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PRC 1999 09 28CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING SEPTEMBER 28, 1999 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Mike Howe, Fred Berg, Jim Manders, Jay Karlovich, Rod Franks and Dave Moes MEMBERS ABSENT: None. STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; and Tracy Peterson, Recreation Supervisor VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Howe moved, Lash seconded to approve the Minutes of the Park and Recreation Commission meeting dated August 24, 1999 as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried. TOUR OF CHANHASSEN SKATE PARK. The Park and Recreation Commission toured the Skate Park located next to City Hall at this point in the meeting. Lash: Should we take some quick comments about the skate park, just for the record? Do you want to start Mike? Howe: I was very impressed. Very nice. I think Rod's going to go through it first tomorrow. If we get a storm, where are we going to put those things? Hoffman: If we store them, they'll go outside at Lake Ann. Otherwise we can leave it here for the winter and then not flood that side of the rink. Berg: ... with anything? Hoffman: No need. Lash: So what would you recommend we do? I mean if they're going to be outside over there anyway, why haul them? Hoffman: Yeah, it's just the loss of the second rink but if we had the hockey boards around it, then they'd want to play hockey in there. We don't have hockey boards, it's not our biggest loss because they have a pleasure rink up here. They have one hockey rink so for this year we can Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 probably let it stay up here. It's going to be such a short season, why take it down in 2 months and move it so. Lash: But could you just move it. Hoffman: Off to the side? Lash: Yeah. Instead of hauling it, just kind of get it out of the way so we can still have hockey. Hoffman: We can take a look at that too. Howe: That's all I have. Lash: Dave, you have anything? Moes: Very nice. I'm excited to give the kids a park... Lash: Rod. Franks: I think it looks great. The only thing that I would have to say is I think we should set aside an old geezers hour or two once a week so we can go out there and not be embarrassed. Hoffman: Come when it's raining or early in the morning. Franks: We could have our own session. Lash: And arrange for the paramedics to be there at the beginning. Franks: Immediately there. Lash: So they're just there, okay. Anything else? Franks: No. Lash: I mentioned outside, but again I'll say I think it'd be beneficial to just have a little chat session with town merchants, the principal at Chan Elementary because I think they'll be aware of the impact with skates and boards and helmets and everything coming to school. Those kids coming early before school. That could create a problem for them there so I'd just as soon help them deal with that before it gets there. That's it for me. Have you got any Fred? Berg: Not much. No, just I wish those kids that had come the first meeting or two were around still so they could see what happened. I hope that any communication we have with the press, that you remind them that it started as a grass roots as you can get. It's really neat to see what those kids accomplished. 2 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Hoffman: Back in about '97 or earlier. Berg: Yeah, they get all the credit for it. We didn't have a chance when it first came in. There was no way it was going to happen. It's great. Lash: Jay. Karlovich: My only comment of fear is if it's not moved or covered sometime in the winter time and you have the ice skaters right next door, I just envision children at least, like my children, going over there with their ice skates and trying to go down a, yeah. And so I'm just worried about the surface getting damaged by some ice skates so. Berg: We could put like a snow fence around it or something just so that kids. Hoffman: We may find it's just best to move it out. Lash: Jim. Manders: No, I think it's great. Lash: Okay, thanks. Mission accomplished. RICE MARSH LAKE PARK, BASKETBALL COURT. Hoffman: Pretty simple question. There was a new hoop ordered at the request of the neighborhood for the half court basketball. They wanted a second hoop. They are not at 9 feet as indicated. They are both at 10 feet and this particularly individual that called, Mr. Myer, he recalled that, he thought that it was going in at 8 feet. If the commission would like to see that moved, we can certainly move it down to 8 feet. I was hoping we'd have minutes of that evening but it was a work session so verbatim minutes were not available. I do recall having the conversation, 8 versus 10. We have very few 8 foot hoops in the city because of the ability to hang on them. I don't know if any commissioners recalled that conversation. That's the reason it's on the agenda. Moes: I do recall us having an 8 foot hoop discussion. I'm not quite sure which park it was specifically tied to. Lash: And what's the point of having it at 8 feet as opposed to 107 Moes: Well I think the one thing they talked about with the 8 foot is you got kind of the 6 to 8 year olds that can shoot a basket versus, or 10 to 12 and feeling frustrated up until that point. It does provide a little bit more versatility for the same age group that's attending the park. Hoffman: I know of one other one that we have that's at Power Hill. 8 foot. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Karlovich: Can you describe what this, is it a foam basketball court with a 10 foot on one side and 10 foot on the other? Hoffman: 50 x 50 asphalt pad. Karlovich: And there's two though, but we're. Hoffman: One on either side. Just opposite. Just like a basketball court would be but it's very small, 50 x 50. Karlovich: So if you're going to play back and forth, you'd want them the same heights wouldn't you? Hoffman: Yeah, if you're going to play back and forth. Berg: I would guess most play half court anyway... Karlovich: Otherwise the cost of changing it or ripping it out was almost, you could almost put a third hoop in. Just kind of the same trouble. Why tear out something when it's almost, it's going to be the same amount of money just to put a third one in. Lash: I seem to recall a conversation too and it seems to me, I don't recall if it was this particular park but it seems like we did go with the 8 foot but I just don't know if I can justify spending this kind of money to raise it. Moes: Another option is like at the YMCA they've got these like basketball hoop extensions. I have no idea what something like that runs. If that's an option versus tearing the thing out because I, that kind of provides both options there. You can have two 10 foot or you get the 8 foot as well or. Hoffman: That'd be an extension that you. Moes: You hang down, but nobody's used them over at the. Hoffman: The Rec Center. Moes: The Rec Center for yeah, early basketball for the kids. That just hangs down an additional 2 feet which gives you the 8 foot level there as well. Hoffman: You think that would be applicable in the outdoor environment? Moes: That's a very good question. I just think of that as an alternative to spending $600 to tear something up. Other alternatives that might be available to us. And I know you mentioned the concern about people hanging on the ribs. I'm not quite sure how, if you see that quite often at the parks or, I mean the bent rims quite a bit. 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Hoffman: It happens. Karlovich: So it's a square pad, 50 x 50? Hoffman: Correct. Karlovich: I mean they could just leave those two and then if the commission wants to spend any extra money, on the side. Hoffman: It'd be the most hooped basketball court in town. Lash: I would be more inclined to do that than to just spend the same amount of money just to lower it. Franks: Well it's not quite the same amount of money. It's $600 to lower it but it'd be. Lash: $200. It'd be $800. Hoffman: No. Lash: No? Hoffman: $600 contract. If we told the contractor to... and then $200 in concrete. Lash: I was thinking it was both. It was $600 for labor and $200 for... Hoffman: The installation was $400 but they have to take it up, break it out, break the concrete up. That's an extra $200 and then reinstall it. Manders: This thing isn't an adjustable deal. It's just one height and that's it. Berg: I'm inclined to put it in our 5 year plan. Somewhere down the road and so we can say that yes, we are going to do it but we're waiting to see what kind of demands there is for it too. Put it a couple years out. Manders: I'd be inclined to debate it but I wouldn't say that we're going to do it. Personally. Lash: You mean to lower it? Manders: No, I'd just leave it now and consider it down the road and just that. Consider it. Not commit to doing it. Moes: Todd how many other neighbors brought the issue up or was it just Bob Myers? 5 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Hoffman: Just Mr. Myers. Manders: Yeah, go to that reason you know. How much demand really is there? Lash: I guess I would be inclined to leave it too. Hoffman: We were coordinating a good deal of work at this particular time and so the height of the basketball hoop certainly could have gotten misplaced as far as the coordination with the contractor. It was not on the work order to go in at 8 feet, but went in at standard height so it surely could have been missed. That's the reason I wanted to research the Minutes. See if we could answer his question. The work session. You'll recall that spring we met every two weeks and had neighbors in and talked about their improvements and. Lash: Just goes to show you that we shouldn't make any decisions at work sessions that aren't on tape. Just like that comment. Okay, what would we need to do here? Would be, if we wanted to change it, make a motion? Otherwise we just leave it, right? Hoffman: I'll just write him a letter. Tell him we're just going to wait to see if we hear anything else and take it up at a later date if we do. Lash: ... invest the money to change it. Moes: The only question I had was what would it take just to find out what that 2 foot extension... You raise the issue about whether it's feasible in an outdoor environment. It could possibly be a detriment more than a help. Manders: How does it work? I don't understand. Moes: It attaches to the. Hoffman: The other hoop. Moes: The basketball rim itself and just extends. Howe: A whole other back board? Moes: It's got the back board, hoop. The whole thing 2 feet down. Hoffman: I mean I've installed them out at the Rec Center. It's not going to hold up in an outdoor park setting. They're just going to rip it right off of there. I'll ask if they make one that's built for outdoor application but. Karlovich: I think it's unfortunate if it was committed to at some prior meeting and didn't come through but otherwise he wants a lower one, can't he put one up at his own house? I mean my 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 neighbors put one up on the, actually two up in our street. His own expense or put something on your garage or the adjustable ones. Moes: I'd go along with that idea as well. Unfortunately I've got a driveway that goes like this though. Lash: That way you put it on the street. Karlovich: Actually I did find one of those adjustable ones. You've got to put cones out in the middle of the street though. REPORTS: RECREATION PROGRAMS. Peterson: I don't have anything except for my report. I do have the volunteer sheet for the Halloween party so I'll pass that around. October 23rd, 5:30 to 8:30 at the Rec Center. So I will hand that around and if anybody's willing to help out, that would be great. Howe: Who's picking our costumes this year? Hoffman: You are. Moes: If I'm not available until 6:30, quarter to 7:00, does that help at all? Peterson: That'd be fine. Moes: I've got a prior commitment until quarter to 7:00. Peterson: That'd be fine. Hoffman: Clean-up is wonderful. Commissioner: I'll play the Cat in the Hat again. That sounds easier. Lash: Does anyone have comments on any of the programming for Tracy? Okay, looks good. SELF-SUPPORTING PROGRAMS: LAKE ANN PARK CONCESSIONS. Ruegemer: Thank you Chair Lash and Commission. We did have another good year out at Lake Ann. I'm not sure if you had a chance to look at the report. We did start slow out there with the late ending of school this year but we did pick up steam come July and August. Traditionally we really drop off the first part of August but we were making some decent money all the way up to the end so it really did help out. It helped with the gate attendant fee that was dropped. Again, we did bring a lot of people down through the park. I think really now it seems like a lot of 7 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 groups are calling us now and bringing bus loads of kids down there. I think that's helping out a great deal .... that's been really helpful. We really tried to simplify even more, all the way through kind of getting rid of certain vendors and kind of going with one vendor for a lot of different things versus several vendors for smaller types of things so it's really, really we're trying to streamline that and make it really as viable and as easy as possible. Had a lot of kind of replacing this year. We added another paddleboat out there. Another four person Aquacycle. We added all new life jackets, new paddles, oars, so we're really in good shape as far as equipment goes out there so I think for the long haul. We added some things. The slush puppy was very popular this year. Very minimal effort on our part to kind of produce really high profit margin item. We did get the machine and a new nacho machine from a certain vendor. Didn't have to pay anything for the equipment for that. We just purchased the supplies from them which worked out really good for us. We didn't really have any out of pocket capital cost for that. The meal deals was always again popular to kind of provide a full type of a meal at a cheap price. It really helped out and some other type of things. Really just trying to keep the menu simple. Quick point of sales where we get people in and out really to help with some of our customer service out there too. People don't have to stand in line and we're really trying to work on that too. If you look on page 2, I had the boat numbers. Paddleboats, canoes. We had a total of 578 rentals this year, which was right kind of where we were last year too so we made some decent revenue on the boat rentals. And we didn't get rid of one of the paddleboats that we were going to replace. It still was working properly with minimal repairs so we kept it and kept it in the fleet if you will. And so we had six boats out there this summer which really helped out nice with picnics. That type of thing. A lot of people liked to put 2 or 3 paddleboats aside so it's guaranteed rentals for us. And we do that and still keeping boats available for the general public to use too so we're really servicing two needs there, and that really helped out. Concession wages are listed there. Supplies are listed there. Expenditures and when all said and done you can see the total revenues there, nearly $21,000 in revenue and the expenditures around $15,500 with a net profit of $5,320 for that. And then I just included kind of the daily sales. May, June, July, August. Day by day. Where we were with boat rentals and food. What kind of a day we had. Hours and wages for the employees. Vendor expenses per pay period or per invoice. If that helps the commission see that. And all in all it was I think a very good summer again with Lake Ann is a beautiful park. We have lots of nice comments on that and we want to kind of keep the ball rolling out there so. Any questions at all on that? Karlovich: I just have one question. On page 1 of the, probably the third sheet from the back where it says 1999 Lake Ann Concession hours and wages. This was kind of a light agenda so, and I look forward to each month the agenda so I kind of went through this. I had a little bit of free time but the only question I had, and maybe it's a typo but Airin Mesenbring from 6/28/99 to 7/11/99, which is like a 13 day period, put in 170 hours. I just looked at the total budget of $5,869 and then she just made an awful lot in those 13 days and I was just wondering if that was a typo. I'm not scrutinizing the wages at all. I just kind of. Ruegemer: No, that was accurate. You have to take into account that was over the 4th of July period. And we had concession staff up here at the celebration helping out with games and with three staff up there, they got a lot of hours in. It was very busy over that time period, with the celebration out there. 8 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Lash: That's still over 13 days. Like over 10 hours a day. Ruegemer: There was, at times there was more people on per shift. Airin did, Airin was our main person out there for working. Many hours and she, I mean I can certainly take a look at it. I think it's accurate. I can take a look. I just entered them in as soon as I got them in so. But the 4th is a busy time. Over that time and we did have some people gone so she did work quite a bit. Moes: Do they get time and a half at all or is that just dollars? Hoffman: That's about 14 hours a day. I don't think she could work that much. Lash: No, because it's not even open that long is it? Ruegemer: I'll talk to her. Lash: I had a quick question. It sounds like we're all going to be nit picky tonight but what does Valerie do that she gets $10.50 an hour? Ruegemer: She's the concession manager. Lash: Oh, okay. So she's just not one of the regular kids who's been there for like 10 years or something? Worked their way up. Ruegemer: No. Going into it, I wanted to keep her more at you know 20 to 25 hours a week roughly so she, so we're not paying her a lot of hours at $10.50 an hour. So basically she does all the ordering of supplies. Staffing. Staff schedules. She's really. Hoffman: Jerry would pay her $15.00 an hour. Ruegemer: She's very valuable down there. Manders: You mentioned about the paddleboats, just in terms of usage that seems to be the most popular item. Did you have six of them? Is that a number that could have rented out even more? I'm not suggesting we want more but is there something there that. Ruegemer: At times but there's a lot of times they sit idol too. I mean during peak times you know it's a balance act between life jackets and boats so, sometimes all the boats are gone and, or some are still there and we don't have any more life jackets so we have to be careful. Lash: I had a question, it doesn't really relate to the figures here but when we took out the fee and we had a little concern over the bus loads of people just showing up. How does that seem to be going at all this summer do you think? 9 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Ruegemer: We're still agitating people. You know we, the lifeguards are aware of that. Concession stafl} and we really just had kind of a large group policies available for people as they came in. We tried to educate as much as we can with handing out the literature to people. But I mean we still, there's still a lot of people that tend to drop in but people are getting better of calling ahead and that's all we ask you know. Call ahead and we can let the lifeguards know. I mean that's the most important thing. But I mean it's an ongoing process. But like the YMCA came down there quite a bit. They were good at letting us know. The school district came down quite a bit and they all, you know write us a letter with the dates and that type of thing and, or filled out the applications that we asked them. Manders: Are they selling concessions up by the ballfields? Ruegemer: No. Manders: Are they going to? Ruegemer: That was the plan this year but that did not happen. Lack of coordination. Lash: That was CAA, right? Franks: The cost for the paddleboats and life jackets and slush puppy machine and such, are those included in these figures too? Ruegemer: No. As far as the cost of the purchase of the paddleboats? Franks: Right. So when you're saying, I just looked at the net profits, but that net profits doesn't include what the cost of the paddleboat or the cost of the... Ruegemer: No, that was all budgeted out of our Lake Ann operations budget. Franks: So when you get a new slush puppy machine, is that like a lease from a vendor? Ruegemer: Yep. That was just basically we sign equipment contracts and we don't have to pay for the purchase of the machine or the equipment. Moes: Jerry, just a quick observation on Airin's time there. That may actually be a 4 week time period. From 6/28 to 7/26. Just in look at it, that might be what that jumps out. Ruegemer: I can take a look at that. Moes: I just noticed that when I was looking at that. Hoffman: A light agenda and you guys... 10 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Lash: That's right. Don't ever look for a light agenda again Jay. They try and cut us slack and you stray. Anybody else they want to nit pick apart on this? Good job Jerry. Way to go. Franks: That decision to drop the gate fee looks better and better every year, let me tell you. RECREATION CENTER MONTHLY REPORT. Hoffman: Susan is not here. Nothing to add from our standpoint. We're excited to be back in business at the Rec Center. Lash: Does anybody have anything? Franks: Just how's the child care thing going? Are they still offering that as a service? Hoffman: Yes. Franks: The numbers are still working out okay? Hoffman: Well the numbers are not there during the summer but now they're back. Franks: So they've started it up again? Lash: I'm sure Mike's going to have something to say about preschool soccer. Howe: Actually I do. It doesn't relate to preschool soccer per se. Lash: But that's on here so you can put it in. Howe: ... preschool soccer where I'm an assistant coach. The sprinkler system must come on just before these kids play. And it's wet and these kids are all over the field and is there a way you can change the timing of the sprinkler? Tomorrow's the last day of the whole thing so. Hoffman: When are they playing? Howe: 6:00 Wednesday night and the field is soaked so I figure they must wait until school's over and run the sprinklers. Could that be? I mean last week it didn't rain, it was soaked. Soaked out there. Hoffman: They run them in the mornings. 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 in the morning so we'll check that. Lash: Maybe the a.m.p.m, got screwed up in and it's doing it at 4:00. Howe: The grass is great but it's really wet and I thought if it was running in that interim period that they should try to cut back. 11 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Moes: Well one of the items that was brought to my attention, maybe is a good time to bring it up now as well because where the sprinkler heads are, I mean it seems like there's a 6 foot pole there in the ground. A 6 foot deep hole in the ground that's what, anywhere from 2 to 3 feet deep. What can we do to fill that up? I mean some of the kids have come close to burying themselves in it and those of us that are coaches trying to chase the kids. Hoffman: At the Rec Center? Moes: Yeah. Hoffman: Okay, we'll look at it. They're burying themselves in the hole or in the mud around the hole? Moes: Well, where the sprinkler heads are, it's about a 6 inch ofl~et from where the normal level of grass is so there's a gully where the sprinkler heads are. Hoffman: Those are adjustable. You can raise or lower them if there's been some settling and we just need to go around and raise those back up. Moes: That was the question. It was pointed out to me and said that everything has sunken here and I said, well that's a good point. They are sitting a little low in there. If it's possible to bring that up, I think it'd be a good safety factor for the kids. Lash: That wasn't what I thought you were going to say about preschool soccer Mike. It did have something to do with it being all wet, but I didn't think you were talking about the field conditions. He doesn't want to say it on the record. Okay. PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT. Hoffman: Have you seen the park? Anybody been out? It's green. Ruegemer: A lot of compliments on it. Lash: On Sugarbush? Berg: Great. Hoffman: We planted 30 some trees in there. Lash: And I see Powers is getting re, a final layer on today. Hoffman: And the Bluff Creek trail is pretty well completed. Berg: That's sharp. Boy you go by there in the morning with the fog down low... 12 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Hoffman: ... brand new dike and so it needs to settle out in that wetland area and then they'll come in and do the finish the paving in the spring. Manders: Talking about trails. I have a safety suggestion on the Pioneer, or Powers trail by Carver Beach Road. Just south of that trail on Carver Beach Road there's kind of a bush or a tree that I think could be removed for sight lines. It's dangerously close there. I mean I'm thinking that there's going to be a bike cruising out of there and crunch with a car. Hoffman: Powers and Carver Beach Road? South side? Manders: Yep. Hoffman: I'll see if it's in the right-of-way and then I'll talk to the property owner there. Manders: Yeah, it's right in that comer. Lash: Okay, anything else about trails? Moes: Just one quick one on this Sugarbush Park. Just for my clarification. When you talk about that one, for some reason I was thinking we had talked about putting a berm between the park and the back yards versus trees. Was that a misunderstanding that I had or I was, for some reason I remembered a berm and Sugarbush going together for some reason. Hoffman: The property owners had talked about a berm. Moes: Oh okay, that's what it was. Hoffman: We put a line of trees up there. Moes: The topic did come up. I wasn't quite sure from what direction, okay. Lash: Anything else? ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION: Lash: Okay, under the administrative section, anybody have anything? No? Okay. Franks: Oh I did want to say something. Please do something about the bees this time of the year and the trash cans. Maybe somebody can go out there. Lash: We're at everything. Ruegemer: They're bad everywhere come August 1st. Franks: I mean everywhere. 13 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Lash: But could you take care of them? That'd be good. Ruegemer: Yeah, try to keep the garbage... Moes: One comment was there was garbage cans inside it versus outside of it. Are they usually outside in the open area or inside of the pavilion? Hoffman: Lake Ann, they're upstairs the concrete ones. Ruegemer: Typically they're outside. At Lake Susan they're.., around the area. Berg: Todd, you're not on the Youth Commission anymore? Do we have anybody from Chan? We don't have anybody representing Chan at the Youth Commission? Hoffman: I was never on the Youth Commission. Berg: Oh I thought you were. I thought you were the Chan rep. Hoffman: No. Just administratively wise. Berg: Oh okay. Lash: Anybody up for that? Moes: Yeah. Pull the ad from the Villager if we get someone tonight. Lash: Anyone? Okay, so we have nothing under administrative, right? Anybody have anything? Hoffman: Goose removal, any questions there? Lash: The what? Hoffman: Goose removal. Manders: Not enough. Hoffman: Not enough removed? It's probably going to go, if you read the report, it's not going to last much longer. Goose removal will be obsolete so back to other things. Lash: So the numbers will just start going up again. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORT. 14 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Howe: This would be the race committee, which Rod and I are members. We mn through the tape out there tonight to show you. All I will say is Americlnn I think is very serious about this race. We've been at two meetings now with the manager of that particular motel, and Executive Vice President of the whole organization and he found someone who runs the race in Excelsior on the 4th of July, to give us some experience and ideas of what she's gone through and then she recruited her to be on the committee so they're very serious. They want to do it right. What I would ask commission members to do, and stafl} as you walk, mn, jog, drive through Chanhassen, think of some ideas for a course. That's kind of where we're stuck. We cannot close Highway 5. They're pretty open as far as starting or finishing at their complex there south of TH 5. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, I don't think they're going to mind if we can't end or start there. The foot bridge is nice but it's, the one thing this woman said which is very positive is think about your race in terms of that someday you'll have 1,000 people and the foot bridge won't work with 1,000 people. Franks: Because it doesn't go anywhere. Howe: It doesn't go anywhere. Lash: But if you have 1,000 people, it would sort of trample everything down enough that then wouldn't it be kind of a natural path. Berg: Especially those first 20 that got trampled to death. Franks: Just as long as the train wasn't coming. Howe: Think about some courses through Lake Ann. Through main street, but we're thinking of a September date. Dave Huffman's name, we've got permission to use that. There's another meeting next Wednesday at 5:15 at the hotel. Bring your bathing suit. Not really. Manders: So are you scaring up distances or is this? Howe: 5K. 3.1 miles. I think you'll get a nice cross section of serious runners and family. They really want it to be a family race. But they have, they want it to be I think pretty close to perfect, wouldn't you agree? This guy some not want any comers cut. He wants everything right. He wants to do it right the first time out. He's very serious about that. Berg: Are they ponying up money for it? Franks: They're putting all the upfront money. Lash: So we don't have to do any? Howe: Well, there may be. 15 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Franks: There was more conversation after you left at the last meeting and they finally pinned this person down about what the upfront costs would be. And when they heard the number, he was just right away, that won't be a problem. About $2,500. Howe: They want to do it right and they're very serious. Franks: Everything else, what they would pay the vendors after the race so that's just what they would need for their cost. But Excelsior ran their race, how many thousands did they give away last year? They had. Howe: I don't know. You mean internally? Franks: No, no, no. I mean as far as the revenue that they raised that they ended up giving away. Like $8,000 they had to give away at the conclusion of the race after paying all their expenses. Manders: This year's Excelsior? Franks: Yeah. Manders: That's been run for a little over 20 years. Howe: That's about a 25 year old race. Franks: And this year they actually limited the number of entrants so they're to the point now where they're cutting ofl~ Lash: So they would like to either start or end at the hotel? Howe: If we could. If it doesn't work because the foot bridge doesn't carry enough runners or doesn't go anywhere, you know I think Lake Ann through town. Do you want to be on main street? I think you want to pick some of the high points of the town. The city north of 5 if you can't be south of 5 so that's what, we'd like to get some ideas for a course. Manders: My suggestion is to have a longer race. Then you could take advantage at some point of like the underpass under 5 and Bluff Creek territory and some of that. Howe: I think it's a great idea but I think you'd limit some of the participants. I don't think you'd get as many people who would do it. Manders: Well you don't have to have that be the sole race, but you have it as the option. I mean if you look at most of these runs, they're built around the 10K and then they have a shorter option. Franks: It used to be that way more so. It's not so much that way anymore I don't think. A lot of the races now are just 5K because they're so popular. And especially here. What we were talking is the weekend warrior runner out here. End of the season. It's true, I mean you know. 16 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 This is the, we'll get some real competitive people out but it's going to be people that are you know, that are running and they're going to come out and enjoy the run. Manders: I was just thinking if it's a shorter race you're not going to see much. I mean if that's what you're up to, if you're going to go someplace, 3 miles isn't going to take you very far. Howe: No, but it might take you from Lake Ann, through town, Kerber Pond and I don't know. That's where I need some help. Lash: How long before the access road to Lake Ann is going to be out west to as far as say Galpin? Hoffman: 2001. Lash: Because that'd be a nice, you know Powers, Lake Lucy Road, Galpin, back to Lake Ann. Wouldn't that be about the right amount? Hoffman: 5K you can go Lake Ann, downtown, down Kerber, back across to Lake Ann. Karlovich: Go down Pleasant View for a while and cut down on the traffic level. Lash: They'd just have to run slow. Berg: What's the name of the road that they're bringing through on, they're just finishing now. Off of, you know what I mean, the new one? By Empak. Lash: Oh, yeah. The extension. Berg: If you could incorporate that in there somehow. Hoffman: Either Jerry or I or both of us or some of us are going to that meeting next week and we're going to have routes. Howe: I think we'd like to have everything pretty much ready by the January-February because we wanted to kind of have the Park and Rec Commission's stamp of approval and the City Council's by March. Because that's when the racing season starts and you can have applications in all the race bags around the city and the metro area. You kind of want to have your race out there, even though that would be six months before so that's kind of what we were thinking. Lash: You're talking next September. About a year from now. Howe: That's when the race, yeah, next September. Berg: Would they be open to things like getting other corporate sponsors? 17 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Franks: Absolutely. Howe: They talked about that too. These guys, they're doing the work. Franks: They were kind of talking about waiting, get this feeling that Northcott, which is the parent company of Americlnn, are making their corporate home here. Like the new office building. And so when I was talking to this, what was, Kent. He was kind of saying, you know how Curt Carlson is up there, but you know we're going to be here you know. 3M is out in Maplewood and we're going to be here and so they really are seeing this as wanting to really make their mark in the community and stuff so they are really invested in making this happen. Howe: They are very serious and they're working very hard. So that's all I have. Hoffman: What a committee. Lash: Any other committees? We don't have any other committees, do we? Any other committees? Oh, okay. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS. Lash: Mike do you have anything? Dave, you've got some stuff right? Moes: Just an additional.., out at Bluff Creek or the Rec Center where the soccer is. You've got those nice bleachers that we've got around the baseball and softball fields. If it's possible to move them for soccer viewing now. Hoffman: Sure. Done. Moes: Thank you. The fans thank you. Lash: Do you have anything else? Moes: That's it. Lash: Rod, have you got any? Franks: No, just a comment for staff if you want to pass it along but just around town I've been noticing the grass is cut, seeding is going in all over the place. Things are just being finished up and with the short staffI think everybody just must be working really hard. Signage. Everything. Hoffman: Thanks for noticing Rod. I'll pass it along. Lash: I just have a couple different things. The first one was I went through the Pulte townhouses in Shakopee yesterday because we talked about that at the last meeting and drove around to where they're little totlot was and it was a little totlot. Let me tell you. It was pretty weeny. I'm not 18 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 kidding. This is what it was. There was a little tunnel slide, with a little platform and then there was a tube and then on the end of the tube was just one of those little low double slides things. And then on one side there were stairs that went up to the platform so you could go on the slide or in the tube, and on the other side was a climber. Two different kinds, just little kind of climber like firemen pole kind of climbers and that was it. So in my opinion that would be totally inadequate if that is their perception of meeting the needs of a totlot. I just don't see that as up to our standards. Our high standards. Manders: I think that's a great idea. Are there some around that we can point out being more in line with our standards? Lash: Probably ones that we put in. Franks: I visited Mission Hills again last Sunday just to drive through to take a look too and they happen to be, or Saturday. And they happen to be having like a garage sale thing and I thought oh, interesting right. Every sale was kids stuff and so. Lash: Because all their kids have moved out. Franks: It's not like anecdotal but I mean like every sale that they had, it was all Little Tykes stuff and baby clothes and I thought you know, there's going to be a ton of kids in that new development. Those little totlots are not going to do it. Lash: It was lame. It was really very, although it was a nice color combination. So that was the Pulte thing. And the other thing that I was wondering, do we have a web site? Hoffman: Yes. Lash: Oh we do. Oh, my son needs to set one up for school and I just told his instructor tonight, maybe we could do one for the city for park and rec and he thought that was the greatest idea. Well that's not going to work now. Okay. That's all I have. Berg: Nothing. Lash: Jim. Manders: I was just going to bring up a comment about, isn't there a meeting tonight on this 101 thing? Hoffman: Yes. Manders: So is that just going to general informational meeting or are they going to talk about trails and stuff like that on there? 19 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - September 28, 1999 Hoffman: Oh sure. Trails will be on the agenda. Anita Benson is hosting that out at the Rec Center. Manders: So that's just something that's kind of beginning of something or is it just a meeting to pacify somebody for a while? Hoffman: Well, it's intended to me the meeting of something. Starting the beginning of something but 101 north has been around for a long time so. Manders: So there's really no new news that's there's reason to be excited? Hoffman: They're in the planning stages trying to decide number of lanes, those type of things and they need agreements from the cities so the best way to do that is to continue the education of those citizens who are interested and that's the reason for the meeting. Karlovich: More lanes on Pleasant View. Manders: Yeah, but they're patrolling that now. Berg: Do we have a meeting coming up with the City Council? Or did I sleep through that. Lash: You slept through it. Remember when I kept saying speak up any time now. You were sleeping through it. Berg: That's right, we left you hanging out there didn't we? Lash: Pretty much, yeah. Hoffman: The speed trap on Pleasant View had cued, somebody got wise and they posted a sign a block before the speed trap and just said speed trap ahead. Howe: Where was that at? Hoffman: They're been writing tickets. Lots of tickets. Lash: Okay, anybody else have anything? We have administrative packet. I think I already asked about that out of order but. Okay, then I think we're ready to adjourn. Franks moved, Howe seconded to adjourn the Park and Recreation Commission meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 2O