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PRC 2003 04 22CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING VERBATIM MINUTES APRIL 22, 2003 Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:38 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Tom Kelly, Amy O'Shea, Jack Spizale, Paula Atkins, Susan Robinson and Glenn Stolar STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Atkins moved, Stolar seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS. None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Atkins moved, Spizale seconded to approve the summary Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission dated February 25, 2003 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 7 to 0. NAMING OF NEW PARK LOCATED IN FRONT OF CITY HALL AND ADJACENT TO THE NEW LIBRARY. Public Present: Name Address Linda Landsman Melissa J. Brechon Kathy Perschmann Jill Shipley 7329 Frontier Trail 4 City Hall Plaza Library Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. One of the most exciting thing obviously that is happening is the old bank has finally been demolished making room for the new park. The park project has always been referred to as the City Center Commons, and the plans that are shown on the overhead indicate the general configuration of that area. It's fairly large and very nicely laid out. What you would call kind of a town plaza feel or town commons, but it did not have an official name and with the placement of the sign, which is located right down at the intersection of Market Boulevard and West 78t~. This sign was an add alternate item at just over $8,000 which was accepted by the City Council as a part of the project so we need to find a name for the park and go ahead and get that name off to the contractor so they can order letters for that. Before I go into a little background on the park location and the history itself I'll show you the schematic. We have it in your packet. This is a schematic of what the sign would look like. It has a concrete footing underneath it. A brick sign. It has the radius which follows the edge of the planter. Has a very prominent location on that intersection. It will have Chanhassen with the maple leaf and the park name underneath and it's a 3 lA inch letters underneath the larger Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 letters here, 8 inch letters which spell Chanhassen. So that's the design of the sign. City Center Commons again was the project name. It has never been officially adopted as the name for the park by the City Council. Little background. First of all on the project, this site was set aside in on the late 80's by the Housing and Redevelopment Authority. It was purchased at a price of $4.50 a square foot for the bank property, and then the library property as well. And the thinking at the time was the city leaders, the city staff, the council at the time, the HRA members, didn't like the idea of a McDonald's or a Burger King sitting out on that comer in front of City Hall. They thought there was a better use, preferably a public use for that property, so it was purchased and set aside and then remained as the festival location or what did we call the ballfields out there? Do you remember? The Little League. Coulter Field. The Little League Coulter fields out there where kids actually played Little League or t-ball right on main street for a number of years as well. The library location or the referendum was approved. The library location was selected at the intersection or the comer of Kerber and West 78t~ Street, and then the plan started to become a reality for what would tie these two public uses together, that being the commons area inbetween or the plaza. The plan itself was prepared through a design committee which the council thanked recently after the award was made for the project. Damon Farber and Associates is the architect on the design. There was some real elaborate designs going in and I think the committee really selected one that fits the downtown and is going to be very well received. With the bank standing there it was very hard to visualize what this space would actually look like. Now with the bank gone it's starting to become a little easier to visualize exactly what that space will look like. History on naming parks in the past in Chanhassen. Many of the parks have been named, either by their general location, the development, the developer, or city staff or generally the Park and Recreation Commission. So historically there has not been a large public process going into naming parks in the city. The larger parks, Lake Ann Park, Lake Susan Park obviously have names which are associated with geographic features that are, they are near or that they are featured. Many neighborhood parks that were named simply the night that the Park and Recreation Commission visited them as they were brought onto the system and the commission talked about it as a group, or if there was a neighborhood that was working with the commission at that time in the development of that park, they were then, ideas were solicited from those groups. There have been some suggestions from the community to date to name this location and those include, the City Center Commons, which is a name that people still appreciate. Central Park, again due to it's predominant location in the center of the city. But Central Park many people feel has already been taken and has a...somewhere else in the country. Library Park has been suggested a number of times, and I think members of the audience here are here to support that idea. Town Square and City Center Park so those are just a few of the ideas, or the ideas that have really been tossed about the majority of the time we're talking about this topic. Other ideas are, you can always name it as a memorial or there's a variety of different ways to look at it. In this instance it' s the staff position that there' s a simple and obvious choice and that is City Center Park. It's very descriptive. We have a City Center Park already, which is behind City Hall, and City Center Park can be renamed City Center Ballfields or City Center Fields. There's also a requirement that you should be aware of. The two fields that are north of the school property, north of the tennis courts, have a requirement as a part of the purchase agreement to be named Hansen Fields, so right now they have a, it's a sub-category. It's City Center Park, Hansen Fields. The property was purchased from the Hansen's. As a part of that purchase agreement they wanted that, those naming rights as a part of that. So those, whatever City Center Park is known as, those fields will always be known as Hansen Field as well. And we have a sign in our shop for those, to name that Hansen Field, City Center Park, Hansen Field. The existing again the existing City Center Park can be renamed. The signs that we have are made in the shop at a cost of probably $200-300. Gregory: Yeah, a couple hundred dollars. Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: For the wood. And that's staff's recommendation that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the City Council officially name the new park site City Center Park, and that we rename the existing City Center Park to City Center Ballfields. Franks: Thank you Todd. What I'd like to do is of course, provide plenty of time for anyone in the audience to make their comments, but before we do that I'd like to, if Todd, if you're willing to take questions from any commission members, we'll do that first. And Susan, just to give you a break we'll start at the other end. Robinson: Thank you. Franks: You're welcome. Stolar: Just one quick question. Is there a requirement that that has to have a distinct name? Because one of my questions was, isn't this all just City Center Park. Hoffman: Yes. Stolar: This is the whole City Center Park. Is that allowable or does it have to have a distinct name? Hoffman: It's allowed. You could do that. My only concern is that when there is a specific program or event taking place in this location and you say City Center Park, it may be confusing for folks. Space starts to get large, but I had the same thought. Atkins: So the recommendation by staff is City Center Park? Hoffman: Correct. Atkins: How will this be decided? Will we be making that decision? Hoffman: You can make a recommendation to the City Council. Atkins: Will the sign be lit? Hoffman: Lit? Yes. Atkins: That's all I have. Franks: Nothing? Kelly: No. Franks: Todd, when you say the monument sign will be lit, will the letters be backlit or will it be flood lit from down below? Hoffman: Base lit from down below. Franks: Staff didn't come up with any other real creative ideas? Stolar: Not that they will tell us. Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Franks: Well had we considered offering the naming rights to the park for sale to corporate entity? Hoffman: Hadn't, well we talked about it. Yeah we talked about it. Franks: Okay. Aldght. I guess that's really all I have at this point. O'Shea: Does staff see it a plus or a neutral to try to tie this whole area in like City Center, the hockey rinks, City Center ballfields, or does that? Hoffman: I think what would occur then is this would always be known as City Center Park and you'd start getting knick names for the other. People would just say the ballfields. O'Shea: By City Center Park. Hoffman: Yeah. You're going to go to the ballfields. Because there are, then again by default if you're reading a softball or baseball schedule and it says City Center Park, you're pretty much going to know where those ballfields are. So depending on the activity which is scheduled. If you say the 4th of July is at City Center Park, there's going to be activities going on in both locations so people would know where it's at. O'Shea: Okay. In the new park by the library, is there going to be activities held there or? Hoffman: Oh sure. O'Shea: Okay. Hoffman: Both by the library and by the city and by other people, the Chamber of Commerce. It will be a very public space and many public events will be held there. O'Shea: That's all I had. Franks: Commissioner Robinson: Robinson: Thank you. My only question was what types of public events would be held there? Like different 4th of July types of things. Hoffman: Music, art, farmers market, reading programs. I'm sure your list is very long. There will be a variety of activities and the space, we have ideas already but the space is going to generate additional concept. There's a farmers market that people are talking about in town. We're not sure if this space is large enough with parking needs but. We want to bring back our music program in the parks. Just some of those types of activities. Franks: Thanks. Spizale: Just one question. Is this like sandblasted into masonry type of thing or is it free standing letters? Hoffman: Yeah, they're free standing letters. % inch aluminum lettering painted black. Off-set 1 inch from the brick. The maple leaves are % inch water jet cut aluminum painted black. And the Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 brick facing matches the existing library and then the letters with the name are 3~ aluminum letters painted black. Spizale: Okay. That's the only question I had. Franks: Are there any other questions? Alright, thank you. Thanks Todd. What I'd like to do now is open it up for comment from members of the audience. If you want to, if you have a comment, please step to the podium and state your name and address and if you would, if you're representing a group or organization, your affiliation as well so we have some understanding. Linda Landsman: Hi. My name is Linda Landsman and I'm at 7329 Frontier Trail. Actually I come with many hats. First and foremost I'm a resident. I am the Carver County Library Trustee for Chanhassen. I was on the original task force for the library. I was on the outside design committee for the library. I was on the inside design committee for the library. I'm on the art committee for the library, who was meeting tonight to talk about artwork in and around the library. My position on the Carver Board also puts me on the Friends of the Chanhassen Library Board itself so as I say I wear many hats when I appear before you this evening. Last but not least I was also part of this park design, and it was a very invigorating and fun process. The City at the time had asked the landscape specialist to tie the park design to the library, and they did a very good job in doing that. The same lines can be seen in the park design, the room concepts are somewhat similar. The City had asked the landscaper to match the landscaping in the park and the landscaping in the library area together. He did that very well. I guess in this time of cost constraints I'm questioning why you would want to name an existing, a brand new park like this with such exciting ideas, an existing name of an existing park that normally people don't remember now. When they talk about the ballfields they talk about the ballfields behind City Hall. They don't remember City Center Park or City Center Commons or whatever it's called now. If we do make that change, yes you can do the signage in your shop for a few hundred dollars, but there's still added cost of changing maps. Of changing property plat names. Updating web sites if you've got web sites showing where you parks are in Chanhassen. There's a cost associated with that, and with this deficit balance that we have, I would like to think that you would avoid any extraneous costs that you have at this time. There are some other issues through. When you have two parks that close together with a common name I think that invites confusion within the public. And that again is going to add a cost to the calls to City Hall as to well yeah it's at City Center something. Is it up above or is it down by the library, and we're seeing and hearing a lot of people referring to it as the park by the library. You know let' s keep it simple. Library Park, that's what people are going to call it. I do believe that you can use a name in this park also to bring some statement or excitement to our downtown. It can be used to indicate to whoever drives into town for a meeting or drives through town to get to somewhere else on 5, or even a resident that comes into downtown for any reason, that we are a town that truly embraces life long learning and literacy. We embrace the excitement and promote the adventure of expanding the minds of our children through stories, pictures, programs, whatever. And that we also believe so strongly in those things that we stuck a library in the middle of our town. That in and of itself is awesome. You've got an opportunity to make a statement. It could point to the fact that we are well read and literate. Or you could make a statement of loyalty to our country. You don't want to detract from the design or from the hard efforts of all the people that have worked on this with confusion. There are many other names that would stand out and have the dignity and decorum of this park. Authors Park. Poets Park. Fr~dom Square. There are so many opportunities here. Don't miss it. Thank you. Franks: Linda, do you want to take a question? Would you mind? Do you want to come back? You just had a list. What's at the top of your list? Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Linda Landsman: Oh that's hard. I am partial to tying this park to literacy. To learning. To that excitement of new lands and new wonders that you can find in that library in many different mediums, so I lean towards something like a Library Square or Library Commons. I also feel strongly towards Freedom Square because it elicits a lot of pride in our country and our community, but it also talks to the fact that we are probably one of the few countries that you can list that have such a mass of freedom of right to read, and that is highly important in our culture. So I guess if I had to choose, my favorite would be Freedom Square. Franks: Okay, thanks. Linda Landsman: Any other questions? Franks: Well now you opened it up. If you want to stand up there for a second I'll check and make sure so you don't have to keep coming back... Linda Landsman: Okay. That's fine. Franks: Are there any questions from any commission members for Ms. Landsman before she sits back down, and we'll just keep them to questions and not comments. Linda Landsman: And I am standing. O'Shea: I do. Franks: Sure, go ahead. O'Shea: You spoke of additional cost incurred by calling it City of Chanhassen, City Commons. Linda Landsman: City Commons Park. Well if you're going to be making changes in the name of the park where the fields are, that's where I'm talking about additional costs. If you don't change the name of that park up there, you don't incur costs of making new signs for the old park. Of changing that name in maps or changing that name in web sites, which yes we have employees that do that but we pay them taxpayer dollars for their salary. So yeah there are costs associated with re-using that name. O'Shea: Thank you. Robinson: I have a question also. Franks: Sure, go ahead. Robinson: I was wondering if you talked this over with, you talked, named kind of all the committees you were on. Have you discussed this with other people? And if so, were they in agreement with you for the Library Commons? Linda Landsman: Library Park, Library Commons was probably the one I've heard the most. From neighbors. From library staff. From a lot of the people in the committees that I've been on. The Friends of the Library. They want the concept of reading and literacy evident. Funniest thing. Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Franks: If I can just expand on that a little bit, when you say that. I'm wondering, we plunked the library right in the middle of town, like you said and I am hard pressed to think of a greater statement that this town supports learning and literacy. And so I'm wondering about how the park, whatever that name is going to be I think can add to that statement already. Linda Landsman: I think it can, and if you wanted to take it, or extrapolate a little further. If you wanted something like Authors Park or Poets Park. When we start getting into actually doing some of the fun things in that park that we' ve talked about with maybe some of our park benches or maybe engravement in some of the pavers that we're going to have. You know put a poets name engraved in there or an artist's name and it might promote curiosity in children or adults saying huh, well I've never read that one. I've never read that author. It could be they come into the library and check it out, so there are things we can do within the library intrinsic to starting some of that excitement. I think the fact that it sits in the center of town is also very evident. And I just, I' m hoping that we take this opportunity to take a step up from that so. Franks: Thank you. Linda Landsman: You're welcome. Any other questions? O'Shea: Actually I do have. Linda, do you have need to really distinguish the parks behind City Hall and the one by the library? Do you want to see them, like do you want to have that identity as two separate parks or does that not bother you that if they flow together? Linda Landsman: I agree with Todd. I think in some minor ways that will cause confusion. Sometimes the celebration or the activity that's going to be taking place will be self evident to where it's going to be, regardless of what you call anything. You can't hold a football game on 78th Street. It's just not going to happen. But I do believe that it is, the park that we are building is intrinsically such a different feel. Such a different purpose that I do believe that we should keep them somewhat separate. Granted some of our celebrations may run into both locations, and I think that's great. I think they should, but they are so different in their feel that I think we have to differentiate. O'Shea: Okay, thanks. Linda Landsman: Anything else? Thank you. Franks: Is there anyone else wishing to address the commission? Sure, come on up. Melissa Berchon: My name is Melissa Berchon and I'm the Director of the library system within Carver County, but I'm not a resident of Chanhassen. I just wanted to give a few of my views on this park. I have had experience with a park that's adjacent to a library and that happened in Austin, Minnesota. They have a lovely library, about the same size of the library is here, and there's a park there. There's a walk around a pond and a park where we have programs. Where they have programs with the library, and no matter what that park was called, it was always the library park because it was adjacent to it, and because there were so many activities. So that was one of the things. The other thing is, I've been in on this process since we started with the referendum and all the way through and this has been such a public participation, this library. We had focus group meetings. We had lots of discussion about how this library was going to look and how it was going to reflect the community. We had a focus group a couple months ago with the artists in the community about how we wanted to have public art and that public art is not going to be just in the library. It's going to spill out. I guess I had always thought, and quite Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 frankly I hadn't thought much about the name but that it would be more of a public participation. That there be a contest where you would be the judges of names. Maybe it would be something where the community, maybe children, maybe families came together and offered a variety of names. I don't know, but I do know that the history of this project has been one of major public participation. Now what that means to you I don't know but I guess it always meant to me that there might be more discussion about it and quite frankly, have I thought about names? I haven't. I just know from my experience that no matter what you name it, it's going to be library park. Unless it's something that connects internally in your head with a library somehow. Maybe the poet or the authors or something like that, but just for whatever it's worth. I just wanted to tell you that. If you have any questions for me. I just know from the example that that's how it falls out, and how I see all of this happening. When the park is going together in stages and again being presented, the programs that will be presented will be through the Friends of the Library and through some of the children's services we do in the park. We want to make sure that we have portable microphones that we can take our story time out there. We want to make sure that we can have ice cream on the park, and that kind of thing so we see a lot of times. I've seen envisioned perhaps some stone monuments or something out there with authors words on it. I've seen that, or sentences or poems or something even kids do. So I've seen a lot of activities going on in that park that involve the whole community. That's all. Franks: Great, thank you. Well seeing that there's no one left, we'll bring this back to commission members. Before we do that though, are there any follow-up questions for staff?. Seeing that there aren't any, I have just a couple Todd. One is about how the funding breakdown has occurred for...the library construction and how much is coming from either city general fund expenditures or park development funds to complete the project. Hoffman: A minor allocation is coming out of the, it was subtracted from the library as a part of landscaping, and that came over to this project. The vast majority is park dedication dollars, which are dedicated to the construction of the project. Franks: So they're coming out of that 410 park dedication fund? Hoffman: Correct. Franks: Do you know about what the amount is projected for that to be? Hoffman: The contract is $670,000. And somewhere less than 70 of that is coming out of the library budget. Franks: Okay. Kelly: In this budget you had, I don't know if it's this packet but it says 1.5 and 575. Hoffman: Which budget? Kelly: In the packet we had the capital improvement program. Hoffman: Yeah, that number may have been driven down by change orders on the library side. Kelly: The 700 has but our amount has gone up. Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: Correct. Your amount has gone up, the library amount has gone down due to increased expenditures on the library budget. So there's more money going into the library out of that fund. Kelly: We'll talk about that later tonight? Hoffman: Nothing to talk about. Kelly: Well I'll make a statement anyway then. Franks: And what was the portion of the land that the city acquired that's going to the park? I can't remember the size. How much to the lot percentage to the library and how much to the park? Hoffman: It's about 50/50. Franks: About 50/50. Robinson: I have a question Todd. Has there ever been a time in the past, you talked about the park naming process, the history of it. Has there ever been a time in the past that it hasn't been named according to like location or a description like that? Like where it's gone out to have a, has that ever happened, and how does that process go? Like it went out to a contest or something like Linda said, or anything different from the, or has the commission always made a recommendation to the City Council to do that? Hoffman: All the instances, I'm not opposed if you want to go through a public naming process at all. Robinson: No, I'm just asking. Franks: We always make the recommendation. The most recent example I can think of that points to getting away from location or history is the naming of Sugarbush Park. I don't know if you've been by Sugarbush Park but that was where the neighborhood and some really involved people got together and they researched this and they helped install the playground equipment and they had some investment in the park and came to the commission and proposed that idea so. Robinson: Then the other question I have is, how soon do we need to let the company know who's making the signs? Is that a pretty quick process we need to form? Hoffman: Couple of months. Robinson: Okay. Franks: You know I'm just going to break with our format for a minute and I see that Ms. Shipley has just arrived in the council chambers and knowing how involved for a long time you've been with the library, we'll back off if you'd like to address the commission. If there's no objection from commission members. Alright. Jill Shipley: Thank you Rod. Franks: You're very welcome. Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Jill Shipley: I would just like to reinforce what I think Linda Landsman has. Franks: Would you state your name and address for the record please. Jill Shipley: I'm Jill Shipley, 261 Eastwood Court, Chanhassen, and I'd like to reinforce what I know Linda Landsman said was, that I think that this park should be named after something that reflects education, life long learning, the library. Our voters sanctioned this park. They voted to spend the money. I mean not the park, but the library. They value education and they value this commitment, our city's commitment to education and life long learning, and I would like to see it reflected in this park area so I respectfully request that you try to consider a name that reflects that and is indicative of it. I would love to see the motto for Chanhassen changed to a wonderful place to live, work, learn and play also. I think that we need that reflected in our motto. So those are just my comments for the evening. Thank you. Franks: Alright. Are there any additional follow-up questions for staff? Stolar: I just have one. Franks: Yeah, go ahead. Stolar: Todd is there any reason these other names, staff didn't put forward the recommendation like is there anything against them or you just picked one name and said this is the one we think. Hoffman: Any of the names that I listed or that the audience listed? Stolar: Either. Hoffman: No. Stolar: You have no particular, just wanted to get something out there on the table? Hoffman: Well, my whole overriding philosophy about naming this park is that we can make it as complicated, we could name it a hundred different things, but City Center Park is very simple and straight to the point and so I don't, I feel. I understand and I can certainly appreciate all the conversation about the tie in to the park and I really don't have any objection to that, so herein lies the opinions of the 7 of you. How do you want to handle the process? You know where I stand. You know where at least a few people in the audience, their opinion so you either make a recommendation to the City Council and send it on up or create a process of your own to name this site, but I support City Center Park. When it was first named, the project name, we differentiated from City Center Park because we had a park project going on at City Center Park so we named it City Center Commons. And there was a conversation at that time about what would we name the space in front of City Hall and people just said the commons so it was given a project name but. Stolar: But you see no negatives with any of the names that have been discussed? No inherent situations you think would be a problem. Hoffman: Some of them are better than others but. You want me to start giving my rank I'll do that. Stolar: What I'm thinking more structurally. Everybody has opinions. 10 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: Structurally? Stolar: Yeah, there should be. Hoffman: Put anything you want in those little letters underneath Chanhassen. I mean it is what it is. Franks: Well Glenn we'll bring it right back to you and if you have some comments, we'd like to hear them. We'll just continue right on down. Stolar: I first of all think I agree with Todd that we should, well I think we should make a recommendation today. Just send it up to City Council. We can come up with a million processes. Let's give our opinion. City Councils can do what they want with it. They may decide to make the process, but at least let them know our thoughts. I do like the idea of tying this to the literacy concept. I 100 percent object to the fact that park dedication fees are being used for this park. 100 percent object to it. But I think it's there. Literacy is important and I actually like the idea of, I don't know if I like Freedom Square because I look at it and it doesn't look square. Linda Landsman: Well square is also a term for a public location so. Stolar: Yeah, I was just saying, but Freedom Square or Freedom Park, I actually do like that idea. We live in a time where that means something and it reflects the times. Atkins: My first inclination is to leave it because I feel that it's the city's park. Not the library's park, although it is adjacent to the library but it's Chanhassen's park. But the more I just am doodling names underneath there and I also thought that possibly any confusion we could have upper commons and the lower commons or something like that, because ultimately everybody knows where City Center Commons is and they're going to know that that's part of it. But I still am a little bit undecided. I do like Chanhassen Library Commons. I think a public naming process, that sounds pretty complicated. Like a huge ordeal. Franks: Paula for clarification are you suggesting that it be City Center Park and City Center Commons? Okay. And not like City Center Commons North and City Center Commons South. Atkins: No. Franks: Okay. Kelly: I do like City Center Park. I mean it's where it is. It's in the city center. The area has always been referred to City Center something. I do like that name City Center Park and the fields adjacent, they can be known as the fields at City Center or something. They can still play off the City Center name but I do like the area called City Center Park for as Paula says, it is the city's park and you know, park dedication funds, however we may not like the fact that so much is going into the park, that's where they're going. I think we're going in the right, but my opinion is I do like City Center Park. That's it. Franks: Alright, thank you. Commissioner O'Shea. 11 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 O'Shea: Okay, I agree also that we need to make a recommendation tonight. And coming into tonight I liked City Center Park. Trying to tie in the fields, the hockey rinks, the skate park. All of that, but then I look at, after listening a little bit more and thinking as a user of a park and answering questions, you know where the activity is at City Center Park. Well you know next to the library, and I agree that you'll always have to clarify which area. And I'm thinking now is what would make it the easiest way for the person, or persons using the park to fred the location. So if you say Library Park, to me it's very clear. Now I liked Freedom Square and other things but again I think you'd get into, it doesn't depict location at all. You say well that's next to the library. So I think, and also living next to Sugarbush Park, nobody knows, I shouldn't say no one. It's, a lot of people don't know where Sugarbush Park is because it doesn't depict location so, and that's why I don't want to open it up to a contest because I think people can get really creative and come up with some great names but again we'll be going, well that's the park next to the library. So after hearing all this, the way I make a decision is what will cause the least confusion for people to find locations for activities, and that's why I'm leaning towards Library Park because it's so clear and still keep the one, City Center Park behind. So that's where I'm leaning right. Franks: Anything else? O'Shea: That's all. Franks: Alright, great. Commissioner Robinson: Robinson: And I would also agree with my fellow commissioners thus far that I think a simple choice or decision needs to be made tonight as far as making recommendation to the council to avoid any long and drawn out process type of thing. I like City Center Park, but after hearing the library folks talk and that sort of thing and heating the history from Todd about the naming of the location. A lot of times it' s named by location, and me being a very landmark person, I would be one of those people calling, saying is that the one by the library then. I would be one of those people because that's how I work and I know a lot of people do have that same sort of thought process. So I guess I'm leaning towards either Library Park or Library Commons, as well just because it's more descriptive. You wouldn't get as many questions and the confusion level would be less. Spizale: I agree with you. I just think that no matter what we name the park it's going to, everybody's going to call it Library Park. I mean the building's there. The space is there. It's connected to the library. I just feel that Library Park kind of says it all and tells us where it's at. That's it. Franks: Okay. I'm not going to stand up as high on a soapbox Glenn as you did, but I also have some feelings about the majority of that park being funded from park dedication fees, but that's the way it's going to be. It's a beautiful park. We're going to love it. We're all going to love being out there. You can just picture the kids sitting on the stone benches heating stories and the farmers market in the parking lot there. It's going to be wonderful, except for the wind blowing in from the north... A little cool breeze in the summer. It will be nice. But then again this is a park and the city is the one that's maintaining the identity of the park and maintaining the park and is paying for the park and it' s going to fit into the rest of the city' s park system so I think the city's identity, the park needs to be maintained in some form. However, we all know that people are going to be saying the park next to the library, which after a number of years is going to turn into Library Park. I think people are pretty well set with City Center Park right now, understanding that that's the fields behind City Hall. I haven't heard, oh that's the fields behind 12 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 City Hall. I haven't heard that in a number of years so I think that's pretty well established so names do become established with it's location. I sat on the commission when Sugarbush Park was named. It was a weak moment in my career as a commissioner. I will admit that now. That was, we were presented with a name for Sugarbush Park that has historical reference to the City of Chanhassen. It related to Chanhassen's symbol of the maple leaf. There was a large contingent of residents who had invested themselves in the park who proposed the name, and it was hard to say no. And yet thinking back on it, and considering how the names played out and nobody knows where Sugarbush Park is, we probably should have taken a little bit closer look at that. And so I'm very much interested personally in not making that mistake again. And so, in my wordy way I' ve come up with just an idea and that is to really take both and put them together in the sense that we've talked about City Center Park being, but really both of these areas are the fields and the commons area by the library. You can laugh. He's reading my notes... And the idea is to really take one and call it like the City Center Recreation Fields or City Center Fields and then the other one is the City Center Library Park or City Center Library Commons. To really combine the idea that this is the city's identity. It's the center of our city. It's in the city center where we've placed this wonderful park and the library, but that was the city's choice to do that right in the center of the city. And but also to give it a distinct location name as well. Todd, I appreciate the City Center Park. It makes sense, but you know you've heard me say it before that people are going to delineate that area with the library. And my feeling is, if we just call it City Center Park, people aren't going to call it City Center Park. They're going to call it something else. Park by the Library or whatever. I think that's just going to happen, but if we can combine our identity in the city with that, I think that we'll maintain the city's identity as well as the library' s identity too. I know staff probably is not going to agree with that. Hoffman: How come nobody said City Hall Park? There's another big building on this park. Franks: You really don't see City Hall much anymore. Hoffman: You do now again. Linda Landsman: Not for long. Franks: Not for long. Yeah, well. Jill Shipley: You know won't the city's name be very prominent on that Chanhassen is going to be the largest thing on the sign as you look at that in that comer. Franks: Yeah. One of the things that I'm concerned about too is that people be very much aware is that this was not, this is, the people that voted for the library referendum and used the library are just not the only people who have funded this park. Is that this is part of the city's complete park system and if you've never stepped foot in the library at all, or beefed about the referendum and it's showing up on your property tax bill for the library, but this is your park as well. They paid for it. They've earned it and they can use it. And so that's the piece about identity that I really am sensitive to maintaining. Not everybody's going to use the library. They are certainly able to, but everybody is also needs to be welcomed into this park as they're welcomed into all parks as well. Stolar: A question going to the concept of fields. We have these Hansen Fields as part of City Center Park. Rod, are you suggesting that we call this City Center Park and then underneath that Library Commons, so that it's tying it altogether. City Center Park. You have the fields, you have the library commons. 13 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Franks: Yes, that's the idea. City Center Park, Library Commons. City Center Park, you know recreation fields. Or north fields. That's what I, I'm sorry maybe that wasn't clear but that was exactly what I was suggesting. Kelly: How about Library Park at City Commons? I'm just trying to throw a preposition in there. Franks: My idea is to get away from it. You know this sounds nice now. It's a little trendy. The idea is that we've got this City Center Park. We've got the library commons and we've got the recreation fields. Now up by those north Hansen Fields, that's going to be a long. Hoffman: City Center Park Hansen Fields. Franks: City Center Park Hansen Fields, right. City Center Park north fields or City Center Park fields or recreation fields. Hoffman: Ballfields. Franks: You know I bristled at ballfields. Athletic fields, yes, because we have the hockey rinks are up there. We have the skate park is up there. There's you know the play equipment adjacent to the school and there's the tennis courts. Hoffman: How about City Center Park? Stolar: Yeah, I mean we wouldn't have to change any of the signs over there if we just call it, call of this area City Center Park and just sub-label that Library Commons, we shouldn't have to change anything up there. Franks: Well those are my ideas so. I also am in agreement that if we are able to come to a majority on a recommendation of a name, that we should do that tonight if we're able to send that up to the City Council. Yes, Commissioner Stolar. Stolar: I'd like to just make a motion so we can get going. Franks: I'd just love to entertain, the Chair would love to entertain a motion. Stolar: I make a motion that we name the park next to the library, City Center Park Library Commons. Atkins: I second that motion. Franks: As a point of clarification Commissioner Stolar, are you considering about the athletic fields? Stolar: No changes to any names that side. Franks: Okay, so those would still stay City Center. Stolar: Right. I mean it goes to my first comment. This is all City Center Park. We have a bunch of stuff there and we have the library commons over there. 14 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Franks: Okay. Commissioners Atkins, were you a second to that motion? Atkins: I seconded that. Franks: Okay there's a motion before us. It's been seconded. Is there any discussion? Kelly: On the sign, what would actually be written on the sign? It would say Chanhassen City Center Park Library Commons, so it'd be 3 lines on the sign? Stolar: That' s part of my motion because I would like people to see this as part of the entire City Center Park. It's part of your park system. There's a bunch of stuff associated with it and then the Library Commons to give someone the feel, because I still support the literary concept and the feel that we want to have in that park. They can see that as part of, we have multitudes of different fields. We have ballfields. We have skating parks. We have a thinking, education, learning area. It' s part of the City Center Park. That's who we are. Kelly: So you're hoping to see 3, all 3. Stolar: Lines. Yeah I mean, I'm not sure how much extra cost that is. I'm interested in understanding that. Hoffman: On a million 5 project. The cost associated with naming or renaming anything are not a factor. Stolar: Well we have to reprint the maps anyway to put it on the map. Hoffman: When the maps are reprinted, the name will be changed at no additional cost. Franks: Is there any further discussion on the motion? O'Shea: I wasn't sure if this was where, if I disagree or do I wait for the nay? Franks: Well, if you had a question for the author of the motion or if you're looking for some clarification this would. O'Shea: I'm just thinking it's serving, I totally agree. When I came in I agreed to try to tie all the parks together. But then practicality wise, are we the only group of people that are going to call it City Center Park Library Commons? Stolar: No actually I' 11 be calling it Library Commons is what I'll call it. The idea is you can still call it that. You know how people refer to it, the idea of the location, they're going to shorten the name. But it just ties for people visiting or people entering, it ties it together. So I'm assuming everyone's going to call it Library Commons just in the common speak. But let's have the sign say what it really is and how it ties it together. O'Shea: Okay, and I guess my point is, what it really is, is going to be a library park. It's only going to serve a purpose to this group I think. Franks: Well save that but do you have any other discussion regarding the motion. O'Shea: No. 15 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Spizale: I just think it's a good solution because I also liked both names. I thought they're great names. I think it ties in both names perfectly. Good idea. Franks: Any further discussion regarding the motion that's before the commission? Just for my clarification Commissioner Stolar if you'd restate the motion. One more time. Stolar: Motion is that we name the park adjacent to the new library City Center Park Library Commons, and on the sign it would list 3 lines. Chanhassen, City Center Park, Library Commons. Is that agreement on the second Paula? Atkins: Yes. Franks: Seeing that there's no further discussion regarding the motion we'll call the question. Stolar moved, Atkins seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to name the park adjacent to the new library City Center Park Library Commons, and on the sign it would list 3 lines. Chanhassen, City Center Park, Library Commons. Ail voted in favor, except O'Shea who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 6 to 1. Franks: If you would care to state your objection we'd entertain that. O'Shea: I just think it's going to be called Library Park and we should just name it that is the reason I objected. Franks: The motion carries. Thank you. Thanks for showing up tonight. We really appreciate it. CITY CODE CLARIFICATION: SIDEWALKS AND TRAILS. Hoffman: Thank you Chairman Franks, members of the commission. A number of years ago a clarification was made between sidewalks and trails. Their maintenance and construction in the city. Essentially to get away from developers having the position that trails or park funds should pay for the installation of sidewalks in residential communities. So there was no clear differentiation between the two. Developers would come in. Planning staff would say we need sidewalks on all these collector streets. They would come back and say well we want to get paid for that out of the city' s trail fund or park fund, and so originally sidewalk development, sidewalk recommendations were with this body and with park and recreation staff. That was changed a number of years ago. Put over into the planning folks so they would mandate sidewalks as a part of community planning. Subdivision ordinance. But then the waters muddied further because there was never clear indication that sidewalks would always be required in certain subdivisions or on certain types of roads or in certain areas of the city and so that led to additional confusion. The Planning Commission currently is going through an update of the Comprehensive Plan and what they would like to see, as ordinance language, is on the second half of this memorandum in the italic where it says sidewalks shall be required on at least one side of local streets. Trails shall be located on collector and arterial streets and off street connectors to city parks, to neighborhood commercial uses and adjacent neighborhoods and schools, or as designated in the comprehensive plan .... that is what the Planning Commission would like to hear from the park commission is do you have a position on this issue. Do you feel strongly that sidewalks should be everywhere in the city, including up and down cul-de-sacs? Some neighborhoods have them. Some of you live in neighborhoods that have them. Some of you live in neighborhoods that do not have sidewalks. 16 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 And so the Planning Commission simply is asking for your position on this issue prior to making their final recommendation to the City Council. Franks: Thank you Todd. I'll open it up to questions from commission members. Jack, we're going to start with you. Any questions for staff?. Spizale: Not at this time, no. Franks: Commissioner Robinson. Robinson: None at this time. Franks: Amy? O'Shea: I just have one question. Are they bringing it forth because it's a safety issue that they want sidewalks on all, on one side now? Hoffman: I think there's a variety of issues. Safety is one of them. Recreation is also one. Access to the city's trail system. O'Shea: Okay, that's the only question I had. Hoffman: Commissioner Kelly. Kelly: A couple of questions. I think you said, sidewalks shall be required on at least one side of all local streets. That does include cul-de-sacs? That's what they're proposing? Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: And the only question I have is, why is this coming? If sidewalks are a planning commission, why do they even want or need our input at all? Hoffman: They're looking for additional support or additional input. We from time to time send up issues up their way and they feel it's appropriate, at least out of a certain courtesy if nothing else to ask the park commission about this item. Franks: Anything else? Kelly: No. Franks: Paula. Atkins: This is a change that would affect development from now on. Hoffman: Currently it can be required. It's not mandated. So that's where the, depending on who is working with which developer, you may end up with sidewalks or no sidewalks being a part of the recommendation. Atkins: That's all. Franks: Commissioner Stolar. 17 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Stolar: I've got a couple of questions. Does this impact park dedication fees for the cost of the sidewalks are taken out, net against park dedication fees? Hoffman: No. Stolar: And it doesn't clearly state that it won't, but it starts talking about trails. Is that to make sure that the delineation then of where a trail goes. I guess I'm confused about why they would even put trails in there. Hoffman: So am I. I'm not sure that it needs to be in there. Stolar: Yeah, I mean I think they should just say sidewalks shall be required on at least one side of all local streets. Take the trail verbiage out so there's no confusion and it's just something they're changing. Hoffman: Good idea. Stolar: That's how I would direct it. Okay. Franks: Anything else? My question was very similar in that I thought that the way they have this worded here sets us up for arguments about what is a sidewalk and what is a trail on a collector street. Is this a collector street? Is this, or a resident and are they responsible for the sidewalks in, like down West 78th Street which you know is a collector street through commercial area. I mean it's just sounds like it's opening the door for lots of unintended negotiations with developers. Of course they're going to be looking to be as cost effective as possible. And so I'm perfectly okay with sidewalks being mandated as part of any furore development, but I agree. Let it talk about sidewalks and leave the trails off. The comprehensive plan is pretty clear about where we' re looking for trail construction. Hoffman: Correct. Franks: I think it just would save the Planning Commission a lot of headache, and save us a tremendous amount of headache as well. Are they looking, this is just for their information purposes, so you' 11 pass on our. Hoffman: Right. You can make a recommendation for that clarification would be appropriate. Franks: Does that require a motion Todd from us? Hoffman: It doesn't require one. Franks: No. Okay, well what I'd like to do then is to bring this back to the commission and just really see if there is consensus of commission members about deleting the language on their proposed change to city code beginning with the word trails. And really letting the, passing up the information that sidewalks be sidewalks and trails be trails and it might be more helpful for the developers and for the city not to necessarily combine the two in one paragraph statement. I' 11 just look for kind of a nod of the heads there. Consensus or whatever. 18 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Atkins: I have a question. So if that wording was changed, the Planning Commission's recommendation, would that change these Section A, Section L and Section T on these next two pages you' ve got these circled. Items about specifically about trails. Hoffman: No, it would not change those. Franks: No. The only one that would change I would imagine is in that Section B, number 5. It would probably say sidewalks will be required on however it is their language says. Hoffman: Correct. Franks: Shall be required on at least one side of all local streets. Everything else will stay the same. Hoffman: And item T speaks specifically to the trails. The City's comprehensive trail plan. That subdividers of land, abutting streets that have been designated in the city's comp plan shall dedicate land and construct those trails and an appropriate trail fee credit shall be granted. Franks: Because we already negotiated enough about that as it is. Alright, well if you could pass off the consensus of the commission. Hoffman: I certainly will. Franks: Appreciate that. Hoffman; Bob Generous, Senior Planner...and I'll pass that up to Bob and he'll take it back to the Planning Commission. RECREATION REPORTS: 2003 4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION. Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Franks. Just to update the commission from Corey. Kind of the progress of the 4th of July celebration coming up here July 3ra and 4th. Corey's been busy talking to food vendors and getting stuff kind of lined up for that. I know that he's in a daily or weekly contact with people and Dale certainly could comment to this too but we really beefed up our power up here to City Center Park. Right up here to the north. But really to address a lot of issues that we had after last year's celebration and really kind of beefed up areas and we're going to kind of lay out that a little bit differently again this year to maximize our power that we have available to us. So really should fit. There are certainly certain parts of the park where certain components have to be as far as the tents for 220 power that we have for the band, that sort of thing so those types of things will stay the same but food vendors will probably be moved around a bit this year to maximize the component of electricity that we have set up and put into place. The parade is coming up again. We've had contact with the parade committee and we have applications now available at City Hall and also up at Chanhassen Recreation Center. I know that information will be going out very shortly to all the past participants as far as mailers and flyers, that sort of thing. And then also there will be some information on our web site pertaining to the parade, that sort of thing. Also our news article coming up so hopefully we'll get the word out again on that, so that should be coming out and hitting the streets very shortly. The parade route will stay the same this year, and so we'll probably have anywhere from around that 80 float kind of parade as we've had in the past so. I know Corey's been working on securing our promotional kind of stuff and getting the t-shirts and all that stuff ordered up here and have those on the streets 19 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 here probably sometime in I supposed mid-May to late May, so they're out in plenty of time so, does anybody have any questions at all? Franks: Just one. In that I'm concerned about any preparations that be made regarding security of the upper and lower parking deck with the new library. And I'm especially thinking during the street dance portion of our festivities. I think there's just some new things that we maybe have not considered and that's just the one that came to my mind right away. There might be others and I'd appreciate it if you'd pass on to Corey to start maybe thinking of what this particular space may mean to the whole celebration and what to be prepared for. We don't want anybody falling off the deck. We don't want unwanted activity occurring in the lower portion of the deck either. Ruegemer: Great suggestions Rod. Franks: Parking ramp. Parking deck I think they referred to it as. Atkins: The library won't, I mean be nearly completed at that point, or probably nearing but a lot of people always sat on that, they'll be sitting really close to the building and around that comer, all the way up that street, right? Ruegemer: For the parade? Atkins: Yeah. Ruegemer: Yeah, the library is I think it's August 12th I think is that Thursday night and the 14t~ then is the grand, grand opening for the library so it will be close. Within a month I think. Atkins: I also was wondering if Joe Scott has done anything about organizing the teen band thing. Ruegemer: There's those rumors out on the streets and I think Corey's had some conversations with him. I can't, I don't know what those conversations are to expand on that tonight but I'll certainly get back to the commission on that. Atkins: Yeah, maybe I'll call him. Hoffman: That would come after the community parade. Inbetween the community parade and the fireworks at the back end of the tent. It' s always been the feeling that after the parade is done, all these people are downtown, just get up and leave and there's no activity downtown that they can stay. Franks: How much of the library, City Center Park Library Commons, if that's approved, will be completed? Will the grading be done? Any of the construction? Hoffman: Oh sure, yeah. There will be the hard surface done. Franks: Would there be anything that we could have available at, in the recreation department's trade fair booths saying that says you know, check out our new and expanded City Center Park Library Commons. I'm interested in making sure that the city owns that park and if we can get the jump on. 20 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: You bet. Franks: Little map of both parks. You know City Hall in the middle and the library showing City Center Park, the fields and City Center Library Commons. Hoffman: That will be our focus for this year's trade fair. Franks: Sounds good. Hoffman: We'll announce the grand opening and have the brochure for that. Franks: Great. Thank you Jerry. SELF SUPPORTING PROGRAMS: SPRING 3 ON 3 BASKETBALL. Ruegemer: Thank you again Chair Franks. This is a kind of carry over from last month. It just was intended as an FYI to make sure that I'm doing some work during the day, and this is certainly a fun league that we've started within the last couple three years of 3 on 3 basketball. It's kind of maintaining popularity so it' s, our biggest league is winter. We have anywhere from 14 to 16 teams and then fall and spring we normally have around 8 teams for that so it's additional revenues for us with minimal work here so we continue to look for revenue streams and low expenditures and high revenues so it's a pretty good thing for us. Franks: Which team are you playing on? Ruegemer: I'm not playing on any basketball teams. Franks: Gmat, thank you. We like it. It's been popular for a long time. Alright. RECREATION CENTER. Franks: We have a report from Susan regarding the recreation center. Todd, are you going to handle that? Hoffman: Thank you Chair Franks. In Susan's absence the biggest things happening at the Recreation Center are that operations, expenditure compared with revenues had the smallest gap of any year in history. The Center is operating in what I would call a very skinny budget currently and one of the repercussions of raising the fees this spring is that people were accustomed to that skinny budget at the $2.00 fee, but once the fees were raised they had a higher expectation for improved equipment, higher maintenance and so we are starting to hear the concerns that the weights haven't been replaced. We don't have enough weights so. The gap was only about $13,700, and so that's a significant improvement over the initial years that the Recreation Center. It has to do with two things. Higher level of operations and reduced staffmg costs, dramatically reduced staffing costs at the front desk. The day will come when we have to invest in new equipment and refurbish some equipment and as we jumped up those fees we started to hear those requests. The desire to see the facility upgraded. The dance program is coming up on May 3rd. That' s the largest recreation program that the City of Chanhassen offers is the children's dance. $7,000 in ticket sales for the recital to date. So it's a great program and Susan Marek has done a wonderful job. We lost our long term dance coordinator, Maryanne and Susan is helping a younger, new dance instructor carry out the program. We've had some staff changes. The art exhibits, if you haven't seen it, are absolutely wonderful. We currently have a 21 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 husband and wife team artist and photographer. Recreation Center is in good hands and it continues to be the center of our department as far as programming and public contact. Franks: Todd, are you saying that we're $13,000 away from break even? Hoffman: Yes. Franks: Is the City Council, are they aware of this? Hoffman: The Mayor is. Franks: Alright. Will you let Susan know if she were here we'd all be verbally patting her on the back but we'd all appreciate if you'd pass that onto her. It's looking really good. I know that that's something that I never expected to see. Any other comments or questions? Alright. PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE. Franks: Dale, thank you so much for your patience this evening. We'll move right on over then to park and trail maintenance. Gregory: Thank you. I'm going to back you up a little bit. We're going to go back into the winter, our skating season. This past winter we set two records again with skating. One of them being January 12th as the latest that we got going for starting our skating rinks and also it was also the longest we've ever went and that is March 12th. So we started late but we ended up with a 60 day season of skating which surprised me. I didn't think we were really going to make it that long. I also added in a skating rink opening and closing dates. I kept track since 1982, for anybody who hasn't seen it before and that will give you some idea of our opening and closing dates. I've also included a skating rink cost report. I started keeping these for about the last 5-6 years and gives you some idea exactly what it costs us to maintain the rinks. Now this year was one of the years that we did not maintain all the family rinks. It was just the 4 areas where we have warming houses. In the report towards the bottom where it gives you the total rink cost, there's a mistake there. It says 2000-2001. It's actually the year 2002-2003. Anybody have any questions on those areas? Franks: How does the cost of, that's over the 60 days of $962 per open day. Gregory: That's what the computer said on an average per what it costs to maintain it per a day. Franks: If you could just think back to like a year where we had fairly good, all the neighborhood rinks open as well. Gregory: I can even do you one better. Franks: Alright. Gregory: The year 1999 and 2000 we ran the exact same amount of days, 60 days. Franks: Great. And we had the neighborhood. Gregory: And the neighborhood parks open. Our total cost that year was $77,214, and operations per day cost was $1,286. So it ran about $20,000 more when we had all 7 rinks open. 22 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Franks: Now tell me you adjusted this for inflation too? Gregory: Nope. Actually the only, we even gave you the update to date costs on fuel. The one I have here for fuel in the year 2000, we paid 48 cents for diesel fuel and we're paying $1.13 last year. Hoffman: Actually it is adjusted because all salaries are adjusted. All costs are. Gregory: Yeah, these are all current salaries. All current everything. But I was, I found that one so I brought it along. I thought you might want to, in case you wanted some comparisons. Franks: I guess what I'm saying is if we were open 60 days with all of the neighborhood finks this year, it would have been substantially higher than what, in today's dollars. Gregory: Correct. Because, and a lot of it shows up in the salaries because we're not running 12 of the other parks. A lot of that, that's where you're going to notice the difference because we are, we've got 7 more areas that we have to run to. And it's going to take us a lot longer to get the rinks up and running. When we only have 4 of them, we can do it pretty quick. Hoffman: Four locations. Gregory: Locations, correct. So it just adds a lot more time and then fuel costs and everything all add up more. Okay. Then getting into spring and that, the guys went out, all the park staff, we cleaned all the wood ducks houses. We've got approximately 32 to 34 duck houses out. This year was really good. We ended up with a 63 percent were used compared to 53 percent last year. So we did have a real good year. We were also running short of wood duck houses so we talked to the senior men's. They came out and they built 20 more houses for us this past winter, and 10 of those went up this spring already. 2 of them were down by Centennial Hills. They requested a couple down by therr~ We put 8 more up down at Lake Susan Hills, down by the trail. There' s a swampy area down there. That' s one of our best areas for wood duck houses use. So we did increase that area and put 8 more in there for the next year, so we'll be looking at about oh well into the 40 houses next year. So it will be interesting to see what our return will be there. Other than that we've been just pretty much working on spring work and that right now and the guys are pulling in the park signs. We re-stain every one of our park signs every year. They get pulled in and they'll do it early in the year. With the lack of snow this winter we did an extensive tree trimming through a lot of our parks. We hit every one of our trails. We were able to get that stuff all cleaned up so that's already looking in good shape now. All of our preventive maintenance is pretty much done. All of our lawnmowers are gone over so we're really ready for the spring to get started. Currently right now softball is starting Thursday night so we've got fields. They' ve got those all worked up. They are currently marking out all the soccer fields and they'll be painted by the beginning of next week I think we start so we're kind of on the getting everything done. I have contacted all my seasonals. I've got about 12 out of 15 coming back this year, which is really good. And I have hired 2 more people to fdI in the spots so we are full as far as summer help. And I put one interesting note on there in that I have one seasonal that has worked for us for 3 years and he's gone into the actual field. He's gone to Hennepin Vo-Tech for grounds maintenance and everything else and he's doing his internship with us this year. So he's looking at going off to being in this field so it's some of the seasonals are actually getting into what I'm teaching them so. And that's pretty much all I've got for my report unless anybody has any questions. Franks: Are there any questions for Dale? 23 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Spizale: I've got one. Do we fertilize the parks? Fertilize the ground. Gregory: Yes we do. We do actually, this year we have cut back on our fertilizing quite a bit. That was one of my big hits in fertilizing. We do use, we do not use any phosphorous in our fertilizer. We haven't done that for at least 8 years, so we're doing everything we can. This year our major concerns on fertilizing is athletic fields and we'll be hitting those and trying to keep up on that because that's where we really take the big hit. We get soccer. We get football and baseball and everything running on the same ones and they really take a hit. So if we can keep them fertilized and keep the weeds and everything out of them, we're trying to stay ahead of the Hoffman: Do you recall the budget item Dale? It was in the, the reduction in fertilizer. Gregory: $9,000 this year. Franks: Reduction. Gregory: Reduction. Franks: And do any of the large chemical companies interested in adopt a field. This is the Bandimere Soccer commons presented to you by Tm-Green. Gregory: They could adopt it. I don't know if they're going to do it for nothing for us though. Spizale: Maybe we could name the new library park after a fertilizer company. Gregory: Like I say, this year our major concern on fertilizing and that is going to be athletic fields. We will be hitting some of the outside, like Lake Ann will all be fertilized but it's going to be just with a farm grade of fertilizer. We're cutting way back on the fertilizers. So we still will be doing the weed spraying and everything. That will continue. But like I say, that was one of the big cuts that they wanted this year was in our maintenance end of it and the fellow that we deal with is a professional turf and that is, he's kind of drawn up our program and that and he's done a real good job and he's helped us cut back where we need to and make sure we stay with what we have in our soccer fields and stuff like that. Franks: Any other questions? Good job. Keep those fields green. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. Franks: Just one. The AUAR, I can't even remember what that stands for. What does that stand for, do you remember Todd? Hoffman: No I do not. Area Wide Assessment, but I'm not sure how you get that out of there. Franks: Anyway we're meeting mostly with the Planning Commission and some other interested people to take a look at the property we looked at as a commission off 117. Hoffman: The Degler farm. Franks: Yeah, but the property right south of Degler too. 24 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: Bernardi piece. Town and Country now. Franks: Bernardi. Town and Country/Bernardi piece and that whole area. It's about 200 acres. Hoffman: 600. Franks: 600 acres. Figuring out exactly how this is going to be guided and so there are ideas to really instead of guide portions of development as they come in across this property, to really take a comprehensive look at this entire piece and begin to guide the development in it's entirety so. O'Shea: This is the Planning Commission? Franks: It's a special committee, but most of the Planning Commission members look like they sit on the committee to me. Hoffman: Staff, Rod, Planning Commission members. Franks: The mayor. Hoffman: Yep, the Mayor. Franks: And then there's a separate committee too, or is that just informational. The landowners of the area as well. Hoffman: Yeah, they've been meeting. Franks: They've been meeting as well so I have to hand it to Kate for taking this on. It's just a real proactive approach and I think it's just great so, if anybody has any input about that property from our perspective, please give me a call or e-mail or whatever and let me know what you think. Hoffman: It's the most important segment of this city left. Just so there's no confusion. It's just a big triangle and if you drive to Chaska you drive it all the time. You go down Lyman and down Audubon. Audubon doesn't go to the north, and then it's the triangle is the future 212, which cuts it into a triangle so this is Lyman and Audubon, going down to Chaska, and then 212. And that's the triangle. That's the 600 acres. It's a very large area. Lyman Boulevard to Pioneer is about a mile and then Audubon over to 101, which winds it's way through this area, is about 2 miles so it's a very large area. And then Bluff Creek is one of the major factors that winds it's way down through here. Bluff Creek winds through in this configuration and heads off down to the gorge. So Bluff Creek's a driving factor. This is the Town and Country property, right here. These are the Degler farms, stacked in here 1 and 2. The piece owned, this piece is owned by Sever Peterson, and then there's a couple large properties left over on this side... Where are the roads going to go? Where are the parks going to be? What is high density development? What is low density development? We're meeting with the school district. We feel very strongly that this is a fine location for a future school location in this city. District 112 will have a referendum this fall. It's important that we get these ideas up and on the table and so talk to your friends and neighbors. Talk to the other people in the community and Rod will keep you updated on the process. It's very key. This is one of those important endeavors. There will be no 600 acres left in the city to plan for. This is it. Stolar: Is there any easements or such, protection for Bluff Creek on that? 25 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: Yes. Stolar: So that' s probably just drawn along like a ridge or whatever. Hoffman: Yes. The Bluff Creek study which dates back 6 or 7 years designated that area and bluff requirements will be as a part of that for the Bluff Creek setbacks. There's a primary and a secondary setback. And then the idea is, those setbacks, you just can't take that property without some compensation. That's the desirable. That setback is deskable. Before that setback then you need to upzone for increased density in certain areas, if that's an acceptable solution for the commissions and the council. Stolar: And the property owners there, they've all decided they're going to sell it and develop it. Hoffman: Well, they all know it's inevitable but. Stolar: Why is it inevitable? Hoffman: Well. Stolar: I guess I'm just wondering, have they already said that or is that. Hoffman: No. They're just interested in the process. They won't tell you what they're going to sell or if they're not going to sell or if they will sell. Stolar: But they want help, a guide if they sell what they could sell to? Hoffman: Well the City is putting this process onto them. They're cooperating with the process. Stolar: Okay. Franks: But Town and Country is, right they were here before us already so they're. Stolar: They're for sure going. Hoffman: The landowner said one day that Todd, I was asking about that land and he said Todd, the ship will come in one day for my family on that land and if you're on that ship writing the checks, that's fine but that's the family piece of property and they'll be paid for it and they'll move on. Similar, most of the other property owners, they've moved on and started up again in more rural areas. It's really a difficult thing for these people to go through because yeah, there are benefits. The per acre price is wonderful but they lose something in that transition so it's a difficult process for all the people being involved in it, so as staff we're very sensitive to those issues. Franks: Are there any other committees? Kelly: Yeah, we had a meeting about the Dave Huffman 5K. We had that last week and the run, it's going to be September 13th. Same route as before. Starting at Lake Ann, ending at the America Inn. Last year, despite the rain, it rained until 8:00 a.m. that morning, we still had more runners than the previous year ran. The inaugural kids run had 40 runners despite the rain. We're hoping for this year's marketing, we want to get the word out on the run to more people and 26 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 we're looking for ways to do that. Both on the normal 5K and on the kids portion as well so if anyone has any ideas as to how to get the word out, some good avenues to promote the run, please call me or e-mail me. Particularly I'm sensitive towards the kids run. I really want to get, I really want to build that number from 40 to maybe 60 or 80 hopefully so. But everything else is pretty much status quo right now. We're just in the initial stages of it. I don't know if I missed anything with that update. Ruegemer: No, that's fine Commissioner Kelly. Ken Garvin, Committee member and myself had a conference call with KFAN radio on Monday and they are on board again this year with air, radio advertising. Also with on air personalities like Mike Morris is going to come in again and so they're a good partner for us, as far as kind of getting kind of our mouthpiece to a wide variety of an audience as well too so...to come on board again. Dan Seamans is a general manager. He's a resident of Chanhassen so hopefully we're near and dear to his heart being in town here. We did certainly try to talk his pocket book open a little bit on Monday as well so hopefully that could come to here too so everything, like Tom said earlier, is starting again and I think we're going to try to mention it or kind of promote it as a fun run/walk to try to get that walking element in there as well. And hopefully that will invite more people to attend versus just I think a natural running event so. Franks: So are we going to be running by the new City Center Park Library Commons on farmers market day? Ruegemer: We will be running past the new area, yes. That's correct. Franks: Right on farmers market day. Kelly: Is that farmers market day? Hoffman: There is a farmers market committee being, it's implemented so if you're interested in teaming up with the Chamber of Commerce, those folks, they would be so excited if you would send somebody down their way. Kelly: Also might want to add, because the kids run this year I may not be able to run so there is the mandatory participation of at least one commission member to run the 5K so I'm looking to see who's going to step up this year and run. Franks: I did it last year. Robinson: My son will definitely be there. He wanted to do it last year but something came up so he will definitely be there. Franks: My kids ran it last year. They loved it. They still talk about it. Kelly: And we had, they were handing out medals to the kids. Robinson: Awesome. Just awesome. Franks: Thanks Tom. Any other commission member committee reports? Seeing none we'll move on to commission member presentations. 27 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Franks: We'll save you from having to talk about yourself because Todd was nice enough to include your application and resume in the administrative packet. Robinson: Oh I have more to say. Franks: I'm sure that you do and you've got the next 3 years. If you thought this was a short stint you were mistaken. But we all want to formally welcome you to the commission and we really look forward to serving with you for the next few years anyway. Robinson: Thank you. I'm looking forward to being part of it. Franks: Great. We're an intimidating bunch but once you get to know us, I think it will be okay. But again welcome. Let's move on to the administrative packet. Hoffman: Other commission member? Franks: Oh, any other commission member presentations? O'Shea: I have one actually. Franks: Oh okay. O'Shea: I have an issue of safety on one of the trails. On the north tunnel going under Highway 5, has it been brought up as you' re going down the trail and you have to take that hard left. Hoffman: Which one? Galpin? Lake Ann or. O'Shea: It's Bluff Creek, but you're on the north side of Highway 5 so then as you're going down and you're going left underneath Highway 5 there's that sharp left and then if you don't make that left, in front of you is Bluff Creek, the creek, but before that there's these big rocks that you know are really want, even if it isn't slippery, but there's a mud build-up there too that I'm afraid some of the younger kids are just going to, somebody's not going to make that curve and they're going to end up in those rocks. So a guardrail or something, if someone could look at that. Hoffman: First time I've heard of it. Dale, has anybody ever mentioned it to you? Gregory: Never heard anything like that. Hoffman: We'll take a look at it and we'll give you back a report. O'Shea: Great, thanks. Hoffman: Those underpasses are, we have a love-hate relationship with those underpasses. Lots of ice build-up. They're great access but our winters have not been the best. Gregory: A lot of ice and that. The one actually under Coulter Boulevard out by the Rec Center, we had as much as 2 feet of ice over that whole trail through the wintertime. Hoffman: There's issues where we have to close them, but we'll check into that. 28 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 O'Shea; Thanks. Franks: Thanks Amy. Any other presentations? ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Franks: Glenn, any comments from you regarding the administrative packet? Stolar: One question on the part of the cutbacks that are being potentially faced by the REACH group. Does that impact the services that we just agreed to get from them? And then obviously the capital improvement budget, forgot our schedule again. We go back through this when? That we look at the 5 year plan that we just did not too long ago. Hoffman: Coming up in June-July. Stolar: How time flies. Because how did the decision to increase the park dedication amount of the library park, the library commons come about? Hoffman: Administratively through the city manager's office and, the negotiation or the construction budget on the library is a fixed amount and as that was driven down through approvals by the City Council, the City Council recognizes that our budget, the park continues to be increased as a part of park dedication. And I appreciate your comment about the funding source. I made my position known as well I believe there, a separate funding source should have been identified but there was no others that came to the forefront so park dedication was the funding source that we utilized for this facility. Stolar: Well in, I guess I would request that the city manager come speak to us. I'd like to ask him about it. I'd like to ask him how he will explain to people, because obviously we're going to have to take a replacement of a swing set or playground set and we're going to have to take that off our budget. Hoffman: There will be changes in the capital budget. Stolar: You know I understand that we are a recommending and advisory only, but I would appreciate maybe if we could ask him to appear before us so we can better understand the priority issues he's facing. But I also want to know is there an opportunity for us to reduce the budgets spent on the library commons, City Center Park Library Commons such that we don't increase and we can fix the amount of park dedication. Is that possible? Hoffman: The project's been awarded. The project's been awarded. All change orders, or all add alternates were accepted and the contracts have been signed so, the money's spent. Stolar: Okay. What is the number that you said that we're now, it's over $600,000. Hoffman; Yeah, 670 1 believe was the contract. Stolar: And they've reduced the library contribution below 70. 29 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Hoffman: Approximately 70, yes. I'm not in charge of that number so I'll get it for you but. I'll ask the city manager. He may come on down and he may send an explanation, written explanation. Stolar: Or we bring it up, if the City Council accepted our recommendation of our participating quarterly with them, maybe that would be something I'd volunteer to go to that meeting where we talk with them. Franks: I think where you're at, similar to me is, you can only raise this fund so many times before there's absolutely nothing left and then people are going to stand in front of us like Stone Creek and say, when do we get our Phase Il or whatever and we'll say you're not. And it's going to become our problem when it hasn't been our problem so at least if we have the information to give back that' s meaningful instead of you know sitting here throwing up our hands now knowing what to tell people, that would be really helpful. Not only for us but as the fa:st point of contact as people work their displeasure on up. Hoffman: As part of this year's capital we'll take a look at that. We're nearing that point now where the Highway 101 trail, the south connector trails, the underpass connectors and this park project has taken our park funds from about a million 9 on down to about $400,000. Stolar: And I would hope during that discussion also, and I'll be bold enough to bring it up, that we talk about, do we put forward our recommendation for maintenance fund. And time's right as far as the evolution of this city and where our parks are. There aren't a lot of new parks. I mean this development we'll have some new parks but there aren't a lot of new parks to build so now we've got to figure out how to fund the maintenance. Thank you. Franks: It was my impression at the joint meeting that the City Council was very interested in that maintenance aspect so I think it's something that they'd certainly be open to. I know since you' ve got some experience with the Eden Prairie and if you have those, that information. Stolar: Yeah I sent Todd some of it. What I don't remember is when they did the referendum and all the things that were included in it. That occurred before I joined the committee there but we could talk, is Bob still there? Hoffman: You bet. Franks: And understanding of how they did their maintenance ranking. Stolar: That I sent, the prioritization. They had 6 different categories. And they did mix, they did commingle some of the new with the maintenance but they had a maintenance referendum to fund and add to the improvements. Franks: Now you're wondering what you got yourself into. Alright, anything else regarding the administrative packet? One other comment from me and Todd, is this, I noticed the comment from A1 Klingelhutz regarding the wake board and waterski tournament on Lake Susan and then I see another letter here about the shoreline erosion. When is it typically that they' 11 come up and request for the permit? Jerry. Ruegemer: Typically it's been by now Rod. Franks: And are they thinking of coming back then this year? 30 Park and Recreation Commission - April 22, 2003 Ruegemer: I have not had any contact with the INT so I'm assuming they're looking elsewhere. Franks: Okay. Hoffman: Loft Haak, our Water Resource Coordinator has responded to Mr. Klingelhutz' concerns at the request of the City Council. When her report is complete for the council, I'll make sure that's included in your admin packet. There are a number of issues going on at Lake Susan. Lake Susan has made tremendous advances in it's water quality in the past 6 or 7 years. The erosion issue is not simply a boat issue. It's a natural erosion issue. Erosion caused by wind driven waves is just guesstimate 90 percent of the erosion that occurs in the lake. It happens day and night. It's not due to boat traffic the erosion that takes place. But preventing that by having good shoreline restoration and/or good shoreline conditions is really what we want to be working on. Franks: And that's ongoing. Hoffman: Ongoing. Franks: If Lori is ever interested in coming down to give a brief informational presentation about water resources in the city, and open herself up for just some general questions about that, maybe sometime this summer when we're agenda light, I think it'd be great to have her come down. Hoffman: She's very good at that and she would appreciate the opportunity. Franks: Alright. Seeing that we've exhausted the administrative packet is there a motion to adjourn? Spizale moved, Atkins seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 31