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PRC 2002 02 26CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2002 Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Jack Spizale, Mike Howe, and Jay Karlovich MEMBERS ABSENT: Jan Lash, Tom Kelly and David Moes STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Karlovich moved, Howe seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated January 22, 2002 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 2002 WEST HENNEPIN COMMUNITY SERVICES ADAPTIVE RECREATION SERVICE CONTRACT. Mary Perkins: I am Mary Perkins and I'm the Director at West Hennepin Community Services and for those that are new, you sub-contract with us to provide adaptive recreation services for the residents of Chanhassen. You are part of a consortium of 13 different cities that provide adaptive recreation through what we call the consortium model. And you are in a group of west and south towns, and we call it the West Area Adaptive Recreation Consortium, and West Hennepin also has another group in the northwest part of Hennepin County, and we call that the Northwest Consortium. So Jerry asked me to come in and to just give you a little overview of the agency and then Tara who is our Therapeutic Recreation Specialist that works with your residents can explain a little bit more in detail about some of the specific things that we do. And then if you have any questions, feel free to ask. West Hennepin Community Services is a service center. We are considered a community support program and we work with people with developmental disabilities and their families. And we have a range of services that we provide and recreation is one of them and recreation is our most important service. We consider it kind of the front door of the organization where we meet the most people so we have our greatest number of participants are within the recreation service. But once we cast that net and we get acquainted with people, then we also have some other services that we can provide them. We have mental health services so that people who have some mental health concems, who have children who have behavioral problems can come to us and we have a licensed psychologist and two other mental health practitioners that can work with them. Now that mental health department is also available to the recreation department so if there are participants in a program who are acting out or who have some other troublesome behaviors, our recreation therapist can access that psychologist and she can help devise some behavioral interventions. In addition to mental health we also have an education and outreach department. We try to help people leam skills, particularly around independent living, so we have a number of trainers that go into people's homes and apartments and train them in basic living skills such as how to cook, how to shop, how to ride the bus, how to find a doctor, and other kinds of basic skills. One of the skills that we offer is recreation and leisure skills. We believe that recreation is a critical component to a healthy life and a quality of life and so part of what we also off'er is a leisure skills training and we can do that in your schools. We can do that with other park Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 professionals, and training other professionals is part of the service that we offer, so what we hope to do is to spread our knowledge and so if you have general park and recreation staff`that would like to be trained in how to provide some adaptations or how to deal with puzzling behaviors that might be linked to autism or other kinds of disabilities, our professional can help with that training as well. And then we have an outreach service where we go out and locate people who may be isolated. Sometimes people with disabilities are not hooked up to services and so they may come to us through a referral from a teacher let's say or perhaps even a neighbor, and we have an outreach department that will go and locate them. Try to connect and then try to get them hooked up to services or supports if they need it. Then we also have an advocacy department and that's me, and so if people come to me and they have needs that are not readily served by what's already available, then I try to help them locate those services, or maybe if they have a bigger issue I would send them perhaps to ARC where they can get a group of people together to do some advocating. And we work closely with ARC Hennepin-Carver. That's kind of our general overview. We try to be very client driven. We are grass roots in our orientation so I tell the staff; if you want to know who's in charge around here, then look to the clients because we want them to guide and direct what we do. I'm the Director so I try to keep it all within a budget. Just a few words about the consortium model. What it is is that we have a base fee of $2,000 that cities pay to join the consortium and what that does is provide access to all the resources that I just mentioned, plus people can participate in our adaptive programs of which we have a wide variety with a resident fee instead of a non-resident fee. We have probably 15 to 20 different programs going in any given quarter and we run on a 4 quarter system and the quarters run for 9 weeks. And then in addition you also get the inclusion services where if someone wants to be in a program that you already off'er, like a playground program for example, then we would provide adaptive staff; if needed, to attend that program with the individual. Or if they just need some pointers for a coach or something, if they have fairly good skills, then we would work with the coach or whomever it might be, playground leader, to assist them in making a few adaptations so that individual could be included. The rest of the fee is based on the number of participants so, because you're relatively new, the fee's relatively small because we don't have a lot of current participants, but Tara can tell you the word is getting out and we've just been contacted by Carver County and apparently they have hundreds of people so, I don't know. So I'm going to tum you over to Tara unless you have any basic questions for me and then she can tell you more the specifics. Franks: Well let's hear from Tara first and we'll probably have some questions later on so. Mary Perkins: Okay. Letmejustgiveyou. Tara Parker: We have some signs and brochures. Our spring newsletter... Also my card. Like Mary said, my name is Tara Parker and I am the Assistant Director of Recreation for West Hennepin Community Services, and I work specifically with the west consortium which is Hopkins, Minnetonka, St. Louis Park, Chaska and Chanhassen. And I'm going to give you just a little bit, the newsletter's going around here right now. I'm going to give you a little bit of an overview of our specific recreation programs we have going on right now. As well as what's coming up in the spring. We have some exciting things going on this spring which I can't wait to talk to you about. We have a variety of different social and recreation programs for people, adults and children with disabilities of all ages. Also all levels of ability. We have different adaptive sports. I'm sorry, I don't really like to talk into microphones. I like to yell. I'm sorry. We have a variety of different adaptive sports for children and adults. We have basketball, softball, soccer, karate, either a walking group, bowling is one of our very popular groups, as well as our social groups. For people who are, with large disabilities as well as people with higher functioning disabilities. We meet one day during the week as well as weekends and this is a chance for us to kind of get out and meet people. And like Mary talked about, we also offer inclusion. And this is one of our most important I feel programs and Chanhassen has actually been utilizing this program very well because this past summer Chanhassen has had 4 different participants in your park and rec programs. There were 3 in the 2 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 playground and 1 in t-ball where they requested one on one. And also this winter there are 2 people who are in basketball ..... basketball program where I went and I gave the coaches some tips on different ways to work with the children with disabilities. A lot of times it's behavior issues. A lot of our inclusion, you can't tell their specific disability just by looking at them. Like Down Syndrome or mental retardation. A lot of them is autism. ADD...things like that where you can't exactly pinpoint the person with the disability and a lot of the kids in the program don't realize that these kids have disabilities and they need help. They just see them as somebody who is, has poor behavior problem. So that's when we go in and we provide one on one. A lot of times parents don't even tell the coaches about their children's disabilities, and that's where we go in. Kind of educate the coaches a little bit about what is...well you can expect this from your child in your program so that's really helpful. We have annual events. Different banquets, sport banquets, things like that. At the end of a, like a basketball season we always have a party, our banquet at the end where everybody gets a little certification and we hand out awards. Also we have...which are very popular once a month. Well at least once a month. We have sometimes 1 or 2 a month and we get like literally, the last time we had.., over 150 people, participants so if you add in all the staff and parents, things like that, it got, it was really crazy and it was really wonderful and they have a lot of fun at dances. And here in Chanhassen we have our annual 4th of July picnic which we hold every summer at Lake Susan Park and people really look forward to that in the summer time. It's a great location. We've been lucky to be able to use it. So all of these programs really benefit, are really beneficial to participants with disabilities for many reasons. They're able to socialize. They're able to meet new friends. They are able to function more independently with their serves and the community, and it also increases their physical fitness. A lot of times people with disabilities don't get out as often as they'd like to and they don't get to exercise, so our programs, and a lot of them are over weight and so our programs really help them to get their exercise in for the week basically. One of our things that we're trying to work on right now is getting some sort of a fitness program together where we do different weights and things like that because there's a lot of participants who came to us and said you know we'd really like to get healthier and.., some education on nutrition and things like that so that's one thing that we're going to start as well. And Chanhassen, as Mary said, is involved in what we call the WARC, which is a West Adaptive Recreation Consortium and like I said, it's Chaska, Chanhassen, Hopkins, St. Louis Park and Minnetonka. What we do is we get together and your representative from Chanhassen. We get together once a quarter, so it's 4 times a year after each quarter. Spring, summer, fall, winter, and we kind of talk about you know what worked really well that quarter. Neat things that are coming up and it's also a time when we get together and we talk about specific problems. Behavior issues. Problems with parents. Problems with stafl~ Education of stafl~ Training of stafl~ Things like that, so since our past WARC meeting it's really been a goal of mine to get more people involved in the west, especially Chaska and Chanhassen, in our program because we know that the need is there. We just don't how to pinpoint them. I know we've gone to the schools before but it really hasn't done a lot of good. So now what we have done is we have...been fortunate enough to hire a new full-time recreation staff person, which is really great because Barb Larkie, who was in that position before me. I started this position in September and that was at the same time that I started this position we hired somebody for the northwest, and so we have somebody for the west, somebody for the northwest but Renee, who is our director, she was...northwest and now she oversees us both. So it's really nice because we're really growing. We're really, you know a lot ofprograms are filling up quickly and it's nice to have, you know somebody who doesn't get into a boring program and that's the only thing that they do. It's the only thing that they look forward to...now we can say well now we have this new program that we have. Maybe you should try this out. So that really helps us out with new programming ideas and as far as this spring goes, a few things that are exciting for me, because I'm really, like I said, it's a goal of mine to help the City of Chanhassen, and help. Well both of us help each other find the people that we know are here and that we know need our services so one of the things that actually came upon to me was a group of mom's who's daughters are involved in the Minnetonka School District. Two of the moms actually came to me, who are Chanhassen residents. They came to me and they were concemed because right now we off'er a Westem Explorers and it's a social group of teenagers for Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 kids 13 to 22 years old, co-ed. And the moms, a few of the moms came to me with an idea for this new program called a Girls Club where it'd be specifically designed for girls ages 13 to 17. And so what I've done is I've developed this program and it's going to be starting this spring and I'm basing it out of this area. A lot of our activities that we're going to be doing, it's going to be based out of Chanhassen and Chaska area because that's where the moms are from and moms talking to other moms you know, and hopefully we'll be able to get this big girls group together and I know in May we're going to have a picnic at Lake Susan. Hopefully we'll be using the rec center a lot, things like that. So that's exciting. And then the second thing that has Mary received this letter and she did talk about the letter from the Carver County. Basically what it says is, that they're working to expand the network of developmental disability services in Carver County and so they are seeking proposals from providers, such as West Hennepin, to provide services to fill identified resource gaps, which one of them is recreation. So first of all what they say is they have developmental disability student has 261 open client cases and 141 of those on waivers. And so 261. That's a lot. And they also say that they're anticipating 50 to 60 new developmental disability cases to be opened in 2002. And most of those are going to be children with... So what we have done is we have written up a proposal for Carver County and basically what we did is we duplicated programs that we already had going in Hennepin County that are working really well, and we have this proposal written up and we're going to, Renee and I who is the Recreation Director, we're going to be meeting with the person in charge of all the social workers in Carver County. We're going to go to them with this proposal and hopefully we'll get things running. I'm just going to tell you a little bit about these new programs that we're going to propose. There's 3 of them. One of them is called the Rainbow Kids Club. We have it going on right now in Maple Grove and it's really popular. It's for 5 to 12 year olds who have developmental disabilities. I'll just read what it says. And the program explores various recreation and educational ideas through a different theme each week. These areas are explored using fine and gross motor play, sensory activities, crafts and music. And Rainbow Kids meets 2 aftemoons a week for a total of 4 weeks after summer school is over. So hopefully we can get this Rainbow Kids Club going in this area and have it at like the Chanhassen Recreation Center or the Chaska Recreation Center to get more people in this area involved. And we also are going to be proposing for a program called Out and About, and that is a program that operates special events on Saturday to address children with disabilities. Out and About encourages socialization and explores recreation opportunities in an individual's own community. The group takes a field trip on Saturday aftemoons 4 times a year and a typical staff`ratio is 1 to 3. Previous activities included the Children's Museum, swimming at the community center or a fun day at the park. And the last program that we're going to be trying to start is what we call a Sports Sampler and that's going to be a 6 week program that's going to be meeting one evening per week and participants will be exposed to a variety of sports, soccer, basketball and floor hockey and basic skills will be taught and games will be used to practice and gain skills. As always fun and game participation is the main focus so we're going to be...hopefully all these things will go through and we'll get a ton more people in this community so. And another thing that I want to do that I haven't, that I just kind of started right now is I want to make contact with group homes. Go to group homes. Find out what they want and actually provide these services within the group homes so, sorry I talked very fast but.., any questions, I'm sorry. Franks: Tara, before we get to questions. I guess Jerry, I'd like to hear what stafl~s input is. But I'd like you and Mary both to be available to the commission for any questions we might have. Ruegemer: Tara and Mary really did cover a lot of things that I was going to really address the commission with tonight. Working with West Hennepin and it really has been a very rewarding program for us as well. And really to have West Hennepin really at the end of a phone call to help with inclusions and advice and staff`training. We had them out last summer to help with our playground staff`and if you looked in your packet, that was really the information that Barb Lemke went through with our playgrounds that really heighten awareness for our staff`to be assistive to some children or help. It really helped us out a great deal. It's been nice for us to have them as a resource to call. Really you know 2, 3, 4 weeks in 4 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 advance, 5 weeks in advance or however much time we have. Tara then will come out. Assess the situation and if there needs to be one on one or some advice given to a volunteer coach or an instructor, that's been a wonderful assistance to us, and that's all part of our contract. So really beyond that, you know like Tara and Mary Sue, we are kind of getting more and more established in our area with additional programs. And now with Carver County maybe coming on line, that's another way for us to kind of network even more and we constantly continue to meet and publicize, whether that be brochures or flyers, you know try to get out to the school districts or the county so we really are kind of working a lot of different angles and really a lot of it's going to be taken up just kind of word of mouth. Parents in the area are getting together and talking and more and more are finding out really more about the service here. We can only keep our fingers crossed. It will continue to grow and that certainly is what we're striving for and with Tara and Mary, they're really offering new programs and it's a great service for us, and at a very reasonable price. So it's my recommendation that we approve the contract for 2002 for the amount of $2815.00. That was budgeted in our 2002 recreation budget and in my opinion it's a great value. Franks: Jerry, before we open it up to commissioner comments, is there anyone else in the audience that would like to address the commission on this issue? Alright, seeing none. We'll open it up for commission, your comments and Jack, we'll start down at your end. Spizale: I also think the fee sounds very reasonable. How many people do you think you're actually serving like last year? Did you serve last year. Is there a way to put a number on that or is that pretty hard? Tara Parker: As far as our recreation programs go, there's only like 1 or 2 people but our inclusion, there's like 6 or 7. Mary Perkins: In total we serve about 500 recreation clients last year and overall about 1,300 people were served... Spizale: Okay, that's all I have. Franks: Jay. Karlovich: The comments that I have is just your presentation had so much energy in it, if it was $28,000 I'd have to vote for it. Anyone who has that much energy to do good things for some disadvantaged people I'm behind 100 percent. Franks: Okay. Mike. Howe: It seems to me we've gone over this before that our participant numbers are increasing and we're starting to call on West Hennepin more for consults. It's good to see the increases and I kind of agree with Jay that it's a program that we have to have. These people seem to be doing a good job. That's all I have. Franks: Okay, thanks Mike. The only other question I would say is, Jerry you mentioned the training that was provided to the recreation stafl~ Was that included in our contract amount or was there additional fees that were paid for that kind of service? Mary Perkins: That's in your base 2000. Franks: That's in the base 2000. So ifwe recreate that kind ofprogramming into the next year, that would also be included? Well it sounds just like a well rounded and complete package that we're getting Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 all the way from training and staffto actual direct services to residents in this area. I know I voted for these services over the last 3 years and I don't see any reason to change an idea now. Are there any other comments from the commissioners? Karlovich: That will take like a motion? Franks: Yes. Seeing none then we'll move forward. Is there anyone who would entertain a motion? Karlovich: I'll make a motion that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the 2002 contract with West Hennepin County Services for their adaptive recreation service program in the contract amount of $2,815.00 as provided in our packet. Spizale: I second the motion. Karlovich moved, Spizale seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the 2002 contract with West Hennepin County Services to provide adaptive recreation services for children and adults with developmental disabilities in the contract amount of $2,815.00. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. Franks: Mary and Tara, thank you very much. We look forward to working with you next year. Mary Perkins: Good. Well thank you so much. Franks: You should see us on a bad day. Hoffman: Who seconded that? Mike seconded? Howe: No, Jack did. REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL FOR NINE LOTS, TWO OUTLOTS, AND RIGHT-OF-WAY WITH A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR A PRIVATE STREET ON 7.59 ACRES OF LAND ZONED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, RSF, LOCATED AT THE END OF KNOB HILL LANE, METRO AREA r, ro PROPERTIES, KNOB HILL 2 ADDITION. Public Present: Name Address David Slotten Mike Brandes David Smith Todd Steward John Knoblauch Diane Wyffels 6401 Teton Lane 6411 Teton Lane 1341 Ashton Court 6471 Yosemite 1450 Knob Hill Lane 6421 Teton Lane Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Franks: Questions? 6 Park and Rec Commission Febmary 26, 2002 Spizale: No. I guess being on the tour, you know I got a pretty good feeling where it's at and what we need so. Karlovich: I have no questions. We're going to take comments later, right? Franks: Yes. Just one that I have Todd is, is there any possibility to secure an easement through purchase or whatever of that little comer of the Steward property just to complete that trail segment? Hoffman: Mr. Steward is here this evening. I don't believe he has a desire to sell an easement to the city or to see that connection made at this time when he owns the property himself so. Other than that you have a choice of condenming it, and I don't think for a little neighborhood connection we're going to ask the City Council to proceed with condenmation. Franks: The only reason why I ask if it goes in on the plans that that easement exists for a trail and the homeowners see it and they realize that just a few feet away from where that easement ends they could gain fairly easy access to a neighborhood park. We might be getting some comment on that right-of-way SO. Hoffman: You may get some requests at that time. Mr. Steward can comment on that as well. Franks: Sure. That's all I have. Mike, anything? Howe: Yeah, if you didn't build that trail, the altemative to get to the park would be to go out to Lilac Lane and then up Teton and then through the cul-de-sac? Hoffman: Go to Yosemite and then around actually. Knob Hill comes out on Yosemite, not over to Lilac. Karlovich: Might as well stop at Pheasant Hills then. Hoffman: Yep, it'd be closer to get to Pheasant Hills. Howe: Okay. That's all I have. Franks: Alright. Seeing that there's no more questions for stafl; we'll open it up to public comment. Ifthe applicant is available and they'd like to address the commission first, we can entertain that. John Knoblauch: Good evening guys. I'm John Knoblauch, 1450 Knob Hill Lane. I actually was one of the property owners and I developed the first section of Knob Hill Lane. I live on this lot right here. On the northeast point of where the temporary cul-de-sac is now. I regrettably have gotten involved in this Donovan parcel. We've had a divorce there and it's kind of a bad deal, so we're in the process of dividing it up unfortunately. Because of our crazy land values, there hasn't been a lot of choices. He wasn't able to sell it to an individual. As far as this obviously proposed trail, I'm not in favor of it. I don't think it's a huge benefit to my development. If anything, it probably hurts that one lot obviously on the end of the street. The area that it would service is pretty minimal. Actually my north line is the Hennepin/Carver County line. Might get some people from Shorewood down on Yosemite and maybe a few people coming that way but most of the people on 63rd and south of us go over to Pheasant Hills. Creek Run Trail might, that's probably that street might get some use out of it and, but the amount of people it would serve would not be gigantic that I can see. At least in Chanhassen. You may get some Shorewood people. As far as the biggest concem I have is the liability issue really. If you've been down that trail, I've tried twice to go down that trail on my bike and not doable so, I think the grade is about a 4 to 1, on Steward's property it's 7 Park and Rec Commission Febmary 26, 2002 about a 4 to 1 slope so it's a pretty severe bluff there. As a matter of fact, staff`engineering has actually abandoned bringing, originally they were going to have a stub water and sewer down this line and I think after they walked the property they abandoned that idea so I think that's pretty much not going to be done now. Or at least that's the latest on. Did somebody else talk to staff`about that? Yeah. It's a pretty severe valley in there. The bottom of the valley that eventually bleeds into Curry Farms Park is at about 1,009 elevation. I believe my lot that will be adjacent to this trail is at about 1,034. So it's about a 25 foot fall. Pretty much into the middle of this end of Steward's property. So the only way I would be really in favor of it, if it was severely improved somehow and the liability issue we get off` of Tom and my back as far as guardrails or improving it somehow which I don't really know with the grade there how that would be done but, so that's really my concem. The only other question I kind of had was the 20 foot width. I don't really know if it's a 5, what's your regular sidewalk, 4 foot? Hoffman: Well trail is 8 feet, but in these neighborhood connections they've gone down as narrow as 6 feet or even a 5 foot sidewalk. John Knoblauch: And snow removal, you usually figure on the sides of how much do you like? Hoffman: We would not perform snow removal on this trail. John Knoblauch: Okay. So easement, 20 feet is just basically for keeping the options open or just. Hoff`man: Yeah, a standard easement for constmction...over the long term. John Knoblauch: Okay. Yeah, I'd like to see if you're behooved to approve something like this, I'd like to see that 20 feet shrunk down just to keep the thing a little more isolated in there. For the minimum use that it's going to have, I would think that would be fine. To even go, I don't know, 12 feet or 4 foot, you know 5 foot, whatever you're going to do. Even if it's 15, just to have less problems there for the neighbors, for everybody really. So it's a little more controlled so you don't get the less traffic obviously the better but, so the bottom line is, if I'm not a big fan of it, I'm not going to like you said to these guys, I'm not going to get an attomey up here and try to cause a lot of problems with it. I don't think with the Steward property, development possibilities, I think it's very unlikely that that connection will ever be made. Tom's got an area to develop near his home but anything within, I don't know, 100 yards of this thing probably would never see a home or anything like that so. His driveway is a real cliff`hanger kind of on the other, the far side over here, and then this home is actually closer to...so that's all I have to comment on. Thank you very much. Franks: If there's any other members of the audience which wish to address the commission, please state your name and address for the record. Dave Slotten: My name's Dave Slotten. I live at 6401 Teton Lane. Right in the comer. I guess my lot's probably the most affected by this proposed easement. Basically I understand on the surface why you're proposing this and it looks good on the surface but I think when you look at all the facts and everything, really the perceived public benefit of the path is probably outweighed by the negative impacts on my property. My current situation now is, I've got the path on one side, which is fine. When I bought my house I knew it and it's great. My back yard's currently private. Backs up to woods which is going away, but it has been private. The only thing that looks over the fence lately now has been deer. There's some hardwood trees right there. The proposed easement, I think there's probably too big oaks and a basswood right within that. You know it'd be a shame to have to cut those down. Basically if this is approved and a path is there, basically people would be walking down and looking down on my back yard from my deck right now, there's nothing back there. I think on the, when I was reading the proposal, it kind of insinuated 8 Park and Rec Commission Febmary 26, 2002 that there's a natural path and people have been already using this in reality, when I talk to my neighbors too. I don't think I've ever seen anybody come from Knob Lane or through that. There's been kids playing last summer since the property went up for sale. Prior to that really there was hardly anybody in those woods. And honestly that path going down is so steep, you can't go there if it's icy, rainy or there's leaves. I went in there this fall, if you walk, the leaves are slippery. So basically anybody that uses the park has to go in from the south entrance. Especially for bikes. For people that walk or possibly walk a bike down it but you don't take it up. So I would say probably, I would say 90-95 percent of the people that use that park go all the way around the street and come in, so this shortcut I really don't see it. I do think it would have a negative impact both on my property value and privacy. You know some people wouldn't mind it. I think personally my wife would. I'd probably have to spend money to put up a fence, which I really don't feel I should have to. The other thing is we're looking at, I believe the house that's going to be built, is probably going to be somewhere...right over in here. I don't know if that's going to be like 30 feet off`the line. I'm guessing it's at least, if you put the easement, the possibility of putting any kind of trees or border or buffer is going to be restricted. Actually I was hoping and possibly if that house in there...try to keep up some buffer so they're not looking in our upstairs window from their house. Time will tell. I guess that's about it. I mean I really, if the, another option that I guess I'm thinking, if they really figure there's a need to get to these parks, and I don't know if anybody's even thought about it but you know right now the driveway going into the house hits on Lilac Lane, which is close to the Powers bike path. You know I don't know if it's possible to mn the path somewhere else in the proposed subdivision, but I guess at least if you did that, people would be buying lots knowing there's a bike path there. I guess my lot when I bought that, I didn't think there was any possibility, a bike path or probably much of any kind of development back there given that ravine to the left but, as I know now things change. So I'd just ask that you consider that and I guess I know it's just an easement now that may or may not get built but I guess to me if you get the easement, it's just a matter of time probably until it's built. Thanks. Franks: Thank you. Hoff`man: They take a long time sometimes. Even when you have... Franks: Is there anyone else wishing to address the commission? Tom Steward: Hi. Tom Steward, 6471 Yosemite. We've got that square chunk there and the little bit on the end that you're talking about for the potential easement. I guess we feel roughly the same as the two guys who have been up here earlier. Just some concems about increased traffic. There is more coming out of Curry Farms. There seems to be more and more kids in our wooded area there. There's, and it's not a real distinct line between the park and our woods there and so I can see why they would get in there. It's kind of all a no man's land and so, but we're even getting them up in the little bam. We've got some kids mn in there and kind of ransacked the place over last summer at a couple of points. Nothing huge but we're seeing definitely more traffic in there. I believe some neighbors said they'd even seen some indications of a couple little fires and that kind of thing so it's just, it's an area of concem already. I think we'd be concemed about the increase in traffic potentially too unless there was some kind of literally a barrier put up there. Maybe a fence of some kind between the park and us. But also the liability issues is something that definitely concems us so. Nothing other than what the two gentlemen before me had said. That pretty well covers our feelings about it, but it's a nice little comer of the city and to the extent we can preserve the, I agree with John on the size of the easement. Maybe the width of it and so on to the extent you can preserve it's character. I think that'd be appreciated by everybody out there, even those who might potentially use it if it ever does go through. Thanks. Mike Brandes: Last but not least, Mike Brandes. I live on 6411 Teton Lane. 9 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Franks: Could you speak into the microphone and make sure that we've got it. Mike Brandes: For the record, Mike Brandes. 6411 Teton Lane. I have basically the same concems as the last 3 speakers. Of course it's fairly selfish. My lot is, the other lot that's being potentially impinged upon or bordered. My question is, the easement process, John would dedicate the land or basically donate the land to the city at this time? Hoffman: ... an easement. Mike Brandes: Okay. So, and as a 20 foot right-of-way, is there any provision for, I'm basically interested in the width. Having some greenway.., is there any provision to have a greenway for trees along that fence line, the border? Hoffman: Yeah. People have been talking about the width of that easement. One of the reasons we want 20 feet is so we can go around the trees that are in there. The large trees that were talked about. We don't want to cut those trees down and so when you take 20 feet and you need to wind this little foot path through there, this is not, does not have to be an 8 foot pedestrian bike way. This is a little neighborhood connector, if it is ever built, and so you take the 20 feet so you don't have to cut the trees down. You wind it in and amongst the 20 feet and then the adjoining properties have to react to it. Once the, if it is ever established and they see there's only 5 people a week, do you go to the expense of putting up a privacy fence? That's a personal decision at that time and so, to think you're going to buffer this trail within this little 20 feet is not a realistic expectation. You know the adjoining properties need to react to it for what it is, and then proceed accordingly. Mike Brandes: Okay. Well my two cents worth is, I don't think it would get a lot of use just because of the trail as it is into the park. It's very difficult to traverse down that hill into the park so I agree with the last 3 gentlemen. Thank you. Diane Wyffels: Hi. My name is Diane Wyffels and I live at 6421 Teton Lane, next to Mike and I feel the same way that they do. That the trail is very, very steep and very treacherous and it will not get a lot of use. If you actually go to the property and see it you'd understand exactly what we're talking about. It is a very dangerous hill to go down so my kids don't go down that either so I just wanted to say that. Thanks. David Smith: Hi. My name is David Smith. I'm at 1341 Ashton Court. This property there, and I have to agree with all those people. Right now it's in a pretty natural state and I know with the easement you could go around trees but you'd still take out a lot of vegetation that is there that is now buffering Mike and Dave's place from the proposed development. And I think with the road being moved over, this would even have to be extended a little bit further to actually make the connection but it's just not worth, like I say, taking out the existing vegetation. Hoffman: It's a good group. Everybody talked. Franks: Yeah, we've heard just about from everybody. Is there anyone else? Alright. Well seeing no more public comment, we'll close this item for public comment and bring it back to the commission for commissioner comments. We'll start with you this time Mike. Howe: Todd, talk to me about liability on this. For homeowners. What's the deal? Hoffman: There's no liability for homeowners. Once the city obtains a public easement and maintains the public improvement there, liability is fully shouldered by the city and in these situations we've never had a 10 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 case in my time here at the city where we're had a liability issue on a trail. We talk a lot about the steepness of the trail. Well it's known to everybody. It's really not a liability that people aren't aware of what's going on there with the hill and I liken it to, if you live in Duluth, all the sidewalks are on hills of this nature or steeper and it's just kind of part of the territory so. We all recognize it's not ideal. No liability to the adjoining property owners or the underlying property owners where you obtain this public easement. Once it becomes a public easement, the city is on the hook for that. Howe: Okay, thanks. And the other thing is, ifI get this straight, what we're saying is, we may want to reserve the right some day to put a trail in here if certain events occur. In other words, Mr. Steward's property sells, or subdivides. Is that what we're talking about here? Hoffman: Correct. We're setting this easement aside, putting it in the bank if you will. Setting it aside and there's a high chance that the connection will never be made. If there was a high chance that the connection would be made, I would go ahead and recommend that we pave the first segment of it and take it to the back of the lot, but there's not a for sure future connection here so I can't recommend that. But we need to set it aside. We need to give the future park and recreation commission and the city council the opportunity to put this in. Once these new homeowners move in and they see that they have an opportunity to connect to Curry Farms Park, or potential connection, those are people you aren't hearing from this evening and you've been through this enough times before where you know that that's a desirable amenity. That's what people want to, they want to see these connections made. And I understand all of the issues talked about this evening from the residents. It's not ideal. It affects their property and that's affecting your back home. Whenever I propose these I go home and I talk to Liz, my wife and I say well honey, if we put a trail connection back there and this is what we're talking about and this is what we're talking about doing to these people. It's their back yard and so it's easy to say we should do it, but it's our responsibility to provide a public service to say well, there's other people that aren't here this evening that would like to see that connection made. The decision isn't going to be addressed with you here this evening but you just have to decide if you want to set that easement aside. Howe: That's all I have. Franks: Jay. Karlovich: The comments that I'd like to make, for the people in the audience here and for the City Council that I know will be reading these minutes but our comprehensive plan says that we're going to have these neighborhood parks and what do we have a one mile radius. Hoffman: Half a mile. Karlovich: Half mile radius service area. It's just unreasonable to not take this easement and we have a recommendation from city staff to have this connection and if you do not get this dedication you either have to condemn it at a later date, or force these children maybe to go down Knob Hill and down Yosemite over to Pheasant Hills which isn't really a viable option. I just think it's unfortunate and I know it's unpopular but it's something that we have to do for the greater good. Franks: Anything else Jay? Karlovich: No. Franks: Jack. 11 Park and Rec Commission Febmary 26, 2002 Spizale: If I'm right it's only 9 families that would basically use this trail. Basically right? Hoffman: 9 plus the 11 existing there. Those are on the street of Knob Hill so there's 11 existing homes and then potentially 9 new ones so that's 20 homes on that street. Spizale: Yeah, I tend to agree. We have neighborhood trails in our neighborhood and we all use them and love them. You hate to block anybody from using an area, plus I almost have a feeling that these people have a tendency to want to cut through that property if there wasn't a trail, which would cause other problems so, I'm in favor of it. Yeah. Franks: Thanks. You're right Todd when you say that we've been here, down this trail before. For those of you that are here to address on this issue, we've had this opportunity with the various residents from all parts of this city. We have these neighborhood parks and we have trails and we have trail connectors that go between lots and a lot of peoples homes and it's never an easy decision to make, putting that trail through, mnning through someone's back yard. And everyone is always concemed. My experience as a member of this commission is, although it's hard to see the potential for those trails to go through, it's pretty rare that we are ever receiving comments coming back once they're in about significant problems that have occurred once those trails have gone in. And also as a commission we've, in the past worked really hard to be sensitive to the concems of the homeowners and the residents during the constmction of the trails to make them as, to make these connections as friendly as possible. I'm in agreement with the concept that to be pmdent we need to set aside an easement for the potential of future constmction of a trail. My initial thought had been to put in the paving right away, and that was simply because to make a clear statement to anybody that would be moving into any of these properties that this is going to exist... that just doesn't seem to make sense to go ahead and pave it. So I would support securing the easement for the future potential of creating a trail connector. I think it's important that we secure that and as that area develops out and those residents take up home ownership there, that they become a voice in this decision making process. With that I'm finished. If there's anything else? Karlovich: I'd just like to make the additional comment with regards for the record, with regards to the 20 foot trail easement. I think the City Council needs to look at the fact that you need to have a wide enough width there to put in a trail without condemning any type of temporary easement. A Bobcat's got to be able to move around. You've got to be able to install a trail. If you start to narrow it down, as our developer said, maybe to 10 feet or even less than that, it's going to be difficult to put in the trail without trespassing onto private property at a later date. Or the city possibly getting sued for that trespass or for not condemning a temporary easement so if city staff is recommending a 20 foot trail, and it will give them the ability to avoid some trees, I think that 20 feet is not excessive. Howe: I also think, ifI can add, within reason this is not I don't think, ever going to be a heavy use trail. The way we look at it now but I think care should be taken to make it as a minimal a footprint as possible. I mean if 4 feet will do it, and I don't build these things but I would say make it as minimal as possible. And maybe we're tying hands of a future commission but I don't think, however they can do it so it's narrow and just gets the job done with minimal fanfare. Franks: Yeah, personally I'd never want this to be a high traffic trail because you're exactly right. We've all walked that hill down into Curry Farms Park and I think we all helped each other down and up, so it's, you know we sure don't want every kid in that neighborhood to think that they can hop on their bike and get down that hill safely. And if they do, make the comer down at the bottom so. I think we want to be careful with the constmction. If there's not anything more, is there a motion? 12 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Karlovich: I'll make a motion that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council require the following conditions of approval regarding parks and trails for Knob Hill 2nd Addition. Condition number 1. Dedication of a 20 foot trail easement along the easterly boundary of Lot 6, Block 1. And payment of full park and dedication fees per city ordinance. Franks: Is there a second? Spizale: I second the motion. Karlovich moved, Spizale seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council require the following conditions of approval regarding parks and trails for Knob Hill 2t'a Addition: 1. Dedication of a 20 foot trail easement along the easterly boundary of Lot 6, Block 1. 2. Payment of full park and dedication fees per city ordinance. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 4 to 0. Franks: Personally I'd like to thank everyone in the audience that showed up to speak to us tonight. It is always a difficult issue and we really appreciate your comments. I would encourage you to follow this issue and to again make your opinions known at any time in the future. REQUEST FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT APPROVAL TO CREATE 20 LOTS, 40UTLOTS, AND PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY WITH A VARIANCE FOR THE USE OF PRIVATE STREETS AND FROM THE SUBDIVISION STANDARDS, AND A WETLAND ALTERATION PERMIT ON 22.28 ACRES OF LAND ZONED RSF, RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY, LOCATED NORTH OF HWY 7 AT THE END OF PIPEWOOD CURVE, MATRIX DEVELOPMENT, LLC, HIDDEN CREEK ESTATES. Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item. Franks: Are there any questions for staff'? Spizale: Todd, who pays for the sidewalk connection? Hoffman: The developer. Spizale: The developer pays for all that? So we don't have to pay for any of those fees? Hoffman: No. Sidewalks are considered a part of an improvement which is part of the development itself. Regional trails, if there's a regional trail or a city trail that abuts a property or bisects a property, then we look to the developer to put it in but we'll pay for that section of our comprehensive trail plan. That's not the case here. They're just making a neighborhood connector and they'll pay for that. Franks: Any other questions? Alright, seeing none we'll open this item up for public comment. Is there anyone from the audience wishing to address the commission? No? Well seeing none we'll bring it on back for commissioner comments. Jay, you're the only one we haven't started with today so we'll go with you. 13 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Karlovich: The recommendation, at least in my view, seemed pretty straight forward. And it does have access to a neighborhood park and it looks as though we can hopefully use the park and trail fees somewhere else where it can be used within the city and I think staff`has made a reasonable recommendation. I don't have any additional comments on it. I'm ready to go forward with stafl~s recommendations. Franks: Thank you Jay. Jack. Spizale: I agree. It's quite straight forward. I've been on this trail a lot. It's a great trail. This could be a very neat development with that park so close and that trail. It's a fantastic spot and I think it's pretty well explained here. That's about all I've got. Franks: Thanks Jack. Mike. Howe: Sounds fine to me. Franks: Just the last thing. How long is the sidewalk from that cul-de-sac to the regional trail there? I mean what kind of distance are we talking about? Hoff`man: Distance from here to here? Franks: No. From the trail. Yes, from there to. Hoff`man: From there to here? Franks: Actually we're talking about, they'll gain access to Cathcart Park along the. Hoff`man: The street right-of-way abuts the. Franks: The trail. Hoff`man: Yep, the trail. Franks: Right. So how far, how long a sidewalk are we talking about? Hoff`man: Very short. Franks: Real short. Hoff`man: Yeah, 50 feet. 40 feet. Franks: 40 or 50 feet, okay. Thank you. Hoff`man: And in fact, Hennepin County may only allow them to take it to the property line in any improved fashion and then after that it's just a foot path up to the trail. Probably how they'll allow it to happen. And from what I know they'll most likely be concrete sidewalks throughout this development, so people have access on sidewalks to get up to the right-of-way there at the LRT and then they'll just walk the ditch line up to the top of the trail. 14 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Franks: Well that was my second comment. Thanks for taking care of it. Because at this access point onto Highway 7 it going to be the main access point for this development. There's going to be some pretty significant traffic. And if we're, you know all these homes will have to at least traverse some portion of that street to get up to that cul-de-sac. But what you're indicating is that there will be sidewalk. Hoffman: Yeah. That was stafl~s, when the planning department looked at it, that was their recommendation and I don't believe the applicant has a problem. The fact that this is fairly straight forward is why you do not see the applicant here. They consider it a slam dunk. They see this as a positive for their neighborhood development that they could gain access to that trail. When you can take anything with the resources of that trail and give it to all your residents, make sure you do everything possible to make it happen. Franks: So would Hennepin, or the trail authority, Hennepin County, would they maintain that foot path then? It's just like crushed aggregate or? Hoffman: Yeah, it might be just crushed aggregate or just existing materials. They don't really take an aggressive stand. They promote, in their mission statement they promote these neighborhood connections but it's going through a waterway and they just don't get real elaborate with them. It's just make a run for it. Franks: Any other commissioner comments? Well seeing none, is there a motion? Howe: I'll take it. I recommend, we recommend that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council to approve the following conditions of approval regarding parks and trails for Hidden Creek Estates. One, payment of full park fees in lieu of parkland dedication or construction. Two, payment of full trail fees in lieu of construction of any section of the city's comprehensive trail plan. And three, provide for a sidewalk connection from Hidden Creek Estates to the Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority/Three Rivers Park District Light Rail Transit route multi-use trail, including procurement/transfer of all applicable easements and permits. Karlovich: I'll second the motion. Howe moved, Karlovich seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council to approve the following conditions of approval regarding parks and trails for Hidden Creek Estates: 1. Payment of full park fees in lieu of parkland dedication or construction. Payment of full trail fees in lieu of construction of any section of the city's comprehensive trail plan. Provide for a sidewalk connection from Hidden Creek Estates to the Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority/Three Rivers Park District Light Rail Transit route multi-use trail, including procurement/transfer of all applicable easements and permits. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 4 to 0. Franks: Do you want to add onto that Todd, I think we all endorse the idea of making sure that there's neighborhood sidewalks. 15 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Hoffman: Okay. PUBLIC GATHERING PERMIT, WATER SKIING TOURNAMENT AT LAKE SUSAN. Ruegemer: We are reviewing this tonight. The Minnesota INT has been here previously in hopes of obtaining a public gathering permit. Ms. Pam Mueller is the State Coordinator. She's been really great to work with. We have Mr. Mueller with us tonight in the audience to answer any questions that the commission may have but the INT is proposing their toumament again this year for Lake Susan Park June lst and 2nd. It will have the same components as last year. Wake board, knee board and water skiing type of events. Really the best thing really for everybody that happen through the years you know kind of going through the neighborhood meetings and a lot of that was to move that toumament to the first part of June. It was a wonderful thing for everybody and INT has been great to work with on that. The residents have been very well, kind of willing to go along with the plan and INT has done a wonderful j ob as far as educating people and informing the residents as to kind of what's going on the day of the toumament and prior to the tournament. It really has been a very smooth transition. You know letters were sent out again to all the lakeshore and residents in that area soliciting any type of public comments or opposition or positive comments on the tournament and to this day I didn't receive any comments, good or bad so. Really to me that says that the Mueller's and INT have done their homework. They've satisfied and put out conditions to the residents that they're very satisfied with so you know really a lot of it is the same as it has been in the past as far as the reservation fee for the shelter. INT and the toumament organizers have established kind of their no tolerance type of policies with participants and organizers. They're going to monitor to keep the access open again as they have in the past, making sure that residents or other community people can certainly access the lake and use that lake. Really they've done a really good job with doing everything in a positive way so I'm recommending that the commission tonight approves the public gathering permit for the Minnesota INT to host their water-ski, wake-boarding, knee-boarding toumament June lst and 2nd at Lake Susan Park. We also recommend that they pay the $250 per day reservation fee for the pavilion. And then also just post a $1,000 deposit check for any type of unforeseen damages. And to this date we have not had any damages with this site and the check has always been retumed so they've been very respectful of the lake and our park and it's really a fun event for our community. Franks: Thanks Jerry. Well you're the only one left in the audience Mr. Mueller. If you'd like to address the commission you sure can, but I'll give you another option and that's just to field any questions we might have. Mr. Mueller: That's fine. Pam does apologize for not being here. She's a little under the weather so I took her place. Franks: We're sorry to hear that...been here before so if we can just move it in. If there's any questions that any of the commissioners would have for Mr. Mueller. He's indicated he will field those for us. Anyone? Spizale: I've got a couple. How many people participate? Mr. Mueller: Well Pam averages roughly about 125-150 competitors per stop. There are 6 stops throughout the state. Saturday, it's almost a 50-50 split on Saturday and Sunday. So Saturday is the slalom day and Sunday is wake-board/knee-board so on Lake Susan normally the first toumament, it's normally a smaller. She's about 75 to 80 competitors that will show up. Even though last year we broke 130 1 think she did. She's got the exact numbers...off`the top of my head. 16 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Spizale: And does an event like this have any type of insurance? Any type of a bond or? Mr. Mueller: Oh yes. Yeah, and actually I think Pam supplies that. Ruegemer: That's part of that we have on file. Spizale: And probably the last question is, what type of first aid safety conditions do they have? Mr. Mueller: We've got, there's a qualified safety personnel person there with all the safety gear. He's been trained and certified at every toumament. There's safety boats in the water as well as on land. Actually I've got something that I'll leave with Jerry, if you're interested. I just make copies of it tonight. It talks about INT and gives you a lot of statistics and I'll leave you guys one. Spizale: That's all the questions I have. Franks: Anybody else have any questions for Mr. Mueller? Howe: No, nice job. I know 3 or 4 years ago we had some minor controversies and I think from whatever came out of those joint meetings, this thing runs like a clock so wonderful. Mr. Mueller: Pam does a nice job. Franks: We'll just take that as Commissioner Howe's comments and do you have anything more? Howe: I don't have anything more. Positive comments. Franks: Jay? Karlovich: Yeah, the only comment I have is a couple years ago there were some problems but at that time I was still for the event because the event is recreation. We're here for park and recreation and I think I give staff and your organization credit for turning it into a, at least over the last couple years, an event that, in which there has been no problems and it's a great event and something that we should support once again. Franks: Thanks. Jack, anything more? Spizale: No, I'm set. Franks: I'd like to say too, I've been at all of the meetings and I remember a few of those where there was certainly some discussion. What I really appreciate is how you took that feedback and did some great problem solving and I think just evidence that no one is here tonight speaks to how successful you've been. I've watched the toumament myself a few times. I live pretty close by and I look forward to getting down there again this year so, I'm certainly in favor of moving forward with this. Is there a motion? Karlovich: I move that the Park and Recreation Commission go forward with the kind of long winded recommendation here of our staff as provided in item 6 of our agenda. Franks: Thank you Jay, and is there a short winded second. Howe: I will second. 17 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Karlovich moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve INT's request for a public gathering permit to host a water-ski, wake-board, and knee-board tournament at Lake Susan Park on June 1 and 2, 2002. It is also recommended that INT pay the reservation fee of $250 per day to reserve the Lake Susan Pavilion and a $1,000 deposit check be submitted prior to the event to cover any unforeseen damages. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously 4 to 0. RECREATION REPORTS: 2002 FEBRUARY FESTIVAL EVALUATION. Ruegemer: Is it just as easy, is there any comments on Feb Fest? I know a lot of the commissioners were there. Howe: Dog races were great. Karlovich: It was a lot ofwork. Ruegemer: Yeah, Corey continues to do a very good job on that. Looking for all the details and is really sinking his teeth in in the special events. He's doing a good job at that and I applaud all of you for being there as well and helping out. It's kind of a fun event to get out and drill holes and do dog sleds and it's, it's a fun deal. It's fun getting out with the community. Franks: I just have a question about the Satellite placement, and you might want to take a look at numbers or maybe just placement but there's a lot of activity that happens around the food tent, bait selling, prize board area, but yet the Satellites, seemed to be kind of dispersed up the side. Really addressed the needs of the fishermen but not a lot of the people hanging around and just kind of engaging in activities so. Hoffman: Did you see the 2 behind the tent? Franks: I did not. Hoffman: There you are. Franks: Well that's what I was going to say. Can we place a few behind the tent. Hoffman: Yeah, right over at the public access. Franks: Oh down a little bit. Howe: I'll drill you your own hole. Franks: Will you drill my own hole? I'd like a 2 seater please. Hoffman: I think there were 2 put right there, I'm sure. Franks: The ice skating rink, those guys must have worked hard on that. That was just fantastic. The ice was great. Ruegemer: They do a good job. They're very conscientious. 18 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Karlovich: I just have to say it was a lot of work but the, with the beers and the brats it was a great experience. Spizale: And we had great weather. Really lucked out. Hoffman: Happens every year for many years. Franks: Just seeing how popular, Jer if you want to pass this onto Corey, but seeing how popular like that Bingo was, just expanding like, it looks like Corey's thinking about is some other kinds of activities like that for the kids just to have it handy, I think it would be really neat. 2002 DADDY DAUGHTER DATE NIGHT EVALUATION. Howe: My first one. Hoffman: First one? Howe: My daughter just tumed 4. Ruegemer: Did Mr. Howe have a bow tie on that evening? Howe: I wore a bow tie. I got duded up for that event. It was a lot of fun. I tell you, it's a wonderful time. Ruegemer: That's a hugely successful program. Franks: The girls were sitting at our table talking about how old they will be when they can't go any more and already lamenting the fact. They will hit the age barrier so I mean they're looking forward to that every year. Ruegemer: What do you have left? A couple. Franks: I have 2 more years. Ruegemer: You've got 5? It goes to 9. Is Lindsay 4? Howe: She'll be 5. Ruegemer: 5 in March, yeah. So yeah, just the, I mean it was capacity both nights. We had additional spots just so we could fix, maybe look to a third night. Howe: Could you fill it do you think? Ruegemer: It'd be pretty close. We get lots of. Franks: Could you do a Thursday, Friday, Saturday? Ruegemer: You know hard to say. Potentially. Or maybe a Wednesday night. Well, Wednesday night would probably be a bad night, but possibly Saturday night. Or maybe a matinee, who knows. 19 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Howe: Food was good. The food did a really good job. Franks: Food was great and I'm glad to see the comment about desert. Ruegemer: Yeah, from what I understand it was pretty decent food. My daughter's getting to that age now I can bring to this as well so maybe I should attend next year. I was getting a little crap in the office for not attending this year so. But no, Corey's done, he's doing a great job with that too so very successful program so. Franks: Well you pass along to him that we, those of us on the commission that attended thoroughly enjoyed it. Ruegemer: You bet. He'll be happy to hear that. 2002 EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT PREVIEW. Ruegemer: The Easter Egg Candy Hunt is coming up Saturday, March 30th. Another fun event. Hopefully we won't have any snow this year to worry about. It's sure looking that way right now. The Splatter Sisters again will be back for the entertainment this year. I know Corey's been talking to volunteers and stuff`again so we're getting a lot of people lined up for that again so. I know the copier's been going crazy upstairs getting all the, you know about 4,000 copies out to the schools and that needs to be out in the schools by next Monday so. I know Corey's been busy coordinating that with our key people here at the city and that will be delivered probably the end of the week or early next week. Franks: If Jan were here she'd want to comment on breaking down the ages and making sure you have everything in the proper place so I'll just make that comment for her this evening. Ruegemer: We are taking offk Obviously the ages are going to be separated again but we're taking off`the times on the flyers so people don't show up at 10:15. We all know once we get there that things flow. Once you get the domino going you can't stop it so we took the times off` and we said here's the age categories. They'll go in order by age but you need to be there, it will be right after the performance so hopefully that's going to alleviate and get rid of those types of situations as we have in the past. Franks: Good. Spizale: What time of the day is that? Ruegemer: 9:00. Franks: Anything else anyone? ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS: CHANHASSEN CITY COUNCIL STRATEGIC PLANNING. Hoff`man: City Council wanted to make sure that you had a copy of this document so you were aware of their work plan regarding their strategic planning event that was held earlier in the year. So there are 5. Number one strategy is related to taxation. They've already talked about those in their work sessions and their off`session Monday's. Two, the economic development in the city. Three, housing...concept and 20 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 explore altemative models for development of such a center in Chan. And then based on the history of past attempts that council develop a concept of what the community really has in mind conceming a community center. That word just can make a variety of things for different people. And then they want to explore all the altematives. Joint ventures with Lifetime, the Y, the school districts, potentially located with the new high school. That's a topic of discussion currently in the community. And then any other models taken from communities. And if you know if you're going to be with us on Monday night for the tours, we're all set to go. I can take your attendance this evening so we know how many to tell the bus company and how many meals to buy and those type of things. Franks: I will be in attendance Todd. Howe: I don't know Todd. It's going to be tough. Karlovich: I will not be in attendance. Spizale: I don't know yet. I'll let you know within 2 days. Hoffman: Okay. So Jack is a maybe. Super. Thanks. Any other issues or comments on the plan? DISCUSSION ITEMS FOR 3OINT MEETING WITH THE CITY COUNCIL. Hoffman: As a means of facilitating that meeting with the council, due to the tumover on the commission which we're facing, they may or may not keep it on the 18th. But if we can just still throw out a few items so I can get something put down on paper, that will be helpful. If you want to take a few minutes to talk about that and direct staff or guide staff; I would appreciate that. Franks: My first comment Todd is, either way we look at it, it's a little problematic about having a meeting for us. If we have it now we have 4 commission members that are rotating off`and won't be there. If we wait until after, slightly after new members are appointed, there's that little piece ofa leaming curve where they don't really. Hoff`man: They have 4 listeners. Franks: Yeah right, which is good but we're kind of one way or the other so. Hoff`man: Yeah, we can't do anything about that. What should we talk about, that's all we're asking? Howe: Well the community center. Franks: I would agree. That's rated so high on community surveys. Survey after survey. I think it's good that it gets some serious consideration. Karlovich: What do you think about trail connectors off`of Highway 5. Galpin and frontage road area where you have those nice bridges that stop. I just think once Highway 41 is done there's going to be a big demand to get the people across there. Hoff`man: Yep, and those are on line for presentation to the council but we can talk to them about it. Howe: Anything on 101 north? Is there any merit to discussing that or are we beating a dead horse there? 21 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Hoffman: They can give you an update. Council's pretty much has that on their agenda and we can just ask for an update of where they're at. Howe: Okay. Franks: As a related issue, and I don't know if 101 would be a way to open up that discussion is the budgetary and financial implications, projects like that mean to the overall delivery of park and recreation services and amenities to the city into the future. There's a number of large ticket items that have been proposed over the year that park and trail funds be utilized for and so I think that'd still be a good discussion item. Hoffman: Talk about the... Franks: Well I don't want to say it that way but my glass is kind of half full. We need to talk about the empty bank. Hoff`man: Which it could be. We don't know that for sure. Howe: Do we have someone on the library commission? Did somebody take the library commission appointment? Hoffman: Rod was there in Jack's place and Jack will be there Wednesday night. Spizale: Yeah, tomorrow. Hoffman: Tomorrow. Karlovich: I would suggest that you, at least this meeting on the 18th be postponed though. At least any of the new commissioners I think would love a forum with the City Council. As opposed to the short timers that are going to be there. Howe: We can mention ideas that might you know are stuck in our cray. One other thing that I know I've talked to Jan about. What does the City Council want out of the commission? I know we talked about the library board. Well you had a separate commission set up to do landscaping for the library, which is a public space. I mean is that not under our influence? Is that something that we should have been doing? I know we have somebody on the board, but you know it seems like our role, is it being splintered a little bit and should we say that? Is this purposeful or is this the way we're going now? A lot of us have done this a long time. Not that we're experts but when it comes to trails and such and we've seen all this stuff`before, do you want some of that experience or do they want more varied opinions, which is fine. What do they want? Okay. Hoff`man: There will obviously be an orientation for the new members. We'll include the existing members of the commission and we'll have people like the Mayor and the City Manager come into those orientation sessions and talk about those issues. Franks: Another issue that's a little dear to my heart of course is always going back to what the City Council's sense of vision is for the overall park and recreation aspects of our city. Hoff`man: Big picture. 22 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Franks: Big picture. Hoffman: I think that's plenty. Howe: Yeah, that's a lot. Franks: And we've got 4, I think these are all very good. I'd like to see them all addressed. The one comment that I have is, I think they're all pretty equally important. I'd hate, the one about expectations and the role of the commission I think has, although very important, has the potential to kind of take over our entire amount of time so I'd like to see some line of communication or statement that we'd really like to take some time to address these, and that can certainly be an ongoing dialogue, but it would be well worth while to start. Hoffman: Okay. Franks: Everybody okay with those? Hoffman: I have a couple other items under administrative reports. We talk about the one upcoming special meeting and that's the joint meeting on Monday for the tours. Monday for the tours. We also have a meeting coming up on Tuesday, March 12th, which has been scheduled by the City Center Design Committee and that will be an opportunity for the committee and the Park and Recreation Commission to sit down and talk about the plan that is, as it's developed to that date. And so you are the third meeting. The first meeting was to formulate some basic concepts. Tomorrow night those will be refined and then they'll come to you in the third meeting to talk about the process to that point. So mark that down on your calendar. It's Tuesday, March 12th at 7:00 p.m. and it may be in this room or upstairs in the courtyard. You'll receive an agenda. Monday, March 18th, tentatively at least for the joint meeting. That may be in fact, may change. And then Carver County. I can certainly attend the March 13th meeting. I'm available for that. This is the one that Jack attended. Carver County Parks Master Planning for Lake Minnewashta. So Jack, if you'd like to come back or any of the other commissioners, I will be in attendance that evening, but anyone else who would like to attend is certainly welcome. It's at what, 6:30 or 7:00 is that time, do you remember? 6:30 Ithink. Spizale: I think it was 6:30. I'd have to check. Hoffman: 6:30 and that's in the Lotus Lake Room and that's on March 13th. That's what, the night after our special meeting so it's kind of ironic. We've gone through a slow period of business activity and just when we're going through this transition and tumover, we're really heating up as far as meetings and commitments so staff`will do what we need to do to make sure we make that transition as smooth as possible and continue to represent the citizens at these meetings. In regards to the application process, we have very few applicants so we are going out and soliciting again through the local newspapers and we're also sending out those notifications to past applicants and so you'll see those numbers. And the council talked about it last night at their meeting and they will as well put out the word to the community through the local groups and organizations that there's space on the Park and Recreation Commission. Karlovich: I wanted to let you know next meeting I'll be on a cruise. Hoff`man: Okay, hey. Karlovich: First cruise. 23 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 Hoffman: The regular meeting? Karlovich: Regular meeting. Hoffman: Alright. Franks: I want you to know I take no responsibility for that. Alright. I'd like to encourage commission members as well that since we are probably the people who have the greatest understanding of what we do and what's required, it would certainly be advertisements for future commission members as well so by word of mouth. If there's nothing more Todd then we'll move onto commission member committee reports. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. Franks: Just one thing from me. As Todd indicated, I attended the City Center Commons Design Committee meeting for Jack. Spizale: Thank you. Franks: I think some good feedback was provided to the landscape architects about how to proceed and hopefully they'll take the comments of the people that were there at the meeting Todd and move forward. And Jack, I hope they present some more worthwhile designs to you all tomorrow so we'll look forward to an update. Spizale: Did they have any designs with them or are they just taking information basically? Franks: They had some preliminary designs I think that were, in my opinion, they were created to provoke discussion. And then of course take those discussion ideas and really kind of put them together. Anything else? ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Hoffman: Nice letter from an attomey's firm there. Karlovich: I meant every word of it. It's been a pleasure. I just, timing is not good for the Karlovich family. Hoffman: We're going to miss everybody and we will certainly throw the appropriate farewell event for this group. If you're in District 112, everybody keeping up on the long range planning issue? So if you want to take an interest in that I think as a commission, it's something, if we can't, if we don't have our own dollars to spend for recreation in the city, we ought to be looking to spend District 112's money to put recreation facilities in the city so talk it up with your neighbors and friends. I'm not sure ifa high school's coming our way or a middle school but I can guarantee you dollars to donuts that down in Chaska they don't want to see that high school split so they would like to keep it there and probably create a super th campus around the 9 grade center. Tuming that into high school and adding onto the other pod but there's a group of people in the community as well who would like to see a second high school for, primarily the reason is to not create a super high school with large populations where kids get lost. And so the leaming outcomes say you create a smaller school, you have a better identity. Kids can, they 24 Park and Rec Commission February 26, 2002 understand who they're going to school with. They have a smaller community. More of them are involved in a very positive fashion and so that's the debate that's going on in the community. Please get involved because it's setting some long range planning steps into motion that are very critical for our city. We have 2 schools in Chan and Chaska has 8 or 9 and they're smaller than us. How did that happen? Why did it happen and what are we going to do to change that tide in the future? Franks: Congratulations again Todd. Hoffman: Thank you. Franks: It's really nice to see. Thank you for including those. Well if there isn't anything else, is there a motion to adjoum? Howe moved, Karlovich seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 25