PRC 2002 05 29CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 29, 2002
Chairman Franks called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Rod Franks, Paula Atkins, Jack Spizale, David Happe, Amy O'Shea,
and Glenn Stolar
MEMBERS ABSENT: Tom Kelly
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Corey Hoen, Recreation
Supervisor
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Mark Nettescheim: I'm Mark Nettescheim and I am at 9151Great Plains Boulevard, right off of
Bandimere Park. I'm going to be doing an Eagle project and I was proposing that I'd put up 3
benches around the new playground structure that they have there and for the last few days I've
been watching the parents drive up in their cars and sit there on the grass watching their kids so. I
watched them where they sat and most of them sat in the shade of the tree right there so I put a
bench over by the tree, and then I put one behind it because someone to watch the baseball games
plus watch their kids at the same time. Then the other one over by the bike path, closer to the
park. Where they park the cars because it's easier access and it's a good place to put it. This is
kind of the bench that I was proposing to do. It's the same ones you guys have in there right now
and I just drew it up again as measurements and everything on it.
Hoffman: And what's the material?
Mark Nettescheim: The legs on it are metal and the back and seat are wood. That just has more
measurements. More in detail. In that area it shows the base which is a concrete slab that will be
the foundation of the bench. That's all.
Hoffman: Questions for Mark? You want to talk about the process a little bit. When you're
going to start and who's going to help.
Mark Nettescheim: I'm going to try to get the people to contact from Todd, the bench people and
I'll call them and see if they can help and what time I can get the stuff delivered and ordered.
And after that, see how it goes so.
Franks: Mark, or Todd, do the benches come constructed?
Mark Nettescheim: You have to put them together.
Franks: You have to put them together.
Mark Nettescheim: Yes.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Alright. And are you pouring the concrete for the slab?
Mark Nettescheim: Yes, we are.
Franks: Okay. So you'll be doing all that work?
Mark Nettescheim: Yes.
Franks: Do we provide the materials for that then?
Hoffman: Eagle Scout projects in the city, traditionally we are approached by Eagle Scouts who
want to complete their project. The City pays for the materials. The Scouts coordinates the
project and performs the labor and create a relationship.
Franks: About how many hours Mark are you estimating it will take to complete your project?
Mark Nettescheim: I'm guessing it will take about 3 to 4 hours for the concrete to dry and to get
the base of the bench in. Then to construct the rest of it will be another 2 hours or so. So I'll
have some help from our church too so it won't take that long.
Happe: Does it require any type of special permits or anything to do what he needs to do? Great.
O'Shea: Mark, does the wood come finished or do you have to put a sealant on it or a varnish?
Mark Nettescheim: I think it comes sealed already so it should be.
O'Shea: It's all set?
Mark Nettescheim: Yeah.
O'Shea: Okay.
Hoffman: So these will be the benches that we currently have in the park.
Franks: Well it sure is needed there. I see all the parents standing around or sitting on the
ground so it was good to recognize the need. Todd, do we need to approve the project tonight
with a formal vote or? We can go ahead and do that tonight then?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Franks: Are there any further, thanks a lot Mark. Are there any other questions or comments
from the commission? Is there a motion then to approve this project?
Spizale: I'll make a motion to approve the project as it's been shown.
Franks: Is there a second?
Stolar: Second.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Spizale moved, Stolar seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the
Eagle Scout project proposed by Mark Nettescheim as presented. All voted in favor and the
motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
Franks: We look forward to seeing those benches get put in. Thanks.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Happe moved, O'Shea seconded to approve the Minutes of
the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated April 23, 2002 as presented. All voted
in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0.
INITIATE DEVELOPMENT OF A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION PACKAGE,
CHANHASSEN COMMUNITY CENTER.
Hoffman: Members of the commission. Tonight we have a charge from the City Council to
initiate the development of a request for information package for our Chanhassen Community
Center, or at least to investigate the possibility with a variety of private and public service
providers who are in the business of recreation service provision. To generally reach out to them.
Inquire what their level of interest is in coming to Chanhassen and partnering with the city to
provide some type of recreational facilities. So the history that you have in your package
includes the back side of the cover memorandum is the Request for Information charge statement.
What is our goal? The goal of the commission is, you have a duty of preparing a Request for
Information packet to deliver to private and public recreation service providers. Results desired
are simply to ascertain the level of interest that private and public recreation service providers
have in joining in a partnership with the city. Building a community center, or community
recreation facility. Scope ofthe responsibility. Commission shall report back to the City Council
and the commission has a good deal of leeway and authority of using and consulting with
resources but you do not have the authority to act on behalf of the City Council to enter into any
agreements or intended agreements. The timeline. Tonight we start with the initial conversation
and then I present a work outline to the City Council that you would prepare this evening. The
l0th. The 25th the commission comes back and finishes that project. If need be you can come
back on the 11th, an independent evening and complete the project and then the council would
like to see your final report on July 8th. Again the commission has the ability to go ahead and
let's say you simply feel overwhelmed with this project and you would like to bring a consultant
in for a one month period of time to help with the formulation of this project, you certainly can do
that. Or you can bring in any other outside consultants simply for information purposes. You
will provide written reports via the Park and Recreation Commission Director to the City Council
and you are expected as members of the park commission to conduct background fact finding
consultations and come to meetings prepared to discuss your discoveries. Otherwise we simply
will not be able to meet the timeline if we do this in a more formal process. So you're going to
need to out in the street working some contacts and talking to people about this. There's a
newspaper article about the meeting that the council held to initiate this process and then the
remainder of the material in your packet is all background information from the survey to the city
held, and this is what the City Council is responding to. Is the community survey. This council
feels very strongly that they invested the time and resources in a community survey, which is a
very good tool to gauge what a community would like to see, and they're responding in the
recreation area to the fact that approximately 2 out of 3 people would like to see some type of
community center facility in this town. There's also a great interest in a pool facility in this city
of Chanhassen as well. The other data goes back to many of the referendums, just to get a feel
because where the council sits today is that you ought to do this. The city would like to move
forward. It's really going to take a referendum vote to raise taxes to raise the money to put this
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
type of a facility on the streets so that's the reason for the information on the referendums. One
that goes back 6 or 8 years through a variety of referendums that were held in the city for other
proposed community centers at the time. With that Chair, I'll tum it back over to you to facilitate
that process and if we can make it as simple or as difficult as we would like. Basically what
we're doing is attempting to reach out to Lifetime, Northwest, the Y, the schools, anybody else
that we can put on that list and send a letter. This is the City of Chanhassen. They've all shown
interest to date and now it's just formalizing the process to start that and initiate those
conversations again.
Franks: Right Todd, just a couple of questions first before we start, if that's okay. The first is the
cost of hiring a consultant to take a look at this is I'm sure, is far ranging but ballpark it for us.
Hoffman: 80 bucks an hour. 60 bucks an hour.
Franks: Okay. My read on this was, and I don't know if the other commission members had the
same kind of idea but the council is actually looking to us to do a lot of the work here and present
them with some information and some options. So if we go ahead and use a consultant, my
feeling would be to really target the use of the consultant to some real specific and technical
questions which we're not really able to address with it being a citizen commission. But what I'd
like to do is to take the time tonight, and hopefully it's not going to take too much time, and really
narrow down what our thinking is and how we'd like to go through this process. And then maybe
we'll have a better idea about when, if and how we would choose to use a consultant on some of
the more technical issues. What I'd like to do too is open it up in a sense of more of a work
session type of discussion so we can get some ideas flowing. I'd like to know from the other
members of the commission what some of their thoughts and ideas were concerning our task and
the timeline. So go ahead Glenn.
Stolar: One question, and I'm not sure of the processes here. How I work, there's a huge
difference between an RFI and an RFP. Right? The RFI, all we're asking for them is to give us a
ballpark of what they think we would do. We'd put criteria there. I would hope we'd be able to
borrow RFI's from others and basically get the information and ascertain whether this is
something we should forward to the next phase.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: Okay. So we would have the opportunity at that phase to use a consultant for an RFP
where I really would want to make sure we have the expertise in choosing.
Hoffman: And the council made that conscience differentiation between the two.
Stolar: Which is important, so I agree with you. Rather that we should very limit our use to just
make sure, did we miss anything in this RFI that's going to be a gotcha later. That we'd say oh
yeah, this is a good idea. Go forward with this. You remembered this, this, this and this. Okay.
So if that's what you're suggesting, I agree with that approach.
Franks: That's what I'm suggesting.
Stolar: And then the other question is, do we have a bank of RFI's that we know of right now
that we could borrow to start looking at and get at least for me personally, I would want to be
more important as to what one of these would look like in this type of environment.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Are you talking from the other communities?
Stolar: Other communities, yeah. I don't know if any of the associations carry knowledge banks
like that that you can borrow from. Chaska obviously we could talk to them.
Hoffman: Yeah. We can talk to communities. There's not a bank out there but you can find a
thousand RFP's. RFI's are a little different animals but.
Stolar: Well even an RFP we can reduce to get our, I mean that actually allows us to look at the
broader set of requirements, although it's a lot more reading.
Hoffman: Absolutely. But I think the RFI, it's going to say, we, the City of Chanhassen are
interested in building, providing this service to our residents. Here's what we'd like to include in
it. This is what we see as a potential location. Or the potential locations and some of those types
of things so it's very generic in nature but it's a good idea to check into some of those other ones
so I'll do that.
Franks: Okay. Then that hopefully leads into the next question is what really are we looking for
in a community center? What are the components that our community is really wanting to be a
part of the community center?
Happe: And part and parcel of that question Chairman Franks is I know that you, along with the
council and the previous Park and Recreation Commission visited a number of community
centers on kind of a whirlwind tour so I'm interested in what some of those shared observations
were or some of those basic elements that you guys looked at at the time that would be something
that we'd want to consider for this community center.
Franks: Well we saw the whole, really the whole range. Everything from more basic to the more
extravagant with ice sheets and outdoor water park and indoor water park and full health club
facilities to much more basic so it can all be done. It's what do we want done in our community?
Hoffman: The council did express that they though the Plymouth model should be the base,
which is the larger facility.
Franks: Did they give any indication about the ice sheet? Indoor pool? Outdoor pool? Health
club facilities?
Spizale: Indoor and outdoor.
Franks: So some ofthethings we may belookingforis an indoor aquatic facility. In co~unction
with an outdoor.
Spizale: I think the other ones we saw had nice gyms. Running track. I'm trying to think of
some of the stuff we saw.
Stolar: Exercise rooms or weight rooms. And if you look at the question 146 on the survey, it
lists several things there for which they voted the, 65 percent that it had a walking/running track,
gymnasiums, aerobics room. Had racquetball courts on that. I'm not so sure that that was a part
of that.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Well right here we can already diverge in two different directions. Are we looking at a
whole new community center concept, that may be in a partnership with a private enterprise that's
going to provide the workout space or cardiovascular space like a Lifetime does, or are we really
looking at keeping our rec center that we have with gym space and very limited workout space
and moving towards just constructing an aquatics facility? I guess that's what I'd like to look at
first. How expansive do we want to be? We already have some recreational capability, workout
capability here. It's really limited.
Happe: I think too Rod when you look at the community survey I think that the aquatics was
super high. I think that ice sheet or a separate focus on ice arena was extremely low. So my
preference would be not to focus on that.
Franks: Well I'm thinking on exercise. Like workout areas. We have the small workout area at
our current community center, and gym space that's available there as well.
Stolar: The gym space is pretty crowded there, so gym space may still be a capacity issue. I'm
not sure about the workout facilities. Do we know Todd?
Hoffman: They're self loading, but we can triple that space.
Stolar: Okay. And is that true for the gym space too? I'm only there a little bit but every time
I'm there, it's packed.
Hoffman: It's full during the winter. Empty now.
Spizale: I think a consideration too is will we be sharing this with the schools, which I'm sure we
would be at some point. As far as size.
Franks: Sharing what parts of the project with the schools?
Spizale: Well I think some of the other ones we looked at were shared with high schools and
grade schools and different things and I think that's consideration too. Will we be sharing this
facility with a school?
Franks: As far as maybe for swim meets and.
Spizale: Yeah.
Franks: So really Jack you're looking at a partnership that involves the city, the school district
and maybe another entity as well?
Spizale: Yes. I think it's a thought. You know especially if we build a high school in the future.
Franks: Well now that was indicated too in that article in the newspaper anyways is that the
possibility of this being constructed in conjunction with the high school.
Hoffman: There's the possibility that they separated the two issues for clarity at this point.
Franks: Okay. Is there thinking as far as siting any future community center, that it would be
sited with the future school, if one occurs?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Could be. I think they're on parallel tracks because one or both of these may
disappear and it may fizzle out and so they wanted to keep the chances alive for as high
percentage of success as possible so start planning for a community center. Start planning for
high school. If they both evolve to the point where now they look like okay, these things can
happen. Let's put them together, then you continue on down that path of discovery at that point.
Stolar: Would that change the availability of space or the location, I would assume, depending on
whether we combine with the school or not. Which may change how a private venture would
approach us.
Hoffman: Yes.
Stolar: Do we have a listing of possible sites?
Hoffman: Yes.
Stolar: And then we can divide them up and say you know, if it's solo it'd probably be in these
sites. If it's with a school.
Happe: Should we review that listing with potential sites, we should create a listing of likely
targets or public organizations that would be the logical candidate approach for a public/private
partnership.
Franks: And the list of preferred components to the community center.
Hoffman: And the Planning Commission will deliver to City Council the site analysis for a high
school. So there's going to be a lot of overlap between sites for high school sites and potential
sites for community center.
Franks: Alright. So we're really looking at having, and ifI understand so far, an indoor and
outdoor aquatics, correct?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: As one of the listings and workout space and gym, extra gym space.
Happe: What impact though Todd would a facility like this have on the existing community
center or the investment, or the existing rec center and the investment that we've made over
there? I mean does that, do we obsolete ourselves on the dollars that we've already spent by
duplicating this on a new facility?
Hoffman: No. No. The recreation center, when this town is fully developed at 35,000, the
recreation center will be a wonderful compliment, if it's still operating, to any type of community
center they would build, I don't care how extravagant.
Happe: Okay. And there could be an interchange between those two facilities so that you have a
joint membership per se or something.
O'Shea: So Todd, am I hearing that the meetings rooms out there are being utilized a lot.
Hoffman: A lot.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
O'Shea: And so there would be, possibly we should be considering more community, indoor
community space. Meeting rooms at a community center.
Hoffman: Well there'd probably be a shift. So right now those meeting rooms are used for
recreational programming. Tai Kawn Do, Tai Chi, Yoga, all those things. Well if those go into a
new community center, then it opens up space for more community type meetings which was one
of the primary reasons that the recreation center was developed. There just was not enough
public meeting space for local associations, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, all the different meetings
that take place in a community and the recreation center has provided that. But people get boxed
out because there's just too many things going on at the recreation center right now during the
school year. There should be no worries about the impact to what this facility would do to the
recreation center. There's plenty of choices for the recreation center and it's space and they're
not limited to just keeping it.
Franks: You know and this just kind of complicates. When I first saw this Todd I have to admit I
thought, how are we going to do this in this one meeting, really within any kind of depth. Really
too when we sit down, let's say we bring in someone from Lifetime and someone from the
YMCA for example to give us some information. The YMCA is going to have a facility with
meeting space in it. Lifetime is going to have a facility without any meeting space in it, and so
you know it's like two different types of approaches even about how they're going to, the type of
facility that they would construct.
Happe: If I'm understanding the assignment correctly, we go out and get the legwork done. Get
the homework done. Get various options that could be components of this and serve that up, so
that's not, I mean that's not a terrible thing that there's going to be some different approaches to
what this facility might look and feel like.
Hoffman: I don't think so. The commission doesn't have to come up with a solution of what this
building would be. Just go out to an RFI. Suggestions about what it should be. Anybody wants
to sit down and talk to you, they want to know what you're thinking. Indoor/outdoor pool. These
are the kind of facilities we want and they're going to go oh. Full blown community center type
facility. That's what they're looking for. Okay, now we know where we're at. Well here's how
we enter into that equation. We're a for profit for this. We're non-profit for business. We're a
school so it appears this is what we need to do and here's what you would need to do and then
when we get that set of information and then the council would receive it. So here's the Y's
proposal. Here's Lifetime's proposal. Here's the school district's proposal or at least, the school
district would probably not come forward with a proposal. That's not the type of organization
they are, but they'll come forward and they'll say you know, we're interested in parking. We
need these facilities as well so, that would be the kind of respond I would expect from the school
district.
Franks: On my list then was an indoor and outdoor aquatic facility, exercise area, classic gym
space, and daycare facilities and that's what kind of rounded out my list of amenities that I'd want
to see in, at a minimum, in what any kind of community center that we build. Or that got
constructed in town.
Stolar: In going along with that, I don't know how specific we want to get in the RFI but I also
want them to keep in mind smaller children, for example separate gyms or separate facilities that
would allow smaller children either kids pool as an example. Or zero depth pool.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Well I like the zero entry pool, yes.
Stolar: The zero depth pools. A smaller gym that would be only for children with lower baskets
or lower activities. Those sort of things. Trying to think of some of the health clubs I've been to
and what have they done.
Happe: Flagship does a great job.
Stolar: Yeah, that's where we belong.
Happe: With that separate gym with the little hoops for the little guys.
Stolar: Little hoops for little guys and then they also use that in the moming, people play indoor
soccer there.
Happe: It's great program space.
Stolar: I assume we, based on the conversation and the van ride we had, we probably don't want
to ask for tennis courts on this.
Atkins: I would like to ask for a performance arts space though.
Happe: I was wondering if you were going to, and maybe that ties in with the, maybe that's part
of a community or a meeting room. Maybe that doesn't have to be a separate facility. Maybe
there's auditorium seating in a meeting rooms.
Franks: Well when you see how nicely I think it fits in, in the Chaska Community Center. It
certainly is the type of amenity that could fit into a community center.
Atkins: I don't think it's a priority with very many people right now. I don't know how it would
go over if you'd ask them but I think for long range planning it definitely would be something to
plan for.
Happe: It's got to be a killer in terms of cost per square footage for bang for the buck in terms of
how much use it's going to get against a lot of the other spaces.
Franks: Yeah, the for profit companies I figure would have a hard time justifying the space.
Hoffman: That's your's on the end of the building.
Atkins: Well if there was, I'm talking about a high school some day of course, that certainly
would be planned into that. Or it could be.
Hoffman: It'd be wonderful there. People get a little bit, schools and profits can go together.
Franks: All the time.
Hoffman: Yeah so, in fact we bring a for profit in here and they say, you tell them, oh by the way
there's $14 million coming over from the school district to put into this facility and they're not
going to turn their back on that. So there's a lot of exciting possibilities that could happen.
Plymouth is a huge, huge concept. Big time facility. Huge, or multi-faceted agreements between
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
the school district and the city and the city and Lifetime and just, but that's what makes it happen.
Today's environment, the days are gone of the city building a community center on it's own.
Those days are simply gone so, partnerships and they've evolved over time. At least all the
partners I think are becoming more astute as they go into these...
Stolar: ...this RFI want to have them bring in some of their history. Some of their background. I
don't know that we'd want to venture with someone who's never done it before. So part of the
RFI is their experience. Yeah, where have they done it.
Happe: Thanks Mark.
Hoffman: Good night.
O'Shea: And to some of the facilities, I think we would look also at family changing rooms in
there. Again I don't know how specific we want to get right now, but the indoor aquatic facility,
I think through the survey.., and something that's multi-faceted with zero depth to really fun
slides and a place where you can teach swimming lessons and yet have a swim team practice so
it's got to have a lot of different uses and layout, and I think it should be quite extensive when we
look at it. Because it seems like a real high need out here and something that also can be used for
swimming lessons. That kind of thing.
Franks: I think there's a necessity for any facility out here to be really sensitive to families and
children in the construction of the facilities like you say. That the family changing, family locker
rooms. The gyms and pools that are geared towards not only adults but to the children and
families as well.
O'Shea: I do. The thing also with the aging population, and it works well with younger kids too
is, another area that can have a warmer temp as well for the pool water and that way you're
serving seniors as well as the young kids and they can leam a lot faster in the swimming lessons
and that type of thing. So I think that would be in keeping to do too as a warmer temp pool
versus something that doesn't have to.
Stolar: You mean two different types of approaches because the clubs need the colder temp
pools, so if you ever want to get club activity in there, they want cold water. And I agree with
you, you need both.
O'Shea: Right.
Stolar: Because for seniors, if you go to the Courage Center they have senior activities there. Of
course that water's like 90 degrees. Doing their water exercise, yeah.
Hoffman: Bath water.
O'Shea: And even like at Foss Swim School, they keep their's really pretty nice and warm. But
again I do think we should look at the older generation too, which we're approaching. But so I
think that's a key when we look at the aquatic facility as well. And a layout that makes sense for
life guard placement too, but with that again we're getting real nit picky. And I don't know if, I
looked at it as, how can we get the drain off`the city. I see this as, that I don't see the rec center
as being in the negative. In the red. I see that being able to produce money or break even with
this facility. I also see possibilities for skate park expansion. So I think when you look at the
facility, what's the whole thing that the city is asking for. You know the kids want more skate
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
park. And kind of tie it all in, just like a performing arts center, and then if we do team up with
the school, I mean it would fit so nicely. If we look at it globally, what are the citizens asking and
then somehow this could all work into a whole facility of ways of getting the product in. But I do
see, like for example the skate park. I see that growing because it's here to say and a BIVLX
course. That, instead of having the city have the burden of those telephone calls of complaints
about language use and not being supervised, possibly this facility would take on that burden and
work in conjunction with the city as well as that new facility and have it staffed and then they
handle the staffing. Somewhat like they do like Lake Ann where they've got life guards. It's a
lot cheaper from somebody who's in that business of hiring part time staff anyway to do it, and
they're already doing staff`training and...package so it's not that big a burden for them.
Hoffman: That's a model used in many communities already. It's not necessarily right on site,
but other service providers manage the skate parks.
O'Shea: So again in the facility, I do see part of like for example skate park. Not saying maybe
it wouldn't be located there but somewhere where it could be developed into more ramps. More
programs offered.
Hoffman: Something we leamed at Plymouth, when we talk about ice. In ice conversations, the
last time it was brought up in Chanhassen was when the second sheet was added onto Chaska
Community Center so at that time the City, a piece of land down, just behind the round building
at Prince's, that we were offering up for free to the skate association, the hockey association, and
they were going to build that second sheet of ice here in Chanhassen on that property. Well
Chaska didn't want to see that happen so they came in at the last moment and said, well let's put
the second sheet onto the arena and here's the deal that we'll give you to make that happen. So
now we have 2 sheets in Chaska. Eden Prairie has 2 sheets just down Highway 5 and they're
looking to build a third. That's the hockey association is looking to build a third. They're
financing. And then Minnetonka has their sheets and Victoria is looking to build a sheet there so
it might be that the history of Chanhassen will never have an ice arena in town. And that's a
service delivery decision. You know people that use it have to drive to one of these other
facilities, but the fact is, in Ramsey County last winter they sold ice at 50 percent because the use
of those facilities was, too many built and the use going down so they're selling ice time at 50
percent, and now no longer can you cover your operating costs and you're starting to take a hurt
financially. In Plymouth, the field house generates as much revenue as the ice arena at about 25
percent of the cost. So they're making money, a lot of money on their field house where they're
just paying their way on their ice arena, which was an amazing statistic and so their field house is
a very, they take the cover off` in the summer. They put the cover on in the winter and so now
you have field space inside during the winter for your soccer programs, golf programs, walking,
running, track programs, Lacrosse programs, all outside programs. It's a very successful field
house in Plymouth.
Happe: I think there's a possibility that we haven't talked about yet too Chairman because I think
there's, the potential may be for an interesting hybrid because you have local companies like Foss
who are great aquatic programmers, but may not be the experts in the golf dome. Whereas you
have a Rain, Snow & Shine that may be a potential partner and take a look at some type of indoor
range. I just noticed that 50 percent of the surveyors respondents either strongly supported or
somewhat supported the development of a municipal golf course. You could bring in a third
partner in, I mean maybe there's an opportunity for like a Northwest to specialize or focus on the
things that they do well, and to have really a conglomerate of multiple service providers. I don't
know. Maybe. That's a little different twist on what we've been talking about.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: I kind of want to bring this all in a little bit, ifI can and I'm a linear thinker so.
Hoffman: Fun to dream.
Franks: Oh man. It's a lot of fun to dream, but you know we have to move and we can dream for
a long time and come up with really great ideas but what I don't want to see happen is a lot of
people who are interested to put in a facility here, come in and tell us what they're going to do
without us first letting them know what it is we're looking for. At least with some general
concept, and so when they come in they're already having some understanding as to what it is
that we want and maybe some of the people that see that aren't even going to bother to come, so
we won't have to waste our time with that. I agree, you know the partnership possibilities are
just, whoever wants to get involved, I mean we can go on and on and on. Foss or Presbyterian
Homes working with seniors when they go in on Villages on the Ponds. And I mean it just could
go on and on so.
Hoffman: That should probably be part of our work outline is to list those possible partners.
Stolar: And we could ask them where have you done this before. The issue may not be, we don't
know what they are, but have you done it and show us examples of where you're done it.
Franks: With a partnership.
Stolar: With a partnership so people, and then like you said, list some of the areas. Foss Swim,
as an example. Foss Swimming or any golf facilities. If we count the performing art facility and
just ask them to say, where have you done this because yeah you're right. They're going to bring
ideas to us, and let them bring them but let's give them examples or let's introduce to them the
idea that we want to hear that from them.
Franks: Sure. I mean one of them that we even, partnerships all over the place but the Ridgeview
Medical Center right out at Waconia. They're right in the facility in Waconia providing services
right there so.
Happe: So really back to the first thing you said. A list of key components of potential partners
and a list of, and eventually a list of targeted locations for different configurations.
Franks: And then maybe some discussion about who we want to send that request to. Can we do
that? Or is that too lineal for everybody?
Happe: Perfect.
Franks: Okay. I'm willing to be flexible. Sort of. Alright, let's bring it back to the amenities.
Todd, what do we have so far?
Hoffman: So far indoor and outdoor pool. Gymnasiums. Running Track. Exercise rooms.
Daycare facilities. Performance Arts.
Franks: Okay, go ahead.
Hoffman: Facility specific to children's programming. Sized appropriately. That's what I wrote
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Yeah there was, if you can add it in as a concept that life span development be built into
the concept, i.e. it'd be good for seniors. Good for adults. Good for families. Good for children
and so.
O'Shea: Do we have cardiovascular workout room?
Hoffman: Exercise. Both cardiovascular and strength.
O'Shea: And when you say daycare, are you thinking daycare or babysitting? Is daycare?
Franks: I'm open.
O'Shea: Okay. So it could be either or?
Franks: I think so. I mean let's see what they come back with.
Stolar: Do we want any type of restaurant or any of those types of things in there? Food service.
Hoffman: Climbing wall? Restaurant.
Happe: What about batting cages usually go right in with gymnasium? Drop down batting cages.
Driving range. Anybody?
Hoffman: Golf facilities?
Franks: It's go big. I think that we can go with that as well.
Hoffman: Well you can eliminate gymnasium. You could add a field house and then you add in
your concept.
Franks: I think that's a good idea.
Hoffman: We tried to build a field house with the rec center, but it got too overwhelming for
elementary school campus.
O'Shea: So then a field house basically could contain running and walking track.
Franks: Golf facilities. Anything else?
Spizale: I think that's a good start.
Franks: Alright. That's a pretty good list. Do you believe that the meeting space, ifa facility
were constructed, is it your idea that the meeting space currently available at the rec center would
be adequate to city needs?
Hoffman: I think so because it's going to be embellished and then used primarily for meetings.
Franks: For meeting space, and at that time will then be adequate for our meeting space needs.
Happe: We added a meeting space into the library too so there's additional space there for
meetings.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: One component you are missing is the alcohol for wedding reception, graduation,
banquet facilities. And Chanhassen woefully deficient in that.
O'Shea: Community room type ofthing.
Hoffman: Yeah. Maplewood has it as one fourth of their program.
Franks: And it's a big money maker.
Hoffman: Yeah. Plymouth has it as a Creek Center, that's all it is.
Happe: Plymouth is our reference standard from the City Council?
Hoffman: Yes.
Franks: But the Creek Center, it's separate.
Happe: Okay.
Hoffman: Because they missed that component in the first go around.
Franks: Well there is nothing here really as far as banquet rental. I mean if we could get in on
that market, I think that'd be providing not only a really good service but a potential source of
revenue generation too so.
Happe: My only hesitation with that is, I don't, I haven't seen a public outcry for that type of
service or even surfaced as a topic...
Franks: You haven't been trying to plan a wedding lately.
O'Shea: No weddings or graduations in your family.
Stolar: But I also think the question is, is that a community center or is that a private enterprise
and I think we could list that as one of the potential partnerships that they might invoke. You
know I wouldn't want to go to Lifetime for a wedding. But do they have a facility where they
partnered with someone that has a banquet facility? I think that's a fair thing to add for any
partnerships that they might have had.
Hoffman: Are you familiar with Maplewood Community Center? It's a wheel. It has a center
core. It has a banquet facility in this corridor. Performing arts theater in this corridor.
Gymnasium is in this corridor and a pool facility in this corridor. You couldn't find a more...
and it's booked 2 years in advance.
Franks: We might as well put it on the list.
Hoffman: Okay. Next list.
Franks: Next list. Potential partners.
Happe: Likely targets.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
O'Shea: Lifetime. YMCA.
Spizale: YMCA.
Happe: Northwest/Flagship.
Franks: Okay, then we also have other partnership possibilities like the school districts.
Hoffman: 276 and 112.
Franks: Correct. At one time the Timberwolves were very interested in having a practice facility
out here.
Happe: Are they still fled into Northwest or is that a separate entity?
Franks: With the new owners now, I don't know.
Stolar: Would we partner with Bally's or something?
Hoffman: Sure. Who's the service provider in town right now? Chan Fitness.
Franks: Chan Fitness.
Hoffman: Foss Swim School. There's a couple of loose organizations. There's kind of the Chan
West Partnership that has been meeting with staff about we would like to build a facility out here
so we'll put them on there as a kind of an independent.
Franks: Alright.
Stolar: When you send out an RFI, do you have to do a public notice also, right? Or no?
Hoffman: Public notice that we.
Stolar: So anybody that we don't have on the list is interested in participating.
Hoffman: I don't know if we're required. We could certainly do that. Where would we put it?
I'm trying to think that people would recognize it.
Stolar: I'm trying to think for example is there some out of town organization that wants to get in
here that'd be willing to make an investment to start making a presence in a fast growing area. I
don't know if there's a list of some of the more, that are available elsewhere.
Franks: Or placing an ad in a trade publication.
Stolar: Yeah, something like that.
Franks: I say that slightly facetiously but I mean, I don't know how else we would find these
people.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Stolar: Well actually I can find, a friend of mine used to be a consultant for health clubs.
Intemationally actually, so I'll find out from her. If there's a possibility.
Hoffman: Sure. Broader reach...
Happe: There's an organization called, I'm embarrassed I'd actually know this but there's an
organization called Curves for Women I think that is one of the fastest emerging health clubs.
They're more of a mall based operator but they should at least be included on our Request for
Information because they might have a concept that we may be interested in that would be a little
more global than Curves for Women but.
Hoffman: Yeah, largest growing franchise in America.
Franks: And they're in town.
Hoffman: They're everywhere.
O'Shea: Hugely successful here.
Happe: They won't let me in but I've heard it's.
Franks: Oh no, they do have to let you in.
Happe: Oh do they?
Franks: Don't they? I think they do.
Happe: I think they do. Just being facetious.
Franks: Well anybody else?
Hoffman: Any Twin Cities people we forgot? Northwest. The soccer clubs probably.
Franks: And that's for the field house, correct?
Happe: What about Rain, Snow and Shine?
Hoffman: Sure.
Happe: For a component. Any other local or area golf organizations.
Hoffman: Soccer clubs are widely interested in field house components. Great. Alright, what's
the next list.
Happe: Next list was, and I don't know how we do this one but potential locations based on
format or concept.
Hoffman: We'll bring back you a map. We have a map on that. The start of the outline is that
we want to seek out RFI examples, and base RFI on one of those that we think is good with these
potential facilities and these potential partners. I send that up to the City Council and they'll say
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
you're doing good work and we'll finalize it at our next meeting and...back in the hands of the
council and we'll check on the wider, broader sense of who potential partners are nationwide.
Franks: Well Lifetime is definitely expanding nationwide and there might be other companies
that are interested in coming to the market as well so.
Hoffman: The local club is a national franchise. Chan Fitness.
Stolar: They're associated with Gold's Gym or one of those.
O'Shea: How about clarifying question. Is July 8th when we make a recommendation to the one
company that we want to work with?
Hoffman: No. You're making the recommendation. This is the RFI process that the council
should use to solicit input.
Stolar: ...maybe to get 2 or 3 companies to submit an RFP for very specific outline.
Hoffman: If they choose.
Franks: So you're considering our next, we'll go over this again at which meeting?
Hoffman; June 25th, unless you're uncomfortable with that, then we'd schedule a June 11th
meeting.
Franks: Alright now, will we be able to, I mean based on what we've given you now and what
you're going to be doing with it in the next month, will we be able to, do you think, finish if we
wait until June 25th?
Hoffman: Hope so.
Franks: Because we have to have it ready to go by July 8th.
Stolar: Would we be able to add some of the materials in the June 11th timeframe after the
presentation to the City Council that we can start doing some work so we'll be better, like you
said, be better prepared for June 25th. If we have it ahead of time, before June 11th. Then if we
decide we have to have a meeting, we can at least make a call then.
Hoffman: IfI do my job correctly on the 25th, you should be approving a concept and refining it.
Franks: Would it be helpful Todd for you, for us to have a work session prior to the meeting to
just go over it?
Hoffman: Timing might not be there because right about June 11th is the time that you would
think you'd just be getting into full gear.
Franks: No, I mean prior to the 25th meeting. Starting with say at 6:30.
Hoffman: Oh sure.
Franks: Have a work session meeting before our regularly scheduled commission meeting.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman; May not be necessary. Again if I've got it prepared for you, unless you want to do a
complete overhaul which you could do after the meeting if you get into the discussion that
evening and you're not satisfied with how it's looking. Take the time necessary.
Franks: Well I'm comfortable then in just really taking a look at it on the 25th if the material
comes out with as much notice as you're able to give us. Even if that, if you can, if it comes out 2
weeks before the packet, if you can. If not, we'll trust that you'll get it to us when, as soon as you
can.
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: Is that, everybody agreeable with that? Okay.
Hoffman: This RFI is going to include a variety of information on the city. Population.
Demographics. Some of those. Some of that information because when these large companies
take a look at this stuff they say well, Chanhassen. Who is that? Where is that? What's the
current population? What's the expected population? What's the median income and where are
they located in reference to all these other, and they're going to say who's out in their area so
we'll give them that information and then I think the rest of it is fairly straight forward. It's not
going to be a huge packet.
Happe: Just reading the charge statement, the last full section of the charge statement where it
says members of the Park and Rec Commission are expected to conduct background fact finding
consultations, come to the meeting prepared to discuss their discoveries. An extra meeting on
June 11th may be required to complete this charge. Are we, does this, are we taking this far
enough with what we've discussed already? Because we're not doing a whole lot of reaching out
beyond the packet parameter from what I've heard you say thus far.
Hoffman: Glenn mentioned he's going to contact somebody. If you want us to send an email or
make a phone call. Anybody that has any contacts with any of these organizations that they can
talk to folks and bring that to the next meeting, or just give me a call.
Franks: Well would there be specific type of information that you'd be looking, that would help
th
you in your process in preparing for the 25 ?
Hoffman: I don't think so. An RFI would, strategically what we want to know, what's out there.
Well who's saying what? And that doesn't have much to do with an RFI. What it has to do is
how are we strategically located to cut a deal with somebody, number one. So you know, an
RFI'S an RFI. Basic information. We're not going to change that dramatically, but this stuff`like
well, if somebody knows of some corporation, company, individual out there that can say hey,
this is you haven't thought of this. We want to know that. You haven't thought of mailing it to
this person or this corporation. They're interested in hitting a new marketplace.
Franks: But as far as doing fact finding with actual potential providers, we're not really at that
point yet until this whole RFI process is further down the road.
Hoffman: Correct.
Stolar: Outside of Plymouth and Chaska, what other places would you suggest we might just go
visit on our own?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: Maple Grove.
Hoffman: Yep, Maple Grove with Northwest. In the profession the word is that Maple Grove
got about the sweetest deal of all through Northwest. And then Lifetime is Champlin, Savage.
Savage is under construction. If you saw the little news clipping about Savage. What they've got
to do is they, oh kind of a say debate about the fees. How much are we going to charge and
boom, the fees are what seem relatively too high for the citizens and so the council's concerned
about that. These deals weren't made before you know you say here's the cash. Let's talk about
what the fees are going to be so those are some management issues that were made along the line.
Stolar: Is that something we want to ask in the RFI what they would expect the fees to be?
Hoffman: I don't think an RFI would get down to that scope. I don't think.
Stolar: Or their experience in how much they've charged for these in there. If they put them in
the fees in general. It's like if we ask for what they've already done, they can just tell us the facts
there.
Hoffman: Yeah, an aquatic center, you can ask for that. They might be reluctant to give it.
Franks: You know one of the things along with that, if we could is, do they have provisions or
experience in dealing with economically disadvantaged people in the community? I know like in
Plymouth that was one of the things that was done through Lifetime was making the place
available to everybody.
Hoffman: Maplewood is a great facility. Shoreview is a great facility. Over the, those are the
great ones. Eagan is going to build one. Where else are they out there? Champlin's going to
build one.
Franks: If you want to see a nice water park, St. Louis Park. Outdoor water park.
Hoffman: They took 160 calls today on why they weren't open.
Stolar: Because it's warm. Who wants to go.
Stolar: I have one other challenging question for this RFI for the audiences if we do it. Do we
send an RFI to some of these cities asking them what they would consider to be a partnership
with us to allow us to use it, or are they just overbooked and it wouldn't be worthwhile to do that?
Hoffman: Well, we've had the conversation with Chaska. They're the likely partner in that type
of, and I don't think this is the platform for that. Unless we want to send Chaska an RFI and say,
how do you want to partner with the City of Chanhassen?
Franks: Wow.
Stolar: Why wouldn't we want to partner?
Hoffman: One of the identity things, and that's one of the reasons that people want a Chanhassen
Community Center is for the identity of having something that is our own. Eden Prairie's looking
at a water park and so, an outdoor water park. If we build one in Chanhassen and Eden Prairie,
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
not a very good marketing so it's kind of like, you build it for what do you want to provide for
your own residents and I see the Chaska deal as a last option. So if the city runs out of land,
never builds a community center and we still, all of our residents are...
Stolar: ... one of the things we were thinking about with the outdoor pool or water park was a
question of whether we put out a bid for them to expand their facilities and allow our people to be
regular members as a cheaper altemative to building a facility ourselves. To leverage off what
they already have. It was really exploratory. It wasn't even an agenda item. It was an open
working session but we were talking to Edina and we were talking to St. Louis Park, and the
question was, Chan doesn't have one. Maybe partner with Chan, because the idea of having
some community identity, I still challenge the question that people support this. 9 percent
support it but if you look at the question, what would you want to spend your money on, 9
percent say a facility. 17 percent said a pool so I think that clearly is our leader. It's only
whether they said would you support a rec center that you get 63 percent. I look at the broader
question of what do you want? Only 59 percent said nothing.
Hoffman: What page is that on?
Stolar: Now not saying this is the greatest survey in the world or it's the be all end all, plus
we're starting to go back to the citizens regardless. It's on page 18, question 136. What facility's
not currently here that you would like to see here? 9 percent said they want to see a community
center.
Hoffman: 60 percent said none.
Happe: Well unfortunately our task hasn't been a discemed that.
Stolar: No, but what I'm saying is that does say that there is some hesitation and do we need to
explore options. I don't mind tiering this and saying let's look at building our own facility first.
Find out if that's a go. If not, let's look at other things because again we're going back to the
citizens regardless. We aren't choosing to do something right now. We're just going to the next
step, but it is just something to think about on our back burner is a partnership. When we're
talking about partnerships, a partnership with another city to create the capacity to allow our
people to enjoy these types of facilities.
Hoffman: You bet .... go through this process...you say alright well, we're going to build this in
Eden Prairie. Or we're going to add onto the Chaska Center or we're going to do something else.
Franks: I really don't see this as an either or type of approach, and that's really, that's the
question that I've had in my mind too really. The idea is to provide the amenity to the residents,
and how is it that we're going to provide it. And right now I see that we're exploring actually the
construction of some facility probably with some partner in some form here within our city. If it
looks like that's not going to work, we're going to have to look for another means to provide that
amenity. Certainly the other option that really pops up.
Stolar: And I agree it's not and or because it could be an and that we build it here and invite Eden
Prairie to invest in it with us and expand our facility so it can accommodate them, as an example.
So as long as we understand that that might be an option to help leverage some of the base costs.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Happe: I also think Glenn, I don't know, I understand what you're saying. I'm just, we could
pick this survey apart if it was to a level that goes beyond what we need to do with it but on page
19 you have 62 percent of the residents, I'm sorry.
Stolar: It's 65 percent support a community center.
Happe: 65 percent supporting a community center. It's not saying.
Stolar: Well again, without getting too far into it, I know survey design. This is not a very well
designed survey because it doesn't correlate the questions to provide you with some fundamental
understanding or the behaviorals or the attitudes that these people have. You're asking them a
very straight question, and you're not correlating them to say does this relate to each other, or are
these conflicting questions which right now I look at and I say they're conflicting questions. But
I understand, I'm taking us off`track and I apologize.
Franks: Well our job is really going to be, is really requesting the information and like you say
Glenn, we're going to bring it back to the council and to the residents and at that point I think we
can get beyond what's being asked in this survey and with some more solid information really
ascertain where the community wants us to go, where the council wants to go and where people
really want to put their dollars. But we need to keep all those options open but, and move
forward with the process that we've been charged to from the City Council.
Hoffman: And I'm ready to go.
Franks: And you're ready to go?
Hoffman: All the direction I need.
Franks: We'll look forward to getting that information as soon as possible and really dealing with
it in depth on the 25th. Are there any other items you think Todd that are coming up on that
agenda? I'm wondering if we can't just be careful to leave ample time for us to be able to discuss
this issue without lots of other items.
Hoffman: If this seems to be a problem, I'll schedule accordingly.
Franks: Alright. Now the other heavy hitter is the 2003 Park and Trail acquisition and the CIP.
INITIATE 2003 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PRO3ECT, CIP.
Hoffman: Chair Franks, members of the commission. Traditionally what has been most effective
with this is to go through the CIP page by page and start to take a look at park by park for the 5
years and tonight we're not going to finalize it but just to start to get some general position
statements from commissioners because it's a totally new group of commissioners and we'll have
totally different viewpoints on a 5 year CIP than the people who generated that document. So
you have a copy of that. I'm just going to allow.
Happe: Did you bring an extra copy Todd? I have mine out in the car.., go get it real quick.
Hoffman: Allow Chair Franks to run through that and start...
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: So what we're looking to do is just really go park by park and see what it is that we'd
like to do. You'll take that.
Hoffman: Did anyone else need a copy? ...CIP process, it's just as important you consider what
you would want to eliminate, or take away or what you would want to add in based on perceived
importance and priorities. We'll continue to work on this in June, and July, and then after your
July meeting send a recommendation to the City Council on both a 2003 CIP and an updated 5
year CIP. And most likely at some point in July or August we will sit down with the council face
to face and talk about that document. It's one of the meetings that council would like to go ahead
and conduct with the commission. Park master plan, our general guideline and that's included
under the cover memo on item number 3. These master plans guide the conversation. In the
master plan, these are the amenities that are completed to date. These are amenities that are left.
Half the people have been coming to the commission, have your neighbors been talking to you?
Have you heard word on the streets that our community is in need of this kind of facility at this
park location? That's how the conversation starts in many cases. And then there's some facilities
listed on each master plan that will probably never be built, and in fact be removed from the
master plan as these are refined over time. Or updated. Bandimere for example includes a tennis
court and a basketball court. They've been in a very poor location. Not adjacent to parking and
to expect people to park in those parking lots and make their way back to that tennis court,
basketball court is just not a very real expectation. People like to park and get to the facility and
have a very convenient location. So that was not a priority. There were however at the public
hearings for the Bandimere Community Park master plan, some neighbors that were highly in
favor of that facility, a tennis court in the park. Generally I think you can say that the
community's satisfied with the mix of facilities they see. They always see something better in
another community. These great big, extravagant playgrounds that you see at some of the
regional or larger city parks, we don't have one of those and so many of our residents with
younger children, or many of our parents who participate in child care leave the community to go
somewhere else to find that type of facility. Where would you put that? Lake Susan. Lake Ann.
One of the parks, community parks when you go ahead and redevelop a playground site. So
feature or signature type of facility that really give you a name in a community. Recently we've
been incorporating these neighborhood trail connectors through neighborhood parks. People love
them. One up at North Lotus. One you've probably been on when you walk through the park,
and so it allows a broader use of an already existing facility and brings more appreciation from
the local community. If you want to flip through until you find a cover page that says park and
trail improvements.
Happe: Is that page 617
Hoffman: 13, 14, yep, and then 61. We talked about this a little bit at the work session.
Franks: Now we're first going, I'm on page 61. Is that where everybody else is at? Alright.
Starting with 2002. Todd, are any of those projects completed yet?
Hoffman: Skate park project, it was not...but those improvements are done. Trash receptacles are
done. Some of it, a portion of the permanent park benches and tables budget has been spent, and
that's it. The other ones that are programmed, the trail from Bandimere Park to Chan Hills is
programmed. The trail from Highway 101 north is programmed. Marsh Trail Glen trail
connector is currently in wetland permitting and can hopefully be completed by fall. Tree
plantings we always complete in the fall because then we don't have to water them all summer
long. And a trail connector, Highway 5 at Riley Creek. A trail connector Highway 5 at Bluff
Creek are both, they're included in one project with the $250,000 on top and the budget on that
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
has come down so you won't see that level of expenditure. And then City Center Commons will
most likely occur in 2003 so that will actually move out of 2002.
Stolar: Did the extra money they called for last night, is that part of this or that's extra?
Hoffman: It's above and beyond this. It's unknown where that allocation will come from at this
time.
Stolar: Okay, is that something we should be aware of for this?
Hoffman; I'm hopeful that it will come from a general funding source, park dedication. I think a
$200,000 allocation is a significant share for park dedication in that project.
Franks: Okay. So most of the stuff`in 2002 is either done or in the works. Okay, so we're really
moving on then to 2003. The improvements that we're looking at in 2003 at Bandimere
Community Park are what Todd? That $25,000.
Hoffman: What's the page and we'll go through them one by one. Silo restoration.
Franks: That's what it is.
Hoffman: So remember on this timeline you can X out 202 and you can add in 207. And we
need to program from 203 to 207. 5 year CIP. So at Bandimere, 203 has a silo restoration which
is the existing park silo .... just like it was off the farm. It's thought that it should be kept as a
landmark of rural Chanhassen and it needs updating and maintenance. And then the other project
there is $40,000 for Phase II play equipment at Bandimere in 2004. And then if you cross
reference this with the plans that, go ahead and open up the master plan for Bandimere Park, you
see that the other things that are not included are the restroom with a shelter with arbor. A
concession space. Hard court play areas. Tennis court, basketball court, picnic shelter, rest stops.
All those items which I think you see in a mature park system but probably at this time in our
development stage don't have the financial resources to tackle in the budget so they don't still get
on the radar. That's what the project CIP's for is to start putting things out there. Priorities onto
the radar screen in those later years.
Happe: How can we discem what Phase II play equipment, what components that is on this
master plan?
Hoffman: You don't. It's just.
Happe: Okay, it's just a generic amount of money that's allocated.
Hoffman: It's an addition to the playground. Again general thought is that the Bandimere
playground has been highly successful. Let's continue adding to it. We only accommodate one
age group now. Let's add on for an additional, probably younger age and compliment what is
there.
Happe: As an additional rookie question, what is the amount $40,000 instead of 50 or 30? Is 40
an arbitrary dollar amount that was assigned to this in the budget?
Hoffman: Yes. Based on purchasing playground, $40,000 is about base level to build a
reasonable phase of equipment. If you want to get more elaborate then you go up from there.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Happe: And is a silo restoration something that would need to be completed in 2003 or would be
nice to be completed in 2003?
Hoffman: We have no safety concems with it. It doesn't need to be completed.
Franks: What exactly are we looking at to do for the restoration?
Hoffman: Going in and closing up all the entrances on the silo and painting it, probably with a
Chanhassen logo and something that says Bandimere Park. Bandimere Community Park.
Franks: But there's no safety concems regarding the silo? Okay. Any other comments about
Bandimere Park? Anything?
Spizale: $25,000 sounds like a lot of money to restore some silos.
Happe: One silo.
Franks: One silo.
Spizale: Park money. It just seems like better spent on playground equipment.
Hoffman: You could probably spend more on the silo, frankly. Your best example of this is the
one on 41 in Chaska that says Jonathan.
Spizale: It sounds like a high expenditure to me for a silo.
Happe: ...question. If you flip flop the order of the 2003-2004 so you get the bang for the buck
out of the continued growth of the park itself, which you said the spending, the per capita
spending has been strong, maybe we just flip flop that order. If the silo doesn't need to be done
in 2003, maybe we put the emphasis on improving the park in 2003. We can leave the silo out
there as a project we'd like to get to but it doesn't necessarily need to be done in this coming
fiscal year.
Franks: That's good. When we look at the bigger picture though we're looking at in 2003 in City
Center Park, about $275,000 to go ahead with the construction of the warming house park shelter.
So you know if we take what is it, 25 but then 40, then we really have to take a look at what
we're going to do with that as well so. I can see the wisdom in all that. If that's the kind of route
we want to go. 2003 is a big year, along with 2002 if the 101 trail goes in because what we're
looking at with the road and trail construction at Lake Ann.
Stolar: That's something that we were going to talk about.
Franks: Right. So considering how that goes really.
Happe: Does it make more sense, Rod you've been through this process before. Does it make
sense to look, to process through all of this and then come back with conclusions after we've seen
all the rest of the expenditures? What's the most methodical way?
Franks: I think so.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: We're not going to make any crucial decisions tonight. It's too much ofa leaming
curve so Rod, ifI can just cruise through these. If you'd like me to do that and just so we can
have a conversation.
Franks: You know let's go through each of the items for the parks and then you'll have an idea
about what everything is, and then we can flip back through the whole list. We'll know what
you're all talking about. If there's anything else that you see when you look at the master plans
for the park that you're wondering why it's not in, then we'll put those in and talk about those.
Todd, can we approach it that way?
Hoffman: Absolutely.
Franks: Alright, let's do that. And then so let's move on then to the City Center Park.
Hoffman: City Center Park has $275,000 in 2003 for a park shelter building, which would be an
equivalent of a shelter building that you see at the recreation center. Brick and mortar structure.
Warming house. Concessions. Outdoor area for picnicking. And the master plan for City Center
Park is 2 pages down. You can see the location for that. In flipping through you'll see City
Center Park master plan... Located just directly behind City Hall, a warming house, shelter
building. In the northwest corner of the hockey rinks. And again this serves as a focal point for
the entire park so parents are leaving and dropping off children. Sports organizations are
conducting toumaments. This is the headquarters and it's a summer where playground programs
have their headquarters during the summer. In 2004 City Center identifies $100,000 for a senior
garden amenity which is in the far northwest corner of the park and that would be in collaboration
with the senior center and the senior housing. It would be more of a sculptured garden type
setting. That was a plan of the City Council when they redeveloped City Center. Was not just to
make it for ballfield kids. Everybody's paying for this park. Let's get everybody involved in it,
and so a senior garden or what you call a community garden with floral displays and arbors and
those type of things. So that's it for City Center.
Stolar: Where is that garden again?
Hoffman: It's not shown here.
Stolar: Where it says open green space? In that area.
Hoffman: Yep, open green space and picnic shelter. Up in that corner.
Stolar: For that type of thing are we going to have to, does it include seating at all? Okay.
O'Shea: Did you get feedback from the seniors on that?
Hoffman: Yep.
O'Shea: And that's what they.
Hoffman: We've got a great plan upstairs.
Stolar: How does that coincide with the City Center Commons though, over here that's also
going to have a similar feel?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Probably puts it farther down the line. Let's see how this one does. Why would you
start another project behind City Hall? So I think it finishes it off[ Curry Farms Park has $40,000
in 2004, and that's one of those wood playground structures that's beginning to show it's age.
You see a lot of...ofthese structures. They get out of kilter and we do quite a bit of maintenance.
You get splintering and parents hate it when their kids get splinters. They start screaming and...
so that's 2004. Kerber Pond Park has $10,000 for signage, for interpretative signage. Kerber
Pond is just right down here by Kerber Boulevard. It's a nature...let's provide some
interpretation there on what people are seeing as they take that walk around the pond. Plants.
Geography. Geology. Wildlife. Those type of things. Improvements at Meadow Green.
$50,000 in playground equipment. It's probably the highest priority that we have in the city.
Meadow Green is a neighborhood park utilized as a community park due to the ballfields that are
there. We get a lot of use Monday through Friday during the summer and they have the worst
playground in the city sitting at that site. But what we are saying is we want, just because it's not
the best playground in the city we're not just going to throw it away. We're going to maximize
it's utility. Do minimum improvements on it and then at it's life's end we'll take it out and
replace it. It's getting near to that point.
Stolar: You said this is the oldest one?
Hoffman: Oldest one. And there's 10 of those and generally we'll be bringing them,
recommending that 2 of those are replaced annually in your program. Round house renovation.
Roundhouse Park, there's $30,000 in there for 2004. Building a neighborhood playground and
Phase II of the renovation so you were out there this evening and witnessed first hand Phase I.
This says that there's some commitment in the near future to add that second phase of playground
equipment at that location.
Happe: So that's not specific to the round house that's...
Hoffman: Yep. Money for the round house has been...does not show up any longer in the CIP
but it's there for the council to use... Remember that only the parks that have something listed in
the projects CIP are in here so when we get to go back through this at future meetings or a work
session, we're going to look at every park and if you want to add something, we can add it the
CIP list. There's a trail listed which was taken off~ Whitetail Ridge Court to Lake Lucy Lane.
So it's no longer an item in the CIP. Anybody familiar with where Lake Lucy Road. Lake Lucy
Road heads west, and you take a right at the Y like you're going to go into Pheasant Hills and
then the road almost dead ends and you have to take a sharp right into Pheasant Hills. This is a
trail connector from that point forward over to Galpin Boulevard, which some people in the
neighborhood. Some did not want. Commission looked at it. Thought it was a good suggestion
and put some money in. The council last year took it out... So we'll look at that. When we sit
down with some more time I'll show you where that is. If you get a chance to go out there and
look at it. These little trail connectors are great to make local trips so people go out for a walk or
a run and they want to get back, but generally neighbors hate them going in so they're difficult to
put in. Nice amenities. Where, we have a road easement here. It's not just a trail easement. We
have a full road easement so you've got plenty of room to work in, and at one point we got pretty
close to making it happen and it just hasn't happened over time. Bandimere Park to Chan Hills.
The pending project. Page 69. Page 70. Pending project, the 101 trail. Page 71, trail and road
reconstruction at Lake Ann Park currently has $485,000 allocated in 2003. You need to make a
decision if you want to do that. To try to take a look at altematives, you may have seen portions
of the road tonight. We've asked for a price, an overlay. A mat overlay so they take a fiber mat.
Overlay that and then take asphalt on top of that. And you receive another 10 to 15 years of use
and drop the cost down to about $150,000 versus 485 so. 485 is complete reconstruction. Take
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
out everything that you see there in the old part of Lake Ann. Curb and gutters. Storm water
ponding. Brand new road section. Or you just continue to patch it with an overlay.
Happe: Todd, ifI can hang you up on this one for just a minute. Can you just re-explain for us
again why this particular fund is being used to pay for streets and parking lots. Would that
traditionally come out of the general fund or would that traditionally come out of Park and Rec?
Hoffman: ...20 years and served all the citizens. I do not think it meets the intent of park
dedication. Why is it taken out of there? Because it's very easy to do. It's a dedicated fund. Got
a million 7 in there. Let's take it out of the park dedication.
Happe: So in theory we're going to take funds that have been raised to build new amenities and
new parks, and we're going to reallocate those funds to repair, restore or rebuild a 20 year old
road and a parking lot to go with it?
Hoffman: That's what this document says, yes. I don't support that.
Stolar: How was the road originally funded? Was it the park dedication to build the park?
Hoffman: There was no park dedication when Lake Ann was built. It was built with general
fund allocation.
Stolar: Do bond funds for parks and trails also go into this fund? Not just the dedication fees but.
Hoffman: It'd be held separately. So the last park fund held in a separate account specifically for
those improvements identified in the park fund. And so, and then operations and maintenance is
a general liability. General tax liability and then the city general CIP general tax liability and
then we have park dedication.
Happe: Todd, have we historically been asked to bear the burden of paying for roads and parking
lots on revamps like this?
Franks: Not since I've been on the commission but this idea of rebuilding the Lake Ann road has
been around for a while. It's not anything that's coming up new. It hasn't been resolved yet I
don't think so. My feeling is, is even, Todd you threw out doing an overlay for $150,000 and that
sounds like wow, we can side step for the 485 if we go for the 150. My feeling on that is, the
precedent that that sets I think is dangerous. In that what we're saying, although we think maybe
we're getting by less expensively, we're still saying that it's okay to do what I consider
engineering improvements on existing facilities with park dedication bonds and I think that that's
not a precedent that we as a commission want to begin to endorse because it's one that future
commissions will have to face again and again and again. Is my feeling on this.
Happe: So what would you, in your opinion, what would your recommendation be for dealing
with that $485,000 looming bill?
Franks: I think that this issue here is a fantastic issue to bring up at one of the work sessions that
we'll be having with the City Council. One of the things to remember is that although we are
doing this budgeting, this is not our money. This is the council's money that is, this is real
confusing now. So we're not spending this money. We're making some recommendations about
how these funds should be allocated into what projects. The problem for us is, and you'll begin
to feel it too I think is you start to feel some ownership over this and the projects and the things
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
and so you know, when these disagreements arise, we have to remember what our job is. But I
think right now our job is to do some education about how we see this to the council.
Hoffman: And then just to make a recommendation.
Franks: And to make a recommendation.
Hoffman: If you feel that this, then you would say, this project will not be a part of the CIP.
Stolar: How did it get here in the first place though? Was this something the City Council said
put it in or something we just did to highlight the need?
Hoffman: It was something that...the previous city manager put in, and I continue to push the
question that we need the Lake Ann road to be reconstructed and he said fine, I'll put it in park
dedication.
Happe: So if I'm understanding correctly, if it's in the CIP, it's our recommendation?
Franks: We will approve the CIP and then that will go forward to the council.
Stolar: Is there any statutory rule about what can and cannot come out of here? At all.
Hoffman: Yes but they're pretty vague. As long as you're building park facilities and not
spending.
Stolar: On operations, yeah. But whatabout maintenance? Like trails for example. Ifatrail
buckles and it needs to be repaired, it shouldn't come from this fund.
Hoffman: Again statute wise you're not going to find the differentiation.
Stolar: Historically what have you done?
Hoffman: Historically what have we done? Historically we have not invested park dedication in
maintenance and as far as we will continue to send that message that redevelopment should come
out of the redevelopment fund and general obligation fund. Redevelopment shouldn't come out
of money that was placed in a fund to build new facilities to meet the needs of existing, or future,
people that have just moved here. Can you imagine 20 years from now the list of redevelopments
and if you garner every new development dollar and put it into redevelopments, you're not
meeting the intent of legislation.
Stolar: And that's what, a couple of things relate to this. One, in Eden Prairie they did do a
bonding fund just to do replacement or repair and threw it all in the CIP fund so that was one of
our revenue sources along with park dedication. They co-mingled them, because they were a
maturing city, right to your point. 10 years. 15 years from now that's where the shift comes so
they just co-mingled it, but still some development. The other question is, are we going to have
any flack then if we say something against this yet we're going to replace or repair some park
play areas with the same fund? That, I just want to make sure because I agree with Rod. I don't
want it in here, but I want to make sure we make our case well.
Hoffman: That's another question that we have, I've asked for a replacement fund, just like we
replace vehicles under replacement.., and it's pick your battles.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Stolar: I understand. Thanks. We can put this money as our replacement funds for play areas.
Franks: There's a larger philosophical issue too here is that as we expand out and maintenance
becomes the larger expenditure than development, how is it that that's going to be funded?
Especially since those new revenue dollars into the park dedication account aren't coming in.
And I think we're seeing that now where our system is getting big. Maintenance is getting bigger
and bigger and bigger.
Happe: Probably a pretty clear distinction we can draw though between replacing a broken swing
seat and revamping and restoring road, a park road. Maybe that will be where the difference...
Stolar: But in the broader issue, when is the year, and we'll get to some of that but when is the
year we think we need to replenish the funds because we aren't going to have dedication fees to
start replacing these things that were built starting in the 80's.
Hoffman: There's no lack of things to spending money on. $800,000 on 101 trails. $200,000 or
more up here. Park buildings so if we can start reaching a consensus with all the decision makers
that replacement means minor replacement from the general obligation fund. That's just going to
help everybody in the future. How many times have we told robbing Peter to pay Paul? Okay,
onto the Marsh Glen trail connector. That's a scheduled project. Tree plantings, scheduled
project. 74, park shelter, Bandimere Community Park. Scheduled out $175,000 in 2005 which
would most likely would not be putting the shelter necessary at that time. Justification,
Bandimere Park is the second busiest park in town. It hosts thousand of users each year.
Provision of service is that a shelter will greatly increase the level of satisfaction of park users.
Page 75. Half court basketball at Bandimere Heights Park, $15,000. A small item on the master
plan. Skate park ramp. Again in 2003 I think we need to add, move this $75,000 and spend it on
a natural ramp instead of on other improvements that we thought would justify in time.
Maintenance equipment, trash receptacles. We have one more year. They're replacing all the
ugly blue barrels with attractive trash receptacles... Permanent park benches and tables are an
ongoing improvement that we're putting in our park system as it matures. Trail connector,
Highway 5 at Riley Creek is a scheduled project. And the trail connector, Highway 5 at Bluff
Creek...
Franks: After the scheduled projects in year 2002 are completed, what kind of a fund balance are
we looking at?
Stolar: Roughly 1.275. Something like that.
Hoffman: There's a million 6 thousand scheduled to be invested. That most likely would come
down to about a million 3. $400,000 approximately. Plus revenues for 2003. So that gives you a
swing anywhere from 3 to 6.
Happe: What are projected revenues Todd?
Hoffman: No. Projected revenues are probably about $250,000 to $300,000. Maybe a little
higher. Projected expenditures, $1.3 to $1.6. Current balance of $1.7. So you're taking it down
to anywhere from $100,000 to $300,000 and adding on anywhere from $250,000 to $300,000.
Happe: Does that include removing City Center Commons out into 2003? Okay, I gotch ya.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: So 2002 is a huge year for park dedication.
Stolar: If what you're saying is true, the 865 listed here can't be spent in 2003, right?
Hoffman: Correct. Unless...are designated .... this is the time for discussion with the City
Council on how this community wants to move forward with capital budgeting for parks.
Franks: Right. There'sjustcertainrealitiesthatwehavetoface. That these type oflarge
reconstruction or maintenance expenditures are going to be tagged onto the park dedication fund,
we are going to be unable to meet needs that the community's expressing like their playground
equipment and their trail connections. We're just not going to be able to do it. And those are the
funds that will be necessary to complete those projects. This is a good time for that discussion.
Stolar: When we actually do this final thing, could you have that rev, projected revenue line,
balance line on a summary sheet?
Franks: After going through the overview, are there any other thoughts about the projects or any
projects that you've noticed that you'd like to see that you didn't see?
Happe: Talking just 2003 or extending out beyond that?
Franks: Well we can take it in 2003 and move out forward.
O'Shea: I think we need to look at the skate park and spend more money there.
Franks: In 2003?
O'Shea: Yes.
Franks: For equipment purchase.
O'Shea: For more ramps and expand it.
Franks: Well we've been doing that at about $7,500 increments. Is that amount still enough to
buy? It's not is it? About what dollar amount to add onto the skate park?
Hoffman: Well if you want to add a single small...that will do it. If you want to add a single
large component it's $10 to $12,000. $10,000 to $15,000. If you want to add multiple, it goes up
from there.
O'Shea: I think isn't it one of the most heavily used areas?
Hoffman: The most heavily used.
O'Shea: Is that I think we really need to look at that and making it as good as we can.
Hoffman: ...during the summer all the facilities in town are used very heavily, and so they're all
important.
Stolar: Are we for this, are we looking at just this is continual expansion of it or is it also
replacement? For the skate park.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Currently it's expansion.
Stolar: There's room to expand for the next 5 years of material, what we have there will be fine?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Stolar: Okay. And then you said there were park play areas we're going to have to replace, that
there's a list. I only saw one or two here. What other ones come up in the next 5 years between
now and 2007 that you think?
Hoffman: I'll put that together for you. There's 10 of those playgrounds out there in all. They're
scattered throughout the city, generally in the older areas of town so, Meadow Green Park, that's
a huge park. Curry Farms Park. Minnewashta Heights Park with wooden play structures. I'll
incorporate those into the list.
O'Shea: On that note, because they're aging neighborhoods? The equipment you're putting in, is
that what the neighbors want to see or are the kids older that they're not being used that much?
Hoffman: That's a good question. Neighborhoods age. But a neighborhood playground is just
one of those amenities that everybody expects every park is going to have, and so you might
change the age group on a phase. Let's say okay, we're going to redevelop and you get together
with the neighborhood and they say well all our kids are older currently. Let's put Phase I in for
the older kids. And then Phase II...turnover. But there's not a single neighborhood park that we
have in this city that does not have a playground.
O'Shea: Right. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have something for them, but is a kiddie what
they need for the age that they think they're going to use that park for?
Hoffman: Yeah, that's an individual decision at the time. Every time we put a playground in a
neighborhood, we bring them in. They generally pick it.
O'Shea: Okay.
Stolar: Do you want discussion on the...construction at Lake Ann?
Franks: I think...getting this wrong is what I'm hearing is there's some, there's still some things
we need to pick up about that but ifI can pull this back too. What I'm hearing is, there's some
consensus here that this commission is also viewing this expenditure as one that may not be
appropriate to come under the park dedication fees.
Happe: It's absolutely not consistent with park dedication fees and their intended purpose.
Stolar: And not fiscally feasible given our current funding.
Franks: And I think just having that understanding that that's the current consensus of the
commission with the information that we have now is enough really on that issue for now.
Happe: But one of the things we do want to take a look at for Lake Ann Park, that we've talked
about tonight is within that picnic and park area. If there's potential to do, what are we calling a
shelter.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Franks: A shelter.
Happe: So with the only expenditure listed for Lake Ann Park for the next 5 years being to fix
their road, we probably, there's some great space there that could be enhanced with residents
requests for different amenities for picnics and corporate functions, etc.
Franks: Well I'm just looking at the overall 2002 through 2006. Some of the things that I'm
saying just throwing out is, you know if the silo right now is not a safety concem, I think that's
one of those nice things that will polish the park but I think that we can maybe use those dollars
better in some other places right now and that be one of those kind of polishing up amenities we
might do later. Also I feel kind of the same way about the interpretative signage around Kerber
Pond right now. That's nice but I think we really have to start looking hard at creating the hard
amenities instead of filling out the soft amenities so to speak.
Stolar: On that one, is there some way we can get someone to possibly do that as a project?
Look at ways for Arboretum or a college group, come out and view it so that we don't have to
spend?
Happe: It would be a good Eagle Scout project.
Hoffman: Possibility. There's not a real direct tie between Kerber Pond Park and any
organization that would be interested in doing that. If you have a closer tie, if it was adjacent to a
university. The Arboretum probably believes that they do enough for the community in their
current establishment.
Happe: The up side is, I mean it's, there's a percent of the overall budget is what, 6-7 percent of
the projected revenue so the dollars are up significant, if it's a project we want to go forward
with, it's certainly affordable. But it may be a logical place to cut.
Franks: Right. Well I'm not necessarily looking for cuts. Pushing them out, right. Right. You
know we're looking at potentially doing projects that are going to draw the balance of the park
fund down pretty low, and so we really want to look at how we're really spending those dollars.
In the past the commissions have traditionally been pretty frugal in attempting to save money and
build up reserves. I think at least in the short term the days of having reserves are gone and we
have to think about how we're going to use the dollars that we have at the time most effectively.
Happe: As part of the impact, or part of the desire to have been to use the dollars that we have
available to get continuous improvement across the boards in our parks or to focus that money in
a selected projects? Is one of our objectives brought to be able to impact the multiple parks or is
the objective to funnel that money into the major projects?
Franks: Which money are you talking about?
Happe: The park and rec dedication.
Franks: You know it's really to do both. We need to keep developing the existing parks that we
have in a way that's consistent with the master plans and appropriate for the residents that are
around the neighborhood parks, and then also look at the bigger questions too about community
parks, land acquisition, being involved in something like the community center so the larger
scale. I really see it as both.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: And generally it was an orderly progression. We were in a huge growth spurt for
about a dozen years, and we just couldn't get around to everybody's project that year and the
commission said you know, just wait until next year. We'll get to your park. We'll get to your
playground. There were neighborhoods that were just about fully developed and we had physical
space for the playground in the park but it just wasn't there yet and so then the allocation was
made and so there was almost this orderly fashion. You know you'll be next and that's what
occurred and that's, the growth has slowed down. What I'm hearing is that we want to separate
and as long as we make that clear separation and are bringing that, when we have a replacement
or a maintenance project, it's going to go on a different list. It's going to go over here on a list
that says these projects are maintenance and replacement and they should, they need to be funded
from somewhere else. These projects are development improvement and that's what the
commission is going to focus on as we have a park system that we want to continue to develop
and improve. We have a funding source. Here's our recommendation. Our recommendation
over here is to take these, find different allocations so these projects can move forward and then
it's a policy decision of the City Council. As long as you have that clear distinction I think then
they know where you're coming from and we don't continue to mix these things as we go
through this growth transition.
Franks: Which I think has happened in the past. We have mixed. What Glenn was mentioning
earlier I think that developing a priorities ranking for these replacement things and so it's not just
us necessarily sitting around thinking well, let's replace another swing this year. But really based
on certain criteria, it's at the top of the list.
Stolar: I can look and see. I had my Eden Prairie one. We had certain things. Safety was always
number one. That always rocketed to the top. So playground where kids are getting splinters.
Franks: But I really do see a difference between adding a Phase II play equipment versus
replacing existing equipment. And I think we do run into the same problem with, if we start
using the same funding source, or recommending that the same funding source be used for
replacing old equipment, we're going against the stand we're making on Lake Ann Road just like
you were saying Dave so. We're there Todd.
Happe: One additional question. Do we have an opportunity to put together a list of projects?
Typically the Lion's club or even an Eagle Scout project, etc. I mean there's a certain amount of
these projects that would be great to have available as community projects should they, should a
Lion's Club or Kiwana's Club or any one of our various civic or service organizations. Should
we be more vocal or more visible in terms of what those opportunities might be? Not necessarily
soliciting you know service projects, but at least have identified what some of those major
initiatives could be, should a.
Franks: I don't want to be a downer on that because in theory it's a great idea and I know I've sat
up here and I've said that too, and I've watched the great ideas come out and the ability for our
local service clubs or organizations to really come through on really anything big, significant
project I think is pretty limited now. And so it begins to be kind of a frustration for everybody.
Hoffman: Dave, as a staff`member I'm well connected with each of those clubs and they all have
made commitments to the community and some have met those commitments. The Lion's are
still meeting a commitment on the Lake Ann ballfield. They had $100,000 commitment. They
lost the charitable gambling and so they're continuing to pay back in chunks of $3,000 and
$4,000 and $5,000 of that commitment and they're over halfway there. So and the Rotary, I'm a
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
member of the Rotary and those people are talking about where can they get some.., and then the
chamber, that's about it.
Stolar: One other question on this part of your plan. We know that the trails are the big amounts.
Do we, it may be too late for all that that's going on this year, but do we want to isolate trails that
are new trails connecting new neighborhoods and pay park dedication fees versus trails going in
towards the master plan of an old neighborhood. Again park dedication fees, you and I talked
about this last night. They don't cover what we're spending on the 101 trail. And they got parks
besides that. I mean between 101 trail, just trails this year, that's 1.2, 1.3 million dollars, just for
trails out of our $1.7 budget. I'm not saying right or wrong. I'm just saying clearly identifying
them because then you can distinguish, and I'm more worried about beyond here. In the
$250,000 we get next year, making sure that we identify. That money that's revenue is to help
connect trails for those new neighborhoods and really focusing on that versus building a trail on
my neighborhood which we're already there. Whether we have a trail or not, we paid our park
dedication fees. We got our park. These new neighborhoods, we can put a trail there that
connects them to the rest of the city. I don't know if that's another divider we'd want to put in.
Hoffman: Well we always try to put those trails in with road construction so we don't end up
paying for them.
Stolar: Okay. So that's how you cover them, okay.
Hoffman: In new developments we want the trails going in right away.
Stolar: Right away, okay.
Hoffman: We played catch-up in the '97 referendum with the 7 miles of trails that went in
existing neighborhoods and we didn't have park dedication. We didn't have a million 5 to put
into trail developments so we put it out to a referendum.
Franks: That's a good point because those big trails on Galpin and Powers and all those were
done with the referendum.
Stolar: Okay. That's why I was looking, there was a 2.9 or 4.9 referendum.
Franks: We're really looking at two projects that are listed in 2002 and 2003 that have some
philosophical issues attached to them and just the points that you're bringing up.
Hoffman: Chair Franks, I'm prepared to clean up this budget proposal for the commission, on
behalf of the commission and bring it back to you at your next meeting. If you have additional
comments or other commissioners have additional comments, I'd be glad to take those but I think
we just need to move forward and clean it up and hearing the discussion on what you'd like to see
completed.
Franks: At what meeting do you anticipate this coming back to us?
Hoffman: June. And then July.
Franks: Big meeting. Alright. That wraps up new business.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS:
SUMMER ACTIVITIES.
LAKE ANN PARK OPERATIONS.
Hoen: Thank you Chair Franks, members of the commission. The following list is a list of
programs I'm offering for this summer. The list includes some previously, programs we've had
in previous years. Some new programs this year. Some of the new programs I'm offering this
year include field trips to Bunker Hills Wake Pool, Minnesota Lynx basketball game. Camp
Caterpillar is a preschool program that we're doing in cooperation with Science Explorers. Some
of the youth programs that are new this year are Emergency Room and Science Blast Off which is
also that we do in cooperation with the Science Explorers. Introduction to Lacrosse Camp.
Advanced Lacrosse Skills Camp for Boys and Girls. As well as Robichon's Ramp which is the
inline skating classes up here at the skate park. And Fishing for Fun. It's a program that teaches
kids some fishing techniques. Catch and release and teaches them to respect nature. Any
questions on that?
Franks: So we're still having preschool programs? I just had to say that, sorry.
Hoffman: They've very popular. If you want to take them away, make the motion.
Franks: No. Any comments from the commission? Any questions for Corey?
Happe: Corey, is there any plans, are we doing anything different in terms of the publicity for
these events or are we on the same course of action?
Hoen: Same course. We've got fliers at the schools. We've got fliers at the Chan Rec Center.
Fliers up here at City Hall. And then obviously our Chanhassen Connection that goes out to
every Chanhassen resident.
Happe: Does the Villager do anything with...
Hoen: We do some advertising with the Villager. It's whenever they have space.
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS:
Stolar: ...the only point they came back was they wanted to know if their approach would have
any bearing on maintenance costs, long term and the answer was from the designer it was no. It
shouldn't but they asked him to still come back with any issues related to that long term
maintenance cost. The highly selective things. The types of benches. The plantings, all sorts of
different questions like that but it went very well I thought.
Franks: What were some of the things that they added in?
Stolar: The one funny thing was the transformer box. They want to look at possibly moving that
in Phase I as opposed to in the overall master plan. They want to look at that one. That's one of
those that put it as an add-in, let's figure out, or look into that but they haven't necessarily said it
has to be in Phase I. But they thought it would be easier if we're going to build the sidewalk out
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
there. Get it out of the way now. Just build the whole entranceway and not have to redo the
entranceway once you get it out in the secondary phase. Some of the, again I didn't have the list
but they had several items up through number 28 that were all landscaping items to just move 4
trees.
Hoffman: Trees, plantings, flowers, grasses, arbors, the benches. The additional seating.
Happe: They did do the arbors?
Stolar: No, I thought they pulled the arbors. The arbors I don't think were in the.
Hoffman: On the list it was $15,000 for smaller arbors.
Stolar: Smaller arbors, right. They pulled the bigger arbors out of the master plan.
Franks: Big.
Happe: Have all the commissioners seen the plan for City Center Commons? The master plan
Hoffman: Right there.
Stolar: I think it was the lighter shaded ones are the ones that were later phases and some of those
they pulled in.
Hoffman: So we have here this evening...in this location and from the discussion last night, the
tree...so even outside of where this new maple would be introduced.
Stolar: That was the other thing. They asked about that tree being removed, just to put a maple
there when it's not significantly in the way.
Hoffman: The grading is going to most likely change... We have the new library. The new court
yard area between City Hall and the library. The library drops ofl~ Parking lot. Additional
parking lot in this location. And then the main area for the City Center Commons in this location.
This is where the transformer is located and very nice...
Happe: Thanks Todd.
Hoffman: Construction to occur in 2003.
Franks: Was there any comment about the involvement of park dedication fees in funding for
this?
Stolar: No.
Franks: Okay. Thanks a lot.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Franks: Any comments?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting May 29, 2002
Hoffman: Lots of information on the school district for you... The difference in the miles, one
has a high school in Chanhassen, one does not.
Happe: The memo on the Seminary Fen.
Hoffman: The Governor vetoed the allocation for the fen as a part of the budget.
Happe: Line itemveto?
Hoffman: It was a huge effort by a wide array of government groups, non-profit groups. They
had volunteer citizen lobbyist working this one single item down at the capitol so disappointed to
see it cut.
Happe: Well one of the positives about the funding that Mr. Workman secured for 101, what did
get approved in the budget for $500,000 so.
Franks: That was too bad. Maybe next time. That's the nice thing about the legislature, there's
always another session. Alright, is there anything more on the Administrative Packet? Just one
thing I'd add in. If you're interested in seeing a very interesting tournament, June lst and 2nd
down at Lake Susan. The INT water ski and wakeboard tournament will be held down there. If
it's a nice day, walk down there. You can see how that park can be used and how the lake is used
and it's just really kind of cool. Cool toumament to see so, lst and 2nd of June.
Happe: I appreciated the park tour we took tonight. I'd like to do that as often as everybody else
is agreeable to getting out and seeing the parks so.
Hoffman: You bet.
Franks: Okay, great. Well if there's nothing more, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Spizale moved, Happe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting.
All voted in favor and the motion carried.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim