PC 1999 05 05CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY $, 1999
Chairman Peterson called the meeting to order at 7;05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Alison Blackowiak, Matt Burton, Craig Peterson, Deb Kind, LuAnn
Sidney, and Ladd Conrad
MEMBERS ABSENT: Kevin Joyce
STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Community Development Director; Bob Oenerous, Senior
Planner; and Dave Hempel, Assistant City Engineer
PUBLIC HEARING:
REQUESTING CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPROVAL TO ALLOW A
RECREATIONAL BEACH LOT PURSUANT TO CITY CODE, SECTION 20-263 AND
A 27 FOOT VARIANCE TO PERMIT A 52 FOOT WIDE DOCK ANDA VARIANCE OF
ONE OVERNIGHT DOCK SLIP TO PERMIT 4 OVERNIGHT BOAT MOORINGS ON
OUTLOT F, NORTH BAY ON APPROXIMATELY 0.7 ACRES ON PROPERTY
ZONED PUD-R, NORTH BAY COMMUNITY.
Public Present:
Name Address
Richard Vogel
Ronald Ylzen
Josh Reding
Dennis Mills
105 Pioneer Trail
9227 Lake Riley
8791 North Bay Drive
9510 Foxford Road
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
Peterson: Questions of staff'? Bob the only one I have is regarding the gazebo. If we push that
back, are we going to be taking out more trees? There's a balance there. I couldn't really picture.
If we leave it where it is and grant the variance, will there be less trees taken out than if we push
them back to the full 75 feet?
Generous: Based on the location, they've shown where the trees are in this middle area, and
there's individuals.., they can locate it... Gazebos and decks don't really take a lot of grading to
be put in. It's just sinking the pylons for the supports so we believe they can meet the setbacks...
reasonably. One other thing I forgot, these future areas on the north side will take some grading
and they'll have to comply with their permits. But they should be able to preserve the natural
vegetation that's in place.
Peterson: You feel that the draft, design as it is now is an accurate portrayal of where the trees
are?
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
Generous: Yes.
Peterson: Other questions?
Blackowiak: Mr. Chairman, I guess I do have one. Is there currently a crosswalk at the
intersection of Lyman and Lakeview Road East?
Hempel: No there's not Mr. Chairman. That's one of the items that we put in the staff report to
investigate and from our investigations we feel that it would be an appropriate location to install a
crosswalk. The trail does end at that location and I believe there's a pedestrian ramp already in
place. Just necessary signing and striping of the road is required.
Peterson: Hearing no further questions, would the applicant or their designee wish to address the
commission? If so, please come forward and state your name and address please.
Josh Reding: My name's Josh Reding and my address is 8791 North Bay Drive. I'm part of the
North Bay community and representing our board of our association on this issue. And thank you
for looking over our proposal. First off in reference to the gazebo, I apologize. I was under the
assumption that our developer of the plans was aware of the setbacks and obviously that wasn't
the case so. It's our intention to make sure that it's within the guidelines and we don't have any
issues with the setbacks. And our main objective of this project is to maintaining any existing
vegetation that is on the site as long as it's not dead or overgrowth of something else that needs to
mature so just with that point, I think the gazebo can be placed in the right position so it doesn't
interfere. The issues around the dock, we're content with not accepting the variance of 52 feet
wide. However, what we would ask is that the commission reconsider a variance for an
additional 4 feet and the reason being, if we can reference the plan, on the plan you'll see that the
dock right here, that width is 24 feet and then we would ask for an additional 3 feet variance so it
would bring it to 28 feet wide instead of the 25 feet wide. If that would be a possibility. What
that would do, that would allow us to add this additional 4 foot section on the end to put a bench
there. So we would like that to be reconsidered and I'm not sure what the process is for that. I
can go over that with Bob. And then there was also some additional language around the beach
area. And our intention was to have that beach area be 50 feet wide and 20 feet in depth. Not
100 feet wide, and we do not have intentions, another misunderstanding belween myself and the
developer, of putting any type of boulder wall there. What our intention is is to grade that down
to water level within the guidelines to provide access to the water. So it'd be a maximum of 50
feet in width and 20 feet in depth with appropriate grading. And I need to review with Bob what
the DNR requirements are as proposed in the plan because I didn't quite understand them fully so.
That would be the only additional things. What else I need to review with Bob that's not on the
plan and I'm not sure if we'll.., we will be proposing to put a sign up. Just a 3 x 3 foot sign
recognizing that it's the North Bay Community and private property. So that's about all I have to
share with you.
Peterson: Bob, can you respond to a couple of those. As contentious as lake property are, and
granting any kind of variance on dockage is... trouble?
2
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
Aanenson: Well yes, it is a sensitive issue. For anybody that has not been given the same
request...
Generous: Procedurally you could grant something that's less than that as notice...
Peterson: Say that again.
Generous: Procedurally you could approve a 28 foot, or a 4 foot variance or 3 foot variance
rather than a 27 foot variance. You can always go less.
Peterson: What about the beach? Right now it's 30 feet per code. They're asking for 50.
Generous: Well they could based on our discussions with the DNR, they could make the blanket
all the way down so that would comply with the ordinance.
Peterson: 50 feet?
Generous: Yes.
Peterson: So really the issue before us is a 4 foot variance? 3 foot? Any questions of the
applicant?
Kind: I have a question I think it's probably of stafl~ Is the dock at it's maximum distance away
from the shore? Could the bench be at the end of the dock? Instead of sideways.
Generous: Sure. It could always be configured.
Kind: How far into the lake can you go?
Generous: 50 feet or to a depth of 4 feet in the lake.
Kind: And are we at that maximum right now?
Generous: We're not sure yet. That's one of the conditions that we'd have to find out what that
depth is at the end of the dock.
Josh Reding: We'll take water depths but it's our assumption right now that it's pretty shallow in
that bay and people that live on the lake can probably account for that. It takes quite a distance, I
think more than 50 feet to get the 4 feet in that area. And that's one of the reasons that we've
proposed the dock development the way we have is because in order to dock boats there, to pull
them in sideways along the dock, it just might be too shallow and it wouldn't allow us to have any
overnight storage for 74 homes.
Peterson: Other questions? Thank you.
Josh Reding: Thank you.
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
Peterson: This item is open for a public hearing. May I have a motion to open and a second
please?
Burton moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Peterson: This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the Planning Commission, please
come forward and state your name and address please.
Dennis Mills: Thanking you all for inviting me to speak. My name is Dennis Mills and I live at
9510 Foxford Road. I'm a resident on Lake Riley of 10 years. It's, as you all probably well
know, a wonderful recreation area and I have one major concern for additional beachlot access
and that's safety. There have been numerous, numerous occurrences of close collisions on that
lake and the Carver County Sheriff can bear witness to this. On any given pleasant day in the
summertime, safety on that lake is a major, major issue. If the public access were to restrict,
could restrict people to the number of parking places, which I believe is about 25, the problems
would be less. But the fact is that people park all up and down Pioneer Trail and as many as 100
boats can be put in there in any one day. If this continues, this beachlot continues, there will soon
be no water to enjoy. I mean on a nice day and safety once again will be an issue. I know the
Bearpath organization is looking hard for a piece of land so they can also have an access for their
numerous homes. I know we cannot restrict our beautiful waters and that's not my intention. But
my intention is for this committee to consider safety. It is a real issue. A real problem on this
wonderful lake and I just want you to all take that into consideration before granting this permit.
Thank you.
Peterson: Thank you. Anyone else?
Ron Ylzen: Ron Ylzen. I live at 9227 Lake Riley Boulevard. I've been there for 30 years and
I've seen the population around the lake grow to where it's constant all the way around the lake
and it's nice to see an area like the North Bay over there with nothing but trees and everything.
And I guess I don't look forward to seeing a great big dock there that's going to have overnight
parking for boats. I have a feeling that it's going to be abused by a lot of jet skis that are going to
be left over there overnight and for weeks on end. Concerning the swimming area, they were
talking about putting a sand beach in there but I know just inside of the water it's nothing but mud
and I'm not sure how far you would sink in there. So even to have a sand beach in there isn't
going to allow people to walk into the water and go swimming because you just can't. They
would have to put in a gravel base and sand and everything else I suppose on top of that. So it
doesn't seem that they really need a sand beach in there. It could just very well be grass. That's
one of the things that you might consider is to check what it's like in the water area. Thank you.
Peterson: Anyone else? Seeing none, is there a motion to close and a second please.
Burton moved, Conrad seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
closed.
Peterson: Fellow commissioners. Comments?
4
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
Burton: Mr. Chairman, I guess I'll venture a comment. I agree with the stafl's report pretty much
entirely and it would seem to me that whether the dock, whether it's going to be 52 feet or if
they're just an extra 4 feet, I think that the variance analysis is applied the same way and the staff
did that in the report and this project did not qualify for a variance and I agree with the staff2 So
while I think it would be nice to give them the extra 4 feet, I don't think that we can based on the
standards that we have to apply.
Peterson: Other comments? My only thought is, in a variance situation I'm more comfortable ifI
think it's adding value, in this case I think it is adding value having a bench out there. Without
granting a variance, realistically the bench won't be able to go there. Kate I look to you and Bob
as to have we granted variances within that kind of range before?
Aanenson: The thing with docks, and Ladd can testify to this. Depending on the water level,
some years you may have to extent out further to get to a depth so the issue I think is a bench out
there... Maybe they can work out a way to put a bench on there.., required setback. But the
length of the dock is going to fluctuate depending on water level. We can look at that between
now and...
Conrad: Mr. Chairman, I think the staff report is real good.
Blackowiak: I would echo that Mr. Chairman. I would like to say though that I think we need to
certainly address the issue of a crosswalk on Lake Riley Boulevard so maybe even before it goes
to Council, the applicant and staff could work together to get an agreement. You know where the
crosswalk's going to be and how the trail or drive or whatever is going to hook up to the
crosswalk because certainly don't want, lake safety is one issue. Safety crossing the road is
another so I think we need to make sure that we look at that as well. Otherwise I do agree with
the staff report.
Burton: Mr. Chairman, a question for staff relating to the crosswalk issue. I see that condition 10
of the proposed resolution here says that the city will prepare an engineering study for installation
of a crosswalk and I'm just wondering what that means. What if the study reveals that a
crosswalk is needed? Does that mean that it would automatically be placed in there?
Hempel: Mr. Chairman, yes. We've done a preliminary analysis already and it looks very
favorable to have one installed. The trail from the south side of Lyman I believe dead ends there
and actually comes out onto Lyman Boulevard and directly across the street at the intersection
there they have a sidewalk that comes down also to Lyman Boulevard so it actually just makes
sense to put it in at this point.
Peterson: If there's no further comments or discussion, may I have a motion and a second please.
Burton: Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. I'll move that the Planning Commission recommend
denial of the variance to permit a 52 foot wide dock to allow four overnight boat mooring slips
and to permit a gazebo approximately 45 feet from the OHW based on the findings established in
the report.
5
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
Blackowiak: I'll second that.
Peterson: It's been moved and seconded. Any discussion?
Burton moved, Blackowiak seconded that the Planning Commission recommend denial of
the variance to permit a 52 foot wide dock to allow four overnight boat mooring slips and
to permit a gazebo approximately 45 feet from the OHW based on the f'mdings established
in the report. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Peterson: Conditional use.
Burton: Mr. Chairman, I'll move that the Planning Commission recommend approval of
Conditional Use Permit #99-1 for a recreational beachlot located at 8901 Lyman Boulevard,
Outlot F, North Bay, also known as Lot 1, Block 1, North Bay 4th Addition for the North Bay
Community subject to conditions 1 through 18.
Peterson: Is there a second?
Conrad: Second.
Peterson: Discussion? The only thing I'd like to reconsider adding something in there that staff
work with the applicant.., seating area.
Burton: Fixing the what area?
Peterson: The seating, the bench.
Burton: Yeah. Can I just adopt that as a friendly amendment? I would. I will.
Peterson: It's been moved and seconded.
Burton moved, Conrad seconded that the Planning Commission reconnnend approval of
Conditional Use Permit #99-1 for a recreational beachlot located at 8901 Lyman
th
Boulevard, Outlot F, North Bay, also known as Lot 1, Block 1, North Bay 4 Addition for
the North Bay Community subject to the following conditions:
1. Must comply with Section 20-263 of the Chanhassen Zoning Ordinance.
2. Must comply with the site and landscaping plan, and grading and drainage plan prepared by
Pioneer Engineering dated 3/30/99.
3. The dock shall not be constructed as shown on the site plan, but must be a maximum of 25
feet wide.
6
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
The gazebo shall not be located as shown on the site plan but must maintain a 75 foot
setback from the ordinary high water elevation (865.3) and a 30 foot setback from Lyman
Boulevard.
Structures must maintain a minimum 10 foot setback from the side properly lines.
The dock may only be extended out to a point where the lake reaches four feet in depth or
fifty feet, whichever is greater. The applicant shall submit the lake depths in the vicinity of
the beachlot to the city prior to the installation of the dock.
Timbers or retaining walls shall not be permitted to the lake side of the sand beach area.
The fire pit must be a minimum of 10 feet from the ordinary high water elevation.
The applicant shall provide the city with a financial security in the form of a letter of credit
or cash escrow in the amount of $2,000 to guarantee erosion control measures, site
restoration and repair of city streets/boulevards as a result of construction activities.
The proposed section of Class V gravel trail between Lyman Boulevard and the city trail
shall be deleted. The city will prepare an engineering study for installation of a crosswalk at
the intersection of Lyman Boulevard and Lakeview Road East.
A rock construction entrance shall be installed and maintained at a construction access point
from Lyman Boulevard. Staff shall review and approve all construction access locations
prior to construction commencing.
After construction of the site improvements, driving on the city's trail along Lyman
Boulevard shall be prohibited.
Tree protection fencing shall be installed at the edge of all (volleyball, horseshoe pit,
shoreslip areas, beach, etc.) grading limits.
All pruning to existing trees must be done by a certified arborist.
Any existing trees removed in excess of approved plan will be replaced on site at a rate of
2:1 diameter inches.
Landscape plan shall be revised to clarify existing lawn areas. The term "sod limits" in the
shoreline areas shall be replaced by the term "existing lawn".
Grading equipment access to shoreslip and beach areas shall be limited to proposed
pathway. No equipment shall be stored within or allowed access through existing treed
areas.
7
Planning Commission Meeting - May 5, 1999
18.
The proposed beach area shall be pulled back 5 feet from the shore edge and a 10 foot wide
access point be created into the lake for swimming access or provide a sand blanket slope as
specified by the no permit standards of the DNR.
19. Staff and the applicant will work together regarding the placement of the bench on
the dock.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Peterson: This goes to Council on the 24th of May. Thank you for your additional comments for
those people attending too. I think those will be noted and presented to City Council also so
thanks.
NEW BUSINESS:
Aanenson: Just to let you know on our next planning commission meeting that we do have four
industrial buildings. If the swimming pool gets.., that may be back on. Also the apartments, the
162 unit apartment building so we will have a lengthy meeting. We'll plan on a break and we'll
see what we can get through. Also I passed out a letter from Bluff Creek Elementary School.
That Phil had an opportunity to out and just a really exciting because one of the components of the
Bluff Creek was an educational component and it's exciting that the elementary kids have been
able to use that and Phil's been involved. It was also featured in the Villager on an article so it's
great that the kids are using that as a laboratory which is one of the things we envisioned as one of
the goals. So I just wanted to let you know what's going on out there. That's all I had for kind of
ongoing. Oh yes, excuse me. The Comp Plan. Good news. We are officially on for May 13th.
The meeting starts at 4:00 at the Met Council and we've been recommended to have our comp
plan approved. So we've tentatively penciled that in for the City Council meeting on the 24th for
final reading and adoption and then we'll be printing those and getting copies. So yeah, it's
exciting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Matt Burton noted the Minutes of the Planning Commission
meeting dated April 21, 1999 as presented.
Aanenson: We've got a lot of stuff coming in. We're going to be busy in the next, you'll have
lengthy meetings the next month. Stuff coming in. We saved it for the summer.
Chairman Peterson adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at 7:30 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Community Development Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
8