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1992 09 24CH~NHASSEN HOUS[NG AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REGULAR MEETZNG SEPTEMBER 24, 1992 Chairman Horn called the meeting to order at 5:30 p.m.. MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Don Chmiel, Tom Workman, Charlie Robbing and Jim Bohn STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; and Todd Gerhardt-, Asst. Executive Director , APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Workman moved, Chmiel seconded to .approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated August 20, 1992 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF CONSTRUCTION MAN~vGER FOR THE BOWLING CENTER/ CONFERENCE CENTER PROJECT, This item was tabled. UPDATE ON HIGHWAY 5 AND Ft4RKET. BOULEVARD ENTRY MOUNTS. Horn: I think your explanation was pretty'self explanatory. Did anybody have a problem or see any differences or come up with any new ideas'than we directed last time? Chmiel: The only concern I have is that Jeff I think really has the full handle on it and he and Don w~re going to have some discussion. I don't know if that has taken place as yet, but I would llke to make sure that prior to the final development of this edifice, that we make sure that he looks at the design prior to any.submittal for contract. Ashworth: ...2 or 3 times on the wall. Gerhardt: I think that the best decision ever in getting Jeff involved in this project. He has taken this to a level of detail that, it's kind of unbelieveable. I mean he has looked at this thing so closely. He is getting down to the quarter of an inch. We've scheduled a meeting for next Tuesday between Barton-Aschman to work out what I'm going to say are the very details of what 3elf would like to see this project accomplish. It is not changing the concept that you have in front of you with the exception of maybe making that leaf proportionately more realistic to a leaf design and changing maybe the size of the leaves or what I'll call are the olive branches coming down from'that. Basically the concept, the lettering. The brick layout is going to change a little bit. 3elf feels that if this is a pattern, he wants to see more of a random selection of placement of the brick. And this has got a pattern that doesn't relate to anything in Chanhassen. His example was the gazebo walls on each side. That that was more of a random pattern. He had slides and pictures that he's gone out and-taken. He's dedicated a lot of time on this project and I think it's, his ideas and the detail that he's discussed regarding this is unbelieveable. I think you're going to be real happy with the final project. It's got that much of a personal touch to it. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 2 Horn: I think all we really need to do this evening is to confirm our previous approval on this, unless something has changed. Workman: So moved. Horn: We don't even need to make a motion unies= there'= new input. Workman: Motion withdrawn. Horn: I'm glad to see that Jeff is spending so much time on it and I'm sure he'll do a good job on it. Bohn: Are they going to be able tO start on that this year? Gerhardt: We hope so. We're planning this for winter. If the snow stays away, I think we can still get on it yet. Horn: Okay. Anything else on that item? UPDATE ON TARGET Gerhardt: An update on Target. This could be done every 5 minutes of the day I think. I guess first of all I'd like to highlight. This is going to City Council this coming Monday 'for site plan approval, and they're also asking for a grading permit. With that, it's going to be difficult for them to get on site to start grading until certain things are agreed to...repurchase agreement back with you. They're.going to be taking some of the dirt and soil corrections with roadway bases, alignment of roads. This meeting Monday night will really lay the ground work to finalize the purchase agreement with'the HRA. The repurchase agreement. Entering into a redevelopment contract with the HRA. Working out details with purchase of the outiots from Ryan. From the HRA to Ryan. Monday's meeting will really lay the ground work for all this stuff to occur. One of the things that I'm concerned about is the architectural style of the building. I included in your packet the renderings, the layout of, the conceptual layout for the outlot. Horn: Do you have a colored or a larger view of that you could show us? Gerhardt: Yeah. I laid it out upstairs. Horn: I have a little trouble just visualizing this. One of the concerns that staff has was this big blank wall as you drive down along West 78th Street. And we worked With them a lot and pushed them and hammered on them to try to do something to break that massive wall up. You're not going to see a wall. The grade difference is one and you can see that in one context in there, as you drive along there...6 foot' retaining wall. A lot of this wall will be hid as you're driving down the street. But we still wanted to break up...farther west there, you're going to see more of a wall. That's where we had them come in with these elements here protrude out. These things will be backlit in this area. It will be lit at night and sort of look like store windows :to some ' extent without windows. They Just broke up a plain wall and gave some Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 3 shadowing effects... RobbinG: ~hy can't they extend that the rest of the building? I mean the way it's shown, it looks like it stops or is that just parking or what have we got here? Gerhardt: You can see in that one picture a lot of this you won't even see because of the grade. This is where the retaining wall. RobbinG: Yeah, I know that but just because you will see part of it though. Horn: This is a different scale here than what he's got. This is your view? Gerhardt: Right. Horn: Well see now these are equally spaced' and on yours they're ail scrunched to the side. RobbinG: That's why I was asking the question on that one because it's not shown that way. Chmiel: It's moved over a little more.- A little bit of difference.'. RobbinG: The one I can see on our drawing, but not on that one because one of them is. Horn: Right, our's looks better. Gerhardt: ...I'll find out which one of these is right. If that's right, you prefer more of a proportioned one. Bohn: Not necessarily. Not if you don't see the back part of it. That end part. Gerhardt: Well this is still all the wall on the north side of the building. Bohn: That's the north side of the building? Gerhardt: This is as you drive along Nest 78th street. RobbinG: And also you do not put firs or trees or landscaping above and beyond the wall? If the wall is there okay. Then back of the wall on the south side you have trees back of that. Gerhardt: On the south side of the building? RobbinG: No. North side of the building. South side of the wall. Between the structure and the. Gerhardt: Parking lot? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24. 1992 - Page 4 Robbins: Yeah, parking lot...trees in there. Bohn: Is there trees and shurbs there? I hope there is. Robbins: Well, that's ~ot the way it's shown though. Councilman Mason: The landscaping along West 78th Street I personally have a lot of trouble with. That's an issue that I... Robbins: Especially on the south side. Councilman Mason: Yes. Robbins: Yeah. Councilman Mason: The view, the pictures that we saw, the colored drawings looked kind of like a blank Wall. Robbins: That's the way it appears to me. That's why I asked the question. Councilman Mason: Yeah, and I mentioned at the Planning Commission meeting and I don't know if... Horn: Well we're not sure what we've got because what we're seeing here and what we're looking at there are totally different- Gerhardt: You can add the trees between the parking lot and that but from a view from West 78th Street... Councilman Mason: Right, but trees mature in what, 20 years? Robbins: Let's put in mature trees now. Mature fir trees are...firs are going to cost you a couple hundred dollars a piece. Councilman Wing: Don,-another question I have, Clark if I could comment on. This is one of the biggest projects in the city. One of the largest buildings. One of the largest retail going in with some of the most complexities of traffic and conflict and...why 'are we basing' this entire project on one little piece of paper with some sketch that some artist has made look good. Go buy some stained glass windows...sketch like that and see what you get. How do these plans come in...and not have a picture with computer imaging. It's in. It's here today... I don't know why we keep looking at these little sketches for this multi-million dollar project when they can come, out and take a picture of the thing. Draw the building in and start putting in trees and...computer imagery. I don't know why... Horn: Nell this isn't what they plan to present to the City Council is it? Gerhardt: This came right out of their packet. Horn: This is the whole thing? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 5 Gerhardt: Yes. RobbinG= I think in fairness to. Horn: I thought we weren't seeing the whole thing that you guys get. Gerhardt: They get some boards that are colored. Councilman Mason: It's a bigger picture but it's the same thing. RobbinG: We spent about 3 years in ali fairness to the'development of Market Square. We spent several years of that requiring them to do some hoop jumping and getting a lot of different renderings or drawings. mean we did go through that a couple different times to get'different drawings. And yet we're going to go with a one shot deal here. I think we'd want to exercise the same caution to them as we. are to here really. Or to here as we are to them. Gerhardt: In their defense, we've seen 5 different site plans already. I have 5 different site plans in my office. RobbinG: Of what? Gerhardt: From the changes that they've made from the start, site plan changes. I mean this is number $. They added the things to the building. Before they didn't have it. Before we got a few trees in the parking lot where they didn't have any trees in the parking. I mean We worked with a very clean box 'building and we've built it to what you've got here so far. I mean this is how they do this. Horn: So you can't tell, it's hard to tell on here. Robbins: No, but we asked the bank to do a lot of different drawings. We did with Market Square. The hotel and a few others. Why can't we ask them to give us the courtesy? Horn: I don't think we had to ask the bank. They just gave them to us. RobbinG: Well whatever but, why can't 'we end up with comparable plans so we see basically what we're working with 'here. Horn: Is this this green metal stuff again? How did that get in there? I don't like that. Never have. I don't know how it snuck in in the first place. How did we get that? Bohn: It matches Market Square. Horn: Well I know but just because we did it once doesn't mean we have to do it on everything. What's wrong with shingles? Whatever happened to shingles? Gerhardt: Well I tried to give them my' concept and that wasn't good enough. So this is their modeI that they've been buiIding in Chicago. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 6 And they're making tweaks to it as we, the Planning Commission recommend so basically the concept you have in front of you is what the Planning Commission has approved with the exception, of the walkway that goes down the middle of the parking lot. And they are adamant about not having that parkway go down the middle of the parking lot. What that does is it now puts you back into the negotiating arena with them. You eliminate the sidewalk down the building and maybe we can get you shingles or they've shown some concepts over to Don on a walkway. Putting more landscaping along West 78th Street. Adding more green along West 7$th Street. And in lieu of having to put that sidewalk down the middle of their parking lot. Horn: Which group has the authority for architectural fendings? Is that the Council? Is that the Planning Commission or is that us? Or do we all? Or how, it's not clear to me how that works. I always get, the way it works out is well somebody else got to decide that. Gerhardt: And staff has got thrown around in the middle~. When you guys have asked for certain changes to architectural style, then the Planni'ng Commission feels that you're getting into their arena and making changes and they don't have any say in it. The approach that we've been taking now is to go through Planning Commission, City Council, keeping you appraised of, that's what I'm doing tonight, of the styles that the Planning Commission has approved. -' Horn: So the Planning Commission is the one that approves these green tin roofs? Gerhardt: Yes. They approved 'all the sites. They approved the bank. They approved Market Square. Horn: I'll have to get on the Planning Commission I guess. Chmtel: Can I ask a question? Horn: Yes. Chmiel: Todd, in the overall proposal that Target has provided tO us, is there any discussion with them or any indication that they might have had that there may be, or there could be two entrances and exits into that building? In other words, giving the customer and providing the customer that opportunity if they're going into their Target store for just one specific thing they can go in one door. Go close to that product. Get that product that they want'and go right back out. Give them the accessibility to the parking lot in itself rather than having a long distance walk from one point to the other. In other words, having two entrances going in and lining up their, and I'm not trying to change their design from the inside because I don't know a damn thing about it but I'm just thinking, could that be of a benefit to make that building look a little better aesthetically by having that? Gerhardt: It's real difficult to do with this site. With Highway 5.and grades and the ponding needed on one side and the depth that you have Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 7 between the building and West 78th Street. Because they want to associate their parking with those entrances. People are going to take the shortest path. They're going .to take the stall closest to the door and if you can't, if you put an entrance on what I'll say is the south side of the building where there's not that much parking as it's laid out here, people won't use that entrance. Chmiel: No, I mean on the front.' The front on 7$th Street where it wouId be having one to the east and one to the west of that building. Gerhardt: They do have buildings with two entrances and again they like to have an equal amount of-parking on both sides of those from the designs that we've seen. In this case they don't have that parking equalization so no, we haven't asked them for an additional access on what I'll say is the north side and I don't know if you would. It would change the interior layout of their building. Chmiel: That's what I'm saying. I don't know it would e'~fect them on the inside but look at it from the outside, it would give the balance of that building of having those two on each end. And then having some of this in the center portion.' To design it to make it look a little different. Clayton Johnson: They do do two entrances on their Greatiand but this is not a. Gerhardt: This is their traditional store. Chmiel: I know, yeah. Clayton Johnson: But on the Sreatland they do have two-entrances. Chmiel: Okay. I haven't been to a Greatland so I can't say. Bohn: Where's this sidewalk going down the center? You talk about a sidewalk sort of like it going down the center. Gerhardt: ...they gave us some of the 5 that they had one...said they wouldn't accept it. Councilman Mason: The Planning Commission wanted'a sidewalk going down the middle of the parking lot to connect... Bohn: Well we don't even have a sidewalk, in Market Square. You can't get to Market Square by sidewalk. You can walk around the outside. There's no way to get the sidewalk that goes to all the stores without walking through the parking lot. In fact even the bank across 'the street, there's no sidewalk going to that bank. Gerhardt: I think we did have one incorporated with Market Square at one time and...maintenance headache for these people...provided more impervious surface coverage...but again these people are scared if somebody's going to slip on this stuff if it's not maintained well in the wintertime. It may just end up just throwing their snow on top of these Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 8 things...we may find this is where the pile of snow is going to be and so, I'd rather try to negotiate trees along side of the building and providing more greenery along West 7$th Street between their parking lot and West 78th Street than to try to get a sidewalk down the middle of the parking lot. Bohn: I don't necessarily mean down the middle of a parking lot but some way to get to the building from the sidewalk along the street. Chmiel: They're looking at that I'm sure from a safety aspect. But in the same token, that ~can be a problem during the winter going along as you're saying. Bohn: Look at safety. Safety. Walking down a sidewalk is a lot safer than walking in a parking lot. Especially...get splashed in the wintertime. Chmiel: Have we ever checked to see what other cities as to the amount of accidents that have occurred or pedestrians being hit? Horn: I think there's more fender benders from cars in parking lots than people. Chmiel: Well I'm sure that's what it would be than having people hit. Ashworth: They contend that they've had more., that this has been their number one complaint area. In tbs wintertime, especially...people don't . see it, literally drive, start driving right across it. An area where vehicles park over the top of sidewalks, esp.ec!ally if they back in. The amount of walkway area is less. You're left with a 3 or 4 foot area to actually walk over. It's an area where people, if they do push their carts in from this walk area, they end up doing more damage to vehicles that are parked along there beGause the thing gets out of control or' rolls off and hits a car. For them it's a real maintenance problem. They would, they're open to almost anything except for 'that walkway. They would suggest instead to move the entire site plan. Horn: How do they feel about shingles? Ashworth: They would move everything 15 feet to the south and they would build a berm into this section...and then they' would agree to heavily landscaping this to the point where you couldn't even sas the parking lot or the building. If you put a berm in here and...the elevation difference. Councilman Mason: Do we know for sure that includes this? Gerhardt: I'm not showing it but since you're a Council member you can say okay, we'll agree to get rid of this but we want to see this over here too. Chmiel: West 78th Street. Gerhardt: Right. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 9 Chmiel= What problem will that do with drifting? If you put a berm there. Horn: It's on the south side, you won't get it there. Chmiel: You're talking south side. You're not talking north. Okay. Ashworth: The Planning Commission recommendation was to put a concrete walk right down here or this one. I don't know which one it is, but again, in winter, heavy rains, people aren't going to see the thing. Actually it reduces the amount of impervious area and reduces the places for trees. If you're going.to do that, you'll force them into doing more in other areas. Horn: Yeah, I agree. Councilman Wing: Rs long as we're standing here Don.. Here's the road. You're showing, this is what you want. Is this what you're going to get? What's the status between this...and this one? Horn: The plan has changed. Ashworth: Yeah. The original roadway was up here to the northerly alignment. Now it has moved down 120 feet...part of the public hearing to authorize construction of West 78th Street .... there are actually a number of benefits. Our acquisition cost I anticipate is going to be significantly less because this is owned by Charlie James and of course this is up here as well. We would look at a total...before. Now we've got a partial. The roadway as it will continue out to Lake Ann, right now . Councilman Mason: I was going to say. Whe're is that going to occur? Ashworth: Right here. In fact I can show you a little bit... (There was discussion going on that wasn't being picked up on the tape recording. ) Ashworth: Here's Highway 5 and here's what we'd be-'developing...CR 17. This is the new alignment. This takes, there's far less of an S curve. Here's the old alignment, from Market Square... The other part of that is... Workman: Why don't you turn it over' Ashworth: The other benefit of moving the road, it reduces the S curve out there...less back up from Highway 5. Those people coming back into town. But here was another one. Now this is a Class A wetland. The edge of that wetland is here. So you leave it up here, you get into that wetland area with the construction. If you move it down, the construction is going to stay outside of that wetland. Chmiel: By moving it that much forward, what problems does that do for stacking? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 10 Ashworth: Stacking is not a problem but what they did have to do is, they've added a double... Horn: Has the County reviewed this? Amhworth: Yes. Horn: They're okay with it? Ashworth: Yeah. The issue the Council will face on Monday night is, both of these owners, Charlie James. Charlie wants the median cut and these owners want the right-in/right-out. Workman: Is Charlie now okay with this alignment? Ashworth: Well it's hard to tell from Charlie but. Horn: He's okayer than he was. Ashworth: That's what it will look like if you have the right-in/right- out. Staff is recommending that you don't have this at all. This disappears and the access is solely down in here. Have this disappear. Not allow that and...Now that I have our attention. One of the reasons you employed Strgar was to have them tell you some of 'the things that are wrong with the downtown area and what we can do...so you go into four lane construction starting here at Kerber and all the way back... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Bohn: ...I would still like to see a sidewal~ from that front door of the store to the sidewalk going along the street. Horn: Along the street. Bohn: Yeah, so you can get from the door. Horn: Right. Not through the middle of the parking but along the street? Bohn: No, no, no. Horn: Have you got that Todd? Gerhardt: I got it. You want trees along, between the curb and the building on the north side. You want a mirror image of the landscaping that's in front of you by the retaining wal 1 and. Horn: Some type of a break up feature such as this that goes more symmetrical along the wall. Gerhardt': That proportionately lines, up with the wall of the building. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 11 Bohn: Right. And a sldewalk from their front door to the sidewalk along the street. Horn: And I have a personal blas against tin roofs. Gerhardt: I don't know what we're going to do with that one. Chmiel: Yeah, keep that tin out of there. Bohn: So if somebody's coming'down with a baby stroller, they don't have to get out in the parking lot to get over to the front door. Gerhardt: I need one clarification. You-see this sidewalk' here Sim. This is a sidewalk so if I take my son and !'m going down here and go Ii ke this. Bohn: I don't want this thing going down the middle. I just want a sidewalk... Horn: Is that clear direction? Does everybody agree with that? Bohn: We talked about that road being widened. Why didn't they make it wider all the way down instead of just, was it Market? You're going to widen it as far as Market Blvd. right? Ashworth: From Laredo all the way out to CR 17. We'll take full width... The south side would have a restriction-in front of the hotel but we've got a plan that shows how you could take that restriction out of there. But it would involve removing that wall and displacing a portion of their par. king. Strgar is saying, the roadway in it's current condition can handle the traffic putting in traffic control devices through the year 2005. Bohn: It's like going downtown, taking main street and going down to TH 5 by Brown. You've got two lanes of traffic and then all of a sudden you get down across the railroad tracks and you're down to one lane because you've got that divider in there. It's' two lanes of traffic in front of the par king lot. Horn: By the Dinner Theatre. Bohn: By the Dinner Theatre but when you get down there, you've got a turn lane instead of two lanes of traffic. Horn: It seems to go into one for a place in-front of $orenson's building and then it goes back out into two as it gets down to TH 101. Why is that done like that? Ashworth: That's a good question. In thinking about it, you're right. Bohn: Both directions. Horn: And they just changed it to'narrow it. There were two lanes in Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 12 there and it just changed. Bohn= Same thing from...You come from off TH 5 and you. have two lanes . and all of a sudden you g9 to one. Then you get back up past the railroad tracks and you've got two lanes again. Chmiel: That's where your right yield. Workman: There was supposed to be a median in there where you couldn't really make that turn. I remember that argument with the City'Engineer. Previous one, That there was supposed to be a median there after the track heading north. But because of the Klingelhutz property and the Dinner Theatre property, we removed it. So it looks wider. Bohn: We don't want a median in there. Workman: I know but that's why it appears wider. Bohn: And it's two lanes wide too. Horn: Yeah, it's actually marked that way for a stretch. It will be interesting to see when they put the marks down where they'll go. Councilman Wing: I guess I'm making an assumption, and I don't know if it's correct or not but it seems like West' 78th Street is a HRA project should change... And there's a couple of issues about that I'd like to address. Could' I ask that the West 78th Street issue be put on a future agenda? HRA agenda. I'd like to come and address a couple of problems I see. Horn: It's one thing that we've talked about'coming back to on a repeated basis as we periodically develop this whole thing. We need to keep a close look at the overall traffic flow. I think it's something we need to re-address on a periodic basis as each element completes. We have to make sure what we have there still makes sense. $o I think it's appropriate to bring that up again. It's been a while since we've done that. We've made some adjustments but we need to make some more. Workman: I move that the HRA, the first HRA in January revi6it this. Horn: You want to wait for the snow? Chmiel: Just prior to December. Horn: Oh I see. Alterior motives. Okay, anything else on the Target. The other thing I think, if you can kind of send a message.back to them before they make their presentation to the City Council, is that the HRA was disappointed in the presentation material. The visuals.we had to make a decision with. Just from the representation I heard from the City Council, they would prefer to see better presentation material at their meeting on Monday night if they can burn some weekend oil to put something a little more presentable than this and something that's consistent between this and this. I think would make it easier for the city Council to deal with. Anything else? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 13 Robbing moved, Workman seconded that the Housing and RedeveIopment Authority recommended that the foiIow/ng /tams be Iooked at further by Target: 1. Trees between the curb'and the building on the north side. 2. A mirror image of the landscaping by the retaining wall some type of a break up feature that goes more symmetrical that proportionately lines up with the wall of the building. 3. The sidewalk from the front door to the sidewalk along the street. 4. The green tin roofs. All voted /n favor and the mot/on cart/ed. VZSZTOR PRESENTATIONS= Horn: It seemed inappropriate to have a Visitor Presentation at 5:30 when nobody was here. I think most of the people here are already on the agenda but if there's something that's not on the agenda that you want to address, we'd entertain that at this point.. Clayton 3ohnson: We want to find out what happened. What was the action taken on the construction manager? Horn: We are getting some more reference checking and Don and Todd are going to put together some projected costs with each of the three approaches and we'll make a final selection next meeting. Clayton 3ohnson: Does that mean we don't do anything again for another 30 days? Chmiel: It sounds like it. Horn: What, if we had somebody picked. Clayton 3ohnson: We had a partners meeting this morning again of the hotel and I guess we're looking for something that tells us that we should go ahead with our plan. I was looking for one of two things. Either some very distinct action on the bowling alley site, which I understand hasn't happened. Or hiring the construction manager which would allow us to proceed. Our architect was here tonight. We're still pawing the ground. We'd like to proceed with, to a preliminary plan. We find it very difficult to proceed to a preliminary plan not knowing what's going on behind us. Robbins: Clayton, just being a. little facetious, but 'how would your plan differ depending upon the construction manager? Clayton 3ohnson: Well I understand the construction manager is going to develop a conceptual plan for the city's part of the project. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 14 Robbins: We're seeing all things are equal now. The cost was the same. Construction's the same. Everything's identical. Why would your plan be different depending upon the construction manager? Clayton 3ohnson: I understand he's going to employ an architect and the architect is going to take your, and develop a conceptual plan for the city's portion of the project. $o we know what we're building next to. Chmiel: The CM won't get the architect. The City will choose the architect. Clayton Johnson: I was under the impression, well that may be but I mean can that proceed ahead of the construction manager? Horn: I would think the prelimiDary plans could. Ashworth: The architect knows that he is working for the construction manager so the intent was to employ a construction manager. -Set his recommendations as to who to interview or to, the construction manager will be a real integral part of the selection of the architect. Yes, it will be done by this body but hopefully based oD the strengths or weaknesses of the construction manager, that he will look to an architect that, number one he can work with. But number two, that can work with him. That adds additional strengths to the strength~ that he brings to the table. Bohn: And we have to wait a month to make the decision of who we're going to pick for a construction manager? Ashworth: Well, what we could do, if you would so desire, is have a special meeting date. Chmiel: How long is it going to take you to pull together the information that we requested? Ashworth: Not over a week. The only question is, could we present it at the meeting or would you want to take and be able to digest it for 3-4 days? If you want to have it in your hands so that we, let's say if we did it 2 weeks from today and met early. I don't know if you'd be able to meet like at a 5:00-5:30 type of timeframe. 'Be done in a half hour. Robbins: Or Don, in fairness to Clayton, the difference of meeting in one week versus two weeks to three weeks, does that cause, a problem? Clayton Johnson: No. It's been on our agenda since March and my credibility gets to be at stake at some point in time. They really begin to question the city's commitment to the project. The meeting this morning was again. .' Robbins: Well I think we're...in the project. I think we're saying construction manager. I think that's the consensus here. Clayton 3ohnson: It's just difficult for us. We can't go any further. I mean we can't really talk about whether or not we can finance it or Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 15 whether it's not, we have to go out and raise equity until we get a conceptual plan. We've got to get to'the plan to the point where it's, we can get some cost estimates and so on. We really cao't, we ran 96~ last month again. Chmiel: Nell we like to see that. Clayton Johnson: We had 15 turn aways. I mean 15 nights with turn aways and very honestly, what will happen is there will be a competitor in here and that's what will happen. Horn: So you're waiting for the approval of the architecture so he can review your plans? Clayton 3ohnson: No. We're waiting for a conceptual plan to come from the city. - Horn: I've got the same problem that Charlie has'understanding. Clayton Johnson: Okay. We've seen several versions of what's going to be behind us and what we're going to hook up to. And I thought the process was, the construction manager's hired. He retains an architect and the architect gets the City's portion of the project far enough along so that we can start with our architect to do a design for our part of the project that is consistent with your plan' That' all we're trying to do. RobbinG: I think our plan will be consistent no matter which person we use I think. Clayton Johnson: Yeah, but don't we have to, but it has to happen. I don't care who it is. RobbinG: This isn't arguing. I'm asking, a question. Clayton Johnson: No, I don't think it makes a difference who it is. RobbinG: One of the three, it should conceptually come out the same way shouldn't it? Gerhardt: I think you both are saying the same thing. I think Clayton wants to start today and we're going to start 2-3 weeks from now. RobbinG: But can't he start making his project today because our's is just determining the person that's going to back our end'of the deal really I think, isn't it? Unless I'm missing it. Horn: I'm having trouble understanding this too..The impression I get from Clayton is that he's looking to the City to determine what the architectural styling and structure is going to be so that his architect can look at it and match their portion of it in accordingly. Clayton Johnson: Right. We need to know where the escalator's going to be. Is it going to empty into an area that's going to be our lobby or is Housing and Redevelopment 4uthority September 24, 1992 - Page 16 it going to be. Workman: Utility room. Clayton Johnson: Utilities or wherever. Horn: I guess from your perspective, what stage of the process does the architect that this construction manager gets, when is that in the timing? Ashworth: Again, once the architect is on board. Both of those two will visit the site. They'll take a look at the preliminary plans that have developed. They'll take and say, it really doesn't'make any sense to have the escalator in this location. It should be here. They'll.go back, come back. They're start to refine the plan and I think that's what Clayton is saying. Give us a refined plan of what it is that the City is going to do and then we can start matching into that. You know, you tell us from a city perspective that the second floor elevation is going to be at 968.2. And we can start going from there. Then we know if we've got two steps up or three steps down. Horn: Okay. Do you understand Why we're holding him up? Do you two understand that? Why-we're holding him up. Chmiel: We want to know what it's going to cost us, number one. Ashworth: We can't give. Chmiel: That's one of the things that we're going to find out. Horn: No, I understand that. I'm asking. Chmiel: Cost. We don't know that. Clayton Johnson: Cost for what, Don? Chmiel: The cost for constructing and going through-this process. And that's got to be a gimme for us. We've got to know where we're going. Same way you have to know where you're going to go with your dollars. .. Robbins: But based on that, I don't think that should change dramatically based on the person we use. I mean given the three we've got, assuming we're going to pick one or-three, the plans are going to come out the same. 8ohn: No they won't. Robbins: Well that's not the way it was worded in here. Horn: That's what I'm getting at. Ashworth: The general plan, for what we want to do. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 17 Horn: Do you two understand why we're holding ~layton up? Or is it your understanding that we are holding him up? Ashworth: I would say that we are. Bohn: I think we are too. Horn: Then I asked the question earlier this evening, what are we going to hold up by waiting one more month to decide on this. Nobody came up with an answer that we're going to hold up Clayton for a month. Ashworth: I Just said that no. We're delaying his ability to move forward with the project. If we can't tell him that we're going to have a corridor on the back side and exactly where that corridor is going to be and the width of it, he can't really decide or have an architect look at how they're going to rennovate Merlin's to match into something that we don't know... Clayton 3ohnson: If I can accept the plans that have been drawn'and if that is what is going to be built, we'd proceed today but I'm under the impression that that was a very, very preliminary conceptual plan and I thought that the hiring of the construction manager and the architect was to get the conceptual plan. to the point where all.of us would know what our costs are. I mean we don't know what it costs to build the hotel. You know because we don't have a set of plans. Chmiel: You've got a pretty good handle. Clayton 3ohnson: Oh sure we do. Oh sure. Yeah, we aren't going to build it if it ~oesn't come within certain costs. But t'hat is the frustration yeah. Ashworth: And in a similar fashion, I mean we've given out cost estimates to the HRA but that was back through Hoisington Inc.. I feel very uncomfortable saying yeah, this is absolutely. We've got a project' I mean what was the example that one of these firms used. Some city had an estimate of $8 million and they brought them in and it was really $13.5. Chmiel: The same way with the 3usttce Center-. Carver County. $5 million and it came in at more than. Horn: So did you kill the project? Chmiel: No, we went ahead. Clayton 3ohnson: Yeah, I guess that's my only concern i's that everybody understand why the ramifications are and that. Ashworth: And I think Clayton will be the first to admit as well,. there's other work that is going on. I.mean the attorney is back with them. They're putting into writing what is being acquired. What they're responsible for and hopefully then the costs associated with that, some of those things could fall apart too. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page i8 Clayton 3ohnson: Yeah, we've got our commitment. We've got a commitment today from the owners that they wouId proceed under any one of two circumstances. Either if the equity, if the financing is unable, if we're not abIe to obtain financing from the current lender, they're going to proceed to raise the necessary equity to do it with strictly equity. So I mean I think the owners have made a very strong commitment but right now we're kind of at-a standstill. Horn: Let me ask the Commission, was everybody on the Commission, was it your impression that if we delayed this a month it would have a detrimental effect on the overall project? Bohn: I knew it would deiay it. Horn: Well, you asked the question. Robbins: I asked the question but it was more so if we choose person A, B or C. That was the question right there. What difference does it make if we choose A, B or C? That was the question. Horn: Yeah, from you asking... Robbins: Yeah. Horn: Well I think we ought to proceed as quickly as we can and have a. special meeting. Ashworth: In 2 weeks then we'll put a packet out. It would be a Week from today. Next Friday. Horn: Let me ask the next question. If we had two candidates instead of three, would it speed your job up? Ashworth: Yes. To make Todd's job easier, the action'that was taken was to table but I think it's fair to say-that if staff went back and brought back more detailed answers associated with Just two firms, we would meet the intent of the commission. And I think everyone knows which .of the two firms we're talking about. Horn: I think that's the way we should proceed. And have a special meeting as quickly as we can. I don't think we're that far away from making a decision. Chmiel: No, I don't either. Ashworth: So 2 weeks from today with staff putting out the packet to you, the analyzation a week from today. Chmiel: Make up your mind one way or the other. Horn: Right. Well we had new input, unfortunately. Ashworth: Would you like to select a time for that while we're talking about it? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 19 HoT n: Two wee ks. Ashworth: ! mean like 5=30 then? Horn: 5:30. lilorkman: 5:30, Riv. Horn: January 1st. Workman: We've got enough, I came tonight ready to make a decision but we've got enough little trains that could deals going on. It seems like there's always this built leakage of time that adds up to 6 months. I've seen that in the years that I've been on here just, I mean that's the City Council. That's everybody. A gentleman talked to me after a City Council meeting and he says, you know you guys didn't make any decisions tonight. You know. - . Chmiel: Sometimes it gets that way unfortunately. Horn: I think we could have been in a position to-make a decision tonight. Anyhow, let's expedite that. We'll compromise. Any other visitor presentations? REQUEST FROM MRRKET SQURRE PARTNERSHIP TO ASSIST IN PROMOTIN~ THI~ GR~ND OPENING OF MARKET SQUARE. Gerhardt: Attached you'll find a request from both'Lotus Realty and Market Square Limited Partnership for assistance in both the Grand Opening and marketing and promoting the downtown Chanhassen. Mr. ~ohnson, Brad Johnson has requested time on the agenda tonight that he may present their marketing plan for both the downtown and for Market Square. I have sat through this presentation and I think it's an excellent idea. They are not just marketing Market Square development. They have pinpointed certain, locations in southwest quadrant of the Twin Cities area and...billboard and other marketing needs and display areas to show people driving by how far they are from downtown Chanhassen. And with that type of marketing I think ail the downtown business people benefit from that. I wobld be very hesitant to even put this on the agenda if this was solely for the Market Square development. You see a lot of people come in front of you asking for assistance for marketing each individual business in this community, if that was to be that way. But I think the approach that they are taking, they realize that it would benefit the entire downtown and tell people how far they are from downtown Chanhassen. You're only lO minutes from downtown. You're only ~5 minutes from downtown in certain locations. I thought it was a benefit to all the businesses. I'd like to have Brad give a small presentation on what they presented to some of the businesses. Brad Johnson: Are you guys okay with that? Horn: What's that? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 20 Brad Johnson: There's no sound back there. I don't know if I want to do anything tonight. Have you seen the burgundy? Chmie!: Yes. Brad Johnson: Don't they look nice? Workman: With the green roofs? Brad Johnson: Sooner or later we'll hide the green roofs. Chmiel: This is on the Subway. · · Brad Johnson: Doesn't it look nice though? It will be all the way around so that's the third color. Bohn: That burgundy I beam that runs in front of. Brad Johnson: That will be gone. Bohn: I talked to the contractor. He said, no that's staying there. That's in front of Gateway Foods. That big I beam that runs. Brad Johnson: I haven't seen the look. Basically what you have in fro~t of you is a proposal that we have been working on for 2 months with the Market Square people along,with the Chamber of Commerce and the Dinner Theatre. We made these presentations. The concept is that we need from, strictly from the point of view from the merchants. A lot of people don't know how to get to Chanhassen and as an example,-Pat Pappenfus does not know how to get downtown Excelsior and she's in the Chamber. I' mean there's a lot of people that Just don't know how to get here. And we feel that with the addition of this particular retail, that a lot of attention should be spent trying to make sure people' know that Highway 17- is a way of getting to Chanhassen and vice versa. You can use TH 101 because we've got some very good streets to encourage the traffic pull here. And it turns out that 3/4 of our total market area is in fact to the northwest. A lot of those people should learn that they can come down to Chanhassen and shop. Not just as Market Square but anyplace. I've know that. for a long time because I just kind of monitor where -. everybody's coming from. And then we've got the Target studies and everybody else's study and it Just's interesting to see where a large' share of our market in fact is.. I think with our new road system coming on, I don't know if you've been monitoring how you make turns 'but I do and I'm starting to use Highway $ where I never used to use it and I'm avoiding 78th which I think is good. So I don't.think we'll see as much traffic on 78th as I anticipated because with the stop lights and everything else, I think we're encouraging so people just need to know how to get here. In addition to that, we've come up with a theme and I'm using a billboard because that kind of works the best but it's about time we had a grocery store, right? And so for the people who are on this group and those of us who have been working on it a long time, the theme is, it's about time. And you can say that, it's about time. That's one way to say it. And as we get more into the Excelsior market or over into the Glen Lake market, it's about time and we're talking about how long Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 21 does it take to get to Chanhassen from where they-live. A lot of them don't know that. So as we do these billboards, each one will have the time it takes to get to that particular site. Okay? So it's 3 minutes from that corner, wherever that billboard happens to be located. The reason we're selecting billboards is, you remember you don't have them on Highway 5 but they are over on Highway-7 and there are merchants in our marketplace like Bernie and the Festival and stuff like that can draw people that use the Highway 7 corridor. For a long time the Highway 7 corridor people have not shopped Chanhassen. They just didn't believe anything was over here. HoT n: There wash ' t. Brad Johnson: You're right. And there is just a concern that we spent some time doing this, okay. So there's different ways of doing it. For example, if the store co-op's. Now what we've set all this up to do is these stripes are sort of co-op advertising so that Festival can say, it's 3 minutes to Festival or whatever. And then if we can get a billboard program put together, which means we have to buy about $ billboards. Not 10 or anything like that, then they will make available to us one of those portable billboards. Remember Highway $ doesn't have any billboards. And what we're recommending is that that billboard be put down at the corner of Highway S and lOl because that's, where a lot of our leakage is from our downtown port. You know just for temporary. We'll call it temporary. Horn: Which 1017 Brad 3ohnson: On Guy's parking lot. It's a very good location. A lot of people there turn right and never come into downtown so that's a good way. That's the highest traffic point in Carver County. Right' there. And that would be a good point to have a board. And that one would be designed that we could co-op and would be coming soon to downtown Chanhassen. Okay, Market Square. Again, the concept 'is' these are boards that we purchase. Now how all this fits together, that's one way. So these would be, or it could say shop downtown Chanhassen. b4hatever it is, that's how we co-op it. Co-oping means the center itself is paying for the artwork to do the poster. And we've done all the basic stuff. Then we're encouraging the merchants to buy space on these signs with their names. So if a board costs $500.00 a month, we're suggesting that there's incentive dollars which are supplied by ourselves and the HRA to encourage people to put money up to make the program work. Are you following me? You've got three kinds of dollars that are being spent. One kind of dollar is being spent just to put the program together. The program together is, there are basic elements to the program are we're going to design. These are things that just cost' money; If anybody's ever been in advertising, you know it just costs money to design something so this particular one is, it's about time that would go into like the Minneapolis Star and Tribune and then where you see those little - squares. That's i.ndividual store advertising. So we're ~aying for the cost of development and then the placement of the ad and the banner at the top. You see and then each guy buys a piece. Okay., that's co-oping it so it costs them a lot less to do it. We're putting together a, what do you call it? A brochure. What's the insert they call? In the paper. · Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 22 Horn: Flyer. Brad Johnson: Flyer, yeah. There's a better work but I can't remember it. That will be like this and that wlll have on the cover, the colors will be more of the color of Market Square. You know green- No, I'm kidding. It will be this color and gray. So it will have the colors of Market Square but it will be a flyer that will be put together, it will be a full size paper. Flyer. -Tabloid we call it. Full tabloid and it will have a front cover, back cover and it will have an inside and it will talk about what's going on at the Grand Opening. It will have special events because the day of the Grand'Opening, which will be the 14th. That's the special. It will be a week long promotion starting about the 5th. Right after election day. And it will run until the 14th. The reason we're doing that is because of noise. Too many people advertising before then. So it will be information about it. Information about the center. And then information about what's going on. You know sort of a flyer. That will go out to about 60,000 People plus all the people, 60,000 households plus all the people who work in Chanhassen. See one of the problems of reaching Chanhassen people is our working force doesn't read the paper because they don't live here. I would say only about 10~ of the people that-work in Chanhassen live here. So they don't. So you have to figure out how to let them know that something. There will always be coupons, free things. Festival during their Grand Opening... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Chmiel: I like that one part on that one you're holding in your hand. The word downtown. Brad 3ohnson: Yeah, we use the word downtown. Workman: Doesn't that sound weird? Shop in downtown Chanhassen. Brad $ohnson: The main things that we're doing are, we're using the about time and then also we're going to target each area and tell each area how long it takes to get into Chanhassen. And show them how to get here. So you have a map. Peopie don't know this but this design here is a map and each of these will tell how long it takes. You know this is a quadrant. Like this could be Tonka Bay and it will have a time in here. Remember the map they used for the Mega Mall that you see in the paper. It's the same kind of idea. Ail roads lead to Chanhassen kind of thing and we're developing. The four aspects of the program are one, the tabloid that will go to the world twice. In addition to that, every week Festival is sending out to 60,000 households another tabloid. Ours will go in the paper. Their's are going by ad...so you"ll get it twice. You're going to get a lot of stuff. 60,000 households reaches well into Glen Lake. Ail the way to Waconia. Down to ChaskaJ Everywhere. The next thing that we'd be doing is the billboards. We'd like to have a billboard program and we kind of need, sort of the our money. That's the money we're putting up for incentive plus the city money to pull off the billboard campaign because we need to feed that. It's-a fairly expensive thing to do but we think just getting a billboard down on, we get the biliboard at Guy's we'lI cali it, is free if we can buy 5 other signS. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 23 And that to me is the main reason for doing this in many ways. Because our work alone just to do a billboard is about $2,500.00 so you've got to do more than one billboard and then Naegele gives you one free. Portable one. We'll have as another part of the program, and probably an ad or whatever in that Thursday Minneapolis Star and Tribune. Here we're just trying to promote to really the market out here. You can buy into that. In addition to that on the 14th, WCCO radio will be out here Live from Market Square. Or wherever and we're setting that up. And then each guy buys a part of that. So what we're doing on the WCCO radio is we'll write the lyrics so if there's a 60 second spot, 20 seconds of it will talk about shopping in downtown Chanhassen. Okay. And let's say it's $500.00 for that spot. Then we'll pay $200.00 of it. And we'll get our message. We, I mean that's Market Square and the City. That's what our contribution would be. And then the merchant has to pay $300.00 and they'll interview the merchant. And if you wanted to, we could have just a general one just talking about downtown Chanhassen. If somebody wanted to be there and be on the radio. All we're trying to do with radio and billboards is it's called an intrusive median. You can't get away from it. You're listening to WCCO Saturday morning or all day, you can't 1 get away from it. If you don't listen to WCCO, you won't. That's the one that happens to reach the most people. The other one is that a billboard you can't avoid. The paper, all this other stuff that we mail directly, you don't see. That's why when you do your advertising, you.put your signs out Tom, you're everywhere in the city now I can tell. It's intrusive. I have no choice but seeing it but if you're advertising in the paper, I never know you're existing. I mean you're doing a good job on your signs. Workman: You haven't seen nothing yet. Brad Johnson: I know but that's why i't works. So what we're asking for then is that we have a budget anticipation of about $50,000.00, of which $20,000.00 is just stuff to develop-it and buy the tabloid. Then we're going to encourage people to co-op. $o what we'd do then is we have incentive dollars that the center's putting up and we're asking you to put up 5 each. We'll take that money and div it out to make it a good deal to be in there. And the same thing can go for the merchants that advertise in here. This is for them a pretty good deal because it's so inexpensive to be piggy backing on what we're trying to accomplish. Horn: Most of them are going to do that? Brad 3ohnson: We've got to reach to them. I just got the work. What we're trying to do is get the thing done and the program done and then we reach them. They buy it and so let's say we say, okay. It will cost you $100.00 to be in here but the city, not Just the center. Market Square and the City need to put the incentive dollars and we'll contribute half of the cost. Horn: Have you presented this concept to the Chamber yet?. Brad Johnson: I presented it to the guy who's in charge of the Chamber. Merchant's Association and he runs McDonald's. He thought it was a great deal. Okay, good idea. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 24 Horn: So do you think most of the merchants are behind it? Brad 3ohnson: They may or may not. You know the merchants in this town. Some of them don't spend money. Some don'.t, we've got merchants over in there that don't beIieve in advertising. But the guys that we've talked to, like the program. It just becomes such a tremendously good'buy so if they're spending $50.00 in a week, this is a better reach for 'them than anything that they can do that's going out to 60,000 people. Most of them are just in the Chanhassen paper. And that's the idea. So we would offer two, and we're talking about a relatively minor share of the overall budget but that's the idea. And there are incentive dollars that we can use any way we want to encourage people to advertise. And the same incentives can be given to any merchant in town. And then we'd end up with this billboard thing which I think is a real good idea and that can be saying, come into downtown Chanhasmen. That's the idea, to get people down here. Now we have not had a formal presentation to the Chamber because the Chamber tells me that this is not a Chamber deal. It should go to the Chamber's, what do they Call it? Merchants Retail Committee which is what McDonald's Chairman. Gene, iyeah. He knows this is a good deal. I mean it's a good buy. If they buy advertising. The real difference is there are people in town, believe me, that just don't advertise. Horn: Everybody in the Square will be part of this? Brad $ohnson: Oh yeah. They're contributing $20,000.00-. They'll contribute $40,000.00 of it...Market Square is going to advertise aggressively. We'll have a flyer that goes out once a month to households. Every month. A lot of coupons. Lot of free deals. A lot of, and the grocery store is really kind of interesting. The reason they have to do that is how would you like to have you know, 20, 50, $60,000.00 worth of fruit that spoils. Nobody comes into your store. They have to have traffic or they're dead. And you walk into. any grocery store and it's got the fruit looks kind of poor, that means their traffic is poor and they're holding it too long. And you go into Cub or a Rainbow, they have so much traffic, and that's the theory behind it, tha~ their fruit looks good. So the request is for $5,000.00 to participate in. In addition to that, you'd all participate in the Grand Day Opening which will be the 14th of November. Which will be a ribbon cutting. You know the whole works one more time and it will be done with Market Square so we'll have kind of a real activity going on on the 14th. Bohn: Which is a Saturday? Brad 3ohnson: Yeah. Balloon rides and stuff, like that. It's right in the middle. It's usually a good time to do something because it's between the elections and Thanksgiving and before the world takes off. Horn: My only concern with this is, what kind of precedent we're doing.. Have we done this before? Bohn: Yeah, we do it for'the 4th of 3uly. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 25 Horn: Well I know we do the 4th of July but this is a little different than that. Plus the premise that Todd brought up is that we can justify this based on the fact that' it's the whole Chanhassen merchants. I guess I'm not convinced that we know that at this point. And-my third concern is the-fact that we just, this stuff just kind of trickles into us. You know we didn't know up front going in that this was going to be part of the plan. Those are my. Brad Johnson: Which? Horn: This request. · Gerhardt: It's a request. You don't have to grant it. If it wasn't a part of Market Square, we do not have to contribute. They're looking for assistance to get more people involved in it.. Brad Johnson: Yeah. We'd use the dollars primarily to encourage co-oping and getting more activity going and we'd go'directly, use the' dollars to encourage our local merchants to participate. Now local merchants include, Market Square basically represents half of your total merchants that acknowledge this so. Gerhardt: It's going to cost money... Brad Johnson: He raises a good example. He's thinking about buying a billboard and you know how Bernie likes to spend money. So we're going to contribute $500.00 and Toro's going to spend $500.00 so he doesn't have to spend any money. Okay. We being the City and us and then Toro buys the other half. The same could be for anybody else. The other area that is kind of critical is to'get this billboard campaign together. Clark, I think you did contribute to the Grand Opening at Town Square. You contributed to the ground breaking at Market Square.. You've done this continuously. Horn: We've contributed to Market Square already I think was the point. Brad Johnson: But we kept that down to about $100.00. It wasn't very much money. Wasn't it? That was a real. Ashworth: I would have said $500.00. Brad Johnson: It was a real cheap one. It looked like a big. deal but I got everything free except for the sound system. You paid for the sound system and it was very minor. Horn: Well I don't, those.are my only concerns with it. I think it's a good concept and I think knowing that we would go in this up front and all the merchants were behind it, I'd feel much more comfortable. Brad Johnson: Well I have to sell them on getting behind it. I've got. to, you just tell me Brad, we wanC, before we write you a check, we want some evidence that they were approached and they had a chance to participate. I'll do that part. Housing and Redevelopment'Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 26 Gerhardt: I think, from what I hear the HRA, you could delineate out more...$5,000.O0 couid be spent that represents maybe two biliboards and just say something about shop downtown Chanhassen. Is that what you want...? I'm saying if it's more of a broad base thing that benefits, asking people to come down. Horn: That was your premise in presenting Brad Johnson: And that's why we did this. Let's say that you sponsored this, which has nothing to do with Market. It's the participation by the other participants. Gerhardt: So you're saying, give me a bill for two billboards. Show me exactly. Brad Johnson: I can do it right down to the, because we're just trying to create activity. Okay. If you want one WCCO spot that interviews the Chamber person. Not you guys. I mean just somebody talking about downtown Chanhassen. We can do all those things so your money almost looks 100~ going to what we're trying to do. We're just trying to create a bigger pool of money, i. Ashworth: Everybody doesn't have to. Again, when we did the Grand Opening for the hotel, I mean we paid for the bus and the tour thing for people to see the Arboret. um and lunch and it was just a nice gesture. Horn: Okay, so we don't have to worry about precedent I guess. What are the other commissioners comments? Workman: I think we want'to, I think there'~ going to be enough about going to downtown Chanhassen. Like I say, it's kind Of really different to see come and shop in downtown Chanhassen. While you could do that before, there wasn't a whole lot here to shop for. I think it's a small, being on the Board with the Chamber, but not having talked to all of them, I know that they're really anxious about this. I think something needs to be done in coordination to wake up the rest of the people to come in here so 'by the time we get the stop lights up, they'll really be needed. But I think it's a small investment for trying to get this off, all this off on the right foot. I think it will spill over like we planned so all the other businesses, even if they don't advertise. Brad 3ohnson: Yeah, I think it will be a real effort to..ithat's what Todd and I talked about. I think I can document that we'll spend it on downtown. And we did change some stuff, the word downtown. It was Market Square and now it's downtown. That kind of stuff and changing it and anticipating those kinds of questions. Ashworth: Don, what's your impression? Chmiel: My impression is that I don't think we should be in the-business to do advertising for businesses within the city. Whether it be the City or HRA. And I know that we go along with some of the other features that we do. This is a little different kind of thing than what we've done ever before. This kind of promotional activity. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 27 Brad Johnson: It's the same thing we did with Market Square. We did it with Town Square. I mean we did all these things. The budget for Town Square was $5,OOO.OO. Chmiel: But we didn't go through this kind of advertising thoug.h did we? Brad Johnson: Yeah, we hired a PR agency. Maybe you don't remember that one. We had balloons and then we pushed down the building-over there and all that kind of stuff. You guys participated in that. Same price. Smaller budget. Chmiel: Well I think if we know that the merchants are going to participate within it. Brad Johnson: That I assure you. Chmiel: Then I'd say fine. But they'd have to participate before the check is issued. Horn: Charlie. Robbins: Well just the way it's structured, it maEes sense. I see this, since I'm involved with the Lion's within Chanhassen and we do quite a bit of things in Chanhassen. And we hit on the merchants. You want to call the word contribution. To me I just see this as just making a contribution. Whether it be for advertising. We could just as well contribute the 5 grand to buy party favors and do everything at the Grand Opening. It's still, somebody's paying for it somehow. Whether it goes to the advertising. Whether it goes towards the Grand Opening.- Whether it goes toward hot air balloon ride or whatever prizes, it's still the same $5,000.00 no matter which way it's set aside. To me it"s a contribution from HRA to X. X meaning the coordinator person for the downtown to get the deal going for 5 grand. $o to me, do it. Horn: Jim. Bohn: I have just one thing about, is the sign going to say downtown or is it going to say Market Square? -- Brad Johnson: It will say Market Square and it will say downtown because you're co-oping. You know they've spent a lot of money developing that part and then you take a sign like this that says, come into downtown or shop downtown but the streamer would be that. We'd only make one of these and that will be the standard billboard. Okay. The Market Square is paying $2,500.00 to get that printed. And what we would do then is put the banners on to change that and that's what I was trying to get at. Here is one attempt, and I'm not saying it's a perfect one. That was one attempt and this would be the one, be kind of a neutral one a~d that would be the one that we'd put down here. Another' example would be this one here where, you know I can target your money Just to assist th'ese guys. I'll go in and say, well this is only $50.O0...and they pay for this part so your money is just going into here and that's just... Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 28 Chmiel: I guess I don't, the reason ! say that Brad is ali we're saying is Market Square in Chanhassen. ~ like the word downtown Chanhassen. And that's what I'd like to see really done. Even though you labei it Market Square up on top but I like the downtown approach. Brad Johnson: We can say Market Square, downtown Chanhassen. It's about time. I can do that. Okay? We're just trying to solve the problem. Robbins: ~ was going to Say, ! think just judging by -the .conversation, more than likely this will take place, irregardless if we contribute. 'It ' will be on a small scale. Ail we're really doing is we're making a contribution to the merchants. We're giving them 5 grand. Brad Johnson: And I'm going to go to the merchants and say, guys. I've got a deal you cannot turn down. Okay. The city or we are going to contribute this hall's $100.00, you pay $50.00 and you're in. So now I've doubled that. See I'm just trying to. Robbins: We're getting more bang for the buck. I move acceptance to contribute $5,000.00. Wot kman: Second. Robbins moved, Norkman seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority contribute $5,000.00.to Harket Square Partnership for promoting the Grand Opening. All voted in favor except Chmiel who opposed and the motion carried. Horn: Just one recommendation to staff in the future when we have items like this, I think it would be good to give us some history behind the type of request and whether we've done it before and to what degree. It would help us in our decision making. Brad 3ohnson: Thank you gentlemen. Hold'the 14th open. Horn: November? Brad Johnson: November yeah. In the morning. APPROVAL OF REVISED PURCHASE AGREEMENT WITH GARY KIRT ('HANUS FACILITY). Horn: Any questions or comments? I think we've been over it several times. Ashworth: By the way, I did meet with Gary Brown. We sat in my office for more than an hour. I went through each aspect. Why it is this was going through and he thanked me for taking the time and said that looked good and that was it. Horn: Okay, staff's recommendation is approval. Jim made a motion to approve. Is there a second? Nor kman: Second. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 24, i992 - Page 29 Horn: Any other discussion or questions? Bohn moved, Norkman seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority approve the revisad Purchase Agreement Nith Gary Kirt for the Hanus facility as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. LIBRARY LOCATIONm DISCUSSION ITEM. Horn: We've discussed this several times. -I think you pointed out here that our request last time was, we preferred the Pauly/Pony/Pryzmus site. Ashworth: What I'd like to be able to do is move this to the next step. The plan that was done by Jeff is a schematic. I think it's nice. But he didn't have an opportunity to visit with the library consultaht. Talk about phasing so it doesn't really show in there is this, how big is it? What could be done with the first phase. Second phase. We really' didn't have anything as far as contours. Parking stalls really weren't defined as to the number of those. We need to have something that we can say yes, this is what we want to build. I did have an opportunity to, or actually Todd did, finally this afternoon we played telephone tag for this past week and Jeff would be willing to take it that next step which Todd did not talk to him about price but I think it's only fair that we pay him a reasonable amount. I don't know what that will.be but I'm sure that it would be less than BRW, Hoisington, or Barton-Aschman so anyway, what we would ask is your agreement that we should ask Jeff to be the one that takes it to that next step. Bohn: Would that include the Old depot? Ashworth: We could have him take a look at that. I brought in Al. Klingelhutz by the way and Jack Barnes and showed both of-those, the.plan that had been prepared by Jeff and they asked what the next step would be and I said, well if the HRA wants to move forward with this. I mean if this comes about, it's going to mean we're going to have to acquire your property because even, there's no w~y around it. I mean the building goes on top of the existing building. And so I talked with the attorney on Monday and asked him to assign an appraiser to do an appraisal for the property and hopefully I'll have that back by our next meeting. And hopefully Jeff will again, you're not going to have much more than a site plan but at least it will be a scaled site plan and it will be one in which you know the size of the library.and you have identified a first phase versus a second phase and number of parking stalls and access. The other one was just a little too sketchy. So it was taken to the library board but they really didn't understand it and I can understand that. Horn: Okay. What do you need from us tonight? Ashworth: Well, I don't think really anything. If you're in agreement that you'd like to see Jeff Farmakes be the one who helps take it to the second step. Horn: Yes. Chmiel: Yep. Housing and RedeveLopment Authority September 24, 1992 - Page 30 Horn: We all agree I think. APPROVAL OF BILLS: Chmiel moved, Workman seconded to approve the Housing and Redevelopment Authority Bills. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Robbins moved, Workman seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried; Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director Prepared by Nann Opheim