CC Minutes 3-10-08
City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
CROSSROADS OF CHANHASSEN, LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF
TH 101 AND LYMAN BOULEVARD, APPLICANT, KRAUS ANDERSON REALTY
CORP: REQUEST FOR PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT;
VARIANCES; PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SUBDIVIDE 14.90 ACRES INTO 5 LOTS
AND 1 OUTLOT; AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF 8
BUILDINGS.
Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. This item too also appeared
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before the Planning Commission on their February 19 meeting. Planning Commission did
recommend 7-0 to approve the request. This is a complex application.
Mayor Furlong: We’ll take our time.
Kate Aanenson: Just the fact that there’s a site plan amendment to a PUD. We’re approving a
lot of buildings. A variance. PUD amendments and of course the subdivision application so I’m
going to try to break it down into bite size pieces. Sharmeen Al-Jaff on our staff certainly did a
great job in putting the staff report together and reviewing the project. The site itself is located at
the confluence of 101 and Lyman Boulevard. The new interchange there at 101. This project
itself has some history specifically regarding the mixed use development, or zoning application
on the site. That zoning actually goes back to 1991 where we actually allowed high density
residential or allowed commercial in the site, and depending on the application that came in.
When the Southwest Transit project came forward, at that time the staff met with the neighbors
and project put together a conceptual PUD and that’s what we did at the time to kind of frame up
what was happening in that area itself. And with that we did build a conceptual PUD and put
some things in there, in place, and that was done back in 2005. Again we didn’t have a project in
front of us so just kind of understanding what was happening in the community at the time, tried
to put together a specific plan. That plan was reflected in this project layout right here so this
would be right now, which is open, the Southwest station site. And this was the conceptual
approval for the project that we’re talking about tonight. Another project that was built in this
area is the Gateway housing project. The rest of this has not come forward. So that was part of
that original PUD. So since that time, this has been sold off and Kraus Anderson has the project
that’s going before you tonight. Again the conceptual approval for that PUD is one of the things
we’ll be addressing tonight and the amendment to that, they are seeking in order to amend that
PUD to get their project approved. Since that original one we’ve had numerous meetings with
the neighbors regarding desires. The kind of the changes. Certainly this is an area of significant
change because of the interchange at 101 and 212 for the neighbors and the concern of some of
the things, and how rapidly things are changing down there so with that in mind, working with
the developer, trying to be sensitive to a lot of those issues. So I’m going to try to break this
down into the specific projects itself. Trying to give you an overview. I’m going to start with
just the overview of the project itself. As you can see there was originally a large apartment
complex on this side of the project that has been eliminated. There are some other opportunities
to do multi family in kind of that super area of the 101/212 interchange. So looking at that,
putting that together we thought made some sense in eliminating that from the project. One of
the biggest concerns then was the square footage and the types of uses and the mix that were
within that project itself. So what we’ve done is identify each of the projects, and we go back
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
and forth between the site itself. What that project is and then talk about what amendments to
the PUD, and again I want to clarify a PUD amendment is different than a variance. Has
different standards so there are two variance requests with this and that’s for setback. They’re
different than the PUD amendment. So as I go through each of those, I’m going to try to
differentiate the requests that are here.
Mayor Furlong: And just real quick, in 20 words or less, the difference between a PUD
amendment and a variance.
Kate Aanenson: A variance has a different test for approval.
Mayor Furlong: And it’s a variance to city code.
Kate Aanenson: The city code, right. The PUD amendment, you establish whatever those are so
that’s just a request to say we re-thought our standards for them because you develop those
standards yourself. So because we already adopted that conceptually, so we’re going to say do
we want to change that rule and that’s just an internal rule. Not a city code.
Mayor Furlong: We want to hold with the conceptual or change as we go forward?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: Okay. Before I go through each of the projects, because I think it’d be helpful
just again trying to do big picture as we move down conceptually… Kind of give you an
overview of the design itself. So this is the look that would be at the corner looking at Lyman,
from the corner of 101. Shooting across this way. The materials itself have, block on the
bottom, brick and then the stucco on that second level with the aluminum siding. We believe it’s
very nice, high quality buildings throughout the project. This is one perspective. Second
perspective. This would be an interchange coming off of 101. This would be right at the corner.
Coming off the interchange at 101. And this would be on 212, driving past the site so you’d be
just on the north side looking south.
Mayor Furlong: And is that a right elevation angle?
Kate Aanenson: This would be the, coming over the overpass. Coming over from, so this is
you’re on 212 looking.
Mayor Furlong: But that’s the actual view that a car would have?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Approximate.
Mayor Furlong: For topography.
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Kate Aanenson: Yeah, we actually have a shoot perspectives…I’ve got it on a smaller scale.
I’m not sure if it’d be productive but it ties back in when we look at the lighting height. We did
ask them to shoot elevations across on both sides, so we have that information.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: And then finally an internal shot of the buildings themselves. So it’s kind of an
overview of the generalized architecture. I’ll go through each of the buildings more specifically
but I think it kind of gives you an overview of the direction that they’re taking. So the first
project we’ll talk about, 4A. It’s actually the Kwik Trip site. The gas station. This is one.
Zoom in on that a little bit. This is one that Sharmeen spent a little bit more time trying to tie it
in architecturally with the existing businesses. I think you know we do have another Kwik Trip
in town. Different architecture than what’s existing in town. Again, wanted to tie into what’s
existing in the center. We believe that this response, it matches up very well. It does have, it
meets all the design standards all the way around the building. It does have a car wash with it,
and the car wash was not described as an accessory use so that’s one amendment to the PUD. To
allow a car wash as accessory. We do allow that in other zoning districts. You don’t want a
separate car wash but if it’s ancillary or supporting a gas station itself, that we would see that as a
support. So the car wash and the gas station is what we’re looking at here.
Mayor Furlong: Is that on a separate parcel from the?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I’ll show you how that breaks out. This is the gas canopy, and I’ll show
that in a second, so this is the gas station and that’s the car wash.
Mayor Furlong: And are all those on a single parcel or are they separate parcels?
Kate Aanenson: They’re all on the same parcel. That would be lot, this lot. Lot 1.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So it meets all those standards. I do want to show the canopy real quickly.
Again we do allow banding, do allow lighting…on that canopy. One of the issues that got raised
before, we take pride in the way that we do our canopies as far as the lighting’s recessed in so we
don’t have that excessive glow. That was one of the issues that we wanted to make sure that we
address with the neighborhood and we’ll talk about in a minute, but the height of the lights, the
intensity and that sort of thing so that did come up. We believe that it’s consistent with our other
gas stations and we do have a good standard there.
Mayor Furlong: What, is it similar height to other gas stations in town?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, correct. Correct. Then the other issue that came up, that we did spend
some time on was signage for the Kwik Trip itself. The gas station that they have actually out on
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West 78 had a little bit different monumentation and signage so we did discuss that. We did
agree to let the, there are, each individual lot gets a monument sign so we did agree to allow
again, this is a PUD standard. It’s not a variance. To allow this to be the 8 foot high and allow
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for a bigger square footage and wouldn’t say multi tenant. This would be clearly just to identify
pricing of gas and electronically report that they want. The issue that we did not concur on and
the Planning Commission also supported the staff was that we didn’t want a pylon sign on
Highway 5. That’s one of the things we’re talking about with the city code. We don’t want to
give that now, and we want to go back and look at the entire 212 corridor. We don’t want other
applications on 101, especially in the neighborhood areas, kind of look at that impact. Where
they should be, so they’ve got some construction time out there. That’s something if we amend
our code, they can come back and ask but we want to study that. Not with a specific application
but kind of go back and study that up and down the corridor where those appropriate places
would be.
Councilman Litsey: Are you talking about you don’t want the pylon sign like on that one side
there?
Kate Aanenson: This pylon sign, if you looked on the other site plan.
Mayor Furlong: Is, but I think Councilman Litsey, is that the one to the left of the screen?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: That they’re asking for but you’re recommending not to approve.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. 40 feet high, correct.
Councilman Litsey: Right.
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Councilman Litsey: Okay. Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: Yep. That’s what we’re saying we didn’t support. There are individual signs
and I’ll talk about those in a minute too. So that’s the first land use. Or the first site plan. So
you saw the site plan. I talked to you about what the amendments are. Again one other issue on
that was outdoor storage. I think the Planning Commission talked about that a little bit.
Typically there’s ice and some of those other things out there. They just wanted to make sure
that it’s architecturally compatible and they’re working on that and we believe that can be
accomplished and that doesn’t interfere with traffic. I think some of the comments from the
neighbors like it’s a really nice building, let’s not have all the appendixes out there. While it is
convenient to put the car wash, windshield fluid, some of that stuff out there, that they didn’t
want it to deviate from the nice building itself. Okay, so the second one. Any questions on
Kwik Trip itself before I move on to the second building?
Councilman Litsey: You just mentioned about lighting and lighting impact. What residential
housing would that really impact?
Kate Aanenson: The lighting of that. It’s on the other side of 212.
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Councilman Litsey: Actually kind of going over 212 and onto the other side?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah. It’s really what we call kind of the glow effect, so we’re trying to keep it
downcast and that’s why we lowered those, the overall lighting itself. It’s, even though it’s 25
feet, you’re still going to have some glowing effect, and that’s, as opposed to you know not
necessarily night sky. They still seem more illuminated.
Councilman Litsey: So it’s not a direct impact? It’s the aesthetic glow...type of thing.
Kate Aanenson: Absolutely. Right. Correct.
Councilman Litsey: Thank you.
Kate Aanenson: The second site plan then would be building 4B. This is for a multi tenant
building with an area of 11,000 square feet. This request that we’re amending on the PUD is for
a drive thru for a coffee shop. As we talked about again with the code amendments, our code
typically in the past we’ve just addressed drive thru’s for banks. There are other types of drive
thru’s that we said that are not restaurant related food service, including dry cleaning, drug
stores. We also felt that you know that a coffee shop would be an appropriate use. The
neighbors supported that, so we did recommend the PUD amendment to allow for the drive thru
coffee shop on this building itself. And that would be along this end up here. On this end up
here.
Mayor Furlong: So that’s the location of the drive thru up there?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Up there. So that would be the PUD amendment there. Let’s
see. And then I’ll show you that building itself. Again a multi tenant building. Building 4C is a
two story multi tenant. They have a second floor of 11,000 square feet. The signs on this
building, on the second floor. It’s a condition that we have in the city code that says that when
they’re on the second floor that they not be illuminated. That’s kind of to let neighborhood
tolerance. That glowing. Kind of what we talked about. While it may not necessarily shine in
your eyes, it’s still that light that can be a nuisance so we’re recommending that the signage on
the second floor be eliminated.
Mayor Furlong: And signage for this building, it backs up to Lyman. Are there going to be lit
signs on the Lyman side as well as lit signs on the parking lot side?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Only on the first floor. …second floor may not be illuminated at all.
Mayor Furlong: But there will be signs on both floors or did I see somewhere that you wanted to
limit the signs to the first floor?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, that’s a discussion when I get to the signs too, we talk about…we have a
certain height of 20 feet. I think they want the flexibility within that parapet area so we wanted
to make sure that we went…but there will be some taller ones on that. Is that your question?
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Mayor Furlong: It’s my question, I thought I saw somewhere that the desire to limit the signs to
the first story only.
Kate Aanenson: No, and it just said they can’t be illuminated. I’m reading from page 10, where
we just say that they can have them. That we just don’t want them lit.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Let’s keep going.
Kate Aanenson: Then Building 4D. Another restaurant. Potential restaurant site. Would be for
8,000 square feet retail building. There’s no PUD amendments with this one. 4E is the bank
building. The bank building itself is 5,000 square feet. Does have the drive thru which we did
put in the original PUD. The sixth one is the smaller building. 4F, the smaller retail building.
That’s 3,400 square feet. Again no amendments on that. And then the final one would be the
4G. And then the last one would be the 4G which is to be a 10,000 square foot building. Deli
and liquor store, but the condition in there would be that the liquor not exceed 60%. There’s
other businesses in there. Restaurant and the like. Deli. In the PUD it said no single user
greater than 8,000 square feet. The underlying zoning district, the BN district which the
comprehensive plan references. Says that this should be based on that district. Does not cap any
square footage so that came out of kind of that concept where we’re doing that, so again we
didn’t know what those users would be. A lot of things got thrown around at kind of what would
be an appropriate use down in this area. This one seemed to, seemed to be a nice mix for the rest
of the development in there. So we are recommending going up to the 10,000 because it would
be a single use, although there are kind of 2 or 3 businesses in there. I don’t want to split hairs
on that and say it is one user. Running different types of businesses in there. So with that, there
was a couple concerns that were brought up by the neighbors and we want to address them. I’m
not sure we can do that right now but they were concerned about some of the noise on the, if
there’s an outdoor patio. What they’re showing so we kind of want to work with that project
when it comes in and see what they do. Whether we need to provide. We do have some of that,
where there is residential already in the core of downtown. Outside businesses. We don’t
anticipate live bands. We’d look at that. We do require speaker, but if there is some music, we
want to make sure that that’s not a nuisance for those across the street that have a lot of that kind
of attractive nuisance sort of issues. And that goes with some of the other things that we’ve
talked about already. Lighting and that sort of thing so I think we can work through that issue
itself.
Councilwoman Ernst: So Kate when you refer to the four outdoor seating areas, is that the patio
area that you’re talking about?
Kate Aanenson: This one, yeah. The outdoor patio, yeah. But if they were to sit outside and
have a fire pit or music or something, some of the neighbors were concerned, and rightly so, that
that’s not loud across the street and down the way. That we make sure that that’s addressed.
Mayor Furlong: And if that happens, are there, where’s the ability to address it?
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Kate Aanenson: Well they haven’t come in for that, we’ve got a site plan approved. I think
what they’re going to have to demonstrate to us is who’s sitting out there. How they’re
providing the noise attenuation so we’d make a condition, or modify that when it comes in, that
they need, when they pull the building permit, show us how they’re going to provide for noise
attenuation which is a requirement of our city code already. That they can’t violate that noise
ordinance. We just want to make sure that they’re aware of that and the neighbors have raised
that as an issue. I think it can be done through landscaping.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So you know muffling that, and we make sure the lighting out there isn’t bright.
That people sitting outside heavily lit, those sort of things. I think we can address it that way.
Mayor Furlong: You think that can be done at the permitting process or?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, when they come in and show us exactly how they’re going to use it.
Right now there’s not that dimension on that. You know we try to encourage some of those such
as we’ve done on Axel’s, on Houlihan’s. They’ve outdoor seating. They don’t have loud
speaker systems or a lot of noise out there. Houlihan’s has some music but it’s pretty low key,
and there is residential right within that development itself too. So we don’t have too many
complaints but there is single family residential within that and we just want to make sure the
noise isn’t traveling, and that’s how we’ve addressed it through those kind of techniques. And
maybe they have to put up some wing walls. When we see how the patio’s being used, then
we’ll address it after that. Just so they’re aware of that condition that’s a concern.
Mayor Furlong: And as long as we’re talking about that building, because we have a larger size
than what we originally entailed. While there’s an anticipation at this point that it’s going to be a
deli-liquor store, it could be another use in the future.
Kate Aanenson: It could be. It could be.
Mayor Furlong: So, I guess with regard to the issue of noise, that we were just addressing as
well as the size, is there any concern that you have of the size of that for a use that would not
necessarily meet with this neighborhood business?
Kate Aanenson: That’s a great question. I think a lot of what’s going to drive it is they’re going
to still have to meet the parking demands so if it came, a liquor store’s going to have a different
retail. It’s going to be different than if it was a larger restaurant, something of that nature. They
would still have to meet the parking demand and that’s where, they might not be able to
accomplish that if some of the other uses went away. If something went away to accomplish
providing that. Additional parking requirement. That’s what’s going to be the catch on that.
Because it would require more parking if it went away from a store as opposed to some other
type of use.
Mayor Furlong: And is there, would there be a need to come back to the city if it was just a
different use?
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Kate Aanenson: Well if it’s in the PUD, if it met those criteria. But if there was a significant
change, then we would certainly come back.
Mayor Furlong: So if there was a request for a change in the PUD.
Kate Aanenson: Yep. If it went to something very similar, then we probably wouldn’t but
definitely if it went from something drastically different. Okay. I’m now on page 12 of the staff
report. I mentioned a little big about lighting signage again. Originally at 30 foot, we did ask
them to shoot some cross sections on both sides and we did ask that they reduce the lights down
to 25 feet again. I’m not sure they’re looking in anybody’s window per se, but it’s just that
glowing effect that we were trying to reduce. We talked about Kwik Trip already and we did
agree to the 48 square feet on that one sign, with the 8 feet in height, and that would be this size
sign. Again it would…just for identifying, up in this area, identifying the gas pricing. There’s
also signs that are on the perimeter of the entire site. A sign here. Those are located at the
entrances right here, right here. There’s a larger one here and then at this site too. Each
individual lot by ordinance is allowed a monument sign, and those are the smaller ones.
Individual identification signs. Certainly going in to the bank, they would have a sign
identifying that, as with these individual lots. Also get a sign…the pylon sign. There are some
additional architectural features, including fencing around again…for that residential across the
way that will be in front of the park and ride. Reducing some of that so that looks very nice.
And then parking. Meets all the standards of our parking requirements. I talked a little bit about
the architecture. What I’d like to do now, I’m on page 18 of the staff report. The subdivision
itself and what we’re doing there. We’re creating the lots. 5 lots and an outlot and again as I
mentioned, each lot does allow a separate monument sign but this is how the extraction, the
number of lots created generates the fees and the extractions and those are in the staff report.
There was a change, which I did hand out to you, and that’s regarding storm water fees based on
net developable acreage. And then there was one other minor change regarding location of the
propane tanks and proximity to another power line so that was one minor change which I did
give you in your staff report. So with that, I’m on page 18. I just want to again remind you of
the amendments that you’ll be making the motions on. If you want to track that. Again the first
PUD amendment would be the drive thru window. The second one would be increasing the size
of any single tenant by up to, from 8,000 to 10,000. That’s actually on two buildings. Building
G and Building 4C. And that could be all one office use on the second floor. That’s kind of
what we were looking at there. If one office use wanted to go on that second floor, we would not
be opposed to that. Accessory use to allow the car wash for the gas station.
Mayor Furlong: So I’m sorry, if I could back up then. For Building G, did you show us which
one that one is?
Kate Aanenson: That’s this one. That was 8 and now we said no single use greater than 8. That
would allow it to go to 10,000.
Mayor Furlong: Right.
Kate Aanenson: And they have one of those buildings 4C.
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Mayor Furlong: 4C.
Kate Aanenson: The whole second floor, if they had one single tenant office use across the
whole top, we would not be opposed to that.
Mayor Furlong: And this just speaks to, does this speak to the second floor only or?
Kate Aanenson: No, it actually speaks to both floors. I stand corrected.
Mayor Furlong: So you could have a single tenant across the entire building?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. More than likely we don’t anticipate that but that’s how that reads,
and if you wanted to clarify that. Only on the second floor, then that might be another
amendment.
Mayor Furlong: And what’s the size of that building? What’s the square footage?
Kate Aanenson: 13 and 11 I believe. 13 on the first floor and 11 on the second.
Mayor Furlong: So we could conceivably have a 13,000 square foot tenant on the first floor?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. The one thing I did, okay let me finish the PUD. Okay, so we talked
about the accessory for the car wash. And then the other one would be the setbacks. We’re
doing similar to what we did. We’ve got a lot of green space here so we’re reducing the setback
to make that more urban feel. We did it across the street. Put the row houses on the park and
ride lot, and also the park and ride commercial on that side. Again we’ve got a large spans of
101 crossing and do have residential on both sides. We want to make it a comfortable walk
across so you’re not going across this large sea, so we are recommending a setback, that does
require a 50 foot so we are supporting that. That that is being reduced to 20 feet. So that’s just
the setback to the property line. We still have a significant amount between the property line and
to the right-of-way and so again trying to make that, not a insurmountable walk across, where it
seems like you’re forever going across. We also have sidewalks on both sides. That issue was
addressed. This sidewalk is showing actually 6 foot of trail actually on the other side of the
street so it’s again a very pedestrian friendly because we do anticipate quite a bit of walking
traffic in that area too. I still want to go back to accessory use for the car wash, gas station. We
also talk about outdoor storage. Amended to allow for that. Signs, we talked about the signs. I
don’t think I need to say anything else about that. We talked about the project having an
identification sign…and wall signs which… No on the pylon signs. Talked about the illuminated
signs. Lighting be reduced to 25 feet. We do have the Findings of Fact in there for the PUD.
Again the variance would be, because this is a requirement of a PUD, the setbacks so that does
require that is a PUD setback, a PUD standard. By city code that we are amending, so that does
require a variance. The 50 down to the 20. So that’s the only variance. The findings are in the
staff report. And then, last but not least, the subdivision itself. Again creating the 5 lots and the
outlot for the stormwater pond and the wetland. And the street right-of-way. So with that, if you
go to page, PUD itself and the recommended changes start on page 33. And also in there are the
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motions and the page numbers they’re at, so there’s 4 motions. One for the PUD amendments.
One for the variance. One for the subdivision. And one approving all the site plans. With that, I
apologize for the length and the detail but I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: We might have one question or two. Who would like, any questions for staff?
Councilman McDonald: I have a question.
Mayor Furlong: Councilman McDonald, please.
Councilman McDonald: I’m sorry for having to do this to you Kate but I do, you know I’ve got
some background on this one too. I remember the meeting. One of the, you covered all the
issues. The only question that I really have was again the entrance onto Lyman. I know that we
had asked something there about the potential for a problem and a number of the residents had
come in and they talked about trying to actually turn to the south onto their property off of
Lyman, and we were wondering about the impact of this as you now have traffic coming out
onto Lyman. Are we creating a problem, and I think we did discuss, because of the distance to
the corner, we’re not going to be doing a stop light. It is controlled by the county and I’m just
wondering what have you found out really since the Planning Commission as far as that.
Kate Aanenson: Sure, I’ll let Paul address that. I’ll just say you know, we recognize over time
that this, they may lose that as a full access. But we certainly want to work with these property
owners to tie into that development, but I’ll let Paul comment. The City Engineer comment on
that.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, since the Planning Commission met…changed significantly. I mean that
access might be restricted to right in only. So we’re, we’ll be monitoring in the future again but
you know from the County’s perspective, I don’t think a signal is warranted at that location so in
terms of the property owners that currently exist there, you know we’re trying to work with them
as alternative access alignments for them too so we’ve talked to them in the past and we’ll try to
continue to try to work with them on those type of issues.
Kate Aanenson: I think the key is going to be when this property develops, is trying to work that
driveway into the access to this parcel too so. And that project…something else coming forward
in the future.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. I just wanted to, because you hadn’t brought that up. Again as I
said, you addressed all the issues that were brought up before and thank you for the resolution to
all of that so, thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions at this time?
Councilwoman Ernst: Just one question.
Mayor Furlong: Please.
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Councilwoman Ernst: Kate, you know on, I looked at this and I saw another bank building, and
is it really going to be another bank?
Kate Aanenson: It is.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Just had to ask that question because I know we have a lot of
banks in this town and it’s another bank there so.
Councilman Litsey: Becoming the Wall Street district. I had a quick question on, there is a
wetlands there.
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Councilman Litsey: And obviously concerned to protect that between this development and the
Highway 212 corridor there. There was something about a retaining wall in there that had to be,
that’s been.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I can just show you real quick. One of the issues that was kind of a
sticking point as we worked through the different designs, is this retaining wall right here.
Originally I think they tried to get maintenance through 212. We weren’t happy about that so we
did work through, they made some changes to the design to make sure that we can get access to
the pond. I’ll see if Paul wants to.
Paul Oehme: Yeah, I think the retaining wall that’s shown on this drawing too has been reduced
significantly too so the easterly half of that wall, northeast portion I think is going to be
eliminated. Final design.
Councilman Litsey: So it’s consistent with the setback requirements and things too there?
Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes, so this will…sheets that you got also in your packet.
Mayor Furlong: Couple questions in no particular order. The drive thru that’s over on the 101
side. The flow of traffic there will come from the north and, is that right or?
Kate Aanenson: Yes, it’s coming this way.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And so what, since it’s coming out of the parking lot, I mean stacking
isn’t an issue. What about views from 101 as people are passing on 101?
Kate Aanenson: That, and I might not have done a complete justice to that, was the fence and,
right here. There’s additional fencing. You can see some of it here but also goes along this
stretch, and that is shown in this detail here.
Mayor Furlong: So it was mentioned that it’s a wrought iron type fence.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
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Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, so it’s open slates?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, but there’ll be landscaping there too and that will also divide that
screening from the lights and some of that other noise attenuation and those sort of things from,
so it’s not, when you drive by you’re not just looking at cars stacked up but you’ll see…
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and so the landscaping there, what are you landscaping? Are you
landscaping with like evergreen shrubs and so forth, so it’s opaque basically or are they over
story trees so you’d be looking underneath it anyway or what do you have?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. It’s consistent with the profile. Again this is illustrative so it’s not
going to be the exact. So that’s the intent. To have some deciduous. Some evergreens.
Different heights so you’re also providing something to shade some of the lighting, and then also
the car lighting, so we’ll have a little of both, which is what’s shown on this plan itself. You can
see the detail on the…
Mayor Furlong: Okay, but in front of the drive thru itself, it’s going be the wrought iron so it’s
going to be see through?
Kate Aanenson: Right, yeah and we’ll make sure that there’s landscaping in front of that for
that. We talked about.
Mayor Furlong: Actually my question, I think my preference would be that you wouldn’t be
able to see much in terms of the car lights coming across from a safety standpoint.
Kate Aanenson: I understand what you’re saying. I think the landscaping, that sometimes when
we have a solid, there’s some often, you know when you’re snow plowing and some of that sort
of thing too, I want to make sure that that works.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s fine but.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, so if I understand the goal is to screen it.
Mayor Furlong: That’s just my preference in terms of cars stacking and such like that and to the
extent it’s off to the side, it’s not going to effect the architecture as much.
Kate Aanenson: Well, I’ll let the architect.
Mayor Furlong: But they can work with you on that.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I’d let the architect defer that but sometimes that can also be a visual
kind of heavy barrier too to have that much kind of brick so I think we want to, right.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah, and I’m not saying necessarily go with the brick but use landscaping but
evergreens versus just overstory.
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Kate Aanenson: Absolutely. A mix.
Mayor Furlong: So you’re not seeing any, yep. Yep. The, on the signs. Can you show us
where each of the, on the plans, where each of the signs are and what type of sign expecting to be
there?
Kate Aanenson: Monument signs?
Mayor Furlong: Let’s start with those.
Kate Aanenson: Okay. These are going to be the entrance signs. This one.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s the entrance for the, that’s the big, wide entrance sign, correct?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: There’s one there and one at the corner?
Kate Aanenson: It will also be this one here. This one we try to do all 4 corners so they’re
similar. And then there’s one here and here. And those would be the lower, profile. That would
be this sign.
Mayor Furlong: Which would be, which ones are those? The little ones then.
Kate Aanenson: That would be the one I just pointed to with the landscaping on the perimeter.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay.
Kate Aanenson: The gas station wanted a taller one.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s the, is that the.
Kate Aanenson: 48 square feet. 8 feet high.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s the second one on this sheet of signs that you just showed? …okay.
Now how does that compare to the Kwik Trip one on Highway 5?
Kate Aanenson: Same size. There was a lot of discussion that were they being treated the same.
It was a different there based on the comparing the two lots. The location. That they could have
had more so, that was again the PUD. Compromise that the council gave. Putting that PUD
standard in. We took the more restrictive on the other ones. The 24 square feet on the other
ones. Level of profile so that would be for the other lots. It’s for each individual lot…
subdivision so obviously the bank will have one and other lots will each get one and that would
be, because this is…so the bank would get one. There’d be one on, there’s just one lot for all of
this. So there’d be one monument sign identifying all these. And then one separate one, this one
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is also a separate lot as is this one, so there’d be separate monuments for that one. And that’s
allowed by the current sign ordinance. Each.
Mayor Furlong: That’s the public street that runs through there, correct?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: So it’s.
Kate Aanenson: And if it’s a separate lot, you get a monument sign.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: In addition to that, every frontage, every street frontage is allowed a wall sign.
So, and those are clearly identified on the plans that we showed you for the multi tenants and the
like. That’s pretty much the sign band and maybe I didn’t make that clear, and I apologize, when
we talked about the sign band itself. There was a question as far as the height and what that
should be, and the recommendation was that it be just under the parapet. We recommended a
certain height and I think we don’t want it to come back if it’s slightly over. I think the goal is to
show where it is on the band, and that would be that stucco area. So that would be consistent.
The only different again, it’d be on that south side of Lyman in that second story that they’re not
be lit.
Mayor Furlong: So if you go back to the site plan, is it the large lot there in the south?
Kate Aanenson: This would be the street frontage.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So you could have lights on the street frontage, street frontage, street frontage.
Mayor Furlong: And then what would be interior to the.
Kate Aanenson: This has one frontage on, so this would be on that frontage. And the bank
would have this frontage.
Mayor Furlong: And the three buildings under 4D, C and B, what are their signage on the
interior side?
Kate Aanenson: They’re allowed 2 front, 2 sign bands so they will also have a, it shows up on
the, see 4C. This shows the different fascia’s so that would be consistent. That’s what is
allowed by ordinance. And more than likely it’s not going to be that heavily. They showed how
many options. I don’t think you’re going to have that many signage out of the visual cuing
nightmare.
Mayor Furlong: Do we have the Market Street, do we have signs up on the second story?
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Kate Aanenson: Yeah, actually on that other plan it shows you. I think that one drawing. If you
look at this one, it’d be similar kind of banding and it would be along the back side.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. But we don’t, but they’re all at that same level?
Kate Aanenson: Well there’s some on the back side that are taller. There are some on the
second floor. I’m not sure…but some of the office buildings.
Cindy McDonald: It’s Spalon Montage and Americana.
Mayor Furlong: And that was, I know those were both special ones that we addressed.
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Mayor Furlong: But that wasn’t part of the original.
Kate Aanenson: Right, anticipating what’s going to happen on this site, we tried to address that.
Make that amendment up front so they’ve got that option. So it also affects, of course any tenant
wants to know when they’re going in there, do I, can I have a sign? Can people identify? Do
they know where to park? What building I’m in so, anticipating what will happen on the other
one, we tried to build the ordinance for that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: It’d be similar to this.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then in terms of the architecture, I guess looking at the different
architecture styles along the different buildings. The one that jumped out at me that doesn’t
seem to be at the same level is the gas station, convenience store and the car wash. In terms of
the articulation. In terms of the differences in colors. The one that we’re seeing on the screen
right here. Just lay the gas station over that. It seems significantly less I guess.
Kate Aanenson: I think, again from where it came in originally and Sharmeen working,
Sharmeen Al-Jaff on our staff working with the applicant, we really tried to make that more
cohesive as far as using the brick and the similar colors. But it is two different architects. So we
did our best to try to blend this. The other project is all being managed by one developer so you
get a little bit different feel. This is a different owner. Different builder on this one so we tried
our best to try to match. You’ve got that…block on the bottom and the brick, but it is a little bit
different style. But from where we started.
Mayor Furlong: I’ve got no doubt that you’ve made progress. I’ve got no doubt.
Kate Aanenson: We’re very happy with where it ended up. It’s a lot different than what they
have on Highway 5.
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Mayor Furlong: I’m trying to see if we’ve gotten it far enough, yeah.
Kate Aanenson: It does meet you know, it is a PUD. The one, you know we talked about some
of the things we got with the PUD. We think we’ve gotten a really good, high quality
architecture on this project itself. That’s one thing I think that, a lot of developers don’t care to
go through the PUD because of some of the onerous regulations, but I think in this circumstance
we did get a really high quality design. And I don’t think Kwik Trip’s got another one like this
right in this area that’s going to look like this.
Mayor Furlong: Well and maybe I can talk to the applicant about that or they can address that,
because I, this one seemed to stand out from the other ones in terms of the look and the feel.
Okay. Any other questions at this time? For staff. I’m sorry, did you have one?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah. Kate when you refer to the access drive being 26 feet wide for that
public street, it’s actually connecting to the public street. Sorry.
Kate Aanenson: This one?
Councilwoman Ernst: Yeah. So, you’re saying that the.
Kate Aanenson: It’s this one here. It’s this first drive. It’s addressed in that first page, yeah.
Councilwoman Ernst: Oh, okay.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think there was concern about that. That drive itself. That’s on page 2
of the cover memo. That’s this access point right here.
Councilwoman Ernst: So you said that the, that the access drive connecting to the public street
must be modified. So what is it?
Kate Aanenson: I can check but I believe that has been modified. What page are you, or what
condition number are you on?
Councilwoman Ernst: 33.
Kate Aanenson: I think that was the one that we modified. Yeah, originally we had modified to
26 feet, is that what we’re talking about?
Paul Oehme: Yeah.
Kate Aanenson: We’ve acquiesced and made it wider. Left it wider, which our city code does
allow to, and that’s, so we don’t have back up. So we’re getting people in and out of this main
point.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Paul Oehme: That was one of the main issues surrounding the traffic flow in this area is that one
access point so we went back and forth several times on the location of that. How that, how
wide it should be at the sight distances. So this is what we have come up with.
Mayor Furlong: And is your question where is it and?
Councilwoman Ernst: Well where is it number one, and number two.
Kate Aanenson: It’s this access point.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: The main access coming into the Kwik Trip site.
Councilwoman Ernst: And so you’re saying that the maximum width is 26 feet. Acceptable is
26 feet, right?
Paul Oehme: Right.
Councilwoman Ernst: And so how wide is it? Is that access?
Kate Aanenson: We modified that. That got struck.
Mike Korsh: …was 30 and the other was at 36 and the other’s at 32.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, but we also, that was one of the modifications. We did strike that
condition. That was the modifications that were to allow that to be wider. That condition was
struck and that’s condition number 24. Page 45 of 51.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay. Okay, because I, as I was looking at it on 33, it looked like it was
still a valid piece of it. So we’re saying that’s out?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. It’s out. That’s probably where the most turn movements are going to
come in right off there, cutting through the gas station so we left it wider.
Councilwoman Ernst: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: Okay for now?
Councilwoman Ernst: Thank you.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. The applicant’s here. Thank you. We may have some other follow up
questions. I know they’re here. If you’d like to come forward.
Mike Korsh: Mr. Mayor, members of the council. My name is Mike Korsh with Kraus
Anderson Realty. Appreciate your time tonight. We worked long and hard with the
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neighborhood and the staff who did a great job sort of putting all these moving parts together.
We are, sounds like you have a couple of questions. I’m here with Kathy Anderson, the architect
and Dan Parks with Westwood. I think also San Van Tassel with Kwik Trip. I think we can
answer any questions that you have.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Any questions for the architect or for the applicant?
Councilman McDonald: I have none.
Councilman Litsey: No, not at this time.
Mayor Furlong: I guess one I’d like to talk about would be the architecture. I brought it up
about the convenience store and especially relative to the rest of the development.
Mike Korsh: The Kwik Trip?
Mayor Furlong: Yes.
Mike Korsh: Yeah, I think that they’re the same materials.
Mayor Furlong: You’ve got those pictures there still?
Mike Korsh: The architect’s worked together and again maybe Kathy can explain this a little bit.
Kathy Anderson: I think we’ve done a great job as far as tying it together. I think the difference
is you’ve got two different renderers so you’ve got from my firm all the other buildings.
However, the Kwik Trip is going to have the exact same brick materials on the material board.
Exact same block materials. Also we were real careful, we have some sloped roof elements on
the 10,000 square foot liquor-deli building and also the shingles will be exactly the same so I
think you’re going to see it tying in very well. I just think in these two renditions, this is a larger
scale than the other buildings. Little tiny elements even such as the arched form over the entry,
and we’ve got arched forms repeating throughout the rest of the buildings, and the banding and
certainly the proportions of the building.
Councilman McDonald: Could I ask a question? The conflict you’re having there, is it partly
because, again at the north end is where the single story buildings are at, and when you get to the
south is where the two stories and there’s a difference. Is that part of what it is that?
Mayor Furlong: Well it’s that and maybe it’s the renderings but it’s the use of different features.
Do you have a picture of the other buildings that you can lay up there. And maybe it’s the colors
but there’s more contrast. The style of those, especially at the roof line. The Kwik Trip at the
roof line simply has the one peak, where these have the more column like look to them.
Kathy Anderson: Right. As you can see.
Mayor Furlong: And Haskell’s you did a peak there but it’s a different style. You know.
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Kathy Anderson: But we do repeat the sloped, small roof elements exactly like the Kwik Trip. I
think that will tie it in well, and then I think these arched forms that repeat throughout on the first
level is very similar proportions and we want to make sure their entry carries that arch form in.
You can see the same banding and soldier coursing. The same brick, block based proportions. I
just think it’s in rendering, there’s two different color tones but again, we’re being exact as far as
the same specifications of materials.
Mayor Furlong: Exactly same materials? Exact same colors? Exact same?
Kathy Anderson: Yep. Everything building in this development.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kathy Anderson: Also I think differently too when you get to the retail buildings, there’s large
store front sizes of windows which makes it different. When you get to the bank and the Kwik
Trip, the smaller windows are going to repeat.
Mayor Furlong: Yeah. Why don’t you put the Kwik Trip back up. Okay. In terms of the
windows running across that, obviously, if I’m correct, the side to the left of the screen would
run along 101, is that correct?
Kathy Anderson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: And one of the things that, and you obviously asked them a question about the
drive thru. You know as much, this is, given it’s location as well as the traffic that goes along
101, having a good solid, you know above average. You know we’re not from Lake Wobegon
where everybody’s above average but looking for always to have a very nice look along our
roads and so it seems that this building, and particularly in the car wash, the back of the car wash
was the other one. You’ve got that right there. It looked, and I’m reacting. I’m not an architect
so all I’m doing is reacting. Looked very boxy. And again here especially, this was probably the
one that caught my eye first and then when I looked back I noticed the difference with the Kwik
Trip and the style and the look relative to the rest of the development.
Kathy Anderson: Well a little background on where we came up with the style in general is, we
thought it was very important to tie into the transit urban character of the transit development,
and that was not the sloped roofs and such. However I do think bringing in a few, in some of
these areas, the slight amount of the shingles is a good kind of tie in. Little bit moving away
from the urban, as you transition to residential. So it is a boxy style but that is that urban
character and I think it is going to really play off well with your other development.
Mayor Furlong: And maybe the difference is here, and again just reacting, and maybe it’s just
the rendering but this building, I know it’s a small building. It’s an accessory building but even
the convenient store, doesn’t have that same vertical look to it that the other buildings do. In
terms of the lighter colors.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Kathy Anderson: Yep, it does have on the street side you know that bump out, which is a similar
proportion.
Mayor Furlong: And so you’re saying that look would be identical to the look of the other
buildings? With the pop out’s there too.
Kathy Anderson: Similar to, where’s the smallest?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, the bank is the smallest.
Kathy Anderson: Or that little free standing. Here. I think when you look at the styles of those
again some of the proportions are repeating. That is a form that sticks out, protrudes from the
building. Again the same base.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. In terms of the signage, there was a request for a pylon sign that staff is
not recommending. Maybe you could address that.
Kathy Anderson: Where is that 3D rendering?
Mike Korsh: We spent a lot of time talking about the pylon sign on the highway. We feel it’s
very important and relevant. Very important to the potential tenants in the development. We
understand that the idea is to do a more global corridor study, and to determine what pylon sign
is appropriate and we’re fine with that. We’d love to be involved and put our two cents in from
an owner’s or developer’s perspective. But again we want to make sure that we let you know
that we feel that it’s very important and will be for the development in the future.
Kathy Anderson: We thought it was very important too that it wasn’t you know, when you think
of pylon you think of something on some poles that are shooting up in the air and I think this
rendering shows it well that it’s much in scale with the buildings. It’s much in scale with the
architecture. Again the same repeated forms of the arch and the brick. But also we had
discussions about not needing the monument sign per lot. It’s more important that we get for
these tenants, well each one is going to ask first thing is, will we have any exposure from the
freeway. And it’s very important for leasing. But once you get internal to the site, it’s not, all
those little monument signs I don’t think are as necessary as something like this.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Councilman McDonald: If I could, you know when we discussed this, I was in favor of the
monument sign but again I thought something was brought up about consistency. The other
thing that I think also needs to be brought out in this, that we went through this in great detail.
This really is not going to be a neighborhood draw. This is really a regional draw. One of the
things that really came to pass in all of this is that you can get onto 312 down around 41 and
you’re going to have to drive way past Eden Prairie before there’s any kind of convenience
stores. So one of the big draws to this is going to be off of 312 as people commute back and
forth. That’s why yeah, the pylon sign will probably help those businesses to attract people in
there. And we all felt that this needs to be successful and that 312 helps to go toward that. The
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
pylon sign is probably part of it but yet the same time we as a city should look at what are we
going to do from a consistency standpoint because this probably is not going to be the only
development along 312 and we do need time to kind of look at what is our approach but. I do
understand what the applicant is saying. I am in favor of something there but I’m also in favor of
it needs to be consistent within city rules.
Kate Aanenson: Mayor, if I may add too.
Mayor Furlong: Please.
Kate Aanenson: You know the underlying zoning district is neighborhood commercial, which
doesn’t allow pylon signs. Herein lies the problem. Clearly the developer stated that you know,
this is going to be a bigger draw. Okay. Well now is everybody going to make that same point
along this corridor. What does that mean? So I think we need to step back and look at the
implications. Do we want pylon signs up and down the new corridor and on 101 and we just
want to understand that, just as the commissioner, former commissioner said. You know there
was a lot of discussion on that so you know it’s a big issue. We’ve taken a pretty strong stance
on signs in the community so we’ll look at it carefully.
Mayor Furlong: And I would agree with the comments made. I appreciate your willingness to
support staff on this and be involved in the process because I think, this is the first one but there
will be more and we want to make sure we do it right for that sense. I mean this is, the zoning is
neighborhood commercial. Neighborhood business and because of that, you know the types of
businesses are not just wide open and while there will be draw from, clearly from 312, I think
there’s benefit to our residents who live south of Highway 5 for this development as well so.
Points well made. Any other questions for the applicant at this point? Okay, very good. Thank
you. Any follow up questions for staff? Thoughts and comments. Mr. McDonald, would you
like to start?
Councilman McDonald: Thank you Mr. Mayor. Again I think that this is a very well thought
out development. I really applaud the staff for the work that they put into it. I understand more
your concern about the consistency, and I guess maybe if you want to, that’s something that we
could look at, but I’m not sure how far we can go with it. I was okay with the materials. There
is consistency there. It’s not going to be as though the gas station was added on after the fact by
somebody totally different, so I think there is some tie in there to make it consistent, which is
important. The other thing, as I said, as we begin to go through this, it kind of became clear to us
that the potential here is that we end up with a regional draw. It does benefit the people around
the neighborhood. It provides them with again a grocery store south of 5. It provides them with
some of the other amenities. The coffee shops. We don’t know what other kind of retail
business will go in there, and I think Vicki, one of the things you brought up about another bank.
You know I thought I’d seen all the banks in the world come through here but evidently there’s
not enough and as long as people are willing to bank, there will be another bank. So it provides a
lot of things but it kind of became clear to us that this is maybe a little bit more than just a typical
neighborhood development and it’s all because of 312. Again that’s why when Kate brought up
this thing about the pylons, I agree with that. That it does need to be consistent and we do need
to talk about it. As far as the variances and everything, we did cover those and I think one of the
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
things that you know we’re in favor of there is that on that stretch of 101, and once the eastern
side would hopefully be developed, it provides more of a calming effect for that road because it
does give it more of a, I think a downtown feel. That should help us you know keep people from
speeding up and down through there so that was another reason why I think that that variance is a
very good idea in this particular case. And I think other than that we’ve, you know gone through
every building. Looked at every use. I still would support staff as far as the overall plan and
again I would just reiterate that I thought they did an excellent job so that’s all my comments.
Mayor Furlong: Great, thank you. Councilwoman Ernst.
Councilwoman Ernst: Well it’s very obvious that you’ve done a good job of working with staff
and trying to meet the standards of what the city has in place today with the existing structures. I
do have some of the same concerns that the mayor expressed with some of those single buildings
as in the car wash. Just to make sure that we are being consistent as far as roof lines go, and the
architecture in general of the buildings. I think that they’re beautiful buildings. The material
seems to be very consistent and I mean I would support moving forward with the site plan.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Councilman Litsey.
Councilman Litsey: I think everyone’s expressed it real well already. I don’t really have a
whole lot more to add. I think there’s still a little work to be done obviously. This is, we’re
making progress but I think it’s, I commend staff too and the developers for working hard to get
it where it’s at. I think in the end it’s going to be a really nice addition. Something that’s needed
in that area of the city and will tie in well with the new 212 corridor so. Share the same
concerns. I think we can deal with those and I think the project will be an asset to the city.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. I’m still a little concerned about the architecture on the
convenience store, and especially on the car wash just because of their proximity and location.
I’m wondering if it makes sense to take some time and see what can be done there. You know I
think I’m comfortable with the diligence that’s taken place with the applicant and the staff,
especially with regard to lighting. That’s always an issue. We’ve seen other situations where
especially the down lighting underneath the canopy is a spot light for the surrounding properties
and that’s obviously something we’re not going to do here and I like that. I’m glad that we
looked at limiting the height of the poles in the parking area. I’m comfortable with the variance.
Absolutely. I mean that is, especially given the distance between the curb and the property line.
Add to that, I think that will create a good feel and is very appropriate for the area. I’m okay
with the single tenant in the one building. I think that was, is it G that is the liquor store deli?
Kate Aanenson: That is correct. I’ve got concerns about 4C with the two story, potential single
tenant taking up 24,000 square feet as I see that. And the, or a single tenant even on the first
floor of 13,000 square feet. I’ve got concerns. I think that misses what the objective of this
zoning is, which is neighbor convenience. The biggest concern that I hear from residents, I
know as a council and planning commission, staff, we’ve discussed this, is as 312 develops,
creating competition for downtown or replicating, moving downtown out along the corridor and
that is not something we want to do and that was one of the reasons when we first went through
this concept plan, as I recall, that we started at the 8,000 square foot single user. I’m comfortable
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
going to the 10,000 here because we have an idea of what’s coming there. But now basically
what we’re looking at is potentially a 13,000 square foot retail space, which is even 30% more
than the 10 and almost 1 ½ times the 8 that we started with, plus the 11 on top. The 11 on top
from an office user, that doesn’t concern me so much.
Kate Aanenson: Sure. Maybe.
Mayor Furlong: But I, the 13 on the bottom, or the potential that that entire building could be a
single user in an area that could be retail or commercial. I think that’s different than what we
were looking for.
Kate Aanenson: Sure, and maybe it’s worded awkwardly, but on 36 where we described the
permitted uses in the district. Under the bullet points of neighborhood scale commercial.
Mayor Furlong: Which bullet point?
Kate Aanenson: It’s under permitted uses.
Mayor Furlong: Neighborhood scale commercial…
Kate Aanenson: Correct, this is the intent of the PUD, and then specifically call permitted uses.
This kind of goes back to your question on you know if this came in and became something else,
for example a pharmaceutical type use. That’s not you know, if it needed more parking that
would drive it but a grocery store’s not permitted in here and some of those things so if you have
to go through the permitted use. Something that would be completely different. But the square
footage, where we attempted to adopt that, we said neighborhood scale commercial. Up to 8,000
square feet per tenant, with the exception of 4C. A tenant may.
Mayor Furlong: And that’s, 4C is the two story building?
Kate Aanenson: Yep, I just want to clarify where we’re struggling here. A tenant may occupy
up to 10,000 square feet of said, a building. No individual service components of a retail may
occupy more than 8,000 square feet. So maybe I read it awkwardly before. And then the liquor
store may not, so they could go up to 10,000 but not more than 60% of that could be the liquor
portion.
Mayor Furlong: And maybe we need to clean that up to be very clear.
Kate Aanenson: That’s what I’m saying, I think it’s a little awkward.
Mayor Furlong: Because I wouldn’t want to go forward with somebody being able to say, well
4C’s excluded.
Kate Aanenson: Maybe we just need to break it out separately.
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Mayor Furlong: I’d rather make sure on that. And again my thought is, and I’d be happy to
listen to the rest of the council, clearly, but the intention here of this development all along was
to provide that neighborhood convenience and neighborhood commercial. The convenience
store clearly provides that. It’s not a full grocery store but it’s a convenience store, and that’s
what we’re looking for. That’s a type of need that clearly will work in this area and it is a need
that our residents, especially south of 5, have expressed time and again that is lacking. But
maybe we need to re-word this because, and if others disagree with my thoughts, that’s fine but
my thought is simply that continuing to expand the allowable uses, or not being clear that it’s, is
it your intention Kate that it’s up to 10,000 for any single user throughout the entire
development?
Kate Aanenson: No. No. It’s up to 8,000 with the two exceptions. There’s only two
exceptions. 4G, which is the liquor store and that could have 60% liquor related, and 4C which
allows any tenant to occupy up to 10,000. And let me clarify with the applicant but I believe the
first floor of 4C is 13,000 square feet.
Mike Korsh: Correct.
Kate Aanenson: And then the second floor, so it wouldn’t take up the whole first floor of 13.
That tenant could be one single tenant. And the second floor is 11,000 square feet?
Mike Korsh: Well I think it’s actually larger than that.
Kate Aanenson: It is, and I don’t remember that number so just to be clear, in that circumstance,
they still could not occupy more than 10,000 square feet. Any single user so they wouldn’t take
up the entire building. Nor could they take up more than one floor as a single. So you could
have two users at 10,000 on the first floor, one on the second floor, and then there will be some
additional space on both floors for another user.
Mayor Furlong: And what’s the footprint of 4C? 13?
Mike Korsh: 15.
Mayor Furlong: 15.
Kate Aanenson: Per floor.
Mike Korsh: Well, 13 square feet. 13,000 on the first floor. 15 on the second because there’s a
lobby down on the first floor so that’s the difference. The intent is really just to provide some
flexibility. We would not expect a full floor user.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you.
Mike Korsh: That building is laid out.
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Mayor Furlong: I could hear you fine. It’s just the people at home that had no clue what we
were doing.
Mike Korsh: That building’s really laid out for smaller, individual tenants. It’s 60 feet deep and
the floor plan will probably show 12,000 foot tenants. That’s the type of user that we expect.
On the second is where it becomes a little more problematic to have really very small tenants or
restrictions so you know we would expect that it’s possible for an office user to be larger, and so
flexibility is really what we’re.
Councilman Litsey: So basically what you’re allowing is an additional 2,000 square feet. That
flexibility within those buildings.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Because if the first floor is 15, it still can only be 10,000 of one single
user.
Councilman Litsey: Right.
Kate Aanenson: But a lot of that flexibility, if there’s an office user that wanted to take up, on
that second floor, up to 10,000, we feel comfortable with that. And that’s more than likely where
the most single tenant can go. Although if you look at the Edina Realty building, it’s kind of
why it has three uses, it’s really one use. You’ve got something like the mortgage business, the
realty business and the title company, so you actually have 3 under 1 and we get into a lot of
discussions how we split it but it’s really kind of one business. So it’d be a similar circumstance
here where you’ve kind of got that much square footage and so, based on our experience in the
past, we thought that that seemed to make some sense. To build in that flexibility now so they
can lease it and not have to come back and get a separate interpretation because it’s not the entire
square footage, and I want to be clear on that…
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And that does change what I understood earlier.
Kate Aanenson: Okay.
Mayor Furlong: That it would be not only the entire square footage but also the entire building.
And maybe if there’s some clarifying language here, because as I read this, not even 4G is
allowed to be above 8,000, and we know that that’s going to be a single.
Councilman McDonald: Well actually Mr. Mayor on 4G, we went through this. Because of the
nature of what that is, that building will have to be divided if they’re going to sell liquor on one
side and food on the other so they don’t, it may be one business but they don’t get 10,000 square
feet to sell alcohol.
Mayor Furlong: Well, I think they could if they changed their use in the future, or if another
tenant came in there.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, the state law requires that it has to be barricaded…
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Mayor Furlong: If you have two different businesses. I understand that. I was just saying that
as I read this here, it looks like only 4C allows that single tenant.
Kate Aanenson: It’s worded awkwardly.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: Mayor, can I suggest some language? No tenant in any building may occupy
more than 8,000 square feet, except in Buildings 4C and 4G. In Buildings 4C and 4G a tenant
may occupy no more than 10,000 square feet.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. That’s correct.
Todd Gerhardt: That may allow 4G to have a 10,000 square foot liquor store.
Kate Aanenson: Right.
Todd Gerhardt: Unless you have the language in there that a liquor store may not exceed more
than 60% of the.
Roger Knutson: Or we can say a liquor store may not exceed 6,000 square feet.
Mayor Furlong: Well and, I guess the question I would have back then is, and maybe this is
something to look at is, what’s a reasonable expectation for a liquor store? Is 10,000 too much
or 6,000 too little or, you know I don’t know if this is what we want to do right here tonight.
Councilman McDonald: Could we just keep the last sentence in there about.
Kate Aanenson: 60%.
Councilman McDonald: If there is a liquor store, you can occupy no more than 60% of the total
building.
Kate Aanenson: Can we leave that in?
Todd Gerhardt: That’s 6,000.
Councilman Litsey: Still it comes out the same. 6,000. 60%.
Todd Gerhardt: Of G.
Mayor Furlong: Is that okay?
Todd Gerhardt: G’s 10,000. 60% of that is 6,000. I think they’re proposing 8.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Mayor Furlong: So we’ll keep the last sentence in there. And keep the sentence, no individual
service component, do we want to keep that in there as well? So then I guess the real question is
whether we want to take another look or see what can be done on the convenience store building
and the car wash. And I guess is that something that could be done to try to get a sense there of
what more could be done?
Mike Korsh: Yeah, do we want to talk at all about what we’ve done so far and?
Councilman Litsey: You know you had talked about a rendition too and that not doing justice.
Is there a way to provide one?
Mayor Furlong: Especially, and again my concern is simply the views from the street and the.
Kate Aanenson: The material board has, you’re approving this material board so this would be
the same materials in both buildings. So just to be clear on that. I’m not sure that that was
expressed.
Councilman McDonald: Well I think what the issue is, it’s not so much the materials. I mean I
see what you’re talking about. It’s the shape of the buildings and the fact that okay, you’re main
buildings that you get back in there, yeah the columns are very prominent architectural features
so, over space it shows up. The convenience store doesn’t have that space so now what happens
is when you put those in they tend to get lost. And I think all we’re saying is, is that it looks
different. It’s not the same blending as your other buildings in there. Am I getting that correct?
Mayor Furlong: You are and because of that I hate to use flavors but it looks more bland. It
doesn’t have the same high style that the rest of the development does and that’s, and again I’m
reacting. I’m not an architect so I can’t suggest changes and I wouldn’t presume to do so.
Sam Van Tassel: My name is Sam Van Tassel. I’m with Kwik Trip and I’m not an architect
either, obviously. But our architect didn’t like the lines of these buildings, these other buildings
on our smaller building. He thought they’d be out of text. Out of proportion with the buildings
that Kathy designed. So now you’ve got you know the beauty’s in the eye of the beholder and
we thought that we have a beautiful building here with the archways. With the corbelling. With
the pop out of the building so it’s not just one box. We can look at some other things. I’m just
looking here what you’re referring to may be these elements on the buildings so maybe the roof
line of the car wash is not flat. You’re looking more to relief of a parapet on top possibly.
Councilman McDonald: Right. It comes down to a smaller scale of these being duplicated
within the car wash and the Kwik Trip itself.
Mayor Furlong: And that might do, you know that might do it. Repeating the ends there. You
still have, I’m just.
Sam Van Tassel: And we can certainly look at that.
Mayor Furlong: I’m reacting I guess. I’m trying to.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Sam Van Tassel: Understand. We tried not to mimic the other, intentionally. We tried not to
mimic the other building because we want to make it Kwik Trip.
Todd Gerhardt: And that’s, Mayor if I could.
Sam Van Tassel: We wanted to compliment the other buildings and not mimic it. Now one
thing about architecture, the other building we built in town, that was our standard architecture
for 10 years. Everybody knows that’s a Kwik Trip. Just look at it. We’re giving that up here,
and we’re willing to do that. But we wanted to have an attractant that we thought would be more
unique to us and not blend in necessarily, if that’s the right way to put it.
Todd Gerhardt: And I think you just hit on what the Mayor was saying. Is that when you look at
the rest of the development, it looks like, you know I don’t want to call it a corporate campus but
it all blends together. Architecturally it all looks the same, and then when you put up the
rendering of the Kwik Trip, it’s distinctly different than the rest of it, and that was kind of his
question. Is that your goal here to make the Kwik Trip look different than the rest of the
development, because I think in the council’s mind, they’re looking at this as one development
and that it all look the same. When you look at the bank, you look at the Rapid Oil, you look at
the liquor store and the rest of it, it all blends together as the same architectural style. And then
Kwik Trip stands there alone. It looks a little different than the rest of it. And I think that was
your intent. You tried to keep the Kwik Trip design.
Sam Van Tassel: Well, no. This is rather different for Kwik Trip. We first came with a pitched
roof, and that’s what Kate was referring to. We came, our standard pitched roof and that got a
quick response that that doesn’t fit in, and Kathy said the same thing. Doesn’t fit in with the rest
of the development. So okay, let’s take the same materials. Try to make them different from the
other buildings, so we didn’t want to homogenize it. That’s another word. We didn’t want to
make it look homogenize. The whole thing is the same. I think when people look at this
building, will not say oh, that’s a Kwik Trip because it’s different from any other store we have
ever built. This will be an it. There’ll be no other store like this one. So that’s maybe good, but
maybe not far enough from what, you maybe wants to tie in some more elements from the other
buildings to make it look a little more like the other buildings but still maybe keep some
differences.
Todd Gerhardt: And I think that’s a philosophical discussion that the council has to have is, do
they want Kwik Trip as a part of this to look different than the rest of it. And I know you have a
branding. I know this is a little different but you’re still trying to get you know that Kwik Trip
image with the building.
Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I think one of the things that you know this kind of becomes a
little, mini community and one of the things that we’re looking at here is that, it’s easily
identifiable. You know it’s a community and I think one of the things that I tried to do also for
you is, you’ve got a bigger sign. You know that’s in recognition of the fact that because of the
type of business it is, you probably do need something more but by the same token, it should fit
in with the area, you know the way that it’s being developed and I guess we would like to see it
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
so that it looks like it was built at the same time and you don’t have these add on’s with, you
know every style being different.
Sam Van Tassel: I understand, and I appreciate the comment on the sign because we are two
distinct businesses. And the inside sales are food sales. We project another 2 or 3 years the
profit dollars from food sales will be greater than they are on fuel sales, and that’s how much our
business is changing. And that’s why this building is a 1,200 feet bigger than the other building
we just built only 6 years ago.
Mayor Furlong: And I will comment, and I don’t think I made a comment about the sign but I’m
glad that we did that adjustment and made it bigger. Made it similar, especially with the location
and the distance back from the curb. That was the right thing to do. So don’t take the fact that I
didn’t comment on it.
Sam Van Tassel: No, I understand.
Mayor Furlong: I think we offered as a good…so is it something that, right exactly. And I think
that will look good, and that will help with that identification.
Sam Van Tassel: We have to educate the public and that’s our charge really. When we were at
the neighborhood meeting there’s two gentlemen from Wisconsin. Grew up and raised in
Wisconsin. I said you know about milk in the bag don’t you? Oh, we love milk in the bag. I
told other people and what is milk in a bag? Well that’s our challenge. We’ve got to get the
message out there. We want to develop a loyalty to come to our store, not just as a gas station.
It’s there. It’s a Kwik Trip and we offer things that other people don’t. So that was really the
thrust…
Mayor Furlong: Well I guess if it is something that can be accomplished relatively quickly to
see if we can capture in a couple more elements and still try to accomplish what you’re doing,
which is keep some uniqueness and some identity.
Sam Van Tassel: Would you like us to try to put something together and bring it back to your
next meeting on the architectural elements?
Mayor Furlong: I would hope that it’d be quick because I don’t think it would take a lot.
Todd Gerhardt: You can bring this one back with the final plat. This is a subdivision so we can
incorporate it with the final plat.
Mayor Furlong: Isn’t it a site plan approval as well?
Todd Gerhardt: Yep. Well, this is site plan approval tonight but the final plat needs to come
back for council approval.
Mayor Furlong: No, is it? Because this would be more of a site plan issue, wouldn’t it? Than a
plat issue.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Todd Gerhardt: But we could bring it back together as two items.
Roger Knutson: You can bring back the site plan for this, for the Kwik Trip along with the final
plat.
Mike Korsh: No, no, no, no. Hang on a second.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, he’s got a deadline he’s trying to meet.
th
Mayor Furlong: Right, right. Right. I mean the deadline I saw here was the 18 of March that
we have to decide something so.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: I’m hoping that this could be something that maybe at our next meeting even
we could take a look at it. If it’s something that can be done that quickly, I don’t know. I don’t
want to.
Kate Aanenson: Is that something you want to direct staff to work through. Or do you want to
see those changes?
Mayor Furlong: I guess I’d like to see it if we could.
Todd Gerhardt: I don’t know why you couldn’t do it with the final plat. You can’t do it with
final plat?
Mayor Furlong: Is that possible to do that? I mean I appreciate your schedule and we’re trying
to keep you on it but.
Mike Korsh: Sure.
Mayor Furlong: Is that, is that time frame doable for you or?
Mike Korsh: Yeah.
Kate Aanenson: This is the one project that’s a go, is this. This is what’s driving the whole
thing is to get…
Mike Korsh: I’m not sure I understand if that’s going to slow us down at all for, I don’t know if
I know the word. Final plat.
Kate Aanenson: I think it may.
Mike Korsh: To get final plat so.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, they’re trying to turn it around to get the final plat done too so it’s kind
of pushing everything else.
Mike Korsh: Can we work with staff to try to.
Kate Aanenson: That was my original question but they would like to see it. That’s what I heard
so.
Mike Korsh: I guess my comment is, is that both Kathy and Sam’s architect worked with the
same materials to ensure that what you’re saying has been met, and I know that they look a little
bit different, and we probably had an equal amount of comments saying, why don’t you make
these buildings more different instead of, as opposed to more similar and we’ve sort of been
working through all those issues and people, you know some have kind of, the staff and everyone
else is talking about this because we spent a lot of time on this building trying to do exactly what
you’re saying. And there’s been a lot of different renditions and this is sort of what we came up
with as a compromise by everybody again. It’s a Kwik Trip that’s never been built before and
that was done solely to accommodate the city’s and the neighborhood’s wishes for a certain type
of building and that’s what we’ve, according to several architects and I guess some of the people
feel that we’ve sort of met that criteria already.
Mayor Furlong: Understand and I guess you know my only thought is, and maybe it is
something if they’re willing to work and take a look at it, you know and if the council’s
comfortable with, that the staff has an understanding where we’re going to try to keep this
moving, I can do that but I think we’d like to see some other things here so. Whether the entire
council wants to see it or whether they’re comfortable working with staff on this.
Kate Aanenson: Can I just get a clarification on the.
Mayor Furlong: We can move forward.
thth
Kate Aanenson: Because we have the 18. I believe your next meeting is the 24 so we’d have
to, I’m just looking at the applicant.
Mayor Furlong: We’d need an extension.
Kate Aanenson: Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Yep. And please so you understand too. This is a pretty big project. A lot of
work has gone into this. We’re very appreciative of all the work. We’re down to one or two
issues out of all the issues that you’ve been working on. It’s also the first time that we’ve seen it
and so we’re trying to work through it. Because so much good work has taken place before,
we’re only dealing with this one or two issues so. And if.
Kathy Anderson: I guess I was curious, you know if we could keep on the same schedule. I
think I certainly hear what you’re saying. That there are some details and elements that would
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
make the Kwik Trip fit in closer, and I think we can do that. But couldn’t we stay on the same
schedule and work through with Kate and Sharmeen and.
Mayor Furlong: And can we do that, I don’t know if, is this the bottle neck to the schedule time
line or are there other things that we can move forward and hold this for a couple more weeks or
4 weeks.
Todd Gerhardt: I still don’t understand Mayor why this couldn’t be done with the final plat. I
mean you could approve the site plan tonight contingent upon staff working with the architects to
work out the minor details on the Kwik Trip. And then when the final plat comes back, we
present you with those renditions that staff and the architect have come up with and then you
would approve those and then the final plat. We’re not changing your time schedule Mike.
You’re still moving ahead. There’s no risk in that.
Mayor Furlong: So are we just not approving the site plan for this one because the building is
not.
Todd Gerhardt: You’re approving the site plan tonight contingent upon final revisions of the
Kwik Trip and the car wash. Making sure that staff and the architect meet. Bring that back with
the final subdivision that you need, I mean you can’t do anything until you get the subdivision.
Mike Korsh: Right.
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Todd Gerhardt: And so bring it back at that point. Then we present you, you know include in
that final subdivision, the site plan for the Kwik Trip and the car wash.
Kate Aanenson: Correct, and the tie back is, as the City Attorney has always advised us, they’re
all tied together so under your site plan conditions, condition number 25 says approval of the site
plan is contingent upon the final plat. So it would all tie back together so you can’t do anything
without that so, as the City Manager recommended, I would just add another condition that says,
revisions to the Kwik Trip must be made prior to the, at the time of final plat because the site
plan approval is contingent upon final plat.
Mayor Furlong: So we’d make it a condition of the plat.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. If you go to the, all the motions start on, site plan is motion number,
starts on page 46 of 51. So if you were to go to the last page of those conditions. There’s some
that are specific to individual sites, which we can talk about that specific building but on page 49
of 51, condition number 25 says approval of the site plan is contingent upon the final plat. So
they’ve got some time for that yet.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Kate Aanenson: But then we have specific sites so if we want to put it under that specific site,
which I’m not sure we’ve got anything on Kwik Trip or not.
Mayor Furlong: You’re saying so this is still under the site plan approval?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. But, so we would say modifications need to be made to Kwik Trip,
and I need my little master. What number, that is number 4A. I was going to see if there’s
anything under 4A.
Mayor Furlong: Because once we approve the site plan, that doesn’t come back, right?
Kate Aanenson: But it says the site plan is not approval because there is a condition already in
there. Condition 25 says, it’s not approved until you approve the final plat. So it’s in a holding
pattern.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and so should this be part of a condition on the final plat then? Is it a
condition of approval of for the plat? To tie it back. I’m concerned. I’m trying to understand I
guess. Not concerned.
Kate Aanenson: Well the condition today is going to say that modifications must be made to the
Kwik Trip to be consistent with the overall theme…
Roger Knutson: It’d be a condition you’d put in your site plan.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Roger Knutson: And then in your condition of final plat approval, or preliminary approval you
would say, that final site plan detail must be brought back with the final plat.
Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Kate Aanenson: So Mayor, there is under 25, there’s conditions to individual sites. The first site
that we address that conditions need to be made are 4A. Building 4A, which is Kwik Trip. This
one up here. So if you follow along with me, I’m on page 49. Condition (a). So if it’s Building
4A, which is known as the convenience store/gas station, we’ve got conditions for site plan
parochial to that issue. But this is where I’d recommend that you add your architectural issue.
Mayor Furlong: Insert some language with regard to, and.
Kathy Anderson: Maybe architectural detailing more consistent with the rest of the buildings?
Mayor Furlong: Working with staff.
Councilman McDonald: Working with staff to make the architectural detailing more consistent
with the rest of the development.
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Mayor Furlong: Okay.
Councilwoman Ernst: And I do have some concerns on that because we’re talking about
making, I just for clarification purposes, talking about making Kwik Trip more consistent with
the rest of the architecture. But I mean I thought our concern was really to address the stand
alone car wash and.
Kate Aanenson: It’s both. It’s 4A includes everything on that.
Councilwoman Ernst: So, I mean I personally like the Kwik Trip.
Mayor Furlong: Well and again, I think it’s the car wash. It’s the Kwik Trip together.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: So it’d be 4A is both of them.
Kate Aanenson: Right, if you look at.
Councilwoman Ernst: So I just want to make sure that we’re not going to make the Kwik Trip
look more like the car wash.
Councilman Litsey: No.
Mayor Furlong: I think I’m looking at elements of those buildings and it’s elements.
Councilman McDonald: I think 4A becomes more like all the others. 4B, 4C, 4D, 4F.
Mayor Furlong: And I’m not looking for identical, but some more elements to take away some
of the boxy feel. Okay.
Todd Gerhardt: Mayor can I just.
Mayor Furlong: Yep.
Todd Gerhardt: Have one clarification. The reason the site plan is mentioned in the subdivision
is having the site plan incorporated with the subdivision allows us to enforce the conditions of
that site plan. So that’s why we incorporate the site plan into the subdivision.
Mayor Furlong: Great. I don’t see this as a.
Todd Gerhardt: Our teeth into it.
Mayor Furlong: This is not an insurmountable issue here. This is hopefully.
Todd Gerhardt: I just to clarify…trying to understand why it’s going in the subdivision.
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Mayor Furlong: …and I appreciate that. So we’re comfortable we can get.
Todd Gerhardt: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: And we’ve got it?
Kate Aanenson: Yep.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So you’ve got language there so there’ll be something on condition 1.
Or under conditions for specific, you’ve got some language there. And do we need different
language or is it already in there as far as the tie?
Roger Knutson: It’s tied in.
Mayor Furlong: It is tied already within everything?
Kate Aanenson: Yep. Yeah.
Mayor Furlong: Alright. Okay, now my next item. No, just kidding.
Councilman Litsey: Moving right along.
Mayor Furlong: No, I think that’s good and so I think we’ll also take and do the clean up the
language with regard to the usage that we talked about.
Kate Aanenson: Correct. As so stated.
Mayor Furlong: Do we do that now as well? I assume. Any other comments or thoughts on this
or? We’re kind of moving into re-writing this so I’ll make sure everybody has a chance to
express their ideas.
Councilman McDonald: Well I support what it is you’re doing. It’s kind of a nuance but when
you draw attention to it and you begin to look at it, it does begin to stand out that wait a minute.
This doesn’t quite blend in. It’s just little things. Not a big deal but it’s little things that kind of
add up so I would support your direction on this.
Mayor Furlong: Well why don’t we move into then, if everybody’s comfortable with this, let’s
move into the motions. We have 4 of them, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: That’s correct.
Mayor Furlong: And begin on page 35 of the staff report, or 250 of the electronic file. And let’s
work with these individually and make sure we get them. If we want to deal with them in a
single vote, I think we can, but I want to make sure we present each one individually and we get
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whatever modifications are required from staff and so, would somebody like to start with the
Planned Unit Development amendment?
Councilman McDonald: I’ll start with that.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you.
Councilman McDonald: I’ll make a motion that the City Council approves the Planned Unit
Development amendment in the attached ordinance for Chanhassen Gateway clarifying setbacks,
signage, and retail building size incorporating the changes as shown below, and that’s I guess (a)
through (m), and including the attached Findings of Fact and recommendations.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, thank you. Do we need any modi, we needed some.
Roger Knutson: Mayor?
Mayor Furlong: Yes sir.
Roger Knutson: I think on permitted uses, the seventh bullet is it? Neighborhood scale
commercial.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Roger Knutson: That should be amended consistent with the discussion previously had. I can
read that if you’d like.
Mayor Furlong: Please.
Roger Knutson: No tenant in any building may occupy more than 8,000 square feet except in
Building 4C and 4G. In Building 4C and 4G a tenant may occupy no more than 10,000 square
feet. The liquor store may not occupy more than 60% of the total area of Building 4G.
Mayor Furlong: And are we keeping in the sentence that says no individual service component
of a retail building shall occupy more than 8,000 square feet of the building?
Roger Knutson: You want that in?
Kate Aanenson: Yes.
Roger Knutson: Okay, we’ll leave that in.
Mayor Furlong: So that’s still in. So really you modified the first and second sentences.
Roger Knutson: I took out the first and second sentences and replaced them with what I read.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Thank you. Mr. McDonald, you’re comfortable with that?
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Councilman McDonald: I’m comfortable with that. I accept it.
Todd Gerhardt: We’ll call you.
Mayor Furlong: Sure we got that. Was there anything else under this?
Councilman Litsey: That should cover it I think.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Then let’s, we’ll go to staff’s recommendations on the signs and then
we’ll come back to that. Part of the overall. Let’s go to number 2 then. The variance. Mr.
McDonald. We’ll do these as a single motion. Just work through them individually.
Councilman McDonald: Okay. I’ve got to scroll down it.
Mayor Furlong: Page 257 electronically or 40. Down near the bottom.
s
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Number 2. The variance. The City Council approve variance
request #08-01 to allow a 20-foot setback from Lyman Boulevard and a 20-foot setback from
Highway 101, as shown in plans dated received January 18, 2008 and including the attached
Findings of Fact and recommendations with the following conditions. Looks like number 1.
Mayor Furlong: That’s correct. No modification required there. Want to go to 3?
s
Councilman McDonald: Okay. Number 3. Subdivision. The City Council approve the
preliminary plat for Planning Case 08-01 for Crossroads of Chanhassen as shown in plans dated
received January 18, 2008, and including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation
subject to the following conditions number 1 through 29.
Todd Gerhardt: 29.
Kate Aanenson: Mayor, those are the two subdivision ones we did hand out for corrections, if I
might for the record.
Mayor Furlong: Those are here?
Kate Aanenson: Correct. Number 4. The amount of the stormwater fees was reduced to $1,000.
Excuse me, $186,153. And then number 24. The first sentence modified, the access drive to 26 feet
was struck.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then the next change for the next motion, is that correct?
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. So we’re comfortable then with 3? No more changes required on that for
what we’ve discussed tonight? Okay. Then number 4. Site plan approval.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
s
Councilman McDonald: Number 4. The City Council approve the seven site plans consisting of
a 5,300 square-foot convenience store with gas pumps and a 2,805 square-foot car wash (Buildings
4A), a multi-tenant building with an area of 11,000 square feet (Building 4B), a two-story multi-
tenant building with a first floor area of 13,800 square feet and second floor area of 15,000
square feet (Building 4C), a one-story retail building with an area of 8,000 square feet (Building
4D), a 5,000 square-foot bank with drive-thru window (Building 4E), a 3,400 square-foot retail
building (Building 4F), and a 10,000 square- foot Deli and Liquor Store (Building 4G), Planning
Case 08-01 for Crossroads of Chanhassen as shown in plans dated received January 18, 2008,
and including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation subject to the following
conditions, which should be 1 through 25. And 25 also has additional conditions attached to that
which would be 1 through 8. And I believe that’s where you would want to make a change.
Mayor Furlong: Okay, and so how do we?
Roger Knutson: Mayor, I believe you were talking about making an addition to paragraph on 25,
or condition 25. That would say, the site plan for the, what is the, Kate what is the number?
Kate Aanenson: Can I just clarify? Can we go under 1, just for your clarification. The specific
conditions for 4A, which is the gas station, car wash and the canopy. So if we could put the
condition for improve the architecture under that specific site.
Councilman McDonald: It’d be 1(h).
Kate Aanenson: So 1, actually it’d be (h), (i), (j), so it might be (k).
Councilman McDonald: (k), I’m sorry.
Kate Aanenson: That’s alright. So 1(k) would read something like, that the staff will work with
the applicant to improve the architecture in the buildings, including the car wash, and the gas
station to make them more compatible with the other buildings.
Roger Knutson: And then you could add, because it’s not in 25, just to make it abundantly clear
that this detail must be brought back at the time of final plat approval for approval by the City
Council.
Mayor Furlong: That would be under that same condition?
Roger Knutson: Yes.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. And then there was also a modification, what’s this one here Kate? The
third page of the handout. Did we get that in already?
Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I’m sorry. That one should be noted too. So that would be, actually
we’re on the same page, right above it on (j). Instead of 10 fee it should say 5 feet. I’m sorry I
missed that one completely. So that would be 1(j) under 25.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Mayor Furlong: So (j) under Building 4A.
Kate Aanenson: Correct.
Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Anything else on any of these? Thank you. We have a motion
before us. Is there a second?
Councilman Litsey: Second.
Mayor Furlong: Would you like a re-reading of the motion?
Councilman Litsey: I don’t know that I dare ask that. I’m just glad somebody made it.
Mayor Furlong: Motion’s been made and seconded. Any discussion on this? I’ll just make a
quick comment. We got kind of bogged down and I think it took away from the chance for some
of us to talk about how pleased we are with all the work. I think I made some comments but this
is going to be an asset to our city. It is going to provide some much needed retail, convenience
retail, neighborhood retail south of Highway 5 for our residents that currently live in that part of
our city, and that the many that will move into this area so this is, I think this is clearly going to
be an asset to the city. I know it’s going to be an asset to the area and I want to make painfully
clear how much we appreciate everybody’s efforts. Both from the staff, the Planning
Commission, the neighborhood, the applicants and everybody working together to get this done.
We’re very grateful.
Councilman McDonald: I would second that.
Mayor Furlong: Thank you. With that, is there any other discussion?
Councilman Litsey: No, it’s a very impressive development. Thank you.
Councilwoman Ernst: Nice job.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council
approves the Planned Unit Development amendment in the attached ordinance for
Chanhassen Gateway clarifying setbacks, signage, and retail building size incorporating
the changes as shown below (amendments are shown in bold), and including the attached
Findings of Fact and Recommendation:
CHANHASSEN GATEWAY
PUD DEVELOPMENT DESIGN STANDARDS
a. Intent
The purpose of this zone is to create a MIXED USE PUD including a
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, OFFICE AND RESIDENTIAL. The use of the
PUD zone is to allow for more flexible design standards while creating a higher quality
and more sensitive development. Each structure proposed for development shall proceed
Exhibit A
through site plan review based on the development standards outlined below.
reflects the site layout and buildings as referenced herein.
b. Permitted Uses
?
The permitted uses in this zone should be limited to appropriate commercial and
service uses consistent with meeting the daily needs of the neighborhood. The uses
shall be limited to those as defined herein. If there is a question as to whether or not a
use meets the definition, the Community Development Director shall make that
interpretation. The type of uses to be provided on these lots shall be low intensity
neighborhood oriented retail and service establishments to meet daily needs of
residents. Commercial and office uses shall be limited to the area located south of
Highway 212. Residential uses shall be located north of Highway 212 and along the
western portion of the southern half.
?
Small to medium-sized restaurant-not to exceed 8,000 square feet per building (no
except drive-thru windows are allowed for tenants whose
drive-thru windows
primary use is the sale of coffee. The drive-thru lane shall be screened and the
exterior wall of the drive-thru shall contain the same level of architectural detail
as any other elevation visible by the public.
?
Banks with a drive-in service window
?
Office
?
Day care
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
?
Neighborhood scale commercial: No tenant in any building may occupy more than
8,000 square feet except in Buildings 4C and 4G. In Buildings 4C and 4G a tenant
may occupy no more than 10,000 square feet. The liquor store may not occupy more
than 60% of the total area of Building 4G. No individual service component of a
retail building shall occupy more than 8,000 square feet of the building
?
and car wash.
Convenience store with or without gas pumps
?
Specialty retail (Book Store, Jewelry, Sporting Goods Sale/Rental, Retail Sales,
Retail Shops, Apparel Sales, etc.)
?
Personal Services(an establishment or place of business primarily engaged in
providing individual services generally related to personal needs, such as a Tailor
Shop, Shoe Repair, Self-Service Laundry, Laundry Pick-up Station, Dry Cleaning,
Dance Studios, etc).
?
Residential High Density (8-16 units per net acre). The total number of units for the
entire site may not exceed 150 units.
c. Building Area
?
Commercial/Office – Not to exceed 75,000 square feet for the entire development
?
Maximum Commercial/Office lot usage is a Floor Area Ratio of 0.3
?
Maximum office/commercial building area per tenant may not exceed 8,000 square
feet
?
Maximum residential units may not exceed 150 units.
d. Prohibited Ancillary Uses
?
, coffee shops
Drive-thru Windows except banks or pharmacies.
?
such as propane, salt, window washer
Outdoor storage and display of merchandise
fluid, etc. except on the sidewalk surrounding the convenience store 4A. The
outdoor display of merchandise shall not impede nor interfere with pedestrian
traffic.
e. Setbacks
The PUD ordinance requires setbacks from roadways and exterior property lines. The
following table displays those setbacks.
Boundary Building/ Parking
Setbacks (feet)
Lyman Boulevard 20/20
Highway 101 North of Highway 312 50/50
Highway 101 South of Highway 312 20/20
Highway 312 50/50
Northerly Project Property Line 50/20
Westerly Project Property Line 50/20
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
Boundary Building/ Parking
Setbacks (feet)
Internal Project property lines 0 /0
Internal Right-of-Way (Crossroads Boulevard) 20/20
Hard Surface Coverage-Residential 50 %
Commercial and Office Hard Surface Coverage 70 %
Maximum Commercial (Retail) Building/Structure Height 1 story
Maximum Office Building/Structure Height 2 stories
Maximum Residential Building/Structure Height 35 or 3 stories,
whichever is less
f. Non Residential Building Materials and Design
There shall not be underdeveloped backsides of buildings. All elevations shall receive
nearly equal treatment and visual qualities. Buildings and site design shall comply with
design standards outlined in Article XXIII. General Supplemental Regulations, Division
7 of the Zoning Ordinance.
g. Residential Standards
Buildings and site design shall comply with design standards outlined in Article XXIII.
General Supplemental Regulations, Division 9 of the Zoning Ordinance.
1.All units shall have access onto an interior private street.
2.A design palette shall be approved for the entire project. The palette shall include
colors for siding, shakes, shutters, shingles, brick, stone, etc.
3.All foundation walls shall be screened by landscaping or retaining walls.
h. Site Landscaping and Screening
The intent of this section is to improve the appearance of vehicular use areas and property
abutting public rights-of-way; to require buffering between different land uses; and to
protect, preserve and promote the aesthetic appeal, character and value of the surrounding
neighborhoods; to promote public health and safety through the reduction of noise
pollution, air pollution, visual pollution and glare.
1.The landscaping standards shall provide for screening for visual impacts associated
with a given use, including but not limited to, truck loading areas, trash storage,
parking lots, Large unadorned building massing, etc.
2.Each lot for development shall submit a separate landscaping plan as a part of the site
plan review process.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
3.All open spaces and non-parking lot surfaces, except for plaza areas, shall be
landscaped, rockscaped, or covered with plantings and/or lawn material. Tree wells
shall be included in pedestrian areas and plazas.
312
4.Undulating berms, north of Lyman Boulevard, north and south of Highway and
west of Highway 101 shall be sodded or seeded at the conclusion of grading and utility
construction. The required buffer landscaping may be installed where it is deemed
necessary to screen any proposed development. All required boulevard landscaping
shall be sodded.
5.Loading areas shall be screened from public right-of-ways. Wing walls may be required
where deemed appropriate.
6.Native species shall be incorporated into site landscaping, whenever possible.
i. Street Furnishings
Benches, kiosks, trash receptacles, planters and other street furnishings should be of
design and materials consistent with the character of the area. Wherever possible, street
furnishings should be consolidated to avoid visual clutter and facilitate pedestrian
movement.
j. Signage
The intent of this section is to establish an effective means of communication in the
development, maintain and enhance the aesthetic environment and the business’s ability
to attract sources of economic development and growth, to improve pedestrian and traffic
safety, to minimize the possible adverse effect of signs on nearby public and private
property, and to enable the fair and consistent enforcement of these sign regulations. It is
the intent of this section, to promote the health, safety, general welfare, aesthetics, and
image of the community by regulating signs that are intended to communicate to the
public, and to use signs which meet the city's goals:
a.Establish standards which permit businesses a reasonable and equitable opportunity to
advertise their name and service;
b.Preserve and promote civic beauty, and prohibit signs which detract from this
objective because of size, shape, height, location, condition, cluttering or
illumination;
c.Ensure that signs do not create safety hazards;
d.Ensure that signs are designed, constructed, installed and maintained in a manner that
does not adversely impact public safety or unduly distract motorists;
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
e.Preserve and protect property values;
f.Ensure signs that are in proportion to the scale of, and are architecturally compatible
with, the principal structures;
g.Limit temporary commercial signs and advertising displays which provide an
opportunity for grand opening and occasional sales events while restricting signs
which create continuous visual clutter and hazards at public right-of-way
intersections.
j.1. Project Identification Sign
One project identification sign for the commercial portion of the development located at
the entrance off of Highway 101. Project identification signs shall not exceed 80square
feet in sign display area nor be greater than eight feet in height. The sign shall be setback
a minimum of 10 feet from the property line.
As an alternative, the project identification sign may be located at the southeast corner of
Lot 2, Block 1. If the sign is located in the right-of-way, an encroachment agreement
must be obtained. Otherwise, the sign must maintain a 10 foot setback from property
lines and may not exceed 24 square feet nor be higher than 5 feet.
j.2. Monument Sign
One monument sign shall be permitted at the entrance to the development off of Lake
Susan Drive. One monument sign per lot shall be permitted for the commercial portion
of the site. One multi-tenant sign shall be permitted at the entrance into the development
off of Highway 101 and two signs off of Lyman Boulevard. These signs shall not exceed
except Kwik Trip,
24 square feet in sign display area nor be greater than 5 feet in height
located on Lot 1, Block 1, shall be permitted a 48 square-foot, 8-foot high monument
sign. These signs must comply with all ordinances pertaining to size and percent of
sign area dedicated to gas prices as well as any other applicable regulations.
These
signs shall be set back a minimum of 10 feet from the property line.
j.3. Wall Signs
a.The location of letters and logos shall be restricted to the approved building sign
parapet height
bands, the tops of which shall not extend above . The letters and logos
shall be restricted to a maximum of 30 inches in height. All individual letters and logos
comprising each sign shall be constructed of wood, metal, ortranslucent facing.
Second story
b.illuminated signs that can be viewed from neighborhoods outside the
PUD site, are prohibited.
c.Tenant signage shall consist of store identification only. Copy is restricted to the
tenant’s proper name and major product or service offered. Corporate logos,
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
emblems and similar identifying devices are permitted provided they are confined
within the signage band and do not occupy more than 15% of the sign area unless the
logo is the sign.
d.Wall signs are limited to two elevations per building.
j.4. Festive Flags/Banners
a.Flags and banners shall be permitted on approved standards attached to the building
facade and on standards attached to pedestrian area lighting.
b.Flags and banners shall be constructed of fabric or vinyl.
c.Banners shall not contain advertising for individual users, businesses, services, or
products.
d.Flags and banners shall project from buildings a maximum of two feet.
e.Flags and banners shall have a maximum area of 10 square feet.
f.Flags and banners which are torn or excessively worn shall be removed at the request
of the city.
j.5. Building Directory
a.In multi-tenant buildings, one building directory sign may be permitted. The
directory sign shall not exceed eight square feet.
j.6 Directional Signs
a.On-premises signs shall not be larger than four (4) square feet. The maximum height
of the sign shall not exceed five (5) feet from the ground. The placement of
directional signs on the property shall be so located such that the sign does not
adversely affect adjacent properties (including site lines or confusion of adjoining
ingress or egress) or the general appearance of the site from public rights-of-way. No
more than four (4) signs shall be allowed per lot. The city council may allow
additional signs in situations where access is confusing or traffic safety could be
jeopardized.
b.Off-premises signs shall be allowed only in situations where access is confusing and
traffic safety could be jeopardized or traffic could be inappropriately routed through
residential streets. The size of the sign shall be no larger than what is needed to
effectively view the sign from the roadway and shall be approved by the city council.
c.Bench signs are prohibited except at transit stops as authorized by the local transit
authority.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
d.Signs and Graphics. Wherever possible, traffic control, directional and other public
signs should be consolidated and grouped with other street fixtures and furnishings to
reduce visual clutter and to facilitate vehicular and pedestrian movement. A system of
directional signs should also be established to direct traffic within the commercial
area and away from residential areas.
j.7.Prohibited Signs
?
Pylon signs are prohibited.
?
Back lit awnings are prohibited.
?
Window Signs are prohibited except for company logo/symbol and not the name.
Such logo shall not exceed 10% of a window area.
?
Menu Signs are prohibited.
j.8. Sign Design and Permit Requirements
a.The sign treatment is an element of the architecture and thus should reflect the quality
of the development. The signs should be consistent in color, size, and material and
height throughout the development. A common theme will be introduced at the
development's entrance monument and will be used throughout.
b.All signs require a separate sign permit.
c.Wall business signs shall comply with the city’s sign ordinance for the Neighborhood
business district for determination of maximum sign area. Wall signs may be
permitted on the “street” front and primary parking lot front of each building.
k. Lighting
1. Lighting for the interior of the development shall be consistent throughout the
development. High pressure sodium vapor lamps with decorative natural colored pole shall
be used throughout the development parking lot area for lighting. Decorative, pedestrian
scale lighting shall be used in plaza and sidewalk areas and may be used in parking lot
Parking lot light poles may not exceed 25 feet in height.
areas.
in areas other than parking lots
2. Light fixtures should be kept to a pedestrian scale
(12 to 18 feet). Street light fixtures should accommodate vertical banners for use in
identifying the commercial area.
3. All light fixtures shall be shielded. Light level for site lighting shall be no more than
½ foot candle at the project perimeter property line. This does not apply to street
lighting.
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
4. Lighting for parking areas shall minimize the use of lights on pole standards in the
parking area. Rather, emphasis should be placed on building lights and poles located in
close proximity to buildings.
l. Non Residential Parking
1.Parking shall be provided based on the shared use of parking areas whenever
possible. Cross access easements and the joint use of parking facilities shall be
protected by a recorded instrument acceptable to the city.
2.The development shall be treated as an integrated shopping center and provide a
minimum of one space per 200 square feet of commercial/retail area. The
office/personal service component shall be treated as an integrated office building and
provide 4.5 space per 1,000 square feet for the first 49,999 square feet, four per
thousand square feet for the second 50,000 square feet, and 3.5 per thousand square
feet thereafter.
m. Residential Parking shall comply with city code requirements.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council
approves variance request #08-01 to allow a 20-foot setback from Lyman Boulevard and a
20-foot setback from Highway 101, as shown in plans dated received January 18, 2008 and
including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation with the following condition:
1.Approval of the variance applications is contingent upon approval of the final plat,
site plan and the PUD amendment – Planning Case 2008-01.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council
approves the preliminary plat for Planning Case 08-01 for Crossroads of Chanhassen as
shown in plans dated received January 18, 2008, and including the attached Findings of
Fact and Recommendation, subject to the following conditions:
1.Full park fees in lieu of parkland dedication shall be collected in full at the rate in force upon
final plat submission and approval.
2.The width of the sidewalk located west of Highway 101 shall be increased to 8 feet.
3.Encroachment agreements are required for any extensive landscaping or signage and
sidewalk proposed.
4.At this time, the estimated total SWMP fee, due payable to the City at the time of final plat
$186,153.00
recording, is .
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
5.Erosion control blanket shall be installed on all slopes greater than or equal to 3:1. All
exposed soil areas shall have temporary erosion protection or permanent cover year round,
according to the following table of slopes and time frames:
Type of Slope Time (Maximum time an area can
Steeper than 3:1 7 days remain open when the area
10:1 to 3:1 14 days is not actively being worked.)
Flatter than 10:1 21 days
These areas include constructed storm water management pond side slopes, and any exposed
soil areas with a positive slope to a storm water conveyance system, such as a curb and gutter
system, storm sewer inlet, temporary or permanent drainage ditch or other natural or man
made systems that discharge to a surface water.
6.The proposed stormwater pond shall be constructed prior to disturbing up-gradient areas and
used as a temporary sediment basin during mass grading. Diversion berms/ditches may be
needed to divert water to the pond and a temporary pond outlet shall be provided. The outlet
could be a temporary perforated standpipe and rock cone. The plans shall be revised to
include a detail for the temporary pond outlet.
7.The applicant shall locate all boulevard trees behind the sidewalk along the public street.
Trees are not permitted between the sidewalk and the street.
8.The applicant must submit a landscape plan with a complete Plant Schedule and all species
and quantities noted on the plan.
9.Resize the pond to the required dead storage. Lower the normal water level (NWL) of the
pond to 908.0. MnDOT requirements regarding the rate to the wetland and the bounce of the
wetland must still be met.
10.The proposed storm sewer will need to be adjusted. High points on the public street should
be located near the access points to allow better sight distance. Resize the pond to minimum
requirements to allow the county storm to remain in place. Rational method calculations are
needed for the sizing of the storm sewer.
11.The grading plan needs to be revised. The HWL listed on the plans does not match the
hydrologic calculations. The drainage calculations need to be reorganized. Revise the outlet
to the wetland so that the flared end section is adjacent to the wetland buffer. Show
emergency overflows on the plan.
12.If importing or exporting material for development of the site is necessary, the applicant will
be required to supply the City with detailed haul routes.
13.Remove or lower the retaining wall along the existing watermain. The dead storage in the
pond is oversized. Changes in grading and removing some of the excess dead storage should
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City Council Meeting - March 10, 2008
allow the wall to be removed in this area.
14.Building permits are required for all retaining walls four feet tall or higher and must be
designed by a Structural Engineer registered in the State of Minnesota.
15.The sanitary sewer, storm sewer, and watermain within the public right-of-way and along the
Old Highway 101 corridor shall be publicly owned and maintained. All other utilities shall
be covered by a cross-access agreement. The proposed watermain must wet tap the existing
watermain.
16.Utility plans shall show both plan view and profiles of all utilities (sanitary sewer, water, and
storm sewer lines.
17.Determine actual elevations of existing utilities. A minimum vertical separation of 18 inches
is required at all storm, sanitary, and watermain crossings. Also, provide 10 feet of
horizontal separation between storm, sanitary and watermain. Any gas, electric, cable, or
telephone located outside of a public easement must be relocated.
18.Each new lot is subject to the sanitary sewer and water hookup charges. The 2008 trunk
hookup charge is $1,769 for sanitary sewer and $4,799 for watermain. Sanitary sewer and
watermain hookup fees may be specially assessed against the parcel at the time of building
permit issuance. All of these charges are based on the number of SAC units assigned by the
Met Council and are due at the time of building permit issuance.
19.All of the utility improvements are required to be constructed in accordance with the City's
latest edition of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates. The applicant is also required to
enter into a development contract with the City and supply the necessary financial security in
the form of a letter of credit or cash escrow to guarantee installation of the improvements and
the conditions of final plat approval. The applicant must be aware that all public utility
improvements will require a preconstruction meeting before building permit issuance.
Permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies will be required, including the MPCA,
Dept. of Health, Carver County, Watershed District and MnDOT.
20.A drainage and utility easement of 20 feet is required over the existing county storm sewer.
Remove the drainage and utility easements from the private utilities and cover these with
cross-access agreements.
21.The developer will need to work with the City and MnDOT to acquire access to the site and
acquire the land from Old Highway 101.
22.Access to the site must be via a public street designed to Minnesota State Aid Standards.
This street will be maintained by the City. The public street connection on Highway 101
must align with the lanes provided with the off ramp of Highway 212. Survey existing lanes
to ensure that the proposed lanes will line up with existing. The public street must be named
and the name found acceptable by the City. Modify the right-of-way at intersection of
Lyman Boulevard and the public street to accommodate the trail. No parking will be allowed
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on this public street. Add no parking signs to plans.
23.Upon completion of the public street, the applicant shall submit a set of “as-built” plans
signed by a professional engineer.
24.Remove any objects placed in the horizontal sight triangles of the intersections. A
commercial drive entrance shall be added to each connection with the public road matching
City Detail 5207.
25.Collector and Arterial Roadway Traffic Impact Zone fees will be collected with the final plat.
The fee will be based on the commercial rate of $3,600 per acre.
26.The preliminary plat needs to be adjusted. Fix the text error for Parcel 3 and determine why
the boundary does not close.
27.Encroachment agreements are required before the construction of the signs within the
drainage and utility easements. Shift the pylon sign 10 feet south of its current location to
allow room for the pond access road.
28.All outstanding assessments must be paid prior to final plat.
29.A left turn lane leading into the Kwik Trip site located on Lot 1, Block 1, shall be added to the
Crossroads Boulevard design.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Councilman McDonald moved, Councilman Litsey seconded that the City Council
approves the seven site plans consisting of a 5,300 square-foot convenience store with gas
pumps and a 2,805 square-foot car wash (Buildings 4A), a multi-tenant building with an area
of 11,000 square feet (Building 4B), a two-story multi-tenant building with a first floor area
of 13,800 square feet and second floor area of 15,000 square feet (Building 4C), a one-story
retail building with an area of 8,000 square feet (Building 4D), a 5,000 square-foot bank
with drive-thru window (Building 4E), a 3,400 square-foot retail building (Building 4F),
and a 10,000 square- foot Deli and Liquor Store (Building 4G), Planning Case 08-01 for
Crossroads of Chanhassen as shown in plans dated received January 18, 2008, and
including the attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation, subject to the following
conditions:
Conditions common to all site plans:
1.All landscape islands must have a minimum interior width of 10 feet.
2.Staff recommends that Cornell structural soil be used in all parking lot islands.
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3.The applicant shall increase canopy trees within the east and south bufferyards to meet
minimum requirements.
4.The applicant must submit a landscape plan with a complete Plant Schedule and all species
and quantities noted on the plan.
5.The applicant shall remove Norway maple and Colorado spruce from the Plant Schedule. All
species of ash will only be allowed in minimal quantities.
6.A wetland buffer 16.5 feet in width and a 30-foot setback from the wetland buffer must be
maintained around Wetland 1. Secondary structures are allowed to encroach up to 50% of
the setback. It appears that the retaining wall has exceeded the allowed encroachment and
should be moved. Wetland buffer areas shall be preserved, surveyed and staked in accordance
with the City’s wetland ordinance. The applicant must install wetland buffer edge signs, under
the direction of City staff, before construction begins and must pay the City $20 per sign.
7.A vegetation management plan needs to be developed for the buffer. Currently the buffer is
dominated by reed canary grass and agricultural weeds. The buffer for a Manage 3 wetland
must have, at a minimum, 50% dominance of native plant species.
8.A NPDES Phase II Construction Site Storm Water Permit will be required from the
Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (MPCA) for this site. A Storm Water Pollution
Prevention Plan (SWPPP) has been developed and submitted to the appropriate agencies for
review. The Carver Soil and Water Conservation District is to be invited to the
preconstruction meeting for the project.
9.It shall be noted on the SWPPP that all areas that will not be permanently stabilized within
the timeframe required by the NPDES permit shall be temporary mulched and seeded. A
note shall be included in the dewatering section of the SWPPP that states: “If construction of
the proposed temporary/permanent sediment pond is not completed prior to dewatering, the
City’s on-site construction observer must approve proposed dewatering methods prior to
beginning dewatering.”
10.All silt fence that is not laid parallel to the contours, or that have a continuous run greater
than 300 feet, shall have J Hooks installed every 50 -75 feet. This shall be noted on the plans
and discussed at the preconstruction meeting.
11.Energy dissipation shall be provided at the inlet to the proposed pond and at the end of the
discharge pipe that outlets to the wetland within 24 hours of pipe installation. The discharge
location for the outlet of the proposed pond shall be evaluated to ensure that the proposed
discharge will not cause erosion issues. Reinforced erosion control matting may be required.
12.A stable emergency overflow (EOF) for the stormwater pond shall be provided. The EOF
could consist of riprap and geotextile fabric or a turf reinforcement mat (a permanent erosion
control blanket). A typical detail shall be included in the plan. The overland route from the
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EOF shall be shown on the plan set.
13.Inlet protection may be needed prior to installation of the castings for the curbside catch
basins. In that case, all storm sewer inlets shall be protected by at least fabric draped over the
manhole with a steel plate holding the fabric in place.
14.The plans shall be revised to show a 75-foot rock construction entrance wherever construction
traffic will access the site. The rock construction entrance shall be constructed in accordance
with Chanhassen’s Standard Detail 5301. Street cleaning of soil tracked onto public streets shall
include daily street scraping and street sweeping as needed.
15.In the event that dewatering is needed, the field inspector shall be contacted prior to any
dewatering activities.
16.All diversions necessary to direct stormwater flow to the temporary basin shall be clearly
indicated on the plan.
17.A concrete washout area needs to be shown on the plan.
18.A detail for the temporary pond outlet needs to be included in the plan.
19.The applicant shall apply for and obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies (e.g.,
Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (for
dewatering)) and comply with their conditions of approval.
20.Make a notation in the SWPPP that the contractor with overall day-to-day responsibilities of
the project/General Contractor must be the contractor for the NPDES permit. The applicant
needs to have an individual qualified to complete stormwater inspection reports weekly, and
after each one-half inch rainfall event. A box will need to be placed on site for these specific
documents.
21.Cross-access and cross-parking agreements shall submitted to the City for approval and
recording.
22. Fire Marshal Conditions:
a.An additional fire hydrant (one) will be required near the car wash. Contact Chanhassen
Fire Marshal for exact location.
b.The 4-inch water line shown for the gas station and car wash is required to be a minimum
of 6 inches per NFPA 13 Sec.15.1.3.1.
c.Contact Chanhassen Fire Marshal for locations of NO PARKING FIRE LANE signs, and
curbing to be painted yellow. Per MSFC Sec. 503.3.
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d.A 3-foot clear space shall be maintained around the circumference of fire hydrants except
as otherwise required or approved. Per MSFC Sec. 508.5.5.
e.Posts, fences, vehicles, growth, trash, storage and other materials shall not be placed or
kept near fire hydrants, fire department inlet connections or fire protection system control
valves in a manner that would prevent such equipment or fire hydrants from being
immediately discernible. The fire department shall not be deterred or hindered from
gaining immediate access to fire protection equipment or fire hydrants Per MSFC Sec.
508.5.4.
f.When fire apparatus access roads or a water supply for fire protection is required to be
installed, such protection shall be installed and made serviceable prior to and during the
time of construction, except when approved alternate methods of protection are
provided. Temporary street signs shall be installed at each intersection when
construction of new roadways allows passage by vehicles in accordance with section
505.2 of the MN. State Fire Code. Per Sec. 501.4.
23. Building Official Conditions:
a.The buildings are required to have automatic fire extinguishing systems.
b.Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the
State of Minnesota.
c.Retaining walls over four feet high must be designed by a professional engineer and a
permit must be obtained prior to construction.
d.Structure proximity to property lines (and other buildings) will have an impact on the
code requirements for the proposed buildings, including but not limited to: allowable
size, protected openings and fire-resistive construction. These requirements will be
addressed when complete building and site plans are submitted.
e.Detailed occupancy related requirements will be addressed when complete building
plans are submitted.
f.The owner and or their representative shall meet with the Inspections Division as
soon as possible to discuss property line issues as well as plan review and permit
procedures.
24.All rooftop and ground equipment must be screened from views.
25.Approval of the site plan applications is contingent upon approval of the final plat, variance
and the PUD amendment – Planning Case 2008-01.
Conditions specific to individual sites:
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1.Building 4A with an area of 5,300 square feet convenience store, gas pumps and a 2,805
square-foot car wash located on Lot 1, Block 1.
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a.The monument sign may not exceed square feet in area nor be higher than feet. The
sign shall be located 10 feet from the property line.
b.No more than two signs are permitted on the convenience store and one sign on the
east
carwash buildings. Signs on the convenience store shall be limited to the north and
elevation. Sign on the carwash shall be limited to the east elevation.
c.Outdoor storage of merchandise may be permitted on the sidewalk around the
convenience store with the condition that the outdoor display of merchandise shall not
impede nor interfere with pedestrian traffic.
d.No signage is permitted on the canopy nor can it be illuminated. Lights below the
canopy must be recessed.
e.A one-way is required for the lane between the gas station and the car wash. Add sign
and arrows showing one-way traffic.
f.Show turning movement for appropriate size delivery trucks.
g.Adjust cleanout on the west side of the gas station so that it is less than 100 feet between
the cleanout and the catch basin.
h.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.
i.The watermain must be relocated because it is too close to the building. Also, the
sanitary sewer and storm sewer must maintain a 10-foot separation.
5
j.Shift underground gas tanks feet south of their current location.
k.Staff will work with the applicant to improve the architecture of the car wash and gas
station/convenience store to make them more compatible with the buildings in the overall
development. The item will be brought back at the time of final plat approval for
approval by the City Council.
2.Building 4B, a multi-tenant building with an area of 11,000 square feet located on Lot 2,
Block 1.
a.Approval of this site plan is contingent upon approval of the PUD amendment to allow
drive-thru windows for coffee shops.
b.Signs shall be limited to the east and west elevations of the building.
c.Drive-thru lane shall be widened to 16 feet.
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d.Show turning movements for appropriate size delivery trucks.
e.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.
3.Building 4C, a two-story multi-tenant building, first floor with an area of 13,800 square feet,
second floor with area of 11,000 square feet, located on Lot 2, Block 1.
a.Drop off lane shall be widened to 22 feet.
b.The wall signs are limited to the north and south elevations only. Any signage on the
second floor may not be illuminated.
c.Show turning movements for appropriate size delivery trucks.
d.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb line.
4.Building 4D, a one-story retail building with an area of 8,000 square feet located on Lot 2,
Block 1.
a.Show turning movements for appropriate size delivery trucks.
b.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.
5.Building 4E, a 5,000 square-foot bank with a drive-thru, located on Lot 3, Block 1.
a.Approval of the site plan is contingent upon vacation of old Highway 101.
b.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.
6.Building 4F, a 3,400 square-foot retail building located on Lot 1, Block 2.
a.Approval of the site plan is contingent upon vacation of old Highway 101.
b.Trash enclosure drive shall be widened to 16 feet.
c.Show turning movements for appropriate size delivery trucks.
d.Show drainage arrows and percent of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the
asphalt surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.
8.Building 4G, a 10,000 square-foot Deli and Liquor Store located on Lot 2, Block 2.
a.Trash enclosure drive shall be widened to 16 feet.
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b.Show turning movements for appropriate size delivery trucks.
c.
Show drainage arrows and % of slope to ensure 1% minimum slope across the asphalt
surface and .5% minimum slope along the curb lines.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 4 to 0.
Mayor Furlong: The motion prevails. Very good. Thank you everyone.
COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS:
Mayor Furlong: Presentations from the council. Councilwoman Ernst, please.
Councilwoman Ernst: I would just like to say thank you to Bryan. It was a well, it was very
much a learning experience to go to the Leadership Emergency.
Mayor Furlong: Oh, the Leadership, yes.
Councilwoman Ernst: Yes, it was very helpful to understand what should happen in those type
of situations and what our role was, to basically back off so. So it was very good.
Mayor Furlong: And maybe to clarify a little bit. A couple weeks ago, I guess it was the last
week of February, the entire council attended an emergency management training session as part
of the, I guess National.
Councilman Litsey: National Management System…
Mayor Furlong: And we attended along with a number of other elected and appointed officials
for neighborhood communities. It was very informative. I agree with you. Well worth our time
and effort. That was one of the strategic initiatives that as a council we wanted to address, was
to increase our own training this year and I know we’ll be working with staff on some other
things later on but I would second the thanks and appreciation for South Lake Tonka and the
Excelsior Fire District. Scott Gerber did a great job. We miss him here at Carver County. He
used to fill that role in Carver County as Emergency Preparedness Management but it was well
done and so thank you for bringing that up.
Councilman Litsey: I just want to say too, I appreciate the council attending. It’s an important
thing to get on board with and have this coordination when it comes to, hopefully it never
happens in your community but if there’s a disaster that strikes, that we’re all on the same page
working together and I know this council has a lot of meetings to attend and it was just one more
to have to go through but I think it was, hopefully was, provide some good direction for the
council and if and there’s a question of when it’s going to strike in the metro area. But I mean
many communities already have had experienced it with Rogers had the tornadoes and so forth.
You always hope it’s not here but if it is, that we’re prepared to deal with that and can take
action on behalf of the residents and people that live here so, thank you for going.
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