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PRC 2008 10 28 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING OCTOBER 28, 2008 Chairman Daniel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeff Daniel, Tom Kelly, Glenn Stolar, Thor Smith and Dan Campion MEMBERS ABSENT: Steve Scharfenberg and Scott Wendt STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent APPROVAL OF AGENDA:Smith moved, Campion seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman: I have one. If you have not heard, the City is in the process of constructing a new public works building and I’ll put up a diagram of that structure in a moment but first there’s a press release. You received it so our Mayor, Council and our City Manager Todd Gerhardt are very proud of the fact that in selling the bonds, nearly $8 million, we had 9 bidders from across the country and we were upgraded by two points to a AA+. The council was discussing that last evening with the bond consultant. That saved the city approximately $160,000 over the life of the bond so it was very impressive to see that. I think the statement was 1 of 14 cities in the state with that rating and probably, I’m not sure if there’s a community that’s our size with that rating so great news and has to do with the good financial planning that the community undertakes. The reserves we have. Stability of our community. Good planning… So that was good news. And here’s the building, or a plan of the building. Are you familiar with the existing location on Park Road. So if you take Audubon. Take Highway 5 to Prince’s studio. Go south on Audubon and right there on the corner of Park Road is the public works structure. This new building, I know it’s hard to tell the scale but it’s 2 ½ times larger than the existing public works building and this structure will satisfy our public works needs into the future and build out of the community. So obviously you see a large garage area. The pull through feature is very nice for, when you’re hooked up for the next day’s job and you have a trailer and a pick-up and then these are the large stalls for plow trucks and then there’s room for the plows. So the plows come off all summer. They go on all winter and they’re just stored here during the summer. Smith: So that’s a garage? Hoffman: That’s a garage, yep. That’s the garage. For all the trucks and equipment. Right now lots of our equipment sits outside. If you go out to the public works building right now, all the plows are sitting outside and you know that’s just tough on equipment not to have it stored inside. When you’re only using it 4 months out of the year, then we let…outside so here we can protect it. Reception area and the lunch room. Offices. Men’s and women’s restrooms. Then Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 you move into all the work areas. The shops. Or the work bays and then the wood shop and sign shop. What else do we have? Utility shop over here. This is the welding bay. And a car wash and truck wash. This shows the mezzanine level which is above over here. So this project, like any project, I mean it’s been on the drawing boards for nearly 10 years and this site is a site that the City has owned since the, since that industrial park was developed some years ago. These lots had some soil problems. They weren’t the premium lots in the development and so they were just eventually purchased by the City and put into a holding pattern. So we had to correct those soils as a part of this but it became a very nice site. If you have a chance, take a drive down there. It’s on Park Court so it’s directly behind Paisley Park. If you’ve driven Highway 5, it’s directly behind Paisley Park. You’ve just got to wind your way around. It’s completely surrounded by a wooded area so it’s very, it’s not exposed. It’s very screened from Highway 5. From Audubon, which is a good thing for a public works facility. They will open in January of 2010. Daniel: So access to it, you’ll have to go down. Hoffman: Park Road. Daniel: Park Road, okay. Hoffman: Park Road either from Powers or from Audubon. Daniel: Gotch ya. Hoffman: Or I guess you could take a right on Highway 5 and there’s an access there too. Smith: What will they do with the current building? Hoffman: Sell it. Market it. The sale price is estimated at about a million eight, and it will help fund this project. Daniel: Fantastic. Is there anything from the park and rec department that will benefit off of there? Hoffman: Oh absolutely. This will be our, although we have the accessory building over at Lake Ann. This will be our main headquarters. This is where our parks crews and everybody will show up on a daily basis. Typically how they operate, all…so utilities, they have a morning meeting and they get their work plan going. Parks, they have a morning meeting. Streets have a morning meetings, so they’re either meeting in one particular area if the shop or they’re meeting in the superintendent’s office to talk about the day’s work briefly and get on from there. And they’ll pick up equipment at this building, or depending on the piece of equipment, they’ll head over to the accessory building… Daniel: Okay, so Lake Ann’s an accessory building. It’s not the park and rec’s building then? 2 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Hoffman: Correct. Accessory building and it has the… Lake Ann maintenance building is also… Formerly that location was at the west fire station and Ridgeview wanted a better response time in the main core of our downtown so we worked with them and paid for that structure. But then in return for that they’re central here in our community so when we get called out for a Ridgeview…the west fire station was a reasonable location but not the best. If they had to get downtown they had to go all the way down…which was a challenge, and then head left on Highway 5, which is a challenge. Daniel: Even if you have sirens. Hoffman: There’ll be a tour coming up here next spring or summer so we’ll get you out. Take a look at the building and talk about the site. If you have any questions, let us know and we’ll try to answer them. Daniel: That’s exciting. I mean certainly the City’s going to benefit from it. And in talking to Todd Gerhardt, he’s excited about it. So are there any other amenities that will help, that are currently are not in place. I mean you mentioned the wood working. ...upgrades or are the upgrades in the. Hoffman: No. There’ll be upgrades in all areas, yeah. Our public works divisions, all of them will be able to better serve the community in this building. Everything will be upgraded and, our mechanics, utilities, it’s just going to be a much nicer facility. Daniel: Fantastic. Hoffman: Here’s the plans. You can keep one and pass them around. Just wanted to let you know that that’s ongoing and right now at present there are, this is not out to bid. It’s in the design phase but we are working in-house mainly through our street division to correct the soils. So we’re doing that in house to save those dollars and then also have the site ready for spring construction. Daniel: That’s exciting. Hoffman: You may vote here in the future elections. It may be a polling place. Daniel: Really? Hoffman: Yeah. It’s being designed to allow a polling in the lunchroom area. Stolar: Yeah, because you have this multi-purpose room here. It’s a pretty large size. Hoffman: Yeah. Stolar: That could be for large city meetings too. Like if you can’t fit in here because it seems like that’s bigger than here. 3 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Hoffman: Yep. Stolar: 2,200 square feet. Hoffman: Yeah, there could be neighborhood meetings there. Daniel: On the mezzanine, the 5320. That’s just a storage? Hoffman: Cold storage up above, yep. Well actually heated storage in this structure up above. Daniel: How amazing. Hoffman: And that will be accessed by a crane lift out of the shop and then you can also access it from the garage via forklift. Daniel: Okay. Well thanks Todd. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Okay. Hoffman: Public announcement Jerry? Ruegemer: We can discuss the Halloween party later on in programs. Do a little verbal update. Daniel: Okay. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: Daniel: I see we have some guests here. Hoffman: I think they’re for the next item unless you want to talk about something else? One at a time? Daniel: One at a time, so let’s just go on new business then. We’ll just wait for new business Todd? I mean as far as. Hoffman: Yeah. Daniel: Okay. Great. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:Stolar moved, Campion seconded to approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated September 23, 2008. FUTURE LAKE ANN PARK BALLFIELD CONCESSION BUILDING, REVIEW CONCEPTUAL DESIGN, HOISINGTON-KOEGLER GROUP. Daniel: Is there somebody here from Hoisington-Koegler, is that correct? 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Hoffman: Yep. Chair Daniels, members of the commission. This evening we’re going to have an introduction to a future proposed project at Lake Ann and it’s the Lake Ann concession building serving all the ballfields. The ballfields are really laid out 3 on one side. That was the original construction and then 4, 5 and 6 were added with the later acquisition some, a mere 20 years later. So we have not quite a wheel pattern but a 6 field structure where this current concession stand situated between Fields 2, 3, 4 and 5. Best viewing obviously is to Fields 4 and 5 at present because you have the first base or the home plate’s right there just outside the concession stand. It’s always been the concept that as Lake Ann matures we’ll add these new facilities. Modern restrooms. Better concession areas. Those type of things and so with the recent lighting addition and then the picnic shelter addition at Parkview picnic area, we want to move into the next phase of construction at Lake Ann and that includes a concession building and that future amphitheater on the site. The existing building was donated to the city by the Legion back in the late 80’s. It actually was kind of placed on site and then there was nobody around to coordinate the installation or the construction of the structure so it sat out there for a year and a half to two years. And then I believe it was in ’89 it was, the Legion had a contractor…so it served the community very well. It still serves as a focal point for that area but it’s not sized sufficiently to accommodate the type of concession activities that we want to see happen at that park. Not only for day to day use but then especially for tournaments and those type of events. Special events. And in the interim, as we’ve progressed through history, we’ve continued to fill the available concession and storage space with electronics equipment. The contactors primarily for the lights so that’s been getting smaller and smaller. If you’ve ever been there when they’re serving concessions, often time they’re outside the concession area. They’re not actually using the building. They’re more set up outside of the concession windows. They’re just using the ledge as a serving area. Tonight, well to move this item forward we’ve retained Hoisington-Koegler Group. Tonight we have Amy, it’s Bower right? Yep, with Hoisington-Koegler here and she can give us a presentation about the concept plan and they’ve presented, or they’re prepared for the proposed building. Amy Bower: Thanks Todd. I have handouts, you might have had a handout in your packet but we’ve done a little more work since then and… I can start by going through the lines we have prepared. We have building elevations and a building detail plan. Also have a site plan over an existing aerial so you can see the existing pavilion. Todd explained where that is now. But the proposed new plan would place the new concessions on top of the existing. That would take advantage of the existing mechanical room so it doesn’t have to be located. It also takes advantage of the great location that the pavilion’s at now. The high point in the park and the proximity to the ballfields and building to the playground and the ballfields. And also here are elevations, we tried to add height to the structure with a clear story and a copula. Even maybe a weather vane or something because really this is going to be a great structure that you’ll be able to see throughout the park as you drive around and it will create a great focal point and landmark. If I talk about the structure itself, the plan. This structure is 1,300 square feet. The old structure was 700 square feet. So it’s expanding it quite a bit. We’re introducing permanent restrooms. Women’s and men’s. Three stalls are shown here. Concession room. Two different storage and this storage here with, part of it will be taken up by existing mechanical that’s on site. And almost half the structure will be a covered picnic area. You can see it best in the elevation. Imagine picnic tables under here and concessions would open up underneath the covered part of the pavilion. The clear story on top would allow light into the covered picnic 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 area so it won’t be so dark, which will be a great feature, and like I mentioned before, adding this height to the structure itself. And I draw your attention to the, now the site plan, the way the structure’s positioned, is the open side of the pavilion would again be pointed toward the playground and the ballfields. And around the structure we propose a plaza that would help orchestrate all the trails coming into this site and help organize it and offer kind of a spillover for the picnic area if you want to be sitting out in the sun. And the plaza area is defined by a short seat walk. 18 inch high wall that people could sit on casually. Also helps channel traffic to the trail so people aren’t trafficking over the turf and putting turf damage. There’s a drinking fountain existing somewhat about here on the site. We’re proposing that would be removed and the drinking fountain become part of the building. Ease of maintenance and upgrade on the drinking water feature. We also show some landscaping and additional shade trees to help create shade for spectators and some shrub buffering shown here and here on either side, and help buffering the existing utilities that are right out there and highly visible. The parking here might be expanded in the future to make it more accessible to more people. I know this site is often used for the playground. There’s no ballfields so it’d be a great amenity for people on non- ballfield days also. Point to the elevation of the building. Some of the features where stone work on the lower half to kind of replicate that’s on some of the existing park buildings. We’re showing the timber built building. The siding. Gatewood or metal. Lower maintenance. We’re showing a metal roof. Clear story and the copula and weather vane. If you refer to the cost estimate, we started to list some of the things that would have to happen for this plan to be seen, and of course we start with the demo and salvage. Demo work of the existing pavilion. The utility work. The sewer line would have to be brought in. Update of the water line and electrical, which we don’t have a price on yet but we’ll get some comp to the city staff on that. Item number 3, the building cost as shown would be estimated at $273,000. We show deducts for things like the clear story. Needing the stone work or switching the metal roof to a shingled roof as ways to reduce cost if you’re trying to meet a certain budget. Also the prep kitchen as budgeted would just be a simple prep kitchen. You bring in food but for another $75,000 you could bring in a grill and ventilation hood to…concessions. The remaining items are general earth work and seat walls on the site. Amenities and landscaping. Again the plaza area could be pavers or we could switch to concrete for a budget cost. We’ve included some architectural and engineering design fees if this was to go through the typical bidding, design, construction avenue and we’ve also added a contingency of 15%. The project total comes to $465,754. And again that doesn’t include the sewer extension and utility updates which we will get some pricing on. We’ll update our cost estimates to include all that. We’re also taking more input I think and we can adjust any plans and cost estimates that have a package for people to go out and get some… If anyone has any questions or input they would like to add. Daniel: Absolutely. Why don’t we start with Thor. Smith: What is clear story? Amy Bower: Clear story, it’s not a usable space. It’s just lifting up a skylight. It’s the lifted space to allow light in. Hoffman: It was switched because of an inability to have occupancy. 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Smith: Okay, because that’s what I’m looking at this and I’m seeing that there’s a club house above there and so that’s. Amy Bower: So yeah in your packet we’ve proposed a club house but then accessibility, it’s far too expensive to put an elevator in there so it became more of a clear story and maybe not a usable. Smith: Oh, so just open with, okay. Daniel: Is that mandated Todd? Hoffman: Yes. Daniel: That we have to have handicap accessibility to the club house? Hoffman: Yes. Daniel: Okay. That would make a difference. Hoffman: If this was a private facility or being built by a private organization, you could have that club house but not in a municipal building. Daniel: Okay. Joint venture? Hoffman: No. Public space. Without an elevator. Daniel: Okay. I would say that would take out the equation because an elevator would be. Hoffman: And you know as a public organization it’s only fair… Daniel: Oh absolutely. Well especially for a club house of that size. I mean you’re looking at, what was that, 700 square feet or so? I’m just a guess, and that could have potential yeah, renting with recreation aside and certainly we’d need to have something like that accessible so. Smith: I don’t get it. I mean where’s the upper level? Hoffman: Sorry for the confusion. It’s a fast moving concept. Smith: That’s the only question I have. I think it looks like, I mean as designed it looks like a great building. Certainly would improve the concession situation at that park, that’s for sure. Campion: I had a question on the prep kitchen. What does that add that isn’t in the concessions area? 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Amy Bower: The prep kitchen, the $75,000 is you know, I think everything has to be stainless steel and stainless steel back with a different material on the floor. Total sanitation and the cooking, it has a dryer, ventilation hood. A sprinkler then because you’ve got grease. Campion: So that would just be upgrading the concessions area? Amy Bower: So that would be, yeah. A plus number that didn’t include in the total price. Hoffman: It would take the concessions area from basically counter tops where you would import equipment to a prep kitchen. Campion: A full kitchen. Daniel: What’s been the feedback Todd that you’ve seen from other organizations with regards to this particular facility? Do they anticipate, much like Lion’s Park in Victoria which has the built in grills and the whole works, is that something that they’re looking at? Or are they just. Hoffman: It’s something we want to talk about. Once you put a prep kitchen in you’re going to have, if it’s not used enough it’s going to be a whole lot of initial expense and then maintenance, long term maintenance. And so if you can have some grills in the storage area. You push the grills outside and cook the hamburgers and serve them up with hot plates and, that works very well. That’s how the high schools are doing it right now. All high schools. Stolar: Bennett Park does it that way. Hoffman: We would really have to have, almost a, either a vendor or really an established system to be investing that kind of, those kind of dollars in a park kitchen. Daniel: ...because the image I have, which I think it works out great when the Lion’s in Victoria do their annual tournament. I mean that’s a well run, well run tournament, but not only that but the grill that they use, I mean it’s fantastic so I mean, but that’s one or two times a year that they may be using it so to put that type of expense and I just wanted to get feedback from you, if that’s working or not. Hoffman: It’s all in conversation. Again, we’re not here to come up with a complete answer tonight. We just want to talk, initiate the conversation. Daniel: But absolutely. That’s what needs to be taken into consideration. Campion: This is just a question and it might be pretty ridiculous but is there such a thing as putting like the ability to have temporary walls around the picnic area so that it could be used maybe as, for some purpose in the winter or off seasons? Hoffman: There’s been buildings like that. I’m not sure how. 8 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Amy Bower: I know Nicollet Island, you know they’ve got heated tents kind of on patios. You’ve seen the little heaters or something too you can bring in. Kind of portable heaters. Daniel: I know Rosemount at their pavilion, Eden Prairie, right next to Costco, they have a seasonal facility that you can use in the winter with sliding glass doors. It’s actually a beautiful facility. Well out of our budget but the cost of the glass like that, it’d probably have to be…glass probably be tremendously expensive but yeah certainly it’s the right idea. That’s why the club house would have been interesting. Campion: Right, well and. Stolar: And I don’t think it’s that crazy of a question because my thought being how do you, you know if you’re going to invest this money, how do you make it multi-use. As well as maybe attract new types of events to Lake Ann. I don’t know if this is another ridiculous question but like do we turn one of the fields into an ice rink in the winter. This is a warming house. Campion: Yeah, a warming house. Stolar: We’ve got two lighted areas there and now we’ve got full year use that you know something like this would be fantastic. I don’t know if that’s something that we could ask them to at least give us thoughts on, or options. And then that also I think adds to the use of Lake Ann. Daniel: Yeah, I mean absolutely. There’s other things that I know we’ve discussed before with Lake Ann, and Jerry you know with regards to recreation, obviously in summer we have a budget already set aside for rental equipment such as the canoes and the kayaks, paddle boats. And I don’t know if we want to get in the business, we’ve talked about this so much like what Centennial Lakes do with the rental equipment of skates or cross country skis. Again I think it’s a good point and at least something we should take, if we’re going to have discussion about this, and it’s going to be a premiere facility, should we just think a little bit outside the box and just open to questions such as skating rink. Again bringing it into really what would be a premiere park. The only problem I can think of Glenn is that, if based on the location, to get realistically with skating and all that stuff and…steps because right now there aren’t steps at all in that place and your access to it would all be downhill with a fence. Smith: That’s the fun part of it. Daniel: I don’t know, I was just looking outside of the box. Smith: You’re also looking at, you know now you’re enclosing the building. You know the exterior. Campion: I was thinking collapsible doors or something like that so it’d be open in the summer but in the, you know that would be either removable or just open and bolted, open for the summer. 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Stolar: That’s what I was thinking too. …open this in the summer but you’d make it enclosed in the winter. Hoffman: That’s possible and then you’d just have to go to why would we do it. Is there a use there? Campion: Or we could have, I mean winter activities like yoga classes or I don’t know what, I mean to utilize the spaces. Daniel: Extra space from a heating standpoint though. Even those panels like that interlocking. They are there. I’ve seen them before as mentioned but they’d be a tremendous amount of cost. Smith: See that was my whole point is, you’re bringing your cost up like, and I have no idea but I mean it’s a tremendous amount. Campion: …is it possible as an actual what would it cost, and if it’s just ridiculous, there’s no good solution, then okay. But at least we could ask. Daniel: Realistically Lake Ann, once the snow flies, it gets pretty quiet with the exception of a wonderful day in February. Then it turns riot so I think certainly it would be nice to promote the activity to the lake. I mean really our premiere park in the city and if there is an option on that. And I guess you know again, that’s pretty much like an amphitheater. Much like what we’ve got with the existing pavilion right now that’s down by Lake Ann Beach. I mean there’s just multiple things that we could certainly take a look at but again, utilizing it 360 days versus just April through whenever. Hoffman: And in that conversation we also want to consider that Lake Ann is located almost exactly between City Center Park and the Rec Center which are two winter use facilities that are built and managed for winter recreation and so I’m not sure that the economics are going to be there to say let’s introduce an additional. You know we have a three quarter, $275,000 warming house at the Rec Center. We have a portable warming house here. We have invested in ice and lights here. We have invested in ice and lights out there. Daniel: That’s a good point Todd. Hoffman: And just the layout of having to flood a ballfield, when you kill the grass and you have to go downhill. Stolar: That’s why, yeah. I mean those are the questions but if it doesn’t make sense then it doesn’t make sense. Just it’s a nice facility to have it only used 6 months of the year. Daniel: I guess the other question is, and actually I’ll save mine. Glenn, do you have some that you want? Or Dan. Campion: That’s it for me. 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Stolar: I do have a question playing on this. Are we expecting that if we did something like this that we would rent it out? Ruegemer: To individual youth associations to perform concession operations? Stolar: Well there’s several levels. One is that, right. So is it rental or are we going to run it as a concession like the other concession stand? Hoffman: I don’t envision that we would rent this as a pavilion. It would be a concession area to be operated through a variety of arrangements, both through our youth athletic association, our volunteer groups in the community, non-profit groups. But day in and day out it’s going to be very popular for the playground that’s there so there’s also going to be a lot of groups coming in and activities going on. And with the other 3 shelters or pavilions located at Lake Susan and two at Lake Ann, obviously there would be some conflicts here for group activities. There may be an occasion, a date or a time of the week or a time of the season that’s available that we would move somebody over there for a group and may generate some revenue, but I would not envision that that would be a big part of this operation. Stolar: Then I had another question. Part of what we’re doing here, you know adding all the nice facilities. Do we have a plan to upgrade the facilities that currently exist? The washrooms and the pavilion, Lakeside pavilion. Hoffman: Not currently. Stolar: Because that’s something I think that was, we’ll get to that later at the report that some of the questions are, I think especially the bathrooms there, to upgrade those. Hoffman: We have, there have been some upgrades at that facility since the time it was opened. The building has been completely re-wired and that’s a key in the area. There’s a very high water table. Significant high water table location. We experienced some significant frost heaving in that structure the first year so we introduced enough heat to keep the frost out of the footings at the Lake Ann, the lower Lakeside pavilion. We have some heat in there now and we’ve re-wired the building. The wiring is all in conduit. That was poured in place concrete and you asked for us to do that so we could re-wire. As far as a remodel or an update, that has not been… We replaced a lot of busted up front doors that get kicked in. Kelly: So I can understand the problem. Glenn’s question. So this facility as is only kind of will truly be in operation for youth sporting events. The city would not run this like it runs the concession stand by the lake. Hoffman: We don’t think so. Kelly: Okay. So it’d purely be a Saturday-Sunday type of operation. Hoffman: Or Monday through Friday if they want to operate concessions. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Daniel: Yeah, if softball wants to, if there’s an organization through the softball leagues that they’re going to bring concessions in. Campion: Because it could potentially be concessions for parents or children using the playground. Smith: Yeah, if there’s Boy Scouts that want to run concessions or something during the softball, you know during the week. Stolar: I think what we’re saying is if you’re going to have a bunch of parents just during the day out there at the playground, they would have to go down to the lakeside pavilion to be able to get concessions. Hoffman: Correct. Daniel: Which is okay. Campion: You could have maybe vending machines or something like that there as well. Daniel: The question I have, the existing facility prompted a question. So it sounds like to me that was a modular or pre-built structure that was located. Is that true or not? Hoffman: No. Daniel: Oh it wasn’t? Hoffman: Custom built. Daniel: So it was custom built, but it was not, basically you moved it to the existing location once it got prepped? So it was manufactured. Sat for a while and then they built. They put it on top, is that correct? Hoffman: Oh the existing… Daniel: The old concession stand, yes. Hoffman: Yeah, it’s a pre-fab structure. Yep. Daniel: Okay. Is there, would it make sense for us to, if we go down this path, to take that existing structure, which I’m assuming takes a few bolts, since that’s all probably it took to get on there, and consider moving it out to like Bandimere temporarily? Hoffman: It could be. Daniel: I guess, I mean granted, it’s not the best structure but I know we had some consideration about putting something out at Bandimere and a short term investment of some footings and I 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 guess from an electrical, if that’s all we need since we’re not going to be running to power lights or anything like that but that’s a short term investment before we make any decision. Why not give it consideration. I mean it is small. I was out there a couple weeks ago during a football game and I stopped and looked and go god, that is small. You’re right. We do need something a little bit bigger, but certainly because Bandimere theoretically has what, 3 fields? So if you’re generating a smaller crowd. At least we’ll give them something. Give some shelter. If that is truly “modular” and all it takes is moving it, which is not easy but still. Hoffman: Yeah. We run it under cost benefit analysis. I’m not sure where we come out. Daniel: Compared to stick buildings going up. Hoffman: Well, or buying a new structure and having it delivered to the site. By the time you tear that thing down to what you need to move it, the value of a 20 year structure is going to be…so we’ll take a look at that. You’re going to have more cost in moving and rebuilding obviously than the value of the structure and so you’re going to take a look at that and do you want to re-purchase that. You know what does that cost so we’re going to want to take a look at that. Daniel: Yeah, and that’s exactly you know. Stolar: It comes in less than the cost to destroy it. Hoffman: Yeah, if we can find somebody to take it away for less than, all these numbers are, it’s just an idea so we get to the point… Stolar: Yeah, but there might be some group that’d say we’ll use it. Hoffman: Yeah, like our park maintenance division. You tell them we… Daniel: The second question I have, just so I understand the bidding process. The contingency of 50%, that’s just plus or minus things that we may not see or. Hoffman: Yeah. Again I wouldn’t get too. Daniel: No, but just the whole process. I’m not fixated on a number. Just the big, or… Hoffman: Yeah, we already talked about a community build. This thing, we’re talking with a group called Carver-Scott Coop who would provide all the construction labor and so the Carver- Scott Coop operates out of downtown Chaska. They have a youth build program and they normally build houses and they have two houses that are constructed on their lot that they cannot sell because of the economic slow down in housing, so they’re looking for another project and I met with them out at Lake Ann and they would be willing to do this next year during, put footings in the ground. In August and September they would want to do all the stick building all next winter which is the time that they want to use for their classroom time during the winter. And so that’s one possibility for some community invest that we have members of the 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 commission that want to talk about some fundraising opportunities and so we just want to get you understanding that these things are not inexpensive but these costs are going to be juggled around and things are going to be shifted and what can get donated and what can we, what will we have to pay for. What components. What can we do in house? Stolar: Like these pavers, could those be, you sell the bricks like what Bennett does? Hoffman: Sure. Absolutely. You know currently in our 2013 budget cycle. If you’re going to move it forward, you’re going to need to come up with something creative for the council to bite on that so that’s for another future work session. Daniel: A couple more questions. Just on the design that we have right here. Are we mandated by a number of stalls? And the only reason I ask that is, is the concession at 8 feet wide, wide enough or maybe what we want to do for a longer scale operation such as larger tournaments. Little League tournaments and things like that, so I mean if we’re going to be looking at something like this, should we bring or maximize the square footage within there because obviously we have to take into consideration shelving and storage and displays. I mean those things, and that’s why I was curious if we’re set on a specific square foot size, which is okay, because obviously the site can only offer so much. Then where would we have to give and take and you know is there a regulation or anything that we set forward that says you have to have so many stalls or anything like that Todd? Or we can make it bigger. Hoffman: The number of stalls, the pictures are fine. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: And I think you’ve answered some of your own questions on you know how hard you want to, it fits on the site. Do we need to get it bigger? There’s a narrowness to the site created by the ballfields on one side and the utilities on the other and the basic premise is we’re building around those existing utilities that are there and they’re going to sit right in this mechanical storage area. And then you go from the existing or the new facilities. Daniel: And that’s why, you know looking at 8 foot by 20, 8 foot by 18. Well actually that’s a pretty good, that’s a pretty big room. Amy Bower: Yeah, I think you, the width is kind of constrained because we need, because the grades and needing to get a trail on either side but definitely coming north, you know the bathroom could slide and the storage could slide. Daniel: Just a little, not wider. 26 foot wide by, go for 8 and possibly even 10. It’s the little things like that that you realize just how small sometimes 8 feet are. Especially when there’s 4 or 5 parents in there working, and they’re jumping all over each other trying to, it just you know, when we get to, these are little knick knack details that if we ever get to this point, I’d love to have the conversation on but at least as far as from design standpoint, I think those are the things at least I want to throw out there at this point so that when, if you go back to the drawing board. 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Amy Bower: We also can get the cost, more appropriate to decide more. Daniel: Yeah and, well I think the design is fantastic. I really do like it and I like it with regards to the clear story and the extra light that’s going to be brought in there. I’m sold on the idea of a metal roof to keep a continuation of what we have. I think with the new facility as well as all of them. The stone work is going to look great. And I think a facility of that height is going to stand out and you’ll see it from Highway 5. You’ll see it all the way from Target, which I think is good so we want to have something presentable, if we’re going to, again if we’re going to have that. I guess for us to take a look at this, I think it’s a great concept and I think you’re right Todd. We certainly need to find out where the priority lies within our budget for this particular project and I don’t know if we’ve had any discussions about a work session on this, if it becomes a priority. I mean I’d like to understand from your perspective you know where you think this might lie within the budget for the next 2 years. I mean we’ve got a lot of road projects coming up here. Path projects especially that are eating up our capital. So with building held to a minimum right now, and I don’t see anything in the near future here, we’ve got to be very careful about how we spend this money and so I guess again I’m open. I’d like to get some feedback from yourself as far as where we’re at. Hoffman: Just briefly my initial position is that we can see a city investment of $100,000 or under on this project and then you have the rest of the either material cost or labor donated. We could have this building open by spring of 2010, and so that’s what I would like to sit down with you in a work session about and talk about well how’s that going to happen. Who’s going to donate what? There are going to be certain parts of this that we’re going to have to pay for. Daniel: Absolutely. Hoffman: And so I think we can get that to $100,000 or less. We present that to the council and say here, here’s a $465,000 project. We have it down to $100,000 cash investment from the city and other donations in labor and materials for the remainder of it. We’ll have to work on that and see where it comes out. If we go that route, things like $40,000 of clear story may or may not stay in the building. But something that we’ll have to talk about so we’ll go through. Daniel: Absolutely and I think that’s the right approach and I think…concept it’s needed at some point and where that is in the future here is certainly going to be the question but I think it’d be nice for us to have a work session on this to creatively come up with some ideas and get input from the public as well and other organizations as far as how they’d like to help and contribute and see what we can do. And I think that number, that $100,000 number is workable, even within our CIP and I think the City Council will see that as an investment. So I mean a very smart investment given the cost. So is there anything we need to do on our end Todd? Hoffman: I’d like to hear from Todd this evening, his initial thoughts. Daniel: Sure. Todd? Todd Neils: …but I think a lot of the questions that I had were around sizing and they’ve been addressed. One of our concerns beyond the size of the concessions and having them available is 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 also storage. As we talked about with Mr. Ruegemer, you know during this baseball season, softball season there’s, has a tendency to be rain and so there’s a need for storage space for rains and dried off and…storage and so on and so forth. So as long as there’s an opportunity to either rent the space or have usable space for that, I think it sounds and looks fantastic. Stolar: Todd, along that line. Once the public works building gets in, do we have extra storage then in the building down at the end there? Hoffman: There could be room there but having public access to that facility where you have, once you get in the building you’re in the whole building. Stolar: Okay there’s no. Hoffman: It would be problematic. Daniel: Yeah, there certainly is, there certainly appears to be a large amount of storage. I mean at least. Stolar: But that would be for the concession area. Daniel: Oh concession and mechanical storage. Stolar: And I know when, compared to Bennett when I go into their’s, I mean it’s stacked. So but again, if we aren’t going to be supplying it, and people are bringing their own, then that becomes available storage. If we aren’t going to have anything there that. Hoffman: Yeah, we’ll address that. We can talk about it. Will this be big enough? There’s also another conversation that we’re going to be talking about in November-December and that is Ballfield #3. Do you remember when we moved the fence back on Ballfield #2? We put a, you know the batting cage out there and so that’s an accessory structure and we could talk about it as long as we keep with the architecture. You know this level, an accessory building in either the outfield of 2 or 3 and once you move those fences up and so we could talk about that at that time. Stolar: Oh yeah. We could take the building that’s here and move that over there and put it as storage. Hoffman: It’s something we want to be cautious of. These are public park facilities and buildings really need to be kept public. Once you start putting storage sheds in and putting names on them that this is a storage shed for this use, other people start to look at that and say well why don’t we have storage. Why doesn’t soccer have storage then? We don’t have storage either so it’s a complicated question… Campion: Back to that club house. So that would require an elevator, right? Hoffman: Yep. 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Campion: And the cost of an elevator ballpark is? Hoffman: About as much as the building. Campion: Really? Okay. Daniel: Alright. Is there anything else? Amy, thank you very much. You have a great design. We don’t have any old business. Stolar: I’m sorry, can I follow up on one thing here? Daniel: Oh, absolutely. Stolar: So Todd your thought is, because Dan and I were talking about whether or not we need a motion as far as getting a committee together. Your thought is the next step is you probably should have a more in depth working session as a commission and then figure out how we want to approach it at that point. Hoffman: There’s going to need to be some type of an action committee to make this happen. Similar to the veteran’s monument. You know that started as an idea. Good idea. Let’s do it so that’s what we these thoughts and drawings are about. Is this a good idea? Is it something the community wants to rally around? I’m just not sure that the council is ready to invest another half a million dollars at Lake Ann. They just got done funding the ballfield lights and so I think as a community we’re going to have to get a little bit more volume on the structure. The bricks is a great concept. If you can put names out there. You just have another conversation piece out on your building site. The community build, they were very excited about the project. The gentleman lives in Chanhassen. They’re familiar with Lake Ann. The timing works out great. As we talk tonight, you know Lake Ann shuts down. The Lake Ann ballfields shut down towards the end of the year. You know…put the footings in, and again those are, we need to look at, we have DayCo Concrete in town. We have lots of trade folks in town that have been around. Have done very well in our community and you’ve just got to go out and start talking to those people about, to them, let’s say they’re going to take this on as a job and they’re going to make $50,000 on it. Well, and then reverse it and say okay, well let’s take this on and the City has to pay material costs and a fair investment in labor. It’s really something they can show up and they can have…so you start to look for individual trades. Who do we have contacts with? Who can we partner with? Do we have to pay for their wire for, or do we have to pay for their materials? If you pay materials, you get, you can go a long ways and then having that labor donated. Because going out and getting outright cash to buy things is not always the easiest thing, but if you leverage materials with labor, I think we can get a long ways towards completing the project. Kelly: You think that can accomplish through in $60,000? Just I mean because that’s, I mean that’s a lot. Hoffman: Yeah, I think so. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: I think the project costs can come down. The clear story’s nice but if you’re going to do a community build project, I’m not sure you’re going to see that. You’re probably just going to erase that off the architectural drawing and you’re going to have a roof line much like you have over at your shelter. So I think project costs can be reduced. Demo we can do. Utility work and those type of things can be incorporated into another project. So you understand what happens, the water service is already here. It runs right underneath the building. The electrical is already there. You just got to connect it in and you know connect it to electrical service. And then sewer, there’s a grinder station right down at the turn around at the beach, and that services the other picnic pavilion concession stand right so you would do a gravity feed line from this, from these restrooms down to that grinder station, and that is a 4 inch force main that grinds that sewage and sends it all the way around Lake Ann to another lift station which is in Greenwood Shores Park. So the complexity of that system has already been put in place. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: There was a great deal of water and sewer work that went into, when we built the pavilion down there, sewer, water, electrical, it was a long ways away. Water and sewer, or water was on the other side of Highway 5. Sewer was over at Greenwood Shores. Electrical had to be brought in and so those expenses were undertaken years ago with the original development so this is going to be a lot more economical… So we’ll have to juggle those costs. The monument, the pavers were just donated by Anchor Block. Anchor Block donated all the block for the pavers for the new monument and also all the block for the retaining wall, and so community build type of projects, the more people you get behind it. The more people they know. The more friends they have and you start to build a grass roots effort to get a structure like this completed. And then in the end you really have a facility, who has ownership in the picnic pavilion? Not a lot. People are going to enjoy using it, but if this is a community build project, people are going to have a great deal of ownership out there. Both parents and kids and you can see that and so I see that as a potential benefit which is, you know a community build project builds community pride. Ownership in their park. Ownership in what they have and I think it’d be a great project for it. Campion: Todd has there been a request or an effort for getting similar plans drawn up for the amphitheater? Hoffman: There have not but we have to think about that after the first of the year. Campion: Okay. Hoffman: You know this investment, this is, we’re investing approximately $4,000 for professional services here up to this point. Fairly reasonable to get us to a conversation point without that investment. We don’t really have a direction. For one thing I really enjoy about this plan is just the layout that Amy was talking about. This plan here shows all the connections to all the trails. There are really 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 entrance points into this facility and I think their wing walls really present a nice framing of this focal point. And so it fits on the site. The existing 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 building. Reasonably serviceable but this structure is just…the type of events. The feeling they will have there when you’re up at a tournament. There’s adequate space for people to mill around and get their concessions and have conversation and get to the playground and they can see what’s going on. Right now it’s like okay, there’s 6 of you under there. That’s it. Have you seen it up here in the rain? Stolar: That will be a fundraiser for next year. We’ll just rent out that space. Build a new pavilion. I think it’s a great idea. Having the drawing helps a lot and you know as we go talk to people or start envisioning what it might be. It’s right there. Daniel: Especially visualizing the facility. It’s something to start with. Get your teeth on at least and. Hoffman: Let’s sit down, we’ll either do a Saturday morning or evening and kind of split it out and talk about the different components. Then we’ll bring our community groups in. There’s Lion’s, Rotary. Chamber or business community. All the youth athletic associations. Brick sale. We kick off the brick sale at the beginning of the season next year. Define the photo. Define the image. You get that posted. You post it on a board right there. You start listing what’s being raised. What’s being donated. Who’s doing what. It really builds some momentum to the project. Brings the community together. There’s really no park that brings the community together like Lake Ann currently does. The Miracles for Mitch and the beach and all of the other activities. The sporting events. I’m never afraid to challenge the people of our community. They really respond. Daniel: Is there anything else Todd? RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: 2008 RESERVATION PICNIC SITE EVALUATION. Ruegemer: Thank Chair Daniels. Just wrapped up our 2008 picnic campaign. Our last picnic th was scheduled I think the weekend of October 12 so we went about 2 weeks later than we normally do, but there was interest out there to continue with the nice fall with reservations so we did certainly accommodate the groups requests for that. We’re just a shade under $10,000 in revenue for the picnic rentals for the year. Certainly our most popular sites again were Lake Ann, Lake Susan and with that we did increase a little bit during the week at Lake Susan for rentals that sort of thing there too so there certainly is, certainly we’re trying to get more exposure during the week there so we can kind of fill that, kind of the blank spots in the calendar so to speak so we were pretty busy with that. We increased our programming out at Lake Ann certainly with another week of Adventure Camp out there and other types of programs that we had versus the seniors. The seniors went out there from Sue Bill’s program, or our program through the recreation department here so. They were very popular out there. It’s nice to get out in the parks. We did house roughly 10,000 people at our picnic sites through the reservations at Lake Ann and Lake Susan, so that was an increase of about 8,000 people from last year. So we’re getting certainly to attract some larger groups. Large corporations coming out there and renting the multiple sites or facilities from Bloomington’s or Edina’s, outside your Chanhassen 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 so they certainly is part of our business community as well is going out and utilizing the parks itself. I did attach just some, the picnic kind of reservation categories from 2008. I also put in 2007 for your review to kind of see where the numbers kind of ended up to be, Monday through Sunday on that, and we did simplify the, kind of the reservation process this year as far as rental fees for residents and non-residents, that sort of thing, so that certainly helped out with the overall, you know for our customers as well. We also, we certainly had everything up on our city web site as far as information so it certainly did help out people you know kind of have the picnic pricing and those type of things prior to making the phone call in to our department. We also had talked about changing the names. I know we’ve talked about that in the past. Certainly staff has talked about that and to kind of maybe make the picnic sites a little bit more geographical to Lake Ann itself so the new, currently the Lake Ann Pavilion would, could be considered a name change. The Lakeside Pavilion or some type of lake you know kind of proximity to the lake area. The new Parkview Picnic Shelter could be Hilltop Shelter or something on the lines of you know maybe make it a little bit easier for people to kind of concept as to where the location of the picnic sites are. So that’s something that the Park and Rec Commission certainly can discuss tonight and staff is certainly willing and open to any type of direction or name change that the commission would have at this time so, just general comments. Certainly people did like the picnic sites. We do get that a lot. That they’re beautiful facilities. A lot of the amenities are there like phone, bathrooms close and once the Parkview Shelter did get to the point where we could rent it, certainly the reservations did pick up. People loved the openness of the new shelter. It’s a beautiful facility. Nice views of the park itself so it really was a popular area and we’re certainly looking forward to starting a new season next year with that and going ahead and making those sets of reservations, and in fact we do have 2009 reservations that are being booked for that shelter, as well as Lake Susan and Lake Ann already at this point so. We’re definitely looking ahead. People are calling ahead for next year already and looking forward to the start of a new season so. I’ll entertain any questions the commission may have this evening. Daniel: Tom? Kelly: I do like the name, the name changes. It makes sense. Lakeside. You’re by the lake. Hilltop, you’re up on the hill. And you don’t have any, you’re not going to be, you don’t plan of neither raising nor lowering the fees for next year. Keep them constant. Ruegemer: You know we’ll bring that to the commission next month. More than likely November, early December for that. Probably be in November because then we can kind of get that set, but you know, in hard economic times, I don’t think that’s going to be my recommendation at this point so. We kind of went through all of that last year with the Parkview Shelter and a lot of those type of things kind of switching a lot of those picnic fees around. Kind of raised and lowered to get, to kind of simplify things so my recommendation at this point would probably be to keep them the same. Kelly: The same, okay. Great. Daniel: Glenn. 20 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Stolar: No. Fine with the name changes. So it makes it easier for people to distinguish. That’s fine. Hoffman: People are using geography. The one on the hill. The one by the lake… Stolar: To pay for this other shelter, we could sell naming rights. Target Lakeside. It will be much less than the new Twins stadium. …something in the future to think about. Or even as we build this, you know to say you know get 3 big donors for the new one and say each of you get a name for one of them. Well I guess we’ll have that discussion in our work session. Campion: I think the proposed names make sense. Lakeside and Hilltop are good. The additional stairway addition, was that going to happen in the spring? Hoffman: In the spring. Campion: Near the hilltop pavilion? Hoffman: Yep. Stolar: Oh, he’s using the new name already. Hoffman: Right down the center and the erosion, eroded area’s going to be dormant seeded so they’ll come in and spray down a 3 inch mat of soil and then seed underneath that so we’re going to get some growth there going in the spring. We really had a sprinkling problem, if you spent any time behind the beach playground, we’ve had erosion control back there that’s halfway full so we want to provide people with a stairway and then get some additional vegetation going over there. And you know it’s just a challenge when operating a public park system, when you have very high use areas and you have a steep hillside, which is forested, or mostly forested between and you have no significant plant growth in there. Erosion can occur. But then they leaf up and the branches and then the soil’s exposed and we have problems here so we’ll have to fix that and the stairs are programmed for this coming spring. Stolar: That’s it. Smith: One of the things that some people said the bathrooms need general painting and updating. Is that being planned for anything like that or updating? Hoffman: Something Glenn was talking about. Other than routine or normal maintenance, no. The restroom. Smith: Because I don’t think they’re that bad but. Hoffman: Yeah, they’re not the best. They’re not the worst. They’re functional and you would have to invest a good amount of money to change the feel or the look or the atmosphere because they’re really… 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Ruegemer: Pretty plain Jane. Hoffman: For public restrooms, it’s a challenge so we’ll do what we can with painting. The facilities themselves are pretty well maintained. Some of that, some of those comments come because of cleanliness. They’re not cleaned during, you know they’re clean in the morning and they’re used and so some people find them you know they’re not clean. Smith: Do we need a motion for the name changes? Hoffman: That’d be great, yeah. Daniel: I guess a couple questions I have. One, as far as with designation of each facility at Lake Ann, because obviously there’s no issue at, Lake Susan it’s the only one, but have there been any confusion amongst those that have gone down to, you know they see Lake Ann and maybe bypass the Parkview. I’m not too sure if that’s a shelter, and I guess would lead for us to have signs. They may be there for all I know. Signs within the park just pointing, you know Hilltop or Lakeview. Whatever the name change may be, and then Lakeside, so we can designate as people are coming, because again we who are used to going to Lake Ann obviously, can designate too and being on the commission obviously can do that. I’m just speaking on behalf of other citizens as well as those coming in from other communities. Hoffman: Great idea. Right there at the first intersection, yeah. Daniel: And then when they start going up, just basically Hilltop, Parkview straight. Or Lakeside straight. So I think that would just help and if we could point to where they’re going for parking and eliminate any confusion. If there’s going to be, I mean obviously if we’re going to go with the name change. Was there any suggestion Jerry a name change for Lakeview instead of Parkview? Versus Hilltop or does pretty much everyone call it Hilltop? Or will there be some confusion as well with Lakeview, Lakeside? I mean I guess. Hoffman: I wouldn’t name two lakes. Daniel: That’s what I wanted to make sure because then also you know, I’d like to see us promote that park, and if it’s like anything else, you know either you have a lake view or what do they call that at a hotel? Ocean view or actually ocean side, you know. Whatever it may be. Obviously I want to make sure that we don’t take away from that particular amenity just based off the name. Campion: Lake view and partial lake view. Stolar: Obstructed lake view. Daniel: So I guess Hilltop, if everyone’s kind of going with that right now Jerry? Ruegemer: That was just a suggestion. Certainly staff is open to other discussions. 22 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: It’s the strongest geographic feature there. You know people say it’s the one on the hill. If you say Parkview, or Lakeview, you could say, people know the one by the lake would be, you should call that either Lakeview or Lakeside. And then the other one should be something else. Stolar: Maybe just call it Something Else. Hoffman: The one on the hill is what most people call it. Daniel: And any thoughts as far as, you know we have maple or something as far as, with regards to, with the Chanhassen and. Hoffman: Maple shelter and, I mean. Daniel: Things like that. Hoffman: Kandiyohi County is Park Number One. Park Number Two. Park Number Three. Park Number Four. The Arboretum is Picnic Shelter A. Picnic Shelter B. Daniel: So they didn’t get too creative on that either. Hoffman: Yeah. I think Hilltop and. Daniel: Let’s go with, I think Hilltop and Lakeside. Is that seem to be? Stolar: I do like calling one a pavilion and the other a shelter because there are differences. Daniel: So it’d be Lakeside Pavilion and the Hilltop Shelter. Gotch ya. Okay. And I guess what would be the difference between Lake Susan Shelter and it not being a pavilion? …I can understand that because it’s just basically a covered you know but it has bathrooms and so does the other one. I just want to make sure we’re all on the same page. Campion: It should be Lake Susan Pavilion. Daniel: I mean if we’re going to do that designation, we might as well give it proper accreditation as well. And would it be Lake Susan Pavilion or Lake Susan Shelter? Hoffman: There are similarities and there are differences. Again a pavilion is enclosed much more than the Lake Susan Shelter. The Lake Susan Shelter looks, you know it’s a cross between what you have at Lake Ann so. Daniel: Kind of somewhere in the median. Okay, that’s just the way it is. I just want to make sure. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Hoffman: It’s a fair question. Stolar: No it is. Consistency. Hoffman: You’re the appointed officials. Daniel: Hey, there’s been debates on lot more monotonous…within government so. Hoffman: Lake Susan Pavilion or Lake Susan Shelter. Daniel: Alright, well let’s, who wants to make a motion to change the names? Smith: I would make a motion that we would change the name from Lake Ann Pavilion to Lakeside Pavilion and from Parkview Picnic Shelter to Hilltop Shelter for the two picnic areas at Lake Ann. Stolar: Second. Smith moved, Stolar seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to change the name from Lake Ann Pavilion to Lakeside Pavilion and Parkview Picnic Shelter to Hilltop Shelter for the two picnic areas at Lake Ann. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Daniel: Alright. Thank you Thor. And Jerry, the feedback Jerry, just specifically with Parkview. With Hilltop. We just changed it. With Hilltop. What, I mean it’s first year in circulation and what type of feedback did you get? Ruegemer: Just great. The roominess of it. The electrical outlets. You know I think people loved just kind of the openness of that area. The views. Just really just being all together. Kind of wanted big to accommodate large groups. Family reunions. Company picnics. You know I think obviously the, I think they wish there were full blown bathrooms up there, but there isn’t so. Daniel: And we didn’t plan for that. I mean the. Ruegemer: Right. It is what it is and you would certainly look, we did look to upgrade those, you know could have kind of nicer, upscale portable restrooms but they weren’t available at this time but we certainly can look into that in the future. People liked, really like the area. Smith: What was the biggest group you had at that? Ruegemer: I want to say close to 400. Daniel: Excellent. 24 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Ruegemer: We’re kind of getting into that, you know Three Rivers Park type of a group that would normally go to you know Hyland or Cliff French or Baker or any of those type of things, they can come out to our park now so, there are a lot of people that are looking to have larger types of groups. Big corporations, that sort of thing so, and that’s only going to increase in the future so. Daniel: Especially given the low cost for enjoyment. Ruegemer: And a lot of people were doing for larger picnics, they did the pavilion and the, or the Lakeside and the. Stolar: You still called it the pavilion. It’s the only pavilion. Ruegemer: I’ve had 18 years of calling that thing the pavilion but I’ll change. So but you know a lot of people depending on the size of your group will do both, so they now have you know portable restrooms and the other bathrooms, and they serve people in the other bathrooms as well. Daniel: Okay. Great Jerry. Thank you. 2008 TREE LIGHTING CEREMONY. Ruegemer: Kind of the FYI. Just kind of get it on your calendars at this point. It will be th Saturday, December 6. John has a lot of you know kind of information already put together. He’s met with the Chamber already and so a lot of the same kind of duties and responsibilities will be the same to the City and the Chamber this year, so the event will start at approximately you know 5:00 and the tree lighting will actually take place around 5:15 so working on that. You know most of the details are pretty much ironed out at this point and we’ll certainly get it on our city web site…so just put it on your calendars and any questions let us know. Daniel: Now here’s the question. What’s the over under on actually the weather being at least somewhat amicable? Because I have come to the last 2 years. I think it’s been just absolutely horrendous. Hoffman: Cold. Daniel: Really I can accept cold. Like last year it was just, wasn’t it windy. Hoffman: Windy. Cold. Daniel: Cold. I mean it was bad. Ruegemer: We could sell, by the fire, we could sell seats. Daniel: There we go. That’s what we should do. 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Smith: Raise money for the new concession stand. Hoffman: There was one night, this was the same night as the Shelter Box Sleep-Out out at the Rec Center and it was like 27 below that night. I think it was only 20 below when the tree lighting was on. Daniel: Well what we may have been stung with with regards to the tree lighting ceremony we’ve certainly earned this past season for the February Festival. It was easier to tolerate compared to the year before. Jerry, do you want to comment also on the Halloween Party. Ruegemer: Yes I would. Just to give kind of a cliff note recap of the event. Had 266 paid, and about roughly 185 pre-registered and then had walk-up’s that night, so when it was all said and done, probably around 500 people out at the Rec Center that evening. Had a show, kind of a live show in the gym versus kind of a skit. The Halloween that Didn’t Happen was the name of the kind of local theater group that performed that, and it was kind of a fun, a real fun event with that. Everybody walked away with plenty of candy and treats and that sort of thing. We had volunteers from the Chaska Key Club, Holy Family and I think Minnetonka as one of the high schools, so we had 3 different groups representing their organizations out there that night and it was a great event. Nice, beautiful night out for hayrides and that sort of thing, and John is kind of in talks right now with possibly do some type of sleigh rides for the Feb Fest with this group as well, so…maybe do sleigh rides and give you a little, kind of a little teaser on that at this point. We’re still negotiating here. Working out some of the details on that but other than that you know everybody had a great time on the hayrides. It was a beautiful night out and we were cleaned up and out of there by 9:00 so. So we’ll come back with some of the financials and stuff in November. Kind of a recap of the event. We did get a discount this year at Target for the candy. Kelly: This is not the year they were giving out discounts. Ruegemer: So we had some prior conversations with our local Target here and worked that out prior to the event. Bought around $1,400 worth of candy prior to the event. Returned I think close to $700 so we tried to really be fickle with our candy this year and kind of cut back so we could save some expense on that as well, so everybody still walked away with oodles of candy and we saved some money on the side so. Daniel: Commissioners, as far as showed up. Ruegemer: We did not have any commissioner volunteers this year, but the event went on as planned and we certainly had Plan B and Plan C in that case so everything was fine. Daniel: Well I was hoping to get a chance, but I was out of town. I would have loved to have been there with my son’s voice changing Darth Vader, because that would have been the opportunity to go, but I sure at least, I will be there next year. Ruegemer: Yep, no problem. We understand commitments and family and work and play, that sort of stuff so we always have contingency plans and it worked out just fine. 26 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Daniel: Excellent. Well I’m glad to see that it went off very well. How did the numbers compare to last year? Ruegemer: You know down a little bit but we did raise it a dollar, the fee so we came out about the same. Daniel: Okay. Great. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Daniel: There seems to be a lot of stuff in there Todd that I thought was semi-interesting. Is there anything you want to highlight? Hoffman: Fairview Medical Clinic. Medical Specialty Center. On the Tim and Dawn Erhart parcel. A proposal. Powers Boulevard south of 212. If you flip to the colorful chart with trails, that’s the primary planning, as far as parks. You see it off the big Fox Woods acquisition, just off to the north and east. The orange trails are currently on site. On Powers Boulevard. The north trail will be built as a part of this project as a condition of approval to the property line, and then the extension all the way north. This extension. Following north will be built with a future sewer line that will service this area, so as the sewer line goes through we’ll build this trail and it’s destination or, is over to the intersection of Lyman and 101. That’s the north trail. This access road trail. This access boulevard will go through and in the future it will go all the way through the Erhart parcel into the Wilson Nursery parcel and then up and come across, just about where the access to Bandimere Park is. So this would be a frontage road. Access boulevard and that trail will go all the way along the north side. And then the east trail follows an existing foot path to get residents in this area and visitors to this area up into the park. So this trail connection and this trail connection will start as a part of the trail systems that will eventually lead to the park. And that’s all surrounding the Fairview Clinic. Stolar: The east trail’s going to be when the development to the east goes on? Hoffman: Yes. Or… Stolar: Because is that the land that we’re. Hoffman: It’s land that will be dedicated to the city as a conservation easement. Stolar: Once the rest of the land gets. Hoffman: It will come with Fairview. 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Stolar: Oh we’re getting it with Fairview. Hoffman: All the way to the pond yeah. Stolar: Because doesn’t Erhart’s have more land east? Hoffman: They do. Yep. They’ll develop that, but we think this will come with the Fairview Clinic site as a preservation outlook. Stolar: And then we’ll build that trail at that point? Hoffman: Yes. Stolar: Okay. Daniel: Isn’t Fairview already off of Powers? And 5. That’s Ridgeview, oh. So this is Fairview. Oh, gotch ya. Hoffman: And then Park Nicollet. Daniel: Park Nicollet, all the way up. Plenty of, okay. Smith: So will this be re-platted or something that’s set, the Erhart’s essentially selling a portion of his property? Hoffman: Yes. Smith: Jointly or whatever. Hoffman: Yes. Kelly: And then where did you say those two yellow trails off to the left there are going to go? Hoffman: These? Kelly: Yep. Hoffman: Those will go to the access boulevard that goes over to Bluff Creek Boulevard right now which is over to Audubon in the Ryland development. So right now when you come off of Audubon and you hit, what are the townhouses over there called, by K. Hovnanian? Liberty at Bluff Creek. Daniel: Yep. Hoffman: So that’s the other end of that road. And these properties are the Fox and Dorsey properties. This is the proposed lifestyle center site, and Mr. Fox and Mr. Dorsey were in, mini- 28 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 mall. Mega-mall. Outdoor mall. Lifestyle center. Whatever you want to call it. But again the market is not there right now for that development so they’re in a holding pattern as well. Kelly: There’s a house right there too isn’t there? Hoffman: Mr. Dorsey’s house. Daniel: What do they plan to do with that house? Hoffman: Don’t know. Daniel: God it’s a beautiful home. Smith: It’s vacant. Daniel: It’s been vacant for what, a year now? Hoffman: When you’re sitting on 10 or 20 million dollars worth of land. Daniel: What does a small little house on that really matter? Smith: That’s a 9,000 square foot house. Daniel: Put me in that position. Alright. Is there anything that we can, I mean when this Fairview, does it open up opportunities based on it’s proximity to the park that we’re having adjacent to it? Hoffman: For development or? Daniel: Not necessarily development but for, are there things that we want to do such as natural trails that we could possibly negotiate based off his proximity and access. I mean is there anything that they would, that we could benefit. Hoffman: Yeah, as a sponsor. Daniel: Sponsor, exactly. Hoffman: Right now they’re having a challenging time just getting through the site plan process and accepting our conditions that we’re applying to them right now. I’m not sure they’re. Daniel: So they’re really not interested at this point talking to Park and Rec Commission about sponsoring trails? Hoffman: I don’t think so. You could ask. Daniel: You never know. 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Stolar: Well you know a year from now. They’re settled in… In reality we’re along the lines of healthful living and all that, natural preserve is right there. Having some nature trails sponsored by them that are you know natural. Daniel: I’m not talking paved. I think just a natural. Stolar: Wood chip. Daniel: Very similar to like we have at the dog park, because I think that park as designed, much like at Kerber, it’s going to be a natural trail. It’s going to be dense woods. People could go in. Go for a nice walk. ...quiet next to a freeway, but at least get something. Some relaxment and. Hoffman: It’s fairly quiet because of the berming there. Daniel: Oh yeah. I supposed there are. Hoffman: Yeah. Especially during the vegetative time. Daniel: So I mean it’s, I just you know again, given the opportunity and if they’re very excited about this particular property, then what could we do to help them, have them help us sponsor that particular facility. And that particular park I should say and turn it into something that can be of use a lot sooner than later. So just a thought. The other thing I noticed on here from, it looks like you Todd to Kate Aanenson. Parks and open space plan. I noticed you got disc golf course, actually Glenn as brought up on a couple occasions and that’s always some excitement. Is this, is there anything that you’d like to. Hoffman: These are review comments back to the County on their park and open space system plan for the 2030 comp plan, so we just wanted to bring the county up to date on our thoughts in all of these different areas. Primarily, or most notably trail connection between Herman Field and Minnewashta Regional, which they do not acknowledge on their master plan. They have a, just no… Daniel: It wasn’t there. Hoffman: We want them to upgrade their plan. We feel it’s in the best interest of our neighbors there to have an identified and public access, so really what that’s about is, there are certain people that know about that, and there are certain people that don’t know about that, and why would you want to let somebody live in a neighborhood for 10 or 15 years and all of a sudden they would say you mean, there’s an access to Lake Minnewashta that I never knew about? And so that’s the point that I would just hate to see us, be that with a neighbor and so I would like to see it on the plan. Publicized. Wrote it. Developed so we have an official connection between the park. The two parks. Stolar: You mention in the comment on the 101 north trail. What was, I mean we don’t see their report but what was their. 30 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Hoffman: Their comment is that it’s a type of a trail you should build. Stolar: Why do they say that? Hoffman: Because their consultant didn’t like the design. You know pigeoned hole type of a trail and in some cases that’s the way you have to build trails when you’re fitting them into an existing alignment or an existing corridor. So we just didn’t feel it was fair that they signaled out the 101 trail as a bad example for a trail… Stolar: And so when do we hear back from them on the. Hoffman: Prior to their publishing of the plan. Stolar: Is there anything that we need to do like, discuss with them or this is the process and they’ll either take it or not and there’s not. Hoffman: Well you could mention it to Commissioner Workman because he worked on a half a million grant for that trail, and as a commissioner with the county I’m not sure he’s going to take too fondly to having this trail mentioned…their own comp plan. Stolar: But I’m thinking more just in the general things so like the disc golf, you know to support. I guess will you get a version back before they finalize it that says whether or not they operated these? Hoffman: I’ll bring any response that they bring to us back to you again. They’re not required by law. They’re not required to respond. We think they’ll respond. Daniel: Just good, open communications is what we’re doing now. Todd a quick question on the, their lack of, or lack of acknowledgement of the access from the park. Or lack to their park. I can’t remember and I know I asked this before. Is it two fold one concerns on revenue and two liability. Not necessarily that order. Hoffman: It think it’s primarily what they tell me is, it’s based on the master plan that this is not a pedestrian trail access. That’s a cross country ski trail where they’re accessing, but also a summer walking trail, and I think what they’re considering pedestrian access is asphalt trails in the future. They have no plans to make this an asphalt trail so I think what they’re shying away from is inviting walkers onto a winter use trail system. And so in the winter that’s cross country groomed. Cross country ski trail which they try to reduce or eliminate walking on. So now you have a neighborhood connection where a majority of your people would come via walking. So their concern is the trail type. Daniel: That’s a legitimate concern obviously, especially those who cross country ski. Hoffman: Here come all the walkers. Knocking down the. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 Kelly: Nice grooves. Hoffman: Yeah, yeah. The grooves so it’s something to be addressed. And then please take out your calendar and post it at your home office or work office for the meetings for 2009. Daniel: Okay. Are there any other discussions or anything Todd that we’ve, or Jerry, to cover. Hoffman: Preview of November. We’ll be talking about Ballfield #3 at Lake Ann. And preview to December. That’s our early meeting in the month. We have all staff members here and then we have our commission social meeting after that, so make sure you have those on your calendars. Daniel: Excellent. Kelly: I do want to say I’ve gotten a lot of very positive comments about the new Arboretum trail. They really enjoy that, going through the wooded area. Hoffman: And more to come. The Superdog trail is on tap. Kelly: The Superdog trail? Hoffman: I front of the Superdog Hotel. So when you come out of the Arboretum trail, the new trail, you want to just, you just keep going straight to Holiday. That trail is going to be built there on that section of roadway. Kelly: Oh, okay. All the way to 41? Hoffman: Yep. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: All the way to 41. And then, so then you can cross at a stop light and access the Arboretum or Chaska’s trails. Campion: Is that the official name for the trail? Hoffman: The Superdog trail. It’s the Superdog Hotel. So the official planning name is Superdog trail. Smith: What is the date of our November meeting? Hoffman: This November? It would be. Ruegemer: November? Or oh, that’s going to be December. th Hoffman: Like the 28. 32 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - October 28, 2008 th Smith: 25? th Daniel: 5 I think yeah. Hoffman: The Tuesday before Thanksgiving. th Daniel: The 27 is Thanksgiving, right. Alright. Well I think we can adjourn things here. Motion to adjourn. Kelly moved, Campion seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 33