PC 1999 11 17CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
IlEGULAIl MEETING
NOVEMBEII 17, 1999
Chairman Joyce called the meeting to order at 7;00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Matt Burton, LuAnn Sidney, Kevin Joyce, Ladd Conrad, Deb Kind
and Alison Blackowiak
MEMBERS ABSENT: Craig Peterson
STAFF PIlESENT: Bob Oenerous, Senior Planner; and Dave Hempel, Assistant City Engineer
PUBLIC HEAIIlNG:
IlEQUEST FOIl SUBDIVISION APPIIOVAL TO CIlEATE TWO LOTS ON A 1.47
ACRE LAKESHORE PARCEL ZONED RSF, AND LOCATED AT 6665 HORSESHOE
CURVE, SANDY POINT, JOHN AND SANDRA CUNNINGHAM.
Public Present:
Name Address
Christa & Nicholas Vassallo
Sandra & John Cunningham
Ray Brozovich
7018 Cheyenne Trail
6665 Horseshoe Curve
6609 Horseshoe Curve
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
Joyce: Any questions for Bob at this time?
Conrad: Chairman, just one. The recommendation for the asphalt drive. Is that a function of the
subdivision ordinance Bob? What's our standard for this type of development and this type of
neighborhood?
Hempel: Mr. Chairman, maybe I can address that. Any new urban development within the urban
service area we require a hard surface driveway to access the residence. In this neighborhood
there is a mixture of gravel driveways and paved driveways. We felt that it should be brought up
to current ordinance standards with paved driveways.
Conrad: Let me take on, there's one tree that goes over. It's a very big tree so the question in my
mind is, and I know the Forester's been there. What's more positive for the survival of that tree?
As I looked at it, I'm not sure runoff is an issue there but I think survival of the tree is, is one
surface. The question is, is one surface a gravel versus asphalt better for that tree? Are we
hurting it by putting asphalt over it because it is a huge, huge tree. What's our best guess on
something like that?
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Hempel: I'd have to defer that to the forester to answer but I would think construction traffic
alone building a new home in there would be the most detrimental to the tree. Long term versus
asphalt versus gravel.
Generous: Mr. Chairman, I did discuss this with Jill as part of our review and she said that she
didn't anticipate that the installation of the driveway would kill the tree. We think that it's, as
long, provided we can get the tree protection fencing up and keep the construction activity off the
critical root zone, a majority of that should survive.
Conrad: Mr. Chairman, just one more on this one. So what did they do during construction that
keeps that tree alive? Keep it off the root system? Keep heavy stufl~
Hempel: Exactly. We require the tree protection fencing around it so that's what.
Conrad: Okay.
Joyce: Any other questions for staff'?
Kind: Yes Mr. Chairman. Bob, on condition 17 you talk about no shoreline vegetation removal
will be allowed for access or a view to Lotus Lake. But our shoreland ordinance, management
ordinance does allow for removal of some vegetation to create a view and also for access like
stairs or lifts, that sort of thing. Could you speak to that a little bit?
Generous: That specific language would preclude any of that.
Kind: And the reasons are?
Generous: Well they felt again the Forester reviewed this. She believed that they had sufficient
ability to access the lake without taking that out and views are not an issue. They have views to
either side.
Kind: I guess my question would be getting down, like if they had a boat down at the lake. How
do they get down there without having stairs? You need to clear some vegetation to get stairs or a
path or something like that. Would this preclude that?
Generous: Preclude putting in the stairway, yes. If any vegetation had to be cleared.
Kind: And vegetation includes scrub brushy?
Generous: Any vegetation.
Kind: Vegetation is vegetation.
Generous: Understory and trees. I think the primary concern is for the overstory trees but the
way it's currently written it would include the understory stuff2 The brush.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Kind: It seems reasonable to me that they should be able to get access to the shore. I'll wait to
hear from the applicant on that. That's all for now.
Joyce: Any other questions at this time for staff'? I just have one Bob. Recommendation number
9, or condition number 9. Is a recommendation obviously. How strongly are we, the City
looking at that? I just think that they have a pad there that they're just trying to lower a house and
even jockeying it 5 feet here or there, you know it's, you don't have that much room.
Generous: Well there is a little bit of ability to shift it towards the northeast. We're not sure how
much additional preservation. Our main concern was the tree preservation along the property line.
And looking at this I'm not sure we're going to get a lot of it. The applicant has discussed this
with me and his intention is to revegetate that area.
Joyce: So maybe we should wait for that. I just thought I'd bring that up. But so we're saying
that the driveway is part of the City Code Dave, but the condition 9 is kind of just best of all
world type of situation.
Generous: Make sure they look at it. There's no real teeth in the way it's written.
Joyce: Okay. Then at this time if the applicant would like to address the Planning Commission at
this time, please step forward and state your name and address.
John Cunningham: My name is John Cunningham. I live at 6665 Horseshoe Curve. The other
applicant is my wife Sandra. We have lived, we bought this lot in 1968 so we've lived there quite
a while. We're very happy living there. At a certain point we decided that maybe we needed a
different house for our present needs and our first idea was if it would be possible to split the lot
we could satisfy both situations. Found the old plot that the prior owner had left us and we went
into City Hall and we first met with Cindy and she was extremely helpful and she's the one that
showed us how to use the cross access and the easement to get to the back part of the lot because
the lot, as you can see, it's a triangular shaped lot. It doesn't break itself into two... It's much
easier to do it on the way it shows on there. And about this same time our daughter decided
perhaps she would buy our house so the whole thing began to fall together for us. We hired
Scholl and Madsen to do a survey and at this point they made a mistaken and they thought it
would be a simple metes and bounds situation which of course didn't prove to be the situation.
We also began to have meetings with Bob Generous and he was most helpful in showing us how
the property lines could change angles so that the houses would have their own, totally their own
view. Turning like this... And that also was very positive for us that we could do that because
we really do not want to impact the lot any more than we absolutely had to. And obviously
putting a house there is going to change things but we wanted to keep that to a very minimum.
We talked to him about the various setbacks that are required and we've satisfied all those. About
this time the survey had a meeting with the City Hall and suddenly the survey cost tripled and
Sanra and I became developers, which was okay. We met again with Bob to check about the
positions and the setbacks and everything looked okay so we went ahead with the complex survey
and we turned our materials in by the deadline and got the staff report last Friday. Generally
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
things looked fine to us. They asked us to raise the house a half foot which we already did. We
called the Schoell and Madsen and told them to put that into position. The request to consider
moving the house 10 feet north is a little more of a problem to us. We had considered it over the
last 6 months we've probably considered every possible angle and position in that triangle because
it is rather limiting and we really feel that clearly this to be the best position for the house for
several reasons. It keeps the house most completely out of the sight lines of the existing house.
Pulls it back as far as it can go and we think the best situation for the two houses existing on the
same, in the same area. In terms of moving the house 10 feet north, the second reason why we
think it's a bad idea is if you take 10 feet away from that triangle, that building triangle, you
really cut down the amount of space in the house. The amount of potential space in the house.
The shape that you see up there is a 1,600 to 1,700 square foot house with a two car garage.
There's not room for a three car garage and a screened porch. Our intent is to create a walkout
basement for future bedroom space for families that would come along after us. This is not a big
house and the reduction of 10 feet times the building triangle creates a much more difficult
building pad. The building pad does come to a point and when you take that 10 feet away it
really comes to a point very short, in a very short period of distance. The idea of... from the east
creates a new set of angles. It doesn't really pick up much and an odd shape like that is difficult
to design around. And the other thing that happens when you move the plan to the north is it
leaves room on the east end almost only for a garage. There's not, we have it the way the plan is
set up now, and I can show that to you in a minute. We have a garage and a front entry on that
side so when you drive in from the road you come up to the garage and then there's a nice front
entry and we think it's really very nicely designed. When you start moving it you mn out of
space to put that front entry on the same end as the garage. Now reacting to the reason of moving
to minimize impacts to existing vegetation. There are two trees which I'll mention in a moment.
The only other existing vegetation on our side is a hedge and that particular hedge was there when
we moved in. It's an important hedge to us and as I'm sure it's an important hedge to the
neighbor and we certainly would plan to keep it. It provides cover in the summer and should it be
damaged in construction I would certainly replace it. I don't see any problem with it's roots
because I don't think it has that big of a root area. There were some significant maples mentioned
in the report. I couldn't find those. Maybe something was mismarked or something but looking
at the trees in the house area, starting at the east end. This tree right here, these are oaks and
they're pretty good sized oaks. They're about 20 feet from the comer of the garage and this is a
slab garage here. Across from these. At any rate, there's 20 feet there and I'm hoping probably
enough space. There is a dutch elm here. I don't know how it survived the dutch elm disease but
it did. It's growing underneath the canopy. There's a number of trees on the other side of the
properly line that really, that I propose to take that tree out which is about a 9 inch. Then if you
move here there's a fir tree. It too has problems because it gets no light from the south side so
there's no branches whatsoever on the south side of it and I don't see much problem in taking it
out. Other than that the surveyor.., maple tree that's right in here. I can't, I disagree with it and
my aim is to try to do the garage turn around to save that tree. If we can't we'll take it out. But
other than that we don't intend to take out any other trees and don't think we have to. I share the
same concern as others do about this place where the road goes between these trees. Obviously
we're going to try to save that oak.., whatever is required to protect it. I would assume
that.., building phase that that driveway would be gravel. So like I say, we're just going to do the
best we can to save that tree. Well then the existing vegetation that was there along here is pretty
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
well scrub vegetation. It's stuffthat has come up by itself through the years. That end of our yard
has never really been a place where we've tried to grow anything specific. We just let it be the
way it was. We could get some hostas and some ferns to grow in there but that's about it because
there's a lot of oak trees back in here that form, that shade that area so our intent is to, and we
went over it with Halla Nursery. Once we picked out, once we get the construction part done
here we propose to put in here a bunch of plantings that tolerate shade and we have a planting
design that we thought. At any rate, we've done some planting to go along here. That includes
the existing trees that.., believe will stay there. Obviously we would replace anything damaged or
caused problem by the construction. There is that one maple that we certainly would lose in the
driveway area that I'm going to try to save if we move the house. That would be a goner. There
are 27 hardwoods on the lot. You don't see all of them on that plan because a lot of them didn't
impact the canopy and they're off down on the point. So we're only taking two possibly three
trees out. I thought that was a pretty good placement of the house on the lot in terms of the trees.
For these reasons I believe after doing and ask for consideration, the best situation because of the
house position, superior design possibilities and improvement in vegetation, is to have the house
positioned which satisfies all city requirements as it was originally presented. I would echo the
concern about the crushed rock driveway. I know I'm in a minority but I believe a crushed rock
driveway that is kept up is a more natural looking surface than pavement or cement. I have on a
number of occasions observed my driveway during storms. It soaks up most rain and then gully
washes, the drainage crosses at the low point. This driveway has been through two 100 year
rains, which I don't know if you people were all here when we had those but we had two 100
year rains. I don't, this isn't a big deal to me and I'll pave the driveway. The new driveway will
even have less slope than my present one. I suspect sometimes it has more to do with people
neglecting the upkeep on crushed rock. It needs to be surfaced every once in a while with new
rocks and weeds kept out of it. I'll just show you maybe quickly the exterior of the house. This
would be the front that you would see from the road as you're coming in. We tried very hard to
make that side of the house attractive but also, this was what I was talking about. If you took 10
feet away from here, that would... I thank you for your consideration and I can answer any
questions that I'm capable of answering I guess.
Joyce: Commission have any questions for the applicant? Thank you.
Kind: Mr. Chairman, I do. Mr. Cunningham, sorry. I do have a question for you. On condition
number 17, you did not speak to that as far as access to the lake. Would you like to be able to get
down there?
John Cunningham: I think I understand what, I can, the main thing I think with...
Kind: That's what I heard Bob say.
Generous: You mean clear vegetation.
John Cunningham: No, I wouldn't intend to clear it.
Kind: Even scrub vegetation.
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
John Cunningham: ... I just assume, as far as I was concerned, I never.., but I just assumed that I
would be able to access the lake.
Kind: So you're okay with condition 17 the way it reads?
Sandra Cunningham: If we're able to access the lake.
John Cunningham: I mean you're not telling us we can't go down to the lake?
Joyce: No, I don't think that's the letter of the law. No.
John Cunningham: ...
Kind: Thank you.
Joyce: Okay, this is open for a public hearing. Could I have a motion and a second to open it up?
Blackowiak moved, Kind seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Joyce: This item's open for public hearing. If anyone would like to address the Planning
Commission on this subject, please step forward and state your name and address. Seeing none,
may I have a motion to close the public hearing.
Burton moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was closed.
Joyce: Anybody just jump right in. Commission, anyone like to tackle this and give us their
insight on it? Deb.
Kind: Sure Mr. Chairman. I went out and looked at the site today and I was very glad that I did
because on paper it looks goofy but when you're there it looks like a very reasonable thing to do
and it's a beautiful site and I think it's a nice project. It was fun to see the elevations. I think it's
going to be really attractive. Condition number 9, talking about the 10 feet. Moving the properly.
Or moving the house 10 feet. I don't see that that's necessary. I like it where it is. I think it
provides the best view for both homes and replacing that vegetation, if it's destroyed will be
sufficient. Were there any other issues? And as long as they're okay with condition 17 on the
shoreland access, I'm fine with the plan and agree with the staff report.
Joyce: Thank you. Alison.
Blackowiak: Yeah, I pretty much agree with what Deb said. My only comments are going to be
regarding condition 15. And this is the driveway. I don't know if I've been convinced that it
needs to be an asphalt or concrete driveway. As is it looks nice. There are several other rock
driveways in the neighborhood and I think it's consistent with the neighborhood as a rock
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
driveway. I however don't feel the need to necessarily take this condition out but I would maybe
say to council look carefully at that because I don't see that it absolutely has to be. I mean not
from an engineering standpoint. Not from a public safety standpoint. So I'm not convinced that it
needs to be paved. Then just one little comment about condition 15. It's worded the driveway on
both lots. We just have to stick a number 1 in there. But that's it. Otherwise I agree with what
Deb has said and it's, I think it's nicely done.
Joyce: Ladd any comments?
Conrad: Nothing new. I think there should be better definition to condition 17. It looks like it's
just sitting there and doesn't, I don't know what it applies to. I'd be real uncomfortable ifI were
the Cunninghams and I think, yeah you don't want to. It just, it's too vague and they do have
access. They do have property. They have no intention of removing any of the vegetation down
there but it just is one of those real bad statements that I don't know how I would change it. You
know we do want to say that the vegetation on the point shouldn't be taken down. I think that's
what staff is saying and there's some clear, there are some significant trees down there but, and
they happen to be on the shoreline but that's not their intent so I don't know. I guess I, without
even making a motion on that one. I think staff just should be better, a little bit clearer on what
their intent is. I'd leave it in but I'd certainly get some clarification on that. The other points I
think, Deb's point I think on taking the first half. I don't think the pad should be moved. It will
hurt some other things and I would like to make their vegetation plan a part of the conditions. We
do have a way of mitigating any minor changes they're making to their side yard setback so I
think that should be a part of the conditions.
Kind: Number 16 speaks to that. Is that adequate?
Conrad: Well see that's a preservation and removal plan. Preservation Bob, is that the re, does
that also mean the revegetation or?
Generous: Could be.
Conrad: Okay. Well if you interpret it that way I'm comfortable that we could stick a word in
there that talks about. I think that's good. It's good for the neighbors to see that they're doing
something. Making that side of the house attractive, which it is already.
Joyce: Thank you.
Sidney: It looks straight forward. I appreciate the thoroughness of the staff report. I think we do
need to about that last condition maybe. That our verbiage, with the help of stafl~ I do appreciate
the applicant's thoroughness too in working with stafl~ That's great. It looks like a good plan. I
am in favor of modifying condition 9 to remove that shifting of the house 10 feet.
Burton: I agree with basically all the comments. I'd remove 9 and 17 doesn't particularly trouble
me because of the way this property is set up but I was thinking that, I guess this is kind of a
question for everybody here. Could we add something to the end of that to the effect that in the
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
case of a hardship for a proposed reasonable use which is consistent with the neighborhood, the
City could approve removal of vegetation or something like that so there's an opening if needed?
I don't know if we even need to do that. Just a thought but something along those lines.
Joyce: Okay. I agree with everything that's been said. I don't think we need condition number 9.
If condition 15, if that is part of the code that the driveway has to be paved, fine. I'd have to
agree with everyone else. I think the driveway as it is is fine. Also I think that's what the
neighborhood looks like and a lot crushed rock driveways there so I don't see why they have to
put a paved driveway in there. Leave that up to City Council to decide on that one. I have to
agree with condition 17. I think what we're talking about is significant foliage, vegetation type of
thing. Get down to the.., not the letter of the law so if someone can brilliantly come up with some
motion, condition there to get this through, that would be wonderful so with that said, can we get
a motion here.
Kind: I'll make a motion Mr. Chair. I move the Planning Commission recommends approval of
the preliminary plat for subdivision #99-11 creating lwo lots for Sandy Point Addition as shown
on plans prepared by, I don't know how you say that. Schoell & Madsen, Inc. dated October 15,
1999 subject to the following conditions 1 through 18 with number 9 changed to read, the walkout
elevation of the dwelling should be raised a minimum of 1/2 foot to provide positive drainage from
the home. Away from the home. Number 16. Change to read, the applicant shall submit tree
preservation and landscape, let's see. Tree preservation, removal plans and landscaping plans to
the City prior to City Council approval of the final plat. And number 17 change to read, shoreline
vegetation removal must comply with shoreland management ordinances.
Conrad: I'd second.
Joyce: Any discussion?
Conrad: The only thing I'd like to do as a footnote, and it doesn't need to be part of the staff
report but I'd really like staff to revisit the asphalt driveway. And maybe I'd buy our ordinance.
The direction it's going but in this case I'm not sure. It may be the common portion of these lwo
lots that have asphalt and maybe the Cunningham's done want that, but consider that. Obviously
we're leaving it in so that's what you're stuck with. Staff doesn't have to move one iota on that if
we leave it in. But to have the common portion.., that's going inland a little bit or into the
property a little bit to have that rock. But that's just a footnote. That's not an addendum or that's
not a change to condition 15. 15 is there and it's probably something that you should talk to City
Council about.
Kind moved, Conrad seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the
preliminary plat for Subdivision #99-11 creating two lots for Sandy Point Addition as
shown on plans prepared by Schoell & Madsen, Inc., dated October 15, 1999, subject to the
following conditions:
The principal structure on Lot 1, Block 1 must maintain a 76 foot setback from the normal
water elevation (896.3).
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
10.
11.
12.
In lieu of parkland dedication the developer shall pay full park and trail fees for Lot 1,
Block 1 to the city pursuant to city ordinance.
Access easement width must be 30 feet.
Because of the distance and the setbacks for the proposed building, additional address signs
will be required at the driveway entrance in compliance with Chanhassen Fire Department
Policy #29-1992 regarding premise identification. (Copy enclosed). Contact Chanhassen
Fire Marshal for proposed address identification at the driveway entrance.
A demolition permit must be obtained to demolish the existing detached garage and gazebo.
Both of these structures must be removed.
The water service serving the new home on Lot 1 cannot pass through the garage.
The water service line must be sized based on the available water pressure and the amount
of plumbing fixtures in the building.
The address for the existing home on Lot 2 will have to be changed to 6669 Horseshoe
Curve and the new home on Lot 1 will be addressed 6665 Horseshoe Curve. The applicant
must contact the appropriate agencies to coordinate this change.
The walkout elevation of the dwelling should be raised a minimum of 0.5 feet to provide
positive drainage away from the home.
A detailed grading, drainage, erosion control and tree removal plan will be required at time
ofbuiding permit application for city staff to review and approve.
Drainage swales must be installed and maintained along both sides of any house proposed
on Lot 1 to manage runoff from the front yard to the back yard and maintain the
neighborhood drainage pattern. Erosion control measures will be required on the building
permit certificate of survey. Erosion control fencing shall be installed on the downstream
side of the grading limits. A rock construction entrance shall also be required at Horseshoe
Curve.
The developer and staff shall work together in determining a path for the sanitary sewer
service which creates the least disruption to existing vegetation. The water service shall be
extended by the City at the developer's cost from Horseshoe Curve to the easterly property
line of Lot 2. The developer will be responsible for extending the water service through Lot
1 to Lot 2. The developer shall escrow with the City $2,500 to guarantee the cost of water
service extension across Horseshoe Curve. Lot 1, Block 1 will be responsible for a sanitary
sewer and water hookup fee and connection charges at time of building permit application.
The cost of extending the water service across Horseshoe Curve shall be deducted from the
watermain connection charge.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
13.
The final plat shall dedicate an additional 10 feet of street right-of-way for Horseshoe Curve
along with the standard 10 foot front and rear and 5 foot side yard drainage and utility
easements. In addition, a 20 foot wide utility and drainage easement shall be dedicated over
the existing sanitary sewer line that runs through the westerly portion of Lots 1 and 2.
14.
The developer shall be responsible for all City Attorney fees associated with the review and
recording of the final plat documents, Surface Water Management fees, and GIS fees
pursuant to City Ordinance. These fees are due at time of final plat recording.
15.
According to City Code, driveways within the urban service area shall be paved with an all
weather surface such as asphalt or concrete. The driveways on both Lots 1 and 2, Block 1
shall be paved with either bituminous or concrete. The common portion of the driveway
must be twenty feet wide pavement width with a seven ton design.
16. The applicant shall submit tree preservation and removal plans and landscape plans to the
city prior to City Council approval of the final plat.
17. Shoreline vegetation removal must comply with shoreland management ordinances.
18. Tree preservation fence will be required to be installed at the edge of the proposed grading
limits.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
PUBLIC HEARING:
REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL TO SUBDIVIDE A PARCEL
INTO 2 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS OF 20~134 SQ. FT. AND 19~591 SQ. FT. LOCATED
SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF POWERS BOULEVARD AND HOLLY
LANE~ ARROWHEAD ADDITION~ ARROWHEAD DEVELOPMENT.
Public Present:
Name
Address
Michael Spiess
Michael Abbott
Robert M. Bowen
Tad Ware
Joyce Hagedom
Robert Rabe
Frank & Florence Natole
470 Flying Cloud Drive
1281 Medina Road, Long Lake
6275 Powers Blvd.
1225 Lilac Lane
630 Carver Beach Road
6307 Teton Lane
6251 Teton Lane
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Joyce: Are there any questions for staff at this time?
Blackowiak: Mr. Chair I have two quick questions. I think the first one will be to Dave. I'm
assuming that Carver County gave their blessing on the driveway location.
Hempel: At this point I have not heard back from them on this revised plan. The initial plan they
did have concern when the driveway was located further to the north on the property. Because of
the sight line distance plus the driveway was off set from Holly Lane and I believe it's Willow
Creek, private street directly across from this lot. What we did is looked at it. Adjusted it to the
south to a line across from Willow Creek and improve the sight lines for the driveway access
point. We believe Carver County would concur with the location.
Blackowiak: All right, good. And Bob I just have kind of a general question. Often times we
have a tree replacement conditions. I've seen in other contracts or other conditions that we require
the trees to be guaranteed. Do we ever do that with straight residential subdivisions or what?
Generous: Yes. What we do is part off it's in the ordinance so we don't have to incorporate it as
part of any conditions of approval. That they will guarantee them for two years. Basically it
works out too. They can either do that through a letter of credit or a cash escrow to the City.
Blackowiak: Okay and so that, like that doesn't have to be a condition or anything?
Generous: No, because that's part of our city ordinance.
Blackowiak: Good, all right. Thank you. All right, thank you.
Joyce: Any other questions for staff at this time? All right, if we can get the applicant up here to
address the Planning Commission. Please state your name and address.
Mike Abbott: I'm Mike Abbott. My address is 1282 Medina Road in Long Lake. We had gone
kind of round and round on how we wanted to divide this up and I think what we've ended up
with now. As Bob mentioned, actually it was kind of funny. I took over trying to do something
with this property somebody else in our company had started. We were intentionally, our initial
idea meant that the driveway was really long and it went to the north and the reason we did that
was that the slope on that hill, on that lot is really steep. I think what we've got now, we had our
surveyor out there looking at it and I think we can do a 10% grade on that. I don't think it will be
any steeper than that. I mean we don't want it to be coming down where the two driveways
merge together and they come down onto Powers Boulevard. You know you don't want it to
have, my driveway at my house is very much that way where you either take a running start to get
up or you go really slow coming down in the winter so. I think the plan we have now I
independently of even meeting Bob drew a plan that was very, very close to that so when I went
in the day I met him he sort of said well come on in. I want to show you something that I would
recommend and same thing that I had so I think the plan accommodates what we want to do as
well as what you want to do. We will be planting trees. That's one of the things that, we don't
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
do a lot of developments but the ones that we do we do try to keep you know the environment as
much the same as it was, if not improved. We're a very small company but everybody in our
company as well, we have plant probably a thousand trees a year. We have trees stockpiled on
lane that we own that we'll make it look nice. I think for one I think it will also, from our own
selfish point of view, it would be nice to have some pine trees along that front road anyway just so
that the people don't hear the noise as much and that the view from the people coming out of
Willow Creek or Holly Lane still have a nice view. I mean that's a nice piece of property, but it's
also a piece of residential properly that somebody could put one or two homes on so. I don't
know if, maybe just go through the conditions here and see if there's. There aren't many
variances and I think it pretty much meets the conditions here. That's really all. I don't think
there's anything else here that really needs talking about. I think what we've done is something
that will work so if you have any questions I'll be glad to answer them for you.
Joyce: Any questions for the applicant at this point?
Mike Abbott: Okay, thanks.
Joyce: Can I get a motion and a second to open it up for public hearing please.
Conrad moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Joyce: Okay, this is open for a public hearing. If you'd like to address the Planning Commission
on this item, please step forward and state your name and address.
Robert M. Bowen: My name is Robert M. Bowen. I reside at 6275 Powers Boulevard and I wish
to make a few comments with respect to these procedures. The zoning ordinances of Chanhassen
were established for a reason. I think. The area, in our opinion, is unsafe and unsuitable for two
homes. And the aesthetics of Chanhassen's entrance and properly value in the neighborhood will
likely drop precedent and a slippery slope. The zoning ordinances of Chanhassen were
established for a reason. And presumably to preserve our pleasant suburban community. Attract
commerce, it will help Chanhassen grow and support the tax base and preserve homeowners
properly values. Ignoring the ordinances for the proposed project will undermine all of these
purposes. Therefore the zoning ordinance should be forced uniformily. There are unsafe and
unsiteable sites for two homes. Highway 17. The reason these two points where the staff referred
you to is that Highway 17 is a dangerous road, and if you don't believe it come on down and see
it. The proposed site is a steep hill and sees a great deal of drainage. Highway 17. She's a
stinker. She's a fast road. Entering cars, especially along this stretch out there near the proposed
home is at a risk of accidents with the traffic. Because the traffic is much, is often much faster
than the posted 45 mph. They're still coming over in excess of 50 mph out here to the
astonishment of us all. Particularly since they built a thing that's called, not a highway but a
religious item. The thing that was being fed in here all summer long. That little area on the side.
A trail. We had big trail business. The 45 mph doesn't mean a damn. You and I know you've
been out on that highway where 50 was ignored, and that's right in the community. Within two
miles here you can go from 50. That's the term we use for 55, 56 and worse. South, til you get
12
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
down to where the two homes are proposed to be made, and then it drops to 30. It's crazy.
Because traffic is often much faster than the posted, posted miles per miles. They don't even have
it even posted at that. Excelsior sets up speed traps just beyond Lilac Lane on Highway 17 for a
reason. The site is not suitable for one home, let alone two for reasons of drainage and the creek
about the properly and noise from the highway. Come on down and spend a night trying to get to
sleep when these things are screaming through there. I've heard many a night and sometimes
occasionally a crash. It's a mad house out there and as you must all well know, just recently they
ordered a 25 mph speed off to the south line off the south shore of Christmas Lake. This site has
been for sale for decades for a reason. No one wishing to build a home for his or her family
would choose it. There is no small coincidence that a corporation intent on hit and run profits is
the party to propose this development. With respect to that sale for decades for a reason, is that
my father fought these same problems back prior to '43. Aesthetics of Chanhassen's entrance.
Currently the entrance is attractive. These houses will marr that. The trees planted on the hills are
going to be gone. It's going to be stripped down. And you and I know it. All you have to do is
get out here a few miles and what this town does has been trying to preserve something but we
will go through, it will go. Two structures constructed according to the standards necessary to
cram them into land the size of a postage stamp on a steep hill will not live up to the standards of
other homes in the neighborhood. The inconsistency would damge those homeowners' interest.
And bending the rules for this chase will set a dangerous precedent for all and anyone to side step
zoning ordinances. Do you have any questions?
Joyce: No sir. Thank you very much for coming. Would anyone else like to address the
Planning Commission on this topic?
Robert Rabe: Robert Rabe and I live on Teton Lane, which is just to the west of this properly.
And I guess just a couple questions. Is it true, just to confirm, that this is at variance with the
ordinances for the zoning?
Joyce: Bob, could you answer that question?
Generous: As originallly proposed it was but based on the revisions it complies with city
ordinance.
Robert Rabe: And what were the sizes of the lots when it was originally proposed?
Generous: They were the 23,719 and 16,010.
Robert Rabe: Okay. And so by basically manipulating the lines it has been possible to fit two lots
in this space and just squeeze over the zoning limit basically. Is this how it?
Generous: No, they're substantially above it. 15,000 square feet is the minimum lot size in the
zoning district. So they're both about 5,000 square feet over.
Robert Rabe: Okay. I understand. I tend to concur with Bowen's comments. I guess I would
like to ask what is the benefit to the community of having two houses on this lot? What is the
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
purpose derived from that? It's a very noisey place due to the traffic. It's a busy road. It's a
steep grade. To me it's very reasonable that, as Mr. Bowen stated, that there could be a serious
problem of traffic entering onto basically what's a fast road at that point. And as a property
owner basically adjacent to this, I am highly concerned that the trees that are currently blocking
the view of Mill Street might be all cut down and I don't believe we have any control over that.
And I really, I haven't heard anything addressed with regard to that topic specifically. And I don't
personally have a lot of confidence that the views of the neighbors are going to be respected. In
my experience with developments of this type it's basically get the most dollars out of the
property that you can possibly get out and I think this is a case in point. So the developer will be
long gone. I mean they'll put the house in and you know what, how long? Maybe a few months
it takes to mm the property around after it's completed. Sell it for whatever price perhaps they
can get. Hopefully more than they would have gotten for one nice house on the property. And
then they're gone and out and we're left with it. Basically forever so, while it may comply with
the zoning ordinances, I can't deny that, I do feel that it is contrary to the nature of the
neighborhood and is basically inconsistent with the overall intent of the community and I would
propose that it not be allowed to be granted just because it happens to comply with some facts on
a page. At the very least I would like to know what is going to happen to the screen of trees
around the homes and particularly to the west where right now it's quite a nice, thick stand. I
would like to know what actions are being taken to preserve that. And also I think the risk of
accidents on Mill Street is a very great one and a very serious one. I would like to know
specifically what is being done to guarantee that there wouldn't be a problem here so with that.
Joyce: Thank you very much. Bob I'm going to, I need to intrude on the public hearing here but I
did have a question for you, for the staff and I apologize. Do we take a tree inventory here of
when this development, will there be a tree inventory when they do the tree removal?
Generous: Part of their building permit application they have that requirement. Grading and
drainage and tree removal specific for the site. We did a canopy coverage calculation as part of
this subdivision.
Joyce: What kind of, would you happen to know what kind of trees are in there? Are they
substantial trees like oaks and elms and things like that or is it more of a scrubby type of tree?
Generous: Yes they were. There is a nice stand of conifers on the northern portion of this site.
And that's the area that we're trying to preserve in its entirety. But it was ironwood. Maybe
some basswood in there. Some, there weren't many large trees. It was like regrowing a meadow
area.
Joyce: How do those, how do we go from this preliminary plat to the moving site where we find
out what trees are actually being moved? Do you go over that with the applicant once they put
the, I want the process here. So everybody knows what's going on.
Generous: As part of this application they need to provide the City with a landscaping plan for the
installation of 17 trees that are required as part of the subdivision.
14
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Joyce: Why wasn't it part of that? Why weren't we requiring it now on this preliminary plat? At
least the landscaping plan.
Generous: Well I think initially they didn't feel that it was such a small plat that they didn't have
that much to provide. So the applicant is, and that is something we believe that we can work with.
Our major concern in designing this was trying to preserve as much of the site as we could. And
we were able to almost double the area of tree preservation based on the revised plans. Then from
that we take the, we can tell them the quantity and then work with them on the specific
landscaping plan. Then as part of the site grading for the building permit we'll look at specific
protection measures of trees in the area. Of the building pads to see if there's additional trees that
can and will be preserved as part of the plat.
Joyce: All right, thanks for. Yes ma'am. Sorry to.
Florence Natole: ... picture that I could show. Okay, I'm Florence Natole, 6251 Teton Lane.
And we are the only two lots that are in back so when they take the trees down, our lot is going to
be like this. They're worrying about trees. They're plum trees a lot of them. They're not big,
beautiful trees. They've been there since we've been there, 37 years. I used to reach over our
fence to pick the plums. I asked this of Bob when I talked to him on the phone. I was a little hot
under the collar that day. Some days I get like that. But I said what's going to happen to our land
which goes up like this and then this goes down like that. They take all the trees and build a
house, where's our land going to be? Up in the air with nothing? Is there going to be anything, I
haven't heard a word. Is there going to be anything about making a 45 degree angle or whatever
they talk about, which they did Lorus when Centex put in those houses. They had that as a
stipulation that they couldn't leave him with the hill so everything ran down. So our land is right
there where the land is. That's what I was trying to say. It's, we're the Natoles and our land runs
right to there. The two trees, the two biggest trees we have, my husband put some white ties on
so we can see from there. Yeah, that's us. Right where this land is that they'll propose the two
houses. So you're talking about some trees. I'm not worrying about the trees. I'm worrying
about what's going to happen to our land when it's up in the air and we want to sell maybe and
somebody wants to build a house back there. Then what do they do?
Joyce: Could I have Bob maybe address that for you right now? Since we're at it.
Florence Natole: Well I've already talked to him once about this.
Generous: She didn't like my answer.
Florence Natole: No, I don't like your answer.
Joyce: Help us all then. Is there a retaining wall right there as well? Is that what we're talking
there?
Hempel: Mr. Chairman maybe I can address that.
15
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Joyce: There we go. I knew someone could help us here.
Hempel: The plans before you this evening show approximately a 3 to 1 side slope from the
properly line down to the driveway. There's also a small retaining wall proposed by the garage
on this particular type of home site that they're proposing. Now one of the things that staff said in
the staff report was, this is just one way to develop the properly. Another home builder may
come in and design another home style that reconfigures the footprint and that's where we go and
we say to them, okay show us a detailed grading, drainage and erosion control plan, tree removal
plan and show us how you're going to maintain that slope so it doesn't just slide off and leave you
with a clifl~
Florence Natole: Yeah, up in the air.
Hempel: Those are things that we address at time of building permit application.
Florence Natole: Okay. This then, right now you don't have anything covering that at this
particular time?
Hempel: Well there are ordinances in place that protect you from that. They want to use a
retaining wall, there are certain requirements. They have to be engineered. Safely requirements
to put a fence above them if they're over 4 or 6 feet high...
Florence Natole: It's going to be. It's quite a high one. I've always dreamed of having a house
up on that upper acre there because you can see a lot farther than from where we are. So it's a
beautiful spot as far as we're concerned. But what's it going to look like after that's gone? Well,
for now I guess that's my big objection.
Tad Ware: My name is Tad Ware. I reside at 1225 Lilac Lane. The points that my grandfather
brought up came up at dinner on Sunday with my father who owns the properly immediately north
of the Natole's and also abuts that hill. Exactly that one right there. And the four major concerns
that came out, the first was the, what we felt was lack of compliance with the zoning ordinances.
Are those all complied with now? Including setback from the, okay. The second thing that we
were worried about was, as Mrs. Natole mentioned, the erosion of the hill. There is a great deal
of water that travels through that land. Both the.., that feed into Christmas Lake travel down that
hill. There's a big ditch that runs along that properly and carries a lot of water for that reason and
our concern is that it's going to not only, with the grading that I'm sure is going to have to happen
to flatten that out in order to build two structures there. At least to my uneducated guess, cause
some sort of erosion if it's not very carefully done. Our third concern was Highway 17 now
traveling into Chanhassen is something that we're pretty proud of. It's a very beautiful strip of
road. Mr. Bowen has built a bunch of evergreens along there before the new trail that was put in.
Went in and it's a very nice strip that goes into Chanhassen and we're worried about what putting
two houses in is going to do to the appearance of the neighborhood. Also, the properly's been up
for sale for a couple of decades. Every since I was a little kid and I'm pushing 30 and it's a very
steep piece of land and.., doing around 40 or 50 and is frequently doing much faster. There's a
reason why the Excelsior police set up right past Lilac Lane and make out a lot of money on
16
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
people coming out of Chanhassen. And our concern is partly that folks traveling through there are
going to be placed in greater danger just because more people are going to be coming out onto
that county road. And also that, what was the other point I was going to get to? Sorry, I get
nervous public speaking. I think that was about it. But those were the concerns that we had and if
they could be addressed more to our satisfaction that our property values aren't going to drop and
the hill isn't going to erode and cause damage to the land that we own, it would.., our fears.
Thanks.
Joyce Hagedom: ... 45 Holly Lane and it butts up to your property Mr. Bowen. And our garage
has collapsed twice.
Kind: Could you tell us your name and address please? Thank you.
Joyce Hagedom: I'm Joyce Hagedom at 630 Carver Beach Road but we also have a house at
8145 Holly Lane. And the garage has collapsed twice and if there's going to be more erosion,
more water coming down our property we are going to lose our garage again for the third time. I
have never complained to the Chanhassen Village for it but this is a big concern. We had Mr.
Kerber come and try to re-support our garage and rebuild it again but every time there was a huge
rainfall, this water comes down. Now the City has done an excellent job of putting some rip rap
along Holly Lane but up on Willow Creek there's no, and it comes down Willow Creek and into
my garage. There's going to be more runofl~ I'm going to lose my property so I'm very
concerned and I just wanted to bring this concern before...
Joyce: Thank you very much for. Anybody else. Can I have a motion to close the public
hearing?
Kind moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was closed.
Joyce: Okay commissioners.
Blackowiak: Mr. Chair, may I ask for clarification from Bob before we start?
Joyce: Sure.
Blackowiak: As I was sitting here playing with my little scale of 30 feet here, I was reading
through the conditions and it talks about the front yard setback on Lot 1. It's condition 15. Which
is the lot line that you are considering the front lot line?
Generous: It would be the side line. Property line closest to the county road. Where the
driveway would be.
Blackowiak: Okay, so not the one that's most north of south? It's the diagonal... ?
Generous: It becomes side lot lines...
17
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Blackowiak: So as I look at the 30 feet, it appears that the garage is encroaching into that 30 foot
setback. So what are we seeing here? Are we seeing an actual plan or would any garage
encroach into it or not?
Generous: That's part of the reason we're requesting that they provide the individual grading,
drainage and erosion control plans because these are stylized house plans. We don't believe this is
what's actually going to go on the site. They would have to comply with the setback
requirements. That's another reason I put it in the conditions so it's very specific.
Blackowiak: Good. Great, that helps. Thank you.
Joyce: Okay. Did you want to continue on Alison?
Blackowiak: Certainly. As I first read this, on paper it looks like a fairly straight forward
subdivision. However as I've driven by this property many times. Have in-laws that live up in
Excelsior so I drive this road a lot and I do know that it is kind of a tough road. I know the traffic
moves quickly. And I also see Excelsior police making their money on people both going to and
leaving Excelsior because there are lots of people that are stopped there on a regular basis. I do
think traffic is a main concern. It's access is directly onto 17 is less than ideal. I don't know that
it could really be any other way unfortunately. But short of a right-in, right-out, something like
that, if there are going to be houses there, they need to have access. Although it might not be the
best thing to do, you got to get there. I do have some questions or problems I guess with the
erosion specifically. It is such a hilly lot. I think there are going to be a lot of potential erosion
problems. Not only on the lots themselves but the lots directly to the west. And also potentially
onto the highway. I worry what's going to happen onto the highway after maybe a rain. Are we
going to get mud slides or something coming down onto the highway because we're losing dirt
off the property? I don't know. One of the people.., pointed water flow to Christmas Lake and
that's something that concerns me. If you have streams going through the property, any time you
start changing directions of streams and water flow you're going to have, there are potentially
huge problems. And I would like to find out a little bit more about where the streams are. How
they are impacted by the proposed houses and would hope that as city council looks at this they
could get some answers onto, as to what the situation is with the runoff patterns now. Where the
streams are and how this is going to impact this entire parcel. Obviously this is a very tough one.
I can see why it has been for sale for a lot of years because it won't be easy to build on it but I do
want to be sure that the neighbors are protected in terms of erosion specifically, both uphill and
downhill from this project. And I think those are my major concerns. It's not as straight forward
as I thought it was. I don't have any problems with any of the other conditions as long as all the
setbacks are met. Not much we can do as a Planning Commission if ordinances are met. But we
can put conditions in and we can make comments to try to make it the best possible subdivision I
hope that we can work something out.
Kind: Mr. Chairman, I have a couple questions for Bob. I wonder if you can address some of the
questions that were brought up by the public. Mr. Bowen commented several times on, he felt the
lot was too small for two homes and I heard you say quietly and I just want to make sure it's for
the record that our minimum lot size is 15,000 square feet and these both exceed that.
18
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Generous: That's correct. They're almost 20,000 square feet each.
Kind: So they're on the large side of our standard lot size. And then I noticed there's no
condition in here talking about tree conservation. Is that something that we could put in as a
condition? That there be tree conservation lines, especially along the west.
Generous: You can put any condition you like in there.
Kind: I might.
Generous: We believe with the revision to the plan we were able to save the northern triangle.
That would be an appropriate place for it. It becomes a little more problematic on the west side of
the properly near the house pads because they don't know if they're going to put the retaining wall
in or go with the 3 to 1 slope which is a standard grading.., so we didn't want to restrict it too
much. We knew it's a difficult site.
Kind: Okay, thank you.
Hempel: Maybe I can add to that. The northerly half of the site you're basically couldn't build
anything in there becauase of the setback requirements so you certainly could place a tree
conservation easement over that but I guess there's no way to build in that area so we felt it would
be preserved for the most part.
Kind: Thank you. With that Mr. Chairman I'll make my comments. I agree with what Alison
said and my main concern is the aesthetics of the site be maintained and especially the view from
the people to the west. So I'd like to see some sort of, I don't know. Tree conservation plan or
inventory of the significant trees be made and efforts be made to preserve those. I understand, I
like how it's been creatively laid out so that the northern portion is basically left undisturbed and I
understand your point about it. It kind of goes without saying but it seems important to point that
out that all those trees on the north halfI guess of the lot will not be changed. And there will be
no grading or anything happening in that really severe, steep area. The driveway entrance is a big
concern also. You've got to be able to get into these houses somehow. IfI had my way I would
say this lot shouldn't be developed at all until all of those larger parcels are developed and they all
be developed at the same time but I don't get my way on that. So with that being said you know
this lot is a residential lot and there's two homes that can fit on there within our ordinances, it's
got to have a way out to the street and the Counly needs to approve that so if they approve it,
which is, it's in their hands I guess, we can go with that. My favorite place to get sweet corn is at
Kerber's which is that next right turn when you head south and I know I've been almost rear
ended making that turn. This drive is even before that so I would be very nervous about living
there. Very nervous but I won't be buying it. So you'll be the one rear ending the person making
the right turn. It is. I agree. Okay.
Joyce: Great. Keep the comments at the commission level here because it's our turn now. Ladd,
do you have anything else to add?
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Conrad: Well they're all valid questions but it is, it's a buildable lot. Legally. Yeah there's
nothing to add. My big concern is the erosion and the tree replacement. To make it fit in, and
we've talked about that. I think the conditions reflect the control we have. The conditions reflect
the control we have on this. Before I stop my comments let me ask Dave a question on retaining
walls. Is that's what's going to be? Is that what you would guess would happen on the steep
slope?
Hempel: I would envision some retaining walls on the westerly side of the Lot 1.
Conrad: How big?
Hempel: I would suspect to try to keep them in the 4 to 6 foot range. As you get higher than that
they get very expensive. They have to be engineered. A fence for safety issues.
Conrad: And so our rules will manage, what manage retaining wall height other than you? You
do that. In terms of safety, what's the control we have on safety when you have a 6 foot retaining
wall and maybe children on the other side. What guidelines do you follow Dave?
Hempel: I believe there are some building codes to protect residents from that. We've also
instilled a policy here, any time you're adjacent to a property like that, a residential use, that we
would require a fence be placed on top of a retaining wall. Anything above 4 foot 9.
Conrad: Thank you. Bob, your tree replacement plan has 17 trees. A minimum of 4 trees must
be conifers. We don't know where those 17 are going, do we? We don't.
Generous: We're requesting that they provide us with that plan prior to council approval.
Conrad: Is that as stiff a tree replacement plan as we can put in right now?
Generous: Yes.
Conrad: That's what ordinance tells us to do. Okay.
Mike Abbott: Could I address that now?
Joyce: No, we're done now. You can address that at city council level.
Conrad: I'm sure this will be replayed at City Council so. A minimum of 4 so what sets that
minimum? Our ordinance again, a minimum of 4 was that staff"s?
Generous: Well no, that was staff"s recommendations. 20% have to be conifers.
Conrad: I'm just getting into the small points. I think the residents would like to know some of
the details and the details aren't available yet. They're just not there. The ordinances are there
20
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
and you almost have to say trust the ordinances. We've gone through this before but you've got
to sort of follow the process through. I think we all know what the issues are and I think staff is
now hearing us express what the issues are, and they're pretty good at following through on this.
Nothing else.
Joyce: Thank you Ladd. Matt.
Burton: I agree with all the comments prior really for a change. And what I understand is going
on is they're not really asking to build any particular houses. They're asking that this single lot be
divided into two lots and with these proposed lines and they've met the requirements that we have
for doing that. The staff did work with them pretty diligently it appears to preserve the site the
best as possible. And because they've met the standards, I think our hands are pretty tied and the
details about where the driveway could be or retaining walls and all that and the grading, that's all
I think for the next step that we're not at. I understand the concerns of the neighbors and I respect
the concerns but what we're essentially faced with is a drawing of a property line and they've met
the standards. I don't think that we have much flexibility at this point in how we handle it. I think
we have to approve it.
Sidney: I agree with the previous comments. I am concerned with the drainage issues. I think
that's.., it does sound like there may be a bit more than originally outlined in the staff report. Also
I am concerned about the safety issue for a driveway entrance. That Carver County will review
that and things will work out... At first glance it seemed to be a straight forward subdivision. I
think those issues.., subdivision meets ordinances.
Joyce: I don't have much else to add. This is a sensitive piece of property. But it is a buildable
piece of property and what you're telling me it's been considered a buildable piece of property for
a long time so now they've decided to act on that and I think it's within reason. I would like to
make one comment though for consideration is that we put some sort of condition or at least
acknowledgement that we don't approve this proposal until the County can verify the access
location. An acceptable access location. I didn't see that in the conditions. Condition 11 says
that the applicant will be responsible obtaining, complying with necessary permits such as Carver
County, MPCA, etc, etc. I'd like to kind of highlight, if someone would be willing to do that, that
there definitely has to be concurrence with the County that the access location is acceptable. I
think that's kind of important and still puts some of the onus on the County to decide whether it's
a safe entrance for this development or not. So, with that said do I have a motion?
Blackowiak: I'll make a motion. I move that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
the preliminary plat for Arrowhead Addition, Subdivision #99-10 creating two lots as shown on
plans prepared by Advance Surveying and Engineering Company dated June 24, 1999, revised
October 26, 1999, subject to the following conditions 1 through 15. And I've got a few of my
own to add. Number 16. Explore the possibility of a tree conservation easement for the northern
triangle of the property. Number 17. Investigate potential erosion, drainage and water flow
problems for the parcel. And number 18. Condition of approval being concurrence with the
County for an acceptable driveway location.
21
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Joyce: Is there a second on that motion?
Kind: Second.
Joyce: Got a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?
Kind: One question Alison. Would you be okay with a friendly amendment? I think it was 16 of
your's that included a detailed plan of tree inventory.
Blackowiak: Bob, do we need that or is that part of our ordinance? Did you say it was part of
our ordinance, tree inventory?
Generous: As part of the specific plan, yes. They have to provide that. You can repeat it here if
you want to.
Kind: Just to emphasize how important we think it is. Here's my proposed number 16. Let me
know what you think here. The applicant provide a detailed plan of tree inventory and tree
conservation easement, especially along the western and norther portions of the parcel.
Blackowiak: I can live with that.
Joyce: Okay. We have the amendment to number 16. You accept that? Okay. Any other
discussion?
Blackowiak moved, Kind seconded that the Planning Commission reconunends approval
of the preliminary plat for Arrowhead Addition, Subdivision #99-10 creating two lots as
shown on plans prepared by Advance Surveying and Engineering Company dated June 24,
1999, revised October 26, 1999, subject to the following conditions:
The development shall pay full park and trail fees pursuant to city ordinance in lieu of park
land dedication.
If any soil corrections are done on the property a final grading plan and soil report must be
submitted to the Inspections Division before permits will be issued.
Address numbers must be posted at the driveway entrance on Powers Boulevard and on each
dwelling.
Each property must be served by independent sewer and water services. It may be possible
to provide an easement for a joint service, however a manhole structure would be required at
the service split.
The applicant shall submit landscape plan as part of the final plat approval showing a total of
17 trees to be planted as part of this development. A minimum of four of the trees must be
conifers that shall be located along Powers Boulevard. Conifers shall average seven feet in
22
Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
height at planting. The balance of the trees may be from the city's approved tree list. Trees
shall meet minimum size requirements.
A detailed grading, drainage and erosion control, tree removal plan will be required for each
lot at time of building permit application for city staff to review.
The applicant will be required to enter into a development contract with the City and provide
the necessary financial security to guarantee installation of the public improvements and
conditions of final plat approval.
The applicant shall dedicate the southeasterly 50 feet of Outlot A for public street purposes
for Holly Lane.
The applicant shall prepare and have recorded a 20 foot wide private drainage and utility
easement in favor of Lot 1 over Lot 2 to extend sewer and water service to Lot 1. In
addition, the developer shall prepare and have recorded a 30 foot wide private driveway
easement agreement across Lot 2 to provide access to Lot 1 from Powers Boulevard. The
driveway width shall be a minimum of 18 feet wide and a maximum of 24 feet wide in the
common portion of the driveway area. Individual driveways may be a minimum of 12 feet
wide and a maximum of 24 feet wide. All driveway areas shall be paved with an all
weather surface such as bituminous or concrete.
The applicant shall prepare detailed construction plans and specifications in accordance with
the City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates for the extension of sewer and water
service to service Lots 1 and 2. Detailed construction plans and specifications shall be
submitted to city staff for review and approval three weeks prior to final plat consideration.
The applicant shall be responsible for obtaining and complying with the necessary permits
such as Carver County Highway Department, MPCA, Watershed District, and Minnesota
Department of Health.
Lots 1 and 2 shall be responsible for a sanitary sewer and water hookup charge at time of
building permit application at the rate in effect at the time.
SWMP fees shall be paid to the city in the amount of $2,530 ($782 quality and $1,802
quantity) prior to the recording of the final plat.
The applicant shall dedicate to the city a drainage and utility easement over Outlot A.
Since Lot 1 does not front on a public street, the front yard shall be considered the lot line
closest to Powers Boulevard. The required 30 foot front yard setback shall be maintained
from this lot line.
The applicant provide a detailed plan of tree inventory and tree conservation
easement, especially along the western and norther portions of the parcel.
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
17. Investigate potential erosion, drainage and water flow problems for the parcel.
18. Condition of approval being concurrence with the County for an acceptable driveway
location.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Joyce: Okay, this will pass onto the City Council on December 13th. Thank you all for coming.
Appreciate your comments and coming out this evening.
Audience: I have a question. How can we be made apprised of the situation because...
Joyce: Okay, what I suggest you do is call Mr. Generous over here, who will be very happy to
walk you through any further questions you have. And you've got, like I said, the 13th of
December is when this comes before the City Council which will make the binding decision on
this. And I'll just say to everybody that the City is pretty good about answering questions and
being accomodating to sort of problems you have so please stop in. Bob Generous, Kate
Aanenson, happy to talk to you. Dave Hempel too.
OLD BUSINESS.
Generous: ... received additional financing through the Met Council so we believe that project
will go forward now?
Kind: Apartments? I missed the first part.
Generous: So we've been working with them and the Minnesota Housing Finance Agency to find
additional funding sources beyond the City of Chanhassen. So it looks like it's a go now. Or
should be a go.
Joyce: Was it the bicycle shop that's starting to take shape?
Generous: That building and Building 4 is going up. The swim school is in for construction.
Burton: Bob, I can't recall, is the bike shop all a bike shop in that building or wasn't there some
other space too?
Generous: There's a little juice bar area that they're going to have in the window on the patio
side. And then they have their office space of course up on the top.
NEW BUSINESS.
Joyce: New business?
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
Generous: Yes. Next meeting you will have two variances. What everyone likes to hear but at
least you can make final decisions on those .... apartments, that's on hold. That's the ones as part
of the Lake Susan Hills development. Yeah, we're working with the applicant to revise the plans.
So rather than do like we did tonight, we have one set of information and then have to change it
all. We're going to come up with a.
Kind: Where are these located?
Generous: Lake Drive West, inbetween Powers and just off of Powers on the south side.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Deb Kind noted the Minutes of the Planning Commission
meeting dated October 20, 1999 as presented.
ONGOING ITEMS.
Generous: As part of the Pulte Home development, that's up for reconsideration at Council. The
original proposal failed on a 3 to 2 motion and so, then one of the people on the 2 side has
requested it be reconsidered. These are answers that Kate prepared for the residents comments
that were made at the meeting. And so she just asked that I bring these down so you are apprised
of what's going on with that. At least in the discussion on that.
Conrad: Why does the City, you know that was brought to us as a sketch plan review. And I
haven't made an issue of this but why is City Council reviewing this, because it was a sketch plan
review? Why wasn't it brought back to us? After the.
Kind: To noodle it kind of.
Conrad: Absolutely. The sketch plan, and we'd better talk about this sometime when Kate's back
and we have everybody here but the sketch plan review is a very informal process where you get
input from everybody. And then it's up to the developer to come back and do what they think is
right based on the informal comments. What was presented to us was very formal from Kate.
Very detailed. Very specific with conditions and I've not seen that before. I made mention of it
that night but what the little bit of interest to me right now is how involved the City is at this point
in time. Maybe saving the developer some money. But I want to understand the process because
I don't understand it right now.
Generous: Mr. Chairman, the big issue at the council level were the land use issues. Is this the
appropriate land uses for that so that was part of their discussion.
Conrad: And that's valid, yeah. It's always been valid.
Generous: And then the question also became what's the advantage of the PUD and that's part of
what Kate's trying to explain in those comments that there is a lot more control through that
process rather than they could come in with a straight subdivision and use like an R-4 zoning and
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Planning Commission Meeting - November 17, 1999
go with twin homes or RSF and do a standard subdivision on portions and we'd lose some of the
preservation and common open spaces.
Joyce: Okay. Ongoing item.
Generous: Pulte.
Joyce: And we've had some open discussion?
Conrad: That was it.
Joyce: Motion to adjourn.
Kind moved, Conrad seconded to adjourn the Planning Commission meeting. The
meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
26