PRC 2000 10 24CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 24, 2000
Chairwoman Lash called the Park and Recreation Commission meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Mike Howe, Jim Manders, David Moes, Jay Karlovich,
and Rod Franks
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Chairwoman Lash added to approve the complete version of the Minutes
from the August 22, 2000 Park and Recreation Meeting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Howe moved, Karlovich seconded to approve the Minutes from the Park and Recreation Commission
meeting dated August 22, 2000 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Berg moved, Howe seconded to approve the Minutes from the Park and Recreation Commission
Meeting dated September 26, 2000 amended to show Tracy Peterson as not present. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
REPORTS:
2001 FEBRUARY FESTIVAL.
Ruegemer: A lot of these program reports are FYI in content. Basically what we'll try to do is get the date
up there right now for Feb Fest. Of course the commission knows about 2 or 3 years ago we agreed upon
really the first Saturday of February. Where that equates out to be in 2001 is Saturday, February 3rd. That
will be again out at Lake Ann Park. A lot of the items will remain the same with kind of the focus being
the ice fishing contest, among other types of activities. I did get after I completed this item for the packet,
we did get Chamber approval for the sponsoring of the ice fishing contest again. That's not a problem.
Again for 2001 so, is there any ideas the commission would like to pursue for additional schedule of events
or any other types of activities for Feb Fest?
Howe: I'll drill holes again.
Franks: The sliding hill was great. I don't know if they've ever considered, and how much work it would
be to make it more like a course down the hill. I don't know if that's ever been thought of.
Ruegemer: I think one of our maintenance workers has done that on a personal level on that hill before,
yeah.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Franks: On that hill.
Ruegemer: Depending on how much snow we've had but we certainly can take a look at it.
Berg: Could we look at the possibility of combining some of the prizes and maybe not having quite as
many drawings? Maybe make it a little bit more worthwhile to win.
Lash: More similar to the 4th of July.
Ruegemer: Have bigger types of prizes?
Lash: Do it every 5 minutes or something instead of every, what was it supposed to be before every 30
seconds. It's too labor intensive.
Berg: Well I remember there being some disappointed folks that, on I won this. Well not that they have
any choice anyway but a bobber on a string or something is maybe not as memorable. Those are the only
two fishing terms I know so. I suppose a Rapala would be nice.
Lash: A leeder.
Berg: A leeder and a sinker.
Franks: Is the radio station could to do the emceeing again this year?
Ruegemer: You know I've been thinking about that. I know they changed formats again.
Howe: They did. They're Spanish now I think.
Ruegemer: So I would imagine, I have not made contact this year for the event. I'm not sure if our contact
is still there for anymore. If that is worth investigating. I thought they did a great job. It was fun to have
them.
Lash: Personally I preferred Fred.
Berg: But it's a better range. They have a bigger audience.
Lash: I don't know, you've got pretty good pipes. You carried a long ways.
Berg: They get it over the aim-aves.
Ruegemer: Fred, you might want to dust off`your mic.
Berg: I'll find my white hat. I'll be teaching ancient history then too so the Palapenecian lecture will be
ready.
Lash: In Spanish if necessary. How is the process of finding a replacement for Tracy?
Ruegemer: It has completed as of 5:30 tonight.
Lash: Someone has been offered the position?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Ruegemer: Yes, and accepted. I don't know if you know, if you've met Cory Pane. He was our intem.
Not really an intem. More of a kind of summer, started in June here and has worked all the way through
for, well since about June 1st.
Lash: Was there a different Cory too? Or has there just been one Cory?
Ruegemer: One Cory.
Lash: Okay, then I know which one.
Ruegemer: He helped out with the 4"~ of July and helped out with a number of different things. The 5K
race. Really kind of stepped up after Tracy had taken the other position. He stepped up and filled her
shoes and really is coordinating basically all aspects of the Halloween party and different programs that
she had kind of established and he saw through and has really proved that he's going to do a good job with
us so we had offered him the position tonight and he accepted so.
Lash: Pass on our congratulations to Cory.
Ruegemer: And that was out of 91 applications so. We interviewed 13. Second interviewed 6 and
narrowed the selection then from there so.
Lash: Hopefully Cory will be very happy.
Ruegemer: Yeah, we think he will.
2000/2001 Ice Rink Season.
Ruegemer: Thank you. The outdoor flooding again will start approximately whenever we have, last year
we opened December 26th and that was going 72 hours straight to get ice for that time. It really depends
on, I mean weather like this we're not going to be flooding ice rinks for quite a while. So kind ofkeep it
kind of as we need to kind of base this and we'll go as soon as we can. It's been so dam warm out lately
that we haven't really been able to flood until just before Christmas most of the time. The last 3 or 4 years
so. Hours of operation will remain the same. Warming houses. Basically we're going to have portable
trailers again this year at the same locations that we have in the past. You can kind of see where the
attendance numbers were that were included in your packet. We as a staffI think are going to kind of take
a look at the Chan Hills area. We've been relatively low on numbers. I certainly would be in favor of
keeping a rink there but I think this year will kind or make or break that park as far as having a portable
trailer at that location. We have invested dollars in the electricity and the light, that sort of thing but we'll
have to kind ofreassess that at the end of the season to see if that is a viable option for the future. But for
right now we still are planning on having a warming house there. And also at the other locations that are
stated in the report.
Lash: Rice Marsh Lake has a warming house?
Ruegemer: No.
Lash: Oh. Isn't that what the stars are supposed to indicate?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Ruegemer: Yes, and that is not correct. So there's only, there are 5 wanning houses in town. If you look
at kind of the coverage sheet for rinks. We have, we're dotted pretty, fairly pretty decent in the city.
We're obviously adding Round House Park. We've added one more in that location and the Minnewashta
rink as well so.
Karlovich: Last year there was at least a pleasure rink at Pheasant Hills Park. Do we have any numbers
on that? On the usage there.
Ruegemer: The pleasure rinks are somewhat hard to gauge. We can do that certainly by maintenance.
The maintenance can pretty much tell who's been there and who hasn't been there. If it's getting used. As
far as hard numbers for pleasure rinks, it might be hard to gauge that but we certainly can tell if it's being
used.
Lash: Was that a city rink?
Karlovich: Last year I kind of pushed for it and some of the neighbors in my area were thankful but I don't
know how well it actually got used. But it was kind of, that would be you know north...
Ruegemer: We can do that again. That's not that big a deal.
Karlovich: I think we should add it again until we have some data that it's not being used.
Lash: And the guys that flood can provide us with that data because they go to flood and there's no marks
in, right? So they can kind of keep track for us.
Ruegemer: Sure can.
Lash: Great. Anything else on ice? Anyone?
2000 Tree Lighting Ceremony.
nd
Ruegemer: FYI again. The event is Saturday, December 2 this year. I think we've found a tree, but
we're still always looking to see if anybody else has a fairly large holiday tree in their yard that they'd like
to have removed. Or if you know of anybody.
Lash: I'll just ask the obvious question. Why don't we just have a designated tree that's growing? Isn't
there a tree growing anywhere around in town that can just be that designated city Christmas tree?
Hoffman: It used to be down there.
Ruegemer: Yeah, down by the clock tower.
Lash: Instead of cutting one down and hauling it around.
Ruegemer: Basically we don't cut down trees just to cut down trees. It's for road projects or when the tree
has to be removed anyway. That's really where we get these types of trees so. Kind of the main focus, or
one of the main focuses of the tree lighting ceremony, they wanted to have it kind of more center,
downtown park for the future which that area here.
Lash: Which is where? It's out by the clock tower?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Hoffman: Right here.
Lash: Oh, right here.
Ruegemer: And why we don't plant a permanent tree here, because a lot of other activities as far as youth
sports or the 4th of July celebration.
Lash: How about, aren't there any decent pine trees up on the other side?
Hoffman: Right out in front, the visibility. We're not going to cut a tree down that was not going anyway
so this all started because there was a tree available. Berquist had a tree that he wanted out of his yard so
they said let's move it right up here dead center City Hall so we've done that now for about 3 years. And
we have a tree that we have to cut down for the park maintenance facility so it's going anyway.
Berg: So if a resident sometime has a tree that they want to donate, they can do that and the city will do
it?
Hoffman: Yep, sure.
Lash: Take out the stump too?
Hoffman: No. The future plan, if we would, incorporated this little event wants to continue to incorporate
a tree out here as a part of the future City Center Park, or Plaza. Whatever you would call it, but right now
it doubles as ballfields so.
Berg: Maybe we can think of planting something when it gets set up there so they won't be able to do
ballfields anymore.
Ruegemer: That's certainly our, we didn't do anything down here in the summer this year.
Lash: Okay. Anybody else have anything on the tree lighting?
Ruegemer: We'll have Santa Claus again up here. I've already been in contact with the North Pole and
the contract has been signed for Santa so.
Hoffman: On a side note, if anyone shows any interest in the Lake Lucy holiday display, that's causing a
lot of neighborhood flack so there's a meeting taking place about that.
Lash: Because of all the traffic?
Hoffman: Traffic, yeah. Public safety concems. That's the debate that's going on so if you want to get
involved, now's your chance.
Lash: Okay.
Franks: Where is that taking place?
Hoffman: Where is that taking place?
Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Franks: Yeah, with what body?
Hoffman: Well I know he had a neighborhood meeting that generated some issues and I think those letters
went directly to the City Council. Yeah, they're taking a look at a variety of options. Road signs. You
know flashing signs. Permanent barricades down the center of the, down the center of Lake Lucy. One of
those portable concrete jersey barriers so they can't cross back and forth. The concem is obviously the
safety of people that park and get out of their cars and start crossing Lake Lucy. And now he has started to
send out invitations which makes it somewhat of a public display and again zoning regulations, those sort
of things so. Once you start sending invitations to your display, it becomes more than just a holiday
Christmas display.
Karlovich: My kids think it's the Christmas house.
Hoffman: Sure. Oh everybody does. Absolutely. But there are some valid concems with it as well.
Berg: I personally think it's not all it's cracked up to be. Yeah, we could move to number one if we could
outlaw this guy somehow.
Hoffman: Just a side note.
Lash: Okay, thanks Todd.
SELF SUPPORTING PROGRAMS:
2000 ADULT SUMMER SOFTBALL EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: A lot of it's the same old, same old but what was new this year is we combined women's
leagues with the City of Eden Prairie and that was really a fantastic program this year. It was fun working
with Bob Lanzia over at the city of Eden Prairie. The teams enjoyed it immensely. We really tried to
break teams out into kind of the same competition levels and had very good responses from players in both
communities. I think they enjoyed playing over there and Eden Prairie enjoyed playing over here so it
kind of was kind of a shot of new life in the women's program and it was great to see. Hopefully we can
build upon that in the future. But you know we did increase slightly in teams this year which was a good
sign. Hopefully we can keep increasing but we'll see how that works out in the future but a lot of it is just
broken down in general comments that we have received from evaluations and the financial report. That is
2000 summer, and not 1999.
2000 ADULT FALL SOFTBALL EVALUATION.
Ruegemer: ...program. The only thing that's different is double headers and teams seem to enjoy that
and we always send a team up to the State Toumament and they did fairly well again this year up there so
other than that.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Lash: We've got the Rec Center report which is pretty self explanatory. I know that we requested the
update on the child care financial status and that looks like we're still running in the black so that's good,
right?
Hoffman: Correct. Yeah, Councilman Senn asked about it last night. We had a budget presentation and I
informed them that we are into the positive.
Lash: Okay. Does anybody else have questions or comments on the Rec Center report?
Moes: Real quick on the financial status of the child care. Do we know, this goes back I think to our
original, or our initial conversation. The revenues from punch card sales, how many of those are still
outstanding. Is that revenue is generated upon the sale of the punch card, correct? And then do we know
of that how much is still out there for use?
Hoffman: Of all the punch cards that are sold?
Lash: But that can't all equate to the child care because the punches are the same for anything.
Ruegemer: Well we have separate punch cards.
Lash: Oh, for child care?
Ruegemer: Yes.
Lash: Oh, I thought it was...
Karlovich: We're on a cash accounting basis anyway. Accrual.
Ruegemer: Those are separate.
Hoffman: I'll ask Susan about that. If that's something she tracks. How many cards get lost. Never show
up again.
Moes: That's fine.
Hoffman: She's also continuing to work on, when we talked about raising the rates you asked about how
we thought that was going to affect, so she's working on that report.
Franks: Good, thank you.
SENIOR CENTER REPORT.
Lash: And we've got our Senior Center report which is pretty self explanatory. Anybody have anything
on that?
Howe: Are they giving flu shots at the Senior Center?
Hoffman: Yes.
Ruegemer: November 21
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Howe: They have the vaccine?
Ruegemer: I'm sorry?
Howe: They have their vaccine?
Ruegemer: I believe so.
Howe: It's been really short I guess.
Lash: Yeah, we couldn't get it.
Howe: Okay, just thought I'd ask.
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Lash: Anyone have anything they'd like to add or ask about this? Where did all of the trees come, oh.
Never mind. It says right on there where they came from.
Hoffman: Have you seen those? Have the commissioners seen them?
Lash: Some. So did we buy those?
Hoffman: Yes. Purchased them, balled and burlap trees and moved...
Lash: So were the tree choices from original plans or did you choose them or who chose which.
Hoffman: Species or locations?
Lash: Both.
Hoffman: The location was chosen by basically that master plan so like the master plan for Round House
Park, or through citizen inquiry. And then the species were chosen by Dean. Some areas are more suited
for certain types of trees. I think he picked a nice cross section. I don't know if you noticed the trees up
here were replaced by the skate park and those, that entire row of maples that has been dying over time so
there's some root disease in that boulevard so they replaced those with other trees.
Lash: Under Carver Beach Park, is that going to adequately fill the request of the neighborhood?
Hoffman: It did not match their specific request but I think it probably satisfies...
Franks: Just a question on the trail overlays. Because someone asked that question. The expected life of
the bituminous trail is 10-15 years, right?
Hoffman: Long term, probably 20-25.
Franks: 20-25. Is that with overlay or without?
Hoffman: With overlays. About every 6 years.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Franks: With overlays about every 6 years.
Hoffman: The overlay, it oxidizes. Evaporates out. The rocks start being exposed. Then you start
jeopardizing the integrity of the section. It also is not as pleasant. It's rough to walk on so, when you
overlay it.
Franks: Okay. So we're looking about doing overlays on trails every 5 to 6 years.
Hoffman: Yeah, 6 to 8 years. 5 to 8 years. Depending on, if they're in a high sun exposure area that...
sub-base. Those type of things. And sub-base really affects the longevity. So like what I would call the
wetland trails around the O'Shaughnessy wetland are not going to last as long as the trails on Kerber
Boulevard.
Lash: Okay, anyone else?
ADMINISTRATIVE:
NATIONAL RECREATION AND PARK CONGRESS AND EXPOSITION (VERBAL).
Hoffman: I was in Phoenix, well actually Liz and I attended the National Park and Recreation Convention
in Phoenix. I've had that put in the budget for over 10 years but I've never taken the opportunity to go.
One year we did sign up to go to Tampa or, and then the hurricane hit so we backed out at the last moment.
They had 6,000 delegates show up into town and they sent everybody home so. National trends that they
talked about focused on senior citizens which they're no longer calling senior citizens throughout the
country because the baby boomers as they age, people of age 55 and 60 do not consider themselves seniors
but they will participate in programming if you provide it and so centers are being changed. The label is
being changed. The thing that, the difficulty in doing that is politicians like the label senior citizen
because it's good for campaigns. It's good for politicking and so we need to start changing that. There's
some resistance to that across the country but it's a huge market and if you can figure out how to provide
services for them, I don't care if it's public services or private services, it's a big future market.
Berg: What do we like to be called, did they say?
Hoffman: Adult activity centers they're calling them.
Berg: Okay.
Lash: Mature?
Hoffman: Mature adult activity centers. Tennis courts, they spent halfa day in the tennis court and tennis
court program. Nationally tennis courts are going back to clay surface due to the fact that they now have,
if you think of a big old cookie sheet divided into quadrants, that's what they put undemeath the clay court
now and the water wicks up from that pan of water. It wets the surface. The big challenge to a clay court
is keeping it wet. Those who put in clay court, cities, somebody quoted I have 130 asphalt courts and 18
clay courts and the clay courts are never empty compared to the 130.
Berg: Because it's a slower game.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Hoffman: Slower game. Softer surface. And nicer feel. If you do have problems with the surface, you
can fix it from above. You don't have to, asphalt has huge problems in any climate, not just the climate
here in the Midwest so. They talked a lot about adding longevity to your courts. You can never repair a
cracked asphalt tennis court but you can add to the longevity so we've done that here. Finlay Brothers,
Tennis West recommended what about 8 years ago when we invested $25,000-$30,000 in these courts.
We should have ripped them out at that time but we put that money in. Cracks are back. We requested the
school district if you recall but they did not want to participate in replacement so they hired the Tennis
Court Doctor to go back and fix those courts up. Nationally trend away from asphalt to clay and we
leamed some other methods that we can use to add years of life to our tennis courts.
Lash: Where would be our next potential court that we could try that in if we decided that we wanted to
try that?
Hoffman: I'm not sure that we have a location where we would build new tennis courts. We talked about
Bandimere but it's not a very. The other issue in tennis courts is that, they described them as the caged
courts or the gorilla cages. People don't go to gorilla cages to play tennis and go home anymore. They
want an atmosphere which is, it's a social game. They want the shade. Amenities. Picnic tables, benches
and those type of things and currently our system does not provide a real pleasant experience. We offer
caged tennis courts and the folks that are in the business of providing these tennis courts, they have a park.
We would consider a miniature park just outside the tennis courts so these people show up and they
socialize in this miniature park outside the tennis court. They play their game. Afterwards they have some
social time again. Again, you know it's the older tennis player that are continuing to play the game and so
they see, when you build a tennis court, you're not just building a piece of asphalt with a fence around it.
You need some extra amenities to your court to make it appealing.
Berg: Meadow Green could be a possibility. Don't we go to looking to repair it? You've got obviously
the amenities there that are a little bit better, if we ever get a trail around there a little bit.
Hoffman: With that gazebo right next to it.
Lash: How about Lake Ann? Didn't we take out the courts there?
Hoffman: The one court still remains at Lake Ann. And the road will just barely go right around it. The
tennis courts at the Rec Center, due to the initial construction are not going to be a very pleasant court to
play on. They're not pleasant to play on today and it's only going to get worse. They're sinking. You'll
recall that conversation a couple years back. And you know we created a temporary fix which is a drain so
you've got a basement drain out in the middle of a tennis court and really what I think will provide a court
for is some of the high school, middle school and then those who really would like to play tennis are out
there...more pleasant tennis experience. They're going to the private clubs. Some ofthe other public
clubs for tennis. Other sections, I've got some handouts upstairs. I'll include them in your next packet.
Some interesting things. Top 10 trends across the United States. The experts say we're leaning away from
a material age and back to where the value is in the experience. Especially for males in society so they
think that recreation and experiences in public recreation will continue to grow. Because we typically
don't sell products, we sell experiences, and so they see a trend in that area.
Lash: What are the top 107
Hoffman: I've got them. I'll dump them into your packet.
Karlovich: Is there anything like skate parks were missing that tumed into huge successes...
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Hoffman: ...there were probably a dozen skate park manufacturers there. You could see the envy on the
playground manufacturer's faces because the playground booths are empty and those skate park booths are
packed. It's a nationwide phenomenon and everybody now says the concept, what you build them out of,
screws and wood, steel and skate lights and so it's, as the market continues to evolve, people are buying
concrete ramps. Steel ramps and going away from an economy based skate parks so.
Karlovich: Does anyone have an indoor skate park?
Hoffman: Sure.
Karlovich: Are they as successful as the outdoor?
Hoffman: I think more private indoor skate parks throughout the country than public. But you know the
future in the metropolitan area, I don't know that they're all making money. They typically charge
because you have to build a building, pay rent. Two ladies in Plymouth they did that and they went out of
business...
Ruegemer: Yeah, it was up on 55 and 494.
Hoffman: It was a bad business decision. Two mom's of skaters put $60,000 of ramps on their credit cards
and rented a building and went belly up. Not everything is successful.
Lash: Anything else? Okay.
GORRA PROPOSAL.
Hoffman: Pretty self explanatory. There's a dictated voice mail from Wayne SaymesoftheDNR. Anote
from Jim that he would favor using the park if we could do that. Then there's some documents from the
70's and the 80's talking about the purchase of Lake Ann using the LAWCON dollars. I know in one of
these pages it refers to, cannot convert use of facilities. The local unit shall not at any time convert any
property or facility acquired pursuant to this agreement other than a public outdoor recreation use without
the prior approval of the Director and Mr. Saymes thought that it would not be worth our effort to make an
application because we would seek favorable...
Lash: Okay, anybody have?
Howe: Well I just think we tried to do the right thing. We explored it and I don't know how much sway
we'll have with whatever we decide to do with that land but, you know we had to explore that and we did.
It's just not going to go any further.
Hoffman: Two different applications. Two different, if you look at the dollar amounts, you know they
weren't huge at the time but people back then probably thought they were huge.
Berg: It doesn't hardly seem like we can lose, whatever he decides to do. The worse it's going to be, he's
going to leave it the way it is. The best is we'll get a course or a trail around the lake.
Lash: No, the worse is he'll develop it into 5,000 townhouses.
Franks: We get a trail.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Lash: We'll get a trail, yeah.
Howe: We'll still get some land.
Lash: Okay.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Lash: Does anybody have anything under there?
Howe: The kid with the recycling. Is that, I mean it's a good idea. Is that possible though? I didn't think
there was a way.
Hoffman: To separate it.
Howe: You know we have enough trouble with our trash cans being thrown around. I don't think you can
add more to it, unless you have somebody come and do it but.
Hoffman: After I sent this letter back out I wasn't aware but there is a park employee that is doing some
separating on his own so, that's the interim program...
Karlovich: And if we can't even afford decent garbage cans.
Lash: We did used to have just have blue ones, didn't we for recycling down there? I thought we had blue
cans that were for recycling.
Hoffman: I don't ever remember having separate cans.
Ruegemer: We had stickers in the July...
Hoffman: Yeah, stickers on the can probably saying, this refuse is later separated and recycled and that's
what the can man did. He dumped them out and resorted everything out.
Lash: Well we could have one or two designated cans. I would say Lake Ann would be the most obvious
place to have one.
Franks: Well I guess that's what I was thinking with the concession there. You know that might be one of
the few places that would be worth it. In Hennepin Parks they have separate receptacles for recycling.
Hoffman: Yep. And in talking to the folks from Hennepin Parks, it's obviously for, well it's to be good
stewards but they end up separating that. In talking to the maintenance folks...
Moes: What was the follow-up Todd on the skate park issue with Bruce?
Hoffman: Bruce?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Moes: Feik.
Lash: I think he's concemed about the language.
Moes: ...third page.
Hoff`man: Yep. I take at least a couple of those calls a week. We talk about, typically they're all in favor
of the park but they brought their children up and most often that's their younger children and they witness,
or hear the language that takes place there and they see somebody smoking a cigarette and they see some
rough housing and, but it's typically it's a first time experience and then they sort of kind of get the
snapshot and they call and we talk about it. We talk about all the options. Potential options. You know
the idea of a club or an organization to help monitor. The idea of putting a staff`person up there. The idea
of hiring a community service officer to work with those youth. Just when I drove in this evening, there
was all of the above. Misconduct. Smoking. Under age smoking. The language taking place and I talked
to them briefly about it before I stepped in. It's very popular but there are some issues that some parents
take offense to. Most of them call and they say, I don't want the skate park to go away and I don't know
what to do about it but here are my concerns.
Moes: What is the status with the bike issue there? Bikes allowed? Bikes not allowed?
Hoff`man: No, bikes aren't allowed. It seems to have gotten better. It's very easy to enforce. We see it
right out our windows during the day and we go over and chat with them but during the evening they're
probably there on a more consistent basis.
Moes: Am I missing it then? Is there a sign that says "No Bikes Allowed" someplace out there?
Hoff`man: Yes, in the rules it's highlighted.
Moes: Where? I mean is there the big.
Hoffman: The big rule signs. Have you seen them? In the back of the two large pieces of equipment. The
black and red letters.
Moes: Is that recent?
Ruegemer: Month, month and a half.
Moes: Okay. Maybe it was a month or so ago I was out there and trying to have the bike discussion with a
couple of kids and of course they look at you and you know what their first thought was with their fingers
but I mean, because I didn't see the signs at that time so I'm like, well if they were there, that would
certainly make it a lot easier.
Hoff`man: Typically when these individuals call, they have one thing that they're really hot on so one's hot
on language. One's hot on smoking. One's hot on bikes. And they all want this individual sign. I want a
sign that says no, it's all you know we can't start putting up individual signs. It's all on there and some of
the parents feel empowered to take charge ofthe situation. Other's don't. So somebody wanted a sign that
told them they were in charge. Parents are in charge.., enforce rules.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Howe: Well don't skaters, I mean if you were out there skating and a biker came, don't they patrol
themselves?
Hoff`man: A little bit.
Moes: I tried to watch it the one day and it just so happened that two kids on a bike were two of the bigger
kids on the park so therefore there was, and I think if there would have been a little bit of oversight there,
which you know I had done and then there wasn't a sign that day so I was just curious if that had gone up.
Just so that there is something to point to. I think it would have been helpful.
Lash: So can we request, are there any public safety officers left or not?
Hoff`man: Community service officers. We've requested on numerous occasions, I've requested on
numerous occasions to have the deputies spend more time over there but it's...
Lash: I mean even if they just took the route, if they're going to come up here to park, just to take that
route through just to be visible could have some kind of a little impact.
Karlovich: Are we going to have any equipment that bikers can use?
Hoff`man: That's up to you.
Lash: That was that other guy's letter in here. And we had the request down at the Bandimere's grand
opening. Remember that guy talked to me about that.
Hoff`man: I thought about filling in hockey rinks with BIVLX bike stuff`because during the summer that rink
is not being used... But if you go to that extent, then you're a much bigger program and you would have to
charge and staff`it and so it's kind of like, at what point do you just cut it oft'? If we put a BIVLX rally
course inside that hockey rink, then you'd be ...and need to charge and you need to have somebody
watching over it. It would be very popular. You watch ESPN, these youth contests are the biggest thing in
youth sports. They use the same kind of equipment. You would say Saturday is their skate day, and you
can let them have it but you can't mix the two uses at the same time.
Lash: And the guy, the gentleman at Bandimere who talked to me, had said something about just basically
hauling in dirt and pushing it around. They make that into their own.
Hoff`man: You could haul dirt into that hockey rink during the summer and haul it out in the fall.
Franks: What about hauling dirt into Herman Field and just letting it sit there?
Hoff`man: Now there's asking for trouble. It's just completely isolated. That's the biggest, you talk to
these people. Folks who are, communities who are putting the skate parks, the biggest problem is when
they put it in a location that's isolated.
Lash: How about the Rec Center? Then you'd have, well you're talking about the hockey rink here but if
it was at the hockey rink at the Rec Center?
Hoff`man: The Rec Center, both are surfaced and so they're much more desirable surfaces to skate on.
Lash: How about the tennis courts?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Berg: How about the tennis court at Lake Ann?
Hoffman: Tennis court is fairly small. It's a difficult siting issue is what it is. I mean.
Karlovich: I don't know if bringing in dirt into the hockey rink is even such a bad idea in the summer
time.
Lash: But you were thinking here and that would get too, there'd be too much going on wouldn't it?
Hoff`man: It might put it over the top. I mean Principle Merchant would just as soon not have this level of
activity, so then you double it and you critics might become so outspoken that you fight a losing battle.
Berg: Perhaps mention to Principle Merchant that perhaps the district would like to help us put it
someplace else. This is the only spot the City has available. Let the record show I was not smiling at that
request.
Hoff`man: .... there are people out there that would just as soon not have a skate park.
Lash; Okay. Anybody have anything else that we didn't cover?
Ruegemer: Just Halloween details, and assignments. And whoever needs a costume, we have costumes.
So we can discuss it after the meeting...
Lash: Anything else? Anyone?
Hoff`man: We didn't get a chance to chat about Pulte.
Lash: We did, you just weren't here.
Hoff`man: Their timing is off`and I believe they're at the Park Commission next week and then we'll see.
Lash: At who?
Hoff`man: Planning Commission, and then we'll see them in November so moving forward.
Lash: This may be seen as a dumb question but why would they go to Planning before Park?
Hoff`man: Just the timing of the meetings. If they would have been ready this week, we would have had
them before that. Building permits are down. Single family permits are down to about 100 or less. That's
the lowest rate since the early 80's. So single family is down but commercial and multi-family is up so
we've had one of the best years on record for park and trail acquisition and development fees. So I think
we're up over $600,000 in a single year which is some big dollars. And development's what? What's the
development?
Ruegemer: CSM.
Hoff`man: CSM and then the stuff`over by DataServ so I've signed off`on a few $60,000 commercial/
industrial fees so that ordinance pays ofl~
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting October 24, 2000
Lash: Okay, is that it? Is there a motion to adjoum?
Moes moved, Karlovich seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted
in favor and the meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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