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PC Minutes 11-20-07 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 McDonald: Of the detached structure which exceeds 1,000 square feet. Larson: Which exceed 1,000 square feet. Okay. With that a second, okay. McDonald: Now, does anyone else wish to make a recommendation? Does anyone wish to push forward the city's recommendation? Staffs recommendation. Okay, then we will vote on Debbie's recommendation. Larson moved, U ndestad seconded that the Planning Commission approve Planning Case 07-28 for a 177 square foot variance from the maximum 1,000 square foot detached accessory structure for an addition to a detached garage on Lot 2, Block 3, Pioneer Hills Addition, based on the amended findings of fact stating there are pre-existing standards in the neighborhood of detached structures which exceed 1,000 square feet. All voted in favor, except Keefe who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of 5 to 1. McDonald: Okay, so it passes 5-1. Okay, and I take it that this will probably go up before City Council. Aanenson: No it won't unless somebody appeals it. Generous: Unless it's appealed within 4 days. McDonald: Okay. If you guys want to appeal. So the motion is approved. The variance is granted. John Hart: Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING: ROSEMOUNT: REQUEST FOR INTERIM USE PERMIT TO ALLOW A TEMPORARY ANTENNA ON TOP OF A BUILDING LOCATED AT 8200 MARKET BOULEVARD. APPLICANT: ROSEMOUNT. INC.. PLANNING CASE 07-25. Angie Auseth presented the staff report on this item. McDonald: Kathleen? Thomas: I don't have any questions, thanks. Keefe: What happens at the end of 6 months... Do they apply for another... Auseth: They can formally request to expand. Keefe: Expand it, or require them to take it down or how does that. 8 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 Aanenson: That's correct. It has a termination date and then if they can request an extension, of you can deny the extension and they'd have to take it down. Keefe: So in either case, if they. .. Aanenson: Correct. Correct. McDonald: Kevin. Dillon: You know the only question I had is answered by the letter from the distinguished technologist. McDonald: Okay. Debbie? Larson: I think it's covered everything. McDonald: Mark? Undestad: No. Good. McDonald: Okay. I have just one question. I'm not sure if you answered it or not. I don't think I saw it in the report. After what we went through with the cell phone tower, has anybody looked to see if there are any federal requirements that are going to have to be gone through in this? Auseth: We have done that. We've contacted the Minnesota State Historical Society. At this point there aren't any historical impacts. McDonald: Not so much historical. Do we get in with like the FCC or anybody else that governs transmissions within the air? Auseth: That was addressed with the email that was passed around and the applicant can answer more to that. McDonald: I apologize for not reading my emails.Thankyou.Ihavenofurtherquestions.Is there an applicant here to present the case before us? Kelly Orth: Hello. My name is Kelly Orth. I work for Rosemount, Incorporated. I'm the one that fills out the application and setting up this test network. This is a product line that we've developed and we're trying to create a wireless sensor network. The sensors are a variety of sensors. Pressure, temperature, level or slow, and the idea with the wireless network is that they can form a mesh network so that all these battery powered sensors, if they can't communicate to a base station in a typical system, a point to point system, or base station off to each device. So if they can't communicate to the base station, they can communicate to their neighbors. Form a mesh network and the messages can hop from unit to unit to get back to where it needs to do. So we've introduced these products and the systems in the marketplace and they have limited range 9 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 right now. 300 to 500 feet so what we're in the process of adding some higher beam antennas and elevating the antennas at the 25 foot point, as we mentioned, just to extend their range. Possible applications are in oil and gas exploration where wells are located around on different sites. City wide water and waste systems as Chanhassen might have where you might want to monitor your pumping stations and your lift stations. And by using wireless systems like this, the costs are much lower because there's no electrical hook-up. There's no internet hook-up. It's all done wireless. So we're in the process of doing the testing, as Angie mentioned. She's been very helpful in formulating the proposal and by the way I'd like to take time to thank the City of Chanhassen and the various people within the city for allowing us to allow some of the city's facilities. Specifically Todd Hoffman, the city Park and Rec Director and most recently Paul Oehme, the Public Works so we can spread out. Obviously we don't own property within a mile radius of our plant. We have to rely on our good neighbors to allow us to use their facilities. And we intend, we intended all along just to make this temporary. It's not meant to be a permanent system. It's just for test purposes. Whenever you tell us to take it down, you know we'll take it down. It's not a big deal. We've done some preliminary testing with the 72 hour clause so we put our antenna on the roof up for 72 hours and take it down later and then come up with a different scheme to figure out how this stuff really works because it's kind of black magic and test some more. So we're learning but what we really want to do is put it up and get some long term reliability capability of the test network. We were up last night during the fog and we learned that it works just fine in .1 mile visibility so that's the kind of thing that we want to be up for right now. Change of season. Different weather conditions and different circumstances so again, it's just a temporary facility. We have no intention in making it permanent. McDonald: Okay, questions? Mark? Undestad: Yeah, just a couple. On the frequency's you're using on there are the same used in like WiFi, things like that? Kelly Orth: Yeah. Undestad: What kind of range is your antenna going to have on there? Kelly Orth: The frequency we use is a 2.4 gigahertz band which is a public set aside band for WiFi and Blue Tube and these Zigby networks. Maybe you've heard of Zigby and so we use the same radios as Zigby radio network would use. They're regulated by the FCC. It has to meet all the pretty significant requirements. All the power transmission level requirements. But the nice thing about the ISM band, the 2.4 gigahertz band, that it does not require a site license. If you have the license, every particular site, everybody that has a WiFi internet system in their home would have to get an FCC license and it would make it pretty hard to do. Undestad: Is there any chance of any interferences with neighbors or WiFi? Kelly Orth: The extent of co-existent testing and interference testing, we use a different radio technology even though it's in the same frequency band. It actually does frequency hopping so it shifts around and uses different parts of the band at different times. 10 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 Undestad: So you don't program in your frequency and it picks up or interferes with. Kelly Orth: No, we've tested it where a WiFi internet system and our Zigby type radio network system are within you know half a meter apart and there's no interference. Undestad: And the antenna you had out in the yard out there for a while, what was that one? That was just another test deal out there? Kelly Orth: I've got some samples if! could. McDonald: Okay, yes. Kelly Orth: This is our normal unit with an integral antenna and this is a temperature transmitter that will help to do the display and cover goes on this side. The battery goes in this side, so it's all battery powered. It doesn't hook up to electricity or anything and this is a high V antenna for the V antenna. And what we're going with our wireless testing, this is putting a remote connection on the device and then we're using a high beam remote antenna with a coax cable between them and as you know on radio waves, if you get it up in the air you get better reception. So basically this is what we're trying to test in conjunction. With our standard units sprinkled around to form these devices... So the application is to be able to put one of these antennas on a 25 foot pole. 25 foot to the tip as Angie had pointed out, and we would leave it up. So I think we promised to get it down by Memorial Day so that we get all this stuff out before the school's out. Undestad: And this is going to go on the south side of your building somewhere? Kelly Orth: Yeah. It goes up on the roof because it's higher there. You know we're kind oflow over by the lake there so to get up over the other buildings around us and some of the neighboring elevations. Undestad: How big is your building there again? Kelly Orth: Well we own about 54 acres. The building, we're putting it on the two story office building. I don't even know how big that is. Aanenson: That alone is 60,000 so. Undestad: So your 20 foot antenna is going to be just back there somewhere? Kelly Orth: Yeah. It's kind of hard to see unless you really know where to look for it. Larson: So the intention is really just to have this on your property and nowhere else? Kelly Orth: No. These units are already installed in some of the parks. If you noticed there's one of these units right on City Center Park Field 1. 11 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 Larson: I'm getting that Big Brother feel. Kelly Orth: No, no. It's just, they talk in 4 millisecond bursts and they send a little data packet over the air to the other device. It's just a little data packet which tells what the name of the unit is to test that... Larson: It's... data you're collecting. I'm looking for these units all over the place. Kelly Orth: Just how reliable... How many data packets are sent and how many are received so we're just testing the wireless capability. So we can monitor over the air, we can monitor the path stability of each point. The ones right here talks to the roof top unit when we put our antenna up. Larson: What's the major purpose of the whole idea... Kelly Orth: When you mesh networks in these sensors? Larson: Yeah. Kelly Orth: Just to lower the install cost to be able to monitor pumps and motors and valves and be able to do data acquisition of these extensive infrastructure systems. You know there's a lot of money invested in all this equipment and if it starts to break down, bad stuff can happen. Larson: So are you talking this with this company or are you talking city wide? I mean like, just to pull some weird, obscure example out. We read meters on houses for gas. Kelly Orth: Yeah, there could be devices. We don't make meter reader, gas meter readers but Zigby type devices are out there that you can put in a mesh network and read meters once a month. Larson: ... basically that's all I have. McDonald: Kevin, any questions? Dillon: No questions. Kelly Orth: I want to thank you for your time and I hope you approve and I really want to thank the City of Chanhassen. McDonald: Before you go, just a second. Kathleen, you have any questions? Thomas: I don't have any questions. I actually find it very interesting... thank you. McDonald: The City is recommending only a 6 month window. Is that going to work? 12 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 Kelly Orth: Yeah, that will work fine. Yeah. I wanted to be out there in the change of seasons and we've been able to gather enough data now with our 72 hour windows here and there that we feel that this is a viable way to do it and over the course of a few months here we want to gather a lot of reliability that the devices are going to stay online no matter what because reliability is paramount in our industry. McDonald: Okay. I have no further questions then. Thank you for addressing us. At this point I will you know throw the meeting open to the public. Anyone wishing to make comment, please come up to the podium and address the commissioners. Seeing no one come forward, we'll close the public meeting and we'll bring it back up before the commission for comments and Kathleen. Thomas: I don't have any issue at all. I think it's a great idea and it's a very good thing so I'm for it. Keefe: No issues. McDonald: Kevin. Dillon: No issues. McDonald: Kathleen. Larson: Me? McDonald: Debbie. Kathleen's down there. Debbie. Larson: She was here last time. McDonald: That's why you keep changing people on me and I'm sure they're doing that on purpose. Larson: Yeah... McDonald: I have no problems either. At that point we'll open it up to the commissioners for someone to put a recommendation forward. Keefe: I'll make a motion the Planning Commission recommends approval of Planning Case 07- 25 for an Interim Use Permit to install a 25 foot mast antenna on top of a two story office building in Rosemount located on Lot 1, Block 1, Chanhassen Lake Susan Park 2nd Addition as shown on plans dated received November 2,2007, based on the Findings of Fact in the staff report and subject to conditions 1 through 3. McDonald: Can I have a second? Dillon: Second. 13 Planning Commission Meeting - November 20,2007 Keefe moved, Dillon seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of Planning Case 07-25 for an Interim Use Permit to install a 25 foot mast/antenna atop the two story office building at Rosemount, Inc., located on Lot 1, Block 1, Chanhassen Lakes Business Park 2nd Addition, as shown in plans dated received November 2,2007, based on the Findings of Fact in the staff report and subject to the following conditions: 1. A building permit must be approved prior to installation of the mast/antenna. 2. The interim use permit is valid for a period of six (6) months from the date of building permit approval. Should the interim use permit need to be extended, the applicant will need to request a formal extension 60 days prior to the expiration date of the permit. 3. Approval of this application is contingent upon City Council approval of the zoning ordinance amendment to Section 20-1515, Antennas mounted on roofs, walls, and existing towers requiring an Interim Use Permit (lUP) for antennas in excess of 15 feet in height. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to o. PUBLIC HEARING: ORDINANCE AMENDMENT: CHAPTER 20. ZONING. Angie Auseth presented the staff report on this item. McDonald: Kathleen, questions for staff. Thomas: I don't think I have any at this moment. Keefe: Quick question just in regards to you know your second point it just says, you know must be constructed of material or color which matches the exterior of the building or structure. Is that recommended as opposed to say the natural sky color or surrounding landscape or something along those lines? Auseth: Yes, and that's currently in the city code. So that it blends in with the site and isn't an eyesore. Keefe: I almost prefer that language than what's in here. That it sort of blends in with the surroundings versus sort of matches the exterior color of the building because perhaps it's up against a bunch of pine trees and it's just painted green. McDonald: Kevin. Dillon: So we talk about the height. Is there anything in here that addresses the diameter of the antenna or the guide wires or anything like that that need to hold it in place? I mean is that, should that be included? Do we care? 14