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PRC 1998 02 04CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 4, 1998 Chairwoman Lash called the meeting to order. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jan Lash, Ron Roeser, Fred Berg, Mike Howe, Rod Franks and Jane Meger MEMBERS ABSENT: Jim Manders STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. TRAIL PROJECT ALIGNMENT OF GALPIN BOULEVARD NORTH OF LAKE LUCY ROAD. Lash: Commissioners took a site tour before this meeting, most of us, so we're all pretty familiar with the looks of our two options. So Todd, do you want to do an introduction or do you want Dave to get into it? Hoffman: I'll let Dave take it right from the top. Dave Nyberg: Thanks Todd. As some of the commissioners know anyway, we just went out to the site to take a look at things. I've got the letter dated February 3rd. At the request of Mr. Hoffman he asked me to prepare this as a report to you on some different options or different issues for the trail extending on the east or west side of Galpin Boulevard north of Lake Lucy. I could either go through the letter just briefly or just open it up for questions from the commission, whichever you'd prefer. Hoffman: Do you all have the letter? Dave Nyberg: I have several extra copies if anybody didn't receive one. Lash: Okay. How about if we just open it up. Are there people in the audience who would like him to go through the information in the letter? Have you seen it? Okay, why don't we just take a moment of silence. Hoffman: These meetings have taken on a whole new direction. Like church. Howe: That's politically incorrect. Very. Lash: Okay, let's move on. Is there anyone with a question? Comments for Dave. Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 Dave Nyberg: I do have a couple items I could add to the letter that have been recent developments since I wrote the letter. One is the comments from U.S. West. I had a comment in the letter that NSP said there would be a charge for moving the poles because the poles are on, if the trail is constructed on the east side, because the west side is a viable alternative. There are five telephone boxes on the east side. I had a meeting with Jim Monson from U.S. West today. Their phone lines are on the east side, where those telephone boxes are and he could not give me a cost to move those boxes but they may ask the City to pay a portion at least of that cost. We really don't know what that is but that may be a factor to consider for that side. And the other development is, it's really not a development but we talked to Mr. Phil Elkin, the Water Resource Coordinator about that potential wetland impact. It's difficult to quantify the cost of that. We've got some dollars in the construction estimates for the cost to build it. As far as the impact, that would be additional credit that would come out of the city wetland bank that would just, it just wouldn't be used for other projects. He does have the credits there with the Highway 5 project that's pending. In the coming years he'll probably use quite a few of his credits. He does have the, now it's difficult to quantify the value of that but there is a value to it. Other than that I can take any questions the commission has at this time. Lash: Anyone on the commission with questions for Dave? Are there audience members who have questions about the latest information? Sam, did you get a copy of the letter? Sam Mancino: Pardon? Lash: Did you get a copy of this latest letter? The February 3rd. Okay. I have a question. After our site visit tonight we were looking at some different options and of not entering into the.., area and I guess I'm interested Dave on page 2 of your letter, which of those properties then would we not be affecting? Not going to the Shorewood area. Dave Nyberg: You mean the list showing trees and vegetation? None of those are in Shorewood. Those are all up the hill from Melody Circle in the City of Chanhassen. Lash: Okay. I'll open this up for commissioner comments. Mike, why don't we start with you. Howe: After the site tour I think, based on what Dave's work in this new letter, I still like the west side of the road and I think it's worth considering strongly that we end it at, is that Pleasant Hill down there? That was an expensive construction work. I'm not sure how much we really benefit from carrying it forward. That would be where I'm going to come from I think. West side. I think there's less tree loss and we've seen that we can save some of those trees and those arborvitae's and you know.., road so that's my view. Meger: I would agree. From what I've seen with the west side, significant cost and moving the utility poles and again the less loss of trees on the west side. And I believe initially I had indicated that I would prefer to see the trail go as far as... I'm certainly willing to talk about that to consider stopping it in Chanhassen. Lash: Rod. 2 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 Franks: It was very helpful to see.., what you're seeing on construction costs. My concern is, since we're already looking at possibly.., funds to fund the whole project, that we try to keep costs to a minimum. From dipping into reserves to a minimum. Taking that into account, I guess that I'm in favor of maintaining the trail on the west side. I'd also be open to, well I'd be interested in hearing comments from anyone in the audience about ending the trail at Pheasant. Dave Nyberg: Pheasant Drive. Franks: Pheasant Drive or continue on to Mayflower. Lash: I would agree. I think the west side, in the end, would cause the least disruption and would make the best flow in the trail and financially would be the most responsible to that. And I would be in favor of stopping it at Pheasant Hill and not doing the portion that goes down into Shorewood. Berg: I agree with everything that's been said so far about stopping at Pheasant Hill and also keeping it on the west. I would add that, to me it seems safer to be on the west, particularly when you're coming down the hill. When the cars are going faster on the east side and you're coming around that curve. The trail's not going to be that far off the road and to me, if it's on the west side and the cars are coming up the hill, they're by definition going a little bit slower and make it a little bit safer. So that and the cost would be my reasons for wanting it. Lash: Ron. Roeser: Same thing. I agree with the rest of the commission. I would favor going, I feel like Jane. I think I'd like to end it inside of the border but there's going to be some cost savings there and it just. And also, this has got to go to the Council... difference of fifty some thousand dollars is... I think this is what the Council would agree with. Lash: And I really agree with Rod's comments too about, you know you're already going into the reserve, we really need to be as prudent as possible considering we really don't have budgeted the money to start with. We need to try and do it in the best way we can. Is there, I am going to re-open this because I know this is sort of a new option that's being thrown out. Just to see if there's anyone who has, would like to add. Benno Sand: Good evening. I'm Benno Sand. I live at 1910 Moline Circle, and I still feel pretty strongly that the trail should continue onto Melody Hill because there are a lot of people in the Pheasant Hill development and Melody Hill developments that do use Galpin Lake Boulevard to access Excelsior and it would be a lot safer if we had the bike trail to ride on as opposed to walking on the, typically on the east side of that road as cars are coming down that hill. Now I can speak to a couple of instances where we've been on the road late in the evening and it's very unsafe and we've had to head in the ditch with strollers or what have you so I would prefer to see it go. As far as safety, crossing at Pheasant Drive. Yes, I agree. It is safer to be on the west side of the road as cars are coming down, but on the other hand everyone is going to have to cross at Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 the base, on that curve from Pheasant to access the trail on the west side. So I guess if the commission feels that we should put it on the west side, I'm in favor of that. I just would ask that you somehow put some kind of a crossing or caution signs at the top of the hill or something to control the speed. I think last meeting it was referred to as dead mans curve and I can attest to at least 8 or 10 cars that I've seen off the road there so you know I think we've got to do something to control speed. Whether that's amber lights at the top of the hill or at Pheasant to indicate that it is a crossing lane to access the bike trail. Thank you. Lash: Anyone else? Sam Mancino: Sam Mancino, 6620 Galpin Boulevard. I met the other day with Todd and Dave and walked the property and to the extent that the trail is along the west side, I'd appreciate if the, if you could direct language into the wording of whatever proposal you make, that would stipulate that the trees on that property are preserved and are protected through the construction phase and the snow removal or maintenance of the property because I know how these things tend to work is that everybody sort of agrees to the broad concepts but it's never put into language. So it sort of gets forgotten in the construction phase. So some of the things that are critical to us are, minimum setback from the edge of the road. Minimum trail width that we can possibly get by with so to me that sounds like 8 feet starting at the edge of the road from the curb. And in one section, at the very southern edge, I would like engineering to be directed to look at every opportunity to go to a 2 1/2 to 1 grade or whatever is necessary so that the soil doesn't have to be sloped back into the root system of the trees. And that's one critical piece that needs to be attended to. But if we can do that, I think this should work out fine. So I'd appreciate if you could draft language into your proposal. Thank you. Lash: Anyone else? Jane Schlangen: I'm Jane Schlangen, 1941 Melody Hill Circle and I live right at the top and where the kids come out, or right on Melody Hill is where kids will come off from the West Junior High. And they will travel down the road, go down the trail.., and again with the trail marking or something. I don't know if you could even get a school crosswalk thing. I don't know what you do but I'd agree with Ben fully on that. Because really nobody will be, otherwise you're stopping here... Lash: Thanks. Is the bottom road, is that the Pheasant Drive? Anyone else from the audience? Dan DeWeese: I'm Dan DeWeese on 1940 Whitetail Ridge Court. Just a comment about the school children getting access to the junior high or the school property up on Melody Hill. There's quite a few kids that are already cutting up Whitetail Ridge Court from the Pheasant Hills Addition, or from the Pheasant Hills development area. They cut through some of the yards down there. Then they cross Galpin Boulevard and then move on up and then go up the road to, up Melody Hill to get to the school. Just it stands to reason to me that ifI were a parent, either in the development back there or anyplace down there, any kids that are heading over that way that are walking to school, especially in the springtime, fall, they're going to need access to that road 4 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 without having the trail end before they get to that road. It's just not that much farther but I think it would add incrementally to the safety features for the children in particular. Lash: Mayflower, is that what you're saying? Dan DeWeese: Not to Mayflower. Up to Melody Hill. Lash: Which is where? Where's Melody Hill? Dan DeWeese: That's. Lash: Which is we're talking about going beyond Melody Hill. Dan DeWeese: Oh you are? Lash: We're going to go to Pheasant Drive. Dan DeWeese: Well I came in late so I missed that part. Sorry about that. Okay, thank you. Lash: Oh, okay. So everybody's clear what we're talking about? Okay. Anyone else with a comment? Jim Ronning: I'm Jim Ronning, 6640 Galpin Boulevard. I'd like to echo the comments of Mr. Mancino. It's very important to us that the vegetation along Galpin Boulevard, on our property, be left intact. Also I think that you do have an obligation to the public who voted on this project for a specific budget to remain within budget. I think one of the ways you could do that would be to eliminate the curb and just have a bike lane along whatever side of the road you choose to have it. There was one comment made that I'd like to disagree with regarding the safety of the bike path at the, going down the hill. I have now taught 5 of my 7 children how to ride bicycles and I know what children do on bicycles. And whenever they get going down a hill and out of control, what they always do is go to the outside of the curb and especially if you're going to end the bike trail there at, is it Pleasant. They're going to be coming down that hill at a pretty fast head of steam and if they're having any problems, they're going to be deviating right out into traffic. And they're naturally going to have to do that anyway to end the bike trail there. They're going to be going on the bike trail. They're going to have to jump right out into the opposing traffic and if they can't handle the curve, they'll be right out in traffic head on. So that's a concern you should consider as well but my primary concern is that you maintain minimum setbacks and stay within the budgeted costs that the voters voted on. Thank you. Sam Mancino: I should remember to do this all at one time. It occurred to me that currently the space between the road and where our trees are, but also along the length of that particular area, the snowmobiles currently use that and I know that they're having a problem with ever decreasing amount of availability for trails. But with this trail going in, it's going to further push them closer to some of this property. Have you given any thought to excluding snowmobile traffic along the right-of-way of the trail? I think you're not going to start to create a second problem and I guess Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 my recommendation is, is if people are already in essence burdened by having a trail adjacent to their properly, they shouldn't have to have the snowmobiles crowd in even closer. So I would opt to have some sort of posting to say, don't go there. So if you could do some thinking about that. Lash: Thanks. Gordon Stamp: I'm Gordon Stamp. I live at 1960 Whitetail Ridge Court and our properly which is adjacent to Galpin would be significantly impacted if the trail were built on the east side of the road so of course we're clearly in favor of the engineer's report as well as Todd's recommendations. Lash: Okay, anyone else? Okay, we'll be closing public comment. Do the commissioners have any other? Okay, who is going to make a motion? Berg: I move that we propose to the City Council that the Galpin Boulevard trail from Lake Lucy Road to, I'll start over. That the trail, proposed trail be built from Lake Lucy Road to, is it Pheasant Hill? What is the name of the street? Dave Nyberg: Pheasant Drive. Berg: Pheasant Drive. That it be constructed on the west side of Galpin with the following stipulations. That every precaution, every conceivable precaution be taken to protect the vegetation along Galpin. That we also recommend that appropriate signage at Pheasant Drive and above the hill be put in to warn of pedestrian traffic. Lash: How about maintenance? Berg:... Lash: But with sensitivity, you know salt... That maintenance be sensitive to the vegetation. Berg: I would add that too. That they make every attempt to maintain the trails as ecologically kind as possible. Lash: Is there a second to that motion? Howe: Second. Berg moved, Howe seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend that the City Council approve the trail on Galpin Boulevard be built on the west side from Lake Lucy Road to Pheasant Drive with the following stipulations: 1. That every conceivable precaution be taken to protect the vegetation along Galpin 6 Park and Rec Commission Meeting - February 4, 1998 That appropriate signage at Pheasant Drive and above the hill be put in to warn of pedestrian traffic. That the maintenance staff be as ecologically sensitive as possible concerning the vegetation along the trail. All voted in favor and the motion carried. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: None. ADMINISTRATIVE PRESENTATIONS: Hoffman: I'll just give you an update on the appointment. The City Council interviewed three candidates on Monday night. They'll recommend that David Moes be appointed on Monday. He also is the alternate, he currently acts as the alternate to the Planning Commission so he's trying to decide exactly what. We'll let you know when the time comes. Lash: Is there a motion to adjourn? Roeser moved, Franks seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried. The meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Recreation Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 7