1991 10 17wi
HOUSING AND REDEVELOPNENT AUTHORITY
REC~[AR MEETING
OCTOBER 17, ~991
Chairman Horn caIIed the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
.,
MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Chariie Robbins, 3ia Bohn, Don ChmieI and Tom
Wot kma n
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director and Todd Gerhardt,
Executive Director
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
PUBLIC HEARING:
PROPOSED CENTRAL PARK CONCEPT PLAN.', BARTON-ASCHt4~N-
Gerhardt: Scott Mendes from Barton-Aschman is here to go through the site
plan and answer any questions that the HRA or citizens may have. Scott has
asked to give a 5 to LO minute presentation on how they designed the park.
Scott Mendes: Before I begin I'll just give a quick reference so people
know how the plan lays out. The plan that we will present today was
revised and is not the exact plan...in the handout. There is a small...
publicised in the newsletter. The plan that you're looking at,. north is
up. Kerber Blvd. is on the west here. 78th Street is on the south. Can
you hear me now? Is that better? Okay. As a quick reference, again north
is up as you're looking at the plan. KerbeT Blvd. is on the west or the
left. 78th is at the bottom of the sheet and Market Street and Chan View
on the right. The white area in the middle is the City Hail. Currently
Coulter Blvd. is going through at this point approximately. The City Hall
is noted in what's considered the preliminary concept plan for Central Park
shows a future expansion. Basically City Hall, as'it lays out now is about
this area here so it gives you an'idea that the Central Park master plan
itself incorporated the expansion or the potential expansion of City Hall
into the concept itself. A couple notes here. The parking, this really
doesn't show graphically the change in elevation. The upper level here
would see an expanded parking lot with'an access drive off of Kerber Blvd.
To our left here. A large parking lot here. Some ornamental trees and
island treatment here. And this would potentially be staff parking or
police parking at that point. We're showing a service entrance located in
the northwest corner of City Hall. In doing this we would have a, right
now as you enter City Hall you enter from the east, northeast.' An expanded
drop off would occur directly north of that to accommodate the expansion
and we think create more of an arrival to City Hall itself. We're calling
that the drop off court. This would be a paved area. Special paving type
of treatment so it would denote that it's supposed...both pedestrian and
vehicular area. The gray area would denote bituminous paving just for a
reference. We'd also maintain the access off of Chan View on the east bu~
we would now potentially connect,it to this area off the northwest there
whereby using this again as a drop off point to City Hall itself. The park
area of the curren central park to the north would incorporate a free
skating area directly off this and as shown on the plan', the hqckey rinks
have been tilted or reoriented so we can get at. Right now they stack
north and south. This way you can get at them more freely. Also push them
over just a little bit. The existing warming shelter we're building here
as denoted in the white to that area. So this entire area Could be a open
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, i991 - Page 2
space and again a free skating area in the winter. The area down here
which is called the lower parking lot would obviously feed the southern
part and also feed any type of access to City Hall or Senior Citizen or
Community Center on the lower part of City Hall expansion. Also we've
accommodated another drop off area here so when people enter, they can drop
off and either go park or let those people out at that point. In the
southern half which is predominantly the park, if you will, of the plan
there would be a large, what we're calling south plaza. The beige and
light brown area would denote some type of paving or accent paving in this
area. At the terminous of this would be .some type of bandshell structure
that we could obviously have some nighttime or some type of activities and
then the paved area with the blue tabled and umbrellas in this area would
feed off of that bandshell itself. We're calling this area the, it's
really hard to read with the green trees but it's called a concert grove.
This is higher than this point. This would wrap around and create a space
where people could sit underneath here and also listen to the music or
whatever activity would be in the bandshell along with being out in this
paved area. Directly south of the City Hall in this plaza would be two
what are called box of trees. One would have a big planter in it. One
would have possibly chairs and such in the area that people could use as
two different restpit areas or areas to sit in. We've also noted some type
of flagpole to, currently they're up here. Bring them down to that point
so they're seen from 78th Street which is the goal of this whole thing is
to nicely display the City Hall. In 'doing so we've ~enerated views on a
main access north and south with what we're calling the mall which would
have sidewalks on both sides connecting to the 78th Street streetscape and
then it would be treelined with potentially benches along the way. You'd
have an open shot of City Hall at that point with the flagpoles in the
foreground of City Hall itself. The rest of the park is divided into
what's being called the open lawn promenade area and the elipse garden.
First the open lawn area would be unstructured. As it says, open lawn area
with an access from City Hall through the streetscape and downtown so a
direct shot here with benches and treelines. So this opens up an area for
any type of civic events. It would predominantly.be a flat area. It would
just be grass so it's an open program. The elipse garden area-which would
feed off the bandshell tends to be a .litt-le more intimate whereby you can
create less open area. These dark green areas or dark green trees would be
coniferous trees which really gives this more of an enclosed feel and
allows you to program different events into that space. More for
strolling. Garden might be an optimistic view but what we're trying to do
there is show that it has more of a calming feel or an enclosed feel as
opposed to the open lawn area. To explain some of the graphics, the green
circles here would be deciduous trees. Medium to large. You can see those
here. The dark green, I'm not sure if that shows up on the camera, would
be the coniferous trees. We would try to again enclose this area somewhat.
Suffer the parking lot on the we'st and north so when you.'re in the park,
the impact of the parking lot is minimized and again up here, reinforce
this sloped area with evergreen trees. The pink denotes ornamental.trees
or some type of more flowering type accents and that is primarily as a
separater between the parking areas and then of course accent the plaza
area at that point. What else? That's predominantly it. I'm not sure if
I missed anything that Todd.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 3
Gerhardt: No, I think you highlighted the design and the effect that !
think the HRA has been trying to look at over the last 6 months. I would
open it up for comments from the citizenry and what their .thoughts of this
area might be or your feelings toward the project.
Horn: Okay, let's open the public hearing at this time. Is there anybody
that wouid Iike to speak or ask questions foIIowing the presentation?
Ben Gowen: I haven't heard anything on numbers. That is dollars.
Chmiel: Not yet but we will.
Ben Gowen: I'm sure because the City has experienced what looks like a big
farce on the main street when they planted all those trees and shrubs that
were overly planted. The wrong type of material in the wrong place. Then
they took them all out. Not all. They took a lot of them out and it
became private property of the city employees planted in their yards. They
paid people to re-evaluate the thing. Now it looks to me like they're
starting up with another one. I count on this drawing 359 circles. The
tiniest circle is 203 items. The next sized circle is 18 items. The next
size is the larger size is 139 items. So a total of 359 estimated. Pretty
hard to count it all. That looks to me like an awful lot of planting on
that piece of ground which was, what was it 2 years ago they put the little
center street in here? lhat's 2 years old right now.
Gerhardt: 2 to 3.
Ben Gowen: 2 or 3 years old right how and it's going to be torn up in
favor of this picture here.
Ashworth: That was 1979. 12 years ago.
Ben Gowen: How many?
Ashworth: 12. It was 1979.
Ben Gowen: Okay. As an experiment for the mall, the approach to the City -
Hall there, I stopped out here on this narrow main street the other day and
faked a mechanical. A little car, a little old 3apanaGe car'came by and
there was 18 inches between him and me. I thought it was pretty tight and
unfortunately or fortunately right after there was a semi. We had 4 inches
between my car and the semi, or the big semi truck which is totally
impractical. To use that mall, it looks to me like you'd have to run up
behind the building and park your car or walk down the sidewalk and walk up
the mall. Otherwise it's impractical. You can't stop on main street and
walk up the mall. You might look at it as you drive by. I think.the whole
plan is pretty much impractical and way overdone. Way out of line for
expenses which we haven't heard yet and your last statement on your paper
here says, it should additionally note that the project as envisioned would
not involve any general property tax dollars. I think that the State and
the Federal and the County, all use tax dollars somehow. I don't think you
have any business whereby you earn revenue that you spend money that isn't
tax money. I think this is one way Or another tax money being way.over
spent and right on top of a big mess you have on the front street here just
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 4
a fen years ago. I'd like to see you curtail the operations a little bit.
Get back to practicality. Your comment says that you'd like to mimic
Chaska. Well I checked Chaska. They've got 30 trees under 5 inches.
They've got 16 over 14 inches. That totals 45 trees. 46 trees. You're
talking 350 or 60 trees. Pretty much out of line for a citizens of
and 12,000 people. I don't think they need that much at this time. Maybe
you need the space andall that but I don't think you need this over
abundance of planting. I'd like to comment later maybe if time permits.
Horn: Thanks. Anyone else? If nobody's willing to speak right now, are
there comments from the HRA members? Tom.
Workman: Well, and I'm sorry I didn't catch the gentleman's name.
Ben GoNen: Ben GoNen.
Workman: Okay. He is correct that we haven't heard the figures yet and
something that's certainly a concern. This is an elaborate undertaking.
I don't know Todd if you want to explain tax increment financing a little
bit again. I think most of us know about it-and where those funds come
from and how or why we're applying them here. Maybe we can do that. We're
going to be taking up Nest 78th right in front of City Hail again because
of some of'the development and the growth with the grocery store and the
big mall and another bank and everything else so that road where you, in
front of City Hall where you faked your stall is going to be probably,
there's going to be plenty of lanes. Plenty of passing lanes. That
doesn't mean Ne did it correctly 3 years ago. It means maybe Ne didn't
look far enough ahead but I think we've gone over that question about trees
and overplanting and everything else quite a bit. I grew up down in Chaska
and Ne used the central park down in Chaska on Friday nights for-band
concerns and everything else and it Nas a very nice central meeting place
and it is definitely something that Chanhassen does not have. Does that
mean Ne have to have it? No it doesn't mean anything I guess. Ne can
choose to do nothing. 20 years ago or so whenever they, whenever A1
Klingelhutz and all those people decided to buy the large piece of property
out at Lake Ann which is non Lake Ann, we would consider that a very smart
decision in 1991 and I know a lot of the new citizens as well as the old
appreciate that we have Lake Ann today. Wish Ne had ma~be 174 acres next
to Lake Ann which is non Eckankar. $o Ne can't .keep up on all of it. This
is definitely something that is a very big project. We're redoing things.
It's going to cost us a lot of money and one of the factors for me is what
will the people in 10-15 and 20 years from now think of when my daughters
come back from college or wherever. And so while'it looks ambitious and
it probably will be considered one of the more ambitious thlngs Ne ever
do, that's what I'm trying to weigh and it's starting to look a little bit
like the White House but it is something that I'm excited about and I've
had an awful lot of comments from a lot of people who I thought would maybe
be here tonight but who are not but I've received a lot of positive
feedback on this.
Chmiel: I guess I have a couple questions. The bandshell in itself. Is.
that going to be completely open other than the fact with the roof on it?
Complete visibility from all the Nay around?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting'
October 17, 1991 - Page 5
Scott Mendes: Right. So anytime, again if you're sitting in the grass
here or if you're out in the paving, it would be open ....
Chmiel: The other things that I see just below City Hall where the walks
come into the building on each side. Would it be adviseable to have a
sidewalk somewhere through there in the event people do pull over on one
end of the building or the other and not knowing exactly where they're
going? That they then have accessibility to walk around that front end of
the building. In other words, something like we have presently out in
front with a sidewalk.
Scott Mendes: You could walk on this paving which is actually closer to
the building than it is now.
Chmiel: Alright.
Scott Mendes: I don't know if it shows up on there either.'
Chmiel: No, that's something. Explain.
Scott Mendes: There's also, actually there's access all around the City
Hall. There's also access if you tended to park here. This is a walkway
that would obviously step down at certain points. It would lead you here.
We would maintain this access off of this area here and obviously-this
entire area would be paved at that point.
Chmiel: Also, for the senior portion there, is that coming down now from,
it would be just the opposite side of City Hall which is going to be out in
front.
Scott Mendes: Here?
Chmiel: Right. Is that also going to be handicapped accessible so people
can have that accessibility into the senior center portion?
Scott Hendes: This area here?
Chmiel: Right.
Scott Mendes: It would be accessible to this point 'which is a long run.
We have to work with these grades which obviously works against us. We'd
have to have some type of ramp system I guess occurring in this point.
Chmiel: Yeah, that's something that should be looked at and considered for
that accessibility. Are there any sidewalks in and adjacent to the
parking? Getting out of their cars rather than walking through the parking
lot? Walk on the sidewalks in front of those cars?
Scott Mendes: Here?
Chmiel: Not so much up there but for those that are, o.r the most useable
portion is used. Right in through that area.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 6
Scott Mendes: This maintains the parking lot that's out there now. We've
just shown it cuts through here so you would have to walk because this is
all a steep slope. You'd have to walk in the drive· aisles.
Chmiel: I've sat out here many times on Saturday. mornings and observed
mothers and children getting in and out of vehicles out of cars and kids
shooting out into the parking lot. If we had a little bit of a sidewalk
somewhere off in the upper portion.
Scott Mendes: Up here?
Chmiel: Yeah. As we have right out here. Just leave something, a narrow
sidewalk so they're able to walk them in on that rather than through the
parking lot because I also note that most of the people coming in pulled
off to that far side. To the upper portion of the lot.
Scott Mendes: What we were trying to do was lessesn the impact of this
whole thing upon the park so we went to the narrowest....which was 60 feet.
·
Again we did it up here so we wouldn't.encroach on. the park but those are
good points.
Chmiel: Total space that you have on the lower right hand corner. How
many, what square footage do we have within that particular area?
Scott Mendes: What is the parcel, the bank, or how much area is in that
parcel?
Gerhardt: It's about 3 acres. Little under.
Chmiel: Okay. So it'd be probably about not quite an acre. I'm sort of
trying to get those trees that go across that particular parcel as well.
What's the desireability of having that there?
Scott Mendes: The main thing is', as people are either congregating here.or
downtown, it gives them a direct shot to any activities that would be
occurring at this point. They tend to walk in straight lines and sort of
classical form but we've shown it as a.diagonal working into it. I don't
think it would, I think plan wise it looks like it cuts that area in two
which can be a plus especially if you've got some type of civic area
but it's pretty much flat.
Chmiel: I'm thinking of something the business people within the community
may utilize that particular area for special events that--they may have.
Something like Crazy Days or something of that nature...If they had the
availability and use of that area as well. Trees.themselves in all the
proposals that you're talking, I like all those trees there. If I have to
pay for them, I have to start stop thinking about it a little bit.
Scott Mendes: I think what's always' deceptive and I'll respond to the
gentleman's comment was that obviously it's a master plan and it's what's
envisioned over who knows. 5, 20 years you know. When we always do these
types of plans we show everything. Obviously phasing or whatever· would
obviously occur. I think it's also, when you take into account the·size of
the area, I guess it would be logical. Also if you look at the amount of
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page ?
parking area and paved area, obviously the City requires developers to
screen or lessen the impact of all that hard surface and I think in here
think it's very much needed to make it a desireable space as this area
would be.
Chmiel: One of the things we're trying to do is focus on City Hall. What
are the trees that we're going to put in. What would be. the finalized
heights?
Scott Mendes: The pink ones Would b'e 12 to 18 foot height. These, if we
go'with the city tree or the city emblem, maybe some type of sugar maple,
obviously those would get 40-50 loot'-hight as would obviously we want the
parking lot trees to be the biggest. Conifer trees can range 20-50 feet
obviously in a lifetime. I'm talking in a lifetime for all of these
obviously. And I think a lot of the trees, You've got some ash trees
occurring on Center Drive or Coulter, a lot of those obviously would be
saved and put into this concept. That would be part.
Chmiel: I know with the downtown center medians and the trees that we had
replaced because of the amount of ones that had died and making sure that
they were placed what was there. I agree we had probably too many trees
and one specific area almost cost me a ticket because of visibility. It
just happen to be that a highway patroler was coming down the other end.
Fortunately enough I was able to discuss that with him and didn't get a
ticket but the visibility there I didn't see him. I furthermore said to
him, I thought he was driving a little fast too, but that's besides the
point.
Scott Mendes: We have shown on the master plan that widened in the turn
off lanes. I know maybe graphically it doesn't show up but it's the same
as in the newsletter. I think it's hard to see scale when you look at
this. This is widened.
Chmiel: Right. Then the exit coming out Kerber, how far is that from.
Yeah, I guess I'm answering my own question. It's 'far enough down. I'm
thinking about the children.
Scott Mendes: Stacking?
Chmiel: Yeah stacking as well as children crossing. How close that was to
that area and we're considerable distance away from that yet.
(There was a tape change at this point .in the discussion.)
Horn: Any other comments? Is there anyone else from the public can think
of something they're like to ask?
Ashworth: ...Under State law the HRA overall plan for what it wants to
accomplish. If you go back in your plan 10 years ago, you had in there the
acquisition of the Red-E-Mix plant and Taco and in all likelihood that will
occur this next year. But it literally took us 11-12 years to get there.
I don't see where this is any different. There's not a necessity to
immediately act on this. If the HRA wanted to keep the record open for an
additional month or two months to receive comments on the downtown plan,
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17. 1991 - Page 8
we're not under any real pressure. I think one of the concern areas has
always been that if the property in front of City Hall were sold,
potentially 3 story Days Inn put in, it would change the perspective of the
downtown significantly and potentially-through this type of planning
effort, we could insure that we maintain some green in the center of our
community. Well in the future this area is the center. The downtown
commercial activity will continue to the west. Within some distant future,
this area will be the center of your commercial area. By our being able to
acquire this within the next year or two, you. start bringing in fill if
that were available to us...actual construction of the site. We're
estimating 1 to 1.5 million dollars necessary to accomplish this plan. The
largest cost factor in there is the acquisition of the existing property
which again had been noted a little, right at 3 acres. I think that we're
well aware of the price of land in the downtown area. Part of that cost
estimate differential recognizes what type of a bandshell that you may look
to in whatever number of years. There's a statement made that there is no
such thing as a free lunch. I totally agree with that statement. It has
to be paid from somewhere. One of the nice things with the tax increment
law different than what we see within in the rest of the.community, in .fact
I wish the State law could be ghanged so all properties could be handled in
a similar fashion to what occurs in a tax increment district. Specifically
if on your property at home you put a garage on there or improve your
property, you're simply going to be penalized for it. You're going to pay
more taxes because you paid that additional siding on or whatever and you
basically reap no additional benefits.- Within a tax increment district the
base taxes continue to be paid to the school o'r County but you have an
opportunity whereby the additional dollars that are generated, if you do
something in that district, can be shared. In other words, it's a means by
which you can help the businesses in that area as well as helping the City
itself. The entire downtown has been a perfect example of that. We had
I remember one of our businessman said, this is the greatest thing because
it gives me an opportunity as a businessman to pull myself up by my own
bootstraps and I really think that that Comment is true. When you have
businesses in the downtown such as the old Hanus facility...Bernie's
property, two single family residences, you had terrible under utilization
of land. You had instances where land was open but who would want to come
in and build whatever type of a facility next to some of the uses that were
occurring along main street. You had a printing facility that was
operating trucks and had the smoke and whatever else right in your
downtown. It was an opportunity for those businesses to pull themselves up
by their own bootstraps and in the process give something back to the
community. Tax increment would be proposed to be used for this project and
in my own mind it is something.that we're giving back to the business
people. There's been a lot of comments over the years and I don't disagree
with those, that a lot of money was put in in terms of landscaping and the
streets are narrow. I again don't disagree with that. We've paid people
to take and relook at things and Ben'is right. Those are more dollars.
The Mayor and Chairman is correct in terms of saying that the people who
planned that and made some of. those errors are ~o longer working for us.
But I think it's also important to remember that before those things
started, there wasn't sewer capacity down there. You couldn't put an
additional business there because you didn't have the sanitary sewer to do
it. There was no such thing as storm sewer. The Riveria filled up with.
water. The church had water up to the door. The cleaners continuously had
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 9
water. The water llnes could not provide adequate water protection. In
general the infrastructure was terrible. You may-have spent more than you
should have in terms of landscaping. Some of the trees should have been
and were pulled out. The...here, what.city employee supposedly has.
Ben Gowen: It's inmaterial. They...and they went back to a good use.
Ashworth: I guess it makes me feel better to know that they went into the
trash can and maybe an employee pulled it out of there. The way it was
stated.
Ben Gowen: It was paid for, pulled out and thrown away and reused...
Ashworth: Less than 5~ of the total cost within the downtown area went fo.r
things such as landscaping and even the curbing. We will spend dollars to
take and correct that use. You've seen means by which we can take and put
signals in which I thin are needed. Will help in terms of traffic
movement. You have seen plans in terms of how the streets will be widened.
In fact right in front of this area. I don't know that you could have
totally envisioned, even though it's only 3 years ago, that a bank would
have been proposed across the street and you would have ended up with a cut
in the island and the necessity for a right turn lane. Some of those
things you may not have known and so some of the dollars that we wilt
respend to again help the same businesses or new businesses help themself,
maybe you should have known. Maybe you shouldn't have. I think that
touches most of the questions that I had heard.
Horn: Any other questions?
Chmiel: Just maybe to piggyback on those trees'that were in the garbage
and came back. A lot of those trees that did go, the City'was compensated.
In fact I rode that rather heavily to make sure we get some dollars back
from the previous company that put that in for us. The designers of that.
We did get compensation back for a lot of those trees too.
Ben Gowen: ...can I talk again?
Chmiel: Sure.
Ben 6owen: You said Clark that you had some plans prior to this picture
that we as citizens can't evaluate from l I think it would be nice to see
what was proposed by other sources or other reasons. Not that I'm the only
guy that...sent this out to the public, see which ones .... or judge them
out. Another thing is I think something like this should be two scale in
order to judge them. It's not to scale you say, how can you judge it?
It's just an artist concept of a plan. It's not scale. You've got to have
scale. I think that the mall is inmaterial to this program or this
picture. I don't think we need a mall. It can't be utilized. You're not
going to stop at the sidewalk and walk up the mall. If you're going to
stop here, you're going to stop in the parking lot, walk around here and
come up the mall. It's not a practical approach. I'd like to see some
other types of picture plans. Did I understand you say this is going into
effect in two months?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 10
Chmiel: No, leave it open for 2 months for comments.
Horn: Leave the hearing process open.
Ben Gowen: Is there any chance of showing'other concepts besides this one
to the public so they can pick and choose a little bit or something?
Horn: We had some other presentations too didn't we?
Chmiel: Yes.
Horn: Are those available that we could let people look at them?
Ben Gowen: Well, in order to judge you've got to' look at more than one
item and it should be to scale. If it's not-to scale, you don't know what
you're looking at. These trees, a 50 foot tree here. My God, 'you're not
even going to find the building.
Horn: Especially if it's right'next to the street. See that's why I
questioned was the intent to hide City Hall because 'we have heard some
comments.
Ben Gowen: No, it's just the people in it isn't it? No, anyway I'd like
to see a little more work done on it because I think if 360 trees, shrubs
and brush in here is way over done. Even in concept and 'if it's not done
to scale, you can't design what tree or shrub or sidewalk. The car down
here for instance. That's a teeny weeny little car and a great big street.
It's not in proportion. You've got to have a proportional picture.
Scott Mendes: It's to scale.
Ben Gowen: It is to scale?
Workman: The car is? Is there a car there?
Chmiel: Yeah.
Ben Gowen: The car is 8 feet wide? THen the street is 60 feet wide. It's
impossible. It can't be to scale.
Scott Mendes: This is wider. This shows...
Ben Gowen: I know but if that's $ feet. A car's 8 feet wide right?
.-
Scott Mendes: Right. Approximately.
Ben Gowen: Well multiple that down here, you've got going to get 5 times
that, 50-60 feet.
Scott Mendes: This represents 4 lanes...
Ben Gowen: It's a tight 2.
Housing and Redeveiopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 11
Scott Mendes: No, it represents 4 Ianes. That's why the car iooks so
smaII. It doesn't represent.
Workman: It's going to be expanded. You know the ladd doesn't need to be
so expensive on this. Not listening to me.
Ben Gowen: They don't own this Iand?
Horn: We don't. No, not across the street.
Ben Gowen: No, no. I mean this side.
Horn: This side, yes.
Workman: What I was saying is the land doesn't need to be so expensive
and I guess they heard it and they ignored me over there. Really the
biggest problem that I have so far is, it is difficult to compare if you
don't really know the expenses and that's why it'd be nice to-keeP this
process open for whatever, 2 months or whatever and get figures to back up.
The difference between 1 million and 1.5 million is 50~. And what might
look like a deal at a million might not look-like it at a million and a
half. And so we're still so far off with all ~hose numbers that it's
really hard to gauge whether we're getting bang for our buck or not.
Horn: Well the problem we always have is you know we always say at this
point this is a concept but then what happens is you find out that you've
got the final architecture and the plans already to go like we did with the
shopping center and we had no idea that we were going to get flat roofs and
those kinds of things so I think we get'a little edgy about what we hear as
a concept because these things tend to get locked in before we ever find
out there's a difference. So those are some of the concerns we have and I
think it's a good idea to leave the process open for a while.
Chmiel: Mr. Chairman,'I would like to just make a motion. We can still
leave it open for discussion but what I'd like to see us do is to leave
this open for another month, or two and I would go as mubh as two. We
should also advertise this and indicate it will be on display here at
City Hall and ask for input and we'll go from there.
Horn: Is there a second to the motion to e×tend the public hearing?
Robbins: Second.
Horn: Further discussion?
Bohn: I have one question. What does that do as far as acquiring the
property?
Horn: Are we under any time constraints on that Todd?
Gerhardt: You may come out and hit a group of people and may even decide
that you don't want to go ahead with it depending on how this 2 months
comes through. I mean 2 months will not delay the acquisition of that
land.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 12
Chmiel: Yeah. I've received a lot of favorable comments on this from
people. I've not, I'll take it back. I had one. And after it was
explained then it was sort of still questionable but I didn't get a real
negative.
Ben Gowen: No, I think you've got to have it. You've got to buy'the land
but the...
Horn: I don't think any of us are comfortable totally with what we see.
Did you have a comment sir?
Resident: Just respond to the question... We have nothing pressing to...
Horn: Any other, comments anyone wants to make?
Robbins: Would it be part of this motion or another motion. Is it
possible that within this 2 months and to echo what Ben was'saying about
different plans. About getting different plans and maybe an approximate
cost for each of the plans. Would that be workable?
Gerhardt: It's difficult. I mean it's no~ like going to a grocery store
and picking out different items for cost. Again I'm sure.
Robbins: Well, I'm just echoing what Tom was saying. The range is
anywhere from a million to a million five. Is this a million five or a
million shot? Again that's kind of the question here.
Gerhardt: The fluctuation of $500,000.00 is depending on how we come
acquiring the land over there. Relocation of the tenants in the building
and determining the price. There's going to be a lot of contingencies
involved with this and difference in like you had to acquire Pony/Pauly/
Pryzmus. Bernie. I mean over a one year period the price in those things
fluctuate drastical.ly.
Robbins: So within that though, land acquisition, no matter which plan we
use should be somewhat static.
Ashworth: I think we can come back with some fairly good numbers. I guess
the one that I would worry more about' would be do you want to go real
elaborate with the bandshell or are you looking to a very austere type of a
structure? '-
Bohn: Well for now we could just have a plain piece of property fiat and
grade it and plant grass. Later on do something with it but at least we
have something to work with.
Horn: Even the backdrop there, with the grading could start forming what
we're going to have and give us some help. There is a motion and a second
on the floor to extend the public hearing for 30 to 60 days depending on
the input that we get at the next meeting. Further discussion on the
motion?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 13
Chmiel moved, Robbtns seconded to continue th® public hear/ng regarding the
proposed Central Park concept plan for 30 to 60 days. All voted [n favor
and the motion carried.
Horn: So the public hearing will be open at the next HRA meeting and
possibly the following HRA meeting a~ter that. We've instructed the staff
to have presentation material available for some of the qoncepts that we
initially looked at. Also there will be a notice in the paper regarding
that the public hearing is still open and people can view the plans here.
Is that correct?
Chmiel: Mr. Chair?
Horn: Yes.
Chmiel: I'd also like to see if we can pull this together as time goes by
Ben I'd like you to come in and take a look see too. So we can keep this
thing sort of rolling as we go along. But I like some of your comments.
Robbins: I would also encourage you, you know you were saying about the
number of people that were here for the public hearing. Believe that's why
it's a public heaving. If you know of anybody, please invite them here and
let's get their discussion as well.
APPROVE PURCHASE AGREEMENT, ~OT$ 5 AND 6. CHANHASSEN LAKES BUSINESS PARK
5TH ADDITION.
Horn: Ne had a public hearing on this last week.
Robbins: ...any changes within what we talked about last week?
Gerhardt: No. This purchase agreement outlines our discussion of last
week. I guess there is one difference. I guess you are buying it for
$2.00 instead of
Horn: That's inflation.
Workman: Deal's dead. That's a 100~ mark-up.
Robbins: Has counsel looked at this and reviewed it?
Ashwo~th: You're saying our legal counsel?
Gerhardt: You threw me. [ thought City Council.
Robbins: No, no.
Gerhardt: Yeah, Roger Knutson prepared this agreement.
Robbins: I move we accept the document as slated.
Horn: Is there a second?
Bohn: Second.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 14
Horn: Further discussion?
Robbins moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Purchase Agreement for Lots 5
and 6, Chanhassen Lakes Business park 5th Addition as presented. All voted
in favor and the motion carried.
PRESENTATION OF 1992 HOUS~N~ AND REDEVELOPMENT ~dJTHORITY IBt,IID~ET.
Ashworth: Since those were a direct mail out and not in the packet, Todd's
are upstairs and he's running up to grab them. I might note-that this past
week, Tuesday specifically we opened bids on our 1992 bonds at the City
Council. I put a copy of bids that had been received. They were very
favorable. The ones that really are of interest to the HRA, there's one
that's called a tax increment bonds 575,000. Something like that. That's
road improvement bonds out by McGlynn and associated with that district and
therefore not under the auspices of the Housing and Redevelopment
Authority. You can see that one had bids ranging from 465 to 560 for a net
interest rate of 5.55. The one that the HRA might be interested in is the
$1,685,000.00 taxable general obligation tax increment bonds of 1991 which
really provide the dollars necessary for the Market Square development.
Since in that instance we're working specifically with the developer,
shopping center, etc., etc., these are taxable bonds. In other words the
purchaser of these will pay taxes on them and that's the reason that they
carry a higher rate. Even at that', a 7.59~, I think Clark may remember
years in sitting on the City Council where we wish as a'tax exempt issue
that we could sell them for 7.5~. Later in the agenda, if we have time I
would like to go 'through the debt study. I know that's kind of like
watching paint dry but the long and the short of that is the HRA continues
to be doing very, very well. You're meeting all of your debt obligations.
...stays on line should you wish to basically see it cease in the 1995 time
frame, you could do that. The debt study has been modified to include the
cost associated with Market Square in there. On the other side of the
coin, it does not include any revenue from that pro3ect. So you're taking
absolutely the most conservative position you can take meaning that you're
spending the money but you're not getting anything back in return. Again
that document shows, and I broke out all debt of the City. I believe the
very center section is the tax increment stuff and again, if you look at
that, by the Year 2003, you're up into a 12-13 million dollar surplus
position. 3ust a tremendous district. Any question on the bond sale?
Chmiel: Did you mention the fact that everybody else had heard our bond
rating had changed?
Ashworth: No. We brought Moody's out. I really appreciate the Mayor
taking the time to go out with us. The other key. factor that I really
think helped in that rate change, upgrading was who we took them to some of
our local businesses. We had an opportunity to meet with the executives
from Rosemount. 3erome Carlson took of his time to take them through
Instant Webb. Answered questions. Talked about the viability of their
company. What they're envisioning. How they've gone through the recession
and then we went out to Prince's studio. The long and'the short of that.
was, the telephone conversations I had, the individual said something to
the effect of, he said you really have some viable businesses in that
community. In your community. I said, we're real proud of our business
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
October 17, 1991 - Page 15
group and it did result in a bond upgrade which we saw in the bids. Our
financial consultant did not know if we would get an increase effect. He
and I were both worried that we would maintain where we were. 'As you look
in those bids, we're 30 to 40 basis points underneath what his estimates
were so that's very favorable. Start multiplying 30-40 basis points times
5 million dollars times 10 years, you get some big dollars.
Horn: So the recession is good for something.
Ashworth: I guess so.
Horn: Okay. Any input on projects that the HRA should be promoting?
Gerhardt: Chairman, HRA members. Maybe I overdid it .on my ideas of making
banners but there's been a big discussion through City Hall and some people
through the business community that have asked me why we don't have banners
similar to some other cities and I constantly get this stuff through the
mail. Each one of these are different banners sales people. St. Paul,
Minneapolis have a big banner on a lot of their poles. .That's one idea.
If it's of interest to you. I could take it and talk to the Chamber to see
if they would be interested in funding a portion of it also. Some concepts
I thought of is you have the Christmas theme and then a summer theme of
some kind in downtown or some summer farmers market type of banner. You
can go the Christmas theme of joy or peace or just Christmas.
Workman: I'm sorry, I got cut off for just a ~econd.. I talked to .you a
iittIe bit about banners and Don.
Chmiel: Who hasn't.
Workman: But I don't think the lights that we are endraping from those
skinny trees down there is quite doing it. The white lights. I like the.
white light concept because it's a classy touch. I think it really
reflects off the Dinner Theatre but yeah, they just kind of drape them up
there and it looks really cheap. I think last year when I first saw them I
think we had come back from Houston. The ritzy area of Houston where they
do the trees in white lights. Unbelieveable. Now I don't know what that
costs but it appears as though they wrap the tree in these sheets of lights
all the way up to the branches are like that. It looks really elaborate.
Really classy looking. I don't know, it just seems like the lights we have
and the way they dangle and hang... Ii'd like to put a moratorium on those
lights...
(The taping of the meeting ended at this point.)
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Workman moved, Robbins seconded to approve the
Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Meeting dated September 19, 1991
as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
APPROVAL OF ACCOUNTS. Robbins moved, Bohn seconded to'approve the
Accounts Payable as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Omheim