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PRC 2001 07 24CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING dULY 24, 2001 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Frank Spizale, Rod Franks, Tom Kelly and Mike Howe MEMBERS ABSENT: Dave Moes and Jay Karlovich STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Hoffman: I have probably what I would call an adjustment. I don't know if you've noticed the note on the CIP to the residents was not included in the first Villager that I sent it out for. It was included just this past Thursday. I received one e-mail which is in your packet on your desk. It included all of your phone numbers I believe, if somebody calls today, so we can discuss it but then probably table it and we'll be meeting twice in August. Is it August? Yes, we're going to go to the Waconia facility the second week so we can talk about the CIP that evening and finalize it or at our regular meeting in August. I think we should discuss it and talk about some of the issues that are raised this evening and then table it until a future agenda. Lash: Sounds good. Anyone else? VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Howe moved, Franks seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission dated June 26, 2001 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously. 2002 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (CIP). Hoffman: Thank you Chair Lash, members of the commission. The last time we talked about this I believe was in April or May. You have all the sheets in front of you. I think what is most telling is that if you add up all the items which are tentatively identified under the 5 year capital improvement program, you have a million and a half dollars. Currently our fund balance is a million 7. Obviously over those 5 years additional million dollars or so would be generated so you could bump that up. But I would characterize the existing CIP is not overly aggressive. In fact there are some large items that are simply not included so the reason I think we need to spend a good deal of time talking about these CIP programs is because it makes, you put the money to the best use and I want to make sure that we thought these things through before we make recommendations to the City Council. That is the reason that I raise these issues of trail connections. You read this evening's agenda. Before I go to the City Council and discuss with them feasibility studies which would give us an initial estimate of the cost of these connections, I want to make sure that the commission is on board and supportive of those connections. Specifically they are the two underpasses at Highway 5. People are already taking advantage of the new frontage road trail. In fact Greg..., one of our neighbors said for the first time he went to Lake Ann west on the frontage road trail to Galpin. North on Galpin and then all the way back so they're going to start using those trails, but to Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 connect the south side we have to make sure that we continue those trail connections at the creek right there at Lake Ann Park. So if you go out there today and look at the underpasses, there's a large underpass.., culvert for the frontage road and then there's a smaller underpass which is just the trail itself, not the water. The water goes under a culvert under Highway 5, and then the trail will dump out. Terminate on the south side of Highway 5 right at the state highway right-of-way. They'll say that's it city. It's your's from here. And if you can visualize where that is, there's a steep ravine in there. Wooden ravine. It heads down adjacent to Prince's property with his studio there on the one side. And then it comes out by the location called Park Road, or Park Court which is that cul-de-sac which was never developed because of poor soils and the city's HRA actually owns that property. So we are responsible for building that trail from the sidewalk on, all of you have driven Park Drive. You know the industrial street that goes from Audubon and then east to Powers. We need to connect those people down to that concrete sidewalk which is on the south side of Park Road. Expensive project and should be taken care of next year so people can start making those connections. We're going to have millions and millions of dollars worth of improvements on the north side of Highway 5 that they're going to want to get to. The next one is a much simpler connection. It's right there at the school. At Bluff`Creek Elementary/Chan Rec Center and the simpler connection, we already have that trail sitting on Bluff`Creek Park and the route is not as steep. It's not as heavily wooded and so that one will be much easier. And then the final connection, which people call me about on an intermittent basis is, they start arriving south from Southem Chanhassen and they stop at Bandimere and they go whoa. Wait a minute. I want to get to town and the trail between Chanhassen Hills and Bandimere is not complete. It's really one of the, 101 North and 101 South, those are the thru trail connectors which we should be taking a look at finishing. So those are 3 that I'd like to hear from the commission on and if you took a look at all of those projects and included them in a 2002 CIP, you're up over halfa million dollars so that would be more aggressive than most years when we dedicate about a quarter million dollars to the CIP so, we're talking about some other things already in the planning stages in your packet and then we have these items to add as well. The 101 North trail at $800,000 still remains in the CIP this year and then so I don't see that the trail will be completed or the road project even started this year or next year but, so there's those items to talk about and then traditionally we post that press release and I think you have a copy of it in here. For the public to give a call and the one individual sent an e-mail and asked for your consideration on a Chanhassen dog park and I think that's always very valuable to solicit the input of the residents to hear what they have to say as well. So with that Jan I'll let you folks talk about these things and give me some direction on what you would like me to do with the recommendations to the City Council. Lash: Okay. I tend to think it's easiest if we just go through starting with the front one. Anybody... Okay, so if we start with Bandimere Community Park. I had one question Todd and that's on play equipment Phase I. Is that being done? Hoffman: Being done right now. Lash: Okay, so we could put a check by it? Hoffman: Yep, they're out there working on it. Lash: And my other question is, and I'm probably just not remembering things but how come it was cut from $60,000 to $30,000? Hoffman: Boy oh boy. I don't recall. I know that's what we spent was the 30. Lash: Does anybody else remember? Do you remember Mike? Rod? 2 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Franks: No. Lash: Did we get donations, weren't we trying to get donations from like hockey and soccer and all those kinds of people? Hoff`man: Yeah, but that was to meet the 60 1 think. Lash: So maybe the 30 is just our's, but you think totally we only spent 30? Hoff`man: That's all we spent. That's all we had in the budget. Lash: So did we not get any donations? Hoffman: No. Remember we sent the letters out. Lash: Okay. So did we have to skimp then? I mean did we not do all the phases? Hoffman: No, we bought a $54,000 playground that was displayed at the grounds in, Turf and Ground Show in Atlanta, Georgia and for $30,000 we bought it and they shipped it up. Lash: And then did we have a Phase II slated on the plan? Hoff`man: Not in that plan, no. Lash: This would be it? Hoff`man: This is it. Independent, 6 to 12, 5 to 12 and so if we go with another one we'll have to do the younger age group. This one is on concrete with a concrete curb with the pour in place pad. 3 story enclosed. You know with the enclosures do you'll see it, it will be going up out there over the next couple of weeks. It will be a nice playground. Franks: Are you suggesting that Phase II play equipment is not necessary? Hoff`man: It would be a nice addition but it will be independent of this. It's not like we're adding onto the space. It would be independent so you could pick a ship. Some of that companion stuff`which is popular nowadays so. Lash: So is it something we should of penciling in 5 years down the road or? Hoff`man: Little bit less than that. Franks: It's already in. Howe: 2004. $40,000. Lash: Oh! Okay, didn't see it. I just didn't see it. And then how are you feeling on the $25,000? Do you think that's adequate for this silo restoration? Hoff`man: I hope so. With the pace of restoration projects, you never know. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Spizale: What is the silo? Lash: The original silo that was on the site. We didn't take it down. Franks: It's still up there. Kind of right up on the comer. Kelly: What would they restore them for? Lash: Just kind of as a landmark. Remember that the farm was there. If you think the one that's on 41 and Hundtmark, we don't want to copy that but something along those lines. Hoffman: It's probably worth talking about the hard court play area. $15,000 would only buy you a half court basketball and the area which was slated for that was, if you parked up by the baseball fields and then you walk all the way between the two fields towards the lake, it's behind the field so it would be down that first base line so it's not very convenient. In the original plan they had tennis courts planned back there and hard surface play area, but it was not in the original plan. It kind of took a back seat. Well it definitely took a back seat to the other field sports out there so I don't know if it's something that we. Lash: So we'll never be able to put tennis in there? Hoffman: We could but I don't think it would be in a great location. It's going to be out in the, behind the outfields of the ballparks. So to make that investment and then convenient to parking and those type of things. Lash: How about ice? Hoffman: We have to put it in the, either you can put it in the outfield, and so we could easily put an ice rink there. Out in one of the outfields of the, or excuse me, the infields. Lash: I mean that's something we could think about as far as location. I think we always intended when we came up with our ice spots, that there would be one there. With all those houses... Kelly: Are lights ever slated for the softball fields? Baseball fields or not? Hoffman: They were talked about and they were included and the fact that the city would light those fields was included in all of the housing transactions in the neighboring, the Lundgren developments and they were aware that lights would be coming in there. Lash: Lights are very expensive. Very. But if this is our time to think of all these things, then. Franks: You know when I think about that area, considering the location of the hard court play area and that Springfield development itself and it's neighborhood park has it's own half court basketball and then you take Kiowa Trail. That little also association park, they also have a half court. Lash: Oh they do? Franks: And you know it's kind of that circle of houses. They're built around the circle and the interior of the circle. Hoffman: Okay yep, you're right. 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Franks: And so I don't even know really, as far as like neighborhood play, how necessary it would be to have that as part of the park. What I've been watching is people are going to Bandimere for the sports activity. It's to go there and watch the soccer and I think we really take care of the younger kids being able to recreate while the older kids or parents are with the play equipment. Hoffman: Well it'd probably be more appropriate to put a half court down below the hill in the neighborhood park. Franks: Bandimere Heights Park? That's what I would suggest if we're going to put it in, put it in below. Lash: Because there's nothing down there anymore is there? Hoffman: Playground equipment. Lash: Oh, there still is... Hoffman: But then the soccer field doesn't need to be used anymore down there because it will be vacated to go up above. Lash: So is that something you'd like to. Franks: I'd like to see the hard court play area come out of Bandimere Community Park. Howe: I would agree. Kelly: Would we be able to upgrade the play. Take that $50,000 and upgrade the play equipment are do we just transfer. Do you just transfer that money to Bandimere Heights? Franks: Well that would be something to consider. I think if we're looking at for a younger children's phase II play equipment, $40,000 probably would be pretty... Lash: But the $15,000, that'd be enough wouldn't it to do a basketball? Franks: Because there's nothing slated for Bandimere... I'd keep it in 4. Hoffman: See if people warm up to it. Lash: Okay. Anybody have anything else for Bandimere? Okay, in the vending machine shelter is scrapped. Has there been requests from people for concessions there? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Or picnic shelter? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: That too? Hoffman: Covers for the dugouts. Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Franks: You know there isn't just anyway to have one of those rolled park shelter vending machine things, you know that's got the metal roll down door and you shut off`the vending machines you know. Hoff`man: We had that included, well the rolling thing? Howe: The roll down doors. Franks: With the roll down doors it covers up like during the winter or whenever it is that secures the place. Hoff`man: Well that's what this is. There's one at, has anyone seen the one at Minnewashta Regional Park? The beach? That's exactly what this is taken from. Franks: Okay. $90,000 for one of those? Hoff`man: Unbelievable. You should see it? You can't believe it. There it is. Just a little block building. Lash: What were we paying for those little shelters that we put in neighborhood parks? They were about, how much were they, $25,000? Hoff`man: Yeah, 20 to 35, yeah. Depending on the size. There was two different sizes. Three different sizes. Lash: Well even if we just put one of those in. Some picnic tables. It gives you a little shade and sit up there and eat before a game or after the game or something. Hoffman: I can guarantee if you were out there this weekend, shade was a precious, precious commodity. Franks: The shelter at like Power Hill Park. How much for that one? Hoff`man: That one was the smallest one. About $18,000 1 recall and the largest is done at Meadow Green. That was just over 30,000. Kelly: Todd, do the vending machines generate a lot of revenue? Hoff`man: We do not operate vending machines in our system. They can generate revenue, but they're never going to pay back the $90,000 debt. They're simply a convenience to people. The Boy Scouts operated concessions this weekend at Bluff Creek and were very pleased with their success out there, and I think that's a phase people are looking for. When they have it, they put on concessions when they're hosting toumaments. That's another way of generating revenue for their club during these toumaments so they're looking to the community to provide an opportunity for them so it's not as if we're going to look to this as a revenue generating endeavor. It's simply another amenity to the park when visitors come from out of town they want, it's nice to have that availability because otherwise sometimes there's not very much time between those tournament games and they can't get to town so they want the concessions there and so it's either a building or you can actually have the club serving. Lash: That requires power and. Hoff`man: Yeah, oh yeah. 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: It gets spendy. Hoffman: The shelter at Bluff`Creek was $240,000. Wanning house, bathrooms, shelter and then concession area. Lash: Well I thought we shouldn't just completely eliminate any hope of some kind of shelter there. I mean it's a large community park. It services a lot of people. Hoffman: A park shelter is probably the most appropriate. There's a planned area for that right adjacent to the memorial and the playground. With bathrooms and an area where we can serve, they can do it all in one. So you know you've got bathrooms, you have a window where you can serve concessions and a shelter and that's a couple hundred thousand dollars. Franks: Is that what you're saying is most appropriate? Hoffman: I would think so. I mean if you want to satisfy all those needs. If you don't want indoor bathrooms and all you want is just a covered shelter for people to get out, then I would build a large shelter there so it would be $75,000 for one of these large covered shelters with a concrete area and strictly go at it that way. Whatever you do out there, it has to be on a community park scale and so the Power Hill or the Meadow Green is not going to cut it at Bandimere. We'd just simply be throwing money away. Lash: I'd be more inclined I think to do the shelter, skip the bathrooms. Go with the, keep the Biff`s. Have a nice big shelter and they can still be able to do concessions. Hoffman: Well they'd just have to throw a few tables up undemeath it and square off`a comer. You can do that for a weekend toumament. You don't have to have the availability of other things but to have a focal point where you can get out of the sun and have a concessions there at the shelter. Franks: It's what they did at Eden Prairie, the Lake Riley Park. There they have the beach and the boat landing and now the new sports fields and the volleyball courts and tennis courts. It's pretty high volume... That's an open shelter. Hoffman: Yeah, and it's pretty elaborate. That's more than $75,000. Franks: Yeah. Lash: Well what do you think would be, you know if we were to try and place something like that in for maybe 2005? Hoff`man: Yeah, I'll put, I'll just look the number up for you. I'll bring some photos down to the commission. Lash: Okay. Anything else? Okay, under Bandimere Heights then we said we'd put in the basketball, if there's interest in that in 2004. Anything else for that? Okay, Bluff`Creek Preserve. Anybody have anything for that one? Okay. Carver Beach Park. Anybody have anything for that? Hoffman: For Jack and Tom, as we go through, we'll just make sure you know where these all are at. Carver Beach Park and Carver Beach Playground. The park is the one down on the lake, and so it's the 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 little beaches, and then the playground is the one up on top in the Carver Beach neighborhood. That little square and it's got a playground and a trail loop and a ballfield. Howe: Is the trail that we're talking about, that's already been budgeted for? The meeting that's going to be next week? The trail from that neighborhood to the beach. Hoffman: That one is not budgeted in here and it's unbudgeted in your 2001 CIP so if the council goes ahead and approves it, they'll be taking that money out of 410 as, you know it's been in and out of the CIP because it's been proposed for 12 years and so they would take that money. Howe: How much was that about? Hoffman: About $50,000 with the stairway. And that meeting is next Monday night. Howe: At the spot. Hoffman: At the cul-de-sac. At 7:00 you're welcome to come out. Did you receive a mailing? Lash: Yes. It also was in our packet. Okay, anything under Chan Estates Park. That's the little one over by McDonald's. Okay, how about your's Rod? Chanhassen Hills, anything that needs to get done? The Rec Center. We've got the monument sign and the illuminated wall sign. Hoffman: Yep, done. Lash: They're both done? Hoffman: It's got to be hooked up to the electricity, the wall sign. Lash: Anything else that you can think of for the rec center? Hoffman: New trees but they're going to go in this fall as part of the maintenance budget. Lash: And under City Center, the hockey boards. That got scratched because we're not going to have hockey there? Hoffman: Yeah, the skate park area. Franks: Skate park. Hoffman: The second set of hockey boards was. Lash: Oh, it's the second set. Okay. And then the senior garden got scratched out but that needs to go back in. Franks: What price tag on that plan that we looked at today, what was the price tag for that? Hoffman: Over $100,000 but I think we should get that closer to something like 75. We just need to down, they have raised beds in there which you don't necessarily have to have. Howe: That's up in the comer of the park. 8 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: Yeah, if you want to keep $100,000 in there, it would be easier to complete. The shelter would be nicer. It doesn't take long to spend that kind of money in that kind of project. Lash: Well the shelter has to stay in. We made that as sort of a priority. That needs to get done. Hoffman: Yep. Howe: So that will be like the one at Bluff Creek, that similar amenities? Hoffman: Yes. If that stays in and then all the other trails stay in, you're going to be spending $750,000 in 2002. Making that recommendation so that's the one. This is the only big ticket item in 2002 so it's the one that you need to, when you start looking at priorities, those trail connections you know almost have to have it and 101 doesn't have to happen down south. This doesn't have to happen and those two trail connections are somewhere over $300,000 for the two of those and then you can go from there in making a recommendation. Lash: I don't have a problem with... Hoffman: With the exception of that at City Center, there's really nothing else slated on the master plan. The senior garden and the warming shelter. Lash: Could we move, if we can...that warming house offa year, I'd like to try and see if we can still keep the garden in 2004 if possible. Hoffman: Okay. At $100,0007 Lash: ...in my mind with the south to Bandimere trail to Chan Hills should be a priority too and I'd like to see that done. Actually I would see that done before anything else because I think it's...if we have to choose. You want this trail? Franks: Well I'm thinking. It sounds really kind of silly but the trails have to be done. You know as I watch the city develop out and develop out at a faster pace now, it's not like just a little pockets of neighborhoods here and there and so the demand and pressure to make these trail connections earlier than it was before when heck, you just kind of waited until things filled in because there were farm fields mixed in the neighborhoods. Not the way it is now. And also the use demand on City Center Park is also increasing and so it might just be that this is a timing issue where we have to spend it now to get it in. We're just going to be spending more later with greater pressure to get it done and it's like maybe these are just amenities you can start putting in now to get them in. I mean the park shelter at City Center Park is going to go in. I mean it's got to go in to complete that park. I mean it's going together. Howe: Could we realize any economies of scale when the library's built if we built, no? Okay. Franks: If we have a million 7 now and then over the next 5 years collect what, close to another million and we're talking about in 2002 spending 750 in projects that are not, they're not like. Lash: Maintenance replacement. Franks: Yeah but it's, well. I can't, they're not just completely discretionary type projects. They're projects that have to happen and maybe it's just as expeditious to really line them up and get them on line 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 now. Just do it, and then start banking our money again and that was always our philosophy. Was to be able to bank our money and move when we needed to move and you know start things happening when it was time for them to happen, and I really think that it is time for these things to happen. We already put out the park shelter already. We've already done that, and the trail connectors have to happen and it's time for the park shelter to happen and we've already put it oft~ Lash: Well if we can do it, I don't have a problem doing it. I'm afraid we're going to be totally. Franks: Well then that's what will happen. Spizale: Well I think that'd be a great recommendation from us. You know it's a shame because I think the people an use these trail systems. They can get to the other parks and it's like from my neighborhood on the south side, to be able to safely, you know the kids bike undemeath 5. Now that 5's going to be done, it'd be so nice to put in stuff`that they could use the other side of the road without us worrying about them getting hit by a car getting over there and I think those trail systems being done with 5 being done would be fantastic. And I agree. I think now's the time to do it. Lash: Okay, anything else for City Center? Howe: What do we have for the senior garden, $100,000 in '04? Hoff`man: 100 1 think would be more appropriate. Lash: Well what all really do we have to do? I mean we have to do the grading, right? Hoff`man: Grading. The shelter. The aggregate paths are very expensive. The raised beds and so between the aggregate paths, which are cobblestone and then gravel on the outskirts, and the cobblestone paths. The shelter and the raised beds. Franks: You know, have they even considered though just a Class V limestone, crushed limestone? Hoffman: Amajorityofthemarethat. It'sjustthemainones. Lash: You know that would be a project that I would see to do the Class V but then if we were going to have stones, some sort of stones, one of those donation things with a name too. I would think that the seniors would really. Hoff`man: We can take care ofthat. Lash: I think that would really catch on. Is if they bought a stone and then somebody dies and they go over there, you know what I mean? I can see where that could be a nice addition to that. And then the shelter, what's the shelter now too that's supposed to be going in there. Kind of a gazebo look? Hoff`man: Yeah, gazebo would be $30 to $40,000 for this gazebo. It's a fancier finish to it because it's sitting in a formal garden setting. Lash: So would that have to go in though? Hoff`man: It doesn't have to go in. 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: From the very beginning. Because if we get cut back, I mean I think the flowers are what's... Hoffman: The supplier that shows up and says how am I supposed to build that shelter in the... Spizale: Plus I think the seniors really need the shade. Hoffman: Yep they do. Spizale: I mean they forget the age they're at. I was just at the Arboretum with my mother-in-law and we walked through there and boy every shade spot we got was a gazebo and something else, she'd actually sit and rest and stuff. They do need it. Franks: How long did Stone Creek wait after the installation of Phase I play equipment before we put in Phase II? Hoffman: 4 years. Howe: 4 years anyway. I think it was '96 when the first one went in, wasn't it? So almost over 4 years. Franks: Well if it starts to get tight in 2004, one of the things I would propose would be to push the Phase II play equipment at Bandimere Community Park out to '05. Just change the phase numbers Todd and that would be something that I would be more than comfortable with considering. Lash: Okay. Anything else for City Center? Curry Farms. Wasn't there something we were going to try and do? Fill in. Hoffman: Oh we've been doing that since the park was built. Lash: I see we got the new playground slated. Hoffman: It's a sinking park. Lash: It just continues, we do it all the time? Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: Well wasn't there a ballfield we were going to take out or? Franks: Or to change the backstop. Hoffman: But they want their ballfield and so we just keep patching it and this spring, you might as well go fishing down there instead of playing ball. It was a marsh. It should have never been taken. It could have been taken as park. It should never have been developed into an active park and park dedication should never have been given towards it because we spend so much time mending it. Lash: But they want to keep the ballfield? Hoffman: Yep. Lash: They'd rather do that than have it be tumed into some kind of a nature, natural. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: If we took out the ballfield, cattails would grow. And they don't want that. Lash: Oh. Hoff`man: They want grass. They paid for grass. They like grass. Lash: Okay. How about Herman Field? Howe: How about Herman Field? Franks: Active dog park. I'm telling you, that's. Lash: If we did a dog run somewhere, would that have to be completely fenced in? Hoffman: Most of them are. Spizale: For safety point you probably would. Lash: So what about the big, just that big grassy area that's off`that really doesn't get used for much? Hoff`man: At Herman Field? Lash: Yes. Hoff`man: I think you're nuts. Franks: What, you don't like the idea of making a bigger problem out of a problem? Hoff`man: I love the idea of the dog park but it needs to be in a community park where you don't have to drive through a neighborhood to get to it. There's no hassles, and those people there would, first you ask them if you can take their playground away. Now if you ask them if you can put a dog park in there. Lash: Okay. Kelly: Is there a good spot for a dog park? Hoff`man: If there is and I think we'd have one because we're so aggressive in our program that if there's a good spot for one, we'd have one and the only spot that I could even think that it might work, but it's too small, would be the edge of the ballfield at Lake Susan where you could fence off`down to that pond and so you could fence off; up from the pond and down along the trail and then back along. They could drive in and park in the community park. Take your dog over, and utilize that space. Lash: Is that where the archery? Hoff`man: Well yeah, the archery range is down farther. This would be. Lash: Does that ever get used? Hoff`man: Oh yeah, all the time. 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: Oh. Hoffman: This would be right next to the, justoffofwhatwouldbethethirdbaseline. Soyoucould fence that area. You know you often think about we have a lot of parks but we're not that land rich in areas, you know, no place for disc golf. Some of the kids would like to see a disc golf like they have in Eden Prairie. We don't have a spot for that. Dog park. And so what do you do? And what I've been doing is harping on Marty Walsh out at the Regional Park. You're the guy for the dog park. Lash: How about at Lake Ann, up on the north side of the ballfields, you know where there's that one parking area and then it comes down around like that. There's a big grassy area up there. What about that? Would that be big enough? Hoffman: Again, it's right there in that, you know where it's large enough but I think for the popularity we would soon find ourselves not large enough. I know right where, it's just a little bowl that sits between the two parking areas. And then you fence the area off`so. It might be something to look at there. I hadn't thought about that spot. They're very popular. They're just going to be like a skate park for adults and dogs because it's going to be like that once you put it in. Franks: Well just my view was that, if we got people that were using that for a recreational purpose, it's going to drive the fun out of people who are using it for other than recreational purposes. I mean it's being used, it identifies as that thing that's going to come here. I don't know, I kind of thought it was offensive to the neighbors.., a park for dogs would be kind of a detriment. Lash: Well but there's not really a lot of houses right there. Hoff`man: But the ones that are most active in the management of the park are the first five right outside the road. And what they're going to tell you is oh fine, now we're going to have barking dogs up until a legal park hours and then after park hours, they're gone and now we have the other people so you haven't solved a thing. Because that's what they really came across. Lash: Okay. Hoff`man: Herman Field just needs to be, we just need to lay low on Herman Field and continue to work with the Neighborhood Crime Watch and the neighborhood and the police and try to clear up what we have there currently. Lash: How about Kerber Pond Park? Interpretative park trail for 2003. Kelly: What exactly is an interpretative? I know there's like a soft grass trail that goes around the pond. Is that what the interpretative trail is or? Hoff`man: That's what it would be and then you would put in signage such as an arboretum has where you have certain species are identified. Interpretative signage and so as people take this walk, they can expand on their experiences and say, you know point out to them, the children and the other people with them, here's this kind of tree or this kind of grass or flower. Landscape. Look at the history. Lash: How about Lake Ann? We talked...the whole idea of a dog run in that open space. Hoff`man: That'd be a good place to look at it. Everybody to contemplate while they're out there. 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: And then I know over the years we've got it slated in somewhere, another picnic shelter for... Hoffman: Right on top of the hill at the ballfields for concessions, bathrooms. Lash: Oh, I was thinking that was a picnic shelter. Another picnic shelter. Hoffman: Oh, at the Parkview. Yep, that's been talked about. Lash: But that could be in the dog run side, isn't it? Hoffman: No. It'd be in the other side unless you were, you were talking about north of the ball parks on the east side. Thisisjustonthewestside. Parkview's a very popular picnic area. 50% ofthe people that reserve it bring a tent. They rent a tent and so if you would put a shelter up there, then it would just provide that much more of an amenity. And then a concession stand has been discussed at the ballfields, and so instead of the buildings up there you would have a larger facility with flush toilets and those type of things. Many of those amenities, you know such as the future shelter are things that 20 years from now the community can take care of. It's portable toilets for the summer softball season, people can live with it and yeah, at some point when everything else in done and they're looking around to gussy up their park district they can say, oh. Let's put that shelter in with the flush toilets. Howe: That's in the $250,000 range? Hoffman: Yep. Every one of those. Lash: Okay, does anybody else have anything else down... Franks: ... as a part of maintenance this winter at the swim beach with non-skid. Hoffman: Yeah. We may just even before that take that dock out and replace it. Franks: That'd be good. You will replace the dock? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: And Lake Susan Park. Anything there? Hoffman: Town lights were also talked about over the years at Lake Susan for the athletic facility there. Baseball field. Lash: Does that even get used anymore? Hoffman: Yeah, it's scheduled. Lash: Isn't that a Babe Ruth? Hoffman: Yes. That's the older kids. Remember nation wide, baseball numbers dropping. Girls softball numbers dropping. 25% from 1995 to 2000. Nationwide 25% reduction in team sports across the entire country. Organized team sports so, for a while we didn't have enough adult softball fields. They wanted to tear down trees at Lake Ann and build softball fields and now we have less teams then we did 5 years 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 ago. We have fewer teams than we did 10 years ago. And youth sports is still the same way. Children are participating in highly stimulating computer games. Video games. Skate parks. Those type of things and they're just dropping out of the standing in the outfield waiting for the fly ball so that's the changing times. Lash: Okay, under Meadow Green. We talked about playground replacement, that was funded for there wasn't it? Hoffman: When the time comes and these $40,000 probably won't do it. You should probably bump that up to 50 because $10,000, well actually it's more than that. $15,000 in a border. Lash: We might as well do it now. Hoffman: The park sees a lot of use. People talk about if we could improve it with draintile, which would be a major budget item. I don't see the activities going away down there. The neighborhood has grown accustomed to it and the people just absolutely need it for their organized sports. Something to look at. Lash: Minnewashta Heights Park. Anybody have anything for that? Hoffman: If you have a chance to take a look, they've done such a nice job with their entryway landscaping. Hud Hollenbeck and his group and the city planted trees on our side of the park. And so he fought for his neighborhood, the association, very devisive argument. Tearing down what was there. It was big and overgrown but it did provide a sound block to Highway 7. He persevered and they are very nice planting now. Worked with Jill Sinclair up there and they made a very nice addition to their neighborhood so that's what counts. Lash: Okay, North Lotus Lake. Anything for there? Didn't we talk about a trail at one time down. Hoffman: At where? Howe: Where the parking lot is. Hoffman: It's in. Lash: ...that was down along the lake kind of. Hoffman: It's in. Lash: Oh it's done, okay. Hoffman: As part of their trail, and by the way. They love those trails that went in North Lotus, Carver Beach. Neighborhood use out at North Lotus increased probably 30% because of that one single amenity. Lash: So while we're trying to figure what we should do. Hoffman: Little neighborhood trail loops. They love them. Lash: Okay, Pheasant Hill Park. Anything on that one? Hoffman: It's a nice park. Jerry will talk to you about the skating rink later on. It's just not getting used. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Howe: Is that seeing more use now that those homes have gone in on the west side of Galpin? Does that other park serve that other service area? Hoffman: West side of Galpin. Howe: Yeah, what do they call it? Hoffman: The people that use that park are just immediately to the north of that. Lash: How about Power Hill? Hoffman: I don't think I've ever gotten a call on Phase II. Lash: Yeah I would think that, if it's not a demand thing. Hoffman: It's pretty full right now and I don't think $20,000 would buy the Phase II in 2004 but. Lash: I say we. Howe: Get rid of it? Lash: Yeah. If we get a call about it sometime... Franks: I know a lot of people that live over there and no one's said anything to me. Lash: Well there just.., space really. Hoffman: There's a space in there for it. But it seems, every time I've been there it seems to work. Lash: Okay. How about Prairie Knoll Park? That one's. Hoffman: Colorful park. Franks: Love that color. Lash: Rainbow. Rainbow slides. Franks: Can we get the bench up on the knoll? Hoffman: Sure. Do we have a spot for it? Franks: There's a spot up on the knoll. Hoffman: We'll have to mow a trail up there. Franks: Yeah, mow a trail. Lash: That's all that was ever supposed to be there. Franks: I want the bench up on the knoll. Every time I drive by or come by on the bike. 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: ...Rice Marsh Lake. I don't think they need anything either, do they? Franks: No. Lash: How long ago did they get their new playground? Hoffman: Probably during the referendum, '98. Lash: So they had their little funky shelter that. Hoffman: Yep, we built. Lash: Round House, we got a little update from Deanne so we'll have to wait and see on that. Anything else for the park itself? Should it not be Phase II to the playground? Hoffman: There should be. They ask about that one a lot. Lash: I know. 4 or 5? Probably some far out thinking that the round house itself isn't renovated, we could just use the $40,000 for playground? Hoffman: Sure. 2004, $30,000. Lash: Don't tell anyone that that's the Plan B. Hoffman: Consolation prize. Lash: Anything else for Round House? We had originally talked about hockey there. So that's completely it? Hoffman: No, still the plan. The park was designed for it. There's a space for a hockey board assembly there, but with the question of the round house unresolved and if you have a wanning house for there or not. Currently we flood it for open skating so if the neighborhood, you know for the city to say okay we're going to plunge $120,000, you're going to have to have a neighborhood group there banging on your door to make that happen. I just don't see the City Council saying oh, yeah good idea to put in a hockey rink. Has anybody been talking about that? The master plan has it and if people start saying hey, this is the deal we want, let's get it done. I think for that kind of improvement, that's what it will take. Lash: South Lotus. Anything on that? That's sitting okay isn't it? Hoffman: Nice park. Lash: Stone Creek. Mike? Howe: Put a check there on Phase II. It's done. Lash: Anything else that you can think of that your wife desires. Howe: No, nothing we can do. 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: Out of space. Out ofmoney. Howe: No, it's fine. It's a wonderful park. The neighbors love it. Very heavy use. Franks: That trail, is the bridge holding up good? Howe: Yep, seems to be. Lash: And no equipment down there... Franks: ... and with that newest development going in, we secured another outlot to that development contingent to Stone Creek Park. Hoff`man: Park dedication only. The outlot they kept and gave it to the homeowners. We thought we'd get the whole Bluff`Creek outlot, but they said nah. If you aren't going to pay us for it, we'll keep it. Howe: ...building going on. Two houses it looks like to me going up. Lash: So they gave it to the neighbors? Hoff`man: Yes. Lash: And so? Hoff`man: It will stay in open space. Lash; How about Sugarbush. That one's pretty much done, isn't it? Hoff`man: It has a Phase II but it's fairly brand new and we came in there and punched a whole ton on money in there right up front so I don't think anybody was. Howe: I've see a fair amount of use when I drive down Galpin. There's usually cars there moming, noon and night. Kids going in and people walking on the trails. Lash: Okay, Sunset Ridge. Any calls on that? Hoff`man: No calls. We put a trail connector in there which has been received well and there's a hockey rink slated there as well but I don't think it's going to be. Lash: I don't think that's ever going to happen. Franks: Are the apartments going back there? Hoff`man: Yep. Power Ridge. Franks: Power Ridge Apartments. Hoff`man: They're grading out there. That will be a neighbor to this. 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Franks: So are we expecting that they there is going to be significant, because those are family apartment units from what I remember. Are we expecting a significant increase in traffic and usage at Sunset Ridge Park? Hoff`man: No, because they have such elaborate on site recreation component that people may go over there for large sport activities and the other stuff. They're going to stay at the pool. Franks: Okay, great. Kelly: Could we go back to the...it was talking about pushing out the Phase II past 2004. I kind of think Bandimere needs that stage II if the Phase I is for older kids because you've got the soccer families and the baseball families there. The older kids are playing a sport. It'd be nice to have a facility where the younger of the two, or the younger siblings can play while their older brothers and sisters are playing soccer and baseball. Lash: What did you say, it's almost, it'd be 5 to 127 Hoff`man: Yeah. The tots, the 2 to 5 is the second. You have to separate them physically so. I had the same thought Tom because there's lots of families out there. It'd be nice to put it in. They're going to play on the one that goes up but it's not there for their site. Howe: Get it out to 04. Hoffman: The teams that come in from out of town, they just can't say enough about that park. Unfortunately the entrance is the only down side. Lash: I saw a nasty accident one day coming home from work. Yeah, it had just happened. The police weren't even there yet. The people were running all over. Hoffman: Yeah. The one idea is to actually, one of the cause of these accidents is people are watching the activity on the soccer field as they're driving south and so to screen that off`with pine trees. And so they have to concentrate on the, it's a much better intersection now with the islands and the traffic flow but still people are making the error. They're tuming before looking so. Lash: How about some kind of, how about like lilac bushes or something. Pine trees take forever to grow. Hoff`man: Yep, some kind of a hedge there and we can simply do that and just blind people and focus them on the intersection. It will take until 101 is upgraded for that to be taken out of there and leveled oft~ The intensity, the public outcry was just huge before the improvements to the intersection. Since that time I've not talked to anybody but I'm well aware that accidents continue and near misses continues, which is something we don't want to do. We want to promote health and safety, not traffic accidents. Lash: Well should we plunk some money in for landscaping? Hoff`man: That'd be a great idea. Lash: Like 2002? Howe: Yeah, it should be soon. 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: That's a safety issue. Why don't you put some kind of figure in there... You know I love a row of pine trees but it would take 15 years. Hoffman: Lilacs would be great. Franks: How about a row ofbuckthom? Hoffman: No thanks. Lash: Okay, then with the trail improvements. Hoffman: This is where we have to add all those in. Lash: Yep, well and the Bandimere to Chan Hills one is deleted out which, I don't think any of us want it deleted out. It needs to be moved to 2002. And the Whitetail Ridge Court to Lake Lucy Lane, I'm having a little trouble remembering. Howe: It's where Jay lives. Lash: Was that that one? Hoffman: Yep. Franks: Through those back yards? Hoffman: Yeah. Lash: You mean, there wasn't really a big outcry to get it done, was there? Hoffman: Just the one resident that called. That's why it was put on the agenda. The residents in Whitetail from his neighborhood. Because we went out there that night. Howe: There's more important trails. Franks: Yes, I would agree. Hoffman: In 2002 we're going to add the underpasses. Howe: Yeah, I think those are important. Lash: And the Marsh Glen. That was done? Hoffman: It's currently the city part of the trail, the plans are just about final. Lash: Now that's the one, isn't it over by Mission Hills? Hoffman: It comes out of there. Our watershed permit is in application for the watershed district. We have to culvert for a bridge across Riley Creek at that location, so that permit has been applied for, and then currently working with the developer. We went out there to keep track of what was going on with the easement between the lots. It wasn't graded. It was supposed to be graded. There was a utility box in the 20 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 middle of it so we called for a meeting and these things are so cute when you get out there. You stand with the developer and you stand out there and you say, what's this utility box? I know. Who put that utility box right there? Who did that? So he looks at his right hand man, who put the utility box right there? Todd, I can't believe that. We'll have to take care of that. Can we move the trail around? I said well, if it fits we can look at it but get it done. So they have their work to do and we have our work to do and then... this fall. Great connector. Lash: And then Highway tOt one, that's north, correct? And who knows when that's ever going to happen. Do we know? Hoffman: We don't know. Tom Workman has secured a $250,00 DNR, quarter million or halfa million? Halfa million dollar DNR grant if we can get it done in 36 months. Lash: I think quarter of a million, 250. Hoff`man: I think it was 5. What did he tell me today? Halfa million I think. Howe: For the trail? Hoffman: Yeah, for the trail. Franks: From the DNR? Hoffman: Yeah. For trails and highway grant. Lash: Way to go Tom. Hoff`man: But you've got to get the road built and you have to have it done and submit the bill in 36 months. Franks: You mean only as a part of the road reconstruction? Hoff`man: Correct. Lash: Okay so on this we would need to add the other two connectors, correct? Hoffman: The underpasses? Lash: Yeah. Howe: What do you figure, those are 150-2507 Hoffman: 250 and then the other one is closer, around tOO. So 250 is the Lake Ann and Bluff`Creek is about St00,000. Those again are rough estimates. I want to secure those numbers through some engineer estimates, feasibility studies. Howe: Plus we want to do Bandimere to Chan Hills, right? Franks: And we're still making that $200,000 for Bandimere to Chan Hills? 21 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: Probably 200 to 250. Again, if we, if you would like to see that happen I'd like to get those feasibility studies prepared. See if the council, if they buy in the feasibility study, obviously they'd buy into the capital. Lash: Well that really is something that has to happen. It's got to happen and we can put it off`as long as we want to, it's just going to keep costing more and more money. It has to happen so. Howe: Safety issue. Kelly: I mean is it a Bandimere Park for the Springfield residents...to the south. Lash: Yeah, it's one for everyone south to get to town. Or down to the park. If they're north, it gets them to the park. Kelly: And as a side benefit it will link up, it links up to the LRT trail. Because you go to the park and get on the trail on 101 to Pioneer then take it right, because Eden Prairie's doing some nice work at that trail entrance. Really an LRT trail. Franks: That trail down to the LRT at the lift station, that's all in now? Hoff`man: We built that and the city of Eden Prairie. Lash: Anything else on the trails that anybody can think of? Okay, and then under basic other improvements. That's just always pretty much. Hoff`man: The skate park kids would like about 7 to 7,500 bucks which I don't see as a big issue to keep that thing going in 2002. Lash: Is that something the Chamber would be willing to pony up for? Hoff`man: There is no money in service groups. I mean they don't have charitable gambling. The Chamber doesn't have $7,500. You know we would like to think that like this thing would be a Rotary or a Lion's, but they just don't have the cash without the gambling. But something I would like you to, keeping those groups involved in some smaller activities I think is just good community relations so, I happen to be joining the Rotary so I think it's a good connection now in that group, and same thing with the Lion's. We have Gary Boyle on the council who's a strong Lion's member. When you go to these out state communities, I mean that's really a big part of the deal. They have Lion's Park, or Rotary Park or they buy things and the Rotary has done, or the Lion's, they have donated over $50,000 cash to the lights at Field #4 and they have the money out there that was dedicated that evening and they keep giving. They make about $5,000 in Christmas trees and they're going to send it up to city hall to pay for their lights so. Lash: They can make some pretty good money at the 4th of July too. Hoff`man: The Rotary did. They made about $10,000. Lash: And February Fest too. Hoff`man: Lion's. That's pretty small change, but the beer garden at the Rotary is the biggest money maker for the year. They grossed about 14 and made about $10,000 cash in 4 hours. 22 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: Well the Rotary they can set up Bingo at the 4th of July. They could make. Hoff`man: They just don't have enough members. They barely have enough members to staff`the beer tent. Lash: Okay. Anything else? We always have the basic stufl~ Hoff`man: Yeah, trees and a lot of that stuff. Okay, I'll add it up and... RECREATION PROGRAMS: 4m OF dULY CELEBRATION EVALUATION. Franks: Thank you Chair Lash and members of the commission. Excuse me but I do have to leave to relieve the babysitter, but before I go I'd like to make a comment on the 4th of July celebration. I thought it was great. Great celebration. Great fireworks display this year. It was fantastic. And I'm looking at the suggestions for 2002, and I'm seeing under number 2, look at adding new and exciting activities and I would propose that we really look at significantly expanding the offerings at the July 4th festival to not only be inclusive of families and small children. The children's games, but really look at involving the teens, older teens and younger adults in something more than the street dance and food vendors. The best way I think to do that would be to consider, and maybe start looking into adding a camival vendor up in City Center Park. You know if they're successful, it's not one that costs us. We actually would probably the way I understand the system works, is we would actually end up generating revenue from the camival vendors so, so I really think that, I know I will be pursuing some various vendors and passing those onto Jerry so he can take a look at them and hopefully he can come back with some information at a later date. Hoff`man: I support the concept. Lash: That's why he wanted to leave. Drop that bomb and run. Franks: Other than that. Hoff`man: Our family spent 8 hours at the...camival. Those kids went absolutely nuts. Franks: Absolutely nuts. Hoff`man: $15 bucks. Well it was 12 because pre-sales so, 12 bucks a kid and they went for 8 hours. Mom and I just trapsed behind them. They had a blast. Franks: And the Dippin Dots guy needs to bring way more material. Lash: Did he run out? Hoff`man: He ran out, yeah. Ran out early. Lash: I told him that the thing, at the Art festival to bring lots. He didn't believe me. He just thought I was some dumb broad. Franks: Thank you. Hoff`man: See you Rod. The Rotary served 40-16 gallon kegs in 4 hours. A lot of consumption. Did you see the article in the paper? Got another call on that as well. 23 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: Actually I had a couple comments from folks who were concemed, not as much I don't think with the overall consumption as underage consumption that they thought was going on. Personally I didn't see it but, and how do you know. I mean people just looking around. There's 21 year olds that look young so we don't know. Hoffman: Well and they carded but then they could just buy beer and hand it out. So that's part ofthe reason we're looking at these increased security measures with the fencing and this and that. Lash: I had a couple comments too, and I know this probably is going to sound like old foggie comments but, the volume of the band. I thought the band was just way too loud. I don't know if that's something we can ask them if they can tum it down just a smidge or what. Hoffman: We've asked them every year. This year the Rotary thought it was actually less so, I think what we're going to do is just in the layout, make it larger and tell them to keep the volume to, they love volume those bands. If you tell them to tum down their volume, I think it's like some sort of insult because they, we say, I remember the Rotary really got hot on that about 3-4 years ago and I went right up to these people and I said you know, we're writing your check. We want the volume down and they almost ignored you so. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Spizale: They couldn't hear you. Hoffman: Yeah, they couldn't hear you so we'll work on that. It's a discussion I have every year. Lash: Okay. Anybody else have anything? Kelly: I know a couple people asked me about the start time of the parade. They're wondering why is it in the middle of the aftemoon. If it's possible to move it up in the moming so it doesn't break up the day as much as it does now. You don't get hit in the heat of the day either. I don't know if it's just tradition that it's always in the afternoon or if you want to accommodate the events that lead up to the. Hoffman: Yeah, it was the accommodation of the events that led up to the parade but there's really nothing sacred about that start time. You try to build up tradition but if it's the wrong tradition, you know the best time to change it is the next year. Lash: Food for thought. Hoffman: Yeah. I've never heard that comment. It's something to think about. Lash: It is. It does get hot. Kelly: And it nap time for some of the younger, I mean people that have very young kids. Lash: Well and it's little kids who really enjoy the parade. Older kids. Hoffman: I know the one, another reason is the band that comes out of Waconia plays 3 parades in Delano before it gets here and so if you want, that's been the only marching band which they've routinely been able to contract with and you have to, they come here at our parade and then they leave here and they go to Apple Valley after that so that's one part of the tradition. For that marching band. Deb Kind will no longer be the chair so there's a spot available for the parade chair so pass that word around. I know some people did not like the longer route because people stopped playing once they got up to this end of town 24 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 and they wanted it changed back, but it can't change back because the library road will be gone. So the route has to stay the longer route. Lash: Okay. Anything else? Do you have anything else Tom? Jack, what did you think? Spizale: I thought the 4th of July thing was great. The fireworks were great. I think we were involved in everything that was going on and we had an absolute ball both days. Big time. Hoffman: The comment made at the Chamber luncheon today was that, you know our community without a high school so people don't meet and greet at the Friday night games and they were talking, what is it? What is it? What's the community event and they said it's the 4th of July. It's the one thing we've got that we can hang our hat on so keep it going. Lash: It's huge and it was great. Tell Corey it was a great job. His first time because he was nervous. Everything went ofl~ One little thing, and this could have just been because of the smaller tent and I know a lot of tables and chairs were set up outside because it was hot but it seemed like once the band started there was kind of a mad rush to get chairs in the tent area. Hoffman: There was. Lash: Were we short on chairs or was there just that many more people? Hoffman: More people. Same number of chairs but I think a bit more people. And smaller tent so. Lash: Can we up the number of chairs? Hoffman: Yep, absolutely. Lash: You know when it's that hot people would probably sit outside of the tent anyway just as overflow if we had enough for them. Hoffman: Yeah the whole layout will just be expanded. We saved $2,800 because, I think it was 28. 2,600 because we went with that smaller tent, but it ended up to be a mistake anyway. They have a larger tent, this same company. It was up in Princeton or somewhere that day so we've already booked it for next year. So it's still less expensive with this company but it's another 20 feet wide which we need. And then we're just going to keep expanding it. I mean you look at the whole layout before it starts and you say boy, it looks like a lot of room and by the time you pack all those people in there and food and, we had a couple of vendors drop at the last minute, and walking around that event and I talked to so many people that say wow, look at the people. Look at how much money they're making. Can we do that? You know softball associations and so we're going to try to keep blocking them in there and get them over there. Everybody should serve. I mean look at the money you could make there in 4 hours. Howe: How were the lines at the food vendors? Hoffman: Long. Howe: They were long again? Lash: I had a hamburger and I walked right up and that was the Boy Scouts but that might have been. 25 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: Was that early? Lash: Well it was before I started working so yeah. It was probably 6:00 maybe. Kelly: We had a heck of a wait in line when we went both times. Hoffman: And we had more than we did last year so we've just got to keep building it and keep building it. You know people like Frankie's or Dominoes, why can't they come out. Howe: Subway. They could be making sandwiches for 3 days before. I mean people...who cares. They eat it. Hoffman: We're going to be actively out there seeking those people to come on up and. Howe: Local people, they could make a lot of money. Hoffman: A pizza vendor could make a ton of money that night. Lash: Well Frankie's has got one of those big round things right? All they'd need is power. Load them up and oh yeah. Hoffman: So we'll be out there after them. I mean the complexity of this thing is you have to have everything for 4 hours and so it takes a lot of set-up and a lot of this but that's the event. I mean people want to have a good memory. We want people to have a good time there and so yeah, you have to pull out all the stops for 4 or 5 hours but that's what they want. Lash: How about the Girl Scouts? Do they, are they interested in games or food? Hoffman: We sent it to all, we contacted all those groups and that's why there was increased participation this year from the hockey people and those type of people because we sent all those letters out but. Lash: They could order lots of extra cookies and sell cookies or something. I mean really anything would sell. You know do we have somebody serving caramel apples don't we already? Get the Girl Scouts to do that. You pour in the apple and pour some caramel on it and sell it for $2.50. Hoffman: The Mexican Fried Cake guy, he backed out so there was one missing. Howe: Who backed out? Hoffman: Mexican fry cake. The batter. What do they call that thing? Lash: Funnel cake. Hoffman: Yeah, funnel cakes. Lash: I was so busy working I didn't even get a chance to even get Dippin Dots. Hoffman: So we'll get you a layout of the new site and how that is all going to work and. 26 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: Well I thought it was great. He did a great job and I liked seeing the little game things. Whatever you call it. Hoffman: Community stuff. Lash: Yeah. I mean easy fund raiser. It's so easy and there's lots of places they could go. I still think bingo would be huge. I mean huge. St. Hubert's or somebody to operate bingo, they'd make a ton. Howe: Do they get a permit for that? Lash: Yeah, I think you've got to get a gambling permit. They do it at their other thing but maybe one of the other churches wants to. But we used to have it, or was that at Oktoberfest. Septemberfest. Hoffman: Septemberfest, yeah. Lash: And there was always people, people were always in there playing bingo. Hoffman: That was the Rotary. Rotary bingo. Lash: It wouldn't take that much to operate. Okay, anything else? SELF-SUPPORTING PROGRAMS: FALL ADULT SOFTBALL. Lash: Anybody have questions about that? ADMINISTRATIVE: WESTWOOD COMMUNITY CHURCH. Hoffman: Westwood Community Church is locating west of Highway 41, off of Dogwood Avenue. I don't know if you've seen those plans. I have them upstairs. I'll bring them down for you after the meeting but. Lash: Where is that? Hoffman: I'll show you on the map, because the most interesting part. Lash: Oh, it's over by Lake Minnewashta, right? Just north of Arboretum. Hoffman: The main reason for talking about it would be the extension of, 41 comes down to 5 and the new frontage road will stop right here. And this will be Pulte on both sides ofthe road right here. Susan Markert, that's her property. The little farm right here. And then Tanadoona, the Arboretum, right across from this there's two private lots and then the Arboretum owns all of this and then Dogwood comes back to Lake Minnewashta over here. And the church bought all this property right in here. And they're going to build their church up on the hill overlooking this low lying area, and then in the future if they want to expand their other uses, their youth center and their expansion and those type of things, this road has to extend West 78 back to here and then there's continue. And so they have to buy these properties and th going to be a large chunk of land that's going to develop here as well and so, you're going to have another road, the extension of the parkway, so as all of this land develops, we start thinking about well, where are these people receiving their recreational services. And what's going to happen hopefully is that trail connection north to the regional park and we have 400 acres of park just north of there. So there's no subdivision here so there's no opportunity for the city to acquire land or charge fees and the people who 27 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 consulted with the church, it's obviously, they could subdivide this for, and get some benefit out of it but it's going to cost them a million dollars in park and trail dedication fees and they're not going to do it. So no subdivision. Identical to Eckankar. When Eckankar went in, no subdivision because then the park board has access to those dedication dollars so we don't have to formally review this but I wanted to bring it to your attention so you're aware when people are now talking in the street that this thing is coming in. A big chunk of land. Many of our residents are members out there. Growing church. Probably the largest church in the city next to St. Hubert's by the time it's all said and done. Howe: When are they starting on that Todd? Hoffman: I think they'll start on it next spring. Lash: Just since you brought up Eckankar, and this is not on our agenda at all but when they put in their request for all the different things that they wanted to do, that didn't require any kind of change of anything for them? Hoffman: They were approved for that in their original proposal. For those buildings. Lash: In their original proposal? Hoffman: They had to go through a, I'll have to ask what the process was. Lash: Is there anybody left besides you around here? Hoffman: Gerhardt. Lash: It'd be interesting for somebody to, and I'm assuming when they made this request it was done and actually I mentioned it to one of our former city council members at the time when that was on their agenda but it really sticks in my mind that their conditional use permit was based on the fact that they would never approach the city for any other additions to their initial building and that was a condition put on at the time of that approval. And that if they ever came back and asked that their conditional use permit would be pulled. I was really surprised when that went through with not even a blink. Hoffman: Not even a question, yeah. Lash: Yeah. Hoffman: Nine buildings I think. Lash: I was just really shocked that that went through because I was pretty involved at that time in that whole thing because I live right there and I usually have a pretty good memory for that kind of stuff. Hoffman: Usually. Lash: I could be mistaken but I'd be interested in seeing...because I was surprised it went through. Okay. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. Lash: You got anything Mike? 28 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Howe: Race committee. Just a brief meeting. I need volunteers. If you don't want to run in the race or walk the race, I do need some volunteers. Now I don't know exactly what you'll be doing but. Lash: Prize board? Howe: You have a great memory. I'll find something for you, so I need some volunteers. Things can still continue to gel with the Vikings. Lash: Have you registered Vikings? Howe: Yeah, they'll be there. And the cheerleaders. But that's really all. Get your application in if you want to run. So that's all I have. Spizale: What's the date on that? Howe: September 15th. Kelly: I think the Chaska Run is this Saturday or Sunday. Howe: In River Days or something? Kelly: Yeah. Howe: ...Thank you, that's all I had. Lash: Go back to reports forjust one second. SorryMike. Did we book Casablanca for next year? Hoffman: I don't know. I'll ask. I assume so. Howe: I think we did. I think he said he did already in the packet. Hoffman: If they're still in business, we need them back. Lash: I think they're playing in Chaska on Saturday night.., so they're copying us. Hoffman: Noooo, not Chaska. Lash: Any other committee reports? Gee I wish I had something to say about Memorial Park. Do we even have a committee anymore? COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: Lash: Commission member presentations. Tom, you got anything? Kelly: No. Lash: Michael? Howe: No. 29 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Lash: Jack? I don't either. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET. Lash: Administrative packet. Anybody have any? Howe: Just a couple comments. On the picnic evaluations. Some friends ofmine and neighbors were at Lake Susan and I haven't been there in a while. Maybe it was the heat or the sun. The beach they said was pretty crappy, I guess that might not be the word I'd used officially but with the birds and I think the water. I know that's a small, shallow lake and the water gets that green tinge so I haven't seen it but I did have a few people tell me that. It was the beach, they didn't really, I mean I think they had a good time. It was a hot day but the beach was not in the shape I would think it should have been. My understanding with birds and with the way it was, with the sunlight and the weather we've had, could be a possibility. Hoffman: At Lake Susan it's not just possible. It's inevitable. We were so aware of that when we put that beach in that there was never a beach there but then remember the neighbors said yeah, let's put it in. Let's put it in. Howe: That's what I said. Hoff`man: And early in the season I might go in there. Later in the season, it's crappy at Lake Susan. No doubt about it. And there's nothing we can do about that. The water quality, I mean we can take a look at it if we need to rake the beach, we'll do that. I'll let the guys know about that but I'm not surprised to hear that comment. Lash: Sobeforeweadjoumlet'slookatthecoupleofhandoutsthatwejustgottonight. The one about the Fox Chase thing. Anybody have anything on it? Howe: No, I expect to be there because I do the August 13th City Council meeting. I'll be there to see what's going on. This is the place we looked at between the two houses, right? Lash: Or it's too close to the house. Howe: Alright. Hoffman: A lot of jockeying going on. Howe: Really? Hoff`man: Oh yeah. Lash: Well I guess I'm kind of surprised after everything that we went through with this, I know it was several years ago but we kind of eliminated, I can't even remember right off`now but I know we eliminated the concept of having an L and go down to the lake. We'd have them just go out to Mohawk, and that was our recommendation. Correct? Hoff`man: Correct. Lash: So then it went to the City Council and I was there that night with all the neighbors and so then they went back to this plan. 30 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Hoffman: They wanted the L. Lash: Because that's what the neighbors wanted. Hoffman: Correct. Lash: I'm trying to remember why we eliminated the L. Was it a cost factor or was it that we didn't figure we could have the easement if we, we were trying to move it offof our... Howe: Did they move? Are they still there? Hoffman: Yep, they're still there. Yeah, that was a negotiation to remove it. Take the burden offofthem. Put it over onto the Hedlund's but for that the Hedlund's would get rid of the other one down to the lake. Lash: Right. So how did this all fall, I just sort of feel like you know people came and talked to us. We took what they said at face value and we made our recommendation based on what they said, and then all of a sudden. Well not all of a sudden. A couple years later they go to the City Council and did an about face on it. Howe: 360. Lash: Yeah, so then we kind of end up looking like either we weren't listening to people or we don't know what we're doing. Hoffman: It's still 100% up in the air. It's still, they could change completely again at this meeting next Monday night and then what they want is a complete consensus. Well that is never going to happen. And so the people, they're going to come up with something that they want to present to the City Council on that night. There's going to be some people that walk away that aren't happy that can still come down to the City Council and say we still don't like what you got going here so. It's just so dynamic. We made a recommendation and the people stood up that liked the recommendation and said we want to change. And they changed. Council said let's change. And then the council said to present a plan so we presented a plan and then they changed, they didn't like that. They changed again so it's one of those, it's why it's been around for 12 to 13 years. Lash: I guess my frustration isn't necessarily with the residents or what, it's sort of the process that again, they're just going directly to the City Council and so why are we here? If people are going to just go straight to the City Council and take care of the business there. What are we doing? Hoffman: Well, we went through the process. We made a recommendation and then, now there's this negotiation taking place at the council level. There's not a lot of heat about that. Howe: A couple years ago? Hoffman: Two years ago. Howe: The house wasn't built on that one lot. Hoffman: It's still not. 31 Park and Rec Commission Meeting July 24, 2001 Howe: It's still not. People still use, they're using the trail now. It's not officially graded or paved. Hoffman: Correct. Lash: Okay. And then on the Round House thing with Deanna, I guess we just have to wait and see. Yeah, it's like we're down to the wire. Okay, and we talked about...the dog run. Hoffman: Yeah, why don't we just all take a look at those sites when we're driving around. Dog park. Lash: And then it looks like we're...geese. Hoffman: Yeah, what the goose report says is that there's not as many geese in town. What'd they catch? 44 or 60. Normally they catch 2 to 3 times that many. Lash: Usually that many at one location. Hoffman: So between the removal program, the fall, early hunting season and the fact that it was a wet spring, these geese laid their eggs and they were drown. So the water comes up that high and so it was poor nesting across the state this year so the goose population was reduced by that. Lash: Good. Okay, anybody have anything else? Nothing? Todd, do you have anything else? Is there a motion to adjoum? Howe moved, Spizale seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 32