1992 11 20
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CHANHASSEN SENIOR COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 20, 1992
Chairwoman Montgomery c~lled the meeting to order at 9:30 a.m.
'MEMBERS PRESENT: Barbara Montgomery, Bernice Billison, Sherol Howard.
Betty 8ragg, Emma St. John, Jane Kubitz, and Selda Heinlein
STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, Planning Director; and Sharmin AI-Jaff,
Planner I
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Chairwoman Montgomery noted the Minutes of the
Senior Commission, meeting dated October 16, 1992 as pres,nted.
CHEMICAL HEALTH WEEK - GLENYS BUTLER.
Montgomery: First of all we'd like to welcome Glenys Butler who's going
to be talking to us this morning about Chemical Health Week and what's
going on in Chanhassen.
Glenys Butler: I'm Glenys Butler. I'm the Chemical Health Coordinator
for Carver County and I also work as a therapist at First Street Center
which is Carver County's Mental Health program. The mental health
program is an out patient mental health program. Sharmin asked me to
tell you a little bit about some of the' resources available in th~
County, both in the areas of mental health and chemical health. Is that
correct? Something that you ~ould be interested in? Let me just begin
with in the area of mental health and the services available through
First Street Center. I have some brochures. As I mentioned, First
Street Center is'~ County agency and therefore our services are available
to any resident of Carver County. Let me begin with-who is eligible and
eligibility is simply based on residency. In terms of income or
f i na ncial Tevel, we do accept third', party payments but for those who are
not insured we accept, we have a sliding fee scale so that financial
concern should not keep anyone from receiving services there. People can
be referred by a physician. A fr iend. Or they can s'el f refer themselves
simply by calling and indicating their interest in seeing a therapist.
t.Je provide individual therapy, family therapy, group therapy ,
psychological evaluations and ~yschiatric medications through our
consulting psychiatrist and frankly that is probably where we see the
majority of the seniors at our center is in terms of coming into see one
of our psychiatrists for management of medications. We frankly do not
see many seniors that are ~eeking out individual therapy or a family
therapy as such. Occasionally a family may contact us expressing concern
about things that are going on in the family but that is more the
,exception than the rule. Through Frist Street Center we also provide
consultation. We sometimes are called by a school. By a physician. By
some other agency. Sometimes a nursing home or a care center for
consultation in terms of working with a particular individual. Or we are
available to go into a center. I do a lot of going to centers and doing
some kind of an educational program. Currently I have been going to the
Care Center in Young America...and occasionally we'll do educational
programs on change or loss or grieying. Things like that to the center
asa whole or to meet with small groups of residents' to, excuse me
cli~nts who are attending to discuss whatever issues are pertinent or
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 2
relevant for them. So those kinds of services are available through our
center. Do you have .ny questions? Probably move over to more in the
area of chemical health, unless you have some questions about m~ntal
health services. Okay. In the area of chemical health, the County
employs three CD social workers'who are available to do assessments and
referrals for anyone who is experiencing chemical abuse or use problems.
And their assessments might amount to simply saying, telling someone that
they are at risk and referring them to some kind of resource, educational
or other~ise so that they can begin using chemicals in a more ippropriate
or responsi~le way, whatever. For many that obviously might involve non-
use of mood altering chemicals other than their perscription medications.
Or they may refer someone to a 12 step program or an'out patient or i~
patient treatment program. Through my services as Chemical Health
Coordinator is attempting to identify needs in the County and to
establish programs as we are able to do, depending on financial
resources. If it's to be a County based program or to consult with other.
groups as they wish to establish programs. A lot of my efforts end up
being involved with youth in schools. Prevention education programs. In
the area of seniors, 1 think that's an area that we perha~s could or~eed
to be doing more in that area. I think I will just ask for your
questions and here particular things you're concerned about.
Montgomery: I had a question Glenys. It seemed to me that for instance
reading something like oh the magazine that AARP puts out for instance
and some of these other places, there seems to be this dire problem of
people not knowin~ how to combine medications or drinking and taking
medications. All of this sort of thing where they're really saying this
is a horrendous problem and that it is quite wide spread, and yet I don't
seem to hear anything about it here. Although I know that it was a
problem about what, 15 years ago. There were a lot of people in trouble
and I just am wondering where are these people or what's happened? Has
something, are they better? Are they under cover, or you know, I~on't
know. Do we need to do somet~ing to help people recognize the problem in
their family? It may be the younger people we're trying to reach, not
the older ones.
Glenys Butler: I think you're exactly right Barbara that there isa
problem. It's difficult to establish exact numbers of chemical use
problems amongst seniors. That may involve alcohol or it may simply
involve misuse of their prescription drugs. Not taking them properly or
appropriately. Trading drugs. Trying each others out. Not taking them
as prescribed. Or mixing them with alcohol which can be very dangerous.
One of the problems that we encounter is trying to access the seniors
with this information. I attempt to go to Health Fairs, if I'm aware of
them that involve seniors. And trying to set it up in a non-threatening
manner so that they might be more interested in getting that informatiori.
We have cards. I can share these with you.
Bragg: Glenys, do you have to be alerted by someone that there might be
a problem before you evaluate? I mean do they have to be referred to YOU
or, because it is a hidden problem.
Glenys Butler: A hidden problem and so part of the task I think very
.often is to educate family members or caregivers so they know what kind
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of resources to access, but yes. In terms of doing an assessment, is
that what you're referring to, of an individual? Yes, we would ne~d to
be contacted.
Bragg: Very often they are such hidden...that even a senior cente~ Is
not aware because they don't come out to ,the senior center. They stay in
their homes with their problems and the family does know about it but
thei don't know whereto get help. I went to one meeting where a mayor
of a community was speaking to me and he said that his mother lives o~t
in the Chanhassen area, was a drinker and he said he didn't knoW what to
do because she wouldn't ~ccept help from him and he didn't know where to
turn. And since he was in Tonka Bay, he was in Hennepin County and she's
in Carver County and I didn't know either what to do but I had thought if
she would come to the senior center she might be able to hear about it
but no, she is isolated. She has isolated herself and this is just one
example.
Montgomery: Don't you think part of it is that the younger people are
afraid to confront their parents you know. They're not used to doing
that and maybe that's what, is there anything that we could do to help
with that?
Glenys Butler: Well I guess the thought that comes to mind is some kind
of an educational. ' Trying to educate family members would be.
Howard: About this card. When I get a prescription filled I ask the
Pharmac'ist if there's any interaction with any other drugs. I may tell
him about my blood pressure pills or whatever and wouldn't it be nice if
they would print. Now they print, may cause drowiness. If they would go
further than that and tell on each drug what interaction might be to be
avoided with other drugs. As they fill a prescription because thi
pharmacists are the ones who are up on the drugs rather than the doctors.
Glenys Butl~r: And if they had some printed materials that they co~ld
give to the person?
Howard: Yes. They would have a note for every drug saying which drug it
interacts with.
Glenys Butler: That would be an interesting idea to discuss with some
pharmacists.
Howard: Well if they can do, may cause drowiness, it'd just be going
further than that. Because this is a day of taking drugs and heavens
sake~ you need a lot of them.
Heinlein: I find that any drugs that I get through Snyders. they have
now a slip that tells you what that medication can cause.
Howard: Yes, but it's'a general.
Heinlein: No, no. Each one is different. Now I got a new medication
the other day and it specified ,on there to take it either an hour after
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you ate or 2 hours after. It's 1 hour before you ate or n6 later than 2
hours after. It specified.
Howard: 1 have those directions but what ~I'm talking about is what
happens if you're taking another drug while you're taking this drug.
That's the sort of thing 1 mean.
Heinlein: So I mean they have them all on separate sheets. The heart
medication and this was an extra one.
Howard: They do say avoid taking tetracycline while you're taking this
drug. That is one that is enumerated on some prescriptions.
Kubitz: There's another thing too because we had a neighbor who did
this. She thOught she had problems. She went to this doctor. He would
prescribe somethin~. She didn't stop taking the drug from this doctor.
Then she didn't get better so she went to another doctor. She wound up a
real case and they finally got her into st. Mary's...but if you go to a
different doctor, check to find out if those...
Montgomery: Well Glenys, what can we do? You(know we've talked about it
before I think but it just seems to me there ought to be something we
could do that would be helpful and I don't know.
Glenys Butler: Well frankly as I .was dr iving today and thi nki ng about
what I was going to be sharing, I thought I hope I can get some help from
you in terms of how to access the seniois and theii families. I strongly
suspect that thiough the family membeis is a good ioute. ! agree with
you, 1 know myself having aging pan~nts, it's ieal difficult. They're
veiY proud and still veiY capable people and yet at times I question, you
know they're of tha.t geneiation. They don't question what the doctoi
says and yet they also use some of theii own kind of folkloie, Oi old
ways of doing things, and 1 think with modein medicine that ~ometimes can
be dangeious and they're not awaie of that. What I'm tyying to say, asa
family member it is difficult. It's a diffeient role and how do you, so
often you hear people say well, they'ie old. Let them enjoy their last
years. If mom's having, if she can ielax that way or gee it's the only
time we hear hei laugh is when she's having a few drinks and playing
caids, but they're not thinking about how does this interact with the
medication she's taking. Or how will it affect it during the night when
she gets up so to ieach family me~beis, we need to come up with some
creative idea~. We can try to have wOikshops or biing a speaker out and
our experience is that you don't get many people. Attempt to use the
n~wspapers at times.
Montgomery: Has the Advisory Board taken this up very much? The
Chemical Dependency Advisory Boaid for the County.
Glenys Butler: The che~ical health? Not in ter~s of, it's been a while
perhaps since they've addressed that in any particular reason. Perhaps
someone from your commission might want to come and biing your concerns.
8ragg: I was going to say, suggest some satuiation. You know some
really effort.to make people awaie that itis a proble~ because like you
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 5
say, you hear about it for a while and then it goes away and then you
don't hear. Maybe it isn't but it truly is in each individual home but I
think just of our own commission here, just about everyone of us is
taking medication and I doubt if any of us are so blue nosed that we
don't occasionally have ~ drink socially and you know. And if that's the
'case here, it must be even more so out, as I say there.
Montgomery: ~ell I'm,sure that one of us would be glad to appear at one
of those meetings if that would be of any help but it just seems to me, ~
just feel as if we should qe doing 'something and maybe you have the same
feeling. But maybe we could put our heads together.
Glenys Butler: Yeah, I've done things where I will go to say the
congregate dining site. and do a 10 or 15 minute education program about
medications. I wish I had more copies of... that I'll pass around.
Montgomery: Are there any films that are really good that would be of
any use?
Glenys Butler: No. For seniors?
Montgome~y: For seniors. Or their families.
Glenys Butler: I'm not aware of any. The ones that I have seen have
been quite dated and also very lengthy and my experience, especially if
you're trying to go in and do something with the seniors is that it needs
to be short and to the point. There are some programs, for example the
Minnesota Prevention Resource Center has a program called chem care. A
seniors guide to ~rugs and alcohol. It's a 4 session program for seniors
on appropriate or responsible use of chemicals. As I read through it, if
r were to do this sort of program I would adapt it greatly because it
seems very didadic, very long and quite boring. The pictures I'm passing
around is a booth display that I've put together for seniors. It has a
teddy bear that functions as a doctor and this rabbit as the client and 1
put a necktie and so on on him. And there's a big bottle of pills and
then the prescription form says, itJs a huge prescription form that sits
up there and it says, take as prescribed. 00 not mix with other
medications, Mogen David wine, and dandelions or something like that.
Trying to lntroduce a little bit of humor but still get the information
out and yet my experijnces that at the senio~ centers, very few people
stop to pick up any of the information. They stand off afar and smile
and that's it. .,
Montgomery: Maybe tying it in with something else. I don't know, like a
diet program or I don't know. Something that somebody, is more...than to
go and say, I've got a problem and t~at's why I'm here~
Glenys Butler: Well that's a good idea. To integrate the chemic.l use
with other things that they do care about. Now you have 'what, a senior
center?
Bragg: We do have a senior center here in the building and I think
there's a nice educational program.
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Howard: In getting ahead of ourselves. I was going to report on a
senior center thing. On the 24th of February we're having a luncheon and
a pharmacist is going to be there and the program'~ going to be,
. Medications and You, which will fit right in with this.
Bragg: Our center's only been open since July right? And it's
gradually, I noticed that the program in the paper this week just
sounding more and more exciting and the Advisory is to be commended for
what's been happening. I think it sounds good.
St. John: Speaking of the paper this week, I am really pleased that it
is coming out on Thursday. Finally we're getting it in time.
Montgomery: Glenys, just you know, we certainly are willing to cooperate
and maybe we could talk again too and just see if there isn't something
that we could do. Another something maybe at the center or some kind of
mailing or to go out with something. Or .notice.
Glenys Butler: What I thought I had is tha~~ since you are, youknowI!m
not ~ware of any of the other communities that has a group such as yours
that's so interested and concerned about these issu~s, that perhaps we
could work together and we could kind of do a pilot in a sense and try a
number of different things here and see what does work. What is
effective.. .
Montgomery: Maybe we'll keep in touch.
Howard: We'll have a captive audience at this luncheon so if there's
anything to be passed out.
Bragg: When is Chemical Health Week? This week.
Glenys Butler: Right. Today is the last day. But as far as I'm
concerned, we need to maintain efforts throughout the year and not just
during that week.
Montgomery: Well I think if you keep in touch with Sherol Howard and
Dawn Lemme, I'm sure that they would be glad to cooperate.
Glenys Butler: I'm wonder i ng if there'd be some ways to exper iment .with
some family involvement through the senior cent~r. Or to set up
something on a more regular basis or try different kinds of written
materials that would always be available. Or if you have some kind of a
newsletter for seniors. That information could always be, you know
there's a chemical health newsletter that goes to every family in the
county with school aged children and we can make an attempt to do more
there in terms of working family issues that specifically address
seniors.
St. John: Have that mailing list for more than just the school aged
children.
Glenys Butler: To make it available to more?
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20. 1992 - Page 7
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St. John: Make it available.
Glenys Butler: Yeah ~e would love to and we have a lot of requests.
.There's a lot of obviously a financial limitations of that effort.
Montgomery: But we do have a publication that goes out every once in a
while to seniors and you know, ii certainly could be something included I
would think.
Glenys Butler: Yeah. because what we find with, it's the Chem Newsletter
that I'm referring to. It comes out 6 times a year and there's something
about that periodically you're getting new messages~
Bragg: Another form of saturatiori. Just so it doesn't quite leave your
mi nd ..
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Glenys Butler: Right. Another thing that we have done at times, and
this is not ever on a regular basis, is to do something like have a
pharmacist come to a setting and we call it a brown bag session where we
ask people to bring all their medications with them. And the pharmacist
can discuss it with them and at that time indicate whether he sees any
problems or difficulties. And it's also a time to find out whether or
not they're having trouble getting the medication bottles open and that's
why they're not taking them as recommended. There are a lot of things to
be tTied and it would be really fun to work with a group that's
interested and concerned about doin~ that. And Barbara let's~ I would
like to talk about.
Montgomery: I just wanted to thank iyou Glenys. We appreciate your
coming out and you know we'rewillirig to do what we can.
Glenys Butler: That's great, thank you.
Montgomery: Thank Glenys.
CONCEPT OVERVIEW OF CHANHASSENSENIOR HOUSING STUDY - PRESENTATION BY
GAYLE DAVIDGE WITH MCCOMB GROUP.
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Gayle Davidge: Hi. Okay, I'm ready to talk a little bit about it. We
have found that there's a need for senior housing and that there's two
distinct senior groups here that require housing. One is the elderly
seniors who are still somewhat active but also in ~eed of abit of
support services, which is the smaller group. And a larger group of
seniors who no longer wish to maintain their homes or cannot maintain
their homes but don't really require services. And bridging the gap
between these two groups was quite d challenge to us. The younger, more
active seniors will age in place as will the older, less active group and
our concept is to come up with a project that works for both by having a
flexible building. The common areas and the community areas within a
building would be developed so that they can have multiple purposes ~",ith
the supporting under structure allowing for later additional of grab bars
and possibly walling in a full dining room when that becomes necessary.
The building itself that we're thinking would have three different ty~es
. of units. One bedroom units of abotit 650-700 square feei. One bedroom
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plus a den unit which would be 850-900 square feet. And two bedroom
units of about 900 to 1,100 square feet. The building should also
contain at least one handicapped unit. We'd like to see wide hallways
and a garden type structure so that there are either french or sliding
glass doors to access pafios and balconies on the second level. Possibly
adding a third level which would contain solariums and the larger two
bedroom units. For services and amenities, that's something I'd like to
have a discussion about. I think that we'd like to have more input.
What we~re finding is that in addition to the gardens and the 'library
community room, craft shop, there might also be an oppo~tunity to provide
some linen and laundry services. In unit storage is being recommended in
each of the units. And workshops, craft facilities are some of the
things that come to my mind. i know that you've looked at a project in
Mankato since we last met and I'd like to find out what you liked and
what you didn't like about the project and I'd also like to recommend
that you all visit a project called Copperfield Hill. It's located in
Robbinsdale. The project has aged in place since it was constructed and
theY have added grab bars onto the sides of the hallways which are very
nice wood bars and they also now have added grab bars in the bathrooms
for those clients that require them. But basically the project contains
many of the components we would like to see built in place in this
project. I think it would be worth while your looking at it. The draft
of the report should be ready next week or the week after next for
presentation to the City and then we need to set up a formal pres~ntation
to you. But before I finish it I'd really like input about amenities and
services that you think are absolutely required.
Montgomery: Okay, who has a response for Gayle? What would you like to
see in a place that you would move into for your various help? What
would you like' to see? Anybody.
Howard: Well I think, are you saying that they all definiteiywill have'
laundry facilities? Not everyone but a community.
Gayle Davidge: Laundry on each floor, yes.
Howard: We're talking about a highrise thing?
Gayle Davidge: Well I'm thinking that we'd like to go up two levels.
Two levels allows a lot of flexibility within the structure of the
building for atrium and allowing in light in large expandable spaces for
community rooms. If the building were to go up to a third floor. that
third floor wo~ld be utilized for solariums and the larger two bedroom
unit.
Howard: Are you speaking of garages in the basement?
Gayle'Davidge: Garages. Either tuck under garages or garages under
ground. Fully secured with elevator access and storage in the garages.
Bragg: Have you given up on the idea of cottages Or little separate
units?
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November 20, 1992 - Page 9
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Gayle Davidge: ...for active seniors. The down side to doing cottages
in this market is that as seniors age in place and requi~e servic,s, th~y
s.ren't available which woul.d require the person to move again. The
interviews that we conducted both with seniors and pastors and iealtors
indicates that people do not want to move. If they move once, they.don't
want to have to move again and that's why the concept of the cottages
fell by the wayside. It didn't seem to make sense long term. Looking 10
or 20 years down the road. .
Howard: Can you tell me why? If they had call buttons and so on, why
would they have to move again?
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Gayle Davidge: If you develop a project which has an emergency call
system and no other support services, you find tha,t as you age you
require, a lot of people require other services. Some mornings perhaps
their arthritis is bad. They get up. They're unable to dress themselves
. or they fall and no one is there to check dnthem or the~ no longer wish
to prepare or because of again arthritis, which actually is a big
crippler of the elderly, are unable to prepare food and don't have access
to a meal program. It's true that in a cottage you can have those
services catered and brought to you but then you begin isolating yourself
because you're no longer able to get out and be active like you once
were. For example your sight could fail and you're no longer able to
drive. Then you require someone to drive you to and from and to rely on
a transportation service to get to another facility.
Howard: Has there been, any thought of a central building that contains
the amenities? A core building.
Gayle Davidge: A core building with side structures off to it?
Howard: And that cottages around it.
Gayle Davidge: We discussed that and that's something we'll discuss
again with Arvid Ellness. We would need a large site for that. A very
large site and it takes a lot of land mass todevel~p the number of units
that we see needed in the market.
Montgomery: How much larger site does something like that require?
Gayle Davidge: Well if you're developing 70, 80 or 90 units, and you'ye
looking at a site, how large is that site? 4 acres? 5 acres? You can
do that in a structure that goes up 2 or 3 levels on 4 or/ 5 acres. To do
individual units you'd easily have, to double or triple the acreage in
order to still have the surrounding gardens for vegetables and flower
gardens and patios that were mentioned by everyone that they would like
to have.
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Krauss: This is kind of a, this is not a highrise. It's nota low. I
mean you might call it by suburban standards a lowrise or midri~e type of
building~ If it's 2 or 3 stories up, well look at HeritagePatk
Apartments. That's 3 stories high and has underground garages. That'~
the highest it would ever be and it may be a sto~y lower than that.
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Howard: I know so many people that have to think of 3 plates whatever
they buy. Whatever they do.
Krauss: Well these would be elevators.
Howard: They all have elevators but you have to go get the basket.
8ring it to your car. Get the, and the basket probable isn't there.
Gayle Oavidge: Well we envision that the elevators would go into the
garage and they would b. able to go.
Howard:
basket.
They do. The point is, it's still a chore. You have to get the
You're not in your own place.
Gayle Oavidge: You're not in your own garage where you can open the door
and just truck straight into the kitchen.
8i11ison: You mentioned a few minutes ago about a tuck under garage.
Would that be the same as these manor homes that they're putting up there
right next to each other but they also have a single tuck under garage.
Gayle Davidge: Single tuck under? The ~aragethat we really would like'
to see is a fully secured under ground garage that's well lit and has
elevator access.
Howard: Where everyone just gets a slot.
Gayle Davidge: Where everyone.
Howard: Just like an apartment.
Gayle Davidge: Yeah. Has their individual space.
St. John: You weren't talking about the three level and the atrium and
light if they're on the third floor and everything. Would that be
something like Presbyterian Homes, former Twin 8irch? We have friends
living there and that is a beautiful place.
Gayle Davidge: Yeah,they have a solarium up on the third floor which is
just a wonderful idea and then it still allows you to have a central
atrium in the community area down below.. That's an idea that I like
personally arid I think works well.
Krauss: The Heritage Park Apartments was supposed to have some of those
elements and they wound up chopping it up because 6f cost but on the
third floor you can have skylights into apartments. You've got skylights
in the hallways. If you open up the building with an atrium so that
y6u're allowing natural daylight into all the floors~ you know with. the
ends being very open and airy, I personally hate the typical narrow
apartments and hallways and the darkness and it really isn't necessary
unless you~re a commercial developer and every dollar you put into it
you've got to raise the rent. We're not going to be in that kind of a
situation.
Seni6r Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 -Page 11
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Gayle Davidge: Yeah the central atrium I think is really important. It
allows light and a lot of. circulation and a lot of flexibility for using
that space as you know library, study nooks. There would need to be an
office in there for an on site per'son as well as pastors in the community
mentioned they'd like to have an office in the building that they coGld
use to minister to their parishoners. And off of that you would have a
dining facility which could be used for a community potlucks or community
Friday night dinner nights. And so just really e.ncourage a lot of
socialization within the building.
Montgomery: We'Ye not talking about having a dining'r'oom for the
residents?
Gayle Davidge: Not in the beginning. 'I would like to see the ceiling .
and floor and the wall studs in place so that that could become a dining
room 10 or 15 years down the road when it~s necessary. But initially I
think it would be nice to have the kitchen in place for use by residents
and also by caterers who come in to cater like the Friday night di~ner or
whatever's decided upon in the building.
Montgomery: What were some of the other things that most of us approved
of on that original study that we were looking at?
Gayle Davidge: Transportation was one.
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Kubitz: One meal a day at least we wanted.
Montgomery: Yeah here it is. We said transportation. Two bedroom
units. Elevator. Single level or two stories. Pull cords and then for
7 was meal plan. I mean the eight of us wanted apparently, or eight
people wanted the first ones I mentioned., . Then we're down to 7 'on meal
plan. Community room. And then 6 were for exercise room. 4 for nurse
on site. And then there were fewer for the ones down below. Dining
area. Storage space. Underground garage. Townhome cottage design~
Housekeeping service. And then thera was only one for handicapped
accessible and garden in yard.
Gayle Davidge: We've updated that now. We've gotten some more input
from the senior club and some of those have changed slightly. But we are
recommending transportation, elevators, full security, emergency pull
system, a meal program which will be phased in.
Howard: In 15 years?
Gayle Davidge:
immediately as a
the residents in
really should be
I'd actually like to see the meal program begin
one meal, once a week and then feed intoth~ program as
the building desire it. I think that's a decision that
driven by the residents needs and desires and not...
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Montgomery: How does the meal program work?
Gayle Davidge: We're recommending that the meal plan be on an offer
basis ,which is the meal would be offered at a certain price and YOU buy
which meals you want on which days. And to start, it would only be
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.Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 12
offered one day a week. One meal a week and could be then incr~ased to ~
or 3 nights a week and possibly adding lunches later which is why we'd
like to see a kitchen in the project. A full kitchen and dini~g area.
Montgomery: Now is this delivered then to each apartment? Is that the
idea?
Gayle Davidge: No. It would be in the community dining area.
Montgomery: I see. Sort of like a congregate dining thing on 6ontract.
Gayle Davidge: Exactly like congregate dining, yes. Only on a contract
basis. And the building itself as a garden area design would also be
along the concept of a congre~ate building. Meaning that in the
beginning the services would not be offered but they would be available
later. You now the structure of the building would allow for them to
come in later.
St. John: When you mentioned meals, you were talking about evening meals
instead of lunch?
Gayle Davidge: Evening correct, instead of lunch.
Krauss: The likelihood though that we're going to be pro~iding, as this
thing gets developed and as the senior center hits it's stYide, I think
you're going to see more luncheon meals being offered through" here. I
don't know that yoU want to duplicat~ the lunches per se.
St . John: No, no. Not that but I was Just thinking, most of the 'people,
elderly especially, don't want such. full meal at night. It's more
their concern about having a good lunch meal.
Howard: Friendship Village has a nice arrangement. You buy so many
meals a month, like a coupon book to be used when you want them.
St. John: Presbyterian Homes have their's at noon too.
Gayle Davidge: A lot of facilities do that and that's something I would
encourage the residents in this facility to discuss at length. That's a
determination that really is driven by the people who are living there.
Krauss: Eaeh of the units would have a full size, functional kitchens.
Not kitchenettes and they're being designed to be larger than ~hatyou
might find in other senior projects. Like the one in Hankato struck me
for how small those units were.
Gayle Davidge: These units are really designed to be like market rate
apartments and have all of the features that market rate apartments have.
with the addition of the flexibility of the building to later become a
full congregate facility not requiring residents to move onto some other
type of board and care or rooM and lodging.
Montgomery~ What were some of the items that the people in the club for
instance mentioned that was important to them.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1~92 - Page 13
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Gayle Davidge: They were pretty consistent with the findings from you
people and other seniors in that they wanted a secured building. They
would 1 ike an emergency call system, tr ansport,ation, meals, .someone. on ,
site that is knowledgable about when you need to call in medical help and
also ideally who would be familiar with filing the necessary forms.to
access funds from the various federal, local and state agencies. It was
pretty consistent with what you mentioned.
Montgomery: How many, let's see, did you say how many units are we
thinking about?
Gayle Davidge: That hasn't been completely determined but it's going to
be somewhere over 70,units initially.
Bragg: And where?
Howard: You mentioned 4 acres. Where is this 4 acres?
Krauss: I was just going to say we haven't picked it.
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Gayle Davidge: Yeah it hasn't been picked. That's part'of Phasell
which we'll start going into in the next couple ofweeks~ And in phase
II is When most of the design feat~res getiolidified. Phase I which is
the portion that I'm discussing with you really has to do just with
generalized overall concept of what the market will support. What will
work effectively within the market. Phase II is when, we b~ginto wor.k
with the architect and solidify design issues and structure and that type
of thing.
Montgomery: Do you feel that the market will support the rental of 70
units right away or is this going to be over a period of time?
Gayle Davidge: Well by 1995 and since there's no site selected yet,
construction probably wouldn't start for 1 to 2 years. Yeah I think the
market will absorb them right away. There's a lot of pent up demands.
Sojourn indicates that they've had, in the last 2 years have doubled
'their clients. Both of the Pastors indicated that they have people in
their parish discussing the need to move from their residence b.cause
they're no longer able or Willing to maintain them. They'd like more
time to travel and less time to do home repair and maintenance and so I
think there's a good pent up demindfor a project 'of this size.
Montgomery: Do you think that's enough?
Bragg: I made not. in the last week's Sun Sailor newspaper that
Shorewood was now looking very hard at developing senior housing.
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Gayle Davidge: Yeah, the project that's being discussed there are two 12
unit cluster homes and they are for sale~ single level cluster homes.
They're in two groups and they're wanting to market them for$115,000~OO
and up. They're basically smaller, more conveniently designed homes so
you'd move from your present home into a different type of home.
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20. 1992 ~ Page 14
Bragg: Which you would consider sort of an interim type of housing which
would require another move. That's what you were talking about.
Krauss: Also....getting to use the equity in your home.
Bragg: Oh, you wouldn't.
Gayle Davidge: Because you're buying another.
Montgomery: Yeah because you're turning it over to another home. Did
you have any idea what the rent range would be? Let's see, I think you
did mention something here. You wer~ talking about $650.00 then up to
$900.00. Or to $1,100.00 would be the range then actually.
Gayle Davidge: Well' that's the unit sizes. That~s the square foot~ges.
Montgomery:
rent, yeah.
Oh that's right, no. What am I looking at here? Not the
Then how does that fit with expected rental?
Gayle Davidge: t..Je haven't finalized that yet.
St. John: Has anybody at this group been to Presbyterian Homes? Twin
Sirch.
Kubitz: Not for a long time.
St~ John: Well they have remodeled that and.
Gayle Davidge: That!s a nice project.
St. John: Yes it is. We have fri~nds living there.
Bragg: That's Spring Park isn't it?
St. John: It'sSpring Park.
Bragg: I know my daughter'S been urging me to look at Amesbury and I
drove over there. That's so deluxe in there that I thought that's
probably very. very expensive. I haven't inquired.
Hoto.Jard: That is expensive. And that's in the Greenwood area.
Krauss: Is that a market rate project?
Bragg: I don't know. They have everything from apartments to condo...
courts. Courtyard.
Gayle Davidge: That's a campus kind of idea.
Bragg: It's a campus idea, yeah.
Gayle Davidge: It's a campus project. Which was the other, it was
another idea we thought about a campus but in this market. I think really
having a single facility is.
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 15
Bragg: And I was also concerned about the location of where you thought
you would place this' because I think you should be walking distance to
some spots. Beautiful spots. Parks or whatever.
Krauss: Grocery stores.
Bragg: Grocery stores and so it really does kind of, if you're going to
have that type of thing, you really hav. to look at where you're going to
place that to make it desir,eable" I
Gayle Oavidge: Yeah we'll look at sites in Phase II and I know that we
talked about sites last time we met. Some of the options for sites.
Krauss: In terms of, I mean I sense that some of you are a little
concerned that this isn't, it's not coming ~~t,right now to be the
cottage type of thing that we had discussed. I ask you to keep'a little
bi t of an open mi nd. I mean nobody wants a. project that looks Ii ke the
one down the road in Eden Prairie. A typical stark highrisebut I
think... Arvid Ellness is pretty .creative and I think he can take this
concept and show you a way it can be designed that I think you'll find
kind of exciting. We're finding more and more too that things are
starting to happen real fast in downtown Chanhassen and we clearly have a
limited number of sites because we need it in the tax increment district.
And ~>Je' re almost needi ng to peddle real fast here so that ~>Je can lock up
a site before somebody plants a Perkins on it.
Heinlein: My son mentioned this fact that he thought would be just
perfect for something like that.
Howard: Where is it?
Heinlein: Right up here along with the, it would fit in with the area
thatwe now have. I don't know, I couldn't place it mys~lf. I'm going
to have him show it to me tomorrow.
Krauss: Yeah, if it's the farm right across the street,. it's one of the
sites we're talking about.
Gayle Davidge: And that site would really be nice 'to have planted with
vegetable, flower gardens, walking paths.
Howard: Only one person on this surVey mentioned garden...
Gayle Davidge: But you find too that the landscaping surround the
buildi~g needs to be in keeping with a very residential look and feel.
Howard: That's true. That's different from gardening though.
Gayle Davidge: And that's part of what we're' talking about but also to
allow people who want to garden to be able to do so.
Bragg: As an activity.
Gayle Davidge: As an activity. So we'd have land.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20. 1992 - Page 16
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Howard: So you'd have patches set in back somewhere that they could ea6h
make a little garden.
Gayle Davidge: Or in front. Wherever. You know or raised beds for
flowers and vegetables and if someone wanted to do that. Otherwise it
would be part of the landscaping. But the beauiy of that site across the
street is with the park developing down in front here of City Hall. it
would you know allow that landscaping to flow across and really make a'
nice set of walking trails too.
Montgomery: Would that then be across from Target?
Gayle Davidge: Yes.
Montgomery: How about the lights from Target at night?
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Krauss: They're going off at 10:30. They're focused down. They can
onl y have half a foot candle at the property 1 i ne and they turn them off,.
Besides. that has to do with a creative site plan and a building
orientation. How do you orient the building so that, because it's going
to be commercial behind it too but there's a lot of things to focus on~
The new City Center Park a~d those kinds of features. So it's a matter
of site planning. One of those things too Barbara. If you go up one
story there. you're going to look out over Target and ~ee all the way to
the Minnesota River.
Gayle Davidge: It should have a really nice view.
Montgomery: And the parking could be, I mean it wouldn't be a problem if
it's that close to downtown.
Krauss: We'd provide all the parking on site.
Montgomery: For the building itself.
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Krauss: I should touch on, one of the reasons we hired Gayle is that, 1
don't want to step on your toes but you can't always believe what people
are telling you. I mean if you ask people, what exactly do you want and
we see the same thing when you know people tell us what do you want for
Park and Recreation. Well I want a pool and I wan~ a gym wheie I can
play basketball and I,want a trail system and I want on and on and on.
Ahd we say okay, well that will cost us about $6 million. Are you
willing to pay $200.00 more a year on your house to get it? I don't want
to pay anything more. Well I think there's almost a more sensitive
process that goes on. I'Ve heard this from a number of developers with
senior housing. They build what they think people are telling them theY
want. and then when. you're actually confronted with having to make some
decisions about leaving a home, and what your own personal needs are,
it's a different question. It's not so hypothetical. It's not you
know, I'm always going to be able to drive my car and I just want to be
able to have a place I can lock up and go to Arizona for 6 months. Well,
that's nice and it works for some people but the other thing with senior
housing is you ask people that question at a point in time and it takes
--
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 17
people several years to make. a decision to move. By that time their
circumstances may be different.
GaYle Davidge: They may have become single. They may have become
somehow partially handicapped. It's a very touchy and sensitive subject.
Krauss: There's positive sides to it. They could become more
independent in terms of having broaden their horizons in dealing with
this stuff anymore.
Gayle Davidge: Through travel clubs especially. That really brings that
to the forefront.
Montgomery: I was wondering too if you've talked to people who are in
apartments to see how they like it. Maybe that's the way t6 find out.
What are their gripes if they're in some kind of housing. Is it the way
they thought it was going to be or what?
Gayle Davidge: That's real interesting. We didn't do that particularly
for this project in particular but we have done quite a bit. of that in
the past and people who have moved into what I refer to as interim
projects, are usually wanting to move. They wished they had selected a
project that would offer more flexibility or more socialization or
increase sense of security than the market rental maybe that they
selected a~d that comes up over and over again. The other thing that
comes up is gee, I already moved and I gave most of my furniture to my
daughter you know and I really can't drive my car anymore but I needmore
c~re and now I guess I'm going to have to go t6 a nursing home and give
the iest of the stu.ff up and it's very sad because it's not necessaiY if
there are projects that are designed to be flexible and to have that
network in place. Many of them have wonderful adventure clubs, travel
clubs. Either armchair travel or actual travel clubs aDd outing clubs
and encourage a lot of socialization and activity to keep the residents
very active and very healthy which is what I'm going for in this concept
is to really activate the people.who move into the project.
St. John: One thing that we have heard from our friends that is on the
complaint side is the men are not havi ngenough to do after having th'eii
own place to take care of and they move into this. One of them is busy
with the gardens, like you said and there also -is a workshop that they
can but that is one of the things that should be considered. That they
cou.ld have something too.
Kubitz: It will always be that way. There's no getting around that.
Krauss: You know, one of the advantages too to having underground
paiking. because of fire iegulations, it's all masoniY and all that. We
already turned dm",n a donation of a full wood wor ki ng shop because t4Je
have no place to put it. I know when I was out to visit my father~in-law
in Arizona, they have a ceramics room with a kiln. They have a metal
working shop and a wood working shop and these guys are in there all day
and most of the time they're just sitting around shooting the breeze but
they like to think they're doing something. They have the noisiest
equipment so it makes they feel a little better but I think that kind of
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 18
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a building offers you an ability to do that without having to disturb
other folks in their h6mes. I think clearly we'd want to provide a b~se
like that. Plus, when you go with a 2 or 3 story design, I mean typical
floorplan, wh~ch doesn't have as much open spjce for an apartment
building like Heritage...provides enough parking so that you have more
than one space for every unit. Well in a senior project you really only
need one space for every unit so that leaves you some more room down
below to put those kinds of things.
Gayle Davidge: You can put in the extra large washer and extra large
dryers to do lots of sheets and towels for e~ample. Where ~n each floor
you have individual laundry but you have the big commercial washer and
dryer in the basement as well as workshop area because you can utilize
that space, like Paul said~ .
Bragg: We saw that Mankato building had a swimming pool which was built
in after the building because it was crawl space that they cha~ged over
into that. It was a neat, really appealed to me that they had that.
St. John: . Well why would you need a commercial laundry?
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Gayle Davidge: Well it's just, you can either farm it out but if you're
going to be doing a lot of linens at a ti~e. Say you start weekly linen
service within the project so the mattresses get turned on all the beds
and all that linen then can go down and go in a large, commercial.
St. John: .. .to go into that with everybody else's and then trying to
straighten it out.
Gayle Davidge: No~ it's also for like TUgS. You know I like to wash my
rugs and I can't do them in my small washer. I have to always go down to
the coin op to wash the rugs and stuff like that. I think it's a nice
amenity to have in a building so yo~ don't have to go out to the
commercial laundry.
Krauss: Let me ask you that in terms of an amenity. I mean I would
think it might be attractive ~o,for the building to offer, yoU know
contract with a Merry Maids or something like that so that you kind of
offer a bulk price to people thing. If you want somebody to come in once
a week you know, it's $15.00 because they're here anyway.
Gayle Davidge: Right and they can you know do the heavy oleariing.. Like
they can scrub the floors and around the toilet.
Bragg: Do windows.
Gayle Davidge: Do windows, exactly.
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Howard: Speaking of space, ~xtra storage is always desireable. Lack of
storage is a big problem.
\
Gayle Davidge: Which is why we're recommending large walk-in, in unit
storage. It would be really necessary. Plus storage in the gar~ge. If
possible, it would also be nice to have extra storage on each floor but
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 19
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we'll need to look at that in the design phase.
Howard; Yeah, you can't have too much storage.
Gayle Davidge: No you really can't, you're right. Absolutely. \
Bragg: Especially when the peoplea~e moving from a house to smaller
quarters and they have so much stuff they didn't realize they were
saving.
Kubitz: ...peo~le who have given up all their crap, given up all this
and all that, and now they're sitting in their little apartment. Oh I
wish I hadn't thrown that away.
Gayle Davidge: Yeah. Another thing that's really nice about this type
of concept is you have a library and you have craft rooms and the
residents can donate or le~ve their materials in those rooms too so they
don't have to give them up or box them up. They can become part of their
life. So that's it. I'm excited to get the draft reports down and work
through that and start phase II. I'm really ready to startPhas~ II. I
think one of the things, and I mentioned this to Paul, is that we'll need
to start thinking also about a decorator and a marketing company and
those are things that you'll probably need to participate in.
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Krauss: I should add too that the City tlJanager and I have been talking
to a few people about project financing. I think you're all aware that
we t;,Jant to use tax increment financing. Without getting too.. .it seems
as though there isa f~deral program out there that offers taxc~edits
for people to invest in senior housing. And there are some guidelines
but they're not eligibility guidelines. Well they're, the units have to
be I think 30%.
Gayle Davidge: 30% of income.
Krauss: Of income yeah, which is easier to qualify for. And it offers
the city some real financial advantages doing it that way. Neither ;Don
Ashworth nor I in any way want to sacrifice our goal of not having
strings attached to qualify or you know. We don't want to make it
difficult for people to ~ome into this and apparently under the new way
of establishing guidelines, I mean you could sell your house for
$150,000.00, and that's not income. It's equity so it doesn't get
counted. YouY income may just be social security and a retirement
pension and that's the only thing that gets courited.
Gayle Davidge: Exactly, that's right~ That equity doesn't count as
income.
Montgomery: So it wouldn't be hard to meet the guidelines then?
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Krauss: No. Frankly this makes this project, if this comes off, I think
a lot more attractive to the Housing and Redevelopment A0thoritY because
just ballpark, they have the ability to do something like invest $4 or $5
million to build the project. \Takethe land, build the project, set it
up. And then you bring in these investors and th!?y give you back $2 1/2
Senior .CommissionMeeting
November 20. 1992 - Page 20
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million of it. Then the City gets to, you know we talked about things
like to take a pile of that money. You .e~ it aside. You take
$500~000.00 and invest it for the permanent maintenance of that structure
so it's always taken care of. Then the City actually gets to use the
other $2 million for anything we want to in terms of throwing it back
into general revenue so there's some real, it's starting to get fun.
1 mean it's playing games with numbers ~ut it's looking like there's some
real, it's called leveraging. I mean you don't use dollar for dollar to
build it. You're using 50 cent dollars instead.
Montgomery: And there's no, oh I don't know, problem of something being
discontinued or a program not going through or something so we find
ourselves in deault with something?
Krauss: No. We were real curious about that because what we're finding
is there's a lot of projects tha~ were built with federal government
support over 'the last 20 years, senior projects, low income projects,
that t-Jere built 'on like 20 yeartimelines with investors and now those
timelines are up' and they're selling them and want to go market ra~e.
What we would do is structure it so that at the end of that period of
time the investors were paid ou~ and the city just owned it. I mean
there's ways of fixing that.
Gayle Davidge: Thank you very much. And 1 look forward to seeing you in
e a couple of weeks t-Jhen we can all get together and go through the report.
Krauss: 1 don't know when the December meeting falls out.
Ai-Jaff: We're going to discuss that today. I don't know.
Krauss: Because Gayle was going to'getus a draft of the report after
Thanksgiving. We were going to exchange notes and probably have it
available two weeks after Thanksgiving so that makes it the second week
in December.
AI-Jaff: Yes, that would be the 11th.
Montgomery: I think weren't we talking about perhaps havihg our meeting
on the 11~h anyway because, on Friday.
AI-Jaff: Yes. That would be the second.
t10ntgomery: That was something we were going to take up to see if'that
would be a bett~r date anyway rather than just the week before Christm~s.
Shall ('Je plan it then for, to have our regular meeting on December 11th.
Okay. /
Howard: Well that will stop our changing of January one undoubtedly but
I guess that doesn't matter.
~ Krauss: Should we arrange for a visit to the...
Montgomery: Could we do it the same day? Couldn't we go after the
meeting or something? The Robbinsdale.
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 21
Krauss: I'll try, yes.
(There was discussion back and forth regarding the December meeting
da te . )
Howard: Why are people that busy a week before Christmas?
Montgomery: Well maybe they're not. We were just going to discuss it
but Gayle want~d to report to us. Wasn't that the idea?
Bragg: Maybe some of these people that come to our meetings are mOre
available earlier, even if we have more time. I don't know.
Howard:. I unde~stoodshe'd have it ready after Thanksgiving but does it
have to be done immediately?
Montgomery: Alright, is there anybody in particular who wants to have it
on the 11th? Is there any need then~ if we're not going to try to
accommodate Gayle, then is there any reason we can't have it on the 11th?
I mean on the 18th. Shall we just have it then?
Heinlein: Well when did she suggest, the 11th?
Kubitz: She said the 11th would be good with her but that's only an hour
or so.
Montgomery: But that means two meetings.
AI-Jaff: We can have a short agenda.
Howard: Well if we have it the 11th, which I don't care one way or the
other but we will not have Senior Center Board meeting before it because
that day is chalk full of things. They have a matinee at the theatre
and.
Montgomery: Well maybe we should just stick with the 18th then. Our
regular meeting time and then. have a spe6ial meeting if necessary and try
tha t.
AI-Jaff: I'll have an agenda ready for you but I'm not going to be at
the next meeting if we hold it on the 18th.
Montgomery: On the 18th?
AI-Jaff: Correct. I have a seminar that 1 have to go to so I'm sure
Dawn or Paul...and usually Barbara knows everything that's on the agenda
in advance and we discuss it so I'm sure.
Heinlein: You mean you won't be with us on our last meeting day?
AI-Jaff: Well, that's why I thought you were going to have it on the
11th.
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 22
Montgomery: Okay, let's take a vote. See how many, knowing all of the
facts here, how many would like to have it on the 11th?
Howard: I don't care. We just won't have a report from the Advisory
Board but that's alright. That's just one little thing. That doesri't.
matter.
Montgomery: That's a majority then to have it on the 11th. Okay then
we'll just have to have a report in 3anuary I guess.
Howard: Yep. Alright, then we will do it on the l~th~ Everybody make a
note.
St. John: And this is for this meeting and going to Copperfield.
Montgomery: No, we haven't decided what we're going to do about
Copperfield yet. Shall we talk about that?
Howard: Let's do it the same day.
Montgomery: After the meeting to Copperfield?
Howard: I'm missing all my wood carving if we do Fridays all the time.
Montgomery: But I mean if we go after the meeting.
~
Howard: Well I'm already missing it by the meeting so.
Montgomery: Well you'll have to change the day of the wood carving.
Okay~ shall we take a vote on that. How many would like to go after the
meeting to the Copperfield place in Robbinsdale? Okay. 5.
St.30hn: Of course we have to have lunch i~there.
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Montgomery: If that's possible~
Bragg: Bring a bag lunch.
/
Al-3aff: I'll give you the details with the agenda. I'll send you the
details of what we're going to do.
Montgomery: Okay see if we can do that and then you can make the
arrangements.
Al-3aff: So we would leave here, do you think we could get done aroGnd
11:30 with our agenda? If it was a short agenda.
Montgomery: We can plan it that way~
AI-3aff: Okay. So if a bus would pick us up at 11:30, then we can be
there by maybe 12:00. Or would you rather leave earlier. I don't know
if we can go through the agenda.
Senio~ Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 23
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Montgomery: If we're going to have Gayle, I don't knpw. Maybe we could
do it sooner.
AI-Jaff: Okay, let's play it safe. Let's go with the 11:30. Get there.
hopefully by 12:00 and spend maybe a couple of hours there and then back.
Howard: Oh we didn't spend over an hour at Mankato did we?
AI-Jaff: But we were rushing it. We got to the point where I said, we
have to leave.
Montgomery: Where does the lunch come in here?
Bragg: Bag lunch. Box lunches is a nice deal.
Montgomery: Why don't we try to finish the meeting by 11:00 and then we
could just eat a box lunch and then go.
Howard: We don't have to.have much of an agenda in December do we?
Montgomery: No, I d6n't think so.
(There. were sever.al discussions 90ing on at one time at this point.)
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Montgomery: As long as we're talking about the meeting, do we want again
to bring things for people? Remember we brought some can stuff or what
was it we did? 00 you want to do that again?
Bragg: Yeah, I'd like to do that.
Montgomery: How about clothing or kid stuff or something? Could we
bring something? I mean what kind of pick-up do you think?
AI-3aff: Well we could have canned food and then I'll just make sure it
gets to Carver County.
Montgomery: And how about clothing?
AI-Jaff: We could do that.
Montgomery: Or toys.
AI-Jaff: Toys, that would be wonderful. That would be great.
St. John: That is from our Commissi~n?
Montgomery~ Yeah. Just bring stuff when we come to the December
meeting. In fact we could talk to our neighbors and bring their stuff
too.
e Howard: We're not going to do gifts like we did last year?
Bragg: No.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 24
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Montgomery: Nothing planned, okay_
AI-Jaff: We're not going to have the little, every person brings one
gift and, we're not going to do that? Okay. It's up to you.
Montgomery: Well let's see. Are we all settled now? Have we got this
all straight? Okay.
UPDATE ON SENIOR CITIZEN COMMISSION VACANCIES.
AI-Jaff: Okay. I enclosed in your agendas a copy of what went in the
newsletter.
Montgomery: The only problem is that we have 3 vacancies.
Kubitz: And you've got 2. You only advertised for'2.
AI-Jaff: Do we have 3?
Kubi tz: 1, 2, 3.
Montgomery: Yeah, Betty, Emma and Selda.
Howard: Have you had any applications Sharmin?
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AI-3aff: Not yet.
Howard: I spoke yesterday to Mark Liftin's father and he was going to
check with his wife. I was urging him to do it. I said we could use a
man on the Commission and he is retired and very active in the city and I
think with persuasion, tell Mark to tell him to do it. That he would do
it and he would be a very good one.
Montgomery: Even if you advertised for 2. We can accept more than 2,
but we need to do something to get some interest I suppose.
Howard: Yeah, I haven't heard anything from anyone. The same went in
the Villager.
Montgomery: Yeah, I saw that. Well maybe each of us should contact
somebody.
Howard: Another person that was mentioned was Al Olson who's been in.the
senior center. He would ,be another one someone could approach.
Bragg: Twist his arm. Get him to come.
Howard: Could we have some applications down in the center.
e AI-3aff: :r could do that. I could bring a few down.
Howard: r could have given him one yesterday. He receptive.
was
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 25
Kubitz: People who drop in just for flyers, you might be able to get
them too that way.
Montgomery: Are there any people in the card group that are interested
do you think that might want to be o~the Commission?
AI-Jaff: You might want to start spreading the word around.
Kubitz: I think if we had some applications down in the center.
Bragg: As you're getting acquainted you know, you know some people that
you think would be fit in very well.
Howard: Yeah, there might be someone you wouldn't want on there too so I
don't think you should just randomly pick people out.
AI-Jaff: Well everybody has the right to apply and then out of those,
what we're going to do is probably bring it in front of you. You would
make a recommendati6n and then that recommendation would go in front of
the City Council and the Council will appoint those commissioners.
Montgomery: Of course we didn't have much luck with the Advisory Board
doing that but we'll.
AI-Jaff: We'll tyy.. Usually the, Commission we have more committed
people. r don't mean the Advisory Board are not committed. Don't
misunderstand me please.
Bragg: I'll be sorry not toibe involved with it but it's good to see it.
St. John: Especially now it's getting so exciting with this housing and
everything.
Montgomery: Well people we'd better get on with it here. Sheroiare you
going to do a report for us?
UPDATE ON SENIOR CENTER ADVISORY BOARD ACTIVITIES.
Howard: Okay. I forgot to say when I came in, I was late. I may have
to leave at 11:00 so I'll do this fast. Dawn is just doing a superb job.
It's easy for all the rest of us because she's doing all the work but I
can tell you some of the things that are going to be new. They are
starting, I think in Oecember with a men's breakfast which will be .very
other week. One morning.
Kubitz: January 4th.
Howard: Is that January that's starting? And in December we're having a
Christmas party which you should all come to on the 12th. An open house
but we do have a sign up sheet so perhaps we can get a general idea of
how many might be there. And that's the 12th and that is free. You just
bring yourself. On the 24th we're having a potluck which also has to be
signed up foy at 4:00. And those are the only things before Chri~t~as.
Then in January the breakfast start. There also will' be a book cltib on
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Senior Commission Meetlng
November 20, 1992 - Page 26
the first meeting will be the 12th of January at 7:30 in the evening. 6h
I forgot to mention. On our Senior Outreach, trying to help people. We
pretty much decided last time that we are going to contribute on
Christmas Eve to the Gateway House, which is a house on Highway 5 for
wayward boys. It's right aroundTH 41 there in a house and we may work
into having the 4H help us with the baskets. Oelivering and soon, so we
will get that done for Christmas. We're going to start, Dawn isgoing.to
start quarterly Saturday night dinners and they will have entertainment.
Supper and entertainment and the first one will be February 6th. Then on
the 24th is the luncheon with the pharmacist. The 24th of Februari. So
see we don't have to have this report in December. We're up to February
already with the luncheon with the pharmacist there which really fits in
with today's meeting. We also received money from the City, or Park and
Recso we now have some operating cash which is taking all the pressure
off. And I guess, can you think of anything else Jane? Or Selda? Or
Bunny?
Billison: I think you covered all the important stuff.
Howard: ...called me last night. She has money she took home with her.
There's money down there. They sold some things but we also will try to
sell what we've made on the 12th in connection with the Open House.
We're going to put signs up saying.
e Montgomery:. Can you put it out somewhere so people can see it?
Howard: I think we will that day. Meantime we're going to put, just
signs up on the cases saying this merchandise is for sale to attract a
little more attention to it.
e
Montgomery: You know I noticed, I think it was in the Chanhassen
newsletter that it said something about the craft day being on Monday.
Kubitz: Yeah, craft day is going to be changed to Monday.
Montgomery: It is going to be Monday? The same time as the Men's Club?
Howard: The Men's Club is a breakfast,meeting.
Montgomery: Oh that will be over then. Ohand that's in the afternoon?
Okay. Alright.
Kubitz: ...and then she's got the center signed up for some more
children's programs...
Montgomery: When does that start on Monday instead of?
Kubitz~ In January. And I think it doesn't start until the second week
of January because the 1st is on Tuesday and then they're going to do the
candy baking.
Howard: That's December the candy making.
Kubitz: Oh wait a minute. Then maybe the crafts does start in December.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 27.
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Howard: No, crafts are on Tuesday through December Jane. On the
calendar.
Montgomery: Well I just think you've done a spectacular job. Wonderful.
Howard: I just can't give Dawn enough credit. That is so nice. It
takes all the pressure off. .It takes care of everything.
Heinlein: We started at 9:00 and we were out of there at 10:30.
Bragg: Another thing I'd like to compliment. I already complimented you
alr~ady once today in this meeting but I also want to compliment you on
the way you presented it in the, not the Sailor. The Villager because
now you're using the same format South Shore has and you have. your's
first and your's looks so exciting. It just looks really good.
Kubitz: There again, Dawn took over with that. And of course she puts
her fingers in the pie, it goes.
Bragg: That should go on her efficiency report.
Montgomery: Yes, you need to let her know.
AI-Jaff: I'll make sure of that. I'll make her a copy of the Minutes
e and say , must read.
Montgomery: Anything else Sherol?
Howard: No, I think that's it.
. VPDATE ON SENIOR. ANSWER LI~E (SAL).
Bragg: On December 8th, in the mo~ning, the Senior Advisory group of
Carver County is going to meet with the County Commissioners to discuss
Senior Answer Line and in the month of November we had no official
meeting because we had a subcommittee that worked out the exact cost of
every item that has to do with Senior Answer Line, and I imagine you were
involved weren't you Sharmin?
AI-Jaff: Yes.
Howard: Are we going to receive notice of this meeting?
Bragg: You will receive notice of the meeting. It will be the 8th in
the morning. I have an idea Barbara will also be involved. She's be~n
invited by phone, right?
Montgomery: Well Sharmin, but I think anybody. I don't know.
e
Al-Jaff: It would be nice if the entire commission could attend that
meeting.
Bragg: That's a Tu~sday the 8th of December. The subcommittee was
headed by Margo Heath who directs the Nursing Home over in Chaska and
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 28
she's very familiar with meeting credentials for political affairs and so
I think that's why it was nicely done in a hurry. I was not involved
with it. ,I appointed a committee so I'm very happy that it's moving
along so well~ And on the new commission, one of the new electees is
Ursula Dimler who has always taken a great interest in activities of the
seniors. And then another one that is important to us is Tracy Swanson
who has been on the commission for a long time. So we have two really
good advocates for us, and I have an idea it will all pass. I'm.
optimistic. That's all I have to say.
Montgomery: Well that sounds great. Anything Sharmin?
AI-Jaff: Ves please. First of all, when we appear in front of the
County Commission on the 8th~ this is the day they're going to do theiT
truth in taxation. I don't know if this item is going to receive as much
attention as the truth in taxation. I was hoping that we could still
stay on the first but that's out of the question. The Commission was
going to review our item on the 1st of December but that fell through.
Bragg: This is as close as they could get.
AI-Jaff: Correct. We're going to have to appear on the 8th. I have
spoken to Ursula about Senior Answer Line. Brought her up to date. But
she is nota voting member until January. I had a meeting with Gary Bork'
and the rest of the subcommittee at Carver County. One of the things
that w~ discussed was the County paying for whoever is going to direct
the program in Chanhassen. Base the entire program in Chanhassen and the
CoOnty would pay the wages. The County would pay for the phones. We
. still haven't identified who is going to direct the Answer Line in
Chanhassen yet. Julie Bentz is very excited and she said that we're
doing all her work for her. This has never, ever happened before.
Usually she has to take it all step by step. I asked her when we would
need to appear in front of the, of her Board. Of he+ Council and she
said, there's no need. She said that she would take care of all of that.
That it won't .,be a problem. So that's where we're at with it. I haven't
been able to, Julie and I have been playing phone tag for the past week.
I also wanted to bring this to your attention. It's an article that I
passed around and it's a new service called BOON and basically it does
the same thing that Senior Answ~r Line does.
Bragg: That's the reason why Margo Heath, who is very active with the
Minnesota Board of the AgIng was a good person to chair the subcommittee
because she knew about this. I was a little worried that she was. going
to say, well this is a better program but I think that the fact that we,
we gave such strong support to it, that she went along with it.
Montgomery: Don't you think that this actually needs our program to tie
into it. I mean this can only go so far and then they have to have the
local referral you know. So then where are they? So I think that's
fine.
AI-Jaff: I need to find more detail on this program and that's why I
need to speak to Julie. r really feel strongly that I need to speak to
Julie and I'll do that definitely before the December 8th meeting.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992, - Page 29
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Montgomery: Do you think there'd be any value in postponing that until
January if we need Ursula and Tracy?
AI-Jaff: The reason why we need the vote on the 8th is because they're
approve the budget and we need a certain allocation. But Gary Bork, who
is the Director of Social Services was very supportive of the program and
I was very happy with the outcome of the meeting. I was very pleased.
And I came back and discussed the outcome with Don Ashworth, the City
Manager and Paul and they realI, want to work with the County.
(There was ,a tape change at this point in the meeting.)
FRAUDS AND SCAMS AGAINST SENIORS AND PREVENTION TACTICS.
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Montgomery: I have had quite a bit of experience with this with a
relative who lives in California who just got ripped off fairly well and
the more I talked about it to people, the more I find they all have
relatives or somebody they know who have been victims of one sort of scam
or another. Like repair people who really rip people off or ,tele~
marketing or some of that stuff. So I did get some material from the
Attorney General,'soffice and I think~ I don't know whether we have some
other stuff or not but I thought we might want to tak~ a look~t it and
see if there's something that we think we can do that might be helpful.
We may not be able to make that decisiori today but, there was some
interesting things in here. There should be some booklets in there too.
Then in connection with this there's a number, did you make a copy of
that too Sharmin of this consumer, this80a number?
AI-Jaff: Yes. That's what I'll passin~ around.
Montgomery: Oh,alright. I can vouch for this number being absolutely
wonderful because I used it and r ended up talking to somebody who was
extremely helpful. All the way out in California and so I know that this
does work. And if you know anybody who is looking for some help, that
800, number for the National Consumers League is just wonderful. I just
thought it was a real bon~s to have that available. Now I don't know how
we can use all this stuff or how we 'can pass the word around but I guess
what I'd like you to do is take a look at it and just see. Think aboui
it and maybe at our next meeting we could talk about it some more and see
what we can do to try to prevent it here. Sharmin?
AI-Jaff: I was thinking of putting this material in the senior center.
Howard: Yes, I was just going to suggest that~
Bragg: I was going to suggest maybe you could even have an informational
meeting at one of your luncheon meetings where you talk about this and
get feedback.
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Howard: I'll suggest it to Dawn.
Montgomery: I talked to somebody in the Attorney General's office, a
couple of people who are very, very nice and they said they had had a lot
of cutbacks themselves s6 their time wasn't all that free but that they
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 30
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are available to come out and talk to groups. But they didn't want to
talk to anybody unless there were at least 50-100 people there and they
prefer that you coordinate it with some other community or som. other
group or something, and also with the media. ...There are a lot of
possibilities and I think we should use them.
Howard: I found something out this last week. The young gal who cleans
for me thinks she was taken last weekend. Thought she had won a prize
trip for $398.00 and she gave them her VISA number. She called VISA from
my house and they told her t~at after you ~ign something, you have 3
business days to retract it and you notify them that you are doing this
and notify VISA BOYOU can retract this within 3 days. 3 business days
if you find out it's a scam.
Montgomery: If you have their telephone number.
Howard: Well she called, now let me see. When she gets the bill she
gets 3 days I think it was. There's some way you can undo it.
)
Montgomery: They said in the Attorney General's office that tele-
marketing scams right now were their worst problem. they had lots of
problems but that was really terrible right now and that people Were just
getting taken by the millions you know. Just really taken and then they
use the credit card number too besides. So anyway, think about it. See
e what we can do.
Bragg: I enjoy reading through some of these steps to take. Where it
says, throw the postc~rd away. That's the first thing you do, a~d I have
done that so many times and people say but oh, look at the opportunity. I
say, if it's for free I'm very dubi6us.
Howard: If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Bragg: It is, that's right.
CALLING NETWORK FOR FRAIL ELDERLY.
Montgomery: Well let's get onto the next one here which I think is
something that I think, was it Betty mentioned to me, or one of y6u.
Howard: I think I did.
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Montgomery: You did Sherol, about
network th.t we could establish to
talking about active 55 yearolds.
really be fr,ail.
Howard: That would be people who you might have to contact them but who
would want to be signed up. . It. just wouldn't be all seniors or anything.
In Anoka the police department's doing it. Is our police department too
b0sy to do t~is? Sharmin?
calling. Some kind of a calling
reach frail elderly. We're not
We're talking about people who are
AI-Jaff: I'm sorry.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 ~~Page 31
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Howard: Is our police department too busy to make say a dozen calls
the morning to check on frail elderly?
AI-Jaff: I don't know.
Howard: The police department in Anoka does this. So it'd be one way to
handle it. It would be a very simple way.
AI-Jaff: What I can do is check with our police department and see if
, they have the time to do it. But if it's only 12 calls.
Howard: Well, how many frail elderly would we have that would have to be
checked every day? I doubt if there'd be more than a dozen.
Bragg: I remember when you made a report from ~ convention you went to.
talking about the Swedish system and you said that the postmen were the
ones who made thecal1s because they were out there making calls anyway
and I remember thinking, that is the neatest idea but how many of our
postmen are not on foot usually.
Montgomery: Well right, they're mailboxes.
Bragg: Right, they're mailboxes and they can't tell as much.
e Montgomery: Unless the. mai I' s pi led up.
Bragg: And we don't have milkmen anymore. I guess the police ~~e the
most logical.
Montgomery: Well maybe that's the first step we can take and then.
Howard: Do we have a permanent fire staff? Fire station.
Kubitz: No, they're all volunteer.
Howard: They're all volunteer? We don't have any permanent.
AI-Jaff: Mark Litfin is the only.
Howard: And he's the safety one.
AI-Jaff: He's the Fire Marshal. What he does is he goes, I mean if we
had a fire alarm go off, he would be on site but at the same time. he
educates.
Howard: Does he have any department here? Any help or anythin9 during
the day?
A.I-Jaff: No.
e Heinlein: He's strictly volunteer as the fire department is.
Howard: Well he spoke to us on safety in the home or something one time.
But if he's the only one. I thought maybe there was someone that worked
Senior Commission ~eeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 32
--
with him that could make these calls.
AI-Jaff: No, Mark is it.
Montgomery: You know speaking of that, maybe it's time to do that elder
alert thing again. You know that vile that he gave us. Maybe we could
do. that aga1 n.
Al-3aff: I'll check with Mark on that.
St. John: The Senior Club, I don't know does Dorothy still do the
calling?
Howard: Yeah.
St. John: When my dad was by himself, every Monday thru Friday she would
call at 9=00 and she would call all those that belonged to the club that
were living alone.
Howard: She still does.
st. John: Not on Saturday or Sundays but if we would be gone for the
weekend, I would ~all her and then she would also call on Saturday and
Sunday. Just to check to see that he would come and answer the phone and
e he was alright.
Bragg: St. Hubert's has a designated person too that makes calls like
that.
B111180n: And Southdale, Fairview Southdale Hospital. All the hospitals
do that. They have volunteers that sit there every morning and call
these people.
St. John: How do they get these names though?
Billison: That I don't know but they do have.
St. John: See Dorothy. that is just those in ihe club.
Howard: 00 they call allover? For anyone in the Twin Cities area.
Bil11son: I'm sure they will because they have 3 or 4 ~olunteers. They
:sit at a long table.
Heinlein: I imagine that they were patients in the hospital and probably
went home after that.
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Bragg: And of course it's the parish that would designate someone so if
you didn't belong to that parish. But that's something maybe the
churches could think of doing too.
Montgomery: Well let's start with the ~ublic safety part and see if that
will work and if that won't, then maybe we can find volunteers in
another.
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S~nior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 33
Bragg: And hand it over to some of the churches too to do.
Howard: I don't think it's feasible to call everyone that lives alone.
Although living alone, every once in a while you get panicked but I think
this would have to be just for the very frail.
Montgomery: Okay, let's ~tart with that and see what we need to do next.
Okay, we've already covered the next item, which was the scheduling of
the holiday meeting.
SCHEDULING OF THE DECEMBER HOLIDAY MEETING~
Kubitz: Can I ask something there? What did that do to the January
meeting? Because if you count the first Friday, which is New Years Day,
you have to come in early and we discussed this with the Advisory .Board
and we wound up forgetting New Years Day and...because that fits into
Sherol's schedule better.
Howard: Well that's unimportant, I just wouldnit be there for those
meetings.
Montgomery: Let's see January. Third meeting would be on the 19th and
there are only four Fridays.
e AI-Jaff: No. That would be on the 15th.
Montgomery; Oh, I've got February. Excuse me. Here it is. Yeah, it
would be the 15th. It could either be the 15th or the 22nd I suppose.
e
Kubitz: Well we scheduled our Advisory Board for the 20th.
Montgomery: Well I don't know. We had advertised that the Senior
Commission meets on the third Friday.. Well I don't know, should we wait
until December and then decide that. Maybe we'll have a better idea
about what we want to do. Okay, I'll write that down to do next time.
DISCUSSION OF 1992-93 GOALS.
Montgomery: Okay the next item is discussion of our goals for next year
and what we've accomplished this year. Where are we?
AI-Jaff: What I'm circulating around right now is the goals that we had
last year and where we are with th~m right now. You've basically
accomplished each and every single goal you set.
Montgomery: I That's pretty good. I think that's wonderful. We had a lot
of help I would say.
AI-Jaff: You people are amazing.
Montgomery: Yeah but I think everybody has been so cooperative. You
know how could we go wrong when everybody's working so hard, like you
'Sharmin.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 34
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AI-Jaff: The first item you had on your agenda last year was~ in your
goals, was the Senior Directory a~d that's completed and it's getting
fast outdated. That's where Senior. Answer Line should be.
Montgomery: It was just a stop gap measure right?
AI-Jaff: For next year.
Bragg: I wanted to say that the fact that we had that booklet to pass
out and find that people could respond to having something in their hands
at the County meeting was very instrumental to having them accept the
fact that we needed something that was more rapid and it would meet some
kind of a volunteers or something and that's what led to the continued
interest in it.
AI-Jaff: I do plan on bringing the directory with me to the commission
meeting and showing them that, okay we did this a year ago. Actually6
months ago.
Montgomery: And how much updating it takes.
AI-Jaff: Yes~ exactly and that's how fast things get outdated versus if
you have a computer.
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Bragg: This is the informational generation and computers are a part of
it.
Montgomery: Well and I think too, you know this service is anothef
strong indication that you really need to have then a local reference.
otherwise what good is this?
Bragg: We're actually ahead of Jerry Blanko.
Montgomery: Yeah, maybe Sh*rmin can update the directories.
AI-Jaff: The directories, no problem.
Montgomery: But then I thought we might, if we talk about it next month,
maybe we'll have other numbers we also want to put in there. .
AI-Jaff: Then I'll wait until next month. Second, are we done with this
one?
Montgomery: Yeah.
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AI-Jaff: Okay second item you had was the programming of the senior
center grand opening arid Older Americans Month. Now Older Americans
Month is an ongoing item. Every year we will have it. I have talked to
Dawn about it and I asked her, can I ,safely assume that Senior Center is
going to. take it over and she said yes. You can safely assume and say
it. So it's an ongoing item. It's one of your goals as well. And
Senior Center will be implementing the program.
Montgomery: And then they'll get the procla~ation from the Mayor?
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 35
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AI-Jaff: Correct. Well, I could do the proclamation. That's no problem
but as far as scheduling activities, recognizing seniors in the
commuhity, Senior Center is goIng to take care of that. The housing
study is in progress. You had the report from Gayle today. Idon't
think I can say more about that one. Transportation. Well we were
looking at weekend service and we have that. Well we have Saturdays.
Evening hours are available when requested by a group only. We're
working on it. We'll keep on working on it. I don't think that it's
going to be possible to just go t6Southwest Metro and say okay, we want
24 hour service, 7 days a week. That's not going to work.
Montgomery: Oh I think it's expanded a lot. You can get to Excelsior to
the senior center there.
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AI-Jaff: Correct. We have reverse commute and we donated, in your
packets you will find a letter from the Mayor. You donated $500.00 to
CART and it's to serve you again. So with transportation we will keep
working on it. I don't know if we'll ever be able to accomplish the 24
hour service, 7 days a we~k but like I said, we will continue to work on
it. We will keep trying. Reverse commute has been implemented so now
you have buses that come from Minneapolis to Chanhassen in the morning
and then back to Minneapolis in the evening. Last night r went to, \.AJe
had a goal session with Southwest Metro Transit and that ~eeting, I
promised I would not do this to my senior commission, what they Clidto us
because they locked us in a room for 5 hours'and brainstorming goals.
They do want to extend hours. I. mean that's definitely a goal~ The
seniors seem to appear on their goals repeatedly.
Montgomery: Well that's ~rogress.
AI-Jaff: Yes. They definitely want to serve the seniors. Of course
every now and then they would ask me, well what do the seniors think
about this and I was always able to give them an answer. So they do want
to provide additional service and Diane is wonderful. Diane Harberts.
I'm sure you all kno~ her. Whenever we talksh~ always says, Sharmin any
time the.seniors need anything, make sure I know about it. I'll make
sure that it happens. $0 that's where we are with transportation.
Bragg: I'd like to comment. My last job was with Workers Compensation
Rehab and we did have a lot of people that lost jobs because of injuries
and so on and there were jobs out here in this work corridor and they
couldn't get ~rom their place to here. And when I read that now it's
revel~se, they're br inging the people out here for their work, I was very,
very pleased and that's been 5 years since I've been retired. I ,knoW it
was a very big issue then so I'm happy to see that that happened.
Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 36
Montgomery: Maybe that's something we need to work on next year.
AI-Jaff: Okay. So for next year, do you want to brainstorm. You've got
3 we~ks. Put a list, a wish list of what you would like to see us work
on. What would you like to accomplish.
Howard: I thought 01 a good one and immediately forgot it.
Montgomery: Well we'll make out our wish list and bring them next time.
Bragg: I was going to make a little correction. I don't think it was
completely inactive, the heritage preservation because there was
discussion with the schools about bringing in seniors in to talk to the
youngsters to keep that connection. It's the breadth of it that is hard
to, when you start to look, where are we on this?
Montgomery: I think too we decided we'd wait until the senior center was
oP$rational and then...
AI-Jaff: Well maybe it's something that we could, I'll talk to Dawn
about that and get back to you.
e Montgomery: Chris Polster was inter$sted in doing something with that.
Bragg: And may I just say that Jim Faber who came, I missed that again.
Jim Fabe~ who came here and talked about AARP and he's the man who is
such an expert on the local history.
Howard: That was a goal for next year. Should we work on AARP?
Bragg: But Mr. Faber, I know he was lengthy because I read all of t",hat
he had to say but he's a very bright man and he's been, he has been what
he said he's been. And he would bean excellent speaker to have him come
and speak on a topic at your senior center because there are a lot of
people that are instant in history of Carver County, or especially right
around here and he could tell you that.
AI-Jaff~ Yesterday at the meeting there were two quotes that I stole
from Southwest Metro's goal session and I thought they sounded wonderful
and I wanted to bring them to you. The first one was, if you do what
you've always done, you'll get what you always gotten. And the other one
was, you can't hit a target if you don't know what you're shooting at.
So you have to set your goals. That's very important. I liked them so
much I had to share them with you. I thou~ht you might appreciate them.
Montgomery: Okay, anybody else have any thoughts about goals? Or in
fact does anybody have any comments about ~nything here?
e Howard: I do.
AI-Jaff: I do too. Go ahead Sherol.
It
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 37
Howard: Well they had this useless thing. I'mon this Community
Education met Monday night made me very aware of something that I just
thought you'd be interested in knowing. Our School District is in dire,
dire straights and I know Paul's been working with them. There have been
these committees 90in90n.
Montgomery: Now this is 112 right?
Howard: 112 is presently 32 students over capacity. Now this is without
any plans which takes several years to put into fruition so by '95, which
was their next one, they will be way overcapa~ity. They will have a
choice of using temporary classroom space which is very expensive. Hiring
it. Bringing it. Very expensive. And has no core facilities. You
don't have a lunchroom. You don't have bathrooms you know. So there
will be a referendum this spring about voting and they need $45 million
for a high school and a grade school. I asked if they had selected any
sites and he said they were considering this, I know Paul's on this
committee. You probably are too.
Ai-Jaff: Well I know all about it.
Howard: He said all these city planners and so on and on. And they said
they have some sites in mind but they're not publicizin~ it because they
bought this building, the Community Ed meets in the old main building of
Jonathan and next to it's a smaller building that housed the Minnetonka
Lab at on~ time. And that building was purchased last year for
$189,000.00 and the appraisal on it is in that neighborhood. The school
district expressed an interest in buying it and they are staying firm on
$435,000.00. $0 they said they have nothing to gain by talking about .
sites for schools. That they would be just laying themselves in for it
and one thing they mentioned was 2/3 of the homes in the school district
have no school aged children so they think they have ~ real tough project
with this referendum. And that sounds too amazing t6 be true doesn't it.
That 2/3 of the homes have no school aged children. And the worst
.cenario would be, an average house in the school district is $105,000.00
and it would raise the taxes'on a $105,000.00 house aro~nd $170.00 a
year. One way or another we're going to be in for it because this,
renting all these things will be expensive and it's a bandaid solution.
You know nothing will be accomplished so it really is going to behoove us
to vote for this referendum in the long run and I know Chaska School
District educates each pupil for about a third of what Minnetonka does so
they are not wasteful. 1 personally have some confident in their
proposals or what they say than Minnetonka just wants to have the
reputation of the best in the. .
Bragg: They pay so much for their administration that it's just like
they've got somebody out in Hollywood.
Howard: And they just thrive on spending money. It's.ridiculous. So I
do think Chaska, this school district is a lot more down to earth in
their desires and everything. I would hope a school would be, with
Chanhassen being the largest center of population, would be closer to
Chanhassen.
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 -Page 38
Bragg: I would like to see them have a high school right here in.
Howard: You don't know a city of 13,000 without a high school.
Bragg: No, you don't and they're full of children around here. Lots of
young families.
Howard: So I just wanted to draw that to your attention. This school
district includes Victoria and Chaska and Chanhassen are the three cities
that it includes.
AI-Jaff: The problem that we've always faced is Chanhassen is on the far
east of Carver County so they always say, okay. Whatever we locate,
we're going to Iodate it in a central location in Carver County where
everybody in the County could get to. That's why you hardly ever see
anything get located in Chanhassen.
Howard: Well except we have grown to the point where we're the major
population center. For instance, if they had it on the southeast corner
of TH 5 and TH 41, which is an empty spot would be a lot closer to
Chanhassen than the present one.
Kubitz: Don't they have a site picked out for a middle school out there?
AI-Jaff: Yes. In fact the map behind you, do you know where Timberwood
is?
Howard: The present high school would become a middle school and the
middle school would become a grade school. They're re-arranging
everything.
AI-Jaff: This is TH 5. This is Galpin Boulevard, 117. It would be
right .here.
Howard: What kind of school is that?
AI-Jaff: Middle school.
Howard: But that's not in the works now.
AI-Jaff: No, we do have problems with the site. There are some swamps,
wetlands on that site so it would not allow for a football field. Middle
schools need a lot of.
Howard: But I mean they're not building a middle school.
AI-Jaff: Nothing in the works but the offer stands to the County that if
they want it, it's there for them.
Montgomery: I imagine we should close our meeting unle~s somebody else
has some other.
AI-Jaff:
housing.
At the last meeting Jane requested senior directories for
Senior housing directories in the metro area. This is the most
..
~:
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Senior Commission Meeting
November 20, 1992 - Page 39
updated one. It has every single building there is and it will show you
type of services it has. Number of units...Sasically all the information
that yo~ need is in there and I'll be in touch shortly to let youknow~...
Howard moved, St. 3ohnseconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in
favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned at 11=30 a.m.
Submitted by Paul Krauss
Planning Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim