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1990 09 18HOUSING AND REDEVELOPMENT ~tJTHOEITY REGUL/~R MEETING SEPTEMBER 18, 1990 Chairman Horn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.. M~MBE.RS, PRESENT: Clark Horn, Charlle Robblns, Jim Bohn, Tom Workman, and Don Chmiel ST~FF PRE~NT: Don Ashworth, Executive Director; Todd Gerhardt, Asst. Executive Director and Paul Krauss, Planning Director APPROVA~ OF MINUTES: Don Chmiel moved, Tom Workman seconded to approve the Minutes of the Housing and Redevelopment Authority meeting dated August 16, 1990 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. UPDATE REC~RDING THE ~RKET S~ D~VELOI~T. The taping of the meeting was started during Don AshNorth's presentation of this item. Don Ashworth: ...It Nas our belief that at issue here is really one of insuring that the developer starts the construction of that center as soon as possible. I don't think that we really want to get into a discussion as to whether one tenant is better or worse than the other. As long as they meet the overall guidelines that have been given to them. 80,000 square feet within a specific period of time. 120 total. Total incentive package, etc.. They were to have commenced July ist. Staff would recommend that the HRA simply inform the developer that it's his responsibility to get this project going immediately or that if he does not have it commenced within 30 days or whatever number of days, that we're cancelling the contract. Horn: Any discussion from the members? Chmiel: Was the developer going to be here? Ashworth: I thought so. I recognize a lot of faces that [ know are all associated with this project. But I do not see Brad. He's fully aware of the item. He did have the report. He called me on the report. He did not appear to have any questions. Workman: If in fact we cancelled the contract, what happens? Ashworth: I think the people sitting in this room are the ones that really suffer. Workman: Do we or should we then be developing, well or to what extent should we be developing alternate plans to develop this site or other options. I know we have then potentially two major retailers who may not have anyplace to go in the city. Should we be looking for options in that regard? Horn: Again, that's something that a redeveloper does. We don't set those plans. Obviously what we're trying to do is put pressure on to get them started. That's where we're coming from on this thing and ! guess I'd like to open it up to any suggestions you might have that would help us make Housing and Redevelopment Authority September ).8, ).990 - Page 2 that happen. If you have comments on that issue. Mrs. Hanson: We don't get any straight answers you know. They keep saying it's financial and we've got to solve this little problem. We're got a little glitch here. We're not getting at what is the real problem. We thought maybe you might have some answers. Horn: Really our only option in this thing is we have a contract date that Ne can push for, and that's really the only pressure we can put on this thing is to try and push them to meet that commitment. Mrs. Hanson: What's taking place with Cooper's you know? We heard that he's probably not going to go with it. They're working on another grocery store and it sounds like it's pretty much secure but we don't get any answers. We don't get any answers and it's just, give us a little time. Trust us. I'va heard that for too damn long. Horn: I think we're both struggling with the same problem. What we need to do is. Mrs. Hanson: Well what happens to us come March 15th of 19917 Horn: Believe me that's a real concern of ours also. Mrs. Hanson: And with the economy, ! mean let's face it. It's happening. It's a real world and it doesn't look good. Horn: Again it doesn't help us with a question of what can we do about it? Bernie Hanson: I guess the question is, actually there's been some meetings as Don addressed between the staff and the other person mentioned. Where are we sitting on track? I mean has it all fallen apart or his comment about the leasee's and how much is happening. That's the way we keep getting our answers. A little piece here. A little piece there. Mrs. Hanson: Another thing I want to mention as I mentioned to Tom is no one was aware of it is that one of the last meetings we had with our attorney, this is maybe 3 weeks ago now, was the fact that this square was going to be put up. That there was not going to be a building on the south side of us and there would be open space between us and Cooper's and it's like, whoa. Now wait a minute. What's happening here? He knows he's been having a problem getting enough tenants because of the size and everything got smaller than what originally had started out to be. And I said this to Tom about this vacant space, hey. Maybe we can move some for expansion. He says, wait a minute. That thing was planned as a whole one solid piece. Now what's taking place there. If you weren't aware of it, how can they proceed in doing these things? Horn: Really we can give them general guidelines. You can put up this much square footage. This is the concept of what it is. This is the financial arrangement that we can work out but when it comes to specific details of whether the space is moved here, as long as they meet the overall square footage, they've met the guidelines that we've laid down. As long as they meet the architectural renderings and that type of thing. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 3 But ! 'm sure there are a lot of rumors flying around. I hadn't heard that one but. Mrs. Hanson: You hadn't heard that one? Bernie Hanson: Don, what was going to be your comment? Chmiel: I guess I have concerns with your problems. Where you want to be at that particular time. I'm hearing different things too and one of the things that I Just recently heard was, who knows maybe there's another developer ready to go. If we move on this particular developer, do we have anybody else standing in the wings? Ashworth: I have not had any other parties contact me showing an interest in that site or any similar type of development in the downtown area. Gerhardt= I had one individual express that they would come in and do the same development. ! don't know if that would occur or not occur. In today's market and financing as difficult as it is, I don't know if it would occur but somebody has approached us, yes. Chmiel= Why don't we reapproach them and see where they're coming. At least we can have something to lay back on and if they could be ready to move as quickly. Gerhardt: If anybody else was to come back in, they would have to go through the City Council approval process and I think Don has had conversations with Brad and you and Clark and I think Don should just emphasize again that we're Just putting a deadline on them to move them along. I mean we're doing everything in our efforts to make sure that they move swiftly and I don't think that they're trying to back off. It does take a while to get some of these things put in place. Getting tenants to guarantee leases which the financial agency likes to see. Determinations on which grocery store. You have the one that you talked about in the first place. Cooper's who you feel that you have some loyalty so that was the first person they went to. Mr. Cooper's father passed away. There's some question if he can even fulfill the obligation or would want to fulfill the obligation. So I mean there are some hurdles on their end that they're trying to Jump over. I would suggest the HRA move ahead with a 30 day period. If they do not proceed within that 30 days, that we look at some other criteria to place on them or to look at another developer but l will take and talk to this other individual if you want. Chmiel: Yeah. Horn: Do we need to have this deal finalized before we could entertain speaking with another developer? What's to stop another developer today from giving us a proposal? Gerhardt: I think he would be just hesitant to come into a place if we're still working with the other one. Horn: He obviously knows the situation that we're in effect in default of our original target. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 4 Gerhardt: I don't think it's a clear cut thing to bring one guy in and take out another because one of the partner's in the deal owns a large percentage of the land. He may not be a willing seller. We don't have control of the site that we can take 3ce slow from here and Sos Blow from there and say come and build this retail center. Horn: No, but we can listen to what they have to say. I mean that's their problem, not ours. They would have to overcome that and work ~ith it. Gerhardt: And that ~ould be a lengthy process. Horn: That's my concern. I don't know that another developer at this point would solve your problem. I think it would be too late. Chmiel: Yeah, to help everybody here. That's right. Bernie Hanson: Nell excuse me, am I picking up that there's bunch of leasees now that have sort of stepped back because of the delay or hesitant? I mean I've been told along the lines that we had 80~ of this leased, take or give a few percentage points. Is this strictly all conversation? I've also heard there's a loan commitment from First Bank of Milwaukee. Right Todd? Gerhardt: I don't know who the financial agency is. Ashworth: It is our understanding of the late that the financial commitment has been given. That financial commitment however requires that one of those leases which is the most major lease there, has to make a long term commitment lease or has to be willing to put part of their money into the project and that's where there's been reconsideration or maybe it's just been an inability to react or to follow through. I think that the developer is looking to potentially replacing that one tenant and you don't want to go back and try to get a new loan commitment and go through that whole 90 day timeframe again. If he can simply meet the requirements by getting that one person to make either the lease commitment, which they feel that they do have a substitute for, or willing to put their money into it. Bernie Hanson: That's part of the story that I've heard myself so what is the... Horn: What's your feeling about our proposal? Giving them 30 days. Bernie Hanson: I don't know what...you try to sit here and analyze what you're really saying...and yet try to make it to happen. I'm interpretting what you're saying, we're trying to do everything we can...because I know the position that we've been put into. It's going to happen. Promises and promises and here we sit with a wall in front of us. But that's why I was curious if anybody knew what was happening on the lease side. Are there some people backing away because of the time element and I can understand this. $omebody's got a lease and this thing keeps dragging on and the guy says I've got to go someplace to be in business. He can't put up with it forever either. I mean there's two sides to it. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 5 Horn: I think the thing we have in our favor in the timing right now is the fact that you're really not going to do any construction until spring so you've got this little buffer that you can catch up with but that's going to run out very soon. Gerhardt: If I could answer the question regarding the space that lies to the east of Chanhassen Lawn and Sport. The City Council approved to the site plan of Market Square. There was a building addition to the east of Bernie's site. They have looked at taking a portion of that out of there. To do that they would have to come through some type of administrative, City Council approval for the elimination of that space and what would happen in that area if the space was not filled. Ne talked to Paul and he has confirmed that it would have to go back to the City Council if that space is going to be taken out. Ne would r~Jt issue a building permit for that because it would have to have site plan approval as the City Council approval. It's nothing we should really be concerned with. Workman: So my amazement at that information was based on fact, not ignorance? Gerhardt: That's correct. Workman: Thank you. Todd, you and I were talking prior to the meeting tonight about the economics and the mechanisms out there to making this thing all work. Do the developers of Market Square and this whole group of which I guess I'll include 8ernie and everybody else in the city, do we have so much time, money and energy invested in this thing that it has to go or do enough people have enough money invested that they would end up losing. That it's a very good free market mechanism to say they should go ahead and do it or are they going to be so frightened out with the economy, etc.? I'm asking you to predict something maybe that you can't but is there enough at stake here for the developers to move ahead? Ashworth: I would say that there's been at least $100,000.00 to $200,000.00 spent Just in plans associated with that project. Well over $200,000.00 spent in carrying costs. To restart and let's assume that they entertain whatever developer, you're talking about almost a one year timeframe to restart thinking. Submit to Planning Commission, Council, plan sets. I'm sure the HRA would want to relook at the entire premise under which that original contract was developed. You're talking about major time commitments and 81oomberg, who is the underlying owner, has to realize that. I mean there's not only cost factors in dollars that are already out of his pocket but in terms of the incentive package which has been provided which is likely that it would not be duplicated. If anything they would probably be lowered if there was a re-examination. I think Bloomberg knows that. I think he'll do everything he can to take and make this thing happen. Chmiel: The thing that amazes me is that they're always here for every meeting and never missing whether they're discussing their particular project or not and it bothers me to see that they're not here. Workman: Did they think it was Thursday? Ashworth: Well they received the agenda. Again Brad stopped in. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 6 Chmiei: And he confirmed it. Ashworth: Do you recall if anything was said today that would lead us to think that he... Gerhardt: No. They usually know more about it than we do. Bohn: Just one comment Don. I guess in reading this, and I do recall because we have put a lot of time into this and making a contract. We've all worked on this. I do recall this summer we were talking about some dates. Now I'm being a little facetious but is it possible that we're not working with the same contracts and they've got a different date on theirs other than the July 1st date and they're looking at another start date rather than that date? We talked about July. We talked about August. I remember we had a date for October in there. We had a date for Bernie of March. I mean the point is, we had more than one date here and we might be talking apples and oranges in the sense that they're thinking one date, we've got another. I guess the point is, can we contact with them, not officially but in terms of just questioning. Are they aware that they'll be on this date? Ashworth: I would not doubt at all that the development contract has a different date than the July Irt date. However, they've acted as the redevelopers. They've presented to us that they're going to help get Bernie out of there. They've been fully aware of the dates.that we've given over and have worked with in terms of again the timeframe with Bernie would have to be out of there. I Just would not accept a position that they did not know that they were supposed to be breaking down the ground by July 1. We can ask the question and I think they would come-back and say our development contract is good through blank but they also have a responsibility to notify us if they can't meet subsidiary dates that we give them during meetings that they're sitting in at. Mrs. Hanson: I was just going to make a comment. When Brad was in, which was probably 2 weeks ago Saturday and he said there's been a delay. Now in our contract that we've been working with, August 5th was ground breaking. That was it. That was going to be it. We have a February 1st for an occupancy date that they have been basing everything on. That's what's in the contract papers. February 1st. When Brad came in he says, there's a delay. Nothing to be worried about and he says I've talked to Bob next door and he says you don't have to sweat a thing about being out of here by March 15th. [ says whoa. I've got it in writing. That's when he was going on about the financial things and the fact of Cooper, it was in little bits and pieces. Horn: First of all, that date was not with him. That date was with the contract that we have, if I'm not mistaken. He doesn't control those dates. Mrs. Hanson: But it seems like he does. He tells us not to be concerned about it. Just don't worry about it. It's all going to get taken care of. We just need a little more time. He says, we could be looking at maybe a year before you're into it. I said, a year? Horn: Well what's the feeling from the board? Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 7 Chmiel: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a recommendation that we grant them one more month. At the same time get our feelers out to see if there are any other developers that would be interested in developing that. If so, we could possibly hold special meetings to accommodate that developer to see if we can't keep on the same timeframe. Workman: So you're saying 4 weeks? Horn: 4 weeks in the blank? Robbins: Maybe if we're working with the same, rather than put weeks put the actual date in there. Chmiel: Yes, we need an actual date. Robbins: Rather than weeks. Chmiel: That's right. Horn: Do you want to set another time for the commencement of construction? Do you want to specify that at this time? Workman: Isn't that what we're saying? Horn: No. Chmiel: Immediately after those specific date that we have. Construction will take place on or about, we're looking right now at the 17th. 1, 2, 3, 4, on or before October 15th. Horn: Is that the right duration from signing the contract to commencing construction? Is that the right time period? Ashworth: Well they have stated, Brad said to me that they could have everything completed within 30 days. Horn: Is there a second to the motion? Wot kman: Second. Horn: Further discussion? Bohn: Comment? With regards to that, is it also possible to send a notice out as well that they are in violation of that date now as well? So we've actually got two items going here. Workman: An amendment to your motion? Horn: Would you like to include that in your motion? Chmiel: I would, yes. Would second accept that? Wot kman: Yes. Horn: Further comments? Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page $ Chmiel moved, Norkman seconded to direct staff to ~rtte a letter to the developer of Harket Square Development advising them that they are in violation of the contract with the City regarding the starting date for construction and that they be given 30 days notice in which time to commence construction. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Bernie Hanson: I don't know if this is proper with ail your procedures but we keep moving these dates and we all know that we're setting the dead date to be evicted. Is there any connection that a person can amend our date to go with that? You know this thing is moved now until October 15th and we've got a contract that says February let for occupancy.., then there's a March [Sth date, April 1st or something. I'm about as confused as anybody I guess sitting here. Ashworth: I would recommend that you modify the motion to include instructing staff to determine the feasibility of being able to do that and talk with, so that would be an opinion of the City Attorney as to whether or not we could do that without getting in violation with the Medical Arts. Then it would be a matter of talking with the Medical Arts. In addition to the... (There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.) Horn: ...and that is, it seems that we've either got to get the thing started first and we've done that with the initial motion. What I think we can do is to ask staff to check the legalities of changing these other dates. Upon successful completion of our first milestone which we've just set, then we would look at adjusting all the contract dates. Would that be appropriate Don? Workman: Otherwise we may not need to? Horn: Right. Otherwise we may be wasting some time. Is everybody in agreement? Okay, let's move on. UPDATE REGARDING THE CROSSROPd:)S NATIONAL BANK PURCHASE ~MENT. Ashworth: My recollection is that we had discussed the item during HRA meetings. I know that I've talked on the telephone. The question really became one of is there a way that we can entice Crossroads to move ahead with their development. The correlary to that being from the City Attorney's side, if the bank is not going to become a reality, the sooner they would acknowledge that and we can start a potential new bidding process, the better. So I guess the question really becomes one of how would you like us to proceed? I have to admit...contact bank officials prior to Tuesday. I forgot I wrote that. Horn: When have you talked to them last? Or anybody from the City. Gerhardt: Oh geez, a month ago? Horn: A month ago. Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September lB, 1990 - Page 9 Gerhardt: At that time I called them in reference to where they were in starting their project and they said that they were still trying to work on organizing the bank and that they had hired an attorney in Washington D.C. to get their holding company structure through that agency out there that approves the holding structure for the bank. Right now they have it structured like the Savings and Loans were and that's held up in that agency and they don't want to approve it. So they've hired an attorney out there to try to push it through. I haven't heard since if they were successful in that or not. Horn: I'd like to suggest that we keep close contact with these people that we're in negotiations with on this project and I would certainly volunteer my time to meet with them also, if we could set up some type of a noon meeting or something and I suspect the Mayor would be amendable to that also. So we can keep these things moving and keep in contact with these people. I know we're in tough times now but I think we have to try to keep the pot stirred on these projects. Robbins: Because I do recall the memos that we had received. There are a lot of dates again that we played with on this one. As I recall, there was a go, no go date of llth of November or 9th of November so technically they're not in default yet. Workman: But again you know, it's Market Square. It's Crossroads Bank. It's Redmond Products and I think there's a trend here. Horn: We're well used to this trend. We went through it about 8 years ago. Fortunately we're in a much better position today than we were then. It in effect stopped the whole program at that point. At least we've got something going and it's a financially viable operation at this point. I'm not surprised that we're going to see this and we've been through it before. I guess all I'm saying is the timing is a little better now than it was the last time this happened. But I think you're right, this is a trend. Anything else on this? Any other questions? CONSIDER ACQUZS[T[.O.N OF THE LOT LYIN~ E~ST OF THE H~S SITE. Ashworth: Again, I feel uncomfortable talking about this without Mr. 3ohnson being present. I prepared the report, of course that was in concert with his request. I think that the acquisition makes a lot of sense for a whole group of reasons. Acquisition price is reasonable. Ne are carrying out other acquisitions in that area. I think it simply supports our position regarding price. The property is very difficult to take and serve. If there is any type of a request back to the City to develop that, I think that the HRA is going to want to be vitally involved in that. The visibility from TH 5 is very strong. I would think that having control of that site, recognizing that the condemnation process of the TH 101 realignment we are acquiring the Taco property and the Red-E-Mix. These two lots would be literally the next in line. If Brad would be willing to sell those for basically what he has paid for them. Again, I feel uncomfortable talking... Horn: I suspect this doesn't have to happen within the next month and I think there are a lot of other activities going on that are going to keep him busy. I'd suggest that we table this until our next meeting. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 10 Robbins moved, Workman seconded to table act[on on the acquistt[on request of the lot lying east of the Hanus site until the next meeting. All voted in favor and the mot[on carried unanimously. Workman: What does the final cost of this come out to be? Chmiel: $230,000.00. Robbins: But again Don, the way that memo was written, it was actually a proposal because I would think that we would be liberty if we were quite serious about this, to make a counter offer back because maybe the value to us is not the same as the value to him. Ashworth: I think we would want to verify what it is that he in fact purchased this for but I think that becomes relatively easy because this is a back tax situation so the federal government has already established what they consider to be the value for their releasing these parcels. We have asked...to get the project to where it's at. I think we can make a counter proposal but I would hope that we're fair in the process too. Robbins: What I'm thinking is that we've got a lot of land now. To acquire more land just for the sake of owning land. Ashworth: We are getting to be a major land owner. Robbins: Is maybe not paramount right now to just require the land for the land sake. Bohn: You still want to be able to control that land though as to what goes on it. Owning it we can control it. Workman: Which we'll end up owning in combat down the way. I agree with you Charlie that if it's a situation or I agree with both of you. I mean be fair but if it's a buyer's market, let's not give away the farm. Horn: Anything else? CONSIDER APPROVML OF M PRZVMTE REDEVEL(N=HENT ~4~E~T WITH TED KORZENONSKI RND CONSIDER ~PPROVML OF M PRZVMTE REDEVELOPMENT MGREEHENT WITH THE CHMNHMSSEN INN, LRRRY ZPd~OR, Horn: The next two items are similar. Unless I've missed something, I believe they're both consistent with what our previous policies have been on special assessment reductions so unless someone has some questions on these, they look like fairly straight forward items. Chmiel: Yeah, you're right. Robb[ns moved, Workman seconded to approve the Private Redevelopment Agreement with the Prairie House Restaurant and their request for $9,401.90 in special assessment assistance. Mlso to approve the Private Redevelopment Agreement with the Chanhassen Inn and their request for $11,662.13 in special assessment assistance. MI1 voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 11 DISCUSSION AND REVIEW OF THE SENIOR NEEDS ASSESSMENT STUDY, Horn: One question I'd like to ask before we start. It seems to me that about 8 or 10 years ago there was one of these done. Gerhardt: We're fairly limited in what we can use our Block Grant monies for so this one needed to be updated and monies for this study were paid through the Hennepin County Block Grant. Horn: The CBDG money? Did we compare any of the results? Krauss: We really didn't. In fact I wasn't aware that there was an earlier one but Clark, some of the stuff we found in here was quite dramatic in terms of, well the City has doubled in size since then and of course is a much different place and we found that we had an unusually or what we found to be an unusually large number of seniors in the community. We have contacted about 800 or 900 households, 55 and older and clearly there's a big range between 55, 65, 75 in terms of needs. But there was some projection work done that indicated that within 2 years I think we can expect to have 1,200 senior family households. It presented a fact that there was a significant and growing need for specialized services and that's what that task force was assembled to get a handle on. The Mayor appointed the task force members and I guess they were basically drawn from area churches and ministers and what not were asked to provide representatives. We had a lot of people from social service agencies, from transportation agencies, whatever who came and gave information on what was available. What was not available. There was survey work distributed to all the senior households in the city. We had an excellent return rate. We had about 30~ or 40~ return rate which is really super. And then there were study groups where people indicated an interest to talk verbally to the task force came in for meetings and talked about specific issues. Transportation was seen as a strong need. Ultimately a place for a senior citizen center was considered a strong need. We of course have none in the city right now. Ne co-sponsored South Shore Senior group and that is located outside the community. Up until this week, a lot ofthe seniors in town couldn't get there because the bus service didn't go there. You may have heard that the Southwest Metro was convinced to add service to the senior center and we're putting notice in the newspaper to that effect and we mailed out notices to the seniors. But they would like to have a space of their own, especially as the population grows. If a community center happens, ideally this would be a community center. If the community center doesn't happen, it should be someplace else but they do want to look at that. One of the recommendations that are going to be made to the Council is that a senior commission be appointed to give some long term advice to the City Council on how and what to program for seniors. One of the need areas that was discussed was housing. Now this was not a housing study. I mean it was only a $7,500.00 study and I think it was really excellent for the amount of cash that we had to devote to it. Clearly housing is something that warrants it's own study. But there was a significant number of seniors who reported to us that either they could not afford to stay in their own homes for whatever reason. They couldn't maintain the property. It was too large. When they sought to relocate, that there weren't any opportunities in the city for them to relocate into. We're aware that St. Hubert's is considering a small senior housing component. I think 28 units which probably won't satisfy the need. It's also very specific Housing and Redevelopment Authority September i8, i990 - Page 12 because it's for members of that congregation. Anyway, I guess the reason Todd put this into the HRA is when the senior task force gave an informal presentation to the Council, housing was one of their concerns. I don't recall who it was but some of the City Council people indicated well then it should be brought up before the Housing and Redevelopment Authority since housing is your first name, I believe I'm quoting somebody. Horn: This is starting to come back to me now. This issue came up in regards to our first comp plan attempt because at that time the Met Council was pushing low cost housing on us and we said, hey rather than do that we would rather direct that to senior citizen housing. And some group, I forget who it was, came back to us and said we don't have a high enough percentage of people to do that. You've got to have low income housing. You can't have senior citizen housing. It doesn't warrant that. I think John...was on the Council at the time saying that he would have liked to have had a place for his mother to live in town. There was no place for them so it isn't just the seniors that are here, it might be seniors who have children who are living here that they would like to move next to. Krauss: Ne have one woman on our task force who fit that exactly. Selda Hineline who was a Chicago resident who's son and family live here and when she became more needy of having close proximity to relatives, they moved her into town. Now she's living in one of the apartments over behind Heritage Square and those seem to be the most affordable ones in town. Now they're not fully handicapped accessible but there seems to be a lot of seniors living in there. You know I clearly some more study or specific study of this is warranted. It may be that a dedicated project is needed maybe in conjunction with a senior center. You know they function well hand in hand. It may be that in the short term something considerably less grandiose or extravagant come into play. Apparently we're trying to find out about this but some communities had programs where they've gone into existing units like the ones we have here and taken an ownership position in those and managed them specifically and then you're Just retrofitting an existing building that already has seniors in it. We're not here to make recommendations specifically as to what needs to be built. How many units and what type. That clearly requires further study. I guess the only point we wanted to bring across is this study's been done. There's a lot of interest being generated in it and we do have a very significant and growing component of seniors who will be requiring these sorts of services in the future. Horn: One of the frustrating things I think in being involved with this is that one time you suggest something and you look for an answer and the people bring back all the data that says no, you can't do that. $o you sit 5 years later and then the data comes in and says why haven't you been doing something about this. One of the questions of course is will this become part of an update to the Comp Plan? This section it would seem like should be upgraded in that. Krauss: I think it's a good point Clark. We hadn't thought of it originally but a senior component can easily be added to the comp plan and this study that's been done rolled into it in any future studies that we get rolled into it too. Going back to your historical information in terms of this being considered before, when we look now the market, the Twin Cities market is flooded with expensive generally senior citizen housing. Housing and Redevelopment Author£ty September iS, 1990 - Page 13 A lot of that was a result of a particular window for tax laws for developers to jump through. To develop expensive market rate senior housing and there was also some subsidized senior housing that went in. I believe the project in Eden Prairie on TH 5 is subsidized and I'm not sure that, I think they might be full. The senior project at Glen Lake is full but those are the lower cost ones and those are the ones that we'd be looking at. Now you're probably not going to find for profit developers out there looking to put units in Chanhassen at this point in time. And you're almost certain not to find a government subsidy program that's going to build housing in our community. So to the extent there's a need that needs to be satisfied, you're probably looking at a more creative approach. Exactly what that will be, I don't know but it's not going to be the traditional type of development. Horn: One other thought occurred to me too in reviewing this. I guess I was really astounded to find out how little information is diseminated on public services that these people can take part in. The thought occurred to me that the city spends money every year to support the Excelsior Senior Center. What are they doing in terms of getting this kind of information out to the seniors? Krauss: Well it's one of those problems that a lot of the cracks and things fall through. The South Shore Senior Center, we did take a tour of their facility. They had us up for lunch. They do have a lot of Chanhassen residents attending the facility. They've just relocated to 3ay's church. They lost their facility because it was in the school district building. We don't contribute a hack of a lot of money to that. I mean it's something on the order of $8,000.00 or $9,000.00. a year. They provide congregate dining. They provide athletic type things. They do have a bus. They do organized trips. They try to diseminate information. As with so many things, we find that across the line in Hennepin County the social service agencies are extremely well organized. They have information networks. They take care of a lot of these problems and get information out. Carver County has never been that active and where they have had senior programs, you've always got that rural/suburban split and they stick stuff out in Young America or someplace else that's not readily accessible to our residents. Senior services are also split amongst a zillion different agencies and private groups and we really found that we'd rather not get in the business, in terms of the City, in terms of having to staff up to be the information resource. But right now it doesn't appear as there's a whole lot of options because nobody else is taking the ball and running with it. Ideally at some point to be maybe Chanhassen and Chaska or with Carver County, they would be able to arrange that but right now it was clear that there was a need for information source. A single number they could call. People call City Hall all the time and we try to find out but then we have to call, because we don't have the information. We have to run it down so we're plugging gaps right now. Horn: You know, one of the things I noticed in here too is that they spent, apparently a lot of people spend a lot of time in volunteer work. Would they be willing to man a hotline or something if we gave them an office and a telephone? Chmiel: We talked about that. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, i990 - Page i4 Krauss: Yeah, I'm sure that they would. It would take some staff support I think from the city in terms of getting the information assembled and at that point you have the volunteers coming in and answering phones and being hotline type people. I'm certain that that could happen. Horn: I was getting nervous that the study would recommend adding to staff. Chmtel: I thought part of that presentation done by each of the seniors on respective areas that they had responsible for did Just a great Job. They really did. Horn: It'd probably be a good core group to speak at dinners and things to get this information out. chmiel: And they'd be willing to do that too. Horn: It's really disturbing to see what a low percentage of respondents knew anything about these services. Krauss: Even we found, with Southwest Metro and Southwest Metro has tried to get the word out. Their dial-a-ride services and what not, you see advertisements around town for that, but we found a surprisingly small percentage of the seniors knew about it and unfortunately some of those that tried to use it couldn't because it didn't go where they needed to go or when they needed to go and we're going to work with Southwest Metro to fix that. Horn: There's somebody from Council on Southwest Metro isn't there? Workman: Ursula and 3ay. Horn: Ursula and Jay? Krauss: In terms of service to South Shore. Gerhardt: Paul, what would be the, did the seniors make a decision on this additional study? Did they take any action on looking at a comprehensive need analysis? Krauss: No. What they're asking the Council to do, I think we'll be asking the Council to do on October 4th is to accept the study basically as a vehicle to have further work done as to ideally get a senior commission on board that's in a position to develop this information. Talk to the Council and kind of keep the ball rolling. This study was designed, specifically intended not to be specific. It wasn't designed to say we need a senior center. It wasn't designed to say we need a transportation. It wasn't designed to find the exact need for housing. It was a general type of study to say how many seniors do we have. What are their general issues. What are their concerns. I think it achieved that but the next step has to be taken and then housing is something that we need to be pursued and I've got to believe housing needs to be pursued with a specific study. Now to the extent we're able to use Block Grant funding for this study I would assume that we could probably do a housing needs analysis using the same funding source. We always have a little bit of difficulty Housing and RedeveIopment Authority September 15, 1990 - Page 15 spending that money anyway because the categories you can use it on are so restricted. Horn: One of the things that they mentioned too is we really need a place in the interim before we have what they call a civic center. I don't know where they got that term and not having to go to Excelsior. What is the viability of that? Do we have anything at all? Krauss: Well we've tried kicking it around at a staff level and there's been some suggestions for properties like Pauly's but I think, I checked on that and they're in there for 3 years. In fact, they're opening up a new facility. Horn: What about the Pony Express? Yeah, we've got a building. There's probably a kitchen in there. Gerhardt: He still has the right to operate and live out of there for the next 3 years as long as it's not a bar operation. Horn: Is he using the bar? Gerhardt: I think he's got a stage down there where he does his recording so he's, I'm sure using the space. Chmiel: That's something we can check on. Krauss: We really don't have a wealth of available space in the community. You know you think at some point in the future, depending on how the city expands and how staff needs, I mean I don't want to belabor the point but we've got, you know we had this building expansion for City Hall and we filled up the space and now we've got people working out of closets again. 8ut we do have the space back here and at some point, you know if the library moves into a new facility, that might a space for them to look at. Chmiel: The only thing is it would be temporary because I see that need for the City at some time as the city progresses and grow. Gerhardt: I'd ask Sharmin to look at the room over at the Bowling Alley. They had a kitchen facility in the back there and tables and chairs. Is that a possibility? I don't know if she ever followed through with that or not. Chmiel: They have a heavy use there for babysitting. That's what they utilize that for. 8ohn: They just use that one corner for babysitting but the main room is empty where the kitchen is. Chmiel: Oh, ls it? Workman: Yeah, it's kind of windowless. Horn: They might be able to do a trade-off if they volunteer to run the nursery, they might get some free meeting space. Housing and Redevelopment Authority September 18, 1990 - Page 16 Krauss: See the space that they're looking for, South Shore is kind of making do right now. South Shore really enjoyed where they were up in the school because they had the gym where they had athletics and exercise and health care is one of the primary functions of these places. Congregate dining is another. But they needed sort of 2 rooms plus some exercise space ideally. I don't know what they have in 3ay's church but [ think they have a pretty good dining facility there and ! don't know what other facilities they have. Horn: What do you expect the HRA to do with this? Krauss: I guess at this point we wanted you to have a copy of the report. Look through it. Understand what the concern was and possibly discuss amongst yourselves what sort of, idea generation. What sorts of things would you feel comfortable becoming involved with? Horn: Well like the apartments go in over here, we encourage people to set up, in fact we might even have some financing options if they designate those as such. Would those be open to developers? Charlte Sames' is going to have some more apartment type things going. Can they get incentives if they designate senior facilities? Krauss: Well I don't know. It's really restrictive these days. Under the old financing for used housing revenue bonds, 15~ or 20~ of the units had to be available for moderate income. The follow up on that kind of stuff has always been kind of shakey but it's not dedicated senior housing. Gerhardt: We could look at a variety. I mean to place a senior center in Chanhassen, it would have to be somewhere in the downtown area. (The tape ran out at this point in the meeting. No action was taken on the Senior Needs Assessment Study.) APPROVAL OF AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER BILLS. Robbins moved, Workman seconded to approve the Housing and Redevelopment Authority Bills for August and September, 1990 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Bohn moved, Robb[ns seconded to adjourn the aeeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting Nas adjourned at 8=30 p.m.. Submitted by Don Ashworth Executive Director Prepared by Nann Opheim