1991 10 18
CHANHASSENSENIOR COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 18 " 1991
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Chairman Montgomery called the meeting to order at 9:30 a.m..
MEMBERS PRESENT: Barbara Montgomery, Barbara Bragg, Selda Heinlein, Emma
St~John~ Ja~e Kubitz and Sherol Howard
MEMBERS ABSENT: Bernice Bl111son
STAFF PRESENT: Paul Kr~~ss, Planning Di~ector; and Sharmin AI-Jaff,
Planner I
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The agenda was amended to include an update on the
OktClberfest.
APPROVAL O~ MINUTES: Chairwoman Montgomery noted the Minutes of the Senior
Commission dated September 20, 1991 as presented.
PRESENTATION BY PAT PARSINNEN/CASE MANAGEMENT SERVICES.
. Montgomery: We're very fortunate this mor ningtb have Pat 'parsi nnen come
talk to us. She's from the Ridgeview Medical Center and her part of it is
Ridgeview Care Management program. And Pat.
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a
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Pat parsinnen: Yeah, where would you like me to come?
II Montgomery: How about right there. There's a mic there I thi nk .
patParsinnen: Okay. Why don't Igo ahead and pass some brochur~s around~
Thank you for letting me come. I live right in town, it~s only 5 minutes
away so it's really fun to just head on over. Feed my kids breakfast and
head on over. I'm taking the day off today but I definitely wanted tocom~
here ahd meet with you. I have some personal commitments to Chanhas~en '.
living here and also commitments wit~in Carver County and the commu~ities
surrounding that area. As far as our seniors, just briefly to let you kno'w
a little bit about myself. I'm a Social Service Director at Ridgeview
Medical Center and I've been therefor 5 1/2 years . " The longest that! 've
ever been anywhere andit'~ because I like the hospital and I like the
people'!'m working with. I've worked several years with seniors. I've
worked as a Social ServiceDir~ctor in nursing homes before and what I like
about working in a hospital setting 1s ,we can branch out and we can provide
a lot more. We can connect with services within the community. So what. I
decided to develop about a year, year and a half ago is RidgeviewC~re
Management. And Ridgeview Care Management is a se~vice that we provide
where, we will go out to an elder 1 l' orha ndicapped person "s home and assess
their home situation and recommend services to help them maintain their
independence within th~ir home. We 80 not provide the services. what we
do is'we connect the services that are out in the community. Carver County
at onetime had an information and referral line. They don't have that
anymore. There are some missing links within our,communit)i<9.ndwhat we
fe1t',especial1y out in out wes.tern <9.re<9.S, Norwood and around th<9.t a.rea, is
that there's really nobody that would go out to the home and assess the
situation unless they are nursing base. Like a home care program will be
nursing based and they will go out and assess but they're looking at, the
nursing needs. We're looking at home repairs. We're looking at do they /
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Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 -Page 2
have conservaters~ Guardianships. Do they understand living wills. Do
they know ab00t adult daycare. Do they know ~bout home care. Do they need
~ ~e~for companion. Do they need Life Line. We're really trying to be
0ery broad based in what we will look at and then we'll recommend services
to come in to be set up. We may recommend an occupational therapist to
come out if sbmebody's had a stroke and they heed their home made to be
more conducive to their being able to stay there. So what we'll do is
we' 11go out and we' 11 do about a 2 hour assessment. Meefwiththe family
and the elderly or' handicapped person and recommend services. Andupon
agreem~ntof having those services implemented, theri we will go ahead and
contact those services and set them up to do what their job is. At that
point then we. pullout of the program and then within 3 to 6 months connect.
with the clients or the family members .to see how they're getting along. '
That's initially how we're running. . We would cbnsiderbeing more involved
on an ongoing basis but we thought initially what we'd like to do is just
;0 in: Do the assessments and recommend and hel~ set upservices~' 8e
basitally a liason between services and the families within the community.
Whatwe'v~ found is a lot of'family me~bers, middle aged, young, whatever.
They are working. They have families and they're concerned about their
parents. Usually ,we'll get a call because mom and dad want to stay home
but the children aren't feeling real comfortable about ,it. They can't be
there 24 hours a day and they want to meet their parents halfway. What
we're trying to do is to help out so that there isn't a premature
nursing. ..and I think when the problem become bigger and bigger and
children end up ct6ingmost of..:th~n wci really need to do it for our
seniors. It'$ ~ost important to look for the quality of life I think more
thanthequantlty of 1 ife and I thi,nk that's somethi ng that we 'retryi ngto
focus. on with our program. I did go out to California where they've done
care management for quite awhile. It was very interesting to see how
they're program operated at this hospital as welL. I think because we want
the flexibility and are open to, try just about anYthing, ,we hope thaf that
makes it a lot easier for families to connect with us and to feel that
well, the sky's a limit. If you need a window washer, we'll do that or
whatever it is that we, whatevertheser~ices. No matter how silly it
could eVen be. I'm tryi ng tothi,nk if I can think. We haven't had some
real ,off the walls ,one but we're willing to try whatever it might be in
that fashion. . ~~hat we do after we do the assessment and we talk with the
families is wegi0e a written,assessment of what we suggested and the
services and dates listed after that as to when they will follow through.
They also send a letter to the physician so when they go in for their
visi ts there, they're aware of what the plan is. They're aware that .there
are serivesrecommended. We~ve also contacted the clinics and alotof the
community resources in the area so that if they are seeing somebody that is
feeling rea! uncomfortable about how things are going along in their homes,
that, they can recommend a follow-up. We're more than willing to accept any
phone calls ;ifanyone wants to kind of talk over their si tuation and see if
we'rethesetvice that they need~ Sometimes they're calling us and what
they're needing is the alternative care programs or some other progYam and
it's not really LIS. My salary isn't based on how successful this pr-ogram
is. I work for .the hospital and ~.Je're just trying to fill a gap there.
But if we're not the service that they 'need then we ~T'e going to try to
refer them to the service that they do ~eed. Do you have any questions
abou~Ridgeview Care ~anagement and what we can do?
It
Se~ior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 3
Bragg: I have a question. I'm an occupational therapist r~tired and thi~ .
summer rhad terrible health proble~s but beca0seof my knowledge I made my
ow'(l plan and made some contacts and phoned people andafter.about ohA
weeks somebody came out and did a home assessment. With my prognosis I
found that I was already perhaps past needing this service because when I
really needed it they didn't, they weren~t available. But it was Cayv~r
County and ~hey called Chaska. My question.that's a little b~ckground bn
howl got intimately involved in my own care but my understanding is when
the doctor is going to dischar~e a patient that he perhaps does call you
routinely because of the care discharge'plan should include an evaluation
~Yom the social work department where you do look at that.
Pat Parsinnen: In the, hospital?
Yes.
Bragg: Because I think we've seen that. We've gone to SouthShor,e over in
Excelsior and we see somebody that's been very active giaduallybecoming
less and less active and .more and more confused and so I think it's really
important that a senior center offer this kind of a, know that this is
available to them is what r want to say.
Pat parsinnen: Definitely. I think concerned friends and 'family and
whatever that feels there are some concerns there and want to help th~m
outi thatthat's real appropriate referral.
e Bragg: How would it be
e
Pat Parsinnen: Yes we do.
Bragg: Is that the usual then?
patParsinnen: Yes we do. We have what we go is we follow a high risk
screen arildciny patient that sits in that, they can have financial problems,
physical problems,. whatever we get involved so that is a service we do out
of the hospital. How we see this as different is thisisa home .visit and
what you hear arid see frpm a patient can be a lot of times different than
when you go home ffom what you know so.we feel this is, what we're doing in
the hospital is real appropriate but this fs sort of a service thatwe'r.
offering the community and I think most of our referrals would be community
based and not from a referral. In fact we haven't had any that somebody's
gone home and we'll followed them right home to see what they're'doing;
It's been sort of separate to what we're doing in the hospital. The only
reason why we're doing what we're doing is because we've been wor ki ng with
serVices day in and day out and feel we're real knowledgeable ~bout those.
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Bragg: Well as we prepare to have a senior center right in our midst and
people come in 'that are L<Jell like we are, hopefully, butwenotice that one
of our fellow members has begun to show some deficits, would referral from
oui own group be appropriate?
Pat Parsinnen: Definitely. it ~ould .be appropriate.
Senior ~ommissiQn Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 4
__ Pat Parslnnen: Just by glvlng us a call at the hospital initially asking
forme. I'm sort of the one that's heading it up at this point. And then
we' 11 tal k a little, bit 'about the situation and then go from there.
Hopefully set up a time.
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Bragg: Would you liason ~"ith the family because let's say it's a person
that lives here but their family is elsewhere. You know maybe livesoh the
East Coast or West Coast or something cind it could be viewed as
interferring with that person's life and yet it's meantina kindly ~'Jay.
Pat Parsinnen: So the question is would I be
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though they weren't really involved?
Bragg: If somebody wasconcerneq and noticed
somethi ng .
Pat Parsinnen: Well the way you've explained it, if I understand it fight,
itwould.b~ a referral initiated from you.
Bragg: From the center say.
patParsi nnen: From the center a,nd my. thought would be thati n talking
with this person and letting them know this service is available, I guess I
wo~l~ see us working directly with that client at that point and if they
.. gave the okay ,lJ.Je would talk with their family too. Really the client is
the person w'e're setti ng.. the services up for so we really need to be
careful about that. If it was a referral initiated by the family, which
does happen. When people are out of state ~nd they find out about it~
They're relieved to know that somebody will do that for them. Then it
would be a different matter but ~e would have to get their ok~y:
How about costs?
Pat Parsinnen: The cost is $225.00 and that includbs probably around 8 to
10 houfsof our time. That incl0des everything. Mileage. Phone calls.
Sending information to the phi~ibian. rhatkind of thing. What it doesn't
include though, jt doesn't include the services from the other programs.
St. John: Is this the program that Sue Fink is involved with?
Pat Parsinnen: No. That's Ridgeview Home Care. Sue Fink-i~ the nurse
that's been there and that Home Care isa little bit different although
they cange out and do assessments. They may be mainly looking at the
medical needs. We couid go out to s6mebody's home and they may not need
anything medical. They may need adult day care and housekeeper cihd a...
and something like that so we would try to be more broad base.
st. John: Thank you~
Montgomery: Pat, is that a firm price of $225.00 or is there some slidihg
scale or some allowance?
Pat Parsinnen: It's pretty firm because we don't have any financing or
backing with us at this point. My ho~e is eventually we might be able to
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Senior Commission Meeting
October 18~1991 -PageS
look at the Foundatlon at our hospital to help out if somebody~s notable
to ~fford th~t. But if they~renot able to afford thatj there are some
other .resources and things, They call us and that doesn'tlobklike
something they can afford or whatever, we try to help them outa~~0ch as
possible to give them some other options that might be available. When
doin~ a study on this Ridgeview Care Management, before implementing it,
what we found with other case managements and I'm wondering if you'vee0er
heard of Interstudies? They were based out of Excelsior. They did a study
on care management and I used a lot bf their information tohelp'decide if
wev.Janted to go ahead with this program or.'not. The incom.e they stated for
aseni6r that was able to pay for care management program was like ar6und
$15,000.00 a year~ That they felt they could go ~head and afford that so
they must be basing a lot of it on that they have savings or whatever as
well. Our salary or our cost for our'services is on the lower end when we
look a"t the Metro and surrounding areas and what the private care
management costs are. So it's preLty firm on that butag~in,if it doesn't
seem appropriate or what. they're really doing is calling because; they kilow
of one service in the community and they ~re not needing the wholeprogra,m,
then...a.nd that~s happened.
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Can you tell us what service seems to be most in
Pat Parsinnen: It's a variety. I'm thinking of .one person in part.icular:
in Westv iew Acres where we ended qp setti ngup some equipment through
Mobile Medical Closet to make t.he.. .more conducive. We had occupational
therapist help with that. We ended up doing adult daycare. The Life Line
syst.em. Just a variety of things. The situation was, one of our Carver
County volunteers enjoyed getting out in the community and spending 8 to 10
hours"'ofdriVing and his wife was becoming more and'more needy from an
emotional sense and from a physicaL sense and itwasn 't good for him to be
st.aying home all the time with her beca0se he was more independent so what.
we, needed to do was provide services so that he could feel comfortable in
doing his volunteer and so she could be sife in her home. So it was the
LifeLine system and doing some accommodating to the shower . Some nursing
care services. "See what else did we do? Adult daycare. It's just a
var.lety. When we get into it,we find that there's just many, many.things
that. yoU can connect the family and the patients up with.
Montgomery: How about the ages? H~ve you found that one age group more
than another or is this?
PatParsl nnen : 70's. Now we a.reworki ng Tight now currently ~oJi th a gal
that has MSthat's 49 but:that'sgoing to be kind of the exception to the
, rule. On occasion it could be that 'we might do anassessment. and. find out
that we're real uncomfortable with them remaining in their home . Thatwe
mightr~commend a nursing home placement and that's something that we I
think can help out in a real good way real effectively in helpingf.amilies..
Although that's notour goal here. There are times sometimes that that
needs to take place so we'll help them do tho~e steps. That's quite an
invqlvedprocess tob. Going~into a nursing home.
Montgomery: How soon are you able to go out to see
call?
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 .~" Page 6
PatParsinnen: Bar-b, you'Ve got such ~ood questions. You must be kind of
justthi nki ng this thing through. We can respond within 48 hours. "'Ie've
got, I've got 2 full time social workers on staff but I'v~got3 on call
and the ones that would be going out have at least 10 years of experience
1 ike' myself ,;and one in particular alsowor ks for t.Jr ight County Social
Services with the 'handicapped so she's sort of who I rely on when l~vegot
a handicapped person that's under 50 that really knows the services and
t1.Jhat'sout .there..realfwell. So we're enjoying our program. We're focusing
on the quality of our services more than the quantity. Wanting to get the
t'Jord out and let people know we're. there. To respond as needed. .
Bragg: It's good to know that there is a service like that
coordinated with somebody that knows what's available too.
Pat Parsinnen:Oh thank you. And I
t'Je are hospital based and we do have services 'that we can refer people to
that brings us back into the system of the hospital, it is ultimately the
client's decision what they want~ So if we go to see somebody in Carver
County and they want home care, we talk to them about Carver County
Commu ni ty Heal thServ ices t'Jhich isa home care program and we tal kt.othern
about RidgeviewHome Care. And if they want 24 hour coverage which neither
of thoseprogra~s can reallY provide, then we might talk about staff
fillen::::. So it's ultimately the client's decision what services. It's bur
job to let them know what's out there~ I'm excited about what you're ~oing
here. I've really appreciated how I,IJell the paper's kept us abreastbf
what's happening. ~ .
e'
Montgomery: We have too.
Pat Parsinnen: It's great. And. my parents live in Chanhass~n and they're
in their late 60's so I have ape/sonal interest in addition in the
community and seeing how things happen for our seniors. Feel free to call
rne if anything should come up and I can help you out in any
Well ~.Je really appreciate your coming. Thanks very much.
REALLOCATION
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Krauss: . Well they did it. We did get the funding reallocation to. gowi,th
senior community services for the 12 hours per week of time starting I
believe in a few weeks. I think we wanted to start it in November.
Novemb~r-December'~ We have to get them under contract . . So that will begin
and then we can have somebody on board starting, actually it's~eally good
bec~use the~ we can have people start calling and a single individual at
City Hall will disperse information. Will start to then go out and coal est
.with the volunteers and getting programming going for the senio~ center.
Hopefully we might even get some thi ngs goi ng before the 'senior.center
opens so if 'we can find some space for. that ,for some eventst.o happen or
whatever. So that willgetgoing~andalso the H.O.M.E.program. The
volunteer coordination. The sendi ng fol ks out to people's homes so that's
all done. They appropriated the remaining dollars for the retaining of an
archite6t to d6 the construction plans for the center. Using Block Grant
money, I had to advertise that and 1 have to go out for bid. It's been
Senior Commission Meeting
1991 -. Page 7
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advertis~d. I only invited thr~e architects my mail personally to bid on
it o~e otwhom was Jack Anderson whom you've met. The two others have also
worked o~City Hall projects in the past. In fact ,one firm was Jacks~
Qrigi nall>firm. . . I met with one thIs week so we should begetti ngan
architec~ ~inalized pr~tty quickly. .Now I could brin~ the architect back
fOY'youto meet or whoever we have , if you I,.r.Ja nted to i nteY'v iel,.r.J them but it
may take;, with scheduling and stuff, I have to.get City Council and HRA
authorization to enter into a contract with them. If you're comfortable.
If you want toi nterview the person, ,that 's fine. I can arrange to do
that. It may take a little bit longer to do it that t"ay. Otherwise if
you're comfortable t.<Ji th me doing it , we'll just pick ~lJhowe thi nkgives us
the best price and of the three firmst'Je sent out to, I'm' convinced that
anyone of them ca n doita ndthey of course [,oJi II be wor ki ng with you to
desl~n the ce~ter. Whoever we pick is going to ,do that. I'd just like to
get them under contract as quickly as possible and get them working.
Howard: I would make a motion that Paul take care of this.
Bragg: I second the 1TI0tion.
Howard moved, Bragg second~d to direct the Planning Director to hire and
enter into a contract .greement with an architecture firm to design the
Senior Center in City Hall. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Montgomery: Tell me ,again, when is it you expect to have somebody on
board? The one who is to develop the program.
Krauss:' Well wendedto' enter into a contract with Senior Community
Services. With our BlockGrant money, I've got to check my notes;: upste'llrs.
It's either, it's no later than December 1st.
Montgomery: I think that's really exciting.
John: How long dId you have towal t t,hat night before i tcame I:;>efore
Council?
Well that was on relatively early but I think I got ho~e at about
the mornIng from that meetln~. There was a lot of other stuff on.
Krauss: No. There's going to be an interview on that.
something?
Do you contact Senior Community Services and they
or do you interview them?
AI-Jaff:, Sure.' On the 4th or 7th or 8th. We need to select 2 people from
the Senior Commission to interview applicants to i nitiatethe pY'ogl"am here
with community services.
Co~munity Services.
Krauss: They're going out to hire a new staff person for
e St.John: Community Services?
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 -' ~age 8
_ t1ontgomery: There was an ad I noticed in the Sailor.
I was goi ~gto ask you later on when l-<Jould;be < a good date and who
interestediin interviewing for a programmer.
Montgomery:
Friday.
and the 7th is a
What day:was that again?
Al-Jaff~ 4th, 7th 9r 8th of November.
Al~Jaff:
if there are any volunteers.
Howard: I t.hink it should be someo,ne. who's hadexper ience ~.Jith South Shore
Center or sdmething Emma and Betty.
Montgomery: Would ~ou be willing to do that?
Montgomery: How about
interviewing?
How would you feel
<, i <
Bragg: I have my calendar with me. That's what I'm
sure~ I'd be ~illi~g to.
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Krauss: If you'll nominate the two people that you want
coordinate the time~ We'll give.you a call and see what
Bragg: I think on4 would be alright and then maybe one
before.
Jane says no.
Howw00ld you feel about it?
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Heinlein: I guess I could.
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Montgomery: You ok~y with it Emma?
Okay.
Montgomery: Okay, then I would "like to nominate Emma and Selda as
to interviewithe car:didate for the program developer's job.
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I second the motion.
I..
L can't do the motionholJ.Jever.
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Howard: I so" move. I
Bragg: And I second the so moved.
Senior Commission M~eting
Octoberl~, 1991 ~.~age9
"'tI Howard moved , Bragg iseconded to appoint Emma St. John and Selda Heinlei n to
· interview the candidates of Piog~ammer for the Senior Center. All voted in
faVor and the motio~ carried.
Montgomery: . If you i have any problems with yOur schedule, let me
Sharmin know and we~ll go back to the drawing board. And you're
Sharmin and settha~ up or will ~ou Paul?
I
We will contact you.
Montgomeni: Okay ,anything else we should know?
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Krauss: Well there jis something else in terms of financing area. I""e're
going through our bJdgetary process right now and I think you've heard the
old story about the strlngsattached to'the Block Grant money a lot~Now
our first alloc.tiorl when contracting for Senior Community Services, this
is...but we also need to have' it spent by the first of June . They have to
clean up their ledger by then~ We get a new round of Block Grant
'allocations, usually we get the information in April. They tell us how
. , , ' ! ' ' ',. ,., " ',' \
much ~.lJe get and theT) we go through a process . You were here last year t.IJhen
wedld that. Weserid so much to South Shore and we reserve some for
studies and other thi ngs . Well we '11 go through a process I ikethat again.
How~ver, one of thelthings thatcon6erns me is that it's very tough to
depend on the Block 'Grant dollars as the only source of funding because
there are~ofew things you can do with ,it; I am asking the City~ouncil
to allocate $8,000.do t6wards senior programs; That would tend to put it
on a more permanent ibasis so we would have two sources of funding at that
point. Now last year I asked them for $3,000.00 just to get us up and
running and everybody nodded their heads on the Council saying yes, that
was a good idea but ii t never showed up in the budget. But I think that
they'd probably. be~upportiveofi t. I don 'tknow if they'n"going'!::.o
suppor,t that amountibut the concern I<have is you can only usetheprogra,m
guidelines sayyou dan only use 15% of the810ck Grant dollarstmlJards
programs. Everythi rig else you have to buy something~",i th.. And' to the
extent that we only iget $40,000.00 or in the past we did .vJe' reprobabl y
going to get more tHan that this year because our population has doubled
unde)- . the new census;. But when you get $40,000.00 in the past ~14henv4e gave
$10,000.00 of it to iSouth Shore and 'to Sojour,n, we'll we're spending 25% of
our money onprogra~s so we're exceeding that 15% cap. rhat'sokay~f
everybody else in H~nnepin C6unty doesn't ~utit all has to average 9ut.
So I'm concenied thati f~lJe ;reg01ng to be able to fund ,thesethin!;ls on a
>regularbasis, get ~o IrJe have continued strong representation and offering
of services in this 'center and other things , that we need to get some other
normalgene~al fund Icity dolla~s thrown into the mix. So I'mpr~tty
comfortable that th€1y're going' to do that. Also, Todd Hoffman is,asking..
for $5,000.00 and wHat he wants to do with that is to coordinate with
Senior Community Serivices. In fact we 'rego,ing to have the Senior
Community Services ~eison wOTkingout of Todd's office so that we're'
~lJorking togethe)-. . Sut what we want to de is be ablete, Todd's group has
organized recreational activities for kids and adults. I mean that's
always been their ~Harge. Well they also want to st~rt offering services
and programs to seni'ors so they're aski n9 fior, some fundi n9 for that. What
shape it will take, iI don' tkno~'J . It will be coordinated wi th' the Senior
Community Services ~tuff. Whether it'~ low impact aerobics or whethesit's
Senior Commission M~eting
October 18, 1991 - ~age 10
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films, o~ whatever it is. I don't know ~ut they're going to start
tOttJards that. : /
Bragg~ I was going ito ask you a ~uestion if you got into this with the
Park~ and Rec. I thought maybe they could allocate some money tow~rds'
SenioY',programmi ng tille cente~ because of the recY'eational impact on Senioy"s
and having, you know the card playing is recreational. Haven't they helped.
pay for the program~ing at the school?:
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Krauss: I think they may be.
money going way back.
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Krauss: Not to the Ibest of my knowledge.
Bragg: 'So that card .club is fundi ng themselves, is
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Heinlein: The only imoney that Iknot'-l, 1 undeY'stand we get is you turn in
the bi.11for like cLips and things like that but that's the only, as f$.T as
I know, that's the dnly way. They mentioned the other day what our
treasury is. Our income every money i~ $25.00 to $30.~Oand that's the
coffee money. Nobody wants to pay more than a quarter for a cup of coffee
Mhich I think is ridiculous. But I'm not going to voluntee~ my services
anymore. I volunteEjred. They needed volunteers the other week ago and I
said well I t-Jould. IThat was to find something for dur Christmas pY'ogram.
And nothing was 'said that I had volunteered. Nobody else opened their
mouth so I said no fliore. I amkeep5.ngquiet because it doesn't do me $.ny
.good.. . They just co~pletel y ignore a nythi ngI say. .' So now' they've been
told thoughthati f !they don 't like t-Jhere the selection is from, they're
not to say anything.! : Because they all want to go to Chaska Bell or
someplace ILke .that :t'Jhich after last year I ttJon 'tgo if that's where
go again.
St.John: This 15~.:; inow that you said for programs. Will this affect the
donation'toorthe ~upport that South Shore gets?
You know I!90 back to a discussion we had with South Shore a year
ago and I think Barb andSharmin and I went out to lunch I think with JoAnn
Kvern that one time.: Maybe it: was just t.he three of us, I don 't.recall but
there was a basis wHere w~ acknowledged that the ultimate goal was to get a
senior centerinChaJnhassen but to the extent that we can we'll continue
to contribute to .So~th Shore. There's only a limited package of dollars. I
guess inaskingthe!City Council for some direct city funding aDd trying to
get us some morefleixibility~ I don't think anybodyttJants to cut South
Shore off in total qut youma,yt.IJell be faced with, 'if we're going. to hire
Senior Community Serrv ieesto beherf,?, ttJs can't $.lso pay for them at the
same level to be ov~r theretoo~ There's just not enough dollars to ~o
.aroundso .that choic:e is going to have to be made at some point. Not until
next June but that'~ when it will have to be made.
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Howard: Well they h'aveothercommunities as well don't they supporting
them?
St.John: Yes. Bu~ it will hurt.
senior Commission MJeting
October 18, 1991 ~ ~age 11
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Well it wilL NO~\J maybe you can always dance around the head of a
pin. Maybe they need som~thing.Maybe they need a convection oven or
something and im?te~d of giving the dollars for staffing, programming, we'
have more flexibIlity to go buy the oven because that's a capital
expenditure. We have very good. lines of communication with them'~nd we'll.
try to ~ork out the~best arrangement possible.
St. John: Yes. .1 ~as just asking for my information.!
/
t10ntgomery:, TWas thInking too of possible donations that we might
to gei or other fund raising possibilities. Of course we can't get
. that until we know a lot more about where weare. What we're doing
whatle going on but ithat's another.
. ' , . I
St:John: And havirig a staff person ~e~e~ it would be more
that there is sometHing going.
I
t10ntgomery:" We 'veQot, a lot of ~r.Jork to do before we get to that stage and
so I think it's nic~that we have something to get started "'Ji th but
oblJiously we' 11 hav~.to think about the future . Have you heard anything
more about the Foundation? About the tax,exempt status?
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AI-Jaff: The City ~ttorney is handling this. He's filingwit~ the Feds.
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~10ntgomery: Was he ital king t.hereabout. sales. tax exemption brwas he
talking about if do~orsgive money'than that donation is t.ax exempt?
was he talking abou~?
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Md.nt.gomery: I'm surpr ised that wasn't aut.omatic wi th t.he first
Used to be but thin~s Change I suppose. .
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AI-Jaff: There wer~ a lot of re~uirementswhen
,this iS8o~ething t~atmaybe an Atto~ney should
to the AttorneY'aofifice.'I '11 give him a call
~4hat the status.ia oin It. "
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\Mont.gomery: I think! we
as far asraiaing mdney
fund raising ~rcices~ or
, '. 1
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Krauss: I don't know. I keep telling Sharmin that' that's not something
that I know much abb~t. Now Todd Hoffman has experience in that~ They've
r aisedfu nds for variious recreational. faci Ii ties a nd festivals.and things
li ke that. , It 'sa1s:0 something I believe that Senior Community Services
would have some fami~iarity with. I'm hoping that between the two of them
they~an putt6gethe~ their program.
. I
we looked at it.
handle so we sent it back
maybe today and find out
I
need that settled before we can really do anything
is concerned. Do you have any other thoughts about
what direction we shouldgd?
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Montgomery: I'd think Ben l.Ji thhartwould be aiealsource of information ~
He must encounter thas all the time.
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Krauss: Yeah, once iwe have the staff person here for those 12 hour$~ the~
we start goirigarouryd and you meet~r,Jiththe Rotary. You go, to the 'Chamber.
Vou start. rnaking yoL\rselves visible and especially once the dust starts to
flybackthereand~here'ssomething tangible for people to look at.
Mohtgomery: VeT; eJciting. Anything else? Are there any other
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FROM SENIOR COMMISSION SUBCOMMITTEE.
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Bragg: t.Je broke up i i nto t~.JO subcommittees and Icharied the one .
subcommittee on usi~g volunteers and taking Mayor Chmiel's mandate to get
started on this. Emma and I met. Ber nice was out of town and still is
although weputher!name down~This was a product of Emma and I getting
our heads together. ! We wrote-down that there a.eabout 5 steps and there
will be a copy for~buif you like. That there has to be a planning period
where somebody that~s going to take the responsibility for t.his and I don't
think the Senior Con)mission ' sta ki ngthat responsibi 1 i ty. We' resimpl y
advising. And when i the new person from Senior Communi tyServ ices comes , I
think this is somet~ing they should handle. But a definite plan has to
come first and theT~, if Y9U get,volunteeTs you can have them assigned out
toa lot of different community agencies like the Parks and Recreation, 4H,
Scouts, Sch60ls andithe community hospital at Ridgeview is not the only one
in this community b~cause there's St. Francis too that's verya~tive in
this community. Thei City Hall. That one we just put down a couple of
examples a ndr' m su~ewi ththe }1aypr' s interest, there could bea whole Lot
more jobs that could be filled by volunteers. And then the Senior Center
whe'n it gets up .vJil~ use a lot of volunteers. And then the next step after
making a good plan is to recruit people and we felt that very important to
say that a' paid coo~di nator should be responsible for i ntervievJing
volunteers andassi ngi ng them according to their i nterest~, ,And you know
maybe if they're seniors, there are also h~alth problems that you shouldn't
put somebodyina job that's going to impact their health. Then once this
recruitment starts out, you should have, actually a handbook that\l.Jil1 help
with yourt.raining. i vour orientation. They have rights and
responsibilities., l1hey should have goals for' h1hy theywa nt tovolu nteer .
there. They shouldihave emergency phone numbers. There should bean
attendance recoid t~ere so they can get appropriate reward for their hours
that they put in. A brief job description so they know what they're
expected to do and 0hat they're not expected to do. And if the)"e'sjargon
or words that are us:led wi thi n that job, they should be given defi ni tIons
for that. In other!lfJords , if YOUlfJant to have a good volufiteer, you have
to treat-them almost like a paid 'person~ Vou've got to give them enough
information sO they ican do the job and then of course a tour ~houldbe
provided. Somebody ishould supervise arid a good sup~Tvisor knows: what's
involved there. Th~y have to keep the volunteer enthusiastic and that the
volunteer should feel needed. , And again. picki ngwho your supervisors are
going to be. For e~ample if they're going to help out at the front desk.
and answer phone ca~ls, somebody should. be there to say hello and good-bye
at least and theyd~d a good jO,b and we sure thank you for coming because
othen.Jlse a volunteer programisgoingt.o fall on it 'sface. And then the
recognition is the Jast step arid it's very essential also and how you
decide t.o do t.hat iSf up to the person 'that acts on this. I guess I want to
find out from some df you if you think this is adequate information because
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somebody else will ~ake it. These aTe just simply our, we put 6ui h~ads
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Senior Commission M~eting
October ie, 1991 - Rage 13
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together. We decided that this was something tha.t a volunt.eer
should have In ~dvance of sta~t.ing out.
Well B6t~y having been in this before had oodles of information
!
Mont.gomery: I just ithink it's an excellent report. Great guidelines and
simple language' but] I think it will be really useable. I think it's really
helpful. . You dida 1 good job.
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Bragg: L~ell you pass this ,on to the person ,from Senior
or if somebody elSe ; like Shanninif you get stuck L.Jith
information. I
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I thi n~ the t"1ayo'l should have a copy.
Bragg: . I think he should too. It shm.Js we're following
, suggestion. .
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AI-Jaff: I ~I)ill definitely send a copy t.o him.
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Montgomery: Any/ot~er comrnents'on the committee report?
Would you bl interested in volunteering if yoU got a ?rog'lam
spelled it all out like thai? I know that Jane volunteered witKthe
Scouts years ago ri4ht?
Kubitz: Gi~l Sdout~B'Iownies arid Cub Scouts.' All at
. . !
Bragg: So you knowithat once you take on the job,' it can /getto be pretty
ove'lwhelming afte'l ~ while. The'la's so many hours a week and you've got to
be there and 'you're j stuck with everything that goes on. But you like to
know that there's a I structUre and who t.o fall back on and who to call ~I)hen
you have, troubles. ! ' . '. .
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Mont.gomery:Well
abig help Betty.
'Ieport.. First. of
subcommittee? . Do
I I think we have the voice of experience tal king; That's,
~e thank the committee very much. We accept your
all I wantedt.o ask if t.here's any report. from the
ybu have anythint to tell us 'at this point? ., .
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Not at t.his t.ime.
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OU)- Chairmb.n is out of town; She's been gone now a couple
Hei tllei n:
Kubitz:
,
Montgomery: Well in~ybewhen she gets back.
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Heinlein: She shoutd be back sometime thls week I think. Or is it nex~
wee k? I
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Kubitz: This Frida~.
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Heinlein: Yeah, thks is F'Iiday already.
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Senio~ Commission Meeting
October. 18, '1~91 - Page 14
Montgomery: Okay,beca~seI think there are some things that are
developing that your committee will be.concerned with pretty soon.
maybe I;Je can get back i ntouch as soon as she gets back.
MEMBER OF
Mbntgome,"y: You have a letter he're for. I seem to have lost my copy
already. Did you get a copy of the letter? Wait, here it is. Okay.
got a call from them and what Jrealized immediately was that thist.-Jas at
night. Their meetings are in the evening and I asked about ttansportation
and at first they said they didn't know what they could do about that.
r said I thought that would be a problem, possible problemwit.hanysenioy"
who might volunteer for the job. So I thought that ~as something they
ought to consider. And so they did and I think that will help. So
obviously if somebody needs a ,"ide "that can be done.
Heinlein:. I found myself in that bind today. On short notice I'Ve got to
goioto the hospital for tests this afternoon and it was too late for me to
call CART . Good thing my son's got a job ~.Jherehe can sldpoff for a
little while.
t10ntgomery: It's an ongoing. problem for a lot of us and I wonder ,would
any one of you be interested in volunteering for that assignment? They
~lJanttobegi n getti ng senior citizen input i nto their Community Edu.cation
Development p~ogram.I think it'~ a wonderful idea~ I'm all for it.
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Sherol, how about you?
HoWard: I've gat a Wednesday bommitment Wednesday evenings. I'm not
available.
Montgomery: . Either of you be interested?
Heinlein: What are they talking about here? Evaluating existing means...
,
Montgomery: No, that's not the one. There's another letter.
Yeah there is another one.
Bragg: Well if nobody else wants to do it I'll
. District was what, #273? Minnetonka. 27&.
Montgomery: I don't think that makes any difference. Okay
would be great~ Will you contact her or would you like...
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Bra~g: Well whatever~ It's Lip to you. You can say I have
Mdntgomery: Alright. I'll g~ve her a call. I think that'8great and I
.thi nk you'd be very good at that. sort of thing but I think it isimporta nt
beca0se i~this community educat{on is something .that we don'~ know much
about.
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Bragg: Well I'm intetested.
ofi:)
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18~ 1991 - Page 15
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And we can really tie that in with the center. I just think
foot in the door and I~m glad that they asked us.,
Yeah~ yOU can evenget'some classes taught at the centet.
Montgomery: And if we could get a transportatioDsolution~you know
they~ve never thought of that ~ that. would be greata,ndI think that might
bi something we could work on.
No~ but wouldn't it be nice to go s6meplace in
St. John: Well Bome of those classes woul~ daytime.
transportation wouldn't be such a big problem then.
Or it'd be nice, if they'd come here with regular transportation.
Bragg: If they could come here~ once w~ get our center
something ,her'e .
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TO THE, PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION ON
I can't go to the
I'd appreciate that. I sure want to
AI-Jaff: On October 22nd Todd Hoffman, Director of Park and Recreation
Department II-Ji 11 be presenti hg to the Par k and Recreation Commission
basically the background of the Senior" Commission and just ki ndofbrinQi ng
them up to date as to what has happenea from the time when the ,Senior Task
Force started. Also to ask them permission to start programming for
seniors when the center is up and running. So we're going to do the same
thing we did with the Housi ng and Redevelopment Author ity. Paul ~mysel f
and hopefully the Senior Commission would be present at the meeting. That
will be again on the 22nd. It wi II fall on a, Tuesday. Right now weare
the fifth item pn the agenda but r spoke to Todd and he said that they
would move us up. So 7:45 we would probably be presenting our case to the
Park and Recreation Commission. If anybody needs rides~ I'll be more than
,happy. '
St. iohn: That's next Monday night.
Ohit~s Tuesday.
Tuesday.
That's next Tuesday? I can go. Who else would like to go?
Montgomery~ Let's have som~
Emma?
Hiinlein: I suppose I could.
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Senior Commission Meeting
OctoGer ~8,1991 - Pa~e 16
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St. .:fohn:
Yeah.
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Montgomery: Okay, good. I think that~s important because I
great link and Todd has beeD just great. He's really worked
whole way. That's really been abig;plus. We can certainly
If anybody needs a rid~, please let me know.
I will. I always need a ride.
Al-Jaff: I r~member what happened last meeting. Housing and Redevelopment
Authority meeting. After we were here and looked and Betty wasn'~ at the
meeting and I thought, did Betty ask mci to pick her up and I forgot and I
wa~ all panicky. '
Heinlein: ,As long as I have my quarter I have my ride but I neverkriow if
he's going to be available either.
BY COMMUNITY SERVICES.
Well you're an awfully good 'taxi service Sharmin. Wecouldn't
d.o without you. But really though, that has made it possible for us to
participate. I couldn't have done it without you. And I don,'t think
people understand that that can bea real barrier. It's a terrible
barrier. I'd liketo'get back to that sometime too. We need to get
to working on transportation one of these days.
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Br~gg: Get a subcommittee because that's a way to get
Montgomery: I think so. That works pretty well.
Adele Meta: Well thank you. " I'm really glad to be here and especially
ju~t after the vote that provided fu~di~g for Senior Community Services to
be working with you in Chanhassen. It's a pleasure and a priviledgeboth.
I~mnot givin~ aformalpfesentation. Mostly here to give ~ou an updat~
and to answer ariy questions that you might have. As Sharminand Paul told
you and you've already worked 6nthat, we're moving toward hiring for that
coordinator position and that's, the way that ~enior Community Services does
that in other communities as well,as we work with other'communitiesin
terms of the hiring process so that everyone is happy that the person is
q~alified and can work well with people in the community. So that is well
u~derwaywith the inter0iewing schedulds that I have set up in e~rly
~ovember. Incidentally I should introduce myself. Adele ~etaand I'm
Program Administrater with Senior Community Services. Jo Ann and I both
r,eport to Ben Withhart. "That'ski nd of how we're set up and there's a
third program admi nstrater t",ho's the financial director for the agency.
there are four of us who form theadrriinistrative 'team and that's how we
together. So that you know. And Jo Ann is out of town at the Senior
Center Conference sO she's not able t.obe here today. So that's pretty
"much what 'shappenirig t.Jith gett:ingthat. staffing up and running. Then to
give yoU a little update on the H.O.M.E. program and 1 have some flyers, or
actually they're justa rough draft of the flyers. I'd like you to look
them over and maybe make any suggestions for changes before we st~rt
distr ibuti ng these. This will also hel,p refresh everyone's memor, y, ,a,bout
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SeniorCommissidn Meeting
October 18, 1991 ~ Page 17
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exactly what it ie that the H.O.M.E. or household and outside maintenance
for elderly services does. Th~ fi~s~ is maintenance and you see the types
of services that are provided under that. Largely within the house arthe
outside lI.JOrk. Repair work thaLneeds to be done. We have a Skills Bank
worker who:i Geen hired for thi~ are~ who can ~ork in this area and also
some of the volunteers whov.J.ill be working with the program can helr:> wit.h
some of these things as well. Then homemaking, general housecleaning,
laundry, ~rocery shopping, meal pr$paratio~~ those are service~ that the
homemakers provide and we're'!n'theprocess of hiring a homemaker for this
area. We'll start with one and se~ how that goes and if we need more help
we'll recrui tthat but; we're projecti ngthat initially one homemaker. would
be needed. And then finally the seasonal chores which of course might be
uppermost in our mind this time af year as we s~e the leaves gathering
arouhd.the house. And not long after that 'the snow removal so that is
something that we w~ll need volunteers for and we will be working with
Sharmin and Paul in terms of recruiting those people and providing training
for them and a H.O.M.E. staff person does that. The recruitment and you
already! have, as I understand it, quite a few very capable volunteers who
, are willing and 'f"eady t.o provide t.heir services and we will be in need of
those people so the training will be set up as soon as we start. December
1st is our start up date. So I think I'll just stop right here and ask if
ther~ are any questibns?
1 miss something? Who ls eligible for this? Anyone over 65?
Right. Or actually I think we normally
Ho~ard: This has nothing to do with income?
Adele Meta: Right. Except to remember that it is
for those who are able to pay.
That was my next question about the co~t~of it.
The way this program has been set up, from the beginning.
Do you have a scale of money per hour?
Adele Met.a: I don't have it with'me. There is a scale however, .yes. And
some of the seasonal chores, if they're done by volunteers would be free to
the person as well.
Thank you.
Adele Meta: It's quite a ,there are qui te a few stepsi n the scale so
,there aresever~l levels for ability to pay. And because of the success of
. t.he program in south Hennepi n, wef ind that t.hese are services which . people
are most willing to pay for. Si nee they' , re already paying for them by and
large already in terms of their. .
Well they've been available
Montgomery: At South Shore.
Jan Gray?
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Heinlein: Yeah"r ight.
Bragg: Elaine .Evans.
Right.
Howard: But you read ab6ui homes being painted for free.
have needy programs too.
Adel~~eta: That definitely. The paint-a-thon fotexample is so~ething
that the H.O.M.E.program cooperates with so for people who are financially
eligible for that program, .wewould, if somebody called in or whatever and
said -that we actually recruit clients for that or try to find people who
are/eligible for that program.
That's right under your community services.
Adele Meta: H.O.M.E.does it. Yeah.. Any arm of the agency but H.O.M.E.
actually ad0ertises in their newsletter for people who might be eligible
for that.
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Montgomery: I think one of the things I've observed in this aiea~n
Chanhassen is that people are very relunctant to ask for help. . They want
to do it themselves and they will go too long without services ~eallY. I
think we'tegoingto need to do a good job of making it okay for people to
use this.
Howard: I think there's a misapprehension. Very often 1 saw the sign on
the.lawn about alarms. iSmokealar~s and I assumed it was for people in
financial need to get them ind I think most people who read about theie
services will assume that it's fo~ the needy so Ithinkwhehpeople are
made aware of it, this should be emphasized that it's for everyone. Not
just f6rthose with low ~ncome.
Adel~ Meta: That's a good poi~t. Maybe that's something
something that's on the flyer.
Howard: I t~in~ it should be because everyone assumas it's only for those
who cari't afford other ones.
.
M6ntgomery: You have to be absolutely starving
really low income and I think it keeps a lot of
avaIlable.
St. John: That is not just for this program like H.O.M.E..
congr.egate dining. People have the same perception of that.
everythi ng.
Heinlein: Everything to dO.wIthcommuliity Ithi nk
needy basis. .
Howa~d: Ido too.
Serior Commission Meeting
Octobe~ 18, 1991 - Page 19
Montgome~y: We'll have to wo~k on that somehow.
B~agg: Maybe a newspape~man can get that story out.
AI-Jaff:. The newspape~ has ,been doing a wonde~ful job.
The newspape~ has been doing a wonde~fuljob.
What happened to the~enio~Page this last two
Well we got a lot. We shouldn't com~lain.
Heinlein: That's, thefi~st thing I look fo~.
AI-Jaff: The~e was the Block G~ant ~eallocation.
Yeah, I sa~that.
B~agg: Excuse me fo~ getting off the subject. :rthi nk we~eally have to
thank t1~. Lahpeck fo~ an awful lot that has gone into the pape~ the last
cbuple of weeks dealing with senio~s and nic~ly o~ganized and I especially
enjoyed the Yeti~ed edito~ f~orn.Chaska w~i ti ng that a~ticle on .
reminescence. I think th~t was ve~y, ve~y good.
_ Kubitz.: Shou.ld we give him a ~ound of applause.
Heinlein: And I don't know, did everybody see that Ba~ba~a gOthono~able
mention as. a senio~citizen? It was in yeste~day's pape~.
St. John: I' haven 'tgotten it yet. Ou~s is alt1Jays late.
Montgomery: It was through Dlst~ict 112. They have so~e
achievement awa~d. I was ve~Yembar~assed. I don't know
the~e.
Heinlein: Be~nice ,and I got ou~heads togethe~. She was th~
started ~it. And then we talked to Tom and he thought it'd be
I
Montgome~y: I didn't think I should have gotten it. But I
the~e. I'wasgoing to go to the meeting and I couldn't get
didn't have aY~ ide. This is the sto~y of my life.
B~agg: I think Adele knows about all these things but we
subject and you a~e on.
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Adele Meta: No, this is allve~ype~tinent.. One of the othet things I
~t.Janted to just run by this Commission is that the Senior Out~each program
which we hadp~oposed as pa~t of the, as one of the components in the
package from Senior Community-Services and the~e wasn't enough money for
that available this year is one that is , I'm hoping it 's going toii t into
possibly .ome g~ant monies from State. Being able to apply fo~ that. Now
they're saying, that the seven county met~o a~ea is not the area that
they're ta~geting the most 4nd so the possibility of getting the funding is
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Senior Commission Meetin0
October lS, 1991 ~Page 20
perhaps not too bright but one can't e0er pass up a~ oppottunityt6apply
for funds if they are available. ' And so what I would like to do is write
inChanhassen aDd Excelsior for 'the Block Worker program which would be
very similar to Senior Outreach. I'm going to piggy back on the good job
that Pat did earlier in talking about case management because that's what
Senior.Outr\each does and it does it without cost. I' think .when Y9utalk
about ~eopl~not havin~the will to pay 25 cents foracup~f coffee, which
was mentioned earlier, it's hard to imagine that people will\l-:lantto pay
$225 .00 for, services that they rflight not even see that they need. Again
talkin~ about what yo~'ve raised before. ,It'~ usually the people ~hat need
I the services the most who are least Ii kely to want to pay for that,
especially for a servi6ethat doesn't provide the service but only talks
about what are the possibilities. .,.1 n that package of service. . ,And I think
it's a very important part. of a center ,to be able to h$ve the. ability to go
a little farther wi thpeople than the well elderly. ,when people start to
have difficulty, be able to help them ~ith that. And aa you know from the
Excelsior experience, there is~'ta Jot of time for that. There are just
too many demands with the center itself to be helping people individually
with some very complex .,' problems.' And Excelsior has had Senior .Outreach
active with that center for many years. In fact some of the 1,OSS/clients
t.hat Senior Outreach served last yearwele f,omChanhassen.Theyhappened
to be South,Shore participants and so that's how they got served by that
proglam is that it was~vailable th,ough South Shore. And~so I would
like, with Your permission to try to get some funding for the area. r
don't know again what the li kelihood of actually ,ecei v i ng those funds
would be but the program has been in existence for 14 years~Westarted in
Hound and have spread throughout all of suburban Hennepin County in terms
of pio~idingthose services. And as I mentioned I think at an earlier
meeting, the proglam received it's fifth exceptional award from the United
Way of Greater Minneapolis for the work it does. So I have no qualms about
commending the proglam to you and ,if that would meet with y6uy approval I
would like to writeChanhassen in it.
Oh, I think that's wonde,ful. That is really gleat.
St.John: Isn't that the program that Rosalee Fallap was in when
worked at South Shore? When she was doing her internship when we
Adele Meta: Possibly. I'm not sure if Rosalee was an intern
program. I think she was doing some Outreach work but.
St~ John: Is that a different O~treach that you're talking
Adele Meta: You could call it kind of sneaky title. We started off
program calling it Westonka Counseling for Older Adults. Well you c~n
imagine what a turn off that was. And as it spread of courseWestqnka was
not a good label to have attached to the program. But this program is, the
r,eason it's called Senior Outreach is that it goes into people's hqmes and
works with them in deciding what kinds of services would be helpful to
them. Explaining to them what kind of resources are ,available and putting
together a,package that bestdfits their needs. So the Outreach part is
actuallyt~lkingaboutgoing into people's homes but the service itself,
actually the !meat of the program is bounseling and, case management. .1
would add that the counseling part of that is not for people who are crazy,
senior .Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 -Page 21
II
like some people think of but rath~r working with people over some of the
barriers that they have. For instance we're talking about people who need
help but don '.twantto accept help because they want to be extremely
i noependentand so on and what we try to do is help them to refrain that
and aee that as receiving some services can help them remain independent.
Those people whorefuae services are unfortunately often end up with the
results that they're trying to avoid. They end up in a nursing home a> lot.
sooner than somebodytIJhowill accept ,services that are appropriate . .. So
that kind of counseling. Working with the family and.neighbors of the
person ~scounseling as well. Trying to get everybody working together
toward one goal. Helping the older adult client. I think Pat's poitrt
about who the client is is very important. That person's central and
that's person'sl;Jishes and desires are upper most in trying to get everybdy
to work towards that. And if those goals that the person has are somewhat
unrealisti~, to counsel the person about what some alternatives are and
~hat some results might be if they continue in the vein in which they I
started. So counseling is not sterrible word at all. It's a very helpful
wordi" this sense.
Adele Met.a: Well I am not sureexact.ly of your process
appropriate to ask from you. Any sUPPort that we would
would be.very helpful. .
Adele, would you. like afecommendation from us or
Maybe I could t.alkto you about that and see 0hat
Ie
Adele Met.a: And then having that person locally based. Being
with t.he cent.er and answer questions as well as to work fairly intensively
with a few people. Kind of have a whole spectfum of services that a p.rson
like.t.hat can provid~.
Howard: When you say you serve all of Hennepin County ,is there no such
thing in Carver County?
Adele Meta: Not community based as t.his program is.
~rogrambut there's also a county ~rogram in Hennepin.
I t.hi nk, weren't you mention-ed that. Bett.y?
There is a county
A program in Carver
8ragg: : Yes. I called because I'm a resident of Carver County and rhad
somebody come out and do ~ home evaluation and a financial st~temetrtand
all that and then she didn't have anybody. They just simply didn't have
anybodyt.o send t.o take care of my needs.. But she kept me in mind. and when
they did get somebody, she broLight her out and brought her through my house
and showed her what. I needed done but. ~ said I'm almost. th~oughneeding
you. So that tIJasn't, and I don't know lrJhat the problem is on your side.
Maybe you don~t always have somebody available either.
i
Adele Meta:.Well tIJe don't have through the. Senior Outreach program 'again
and thatts justa linkage system in a quite ~ophisticatedlinkagesystem if
you will because you have a lot of, as I say interactive and compl~x things
goi ng. on wi th.someone for instancetIJho has had considerable illness. There
might bea lot of financia.l considerations. There might be several
e
Senior Commission Meeting
October 1~, 1991 - Page 22
programs that they should be applying foY that would provide them totally
free service. . The. living will and energy assistance ands whole variety of
things that the person rnightneed.. W~th the H.O.M .E. program however, that
would bea program that could provIde some inhome, homemaker, counseler,
whatever again on a sliding fee, scale. In SOme cases that might be free or
lI-Je mightwol.k~iJith the County progY'am in providing that. But at least in
HennepintheY'6 aY'e some social services available for people but because
SenioY' OutY'each is community cased, a lot of, times I think our response
t,ime and know! ng the commLini ty more thoroughly have helped in getting
services andagai n theY'e's no Lack o'fpeople who need seY'vices ~. ,
8Y'agg:,Actually to go back to my situation. I waited and waited and
thought well maybe I should tUY'n it oveY' to .$outhShoY'e and 1. thought
should but then I was also, on this Commission and I thoughir should
peY'shst i nthis to find out. what Cha nhassen has to go through. . So that's
why I persisted. Othen-Jis,e I would have turned, because] think joAtJn
would have plugged me Y' ight into the services that I needed'. I thought
,well okay]'!l just use this experience to help our center dO a betteY' job.
That's very inteY'esting. Test it out.
It
MontgomeY'Y: In ~ wa~ I did that with this invitation to this community ed
all-Jard thing because! called the PY'esident of the Bank and said thank you
0ery much but I can't be theY'eb~t I a~preciate the gestur~. ,And he tried
to get a )-idefor me. He tried 6 diffeY'ent places I guess to get a ride
and he had to call me back and say, 1"m sorry. And I thought that was
wonderful because I think tha't'swhat we ~eed to do.
If you'd like. Did you have'questions on that?
I,don't remember. I can't read this little print.
Adele Meta : Well this commission seems to me really has been a lightning
Y'od collecting a lot' of eheY'gy from the atmosphere and diY'ectingitto the
needs of seniors in the community have a. nd it's real 1 ystarti ng tot:a ke
shape now and hopefully there will be an increase services. SharnHnand
Paull know have both been working very diligently t.o try and rfla kethat
happen. We've been just really pleased with all of the haY'd woy'~ that's
been done in Chanhassen. .
Montgomery: Well we've certainly had .ome wonder~ul
apPY'eciate it.
AI-Jaff: Well you're wonderful to work with.
Montgomery: Does anyone have any more-questions either about what's on the
. flyer or what the services would be? Did We ask ~nymore about your ad for
the, I can't remember the name? Program developer.
-
Bragg: It says for SenioY' Citizens Center, 12 hours a week.
suburb. Degree and/or work experience.! Resumes due October 30th. SenioY'
Community Services, ,1600 2nd StreetSo~. Hopkins. And it's title.is
Program Developer. ,So would you .look for someone with asocial wor k
backgrou nd? Somethi ng 1 i ke' that.
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 23
--
Adele.Meta: I would say for the center, although it's amazing you know the
kind' of interdisciplinary~ you know we try not to limit that for the center
fOrSeniO'r Outreach.. We need licensed social wor kers for that program but
for the center' ,no. t.le would just be open to whoever has the ..' ... !
qualifications. And as I say, there are some surprising b~ckgrounds that
might enter into th.at so we ..don. 'twant to limit that right ..off the.ba.tand
,-', ,
say this has to be somebodyfro~ a Pa~k and Recreation background or
whatever. And I think the reason that the word developer was selected, and
I'm sure if you were a part of choosing that word or not. '
No. i
Adele Meta: Is to indicate that this is not just running
You need someone who has some ve'r"Y special abilities that
running a center. You need to start a lot of programs.
8ragg: WouLdn't ypu also have to provide some training for that person?
Because if they've had some other service like iti it's still unique.
Adele Meta: Ohabsolutely and 30 Ann will bel/Jorking very closel)! with
that person. She will be the person who provides that. '
Montgomery: Do you do some preliminary screening? r don't know how ~any
applications there are.
e Adele Meta: My understanding is, and I haven't talked in detailwit.h Jo
.Annabout this but. r think what usually happens is that we'll go through
t.he resumes and.throwout t.heones or conversely select the ones that we
w'antandthrow out the ones that are less8pplicableto that job, TheYe
might_even be an initial yound of screening that ,goes on before the
combined committee gets together to interview the final applicants. I'm
Dot sure what that process 'would be like but cert.ai nly thef i nal selection
is made together. It. will save you a little bit.
Montgomery:. Sometimes you can get 100 a.pplications oy
never, know.
Adele Me,t.a: And some of the ,applicant.s
for unemployment. benefit.s or some ot.her
t.he job and not. qualified for t.he job.
applicat.ions.
are just. going t.hrough the motions
reason and really may not even want
Or just. kind of sending out. mass
Al.:.cJaff: J.o Ann did ment.ion t.hat t.here would be t.wo int.erviews ~ Thafi rst.,
round, t.he, ent.ire committ.ee would be there and t.hese6cnd ,round it would.be
I guess Communi t.y .5erv ices only.
Adele Met.a~ ,Senior Communit.y Services?
e
(.ljl-..Jaff: Yes. Where t.here will be some specific questIons t.hat.would deal
l/JithholN you would provide t.he program on t.he 4th, 7th or 8th. Any day we
choose, That'day. The entire day will be spenti nt.erviewi ngapplicants,.
St. Jbhn: The ent.ire day?
Al~Jaff: Yes. You will be inte~viewing
wiIt bea break for lunch.
seriior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 24
e
AI-Jaff:
The entire day.
Adele Meta: This isn't all of the applicants either.
AI~Jaff: You mi~ht :be looking at 10 or 15.
Applicants?
Adele i"1eta: Iagreei..,ith Emma. . That's on;e of my least favorite Jobs is...
I thirik that's extremely exha0sting work.. .thatis really the way of coming
up ~ith the best person for the job. This kind of format of having the
agency doingtheinterviewi ng and people from the communi tyand thep,gency
, together interviewing has really been a good .combination~ I~'s gott~ri
really fin~ staff people in the.past... '
, - "
It
Montg6me~y: Well w~~re really glad you're doing the
with. That certainly simplifies it. That's great.
anybody have an~ more questions~ '
Adele Meta:" Well thank you so much and if you have . any questions ,you ha\/e
our agency.number and you've.got the H.O.M.E. nUmb~r. You couldt~lk.with
Betty Crouch. She was here at a previous meeting. She's the Director of .
the H.O.M.E. p~ogram and she could answer any specific questions 'you might
have.
the numbe~.
Where should I get back to you about some kind
us?
Adele Meta: I'll meet with you.
'Okay, thank you.
You wanted an upd~te?
Montgomefy: Yeah, I. was just going to say. Sharmin t06k.care
Oktoberfest booth and I thought maybe she'd like to fill us in
on. How it looked.
It
AI-Jaff~ Selda was there. Also Bernice came. It was really nice.
received a lot of positive comments~.. The younger.. generation waS very
i nter.ested in the concept and a lot of people commented that this is a
\lJOnderful thing to do.. They looked at the concepts that weredevelopt;'.!d.
you remember Con,ept AandB..~\je had that on a board and it was presented to
anyone~ho was passing by~We got probably 20 or 30 seniof citizens that
passed by the booth. We were hoping for more senio~s but maybe next year
we would advertise it better or hopefully when ~he ~enior centeri~ up and
running we would get more seniors shawl ng up at the festivities. But it
wasnlce . Again, posl tlve remarks from everybody that was there., The
citizens that did come by the booth mentioned thattheycan~t wait
senior center" is open. So that was wonderful.
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 25
AI-Jaff:
Heinlein:
I don't recognize a lot of them. I wouldn't be
I didn't.
st.John: Were they outside of the club or outside of that?
that cam~ and made these remarks. Were th~y from the?
AI-Jaft: No. They were in the community. Veryint~rested.
I didn't see very manYc;>f our seniors from
Montgomery: From the card club ybu mean?
,Heinlein: Yeah. I don't \think, if there were any. Not while
I know that.
It's good to know there are others that are interest~d.
Did you have any ~ther comments Selda? Any
Heinlein: The only ones that I really
church that were surprised to~ind all
AI-Jaff: Some of the people that stopped by the booth asked if they can
have that information to give to their parents
moveintoChanhassen. They have been thinking
Chanhassenso Itho~ght that wasCinteresting.
excited about it.
Heinlein: I think we tried t6do our l~vel best to give them the
information. We cowered them whether we wanted to'of not. One fellow had
gone by about 2 or 3 times and finally came back and 1 said, well don't you
have a mother? ~e just looked at,me. He staftedlookingatthethings and
he picked up everything that was on the table and took it with him. Andhe
'didn't lay it down because 1 saw him later o,n. He was still walking around
with this information. '
You sure will and you'll get there
Al-:Jaff: One gentleman picked up the brochures
that I am not a senior yet.
Heinlein: When you said you know to 160k at the material, ~'m
yet. I almost said,~ell you'ye hoping to g~t there I hope.
Montgomery: You'll get there someday.
e
AI-Jaff: I also wanted to mention that Jerry Ruege~er from the Park .and
Recreation Commission as well as myself went ,to the Senior Expo at the
Convention Center. It was, I haven't(seen that many senior businesses in
one place. They /packedthe place. It, was amazing how many people were
Most of the information that was presented, I'd say therewe~e
Senior Commission Meeiing
October :1.8, :1.991 - Page 26
~bout 100 booths at least that we went through.
overv~helming. I brought brochures on everything and Barbara came to City
HalT last Wednesday and we went through the information. Just sort it out.
The table was covered with infbrmatlon. We had a section that wa labeled
trips and recreation and that will go to Park and Recreation.. And when
the p)"ogramrner is' hired for the senior center, then it would be something
that t.hey can look at. There was a section on heal.th. We also had a pile
for future speakers. But one thingthatt realized after we went through
the information is we know about most of that information. . Weare really
doing a good job keeping o,urselvesinformed as towhat is going on around
us as far as services that are availeble to senior .citizens in Chanhassen.
Bregg: I went to the Senior Options OVer in st. Paul about 2 years ago
I had the samefeeli ng. They had a banquet that this. man who's on 60
.Minutes,the crumudgeon on, 60 Minutes. Wh~t's his name?
Montgomery: Andy Rooney.
e
8ragg: Andy Rooney was one of the speakers and Alice Faye who was a senior
movie actress came and gave a talk. It was a lot of fun to see all the
people that are seniors that are still active and women are still
beautiful. So it doesn't. make you feel so badly about being 1;~hat is
considered at like .theend of the spectrum.. It can be kind of de pressi rig.
So I thought that the Senio~' Options had a lot of kind of publicize .what's
happening with the older geneTation~ It was ilot of fun. But I didn't
want to go again because there was a crush of people. You can't beLieve it
until yougq.
Al~Jaff: Definitely. Everybody was so full of energy. I mean it was jUst
beautiful. It really was beautiful. It gives you a different look
Bragg: There shouldn't be, the impression people have that all.seniors are
bent OVer and walking with canes. They')-e pLaying golf and they'r.e playing
tennis and they're.going dancing.
Al"-Jaff: Everybody's so active and it really
. just wonderful. I'm very glad that I did go.
Montgomery: Sharmin and I w~re thinking that it's not too early to start
thinking about what fancy thing we'~e 90ing to do for that weekln Mayor
the month of May for seniors.
Yeah.
Older American's Month?
,
AI-Jaff~ One of the other items that I wanted to discuss
are your goals fat 1992?
e
Howard: When is it projected that this center will be Yeady?
Can I give you an answer next meeting?
We could have a grand Opening.
e
-
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18,1991 - Page 27
Bragg: We part.icipated in the pr.og-ram planni ng. for the grand opening ~.Jhen
the senior center moved from the elementary school in Excelsior to the
church and I got a hold of a. lady who's 84, a puppeteer,iTtarionette person
and she. r went in and got here and took her home again. 'Transportation
youknow~ And I tell you, that woman was an inspiration. She came out. She
set up her stage. And if you could,see her from the side,'she was going.
She'd pull the ~urtain and she'd. ge~ up and down and move and she had all
these str 1'ngs. She was so actilJe that! felt exhausted with what you've
done. Can T help you you know? No. No.' She was putti ng thi ngs in the
i boxes and so she's boy. I;thought that the. show ~r.Jas her~ I know that mos.t
of the people that sawthemarIonett'es thought that the marionette show was
great but for me it was watchin~ her.
Kubitz: I think theopeni ngour . the center should be our big thing for
next year. Whenever it might be.
AI-Jaff: I thlnk when the architect has been selected, one of the things
he is going to have to give us'is when he will have the. work completed. So
that ~ould give us a better idea. I would be able to answer you then. . SO
by next me~tingwe should have ~n answer.
. J10ntgomery: Good. 'I saw the RFP in the paper too.
Bragg: The what?
Montgomery:
The requests for proposals,so that's already
AI~Jaff: Yes. and 6ne of the letters that l g~ve you. I handed out
That's the request for proposals that ~ent out to the architects.
e
One thing r think you should be aware of is that we haven.t asked
for any ki nd of food service.. You know no congregate di ning. . And as such
we/ve kind of aced ourselves out of things that naturally cor~e out~ When
you have congregate di n1 ng you have. people that you si t~\ji th and yoU can
watchthernwith their deficits. Like the f)"ail ,more frail people So if
you don't s@e them that often, you always see them wearing a different hat
than that. You'"(e not going to be as a~'Jare of the needs.
Howard: When you have the eli ni ng you also have people
before and after functions.
Bragg: Exactly yes. And there are' jwst cert:ain thi ngsthatwi th
congregate dining goes just kind of caringfof each other. And if you just
come and you're there to play cards or if you're just there for aprog'f'arn
or just there for exercises ,'you don 't allrJays get in on the fact that. ."
somebody is feeling very confused or you know, the little things they share
with you over a cup of coffee and your meal.
St. John: Well those people wouldn't come...
but they wouldn't come for ,any of the others.
AI"'"Jaff: Maybe that's something you could look into at the
want to expand or when you are expanding the senior eenter.
e
'.8ragg:
So once we get our foot in the door we put our elbow
Senior Commission Meeting
'October 18, 1991 - Page 28
And that 's when }'OU ~"ill have your study conducted by Judy. Or
whoever would be" selected. That i'Jould be somethi ngthat the person who
does the research for the senior, center, the free standing seniorcepter,
one of the needs that tt1ey tAJould look at 'v.Jould becongregatedini ng.
If they do abandon or change libraries, wouldn't that give
you had both, of them?
The librarie's not very happy about it.
Howard: Well, there's talk of moving the library isn't
AI-Jaff: Definitely~
And then if we could also have the library , ~"ould'n'tthat be
If it's a possibility, we should take it into account with the
~"e make.
St~ John: ~ec~use some of the changes; things that they're putting in
there now aren't going to be adequate for that and then there'd.beanother
change that we'd have to make.
We'll start crossing it just as soon we
Montgomery: Well maybe we can cross that bridge
One day at a time.
Montgomery: But sometimes the advance planning can
time though. Maybe that's something we can talk to
thereJs any possibility that th~twould be any time
'Bragg: You know I keep harping back to what BenWithhart said. IthQught
it 'ssuch an easy thing to remember and it's so important and that is, the
gr~yfng'of the suburbs,. The people that ca~e to the booth that didn~twant
toadmitthatthey'r-e getting to that so called graying but I think that
once you get a place and lively program and so on, that they'lIsee
themselves as well there is something for m~ and I want to stay here.
Because a lot of our ver-y vital people have moved to Eden Prairie and.
different places that have housing and all that. So we're looking at a
t.Jhole ofd! fferent things that could happen to this coromunity but v.Jeha\le
to have sort of an .awareness that develops. And I'm happy ,to hear you say
theav~areness because I know a couple of years ago r came over to
nktbberfest and was in a booth and I think we only had about 5 people that
werer.eally to identi fythemselves as seniors that came by and at least you
have mOTe. Some of them didn't '~"ant to be and weren't identified
seniors but at least they were getting infor-mation.
e,U-Jaff: Yeah, quite a, few people did come.
St.' John: Can I just make a comment about South Shore v.Jhen they started
with their center and,then to make lunch available? They did it through
Senior Commission Meeting
October18~ 1991 - Page 29
e
the school lunch because t.he ki tchen ~\)as right t.here and t.hat. did not go
over. It wasn~t until we got.intOthe congr€ga.t.e dining that things picked
up.
Montgomery: We can profit by t.hat. experience too. Well t.hat. is something
t.Je. l;.Jant t.okeep our eye on then is l;~hether there are any prans for library
expansion or 'moving or what.ever.
AI-Jaff: . r 'Insure in the future there ",Jill be.
t'10ntgome,"y: It. might. not. be any sooner t.han we ~\)ill be sitt.ing on our own
fOr a free standing center. ldon$t know~
e t1ontgomel"Y: About what?
AI-Jaff: Senior housing.
Mont.gomery: Ohreally!
~~e should i nqui re anyway.
Montgomery: Surci. r: think we should.
Howard: Chanhassen was far sighted in putting inbot.h ~ewage and wat.er
the same time and those communities that d~dn't spent twice as much.
~1ont.gomery: ~~ell lots ofgoodsuggest.ions are out..
to mention. I've been getting
in t.he communi t.y as ki ng about. senior housi ng .
AI-Jaff: A ldt of people have been, I don't. want. to say a lot.. I'Ve
probably gottenS ot 6 phone ~alls ~ithin the past month,~hich is something
we nover had before.
I got. a call too on that., Did you too? I t.hi nk Shorewood ~as
doing a study and they have Judy l;~o'rking with ,them and there were people
that were asking, well does Chanhassen have any plans for this? I said not
to my knowledge at the present time.
When t1.Jas ,fhe
Mont.gomery: That's on
Al-Jaff: And I've been asked if I know of any vaeancies in a~artments.
Which one are handicapped accessible" Which ones have elevat.ors<.
They're doi ng thei I" own case management..
Montgomery: Do you haVe that information?
e
\' ..
Al~Jaff: Ye~. Yes I do. The only thing I can do is basically mail them a
copy of the apartment. buildings. The complexes in Chanhasseriand,t.he
contact person. It's asutvey that the City did of all the multi-:-tenant
buildings.
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18, 1991 - Page 30
e
We update it once a year'so it is an accurate.
Is the large new apartment
you could recommend it to seniors
awaiting list.
8ragg:l.Je'1-e sort of winging it now and we're getting a
information. I
Heinlein: Well I think the senior apart.ments, t,hat
inoome an8 I,imaginethere would be a waiting list for
building.
AI-Jaff: . I believe, I'm not sure. Do not quote me on this. I believe 10
o~ the apartments are subsidized.
--
. Al ;..Jaff:
No.
It's low income.
Yeah, there aren't too many.
Kubitz: Ar~ they designated for seniors?
HeInlein:, It's low income. That 'sthe only thing t.Ji th that.
sl?ecificallY for seniors. In othe'( wo'(ds a young women can go
she is lo\.t~ income, even if she had a 'chi Idor two and I
some of those because I se.ealot of si ngl'e mothers going in
child. Never see them with anybody else.
, .
Kubitz: I know a waiting list, Windemere in Excelsior is mainly se6io'(s
and the w~iting list moves pietty fast because when there are a lot of
se~iors, ~e'(y often they have to go to a facility. They can't maintain the
apartment 0'- they move to bell-Jith ,their childr,en or something so the
waiting list moves pretty fast.
Montgomery: I thinkSharmin was s~~gesting tHat maybe we
goal set.t.!i ng and Ithi nk that's true and I 'mflot sure ho~oJ
about that. .
AI-Jaff: One o~ t.he things we've been t.alking about., 0'( I have been
talking about forever it seems is a direct.ory~ I've gathered' all the
i nformat.ion. I have st.art.ed to get it i nt.o t.he'computer but. what I \.AJould
like to do is, contact Carver County and see if they can just give me the
disk that has all, t.he information on it inst.ead of me sit.t.ingand t.yping 10
pages.
tit Mont.gomer;y: It. looks like they have an updated list. of
AI-Jaff: Yes; I wil~ also contact. Hennepin County and
In Chanha8~en~yes.
the seniors in
Senior Commission Meeting
Ootober 1B~ 1991 - Page 31
I thought you h~d a senior directory.
That~s South Shore.
AI-Jaff: For services that are
blu&one you're talking about?
Howard: One time I asked and you
Chanhassen.
Seniors~no. The directory would .have
offer~d to resid~nts of Chanhassen.
HO~\Jard: h see.
Montgomery: We had one that came out from
Hennepin County.
Shore but
Yes. So maybe we can combine some,of the services
in that brochure~",ith t",hatCarver County offers.
were talking about a senior directory of services
Howard:' Which could be combl~ed with a' directory of the seniors who I1ve
here. Wouldn~ttha.t be a good idea?
-
8ragg: I think you ~ Ie already on the way. Ithi nk
wonderful goal. Something tangible.
Al~Jaff: You mean names?
Yes. Combine the two with ~he spctidn for
We could do that. I don~t want somebody ca.111n9 me
you call me a senior. I'm not a senior;
You do have a list of seniors though?
Yes We do but it's 55 years and abov~.
Hel nlei n: 55?
a touchy age. Do you want
I wo~ld think so.
Mbntgofuery:' Yes.
]
Montgomery: Then we can have it available at the senior tenter.
ourpreliMtnarycenter'or whatever you call it if we start some
programming.
.
A I-Ja ff.:
Anything elae? What-else would you like to look
Senio~Commission Meeting
OctoberlS, 1991 - Page 32
Mont.gomery: I'd like to look into ,t.ransportation. It sou rids like )Iou need
about the housing. If we're going to do some t.ypeof ~urvey.
Mont.gomery: Yeah, and where'~ the money going to
of thing? If we'):'egoing t.o do that.
AI-Jaf~: 50 you want t.he study conducted?
I Howard: Is t.hataseTvi~e? A survey?
Montgomery: Well I don't know.
AI-3aff: . The study.
Is that a service oris that, itis i~n't it?
Yes. Let me doublechec~ with Paul.
Howard: That makes it mbredifficult to allocate.
Kubi tz: vJhat percent can you spend on services?
AI-Jaff: I thought it waslS%.
e
Montgomery: Maybe we can get some grant.s somewhere.
Ade Ier1e ta : . . . Hast her e been any d1 seLlSS i on ''''J i th Ben
Because so ,much would...' That's what Paul said.
r10ntgornery: ~\Jemay have i ndicationof' that in the
somewhere but I don't. remember ~xactly.
Al'-Jaff: Actually a study would be somethi ng 'that
M6ntgomery: Is that a thing or a service?
AI-Jaff: I think it's a thing. I'll check with Paul , yes.
housing is one of your goals for next. year.
Bragg: Maybe that should be on our agenda for each one of us to bring a
goal t.hat ~"'e would like to see us do and have .that early oniin next month's
rneeting~
Heinlein: Why don't you put grocery store.
Kubitz: What's happened with the plans for the
AI-Jaff: We should know today. At least that's
e Kubitz: Is it still supposed to be Festival?
AI-Jaff: Yes.
Senior Commission Meeting
October 18,1991 - Page 33
'.
t1ontgomery: Did they get .a fourth;person back irj,~<Jhat was that
. .
AI.-Jaff:
out...
.
Well, on the 17th which w~s yesterday they were
,
(The tape ran out at this point in the meeting.)
Submitted by Paul K~auss
pia nning D1 rector
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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