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1992 11 02CHANHASSEN HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY REGULAR MEETING NOVEMBER 2, 1992 Chairman Bohn called the meeting to order 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS pRESENT: Tom Workman, Mike Mason, Don Chmiel, and Jim Bohn MEMBERS ABSENT= Charlie Robbins STAFF PRESENT-' Don Ashworth, Executive Director; and Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive Director PUBLIC HEARING: PR~OSED L~d~B) S~M_E TO T~d~ET. Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to call the public hearing to order. All voted in favor and the motion carried. - The public hearing was called to order. Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing ~as closed. (Taping of the meeting began at this point in the discussion.) Chmiel: I would move the resolution authorizing to dispose of the property. Mason: I second it. Bohn: It's been moved and seconded. Is there discussion? Chmiel moved, Mason seconded to approve the Resolution authorizing the HRA to sell the land described in Attachment #4. All voted in favor and the motion carried. APPROVAL OF MI~RJTES: Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority dated September 24, 1992 as presented. All voted in favor except Mason ~ho abstained and the motion carried. CONSIDER RPPROV~ OF TARGET REDEVELOPMENT CONTRACT. Gerhardt: The next one is, we sort of, Don gave a presentation on how the negotiations came about and where we've come. Where we're at. And included in your packet was the Planning report that dealt with the development contract, PUD agreement. I've highlighted what the estimated assessments are against the site and what we would get based on the HRA's 3 year policy worth of increments of $951,000.00. The $200,000.00 in assessments would allow Target to use $781,000.00 for land write down. They have asked for the total 3 years worth of assistance to make their project a go. Attached is the private redevelopment contract as drafted by Holmes and Graven, which is similar to other agreements that the HRA has approved in the past. One exception is we haven't established a minimum market value on this facility. In lieu of that we have written Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, lgg2 - Page 2 into the document, once we have Target's signature on this, in 1995-96- 97, even if they don't build this facility, they will pay the City $327,000.00 a year in taxes. That's how committed ! think they are that they will... Chmiel: I'd just like to make a quick comment, of which to really support the TIF district and I'd really like Mr. Stoltz to take this back to the County Board and make them aware of the fact that if we didn't have those amount of dollars within our TIF district to assist, Target locating within the City of Chanhassen, this project would have never taken place. I don't think. Hopefully the Board can understand some of the reasonings why we do have the TIF in itself. And I think we can look forward to a long, trusting relationship between Target and the City of Chanhassen. And eventually the County will enjoy those taxing dollars. Gerhardt: I would make the recommendation that you approve the ProJect Redevelopment Agreement with Dayton Hudson Corporation and their request for $981,000.00 in special assessment and land write down assistance and would ask for a motion on that recommendation. If you go along with staff's report. Mason: I'd move approval of Private Redevelopment Agreement with Dayton Hudson Corporation as stated by staff. · Bohn: Is there a second? Chmiel: Second. Bohn: It's been moved and seconded. Is there any comment? Mason: Only to concur with what Don said about the relationship between the City and Target. I know there are times that both sides I suspect were pretty upset with one another but the bottom line here is, I think things are going to work out to the benefit of both Target and the City and I think that was the goal for both sides. Mason moved, Chmiel seconded to approve the Private. Redevelopment Agreement with Dayton Hudson Corporation and their request for $981,000. in special assessment and land write do~n assistance. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSIDER APPROVAL OF THE ISSUANCE OF A LIMITED REVENUE TAX INCREH~?4T NOTE, Gerhardt: I don't know if you want to stick around'for the next one. This is where the HRA will guarantee to pay you your $320,000.00. Target Representatives: Ah yeah. We'll sit down for that one. Gerhardt: This is, in most of our agreements 'in the past. they've been included in the Redevelopment Contract. 3ohn Dean has requested that separate action be taken on this one. That the HRA would guarantee repayment to Target in lieu that they show proof of making tax payment '96 and '97 I 'ye each year. That we would rebate their taxes in 1995, . Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 3 outlined the payment schedule on here. If there are any questions, I can go through that. If not, staff would recommend approval of Resolution authorizing the issuance of limited revenue tax increment note to Dayton Hudson Corporation for no more than Chmiel: So moved. Ashworth: This is a little different but basically accomplishes the same thing as the contract with Empak, Roberts Automatic, well most... Chmiel: This is consistent with everything else we've done within. Bohn: Do I hear a second? Mason: Yes you do. Second. Bohn: Any questions? Chmiel moved, Bohn seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority approve a Resolution authorizing the issuance of Limited Revenue Tax Increment Note to Dayton Hudson Corporation with total payments not to exceed $783,817.00 and total payments ~ould only be paid after proof has been provided that the taxes ~ere paid by the corporation. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Dick Brooks: I just want to say one thing here. That Todd and Don and I and everybody, we've had our differences but at all times they were very professional. Don and both Todd and I think that we've walked away with a mutual respect and you can be assured that your city staff protects this city in every single area. So thank you again. Chmiel: Thanks for the comments. Mason: I think we know that but it's good to hear it. Ashworth: Maybe you'd like to take and should-I go ahead and handle that or should we go on to the County item? Chmiel: Okay, let's do. Why don't we. Mason: Okay, I'd move the agenda to get the County portion of the business out of the w.ay. Chmiel: Second that. Mason moved, Chmtel seconded to amend the agenda to consider item 7 prior to item 6. All voted in favor and the motion carried. CONSIDER TAX INCREMENT P~AN AHENDHENT$. Ashworth: I just handed this to Dick so he really hasn't had an opportunity to read it. But I have gone down to both the County Board and to the School Board each year for the last 5 years. During that time frame there's been really one question that they've continued to ask and Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 4 that is, when is your existing tax increment district... We're at the point in time where we made a plan amendment from a year ago. We included in there 101. It think we had the central park. It really, the amendments did not add that much additional time. So we maybe moved from a '95-'96 potential ending date to an additional half a year. When we did that there really weren't that many eyebrows that were raised at either the School Board or at the County Board. Now to make a plan amendment effective, you have to do just that. You have to take and authorize that your plan be redrafted'to include any new work that you're looking at carrying out. So although the Commission has looked at the details associated with the conference center. We've gone through a construction manager. We've looked at how this is going to help the overall downtown. It's going to take and fill in kind of a void that represents one of the last things that we're doing. We've talked about constructing a County library. Including that in the plan. Senior housing has been talked about a little bit but not to any great degree. To effectuate those type of changes. The changes that we've talked about during this past year, you need to authorize staff to prepare a plan amendment that would actually do that. Well it will be at that point in time and when I do go down to the County Board or to the School District, they're going to take a look at this and they're going to see that these plan amendments are adding the additional years and putting this up into the timeframe of '98 or '99 associated with that plan. I think it's fair to say that both the County Commissioners and the School Soard will be distressed knowing that dollars that they were looking to coming in in '95-96, now may be put off until '98 or '99 and who knows. This does not have to be World War III. I think if you simply authorize a plan amendment and say, let's go do the pet projects we want to get done, I think that the County Board is going to be very disturbed at us. But again, it doesn't have to be presented in that fashion. There's some alternatives here. One of the things that Dick and I have looked at, for several years, has been what is the impact back on the County. We know that when the tax increment district ceases, that we are going to pay into fiscal disparities too. We're currently collecting $5 million. We're going to lose roughly $2 million. We're going to lose what would be fiscal disparities distribution because we're seen as an industrially rich community. And as a result of that, we're looking to eventually having on today's dollars, about $2.4 million that would be available for the County to draw. Well, they're about 25~ of the tax base which represents then a loss for .them of $600,000. per year. What Roger and i and Dick have talked about is, is there a way in which we can accelerate those dollars back to the County. That we can guarantee that the County gets those dollars and that we don't have to create World War III. That really would be our recommendation. Include in the plan the construction of County roads. And set that, I'm recommending $600,000.00 per year for the years '96 thru 2000. Dick is going to say that's not going to get the job done for me. I'd like to have you guys put more than that in there and I don't want to take away Dick's presentation. And Roger is here I'm assuming to talk about some of the county roads but if you look at it, the worst roads in our community are the county roads. We've done a pretty decent job of keeping up with the local roads. Market, Lake Drive, West 78th Street, downtown. I mean most of our roadways are in fairly decent shape. The roads that really are the worst, County County 117, Lyman 81vd, are all county roads. 8ut what Dick is going to Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 5 share with you is the County just does not have the money to get those done. Now maybe I should just stop there and kind of let them talk but we looked at similar principal as it deals with the School District. Because again when I gO to the School District, they are similarly going to take and yell foul. One of the biggest differences with the School District is it's such a small amount, as I mentioned, that the net amount. If we get rid of the tax increment district in '95-96, which now has moved to at least '96, and if you want to carry out these other projects that we've talked about now for the last year, we're up into '98-99. The school district gets such a small amount of their funding from the local property tax that by making what I'll call as a minor contribution back over to the SchooI District, you're actually putting more dollars back to them than they would have gotten had the district gone away. And in their case, I think that the number was about $300,000. to $400,000. The School District is looking at tt from a IittIe different standpoint. They're saying we're going to have to come back for a referendum. We come back for a referendum. It will be at least a 10~ or 15~ property tax increase. If it is that 15~ property tax increase, what's going to happen then is the taxes in the tax increment district will aIso go up 15~. Well that's another $750,000. So they're asking for really three things from us, which I think are reasonable. One, a pass back of what I caIia minor portion of our current tax increment collections. $300,000.-$400,000. Agreement that if the referendum passes and if there is a 15~ increase in the overall tax increment collections, that that $750,000.00 also be sent back. And thirdIy, which they don't really have to ask us to do but they hadn't asked us to do. It was really Dave Porkorny and I who in sitting down with them and looking at what Springsted came up and said this is kind of nutsy. I mean you're not, you're hitting everybody hard in these early years and when these tax Increment districts really come on line, I mean this thing should be inverted. You should take advantage of those dollars in that 2001-2002 timeframe. I mean that's where you should have your biggest principal and interest. And so they would do that. If we would agree to those three points, they would agree that ail of the dollars would be used for property tax reductions and they would put that as a part of an agreement with us. Chmiel: If we went to World War III, would this stimulate the economy any? Ashworth: Well unfortunately, and I think I said it as best I could. The County and the School District do not have veto power over your decision that you may make to make a plan amendment but you can be assured, Ember Richgots and Ann Rests will vote and hear about this and quite truthfully I anticipate this year, there is going to be, that the counties as a group are coming back in the legislature and they're looking for some modified legislation. They would like to take and see tax increment continue to exist but do it in an abatement process versus the current tax increment collection process by cities. And I think tn the aggregate the counties are going to be supporting that position- Dick: I think some will. I've heard that same thing. I don't really agree but I've seen the plan that the association is pushing. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 6 Ashworth: I would really like to be in a position to, when the legislature starts thumping on people, to basically be in a position of saying hey, I don't know what you're talking about but out in Chanhassen we work pretty good with our County and with our School District and here's proof. Chmiel: I agree with that philosophy. Here again, I mean this is a prime example what you're seeing today with Target. How other'ways can you do this? There aren't any other ways. If you don't have those amount of dollars, you can't work. Work accordingly to draw that kind of business within. Eventually that's going to be up to a million dollars a year in taxes. And how can you stimulate economy within the State of Minnesota if you don't have this kind of thing to work with? Because everybody is just going to be fighting everybody else and no one can cut and yet those kinds of businesses that locate in Chanhassen would just as soon go to South Dakota and North Dakota and get away from the taxes that we have. So to stimulate the business within, I think the legislature would be nuts to make those changes. Providing you're doing it as we have been doing it within the city. Not all cities are doing it. The core cities have done it. Just like in a memorandum that the City of St. paul with the hotels. And it's caused...and I 'know about that because I used to have St. Paul/Minneapolis as my main beat. But you know, they just can't see the trees for the forest and that's real. ly what the whole damn problem is. Ashworth: I should mention that Don and I have sat in on a number of the meetings with the School District. I guess even with the County in trying to look at ways in which we could again jointly work. So I think that this is a great recommendation so I hope they will consider. Would you like to have the County make a presentation? Dick: Do you mind if I just sit here? Chmiel: Sure. This is informal. Dick: I wanted to just take a few minutes to point out how important this is to the County. I don't want to make a small light of it.. I know that the city fixes a lot of projects and a lot of things and Target's a good example and a county blacktop road compared to a Target store, I know who wins those arguments. 8ut it is real important to servicing, from the city standpoint, and the Eastern Transportation Study and the population and the demographics thing, you are all aware of. The growth is here and I took our CIP plan on a construction loan which was done .last April. And went through it and looked at the projects on the eastern end and in particular Chanhassen because I was addressing those, and then due to meetings I've had with Don and Roger and the City of Chaska and through the School District. The whole thing. Roger went back and using a different methodology, looked at the needs to the year 2000 because their CIP only goes to '97. Both ways one looks at those, the needs are about an increase of about $2.3 million to $2.5 million a year over and above our normal resurfacing, construction on certain county roads...replacement. Just in construction'. There's no way that the County will be able to swing increases. I'm just telling you, it isn't going to happen because we just won't be able to raise that kind of Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 7 money. Roger has done a large plan and I didn't want to get into the details of that and although it's available, I think that's maybe another time where we can submit it to Don. It's more of a staff deal but the key is, we have enough facts and enough figures and enough information to show that that need for this road construction is there. And I think a good example is close to 17 to Chaska. That little segment. So what we're doing is little piecemeal stuff here and there. Just close that one north/south corridor and everybody went absolutely nuts for a long period of time just, and that's only one of them and we've got a lot of them on the eastern end that, I mean something has to be done with them. Jurisdictionally, while some of them may change. Some of them may become streets, vice versa, a lot of the things I'm talking about now though are clearly a County responsibility and we're not trying to shurk it. I'm just telling you the funding isn't there to do it the way it should be done. It just isn't there. Chmiel: Dick, why isn't it there? Dick: There's no way we can raise $2.3 million on the taxes. It'd be about a 20~ hit. Politically they won't do it. The County Board just won't do it. Chmiel: The only concern I have a little bit. Chanhassen is really paying their fair share as far as total taxes are concerned to the County. Dick -' Yes. Yes. Chmiel: And when will the County or the Board decide to have the same kind of taxes throughout the balance of the County? We all know that the balance, most of the county is not consistent with the taxes as it is here. Dick: I don't exactly what you mean there. In the amount of taxes paid on property tax? Chmiel: Right. Dick: Yeah. Well it will all go on value. Chmiel: I know but the values are not all rated the same accordingly. Dick: No, and they won't be either. I mean a home here, if you 'lifted it up and moved it 20 miles west, you'd lose x thousand. I don't know how much but that's the market. Chmiel: Even the true value is what should be out there. Have those all been brought up? From what I understand and I've talked to a lot of people, they're not. Dick: That's surprises me. I mean the sales ratio stuff, we're indicating over 90 in all of the jurisdictions. We only had a few overall tax increases which will be an indication that sale ra%io's off. It was bad about 4-5 years ago, no doubt about it. Especially in the Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 8 western end was not what you're getting on a sales ratio up where it should be. Chmiel: Well it's the same thing with some of the people who have indicated, and I realize that property values aren't quite the same. Per acre as what it is here. Dick: No, quite different. Chmiel: Yeah. And I think that if this is being done, then of course I don't feel that but with people who I've talked to in different areas have said, geez. Why don't I just go and build. I could build there and put the same house as I can within your town and pay less total dollar taxes in comparison. Dick: That's true though. Chmiel: To a point it should be true but they should-also meet that equal value portion. Dick: That's correct. The thing that, the intangible on the assessment part, and I should have Orltn can address this much better than I but the location. The site location and the proximity, all of those factors are the same bricks and mortar. Exactly the same, have quite an influencing effect as you go west. I mean you go out to New Germany and I mean you're at least 20~ I'll bet for the same home and you can't sell it out there. You just, that's like...there's indians out there. It just doesn't fly. Chmiel: Yeah. I've been looking just sort of like at lake property even within the county and prices as to what values they have on them in comparison to some of the other areas. You know for what they're asking for those properties. Now I don't know whether they're getting them or not but they're inflated. But I'll bet you their taxing, dollars is way down there. Dick: That, it could be. I don't know but that's possible. Chmiel: And this is what some of the inconsistencies that I see. Dick: Lake Waconia for example should start to approximate some of them here. I would think. Some of those other lakes, probably not. Depending on that you're looking at. But on fha transportation plan, I think the need, and we can get you all a fax and I'm looking more at it philosophically than anything else. Future financing is, like I say... the ability that we could bond for it and pay for'it over long. term. Again with the growth, the long term is kind of long. This isn't a one shot and it will all go away unless the bond issue is quite large. And funding that extra $2 million, I just don't, I really do not...the County Board being able to do that. I'm just telling you that. I don't see it. $o we have to try to look for revenue somewhere. The Feds is drying up. The State is broke. Not broke but... You people probably see at the city level...so those sources, our ability either of bonding it or taxing it, other sources it doesn't look real great. So what I'm here for is, Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, lgg2 - Page g as Don indicated, the district you have a lot of projects. We have been working in our County I think as strong as anywhere on coordination with local units of government. The schools, the city. Even townships. And the county and I think as time goes on, you will only see more of that because you will die alone. You won't make it. If you put a fence up around here, you will not survive nor will the county or will anyone .else and I think we have to really promote that. The road transportation that is all of the citizens. Our county, city. It's going to be impacted. I mean Roger knows and Don knows and maybe of you do know from that Eastern Transportation Study, it's really kind of scarey what's going to happen. The housing and subdivisions are going in...but 600 would be more than you could get even if the district all turned back... But that's just this year or whatever year you picked. We've seen a need for a long period of time. We just picked, now we start, that's where I maybe disagree in trying to look at a need of a little more than the $600,000. that is being the same. I strongly urge you, whether you agree with roads or not, do not turn back the fiscal disparities if you don't have to, any sooner than you have to. Certainly from a county perspective would like to share some of that and we would make it very clear and we could work that out, that would be clearly for roads and it'd be clearly for Chanhassen roads and clearly legal and whatever other parameters you'd like. I see the roads as a real important thing for all people. And Roger, we had Roger come along in case you had some questions on actual roads. He is the expert on that. I was just looking at the ability of the county to have some funding mechanisms through the HRA to help construct those roads and that's really why I'm here. Roger Gustafson: And I should comment on funding and getting back to why we...have money for these roads. The State Aid Highway system- dates back some 35 years. The Metro County engineers...and has no dynamics to it to address road areas. And also funds, we generate in the metro area were. 50~ of the dollar that is distributed statewide. Okay. And of that distribution, 84~ of the dollars go out of state so we are really contributing to the rest of the state. None of argue that we should be paying off 50~ of the dollars but obviously...$4~. So we are working on an archaic system that has been under attack by us for a good number of years because of the rural control. The Engineers Association frankly and the legislature and key committees in transportation...start getting our foot in the door and start seeing some changes. The other point I'd like to talk about, as far as this...I'm a proponent of whatever the financing package has to be, a combination or alone or whatever, that obviously's going to have to extend for some number of years but I'd like to see it done in a way that would fund a majority of improvements to the...so in fact we are continuing the trail development in the future... conflict that we already have on CR 17... Dick: ...I see the roads lacking. I mean not keeping pace. I mean Audubon's a good example. I mean 3 years ago who would have foreseen, maybe you would have but we would move that quickly and in looking at the portion north of TH 5 now on TH 41, I mean that whole, and we're still back here on CR 117. And that's what scarey about our ability to keep up with that. If there was a guarantee longer term source, it would be easier to bond and as Roger said, package them to get something done quickly. As long as we knew some revenue was there. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 10 Roger Gustafson: That's parallel to utilities again. I keep harping the roads are nothing more than a utility and you put the utilities in for this development, I mean you put the road in so the development has good utilities service rather than coming afterwards when everybody's house is built. Bohn: Is CR 17 moved? Further east than where it comes to Chaska? Roger Gustafson: No, the corridor is established from 17 south to Trunk Highway 5. And we have right-of-way for 4 lanes of road. $o what will happen there is they'll...2 lanes on the east side of the existing roadway but it will be right where it is today. Gerhardt: I think you're talking about now right? In Chaska. The 4 way stop in Chaska you're talking about? Roger Gustafson: Oh Chaska, I'm sorry. I was thinking coming to Chanhassen here, south of TH 5. In Chaska, south of the project that we just completed. Ne plan to now shift that road to the east. To the flatlands that are out there. Gerhardt: It's all 2 lane though? No 4 lane. Roger Gustafson: It will be built as an urban section that can be striped to 4 lanes but it's initially striped as a 2 lane. The road we just built up there is wide enough to accommodate 4 lanes of traffic. ...a little to the left of the gas company. One reason for that is your Corps of Engineers electrical project is in that same area.and by shifting CR 17, you can reduce the number of bridges that have to be built as far as crossing roadways. Dick: People misunderstand that flood control project. I mean what they've done so far is just kind of scratch around a little bit and build some little canals. I mean the next dike building is going to be, now we're talking big time. Massive changes there. T~t will start next year. Ashworth: I don't have a disagreement with Dick's point in regards that the growth. I mean when I looked at the 600,000 is based on revenues today. There is no reason why that the County should not share in the 25~ of the net growth that we might see in these next years, which may move into 650-700-750-800. Nor kman: Commercial? Ashworth: It is a fair statement to say that the County is losing $600,000. a year because of our tax increment district. If our tax increment district did not exist, they would have an additional $600,000. per year to work with. Workman: Granted that those businesses were there. Ashworth: Yes. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 11 Workman: Cart and horse. Ashworth: Right. If you made the assumption that they would have been there anyway. Workman: Would Rosemount help? Bohn: Probably Chaska. Ashworth: I don't know about Rosemount. I do know. Gerhardt: If we didn't have tax increment and somebody else had tax increment, they would go. But if nobody had tax increment, would they be here. ' Chmiel: I don't think so. Gerhardt: I don't know if Minnesota would see a lot of growth anywhere. Ashworth: The City would not have had'the money to do the infrastructure downtown. I mean you could not assess that level of improvements back on those businesses. Dick: But I think the important thing is, there's no doubt. I mean the city did some good stuff with it...criticism. Now all that has happened and we can dwell on that forever and I told you so or whatever. Fine. And you're probably right. But your city is really growing and everything I see from the demographics from the school district, that the curves going to be faster and level off later than originally proposed. Chmiel: Does the County want us to cut back? Not grow so fast. Dick: I don't think so. I mean I haven't heard anything to that. As long as things are watered and sewered, that's what they're for. I mean that's what I'm hearing from the County Board. Workman: What happens if Commissioner Dimler brought these issues. You know Ursula, she's going to be a scourge of your life down there you know. God love her. She's going to damn well not going to raise taxes or do nothing. I swear to God. But I was telling her about this issue and she already sounds like a Commissioner you know. I said well...I said how is Chaska being treated. They're growing and they've got a lot of tax increment. Are they taking care of their own roads? You know we get the, everything culminates at the assessed value hearings and you said Orlin Schafer's name. And I claim that's one of the reasons I'm running for the legislature. People are really mad. The Tribune called me an angry finger pointer. Well that's what theY're doing to me on their steps. Because they're getting sick and tired of it. They get this feeling, perception that we're funding tbs rest of the County. Our assessed values are racing and they have maybe, and County is ugly government. I give you guys credit. I mean it's tough and mandated by the State and everybody else. But that we're paying for the roads in a sense out in New Germany already maybe. You know. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 12 Dick: Oh sure. AbsoluteIy. Workman: And so that's where I kind of, you know I get protective of this great tax increment that Don, that's always going to be my tax increment money you know, even if I'm off the Council. And it's been wonderful, despite attempts by the legislature but so the only thing I can compare it to, and Ursula was, and I said I'd ask you. How does Chaska fit into this? They built a huge community center and they're spending their money tbs way they want to. How about them? Dick: They amended their plan and they'll designate it at this point in the amendment, a million bucks to a. county road. They did that, I don't know a month ago or somewhere. Workman: $o we're the cheapskates. Dick: Yeah Chmiel: But it's after the fact. Workman: But they're participating. Dick: But see we work so close and that's what I'm getting at. You have to. I mean we have to and Don and Porkorny and myself, I mean I am convinced if philosophically the HRA is Willing to do something in this respect, that we can, with Roger's help on the front, we can put a package together that will make some sense. I .mean your years are different by your projects and that changes and you know that and I don't want to get into that but once we know whatever it is, or our best guess, see Chaska will have money available until around 2000 I believe. Let's say you have it earlier. Well, if somehow we could make that fit for a long range plan and maybe do it earlier, I don't know but it can be done. I'm convinced that we can do that if HRA is willing to make the county roads deal like, Tom like you mentioned, your problem is you're protective and you should be. The trouble is you can't protect it forever because if the roads don't get there, not as a threat but just as a financial tool, then some of the things you're protecting go to hell in a... Workman: No, and you know Roger's help to educate me on the roads and things I don't have any question. I'm probably one of the few people that have gone through every page of that study. Dick: It's kind of scarey though. Workman: Yeah it is. You don't want to believe it. Dick: No. I mean it's hard to believe that can transpire but you're starting to see some of it now. Workman: Well if you left town and came back in 10 years, you wouldn't recognize this county. Carver County. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 13 Dick: But that's the main jist I wanted to get across on tonight's meeting and I won't take anymore of your time because we've got a football game to watch but, it's really an important thing from the county. I can't tell you. I don't want to minimize that because we're really sucking wind on funding and I'm trying to drum up any source I can and this is one and that's a fact. And I see it helping this community too. I really do. I think it's very important. Ashworth: You sure I didn't put my county road sheets in here or was that a separate? chmiel: No, you didn't have any county road sheets in here. Ashworth: Chaska is contributing but I mean they really should take and relook at it. I'm hoping that maybe that was just kind of an initial position on their part because the county roads in Chanhassen, is that not accurate? Is it $12 or $17 million to strip all of the county roads in Chanhassen. Roger Gustafson: About $10 million in East Union and about $3 million shares... Dick: 10.46 in Chan and 9.2 in Chaska and the share is about 2 1/4. Workman: Meaning improvements, 22? Dick: Yes. Ashworth: 22 of total over an 8 years time frame. It's big time dollars and Chaska putting in 1, you know that's... This proposal would have us putting in about 3 and if we could jointly approach the legislature in a fashion similar to what we did with 101, there's the hypothetical but we could have kicked that into almost a 9 position. $o then 9 comes pretty close to the 12 total need that's going to be there. Roger Gustafson: ...looking at an old print. Chaska, when we met, wanted to add...Boulevard as a total reconstruction just as we thought Chanhassen wanted Audubon... Dick: ...the numbers have been changing and we can get updates to you people as you need them. I mean this is, a month ago this was just kind of an idea. Now we're getting closer to. Ashworth: Yeah, we've talked about it. We're not looking to have the HRA make a final decision tonight but what I'd like to do is kind of plant the seed. Get people to think about them and hopefully then start bringing back some documents that would actually put something into place. I think if anybody is more anxious to say give us an absolute yes, this is a go, it's the school district. Because they really want to, they would like to be able to use this as a part of their marketing strategy associated with the school referendum. They see this cooperative efforts of Chaska/Chanhassen working with the school district as one way in which they can sell that referendum. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 14 Workman: How do these dollars go? And I don't have enough information. Ashworth: They're separate proposals. Part of this, the loss by the school district is less than the county. It's hard to believe. They get a bigger share overall of the actual tax dollars. If the district went away aren't that big of an impact for them. When you get closer to maybe an 8~ of the total district dollars. So if we were able to come back with a means by which we could put $300,000. back towards the school district in a very similar fashion that we're talking about with the County. Now they're looking for two additional figures. One is, if the referendum passes, it means that the average taxes will go up about For the district that means it will be generating another $750,000. per year over and above what it is we need to finish off all these projects. We can do all of these projects without that $750,000. per year. They're asking if the referendum would pass, would we send those dollars back to them because they look at it as though they helped create them. Dick: See I look at it from a greedy standpoint too. I mean you're turning about $6 million now a year. Ashworth: Yeah, you're adding HcGlynn in there. Dick: Maybe unfair but. Workman: Play it down Don. Dick: In one year, is a lot of money. I mean let's say the magic day is here and all your debt is paid and no one wants anymore projects. And say well now it's over. I'd say well geez, go one more year. That's $6 million. I mean and when I'm looking at $22 million as a total project, I mean we've got to start getting creative here someway and that's a different respect. Not right or wrong, just different. Chmiel: Roger, let me just ask you a question. Between the last 5 to e years, regarding county roads, in comparison between Chaska and Chan, what total dollars have been spent in the two different cities? And I don't expect you to, maybe you can come up with the figure but just, that's going to be some of the questions if we go through these processes here, I'm sure there's going to be people asking that specific question. Roger Gustafson: I'll have to add them up but I'm thinking of a project...Chanhassen, that's pretty equal to what this project in Chaska now. We did Pioneer Trail. We moved some dirt on 17 over here in Chanhassen and that's not a lot of work but that's all we've done down in Chaska. We did the 17 corridor this winter and that's basically it for that community. The new piece of Lyman or 18 that's built west of 4~ was lO0~ built by the city of Chaska. We didn't contribute to that. We contributed $1.00 to get it onto State.Aid. Workman: It's a county road? Roger Gustafson: It's a County State Aid Highway built lO0~ by Chaska. Workman: Even that piece by LifeCorp? Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 15 Dick: Yeah. Workman: That goes nowhere? Dick: That's right. Except in there and that was the point. Gerhardt: It goes to a $300,000.00 taxpayer. Workman: How come we didn't get that? Dick: We're planning...on Trunk Highway 5. I guess I can't think-of any place else we've had projects... I would also point out to the HRA that what I have for the Eastern Carver County program assumes, and I keep asking MnDot's staff this question. When 212 comes through, MnDot is going to fund 100~ of ail the links to the local cities in this area. Bridges and intersections and so forth. That is not in 'stone and you will find MnDot staff could say that's unrealistic. There's got to be participation. When it finally comes through here, we'll have to wait and see but any, even 10~ for an interchange, costs...is going to be a million, $2 million just for .each one so this $22 million is an enormous number in my mind but...And this isn't you know $ lane roads here where they'll be used 20 years from now. And the project's looking iffy. I'm not unrealistic...and that's what scarey in a growth time. It's so hard to predict and the dollars just ain't there from the county perspective and I don't know what will happen when the growth goes and these people can't, everything's jammed up. I mean Highway 5's a good example down to TH 41. We all know that story but that's kind of frightening. It really is. So that's all I've got and I appreciate the time and it's a real important issue. Chmiel: Thanks for coming down. Appreciate it on such a nice day. Dick: I am convinced though that if the intent is there, to enter into this, I believe Don and myself linking with the city of Chaska, can give the city the protection it wants. Whatever that is, and we can work it out to at least make something happen. I really believe that. HIGHWAY 5: A. NORTH FRONTAC~E ROd/) CONSTRUCTIOH. B. APPROVAl. OF PHASE II CONTRACT WITH BdiRTON-~CHMAN AND ~RMIROS FOR THE HIGHWAY 5 CORRID/)R $13JDY. (There was a short tape break at this point.) Chmiel: ...my concern is one of the things with this, the balance of Highway 5 is supposedly back on the docket for 1996. We're building this 4 years previous to the basic proposal of that expansion with the potential of MnDot setting back that construction. They can go to '97 and say in '98 or whatever. Ashworth: We're doing it in the basis that it might be accelerated. $o it might actually go... Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, lgg2 - Page 16 Chmiel: If it does get accelerated, yeah right. But one of the things I'm thinking of is, would it be better for us to just put that service road in to the park at this time? Now and get that off the highway as opposed to completely doing that service road all the way from CR 17 to TH 41. Ashworth: Eckankar's going to be a major stumbling bIock for us. I'm just talking out loud. As a citizen, boy I'd really love to see that get accelerated because it is so dangerous coming out of Lake Ann onto Highway 5. Chmiel: Yep, that's my concern. Ashworth: But that's a big nut when you're going to take and take on Eckankar because I mean they're going to bring in all of their attorneys to the table. Workman: They think there should be no new road there? What they hell are they telling us? It improves their property doesn't it? .. Ashworth: Well, you see they have this grandiose idea as to the value of that property. Remember got through, we finally agreed with them on this taking thing. That it was going to be, they're going to pay 66~ of whatever the final award was. Well they have their testimony in at roughly $1.2 million. We have ours in at $200,000. or $300,000. I met with them. If the amount is not closer to $800,000. they will appeal this to the State Supreme Court. I don't think they've got a chance of winning but I think that they get, they could make our life miserable in terms of the amount of money we'd have to spend to defend ourselves. I mean my point on this state thing is, I'd Just as soon have them have the State be the one because I think the way this outlined itself, the State would be the petitioning party. They would petition the Court to take the Eckankar property and we would support that petition, but it would be primarily the State that would do the administration of it. I think it's a good deal for our city. I would recommend to you that you authorize me to send a letter in. I saw on glitch in there and that was, you didn't include in an agreement that they would pay, the Morrish plan shows a park and ride right in the area of CR 117 and there are ISTEA dollars available for that and they would agree to build that and include that as a part of the ISTEA payments and I would like to modify that letter to include that agreement. Workman: So moved. Mason: Second. Bohn: It's been moved and seconded. Any questions? Workman moved, Mason seconded that the Housing and Redevelopment Authority direct staff to submit a letter to MnDot modifed to include if a park and ride lot is included within the project, that such would be an eligible cost under ISTEA. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Workman: Is John Pryzmus okay then? Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 17 Ashworth: Well 3ohn Pryzmus would again have to deal with the State but the Council had asked that we notify the property owners and meet with them and let them know what's happening. How do you.predict 3ohn Pryzmus?... Gerhardt: Do you want to go back to item number Ashworth: The budget one, you're not asking them to act on that tonight? So they're really done except for number 1 I think. Gerhardt: I've got number 8. Chmiel: Yeah, you've got 8, 9 and 10. Mason: We have item 6(b). Did we approve (b) along with (a) there for Highway 5? Gerhardt: That's Paul's contract. Ashworth: Oh I forgot. Paul had that write up in there. Which is really the contract with Cami~os to actually help out in that planning segment associated with that Highway 5 corridor. The first one was a contract with the State and the second one is a local Contract to help our Planning staff. Workman: Does Barton-Aschman come with Camiros or Camiros come with Barton-~schman, or are we picking them out of the? Why would we need help from another firm? ~shworth: I don't think that Barton-~schman brings in the type of expertise that Paul is really looking for as far as the overlay plan. (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) APPOINTMENT OF NEW CHAIR~RN, Gerhardt: One is under your HRA By-laws, you need to elect officers. I have put in your packet an election sheet. Charlte Robbing is gone tonight but that doesn't mean you can't appoint him to a position. Workman: Who's the current officers right-now? Charlie is one. Gerhardt: In there it says Chairman is vacant. That was Clark Horn. Vice Chairman is Jim Bohn. Secretary is Charlie Robbing - I've put in a mock recommendation or motion together for you. So if you want to writ them on a piece of paper and give them to me. If you want open discussion, that's fine too. The nice thing about the Chairman is that, from staff's aspect it's nice if we have somebody local' so we can have agreements signed. It's real nice with Clark being in the industrial park. I can run down there and get things signed. But that's just staff's opinion on it. It can be anybody. We'll 3ust...if it takes an extra day to get things signed. qhmiel: Is Jim or Charlie open to? Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page lB Bohn: I prefer not to be the Chairman. Chmiel: Okay. Workman: Don, do you feel that you should be Chairman? Chmiel: Oh I had some mixed emotions and I had some discussion with Todd on that. Workman: Being Mayor also. Gerhardt: 3im, did you have a chance to talk to Charlie? Bohn: No, [ haven't been able to see him. I don't know, he's been so busy. Gerhardt: He's re-mortgaging the world right now. Chmiel: Did you find out anything from him as to that position? Whether or not he would. Gerhardt: I just talked to 3im. If he could have an opportunity to catch him. I didn't talk to him personally. Workman: If I lost tomorrow night, I could remain on the HRA. And I'd be up this spring but I'd probably request. Chmiel: You're not going to lose. Workman: If's and but's, candy and nuts. Gerhardt: That means get out and vote right? Somebody even offered to drive me to the polls last night. Workman: But in that sense maybe we could have an interim or something. Mason: I don't have any trouble with that position. Workman: So then it would be for one more meeting. Chmiel: What we could do as well is just table this and have Sim as Vice Chair. He can still continue without electing a Chair and ! would think maybe, I would think that we could go with that or find out within the next 2 weeks whether Charlie wants to do it. ! wouldn't be opposed to taking this but being as Mayor 'and the same thing. It's just the. conducting of the meeting. But maybe what we s'hould do is just 'table this until. Workman: So moved. Mason: Second. Workman moved, Mason seconded to table the HRA appointments until a later meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, ~992 - Page 19 Gerhardt: I'm sorry, I should have notified Charlie. Bohn: We'll also know by the next meeting too whether Tom is going to be with us. Chmiel: That's my position. And I think to have somebody who's been on it. Mason: I agree. CONSIDER NAME CHANGE FOR WEST ?8TH STREET, Workman: Do you know ail the business people that will be mad when you change the name? Bohn: I've talked to the Post Office. The Post Office said there's only 4 houses that use main street. Workman: Ail the businesses use P.O. Boxes. Bohn: They all use P.O. Boxes and I talked to Sim Jude at the Dinner Theatre. He's for it. He said people don't remember, in fact he doesn't remember the name of the street either. And he would prefer to have a name given to it. I talked to Clayton 3ohnson. Krueger's. Norkman: Who cares huh? Chmiel: Well the only thing that-they're going to have to do is change all their checks and business correspondences. Bohn: Except I taIked to the Post Office and you can have both names and leave them that way if you want for a while. Workman: By the time the checks run out. Bohn: And for a year or 2 years, and then change them. Like 101,1yOU can drive down 101 here where you come out of Colonial Grove. It doesn't say lOl on the sign. It says Chanhassen Road. Workman: Is Main Street flashy enough? That's what-people call it though. You know McGlynn's Bakeries used to be McGlynn Bakeries. They changed their name to McGlynn's because that's what people called them. And everybody's calling main street main street. Bohn: I would just like to see a name given to it. Workman: What about West 76th? See then that's out of whack too. You know in Bloomington, West 78th is Highway 5. And there's a lot of. Mason: There's always been confusion. West 78th, oh that's by Eden Prairie shopping center right? No, that's in' Chanhassen. Workman= Well it's considered a continuation of a rather, very business, it's a business really, with what the address 'of West 78th is, people Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 20 know that. Gerhardt: Well West 78th Street goes from CR 17 all the way out to Dell Road. So you take into account the Press, the shampoo manufacturers, the lumber yard. He's got a lot of signs out on Highway 5 that already say West 78th Street. You've got an impact to changing those. There are some existing downtown street stgnage that needs to be changed. Bohn: You don't have to change it. You can add it to them like the Post Master said. Gerhardt: No, I mean the signs. Itself. Physically taking the signs down and replacing those with whatever the new name might be. Jim brought up some very good people that were for it but I mean, you should really have a written petition with everybody's hand writing on it. They may be for it now but you know down the line they'll come to Council saying, what the hell you doing. I've got this business guy that knows where West 78th Street is. Bohn: You can leave West 78th Street up. And give it a name and have both. Like we have it on lOl. We have it on. Workman: Is this an HRA concern? Gerhardt: He wanted a discussion item. Chmiel: This would go to Council.' Bohn: It'd be a recommendation to the Council. Gerhardt: So you want West 78th, you just want to put Main Street on the street signs? Bohn: Or Maple Boulevard or... Workman: To move advance the idea to the City Council, it's going to have to be bannered out there anyway. Chmiel: Yeah, but before that were to take place, I would much prefer to see signatures on a paper making that request. Workman: Can we direct staff to check that out before Council or should we have Council do that? Gerhardt: I don't know. I've never done it before. Ashworth: Remember that was one of the first things you did. Gerhardt: Zip codes. Different than street name changes. Workman: And he didn't win on that one did he? Gerhardt: We got 200 changes. We changed the southern part of Chanhassen down to Pioneer Trail. Everything north of Pioneer Trail Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 21 switched. That's about 200 single family homes that were switched from Chaska to Chan. Chmiel: We had done that in our, just on the street number. We used to be 6900 Tecumseh and now we're 7100. Gerhardt: They made me survey every single household and you have to have 100~ response. Workman: Why did you do that? Gerhardt: Yes or no. Workman: You moved 2 blocks north. Chmiel: They just had a few more houses and they wanted to get the numbers consistent. There was a lot of bitching on that. Workman: Well let's move it to the Council and then have the Council decide if they want to poll. I think it's an idea that has merit. Chmiel: Yeah but prior to that I'd like to see signatures too. Workman: But the City should decide if we want to direct staff. Poll City Council to find out if they're going to say, well this is no, no, no. We've got three of them here. Chmiel: Yeah, and if we do that, let's throw it out to the general public and say, we're going to rename main street. Submit a name and have a contest. Bohn: Like Market Boulevard, we had a contest for Market Boulevard. Chmiel: And maybe each of the Counbil people can put $5.00 up and we can give them $18.75. Bohn: A lot of people do not know which street that is out there. Chmiel: Would you like to, as an interested citizen, go around and see if you can get signatures on it from those people? Workman: I think that's going to be a time consuming thing. I'd say staff will have to take an afternoon. Ashworth: Well if we were to'do it, we'd Just send a letter out. Just like on all of our 78th Street addresses. Chmiel: I was just wanting to see whether or not Jim... Bohn: People ask me what street like the Dinner Theatre is on. I can never remember 78th Street. I cannot remember to get' 78th and 76th and. Gerhardt: The only street name change I dealt with is... Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, ~.992 - Page 22 STATUS OF CHANHASSEN BOWL. Gerhardt: Status of Chanhassen Bowl. They made a counter offer with $500,000.00. Chmiel= 1: thought it was ridiculous. Wot kman.' What's the nex% step? Gerhardt: Continue to counter here and work it down. Chmiel: Did you check those taxes yet? To see whether or not they paid them for '92. Gerhardt: They paid first half. Chmiel: They paid first half and not 'second? Gerhardt: Right. Chmiel: And what was the balance on that? Gerhardt: This year it's like they paid close to $100,000.00 a year so if he paid first half, he owes about 50. Chmiel: I thought he didn't pay '91. Gerhardt: Right, there's some 9l's that haven't been paid. Chmiel: Okay. 91's haven't been paid. Okay. DISCUSSION OF THE ~_9<~3 BUDGET. Gerhardt: Again, the '93 budget was handed out. Something for you [o look at over time. It will be back on the next agenda. We just give it to you so you have time to look at it. If you have any impressions for me tonight, I'll answer them. Workman: Are you talking about budget? Gerhardt: Yeah. We hand them out one month ahead of time so you can think over the next month of any special pTojects that you want to see. · ..larger projects get accomplished, we will tackle projects where we do the West 7$th Street Detachment, entry monuments. That will be a separate one. That won't show up in this budget. Bohn: How about the property right out in front? Gerhardt: That won't show up in this. That Hill. be another capital improvement project similar to the conference center and we'll bond for that. Cbmiel: I was looking for something here and maybe it was..but with this, do we also take into consideration the widening, of 78th? Housing and Redevelopment Authority November 2, 1992 - Page 23 Gerhardt: That's included in the West 7$th Street detachment. Chmiel: But out of the dollars appropriated for Gerhardt: No, not through this budget. It's done through your capital improvement project funds. Workman: You mean the Main Street detachment? Gerhardt: West 78th Street detachment. There Jim, you can ask him, I don't know where we are with the bank. The plaza out in front. Ashworth: Oh, I've called Fuchs. Just go ahead and start condemnation because we just can't reach agreement with McMillan. I mean he's just like... I mean I start chasing him over this way and then he takes me over this way and then we go over that way. And then he called me up and he said, well Don. You know can't we get this one last chance, and I said sure. So he's supposed to come in in another week and I don't know if we're going to be off chasing another star over this way or not. Workman: What's the problem? Ashworth: Well, geez Don. Long term thing is we're going to have an expansion and we want more parking so you know, can you work something out where we can have part of the parking in this new thing down here and then can we develop a plan that would include the Post Office and we'll do parking for all of those. Well, what if we do one and we have a municipal parking lot. You know the city does something similar to what they did over here and, there's like 12 of those. Bohn: Do we need a motion? Gerhardt: Are you asking for a motion to start condemnation? Ashworth: No, I'll meet with him and. Chmiel: Yeah, let's see where he comes from. APPROVAL OF BILLS, Norkman moved, Chmiel seconded to approve the Housing and Redevelopment Authority Bills. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Workman moved, Mason seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director' Prepared by Nann Opheim