PRC 2008 09 16
CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 16, 2008
Chairman Daniel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Jeff Daniel, Tom Kelly, Glenn Stolar, Scott Wendt, Dan Campion,
and Steve Scharfenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Thor Smith
STAFF PRESENT:
Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; John Stutzman, Recreation Supervisor; Jodi Sarles, Recreation Center Manager;
Susan Bill, Senior Center Coordinator; and Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:Campion moved, Stolar seconded to approve the agenda,
amended to include review of a cell tower proposal at North Lotus Lake Park, and
discussion of the south trail alignment for Lyman Boulevard under Administrative
Reports. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Hoffman: Got one. This is an invitation to the Park and Recreation Commission members from
the Department of Natural Resources and others at the Seminary Fen, signs and natural area
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dedication ceremony. I’ll pass it around but the date is Wednesday, October 1. 2:00. Program
at 2:00. Site tour, interpretative activities at 2:30. The program wraps up at 4:00. This is right
on the property so off of 212 at the old building site. There’s a driveway access there. Program,
the speakers include Mark Polson, the Commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources.
Joe Presinka, Regional Director of Minnesota DNR. David Russ who is a Chaska High School
teacher who with his students has been doing a long term study at the Seminary Fen and it’s
water quality and it’s habitat. And then Hannah Texler who is an ecologist with the Minnesota
DNR. The Carver Seminary Fen is one of the rarest types of wetlands in the state. The
calcareous fen. Fed by cold alkaline ground water that’s poor in oxygen but rich in minerals.
Most plants couldn’t survive there. Few can’t live anywhere else. Is long a priority for
conservation. 73 acres of the Seminary Fen complex were protected as a State scientific and
natural area early this year. Please join us to celebrate this major addition to Minnesota natural
lands. So an invitation. This was addressed to the Park and Recreation Commission so you’re
all welcome. Hope to see you there.
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Daniel: And that’s October 1, 2:00 p.m. to, 2 to 4?
Hoffman: 2 to 4.
Daniel: Excellent. Thank you Todd.
Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS.
Todd Neils: Good evening. My name is Todd Neils. I’m the current president of Chanhassen
Little League. I’d like to start by saying in 2008 the Chanhassen Little League had over 1,500
families participate in it’s baseball and softball program. Over the past 3 years the program has
experienced explosive growth which only expects to continue over the next several years as the
community continues to grow. I’d like to take this opportunity on behalf of the Chanhassen
Little League to thank the Park and Rec Commission and staff for their work on their parks to
allow this growth to continue. Specifically the work which has been done at Lake Ann Park with
the addition of lights, dugouts, additional fencing and newly paved walking paths. We’re able to
sustain our growth due to the lights specifically giving us additional opportunity to play night
games which was a large charge for the kids as expected. Beyond the thank you that I’m
extending, I’m here for two additional reasons. First is to get a sense from the commission on
the new concession stand at the park. It is our understanding that the partnership to the city has
entered in with the District 112 for the new baseball/softball stadium will not hinder the timeline
for the concession stand. In order to take the next step as a league and within District 1 of our
Little League, we would like to understand the timeline for construction of a new stand at Lake
Ann Park. My second point concerns field make-up. While we understand the desire of the city
to make fields generally multi-use, there’s a growing need for baseball specific fields particularly
as it pertains to hosting district Little League tournaments. The current structure of fields in
Chanhassen has 47 fields with 4 fields being solely used for baseball. The new high school will
add 4 fields with 3 of those fields being softball related which means that there will be 51 fields
at the city’s disposal with only 5 fields being baseball usable. The Chanhassen Little League
would like to propose a simple option. The league would like to change Lake Ann Park 3 to a
Little League sized field with a 225 fence. Mound and grass infield. Currently the field is a 268
feet and would have to be moved to accommodate these dimensions. The Chanhassen Little
League would like to share the cost of moving the fence by offering a gift of $5,000 towards the
movement of the fence. This will allow the Chanhassen Little League to host district Little
League tournaments which will require 2 fields to Little League specifications. There are
additional needs to make Lake Ann 2 viable. However the largest expense would be incurred
would be the movement of the fence. Additional batting cages and storage facilities would also
be needed at Lake Ann Park, which I think have been addressed over the past several months,
and we can discuss those if interested. And then open to any questions.
Daniel: Okay. Todd, thank you very much and certainly good questions with regard to
concession stand the field make-up and Little League. What we’ll do is open it up to
commissioners and I think we have some questions. Dan, is there any questions you wanted to
ask?
Campion: Not right off the bat.
Daniel: Glenn.
Stolar: Just getting staff’s perspective on this request. How do we sit comparatively with Little
League sized fields and what would be the implication?
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Ruegemer: Well certainly, I mean it’s a community based conversation. Obviously we are
having multi-use fields and we do have you know other associations using the field and other
school groups, that sort of thing so I don’t think it’s beyond the scope of dedicating fields.
We’ve just got to make sure that it’s the right decision for the community so I’m not opposed to
it.
Stolar: There’s nothing that glares out in saying no way, we can’t do it but you’re also saying
let’s make sure we have the right input.
Ruegemer: Right. You’ve got to make sure that you know the decision you make, you want to
make sure that’s a sound decision based on everybody’s interest.
Daniel: Is it, Field 3, is that the far north one? Right along as you.
Hoffman: Along the road.
Daniel: But along there, is that the far north one on the right hand side? Okay.
Stolar: How many Little League sized fields do we have now?
Ruegemer: Well really just the one at Lake Ann. Lake Ann #2.
Stolar: And then do we have any at Bandimere?
Kelly: We have one at Bandimere, well there’s a short fence.
Audience: To be at Lake Ann, or to be a Little League field, there has to be a mound. The
ground has to be grass infield. Fences have to extend out 225 at it’s max. 190 to 225. There are
certain specifications for Little League where we supply those, we’d be happy to supply them to
you as well.
Kelly: The field at Bandimere with the short fence, is that the right size of fence? You know
there are 3 different fields at Bandimere.
Audience: I think that fence at Bandimere is 235 or 240. I think it’s a little longer than 225.
Hoffman: Yeah, it would have to be shortened to make it an official field.
Todd Neils: Commissioner Kelly, the issue more than the fence length at Bandimere Park is the
concession stand issue. Having participated in district Little League play, it is imperative that
you have an appropriate concession stand available to, because you are running your tournament
typically Monday through Saturday, or Monday through Sunday and you’re having 2 games a
day on both fields which means you’re going to have, which typically start at 4:00 or 5:00 in the
afternoon and extend til 10:00 at night. So in order to accommodate those type of events you
would have to have the appropriate concessions available to you so that you can offer burgers
and hotdogs and so on, so forth and that’s why the first question really is far more important,
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
although we’d like to work both in conjunction with the commission and staff to move the fence
so we can get to a Little League specification. We can’t commit to a Little League district
tournament until everything’s complete, and that’s why the first question is, when is the
concession stand anticipated to be complete. And secondly, is the commission, city and staff
open to movement of the field or the fence on Field 3 and reconfiguration.
Daniel: Todd when’s the, in the CIP budget, what do we have it scheduled for? Do we have it in
there at all?
Hoffman: 2013 for $900,000 and that would include this building and then the amphitheater.
Stolar: The current concession stand, can it accommodate some of the things that were needed
or, does it have any cooking?
Hoffman: No it’s, it can accommodate.
Stolar: Candy and nuts and.
Daniel: Coffee, coolers.
Scharfenberg: Not that you can’t cook outside.
Todd Neils: Which we did during our opening day as well as mid-season.
Hoffman: Right. A good portion of that inside space is continuing to be consumed with lighting
equipment for the lights that have been going up. That’s the mechanical storage area for all the
contactors.
Daniel: Steve.
Scharfenberg: Todd, is the, I take it the primary reason that you’re asking us to change Field 2
into a Little League field.
Todd Neils: 3.
Scharfenberg: 3, I’m sorry. 3 is for the district play. To try to get a playoff here.
Todd Neils: Effectively that would be one of the reasons. We have as I said a growing number
of Little Leaguers in our community. We have 600 children participating in baseball alone.
Some of those don’t participate on mounds, although a large percentage of them do and we
would anticipate using those fields throughout the year. Not just for an annual Little League
tournament.
Scharfenberg: Okay. Now I know you’ve, CAA and Little League has entered into discussions
with Chaska about potentially merging. I know that that may not occur but you’ve entered in to
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
those discussions. If just hypothetically say that that would happen, would you have access then
to fields potentially through Chaska to hold a tournament?
Todd Neils: I’m not clear as what the configuration of the baseball fields are in Chaska. I
suspect that they would have appropriate field space. The proposed merger between the two
associations would require a second charter which would mean that all children would continue
to play in Chanhassen and all children would continue to play in Chaska. There would be a
second charter that would allow them to participate in Little League as well rather than Cal
Ripkin.
Scharfenberg: And with respect to the concession stand which you say is kind of the foremost
request that you’re making, just that it’s not sufficient for the needs to hold the district
tournament?
Todd Neils: Based on the number of families for, based on the number of families and games
that participate on a nightly basis, and again that’s 4 games on a nightly basis, you’re talking
about 48 kids who have either come right to the game prior to dinner, or are going to stay after
dinner and maybe watch other games. You’re going to need a rather large, larger concession
stand than is currently available to us.
Scharfenberg: And if you were making a proposal to us in terms of moving this forward, you’ve
heard today that it’s on our project list for start-up. That doesn’t mean it would be completed in
2013. It might be 2014 given some of our latest endeavors that have taken place but, if you had a
proposal to us today, what would that proposal be?
Todd Neils: Well I would, I can’t deny the fact that I’m a little surprised that the concession
stand isn’t slated to start til 2013. When Mr. Gerhardt called and requested the support of
Chanhassen Little League for the gift to the school district, I anticipated that the concession stand
was much closer in it’s horizon than 5 years. So I guess I would be surprised, and am surprised
that it’s so far off in the distance at this point.
Scharfenberg: But you understand in terms of our process with respect to the CIP that it’s kind
of for us it’s a moving target. Every year that we prioritize in terms of trails and other things that
come up in terms of prioritizing those projects, that there are certainly things that we’ve had that
have been on the CIP and then they get moved dramatically back for some particular reason in
terms of, pardon?
Stolar: Like lights.
Scharfenberg: Like lights and things of that nature so you know, so just so you know that that’s
kind of, when we’re making that up, we’re kind of prioritizing and kind of trying to even the
money out between years so that we don’t you know, loading up on one end in particular.
Todd Neils: I understand and appreciate that, having come to several of these over the years.
That there are priorities that the commission takes on and staff to appropriately, or to make sure
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
that the community has appropriate facilities. Again, my expectation however was not that, that
it was 5 years down the road.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Daniel: Scott.
Wendt: I don’t really have anything. Sounds, that would be great for Lake Ann to be able to
host something like that. That’s a really good idea. What would we be losing by changing those
fields to Little League fields? Would we be.
Hoffman: …To Commissioner Scharfenberg’s point, this building was earlier in a variety of
additions. It’s been on the list for a number of years but when time comes to build it, it gets
pushed out because there are other priorities that rise to the surface and people say alright, this
building’s going to be a significant investment. $400,000. Maybe up to $500,000 depending on
how elaborate, if you go to two stories. It’s going to have you know modern restrooms and it’s
going to improve an existing set of facilities that you have, but when that comes up against a new
trail alignment or some other activity that is currently unmet in it’s whole, then the commission
will obviously make that recommendation to council that that happens first. This project, I can
go upstairs and grab the sheet, but it was much earlier…and now this past, when we met in June
I believe is when it was moved into 2013.
Stolar: But part of that was we had said that we’re moving it out from a funding perspective but
that if we as a commission decide to do so, we might set up a way to try and see if we can get
external and commercial funding for it as opposed to park dedication. That we can start earlier I
think is what we had said. We didn’t want to use capital improvement funds right now but that
doesn’t prevent us from going out and trying to work with the community to raise money to do it
so, something you and I that one day we met, something we would be willing to talk about.
Hoffman: Yeah, and as long as we’re speaking about concession stands. There’s also one on
that plan that’s not being built that is also a topic of continuing conversation. There’s two
concession stands at the new high school. One is being built over near the football stadium. The
other one is not being constructed and that is causing some heartburn amongst folks that are
interested in having concessions adjacent to these fields. This is a concession building that will
not be constructed. The one near the baseball and softball. Baseball and softball. This one over
at the football stadium, and so if you were participating in some type of an event or a tournament
over here, that’s going to be a long walk to get you to, and so that’s going to be a challenge as
well. People are going to be looking for this building, and this one’s priced at about $200,000.
The high school is not included in the $600,000 contribution. Is not included in the overall
construction of the site.
Wendt: Is the $900,000 that is set aside for 2013 construction, does that include the
amphitheater?
Hoffman: Yes.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Daniel: Yeah.
Wendt: Okay. And is it at all possible to scale the project down to something that isn’t two
story or something that isn’t, but does offer the necessary and available, or necessary things for
an appropriately run concession stand?
Hoffman: Right now, in the interest of finding out what this building is going to be and exactly
how much it’s going to cost, we have Hoisington-Koegler, one of our park planners taking a look
at a conceptual design. Just a real concept, rough sketch design so we’ll bring that back to the
commission so you can take a look at that when that’s available. We’ll do that over the winter
months. You know anytime you put plumbing, bathrooms, lots of electrical stuff, you’re
building around an existing building. This will be a stick built structure and will be, will not be a
stick and water built structure. It will not be a pre-fab structure because you have to build it
around existing improvements that are there. Dig footings and it’s going to be an involved
project and so the low end would be about a quarter of a million. Probably the high end about a
half a million, depending upon how involved it gets with materials. Example, the warming
house out at the, that was $250,000 but that’s 10 years ago so you’re starting with that kind of
building.
Daniel: Tom?
Kelly: I don’t have anything else.
Daniel: Just a few things here. Todd thank you very much for taking the time to come to the
commission and talk about some of the needs of the Little League organization, as well as
Chanhassen Athletic Association. Existing right now out there Jerry, at Field 3, who is using
that field? Men’s softball obviously is not because those fields are too short now.
Ruegemer: No. Nobody for adults anymore but we do have school softball groups that are using
it. CCA is doing it, they call the girls softball now is out at the Rec Center now.
Todd Neils: Yep, and it’s primarily baseball fields at this point. Used for CAA.
Daniel: Okay.
Ruegemer: And that has kind of shifted. You know kind of shifted you know from you know
kind of the girls playing there to kind of the boys basically playing the last 2 to 3 years probably.
Todd Neils: Two years specifically in that it has as much to do with wanting to offer a
community type atmosphere for our softballers so that the younger girls can go watch the older
girls play and so on and so forth. In addition to having the younger boys have the opportunity to
watch some of the older boys play. The boys are scattered much more around Chanhassen
whereas we are centrally located for our girls at the Rec Center.
Daniel: What’s the girls softball, what’s the?
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Ruegemer: Chapel Hill and St. Hubert’s.
Daniel: Yeah but what’s the baseline? 60?
Ruegemer: 60 feet.
Daniel: Same with the Little League if I remember correctly.
Ruegemer: But the difference would be there’d be a mound.
Todd Neils: There’d be a mound and a grass infield.
Daniel: Ah, gotch ya. Yeah, I was going to say that’s one thing with the fences too but we’ve
got to realign the, or we’ve got to put grass inside…
Ruegemer: These are different distances.
Todd Neils: 46 feet versus.
Ruegemer: 35.
Todd Neils: 40 feet for softball. But again you can’t effectively play softball with a mound.
Daniel: No. No, no, not at all. That’s what we’re trying to figure out. I mean if it’s primarily
being used right now, is there, if we do bring in the fences. Make it a Little League only field,
and put the mound in, then will that have an impact on the girls softball, both at Chapel Hill?
Will that impact them? Do they have someplace else to go?
Ruegemer: Well that’s what needs to be kind of looked at for that. I mean a lot of the, a lot of
the school based programs at this point are really using the existing facilities that we have and
their numbers continue to grow and it’s finding, you know it is getting harder and harder to find
space for them to play as well but if we do things creatively and schedule that, we certainly can
take a look at that.
Daniel: I think that’s the ball to examine here I think. Moving it. Second of all, crazy idea but
for $250,000, I just think you can get a really nice portable concession stand that gives you
everything you want. Is there, would there be any interest at all given the fact that both
Bandimere, Lake Ann, either on short term or long term. Are there that type of options there?
That we have seen it either in the public, other facilities where we can examine possibly that and,
I mean I’m trying to think outside of the box that might give you something short term because
the short term answer if we really wanted to, and Todd if we were to go for example with the
field, give you the ability to host a tournament is simple more than a grill and existing, and the
existing stand as it sits because that’s certainly not, you know that certainly could address a short
term issue. But then also, I guess if that’s something that maybe the City can partner with other,
not only that association but other associations. The Lions, all of them as far as addressing that.
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That’s if we have the facility to store something like that. I mean Todd has there been any look
into that? Have you seen anything come across before portable concession stands?
Hoffman: Well they’re certainly out there. You can, there’s probably a dozen catalogues you
could buy a portable concession stand, if that’s want you wanted to get into. This structure is
more than just for a tournament.
Daniel: Oh sure.
Hoffman: If you’re focusing on, I’d go out there and help them pitch the tent for that week, but
this is much more a long term facility for all of your activities that are taking place out there and
right now the whole community and all the visitors that come to our city for baseball, softball,
soccer, they, they’re working out a little tight, little concession building that was donated by the
American Legion back in about 1986 and it laid up there on the hill for 2 years because nobody
wanted to put it in. Then we finally hired somebody to build the structure and it’s been serving
the community ever since. With portable restrooms so. Long term it’d be nice. There’s water
underneath there. There’s electric available there so we set up the site to be able to
accommodate that.
Daniel: Assuming sewer.
Hoffman: There’s sewer service that would need to be dug, or directionally bored down to the
lift station that’s down at the lake that’s already serving the other building. The concession
building down at the lake and then that pumps all the way around Lake Ann on the west side, or
the east side of the lake over to Greenwood Shores and into that lift station so that’s how that
building’s going to be serviced when it’s built in the future. You know short term, if you want to
deal for a weekend, or for a tournament, I wouldn’t want to go out and buy some $100,000
concession stand to haul around.
Daniel: And that’s what I’m trying to get at. I mean do we want to, is it a concession stand issue
or is it a long term facilities issue that we need to address where not only the CAA and the Little
League, but softball. Softball tournaments. Now we’re obviously hosting in July tournament as
well, I mean for, and that’s what I think we all want to get kind of a grasp on. What’s important?
What is the prioritization of that site? Is it strictly concessions? Then you know is 5 years, is
that too much to ask based off of our CIP and how we can address it short term. If it’s more than
just that, then I think we certainly need to ask more questions as to what are the cost benefits for
moving a project of that scale, whether it be with the amphitheater or without it, closer in our
budget and what other impacts we have. You know for example, and Todd as you mentioned
how we have to adjust things. You know for example up until the referendum was passed for the
city, we didn’t have $500,000 laid out for Lyman and that quite frankly wasn’t a prioritization
for us. Got hands tied on that and forced to move forward. I mean that’s how those type of
projects get slid, or moved and certainly if, I would say money’s no object but if we certainly had
those type of projects not impact us, then I think a project like this would have been much sooner
and see but I, and I guess last to finish up here Glenn, we had talked about private donations or
going to the private sector to address some of the funding for this to offset costs and what can we
do about that. I mean if you look at what Minnetonka had done with Veteran’s Field, I think
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everyone agrees who’s been out there, it’s a phenomenal place and that’s how you construct a
ballfield is something just like that. They have the concession stands. You have a beautiful ball
park, but they were able to do it in the private sector as well, so I think either a combination of,
you know if there’s some sort of program or effort made in place where maybe we can bring it
on the private sector to offset some of those costs. Then I think we have a better chance of
moving that from a 2013 date in. And I’m not saying there’s possibilities on the CAA as well, or
anybody else, but you know certainly that’s something I think, if we have those type of
discussions and we have those type of moves, I think we can see that moving closer. And I can’t
speak on behalf of everybody on the commission or the city itself but I would assume that would
certainly help the cause. So absolutely I mean I think we all agree there needs to be some
improvement and I think it will provide a benefit but I think we just find out what, how big are
the benefits going to be based off that cost. So is there anything else Todd that you may have or
anything that we can address?
Todd Neils: No. No, based on the discussion of the commission and staff, if you’re interested in
our check, let me know.
Daniel: Well it brings to light some very good questions and I think with regards to the, to your
first point about the concession stand. I think we can have some continued discussions and I
think you know with regards to Todd and Jerry let’s, you know right now 2013 seems a long way
out there but over the next few months here, let’s address that on a side. I think the short term
question that I think is more reasonable and that’s something we can address here would be with
regards to the field. What type of, Dan?
Campion: Well and, also in lieu of the private funding to move the concession stand up, if, I
mean the portable concession stand idea, where you rent a trailer, whatever and have that
available for the tournament or the playoffs and the field got taken care of, I mean that sounds to
me like a decent short term solution.
Daniel: For tournaments. There’s a lot of things that have to happen before then.
Todd Neils: You know I appreciate the thought. However, I would like to mirror Mr.
Hoffman’s sentiments. I think you know Lake Ann Park, as it stands, sans concession stand, is a
great park. And I think that I would like to, I would rather wait til an appropriate stand is built to
offer up to District 1 to host a tournament. You know I think long term, as I think about it, you
know from April to end of July or middle of July, we’re playing up at Lake Ann Park probably 5
nights a week, as well as men’s softball so there’ll be plenty of opportunity to use the concession
stand, you know both for softball and baseball. Long term. But I would like to see a permanent,
more permanent structure, a long term to maintain the beauty of the park.
Daniel: Okay.
Stolar: During the summer you have the concession stand down there by the beach. I know it’s
a walk, but you know it’s a walk at Veteran’s field. If you’re playing softball, you’ve got to go
all the way around and up to get to the concession so it’s no different there so there is a
concession stand there during the summer. The question I would have is, is there any way that
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that becomes a facility to be used, if you have a tournament let’s say, where you want to have
some use for earlier in the season, is that something to consider?
Todd Neils: There’s a concession stand down by the lake?
Ruegemer: Yeah.
Stolar: I mean when it’s not open like if it’s something that.
Todd Neils: I didn’t even know that.
Scharfenberg: Oh yeah. Pretty nice one.
Stolar: Yeah, the building by the lake there has a concession stand.
Daniel: Full concessions.
Todd Neils: Full concessions with.
Stolar: Hot dogs.
Todd Neils: Grills and so on, so forth.
Stolar: I don’t know if it has grills but it has that hotdog machine thing, right?
Stutzman: It does have a hotdog machine. It does not have a formal grill.
Stolar: Which you know, that park doesn’t have a formal grill. I don’t think Veteran’s doesn’t.
Todd Neils: Veteran’s and Bennett both just grill outside.
Stolar: Grill outside, yeah. But they have the hotdog machine so you can get hotdogs and brats.
Daniel: Neither does Pagel Arena for hockey as well, or even any of the hockey games. You
know the hamburger machines, or the hamburger grills inside, but still they’re able to provide I
think a full meal on that, but certainly again those are things that we could look at alternatively.
You know and again it’s the outfield fence…
Stolar: The current building, does it have electricity to it that you could put machines in there or
it’s not?
Hoffman: It has electricity, sure. And it’s just such a small area.
Daniel: It’s taxed for space.
Stolar: So space is the real issue.
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Todd Neils: If you were to take this area and cut it by a third.
Stolar: You’ve never worked in a restaurant with four chefs?
Daniel: I guess there probably should be, and correct me if I’m wrong…some sort of movement
with regards to further analysis on the field. I think that’s, I think Todd we want to address that
first and foremost and do you agree Glenn?
Stolar: Yeah, I’d asked staff to come back to a meeting with some, you know what are.
Daniel: Implications.
Stolar: Implications.
Kelly: Programs that use those fields.
Scharfenberg: Yeah Todd Hoffman, are there, is that field used at all for soccer or football or
Lacrosse? Not? Okay.
Todd Neils: And again, as I noted, there are 43 fields in Chanhassen which are appropriately
sized for, for which are multi-use fields and can be used for softball if need be. Bandimere Park
being one of them. If the fences, you know if the fence is the primary problem with the distance
for either Chapel Hill or Holy Family or any of the other schools that would use it. St. Hubert’s.
Hoffman: This is a very similar conversation to the one we were in 8 years ago or so.
Todd Neils: Did they come with their checkbook?
Hoffman: Just a point of process. Jerry is upstairs copying the currently proposed CIP and so
we’d like to thank Todd and John for coming in. We don’t get enough of this type of interaction
from members from our community so we appreciate that. But a point of process, your
recommendation from June goes to the council as a part of this year’s budget and so the current
CIP still stands until this new one would be approved and so all citizens have the opportunity to
come into council budget hearings to talk about things that they would like to see as priorities.
That’s really what this is about. It’s a budget that establishes priorities that the Park and
Recreation Commission identifies with their viewpoint out into the community and then they
forward that to the council. Now as always the next year’s always the most important because
these things again to Steve’s comment, they fluctuate wildly from, not wildly but they fluctuate
each year based on new information. New priorities. What’s going on in the community.
Where is the money being invested? What opportunities are coming up? Lyman Boulevard, half
a million dollars in trails. We’re not quite sure if we’re done with that project yet. That project
was hanging out there for 15 years and all of a sudden it’s on our doorstep and we’re into the
thing for at least a half a million, maybe a million dollars before it’s all said and done. Again the
park dedication fund has $3.8 million dollars in cash right now. This program calls for about
$6.8 million dollars in proposed investments over 5 years and if you start to take that, look at the
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
cash that we’re anticipating, you may not be able to as a commission or as a community finance
all of these things based on the economy that we’re experiencing right now so this proposal is
dependent upon future cash receipts. Want to remind everybody that if we don’t take any more
money and you run out of money after a year...
Daniel: So, why don’t we get a movement to evaluate the impact of moving, or bringing in the
fences.
Campion: Alright I’d move to further investigate making only the field modifications and what
would be involved with that.
Wendt: Second it.
Daniel: All in favor?
Scharfenberg: Well, how about discussion? I just got another, before we left. Are you
proposing, if the fields, if Field 3 be changed, that’s something you’re proposing to be done for
next year? Knowing that, I don’t know is that physically possible to probably lay down sod, it’s
probably 2 years away maybe from that happening?
Todd Neils: I think in the short term, because as I said we play until about mid-July, maybe end
of June, end of July. I think that you could leg into that.
Scharfenberg: You could what?
Todd Neils: You could leg into that. I think what you can do is, is you can, and I’ve seen Mr.
Hoffman’s ability to move contractor’s along when they’re slow to get lights in. But I think
what you can do is you can move the fence. If you can get the contractor to move the fence and
then also put the mound in effectively after the season ends, you could grow the sod, or put the
sod in so you would have a field, a bare field, infield for one year. One season. But you would
still have the mound and the Little League sized fence and then, coming into year 2 we could
have the grass grown.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Daniel: Is this something Todd that we’d go outside to do the, move the fences in or is that
something Dale and his crew could.
Hoffman: No, we’d hire the fence moved in.
Daniel: Okay. Have to surveyed I assume and all those other costs.
Hoffman: Well at that point we’d have to evaluate whether or not we’re going to move the
existing fence or purchase a.
Scharfenberg: New one.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Hoffman: Staff would have to take a look at the condition of the fence that’s out there and.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: You’ve got to, those poles are driven and they’re channel steel so it pull them out and
drive them back in may not be a, it’s just something you have to take a look at. It can be done in
a day so.
Stolar: Is that also something that could possibly have a, like a double fence there so that, the
inner fence is one that we’d put in such that, you know 3 years down the road we decide we have
to change it again, you can just pull it up but leave the other fence out there since it’s further out.
Hoffman: Sure.
Todd Neils: The Chanhassen Little League Association hosted a, the state tournament this year
at Lake Ann Park and used temporary fencing for their outfield fence on both Lake Ann 4 and 5
with the help of Mr. Ruegemer and staff, and that worked out quite well. We would want
something of a more permanent structure for the gift of $5,000 however.
Stolar: But understood but it would be permanent but it’s still double so if we ever have to move
it out, we could.
Todd Neils: I see your point, yeah.
Daniel: So keep the existing fence and make a Little League fence?
Stolar: Yeah.
Hoffman: Okay.
Daniel: Well how could we re-phrase the new proposal?
Stolar: Did anything change?
Scharfenberg: I don’t think anything changed.
Daniel: Just a reference, okay. Nothing changed?
Campion: No. And maybe I should say that.
Daniel: For next year.
Campion: Yeah, that we investigate for making the field improvements for next year and I guess
there’s no harm in also investigating getting more of a definitive plan around what it would cost
for making that a shelter with lights.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: You could switch Bandimere and Lake Ann and buy yourself 2 years. Bandimere’s in
here for 2011 at half a million. Bandimere Community Park shelter, restroom.
Wendt: I was going to say too, is there, I missed the last meeting but is there a cost savings why
they’re combined? The amphitheater and the ballfield shelter. If we separated the two projects.
I don’t know if that’s even a possibility.
Hoffman: Yeah, you can separate them.
Daniel: I think it was taking advantage of, obviously a contractor would be involved potentially.
Stolar: We’re also looking saying let’s just look for sponsorships for both of those. It’s been
separate for all these other years.
Daniel: Okay. Anybody want to second?
Wendt: I’ll second.
Campion moved, Wendt seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission ask staff to
investigate making Little League field modifications at Lake Ann Park for next year. All
voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Daniel: Okay. Todd, thank you very much.
Todd Neils: Thank you.
Hoffman: We’ll most likely take that public hearing process on in review in November-
December timeframe.
Daniel: Perfect. Alright. I guess, suppose we’re in no hurry now.
Hoffman: No, but you don’t want to wait til April.
Daniel: April or May. We’ve got a little bit of time to work but alright, thank you Todd and
John. Thank you very much for showing up. Appreciate it.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Scharfenberg moved, Kelly seconded to approve the
verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated
August 12, 2008 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with
a vote of 6 to 0.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
2008 LAKE ANN CONCESSION/BOAT RENTAL EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: Thanks Chair Daniel. Just want to let you know that we did have a decent summer
here this year. It started off a little slow in June with kind of the cold and kind of rainy weather.
Certainly it was a goal of staff’s to look at new ways to improve the efficiency of the concession
stand. We certainly look to, it was a good year for us. We had relatively new employees out
there which was a plus for us, is that we could reduce hourly wages and labor costs down there
and that really is, really helped our bottom line this year. We’ve in the past, last couple three
years we’ve had 3, 4, 5 year returning staff which certainly tends to elevate the labor cost down
there. We kind of started fresh and over this year. Certainly one of the positives of that was we
certainly could save on the labor costs and we certainly tried to kind of operate on a shoestring
budget down there and eliminate hours and really kind of keep on top of shifts doubling up and
really kind of work when we needed to to add additional people with busy times, that sort of
thing. We certainly did look at the hours of operation. We did close it down an hour earlier in
August to help save some of those costs. Really tried to look at, not only equipment but product,
quantities and supplies this year. We did reduce our Coca Cola ordering and other types of
ordering from Watkins and, or some of those type of things. So really they have a good year.
Our boat rentals certainly did increase this year and I think that was up about $1,100 or $1,200 in
revenue from last year with that. We had a great season with boats not breaking down. Pedals
not falling off. Chains not falling off, that sort of thing so we had a pretty good season that way.
Dale and, Dale’s crew always really does a good job on keeping those, the watercraft in
operation and addressing any types of issues that we may have. To do that so, looking ahead you
can kind of look through the expenditures. Part of that and kind of how it was broken down, not
only in hours and wages. You can see how we reduced it, close to over $1,000 from last year.
Certainly look at the hours. We were oh roughly about 100 less than last year so we really tried
to look at a lot of the operation and kind of look at, and kind of create in a little bit more
efficiently. You also had done, we did realize a larger profit this year after expenses and labor
was paid with that so we had a good year with that. Certainly you know general comments.
Really just try to keep it kind of a simplified menu option down there. Quick point of sale. The
meal deal seems to be a very popular thing. Chips, hotdog and a soda. All that remains popular.
We’re going to look to kind of update fall season procedures again for next year. Kind of add
some new policies in place and just so we’re keeping on top of Emily. Employee issues but
other procedural types of issues as well as we listed the watercraft area. Just reviewing the
process, we seem to take a look at, step back and see what worked and what didn’t work. Gather
feedback from customers and also staff with that so, and with that just looking at you know
attached with the evaluation certainly is the daily sales. We didn’t have a lot of rain out dates
this year. There certainly were some days that were slower than others. We certainly had
different groups coming up you know from YMCA, SUDA, Minnetonka Explorers, through
other types of daycare groups that came out throughout the course of the summer that we
coordinated lifeguard services for so that all helps you know our bottom line certainly having
additional people come with busloads of kids. That really helped out this year. And just looking
at, to the attachment of the hours and wages. Our food vendor expenses kind of per invoice with
that so we really kind of tried to keep on top of that this year and overall there certainly were
challenges with the concession stand but we did realize, you know we do have a pretty decent
operation that was very valued by our community out there and we’re happy to provide that
service so that’s always nice when you realize a profit as well so.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Daniel: Excellent. In looking at this Jerry. I have to certainly commend the Park and
Recreation Department for getting a 6% increase in sales, but you guys are just borderline on
Godness when it comes to 600% increase in profit. I think you got your wrong calling because
certainly the private could use some sort of improvement in manufacturing with something like
that, but that, now that’s impressive. But in all seriousness, it’s fantastic. I mean to see us, for
the city to turn that type of operation into something like what you’re showing right here in, the
balance sheet is really fantastic. We had a chance to get down ourselves and certainly enjoy a
soda and a hotdog and it was a great operation so I can’t say anything more than just a great job
all around for the Park and Rec Department on that.
Stolar: It sounds like you should put signs over by the ballfield pointing to the concession stand.
Daniel: Anything else?
Kelly: Are there kayaks there or just canoes?
Ruegemer: Just canoes, paddleboats and row boats with or without electric trolling motors.
Kelly: Has there been thought about adding kayaks?
Ruegemer: You know we have thought about that in the past and you know kayaks certainly are
a little bit more tricky to paddle. Depends what type of kayak you get. So just for the, you know
looking at kind of the big picture, canoes seemed to be an easier thing to navigate. Watercraft to
navigate. We certainly don’t have a real easy way of rescuing people across the lake when they
tip over in a kayak, that sort of thing so those are the type of things we’re going to take a look at
for the operation for next year.
Daniel: Anyone else? Great Jerry. Thank you very much. Wonderful report.
Kelly: If you keep raising profit like this you’ll be able to pay for the concession stand in about
3-4 years. Keep the 600% increase in profit.
Ruegemer: Just let me know if you want me to write the check.
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
2008 KLEIN BANK LUNCHTIME LYRICS/TWILIGHT TUNES CONCERT SERIES.
Daniel: John, I think you’re going to talk about that.
Stutzman: Yes, thank you Chair Daniels. As Commissioner Scharfenberg brought up at our last
meeting, this was another good summer of this program. By far the biggest thing we added was
a title sponsor this year. I did talk with Klein quite frequently. Just kind of saying you know, are
you guys happy? What can we do to keep you happy and they seemed to really enjoy it. The
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
biggest thing I got out of them was just that the name being out there and us helping them get
their name out was really what they want. Everything else is kind of a bonus on top of it.
Daniel: Sure.
Stutzman: They were a fantastic partner, as I mentioned in the report. They were giving away
free stuff at almost every concert, whether, and even at the end when they kind of, you could tell
that they were a little exhausted from the summer as well. They were still at least giving you
know raffles or something away. They were really a wonderful partner and went way above and
beyond just the check that they wrote for us. I mean they helped, you know the flier on the
second page here, they created that for us…but we did have advertising that we were happy to
do. They said no, we want our marketing department to come out and do this, so they did that. I
don’t know if you guys saw the banner that was on their bank. I mean they distributed it with
deposit slips. They had all kinds of advertising that they did, by choice and so they were really a
wonderful partner on that note. As far as the music goes, I really strived to provide a wide
variety of different styles out there. I think it was pretty well received. A couple were a little
more creative and not quite as well received as I had hoped, but figured I’d at least give them a
try. I think the philosophy I’m going to look to adapt, just based on the, which concerts were the
most successful this year. It seems when we bought in big names like Boyd Lee and Joe Cruise
and the Splatter Sisters, those concerts were fantastic, as well as the bands that we had, had some
type of local ties. I think our biggest concert of the year was actually when we brought the
Minnesota Community, Minnesota Community Valley Band in, or Minnesota Valley
Community Band in. We had by far our best turnout so, and those are generally less expensive
bands so what I’ll look to do next year is find a few of those to offset and then go out and find a
few of the more expensive bands, such as the Splatter Sisters and Boyd Lee and Joe Cruise and
try to offset those there and continue to keep it, rather than just about an average of 200. See if
we can’t get that up to over 200 plus every show rather than off of an fluctuating show so. We
also added a concession vendor this year. It was a learning curve this year, but a lot of that was
just people didn’t know. People, it hadn’t been done in the past. People weren’t quite sure. By
the end she was doing a lot better. Very easy to work with and we’ll continue to work with her
and I did talk with her about coming back next year. Just a very open relationship to keep the
door open so everybody stays happy. She realizes we’re growing and that it was a new idea this
year and so she’s willing to be flexible with us and I’m definitely willing to listen to her needs
and see what we can do to make it work, but I thought that was a very nice addition to the series
as well. The only other thing I would really like to say about this is, I think this is a wonderful
project for the intern each year. Mitch Johnson, our intern, did a fantastic job with coordinating
this. I had set it up prior to his arrival but really he took care of the daily operations of this and
did a wonderful job. I think it really gives the intern an opportunity to take something hands on.
It’s their own project. Granted it has been set up prior to their arrival but gives them that
learning curve without saying you know, here’s a project. Just go do it. It’s here your project.
You’ve got 8 weeks to make it your own, and as I said, Mitch did a wonderful job on that this
summer so.
Daniel: And it looks like you plan on keeping the children’s music. How were those received,
the two noon, Lunchtime Lyrics?
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Stutzman: Yep, the Splatter Sisters was during the day, and that was fantastic. We had a
wonderful turnout, I don’t remember the exact numbers but I want to say it was at least 250
people were here that day. The other one, actually it was quite unfortunate. That was the day we
had rain. That was also a day that Klein Bank was giving away free hotdogs as customer
appreciation and we had rain so we had to move it into the senior center. But we did still have
about 100 people there that day. It was a lesser known children’s band but they were very good
to work with. Seemed to play very good music. It was just very unfortunate that that’s the day
we got some pretty close to severe weather during lunch and so, I think it does work well to have
the children’s concerts during the day because then you can contact the daycares and get
daycares to use that as a field trip and that was quite successful. We had many, many daycares at
both of the lunchtime shows.
Daniel: Fantastic. Anybody want to comment on the Lunchtime Lyrics, Twilight Tunes?
Wendt: So can we expect increased free Schwag during the concerts?
Stutzman: Well that’s completely up to Klein. As we have talked to them, they were again very,
very appreciative of the opportunity to join us and very, and did like the partnership, as we did
too so hopefully that will continue in the future. Again I thought it was a wonderful addition and
encouraged them every week to as well so.
Daniel: Okay. Thank you John by the way for coordinating that and thank you for the staff, as
well as the intern. Mitch?
Stutzman: Yep.
Daniel: And obviously it was another success so great job, thank you.
2008 HALLOWEEN PARTY PREVIEW.
Stutzman: Thank you again. Well it’s hard to believe but it is coming up very, very quickly.
th
The annual Halloween party and if I’m not mistaken this is our 25 year for the Halloween party
th
and so we’re coming up on that. That will be held October 25 out at the Rec Center from 5:30
to 7:30. The volunteers this year, as those of you who were out last year, we were, the Key Club
didn’t provide their normal plethora of people coming out but to…does not happen again I have
contacted the other schools that service Chanhassen, as well as just finding volunteers that have
contacted me so that’s my primary goal at this point is making sure that we do have more than
enough volunteers this year to establish that, as this activity is very, very volunteer reliant so we
will make sure to do that. I’m pleased to announce the entertainment has been booked this year.
We’ll be working with Igor’s Players which is actually, they put on the Halloween that Almost
Wasn’t last year at the Chaska Valley Community Theater. They contacted me this year, they’re
going to come out and put on that same performance. Altered a little bit for us as I talked to
them, I’m hoping rather than just a play, that they get the audience more involved and so they
altered it a little bit so they really get audience participation without more. I’ve seen a script. It
looks very, very good so they’re going to come in. I like keeping the local option as well
attached to a local celebration so that is going to be very, very fun. And other than that we’re
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
starting distributing fliers and working on the advertising for this. We’re looking forward to this
event as well so.
Stolar: Are you going to send us an email because we don’t meet again before, to sign up.
Stutzman: Yes. I will do that probably the first week of October. I’ll get in touch with you
guys.
Stolar: We meet at the end of October so it’s actually after the Halloween I believe.
Ruegemer: Tuesday after.
Stolar: The Tuesday after.
Daniel: Oh. Oh, gotch ya.
Stutzman: Any commissioners interested is always welcomed. Appreciate your guy’s help. I
will send out an email for everybody.
Daniel: Yeah, if you could just do that.
Stutzman: Probably the first of October, or the first week of October as we get closer.
Stolar: Thanks.
Daniel: Great, thank you John.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Sarles: Hello, thank you. Had a busy summer. A lot of facility work going on at the rec center.
If you’ve been in and out, you might have seen the gym’s been kind of up and down and closed
here and there. The gym wall is not repaired. That was a structural problem that they had some
parts they couldn’t locate I guess earlier, the first week we scheduled to have that done out there
so that came back. We’re back up and running after our two weeks. They re-surfaced the floors.
Cleaned out all the carpet. Everything. They’re going to be cleaning over those 2 weeks we shut
down. Maintenance on the equipment and everything. I’m happy now…in the report but next
Tuesday they’re going to start installing the gym lighting so we will have new fluorescent
lighting. Energy efficient so. They’re going to work on our side and then move into the Bluff
Creek side so we’re kind of coordinating back and forth program space. A little concerned with
the school about their dodge ball program so…so we’re back and forth so. They’ve also been
really helpful too. Throughout the year they’re going to start painting our side so you’ll start
seeing an updated color scheme in there.
Daniel: Great.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Sarles: It’s been, the past couple weeks here, last week, this week and next week I think all the
rec center programs will be back up and running so tonight all the people were coming in and
last week started with all the preschool sports so, it’s fun to see everybody kind of coming back
out and coming back inside a little bit. We tried a few trial classes and so we’ve had about 25 to
30 people that came in last week to try Yoga and try the Zumba class so it was good to see folks
th
coming in to try those free things out. We did the fall fitness and Fun Fest on September 6. It
wasn’t a great day out there but we had about 50 people that kind of came throughout the day but
as far as the weather was too nice outside to be back inside so, but we did have people signed up
and do a variety of programs and participate. Friday night is our Barnyard Boogie so if anybody
is looking for something to do with the family, we have the petting zoo will be out there. We’ve
got a little dance and crafts and fun things. That’s held in conjunction with the Chaska Park and
Rec too.
Daniel: Is that something that’s going to be in the existing Connection magazine?
Sarles: It’s in there right now, yep.
Daniel: Okay. As well as any other advertisements through like the Villager?
Sarles: I think it’s in our column in the Villager. I drop it off at all the daycares. Had it on the
GoCarverGo web site. Sign out on the streets, yeah.
Daniel: Great. Excellent.
Sarles: Yeah, so should be a fun night out there.
Daniel: Good.
Sarles: And then we also received our capital furniture so if you haven’t been out there to check
out the new lobby furniture, we look pretty spiffy right now so.
Daniel: Excellent. Was there anything else did we talk about Todd, or Jodi, did we get any new
monitors in there? We had talked about that at one time.
Hoffman: Yeah, we have not. We talked about it. We’re working on that possibility for the
front and then also a overhead projector, or this kind of projector. CD projector. Overhead
projector for our, in the media room section.
Daniel: Okay. Would that be part of CIP or would that be in general fund?
Hoffman: Part of the future budgets and we have a donation currently that we’ve accepted from
TCF Bank for $1,000 and that’s going towards the future installation of the LCD’s but the other
stuff is not included in the CIP right now.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Daniel: Okay, great. Because I know we’ve wanted to talk about some sort of scrolling
billboard and advertisements and announcements so people can see right when they came in, at
least it’d be visible. Excellent. Okay, thank you Jodi. Is there anything else you’d like to add?
That’s about it huh?
Sarles: That’s about it right now.
Daniel: Okay. Well thank you very much. Appreciate it. Did Steve or anyone?
Scharfenberg: No.
SENIOR CENTER REPORT.
Bill: Good evening. Busy summer at the senior center. I’m just amazed at the number of
activities and the participants. One of the programs, Enhanced Fitness, I think I mentioned that
last time. It’s evidence based fitness program and we received, well the NAAA got a grant so
the first year of that program we get all the money for the registration, and we’re in a second
session. 21 participants. Jodi and I have been meeting with the lady from NAAA and they said
it’s one of the most successful launches of the programs they’ve had in the last couple years.
Been great to have Jodi on board to work and to continue to help promote that program and run it
and the two of us are really working on trying to get more fitness programs at the Rec Center, so
Enhanced Fitness has really filled that bill. Defensive Driving, I have one 4 hour class a month
and every other month I have an 8 hour class and I bet I average 20 to 25 people a month. They
just drive over and drive away a lot safer. It’s really a nice money making program. I have to
pay $10 to AARP and I charge $14 and it’s pretty amazing how many people continually come.
Probably half of the people, if not more than half the people are not regular people. Regular
participants at the senior center, and the comments I hear when they come in, boy this is really a
nice space. We never knew this was here and then I always put in a little plug for our program
and I get a lot of people that have only come for Defensive Driving that come for other classes so
that’s a real tribute to the city and their commitment to the senior center. Day trips, we do one
day trip a month, and I split them with Chaska. We had a day trip that went today to Taylor
Falls. A boat cruise, 58 people. We went on a boat cruise. We are now all day trips are
departing from the recreation center due to parking issues here and the staff at the recreation
center has been great with helping check people and making people feel really welcome, and it’s
really I think Todd, right, eased the burden of some of the parking. Especially in the summer
when the library is really used so at first changes are hard for… You know we heard that but we
do call and remind them but I haven’t heard any negative. I even did an alternate route where
they wouldn’t have to go on Highway 5. They could take the frontage road because crossing
Highway 5 is an issue so. But anyway, that’s going really, really well.
Scharfenberg: That’s why they take up defensive driving.
Bill: And I was here for Defensive Driving last week and I stayed for about half of it and it’s
like, oh I’m late and I’ve got to rush home. You know I hope I won’t get a ticket but I know the
deputies so, they got a laugh out of that. I’ve had two sessions of my Donuts with the Deputies
and that’s been really well received. It’s the third Monday of the month and the first time I think
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
there were 4 deputies there and it’s a question and answer. A lot of it’s on traffic. Noise
violations. Different things like that, but really interactive. 20-25 people have come for each of
the sessions. October will be a big month. They’re going to be bringing the dogs. The crime
dogs and the drug dogs, if they haven’t had an active night because then they’ll have to sleep
during the day. So people are looking forward to that, but it’s been really, a very, very nice way
for you know the deputies to be able to respond to questions and the seniors to feel like they have
a vehicle to ask questions without feeling intimidated. So it’s really, really nice. Other than that
the summer just was busy. Fall is proving to be very busy but all in all we’ve seen a number of
new faces at the senior center and just a lot of positive comments so all is going well.
Daniel: I see, got a copy of the Chanhassen Senior Center News. Really nice. How’s the Wii
Program going?
Bill: The Wii took a little Wii respite in the summer. We had a few, I had a couple high school
nd
kids and they weren’t real reliable. October 2, Thursday morning I’ve got somebody to run it
and we’re going to start league play. If any of you want to take a morning off and come and help
the league, we need additional hands would be very much appreciated, so we’re going to start
nd
that October 2, on a Thursday morning.
Stolar: I’ve got a question for you that might, when is the trail opening around the Nature
Preserve?
Kelly: It’s open.
Stolar: It’s open already?
Hoffman: Well it’s open to gravel. Open to Commissioner Kelly.
Kelly: I was coming the other way so it didn’t say closed.
Hoffman: We hope to pave it Thursday or Friday and it will be officially opened later on in the
fall.
Stolar: I was just thinking that might be a day trip possibility if people want to take a walk
around the new trail by the nature preserve.
Kelly: It could be the nicest .79 miles of trail in the whole city. Seriously. It is really nice.
Bill: Wonderful. Maybe we could get our Park and Rec Director Todd Hoffman to lead that
walk.
Hoffman: Be glad to.
Bill: That’s a great idea.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Stolar: For next, I don’t know if we can do it even in this fall, because if it’s going to be done
soon, it’d be a nice fall walk. Colors changing.
Daniel: Okay, thank you Susan. Hi Dale.
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Gregory: Well another busy summer’s on it’s way out and along with that I also lose most of my
seasonals. I do have 5 seniors that work for me all summer and they can actually work 6 months
so I have those until the beginning of November, so it really helps us out a lot. They pretty much
take care of all our grass cutting yet and picking up garbage and we’ve got one that goes around
and that and he’ll start taking down nets and soccer nets and all that sort of stuff and they’ve
been really a big help to us and that for the past year so they really work out good. We’ve also,
we’ve striped 18 soccer fields. 2 football fields and we both, with Jerry’s help and that, we’ve
also had Bandimere Field #2 resting this year and that so we were able to re-seed it and do some
work on it. Get some of the rough areas out of it and hopefully get it ready again for next
summer so. We’ve done a lot of re-seeding. Lake Ann, as you know and that has taken a hit in
the last 2 years with the reconstruction of the road, the parking lots. Putting in the ballfield
lights, and also with the pavilion and that and we didn’t have real good luck with the contractors
and that that was doing the restoration and that. We didn’t really get good seed beds and that and
so we decided to do it all ourself and go over all of those. The guys have been working here oh
the past week and a half and that getting all that area ready and that. We’ve re-seeded it with the
slit seeder and we also went out and rented a hydro seeder and that and we are covering
everything with mulch and also with more seed. We’re trying to get really a good crop of grass
started and that this fall so we’ve got, we’re going into spring with really a good product again
so. That’s come along real good. Along with the re-seeding and everything else we had a lot of
areas out at Lake Ann that sodded this year. Right by the ballfields. The side hills where the
electrical work was done. We didn’t feel that seed would hold there and that. We’d get a
washing so we did some ditch areas. The pavilion was all sodded around that area and that so.
Along with that it also takes a lot of water and that and I pretty much tied up one guy every other
day that did nothing but water sod all year round this year. We were able to keep ahead of it and
that and actually that sod’s going into the winter is looking really good, so we should be in good
shape there. We’ve done a little bit of tree removal in the parks and a little bit of brush removal
on the trails and that where we’ve had some problems and that, but I have gone out. I’ve pretty
much surveyed just about every one of our parks. I’ve driven a lot of our trails and that and I’ve
got a map set up now for this fall, going into the fall and winter time and we’ll start doing some
tree removal. I’m up to about, just about 100 trees right now of Dutch elm disease and some
other dead trees and that that are even close to our trails. They can fall on the trails or are in our
parks and that, that are really eye sores and that so we are, we’re going to have a busy winter
along with the skating rinks just taking trees down and removed so.
Daniel: Any of that in Kerber Park?
Gregory: Huh?
Daniel: Any of that in Kerber Pond?
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Gregory: No. They can stay in there. That’s a wildlife area.
Daniel: Speaking of which, when’s the trail going to open up again?
Hoffman: Within the next month. Month and a half.
Daniel: Okay. And it’s going to be up top of the berm I assume, that’s at Kerber Pond for the
new?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: Well I’m not sure that the bottom trail will be completely in but the asphalt trail will
be done and there’s scheduling on the other, you know it will be walkable. Whether or not all
the improvements will be done, I’m not sure yet. The asphalt trail, that’s the priority for the year
is to be able to open up that walking route again.
Daniel: Are there going to be, is there going to be Class V going across there or is it going to be
kind of natural?
Hoffman: Natural turf or wood chips, yeah.
Daniel: Okay, so just wood chips then.
Hoffman: On the berm?
Daniel: Yeah.
Hoffman: Yeah.
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: Natural wood, or turf or wood chips.
Daniel: Okay.
Gregory: We do have a couple of trees down in Pond Park we’ve got to take, that basically fell
down. We just heard from one of the guys that mows grass down there for us and that that the
trail’s partly cleared and I don’t know that they got down there today. Otherwise it will probably
happen tomorrow or Thursday.
Daniel: Any questions for Dale? Any comments? Alright, thank you Dale. Appreciate it.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
None.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS.
None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Daniel: You wanted to talk Todd about the North Lotus cell tower and the trail alignment along
the south connector. Okay.
Hoffman: Thanks Chair Daniels, members of the commission. First of all before we move on I
want to commend all our staff for coming in. You see them 4 times a year. March, June,
September and December and so they enjoy coming in and meeting with the commission first
hand and they appreciate your input so again thanks to those folks for coming in this September.
Second of all, please take your CIP packet. There’s a…but the original so your CIP, remove
your front cover from that list and save that front cover. That’s accurate. This packet is only
half there so take this and…we’ll get you a new one. The recycling’s behind you. This only…
so you’re going to be very confused… I’ll send you a complete packet.
Stolar: Well you just send an email with it?
Hoffman: Yeah, and I’ll email… And again, this list goes to the council and they’ll approve it
or make changes… Alright, on the next item we have North Lotus Lake cell tower proposal and
this is some location sites. This is existing conditions. There’s some clearer shots but this is
from the north looking south at Lotus Lake and a new playground is located here. This is a light
that is in the parking lot and these are the two lights that are located on the hockey rink. The
proposal here is to put up a cell tower location associated building. We have to accommodate
these folks within our community. We either have to approve their applications on appropriate
private property, or work with them on public property. When we work with them on public
property, then obviously we’re receiving the financial benefits to that, so that’s the preference is
to put these in a public location. This is T-Mobile I believe that’s looking at this site. So there
you have existing conditions. That would be their replacement pole and it’s adding about 25 feet
of height and then the increase in diameter for the pole so that’s one view. The second view, this
is looking, basically if you’re familiar with the park there’s a blue home to the west of the park
and this is basically looking from their side yard or front yard, or back yard. However you want
to look at it. But their view from their property onto the park so that’s the pole location. And
this is the cellular tower pole and then the building also you see where the building would be
situated. This pad is where the warming trailer sits and this is open skating in the winter right
here. And then the last view is the kind of down from the trail.
Stolar: So the light’s at roughly the same height.
Hoffman: Exactly the same height. It’s not, you know other than the diameter, you really
couldn’t tell a whole lot so.
Daniel: Any resident issues at all?
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Hoffman: It hasn’t gone to the public hearing process yet but I just wanted to make you aware in
case you wanted to comment on the proposal or.
Scharfenberg: Are there any, other than the diameter of the pole, is there any other things that
will be added onto that pole?
Hoffman: No. Just at the base there is, nothing else that would be added onto the pole.
Everything’s internal on the pole. That’s why it has that wood so you don’t see the external
antenna towers, their antennas. There’s a little bump out at the bottom where the wire’s going to
the ground and then they come back up underneath the building.
Daniel: So the receivers are built into the pole itself and the pole is the receiver in essence?
Hoffman: Correct.
Daniel: Okay.
Stolar: Isn’t there more than one cell company that usually tries to tag onto those?
Hoffman: Yeah, this will be, it will be co-located.
Stolar: Okay, yeah.
Hoffman: And so planning does not want, there would be a second building but they would
operate out of the same pole. And the land lease is for the footprint of the building. We own the
pole and the next land lease would be a footprint for a building and then the next user would be
able to hook-up to the pole as well.
Campion: Now there is no documented health risk with placing one of these next to a
playground and that kind of stuff?
Daniel: We were just at the Chaska football game and I think they had 4 poles… You know
until you looked up and went, oh. I guess they do have it. And it stemmed by thoughts about
North Lotus as well, and yeah maybe they’re right on the school’s property so.
Hoffman: I’ll add, when this information goes to the Planning Commission I’ll include that in
your admin packet so you can follow it as commissioners as well but I wanted to bring it to your
attention since it is related to our park system. Questions? Other questions?
Stolar: Are there any other people trying to vie for this location or this will be the location if the
city approves it and no neighbors object?
Hoffman: We chased them away for a long time. We tried to find another location. They
weren’t real pleased with this particular situation with the ice rink in the winter, and the access to
the building. It’s not as clean. They need to get there, they’re going to have to…up over a nice
berm and an ice rink and get to the building so they would prefer doing that at a different
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
location and we searched and searched and searched and you’re in a residential area of the city
and there’s no, there’s not a lot of office buildings or. If you go right up around the corner at
101, the gas station has at least 1, maybe 2 there. Same typical looking pole, but it was very
difficult to find alternative sites. We looked at the one over on Highway 101, kind of the DNR,
city property that sits out there in the wetland. Just even worst access than this site. And we
looked at 3 different locations within this park. We looked at both pole locations. This one.
This location and then we also looked at replacing this pole and running the wires underneath the
parking lot and over to a building on the west side of the parking lot but that didn’t work.
Doesn’t have the clear zones for the facility.
Campion: You can’t make them add a warming house onto their building?
Stolar: What about a concession stand?
Hoffman: You know these are, I’m not going to say they’re lucrative but they’re fairly
reasonable you know. You’re talking approximately $10,000 a year more or less.
Campion: In awarding this to them, can we get them to donate then toward the Lake Ann
concession stand?
Scharfenberg: Only if they put up a pole.
Hoffman: This is one of those examples, or one of those circumstances where these are city
properties and this is going to be city money to help, you know we have, not a lot of these. We
have some of them but they’re another source of revenue for the city.
Daniel: So any thought of that $10,000 going to the CIP in the park and rec department?
Hoffman: No…
Daniel: Or it will go to the general fund. Okay. It is what it is and that’s, and I agree. If the city
can benefit from it you know, we might as well take advantage of it. Are there any thoughts, and
if we’re going down this path Todd, are they looking at other sites at other city parks such as
Lake Ann, Bandimere? Well I know they’re there right now.
Hoffman: Yeah, there was one at Bandimere. It’s gone now. It’s been abandoned but there was
one at Bandimere. There’s nothing at Lake Ann right now. There are a couple of other sites.
There’s a bunch of them on water towers across the community. There all just poking around. It
just depends on, the reason they’re up here is they had complaints from their customers.
Daniel: Weren’t getting reception?
Hoffman: We don’t have coverage in this area so.
Scharfenberg: Herman Field. Put up several of them.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Hoffman: Also want to go over with the commission, these are newly planned improvements
come onto the planning. I want to make sure you’re brought up to speed on. This is the
intersection of Lyman and Audubon, the Chanhassen leg. So this is Audubon north and this is
the intersection of Lyman and Audubon. This is that utility building that you’ll notice right
down there, and this is where the road is dead ended at this point. And then when you turn west
you’re heading out towards Audubon, which goes south in Chaska over this way. This is the
box culvert that is currently in place underneath Lyman Boulevard and these are the trails as they
will be re-routed in the north side of Lyman. What I want to review with you today is the
extension, or proposed extension south of Lyman that comes up, out of the box culvert. Back up
along side the roadway. Behind the utility building and then eventually across a future service
road and then over to the bridge that is over in the Pulte division. This trail was not included in
the original Lyman Boulevard project but it is a goal of, City Manager Gerhardt goal. I believe
the council, and now hopefully a goal of the project is to make this project, or this project to
make this connection in time for next year’s school year so these kids in the Preserve, which is
being developed by Ryland, can access, and the families as well, can access the high school via
this trail route. So right now we’re out identifying this alignment with the contractor and the
consultant, the planners, and then we are, we’re working some easement documents. This
property is owned by Lois Degler. The easements agreeing with the additional permanent
easement that would be required and then this little chunk of yellow would be additional
temporary easement. I met with the Degler’s out at, well I met with Lois and her son Gayle last
Friday at noon and we took a look at this. They’re open to the conversation that we do this
easement permits now. But they want to see all the documentations before we go ahead and
make any decision. So the easement area is approximately another 1,500 square feet, more or
less for permanent. The alternative if we don’t do it, until this property develops. When this
property develops you can acquire all the easements you needed to from the applicant as a part of
their development process. Right now if you’re going onto a private resident, private landowner
and saying we would like to put public improvements on your property. Are you willing to grant
us easements that we’ll pay you for to make that happen? If they just don’t want to deal with it,
then we’ll be left to work with it in the future and then we would have to cross at grade for some
period of time. So that’s what we’re working on. If this does, if these are approved you’ll see
this construction start perhaps this fall. We also have a issue that there is currently a crop of $10
a bushel corn on most of this green area so if we tear it down before it’s harvested we’ll be
paying additional crop damage restitution as well.
Kelly: Do you know approximately how much this would cost?
Hoffman: Don’t have any cost estimates as of yet. The easements you know maybe 2 bucks a
foot. Something like that so you’re looking at about $30,000 rough estimate and then the cost of
the trail we don’t have just yet.
Daniel: How long is the trail, 1,500 feet?
Hoffman: I don’t have it here in front of me.
Daniel: So it’s just a matter of either paying for it now and having access to it now, or waiting til
it gets developed, sold one day and then we get it for free.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Hoffman: The easement, yeah.
Daniel: Oh the easement. So all we’re really saving is $20,000. Okay. Or $30,000.
Hoffman: And we don’t have the appraisal yet on the easement…
Daniel: Roughly.
Hoffman: Yeah, you can see always the time we pushed it as far up to the road as possible, but
again temporary’s a relative term. This plan could be undeveloped for the next 10 years and that
would be the trail that we would have so we want to make sure that you know when the property
is developed in the future, that trail may be moved. It may be modified, but it is, we’re
somewhat under a situation where we have an underpass. Some significant improvements on a
road and we have a neighborhood that’s across the street and they’re either going to be going at
grade, running across the road, or they’re going to be able to use this underpass and we want to
get them to that underpass. Ryland Homes is under contract to build the trail to this point. So
the bridge is in. We’ve paid for the bridge and they’re under a development contract to the city
to bring the trail to this point and then we have to pick it up from there.
Scharfenberg: And would Ryland do that this fall too?
Hoffman: Well probably next summer. If you’ve noticed they’re kind of stalled out down there
and we have to, even though they’re under contract, they’re doing very little work and so they’re
going to try to package some work so they don’t have to just come out and do this trail
independent of some other work.
Stolar: Well maybe this is a safety issue that it allows everyone to not have to deal with traffic as
they cross over there. Is that going to tie into other trails and other, I can’t remember now, so
there might be other neighbors. Not just the one across the lake, that could then hook into that.
Hoffman: Oh, in the future, absolutely. Yeah. In the future this is the whole south half of the
trail alignment.
Stolar: So this will allow for anybody to be able to get to the high school then safely.
Hoffman: Yeah. And back and forth. But right now it’s just that single neighborhood over there
and then farther down Bluff Creek Drive is the K. Hovnanian Homes off of Audubon. And they
could choose to come this way as well instead of crossing over at Audubon. So that’s the trail
project and appreciate your time.
Daniel: And more information will come out on that Todd, when do you expect?
Hoffman: We’ll get the easement documents out to the property owners, so we’ll know in the
next 30 days or so.
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Park and Recreation Commission - September 16, 2008
Daniel: Okay.
Hoffman: Those improvements are incorporated into the Lyman project, which is a county
project, and then we pay our share back and trail improvements are on our ledger so. $500,000
is currently in there. We don’t know where all the improvements…but likely be more than this
so. If you remember the original conversation was 500 to a million. We targeted $500,000. We
don’t know where it’s going to come in yet. And the 500 to a million includes the whole road,
Phase II and Phase III as well.
Scharfenberg: Todd in the future, just remind me on Lyman there. Going east from the utility
building towards Powers. Will that, will there be trail on the south side of the road or on the
north side?
Hoffman: North side, yeah. To connect up with the north side of this project and then the north
side of Lyman over to Powers. That’s where the trail currently sits is on the north side. And that
is most likely to be developed with the future whatever, you know the shopping center site or
proposed shopping center site. So when that develops, that hill’s got to come way down. The
road would be built and the trail would go on the north side.
Scharfenberg: Okay.
Daniel: Thank you Todd.
Hoffman: You’re welcome. I think we’re all wrapped up here. Motion to adjourn?
Scharfenberg moved, Campion seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and
the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
31