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PRC 2009 03 24 CHANHASSEN PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MARCH 24, 2009 Chairman Daniel called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeff Daniel, Tom Kelly, Glenn Stolar, Steve Scharfenberg, Scott Wendt, and Thor Smith MEMBERS ABSENT: Dan Campion STAFF PRESENT: Todd Hoffman, Park and Rec Director; Jerry Ruegemer, Recreation Superintendent; John Stutzman, Recreation Supervisor; Susan Bill, Senior Center Coordinator; Jodi Sarles, Recreation Center Manager; Dale Gregory, Park Superintendent; and Terry Jeffrey, Water Resources Coordinator APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Stolar moved, Wendt seconded to approve the agenda as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENTS: Hoffman: We can publicly announce our reappointment of Jeff Daniels to the commission for a 3 year term and then Elise Ryan for a 3 year term as Dan is retiring after a 3 year stint on the commission and Dan had a class tonight that he was trying to coordinate to get out of a college course but he could not so he offers his regrets and wishes all of you well. Daniel: Well obviously priorities change as an adult because I know when I was in college you always look for an excuse. Alright. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS: None. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Scharfenberg moved, Wendt secondedto approve the verbatim and summary minutes of the February 24, 2009 Park and Recreation Commission meeting as presented. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. REVIEW KERBER POND PARK TRAIL AND RAIN GARDEN LANDSCAPING PLAN. Jeffrey: Chairman Daniels, commissioners, thank you. I was just telling everybody here it was a year ago tomorrow that I was here with the public hearing. This will be much lighter and easier than that night. At that time we talked about the Laredo Road construction project was going on. We were looking for opportunities to do some water quality treatment with that project. The trail area and Kerber Pond fit well into that, with the help of Todd and this body, we were able to get something in there that I think is, while not complete is moving along as I had hoped and I think will be a really nice project when we’re finished. Just to revisit it. To the upper right hand Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 corner is Laredo Road. We had created 3, a series of 3 biofiltration swales along side of the trail. Took the trail and realigned it. North is actually to the left on this picture. The first one if you remember, we actually had to bounce it or make the water be about 2 ½ feet deep in order to get it to flow downhill. Each pond would be successively drier but ultimately they should all drain completely within 48 hours. We did put the splinter structure, there is a. That doesn’t work up there unfortunately. There is a parallel storm sewer line so the high flow events will bypass the system so we don’t end up with ponded areas alongside of this trail. Ultimately will discharge to this pond below. This was completed during the summer of last year. Actually finished up in November of last year… So this year we are back to talk about the landscaping plan. Just kind of give you an update of what we’re doing. Our anticipated schedule and when that park will be back to a user ready state. Looking at that same area, sans the pond below the hill area. The drive. Obviously the right. The picture below we’ll talk about in a little bit. That’s the first pond. Just give a close up view. So again since this first pond was deeper, and would hold water to a greater depth, we wanted to do something to discourage, first of all to kind of hide that view. And secondly to discourage, unfortunately at one point, discourage the use of the, for walking into it. So this first basically when we planned it almost exclusively with shrubs, tamarack and river birch. So instead of looking down into a pond, you look across the top of the trail. The landscaping then will be extended with perennials through, over to that retaining wall that was put in right here and the trees will be planted on top of that screening that we had talked with the neighbors before. We will leave a 3 foot clear zone. There’s some things shown here. Those are getting touched up in the final plans so there will be nothing within 3 feet of the trail on either side for maintenance purposes. As we move down the trail we eliminate a lot of the shrubs. We move more to traditional perennials and your no mow grasses, but I won’t say that. Your fescues. Your prairie grasses, your long stem blue grasses. And then in that we’ll have, you have some elm varieties. Some balsam fir. We’re looking at some red maple and sugar maple in there as well. We do not intend for these perennial features to stay in their same shape. We’re not putting boundaries around. We’re not trying to have it be a manicured. Our hope is to restore this park to what it was, which was more of a natural feature. More of a passive recreation park so we don’t want it to be too manicured. At the same time we don’t want it to be completed ragged. We are, along with this, so the initial bidder will have responsibility to see to the maintenance for the first 3 years through the warranty period and then I’m going to go out with a city wide maintenance bid to address Lake Ann, to address this area, as well as the Lotus Lake boat landing. There’s a feature there that actually needs to be re-banked down there. Re- done so long term maintenance will be taken care of in that way. We have also addressed, we th have been working with the neighbors, and those of you remember March 25 of last year. That was one of the concerns, was it’s our back yard. What’s happening in our back yard so we worked with those neighbors who have, these all down here have fences so we’re putting in balsam firs. This gentleman here, Mr. Rice was really instrumental in getting this through. He initially was vocally opposed to this and after he took the time to tour with some of the neighbors and look at what Maplewood had done and other cities had done and he actually became an advocate for it so he really has an affinity for red twigged dogwood so we’re going to blend some of those in. Mr. Hauntee down here had asked that we save his…maple shrub row. We’re also going to add some screening on either side of it for him so he has just a continuous barrier. So this is taken in March, looking at that area so here is Mona Kerber’s residence. That retaining wall. Originally, if you look here, this used to be the edge of trail and that trail was much higher. I don’t know if you remember looking at it in November-December, it really looked awkward. It 2 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 just wasn’t going to work. The trail was so much higher than the pond. The slope became steep and I was frankly a little concerned at the way that was turning out so we were able to push the trail down closer to lower that. Give enough room so that we can offer some screening with the Kerber property in here, but as you see, if were to just go with perennials in here, you’d be looking down at the whole time and I think it would look like just a big, look like a pond which isn’t what we’re after. The shrubs that we’re planting will be 6 to 8 feet tall. As much as 10 actually. 7 feet from the trail to the bottom of the pond so it should let off and then as we move back into it will go to a more tradition. So we will be reforesting this whole area through here and landscaping the pond. So now we’ve moved down below the hill. Here’s where the last plan left off is right here. A couple of things I want to talk about. First of all the plantings that we show here is not the full extent of the plantings. These are all the 2 inch balled and burlap trees that we’re going to be putting in. Originally we had a very detailed landscape plan within here. The cost of landscaping became exorbitant I would say. I started talking with Ryan Rogesby, the Eagle Scout candidate who happens to actually live on the north side of Kerber Pond who is looking for an Eagle Scout project. He will be working with us to actually plant whips. The little saplings. Probably 500 to 600 of them in the understory of this area once it’s done. The reason for the, what might seem like a large number is with these saplings we get a fairly significant amount of attrition so of the 500 we plant, we might expect 300 of it to survive into maturity. The other issues I want to talk about here, are right here at this curve. I don’t know how many of you have had a chance to walk it. The slopes here are the same or shallower than they were before. However there’s no more trees so it seems very severe. Talking with Todd and Paul Oehme, the city engineer, there’s concern about safety in this corner so a couple of things that are happening. This trail is realigning 3 feet further to the east. This is an 8 foot wide trail so roughly the center line of it. We’re going to try and take this radiance out so that we straighten this curve more so that rather than pointing down the hill you know into the pond, it’ll be pointing more in this direction. Secondly, there’ll be extensive shrub plantings all along this area right within here and finally we’re looking at putting in, where we have rest areas. Small outlook at the top of the hill that will be landscaped in limestone, and the limestone I forgot to mention on the first pond. There’s limestone slabs and boulders incorporated into that so it kind of ties the whole thing together. So those are the methods we’re looking at to address the safety of that, and it is our hope then that over, well and not even the hope. It will over time fill in with, as it’s reforested and it won’t be that severe, barren grade going down to the pond. So this is that overlook area we’re talking about. Now if you look back here they’re showing it coming off here. I just got off the phone with Todd Hallamet from Kimley-Horn at 6:00 and I’ve asked him to shove this down so it’s closer to this corner so it’s maybe shaped more in that area. So it actually gives more of a barrier as opposed to just a bigger sticking out so bear that in mind. We’re…extensive landscaping around this feature. The limestone being incorporated in some manner but it probably, except for here, come out and then work back in. Something of that rd nature. Like I said these are the 80% plans. They will have final plans to us on April 3 but we’ll talk about the schedule in just a moment. Here’s the old feel good landscape architect drawing. Standing on top of the hill looking over the pond. Hoffman: A couple of eagles. Jeffrey: Yeah, a couple of eagles up there… There’s probably a couple of Yeti in there. But I think it’s a fairly good representation of what they’re trying to do. However the original plan 3 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 was much larger. Almost a plaza. I really didn’t want it to be a spot that people congregated. I wanted it more be a point of interest. People might stop and rest and then move on. Not feel like let’s have a picnic and set up camp in this area. Daniel: Wouldn’t there be a whole wooden platform observation deck somewhere… Hoffman: Boy scout project I think wasn’t it? Daniel: That was there wasn’t it there? I’ve seen changes in that area there probably from the time it was farmed to where it’s at now but yeah, I can’t remember who did that. Steve White? Jim did. Didn’t Jim do one? He didn’t do that one? Must have put the steps or the bridge in. Somebody I know did a bridge. But yeah, I mean that rest area right there, there used to be an observation deck. To what, 15 years ago? If not longer. 20 years ago. Hoffman: And then the trees grew up and you observed the forest. Daniel: You observed the forest yeah. Jeffrey: And ultimately that’s what this will be as well but we’re hoping it will just be a place to sit and a point of interest along the trail. So this is that area again. Now we’re coming down the hill. This would be where the point line. Someone would come off and wrap back in here. You can see this tree here. That’s roughly where this trail will be moved over so this trail will be, come out. The corner will be cut shorter there so this whole thing will be shifted over a few feet. This would be standing in what would be the observation area for the time being. That was, this was last June just after, that’s August just after it was graded and seeded. Some other things for future consideration. If you’ve gotten down here and looked at the emergency overflow, it’s horrendous. It’s just hideous and I apologize for that. It was done as, like they do any out fall, they just threw the 12 inch limestone in there so my hope is next year or the following year to actually get in there and start incorporating some plantings in that to soften that look. The other thing I’d like to do is get emergent vegetation along the bench of this so it looks more like the shoreland of Kerber Pond as opposed to the pond down there, and then as I talked about earlier, the Eagle Scouts will be doing the planting within that understory area here. So just briefly the schedule and then if you have any questions I’d be happy to entertain them at this time. April rd 3…after talking to them earlier tonight it sounds like they’ll actually have it to me by this th Friday. April 6, we’ll actually go out for quote bids. I don’t anticipate this being over $100,000. Originally in our recommendation I thought it would be over $100,000 for the plan but we’re getting with the landscaping architect…and have it down to a manageable price quote. ththth So we do on the 20. May 11 we go to council. Award contracts. May 18, begin construction. Within that, and how the construction will be phased is, first we’re going to have to go in and we’re going to have clean out those infiltration basins again. Over the winter you know they sprayed it down. The only place Todd pointed out, the only place that the grass spray remains is on the fences around there and nothing’s on the fence so we’re going to have to remove some of it. We’re going to have to scrap that dirt out. Rake that soil again to get it to, promote infiltration. If you look at the first pond, it’s holding some water right now which partially is due to the frozen soil conditions but at the same time at this point it should have popped and we should have gotten that water out of there so we’ll address that. Then we’ll begin 4 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 the planting. We’ll work from the reforestation back towards Laredo Drive. That way the second weekend after, the first weekend after we begin we’ll get the Eagle Scout down there to th plant the whips and put in some erosion control on that hill. The 29 we’ll finish landscaping at the 3 day Memorial weekend. Hentges who did the road project, the Laredo project will then come in. It’s part of their original bid to replace that trail. They’ll realign the trail. Re-pave that trail and by the end of the first week in June we will have that substantially complete with the exception of general maintenance that will occur at that time. As I said the contractor who installs will also be responsible for the warranty maintenance period and it will go out for a bid for city wide maintenance. Unless Dale volunteers to do it which I don’t think he will. After, if this exceeds $100,000 for some reason, this schedule becomes kind of null and void. It really rd kind of puts us into a, it really pushes us back to the April 3 Planning Commission, plans th complete. May 11 we would go to council to approve. To authorize bids and go out for bids, and then the 30 day period we’d have a bid open the end of May. We’d be looking at, we’d be looking at end of June for construction which really isn’t ideal. So I’m going to do everything in my power to make sure that we can do this under that magic number and we can get this park completed so that by the time we get out of school it’s done. That’s all I have on this. If there’s any questions I’ll be happy to address them at this time. Daniel: Let’s go ahead. Thor. Smith: I don’t have anything. Looks real nice. Daniel: Glenn. Stolar: The stuff you have to do, is it the filtration this year? Jeffrey: Yes. Stolar: Is that going to be something that’s going to have to be done every year? Jeffrey: No. What had happened is, because of how late construction was completed, normally it would have been blanketed and it would have been stabilized but because of the frozen conditions, Hentges couldn’t or wouldn’t put the blanket down. And so therefore we’ve got some sedimentation and some, the snow pack itself compressing the soil in there so we had some, but once we have a plant cover in there we’ll have that stabilization so no. There will be periodic maintenance. Stolar: I think you told us that original time. Yeah. Jeffrey: Yeah. So if you go back, you know what we’ll do, while we show all this planting in this area, we are going to have to keep a clear zone here and a clear zone here so we can maintain that area. Stolar: Okay. Jeffrey: Tom. 5 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Kelly: The only question I have is, given how the trail is situated with all the plants and everything, have you thought about what the snow runoff and re-freeze will do with that trail? Will it be a pretty slick trail in the winter? Jeffrey: Actually, thank you. I actually anticipate it will be better than the previous conditions because before it sat lower, we had constant run of water over it. We’ve now actually elevated that trail 3 feet from where it was. I think we do have a few spots that weep from the west side that may be some issues. We did, when I went down at the end of last year we actually cut some areas. What would be the low spots to get it drain to that side, so we may look at elevating. Super elevating the trail in those parts where we actually put a 1 or 2 percent side slope to get it to carry across faster. But overall no, I don’t anticipate… Kelly: That’s all I have. Hoffman: Commissioner Kelly as a runner coming out of the second freeze thaw cycle this season, do you have some first hand experience with that ice? Kelly: I do know that someone that I’ve run with broke her hand on, yeah. So I know we run at our own risk. I just want to, I was just curious of that. Jeffrey: And there are some trails around here that obviously have serious ice issues. Kelly: Yeah. Hoffman: Yeah, this one should be better than before. Daniel: Scott, anything? Wendt: Been through there a few times and can’t wait to see it finished up. It’ll be great. Hoffman: Shoes muddy? Wendt: Last fall. Daniel: Actually the wetland is frozen thank God. Steve. Scharfenberg: So Terry is the $100,000, is that strictly just for plantings? Jeffrey: That’s for plantings. Mobilization. The rock work that’s going to be going on in there but yeah. It’s really for plantings. Scharfenberg: Okay. Daniel: Great, thank you Terry. Thank you very much. You know having an opportunity to get close and intimate with that particular project. I know at first it seemed a little hairy for those 6 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 living on the pond and the angles, or the, at least angles coming off some of the homes along Saratoga there. They were concerned at first and I think there’s still probably some reservation but I do know that once it’s kind of smoothed out, especially after this, this season and winter kind of, like I said, smooth everything out. It looks fantastic. It certainly is an upgrade from what was there before because a lot of that had turned into scrub brush and scrub trees and quite frankly, and I’m sure if you asked most, they’d love to have that stuff cleared up anyways so you can have, maintain that view of the pond. Everyone except for of course my parents but no, it looks great. The, I guess the only observation I had walking through there a couple weeks ago was just the depth of the first pond, and I know, and I guess coming from what we had talked about where, you know I think we were talking maybe 3 or 4 feet elevation change and seeing that very first pond as you mentioned about 6 or 7 feet and filled, but obviously that’s filled right now because it’s frozen so I mean I hope people understand. Is that something that’s going to be a concern moving forward? Have any of the residents brought up any concerns about that first pond filling up and freezing and then thawing and, because I know that was like the big reservation. Gee if my kid falls in. Jeffrey: Chairman Daniels, one individual did bring up a concern about that. That was Mona Kerber who lives right at the corner there and she, that was specifically because there were some kids I think had gone out and were playing on the ice and she was trying to chase them off. You know remember the, if we can grab a picture here. It’s a little tough to see but this right here, this is the, at the S. That’s 2 feet from the bottom so we’d still only have about a foot of water at the bottom here right now. To be honest, yeah. That’s why I’m really anxious to get in there and clean that out and I get to make sure that we get that infiltration because when I saw it holding water this long it did, it still does. It makes me want to get in there and make sure we correct that before it becomes an issue overall. I also think once, remember this whole area isn’t online yet either. We bulk headed this off so we’re getting things in there that, and it has nowhere to go right now either, other than into the drainstile and hold there, so I’m thinking those two things combined and then once we get the vegetation in there to cover it, we will be able to address that so I think long term no, it won’t be an issue but if I were to just go in there and plant it, yeah. I think we’d have a problem. Daniel: And then the only other comment is, I know, what’s the reason again for taking the curb out of the path going downhill? Down to the bottom. Jeffrey: If you look, right now the way the alignment is, it actually kind of directs you over, right over that steeper part. If we kind of take that curve out, it actually directs you down in it. As you got down over the hill, it’s just not as steep. It’s not as tall. It won’t bring it towards the pond. It will bring it towards. Daniel: I guess if you’re there you’ll get a better understanding I guess than. Jeffrey: Right. Daniel: Going off of memory. Jeffrey: Yeah. 7 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: So, and then also on the right hand side, obviously you’re cutting into the hill. Is that going to be a retaining wall that you plan to put in there or how are you going to address that? Jeffrey: Yeah, we’re either looking at whether we incorporate the limestone on that side as well but we need to keep a clear zone for the plows to go through there. We might have to just go with a 1 ½ to 1 just use geo textiles or something to really hold it in place until we can get some establishment there. Daniel: Okay. I think that’s about it. Otherwise I think the project looks great and I guess Dale for your crew, have you guys ever had problems with regards to plowing in the winter? Gregory: No. We haven’t had an issue with it. Daniel: Okay, so. And then that’s plowed, you guys just plow the east side all the way across the, I hate to call it the bridge now but all the way out to that neighborhood. Gregory: To that north neighborhood. Daniel: Yeah. Gregory: Right. Daniel: Okay. Alright, I think that’s it as far as commission. Anybody else? Great. Jeffrey: I’d like to thank all of you and Todd as well. Todd was very instrumental in getting this done. Dale as well so thank you. If I could I just want to take a brief moment to talk about something we’re doing over on West Central Lotus Lake Meadow Green Park. And this won’t take nearly as long. Hoffman: More like 3 to 5 minutes? Jeffrey: Okay, we’re looking at Kerber Boulevard along here. There’s Big Horn Road. This would be, it’s Carver Beach right, that comes down here. Carver Beach ends here. We had, we have had in the past surcharging issues in this storm sewer right in this area underneath Kerber. If you’ll notice like in spring large rain events we actually have standing water in this. What we have is we don’t have enough capacity in the storm sewer line to handle all the drainage area. I wish I had an overall map but we have, we have what amounts to one-fifth of the entire watershed that goes into Lotus Lake comes through this channel right here that outlets out of Lotus Lake, so it comes through here. So it was, when it was put in it was not put in from a long term… It was just under sized. And this inlet structure on this side of Kerber is directed at a right angle to the creek so the hydraulics through there are really poor. The water comes in and hits the side. It will eventually go through so putting a turn structure in here. That will actually bring it in line with the channel. Bring it through. We’re up sizing the pipe through here and then we’re going to use the existing storm sewer line throughout this area. In addition, to take the overland flow that goes into this area and to slow it down a rate of discharge with this 8 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 current. Well let me back up. This is the whole motivation for it was this creek. In 2005 we had back to back storm events. The same thing that’s motivated most of the projects we’re doing right now were related. This berm blew out on this pond. All of that came flowing through this creek. Severe scouring and under cutting of the side slopes through this area. Exposed a forcemain, storm sewer down there. So we want to address the rate and volume of water that’s going through that channel. That’s the purpose of this project. So we started with the storm sewer improvements that I talked about and then through this channel we’re actually going to put, there’s 4. This was the concept originally. We now have plans. We had the bid opening last month. We had the pre-construction meeting on Friday. We’ll probably begin construction as soon as road restrictions come off. We have had two neighborhood meetings. We’ve talked to people in this neighborhood. They’re aware of what’s going on. So there’ll be steps that will be put in going down here, and as I said it will hold the water. This right over here is Meadow Green Park. Right off the paper here. Just kind of… This area is now, it’s just a straight line ditch that goes through it so no water’s stored in this. It just comes in and comes out again. We’re going to excavate this out. Add some contours. Some different depth and actually restore this wetland within here. That’s phase I of the project just in brief detail. And stabilize this berm. Actually an engineer will stabilize this as opposed to what had happened is we just put back material that was there which tended to provide that predominantly organics structural integrity. We’re going to redo this outlet structure here. Really more of a maintenance than anything else and we’re going to remove this culvert which 9 out of 10 times you can’t find so we can’t maintain it. We’ll redo the whole outlet structure down here. Phase II, which could be 4-5 years from now. I want to wait til the total maximum daily load is done for Lotus Lake. Would be looking at upstream storage and then Phase II would be looking at actually stabilizing this channel. It’s really not worth stabilizing this channel until we address the volume issues through there. So I just wanted to quickly go over this and let you know what’s going on just in case it gets brought to one of your attention so you’re not left in the dark… Like I said we’ll begin work on this middle of May. Substantial completion then in July. Daniel: I suppose the only impact from a park and recreation standpoint is going to be the trail. Next to Big Horn and what’s, is that Carver Beach? Hoffman: Carver Beach Road. Jeffrey: We will access through this trail opening here to get to most of this area through there and then up on top of the berm off of Carver Beach Road down here to do a lot of the work. So we. Hoffman: That’s just an access drive. It’s not a trail access right now. Jeffrey: Why don’t you make it a trail? Daniel: I’ve always wondered what that was. Hoffman: It’s an access drive to get back into that property. Daniel: Okay. And what fills the Meadow Green wetland? I mean what, is that everything from 9 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Carver Beach then and coming down that hill? Because I know that berm is, I mean it’s a good 6-7 feet. Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah and it, again it’s higher than it was initially when it blew out but again the materials were just so poor that if we were to have it back to even close to what we had in 2005, there’s no way that it would maintain it’s integrity. So it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when and we just weren’t able to get to it before it happened. Daniel: Okay. How long do you anticipate the trail to the, I suppose disconnected or under construction? Jeffrey: Just during construction. One month. Five weeks disruption. Really it seems like a large area but the, most of the work will occur right here. There’s going to be some slight grading in here just to make grades work for the ditch checks that are going in but you know otherwise, it’s really fairly. Here, here and here will be the bulk of our work so. Yeah, 5 weeks top start to finish. Hoffman: Everybody remember the Labor Day, I think it was Saturday night storm that Terry’s referring to? Labor Day 2005. Daniel: You mean when they were canoeing in Curry Farm Park? Hoffman: 8 inches of rain over night and these kind of events were all over the city so it really you know, this starts to expose your weaknesses in storm water management. In other things and that one was really, here we are 4 years later. 5 years later still working on it. Jeffrey: And there’s no way you can address every event. It’s just not going to happen but if you know the event can occur when you can feasibly do it, you should. Just kind of frame of reference, this is an engineer’s estimate was $464,000. This bidding environment, which also bodes well for our other project is so favorable. $264,000 was the bid that was awarded so almost 50% less than what the engineer’s estimate was. Daniel: Any other commissioners have questions of Mr. Jeffrey on this? Okay. Thank you. Like I said the biggest impact obviously from our standpoint’s going to be the trail head. The trail through there but it looks great so it’ll be interesting to see what happens. I know that area could really, that trail is really, could use some improvement anyways. At the end of the road so great, thanks. Jeffrey: Thank you. Daniel: Thank you Terry. Then we can move onto modifications to the 2009-2013 park and trail acquisition and development capital improvement program. And Todd is this something I assume, I suppose there’s no motion. Let me take a step back, that we did do with regards to. Okay. Alright then. Then we can move ahead with the CIP for 2009-2013. 10 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: Well hang on a second. Do you want a motion from the commission in support at the council meeting? In support of the plan. Jeffrey: Yeah I guess if you are in support of the plan I would because, I would anticipate council may be looking at it getting a little sticker shock just because of the amount of money that’s going in for a bunch of plants but my motivation is to leave this park better than it came into it. That’s why I think the expense is justified for what’s there. Daniel: And taking a step back, Terry was that part of the initial bid or at least as far as, the official budget to have this, I guess call second phase because we’re entering a new fiscal year so. Jeffrey: Yeah, I did anticipate that there’d be a second budget. I did put it in my CIP. I didn’t necessarily anticipate, I was thinking it’d probably be a $50,000-$60,000 project but as we started looking at the amount of area and the, and you know we could go with smaller plants and fewer plants but I think ultimately that doesn’t meet our objective. We want something that is aesthetically pleasing right away. Daniel: Well especially given the previous trail and the trees that were there before. You’re talking about red maples and definitely in a few more years it will really start to… Hoffman: …refer to the memo and recommendation you can, someone can make a motion off of that. Daniel: Alright, great. Want to make a motion to I support approve capital improvements for, I suppose is that it Todd for capital improvements? Smith: I’d make a motion that we recommend the City Council approve the landscaping plans for Kerber Park and authorize the request for bids to perform the work. Scharfenberg: Second. Smith moved, Scharfenberg seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve the landscaping plans for Kerber Park and authorize the request for bids to perform the work. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Daniel: Thank you Thor. Jeffrey: Thank you again. I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate your effort and thoughtfulness on this as well. MODIFICATIONS TO THE 2009-2013 PARK AND TRAIL ACQUISITION AND DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. 11 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: Thank you Chair Daniels and members of the commission. Tonight I would like to, members of the commission to work through some modifications for our 2009 through 2013, our 5 year CIP. This is coming to you because we’ve seen some significant reductions in revenue in the park dedication fund. In fact since the last time we brought this to the commission’s attention we are further reducing the anticipated revenues in your fund years 2009 and 2010 from $400,000 to $200,000 per year and if you look back just a few short years in 2006, that’s one- tenth, less than one-tenth of the revenue generated back in 2006. If you’re on the graph, you look at revenues. They’ve been all over the map starting in 2001, $435,000. Up to $2.2 million. And now we think back down to around $200,000 and hopefully rebounding around the $400,000 range for a few years. Obviously we’ll know more as we move forward. And if you near the expense column you’ll see that it has these peaks and valleys. It peaked in 2008 and 2003 with some big expenditure years, and then had a significant valley to you know build the fund back up. And we had another significant peak scheduled in 2009 and 2010 but we don’t have a mirror image of revenues in those years and so that peak’s going to have to be squashed down a little bit, or we’re going to drive this fund into the negative, which according to our finance director is just not possible in his world so he is in support of the Park and Recreation Commission taking a look at your priorities. And that’s basically what this is. We, the fund is still at over $3 million dollars today. You generate obviously a much smaller amount of money at $200,000 per year so the aggressiveness of the capital improvement program’s going to have to be reduced. And in doing so, it’s fairly obvious that you want to invest your dollars where your highest priorities are first and then go from there and so that’s the job of the park board. The job of the Park and Recreation Commission is to set those priorities as they see, as you see it and then make a recommendation to the City Council. Staff has made some recommendations for reductions but those may or may not mirror the feelings of the commission and the reductions that we are recommending total $2.95 million and bring the fund back into a closer alignment for where our revenues are today. So I’ll allow Chair Daniels to go through the process. It’s one that can, you can talk about projects. You can talk about dollars. You can start with projects you want to eliminate. You can start with projects you want to keep. It’s really up to the commission on how you would like to organize that conversation. And then staff will go ahead and take and appropriate notes. Re-build the recommendation and take it to, forward to the City Council. Daniel: Alright thank you Todd. I think we’ll just take a minute here to see if any, unless anybody has any questions or any comments. Smith: I have a question real quick. On the items proposed to be eliminated you have tennis courts in 2011 for $125,000 and then down below we also have tennis courts in there. Hoffman: Yep. And if you’ll note, and it’s a good question. It’s confusing. Park dedication fund tennis courts. Those would be the first $125,000 in 2011, those would be new courts at Roundhouse Park. Smith: Oh, okay. I got it. 12 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: And then the capital replacement fund would be some repair dollars for $125,000 to repair tennis courts at the rec center and in other locations throughout the city so that would be a repair project. Smith: And I didn’t do the math. I assume the $2.95 is, because under the proposed motion it says $2.75. Hoffman: Then it’s a typo. Smith: Okay. That’s what I thought but I guess I could have done the math. Hoffman: We’ll do it. Kelly: I’m assuming the other thing in 2009 is fixed. Those things can be taken off the table because they’re already. Hoffman: In 2009 they are not. You can make a recommendation at any time. Kelly: Okay. Hoffman: Some of those are fixed because of development contracts. Is everyone looking at 2009. So we have $10,000 in picnic tables, trees. The Preserve trail and bridge, $250,000. That’s a fixed cost. Lyman Boulevard trail improvements, right now it’s at 670. It’s likely to creep up a little bit more so we’ve set that at $700,000. Lake Ann stairway project we have a significant erosion problem there. That project is underway. Playground refurbishment at South Lotus, that border is literally just fallen off and the pea gravel is spilling onto the lawn. And then the Chanhassen High School athletic field contribution, we’re bound by an agreement with the school district so those are all set. Stolar: And that one we got the agreement as far as the use of the fields right? Hoffman: Correct. And the artificial turf is going down this week. Scharfenberg: Todd on page 3 at the bottom, the Chanhassen Native Preserve Trail, final phase. Could you just clarify again what that is. Hoffman: Sure. Remember the trail that was built last summer through the Minne Max development. The Chanhassen Nature Preserve off of Galpin. And it cuts down around that building and then there’s one more piece that needs to come around the last building lot and again it’s by development contract. Once they build that building, they’re going to build this trail and we’re going to have to pay for it. So it’s the last phase of that trail connection. Smith: Is that where it T’s to the right then? Hoffman: Yep. 13 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Smith: Where it just kind of ends. Hoffman: Yep. Yeah, that’s what the sign says. Trail…, yeah that’s it right there. Yeah and as we go through these I’ll be glad to explain. We can pull out a map. We can look at any of these. Stolar: We gave some suggestions last meeting. Did you, are those incorporated in here? Hoffman: Same, same ones that are here, yeah. The proposed cuts? Stolar: Well like we asked about like the skate park ramp replacement. Moving that to see if we can move that to the capital replacement fund as opposed to putting it in park dedication. Still leaving it off the expenditures but still addressing it by splitting it off of 4 years. $25K per year start 2010. Hoffman: That’s a good recommendation. Stolar: That’s what we talked about last time. Was that not? Hoffman: No I, any of the conversation we had last time I’ve not incorporated. Stolar: Okay that’s why, okay. So that I would like to make that one suggestion. See if that would be amenable to the City Council. To consider the skate park ramps part of the capital replacement fund. So leaving it off but not eliminating that activity. And then the other thing we had talked about last time was the trails, and again we had the four in 2010. The Bluff Creek, Pioneer Boulevard, Highway 101 and Rice Marsh and I believe none of those related to development contracts correct? Hoffman: Correct. Stolar: So the question was whether we defer some of those to see if the economy changes in 2011 and all. Now we wanted to put them together for cost effectiveness thinking we could get a lower bid. I guess my question is. Gregory: You push them all out. Stolar: Do you push them all out or is it still advantageous to split them maybe and see, still get some benefits of tying them together but not as much as if you did all four. What’s the impact? I don’t know is there anything that you could tell us like if we split it, do we not save as much? Hoffman: Well yeah. Maybe the market has more than anything. Right now the one thing that has not come down is bituminous and most of it, building materials have come down so. More than splitting it, maybe where the market is for blacktop at that time. Or where labor is if the markets are picking up. The labor side of the blacktop is still coming down but the materials are not. Splitting it up, I don’t think that would be a problem. It’s not going to be, you know those projects are fairly tight. There’s going to be some cost efficiency but still they’re in a different location so you still have to pick up and move all of your equipment. 14 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Stolar: So I’ll leave it to…to suggest any particular, but it seems to me to spend $1.4 million in 2010 when we’re still facing the revenue, I’d rather push some of that out as we potentially see the increases. Daniel: I think Glenn that’s a good point. I mean there’s, do we want to stagnant the development of our trail system or do we want to stagger I guess over those next years so maybe prioritize a few of the trail systems that we think would get the most bang for the buck. Is that what you’re looking at Glenn? Smith: If you’re looking at a trail that’s really development, you know serving a development that’s probably not going to happen or one that completes a loop of some sort, again we have to figure out. I don’t know what, I don’t know the location of… Scharfenberg: Yeah, if you look at, I mean Tom and I live down in that part of the city so if you look at that section of the city. The Pioneer Boulevard gap trail. The Bluff Creek Drive. Are all areas that aren’t being developed right now. All those developments, Ryland, all of those developments have you know have gone away now and so that portion of the city isn’t being developed right now. I don’t know that there’s that much use you know in taking that money and building those trails when you don’t have the people necessarily living down there. Would I like to have a trail so that I could ride all the way down from Powers Boulevard and pick up down to the LRT trail? Sure, it would be nice but I don’t know that it’s worth the amount of money right now when that part of the city necessarily hasn’t developed all the way out that way. Kelly: That’s where I’m on the flip side because Bluff Creek is dangerous I believe because right now it’s the road to no, where the road is wide you have a trail and the trail ends right when the road narrows and it’s a very steep hill going down. It’s a very steep hill going up so you don’t, you don’t see the cars coming until they’re right on top of you. I can see pushing back Pioneer a year but Bluff Creek I believe is more dangerous. It would be used and it will actually give you another access point to the LRT. Stolar: Let me ask a question. Kelly: But I do understand what you’re saying about there’s no development there but I think that is, it’s a semi treacherous stretch of road for bikers and runners right now because of the hill and how narrow the road is. Stolar: And that’s my question. I think to both of your points, I think there’s one thing to, and to your’s Thor also. If it’s a safety issue we probably should address it. If it’s an enhancement we should push it out until such time as we see the development or we feel the economy allows so, you know if you look, there’s actually a fifth one. The pedestrian trail to the Arboretum. Todd you know hearing Tom’s comments, would you say that there are any particular of those five that are safety ones. Is the Bluff Creek one a safety one? That it would be advantageous for us not to push that one out. 15 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: You know when you start with all of them and Commissioner Scharfenberg’s got valid points. Commissioner Kelly’s got valid points. All trails are safety improvements. Bluff Creek, and then the Arboretum would be the first at the top of the list. The north half of 101 also. I don’t get up there as much to view what’s going on as far as pedestrian once you leave Pleasant View. Stolar: But you have alternatives there. You can go through the community around there and then catch the Minnetonka trail so it is, yeah I know the mayor has made comment to me that it is a concern of his. As you’re taking the 101 trail and you end at Pleasant View, like if you’re coming up north, you run into a little bit of an issue there because then you have to get onto a road. But I do think there are alternatives. I mean people can cut across at some other points and go up the Dell Road trail in Eden Prairie, so they do have alternatives so that one I’m not as worried about as it sounds like at Bluff Creek. And then I thought that the pedestrian trail at the Arboretum, that also was potentially a safety issue. Smith: Where is the Rice Marsh trail? Scharfenberg: That’s the one that goes around Rice Marsh, you know where, once you cross over from St. Hubert’s, it goes around the whole pond. So it’s, it goes around that whole Rice Marsh and will loop. It will be a complete loop all the way around the marsh. Hoffman: I’ll show it to you once we get warmed up here. Kelly: Right now it’s half. It goes, there’s a trail that goes around half of it. Hoffman: Can you see this park? Smith: Yeah. Hoffman: That’s it right here. Smith: Okay. I see. Hoffman: We have the north section and Eden Prairie has the north section done, and then the south side will go in on Chanhassen and Eden Prairie and it will be about a 4 mile loop all the way around. Smith: Now where does Eden Prairie stand on that? Hoffman: They’re coming our direction at the same time we’re going that way. The timing is not certain on that project. It’s going to take some easements or land acquisition through MnDot for these properties. So this is the. Smith: On their side or on our side? 16 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: On our side. So this is not shovel ready. This project, the Bluff Creek trail gap, this project will take some easement acquisition. You don’t want to ride this on your bike or you don’t want to ride this on your bike, or run this. This one it, once the trail ends it gets very narrow. If you’re in that lane of traffic, cars have to move around you now. They just, it’s a narrow road. It was narrowed intentionally when it was improved to try to slow traffic through that corridor so there pedestrian improvements there today. Pedestrian trail to the Arboretum, south side of Highway 5. And there’s a couple of things going on there. You have the Arboretum which has completely changed their point of view and has offered up to allow pedestrians or bicyclists into the Arboretum if we get them to their front door. And so not too many people do it today. There are some people that bike to work. There are some people that do bike to the Arboretum but it’s not a very pleasant experience today. So that would be a significant improvement. Pioneer Trail, gap trail. You know it is a, it’s a missing link but there is more room on that shoulder than. Stolar: Than Bluff Creek, yeah. Hoffman: Yeah, then some of these other locations. You can bike or run that in, as an adult I think and not feel as nervous as some of those other locations. The Highway 101, you can go through the neighborhood but that connection should be made eventually. Daniel: Hey Todd is there a path along Pioneer heading east from 101? Hoffman: Yes. Daniel: Okay, that there is because it’s been quite a while. Kelly: It ends at the LRT. It stops at the LRT. Daniel: Does it give you an access to down to the LRT? Kelly: It sure does, yeah. Daniel: It does not, okay. So I mean there is technically access. We just don’t have the southern access point from Bluff Creek to the LRT from, within Chanhassen, correct? Hoffman: Correct, yeah. We built this access to the LRT. And it goes down on grade and then how far in Eden Prairie does it pick up again on Pioneer? It’s a mile or. Kelly: Oh yeah, it picks up at. Scharfenberg: Lake Riley Road? Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. So it does pick up at Riley Road by Bearpath. 17 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: But theoretically we have, if you take the LRT, you do, you can create a loop around Riley, except for that dead section right by Bearpath. That’s about it. I think that’s the only concern, correct? Hoffman: You can make a loop around Riley, yeah. Daniel: Yeah, so I guess when we look at getting an access point down Bluff Creek Drive, I mean you’re only servicing a handful of you know, a smaller portion of population along Bluff Creek. If we still have access to the LRT via Pioneer then, I think that does cover us. Unless there’s anything I’m missing. Kelly: Well at the, that’s a very nice access at Bluff Creek. You actually have a little shelter there. It is a trail head at Bluff Creek as opposed to Pioneer where it just an underpass. Daniel: Yep. Hoffman: If you’re coming from Chaska east you want to go up here long before you make this movement. Daniel: Oh no, absolutely. I mean we do have an access plan I guess is what I’m trying to, within our trail system. Hoffman: And remember without the Highway 212 construction this gap wouldn’t be here. Highway 212 project built a major section of trail along Pioneer all the way into Chaska along Pioneer and built sections on Powers on both sides. Approximately 4 ½ miles of new trail construction that came along with the Highway 212 project. Daniel: Excellent. So are there any projects that if you, within the commission that you’re suggesting that we modify or move within this 2009 or 2010 CIP? Is there, which, do you think we’re at this point right now or do you want to study it further as far as which ones maybe we should be moving out? Or do you want to take some time to think about it? Tom? Kelly: I’m good. From my point of view Rice Marsh would be nice, Rice Marsh is a nice to have but I think that could be moved. Yeah, it’d be great to have a 4 mile loop around Rice Marsh but it’s, I don’t think it’s imperative. I think the Arboretum and Bluff Creek are more important with the trails than Rice Marsh. Eden Prairie doesn’t even plow their part of Marsh Creek. Of Rice Marsh Lake. So that’s one that I think we could push out and I agree with what Todd said too. It’d be nice to have Pioneer but there is a pretty wide shoulder there that you can, as an adult, it’s comfortable to run and bike on it and it’s only probably, it’s not more than half mile to Powers where you pick up the trail so that is a work around. My only complaint about Bluff Creek is there’s no work around. There is a work around for 101 north. Going through the neighborhoods but if you want to get, there is no work around Bluff Creek. I ran that on Saturday… Scharfenberg: So Steve you had a point about Bluff Creek. What do you think? 18 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Scharfenberg: Well I clearly understand the safety issue with that. Again if we’re picking and choosing it would be one that you know for a safety purpose I would rank higher. Again I think people would find a way to get around it. They’d either go back up, which I think people do already is that they just turn around at Bluff and they go back up that LRT trail again until they get to a point of access to get off of it. I don’t know Tom, Tom runs it and does it a lot more than I do. I don’t know how many people, you know I haven’t studied how many people are traveling that gap of bluff to get up to Pioneer Trail now. I’m assuming it’s more now that, as Todd pointed out, there’s that trail that goes from Powers all the way in west into Chaska now so I’m assuming that there’s probably more people coming up and using that as a loop, or will use it as a loop. I just don’t know how many people right now, if Tom sees more than you know a lot of people using that or not. I just don’t know. Daniel: And I guess part of it too is if Chaska were, if the trail did not abruptly end at 212 as it does, then we have to cut over along 212 to get back onto I think Engler and then back up 17. As far as that, if there were more access points I could see probably a more, even a wider use of Bluff Creek. I guess what, you know part of it is safety and I agree but also we have to look at the capacity. Or at least the amount of volume that the trail will be used, so I mean that’s one thought process I think we ought to take into consideration too. Arboretum I think is absolutely sound. I think we can all agree upon that. I think as far as keeping that in the CIP. Because again the safety issues and that as well as the access point into the Arboretum. You know there’s from my perspective a slight hesitation on the remaining 4 other trails being a priority for 2010 and I feel much more comfortable just keeping. Stolar: You mean 3? Daniel: Wait, 1, 2, 3. Yeah I apologize, 3. Stolar: So I mean along those lines, I think we should Rice Marsh Lake and Pioneer Boulevard trails out to 2012. Daniel: Well actually 4 I apologize Glenn. Actually 101. Stolar: Right. But I thought we said keep Bluff Creek and keep and pedestrian. Daniel: Oh I was even saying Bluff Creek as well. But again that’s my point of view so. Stolar: Well let’s start with those. I think we are agreeing with Rice Marsh Lake and Pioneer Boulevard, push those to 2012? Daniel: Yes. I think we agree on that. Wendt: I would think either one of them, 101. Stolar: To 2011? Smith: At least. 19 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Wendt: I would think that you’d want to go to 2012 or 13 maybe. Stolar: What year did it start? 2005? 2006 that it was on the first time? Daniel: Dan’s not even here to smile… Stolar: I mean 2011 or 2012, you know like I said, I think the City Council might have a different view on that with regard to safety. They have concerns about safety but I think it’s not, there are alternatives like we talked about that people can take to avoid that situation. For the most part there’s one scenario where they can’t but what do you guys think, 2011? 2012? Daniel: Well why don’t we look at this as a suggestion. Why don’t we, you know these are both Bluff Creek, if we move Pioneer and Rice Marsh out in 2012 then why don’t we consider keeping next year pedestrian trail to Arboretum in the CIP and then 2011 let’s make a commitment to 101 north and then Bluff Creek for 2011. That way we’ve staggered them and when we come up next year if things start to change, I mean we have another year for us to make a decision and pull any one of these projects back in if there’s, if the market. Smith: So you’re saying the only one we’re going to keep, you’re or your opinion would be to only keep the Arboretum trail in 2010? Move the rest out? Daniel: I would say stagger them. Smith: Right, yeah. Daniel: So then we would have 2 more projects in 2011, because that’s really about all. That’s really all we have for visibility from a trail standpoint, unless there’s, and again that’s my suggestion. Stolar: We’d have 3 projects in 2011 right because we have the 41 underpass also. And that one we want to do because we have the matching grant in that year. Hoffman: Yeah that 125 turns into 1.25 million. Stolar: Yeah, good investment. So that’s why I was thinking should we keep Bluff Creek in 2010 and then we have two in 2010, two in 2011 and two in 2012. Daniel: Okay, that’s fair. Smith: I would like to keep Bluff Creek in 2010. Keep the pedestrian trail to Arboretum in 2010 and move Pioneer Boulevard, Rice Marsh and 101 out. Daniel: Okay. Smith: That’s what I would recommend. 20 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: Alright so when would we decide 20, or 101? 2011? Stolar: I’d like to see it there. Daniel: Okay. Stolar: Just and got 2, 2, 2. Daniel: Bluff Creek we’ll keep in 2010. Pedestrian trail we’ll keep in 2010. Okay. Alright. Stolar: And Rice and Pioneer in 2012. Daniel: Yeah, and Rice and Pioneer, I think that will work. Stolar: And that spreads it a little bit nicer. Keeps our balances I think, if I did my math correctly, we don’t go below a million then in any particular year. Which I think is one of the things we’ve talked about for a long time. We’d like to try and not get below a million until we completely run out. Daniel: Blow it all on a big party. Todd what do, I mean what are your opinions about. Hoffman: That makes the, makes that look a lot nicer rather than doing these peaks and valleys. The projects are still easy to manage. You know if we bid, it’s going to be about a half a million dollars in trail projects each year. 2011 we will not be bidding the Highway 41 pedestrian trail underpass grant but we could include that in with the 101 in with that and so. Just include it into the contract of the Highway 41 trail. And then in 2012 you would be up to another project, and again it would be dependent on that time we’ll know more about Rice Marsh Lake. Have we acquired those properties? Do we need to get an easement? Where is Eden Prairie at? Remember there’s a bridge just waiting for that trail on the Eden Prairie side to come down through Bearpath. Kelly: Do you get calls from residents in that, I know that sign’s been up for probably 10 years at least that says that the trail’s coming. Do you get calls from residents asking about when the trail’s going to be completed or not really? Hoffman: We don’t get a lot of calls but on occasion people talk about it yeah. If they know where that sign is at. So those all work fine. We didn’t change the dollar amount. We’re still at that 3.665 million with the grand total down at the bottom. And then I would recommend you go back and start to pay attention to the recommended cuts. Do some things like Commissioner Stolar recommended. The things that we feel strongly about, the skate park is one of those. Do you want to move some of those things out? You want to take a look at 209 again in that we recommended removing the Lake Ann Park ballfield safety fencing at $100,000. And then review those. I think you have your. 21 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Stolar: Well I do have a question on that and I don’t know how we have to delineate these things but I was thinking, you know I know we’re still at the end of the day we’re still at 1.354 million. We haven’t made any change to that. I know we run the risk of not achieving the revenue dollars we’ve been talking about. Risks of construction costs going up as the years go on. Still to me the safety netting issue always seems to come about and I was just wondering if we wanted to just put place holder dollars in 09, in 2010 and 2011 and 2012 of $40,000 each for safety features in ballfields. Then we can determine at that point in time what are the most appropriate ones to do. So it does add a 120 to that. Smith: Can you get, but can you get the netting and do it in phases like that? Stolar: Well two of them are $40,000 netting things. What are the priorities that we’ve had for safety? Would it be Lake Ann? Hoffman: Wherever the worst injuries going to happen in the future I can’t predict but Bandimere is bad and. Stolar: That’s what I thought so I was thinking $40,000 for Bandimere in 2010 at least just, if we could put $40,000 in a couple of years so we have two right? Hoffman: You know one note of caution on those. Remember these are, we’ve been playing at Lake Ann for 30 years and you know so these are improvements. These are desires that we’d like to improve the safety there, or the perceived safety. Balls are flying out of ballfields all the time so. And we’ve studied these things for a number of years and there is no perfect answer and so as much money as you pour at this, you’re never going to eliminate all of the challenges at these ballfields. You just can’t put everybody underneath the screen as hard as you try. We considered that at Bandimere but it just didn’t seem realistic to screen that entire area. If you’re all familiar with Red Scott Field, that’s basically what they did is they just screen the entire spectator area in. But that’s not only an initial maintenance cost but an ongoing capital cost so. Stolar: Well what is the netting there? Hoffman: Which one? Stolar: The Bandimere and Rec Center. Hoffman: Basically some additional netting at the large baseball field to try to reduce the number of baseballs that are coming out of that. Stolar: It’s extending it up right? Hoffman: Extending up or out. We don’t again, don’t… Stolar: Don’t know how. 22 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: Yeah. Every time we talk to somebody that’s in, you know supplies these things or, they’re all custom designed. Scharfenberg: Well I would again raise the issue with respect to the items being eliminated. The concession stand. You know understand that Todd was here and took off but I know they have expressed an interest, CAA has again in partnering with the park and rec commission to do something with that. I encouraged them to talk to other associations that use that and try to build some support for that so I know that they’re interested in that. They’ve continued to talk about that and how to potentially fund that. I think there’s some disagreements with them as to how to do that but I know that they’re very interested and committed still to doing something with that concession stand at Lake Ann. Daniel: Well I went with you guys on Lake Ann. I think the best way there and to be able to solve that in the short term is absolutely through partnerships and independent funding outside of the capital, I mean right now. There’s some matching dollars that we could possibly take a look at. Set a goal. Maybe something, as a matter of fact that might be a little more palatable for the City Council to evaluate but you know we have, I think we need a more concrete plan for funding. That they will need. I think if they come back to the commission as well as the council then I think that’s something we can then build off of. Right now to expect us to take care of the full cost of that, even a larger portion of it might be a little more difficult to swallow at this point. You’ve had a lot of conversations I know with Todd about this so it’s just still what creative ways. I mean if you look what Minnetonka has done with Veteran’s Field and raising $3 million dollars, you know we’re looking at one-sixth of that and just you know for the concession stands. That’s all we’re really looking to do so I mean what can the associations, whether it be football with CAFA or little league and softball, what can they do to partner together and then possibly come up with some sort of fundraising mechanism. Hoffman: Who talked to the gentleman that came in with the portable rest room, or the portable concession stand? Was that you? Stopped into our office. There was a gentleman from town that is providing a portable concession stand. That’s another option we talked about so during tournaments you pull out a portable concession stand during tournaments. A trailer. That’s a temporary basis during tournaments. Those type of things. As you continue to deliberate, remember I promised to go through and take a look at potential revenues and they’re anywhere from 20 to approximately $45 million dollars in the next 25 years in park dedication. And there’s a wide swing in there because of it’s uncertain how much land dedication we will take in lieu of cash dedication. But what that tells us at least is there will be future day for some of these improvements to come on line and be constructed, whether they be trails or park buildings or playgrounds or tennis courts and that’s based on undeveloped land in all of our different zonings. Residential, single family residential, multi and then medium and high density. Industrial commercial and so you’re wrapping all of those areas based on the vacant land numbers listed in our comp plan and those are the numbers you start to see. So that’s significant revenue into the future. I was pleased to see those numbers as we went through those calculations. Kate Aanenson, Bob Generous because I didn’t want to see like a $4 million dollar number so 20 to 45 was much better. So there is hope into the future so as you continue talking, some of these things are going to come back but they are going to have to just be bumped off the list today and you’re going to have to decide what those are. 23 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Stolar: Another quick question. Disc golf contribution. That was based upon work with the Carver County. Have they had any discussions about it at all? Hoffman: They’re not currently interested. In fact we had a boy scout that was, would have installed it and I proposed to that boy scout if he installs it and he gets the county’s approval that we would go ahead and seek to finance the equipment and the county was not interested. Stolar: From what reason? Just from a park plan perspective? Hoffman: Park master planning perspective and the fact that they haven’t resolved how they feel it is working out at their other park yet out at Baylor. Stolar: Okay, so that’s one that if it does come, it’s a small amount but I guess I would say I’m okay with it being off the list because it’s very much based upon an agreement with Carver County. Hoffman: Yeah, if the agreement comes. Stolar: …then we should bring it back but if it’s not in their plan right now it doesn’t make sense. Hoffman: Jeff, do you want to just click down each item as we go? Daniel: Actually I just identified 2-3 motions that I think we need to address. One being obviously the one that’s proposed by the park and rec, by your department Todd as far as, with regards to elimination of the programs here. We also have talked about the movement of dates from the, the different projects that we have listed in 2010. Moving those out to 2011 and 12. And then also I think we have a motion with regards to the skateboard park ramp placement to be moved into the capital replacement fund. Does that sound about right then? Did I miss anything? Hoffman: Have we discussed all of the items in the proposed elimination category? Daniel: Let’s see there’s 12 projects. Stolar: There’s one other in the elimination I wanted to just ask about. The playground accessibility improvements. Is that a nice to have? Is that foreseeing that we’re going to be behind? Hoffman: It’s nice to have. We’re, as a community and I think all communities across the country, we can always do better in accessibility. And so you can always do better. So it’s a, it’s not just a nice to have. It’s you know by the Americans with Disabilities Act, we’re mandated to have those improvements but we’re not typically challenged on those improvements but, and so we’ll be talking about this. We’re going to focus on it this fall in one of your commission meetings. There’s some very good, if you’re the parent or you’re the person who needs that 24 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 improvement, it’s important to you. And if it’s not, it’s not out there but then again when you run an entire system, either a city or a county or state system, all these needs aren’t being met so. Stolar: What about like in the South Lotus Lake when we fixed that border. Are we going to make that better accessibility as a part of that? Hoffman: Absolutely. Absolutely. Stolar: Because that’s what we’ve been doing is as we’ve modified playgrounds we’ve done it and that’s why I was wondering if this was just, this would be further enhancements or if it’d be pretty much our catching up on the accessibility as we’ve been modernizing playgrounds. Hoffman: Yeah, probably just wouldn’t be playgrounds. It would be access points. Curb ramps. A whole bunch of different type of things. Stolar: Okay. Daniel: Going back to your question Todd, you had about things that were missing on those 3 motions. Was there anything else that we were missing? I think that pretty much covers it. I mean to a certain extent we’re talking about the 12 projects. To postpone the 12 projects and we’re looking to postpone 4 other projects. I assume that we either could include under that motion or come up with a separate motion, just so we get a little more detail. But I know there definitely has to be one with regards to the skateboard park plan replacement because that’s a great idea. I know you had talked about that before. I think the last meeting and this needs to be brought up and I think recommended to the council so. Stolar: Do you want that motion? Daniel: That’s what we’ll move with the motion. Stolar: I’d like to move that we accept the staff recommendation for the items proposed to be eliminated or postponed out of the 5 year plan with the following, and the recommended timings in their submission with the following adjustments. That we ask that we, the park and rec staff investigate into the skate park ramp replacement from the park dedication fund to the capital replacement fund, spreading it out over a period of years. And that we move the Rice Marsh Lake and Pioneer Boulevard gap trail projects to 2012. We move the 101 north project. The 101 north/Pleasant View Road trail connections to 2011. Is that it? Daniel: That should be it. Stolar: You want to check off your list there. Wendt: I’ll second that. Stolar moved, Wendt seconded that the Park and Recreation Commission recommends that the City Council approve modification to the 2009-2013 CIP to eliminate or postpone 25 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 twelve projects totaling $2,750,000 in order to preserve park dedication funds for improvements and/or land acquisition that are deemed essential or time sensitive, with the following amendments: 1. That staff investigate skate park ramp replacement from the park dedication fund to the capital replacement fund thereby spreading it out over a period of years. 2. Moving the Rice Marsh Lake and Pioneer Boulevard gap trail projects to 2012. 3. Moving the Highway 101 North/Pleasant View Road trail connections to 2011. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. Daniel: I think we got that deliberated and now I do believe Todd we can move onto the recreation programs, starting with ChanJam and John Stutzman’s here to tell us about that. RECREATION PROGRAM REPORTS: CHANJAM ’09. Stutzman: Thank you very much Chair Daniels and members of the commission. ChanJam is coming up this year and I’m real excited about it this year to build on the success we had last year. Last year we had over 300 people there with 8 bands. This year at this point I have 9 bands that have applied with 3 more that I have had communication with in the last day that are planning to apply tomorrow is the deadline for that so. I’m anticipating getting that so I th anticipate a full bill of 10 bands. It will be held Friday, April 17 from 6:30 to 10:00 p.m. out at Chan Rec Center. One new development that has occurred this week is I have officially secured Dave Ryan from the KDWB morning show will be the emcee of the event. Daniel: Nice. Stutzman: He agreed to do that on Monday. He’s agreed that we can advertise that he will be the emcee as well as plug it some on his show as well so that should be a really nice addition. I began looking for an emcee just to kind of fill some of the down time inbetween bands last year. It’s not going to completely take away the dead space but it will at least engage the crowd a little bit more. It will help fill some of that. It will allow thanks to be given out to the volunteers that help out as well as plug the food vendors that do come out so that should be very fun. I do anticipate all 4 schools being represented this year. Last year we only had 3 schools represented but at this point I have had communications. There’s a couple joint bands between a couple schools but at least in some way, shape or form all 4 schools that serve the community of Chanhassen should be represented in this concert as well so. Posters have been out in the schools. The schools have been very nice to work with again and are looking forward to this event. Tickets will be $5.00 available at the door again that night. If you bring a perishable food item to donate to the CAFT Agency and the food shelf you’ll receive $1.00 off as well so. If any commission members are interested or available in helping out with volunteering, I’d welcome 26 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 any help or just come out and check it out because I think it’s a great event and should be a lot of fun this year. Smith: How many people do you, I mean I know it’s hard to anticipate but how many did you have last year? Stutzman: We had just over 300 last year. I guess my goal last year was about 300. If we can improve upon that I guess I haven’t set an exact goal on what I’m hoping to do. I guess covering costs which we did last year is the primary goal and from there the more people we can get involved in these programs the better. So I mean with the publicity and the increase, I mean I guess 500 would be my hope but it might be a little bit of a stretch so it will kind of depend. Stolar: What’s the max that you can have there? Stutzman: Oh what was the max we decided Jerry last year? About 1,000. I think it was about 1,000 was the fire code for the rec center with the space that we have. Daniel: How is parking? Stutzman: Parking we didn’t have any issues last year so I wouldn’t anticipate this year. I do encourage the bands to bring 1 car versus 4 or 5 or 6 or however many. Or maybe 2 vehicles if they need to but I strongly, when I meet with the bands encourage them saying hey, don’t everybody drive. Bring your vehicles together. Come together and. Scharfenberg: John are you postering only the high schools? Stutzman: Postering only the high schools but we did have it in the Connection. The prior one as well as the one coming out so we will have that. That was actually some of the feedback that I got from the last event was, and I didn’t even think about it is the parents didn’t know about it. I spent so much time trying to focus on the students getting the high school students to come out, and I talked to several parents throughout the event last year saying hey, we didn’t even know about it so getting it in both Connections. I’m really trying to work with the paper to get a feature article on it. The couple things I’m trying to discuss with them is whether it’s interviewing last year’s winner or now that we do have Dave Ryan secured, you know just getting that promotion out there. It is on our web site. It’s been on the web site for oh, boy about a month now. And every time there’s an update we get that up on the web site. As soon as I got done meeting with Dave Ryan, we got that on the web site. So we are looking for other ways to reach out. I’m also planning to do an E-blast to the community about 2 weeks prior to the event to really get the parents or the adults involved in this event as well as the high school students. Scharfenberg: You may want to email the music departments at both Chan Middle School West and East because I know they have other bands, as well as Pioneer Ridge. Just let them know so that they can let some of their students know about that so. Stutzman: Okay. 27 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: And you know, while you have the email going John I guess too my suggestion would be as we get closer, we’re getting pretty close here, maybe in the next couple weeks, send an email out to the commission as well as, if you could to this commission. Just asking, as far as detail what type of expectations you may have as far as support or help from us as well. So I think that would give us an opportunity to reply and as we get closer to our schedule it’ll be a little bit easier for I think any of us to plan and get a better understanding of what you need from us. Stutzman: The primary duties that we need is basically ticket sales but I can definitely send out an email. In working with Lieutenant Jim Olson and the Carver County, he’s going to provide us with security again this year. He’s actually enabled it so we won’t actually be paying for it. It’s just going to be part of the general contract so Jim has been very helpful on that so we’ll have 2 dedicated officers up there for security as well as the CSO for those purposes. All the vendors are served. We contract with vendors to come and serve food so we don’t do that. The primary duties would just be the ticket sales and just kind of helping with the storing and moving around of the perishable food items so, it’s a relatively low work event other than the preparation for it but yeah, I will definitely include everything. All the details in that for the commission then before we go forward. Daniel: Great. Well this is going to be exciting. Any questions for John on this? Great then thank you. It was a success last year and I’m trying to clear my schedule so I can get out there and catch it Friday so. Stutzman: I’m pretty excited for this year’s event. It should be really cool to see what a year has done so. Daniel: Oh yeah. Excellent. 2008/09 ICE SKATING RINK EVALUATION. Stutzman: Yeah, it’s hard to believe going backwards from ChanJam back to the ice but they are pretty much gone at this point but we did have another good rink season this year. It was slightly shorter than last year due to the weather. When we kind of started and then down the stretch due to some just kind of…considerations. Make sure we’re using them appropriately as well so we totaled, we were open for 74 days from open to close and the official last date they were open st was March 1. Although Roundhouse we did close down a little bit earlier just to accommodate since that one park wasn’t as used as much that we closed that one down a week ahead of time. And then reduced the hours of the other locations to accommodate that as well. But we were 16 days shorter than last year. Had actually closed a few more times this year due to snow, cold weather, warm weather as well but overall we had over 8,500 participants while the attendants were there to take attendance and they were basically out there every hour kind of giving a quick head count of who all was there and this does include all the teams that used the rinks as well so. Given that we were shorter, we were down not a significant amount from last year so it’s very encouraging. Only other thing I’d like to touch on is the warming house trailers. We’ve rented them for North Lotus Park as well as City Center Park. We did switch vendors again to the entry 28 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 level, the ground level units instead of the ones with steps. While they are a much more preferable product, the company is less desirable to work with. They’re a little more difficult to work with than some of the other companies so I will continue to work with the other staff and everybody to kind of see where we can go with this to at least explore other options that we have and try to make this a good product and a good company to work with at this point but that will continue to be evaluated and monitored as we go forward so it won’t just be, we continue to go back to the same company year in and year out despite anything that might or might not work out so. We also have the seasonal wages as well as other expenses that we incurred totaling about $54,000 for the ice rinks for the 74 days they were open, and if you guys have any further questions on the details I’d be happy to answer any. Daniel: Go ahead. Kelly: Are the attendants necessary? Stutzman: Yes and no. I think they are very much appreciated and from a safety standpoint I think it does provide parents with a comfort as well as first aid situations where they can be there. However several communities are starting to explore other options of leasing out the warming houses. Seeking volunteer groups. Certainly we could look to cut back which parks we do and do not have attendants at, which some cities have done. I do think they are a very good role to play but it is a possibility to explore where and how much we have them. Kelly: Yeah I’m guessing the 12-8 pretty much is paying for the attendants. Stutzman: Correct. Correct. Actually that 12-8 is pretty much the attendants. The other costs are noted below as well. Daniel: John, how’s the $54,000 compare to last year’s totals? Stutzman: I think that was about the same, if I’m not mistaken Dale. I know Dale’s costs were pretty similar. Our warming houses, we went down a little bit just due to the shorten season. And then warming house attendants were pretty comparable. Again down a little bit due to the extended season and the amount of turnover we had we paid a little bit less of a rate too then we did last year with the returning staff that we had so it was down a little bit but not more than a couple thousand dollars. Daniel: Okay. Any other questions for John? Okay, thank you. 2009 EASTER EGG CANDY HUNT PREVIEW. Stutzman: Our other special event that we have coming up, which is the third in our annual th series of the marquee events that we do is the Easter Egg hunt. That will be held April 11 out at the Chan Rec Center. We do have musical entertainment again this year. I did contract with a new group just to keep it fresh. These guys did perform last year for us in the Concert in the Park and were a great group to work with. Very fun. Very engaging so I think this is a good, good location for them as well. Hopefully we’ll be outside this year without the foot of snow on 29 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 the ground, but other than that I do anticipate this should be a good, a good event. In reference to any cost savings, as we did with Halloween and continue to do with Easter, the candy will kind of be monitored versus you know just keep giving it out. Keep giving it out. We will monitor that so we can return any that we don’t use to save costs and reduce the costs of that so. th But that will be the morning of Saturday the 11. Scharfenberg: Sorry John, what time is that? Stutzman: It begins at 9:00 with the entertainment. We don’t announce the actual time of the candy hunt just to encourage people to show up and partake in the whole event versus I just want the candy. So the candy hunt does proceed directly after the entertainment begins so once again if any commissioners are available to volunteer help, I’d be happy to send out an email on this, is greatly appreciated. Smith: Glenn gets to wear a bunny suit. Stolar: No I was a cow. That’s what it was. Hoffman: I think Elise should wear the bunny suit. Daniel: Okay. Well excellent John and as again we’re starting to come to this time of the season. Stutzman: Yep, and if it’s okay with the commission I might just lump those two together just to give you a better idea, kind of compact rather than a couple different emails. Daniel: No, that’d be perfect and that’s exactly what we’re looking for so thanks John. Alright, move down to Recreation Center. Jodi. RECREATION CENTER REPORT. Sarles: Thank you. We have had a very, I think a really busy winter since we’ve last seen each other here. Boy, rentals have been going well right now. I think we’ve had everything from sports groups in there to banquets. I have a memorial service coming up so it’s been a busy time over at the rec center. Everyone is very thankful for the new equipment that came in January. It’s getting well used and well loved and so that’s great and we really appreciate that investment that’s been made at the rec center. One of the big announcements we have, and it’s included in the packet, is that the aerobics program at the rec center is going to be discontinued in it’s current nd state as a punch card system on May 22. There’s a letter from Ms. Stewart-Murphy in here kind of concerned about it. We have secured one of our instructors to continue working with us as a registration based program so that we can continue to have an aerobics presence at the rec center, but in it’s current state as a punch card drop in system it wasn’t fiscally responsible anymore after a number of years. If you have any questions on that there is a pretty good breakdown of what it does cost to run the program versus participation right now. Stolar: And we addressed her issue about the extra punches that she has out there? 30 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Sarles: Yes. Yes we have so. The Dance for Fun. The holiday showcase was a success this year. We had about, oh I would say over 400 people come to that showcase that we did. Gave the kids a chance to get in front of the parents. Kind of dance for the first time. Was a little rough on the 3 year olds. A lot of them dance backwards but it went well so. The enhanced fitness program is going well over there. The Tae Kwon Do is once again, I think if we included the newspaper article that was written a couple weeks ago where they had, we had another tournament here and I think we had about 65 kids or adults and kids participate so it’s a very successful program. Very well liked. And then on display we’ve had a number of, had Holy Family is on display now as our artwork in the rec center. It’ll be there for, I think til about the end of this month. We’ve had Southwest Christian High School. We’re still working on Minnetonka High School but we’ve got little inroads and I think this fall we should see some of that school’s work out there. And now our local artist for the summer so it’s been a good program and people do love to see the talented students that we have out here in the area so it’s been great. And then the other thing we’ve been really busy on birthday party packages so that’s been a really successful kind of twist that we brought out this year and just book another one today so. Other than that if anybody has any questions. Scharfenberg: Jodi in the aerobics, is just that the participation is just down? Sarles: Yeah, the participation is down and it’s, you know we have a couple classes that we can see up to 12-15 people in but we also have some classes that all of a sudden no one will show up for a while so the consistency isn’t there and it’s hard to maintain people coming back too when they’re getting, getting you know a lot of people are a little concerned about being one of the few people in a class so. Hoffman: No fun to be at a small party. Sarles: No, yeah. Some people like the individualized attention but a lot of the new comers don’t necessarily like to see that. And we’re going to be looking at putting in maybe like a kettle bells, contracted service or something like that to kind of supplement the aerobics portion. Hoffman: Want to talk about how that will free up some space for additional dance as well. Sarles: Yeah, and really aerobics has been running a class at the rec center in, at the rec center from, in some prime time in the evening hours and so that, the space is in quite a demand for dance right now and so if we can, we looked at our schedule and adjusted some of the classes that maybe were getting pushed a little late for the younger kids and have been able to slide them up a little bit and so that will free up our schedule in the fall. And then we’ll maintain the morning aerobics, or early morning aerobics and then weekends and it all will balance together on the schedule so it’s, it works out well. It’s unfortunate that we do lose that program though. Daniel: Don’t you think with over time, especially dance as popular as… Sarles: Yeah, it is, yeah it’s popular. 31 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: That you’ll fill that instantly, at least I feel. Are there any questions for Jodi as far as the recreation center or the rec center? It’s excellent, thank you Jodi. We certainly appreciate it and like the number of programs that you guys have currently running through have been excellent so well received. Sarles: Thank you. SENIOR CENTER REPORT. Bill: I don’t have a lot to report tonight. 2009 started off to be a good year, although with the colder than usual weather we did see some cancellations with some of our day trips and some activities, but the day to day cards and activities really have strong, a fair amount of people. We have seen an increase in activity, or in participation where the South Shore Senior Center in Excelsior, there are 5 communities that feed into that. They’re experiencing pretty severe financial problems and reduced programming so our bingo and bridge and participation in some of our other day trips have seen an increase due to people coming from there to our activities. College of the Third Age program is once again for the third year sponsored by Klein Bank. They have 6 programs a year with retired college professors from the Twin Cities area that come in and do presentations and those have been really well received. The other program I’d like to talk about is I started a program this year called Passports to the World. Had an idea last fall with the high price of gas, I have a monthly lunch program. With the high price of gas I thought I would try to utilize local people to come and share their travel experiences, and so we have presentations and I try to have food and entertainment featured around those different cultures. In January we had our Chinese New Year’s party. I have a woman who had been to the Hong Kong Chinese New Years 3 or 4 different times. We had food to that culture. Last Wednesday, or Thursday rather we had a trip to the Antarctic with some people that had been to the Antarctic and had food and presentations centered around that. We’re going to visit continents and then some other countries. We’re going to go to Africa. Have got an African drumming group coming in. We’re going to have a midsummer night Swedish party with Swedish fiddling music. So we’re going to just have a whole lot of fun at the senior center this year. But the first two programs in January and February were really, really well received and people have been excited and I’ve really been fortunate to find people in the local communities to come and present. Other than that 2009 will prove to be an interesting year. Our day trips, we do one day trip a month and we split those with Chaska. Or we share a bus with Chaska and all of our day trips and Joan from Chaska and myself are really trying to manage trips that are affordable. Any time you rent a coach bus for anywhere for 4 to 6 hours you’re talking anywhere from $400 to $700 so we’re really trying to be conscientious and try to balance a lower cost program in one month with a higher cost program in the next month, being aware that people funds are somewhat limited. So that’s pretty much how 2009 has been going. Uneventful but good and we’re just looking forward to the remainder of the year. Daniel: Excellent. I have one question. What is the local cuisine of Antarctica? Bill: Well that was a challenging. I couldn’t find any whale blubber or fish so actually we, I just had bread bowls with beef stew and then we had layered ice cream dessert that was different flavors and we had penguin decorations but no, that was not an easy one. 32 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: No pickled herring? Bill: Huh? Daniel: No pickled herring? Bill: No, no but that’s going to come in, for the Swedish. Yep. And I do have a man making lefse for the, even though that’s more Norwegian, for the one in June so. But no, couldn’t find anything on that. Stolar: Are you doing a Cinco de Mayo thing at all in May? Bill: I did that 2 years ago. A Cinco de Mayo one. What my thought was, was to focus on continents this year and then fill in some other countries for the different months, so Cinco de Mayo was 2 years ago and I don’t like to repeat programs more than every couple years. We have a lady from India who lives in Victoria who was on the Food Network cooking challenge so she’s going to come in and prepare some Indian cuisine. Plus I’m trying to focus some around holidays specific to the various. Stolar: Because their bid holiday’s in November. Bill: In November, exactly. Exactly. And then the African Adventure in July, Africa’s such a big continent, you can’t specify one holiday but I did experience, I went up to an African restaurant by the University called Tum Tum’s and I was treated to their lunch buffet so they’re going to cater a meal for that so I think people will really enjoy it. Stolar: I was just thinking if you end up going a Spanish or Mexican holiday again, you might want to partner with one of the emergent programs here to maybe bring the kids out for that celebration. Bill: Great idea. Stolar: Because we had, my daughter’s in emergent in Minnetonka and last year in Cinco de Mayo they, the teacher had all the traditional outfits. She had patterns and places you could buy them and so all the kids were dressed up in their traditional outfits and it was a lot of fun. Bill: Great, good. Thank you. Scharfenberg: It’d be nice too maybe in conjunction with the Music in the Park series if one of the things in the summer, maybe you could feature a group, and so you could have that thing and then have it go right to the park with the music potentially too so. Bill: That’s a good idea. Good idea. One thing we are doing with Music in the Park, I usually have a dinner event before one of the concerts in the park. I met with the Senior Commission, they traditionally have an open house in the fall to meet the commissioners. The past year or two 33 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 that hasn’t drawn a lot, very much attendance so a suggestion was made, and they agreed upon it, we’re going to have an ice cream social at the senior center before a concert with the park with the Senior Commissioners so they will be there with the ice cream social. Curt Robinson, one of the commissioners did secure $100 donation from the Lion’s for the ice cream and then they will mingle among the crowd with their name tags on to identify themselves as Senior Commissioners. Thank you. Daniel: Thank you Sue. PARK & TRAIL MAINTENANCE REPORT. Gregory: Well John’s pretty much covered the skating rink report and that so the only thing I would like to add to that is, although we didn’t do an official survey of the Rice Marsh and the Chanhassen Hills this year and that, we had, we noticed there was very little use of either one of those rinks. The guys, we went out and cleaned them at the beginning of the year and that. Every day we did daily maintenance on them and there wasn’t much activity going on. We actually cut it back later in the year to just Monday, Wednesday and Friday’s we’d go down there and we still noticed very little and that but, so just for FYI for you and that. They weren’t being used much at all this year. Lake Susan, our oxygen aerator we had to put in with the early th snows this year and that. The oxygen started dropping quite a bit. February 10 and that we got to the point where we felt we had to put it in. Everything went good with the oxygen through the rest of the year and that. As of yesterday we shut it off. Oxygen was good. Fish are good. We didn’t have any fish kill that we’re going to notice this year at all. Actually tomorrow morning and that the guys, we’ve got everything ready, we’ll be pulling everything out of Lake Susan and that. The lake is opening up pretty well down there and that so it’s got plenty of oxygen coming into it. Wood duck houses this year, actually we took a pretty dramatic jump. We went up to 50% this year. Last year we were at 29%. That was the lowest that we’ve ever been last year in 15 years that we’ve been keeping the records. And I, we do some pretty good jumping up and down, if you look through the percentages through the year and that. I’ve been kind of watching it. There is no real answer why one year is much better than the other year and that. I mean it’s not like it’s a bad year one year and you know the weather is real bad one year or the other and that. It’s just, there is no real explanation of why they jump like the way they do. But anyway this year and that we had a real good turnout at 50% in our boxes. The Dutch Elm disease, as I told you earlier, we had about 150 trees marked to take down this spring. We have completed that about a little over a week ago getting all the Dutch Elm down. We actually kept count this year. We good 197 trees and removed and chipped them up. Now we are currently heading towards our trails. We’ve got 70 miles of trail and we’re going to try to get through those and take care of any trees that may, or branches or anything that may fall on a trail and that so. The guys are pretty much and that is nothing but trees so far since skating rinks have shut down but that’s pretty much all I’ve got unless you’ve got questions. Stolar: I’m just wondering if the two neighborhood rinks were not included, what percentage of the cost is that of your team’s time. Gregory: Of the, how much would it cost… 34 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Stolar: Of the neighborhood, yeah. Gregory: It’s really hard to tell and that I mean because when we’re flooding, they’re in the rotation. I mean we hit them, we don’t hit them as often as we hit the rinks up here, or any place we’ve got hockey rinks. We try to hit them more often. Rice Marsh and Chan Hills, we get ice quick because we put them on ballfields and it doesn’t take a lot of ice. I mean they’re ready to go. It’s not like putting them on grass. We do less maintenance and everything but how much of that percentage I really couldn’t tell you. It’s hard to tell. Hoffman: If you remember in the past the number we’ve been using is about $5,000 so when we talked to the neighborhood about you know is your value, how much do you value your rink. It’s about a $5,000 investment for the community. Somewhere in that neighborhood. Stolar: Thanks. Daniel: Also Dale, did you guys hit the trees along Kerber? Gregory: Which ones? Daniel: On the south side of Kerber Pond. The Dutch Elm. The dead trees. Have those been cut down as well? There’s a number of dead trees out there. Gregory: I’d have to take a look at that but they should have been cut down. Daniel: Okay. Alright. That’s about all I have. Gregory: I’ll take a look. I know they got a bunch along on the west side of the Kerber Pond there. But I’ll take a look and make sure, if they were on our list and that, and they were and that, they should have been cut down. Daniel: Okay. Kelly: Want to say again great job on getting the snow off the trails this year. Fantastic. Daniel: Oh yeah. Gregory: We’ve had a lot of compliments. We run into a lot of people on the trails and that and it’s, we’ve had a lot of compliments. People stop us plowing and they really enjoy it. They like it. Hoffman: If you ever want a ride along. I woke up one morning and called Dale and he picked me up and it’s a pretty interesting experience when you cannot see anything but white in front of you and you have to plow that trail because it’s hard to find. Daniel: There’s no markers are there. 35 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Kelly: You do a great job of not digging up grass too. I mean you pretty much are hitting that trail every time. Stolar: There’s occasions. Daniel: Thank you Dale and certainly again as Tom’s absolutely right. The work you guys do in the winter here, the highest ranks on the trails. Your group has done a fantastic job. I mean the trails are open sometimes before the roads so thank you very much and sure look forward to the work you guys are going to do this summer. So thank you. Gregory: Thank you. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT. Daniel: Todd it looks like we’ve got a closed agenda item for the rest of this calendar year. Hoffman: As we move forward and we, we’re in a slower development time. That means we’re in a more of a planning phase and so I think it’s appropriate that we start to lay a calendar forward. In April we’re going to bring you a focus on park and trail maintenance. Go a little bit more in depth in that. We’re going to introduce our new member Elise Ryan and also update you on the final momentum regarding the Vet’s monument dedication. There will be an invitation to all commissions, council, legion members to come out on a work day, probably a Friday to install the pavers and so if you want to get your hands dirty at the veteran’s monument you’ll have an opportunity to do that. You’ll receive an invitation. In May we’re going to do some project tours out around the community. Taking a look at projects that are under going, or ongoing and then we’ll get right back into CIP planning. June is the proposed bike ride between our commissions and we’ll seek some help from our park commission, since you’re the experts that people look at to either plan a trail route. Kelly: I’ll plan a route. Hoffman: So either it will be from Lake Ann or Lake Susan and we’ll gather up as commissioners and families and then those who want to go out, and I’m thinking about a 45 minute route so. As the bikers leave and go out on their bike ride, the others can socialize. Start up the picnic, the barbeque and then the bikers will return for the event and discussion. Stolar: Are you thinking of starting that like at the new shelter? Hoffman: Either the new shelter or Lake Susan. One of the two. Either north or south of 5. We’ll probably go either over under, under the underpass at one point so it really doesn’t matter. And then you’ll have the opportunity as a commission to review a draft copy of our first ever annual report. A 2008 Park and Recreation Annual Report. And then following that up with your approval process, your adjustments, your changes. The commission, led by Chair Daniels will have an opportunity to present that to the City Council in September and so an annual report presentation to the City Council. In July a joint meeting with the neighborhood park and rec commissions. That’s just a concept that’s been talked about. Chair Stolar, or Commissioner 36 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Stolar’s brought it up. Should we meet with Eden Prairie, Carver County parks and Chaska parks commission. Meet with some other commissions in a social setting to talk about what they’re doing. August, focus on recreation and programs and special events and our final CIP. September, focus on the rec center. And then their presentation of the annual report. That will be at a council meeting. October we’re going to take a look at some American with Disabilities Act compliance materials and then discuss a neighborhood meeting to discuss our 2009 and 10 th ice skating rink program. And then focus on the senior center on November 24. And then all throughout the year your quarterly reports will come in June, September and December from all the different lead… th Smith: For May, the 25. I believe that’s a Monday. Hoffman: What’s the Wednesday? th Smith: 27. th Hoffman: Okay. Then it’s the 27. th Smith: Wouldn’t it be the 26 on Tuesday. Stolar: Move it one day for Memorial Day. Smith: Oh, oh. Yeah, yeah. Hoffman: The council goes to Tuesday. We go to Wednesday. Smith: I didn’t equate to what. Daniel: Also I guess are we actually going to do a dedication in April for the Veteran’s monument? I thought the official dedication was going to be Memorial Day. Isn’t it? Hoffman: No, it’s just an update. Daniel: Oh, just an update. Hoffman: Yeah. The dedication is on Memorial Day at 5:00 p.m. Daniel: Oh okay. I just wanted to make sure it’s clear. Hoffman: Yep. And then your joint meeting with the City Council has been scheduled and that th is not listed here. You should write it down and take it home with you. Is April 27 at 6:00 p.m. ththth Wednesday’s the 27. Yeah, so May’s the 27. And then April’s also the 27. Right? Fourth thth Tuesday in April is April 27. Yeah. So it’s Monday, April 27 at 6:00 and you’ll be meeting in the Fountain Conference Room with the City Council. If you want to set any discussion topics tonight, you might want to take a few minutes under commission presentations to talk about what you would like to address with the City Council. 37 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: Well I think first and foremost we should talk about where we’re at with the CIP. I mean that goes without saying, and some of the changes that we’ve made and some of the reasons behind our thoughts on keeping for example Bluff Creek as well as Arboretum for 2010. I think they understand as well as, they understand that obviously we’re obligated for 2009. There’s not much leeway we have there. I think getting their feedback as well as any questions they may have for us with regards to CIP over the next 5 years will be probably be priority number one. I think number two, one of the areas that we should probably get some feedback on would be recreation. On the recreation side. Whether the programs they may have heard from the community that might be interested with regards to the community center or other recreation events that might be coming out of that. As I had mentioned I think the last time we had a meeting, I think that’s one area where we could certainly make, start to look and evaluate other activities over the years. I realize John you have a schedule that we’ve been going off of that schedule. I think the last addition that we’ve had, I think from a community wide last activities Jodi you guys at the rec center, but I believe it was ChanJam. And maybe you know what other activities could we take a look at as we start to curtail back the CIP and some of the expansion of our trail systems and parks, what can we do on the recreation side. You know because those seem to be very well received and I think an opportunity for the community to gather so I mean I think those, maybe some of the things we could certainly talk with them about. Kelly: Will we be able to share a success story? Is the council aware of the success of the dog park? Financials behind it and how many annual passes are purchased now. I mean I think that could be the best $25,000 or $35,000 we ever spent and it would be nice to, I think there were some people that were hesitant about it. It’d be nice to say you know hey, for this little investment we really hit something special. Hoffman: Great. Kelly: I don’t know if there’s any. Hoffman: Yep. Stolar: A couple of them were out there at the dedication. Bethany and then Tom were there so they saw. But I think that’s a good idea. I also think, just I would like to see to your point Tom, a couple years ago it was mentioned to me by a former rec center employee that she didn’t think there was a lot of programming being done for the you know the 12 to 16 year old group other than the skate park, and so maybe we could have some statistics about how some of the programs John you’ve done have now addressed what was a gap I think in programming for that age group. And you know if you could just give some statistics on that. There’s been several different things. You know the Karaoke Night. ChanJam. A couple other things. I can’t remember. Scharfenberg: Third Lair. I mean association with that with the skate park. Stolar: Yeah, and I think that type of programming, as well as any others. 38 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Kelly: The birthday parties too. Stolar: Birthday parties, yeah. Some of the changes at the rec center that have, you know for the work that Tom did before you Jodi and the work you’ve done in strategizing where we’re going to go with the rec center and then of course the senior center. I think it’d be good to just have some, maybe like a preview almost of the annual report. Hoffman: Great. I’ll lay out a one page talking point diagram and we’ll present it and bring it with the group. You’ll have a half hour, 30 minutes. Daniel: Oh great. Stolar: So we’ll just cover the good points in a half hour, 30 minutes. Scharfenberg: Todd with the October, talking about the skating rink. Was your intention to talk to the Lake Susan Hills people and the Rice Marsh. Is that kind of what you had in mind? Hoffman: Yes. Bring in those neighborhoods. And also bringing in the neighborhood in Roundhouse Park area. There’s been kind of both sides. There’s been comments that you know the rink is not being used very regularly. There are a lot of rinks on the lake in that area and there’s a rink down on the lake, or a couple of them have lights and warming houses and they’re more modernized than the rink at Roundhouse, and so the kids all go to the neighborhood rinks and the public, this gentleman’s, it was in a council meeting, this gentleman’s point is you know why are you investing your money. They’re all over down at the neighborhood rinks. Daniel: Alright. So we have some points Todd I think we can work from with regards to the th 27 so. Hoffman: That date was just set today so I appreciate that. Daniel: Okay, great. Are there any changes or any motion Todd that we need to make with regards to this? Hoffman: No motions. We’ll continue to include it as a packet item so you can track and you can modify as you see fit. Daniel: Okay. And is there anything under the administrative section in the packet here that you’d like to point out or cover quickly? Hoffman: The Seminary Fen stewardship plan is a draft or a working document so those who are interested, take a look and if you want to email comments directly back, email them or send them to my attention and I’ll get them down to the DNR. There’s also an item about the Hennepin County Regional Railroad Authority trail in here. Eden Prairie plows their section of trail. We do not and the gentleman was upset that we weren’t plowing and so when I described our policy, he understood but you know it’s something that as a commission you might want to consider in the future. Do you want to plow that section of trail or not. 39 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: Tom, you’re the foremost authority there on this. Kelly: I say yes. I think it would be great. Especially if we had the, especially if we do get the path. Hoffman: The Bluff Creek. Kelly: The Bluff Creek path to that trail head. I don’t see any, that’s about, I mean Eden Prairie plows it up to Pioneer and stops. Hoffman: That’s where they hit, yep. Kelly: And I would think that it’d be great to. Scharfenberg: We’ll buy you a shovel. Hoffman: And this particular resident was a little confused because one of the Eden Prairie plow drivers must have wanted, really wanted to see the valley that day so he plowed all the way out to 101 and so then it was confusing the residents well it was plowed once. Kelly: Because it’s not used for snow, in the past it was used for snowmobiling but. Hoffman: Correct, for a lot of years, yep. Stolar: Up until a few years ago. Kelly: And it’s not tracked for cross country skiing so right now it’s just. Hoffman: No. It’s on your own. Bring your boots and tough it out. Daniel: Is that part of the reason why we don’t do it now is just because the transition when we’ve put into ordinance that you can’t snowmobile within the city limits of Chanhassen anymore so. Up until that point it was our assumption that that was what it was used for so that’s why we haven’t? Hoffman: Well it was really just a test to see how people responded to it because you don’t want to go ahead and spend additional money until you think you have a reason to do that and so it’s been up and running and this is, you know there’s probably one or two comments a year that we receive about why you’re doing what you’re doing so. Daniel: Well I think maybe we should have that as a, it will be for next, this upcoming season. Get some input Dale from your group maybe next fall when we get together and we can have that discussion then. Hoffman: It’s a big chunk of trail. 40 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: It’s a good mile long. Kelly: It’s a mile long but the access is there for the trucks, right? You can get in through Pioneer and get out at Bluff Creek. Hoffman: Yeah. Gregory: We actually plow that trail going down to the LRT. Kelly: Oh, Eden Prairie doesn’t? You plow that section? Gregory: We plow down the hill down to the LRT and then we come out, what’s that other addition on the other side there? They have an access too. Hoffman: Over by Lake Riley. Gregory: Right. We plow that as well, so we do go down onto the LRT. For us it would be easier. Then we could just go down onto it and come off the other end. We even do the parking lot too of the LRT. Bluff Creek. Hoffman: The one challenge will be at 101. That’s a tough intersection. You’ve got to dive down and then go back up. Kelly: Yeah. Daniel: Okay. Well I think we should probably have that discussion then next fall. Alright. I think that is it. Is there anything else? Stolar: That’s a good question Todd. Did we ever settle the lifeguard contract situation or is that still? Ruegemer: Yeah, that was approved at the council meeting 2 weeks ago? Two weeks ago so yeah, the contracts are in the process of being, signatures, getting the stuff right now so we’re all set to go. Daniel: So the recommendations. Ruegemer: With Option, was it Option D? Option D with the modification of the hours. 11:00 to 7:00. Stolar: Did they hold steady on the rates? Ruegemer: Yeah, I think there was a slight increase, was it 1%. 41 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Hoffman: Yeah, Jerry negotiated down to 0% and they were up slightly so it’s like a minimal amount. Ruegemer: Yeah, it was like $250. Hoffman: So thank you for that. Daniel: We saved money I assume compared to last year. That was our goal correct? Ruegemer: Yeah, we are definitely saving money. We’re starting a week later than we did last year but yes, we’re definitely down. Reduced the cost of the contract. Daniel: Okay. Well if there’s anything else that needs to be addressed, I do believe. Where’s my notes? COMMISSION MEMBER COMMITTEE REPORTS. None. COMMISSION MEMBER PRESENTATIONS: None. ADMINISTRATIVE PACKET: Scharfenberg: We still have the Rotary. Daniel: Oh, yes. I should acknowledge Steve that your, that Barbara has been nominated, correct? So congratulations to her. And when a decision on that Todd be made? Hoffman: You need to vote tonight. Daniel: Okay. Hoffman: We can adjourn and then you can vote. Was there any commission presentations? Anybody have anything of interest? And with all our staff here I’d just like to again say thank you to those folks for coming and as you know in any organization, they’re the ones that really get the work done and so we try to use a lot of carrot, not a lot of stick around here so they respond to that very favorably and I appreciate their work on a daily basis. And then as we move into summer, your job typically gets a lot more fun as commissioners because we don’t always have to sit in this room so we look forward to an enjoyable summer and getting out and you know the council spends a lot of time talking about budget and those type of things but, and people always ask you as a city employee and we’re very well positioned as a community. This community is actually strong, healthy. We’re well positioned. The council has been financially, fiscally responsible and so our government aid, any government aid that we get, what small amount we received did not go into an operating budget. It goes into perhaps a special capital project so you know there’s a lot of doom and gloom and we think as a park department our parks are just going to be filled with more people this year because they won’t be traveling out of town quite as much and they’ll be looking for some activities within town, within our park system so we’re excited about this summer and look forward to working with the commission. 42 Park and Recreation Commission - March 24, 2009 Daniel: Great. As well we look forward to working with the staff here as well Todd so. Excellent. Thank you very much. Motion to adjourn then we vote afterwards correct? Okay. Smith moved, Kelly seconded to adjourn the meeting. All voted in favor and the motion carried unanimously with a vote of 6 to 0. The Park and Recreation Commission meeting was adjourned. Submitted by Todd Hoffman Park and Rec Director Prepared by Nann Opheim 43