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1992 12 11 . . . CHANHASSEN SENIOR COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING DECEMBER 11, 1992 Chairwoman Montgomery called the meeting to order at 9:30 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Barbara Montgomery, Selda Heinlein, Betty Bragg, Sherol Howard, Emma St. John, Bernice Billison and Jane Kubitz STAFF PRESENT: Paul Krauss, Planning Director; Sharmin AI-Jaff, Planner I; and Dawn Lemme, Senior Progyam Coordinator APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Chairwoman Montgomery noted the Miriutesof the Senior Commission dated November 20, 1992 with the following changes: On page 3, "an hour before" should be changed to "an hour after"; on page 10, changing "3 plates" to "3 stories"; and on page 28. correcting the spelling of Marvel Heath and SAL. CALLING NETWORK FOR FRAIL ELDERLY. AI-Jaff: I presented thIs item to Scott Harr. He's the Director of Public Safety and he said, if there was an emergency, they would respond. Not...but advertisement so it's ready to go. It's just waitin9.for your approval. What we're going to do is the, after we advertise this ihthe paper, people will apply. Seniors who will apply for, to be on the calling network, will receive a phone call from the volunteers at the senior center. every day, and in case there wasn't an answer ,that's where / the Sheriff Department would respond. So this is waiting for your approval. If you think that's the way to go about it. Montgomery: Alright. Then what do you need as a recommendation from us? A motion. Okay. Is there anybody who'd like to make a motion that the Senior Commission recommend a~proval of theealling Network for the Frail Elderly as ~uggested by staff? Howard: I so move. Montgomery: Is there a second? St. John: I second it. Howard moved, st. John seconded to approve the Calling Network for Frail Elderly as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Bragg: I was talkIng with someone on Sunday about that. They were telling me some horror stories about people that have, even were wearing the telephone alerting system and that when they, one of them. had it in her purse. She'd been shopping and she tripped and fell and her purse flew way beyond her and she wasn't found for like 36 hours. There was another equally bad where they weren't able to reach the calling system and they were wearing it. And their fall pinned their arms in some way so I'm so happy that you've worked out a system because even some of the things that have been developed, you know have malfunctioned. AI-Jaff: The idea came from you. It was your suggestion. .- . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 2 (Gayle Davidge's presentation was not being picked up on the very well.) Gayle Davidge: ...Phase 1 was really just a phase to gather information from the community. Numbers and statistics that we can determine how many units and size of units that would wor k. And in that case.. .72 units with larger unit sizes than are normally found in the market or in senior housing. Howard: But you had mostly one bedroom. Gayle Davidge: Correct. Now Phase 2 is the phase that's very, very hands on~ It's a phase that requires a lot of input and a lot of direction. It involves site selection, which is critical. Where the number of units will be placed. And the architectural design. Would it be one level with a two level atrium or would it be two stories? Will it be 'configured in a configuration on the site of the project ,also determined in Phase 2. I'm really excited to go on to Phase 2. That's the intere~ting phase wher~ you have a lot of options and a lot of the different alternatives. I suppose one thing we didn't touch on last month, and it really is important, is the difference between apartments versus a bungalow. And this is something I know that Sherol mentioned. The bungalow concept works when you have a larger mass of land relatively inexpensive which generally means it needs to be developed in an outlying area. From discussions with pastors and ... ke,epers and yourselves, and others in the community, it was very apparent that the City and the community it .erved, wanted a senior project tob& near downtown so the seniors could walk to the post office and to shopping and the senior center. When you develop a project in town, the property is extremely expensive and usually the site is very small and you're not able to develop a bungalow simply because you don't have the land mass or the inexpensive property necessary to develop individual bungalows. And this is why the determination was made on our part to go with apartments versus the bungalow simply because the financial constraints and of purchasing a large number of acres in downtown Chanhassen, which I understand aren't availabl, anyway. So that's one issue I know that was brought up last month arid you wanted to try to touch on. The other item that struck me was, this project does not have to be multiple story. I actually would like to see it be single story with a 2 story atrium and 2' story community room. And again, that's a function of architectural design which comes in Phase 2. And also the site itself is finally selected. Basically I just would like to answer questions. Howard: We were given to understand there was a possibility of bungalows at the beginning. Now certainly Paul knew about the land and all this from the very start. Were we just given the wrong impression that this was a possibility? . . Senior ~ommission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 3 Gayle Davidge: No. Bungalol"'s are possible when there's a community that is not, I.don't know how to phrase this. When the community attitude is such that transportation or wanting to walk to services isn't an issue and it turned out in the interviews that that was an issue. That was something that everyone felt pretty strorigly about. Howard: Well we have two groups. We also have young seniors such as I consider myself, who are interested in the senior housing but ~e want garages and to have cars. I think you have to cater not only to the ve~y elderly but aIsoto the younger seniors. And they're not being considered by this report. Gayle Davidge: Well this was a very difficult recommendation because you do have two dicitinct senior populations herein Chanhassen. You have the elderly, old, old population and a large group of 55 to 64, which are very active. Very young seniors. And our hope is thatj there really is a market for only one project .at this time, based on the numbers. Our hope is that the project would be developed as a flexible p~oject. That people move into the project as they age in place, that other services and other amenities could be added to this structure. Howard: Is there a possibility of combining the two? Having a few bungalows in a center building? Gayle Davidge: Bungalows as free standing bungalows? Howard: Or~..maybe a couple quads. Gayle Davidge: You know we can .discuss that with Arvid Ellness, certainly and that's very approp~iate to put. Howard: That way you'd be catering to the younger seniors and the older ones. Gayle Davidge: That's very appropriate to bring that up with the architect. Bragg: I'd like to add my support to Sherol because I too felt that we should have bungalows. Yes, and we'd move in. But you may a point that you didn't want, the people did not want to move again during their aging process and I wanted to say that when you consider the aging process, you're talking at the maximum 30 and 35 years and that people do move during that period. You don't just stay in one spot for 35 years. Given the blessing of that many years of being aged. But I did not know exactly where thi~ was, building was going to be placed and I was given to understand that they were going to have it down near the cemetary that's in town and I was very adamant against that. And then the last meeting, we were told that's it down on the west side in a farm that exists, and I thought that was a far better choice but if it were a fuatter of giving up bungalows in order to get a more, better location. .' Howard: Behind the business.park~ . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 4 Bragg: Yes. And I thought that was a better would give up on the idea of the bungalows in location. If we had the choice of only two. a lot of benefit in being able to walk to the choice. In that easel order to get the better And I did think there was amenities. Kubitz: May I get my nickels worth in. ..couple years older than you~You will find out that there's a vast difference in what you can do now and what you can do 5-10 years from now. Heinlein: Unless you go running ~round like I do. Montgomery: Selda" you're a wonder. Kubitz: Well I do a lot more but my husband is only 2 years older than ~ am and he can do very little. And you have to consider that. Gayle Davidge: I would think it would beapP'ropriate to bring up with Arvid. Now I've talked with him just in a very preliminary way of letting him know that Phase 2 was ready to begin with the site selection~ which you know he'll be doing. To bring up with him, would there be some way to use, maybe to have say four of the larger units set out with their own garages possibly, you know within the constraints of the site and all, and that's something that he really needs to think about and addres~. I would encourage you to discuss it with him. St. John: Having your own garage and that way would lead to some, if there's a man in the couple, ~hat he would have like a workshop or something and wouldn't have to just sit in the apartment and no place to go afterwards or for anything. Gayle Davidge: Yeah, hopefully the project will also have a big workshop. Howard: I think people, these places that were more individual I think would always have people ready for them as the people in them moved on to the main building where they didn't need these things. Gayle Davidge: That's a really good idea Sherol~ Once you've made the decision to move. Howard: Moving's not that big a deal. You hire somebody and they do it for you. G~yle Davidge: Too, if you have a few units set developed that will serve as very independent units, and one or another of the partners decides that we really can't stay in this unit any longer, for wha.tever the reason, it's moving within the facility. ,It's certainly not as difficult a decision as moving from your home into the building. Bragg: I think most of the, of cour~e we don't have too many senior housing projects in this area, but I think that there will be waiting lists for every type of housing that you're providing there. . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 5 Howard: Has your group studied any that became bungalow projects or has Arvid? AI-Jaff: In Champlin. Gayle Davidge: Yeah, we did the bungalows in the Champlin pioJect. Howard: Oh, maybe we could visit those. Gayle Davidge: The project that I recommended you take a look at is Copperfield Hill up in Robbinsdale, and I believe you're going up there. Bragg: And we're going there today. Gayle Davidge: Yeah. Now Copperfield Hill is an apartment building and I didn't recommend you look at it because it's an apartment buliding. But because it has really well laid out common areas. It has very functional community spaces and I really like the way they recessed the doorway so everyone has like an individual entrance. It's not just like an apartment building. And there are no projects that I found anywhere in this market that did what I hope will occur here at Chanhassen. There are bits and pieces from various projects that I think would work well and I think that Copperfield Hill has some design features and the community room and the utilization of space for common areas that I really liked. That I think function really well, which is why I recommended that you look at it. I don't know of any single level projects like this in the area. They're usually just two pricey for ,developers. Montgomery: units, does couples who quite often One thing occurred to,me. If there are just two 2 bedroom that mean then that there wouldn't be anymore than two would be able to live there either? I mean unless, I mean they ~ould need the space of 2 bedrooms. Gayle Davidge: The two bedroom units that exist in the market now are the ones that don't have waiting lists. And there are two 2 bedroom units that I found that haven't rented for the last 2 or 3 monhts. We can increase the number of 2 bedroom units. My idea, or the idea that we had was with the 1 bedroom den. That larger 1 bedroom den unit would function like a 2 bedroom. Howard: That sounds good but you didn't have many of those. Only 16. 54 1 bedroom. Gayle Davidge: Yeah. It's about 25% of the project and we certainly can increase that to about a third of the project and it's something that we should talk about too. If YOU feel strongly that there is a need for more larger 1 bedroom den or the 2 bedroom units, we can change the mi~ to include up to one-third as those size units. Montgomery: I noticed that there was quite a variation from say 5% 2 bedroom to about a third 2 bedroom and I wondered what made that difference in determination of these places. . . .' Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 6 Gayle Davidge: You're talking about the comparable projects on the market? Montgomery: Well I'm not sure really but it just, now I can't find the page number h~re. Gayle Davidge: Well it would be one third, 1 bedroom and den and ~ bedroom combined. So combining 'those two categories. Generally from one third to three-fourths of these projects are 1 bedroom. Montgomery: I didn't remember whether that was a price factor or whether there was consideration that the rent would be too high if they were 2 bedroom or whether it's just a need. Gayle Davidge: The rent is one of the major issues in the 2 bedroom. The 1 bedroom den seemed to rent out very well. Howard: I noticed the 1 bedroom with the den can be as large as the 2 bedroom so I wouldn't care what you called it. Gayle Davidge: Right. And when I talked to Arvid Ellness about that, he said well~ there are projects that go from 75% 1 bedroom, 25% larger ' which is what we're recommending for 2/3 1 bedroom and 1/3 larger as... We can change that to have more 1 bedroom dens. Montgomery: Was some of that determination from the interviews and the information that you got in the area? Gayle Davidge: Most of that came from what was working with other projects and in interviewing the managers and the building owners of senior housing both in this market and outside of the market, there seemed to be a real desire for the larger 1 bedroom unit and the 1 bedroom den units but the 2 bedroom units seem to just not stay rented well. I think that's a function of price. Montgomery: Maybe because, was part of it because the bediooms then had to be smaller in order to have two? Gayle Davidge: I don't really know... Montgomery: Were you saying that the cost is based on square footage if it's subsidized and that's figured that way? Gayle Davidge: Right. It's calculated by the number of square feet you're actually renting. And when you get into the 2 bedroom units, there is a lot more square fbotage so you're paying proportionately higher. But as Sherol pointed out, we really felt strongly about the larger 1 bedroom den. We recommended that they be the same size as the small 2 bedroom because that seems to work really well. Montgomery: Maybe we can take a look at that today. Are there units like th~t we would be able to take a look at? . . .' Senier Cemmissien Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 7 Gayle Davidge: Cepperfield dees have a unit with a den, yes. I'm sure they'll shew yeu units. If when yeu called. did yeuask te see the inside .of any units? ...they nermally, when yeu teur a preject, they will nermally shew yeu the varieus layeuts. New Cepperfield still has a really nice variety .of layeut~ in their units. Even within the 1 bedreems, they're net all the same. They'll be laid .out differently. There will be a walk-in clesets in seme cases is at the end .of yeurhall, yeu knew fer sterage, as well as the hanging clesest in the bedreem. Seme .of the units have a walk-in right inside the bedreems, se they have areally nice range .of layeut fleerplans. And I think the afchitect that designed that building was Darrel Farr Censtructien. Darrel Farr. St. Jehn: This is ata different lecatien at the Presbyterian Hemes but friends ever there, there's twe dIfferent ceuples, and they have the bedreem and a den but use it as yeu knew, they can us~ it as 2bedr.ooms. It's very nice. Gayle Davidge: It's really nice. ..hideabed in there when y.oU have c.ompany. Heward: I think that's the ideal thing because yeu d.on't need 2 bedreems all the time but .occasienally if c.ompany, s.ome.one fr.om .out .of tewn visits. I have an.other thing under the unit features. I have a friend wh.o werks at Friendship Village and she said their werst mistake is putting bathtubs in all the units and they have f.ound that a stall sh.ower with a seat in it is the ideal thing t.o have and then .on each fleer have a sitibath,thing where pe.ople can take a bath. But she said there afe se many pe.ople that can't get in and .out .of a tub. Arthritic pe.ople and the grab bar makes n.o difference and I've bec.omearthTitic and I knew getting up is very difficult. Se she said these with bathtubs. Heinlein: There was s.ome pr.ogram .on I happen t.o catch the .other day where they were talking, this man was showing a building that he had taken .over. It was a narrow building but he had .one .of these tubs. It was just like a square alm.ost and there was a seat iD it. Heward: Well this is a sh.ower witK a seat in it. Yeah, and she said that's the way t.o g.oin these buildings., In a seni.or building rather than a standard tub. M.ontg.omery: I remember seeing that,)I think it was Auburn Maner. Remember where we? Heward: Well I just neticed they said tub/shewer cembinati.on en this unit. Gayle Davidge: Yeah, when I talked te Arvid abeut that tee, he mentiened that there is a nice .opti.onfer these peeple c.oming int.o the building initially te decide if they want just the walk-in shewer .or if they want the tub shewer which is, as Selda was saying, the square tub with a seat. in it and the sh.ower ever it which seems te werk very well tee. I can menti.on that in the rep.ort tee. . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 -Page 8 St. John: I just hope that the seat in that shower isn't soMeway designed that it's not slippery. Gayle Davidge: Yeah, they'~e not supposed to be. St. John: Because somebody had a little fall in one, sliding off of the seat you know when it was wet. Kubitz: I took a nice fall in my sister's tub when I took a shower because they don't have...the bottom non-skid and boy did I take a tumble. Howard: I have one other question. On page 28, under recreational and community spaces recommended for this type of building. It said, now I can get details on something from you, .if I want them right? It said, interest was expressed by Chanhassen pasto"rs and seniors in having a meting room open to community senior groups. Now that we already have in our senior center and I doubt that all the pastors in Chanhassenwere aware of this. And also any seniors you talked to that aren't aware of it so I'd like to have a list and I will personally call the.sepeople and acquaint them with the fact that we have a meeting room open to community seniors. Gayle Davidge: Oh, they are all aware of that. They were. Howard: Why would they need two? Gayle Davidge: They were mentionind that it would really be nice, one of the pastors put this really well, and he's the pastor at St. Hubert's who said you know, it's really nice when they go out to give communion or speak with one of my parishoners that if we need to have like a little meeting or some Bible study, it could be done there. And I've seen this done in other projects where the community 'room becomes an extension of the family within the facility in also reaching out to the community. Not as in holding community events there, as you would do at the senior center. But in allowing the pastor to come in and administer to his parish and be able to have the facility open to that sort of idea. Howard: Would this be the same space that was used as a party room? Gayle Davidge: ...we looked at on here was having a small office could be used by visiting...pastor and if they did need to have a group, in the case of a Bible study, that they could possibly use that but no, it wasn't for community functions. Like people couldn't come in and Just schedule a community function there. But as a part of what was happening within the facility itself. And I cati change this language to better reflect the interest... Howard: Well this implies they need a meeting, .which they do not. Gayle Davidge: Yeah, I'll change the la~guage. I understand why youJre confused by that and I can really change that language. It's that everyone does knOw that the senior center exists and the senior center is . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 9 open to be scheduled for a variety of lectures and workshops and that type of thing. Howard: Is there room that people can rent or use for large groups? A private individual, which they normally call party rooms. Gayle Davidge: Yeah the community room would serve that function. And also the dining room when the dining room's not being used. Can also be set up to function in that way 'too. I know so'metimes people want to have like a large family gathering. If they have a large family and they want to use the kitchen within the facility. St. John~ That would be two separate rooms like the party room and the dining room? Two different areas? Gayle Davidge~ And again that's something that should be addressed in architectural designs of the structure~ Montgomery: Does anybody else have some questions? Gayle~you were saying something about when you start the next project or the need for all kinds of input into that. Maybe you could explain that to the Commission. Gayle Davidge: Well Phase 2 is the phase that looks ,at sites and selects the site. That's something that I think all of you should be consulted about and look at the various sites and have input into that. Alsoin Phase 2, the architectural design and these are-some of the issues that we've touched ,on today and it's critical that the facility be designed in a manner that's in keeping with how you want to liv~. Because once it's built, it's there so. Howard: Nothing has been designed? Gayle Davidge: Nothing's been designed. Montgomery: Gayle was suggesting that she would like to hear from you personally if you have questions or ~omething you want to tell her and I thought maybe she could give you her phone number again, just sd you'd have it handy. Do you want to write that down? Gayle Davidge: It's 339-7000 and yeah, I just want to reiterate that I'm always happy to come down and meet with yo~ and talk to you and I'm very willing to talk to each and everyone of you on the phone. The input that you've already given for the first phase was invaluable and it will be even more critical. Howard: Tell me in what way did you use our input in the first phase. Gayle Davidge: In determining what the attitudes were towards senior housing, which really is very good in this community. And the desire, just seeing how much desire and how much...the illustration that you wanted to be able to walk to the Post Office and to walk to the grocery store. Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 10 . Montgomery: Paul, did you have any comments for us? Krauss: Just one thing. I'm sorry I wasn't here earlier... One thing I've learn~d over the years, as with these types of feasibility studies, is the answer isn't always what you might have expected and the answer may not be exactly what you wanted because what we're paying them to tell us is what the market wants, which may not be the same thing. Well it's true. I've learned this much in particular the senior projects. It's one thing to ask somebody to, ~r. and Mrs. Agerage Senior what's your perfect type of housing situation. Well I'd like a small private home wiih a nice little garden and somebody to cook dinner. ..make jure that's somebody watching out for me. There'd be a long list of things. I'd like to be able to walk outdoors... And then when you're confronted with well, are you willing to pay $3,000.00 or $4,000.00 a month or I mean, but more importantly, when you're actually faced with moving 00t of a home, what kind of a unit are you. It's one thing to think about hypothetically what you want but I've learned that people don't move unless there's a pretty darn good reason. I mean giving up a home is not something a lot of us want to think about. And it's something that you don't normally do unless you thought about it a long time and it fits your lifestyle better or ,it's something unique to them. So what it gets down to is I've learned that ju~t sitting around thinking about hypothetically what you want and maybe what you really would move into when it's time for you to think about moving, might be two different things and it's a very tough thing to come to terms with. . Howard: Paul, there's quite a large proportion of seniors who are single women who have already faced this move. Once you've done it once, the second time isn't much. We've already left our homes. . Krauss: We're also winding up Sherol, we have, or in your neighborhood we have a senior housing project. A lot of the fourplexes and the quads and stuff that were developed in the 70's and early 80's have almost converted to senior housing... Didn't plan it but that's what it turned into. And that's great. I mean it provides what people were looking for. A little less space. A little, you don't have to worry about mowing the lawn. Those kinds of things. And is the market providing it, do we need to compete with it... And that's not covered in here because it's not particular a senior project. It's not, but if we were going to, and I'm not trying to argue pro cottages or against cottages or anything else but one of the things after we got this and Sharmin and I were talking, one of the, things you realize is that the kind of image that we developed about the cottage type situations, really...walks and talks a whole lot like the quad developments that ~e already have in town. So it may be a reason that when you're actually looking at what people are going to need, that that's not what's coming up. There's no magic to this stuff. We hope there's science to it. You know it is somethin!;! of an art. We think folks we hired are helping us with that and then /ou need to throw in a little bit of your gut level, this feels right or it doesn't feel right. And if it doesn't feel right, let's ask why and let's get an answer. Howard: My point was not the quads or that~ My point was making such a huge issue out of moving. And that's not as big an issue for some of us Senier Cemmissien Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 11 . as itweuld appear in this study er what yeu're saying. Krauss: No., and yeu knew yeu've had mere experience with it than I de but I knew, I mean I saw a let.ef the prejects that were develeped in the 80's...it was different stuff but all ever the Twin Cities yeu have a tremendeus, I mean develepers see semething. ..and they all build it yeu knew and there were a tremendeus number that came en the market fer senier...and they all had these glewing feasibility studies that said, wew. There's tens ef theusands ef senier heusehelds in the Twi n Ci ties. Build it and they will ceme. Well what they've feund eut is, build it and they'll think abeut fer 3 er 4 years and maybe they'!! get areUnd to. deing it. . Peeple den't meve lightly. I mean I see that in my ewn life. I mean I used to. meve a let befere I get married and had kids. It's net semething... Yeu de it but yeu have to. have a pretty geed reasen to. de it. And yeu want temeve into. semething that effersyeu mere er better suits yeu than what yeu have new. And unless we can previde that, we're geing to. be in treuble and it's why we get a !ittle cautieus and yeu den't build en the presumptien that everybedy is geing to. think that this is the greatest thing since mashed petatees and they're all geing'te ceme temerre~. I think that's why, ene ef the...here was to. talk abeut yeu knewalmest'phasing the number ef units that yeuhave. Yeu want to. be cautieus. Yo.u den't want to. sit around with a bunch ef empty prejects. We saw that dewn in Hankate. What did it take them to. lease that thing eut? 3 er 4 years. And new it's werking great yeu knew. . St . Jehn: When yeU mentien the quads new,! and they were talking abeut the bungalews and Sherel living in ene ef these quads. De yeu feel that that is so. much better to. have a cettage type? Weuld you have more advantages? Howard: No., I have three flights which is bad. st~ Jehn: Yeah, that I agree. Yeah. Heward: And also. ybu do have a let ef seniers but the oppesite side, yeu have fully as many newlyweds and tiny tets. So. it's half and half and there's a great turnever with the yeung peeple. They have 2 children and it isn't large eneugh so. they meve eut. But yeu see very few high scheol children. Little children and seniors. The two. eppesite ends. Abeut 50/50 I think. Krauss: Well yeu ktiew, clearly it wasn't built, purpesedly built as senior heusing. It just kind ef turned into. it. And yeu find that the folks, the seniers who. meve in there, I mean yeu have to. be fairly affluent. Heward: It turned into. it because it was the best the ce~munity had to. effer fer these ef us who. became widewed er semething. Where de We ge? Krauss: It fit the bill. .. Heward: Within the area. Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 -Page 12 . Krauss: But I know like Tom Workman moved out. 1 guess he supposedly sold it to an older couple... You're talking about people that are pretty mobile. Who have enough dollars to have a lot of freedom to make decisions. They're not cheap homes. I mean comparability they're not terribly, not as expensive as a single family home but they're fairly expensive. Who are still in a position to take care of a lot of details themselves... But again, the supply of people to move into your project isn't...pretty small and you've really got to hit that right on. You're really marketing these things. Hitting the market. Being as astute as any/retailer in what they're selling is a major part of a successfui project. You Just can't build something that feels right or looks right or, it has to be right or it's not going to work. Gayle Davidge: A couple things we talked about too before you came in was, in the recommendation...recommends up to 3 stories which isn't to be interpretted that it has to be 3 stories or even has to be 2 stories. If we have...site it, well one level would be wonderful with 2 level atriums and that's one thing that... And the other thing we talked about was if we can do one level, could we have some of the units become, have a garage right next to them. Still be attached because some of theset...rill be.. .Little more independent... 'That 's,something that needs to be addressed in the architectural design. It isn't something that 1 would feel comfortable recommending but Arvid. .. And the other thing that we discussed is that phase I will reallydetermine...Those are important issues that require much more input than determining... . Krauss: ...there's a lot of number crunching. Howard: What's considered s~ccessful? As the building is completed, what percentage occupancy is expected immediately to be successful? Gayle Oavidge: Most of the facilities that begin really actively, pre-marketing before construction begins, are usually 80% to 85% occupied before they even open. And I would say that that could vary...with the proper design and proper site and proper... Krauss: But when you set up your financing package for a project, you want to be conservative and you're probably going toassume...occupancy for a period of time, just to be on the safe side so that 6 month~ down the pike if you've only got 80%, occupancy, 70% occupancy, you don't run out of cash because you didn't get your minimum. But that~s just all number s . . . Montgomery: It'd be nice if we had a crystal ball and k~ew all the answers ahead of time. Well there's a lotto think about. A lot of things to juggle. Howard: Is there anything on sites? We have defined the businesspa~k and the farm across the street. And a spot on Lake Lucy Road. Aie those the three? . Krauss: Lake Lucy Road? "Howard: Did you have a property off Lake Lucy Road you talked about? . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 13 Krauss: No, we had this one over here. The farm. We still have, well I guess 78th Street. Or right down across from St. Hubert~s. Sragg: Sy the cemetary. Heinlein: ...it may not go up that road, but the beautiful homes that' has been built around Eden Prairie cemetary. They are just beautiful and they're all the way around. I thought at first and I thought~ well what difference does that make. St. John: Nice quiet neighborhood. Kubitz: Well I think when you're younger you don't mind that. ! think when you get older you... Montgomery: Does anybody else have any more questions for Gayle? Krauss~ Well actually somebody, I don't know if it's big enough actually. Who suggested that anyway? You know where Kenny's Market is? That little building...well Kenny's is the biggest tenant and they've always been marginal. Especially now that we have a legitimate m.rketin town and people shop there. And the rest of the uses iri there are kind of... St. John: Isn't that where the cleaners are? Krauss: Well the cleaners is a little behind, yeah. And there's one other developer in town... Sragg: But then you'd be forced to have an apartment with a ~ouple of layers. Krauss: It's not that big of space. Heinlein: The new one in town is the big~est one around. The one that's across from me there. That's 3 stories. Krauss: That's 3 stories with an underground garage. Montgomery: Yeah, there'd be less options if it were in that. Krauss: Yeah, that parking lot there.. .we own the parking lot and St. Hubert's uses it on Sunday and Pauly's uses it when they have a crowd. It's something to consider. Montgomery: Well I remember they had to do a pollution clean-up or something there for the gas station. Krauss: Yeah, that's all been done. Mon~gomery: That's all) nothing lurking under there? Krauss: Yeah, we cleaned all that up before we put in the street. There's a site we haven't been able to figure out what to do with it, and . . . Senior CommissiQn Meeting December ii, 1992 - Page 14 I don't know. We'll either put, you know where the Taco place was? We tore that doltm. St. John: Inthe...TH 5 and 78th Street? Krauss: By spring Apple Valley Red-E-Mix is going to be torn down. So you have a big island of land there. We haven't been able to figure out what to do with that. It's fairly long and skinny. One end of it is... high~"ay . Bragg: A little dangerous for seniors walking. Krauss: Well, we looked at doing pedestrian connections like a bridge over the rail~ay tracks an~ another bridge to the south~ I don't know. Maybe if you did it so that you're, I mean there are ways to design buildings when you want to turn your back on something like a highway so that you only have hallways or something on that side so all the units face downtown or look back over to St. Hubert's. Something like that. It's not my favorite choice but it's something I'd kind of like... Heinlein: How much acreag~ is in there? Krauss: Quite a lot. I don't See we own the Hanus building. to be a lot of junk back there. back there. That whole area is cleaning it all up. know off band but it's long and skinny. The one with the auto place. There u~ed Boats arid trucks and stuff were stored going to ,come down. I mean we're St. John: Doesn't that go up towards thecemetary there? Well isn't that? Krauss: Well it doesn't, I mean the railroad tracks separate it from the cemetary. St. John: I said to Betty, that sounds a little like the,South Shore senior apartments which is very bad for walking. The crossroad there. There's 5 streets or something that comes together and then there is no parking place and they see the highway going up from one side and it's not very attractive around there. Heinlei n : Well ~"here's that other highway goi ng to come through there Paul? The one where they tore all the buildings down. Krauss: Where the stop light is right now, where they're rebuilding in front of McDonald's, it~s going to run straight north. So it's not going to go into the Taco building. It runs straight north. That's why we had to take out that apartment building. Ho~ard: Yeah. Otherwise you cbme off of Dakota and go right straight across. Krauss: You go straight across, yeah. So th~re's actually going to be more land over there than there is now when we're all done with it. But access is tough. The only access into that place is off of Great Plains. Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 15 . Kubitz: Will 78th Street still continue to go right into TH 5? Krauss: No, it's kind of going to, both of them, 78th Street and the front roa.d ki nd of come up 1 i ke this so they. . . Kubitz: You can go down 78th Street and get onto TH 5? Krauss: Well, you'll go down 78th street, go up and then get on TH 101 and then get on TH 5. Montgomery~ We'll h~ve to see a map. Howard: If you could have more on that location, because thbre's more land than the other location, I think it's worth considering. Krauss: We'll get out some maps and Bee how much land is going to be left. We're talking about building a real nice landscaped feature.. .with an entrance into downtown, so it's something that would be merged with that. Montgomery: It would be a longer walk however to anything. So that would be quite a long walk. Krauss: If we do these pedestrian bridges we're talkin~ about~ Montgomery: It's still a long way to the senior center. Or the market you know. Krauss: When we get the architect out here and we'll draw up a list of sites and all of those... Montgomery: That would help. See where the boundaries are and how far it would be from. Gayle Davidge: I think too, Arvid would be very happy to take you to look at some of the products he's already developed so he can get ,feedback about what you like and what you don't like. Howard: That would be helpful. Montgomery: Well I suppose we should get'onto our next item here. Is there anybody else who has a final question for Gayle before we close? Bragg: I'd just like her to give us a list of places that we should ~o and look at. Gayle Davidge: Okay. I've been talking to Sharmin about that too and I will. I'll put on that list why I think it would be appropriate. Bragg: What the features are that we're supposed to look at. Gayle Davidge: Like Copperfield, I really think some of their features in the recessed doorways is very nice. Very well utilized. . . \, Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 16 Montgomery: Well thank you very much Gayle. We appreciate your coming out. Gayle Davidge: Thank you. I'm exdited to start on Phase 2. Montgomery: Yeah. That will be a real challenge. UPDATE ON SENIOR CITIZEN COMMISSION VACANCIES. Montgomery: Here we have some applications I see. AI-Jaff: We received four applications. However, one of them was a resident of Excelsior so we eliminated that application. We have three applications here. Henry Dimler. Bragg: .Let's take him. He's the only man that. AI-Jaff: Grace Johnson and boy~ this writing is so small I can't even readi t . - Howard: Way to go Selda. Heinlein: I decided I am stepping out. AI-Jaff: Really? Heinlein: Yeah. Montgomery: What did you say? Heinlein: I have definitely decided I am stepping out. 8ragg: She wants to rescind this. Montgomery: You don't want this application? Is that legal? Heinlein: I told you at the time that' I would think about it and give a decision today. I've thought about it very, very hard. AI-Jaff: And you don't want to be on the Commission? Heinlein: I just fe~l like I want to start doing things, if I want to go away, if I want to do this, if I want to do that, I want to be free to do it. I've got other reasons too. I mean nothing to do with the grou~ here but I mean it's just, I'm finally going to get to see my one son after 2 years I haven't seen him. I'm goi.ng to get up for 40r 5 days and that's all. I miss my kids. Montgomery: Well, we're going to miss you Selda, that's for sure. Well you come py and put in your two cents worth anytime you want here. . st. John: We can still come and visit and listen in on the Commission? Senior Commission M$eting December 11, 1992 - Page 17 . ~10ntgomery: Oh you bet . Give us all kinds of direction while you're at it. . . .Well Selda', we just can't say enough to thank you. Kubitz: Did we only have...I thought we had more applications tha~ that? AI"'-Jaff: Well we had 4 applications but one of them was from Excelsior. The applicant is from Excelsior and YOLlr By-laws say you can"only have a Chanhassen resident. ~ontgomery: Well Betty, how about you now? Bragg: I'm going to go off and have a man that's applied and that's my seat he's going to take. Montgomer~: But we have 3 vacancies. st. John: I'm going off too. Montgomery: See we have 3 vacanci.s and 2 applicants. Heinlein: Grace Johnson, you know her don't you? That's the one that has been, well she's been out for quite a while but her only problem is that she will need transportation to get back and forth. AI-Jaff: We can arrange that. . Heinlein: She's, what is she. Grace is. Bragg: 73. Heinlein: And she does ,walk with a cane right now. She's had a couple knee surgeries and she's still walking, and she is really intere~ted in it. Montgomery: Maybe, shall we then wait a little bit and see if we have some more applications? Bragg: Well I think I would accept these two. This Mr. Dimler is born in the Village and he could carryon the traditions and the history. Montgomery: Would anyone know. . Heinlein: Yeah, that's who we were talking about, Grace Johnson. She's been a member of the Senior Group oh about...the other day Sharmin was there and you've got to sign it. And Dawn was there, you've got to sign it. I said well, I'll think about it. My son told me to stay on. But truthfully there's so many things that I like to do that I'm not able to do it. It seems like all my time now. I spend 2 and 3 days up here at the center. And I mean I just, I like to read. I like to do crossward puzzles. I like to do handwork and don't tell me about the craft.~.it's not a craft deal. But I jUst made up my mind and I have another person~l reason so. Howard: Selda, do you know this Mr. Dimler? " Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 18 . Heinlein: Well I met him. I talked to him. Bragg: Chuck's father. It says he was ex-President of the Chamber of Commerce. . . Heinlein: Well that's Ursula's father-in-law. Bragg: Yeah, exactly. Howard: I tried to talk Mark Littfin's father into it but. Montgomery: We're still short one person. Krauss: Well you know what we can do is fill two of them now. We had this.. .Planning Commission. Ask one of you to stay ~n until we can get another person to apply... Howard: Do you know this has never been in the paper? Heinlein: It has been. Howard: Not in .the way that you wanted it. Montgomery: It was during the election or something when nobody was. Krauss~ We could mail out notices to the Senior Club. Al-Jaff: If we can wait until about Thursday, I will go and ask one of my neighbors... Heinlein: Oh heavens. Forget it. When I saw her say she wanted, I thought oh, no. You know who I'm talking about. ) St. John: I know. Heinlein: Well you know we would laugh. She came in one day and we were playing Bingo and we said, oh are you going to play Bingo? Oh no, I just came in for that free cup of coffee. But no, I mean no. Montgomery: Well Paul, how should we handle this if we still need another one? Should we wait to make a vote or should we go ahead? Krauss: Well, I mean I have the same problem with the Planning Commission. What you might want to do, you do it either two ways. You can fill some of them now and,ask one to stay on until we get the other position filled, which will probably be in January. There's so many people coming through the Senior Center now, we have access to so many more names that I'm sure with a little bit of publicity we can~et. Bragg: Get one more. Krauss: Otherwise you can just postpone the whole thing until January which gives you time to get some more names.' Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 19 . Howard: We don't decide anyway db we? Montgomery: Yeah, we don't decide. We just make the recommendation~ . . Krauss: You make a recommendation to the Council and the Council confirms it. Montgomery: Well, maybe we should just wait then. Do you think that would be a better way to do it? So we won't make any motion yet then. Heinlein: Maybe I would fill in if I had to. Krauss:. If you all would agree to go through January on the Commission and we'll try to get the names so that at your meeting in January will have, I don't know if that's okay... Bragg: We can do it that way. And then if Selda, she's willing to stay on. Montgom€~ry: You 'drather get the two on now? Bragg: Yes. And let them start in January. Heinlein: But you won't be there. Bragg: That's right we won't so we're just going to sit quietly. Heinlein: You just want to leave is what it amounts to. Bragg: Yeah, I'm going on a trip in January. St. John: So am I. , Heinlein: I might know more in a couple weeks but right now I'm on a teeter totter. Montgomery: You don't know if you'll be herein January either then? Heinlein: Well January I should be here. I will be here for the January meeting. St. John: I'll be here in January but I mean if you want to just take these two or would you rather wait with all three until you probably have more? Kubitz: I would rather wait until January. Howard: / You'll be leaving. We live with this Betty. I would too. Bragg: Yeah, but I look forward to your having two reallY good people here. They look interesting... (There was a tape change at this point.) Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 20 . St.John: That's okay and these two could still be chosen in January. Montgomery: Now who would rather do it now? And accept these two and have someone stay on. Bragg: I would prefer to do it that way so that r nowl can leave in January. Heinlein: You may leave Betty. Montgomery: Alright, then we'll just delay it until the ne~t, the January session then right? And if we have new people, they can be invited to the January meeting. And we'll hope we'll have another one. Howard: I would like to suggest, having the fourth January meeting. Well it's next on the agenda. Montgomery: In connection with these good people who have spent all ~hls time, both on the task force fora year and 2 years on the Commission, I just would like very much to express our thanks and maybe Paul, you'd like to say something in that connection. . Krauss: I feel that Sharmin and I have been priviledged to work with you all. This has been fun for us as well. I mean I think you all need to pat yourselves on the back. You went from there being no recognition of anything for seniors to putting yourselves on the map. I m~an there is, you're a vital part of this community. The contributions of seniors are now recognized on a regular basis. The City has anOnderstanding that,. in the same way we fund soccer teams and basketball teams, and sweep streets, that one of Our fundamental charges is providing for our seniors as a part of our community. I mean it's part of the continum that makes Chanhassen a community. And I think it sets us apart from so many suburbs where you Just kind of get lost like every other suburb. We're losing 3 of our members. You're the founding group here. There are g06d people out there and I'm sure we're going to move forward but you're the founding group. You're the people Sharminknowand. Bragg: The history. Krauss: We're saddened to seethe three of you move on but we understand that you've made a real strong contribution here. And we~re just glad we had the opportunity to work with you. Kubitz: May I say something? here that have worked with us. to.. . I want to thank the two people sitting I mean they have made it possible for us Bragg: Absolutely. And I don't think any of that would have been done. . Kubitz: They have done~. fabulous Job with providing us with a center... Bragg: RealI, I'd like to second that. I really feel that this is a unique community and it has, the history of it has been, it was loosely organized and was just a little village. Teeny village and we~ve seen it . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 21 move into the city status and I know I find myself coming over here more to shop than I did before because I feel a kinship with that and I'm just terribly excited that you're going to be involved with the senior housing and there are a lot of things that I think, that I didn't even envision when I was on the task force. So I'm sorry to be leaving but I do feel that other people need to have their voices heard and for that reason that I am moving on to other things. And I was going to say that I am pursuing the Carver County Advisory Committee and I thinkthat~sprobably enough, although as all of us are saying, we would like to come back and hear what's going on here because that energizes ourselves for other service. Krauss: There's a real vital role. We see .this on the Planning Commission~ We love it when Planning Commissioners graduate to~..and we've already broken them in. There's a whole, I mean there's ju~t a myriad number of organizations that as senior pr6grams, service programs, and to have people who we know who we're comfortable with wha~ Chanhassen is doing. Who know what Chanhassen is doing, out there at County level or at a church level or wherever, we're just being participants of the Senior Center, I mean that's great. I mean you need those networks and that's real vital for us. St. John: I just want to say that I am, feel very priviledged to have worked on the task force and on the Commission and with Sharmin and Paul a~d I .have learned $0 much. Sometimes I haven't contributed as much as what I would have liked to but I "m really priviledged to have been on this. Howard: I would like to make a suggestion. A lot of buildings have this sort of thing. L think we should have a framed, either a plaque that's engraved or something framed for the Senior Center telling when it was dedicated and who was on the Commission at the time. Montgomery: Do you h~ve somethin~ that I think is hidden over there? Br.gg: Now what would you have done if I had~aidyeah, I'm going to stay on? Montgomery: Well you get it anyway for your service. Here's for you 8e~ty and you know speaking qf networking, you have done such a terrific job of ~hat and you've been so helpful. I just can't say enough to thank you for it. And this is for Selda. And Selda, how would we ever have managed without you just getting in there and all of your publicity accomplishments and keeping the history and all the things you.ve done. We're going to miss you. And this is for Emma. And we.Just thank you Emma with all the knowledge that you've had from all your experience at the South Shore Center and all of your helpful suggestions. Really, you've just been great.. St. John: Well thank you very much~ . Montgomery: Always been ready to help out and we just thank you. . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 22 Heinlein: This is like the last Sunday I attended church at my old church before I moved up here. The services were over and the pastor said, ever~body remain seated. Selda has been a faithful worker in our congregation for how many years. 10 or 12 years. As secretary and etc. and he said, now she's going to go far away from us. He had me b.wling. ! couldn't even go up to go the front and accept. Bragg: Well, you've touched us all and thank you. And you have energized us so we 're going to goon,. St. John: Are all of you coming to the brunch tomorrow morning? Krauss: No, !'vegot my one son has basketball and the other one has Scouts. Bragg: He has family responsibilities too, right. St. John: And he has come. He's been there. Montgomery: Well we're going to h~ve to get on with our hurry up agenda here. JANUARY MEETING TIME. Montgomery: everybody. January. We wondered if having it on the 22nd would be alright with Is there any problem with that? There are 5 Fridays in Howard: I would really appreciate it. Then I won't miss the meeting and I'm going in February but I can make the third one in February. lean work around itBnd not miss a meeting if we can do that. Montgom~TY: Is that alright with you? Krauss: Yep. Montgomery: Okay Sharmln? Okay. Make a note then. Krauss: If we can get the architect out, we may ask some evening kind of assemble informally sometime. If we did that, we'd probably get a bus and probably have lUnch. We'll try to give you enough notice. ' Montgomery: Okay. Did you say something about another meeting Sherol or was that the one you were talking about? The 22nd. Howard: No, that was the one. I really do appreciate it. UPDATE ON SENIOR ANSWER LINE (SAL). Bragg: Sharmin and I both attended the Senior Answer Line meeting and my feeling was that they left it a little bit, they didn't accomplish all that they were going to do~ We didn't hear a vote did we? . . Ie Senior Commission Meeting December 11,1992 ~ Pag~ 2~ AI-Jaff: They didn't vote. However, I spoke with Jerry more after the meeting, who's the director of...and he said that he had a good feelIng about it that it will be approved. " Bragg: I had the same thing. Now the people I talked to were the two out going commissioners. The one from Chanhassen. AI-Jaff: Al Klingelhutz. Bragg: Al Klingelhutz and then Mr. Conservative. I can't think of his name but those are the two out going persons and even the one that was so conservative in his asking for us to find out more costs, told me that,he would vote for it but I don't kMow i~ he'll even be in office in january. He said he would have vote for it because I tackled him a little bit. He was trying to look for some funding from SAL for it and I talked to Vicky Peterson. She said~ oh SALwon't pay for anything because they dori't . have any money she said. Howard: What did they do with all that money that they had? Bl'agg: I don't know but whoever's allocating all that. See there are several counties and there's only this one county that will benefitlt first. AI-Jaf~: Maybe this program does not qualify under their funding system. One thing that one of the commissioners kept on pointing out, why is CDanhassen doing that? Where's the catch? Bragg: That's the one rthink I'm talking about. That's Mr. Conservative and I can't think of his name. AI-Jaff: And after awhile I just said, if we don't get the County, I said Chanhassen wants this program an'd Senior Answer Line does not go into a city only. They have to service the entire county. Sowithout the County helping us out with this, we're not going to be able to get the service. Bragg: I would like to say one more thing and I know it's probably going to be written. Sut several people said to me that since we ~ere Eastern Carver County, that we were under suspicion every time we propose something. It's this old, well who are yOu anyway because it's grown so and they're used to handling all the power over the rest of the county and when w. start to, we're the young upstarts and they tend to be very suspicious of everything we do. And so after the meeting was over, the person that I had put in cha,ge of the subcommittee that brought out all the costs and were presenting the items to ask for budget, said tome, is the,e a l.t.Jay we could disguise that the phone is even being answered over he,e. She suggested that we have a different signal. Not that, you know that there be a buzzard or different sound that when the computer Was accessed from the western part of tnecounty, that there be a different sound so they don't know that it's going through the Chanhassenexchange. I couldn't believe that. This is really something. I had a suspicion that it was rural areas feeling that here's ~ city that's emerging that's bigge, than any of us and that they're kind of, like the tail wagging the . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 24 dog see. But I just wanted to point that out to you, and I know it's going to be on the...but I still risk that she brought up. AI-Jaff: When the phone is going to be answered, it's not going to say Senior Answer Line. It's going to say, you have reached the City of Chanhassen.' If you want, after hours. Bragg: Oh after hours. AI-J8ff: If you would like Administration, push 5. Public Safety, push 3. Senior Center, push 6. Senior Answer Line, push whateve'rnumber. ~hat's what it says right now. Bragg: Is there any way you could, would they have to have a different number or something assigned to it? AI-Jaff: I personally am starting to get offended with this attitude. Bragg: Well I was offended. AI-Jaff: Chanhassen children go to Chaska schools and no one has eVer complained about that so what's wrong with Chanhassen having the Senior Answer Line? Bragg: Except that we have Watertown, Young America, there's another little town close to Young America. Howard: N'ew Germany. Norwood. st. John: Mayer. Bragg: And there's another town. st. John: Waconia. Bragg: Waconia. That's 8 bigger town. And then there's another one, Cologne. St. John: That's south ofWaconia. / Bragg: Okay. But all of them have been established and have.been in charge. They've had the power. Now here all of a sudden, here I use the expression young upstart and :r think it's adviseable. That they're not used to hearing from us. Heinlein: That's why I'm surprised I got along so well around, here. Coming up from Chicago, I 'really felt as though when I join~d the Senior Group at first, I mean there was no acknowledgement of me at all. It took quite a while before I could say anything you know. Bragg: It's nothing that we can change but I heard it so often as I was leading that group and then when the subcomittee person, who is very, she's an authority on geriatrics and...in that area, was telling me that she thought that would be a very good idea. Is to be able to disguise Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 25 Bragg: Marvel Heath. I'm glad I passed it on to you then. Montgomery: When .will l-Je have the final word? Do you think in January? AI-Jaff: Well we're hoping that we would implement, at least We would get all the approvals over and done with in December. And then I will have to contact Julie and Julie will pick up the rest of the work~ At least getting it approved through her commission and then we will go through implementing and installing the service and hopefully come February we will be able to have the service available. Montgomery: We can hope. But maybe you could work out some of those details. Maybe talk to Marvel Heath. I don't know. AI-J8ff: I would rather talk ~o Gary Borch. Bragg: Yeah, I would say that's what you ~hould do too. Ai-Jaff: I mean Gary asked me if they can contract hours with us and I said. . .so it is a County service. . Montgomery: Well then he would be the one then. Ai-Jaff:, Yeah. Bragg: I think he must be sensitive to this too. AI-Jaff: remember. Borch? He was extremely helpful. I mean the County was, Betty I don't You weren't at the meeting were you when we met with Gary Bragg: No. AI-Jaff: Okay. They proposed to pay $12.75 per hour for the Director and we were thinking that maybe Dawn could pick up those 10 hours. Be part of her overall job. And that's why we used her salary. Her hourly salary~ They were willing to pay benefits. They will pay for the phone line. Anything that 1-800 number will cost quite a bit and the County's picking that up. I mean those were all things that came from the County. And I really liked working with Gary. Howard: His attitude was apparent from the first meeting. . Bragg: That didn't surprise me as I said but the commission was in favor. I did sense that even as I say the one. He is going off and I don't know who's taking his place but Ursula Dimler is taking Klingelhutz' place. And so if I didn't hear action like a motion was made, seconded and carried, I didn't hear that. But I'm\hearing that they didn't think that that was expensive at ~ll. Because they had just . . . Senior Commission Meeting December 11, 1992 - Page 26 got through passing so~ething that was a million dollars and here's only $10,000.00. Montgomery: Well let's hope all of this will work out then. Bragg: I think it will. It's just a matter of time. AI-Jaff: We're all Carver County. I me.an why do they have to keep pointing out that we're Chanhassen, this is Chaska... Bragg: I think it's going to go away but just be ~ensitive to it. Montgomery: Sharmin, how about our time here? AI-Jaff: The bus is outside waiting. Lunch is upstairs waiting. DISCUSSION ON STARTING A CHANHASSEN HISTORICAL SOCIETY. Montgomery: Well we had better get on with it then. I think wha~we'll do with the discussion. number 7 of the Historical Society, we will take that up in January. And I think Dawn was going to talk to somebodi, Karen I think, about that. And somebody has already got something in motion wanting to start a branch so maybe we don't have towo-rry about it. We can be supportiv~of it but we'll find out. SENIOR COMMISSION COMMENTS. Montgomery: Okay, does anybody have anything else before weelose? Bragg: I'm making this fast because I did get something that I w6uld call kind of a scam item and I said I'd like to just preserit it. It came addressed tome. St. John: I got one of those too and that~s the second one I've gotten. Bragg: I think it's the second one I've gotten too and it's selling beauty. Can aging be reversed and it says, try it. It's only half price and it's...so they're hiding who they are and. St. John: No return on it and I don't know. Montgomery: Do you want to put in here. and we'll give that to Sharmin. Bragg: Get a collection of them. St. John: I almost accused Earl's daughter who lives in Los Angeles of just picking it up. Howard: . ...Golden Terrace. Has anyone. heard of Golden Terrace? Montgomery: Yeah, I got a phone 6all. I think we'd better ge on with it. Does somebody want to make a motion to adjourn? .'~'. " . ..A.... ~ Senior Commission Meeting December 11~ 1992 - Page 27 Bragg moved, St. John seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried and the meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Paul Krauss Planning Director Prepared by Nann Opheim ~