1990 03 01HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 1, 1990
Chairman Horn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Clark Horn, Tom Workman, Jim Bohn, and Charlie Robbins
MEMBERS ABSENT: Cliff Whitehill
STAFF PRESENT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director and Todd Gerhardt, Asst.
Executive Director and Paul Krauss, Planning Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Robblns moved, Bohn seconded to approve the Minutes
of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated January 25, 1990
as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
UPDATE REGARDING THE ROGER PAULY BUILDING (BLUE BUILDING).
Horn: I think this was an infoz~Lational item only unless some people had
any questions regarding schedule. We have a pretty complete file here.
Gerhardt: I just want to update HRA a little bit on this. There were some
questions regarding, it's also included in the goals and objectives
section. The HRA this last end of December, beginning of January have
taken ownership of the little blue building. Pauly's building and I have
passed out lease agreements to both of the tenants within the facility. I
haven't gotten those back yet. One was awaiting signature until the estate
was closed out due to one of the tenants in there had passed away and once
that was closed up, he would sign the lease agreement. And the other
individual has not called me back.
Horn: Okay. So you're still waiting for the second one?
Gerhardt: Correct.
Robbins: So according to the memo then we do not need to take action on
that at this time?
Gerhardt: No, it was just if you had any questions regarding timeframe of
the raising the building and continuing to let them lease past that date or
if you would accept June 1 as the date for them to move out.
Robbins: It does say though, in here I guess I would make a motion if it's
appropriate regarding awarding bids and HRA should see a contracter and so
on as long as we're not involved now but we will be sooner or later,
I would direct staff that we need to make appropriate arrangements.
Bohn: How does it affect the construction of the parking lot?
Gerhardt: The parking lot was a question raised today by a medical group,
they called me this mbrnlng and we were wondering, they ~ere looking at a
May 1 occupancy. I gave them the bad news that they're going to occupy
Housing and Redevelop~,ent Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 2
their building with a dirt parking lot. They weren't pleased to hear that
but with the bids that we received last year and only receiving one bid and
having to rebid, put the project back about a month and a half but I still
don't think that would have given us enough time to get the parking lot in
this last fall. So I have told him we would work with him in trying to
make the best arrangements in that area over there for their tenants and
also their patrons as they use the facility. And it's going to take some
coordination on Gary's and my part in making sure we follow through on that
but I'm sure we can accommodate them and that we would look at final
completion of that parking lot in the later part of July.
Bohn: That means this building has to be down and cleared before?
Ashworth: The little blue Pauly building, actually the curbing, that was
shown as a green area so whether or not that building stayed or not doesn't
impair the parking lot construction at all. It makes it easier since now
we've got the easement or the ability to pave over what would have been the
rear portion of that property but as far as the structure itself, that
doesn't in anyway affect the parking lot.
Horn: So your bid Charlie is... proceed with the attached schedule?
Robbins: Yes and to proceed with it. It says to see a contractor and that
part in terms of raising for staff to proceed with...
Horn: Is there a second to the motion?
Bohn: Second.
Robbins moved, Bohn seconded to direct staff to advertise to take bids for
the demolition of this building in May and awarding bids in the early part
of June, 1990. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
CONSIDERATION OF SERVICES FOR DESIGNING A FOUNTAIN, PRESENTATION BY JERRY
BAILEY.
Ashworth: Maybe if I co,lid introduce Jerry and where this item came from.
After we completed the atrium addition and through the various open houses
and what not, I continued to get feedback as to what people thought of it.
The continued one that I got back was the little fountain that we have out
there. That was part of the bids that we received for the flowers and
green plant materials that we have out here so we really did not pay that
much for that particular facility or piece of work. In talking with EOS,
their initial design was around or thought was it's not that bad. Jack and
Nick both called me back saying you know, there is someway to do something.
We probably... You're putting on this addition. It has a real identity
and people walk in and you're looking at a sculpture that's really belongs
more in a 5 or 10 cent store. That led us to looking at someone who might
be able to come back with some ideas and also recognizing that we'd be
working on a very limited budget. Both Jack and Nick had given me Jerry
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Ma~ch 1, 199~ - Page 3
Bailey's name. Initially that would carry through both artists he works
with. And with that, Jerry I'll let you carry on from there.
Jerry Bailey: First of all sorry I'm late. I was actually out in the
parking lot for a while... Nick Ruehl, who you may or may not know, is an
architect who designs space, worked with my firm back when he was still a
college student so I've known Nick for many years...intern in my office
when I officed on TH 7 in St. Louis Park. My background. I'm a landscape
architect. I've been in business since about that time and so my area of
...site planning, landscape architectural designing and all sorts of these.
We have a lot of recreational projects .... we don't do as much land
planning, land use planning...Chanhassen Planning Co~,ission and Council a
number of times years ago but now what I'm doing primarily is very detailed
design built outdoor environment projects. About 2 years ago I began the
realization of another goal of mine which was to move into the art
business. Ultimately I want to create projects myself. That's one of my
goals and dreams but I somewhat by accident started working with one
sculptor from Montana and that led me into the coronation of an association
with, it was 3 others and now it's 5, 6 or 7 others. It's just an ongoing
situation and I very much enjoy it and so Nick called me one time right out
of the blue and asked if I might be, well I guess the way it started. I
took Nick through our office facility which is in Minnetonka 5, 6, 7, 8
minutes from here, and I don't know Paul whether you've seen our new studio
or the artwork or not but I have donated a space for the four artists and
now there's one artist starting to come out and work on the space to
provide a place where they can actually work and create their sculpture.
It's mainly site sculpture although we've been doing a lot of indoor pieces
as well. So when Nick toured through it, he was very interested and very
much enjoyed seeing what I was doing. I have a gallery up in the mezzanine
of my office where we're moving the finished pieces and the different
artists work in different media. We've got a couple of them work with
steel as well as other metals. Copper, bronze. They do casting. They've
done welded pieces. I have another fellow. They're not employees.
They're basically artists in residence to use the correct term. Another
fellow works in granite, marble...slate found in Montana. Then a women
who...does beautifully crafted work all the way from detailed jewerly. She
does silver work. Wonderful belt buckles and pins all the way up to very
nicely crafted work. This is one piece of one sketch...that is part of
another project. This is steel. 8th inch steel. It's laser cut. It's
actually, it's not cut by a laser. It's laser eye...very intricately
detailed and again that's even sketchy compared to what some of the things.
It all depends on the size of the head of the cutting torch and it depends
on how well refined she wants to take a piece. She can get right down into
doing very refined jewerly. Some of her work is abstract. A lot of her
work is representative art. Beautiful birds. I have a piece out in my
office about this high that's 2 great herons bursting out of a bunch of
weed grasses. This piece kind of functions right along with that. In fact
that was a reject. What we have envisioned. Don, I can't remember whether
you came up with the idea or not. I have some kind of a pass out.
I normally do that after I finish speaking so that-everyone doesn't get
ahead of me but the piece of sculpture that we've conceived for this space
is defined on page 2 of this proposal and I thought, I'd just as soon pass
them out after I go over my spiel and I'll make this very quick but the
Housing and Redevelop~,ent Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 4
idea grew out of my personal discussions with Don and Todd joined us in the
second meeting to utilize the logo of the City of Chanhassen, the maple
leaf somehow in the piece of art for that space. One of the we call,
Arteka is the name of my company and Arteka is derived from the Greek
word...constructing of the land... We now call the art studio that we
created Studio A s,umbolizing our involvement and so I put this in the form
of a proposal and I figured you might to just get right down to the heart
of how we would suggest working for the City. This is a proposal to design
and create and install and the finally adjust and even become involved in
the dedication if you wanted to have a dedication ceremony for it, a piece
of sculpture that would rise up above the planter out in the atrium there.
This sketch, I made the mistake just before I came over here, I had to
touch it up with some color and I'm not going to pass this around. I just
want to show you a quick image of what we're thinking of. The planter is
shown behind and you're kind of looking back at Don's office which is over
here. This would be a piece, it would be a fountain at the base, built
base of it right in amongst the plants. We would move the plant materials
around in that planter. We'd make a naturalistic fountain edged with
actual real boulders. We've done this before in a nu~,ber of cases. We
would have a rubber membrane, it's a 3~ mil rubber membrane that's totally
hidden from view but it actually holds and contains the water so it doesn't
leak and then a very small recirculating pump. Not to dissimilar probably
to what's in that unit out there but if you get, and I wouldn't want it to
make as much noise as this one does. I'd want to just see some water
trickling over these boulders and falling into the lower ponds. There's
two levels of ponds and a nicely crafted fountain, probably 3 feet by 3
irregular shaped and again the natural boulders. Above that would be the
actual sculpture. I don't like to call it a mobile although it would move.
The theme of this sculpture is and the name of it would be descent. It
would symbolize the descent of a maple leaf primarily in autumn of the year
and the leaves would be about 1 1/2-2 times life size and we were playing
around with actual pieces. This is 16 inch metal and these were very
quickly cut out of a blow up of the actual Chanhassen maple leaf. We
worked with that to this degree of refinement and there would be 3 or 4 of
these leaves. There would be veins. They'd be built out of, created out
of copper material and then acid etched. It'd be a mottled surface...a
more refined version but about that size. These leaves would be suspended
from a branch that would be suspended from the molliums of glass above. A
very crafted, a very high degree of quality. The wires as I said would be
copper as opposed to...which is used many times which decomposes and
someday 3 years from now that would probably break and fall down. Copper
wire could be vandalized almost like anything could and that's one of my
concerns that I wanted to ask...to see if this thing might be vandalized
very easily... It's a topic of discussion and once I'm done I'll leave
these things with you and you can discuss it, but then from the branch
there'd be 3 or maybe 4 leaves suspended again s,umbolizing the descent of a
maple leaf and then 3 or 4 actually drilled in and embedded on the edge of
the pond. That's the concept. It would be something that I think would
catch everyone's interest. There would be sound equipment involved in the
sculpture. You'd hear the trickling of water as naturally sounding as
what's out there. That kind of squirts down the water a little louder than
it really should be. I'm thinking of water that actually tumbles down a
couple little boulders. We do huge waterfalls that tumble. In fact I
Housing and. Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 5
built the waterfall down in Eagan in the entrance to the waters where
Northwest Airlines is located... Huge $75~,0~.00 project waterfall thing.
Gerhardt: I've seen it. It's big.
Jerry Bailey: There'S actually 3 waterfalls...stocked with trout and it's
all lit. This I see as a very simple structure that again we would try to
nestle into the planter and just create a fun sculpture. So I think that's
all I wanted to go over. We'd be very pleased to work on it with you. This
is our proposal to, which explains the work to be performed including
several meetings with you. Any number that you'd want. We typically will
start work on a piece of art and then before it's finished, present it to
you. Maybe at a meeting like this so you can see the current status of
completion. If you have any input. We can take that into consideration in
the completion of it. We typically charge a down payment and that's all
itemized in here and I don't think I have enough copies for all of you. A
few might have to share. Really one of these, one signed...for us to
proceed. There's no obligation whatsoever based on the conceptualization
of the piece. It's a very simple process. It's the type of business that
I do in this day and age.
Bohn: In terms of the timing, what would be the timing from start to stop?
Is that listed?
Jerry Bailey: Okay, we would begin, it is. And in working with Don, we'd
have it finished prior to the 4th of July. I believe we probably could
even do it sooner but Don thought that it should be done by the 4th of July
so you could have a ceremony of some sort.
Gerhardt: I said that.
Jerry Bailey: Oh, I'm sorry.
Gerhardt: I just through the dedication could be a part of the 4th of July
festivities.
Jerry Bailey: I'm sorry, I got that mixed up. But with that, why don't I
just hand these out and then you can discuss it...unless you have any
questions.
Ashworth: I mentioned Jerry, since no one has, we haven't talked about
this at all so I have no idea if the HRA thinks this is a dumb idea, good
idea. I just asked Jerry to present his ideas and then maybe if he will be
leaving and then if you can give me your input as to whether or not we
should someway pursue this or not pursue this. I can fully appreciate it's
a little bit far out for some of the others but in regard to relations of
the other businesses you discussed, it's something you'll have to decide if
you want to... With that I'll pass these out.
Workman: I thought he had a bust of the Mayor there. Water coming out of
his ears.
Robbins: Jerry, how is Dean doing?
.-
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 -Page 6
Jerry Bailey: Very good.
Robbins: I know Dean from a while ago.
Jerry Bailey: In fact I just had a meeting with him 45 minutes ago.
Robbins: He's your brother?
Jerry Bailey: He's not. My brother works with me also. Dean and I just
share the same last name.
Robbins: I've known Dean for a long time.
Jerry Bailey: Very good. Thank you for your time.
Horn: I guess I was a little curious...you had mentioned something in the
report about having some funds available and we should decide what we want
to use them for. What is the size of the funds and if we didn't use them
for this, what would be some other options?
Ashworth: In talking with Jerry, I had looked and as of right now what
that is is that's a building expansion fund. I'm saying the money is to be
used to carry out the expansion of the library. It's about $5,~.~0 is
what's in there and so I'm sure that he geared his proposal right into
that. I saw it was $4,60~.~.
Horn: ...probably should have been able to figure that out.
Robbins: No, the name Arteka, I've known of, as I mentioned, I've known a
person that has worked there to people I've worked and we've had some bids
on our own house through Arteka to do some work for us. They do a nice
job. Well respected.
Jerry Bailey: I've worked as a landscape architect for many years and
that...
Horn: I did notice a few names in this past client list that you might
recognize.
Workman: I think it's an appropriate. I don't think it's silly. It's
something... I was thinking it'd be further out.
Robbins: I don't think it's far at all. I think it's in good taste. I
think this is great.
Workman: Yeah. You're always going to hear, how much did we pay for metal
leaves and a branch? Somebody will say that but...
Robbins: I guess back to just a statement and maybe I missed something...
I think Clark might have started in terms of building expansion. Why the
HRA is involved in that building and how does that all...
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 7
Ashworth: Actually the dollars, the atrium itself was built with HRA
dollars as well as parking lot construction. Those were two valid things
that the HRA dollars can in fact be used for. The addition itself, the
public safety wing and this part of the building were budgeted under the
City's budget. In other words, general fund dollars that basically carried
out those two but interconnect itself, this area out here was paid for 100%
by HRA.
Robbins: So this is just basically, if you will, one of the expenses we
didn't put in there and now we want to put it in now approach?
Ashworth: Yeah.
Horn: Well there was some money left and what we've got didn't work out
all that well.
Robbins: I think it would make a nice accompaniment. It'd be great to me.
Horn: What's your feeling on this Don? As I see it, this is something
that the HRA would be doing? It wouldn't be so much necessarily for the
downtown but more the city proper? I guess I'd like to get your
perspective. I didn't mean to put you on the spot but I just would like
to some other perspective.
Mayor Chmiel: I looked at this just tonight. I'm not sure yet. I think
for exactly what we have, in fact I had thought seriously, I have an 8 foot
fig ficus in my house which is a weeping fig tree. It's about this big and
I was thinking...
Gerhardt: Getting tired of raking up after it?
Mayor Chmiel: Well it's 10 times bigger than that. But I have to give a
little thought to this before I come to a decision.
Horn: Another option might be to say to the City, we've got, the HRA has
some extra money available and maybe you would come up with a project that
you think would be approriate, if this one isn't, related to facilities or
whatever.
Workman: Or requests for what they think it ought to be spent for.
...area or something else.
Horn: Not speaking for just the HRA but also myself. This might be
something that we want to get a little more involvement in from the City.
Robbins: But also being realistic, I think for the dollars, we're not
spending a lot. We're not spending a lot of money here and I think we
spent a lot more, more of just a motion than go ahead and do it. The point
is, I think to spend this much, the $5,000.00 might not warrant a whole lot
of involvement I guess to be realistic. I guess I would direct the City or
ourselves if we think this is appropriate to do it. If not, find another
project but for $5,000.~, I don't know that that's worth a lot of...
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 8
Ashworth: Talking with both Nick and Jack today, they feel that this group
would really like to do. When they came in here they felt that this was
something, you might say a way to promote themselves. Okay? And I really
think that you're getting pretty quality product for what you're paying for
it. I really think they're taking this down to kind of bottom dollar.
Horn: I agree with that and I really don't know how many options we really
have to do other things.
Robbins: The $4,6~0.00, where else would we spend it and come back with
something that would be "pretty". I think this is kind of nice myself.
Horn: That was my first question when I read through this. What other
options would we have? What else could we put this towards and I think
they are somewhat limited to in what we really can put our money towards.
Ashworth: That's true. At this point, since there's been literally a
merging of the City and HRA dollars, we have to initially make estimates
and make choices for those funds so they're, and building expansion is one
of those dollars.
Workman: I don't think it'd be a bad idea if we all got up and stood out
there and looked at it.
(At this point the commission members went into the atrium.)
Ashworth: It would make my job much easier. I mean legally I could take
and go back. Transfer those dollars to some other type of account. I
think everyone would be better off. The red portion is how the dollars
were used. Leave them right in the building account.
Robbins: Which all the way around turns out to be an easy deal?
Ashworth: Yeah. And if I turn around and use those dollars.
Horn: Even in terms of building account, I would assume we don't have all
that many options in what we can do.
Ashworth: Again, you really shouldn't be using the HRA dollars for
anything associated with the office structure itself. The state lawns been
modified so that HRA dollars are not to be used to build municipal
buildings...
Robbins: It can't be anything capital.
Ashworth: But courtyard areas are a specific area that would be allowed so
that's how you got that one back in.
Workur, an: I think we need something that identifies with the City more than
the St. Pauly girl out there because I don't think that means a whole lot.
I think we need to do something. How it will be perceived...
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 9
Horn: I guess you have more of a problem with that than some of the rest
of us.
Workman: ...but it's always that perception thing. It's the clock tower
perception.
Horn: That was what prompted my original comment is they would, I'd like
to see this be something that we would get support on doing. It's not
something that would be viewed as unnecessary or extravagent or whatever.
Workman: Maybe we need to...a price. Make a $2~0.~ thing and have the
City pay $5,~.00 and...
Workman moved, Bohn seconded to table this item and to direct staff to
solicit input from the City Council as to their feelings on the sculpture
for the atrium. All voted in favor and the motion carried..
(There was a tape change at this point in the meeting.)
STAFF PRESENTATION REGARDING BRAD JOHNSON'S PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF WEST
79TH STREET, PAUL KRAUSS, PLANNING DIRECTOR.
Krauss: ...as I stated in the staff report, we think that this kind of
concept has some merit. We acknowledge it's a real tough site to develop.
With multiple property ownerships. The deteriorated conditions of some of
the properties and...building, access is really tough and we think it's a
real important one to the central business district. That it has great
capability... We've indicated to Brad that we think developing some sort
of a PUD has a lot of merit. It's really the best way to put them together
all these properties and tying themt in together in a package that makes
sense for the community. The mix of uses is a little bit tougher to pin
down. The fast food restaurant there, you know fast food restaurants cause
some problems on their own merits but it's probably a good site for that
sort of thing. The idea of an auto mall, if that's what it becomes, is
also probably a good thing. Those sorts of services are needed in the
community and it's always been in that sort of a use anyhow so is somewhat
consistent historically. The big story, as I say, it's kind of tough to
pin down and I indicated in the report that I was talking to Brad a couple
weeks ago where he brought in Frtiz Hanus who I knew from my time in
Minnetonka, he was on the Council there. Fritz has a school bus company
and with Brad's latest concept he would temporarily have the school bus
company in the Hanus building and one of my reactions to that and basically
my reaction was, what for? What does that give the community? You're
replacing a truck garage with a school bus garage. There's not a net
benefit. It's also kind of tough to tie down what's going to happen with
the truck yard behind the Hanus building. Whenever I've asked Brad about
that, it's not clear if that's going to be cleaned up at this time. But
again, I think in general that type of a mix of uses does make some sense
on that corner. We keep having a recurring theme here that access is going
to be the primary consideration here. Really what's going to drive what
could happen on that site. Brad's plans tpyically, or most of the plans
Housing and Redevelop~,ent Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 10
seem to rely on an access road that goes through from Great Plains to TH
101 which was one of the earlier versions that was shown in some of the
previous studies. We're becoming more and more convinced at the staff
level, Don may expand on that if he wishes to, that the access at TH 101
really is problematic. The new TH 101 intersection. We're going to buying
up some property probably to make that thing happen. Access is very tough
and the final design of that intersection really we concluded that if it
comes out over there, it's going to be tough. It's going to be safety
related issue. So we're probably looking at placing most of the reliance
on Great Plains. Now that may work but it's a very tight intersection and
you've got the corner of TH 5 and you've got the street going off to the
west in front of Amoco. A short distance north we've got this new street
coming in and then you've got the railroad tracks. All of those things can
combine to a real dangerous situation. Gary Warren and I have discussed it
frequently, we think that really the key to this area is to get some
traffic assistance. Tell us what the capacities are there. Tell us what
kind of turning movements we can support. What kind of levels of traffic.
Then go back in and design the site to meet that number or make sure you
don't exceed that number. Brad's worked with us on this to a degree. You
can see on that final plat there's a turn lane coming into the property.
There's two exit lanes which I felt were imperative because if you have a
train sitting there and somebody wants to turn north, they're going to have
to sit it out and block the whole thing. Brad's concept is to make that a
private street. Quasi-public but privately owned. We've indicated that
we're not sure how we'll react to that but clearly it's going to have a
public type function and has to be designed to handle traffic that we would
experience on a public street like 79th Street is quite comparable to that.
And we're now sure if it all fits. That's a recurring theme here too. We
haven't worked with scaleable plans. It's_very tough to see if there's
enough dimension in here to support the road that we think we need to give
us an idea if there's enough green space to give us an idea if the
circulation works. Basically these are the plans that we've been working
off of. There's nothing that's been professionally prepared as you'd
normally see in a package that comes before you or the Planning Commission
or City Council. We've got some real severe reservations with internal
circulation as well. I think you can see from this plan that he's got a
main entrance into Hardee's as you're turning in off of Great Plains. To
me that's, I'm a planner. I'm not a traffic engineer. I'd like to think I
know something about it but I'll defer it to the experts but my gut
reaction to that, and Gary Warren's is that that's wholly inappropriate.
You're really asking for a hazardous situation over there. Basically
you've got traffic that's slowing down, turning right and as soon as
they're turning right, somebody might be sitting there waiting to get into
Hardee's. There's a lot of potential conflict. The plans generally show
some sort of access over Amoco. Now this latest version has been modified
to downplay the need for that somewhat but it's still in there. I'm not
certain whether Amoco goes along on this one or not and I would really
leave that up to Brad to tell you that latest on that but I spoke to them
about a month ago and, Chris Kristoffek from Amoco and they had a lot of
reservations with it. They were not sure that they were going to go along
with anything so that may have changed in the meantime. I don't know. But
there's a real concern for how that lays out. The rest of our input is
basically the kinds of things that we deal with when any other developer
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 11
walks in the door. We say how are you going to take care of your
drainage? Are you going to give us an architectural concept that makes
some sense? Brad's looking for a PUD here and it's always been the City's
position that you've got to buy a PUD. You've got to give the City
something back in return. So far I'm not convinced it's there. It may
come together and I acknowledge this is a very tough way to develop to and
put together and Brad is working very hard to put these properties together
but so far I'm not sure the package does it. Now we're more than happy to
keep working with Brad or whoever, if you select somebody else, whoever's
going to be putting this site together. We think it's a real important
one. We think it has a lot of potential. I really don't have a
recoF~endation for you tonight as such and this is not a staff report.
We're not recommending anything. Brad's not here to defend it or give some
input but I think the only reco~endation I would give to you is to stress
the need that we see at a staff level for some expertise in the traffic
area. That's really going to drive it for us and we'd like to be able to,
as I said, work it backwards. Know what the capacities are and work it
backwards from there. With that I'll take any questions.
Robbins: Paul, just some general questions. One is, are we in a rush to
do anything on this?
Krauss: We're certainly not.
Robbins: I mean we're not faced with any time tables to develop the land
or to do anything so really if we do it now or 2 weeks or 2 months or a
while, we're really not under the gun here to do anything?
Krauss: No. I think the only thing...
Robbins: That's just more of a general question so if you will, explore a
lot of things yet.
Krauss: Oh sllre.
Robbins: Secondly, with regard to Amoco. Now I've talked to Gary and
I know Gary...well. He's under just a general that Amoco wants to do
something to turn his station into becoming basically a pumper. Is that
what you're saying then? That's going to happen. He thinks it's going to
happen. He's not sure when and I guess that might turn this to do
something. Because Amoco might apply some pressure.
Krauss: That's the only time constraint that's in here.
Robbins: That'd be under our control.
Krauss: Well yeah it is because Amoco already has approval and...and they
actually have a building permit issued. The only thing that was holding it
up, well there are a couple of things.
Gerhardt: They're ready to go in the ground.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 12
Robbins: I know they are and then another portion, maybe this might be a
dumb question but we've talked about always the access coming off of Great
Plains. Is there any reason, either legally or mechanically, why you can't
access off of TH 5?
Krauss: Yes. TH 5, a state highway, especially one...the City had a real
good fight on their hands to get the new Market Blvd.. It would be an...
Robbins: I'm not saying that's the right way. I'm just more open to
suggestions.
Krauss: There's not enough room between the two intersections to safely
allow vehicles coming on and off.
Ashworth: I have a feeling one of the reasons you're seeing a flurry of
action on this is that Brad Johnson has a partner, I believe it's Gary Kirt
on this particular project. They've held it for a period of time and I
think that Mr. Kirt kind of wants to either do something or get out of it
and that's the reason that Brad's trying to do something quicker.
Robbins: And just looking at it in general, in terms of the way the
accesses are to Amoco and so on, has Amoco given us any thoughts of what
they would like to do in terms of that because they might have a different
way to access it? Or basically have we told them what to do?
Krauss: This plan is representative of what Amoco had approved in their
site plan in terms of where the new building's going to be and new gas
island.
Robbins: So they would feel comfortable with the way it's laid out then?
In general.
Krauss: Well yeah but they don't like the access particularly and in
talking to Chris Kristoffeck. It's really funky the way the cars would
have to...
Robbins: Well to me and I'm not saying the word isn't terrible but it
looks to be very awkward to have cars in and out of the same area of,
I shouldn't say Amoco but in terms of that style of operation because a
person I know has an Amoco, food and fuel now and they converted, well they
changed the accesses and it's very awkward the way this one's laid out.
Krauss: Well Amoco has also shown us plans. It's not on their approved
site plan but they've got long term plans to put their own multi-bay car
wash back there. Right where that access drive is and we haven't approved
it but obviously that conflicts with this plan in several respects.
They're not going to want competition and they're sure not going to allow
somebody to go across their property to do it.
Workman: This doesn't look like it's real to scale or anything. It looks
like we're giving this much more room than it looks like. It looks like
that Amoco and the Hardee's are really far apart. We don't have that,
there's not that much room there is there?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1996 - Page 13
Robbins: There really is not that much space there.
Workman: I think this is deceiving. I don't know, the Hanus bus garage
you know. Brad Johnson told us this is the most visible, most highly
trafficed, coF~,ercial retail area in the city and...
Robbins: And ask him why we'd want a bus building in there?
Workman: Then why would you want this bus building in there and then, I
wouldn't be moving too fast to get Hardee's in there I'll tell you that. I
mean I eat at Hardee's. I personally love it but going head over heels to
get a fast food restaurant in there doesn't...
Robbins: Regardless of Hardee's, I guess back to what you're saying Tom in
terms of you've got Amoco type process. You've got a fast food... Whether
it's Hardee's or McDonalds or whatever it is, apparently it's convenience
food. That will generate a lot of traffic. No matter which way you cut
it, it's going to generate a lot of traffic going north. I don't think
Great Plains, the way it's set up, will accomplish to hold that much
traffic. I think you'll have a stacking problem on TH 5 because of the
cars turning into Amoco and turning into...
Workman: There will be 4 lanes there or 5.
Robbins: Well regardless you're still going to have cars waiting to get
into either Amoco or into, the way it's laid out right now, it will be a
stacking problem. Well you know more than I do about that.
Horn: ...turn off lane plus two other lanes on TH 5 but I think the
overall traffic.
Robbins: I think it's going to end up to be a real problem.
Krauss: Well that's the same gut reaction we've been having. This
represents a plan that's modified to the extent that he can do it right now
to accommodate our concern. I don't have any idea whether it works or not
and that's why I want the traffic expertise.
Bohn: I think there should be a traffic study. I don't want a bus garage
or anything. It's a nice, could be a nice piece of property for something
that looks nice there. There's so much junk there.
Robbins: And also, it's not shown but just being realistic, where the road
is, it's showing that the traffic, you have a southbound car or truck
making a left turn. If you go into the Hardee's or into the Amoco. I'm
sorry, well look. If you have 2 cars that are stacked up, you could get
back of the tracks. There does not appear to be a lot of turn space there
to have a stacking back. That isn't negative. I'm just stating a
question.
Krauss: It's also tough frankly for us to work off of these kind of
sketches. We encourage developers to come in and sit down with us as early
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
Ma~ch 1, 1990 - Page 14
as they can and often times they'll start out with something like this but
at some point they get some professional assistance. They get some
scaleable plans and we can all sit down and we can measure this. Say well
how much of a setback do we really have from the railroad tracks. I can't
tell that off of this and there's a whole level of detail that we can't
give Brad or you because we don't know the answers basically.
Workman: Who designs that detail? Brad?
Krauss: The developer.
Workman: Should this traffic study be taken...all the way down past the
Burdick property? All of downtown and Market Blvd., the grocery store?
Robbins: It should because it's going to impact us.
Horn: I assum, ed that's what in our goals and objectives when they're
talking about traffic study for the downtown, that would include the whole
thing. Am I right on that?
Krauss: Do you know what's going on?
Ashworth: Just in those last few days there have been about 3-4 different
items that have come up. One of which was a report to the City Council
dealing with the traffic study issue. And it outlined problems that we're
potentially facing down in this area. Tom has some very definite concerns
as to 78th Street. The configuration and the adequacy for handling
traffic. We'll get an opportunity later, I'd like to make the commission
aware of some development proposals that are being considered for this area
over in here. All three of those, all tie back to one common subject.
Traffic. That report again went to the City Council concluded that staff
is recommending that we bring in a traffic consultant. That we would
recommend that you not use Benshoof. Not use BRW because I think that some
of their work is really in question here. Are the driving lanes for the
downtown sufficient or not. I think that we need to take and have Howard
Needles or, be the ones who are looking at this and looking objectively and
giving the answers.
Horn: That was my concern some months ago when we were talking about, we
seemed to be looking at this in one project at a time. Deal with those
traffic issues and I said at the time I don't think we have an overall
traffic plan for this area. The whole downtown area. You could argue that
should you, you know how do you fund something like that if you don't do it
on a project by project basis. We're saying here the developer would have
to fund a portion of it. I don't know if that's a relunctance to having an
overall plan or what it is but I believe that's what we need and this would
all be part of that eventually.
Ashworth: Again, we did not have time to get this onto your agenda. We
will have it on the next and again, I'm kind of hopeful that we do have to
have a special meeting because there's about 4 items in here, all of which
are quite important.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 15
Horn: I still have other concerns. One of them is related to the PUD
concept. I fully agree with that concept, especially for an area that's
difficult like this. One of my concerns though is that since this is an
HRA project, that we would contribute to it, I think we have to be a little
careful as to what we're doing in terms of the quality on the thing because
in effect we're raising our own price and that's what's going to happen.
The more stipulations we put into an overall, what do you give to the City,
this is kind of what the City is giving to themselves in terms of backing
this project as an HRA project so I think you have to be a little
reasonable there when it comes to what we insist and how much we want to
contribute to it. Because the last meeting we heard this was going to
change us from a 3 year to a 6 year program, for the HRA and we're going to
be kind of sensitive to that sort of thing. And the comments were made at
that time that this was over and above what would be considered a normal
ordinance type of thing that's driving that.
Krauss: Well you know I becam, e cognizant of that issue when it was raised
at the last meeting that I wasn't at and I was a little taken aback by it.
Really. Brad came to your meeting basically saying that he met with us and
that we said retention ponds would be needed and that we'd be looking for
landscaping and architectural improvements. I thought that was relatively
bottom line stuff. I mean everybody deals with that. Brad went back to
you and said well that's going to cost more and I guess I don't understand
where he was coming from on that.
Horn: I don't either. That's why I asked that question.
Workman: A site improvement.
Krauss: Yeah, I mean drainage was something that Brad got a little upset
about and I said well where did you think the water was' going to go?
You're really going to have to do something to take care of it? Well we'll
have to get more money then. 'I don't know. The money is your side of the
equation. We're just trying to put together a project that we can be proud
of.
Horn: I guess what we asked for at the time and I'll expand on again is
that we would like to know what we would be asking for over and above if
this were a non-PUD project? Are we creating more expense because it's a
PUD? Those are the kinds of things we're going to want to sort out in this
project.
Workman: What were the extras we asked down at Market Square?
Krauss: I think we got final architecture. We made some demands on them
for signage. We got better than normal landscaping. We required them to
co~it to uses on the outlot. I don't know what else.
Ashworth: I think you're talking about 2 different things. Normally as
part of the PUD, just to get a PUD, the developer has to give which is what
you're referring to. Brad is kind of relying in terms of well, if I give
more, then you've got to pay me more and those two things don't correlate
together at all.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 16
Robbins: This is probably one of yours, this is more of a philosophical
question I guess. Take the entrance. We're saying this is one of the
major entrances into Chanhassen. When I enter it, do I really want to say
our major entrance, look for the Amoco and the Hardee's restaurant? I mean
is this, I agree it's a hard piece of land to develop and you know more
about that than I do but really is that the best use? I mean I'm not
saying the best use is that. Would there be other uses of the land that
might accomplish the same thing and let Amoco be there without a fast food
restaurant and a gas station?
Horn: To expand on that too Charlie, my concern there is if you want that
type of thing and we do call it a PUD, it gets back to Paul's comment about
the architectural design which I think was our concern initially when this
came up. Were we going to see a regular old building sitting there. Maybe
what we want to do is to get some more creative architectural styling to
this whole thing. Not the traditional Amoco. Conventional Hardee's store.
Maybe we want to do something that looks a little nicer and I don't know
that it will have to cost that much.
Workman: To what degree do we have control over telling somebody you can't
put a Hardee's there?
Horn: Well you can't but I think you can say, as an HRA project we've got
a certain architectural image that we're trying to bring to the City.
Workman: What if the Hardee's doesn't ask you~
Gerhardt: But you don't have to provide any public assistance to it either
unless you meet these certain criteria.
Workman: But Hardee's maybe wouldn't be asking for any.
Gerhardt: Well they are.
Krauss: In the whole project they would. This site can't, in all
probability, this site can't be developed to normal ordinance requirements.
It takes a PUD to do it and that gives the City Council a lot of leverage
over whether or not you buy it. And there are ways, there are a lot of
chain architecture these days, and they're making them compatible. Brad
set up a meeting with Hardee's and Todd and I they brought the people in
here and they were talking about well, is this a M-4 building? And M-36
and we basically said we don't care what you call it, it's in downtown
Chanhassen. It's not going to look like that.
Gerhardt: They had I would say 10 to 12 drawings of buildings that they
choose from. They call them L-854 and M-543 and he was going through his
file and then they started arguing between the~, and then Paul and I left.
Robbins: And Paul, I have two more questions. The last building which is
the existing Hanus building. Now according to this, to go into a school
bus versus whatever was in there, a truck, how is that tying into the
restaurant? That's just a general question.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 17
Workman: The bus drivers go there for coffee.
Robbins: Go there for coffee. Makes sense to me. That's the question is
going to be the compatibility. Then also it says, to the far right, to the
future development. That's going to have to fit into this too.
Krauss: Yeah, but I've never seen that. I know other people that have.
Unless there's a lot of plans floating around.
Workman: Isn't that going to be our property?
Krauss: Well that depends on what we do. Let me expand on that and I'm
glad you asked because Brad brought Fritz Hanus into my office and I've
known Fritz for a lot of years and he's the kind of guy you can deal fairly
with. I said look Fritz, that's under CUP right now as a truck facility.
I looked through the file and I think there's a lot of conditions of the
CUP that they're in violation of right now and I said I don't know. I'm
going to have to ask the City Attorney. Maybe we're not in a position to
stop you from putting buses in that building but I know that building's not
going to last because if you've got a lot of school buses, you're going to
have to build a larger facility than that. I said there's no way in hell
we'll back you on that so it's not going to fit your long term goals. And
I've since had conversations with our City Attorney and sent him the CUP
file and he doesn't believe we have any obligation to put school buses in
there at all so I think it's pretty well shut down now as an idea. Now the
auto mall type of concept that Brad's talked about in the past I guess I
don't have any problem with it. The buildings are tied together. There's
some real attractive looking auto malls. For what they are, they're
functional buildings.
Robbins: Well like the one that's in Hopkins where they have right about
on 15th there and whatever this street is, Excelsior Blvd.. Where they've
tied all of their automotive and related to a mall. I think that's a neat
operation the way that one's set up.
Krauss: And I've seen the same company do a much better job than that.
That was a very tight sight.
Robbins: But it works well for what's going. It looks nice. I think that
would work well here.
Krauss: And they're relatively low traffic. I mean you bring your car
in...and then go there.
Horn: I think the sense that I'm hearing is we'd like to see a project in
here. It should be a PUD. We'd like to see something that at least would
show something a little more attractive up than what we're envisioning this
to be at this point. Obviously we're going to have to really watch this
one because this has a high risk associated with it as I see it. Because
this could real~y look bad if it wasn't done right. Again, I don't have a
good feel for the economic capability of this property but I would expect
it might be pretty good. We could justify...development. Any other
questions?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 18
Bohn: If we have some traffic studies...
Horn: Yeah, I agree.
Robbins: Do we need to do anything...or was this more of an update?
Workman: Do we need to make a demand from Brad that you'd better get it in
more detail and gamble that it's going to go or not?
Ashworth: It's really just an update.
Works, an: But I mean are we going to need to make a demand that we cannot
move or do anything without more detail.
Horn: I think we've given our sense to Paul. Do you feel you know wh~re
we're coming from? Maybe you have some questions of us.
Krauss: I think I'm pretty clear. It sounds like we're talking on the
same wave length. The concept's got some merit but it needs a whole lot
more work and the traffic is key.
Robbins: I think though and again in a layman's term and there's a
layman's position, but if Amoco starts making some waves sooner than we
think they might be doing it, we probably should have something in place
because if Amoco does their own thing and then we're done.
Krauss: I think it's pretty clear that Amoco is going to do their own
thing and they may do it in the very near future. I don't know what's
going to stop them now from doing that. Unless Brad manages to... in the
very near future, everything I hear from them is they want to break ground.
Bohn: They want to start May 1st.
Krauss: That's what I've heard.
Horn: And I don't know that we'd ever be in a better bargaining position
with them at all.
Robbins: Well not bargaining but just to make sure that what they're going
to do, they want to do is making sure, hopefully the look fits into what
we'd like the rest of it to look like. I mean the way it sounds, it's a
given Amoco's going to do this.
Krauss: We have no leverage over it..
Robbins: It's also a given they're going to do that. They're going to put
it in. Hopefully the other, the Hardee's or whatever fits into the whole
theme so it's a similar type of theme there.
Horn: About the only leverage we may have is to say that you don't have to
go along with what we're trying to do at this point but if you have any
plans to expand on the site, you'd better think again but going along with
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 19
an overall plan. That's probably the only leverage we've got at this
point. And that's not much. Anything else?
Bohn: Obviously Amoco doesn't plan, or we could make them move something
to another site.
Robbins: They own the land there.
Horn: No, and I'm not sure that we've really set a good working
relationship with Amoco on their last approval. It became somewhat of an
adversarial thing because of this proliferation of convenience stores. We
tried to do something about it and found out we had very little power to so
I guess it's an uphill battle to get them to really bend much.
Bohn: Right now Amoco's only, on their property, they've only got that one
entrance in and out.
Horn: Any other com~,ents or questions on that? I don't think we need to
take any action on that.
Gerhardt: Brad will probably be coming in for a copy of these Minutes so
he'll probably go through them. He comes in and so he can have that
feedback. He's on vacation this week.
Krauss: In fairness to Brad too, maybe I should have brought this up and I
didn't. Brad called me up about 4:30 this evening from Montana and asked
that the item be pulled. Basically my response was this is no official
action and we were just relating it to the information.
Ashworth: I thought the last time it was kind of off on the wrong foot.
Brad got before the HRA and started going through his proposal, almost
talking as though here's feedback. Things are fine and all the rest of it
and yet we really had not gone through our staff so I think to develop
things by which we make sure that the planning reports get to the HRA is
important.
Horn: I think one other comment too in terms of dealing with Brad. If
he's not aware of it already, he should be aware that we're going to look
very closely at what his "extra requirements" are and he's going to be
coming back to try and leverage more out of us and that's going to have to
make a lot of sense... Does everybody agree with that? Okay. Let's go
onto item 5.
HRA GOALS AND OBJECTIVES.
Horn: Just an initial comment on this. I was happy to see this list and
schedule. It looks pretty complete to me unless somebody else has some
juggling they're like to do with the schedule or some other projects they
want to include on that.
Workman: What's the downtown business meeting?
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 1990 - Page 20
Horn: That's a meeting that was suggested by the City Council that the HRA
meet with the business people in town. I think it's a really good idea.
What's the date on that again?
Workman: Either May or June.
Horn: Yeah. Is that good enough? I guess, and I'm glad you brought that
up because...
Gerhardt: That was one I was going to bring up. I know we were going to
try and get them here in January and do it before the develop~,ent season.
That can be moved up to any time.
Horn: I think that's something that we should proceed on. So my
recommendation is that we try to move that up.
Workman: Next week Paul and I are going to go down to the Housing, Met
Council's Housing Conference. Jack Kemp's speaking and stuff so maybe we
can get some proposals on the H in the HRA. We'll come back with all sorts
of good ideas.
Horn: I don't know if I've mentioned that to you in the past but the last
housing recession that we went through, the HRA actually did look into
getting more into the H side of our name. The proposal was that we could
do something on a financing side to assist and our idea was to assist local
builders. We were really'frustrated at that time on the Council because
all we were getting were these, the Warren Thompson houses and that type of
thing. Since the economy has slowed, we thought maybe we could do
something in terms of financing housing at that time but there... We
invited all the local builders in and showed them... They weren't
interested in working with us. I still think it's a good program. We're
really not suffering too much from trying to have to encourage builders to
build houses in Chanhassen but at that time we were.
Gerhardt: One of the dirty words brought up at one of the caucuses was
that subsidized housing. And that there's a 6 year waiting list for
subsidized housing in Carver County for anybody that would walk in the door
today.
Ashworth: What do you mean dirty word?
Gerhardt: Some people don't like subsidized housing. But I mean, at some
of the caucuses that was brought up and said that there was a bigger need
for that in Carver County and some of the businesses that you do have in
the industrial park and the wages that are brought out of that, you don't
have those people living in the community. That is some of the concerns
that I had heard from other people that I attended the caucuses.
Horn: Any other comments on the goals and schedule? If not.
Workman: If that was the last comment, I would like to get some input in
regards to the last piece of the Admin Section. The Admin Section's not
real big but the proposal that I basically made about the City Council
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 21
looking into the idea of an HRA separate from the Council or the Council
being the HRA.
Horn: I think we're not quite there yet.
Workman: Oh okay. I thought we were wrapping it up.
Horn: No, we've got approval of the January and February bills.
Ashworth: And I have a few items too. They're not on, they've come up
since the agenda was put out.
APPROVAL OF JANUARY AND FEBRUARY BILLS.
·
Horn: Okay, anybody have any questions on the bills?
Robbins: Who's Publicorp? First page of the bills?
Horn: $150.~0 travel and training?
Gerhardt: Oh, it's that seminar that I'm attending on tax increment over
in Brooklyn Park. It's an 8 hour seminar. Publicorp is a subsidiary of
Holmes and Greyman where John Dean, the attorney is out and still has his
finger into what the legislation's doing with tax increment and they're
putting an 8 hour seminar on over at Brooklyn Park.
Robbins moved, Workman seconded to approve the January and February, 1990
HRA Accounts Payable as presented. All voted in favor and the motion
carried.
Horn: Okay, Tom we'll go to new business. It's not on the agenda.
Workman: I brought it up and I'm always a little sensitive as a Council
members to perceptions and whether they be right or wrong, I think we've
all heard them out there, and so I thought I'd bring it up. I presented it
to the Council as an idea to think about what they wanted to do as far as
the future of the HRA in it's relationship with the City Council, etc..
Hearing a lot of the City Council members say if something gets done, it's
not done maybe quite the way everybody thought it was. Who approved that?
You know you get this rancor and everything else going and well, it must
have been the HRA. The HRA...and kind of back and forth and the public
doesn't know. There's kind of a slippage on accountability and that's why
I brought it up but I'd like the HRA's members input to what they think.
There's a perception that maybe a lot of the good things that the HRA has
done may be coming to an end and we're completing some of the things that
the HRA was set up for and do we need it or don't we?
Horn: Just to put it in perspective, it's not a subject that was
originated by this Council. Every Council since the HRA was created has
asked that question. We asked that question. I guess I'd throw it out to
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 22
the other members if they have any comments. Reactions?
Workman: To me it wasn't, to me and I know the Mayor had some of the same
coF~Lents that it's not a situation where I don't appreciate the work that
the HRA members have done or that the HRA members have done anything
wrong. It's simply my position as an elected official, I've been next to
West 78th Street and how wide it is, HRA was probably number 2...and people
say what in the hell. It's kind of a mystery commission and people don't
always know about it and whether it's ill perceived or not, that's the way
they perceive it. That's why I brought it up.
Horn: I guess the one advantage that we have that the Council doesn't have
is that we're not elected which I think might put us in a little better
position when we're out negotiating with people for projects. There's
always that feeling that if you have to be accountable and you know
yourself how things get, when people are bargaining for their position, how
the issues that come up and the smoke that comes up. What you guys are in
not quite as good a position to deal with those as we are being elected
officials. We can deal with those I think a little more objectively and we
don't have to get involved in as much of the emotion as you. I think that
would be your advantage to doing that.
Workman: Yeah, some of the emotionalism is what some of the people have.
Who gets to decide what goes on that corner of Hardee's? No really the HRA
is stand alone.
Bohn: Why would the Council want to be the HRA?
Workman: Well because when it's done, when the whole thing is said and
done, what happened? Clark you know this. When it's all said and done,
who did it? Why do we have it? How much money did they get and what did
they do and everything else. It doesn't come back to HRA members. It
doesn't come back to my HRA packet. It comes into my City Council packet
and in that situation I can't say well, yeah it was me. It was 1~0% me. I
did it and that's it. I can now because I'm on both.
(Someone was making a comment in the audience that couldn't be heard.)
Bohn: Like the width of the street. We all assumed it was going to be two
lanes.
Gerhardt: There was a concept presented that showed a four lane through
the downtown.
Workman: The City Council had to approve it.
Gerhardt: Right. The project.
Horn: The accountability that the City Council has is that they have, we
can't do the bonding. They've got to the do the bonding so financially for
the project to go, their approval might not be in the nitty gritty detail
but before any bonds can be issued, they have to approve it.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 23
Ashworth: And the City Council has to approve the redevelopment plan as
we're proposing to acquire this property. This one. This one and then the
bonding that goes along with it. Then the HRA becomes the responsible
party to negotiate with Bernie Hanson and actually carry out that
acquisition. And someone could say, well they paid more than they should
have or less but really Council does not become involved in was it too much
or was it not enough.
Horn: I think there's another real misconception around that we get to
pick and choose who develops what. Well, it isn't like we have a lot of
choices. The one comment I've heard the most I think is on this grocery
store and what the HRA has agreed to do that for them. The perception is
that hey, we're giving Gary Cooper a real break over here. He's the only
guy, I mean he isn't the first guy we've approached. We've approached a
lot of different grocery store chains. He's the only guy that's shown, any
interest in even buying into this project. It isn't like we've offered him
a better deal than we've offered anybody else. He's the only one that
would do the project. In terms of this Hardee's and the current proposal,
nobody else is coming up with another proposal. It isn't like we get to
pick well do we want Hardee's or McDonalds or what is that. These are the
people we've had to push this project, if you will, rather than fighting
people off and picking and choosing as to who we want to go in there. To
me the die was somewhat cast even before I got on the Council in the
previous group saying we want a downtown redevelopment and all we've done
as the Council and HRA since then is to try to promote that and carry
through that plan that was initiated what, 12 years ago now.
Ashworth: The original Kraus-Anderson one was back that far. Then you
went back to your bids and brought in the other group that did the current
plan and I would say that's...
Horn: But I'm talking about establishing an HRA and going for a downtown
redevelopment. That had to be at least 12 years ago because it was
before I was on the Council and that was ages ago.
Ashworth: Did you want to say anything more? I think this is the type of
an item that you may want to get back to Council members youself on or at
least think about a little bit. I don't know if Council is thinking of
acting right away or as I see it, they're trying to get as much info as
possible and in that process make you aware that these concerns have arisen
and they are looking. Along with that...
Robbins: I was just going to ask Tom, as long as you brought this up, how
would you see it operate?
Workman: I thought it would be operated the same way...Minneapolis City
Council... It's just basically, I mean special meetings...
Gerhardt: Not Carver County.
Ashworth: I'm not sure those are...examples but there are a number of
cities in the Twin Cities that do operate.
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 24
Horn: Are they on specific projects going or is that just an ongoing
policy?
Ashworth: I'm not sure.
Workman: That's what I want to find out the negatives and positives and if
negotiating advantages is a big enough thing to continue.
Horn: For you there's no advantage because you're on both.
Workman: Well again, I'm raising the concern that there's been an awful
lot about it might be, these people may have misguided ideas...
Bohn: I've heard people say the Council doesn't know what the HRA is doing
but by the same token we've had Pat Swenson new on the City Council. We've
had somebody on the Council on the HRA and I assumed they were telling
Council members what they're doing.
Horn: I think a big problem we had was that we had too big a gap before
you got on the HRA. We operated too long in the time period before we got
another council member on and I think that was a mistake.
Gerhardt: It was about 9 months.
Horn: Yeah. But that was a critical time in this whole project and that's
why, as soon as Don was elected I said it's very important for you to get a
Council member on the HRA. I think that's absolutely...
Workman: The drums are...
Ashworth: ...talking about the Super Value and what's occurring there.
The underlying ownership. That property is Bloomberg Company. They do
have an option on the Burdick parcels that would make the entire site
associated with Super Value. That automatically renewed itself on March
1st unless Bloomberg said to the developer, which he himself is a part of,
to the MarCor group a letter stating that he's going to look to other
options if they did not have their financing in place by March 1st. He
sent that letter on February 1st. This is March 1st. To the best of my
knowledge they did not finalize their financing. I think that Bloomberg
did that on purpose and the development group maybe did because there has
been much stronger interest in other grocery stores so our time may very
well have come. The whole issue regarding 6~,00~ may become a moot point
because we may very well be dealing with another party on that property. It
appears as though the Gateway is very interested in being in the community
and putting in a 4~,0~0 square foot store in comparison to the original
26,~. They would automatically bring with them a Walgren and that is
also at the same point in time that we're having a strong interest in
Target and they would look to basically acquiring or being on that same
site so now you're talking about going all the way from Market Blvd. out to
CR 17, south of 78th Street. I don't know where this might go to. I've
got some real deep reservations in terms of concern for Bernie Hanson
because Bernie is really, he signed an agreement. Come October 1st his
building goes. If he doesn't have a place to go to, we made arrangements
Housing and Redevelopment Authority Meeting
March 1, 199~ - Page 25
to pay for him if we didn't. It was up to him to make sure that
everything was alright over at that other site. We'll still work on that.
We'll still try to make sure we can put him in over there but I'd like the
HRA to know that there are some things going on.
Mayor Chmiel: Don...City Council.
Ashworth: Yes. I think that although there is information out on the
street and you've probably already heard some things I guess.
Gerhardt: I think it's going to get out more now just because...
Workman: Well it's in the Minutes now.
Workman moved, Horn seconded to adjourn the meeting. Ail voted in favor
and the motion carried.
Submitted by Don Ashworth
Executive Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim