PC 1998 08 19CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 19, 1998
Chairman Peterson called the meeting to order at 7;05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Craig Peterson, LuAnn Sidney, Matt Burton, Alison Blackowiak, and
Ladd Conrad
MEMBERS ABSENT: Allyson Brooks and Kevin Joyce
STAFF PRESENT: Kate Aanenson, Planning Director; Bob Oenerous, Senior Planner; and
Dave Hempel, Assistant City Engineer
PUBLIC HEARING:
AMENDMENT TO THE ENTIRE 2020 CHANHASSEN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN,
INCLUDING LAND USE, HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION, PARK AND
RECREATION, NATURAL RESOURCES, SEWER AND WATER.
Public Present:
Name Address
George & Patricia Dorsey
Anne Rasmusson
Jacqueline Schroeder
1551 Lyman Boulevard
Minneapolis
7720 Frontier Trail
Aanenson: Thank you. We held the original public hearing on this item back on June 17th.
Planning Commission directed staff to set a joint meeting with the city council to discuss several
issues. Those meetings were held on June 29th and August 3rd. What we would like to do at this
time is kind of go through those outstanding issues. There was some minor changes that you did
direct us to make in the plan which we can discuss but there were some issues that we have
accommodated those. Those are some broader issues that we would like to go through and I think
it might help for maybe people here on specific issues, we'll kind of pause at the end of each one
and maybe you might want to take comments at that point so we don't get lost. But one of the
first ones under the land use was to talk about a vision statement regarding, we did mention the
Highway 5 corridor. Bluff Creek. Natural resource plans and the storm water management plan
so what we're proposing is to amend that section and incorporate the vision statements. So you
have each of those documents. They are a part of the comprehensive plan but they wouldn't be, if
somebody just wanted a copy, this would be a good place to give a summary of those documents
so I think that was a good comment. We did put those in. LuAnn spoke to me and some minor
modifications which I think some of those grammatical word changes which will accommodate. I
think those were good comments. So unless you had any comments, that we'll be making that
change and that again would be on the land use section right at the beginning on page 3. I think
I'll take the fiscal impacts last. That probably has the most discussion on it. The next section that
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
we were asked by the school district to look at is they presented a letter to you requesting that we
look at two more elementary school sites and one middle school site. Elementary's requiring at
least 40 acres each and the middle school looking at 80 acres. We proposed three sites. One
being the Eckankar site. North of the current Eckankar. The Eckankar site, which probably more
than likely would be an elementary. And then the northeast comer of TH 5 and TH 41 which we
had already guided institutional and that would actually follow the southern, with south of the
frontage road. The frontage road actually swings a little bit further to the north on that so there
would be acreage there for a middle school site. And then the other property we looked at was
south of Lyman, west of, excuse me, east of Bluff Creek and that included several property
owners. Frank Fox, the Degler's and the Dorsey's who are here tonight. And what we're saying
by these, and we met with the school district, this is putting people on notice. This will
be... change that these are possible school sites. The city is not acquiring these properties. What
we're saying is that if people were to go and develop next to them, they may know that that is a
site that the school will be looking at. But it's up to the school district to make the acquisition
happen or work with the city. But at this time there are no plans to acquire it. They're looking at
schools at least 5 to 10 years out. So we kind of made that clear in our motion that we would
amend that. On page 9 that we say District 112 is seeking three additional school sites. The
following sites are being identified just as I mentioned and again, making it clear the city is not
proposing to acquire any subject property at this time. The underlying land use is still in place. It
does not change the proposed land use designation. If it's guided low density, it would still be
low density. Medium, medium institutional so we're not changing that. And then again, I think
clarification is made and LuAnn mentioned this too. That it would be encumbant upon the school
district to acquire the property and that'd be a good thing to add too. So we're not changing land
use. It's just really putting on notice that that's a potential school site for anybody else that lives
in that area. Okay? I know the Dorseys are here. I don't know if they had any questions on that
part.
George Dorsey: My name is George Dorsey. We're one of the possible sites. I have several
questions. One, is Chanhassen the only area that they're looking to build more schools?
Aanenson: No. We are the largest city in the school district. Chanhassen is. The school district
includes Victoria, Chaska and East Union but we would be the largest city in the district but they
are asking Victoria to look another school site, which they are too.
George Dorsey: So they're setting up other sites so you're just putting on three?
Aanenson: Yes.
George Dorsey: It seems we might be the biggest right now but the expansion's going west. The
people seem to, would rather have the elementary school west of here instead of coming in here.
The school district's one of the biggest in the state. It's 35 miles across and we have two grade
schools, senior and junior high school. Yeah two, right here in the eastern part of the county.
Eastern part of District 112.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Aanenson: Yeah. That, the city has no jurisdiction over that. I understand what your issue is but
what we did do is looked at enrollment projections for Minnetonka, Eden Prairie, and tried to
compare how close and see if that seemed reasonable or realistic and the population, the ultimate
Chanhassen population and the Chaska School District is going to be still, well part of the
northern half goes, that's where the vacant property is south of Lyman and we still have quite a bit
of property in the current MUSA that would be in the 112 district so there is still a significant
population that would still be Chanhassen residents. Again that's, you're looking at ultimate
development, and that's the year 2020 so none of this is going to happen within the next 5 years.
They're looking long range.
George Dorsey: I have another question. You know they say well we need 40 for a grade school
and 80 for a junior school. Is this a magic number or something? The school I sent to had about
2 acres if that. The school I went to had about a block and a half. The school my kids went to
had about 2 blocks and now all of a sudden somebody's got the idea about 30 years ago that we
have to have a lot of grass and trees and all kinds of beautiful things to increase the cost and
increase the maintenance and it certainly hasn't contributed to improvement of schooling, which is
primarily what we're building the school for. So I just wondered if there's a magic number.
They say look for 40. Did anybody ever think of saying why in the hell don't you take and put it
on 5 acres or something?
Aanenson: I think that's a good point and the school district and the city has worked
cooperatively with the elementary school right here. We share a city rec area here. Organized
activities at the Bluff Creek Elementary and we worked in partnerships and that is one of the goals
that we state in here. That we try to do a partnership. I know Victoria's looking at the same
thing. Combining some soccer fields. Looking at how we can partner so we're not.., exclusively
for one use where we can make better use of the facility. But where that 40 acres comes from,
that's kind of a national desired standard.
George Dorsey: That's just crazy. You have people out east that don't even have anything but
blacktop to build a school on but I just wondered. I mean they ask you to set aside these areas
and granted it's 20 or 30 years ago but I began hearing this number about 30 years ago. You
know they started, they tore down a wonderful school in Edina. The problem is I guess the kids
went out of there and went onto college and graduated and went out and got jobs and worked so
naturally tear it down. That'd be the best thing to do and build another one where you had to take
a bus for about 40 minutes to get the kids there. They're going up this comer. So I just wonder
when they ask a number, do we just automatically say oh yeah, 40 acres. That'd be nice.
Aanenson: Well we're not acquiring anything. All we're doing is.
George Dorsey: I know but just to take and toss it in. Because this started 40 years ago. I'm just
hearing the same thing. This isn't something new what I'm hearing. When it's somebody from
the government comes down, well 40. Next it will be 80. Junior high school needs 80 acres. So
we can build more. I guess the other question I have is, how much land, this is not going but it's
germane because the city looks to acquire more land for this, that and the other thing. How much
land is actually set aside for parks and lakes and what percentage? You've got roads. You've got
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
all the government buildings. You've got churches. All these different things. What percent, all
this land goes off the tax rolls and yet we keep taking more and more off and we're the third
highest taxed I understand and if we keep taking more, the taxes naturally will keep going up I
presume. If you set aside land or do whatever it is, what are you going to do? You want a
highway corridor? You want all kinds of stufl2 There's no room to build stuff to take and
increase the tax base. So I'm just wondering, what is the percentage? I don't know what it is.
You've got the Arboretum. You've got Minnewashta. You've got the schools. You've got roads
and government buildings, church buildings and everything else. That's all off the tax roll. Have
you got 25%? 30% of the city that's non taxable with a taxable portion of TIF which I'll probably
be dead before you get any money from that.
Aanenson: Probably about 20%.
George Dorsey: 20 counting the Arboretum and Minnewashta and all the lakes and all the parks
that you've got here and all the schools.
Aanenson: 25 maybe, yes. We have no jurisdiction over the Arboretum.
George Dorsey: I know you don't but you can't tax it either. I know you can't do anything
about, they think, it sounds like when you last entertained the comprehensive plan, they consultant
didn't want to sign it because you can't keep the taxes the same or lower if everything you do is
going to increase the spending.
Peterson: One of the main things we talk about throughout, as we developed and drafted this plan
was balancing the need to have lower taxes with how we were going to zone. I think what we've
tried to do with the plan is to do a balancing it and we talked about that as recently as lwo weeks
ago as far as do we have enough commercial property versus homes and not to be taking away
commercial property that will hopefully increase the tax base and lower the individual taxes of the
home, but what the plan that we've got, 100 and some pages is trying to find the answer to that.
To keep taxes lower but provide the services to the...
George Dorsey: Well it's not keeping the taxes lower. The taxes are going up. If you take more
land out, you're going to provide tax base for you, taxes will go higher if you keep spending. If
you keep, you're going to have the Bluff Creek corridor so that will be beautiful and you can
walk along the creek and do all kinds of fancy things but it's not going to provide anything on the
tax base way. You say well people will flock here because it's going to be so beautiful until they
find out what it costs and then they say well I live across the county line or I'll live in the other
school district or whatever. If you build another home on the senior high school, that's going to
take some more land. That's going to raise the tax if you build all these others. Whether it's 10
years, 20 years, what does it matter? It's still going to raise the tax. You say well we'll have
more people.
Peterson: I hear your point but you also have to deal with the need to, we have to provide for a
school somewhere, if the population grows proportionately.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
George Dorsey: I have no quibble that you have to provide schooling. I'm for schooling. I'm on
one of the planning commissioners up here for schooling, but the idea that you need 120 acres for
800 people or 1,000 people is ridiculous. But if you accept that, which you start making your
long range plans, it seems like it gets accepted because somebody, somewhere in Washington
who may have air in his head, thinks that fresh air is good so we'll take and build these expensive
schools and acquire the land and so on and so on and so on. I mean you can't do anything about
that but if you go along with that, you're not keeping the taxes lower. The taxes are going up.
You say well it didn't go up. No, they raised the assessment. We haven't gotten the next tax
increase but we also don't know what taxes are for all the stuff that the comprehensive plan, the
city, and the county and everybody else has set aside. It's the third highest. There must be some
way to keep it down. I don't see it going down and it's just as part of the comprehensive plan you
keep chopping out more land for some other use. You're going to want a highway corridor,
schools. And now say well, as a part of the plan maybe you're in for school. Well what ifI want
to do something else with it? You say well, yeah you can do it. I went through this when they set
it up for going to make it a dump site. You could do anything you wanted except if they made it
a dump site, you never got any reimbursement. They didn't make it a dump site. But 7 years
they were playing around with it. You couldn't do anything. We went out of business. The
business that we had because that's what they going to do. Maybe. And it went out after they
$52 million trying to figure out where they're going to put all these dump sites and the money ran
out and they made a decision right away. Perpich said Garberbring make a decision. She did. So
it goes on and on. So when you say we're trying to balance, I'm not sure what you're trying to
balance. I'm not saying you're not trying to do the right thing but I'm not sure what you want to
balance. You say we're trying to keep the taxes, lower the tax. The taxes are going up. I think
you said that or you said it's.
Peterson: We're trying to maintain at a minimum, maintain if not lower the taxes.
George Dorsey: Main to lower taxes.
Peterson: That's not, I'm speaking on behalf of the council. On the planning commission side
we're trying to guide the zone or provide zoning that provides for a variety. Whether that be park
and recreation. Whether that be for all types of land uses. A variety of those and with this
comprehensive plan is a great deal of variety and types of zoning so we try to provide for fiscal
responsibility by not having too many of non-productive taxable areas. We realize as a city you
have to have commercial supplied for a tax base... The balance between that and having no
commercial, having a bedroom community, that's the balance I'm talking about.
George Dorsey: Well we must not be balancing it too well if we're third highest in the state.
Would you agree or wouldn't you agree?
Peterson: Well I'm, again we are positioning to.
George Dorsey: Well you say you're trying to do this. I'm saying well how hard are you trying
or are you getting the wrong information or what? What kind of trying, if you're third highest in
the state, we must be complying. We must be going along with whatever is tossed in there. Do
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
we never say no? Do we ever question anything? We're third highest. I mean obviously
everybody out in their areas are trying to do some of the same things. I'm just asking.
Peterson: All I'm saying is that we as a planning commission are doing, what we believe...
Whether we're the third highest or not, I can't argue that point. I don't know whether we're the
first or the 20th.
George Dorsey: Well I don't know, that's what came out in the paper, third highest. Maybe
that's not correct. But even if we're l0th highest, I don't even know how many there are. Huh?
Peterson: What we're trying to do in this one is build into the future that we aren't number one by
any means. Our goal is not to raise the taxes. Our goal is to provide zoning that makes
everybody that has to be satisfied that taxes aren't going up. That's for one.
George Dorsey: Well there's no use going on because obviously we're not getting anywhere but
they are going up.
Aanenson: Not the city's. The school district is. The city's hasn't gone up in a number of years.
Conrad: The city is doing it's job.
Aanenson: The city has not raised their taxes.
Conrad: Yeah, very much under control.
Aanenson: They even went down last year so.
George Dorsey: The appropriation, the assessments have gone up. So that's another way of
raising tax. You've got a heck of a lot more money than when I first moved out here to play with
and to spend and to provide...
Conrad: The economics are probably pretty good.
George Dorsey: Yeah well.
Conrad: But just so you know, seriously the city is really controlling.
George Dorsey: The percentage but the taxes are going up on everything they do here.
Conrad: The other thing you should know is, in '91 the land use had 25% for park and open
space and the one we're looking at right now takes it down to 20. So you know in terms of what
you're looking for probably, we're trying to allocate a little bit more to productive revenue
generating, and we're looking at those issues. We're concerned. You're not talking to deaf ears
here. We've been beating this a little bit and probably will talk about it a little bit more.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
George Dorsey: I remember some of these same conversations going on when my taxes were
lower and they're still going up even though everybody's trying to keep them down so I guess
now I'll pass it on. But that's, and that's, you just take these things, 40 acres and 80 acres, this is
nonsense. But we do it. And even though it's 20 years from now, maybe it will be 10. Maybe it
will be 5. Maybe it will never be.
Blackowiak: I'd like to make one comment Mr. Chair. You make a really good point. I mean
there are a lot of assumptions I think that are out there that we may need to challenge. Is 40 acres
the right amount? The school board is telling us yes. Common wisdom says yes but you know
maybe they could do with 30 or 20. I mean that's maybe something we have to look at. When
you talk about Highway 212, it's been on the books you know since 1956 or something. So
what? Is that the right thing? I mean you're right. I think we have to challenge some of these
assumptions that people have just accepted over the years. And when you say, I like your point
about the school because I don't know that 40 acres is what you need for an elementary school. It
sounds like a lot.
George Dorsey: You say common knowledge or common wisdom or common whatever.
Common from where?
Blackowiak: Exactly.
George Dorsey: You read it in the newspaper, which has got plenty of bias.
Blackowiak: So I'm saying, I like your thinking. I like that. Challenge your assumptions
because we.
Burton: IfI could. The only thing that I hear is that the language that we're proposing to insert
into the comprehensive plan is not stating an acreage. It's just stating these are possible sites.
Now if they are picked with those thoughts in mind but the actual comprehensive plan is not going
to say 40 acres or 80 acres. It's identifying potential sites.
Aanenson: That's correct.
George Dorsey: Well we got, yeah in the letter we sent, you're looking for 40 and then 80 right
along side. That adds up.
Aanenson: That's what we sent to you to identify that but the motion that, or what we're placing
in the comp plan doesn't identify an acreage amount.
Burton: The actual plan won't say anything about 40 or 80 acres.
George Dorsey: Well let me ask you this. What if the school says we want 120 acres in town?
Aanenson: It's up to them to acquire it. They'd have to secure a purchase agreement with you.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
George Dorsey: All right, and if you don't change the zone, or you leave it in that zoning, what
is a person to do? If you zone it for school use and I don't sell it and they don't buy it, then what
can you do with the land?
Aanenson: As we indicated before, it still has the underlying land use. We are not changing that.
It's been that way since we did the Bluff Creek overlay zone when we met before on that issue.
George Dorsey: Yeah, okay.
Aanenson: We're not changing that. I made that perfectly clear at the beginning. We're not
changing the...
George Dorsey: All right, is that different than when the city labeled it as a dump site? Is that
different?
Aanenson: I wasn't here when they did that.
George Dorsey: I know but is that, I was here and I can tell you what it was and a lot of people in
a lot of the counties got going if it's, you're telling me the same thing. I believe they accepted
historically you go back and things weren't the way they seemed.
Aanenson: What the future land use designation and what's currently zoned. It's currently zoned
A2. There are some things that would be permitted in an A2 district so.
George Dorsey: Okay I don't, but as the information obviously I do and when you built it, when
the dump site was set up, the same thing was said and you went to the State and the counties, the
seven county metropolitan district and they said that's right. You can do all these things but if we
make it a dump site, you're screwed because you're not going to be reimbursed for anything that
you do with that land. And so if you have a business, you either let the business go to pot. Keep
it the size it is and not be able to compete with anybody, or go out so that's all. What I'm asking
is to challenge some of the others and not accept it. Common wisdom. I don't know what
common wisdom is and so, I'm done.
Aanenson: Okay. Amphitheater. That was something that you asked us to look at. It was
identified as a future vision or implementation. Something the Park and Recreation Commission
wanted to look at. It is identified as a future facility in the Minnewashta Regional Park. I did
speak to the director there and their only concern is that the access as proposed on the site right
now may not be the greatest but if and when we get to that stage we said we'd probably be
working with them. If we were out ahead or something that we wanted, that we would be
working with them to make sure it's sited in such a way. Then the other site would be on the
north side of TH 5. On the west side of TH 41. That also is already guided public so it would fit
within that land use designation so that would not take a land use designation. So our
recommendation on that would be to change the comprehensive plan and that would be under the
parks and open space. Under the regional open space section on page 2 of the parks and open
space and say that the city may support the use of an outdoor amphitheater on the Arboretum
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
property located north of Highway 5 and west of 41. The reason why we didn't change it on the
other is it's already stated in their, the comprehensive plan of the regional park and it's already
identified as a goal of the park and rec commission so we thought that would be redundant so we
are also recommending.., and again it's two state highways so we thought that might be a good
spot too. The next one would be community facilities and this is kind of based on the, regarding
the cooperation between jurisdictions, including the school district and library, recreation facilities,
public works. This is the one I was just talking about previously regarding schools and that would
be, we'd amend the land use section which is the first section on page 12 to say the city would
seek to work with other jurisdictions to combine resources, including city, county, Southwest
Metro Transit, and the school districts to collaborate on mutual interests it should say. Not
interpret. Mutual interest such as the library. Where we talk about doing a recycling center. A
public works. Where we can actually kind of partner like we do with Bluff Creek and we think
that again is a good use of resources. So we would amend that section to reflect that.
Transportation. I know you had a difficult time reading that and we wanted to make sure your
comment that it was very technical reading, we concurred. That was one part we didn't write but
the consultant so Bob did make a change and we wanted to show you that we did follow through
on your comments and I'll just let him summarize some of the main points and the issues that you
had raised.
Generous: The primary issue that you had was it was difficult to read and there was a lot of
redundancy so we tried to consolidate references where we're describing the roadway system up
in one portion where it's first mentioned. We tried to consolidate as much as possible.
Highlighting the Highway 5 problem. It's in there. What we're proposing is that we use some
editing techniques to help bring it out to put it in bold so that it really stands out on... or underline
it in certain instances. The substantive changes to the element were, we were ahead of the county
in their traffic study and so it was necessary for us to add some of the roadway, arterial roadway
systems into that. We did propose to change this by adding Lyman Boulevard from Highway 41
to Highway 101 as a minor arterial. That will be four laned in the future and will provide access
to an interchange at Highway 101 and 212. We created two classes of connector roadways. The
Class I was the more heavily traveled to provide intra-community links and to that we added an
east/west roadway, south of Powers, or south of Lyman between Powers and 101. It shows up as
the curved roadway west of Lake Riley. And as that area develops, it will provide a connection
from the neighborhoods that grow near out to the primary roadways. We also added Lyman
Boulevard from 101 to Eden Prairie. The easterly leg of Lyman. Eventually we envision that
there will be a connection and upgrade and Eden Prairie to that roadway system right now is just a
gravel road and so it will provide another east/west connection. And finally we're proposing to
reclassify some of those collector 2's. Pleasant View Road, which is a substandard roadway. It
doesn't have the sufficient width to bring it to urban standards but it is our only east/west
connector between Powers and Highway 101 on the north side of the city and so it does serve a
function as a collector. And then we would add the Longacres Drive which is a east/west
connector between TH 41 and Galpin and Park Drive which is a collector in the industrial park
between Audubon and Powers. As far as deficiencies, we pointed out some additional
deficiencies in our roadway system. Intersection access was at Highway 5 and Minnewashta
Parkway. There's some turning movement problems, especially during the rush hour. Now
they'll probably be signalized in the future as traffic numbers warrant it. Trunk Highway 5 and
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Audubon, there's turning movement problems there. That would.., warrant it. Capacity
problems, we added existing Trunk Highway 212 which is a two way, through road facility and
West 78th Street. It's not continued out to Highway 41. That's the north frontage road .... the
jurisdiction of continuity we added Pioneer Trail. That is a significant east/west collector in the
city and it connects Chaska and Eden Prairie and eventually you can get to Bloomington on that.
And Trunk Highway 41. Roadway improvements. If212 is not constructed, we have to add four
lane to the existing Trunk Highway 212. Highway 101 north of TH 5. Highway 5 west of TH
41 and Highway 7 west of TH 41 to County State Aid Highway 10. It's a little redundant but
even with 212 we're still, due to growth in the region we would have to four lane Highway 101
north of TH 5 and we've been working with Hennepin County and Carver County on getting that
as part of the programming. Powers Boulevard north of TH 5 up to Highway 7. And then
Highway 7 west of TH 41. And there's also a section that was, we were working on... capacity
by limiting access and so there's a three page addition on access management and corridor
preservation that we're proposing be added to the transportation element. And then finally as part
of that, the capital investment element is included at the end of that and we had to show that
Powers Boulevard four lane up to Highway 7 and we're proposing that in 2003. It shows up both
as a storm water project and as a road project because we'd make that at the same time. We
deleted $2 million from the Lyman Boulevard water tower. The timing had shifted and one of
the.., had been left in there inadvertently. And finally the east/west collector road south of Lyman
Boulevard from Powers and 101. We'd propose that 2009 that $900,000.00 be added... That's
all I have. We hope, when it's all cleaned up, it will be a lot easier to read and friendlier to
laymen.
Peterson: ... basically applied to council's meeting.
Aanenson: We're trying to, when we type set it this way, it's a little bit more work... We might
just type it and then submit it to them in that format and then retype set when we're ready to go to
final. Okay? Last but not least. Fiscal impacts.
Burton: Just a question.
Aanenson: Sure.
Burton: ... On the community facilities part. I'm just noticing it says, I think it might be a typo in
there. It says collaborative...
Aanenson: Interest. Yeah I stated that, yeah.
Burton: Okay, I'm sorry.
Aanenson: That's all right.
Burton: Is that the only discussion of the library is that?
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Aanenson: Capital improvements plan still. But my understanding is they would still like that
moved up and that's something you stated that we will be carrying over to the Council that they
consider that. I mean if this recommendation goes forward, there's still other things that we're not
making changes to but forwarding your comments to Council to investigate and that was one of
your comments to move forward. Fiscal impacts. What was included here, that the City Manager
wrote was something that went to the city council which they're discussing. What I'd like to do is
kind of just back up and look at fiscal impact analysis. Again, where we've been with this comp
plan and what we're proposing tonight. As stated in the charts that we did in the comp plan, there
was a significant area of the city that was vacant or left unguided. What we tried to accomplish
with the Bluff Creek and the Highway 5 corridor study was to revisit those areas and make sure
the appropriate guiding was in place. Again taking the consideration, the comments from the
people that were on the task force and the vision that this community's had and taking that through
the public process. So having those land uses we were able to compare, as we did in the land use
section on page 4, where we were in 1980, what we had in 1991 and what we're ultimately going
to end up with. And your concern was, is this going to pay for itself so the broad question is how
does growth pay for itself? While you were discussing this, the city of Victoria undertook a broad
study. Pretty lengthy in looking at the same question. How does growth pay for itself? And
they're predominantly residential and they will always be predominantly be residential. They're
only proposing 2% industrial/commercial for their ultimate land use. So what they came back and
said is they're projected residential growth doesn't pay for itself. In the years to come. The new
growth will not generate sufficient property taxes to ofl~et the associated costs so their taxes are
going to go up. Which means one of two things. People may be wanting to pay that because they
want to live in that type of community, or they're going to re-examine some of their impact fees
or assessments and how they pay for that development, which is something that we do too. We
have impact fees for park, storm water. There's those sort of fees that are associated with
development. But the issue is more complex than that. In 1991 Lakeville and the City of
Plymouth both undertook this issue as they were looking at comprehensive plan and what
Lakeville found is that, looking at density and the value, it does affect the assessable, which we
know. The price of housing. If it's higher density or higher value, there is different financial
benefits. And in Plymouth they found, based on theirs that they felt that there was no net property
tax burden that exists to the typical resident. They felt like it came out even at the end so, is this
telling us anything? Well, what I'd like to do is just kind of talk about how generally the planning
pattern works. We have jobs that are being created in an area, and with jobs people need housing.
And with housing people want services. They want their streets plowed. They want to be able to
get lunch, buy groceries. That sort of thing. So there is a relationship between the different uses.
So all forms of development use add to the demand for public service and the service population
and the potential need for police and fire and streets all tend to grow. As with that, the
administrative expense is also increased as the residents demand services. So looking at that, we
could say that guiding development can't be reduced necessarily to the top benefit because you
have to look at, if we said okay we're going to take all of our.., and turn them into commercial,
what's the benefit of that type of community and where people want to live. So what we're
saying, and again looking back and looking at our vision of where we want to be, numbers alone
would say that the entire city should be commercial industrial. I mean that's pretty obvious. But
we're saying while that's not really the kind of community we want to live in, we said that we're
always wanting to be going back to the original comprehensive plan. That this community wants
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
to be predominantly residential. But we also want it to be economically stable and fiscally
responsible. So how do we find that mix? Again, looking at them individually they may make
sense but economics is only a part of shaping what a livable community is and herein lies the
problem. This is what we said from the beginning. We believe that the land use that's proposed
here has more industrial/commercial and what we said under the PUD, we would examine where
we have some opportunities to provide additional commercial, but we don't want to put those on
now because that may not be appropriate. We also have the fact that there's certain.., landforms
that we don't want to destroy the integrity that are also adding to making this a sustainable livable
community. So we stand on what we said previously and what we've always come back to and
that's land uses are interdependent on each other. And to have a sustainable community, a livable
community we said we want to life cycle. We want to livable. If we have only jobs and
nobody's living here to service those jobs. If we have only houses, our taxes are going to be very
high so we believe that this is a well conceived plan. Is there going to be changes to it over time?
We're going to get requests and we may re-examine those and we put in here that we want to re-
examine it every 5 years and we think that that makes sense. Go back and as we learn more or
different techniques, we should examine that but we stand by what was done with the Bluff Creek
study and as we move this document, we think it is responsible. Again we've been going back to
the school sites. We put those on property that was already residential. Then held fast on the
rezoning industrial in the past. We've recommended denial on those where we felt that's not the
rightthing to do. So withthat, we're recommending approval ofthe comprehensive plan withthe
four or five changes recommended in the report. And I'd be happy to answer any other questions
that you may have.
Peterson: Questions of staff from fellow commissioners?
Conrad: Mr. Chairman, yeah I'll bring this up right now rather than waiting. A lot of really
probably good things and I think that things are moving in the right direction. I made a comment
about the fiscal responsibilities and I really didn't understand anything that Don Ashworth said.
It's way over my head. So it didn't help. And he didn't hear my point and there's a great
distance between what I say or staff hears and what city council asks for. But I have to restate
what my point was because it wasn't answered. The way I look at the land use, we were going to
increase our revenue generating lands by about 30 some percent. Industrial, office, whatever. We
were going to increase our population by 80%. 70 something or whatever the final numbers are.
My point was, not what the quality of life is here. That's why I'm on the planning commission.
My point was, I saw one number saying we're going to add 30% more land, revenue generating
land. Yet so ifI saw our population was going to increase by that same amount, I'd be pretty
happy. Unfortunately, and I'm very naive as to how I interpret our numbers. That's why I asked
the staff and the consultant and Mr. Ashworth, or somebody to advise me on this seemingly
unsolvable problem. And it's still not solved. I couldn't understand this. It really didn't address
my issue. So I still have, so I'm making a statement. You know you said do we have any
questions for staff and Kate, I don't know what you want to do with that but Don didn't answer
my question. And again, it's my point is this is buildout. This is the end of the line. This is
where we don't have too many more choices and yeah we can guide, we guide land use. A little
bit here and there. Put a little bit more in. I just had this one simple question and it's still not
12
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
answered. So and I don't even know ifI want you to answer it Kate. I really, you know if
you've got an answer for me, maybe you can do that.
Aanenson: I think I answered it with the first work session, if you look at my numbers. I think
that was when Mr. Johnson was here throwing out the.., households and population and I did
recalculate a few numbers and I know what you were going for and I thought we discussed that in
the first meeting but your concern was the amount of, the ratio of population that we're increasing
as opposed to a ratio and I believe I stayed consistent. What I did is I put down in a report that
went out and it may be in the back of, we compared with Eden Prairie and Minnetonka,
Plymouth, a comparison of their ultimate population in the year 2020 and a good comparison
would be households and employment. And looking at that, we felt again we were being
responsible. Again you look at, we'll throw Victoria out because their percentage is real small.
We thought we have a very comparable to Chaska...
Conrad: ... percent of land dedicated to those.
Aanenson: Correct. Yes.
Conrad: Well by that I hear you. Okay, that's fine. We're not out of the ballpark but I said go
back and say how do we, if we're really, I'll throw the other element in. We're probably looking
for more affordable housing and maybe some land uses that don't generate revenue. And maybe
Don's factored that somehow into his analysis but still, you know the percent that other
communities use, all I see is that we've got 1,200 acres right now in productive revenue
generating stuff and we're going to go up to 1,600 and our population's going from 19 to 30
some. So it just doesn't seem like we're adding the revenue generating land in the same ratio. It
doesn't matter what our final, I don't care if it's 1% or 3% for IO or for any, I don't care.
Because I think, well as I told everybody, I think we've done a pretty good job. I like how our
land looks. I like what we're doing but I'm real nervous about the fact, the issue that I just raised.
And to say that we've got enough in there, it just, it still doesn't rationally, it's hard for me to
accept that it's going to do it.
Aanenson: I understand that. Again, what we said, which was demonstrated in the report...
density does affect value and the price of home affects value. Are we going to have some looking
at providing low and moderate? Yes. But we're also looking at densities and one way to make
sure you have a... investment is the intensities that you're developing at. Whether that's industrial,
floor area ratio or whether that's the densities of residential and that's one of the things and we
suggested we come back at is looking at the PUD that allows some of these sort of things. We're
seeing some of our old development patterns are going to. That was one of our recommendations
with a follow-up to this document.
Conrad: Tell me what's wrong with my logic. You've just got to help me on this one because.
Aanenson: I don't think your percentages are right compared to the other communities. I think
we're in very good standing compared to other communities.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Blackowiak: Can I take a stab at it? There's not a one to one ratio between the taxing, tax
generated by commercial/industrial and the tax generated by residential .... take the assumption
that commercial/industrial is 2 to 3 times what the residential does. So if commercial/industrial is
going to go up 33%, it's 33% but the bang for the buck so to speak has a multiplier affect.
Whereas residential is kind of a one, almost a one to one except for high density residential which
is going to give you more people... It's not.
Aanenson: Except that you have to be careful when you say high density. It does not generate
more children per unit so that's not affecting the schools and we've got studies.
Blackowiak: I'm not talking schools. I'm just talking about people. You're going to be having
types of housing that we haven't done predominant in Chanhassen. Correct? High density
residential is not, we don't have a lot. There are areas that are zoned so that might add a lot of
people to our final number.., talking myself into a circle here. But it's also going to add a higher
percentage in a tax. On a property tax basis. I mean.., what you're saying?
Conrad: Let me, I'm not sure. Let me rephrase what I said and see whether somebody, either one
of us can understand this. If I need a hundred acres of industrial office to kind of subsidize our
current population. How much revenue is generated? But it's subsidizing us. 100 acres. IfI
double my population, add another 19,000 people. That's not the right number but ifI did,
wouldn't I need another 100 acres to subsidize them?
Aanenson: No.
Peterson: I think the infrastructure is one point. You already have the infrastructure that
proportionately won't be needed with the services, i.e. the MUSA line is... and you've also got,
one thing I did understand.., consider the average tax capacity of the home will take care of,
because it's not one to one, it will take care of that growth by itself. That's what I got out of
Don's memo is that the tax capacity within the housing growth will take care of the majority of
the ancillary services that the city provides. It's hard for me to believe but that was...
Aanenson: But that's a true statement though. That's a true statement though. That's what he's
saying, and that's why the Park and Rec Commission is looking long term and saying we need
other revenue generating down the road where we can generate revenue to run our programs when
we don't have that new development coming in so that's was part of their statement. That they
need to be looking long term.
Peterson: I mean that's the only way that I can accept this issue because I know council also said
the same thing last meeting that they're not satisfied that the cushion there for growth. But I think
Kate made an excellent point in that we are going to review this every 5 years or sooner, to have a
reality check of the, do we need more? Do we need less? Or are we right on? But you've got to
believe some of the assumptions. If you believe the assumption that tax capacity of the additional
homes that are going to go up in the next 10 years or 15 years, will subsidize basically the growth,
then you're okay.
14
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Conrad: And so whatever gets put into commercial, office, industrial is pure gravy?
Peterson: Exactly. That's my interpretation of what Don was trying to say. Maybe... So that's
really, you've got to get over that.
Conrad: Yeah. That's important for me to know and it sure didn't jump out based on what Mr.
Ashworth said. That becomes real important because if we do allot some of the, you know we
can't just say we want a quality city without generating the revenue to create a quality city and
we're pretty lean right now. We really, we're not, we're pretty lean.
Aanenson: One comment I have on that is, we went through those Bluff Creek hearings. If you
want to go down and try to find some areas that doesn't have wetlands or slope on it and try to put
some industrial, we'd be happy to do that. I'm not sure you'd be pleased with that but we can go
back and examine that. We spent a lot of time looking at those during the Bluff Creek overlay
district. That doesn't mean that down the road you know as we indicated, we should be
examining those every 5 years. If someone comes in for a request and they think they can make it
work, we'll look at it but we did put a lot of time into that with that task force to try to look at
that.
Peterson: At ease?
Conrad: No. No. But I really.
Peterson: You're satisfied with the answers so that we can move on?
Conrad: ...we can move.
Peterson: I agree with that. Other questions of staff'? Okay, this is a public hearing. May I have
a motion and a second to open to the same please.
Blackowiak moved, Sidney seconded to open the public hearing. The public hearing was
opened.
Peterson: This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to address the commission, please come
forward and state your name and address please.
George Dorsey: George Dorsey. The only reason that you've been able to do what you've been
able to do is because.., because the assessment of your houses have all gone up. This... enough
tax to provide for all the schools and infrastructure and all that. The population didn't grow fast
enough. So the people ended up getting stuck with more assessments on their homes and then the
state jacked it around when they said business didn't have to pay so much tax as you counted on
and so then the homes had to pay more. I've got farmland and my assessment on my farmland
has gone up so that no farmer can make money on crops with the assessments that was just placed
on my land this year. You can't do it. In fact you'd go broke like they're going broke in
northwestern Minnesota. Because the price for the crops has gone down. Degler has told me the
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
same thing. He isn't going to make money on those crops.., but it hasn't. And that's why it's
gone up. You can't have affordable housing if property goes up. If the infrastructure costs all go
up and if business provides jobs that don't pay enough money so that your people can buy the
house in the area, and they can't buy a house in the area because everything has gone up. And it
will keep going up if you keep spending more money.
Peterson: Thank you. Anyone else?
Jacqueline Schroeder: Good evening. My name is Jacqueline Schroeder and I live at 7720
Frontier Trail and I have a question about some of the land use maps. We've been talking with
the Mayor and with the City Attorney on a few occasions. The current folks that did the land use
map for the existing land use for the city and for the future land use for the city have made some
mistakes in the map. Those mistakes have been pointed out to both staff and to council members
and yet you haven't seen some of those changes. Part of it happens to deal with the property that
my parents own. Currently we live right behind the old St. Hubert's... And currently that says
we're office institutional... My family's concern is this map has knowingly been wrong and it gets
adopted for a future land use as office institutional, if something would happen, you know heaven
forbid. A tornado comes through the town and my parents want to rebuild, if the house is
damaged they can't because it's no longer zoned, or designated as a land use for residential
purposes and that does have a severe impact upon my family. And I guess before this plan is
adopted we would like to see those changes made. We've been asking since March. I don't think
that's unreasonable.
Aanenson: Yes, we're aware of it. Yes. The zoning map and the comprehensive plan are in
conflict. There's 3 or 4 of them which we said that that's the first thing we'll do is take it through
the process. We told the Council that. They're aware of that one too.
Peterson: But the map isn't the guiding principle. It's the phase and.
Jacqueline Schroeder: No, the land use map is the guiding, that's what guides the comp plan.
Aanenson: Yeah, well but state law says they have to be the same. The zoning map and the
comprehensive plan. We brought you this same issue last, 2 weeks ago on TH 7 and 41, yeah.
Peterson: So it is something we are going to fix.
Aanenson: By the end of the year, yes.
Jacqueline Schroeder: There will be public hearings or how is that going to be handled?
Aanenson: Yeah, there has to be public hearings, yeah. There's four of them that we're aware of
that we have to fix. Yeah, that's a good point.
Peterson: Okay, thank you. Anyone else wishing to address the commission? Seeing one, may I
have a motion and a second please to close the public hearing.
16
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Conrad moved, Burton seconded to close the public hearing. The public hearing was
closed.
Peterson: Ladd you're on a roll. Do you have anything additional to say to?
Conrad: No. We're moving, you know we're really moving in the right direction. I think the
transportation was a big deal. I think what Bob was talking about made me feel real comfortable
with where we're going there. Nothing. I think library still is an issue. I don't know you've
analyzed. There's some words in there that I don't know where, somebody may want to take that
one up. Amphitheater. Best location for the amphitheater is close to downtown. That's not been
identified.
Aanenson: Well the Eckankar site was discussed but.
Conrad: I'm just making my point. Best location for the amphitheater is downtown. If we
learned anything, and I said this before when Village on the Ponds came in. It's the community
that's close and you go there. You go downtown. You make it vital and live. Best location for
the amphitheater is close to downtown. Everything else looks good except for the economics
feasibility. I'm going to have a tough time, I'm not sure how I'm going to vote on that. I really
do need just closure on it and maybe the information is there. I want to challenge the City
Council on that. Underlining the fact that my point is not really trying to change the direction of
the community but making sure that they really have allocated the right amount of resource to, to
make sure we can afford the things that we'd like to do. And that's real important. We really do
have to not always skimp, which I think we do sometimes. You've got to have the right resource
to make us money.
Peterson: Good, thanks. Alison.
Blackowiak: Well I think it's very good. The transportation was much more clear. I still do have
a little problem with the Highway 5 classification. I don't know ifI can change anything but I
worry that we're going to get stuck with something we may not want. I don't know what that is.
... I don't know exactly what the worse case scenario is but I wonder about the classification. I
wonder if Highway 5's going to be turned back. I mean all these things could happen I think and
I'm curious. On 212. I think it's going to be built. As much as I hate to say that. I think that it's
going to be built sooner.., they're talking about letting bids in the next couple years for Phase 2.
Things seem very positive despite what we may hear from other sources so I just would.., going
to happen in this area. I think that we really have to just keep a close watch on what's going to
happen with 212 because that's going to affect our community. Potentially really divide us and
we have to keep that in mind and annually or bi-annually or something just keep an eye on what's
happening because things are going to have to change to accommodate 212. But overall I like the
plan. Regarding adding the vision statement and talking specifically about the Highway 5
corridor study being the Bluff Creek watershed because I really feel that those are two very
important components and that we need to tie them into our comp plan. Other than that, I think
it's good.
17
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Peterson: Okay, Matt.
Burton: I'd like to first thank the staff for the time and attention they've put into this and they've
been good at answering questions and spending time with us and they've been very helpful. I
agree with Ladd. I think the amphitheater is nice. I too believe that the best place would be to
have it close to downtown. I think if it's further out that it's less likely that people would attend
events there. And I think having it somewhere near the center of town here would be ideal. I'm a
big advocate of the library and my recollection was that the planning commission as a whole was
an advocate of including the library and I guess we don't really, my understanding is that there's
going to be some comments about to the city council what we said earlier and I just want to re-
emphasize that that my recollection was that the entire planning commission was a strong
advocate of the library. That we'd like to see that receive a lot of attention. Otherwise, I think
everything looks fine. It's hard to get your arms around the whole thing but in general I feel
pretty comfortable with it. I did have a question real quick. I was looking at the proposed motion
for this evening and every time I bring up something like this I'm always missing something but
the four recommendations. I'm just wondering if the community facility one was left out or if that
should be added in.
Aanenson: The reason we left that out is that, let's see. Oh, you're right. That should be in the
motion. You're right, on page 12. Correct. Yes, thank you. That should be number 5 then.
Burton: I got one.
Aanenson: Good job.
Peterson: LuAnn.
Sidney: I'd like to echo the comments of the commissioners and really appreciate the amount of
work. It's an incredible amount of work to put together a document like this. Appreciate the
comments from the residents and also from staff and their guidance. About the fiscal impact. I
guess I was thinking, I'm wondering if there aren't some simplified fiscal models that might be
available and published. I keep thinking that this might be somebody's senior project or thesis
from school somewhere that might shed some light about the economic impacts.
Aanenson: We've got a simple model that doesn't work again because what it doesn't show you,
the interdependence on these land uses and how connected they are. It's like you're struggling
with, that's what it doesn't show. I can show you a summary of Victoria's but again they're
predominantly residential. Every community is so unique and a lot of them are measuring their
own impacts and their own services and a lot of our burden is the school district and the growth
impacts from that so it's.
Sidney: So everybody's difl'erent then in terms of.
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Aanenson: It's so complex, right. So we did summarize, we looked through 3 or 4 other
communities and we'd be happy to share that with you if you would like to include it in the
packet. Again, we did a summary of the last showing our land uses compared to other
communities. Comparing to Plymouth. Comparing to, does that mean we're developing at the
same intensities in every land use? Residential compared to the same, you know, what those
mixes are. That's why it gets a little bit hard to do that because we are dependent.
Sidney: I guess I'd be curious to know, understand more about the other communities. How they
approached it. If it isn't a burden I guess. And I do think we need to beef up the library
discussion a bit. I didn't pick that out to look at it tonight but I do think that's an important thing
we need to look at. So I was talking with Kate about the discussion about school sites. Whether
or not we need to be clear about.., responsibility of financing and purchase or figuring out some
type of purchase with that. It would be something that we'd want to include in the motion tonight.
I guess I'd be interested in the commissioners.
Peterson: Okay. I, clearly it's been a long and winding road. I guess I can't empathize being
pregnant for 9 months but it's been longer than 9 months of giving birth to what I think is a
good.., for Chanhassen over the ensuing 10 plus years. And I think the key issues for me are the
library. We still need to reinforce the importance of that. And to have reality checks, not
necessarily 5 years but every year that we're making the right decisions fiscally as it relates to the
tax base and I think that we as a commission have to consciously make that.., in the forefront in all
our decisions, which I think we have done pretty successfully over the years. And Ladd has
been.., really has been the leader in that and I certainly feel that all of us how important that is and
I think that we will continue to keep that... Certainly endeavor to do that. With that, I would ask
for a motion.
Burton: ... proposing that we add some language with the land that's going to be acquired by the
school district? ... after the discussion?
Peterson: Well yeah. Kate, can we...
Aanenson: Yeah, you know we did work together with the Bluff Creek so I want to make sure
that is we say it's encumbant upon the school district to acquire the property, because we have
done joint partners. That's why I kind of left it the city's not proposing to do it at this time. The
only reason I'm saying, what if they partner up with somebody else, a school, a library and the
county works together. Just to make sure that if we put it's encumbant upon the school district to
acquire the property, it may not be... some other partner. I guess was my only concern... Yeah, so
I guess that's why I left it that the city's not proposing at this time to do it but it may if it becomes
a partner in something.
Sidney: So you're suggesting leaving it.
Aanenson: Yeah. I guess I hear what you're saying, to make sure it's clear that the school district
will be doing that but what if we did a recreational, amphitheater or we tied something with it. It
19
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
may be a possibility that we'd be a partner. This may say well it's against your goals or
something.
Burton: I move that the Planning Commission adopt the comprehensive plan with the changes 1
through 4 in the staff report and adding number 5 which is the recommendation from the land
use.., section on page 4 of the staff report and do I need to read that?
Aanenson: That's fine.
Peterson: Is there a second?
Blackowiak: Second.
Peterson: All those in favor. Discussion points?
Burton moved, Blackowiak seconded that the Planning Commission reconunend approval
of the comprehensive plan with the following changes:
Change in the parks and open space section of the comprehensive plan under Regional Open
Space Arboretum (page 2), "The city may support the use of an outdoor amphitheater on the
Arboretum property located north of Highway 5 and west of Highway 41 ."
Amend the Land Use, Office Institutional, (page 9), "District 112 is seeking three additional
school sites. The following sites have been identified as potential school sites: 1) the
Eckankar site, 2) northwest comer of Highways 5 and 41, and 3) south of Lyman and east
of Bluff Creek. The city is not proposing to acquire the subject property at this time. The
underlying land use is still in place.
Amend the Land Use Introduction on (page 1), "the proposed vision statement of the
Highway 5 Corridor Study, Storm Water Management Plan and the Bluff Creek Watershed
Management Plan."
4. Amend the Transportation element to reflect the changes as proposed by staff in this report.
Based on the discussion regarding cooperation with other jurisdictions including school
districts, library, recreation facilitates, public works expansion, staff is recommending a new
policy be added to the land use section (page 12), "The city will seek to work with other
jurisdictions to combine resources including city, county, Southwest Metro Transit, and the
school districts: to coordinate and collaborate on mutual interpret such as a library, public
work/collective waste, arts council, transit site, school, recreation, etc."
All voted in favor, except Ladd Conrad who opposed, and the motion carried with a vote of
4to1.
Peterson: Explanation please.
20
Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Conrad: As I said before, I'm still not convinced that we've examined the fiscal impact of the
land use plan on the year 2020 and I want to make sure that the City Council examines that to the
point where, I wonder where the City of Chanhassen can be able to afford those quality items that
we all moved here for.
Peterson: Okay, thanks. Good work stafl~
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Commissioner Burton noted the Minutes of the Planning
Commission meeting dated August 5, 1998 as presented.
ONGOING ITEMS:
Aanenson: On the September 5th we've got the Lynmore may be back on. They're not in
concurrence with the parks and open space. I think that they have intents to subdivide that
property in the future that we requested the open space and that was part of the reasoning for the
PUD and the flexibility to preserve that slope area.
Blackowiak: I'm sorry, could you clarify which property?
Aanenson: I'm sorry, that's off of Galpin. The one you saw last week. Just north of Stone
Creek.
Blackowiak: Oh, that one okay.
Aanenson: We took the density and pushed it up and I think they were hoping to subdivide.
We'll be seeing the final CSM piece out on TH 5 and Dell Road. That will complete that
industrial area out there. Brenden Pond, the connection of Lake Lucy Road. And then under
open discussion, the Westwood Church is looking at a site and they want to come talk to you
about it. They're in their planning and they just want to kind of introduce themselves and what
they're looking at and get some feedback for you so that will just be a discussion item. I don't
think they'll be bringing you, they want to talk about ideas and get some feedback. And then on
September 6th we do not, September 16th we do not have any scheduled items. The deadline
passed for that. On October 7th we had scheduled a work session so we're thinking of maybe
moving that to the 16th to maybe get a little bit more daylight. Have a field trip, have dinner.
Field trip some projects. We've got a few ideas. If there's something that you'd like to look at or
want us to discuss, let me know. Otherwise we'll kind of share a little bit more with you on the
5th of what we're planning on that 16th. So we looked at...
Blackowiak: ... the 2nd?
Aanenson: The 2nd, you're right. So then and again, the work session on the 16th. We'll move
that up a week, or two weeks. That's all I had.
Peterson: Other discussion points?
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Planning Commission Meeting - August 19, 1998
Conrad: What's the sequence of the comp plan right now? What happens?
Aanenson: Well, it goes to the City Council on the 14th. I mean they can put it on. I know
they're still struggling with the fiscal impact. Legally we have to have it done by the end of the
year. I'm not sure if we want to, and we've got some rezonings to do. To get into compliance.
There's some areas that we indicated and then we also want to come back and re-examine the
PUD ordinance to look at that because right now the only place you could do the flexibility in
land use is under the medium or high density so we're saying in low density we want to do some
cluster. Reduce infrastructure. Those are other areas we want to look at. And we also want
to... where we set some mixed use. A little bit more mixed uses in those area where we can put
some support commercial so we want to look at that. So Bob's got that written. We're ready to
roll on that. We're just waiting to get through this process.
Conrad: So it's really in their court.
Aanenson: Right, and I have a feeling it's probably going to, with budgets it's probably going to
take towards the rest of the year. But we'll come back with the rezonings to you while they're
waiting up there and then we'll also look at the PUD and just get your feedback so we're ready to
roll.
Peterson: Okay, do I hear a motion to adjourn?
Conrad moved to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 8:20 p.m.
Submitted by Kate Aanenson
Planning Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
22