PRC 1998 12 15CHANHASSEN PARK AND
RECREATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 15, 1998
Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Jim Manders, Ron Roeser, Fred Berg, Mike Howe, Rod
Franks and Dave Moes
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Recreation Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation
Supervisor
Public Present:
Name Address
Mike Mason
Nancy Mancino
Linda Jansen
City Council
Mayor
City Council elect
VISITOR PRESENTATIONS:
Mike Mason, outgoing council member, thanked the commission for their service to the
community.
(Taping of the meeting began at this point in the discussion.)
FOX CHASE/CARVER BEACH PEDESTRIAN TRAIL CONNECTION.
Berg: ... What happened? How come it didn't get done back in '83? ... all these other different
things that got lost?
Hoffman: Didn't get it done, yeah. It's an important connector. If you use these trails as you
come down through Lotus and then the new one that goes beiween the end of Carver Beach and
the big one and then the trail around Kerber Pond. This is kind of the interior connector beiween
here and downtown versus Kerber Boulevard. A lot of people are finding that they can go Kerber
on one half of their route and...
Lash: So are you looking for a motion?
Hoffman: No. We're going to table it until January. I'll send out notices and we'll bring
residents in and see what they want to do.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
PROGRAM REPORTS:
A. 1998/99 OUTDOOR SKATING.
Ruegemer: Just to give the commission a quick update as to where we're at at this point. All the,
in hopes of some colder weather, if that's a good hope, we're going to be delivering the wanning
house trailers tomorrow. We'll be having four trailers this year with the, as you know the City
Center wanning house was demolished and burned this last summer here so we will be having a
portable trailer at that location. A portable trailer at North Lotus, Chanhassen Hills and Round
House Park this winter. Those will be delivered tomorrow and park maintenance crews then will
hook up the power. Make sure all the phones and that are working. Get those up to speed and
we'll be ready to go by the time we do start working. We're going to be doing staff training next
Monday night, the 21st. Just to get everybody familiarized, as familiar with how to turn on the
lights. You know policies and procedures. Those types of issues will be resolved that night.
Depending on when the weather's going to be getting cold and the park maintenance crews start,
it will probably be at least a week of heavy flooding before we would open I would imagine at
this point so. Will we have ice by Christmas? It's hard to say, but we'll certainly do everything
we can to get that up and going. Since I wrote this memo we have hired some additional people
to work. We're at about 10 to 11 kids now, which is my comfort zone. I feel a lot better than I
have in the past years so we'll get those, the new employees in for our staff training next Monday
night so they're set to go. Up to speed and ready to go so, basically right now it's just kind of a
wait and see game. Trying to see where we're going to end up here. There's not a whole lot of
frost in the ground yet but the cold weather, I'm sure that will be coming soon so. It's nice to
have some extra time to have some phone lines we needed to get in yet into the park so with the
cold weather that's helped us, or with the warm weather that helped us a lot. Does anybody have
any questions?
TREE LIGHTING EVALUATION:
Hoffman: Thanks to those who worked. It was kind of a drizzly night but nevertheless.
Berg: Good turnout for that kind of night.
Ruegemer: The bonfire was nice.
Berg: It sure was...
RECREATION CENTER.
Hoffman: ... I think one area we want to continue to... the commission on is that the room rentals
are having difficulty making money due to all the free community activities that are taking place
so that's a negative. It's simply a real reality and all the groups have been kind of boiled down.
The where you get in free? At what level and for community groups that are taking advantage of
it and I think that's wonderful. But we just have to realize that it costs us approximately a quarter
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
of a million dollars to keep the doors open on an annual basis and we earn approximately
$150,000.00 so we mn that center at a $100,000.00 deficit. You could change that. You could,
you probably could not break even no matter what you did but we would also then simply do
more acting more as a business, not as a community facility I believe so. We're comfortable as a
staff at this time. Operating guidelines and I think the community appreciates the value they're
receiving in that building.
Lash: How about the City Council? Are they comfortable with the financial?
Hoffman: I don't know. I don't know.
Lash: I think initially when we started this whole thing, and our rentals and our philosophy, it was
this whole thing was pursued because we needed a space where people could have meetings and
do things that a community needs to do and we didn't have that and we looked at this as an
opportunity to provide that. However, we didn't want to make everybody have to pay for it too
where before they had been using the lunchroom at the school or whatever. They weren't having
to pay for some of those kind of things so we've really been I think tom as a commission too. As
much as we'd like to see it be a break even operation for the city, where do we look at it as who's
providing a place for the residents when they need it and where we break even you know.
Audience: ...
Lash: I think staff has you know over the years looked at different ways of trying to have
incentives and have some strong. They've tried quite a few different things and I think lots of
things work but room rental overall I think would be the biggest money maker there so if every
time it was used someone was paying a fee, that would be a big impact but I think.
Audience...
Hoffman: Less than a third. There's some big ones that pay that book in and then we move the
free ones around. Around those. We track the in time payments. I don't allow them to book
those, they just want to book them against the balance sheet but I said no. That's...
Audience:...
Hoffman: Government, go ahead and look at the policies. They're pretty simple but government,
community based, etc., etc ....
Lash: Non profit kind of organization, wouldn't you say?
Hoffman: Yes. Non-profit. Government.
Berg: Girl Scouts, Brownies.
Lash: Neighborhood groups. CAA.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Berg: Wasn't January 1st when we were going to take a hard look at the daycare also? They
were going to give us some six month data or whatever.
Hoffman: It's improved. No doubt about it.
Lash: So we'll see that in January then? Good. Anything else on the rec center?
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS: 1999 MEETING SCHEDULE.
Hoffman: No real big surprises. Unless any commissioners have concerns, comments, or
suggested other dates. We will look to the fourth Tuesday of each month with the exception of
December which is the second Tuesday, the 14th.
Lash: Okay. Does anyone have a problem with any of those dates?
Berg: I have a question Jerry. When is February? When did we decide the February Festival is?
Ruegemer: This year?
Berg: Yeah.
Ruegemer: February 6th.
Hoffman: It's always the first Tuesday in February. Or the first Saturday in February.
Ruegemer: Yes.
Lash: No, because it fell on Valentine's Day last year.
Berg: This is the new policy.
Lash: Oh! It's going to be the new tradition.
Hoffman: It will always be. It will always be the first Saturday in February.
Lash: Okay. Do you need a motion to adopt the schedule?
Hoffman: Please.
Lash: Is there a motion to adopt this?
It was moved and seconded to adopt the 1999 Park and Recreation Commission meeting
schedule. All voted in favor and the motion carried.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS-RACE COMMITTEE.
Howe: Rod and I met with Sheila, the manager of the Americlnn last night about a possible race
sometime next year. I was very impressed with her. She's done her homework. She talked to a
number of other race sponsors in the area. Had a big, thick notebook full of names, phone
numbers. We gave her a few suggestions. She liked the Dave Huffman idea. You could tie that
in as we talked about, and Rod feel free to fill in here ifI miss something. But you could possibly
get the Vikings, the media, a charity. I think we need to somehow, do we need to ask Dave
Huffman's estate or his wife if we can do this, his name? I think that would be proper. Just what
if, what would his birthday be. If we could get that. If there's a way we could come close here.
I think Sheila was thinking a race date sometime in September.
Franks: Right.
Howe: However I thought you may get more Vikings if you had it later in the summer. But see
then it has to mesh with the existing western metro race schedule. What's available out there. We
didn't talk money or anything yet. We said we had to come back to the commission and kind of
get a feeling for what was happening here. But I think she's committed. The owner of this whole
chain lives in Victoria. I didn't know that and this is the.
Franks: ... hotel, it's their flagship. One of the four corporate hotels out of like 160.
Howe: Yeah, so this guy's right down the road and he wants to, apparently he said he wanted to
give back to the community. He'd like to be a part of it so there's still a lot of work to be done.
Franks: What they're looking for from us I think is one, some cooperation. Making sure we can
get the permit and set up traffic control and get the streets blocked off and to facilitate working
around all those type of technical issues. And then also some financial involvement on the city's
part too... And there were no set dollar amounts talked about.
Howe: We didn't talk about that.
Franks: They said now the Marsh, she was comparing what we would be doing to more like what
the Marsh does over Thanksgiving with the Turkey Trot. About the same scale of race. They've
got a few hundred runners that show up and they actually now are making money but it's taking
them a number of years to actually show any kind of profit. So it's, you know it's potentially not
a money loser for us but it will require maybe a few years of investment on our part before we
recoup.
Lash: To show my ignorance about all this stuff because I have no clue, but do people actually
pay to come and do this?
Franks: A lot to do this.
Howe: People pay. But you've got to give them a t-shirt.
Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Franks: You'd be surprised what people will pay for that t-shirt.
Howe: You've got to give them a t-shirt.
Franks: And water stufl~
Lash: Okay so like how much?
Hoffman: $10.00 to $30.00.
Franks: Yeah, 10 to 30. 30 gets you a sweatshirt. 10 gets you a t-shirt...
Howe: And some that, some of the races downtown, the big ones they have a charity that's a co-
sponsor too so the charity's taking some of that money but if you get you know a charity, the
media, the Vikings, that's just three more outlets you have and that's a lot more people who are
going to get the word so I think you try to broaden the scope as wide as you can. I don't know
what charity Dave Huffman worked with, if any. Maybe there isn't one but that, you know.
Franks: They were looking to have a race in September of '99. That'd be a pretty tight
countdown between now until doing the first race in '99, so I was a little surprised to hear that
but. I mean it could be done.
Lash: I heard from a friend of mine who used to work out at Waconia Hospital and they have a
thing right there... Anyway, she said she still knows some of the people and she said there's some
one at the clinic who's been trying to get something like this going and that Waconia would be
very interested in participating possibly.
Franks: Well you brought that up, the Ridgeview Medical Center.
Lash: And if you're interested in the person... I don't know. I mean I'd have to ask her.
Howe: Would you ask her and I'll give you a call later on.
Franks: It also sounds like the Chamber is really behind this kind of thing... Vemelle Clayton I
assume probably will be part of the committee too.
Howe: I thought Sheila had covered all the bases. She was prepared.
Manders: What kind of runner or race are you considering?
Franks: Probably a 5K.
Howe: No more than 10K.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Franks: It's the most popular. The one that draws the largest number of participants. Instead of
going to the longer race, because you really start limiting who's going to show up.
Lash: So an iron man is out.
Howe: The iron man is out.
Franks: The iron man is out.
Lash: How about, see I mean you're just thinking, Dave Huffman. Iron man. You know.
Franks: We can call it the...
Lash: How about modified?
Berg: The eight people that show up will like the name.
Hoffman: Dave could do, he could do a 5K and not an iron man.
Lash: Well can't you make your own iron man? I mean just redo everything?...
Berg: I bet you we could get Channel 11 and KFAN involved.
Franks: Right. We talked about that too.
Hoffman: Yeah, Ridgeview sponsors the Lake Waconia Triathlon race. That's a big endeavor for
those folks.
Lash: See maybe they already did that then. I don't know, maybe they wanted to do it here and it
ended up out there.
Hoffman: Yeah, they do it on an annual basis. Out there in Waconia.
Howe: They get a lot of people for that. That's really well done.
Hoffman: It's a big event. They had to cancel it two years ago due to lightning threat.
Lash: If it was iron man, nobody would...
Franks: So I guess what we were kind of left thinking, is this something that, considering that
there's a very strong likelihood that we'd have to pony up some money for this, is that something
that we want to continue to pursue?
Roeser: Are you talking Park and Rec or the Council?
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Franks: Well the city somewhere has got to cover it.
Roeser: I think the city council's going to have to...
Lash: How much pony?
Franks: Well we don't know.
Lash: Just a little pony or like a...
Hoffman: I tossed around $3,000.00 to $4,000.00.
Franks: It depends on what package it serves...
Lash: What would we have to pay for?
Franks: Well you would have to, usually you contract with a company to provide the bib numbers
and then you contract with a company that does the timing.
Howe: We may have to play the police overtime to stop traffic.
Franks: Yeah, then you have to pay for traffic control.
Howe: Satellite toilets and just thinks like that.
Hoffman: T-shirts. Advertisement.
Lash: Okay, but I expect their registration fee will pay for the shirts.
Franks: Typically. But there's like the other types of overhead that the registration fee is not
going to cover.
Hoffman: There's a risk that you expect 400 and you get 40.
Franks: That's why in the first years, you know races become really popular word of mouth and
then people repeat the same races again and again and again and they.., so that's why the first few
years of the race you really don't expect to make money.
Howe: Well I know dam well we'd get 11 people. I know that from sitting here.
Audience: ...
Franks: Well if the Chamber's involved, especially with their retail committee's heavily involved
so it's my guess that they'll be working that angle pretty hard.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Lash: I mean it grew into you know something that's huge, I mean people buying gas and.
Hoffman: Yeah, the $4,000.00 wouldn't be the full tab. They'd be seeking out names. You
know title sponsors would also pay. Americana would have to kick in $3,000.00-$4,000.00. The
big sponsors would have to kick in a couple thousand apiece.
Howe: So do we have your permission just to keep talking with her, and see where we go? I
mean we're not talking money yet.
Lash: I think we have to contact Dave's family first just to make sure we can use the name.
That's the first, and I don't really look at that as much of a hurdle, do you?
Hoffman: I don't know.
Lash: I don't know. I mean I'd be kind of flattered.
Franks: The second thing that we'd like to look at and maybe Todd you can assist with this is, the
cost of the law enforcement angle and what that would run.
Hoffman: Okay.
Franks: I'm pretty sure that's where they're looking for our involvement is just to deal with all of
that.
Roeser: This all comes down to one day right?
Franks: One day. Few hours actually. And they want the bridge involved so we have to use the
bridge. The pedestrian bridge.
Berg: It would be appropriate if it's named after Dave.
Roeser: I think so too. I think if it starts there and, I was thinking they should start it at the
bottom of TH 101.
Berg: Are these typically run on a Saturday or Sunday?
Franks: Yes. Usually on Saturday. Some are on Sunday. Mornings. Early...
Roeser: So by 2:00 in the afternoon you're done with it...
Audience:...
Franks: That's one thing we talked about too is highlights.
Howe: We were going to tie it up with the downtown.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Roeser: Well 5K now, that isn't really long is it?
Franks: 3.1 miles.
Lash: That's not bad.
Howe: So I said, 11 people. I'm serious.
Lash: I could walk it.
Franks: A lot of people do walk 5K. There's some people who walk 5K who actually finish
before some people who are trying to run it.
Berg: You and I will walk.
Howe: We didn't even talk about a course. I think that's, you know we have to get the
groundwork laid and then talk about where does this go and how it will be...
Manders: What is the American Inn there. What's their angle on this?
Franks: Promotion.
Lash: People spending the night.
Manders: If they're kicking $3,000.00-$4,000.00, that's like piddlely for what they're getting out
of it. It seems to me that they want to make a bigger splash unless they're just kind of. My guess
is that they would be a primary sponsor.
Howe: They are thinking of being one of the primary sponsors.
Franks: Yeah. They are thinking about being one of the primary sponsors. That's why this
Sheila is doing all the work and I think she's been directed to do this work. Because she was busy
that day we were there and then she was doing this on top of it and it's like, she being directed to
do this.
Berg: So are you questioning their motives?
Manders: I just want to understand it. I think it's great but.
Franks: We were guessing that maybe they have a grand plan that sooner or later there'd be the
ultimate marathon where you run from Americlnn to Americlnn....and you stay over night and go
onto the next one. Kind of like that cross country skiing they do along the north shore...
Lash: Well I say we check with, yes first.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Howe: Todd, can you do that?
Hoffman: Sure.
Howe: Could you call and see his birthday and if there was a charity.., he ever worked with.
Franks: And she would also like to know what the permit process would be or you know what
we need to do to close roads or utilize the trails for something like this.
Hoffman: Okay. Yes. This has been talked about for 10 years. And staffing levels, we did not
see it as an obligation of the city to sponsor a race in town. There needs to be another entity and
the Chamber is a good one. But traditionally over the years the Chamber, you know it starts well
we'll help but we've provided a great deal of support as well on the city level not only from
staffing, the rec staff but public works and park maintenance and public safety. If you added up
all the contribution of what the city entails to make it work, it starts to be the largest slice of the
pie and we just can't take on event after event after event so. We need to make sure that that other
half of the equation is there, attached so there's labor and all those things.
Lash: So what kind of things could they do back and tell her that, other than the money, that we'd
be able to provide. What else? They want permits. They want to help coordinating the traffic
control and, so is this something that stafl~ somebody on staff can help with?
Hoffman: Not right now.
Lash: Okay.
Hoffman: We don't know where we're going to land with staffing in 1999. Once we know that,
then we'll be better able to let you know.
Berg: What did we spend on the fall festival when we had it? Remember?
Hoffman: $8,000.00.
Ruegemer: No, a little bit more than that. Probably 10 to 11.
Lash: So does that mean here that we don't know what's going to happen with Patty's position
or?
Hoffman: Oh yeah, I hope to fill Patty's position but we don't know where that's going to land
and we have an intern that we may or may not get. Some rec center issues to deal with.
Lash: So when are we supposed to...
Franks: Well we'll tell her what we know.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Howe: Just keep talking and say.
Franks: We're going to operate, I think we'll just keep operating with the idea that we're going
to, at this point shoot for a race sometime you know in mid September and see what we can do.
Howe: Go start training.
Hoffman: And then the dollar thing, you know we can loosen up $3,000.00 or $4,000.00
somewhere in the rec budget. We just need to let the council know where we would want to do
that and receive authorization to do that sometime in January.
Franks: And the other thing to think about too is once there enough monies coming in through
registration to cover, and contributions to cover cost, how the city is able also to cover some of
it's costs instead of those just being lost. And so we talked with Sheila about all of that being set
up ahead of time. Even though it's not likely that we would even be in the break even proposition
for a couple years but all those guidelines would be set up ahead of time. Especially ifa charity
is involved. How the donations to charity would all take place based on what the costs. So I'll be
attending law school.
Hoffman: Thanks both to you Mike and Rod for picking up on that and meeting with Sheila. We
appreciate it.
Howe: She gave us a bunch of free rooms too.
Lash: Any other commission member reports?
Howe: I don't have anything?
Lash: Dave?
Moes: Nothing.
Franks: No.
Lash: Jim?
Manders: One thing. Not intentionally jumping ahead to administrative section but you probably
noticed a little graffiti down at Lake Ann.
Lash: Where was that?
Manders: The pavilion.
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Park and Rec Commission Meeting - December 15, 1998
Hoffman: It's been a tough year. There's a couple of restitution issues in this packet. I met with
parents and a youth on... as much of an irritant as it is. It also costs us a good deal on money on
an annual basis and said the number one cause of damage against our parks on an annual basis.
Franks: That restitution money, where does that go? When it comes to the city.
Hoffman: Right back to Fund 410. Park acquisition and development. It costs us dearly to get it.
Lash: Anything else Jim? No? Okay.
ADMINISTRATIVE SECTION.
Lash: Anything under administrative section?
Hoffman: We plan to go back early in the summer, the ones that are in here, picnic tables.
Howe: Those were the ones that were throwing the picnic tables out of.
Hoffman: Yes. Out of the pavilion.
Lash: Jerry, did you need help with the bowling party?
Ruegemer: I lined up some girl scouts. About 8 to 10 girl scouts have volunteered for that. Did
you have some people in mind?
Lash: No, but last year...
Ruegemer: Are kids out of school that day?
Lash: Yes. Okay, anything else? Anything else under the administrative section?
Nancy Mancino addressed the commission at the conclusion of the meeting discussing the
Bluff Creek Corridor Plan and potential plans for a senior garden space.
Manders moved, Howe seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the
motion carried.
Submitted by Todd Hoffman
Park and Rec Director
Prepared by Nann Opheim
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