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PC Minutes 6-19-07 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING JUNE 19, 2007 Chairman McDonald called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jerry McDonald, Kurt Papke, Kevin Dillon, Kathleen Thomas, Debbie Larson, Mark Undestad and Dan Keefe STAFF PRESENT: Bob Generous, Senior Planner TH LAKE RILEY WOODS 4 ADDITION: REQUEST FOR SUBDIVISION APPROVAL TO CREATE SIX OUTLOTS AND PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR PIONEER CIRCLE ON 3.43 ACRES ZONED AGRICULTURAL ESTATE DISTRICT, A2, LOCATED AT PIONEER TRAIL AND PIONEER CIRCLE. APPLICANT, CARVER COUNTY, PLANNING CASE 07-14. Public Present: Name Address Anne Nelson 9870 Pioneer Circle Steve Taylor Carver County Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item. McDonald: Start down here to my right and let the ladies begin. Thomas: I don't have any questions right now. Larson: Ditto. Dillon: When you say it's going to be conveyed to someone, what does that mean? I mean I know kind of what conveyed means but in the context of this site. Generous: By platting it they can legally transfer the parcel as a separate entity to the abutting property owners. And you may want to ask the County how they're going to go about that specifically but it's just a way to unite them under one ownership if you will. But with 6 different parcels. So like I said, the County would retain Outlots A and E and then the abutting, the B, C, D and F would be transferred to the neighboring properties. Dillon: Okay. So then, alright. Process on that for a second. That's the only question I have for right now but I might have another one. McDonald: Okay. Kurt. Planning Commission Meeting - June 19, 2007 Papke: The map shows a recreational trail in the area, what on Outlot A. Did you speak to that perhaps before I came in? Generous: No I didn't but that's, currently there are some tracks from people using it for four wheeling. ATV's on it. Papke: Okay, so they're not, these aren't intended to be city maintained trails? These are informal trails. Generous: Yeah, informal that are existing right now and any storm water project they'd be obliterated. Papke: Alright, that's all I have. McDonald: Mark? Undestad: No. McDonald: Dan? Keefe: I have no questions. McDonald: I'm not sure if I'm following up on Kevin's question or not but you talked about Outlot B and Mr. Peterson wanting a line to shift so that he has enough property. I'm not sure I quite, is the line, what's the impact on Outlot B? Is it as drawn or are we going to shift something in the future and this isn't solid or what? Generous: Well the plat would be approved as it's shown on here. He would like this line shifted up so that, he currently has 1.21 acres so he would need another 1.3 acres approximately to get the 2 1/2 acres. That would shift the line somewhere up here. Need a 75 foot strip in there. However he never in the past had the 2 1/2 acre. He has a legal non-conforming status on the property so they'll always be able to use it for the single family home and accessory structures. But he says, since they're going through the process now they would like to, if possible, bring it up to there and our concern by doing that, then you'd have a drainage and utility easement over private property and we run into issues when we try to do storm water projects on private property, even though we have the easement so that's. McDonald: Because what I wasn't sure of was, are we going to shift it in the future. I think what you answered is no. It's as drawn. Generous: No, it'd be as drawn unless you decide tonight that you want to make, have that shift made. McDonald: Okay. Kevin, do you have a follow-up? 2 Planning Commission Meeting - June 19, 2007 Dillon: Okay. So then kind of like along that line, there's I guess really no need to shift the property line if he's got a house there and it's, everything's hunky dory. I mean. Generous: That's correct. There's no, besides having more land, they have this, he doesn't gain much. Well he gains additional land but. Dillon: So then it kind of gets back to, so will then these property owners own all this new land? It will be like their's? Generous: That's the idea that it would be transferred to them as part of their lots, if you will. Their parcels. McDonald: Does anyone else have any questions? Is the applicant here? Steve Taylor: Yes. McDonald: Come on up and state your name and please address the commission. Steve Taylor: Thank you. My name is Steve Taylor. I am the Administrative Services Division Director with Carver County and good evening to you Mr. Chair and to the commissioners here. This issue has been going on since I would say 1987. Since the road realignment and what we're doing here is we are completing the clean-up of that. Pioneer Trail being realigned and this was caused by the realignment of Pioneer Trail. That's what caused this issue. Originally these residences were, had road frontage and they don't anymore, and so what we're trying to do here is to clean-up what took place back in 1987, and frankly should have been done some time ago. And we are, our intent is to make these homeowners well, if you will, as a result of the realignment that took place in '87. Get them to where they were, although they do benefit from the increased land that's being conveyed to them so that's our intent here. Also we are looking at a Torrens action taking place, and that will clean out the property lines. It will deal with the easements that are in place. It will deal with a prescriptive use. Land issues that are in place at this point in time, and it's also going to deal with a gap that's in place that the survey found. There's approximately, it's a 4-5 foot gap of ownership that has unknown ownership at this point so there are a host of issues here that this Torrens action will clean up and as a part of that we are looking at conveying these various outlots to these homeowners and we have met with all of the homeowners except for one. One owner lives in Florida actually for part of the year but I talked to that individual on the phone and faxed him some of the information we were looking at here so. So that's kind of the background of about 20 years worth of background in about 5 or 6 minutes so. McDonald: Okay. Dan, you want to start? Keefe: Just a quick question. You're cleaning up a lot of problems but you know there is some value perhaps to the land being conveyed to them. Are there any dollars being exchanged? Steve Taylor: No. 3 Planning Commission Meeting - June 19, 2007 Keefe: So the value will just be conveyed in their increased taxes to them because they have larger lot sizes now. Steve Taylor: Well right, they have larger lot sizes and they pay taxes and they own more land of course as well. There was a letter that was written in 1987 that said that we would be doing something like this eventually. Even though it's taken 20 years but we said that we would look at re-platting this property so. Keefe: Sounds like you kind of as an equal exchange… Steve Taylor: Right. Keefe: Okay. McDonald: Mark. Undestad: Just to clarify that. Nobody's lots will be up to 2 1/2 acres even after you do all this, right? Steve Taylor: You know I don't know the answer to that. Generous: No, they would not. Undestad: Okay. McDonald: Kevin. Dillon: I'm all set. McDonald: You're all set? Larson: The property that, where the road was before, so it would have been on the north side of Pioneer Trail which is what, where this is shifted, correct? The road went further north so that's why it created this piece of land? Steve Taylor: Actually it went south. It went. Larson: I meant the land was further north. Steve Taylor: Oh, correct. Larson: So who owned that prior? Was that…I'm trying, I agree that this is a good plan but I'm trying to understand what, going back to the conveyance part you know. There's no money exchanged. Did somebody lose out on the deal? Steve Taylor: Well the County owns this land right now. 4 Planning Commission Meeting - June 19, 2007 Larson: The County, okay. Okay. Steve Taylor: Right now. And this is what's called a remnant I believe. This is not my area of expertise, but this is a remnant from that road realignment essentially. Larson: Okay. Because I kept reading it and reading it and, alright. Steve Taylor: Yeah, good question. Yeah. Larson: That's all I got. Thank you. McDonald: Kathleen. Thomas: Okay. So I heard a remnant. Is there, it's a planned time that it becomes an even…now that it becomes within their property lines or are we just going to leave it the way it's been? That's kind of the plan? Steve Taylor: Well the intent is to create these outlots here and the homeowners, and you can see that the boundary lines, we've just, we've tried to extend them to the extent we can here. And Outlot A and Outlot E would be retained by the County but the others would be, would be actually then conveyed to the property owners. That's the intent. Thomas: And then allow them to do whatever it is they want to technically with that? Steve Taylor: Right. Thomas: And if they wanted to go and mow it or something, that'd be okay? Steve Taylor: Right. And actually improvements have been made to county owned property right now. I mean trees have been planted. There's been some landscaping done. I mean 20 years is a long time. Thomas: Yeah, okay. That's it. McDonald: I don't have any further questions, unless someone wants to ask a follow-up and say thank you very much for your discussion with us. This is a public meeting so at this point I would open the podium to those who wish to come forward and make comment on this. What I would ask is that you come up, state your name and address and address the commissioners. Well seeing no one come forward, I will close the public meeting. I will bring it back to the commissioners for discussion. Start with you Dan. Keefe: Nothing. McDonald: Mark. 5 Planning Commission Meeting - June 19, 2007 Undestad: I'm good. Papke: I think this is a good thing. It doesn't get us to 2 1/2 acres but I think it's our duty as a planning commission to always get legal non-conforming lots into the positive direction of conformance and I think this is in that direction so I think it's the right thing for us to do. McDonald: Okay. I'm not sure I fully understand the 2 1/2 but I'm not sure it's worth asking questions about. I agree with what Kurt's saying. It looks as though we're trying to move in the right direction so this seems fine to me. Kevin. Dillon: I agree with all those comments as well as the Outlot A and E which you know have some of the most visibility here will be kept by the County and so they'll be kept up you know without having to wait for an individual party so I think that's good. McDonald: Debbie. Larson: Pretty much everything's been said. Looks fine to me. McDonald: Okay. Kathleen. Thomas: Ditto. McDonald: Okay. Then ready to accept a motion. Keefe: I'll make the motion the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that the City Council approve a 6 outlot subdivision, plans prepared SRF Consulting Group, Incorporated dated May 24, 2007, subject to two conditions, 1 and 2. McDonald: Second? Papke: Second. Larson: Second. Keefe moved, Papke seconded that the Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that the City Council approve a six outlot subdivision, plans prepared by SRF Consulting Group, Inc., dated 5/24/07, subject to the following conditions: 1. Outlots A and E should be deeded to the City or entirely encumbered by drainage and utility easements granted to the City in order to accommodate future stormwater improvements. At a minimum, all property below the 914 contour should be reserved for future stormwater improvements. 2. Provide the City with a set of as-built drawings of the road. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. 6