PRC 2000 01 25CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 25, 2000
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Fred Berg, Jim Manders, Mike Howe, Rod Franks, Jay
Karlovich, and David Moes
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent; Tracy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor
ELECT 2000 CHAIRPERSON AND VICE-CHAIRPERSON.
Lash: Discussion anyone? Suggestions? I'm willing to relinquish the job to anyone that's willing
to have a promotion.
Karlovich: I like our current chairperson.
Berg: I move we reappoint Jan as Chair.
Karlovich: I second.
Berg moved, Karlovich seconded to appoint Janet Lash as Chairperson of the Park and
Recreation Commission for 2000. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Lash: Okay, we'll move onto Vice Chair. Nominations for Vice Chair.
Karlovich: I would nominate Fred.
Howe: I would second.
Karlovich moved, Howe seconded to appoint Fred Berg as Vice Chairman of the Park and
Recreation Commission for 2000. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Approved as presented.
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: None.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Karlovich moved, Howe seconded to approve the Minutes of the
Park and Recreation Commission Meeting dated December 14, 1999 as presented. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
DAVE HUFFMAN MEMORIAL 5K RACE~ HOWARD ANDERSON AND KEN
GARVIN.
Ruegemer: Chair Lash, we have some representatives from the 5K Race Committee here tonight.
They really are here to inform the commission kind of the status of the race. We've been meeting
for several months now. You see the race forms are completed at this point and really things are
really progressing nicely. So really without further ado, who's going to speak, Ken? Ken and
Howard. Figured they'd kind of give you kind of a brief overview of the 5K race and kind of get
you up to speed at this point.
Ken Garvin: Number one, I'd like to thank each of you for getting us on at the last minute. I
know Jerry or Rod or Mike, one of you called and got us on like at a very, like I say, last minute
notice. But I gave you all copies of the 5K run application that we've been working on. Now
these applications are open to criticism but really the only thing left missing on here is the grand
prize drawings which we're in the process of securing. And I guess we've broken it down into
age groups. We'll give an overall prize which all the applications are eligible based on the bottom
portion being put in for a random drawing. Each age group will have a male and female winner
and a prize associated with it. We are also going to have a race berry jam put on the race course.
The professional race organizers and let them bring their expertise to the race. And they'll supply
things such as the posting of the results, the timing, intemet posting for the application, and all at a
minor cost of $250. But the name of the race of course is outlined on the application as the Dave
Huffman Memorial 5K Run. Sponsors of the race would be the Americlnn, the Houlihan's
Restaurant and the City of Chanhassen. Americlnn's parent company, Northcott Company is
currently constructing our corporate headquarters here in Chanhassen right on the other side of the
foot bridge, so we're going to be here a long time and we want to make this an annual event. It's
a very good cause. Dave brought a lot of nice things to the City of Chanhassen and we're really
excited. I know with Mike's help, Jerry's help, Rod's help, like Jerry mentioned, we've been
working on it for I don't know, 5-6 months currently. So we've been at it for a long time but we
want to do it and we want to do it right and hopefully we can increase it from a 5K run over the
next couple of years or next year or so, if there's good participation, to expand it to a 10K run.
But at this time I just wanted to turn it over to Howard. He can touch upon a few other details
that we've had completed at this time.
Howard Anderson: I'm Howard Anderson. I can't remember if Ken introduced himself but
we're all from the Northcott Company. This is Susan Jesperson. She's our General Manager of
our Americlnn right across the, right by Highway 5 there. Basically I just wanted to update you
on a couple of different parts of the race and let you know at what point we are. We've been in
contact as Ken mentioned with a company called Race Berry Jam. The gentleman that we've
secured to organize a lot of the actual running of the race and the posting of the times, that type of
thing, does it also for the Excelsior 5K run for the 4th of July so it's a well seasoned veteran and
as Ken mentioned, it's such a nominal fee, he real does the job for the love of the race. It seems a
though a lot of things are kind of coming together very nicely. The timing is one thing. We've
got a few people here, as Ken has mentioned already that have a love of running and their
expertise and desire to put on a race timed up very nicely with our desire to put on an event.
Obviously the down side is the tie in to an event, or to a person who's unfortunately passed on,
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
but hopefully in memoriam this will help raise awareness for the Boy Scouts which is one group
that will be receiving some funding due to revenue generation off of the race. We are planning
inviting a lot of the local community to be involved with either a variety of aspects of the race.
The local business community especially with the Chamber being involved. Coordinating, they're
doing packets of coupons, that type of thing to be given out to each and every racer. And we're
hopefully going to have some pretty good prizes for the group. So far funding has been pretty
much secured between Americlnn, Houlihan's and hopefully some support from the City as I
know it. Or at least the Park and Rec support as far as that goes. I'm not sure exactly how that
works out but I know Mike and Rod and everybody here so. But we're hoping to have a total of
about 14 different prizes and one big grand prize and really have a very good event and a
successful event. And at this point if Susan has any.
Susan Jesperson: I just have a couple things. I think this will give great visibility to the City of
Chanhassen. Bring a lot of the local area in also. One thing we will be doing, the Americlnn will
be, in Chanhassen here, will be the registration point. We will also have a voice mail that people
can call in and get information about the race so that will be very accessible to them and I think
it's going to be with all the cooperation of the area and of the local businesses, it will be very
successful and something that can turn into maybe Gramma's Marathon at one time. Thank you.
Howard Anderson: Just to summarize, I guess we didn't mention upon the date. It was
September 16th, which is a Saturday and we'd start the race at about 9:00 and with that we do
have cooperation and secured cooperation I guess with the Carver County Sheriflk Be very
minimal I guess to any traffic inconveniences. Jerry has also secured transportation free of charge
from Southwest Transit and what our goal is, is to have the runners meet over at the Americlnn,
St. Hubert parking area and then we'll shuttle the racers over to Lake Susan and then they can
start the race and they can put their clothes or sweats in a duffle bag. We'll shuttle that back.
Have a nice little tagging area where the runners can pick up their bags. We're also getting some
nice cooperation with some of the other companies in Chan as far as donations for food and juice
and water and things like that so, without further ado, if any of you all have any questions we'd
sure would like to answer them at this particular time.
Lash: Okay. We'll open it up for commissioner comments. Should we start with you?
Howe: I just want to say on the record, you know thanks Jerry and the people from Americlnn/
Northcott. They've done a great job and as Rod and I have been saying for months, I mean
they're serious about pulling this off and doing it right and I think you can see some of that now.
Other than that, you've got eight months to train.
Lash: Okay, thanks. David.
Moes: This looks great. Appreciate the time and effort you put into this. This is excellent.
Lash: Rod.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Franks: I have just a question. Is today the day that we would make a recommendation to the
Council to approve and okay the race going on or, that would happen today? Okay. I'm just
thinking that according to the timing, it would be helpful to get that up if we would like to
approve it, up to the Council as soon as possible so they can have, start distribution of the race
forms.
Lash: Okay. Fred.
Berg: Any idea what kind of numbers we're talking about the first year? Do we have any
handle?
Ken Garvin: We're thinking somewhere around 300. As an estimate. It could be higher, but I
think that's a conservative number.
Berg: Okay. Thanks for your help.
Lash: Jay.
Karlovich: My only comments, I'm looking forward to it and I can handle the 5K. Once it
becomes a 10K, I don't know ifI can quite make that.
Lash: Jim.
Manders: Relatively speaking of the Excelsior run, do you know what kind of numbers they
have?
Ken Garvin: I think they're over a thousand.
Howe: Yeah, they've cut off2 They've had to stop. One of the race proponents from Excelsior
sits in on our committee meetings on occasion. That's an old line race, is that 20 years old or 15
years old? It's got a long history and they have to shut out entries.
Lash: How big of a one is that?
Howe: That's a 10K.
Ken Garvin: They also have expanded it too, they have.., and all kinds of difl'erent little things
associated with it. We just wanted to keep it simple our first year so that we do a professional job
and then we can expand upon it as, you know as we get a little bit more seasoned.
Manders: Rick is the person that you're saying is, kind of knows all.
Ken Garvin: Rick Ruckter?
Manders: Yeah.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Ken Garvin: Yes. We've already been in touch with him and I think the cost was $250.
Manders: And then this last question, this race information call. Who is that number?
Howard Anderson: That will be the Americlnn Hotel number.
Manders: The 934-...
Ken Garvin: All of our staff will seasoned on how to connect calls and we'll have a voice mail
message tied in with the motel phone system directly responsible to.
Manders: Do you get a discount if you stay in the motel or something?
Ken Garvin: Oh I'm sure we can work something out.
Lash: You're not going to be able to make it home?
Manders: Well we're just trying to draw in more you know.
Lash: I just have a couple of quick questions, and I think you just did a great job too and thanks
so much for all your hard work. This is going to be a great event and to kick something off like
this is just really exciting for all of us. I know when we initially talked about this and the idea of
having it be a Dave Huffman Memorial Run we talked about the possibility of some day maybe
we'd be tying in, maybe getting some Vikings support or little, you know tie in there and KFAN
too. So I didn't know if you guys had looked into that or you're thinking you might want to do it
at some other time?
Ken Garvin: We didn't want to go to that extreme yet. We wanted to get the approval process
done and that's part of the reason why we wanted to meet with you on such kind of short notice.
Some of the local press has kind of been biting at the bit. They've heard about it and they go, can
we print it in the paper yet and we said no, not yet. It's not official. We haven't got the final
blessing to go forward so as soon as we get that from you all and then the City, then we're free to
start exploring those possibilities.
Lash: Okay, that sounds good. The Vikings could use a little positive PR right about now.
Berg: Well if you happen to follow him, and I'm sure you have, Randy Shaver of Channel 11
used to be real close. He'd be a real good source for publicity and help too.
Ken Garvin: Yeah, Dave's wife has made I guess a couple people aware that she would be the
starter of the race. And she would hopefully.
Lash: Okay. Can I just say one thing, and maybe this is the way you want it to be. I'm just sort
of a nit picker for typing so if it's a typo I want to point it out to you. If it's right, tell me I'm
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
reading it wrong. But in the disclaimer at the bottom in the second line where it says that I am
medically able and, is it supposed to be properly? Trained or is it supposed to be properly
trained?
Ken Garvin: Probably properly.
Lash: Okay, that's what I thought. But I thought maybe it was properly like they knew what to
do around the properly. Second line. I am very much a nit picker... Okay, anyone else have
anything they'd like to ask? Okay. Hearing no further comments, can we get a motion to
approve? Yeah, one of you guys do it.
Howe: I move that we approve the Dave Huffman Memorial 5K Run in the planning phase and
authorize the race committee to continue planning it and beginning to market it and send it up to
City Council. Is that kind of a catch all?
Lash: We recommend to the City Council.
Howe: Yeah, the City Council that we're going to go through with this and continue to work on
it.
Lash: Okay, is there a second?
Moes: Second.
Howe moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that
the City Council approve staff and the race committee continuing to plan for the Dave
Huffman Memorial 5K Run. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
REQUEST FOR REZONING 13.41 ACRES FROM RSF~ RESIDENTIAL SINGLE
FAMILY TO PUD-R~ PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT-RESIDENTIAL~ A LAND
USE PLAN AMENDMENT TO CHANGE THE DESIGNATION OF LOW DENSITY
RESIDENTIAL TO MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL~ AND PRELIMINARY PLAT
TO SUBDIVIDE 13.41 ACRES INTO 30 LOTS~ MARSH GLEN.
Todd Hoffman presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: Can you trace with your finger on there, I'm a little thick tonight. I can't figure, that's
what's there now?
Hoffman: No. This is what would be built. What is here now Jan is up to the north. Up to the
north where it runs east and west across 101. And then we need to make this connection.
Lash: Okay. So it's going out of the development?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Hoffman: Yep, out of the development.
Lash: Okay, I get it now.
Hoffman: As a part of this development I'm recommending that they, the applicant go ahead and
construct this. Utilize the park and trail fees.
Lash: Okay, that's why I couldn't see it on the map.
Hoffman: Yep. It extends off the map so the construction would take place. Approximately
$48,000 are generated in park and trail fees. With no park needs in the area, I think it's wise to
go ahead and commit those funds generated to the construction of this trail and to ask that the
applicant design and build the trail connection to the north to allow their residents to get, gain
access to that trail system. The City would reimburse them through those park fees, and
depending on the applicant's desire, either in the front end or the back end... If you'd like to build
it, then we'll reimburse you. Or if you would like to go ahead and... Then this trail, they would
have to pay for the connector and the sidewalk. It's the applicant's berm as well.
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Steve Kroiss: ... I've been in this business quite a few years. This is one of the first times we've
mn across a situation because of the uniqueness of our product and the way we've set it on to the
land, that we actually are going to be well within the tree ordinance of the City's requirements.
And so we are not going to be, a minimum amount of disturbance is going to really happen into
this area. And just to set a few things straight. This plot here is still our own plot. We are going
to be moving the pond up along, out about right here, and this particular street is going to be
moved in like so. And so we're going to have very little impact as far as grading. We'll just be
grading more or less just for the trail itself. We don't have to touch any of the natural
environment there and that's really a plus to the type of product that we'll be putting up. Really I
don't have a lot more to say about it. One of the things that's a real benefit and happens here for
everybody is the way we, at our expense we're going to be joining this trail and the fact that
everybody really, the whole community back in this area gets to use this park.
Beth Andrews: We're also creating a whole conservation easement and all of that will be
outlotted to the City to protect the wetland in the area versus a single family development that will
be contained and under city regulations. We're donating that and creating an outlot for the city for
the conservation easement and everything to the north here.
Steve Kroiss: I'd like to add one other thing. We are going to more than exceed the landscape
requirements by the City per, as a per unit basis. By at least 3 or 4 times. We're going to do a
number of, you know this is designated a natural wetland. In truth we are actually even adding
more evergreens and trees into that existing area. So we're really high on this project and we
thank you for your time.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Okay, thanks Steve. We'll start at your end this time Jim. Do you have any questions or
comments?
Manders: Maybe I just didn't read very well but in terms of density in this area, I mean it says
single family so you're going to have whatever, what do you expect in terms of ownership?
Probably younger?
Steve Kroiss: We don't have a, it's basically geared towards empty nesters. This is a product
that's similar to a project we're doing in Eden Prairie off of Pioneer Trail called Settlers Ridge. I
don't know if you're familiar with that or not. And we're putting up a similar type product and
we're running empty nesters but yet we are getting a fair amount of single ladies. We're finding
that having the market situation between 30 and 40, 45 years old. But there's going to be very
few children involved in this. Most of the people will be older or without children.
Manders: Do you say in here what the price range is expected to be?
Steve Kroiss: The price range will be from basically about $250 and go to almost $400,000.
Lash: How many bedrooms? Most of them.
Steve Kroiss: We'll have two different products, three technically but as far as bedrooms, we'll
have one with a two bedroom on the main floor and we'll have one with a single bedroom on the
main floor. And they'll have possibilities to finish off lower levels and add two or additional, or
even some maybe four total.
Lash: So what is that typical square foot?
Steve Kroiss: Our smaller unit will probably in total square footage finished, up and down, will
probably be about 2,500-2,600 square feet. And our other product, the larger one will be
somewhere in that 2,800 square feet range.
Lash: Both floors so. So you're talking 1,200 to 1,400 square feet?
Steve Kroiss: That's correct.
Lash: Okay.
Manders: That's it.
Lash: Anything Jay?
Karlovich: The only comment I had, I was impressed with your landscape plan. I don't see
where you can fit in any more trees here. It looks very nice at least from a landscape point of
view.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Okay, Fred.
Berg: I would just echo the same thing about the landscape.
Lash: Me too. Rod, do you have anything?
Franks: Glad to see the pond's moved out towards 101 instead of the excavation near the.
Steve Kroiss: That's a real plus. I was for that from the very beginning.
Franks: And we'd expect I imagine that the trails to be constructed would be consistent with our
existing trail system. Follow those requirements as well.
Steve Kroiss: That is exactly right.
Franks: Well I just think it'd be great to give the people in Mission Hills connected up
conveniently to Rice Marsh Park.
Steve Kroiss: That is a real plus for the whole community really.
Franks: That's it for me, thanks.
Lash: Okay, Dave.
Moes: I may have missed this but are these free standing units or are they connected?
Steve Kroiss: Oh, I'm sorry. I have one of the, I'm glad you brought that up. One of the reasons
we've actually, I wanted to develop this as what I call detached villas.., but what happened in this
particular case, I ended up making some doubles.., product in Settlers Ridge and really the only
reason was because I wanted to preserve as much of this treed landscape and natural treed
environment here and it's going to work out pretty well. And with elevations and everything
we're going to be able to save a lot of the maples that are in that area. And it will be fairly close
to the home but that's alright. If we have to we're going to put a few retaining walls in a few of
these places to preserve them.
Moes: So is it just on the top that those are the twin homes and everything else are free standing?
Steve Kroiss: Yes, everything else would be the same as that...
Moes: Free standing units, okay. I was trying to tie up the plat we have and the picture here
because it certainly opens it up a lot when you've got the free standing so, okay. That's all I have.
It looks very nice.
Lash: Mike.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Howe: Just if everything went your way, when you start building?
Steve Kroiss: If everything goes according to... I would like to start early spring. We'll have
road restrictions. We have a barn to take down and some of that to happen. We have a manure
pile we have to remove because it was a horse facility before. And hopefully early spring we can
get this project going.
Howe: That's all I have.
Lash: Okay. Any other questions or comments from anyone? Okay, seeing no more jokes, so is
there a motion?
Manders: Can we make it as simple as recommending that we approve staff recommendation and
approve this proposal?
Lash: It could be that simple.
Manders: That's what mine is.
Berg: Second that.
Manders moved, Berg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend
that the City Council require the following conditions of approval regarding parks and
trails for Marsh Glen:
1. Collection of full park and trail fees per city ordinance.
The applicant dedicate by fee title a trail ouflot for the purpose of constructing the trails
designated on the attached map.
The applicant shall be responsible for the design, engineering, and construction of this
designated trail in it's entirety as a part of their public improvements. The City will
reimburse the applicant for all design, engineering, and construction costs associated with
the "city" trail. The applicant shall be responsible for all costs associated with the "trail
connector".
Bid documents for all phases of the trail construction shall be presented to the city's Park
and Recreation Director for approval prior to work being initiated.
All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Lash: Oh Todd, you have a question?
Hoffman: Just a clarification on item 2 it talks about a trail ouflot dedicated by fee rifle. It may
be an easement when it comes right down to it. Either or. We'll work out those details.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Okay, thanks.
Manders: A question for Todd, just for maybe future trail planning. You're talking about that
east side of Rice Marsh Lake. Is that whole lake intended to be a loop through? Would it be?
Hoffman: Sure.
Manders: And a lot of that easement, isn't that in place already because I've been down there.
It's like there's almost a trail or something green there already.
Hoffman: ... so as you leave this properly here and it goes around this platted area, Tigua, the
trail will follow a sewer line interceptor that comes through there and that sewer line is already in
place so you see the grading is nearly complete for the construction of a trail. Then down in this
area we have the two pieces of properly that were taken for Highway 212 right-of-way which are
currently paid for through the RALF acquisition. Right-of-way acquisition Loan Fund. And then
there's a missing piece in here that needs to be acquired. Once we acquire that missing piece, the
City of Chanhassen would have the wherewithal to make that connection all the way over, but
then we need to have an outlet for it in Eden Prairie and they will come around up the side and
connect onto Dell Road and connect all the way up around so you'll be able to do a loop of Rice
Marsh Lake.
2000 LAKE ANN PARK BEACH LIFEGUARD CONTRACT.
Ruegemer: The dates that the beach is planning on opening this year is June l0th and that will go
through August 27th this year. The percentage, the total program expense percentage stayed the
same this year at 29.53% that's charged the City of Chanhassen. The total lifeguard bill this year
would be $21,910.75 which is up about $500 to $700 from last year which is just the basic cost of
inflation that is itemized on Exhibit A. It will start tonight if the Park and Recreation does
approve the contract. It will need to go onto City Council for their approval as well so it's staffs
recommendation that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the agreement for the summer
lifeguard contract through Minnetonka Community Education and Services in the amount of
$21,910.75.
Lash: Okay, anyone have a question for Jerry on this?
Moes: Just for clarification, on Exhibit A is the 2000 budget versus the 1999 actual or.
Ruegemer: Those are the wrong ones. Yes, there was a 2000 Exhibit A and B. I don't know
why that got switched. But yes, there is the 2000 numbers. So there should be like $78-$79,000
for that.
Moes: Well the numbers, I mean on A and B seem to tie up to what you're total numbers are in
the memo are and that's why I just wondered.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Ruegemer: There was a 2000 swimming season budget though. I don't know what happened
with the pages.
Lash: Rod, did you have something too?
Franks: Well I was just looking, Lake Ann Beach versus Excelsior Beach. There's that much
more staffing hours at Lake Ann? Lifeguard hours. Just because of the more lifeguards on at a
time or?
Ruegemer: It's busier. There's a little bit more overlap at Lake Ann for lifeguards. There's
anywhere from 3 to 4 throughout the course of the day.
Hoffman: It's physically larger.
Franks: Right. Right.
Berg: Are you satisfied with the service we're getting? It's a safe beach?
Hoffman: ... national statistics say that lifeguards do not produce a safer beach.
Berg: I don't care what statistics... What does that really say when you say that? What does that
mean?
Lash: Just as many people drown at a lifeguarded beach as a non lifeguarded beach?
Hoffman: Correct. And just as many people are saved at a lifeguarded beach by bystanders as
are saved by lifeguards.
Lash: But they don't provide swimming lessons.
Hoffman: Correct.
Berg: And we also don't know how many more drowning there would be if the lifeguards
weren't there.
Hoffman: It's just those national, but the park you can talk about and that's why there's no
lifeguards at safe beaches anymore and those type of things.
Howe: I've seen them save somebody so I believe them.
Hoffman: Oh yeah. And we've had other people saved by bystanders too.
Lash: Well last year I know in the news they were reporting all over everywhere there was a
shortage and different public beaches were closing because they couldn't find lifeguards so
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
obviously some people think it's important enough to have lifeguards if they're willing to close
the beach if they don't have them.
Karlovich: It can't hurt.
Franks: I think our community expects that beach will be guarded and I personally think this is
like the best deal in town.
Lash: I think people value that.
Hoffman: I wasn't...
Karlovich: It was an interesting statistic.
Lash: Okay, so is there a motion to send this on.
Berg: So moved.
Lash: A second.
Howe: Second.
Berg moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission approve the
Agreement for Sunnner Lifeguard Services at Lake Ann Beach for 2000 as provided by
Minnetonka Conununity Education and Services. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
2000 4TM OF JULY FIREWORKS CONTRACT.
Peterson: Thanks Jan and commissioners. As you're aware, Melrose Pyrotechnics did the
fireworks last year and they've done it previous years. Based on what I worked with last year and
with the show, I'm recommending that we go with Melrose again. Again this will be needing
approval by the City Council. As you noted, the amount of the budget has been increased for
2000 at $20,000 so we'll be able to get a little more bang for our buck so to speak. But I would
recommend with what I saw last year, being the first one, I was impressed and they're very well
known for safety and making sure that things are appropriate and I think that's a big concern for
us here just to make, especially being at Lake Ann. With the wooded area so stafl~s
recommendation would be that you recommend to the council to approve this and then we'll move
forward with putting together the details of the show and that does take quite some time to do so
it's good to get a start on that.
Berg: We'll be happy to help with that too. In terms of, we all have recommendations for what
we like to see.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Some of us like it longer. Some of us like it shorter. Some of them like if it's spread
apart. Some of them like them crunched together. Some like the very loud ones. Some like the
very colorful ones.
Peterson: I got it.
Lash: Yeah. Anyway, what was our budget last year, just so we have that?
Peterson: $14,500.
Lash: Okay. So we know how much it was increased. Great. Anything else?
Manders: So does this bang for the buck then, is this just additional bang or is this just higher
price for the same bang?
Peterson: Addition of the council had approved that for the 2000 budget for this year so I don't
know what will happen in future years in terms of that budget. If that will go back down to the
original price but they wanted to do something for 2000. Increase the budget.
Berg: So more bang then.
Peterson: Exactly. More bang.
Lash: We're not just paying more for the same?
Peterson: No.
Lash: Okay.
Berg: That means longer and a better finale.
Lash: That's a good thing to do... Okay, so can we have a motion then?
Franks: I move that the City approve the contract for Melrose Pyrotechnics do the 4th of July
fireworks display in the amount of $20,000.
Lash: Is there a second to that?
Moes: Second.
Franks moved, Moes seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission reconunend that
the City Council approve the contract for Melrose Pyrotechnics in the amount of $20,000
for the 4th of July fireworks display at Lake Ann Park. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
14
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: I am thinking though, just in hindsight, it seems to me like before when we had this we
usually had a bid from them already. Didn't we? Usually we have a bid. So will we still be
seeing that prior to.
Ruegemer: Basically that was kind of a listing, you know after we had given them a budget
figure. Then there was kind of a show put together with how many dagger shells of this and I'm
not sure if Tracy has that or not at this point yet but.
Lash: Maybe they haven't put that together but I guess I'd just like to make sure that we get that
so we can compare it to make sure we really are going to be getting.
Ruegemer: Would you like to have it in the administration packet next month?
Lash: That'd be fine. Thanks.
4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION PARADE.
Peterson: Thank you again. As you are aware, we are having some discussion as to the 4th of
July parade and where that budget comes from. Deb Kind is here. She was Chairperson of the
Parade Committee last year and what she is looking for, and also the committee and it's also
discussion for you as well, is looking at adding the parade budget into our special events
sponsorship program. Currently the parade is funded by the committee. They go out to
businesses. The same businesses that we contact for the sponsorship program and are asking for
money to support the parade which amounts to about $8,000. And they do that and then they put
together the parade and organize the event so I kind of drafted some, just some things to think
about in terms of if it would be a prudent thing for us to either put it into our special events
program budget or not. And I think stafl's thoughts right now, I do have some thoughts and
concern about putting it in there and I think that one of my main thoughts would be that if the
money is put in our special events fund, what happens if the committee disbands and the volunteer
portion of it, which I think is nice to have and I think is a great community booster for them to
have to go out and work with the community. If that should fall apart, what happens to the parade
once it's in our budget and I think that would be kind ofa stafl} something to think about for the
future. That's probably the biggest concern I have with this. And then the second thing would be,
we contact our sponsors in December and look for them to sponsor our other events, the 4th of
July, Halloween, Easter and if we would put this back into the budget, we'd be looking at going
back to those people and having to explain and go through the process of letting them know that
we've made the switch. And I'm not saying that that would be a problem or that would be
difficult but it is something to think about. If we're just looking, if we're looking long term as to
moving us into our budget. So there's some questions to think about. If you have some
questions...
Deb Kind: I have something to say. I don't know when you want me to say it.
Lash: This would be the tine Deb.
15
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Deb Kind: My name is Deb Kind. I live at 2351 Lukewood Drive in Chanhassen. I'm the Chair
of the Parade Committee. I was ambushed for the job and it's been very enjoyable. I'm also on
the Planning Commission which is why I know those people because they were just before us a
week ago so just kind of fun to see it all over again. A recent presentation of the Planning
Commission's neighborhood presentation they had written their response to the staff report and it
was so slick because when I was sitting on the commission I didn't have to write notes down
while the person was talking so I made copies of what I want to talk to you about today and I'll
hand them out to you and you can decide how best to go about it here. Basically it's response to
Tracy's questions and then some rationale I guess. And let me know if you want me to walk you
through it or do you want to just pause for a moment and read it? It's just one page so, you can
give me direction.
Lash: Why don't we just take a short pause and we'll read first.
Deb Kind: Okay, so then the only way to get this included in the minutes would be for me to read
it.
Lash: I think we can have a copy of that put in, couldn't we?
Hoffman: Included in the verbatim minutes?
Lash: Yes.
Hoffman: Boy, I don't know if I've ever done that.
Lash: Oh. It has to be read?
Deb Kind: So maybe I should just rip through it.
Lash: Sure.
Deb Kind: I don't want to waste your time. I really don't but I think it's important to be part of
the public record.
Lash: Okay.
Deb Kind: My main goal is to have the parade be funded like any other of the city's July 4th
events and the reasons are, number one, it avoids duplicate July 4th fundraising. Meaning that
businesses think they already have contributed to the parade through the City's special event
sponsorship program. Number two, most business and residents assume that the parade already is
a city sponsored July 4th event. Number three, it supports the City's strategic plan by bringing an
intergenerational community together in the downtown area. Encouraging community
volunteerism. Recognizing outstanding community contributors as our grand marshal. Giving
taxpayers a good value because the parade is supported by business contributions and team effort
16
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
between paid city staff and community volunteers. There's over 35 volunteers, many of whom
are sitting right up there that help out with the parade and I really appreciate that. And then the
answers of staff" s questions, I'm sure it'd be better for City Council if I read each question and
then answered it but I think I restate the questions pretty well in my answers so I'm just going to
cruise through the answers here. Answer to question number one. From my perspective is that
the budget is up to the commission and City Council to determine where the funds come from.
The parade should be funded like any other July 4th event, in my opinion. Number two. I'm
planning to Chair the Parade Committee for three years and I feel the learning curve is over. I
expect, hope, that the parade will take less of my time this year. We have a computerized mailing
list. We have documented all the steps in the process and have created a written time line and the
parade will be easier to plan and easier to hand off to the next chair person. We have a great
group of volunteers that are committed to the parade for the foreseeable future, but I'm not
guaranteeing there will be volunteers to organize the parade forever. And I don't think that
agreeing to fund the parade via the city, that the city is guaranteeing there will always be a parade.
The parade should be like any other July 4th event. If the city thinks the fireworks and street
dance are important, they will go on. If the city thinks the parade is important, it will go on. It's
your decision. The answer to number three is the business community has contributed to the
parade in the past. I expect that they will contribute in the future. The only change will be that all
of the July 4th event contributions would now go to one fund and that being the city sponsorship
program fund. Number four. I feel the parade should be funded like any other July 4th event.
Am I repeating myselfa little much here? Number five. Regarding misconception. There's a
total misconception among the business and the public. The parade looks like a July 4th event. It
walks like a July 4th event. Then it must be like all other July 4th events. Whenever I talk to
somebody about the parade and how it is funded and how it's organized, without exception
residents and businesses are surprised to find out that it's not included in the city's budget. Or a
part of the city's official July 4th events. The answer to number six. City funding would
definitely enhance my commitment to continue on the parade committee. I'm more inclined to
volunteer my time if I feel my efforts are being supported by the City. And number seven. The
feeling of going back to ask for more support second time is uncomfortable and this is the
situation that the parade committee is put in every year. Either way the businesses need to be
contacted twice this year. I would like this to be the last year that this happens that businesses are
contacted twice for July 4th events. And I am suggesting that maybe a parade from the parade
committee, city letterhead might be a nice segway or transition to have that happen. And then I
have two more questions to add for the commission's consideration and that is, number eight.
How does the city decide what special events to sponsor? Currently there is the fireworks, street
dance, February Festival, Dave Huffman. How does the City decide to sponsor those and how do
you go about getting the parade included in that list? And number nine, is the parade more or less
important than other city special events? Thank you.
Lash: Thanks Deb.
Manders: What are you saying when you're saying that they're going back to them twice?
Deb Kind: Who's going back to them twice?
17
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Manders: Well that's what you're saying. Going back to them.
Deb Kind: Well number seven, I don't see that's the problem with not repeating the questions but
number seven, Tracy mentioned this too that city staff is reluctant or uncomfortable with the
concept of having to go back to the sponsor list that everybody was contacted in December of
1999 to be in the sponsorship program. And that parade was not included at that time so now they
need, if the city does indeed take on the parade, that means that we need to go back to all those
businesses and tell them that parade is now a part of the city and ask them to contribute their
normal parade funds to it. I would suggest that we probably just contact our normal parade
contributors. That list is much smaller than the city's sponsorship list. But and let them know of
the change. But that's the situation that we're in every year. We have to go back to the same
people and it's a tough sell, especially new businesses. Well I already gave to the 4th of July. It's
getting old. And I think right now that the parade and this being the fifth year, it's really a big
deal in Chanhassen and I think a lot of people really look forward to it and to me it's just.., long
answer for a short question.
Lash: Does anyone have questions? Why don't we do it in an orderly fashion. That way we
aren't going to all try and talk at the same time. Can we start with you Mike?
Howe: I don't have any questions. I think you've raised some excellent points and I do think the
4th of July parade is an integral part of our celebration, which has grown a lot since I've been on
the commission. There's not doubt about it. Bigger and better. I don't think, you know I thought
about this when I heard this last week that you know sponsoring something like this, if you
sponsored a holiday or you were sponsoring some religious holiday, there may be some issues
there but I mean this is the 4th of July. It's America. I don't have a problem with, you know what
we spend money now on so I don't think there's any issues there. But I'd be inclined to think
yeah, we should find a way to try to make this work.
Lash: Dave.
Moes: When are the businesses approached for the two funding components today?
Deb Kind: Our first committee meeting is usually in February and that's when we brainstorm on
grand marshals and our key entries because some of these bands especially that command the big
bucks need to get their schedule going. And we start our fundraising in February, but it really
doesn't get done until a couple months later and as we approach the 4th of July, more and more
come in. More and more funds come in.
Moes: So the business has been contacted at that point in time for the actual 4th of July activities?
Peterson: Actually our's went out in November.
Deb Kind: Of '99. But that's for all special events.
Lash: That's for all events, right.
18
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Deb Kind: Of which the 4th of July has been named one. And they all know that's what it's
going for and they feel like that they've already given to the July 4th because they participated
with that.
Moes: Okay, so the request that went out in November is this sponsorship money taken in for the
sponsorship program, that's all in that bucket? I'm looking at.
Lash: Not for the parade.
Moes: I understand. I'm trying to keep the lwo separate in my mind.
Peterson: Right. That total is the totals that we took in for all of the events that are included in
the sponsorship program which would be 4th of July, Feb Fest, Halloween, Easter.
Moes: Okay. And then for the parade back in '99, the sheet in here says the cost was $8,100.
Projected 2000, I'm sorry.
Deb Kind: Projected 2000, yeah. And that's actually approximately $2,000 higher than it was in
'99. One of the goals of the parade committee is to get more music in it and bands cost money.
They charge money so we kind of, that's what that other music line is $2,000. Hopefully we can
get some great music for that.
Moes: So ifI pull it all together and I looked at 1999, the total cost for 4th of July was roughly
$32,000. If the parade component of that would have been included, we would have been at
$39,000.
Deb Kind: $6,000 more. You did the math. That was close.
Moes: I'm trying to understand the lwo buckets here. Thanks. I'm done.
Franks: Tracy, when you approach the businesses in this last November for the sponsorship
program, are they informed what they gave last year and what all the events are or how does that
work?
Peterson: Well obviously I've only been through one cycle and maybe Jerry can comment. I
think most of them know what they've given in the past. Some just give a blanket donation.
Some are specific on what events they want their money to go towards. You know for example,
I'm trying to think. You some people have just specific ideas for Feb Fest and then they specify
that and that's where they want their money to go. Other people give us the flexibility to use that
money accordingly and obviously we represent them on all of our sponsoring. All of the events.
Franks: So they get some literature themselves that list, these are all the activities that we're going
to be running in Chan?
19
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Peterson: Right. There's a description and with the date. You know what the attendance was.
Kind of what it's about and so they, like I said, most of them when you talk to them know right
away yeah, I'll give the same thing or no, I would like to do. So they're pretty used to their
routine of what they get, which is nice.
Lash: Oh I'm sorry.
Franks: Go ahead.
Lash: On that same track, before she gets up. So like do they specify I want you know $1,000 to
go to 4th of July and $500 February Fest or they don't put exact amounts down?
Ruegemer: A good example of what Tracy's talking about is Halla Nursery. Halla Nursery is in
the business of selling nursery items. Trees, da, da, da. Mark typically when he gives specifies I
want 30 gift certificates given away at February Festival and 30 at the 4th of July. Boom, that
takes care of his sponsorship. Where Instant Web Companies will write the check for $3,000 and
say, you guys can use it as you see fit and they really kind of gave us the flexibility as Tracy was
talking about, to spend the money wisely within the program.
Franks: So if we were looking at increasing expenditure by $8,000, I mean somehow this would
have to get communicated. I mean if you were to do it, I'm just like wondering what your sense
of the reception from the business community would say would be. I mean like here we are the
City. Now we're.
Deb Kind: This is the problem we have.
Franks: Well I think there's a difference between a group of citizens coming to businesses and
saying we're citizens and we're looking for.
Deb Kind: Except it's the Chanhassen 4th of July Parade Committee.
Franks: Yeah, what's your sense of what it would be like? Do you have an idea?
Ruegemer: Going back again for a second time, I think we would get very little response and
very little cash.
Franks: And what about let's say a year, a new cycle from now where let's say it just so
happened that the city took this on. Would there be, and you had to communicate to the
businesses that are involved in sponsorship program, we need more than what you gave last year.
You just can't write the check for the same thing because we took this additional responsibility
on.
Lash: And in the past you contributed.
Ruegemer: That's really going to have to be communicated within that description of the letter.
20
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Franks: Do you think it would have any effect? I'm just like wondering.
Hoffman: I think it will have an effect but just a discounted effect because they're just writing
one check. As long as you communicate it and those large.., good percentage of it?
Deb Kind: I have it written.
Hoffman: Those sponsors are going to recognize the need to fund raise for that. We arbitrarily
raise the fireworks, what 5 and a half thousand dollars and we didn't make note of that.
Karlovich: That's what I was just going to mention. It just seems ridiculous that it's not included
and I think she's made that point but why don't we just go back to $14,500 for the fireworks and
throw that money at the parade.
Franks: Yeah, just to finish off though. You talked about the City taking a leadership position in
this and that's what causes me to hesitate. I'm not so sure that we want to take the leadership
position on the parade. We have something that's functioning. It's being mn by citizen volunteers
and it's being mn well and independently and we could get caught very easily in that position
where hey that's the city's thing now and it's one more thing for staff to take on and all of a
sudden now it loses that real city kind of volunteer, down home flavor of what it's really become
and I think that's what's made it really good. So... taking the leadership role to me are almost lwo
separate issues. And I don't know if you start paying for it, how you can avoid taking out the
leadership portion of that at some point down the road so I guess that's my comments.
Deb Kind: Madam Chairwoman, may I speak please?
Lash: Sure.
Deb Kind: In response to Rod, I think you're one of the few people in Chanhassen who knows
that it's just residents who put this on. And I'd kind of like to give credit where credit's due and
if everybody assumes the City's doing it, so I think the City should be doing it.
Lash: I think I was involved somehow, I can't remember at what level with the first one that we
had and that was for the 100.
Deb Kind: The Centennial.
Lash: The Centennial parade, and my recollection was that the discussion was, we were going to
do it that one year for the centennial and then that would be it but it was so very well received that
people wanted to try it again. Personally I figured it was going to fizzle because I thought it was
a one time thing. People were really fired up for it and each year it would get less and less
because it wouldn't seem like such a special thing, but that really hasn't happened. I'll have to
give you guys a lot of credit for that because I think there are a lot of people who look forward to
it. But I think Rod has a good point too. I don't know that I'm as hesitate to include the funding
21
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
request with our request, as long as we very clearly state that the City is now funding out of our
4th of July fund the parade so that contributors know that they need to pony up just once and then
they won't be bothered again and we would hold the funds, but I'd still like to see the volunteers
continue. And if the volunteers decide they don't want to do it anymore and we decide we don't
want to do anymore, we would just amend our letter asking for the donations by saying, by just
eliminating the little blip about the parade and we'd go back to the old system. But it doesn't
really put then the ownership of organizing the parade on our stafl2 And at some point if the
whole thing falls apart, and as a commission, as a city we feel strongly we want to continue it,
then we would have to make that decision at that point in time if that was something that the staff
was willing to take on. So I agree. I think it's two different things. I think funding and
organizing are two different things. I don't have a problem with consolidating the funding. I
think that would clarify things. But then just providing the funding to the committee when they
have their expenditures. Fred.
Berg: You say that very well. I agree in spirit completely. My point was going to be somewhat
like that in that you make the point correctly so that the residents of the city think that it's the city
that's already paying for it. The volunteers who are running it however know that it isn't the city
and they know it's their hearts and whatever that is making it go. I'm concerned if all of a sudden
it's being run by the city, that the volunteers are going to fade away. I look at our other things that
we do, our 4th of July, February Festival is pretty much all staff or seven volunteers that are doing
it and there's a lot of community volunteerism because it's the city's. I wouldn't want to lose
that. I hadn't thought of what you were suggesting. I think that's a good idea. I wouldn't be
against trying to fund, or to help fund it with the stipulation that we are not going to get in the
business of running it. That it keep that small town. That's what made it special the whole time.
It was a bunch of folks getting together, hey let's have a parade and I wouldn't want to lose that
spirit. I'm concerned about the funding. I think that if you go and say to these people we're just
going to have you make one contribution, they're going to see that as an opportunity to cut and
maybe make it a little bit larger than the initial but fall short of where they were contributing in the
past. But if we can keep that independent spirit and know that it's endorsed by the city and
certainly helped paid for by the city, maybe that won't cut the contribution quite so much. But I
think we have to keep it away from us. Government will mess it up.
Deb Kind: It's a well oiled machine right now.
Berg: Yeah, and I don't think we want to start fixing it. It ain't broke, let's not fix it.
Deb Kind: That's my main request is just to consolidate the funding. Our group wants to
continue to organize it and we're not looking to hand that part off at all. But if it does fizzle 10-
20 years from now, who knows how long it's going to take. I mean that will be the city's
decision as to, just like anything else that's lost interest or whatever.
Lash: Jay.
Karlovich: I don't have a whole lot to add. I think Deb has said she's going to, is you're going to
Chair it for 3 more years or how many more years?
22
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Deb Kind: I'm hoping for a total of 3 years. This would be my second year. And then next year
would be my third year and maybe by then it will just itself and I'll stay forever. I'll be pooba for
life. But that's in my mind is what I'm thinking.
Karlovich: I think we should consolidate the funding and I have confidence that it will at least
carry it on and hopefully the next chair person will do as an equal good job.
Lash: Jim.
Manders: I just think by consolidating funding you've got to expect that it's going to go down
because people need to be bothered, maybe not the right word, but to keep those funds up. I
empathize that situation because I wouldn't want to do it either. So I think it should be
consolidated.
Lash: I have one question I guess for Todd. When I just did a very quick number crunching it
looks to me like we're already running considerably over our contributions. Where does that
extra money come from?
Hoffman: Out of the general fund.
Lash: The general fund?
Hoffman: Correct.
Lash: Our general fund or the big general fund?
Hoffman: City general fund. The sponsorship program is designed to ofl~et the cost and annually
budgets are established and then the sponsorship...
Lash: So it's not really expected for it to be a break even.
Hoffman: No.
Lash: Okay.
Manders: One other footnote to council would be that if their concem's going to be this additional
expense that the city's going to incur, then I'm sure they'll be in their wisdom realizing that more
bang for your buck is an area as has been discussed.
Hoffman: Yeah, council's looking for your guidance in this issue. That's why they're sending it
down.
Manders: It's something to say. There's always trails to be fixed and parking lots to be paved
and so how many dollars do you want to spend? I don't know. That for me is a tough question to
23
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
say how much additional money should the city pony up for a parade. Because that's what it's
coming down to. It's more dollars.
Karlovich: The parade's more important than additional fireworks though. At least in my mind.
Manders: Yeah, so that's where the judgment starts coming in.
Hoffman: This may be a good opportunity for a, the City take a little bit of a different approach
to the organization of the entire parade and that is to have one staff person who is obviously in
charge of coordinating the event, then have the citizen chair people who are involved in the parade
and the games and the street dance and my belief is that when you send out these letters, if you
have that signed not only the Mayor and the City Chairperson, but also these other chairs who are
active in the committee, you just garner that much support. To date we've not gone that route
because it takes a considerable amount of investment of time and coordination in getting these
elected, or these appointed volunteer chairs in but in here that would be a great opportunity to
continue that relationship with the volunteer committee for the parade and you could do the
volunteer committee for the children's games and volunteer committee for a lot of the other events
so we'll talk about that at a staff level and come back to the commission and give you our ideas.
Lash: You don't think that would be a nightmare for you guys?
Hoffman: it may be a nightmare but again at some point if you invest x amount of time in those
people, you're going to get a lot in return.
Lash: Yeah, but they also sometimes are willing to do it one time and then they realize it's, so
you know every year it's going to be somebody new for you guys and...
Hoffman: Annual commission and then somebody else will come up from the ranks and those are
issues you have to talk about. But if we're anxious to continue on with this community
ownership, which I think is important. My philosophy at least has always been that if we can start
an event and make it successful and then farm it out to other groups, that's the way we want to go
and that's why we're here at the commission level to talk about well now we're bringing
something back. And so that's the oddity, not the norm. We're been trying to pass these things
off to community groups.
Manders: And one other point about these different events. You know the February Festival is
reduced what, $7,000 compared to the prior year in terms of expense. That's huge.
Lash: That was your advertising you cut way back on.
Ruegemer: Or different things, yeah.
Manders: I mean so that reduction is just in terms of the sponsorship that comes through, I mean
it's only needs to cover that $800-$900 that's left. Instead of, I don't see any other big ticket
items on here that you could cut. You know those kind of dollars like that.
24
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Hoffman: Well it's not that the Park Commission has to come up with anything to cut. Council
has a budget for this money that they can amend their budget and add $8,000.
Lash: I guess I'm feeling confident that whoever, Tracy are you sending the letters now?
Peterson: Yes.
Lash: You know that you're going to be able to come up with a way next year of wording this so
it's very clear to people, especially the people in the past who have contributed, and I'm sure a lot
of the normal contributors you don't even hit up a second time just because it's such an ugly thing
to have to do, where if we specifically put on all the letters, you know that the City will now be
funding the parade, which is a new thing. And if you support the parade, want to see the parade
continue, we'd appreciate some financial contribution. If they haven't in the past, that may guilt
them into doing it now. And if they have in the past, at least they know they're not going to get
hit up later and they may specifically increase their contribution as much as they had been. I think
if we really clearly communicate that, hopefully the funding won't go down. But we'll just have
to try it and see. But I really would be more in favor of just starting it next year with our initial
request. I know that puts you in a stinky situation because now you've got to do that dirty job
again. To go back to them, but at least you can say this is the last time we're going to do this
because it will be consolidated.
Deb Kind: So you're suggesting to make this change for the year 2001 and not this year?
Lash: Yes.
Deb Kind: There may be city funds to do it this year.
Moes: What information is available or are you able to share, Tracy or Todd, in regards to what
the 2000 sponsorship program funding is to date? I know you said the letters went out in
November. I mean what information is available or are you able to share.
Peterson: In terms of?
Moes: Well what's coming in the door for 2000 already or what commitments we've seen for
2000.
Peterson: I mean we've probably seen the majority of it come in. We're probably fairly close to
those '98-99 numbers. We're right around there. I mean we're not significantly higher or lower.
I don't have the exact figure but I think we're right around there.
Moes: So what you're saying is consistency is...
Peterson: Right. I mean the goal is to try and increase it. I think our goal for 2000 was $30,000
but we're fairly consistent with those numbers from the last iwo years.
25
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: This is kind of a technical question. When you said like specifically Halla will send so
many certificates. Do you include that in your revenue? And you include that then as an expense
of so many dollars worth of prizes given out or how do you?
Ruegemer: Well basically we've, as far as the revenue prizes and the sponsorship program, all
those gift certificates have a dollar amount to the revenue and that's included within the numbers
that Tracy had submitted. As far as expenses for the overall program, no. We don't include those
as expenses. Is that the question you're asking?
Lash: Yeah. Sort of. I mean I'm just in my own mind I'm thinking that you have.
Hoffman: The gift certificates would be reduced. It's not a cash value.
Lash: Right. So but you count it as a revenue, right. So in the $32,000 that you have for
expenses last 4th of July, if you gave out $1,000 worth of Halla certificates, is that a $1,000 of
that $32,000? Or is the $32,000 cash that went out?
Ruegemer: Basically the money is, we don't really include it that way. The money that's brought
in goes, say it's $28,000 that we bring in from the sponsorship program. If that's cash donation or
gift certificates, all that is kind of going to help ofl~et the general fund. The overall general fund.
We don't, I've never done it that way as far as ifI give away $1,000 worth of gift certificates. I
don't add that to the expense or subtract it from the expense. That's just, if we give away gift
certificates, we don't have to buy prizes.
Lash: Right, but it's also not money.
Hoffman: Correct.
Lash: See, so that's why I guess I'm confused because to me money is money and you can spend
it. And a certificate you can't spend. So if you get $32,000 worth of sponsorship program, it
could really only be $20,000 cash, correct?
Peterson: Correct.
Lash: But we still are writing checks out to vendors for $32,000.
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: Okay. That's what I wanted to know.
Hoffman: We can show you that difference.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: I don't have to have everything all broken down. I just wasn't sure how, you know and I
know when you look at pie graphs and people talk to you and they tell you money is not money
and all kinds of, even the government.., because money is money to me.
Hoffman: Money is not the appropriate language.
Karlovich: I guess the one idea that I wanted to at least throw out is maybe we could recommend
to the City Council that, and see if they feel that this $8,000 can be budgeted. If not, send it back
to us but at the same time also send us back a couple different options on the fireworks.
Lash: I don't think they're going to be up for that, number one. Personally I wouldn't either. I
think they're looking at this as a special year. I think the l0th anniversary is when they increased
the budget that year because they thought it was the tenth year we've had fireworks and they
wanted it to be special. I think there are particular years when they're interested in having an
extra special.
Manders: So what's the big whoop this year?
Lash: The millennium, dah.
Berg: ... we're still a year away from the millennium.
Franks: Can I make another comment? This is very going out of turn but the timing is bad
because there's no way to avoid going twice this year. There's just no way and we're already
running up on February when you're saying that's when you go and so, if they're going to be
approached they've got to be approached now. I guess my feeling on that one is, and you're not
going to like this. I hated selling wreaths as a Boy Scout and I hated selling fruit for the band and
I hated selling Christmas trees for the Y. I hate that approaching people to get the donation but
the city staff hasn't done this for the 4th of July parade before and your committee has and it
strikes me that at least for this year, knowing who to go to. How to approach them, you'd
probably be more effective than staff doing it. If we do anything, I would agree that we'd be
looking atthe 2001. I've just been looking ahead too and wondering if it's been considered to
coordinate instead of take over, but coordinate the fund raising effort so the two approaches from
the parade committee and from the city are done at the same time. Two separate letters but
coming at the same time. I don't know if that makes them being approached once. They might
have to write two checks. Or maybe they can write one check and specify the amount and the city
could cut the parade committee a check or something. But I would be in favor of looking for
creative ways to keep the parade committee separate and maybe there's a way to coordinate fund
raising efforts, but without the city taking over the responsibility to taking it on. But for this year I
think that it would be best for the parade committee to go ahead and do it. I think they have the
expertise and the knowledge that city staff would have to really gain quickly.
Lash: I think city staff would lose some credibility too if they had to now go back a couple
months later and ask for more money to fund this after they've just sent out a letter in November.
People are going to wonder why they didn't just do it in the first place.
27
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Deb Kind: Madam Chairwoman?
Lash: Sure.
Deb Kind: Just so you all know, I brought this issue to staff in July of 1999 to talk about funding
for 2000 and when I got my letter in November and it had no mention of the parade in it, because
I'm a sponsor, because I'm a business on the sponsorship list, there was no mention of the parade
in there. I thought oh well maybe it's just in there. Maybe it's just in the budget. I knew they
were talking about budget. Nobody ever got back to me about what had been decided and that
was sort of a ding, ding, ding. Is it in the budget or not and then that was why I went to the Truth
in Taxation meeting and now I feel like the boat has left and I feel like it's no fault of my own that
that happened. And I also feel that there is money in the city budget to do this. Maybe it won't be
oflket by business contributions, but there is surplus money because I was at that Truth in
Taxation meeting and I know that there is money that can come from another fund if the City
Council chooses.
Lash: Okay. Anyone else with comment?
Howe: If we make it clear that we're not taking ownership or we can't find money this year,
there's not a way to do that? I'm not sure I follow.
Karlovich: My question to Todd, do we have a can anywhere buried in one of our parks or back
yards or anything? Or anything that you could suggest?
Hoffman: As far as funding it?
Karlovich: Right.
Hoffman: Oh, the City Council could go ahead and authorize a budget amendment to increase the
4th of July budget by $8,000. And then it's a question of do you want us to send the letter for
additional contribution or not?
Lash: Or the City would just eat the cost of it.
Hoffman: Sure.
Deb Kind: As they do for other 4th of July events. Because they're all subsidized by the city.
They don't...
Berg: Nobody's disputing that. That's not the issue. The issue is if this one particular year.
Lash: Because the budget's already been approved, you know for each event so. Who hasn't had
a turn yet. Where did we leave off'? Who's only had lwo tums?
28
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Franks: Have the businesses that sponsored that parade, have they been polled about what they
would like to do? How they would like to do it? I mean maybe they, maybe to them it just
doesn't matter. Then maybe it doesn't matter to us.
Deb Kind: We're hoping to get more businesses though and every time we go it's the, they've
already been approached and think that they've given. So we want to expand our base.
Howe: When's the next City Council meeting? Next Monday night?
Hoffman: February. 13th, 14th.
Lash: Okay. Anybody have any finn direction here on what we'd like to do with this?
Howe: I'd like to find out a way that we can somehow, I agree with Fred that we don't want to
take ownership in this but I think we can help these people and help them fund it... and if we can
do this fast enough and the Council can get it. If council says no, that's another story, but you
know if they have the wherewithal to do this and we can get it done in three weeks.
Lash: Okay, so Plan A, Plan B. You want to send it to City Council. I'm going to try and just
throw an idea out. I'm not saying.
Howe: No, that's fine.
Lash: This is my idea. A good idea. I'm just going to throw one out. Send it to City Council
say because of you know resident request from this committee we would like the City Council to
fund the parade. However, the volunteer committee will continue to organize it. If the City
Council is not willing or able to fund this event at this time, it would be up to the committee to
continue their fund raising as they have in the past with the plan being, if we want to go this far
that next year staff would include that in their special event request letters of funding requests to
businesses.
Karlovich: I think that's a good resolution. I mean let them decide. They seem to, with
increasing the budget for the fireworks, have maybe a stronger opinion than we do and I think we
have some members on our staff that you know have felt the need to tighten the budget and get
community involvement and then there's those of us who want to support it and want to spend
because I think this is a very important.
Lash: Well the Mayor I know is a strong supporter of the parade so chances are they would
probably support the idea of funding it. However, if they don't we have a Plan B and then we
would also be making a commitment that we would be trying to do the fund raising next year. So
we've covered this year and next year.
Franks: I'm just concerned, if I understood what you're suggesting. I'm concerned that the
Council heard this once already and kind of sent it back down to us for I guess what I'm
interpreting is a little bit more specific guidance than that on what to do. But now we're kind of
29
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
saying well, we're going to send it back to you and then based on what you decide to do, then
we'll work on something. And I'm feeling like maybe we're not quite doing what we've been
asked to do. So maybe we should be more clear that if it's something that we're looking to really
support and do we should say that. And if we're not, we should not. Or if we say not at this time
but we're going to really consider it for 2001, we should say that so they know how to proceed
for year 2000.
Lash: I think if we said we want them to figure out the money deal and pay for it. That we want
to support. We'd like to see the parade continue. However, for this particular year because we
have already sent out our funding requests, sponsorship programs, whatever you call it, we are not
inclined to want to go back and duplicate those requests. So if they'll pay for it this year, great.
We'll take it on next year. And if they're not willing to take it on this year, the committee would
have to take it on again and then we would take it on next year.
Franks: So we're recommending that we would not engage in any fundraising activities for year
2000?
Karlovich: I mean I think if you want to force the issue then make a motion and see if it passes.
Franks: Well that's kind of.
Lash: Clarifying.
Franks: Yeah, what it is that we're saying.
Berg: I agree. I think we have to say something direct. And just say it. Just make a
recommendation.
Lash: Okay, go for it.
Berg: I move.
Franks: Can I make another comment before you do? I don't want to like keep this going but in a
sense are you saying that by not funding it for year 2000 that we're not funding it for 2000. We
recommend that the City not engage in fundraising for year 2000 and that consider adding that
into the special events program and coordinate, you know explain in the fundraiser for year 2001
and maybe that's enough. And when the city hears that, I'm sure that Deb or other members of
the committee will be there and certainly want to make their case in front of the City Council and
then they can make that decision. I don't know, maybe that's just.., now that I think about it.
Berg: I'm going to make a resolution. I want to make a resolution to support the committee by
suggesting that we recommend to the City Council that they in fact fund the parade for the year
th
2000. The 4 of July parade for the year 2000.
Karlovich: Second.
30
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Are you going to say anything for next year?
Berg: No.
Manders: So just for clarification purposes, what this means is that they're just guaranteed the
cost of the parade for, because there's still the whole solicitation of getting funds in and if those
funds happen to cover it, then they're out no money.
Berg: Correct.
Manders: Correct?
Berg: That's my.
Manders: So you're just basically asking the council to guarantee the cost of the parade.
Berg: Yeah, because we can't include in a motion that we want Deb's committee to go out and
continue to raise money because we don't have any control over that. But that's the intent, yeah.
Lash: So you're asking, wait. I mean that was pretty direct, but how can it still be so unclear?
You're saying City Council should pay for the parade this year?
Berg: Yes.
Lash: Out of the general fund?
Berg: Correct. I'm encouraging your committee to continue to try to raise funds, but I can't insist
that you do that. My intent is exactly what Jim said. To cover the costs that aren't met from the
committee.
Lash: Do you want direction to staff for next year to incorporate the parade?
Berg: Well I want to include in a motion, and I don't know if it's appropriate to do it in this
motion. The intent being that we want to help finance it through the donorship or sponsorship
program but we don't want to take over ownership of running it. That can be a separate motion I
think. I don't know that that has to be included in this one. I'm perfectly willing to amend it and
add that to the motion.
Hoffman: I think you can do it in one.
Berg: Just a second.
Moes: Can I, there's just one thought that's running going round and round here. But I'm
comfortable funding the parade. The one thought that jumps out though is in regards to managing
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
or approving the funding level then. I mean I'm hearing it's $8,000 this year. What sort of
comment or verbiage do we need to incorporate into a recommendation that there's some review
process so that if the fund comes in, you know the committee comes back with $10,000 and we're
saying $6,000 and we've got a $4,000 gap there, does that mean the parade is now non-existent or
does the committee go back and skinny it back to $6,000?
Berg: We're not doing that with the other things that we fund. We're not setting a limit every
year and reviewing the February Festival for example every year. I don't know that we've, I
don't know that I feel that that would be necessary.
Lash: We do every year. We...but later we always have information from staff as to what, as to
the breakdown and what the total expenditure was.
Berg: Right. I don't ever remember having a discussion centering around this is getting too
expensive. I think we have to consider dropping February Festival.
Lash: No, we have had those discussions because we dropped Oktoberfest. And February Fest, I
think that's like one of the reasons that that got cut back was it was just, it was getting expensive
so. You just don't remember. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Berg: Well then I'm going to say there's still a motion on the floor.
Lash: Okay, was there a second to that?
Berg: Yes there was.
Lash: I don't remember it. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just don't remember it. Okay,
would you just restate the motion so I know when I call the vote I know what I'm going to.
Berg: What did I say?
Hoffman: That the Commissioner Berg recommends that the City Council fund the 2000 parade
and that stafl} that we send out notification in 2001 including the parade as a part of the
sponsorship program.
Lash: Okay, are you okay with that?
Berg: Yes I am.
Lash: And the second is okay with that?
Karlovich: I'm okay with that.
Berg moved, Karlovich seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission reconunend
that the City Council amend the budget to include funding for the 2000 4th of July parade
32
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
and direct staffto include the 4th of July parade in it's special events sponsorship program
for 2001. All voted in favor, except Franks who opposed, and the motion carried with a
vote of 6 to 1.
Lash: Do you want to explain your vote?
Franks: Well I just don't think it's a good idea for, you know it's follow the money. I think we
will be taking over leadership of this somewhere down the road or choosing not to have the parade
and it's working well and it's a great success and as Fred said, let's not fix anything that's not
broke.
Hoffman: Well, that's one of the things that community groups give up when they mm it over to
the city is they lose that control to say yes or no to their event. That's going to be part of the
situation here so.
Manders: For my own comfort, I figure the safety valve that I have is that isn't guaranteed every
year anyway so in subsequent years it might fold.
Berg: Well they're giving up more than that too. They're giving up the ability to say we're going
to add $2000 to the budget to go for more music. You're giving up a lot of control. Even though
we don't want any of the control, we're taking it. And I'm worried that we're going to really
mess it up. As the author of the motion Rod is saying, what the hell did...
Hoffman: There's a variety of administrative issues that are in there during the budgeting that will
work themselves out so if the parade committee comes to staff and says we need another $1,000
next year, we would simply apply for that if we believe it to be of value in the budget as we go
through the budget cycle. You would see that, and then Jan's correct. When you see these
numbers you see them after the fact and it's an answer to Deb's questions down at the bottom.
How do you decide? Well it's this committee that decides. The commission takes a look at those
numbers and they say oh, you know that's getting to be a lot of money. Should we cut that
down? Should we reduce that? Different things so the commission is the sounding board for
these events.
Berg: I'm hoping that we can monitor it enough that we can see if something is happening to it.
Howe: When the Rolling Stones play there on the tractor trailer.
Ruegemer: We'd better add another $8,000.
Lash: Okay. Whoa, we made it through. Thanks Deb. Thanks for all that you do with this too.
You make it go.
Deb Kind: You bet.
Lash: Well at least City Council will know we thoroughly discussed this issue.
33
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Deb Kind: And this proposal will be on?
Hoffman: February 13th.
Howe: 14th. I'm working that meeting.
Lash: So you'll be able to clarify that very succinctly.
Hoffman: Yeah, they want to read all those minutes.
RECREATION PROGRAMS:
A. FEBRUARY FESTIVAL.
Peterson: We are slowly but surely getting ready for Saturday, February 5th. I have the volunteer
sheet. I'll pass it around. If you guys are going to be around I would love for you to be there and
help out. As we have talked about and kind of talking about just briefly going over the budget
again, we did the inserts in-house which were helpful to us. Norma, Jean and Karen did a great
job again of doing that and that seems to have worked well for the second year so that process is
something that we will probably continue. But we are ready to go for the most part and hopefully
we have a good day and we'll be working on fine tuning getting everything ready and getting all
our prizes ready.
Lash: Are you going to do the prize board the same as we did last year? Because that worked. It
worked good.
Peterson: Yep.
Lash: Are you going to be there to narrate?
Berg: I haven't been asked but I'll be there to work the board.
Lash: Be preparing your notes in case you get the mic.
Berg: I've got a sociology lecture this time that will knock your socks ofl~
Ruegemer: No World War II?
Berg: People have had enough about the Pelopencian War. They're ready for a little Soc.
Lash: You could make up some other war we've never heard of. Okay. So anything else, we'll
sign up as the thing comes along.
34
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Peterson: Yep, and I think Jerry has inserts if you guys did not get your's in the Villager. There's
extra inserts if you want to take along with you tonight.
Berg: Do we park down at the lake again and all that stuff'? Do we need any pass? We needed
passes that one time, but that's not a problem?
Peterson: I don't think it will be.
Berg: Plenty of ice?
Peterson: We hope so.
Hoffman: Oh yeah.
Peterson: It's looking pretty good.
Berg: Seriously, can you get an outdoor person, a person whomever they call the rogue to do the
announcing again this year?
Ruegemer: I think KSMM was going to... We need you for chipping holes.
Berg: Don't count on it this year...
Lash: You've got to take a couple days off work Jay so you can get out there a couple days
early. You've got to start Thursday.
Karlovich: Start drilling holes?
B. 4TIt OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Peterson: We're right on the tip of February and moving into July so, I don't have any, except
what's stated in the memo. We booked Casablanca again. We'll wait to see what council decides
with going with Melrose. If they approve that and we'll be starting to get work on some of the
major things. Food vendors.
Lash: Dippin Dots?
Peterson: I've got it down. So we'll start it on the main pieces probably right after Feb Fest.
Like I said we have the street dance music lined up and hopefully the fireworks so those two big
components are in place so we'll look at making some, maybe some changes to some of the other
things but we're on our way.
Lash: You know I think I remember last time when we did the post mortem on that and we had a
pretty good assortment I think of food vendors but it seems to me like I recall, there was just huge
lines because it was like one guy was serving everything.
35
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Peterson: Right, and that had to do with obviously it was pretty hot. I mean but they were long.
I think we can either, and I'm not sure, I think there's a couple of them that, at least one I know
that probably will not come back, just because they've been here for a while and I think they just
don't feel that they're getting what they need. But we could either add or just look at the variety
of what people are, we have the power I think to add one or two more.
Lash: I think what it was last year was it was one vendor who had a lot of different things and so
everybody was at that one wagon.
Peterson: And that be a location thing too. We'll figure out how to get them, that's.., traffic
issue is work that out a little bit better.
Howe: I'm looking forward to that.
Lash: Sounds fun.
SELF SUPPORTING PROGRAMS: 3 ON 3 WINTER BASKETBALL LEAGUE.
Ruegemer: We started January l0th with 16 teams again. They are playing on Monday nights. I
stopped by the league last night. Everything seemed to be flowing. No major injuries. So it
seems to be going fine with that so we'll start a post season tournament the end of February, early
March. That's just current standings as of last week.
Moes: This is fairly self supporting then?
Ruegemer: Yes. Very little expense. I can't fund the parade from the proceeds I get from the
revenues.
Lash: But how could we? Can I ask you a quick question Tracy, as this thing's going down the
line? There's a medallion hunt. I think I helped with that last year by just putting out the clues.
Can I do that while I'm working the prize board or is it going to be more, you know is it
something that I wouldn't be able to do at the same time?
Peterson: I think the worst that will be required for the medallion hunt will be very, very minimal.
It will just be putting those out. We wanted to do a little bit bigger thing this time that's clearer so
if you want to help out with that in the...
Lash: Yeah, if you don't have anybody then yeah...
Peterson: That'd be great.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
36
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: Did anybody have questions or anything on that? Or can we skip over it. Everybody
clear? Okay.
SENIOR CENTER REPORT.
Lash: Same thing. Anybody have questions?
PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE.
Lash: How about the park and trail maintenance report? I thought it was interesting that we had
this comment from Dale about how difficult it is to keep the ice going and then we've got the
recognition from the hockey coach saying it's such great ice. You know you have to give some
kudos to the staff since they've had a tough year. And then they're also getting that good
feedback.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
2000 PARK & TRAIL ACQUISITION DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.
2000 OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE BUDGET.
Hoffman: These are included in your packet for those commissioners who care to keep up pace
with what's going on with your recommendations and then at the time those recommendations are
viewed by the council there are some minor changes. Depending on your viewpoint, minor or
major changes. The skating rink was moved up out here at City Center Park and then some other
issues so this packet includes park and trail improvements, and then some municipal
improvements for buildings. Now there's one that I'll note just for your curiosity is on page 37.
Municipal buildings, Lake Ann Park. Old storage shop. That building will be gone as of June 1st
of this year and due to an agreement with MnDot on the right-of-way for the frontage road, and
it's at the city's cost to rebuild that storage out of the maintenance building. And so this
agreement goes back to, it predates 1995. The Highway, MnDot is paying for a frontage road,
underpasses, and very nice trail system. Landscaping on their bill. By the way, you have a park
frontage and a park maintenance shed and a park storage area that are in the way. Please make
those go away and pay for that and we'll go ahead and do these road projects. So it's time to pay
the piper.
Lash: This was a nice report with the pictures and, very visual. That's nice. When you
mentioned about that ice, the other hockey rink at City Center.
Hoffman: See it in there?
Lash: No. But maybe I just don't see it. It might be there.
Hoffman: Just before parks, City Center Park... You're right. This is an old copy then. It's in
2001.
37
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Lash: I guess my question is, and you mentioned it last month. I remembered it when I read the
minutes but, and I had asked the question then if the budget has been increased by that amount
because wasn't it $40,000 or something? Because when we were doing our five year plan we had
amounts we were shooting for.
Hoffman: It was increased. Yep, the number was increased.
Lash: And they're okay with that extra $40,000 that particular year?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: What if we don't take in enough in revenues that year?
Hoffman: Any other year when they don't match, you just... I apologize. We have a couple of
different renditions of this. Bruce DeJong our Finance Director is coming under fire for just a
whole lot of things. He's doing a lot of good work but he's just got a lot of things going on so
these are getting updated and reprinted and I'll get you the corrected and final version once they
are available.
Lash: An especially nice feature I think here is the effect on the annual operations. I think for
people to see that is, gives you kind of an idea of when we make recommendations to do
something, what's the long range impact on the city budget because we never really have dealt
with that before. So it's good to see that.
Hoffman: The second budget is the operation and the maintenance budget. This is what would be
classified as, characterized as your general fund budget. However it does include the 146, self
supporting programs. Informational piece. There will be a more complete budget with
commentary which would explain each one of these expenditures as that becomes available. We
will provide that to the commission. Just wanted to get those numbers into your hands so you can
start to understand that.
Lash: Okay, anybody have any questions on any of those?
Franks: Is Scott looking for more permanent staff people, less temp staff people?
Hoffman: In the budget numbers?
Franks: Yeah. In the budget numbers.
Hoffman: The budgets have been consolidated to a large extent. An example would be the
downtown maintenance people. They were formerly under a different budget. Now they're back
under parks and recreation. So a great deal of consolidation. And quite frankly the council just
took his word. He said if you want me to consolidate all these funds, you're going to have to
38
Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
trust me that these things are not going up or down. We're just consolidating because they have a
difficult time themselves tracking all those numbers.
Lash: It was kind of interesting to see how some of this shakes down too and how things
increase. Or decrease.
Hoffman: The commentary will help you.
Lash: I think the one that I noticed, and I don't know what causes it although I know insurance
premiums are just outrageous but under park maintenance contributions for insurance from last
year, unless that's a typo, went from $3,700 to $30,000 this year? Went up $27,000.
Hoffman: Well the 1999 budget included 18.8. Department request is, I'm not tracking that
either here.
Lash: I'm thinking there must just be a typo there somewhere.
Hoffman: Yeah, it looks to be a typo in the request number. Okay, missing number there. Okay,
anybody else? Okay, thanks Todd.
Co
COMMISSIONER ATTENDANCE RECORD.
CONSULTING ENGINEERS COUNCIL ENGINEERING AWARD~ 1997 TRAIL
PROJECT.
Hoffman: The Howard R. Green, the consulting engineers who worked on our trail project,
nominated the 1997 trail project for an award. They were successful on behalf of the City
receiving that award. Their first consulting engineering council award for their company and so
they were proud of it. The project was highly recognized for it's, how aggressive it was. How
much work it involved. The public process was very much a part of the award process. How did
you get these people involved? How did you fast track such a large project? Getting community
and neighborhoods involved and groups involved, so there is an opening for attendees to attend the
presentation. Liz and I will be going down if anyone is interested from the commission, please let
me know. Howard R. Green would be glad to have you there as guests.
Lash: That's at the new Science Museum?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: That would be cool. Was there one particular segment that seemed to be, you think that
was what made it go to the top?
Hoffman: No. What really impressed I think those who judged it was 6 trails, 7 miles, 6 different
segments, spread out across the city. Coordinated as one project. One consultant. One project
team. And to keep it moving along through all of the approval processes. That the community
bought into it to a large degree, not only through the referendum but then after that. Through
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
these neighborhood meetings. And then there was also a good number of testimonials in the
documentation for the award that the quotes from the meetings that now that the trail is in it's
brought our neighborhood together. I've met people down the street that I've never known before
and that's due in large part because of the trail. And that's what you like to hear.
Lash: Okay, thank you.
E. ICE RINK USER REPORT.
Lash: Ice Rink User Report. Anybody have comments on that? Okay.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS.
Lash: So if you're on a committee and you have something to report. Anything? Anyone?
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS.
Lash: Nobody has anything this month?
Manders: Presentations?
Lash: Yeah.
Manders: I had one question. I don't know if this is would be my time?
Lash: Yes.
Manders: Okay. I just have a question about trails in terms of snowmobile usage. Have you had
any observations or anything pointed out?
Hoffman: Variety of issues. Halfa dozen snowmobile conflict issues in the city. Typically they
do not surround the trails that are marked by the club. In some cases they do but there's private
property issues. Trespass issues. Been working with Deputy Potts on those. Had 4 or 5
meetings with residents who have just had it to such a degree in their particular situation that
they've come in and want to talk about their problems that the snowmobile use in the city has
caused.
Manders: But in terms of potential damage to trails?
Hoffman: Oh damage to the trails that are in?
Manders: Yeah.
Hoffman: We saw some minimal damage last year. There are no marked snowmobile trails on
top of asphalt trails and we're plowing them more aggressively this year so we're minimizing that.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
But there's.., that takes place to the surface. It will accentuate the wear on the trails and it will
reduce the life by, if you're going to overlay it in 10 years, you're going to overlay it in 9 years
because of snowmobile use on some of these areas.
Lash: Okay. Any other commissioner member items?
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Moes: ... playground at Bandimere. You sent out the three letters.
Hoffman: There's been some internal feedback which is mixed.
Lash: You mean as far as, you mean internal like from City Council internal or staff internal?
Hoffman: No. From the organizations. That would be external coming to us but not in a special
level or an internal level.
Lash: So like what's kind of feedback are you getting?
Hoffman: Mixed. Some might go for it. Some might not.
Lash: That's not a big surprise.
Hoffman: No. So we'll wait for these letters, and again that was by council directive to.
Lash: I thought city staff wasn't supposed to be in the business of fund raising.
Hoffman: Only by directive.
Lash: So wasn't there anyone else you could fundraise from? I mean is that the extent of the
youth organizations there?
Hoffman: With any bank accounts.
Lash: I suppose the Lions don't really do anything more much. Okay. Okay, anybody else have
anything? If not, is there a motion to adjourn?
Karlovich moved, Howe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission
meeting. All voted in favor and the meeting was adjourned.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Recreation Director
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting January 25, 2000
Prepared by Nann Ophehn
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