PC Minutes 4-15-08
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
4.The applicant shall revise the easterly elevation retail building proposed to be located on Lot
2 by introducing windows. The building shall maintain a minimum of 50% transparency
along the east elevation, facing Highway 41.
5.Approval of the site plan is contingent upon approval of Conditional Use Permit 05-05.
6.The turning movements for the future retail building site shall be revised to accommodate a
WB-40.”
7.The drawings for the south elevation of the building shall be corrected.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Undestad moved, Larson seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval
for Conditional Use Permit 08-05, to allow two buildings on a single lot, and including the
attached Findings of Fact and Recommendation, with the following condition:
1.Approval of the conditional use permit is contingent upon approval of the vacation, site plan
and administrative subdivision.”
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
CARVER COUNTY SERVICE CENTER: REQUEST FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL
FOR A 13,260 SQUARE FOOT TWO STORY OFFICE BUILDING ON PROPERTY
ZONED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) AND LOCATED AT 7808 KERBER
BOULEVARD. APPLICANT: CARVER COUNTY, PLANNING CASE 08-09.
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
Papke: Debbie, questions?
Larson: Yeah. What’s the drive thru for?
Generous: To pick up tabs. Things that you can do quickly.
Larson: Really? I’ve never seen that. A drive thru for that purpose I guess. Rather than having
to stand inside a building in line and wait and da, da, da, da. You can just drive thru, well there
you go. Slick.
Papke: Just like that.
Larson: Just like that.
Papke: Denny.
13
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
Laufenburger: When I look at the site I see that the drainage seems to flow from the northeast
portion of the lot to the southwest portion and you’re putting a drain area on the east side of the
building, is that correct?
Generous: That’s correct.
Laufenburger: Okay. The, all of the surface water that would be accumulated in the parking lot,
it seems like that would naturally flow down to the lowest part of the lot. Is there an
accumulation area there where the storm water, or the surface water will accumulate?
Fauske: You’re correct Commissioner Laufenburger. The applicant is proposing to construct a
rain garden on the east side of the building to take some roof drainage. The remainder of the site
will, the runoff will be captured by catch basins, conveyed through storm sewer and then there’s
a trunk storm sewer that lies on the south end of the site that runs east/west. They’ll be
connecting to that storm sewer at two locations. That storm sewer empties to the west to the
pond at the Target site.
Laufenburger: Then the other comment that you made Bob was that the elevation of the north
side, or the entrance, was actually 3 feet lower than the parking lot. Is that correct?
Generous: Well not the parking lot. Than the entrance on Kerber Boulevard. So you’re walking
th
down into the site from here and also down from West 78 Street.
Laufenburger: My primary concern would be that since this is a county taxpayer service center,
let’s be sensitive to the fact that as senior citizens approach this area in the winter, is there
anything that you’re going to ask the applicant to do to make sure that the sidewalk remains free
of ice so that there’s a walking there, there’s no accumulation of any sort. You understand my
question?
Fauske: Certainly, and when we looked at the grading of this site, all the proposed grades are
within the limits set forth through the city ordinance, and we do keep that in mind you know
living in Minnesota, our temperate climate, that there are ice conditions. So the sidewalk grades
are within that, with that, I believe they’re about 5%. The applicant can correct me if I’m wrong
on that, and then we have some pavement grades that at the entrance come up to around 7% but
then they do level out quite a bit after.
Laufenburger: Alright, thank you. That’s all I had.
Thomas: Yeah. I guess they’re talking about, were they talking about future expansion of this
building or what they’re going to do with the spaces not currently used in the building?
Generous: It’s not my understanding that they’d expand the building. They’re going to build the
two stories. There’s a basement level also that has storage and mechanical in it and they would
lease out the top floor until they needed it for their operation.
14
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
Thomas: Okay. Also with, how the, I mean, I can’t think. Sorry. Cold. With all the trees that
are on the property and the way that property is designed and how it is kind of lower, is it very
th
visible from roads, besides West 78? I mean can, is this going to be very obvious? I mean like
I’m just, I’m looking at the height on it and with all the trees and landscaping around it, do we
feel like it’s going to be very obvious that it’s there?
th
Generous: Well from West 78. Now from the highway, they may get a glimpse of the roof.
It’s a 30 foot tall building so they can see it, but signage will be on the north and east elevations.
Thomas: Okay. That’s it.
Dillon: I don’t have any questions.
Papke: Architecturally what other buildings was this designed to blend with? Is this supposed
to, are we trying to blend with any of the other buildings in the city? It doesn’t have the roof line
of the library. Does it look like the M&I building? Is it meant to be distinctive? Can you add
any commentary to that?
Generous: We didn’t try to make it fit in with any other buildings. We wanted it to be it’s own
destination and identity.
Papke: Okay.
Generous: With all the windows it does pick up some elements that you see like in the library or
in the M&I building itself, but architecturally it doesn’t have the same façade or feel.
Papke: I think you might have mentioned it, but I don’t recall. What was the grade change from
the M&I building to this building? I mean how far down below is this going to sit from the M&I
building?
Generous: 6 or 7 feet.
Papke: So, almost a full story below. When we were doing the design, did we have any
renderings or drawings that show how, you know what the sight lines are going to look like.
What is this building going to look like? Part down below the M&I building, is it going to look
like it’s hiding down there or is it tall enough or, I don’t know. I’m just trying to get an idea
visually how this is going to look.
Generous: From the intersection you will have a pretty clear view of this site because the road
curves over.
Papke: Right.
Generous: As you go west it does get hidden behind the M&I building. That’s a two story
building too with that big pyramid roof on top so it’d be difficult without going 3 or 4 stories to
get that type of visibility.
15
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
Papke: Yeah. To that end it would seem like a low of people are going to come from the west
side, they’re going to come from Target or something like that because it’s a right turn in here.
And because the M&I is a pretty good sized building, and is substantially higher, is there going
th
to be any signage on West 78 so I know to turn there? How do I know it’s there?
Generous: That hasn’t been addressed yet. If it becomes an issue, that’s something that we can
look at. We can, the City can approve directional signage for locating things that are off the
beaten path if you will. We think that as people get used to this, it will be like any of the other
ones that everyone knows to go there. It’s behind Target and M&I. Especially, no problem if
th
you’re going west on West 78 Street. You’ll definitely see it.
Papke: Yeah, if you’re going west it will be pretty evident but I’m just concerned coming from
the west going eastbound, it might not be quite as straight forward.
Generous: Well that’s something that we can look into.
Papke: Alright. If there’s an applicant here this evening, we’d love to hear from you.
Gayle Degler: I’ll start it off. We have a number of people that want to say a few things. First
of all I’d like to thank you for taking all the time that you’re putting into this. We, as the county,
enjoy working with the city. Great comment as far as providing signage because yeah, this is a
service center. Carver County Service Center and we are providing a service that, if anybody has
gone down to Chaska to get a license, we know that this is a very much a needed service that we
are providing, and it took a long time for the county to work with the city to find a suitable
location. You know we think we got a lot of opportunities out there, and we do, but the right
location, and this is the right location. Now I don’t want to say too much but I just wanted to
thank you for working with the county and providing this service.
Papke: Right. I know who you are. Did you state your name?
Gayle Degler: No, I did not. I’m Gayle Degler. I’m the County Commissioner representing the
south half of Chanhassen and Chaska.
Papke: Thank you.
Gayle Degler: Thank you.
Steve Taylor: Good evening Mr. Chair and commissioners. I’m Steve Taylor. I’m the
Administrative Services Division Director for Carver County. I’m also the Assistant County
Administrative and I’m called a lot of different things. Some good. Some bad. I’ve been
working on this project for a long, long time. Over 2 years. I dealt with Justin Miller. You may
recall Justin, and Bob and Kate and several other people here in looking for a suitable site and
I’m just glad we found it. I’m glad we’ve hired a great architect, Bentz-Thompson-Rietow
who’s done also some libraries and several service centers for Hennepin County so they have a
lot of experience in this. So I just wanted to say that this is an important milestone and we’re
16
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
looking forward to actually getting in front of City Council. Getting this thing approved.
Getting construction underway and having these services available for the residents of
Chanhassen. Being a Chanhassen resident myself, I’m looking forward to it so, that’s all I really
wanted to say. There’s probably going to be some architectural related questions and Ann Voda
with Bentz-Thompson-Rietow is here to help with any questions that you may have. Do we
want to ask questions of this gentleman or do we want to wait for the architect?
Laufenburger: I’d like to ask one.
Papke: Sure, go ahead.
Laufenburger: You’re excited about this site. Can you talk about some other sites that you
considered and why this particular site is preferred for you?
Steve Taylor: Well we looked at I would say more than 20 different sites, and a number of them
were developer owned and they wanted to do a turn key type of operation where they do a design
build for us. They would hire the architect. They would control a lot of what frankly we wanted
th
to control. We didn’t think we’d have the flexibility to do so, so there were sites on 78, actually
th
at I believe it was Arboretum and 78. In that area. Further west there were some sites over by
Lifetime Fitness that we looked at. There was just various chunks of land. We needed a
minimum of an acre and this is actually a little bit less than an acre. Parking has been somewhat
of an issue here and the impervious surface requirements, but we’ve been able to work through
that and we like the visibility of this area. This particular piece of land so, and Justin Miller at
the time, I mean he and I went touring around Chanhassen looking at various sites and he would
point on the map and I think Mark Lundgren went with us as well in looking at sites. And Todd
Gerhardt spent time with us looking for a site so, it was quite an adventure.
Laufenburger: Second question. Assuming you receive approval on this, when do you anticipate
serving your first taxpayer in that building?
th
Steve Taylor: December 20.
Laufenburger: 2008?
Steve Taylor: 2008.
Laufenburger: That’s all I had.
Papke: Anybody else?
Thomas: Actually I do have a question. How do you feel about the visibility of the site? I mean
you’ve kind of scoped that. Do you feel like it will be very visible and no one will pass it by to
go to Eden Prairie to get their tabs or something like that you know?
Steve Taylor: Yeah. We’ve talked about signage you know from 5 for example. And that’s
something we’re going to have to look at maybe a little bit more closely. I think we certainly
17
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
will need some city signage on the streets. Just like we have library signs. I think that’s
important. You know we may just have to play this a little bit by ear and can see how this all
lays out and it’s something we can certainly look at in the future. That’s very important to us is
visibility. Clearly. And if I could go back to that last question. There was some, I was being a
th
little bit facetious. December 19 is on our Gant chart for completion of this project. Barring
any you know unforeseen circumstances, I want to put the caveat in there. But our schedule calls
th
for construction starting the last week of May and being completed December 19 according to
our construction manager so we’ll see how good he is. So but visibility, getting back to your
question is very important to us.
Thomas: Yeah, me too. I want to make sure the residents know it and use it and utilize it.
Steve Taylor: I have had two meetings in my office this week with reporters and they’re going
to be reporting on this, similar to the Chaska Service Center and what we’re doing there as well
so, there’ll be something in Thursday’s paper.
Thomas: Good, thank you.
Papke: Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else from the applicant? I believe there was mention
of an architect present.
Ann Voda: Hello. I’m Ann Voda from Bentz-Thompson-Rietow Architects and I wonder if I
can get this graphic up. I guess I would start by at least commenting about the visibility issue as
well because it’s been an ongoing part of the design response. When you talked earlier about
what they’re trying to blend in with and really we’re trying to make it distinctive and eye
catching for this very reason that you’re mentioning. And this rendering shows a little bit of the
view from the street, from Kerber. Looking down into the side which slopes away continuously,
almost 10 feet difference from that northeast corner down to the southwest. So that was one
issue. And then the other issue is the way that we oriented the entrance so that we could get this,
a nice big window facing the front and containing the views for people inside using the space,
they’ll be able to look out from the waiting room onto this exterior courtyard on the north so two
different responses to that issue.
Papke: Questions?
Larson: Haven’t, thank you.
Dillon: No questions.
Papke: Just looking at, that’s a very interesting rendering there. The one thing that kind of
stands out to me that would be, the door isn’t obvious. It isn’t obvious where I go in. Can you
comment to that at all?
Ann Voda: Well I think that the entry location is obvious by the fact that there’s this vertical
swap of color and that marks the, there are actually two entries flanking that.
18
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
Papke: Can we put the monitor on?
Ann Voda: This piece right here.
Papke: Right.
Ann Voda: So there’s an entrance here and an entrance on this side right here.
Papke: So the awning there kind of is the architectural piece that suggests that that’s where you
go in?
Ann Voda: Well, I think there’s a couple readings. One is from the greater distance back,
around the parking lot you’ll be able to see quickly this larger marker. And then as you approach
either by foot from, another issue is that we have with entrance that really wants to face two
ways because parking ramps on two sides so there’s a door facing Kerber, and then this door
you’ll notice when you’re coming from the other side of the parking lot.
Papke: The drive up is in the back and as Commissioner Larson pointed out, this is not a
common feature of a license, a great feature of a license center but not real common. Unless I
know it’s there, I may not use it. Is there anything that’s going to facilitate someone driving in to
know that there’s a drive up hidden behind the back?
Ann Voda: Well the way that the technology works right now, you have to plan ahead to go use
the drive up. You actually work on line to make a drive up pick-up. That may change with
technology as it develops.
Larson: How would someone know to go online to do this?
Thomas: It’d be like if you’re doing your tabs and then you pick them up?
Ann Voda: Yeah, there’ll probably be notices in your tab renewals or I’m sure that the…
department will make that clear.
Laufenburger: Would it be possible for me to drop off my property tax statement at that
window?
Ann Voda: My understanding is yes.
th
Laufenburger: Too bad I won’t be able to do that by October 15.
Ann Voda: Next year.
Papke: Any other questions for the.
Thomas: No.
19
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
Papke: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Is there anyone else from the applicant here that
wants to mention anything tonight?
Mark Lundgren: My name is Mark Lundgren and…Division Director. A couple of the things
that we’d like to maybe answer a little clearer. There is only one other drive thru. That’s in
Maple Grove, so Hennepin County does have a drive thru that’s alive and well. And yes, we
hope to be able to cut down some of the trips to Chaska for things that can be taken care of
quickly. Obviously your title work, that type of thing is not going to be able to be done through
a drive thru. But tabs. Dropping off tax payments. Homestead applications. These type of
things. What we’re trying to do at the county is to work ourselves into a situation where we used
to have an auditor, a treasurer, recorder and assessor. We now have one division that entails all
of that so we’re trying as we get into different areas to meld all that together. I think one of the
unique things, and I won’t, well maybe I should ask you if you bought your tabs in Chaska or
not. We can use the two bucks, but if you’ve been to the Eden Prairie Service Center, we are
going to utilize a product that’s called Cue-Matic. If you’ve been to Chaska you’ve seen people
standing literally outside the door and it’s just a very poorly designed building. It’s served us
well 7 years ago, but we’ve just completely outgrown it. Along with this we do have an addition
that’s going on. Chaska’s going to be remodeled. The only thing that will be left will be 3 walls
and we’re going to expand that. And in both of those areas then we’ll use what’s called a Cue-
Matic. So we will have you come in. You know have a greeter. You’ll actually get a number.
That will then be cued to the 5 or 6 different people that are working. You’ll be able to take a
seat. Watch hopefully a little bit of television. I want to introduce too Laurie Englund who’s a
Taxpayer’s Services Director here. Has had a lot of input into this type of thing. Even looking
to an area where we now can have a little bit of something for some children. Maybe a video.
Something like that. So it gets us to a destination rather than frustration. Hopefully one that you
can conduct your business in. And I think we look forward to the Cue-Matic more than anything
else because it’s a great service tool, and it’s the only way that we know of that we can expedite
your visit. Serve you in a proper manner. Also it’s going to help to take a load off of staff.
Those people work very hard and get very few kudo’s for the work that they do. Most of the
time it’s something that’s maybe a little difficult, but we’re looking forward to this spot. If
you’re familiar with Chaska at all, on 41 there is a standard sign that will say, one directing you
to the Government Center. One to the service center so I’m sure that we will be talking with Bob
th
or whatever is necessary in terms of some signage out on West 78 Street. I don’t know if there
are any other questions. If you’re curious about Chaska. What we run in Chaska now, first part
of 2007 we were running about 350 people a day through that small building.
Papke: And what do you expect to run through this one?
Mark Lundgren: That’s a good question. We had an enormous amount of business from Eden
Prairie in Chaska, and we still do do a fair amount. We would hope that we can approach that
within the next couple of years. We certainly understand that we’re not going to do that as soon
as we open the doors. But also what we have here now also is the traffic that goes west from
here. There is no deputy registrar that can do what we can do in Waconia, Norwood-Young
America or any points west so hopefully it’s a lot of these people that are coming back and forth
and you know again the drive thru we think is a great feature. Gee, I need to pick up my tabs
today. And scoot through Chanhassen. State of the art type of thing. Get it taken care of. So
20
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
eventually we would hope to be at that number, but it would be facetious for me to say it’s going
to take us 8 months or 12 months. We just want to make sure that everybody that comes in there
leaves with a smile on their face.
Papke: Do you have a design spec for how many people the building and facility and the interior
layout and everything is designed for? Do you know what your trip load?
Mark Lundgren: How many chairs do we have Laurie? Do we have 42 waiting? I think we’re
at 42 waiting, which is very ample. And we’ll run somewhere, depending on, we also have I
believe 10 stations designed of different areas so that depending on the work load and we’ll find
out soon enough what that is. We will also be open one evening. We are currently open in
Chanhassen, I’m sorry. In Chaska on Thursday evenings so I imagine we’ll alternate like a
Tuesday evening or something here and be open til 7:00 so that people in this eastern corridor,
where so much of our population is, will be able to conduct their business. One of the other
things, do you want to mention anything about vitals Laurie? Since they’re going to be a service
center and not just a license center. Thank you for your time.
Papke: Sure, thank you. If you could state your name.
Laurie Englund: Good evening. Laurie Englund, Mr. Chair, commissioners. At this, currently
we have vital statistics that we process out at the Taxpayer’s Services Department. In other
words, marriage license, death and birth records. What we will do in both Chaska and the
Chanhassen License Center is we plan to process those in both of those facilities. In other words
so if someone needs one of those documents for a driver’s license. For a passport, they can get
that in the same building as opposed to having to go back down to the Government Center.
Papke: Thank you very much. Okay. Anyone else from the applicant? Alright. Is there any
public that would like to get up and comment on this facility? Seeing no one but applicants, I
will close the public hearing and bring it back to the commissioners. Comments.
Undestad: Yeah, I think it’s a very, very nice building and I know all the spots they looked at, I
agree. That’s probably the best location. Keep it right in town and handy. I think it will fit in
great there. Looking forward to it.
Dillon: I like this a lot. I think there, you know a couple things. I think the architectural colors
and the design adds a little flare to the area, so that’s nice. It’s a little different and like Mark, I
think it’s going to be you know kind of like a, not an anchor tenant but a reason for people to
have a presence in the center of our city and so they’ll be there and then hopefully they’ll be, you
know continue to support the other businesses that are there while they’re doing other errands
and things so I think it will have an other side benefit of that.
Thomas: I am also excited about the building being placed there. I think it’s a really good
location. I’m excited to have it within our town and just in the heart of Chanhassen. I think it’s
a great opportunity for the city. The only thing I just want to make sure that it is nice and visible
because as I’m sure some people know, the Eden Prairie location that they have that’s over by
the mall is like a best kept secret because nobody knows it’s there so I just want to make sure it’s
21
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
really utilized because Eden Prairie’s, you can go there and get in and out, which is great, but
I’m sure they’d love to see it more utilized.
Laufenburger: I concur. I think the Eden Prairie facility probably suffers from baggage. People
think it’s the library, which it was at one time. Whereas this is coming in as a service center so it
will, it will have it’s identity from the origination. I think it’s wonderful.
Larson: I agree with everyone. I’m glad it’s coming in. I have typically used the, either the
service centers down in Chaska or Excelsior, and Excelsior more often for tabs just because I
live on the north end of town and I’m so glad that I can go to a new building. Not that I dislike
the little building in Excelsior but this will be a very welcomed addition to the city.
Papke: Okay. I don’t really have any concerns. I’m fully excited. I think one of the comments
that the applicant mentioned tonight stirred some thinking in me. I hadn’t considered the
possibility of people coming from other cities but certainly Byerly’s and so on is a real Eden
Prairie destination so I’m quite confident that we’ll get a number of people using this facility
from the surrounding areas so I think it will enhance the downtown area, which we definitely
need now that we’re starting to see development along 312. It’s starting to pull some of the
businesses away from the downtown so I think this will kind of re-attract more traffic to the
downtown area so I’m very supportive of this. And with that, I will entertain a motion.
Larson: I’ll do a motion for you. The Chanhassen Planning Commission recommends that City
Council approve Planning Case #08-09 for site plan approval for a 13,260 square foot, two story
office building. Plans prepared by Bentz-Thompson-Rietow, Incorporated dated March 14,
2008, stamped Received March 31, 2008, subject to the following conditions 1 through 14.
Papke: Is there a second?
Thomas: Second.
Papke: Would anyone like to make any amendments concerning any of the signage? Any
conditions on it or recommendations of staff or are we good to go with that? Okay.
Larson moved, Thomas seconded that the Planning Commission recommends the City
Council approve Planning Case #08-09 for Site Plan Approval for a 13,260 square-foot,
two-story office building, plans prepared by Bentz/Thompson/Rietow, Inc., dated March
14, 2008 (stamped received March 31, 2008), subject to the following conditions:
1.Wood chip mulch area will be extended in the northwest corner of the site. The proposed
turf area under the tree in the corner peninsula will be removed. If desired, a single strip of
sod may be placed along the curb line of the peninsula.
2.The building is required to have automatic fire extinguishing systems.
3.Building plans must be prepared and signed by design professionals licensed in the State of
Minnesota.
22
Planning Commission Meeting - April 15, 2008
4.Retaining walls over four feet high must be designed by a professional engineer and a permit
must be obtained prior to construction.
5.One (1) “van-accessible” parking space is required.
6.Additional window area shall be installed in the break room in the southeast corner of the
building.
7.Signage shall be permitted on two building elevations only.
8.Staff recommends that the curb line north of the drive-thru be shifted to the east to provide
for additional vehicle stacking.
9.Staff recommends that manhole 4A be shifted into the curb line and replaced with a catch
basin to capture additional runoff from the parking lot.
10.The developer’s contractor must contact the Engineering Department a minimum of two
business days prior to connecting to the public storm sewer.
11.An encroachment agreement is required for the retaining walls.
12.The developer must ensure that the “no build easements” noted on the Certificate of Survey
will allow for the construction of parking lots and retaining walls.
13.City trunk sanitary sewer and water hook-up fees and the MCES SAC fee are due with the
building permit. The 2008 rates are $4,799/unit for City water, $1,769/unit for City sanitary
sewer and $1,900/unit for the MCES SAC. These fees are based on the number of SAC units
as determined by Met Council.
14.The Certificate of Survey must be signed.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commissioner Thomas noted the verbatim and summary
minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated March 18, 2008 as presented; and the
summary minutes of the Planning Commission meeting dated April 1, 2008 as presented.
COMMISSION PRESENTATIONS:
None.
Chairman Papke adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 8:05 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
23