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1991 10 17wi HOUSING AND REDEVELOPNENT AUTHORITY REC~[AR MEETING OCTOBER 17, ~991 Chairman Horn caIIed the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. ., MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Chariie Robbins, 3ia Bohn, Don ChmieI and Tom Wot kma n STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director and Todd Gerhardt, Executive Director VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. PUBLIC HEARING: PROPOSED CENTRAL PARK CONCEPT PLAN.', BARTON-ASCHt4~N- Gerhardt: Scott Mendes from Barton-Aschman is here to go through the site plan and answer any questions that the HRA or citizens may have. Scott has asked to give a 5 to LO minute presentation on how they designed the park. Scott Mendes: Before I begin I'll just give a quick reference so people know how the plan lays out. The plan that we will present today was revised and is not the exact plan...in the handout. There is a small... publicised in the newsletter. The plan that you're looking at,. north is up. Kerber Blvd. is on the west here. 78th Street is on the south. Can you hear me now? Is that better? Okay. As a quick reference, again north is up as you're looking at the plan. KerbeT Blvd. is on the west or the left. 78th is at the bottom of the sheet and Market Street and Chan View on the right. The white area in the middle is the City Hail. Currently Coulter Blvd. is going through at this point approximately. The City Hall is noted in what's considered the preliminary concept plan for Central Park shows a future expansion. Basically City Hall, as'it lays out now is about this area here so it gives you an'idea that the Central Park master plan itself incorporated the expansion or the potential expansion of City Hall into the concept itself. A couple notes here. The parking, this really doesn't show graphically the change in elevation. The upper level here would see an expanded parking lot with'an access drive off of Kerber Blvd. To our left here. A large parking lot here. Some ornamental trees and island treatment here. And this would potentially be staff parking or police parking at that point. We're showing a service entrance located in the northwest corner of City Hall. In doing this we would have a, right now as you enter City Hall you enter from the east, northeast.' An expanded drop off would occur directly north of that to accommodate the expansion and we think create more of an arrival to City Hall itself. We're calling that the drop off court. This would be a paved area. Special paving type of treatment so it would denote that it's supposed...both pedestrian and vehicular area. The gray area would denote bituminous paving just for a reference. We'd also maintain the access off of Chan View on the east bu~ we would now potentially connect,it to this area off the northwest there whereby using this again as a drop off point to City Hall itself. The park area of the curren central park to the north would incorporate a free skating area directly off this and as shown on the plan', the hqckey rinks have been tilted or reoriented so we can get at. Right now they stack north and south. This way you can get at them more freely. Also push them over just a little bit. The existing warming shelter we're building here as denoted in the white to that area. So this entire area Could be a open Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, i991 - Page 2 space and again a free skating area in the winter. The area down here which is called the lower parking lot would obviously feed the southern part and also feed any type of access to City Hall or Senior Citizen or Community Center on the lower part of City Hall expansion. Also we've accommodated another drop off area here so when people enter, they can drop off and either go park or let those people out at that point. In the southern half which is predominantly the park, if you will, of the plan there would be a large, what we're calling south plaza. The beige and light brown area would denote some type of paving or accent paving in this area. At the terminous of this would be .some type of bandshell structure that we could obviously have some nighttime or some type of activities and then the paved area with the blue tabled and umbrellas in this area would feed off of that bandshell itself. We're calling this area the, it's really hard to read with the green trees but it's called a concert grove. This is higher than this point. This would wrap around and create a space where people could sit underneath here and also listen to the music or whatever activity would be in the bandshell along with being out in this paved area. Directly south of the City Hall in this plaza would be two what are called box of trees. One would have a big planter in it. One would have possibly chairs and such in the area that people could use as two different restpit areas or areas to sit in. We've also noted some type of flagpole to, currently they're up here. Bring them down to that point so they're seen from 78th Street which is the goal of this whole thing is to nicely display the City Hall. In 'doing so we've ~enerated views on a main access north and south with what we're calling the mall which would have sidewalks on both sides connecting to the 78th Street streetscape and then it would be treelined with potentially benches along the way. You'd have an open shot of City Hall at that point with the flagpoles in the foreground of City Hall itself. The rest of the park is divided into what's being called the open lawn promenade area and the elipse garden. First the open lawn area would be unstructured. As it says, open lawn area with an access from City Hall through the streetscape and downtown so a direct shot here with benches and treelines. So this opens up an area for any type of civic events. It would predominantly.be a flat area. It would just be grass so it's an open program. The elipse garden area-which would feed off the bandshell tends to be a .litt-le more intimate whereby you can create less open area. These dark green areas or dark green trees would be coniferous trees which really gives this more of an enclosed feel and allows you to program different events into that space. More for strolling. Garden might be an optimistic view but what we're trying to do there is show that it has more of a calming feel or an enclosed feel as opposed to the open lawn area. To explain some of the graphics, the green circles here would be deciduous trees. Medium to large. You can see those here. The dark green, I'm not sure if that shows up on the camera, would be the coniferous trees. We would try to again enclose this area somewhat. Suffer the parking lot on the we'st and north so when you.'re in the park, the impact of the parking lot is minimized and again up here, reinforce this sloped area with evergreen trees. The pink denotes ornamental.trees or some type of more flowering type accents and that is primarily as a separater between the parking areas and then of course accent the plaza area at that point. What else? That's predominantly it. I'm not sure if I missed anything that Todd. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 3 Gerhardt: No, I think you highlighted the design and the effect that ! think the HRA has been trying to look at over the last 6 months. I would open it up for comments from the citizenry and what their .thoughts of this area might be or your feelings toward the project. Horn: Okay, let's open the public hearing at this time. Is there anybody that wouid Iike to speak or ask questions foIIowing the presentation? Ben Gowen: I haven't heard anything on numbers. That is dollars. Chmiel: Not yet but we will. Ben Gowen: I'm sure because the City has experienced what looks like a big farce on the main street when they planted all those trees and shrubs that were overly planted. The wrong type of material in the wrong place. Then they took them all out. Not all. They took a lot of them out and it became private property of the city employees planted in their yards. They paid people to re-evaluate the thing. Now it looks to me like they're starting up with another one. I count on this drawing 359 circles. The tiniest circle is 203 items. The next sized circle is 18 items. The next size is the larger size is 139 items. So a total of 359 estimated. Pretty hard to count it all. That looks to me like an awful lot of planting on that piece of ground which was, what was it 2 years ago they put the little center street in here? lhat's 2 years old right now. Gerhardt: 2 to 3. Ben Gowen: 2 or 3 years old right how and it's going to be torn up in favor of this picture here. Ashworth: That was 1979. 12 years ago. Ben Gowen: How many? Ashworth: 12. It was 1979. Ben Gowen: Okay. As an experiment for the mall, the approach to the City - Hall there, I stopped out here on this narrow main street the other day and faked a mechanical. A little car, a little old 3apanaGe car'came by and there was 18 inches between him and me. I thought it was pretty tight and unfortunately or fortunately right after there was a semi. We had 4 inches between my car and the semi, or the big semi truck which is totally impractical. To use that mall, it looks to me like you'd have to run up behind the building and park your car or walk down the sidewalk and walk up the mall. Otherwise it's impractical. You can't stop on main street and walk up the mall. You might look at it as you drive by. I think.the whole plan is pretty much impractical and way overdone. Way out of line for expenses which we haven't heard yet and your last statement on your paper here says, it should additionally note that the project as envisioned would not involve any general property tax dollars. I think that the State and the Federal and the County, all use tax dollars somehow. I don't think you have any business whereby you earn revenue that you spend money that isn't tax money. I think this is one way Or another tax money being way.over spent and right on top of a big mess you have on the front street here just Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 4 a fen years ago. I'd like to see you curtail the operations a little bit. Get back to practicality. Your comment says that you'd like to mimic Chaska. Well I checked Chaska. They've got 30 trees under 5 inches. They've got 16 over 14 inches. That totals 45 trees. 46 trees. You're talking 350 or 60 trees. Pretty much out of line for a citizens of and 12,000 people. I don't think they need that much at this time. Maybe you need the space andall that but I don't think you need this over abundance of planting. I'd like to comment later maybe if time permits. Horn: Thanks. Anyone else? If nobody's willing to speak right now, are there comments from the HRA members? Tom. Workman: Well, and I'm sorry I didn't catch the gentleman's name. Ben GoNen: Ben GoNen. Workman: Okay. He is correct that we haven't heard the figures yet and something that's certainly a concern. This is an elaborate undertaking. I don't know Todd if you want to explain tax increment financing a little bit again. I think most of us know about it-and where those funds come from and how or why we're applying them here. Maybe we can do that. We're going to be taking up Nest 78th right in front of City Hail again because of some of'the development and the growth with the grocery store and the big mall and another bank and everything else so that road where you, in front of City Hall where you faked your stall is going to be probably, there's going to be plenty of lanes. Plenty of passing lanes. That doesn't mean Ne did it correctly 3 years ago. It means maybe Ne didn't look far enough ahead but I think we've gone over that question about trees and overplanting and everything else quite a bit. I grew up down in Chaska and Ne used the central park down in Chaska on Friday nights for-band concerns and everything else and it Nas a very nice central meeting place and it is definitely something that Chanhassen does not have. Does that mean Ne have to have it? No it doesn't mean anything I guess. Ne can choose to do nothing. 20 years ago or so whenever they, whenever A1 Klingelhutz and all those people decided to buy the large piece of property out at Lake Ann which is non Lake Ann, we would consider that a very smart decision in 1991 and I know a lot of the new citizens as well as the old appreciate that we have Lake Ann today. Wish Ne had ma~be 174 acres next to Lake Ann which is non Eckankar. $o Ne can't .keep up on all of it. This is definitely something that is a very big project. We're redoing things. It's going to cost us a lot of money and one of the factors for me is what will the people in 10-15 and 20 years from now think of when my daughters come back from college or wherever. And so while'it looks ambitious and it probably will be considered one of the more ambitious thlngs Ne ever do, that's what I'm trying to weigh and it's starting to look a little bit like the White House but it is something that I'm excited about and I've had an awful lot of comments from a lot of people who I thought would maybe be here tonight but who are not but I've received a lot of positive feedback on this. Chmiel: I guess I have a couple questions. The bandshell in itself. Is. that going to be completely open other than the fact with the roof on it? Complete visibility from all the Nay around? Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting' October 17, 1991 - Page 5 Scott Mendes: Right. So anytime, again if you're sitting in the grass here or if you're out in the paving, it would be open .... Chmiel: The other things that I see just below City Hall where the walks come into the building on each side. Would it be adviseable to have a sidewalk somewhere through there in the event people do pull over on one end of the building or the other and not knowing exactly where they're going? That they then have accessibility to walk around that front end of the building. In other words, something like we have presently out in front with a sidewalk. Scott Mendes: You could walk on this paving which is actually closer to the building than it is now. Chmiel: Alright. Scott Mendes: I don't know if it shows up on there either.' Chmiel: No, that's something. Explain. Scott Mendes: There's also, actually there's access all around the City Hall. There's also access if you tended to park here. This is a walkway that would obviously step down at certain points. It would lead you here. We would maintain this access off of this area here and obviously-this entire area would be paved at that point. Chmiel: Also, for the senior portion there, is that coming down now from, it would be just the opposite side of City Hall which is going to be out in front. Scott Mendes: Here? Chmiel: Right. Is that also going to be handicapped accessible so people can have that accessibility into the senior center portion? Scott Hendes: This area here? Chmiel: Right. Scott Mendes: It would be accessible to this point 'which is a long run. We have to work with these grades which obviously works against us. We'd have to have some type of ramp system I guess occurring in this point. Chmiel: Yeah, that's something that should be looked at and considered for that accessibility. Are there any sidewalks in and adjacent to the parking? Getting out of their cars rather than walking through the parking lot? Walk on the sidewalks in front of those cars? Scott Mendes: Here? Chmiel: Not so much up there but for those that are, o.r the most useable portion is used. Right in through that area. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 6 Scott Mendes: This maintains the parking lot that's out there now. We've just shown it cuts through here so you would have to walk because this is all a steep slope. You'd have to walk in the drive· aisles. Chmiel: I've sat out here many times on Saturday. mornings and observed mothers and children getting in and out of vehicles out of cars and kids shooting out into the parking lot. If we had a little bit of a sidewalk somewhere off in the upper portion. Scott Mendes: Up here? Chmiel: Yeah. As we have right out here. Just leave something, a narrow sidewalk so they're able to walk them in on that rather than through the parking lot because I also note that most of the people coming in pulled off to that far side. To the upper portion of the lot. Scott Mendes: What we were trying to do was lessesn the impact of this whole thing upon the park so we went to the narrowest....which was 60 feet. · Again we did it up here so we wouldn't.encroach on. the park but those are good points. Chmiel: Total space that you have on the lower right hand corner. How many, what square footage do we have within that particular area? Scott Mendes: What is the parcel, the bank, or how much area is in that parcel? Gerhardt: It's about 3 acres. Little under. Chmiel: Okay. So it'd be probably about not quite an acre. I'm sort of trying to get those trees that go across that particular parcel as well. What's the desireability of having that there? Scott Mendes: The main thing is', as people are either congregating here.or downtown, it gives them a direct shot to any activities that would be occurring at this point. They tend to walk in straight lines and sort of classical form but we've shown it as a.diagonal working into it. I don't think it would, I think plan wise it looks like it cuts that area in two which can be a plus especially if you've got some type of civic area but it's pretty much flat. Chmiel: I'm thinking of something the business people within the community may utilize that particular area for special events that--they may have. Something like Crazy Days or something of that nature...If they had the availability and use of that area as well. Trees.themselves in all the proposals that you're talking, I like all those trees there. If I have to pay for them, I have to start stop thinking about it a little bit. Scott Mendes: I think what's always' deceptive and I'll respond to the gentleman's comment was that obviously it's a master plan and it's what's envisioned over who knows. 5, 20 years you know. When we always do these types of plans we show everything. Obviously phasing or whatever· would obviously occur. I think it's also, when you take into account the·size of the area, I guess it would be logical. Also if you look at the amount of Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page ? parking area and paved area, obviously the City requires developers to screen or lessen the impact of all that hard surface and I think in here think it's very much needed to make it a desireable space as this area would be. Chmiel: One of the things we're trying to do is focus on City Hall. What are the trees that we're going to put in. What would be. the finalized heights? Scott Mendes: The pink ones Would b'e 12 to 18 foot height. These, if we go'with the city tree or the city emblem, maybe some type of sugar maple, obviously those would get 40-50 loot'-hight as would obviously we want the parking lot trees to be the biggest. Conifer trees can range 20-50 feet obviously in a lifetime. I'm talking in a lifetime for all of these obviously. And I think a lot of the trees, You've got some ash trees occurring on Center Drive or Coulter, a lot of those obviously would be saved and put into this concept. That would be part. Chmiel: I know with the downtown center medians and the trees that we had replaced because of the amount of ones that had died and making sure that they were placed what was there. I agree we had probably too many trees and one specific area almost cost me a ticket because of visibility. It just happen to be that a highway patroler was coming down the other end. Fortunately enough I was able to discuss that with him and didn't get a ticket but the visibility there I didn't see him. I furthermore said to him, I thought he was driving a little fast too, but that's besides the point. Scott Mendes: We have shown on the master plan that widened in the turn off lanes. I know maybe graphically it doesn't show up but it's the same as in the newsletter. I think it's hard to see scale when you look at this. This is widened. Chmiel: Right. Then the exit coming out Kerber, how far is that from. Yeah, I guess I'm answering my own question. It's 'far enough down. I'm thinking about the children. Scott Mendes: Stacking? Chmiel: Yeah stacking as well as children crossing. How close that was to that area and we're considerable distance away from that yet. (There was a tape change at this point .in the discussion.) Horn: Any other comments? Is there anyone else from the public can think of something they're like to ask? Ashworth: ...Under State law the HRA overall plan for what it wants to accomplish. If you go back in your plan 10 years ago, you had in there the acquisition of the Red-E-Mix plant and Taco and in all likelihood that will occur this next year. But it literally took us 11-12 years to get there. I don't see where this is any different. There's not a necessity to immediately act on this. If the HRA wanted to keep the record open for an additional month or two months to receive comments on the downtown plan, Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17. 1991 - Page 8 we're not under any real pressure. I think one of the concern areas has always been that if the property in front of City Hall were sold, potentially 3 story Days Inn put in, it would change the perspective of the downtown significantly and potentially-through this type of planning effort, we could insure that we maintain some green in the center of our community. Well in the future this area is the center. The downtown commercial activity will continue to the west. Within some distant future, this area will be the center of your commercial area. By our being able to acquire this within the next year or two, you. start bringing in fill if that were available to us...actual construction of the site. We're estimating 1 to 1.5 million dollars necessary to accomplish this plan. The largest cost factor in there is the acquisition of the existing property which again had been noted a little, right at 3 acres. I think that we're well aware of the price of land in the downtown area. Part of that cost estimate differential recognizes what type of a bandshell that you may look to in whatever number of years. There's a statement made that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I totally agree with that statement. It has to be paid from somewhere. One of the nice things with the tax increment law different than what we see within in the rest of the.community, in .fact I wish the State law could be ghanged so all properties could be handled in a similar fashion to what occurs in a tax increment district. Specifically if on your property at home you put a garage on there or improve your property, you're simply going to be penalized for it. You're going to pay more taxes because you paid that additional siding on or whatever and you basically reap no additional benefits.- Within a tax increment district the base taxes continue to be paid to the school o'r County but you have an opportunity whereby the additional dollars that are generated, if you do something in that district, can be shared. In other words, it's a means by which you can help the businesses in that area as well as helping the City itself. The entire downtown has been a perfect example of that. We had I remember one of our businessman said, this is the greatest thing because it gives me an opportunity as a businessman to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and I really think that that Comment is true. When you have businesses in the downtown such as the old Hanus facility...Bernie's property, two single family residences, you had terrible under utilization of land. You had instances where land was open but who would want to come in and build whatever type of a facility next to some of the uses that were occurring along main street. You had a printing facility that was operating trucks and had the smoke and whatever else right in your downtown. It was an opportunity for those businesses to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and in the process give something back to the community. Tax increment would be proposed to be used for this project and in my own mind it is something.that we're giving back to the business people. There's been a lot of comments over the years and I don't disagree with those, that a lot of money was put in in terms of landscaping and the streets are narrow. I again don't disagree with that. We've paid people to take and relook at things and Ben'is right. Those are more dollars. The Mayor and Chairman is correct in terms of saying that the people who planned that and made some of. those errors are ~o longer working for us. But I think it's also important to remember that before those things started, there wasn't sewer capacity down there. You couldn't put an additional business there because you didn't have the sanitary sewer to do it. There was no such thing as storm sewer. The Riveria filled up with. water. The church had water up to the door. The cleaners continuously had Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 9 water. The water llnes could not provide adequate water protection. In general the infrastructure was terrible. You may-have spent more than you should have in terms of landscaping. Some of the trees should have been and were pulled out. The...here, what.city employee supposedly has. Ben Gowen: It's inmaterial. They...and they went back to a good use. Ashworth: I guess it makes me feel better to know that they went into the trash can and maybe an employee pulled it out of there. The way it was stated. Ben Gowen: It was paid for, pulled out and thrown away and reused... Ashworth: Less than 5~ of the total cost within the downtown area went fo.r things such as landscaping and even the curbing. We will spend dollars to take and correct that use. You've seen means by which we can take and put signals in which I thin are needed. Will help in terms of traffic movement. You have seen plans in terms of how the streets will be widened. In fact right in front of this area. I don't know that you could have totally envisioned, even though it's only 3 years ago, that a bank would have been proposed across the street and you would have ended up with a cut in the island and the necessity for a right turn lane. Some of those things you may not have known and so some of the dollars that we wilt respend to again help the same businesses or new businesses help themself, maybe you should have known. Maybe you shouldn't have. I think that touches most of the questions that I had heard. Horn: Any other questions? Chmiel: Just maybe to piggyback on those trees'that were in the garbage and came back. A lot of those trees that did go, the City'was compensated. In fact I rode that rather heavily to make sure we get some dollars back from the previous company that put that in for us. The designers of that. We did get compensation back for a lot of those trees too. Ben Gowen: ...can I talk again? Chmiel: Sure. Ben 6owen: You said Clark that you had some plans prior to this picture that we as citizens can't evaluate from l I think it would be nice to see what was proposed by other sources or other reasons. Not that I'm the only guy that...sent this out to the public, see which ones .... or judge them out. Another thing is I think something like this should be two scale in order to judge them. It's not to scale you say, how can you judge it? It's just an artist concept of a plan. It's not scale. You've got to have scale. I think that the mall is inmaterial to this program or this picture. I don't think we need a mall. It can't be utilized. You're not going to stop at the sidewalk and walk up the mall. If you're going to stop here, you're going to stop in the parking lot, walk around here and come up the mall. It's not a practical approach. I'd like to see some other types of picture plans. Did I understand you say this is going into effect in two months? Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 10 Chmiel: No, leave it open for 2 months for comments. Horn: Leave the hearing process open. Ben Gowen: Is there any chance of showing'other concepts besides this one to the public so they can pick and choose a little bit or something? Horn: We had some other presentations too didn't we? Chmiel: Yes. Horn: Are those available that we could let people look at them? Ben Gowen: Well, in order to judge you've got to' look at more than one item and it should be to scale. If it's not-to scale, you don't know what you're looking at. These trees, a 50 foot tree here. My God, 'you're not even going to find the building. Horn: Especially if it's right'next to the street. See that's why I questioned was the intent to hide City Hall because 'we have heard some comments. Ben Gowen: No, it's just the people in it isn't it? No, anyway I'd like to see a little more work done on it because I think if 360 trees, shrubs and brush in here is way over done. Even in concept and 'if it's not done to scale, you can't design what tree or shrub or sidewalk. The car down here for instance. That's a teeny weeny little car and a great big street. It's not in proportion. You've got to have a proportional picture. Scott Mendes: It's to scale. Ben Gowen: It is to scale? Workman: The car is? Is there a car there? Chmiel: Yeah. Ben Gowen: The car is 8 feet wide? THen the street is 60 feet wide. It's impossible. It can't be to scale. Scott Mendes: This is wider. This shows... Ben Gowen: I know but if that's $ feet. A car's 8 feet wide right? .- Scott Mendes: Right. Approximately. Ben Gowen: Well multiple that down here, you've got going to get 5 times that, 50-60 feet. Scott Mendes: This represents 4 lanes... Ben Gowen: It's a tight 2. Housing and Redeveiopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 11 Scott Mendes: No, it represents 4 Ianes. That's why the car iooks so smaII. It doesn't represent. Workman: It's going to be expanded. You know the ladd doesn't need to be so expensive on this. Not listening to me. Ben Gowen: They don't own this Iand? Horn: We don't. No, not across the street. Ben Gowen: No, no. I mean this side. Horn: This side, yes. Workman: What I was saying is the land doesn't need to be so expensive and I guess they heard it and they ignored me over there. Really the biggest problem that I have so far is, it is difficult to compare if you don't really know the expenses and that's why it'd be nice to-keeP this process open for whatever, 2 months or whatever and get figures to back up. The difference between 1 million and 1.5 million is 50~. And what might look like a deal at a million might not look-like it at a million and a half. And so we're still so far off with all ~hose numbers that it's really hard to gauge whether we're getting bang for our buck or not. Horn: Well the problem we always have is you know we always say at this point this is a concept but then what happens is you find out that you've got the final architecture and the plans already to go like we did with the shopping center and we had no idea that we were going to get flat roofs and those kinds of things so I think we get'a little edgy about what we hear as a concept because these things tend to get locked in before we ever find out there's a difference. So those are some of the concerns we have and I think it's a good idea to leave the process open for a while. Chmiel: Mr. Chairman,'I would like to just make a motion. We can still leave it open for discussion but what I'd like to see us do is to leave this open for another month, or two and I would go as mubh as two. We should also advertise this and indicate it will be on display here at City Hall and ask for input and we'll go from there. Horn: Is there a second to the motion to e×tend the public hearing? Robbins: Second. Horn: Further discussion? Bohn: I have one question. What does that do as far as acquiring the property? Horn: Are we under any time constraints on that Todd? Gerhardt: You may come out and hit a group of people and may even decide that you don't want to go ahead with it depending on how this 2 months comes through. I mean 2 months will not delay the acquisition of that land. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 12 Chmiel: Yeah. I've received a lot of favorable comments on this from people. I've not, I'll take it back. I had one. And after it was explained then it was sort of still questionable but I didn't get a real negative. Ben Gowen: No, I think you've got to have it. You've got to buy'the land but the... Horn: I don't think any of us are comfortable totally with what we see. Did you have a comment sir? Resident: Just respond to the question... We have nothing pressing to... Horn: Any other, comments anyone wants to make? Robbins: Would it be part of this motion or another motion. Is it possible that within this 2 months and to echo what Ben was'saying about different plans. About getting different plans and maybe an approximate cost for each of the plans. Would that be workable? Gerhardt: It's difficult. I mean it's no~ like going to a grocery store and picking out different items for cost. Again I'm sure. Robbins: Well, I'm just echoing what Tom was saying. The range is anywhere from a million to a million five. Is this a million five or a million shot? Again that's kind of the question here. Gerhardt: The fluctuation of $500,000.00 is depending on how we come acquiring the land over there. Relocation of the tenants in the building and determining the price. There's going to be a lot of contingencies involved with this and difference in like you had to acquire Pony/Pauly/ Pryzmus. Bernie. I mean over a one year period the price in those things fluctuate drastical.ly. Robbins: So within that though, land acquisition, no matter which plan we use should be somewhat static. Ashworth: I think we can come back with some fairly good numbers. I guess the one that I would worry more about' would be do you want to go real elaborate with the bandshell or are you looking to a very austere type of a structure? '- Bohn: Well for now we could just have a plain piece of property fiat and grade it and plant grass. Later on do something with it but at least we have something to work with. Horn: Even the backdrop there, with the grading could start forming what we're going to have and give us some help. There is a motion and a second on the floor to extend the public hearing for 30 to 60 days depending on the input that we get at the next meeting. Further discussion on the motion? Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 13 Chmiel moved, Robbtns seconded to continue th® public hear/ng regarding the proposed Central Park concept plan for 30 to 60 days. All voted [n favor and the motion carried. Horn: So the public hearing will be open at the next HRA meeting and possibly the following HRA meeting a~ter that. We've instructed the staff to have presentation material available for some of the qoncepts that we initially looked at. Also there will be a notice in the paper regarding that the public hearing is still open and people can view the plans here. Is that correct? Chmiel: Mr. Chair? Horn: Yes. Chmiel: I'd also like to see if we can pull this together as time goes by Ben I'd like you to come in and take a look see too. So we can keep this thing sort of rolling as we go along. But I like some of your comments. Robbins: I would also encourage you, you know you were saying about the number of people that were here for the public hearing. Believe that's why it's a public heaving. If you know of anybody, please invite them here and let's get their discussion as well. APPROVE PURCHASE AGREEMENT, ~OT$ 5 AND 6. CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK 5TH ADDITION. Horn: Ne had a public hearing on this last week. Robbins: ...any changes within what we talked about last week? Gerhardt: No. This purchase agreement outlines our discussion of last week. I guess there is one difference. I guess you are buying it for $2.00 instead of Horn: That's inflation. Workman: Deal's dead. That's a 100~ mark-up. Robbins: Has counsel looked at this and reviewed it? Ashwo~th: You're saying our legal counsel? Gerhardt: You threw me. [ thought City Council. Robbins: No, no. Gerhardt: Yeah, Roger Knutson prepared this agreement. Robbins: I move we accept the document as slated. Horn: Is there a second? Bohn: Second. Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 14 Horn: Further discussion? Robbins moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Purchase Agreement for Lots 5 and 6, Chanhassen Lakes Business park 5th Addition as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PRESENTATION OF 1992 HOUS~N~ AND REDEVELOPMENT ~dJTHORITY IBt,IID~ET. Ashworth: Since those were a direct mail out and not in the packet, Todd's are upstairs and he's running up to grab them. I might note-that this past week, Tuesday specifically we opened bids on our 1992 bonds at the City Council. I put a copy of bids that had been received. They were very favorable. The ones that really are of interest to the HRA, there's one that's called a tax increment bonds 575,000. Something like that. That's road improvement bonds out by McGlynn and associated with that district and therefore not under the auspices of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority. You can see that one had bids ranging from 465 to 560 for a net interest rate of 5.55. The one that the HRA might be interested in is the $1,685,000.00 taxable general obligation tax increment bonds of 1991 which really provide the dollars necessary for the Market Square development. Since in that instance we're working specifically with the developer, shopping center, etc., etc., these are taxable bonds. In other words the purchaser of these will pay taxes on them and that's the reason that they carry a higher rate. Even at that', a 7.59~, I think Clark may remember years in sitting on the City Council where we wish as a'tax exempt issue that we could sell them for 7.5~. Later in the agenda, if we have time I would like to go 'through the debt study. I know that's kind of like watching paint dry but the long and the short of that is the HRA continues to be doing very, very well. You're meeting all of your debt obligations. ...stays on line should you wish to basically see it cease in the 1995 time frame, you could do that. The debt study has been modified to include the cost associated with Market Square in there. On the other side of the coin, it does not include any revenue from that pro3ect. So you're taking absolutely the most conservative position you can take meaning that you're spending the money but you're not getting anything back in return. Again that document shows, and I broke out all debt of the City. I believe the very center section is the tax increment stuff and again, if you look at that, by the Year 2003, you're up into a 12-13 million dollar surplus position. 3ust a tremendous district. Any question on the bond sale? Chmiel: Did you mention the fact that everybody else had heard our bond rating had changed? Ashworth: No. We brought Moody's out. I really appreciate the Mayor taking the time to go out with us. The other key. factor that I really think helped in that rate change, upgrading was who we took them to some of our local businesses. We had an opportunity to meet with the executives from Rosemount. 3erome Carlson took of his time to take them through Instant Webb. Answered questions. Talked about the viability of their company. What they're envisioning. How they've gone through the recession and then we went out to Prince's studio. The long and'the short of that. was, the telephone conversations I had, the individual said something to the effect of, he said you really have some viable businesses in that community. In your community. I said, we're real proud of our business Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting October 17, 1991 - Page 15 group and it did result in a bond upgrade which we saw in the bids. Our financial consultant did not know if we would get an increase effect. He and I were both worried that we would maintain where we were. 'As you look in those bids, we're 30 to 40 basis points underneath what his estimates were so that's very favorable. Start multiplying 30-40 basis points times 5 million dollars times 10 years, you get some big dollars. Horn: So the recession is good for something. Ashworth: I guess so. Horn: Okay. Any input on projects that the HRA should be promoting? Gerhardt: Chairman, HRA members. Maybe I overdid it .on my ideas of making banners but there's been a big discussion through City Hall and some people through the business community that have asked me why we don't have banners similar to some other cities and I constantly get this stuff through the mail. Each one of these are different banners sales people. St. Paul, Minneapolis have a big banner on a lot of their poles. .That's one idea. If it's of interest to you. I could take it and talk to the Chamber to see if they would be interested in funding a portion of it also. Some concepts I thought of is you have the Christmas theme and then a summer theme of some kind in downtown or some summer farmers market type of banner. You can go the Christmas theme of joy or peace or just Christmas. Workman: I'm sorry, I got cut off for just a ~econd.. I talked to .you a iittIe bit about banners and Don. Chmiel: Who hasn't. Workman: But I don't think the lights that we are endraping from those skinny trees down there is quite doing it. The white lights. I like the. white light concept because it's a classy touch. I think it really reflects off the Dinner Theatre but yeah, they just kind of drape them up there and it looks really cheap. I think last year when I first saw them I think we had come back from Houston. The ritzy area of Houston where they do the trees in white lights. Unbelieveable. Now I don't know what that costs but it appears as though they wrap the tree in these sheets of lights all the way up to the branches are like that. It looks really elaborate. Really classy looking. I don't know, it just seems like the lights we have and the way they dangle and hang... Ii'd like to put a moratorium on those lights... (The taping of the meeting ended at this point.) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Workman moved, Robbins seconded to approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Meeting dated September 19, 1991 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. APPROVAL OF ACCOUNTS. Robbins moved, Bohn seconded to'approve the Accounts Payable as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director Prepared by Nann Omheim