
going to pick for a construction manager?
Ashworth: Well, what we could do, if you would so desire, is have a
special meeting date.
Chmiel: How long is it going to take you to pull together the
information that we requested?
Ashworth: Not over a week. The only question is, could we present it at
the meeting or would you want to take and be able to digest it for 3-4
days? If you want to have it in your hands so that we, let's say if we
did it 2 weeks from today and met early. I don't know if you'd be able
to meet like at a 5:00-5:30 type of timeframe. 'Be done in a half hour.
Robbins: Or Don, in fairness to Clayton, the difference of meeting in
one week versus two weeks to three weeks, does that cause, a problem?
Clayton Johnson: No. It's been on our agenda since March and my
credibility gets to be at stake at some point in time. They really begin
to question the city's commitment to the project. The meeting this
morning was again.
.'
Robbins: Well I think we're...in the project. I think we're saying
construction manager. I think that's the consensus here.
Clayton 3ohnson: It's just difficult for us. We can't go any further. I
mean we can't really talk about whether or not we can finance it or
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 15
whether it's not, we have to go out and raise equity until we get a
conceptual plan. We've got to get to'the plan to the point where it's,
we can get some cost estimates and so on. We really cao't, we ran 96~
last month again.
Chmiel: Nell we like to see that.
Clayton Johnson: We had 15 turn aways. I mean 15 nights with turn aways
and very honestly, what will happen is there will be a competitor in here
and that's what will happen.
Horn: So you're waiting for the approval of the architecture so he can
review your plans?
Clayton 3ohnson: No. We're waiting for a conceptual plan to come from
the city.
-
Horn: I've got the same problem that Charlie has'understanding.
Clayton Johnson: Okay. We've seen several versions of what's going to
be behind us and what we're going to hook up to. And I thought the
process was, the construction manager's hired. He retains an architect
and the architect gets the City's portion of the project far enough along
so that we can start with our architect to do a design for our part of
the project that is consistent with your plan' That' all we're trying to
do.
RobbinG: I think our plan will be consistent no matter which person we
use I think.
Clayton Johnson: Yeah, but don't we have to, but it has to happen. I
don't care who it is.
RobbinG: This isn't arguing. I'm asking, a question.
Clayton Johnson: No, I don't think it makes a difference who it is.
RobbinG: One of the three, it should conceptually come out the same way
shouldn't it?
Gerhardt: I think you both are saying the same thing. I think Clayton
wants to start today and we're going to start 2-3 weeks from now.
RobbinG: But can't he start making his project today because our's is
just determining the person that's going to back our end'of the deal
really I think, isn't it? Unless I'm missing it.
Horn: I'm having trouble understanding this too..The impression I get
from Clayton is that he's looking to the City to determine what the
architectural styling and structure is going to be so that his architect
can look at it and match their portion of it in accordingly.
Clayton Johnson: Right. We need to know where the escalator's going to
be. Is it going to empty into an area that's going to be our lobby or is
Housing and Redevelopment 4uthority
September 24, 1992 - Page 16
it going to be.
Workman: Utility room.
Clayton Johnson: Utilities or wherever.
Horn: I guess from your perspective, what stage of the process does the
architect that this construction manager gets, when is that in the
timing?
Ashworth: Again, once the architect is on board. Both of those two will
visit the site. They'll take a look at the preliminary plans that
have developed. They'll take and say, it really doesn't'make any sense
to have the escalator in this location. It should be here. They'll.go
back, come back. They're start to refine the plan and I think that's
what Clayton is saying. Give us a refined plan of what it is that the
City is going to do and then we can start matching into that. You know,
you tell us from a city perspective that the second floor elevation is
going to be at 968.2. And we can start going from there. Then we know
if we've got two steps up or three steps down.
Horn: Okay. Do you understand Why we're holding him up? Do you two
understand that? Why-we're holding him up.
Chmiel: We want to know what it's going to cost us, number one.
Ashworth: We can't give.
Chmiel: That's one of the things that we're going to find out.
Horn: No, I understand that. I'm asking.
Chmiel: Cost. We don't know that.
Clayton Johnson: Cost for what, Don?
Chmiel: The cost for constructing and going through-this process. And
that's got to be a gimme for us. We've got to know where we're going.
Same way you have to know where you're going to go with your dollars.
..
Robbins: But based on that, I don't think that should change
dramatically based on the person we use. I mean given the three we've
got, assuming we're going to pick one or-three, the plans are going to
come out the same.
8ohn: No they won't.
Robbins: Well that's not the way it was worded in here.
Horn: That's what I'm getting at.
Ashworth: The general plan, for what we want to do.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 17
Horn: Do you two understand why we're holding ~layton up? Or is it your
understanding that we are holding him up?
Ashworth: I would say that we are.
Bohn: I think we are too.
Horn: Then I asked the question earlier this evening, what are we going
to hold up by waiting one more month to decide on this. Nobody came up
with an answer that we're going to hold up Clayton for a month.
Ashworth: I Just said that no. We're delaying his ability to move
forward with the project. If we can't tell him that we're going to have
a corridor on the back side and exactly where that corridor is going to
be and the width of it, he can't really decide or have an architect look
at how they're going to rennovate Merlin's to match into something that
we don't know...
Clayton 3ohnson: If I can accept the plans that have been drawn'and if
that is what is going to be built, we'd proceed today but I'm under the
impression that that was a very, very preliminary conceptual plan and I
thought that the hiring of the construction manager and the architect was
to get the conceptual plan. to the point where all.of us would know what
our costs are. I mean we don't know what it costs to build the hotel.
You know because we don't have a set of plans.
Chmiel: You've got a pretty good handle.
Clayton 3ohnson: Oh sure we do. Oh sure. Yeah, we aren't going to
build it if it ~oesn't come within certain costs. But t'hat is the
frustration yeah.
Ashworth: And in a similar fashion, I mean we've given out cost
estimates to the HRA but that was back through Hoisington Inc.. I feel
very uncomfortable saying yeah, this is absolutely. We've got a project'
I mean what was the example that one of these firms used. Some city had
an estimate of $8 million and they brought them in and it was really
$13.5.
Chmiel: The same way with the 3usttce Center-. Carver County. $5
million and it came in at more than.
Horn: So did you kill the project?
Chmiel: No, we went ahead.
Clayton 3ohnson: Yeah, I guess that's my only concern i's that everybody
understand why the ramifications are and that.
Ashworth: And I think Clayton will be the first to admit as well,.
there's other work that is going on. I.mean the attorney is back with
them. They're putting into writing what is being acquired. What they're
responsible for and hopefully then the costs associated with that, some
of those things could fall apart too.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page i8
Clayton 3ohnson: Yeah, we've got our commitment. We've got a commitment
today from the owners that they wouId proceed under any one of two
circumstances. Either if the equity, if the financing is unable, if
we're not abIe to obtain financing from the current lender, they're going
to proceed to raise the necessary equity to do it with strictly equity.
So I mean I think the owners have made a very strong commitment but right
now we're kind of at-a standstill.
Horn: Let me ask the Commission, was everybody on the Commission, was it
your impression that if we delayed this a month it would have a
detrimental effect on the overall project?
Bohn: I knew it would deiay it.
Horn: Well, you asked the question.
Robbins: I asked the question but it was more so if we choose person A,
B or C. That was the question right there. What difference does it make
if we choose A, B or C? That was the question.
Horn: Yeah, from you asking...
Robbins: Yeah.
Horn: Well I think we ought to proceed as quickly as we can and have a.
special meeting.
Ashworth: In 2 weeks then we'll put a packet out. It would be a Week
from today. Next Friday.
Horn: Let me ask the next question. If we had two candidates instead of
three, would it speed your job up?
Ashworth: Yes. To make Todd's job easier, the action'that was taken was
to table but I think it's fair to say-that if staff went back and brought
back more detailed answers associated with Just two firms, we would meet
the intent of the commission. And I think everyone knows which .of the
two firms we're talking about.
Horn: I think that's the way we should proceed. And have a special
meeting as quickly as we can. I don't think we're that far away from
making a decision.
Chmiel: No, I don't either.
Ashworth: So 2 weeks from today with staff putting out the packet to
you, the analyzation a week from today.
Chmiel: Make up your mind one way or the other.
Horn: Right. Well we had new input, unfortunately.
Ashworth: Would you like to select a time for that while we're talking
about it?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 19
HoT n: Two wee ks.
Ashworth: ! mean like 5=30 then?
Horn: 5:30.
lilorkman: 5:30, Riv.
Horn: January 1st.
Workman: We've got enough, I came tonight ready to make a decision but
we've got enough little trains that could deals going on. It seems like
there's always this built leakage of time that adds up to 6 months. I've
seen that in the years that I've been on here just, I mean that's the
City Council. That's everybody. A gentleman talked to me after a City
Council meeting and he says, you know you guys didn't make any decisions
tonight. You know.
- .
Chmiel: Sometimes it gets that way unfortunately.
Horn: I think we could have been in a position to-make a decision
tonight. Anyhow, let's expedite that. We'll compromise. Any other
visitor presentations?
REQUEST FROM MRRKET SQURRE PARTNERSHIP TO ASSIST IN PROMOTIN~ THI~ GR~ND
OPENING OF MARKET SQUARE.
Gerhardt: Attached you'll find a request from both'Lotus Realty and
Market Square Limited Partnership for assistance in both the Grand
Opening and marketing and promoting the downtown Chanhassen. Mr.
~ohnson, Brad Johnson has requested time on the agenda tonight that he
may present their marketing plan for both the downtown and for Market
Square. I have sat through this presentation and I think it's an
excellent idea. They are not just marketing Market Square development.
They have pinpointed certain, locations in southwest quadrant of the Twin
Cities area and...billboard and other marketing needs and display areas
to show people driving by how far they are from downtown Chanhassen. And
with that type of marketing I think ail the downtown business people
benefit from that. I wobld be very hesitant to even put this on the
agenda if this was solely for the Market Square development. You see a
lot of people come in front of you asking for assistance for marketing
each individual business in this community, if that was to be that way.
But I think the approach that they are taking, they realize that it would
benefit the entire downtown and tell people how far they are from
downtown Chanhassen. You're only lO minutes from downtown. You're only
~5 minutes from downtown in certain locations. I thought it was a
benefit to all the businesses. I'd like to have Brad give a small
presentation on what they presented to some of the businesses.
Brad Johnson: Are you guys okay with that?
Horn: What's that?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 20
Brad Johnson: There's no sound back there. I don't know if I want to do
anything tonight. Have you seen the burgundy?
Chmie!: Yes.
Brad Johnson: Don't they look nice?
Workman: With the green roofs?
Brad Johnson: Sooner or later we'll hide the green roofs.
Chmiel: This is on the Subway.
·
·
Brad Johnson: Doesn't it look nice though? It will be all the way
around so that's the third color.
Bohn: That burgundy I beam that runs in front of.
Brad Johnson: That will be gone.
Bohn: I talked to the contractor. He said, no that's staying there.
That's in front of Gateway Foods. That big I beam that runs.
Brad Johnson: I haven't seen the look. Basically what you have in fro~t
of you is a proposal that we have been working on for 2 months with the
Market Square people along,with the Chamber of Commerce and the Dinner
Theatre. We made these presentations. The concept is that we need from,
strictly from the point of view from the merchants. A lot of people
don't know how to get to Chanhassen and as an example,-Pat Pappenfus does
not know how to get downtown Excelsior and she's in the Chamber. I' mean
there's a lot of people that Just don't know how to get here. And we
feel that with the addition of this particular retail, that a lot of
attention should be spent trying to make sure people' know that Highway 17-
is a way of getting to Chanhassen and vice versa. You can use TH 101
because we've got some very good streets to encourage the traffic pull
here. And it turns out that 3/4 of our total market area is in fact to
the northwest. A lot of those people should learn that they can come
down to Chanhassen and shop. Not just as Market Square but anyplace.
I've know that. for a long time because I just kind of monitor where
-.
everybody's coming from. And then we've got the Target studies and
everybody else's study and it Just's interesting to see where a large'
share of our market in fact is.. I think with our new road system coming
on, I don't know if you've been monitoring how you make turns 'but I do
and I'm starting to use Highway $ where I never used to use it and I'm
avoiding 78th which I think is good. So I don't.think we'll see as much
traffic on 78th as I anticipated because with the stop lights and
everything else, I think we're encouraging so people just need to know
how to get here. In addition to that, we've come up with a theme and I'm
using a billboard because that kind of works the best but it's about time
we had a grocery store, right? And so for the people who are on this
group and those of us who have been working on it a long time, the theme
is, it's about time. And you can say that, it's about time. That's one
way to say it. And as we get more into the Excelsior market or over into
the Glen Lake market, it's about time and we're talking about how long
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 21
does it take to get to Chanhassen from where they-live. A lot of them
don't know that. So as we do these billboards, each one will have the
time it takes to get to that particular site. Okay? So it's 3 minutes
from that corner, wherever that billboard happens to be located. The
reason we're selecting billboards is, you remember you don't have them on
Highway 5 but they are over on Highway-7 and there are merchants in our
marketplace like Bernie and the Festival and stuff like that can draw
people that use the Highway 7 corridor. For a long time the Highway 7
corridor people have not shopped Chanhassen. They just didn't believe
anything was over here.
HoT n: There wash ' t.
Brad Johnson: You're right. And there is just a concern that we spent
some time doing this, okay. So there's different ways of doing it. For
example, if the store co-op's. Now what we've set all this up to do is
these stripes are sort of co-op advertising so that Festival can say,
it's 3 minutes to Festival or whatever. And then if we can get a
billboard program put together, which means we have to buy about $
billboards. Not 10 or anything like that, then they will make available
to us one of those portable billboards. Remember Highway $ doesn't have
any billboards. And what we're recommending is that that billboard be
put down at the corner of Highway S and lOl because that's, where a lot of
our leakage is from our downtown port. You know just for temporary.
We'll call it temporary.
Horn: Which 1017
Brad 3ohnson: On Guy's parking lot. It's a very good location. A lot
of people there turn right and never come into downtown so that's a good
way. That's the highest traffic point in Carver County. Right' there.
And that would be a good point to have a board. And that one would be
designed that we could co-op and would be coming soon to downtown
Chanhassen. Okay, Market Square. Again, the concept 'is' these are boards
that we purchase. Now how all this fits together, that's one way. So
these would be, or it could say shop downtown Chanhassen. b4hatever it
is, that's how we co-op it. Co-oping means the center itself is paying
for the artwork to do the poster. And we've done all the basic stuff.
Then we're encouraging the merchants to buy space on these signs with
their names. So if a board costs $500.00 a month, we're suggesting that
there's incentive dollars which are supplied by ourselves and the HRA to
encourage people to put money up to make the program work. Are you
following me? You've got three kinds of dollars that are being spent.
One kind of dollar is being spent just to put the program together. The
program together is, there are basic elements to the program are we're
going to design. These are things that just cost' money; If anybody's
ever been in advertising, you know it just costs money to design
something so this particular one is, it's about time that would go into
like the Minneapolis Star and Tribune and then where you see those little -
squares. That's i.ndividual store advertising. So we're ~aying for the
cost of development and then the placement of the ad and the banner at
the top. You see and then each guy buys a piece. Okay., that's co-oping
it so it costs them a lot less to do it. We're putting together a, what
do you call it? A brochure. What's the insert they call? In the paper.
·
Housing and RedeveIopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 22
Horn: Flyer.
Brad Johnson: Flyer, yeah. There's a better work but I can't remember
it. That will be like this and that wlll have on the cover, the colors
will be more of the color of Market Square. You know green- No, I'm
kidding. It will be this color and gray. So it will have the colors of
Market Square but it will be a flyer that will be put together, it will
be a full size paper. Flyer. -Tabloid we call it. Full tabloid and it
will have a front cover, back cover and it will have an inside and it
will talk about what's going on at the Grand Opening. It will have
special events because the day of the Grand'Opening, which will be the
14th. That's the special. It will be a week long promotion starting
about the 5th. Right after election day. And it will run until the
14th. The reason we're doing that is because of noise. Too many people
advertising before then. So it will be information about it. Information
about the center. And then information about what's going on. You know
sort of a flyer. That will go out to about 60,000 People plus all the
people, 60,000 households plus all the people who work in Chanhassen.
See one of the problems of reaching Chanhassen people is our working
force doesn't read the paper because they don't live here. I would say
only about 10~ of the people that-work in Chanhassen live here. So they
don't. So you have to figure out how to let them know that something.
There will always be coupons, free things. Festival during their Grand
Opening...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Chmiel: I like that one part on that one you're holding in your hand.
The word downtown.
Brad 3ohnson: Yeah, we use the word downtown.
Workman: Doesn't that sound weird? Shop in downtown Chanhassen.
Brad $ohnson: The main things that we're doing are, we're using the
about time and then also we're going to target each area and tell each
area how long it takes to get into Chanhassen. And show them how to get
here. So you have a map. Peopie don't know this but this design here is
a map and each of these will tell how long it takes. You know this is a
quadrant. Like this could be Tonka Bay and it will have a time in here.
Remember the map they used for the Mega Mall that you see in the paper.
It's the same kind of idea. Ail roads lead to Chanhassen kind of thing
and we're developing. The four aspects of the program are one, the
tabloid that will go to the world twice. In addition to that, every week
Festival is sending out to 60,000 households another tabloid. Ours will
go in the paper. Their's are going by ad...so you"ll get it twice.
You're going to get a lot of stuff. 60,000 households reaches well into
Glen Lake. Ail the way to Waconia. Down to ChaskaJ Everywhere. The
next thing that we'd be doing is the billboards. We'd like to have a
billboard program and we kind of need, sort of the our money. That's the
money we're putting up for incentive plus the city money to pull off the
billboard campaign because we need to feed that. It's-a fairly expensive
thing to do but we think just getting a billboard down on, we get the
biliboard at Guy's we'lI cali it, is free if we can buy 5 other signS.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 23
And that to me is the main reason for doing this in many ways. Because
our work alone just to do a billboard is about $2,500.00 so you've got to
do more than one billboard and then Naegele gives you one free. Portable
one. We'll have as another part of the program, and probably an ad or
whatever in that Thursday Minneapolis Star and Tribune. Here we're just
trying to promote to really the market out here. You can buy into that.
In addition to that on the 14th, WCCO radio will be out here Live from
Market Square. Or wherever and we're setting that up. And then each guy
buys a part of that. So what we're doing on the WCCO radio is we'll
write the lyrics so if there's a 60 second spot, 20 seconds of it will
talk about shopping in downtown Chanhassen. Okay. And let's say it's
$500.00 for that spot. Then we'll pay $200.00 of it. And we'll get our
message. We, I mean that's Market Square and the City. That's what our
contribution would be. And then the merchant has to pay $300.00 and
they'll interview the merchant. And if you wanted to, we could have just
a general one just talking about downtown Chanhassen. If somebody wanted
to be there and be on the radio. All we're trying to do with radio and
billboards is it's called an intrusive median. You can't get away from
it. You're listening to WCCO Saturday morning or all day, you can't 1 get
away from it. If you don't listen to WCCO, you won't. That's the one
that happens to reach the most people. The other one is that a billboard
you can't avoid. The paper, all this other stuff that we mail directly,
you don't see. That's why when you do your advertising, you.put your
signs out Tom, you're everywhere in the city now I can tell. It's
intrusive. I have no choice but seeing it but if you're advertising in
the paper, I never know you're existing. I mean you're doing a good job
on your signs.
Workman: You haven't seen nothing yet.
Brad Johnson: I know but that's why i't works. So what we're asking for
then is that we have a budget anticipation of about $50,000.00, of which
$20,000.00 is just stuff to develop-it and buy the tabloid. Then we're
going to encourage people to co-op. $o what we'd do then is we have
incentive dollars that the center's putting up and we're asking you to
put up 5 each. We'll take that money and div it out to make it a good
deal to be in there. And the same thing can go for the merchants that
advertise in here. This is for them a pretty good deal because it's so
inexpensive to be piggy backing on what we're trying to accomplish.
Horn: Most of them are going to do that?
Brad 3ohnson: We've got to reach to them. I just got the work. What
we're trying to do is get the thing done and the program done and then we
reach them. They buy it and so let's say we say, okay. It will cost you
$100.00 to be in here but the city, not Just the center. Market Square
and the City need to put the incentive dollars and we'll contribute half
of the cost.
Horn: Have you presented this concept to the Chamber yet?.
Brad Johnson: I presented it to the guy who's in charge of the Chamber.
Merchant's Association and he runs McDonald's. He thought it was a great
deal. Okay, good idea.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 24
Horn: So do you think most of the merchants are behind it?
Brad 3ohnson: They may or may not. You know the merchants in this town.
Some of them don't spend money. Some don'.t, we've got merchants over in
there that don't beIieve in advertising. But the guys that we've talked
to, like the program. It just becomes such a tremendously good'buy so if
they're spending $50.00 in a week, this is a better reach for 'them than
anything that they can do that's going out to 60,000 people. Most of
them are just in the Chanhassen paper. And that's the idea. So we would
offer two, and we're talking about a relatively minor share of the
overall budget but that's the idea. And there are incentive dollars that
we can use any way we want to encourage people to advertise. And the
same incentives can be given to any merchant in town. And then we'd end
up with this billboard thing which I think is a real good idea and that
can be saying, come into downtown Chanhasmen. That's the idea, to get
people down here. Now we have not had a formal presentation to the
Chamber because the Chamber tells me that this is not a Chamber deal. It
should go to the Chamber's, what do they Call it? Merchants Retail
Committee which is what McDonald's Chairman. Gene, iyeah. He knows this
is a good deal. I mean it's a good buy. If they buy advertising. The
real difference is there are people in town, believe me, that just don't
advertise.
Horn: Everybody in the Square will be part of this?
Brad $ohnson: Oh yeah. They're contributing $20,000.00-. They'll
contribute $40,000.00 of it...Market Square is going to advertise
aggressively. We'll have a flyer that goes out once a month to
households. Every month. A lot of coupons. Lot of free deals. A lot
of, and the grocery store is really kind of interesting. The reason they
have to do that is how would you like to have you know, 20, 50,
$60,000.00 worth of fruit that spoils. Nobody comes into your store.
They have to have traffic or they're dead. And you walk into. any grocery
store and it's got the fruit looks kind of poor, that means their traffic
is poor and they're holding it too long. And you go into Cub or a
Rainbow, they have so much traffic, and that's the theory behind it, tha~
their fruit looks good. So the request is for $5,000.00 to participate
in. In addition to that, you'd all participate in the Grand Day Opening
which will be the 14th of November. Which will be a ribbon cutting. You
know the whole works one more time and it will be done with Market Square
so we'll have kind of a real activity going on on the 14th.
Bohn: Which is a Saturday?
Brad 3ohnson: Yeah. Balloon rides and stuff, like that. It's right in
the middle. It's usually a good time to do something because it's
between the elections and Thanksgiving and before the world takes off.
Horn: My only concern with this is, what kind of precedent we're doing..
Have we done this before?
Bohn: Yeah, we do it for'the 4th of 3uly.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 25
Horn: Well I know we do the 4th of July but this is a little different
than that. Plus the premise that Todd brought up is that we can justify
this based on the fact that' it's the whole Chanhassen merchants.
I guess I'm not convinced that we know that at this point. And-my third
concern is the-fact that we just, this stuff just kind of trickles into
us. You know we didn't know up front going in that this was going to be
part of the plan. Those are my.
Brad Johnson: Which?
Horn: This request.
·
Gerhardt: It's a request. You don't have to grant it. If it wasn't a
part of Market Square, we do not have to contribute. They're looking for
assistance to get more people involved in it..
Brad Johnson: Yeah. We'd use the dollars primarily to encourage
co-oping and getting more activity going and we'd go'directly, use the'
dollars to encourage our local merchants to participate. Now local
merchants include, Market Square basically represents half of your total
merchants that acknowledge this so.
Gerhardt: It's going to cost money...
Brad Johnson: He raises a good example. He's thinking about buying a
billboard and you know how Bernie likes to spend money. So we're going
to contribute $500.00 and Toro's going to spend $500.00 so he doesn't
have to spend any money. Okay. We being the City and us and then Toro
buys the other half. The same could be for anybody else. The other area
that is kind of critical is to'get this billboard campaign together.
Clark, I think you did contribute to the Grand Opening at Town Square.
You contributed to the ground breaking at Market Square.. You've done
this continuously.
Horn: We've contributed to Market Square already I think was the point.
Brad Johnson: But we kept that down to about $100.00. It wasn't very
much money. Wasn't it? That was a real.
Ashworth: I would have said $500.00.
Brad Johnson: It was a real cheap one. It looked like a big. deal but I
got everything free except for the sound system. You paid for the sound
system and it was very minor.
Horn: Well I don't, those.are my only concerns with it. I think it's a
good concept and I think knowing that we would go in this up front and
all the merchants were behind it, I'd feel much more comfortable.
Brad Johnson: Well I have to sell them on getting behind it. I've got.
to, you just tell me Brad, we wanC, before we write you a check, we want
some evidence that they were approached and they had a chance to
participate. I'll do that part.
Housing and Redevelopment'Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 26
Gerhardt: I think, from what I hear the HRA, you could delineate out
more...$5,000.O0 couid be spent that represents maybe two biliboards and
just say something about shop downtown Chanhassen. Is that what you
want...? I'm saying if it's more of a broad base thing that benefits,
asking people to come down.
Horn: That was your premise in presenting
Brad Johnson: And that's why we did this. Let's say that you sponsored
this, which has nothing to do with Market. It's the participation by the
other participants.
Gerhardt: So you're saying, give me a bill for two billboards. Show me
exactly.
Brad Johnson: I can do it right down to the, because we're just trying
to create activity. Okay. If you want one WCCO spot that interviews the
Chamber person. Not you guys. I mean just somebody talking about
downtown Chanhassen. We can do all those things so your money almost
looks 100~ going to what we're trying to do. We're just trying to create
a bigger pool of money, i.
Ashworth: Everybody doesn't have to. Again, when we did the Grand
Opening for the hotel, I mean we paid for the bus and the tour thing for
people to see the Arboret. um and lunch and it was just a nice gesture.
Horn: Okay, so we don't have to worry about precedent I guess. What are
the other commissioners comments?
Workman: I think we want'to, I think there'~ going to be enough about
going to downtown Chanhassen. Like I say, it's kind Of really different
to see come and shop in downtown Chanhassen. While you could do that
before, there wasn't a whole lot here to shop for. I think it's a small,
being on the Board with the Chamber, but not having talked to all of
them, I know that they're really anxious about this. I think something
needs to be done in coordination to wake up the rest of the people to
come in here so 'by the time we get the stop lights up, they'll really be
needed. But I think it's a small investment for trying to get this off,
all this off on the right foot. I think it will spill over like we
planned so all the other businesses, even if they don't advertise.
Brad 3ohnson: Yeah, I think it will be a real effort to..ithat's what
Todd and I talked about. I think I can document that we'll spend it on
downtown. And we did change some stuff, the word downtown. It was
Market Square and now it's downtown. That kind of stuff and changing it
and anticipating those kinds of questions.
Ashworth: Don, what's your impression?
Chmiel: My impression is that I don't think we should be in the-business
to do advertising for businesses within the city. Whether it be the City
or HRA. And I know that we go along with some of the other features that
we do. This is a little different kind of thing than what we've done
ever before. This kind of promotional activity.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 27
Brad Johnson: It's the same thing we did with Market Square. We did it
with Town Square. I mean we did all these things. The budget for Town
Square was $5,OOO.OO.
Chmiel: But we didn't go through this kind of advertising thoug.h did we?
Brad Johnson: Yeah, we hired a PR agency. Maybe you don't remember that
one. We had balloons and then we pushed down the building-over there and
all that kind of stuff. You guys participated in that. Same price.
Smaller budget.
Chmiel: Well I think if we know that the merchants are going to
participate within it.
Brad Johnson: That I assure you.
Chmiel: Then I'd say fine. But they'd have to participate before the
check is issued.
Horn: Charlie.
Robbins: Well just the way it's structured, it maEes sense. I see this,
since I'm involved with the Lion's within Chanhassen and we do quite a
bit of things in Chanhassen. And we hit on the merchants. You want to
call the word contribution. To me I just see this as just making a
contribution. Whether it be for advertising. We could just as well
contribute the 5 grand to buy party favors and do everything at the
Grand Opening. It's still, somebody's paying for it somehow. Whether it
goes to the advertising. Whether it goes towards the Grand Opening.-
Whether it goes toward hot air balloon ride or whatever prizes, it's
still the same $5,000.00 no matter which way it's set aside. To me it"s
a contribution from HRA to X. X meaning the coordinator person for the
downtown to get the deal going for 5 grand. $o to me, do it.
Horn: Jim.
Bohn: I have just one thing about, is the sign going to say downtown or
is it going to say Market Square? --
Brad Johnson: It will say Market Square and it will say downtown because
you're co-oping. You know they've spent a lot of money developing that
part and then you take a sign like this that says, come into downtown or
shop downtown but the streamer would be that. We'd only make one of
these and that will be the standard billboard. Okay. The Market Square
is paying $2,500.00 to get that printed. And what we would do then is
put the banners on to change that and that's what I was trying to get at.
Here is one attempt, and I'm not saying it's a perfect one. That was one
attempt and this would be the one, be kind of a neutral one a~d that
would be the one that we'd put down here. Another' example would be this
one here where, you know I can target your money Just to assist th'ese
guys. I'll go in and say, well this is only $50.O0...and they pay for
this part so your money is just going into here and that's just...
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 28
Chmiel: I guess I don't, the reason ! say that Brad is ali we're saying
is Market Square in Chanhassen. ~ like the word downtown Chanhassen.
And that's what I'd like to see really done. Even though you labei it
Market Square up on top but I like the downtown approach.
Brad Johnson: We can say Market Square, downtown Chanhassen. It's about
time. I can do that. Okay? We're just trying to solve the problem.
Robbins: ~ was going to Say, ! think just judging by -the .conversation,
more than likely this will take place, irregardless if we contribute. 'It '
will be on a small scale. Ail we're really doing is we're making a
contribution to the merchants. We're giving them 5 grand.
Brad Johnson: And I'm going to go to the merchants and say, guys. I've
got a deal you cannot turn down. Okay. The city or we are going to
contribute this hall's $100.00, you pay $50.00 and you're in. So now
I've doubled that. See I'm just trying to.
Robbins: We're getting more bang for the buck. I move acceptance to
contribute $5,000.00.
Wot kman: Second.
Robbins moved, Norkman seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment
Authority contribute $5,000.00.to Harket Square Partnership for promoting
the Grand Opening. All voted in favor except Chmiel who opposed and the
motion carried.
Horn: Just one recommendation to staff in the future when we have items
like this, I think it would be good to give us some history behind the
type of request and whether we've done it before and to what degree. It
would help us in our decision making.
Brad 3ohnson: Thank you gentlemen. Hold'the 14th open.
Horn: November?
Brad Johnson: November yeah. In the morning.
APPROVAL OF REVISED PURCHASE AGREEMENT WITH GARY KIRT ('HANUS FACILITY).
Horn: Any questions or comments? I think we've been over it several
times.
Ashworth: By the way, I did meet with Gary Brown. We sat in my office
for more than an hour. I went through each aspect. Why it is this was
going through and he thanked me for taking the time and said that looked
good and that was it.
Horn: Okay, staff's recommendation is approval. Jim made a motion to
approve. Is there a second?
Nor kman: Second.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority
September 24, i992 - Page 29
Horn: Any other discussion or questions?
Bohn moved, Norkman seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority
approve the revisad Purchase Agreement Nith Gary Kirt for the Hanus
facility as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
LIBRARY LOCATIONm DISCUSSION ITEM.
Horn: We've discussed this several times. -I think you pointed out here
that our request last time was, we preferred the Pauly/Pony/Pryzmus site.
Ashworth: What I'd like to be able to do is move this to the next step.
The plan that was done by Jeff is a schematic. I think it's nice. But
he didn't have an opportunity to visit with the library consultaht. Talk
about phasing so it doesn't really show in there is this, how big is
it? What could be done with the first phase. Second phase. We really'
didn't have anything as far as contours. Parking stalls really weren't
defined as to the number of those. We need to have something that we can
say yes, this is what we want to build. I did have an opportunity to, or
actually Todd did, finally this afternoon we played telephone tag for
this past week and Jeff would be willing to take it that next step which
Todd did not talk to him about price but I think it's only fair that we
pay him a reasonable amount. I don't know what that will.be but I'm sure
that it would be less than BRW, Hoisington, or Barton-Aschman so anyway,
what we would ask is your agreement that we should ask Jeff to be the one
that takes it to that next step.
Bohn: Would that include the Old depot?
Ashworth: We could have him take a look at that. I brought in Al.
Klingelhutz by the way and Jack Barnes and showed both of-those, the.plan
that had been prepared by Jeff and they asked what the next step would be
and I said, well if the HRA wants to move forward with this. I mean if
this comes about, it's going to mean we're going to have to acquire your
property because even, there's no w~y around it. I mean the building
goes on top of the existing building. And so I talked with the attorney
on Monday and asked him to assign an appraiser to do an appraisal for the
property and hopefully I'll have that back by our next meeting. And
hopefully Jeff will again, you're not going to have much more than a site
plan but at least it will be a scaled site plan and it will be one in
which you know the size of the library.and you have identified a first
phase versus a second phase and number of parking stalls and access. The
other one was just a little too sketchy. So it was taken to the library
board but they really didn't understand it and I can understand that.
Horn: Okay. What do you need from us tonight?
Ashworth: Well, I don't think really anything. If you're in agreement
that you'd like to see Jeff Farmakes be the one who helps take it to the
second step.
Horn: Yes.
Chmiel: Yep.
Housing and RedeveLopment Authority
September 24, 1992 - Page 30
Horn: We all agree I think.
APPROVAL OF BILLS:
Chmiel moved, Workman seconded to approve the Housing and Redevelopment
Authority Bills. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Robbins moved, Workman seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in
favor and the motion carried;
Submitted by Don Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim