The URL can be used to link to this page

1990 05 16CHANHASSEN PLANNING COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MAY 16, 1990 Chairman Conrad called the meeting to order at. 7:40 MEMBERS PRESENT: Steve Emmings, Annette Ellson, Ladd Conrad, Brian Batzli, .Tim bJildermut, h and Joan Ahrens MEMBERS ASSENT- Tim Erhart STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, Pl..arming Director~ 3o Ann Olsen, Senior Planner; and .c.,harmin ~l-.!aff, Planner One. PUBLIC HEARING: CONSIDER APPLICATION OF THOMAS KORDONOWY FOR A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT TO CREATE A POND IN A CLASS 8 WETLAND ON PROPERTY ZONED RR, RURAL RESIDENTIAL AND LOCATED SOUTH OF TANADOONA DRIVE, WEST OF DOGWOOD ROAD. Public present: Name Address Tom l<ordonowy Martin Crones Applicant Dogwood Road Sharmin ,%l-.laff presented the staff report on ti~is item. Conrad; Just a quick question before we open it up to the public. Why is the ~.~Jater quality going to improve based on the dredging? What is it that. ~s c..~u.~i, nga ~-' the ql..~alit¥ to improve that ~i].l flee~. ].nte' kake Hinne~,,~ashtae~ A]-..~aff: ir_t is in the report. The bottom of the pond will not be level a nd ~ . . Conrad: Act as a sedimentation basin? Krauss: [4ell you're getting both sedimentation plus for wetland vegetation helps to filter as well. We're working.~especially since apart from the hou. se Hr. l<ordonowy will be developing. Conrad: Okay. Ue~ll open it up for public comments. If the applicant is here. If he has anything te say. Tom Kordonowy: Good evening Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Oommission. My name is Tom Kordonowy and requesting this ponding area really for our enjoyment but beyond that we think that. it's an enhancement to the area. Creation of the open water should probably have nesting for friendly critters and we think would be kind of a nice addition t.o the area so that's my only comment. Read the staff report and in concurrence with it. We've tried t.o work closely with staff in designing the pond to ,:r:.onform t.o the requirements of the ordinance as wel.~ as I say, improve the area. I 'd be happy to answer any questions you may have. C,::)nracl: He n'lay have some later. Thanks Tom~ Any other public comments? May 16, 1990 - Page 2 Ma~-t. in Jones: I'm Martin Jones. Mr. Kordonowy wi].], become a neighbor of rr, ine. Everything that he has done so far has been excellent. ~ can't say no to anyth.ing he has done so far. .At this point. I~li say go ahead with this. ~'L looks great. Conrad: Thank you. Anything else? Any other comments? Is there a motion t.o close the. public hearing? Batzli moved, Wildermuth seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Conrad' Steve~ comments? Emmings' No. It looks like this was designed very carefully with all. the considerations that I can see taken into account and I support the staff's r ecommendat, ions. ~llson'. I think it looks great~ I'm glad to see someone being proactive in the right direction for a change but I do have a question in regards to once this is in place. Then it would be guarded and let's say he sold the ].and or whatever, as a pond now. The wetland contains the pond and then the pond can no longer be altered and everything like that? Would that be true? You know what I'm saying? Once you dig it as a pond and turned it .into one and then maybe if it passes hands er whatever and someone doesn't want a pond there anymore, because he altered the wetland and it was permitted, now nobody else could take away the pond because that would now be altering it. again. Krauss: Well it is classified as a wetland and I've got to believe this would take on Class A wetland characteristics which would make it even tougher t.o alter. We also require p].ans~ .at Hennepin County. In fact we're getLing our ordinance to...so future property owners would be on notice that this is a condition of approval. Sllson: Yeah, I assume that they'd have to come in for a wetland alteration permit but I 'm saying would we allow them te ge back? Once you've got it improved you'd hope that you now have 'ho stay at the level of improvement and you can never have te ge back and things like that. I guess we don't ever have a total guarantee it doesn't sound .like but I like the fact that it's being improved and I~d just like to say okay~ now that it's improved, no ho.Ids bar. We can't go back anymore ell it no matter who takes it ever after that. Martin Jones: Can I make one comment? You said it's been improved. Yes, it will be. If it would go back to the original, that ain't all bad so I don't think you're going te have a loss either way~ If Mr. Kerdenowy decides to sell, it would ge back te the erigina.l, it would not be bad~ It's better this way but it won't be bad the et. her way. Sllson' Those are just.-the only things I thought about. 8atzli: It looks like the applicant has worked well with staff and it looks like a good plain. Planning Commission Meeting May' 1..~,o 1990 - Page 3 kli!dermu, th: I like the plan. I just have one question. How does the water current].y f],.ow under Tanadoona Drive? Is there a culvert? Martin Jones: I can answer that.-There's a 12 inch culvert underneath the road that's j~st aL the curve where Tanadeona turns into Dogweod. There's a 12 inch culvert geing there and that's been in place fer the last I'd say 6 er ? years since the new culvert. Wildermuth: Do we think the pond would alter that in any way Paul? Krauss: No~ The pond's not going to release water any faster than b~ilderrr~uth: Because of where the installation of the, where is it? A pipe w~th metal aprons at the exit of the pond. Okay. That's all I~ve have. Ahrens: I t. hink it's a good plan too but there a number of conditions that are very specific and I just had a questien. Dees the City find it difficult te meniter ali, the conditions that are set up with the appreval e~ this permit? I mean they can't dredge during certain times and they have to locate the dredging material in a certain place and how do you know that's goi'ng on? Krauss: Frankly it's difficult because unlike a home or a building~ you don't have a building permit 'that trips the process. What we do is we depend on the applicant to notify us that work's been started and we ge out and monitor that frem time to time. We.~ .staff to de that~ We de make the attempt te follow up as best we can~ In the future I'd like, and by the way the grading erdinance passed at the City Ceunoil Henday night and ~ think that we can use that te require~ in fact you may want te add a condition that they obtain a grading permit prior to starting the work from the engineer ~s department so we have a definitive permit so we know when they are grading. Conrad: I have no comments. It looks like a good application, t like it when we improve a wetland and the residents get what they wan'L~ I think that's ju. st a geod win-win situatien. Is there a motien? Ellson: I'll move the Planning Commission recommend approval of Wetland Alteration Permit 890-3 as shown on plans dated April 16, 1990 with the following two conditions and one condition also added. And the third condition should react that 'the applicant is to obtain a grading permit prior to start. ~li ldermuth: Second Ellson moved, Wildermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Wetland Alteration Permit #90-3 as sbo~n on plans dated April 16, 1990 uith the follouing conditions: The proposed ponding area conforms to the Fish and Wildlife guideline standards for ponds. P ].anni lng Cornmission Hooting Ma>' J.X,,. ~ 1990 - Page 4 The applicant provide Type III erosion control along the westerly edge of the fill area between the proposed fill area and the Class 8 wetland and the fi. il area be revegetated with natural vegetation within six fftonths of completion ef the pond. The ar~pl.icant shall obtain a grading permit prior to beginning work on the wetland. Ail voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING' PRELIMINARY PLAT OF 3.2 ACRES INTO 2 SINGLE FAMILY LOTS ON PROPERTY ZONED RSF AND LOCATED AT 365 PLEASANT VIEW ROAD, ROBERT SATHRE. Sharmin Al-Jarl presented the staff report. Chairman Conrad called the public hearirlg to order. C:onracl: Maybe we'll open it up with the applicant. Bob, any comments on the staf'F report? Bob .S, athre' Not really. There's nothing different other than the exchange that was not considered ~ith the vacating of Baldur Avenue. Conrad: That. cleans it up pretty easily. Any other comments? Batzli moved, Ellson seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. /he public hearing was closed. Ahrens: I guess it makes sense to have the property located west of the driveway. Become part of Lot 3, that's right. Is that the proposal? Rather than have it divide Lot 1. ~ guess it makes more sense for the proposed drive on Lot 1 also. I had a question why that wasn't connected onto the other private drive. Since there was some concern that the proposed drive on Lot 1 net be located tee close te Horseshoe Curve but it's almost right on top of the other private drive. Is that how~ I mean that's the way it leeks te me. Krauss: They're still separated by~ I don't remember the exact distance but we can scale that eff~ but there's a grade change there. I think if you're 8oing with the first report we said that we would prefer to have a single curb cut and we would have recommended it if we thought it was realistic to do but because ef the .grade change we didn't think it was so ~e just added a conditie'[] that the driveway te the new home has te be as far east as possible. Ah'tens' As far east from what? From the other existing drivexa?, '~: Al-Jaff' The engineering department said that if there is a distance of 100 feet~ that allows enough visibility and there is a distance of 100 feet . Ahrens' Betweer, 'the two driveways? Planning Commission Meeting May .1..6, 1990 - Page 5 Al-Jarl: Not the two driveways but their main concern was Horseshoe Curve. l<rauss: The main concern was sight distance as you come around the curve, that this driveway not be introduced 'right over here. The desire was to get it up LhaL way but as I read the report, I see we used to have a condition in for that and I don't read it in this version, it would be warranted to col~sider it with the condition that states that the loca'tion fer the c!riveklay shall be no further Heat than is illustrated on the stir rem. Ahrens: I agree. I don't quite understand the land exchange. Haybe you cou.l~d po.{.nk tO that on the map. Kra,JSS: If I understand it, we had this Baldur Avenue in here that was quite confusing because part of it was actual right-of-way and part of it3 was an easement. This part of it then was right-of-way. This area dewn to here would be vacated. Nhat ~e didn't vacate is the easement that we have on this side of it. Nhat we're proposing te do is the City would vacate this. The vacated land which was a part ef this parcel ~ill be traded to this parcel. ~.hrens: The vacated portion of Baldur Avenue? Krauss: Right, would become part of this lot. Ahrens: But. it originally was part of Lot i? l('rauss: Right. Because of that funny tail that was on that lot. And then what. they're deing is they're swapping a little bit of property right in here. Ahrens: Oh, so that's the reason this~ okay. In the staff report under easements el~ page ~, yeu state that the City is requesting an easement over the existing driveway. I assume that's the existing driveway lecated en Lot 3? Krau. ss: Lot 3, correct. As you recall, there was some confusion about that. We believed we had an easement over it and one easement was drafted u.p but. as near as k~e can tell was never filed and we wanted to correct that ornissio/'~. We've heels using it to make this... Ahrens: Number one, under your conditions. The driveway access to Lot 3, 8!ock 1 shall be placed il) the chain of title of the Lot 1, 81eck 17 Krauss: Right.. That condition would not be needed if the Baldur, the neck .proposal . Ahrens: But if the}' don't alter it though, it should be that the easement should be placed ill the title of both lots. I mean just technical. You just have to do it fer both lots, that's all. You just can't do it for one and not the other. That's all I have. Planning Commission Meeting Hay 16, 1990 - Page 6 Wi!dermt~t..h: One more time Paul~ why can't the st. reet access to Pleasant View for Lot 1 connect with the City easement? It looks like there's a drop ef about 1.6 feet according te the tope map and about 60 te FO 'feet. That doesn't seem out of line. Krau. ss: Well we went out to the site with our er,~ineer technician and I don't know i?- it actually looks worse than it is...but the grade is fairly substantial and you'd wind up with a driveway that was probably in excess ef 10% which is net impossible but with Heather conditions~ it could be difficult.. Wildermu. th: Right~ Okay. So that's basically the r-easoning? Because with all the vegetation there~ it locks like te come directly cut t.e the street, it's 8sing te involve removing as much vegetation eno way as the other . t-{r auss: Right Wildermuth: And by connecting with the easement, roadway, it eliminated one curb cut Hhich would be pretty desireable~ Krauss: Except that you probably would not run the driveway straight to the east. You'd want to roll down the hill and...concrete apron there, by that 'time you've caused about as much damage to get to that. point. Wildermuth: I don't know, it still looks like you could come off to within about 30 or 40 feet of the road and still cut down on some of the grade~ Hinimize the ~rade which would be less than the 16 feet if you went directly from the current turn around shown on the map over to the City easement road. Krauss: R~ell I don't want to give you the impression that we would be opposed to that. I meals that was cur initial goal with it. If you're comfortable b~ith wording a condition that encourages us te do that but leaves it, defers it to the engineering department 'ho go out and take another look at it~ I'd be more than happy te have them de that. WiJ. dermuth: I guess that's what I would favor. Thank you. Batzli: Carl you point t.o the map up there and tell me which one is Lot 1~ Lot 2 and Lot 37 Al-Jarl: Lot 1. Lot 2. Lot 3. 8atzli: Lot 3 is the one with the existing house? Okay. In condition where it says the driveway access to Let 2 shall be located to the far easterly edge. Did we just decide Lot 2 is the one that borders on 8a'Idur Avenue? P~l-Jaff: On Lot 2 and Lot 3. Krauss: Lot 2 is the one that borders on Baldur. Planning Commission Meeting Hap' 16~ J..990 - Page 7 8atzli: Are ~,.Je requiring in condition 1 that their driveway access to hot 2 is moved sornehow? kl'j. ldermutl~' h!e a. re-.n~h talking about Lot 2 at all. K'r'auss.~ Oh I see what you're saying. 8at~].i: So that should be Lot 3 in condition 17 l<rauss; Yeah~ the surveyor when he put the numbers on the map had a search and find game. The numbers are on there. They're in the corner. Lot. 3 is the one ~ith the. existing home down by the lake. Lot 2 is the one over' by 8aldur. Lot 1 is the new lot that will be made available through development. Rio need to change the conditions to reflect that. Condition 1 shou. ld be access to Lot 3. That's right. 8atz]..i: Drive~4ay access to Lot 3? Krauss: Right 8atzli; Shall be located to the far easterly edge of Lot. Krauss: No. That's the new condition that we're suggesting. That's clriveway access to Lot 2. He I'm sorry, Lot 1 needs to be located as far en the property. ~rnrnings: Another way t.o word that one would be just that. maybe prior to con:st, ructing the driveway on Lot 1, they should get approval for it's loca.'cion from the City Engineer. That's what I thought and just avoid ali.. these. Batzli: Yeah, okay. Is there, I seem to remember it seems like years ago no~ talking about what the appropriate separation for private drives onto a collector. Is there some sort ef an ordinance in the City about tile minimum distance between driveways? Krauss: No, not for residential use. 8atzli: Not 'for residential? Krauss: ~4hat we've done is and there are separation distances from irc'Jot'sections on collectors of 150 feet and the engineer's come up with spacing requirements on Park Drive for indust, rial use bu.t {er residences~ no we don ' k have one. 8atz].i: Okay. I think it might make more sense for the easements required that He reflect in the conditions ~ho the easement is for the benefit el. I'n condition 2 for example, sanitary sewer easement would run te the bens'Fit of the city. ~lnd k. ihat bias the, do you still Nant an additional condition regarding the location ef that drive if you change condition i? bdo 'La].l-{ed earlier about there was a previous condition about locating the d'riveHay. Does that. ge away then once you change? Planning Comrnission bleeting ~>' 26, 2990 - Page 8, Ix,lo 8at. zli: Co~'~ditior~ 1 is reflected? Krau. ss: No, '?ou still have to construct that ne~ driveway for Lot 1. You ~.,~a'r~t -li.h&,~t k.o be as far east as possible. 8at. zl~.: gut if you changed it to what Steve proposed, that the dr~ve~ay access to kot 1 must be approved by the city, isn't that all taken care ef ~4ith the one condition? Okay. Z don't have anything else. Ellson: I thought I understood it until people starting making all the changes and set me a little confused. I saw this as He had tab.].ed it or ~/~hat. ever te do a little mere housecleaning te make sure everything Mas in order" alqd all the things Here in place-al-~d I guess with the changes that ~ge've made to some of the Herding here, I feel corr~fortable that shat Me ~4al-~'ted Lo have changed before ~as changed. The only thing u'~'~comfortable with is the}' eiant te do some change here that ~ge're net really seeing and they ~anted to make that one a neck lot and sometimes I'm a little squeemish about approving something and then it gees en and it maybe isn't ~4hat I expected in my head. So the request that He dell't see here; i.s bas'.ically te fake that drive and everything that's Host ef that and make ~.t part ef the lot on top there? A1.---.laff: Lot 3. Sltson: Lo't 3. Good l<rauss: If they think there's any problem Hith it. and I can't foresee there are any variances...we can certainly bring it back to you. Ellsor,: Yeah, in general I don't have a problem ~ith it and I just started get more confused as it came down the re~ se I'll go back te the ~,~ay I started. Yes, it looks like He cleaned up everything He ~Janted te have c].ear]e.:t up. Go ahead Steve. Emmi. ngs: Where will the line be? There Mill be the new lot line on Lot i. Oh, you're going to move it back tee? And then just folloM the edge of the drive? Okay. II"~ general I wouldn't be in favor of approving something. No're approving a plat here and it's net the ~ay the plat's going to leek a. nd I'm a little uncomfortable Hith that as a general principle. If that's the ~,~ay it comes i'n, I'd be comfortable kgith that and I don't think ~e should hold it up for that reason but if it's anything other than you've just dra~l'~ oln there, then I'd ~4ant to see it again. 0ther~aise, it leeks reasonable to Ocr, tad: I have r,o additional comments. Looks fine to me as long as it's as represented o1~ the overhead. Any other comments? Emmi'r, Ss: I'd like to ask 3ira, I didn't understand the condition that 3ira lm 1 a ¥, ~-~ i n ~ C o m m i s s i o n hl e e t i n g Hay 16, lee0 -- Page e Nilde'rmut. h: Well that would be that the driveway for Lot 1 be tied into LNa City access 'For the lift station. Emrnings: You mean the other driveway? Nildermukh: Yeah. The ex~st~ng driveway. ~'d ~ike the engineer te take another look at. that. Conr,=~..~ You may want to mare a motion. t,Jilderrnuthx Alrisht. I move that the Planning Commission approve Subdivision ~.~89~.20 as sho~,~n on the plat dated ~pri~ ~6~ 1990 subject to the following conditions 1 thru 4 ~ith the addition of a fifth condition. Requesting that the C~.ty Engineer review the possibil.ity of tying the drive,gay 'For the housepad in Let 1 to the city's easement drive. Are there any other 'Friendly amendments? Con~'ad: N.]ell let's get the~ is there a second? Ahrens: Second . 8atzli: I'm sorry~ did you add condition 6~ F and 87 You added 5 right. Isn't there a 6~ F and 8 somewhere? Am I looking at the wrong thing? Conrad; You're looking at January 3rd 8atzli: Okay~ what happened to. Oh~ they did move that over. The one that we were talking about was condition 1 and I don~t knew Nhat we need to do with that. Wildermut. h: Condition i changed {rem the previous submission te this submission. Condition I talked about Let 2~ 8ut we are talking about Lot. 3. ~at. zli: Correct. He I agree but if they de what they're talking about there then the access and easement isn't required and that's ~that what we're approving isn't what they're going te de according to your mot i o I'~. Nildermuth: t~ell there's still an easement required. 8atz].i: Not if they do that. Milclermu. th: 8ut it weu. ld be {er Let 8at2;]_i: No~ because the driveway would be located entire]~y en the flag coaT, inS doeth L. et 1. Wildermuth: Right but the City will still need some legal means ef accessing Il. he .lift station along that drive right? Nra. uss: lhat~s in condition 2. Plann.i. ng Commission Meeting fda>' ~.6~ 1990 - Page ~0 Ah-tens' You Non"t need a driveway access. ~c~mrrlings ' There are a ~hoLe bunch of things ~ha~ have changed ~n an,:.:~ maybe .just_ as a suggestion, Uilclerrr~utl'~,' I.,.lel]. 't. heYe really is no need for i then if the change is made. ,o.,_,_li. Nell ~ could be changed to reflect that they're going to attempt to~ ~,~o~]. you've already indicated that they'Te going to try to get it off of the turn around. Tie tha'L into the existing g~ave! drive. If them can't do that, there was a p~oposal that they locate it as fax east ox k~est on that n',ap~ ~ahichever ~ay it is, east as possible and tha'B k4ould be ~su~,mitt. ecl t.o the City fo~ approval ~-hYens' They will still need an easement There ~.il.l be a need fox an easernent if they tie into the Lot 3 lot. ,zn~ing~, ~e~ 'Llnere's a ].ot of things up in tine air &nd if you go th'rough the ones that need easements to it., in number 2(a), the existing sanit~ary sek~er easement says it's over Lots ~ and 2 but it's over Lots and 2. P, nct (b), clrivek~ay access and utility easement over Lot 1~ Block ~.~ that's t. he same thing again. You don't need that one at all~ And (c), hhe uti].ity easement over the sanitary se~er along Lotus Lake~ that seems t.o me, ~.~ho's that running in favor of? The City? For ~.~hat utility? Krauss: Ne have a se~,~er line. ,._.turnings bJe].l I knoll but 'that's, ~hat's (a) th~n. Batzli' kdell that k,~as access into the lift station or kghateve'r. That b~as I t.h';nl- t.h,-~ :[ntenk. of that ,~ ~om- No I see k~hat you're saying. Emmil~gs' No, (a) is the seb~er itself. Ahrens' It says easements required, (a) reflect existing sanitary seller easement. Sa~z}~' Perhaps (c) is in~ended ~hen ~o access the o~hex dxive~ay? Emmings' XL says the se~,~er a~ong Lo~us Lake. That's ~he one ~hat goes across 3 and 2 and ~ha~ used ~o be ~a}dux ~venue. kl~}dermutch' Horn ~gig a problem ~s th~s go~ng ~o be ~f ~e table i~ and allo~.,~ ~.'~ to be cleaned ~hoxough~y? ' ,s. mm~ngs: The pxob}em ~s they don ~ kno~ ~ha~ ~hey xe going .:;~Yi,../e~aa. ys and ~.~'s hard to f~guxe out ~hat Lo pul ~n fox ~anguage in t.o }et. it go onto ~he C~t.y Council. ~ga~n~ ~hey put. us in a position not kno~ing ~ha.'~ they're do~ng and ~t's hard to figure i~ ou~ fox them. So maybe they should bring ~ back. ~ don'~ kno~g. ~ hate ~o hang ~t u.p. ~t. seems ~ike. Planning Commission Meeting May 16~ 1990 - Page 11 Conrad' I't should be out of our hands. Emrni'ngs' Once it's cleaned up I know we're going to approve it so why fool arou. n.:t with it but I don' t know ho~ to do ~{'~u be~auoe. ~- ~- we don't know what t. hey"re ~c~'~ngo.L tO cte. kJe don't know ho~ the drive,aMs are going to be connected if they are. Stuart Horn: One of the issues that came up as kind of a surprise is that the ,:3ou. pl.e l,.~ho has purchased ~hat we are calling Let i now~ they're working ena mortgage and the problem with mortgages is that there's a question about having easements for other private parties. There are liability problems. There's maintenance problems. The mortgage companies are a little nervous about the idea ef sharing a driveway. It's legal but the couple said they would give up the property that would be kind o{ northeast o-f the driveway in order to resolve that problem and that's why the a].ignment. I think your thought about having the City Engineer leek at. that woulcl be very good. I'm working en designing the house for that site and the driveway ! think would be kind of dangerous if it were connected up at the point where the other driveway comes in. If you're looking over your left shoulder trying to watch for traffic behind you coming down pleasant View~ I t. hink the visibility there I think is net real good at. the existing clriveway. It's actually much better for parties en the public road and en the driveway. If there were a fire, the public safety officer.., because on paper it looks real easy to connect them up or move thorn further east or kind ef northeasterly there but if you get out and actually walk the land, you're talking I think a dangerous slippery driveway and not mu. ch visibility to seeing who's coming and going either {er the people en the public road er the people on the private drive. I think iL wouldn't work that well if that's... bJilclerrnuth' That's why we want the City E'ngineer to take a look at it. Emmings: I guess as a suggestion, maybe what we should do is approve 'this as if tile lot.. lines are changed the wa'/ they said they were and as if it's going t.e have it's own driveway out to the street. Given that approval and if ttney want te change that later or if it needs te be changed later~ then ~e'].]. have to worry about whether it has te come back or net. We'll let the staff decide if they have to come back. If we approve it with it's own driveway, that doesn't satisfy Jim's concern but if we approve it with it's o~.,~'n driveway. 11: it turns out that the City Engineer determines it can't have it's own drive~ay, they could come back. That way there's only a 50--50 chance they'd have to come back. I don't knew if that's better er not. Otherwise, they ought to work all this out and bring it back~ Conrad' Yeah, it's real sloppy right 'now. Paul~ what do you think? K'rauss' You know there's a fair amount of confusion with this. It'd be nice if all ef this got straighten out. On the other hand~ I think the problems are relatively simple once we k/low how it will end up. ,.onrad: We car,'t n',a~.,e a motion though. s i o n Page Conr~:~.~",~ 8ob, ~Jhat are your concern~?~. You want to push this through and gel it out of here under some time constraints? Horn Ue have construction ~4e d like to start on the house Stuart. Horn' It's getting to be a problem because of the time... Conrad' So you'd rather have us move on it right now? 8ob Sat. hre" If you. could and whatever stipulations you. want to make as far as having the ~}ublic safety and the engineering people place the drivebgay. Conrad' .lim~ do you want to Hithdra.m your motion? Ni.lderrr, u'~.h' I~]..1 withdraw the motion. Conrad' Is there another motion? ,t!mrnings rwah I'm going to move that the Planning Commission recommenr] approval of Subdivision ~89-20 as shown on the plat dated P~pril 16~ 1990 subject to t. he following conditions. Number 1, a new plat will be submitted showing the changes in the configuration of Lot 1 that. were represented to us at the meeting ~ould be the ne~ ~ot ~ines of that lot. The second~ what Has condition 1 Hill be striken completely. Condition 2~ easements required. (a) ~i~ say that it ~¢i~.l reflect the existing sanitary sewer easements over kets 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2. It will say o .~nd 3 Slock 1 and 8aldur Avenue ~nd ~hat's down there as (b) will be striken and what's down there as (c). Ho~ strike what's do~n there as Ne~].. put i'r~ a ne~a (b) that says that ~e~ve sot to set the easement recorded that gives the City the right over the driveway that services ket 3~ 8~ock !. The easement that runs ~n favor of the City te ~et access te the lift station~ Then 3 will stay as is. 4 ~il! stay a.s J.s. 5 ~.gill say that the driveNay ~ecation for ~ot i must be approved by the City~ns~neer prior to any construction ef that drive~ay. I think that's 8atzli' Second. Conrad' 8, i~ ~ .... ' .,cu=.oion? Are you taken care of Jim? Wilderrnuth' I think so. Emmings moved, Batzli seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of Subdivision ~89-20 as shoNn on the plat dated April 16, 1990 subject to the following conditions: !. A ne~,~ plat will be submit'Bed showing ttne changes in the configuration of Lot 1. that were represented at the meeting ~.!ith the new lot lines. Easements required' ?lann~.n..g Commission Heetin,8 ~,,~:~,/ 16~ 1.990 - Page 13 Reflect the existin9 sanitary sewer easements over Lots 2 and 3, ol,ocl< 1 and Daldur Avenue. b.. The app].icant .shall record an easement that runs in favor of the C.i.t>' over the driveway that services Lot 3, 8lock 1 for access to the ].i'ft. station. park and trail dedication fees will be requ. ired in lieu of land d e d i c a t. i o n. 4. A tree preservation plan must be submitted prior to issu, ance of a bu. il. ding permit. The plan should illustrate how the driveway and home 131acemer~t and construction e~i].l minimize tree loss. The plan mu. st be approved by staff. Preservation areas sha~l be adequately marked by a snow {once prior te construction te avoid damase. Clear cutting of ',kr~-~':' 4" in c.a~iper or larger is prohibited 5. The clriveway location for Lot I must be approved by the City Engineer prior to any construction ef that driveway. All voted in favor and the motion carried. PUBLIC HEARING: ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO AMEND SECTION 20-92 REGARDING CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY BY ADDING PROVISIONS FOR LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS. Pau]. l<rauss preset, ted the staff report on this item~ Chairman Conrad cal~J..ed the public hearing to order. Resident' I've got. one question. Can you explain exactly what the ~-equirements are for a boulevard tree? Ho~ close te tlne street and all. t hat. stuff? Krauss: bJe require that it be~ will deciduous but deciduous or coniferous tree. 2 ~./2 inches in diameter for deciduous~ 6 foot in height for c:oniferous, lt. has to be in the front yard area. It can't be in the right-of-way boulevard so any part of that property is acceptable and if there's existing natural trees there, that requirement is waived~ Resident' It. doesn't have to be within so many feet of the street? l<r-, ~ .... No Resident' It's not a boulevard tree... Conrad' Any other comments? Enlmings moved, Batzli seconded to close the public hearing. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The public hearing was closed. Ahrens' I have one comment. I think we should make the developer guarantee -Lhe tree for a year. Really. ! mean so ~hat if they put a tree P!arJnilng Cc) mm;i.~sion Heating Hay ~6, ].cleo - Page 14 al~,:J A,.~ s dead an,d :it doesn't last? c.~n~n'~.'n..gs' ,x..~, good example is right out here on Kerber BI. vd.. There's arc, b~ o-~ i'-~inc~. tree8 Np there a.~o¥ig there and they're al~ dead. ,-...rau. ss ou knoN u,Je ye tried to enforce it in different ~gays Having the ~.~.,~,:slop~::~.r co it up front causes a lot of problems Because the ~ot's not developed yet., likely the tree ggill get killed Nhen they build the house arid 'there's nobody there to maintain it. Requiring installation b~hen the '~ome is built and the developer may be long gone at that time and the let so~d several, times, gsua~ means that there's a pro~erty oNner ~,~ho takes some pride in the property that they lust bought and will try to keep that tre ....,~ alive. ~t's not a ,~, ..... ~,-fect system but at ~east ~e~re getting those. improvements or trying ,~.:,n~ens That s assuming that the developer puts in a healthy tree to begin ~,,.~ i t, h. Krauss ' Right ,a.;hrens' I think a lot of times that's not true. Just a suggestion. Conrad' I assume the public hearing's closed. Joan, your comments? 8aged orJ L~hat's in front ef us tonight, do you sant te make any changes te ~.ghat '/ou'v,~ seen here? De you ~ant to look into this guarantee further at some other birne: P~h'r-e'ns' Do any other cities have anything like this where they guarantee or that they have the developer guarantee that the trees .live for a certain period c)f time? l<rauss: NJe. ll ~e in fact do that ~,Ji. th our new landscaping bond or letter of credit. The trees in landscaping have to survive for a ~ul]~ grot4ing season past the date of installation. Frankly again yeti cema up against a tough eno te administer. We can ge out there and inspect the thing to make sure it's installed ~.,Jhen we give them back their money er when we sign off on the buildilqg permit. Then going back out there a year later to make sure it ~as dena properly is a second trip and then you're dealing with the homeowner and net the developer. Escrow accounts get rather unweildy. The ansuJer is we can but it's diffi, cult. .u~,u That's a tough Wi!dermuth' Let's see how this works for a while. anything on this? Brian anything here? 8at. zli' L,.Jell I had a question. I didn't look in the code book. Does this .just apply then to people :,~ho enter into development contracts? t<rauss' Exactly Cornrnissioner 8atzli. bJhat '~e do and development contracts _ I J are ~,o~-oee, I mean for every development contract they've been different up L..~ntil abc:,L~-k 2-4 years age. The development contract t4hich is recorded Planning Commission Hooting Hay 1.6~ 1990 -'-Page 1.5 ,.~gair. st the property' Hill have a condition and it's being bJritten into all o'? thorn toda'? that states that the property e~ner~ future property o~ners a'r-.s ob].iga'Lod to install the tree and seed and sod. lhat condition~ the de,.?e].epment contract is filed against the property se anybody that does a title search in the future is going to be made aHare of i't~ Then ~.~hat do .[:-3 ~.,.~hen ~.~e enforce it at the time the building permit's pu~ed ~hich might be 5 years or 5 months after the plat is ~st2~.~ ', ' ! think i.t's a great idea. ~].].son~ I like it too. getter late than never :-lmn'~ir~g:~c' IL looks fine to me. The question raised in my mind is do k~e any different standards {er double frontage lots than ~ge de {er sinqle a8.8 .~O'k. S2 think ~e do. comments. Sesident' When I lived in Richfield~ the City installed and maintained the bo,.u.',e:vard -t:.rees. Trimmed and replaced them when ~hey,~ died. It b~as a real boulevard tree right, next to the street. ,,rauss Yeah, Minneapolis did that too but the tree ~n that cas~x is betNeen the sJ. de~,;alk and the street. Conrad' A little bit different. ~nything else? Is there a motion? Bat. zli: I move that the Planning Commission recommends approval of the an',endmer'~t to the Zoning Ordinance Section 20-92 pertaining to landscaping reci;..~.irements prior to issuance of certificates of occupancy for single famil>' d~,,~el.]..inss as set forth in the staff report dated May 9th.. t,J i 1 d e'r' m u t h 'c,e~ c o nd . Batzli moved, Wildermuth seconded that the Planning Commission recommend approval of the amendment to the Zoning Ordinance, Section 20-92 pertaining to landscaping requirements prior to issuance of certificate of occupancy for single family duellings. All voted in favor and the motion carried. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Emmings moved, Ellson seconded t.o approve the MinL~,tes of the Planning Commission meeting dated Hay 2, 1990 amended as follow, s: S1:.eve Srnmi'ngs stated that the ~orct "ban" should be changed to "band" ~hen referring 'Lo the sign bands. Brian Batzli changed condition 18 of the motion on ~a~e 28 te read, "application and receipt" rather than "a~plicatien or receipt" ~11 voted in favor ef the Hinutes as amended and the motion carr ied~ P].,-annin9 Cornmission Meetils8 Pla>." lx,...,, l°90.. - ?age 16. CZTY 6OUNCIL UPDATE: Krsuss' The meeting on Monday night ~4as the first City Council meeting since you last met so there ~,.~asn't any 'time to ~ri.-te anything into the repo}-t...,, The schedule 9et jumbled up. It's a good excuse. The most ::.si. sni'F~cank t.h'in.:S that }qappened Monday nigllu I believe is the fact that. the S, ;<ding and mining ordinance ~4as approved We're 8oin9 to ce puE, nlishz.'n9 thaL next':. ~,0eek and ~e ~4ilI start to operate under it as soon as possible. (..,~e also prior t.o the City Council meeting held a joint meeting ~4ith the S,oard of r'hd~ustments to d{scuss the variance ordinance and I think the dialogue ~,~.as a 9oc:,d one between the City Council and the Board and basically that ordinance ~ill ~o for~ard to the City Council no~ ~4ith a couple of minor changes and I don't recall exactly ~hat they are but I'll give you tn,:,t information next time That strikes me as the most salient p o i n t s ....¢ "- t . c,~ ~,.s~s happened on Henday ;:5, hrens' Any ~,~ord from Moon Valley? K'Fau. ss' Moo, ri Valley ~.,./as absent from the meeting so I don't kno~ if they re:i;igned to it at this point or what their feeling .]is. 8at. zli' Haybe they don't. ~,~ant to lend ar-, air of legitimacy' to the ordS. nance. 1./" * . ,..rauss That coula be As soon as the ordinance z= published ho~eve'r~ N,'s'r.:? cjoin8 to send them a registered letter saying the clock is ticking. You have 6 months t.o cje~ a permit. ONGOING ITEMS' Conrad' Any comments about the status of our work agenda? Open issues? A ny'loody care? Bat. zli' Did t,¢e add Bluff preservation to this or should that just kind c,f be ]_umped in Hith rezonin9 8F district? I guess it's a potential zoning district ordinance. Conrad: It's a 9cod question Brian. Have t~e updated? It says revised May ?th. Have (4e put any ne~4 ~4erk items in here Paul? Based on last ~4eek's ~eeLins~ I t. heusht ~e had several that we ~Jere seine te tackle but I can t '~- ,23 fi]e m }') e r t. - .~ t,.,~tla,., they are. Krauss: k. Jell Ne did change a couple things. What exactly He changed. Number 2 urlder zoning code amendments ~ith the 8F district, ~e added that Ne ~,~ere 9eins 'to prepare a new zoning district for your review. I don't have a time frame for that but He'll do it as soon as time permits. Did you hear Brian's question He asked about 'Vhe bluff o r ,:i i n a n c e. K'rauss' Oh, as a separate item? Cemmissi~,~n Hooting 1990 - Paso 17 n a' L s f i n e .:2c;~ .... a<..~," t,,I.::~ ',..<.~>.1 kec~ .... about another, issue and that was the .junkyard down. there. Is; that a s:eparate subject? '~,-'~.'-, ......... Ne]..l to the extent that the junkyard's not in the 8F district no~,~ Ix,. / yJ t~_ .r.} .~i,~ ~ ~ It's so'ct of a separate subject that should be researched~ ~4e can put that ,..~'~o~.,~n. I'd like to ~2.Jork [,.Jit. ln ~oger.. on that Conrad' Okay Another ,~= .. . c,~=. that we talked about and I don't know if it's our ~.~S:f.-~Lle right now but we talked about storm water n:anagement and I know ~ '/OLI~\Te CdOt a central te do some things. De I assume that ~.e nav~ ne role? ,,.r.:::uss Well Chairman Conrad a.t th~s point in t~me there s no work actually proceeding on storm ~..~ater management or Hetland ordinances or ~4.ater qnalit'/, b~hat ~.,.,e'v'e been doing is working with the City Council on exploring the possibility of a storm water utility district which would be used i'f it's appreved~ to generate funds to de those plar~s at such time as t. ho:!3e~ right no~g Ne"re just doing the financing mechanism. ~t such time as ,~,,,,~o plans are actually underway I rn sure we'll be ~orkinc~ ~ith you int..ensively on Lhem. ~.;o','~r~:~.~ Anybody feel a need to put that on the work program or .~-~hould ~,.~e u,..-,'s~-. ].e~. i,~ ride until it s financing? Anything else that ~e can remember from last week or t~o weeks ago? Okay~ ADMINSTRATIVE APPROVALS' Cc:n-tad' ~,re the're an;..' adm,~instrative approvals? Krauss: Actually there's one that we declined to approve adrainstrativel, y and t~Ji!l be bringing te the City Oouncil. Kind of an interesting point te dici':-ess on a little bit. The Press is looking to comply ~ith some PCA regulations and te cio that they need some sect ef an afterburner deal~ a roof mounted eystern that's quite large. The burner unit itself is about 40 feet long and 14 er 15 {eel high and there's a mass e{ duct ~erk that h:~:',Te ko go up on the roof and there's also a 50 foot high chimney that they're looking at. And this is the initial proposal. ~,Je're very concerned Nith Hhgl.:. it might leek like. kle want to Mock p.~i. th them te make sure the air is as clean as possible but in the interest of expediting their need to :.:::sF, ond to the PC¢:, ~.,~e're probably going te try to bring that before the City Council at their next meeting. They're under a deadline from the PC~ 'For june 6'l:h I think te bring the thing into compliance. Emmings' NJhat are they putting into the air that this system will 'Lake ,::>~...~to Do you kno~? l<:s. uss: I don't, know. It has something to do with the presses. These are e::,.,'.l-',aust :~ystems for the presses. They're now vented out and what this is 1'1o do is burn Lip whatever they're venting out. Exact. iF what it is I kno~,~. ~ gave the report to .lay ~fehnsen. He's the person I kneM that .... ,au ar, u, he ~hought they' ~ere on line and doing something en'v'ironmenta~.~y soul]d. ~...'~.",c: Rivki.'F~ I ca'n shed some light on L~h~s. I asked the Pollution Control r.~'~ 9.:.~ r~ c: y w h a t w a s g o k n g o n a n d t h e y t o I d rn e t h a t t h e P r e s s w a s c i t e d f o r t o o mkch opacity in their smoke. It's llet a visual prohleril. I asked them~ ~ ~4.x;]_I does opacity rea.~y mean it .just ~ooks bad and he said no~ it means it con'kains cont. arr~inants that are net acceptable. Se what are they going to .:..~'.:3 o.-"-~,ouf.., it~:- l,,lel. A he said they're supposed to put in some scrubbers in 5u'ne. b..Ihak, these pipes are smoking out here is solids heavy metals e, -'~ ai"e c.el-icer ,as.u:!~.i"i8~ ~nto ' ~ ai and they~r~ going te they come off the I... J~ .L. ,,~::a,_.~ u. he press that dries and this water vapor that you see the ~hit. e srnokx~, .~ cont. air~s a~ th~o~eo~ contaminants. Z~, they put the scrubbers in~ fl~e~. o-',--city ~4ill 90 away along with the ce'ntaminants se the P,~-~ measures it in i--' o .. term:~ o'F how i'I3 ~ooks but it's rea].~7... I have some~ I don't knew what t'he Press is really doing about their schedule {er this but it didn't sour~c~ ]_iRe t~-~ PCA was rea~y spending the time to kind ef keep en it to make I I~;.. sure Lh~:~t. they are staying on the preblems. I think they said the local author i hie::3 were supposed te be doing that. · .. susa No, that's not true and 'the POA's given them a 3uno 6th dead] t. c, ,c o rn p 1 '/. S'r'~c Rivkir," They gave them a deadline? ~ric Rivkir,: Okay. He told m.e that those guys were, they re unclerstaffed n.::~ the'/ ,...~on t have any time. they lust :said the opaci~ w unacceptable. They really den~t know what's in the smoke but I was in the printin<s bu. siness for a while and it's pretty bad stuff. ',<tau. ss: hiD, it's actually a furnace type unit as I understand it. I met N~.th Lhe .sl-igineers and we ta~ked about an internal ~ocat~on and they were afraid of locating it internally {er fire hazards so I~m going te meet. Nith them again on Friday to get some more definition on their plans but it's sorr~ethin9 t. hat. we want te expedite. ~T'r-.{.c Rivk~n: R,? products ar,- supposed to be carbon dioxide and a few contami nents. Reside'hr' You don't burr, off heavy metals. You have to scrub them out ~l].so',-',' We'll find out soon enough won't we X',.-a,.~.::ss' I,,lel]. as you can see this is Why we didn't want to admins'trative].y approve COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DISCUSSION - REVISIONS TO LAND USE MAP, UPDATE ON SCHOOL DISTRICT PLANS AND TEXT ISSUES. Paul 1{rauss presented the staff report on this item. Planning Commission Hooting !"lay 16, 19.90 - Page 19 C.:;:.r, rad' Let's go back. You covered a lot of stuff and I think where you r~;i~-~ht be very 'Familiar with it, we're probably not. Paul, start back~ ~..e~ s go through these one at a time I ,~ o~ . ~u~c want %o see i{ we've got cor~-~rr.:ents from the commission and maybe even the public here might not be a bad idea t.o hear what they're having to say about some of these. Go through you'd" ~ist. Start us of'l:. i<rauss' kJith the land use? Yeah. Land use. Or let's start at Transportation. I think ~,,,here you started wasn't it? Ti'i'!m i rigs ' Natural features. ?Cr.sus:-3" Nell i'latural features is in the text that you received. Co'n",-acl' O' ...... tha. t'~ good You don't need to talk to us about it Any ,:'3o[i'1i1'1~2n~.:3 oil what the text was? liked the revisions to it To the text Conrad' I thought it was outstanding. I just think it's really neat. You Nero going to say something negative weren't you and ! kind of beat you te !l~s punch . ,_=mn'~ings' No, I've got some little things that. I want to, I can talk to Paul about separately because they're basically stylistic but everal! l theu. ght it was good. The eno thing that I think is sort ef substantative is if a little !}it trivial. I noticed in the natural features section we say we've get 9 ].aRes and then the land use section en page F it says we've get ? }aRes. I ti:ink within our own report ,we ought te be consistent and I 'm cu~'r-ious as te hew many lakes we have. i(rau, ss' W.:.e. !4il]. definitely, we'll count them all~ Conrad' That's really a good section. It really tells yOU what we're for a nd hot,.J we're going to do it. Here I thought you guys Here going to complain about how long it Conr~_ic, It s ~,Jo'rthy of that length t'm real pleased with that. Whoever k~or,,..~..~., on that, I think they did a nice .job. Nex~ item on your laundry ,,.rauss Okay, getting into the la'nd use First one we talked about, adding road network and the new reads that were added. ,~.~onrad' So how do you want us to react to the road network this ti th.~s, do }.'eu ~.;a. nt reaction Paul? We haven't really spent a let of time ].ooking at. it. Plann';nS Oommission Hooting .;-.i~.~.:>.-' 16 ~ le?O - Page 20 '.""r..~.,uc.:s I guess M'r. Chairman we've been, sorne of these roa, c.,s have been o'n p~-ev].<>u~:'; F.].ans. I asked Hark to include them on the Comp Plan itself eo that >'ou c:c,(~ld see hew it fit together ~ith the land use. [.de'll be di.:ncu:B:s[.nS the individual road segments and traffic loadings, etc. in detail. ~..~hen the transportation elements discussed but if you. have any ~,:~..-'.'~-'al comment, s, Y'd be happy to hear ..,.,o./~ e there any general con'~Ne'nts. ~'i ~:.~c'~n' T ].ik'~ 'the roa,d that he put in I remember thinking a,~ the same 'tilths when the Shardlew's gave a presentation that that Nas a 8ced idea kh.~.nl< t. ha't's a good one to add ,_,c~r,t. The service road itself at. TH 5, ~.hy is 'that located f~-oh'~ TH 5 cofftpared te the north road? Krou ...... : The north of h, igh~ay ~, is a service road I~'s always be¢~'n sho~n ,',a~. makes development rather difficult. Basically you have a o~x~d strip and then you have the road I guess it does provide a buffer ?~"c.-~-~ ', as uael]. On tine south side we leek at the connecting points for c.r'~au 'r-cad and they re sen'iel,~hat displaced from TH 5. bJe come off of the r, lce!';~'nr,'ss site where MoGlynn's had a road platted and bringing that across and if we'd like in fact to connect it ultimately te this road cooing u.p te Ti..,~ fi.l~ it displaces the center line south. If you can't have against. TH 5~ the next best thing is to split the difference so exn,.u, de,, reorn on either side. How s the land bet~geen limberwood and that 'road zonede ~:.~'~-.::';.u:s::-; I,. s guided single family. It's the same zip code as elo_.k, here n c.,~%- cc~mrnu.'nity. It didn't print dark enough but it zs t. he same... ;Trnming::..::' I think that there's an error on the land use map. The}, final].'/ have changed, ].f you look at Ohos Mar and there's that long strip there that'.:-.: {ndicated, it looks like it's part of the ions strip Se.lng down 'l':.e~g~:~}c~s he lake It looks like it's part of the Campfire camp That '~or,~t. That':rs private e~nership and it tnas a little beet that sticks out to 'the north that connects it to the lake. Conrac!' Yeah~ there's a flag 'that gives it access. ~:rnm.ings' This is privately owned and it comes out like this. That's $' ~- i v.< t e 1 >' o t,~ n e d a 1 s o. We'll correct it. I've got a question too. If you. look at Lake St. Joe just as ar; · ther.~':~ little tre-~ symbols all around Lake St Joe What does C o rn m ;'~ s s .i. o n H e e t i n g 3.990 - ?a~e 2~ }(ra,J:es' Haybe ~.,.~e need to clarify that as ~Jell. Theoretically the tree ..... m,:.~.~ park No~J I rn aNare tl~.ae a lot of that ~s ~,~etland n~s..nSs ~ lot of it~ in private o~nership ~{~ ~..-~u:~s:~}~· NeI.]~ yes and t<~e~ve ta~ked to a ceupie developers abeu. t it recc~ntly. I~].1 have te confirm that Nith the park beard. k!~.',~ninS~s',,,,,, nut~ . Nho dec,des te ~ut trees around ~te. ~ ~m net sure ~her~ that C:Oh]e8 f'FC:,rl]: N'rauss' Well the trees~ Hhere the tree symbols occur Nhere there's rot ck~'~"Y'ent~y a park, ~t impZies there"s an intent to create a park there. ...:nrnings 0kay~ that's fine ',Crsu:~s ~u. knou,~ if you look on Lake ~nn Park, there s a 30 acre chu. nk of :'2'vo~x]' ',,::~ u~ '~'~,u~'l: 7 think Ls ob~ned by the church right no~ that's being, sho~,~n as a park exF)ansion. Same thing c]oNn at 8andimere and He're showing neb~ park .a,::~qui. sit~on by Rice Harsh Lake. ~ ns~_ ou should ]ook at thi~ ae what the City Nould look like in the }.'ear 2000. S[l'irninss;' 0r after. ~].l~'i:on' 0r Neuld like to look l{ke -'onrad' Nhat ~.~ere ~.~e lust talkinS about? Emrninss' The trees. ~ ....... ~ d.,:s The tr~' yeah but ~s corridors before Chat Conrad ' Corr idor's . Nmm.~.'r~Ss ou mont..lo'ned Lake ~'nn Park ....~./son ka. ke St. 3oe. ',2 o n'r- a (::{ P i d ~,J e -F i n i ~ h; NraJJ.:~:N:' Do you Nant to go to the next one: Conrad' L. et's go to the next. one. ',<rau...~.s:' L,.Je].l the next one Nas the creation of an office designation and c-:r~'~r:,].oying ~ a't a couple looations around limberNood. C o m m i s s i o n t, lee t i n g ?90 - Page 22 rS o n r a ,:.'J ' T h a t ,,,,, a s U r s u 1 a ' s s u. g g e s t i o n ? l<'raus~' Ursu. ia suggested it and frankly it's something that hasn't been don~::~ on p-revic)u.s Chanhassen plans but I've done it eise~here. I mean it's ri,...,,, siq UllCOrfl~'~c,'Q p~act~oe. b.li].dermuth' t4e did have an office institutional. thought ~,~e had something also had sorne'k, hing that ~,.~as called the OI designation. K'rsuss ~t,d,. s ~ .ill a zoning designation. St Hubert's is zoned that T,'r,n'~il"~.~s' It's .just office though but ~4e still have OI. '"~:Jc¢.'rtr~uth Yeah and if you loc:ate a school ~ ...... a~,Jhere around there~ .r',.-; s ~..,~hat it bJkll be. It b~ll be the O! off,.ce i-nsfitu'L/onal :....._:~,.incjs' Tne',e s no c, ffice institutional Krsu. ss' There's a zoning district that's office institutiona!. F . g .... It's not on the key ,.rfi,qqin o l<rsu.x;s: Well because this is a guide plan. It's not a zoning map. That's something that needs to be made clear. The guide plan will not change the L..'.r~cler!yii"~g moning~ bJhere you have larse tracts that are zoned rural residential right no~ and if the guide plan sho~s it as lob~ density~ it's not .going te change until the property owner makes a rezoning petition te the Ci'lt>' sn<J t. he City accepts that development plan. ~,~,~.~.ident' Does c)ffice rnean buildings like industrial things like The Press c ou 1 d be ' ' · ~u~.lt there? ,-,, suss No, it means that office uses would be there and I think if we haven t o,:~fine,'J it yet ~hat ;,~e ~ould defer is that over 80~ of the ~.. ,' ] 4 ~.:,~:L~,eing has t.o be office. Ahrens' Over 8Or? ~son Or u~hatever ~e designated it Conrad' Are Ne all comfortable ~ith the new district? Does anybody care? · '.!].'~son' t4ell u,,hat's the reasoning behind it? It .3d~c." ~.'~ ........ =~,,,s~. like it's less t. hreate, ni'r~g than industrial or ~hatever? K,.".auss' We].l i't is in a b~ay. Zoning used to be a pyramidal thing. It b~a.s based c,n a heirarchy of uses ~gith the single family home at the top and ~;'~,::~-e and more intensive uses at ~h~ bottom u~ith the idea that you eegregate Planning C.omrrlLssion Meetin$ ~',1a}; I.~.'-,-~, ~.9~,u - Page 23 ...?:: v.? r ').,' c:, 'n e f r o rn t h e o t h e r o n e. T h a t ' s n o t t h e ~J a y t h e r e a 1 ,,.,.~ o r I d f u n o t i o n s 'out c:.f~ice use is generally regarded as lees intensive than ~ndustrial use.: You do'n~t, hax/e heavy trucks. You. den~t have shift work. lhe buildings are Cc-n.::;~r,:rs.l~ly more attractive or hopefully they are. Traffic is often worse klildermu, th: Paul~ hov~ is the office designation goi. ng to differ from the old office institutional? l(','"ak.~ss' Well Jo) An'n, Nas the office institutional ever on the guide plan i.t:.sel'i:? It's a zoning district se they're different il1 that respect. Nas never s designation en our Comp Plan that said strictly effice~ Th.ere was a question er comment out there. Did I see a hand? ?..! ;,3, 'r y l-la'r-rington: Yeah. The comment a couple questions back Hhen it came d..."x,u.~n to the road. On the map it shews the service read like TH 7 has... and I unoers~.ar~d ~,~hat Paul says...Why can't they come off the north end of ':.-h,:~ H,;..(ilynn's road instead ef the south end ef it and have it back up to the road and then conic out like they do on the ether side where it's closer ,..~F:,? lhey're not cutting off the area down there and leaving these tracts or whatever it. is up closer to the read. I realize that you.~re trying te prc:,mot.s certain ~c, ca'Lions and they couldn't sw~.ng down once they made i'k. past.. Oalpin~ we'd get a different loop across the front end...halfway through and they connect back dean te ~herever the impact street is. Nhy do Ne ha',/e t.e So cutting through the middle e{ it? Kr.~i:.'.u:~3:-3: Nell theoretically any of those alignments is possible. 8asica!!y yeti want to connect the end points. New what yeti want te de~ ideally the co'nnection 'from HcGlynn's would be further south so you have continuity Nith F'ark Road~ We can't do that perfectly because of the Nay developrner~t ?',as occ;Li'r"red but ideally yet don't want to introduce a~ that traffic up to TI{ 5. You'd like te persuade sene of it te ge south se yet den~t Hant that i'nt:~'rs.:;:~ct.~on a.~ that c~ose te TH 5. ~s te where the road goes internal, ly in there~ frankly anything's possible. Yet don't want it toe curvalinear. !t i:s a eo~lector street we're anticipating. The mere curva~inear it the less it will be used. The one on the north is a collector street too? h!ar¥ Har'rington: Well, I realize that you don't want it to be super curvy or anytlning but it still could function by going up a little higher off the other and I realize you're trying te corr~e elf the park but that would also ad.:;", congest.i~on te the area which there is planned residential south o'F the road and on either side of the read but parts ef it yet wouldn't want to make it a collector street that close te tine residential although busyness c:,'n this type of street is !ess offensive than industrial er an office or a school use would be te existing residentia!~ Then I don't see the~ I rea].i, ze the point about t. he park but I don't see why we can't ailing up and l~a'v"e some sort of, swing back up to TH 5 and do like we're doing on the r~c ......=,o, ily run all the traffic through the area · r'lor'tlh c'nd Ex'ncJ Nhy a're we .~ .~o~: .... - ~ , ~_,<:::r',,. The offices ~.~ould p'r'obab~y like to face TH 5 too and get. ,,,.,-i :~.. i '-' i 1 i/:.'>, o n T i--I ~- ' 4.- t'. ' ' ~ ba. ck i,j-,.] ..... ;:',-rnu ,h 8.s. served from tn~ . ........ ~ ......... ,~t~n,:t they ,,.,ould be doing that They k,~ould be oriented to TH 5. Reside'r-~t' And then the address ~,~ould be to the back of it.. i<'~".~-~u.s?-:: Nell one thing that didn't sho~,~ here, if you look there's t~o c:or'r~iclor:.~s t~Jith trees in them shown in that area. Both of those are creeks. .I ,z~luff Creek The western one is also a location that MnDot has sai. o you can 8c:(3ess IH 5 se there Hould be a link from that. internal read up to TH 5 st that p,:Din't and that office site, if the office goes there~ b~ould access c:,{f t. hat link. ~'-~!'~-e'r~:.:~ As far as collector streets being located in resident, iai 'r~<~;]ghhorhc, o,ls, they're located ill residential neighborhoods throughou, t the ont..ire plan. lhey run through Kerber 81vd., the}' run en Pleasant View ~ead a'n.:.'~ doNn l_al<.e Lucy ~ead. I mean there's houses right on all. those c:c)l]..ect~c,r streets. ~9. rnn-~ings' The parcel that's identified as a school search area ~.,~it.h the aster/ici, what's the size of' the parcel, of the whole thing from Ga. lp:[.n ,-',', ~ e "r- t C:, t u. . ..~ ,,.s 'trees and down t.o limberweed f,<ra, uss' It's approximately 40 acres. That would be the school site. The school ~4ould need the e'ntire space? i:(rauss' And the road ,would have to skirt around that somebody. ~rnn',i c.o- Then the 'road ~ould have to be on either the north end or '~he s o u t h e n d. l<ra. uss' Depending on how the school plan develops, yeah. Emrnings' So t. her~ are a lot of things that can impact tlne location of this r o a d ~ ?..'rauss: I ha',;e to add too that the road on the north side that's set. up as .~:~ f'r'ontsge road was developed for a different purpose. It came ou.t of the d.o~,,!ntc,~.~-)n development and the do~,~nteHn main street extended te the Nest and a c!es.ire to serve L. ake Ann Park to provide safer intersection to Lake Ann Park and net run the street somewhere through the middle ef the park bu.t minim{z.,'? the irt:pact. .5o it fei_lo,ed al1 alignment that paralled TH 5. C:onr.sd' If t. he school goes i'n there, and that's probably really -- --,', ,,.'-,'l~.he'L.{cal, do 14e really need a collector then: ::('rau..'~s' Possibly not.. It ~.,Jould still be desireable from a traffic :~::t.:;..n::..~i..,~,ir, lr~ to have it. but you'd have te ~.Jeigh the pros and cons. I{ a S.ChO0]I S(ll:'e~ i'r', tlhere~ you still have a loop if you ~ill from Mcely'nn~s g._-~,{'~-~..:~ nor'l;'~ t,~, b.~her,a that connection is en TH 5 and then the continuity . ' .... ~ o t. - t.:-,~.~e r hat point and that may be sufficie'nt Ah-¥'en:!-:~- T ,,,~ou].d think that it ~4ould be even more necessary ~f the school r,ere uhen. To have a street located. Coi',~ ....... a ...... ~ .'~sc:ces:;s to the school. ~..:,~'~ en{~: ,~:uh, access uo the school E.~ .... s,:7;,r~ ,.,,~-,, eus everyone turning left off of TH S All the buses and e ',.? e 'T' }.'" Lt h i /"1 g ~ ¢:,.h r e n s ' R i g h t. ,k'.rauss:' I'd have to add too that the traffic levels that ~,~e're sho,~ing f',-oin Eastern Carver County traffic model on TH 5 are extrerne~y high. You"re looking at, the model's projecting 40,000 te 50,000 trips a day~ On ''-'. ro.u.o, tha s an abJ ul lot of traffic If you can keep people 'r.,~.~t 'LYi.Oe of ..... ' t' 'F off of t':h, at, local tr~ps off of t. ha~ ~t ~.4ouLd be sa¢ex for evex~body. ?~h¥.:::;i"~;' E:specia].ly the people driving kids to school. C.;o'r-~'rad .,.~:,e¢.h. It's a valid point. ,;.l..'-.::.~-;.{dcrt' ...the other 'L~4o possible locations 'For the school, I think you rn.$ 'r.,-k. i c, n e d t h'r e e. Nra.'..!ss: The school looked at a site north of TH 5 near Lake Ann Park whlc?: ! t. hink is Gor'ra's property. They also leered at a piece of property on 'Lhe south' part ef the ~ckankar site. The Eckankar site raises some problems for the City and for the school district. If the Park's going tc, be exF:,anded as b~e ~4ant it te be, there's net enough teem te put a school i'n there and you've get to also question the point ef putting a school s,:JSacent to the main street of Chanhassen b~hich is soineday going te be ,!cv.P],::~F:.e.:J ,:;.on'~r:]ercial~y. Also, in terms of proximity to the students, it ',.,fas t. oc~ far east.. The Gorra site is a possibility. The grades didn't .,~:F,peal to tl'~em a:s much. You only have access off that frontage road or off TH 5 on t'.hat parcel ~4hich makes it a little mere problematic te use and I gues:;-~; from .~ staff point of vie~, it didn't encourage their residential corridor t.o jump south o{ TH 5 as b~e felt a school might. Did t;hey you look at 'the Host of Galpin uss No they didn't because that's not being proposed t.o be sewered ':!.;; outside 'Lhe study area. Re:~;ider~t' You. mean on south of TH 5 and ~aest of Galpin Road is not part ? }~ .~, n n ~. n g C o m m ~. s s k o n H e e t i n g '"'~,-.,.~},'" i r--~ ~ ~. 990 - Page ~x~ l.("r,s.~u:?~:c.' Oh sou. th of TH~ ~' is. The school d~str~ct, cl~cl., rcu~ look i,n t'n~-'.re, Any reason for that? suggested some sites ~,ith them. We went out and lookeu at thein 'nd those were the ones we came up with ~-<.:z.::':;:,,u.~.~ nt.' t,.lhat. ~,.,,'~ld he different about going west or caste !<'r-.:~:u:3'a t4.'.e].l ~e.~t. of Galpin you run into some environmental constrai'nts l,,~h.~:i:.'r.::?: -,'..'-:,~ rca is she{4n coming through~ the single family area to ...... ,_ o ,_tee cover ~ ~ school 'needs ~,~uur is ciu].te full of wetland~:~ and extensive ~ · '~ ...~ '-'k.~nsive areas if they're not already cleared The . _ (.J ~ . .. ; ::, '-r .:%-. -F e r 'r e~ _, site right no~ is the cultivated field. There's nothing to '~here. ~t can be graded quite easily. The area to the north between that '~- ,-, .::/.~ n d T ~ .~, really wgsn C ~Tge ~nough to ~ccommod~te ~he schoo~ ').,ou '~-e.c~].].',/ pu,.~he,:t ~ furBher ~o the ~es~ ~nd ~f you push ~t. ~hat f~'r- to ',,..~-::~::~:'..~ Js that. st~l ~ Ch~nh~ssen school ~ tha~ po~n~. Co~, ..:~,.._", ,...~"n'/ more quest.~ons, in relation to fhe~ schools? Anything ?Jar'?.' l-lar'r-ington: It's my understanding Paul, you said the site adjacent ~4as selected by you after you fo~ks had gone out and seen severaA different sites Nith the school district and they had net formally picked a site~ lh,.?:¥ had preferer~ces 'For a few of them and from my understand.i, ng from the sent!crash you did net shokg them anything in the section that we have a he'r.t;,~o¥'tt:.aA .line on the left hand side ef th~s map south ef TH 5 and .just. east of TH 41 where yOt! see a little bump out section deHn there, there's presently a house down there. That area is very f~at. It a~so has acreage t. hat is t. il].ed and what not. That ~as net. shown to them? Is that correct paul? :<.'rauss: Well Hary, what we sho~ed to them, we had discussed 3 sites or, a and 'k. hen we brought them out here and went out with their architect. drove up and down the corridor and they were looking at the entire ,:-:o',-ridor. Ne ].coRed specifically at 3 sites that had been chosen. ;~,~.~, './ I. la'r-r~ng,~.on You had p~cked on a map for them? ~{ '!' a u. :~ s ' Y e ?, . blary Har'ri'ngton' I mean you didn't pick out that one t.o take s look at ..... ,.-auss' Not in detail, no H~}'r'/ t-larri'ngton: No. Okay, maybe that's a site that you might be closer the mi,:Idle and some sort of service road ap.d being on a service road mi{.~ht not:. be that bad of an idea. I know in Edina one of the high schools sitt~n.:.~ on a service road elf of the free~ay and it didn't stop the cars the Ir:, u .?: e s: from {ietting te the high school or jknier high en the east. :31./.e. Y forget. ~ did send my kids there. 8ut ~ drove past it all tile t:irr~c, .... on t. he service road they Nero able t.o get to it. I'm in questi, en .~.:~.:,,::::.u i:.{:;ki, ng tr~d~~ entire 40 acre site just north of T'- ~ '-' nd king i.n ~; n:,uilding ~¢hich in effect, is very ~imilar to an office building .~; .¢~: :~.~: t'. ,'",,-"-. ~ c ¢,,. 1 I. '?' a n d w .~ t h b a ~ A f ~ e ~ d s a n d p a r k s, e ~., b e c a u.s e t. h e j u n :L o r h .i. ¢4 h '- -., .... ' life indoors. Y c:~.~.{.~ ou k no~ you have gym ,:u~ %:'iq are 'riOt. {iolng t.o spend their i::;Tm,~:: sr'~d b~hst Ne have effectively done then is L,.~e have cut off the u~:~'r'~t. 2a].u.~' me~ be~een ~he T~m~exwood ~'~-e~, ~'nd ~us% noxt. h o~ ~ and _ l~ zon g kn on the other side~ you've also c:u'~ off the · res:..,.uer'~t~Jal uses and potential because as you said~ south of that curvy ~ ~:..:,d,:~ Or'~ Lhe west si. ce of ealpin there is a lot of lo~,~land and trees and ., .. '-- s,su developeo into houses unless ~Je ,.:,;.~t o'F !.und ;tn tlne future and they want...so what you've done is you've c~-F-Fect, ively c:ut off sociologically the site of limbe'rwood and on the ,~'.c'~" ~-;{,::'~la'r ,~se map you have surrounded it ~ith offices~ a school which i"" ; ......... f;.x'r-~t, ic:,ns and looks aesthetically like an office~ another office and t. hen '>..'ou've dragged the commercial out and you have psychologica].ly and .emot.~.onal]y totally closed off that community of Tirnberwood and the ' -J - t.,dho 1 ii_v - -,--~:u~.u,..~,;:nL:~.~: .,. e on the other s~de of 8a. Ap.tn and the peop].e who don t .~i.v'e i'n Tin,,o,s~-~'~-'Hood ~"~.,uu~' they are on ealpin just below it. I don't, find fhat.. .... t 0 b e . . . ~.o,~r ~.~.c:" c,-...,.., your point is~ you really don't want a school, there°, is that real].y whs'tl you're saying? ]'hat's a long way ef telling us. There are a lot of sites for schools but I'm just trying ,~,{ ...... y' ..... F{.3. rriricot:.on' I would like a school. ,~' o n r a ct ' N o t. t h e r e e :.:~:,.';y', .:_,.~';-ri'r,-s,.on Not necessarily pushed in rny back yard :2 o 'r, 'r .3 ,:!, Y,::~u said some other things that ue gusu have to respond to~ r.sa.] ].y )"~a'~e'r~'t.~ we've been trying to cluster residential around and your s:t.~-~'Lerncnt v,~as i4e've tota.[~y cut you off and I don't understand wh .... : '" i n q hla',-').' Harri'r'~gton' ~4ith this particular concept with the offices. · -~ --'- No, X heard what she said $omebody's making a comment that ~ ,~,.~a.s ~g'rc:,ng but I hearcl exactly what she said. ~''' r~:i}~ ~}' ,-,srrington Okay. ~f I could refer to the other one that ~.~ have he're ~,.~e've got. reside'ntial, the last map...residential uses were all in the ,~}'r.?:3. t,..~'nere it's zoned office and then it Has a~, just kind ef that section a]..], c. he Nay clc,~,,~n and ~'hen there ~ae residential~ '~ ' an:': ;ne,:.~.{.u.m ~n~ity and then regular density just t,~ the north of i.,.. and i uh.?n {t swung a~round ~git. h this tiny little strip and se there .... ~ '~-.3~:'~{.cJe?',ti.a].. [',!ot.,~ this residential has been eAiminated okay and it's beerl s~,..~t. ~::,~f by changing t. hJ.s thing to putting the offioes that had r~oide'rtzsl · , .... ' - Re sense2 Haybe i ~asn't explaJ~ning it r~ght I'm .{ust ~x:ayi'ng thah ~f ~e~re ~oing to put a school in~ maybe ~e should~.~ . I~ t,..~h.:.~--e ther.::~ :Lsn't a Lc, t of neighbors around it so the nekg~bors ~,.~ho ',/ol,..l.r~te::er to reeve around the schooZ as opposed to putting a school in and Plann.[ng Commission Heeting t. he existing group of neighbors ~ho maybe are not interested part of the school and net residentiaI uses there Co'nrad' Any other comme'nts on schools? ~.-,.~:~::~i-'-nt,:;.:,.~ ~t a prior meeting, I think it was .... no one ~anted ~o pu,.. any den ity residential there because nobody ~anted kids anywhere near lhak Nas a big issue was hey, He don't, want kids near TH 5 and not4 gc, i'ng t.o put a school c,n TH 57 It just doesn't make sense. Then , I ,.z:,z:~d that ~,~e put a schc, ol in and residentiai tends to develop arc, uno ss Ha'fy points out, he's putting office on the left, office o'n the commerc~la~ across the street. Ne could devalue 3 sides by no~ -re:z:.tde'nt. ia].~ you c;sn't put residential there. There's not going to be any a'k. tr.~:o.c.t~.c,n. There's not going to be deve.~oped any residential arou. nd the ~.f no~ Ne ye changed the land just west o{~,~-'lpin ~o~ of{ice and the. ¥~9'nt ~a~th.i.n office... It s going to be basically cut o{~ compLet'ely j'] {::{ '1"1 T i ' - -~ ' r,-,p~xrw~.oe and there's that lo~ wetland to develop off of there '~' -' t "- .2::~,',~'rad: Sust to quickly respond. The school district picked that site c:.L;t. They said that was fine se we're not experts in locating school, s. Z t.h{_nk yo',J.'r c:omments en close 'he traf{ic, that's interesting. I think they obvious]>; fee~ that that's not a problem but stil~ it is. It's ef i~-;terest to me that. they'd Hant te locate a school ena busy street. ,~-n~"in..2s' HJ_nne'lsonka Hi.(gh School1 's oin TH ?. {: o ','~'r' a ,.! ' H i n ne. t o n k a ' s t. h e r e t o o. Hopkins High .School. ,,.~,-.~oo~.,...~.._,~.~ ira..~ really a key function I guess for school districts. st i,::: F-.'.ivkin~ ~ n~,~.v~ a question, maybe Paul could an. skier this Is there a p.:i:,:s, it. iwe impeot or the design that Eden Prairie did with their Eden Prairie l-.{igh Sc:hoo~ and the park at ~ound Lake Park, the community center k~nd o'F all. rolled into one big pile e{ land there. I mean te Ne it.~s bordering r.:?s:~.dent~a], but I kno~ a lot of the residents that ii,se there are, they're d,.?velopecl so nicely they clon't mind seeing that because they've got the park~ it's kind of a buffer te the school. They've got Duck Lake and all t-.Nat stuff behind there and the residents in the Duck Lake were t. here {:.ef,r:,r~-:~ the. high school went in. There were some objections and stuff but after it Nent in the design e{ the high school and everything, put all t. he '...:.a', i-F;i.e]_ds an,t al~ that kind of noisy stuff toward the park where it k~as a good design. I'd like to know in clusting that kind e{ thin9~ woL~ldn't ~.t'ist be more o'F a, to 'Find a t,~ay to kind of work that into the plan if the school district, I don't think they're really in the business e{ planning .~::~;.:':';r,,':n¥'!~ties. ~ think they're in the business ef schooling your ohi. ldren so is?rhap~; 'next te the Arboretum instead ef an industrial area there~ perhaps "..~.','-~et. t4ou.]..:t make a better site. You've get ponds that needs to be developed i'r~k.o sorne'k, hing like park. Tile Arboretum I know, l~ve talked to these ~.: :% ,~- :,~ :~ ~..:2 :. t h c } ..... -'~ -. .~..~.a ..... of the Arberetum, they de net 1.iRe a Fleet Farm or '.,:~-",.;~-l. ever as the proper land rise {or that next to the Arboretum. They fear '.-.i'. ~,.....~,&:.'~ se ,,,~ill haH}~>en to that both environ~,~en,.~lly a'nd aestnet.ically to tt ,.::..~'~,:J.'r~:,_.. ......... s OhO o the most inapporpriate zonings ~'ve ever seen on 'I:.}~ n': ~;:,u' t think that might be a good site. Haybe come in from '-.~ ' .... . That might be a better r.rL,,.:::.'," 'rr~...~n fr,:c>rr~ T., 5 like you did at Round Lake . xs: ,.. ,.. c:, ane it's ,.,incl of a nice buffer for the ~rboretum Tt ~.~ould'n't. be ' :'~.:~)'~'~;ty i"e:~;iclential> it ~,so,..l~d be offices and se forth so t. ha'h 8 juat su{iges3tion. Maybe think about that. I,' ........ I ,...~ ....... ;;sT~: el.]. the 'next one l~as a minor one It ,,., ~. . t~Jas the 8luff Creek trai] ' - ~- n'.- Anything? Then t,Jhere _.~¢~y~ any comments on the Bluff Creek© ' / -.., ...., . :-~'r;~us{:z:' The MUSA donut hole and treatment of Timber~,~ood and Lake Lucy Cc~','rad' So talk to me about the 2 1/2 aore deal. I ~uess your perspec:tive c:.~'~ ,t.l'~:~ti:z~ kind of ne~,~. I ~ent throu, gh the 2 1/2 acre dea.~ many years age. lhe karo [.UCy Highlands issue, tell me ~hat yokL~re thinking in terms that Pau.].. ',<rau. s:c' Nell L. ake LUCy Highlands t.,~as platted under the same c~rdinance~ pre ,:~,.... ordinance tha't c~-eate,d Ti. mber~ood. ~t's a ~° ~/~p acre plus su. bd ?:;~ .... nooo tha .... · hat ,.z pJit. h or/ sit. e se~er arid as t~ith TimberNood, the likeli' ~ ~:.~ou.l.d be further subdivided er need utilities in the future is pretty m'~r~ir~a! se ~e thought there ~as geed reason te think that they shenld be ,~.iealt ~i't:.h ~n a si. mi~ar manner. Co,~o' NebJ your perspective en that~ you kne~g t.,Je have a petit{eh in front{. D'? Lis tc.l'-iish'li. HoN ~,.~hat~s here en this petitien~ is that ~4hat bundled ir~'Lo this? h{rauss: Ho, it's not. C'on'r'~,.~., It. s not. This is expanded. i<'rauss' The pet.[tion has a much larger area~ C,';..¥-~'~-ad' S;o your comments are really {er ~hat is existing? k{ I" .{~ LJ. S3 ?:3 t' ~ ~S . Co'nY'act'.. Okay , well this is a ~u~,~o prong deal . Anybody r '"~a~./e a ooncer n ~,~i-~....h 'khos~e 2 1/2 acre fol ks? c,~-.crmu h Is the Hot Counci} really going to let us do somethin9 like ,..~ ..... ~.~ Srasment it? ::lransz~:' bJell if you dra~g a donut he!e around it and dras their attention -L::::~ ;}t, i;'ne ansHer is probably ne. ~f you accomplish the same thing by Cornrn i ss i o n Heet ing ].990 -~ Page 30 .g',..:i-"':'r',,-e.~. ,~, :it son'~.s.'.~,~hat differently and putting in plan text., I'm pretty · b.,,,,xL happens if in-the middle of one of these areas~ let s say '¢..i i ~ .'-',.:-.' r r;i n t I"~ " ....... ' ~-. ' fai Of course o'n a :,:.;,~ of'~e 'F,='sso'n or anoLner ~e have 2 or 3 sys~ ~n,-,8 that I. ~ ~.c' ..... i/2 e.o'r'e ].o'k there should be enough area available for develepmant_, of ~c~,"~,::::.tr:.:-?'," ,::-'~i-.s.{r~fie. l..,:J. ..... l s,c.~,~ion ....... but if ~,n,e~hing, ~ like that should occur ~ ~,Jhat ',sou.1~.:l }.,'oL.'r' pla'r'~ he? To put in holding tanRs? ?{-:-.:,;:..!:~:;:~-:; t. Je've }sad a similar case up on Lake Lucy Road a fei4 months ago I - . .L.. ~ , ,,..,-' ~ ~. ~.~;r~_-.-'~.e ~l-,e're ~.,.~ere ~: homes ~ith ~ailing ~e~er systems and T believe tha+ 'u :. .: .. t .,,,: .:? .:t- r~ Lhem they have about lO acres but due to the location ef the hon'~es a'n<:{ {.'n their viel~ the proximity ef utilities~ they didn't, feel it Nas e::.::p.:ed:[..at,.z'~ ,c,~' fisca]..~y smart te put in another drainfield or even possibl, e o'n o'ne of the hemes to put another drainfield. Se the utilities are in the ? ":' .:. :. ,'2 (1: :~5' :3 C,'~ being expanded do~n LaRe Lucy Road to pick up those tb~o homes. The Net're Cc:,L~ncil did approve that. extension. , . .f t f - ' - I -'i / f ~.: ' ,:.;...:..'~ ,F,...'; .... ~::,"~ut ..... l et' s sav that you had a situation like ,~hat~ tha~,.. ~4oulo ,:-- '., ~:.: .,, ~..~1... c, p :~.'n t'h~ ..... in+'erior of one c,~ these areas. Who's going to stand the ....... ~ .... c, running collector lines© ;<tau. ss: Well frankly it gets very difficult. What you ~ould have is a c';c.cn.~:rio ~,,..~here eno hemeob~ner needs utiIities and nobody else around him oy' her does and it Neuld be very expensive to bring it in because the City · '-oL~'/,.:.'~i.l. ~.;o,../l,:J have a difficult time,,. ~~ ~ .... ~;ng~ it oversomebody that ~4asn'~''.... soi'n{~ to use it and Nasn't going to benefit. Can the Met Counci~ force the issue© . N'r~.,::; ~i'~'ki'n' I can ansser Jim's concerns. Since the subdivision of L. ake I..~,,-"/ 'r{:,.!:;~r~ar,,ds and T~mberHeed, as a condition of the bui~d~ng permits every ..3ir, cole one Of those 2 1/2 acre sites had to have an alternate site for the ~':.~_~i::,';:ic sy's'Lerr~. We had to rope them off in case the first one failed~ '/ou .... ~ a seco'nd one and I have some other concerns about that address tha'L .........,,.,-... rel-t-.~a_..~ to the_ comprehensive plan draft. I tried to tie it together ~,.~:~.L,-~-',~.~;~ c,'..xera:ll plan and specific: concerns-that you have about sepf{c :~>,'s':ems and their..,and aLL that. Is this ~ike just an open discussion h e "r-.?~: ? ,..¢' r:. '~', r a c! '. That's 'the Hay I've been handling it although it ~.~asn't 'rea].~y.,. ....... k,e' ' ,~ to get input really. Th~ Re'/ for n,~ to tell z ¥i"' ':~ I i':..)~';.i .{I'.~-3 ~ ~ . ¥ ':~ LJ.S 1, n~ ~ ~ ..... ~ ' ';:,'ou. 'r. he t'.ruth, the key for me right now is the staff has dome some thi'ngs ov'e'r 'k. he ~as'L mont. h and some o'fi these are ne~ to us. Really the poi. hr is ;.::~'r PlannJ. ng Commission to say hey, ~4e haven't !eoked at that before and ~,.¢e ........... ~. fhem some additiona.~ direction It real~y has not been to (.*.;;'5 i , L. L'J ~; ¥'8 ..... "~ ~- C' iTM ri'! .... 'Fi i ' / '~ ~ .. ,:.} inpu'b but being fha~ you're all here, I'm Ri'nd ef it's kind ,=.,./ .... ~-'.¢~m....,.,.~. .... Nnat yOU re bringing up, I think ~6e~ve gone through, Me are prett .-~. / ,- ......... r. - ' ~ . W 'ye had eorne axperts in talking ~.~;n{.].',s'~- bJJ. th ~.Jhat you're talking aoout e .~ ? .I..a n n i n g C o m rn .i s s i o n H e e 't. £ n g Ha7 ~o', ~990. - Page I T'r-'ic' Ri.'.J!,:;i.'n' I have a ~.Jhole !ist of things that, on the map and Sext t. hat. ..... ' pc:,'nt', in time to L'nterjec~ that so ~ can jus~ talk i~ aL~ out T~ ....... 1Ok of thing~ fhat you haven't heard before and pr ' b].y ,-( 'r ~ c:, ~.,4 ~:~:,,o~.~u. uhat ~ ~,,Jant t.o br&ng out to you~ at~ent~on. c.-.,; :r ..,,,: .... Re..t.ak~_n,g to what in particular© Frkc; Rivk.{n' ldell the text of the... ~-;,:~,:?.-~',:;.~::~' c.an "!:. he bring those to the staff? T .... kc: F.'ivki'n~ h, nd the map and the petition. C,.'.u:,'.-~-,'a:'J' Nc, ll I'm interested in the petition. I don't kno!,~ that I'm real · ~ . ut ~ ~.'nt.~0res'Led tonight i'n the text klhich text. are you talking abo~ ~ [:~'~,c ~,,i', .....n e].] ..... Comprehensive Plan draft text. t. rqa~ E ~Ot/ were gol ~ {rom ~.r~e a~e'nda '' ~ ~ ~ n~ ~o b.~e]oome oommenB~ on the text aha t he ;:~..icn. ~,':~xu t~as my understanding. When does that ".~'n',~-'~:' kJell t. hose are in public hearing formats and unless, again ~e co'nt, rol and I'm not sure ho~,~ to handle Nhat you've got in your material. Tonight Nas real.~y not a night to go through the text.. Tonight k~as t. he 'r',igl",L 'For us as a Planning Commission to hear the additional staff, the ,~I;. I rn covering right now in terms of gettinq d.s familiar b~ith Nhat staff is recomn'iending. ~:n,-.-,in,:~).~s': .... ,. Can't he. ~ake~ those to the staff? Can't he take his comrr~en'Ls to t?",e ,~.~t,~'F'F and tot them consider them and then to the exten,, that the staff cloe:.~n't., acldress them, he can bring them back at a public hearing can't he? E;"io Riv',k~n E b.,~a'nted the public to hear thes:,~ so ~h,,y could comment. Yeah but'. that. has to be done C.nr;"r.:!s,:!: Hy perspective Nould be, rather than just those that are here toT:{.ght, I think other people should be invited. The forum is a public h.zxa'ring for thalz. That is the forum. This is net a public hearing r;;.ght r~o'.,.,. This is really just discussion here Nith staff and Planning c ,o m m .~. s s i o lq . T"r'{ .... Pi,...xki'n' There are sorne things here that Nou!d help you fine tune ',~ ::-.. '~' t h e h e.a 'r i. n g. C.:z;n'~"scl: t':,nd that's why I'm opening it up a little bit. Let us see ~,,!here uJe: go o'n :~.~om:-~ ,of these th.[rigs and maybe I can direct or open up some khings. I'm real interested in the 2 1/2 acre and that's Nhere ~e~re at : ~.~-:'..- nouJ. 2~rn~ did you have any additi, onal comments on the 2 1/2 acre }-"~ c:, ! :~-: s l-' · 4.~.~>' .~.c,.~ ~ ?'90 -. Pa. ge 32 C:;,'.;-~',-a,::l: T',-'ie quest, ion that remains is that we've got. a petition iT1 fror~t of '..~::_: ".- '.-~.:} >. r.::':..~:l, ly v~ant, s I:.o e><pand tha-t. Do we as a Planning Commission want '. :: ',: a -F-F 'I:o ].ook i'nt.o that expansion possibility? ~rni~-~.:.'0g?.: ! wonder if we b~ant t.o do that without there being any plan t.o pi. aL 1:he property. I vJender Wily we'd want te de that.. Nell it's creating a zone and you know I don't mind looking into Usual ly Whel'l ~ Paul? !<tar.las: I just wanted to clarify somet, hing. It's not_ creating a .... ... {'"~. ':::~ ,:..~oil"~g ].s c.-.reat.:ng a potential for future development. The :..:n:-~<::'rlyir~g a'r'ea, I think most of our petition is zoned rural residential is Is. roe let unsesered zoning right neb~. The OoNp P~an corning 'not change that. That won't change unless the property owner requests: ~t be changed. C,:::,:,"~':'sd: Yeal-,~ but still the>' Hill sink up. If we say that this is large i.,r::, '~' 0"~ i'_}'",.q~ c:on',p plain, that's what we want. C,.->',":'r"ac!: Sc, yeah, you're right. It may not be petitioned to be zoned that u~ay bL~i.:, geez~ we're sayin~ we're cemmittin~ that we Hant ~arse ~ets there. i }",ear ~hat you're saying yet en the other hand I have te sink t. hetNe tos.~e?{--'~e-r, lhis is comprehensive plan but it's a~most the same as zoning h...:'.c,:~use ~.,~heever c,H'ns that land can quality for whatever we said ~e wanted ',"~.':~r.:-~. 5o i ~}~e back~ 2 !/2 acres. Basically to assess~ to take another ?~o<::.,:7~ ].ook at 2 1/2 ac:re lot sizes as potenhially for our zoning. I -:ir ~s been pe':'.itiened. I think there are enough peeple~ at least '::. h~: '::.. woL.~].d ].ike it. I think there are some people who wouldn't bu.t Paul nee:! yc, L~ to do an analysis of expanding the 2 1/2 acre from the Lake LUCy ',--'. ': .1; 1", I s 'r'~ d s 't o b r o a d e n e d a r e a. :di!d.:.:::~,-'mut..h: tJould maintaining these 2 172 acre lot. size areas preclude ,:?,'r':'>'one wi'thin th.e area from subdividing? F':'aL:S::';: I had a long talk with the City Attorney about that tocla¥. The ..".,r<'l '~'~<:,.:-~c:.c:-' was ,c.:hanged in 1987 to preclude 2 1/2 acre Zots witln on site :::e.>;er. That. applies in the rural service area so right now the only way '>.,,:.:.',..: .zo:..:l.d gLobal:[vide property there is a gross density of i per i0 acres. hare ~..L]cF Highlands and Timberweed could not happen today. If t. he HUSA !.i'n.:~ i::.~ ex~an,:i.:s~d~ it ~ets fuzzier. ~pparently you have mere latitude oddly .~'nou. sh with the MUS~ line expanding and flexibility frankly te use en site .::~.s~4:~'r. Ne agreed with the Hetre Oounci~ in 1987 to dea~ with the area outside of t. he MU5~ line in that Hay. lNere Has nothing explicitedly aSr'.:Pe,:i to with what happened inside the HUS~ ~ne. :'rio Rivkin: It ~as my L.,.nderstanding when I received the draft plan from .. ..~ ~~ ~ , ~ · v" ,:-:, :...' s'r~'i ,Hr.a'Ft: ..... :I ,.~h~ petition was thai: i~ the MUS~ line ~ere extended conl. d 2 172 acre lots with no service exist within a h!USA boundary and it ~as rny .... ~'r;,:.!,..::::'r-:~:l:a~..,i'n{i that .it oc, uld so ~ orafted the petition arourd that. + Paul is te,L'ling us that it can but the question is, on. e t. he 2 i/2 acre lets ~,~an5.=, to subdivide, ho~4 small an can,. ........ tol¢¢r*te=. ,,. a septic systernO 1:1.'¢-s,~:7.::?:~ N.::::;d hav~ to do u,.en,~ research on c.,'~:~u, lt. s an issue ths, c s not ~s,.:~{...:c'~ aealt b,~ith by the ni~y Areas that have ~ ' ' _.'. ...... ~eve~epeo inside the ~,IU%A .~ :~.'ne ~,a~'..x'e developed ~ith se~4er. .Lm not aware c,¢ any exceptions t..o U'..,-- :i ,:: ..% -'., ',.,' k ]. i~ ' lt. ~4ou. ld be too big of an environmental threat if you. had _. · ..... h~ ,- . In fact, I don't. rnor.e ,:-',ens~t.y ~4ith septic oy.~orno beyond tine 2 ~/2 acre .... nar ....~.~ ~,¢ould be acceptable to even our C~y Counckl that hav~ng th}~* muc':t', 1,~snd ~ith 2 1./2 act;:~ bJith septic ~ould no'h t...~ ~ ~¢ a~ environmental threa~- e~ ~..~ ,~, . I Nant tc, make clear the thrust of +he petition Since ~e ,:::i:',::_::..~]s,.~,~_:: i , there':s been a 1,~ ~ of changes going on a~,,,,~ ~ I guess the o**, of expe..,_~tions I guess that. ! ~,~ant to rnak~ - ' ~,~e' ing to go. ~e ~4a. nt to go ,ahead ,:i:1. .:7 ; .;3 r :E<,::> that }.'OL~ 4noerstan,cl where re go :,..;,¢ ~..,.~a.:'r-_~. . uc have some kind of incentives or guarantees built }.'at o ,.u .. polic;~es t' - ~- ~._ ha,_ for tnos,;¢ t.,.~ho t4ant to keep large ].ets are not I... I ].Lf , p.:~,:.~-~alized by the facto by keeping the land in the natural, state and not. suk;,d~viding. N~e don't ~ant to be forced to sel~ and move on because of -~$i'-(:;{Pd &~ssessments or u.n~,~anted utilities. We ~4a'nt. guarantees that .'if a sept. ic system fails in a ~a'rge ~ot zoned area b~ith no foreseeable hook ,:3, r feas:ibl-s hook LIp t.O sea,for, that that o~ner ~ould have the ri r.:::;p.a~'r it or u. se ,that aAterant~ve s~te that the City a~ek~ed them to have Y'sk. her than {o'¢oed te leave and subdivide in order te pay te bring in a :~};.s~t4.si-- line and .].ike~se force a~ their neighbors to de the same be,cause ;':,.:,?,¢ the.y .... r'e going te get hit Hith all these assessments. Lie ~ant to rid ourse.lyes of so cal].ed pendin8 special assessments on utilities ~,~e don't '.J:{:e n,:::,~,x or ~.~i~l_,~ 'never , R~.u~ in the foreseeable {uture. lhere in el{cc'L,. .... o0.00 an acre assessed on us no~4 for the Lake ~nn Interceptor ........~ :',.~;u '~.: as 9ood a:,¢-- levied because ~4hen k~e buy er sell the property as many p,:;soi-~l.3 have, they put the money in the pending specials in escrob, and .:%.4o~ ;. 0o0 ,. 00:_. .., that ~...;as spent, by Chanhassen basically Mas taken out e{ , . 1'~I ,~. ;::'~r.cuL.atLon locally by the people t.4l~o ob~n these lo~s Z could have ' ~ ''~ '.~:,4 ,:!,4, c,.0o n',o'r'e to ¢~n&~h my house ~4hich would have ~ncxeased ~he value. ,:3;v.~n the ~%'./ rnor,o taxes The Hoxan's could have used their ~2,800.~00 t...~i<;:?n ;~,¢;:'~1:." b'/ t. heir bank to do more pLan~ing. The Coxdell's cou. ld have ,..~:,~..;:,:..~ tr,e.t'r money ~o bake their treeless lot and make more, k ...... ....... o:~a~ ......... .... t>' su,_,.a~,,,'¢.s:.on. Zoning is very important nob~ a~ Ladd ~a~d or zm>...~. ;':,.~:'.:it.~.c,n.s'rs want to stay 'rural xes~c!en~al ox large lo~ residential and the I think this issue is going to keep Roger really busy. ::~'r'f,:.:; 2iv',k.i_n' Nok~ as far as the 'feasibility', :4, e .just k~ant to keep · ..:gs,:?us:sion:3 going on +'his. Ne Ha'hr to sit doHn ~4ith then in discu, ssions ,..:..u: .::':. ~..., l .3 'k ,:1 . , , L-~ i-:;';,-.~L.,:~:s: If I cou. ld interject for a moment.. The special assessment .... '~'~ · '~ .,': :~:.: r err i'nc~ ~.o v~a.s one that ~,~as approved by the City Counci~ over .~ t ~ ce ~ o lhe ;,."..~::'~:3 ago re.!~at,{.ve to the installation of th~ Lake ~nn In~r p.~. r, ~' ' L '>." ',':; a s i. c; x~ ]. ]. 7 'f"r' o 'n t e d{' '~ ,.. ..,~e mo'ney for the construction or our share o-r '.';,l'~ J. '.i M ~.'~ ~- - ,~:: the .~xssessments to be levied against L~ndeve]opeo properties and :-' ,,s~:~ ~ ight~ i.t~s e~60 00 an acre and these have been ! p.:;~,~,:.:~ r~3 :E{p.{~,sl.a~:B. ~t s a trunk charge basically. 8ut the .... ~. , .~. ~n~_lcipat. e Hhat the City Council ..,:.. .... '?.'.:;~.~:'~-'.::'~ .a. so ~.'n terms of over ru]~i, ng that assessment That s :Bometh ' h ~"+' il Hou. ld need t.e deal Hieh and it really doesn~ ::... r~c:.::~ .{I:: ,~o ..... , place 3 years age ~ don't believe ir. has a d~rect bear.Lng F'.'~ ; ?".,...'l.;i.~',' The r:'~ap that you have before you nob.~ does reflect one th..in.g .1-- I .~ ;.{ .. ..... ~: ~.~: t....;snted in the petition and that's l~rge lot zoning but not ~','~-~-..:~.-.:: ':-:.h.;:~:,t ~..~:~;-~-e petitioned, ~ can go over here to sho~ you the petit/oner:~: · :,,~u :,,~,~.n",'~ . he large lot zone. It extends all '~he ~ay to TH 4~ I~ .~. r~'~OYe kl}.N.;2~ ~;~.th this petition ~ could have gotten a lot mere sin ......... - --' f u +' · u:.c.-qec..,f t. hem along TH 41 here but ~hen you talk about ~oresee~!e ~u're x,~.:.~ Nn,.~ R~ar!'k.~3 to subdivide and b~ho doesn't, these are the people ,:~'.;:,: ~iofng all the L,Jay to Hhere se~,~er stops on Lake Lucy ~oad~ the~-'e p~:~op e · ~.:-,- '~'t k,~ ,~ ...... no do not ~.~ant ~n develop ~nto quarter acre 1. ots ... :.1~.E~o ........ ~"~-~t~ i'f'i,on a' ~ ~ ' ee,~elop~ they expressed s_ concern o-F the environment and 'h..he E'. h :~'~ ~:," t.'.~ a '~ 'k. ~-~ ~'~, ' ' ~ , ....... u~ lan,:t t. na'k.~s in these houses. The. are toe steep there lh,ey~ve got a ].et o{ Hetlands. lhey can't subdivide either. They're ......., ,....:. :{saine kind of lot type that k~e in h. ak~ Lucy Highlands are . They may have , . con [..1 OhS here ~arger land areas but they are undevelepable There's 2 ex .... ' . .~ .- -,- .I ,. ,~,n,:i ~:~ , .... , as o~:~ve]..opability is concerned bk~t they in splrit, as lorig ae .... n~y"~-e Irving uhere~ ~ant to stay large lot. This is an area~ and ',-..:e¥~ne:{-}ee~:~h and .lerome Carlson ~ho o~4ns this and thfs a~so ~ant to see large lot "~"esidential. bJe plan to submit the petition to the Hetropolit. an :2.,2L~r~,~l~ E s~rlCe ft has been a~ready submft~d and ~4e don't 0~c:'n',--ad ..... r'c,u're submitting the petition to the Hetropolitan Council? cfi.:-; P,.{',,,kk~'~: Nell ~e're going to copy them. Just give them a copy of the :.'-....'u:~itio'n t.'.o let them kno.~ our feelings but b.,~e don't see that that's maybe .~-~ '--., :x ,.'~lus'~-antee that uCe'l-'e go~l~g te get b~hat ~.,e ~ant but ~e do see eno thing thc'!-:, is pol. nted in the right direction here and that's large let ~'esi~:{ent. ia].. l~rn .just saying as ~,.~e circulated the petition~ theee are the ,::,ei:.:ltion,~_~rs ~,~ho ~ant that designation. The ones that I couldn't get~ ~4ell Rk.?re .:;~re some fence sitters there but basically that's the kind of .{~ ~4e']] ~e~:'. th~.s bu.t t.¢e're b~i~ing te concede if tha,t's the case that d,:-:,'~-,~t sar]t it u'ntil the year 2000 ~4hich is kind e{ ~hat the deal lhi'ngs ~,Jil] quiet do~n for a ~hile and it would give the City and y,q:,:.~rselves some time to be able te assess the environmental impact of rr-..~R".''.E{.'.'..L;l..er devel~oprrients in certain areas se that maybe to plan a little bit het':;..?'~' so that things aren't done in a rush and knee jerk fashion and then yo~.~ 'find out later that you've just polluted your ~4atershed te the hilt. ~,,ant to stu. dy this. I think it's valid {n ~..~,,n.:~. o-f think in my rnind the potentia.l of a large lot z~one, is: Commission Hooting 9cO - PaEie m~, :-:",'"].?. v~'~]..id ~';'~ Cha'nr~d.~:~s~:xn uut ~ need Paul~ you to c:ome back to us and .~..oc:,k ,q i'. ~_ -!' ~,'...'. r ~ ',u '.3 s ' T ,,.u c,,. ~ ]. d b ,s h a p p'./ t. o d o i t b u t I g u e s s I n e e d s o rn e d i r e c t i o n a s t o ..~.. ...... ~., -?"c,u. ~,xsl"~t rn.s ~o bring back~ I mean cIearly you can do thaB r'~o'n-~--c..~'-i~ ~.sah. pro:.-s a'nd cons~ There's some financ~a~ aspects Z th~nk ~"" '~'.-~' 'r',{~ '~;'~-'~.,',~'..~. ~..~c,r'~'--~es me shout b~hat ~,~as just said are there are some cases .... ~..::~ /c., .... could ha',,e goner failure and you're asking for ne, a guaran~-~:~ ,.. ,..he ,on,s th~..ng ~.,~e're not gokng to do is say somebody has ~,~'~' ~a ..:,.,L '.ue , e just going to allos contamination and ~hat have you and t,~at .... '-- ' kind o~ said ~e're not go~ng to, don't ~orce u.s to, t .....i~ ..'.'.. ~,,I r i,e '[i. "/,")LI V e . ,., .., :. .... ~., .t ] ': ..... . ..... ~ nu=in all Lhe quality c,~ '. .:..:.:,,? k ,.:p.. ., ,_..,,a. nk t. he CiLy has an obligation to mai l~.'~..-x ,.n.a'L you. moved .znto that area {or and so ~ see a Lot o~ ~egaz t,,. I see a lot. of problems potentially getting ~hat you ~a'nt beca~se to insure ".::'...c. ~.,~.:;~ re ;r-',r~ir~t:..a/r~ing ,.h,: natural aspects, there are some thzng's fha'~ ~,4e , ~::.,/~x Lo look at. hie'we tried to do 2 ~/2 acre~ before in ~.hz~' .... T ~,..,~SS involved in that and at the end the ,,eLghbors didn't t.~hen ~'hey ,~':~ i'...' .,- ~ ' " ~ s..~',,.~ ~,:haL it entailed and the fact that. they couldn't subdivide anymo're~ ~..-,'-....... ,--,'=.~., theJn pul. led .....ouL'. That's the other thLng that's goLng ,to have to ..-'up~..~.::P.. If ~,~ decide to do this, and aga}~n l'm just speak~.ng for mysel. i.. ~ ~, ~ ~ . ~.~, '~-L.g,~. r~o~.,.,~. Only for- rnysel~ but there are certainly financLaL implicat,o c:,-? that. The fut. ure potential. It ~.,~ould be in my mind~ it Nould be large ].oi-- x{<:,ning and nobody could subd/vLde period untL1 you changed the zoning a 'n d 'h '- ,.,.:.yrefore that has some impact on neighbors on your petition It maw seen', nic':,:z~ to keep the green but krhen you saw you cannot subozvLde, there s~'e -F:~'na'nc.J. al irr~plications and personally I'm all for ~hat. you're talking ~-~booL but there's a ~hole Lot of stuff in the kJay of gettkng you there ~.,.~e :::~.~n kind of k~O'rk ~wit. h you on that and see ~ha't x~e can do. I feel t, .,.. right u..:~'~i ~{;/'~,..~ .et~-3in ~'rn speaking just for myse , ...... ,'I'I :-',~'F, ingt. on The Ciuy of Orono has large lot areas and it ~orks our '..'...~'.// 'el. ce as faT- as it's a very prime area and hi.gh va,_u~. Very .... ~.~ ...... ~ . ,-.'Fon'~ a'n appraisal standpoint, people look {c,r somethino lzke ha Tha!.-.':e kind of ~,~hat the`./ k.~ant. It's something that Chanhassen is known To-F. You don't cc, me here because they...buildings. They come here ~.~ecause it'..'-: :sn'ta.E]. tok.,in and it has a rura~ nature and Lt's more small ~ets~ ~oek ' ~ ~ up in Lake Lucy and ho~ {asr they gobbled v.~:.~:y..?: :,.s the p~ace [ ALve .in, TLmberNoed. They rea~7 ~sen~ f'~ e c ~.:, 'r-;,c, rn i c s t a 'n d p o i n t. ....... ~e..:31- bdhau you're say~T]g and ?."~a'~";,." r-,S"r-r~r~E!t, or~ There's real].y a market for ~hem ,~ ....... ~-r.c~.(.~ There really is. !."',;:¢'r-'y' }..',arri.'ngto'n: Yon could be another Orono. 'J' ~U.t yOLJ. really end up ~ith like Ni'Lh the problems :~i ':l:, r'! 't- S. k~ .- ' .... ,._ g,,~. noN. As ~4e expand you end up b~ith some problems because ...-c. rnL'~:..~niLies aren't, it's more d~f{Lcu~t to dea~ Nit. h some e¢ these 1. argo 1 _{.~ ...... I I~.s t :c,~...:-:: .{'~ ~<~ ~..~u-Ffer sno all those things They're unique situations ~- 1.~.,nfl{..ng Commission Heetinc~.. ,,s?-' ~.~:,~~, ge0 Pa8~,,. 36 ~ ~ .~:.r people here, you kno~g I spoke for myself ~,re ~.,;e inter? ........ · ;'~'~ ;-,~,~-su. ing th.~s? Should ~e direct staff to take a good look at g. 1. a. rge I ,::.:, t ? :2:::,,,. ac.~ Ne just need you to come back Hne'never Pa. ul and just say ' ~...',~.,.. .... ~',,:-:~ .{.replications a're. I think the ci ~i~ens should knob~ too the c~..;.~.~.,.~:.-~:i 'r'eair~ ~-'/pe c:,f stuff. As you get into large lots. l'.t,, Nha'k. can happen b,lhat can't The ~80 foot rul.-'~, or ~.'~--'~',~-'"'" ~' '. :' ..': '~,'. i "...,' '. '~ ' · · , - ~' ' ' ~ ...... ~ ..... ~-',:. '~?~. !~ you"r'e, i-F t. his did go in like on Lake Lucy Road there~ ~.,~e dor~'t ~- ,,~ ..... ~.,,~:-..-.,n.l.~x..,.~ on ~.h~ south b~ho den~t have subdlvideab!e lets~ are they goir~8 · " :. ~'~,.'~. '~o'~-"ce,i to hook up ~ ~" '~ because their house happens to be closer ~ 'L.a'x..~ l....t.~-}.. ~.,.c,~..---' and they've got a functioning septic ~system? ~.Y~, ..... '~ ,kind ~..~,,-F, a~.~' s,:3, ~Jhere e~,J~opment ends and b~i~dern~e~- ..... begirls~ yok~'ve got to dra~..,,~ u.,'~.,,, ~.;n.:~-~ ?'~ome',,~here and that's ~,~here it See the implications o'~ some of the things that yoke're going to ?hc:,L~{ih i.s if I don't see se,mebedy ~ganting this, more than likely He rnay :[. l'-~ ,:'u ]. u d .? it in the ].argo lot area. .~ thi¥',,k there's a '[inancia]~ taking ~,.qho de'n't i.gan'h the large lots and they're going te be in he're aga.~nst ~ahat you Nant. Nivl<in' Well the petition is not a'n all or nothing p'ropositi, or~ It simp]y: actually right nob~ it's simply came out to be a catalb.,s~,.. for ,._~'l.:::.c~..,ss:ic,'n ane get p~ople moving and t. hat'~ ~,~hat's happening Conrad.'. You've got us going. Ne're respondi, ng to that:. There b~,as a ,:i:. ~.l t. ~ h {P r {-!: . I ,,~as just interested I'm fairly familiar ~ith 0rono ano sorne F~rob~ern:~ that they had b~ith servicing their...because of their large ,r~e',/eloprnents. It'd be interesting te knees ~hat kind ef taxes 'k.'~-~at are generated by ~arge ~ot compared to small ~ot and Hhat ~ ~.tz more and can't do for the City ~ a ~hole because -~he~ O~''', ks ~-~ 1. 16~. I~' -- S '[~ ] k ':~ ti' subdivision. It iS a single family out there t. hat's a a,:l:¥'e a'r',d it's their kids and it's their streets and it's their and so forth and so on so from an o~ner standpoint within the like ?.o k'nok~ he~4 large let developments carry their ebon portion ins o'n from that respect. , T'I~,,.,., [dell from an appraisal standpoint I 'm an appraiser sP.,d ' ': "-] ~ 2' ~ I d I '~" ' .... ~ 1. it'. ,..~.suaL1} tends to be ~orth 2 3 or 4 times the value and somet. es~',ecial, ly in l~.ke in Orono. usually the case but ~hat's not the case .~.n Chanhas~en ~ ~ ...... ..... '/ ,--,.~.-,. r:~T~qto'r~ Right h',uc T mean a lot of your Chanhas~en houses ]..et. :~:-:a';..' ~1-~ o!'~ like sou. th o'? Carver Beach Road and east. of, b,~hat is it OR ~.,!--¢,,.- I ,x. ': ?70 - Pa.c3e 37 .... r,s...;,.~ a lot of nice little splits and split enJ~'r.~es a'nd s~.~~t' 'i~',_;,'.-'..-":'2 ar~,:;l ;..r'-,.sFe are a lot of these }louses that are up and worth 2 1./e to 3 .'no',-.:c !"ime'.~: t'ne ........ al. us of those nice houses and they're picking up the t. ab~ C'c:,ri~'8. d' b.iel], b~,s'll take a look at that. I think that's one ,of the thi. ngs h ,: ) I. j 1 C~ ,~ u. '.,. :-'~-~,.~t '....;~:~: :~.:: ~., k'nov~. I sues® personally if somebody moved c,u'~ he's=, and ',,...a. nts to ~::.'v'e on a la'r'ge lot, boy I tell you, that's ~.,~hy you moved out I.~ . . .. ~ i(l:: ; ,.t: the people in Pheasant Hills, a lot O{ t..heN~ He~ve use'Fi about that Carri. co Addition there and He brOL.~i'l~. L. Ill:~ [.J[3 k. hey ~,~ould sign a petition just because they t. hin~ ,_.,,e ].arge are amenities to seLL for the values of ~'~' ' ...... ' 6*'-een~ood Shores expected the same thing so ~he surroundi.'nc~ - ~ . . , ~.... {' I.ll' 'r ~ ': ~{: : :~ ' i~ ' 's {~oJng to be trouble ~,~ith the people that you ~qan't in this -- .. "'~{n,:i out ~naL the'/ can t subdivide. They re going to be r~ot.':"~}ng p'FeF.~esitien. This is a catalyst and i-F all. ~ae can get cut of {.:3 ]..x~'~':.':jo ].ct.. xoni'n~ k~lit, h some guarantees {er the {uture, that may be fine.. :'~'!<~>.? P:i~.-.i~!ghL. ~'ve got a couple ether basic questions. %i..--i.c: :-qi,./k~.n: ~,,~;out e'n~/ironmenta! impact on the plan and whether or not.~ ~_ ,~ .~ 1 the entire plan? ' R c, ~:' "r d ~'r~.c: F<ivkin' Uell according to the Environmental Oua!ity P, ev].e~,.o ~,. l. ~ ~,~ ...... ;:s ,con'~,,:t~,rehensive plan qualifies as a project requiring an it.. :~:,ts h, efore it goes to Council or bghen it goes to the Cc.,:..;nc:i.] ,:st ~..~hgt. eve'r ._ut before it gets accepted and voted ~n and concr~,t .... it_ is a F, roce:{~:s th,st requires one t:,o,_ farniLLsr ~ith that : I (: O ~] Il {] respond to that Mr. Rivkin ].s ~4rong on that i.~'sue Th.:!-r'.:::,:':~-~ p'robab].¥ been about 400 ceNprehensive p~ans approved in the C:~t'{es s:i'nc.e 1977. blot a one of them has an EAH or an ElS. No~ that ' : I ' ' i'IC-Jt.. R.~ issNes that could be raised are u./-,valid ........ -~. - s~. You're getting that~ :..~, r:]an ].uself is e~ study ef Nhat those i~eues are. ~ ,-: ..... :t~; ~,on.~:.:L th.s comprehensive plan ;s T'nat's 8 surprising statement on your part. If you have some. that 14e shou.!d be a~lare el, e~h¥ don't you. talk te staff about t. hink they're the enos that have te meet. the State requirements rea].l.y responding to Metropolitan Council's requ~rements so ss :.,::.;~ ~"nc,~,,,: ~.,~e'¥'e real]..y s~¢nsi, tive to envirc~nmenta! issues here. You're t'.:',' ,.::',"~i to .son'~e folks that aren't sensitive te that so ~Je're trying to .:-~-.,.-.....~ ;.q.--l, ~... ~..~ ~,:.~:::::~.:: j..~::..:.-~.~.:,.~..:, .~o l'm 'not sure ~he~e, Mou're going with that but.., if ' ' ~he staff and ~hey can ],oo~, st'.. o '._ rfi ,.s ~ ,~ '~ · · ':,. ,:) '.. ; v.?:: 9ot':. ¢..3 .~ stuff Z d sure hand it ~o :.n,:....-,~-~.,~.,"~ :{:so ',.;.s of what it. mean~ Anything else? U.-i,';' Cl.{v'k. inr ':'esi:, ~ want to commend, i read the comprehensive p!.an o',...,:~.-,' ,;'.'h,:! i Nant t.o commend tile Planning department for addressing such e'nv.;~-,c:,n,'nel'-~i:a]..~y sensitive cerements in there and mest ef it sounds .-.:o.:';.r:l ,",'n,--! i SLlst hope c!own the road that the actiens match the se'r'ds. I :.,.~,:-..,..._l<' ..~.ugt.,.,:est sorne specific goals and pelicies relating to envirenmenta]. /: :-...i:.:_...st~.,.::.'~-',.'.hal:. I have in here and I ,~anted te hepefu. 11y ge over them ':~ ':' :",-: ;; !l }'", t . 'l'.:'.:--,';-ad' L.,.,'e ].. ]. could you, seriously what ~orks really good fo}- us is tc, ,set :..;:.:s c.:::,s'~r~ents in advance so ~e can look at them and see what t. hey are on ~ the po of ciett, ing your comments to staff so staff co ..~ · ~ I .... ~_ .1..I. - - , . .:. . -, :::': t.':' .,_ , ...... ,:,:,_.'~.~ to us Then we can react having thought abou. t it as in any · ' aooL, t .cc,nothing that not really, you could ta]. ',..:,~..;t 'r.~:.a].l'?-' iL's hard to react on the spot so i'd really i.f you cou.~d pu.'L "'he rims, and I appreciate you going through that. I think that's just ,-,;..~.t:-::tar:.::!~'n.:.~ th.at you. ~;ou. Ld but the best forum for doing that and l ~ I, _ :l,'x.~',-/~'r'~'t:e~.:¢ ,.~'~¢y re not ¢~oi. ng¢. to be dropped. He will reao them x.~ut i ;..ou. ~.:,...sl f a copy o{ what you've got, st. afC can get that ou~- in ~',-; ,::, ,--,act-'c~- and kde can 'rev{e~4 it and it's a lot better format for · · 4 '1 ' ;'"; '~ :::'.~::uq'.:'.s: In faa. mess to Eric, he revisited the earlier draft, of the Natu. ra] 7.:.~:a;-'.:ur.::-~s :-:!-;e,::_.i:.iol-~. You did not have the updated one. Some of the stuff "'h4:.;?.'?~; in there came cut ef our discussiens and seine other things that Here gc:, -;. r, {) on. In fact., Mh7 den't I ~ust g~ve you a fair cepy ef that so you <:af-~ see !she update. ,,.. O O ri - .-' .... . "'~'~*' i rig Faove ~. ., f: ..:.. ',-'~ '," ,:., ,:. ~ Buu i 'really, I'm trying t.o make ~his ,,,.~.~ .... , .. :.:. t,:::. ,:~.,.scou. nf the energy you put ~.n Not at al~ ~ t~ot. al. ly appreci. ' ..~..~,. time. Lle re not the wisest people in the world as some people can .~:.:'. , '-.; :r, 'T I- t.,,.,? or ~e]_.ieve but we really like that kind of input. That ' s just ",? r '," i f i c. n-..,_: ~ '"'.,... ~'"".,'J"i ~',-.,.,_ .. .,. I'].l try uo get a k~rit, ten summary and.~ before the June ;q,'J:- .... ~/"~gi a!-~d I .guess I would expect that since, you said that. oeopl, e nort'r"~ · h,~.,c,, arbitrarily I guess had to split it up someho~J so ~,;hat ';'...'", :5 ~,! :}'{:::1: [,.iS ~ -J ' ' ' . n~;d more ~s::~..¢.~;,::~ above TH 5 on the 6th and be~o~,~ TH 5 at the 20th. if we .o.--, r,~ee~'in<Ss, u. Je'll schedule those at the July meeti'ngs but for no~ ,that. seerned ...., o~:~ ~.;~,;,.. way to kick off the process ~,.i'r~: Is someone from this commission going to be at the Eaga~: To4'n 'r{:~.!.]. i-omoYYow where they're discussing this cutting edge erdinance about khe :,',.:c~!,4er uti!ity fund that's geing to be created fer utility bills to ¢u'ncJ I/' ,,.. , · I I,-.~ · ~ :..: .:, ',...~ ::: ::.!: ,,-..~,.::; re: fu.L].y aware of the Eagan prog, arn and have been given ::. <:. '- h.:? ~ i t.";x C o u n c: i 1 . :.~.:.: , .... c-. 'that. again C, tev~ was volunteering to go that'e ~Jhy I dirln'~t ~ ..... i':. -. .::~ ,. ~ ::-.:: ::: ~,~:.:-',/{.--. eon following. There's a number of communities . R, r~ s. t ,::.::~:'~..'~ :::t..,::>'~'~n ~.~.,a'!:er utility d~stricts, Eagan being one of them " - .... :-- dif ~.<..:,i:;.s: hat.' ferent is that they nave a strong Mae~r qual.ity eme' , i~ _ ' ~, ~ ~ i I,. ~ i ~ ~. · :.~:.~ ~ ............. ~,,,.: ::~ aware of ~nat they're doing. Our engineer is calking to · :'h.:::,' :~:~.'ng,n.~er. We're getting materials {c, rwarded from them s,~: Ne re 'i'.: : :,," :. 'n:: them to the City Cou. nci~ for consideration of the ~ .... :..;:'.'~.]..~tLl:," p"Fo~irarfl ,_nat we ~.ga. nt to embark :2 :':, n '~" .e: ,:.', Oksy. t,.lna.: else on our agenda did you cob'ere ::::::::::::::::::::: : t.h.i'nk we're clo:n to the 8luff Creek trail corridor. ........... ,. ~ k.,,.:,.t.., one ~,.~e had no comments ': '1': ' :: : ., ? : :.: ~ :-',nd the park deletions up around Lake Lucy and TH 4.1 ,,~hich I t. hi'nk are ..~tatements of fact the ~ay things are. ~,-:.n"rad' '.lb, at. els;e? Anything else on what. Paul presented? A'nythin.q? ,, / I_~ ..I ,,.'.'~ :-',: ,: .. o,:.', '>' e ~ '.:: e. ~,..~ h o h a s b e e n ~,: i t h u s ? ......... in~jton: if you did move the HL.JSA line ~ould we also '~-,av~ ~ ~ ,:::~ '(' '?" r'~ <~ '~ '}- . - - ' ........ .: ,::,:::-:::..,:..,.'.:-:: ':,:'.,~..;~ 'L:,.'ng ~:t well aria a ~ater to~er and that kind of sJ_uff. Hgx,',:: ~,..:~.., o,:~.::',~., about where you're going to put the wells i'n to do tNose :-, [ . i ~12:.:., ; Yes ,,~:: have. Th,~ element is going to come to K',-'::u::~s' :4e31 :..,le':'o<.~ kind of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If :,;e , . , ,4 f o':" .:::,.-... ::-: .? i-,::, t. n :--~ P 3..:¢ n n i n g C o rn rn i s s .L o n ~ i IV.ha c © rn p 1 e % e d P 1 a n,bJ e r e b 1 a rn e ....... _j.. I ,.~ ~,.~. :"l:~'nSth:ings behind people's backs. Z~ we come to them w~Yh :':t:r].~ ~'n ~-he forrr~stive s~ages, ~e're accused of no~ hav~ng our acY .... ,.-:;:~:~-I:.::':. Z ~ues:; we'~ ~'~-'~ng ~o ~alk a tightrope i'nbet~een -'- ~-, vl-:, d ]..se ~.ho uCants to make a cornmen~'e Al? "i'r'~<~.~:::ir~.~cz T ju~.~t sot {'n on th, e tail end o~r' ~4h, at ~r,c was ~R~},i'nc~ 8.'nc~ -: ........ ' ... oe. uause up ~.n that area there is s~ ~. {.'-.~t ]4~.y. se land o~,,~n~,rs and I think one c,{ the reasons that that land was .I -- o~ dinanc:e ~ouldn' '~ eve'n al~.ow 2 ..."2 acre ].ots~ Furt. hermore ou'~ pre~.nt or ..... ~ 8,:.:'r?~,l,:-:,ts hecanse it~.'s co ~,_~ll 1 in i0. It allows 2 I/2 acre .~lets but ,.ran {13~t: ...... unit per 10 acres. $o if you have 100 8. ore~] YoL~ can ~e{3 1.0 ,;'~:.{~..;""{.,:-;: t.a'r~ks: 8nd possibly the sewer will be coming around that. area~ I ~ I_ i ~ i.?~'.,.,'.-~ it'?~ r~een assessed for b~hen the seb~er is avail, able for tna~% area i'r~ ,o.n.:J th.ese Aa. rge lot su. bdivisions, ~ kno~4 they se~A He~. l~'..2e so].c'. u.,:~x,,~ myself People like t.o live in them but ~e do have to make ....... ~ .:%cpi... ct'Jet than ~' ge 1. ct subdiv{s~ens, b,le've get a 1. et. of ............ 8nd ,~,.~v,'~:~ got to ~ind a place for these yr, ulqg people tc, build ~, ~ ' .~.. L,~, · ~ . i i. ~ .,..,,..:~::.s ~::~'n,:'.{ ~,:,:;.x' axon t Sox. rig to be able to afforo it on a 2 ~72 acre lo*' l ...... I' ; : :I :~ ~;l ' I ' '~I' e.."-.:. V,: e k n o w t. h a t I t h i n k t o n i g h t w h a t y o u h e a r d m e s 8ly¢' ~ TM~]::~ " ' .... ]0'::'':'I ...... ' ' That's ~hat we've got t.c, o'. ~ " - ........ I~'i k this is .going to influence Hhether ~e have enough ].an,:~ or -~:.]~_k~ e: ~i~o:'r'~erai3i. or~s but we just have te take a look at it. I think t, -- ~ ;:' ight. ;.,Jay i:.o fly on that ~nything else .... :' ] I} ' ;%,2. ffi,'.~thilqg th8~- ~l said, the 2 1/2 acre ].ot and tn~; I in i0 · :'~.';'~'p.¥:i{";/. ,If this was within the HU$~ line you would'n~t have t. he i i'0 i0 ,~'. ',:'.:,:', ~. eB'l t4OLL ].d you'~ there but I think there's going to be other I f } ' J:'~l{ 'I j I i :lll ' ]].l ' ll-,~4re are other issues. That kind of development., was not. .{.l l'l: l' (2. i fl)~{ll [ . (:. ' J ~ } ! [ Il.. Fl e Z 0 l] ~ ~ g 0 r d il n a r, c e a n d y o u p r o b a b 1 y h a v e t ~, ' ' '-J}'i-'!a'fl(T:e to correspond Not to belabor the point hue I was · l .:i. ';'i 1. '0 i}:, 0 '"," :..~ - ~ _ ~ * ~ ~-{ ...... _ ..... .. .... 'r,..':..r.: n:;} :~ _.::~:-~ P~anning Oommiesion had any feedback on the school. t?.:-x:~:..!.f. *'d like some further direction on that. II { e ( J it' T like the idea of the Lake Ann. ~, guess you bro · p :;::orr~e po~ni]s abon'L the topography and things like that but that to me r ....~. t~ ~ ]. ~I::I.'U".~J'~ n:O¥-"~ l}l:''~ t:'~. Round Lake Park connection than the Arboretum one .... OS es88. ry '..",::,~. ~.~.~an ....... o be next tc, a park and combine even ball{iel ' i.{ nec ij. ll~, i{i, -:ii. llllt llll ,i' {{ l li [i)~.]l.$ Y don't have a problem ~kth it being against a high,aa'/. t.r ~:x ~.. 2 , .J., ~ .. . . ~--,e,"-au:~e c, ther sc:heels have dens that but they're not built so 5~::.;,-..~,:..:.n.:>~',-x~ 'runni..ng after a f~y ba~l out ente TH 5 and .L gu. ess X'd rs ...... '~e::J see - .i L ~:,.~'r'<:~- oecause, you de ;.,o.-.~,,~ residen,.s around schee!®.~, i mean every .. . ~.:-~ ~,::~ .... nero's res.kdents around scnooZs. That seems Like a ,L ! ,~.,,, ........ .. ,.,~ink you're going to have a hock of a time ~ith tnis coil. et:tot · ~.';::.'..':-,~.:.u',; ;i.'J ':/o._~. i:'::'u-t the school there. If ~e do need that colkector.~, ~ think. ..,...~;~. -..,: ,go.ing to c:ompress it one wa}: or another north or south t.o t.l*~:.-, ext..e'nu '-: ~::, r : .,vm.~;:.~ '/ 'r,,'-', f u,'- =~- t...~ s.?: d a s m u c: h i f y o u ' r e t~s o r r _~ e c~ a ~.N o u ~. m a k i n g .~.. 't e... c, o ~ i ... i .~ I ~. . ~ . , .:.:,.~r',.."}". ~. ..:~c2, r~'r kn,obJ t. na.. I agree that a school looks {ndustrial 'k ~' '~ "'--' ::. : "~ ~. '[--r. ~ '~'', '~-', .~ ..... ~,. q,..~ :-::.:..,_ion aboLlt the streef'~ i.s oertain~y troublesome and c:l. F' I .., ( .., {'~ ], ~ ...... rJ ~ , , ,..' F, eop]~ and the ~cheol of{icials den'% mlnd put.%.¢n9 it c,n · ,, ....... 1' ~. : [ ...~ .. ,.. .... ~ "' 't ¼ y problem ~,i~h t. he site {%sell~. It's great :"~::~ ~ . ~ ~:--.: ' 'i 21: .:. ,: ...r O' 'F! ~ ~ 8. k'" e a T1 .... ~.. 0 h ,~ ..... · ~.~ "~ a~",:::,un<.'.! ever':,.'sc:hool like ,Sden ,Orai. rie Hig'-~, School. bu~',~ I don't ~-hink,.. . ..... '~ .... ~ t h ~ ~ ] 'n d 'kbs,. a'n~-~,~':,,:_~'k' .:.'r'~ e distr{c:t'e 8oin~ to ~ant to pay for. that kind CT ~::-:~',=u'..~<.~ ev.?'r'/ sc:hoof that 9ocs up ~n the city~ K'r,:~:..~:::;~; %,./el! b~i. ththe 40 acre park, and again this is a staff to .. ' . ~ aoeut mutual development of recreational. ~.:~.::'}.{ties ~'no the school district clearly ~ants to encourage that. The .... ~4[,e~.n~r or not the community center should be ':':~ ~.~!' ::'~ "' i ,:'),-~ '.,,; ,F~ ~ 'F a ~ c; e d -- t' ,~ '.!,-,~ ] '-~ ....... c~ be ' ' '~ ..... ...... ~::~e may ,~,_. a community center at alt and ~here are ::.{ .1~. ';. c: ..... ~ '~ ' .::, ~',.~:~... are being looked at for ~hat pu.~ cZear.~y a cooperative effort. ;{' ':"~ L.h~? :~chool district ~Jherever it is, recreational {aoilit{es is · '-,',nefhing th.at we"re a11 talk~n8 about.. '- .=,it an area is this that you're planning that the ,schoo~ P, ~ :"F .9 'i'!':r.: ' H O' ':,.'.! L - · -' :i .-- ~-- ',- i ,:::-1: ~.~ ,:.-, u 1. d ~ .1. k,e. t o p u'~" t h e s c h o o 1 o ia ? i-',:'rs,.~::-:::-.-..;' lhe'/'re looking -For 40 acres most of shich ~4ould be open space. ' .... :-i'J '" ~ :-~ ",,' F i e 1 d s . c i_ e: .. ':., :~ ' d,. F) .'. .... ,. . Like ba].Ifields and stuf"F so it Nould be green around there? :~.?.e hob] it L4OLi~d leek l~ke te have the schee~ there and the -v to the south c,f i~ See ho~g ~h~t ~ould ~o'rk .-' , ........prett'/ r,oll~n9 land tn_.re for bal!fi.e!ds? :...,, :{~..~:x.s.-. Tn.--., .,.and there is somewhat rolling but there e not. in.q en .... 11 :-.... :{x].?~o got valleys in terms of nebs. It b~ou~d take f~atteni, ng to ...... ' 1'-he-v~: or anything else for t_.ha~ matter but the grades do'n~t ,::.~j. gF:~.c:u~ '~- ~.. n'~:i.l, y'ou. get do~Jn to the creek ~h~ch they perceive to be %.he :-.:, .:.:,: ~..~ ~:~ ~ o t ~ ~.~ S O h o o I s; i t e . !.,:j. i.-~.-, , - _ ~ , ..... ,..,,:-~'rmuk. h T think the school wo',,ld work either on the nc,~th o'r sc.,,~th ?:.~ .' .... ~_ ~-~ n . ...... :,: ,,-, ..... The idea o'f putting a school on the north s~de of TH 5 ~..,~ ~.,~s:t- side of Lake Ann and perhaps combining it ~i~.h th~ p~xrk ano i., :...,.:~;~-::n',.~n:~~-',, ,~--~nte~' I think {s pretty attractive but as you pointed out, ~:c';-so.:p"raF:,hy isn"t all that great so %.here ~ould be something t.o overcoNe i a~].y ce some additional land r~xpense incurred {n go{-nx~ o'r"~ ~,uec, the boat on the 't'.. ~:.:, t ~ ..... ~...:u. nort. h side of TH 5. I guess ~e really mi~-' . , ~ ......c T:~n~.'.,-~'..i;~:.-v :-....::.. ~ar a's that site for a school, it's el .... ~r ..... nau. · ;:::c:{;~..3 t.o h.e 'res.{.dential up to the h~gh~ay and it sheuldn't be. Then yeu · -'~ ::::: :., ':::",:.:.,.~"r-'.::::.:z.'IF, ~,,~lqat else can you do in there and one of %.he plans 1.,;e looked ~-'.. ~,~,~::.:: to put off,ce or ~ndustrial ~n there and ~ think .,,u.:{:.~-..~- ]~o,::;king for something that. would be a little less intensive that! P ]./-;.' n n ~ n g C. c, rn m .[ s s i. o n H e e'lz i. n g .. -.~:.,,,., -~ Page 4.2 .:.:: f -i: -,' ,.:.- .,.':, .~.?., 'n,-'-.' ,' r~o ._.. s t 'r J. a 1. a n d :t t s e e rn s t o m e a s c h o o I ....... k i n d o f ~ i ts ~.~ t. i ,a'.::. '~ ..... ~" ~ :c:~..~ ...... ~sed to ~e~' ~he ob~ecY~ons f~orn the TL,' ~' ' p ,noerNooo e,.,p ].e , r~ : ~ .::~ TI ~,.. ]. '/ ~..., t .... ._ ~ grit nd i'~ ~-~ 'n~<~ or at. 1.~.,...~' -~r'ron'i %he ~ or 2 that e al ..... ked toni ' a ,~ seems~ to me -'-~. ........ . ..... },x ..{:z les::a j.n~r,.::.~,,..~,_,.~.., use It's net used a~l.~ during the day, er it's ¥,c,t,, '{d ~ L" .~:: :5:.l~ ~ ........ ~ . ~ ~ . ,. ~.::~n~ ::s,:.'~ll~et..nJ. ng in terms of a nice bu.f{er ~t doesnt change the --'"':.,:'r's,":t'er ~"c:,o rnuc:h bet.~,~een them and TH 5. I think it !ooks sery re · ~-~"..",~ ,nat. sre.a. Z don't kno~ k,~hat, Z guess as .~ sit and l~sten to , ..... ":-:,:'~,rr,:::.~.~'~L.s that: Ne're rnaHe.., by people from Timberwood I wonder if they~ v..:[~.?-'.-: 'i.','_. ,c:('~me:s ~..~rne for the public hearzng, .~ sure don't ~,~an~ to h~:~a.r 't'or'~{..c.!hc ,:.:.~.~,:.c,~..~s,:P Z don't 'no~ ~f the 1 cT 2 Nbc talked heTe ate -~ ::,~-.-.:.~.e~'~t,~;~.{',.~e o'F the ~hole gToup bu~ [ suTe NoN.Id 1Lke ~o kno~,.~ t4hat they ,~..jC:,L~ I~-I ~ ~ t. ........ ...~-: uc, s~ec in theTe as opposed Lo so Z hope t. hey'11 come t.o ,' aD ~ hat they want to see in there. ~ ...... ,c:,]ic: i~,:.-ear~ng p~epared to ta.~k ' ou.~ w :2 ..- :. ':- ~ .r ~--. ,. '.t ' I'm sure t'.hey ~.,~a'nt residential. It's pretty clear. .:.,,,,-,, n.::ic:._ ' ,~ut '~"he¥~.. don't want t.o live next to a col.Lector str-'~'t '...~r.,'nt ~".".' .... le to .lise on the highway · ' eno that makes no sense to me ~,.. ~..:, i:,::.;, t.n.~ sa. rn.s reasons tnat they don't ~ant to base a collector street. . ~.. ~ .... , ~ .. ~,' ..., , ..... ~.:.;,:.~.f.:,-t'?',~-~,i'r' nei. ghborhood~ ~,:hy ~ould they think someone ~ouid ~a'nt ~'-~'- i. I... ' I_ i ~ i '~',,::':,.. "..-c:. s. ~iSi'~,,~. a'/. That Z oc) n t understano. .... ' ......... oo~ 494 and they're all over. i ':: ..i '~' './ "o r 'I" .L ~ (:~ .. O 'ri ~ C, ' F.:~-.?:i.,:."...::,nt' You. don't have to go very far t.o get to the highway.~.. T- .'~: ~':', :i. 'r~{ ~.:.-': ' r2, ':- o n c o 11 e t. O r s t r e e t s . t,'~,:~-,-'..,.' !-l:-~r'~-...ung,_on~ '~ : They're less offensive. A highway' 's less o'Ffens....ive .... ,:,-r~:;'~.i.-~,:-_-!::-;' I t. hi'r~k ~hen you buy a house and you don't, buy all the la. no ,:~'..~.:,',.:r~d you~ ~ don't kno~a ~hat you th~nk is going to happen to .... ::t.: -,- v .::, ~.~ 'n o i 'n g I a r~a o r ~,~ h a't. m a k e s y o u t h i n k t h a t you c a n c o n t.r o I ~,~ h a ~.. h a p .,_ ~ .. .~. '- ~.~n('l This is a process that allows everybody {npLtt bu.t we've '~ .' ;, '. : l,~, .- .l ....... - !'.: c c':. ;q ..-:; ~ITM~. l.,;~.Lh a plan. If ,4-~, ~ !oek. at that. piece o'f property, I. n a t s i t e :-'.cn't. s,::'¢e .:~n'),' reasonable ebjecti, en to a schoe~ on t' - , .i... ' ' I ' '~ .............. Hy ~aame is Mark Foster and I am a re~ide'nt o-F Ti. mber~ooc! '. :~.. ! ( ~1' ~x; I. ~.3 Y' ' 7~:.~.:::s:::::~ i agree with some of the T/mber~ood residents that base spoken '....~.'~-~:.. ~..~l"~;;;~t the school does right there is effectively cut off any furt}-~er -- ~ ,:Jevelopmen~- arou. nd Timberwood. ~ think that. ski, ~ -F h '-.c: ':' ~ .:;_'..'s ,,~ ~... i :-~ x. ~ ' ,]Q O, t e :'c.:,~',";+' u.~e ~..,.~ere maki. ng. I think we all agree with that :l'.-:::,nr.-c~c~~ gui; I t.h.i..nk that's real interesting. I'll take you up on that. ~'- ::~-:.;: u: ;-,',,'.:. ':i.!-'- ' ......... ,~ to me school ].s community. School is : ' ': "~ n nd you tend to like to cluster, have a schoot ,cl.o,.~,:~: ~'--c:, ; r; ,: :::., :. d:CiiTiiTILI. ~ 'lly a ........ ....... hc, od so Z don't unde~sta'nd that 4.; .': ,::~ i (}: ~ :~., ~., r ~ !.!.:::','!, r',:.'~?,~t--.~:~-' t,.JJ~-Lh that collector street the way you have it, you're nc:,t ~:i..:'-.i:"~?:: t'.~::, ,:~:.~'?. the residential devetoprn~n~ on the south s~de~ .....r ' ' :' i "' ':90 ~' l':q., tO. Re,,_. I'm not SLir~.~ tha% you 'T~.., going to ~xcnzeve~ ' '~-',..ni8 u. .,..~ '- ;[..,¢ ,,,.~::,~"-,. ,.-., '.,;'- si:.-: }..1. ~'ve t;?o1'" fo press you on the school issue School is commt~nif .... ' ~ ~ · ,... ,7 C..:r',...'.'.,ol. ~:~; ne.{s ~.,orhood. School. is pride. School is a~] ~.r~oee good .:.ning:c:x ,':.,':"~'r,..:.,.~ N,:.::].] X t. hi~k ,~,¢e can take a look ay lt. You knob~... "'~.-.',-',' :~o.st'.e'rTt_. seems like you pinned i~ risnt there .:::. ,.-.:, ,- , .r .:~. ,. :', ': ? (-.h':;.nl< She school board or the people came out and took a look at ;-~.'...,,,"; ::.:.;t.e.:~-; .:-:¢nc~ there ara others and Z think ~e can identify several sites i-.;....,,~-L ,;.r,:? F, ot.a-'nt.(al. And just because we puts an. asterick someplace 'righ'L :':...,~... ,::.:,c, esn',, mean .anytlning. ~hey can select a site. A scnoo.l can go int. o ....... ' ~hboxhood. Xt ~s a }ega} pe'rm&'t~ed use in anYh,~ . ~ ,.:.':'~t.J.~: nei~hb,orhood We're just t~ying to get in f~ont of t :;:i,;.}'~n~'ng p'r'oc~::-ss s. little bit and say k~ha~ ate the potent, ials so there ere i:,'~-'c.h.abl7 30 sites that could be looked at and they've looked a% some right; 'F: "'.~ P; . Does the City' pick the sites 'For the school district !-:;-r;c;~..;ss" UJ.'L.ima'Lely it.'s the school district's choice. T'ne.process. ~.~'s one t.,.:'.-~.:~'.~ ..... t ...... l,',!e ~ ¥'.8 'l'.r i ~ ~' . ~.,:_~ to cooperate with them and hopeful]y identify some c;' L.' 2 - "' ....... ~.,J k in 'Lhe mLltual interest The school district is not, ....... hi.~ is 14here they're going to go. 5yen .,, ~.~e :".',.-~ s.~,,,'¢- it to them, them can't commit, t.o doing that until theT' actually ... 'ha .,.~ .... ,-,]. They did say nouever If ~e gave t' .~,..~ :;,.:.;:~ .~.., r;¢ct, or ~-hey .... ~4ould cons~dex But no, ~t's a long p~ ..... c,,..e,;.~.~'~-. The ...... ~,:~¢~¢s not have the school funded. They kno~ Envy nav~. a -¢¢~')-~- c, ne. Tt.'s not pxograrnmed and ~hexe's a long ~4ay to :..::;,:',.r'~>,..:. .,.:~ .uo,cating a scn,.ool, again going back to ~hat I just said, 4o'n't 1~'--- t. ' ' , ;.,::_. t:.o pu schools zn the TTinge Again, zt ki ~ ¢ defeats acj,s.i,~ m-/ F'...':'t-sons~ opLnLon o'F b,~ha~ a schoo~ should be and a schoo~ should be .:?~;,.':..::).r;.r'>ing 1oc. a~ poopS.~ Zf some k~ds can ao%ually even ~4al k 'Lo school , ~. ..... L -~ . ~ .... 0 t; ] e ~ 0 0 rrl rri e ~ t S 2 .L ~ ri'! e ~ ~ k i 'n ..".: I--.,;.,~, :.~ ;'-' ..... n nearer 'bhan something eJ..~,e bu.t any -" - ......... ....~.; {~ , , ..:.. · .: , ~..; : E~ .~i 1,..i. "/ .... r".,:,;-,.'.t:,'j~ ..... ~; ,';"'r'y' I'm also a Timber~4ood lot. oHner. My *,~-ome is Sharon .~...: i c~.',rrei-,""J_y ].~ve in blinnetonka near a school and I love it. · : .u., ¢.,-"; ...... ::. ',- k :!'. $ 'r' e t. h e r e . T h e k i d s a r e p 1 a y i r, g. N ¢,w I ~4 a s a g a z n s t. ~- ....... : .,, ' tn.. idea of residential but .~. eve~-i · 'h.:-:: i-~'" ~ ...... ~.,e/~.., c;~.L.l..e} ef having a schoel because yeu have all suNmer lc:,ng '.;..~:;..":-o. ~;~n.lo}..'i.'ng those 'oal.,..] par ks b~here %here~e ne kios'- there. Yeu're , " ~ ,L1 green so you don't have to look at a coNmercia.,. :;::':'r{..;?~-,{; ]of .............. ~iLh a cemrnercia~ elf ice building or somehob~ since Chat ',"~,-':.t'. h.,.c ,.p t.c, our st. andards of what ~Je would like ~.o s~e 9o there~ ~:.'x.:'-l~',.ii'~ dc.~n:sj..t';x hoL.isi'r'~9 t. hat they ~ere speaking of. I jus't.. ~lar~ted t.o let · :,'c:u I:.- -.-, :'.:,',.,.~ 'i:. h,::.. -L {:here are other T.f~rnber~ood ob~ner's ~,~ho do prornote and ~::'i.,- ...... ~ .... "f..'-;..:,,.::~.~. n,~'u it is a very gooo plan and eo I just ,~anted to ]e : .,.:-'~ u..: ".:. 5.::~ !:. t. h a t ~ s h c., b~ b,~ e f e e i . T In a n k s. .~ -. ,.. hobo,dy t~aa t. irne uo x~ ...... just like to clarify one thing, We're talking about a ~'igh,~, . .~ re ts. Zk].ng 13~ ~4~ ~5 year oZd k~a '~.~. No ] .................. i.c'~r,e,~,~ o~_ {or teachers, ~Je"r'e not talking a hlgh ~',~'~ ..... ~ . ,s,-,-, C,'{.. J, a rr~iddl, e school? :,::'r:.--:us::?' "r'es~ it's a middle school and I specifically asked if there · .:~-: .~ .:} ?~', f'..:n,,..~ .... ~ s 8. n ,. ~ ~ e },' s s. i d ~ o ~ q.:..::.~.::i,:."le~t' Ok, a"~' tha. t~s a high school then so ,~e~re talking an o~ .... n ~.~.~'Fee'n :.:,"~.:~:'~',:'::~¥'~ ou':'rl:x T. t:.hink it ,~ould be very pleasant to look at given some :'. ..... :D ~. i'iu:.' ~- ~ ]. t,.P:r !q$:t. i V,'.ss . C'.-::. .', ,'...: ,:.'l : It sure seems to us ~ho've looked at issues like this~ it sure ,~ .... ~- ~ ~ . ~" ..-.:~:~.rq::": .:.~ re.~.], good solution to some things versL~S some a..~terantiv~s t~s.~ .... ?',.:':,~:~r~:: c~c, ing.~. +,-',..~ ha',/e '~o,_. deal with ~.,~'ooner or ~later. ~nnette~ o"d.l, you have ~:~ ~'~ y t h i 'n g e ]~ s c ? 0 k a y. ,--...'~.:{~.-',.'-~ .... ~'~ t. hi~' secondary on the map is ,~'Foncje ~ ~' ..~:-,'r'i,._ ~:,} ~. , It s a middle schoo-'.~. ~ ~',:,*.. a :SECO- ' '/ ho'o~m O',-i,:': ~':,~',~'kin Do 7ou ~.a. nt to take breather arid thznk about Lake Lucy R'oa,..; ~",=~"",!.;) .... .,..x,-.~icina.~.~o as a co.~.lect, or? Is that ~hat that black ]..{ne means? k,' 'r- ~.::: ~.;. s :.::-: ' I t i. :?.~ a c o 1 ! e c t o r . .T,~.-',,..',..~kir~' HoH can you have a policy that says that~ I don~"t o'Ffi,:3ial po~i. cy yet but it's an officia~ tra. i~ designated by the for ~ uhink~ there's no side~,.~alk and yet 1~. s goi. ng to F~inne~4.~zx:~ht.~:~. ~egiona~ possibly 3 other~ 2 known parrs and ene ether psr'k. Rte 7eu geing te have kids on bikes and things travereing ~"'th... It's kind of an unsafe situation. """.'r"~'4'.''''''i;C::', love tO have a trail on TH ~01 Seriously~ you see al1 t} .... '" '- I .... ;:,, ]..e T' 01. }' to get to Chanhassen, It's terrific._, ".': '..," 1,6~ lq90 .... Page ,!.5 ~,:,:.:. ':...~:a~.~:.. ,'nx~x,~.,,.x. ...n~re s a ~.,!ay arc, uteri it. He do need pathways to 9eu people f":..:'~ ,:::,'n.~ F',~..':~c'e. "',.o' another. ...... ~ guess '~-he Paxk and Roe has designated ~h.a.~''~. .as .L +, ~ .~ ~ ' '-- Is ~,~ ~hat. ~e .'.'.", ':?:: ';:,,;~.. a ~..'r'ail corri~.~r .... there? . C.c,-~,-.;:..,,::l; T!",(:~ 'fac:t. c,f the matter is on those issues, it's easier to put a ;..:.~-<.:i.i ,::;,n 4 'roa,:t like that than a lot of other neighborhood roads. That'<::.: f]~.~t ~:,~..~s.' ~ ths'l-.'s the ~ay it is and the real question becomes does the .:;.<',f,',m~n.[t),' ux~.~f~.T~t ways t.,o move people around a city on foot or on bicycles: ..:':.t. he'r t.l',~:,'r, c, ut. on a highway and so far the trail system is not a rea} ~<.. 'r c :..,.; :3 ;;.~'nd ~,..~e"r"~ going to be b~g. He"re sma~ ~gh~ nob~ but a few more ':,.'0~,e:rs~ there's .9otng to be a lo~ o'fi folks out here and the problems are !';-".,c fRjvkin' ...resicle'ntial zoning, it. probably is not going to be ._., ... ~.. : i ~ , ~. . ...~ ;'.. ,::.hi.,~,~', ,"~.;,._ ir t..na~ area goes high density, if you can imagine that ' .. t ,. : .... ~.~ uP, e eer~..~i't.y of Kerber Blvd ...... without ~-:dewalko~~ ....... that's ve~y H--~,~.ngerou .:'::'. l'{]';.'ng~;.:l!",u..'kz: ! happened to mention at the,..meeting last night, L; r-,,.'~&~'~'-sta nd that Eden Prairie is getting a bicycle trails a],~ along the the c.:}t~'~ la'qe 'nish~ay 5 and I ~gas wondering if Chanhassen is going to get.. h:{,c.'...'c]..7~ t'i-ail.:%~. They've already got it ~n their hi. gh~a.y plan~ c,r;~'r.~<: .~,;l",st are ~,,.~e doing on that issue~ bJell it's Park and Roe and it."s ::'.:o~':: ,: .... , ,.,,~n,~t is Park and Rec doing on trails, especially along TH 5° ,.,.ut .... ~. I ~.,~.~.~n't aware but 30 Ann is saying that the urazl is .1_ , .~. _1 ,.~ ,. '~ ::-( L. t~ ~J '. ~ ~:-...~ . ...... · : .... 'q I ye had contact with ~ .and they are planning to put in a f-c.,~r:;::'-"'-,:.~n pr.ai'~'-ie ~.,.Jhere they have enough right-of-.~ay ..,,-~,~:.. ,] I ne way out. to TH 417 :-.{/a',..~.:ss' Ll.:ell t. he imp'rovements don't go to TH 41. Right now it's h.:' ~. .tan.? ,:';.ut to the west side of dou~ntown .... the rest of t. hed" '""ng "-he c'~ · is t ~king to C.:'::.n",-.~,:.~ ,.,,~.,.~'?~ t. hank you all for coming tonight. Is there anythJ, ng e]'-::.'~:..'~ · -i- .. ~ i .. _ a- .:. h.: ~.. i'"'~G;r ~'~: ;~. ili0 I..i 0 n to ~0 hom~~ this tree ordinance, :~:,:...~'~',"a.:'.'l' l.hat.'s just for our~ is that for discussion? i-.."rsu:-~::~::- T. di. dn,'t even ,,L-/now how tna~-' ' go~u in there~ · ~',"~'~.i':,..~-.:~: ~. t. ho~..~S:.!ht that tree informatien was very interestin,6~ .'.....-- ~ . ., ::':: ,:51! ,2 ~.,~ t. r~'~D,:le], ord.~lla./loes.