PRC 2000 06 27CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 27, 2000
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Mike Howe, Jim Manders, David Moes, Jay Karlovich, Fred Berg
and Rod Franks.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; and Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Superintendent
APPROVAL OF AGENDA: The Agenda was approved as presented.
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Berg moved, Moes seconded to approve the Park and Recreation
Commission Minutes dated May 23, 2000 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried
unanimously.
GUEST PRESENTATION, BRIAN HUBBARD, DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT YMCA OF
METROPOLITAN MINNEAPOLIS.
Brian Hubbard: Good evening. I'm happy to be here. To give you a little bit of background here. First I
would say that presentation is not going to be the correct term. I'm looking for dialogue here and the gist
of my reason for being here tonight is, the YMCA Metropolitan Minneapolis has a general Board of
Directors that oversees all of the operations in the Minneapolis and surrounding suburban area. And they
have put together a new visions task force. That task force determined areas that the YMCA should look
at growth opportunities and of that they determined three areas that are growing areas that may have some
needs for an increased YMCA presence. The Carver County area is one of those areas and so I've been
assigned the task of trying to determine is there a need for an increased YMCA presence. So that comes
the dialogue. I'll give you a little bit of information here but I had a meeting with Todd and with Scott
about a month ago and shared that this is what we're doing. I'm spending the summer meeting with
anybody that will meet with me to talk about the YMCA. What the YMCA is. What possibilities are, and
then to get feedback. The YMCA is the type of organization that without the community supporting it,
being excited about it, wanting it, is not an organization that will be successful and so we're not interested
in coming in and popping up a facility or starting a major program until we've got all the players that
would have a stake in that, have said yes. We'd like to do it. A little bit about me. I like talking about
the Y because I grew up in a Y and I was a young teenager who was needing some stuffto do, like many
teenagers and went to camp for a summer and the Y kind of hooked me in from there. Allowed me to
make sure that I was on the right path. Have good role models, etc and started working with the Y part
time and then full time and now nobody else will take me so. The Y is something I'm very passionate
about, and I enjoy talking to people about the Y because not knowing where any of you have come from,
the Y has a wonderful history. We're celebrating 150 years of successful programming. I spent prior to my
current assigmnent, I spent a number of years with the YMCA in St. Paul and my major focus there was on
similar development work in the communities of Woodbury and Eagan and Hudson, Wisconsin as they
were starting to grow. And those communities we started offwith full store front operations and small
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
programs and all three of those communities now have facilities so I enjoy development work. I enjoy
exploring the communities what a YMCA can do for a community and so I enjoy telling the story. I guess
what I'd like to get out of my time up here tonight is, again to tell you about what the Y is. A little bit
about our new development initiative and then to start a dialogue about the possibilities. Exploring needs
and opportunities for programming, for partnership, for facilities, etc. And obviously my sense would be
that this is the right group to get that feedback from above everybody else. Business folks and other
community leaders can say yeah, we need or no, we don't need but my sense is that this is the group that
really has the pulse on that need so I'm really excited to be here. Did you all receive the packet? Okay.
That packet was just intended as generic information. It's information that I'm taking around as I go
because I never know, especially well, I never know what people know about the YMCA. So that
information is just intended as generic information to give you a little bit of history background about what
the Y is. What some YMCA programs may look like. The mission statement of the YMCA is to build the
total person, spirit, mind and body through character development programs that build strong kids, strong
families and strong communities. So I didn't have that written down. I just recited it. And we really cling
to that mission statement as an important part of what we do. I think it's important for anybody who would
choose to work with the YMCA, or to participate in YMCA programs to understand that we really see our
work as relationship work and that programs are a mechanism by which we connect with people and get
them in, but it's the relationships we develop from that that are important. IfI were to answer the question,
what is a YMCA. That would be as different as the 2,500 plus YMCA's that are in existence around the
country. Every YMCA and one of the joys of working for YMCA is that I can be in a community and look
at what community needs are. Where are the gaps and figure out if the Y can fill them so I don't know that
you will find a text book box of what a YMCA is. But a couple certainly over riding themes of a YMCA.
The first one is strong kids. Now these are all going to relate to our tag lines that you see on everything
that we do. The YMCA is the number one provider of child care nation wide. We have the most kids
involved in child care of anybody. We're a leader in teaching children to swim and aquatics programs.
We are I think a leader in youth sports programming, and the philosophy of teaching kids sports and
teamwork and good values and letting them leam the game. We typically stay away from more of the
competitive aspect. We're a leader in camping and we most certainly are a leader in most communities
that we work in in the area of youth and teen development. And we enjoy in all of our YMCA's in
Minneapolis, wonderful relationships with cities and schools and other agencies around how do we help
our young people become successful. The YMCA is strong families. We are focused on family night
programs. Programs that bring busy families together. We're focused on parent-child types of programs.
We're focused on providing opportunities for all members of the family. If you walk into a YMCA
facility, there's something for everybody to be a part of. If it's not a facility, we try to provide
programming from very young to very old. To encompass the entire family. And we certainly, the YMCA
is strong communities. As I said earlier we, the Y focuses on providing programs that meet a community
need and that are unique to what the community might need. YMCA provides financial assistance for all
of our programs and it's something that we're very proud of. That we are very adamant that no person will
not be allowed to participate in YMCA programs because of their inability to pay the fee. As I said, the
Y's in over 2,500 communities in the United States and over 200 countries world wide. The YMCA is a
volunteer run organization. We are set up in a structure of boards that are volunteers from the community
that give leadership to staff`in terms of how things are run so that we can continue to always have the pulse
on the community. And YMCA's are community supported. All YMCA's do fund raising in some
capacity and that money stays in that community and we look to communities to be an important part of
making a YMCA successful. We're also part of, ifI were to answer the question, what is a YMCA? The
triangle YMCA is actually has a definition, spirit, mind and body are the three sides of the triangle. That's
what the Y was founded on. And so our programming is intended to focus on those areas. So we have
spirit programs and that has changed through the years as some of you may know. We really look at spirit
as trying to help people understand their heart, their values. All of our programs have what we call our
character development values which are caring, honestly, respect and responsibility. So ifyou're in an
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adult basketball program or if you are in swimming lessons or if you're at camp or if you're in a senior
program, those are going to be things that we're going to try and make sure that you're hearing on a
consistent basis. The importance of those. We are an organization that's focused on mind. We do
numerous tutoring programs that partner with schools to provide opportunities. We try to partner with
parents to help them to figure out ways that they can be successful with their young people in education or
in a young person's personal growth. Be it leaming a skill, leaming a sports skill. And we're focused on
body and the whole arena of health enhancement and we feel that's an important part of our mission of
people being physically fit and we have a pretty unfit society and we want to be a part of helping to make
people healthier, be it through aerobic classes or strength training or any gambit of wellness programs.
That's a snapshot of what I would suggest a YMCA is. In terms of the new development, as I explained,
the new vision task force has decided that Carver County is an area that we should be looking at and
throughout the summer I'm meeting with folks. I expect that by the end of August I'll probably have 70
meetings with different people to try and gather that input and what the needs are. Where the potential
partnerships are, and then at the end of the summer the goal would be to establish a task force of
community folks and I'll present that information to those people and say here's the information that I
think I've heard. Does that information sound correct and then what are we going to do with it? Do we
want to make this something more? Do we want to say there's not a need for a YMCA presence. Where
do we go from there? So that really will be the community that will determine if and how. So I think
that's important for me to share with you upfront is that there isn't necessarily a hidden agenda here that
we want to plop a YMCA facility across the street. That's not the goal. The goal is to determine is there a
need and if so, what is the need and how can we be a part of it. A little bit of history of what the YMCA
has done in this area. As I assume you all know, we've been working for a number of years now with the
Park and Rec Department in the area of preschool youth sports and we've found that to be a very
successful program. That is a program that is very similar to what you would see in most YMCA's around
the country and so we've enjoyed that partnership with the city. We have partnered with the school district
on some of their summer school. They call it summer express programs and providing components of that
for a couple years. We've been involved in the Club Mid partnership which is the schools and the cities
and a number of looking at opportunities for middle schoolers and we have done at various times
throughout the last 3-4 years. And a small scale family programs, we've done some child care with the
private school in Chaska. So we have done some programming but not even scratched the surface I would
suggest in what the opportunities could be. Would it be helpful for me to explain to you what's in the
packet? I just need a yes or a no and if not, I won't.
Lash: I looked through it.
Berg: I don't think.
Brian Hubbard: Okay. It's pretty self explanatory.
Lash: Yeah it is.
Brian Hubbard: I will save you that then. And I brought a video to show. It's a real short one, about 6
minutes and the video is, it's a tour through a virtual Y. And the reason I'm showing the video is because
it certainly shows what a YMCA facility looks like but I think most people know that. What I like about
it, it was produced by our national office and it really gives a snapshot of what some of the programmatic
opportunities are. We really look at a facility as a tool, just like arts and crafts supplies or a tool.., it's
what we do with that that really makes it powerful and so don't be so concemed with looking at the
facility, but more listening to what kinds of things the YMCA is involved in. So if we can watch this for a
minute and then I have a few questions for you.
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
The Park and Rec Commission was shown a video on the YMCA at this point in the meeting.
Brian Hubbard: So again I show you that to suggest that a YMCA in a community can be very diverse in
what it is that it is. What that YMCA looks like. Most YMCA's enjoy wonderful partnerships with
organizations in the community so again the Y is not duplicating. If an organization's doing child care, if
an organization is going aquatics, well the Y doesn't have an interest nor a desire to duplicate but rather to
find then what the other nitches are and fortunately I think we have a diverse enough opportunity of
programs that that's something that can happen. So I guess maybe what I'll do first is ask if there are
questions about the Y in general or things that I can clarify or what this new development thing is or?
Lash: I bet we all probably have some questions. Can we do this in an orderly fashion? Why don't we
just start with Jim.
Manders: Okay. I guess to me there's the basic piece ofa Y program is the actual scheduling of the
programming event and then a facility. Evidently you or you're involved in some of the programming
activities now. So my question is in terms of where we're looking to go and I know that's your question
too. You know, what do we do? Do we deal some type of facility or do we use what we have now in terms
ofa rec center and just expand on that or do we just limit it to current summer programming or you know.
Brian Hubbard: You're asking the question that I'm asking and the answer that I would give from the
YMCA perspective is that the Minneapolis YMCA is positioned very well right now. Financially the Y is
solvent and that wasn't the case even 5-10 years ago. And so as a non-profit the Y's very successful. With
our corporate board of directors, they've given us the reign to say that the sky's the limit and so that may
mean that there's an increased YMCA presence that is program based where we're looking at churches or
schools or the rec center or something to provide those programs. But that's not to preclude that there are
not opportunities to look at facilities. Be it joint facilities or not that but, a store front. There are certainly
YMCA's that have a program center that is basically the front of a store and that programming happens
there so, I'm not answering the question except to say that I think, as far as the YMCA's concemed, we are
wide open for what the possibilities could be and how we can partner and how we can fill the nitch. Tell
me if I'm.
Manders: No. I mean it's just kind of an observation and I know we're full of essentially the same
question. In terms of, and I don't how to arrive at this question, cost or it's a matter of how much does the
city want to put into it or what is required and what's required is how much you want. You know in terms
of what one does is it basically within the community or is it a county wide thing or what are you looking
at? I mean you're saying Carver County but you're talking to the city of Chanhassen.
Brian Hubbard: Are you speaking as it relates to a facility specifically?
Manders: Yeah.
Brian Hubbard: Okay. As it relates to a facility, certainly my plan will be through the summer to have
discussions with all of the communities in the county at some level. Be it with staff or with policy makers.
When I met with Todd and Scott, their suggestion was right away, I think that you should come and talk to
the commission and see what their feedback is. But I will be having conversations with Chaska and with
Victoria and with Waconia at least. I have talked with the County a little bit, and so that's why I'm
standing here right now. In terms of if there was a facility at some point, we would be looking for some
kind of a partnership because the YMCA is a community based organization. And what does partnership
mean? I think it looks different everywhere. There are certainly communities that have partnered with the
Y. I'll give the example of Lino Lakes. Right now is in the process of YMCA development and the city
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helped secure land. And that was their piece of the contribution. We would look, if we decided to build a
facility, we would look at doing a capital campaign that would certainly encompass being in this
community and the businesses and the individuals in this community, and that would be supplemented by
the efforts of the metropolitan organization which goes to the bigger companies downtown. They would
supplant that. Right now, a facility like that one is probably about a $9 million facility. So again, tell me
if I'm not answering the question. I don't want to be evasive but I'm about as new to this as you are.
Manders: ...answer, I understand that. No, that's fine.
Brian Hubbard: Maybe I can say this. The YMCA is certainly not in a position in the facility world to
build a facility on it's own. I don't think that the Y has the financial resource to make that happen. But
through partnerships, certainly the Y would be a very active, the most active of course partner in making
that happen. But there are other arrangements as well. There certainly are cities and schools and other
agencies that partner and they are joint facilities and that is certainly an option as well.
Lash: Are you done Jim?
Manders: Yeah.
Lash: Jay.
Karlovich: First of all I think the YMCA coming to the City of Chanhassen would be something very good
for the city of Chanhassen. In the city I see that you know, at least for my family, we go to the, we were
going to the Chaska Community Center that had indoor aquatics. We don't really have any of that here
within our city. Otherwise, I know my wife goes all the way to Minnetonka to Northwest for kind of her
workout. I belong to Lifetime because I work on the other side of the city but I have to actually go to
Bloomington or to Plymouth. I know my, some of my relatives, a lot of them use the Y quite a bit because
of it's low cost and some of the facilities that it provides even are less expensive than like a Lifetime or a
Northwest. When can we get started? When can we build that facility and where can it be located is what
I'm thinking and let's use some of the park acquisition fund or do whatever we can but I think it, I think
the parks commission and the city should at least support something at least, a facility like this in the city
of Chanhassen would be I think great. How can it not be a plus, but that's just my personal observation.
Lash: Okay. Are you done?
Karlovich: Yeah.
Lash: Okay, thanks. Fred.
Berg: I guess I sort of echo some of the same sentiment. I wasn't sure exactly why you were going to be
here tonight. I thought it was to talk maybe about expanding some of the programs that you're already
doing out at the Rec Center. I thought okay. This is terribly exciting. This would meet a need in this
community that we've had for a long time and have tried to get for a long time. What do you do for high
school kids?
Brian Hubbard: Well, again I think especially most of my YMCA career has been in the area of youth
development. Prior to moving into this less fun paper pushing kinds of stuff. And in 10 years of youth
work I really relied on partnerships to provide programming so at different YMCA's I've been at we've
had Youth and Government which is a program that's a statewide program. That gets students in middle
school, high school grades participating in the government process and leaming about the government. We
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
have various service types of programs. We really are a proponent in our youth development philosophy
that one way to help kids be more successful is to teach them that giving service to others is a good thing
and so with different spins on it. Service leaming and community service is probably the biggest part of
what we do for any group of teens. And then certainly some YMCA's have more at risk...most of our
YMCA's in Minneapolis have a couple of youth development workers who's job is to work with different
communities to help identify what those young people need and develop relationships. The Ridgedale Y
works with Minnetonka Heights, which is not very far from here. During the summer and basically they
drive up in a van one aftemoon and whoever comes and they try to figure out what to do with them and
how to plug them into things and so it really depends on what the community's doing but I certainly think
the service arena would be something that you would see in all programs for teens.
Berg: Absolutely. I mean we've tried for years here to establish some sort of youth center and we've
struggled with what it would be and what it would look like and never got very far at all. Ridgedale for
example, do they have programs where the kids, teens feel comfortable just coming in, I know it's like the
foosball and things like that, but not specifically but things where they feel comfortable just coming in and
it's a place to hang out.
Brian Hubbard: We've dabbled with it and I'll save you my soapbox about youth and teen centers except
to say that the teen centers that Ridgedale is working with right now successfully are teen centers that are
actually happening in direct partnership with the schools and are happening in the school. So Y staff`come
in and there's a designated area and they come after school and in two of the schools in Plymouth and one
school in Hopkins we have that model and it's very successful right now. And the issue is that, okay I said
I wouldn't soapbox but the issue is that you ask any young person in America, what do they need. They
say they need a place to hang out. You provide them with a place to hang out and they don't come. Now
you have taken a huge step in that skate park because they will come to that. But a teen center is an
interesting beast and the learning for me in that previous statement is that it is not the center. It is the
relationships and so it's the people that we put in there as staff and as mentors that are really what draw the
kids to come back and that they feel like they're welcome and it's a place to belong.
Berg: And this is a way off`the wall question but I'll just ask it and then run. Would you ever think of
building a YMCA in conjunction with a library?
Brian Hubbard: Yes. Absolutely. There are YMCA's that, and we have a research department in our
national office that can tell you what YMCA's have worked with everything. There are many YMCA's
that collaborate with hospitals. That's a very common one to help people with physical therapy, etc. But
there are YMCA's that have partnered with communities in the community center concept and libraries or
study centers or computer labs. Those all could be a piece of it so that certainly is, there is, I think there is
no prototype YMCA.
Berg: Because you have some things in common with meeting rooms and that sort of thing that can dove
tail a little bit. That's all.
Lash: Okay, are you done? Thank you. Okay, I have a couple of quick questions too and some I think
have already been asked but you already are kind of dabbling in just programming here, right? So we
could just expand that at this point in time. And what does a membership cost?
Brian Hubbard: Well that's a good task question. Is this being filmed? I should be able to roll this off`my
tongue. I don't work in that end of the business a lot. An adult membership right now is, I'm embarrassed
to tell you that I don't know it for sure, but it's around $45 for a single adult membership.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Commission member: That's what I pay, that's right.
Brian Hubbard: Is that right? Thank you. And we have a dual membership which is a little bit more than
that and then a family membership would be about $63. And the way our fee structure works is that we
have a joiners fee. It's a one time fee at $79 and you don't pay that again, assuming you don't drop your
membership.
Lash: Okay, thanks.
Brian Hubbard: The $79 is one time. You don't pay it again. The other number is per month, yes.
Lash: Okay. How much land for the facility, a facility similar to what we saw in the video, how much
land would you need for something like that?
Brian Hubbard: We typically look at about 10 acres of land and certainly you see land more and land less
but typically in a facility like that you would have the facility which takes up probably 5 acres, parking lot
and then there's usually some ballfields, soccer fields. Those kind of things in the outside.
Lash: Okay. And I know that a lot of the programming in I think, I'll go along with Fred. I just think this
would be fabulous to have and I would like to know from you what you would need from us. You said
you're not in a position to just go out and buy 10 acres and build this $9 million facility. What would you
need from the city to get something like that started?
Brian Hubbard: Well, because it's Chanhassen and as I continue to understand Chanhassen, land is
certainly the biggest issue. I think that we're going at it, if it's a city or if it's a hospital or school district
that we're partnering with, I think we're going at it, help us find the land and figure out how that can be
financed. And make some kind of contribution to this capital campaign and that number I think will be
across the board. I think that a standard ask would be help figure out the land situation and be willing to,
over some period of time, help with a million dollars of the $9 million project. Some communities that
would look like more. Some that would look like less but.
Lash: When you say help to secure land, what do you mean by that?
Brian Hubbard: Well that, I think that depends. I don't know, except that there's not a ton of it. I don't
know the land situation in Chanhassen. In Lino Lakes it was city owned land that they donated and in
conjunction from that, and residents of Lino Lakes have a discounted fees, etc so that was the arrangement
that was there. So they gave the land that was there that they owned and I believe a million dollars is what
they, so I can only give that as the most recent example of a partnership with the city.
Lash: So would any resident in Chanhassen then for any, or as long as they lived in the city, receive a
discounted membership?
Brian Hubbard: Well as we move forward down that road, that would be part of the negotiations. I do not
think Lino Lakes is a life long relationship. I think it's a 15 or 25 year agreement.
Lash: And I'll put this question up and Fred asked one about the library. We have, I don't know how
familiar you are with our layout but right next to us here is the library and then just beyond that is our
senior center and both of those facilities are fairly modest in size and I can see the day where both of those
need to be expanded in one way or another. Maybe the senior center could even be tied in with this
facility or the library which would then free up half of the space for one or the other but actually in the end
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both of them could probably be over there but, I think that's about it for my questions but I would be very
interested in recommending to the City Council that we would try to continue this conversation. Rod?
Brian Hubbard: The piece I'd say about the senior center is, and the library certainly fits in there but, that
video when you look at the hallways and the seating areas and stuff, that was very intentional. I think that
most YMCA directors want their YMCA to be seen as a hub. As a place that the community gathers.
Whether they're members or not. In my previous role working with the Ridgedale Y my job was to be
responsible for all of our Outreach and in our community, our youth programs that happen outside of the
facility. That's why I can't rattle off the fees. And almost all of the participants that we worked with in
those programs were not members but they were in the Y for teen night or for youth sports or whatever and
so the concept of a senior center works perfect in that mix of being a place that is a center for folks. A
gathering place.
Lash: Just one quick question then. For those kinds of things, would you have to be a member to be able
to participate in the senior center or in a teen dance or any of those kinds of things?
Brian Hubbard: Typically not.
Lash: Is that a user fee or how would you do that?
Brian Hubbard: Yes. A teen night for instance, the Ridgedale Y holds a teen night and they have 200
junior high students on a Friday night and if4 of them were members I would be surprised on any given
night.
Lash: Okay, thanks. Rod.
Franks: I don't want to sound like a commercial but I used to be the detached worker at Ridgedale Y.
Brian Hubbard: Did you really? No kidding?
Franks: And the program director at Hiawatha before that.
Brian Hubbard: Great.
Franks: So I was also one of the kids that was raised in the Y and I just think that they create a wonderful
presence in any community. And I think that'd be a great thing to have that kind of presence here.
Whether in a community programming facility or a full facility. My concem is, I remember the struggle
with Minnesota Valley and that took about 20 years to get built. Yeah really, almost 20 years to get built.
And that would be a really frustrating chain of events for a community like our's. And so I know that
what's on our minds is really looking at something more of along the lines of a full facility. We do have
gym space and we do have some programming space. What we really, really lack here is aquatics. Indoor
aquatics. And you know with all the children in this community, something that is really also really child
centered as well with the zero entry pools and some of the water slide and other kinds of things. So I'd be
really interested in looking at what the Y would have to off'er and continuing a dialogue with us about what
our needs really are. And you know if it's focusing on aquatics and paring that 9 million down to 6 V2
million and then sharing some programming space with spaces we already have or doing some kind of work
like that. Sue's very worried over here because our space is already maxed. But I'd be really, really
interested in that. 200 kids for a teen night is great. Hiawatha had packs drop in center after school with
high school kids every day of the week and you know Fred, we talk about how to do it. I really, I believe
the Y certainly possesses the expertise to do that kind of programming. They certainly are able to attract
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energetic people to carry it out. So I'd like you to go back and figure out exactly what the capital budget
would be and what some of the numbers that you can come up with to see what the Y would be willing to
put on the line and see what we can develop here.
Brian Hubbard: Sure. Let me respond with two comments. With regards to Minnesota Valley. The
Minnesota Valley Y is the YMCA in Bumsville and they had, what we would call a store front operation
for 20 years. And at about year 8 they put up a sign on property that I think was a donated purchased
shared mix that said future home of the Minnesota Valley Y. And after 5 years that sign fell over and
they put the next sign up and after 5 more years that sign fell over. And so it was about I think 11 years
later that they actually built the facility. As we've talked about this new development initiative and
maybe I should mention this. When we say new development, the Minneapolis Y's focused on 3 areas.
The Carver County area, the Lakeville-Farmington area, and kind of the northwest corridor, Brooklyn
Park-Champlin-Maple Grove. Up in that area. Those are the areas that staff`had been assigned to have
these dialogues. And one of the things as we embarked on that, all of us having been around for a while,
that we addressed with the powers that be is, that's going to be a question for folks is, are we going to have
rotted signs. Our CEO right now, Harold Mazell has been with us for almost 6 years and has been very
aggressive. You can look at the accomplishments of the last 6 years and see that we have seen substantial
development and he would like the Y to be very aggressive if we decide to move forward in communities,
to make sure that we don't have that embarrassment of 20 years later having to go back and say, where is
this thing and donors saying, give us our money back and those kinds of things. So I think that's a
legitimate concem and certainly one that we have as staff`to make sure that as we plan this, part of the
planning is the feasibility stage and can we make this happen? Can we raise the money for whatever that
is? So, just so you know that that's something we've talked about.
Franks: Are you aware, is the Minneapolis YMCA willing to commit to expanding through full facilities
or are they really looking to expand their programming presence? I mean what are you really looking to
do?
Brian Hubbard: I think that we, well let me answer the question two ways. And I don't, the first thing I'll
say is we're looking to expand programming because that's what we do. And again I don't want to be
clich~ but a facility is the way for us to provide programming. I think we're wide open to it but I do think
that the corporate board wants to be very aggressive and if there are communities that come forward and
say we are interested in working with you on facility development, then that is what we're going to work
on. If communities come back and say we're interested in program development, then that's what we'll do
but I certainly, I mean to directly answer the question, I think that we're fully interested in moving forward
with, or willing to move forward with planning for facilities and capital campaigns, etc, if that's something
that the community would embrace. And then the other thing in terms of cost. Right now we are looking
at the average cost, just so you know of building a YMCA at $150 a square foot. So as you look at, if you
remove a pool, you add a gym, you add 6 meeting rooms, that is kind of the round number that we're using
in terms of how we would figure that so just so you know that.
Franks: Great, that's it.
Lash: Okay, thanks Rod. Dave.
Moes: I think a lot has been covered already. Sounds like a great opportunity. One thing that I think you
had mentioned earlier in one of the major program pieces that you're doing now is working for like
preschool youth sports and I think partnering with school during the summer programs. And maybe this is
something that would come through further discussions. From your prior history and even just starting to
get a feel for Chanhassen, you know if you looked at programs specifically, that of course would
9
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
eventually tie into facilities. What would possibly be the next program that would be like high on the Y's
list that might fit appropriately within a community like this?
Brian Hubbard: Well I guess the real answer would be that I haven't talked to staff`enough to get a feel for
what the needs are. And they certainly have been working in the arena in recreation and social service
much longer than I have here to be able to identify those. So I don't want to cop out of the question but I
think the answer would be, I don't know what that would be. I sense, although we've got the new aquatics
center, I sense a need for aquatics and swimming lesson types of programs as a need. And I sense whatever
that looks like, the area of youth development and specifically at the junior level but as I've met with
school people and city folks, that certainly seems like a nitch that is under served right now. Those would
be two examples.
Lash: Okay?
Moes: Thanks. Great opportunity.
Lash: Michael.
Howe: Thank you. I'm sorry I missed the first part of your presentation and I hope I don't ask anything
that you already covered. You're representing the entire of the YMCA of the metropolitan Minneapolis,
not just Ridgedale?
Brian Hubbard: Correct.
Howe: Okay. Is the YMCA a non-profit corporation?
Brian Hubbard: Yes.
Howe: Okay. Well I can say as a member, what I like about the Y, and you say it right here in this
brochure, is the YMCA will not deny people's participation in YMCA programs and services because of
the inability to pay. So we've talked to some other corporations which have been interested too and in
their own right they were pretty classy, but I think the Y's a little different as far as it's community service
and what they stand for. And I echo the sentiment of many members on this commission when they said
terribly exciting and fabulous. I think it's something we definitely should look into and keep the lines
open. Thank you for coming.
Lash: Okay. Is there anyone who has anything else they want to ask or add?
Karlovich: I just think there's a lot of sites still in the city of Chanhassen where you know the center can
fit in greatly. I know that we have 212 mnning through our community and there's going to be quite a bit
of development there and there's different opportunities where we could partner with MnDot and they
could just acquire an additional 10 acres for us. Or else, I don't know. We talk about Pulte Homes at 41
and Highway 5, how we don't, that's not the entrance to our city but maybe a nice YMCA at that comer
but, I'm very excited and I would hope to see this discussion go farther and someday even have a YMCA
facility here and to provide those type of things and largely the indoor aquatics. You know Minnesota is,
there's two seasons. There's winter and there's the mosquito summer time but there is no real kind of
indoor swimming pool type activity here in our city, or you know relatively close by. Except for the going
to the Chaska Community Center and the thing that bothers me there is always going to there and getting
charged twice what the Chaska Community residents get the same services for so, I've said enough.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Anyone else?
Manders: I would ask, is there such a thing as a YWCA?
Brian Hubbard: Yes. There is a YWCA and in the Twin Cities there are I believe 6 and the YM and the
YW of course started together but they are two very different organizations now. They are run, they are
completely autonomous of one another, and really have different focus. The YWCA is focused primarily
on women and children's issues. They do have health enhancement facilities and workout space. They do
offer a membership but in terms of their community service aspects of their job, their focus is on women
issues and issues for children. Whereas a YM is really more focused on the community as a whole,
whatever that looks like.
Lash: Okay, anyone else? Well I'll ask the question, what should be our next step?
Karlovich: We would make a motion to direct staff`to follow up on it?
Moes: Make a motion to buy 10 acres.
Lash: Well, is it something we would need to send onto City Council first or is this something that we can
direct staff`to at least continue conversations and that kind of thing. Jerry, why don't you advise us.
Ruegemer: I would probably say that would probably be the best approach at this point is to direct staff`to
gather more feedback with Mr. Hubbard and the YMCA. I would hate to take up the City Council's time
on trivial matters at this point. I think we need some type of concrete information to present.
Lash: Susan is there, you're on the edge ofyour seat. Is there something you wanted to say?
Susan Marek: I just wanted to hear everything that's going on.
Lash: Oh okay. It looks like you're ready to spring up there for a minute. Okay. Well given that
suggestion from Jerry, is there someone who would like to make the motion of the direction we'd like staff
to take this?
Franks: I move that the commission direct the city staff`to continue a dialogue with the Minneapolis
Metropolitan YMCA on a presence here in our community, whether that be through increased
programming or development of a facility. And to discuss the various options which might present
themselves and to bring that information back to the commission for review.
Lash: Is there a second to that motion?
Howe: Second.
Franks moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission direct the city staff to
continue a dialogue with the Minneapolis Metropolitan YMCA on a presence here in our community,
whether that be through increased programming or development of a facility. And to discuss the
various options which might present themselves and to bring that information back to the commission
for review. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
11
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Okay. Would anyone be interested in, I'll just throw this out, a work session to discuss just amongst
ourselves as far as particular things that we would have, we think that there are needs for or interest in or to
help provide staff maybe with more direction too.
Moes: I think it helps to prioritization on it.
Manders: My guess is that's what would come out of the staff`recommendation when they come back is to
say we may need to formulate some further meetings, work sessions, whatever. Sub-committees. That
kind of thing. Because it...something you can handle in a single session.
Lash: Yeah, no but I would rather provide him, or them with more direction from us rather than them
starting with the whole big.
Franks: Could we suggest that we allow staff`to do some of the initial work with the YMCA. Pull some of
the information together and then at their direction, if it looks like it's actually us to schedule a work
session to go over it and pull it all together in a way that we see fit and then as more of a presentation at
that point. Because I understand what you're saying. I agree. If this comes back to a formal meeting like
this, it is difficult to maintain that give and take dialogue about actually getting down and working out
some of the details based on the information we have.
Howe: For instance, along that line. I mean we talk about, you talked about ballfields. Sure, that'd be
great. We have a lot ofballfields. We have Bandimere. If we can shave 10 acres to 6 acres because we
don't need any ballfields. Not that we don't need them but things like that.
Lash: But I mean there's just so much. There's so much that we would need to throw out and hash over
and I think everyone kind of has particular things they're like to maybe see be incorporated into it and
prioritize some of that. Should we wait until staff`comes back with some info and then?...but would that
be the information they could just provide to us the night if we had a special work session. They could
give us that information and then we'd be able to use that.
Franks: That's what I'm suggesting.
Lash: Okay. So we're still going to direct him to get information but then maybe have an off`night work
session to hear everything.
Karlovich: Just have a conversation with Todd and give him the direction and I'm confident he can run
with it.
Lash: Okay. So should we direct him to do that? Once he gets some information together, to call an off`
night work session?
Franks: Are you proposing a friendly amendment to the motion?
Lash: Sure.
Franks: I'm fine with that.
Lash: Are you? Okay. Anyone else? So there's a friendly amendment. Do we have to have a vote on
that? The friendly amendment.
12
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Karlovich: I'll second the friendly amendment.
Lash moved, Karlovich seconded an amendment to the previous motion to direct staff to call a work
session with the Park and Recreation Commission to discuss the information gathered regarding the
YMCA. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Lash: Thanks.
Brian Hubbard: Thank you. I'm very excited to look at what the possibilities be and appreciate the
dialogue and you've all got my phone number in that folder. If you have thoughts or ideas, please feel free
to give me a call.
Howe: Brian, do you work from Ridgedale or downtown?
Brian Hubbard: My office is Ridgedale but I have a share job and for this piece of it I work for our metro
office.
Lash: Okay, thanks a lot Brian.
BANDIMERE COMMUNITY PARK ENTRANCE IMPROVEMENTS.
Lash: I think we had the opportunity to see that in person. Is there anyone, Mike you were there right?
Were you there with us?
Howe: No. I went by there the other day though. I saw what they've done.
Lash: Is there anyone who has questions or comments regarding this before we.
Ruegemer: I think Todd had intended this to be kind of an FYI update to the project. If you saw it first
hand, you'll know how the entrance of the park is tonight and how it temporarily sits with a temporary
barricades. You know the issues at hand with Bandimere. As you can see the options provided in the
packet, both what it will look like with the concrete curbing and median, and then also the sign package
included with that site. Basically it's, as you know, it's going to force traffic to head south a little bit over
the crest of the knoll and then it will then, we should have a better interpretation of decision making when
we pull into our site so that should certainly help and MnDot is I think patiently waiting to see if the local
results work first before they address the bigger issue with the road itself.
Karlovich: We've definitely been a witness an almost accident too so there.
Howe: Tonight you did?
Lash: Yes. Yeah...in the back of a pick-up. Unsecured.
Karlovich: Official demonstration of the need.
Lash: Jay, you and I both commented something on siguage though that I was wondering if there wasn't
going to be, I'm not sure if little rectangles with the diagonal lines, is that supposed to be showing what
some kind of siguage is supposed to be because if it is, I'm not aware of what those signs mean.
Ruegemer: The ones that are kind of by the little bushes here?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Yeah, and then the one right out on 101.
Ruegemer: I think what that is, it's signifying just notification of the median.
Howe: Those things that stick up, the reflectors.
Lash: Oh, okay.
Howe: At night so you can see that.
Karlovich: I think our only question for the designer was, is there going to be any confusion to just taking
the left?
Ruegemer: Well that has been a concem at this point, and hopefully with concrete curbing and the
position of the concrete median, that should force people to, in a southerly motion to come in there.
Lash: But would it be out of line to have a sign that just says exit only or.
Berg: Do not enter.
Lash: Do not enter. I mean I could see that I would be one that would try to do that. Something that's,
okay is there a motion for that?
Ruegemer: I don't know if we need one.
Lash: Don't need one? Just FYI, okay.
Ruegemer: ... and then it will be handled administratively to get done.
2001 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROGRAM, PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION.
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
(There was a tape change at this point in the discussion.)
Lash: ... You know we may want to consider.
Howe: Moving it up a little bit.
Lash: Yep. And what did we have budgeted for that?
Howe: $20,000 in 03.
Lash: And our entire budget is $200,000 for next year so I'm estimating we could probably go the 220
and it wouldn't be unreasonable for us to anticipate.
Berg: Is it needed Mike, do you think?
14
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Howe: Honestly I don't spend a lot of time there during the day. From the people I've talked with in my
neighborhood, they do draw a lot of the other neighborhoods in the area. I believe it's needed from what I
hear. I haven't seen that first hand and I rarely, ifI go to a party or something, people who know, if they
know what I do, you know they... So I think there was a need and I don't think they're making it up.
Berg: Because it's rare we get this kind of pressure to move that quickly.
Howe: That's what I mean.
Lash: Actually it's not that quick. How long has that been in?
Howe: 5 years. 4 years anyway.
Lash: Well you have to figure it was in, how long ago did we put that trail through the gully? That's been
a couple years.
Berg: Just a couple years.
Lash: And it was in before that by at least a year or two so I'd guess 4 or 5 years.
Berg: I wasn't being sarcastic. It is rare that we get this many people getting this upset about it.
Howe: There's 142 homes there and you've got that the Oaks and you've got the neighborhood behind it
and you have across the street. There are a number of neighborhoods that play there.
Berg: I think because we've expanded to those other neighborhoods is justification enough.
Lash: Well if it's been 4 or 5 years, we've got it slated way out to 2003. That's 8 years from Phase I to
Phase II. That is a pretty long.
Berg: Was anything done with the referendum?
Franks: Is this the neighborhood park for the Oaks, Stone Creek and Trotters Ridge? Is that the identified
neighborhood park? For all three of those developments?
Howe: Well there's another one behind it too. Timberwood.
Lash: Timberwood doesn't have many...
Ruegemer: That's closer to the Rec Center.
Howe: More than the Oaks does. The Oaks is pretty.
Lash: But the one on the other side of 17 .... Is that what that's called? That's what I thought was Trotters
Ridge.
Howe: Yeah, that's the...
Lash: Trotters Ridge. I know this is the designated park. I didn't want that. I wanted on their own side of
the road but we didn't get it so. Does anybody have any other adjustments they'd like to discuss?
15
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Howe: 2001 do you think for that?
Ruegemer: 2001, Stone Creek.
Lash: Yes.
Ruegemer: $20,000?
Lash: Yes.
Karlovich: Otherwise I thought we put a lot of time in this before.
Berg: I think down the line we might have to look at Meadow Green. I just got a real quick look down
there today and the equipment sort of looks like it's leaning. I think we might not be able to wait until
2003 for that one but I don't think we have to do it next year.
Lash: Where do we have that?
Berg: 2003.
Lash: Oh.
Berg: And that's not even Phase II. It's just replacing what's been there for.
Lash: 20 years.
Berg: 15-20 years. Dam close to 20 years.
Lash: What else do we have in 2002?
Ruegemer: The major bulk of it is the wanning house for City Center. Do you want to move that up into
20017
Berg: No...
Lash: You know there's just so many large projects on line that we're like plunking one offa year.
There's about all we can do. Curry Farms.
Berg: We have to get that trail in.
Franks: I know at one point we talked about Curry Farms.
Ruegemer: The playground.
Franks: The playground equipment and it's the old style but it's still serviceable I guess.
Ruegemer: It's wood.
16
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Franks: So waiting until 2004, that's going to be the oldest play equipment left in the city just about. The
other concem that I have is something we might be able to do immediately. I know we discussed changing
the direction of that field and allowing the wetland to really just go back to wetland. Rotating that.
Ruegemer: That's certainly a topic for discussion.
Franks: So I don't know what that would include. Re-grading. Moving of the backstop and then.
Ruegemer: We could do that in-house.
Karlovich: That's the sinking...that's where my daughter practices soccer. It's just terrible.
Franks: It's terrible.
Karlovich: I mean it's just very wet all the time.
Franks: I mean if we could just even do that this year in-house and show that something is being done
there you know and then we can tell people the rest is coming and really consider looking at our budget
again at the end of 2000 and seeing if we can move that up.
Lash: That playground, Curry Farms went in about the time I think I got on the commission. So that
playground equipment is not, I mean that's a long time now but.
Franks: I think it's about a 15 year life on that was expected.
Lash: So I bet you 2004 is probably 15 years.
Franks: Yeah, right and that's I think, because I remember the discussion. That's why we put it there. We
went out to what the expected life of that equipment. Jerry, I know like in Chan Hills they did some kind
of combination. They tried to salvage as much of the wood structure as possible and then added to it with
some new stuff`to kind of diminish the cost. Is there any kind of short term fix like that we could do to that
equipment?
Ruegemer: We can certainly take a look at that. I mean that's like a band-aid type of, and we can
certainly try to make some changes to that to show that there is some type of progress down there. We can
take a look at that and present it to the commission.
Karlovich: I just wonder if that whole park needs to be re-designed at some point. You can't even get off`
of the trail without getting wet feet. It's just you know, maybe build up some area and abandon the rest.
Franks: Well that's what we were thinking about with the.
Karlovich: Maybe a pond or something.
Berg: We'd have to have a community, we'd have to have a mailing to let them know.
Lash: Okay, anybody see anything else?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Manders: The things that I think about in terms of small items are trail connections that we're lacking that
aren't necessarily long distances. I don't know if say for example the connection between, I don't know
what is that Fox development offofPleasant View coming back. Did that ever get?
Ruegemer: I don't think that's been resolved with the Kryslers. I don't know ifthat's been resolved yet.
Manders: Where there's a small connection point that we could hook to see together that are out there.
And that's one that comes to mind. I'm guessing there probably are others.
Howe: What's the status of Round House? Last I heard, weren't they doing another structural review
again?
Ruegemer: Yeah. There's been some issues with the landscape type of architect versus the structural
architect from the site. That has been basically resubmitted for different renderings. That information
should be available very soon. With the price estimate and all that information should be ready to go.
Howe: So we have $40,000 budgeted for this year so we haven't, is it going to start yet?
Ruegemer: Oh it's definitely going to, it's not starting yet but it's definitely going to happen in 2001.
Berg: Isn't that really $80,000? Didn't we have $40,000 from the referendum?
Ruegemer: Correct.
Howe: One other thing, Stone Creek had a meeting last week and speaking of trails that Jim brought up.
There's a trail that runs from a spur off of Stone Creek to that Timberwood. There's a little, do you know
where I'm talking about there?
Ruegemer: Where the barricades are at?
Howe: Yes. Well apparently at night there's a lot of vehicle traffic. They're coming through there. Is
there anyway they can put posts there or something because some of the neighbors, the neighbors on that
spur just mentioned that. I've never seen it but.
Ruegemer: Or if we open it up?
Howe: I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
Ruegemer: I'll write it down.
Lash: Okay, anyone else? Okay, so you'll pass that onto Todd?
Ruegemer: I took notes on here.
Lash: So really would we need to make, do we need to make a motion to move Stone Creek up?
Ruegemer: I would probably think that'd be a good idea.
Lash: Okay. Can somebody make that motion?
18
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Howe: I move that we move the $20,000 slated for Stone Creek Park in 2003 to 2001.
Lash: Okay, is there a second to that?
Berg: For Phase II.
Howe: For Phase II.
Berg: Second.
Howe moved, Berg seconded to amend the 5 Year Park & Trail Acquisition and Development Capital
Improvement Program to move Phase II for Stone Creek Park from 2003 to 2001. All voted in favor
and the motion carried unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS: MEMORIAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE.
Lash: Fred and I are designated for a couple of meetings I see this summer. Do you happen to know where
those would be Jerry? The Memorial Committee meeting.
Ruegemer: I do not know where those meetings are currently. We can get that information to you.
Lash: Okay. Will we get something in the mail closer to?
Ruegemer: I would assume.
Lash: That would be good. Anybody have anything on that? Okay. If you have any suggestions or you
know be sure to get to Fred and I.
SKATE PARK PHASE II ACQUISITION.
Public Present:
Name Address
Tim Hughes
Brad McKnight
Anyer Snetzinger
Matt H.
1780 Lake Lucy Lane, Excelsior 474-9158
770 West Village Road, # 104 470-9698
840 Pontiac Lane 470-4494
12738 Gordon Drive, Eden Prairie 941-2847
Jerry Ruegemer presented the staff report on this item.
Lash: Okay, thanks Jerry. Are there any commissioners who have questions on this for Jerry? Mike?
Dave?
Moes: Yes. Actually two quick ones just for my benefit. What's a straight grind rail versus a kinked
grind rail?
Ruegemer: Maybe Mr. Hughes can explain that.
19
Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Maes: The other question I did have is, I was going through the for True Ride there was Phase II, Layout I,
Option I. And then Phase II, Layout II, Option II. Which picture is the Phase II, Layout II, Option II?
Was that in here? The reason I'm asking the question.
Ruegemer: It looks like certain components are kind afmixed in.
Maes: I'm not familiar with the terminology here either but like under Layout I, Option I there's the mini
ramp, which isn't that one that goes back and forth? ...and then Phase II, Option II I don't see that same
terminology so is that in there or is this half pike not in there?
Franks: Well they're recommending Option m.
Maes: And that's this one? I was trying to understand the descriptions with the pictures.
Lash: Well that was your problem.
Maes: Well I understand that. When I look at like Option I they've got.
Lash: Well this one says Option m. Is that what you're looking for? Which one is Option II?
Franks: No but in the narrative description.
Maes: In the first one they've got the 24 foot long kinked grind rail and I'm not seeing that listed in
Layout II, Option II.
Howe: Did you say Layout II, Option m?
Maes: That's my question, is it?
Franks: What I noticed is that for this list af Optian II is the same price that they're quoting from True
Ride but they're suggesting that's the price for Option II so that is a little confusing.
Maes: I'm just trying to understand the description with the pictures. And I was unable to make that
connection.
Berg: You got into it deeper than me so I congratulate you.
Maes: Well, I've never heard afan 18 foot wide piano before.
Lash: No, but did you see where the bid is for Option m?
Franks: Option m is way in the back. That's confusing.
Lash: Right before the 2 year warranty. Keep going. Keep going.
Maes: I can understand all those now. Thank you. We did have an expert out here. Okay.
Lash: Got it now Dave? You okay?
Maes: I'm as far as I'll get with this.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: You're where the rest of us are now. Okay. Any other commissioner questions or comments?
Okay, anybody in the audience?
Tim Hughes: Hello, my name is Tim Hughes and I live at 1780 Lake Lucy Lane. I got a chance to look at
all the bids over the past couple weeks when they came in, or actually the past week as they came in and
Mr. Hoffman and I kind of brainstormed I guess a little and I guess it was done to Option m and Ramp
Tech's. I've done a little research as a skater, more than like on a professional point I've tried to popped
down notes on pluses and minuses based upon a skaters point of view. So first I know, I'm basically going
to bounce offa few things based on what Mr. Hoffman wrote up. First about the half pipe. The transition
on True Ride's new mini ramp versus their old mini ramp is too mellow. Basically the transition is this
part, like that.
Franks: I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
Tim Hughes: The transition on True Ride's mini ramp, the part that goes like this, it's too mellow. It's
almost like flat.
Lash: It's too what?
Tim Hughes: Mellow.
Lash: Mellow?
Tim Hughes: Like mellow yellow. That's I don't know, that's just how the industry says it.
Berg: Maybe too gradual?
Tim Hughes: Yes. Too flat. If that makes any sense. They did have another way. It was almost like a
vert, meaning like a wall once you reach the top and that was too tight so I think they're kind of in the
process of experimenting between the two. But I noticed when I tried out their new, the True mini ramp, it
was very difficult to pump, meaning bend my knees and get speed at the same time. And you know with
keeping my feet on the board at the same time, meaning I would have to push between the transitions with
my foot in order to keep my speed and it was the same with quite a few other riders that I was with.
Lash: Why was that?
Tim Hughes: Because of the distance between the transitions on the mini. The two parts like this.
They're too far apart and it makes it kind of a challenge for riders to keep their speed back and forth.
Because if you haven't leamed how to pump, the transition's really well. It's really easy to lose your speed
if your transitions are really far apart. 42 feet I think actual wall to wall and the transition I think is like
31 or something like that because I think they measure it edge to edge, if that makes any sense. But
between the walls themselves I believe it was like 31 to 32 feet and that's phenomenally big. I mean
distance wise.
Howe: So you're saying smaller? You're saying that should be a shorter distance between?
Tim Hughes: Yeah. And that's why I was kind of, you know I was thinking about that more today you
know as I was looking at the one out in Hopkins. There's a mini there but it's 4 foot but the transitions are
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
the same distance apart but because it is a 4 foot, it helps get you more speed because you've got more
ramp to work with ride down, does that make sense? Okay.
Franks: So what you're saying is 42 feet is too far?
Tim Hughes: Yeah.
Howe: But 4 feet isn't.
Moes: It's 31 feet between the two.
Tim Hughes: Yeah, it's 31 and 42 like deck to deck to deck to deck. The one at my house is actually 21.
21 feet apart so that's a lot different than 31. And can you imagine, I know there's a lot of flat bed space
between that and which me personally didn't, I did not like because I don't like them really close together
so it's like a bowl but I like you know little flat bed and I've seen, to see the same with a lot of other
riders. Basically the object of the mini is not having to take your feet off`the board while riding the mini
ramp. Keep your feet on the board and gain speed by bending your knees. Or riding the transition and
thrusting your body weight down the ramp as you ride. And my experience as a rider I have found with
both Big Daddy's and True Ride that the mini ramps have been both very challenging to ride.
Manders: Can I just ask a question? Are you referring to this type of thing here? This is your?
Tim Hughes: That's the mini ramp, yeah.
Manders: Okay.
Franks: A half pipe consists of the two mini ramps.
Tim Hughes: The two quarter pipes. So when I refer to mini ramp I refer to the piece that's flat a little bit
and goes up the sides. I know with Big Daddy's and True Ride's they've either been too steep or too
mellow. I went and rode, as I told you last meeting that I was at, that I went and actually tried out Ramp
Tech's ramp at Lake Owen, Wisconsin because I didn't want to just say something without trying it first.
I'd personally have to say it was a lot more fun to ride than my own and if it was one of the funnest speed
ramps I've ever ridden. I like the fact that the painted platform. Some of the guys were doing the board
sides and the coping and stuff and it.
Franks: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
Tim Hughes: The platforms are painted like on top in order to keep like free standing water from like
soaking in or something, and I noticed that it... Some of the guys were able to pull some of the stunts like
board slides and lift slides actually on the mini that you don't see a lot coming from riders, a lot easier.
Under these considerations I do have to say bigger is not necessarily better as far as length goes. Wider's
you know better for like the commercial size but lengthwise it seems to be a little challenging. Then above
the boxes, I know the 4 x 8 in my personal consideration is small. I know 3 x 6 or 2 x 4 is pretty small.
The boxes are just the square pieces that sit flat on the ground, if you read Ramp Tech's proposal. I know
they're on there but as far as layouts and everything, I know I've been asked quite a bit, you know are we
going to get boxes because a lot of skaters are expecting that in the first phase because that's just like a
normal option. You see that at a lot of skate parks. And down at Chaska they have boxes, just square
boxes. 4 x 8 and same with Maple Grove and I think a few others. If you guys are really worried about
them getting stolen I'm willing to pay out of my own pocket for them to get anchored into the ground
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
because that's how bad I want them. And I know it kind of seems kind of weird but it's, you know it costs
like 60 bucks to anchor them to the ground, which is really cheap. The huges box that's on True Ride's
third option. I went to Chaska today and I noticed it was, I mean it's down there already so it's, that piece
is already in the area so I thought it'd be better if we focus on like trying to get different things than other
local parks to make sense for.
Franks: Which piece is already in Chaska?
Tim Hughes: The huges box that's on True Ride's third option. And I know, I was sitting there and asked
a few riders, you know who likes this box. Who doesn't and a few of them raised their hands saying you
know we don't like it and there was like one rollerblader in the city that liked it because the can ride
really fast and launch off`it. Very similar to a piece we have up there already but it's just a lot smaller.
Then regarding the kinked rail. I called Ramp Tech before I came up here and True Ride and asked what
the price different is between the kink and the flat, and Ramp Tech said they could like substitute the kink
rail if we wanted it and that wouldn't be a problem. So I know some riders like the kink rail with 2 foot
tall you know where you're starting and you do a board slide or something like that. It's very tall for a lot
of riders. It's hard to launch your board off`that high. A lot of kids I know, like at Chaska and Maple
Grove and Shoreview police themselves so I think if somebody's getting into mischief as far as like even
kidding around, like taking the stuff, I know a lot of kids would probably shut them up. And I know some
kids get annoyed by it but. Overall my personal response, and some of the responses I've gotten from kids
is that the more and more like we ride True Ride equipment is less myself, I know myself, not like it. I just
am getting to the point where you know I'm leaming all the specifications and you know where things can
be changed and I've really been taking notice to detail. I was taking notes down in Chaska. I noticed that
each, most every sheet of the surface was not set flush against each other where they should be. I checked
today for vapor barriers that they place between the top sheet and the plywood undemeath and the vapor
barrier was actually quite wet and some of the sheets were soaked undemeath so, I mean it could be a
problem if there wasn't a big notice to detail... Again, that's about all I really had. But my
recommendation as a skater, I'd like to see, and I sense Mr. Hoff`man has been kind of a diehard on this,
I'd like to see Ramp Tech build the stuff`but if we go with True Ride, which I don't really want to see
happen, but if we did, I'd like to work with Dave Benson up there on trying to get the transition changed.
Just the transition itself. Not the flatbed. I'm not sure about the flatbed or what not. But the transition
itself because it is so mellow and it's hard to pump on the transition itself, meaning the ramp. So it's easy
to lose your speed there and if there is a lot of flatbed, that is also another way to lose speed if you're
not...
Karlovich: Can I ask a question? Essentially what you're saying is you're coming down and you're just,
you're slowing down instead of going zoom, zoom, zoom?
Tim Hughes: Well yeah. The transition when you drop in and you hit the other side. When you go back
into the ramp after doing your trick or whatever. Even if you're just tuming around. You have to pump
the transition, meaning you have to bend your knees and thrust your body weight into it. If you have a
mellow transition, you can't really thrust your body weight into it because there's, I mean it's too flat. You
don't get a lot of stuff`to work with. If it's too steep you don't have enough time to prepare to pump
yourself. You actually just go down and then it's hard to get up the other side because it's steepness, if
that makes sense. I tried to explain that.
Manders: Is this an issue with, depending on what your skill level is?
Tim Hughes: It can be. I know a lot of riders.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Manders: So like amateur amateur, it's a big problem but if you're normal you're okay but if you're really
good it's a drag or how does this work?
Tim Hughes: Well if you're pro you pretty much can ride everything. Make everything work, but for
beginner l can see this is more of a challenge. Challenging ramp if it was built by True Ride. Sothat's
why I say again, I'm more concerned about the transition than I am the actual distance apart. But I was
surprised by the numbers. The lady gave me an estimate over the phone on how far it was between the
banks. She's like oh, I think it's like 31 feet or something between bank to bank. You know it's like wow.
That's a lot of flat bottom space between the two ramps.
Hoffman: When I scale it I get about 23 to 24 feet.
Tim Hughes: Between ramps?
Hoffman: Yeah. So it's not nearly the difference that you've been talking about.
Howe: You haven't had a problem with any of the True Ride equipment out there now have we? Is it
wearing okay?
Hoffman: Yes.
Howe: It seems to be.
Moes: I was going to say what, we keep talking the transition now. What comparison can you make with
the equipment that's out there today and their transition versus mellow, steep or just right?
Tim Hughes: If you look at a quarter pipe it's just, do you know which one the quarter pipe is out there?
Moes: If I'm looking at it, it's on the left or the right? Okay, on the left. Okay.
Tim Hughes: That one's kind of the transition on that can be used as mini, if you had two quarter pipes
against each other.
Moes: Is that considered mellow? Steep?
Tim Hughes: I'm still not sure. I don't ride it as often of that aspect, but they don't use the same. I know
True Ride doesn't use the same template, I think that's what they call it, for the half pike as they do for
like quarter pipe because where it meets the ground or something is different. But I know like if
you.., spine that transition is pretty mellow. And that's actually very similar to the transition on the half
pipe.
Moes: And the spine is the one in the middle?
Tim Hughes: Yeah. The one that goes like...
Berg: You've done an incredible amount of homework with this traveling around the Midwest. Are you
doing this just because you have such an interest?
Tim Hughes: Well I'll be honest with you, about a year ago I was thinking about actually becoming like a
rep for vendors as a hobby when I get older and I think this is good base work. But I really seriously don't
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
think that's going to happen because I talked to Dave Benson about that but he's, you know he's still
thinking about expanding his company in that area and talked to Ramp Tech too and you know, that's a
professional aspect but I think this is my training grounds to leam how to do that. If that makes any sense.
So I think it's more something I'm trying to work with myself on to train myself to make a career, if that
makes any sense.
Hoffman: Tim, would you just talk about your conversations with each of those companies.
Tim Hughes: This aftemoon or?
Hoff`man: No, over time. About your relationship or.
Tim Hughes: Dave Benson, let's see I talked to 3 years ago and was way totally into the skate scene you
know as far as ramps go and everything and I don't know. I asked if he could send me a bid for like
Shorewood, you know from a half pipe and he wrote me up a bid but basically he just laid out some stuff
and sent it to me. Talked to True Ride and Big Daddy and those are other vendors at the same time and I
was in contact with actually Ramp Tech up until like about a year ago. Then I talked to I think his name
is, I talked to a guy by the name of Ryan at Ramp Tech and he did the same thing. But I had more hopes
and dreams as far as a park goes thinking stuff`would be a lot cheaper. So I faxed him like a layout I
thought would be really cool for the city of Chanhassen and you faxed me back and that's when it was like
$90,000. I said whoa. I was surprised and I was like, that was like a year ago so I was thinking wow, I've
got to leam a lot more so Dave Benson, he showed me a list of their prices. As a matter of fact showed me
a list of their prices and I tried to get as much experience as I could on both in both companies as I could
because I think they are to the closest to Minnesota. I think Big Daddy's in Colorado but their stulTs like
I don't know how you use it. Just junky. It's not like fun stuff`to ride. It's mainly made to be set up and
then taken down like after skate demos for like professional skate teams and what not. They're not geared
towards city parks. I was in connection with Spohn Ramps about 6 months ago and tried to leam as much
about their, or Spohn Ramps 3 months ago. Tried to leam as much about that company as I could and I'm
still trying to get word back from them. Finding out if there's any local parks to here. Both companies
have been extremely helpful. I know Ramp Tech's got some positions available up in Virginia, I think
that's where they're located but I don't think my parents would be too cool about me moving but.
Franks: Do you have any current arrangements with any of these vendors?
Tim Hughes: No. I wish I did but no. I have no contracts. No private agreements. No financial. I wish I
had some financial motivation because I'm 17 and money's really cool when you're 17 but.
Karlovich: I have a question for staff`about the bidding process. I picture you have a set of specifications
and you send those out for bid but it seems like we've got different specs coming back or how is, I'm just
wondering how.
Hoff`man: Bidding process is similar to what we've done with playgrounds. Anytime you're under
$25,000 you don't need to go through a public bidding process and soon that will be $50,000. And so,
instead of developing a spec we informed them of the budget, $15,000 and we would like to see proposals
based on needs. In the solicitation letters, based on some parameters that we had.., and the request for
proposals, City of Chanhassen Skate Park Phase II. We asked them to submit a cover letter, equipment
specs, specifications, plan sheet and warranty information for Phase II valued of $15,000 including tax,
delivery, installation. And then it goes on to list the preferred equipment and the height and the other
specifications. And so then you compare these proposals that you get and it's really a contest. Who will
provide the best product at the price point. And then there is some arbitrary issues that go into the
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
decision. One thing that is of issue, which I don't think has been talked about, is the fact that if you look
at the cash value of the equipment on Ramp Tech versus the cash value of the equipment in True Ride, and
it's about $8,500 versus probably some $13,000 and so Ramp Tech coming from Virginia includes $6,500
in freight and installation. And if you think about that in theory, that's $6,500 that you're not getting
product versus the $13,000 of product and $1,500 in delivery. The equipment is a little bit lighter. I do
have a sincere concem about these 4 x 8 fun boxes that would be placed out on there. That they would be
moved around and we, as the commission knows, we have enough issues already over there to deal with
and we don't need additional issues so both proposals are very similar. And I think you just get a little bit
more for your money but these issues of, is it skateable? And again, I appreciate Tim's input in that area.
He's been working with me and the commission all the way along but I have to believe that these people
make ramps which are skateable or they're going to hear about it right quick and they're going to make
some changes. I could not get a hold of Dave Benson as he's talking to Tim. He's in the Virgin Islands I
believe putting in a system so I'll make sure to check on that. If the commission would like to go that
route and verify whether or not Tim's issues are something that Dave agrees with and would be willing to
modify.
Lash: Okay, thanks Todd. Anyone else with a question or a comment for Todd? Okay.
Howe: I don't have a problem, Tim you've been kind of the unofficial advisor since day one and we
appreciate your homework. I don't have a problem making some small changes if other people agree with
that but I'm pretty much sold on True Ride. I mean it's a good job for them. We know the shipment and
freight is a big issue. They're local. I've been impressed with them so far.
Lash: Okay. So given that, how about a motion?
Karlovich: I'll make a motion to direct staff`to go ahead with the True Ride proposal, Option m at a cost
of $14,996.66 or close to there. It looks like the numbers might be a little bit different. And to also direct
staff`to work with our speaker here to, and also with True Ride to see if there's any technical changes that
will make the experience more skateable and better.
Lash: Okay, is there a second to that?
Franks: Second.
Lash moved, Franks seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission to accept True Ride Option
III at a cost of $14,996.66 for Phase II of the Skate Park acquisition and to direct staff to work with
True Ride regarding any technical changes that may be necessary. All voted in favor and the motion
carried unanimously.
Howe: Todd, would it be hard to anchor those fun boxes? Do you think that's something you'd want to
do?
Hoff`man: You could do it. We'd...and anchor them down.
Franks: Would it be like attempting to anchor waste collection binds?
Hoffman: You could put a big enough effort into it to make it permanent but...
Berg: Tim I wish all our citizens got as involved in issues that they had a passion for.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Thanks Tim. Okay, we'll move on to our recreation program reports.
RECREATION PROGRAMS:
LAKE ANN PARK.
Ruegemer: Thank you Jan and rest of the commissioners. Just a basic kind of brief update on Lake Ann,
including going with concessions now for a while. Since Memorial weekend. As you know we've had
kind of cool temperatures and rain in June so it's been somewhat slow. We're approximately about $1,500
to $2,000 behind last year's actual numbers. We did have a, it has been getting wanner as of late so, but
with the beach being closed, we've had just minimal staff and minimal sales out there in the last 4 or 5
days. But we will be hopping up our efforts and getting ready for the 4th of July. We expect a very big
couple days, the 3rd and the 4th down there so it looks like there's going to be warm temperatures and
sunshine the way it looks so we've ordered accordingly from our vendors to keep up with demand. And
we're brain storming with concession staff to streamline and increase our product sales for the weekends so
it's going to be busy out there. So the slush puppies again. Those are great. Last year a big seller. High
profit margin too so it's kind of a fun thing. We have two different sizes down there so if you don't want a
real big headache, you go for the 9 ounce. If you want the big headache...you go for a big one so, but
those have been a popular item. Picnic phone calls have just been crazy. Really slow and then boom.
They hit. It's getting nice out again and people are really starting to kind of think about it so for the most
part we have pretty much the pavilion is booked on the weekends all summer now so I'm sure we'll have,
and you know over $9,000 gained in revenues and anywhere from $1ee to $120 approximately a
reservation so those are coming in daily. Cory being our intem has been helping out with those phone calls
and it's been helping me out a great deal to concentrate on other duties at hand so. The beach opened up
June l0th and will close on August 27th. Again the commission reviewed the contract back in January-
February timeframe so Minnetonka is in place again providing that service for the city again. Other than
that, let's just hope, cross our fingers for warm weather and actually can start really making up some lost
revenues for June so. The 4th of July, June is typically a little slower with school getting out and with the
temperatures we've had and we've really, they kick it into high gear 4th of July so let's keep our fingers
crossed again that we'll have a good year again. August was good too so.
Lash: Can I ask you a quick question? What is the fee for the pavilion at Lake Ann?
Ruegemer: For resident, $1ee. And they fluctuate then by non-resident, Chan business, non-business.
Lash: Thank you. Anybody else with questions? Thanks Jerry.
4TM OF JULY CELEBRATION.
Ruegemer: Tracy's been working hard on that. All the activities are, I'm going to pass out. Did you get a
brochure with your packet?
Lash: No.
Ruegemer: I'll just hand out another one FYI for you. All the events are listed in there. Tracy's added
some nice events this year for that. The 3rd is going to be anchored by...again which is going to be great.
I've heard they've mastered...
Franks: You know that was the one in the movie.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Ruegemer: Yeah, Wayne's World...I can't remember the name of it but the.
Franks: Bohemian Rhapsody.
Ruegemer: There you go. They've mastered that song and so it's going to be a great show again this year.
Tracy has added some food vendors for that and chances are...
Karlovich: There was, I wanted to let you know there were Dippin Dots at the Excelsior Art Fair.
Lash: I know. I told her, they have at the Excelsior Art Fair.
Karlovich: My kids enjoyed them.
Lash: We need to get those. I know they have them at Valley Fair.
Hoffman: Summer job Jan.
Ruegemer: Sounds like the trade fair has higher numbers this year. We're up to 40 businesses are going to
be involved in that this year so that should be great. And then, I'm going to work you for a volunteer list
so I'll pass it around. You can fill your name in the appropriate spot... We have our t-shirts here for you.
Lash: How about the camival games? Have we got plenty of camival games? Is that CAA or PTA or
Hoffman: City of Chanhassen employees.
Ruegemer: Yeah. I mean Tracy's...she's had some different ones and that's something certainly in the
Lash: It seems like there used to be, either there used to be more or.
Hoffman: Less people.
Lash: Less people what?
Hoffman: Same number of games.
Lash: There is the same number of games?
Hoffman: Oh yeah. I think so, isn't there Jerry? Total of about 5 or 6 games for the whole.
Ruegemer: We've added some different ones. The basketball and...
Lash: Okay .... shirts. Who came up with the design?
Ruegemer: Deb Kind and Tracy.
Franks: You know in regards to the shirts, has it been discussed whether it's cost effective to print up some
child size shirts?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: You do and it wasn't, was it?
Ruegemer: I believe Tracy did do mediums this year for that.
Franks: She did? Okay. Because when I was selling shirts last year it was just constant. You know have
you got kid sizes? Do you have kid sizes? Do you have kid sizes?
Lash: Well how about even just getting some smalls?
Franks: Or even if we had smalls and then people were just walking away.
Lash: I think we used to get kid ones and then we got bumt with just tons of kids ones years ago...
Hoffman: We would like to do as many games as we could. It's just a limiting factor of finding bodies
and equipment and space.
Lash: You mean to run the games?
Hoffman: Yeah.
Lash: You can't get like the PTO or what is it called? Is it PTO?
Ruegemer: Yeah.
Lash: They're not interested or the snowmobile club or CAA? None of those people?
Ruegemer: I mean it's certainly...
Hoffman: We have sons and daughters and city employees and city employees.
Ruegemer: Children of park and rec commissioners...
Lash: Okay, well I'm going to move on while you circulate that thing. Anything else that we need to
know about for the 4th? Anybody with questions? Okay. We've got to still keep working on that Dippin
Dots.
RECREATION CENTER REPORT.
Lash: So here, somebody had asked last time about a little update on the child care things. You get kind
of a ballpark idea here of where we're heading with that. I forget who was asking.
Berg: Dave was.
Moes: Oh I may have, yes.
Lash: Okay, so there's some info.
SENIOR CENTER.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: So on the Senior Center, we've got a lot of fun stuff`going on there it looks like.
Berg: Except why in the name of all that's holy would you plan a trip to Austin, Minnesota? Boy oh boy.
Hoff`man: Did you read it?
Berg: Yeah, I did.
Hoff`man: We'll let you know how successful it is.
Berg: I have relatives in Austin. I can't imagine why you'd pay money to go down there.
Hoff`man: Entertainment by the 1999 Miss Austin. Something we couldn't off'er here in Chanhassen.
Berg: You don't even get to go to the company.
Lash: Yeah you do, don't you? Doesn't it say?
Berg: It doesn't say.
Lash: Hormel Museum.
Berg: It's Hormel.
Lash: What?
Berg: You can tell the natives because it's Hormel. That's how it's supposed to be pronounced. It's not
Hormel. Hormel. The family does.
Manders: Hormel's in Mankato...
PARK AND TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT.
Hoff`man: The most notable thing of park and trail maintenance is that we have 15 seasonal employees that
these people manage on a daily basis. That's a big job so if you think about it, that's 22 employees that go
to work every moming for park maintenance.
Berg: That's a lot of grass.
Hoff`man: Grass, trees, shrubs, boulevards. The boulevards are really what's taking it's toll. We're going
to be mapping some work loading in those boulevards. As the city adds more and more boulevards, we're
taking care of those and at some point they're going to equal the amount of care that our park system has.
Boulevards are big. Audubon. Powers. Lake Drive. Coulter. Kerber. Lots of boulevard care.
Franks: Todd, just one thing about the trail maintenance. I was on the Lake Susan trail the other day and
some of those oak tree branches that hang out over the trail are dead. And there's no leaves or live
branches on them at all, and they're hanging completely.
Ruegemer: By the beach area?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Franks: Down from the beach. So in that wooded trail section. West and south. And I just would hate to,
I think if you could have the tree person take a look at them to see if they pose any kind of risk.
Hoffman: We'll take care of them. Yep. We've had two oak trees go down on trails this year. That one
right there, by that neighborhood and then one over at Rice Marsh Lake.
Lash: Well it looked, when I was walking on the Greenwood Shores trail, it looks like a very big tree.
Hoffman: Yeah, they cut all the dead oaks.
Lash: Did they? No, no, no. Just recent, after that. Just like a week or two ago that was right up against
the lake so I don't know if the lake level came up high and then softens up too much.
Hoffman: Near the fishing pier?
Lash: Yeah.
Hoffman: Yeah, it's been there. They tipped it back up. It falls back over so they're going to take it
Lash: Take it out, yeah.
Franks: Another maintenance issue, and I don't know if anything can be done about this at all. We were
down at the Lake Ann beach the other day and the goose droppings were a pretty major problem.
Hoffman: Talked with the lifeguards Friday moming about it. Dale, we've agreed to purchase some
rakes. Dale has purchased those rakes and they will be raking that in the moming and removing that.
Shoveling it up and putting it into buckets. Put it in the trash so it gets the majority of it out of the beach
and then a park maintenance crew will also start dragging it with a time rake behind a tractor to mix that
sand as well. But we're just prefer to get as much of it out of there before we do that. And that's
something the lifeguards have not done in the past and so this will help. We've also talked about the geese
come and visit every moming. We talked about, they're making these new clothesline like retractable
goose fences and we may experiment with that just to keep them off there altogether.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
SKATE PARK SITE IMPROVEMENTS.
Hoffman: You all saw it this evening. It seems to be welcome by the school, the fire department. The
parents like it. We're going to do some restoration work on that berm and get some more seeding in there
because we took away the majority of the seeding that they use on that berm.
Lash: Are you thinking about chaining a bench over by the street too?
Hoffman: Yeah, we'll do that too. Or a permanent installation. The problem with that boulevard is
there's about 45 different utilities through there between here and the fire station so it's difficult in putting
anything permanent in but.
LIONS FIELD, LAKE ANN PARK.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Then we got to see the Lions Field tonight at Lake Ann. That tumed out great. That trail is great.
It's got a big crack in it though already.
Hoffman: Yep. Settlements and we'lljust let it settle and then we'll patch it and let it settle out.
CITY CODE AMENDMENT, ANIMALS IN PARKS.
Hoffman: This amendment is based offofa conversation with a variety of individuals and working with
Dave Potts. Dave Potts is the Sargeant with the Carver County deputies who is assigned to Chanhassen
and works similar to a department head. Comes to all of our meetings and responds back to the Sheriff's
Department on issues. He also agreed that there should be some clarification in the area of where dogs are
allowed and where they are not allowed. The gray area is the fact that the ordinance to date states that
dogs are not allowed in parks period. And over the years we have adopted this unwritten rule that well
people should be allowed to walk their dogs on boulevards, on the city trail systems and then we have
printed officially that you can walk your dogs on public trails through parks. This was of concem to the
public safety officials because then it leaves them without the ability to enforce these ordinances in a
reasonable manner. So they asked for clarification. Working with the attomey's office, the clarification
comes in the area of paragraph B. Walking leashed dogs is allowed on city trails and streets, except in
public beach areas. The person having control of the dog shall immediately remove any feces left by the
dog. The person in control of the dog must have in their possession equipment for picking up and removing
the feces so the pooper scooper law portion of this is an additional item which people have been asking for.
If you think that is reasonable you can request that that be included. If you do not think that is reasonable,
that can be left oftk ... shall be permitted to take any animal, including but not limited to leashed dogs. Or
dogs and cats in parks so. There's the clarification. The best that we could explain it. I'll answer
questions of commissioners. Take your comments and look for a recommendation to the City Council.
Lash: Anybody have a question or comment on that? Jay.
Karlovich: I just think the last sentence in paragraph B should be deleted. I mean is somebody really
going to be busted or cited if they don't have a pooper scooper on their hand? I mean I don't know. And
what is the equipment that.
Hoffman: Plastic bag. Yeah, the Minneapolis cops do it all the time. You've got to have a plastic bag.
Karlovich: Wow. First of all I'll say personally I think dogs should be in parks but I am part of the
minority and I'm going to be able to sway that but I just, I don't know. When I'm walking my dog I
probably won't have, I might not have a plastic bag or something. I don't know. I just think that's just
pushing it a little bit too far but that's my personal opinion.
Hoffman: An aversion to picking up dog.
Karlovich: No, I don't have an aversion to picking it up. I don't know.
Berg: Well it's redundant. I mean the sentence before is you have to remove it immediately so why do
you have to have something visible?
Hoffman: Just more clarification.
Lash: Even if your dog doesn't poop, they could bust you for not having a plastic bag on you?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Berg: Yeah, and that seems really silly to me.
Franks: Well they'll say, I think your dog just defecated on the trail. No, that's not my dog so I don't
need to pick anything up you know and well then it's like back and forth. Is that your dog's do do or
somebody else's? So they're making...
Howe: Well I'm a dog owner and I think from what I've seen on the trails by my house, people just abuse
this all the time so I have no problem with, I carry a bag. I mean it's not that hard. I run with a bad in case
something happens. I think you've got to crack down on this kind of thing. I agree with it.
Lash: You run with a bag all the time?
Howe: I tie it to the leash.
Lash: Oh with the dog. I just thought you meant.
Hoff`man: This is a city wide deal. It's not the pooper scooper part of this is outside of the walking your
dog and as long as you're taking a look at the ordinance.
Lash: I have a dog and I hate to pick up after it but I don't have a problem because it does get pretty gross.
Along the trails.
Berg: And I know I appreciate people when they are picking it up.
Manders: I have no problem supporting this.
Moes: I think it reads fine.
Lash: Okay, so do you need something from us?
Hoff`man: Recommendation to the City Council.
Lash: Okay. Who would like to make.
Manders: I move that this recommendation be accepted.
Lash: Is there a second?
Howe: Second.
Manders moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City
Council approve the ordinance amending Chapter 14 of the Chanhassen City Code concerning animals
in parks. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Franks: Chair, ifI could just make one comment in addition to this. I am also concemed that dog owners
in this city have someplace to recreate their animals off`leash. And what I would like to do is, if the
commission agrees, is to direct staff`to see if they can identify any place in the city where we could have
the designated off` leash area for their dog.
Lash: Doesn't Minnewashta have one? I was thinking they did.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Hoffman: No. We've talked about this in the past and just broad overview. I cannot identify a location in
a city park. The one I thought about is in Lake Susan to the west of the ballfield on the lakeshore there.
This little pond which will be a very nice place for people to swim their dogs. It's small. It's adjacent to
other facilities but it's a possible location. Marty Walsh of Minnewashta, Carver County Parks at Lake
Minnewashta would like to include it in the new master plan for the park. They're very popular and metro
wide these have been going in regional park systems and so it's appropriate that Carver County continue to
look at it. If those commissioners will direct me on this, send Marty a letter on your behalf asking him to
again pay some attention to that. And that, you know I'll report back as well if there's any other locations
that we are really land poor when you think about it. We are maxed out. You know we've talked about it.
Disc golf is very, very popular. It's similar to what's going on here with the skate park and we couldn't put
one anywhere. We don't have a location for this little disc golf thing for the teenagers so. Eden Prairie
has one. It takes about 3 or 4 acres.
Karlovich: Are the dogs allowed at Minnewashta?
Hoff`man: No. No. They've written a hundred citations here this past, they really cracked down at Lake
Minnewashta. Right now they're allowed on leash on certain trails but people have them off`leash and
there's a lot of issues out there so.
Franks: This wouldn't give Herman Field a new purpose in life?
Hoff`man: Oh boy. It would never happen. You need some space you know because you've got dogs
interacting.
Lash: Well and it can't be something that's got a street around all sides.
Hoff`man: These are fenced. These are fenced.
Franks: Right, they're fenced in. But I mean there's no, if the dogs are never allowed in the parks or on
any of the fields, there's no place to do any training.
Hoff`man: Yeah, people do it all the time at the Lake Susan access. All the time.
Franks: Right, right. And that's what I'm thinking. It really works out pretty well there. At the far end of
that field.
Hoff`man: They train dogs in the soccer field at Lake Ann. They train dogs in the soccer field at
Bandimere. People do it. I talk to people when I see them. The Sheriff's pay little attention to it
currently unless there's any.
Lash: Well it kind of depends a little bit, not that I'm inclined to encourage people to break the law or
anything. But if it's in the middle in the winter and you take your dog out in some park and play catch, I
mean who's going to care that much? It's I think where people, where we need to really clamp down is
ballgame nights and having your dog tied to the fence and having them run around in the ballfields when
everybody's using them. But it's way different if it's the time of year I think when really nobody else is
out there who really would care.
Hoff`man: I get a lot of calls on dogs. They're, and mostly they're complaints. But then there's also
people who would like to see them in parks. They are a distraction. Mainly a distraction for these
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
activities that you have going on, and then there's also the issue of, they're not following the rules.
They're a distraction and they leave behind things that are unpleasant when people don't pick up after
them so.
Berg: Well if you have a lot of little kids around, if you don't know the strange dog, you don't know the
strange dog. I mean that can be a concern for parents too.
Lash: Okay. Anything else?
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS:
Howe: You saw the lonely pictures on the back of your... Jerry's done a great job. His committee is
cranking out, we've got preliminary shirts. We have tie in's now, we're trying to get the Vikings, KFAN.
We're moving along there. Making some headway.
Lash: KARE 117
Howe: KARE 11. They're still, haven't heard from those guys in a while but yeah, that's still open. I
wouldn't say we're dead yet so things are progressing and again, Jerry's done a great job and the people
over at Americhm are fantastic.
Lash: Saw the little thing in the paper so they're already starting.
Howe: Yeah, they're going to give us a couple free advertisements. They're going to start to a story, is it
a story once a month now from now til September?
Ruegemer: Special interest story on you know, one idea was with Tony Schiller on the world class
Triathlete here in town. We talked to Tony about getting involved in the race. He's been invited to some
of the committee meetings and it looks like his schedule is open that weekend so it looks like he will
participate. We're really trying to get that angle in it. Trying to give it some credibility to give it kind of
a fun spin.
Berg: That's so classy flying her out here with her two kids. That is such a nice touch.
Ruegemer: Thank Earl Billkarth from Travel Advisors who picked up the tab on that. Been very, very
generous.
Howe: The donations are incredible. People come to us. The community and say what can we give you?
We'll buy the shirts. We'll buy the tent. We'll pay for the port-a-potties. It's just, they're giving us a
mountain bike at their cost, this new bike shop.
Lash: Is that the prize? Is there prizes?
Howe: That's the grand prize. That's anybody who enters, if we pull your number can win this mountain
bike. So yes, there are some nice prizes, including restaurant. The hotel accommodations for the actual
contestants who want to run. But you can still win a bike.
Berg: Define run?
Ruegemer: You can walk it.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Well that's the thing. Some people get...
Berg: Can we start at the halfway point if we promise not to take a prize?
Lash: Fred and I want to start about an hour and half.
Berg: I always wanted to be there when somebody else came across the line. Just once.
Manders: Has there been a decision as to where in Lake Ann this starts?
Ruegemer: It will start right down.
Manders: By the beach?
Ruegemer: Close to the turn around area. That's about the start of the race and starting at that point and
you end up at the Americlnn front door is practically 3.1 miles so.
Lash: Is that it for you Mike?
Howe: That's my report.
Lash: David, do you have anything?
Moes: Nothing.
Lash: Rod?
Berg: I do.
Lash: You do?
Berg: Yeah. The Library Commission Task Force met last night for the first time. We're talking about
philosophy of what the new library should look like. And ultimately what it would cost and how much we
should ask for in the referendum. There's a public meeting that I'm encouraging all of you to come to next
Wednesday at 7:00 1 believe right here, to get public input into what they'd like to see in their library and
we're encouraging everybody and their family and friends to show up so they get some real clear ideas for
vision.
Manders: See it and where do to see it?
Berg: A real preliminary at this point. It's not like how many tables do you want? But what do you
envision using a library for and what would you like...
Manders: Would it be like the old Pauly's site or?
Berg: No. They're talking new add on this direction evidently. Keeping it, right now they'd like to see it
have an identity with City Hall but they're talking, he had mentioned last night that it's big. Good size.
He's talking it would be about the size of the old Ridgedale library before they did their renovation so like
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
a collection of ultimately of 100,000 books. And again, they want some ideas on where to go technically
and that sort of thing so come next Wednesday.
Hoffman: Some members of the Chamber talked about that we need to make sure that this does not
remove this area from being able to still host festivals in the downtown area so they physical layout, had
that been considered at the City Center Commons and the Mayor responded that they're looking at that as
part of it.
Berg: That was my concern. I made a note to ask you about too. We don't want to lose a lot of park
space or available land here for this.
Hoffman: It's going to have a dramatic impact on it and there's no doubt it will limit the ability to host
certain events.
Karlovich: Maybe we should just put it where the bowling alley is.
Hoffman: There's been no location discussed. My concem is we're on a fast track schedule. You know
we're what, a couple months away from the vote so.
Berg: September's the vote. September 12th.
Hoffman: People are going to need to know a long time before that so.
Lash: Okay, are you finished?
Berg: That's it.
Lash: Jay, do you have anything?
Karlovich: No.
Lash: Jim, do you have any committee things?
Manders: No.
COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: None.
ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET.
Lash: I had one quick thing on the mosquito control. You know as some of us will recall, this was a major
issue quite a few years ago. So is this still in line with that decision?
Hoffman: Yes. They may not be communicating. I had a call from a citizen today that believes they were
spraying adultricides in the park. We have not talked in person. And if that's the case, I'll contact them.
Lash: Okay, anyone else have anything? Fred, did you want to...
Berg: Yes I did. I'm waiting for Ron to get done with his bike ride and we're going to get together again.
Lash: Okay. And then on the Round House drawing, what's?
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Hoffman: This was selected from about 8 concepts as a reasonable design to move forward with. If you
agree with that, we will finalize that and get the plans and specifications out on the street.
Lash: You wouldn't want to have I suppose any more windows?
Hoffman: The openings that are there are the openings that we're working with because it's the structure.
The budget is so limited if we start making dramatic changes. We thought about moving the door to the
other side, closer to the skating rink and we're just going to drive this project right through the ceiling.
The concept here is to let some light in during the daytime and let some light show out in the evenings.
Through those top windows, around the perimeter. The other schematics changed the character of the
building to a larger degree, which we really didn't feel comfortable with.
Lash: Are those little windows all the way around the top?
Hoffman: Yes.
Lash: Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. That's kind of what I had in mind, was just more up there.
Berg: And it's all open on the inside?
Hoffman: Open on the inside. They're waiting for it to be done.
Lash: What are those two lines? Is that some kind of a support thing?
Hoffman: Cables for... Did you notice the e-mail from Mary Rumble?
Lash: Yeah. We included in the 2001. We upped the, because we've had more than.
Hoffman: And they're going to be coming back.
Lash: Yeah. We've had several requests for that particular site so.
Hoffman: They're putting together a presentation and so I would expect it might be the July meeting.
Lash: So maybe that's something that can be communicated back to them but then also it'd certainly be
nice to have some involvement from them over the winter so that we could put it all to bed and... Okay,
anybody else have anything in this packet? Okay, anything else? Anybody have anything?
Manders: Just one comment. I appreciate Todd's updates on his e-mails.
Hoffman: You'll be seeing more. It works very well.
Franks: Works good.
Hoffman: If things change in your e-mail let us know.
Lash: You know mine, I don't have it for the summer so.
Hoffman: Yeah, I'll call you.
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Park and Rec Commission June 27, 2000
Lash: Actually I'm working on my husband for it so we may actually get intemet some day.
Howe moved, Franks seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in
favor and the motion carried unanimously.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Director of Parks and Recreation
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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