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PC 2007 10 02 CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 2, 2007 Chairman McDonald called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Mark Undestad, Dan Keefe, Kathleen Thomas and Jerry McDonald MEMBERS ABSENT: Debbie Larson, Kurt Papke and Kevin Dillon STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; Bob Generous, Senior Planner; Jill Sinclair, Environmental Resource Specialist; Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Krista Torgerson, Natural Resources Technician PUBLIC PRESENT FOR ALL ITEMS: Jerry & Janet Paulsen 7305 Laredo Drive Debbie Lloyd 7302 Laredo Drive PUBLIC HEARING: SCHERLE VARIANCE: REQUEST FOR AN AFTER-THE-FACT VARIANCE TO A SIDE YARD SETBACK TO CONSTRUCT A GARAGE ADDITION ON PROPERTY ZONED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL (PUD-R) LOCATED AT 8541 FLAMINGO DRIVE, APPLICANT: DAVID & JULIE SCHERLE, PLANNING CASE NO. 07-22. Public Present: Name Address David & Julie Scherle 8541 Flamingo Drive Daniel Tan 8551 Flamingo Drive Robert Whims 8556 Flamingo Drive Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item. McDonald: Mark, any questions? Undestad: Just one on the driveway. You said there was a hard surface issue and now that's been, with the shed, square footage and everything else is okay on there? Generous: Right. They removed the excess. There used to be an expansion on the driveway that was in there. There's some retaining walls and some other things that the property owner removed in the interim since when they were first notified that that was an issue and the present time. Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Undestad: The square footage of the shed area is, that can stay. That square footage is okay? Generous: I believe that was included in, I don't know. I had it. Yes, the shed was included in that. And it would comply. Undestad: Okay. McDonald: Okay. Thomas: Yeah, okay. Of the things that they removed in the interim, does that also include the shed that's in the back, or is that. Generous: No, that's still. Thomas: That's still there on the property. And then I saw in the paper where it said the city, we maybe could put it on the back side of the garage I believe is what I was reading. Is that really a viable space or? Generous: Not if you look at it, not immediately behind the garage. Thomas: Okay. Generous: Unfortunately the survey doesn't show all the improvements on the property. It's from the original building permit application and so if you look at the picture you can see there's a deck behind there. Thomas: Okay. Generous: But there is room in the rear yard that a structure could be incorporated. Thomas: Could be incorporated in back. Okay. That was my question. Thank you. McDonald: Dan. Keefe: The, this is a PUD. Is the setback in the rear 5 feet like it is in RSF? Just out of curiosity. Is it 5 in the back for accessory structures and then 10 on the sides and that's for RSF right? And that's what was applied in this particular PUD? Generous: Yes. Keefe: It is. So it's consistent with the. Generous: With the RSF. Keefe: With the RSF. Alright, so we don't have a conflict there. Okay. That's all I have. 2 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 McDonald: I don't have any questions at this time for staff. Is there someone here to present the applicant? Would you step up to the podium and state your name and address and just address the commissioners and tell us your side of all this. Dave Scherle: My name's Dave Scherle, 8541 Flamingo Drive. We think the location of the shed is the best place for it and we're hoping to get the variance to keep it there. Angie, the planner, she was suggesting we put it behind the garage where it would fit there, but to drive our motorcycle back in that location we'd have to go over grass and we can't, it just, the motorcycle weighs over 800 pounds and it, it'd be too much, too dangerous. You'd have to drive over grass or dirt and you could damage the motorcycle or injure the rider, and the shed itself will have the same siding as the house has and the roof will have the same kind of shingles as the house has and the soffits and the eaves will have the same color as the house too so it should fit right in with the house, but it won't be part of the garage. It will be right next to the garage. It won't be actually you know connected. But it's right next to the, to the garage. We'd have to remove the sidewalk that the shed is on right now to meet the requirements of the hard cover so that's why we'd have to be driving on grass to get the motorcycle back there. So that's the main reason why we need it where it's at right now. That's it. McDonald: Okay. Mark. Undestad: Yeah, just one, well actually a couple questions here. The foundation, is it a below grade foundation or is it just the sidewalk and you're building. Dave Scherle: Just the sidewalk. Kind of a floating slab. Undestad: Okay. So it will move in the wintertime when… Dave Scherle: Yeah. There could be some movement with it, yeah. Undestad: And looking at how this sits on there, I realize where you're at in the stages right now when it's out there. Did you look and see, can it be just pushed back along the garage a little more to get it out of that easement area? Dave Scherle: Well, I looked at that and I, there isn't, you know I was actually thinking about doing that because I was going to try getting some rollers underneath to move it back farther but it would still be in that easement. Otherwise yeah, that is a really good idea. Yeah there is, it still would be in the easement. Undestad: And that sidewalk then that you've got already poured in there, you can maneuver your motorcycle around the front of the garage to get into that? Dave Scherle: It will be a little tight but I think I'll be able to do it. McDonald: Okay. 3 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Dave Scherle: Might have to put in a, you know I'm a little, I've got probably a little bit of play with the hard cover where I could put in some concrete blocks in that corner to help make it a little bit easier. Undestad: It looked a little tight for that. Dave Scherle: Yeah. Yeah, it is pretty tight so that, I might have to do that but there is some easement, I've got I don't know how many feet but I've got a few square feet. I could just get that in there. Because I would like to make it easy as I could to get in and out. Undestad: How far back, if you could move it back, do you know, did anybody, how far back would it have to go before it's outside of the easement area. Do you know? Dave Scherle: I'm not sure. Undestad: 15, 20 feet. Aanenson: I'd say about 20, yeah. Generous: Probably a little bit farther. Dave Scherle: Because the long property line is not too far from the retaining wall so, but it does, you know it does have a few feet but you know for that kind of feet, you'd have to go back probably by the oh, the deck back there I think probably to get to that far. Undestad: Would it have to be that big for the motorcycle? Dave Scherle: Does what? Undestad: Does it have to be that big? Dave Scherle: No, it doesn't have to be quite that big but you'd still would have to move it so far back. I don't know, let's see the motorcycle's 103 inches long I think. It's pretty long. But yeah, it wouldn't have to be quite that big. You could make it smaller but if that's what it would take to get it, we could do that too. I mean it's able to take it down and move it. I mean if we have to, we'll take it down and that's all that's to it too. If we don't get the variance so. Undestad: That's all for me. McDonald: Kathleen. Thomas: So I want to know what kind of bike it is. Dave Scherle: It's a Gold Wing. Thomas: Gold Wing? 4 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Dave Scherle: Yeah. Thomas: Okay. We have a motorcycle too and I, so I was just curious. Then are you, is it going to be heated? Is it just going to be like a garage? Dave Scherle: Just a garage. Thomas: Just like a garage. Dave Scherle: Yeah. Not heated. Thomas: Not heated. You'll have to go start it and, okay. Alright, I'm good. Keefe: Just to probably state the obvious, were you aware that a permit was required for doing that? Dave Scherle: I didn't think for 120 feet or less you needed a permit for it. That was what I have heard before and I thought that was the case for this. Keefe: Okay, that's it. McDonald: Okay. Where do you currently store your motorcycle? Keefe: It's in the garage with some lumber and stuff right now and the car is outside right now. McDonald: Okay. And how long have you been doing that? Is it just kind of a seasonal thing in the winter you'll put the motorcycle away? Keefe: Well right now, see our old motorcycle that we owned before, we just got this July. I could fit in the garage and it was okay. Plus it was easier. It was a smaller motorcycle. I could drive it on the grass and get it to the back shed to store. But in the summer I could, yeah or summer I could get it off the side so I could get the car in and out and then my back was bothering me with that motorcycle so we bought this other motorcycle to you know help out on the back and it really has because there's not much vibration on a Gold Wing. McDonald: Okay. And then on the shed itself, how wide does it really need to be because it looks as though, could you narrow things up? Bring it in closer to the garage? Keefe: See it's really pushing it for even a 4, I've got like a 4 1/2 foot garage door that I can just get in there. That's the best I could and let's see what is it? 3 1/2 feet wide I think from mirror to mirror so there's not a lot, even with that 4 1/2 foot garage door for you know, you have a little bit on each side but you want something on each side of the motorcycle to get in there so you don't hit. Hit the door. 5 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 McDonald: Okay. And the retaining wall that's shown in that photograph, is that something that was built as a part of putting the shed up, or was that already existing? Dave Scherle: That was already existing and the only thing that's left of that is the retaining wall the length of the shed. It's been removed in front of it. Well it actually goes a little bit in front of the shed. It goes probably approximately 3 or 4 feet. I can't remember exactly. There's an apron. It comes out to that. Actually it shows on the picture here. That it comes out. The retaining wall comes out to there. So yeah, so the retaining wall starts there and goes all the way to the back of the shed right now. The rest has been removed because of the hard cover. McDonald: Okay. And okay currently you've got a patio on the back side so that's why you're saying that the shed actually couldn't be moved around to the back then? Dave Scherle: Well, if we did move it around to the back, you'd have a hard time getting the motorcycle to it because I'd have to be going on grass with it and you should really be on hard surface to be moving that motorcycle around. Because it could easily, you could easily dump it. I haven't dumped it yet and I hope I never do. It's a lot of weight to pick up. McDonald: 800 pounds, that's going to be kind of hard. Dave Scherle: Yeah. McDonald: Well I guess I don't have any more questions at this point. Undestad: Just one more. Dave Scherle: Okay, sure. Undestad: The shed, is the primary use, is it for the winter storage of the bike or is it just for all time? Dave Scherle: It will be all the time is what we were planning on using it for. McDonald: Okay. Well we thank you for coming up and addressing us then. Dave Scherle: Thank you. McDonald: Okay. At this time then I would open up the floor for public comment on this issue and if anyone wanted to come up and make comment, please do so. When you get to the podium, if you will state your name and address and address your comments to the commission. Robert Whims: Hi, I'm Robert Whims. I live right across the street from Dave. 8556 Flamingo Drive and I just wanted to say the garage, it looks good so I hope you give it to him. McDonald: Okay, thank you. 6 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Daniel Tan: I'm Daniel Tan, 8551 Flamingo Drive. Just a neighbor to the side. You know aesthetically the garage looks good and I think you guys, I think…I think you guys should let it be there. Thank you. McDonald: Okay, thank you. Does anyone else wish to come up before the commission? Okay well at that point then I guess I will close the public meeting portion of this and I'll bring it back up for the commissioners for open discussion then. Why don't we start down here with Dan. Keefe: Yeah, I've got just sort of two thoughts on it. One is you know, if we allow this to go in on this side and then say the next door neighbor or you know that's adjacent to him, you know decides they want to do that and because it's on this we sort of, maybe are obligated to do that. Then you end up with a pretty small space inbetween the houses. Do we end up with a potential you know issue with fire and being able to get emergency vehicles or so far, you know. I think in part the purpose for the setbacks is to allow you know space for, space between the houses both for maybe emergency vehicles and then also just for aesthetic reasons, so kind of torn on that issue. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that. The side setbacks. McDonald: That's kind of what I'm kind of torn between too. Those things are put in there for the reason that you state. It's very, I mean we face this same problem just about everything that comes before us. You know developers come in, sell us on a house. It meets the setbacks and they go right to the limit and then we end up with the homeowner trying to do something and we tell them they can't. But the setbacks are there for a reason and you know we are very consistent with that so yeah, I understand. I'm kind of torn on this myself. Kathleen. Thomas: I'm the same issue. I can totally understand setbacks, if we grant them like this it creates like a slippery slope of who else will want the same type of thing, but I understand what the gentleman is saying about the shed. It being, it's really I'm quite torn just because I see it, both sides so. McDonald: Mark. Undestad: Well you know primarily it's drainage in there too. Everything goes from the back of that lot out to the street to the front of that lot. You know if we start pushing those setbacks and drainage in there, you know you've got a happy now. I'm sure he wants to keep him that way too instead of flooding out his basement in there when the heavy rains come in but again, nobody likes to see something that's already built and have to start moving things around but you know, that's again, that's why we have the setbacks and the easements and basically the no build… McDonald: Yeah, I guess the thing I'm kind of torn between is that you know emotionally you're probably one of the nicer guys to come up before us and ask for this. Most everybody else is very much in our face about why we ought to do this. The setbacks are there for a reason. The drainage is very important. We have a lot of problems within the city as far as drainage. Every time a developer comes in, that's part of the design process that we go through with the developer to say you've got to do this as far as drainage and they put this stuff in. What you're asking us to do is similar to two other applications that came in before us and I know that in one case we asked a guy to take out a gazebo because he was on easement and drainage and it was 7 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 just going to create a big problem. It was a beautiful structure. He had a lot more money into it by the time he got to us than you know what you've got at this point but we have to enforce the rules and they're there for a reason. One thing staff does, we study these things very hard to give homeowners maximum use of their property without interfering with the rights of others. I understand, and again we all feel kind of your pain about this. Yeah, 800 pound motorcycle, you've got to put it someplace. Gold Wing's a beautiful bike and everything but the problem that we run into is that we can't base decisions based upon that. I just don't believe we can do that or anyone can come in here and again give us a good story and reasons why, we've had to turn down people because of physical handicaps and everything and that's the hard part about this job but I guess you know my leaning is, yeah I would feel for you and everything. You've got a good reason I guess for building the shed to begin with. I appreciate your civility about coming up here and the way you've approached this and stuff but I'm probably going to have to lean on the side of where the rules are at. I guess. Undestad: Can I add one thing though? Again I mean you can go to the council on that but these types of structures too when they're built without foundations on there, and again being in the area that it's in with the drainage and that, there's potential for a lot of movement. You know hinging off your house. You can be kind of faced with problems quite a while as that thing constantly goes up and down. You know it will pull away from your house. Go back to your house. Kind of the reasons too why you know a lot of the stuff, sheds like this should be put on something a little more stable foundation wise. McDonald: Any further comments? Then I guess at this time we're ready to accept a recommendation. Who'd like to. Undestad: I'll get it here. Recommend the Planning Commission denies Planning Case 07-22 for a 7 foot 3 inch side yard setback variance from the required 10 foot side yard setback for the th construction of a shed on Lot 4, Block 1, Lake Susan Hills West 5 Addition based on the Findings of Fact in the staff report. The Planning Commission further directs that number 1, the applicant must move the shed. Comply with zoning ordinance. And the applicant must revegetate all removed hard surface as with grass seed or sod. Keefe: Second. McDonald: Okay. Undestad moved, Keefe seconded that the Planning Commission denies Planning Case #07- 22 for a 7 foot 3 inch side yard setback variance from the required 10 foot side yard th setback for the construction of a shed on Lot 4, Block 1, Lake Susan Hills West 5 Addition, based on the Findings of Fact in the staff report. The Planning Commission further directs that: 1. The applicant must move the shed and comply with the Zoning Ordinance. 2. The applicant must re-vegetate all removed hard surface areas with grass seed or sod. 8 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 All voted in favor, except Thomas who opposed and the motion carried with a vote of 3 to 1. McDonald: Okay, motion passes 3 to 1. What I would suggest is you talk with the city staff on this. You have a right to appeal this up to the City Council. The minutes of this particular hearing will go into the packet for the City Council. You may be able to reach a compromise with staff that would work within the ordinance and everything and still accommodate what you want. I think you'll find them very accommodating and try to help give you some you know good ideas as to what to do. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: PARKS & OPEN SPACE, NATURAL RESOURCES ELEMENTS. Public Present: Name Address Tim Erhart 9611 Meadowlark Lane Glenn Stolar Park and Rec Commission Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mr. Chair, members of the Planning Commission. As you know the last year we spent a lot of time going through the evolution of the comprehensive plan, which I'm happy to announce is out and out for press. It did go out last Friday for jurisdictional review. It is required for 6 month open hearing date, so that time is starting right now. I also wanted to let you know, you do have a hard copy, the entire hard copy in front of you. Just for everybody else, for their knowledge and information, the entire comprehensive plan draft is on the city's web site, so if anybody's interested in reading a particular chapter, I hope you read all the chapters, they can go online and do that. The goal of the public hearing process to get input from our residents to see if we're moving in the right direction and address their concerns. Not only our residents but the jurisdictions that it goes out to, includes the school districts, the watershed districts, DNR, just to name a few. So we're hoping to get positive input, or informative input that we can respond to as we move forward in the process. So as we set up this process we're going to take a couple chapters at a time for you to hold the public hearing and to gather that input and at the end of that process, as we break it down, we'll move into January where we respond in writing to the comments that are received and the staff that it's more appropriately addressed to will also respond so actually you'll have that collection of responses. So whether it goes to engineering or parks and rec or planning, we'll respond to those comments and you can see what those are. Then ultimately your comments will be forwarded up to the City Council for their review and then after we have the 6 month jurisdiction review, it goes up to the Met Council who gets another 60 days to review. So we're looking probably in sometime the first part of July for final adoption. So I just wanted everybody to know there's plenty of time to get comments into the city. If you want to call and speak to the person that would be most appropriate to talk to, whether it's engineering, city forester, the planning department to talk to and get your questions answered. We hope people take the time to review that. So for tonight the first two chapters that we'll be looking at will be the natural resources which includes forestry, natural resources and water resources and then park and rec. The Environmental 9 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Commission did review that and I'll let those folks talk a little bit about the input from the Environmental Commission and then the Parks and Rec Commission also had an opportunity to review their chapter. The City Council cumulatively looked at the entire process before we went out to press too and is looking forward to getting the comments and the opinions of those people reviewing it. So with that, if there's any questions on the process that we're going through. Otherwise I'll turn it over for the presentation tonight. Again the goal here is to open a public hearing. Take comments. Close the public hearing on this. Again we'll collect all those when we come back, more than likely it will be the first meeting in January. We'll probably still be discussing land use, in that first meeting in December, and get those comments back will probably go into January to get those all back to you. So after we close the public hearing tonight, we also, if you have questions for us or concerns that you want us to address or the appropriate department heads here or divisions here, to address those, we'll be happy to do that too. So with that, if you don't have any other questions I'll turn it over to presentations. McDonald: I have one question from a procedural standpoint. Just want to make sure I understand. At the end of tonight's meeting, is the meeting actually closed or is it still opened until. Be careful. Kate Aanenson: It's still open. The goal tonight is to allow for people to give input on this particular topic but if somebody still wants at a later date, even when we're talking about land use, if someone still wants to come up about parks. The reason we noticed it is we have the appropriate people here to respond to those particular comments so that's how that can be addressed. McDonald: Okay. Thank you. Keefe: Is there a formal submission in terms of questions? I mean is it just phone calls or emails or. Kate Aanenson: Whatever people are comfortable with. If they want to call, we'll take their name down. We've received some emails on some particular issues so you'll see a summary of those comments. And then how we responded to it so you can see that we've…and there's a long process for public comment. And we're just trying to break it down into bite size pieces and try to make it, and this also was published in the paper. Noticed with these two topics tonight. And then with input…which we've pretty much done every couple of months to kind of keep people updated. And then also certainly check the web site because there's, all the drafts are out there as far as the hearing dates. McDonald: Okay. And with that I guess we're ready to start. Sinclair: Thank you Chair, commissioners. I will briefly go over, we have an overview of the natural resources section and in particular the natural communities and forestry sections and then I'll turn it over to Krista Torgerson to go over the water resources. So before I get into the new revision of this chapter and this section I thought I'd do a quick overview of what is in the current 2020 plan for natural resources, and in that plan it established kind of the ground work for protection and importance of the natural resources and it emphasized the value and the 10 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 significance of these resources to the Chanhassen residents and that there is a need for a variety of resources, whether it be field or forest or lake or anything like that. And then it also identifies the individual resources. It called out for natural features which included topography and drainage and vegetation and then went to more specifically lakes, wetlands, creeks and rivers, tree cover, wildlife and vegetation, and then also addressed ground water protection and agricultural character preservation. Now in the revision, we kind of get a broader perspective on things and we're looking at 3 main objectives for that for natural resources. We continue with the protection. We still want to emphasize that, but we're also seeing the need for the restoration and management components for natural resources. And we modified the approach to these resources. You know all the dominant features, lakes, wetlands, fields, forests that were mentioned earlier are now covered under kind of two main umbrellas and that is natural communities and water resources. For natural communities, that kind of encompasses the diversity of communities in Chanhassen again from forest to prairies, lakes to wetlands, as well as bluff areas and it's a comprehensive approach to the natural areas that allows for a broad representation of the different communities we have existing in Chanhassen right now. The goals for the natural communities include the preservation and protection of the variety of natural environment, and recognizing the importance of the natural environments to the quality of life. You know it means a lot to the residents here if they can come over a rise of the hill and have a great scenic vista of rolling hills or a forest or anything like that. And then emphasizing the need to protect and enhance these resources. Which then leads us to the management plan component. As we increase the amount of public natural areas, it's necessary that we get to organized and prioritize these areas and their needs. A natural resources stewardship plan will be vital to establishing the protection, restoration and management needs of these areas. As well as an urban forestry plan to kind of guide city activities regarding those assets. The goals for management plan, including gauging the public in the management of natural areas as well as restoration, protection and improvements of natural communities through proper management techniques. This is an example of some of the current restoration projects we have and some potentially future projects. I'm not sure how, it doesn't come up that well but slashed areas are current land management areas. Yellow slashing are current water restoration areas. And then the shaded areas, whether yellow or red, are potential areas. Everything that is highlighted in black is public space right now. Some of the yellow areas include public and private areas. It may look like a small amount of area compared to the entire total of Chanhassen but the time and money that's required to manage these areas is quite great and it will continue as we acquire more and more land as development goes on. Some of the things that we do as part of restoration for natural areas in Chanhassen right now are burns for prairie management, buckthorn removal, and then starting this year we started doing some garlic mustard removal as well. What's not showing and what we also do is planting. Tree planting, perennial, shrubs, things like that. Kind of the icing on the cake after the work is all done. Now for urban forestry, I was really excited when I found these two pictures. 1954 Chanhassen is a fairly bare area, and then in 2001 we have a nice aerial view of Chanhassen and it looks like a lovely leafy, green city. And that's what we're striving to continue well into the future. And this green infrastructure, which is along the lines of gray infrastructure, buildings and streets, things like that, green infrastructure has public economic benefits as well. You know trees reduce air pollution. A heat island effect. They increase property values. They reduce runoff and erosion. They have a lot of economic impact on our community, and as such they should be viewed as assets and managed as an investment. To that end we have two goals and that's increasing the 11 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 total cover of trees in Chanhassen, and then maintaining a healthy and diverse urban forest. We have multiple threats on the horizon, whether it be the emerald ash bore or new diseases that come along that have the same impact as Dutch elm disease. Environmental impacts such as a drought this summer you know that all has a profound affect on our trees in town and we need to respond to those as quickly as we can. An urban forestry management plan would help us do that more effectively. And then some of the things that we will help us get to that point of having our goals met would be maintaining our current tree inventory. We have inventoried most trees on public property right now. It would be nice to have that implemented and put into our GIS completely so that it's information that could be used on different planning and engineering projects. Developing a forestry management plan will be crucial to maintaining a good forestry program here in the city. And then implementing a tree cover analysis which would let us know not only you know if we have a goal of a 50% cover, how close are we to that. And you know, is it 80% ash? Is it 20% maple? You know where are all the species fall out. So that is kind of the land part of the natural resources section. Krista Torgerson will continue with the water resources. Torgerson: I'm going to start with the goals of the water resources program for the 2030 comp plan. The first being protect and rehabilitate wetlands. Maintain or improve function and value. Provide information and educational resources in order to promote an active public role. Maintain primary responsibilities for managing water resources at the local level while continuing to coordinate and cooperate with other organizations and agencies. Preserve and protect the variety of natural environments. Protect and enhance natural and water resources, achieve water quality standards in lake, streams and wetlands. And then finally establish and maintain a comprehensive water resources program that protects and improves the quality of existing water resources. Part of that, a big part of that is the Second Generation Surface Water Management Plan which was adopted in August of 2006. The purpose of this plan is to serve the city as a guide in order to protect and preserve and enhance water resources. So the goal of this plan, the main goal is a 100 year flood protection, classification of all surface water bodies, including wetlands. Achieve water quality standards in lakes, streams and wetlands. Minimize erosion and sediment. Establish and maintain water resources funding sources. Maintain primary management responsibility while continuing to coordinate with other agencies and organizations and then education. There are three main surface water features in the city of Chanhassen. Those being lakes, wetlands and then creek and river corridors. There are two main sources of pollution that impact water quality for our surface waters. The first is point source pollution. This is pollution generated by a single use or source. Some examples of this would be direct discharge from businesses, factories or treatment facilities. Non-point source pollution is not generated by single source and therefore harder to identify. Some examples of this are runoff containing fertilizers, yard waste or other hazardous materials, for example road runoff. Oil maybe spilled in parking lots, that sort of thing. Starting with lakes, Chanhassen contains 9 major lakes. Christmas Lake, Lake Ann, Lake Lucy, Lake Minnewashta, Lake St. Joe, Lake Riley, Lake Susan, Lotus Lake and Rice Marsh Lake. In order to address the management and monitoring of our lakes, there's a few different things that we do that are specific to lake management. Lake management plan. This plan, these plans list goals for increasing fish population, reducing nutrients, exotic species control and some landscaping for water quality. Lake monitoring, the city monitors current lake conditions through aquatic vegetation surveys, lake water quality studies and lake monitoring data. The city of Chanhassen 12 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 also participates in the Camp program which is a citizen based program. The residents from each lake is responsible for collecting water quality data throughout the summer and then recording it with the Metropolitan Council to coordinate that data. Also discussions, descriptions and recommendations for each lake is included in the surface water management plan. Wetlands. The Wetland Conservation Act passed in 1992 with the goal of wetland protection, preservation. The Minnesota Board of Water and Soil Resources oversee the regulation of the WCA for the State of Minnesota and their local government units implement the WCA. The City of Chanhassen was appointed as an LGU and acts as the governing agency for wetland activities within the city. The surface water management plan brought further updates, the Second Generation in wetland management classification. The City of Chanhassen continues to be progressive in it's goal of wetland protection, preservation by updating ordinances and I guess I should say adopting new ordinances and regulations. Chanhassen contains the Seminary Fen, which is a wetland that's unique and significant characteristics. It also has a wetland classification rating as outstanding. And that is the picture that you see in the background there. Creek and river corridors. City of Chanhassen lies within 3 watershed districts. The Lower Minnesota River, the Minnehaha Creek and the Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District. The Bluff Creek Watershed District is the largest within the city and that's what is shown on the right. Significant creek and river amenities in Chanhassen. Assumption Creek which is the only native trout stream in Carver County and flows also through the Seminary Fen. Minnesota River, Assumption Creek and the National Wildlife Refuge located in the southern part of Chanhassen. Bluff Creek which is approximately 7 miles in length and has about a 70 foot gradient drop from Lake Minnewashta to the Minnesota River. Protection and management for all of the city's surface water resources. The surface, the Second Generation Surface Water Management Plan discussion, description and recommendations for all surface water bodies within Chanhassen. City code includes language such as , that protects and helps us manage our surface water resources including the shoreland management district, bluff protection, impervious surface restrictions under Article VIII Planned Unit Development district. Erosion control requirements and inspection for construction sites. Post construction, storm water management and new development and re-development and wetland ordinances. Storm water treatment. The NURP ponding or National Urban Runoff Program and then other BMP's or Best Management Practices include rain gardens, city street sweeping program and erosion control measures. And then in the background that's the planting of the Lake Ann rain gardens. And finally education. Annual presentation of the NPDES permit. Articles in the Chanhassen Connection. Information on the city's web site. The Clean Water hotline where residents can call in with issues or questions. Storm drain marking programs. A volunteer program where volunteer groups can coordinate with the city to mark storm drains in certain neighborhoods. And then neighborhood projects and programs. Kate Aanenson: So with that, if you don't have any questions immediately then we'll maybe let parks and rec go and then if you wanted to just kind of circle back to questions, if that's okay Mr. Chair. McDonald: Did you want particular questions on what we. Kate Aanenson: If you'd like to, you can do those now or you can wait. Because you're going to open it up for public hearing too. 13 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 McDonald: Have any particular questions or clarifications? Keefe: I have just a couple general ones that may apply to both. …you've got goals attached to what you're trying to do. You know one of the things that, in regards to the goals is, you know they're pretty broad you know. Maintain a healthy and diverse forest and increase overall tree coverage. Is there, you know in terms of the goal, is there more definition around those and sort of where we want to do that and say we want to get to 15% coverage but is that sort of broad you know, and that kind of applies to both areas. And then related to that is sort of budget stuff you know and how does that kind of, now the really broad question in regards to that so maybe just for a general answer at this point. Sinclair: It's a, at the end of the chapter there are goals and then supporting the goals are policies which are the specific how to get to that goal. So where you see increase tree cover, that's where it says you know as a part of public projects we are going to be increasing boulevard plantings and road improvement projects or we're going to require increased plantings in subdivisions, you know more specific how to get to that goal. You'll find that at the end of the chapter. McDonald: To kind of follow up on what he's brought up. Again, are we looking at new committees or new commissions to do some of this stuff or, because yeah I agree. The policies are very broad. They're great. How do you implement them, and I don't think city staff by itself can do it because I know you guys are not that big but, how are we going to implement all this and achieve it? Especially the water quality and those issues which are big issues for people living around the lakes and everything. How do you intend to implement all this? Aanenson: Mr. Chair, can I answer that? That's a very good question and keeping in mind that the zoning, the comprehensive plan is the vision statement. The bridge for the implementation is the zoning ordinance so as Kristin went through and talked about the storm water management plan, there are specific goals in that as a budget. Part of what you'll be seeing here is a capital improvement plan for some of the implementation of the, but what's going to come out of this, as what we issue with land uses, we have to adopt some other ordinance as Jill had stated with a management plan. There is a capital improvement project put in place for that to develop that management plan, and that's where we give direction about, as she stated, how much tree cover, the types of species, and then from that we'll have to modify our ordinance to meet those goals. So we set those targets up. We want to get the public's comment on those, that these are goals, this is the direction. Is this the vision you want to accomplish and that gives us the direction working with the Environmental Commission and the Planning Commission to develop those tools which would be the zoning ordinance, code enforcement because we will be re-drafting a significant part of the city code to, if we need to modify ordinance for species types or whatever those standards would be. McDonald: Okay, I understand what you're saying but as part of this, this affects people living within the community and I guess the question I'm asking is, how do we expect them to interface to all of this? What are we going to ask of the people of Chanhassen? 14 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Sinclair: Well as far as like the natural resources stewardship plan, I see, I envision that as being much like the development of the Bluff Creek natural. Aanenson: Overlay district. Sinclair: Well, the Bluff Creek. Aanenson: Oh, natural resources plan, yep. Sinclair: Management plan, where you know major stakeholders of that watershed were invited to participate in the development of that plan so that it becomes kind of a wellspring of ideas from the residents and the businesses and the members of this community. So you have to start, it's a broad goal. It's a big job but you know from the ground up people will be invited to participate in the development of that and from there you get more specific policies. Aanenson: No, I was just going to reframe that just a little bit. So you've got the vision. Do we want to have a management plan to protect the resources? Then if that's the collective goal of this community, then we go back to developing the management plan which we set up kind of a sub-group and then from that we need to affect the ordinances, the group. Then we go to that step. If that makes sense. McDonald: Yeah, it makes perfect sense and part of what you're trying to get out of all this is input from the public. Aanenson: Right. McDonald: Part of the buy in of all this and that's why I'm asking the question. What's the cost to the public? Aanenson: Right. McDonald: What are they going to give up? And that may influence what questions they ask. You know are they going to agree or disagree with the direction, or do they think it's just going to magically happen and I guess I don't want to leave people with the impression that it's all up to city staff to make this work. Aanenson: No. And again, some of this is coming out of the community survey that was just completed too that this was a value, natural resource is a high value of our residents and so we wanted, we're out there saying if this is a true statement, then this is where we need to go to protect that resource, and that's develop a management plan. McDonald: Okay. Thank you. Does anyone else up here have any comments or? Aanenson: We'll let the park and rec… McDonald: I guess just a word to the wise, be very careful. 15 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Hoffman: I'm going to try to fix it. There we go. Aanenson: What page do you want to go to? Do you want to go to a map? Hoffman: Yes. You need to go to full size. Aanenson: Well you've got, you're on the city's web site right here so if you want to just help and go to 100% and you can scroll for him, if that's okay. Hoffman: Good evening. My name's Todd Hoffman. I'm serving as the City's Park and Recreation Director and this evening I have with me Glenn Stolar who is our Park and Recreation Commission Chair at the current time. So Chair McDonald, members of the Planning Commission it's my pleasure to introduce to you the 2030 section, parks and open space plan. Give you some introduction and then we'll start talking about some specifics with maps and other things. Chanhassen, our park and recreation system is a source of community identity and pride that greatly contributes to the resident's quality of life. The city has historically and will continue to place a strong emphasis on park and recreation in our community. Park and recreation section of the 2030 comprehensive plan provides an overview and an analysis of the city's existing system, and we'll talk about that. It identifies objectives and policies that will guide park and recreation decision making through the year 2030 as well as identifying key initiatives that will be, that we'll need to complete and enhance the current park system. And talk about the system history because I think it's important to look back at where you've come from and accomplishments that you've made to date when you're planning for the future. Our current park and recreation system is a result of almost 4 years of planning at the city and citizen commitment. In addition to adding park and trails to the system in conjunction with development, the community has supported major initiatives for park improvements throughout the years. I can show you an interesting piece of history… A great piece of history and I'll read it to you. It's from the 1969 Chanhassen Maverick Newspaper. It's an open letter to Chanhassen residents. It says, too many communities have lost forever, the interesting word, potentiality that are yet available to Chanhassen. It is therefore becomes important that some of Chanhassen's natural resources be immediately preserved before this village also settles into the dogma of just another community. This is 1969. Discussing this. This bond issue will provide funds for the realization of our own park system, recreational facilities for families, adults and senior citizens, as well as neighborhood play areas and facilities for swimming, tennis, baseball, picnicking, hiking, skating, hockey, skiing and sliding, and all this for the simple sum of $250,000 in 1969. The referendum passed and the major initiative from this referendum was the acquisition of what we know today as Lake Ann Park. The first part of Lake Ann Park, and then the initiation of a community and neighborhood park system. So that was the first initiative. You can read the names. It's a historical document. This was found in a basement here right in town and brought to our attention so we thought it had some historical significance and we've used it as a presentation material since the time that we've been presented with it. So again it took almost 20 years, in 1988 the voters passed a bond referendum for Phase II of Lake Ann Park. If you remember that was about the same time Eckankar was coming to town and acquiring their large parcel. Lake Ann was essentially doubled with the acquisition of additional section of park at that time. Also it was right here at a meeting during the discussion of the referendum language 16 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 for the '88 referendum when a council member thought about the most recent citizen survey where people said we should set aside funds or allocate funds for the acquisition of parkland in the southern part of Chanhassen. So without a question on a ballot at that time, they were approving the ballot that evening and Councilman Bill Boyt suggested to the other councilmen, council members that we should maybe add a question for should the city of Chanhassen use these bonds for the acquisition of land in southern Chanhassen. The other council people agreed. They had drafted a question that night. They said what should the amount be and they added $300,000 that evening to the ballot. It passed by 4 votes and then some 12 months later we acquired Bandimere Community Park back in 1989 at a cost of $6,500 dollars an acre or a total of $187,000 for a 32 acre parcel. So those types of initiatives when you bring those things up at a council meeting, they pass by 4 votes and the city sets aside 32 acres of land which was later added on by the Lundgren development to the north, are the kind of really watershed moments that if you don't, if they don't happen, if you don't make them happen, your system really doesn't come together. We go further to 1996. Again the same kind of feelings that were happening back in 1969. People felt like we were getting over developed. Run over. Our corn fields were getting chopped down. Replaced with housing and roof tops and asphalt and we worked in this room for 18 months to assemble a committee, citizen committee to put together a referendum. Again the voters passed that bond referendum and that included the acquisition of improvement of the park system. 18 neighborhood parks were improved. The construction of Bandimere Park. So it took again almost 10 years once we had the land set aside to get the park developed. The reconstruction of City Center Park right here on, where City Hall sits. And then preservation of over 40 acres of open space. That was the Fox acquisition in southern Chanhassen. Again land values had creeped up $23,500 per acre. Again at the time a fair price. Today you couldn't touch that property for that kind of value. And then the construction of 7 new miles of community trails. It was really the turning point for our community trail system. So that's some history. Let's take a look at our existing…in our community, the existing parks fall into four classifications. Neighborhood parks, community parks, special use parks and preserves. Community parks, we currently have 5 of those. So we currently have 5 community parks. Bandimere in the south. Right down here. City Center Park which is right adjacent to City Hall. Chan Rec Center. Bluff Creek Elementary, which is a 40 acre site. 20 owned by the city. 20 owned by the school district. And then we also have Lake Ann and Lake Susan Park and those have an emphasis on not only recreation but public lake access. So those are the 5 community parks that we have and they serve a very specific use and, for ballfield and active recreation. Neighborhood park. They're the parks that people most often use. They're right down the street. They're very convenient. You come home after work and you have a chance to go down to the neighborhood park and participate in some activities and make your way home. Currently have 23 neighborhood parks throughout the city. 22 of these are owned and operated by the city. There's an interesting story up in the north end. Cathcart Park. If we go all the way, scroll back down. Thank you. This park right here, Cathcart Park is within the city of Chanhassen but the property is owned by the City of Shorewood. It was given to the City of Shorewood by the church across the street and so it serves both Shorewood residents and Chanhassen residents. They do primarily all of the capital improvements and then we participate in some of the maintenance up at that location. Special use parks. We have Olson Community Garden is the city's sole special use park. It's the garden right here at the corner of Kerber Boulevard and Santa Vera Drive. It's about a half acre in size. It has 10 by 10 garden plots. It was recently expanded and they're all, all of those garden plots are in use right now and we're 17 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 seeking to acquire additional space for community gardens in the future in the western part of our community and the southern part of the community and working with Jill and others. And then park preserves. We currently own over 440 acres of open space protected in 12 park preserves. These areas encompass much of the Bluff Creek corridor, as well as other wetland and wooded areas within our community. And again they're a different class. They're not a neighborhood park or a community park. They're just there for preservation for the future. It's important to note in our community that we're blessed with many other non-city recreational facilities that does enter into how people utilize the natural resources and recreation facilities in our community and I just want to note those. Minnewashta Regional Park. 330 acres right on the shores of Lake Minnewashta. Very nice public facility operated by Carver County. Minnesota Landscape Arboretum is located in our community. They have 1,000 acre facility. 675 of those acres are located in Chanhassen. The Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge. It's all down in the southern half. Once we hit the bluff, the bluff line, then we get into state and federal. This is the Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge. And then this is state land, the Raguet Wildlife Management Area that is managed and opened for public hunting by the DNR. Golf courses, or one piece of DNR land that's up on Lotus Lake on the west side. Or excuse me, the east side of Lotus Lake. Right in here there's an 8 acre DNR parcel. They purchased this really as an outright threat that if the city did not develop a public access on Lotus Lake, that they would develop their own public access on that property and so it was acquired some time ago and it's just been maintained every since. It's open space since the city did go ahead and develop our public access in the south part of the lake. Golf courses. We have 3 privately owned golf courses within the community, and then Camp Tanadoona which is again on Lake Minnewashta, located a large parcel of land. Camp Tanadoona and Campfire is maintaining this as one of their sole properties in the metropolitan area. They have some other areas they really value and this particular piece of property. Moving on we want to talk about trails and sidewalks. The city has put a significant effort in establishing trails and sidewalks over the past 10 years. Just a dollar estimate. We have over $12 million invested in cash currently in our trail system. It resulted in over an 80 mile city wide system that connects neighborhoods to parks, schools, commercial and civic destination and connects to adjacent communities. Eden Prairie and Minnetonka, Shorewood. Unfortunately many of those connections to other cities just kind of drop off. We have made some connections when the other cities are coming our way. Eden Prairie primarily. We have some future connections down to Chaska and then some future connections to Victoria and Shorewood. We're also blessed with regional trails. We have both LRT's. The south LRT that comes from Hopkins down to our southern part of the community. And then the north LRT, or the north section of the, actually the south LRT right up here crosses our northwest border of the community. These trails are accessed by residents throughout Chanhassen and they travel to Hopkins and then some go back around, and they also can go west to Victoria from the north loop on the north LRT. Those are maintained and right-of-way owned by the Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority and then managed primarily by Three Rivers Park District as a summer time amenity. In the winter we have to apply for permits to allow for walking. Traditionally used as a snowmobile trail in the southern half. We have not done that for the past 2 years and now we've applied for walking, snowshoeing, cross country skiing permit. And then from Bluff Creek Drive, if you scroll back down. Three Rivers stops their authorization here and the city of Chanhassen continues the trail into Chaska at this location. Three Rivers wanted to find a trail head. Once they hit Carver County they decided to stop here at Bluff Creek Drive and they have their trail head located at that location. And then also the regional trail, much of 18 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 the 101 regional trail which is on a county system north to south on 101 is in place. Only the southern section and a small little section in the north part from Pleasant View north to Minnetonka is not in place. The commission currently acted to add this section a week ago or so from Pleasant View north to Minnetonka and Eden Prairie, and then the southern half will be worked on as 101 is improved south of Highway 212. And that's a trail of regional significance on our Met Council and regional maps. Briefly to touch on recreation programs, the city offers a wide range of recreation programs for all ages. We operate a senior center. We operate a recreation center and we offer recreation programs and special events for the entire community. Assessing future needs. When I touched on how we do that. Population is one factor. The demand for parks and recreation is closely linked to population. The population standards act as a general guideline for the minimum number of parks per 1,000 people. These standards are one method of assessing needs and are applied to both neighborhood and community parkland. In Chanhassen we use the standard of 5 acres for every 1,000 people for neighborhood parks and 7 acres for every 1,000 people for community parks. When you analyze those numbers it shows that we currently have enough parkland to meet anticipated needs through the year 2010 but by 2020 there'll be a 12 acre shortfall in community park space and by 2030, a 37 acre shortfall in community park space. That's a fairly significant deficit when we get out to 2030 and we start to add additional population. In neighborhood parks we'll only fall 2 acres short in total acreage but we have to make sure that we have those parks located in strategic locations that are a half a mile away from everyone's front door. If you think about our promise to our residents that moved to this community, we're telling them that as a part of our comprehensive plan we'll put a park within a half mile of your front door. Age is also an indicator of what types of recreation facilities are needed. When planning park facilities it's important to keep in mind that neighborhoods and communities go through life cycle changes and that park land must be varied and versatile so the system can adapt in the future as demographic trends do shift. Park service areas, I touched on those for both community and neighborhood parks. If we can switch back to the circle map. That's an interesting map. It's very useful for visualizing what has been going on in our community and park service areas. Yep, that's the one. There we go. The park service areas are shaded in green. You need circles one half mile radius and you go from a center of a park and then you start to widen out the area. Yellow are park deficient areas and these are the areas we want to focus on as development continues to come in. We need to study should we be acquiring future neighborhood parks in those locations? A couple significant parcels that we take a look at, this yellow is primarily the Wolpen Tree Farm and the Erhart property, and the 101 highway is the barrier to servicing that neighborhood by the existing Bandimere Park, and so as we develop the 101 road plan we know that we want to put an underpass there, because we already have the infrastructure and the facility in place. Bandimere. We talked about it earlier for $6,500 an acre. It cost more to develop the land in the park than it did to acquire it. We have the infrastructure in place. The park is there, and these new neighborhoods come in, all we need to do is provide an underpass and they have access to a very beautiful park facility. No need to acquire additional parks and make additional public investments in these areas. In these type of areas. And then as we move west, we'll infill these park deficient areas with additional facilities. We already have land that is in the Arboretum Village right there but it's not developed so when that develops as neighborhood parks, this circle will widen out. So as you can see the community has done a very good job and you've watched a lot of these developments come through for park acquisition, probably mostly 5 to 10 years ago, but we acquired many neighborhood parks to development process. Want to discuss preserves for a second. For a 19 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 moment. They do not have service areas. Preserve areas are located where there are important natural resources that should be protected. One of the main initiatives of the 2020 comp plan was to preserve open space and natural resources. As a result of these efforts we've set aside those 440 acres to date. That is what projected much of the Bluff Creek corridor. These are, there are few important treasured natural areas that remain unprotected. These include the Bluff Creek corridor south of, really south of the new Bluff Creek Boulevard at this time. The west shore of Lake Ann. And then the Seminary Fen property. The west shore of Lake Ann is shown in our comprehensive plan as future park space and that also includes shoreline on Lake Lucy. And then Seminary Fen in the southern half of the community has been a topic of conversation for preservation for many, many years. At this time our position as a city department is to allow the state, the county, to try to come up with some initiatives. We would be a partner to that but we're not going to be the primary agency in that acquisition effort. Just to touch on trends. I just want to throw out some words because these are things that change the way we do business. Active living is the new key phrase. Compressed leisure time. People don't, they do more things in shorter periods of time. Environmental awareness is on the rise. Interest in the arts is on the rise. We have an aging population across our country. Multi-dimensional recreation. People don't want to do more than one thing at a time. Rec programming we touched on. People want quality versus quantity. They want their facilities and their experiences to be of high quality. Trails, we talked about that. And then off leash dog areas, and we'll talk about that on the final map. Community gardens are a hot topic and that's been proven in town. Disc golf and lacrosse. During the last section we talked about goals and policies. I won't read those for the commission tonight but we have a series of goals and policies to really reach what we are proposing in the area of future acquisition and development, parks and recreation. And then, what I would like to talk about is our future park and recreation system initiatives and we have a map for that and we'll talk about, many of these ideas came out of the open houses held at the library and the recreation center. Much of this work is also coming straight out of the park and recreation commission. And if you look at a community it's really an opportunity for just some additional future things to happen and they're important initiatives to balance our system into the future. We'll start in the upper right. I don't know if you can see the pointer. We'll just go clockwise. Planned underpass at Highway 41. This is to access Lake Minnewashta Regional Park. With all these neighborhoods that can access, take trails to Lake Minnewashta Regional Park. A trail connection from Lake Ann Park to Galpin Boulevard, and this will be with future development. If Prince's property is ever developed, that would be the time that we would both acquire these lakeshore properties and then create that trail. Expand Lake Ann Park and complete the Lake Ann trail loop, what I just mentioned. You go around the corner, more senior center expansion is possible. Parking lot expansions. If you've ever been at this location when you've got multiple activities going on in the senior center, the library and city hall, you know that parking is tight. We want to try to expand the parking on our City Center Plaza. And then our senior center is at capacity or at near capacity many times and there might be a future potential expansion of that resource. Railroad overpass to our historic downtown. If you walk today over the overpass of Highway 5, you kind of stop at a dead end and you have to take a sharp left and come down to town. We would like to continue that right up and over the railroad tracks so you can come right into downtown on a much more convenient fashion. Little controversial topic with the bridge that's been discussed in our community for the past 10 or 15 years. But nevertheless an initiative that we're talking about. Rice Marsh Lake trail loop. Just walked this last Thursday. It's I think one of the most exciting initiatives to happen into the future. A trail all the way around the south 20 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 side of Rice Marsh, through Eden Prairie and then Eden Prairie on this side and Chanhassen on this side. A 4 mile trail loop when you get all said and done. We just recently with the 101 gap project completed the trail loop around Lake Susan. We're planning for a trail loop around Lake Ann and halfway around Lake Lucy. You complete the trail loop around Rice Marsh Lake and I don't know of any other city besides Minneapolis that will have a looped trail system around lakes such as Chanhassen will. Explore possible locations for disc golf course. Bandimere Park is one open and then we're also opening up discussions with the Carver County folks about Lake Minnewashta Regional Park. Disc golf is very popular with younger citizens and it gives them another opportunity to get out and recreate with their friends and family. Underpass at Bandimere Park. We talked about that. Expand existing nature preserve. This is the Fox acquisition. We want to expand it to the south and to the north. This is some excess right-of- way from MnDot and the expansion to the south would come as development to the south takes place. Consider possibilities of the future golf course. What's going to happen if the golf course comes in for development in the community and we talk about trying to preserve it as a golf course. Traditionally we've done that on a couple occasions. Right now it's a great recreational resource for our community. If we lose it, what is the impact on our community? Overpass/ underpass for Highway 212. If any of you have taken the southern LRT, you get a little bit of cut in here when you have to come down and back on grade at 101. And unfortunately we lost out on some ISTEA funding back in '97. Hennepin County, Three River Park District had some funding for three projects. Two in Hennepin County and one out here in Carver County when they ran out of money. They left Carver County out of the loop and finished those two in Hennepin County so we're continuing to work with them. We would like to get that improved. It may happen now with the 101, Highway 101 south improvements. Highway 101 regional trail. Possible future corridor expansion to include the Seminary Fen and so again, bringing the fen in. Including it in our trail loop. Completion of the Bluff Creek corridor. This is the preservation that's taken place in the Bluff Creek corridor. For the future, continue to create neighborhood parks. We talked about that earlier. When these areas develop, the 2005 MUSA and the 2010 MUSA, we have to make sure that they're served with neighborhood parks, or park facilities and so we don't leave anybody out of the system. Additional athletic field complex. That's our 37 acres that we're short and so by 2030 we think we're going to be 40 acres short of community park space, primarily for ballfields and we already feel that today and we're feeling that crunch in ballfield space. Trail along Lyman Boulevard. If there's any on street trail or off street trail but along a road corridor it's Lyman Boulevard that we want to complete. Fortunately with the road projects that are coming up along with, combined with the school, this will happen. This connection, so many people drop down Powers and Audubon and Galpin and then they hit this road without a trail and they're not very happy about that. It's not a very pleasant experience when you're out there either trying to get south to Chaska or make a loop back up. Very scary corridor. With this trail, with this road project, that trail will be completed and that's going to be a nice link for us. We talk about the Twin Cities and Western Regional Trails, traveling east to west through Chanhassen. If that railroad is ever abandoned, then it should become a commuter rail or a trail corridor of some sort. There's been a lot of talk about ballfield improvements and that's basically around a town baseball team. People are very romantic about town baseball. It used to be here with the Chanhassen Red Birds and Chaska as their team with the Cubs and so people are talking about, if we build a town baseball team, or the stadium and bleachers, where would that be and Lake Susan is one possibility so people could participate in Friday night games or Saturday or Sunday afternoon games and watching some town baseball in the 21 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 community. Possible rec center expansion. People talk about should we ever expand the recreation center, should we add a pool? Should we put a bubble over some of the athletic fields? If possible grade separated crossing at Trunk Highway 41 and Highway 5. This is going to become a major corridor for travel throughout community. Getting people into the Arboretum. Should there be a grade separated crossing at that location? There's also been some discussion about that in our downtown. Should there be grade separated crossing for not only roads but trails to connect our north and south half of our community. Highway 5 regional trail. This is very important for traveling west to Victoria and beyond and as Highway 5 is upgraded, cities of Victoria and Waconia primarily will be building that trail. It's used now for recreation but for commuter trail. For bicycles and non-vehicular travel to work and other destinations. And then lastly at Minnewashta Park to the Arboretum Trail connection. Two regionally significant facilities. They should be able to connect with some sort of pedestrian trail. So when you think about ideas, what are the future possibilities? That's what they are. It's all covered in the park and open space section. I'll stand for questions, and Chair Stolar will as well. Thank you. McDonald: Thank you for the presentation. Does anyone have any questions? Keefe: Just to throw out one quick one. You know these are all great ideas. How do you get a handle on what to do and when to do it and what sort of process associated with that? Hoffman: There's also a 10 year comprehensive plan or CIP in the document at the end, and so the commission spent a couple hours one night prioritizing that 10 year CIP so they're taking these items and I always like to think of a budget or a CIP as a value system. So what do you value? What of those items that you've identified are most important and they went through that process that night. The primary driver of park and trail development is park dedication fees. That's how we make things happen in our community. Park dedication fees will run out long before these, all these items are acquired. Things like referendums will need, will be necessary if the city wants to realize all those things that are identified in the plan. McDonald: Okay, thank you. Kathleen? Thomas: No. McDonald: Would you just talk to us a little bit about the parks commission and role that they play in all of this. Stolar: Basically we are an advisory commission to the city staff. We work closely together so you know kind of a bad term but officially we're an advisory commission but we are a partnership. Basically we work hand in hand with staff on both identifying what are the opportunities out there through either citizen input at meetings, similar to this, or we do it through some of the surveys and open forums that we've had, especially with the comprehensive plan being one of those and we had pretty near the whole commission out at the one at the library that we all, so then we talked with citizens and just asked what are some of the things of interest th to them. We used to on the 4 of July we would take a booth at the Chamber of Commerce tent th there for the 4 of July celebration and we'd have open surveys there too that we'd take so, part 22 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 of our role is helping staff gather input, both face to face as well as through surveys. And then our official role would be we do recommend to the City Council the CIP. The 5 year and 10 year and then, each individual year we've prioritized the projects and recommend that to City Council and ask them to fun it out of park dedication fees and so those are our primary roles. We've taken an active role in some of the relationships with Carver County. The dog park that's going in to Lake Minnewashta. A few commissioners formed a sub-committee and actually worked with Carver County to help identify that as an opportunity so we want to be active members. Our official role though would be to make recommendations to City Council based on staff's input. McDonald: Okay. That's pretty much all the questions. I want to thank you. It's a very good presentation and everything and I'm sure the citizens really appreciate all the work that the parks commission has done, and especially you Todd. I think it's one of the jewels of Chanhassen. At this point Kate, do we open it up? Aanenson: Sure, you can open it up for public hearing at this time. McDonald: Okay. And what we'll do is talk about all these issues at that point. Okay. Then at this time I'd like to open up the floor to the public and anyone who wishes to come forward to make comment. Ask questions. Point out anything you feel is missing or anything such as that, please do so. Step up to the podium and you know as always, just state your name and address for the record and then address your comments. Tim Erhart: Well I'll keep it interesting. McDonald: Please do. Tim Erhart: I'm Tim Erhart. I live in south Chanhassen. I had a quick question about your projections for needing 37 more acres for local parks I believe it was in south Chanhassen. Was that based on the assumption that Bluff Creek golf course would be fully developed into single family residential and some of the other areas down there, or what did you base the, that projection on Todd? Hoffman: Can we flip to the chart? Sinclair: Yeah, what page was that? Hoffman: Page 67. Based solely on the population. We've got 2010 population or 2030 population of 38,000 people. 15,600 households. Tim Erhart: Okay, so it wasn't based on any specific land development itself? Hoffman: Just population. Tim Erhart: Just general population, okay. 23 Planning Commission Meeting - October 2, 2007 Hoffman: And then you run into 7 acres for every 1,000 people. Tim Erhart: Alright, alright. Thank you. Aanenson: Just to clarify where those numbers of population come from. Approximately 2 years ago we accepted system statements from the Metropolitan County which gave an ultimate build out which is what Todd Hoffman's speaking to and what we believe the population will be in 2030. Also project households, number of households as well as employment figures so we had to agree whether or not we thought those numbers were adequate and that's what the model was built up from these projections that you're seeing is based on that. McDonald: Okay. Does anyone else wish to come up and make comment? Ask questions. Well normally I would get to slam down my gavel but we're not going to be closing the public meeting on this so I don't want to symbolize any of that. It is going to remain open. You know you're free to make comment via emails, letters, phone calls and I'd say anyone out in the public that has anything, all you have to do is call city hall. Just tell them the subject matter and I'm sure that they can direct you to the correct people. I would hope that's been helpful and there will be a series of these as Kate said going forward. Aanenson: Yeah. Mr. Chair, if I could just announce for the next Planning Commission in 2 weeks from tonight, then we'll be discussing the sewer, water and transportation plan so the City Engineer will be with us to talk about the sewer and water, and then Bob will be presenting the transportation plan so if anybody has interest in that, stayed tuned or attend the meeting. McDonald: Interesting topics all. I guess with that, we will have no further business. Except before I do this. Aanenson: Approval of the minutes? APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commission Undestad noted the verbatim and summary minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated September 18, 2007 as presented. Chairman McDonald adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 8:30 p.m. Submitted by Kate Aanenson Community Development Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 24