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CC Minutes 1-12-09City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 ARBORETUM SHOPPING CENTER, 7755 CENTURY BOULEVARD, KLMS GROUP, LLC: REQUEST FOR A MINOR PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) AMENDMENT TO ALLOW A DRIVE-THRU AND SITE PLAN REVIEW; LOT 2, BLOCK 1, ARBORETUM SHOPPING CENTER. Public Present: Name Address Mark Leutem 4645 Vinewood Lane North, Plymouth Lynne Etling 7681 Century Boulevard Kate Aanenson: Thank you Mayor, members of the City Council. As was indicated there’s a couple applications before you tonight. One is for a PUD amendment to allow a drive thru and then a PUD amendment for the site plan and then including adoption of Findings of Fact. This nd originally went to the Planning Commission back on October 22. At that time the Planning Commission did concur with the staff against the recommendation for a drive thru. This item th appeared last before you on November 10 to review the actions that were made at the Planning Commission and I think we had a pretty lengthy discussion regarding the application of the drive thru and it was directed, you directed the staff to, we worked to try to resolve those issues so I’m happy to report that we’ve made some fairly good strides on that itself. First I’d like to again put this in context of where the site is located. It’s located off of Century Boulevard, which is just to the east of Highway 41 and just north of Highway 5. A shopping center. Again when this application originally came in a number of years ago, fast food was proposed for this site. At that time it was considered a coffee shop and was not proposed. But since then the applicant has worked to find a different type of use to fit in that. So this is the approved shopping center that was built. There’s actually a couple of buildings on there. One is a gas station which this subject site is. Lot 2, Block 1 includes the gas station so the business that we’re talking about with the drive thru is incorporated into that building itself, and as you recall in your November meeting there was some discussion as to what type of use could go in there. What would be the maximum square footage. How would we quantify that? The City does have standards for different types of drive thru, parking requirements which would differentiate between a dry cleaning drive thru, a pharmacy drive thru and a fast food drive thru as far as stacking, so those are some of the design standards we looked at with this application. So the other building is a strip center to the north, and that’s this building right here. And then you have the Edina Realty and the other restaurants that are in there. One of the things that I wanted to point out that we looked at with this application itself is, the internal parking here, there is shared parking among the uses. If you look at the internal parking between the buildings and the orientation, when we looked at this application where the driveway is, and I’ll speak to that in a minute, we felt it was important that the access surely should be on the north side of the building in relation to how the center is being served. To get into the gas station you’re actually kind of coming at an angle itself. So again we did provide new Findings of Fact but I wanted to go back and just kind of re- visit some of the things that we talked about, and that’s that the building itself is 5,500 square feet and of that there’s the 1,500 for the restaurant. Again some of the concern was how that would fit in there. So with the 3 applications for the PUD, the drive thru, we are recommending 5 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 approval and if you look in the staff report, some of the things that we talked about was, with this we did go to the other operation and observe how it operated and looked at the stacking. It does comply with what we have already in our city code for stacking length. The concern that we had as a staff working with engineering is the original design and the blocking of the traffic. If you look at the first proposal that came in there wasn’t this green space and you crossed in front of the walkway and so the applicant did provide a revised drawing where you have more controlled access and one way so we don’t have that cross parking issue, and so we have one way going to parking and then one way through the drive thru. But we wanted to go one step further, again going back to what I mentioned on the orientation of that building. Access to the other strip center is really on that south side and it seems to make some sense to have access to this on the north side. Then it’s all encumbered in that same area. So what we were recommending is that the access to get into the front door, which is right here, be relocated on this north side, so this is the staff’s proposal, and we have met with the applicant, and that’s what the staff is recommending for that change. Again we have PUD standards in here regarding the parking stalls. It does meet all the underlying standards as far as the number of parking spaces. Again it meets what we believe is the engineering standards as far as access and control. And I just wanted to go and show you one other thing and that would be the revised interior, so this would be the new front door on the north. This area up in here and that could, would meet code as far as building code. We have reviewed that with the building official and then this door could be eliminated, and again that provides a better access. So one of the conditions we did provide again was the discussion that we would limit to the 1,500 square feet of this use itself so it didn’t creep into the gas station portion and become some use that we hadn’t intended. It wouldn’t meet the standards as far as parking and that sort of thing. So with that staff is recommending approval of the, the motions are laid out for you. Again for the drive thru. And again this would apply for this site only. For this business. For the square footage. And there’s a amended site plan as the staff is showing with the driveway, or the front door moved to the north, and then also the adoption of the Findings of Fact and I’d be happy to answer any questions that you have. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any questions for staff at this time? Mr. McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Yeah, I have one question. If you go back to the way the new layout is with the door to the north side and you’re talking about eliminating the door on the west side. Kate Aanenson: It could be eliminated. Councilman McDonald: Okay, because what I was going to ask was don’t you need two egresses for fire code? Kate Aanenson: No, there’s already, there’s just one right now. Well, it would work. There’s adequate. They could make that a non, it doesn’t have to be as large of a door. It could be an emergency access only coming out, yes. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Okay. Kate Aanenson: It wouldn’t have to be the primary. Right now it clearly looks like the primary entrance. 6 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Councilman McDonald: Okay, and they have agreed then to go with the plan for the north entrance and to relocate the patio. Kate Aanenson: It has been presented to them. Councilman McDonald: Okay. Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure we got final concurrence on that. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I just wanted to make sure what it was because there’s about 3 drawings and I’m looking at an Exhibit A and it seemed like okay, that seemed to be in line with what you were talking about and I was under the impression maybe that they’ve agreed with you but okay, thanks. Councilman Litsey: In terms of making that change structurally, that’s a pretty easy, I mean is there some cost associated? Kate Aanenson: There is some cost associated with it but structurally it does work. It’s not. Councilman Litsey: It’s doable? Kate Aanenson: It’s doable, yes. We did have the building official look at it based on the plans. Councilwoman Tjornhom: I have a question. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Can you go over with me again the walking path. If I’m going to park my car on the west side. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. If you look at this picture here. So if you’re over here. So what we’re doing is taking these parking spaces out and these, so the additional parking is now located down here. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Right. But where’s the walking path to the door? Do you still have to. Kate Aanenson: This sidewalk is still here. Councilwoman Tjornhom: But you still have to walk across or through the oncoming traffic? Kate Aanenson: No. No. You wouldn’t have to be tied up into that oncoming traffic. Again some of the parking may be in this area too. Not all of it has to be here but you can cross over. Come up this and come into this sidewalk here. 7 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Mayor Furlong: But you would have to, if you park on the western most parking spots there. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: The area that’s to the left of the one…as we’re looking at the screen, you’re going to have to cross the drive thru traffic. Kate Aanenson: Correct. At some location, correct. As opposed to between the menu board and the cars that are waiting at the window. Maybe folks seen looking at the building as opposed to where they would be looking to where the car traffic would be coming, if that makes any sense. Mayor Furlong: And with the door on the north side, would there still be sidewalks around? Kate Aanenson: Yes. This sidewalk would remain. This is the sidewalk that’s in place right now. This sidewalk right here. It’s hard to see with that gray. That one’s currently there right now and that would continue to have access. Mayor Furlong: And then is the applicant’s proposal on this picture here, is that the existing configuration? Or is that. Kate Aanenson: That’s new. The patio would be new. Mayor Furlong: The patio is new either way? Kate Aanenson: Yep. And then that would be, provided this sidewalk coming down. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So the patio, the orange on both of those is new under either proposal? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: It’s new. It’s not existing. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Yes. Mayor Furlong: Councilwoman Tjornhom, other questions? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, it still seems precarious to me looking at where the handicap parking stall is. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Councilwoman Tjornhom: That you, if you’re handicap you’re still going to have to go against the flow of traffic. I mean what is your safe path to get to the door? 8 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: Well in looking at this drawing, this is where the handicap spot could be. That can easily be moved and I think that would be a recommendation that we put that where it has better access to where the front door lands, or on this end up. Where that front door is. Mayor Furlong: North west. Up near the patio? Kate Aanenson: Correct. I mean the handicap stall could be moved to the north and that could be re-striped. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay, and. Kate Aanenson: Or even it could be on the north side. The law just states it has to be so many per parking spaces. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah, it just looks like kind of an awkward spot especially like a day like today when you’re trying to, if they were trying to like say you’re in a wheelchair and trying to get out. Kate Aanenson: I would concur and I believe that was put in place because that was the current door location so wherever that primary entrance is, I would agree with you that we should make that a condition that it be relocated to where that would fit best. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Councilman Litsey: When you’re parked on the south side, the newly created parking spots, what would be the pedestrian route for there? Would it be on the other side of the building? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, you can actually go around. I’m sorry, I keep flipping back but you can, so if you’re down here, you can go up this way and around too. Councilman Litsey: That would probably be presumably the way you would want to go or? Kate Aanenson: Um yes. Again there isn’t a lot of parking in that northern parking lot of the building. Over in this area here, correct. Councilman Litsey: So that means if they’re parking there business is good? Kate Aanenson: Well it’s a shared parking and they all do that now. If you go over to what, the two other restaurants over there now, there’s shared parking and those peak hours of restaurant but again with the drive thru, that’s going to be a large portion of their lunch time traffic, and we did go and observe that at their other location in Eden Prairie to see how that was functioning too. Councilman Litsey: Okay, thanks. 9 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Mayor Furlong: Other questions? Ms. Aanenson, as long as you have those pictures up there with that south parking. By turning this into one way, is that going to be a natural flow for the car wash as well then? I mean cars pretty much line up back towards that… Kate Aanenson: Yep, and I believe that’s what engineering felt was the strong recommendation too looking at that layout, that that seemed to make the most sense for stacking. Mayor Furlong: For the overall development. The stacking requirements that are on page 5 of the staff report. The layout. The number of vehicles, stacking vehicles for type of use. Is this, did you say this is currently in our ordinance? Kate Aanenson: We recently adopted this with some of those code changes. Mayor Furlong: Right. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: That’s why I thought it looked familiar. Okay. And item (h) there, the limitation on the square foot. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Is that specific this PUD? Kate Aanenson: Yeah, what it says is for, what it should really probably read a little more clearly as recommended by the city attorney, like a drive thru restaurant. It does not say fast food but a drive thru restaurant would not exceed that. Again, that’s. Mayor Furlong: So a drive, a restaurant basically would… Kate Aanenson: That’s what it should say and that’s what the city attorney had recommended, just kind of changing that tweak on that and, because the concern was that, that the revenue wasn’t so great on the gas station side, you could kind of creep that into it and if it becomes bigger than what we intended, because the parking’s based on that square footage. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Okay, and does this, this portion of the building meets this requirement? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: But this is, (h) is PUD specific. The others are consistent with our existing ordinance. Kate Aanenson: Yes. It is the underlying zoning district for neighborhood business district does meet that and then, the stacking which would be the additional level, would also comply. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Alright. Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this point? 10 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Councilman Litsey: One last thing with the one way traffic direction. Does that help flow the th traffic back to 78 Street better do you think? Or, I know that was one of the concerns where that’s going to go. Kate Aanenson: I would think so that you maybe would circle back around. We talked about the U turn and it was pointed out that that sign that was originally recommended is still not in place but I think I would agree with you Commissioner Litsey that that, Councilman Litsey, that that may come, you know force that to come back out this way as opposed to cutting through and trying to make that U turn, which is one of the, that bigger circulation which kind of goes back to the gas station or the car wash that they would make that movement, and that would be a goal. To try to get some of that turn movement. Councilman Litsey: Okay. Because I know that was one of the concerns. Yeah, I noticed that no U turn sign’s still not up on Century Boulevard. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yeah. Councilman Litsey: That’s still the goal to get that? Kate Aanenson: Yes. The City Engineer is aware of that. Councilman Litsey: Okay. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Any other questions for staff at this time? Is the applicant here this evening? Good evening. Would you like to address the council on any items? Mark Leutem: Yes I would. My apologies for being late. I was sliding through the broken glass and twisted metal coming down here. I live in Plymouth. It took me an hour and a half to get here. Anyway, and not hearing all the discussion. Mayor Furlong: Excuse me sir, if you could state your name and address. Mark Leutem: Oh I’m sorry. Mark Leutem and I live at 4645 Vinewood Lane North in Plymouth. Not hearing all the discussion earlier like I said, I just walked in the door here but I did look through, certainly I’m very happy about the aspects of the drive thru. We had, you know this is the direction I know we needed to go with it. Really not much issue there. There are probably finer things I would maybe bicker about but I don’t think they’re worth addressing. Last week Sharmeen brought me in and talked about moving the entrance to the building over to the north side. You know we discussed it. She gave some explanation as to why. Long story short of what happened is we initially proposed about a $23,000 change to the building. With what we have there, demo’ing out that sidewalk. Pushing it over. I mean essentially we’re gutting out the whole front. All the concrete work across the front of the building right now and re-doing essentially. This thing is really getting spendy. Now if I had a 7 or 8 or 10,000 square foot space that I could rent that I was changing, that wouldn’t be an issue. It’s 1,500 square feet. This little change right here, the change, moving the north entrance right there, I haven’t had a 11 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 chance to bid all those parts out because like I said, I can’t remember if I met with her Wednesday or Thursday, but I do enough of this stuff to know on the outside of just moving the doors, those things you know, we’ve got tens of thousands there. Now what do you do to the interior? On the interior you have fixtures of plumbing, drains, water, stuff like that that are laid in there where the kitchen is laid out. It’s laid out in a lateral format. It’s not laid out in an end format. I don’t disagree with staff’s recommendation saying hey, having the door over here would be good facing the other businesses. Conceptually I don’t disagree with that. I’m saying from a practical sense, we’re raising the bar pretty high but that one change right there will mean that all the rent I collect for the next 2 years will go just to that change. And that doesn’t include building the drive out or anything else. So if the city says this is the way it needs to be. If you want to do it Mark, I’ll have to accept it. Go back and do the math and see if we can make it work. If we’d really like to have an entrance over there, have the patio sitting area, which I’ve been in favor of. That’s originally went onto the drawing at my wife, well my wife drew it and then handed it to Westwood and they modified it but if we want to have another entrance over there, a secondary entrance, that’d be fine. But if you stand outside the building and you look at the window where the door would go, you have about 4 feet and the men’s restroom is right here. The door for the men’s restroom is right there, and so either you have an unappealing entrance into the building or you demo out the restroom. Cost about $12,000 to build one of those single stall restrooms somewhere else in there, and then that’s displacing something else so you don’t, you know we hadn’t really had a chance to analyze it, what the impact is but interior operationally it’s just going to get very spendy. Very, very spendy and again 1,500 square feet, I will not make that up, not even close. It’s just a matter of how much my you know, a lot of people that aren’t in commercial real estate say well it’s better to have something in than nothing, and that’s not necessarily true because when you put an expense out there, and again it’s a venture. I’m sure what we put in there will be successful, but you’re still at risk and there’s still a lot of money going into it. Like I said I’m probably tipping I don’t know, I’m right now guessing $60,000-$80,000. Just in this piece. Mayor Furlong: To relocate the entrance? Mark Leutem: No. Mayor Furlong: Oh okay. Mark Leutem: No, no. Mayor Furlong: The whole project. Mark Leutem: Yeah. You know the entrance, but see but the entrance like I said it’s kind of like well once you move this piece, okay now what do you have to move after that? Because again when you have 1,500, it’s very intricate. You know there’s not a lot, there’s no sloppy space in there and we’re being limited to 1,550 so I’m not up here arguing. I’m not saying this that. I’m just saying that moving the main entrance, if we were to say if we could keep the main entrance there, and they want additional, a side entrance say coming in from the other ones. Build the patio out there and the deck, that would make sense but saying well we have to redo everything over there, you know maybe you walk out. I know we’re going to build a patio but when you 12 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 walk outside, that’s fine but having to re-tool the whole, you know interior of the store. Well not the whole but at least half of it. Anytime you start moving plumbing you know. Moving ceilings around and light fixtures, I mean that’s not too bad but anytime you have to go into the floor and start moving plumbing around, it gets very, very expensive. Mayor Furlong: So if I understand you correctly with, I don’t know if it’s a request or just to make us aware. Adding a second entrance up there, a side entrance that would move out to where the patio is. Can you put up the schematic for the patio layouts that would fit for like the staff’s proposed patio orientation would be. An entrance right there with that sidewalk going all the way up. Mark Leutem: Yeah we have, I mean we want the patio area you know. I mean that’s mainly it’s appeal. I don’t know if I want to push it that close to my electrical box and the mechanical door and the gas station but maybe it comes over a bit. But if you’re saying look, you know we want to have access out this side, just if I can leave things alone, I can just pull out the fixture. Cut out 4 feet of concrete and drop in an aluminum door, okay that’s not disruptive in the grand scheme of the operation within the facility. Changing that as the main entrance, yes. Because someone going out a side door is not going to have a problem walking past a restroom. Someone’s coming in for a first time you know and it’s the main entrance like okay, that doesn’t fit. Also my concern somewhat too is that the entrance where it is right now is kind of central in the parking. The parking’s kind of all around it and if we move the entrance up to the north there, then now the parking is all this way around it whereas if it stays there it’s a little bit more central. The other part too from our standpoint is visual from County Road 5 you know and that’s, you know that’s a big deal from the standpoint of being visual to draw people off the street you know. Mayor Furlong: Can I ask the motivation for moving the entrance is for… Kate Aanenson: Well two fold. One, some of the, yeah the orientation. The two businesses face each other in that little corridor. I think you may have some people, problematic or not that would choose not to go between two cars. When you have peak hours of high traffic of going through the drive thru, that would choose not to walk between cars. You don’t normally see that. So when there’s a time that there’s not that, they would choose a different entrance, whether they walk through. We had our building official look at it. I understand your aesthetic issue. I don’t understand the plumbing issue but that you could get through this door and make that a reasonable, besides just a single pane. Maybe a little bit wider so I guess we would say that that makes sense to have that secondary door so you’re not forcing people that may not choose to walk, especially if you’ve got someone with kids that’s not going to probably choose to walk between parked cars, or cars that are, right. Mark Leutem: Sure, giving people some options and choices. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: So Ms. Aanenson if I heard you to have that north entrance as a secondary entrance, is that something that would. 13 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yep. Mayor Furlong: Staff would support. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: So to continue to use the existing entrance and maybe. Kate Aanenson: That’d be fine. Mayor Furlong: But to have that secondary entrance as well. Mark Leutem: Right, and as far as the sidewalk work that you had in the other one there, if we could leave the existing sidewalk maybe and then just add the patio into that or you know incorporate it so. Kate Aanenson: Like this, and then still have one coming down here. Mark Leutem: Yeah. Kate Aanenson: That’s fine. Mark Leutem: Yeah, that’s a couple thousand dollars worth of sidewalk right there. Mayor Furlong: But I guess your point Ms. Aanenson was, if you go with the applicant’s proposal for the patio sidewalk, but also make a sidewalk connection from the patio to the side door, to the north door? Mark Leutem: Oh certainly. Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Would be a natural flow. Mark Leutem: Yeah. You know building the patio you build a few extra feet. I mean that’s. Kate Aanenson: It’s interesting, we had the discussion with Jimmy John's and I don’t want to digress too much but they have the front entrance facing the interior of Market Square. That’s the main entrance, but we strongly encourage them because people walking down Market Boulevard, the business community in here, can choose to go in that way instead of walking all the way around. This is the same example I would say here. You know that one doesn’t have a drive thru but people may not choose to walk, all the way walk around the building. Mark Leutem: Right, and as I told Sharmeen too, I conceptually I completely agree. Kate Aanenson: Okay. 14 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Mark Leutem: That makes sense, but as we’re sitting right now, when I talked to my potential tenant about what does that do? It’s like can you make that work? Can you turn your store the other way? And again his question was, I don’t know. You know I know what I’m going to have in expense just moving the door there. I mean I haven’t worked it out to a detail because I just got this only a few days ago. Kate Aanenson: Well you weren’t planning on moving the restrooms anyways so I’m not sure what. Mark Leutem: Not necessarily, no. Kate Aanenson: Right. So if the door fits there, I’m not sure what the issue was. Mark Leutem: Well if you stand there and look at it, if you look through the window and say will you cut down through the rest of the brick and put the door in right there, literally that outer edge of the door will swing, will line up on that side of that wall so it’s just, it looks kind of tight. It doesn’t look open and inviting and whereas when if you walk in the front there, and if you want people to walk in the door like this and walk up to their counter. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, that’s how Jimmy John's is too. You’re coming towards the restrooms on that back side too. Mayor Furlong: But what I’m hearing is the north entrance is perfectly fine as a secondary side. Mark Leutem: If we can have it as a secondary entrance. Mayor Furlong: And it meets the goal of providing that entrance so that somebody parking on that north parking spaces don’t have to walk around, which is your goal. I think is there, and if there’s some way, through signs or something to leave a walkway in the drive thru area so people parking on the west side can walk across and not have to walk you know between two feet of bumper but if there’s a. Mark Leutem: Well the other part too, if you look at the drive thru too. The order box is going to be right before the sidewalk so everybody coming through there is going to stop. Mayor Furlong: Right. Mark Leutem: You know so there’d be, and then yeah we have some green that we have to put in there but I think obviously put in there so people can certainly see if someone’s walking up. We can’t put arborvitaes right up to the edge there and a car’s blinded by someone coming through. But you know that way we’d essentially you know, and once you get the additional signage, things like that, you know stop for pedestrians and stuff. Mayor Furlong: And I guess that’s my thought and I’m guessing Ms. Aanenson that was part of the staff’s concern was that pedestrians crossing the drive thru. 15 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: As well, but to your point sir, since the order boards are north of that, there’s an action stopping there. Mark Leutem: Right, yeah. And you know the current entryway, now again you stand on that west side, I mean we have that big arch in the front. I mean that looks like the obvious entrance to the place and my concern is well if you left that, and people are going to compelled to go up there and find out it’s just glass. You know where’s the door and I think there’s, but if yeah, if we can say look. Let’s just open up an access in there that goes out to the patio anyway, that kind of actually makes sense to me because it’d be easier for someone to walk on the inside right out to the patio area instead of have to go outside and walk around to it. Mayor Furlong: Well and I think you can evaluate the cost too of the patio and the original proposal certainly has more sidewalk and cement associated with it than when staff’s, where you have that secondary access there. That may be something you want to look at from a cost standpoint as well, but was there another reason that staff wanted that patio moved to the east? Kate Aanenson: I think it’s just more enjoyable not to be sitting next to an idling car. To kind of move it towards the center of the building. And maybe somebody else that runs into the gas station side to get something there can also sit and use that so it’s just, you’re not right next to the cars. But certainly you can mitigate that with some landscaping and things too. Mark Leutem: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Mark Leutem: Yeah, I got a lot of trees in there don’t I. I haven’t assessed that one at all. I’d better start planting seeds now. Councilman Litsey: I think one of the other benefits of having that green island there too, along the drive thru, is that the pedestrians do have a spot to stop. They’re not in the roadway. They’re not yet crossing and they have kind of a spot there that they can, so I think that helps some. Going in that main entrance. Mayor Furlong: Talking a little bit landscaping. Can you talk a little bit about what you’re requesting there. Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure we put a lot of detail in there. Mayor Furlong: Page 9 of 11, and well that’s part of my question. We just say add landscaping within the proposed island. I’m not sure. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, I think we showed an attempt to put something in there but that’s something we would them. Typically we see low shrubs. You don’t want something high because the operations on both side can see. The cars and cars can see the, where the window is 16 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 and that sort of thing but certainly just something besides just rocks. And again that helps with carbon monoxide and some of the noise mitigation too. Mayor Furlong: Okay, and then there was discussion before in the landscaping south of the property along Highway 5. And there was some talk originally, the last time we saw this about berms and such. Are we, we’re not doing anything that’s going to block the building are we? Kate Aanenson: No. No, because this, let me go back. Sorry. This is Lot 2, Block 1. So that’s a separate legal identity. On the other parcel. You’re talking about this piece to the north? Mayor Furlong: Nope. I’m talking about the. Kate Aanenson: Oh, along Highway 5. Mayor Furlong: Exactly. Right where your mouse is now. Kate Aanenson: No, actually we addressed that previous with the previous application. Mayor you may remember when we did the. Mayor Furlong: The sign. Kate Aanenson: Electronic sign, yes. There was landscaping. Actually the signs are up recently but that was addressed with that. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Kate Aanenson: Some landscaping, right. Mayor Furlong: But the key here is there will be good visibility of this building and the businesses that are from Highway 5. Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: Are you comfortable with the landscaping requirements sir? Mark Leutem: Yeah. Well it’s a, you know it’s a picture from the top here. You know I guess we’ll have to develop it further to see what it’s going to look like from the user’s perspective but you know he drew a lot of these arborvitaes along here just to kind of, you know tight in there and I think you know we have to kind of visit. There’s a lot of, we’ve got some spruce and things along there right now and maybe to kind of stay consistent with the direction that the berm’s been developed initially you know. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, and also because we just put the sign up but we can revisit that too just to make sure we’re not putting them too tight in there. Mayor Furlong: Too tight or too vertical so… 17 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: Right. Well we know when we put them too close together, when we put them too close together they can kill each other too so we’ll revisit that one just to see what the spacing is. Mayor Furlong: Alright. Any other questions for staff at this point or for the applicant? I should say as well. No? Okay. Thank you. Mark Leutem: Alright, not to. Mayor Furlong: Did you have other comments please? Mark Leutem: Well just one other one. Not to bias your vote or anything but it is my birthday today so. Mayor Furlong: Happy birthday. Do you want to make some comments, we’ll certainly open up to public comments at this time. Lynne Etling: Yeah, thank you. Good evening Mayor and council members. My name is Lynne Etling. I live at 7681 Century Boulevard in Chanhassen and tonight I’m not knocking down the board at least. But obviously I have concerns about this project. I have from the beginning. I still think that they’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You know they made a lot of changes and you know hopefully they’re for the good. However I do have a few other concerns that I’d like to ask. In regards to the speakers for the call box. You know please forgive me, I’m not sure how all this works but you know who on the Chanhassen staff would be responsible for the monitoring and the enforcement of those speakers to make sure they aren’t audible from the property line? You know so that we cannot hear them when we’re sitting outside on our patios. Mayor Furlong: I’ll defer to staff on that. Kate Aanenson: Planning staff would. Mayor Furlong: Planning? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Lynne Etling: The planning would? Okay. How would they monitor that? Kate Aanenson: Typically what we monitor noise by, it’s a dosimeter. It has to be frequency and duration of noise so that’s typically how we measure noise. And so. Lynne Etling: Alright, because you know obviously that’s going to be a concern to a lot of people that are living there. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. We do have the experience with fast food in, adjacent to other neighborhoods. For example McDonald’s is very close to that neighborhood and they have a 18 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 dual driveway so we do have pretty good experience of how to manage those and can work with the owners of that operation. Lynne Etling: Okay. Alright. And for the landscaping, you know there really isn’t a lot of specifics on it. I know you’re waiting for the final landscaping to come in but you know the same thing. Who actually makes sure on the city staff that you know that the finished landscaping is adequate and you know who would go through and like would there be a landscaping bond or a letter of credit to guarantee if something should, you know what’s there remains there and if it dies, if it’s going to be replaced and? You know obviously I just want to make sure that there’s adequate you know. Kate Aanenson: Would you like me to respond to that? Mayor Furlong: Please. Kate Aanenson: Before a permit could be issued, a building permit, all the final drawings would have to be submitted and they’d be reviewed by the appropriate departments. Engineering would review it to make sure it meets the designs as they’ve shown. Planning would review it. The City Forester would review it. If there is landscaping required, we typically have them post a bond for landscaping. So all of that would be done prior to the issuance of building permit. Lynne Etling: And I’m sure your city code would say how tall and how wide. Kate Aanenson: Yep, there’s specifications for all that. That’s correct. Lynne Etling: Yeah. And then also if something dies, that it would be replaced, right? Kate Aanenson: Yep, there’s a warranty on that, that’s correct. Lynne Etling: Okay. And then you said that you’re going to have the no U turn sign put in? Kate Aanenson: Yes. I did speak to the City Engineer about that so. Lynne Etling: Okay. Because there is no U turn sign. Actually the sign, the one way sign is actually down right now. Somebody hit it. Due to our lovely snow but you know obviously the traffic flow is a concern for me because of the way that they’re going to have people cutting through the drive thru lane so you know I just think it’s kind of a safety hazard but that’s all I really wanted. Just try to make it a win/win for everyone in the area. Mayor Furlong: Well thank you. Appreciate your thoughts. Lynne Etling: Do you have any questions of me? Mayor Furlong: Not at this time? Lynne Etling: Okay. Thank you. 19 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Councilwoman Tjornhom: You know just real quickly. Before you showed us. Where is your residence in conjunction? Lynne Etling: Mine is. Kate Aanenson: I think it’s off the screen. Lynne Etling: Not the first unit but the second, yeah. On the right. Kate Aanenson: It’s just off the screen, yeah. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Okay. Lynne Etling: Yeah, just off the screen. And actually the, a few of my neighbors wanted to be here tonight. One of them is in China. The other two I think that they’re just hung up with the snow but there are several people in the neighborhood that are concerned about this and the traffic flow that it would bring because this is bringing in, it’s not, you know I don’t understand when you’re saying that you can make this specific just to this development because when you amend a PUD, PUD agreement, isn’t that for the whole city of Chanhassen and would open the way for a drive thru’s for everyone? Mayor Furlong: No, that’s a fairly. Kate Aanenson: We did have a, yeah we did have a discussion regarding that. How a PUD, while the underlying zoning district doesn’t allow it, a PUD can be amended to specific. Site specific for this one so it would only apply at this location. For the drive thru in a neighborhood business. Lynne Etling: Is that, and that is something enforceable? Kate Aanenson: Yes. Yes. Yeah, we have other PUD’s that you know it may be a shorter list of uses that would be acceptable in that district but maybe not in a similar location. Yes. Lynne Etling: Even though this will kind of give them the competitive advantage to other areas? Kate Aanenson: Well for example as we mentioned, McDonald’s is in a neighborhood business district. At that time it was permitted for drive thru’s and that’s a pretty high traffic area right adjacent to a neighborhood district. As a matter of fact that Park Nicollet’s in a neighborhood business district and the neighbors wanted a variance to go two stories and that’s a unique PUD that we put together there too so each circumstance is unique. And the council weighs those circumstances to decide whether or not it merits it so they have that legislative authority to amend that and make it specific to this one. To this use. This location. Lynne Etling: Right. I’m just concerned that it would you know people like Subway or the ones that are previously along the corridor would come back and want that. 20 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: Yeah, Subway had come in before. They’re in the middle of a strip center. It did not have the same circulation and it just didn’t work. Lynne Etling: Yeah. Kate Aanenson: So again you have to look at the design and really engineering has a lot to do with that, if you can make the circulation work and those are some of the factors that they did address. Lynne Etling: Right, and please forgive me. I’m trying to, I’ve read through all the documents from 2003 and trying to educate myself on this and the process and just really want to make sure that it’s a win/win for everyone. Councilman Litsey: Absolutely. Lynne Etling: And obviously I live pretty close. Councilman Litsey: But are the concerns you brought up similar to what your neighbors would have brought up too, so we’re kind of getting all the concerns through you at least? Lynne Etling: Yeah. And others that are not relevant like we don’t need another sub shop when we’ve already got two. Councilman Litsey: Okay. Lynne Etling: Things like that. Councilman Litsey: So you kind of filtered those. Lynne Etling: Right. But they’re mostly concerned about the traffic and the U turn and things like that, and walking into the building. That we don’t lose the entrance. Councilman Litsey: Well thanks for bringing it up as a spokesperson. Lynne Etling: Okay. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to provide public comment on this? Any follow up questions that the council of staff or the applicant? No? Okay. Why don’t we just bring it to council then for discussion and try to move this forward. Thoughts or comments. Councilman Litsey, want to start? Councilman Litsey: Well I think to be sensitive to the concerns that were raised, that we follow through with those and make sure we monitor. I know that noise can be an issue when you have an outdoor speaker, and you know depending on conditions at the time, sound can travel differently. So that we’re diligent with that. I think the compromise kind of worked out here 21 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 tonight in terms of entrances makes sense. I think that will help and so conceptually it’s an okay project to move ahead with. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts, Councilwoman Ernst. Councilwoman Ernst: Well these are the types of projects I like coming before council because everyone is coming together and expressing their concerns and finding solutions to those concerns with staff. For example adding the side door. The landscaping issue. The noise issue. The traffic flow issue and it sounds like we found some things to address each one of those. Staff working with the residents as well as the owner and so I think that’s great and I think it’s going to be a great project. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Other thoughts, comments, Councilwoman Tjornhom. Councilwoman Tjornhom: Yeah. I think one of the things that sold me on this, even when we just reviewed it last time was, what Mayor Furlong said that we are also members of the EDA and it’s part of that I think responsibility to assure that our businesses do well here. Or we try to help them do what we can for them, especially this economic climate and so I’m all in favor of doing whatever I can do for this development and the owners of it to ensure success. So we do have businesses and places for people to go in town, you know that’s what it’s going to take to get this economy going and keep it going so thank you for Milo’s and everyone else for investing in Chanhassen and I hope, I wish you the best of luck. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. Councilman McDonald. Councilman McDonald: Geez. Well, yeah this is economic development and I’m glad to see that maybe we’ve got a use for this particular area that will work, but you know I still have a couple concerns and I’m glad you at least worked with staff and worked through them. You know my biggest thing is people crossing in front of the drive thru. I’ve been sitting here trying to think of restaurants where that happens and if they’re successful or not and I can think of the Wendy’s up at 7-Hi and no one uses that entrance of anything so I just you know would pass along, I hope you would consider something else there to keep some space between cars and people because I just don’t have a lot of confidence as far as cars and people crossing. I’m okay with that being the main entrance. There is no other way and again in order for it to be a successful business and everything I think we have to go with that so I’m glad you compromised on the north entrance and so because of that, yeah I’d be willing to look at that as just a secondary entrance but my, you know my concern for the crossing just doesn’t go away. I would want you to do something there also because I would hate to see someone you know get hurt or anything but beyond that I think that I appreciate you looking to try to find a way to make this work so hopefully together we can you know get something that will be good for the city. Thank you. Mayor Furlong: Thank you. I would agree with a variety of comments mentioned here tonight. From an economic development standpoint. I think that’s one of the motivating factors that we heard last time that we didn’t hear as much this evening. Is the need to try to improve the opportunity for businesses to be successful at this location. And while that may bring additional 22 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 traffic, which we understand is a concern to the neighbors, and I also appreciate that being part of the discussion and I think the design here is to try to work with some of them by creating one ways where currently there are two ways and through the site and as we said, will probably move some of the traffic further east and the further east it goes, the more likely it’s going to come th around on West 78 rather than back out onto Century and with the U turns. So bottom line I think we’ve made some good progress here and I’d like to thank the applicant and the property, as far as the business owners as well as staff for working together to do that to come up with compromises. I think we, my sense here is we are going to go forward this evening. We should probably modify some of those. Kate I think under number 4. Kate Aanenson: Yeah. I just… Mayor Furlong: Are you working on that? Kate Aanenson: Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Relocate. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, are you under the PUD? Just yeah, the applicant shall relocate the patio and an entrance into space as shown on Exhibit A. Mayor Furlong: That’s cool. Kate Aanenson: Just take out main. Mayor Furlong: Add a secondary entrance? Kate Aanenson: Or, yeah. Mayor Furlong: It’s not a relocation of an entrance. Kate Aanenson: I just left, just scratch the word. Mayor Furlong: The addition of an entrance, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: Correct. That’s why I just took off the word main and just say add and gain additional entrance or something. Mayor Furlong: We saw the relocate word there proceeding. Kate Aanenson: Oh, I’m sorry. You’re right. Take relocate. Mayor Furlong: So locate the patio and secondary entrance as being shown. I guess the question is, there was still some discussion about the location of the patio. I understand staff’s thoughts about moving that further east. I also hear the applicant saying I don’t want, you know you’re avoiding cars but then I’m going over… 23 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Kate Aanenson: We’re flexible on that. The goal is to get an outdoor space. I think our goal is to make it desirable… Mayor Furlong: Which I think would certainly be a good, absolutely. Kate Aanenson: …I think we can work it out internally. Mayor Furlong: And that’s what I would suggest there. Is that the staff and applicant work out the location. Make sure there’s access to that patio from the secondary entrance. The north entrance. But adding in that north entrance, it sounds like that can be done as well so. Yeah, we don’t need to keep talking about it. I think it’s a good project. I think it’s a good enhancement to an existing project and I think we should move forward on it with those modifications. Kate Aanenson: Mayor if I may, just one more on the Findings of Fact. We talked about it briefly and I think the city attorney had just changed, made one little tweak and if we could just in the Findings of Fact. Mayor Furlong: What page are you on? Also in the PUD amendment. Kate Aanenson: Yeah, it was actually in the PUD amendment and just to put in there, instead of saying fast food, I think it’d be probably better just to put restaurant. Mayor Furlong: Just strike the words fast food in (h)? Kate Aanenson: And put restaurant. Would that be as part of your recommendation? Yeah. Mayor Furlong: Is that clear to everybody? Kate Aanenson: With the drive thru window, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay. That would be on the PUD amendment? Kate Aanenson: Correct. That would be number, that’d be (h). Mayor Furlong: And was there a change on the Findings of Fact? Kate Aanenson: Yes. That would be on (h). It was on page 5 of 11. Mayor Furlong: And also further down under the amendment. On page 10. Kate Aanenson: Correct. Correct. Mayor Furlong: Okay. So the modifications would be to strike the words fast food under (h) under the PUD Amendment. And also to modify 4 under the conditions for the site plan 24 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 amendment. What are you proposing to say there? The applicant will locate the patio and secondary entrance as shown? Kate Aanenson: Correct. Mayor Furlong: Or near the space shown. They may want to modify it from staff’s proposal. Kate Aanenson: Correct. And again just to reference that we are speaking specifically to Lot 2, Block 1 so on that too. Mayor Furlong: Is that identified in the site plan amendment? Kate Aanenson: I’m not sure it is but I think we should probably put that in there too. Mayor Furlong: Where would you like that? Kate Aanenson: Just to be clear that’s for the drive thru facility. That’s for Lot 2, Block 1. Mayor Furlong: That’s in the PUD amendment. It does say allow drive thru on Lot 2, Block 1. Kate Aanenson: Okay, then we should be covered. Mayor Furlong: Is that sufficient or do you need it for site plan as well? Kate Aanenson: I think that’s, yeah. Mayor Furlong: Okay, so we covered that. Kate Aanenson: Okay. Mayor Furlong: So are we comfortable on the amendment, condition 4 for the site plan? How that’s going to be worded? Is the council comfortable with the intention of the wording there? Councilman McDonald: Yes. Councilman Litsey: Sounds good. Mayor Furlong: Okay, to locate a secondary entrance on that, and patio on the north side. Kate Aanenson: Yes. That’s correct. Mayor Furlong: And the location agreeable with the staff and applicant together. Kate Aanenson: Yes. Mayor Furlong: Okay. Mr. Knutson, you’re okay with those? 25 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Roger Knutson: I’m fine with them. Mayor Furlong: Very good. Anything else? If not, would somebody like to propose a motion? Councilman McDonald: I’ll propose the motion but the question I have is from what I’ve heard the motion itself really doesn’t change, am I correct? Because everything we’re talking about is really within the findings conditions 1 through 3 on page 10. Mayor Furlong: To meet. Kate Aanenson: As modified in the staff. Mayor Furlong: The modified conditions. The conditions will be modified based on these discussions I believe, is that correct? Kate Aanenson: That’s correct. Councilman McDonald: Okay. I’ll see if I can get it then. Okay I’ll make the proposed motion that the City Council approves the Planned Unit Development amendment for the Arboretum Village (PUD 99-02), Planning Case #08-22, amending the design standards Section b. Permitted Uses, to allow a drive thru on Lot 2, Block 1 of the Arboretum Shopping Center with standards as shown on page 9 and 10 and approved as amendments to the Arboretum Shopping Center site plan permit 03-06, subject to the amended conditions 1 through 3 on page 10. Mayor Furlong: It’d be 1 through 4. Councilman McDonald: 1 through 4 on page 10 still. Mayor Furlong: And I believe it’s page 11 now. Councilman McDonald: Page 11. Mayor Furlong: Is that sufficient Ms. Aanenson? Kate Aanenson: Yep. Mayor Furlong: Alright, thank you. Is there a second? Councilwoman Tjornhom: Second. Mayor Furlong: Made and seconded. Any discussion? Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council approve the Planned Unit Development amendment for Arboretum Village (PUD 99-02), 26 City Council Meeting - January 12, 2009 Planning Case #08-22, amending the design standards Section b. Permitted Uses, to allow a drive-thru on Lot 2, Block 1, Arboretum Shopping Center, with the following standards: Drive-thru facilities for any use shall comply with the following standards: (a) They shall not be located adjacent to any residential lot lines. (b) They shall be provided with a suitable visual screen from adjacent properties. (c) Stacking shall be provided within applicable parking lot setbacks. (d) Stacking shall meet the following standards: (1) Fast Food Restaurant: six cars per aisle. (2) Banks: three cars per aisle. (3) Pharmacy: two cars per aisle. (4) All other uses: two cars per aisle. (e) The City may require a vehicle stacking study to determine whether more or less stacking shall be required for a particular use. (f) Stacking areas shall not interfere with vehicular circulation in the parking lot nor encroach into any required drive aisles. (g) Speaker or intercom system shall not be audible at the property line. (h) A Restaurant with a drive-thru may not exceed 1,550 square feet in area.” All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Councilman McDonald moved, Councilwoman Tjornhom seconded that the City Council approvethe site plan amendment for Arboretum Shopping Center (Site Plan 03-06), Planning Case #08-22, to allow a drive-thru window and redesign parking layout and site circulation as shown in plans dated received December 15, 2008, with the following conditions and based on adoption of the attached Findings of Fact: 1.Approval of the site plan is contingent upon approval of the PUD amendment allowing a drive-thru window. 2.The western three angled parking stalls must be striped and signed as compact stalls. 3.Any existing bufferyard plantings that are removed for the development must be replaced within the same area. A landscape plan must be submitted to the city for approval showing locations and species. The applicant may group plantings together in order to add interest to the landscaping if the design does not diminish the screening capacity. 4.The applicant shall work with staff to locate the patio and secondary entrance into the space as shown in Exhibit A. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 5 to 0. Mayor Furlong: That motion prevails 5-0. Very good thank you. Appreciate everybody’s input and thank you for participating. 27