1993 02 22CHANHASSEN BOARD OF
ADJUSTHENT AND APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 22, 1993
Chairman Johnson called the meeting to order.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Willard Johnson, Carol Watson and Hark Senn
STAFF PRESENT: PauI Krauss, Pianning Director; Sharmin AI-Jaff, PIanner
I; Elliott Knetsch, City Attorney; and Steve Kirchman, Building Inspector
INTERPRETATION OF CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT VALIDITY. CUP #88-11 FOR A
CONTRACTORS YARD. 1700 FLYIN~ CLOUD DRIVE. JEFF C~SON.
A1-Jaff: This site is located north of Flying Cloud Drive, south of
Chicago/Northwest Railroad. This application first appeared in front of
the City Council in September of 1988. The request was for a contractors
yard. The application process went through a conditional use permit and
the City Council did approve the application. Conditions are attached to
your report. One year before the application expired, the applicant
applied for a building permit and it was for the shell of the building
only. Since then, they built a foundation. However, they didn't proceed
with the construction and the ordinance states that if substantial
construction does not take place within 6 months, the application expires.
The applicant is contesting that the conditional use has not expired.
That it should go through a public hearing process before their
application actually expires. And right there we're having, we're not
interpretting the ordinance the same way. In this case the application
comes in front of you and the Board of Adjustments and Appeals will decide
whether the application has expired or not. We are recommending that you
find the application had expired. There are some statements that were
made by the applicant's attorney, Mr. 3elf Carson and they are regarding
the building and the building permit-. With us is Steve Ktrchman, Building
Official. If you have any questions, he will be available to answer them.
And I don't know if Steve would like to make any comments at this time, or
would you rather just answer questions?
Kirchman: I'll just answer questions' if you have any.
Al-Jaff: Okay, thank you.
Johnson: Are you the Attorney?
Jeff Carson: Yes sir.
Johnson: State your name please.
Jeff Carson: My name is Jeff Carson. I represent Mr. Lindbery. Good
evening. I wonder, as part of the paperwork, do you have the documents
that I submitted?
Johnson: Yes.
Jeff Carson: Okay. I'll sort of follow along that line of thinking. As
I indicated, I represent Mr. Lindbery and in fact did so in 1988 when he
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, ~993 - Page 2
was before the City Council, Planning and City Council to apply' for and
receive his conditional use permit. That was issued .in September of 1988
and it was for the operation of a contractor's yard on his approximately
40 acres, as indicated on the overhead. In preparation for this I went to
the Code and the definition of a contractors yard because one of the
points that we are here to make tonight is that Mr. Lindbery has indeed
been operating his property as a contractors yard ever since that date.
And I think that's a paramount issue, at least as I read the staff's view
of things because they're suggesting that so much time elapsed and a
building wasn't built and therefore the conditional use permit lapsed. It
is my interpretation, as I read the definition of contractors yard, which
I've put on my, reprinted on my'material' It doesn't require that there
be a building on a contractors yard. There may be indeed and so I point
that out because Mr. Lindbery has during this entire period of time,
although he has had some difficulty, not all through his own fault or
devices, getting up his building, which I'll discuss later. The idea that
he could operate a contractors yard never changed. He has indeed operated
a contractors yard since he was issued his conditional use permit. He
would like to finish his building. He has footings poured, and as I said,
I'll get into the problems that he ran into in constructing the building
later. Some of the things that I point out, that I'd'ask you to consider
in dealing with this. Obviously zoning has changed in the city since the
conditional use permit was issued and if this were the first blush at this
subject, we could not ask you for a contractors yard in this zone today.
And so that makes the impact of your decision and the decision of the City
Council even more significant frankly because if you concur with the staff
and take away Mr. Lindbery's right to use his property, as he has been
using it, it reverts really to agricultural use and he's not a farmer. I
won't, if you've had a chance to read through these, I won't go through
each and every point that I make but a couple of things I think are
important. I contend that under your code, Mr. Ltndbery has at all times
since the Code changed, operated his contractors yard as a non-conforming
use. And I have a list of exhibits that I've attached and your non-
conforming section, if it does anything, it's an attempt to keep uses that
exist lawfully at the time that a zone changes, in operation. I think
that's an important feature because as you may recall, if you went through
the Minutes of the 1989 planning meeting when'they changed the or took
contractors yards away from the agricultural area. I found it interesting.
One of the gentlemen at the meeting was concerned that there was no
contractors in the audience and pointed that out. He said, there's nobody
here except the staff and the Planning Commission and the staff
technically, correctly said well, we don't have to invite every contractor
to something like this. We've published in the paper that we're going to
do this. But they went on to say that, and people who are operating
already are non-conforming. In other words they're protected. Ne changed
the law but we don't go and erase all the uses that exist. So the
Planning Commission I think was comforted by that and went forward and
changed the law. Ail the while anticipating I believe that it would not
impact already existing uses. A couple of other things. The staff has
been dealing with Mr. Lindbery over the years. And in fact, as I point
out, and I have exhibits attached, they dealt with him on the issuance of
the building permit and two different inspections. Those would be
Exhibits 6, 9 and l0 to this attachment. The point being this. That the
City was dealing actively with Hr. Lindbery on this site as a conditional
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22. 1993 - Page 3
use permit more than 2 years after the issuance of the permit itself. Now
the building wasn't up at that time, and what these exhibits show, Exhibit
6 is the building permit which was referenced by staff. Exhibit 9 is a
report that was made about this project on 10/22/90. And Exhibit 10 is a
copy of the reference page. That is actually the attachment of the
conditional use permit showing at the bottom that on 10/23/90 there was
some research going on and that they were going through the different
areas of the permit itself. The point being that for over 2 years after
the issurance of the permit, the City Nas still dealing with the property
as a conditional use permit. There was no discussion about the building
isn't up and it's been a year. Or the building isn't up and it's been two
years. They were going through the process. Now I also point out that
Mr. Lindbery has expended a great deal of money in this, just on the issue
of the building itself. And'there are exhibits attached to show this. He
has spent over $36,000.00 with the building permit and the purchase of the
building shell. What happened, and what I explained in a little more
detail, is that he got into a dispute with a former building official
who's not employed now, as I understand, over the type of heating the
building was going to have. I've attached, my last attachment is a copy
of the floor heating. He intended to put heating in the floor and then
pour cement, which is a fairly typical and believed to be better method of
heating than what might be more or less traditional at the time. I don't
think it's terribly innovative but the point was that it was certainly an
authorized method of heating by the Uniform Building Code and by the
Chanhassen Building Code. But they got into a dispute over 'it and so
that, he would not permit him to do that. That dispute unfortunately is
not very well documented by from our perspective he would not have gone
ahead and obtained the permit and expended the funds if he was not very
serious about getting the building.and getting it up. As I said, the
footings are out there and so really the building was ready to be placed
on the property. Probably in 1989. I think there's something else that
entered in here that kept Mr. Lindbery personally away from the project of
building the building for about a year and that was an injury. He
received an injury, work related, and crushed his leg and was out of work
for a year. $o you know these periods of time, they seem like great
lengths of time when we talk about a year here and a year there, but when
you think about this process and you think about the time that has gone.
by, and in Minnesota you think about the period of time when you really
don't construct typically, the winter. Not all. that much time has
happened. What really has happened here is this. It was last summer or
spring when part of the use of Mr. Lindbery's property was the storage of
these big commercial units. He would rent them to contractors for taking
to their sites. He was storing them on his property and they could be
seen from the highway, and so it was drawn to staff's attention. They
contacted Mr. Lindbery and communicated with him and he just didn't do
anything for one reason or another. They're huge for one thing. They're
difficult to move.
Watson: What are they?
Jeff Carson: What are they called Harry?
Harry Lindbery: They are storage containers that we rent to electricians
and plumbers. They take them to a job and we set them on the
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 4
ground. They're 10 foot. No, they're 8 foot wide and 8 foot high and 20
feet long. They have swing doors and they put their electrical supplies
or plumbing supplies in there and then they can lock them up. Because if
they take them out to a job site, and the delivery truck would deliver
their supplies and by the time they'd come the next morning, thieves had
run off with them because construction jobs don't have watchmen all night
long.
Jeff Carson: I think that, does that answer your question as to what the
units were?
Watson: Yeah. sure.
Jeff Carson: They were big and heavy and.
Harry Lindbery: They're 20 foot long and 8 foot square.
Jeff Carson: They became the subject of inquiry by the staff and actually
have since become the subject of a criminal complaint, which is pending in
the District Court. Mr. Lindbery believes he has solved the problem with
respect to the placement of those boxes on his property at this point, but
that's what led to the inquiry. That's what led to the question of, now
I'm editorializing a little bit. This guy isn't playing ball with us.
What are we going to do? What can we do to him? Well, let's see. Go
back through his permit and oh gee, you know. -He hasn't got his building
up, otc, etc. Well, before you know it it's alleged and claimed that his
permit is void and he's out of business. And I think that's what
happened. I think reality is that it became a personality thing and it's
unfortunate. It's unfortunate on the one hand that Mr. Ltndbery didn't
respond when he was notified and satisfy the staff. It's unfortunate that
we get into this debate really of what does the permit mean? What does
the law mean? What has happened? Is it a non-conforming use? What
happened in the process? You know there's a lot of things to look at but
I think in reality that's what happened. Otherwise, why would the staff
have gone out 2 years after the issuance of the permit, inspect the
property and make notes and go on with things. It just feels like that's
what happened. It is our hope frankly that we can get this thing back on
track. That Mr. Lindbery can continue to operate the property as a
contractors yard. He would like indeed to put the building up and there's
a good reason to put the building up so that he doesn't have'to store a
lot of the things that he might be storing and has stored on the property
outside. I mean there's a good reason he's putting the building up, and
that was always intended. There's a couple of things I would, I guess I
feel I should comment. In staff's report, which I received today, I
guess I'm sort of following the, my comment. Their comment format that
was written here. A couple of points I think I should make about this. I
said Mr. Lindbery had used his property since receipt of the conditional
use permit as a contractors yard. The response is, if the applicant used
the property as a contractors yard, then he did it without complying with
the conditions of approval of the conditional use permit which was
approved by the City Council. Now frankly, it was an ongoing process. The
property has always been used as a contractors yard so I don't frankly
understand that comment. But I take issue with it. He is in compliance
to the extent that the conditional use permit, that the points in the
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page $
conditional use permit are applicable. Another point. It says although,
I said, although your zoning code has now been amended, Mr. Lindbery's use
has been modified or he's got a non-conforming use. The response was, the
contractors yard never received a certificate of occupancy. Now I didn't
see in the permit itself any requirement that he obtain a certificate of
occupancy. If the code requires him to receive a certificate of
occupancy, he was frankly unaware of it. I'm not aware of the section
that requires that. I'm not suggesting it doesn't but he never knew of
the requirement of a certificate of occupancy. It goes on to say that
staff visited the site on different occasions. I take that to mean that
we don't believe that he's been operatin~ his property as a contractors
yard during this period of time. We've been through staff's, you know the
entire file on this property and although staff has been out to the
property on a few occasions, there hasn't been a great deal of activity by
the city on the property. The last note that we find is October of lggO.
October 23rd of ~990. $o I submit that staff is not in a'position, or
nobody other than Hr. Lindbery is in a position to say with any certainty
whether he operated the property continuously as a contractor's yard. Ny
comment number $ on the staff report, that staff continue to deal with
Mr. Lindbery on the conditional use permit as recent as October,
The response is, no records were found to support this statement. Well I
submit Exhibits 6, ~ and l0 are in the official record. They do note
activity by the City. By the City officials with respect to the property
so I consider that evidence of activity on the property. But it is not
our hope here or our point to take issue with each. I mean you can get
doNn to the real picky issues and the nitty gritty of things and Ne don't
want to do that. Mr. Lindbery wants to continue to operate his property
as a conditional use permit. As a contractors yard. He feels genuinely
that he has the right to continue to do that. He would like to put up the
building that was started some years ago and hasn't been completed yet.
We don't feel that the construction of that building was the, without
Nhich you don't get the conditional use permit. That's what the
conditional use permit says. Obviously it was contemplated as one of the
things that Nas going to happen in the use of the property but look at
what a contractors yard is. You obviously can operate a contractors yard
without a building. It's probably a lot better for the business and. for
the city to have the building in place. I guess that's sum and substance
of our approach. I would hope that you could see your ~ay to recommend to
the City Council that Mr. Lindbery be recognized as an existing use, such
as he is, and that Ne don't have to continue to debate or fight about the
facts. The historic facts of this case. Thank you. I'll answer any
questions if anybody has any.
Johnson: I have a question. Why wasn't the shell put up to begin with?
I guess that's Nhat, I've got a problem Nith that.
Jeff Carson: Well, that gets into the business about the type of heating.
He bought the shell. He owns the shell. He physically owns the shell. It
cost $34,000.00 and some dollars and he purchased it. At the time he was
ready to put the shell on the property, he was going to put the heating
units in the floor and pour cement and the Building Inspector said, no.
You can't do that. They got into a debate. That's Nhat stopped the
project frankly.
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 6
3ohnson: Does the floor have anything to do with the construction of the
building itself? Why couldn't it be put on the foundation?
Jeff Carson: Well the floor had to be poured before the building would be
put.
Johnson: But as I understand, you had the foundation there..
Jeff Carson: No. Not the foundation. Just the footings.
Johnson: Footings. I'll take it back. The footings are there.
Jeff Carson: Well, the plan for the building included a cement floor and
so you wouldn't, what he wanted to do was put the heat units in the floor.
The Building Inspector didn't want the heat units in the floor and.he
couldn't, I suppose that debate should have been brought to the City
frankly.
Watson: $o this debate occurred in
Kirchman:
3elf Carson: '$9. 1989. Because the permit was issued in 1989 and
that's when all this started.
Watson: Do we have records of those discussions about the heating units
and all that?
Kirchman: No we don't.
Watson: So no forms were filled out at that time?
Kirchman: I inspected the footings and heating was never brought up to us
at any time.
Harry Lindbery: It was to your Building Inspector.
Senn: Nell I think we're getting off the point.
Jeff Carson: That was the point. Mr. Lindbery had an idea and he had the
plan for the heating at that time and the inspector, were you the
Inspector sir?
Kirchman: I was the inspector that's noted on the 10/22/90 inspection
report.
Jeff Carson: No, no. But were you the inspector on site dealing with
the heating? Probably not.
..
Kirchman: There's no heating in the building so a heating inspector was
never out.
Jeff Carson: Again, it's not probably worth the debate here.
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1':)93 - Page 7
Watson: No, I was just trying to figure out if we had records indicating
that that was the reason the building didn't go up.
Jeff Carson: I don't think the records would ever reflect just that but
from Mr. Lindbery's point of view, that's what happened.
3ohnson: Did he ever apply for a heating permit? It was required.
3elf Carson: I think, I'm not really that well versed on the permitting
process. I think it was all encompassed in the.
Watson: Original building permit? The original building permit says just
a shell.
Harry Lindbery: Are you familiar with radiant heat?
Johnson: No, I'm not an engineer on radiant heat.
Harry Lindbery: May I show them?
Jeff Carson: Nell they have a copy of that.
3ohnson: We have a copy of that.
Watson: Yeah, it's okay. We're Just trying to get inspections and
permits straight.
Johnson: And I guess another question I have, why wasn't the fencing
process started or finished or whatever? It was indicated it would be
done as a part of the conditional use permit.
Jeff Carson: Fencing of? I expect the only fencing that would have been
done would have been to block.
3ohnson: Yeah, blocking fencing I guess or.
Watson: To screen.
Jeff Carson: Screening. Well you know, the lay of this land is such that
you can screen items, if you will, from view. Is everybody familiar with
the property? You go down and then around and actually there's a berm
that screens quite nicely and as I've said, and it was our, you know in
this big units. Sometimes you build a fence to hide the biggest thin~ and
you've done more harm with the fence itself. It's been our view of that,
that the permit required screening, opaque fence, berming or landscaping
and that that was satisfied by getting the units that were being stored
out of sight essentially. And they really were out-of sight too and are
today. It's Just that they weren't. They were up closer to the road and
that led to the problems.
Senn: Sharmin? Are the outdoor storage areas screened with'opaque
fencing, berming or landscaping?
Al-Jarl: No they're not.
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1_993 - Page $
Senn: Was a proposed screen plan ever filed at the time of the issuance
of the building permit?
A1-3aff: I have not found anything in the file. The only thing that
has...is this one. Right here is the existing building that you see...
driveway. The proposed building would have been here. Parking is right
here. But this is all we have. This is the only thing in the file.
Senn: Okay. So there is no proposed screening plan?
A1-3aff: No.
Watson: Because the original intent was to enclose this, was it not in
this building?
Al-Jaff: Correct.
Senn: Well yes and no, except it takes kind of a giant leap it seems to
me. Did the, well hours I suppose aren't really an issue here right? I
mean the hours of operation aren't an issue under the conditional use
permit?
Al-Jaff: There is a limitation on the hours. It was between 6:00 and
7:00.
Senn: But there hasn't been, there's no problem in relationship to that.
How about light sources? Are all the light sources shielded?
A1-3aff: There isn't a building.
Senn: There are no light sources?
A1-Jaff: No.
Senn: Okay.
Al-Jaff: There isn't in operation that we are aware of taking place.
Senn: Okay. Have they complied with the conditions of MnDot, including
the installation of the right turn lane and left turn lane?
Al-Jarl: No.
Senn: Okay. Is there bituminous driveway, parking areas, and loading
areas?
A1-Jaff: No.
Senn: Is there compliance with the conditions of the resource engineering
has written? I don't have that memo of August 9th so I don't know exactly
what it says but.
Harry Lindbery: That would be septic systems.
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 9
Senn: That would be septic systems? Okay. Is there protection of the
two septic system sites during construction? Nell, they never constructed
so that's a non-issue. Has there been installation of a holding tank?
3elf Carson:
itself.
think that would come at the same time as the building
Senn: Okay. Is there a handicap parking space on the site?
A1-3aff: No.
Senn: Okay. Building must be sprinklered. Well, that's a non-issue if
the building hasn't been built. Contractors yards, okay zoning ordinance.
Okay. Comply with all conditions and natural resources and watershed
district permits. Did they ever get those permits?
Al-Jarl: There is a permit?
3elf Carson: Yes, we did.
Senn: Have they been complied with?
Al-Jarl: Nell there isn't a building.
Senn: No, I understand that.
Krauss: So no, they did not.
Senn: No, okay. Have all the existing buildings been trucked off site
and disposed of? Okay. Erosion control plan shall be revised to include
check dams. lOC foot intervals on all proposed drainage. Has that been
done? Has the erosion control plan been revised? Okay. Bear with me a
minute because, the plan shall be revised to include erosion control
measures. Okay, so that's no. Outlet subdivision of vehicle. Submission
of a vehicle inventory list?
Al-Jarl: That hasn't...
Senn: No heavy equipment and machines will be operated between 6:00 p.m.
and 7:00 a.m.. I assume that hasn't been a problem. No shipping
activities will originate, so that seems like a non-issue. When I was
looking at this tonight I really got confused because I don't honestly
know who wrote this in 1989 but it's probably one of the poorest written
conditional use permits I've ever seen. %4by, I mean there's mo reference,
it seems like we screwed up. I mean there's no reference in the
conditional use permit about a building and the building be completed
which is pretty well standard form these days. At least when we do a
conditional use permit.
Krauss: Except that there is reference to a building in the conditions
and you don't...
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 199S - Page lO
Senn: When you look through all of this and shake it ali out, what we're
here is not really for an ordinance interpretation question. What we're
here is we're here to revoke a conditional use permit which has been in
violation for quite some time and the conditional use permit, is very
specific on that. I mean it says, this shall be done and if ! go down
thie list, almost non~ of it's been done. Why aren't we simply revoking
the conditional use permit?
Krauss: Well that's been the subject of a lot of discussion and maybe the
City Attorney can explain why it's here and what will happen next.
Elliott Knetsch: The reason it's proceeding in this manner is because I
think we've got a site plan that calls for the construction of the
building and the building is a part of the conditional use permit. We
wouldn't have granted him a permit without the building. While the permit
probably should have said that, with the site plan that Sharmin just had
on the board, I think it's clear that the building's part of it. ~nd even
if you look at the last date submitted by the applicant, which is October
of 1990 as having staff working on this as a valid permit, it's still been
over a year since any activity whatsoever has taken place on that property
in terms of completion of the building. So what happened here is not
unusual. One day before the one year period was up, he got a building
permit. Staff worked with that building permit for approximately a year.
Then it went dead. So the building lapsed for a 'period of greater than a
year. Secondly is the issue of use. ~nd z would agree with the
applicant's attorney that simply not completing a building does not mean
he wasn't conducting contractor yard activities out there, i do agree
with that statement. Based on our ordinance definition of contractor
yard, if he was using it as a contractors yard, even though the building
was not completed, that would be valid use and the use would not .have
lapsed so that the permit lapsed.- However again, I think we'd find, if we
asked Sharmin and we asked Steve Kirchman, if staff has been out to that
site since October of 1990, and whether any contractors yard activity has
been taking place, I think their answer would be no. Nothing's been going
on. Steve Kirchman was out there because he had wanted to check and
insure that there was an active building permit. Things stopped. That
permit went dead and so he went out there periodically to check to insure
that building was not taking place without a valid building permit. So 'he
was out there a couple of times and he has some logs that back up the
dates he was there. It's also my understanding that Sharmin and perhaps
other Planning staff have looked at that site and have gone there for the
purpose of looking at that site, as ~ell as viewing it as they go around
the city looking at other sites, and there has been no activity going on
since that time. So staff has taken the position that based on our
existing ordinances, the permit lapsed for non-use.
Senn: I understand that all. I've read all that before you just repeated
it, but the Question still remains. Why are we not revoking the
conditional use permit on the basis that they're in vioiation of their
conditional use permit?
Elliott Knetsch: There's nothing to revoke. The permit is gone already.
Senn: So that's your position?
Board of Adjustment and ~ppeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 11
Elliott Knetsch: That's my position.
Senn: $o you're saying there's no need to revoke something that doesn't
exist?
Elliott Knetsch: Right.
Senn: Okay. Why doesn't it reference in the conditional use permit or
Exhibit A the site plan you referenced, like it normally would in a
conditional use permit?
Elliott Knetsch: I can't answer that. I didn't write the permit.
Krauss: It pre-dates all of us Councilman Senn.
Senn: Paul, I guess I'm real uncomfortable taking an action based on all
this supposition whereas to me it seems like there's a very clear action
here. I mean to me the very clear action is that you revoke the
conditional use permit. That it seems nobody is debating he's in
violation.
Jeff Carson: Well, we would take issue with that.
Senn: Would you answer these questions for me again then and dispute any
ones that he answered incorrectly?
Jeff Carson: The only thing I can say Councilmember Senn is this. The
things that you pointed to, all of the construction and the parking and
the bituminous and the lane and all that.
Senn: Bituminous has nothing to do with the building being built.
Jeff Carson: No. That was all going to happen at the time that the
building was put up.
Senn: But that's not what the conditional use permit says. Your
conditional use permit says, okay. The permit is issued subject to the
following conditions. See attached Exhibit A. Termination of permit.
The City may revoke the permit following a public hearing under the
following circumstances. Material change of condition of the neighborhood
where the use is located violation of the terms of the permit. None of
the conditions of the permit have been met...
Jeff Carson: The City hasn't revoked the permit. The City has taken the
position that it doesn't exist. I'm taking the position that this
property has been operated as a contractors yard from the onset. The fact
is is that the applicant Tan into a loggerhead over .the construction of
the building. Nobody in their 'tight mind would pay $34,000.00 for a
shell if he didn't intend to put that shell on the property.
Watson: That dispute occurred in 1989. This is 1993. I can't believe
that something could not have been worked out or-dealt with in the
preceding close to four years.
Board of AdJustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page I2
Jeff Carson: Well you would hope so but keep in mind we've been under
criminal penalty or prosecution since.
Watson: '92.
Je~{ Carson: Yeah, for a year. So I mean that's what I meant when I
said periods of time.
Watson: Then we have 3 years.
Jeff Carson: Periods of time come and go here and they seem like long,
incredibly long periods of time. You can understand them if you take them
one date to the next date to the next date. I'm not saying that this is
the ideal by any stretch.
3ohnson: Steve, could I ask you a question? Did at any time they come in
for a heating permit?
Kirchman: No. On my inspection of 10/22/90, I asked that they submit a
floor plan, plumbing plan, HVAC plan and sprinkler plan so that they could
continue with the heating and do as they wish and also asked that they set
up a meeting with the Planning and Building Department to clear up these
misunderstandings and we never heard from them again.
Krauss: Mr. Chairman, the reason why it's brought to you here tonight is
for an interpretation of the Code which is in your area. The Code states
that if substantial construction has not taken place within one year of
the date in which the CUP was granted, the permit is void. We've
determined that the permit is void. The applicant's contesting our
determination. I mean what it boils down to is, who's position do you
agree with.
3ohnson: I understand what you're saying.
Jeff Carson: And you can readily understand why the parties are taking
the different positions but look at that section of the Code-contemplates
that you have to have a building in order to have the permit. In other
words it says, construction isn't within a year .you're out. To operate a
contractors yard you don't need a building.
Krauss: That's not true. I mean this was approved with a set of
conditions. The applicant's attorney seems to be arguir~g that conditions
are irrelevant as long as you manage to squeak something on the pr-opert¥
and go do it anyway. This is a package of conditions. It's typical of
the package of conditions that we adopt with every CUP that we approve.
You expect compliance with all the conditions.
Senn: And the Code says.
Krauss: If substantial construction has not taken place within one year
of the date in which the CUP was granted, the permit is void.
Senn: Okay, so let's get off the issue of the building which may be
fairly vague. Okay. Has any of the other construction, other than the
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 13
building, occurred on the site?
Krauss: No.
Jeff Carson: But the point is Councilman, you wouldn't do any of the
other construction until the building is in place. That's the timing of
it all. You wouldn't do that. You'd do it immediately after the building
is in.
Senn: So now you're saying the building is part of it. I thought I heard
you a little bit ago saying the building wasn't part of it.
3elf Carson: I'm saying the building doesn't have to be according to the
literal terms of this permit. But we want the building.
Senn: Well but see you're talking, excuse me out of both sides of your
mouth. You're telling me the building doesn't count. Then the building
counts. You're telling me none of the other conditions count' unless the
building built.
Jeff Carson: I'm saying that that's what was contemplated.
Senn: That's not what the permit says.
3elf Carson: No. But logically.
Seen: Okay. Alright. But you are in agreement that's not what the
permit says?
Jeff Carson: No. We're reading the permit the same way and frankly it
could be clearer.
3ohnson: I feel is there was a dispute over the heating, I would have
asked, went to City Hall and asked to have gone on the agenda to talk to
the Council and iron it out if I disagreed with the Building Inspector.
I'm not taking the Building Inspector's side but I've been down here
jumping on.
Jeff Carson: I' might have done the same thing sir. You know, and
especially in hindsight I'm sure Mr. Lindbery'would do the same thing as
well. I mean if I knew he was going to be told at some later date his
contractors yard was void, I can assure you that's what he would have
done. Why somebody does something or doesn't do something at a particular
point in time.
Johnson: As I understand, it's one year as I look been involved in this,
there's nothing done substantial in a year and I realize the building
didn't have to be completed. There was very little activity done and the
city did let you slide for a couple of years. I'm assuming that's why
they let them slide. Hope there would be some activity without putting
some pressure on you people and all of a sudden, nothing's been done.
3elf Carson: Well to back off the literal reading of this and that for a
moment, I would say this. I would hope that if at a point in time the
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, '1<)93 - Page 14
City staff or a city was going to teI1 somebody who's operating 40 acres
of land as a contractors yard, that unless you compIete or unless you do
something within 6 months or 30 days, or whatever it is. We're telling
you. We're going to shut you down or we're going to void your permit. I
would expect that. Maybe it's that the government has to be a little more
on it's toes. I don't know. 8ut it seems unfair to 'come after the fact
and say, I guess it's over. You don't have a chance to follow through.
You don't have a chance to put that $34,000.00 shell that you bought on
the property.
Watson: But it's been years. I mean it's real hard to understand why
nothing has occurred. I mean a dispute over heating in 1989 causing the
fact that there's still no construction by .1992, I'm sorry. I mean any
reasonable person.
Senn: It's inmaterial. It's not even an issue in the permit.
Watson: Well yeah. And there was obviously the intent to build a
building which didn't get built. They did after all buy a building
permit.
3elf Carson: Yeah.
Watson: Which tells me there was intent to build a building in 1989 which
is not there.
Jeff Carson: I can't try to convince you that you're wrong in your
reading of that or that the time that has passed has passed. It did. But
I'm saying that it's, what you're doing if you take the'pro-offered action
or inaction and just conclude that it's void, is you're taking a piece of
property that has one value and one use and reducing it rather
substantially to virtually nothing..
Watson: What you want from us is to say that the conditional use permit
has expired?
Al-Jarl: Correct.
Watson: That's basically the action that you are recommending?
Krauss: Well I guess the action is basically to agree or disagree with
staff's interpretation of that section of the Code.
Watson: How would that be stated? I mean it says here, find the
conditional use permit has expired. If you want us to have interpretted
the Code, exactly how would that be put into a motion?
Al-Jarl: That same conditional use permit is void.
Elliott Knetsch: I think you can just have a motion that you concur, with
staff's interpretation of the ordinance as applied to this situation.
Senn: If we void the conditional use permit, does he have the option of
applying for another one?
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 15
A1-Jaff: Contractors yards are not a permitted use in the A2 districts
any longer. It was switched from conditional use to interim use, I
believe it was in 1990 and then contractors yards were deleted from the
ordinance.
Senn: But he could rezone the property.
A1-Jaff: To?
Senn:
Krauss:
the.
Something that would allow it.
No, not really. There's very, well I suppose you can go down to
Watson: Did you see the property Mark?
Senn: Yeah.
Krauss: We do have a business fringe district.
Watson: That includes Gedney and that storage.
Krauss: No, Gedney is actually industrial but Gedney is on sewer and
water coming out of Chaska. The only other non-agricultural, non single
family uses down there are in the business fringe dist~'ict. The Plannin~
Commission has been very relunctant to see any more land zoned BF.
Senn: No, I understand. I'm just asking 'if it's an option that the
applicant has.
Krauss: Yeah, there is a possibility that that yes. That is an option.
Senn: And the use would be allowable under some form of rezoning,
i ndustr ial or.
Krauss: Well it does allow things like cold storage buildings. I'm not
sure that it allows the contractors yard.
Al-Jaff: It won't allow contractors yard.
Senn: I've already heard that because contractors yards are abolished but
what he's doing doesn't necessarily have to be called a contractors yard.
Jeff Carson: Could I make just one further point?
Krauss: What he's done to date has not been a contractors yard.
Senn: I understand that but that's why I'm trying not to get into those
kinds of semantics. But he can change the use of his property?
Watson: He's free to apply to do whatever he wishes.
Jeff Carson: Could Z make a point, one further Point please? Ny Exhibit
11 is a copy of the April 8, 1989 point in time when the Planning
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page 16
Commission was considering the start of the abolishment of contractors
yards in the agricultural zone. And I submit this, or I put the question
back to the city. If at that time they had invited those existing
contractors yards or those people with existing contractors yards in to
advise them what was happening. ! mean it's fine to say well we
published. We met the technical, literal requirements of the law but the
reality is that in all likelihood no contractor operating a contractors
yard read that. $o what happened here is that the gentlemen said, there's
nobody here. We're taking action to remove contractors yards from
agricultural zones and nobody's here. Why is that? Has anybody been
notified? The answer was no. Well why not? Well, they're going to be
grandfathered. So that took care of it. The problem is for someone in
Hr. Lindbery's situation, had that been brought up at the time or had it
ever been brought to his attention that unless you get this thing
completed to our satisfaction, within a certain period of time, it's over.
In effect it Just happened and he didn't kno~ it. That's really ~hat
happened. According to the interpretation that staff has. And !
understand how that happens but it doesn't seem to, you kno~ it kind of
doesn't pass the fairness test if he really, didn't know. If-he had been
invited to that '89 meeting, or that period of time in the City's history
where you were going to take them away, and he said what about me? Or you
know, at that point he's going to say what about my o~eration or am I
grandfathered or what about it? He's either going to. learn he's going to
do this or else, or that he is. One of the two. And that's at least in
part an answer to the real world. Answer to your question of how much
time, all this time had passed. Could have been remedied pretty easily
right here. I don't know how many contractors yards there are in
Chanhassen. Can't be that many. There can't be that many. I mean if
you're going to take those zones and deal with them, you must have a file
where all those contractors are listed. Just tell them that you're
dealing with the zoning that effects the location of contractors yards and
I don't think we'd have had this problem. And I guess I'd ask you to
perhaps not be quite so technical with the applicant. Say look, get your
application in. Get it done within a specified period of time or else.
Watson: But we.
Senn: Already been done.
Jeff Carson: No.
Watson: That's been done. I mean .everything has a date.
Senn: Can I make a motion?
Johnson: First I need a motiop to close the public hearing.
Senn: I move to close the public hearing.
Watson: Second.
Senn moved, Watson seconded to clo~e the public hearing. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed.
Board of Adjustment and Appeals
February 22, ;[993 - Page 17
Johnson: Okay, now go ahead with a motion.
Senn: I'll make a motion that we void CUP f~88-11 on the basis that no
construction has been started on the site to date and that the a~plicant
is in violation of a majority of the conditions set out ur, der the
conditional use permit.
Watson: That will do it?
Senn: That's the motion.
Elliott Knetsch: If that's your motion.
Watson: Will that take care of what it is we're here to do?
Elliott Knetsch: Well it's published as a public hearing interpretting
the zoning ordinance.
Watson: That's kind of why I asked you how do you want us to say this?
I'd be more than happy to second that motion if it takes care'of the
issue.
Elliott Knetsch: I think Mr. Senn heard my, what my proposed motion was
and he's made a different motion so, that's the motion that's on the
~: 1 ocr.
3ohnson: Do you want to rescind your m~tion?
Senn: No I don't. I'm comfortable with that motion. I'm not comfortable
with the other one.
Watson: I want a motion that takes care of what we need or we're ~oing to
be back here doing it again. Or the City Council's going to deal with it
and we prefer to take care of our own business.
3ohnson: It will die for lack of a second. Do you want to make?
Watson: Yeah, I want you know, I want what we need in order to put this
issue to rest once and for all. Would you state that again please?
Elliott Knetsch: Well, I would suggest that the motion would be that the
Board of Adjustment and ~%ppeals concurs with the staff's interpretation of
the Zoning Ordinance as it relates to this application.
Watson: I'm happy. I so move.
Johnson: I second. Any more discussion?
Watson moved, Johnson seconded that the Board of ~djustment and ~als
concurs with the staff's interpretation of the Zoning Ordinance as It
relates to the .Conditional Use Permit validity of CUP #88-1! for a
contractors yard at 1700 Flying Cloud Drive. Watson and Johnson moved
favor, Senn opposed. The motion carried with a vote of 2 to !.
Board of AdJustment and Appeals
February 22, 1993 - Page lB
Jeff Carson:' Sharmin, will there be Ninutes of this?
A1-3aff: Yes there will be.
Seff Carson: Printed?
Watson: We've got Minutes.
3elf Carson: Printed Minutes of this action?
Watson: We've got them right here.
Self Carson: No, of this action.
A1-3aff: Correct, there will be.
Krauss: Now this is also scheduled on the City Council agenda.
3elf CaFson: Thank you.
Al-Jarl: For tonight.
Krauss: Following on the assumption that there would have been appeal. In
this case there's not a unanimous decision at any rate.
APPROVAL QF MINUTES:
watson moved, 3ohnson seconded to approve th~ Hinutes of the Board of
Adjustment and Appeals meeting dated 3anuary 25, 19~3 as presented. All
voted in favor, except Councilman Senn.who abstained, and the motion
carried.
Watson moved, Senn seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and
the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 7=30 p.m.
Submitted by Paul Krauss
Planning Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim