PC 1998 03 18CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 18, 1998
Vice Chairman Joyce called the meeting to order at 7;05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Allyson Brooks, Alison Blackowiak, LuAnn Sidney, Matt Burton, and
Kevin Joyce. Ladd Conrad arrived after item 1.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Craig Peterson
STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Planning Director; Bob Oenerous, Senior Planner; Sharmin
A1-Jafl] Planner II; and Anita Benson, City Engineer
PUBLIC HEARING:
EDEN TRACE CORP. REQUEST TO REPLAT A 4.84 ACHE PARCEL, OUTLOT D,
CHANHASSEN BUSINESS CENTER INTO TWO LOTS AND A SITE PLAN REVIEW
FOR A 16,174 SQ. FT. AND A 23,070 SQ. FT. OFFICE/WAREHOUSE BUILDING
WITH OUTDOOR STORAGE.
Sharmin AI-Jaff presented the staff report on this item.
Joyce: Any questions for staff at this time?
Sidney: Sharmin, I was wondering if you received any lighting or signage information since you
prepared the report?
A1-Jaflk We did define the criteria and the ordinance truly regulates what the signage should look
like. There is enough control over that.
Joyce: All right, with that said, is the applicant here and like to address the Planning Commission
at this time?
Mark Undestad: My name is Mark Undestad with Eden Trace. I really don't have much more to
add to this.
Joyce: What you see is what you get.
Mark Undestad: We spent a lot of time on it and trying to get the design and things to work out
and I think we've done that so.
Joyce: Are there any questions for the applicant?
Sidney: I guess just one general one. I was kind of curious why you chose to build two buildings
rather than extend the larger ones?
Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Mark Undestad: A couple of different reasons. One, it's kind of an odd shaped lot and to really
have visibility from Audubon, from Lake Drive West and then to the east too so in order to try to
get the screening out in there, we thought eventually we're going to again hopefully expand into
that outdoor storage area so for now to build the two buildings, get all the loading docks and
everything screened in between the two buildings so you really don't have any loading front...
Joyce: What are you storing outside?
Mark Undestad: We're working with two different clients right now. One would be a...
Joyce: You don't feel that they're going to go, it's a 13 foot high fence.
Mark Undestad: Yeah, yeah. And no, the cabling, they can't stack them and they're only about 4
to 5 foot tall reels and they can't stack those. The slabs of granite are 6 to 8 feet and that's as tall
as they would get so. We brought the screen walls up to about 13 feet to provide...
Joyce: Why aren't you enclosing it now while you're constructing out there?
Mark Understand: The cost.
Joyce: Just the financial consideration? And you think there's a possibility you will enclose it at
some time?
Mark Undestad: Yeah, we hope to expand that, the front building in order to protect the rest of
the space on there.
Joyce: Oh, then that outdoor storage will turn into another portion of the building then? Okay.
The only other question I had was on the landscaping plan. It was put together by this nature
group and looking at the plant key, you might not even know .... and then nothing on the quantity
section you have.
Mark Undestad: Well actually they're redrawing a new plan based on the information in the staff
report they received now so they're going to add some trees off on the west side over there.
They're in the process of redrawing a plan right now that we'll get to staff probably some time
next week.
Joyce: Okay. But do you think that this plan is the one that they're going to be using here?
Mark Undestad: We'll be adding to that plan.
Joyce: Adding to that plan. Okay, great. That's all the questions I had.
Mark Undestad: Thank you.
Joyce: This is a public hearing so can I get a motion to open it?
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Blackowiak moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Joyce: Would anyone like to address the Planning Commission with this topic? Seeing none, I'd
like to close the public hearing.
Blackowiak moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
closed.
Joyce: Comments. Matt.
Burton: It seems like a well conceived development and I really don't have any problems.
Sidney: Looks really good to me. I'd like to compliment you on the plan. The applicant has
done a wonderful job. So has staff on the plan.
Blackowiak: I think it's a good plan and I don't have any problem with it.
Brooks: I have no comment.
Joyce: I think it's a well laid out plan. Congratulations. Good luck to you. With that said, I
need a couple of motions here.
Blackowiak: Okay, I'll move that the Planning Commission recommends approval of Site Plan
98-3 for Eden Trace Corporation as shown on the plans dated received February 13, 1998 and
subject to the following conditions, 1 through 17.
Burton: Second.
Blackowiak moved, Burton seconded that the Planning Commission reconunends approval
of Site Plan #98-3 for Eden Trace Corp. as shown on the plans dated received February 13,
1998, and subject to the following conditions:
All driveway access points onto Lake Drive West shall incorporate the City's industrial
driveway apron (Detail Plate No. 5207). The developer shall be responsible for relocating
any conflicting street lights along Lake Drive West.
Rock construction entrances shall be maintained by the applicant until all parking lots are
paved with a bituminous surface. In addition, all catch basin inlets shall be protected with
silt fence, rock filter dikes, or hay bales as well.
The bituminous trail along Audubon Road shall be restored in kind within seven days after
utility extension commences.
Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
10.
All drive aisles shall be revised to meet the City Code requirements (21-1101 and 20-1118).
Driveway radiuses onto Lake Drive West shall be increased to 20 foot radii.
The storm sewer system proposed for the easterly driveway shall be extended to the lot line
for future extension and use by Lot 1.
Sanitary sewer and water hookup charges shall be applied to the building permit. Charges
shall be based upon the number of SAC units determined by the Metropolitan Council
Environmental Services. The applicant shall provide the City with a financial guarantee in
the amount of $2,500 to guarantee boulevard restoration as a result of the two driveway
access points. The applicant shall report to the City Engineer the location or any drain files
found during construction and shall relocate or abandon the drain files as directed by the
City Engineer.
The contractor and/or developer shall contact the City's Engineering Department for
inspection of the driveway apron and curb/street restoration prior to pouring the concrete. A
24 hour notice is required to schedule an inspection.
All utility improvements shall be constructed in accordance with the latest editions of the
City's Standard Specifications and Detail Plates and/or State Plumbing Codes. Detailed
utility plans and specifications shall be submitted in conjunction with the final plat approval
for staff review and approval. The private utilities will be inspected by the City's Building
Department. The developer and/or builder shall be responsible for obtaining the necessary
permits from the City.
Applicant shall revise landscaping plan to include 24 understory trees and 24 shrubs, as
required by buff'er yard ordinance, near the western edge of the parking lot along Audubon
Road.
Site plan review approval of this application is contingent upon final plat approval and
recording of Chanhassen Business Center 4th Addition by the City.
11. Fire Marshal conditions:
Please relocate the fire hydrant which sits in front of the parking stall just outside of the
fenced in area on the northwest side of the property. Please relocate fire hydrant to the
curb off the northwest comer of the fenced in area. MN Uniform Fire Code 1991
Section 10.403.
Please relocate the fire hydrant which sits in front of parking staff on the southeast
comer of Building B. Please relocate hydrant over to the northeast in order to provide
access for the fire department. MN Uniform Code 1991 Section 10.403.
c. Please provide a fire lane. Call fire marshal for exact location. Chanhassen Fire
Department/Fire Prevention Policy #6-1991.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
12.
13.
14.
d. The post indicator valves will need to be provided with tamper protection. Chanhassen
Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #40-1995.
e. Fire department must witness flushing of underground mains which come in the building
for fire suppression systems. Chanhassen Fire Department/Fire Prevention Policy #40-
1995.
f. Please refer to the enclosed fire prevention policies for all requirements from the city of
Chanhassen in regards to this project.
g. Chanhassen Fire Department policy on fire alarm systems; Policy #1-1990.
h. Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on exterior light and horn over Fire Department
Sprinkler Connection; Policy #2-1990.
Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding site plans; Policy #4-1991.
Chanhassen Fire Department Policy requirements for fire lane signage; Policy #6-1991.
Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding pre-plans; Policy #7-1991.
Chanhassen Fire Department Policy regarding premise identification; Policy #29-1992.
Water Service Installation Policy for Commercial and Industrial Buildings; Policy #34-
1993 Chanhassen Fire Department Policy Maximum Allowed Size of Domestic Water
Service on a Combination Domestic Fire Sprinkler Supply Line; Policy #36-1994.
n. Chanhassen Fire Department of Fire Sprinkler Systems; Policy #40-1995.
o. Chanhassen Fire Department Policy on Labeling of Fire Rated Walls; Policy #44-1997.
Please contact Fire Marshal for exact size and location for installation of a lock box on the
side of the building for fire department access. MN Uniform Fire Code 1991 Section
10.302.
The applicant shall enter into a site development contract with the city and provide the
necessary financial security to guarantee compliance with the terms of approval.
All roof mounted equipment shall be screened by walls of compatible appearing material.
Wood screen fences are prohibited. All exterior process machinery, tanks etc. are to be fully
screened by compatible materials. As an alternative, the applicant can use factory applied
panels on the exterior to the equipment that would blend in with the building materials.
Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
15.
All freestanding signs shall be limited to monument signs. The sign shall not exceed eighty
(80) square feet in sign display area nor be greater than eight (8) feet in height. The sign
treatment is an element of the architecture and thus should reflect with the quality of the
development. A common theme will be introduced at the development's entrance
monument and will be used throughout. Each property shall be allowed one monument sign
located near the driveway into the private site. The monument sign must maintain a ten foot
setback from the property line. The signs should be consistent in color, size, and material
throughout the development. The applicant should submit a sign package for staff review.
A separate permit is required for all signage on site.
16.
Lighting for the interior of the business center should be consistent throughout the
development. A decorative, show box fixture (high pressure sodium vapor lamps) with a
square ornamental pole shall be used throughout the development area for area lighting. All
light fixtures shall be shielded. Light level for site lighting shall be no more than 1/2 foot
candle at the property line. This does not apply to street lighting. Lighting equipment
similar to what is mounted in the public street right-of-ways shall be used in the private
areas. Wall pack units may be used provided no direct glare is directed off-site and no more
than 1/2 foot candle of light is at the property line.
17. Park fees shall be paid in accordance with city ordinance requirements.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Blackowiak: Okay, I'll recommend the Planning Commission recommend approval of the
preliminary plat for Subdivision 98-3 to replat Outlot D into two lots, Chanhassen Business
Center 4th Addition as shown on the plans dated received February 13, 1998, subject to conditions
1 through 13 I believe.
Joyce: 13 conditions on this subdivision?
A1-Jafl5 Correct.
Joyce: Second?
Brooks: Second.
Blackowiak moved, Brooks seconded that the Planning Commission reconunend approval
of the preliminary plat for Subdivision 98-3 to replat Outlot D into 2 lots, Chanhassen
Business Center Fourth Addition, as shown on the plans dated received February 13, 1998,
subject to the following conditions:
1. Final plat shall be named Chanhassen Business Center 4th Addition.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
10.
11.
12.
13.
The developer shall dedicate to the City a 20-foot wide trail easement over the existing
trail adjacent to the Audubon Road and a 20-foot drainage and utility easement over the
proposed storm sewer extension to Lot 1.
The developer shall enter into an amendment to the development contract for Chanhassen
Business Center and provide the City with the necessary security and pay the associated
final plat fees.
The developer shall be responsible for extending sewer and water service to the
development. Sanitary sewer service shall be extended from Audubon Road for Lot 2 and
Lake Drive West for Lot 1. Open cutting of Lake Drive West shall be prohibited. The
developer will also be responsible for extending storm sewer service to Lot 1 from Lake
Drive West. All utility improvements shall be in accordance with the City's latest edition
of Standard Specifications and Detail Plates and/or State Plumbing Codes.
The developer shall prepare a grading, drainage, and erosion control plan for both lots for
review and approval by the City.
The applicant shall provide detailed storm sewer calculations and drainage maps for a 10-
and 100-year storm event, 24-hour duration for the City Engineer to review and approve
prior to final plat approval.
The developer shall apply for and obtain permits from the appropriate regulatory agencies,
i.e. Watershed District, and comply with their conditions of approval.
No berming or landscaping will be allowed within the right-of-way.
The applicant shall report to the City Engineer the location of any drain files found during
construction and relocate or abandoned the drain files as directed by the City Engineer.
If importing or exporting of earthwork material is necessary, a haul route and traffic
control plan shall be submitted to the City Engineer for review and approval prior to
construction commencing.
All areas disturbed as a result of construction activities shall be immediately restored with
seed and disc-mulched or wood fiber blanket and sod within two weeks of completion of
each activity in accordance with the City's Best Management Practice Handbook. All city
boulevards disturbed as a result of construction shall be re-sodded.
The proposed Industrial development of 4.84 net developable acres is responsible for a
water quantity fee of $21,102. This fee is due payable to the City prior to the City filing
the final plat.
DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
The development standards will remain the same as previously approved with the PUD.
The purpose of this zone is to create a PUD light industrial/office park. The use of the PUD zone
is to allow for more flexible design standards while creating a higher quality and more sensitive
proposal. All utilities are required to be placed underground. Each lot proposed for development
shall proceed through site plan review based on the development standards outlined below.
b. Permitted Uses
The permitted uses in this zone should be limited to light industrial, warehousing, and office as
defined below. The uses shall be limited to those as defined herein. Tfthere is a question as to the
whether or not a use meets the definition, the City Council shall make that interpretation.
Light Industrial. The manufacturing, compounding, processing, assembling, packaging, or
testing of goods or equipment or research activities entirely within an enclosed structure,
with no outside storage. There shall be negligible impact upon the surrounding
environment by noise, vibration, smoke, dust or pollutants.
2. Warehousing. Means the commercial storage of merchandise and personal property.
3. Office. Professional and business office, non-retail activity.
c. Setbacks
In the PUD standards, there is the requirement for landscape buffering in addition to building and
parking setbacks. The landscape buff'er on Audubon Road is 50 feet, south of Lake Drive and
TOO feet along the southern property line. The PUD zone requires a building to be setback 50 feet
from the required landscape buff'er and public right-of-ways. There is no minimum requirement
for setbacks on interior lot lines.
The following setbacks shall apply:
Building Parking
Audubon Road Buff'er & Setback 50' plus 50' 50' plus 10'
South Property Line & Setback TOO" plus 50' TOO' plus T0'
Front & Rear ROW on Lake Drive 25' T 5'
Interior Side Lot Line T0' T0'
Railroad Right of Way 30' 30'
Audubon Road south of Lake Drive T 00' T 00'
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
d. Development Standards Tabulation Box
Chanhassen Business Center Fourth Addition (Outlot D)
Chanhassen Business Center Fourth Addition (Outlot D)
Lot # Lot Size - Acres Building Sq. Ft. Building Impervious
Coverage
1 4.5 57,000 29% 60%
2 4.0 44,000 25% 60%
Subtotal 8.5 101,000 avg. 27% avg. 60%
The PUD standard for hard surface coverage is 70% for office and industrial uses. The proposed
development meets this standard with an average of 56% hard surface coverage.
Building Square Footage Breakdown
Office 20% 120,700 sq. fl.
Manufacturing 25% 150,875 sq. fl.
Warehouse 54.09% 326,425 sq. ft.
Church 0.91% 5,500 sq. ft.
Total 100% 603,500 sq. ft.
e. Building Materials and Design
1. The PUD requires that the development demonstrate a higher quality of architectural
standards and site design. All mechanical equipment shall be screened with material
compatible to the building,
2. All materials shall be of high quality and durable. Masonry material shall be used. Color
shall be introduced through colored block or panels and not painted block,
3. Brick may be used and must be approved to assure uniformity.
4. Block shall have a weathered face or be polished, fluted, or broken face.
5. Concrete may be poured in place, tilt-up or pre-cast, and shall be finished in stone,
textured or coated.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
10.
f. Site
1.
Metal siding will not be approved except as support material to one of the above materials
or curtain wall on office components or, as trim or as HVAC screen.
All accessory structures shall be designed to be compatible with the primary structure.
All roof mounted equipment shall be screened by walls of compatible appearing material.
Wood screen fences are prohibited. All exterior process machinery, tanks, etc., are to be
fully screened by compatible materials.
The use of large unadorned, prestressed concrete panels and concrete block shall be
prohibited. Acceptable materials will incorporate textured surfaces, exposed aggregate
and/or other patterning. All walls shall be given added architectural interest through
building design or appropriate landscaping.
Space for recycling shall be provided in the interior of all principal structures for all
developments in the Business Center.
Landscaping and Screening
All buff'er landscaping, including boulevard landscaping, included in Phase I area to be
installed when the grading of the phase is completed. This may well result in landscaping
being required ahead of individual site plan approvals but we believe the buff'er yard and
plantings, in particular, need to be established immediately. In addition, to adhere to the
higher quality of development as spelled out in the PUD zone, all loading areas shall be
screened. Each lot for development shall submit a separate landscaping plan as a part of
the site plan review process.
All open spaces and non-parking lot surfaces shall be landscaped, rockscaped, or covered
with plantings and/or lawn material.
Storage of material outdoors is prohibited unless it has been approved under site plan
review. All approved outdoor storage must be screened with masonry fences and/or
landscaping.
The master landscape plan for the CBC PUD shall be the design guide for all of the
specific site landscape developments. Each lot must present a landscape plan for approval
with the site plan review process.
Undulating or angular berms 3' to 4' in height, south of Lake Drive along Audubon Road
shall be sodded or seeded at the conclusion of Phase I grading and utility construction. The
required buff'er landscaping may be installed incrementally, but it shall be required where
it is deemed necessary to screen any proposed development. All required boulevard
landscaping shall be sodded.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Loading areas shall be screened from public right-of-ways. Wing wall may be required
where deemed appropriate.
g. Signage
All freestanding signs be limited to monument signs. The sign shall not exceed eighty (80)
square feet in sign display area nor be greater than eight (8) feet in height. The sign
treatment is an element of the architecture and thus should reflect with the quality of the
development. The signs should be consistent in color, size, and material throughout the
development. The applicant should submit a sign package for staff review.
Each property shall be allowed one monument sign located near the driveway into the
private site. All signs require a separate permit.
The signage will have consistency throughout the development. A common theme will be
introduced at the development's entrance monument and will be used throughout.
4. Consistency in signage shall relate to color, size, materials, and heights.
h. Lighting
Lighting for the interior of the business center should be consistent throughout the
development. The applicant's proposal is consistent with the lighting standards for the
PUD ordinance. The plans do not provide for street lighting. As with previous industrial
parks/roadways, the City has required the developer to install street lights throughout the
street system. The street lights should be designed consistent with the existing lighting
along Audubon Road.
A decorative, shoe box fixture (high pressure sodium vapor lamps) with a square
ornamental pole shall be used throughout the development area for area lighting.
3
Lighting equipment similar to what is mounted in the public street right-of-ways shall be
used in the private areas.
All light fixtures shall be shielded. Light level for site lighting shall be no more than 1/2
candle at the property line. This does not apply to street lighting."
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING:
CENTEX HOMES REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT TO REPLATE 4 LOTS
INTO 5 LOTS AND VACATION OF EXISTING DRAINAGE AND UTILITY
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
EASEMENTS ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED SOUTH OF LAKE
LUCY ROAD BETWEEN GALPIN BLVD. AND BRIARWOOD COURT~
WOODRIDGE HEIGHTS 3R° ADDITION.
Bob Generous presented the staff report on this item.
Joyce: Are there any questions for the staff'at this time?
Sidney: I guess Bob I was wondering if you could explain, I didn't quite understand when you
talked about a reduction of 10 feet in width to the landscape area. What that concern was.
Generous: A reduction of 10 feet what?
Joyce: On Lake Lucy Road.
Sidney: Yeah in the width of the landscape area. That's on page 3 at the bottom.
Generous: Oh they were, our city forester was concerned that they be able to provide all the
landscaping that they showed within the original subdivision within that area.
Aanenson: Streetscape.
Generous: Yes, we believe that that can go in there. They made the first lot a little bit wider.
Joyce: At this time would the applicant like to address the Planning Commission, please step
forward and give us your name and address please.
Ryan Gideon: Ryan Gideon with Centex Homes, 12400 Whitewater Drive, Suite 120,
Minnetonka, Minnesota. I'm available for any questions you might have. I would address your
concern or the issue of the lot against Lake Lucy Road. We would be likely restricting to one of
our narrower houses. The landscaping falls well within the 30 foot setback for a comer lot so
there shouldn't be any issues there.
Joyce: Any questions for the applicant at this time? Okay, I'd like to open this up for a public
hearing please. May I have a motion?
Blackowiak moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Joyce: Thank you. Would anybody like to address the Planning Commission on this topic?
Please step forward. Seeing none, I'd like to close the public hearing.
Blackowiak moved, Sidney seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
closed.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Joyce: Thank you. Comments. LuAnn?
Sidney: Seems fine to me. No problem.
Blackowiak: No problems. Relatively straight forward.
Brooks: I just have one quick question. The wetland is going to be protected somehow?
Generous: Yeah, it's on the southern end of this properly. One that shows up on the plat where
Lake Lucy... the mitigation is taking place in the large wetland complex in the western part.
Brooks: So there is wetland mitigation?
Generous: Yes. It was done as part of the original plat.
Brooks: Well with that I, it looks fine. I have no comments.
Joyce: Great. Can I get a motion please?
Brooks: I move the Planning Commission recommends approval of preliminary plat for
Woodridge Heights 3rd Addition and the vacation of the existing drainage and utility easements
encompassing Lots 13-16, Block 3, Woodridge Heights Addition, subject to the following
conditions 1 through 10.
Joyce: Okay. Can I have a second on that please?
Sidney: Second.
Joyce: Any discussion?
Brooks moved, Sidney seconded that the Planning Commission recommends approval of
preliminary plat for Woodridge Heights 3'`4 Addition and the vacation of the existing
drainage and utility easements encompassing Lots 13-16, Block 3, Woodridge Heights
Addition, subject to the following conditions:
1. The well and septic system abandonment for Lots 3 and 4 shall be coordinated with the
City's Building Inspection Division.
2. Typical water and sewer hook-up fees will be applicable and collected at time of building
permit issuance.
3. A revised as-built grading and utility plan and tie cards that reflect correct lot numbers and
plat name shall be supplied to the City upon completion of the utility extension to Lot 3.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
10.
The applicant shall be required to enter into an addendum to the development contract with
the City for Woodridge Heights 3rd Addition. The applicant shall also be responsible for
standard plat recording fees in accordance with City ordinance.
All disturbed areas as a result of grading shall be topsoiled, seeded and mulched within two
weeks after grading is completed.
The developer will be responsible for the extension of a one-inch water service and six-inch
sanitary sewer service from Briarwood Court to the lot. Utility installation shall be in
accordance with the City of Chanhassen 1998 Standard Specifications and Detail Plates.
This work is to be inspected by the City's Engineering Department. Utility extension to Lot
3 shall occur prior to the final lift of asphalt pavement being installed in Briarwood Court.
All street restoration shall be completed with 7 days after construction commences on the
utility service. One lane of traffic shall be maintained at all times. The contractor shall be
responsible for providing traffic control.
No direct lot access shall be permitted on to Galpin Boulevard or Lake Lucy Road.
The drain tile located at the rear of existing Lot 16 shall be relocated to accommodate the
new lots.
The addition lot will be required to have one deciduous tree planted in the front yard setback
area corresponding with the landscape plan for the other homes on Briarwood Court.
The proposed plat shall pay an additional park and trail fee for the additional one lot. Parks
and trail fees for the 3rd Addition shall be paid at the rate in effect at the time of building
permit application.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN - INFRASTRUCTURE.
Joyce: What we're going to do is have staff give us their presentation on the comprehensive plan
and this is not a public hearing. However, if people in the audience would like to step up and
make any kind of comment after their presentation, and after our discussion, I'll open it up for
that. Okay?
Aanenson: Thank you. Let me just follow through with your thoughts Kevin and explain where
we've been and where we're going with this process. Again this is a continuation of the
comprehensive plan update. The first time you saw this, it was more in an issue paper format.
We showed you the existing comp plan and some of the strengths and weaknesses and where we
were going with it. You have reviewed the land use and the housing elements so tonight you're
looking at the natural resource, parks and open space, transportation, sewer and water and the
capital improvements plan. As a part of that you're still missing two portions of the transportation
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
and the sewer and water. Under the transportation we're having a consultant working with Carver
County, SRF and Associates is doing the county wide study which we are participating in. So the
numbers we have on the streets, traffic volumes and some of the modeling is not completed, and it
is... component so what we're giving you is a large portion of it but some of the data that they'll
be giving certainly will make some changes. So we have to keep that in mind. The other is in the
sewer and water. Bonestroo gave the city an updated 1993-94 of the sewer and water plan. In
that there was some oversizing done based on some population estimates that were given at the
time and we've downsized it since then. So they're redoing the modeling. There's going to be
some minor changes but we just wanted to keep that in mind. Again this is still in draft form and
we'll be bringing those updates back to you obviously as a part of the process. Also, just to keep
everybody informed of where we're going with this. On April 22nd we do have a town meeting
scheduled and what we're planning on that is having an open house. Most of the department
heads will be there and a lot of staff and we'll have different areas set up where people if they're
interested in parks and rec or whether it be housing, natural resources. What we're doing with
wetland protection. Parks. There will be different areas and we want to get comments on that.
We think that sometimes that's an easier way for people to get their information. Write down
comments. Speak to somebody and get their questions answered so that's our town meeting that
we scheduled for April 22nd. And then in May, depending on how much questions. How many
questions. How much information, we'll be holding our public hearings in May. It will probably
be towards the end of May, unless the meeting on April 22nd, we've got everything back from
SRF and everything seems to be in place and the Bonestroo study and the questions or the
concerns aren't so significant and we have to go back and re-examine some issues. So May is
when we're planning the public hearing. So that's again an opportunity for the public to come in
and comment before this board. Then assuming that things stay on schedule, we're planning on
June City Council review and then hopefully by July and August we'll have this into the Met
Council who ultimately has to approve the adoption of the plan. So tonight's goal is to educate
you on the four elements I mentioned, the natural resources, parks and open space, transportation,
sewer and water and capital improvements. Again to explain to you information that we've
gathered and the changes that we've made to make sure that you're comfortable with the
information, or if you want to direct staff to get you additional information before we present this
at the Council or the town meeting in April. So I'd like to begin with the natural resources if you
want to turn to that section. We'll start with that one first. The City has got a lot of unique
natural resources which I think attracts a lot of people to this area. The lakes, the creeks, the river
corridors and the tree cover. The City has nine major lakes which makes very nice natural
resources. And in 1994 the City adopted a Surface Water Management Plan in order to be
concerned about the quality of those lakes and the asset that they provide. That storm water
management plan not only included water for the lakes but also the wetlands which helps protect
the lakes. So with that storm water management plan evolved a way to handle storm water
protection. It's serving all the existing wetlands that we have in the community. Which ones we
allowed to be, they ranked them. Which ones we allowed to be impacted and which ones we
wouldn't, and also established a way for collecting fees for quantity and quality so we could
provide a management system for handling storm water. We've also developed lake management
plans for all the major lakes within the city and those are the ways that we can help ensure the
quality of lakes by working with the Lake Associations and updating that information annually.
One of the problems that we see emerging with the lakes is water quality and things like Eurasian
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Milfoil and possibly the infiltration of other invaders so this is an ongoing issue and Phil's done a
really good job, Phil Elkin our Water Resource Coordinator, working with the lake associations.
Doing education. The other concern we see as the population increases is increased use by the
public of the lakes and again increasing their education and knowledge of ways that we can
handle impacting the lakes. An issue that's come up recently is jet skis. Legislature is discussing
that too. We've had some problems with that. Last year when we had high water on some of the
lakes, the jet skis and erosion of the shoreland. That's an ongoing issue that again is handled
under lake management so these are all the things as the population increases and we get more
activity on the lakes, that we need to be managing. And again I think we're moving in that
direction. Wetlands. In 1992 the State passed the Wetland Conservation Act but the City of
Chanhassen's been regulating wetlands since 1980 and again we think we continue to lead the
wetland section. As I said earlier, the storm water management plan has inventoried all the
wetlands in the City and we've been following with that program to ensure their quality. The
seminary fen which is located north of 212 has been classified as a pristine wetland and in 1995 it
was identified by the Minnesota Biological Surveys as one of the most important sites in
Hennepin, Carver and Scott Counties so certainly that's an area, the 90 acres there that we need to
preserve and we think that's a very unique area. So we've got goals for protecting flood
protection, water quality, wetland protection and we recently embarked on a creek and river
corridor protection. We're again in a unique situation to have a creek running the entire length of
this city. Actually we have Bluff Creek and Riley which runs through a significant portion of the
city. So the part of, another evolution of the Storm Water Management Plan was the completion
of this Bluff Creek Corridor, Natural Resources Plan. The City Council has given approval of the
first reading. They're exploring some opportunities. Different ways to acquire some of the land
besides just the overlay district that we're proposing. We hope that soon they will be adopting the
second reading of that and we'll have that ordinance in place. Again we think that's very unique
to what a lot of other communities are doing as far as protecting and natural resource corridor.
One of the issues that we need to be looking at in the future is ground water protection because
Chanhassen's entire water supply is generated from deep wells, we need to make sure that we
take measures to protect this resource so we are setting up a system of making sure that we're
testing wells regularly and setting a system in place to making sure that on site septic systems,
which we do have a significant number of because of our large lot subdivisions, ensuring those are
being monitored and Bob will talk about that a little bit in the sewer section.., monitoring those so
we ensure the ground water protection. And another element of natural resources not related to
water is tree cover and again tree cover is an important element and I think one of the things
we've done by hiring a forester and the work that Jill's done is taking in a number of steps in
preservation and restoration. Whether it's streepscape or helping educate people to plant in the
right way to ensure that trees do succeed in surviving and then just working with developers. Try
to get again, move away from the format to other developments to try to save significant trees. So
we want to again try to work to make sure that we've got a diversity of trees in the city and we're
ultimately working towards a forestry management plan to make sure that we have continued
maintenance and management ongoing so that we do have a healthy tree cover. And the last issue
is the wildlife. Again, with the Bluff Creek Management Plan. The movement of the diversity,
especially on the other end of the city, the diversity of the wildlife species is important. Then just
a little blurb on the agricultural preservation. Again, we just put that in there. It relates back to
the land use too. Although agricultural preservation has not been adopted, the City certainly
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
attempts to maintain and preserve the character of the natural environment. So we did put some
goals in there. I'm not going to go through those specifically. All of the goals. If you had
questions on that, I'd be happy to answer any of those but that's, it's written a lot different than
what we had in our previous plan and we think this is an area that the city has been a leader in and
continues to do.
Joyce: Any questions...
Brooks: I just want to say that I'm glad that the issue of agricultural character preservation was
addressed. I'm happy to see that in there. I think it's very important to address it. To the vision
we want for Chanhassen and how we want Chanhassen to look in the future.
Conrad: ... absolutely excellent.
Aanenson: Exciting because you can see it. What we've done over the years. It dates going
back to 1980. The other people that have had the vision.
Joyce: Are we going to have a program for planting trees and...
Aanenson: Right. Every year we do that and it's tied in with Arbor Day and some of the funds
that we get through DNR, matching funds. And then ultimately what we're recommending...
back with a long term forestry plan with the percentage of cover. A percent coverage for the city
and working in those areas to put streetscape on the street. In the past sometimes we've put it
further back. Well a lot of that's education too. Educating people and then we put trees in and
sometimes you need to take, people need to take ownership of that tree and water it and care for
it. Make sure it's not abused. Those sort of things so we're working on that and that's a program
where we picked out a couple streets.
Joyce:...
Aanenson: Yeah, well the other thing that Jill tried last year is we did the tree coupons and...
picking out a couple of streets and working that way and that worked good to get people to go in
as a neighborhood and she's been meeting with a couple that have the trails going through. Trying
to come back with some plans. One of the things that came up with the Council is where we have
easements for ponds because that's one of the issues that we need to be addressing too is we put
these storm water management, these storm ponds in to manage the water before they go into the
wetland. Over time we need to come up with a plan, how we're going to clean up the ponds. We
do have easements to those because we have anticipated that. While the development's under
construction, the developer is obligated to keep it clean until they're out. And then it becomes the
City's responsibility but over time we need to develop a plan of how we're going to go in
and.., but the problem we have is in some circumstances.., planted trees on our easements to get
in. So again it's an education thing. We certainly want to encourage people to plant but we need
to make sure they're in the right spots. Those are some of the things that we'll be working on.
Educating.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Joyce: Where's the farmers market going?
Aanenson: ... trying to work with the Chamber on that, yeah.
Blackowiak: ...that's all right, I'll jump right in here. I'm not shy. Seminary fen. A couple
questions I guess. First, you mentioned the DNR. At one point in time I had heard that the DNR
was looking to potentially do an office site or something at the old seminary, which is no longer.
Have they expressed any interest or stated anything about trying to locate some type of field office
at that spot?
Aanenson: They had, and it was predicated on getting funding from the legislature, which they
weren't. It is privately held. The property owner has requested numerous times to be serviced by
Chaska. The City has a plan, the comprehensive plan for sewer and water and that has been
approved that shows how we can get down there and service it. We're saying that we would not
let Chaska service it as long as we can and just because we won't be down there today doesn't
mean that we have to give up our rights to service the property. We think it's a very unique, it's
the most unique, as we indicated, in the three county area. It doesn't make sense to try to do
something with it right away. Number one, preservation.
Blackowiak: I agree totally. I mean you're saying that there are, there should be protection and
preservation policies to take care of this resource. What policies?
Aanenson: It's handled in the wetland.
Blackowiak: Yeah, and that would be in the wetland because it's defined as a pristine wetland
which allows significant more setbacks and land use around it. What we've given it, the land use
there is a corporate office. We see someone that would be a corporate steward. There is some
upland area. The property owner that.., it might be interesting to just put a sentence or two in
here stating that it would fall under the jurisdiction of wetland management or something to that
effect because it says you know we should preserve it but it doesn't say by what means we plan to
do that. That might be a little bit, might clarify that a little bit more. Thank you.
Aanenson: ... move to open space. Okay. Map up that shows, this was done during the
referendum of parks and trails. It's somewhat dated. We've acquired some other pieces since
then but certainly parks and open space planning is a significant portion of the City's land use and
recreation's as important to the residents that live in the community. There's a couple ways that
we can get property through acquisition and regulating acquisition be it land easements,
condemnation or donation or purchase. Like for example trails that we get easements for it to put
trails on. The second way is getting it through zoning regulations and subdivision. When a
developer comes in for a subdivision, there's an opportunity for an extraction based on either a
cash donation or land and the park commission.., that exercise to decide whether or not they
wanted land or if they wanted to take a cash donation to put improvements in that park... In this
document we have to also comply with regulations that are laid out by the Met Council but they
give some criteria of how much acreage you should have based on your population and service
area which is on page 2. Which we certainly meet or exceed. We have the opportunity to have
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum in our city, which is 935 acres. We also have a regional
park which is over the Lake Minnewashta Regional with 350 acres. We also have the National
Wildlife Refuge which comprises 14,000 acres on the southern end of the city so we really do
have a significant open space. While they have different, a little bit different missions or
purposes, their open space is that... Then we break it down more into the private facilities which
we have Camp Tanadoona, which is a beautiful facility on 63 acres and then Bluff Creek golf
course which is 228 acres. The City has numerous community and neighborhood parks and those
are pointed out in the table that we put in place in the facilities that go with it. Most of the
development and future for parks will probably be neighborhood parks. If you look what we've
guided.., development will be occurring south of Lyman where we've got that residential. There
may be opportunities based on the 212 separation of neighborhoods you've got there, which will
be on the east side but on the west side south of Lyman, that area's a little bit
topographically.., may be an area there for a neighborhood park that the Park Commission would
be examining. But with the Bluff Creek corridor and the opportunity for acquisition along there,
there certainly will be more passive opportunities. Back to the park and trail map that was put
together for the referendum. You can see a series of trail connections and the location of the
existing parks. What's again not shown on there is the linear acquisition that we'll be acquiring
along Bluff Creek which you're aware of and certainly adds significant acreage. The park
commission has been moving away from always acquiring active areas and seeing the importance
of preserving natural space. Open space. So some of the parks that we have or some of the
dedication that we've done in the past, sometimes includes just trees. Conservation areas which
we've even done conservation easements on the plats which provides an opportunity to preserve
significant natural features. Or just even open space with park dedication so in the past I think
there's been a big demand for ballfields, scheduling opportunities. I think the Park and Recreation
Commission certainly has seen the wisdom in just trying to provide.., and what that does and
that's certainly a lot of the reason behind the Bluff Creek ordinance. The overlay provides the
clustering of preserving that. So with the park referendum there was an opportunity, acquisition
and the trails. They're going forward with the trails, Council has I believe awarded the bid for
that. Or putting the bid together. Plans and specs. The bids haven't been awarded yet so they'll
be putting those together. They've kind of met with all the neighbors and pretty finalized as far as
where it's going to go. They're just waiting for the bids, the plans and specs to be put together to
go out to bid so then the second component of that would be acquisition of some open space. So
the Park and Rec Director has been working at several areas, working with the task force and
they've gotten ideas and so that still hasn't come and that's part of what wove into the Bluff Creek
that the Council's looking into. Is there an opportunity maybe even in that area for some
acquisition and how does that relate to the Bluff Creek ordinance. So we've kind of moved a lot
from the active, some of the other needs that we have. So I don't think we're.., additional, besides
Bandimere, another large community park where we're scheduling softball but we will see a
couple other neighbor active parks and then acquisition of open space. This section will be going
to the Park Commission at their next meeting just for their review and then they'll spend more
time documenting.., so by the April meeting they'll have made changes that they want to it back to
you. But the Park and Rec Director has looked at it. So again we've got the goals and policies in
place if you have any questions on that we'd be happy to answer those.
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Blackowiak: I just have one question and I think I may have to call Todd for the answer on this
but on page 8, where it talks about existing acreage in the park system. Does the formulas for
computing the existing acreage include wetlands? Because it seems to me that it's somewhat over
stated on this existing acreage. And I know that this was a question before that we had had maybe
a year or so ago on the park task force and I'm not sure if it did.
Aanenson: It doesn't on neighborhood. The only one I can think that it may on the wildlife
refuge.
Blackowiak: Well I mean I laughed because Rice Marsh Lake Park, which I live by, is located
right in my neighborhood and is shown as being you know 100 acres or something and that's like
1 dry acre and 99 wet so.
Aanenson: ... right, it's an open space protected but you're right. How much upland is it that's
useable.
Blackowiak: Yeah I would just be curious as to how those numbers were derived.
Aanenson: Whether they're like gross or net.
Blackowiak: Exactly. So I don't know ifI should call Todd or...
Aanenson: Yes, that's a good point.
Conrad: Is that the page that's supposed to be there?
Aanenson: Yes. It's actually, it was in the previous one too. It's just over a typical trail
construction... That's fine you know.
Conrad: It's way out of context you know so.
Generous: It's part of the checklist that the Met Council has.
Aanenson: They wanted it in there, you know. There's certain criteria that they want. The
matrix of the different parks. What a typical trail would look like.
Conrad: The standards that are set, 13 acres per 1,000 people. 5 acres per 1,000... Where did
those come from?
Aanenson: Those are the Met Council numbers. On page 2.
Conrad: Page 8.
Aanenson: Those came from the previous comprehensive plan that was developed by the Park
and Rec Commission, and that's actually what Todd uses for his ratio in the ordinance. Park and
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Rec uses .75 acres per household and he comes up with rationale and that equates to... or an
acreage fee.
Conrad: You say those are good numbers and we basically, the rest of the grid's down there said
that we have enough park system right now. That's what it says. You don't need to really
expand. Maybe a few tweaks but for the next 20 some years we don't really need much, is the
way I read it.
Aanenson: Right. If we go back to what we said, what we have in land use and it's kind of
deceiving. We have parks and open space and then we have public open space so if you go back
to what we have in the land use, it's actually.., the parks and open space.
Generous: There's one other thing. In neighborhood parks you have service areas and so that's
why we think that's where our concentration will be in the future.
Blackowiak: Is that a half mile?
Generous: Quarter.
Blackowiak: Quarter mile, okay.
Aanenson: So if you look at parks and open space, in the year 2020, it will be 12 %. Right now
we're at, in 1991 we were at 17% so it will be 12% but if you add public and semi-public, that
would be the Arboretum, Camp Tanadoona, those it actually comes up to 20% of the city would
be protected in open space. And that's based on this land use. Putting it on the computer
generated, what does the land use equate to. It's 20% of the city is in open space of some type
and some of it, like the golf course is public and the Arboretum is public, semi-public but that's a
pretty good number.
Conrad: Compared to other cities it's probably pretty high.
Aanenson: Right. And the anomalies we've got the wildlife refuge. We've got the Arboretum.
Conrad: So we're counting up that wildlife refuge?
Aanenson: Right. Right.
Conrad: The impact of higher density that we're trying to get, is that incorporated in these
numbers? In other words, have we looked at the housing chapter?
Aanenson: It will be higher. That's what I'm saying. This would probably be in the bottom end
because if we do the cluster zoning along the creek, you're actually going to have more because
what was taken as totally green, if you followed Bluff Creek, the green, that was a minimum. It
doesn't follow the primary zone so it may go up.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Conrad: Is it planned to have absence charts in here that would, I'm not looking at, some of the
details on individual parks just are meaningless to me very seriously. They're just definitely, but
a system is important.
Aanenson: This map will be part of the document and we'll have a park and trail map with... All
the parks on the maps and the linkages. That will be part of the comprehensive plan.
Conrad: And what are we doing with the open space plan?
Aanenson: Well this shows on here they're identified on here too like the Arboretum is identified.
The regional park is identified. All that will be on one.
Conrad: So basically it says what we have is, our open space plan is what we have.
Aanenson: No. Our open space plan is also the comprehensive plan where we've guided parks
and open space is also on the comprehensive plan.
Conrad: What is our open space plan? I don't see it in here. I think it's merged with park and
rec. I don't know what our open space plan is.
Aanenson: Well I think it follows too through with the goals.
Conrad: There's only one goal and it doesn't, there are 23 goals in the natural resources. There's
one goal here that doesn't say anything.
Aanenson: Well yeah. I think those are probably written in a goal form, we would put them more
in goal policy. As development comes in we go through the exercise as we indicated before to
either take land or fee extraction. One or the other. Again based on the ratio.., but the
comprehensive plan shows in the future where we're going to put the significant portions of open
space. We've got the Degler farm on there. That was one area that was identified for possible
acquisition. South of Lyman.
Conrad: But that's not in what I'm reading here so how do I know that? I think things were
identified real clearly in natural resources. They're even, they're clear in transportation. I don't
have a clue in this section. I really don't. There are a lot of nice words but they don't, I really
don't know what we stand for here and I'll just challenge Park and Rec. This is real soft. We
are, we do have a lot of parks. I'm real comfortable with where we are by the way, but in terms
of a chapter in our book, this doesn't say. This doesn't commit us to anything. It just says we
really do have what we need basically. This is my bottom line and it's just you know 30 words or
less.
We've over parked and so we're just going to, as we grow, we've got enough and we'll infill
here. We'll put neighborhood parks in. We really don't have any other major needs. Okay,
that's my summary and you lwo know more than I do but I have, after I read that, I don't see
things that I'd like to see put in. A terrific job on Bluff Creek trail but there's nothing here.
We're doing a terrific job I think in the trail system but there's nothing here. We talk open space
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
but I don't have a, you know how are we doing that? Well we're doing it by the natural, we're
doing it by three pieces that we already have so it's done. So we're not doing anything you know.
So I don't, it's not a forecast to me. It's not a 20 years out. It's not here's where we could, take a
look back at natural resources. That tells me what we want to do. What we want to accomplish.
Where we're going. Transportation to a degree does the same thing. This says we're okay.
Blackowiak: Well I'd like to add one thing. When you say we're banking of the large pieces.
For example Tanadoona could very easily be sold. So either the city comes up with the money to
buy it, or something else is going to happen. And I mean maybe we need to address that as well.
Aanenson: The Council's addressed that same issue.
Blackowiak: In the comp plan. I mean do we need to mention that?
Aanenson: Right, that was one of their comments. Yes. That's a good point.
Conrad: It sort of says we will do what we can afford to do here. We kind of have what we
need. But we're not really flaunting the stuff that we've really done very well here and it's not
talking out to me. It's just not jumping and that's, again we're doing this a little bit for the Met
Council but it doesn't set a vision for me and therefore it won't set a vision for other people that
are maybe trying to direct where we're going in the park and rec area so again, if we have an open
space policy, I'd like to. It says Chanhassen will try to protect open spaces when they become
available and we will pursue buying them. Something like that. I don't know. I don't have a
commitment to that.
Aanenson: We do in the capital improvements plan and we'll go through that but you're right.
We need to weave that a little bit.
Joyce: Kate, I assume that when the parks come in front of us, it goes through the same process?
I've been here a couple years and never had a park come in front of me so I...
Aanenson: What we'll do is we'll show you the changes that they wanted. Some of the changes
that...
Joyce: But they have like a site plan review and all that kind of thing?
Aanenson: Oh!
Joyce: How does the park work?
Aanenson: Yes, they're supposed to. They're supposed to come in front of you. I think we did
Roundhouse Park. I think you saw that. I don't know if you were. That's the one at
Minnewashta Parkway. That came before you.
Joyce: Oh yeah, I remember that. I'm sorry...
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Aanenson: Yeah, right. And then you know Bandimere and did we, City Center Park. But you
did see the one on Minnewashta, I know that.
Joyce: I know the one on Minnewashta. I wasn't here but I remember. The only other thing I
wanted to say, and I'11... torch from Ladd but in looking at these parks, there sure are a lot of
ballfields and soccer fields and hockey rinks and stuff but it'd be nice to have, I remember Ladd
saying once about an amphitheater and it struck me... all these playing field parks. It'd be nice to
have one of them...
Conrad: Maybe that's where this needs to be. I haven't figured out where that amphitheater
should be in terms of a section but yeah.
Joyce: The only other thing I can say is that they mentioned it in the Lake Minnewashta Regional
Park. Future plans...
Aanenson: That'd be long term because the next think they'd probably do in 5 to 10 years would
be a picnic shelter and that's really in their 5 to 10 year plan.
Joyce: I just think that one of the, in the introduction maybe it should mention this, provide
facilities for a growing and diverse population .... diversity of the population will be all of us are
going to age here, and I'm not going to be able to use a ballfield or a hockey rink or anything else.
Sure would like to be in Chanhassen 20 years from now and I think I'd like to... some sort of
gathering spot where you'd have...
Conrad: That's a little bit of my concern with the whole chapter. There's just not a lot.., which
we have been but there's not specifics in there and I'd sure like to challenge the Park and Rec to
really think of specifics.
Joyce: I think there's a definition of parks... I like to be innovative with parks too like everything
else you put here. Like Ladd said, natural resources.
Conrad: Now he's getting me going again. Those are the things we should be committed to,
whether there's budget there or not. And the connectivity in terms of trails is really important.
And there may not be budget to do it but there should be a policy, or a goal that says we will
connect all of Chanhassen so that they can get downtown without using a car. Now maybe we
can't do that money wise but I tell you, I think you look at some of the things that the study said
that lead right into some very definite things that we should be shooting for. If we don't say that
we're going to shoot for them, we're not going to get there.
Brooks: Well to back you up, I think if you wait for the budget, it stops you from looking at
innovative funding sources. That's what I mean so that's why I agree with you. I think we should
go ahead and try to commit to it and that will force us to look for money from other places. I
mean it could be a private donation. It could, it doesn't have to come from regular tax sources. I
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
want to third that amphitheater idea. I think it's a really great idea and I think it has nothing to do
with aging because I think...
Joyce: Well no... but it just seemed like there was an over preponderance of.
Brooks: There is and it makes a nice gathering spot I think. A different type of gathering spot for
parents with kids as well as empty nesters and it's a gathering spot that brings everybody in the
city. Like you're saying, not just when you go to a ballfield you're just going for a specific
reason and not everybody goes.
Joyce: You exclude a portion of the population...
Brooks: Right, exactly. And the amphitheater really brings everybody together.
Joyce: The farmers market, great idea. I think it will be very successful.
Brooks: ... Minneapolis with their open band shells and I know...
Joyce: That's our comments I guess.
Generous: Transportation then, which was a perfect lead in with the trail. That's one of the things
we were trying to... emphasis to provide the linkages throughout the community and outside the
community .... connect the whole community for, and I think our trail plan does that. At least it
shows... The transportation element, at first we wanted to try to point out some of our
accomplishments. The City has been very proactive on working on transportation issues and so
we go through a list of things that we have done. We've taken the lead in trying to upgrade our
road system. As the discussion before, we're an opt out community. We have, we're working to
provide better transit opportunities and we're working on the trail system. Multi mode of
transportation... Chanhassen, there's a street system shows us growing very fast. Since 1990
we've doubled the amount of roadway that we have in the community. About 140 miles of
roadway. Just 8 years ago we were at... so a phenomenal rate of growth for our road system. I
hadn't thought about it. I'd like to compare what our trail system was 8 years ago and show that.
We are improving on that. With the referendum we know that we're adding some significant
segments into the trail system and... In developing a transportation plan at least then the road
system you have to classify different roadways and their functions and so we've put that
information in there up front with the previous plan was twice as long as this one and everything
was pushed all over and we tried to consolidate them out of the information in one area so we talk
about the function of a lot of our roadways based on the different classification. I should point out
that we had discussion with Council at a work session and they have problems with the
classification that we'll be looking at. Making revisions to. Part of the problem with the
classification system is we need the Eastern Carver County study to be complete...
recommendations in the future. The big issue that comes out of here is we can find out what our
transportation deficiencies are, insufficiencies are so we don't have the map. Now again, that will
come out of the study.., problem areas. Areas currently and long term and most of us are familiar
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
with them but we'll have the hard data to show us exactly where they are and maybe some
phasing information to help us address those.
Aanenson: I just want to add there.., take away from what Bob was saying is, we have to look at
a 212 and a no 212 build out. That's one of the scenarios because our concern is that we may be
built out before 212 does and that is a significant impact for those people on Pioneer and Lyman
because the road classification would change and it's going to be a lot, the only way to stop that is
to say we're not going to grow and I'm not sure that would solve the problem because a lot of our
impact is being done by what's happening to the west of us. So that's a significant issue and we
need to make sure we're addressing that. East west transit is a problem and Chaska's also
growing very fast and a lot of that traffic is coming, in the mornings if you're going down Pioneer
or Lyman, it's heavy and it's only going to continue to grow. We're not going to be down there
for a number of years yet either but it's other people's, so we're waiting to see what those
numbers means and again, if we don't build 212, what are the implications and that may change
the classifications of some of our streets and they may be able to handle more traffic.
Generous: I'd go beyond that and I'd say they will...to carry more traffic. What we're trying to
do is provide assistance so our citizens can get around town without having to hop on their arterial
roadways. That's access boulevards on Highway 5. On both sides of Highway 5 and that's what
some of the connectors are north of TH 5. So we need to look at that. Capacity is the general
problem that we mn into... Trunk Highway 101, both north and south of Highway 5. The litany
of the deficiencies go on and on and so we tried to address that as best we can and saying that
these are the things that we need to improve. One of the things that we'll have to look at in the
future is trying to prioritize those improvements.., ultimate funding sources. We've provided,
there are some local connections that we specifically addressed on page 13 of this. Roadways
that come together or almost come together and aren't connected and so we wanted to specifically
point out that in time these areas will be connected. They'll provide for the local means for
people to get from one side of the community to another. Another issue is maybe sometimes
where we have cul-de-sacs that are abutting each other and maybe instead of putting the roadway
through.., at least at a minimum the pedestrian connections.., and to our major collector roadway
system and where we're putting out sidewalk and trail systems. A lot of technical data in this.
The traffic analysis. We looked at population, households and employment from 1990 to 2020.
This is the data that was provided to SRF to do their transportation study. One of the interesting
elements that we found in doing this is the City of Chanhassen has a significant number of home
businesses. We believe this trend will continue and this data will incorporate that. Then the final
thing is as you looked at the plan and recommended improvements. Again we go back to the list
of deficiencies and what we want to do. Unfortunately we still have to wait on the study to find
out if this is all.., if we need more improvements or and how to prioritize those. We did expand
on the transit element. The system that was in place in 1990 has grown with Southwest Metro.
They have reverse commute, express services, circulator services through the different
communities.., transportation and management strategies are something that we have pushed
more as developments come in, Arboretum Business Park for instance is one of their.., that
investigate and use those opportunities where it's possible. We have the light rail transit is one of
the elements.., programs that we can look at. We've added commuter rail to this as an
opportunity. Back to trails and sidewalks. We want to get that intricate.., and finally the need to
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
implement that.., city alone. We have to work with other agencies. The goal is to create a multi
mode of transportation system which permits the safe, efficient and effective movement of people
and goods. That remains the same. As part of this, we mentioned what we have incorporated
more pedestrian and bicycle policies as part of the policies and so that basically is the whole
presentation.
Burton: On page 8 at the top it refers to Trunk Highway 101 and Great Plains Boulevard. Is that
TH 101 and Great Plains don't match up anymore do they?
Aanenson: It's the south.
Burton: I don't know if it's referring to the one road or.
Generous: It used to come down 78th and then around and over but I believe now we look at TH
101 coming to TH 5 and then over to Market.
Burton: I just think it's kind of outdated perhaps. And then the graph that you talk about the
traffic analysis zone and just looking at it when we were reading this didn't make much sense
without a key. I think you have to have some type of key on there so.
Generous: ... we'll provide that map.
Burton: Okay, and then the only other thing I had was, I like the goals but I like things to perhaps
incorporate the policies and the next page being compatible with the surrounding environment and
perhaps even preserving the aesthetics or the agricultural characteristics. Perhaps incorporating
that into the goal. I don't know if that's appropriate or not but it would be nice. That does seem
more of a goal than a policy too.
Generous: It's the one on the top of page 24.
Burton: Yeah I added the agricultural part. That's all I have.
Brooks: I'm not the expert on this. I'm just a big whiner. I think what you've done is really
good. The information is there. My only criticism is I would like to see implementation of the
recommended system expanded dramatically. When I read this I see inter agency cooperation but
you don't talk about what type and how and I think that really should be expanded. I think they
should be all broken out and it should be discussed. What kind of cooperation you're looking for.
I think particularly with Hennepin County there's two areas we need to discuss. One obviously is
situations like Trunk Highway 101. The other one is, I think we should really discuss they're
doing a commuter rail study. There's one on light rail and there should be something in here on
how we're going to piggy back so they're not running on their own and how we plan to cooperate
with them. Who is the contact person for that. I think that should be in the plan. Not the name
like John Smith but it should be the Chanhassen Planner or the Carver Regional Rail person or
whoever will be coordinating with the Hennepin County regional rail person to ensure that Carver
is part of any light rail study because otherwise what will happen to us is light rail will end at the
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Hennepin County border and we don't want that but I really feel strongly that this section really
needs to be flushed out in detail because part of a plan is the implementation. That's the most
important part. Funding sources. This is where I felt that the consultant was sort of falling down
on the job for us. I was really hoping and looking for the consultant to look for specific funding
sources. List them as to what they are and start matching them up with projects as to what is our
best means of finding funding? Is it ISTEA for Project A? Is it county money for Project B? Is it
city money? Really list the projects, list the funding sources. And especially talk about ISTEA
and I think one of the things we need to look at too and whether this is part of the plan or not, is
sort of being a watchdog on the planning commission I noticed that one of the things that's
happening over at the Met Council on ISTEA that I've been vocal about and not happy about is
that they have a lot of committee members from Dakota County and Hennepin County and I
talked to Nancy Mancino about this. Who magically write their own plans, submit them to the
committee that they happen to be sitting on and amazingly things get funded. How do you
imagine that happens? But I mean that's seriously happening over there and we do not have good
representation for Carver County on it's, we have representation on the TAV but we do not have
representation on the committees and it's the committees level where the funding is coming in and
we are really, really losing out on that. Dakota County and Hennepin County have been really
very good about stacking those committees. I have a list of everybody on the committee. If
you'd like to see that, I'd be happy to show you but we're falling behind and we're going to keep
falling behind and now that Congress is looking at giving us more ISTEA money, I think our area
really needs to make a big push and I think more of us could volunteer to sit on these
transportation committees and be a part of it and, if Hennepin and Dakota Counties can write their
own grants and review their own grants, well I think we could be writing our own grants and
reviewing our own grants too. But that's why to me implementation should be really, really,
really flushed out. That's where the plan is. That's the vision part. That's my lecture.
Conrad: I feel more comfortable with this section. I think the background's good. We're doing
the study so I know we know what we're doing. We reference 212... and it's like we think it's
the solution and it's probably not. I don't know. That's the only uncomfortable part here. It's
stated over and over again, 212 will be... and it may not happen... It's like we're being naive to
put it in there because potentially, well I don't know.
Brooks: ... before, we put it in there but we push for how we're going to get it funded.
Something else I noticed that's happening that we're missing out on is that some of these counties
have consultants going to Washington D.C. to get money for the project. It's become sort of the
new thing. The consultant gets the funding for the project and then of course magically gets to
work on a project. But that's, I've watched Anoka County doing that quite a bit and you know if
maybe we decide that we want 212 and we're going to, if it's political we're going to go out and
we're going to get the funding if it means a lot of money.
Aanenson: The Council's moving in that direction. Starting to have those discussions. How are
we going to accomplish this? Because I think as Bob indicated, as maybe you.., it's going to take
a lot of... If you read in the paper today how much Carver County is growing. Whether we chose
to grow or not, as I said before, we're impacted by it.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Conrad: So Kate, you know what's the purpose of this section?
Aanenson: To outline the deficiencies and it ties back into this capital improvements plan and
Allyson's point is right and the same thing came up in the park and rec. What we need to do is
show you better how we've identified those funding sources because there's state aid money.
There's federal money. There's Met Council money and we did put that in the capital
improvement plan and maybe we need to do it better. It's to show deficiencies. How we're
going to connect those, and again it give prioritization out there for people to understand where
our connection's need to be. Where our deficiencies are and how the Council... Now we've got a
20 year capital improvement program that we reviewed annually but they have to decide which is
the greater priority and that's the tough part of the Council. But that's really what this is for. To
show where our roads are going to be in the future and that's when those ultimately those numbers
come back and say, we're going to... even longer list of deficiencies and then how do we plan for
those. Where do we bring our MUSA in based on that? Where do we put our resources?
Conrad: But if212 is not funded, and there's no funding in the next 20 years right? So what are
the, help me. It's there. It's in our plan and it's going to off load some traffic but it's not funded
so how do you plan with an unfunded road that would off load traffic off of TH 5 a little bit?
Aanenson: Other roads have to carry more volume.
Brooks: I think also what we're saying that we need to get away from is MnDOT doesn't have
212 in their plan to build it so if we want it, we can.., other ways to get funding. There are plenty
of counties out there that are just going to their congressional delegation and saying...
Aanenson: And that was the intent with the toll road. That was a creative way that somebody
came up with to try to find a way. This is a demonstration.
Brooks: There's other ways but I think we need to get away from saying well ifMnDOT says
no, then we drop the whole thing.
Aanenson: I think Allyson's right. We need to maybe be a little bit more creative.., capital
improvements because we have identified resources in there but to say who's going to take
ownership and that's what I hear you saying. Who's going to do this? Who's going to be
responsible for following through on these issues? That's an important part of it.
Conrad: Would you do anything different in this plan if you knew 212 wouldn't ever happen?
Generous: Yeah, to expand the mass transit portion.
Conrad: But what would you do to Highway 5? Anything? Anything can be done to TH 5?
Generous: The traffic study that said if you six lane it, it works.
Aanenson: Yeah, they still can't do it. That's what we're saying.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Generous: We'd have to encourage more people to live and work here.
Aanenson: Not to drive.
Generous: So they don't have to get out.
Conrad: Okay.
Generous: Sewer policy plan. Again the consultant is working on updating this. We had a
comprehensive sewer policy plan and a comprehensive water.., required to explain the system...
We have significant investment in our water and sewer infrastructure. The first part of it is...
sewer. One of the big problems with the sewer system is inflow and infiltration which is causing
us to clean clear water. The City is proactive in trying to resolve those issues. We had an
inspection program that started last year and should be completed this year so we've been.., some
of the inflow through sump pumps. We had improvements to our systems specifically in the
downtown area. Again we tried to go and say what we've done to help improve this. It's all in a
system. We have lift stations and pipes that need to be done. The plan basically shows where it's
going to go. This is really tied in with the MUSA expansion plan and that's just how we
anticipate the community developing and then this is the actual technical... We tried to project
what sewer usage was for... It's interesting that the commercial and industrial usage per gallon
per acre is done... This allows for more diverse development. Greater water users.., city being
fully developed around 2020 and so this is what the plan is based on and how do we get to there.
What our flow rates would be. Based on that, we've done this in-house so we'll have to wait for
the consultant but it looks like we will be under our allocation... We had to address on site
treatment systems. We anticipate that we probably will have about.., using our large lot
subdivisions...large portion ofthe community. Since 1987 we've required two drainfields for
septic systems so if one fails they have the... The City is looking at, has done and will continue to
do a... septic owners to show them how to, make sure that they're systems work adequately. The
public safety department is trying to institute an inspection program to go out and check all...
required so they're moving forward on that. I keep reminding them every time I go in and ask
them to update our comprehensive plan on our IST... and yes, that was supposed to be done last
year and we'll do it. It's in the process right now so... updating this. Under future subdivisions on
page 12 we did add a policy. The last paragraph under, in future subdivisions. It says with the
exception of existing large lot subdivisions, parcels of land currently in existence or developed
land outside the MUSA that maintains a 1 unit per 10 acre density, the city will no longer permit
residents to... That is a change in the policy and... Next is the water system. Again we had to
explain the existing system. Our trunk distribution map is in the process of being revised. We
know that from the 1993 plan, the number of houses being reduced from what we ultimately
predicted because.., reduced the number of ultimate build out population. And we go and explain
the existing systems. There is a new schematic in here that takes into account the entire
community, not just everything north of Highway 5... funding systems. We've expanded 429
projects have become a significant way to expanding our trunk utility system. So we discussed
additional projects that were done through that process.
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Aanenson: ... 429 would be an assessment project. The City carries the debt and then we assess it
back.., so that's how we've done a lot of our improvements. We've even gone back and done
records on that using that assessment process such as...
Generous: ... policy just for an efficient system of utilities and then this will lead into our capital
improvement element which talks about a sequencing or a guide plan for how we... based on the
land use plan, phasing plan that's in the land use element.
Aanenson: Just to go back and remind you how we came up with the phasing of the MUSA
which was this small map, which we talked about when we... What we did is we took the
comprehensive sewer map...those subdistricts we calculated households. Type of business
acreages and tried to figure out how that equates to what threshold we can handle. That's what
helped us establish the ultimate.., calculated population and that's back in the land use section
where we showed you those charts based on specific subdivisions so we believe our data is pretty
accurate. Taking that back out. We carried that out into population projections. As Bob
indicated, traffic zones and again carrying it through. What we need for ultimate build up for
sewer. Can we meet capacity for water design so it's been very beneficial to have the.., system
where we can have all this modeling on. Our data is so much better than what we had in 1990.
Joyce: Is that it? Any discussion on the final segment?
Conrad: I was just trying to assess the one impact that Bob brought up. Not permitting residential
development not serviced by sewer.
Generous: 1 per 10.
Aanenson: It's the 1 per 10 which the ordinance allows right now.
Generous: Or if there's an existing RR district that has 5 acre lots subdivided that could have
been to...
Aanenson: ... until sewer and water's available and that's really.., made in 1987 when we had the
Lake Ann Interceptor Agreement moved to the 1 per 10 and we're putting that in this statement.
If you choose to develop at a 1 unit per 10 and sit on the large lot, but I think most of the majority
of people that are not without subdivision that could be subdivided are anticipating urban service.
That's what we've heard from them. They'd like it brought in soon.
Generous: They wanted to come first, yes.
Conrad: So what are the benefits by allowing the septic systems? We basically got persuaded
septic systems do work very well. So by not really following that in future subdivisions that have
sewer, what are we missing? Are we missing anything?
Aanenson: One is, as we pointed out in the natural resources, we are concerned because we've
got, we're served by ground water. Aqua firs. The quality. Maintain the quality of ground
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
water. That's an ongoing issue in this state so that's one. We want to make sure our wetlands
and our lakes, we're not doing anything... The second is, we've got larger parcels that need to be
having municipal services.., and to make a project accessible by letting other properties develop
that way, inefficiently, it makes.., sometimes bring an area in to urban services because you.., land
that's now been subdivided that they don't want to be, have urban services. We've got that one
segment that runs through the community south of Lake Riley. Down to Hesse Farm and it's not
going to come in for a long time. There's no reason to. They've got existing systems. But it
makes it difficult for the people to the south where we do want to provide urban services such as
the seminary fen site where we want to preserve. Changing the ground water in that area would
have a significant impact on the water quality there. We certainly want to bring in urban services
there but it's going to be more difficult.., and we're not going to force them to do it. We certainly
want to be able to have enough assessment to make it cost efficient for them to hook up.
Conrad: So you see no drawbacks to that?
Aanenson: There might be a couple individual cases and I certainly think that the Council, and
you may have to evaluate that to say, looking at this. I know the situation came up, you know we
tried to protect these large lots and have had 1 or 2 homeowners that have had systems fail that
would want to have municipal services brought in. I mean the Council does have to look at that
on an individual basis and say does it make sense.., penalize the rest of the subdivision and assess
them all for one person's have a failing system. Or one person wants to go forward and not wait.
What does that do? What we know based on know we've got these land uses laid out, that it
seems to be efficient to provide sewer to the rest of the city in a timely manner as we laid it out.
That it works. But the more property that falls off and divides what we would call inefficiently in
large lots here and there, it makes it less cost effective for the person who does want to develop.
It becomes increasingly more expensive and we want to make sure that it does make sense to have
urban services again relating to the water quality issue. So I think Bob's going to take a few
minutes, if you have questions on the capital improvements...
Generous: Yeah, we did try to revise it based on changes to our staging plan and how one option
originally and then after evaluating it we change it to try to bring in the 212/169 corridor earlier
and also to preserve those large lot subdivisions that meet some of our.., housing diversity. That's
one of the diversity things we have are large lots and so we would like to preserve that. The only
real year in here is 1998. The rest of it serves as a guide. We have all these projects that need to
be done and we can evaluate future capital programs based on this but the staging isn't exactly set
in stone. We can look at it every 5 years we're mandated to... our budget and our capital program
to see that we are.., so this is just, it's a good planning document. It makes people aware
of... capital investment we'll need in the community.
Aanenson: It also identifies funding sources too and again as Bob said, those are going to be
changing. We're going to have high priority on something we hadn't anticipated that may change
a priority but what we've tried to do is be... in the year 2020, this seems to reflect all the
deficiencies in our system that we've tried to identify in those.., some things we hadn't anticipated
are going to come up and you re-evaluate that. What we've tried to do is put a budget out there
that you would...
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Brooks:...
Aanenson: That's still an issue. She still is concerned that it's not a higher priority and since
she's not here.., opportunity to speak for her. They're still concerned that where it's placed on
there. The Council, I'm not sure is going to make a decision to move it up sooner. Within the
framework that we're working on the comprehensive plan, they realize it's an issue. They were
also committed to go through a strategic planning process to look at some of their long term, short
term goals. There's a lot of issues that when you look at this one here.., additional hockey rinks.
Whether it's the library. Public works. Road expansions. How that all shakes out into that
priority but they're concerned that it's still not a higher priority. And they're looking for the
Planning Commission to give them support too. Give them a higher priority. Again from this
meeting it's not going to, comments from this meeting are not going forward to the Council yet.
This is still for us to make some changes but I'm confident and I've encouraged them to have a lot
of people at the town meeting on April 22nd.
Brooks: I think it is important.
Aanenson: It is. It's very important. Just to piggyback on that too. There was District 112
had.., that they wanted to do kind of the library, the school and so I think part of the study issue
that the Council's looking at too is what should that library look like? Is it a regional library?
Does it still belong to Chanhassen? Something that maybe the three communities of Victoria,
Chaska and Chanhassen all want to work together on? And what should it look like so that's part
of the equation too and I think it sounds like, kind of like the park referendum. You need side
task force to kind of study what it should be and where it should be. And there's certainly people
that are committed to keeping it in Chanhassen. Kind of a bigger issue than just funding. It's
what it should look like and where it belongs. Someone needs to process that too so it's...
Joyce: Would anyone from the audience like to add to this discussion? It's not really a public
hearing but if you'd like to step up and.., at this time. This is the open discussion right now.
Mike Mullens: ... I'm Mike Mullens at 2547 Bridal Creek Trail. I'd like to start out by wishing
you all a Happy St. Patty's Day. I see a few Irish names and some of you that maybe wish you
were Irish. I served as the Chair of parks, open space and trail citizens committee last spring with
Alison and on the referendum. I'm very happy to see the work that's gone forward with it. It
looks great. There was a lot to be done. My comments tonight, just very briefly. It's
informational only. I'm working with several citizens in the city to raise signatures on a petition
to ask the Council to rescind the authorization for the, I'll check the wording here. The plans and
specifications for the Coulter Boulevard extension west of TH 5. Or west of Galpin. And we are
circulating some petitions to gather some signatures. We had some conversations with some
Council people and I, speaking for myselfi would like to see the Council re-open this conversation
having to do with what's best for the community at that end. I know there's been a lot of work
that's already been done on that and I don't mean to denigrate that at all. I would just like to be
part of the conversation and several other people that I've spoken with, kind of a growing number
of people I've spoken with would like to have, probably have participated earlier and it's our fault
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
if we don't keep up with the Minutes and all. I support Mr. Conrad's line of thought about taking
a position and making it a point of principle for the City. In particular, in this case, that might
commit Chanhassen to expend all efforts to preserve the open space and the wetlands we have,
and I don't know that that's not already a principle that's in action and probably would be well to
state that. There's several of us will be continuing to make conversation with officials of the city
as well as you and the City Council to also speak to trying to retain the integrity of the
O'Shaughnessy gift land as well. And those are my comments. I just wanted to have a chance to
make that comment before you. Thank you.
Joyce: Thank you for coming up.
Aanenson: Can I just comment on that? ... Monday night at the City Council meeting. Back on
the agenda.
Joyce: So it will be on the agenda Monday night.
Linda Janson: Hi. I'm Linda Janson, 240 Eastwood Court and I guess the part of the presentation
that I'm specifically wanting to speak to is the whole natural resources. We are so fortunate, as
you point out within the comprehensive plan, to be living near so many protected open spaces. Be
it the National Wildlife Refuge, the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum is a different entity
altogether, though I do acknowledge that it is open space. But I think the focus that we really
need to give it is that though we have these big pieces of open space, the emphasis that's made for
the wildlife, for the habitat, and most recently for the "pollinators". I mean as simple as our trees
and our fruits being pollinated. If we eliminate corridors within the city for those things to move,
we're hobbling ourselves. You know be it our fruits because of the pollinators. Be it the habitat
because now we no longer have the animals living with us. And of course speaking to the Coulter
Boulevard issue, we keep coming back to that because yes. It's just this little portion of property,
but it's a wetland and it is so rich in habitat and to have taken a piece of property like that sitting
next to one of our schools and not have looked at it as an opportunity, and an opportunity for the
children and to teach them about the richness that they have here in the community. They don't
have to get on a bus. They don't have to go with their parents to the Arboretum or the Wildlife
Refuge. They can actually walk out their back doors or walk to their schools and all around them
in that wetland they have, there's wildlife that's happening that so many of the city kids don't get
to experience. And I do spend time doing some volunteer work out at Lowly Nature Center so I
do get the pleasure of sitting out there when you've got 100 kindergartners coming from
Minneapolis and they're seeing the open spaces for the first time. And the impact that it makes on
you as an adult I can't tell you. I had never seen anything like it. You know I grew up with being
out of doors but to see these kids never having seen a chickadee. Coming through the Nature
Center then doing the chickadee-dee-dee, chickadee-dee-dee for the first time they've heard it.
And to know that we're sitting in Chanhassen and we have these little pockets and corridors that
we can protect when you're doing a comprehensive plan like this. Look at the little pieces too
and I guess that's again where I'm coming back to that whole Coulter Boulevard. You've just got
that neat little pocket that if you protect it, you're providing such a resource to the kids and if you
were to make it a teaching center. If you have the ability to be able to bring those kids over from
the school and have them be hands on. You know continue the path through or continue the bike
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
trails through. That's what we're having the conversation with the Council on, on hopefully
Monday night as far as cutting it back. Not putting the 9 ton truck through that type of property.
But one of the things I wanted to share, and I shared these in the Council meeting. I think
sometimes we don't, we're just not aware of what we actually have around us... But without
having to introduce anything, and these are right in Chanhassen. This is looking out my back
window. A pair of young barn owls. I had never seen anything like it before and I can... The
wood duck. Just out in the trees because the trees.., heron. This is almost an everyday
occurrence. The palliated woodpecker. And... wetlands for a red headed woodpecker. I mean
forget it. You just don't see them but here in Chanhassen because we have... They're not even
supposed to occur.., so I guess what I'm saying is, I get so excited when I see these wonderful
resources and what we can do with them and again to emphasize as you're doing your
comprehensive plan, look at the little pieces and if we can maintain those little pieces, we've
protected a great deal.
Joyce: Thank you very much. Kate, now what are they dedicating as far as that portion of where
Coulter Boulevard? Is that like 40 acres?
Aanenson: Right. There's 50 acres on O'Shaughnessy and approximately 50 acres that was
acquired. That was through negotiation. There's some upland there that they could have built on
but we negotiated to do that as part of the open space. And it's the intent to leave it. Sewer has
already gone through and that's where the swath is right now.
Joyce: So besides that development that's right there on the comer.., the only thing we're talking
about.., is the road going through.
Aanenson: Right. And that goes back to the issue that we had, as Bob said. Even at six lanes of
traffic on TH 5 is, you know we're also looking at, what does that do... so there's some
significant... And this is something the Council's going to be discussing Monday night so.
Joyce: So I guess one of the thoughts is how much, what kind of restrictions you put on that
road?
Aanenson: Well there's design standards and Anita can talk to that. It's, I mean it'd be similar to
the design that's on the other side of Galpin.
Benson: It's a Minnesota State Aid funding route. It would have to be built to a 9 ton standard to
apply State Aid street funds to it. If the City wanted to construct a lesser roadway through there,
that would have to come out the city general fund or other sources. It could not be funded from
State Aid.
Blackowiak: Also one of the questions that these people are trying to bring up is that do we need
the road through? And that's, I mean there are two definite schools of thought here and again,
Monday night's going to be yeah, that will be at City Council.
Joyce: Okay. Does that about cover?
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Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Aanenson: Yeah, that's capital improvement of the comp plan.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Blackowiak noted the Minutes of the Planning Commission
dated March 4, 1998 as presented.
ONGOING ITEMS:
Aanenson: I just wanted to let you know what we're looking at for the April 1st meeting. Bluff
Creek Corporate Center is in for a preliminary PUD approval. And also CSM will bring in the
front two lots remaining adjacent to Highway 5 which would be just east of, excuse me, just west
of where they are. There's two other lots. You saw the pieces that were filling out Dell Road
adjacent to... so this will pretty much accomplish the completion of that in the industrial park.
And then depending on how the meeting goes next old town, we would like to get a draft in to
you with design standards.., get in on that properly. They're waiting for the completion of those.
Take a look at those, if you need another meeting to review that. Council is looking at that.
We've already got applications in for the 15th, second use at the Arboretum Business Park. A golf
course application on one piece that's not part of the wildlife refuge. At the comer of TH 101 and
212...
Conrad: A golf course where?
Aanenson: It's really a... we have some concerns because it's a natural wetland. They're into it
and they haven't delineated that. Nets that are very tall. Maybe 150 feet.., so it may not be on
the agenda. They did delineate the wetland but it was done in the winter and we're not sure that
that's.., qualified delineator with the data there so it's not a completed application.
OPEN DISCUSSION:
Brooks: I'm going to start working with the Carver Counly planners on the Counly Historic
Preservation portion of the comp plan. I have a meeting next Monday. MnDOT... farmstead
study going on that will take place in Carver Counly, and as well as there's an LCMR landscape
study that's going to take place in Carver Counly. And so I just thought I'd ask you if any of you
have any ideas on how, on historic preservation planning in the Counly, I'd love to hear from
you.., probably not in the foremost thoughts of your mind but if it pops in your head... One thing
that the landscape study's doing is actually looking at agricultural landscapes and talking about
preserving one on the National Register of Historic Places in Carver Counly. Just so it says this is
what our heritage looks like. This is... and then we're going to incorporate building studies with
that. Eventually we're going to have to move to thinking, if we want a counly ordinance on
preservation.., it's going to take a year or so.
Conrad moved, Blackowiak seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
36
Planning Commission Meeting - March 18, 1998
Planning Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
37